The Rich Roll Podcast - Plant-Based Bassist Tanya O'Callaghan On How Changing Your Plate Can Change The World

Episode Date: April 25, 2024

This week, I am joined by Tanya O’Callaghan, a musician, speaker, and activist, to discuss her unconventional journey from Ireland to a globally touring rock musician dedicated to advocacy. She talks about her roots volunteering at an animal shelter, her unexpected rise through LA’s music scene after a chance encounter with Maynard Keenan of Tool, and her commitment to a plant-based lifestyle even while on tour playing alongside legendary acts like Whitesnake, Puscifer, Iron Maiden’s Bruce Dickinson, and Dee Snider. Tanya discusses touring, the evolving food landscape in Ireland, and her deeply personal projects—a touring documentary promoting plant-based diets, and an upcoming film highlighting how plant-based nutrition can support veteran health and well-being. She also emphasizes staying true to your passions, engaging in respectful dialogue, and using storytelling to drive positive change. Enjoy! Show notes + MORE Watch on YouTube Newsletter Sign-Up Today’s Sponsors: Seed: Use code RICHROLL25 for 25% OFF your first order 👉seed.com/RichRoll  On: 10% OFF your first order of high-performance shoes and apparel w/ code RICHROLL10👉on.com/richroll  Go Brewing: Take 15% OFF my favorite NA brews with code Rich Roll 👉gobrewing.com  Whoop: Get 10% OFF your order through April 29th, 2024 👉join.whoop.com/roll  Squarespace: Save 10% OFF a new website w/ offer code RichRoll 👉Squarespace.com/RichRoll Roka: Unlock 20% OFF cutting-edge eyewear & apparel built for top performance w/ code RICHROLL 👉ROKA.com/RICHROLL

So when I'm on stage, I feel safe, and I'm very, very present. I can only be here, locked in with my drummer. You're looking at however many thousands of people, loads of stuff on a daily basis they debate and fight about, but for that 90 minutes or two hours or three hours, everybody's just in it for music. My guest today is my friend, the singular Tanya O'Callaghan. Tanya O'Callaghan on the bass guitar!

A heavy metal bass rocking Irish lass who has toured the world sharing the studio and the stage with icons like Maynard James Keenan, Whitesnake, Dee Snider of Twisted Sister, and most recently Iron Maiden's Bruce Dickinson. Tanya is also an ardent activist who uses her platform to champion animal rights, environmental sustainability, and human welfare. Tanya is my friend. She's a total badass. I absolutely adore her, and I promise you, you're in for a treat with this one. So without further ado, let's do the thing. Are you ready to rock?

I think so. It's very early to rock now. I know. It's a little early. You probably don't wake up until like noon. I wish. You don't really live the rock and roll lifestyle. I'm so far from rock and roll. It's unbelievable. I've got to be 4.45 this morning to watch the sunrise and come here. How does that work when you're touring and playing and up late and on planes and buses and all that kind of stuff?

Yeah, that is a little frustrating that I'm actually not more quote-unquote rock and roll because I am up super early and I don't, on show nights, you know, you're getting off stage. It depends. It could be 11, it could be 1 a.m. and then you've got hours of adrenaline to come down from yeah you can't just go to sleep no it takes a while to like come down from the high of playing so and then you know you're going to bed it could be 2 or 3 a.m and then you've got

lobby call at 6 and you're just in this constant right state of gotta get to the next city but it's weird when you're on tour because you just get into that flow and you take what you can get when it comes to sleep. So hence why it's important to stay healthy. Are you somebody who can just fall asleep whenever, wherever?

Absolutely not. Oh, no. No, I wish. Sleep has always been a battle for me, actually. It's quite an ongoing struggle that I'm trying to figure out. So when you're touring

and you're up super late and you have all that adrenaline and you don't get to bed until three or four in the morning, do you still wake up early on autopilot? Yeah. I don't think I've really ever slept past like eight in my whole life. Wow. That's got to wear you out.

Yeah. You hit a wall. But then I try really hard when I'm off the road to be a little bit better trying to get to bed a bit earlier. So even if I get to bed at like 11 or something, I'm like, oh yeah, I got like five or six hours tonight. That's like a luxury. And do you have like a specific rider so you can get healthy food backstage and all of that? I would love to see your rider.

The most non-rock and roll thing ever probably. It is the furthest thing from rock and roll. I was just laughing. What's on it? I have blackberries and blueberries and mixed nuts. And I have a yoga mat. And I have sparkling water and glass bottles because I don't want any plastic backstage. And then with hot food, it's because you're traveling so many different territories and you're not quite sure what you're going to get.

The consistent things like rice and broccoli and maybe beans and some mixed veg. So that's pretty much as rock and roll as I get. That's pretty funny. It must be confusing for the venue, like stage managers, when they're like, okay, like this is what we need to go. Where's the whiskey? She's Irish. How does that work with the bands?

Do you have a positive, healthy impact on the musicians that that you tour with or are you kind of at odds with a different type of lifestyle or is that changing it feels like rocking you know sort of especially with these older bands and these guys like they have to take you they can't go on the road and do all this kind of stuff at their age unless they're taking care of themselves yeah yeah no for sure like and I've been really lucky that most of the bands I've been in have embraced it so it's kind of like you get this annoying health sidekick in the band as well as a bass player that's, you know, trying to bring all the plant-based food in.

But it's for the most part completely embraced. But Whitesnake, it's really funny because David got super into it. So there's just oat milk everywhere now. And he's all about it. That's like really fucking all about it that's like really fucking with my like mental image of like heavy metal and like what that's all about yeah i mean how old is he now though he's in his 70s early 70s yeah it's a tough industry the

travel is really tough the performing every night so you have to i think a lot of guys especially guys that have been around a while like that you realize at a certain point you can't keep going the way we used to go in the 80s and 90s. And then when people eat a bit better and start to feel better on the road, they just continue doing it. But also for me, food is such a big passion for me and travel. The first thing I have is a list of which cities am I going to, which restaurants I'm going to see.

I want to go see the local vegan restaurants or go to the steakhouse and order a vegan meal I want to bring the band and show them all this like my my love of exploring cities and food and they really embrace that so it's been cool and Bruce is super healthy anyway so it's not a million miles off we eat very similar anyway so the backstage rider is the same he has a couple of animal products in there but for the most part it's the same so they've been yeah and Dee's uh whole family are vegan Dee Snyder's whole family really yeah except for Dee oh my god was his his family meaning like his his partner and children yeah his kids and his wife she's mostly like veggie vegan anyway.

And yeah, so it was super easy to, you know, just be another vegan in his. Yeah, we're talking about Dee Snider from Twisted Sister. Like that just is, you know. Yeah, but Dee's like, someone's gotta eat meat in this family. Maybe not. Like if you're around him enough, you know,

I would imagine your influence probably wears off on some of these guys. Yeah, doing yoga before rock and roll shows is not exactly the quintessential idea of. That's so funny. Yeah. You mentioned Bruce, you mean, you're talking about Bruce Dickinson,

who is of course Iron Maiden fame. That's why you're in town right now. You're about to go on tour with Bruce. It's like a solo show for him, right? It's not, Iron Maiden fame. That's why you're in town right now. You're about to go on tour with Bruce. It's like a solo show for him, right? It's not an Iron Maiden thing. And for people that don't know, like Bruce Dickinson might be the most interesting man in the world.

Like tell me a little bit about this guy. Yeah, Bruce is fascinating. He's a total polymath. Like he really is a fascinating person. He's an airline pilot like you know he flew maiden on the plane he's you know that famous it was a 747 right so he's a commercial pilot on the side and he's flying the plane yeah flight 666 i mean it's hard enough to travel and go and play a show i can't even imagine having to fly your band he's also like a champion fencer

he's you know an avid reader an entrepreneur he's a fascinating person and obviously a legendary singer and just he's just a great guy he's a great guy to work with and we did a tour last year doing the music of deep purple with the 82 piece symphony orchestra right which is where we met and got along like house and fire he's just good people and then now he's decided to go and do his first solo tour in I think like 18 or 19 years because he's obviously been busy doing Maiden and Life happening between all that so it I think it was interesting for him to see what the feedback would be when he brought out a new album and the Maiden fans it's like you know the Church of Maiden they're so supportive so

the entire tour is almost sold out which is really cool to see for him because it's scary for any artist to put your own work out, but I can't even imagine when you're from such a big band. The fan base for Iron Maiden is locked in. Didn't he also have like an aerospace company, like a fleet of planes that he was managing? Yeah, he does. He has all these businesses. Yeah, he's got a lot of-

He's like an entrepreneur. Big time, big time big time yeah you guys got a chat uh god bruce murder me if i say this wrong um i don't know if i think i think he's just early 60s i guess timeless he's aged yeah he's one of those it's actually quite hard to guess i don't know but he's like he's so childlike it's great um him and his wife leanna is amazing as well and they're just they've got that very youthful you know still happy to travel he just loves playing yeah which is really nice to see because a lot of artists kind of get burnt out and they get a bit sick of it all but bruce wants to be on the road i mean he's he's we're shoving this tour in between maiden tours so he's not flying

the plane no does he still fly i think he can privately but something changes with license like he's to renew the license i'm not sure how it works exactly but he's not flying us unfortunately i'm sure he's happy about that though been trying to get him on the podcast he's tough to he's tough to schedule and pin down he's a busy man yeah okay at some point definitely well let's take it back you've lived such an incredible life an an interesting life, a dynamic life. And it's a really cool story. So let's go back to the beginning as this young kid growing up in Ireland.

Yeah. Paint the picture, Tanya. Small town Ireland. Yeah, I am from that very kind of quintessential rolling green fields, small town, very normal, simple, working class, family, childhood. And I guess I was a little bit of a rebel in ways from when I was young and it was sort of, it always felt hard for me to fit into that.

So from when I was a really young child, I was sort of fighting this system of you're supposed to follow this set of rules. What was that about? What were you rebelling against? Was it within the home or just naturally you had that disposition? A little bit of both.

I think I just, I had this very, for me, like animals was a big thing early on. So I had this natural innate instinct. I was very, very drawn to animals. And so it was like, it's my first memory. And I realized very young at four what meat was. And that kind of triggered the first acts of rebellion. But also I think there was, Ireland is amazing.

I obviously love Ireland and I'm proud to be Irish and all that. But our history is very kind of institutionalized and the, you know, the guys of the Catholic church and all that. There's somewhat of a generational itch about that in my generation to not like bow down to church and stay and all that. It's in you somewhere. I don't even know how to fully explain it, but I felt that rebellion. It wasn't necessarily within my own family, but as soon as I was in school and understanding that, you know, you had to follow this set of rules and you could only study subjects. And I was always really, really curious. And my curiosity was not allowed in an all girls Catholic convent school.

Right. And, you know, for people that are just listening and aren't watching this on video like you don't present as somebody who paints between the lines thank you yeah in in a good way in the best way right so all right so as a young person you develop this sensitivity around animals like where did that come from what is the origin of that it's you grew up on a farm or around animals? I grew up sort of beside one. So a lot of like the housing estates in Ireland, your house behind everyone's house

is like a field full of cows or sheep. So I grew up in a small kind of housing estate and behind our house was a house full of cows. And I thought when I was a little girl that the cows were my pets because I just, all animals, I was constantly bringing home strays and saving insects. And like I was driving my parents crazy over this. And there was a cow that I named Daisy.

Well, I'm sure they were all Daisy, but I kind of thought, you know, and I would climb the fence every day and I'd go out and I'd run around the field and play with the cows. And I just, I just loved animals and then when I was about four we were sitting having dinner one day with the family and my brother said that's Daisy on the table and I remember it really vividly it's actually one of my first memories and it's just like whole spark of synopsis going off in my brain like wait what like how what do you mean that's Daisy now obviously it wasn't actually Daisy it was just my brother trying to be you know an older brother we're poking fun at each other or whatever but I couldn't believe it and so I immediately was didn't want to eat me and it started this whole commotion and my poor parents were like why did you say that like this is crazy so I just had this

very visceral reaction to it and I thought if if my friend the cow my pet has to die for that to be on the table I don't want to be part of that so I was just declared right then and there that I was a vegetarian because we didn't have the language for the I didn't find out I was a vegan until I was in my teens. Like we didn't have the labels around it, which I'm not keen on anyway. But yeah, it was definitely triggered big time by animals and specifically by like that kind of connection I had to this pet cow. And we had pets and I just couldn't see the difference between my cat or the dog or the cow.

