The Rich Roll Podcast - Postcards From Paris: Cody Simpson & Katie Hoff

Episode Date: August 2, 2024

Direct from Paris, Rich joins former RRP guests 2x Olympian Katie Hoff, and global singer-songwriter star turned Olympic hopeful Cody Simpson talks big dreams, finding himself, and lessons learned from sport and stage. Plus the latest on the swimming competitions, what it's like behind-the-scenes at the games -- and tons more. Watch on YouTube Browse all episodes of The Rich Roll Podcast at: https://www.richroll.com/all-episodes/ Meal Planner: For customized plant-based recipes 👉meals.richroll.com Check out all of the amazing discounts from our Sponsors 👉 richroll.com/sponsors Find out more about Voicing Change Media at voicingchange.media and follow us @voicingchange

The Rich Roll Podcast. Postcards from Paris, episode two. Back with Katie Hoff. Yes. Two-time Olympian and a very special guest today. We've got Cody Simpson in the house, friend, friend of the podcast. Two-time Rich Roll Podcaster.

That's right. Second appearance on the show. Two-time Rich Roll podcaster. That's right. Second appearance on the show. That's worth putting on the bio. That's on the resume now. A little bit of a different setting. The first time you were gracious enough to allow me entrance into your home when I was on the Gold Coast.

And I appreciate you taking the time to do this today, man. Thanks, man. Yeah, man, I was just staying up the road from here, so easy to swing by. That's right. And we just figured out we're staying sort of near each other in a certain part of Paris. Five blocks away, yeah, yeah.

What has your experience been like? How long have you been in Paris? I've been here for maybe five or six days. I was in the South France before this. I noticed that. Just having a little luck. Living your best life down there. As per Instagram, I'm there right now.

I know. I noticed you shared something there and I was like, did he leave Paris and come back? No, I was just sharing after the fact. Yeah. I was like, I took, well, I was so busy just doing, busy doing nothing, but taking photos. And it's like, I'll just share them all later

because I had so many good little clips and stuff. And it's just beautiful down there. So I said, I'll just look back at it all after the fact and pretend I'm there a couple of weeks after I really was. Well, you look good. You look happy. Thanks. It's fun to be in Paris.

We were saying the other day, like up in the area in the neighborhoods like where you and I are staying, it's unbelievably quiet. You wouldn't even know that the Olympics are happening. There's less people than there would be ordinarily this time of year in terms of like tourists. I'm doing a lot of bike riding.

Like I tell them getting around, cause it's so easy and it's kind of hot. So it's nice to just get the breeze. So I've just been bicycling around all day. And it's empty. Like late afternoon, I was finding just streets that were just deserted. Yeah, it's not a morning city. No, no.

Yeah, so it's kind of nice. And yeah, I've wanted to live over here for a long time. And I sort of am now scouting areas I may look at spending a bit of time in because I just, I love this city for some reason. It's inspiring. It's creatively inspiring. Yeah, it's creatively inspiring.

It's got so much history, you know, literary wise, music wise, art wise. Which begs the obvious next question. We'll get into it more, but like, are we complete with our swimming career? Are you gonna continue? Are you getting back into music? What does it look like?

Is that too early of a question? It's hard. Like I'm only maybe six weeks removed from our trials. So I'm like, for the time being, I say yes, but it's like so much changed from four years ago to now. And so life is so unpredictable, right? Like I just don't know what will happen over the next four years and where life's going to take me in that sense. But I do have a lot of creative and

musical sort of endeavors and ambitions I'm interested in, in pursuing between sort of now and then and where, and if swimming fits into that again, you know, I'm just going to give it at least till sort of the end of the year to not force myself to, um to think about it too hard. Yeah. I wanted to take a little break. Yeah. Well, like I said, you earned it. Yeah. I would suspect that you being the creative person that you are, it must feel great to not be exhausted all the time or to have the daunting. And then suddenly all that creative energy now, you know, can find its expression. Yeah. I don't know if you, if you noticed this Katie, but when you stopped like realizing how much time you had in the day for like other, other things,

because you weren't just like training for three hours in the morning and then sleeping, eating and training in the afternoon. Well, and you also feel like you're like, oh my gosh, I have energy again. Like you don't realize how tired you are when you're training. Cause you're just like, well, like this is just how I'm supposed to feel and I'm going to grind through it. But when you stop, you're like, I want to go on a walk.