And you were four at the time. I was a pain in the ass. Yeah. As my parents had lovingly tell you. Yeah, I'm imagining like how that went over when you made that decision and you're young and parents are worried about the health of their children and want the best for them and all of that.

I would imagine there were some challenges or friction around that decision being that young. That was a journey for my parents that I really appreciate in hindsight because they were getting told a lot. Like, I mean, you see the misinformation now around in 2024, but back then, like my mom got told by a doctor

that I could get rickets. Rickets is like a vitamin C thing though. It's nothing got to do with eating meat or not. And, you know, I get stunted growth and like doctors were giving her this information. So there was a phase that, you know, all I can do is laugh about it now. But like my mom would try to liquidize meat into meals.

So she would try to liquidize. Just sneak it in. Yeah, because she was just genuinely worried. But I would taste it and spit it out and it became this whole thing. And then when I was, by the time I was about six, my dad was kind of like,

look, she's not backing down on this. So she seems fine. So everything, because Ireland's very much meat and potatoes. It's like, you know, that's it. Spuds and it's meat. A few veggies. So I would just eat the same thing,

take the meat away and they start putting veggie burgers down but um I'm sure it was scary for them and there was very little information and you're a small town in Ireland like we didn't have the nutritional information back then but I didn't have the language for it when I was a kid but I was very aware of my own moral compass at that point already there was it was a no-brainer I wasn't just going to eat it because somebody said this or somebody said this. So it was interesting and I'm sure it was really hard for them to navigate.

But then at a certain point, it was like, she looks, she seems fine. Maybe some generational trauma from the gray potato famine. You know, basically people- I still eat as if the potatoes are running out. Famine panic. And then you start sort of sneaking away

to volunteer at this animal rescue place, right? When you were also quite young. I was eight, yeah. That became my life for 10 years. So from eight to 18, I volunteered at a shelter just outside my hometown. And it was just so amazing. Like it was such hard work.

But to be involved in animal activism to that like depth so young really sort of in a way trained me up for the for the world. And it was just this couple that, you know, started the shelter nonprofit outside my hometown. And it was a lot of dogs, cats, horses, whatever animals needed rescuing. But because it was totally volunteer based and I had little to no funding, it was all hands on deck with volunteers. So we did a lot of heavy, like, you know, there was undercover stuff, there was real bad rescue, there was animal hoarding. And I was dealing with this in my early teens and it was quite a lot.

So a lot of my activism in that sense like I sort of got out of my system young when you start to change lanes on how you approach advocacy and activism later on but but I was deep in it for 10 years like it was like the undercover investigation boots on the ground ardent revolutionary energy of the whole thing. Yeah, like banned from fur shops in Dublin and, you know, throwing fake blood everywhere. I could just see it. All the fun stuff. All the fun stuff. Oh, my God.

But you had to, you know, there was no, there was very few animal resources in Ireland like that for shelters. So a lot of it was just downed animals on farms or hoarding and poverty issues with farming, with farmers having to give up their animals and then, you know, neglect, abuse, all this stuff. We were going through court cases with them and, you know, just hands-on cleaning, all the glamorous stuff, cleaning up shit for 40

dogs every day. But you start this at eight, like at eight years old, how did, how did you even find out this place existed or how did you, you know, and if you're like kind of sneaking off that young, like the people that work there, they're like, there's an eight year old who showed up here. Well, yeah, no, they became my second family real quick, but it was a school trip that they brought us to a shelter for a day. And we, we spent the day there. like the teachers brought us when I was in primary school which I don't know what the equivalent is here but I was a elementary school elementary yeah so they brought us on like a day trip a field trip to see the shelter and I just didn't want to leave so I kept going back so you could volunteer and you know and then

I would spend my weekends there they would drop me out when I was in my like I started going with the school first and then you can volunteer your time, obviously for all sorts of things, like selling tickets in school to fundraise and all that stuff. And then it just became where I went every spare hour and eventually my parents were just like all in on it

because at least it's keeping me out of trouble. It's like, so, you know, I spent every weekend there and then because the school I went to was relatively close, by the time I got to secondary school in my early teens, I would just, what we call, mitch off school. So you like bounce out for a few hours. And I wasn't doing anything actually rebellious or cool. I was just going to the animal shelter to help out.

Again, very odd rock and roll. Teaching school to volunteer. Yeah, hardcore rebel, you know. The activism is really the central primary thing for you. It's almost as if the music is something that gives you a platform and some visibility to be this activist and talk about the things that you care about most.

Is that fair? Is that true? It's 100% true, Yeah. Because I never would have guessed that I would even end up in music. There was no sign of it really, other than I liked music and my dad played it in the background, but there's no one in my family that's a musician. But I was going to be a vet or marine biologist. That's where I was headed. And then I picked up a bass when I was 18 and I did a total 180. It was early on that I also saw that thing of, oh, this is interesting.

If you have a platform or if you're out there, you know, you have a different avenue or platform that you can speak about your passions on. And because for me, music was never something that I wanted to get into for the glory of it or for the ego of it or whatever. It was like, oh, okay, you can have a platform and kind of use it, even if it's just like playing around in my local bands. I could put like fundraiser nights on and use the bands to do fundraising. So it was always the roots of activism.

And then I just did this 180 and ended up being a bass player. Yeah, it's a wild story. I mean, not just a bass player. Yeah, it's a wild story. I mean, not just a bass player. I mean, you're playing with like legends all over the world. It's a crazy thing. And you've only been here like how long? Eight years, nine years or something like that?

Yeah, I've been in the- It's a pretty fast ascent. I like to jump in. Yeah, I mean, I guess. But walk me through that moment where you picked up the bass, like why the bass? How did music enter your life? Like, what is that origin story all about?

Well, I picked up a bass because I dropped out of school. Yeah. Because I was really close to our finals, which is our leaving cert. And my poor parents, when I think back of this story, I was really good at school I was a straight A student um but I was just always frustrated with this kind of archaic system and especially in this like obviously Catholic Irish school I just never felt especially when

you're into my late teens like that I never felt that it was pushing me or it was really bringing me to where I want I just had this kind of innate instinct that like this is really not working so I left right before like six months before finals and everyone's like just stay you need this piece of paper like in Ireland that's the whole thing it's like you have to get your leaving certificate then your life will be good and I was like I can't be that like I feel viscerally ill thinking about staying. And what will happen is I will just follow my friends in this format. I'll just go wherever they go if I don't follow what's sort of inside. So when I left, I had to do something. So there was a local course

you could do and you could pick. It was like catering computers or music. So I picked music because I'd had like two drum lessons and I thought, oh, fuck it, I'll be a musician. And I went in as a drummer, actually, and they didn't have a drum kit and I didn't have a drum kit. So they just, I had had two lessons with a local band and they had an electronic drum kit. And at the time, this is way before, like, we brought out these amazing digital kits,

but I didn't like it. So I was walking by one of the rooms and I saw a local bass player from my hometown playing, Niall Masterson, and he was playing all this really beautiful melodic stuff. And I had never seen bass in that context. I don't need, you know, it's like rock and roll and it's punk or whatever you'd heard.

And I was just mesmerized. So I asked if I could switch. So I switched to bass. So I became a bass player instead. But there was no bass teacher. There was only a guitar teacher. So I was kind of left to my own devices. And I just went on this obsessive journey of bass.

And I joined my first band, which was my cousin's band, like six or seven weeks after picking up a bass. And I was absolutely terrible. But I thought, well, fuck it. If I get out and play with them, maybe this will like dust the cobwebs off something. And self-taught. Yeah, 100% self-taught all year. fuck it if I get out and play with them, maybe this will like dust the cobwebs off something. And self-taught.

Yeah, 100% self-taught all year. There's something really interesting about you. Like to be that young, four years old and realize like, hey, meat's not for me. And then to have this conviction around activism such that you're like ditching school and for the purpose of volunteering. And then that self-awareness that school wasn't moving you

in the direction of your intuition, there's like a strength of character there, like a self-knowledge, like you knowing yourself at a very early age and what was in your interest or where your attention should be directed that I think is unusual for such a young person. It's unusual for probably most people

to like have that sense of, it's almost like past life shit, right? Like you came into the world, like, this is who I am. This is not right for me. I'm gonna move. And to be able to like, against all the pressure of like the Catholic church, the school system, concerned parents, et cetera, to like make those decisions at such a young age

is super interesting. You know, you say the past life stuff and then people are like, oh, it's a bit woo woo. I don't know, like I'm not a religious person. You know, I guess I'm some iteration of spiritual, but maybe, I had this conversation with Melanie Joy before, actually, you know I guess I'm some iteration of spiritual but maybe I had this conversation with Melanie Joy before actually you know Melanie where it's like do some people channel something from a past life that like you arrive and you know because it just just seems normal to me because it makes sense right it's like as soon as I discover this it's like well

I don't want to eat them because I like animals I don't want to stay here because it's wasting my time I know my time is better spent over here but maybe that's not obvious to to most or the pressure is too hard but to be able to live a congruent life and to know that you know you're in alignment with your morals is something that was very obvious like and natural from a young age so I don't think that it's unique or different but I think that it's it is also probably why there's so much frustration in the world and why people are so divided and that because we are often out of line and we're not living in congruency what we actually feel inside and you know we obviously do that a lot when it comes to morally justifying

or morally compartmentalizing things just because it's convenient. Yeah, we compartmentalize and we deny because we have to consume and leave a footprint on the planet. And we have to find ways to kind of justify our actions and our behavior so that we can sleep at night, given the fact that I think all human beings

are innately compassionate and don't want to do harm to others or to the planet. Yeah, it becomes a tricky thing. But for you as a young person, in this, like I'm just imagining you in high school and you're cutting a very different path for yourself, but peer pressure and the kind of sense that a young person has to wanna belong

and be approved of, like what kind of, like what was the, like where did you fit in at that time in your life? Like, were you accepted? Were you like a pariah or a renegade or, you know? I mean, it's all very punk rock, but- It is a little punk rock, I guess, when I look back. I don't think I ever had that strong of a desire to fit in.

Like I was okay with being, I just, I always feel like I just had blinkers on. Like I've always known somewhere inside, like why I'm going this way or that way. I had like great, you know, friends. I was, I was also bullied over certain stuff, but I also had great friends. It's a mix of it all because like I had a lot of fun in school with my girlfriends,

but I also was very frustrated at like the tribalism within like the cliques. So I floated between a lot of groups and one of my biggest issues in secondary school, like two or three of my friends were from, because I think it was a performative thing at that point by that generation that these schools have like one Muslim girl

and one girl from the Balkans and one girl from, you know, wherever to try and look a little bit like diverse. But they were, everyone was kept separate. Like they weren't, my friends that were Muslim or Hindu weren't allowed to come to religious studies. And I would get into these debates with my teachers and the priests. Like, why not? I want to learn about their religion.

I want to learn about their cultures. Why can't they learn about mine? And so I did a lot of floating between the different groups. And I was never necessarily bothered by it. But when it came to like teenage, like mid-teens and party time I did get a little bit of your the uncool pushback because it was just never really my jam I would I would kind of party but not really not like a like what is your like have you ever you have you ever been a partier like traveling the world and being with these bands and all that? None of that? No.

I'm like, I can. Not even like a phase? Like I can. That's the thing. Like I've never been a heavy drinker. I've never, drugs have been over my jam. I just, I don't like the losing control part. Maybe I'm just a control freak.

I don't like that sense of, so it was never my vibe. And I had so many friends that went down that rabbit hole big time that I was kind of watching on. That doesn't really look like fun to me. And I ended up just being as a, you know, band mom. I'm like, oh, they're there. But not really. Like I've definitely partied at times.

But, you know, by midnight, I'm probably drinking a cup of tea. Never. Yeah, it hasn't been a thing for you. All right, so pick up the bass. You're like, this is my thing. You become obsessed with it. You're in your first band. What happens from there? you're in your first band what happens from there I uh I joined my first band in my hometown and we were like super heavy metal upside down crosses behind the drummer super fun and uh

started gigging almost immediately within the first few months so I'm playing around you know playing locally and playing the small small town venues and we're loading in as this heavy metal band it was so fun and then after that i joined a couple of like corporate wedding bands so that's where you kind of cut your teeth having to yeah you gotta make some money oh shit i gotta make money off this yeah because it's just gotta be able to play the hits and and then go do your own stuff exactly weekend and not have to worry about making money doing that. Exactly, exactly. So I did a lot of bands in Ireland over this. So within the first few years of me actually picking it up and I did this music course, which although there was no bass teacher,

there was a guitar teacher that was great. And he helped to guide me through like at least practicing some, you know, consistent workouts or whatever for your technicality. And he would challenge, you know, he'd make me be in these different bands and then for the sake of the experience of doing an audition he sent me to do an audition to a jazz college in Dublin and it was I wasn't trying to get into the college I was just going to have an experience part of our like we had to do a report back we

did an audition and this is how it went but I did an audition and then the college accepted me and it became this really funny thing because you're not supposed to get into college without the leaving certificate you go back to the high school and say look at this it was pretty funny I was like oh I wasn't planning on getting in so I went to that college for a year and I really I had a good time that's when I met because I'm totally self-taught so I'm going into this jazz college of these phenomenal musicians coming in from around the world that have jazz and classical backgrounds and I'm just like this chick from a small town Ireland that's playing in a rock band so it made me dive in to play with some pretty incredible players from all types of

styles of music. But after a year, the college was amazing and the people were lovely, but they were really trying to get me like, let's get you to stay here for four years and do a jazz degree. And I was like, but I really like gigging. Like I like being out playing. I'd already realized that. And I was starting at that time to get TV house band gigs. So like Ireland's equivalent to the Saturday night show, stuff like that, you know, the late, late show and you're playing in the bands. And then off the back of that, you're getting these little gigs. And I was starting to get like a little sort of session. I didn't really know what it was yet, like a session musician. And the college was pushing me to stay. But in order to really like follow the criteria

of that college and get this jazz master's degree, you're practicing nine, 10, 12 hours a day. And they didn't really encourage me gigging. So I left. Well, that's less surprising because it wasn't your path to become a jazz musician. That wasn't what your interest was. And once you developed the technique and understood like the training and had enough to take away from you, like getting a piece of paper saying you graduated doesn't really mean anything in the context of the career you're trying to build. Exactly, exactly. So again, it was just one of those pivots where it's like, okay, that was a great year. I met some great people that pushed me musically and now I'm going to follow this trajectory so at that stage I was in about six or seven bands at a time. And are you

living in Dublin at this point? Yeah I'd gotten up to Dublin at this stage I was for the first year I was going up and down the train for my hometown. How far away is your hometown? It's only an hour it's an hour and a bit but uh when it was funny because then when I moved to Dublin and like the only place that we could afford to be was way outside the city so it was actually further than where I was coming from my hometown so I was getting up you know five and six o'clock in the morning base on back two different trains up to the city and then a big walk up a hill in to go to this jazz college but um but it was a great year you know it was a great experience but I just knew I wanted to play live.

I was like, okay, this is my thing. So six or seven bands, you're just bopping around with all these bands. What was the kind of big break or inflection point? Like when did things start to kick into a different gear? So I'd done a couple years really gigging like the Irish scene, and I did a gig with Sharon Core from the Cores, and that brought me abroad, and I was um like I did a gig with Sharon Core from the Cores and that brought me abroad and I was starting to see that oh okay like this can this can be a career career but at the same time Ireland is small and which means it's a small scene that I was seeing that that's it like you

sort of rotate in this circle of gigs and then that's all the gigs so I need to go out so I started thinking about trying to come to America or London and I had one band that were coming back and forth doing like UK shows. And then I met Maynard Keenan from Tool. I was at a Tool show. I was over in Glasgow with one of my bands and he, long story short, invited me to record in Arizona

and I was a massive Tool fan. But one of the things I'd never, like I've never been someone who gets star stroke over anybody, usually just like a philosopher or a chef or something, again, very on rock and roll. But Maynard invited me to Arizona when I was like 21. All right, hold on a second. So I need to unpack that a little bit more

because I'm trying to understand how just meeting him backstage translated into him saying, come to Arizona and record on this album. And not for nothing, like Maynard is also a polymath who does many different things. He's got a winery.

He's got this crazy situation out in Arizona where all kinds of stuff is happening. So I think it was because I ended, so some of the crew I was working with in Glasgow were working the same show. So that's how we ended up all chatting backstage. And at that time, I was in this mad phase of conical rhythms, Indian music in metal. And Danny Carey from Tool does a lot of this really eclectic drumming over metal. eclectic drumming over metal so we were just having a very musical conversation that I think this is like me and Danny and Maynard chatting and one of one of the roadies I knew and we're talking about music like in depth like you know just nerding out whereas all the other people who especially the girls that had come backstage it was very like fangirl situation going on so we just were having this great conversation and at at the time he was, he already had Pussifer,

but he was sort of starting to think about doing another record. So I think he just maybe saw some sort of passion in me about it. And he said, would you like to play on a track? And I'm thinking, I mean, yeah. You're like gigging around in all these different bands trying to make ends meet.

Trying to, exactly. And this guy's like iconic. Exactly. He's like, come to Arizona and play on my record. Yeah. So I flew home the next morning and my parents got this like very big shock. How old are you at this time? How long ago was this?

I was 20, 21, 2021. And my poor parents, again, I like burst in the door i'm like i'm going to america like what i'm going to america to play with and they're like the guy from that band she listens to tool right which is kind of like scary like a little bit it's like a very i mean you're a parent totally you're like the tool guy yeah yeah i know yeah so i had uh exchanged a few emails then back and forth with Maynard to figure out when they were doing it and I sold I think I had like one bass I sold and a few hundred euros that I'd saved and I bought a ticket to Arizona and because it wasn't it wasn't a gig in the sense that like all these musicians were being hired it's like hey if you're around come so it was a

decision that I was going okay I should go and do this this seems like this could be a catalyst for something else so i saved you know i saved up my little few hundredth night i bought a flight to arizona came out and recorded uh for about two weeks was that up in jerome yeah yeah yeah so that was my first it's's a trippy place. It's so beautiful and eerie and all the things at once. I really loved it there. But that was my first kind of dive into the U.S. music scene. But Maynard taking a risk on me as a young player is something that really, you know, I'm forever grateful for.

Because we didn't, like we just recorded. We did some demos. He released some of the stuff I was on. But it wasn't that I was destined to be in the band with him. That was like a fun recording thing. Right, you were session music. Yeah, and he had a few friends come in and it was about jamming around.

And when I look back, even at my gear, I always laugh at this. Like I didn't have good gear. I had this beat up shitty old bass and these terrible pedals, but the experience of going in was so, so much learning because the guys that were also working with him, like these are masters of their craft.

And we just had a blast. Like we recorded it all in his garage. And that left me very much like, whoa, if I can record and play with that level of artists, I think I need to go to the US because I've obviously done what I can in Ireland. I mean, a huge confidence booster, but also being in Jerome isn't like you're in the mix

of some kind of community upon which you're gonna build a career, right? So how do you take that experience and channel that into this decision to move to, I mean, did you know other people in the music business when you moved out? No, I didn't know anybody. And actually it was funny because Maynard told me,

don't move to LA. Yeah, that's not surprising. Yeah, because he had already done the whole, like a lot of artists do a chapter here and they're like, Yeah, you build your career and then you- Then you bounce basically. But it took a good few years because it's also not easy to just come here.

I can't just come here. There's a whole visa process to work and all that. So I went back to Ireland. You know, I just kept gigging. I was gigging around and I was in up to nine bands at a time at that stage. I was doing three or four corporate bands. I did duo, I did trio.

I was doing the TV stuff. And I was also trying to still do my activism stuff. And I think I was just, you know, really cutting my teeth for, I got to get out to America at some stage because I couldn't get it out of my mind that if I can play with Maynard over there, surely this is, something is happening I need to go to. But I tried London first because I thought, well, I'll pop over to London. It's right there. And the weather was too like Ireland so yeah LA was calling LA was calling

and sunshine really helped so then I started this whole long process of how do I go to LA and stay in LA because it's really you can only get a ESTA visitor visa at first so I can be here for 90 days. But I had no idea how expensive it was in LA comparatively to small town Ireland or even living in Dublin at that time. So I would come over and then within two weeks be totally broke and have to go home on my tail between my legs. It's not unusual.

I mean, this is a really hard place to move to if you don't know people. It can be unbelievably lonely here. It's so unusual. I mean, this is a really hard place to move to. If you don't know people, it can be unbelievably lonely here. It's so spread out, everyone's in their car. It's very difficult to make plans with people. People are not so receptive to meeting new people. Like if you're in New York City or London,

or you're bumping into people on the street all the time, it's a much more social, you know, there's more social grease, I think. And here you have to really work at it. And if you don't know anybody, it becomes like a very impenetrable kind of lonely place. It's very lonely. And I was really lonely at the beginning.

And I was terrified to be honest, because I didn't know, for me, LA was just Hollywood. You're like, so you go to Hollywood and that's what you do. Right. You get off the bus. I mean, it's literally like the script, right? You pull up in the bus and you get out and you have your base. Base on my back. And you're like Hollywood in Vine. You don't realize that Hollywood is an idea more than it is a place. Completely. And you're like, this is it? Oh, it's awful. It's awful.

And it's that exact scene. And I even, it's as bad as, I stayed in the Hollywood hostel because I thought, well, that's where you stay. And I didn't know anybody. So, and it's all I could afford. And there was a, the first time there was like an ASCAP convention on.

So I figured, well, like anything in in life if you are trying to achieve something you should try and surround yourself with people who are already doing that thing so that you can kind of try to absorb it so I figured if I go to a few music conventions so ASCAP was happening on on Hollywood and Vine I can't remember what that hotel is so I checked in because I didn't have a car I'd fuck all money I'm like I'll stay here I was terrified because every night I was just like in the hostel with my base in the bed thinking this is it gonna get robbed yeah this is how it's gonna end um but every day of the convention that I would go I would you know start these conversations and I was on my own and so in in hindsight that was kind of a good thing because as scary as it was,

it forced me to talk to people. I had to talk to people because I'm like looking for a gig. I'm looking for information on where the gigs are happening. I didn't know anything and I didn't know one single person. So it forced me

and I kept meeting all these really interesting characters and I couldn't believe it. It's like, this guy was in Prince's band and this guy plays for Paul McCartney and so I started to understand that, okay these are the session players. The session musician ecosystem. Yeah and I didn't even know that that's what I wanted to be at it because we didn't really have the same language around it in the Irish music scene but it's also like you said like it's so lonely and I could sense immediately that it's kind of you you know, can be a city of sycophants as well.

It's like, one minute, everybody's talking to each other, but only if they can get something. But you slowly start, and I met a lot of questionable characters and it was, you know, thankfully I had sort of a good head on my shoulders for the most part. But there was a lot of, it could have been worse or it could have been dodgy. But then you start to meet really good people

and stuff starts to slowly catalyze. Yeah, to navigate the sycophants and to realize who's transactional and who isn't and who's a bullshitter. I mean, so much bullshit, you know? And then you realize like, oh, the people that are actually successful at this, they're actually not at these things talking to people

because they're working and doing the thing and being professionals. But when you're new, you just wanna meet anyone you can. But I think you're, I mean, you're a very good people person and you learn as I'm sure you have, like, yes, you have a talent. You have to be good at what you do.