I want to go on a random bike ride. Like I used to hate walking because it just meant that I was more tired for training, but I've walked all around Paris and it's so fun, but it's not fun when you're training at all. And in those long blocks, you almost get used to it. You just accept it. You don't know any different

because you've been under for so long. Even though you went through that extended period when you weren't doing it and went back into it, you forgot what it felt like when you were just a normal civilian. Yeah, I forgot. And it was probably only those couple weeks of the year where you do a taper

or you have like a little break that you realize what it feels like to be normal even being. You're like, I'm me again. Like holy shit, yeah. And for me that came in creativity and like ideas and stuff because I was just so mentally zapped all the time

where I would never have any ideas. Yeah. How much does that affect you? Cause I'm not, I was telling him, I am not a creative. So did you find the shift? Like, were you able to create or compose or do anything when you were doing, you know, training five hours a day? No, no.

At all? Very, very rarely. I'd have glimpses of it. Interesting. But often, especially when it was, you know, you were really kind of grinding, like I didn't have much time or much energy or time, I suppose, because I think creativity needs space. Like you almost need to be sitting alone for like four hours before anything can happen.

Anything worthwhile can happen. And I just, we've never had that time. Like that was, you'd be napping or sleeping or, you know, or training. So it was just, it was huge, like stopping and then just getting that, that burst of, you know, it was like the floodgates opened again. Just like, I can write songs, I can do whatever I want. And I'm not tired and I can stay up till midnight and like, I feel fine.

It's hilarious, yeah. My schedule over here has been, I've been sleeping from like one till nine instead of eight till five or whatever. Right, right. You're like, wow, life just opened up again yeah I can see you living in Paris cruising around on a bike I love these songs I love it yeah nice yeah and how has it been um to to attend the meet obviously you're here you know supporting Emma yeah um but in the

wake of you know kind of falling a little bit short of the dream that you had set for yourself of making the team. You know, there's obviously that always going to be that sense of, I wish I could have been here and doing this in the pool, but, like, I am proud and excited to be here in another capacity supporting her. Like, you know know I didn't feel going to the pool and watching finals like I wasn't upset or anything I was just I was like excited for her and for the other guys like because it is what it is you know like you can't change it after the fact like you you have to be there and enjoying yourself and she you know for

her it's like a huge moment and you know me being her partner is like you know it's almost like I'm feeling those same nerves and excitement for her as she would be for herself so um and I had like I think if I hadn't really done everything I could to get the most out of myself I'd probably feel different. But after the trials, like, even though there was a sense of disappointment, which then actually is, you know, there was also a sense of peace. Cause I was like, I don't know.

You did everything you could. I was like, yeah, for those final, especially those final six months, it's like, I was so dialed in in every capacity that I just looked back and even upon really meticulous examination of like, you know, because I think sometimes if you do foreshadow, you like look back and try and see, okay, what kind of a, I've done. And I couldn't find, I couldn't find anything significant enough to like, you know, stress over.

Like a shoulda, coulda kind of thing. I was like, okay, well, that's that, you know, like there's peace in that and there's pride in that too because you've like done everything you could. So I was like, okay, well, I can leave this with peace because like I did everything I could. I find that so refreshing because I don't think there's many athletes that, like I know when I didn't make the team in 2012, I couldn't have imagined flying over to London and watching.