You have to excel at the skill, but you're in this really insecure economy because there's no job security. You're just bouncing around from, if you're a session player or you're in a band or whatever, or you're working production in film or television, you go job to job to job. And the people that are successful

are the ones that are good, they show up on time, all that kind of, they're professional, but also like people like them, they wanna work with, they're like, oh, we have another thing, like let's get so-and-so. And you seem like somebody who understands that. I guess. I guess so, yeah, and it's like,

cause when I was new and I was first there, you do, you just have to go around and talk to everybody, right? But then exactly like you said, the people that are really the top cats in this field, you're not gonna see them at everything. Right, they're not on the Sunset Strip like going to all these, they're doing their thing. Yeah, and at first you have that FOMO in a way

and you're like, oh, I have to be at every party, I have to be everywhere, which is important at the beginning when you're networking, which to an Irish person is just talking, you know, everyone says you got to network. I'm always laughing at that word

because it seems so forced. Well, because it implies the transactional nature of it. Exactly, exactly. So I didn't like the language around that a whole lot, but you know, it was important to sort of dive in

and go to all these jam nights and then start to see who who's really who's really working in this industry and who's really doing what and who are the go-getters and who are just the good people who's like good people because I met some really shitty people at the beginning and there was a lot of like trying to be taken advantage of and you start to filter out real quick okay I don't want to give any energy over here and these people are good and then you know as you show up enough times eventually they invite you up on stage to play it's like she's not going away it's like let her up so what was the the big break in LA what was the first so LA I started playing there was a couple of jam nights that happened out here I'd done some studio work with a producer.

I had a band in Ireland that came back and forth twice. And we did an album up in Laurel Canyon with a pretty well-known producer, Warren Hoard. And that was interesting because I was like, okay, that's the studio side of it. But again, I couldn't work here. So I was going back and forth, back and forth. And so there's like a little studio thing on my CV for LA. And of course I had Maynard on my CV as far as my musical CV is. That's getting you in the door.

Yeah. People are interested when you have some sort of a resume because all the other work I'd done didn't translate over here. There are big bands in Ireland or Europe, but nobody knows who they are here. Except one experience. River Dance. Oh. The liver dance so you were in the river dance band for like 18 months or something like that yeah i toured that's like iconic it's so funny how that translates everywhere yeah i did 18 about 18 months total around the world and like we played in china

and only olympic stadiums and it it's than, it seems like it's bigger than Utah. It's so bizarre though when you're in, because it's just not just a theater show, but you know what I mean? For us, it's just part of the culture. And yeah, we go to these places and it's fans coming out for every dancer, every musician. The Riverdance was, that translates to some people

are more confused. Because when I say I work with Maynard Keenan and I do the river dance right there how do I understand this yeah they're just like well I guess you're diverse there is a bit of that but um I think because you know obviously in these in these jam scenes and what they're asking like oh who have you played or what have you done so I did have a little bit of that and then what was interesting when I first started doing that, the sort of top 40 hits that people are playing out here are totally different to what I grew up on and was playing on in wedding bands back home. So I had to learn a lot of music that I wasn't that familiar with.

So we, you know, the guys in the house bands at the Hollywood Jam started to let me jam. And over the weeks and months, you'd get these little gigs first there's a local band I played in like a bunch of rap bands I was in Inglewood in a rap band for a couple months that was really fun I was in a gospel band for a while I was doing all these I just at that time I would do any gig I just say yes I'll do it and then I got a gig with a pop artist called Jordan Fisher through like Disney. Someone had seen me play and that was in that realm in the pop space, kind of a bigger one. And then I went back, I did a tour with him and I went back to start doing the jam scene in LA again.

And the drummer who played with Dee Snider, we played together. And then it was like, hey, Dee's looking for a bass player for for a one-off show i thought perfect because i'm in this other gig and that's rad i kind of knew i knew who d was but i didn't really know much about his his whole entire back history and as me and d always joke we're like we're supposed to do one gig and then we ended up doing like two or three years so you show up and you crush it and he's like okay he's like that's tour yeah it's great and i ended up becoming his md as well and we did like two or three I found my new bass player. Yeah, it was great. And I ended up becoming his MD as well. And we did like two or three years together.

And I recorded some of the stuff on his second last record. So D was, I guess, the first bigger rock and roll one. And then off the back of D, I'd already started filling in for a friend who played for Stephen Adler because he was like double booked sometimes. I was playing with Stephen from Guns N' Roses and then Whitesnake. We were joking like, like you have big hair,

but probably not the biggest hair. Well, when I first joined Whitesnake, and I know a lot of those guys long before I was in the band, like we knew each other. Because again, a lot, you know, people are session players and David had seen me play at some festivals

where I was playing in bands before Whitesnake. So I guess it was in his head that when the position came open, he already had me in place. But when I first joined and we were doing like band shots, I was like, this is the first band, I don't have the biggest hair.

That's so funny. That's a crazy story. It happened pretty quickly too. What do you make of that? It happened quickly once it really started rolling, but it feels like- Like kind of once you were in, you're in, and it's a smaller community of people

than maybe you might think. Yeah, it snowballs at a certain point, but like the years, the first few years in LA were rough. Like it was really rough. It was like, I think I'm gonna starve or not be able to fly home. Like at one stage, I remember I had a voucher for like a rice and bean burrito from Taco Bell. And that's like all I had left. What kept you in it when it was that hard? I mean, there doesn't seem like there was a plan B, like this was it. You had to make it work.

I think not having a plan B necessarily but a lot of this I think comes back to the music and it being a platform or a vessel there's something internal driving why I keep doing it because there's a bigger purpose for it all so I don't really have a choice to not keep going in a way and then just pure stubbornness. And there's something about resistance, you know, and there's just the audacity to think that you can do something. And if you have such an audacious goal, you know, at some point I was like,

well, fuck it, I'll be a session player. I don't really know what that is, but I'm going to go do it. And that if I can keep growing this platform, then I can keep speaking for what, you know, my sort of path in life is all about. So it's a little bit of stubbornness and a little bit of audacity.

Well, let's talk a little bit about how all of that works. Like, how are you using this platform? I know that, I mean, we have tons, like we have tons of overlap in our friend group and know lots of the same people. But one of the things that you've done that's really cool is this highway to health series that you did with Derek Green.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who's, you know, who I know through Toby Morse. That's right, yeah. And he's the- Love those guys. He's the guy and how do you say it? His name was Sepultura. Sepultura. Sepultura.

Yeah. Yeah, legend. Yes, absolutely. So you did this like series where you interviewed all these people and talked about the impact of plant-based nutrition on health, et cetera. Like that's one of the things that you've done,

but you've done a lot of things. And I wanna talk about this documentary project that you're working on now. All the things, yeah. Yeah, Derek is awesome. I love Toby and Derek and all that kind. He's a lovely human. Yeah, yeah. And again, it's one of those things like people see Derek perform

and he's this big, scary metal guy, screamo, you know, heavy metal. He's a pussycat. He's a total pussycat. But, you know, we met years ago in music industry and same groups of friends and all that as well. And we were seeing all these similarities of our own frustrations with the misconception around how it must be hard to be healthy on the road and Derek obviously is really representing in the male demographic big

strong dude and vegan and we were talking about he was actually in Dublin with Kip and a few of like the advocacy world was we're recording for early iterations of a documentary and I remember Derek was playing in Dublin and I was on a layover and we were just sitting comparing this idea that we both had to do like a plant-based show of some form. And they were essentially the same thing. So I was like, why don't we join forces?

Way more fun. So we just started filming. I put together a crew from Ireland and, you know, raised a little funds and, you know, yourself, you're like, it'll only cost a little bit. And then this big production happens, like, fuck, now we've got a fundraise. This part sucks.

But we went around the world and COVID obviously kind of stopped us like it did with many people. But we had filmed quite a bit. And the idea was just to show how easy it is to actually be healthy, whole foods, plant-based anywhere in the world. Because if Derek and I can do it constantly on tour, not knowing where our next meal is coming from and in this constant state of motion

and dealing with, you know, ever-changing situations, we wanted to just show that it's actually very easy. So with, you know, who we're connected to naturally, our friends are and musicians and whatnot we just started doing these interviews and we did a lot in Brazil because he's got a big base out of there and we went on board with like Sea Shepherd and we did ocean conservation we talked to Ford about you know the the future of automotive and it was it's a fun little series and we're just now starting to actually kind of push it out slowly because like a lot of media projects it's hard to find your footing and to get stuff out there so we figured you know

we'll record a bunch of it and just let it do its old school street team thing well you was it originally intended to be something that you would set up with a streamer or a network we did kind of derail that and now it's like a YouTube thing. Yeah, because we filmed with the intent of let's do like season one and we'll do, you know, eight episodes. But right as we finished filming what we considered like to be season one, we had all these cool, fun interviews. We had Dee, we had Moby, we had, you know, Kevin Smith, the usuals, and then a load of random just brilliant minds. The negotiations with the powers that be and a lot of these streamers and that, the contracts were just so ridiculous

that for what, it's a mission aligned project. The whole point is to just put stuff out there that might inspire some people to think differently. And it was weird we just kept getting asked to sign into these things into perpetuity that they would own the content for seven years and maybe so we just pivoted at that point because he ended no one in in any of the arts really knew what was happening obviously true go but it was difficult so it's like well let's just kind of chop it up into smaller segments and start putting it out and see if it takes its own wings.

And are you going to continue to make new episodes? Well, we've so much content from the original one. So first we'll put all of that out. And then hopefully, hopefully we'll film more down the line while we tour. Because it makes most sense when we're on the road and if we can kind of overlap or sort of chase each other's tails on tour. Because he's doing, I'm going on tour, starting like two weeks and I'll be out for three or four months

and Derek's out on their farewell cycle starting already. So it's kind of about catching where we are. Yeah, I mean, where are you going to overlap? I guess, well, in the heavy metal world, like the big thing is all these European festivals, right? So all the bands are kind of in the same place at the same time and going from one festival to the next. Is that true?

That's what we all want. But what happens is like if you play Hellfest or Grass Pop or all the Sweden rock, the typicals in that run, which are the most amazing festivals to play, usually you check the flyer and you're in, your friend's doing Friday, you're doing Saturday, you're the friends are doing- And they've left before you get there and all that.

Yeah, yeah. Which is the only frustrating thing. I was just talking to my friend this morning who plays with Steve Hackett, Genesis, and he's in Guadalajara when I land with Bruce. And we're playing the same venue, but a day apart and we're chasing for like two weeks, we're on the same route.

So there's a lot of that with touring musicians. We're just like, I almost saw you. And how do you use your platform kind of in an analog way when you're up in front of all these people in real life all the time? Like, what does that look like for you as somebody who spends a lot of time considering or thinking about like, you're this public person, you have this thing you care about, you want to carry this message? Honestly, just trying to live by example. this thing you care about? You want to carry this message? Honestly, just trying to live by example. Like for me, social media is a love-hate relationship. Like for many people that sometimes I just want to delete it all. But then I think, you know what? I love food and I love

this travel that I do. I just post about how simple it is because the curiosity then that people are messaging me all the time from all over the world. Food looks amazing. I had no idea you could eat that. I had no idea, you know, where'd you find this restaurant? So for me, I just like to sort of show how easy it is. And also, you know, in doing so you're supporting a smaller economy and you're helping restaurants around the world or whatever. So a lot of it is food for me. And then I really like conversing with people who think extremely differently. So I like to kind of get involved in while I'm traveling in sort of very, very different juxtaposed world. So my use of the platform in that sense is not always online. You know, a lot is going on off offline as well and behind the scenes and opening a lot of dialogue as I travel with unlikely, very, very unlikely people and very unlikely industries as well.

So as far as the use of social media and the platform itself, like in a visual way, it's mostly just food and health and kind of breaking down that stereotype of rock and roll. And you must be partying all the time. Like, oh, I do shots of wheatgrass. Yeah, I mean, you wanna know it's really punk rock, like not partying and trying to get to bed on time and treating your body right. Well, hey, no judgment either. I have friends that can party like actual rock stars

and seem to be fine, but it's just- God bless those people. I know. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how you do it though. Like you're playing these gigs, you. God bless those people. I know. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how you do it though. Like you're playing these gigs, you don't finish until late. You have this rider, so there's food backstage,

but still then you're immediately on a bus or going to an airport. You're in airports. We all know what airport food is like. You arrive at your hotel, room service is terrible. Maybe you're not near a city. There's no happy cow, you know, friendly, you know, vegan restaurant

that's within walking distance. Like, how are you putting all those pieces together and keeping it, you know, keeping it healthy? It's a combination, I guess, of, I've been doing it so long now, I feel like I've been on the road pretty consistently for like 10, 12 years, like without stopping between all the bands.

So you get pretty smart about the small things, like bringing snacks and bringing, because you've had too many situations where you've arrived in wherever, Sarajevo, there's nothing open, and you at least have your dried mango and mixed nuts with you. You have like one like suitcase just full of... No, I don't bring, I'm not that extent, but I always have like in my backpack, I have some snacks for like the emergency break seal if hungry, you know, the famine spuds are in there.

But really it's like eating sides has been a big thing that I always talk about. Like no matter where you are in the world and steakhouses or anything like that are always gonna have sides like most places have vegetables but when when you're just used to ordering a certain way because food is absolutely about psychology for me I just if the restaurant seems hard for a vegan to eat at you just look at the sides and then you ask for all the sides as a dish, as a main, but being prepared then with some snacks as well. And when I'm home, especially like I really stay, I'm all about home cooking and sort of stocking up. Well, you live out in the middle of nowhere in the desert though, right? I do. It's not like there's a whole bunch of restaurants that you're going to be going to.

Which is probably good because it makes me cook. It makes me cook a lot, but you just, yeah, you just get really used to it it's like this is my normal so it's not you know it's not something that I'm gonna ever oh just because there's only fast food around I'm gonna eat fast food now because I know how that I've done that before and it makes me feel totally crap and then you try and perform on top of that like I used to joke with some of the guys I'd be on the buses with it. And, you know, the hardest place actually to be consistently healthy is the US because most of the bus stops, they're not necessarily the East and West coast, but the bus stops in those little strip malls that have, you know, the Wendy's, the McDonald's, the Burger King, whatever. And then everyone's going there. Now they have Chipotle.

Chipotle save us a lot. That really is a lifesaver. Yeah, I'm so sick of it though. Wherever you go, like you can get rice and beans. I know. And so free to, you're like, oh, yay. But at least there's that. But I used to do, you know,

cause you can get veggie burgers, veggie vegan burgers, whatever. But I would still feel crap if I ate. Yeah, cause it's still fast food. It's just fast food. And I just don't like how it makes me feel. So I'd rather go into the petrol station or the gas station, as they say here,

and get an apple, a banana, a bag of popcorn and a bag of nuts and water and wait until I get to the hotel than just go and get the veggie supersized meal or whatever because it's convenient. Because I know how it feels you're already tired enough on tour and then to put the wrong fuel in and to have to walk out and play like especially in festival season you're playing to 80 100 000 people and you're like

you need to be fueled yeah correctly so it's just something i don't compromise on you know what is that like when you're walking out on stage and there's that many people in the crowd and they're going bananas? It's a trip. It's a trip. And it's funny though, like the bigger the crowd, the easier it is. Because it's so surreal when you're playing to the sea of dots of everybody jumping up and down. It's really because of the bands that I've been playing with over the years. It's pretty special because you're playing legendary hits. You're playing stuff, you know,

Dee Snider's doing I Want to Rock or We're Not Going to Take It and everyone's like bouncing like they're teenagers again and Whitesnake songs. So it's an adrenaline rush. It's, I would imagine, something similar to when you're

deep in it with your ultra marathons. But it's also for me the only time that I'm really present, which is such an interesting thing when I when I step away and I because I'm actually quite I appear extroverted, but I'm an introverted extrovert. So stage like I don't like being in the crowd or having to be in a big crowd so when I'm on stage I feel safe and I'm very very present because like I can only be here locked in with my drummer I'm in this moment as this is as present as it gets and this energy that's coming and it's also really cool because you play all over the world and you look out into

crowds of people who, you're looking at however many thousands of people, probably have loads of stuff on a daily basis they debate and fight about, but music then has this beautiful unity where for that 90 minutes or two hours or three hours, everybody's just in it for music, which is really beautiful. And there's like this respect, and that's kind of what I vibe off the whole crowd for.

What has been the most surreal, like live performance experience that you've had? Ooh, there's been a few. Actually, probably more recently, we finished up the European Whitesnake Run at Hellfest, which is one of my favorite festivals. Hellfest? Hellfest.

It's amazing. We're playing it again with Bruce. I love this festival. And Steve Vai joined us for Still of the Night. So we had Steve Vai come out and play on Still of the Night. So we had the original still you know Whitesnake right to play with Steve Vai and have me there Tommy Aldridge on drums and David Coverdale on vocals I was like what the fuck am I doing up here this is such a trip that was

amazing that was really I'll never forget that because obviously Steve is a legend in his own right and then to have David decide to bring him out for that song and nobody was expecting it and you know he's on the original recording so that was pretty incredible but I've had a few of those like I had some amazing experiences with Dee as well we did some really fun stuff in in South America and yeah it's uh where are the the best crowds for this kind of music is Is it South America? Is it Japan? Is it like Germany?

South America is pretty spectacular. Something about rock and roll really is still alive down there. And also when you're playing, and this can apply to anywhere really. Like we just played in Sarajevo recently. This is one of the most amazing experiences. Because I don't know if you ever heard Bruce's story with Sarajevo in the 90s. No. Oh, it's phenomenal. I'll let him tell it properly when you guys get together. But he was the only person that went in and played music during the war. And it's this whole beautiful, crazy story. But so Bruce is a legend in Sarajevo

because he, as he'll say himself, that he was just young and stupid and didn't know what he was actually doing. But it was incredible. No one would go in. Even the UN were like, you're crazy. So Bruce went in and played a gig in the middle of the war. And he became a legend in Sarajevo. And he hadn't been back since. And we went back last year to do the concerto.

And everyone was just crying in the crowd. It was phenomenal because guys that were now our crew and or in the crowd were kids at the gig when Bruce came in, when, you know, these people had no hope in this crazy, crazy war that's going on. And he just went in and played music and they loved him so much for that. And then you're back there 20 something years later and he's just a god in Sarajevo so the energy is like something

I'll never be able to explain or experience I've never seen something people cry and like freak out because they hadn't seen him since and then we did this show and also we were doing this really beautiful unique show with the Concerto Orchestra doing Deep Purple and some of his own songs and the songs that would have been songs he played in the 90s when he went in and played this tiny dive club. So crowd-wise, you know, you have those special attachment type scenarios.

And especially in like, if you're in the Balkans or Eastern Europe and places like South America where they've had a harder time coming out of heavier times like that. Rock music was a big anchor for people. It's like the church of rock and roll. So the energy is pretty spectacular. And often if you're in countries that are poorer, lower income countries where it's a big deal to save up and go to a show. they're going like full on it's not like I'm going to a show this weekend this is a big deal to go to these shows so it's amazing for

us as bands to have that energy and yeah who are like like the people that you would love to play with like who are the you know the icons like who are your influences you know it's funny I the influence question is always lost on me because of how like i didn't come to music because i was inspired by i saw bass player and did you know what i mean it's not the typical but there's a couple of bands like i always always love like radio heads so unique i absolutely love their music like bands that are not necessarily in the heavy realm but have you met those guys? Have you met Radiohead? No, my friend's actually recording with them this week.

And I need to, again, they're one of those, like, you never see them anywhere. No, I know. And Colin Greenwood's one of my favorite bassers. Do they live in like Oxford or, I mean, they probably all live in different places. Yeah, I think they do. But like bands like that, I just find, because they're so different musically. But there's some, I mean, if we're talking about like, who can you bring back as well? I'd love to play with Miles Davis.

I'd love to, you know, play with a lot of bands that aren't around anymore. I love Fleetwood Mac. I also love really heavy music like Gojira and Meshuggah and stuff like that. So I'm very, there's not like one band that I can say, oh, that's my goal because I wasn't planning any of this anyway and I ended up in some pretty badass bands

and that's, if it all stopped tomorrow in music, I'm like, that was a good run. That was a pretty good run. It was pretty good. Also,

not for nothing, there aren't that many women, are there, in this world, in this subculture that are playing at the level that you're at? More now, but not a lot.

No, we're definitely, and we're all friends. There's like five of us. Are there other bass players? Yeah, there's like five women bass players and we're all friends and it's funny. So no, there's more and more, but in different genres, but it's absolutely still in the minority. Yeah, but hopefully that is changing over time, you know.

It's just by being out there and doing it, you're not normalizing it. You do see more and more young players coming up, young girls playing and it's great. Like killing it. Yeah, it's democratized it in a way, right? It's pretty wild though, seeing that level of musicianship

from these like tiny kids on the internet. You're like, oh fuck, I got to go home and practice. How often do you practice? What is the routine to stay tight? Well, coming up to a tour, I will lock myself in the room for a few weeks prior every day. Like, cause I'm usually learning a new set. So I've never heard any of Bruce's music before. So I have to go listen to it. So I have a ritual that I always do, which is I listen to the music for weeks prior, if I have the time.

This is very different if someone calls you and says, I need you tomorrow. But if I have the ideal situation, I'm listening in really good bass headphones for a couple of weeks. I'm out and about listening, listening, listening, because it has to be like in you. The music has to be internalized.

So then by the time, because I do everything by ear. So by the time I go to sit and learn it, I'll notice if there's mistakes. You're not reading sheet music. No, no. I did over the years a little bit for certain gigs, but it just hasn't, it hasn't really been needed so much. I haven't been offered. And then I just use my ear for absolutely everything.

Riverdance or whatever it is. Riverdance. Is Riverdance still touring, Riverdance or whatever it is. Riverdance. Is Riverdance still touring? Riverdance is still around. It's about to start. Oh God, I don't know. How many years? How long has this been going on?

Like 30 years? I should know this, but it's definitely the guts of 30 years. It's just, yeah. And it does its residency all the time and it's opening again in the theater in Dublin, which is wild. It's huge.

Speaking of Dublin, do you go back to Ireland much? As often as I can. As often as I can. Like on this tour, so after we do South America, and then we start in England, there's about five days in between. So I'm going to pop home, see my granny, because she's 96, and pop home and see her, see the family, spend a few days at home, and then bounce off.

So ideally in between tour runs, I can go and do a little stop off in Europe. You're not gonna make a pit stop in Greystones and jump into the Irish Sea with the lads? Every time I go, the lads are like, come on, oh my God. Steve and Dave. Maybe, you've done it, right?

I have, yeah, it's been a while. I should, I should. I always go out to them. We're talking about Steve and Dave Flynn, the happy pair of guys who've been on the show before. I mean, they've really changed Ireland's relationship with food. Big time. Almost single-handedly.

Big time. They're so influential there. Yeah, I thought it would never happen in Ireland. What is it like now? I think it's grown exponentially thanks to the lads, a lot of thanks to the lads, but it's also a small country, so it's easier to see change

when you're talking about such a small country so it's easier to see change when you're talking about such a small country it's much harder to see this in the US when you're talking about like what 330 million people versus 5 million people it's really exciting that I go home now and all like the petrol stations have even the shitty fast food everything has a vegan option um but you know it's it's a hot topic as well because we're a farming country. And, I mean, there's a whole other rabbit hole to go down, but it's a big problem that, like, the farmers aren't getting the support that they should be. And so it creates this divide between the plant-based vegan movement

and it shouldn't because there should be a unity in the middle of it all. Because it's perceived as an attack on the agrarian culture or the farmers themselves and their lifestyle. Which is absolutely not what the intention is or it should be. It should be a total unity happening there. But the way that the mainstream media and governments are often set up is to keep us divided on these issues. Are there subsidies in Ireland like there are here that are underwriting some of the animal agriculture? Yeah, I think they're not on the scale of here, but they absolutely exist. And it's, you know, I mean, here is out of control. And until we get private lobbying and

subsidies out of food and politics, I don't think we're going to have any chance. It really is, you know, the stone that's keeping us weighted down, which sucks. We should be able to see change faster in a place like Ireland. But at the same time, what's really interesting, because I've been away for so many years, when I go home, I'm starting to see this performative political thing happening in Ireland now that's kind of mimicking what's happening over here.