So like, has it helped having a new focus with Emma? Like if you were to come over here without being focused on her, do you think you'd have the same thought and peace? I think if I wasn't, no, probably not. Like, well, yes and no. I think being able to watch her fulfill that, you know, her last games and, you know,

have already been on the podium and everything is like, has helped for sure. Cause I feel like that sense of pride for her and excitement for her. And I feel like that sense of pride for her and excitement for her. And it definitely like eases that, that, uh, you know,

wishing and wanting. I was obviously, you know, as a competitive athlete, like you look at the pool and you want to, you want to get in, you know, and you wish you had the chance to get in,

but you know, you can't change it. So yeah. For people that are listening or watching who don't know who Emma is, she just won her 12th Olympic medal. Is that correct? And how many golds? Yeah, that's her sixth gold.

Six golds. So she's now eclipsed the record that she shared with Ian Thorpe, I think. Yeah, yeah, for golds. Most golds. For Australians, yeah. And most medals also she has, right? Yeah, yeah, she already had that, I think,

but I think now she was tied with Ian for most golds at the Olympics, and I think now she has one more, something like that. Right, right. So most decorated Australian Olympian of all time. And how does she weather weather that pressure and how, how do you show up as a support system for her? Yeah. Well, she holds herself to the utmost standard, right?

And so nothing's ever enough for her and, or at least won't be till she stops. And I think has some perspective and goes, I actually did all right. I was pretty good. And I'm sure you felt that way, like stopping, like during it, when you're in it, it's like you want more. And then it's not until you're slightly removed from it and you can look in the rear view and go, I actually came, did a fair bit there, you know? Yeah. We were just talking about that with Elizabeth Beisel, to be able to sit at the pool or sit at the opening ceremonies.

That's the first time you realize like, wow, I was like, I was, I was pretty awesome at this. But the big problem that, that you two were having is that the times are really slow this year. Right. So they're like, you're like thinking about, I could, I would have been, I would have held up in that way. Don't tell me you're not looking at that thinking.

Yeah, you know, yeah. You that thinking. Yeah, you know. You're not going to not, you know. Of course. Yeah, I don't mean, that means I would have done this. But yeah, I don't know. I think the pool's shallow or something. This is the thing, right? There's been some fast times though, but.

A couple, but by and large, like the mean or the average. Yeah, for everyone being at that peak, it should have been a little bit faster. Yeah, they're slow. Something like the slowest Olympics in since when? Somebody was saying the 90s, was that you? Don't put that on me. No, it wasn't you.

Yeah, it was you. In terms of like records and like. Yeah, I was just looking at, I think at one of the events, it was just like what it took to make it back top eight. Those are the same times that like in the 90s for certain events, which is wild. But then you look at, I mean, you've swum in shallow pools. Like it is more choppy, it is more wavy.

So there is validity to it. I just didn't realize how much different. The press finally picked up on this like a day or day and a half ago. It seems like it might be a couple of tenths of a lap. Okay. So for people that don't know, the pool is about two meters deep. And it's meant to, generally it's three meters deep.

So I think the exact numbers is it's supposed to be 2.8 meters and it's 2.2 meters. I see. Which- It's 0.6 of a meter. So it's not quite the differential that I thought, but it is shallow and the swimmers aren't complaining, like coming off, especially like coming off the walls.

Guys that do a lot of underwater and that being a big part of their race. They can't get deep enough. Like they can't get under the way wake as well or can't like pitch deep enough and come out. And those cameras on those tracks on the bottom too. I didn't really notice it until the backstroke, like they did the underwater shot where the backstrokers jump in. And a lot of them were jumping in and immediately touching the bottom.

Oftentimes, you won't get to the bottom when you jump in because it's deeper. So I was like, oh, I didn't realize how shallow it was until I saw those clips. But I don't know how much slower it is, but it's deeper. So I was like, oh, I didn't realize how shallow it was until I saw those clips. But I don't know how much slower it is, but it's definitely been, because often by now at an Olympics with everyone in this kind of form, you usually see- World record.

A couple of world records. At least one, we haven't seen one. Yeah, not a single one. The pool is interesting. I went to finals for the first time the other night and I had never been to an Olympic competition before. So I don't know how it compares to the other venues, but it is a bit strange.

Like you, it's a rugby stadium, right? Yeah. I think it's a rugby stadium that they built a pool in. And you have to, there's so many different entrances and they're all kind of siloed off. So once you go in, you go up these stairs and you're kind of stuck in your section. So there isn't like a lobby kind of area

where everyone's gathering and like you see people and stuff like that. It's not like a traditional arena. You don't have that. And then even if you have really good seats, they're set back so far from the pool that even the best seats, like the pool is still really far away.

Yeah, I was sort of fortunate enough the other night to be front row, like behind the starting blocks, but there's a good 25 meters between that row and the starting blocks. And like, you couldn't even, you couldn't even really see, you know, the actual race happening. It was cool because you felt part of it, but you couldn't really, you know, from a spectator's point of view, like, yeah. But that's even rare. Like, I don't think I've ever been to a meet, I don't think ever where you're on the floor. Have you?

No, no. Like to be able to be like kind of at like a tennis match or something like that's super rare, which I thought was like the fact that I think I saw a video, you got to hug. Yeah, you were like on the floor. Emma, right after, like that's incredible. Literally on the floor, yeah.

Which was pretty cool. Yeah, but I'd never seen that before either. Yeah. I think the venue is cool. I like the venue personally. You like it? People are saying- The swimmers like it? What is the team saying?

Sorry. Oh no, I was just saying that people are saying like that they feel like it's more like a world championships because it's so small and intimate. But I feel, I'm like, I love that it's small and intimate because I think it makes it louder. I think it makes it less intimidating, but we're also all coming off of US trials,

which was at the Lucas Oil Stadium. So I think we got spoiled at Olympic trials. Yeah. I don't know or remember, like I went and watched it in Rio, but that's the only other Olympic swimming event I've been to. So I don't know how it measures up to, you might know better than me, what the crowd sizes were back in like Beijing and stuff. I don't remember. Like, I don't know what those were like. I don't know numbers. I mean, Beijing, I think it was like

15,000, but it was definitely like a much more open all around. I mean, Beijing, I think it was like 15,000, but it was definitely like a much more open. All around. All around. I mean, Athens, they didn't finish the roof in 04 and it was outside. So, I mean, this is definitely better than Athens. Well, this is about 15, 16,000, I think. Yeah. Is it? But it's like just one side and then, you know,

one side is just like commentary and media and all that um but i don't know i've only heard good things about the actual like venue from the athletes because there's a 50 meter wall pool on the other side behind the um where the media is you walk out there and it's like a whole nother facility, which is good. And yeah, I don't know. I haven't heard, you know, they're saying the pool's slow, but like overall it seems like everyone's saying it's like pretty well run. Oh, that's good to hear.

Yeah. It's like everyone's in the same boat, right? Sure. It's not like someone gets to swim in a fast pool and someone gets to swim in a slow pool. It's like everyone's in the same, doing the same thing. Except did you see last night that there was for the four by 200 freestyle relay, they had lane nine. Is that a first?

That's like an Olympic first. I don't know. So it was because it was, I'm gonna mess this up, but it was Israel and Japan tied. And I don't know how they decided, but yeah. So they ran nine teams. I think it's like the first time they've ever. I don't know how they decided, but yeah. So they, they ran nine teams. I think it's like the first time I've ever, I don't think that's ever happened.

It's the first time I've ever opened up a ninth lane for an Olympic final. They were way at the, I was watching it and I didn't realize. And then I was like, Oh my God, they're against the wall, which couldn't have helped. Cause they tied for eighth. Yeah. And so. You can't do a relay. You know, if you tie, i don't know i don't think it had ever happened so they didn't they didn't run like we don't know what to do yeah

so they just opened i think they just the solution was opening up a ninth lane for the yeah because i think if you know if other teams tie for fourth or fifth or whatever just you know that just pushes out number eight right it's just yeah but to tie for eighth in an individual event, you do a swim off, but I don't think they were able to get eight guys back to do like another 200 free. I went to bed before that happened last night. How does that happen? Yeah. They're not going to make all eight guys do another four by two. No, it wouldn't be right.