I didn't grow up under this umbrella of feeling that we had like a left and a right I hate the labels I hate this like sides game that politics plays but we are getting those extreme lefts and extreme rights in in Ireland now which is really weird because it's happening at the same time we're also seeing a lot of positive change but you know we it's funny because Ireland's happening at the same time, we're also seeing a lot of positive change. But, you know, it's funny because Ireland's amazing. I love being Irish. I love the banter. I miss the crack, all that. And when I say crack, I mean fun, not the drug.

But we also have, you know, a crazy corrupt political system like everywhere else. But we're small and the world sees us as like all fun and shits and giggles. But we have a lot of positive things happening in the past few years. My generation really stood up against the whole, you know, church and this institutionalized vibe that we grew up under and trying to get away from.

But the two things are happening at once. And it's kind of frustrating because you think, oh my God, the food, the change, you see it there. But then the pressure on the farmers is creating also this big fight, this infighting that's happening. I hope that it just doesn't end up making it erupt. Well, you gotta figure out a way

to pave a path forward for the farmers that is economically viable for them and respectful of how they, the tradition and the culture, like can you transition away from the way you're doing things to use that land for something better and to make that like an attractive on-ramp for them where they can take care of their families

and make a living and all of that. And until you unravel that knot and figure it out, you're asking, of course, they're gonna be defensive and interpret it as an assault on who they are or their identity. 100%. And that doesn't, nobody's gonna, that's not a recipe for change.

No, it's absolutely not. And putting like each side pressuring each other is just ridiculous. Two sides of the same coin. Like we all really want the same outcome as humans. But that's, I mean, I get really excited about things like cellular agriculture and if we could scale that up

and if that's what farmers could transition to or, you know, rewilding, obviously all this good stuff. But it has to be, like you said, it has to be incentivized. It has to monetize. It doesn't make economic sense to just ask a farmer to cull his herd down. Of course not.

It's ridiculous, especially generational farmers. It's absolutely unfair. But the way that the media sets it up, that we're always like in these two different echo chambers fighting with each other and not getting to this. It's actually the system that's skewed. The sides probably agree on more than, we're here fighting about one thing and we've 99 other things in common.

I like what you said earlier about putting yourself in a position to have conversations with people that see the world very differently from you. And you have that opportunity because you're meeting so many people and traveling all over the world. And because you're so well-traveled,

you have an appreciation for different cultures and different perspectives. And I really think that we, you know, if we wanna solve our problems, you have to figure out how to have a respectful, compassionate conversation with somebody who sees the world very differently than you. And right now, my sense is that that has really broken down

and it's a lot of people shouting at each other. Yeah, and I don't know why, I mean, I guess I do know why we do it, but I find it very exciting to talk to someone who is gonna trigger a new thought for me. Who was it that said, I don't like that man, Lincoln. I don't like that man very much, so I must get to know him.

I love that. Yeah, you could say that. I think it was Abraham Lincoln, was it? Somebody important said that. So how do you practice that? Well, I guess it all started because touring and traveling. I started to see, especially in the US, like from an outsider point of view, and I love the US.

Obviously, it's given me so many amazing opportunities and I love living here. But I started to hear so much of this negative talk about each other, the sides sides which team are you on and I never liked it and I can I'm a neutral outside source and I consider myself politically stray until someone proves that they can actually commit to completing a promise but out of sheer curiosity when I'm touring and I'm talking to people every day that are awesome amazing people like really sweet reminds me at of home, the Midwest,

the South. And then I'm coming back to New York or LA and I have friends who are bitching about people from these states. I'm like, that's so unfair. Have you ever even been there? Have you had a conversation with someone? And also you see, because if I turn on the TV in wherever, if I turn on the TV in wherever, Arkansas or Mississippi or Texas, I'm immediately seeing a different rhetoric happening and almost different news, right? And then you're in LA or San Francisco or New York and you turn on the TV and so you start to become very aware that there's a reason that people are having these very divisive debates and conversations. But then you're out and about and you're going to your gigs and your fans and people around are just amazing people. They're all lovely and they're all just going about their day-to-day lives

and they have differences of opinions. But everybody is, I believe, people are inherently kind and I believe that the system is what's keeping us divided. I'm constantly stopping people when they say mean shit like that about each other. You know, COVID just escalated so badly. And that's the reason that I left LA for a while. I was like, I can't. Suddenly people who were great friends

and loved each other last week are like, I'm never talking to that person again because they have a different opinion, whatever it was about, masks or vaccines or politics or whatever. And they just forgot that they were friends. And it just really escalated it. So I had to sort of separate myself from a lot of people in the city

and just step outside because I'm okay with people having different opinions and being at a table with people who have very different opinions, actually, because I think it's really interesting. You have to be around people with different opinions, if for no other reason than to stress test your own ideas. Practice patience with each other. Yeah, the idea that you're gonna immunize yourself against people who have a different sense of the world

creates a fragility. Like don't you wanna be robust and resilient, not just in your body and in your mind, but in the way that you interact with people and exposing yourself to people who have very different ideas and learning how to get along with them is something we should be embracing and seeking out, not avoiding and trying to isolate ourselves from.

I think that's where all the growth is actually. I think that's what we forget. It's in those conversations that both parties are gonna and I don't mean political parties but you know both it's so funny now you should be so careful with like your use of language I was laughing about this the other day because I someone asked me I'm gonna get you in trouble here I'm gonna be cancelled by everyone it's just fine someone said UK to me about Ireland. Are you from the UK? And I said, I'm from the Republic of Ireland.

I'm an Irish Republican, as in I'm from the Geographical Republic of Ireland. It is a republic, yes. Yes, it's a republic. And then they thought that I was a Republican. I was like, I didn't say either. It just got lost in this very defensive. It all went off the rails.

It was pretty funny. I was like, okay, here say either. It just got lost in this very defensive. It all went off the rails. It was pretty funny. I was like, okay, here we go. I don't know. I think that all change comes from these conversations. And I mean, your platform is amazing for that because you're bringing on so many people from different walks of life and different talk trains where a lot of the time, even in our own movement,

in the animal rights and vegan movement, which I get frustrated with all the time and that's why I kind of stay on the outskirts there's a lot of amazing people doing amazing things but there's also a lot of ego leading it the wrong path and going down these echo chambers that are just detrimental to the cause overall and I know and I understand most of it comes a lot of it comes from passion but if you let anything be led with ego you're just gonna totally fuck it up yeah I mean that's true of in every aspect of life everything I think you need change makers change agents activists and

revolutionaries and catalysts of all kinds and some people are hardwired to be a frontline, sign carrying activist who's shouting. I was. Yeah, you were. I'm really not wired for that. I try to carry the messages that are important to me in a gentler way and in a different way. But I think it's about having a diversity of voices and opinions,

but also within a community of people that feel strongly about a subject matter or a certain thing that they would like to see change or evolve in the world, that you need a diversity of voices within those communities. And then that community has to deploy its energy outward rather than focusing on themselves and, you know,

the preaching to the choir thing. Like at some point it's just, I'm not interested in spending my time, you know, talking to the people who are already on my page about a certain issue. Like, I don't know what that, I mean, it helps, it helps like the community kind of cohere and congeal and creates a sense of, you know,

belonging to something I suppose, but ultimately it becomes, you know, it doesn't serve anything other than to strengthen one's sense of allegiance to a tribe and affirm their identity, but it's not actually moving the needle in terms of any kind of real change. No, no.

And that's because a lot of the game-changing conversations can be considered a bit boring as well if it's not that kind of full-on activism. You know, there's all these spaces that are so exciting for like innovations and materials and food. And I don't know why we're not, because not everyone's going to come at this from ethics when we're talking about just like, you know, the movements we're in. And nobody wants to be condescended to or moralized. So you have to create a way forward that is attractive to somebody.

And economically and, you know, to these industries and to, you know, it has to work in the world as well for it to really be embedded and to get like, to get to like a critical mass or social tipping point with all of this. You just, you need all, like you just said, you need all the parts, like there's room for everyone at the table, but we have to, when you get, and I'm just using the vegan movement as an example because we're in it, but when you get, for instance, using the vegan movement as an example because we're in it but when you get for instance like the clean meat cellular agriculture which i think is amazing and i think it's a game changer everybody wins but you also have activists trying to take it down because one cell originally came from an animal right purity

at the cost of actually yeah changing something in a real way. And that can be really detrimental and dangerous for a movement to move forward. So it's like accepting it's progress. It's not perfection, right? It's trying to move the needle towards a social tipping point to make this a kinder world in whatever way we can. Because we all have blood in our hands.

We have iPhones. We exist in a world where it's almost impossible to have a little bit of blood in our hands. We have iPhones. We exist in a world where it's almost impossible to have a little bit of blood in your hands. But if we know and we can choose to make these decisions daily when it comes to our food and how we exist in that space, and we know, okay, well, that's how the markets work. If you send a market signal as a consumer, if I'm buying this, it's going to send a signal

that there's more demand for that. And the industries will change because I don't think that these, you know, these industries, it's not that they're nefarious and waking up every morning like, ha ha. Twirling their mustaches. Yeah, right. We're going to pull one over on the people. They exist because we fund them. They're responding to market forces. 100% and or subsidies.

So, like, you both have to change. market forces 100 and or subsidies so like you both have to change but that takes individual action which people think is too hard but individual action seems hard but then collectively it is collective action and sending as a consumer like those that's why i'm so passionate about this space because it's so easy to decide daily everything you buy is a vote with your wallet and we all work hard to earn our money and why would we spend it on this you know keeping this in existence but you know we're still looking away a lot we're really good at looking away and morally compartmentalizing these things so if we can just sort of step back and look and go, okay, even if, like I'm always encouraging people to just be plant-based a few days a week, one day a week, try it a meal a day, like give it a go. And then, you know, if people get into it, great.

But this going extreme purist on things in any movement is, you're just scaring people a lot of the time. So you're in the deep South, you're on tour. It's a long time. So you're in the deep South, you're on tour, maybe you're in Arkansas or Mississippi or rural Louisiana or something like that. And you come upon somebody and you find yourself in a conversation and suddenly this person seems curious and receptive to,

they're like, wow, this Tanya, like I've never seen anyone like Tanya before. Like, what is she, you know, what is this person all about? And then there's an opening where they're like, how do I make that lifestyle change? Like, what do you say to that person who suddenly seems receptive to doing something different? Usually something like you're already vegan

because you just, you're vegan, but you also eat meat and cheese. So I look at it, I look at these things in reverse because I always find it really funny when people say that it's hard or it's, you know, extreme because everybody eats pasta, pizza, potatoes, broccoli, fruits, veggies. I mean, if you're going to tell me you don't eat any of those things, good base to start with. So I'm like, you're already vegan. You just, you also eat meat and dairy.

So it's about kind of breaking down that, what people might think is complicated around food. But also, like I said earlier, just say, if someone's asking about, for instance, how do I eat out? Order the sides instead or try to add more veggies to every meal. But I'm not a big fan of the labels of the diet. You know, so I try to keep the buzzwords out a lot because for some reason they're a big trigger. If you're saying like vegan or vegetarian, I mean, I'm not sure why, because it's literally about being kind to animals. I don't know why it got tagged

with like the tagline of a being extreme choices. It was all that blood you were throwing all over people back in the day, Tanya, it's your fault. It's my fault, I'm very sorry. At least I got it out of my system young, I'm sorry. But what about the why when somebody is like, well, explain to me like why I should care about this or why I should do this?