And then the finals, I think they'll just. In one day. Yeah. Yeah. There probably wasn't any protocol for it. Other than the shallow water, conceivably making the pool slow. One of the things that like hit me just watching it,

even though I was like, it's kind of far away. I'm getting the vibe. Like it's exciting. Like it's so cool to be here. But also I thought this is a swim meet. Like this is kind of like every other swim meet I've ever been to. You know what I mean? It is. You know what I mean? Like- It is.

You know what I mean? Yeah. There's something comforting about that also. Like it felt like- They're just warming up like you would at any other meet. And they're, you know. It kind of felt like our trials. Yeah.

Like it's nicer than ours was. It's not nicer than yours was. But yeah, it just felt, it feels like a swim meet when you're there. Yeah. I mean, I had that moment when I got there night two and I was like, oh my gosh, like why was I so nervous about this?

But it's cause I'm in the stands and not swimming. And so I think it, it again puts it in perspective. Like when you're in it, like it's the only thing that you think it's the only thing that matters. You're like, this is everything. And it is everything, but it's so interesting to now step back and be in the stands and be like, oh, it's just another swim meet. Dang it. Like, I wish I had some of this

back then, but I don't know. Some people do that better than others. Yeah. Some people can have that perspective and some can't, I don't know. But yeah, it is funny when you look at it from that perspective, you're like, oh, it's really just a bunch of people from all over the world getting together and like racing each other to see how, to see who can do it in the least amount of time. We talked about the Australia-USA rivalry

a little bit last time and the whole like cowbell thing and all of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what's the australian perspective on how you're like how are how do they think about this rivalry i don't know like i think some some people have been more vocal than others about it and and maybe sort of given it a a different sort of feel and view than a lot of the team actually, you know, the Australian team actually feels about it. Like, from my perspective, like, and from at least, you know,

people that I've trained with and teammates, friends that I have on the team, like, we love the US team, you know. There's a rivalry, but it's like... Everyone's like, we're all friends. Yeah, yeah. It's health, like, it's healthy rivalry, but it's like, everyone's like, we're all friends. Yeah, yeah. It's health, like it's healthy rivalry, you know, we're probably the two greatest swimming nations on the planet.

And naturally, I think we want to lift each other, you know, we don't want to, we just naturally do lift each other to higher standards because, you know, us, the US and Australia as nations are constantly pushing the bar in the pool. But yeah, I don't really buy into all the other stuff. I feel the exact same way. I feel like just the media kind of ran with it.

And then there were certain people that were more vocal than others, but I don't know. I saw Phelps' video today where he's doing like, I've got one thing to say and he's doing the cow. Yeah, he's milking it. Yeah. And the videos of him seeing the video about it. It's like viral.

Like all of this is like, it's just building. It like, it made me think that. Audience enthusiasm for it, the whole event. You could see the wheels turning in his head of like, do I come back right now? Yeah, there was definitely a shift. I could see that, he was like, I wish I was in there. Oh, you don't think he's looking at the times also?

Oh, 100%. 100%. I could see the internal dialogue of like, have I got time to like qualify for this team? Like maybe at least 100%. Just clean up again? Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, do you, I don't know, you're eight, I think you're like eight, nine years younger than me, which I hate admitting, but I mean, do you, don't you think so in 2000 with the whole intense rivalry with the, like, we're going to strum them like guitars and that, I feel like it's similar. It's just social media wasn't around as much in 2000. It was just newspapers doing it. It was just newspapers. So like people are making this crazy deal out of it. This has been happening for decades, decades. And it's just fun. If it's a lot, crazy deal out of it. This has been happening for decades. Yeah.