Like, obviously it's working for you. You seem really healthy and energetic and you have this amazing career and you seem happy and you care about this. Like, why should I care about this? Yeah, well, sometimes you're gauging, like if a person's trying to come at something from a health perspective, if they have a very obvious health issue,

of course you can go with the, we know like the science is stunningly clear that there's a serious benefit for heart disease diabetes hypertension you know all these the obvious things but if it's not a health thing then maybe it's animals maybe it's well do you really love animals have ever looked into what you know mass animal agriculture actually looks like and what factory farming looks like because you know people are go I get grass fed like it's funny that everybody's saying they get grass fed when it's very small very very minimal percentage that actually is so you're I guess you're trying to gauge what the person is curious

about is it their own health or is it maybe they love animals but the cool thing about the whole plant-based umbrella it's about the closest thing to a panacea we have because you look at ocean acidification, rainforest deforestation, antibiotic resistance, zoonotic diseases. Like there's no real negative to shifting towards this because for your own health, obviously the health of the planet and then all these ripple effects that it has out, surely one of these things speaks to you. Do you do have children like this is what we're doing to the planet and their generation is going to be affected by this the planet's going to be fine you know I hate when you get the sort of performative activism of save save the planet of course we all want to save the planet but the planet's going to

be fine um but whether or not we want to exist here in in a on a healthy planet while we're here and your kids and their kids so you know I often talk to to older families who have two and three generations that like by the you know they're starting to shift toward plant-based because they saw oh wow the soil like you know places and I was talking to a farmer and his family in Kansas a couple years ago and he was telling me the story of how it was when his granddad was on the land and how different it was by the time he had to work under the contracts for Big Agri and they're tied into using these specific you know fertilizers and pesticides the soils changed the food changed the financial system structure changed for his family and then he's like I don't want

to pass this down to my son and their kids so they were starting to kind of think about shifting but a lot of you know the information is being kept away so I really like getting into it just depends on where the person is coming from if someone's asking you from a health perspective I'm like go listen to Rich Roll and Simon Hill. Or read these books. But that's the really cool thing about this whole sort of movement per se. There's a positive no matter what way you're looking at it. There's really no negatives that we've yet to find.

It is interesting that what's good for the microcosm is good for the macrocosm. What's good for the body is also in the interest of the planet and future generations. It's not about perfection. Of course, choices that we make are going to create downstream consequences as a result of being something that has to consume in order to live.

But can you make the kinder, gentler choice? And as it turns out, actually serves your own physical health. And it's taking a positive vote for the planet as well in the future generation. So I love the way you characterize that. It like checks all these boxes at once, but in terms of how you carry the message

or speak to people, trying to figure out what their values are and what they care about, I think is where you find the opening. It's important, because we can't all just attack each other because I believe this and you believe that, so you must be wrong or they think you must be wrong. You were never to get anywhere.

Well, wait, do you see the comments on this video and YouTube underneath of people shouting about? Oh yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure, you know, at a certain point, you just get a seriously thick skin. You're like, I came here to hear about Tanya, the bassist and heavy metal. And I got a dollop of the vegan world.

I didn't ask for that. I will say, I wish the word didn't have to exist because I wish none of us needed labels and I wish it was just normal to try to live as kindly as possible as we're here. I feel like the labeling of each other is... So I'm with you on the vegan comments in the vegan comments section. That's a whole other tangent on Keyboard Warriors and this thing that we do of like, would this person say it to your face? That's why conversation is so, and really having conversations with people

that you don't think completely different. And music is the great unifier that transcends all of that and brings people together. Do you know Maggie Baird? Of course, Maggie's awesome. So I was thinking like, could you enlist like support and feed on the tour in the way that she does for Billy when Billy's touring?

I would love to, I must actually ask Maggie about that. I haven't talked to her in a little while. We did one of her live, it's really fun cooking work on Instagram when the signal's not working properly. I'd love to do something like that. And actually Bruce had said, I don't know if we'll be able to implement much

on this first round because we're kind of testing the waters, but he's very interested in like environmental ways to like, what can we do that's less impactful? Like when we're in certain countries, we can take trains instead of, you know, because traveling is obviously nowhere near the impact of food impact,

but I'd love to enlist and start to, that's a big passion for me is connecting the right people, like connecting people who think. Yeah, you got to talk to Maggie. Yeah, it'd be amazing. Like right away. Yeah, that'd be really, really cool.

But I think, I don't know if they're doing it in the state, just doing it in the stadiums with just Billy at the moment, or if they've, I think they were doing something with Coldplay as well, actually. I'm not sure.

I must ask her, but it's so interesting. But I would love to, that's the thing you're always trying to gauge. Like it's one thing for me to bring in the backstage to be mostly plant-based or, you know,

I'm bringing the bands out. Right, but how do you take that out of the backstage and into the experience of the people that are attending the show? That's the cool thing though, the one, when I dabble with the whole,

well, I just delete social media because I kind of hate it thing. But when the cool thing though, the one, when I dabble with the whole I just delete social media because I kind of hate it thing. But when you have fans from all these bands you work with over the years that follow you for music, usually, and then they actually start to see

about the food or the projects that you're doing and the work with the non-profits or whatever, that's really cool because that's a way of of showing because people want people get interested in what what do you do day to day when you're not on stage so it's kind of the way a good way of using your platform just living living your life honestly on

social media which is these days you know not the way you're going to monetize anyway no um yeah you got to keep that stuff at arm's length yeah i'm constantly being asked to do like brand shout outs and that and i can't do anything because when i i do a lot of due diligence on anything i get involved in and it's so funny nothing nothing lives up to your standards well it's i'm hardly gonna i think a lot of people would want to know about the beauty routine? There's not really one. I'm very lazy. I'm pretty lazy. I mean, I don't even know what that looks like because I just like water and moisturizer are what I answer to that question all the time. Not enough sleep, too much coffee and veggies. But we don't have that same culture in Ireland. I didn't grow up under like an obsessive

sort of aesthetic beauty like regimen for women it was you know I grew up very just playing out in the dirt and I guess I kind of became a bit more of a stage persona in what I do but I try to avoid the obsession of all of that and just stay healthy and I really believe that like when people ask me what do you do what's your, like when they frame it in the beauty regime thing, I'm like, I think it's internal. It's what you eat. It's staying hydrated.

Like I drink a lot of herbal tea. I drink a lot of water and I eat clean, whole foods, plant-based, fast majority of the time. So I think that maybe helps keep me put together somewhat. Maybe. There might be a connection there.

Maybe. I don't know because I tell you what, if I didn't eat this way and practice this way of living, I think I would have fallen apart on the road by now because I've seen it so many times. A crew, especially crew, like older crew have been on the road forever and they all have diabetes or they have hypertension and they're eating fast food and drinking, you know, fizzy drinks all day. And it's very hard to live like that. And I would hate to feel that crap on the road because it's hard enough to be on the go every day for three or four months at a time. It's amazing how many bands that were huge in the, you know, 80s and 90s now are having this, you know, success touring and these guys are in their 70s, you know? And it's forcing them to be healthy.

Yeah, yeah. Because there's so much money at stake too. Like, you know, it's sort of like, do you wanna keep doing this? All right, well, you're gonna have to, you know, let go of that, you know, notion that you have about what rock and roll is in order to do it. It's pretty funny.

You get like Tommy Aldridge, Whitesnake drummer. Tommy's in his 70s. He's amazing. But he's been cycling every day since he was in his teens. So you've got the guys that always were healthy and then you've got the ones who went hardcore rock and roll and had to do a 180 to get out of it. Right, and redo it.

Yeah. So now backstage looks very different. Who's the healthiest person in heavy metal? Me. Good for you. No, I don't know. There's a lot, you know, the thing is, and I always- Do you know this band Parkway Drive?

No of them, but I don't know them. Yeah, so Ben Gordon is the drummer. I know him, they're an Australian band from Byron Bay. And Ben is like a major wellness warrior, meditator, super clean. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot. The thing that always surprises people, it's funny because metal and heavy rock can quite often be associated with this like satanic, like what are they doing? Like not so much these days, but people would have always thought, you know, they must be just eating cheeseburgers and drinking whiskey and whatever but actually the roots of a lot like punk and all that is is literally about fuck the system

yeah like that's where it comes from and that so whatever the status quo that you're you're fighting against that like straight edge yeah true it has that also that um and the kind of vegan macrobiotic yeah sort of affiliation that came from bad brains and the like, but heavy metal doesn't really have that same. A lot of metalers though, it's always like, there's a lot of metal bands that are vegan. Like they're all like, I don't know what, I guess it's that, it is a subculture of like questioning the system.

And it's surprising, like even the likes of Derek and, you know, Doyle and all these guys that are absolutely 100% like vegan and in this heavy metal world. It's confusing to the brain for people. It's funny because it doesn't seem to fit together. You think they're going to, you know, chew the head off a bat or some crazy ship. Just broccoli mostly. I want to ask you about Bob. Who is this guy Bob that you're making a movie about?

Can you talk about that? A little bit. Bob's going to be either kill me or love that he got a shout out. Bob is my neighbor and he is now family basically. I'll say a little bit about it because it's very much in its infancy stage. It's a documentary I'm going to be working on with veterans. And we're just, we're shooting some like trailer now and fundraising for it because it's a massive issue that's come across my radar one too many times to ignore

where I've had a lot of veterans in my life over the years and crew. And I had two partners over the years that had really chronic PTSD. And I had this situation happen with my neighbor, Bob, where he had a lot of loss happen almost two years ago now, a year and a half, two years ago. And at the same time, I was going through a lot and I just moved into this small town and we became very close very quickly over a lot of life trauma that happened in a short space of time.

And when I saw the lack of resources yet again for a veteran to not only with mental health, but just support in general. I started to wonder if like, other than, you know, feeding him, which was really funny because Bob calls me a vegin and he thinks it's witchcraft. He's a 75 year old Vietnam veteran and he's a wonderful character, amazing man. You know, he started to get a bit more curious about the food side of it and how that could maybe help him feel better. Obviously, physically is one thing. So I wanted to maybe just get a group of his friends who typically just it's kind of, I guess, an old fashioned thing. You know, they just eat a

certain way or their wives cook for them. And Bob lost his wife and his son in one day. And he also had this trauma from before. He's a Vietnam veteran, so obviously that comes with its own battles. But I wanted to see, it was never supposed to escalate to what's happening now. If we could just go shopping and teach some guys who haven't been self-sufficient or healthy before. And then, well, let's start documenting it. It might be fun I asked him if he'd want to and he was keen and curious so we just started messing around with

this idea of maybe do a documentary and then I started talking to a couple of people in our space about it was like oh okay that could be really fun I thought you know what it's one thing to do a media project and Bob being a catalyst of a story of many many veterans who have the same frustration where there's not a lot of resources for you come back from one war and then you're fighting this whole other war for yourself, which is, you know, I can't, none of us can even comprehend that level of having to deal with all this. We know with the plant-based food movement that a lot of these diseases, they shouldn't be having to battle on top of everything else. diseases they shouldn't be having to battle on top of everything else. So the idea initially is to get a group of veterans and do, you know, sort of a, I don't want to call it a transformation, but like a health transformation per se to see if we can help with these foodborne diseases. But also in the background, I think it's important to have really, really strong

science to back it up. So I want to do a study as well. So we do a larger scale study. So I've been going around, like I was talking to Professor Gardner last week in want to do a study as well. So we do a larger scale study. So I've been going around, like I was talking to Professor Gardner last week. Christopher Gardner is involved. I spoke to him last week about it. It's just very, very early phases of like, what's the best way to approach this? That it's not just a media project

and it's not about, you know, that kind of Hollywood side of doing a movie about a thing. That this is really hopefully going to impact in the long run and have a massive like ripple out effect into the VA system and because there is actually a lot of incredible food clinics sort of the infrastructure is in place these lifestyle clinics but they're not really bubbling yet because there's not enough eyes on it and there's not enough people leaning into that side so you've got you've got a lot of people fighting to make this work in

this space but I just have come across this story way too many times at veterans and I wanted to again figure out like how can I use my connections my platform and bring together some storytelling which we know storytelling is very powerful and when everything happened with Bob and you know he he became an inspiration for me too as well about I talk about being tough like these guys are tough anyway but so I'm basically in the very very early phases of putting this into a media project and also hopefully a mass study so that we can walk away with, you know, bulletproof data that will hopefully save the lives of a lot of veterans in controlling these diseases that there's just no need for people to be battling things like diabetes and obesity and hypertension

these days, like when we know we have the solution here, but also with a massive focus on mental health. And with that, I want to lean into the gut health because obviously gut health and brain health are intrinsically tied. So having experts from all these fields come on board to really look into this, because obviously we're not saying that if you eat this way, you're going to cure PTSD. That's ridiculous. But you're certainly going to feel better. And that's a step towards healing in a more profound way and bringing in experts in mindfulness, in neurology and everything to try to help

this hugely underserved demographic in the US and worldwide. But it's like when you start to look into the numbers here, it's absolutely terrifying. That's quite beautiful. What a worthy investment of your time and your energy. You have this guy, Bob, who can be this protagonist and put a face on a much larger problem, which is the ways, the many ways in which veterans

are suffering and falling through the cracks and not getting the resources and the help that they need. And they're just one subset of a larger, more chronic issue or more broader issue around chronic health concerns, mental health and physical health. And the idea that you would tend to care for these veterans in that way. Like I think is something everyone wants to see

and it's a problem everyone would want to see solved. And it's complicated because how do you help somebody take care of themselves better in a physical way if they have PTSD or these mental health things that are real barriers to self-care and other aspects of your life. Like you have to untangle all of those knots in order to solve the problems.

Yeah, it is a bit of a behemoth and like it's sad. Like it's interesting because I come from a totally on military, we have a military, neutral military but we're i don't have this background in it but because i just jumped in so heavy into the u.s and it's so intense here the whole military presence and you know everyone's family almost has a veteran in it and you're just seeing it more and more the desert by 29 palms there's got to be a lot of veterans and like biker dudes yeah and it's so interesting

because I literally live by the biggest military base in the world in 29 Palms I was in there for the first time the other day because I'm starting

to just like put the feelers out and talk to people about who might be interested in being involved because the same frustrations but it's really funny because you know

people are set in their ways anyway like get military young military guys as well that are just like super regimented about things. But that can be very positive if it's for healthy, you know, if they're taking those habits and applying it to a healthy approach.

But it's amazing to me to go into somewhere that spends so much money on like precision training and like creating these machines of disciplined men. And then you go to the chow hall and they're being fed absolute shit. Yeah. I mean, that's across the board. I went to the Olympic Training Center. Hopefully it's different now, but the food that they were serving there, I couldn't believe it to, you know, the most elite athletes. Yeah. And it's the same in schools. Like this isn't just applied to, you know, you see a lot of the school system. It's cool now you're seeing it roll out in the hospitals in New York

that they're changing to default plant-based, but prisons, everything like, this is something I'd love to dive into across a lot of different, it's not just military. Like I hate that this is the same in the prison system. It's awful. Like, you know, of course we get these recidivism rates

because there's just no real education being pumped in or real good food or training. It's awful. You know, of course, we get these recidivism rates because there's just no real education being pumped in or real good food or training. It's a mess. The whole thing is a bit of a mess. It's like, how can we try to have a bit of a positive domino effect over here? So with the military as well, knowing like with Bob and all these friends, because a lot of crew in the music industry come from our ex-military. They find themselves in the music industry

because it's the closest thing to what they're used to deployment. You're in motion still, right? So you get a lot of crew. And so I keep seeing this pattern. And it's just so sad that when they do reach out for help, like some cases, some states have great clinics and great resources, but a lot is just overwhelmed and underfunded. And a lot of the guys will get frustrated that,

obviously, it's beautiful to hear and be told, thank you for your service most places you go. But the action then after the statement is not happening in a lot of cases, and they have enough to be dealing with. So if we can use unlikely connections and use storytelling and try to catalyze something positive for this demographic, because when you start, like the numbers in the US are crazy with how many, it's like in the 70 percentile of families have a veteran in their direct family or one degree of separation. And that's, you know,

affecting them and their families and then a lot of the community as well as bikers and stuff which is really great because I love the biker community because it's got this camaraderie about it already and and these guys who you know fought together and were way together deployed there's this intense community and brotherhood so a lot of the the support and infrastructure for a project like this is already there amongst themselves which is is exciting to see and it's just it's just like how can we bring in experts in their field so there's a lot of great doctors lined up for it which I'm excited about and honored that they've said yes and you know the doctors are excited because we haven't

really tapped into this space before and professors and specialists in all walks of life to to see if we can actually do something that is not just a story but that after the fact after the movie or whatever is made that it continues to ripple out and actually change a system to help to help these veterans long term that's so cool yeah i saw alan desmond and jim and newman in your deck. Yeah, I love them. As doctors. Yeah, and Columbus, Batiste. And we've actually got a couple of great people coming on board, Garth Davis.

Oh, Garth too, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And so you're just raising funds, right? You're like doing a- In the fun time, the fundraising part of it, which when I start all these projects, I'm like, oh, I fucking hate this part.

Everybody hates fundraising, but it's part of it, you know, and I think it's a worthy cause. So my usual stress is that I get these massive ideas right before I go on tour. So I have to try to get as much work done on the foundations of the project and then go on tour for a few months and then come back and hit it in the pockets when I'm off tour. Because I have to keep present in the music industry. Like I would go down a rabbit hole and just work on this all day long and work on anything that's like impact project related. But I do have to honor my career in the music industry and stay present enough to have the platform and obviously tour. So it's trying to find that balance of being on tour enough to stay, you know, relevant in my industry and have that platform.

And obviously I love touring, but then as soon as I'm off the road and I'm working on it all the time while I'm on the road as well. But I'm just in that phase now of, yeah, getting the sort of the roots together and the fundraising and all that fun stuff. That's cool.

You're somebody who shows up. I think that's a big piece in your success or your trajectory. Like you know how to show up. Thank you. I think that's the only way we should. You know, as an activist, as a musician, like, you know, to come to America and figure it out

and like make your way and like build this thing. I think showing up is a big part of it. You have to. I mean, how else are you going to get anything done, right? It's scary. It's scary at times. And sometimes I question my own decisions to take on behemoth projects like such. But I mean, that's what we're here for, right? It's just trying to pay it forward in some shape or form. Of course, I could just tour and come home and do nothing, but I feel like I would just, I would not be happy inside if I wasn't paying it forward in some shape or form

and giving back, because that's kind of the whole point of being human, right? I think I wanna end this with some thoughts about achieving a dream. Like you came here with a dream, like a lot of people, and you made it happen. You're making it happen. Like you're manifesting these projects and these ideas into the world. So if somebody is listening to this and they have a dream, but they're confused about how to begin or where to start, like what is the message that you share with young people

or other people who are like, how do I do what you do or their version of what you do? Following what excites you for sure is something to check in with yourself on because if everything you're doing, if there's no like excitement in there, it's not pushing you a bit. So I've always kind of think,

yeah, like sit down and think what excites you. Because there's a lot of buzz around this internet generation now of finding your purpose. And you don't always just know that. I've known that since I was a little girl. I'm lucky that I sort of seen my path like that. So that's somewhat easier when you already know.

But just a way to try and figure that out is sort of sitting with yourself and what really excites me what lights me up like when I think about a project that might help all these people it's like that really fucking excites me and that could be even if I fail at it I'll give it a shot you know um and then just like we were saying earlier just the audacity to try and do something that seems ridiculous and outside of comprehension at the time, because I never would have guessed that this is what I would end up doing, not in a million years.

What did you think you would be doing? I thought I'd be a marine biologist or a vet, but when I realized that- There's still time if you want to do that. There's still time. I might do that, you know, after this next tour I'll study. Or, you know, I want to study philosophy.

I love philosophy and all that. So, but that's the thing. It's also like not freaking out about, you can have all these chapters in life. So, and it's absolutely okay to fail. So with music, because it's really difficult in the music industry. I get people all the time asking like,

should I move to LA? Should I do that? It's hard for me to answer that with a straight yes or no because it's really hard and I kind of caught the last wave of the sunset strip having the jam lights and that it's kind of gone now and this whole pay to play so I can't say yeah you're going to come out you're going to make it but you should come out and see if you're if you can cut your tea because it's it's pretty hard industry so there's the just try and then I've said actually speaking of philosophy it was a Goethe the German philosopher said uh whatever you can do or

believe you can do begin it um boldness has greatness magic and power in it just begin it and I love that because it's what's the worst that can happen I always thought that with like going up to a musician to ask about a jam night or going out to try and fundraise for a project, whatever it is, it's like, I'm just going to try. I'm just going to ask these people to see if they want to be involved or if I can do this,

because if they say no, my ego will take a bit of a hit, but I'll get over it, you know? And no regrets. It's that reflex to action. No regrets, Rich. You know, the classic tattoo. No regrets. I'm sorry. Do you have that tattoo? It's that reflex to action. No regerts, right? You know, the classic tattoo. No regerts.

Do you have that tattoo? Oh, I've been tempted to get it so many times. I'd love a no regerts tattoo. I think that can be arranged. Just talk to Toby. There you go. He'll hook you up. Yeah, yeah.

Well, this was great. Thank you. You're an inspiration. I love getting to know you a little bit better. Thank you. You're a powerful presence in the world and the way that you show up in your art and in your advocacy is really laudable.

So I appreciate you coming and sharing your path. That means a lot coming from you. Thank you very much for having me. If people wanna learn more about you or perhaps they wanna maybe throw you a few bucks for the documentary or get involved or if somebody's listening to this who's in that world and wants to connect with you, like where, where can you send these people? Yeah, I mean, I'm really only active on social media wise on Instagram.

So it's just Tanya O'Callaghan underscore official. I'm there. But first, I'll be setting up some stuff over the coming months regarding the project, but you can reach me through my website. So on my own website, which is just my name, tanyocallaghan.com, you can email through there. And yeah, when we really start ramping up on this project, I'll definitely be setting up some type of, hopefully a fundraiser or internally trying to raise funds

through the philanthropic movement. So anyone's interested in helping with veterans, there's definitely a project coming up that needs it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. How many cities are you hitting with Bruce? God, we must. We're doing, I think we're doing 40-something shows.

So, yeah, we got about 40. All North America? No, South America first. So we're starting in, yeah, we go down. We start in Mexico and then head through Brazil. And then after that, we go, I think we're doing nine nine or ten cities in Brazil Brazil is huge I was just there doing another tour and speaking thing it's so funny like no matter how many times you go it's so big but yeah we do South America first and then we do we go England up and down England and then we go across

uh Europe and we land in Greece so you are doing doing all the festivals in Europe over the summer. Yeah. So we're already all these text chains of like musician friends. Are you going to be there on the Friday or the Sunday or the Saturday? We're chasing each other's tails too. Right on. We'll have fun. Thank you. And go out and make that movie and then come back and talk to me about it. I would be

honored. Alright. Thanks, Tonya. Thank you. Peace. Plants. That's it for today. Thank you for listening. I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn more about today's guest, including links and resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at richroll.com, where you can find the entire podcast archive, as well as podcast merch, my books, Finding Ultra, Voicing Change in the Plant Power Way, as well as the Plant Power Meal Planner at meals.richroll.com. If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and on YouTube and leave a review and or comment. Supporting the sponsors who support the show is also important and appreciated.

And sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends or on social media is, of course, awesome and very helpful. And finally, for podcast updates, special offers on books, the meal planner, and other subjects, please subscribe to our newsletter, which you can find on the footer of any page at richroll.com. Today's show was produced and engineered by Jason Camiolo with additional audio engineering by Cale Curtis. The video edition of the podcast was created by Blake Curtis with assistance by our creative director, Dan Drake. Portraits by Davey Greenberg. Graphic and social media assets courtesy of Daniel Solis. Thank you, Georgia Whaley, for copywriting and website management.

And of course, our theme music was created by Tyler Pyatt, Trapper Pyatt, and Harry Mathis. Appreciate the love, love the support. See you back here soon. Peace. Plants. Namaste. Thank you.