Decades. And it's just fun. If it's light, if it's lighthearted, like, you know, totally. It's fun.

I think the smash on my guitars thing was pretty funny. Yeah. I mean, when the guys did this. That goes back to Clemmy, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Clemmy broke the world record off that, off that thing. And he gets out and he's like, yeah, crazy. So Katie, have you ever been to Australia? Did you compete there? I did.

The last time I competed there was the world championships in 2007, where they put the pool in the Rod Labor Arena. Yeah. And it was, I mean, that's one of my favorite experiences pools. I mean, Australia in general is my favorite place. Australia has no shortage of like epic pools. No, no.

And one of the- I've watched replays of that meet and they look pretty cool. But one of the great pools is the Gold Coast Aquatic Center where you train, your home pool. Like this facility is unreal. Really? It's like right on the water.

It's just the weather is perfect. There's two 50-meter pools, like this incredible strength training facility. Yeah, there's like two 50-meter pools. Everything is like really nice. Two gyms, like a diving pool to dive well, like a shallow 25-meter, I learned to swim. It's a big, like a big facility. It's your own town, that's where you learn.

You and Emma train there. But a lot of the Olympic team was part of that training group, yes? Like who else on the team was part of your group? Michael Boll is the coach. He's now stepping down. He was Stephanie Rice's coach. Yes.

That was sort of his first big athlete was Steph back in the day and then has since sort of had success at pretty much every game since, particularly with Emma in Tokyo. Now has Kaylee McEwen, who just won the 100 back last night. And rocked like the most epic pair of spectacles

of all time. Did you see her? I love that. Can we talk about her Prada frames for a minute? Prada frames are sick, yeah. She got those a couple months ago. Those are unreal. She had these kind of other ones

and then one day she rocks up in the Prada's to training because we train in the same group and they're pretty sick, yeah. So I'm glad she wore up in the Prada to training because we train in the same group and they're pretty sick. Yeah. So I'm glad she wore them on the party. I know, that was a very like cool move. Yeah. Especially to do it in Paris.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was thought out. Yeah. It was planned. She looks great in them anyway. Yeah. Go ahead. We had a great group there.

Like it was myself, Emma, Kaylee, Lonnie Pallister um distance um so he like Bollie has that run from 50 meters to 1500 and has had like medals in pretty much like most distances which he's a great coach um splits up his program really well he's probably a sort of a maybe a Bob Bowman style equivalent in Australia. And who else? We had Brendan Smith, who's on the IM for the 400 IM for Australia. Had Mack Horton, who retired last year.

A few other guys. That's a lot. I mean, that's more than you say Bob Bowman. Bob Bowman doesn't have that, even that many. Like that's like what quality, I guess, do you feel like makes him that much of a legend? I think his personality, his ability to people manage, to manage personalities, which I think is half

of what coaching is. And to manage personalities and almost be, there's a psychological element, right? Like you almost have to be a psychologist as well as a coach. He has a very calm demeanor, exterior at least. I I don't know what I'm sure there's more going on inside when we're at meets but um he's very good at instilling a sense of calm confidence in in his athletes which uh I appreciated for the years that I was with him um and I think you know I think coaches like there's different coaches for different athletes but I think the years that I was with him. And I think, you know, I think coaches, like there's different coaches for different athletes, but I think the ones that sort of merge well with his personality do really well under him.

Ones that he's really tough, but in a calm sort of way. Yeah. He's also hilarious. So that helps. And now he's stepping down. Yeah. He says, I don't know. We've all got money on like how long that'll, how long that'll last, but he says he's retiring. It's like a John Urbanchak who retired like four times. Yeah. Yeah. He'll be back on deck in six months. Like, yeah, he's not going to be able to hang it up for very long. But I read that Mel Marshall, the Loughborough coach from the UK,

who's Adam Peaty's coach, is taking over the role? She's taking over the group, yeah. Yeah, she's taking over that role. I mean, she seems like an amazing coach. Yeah, yeah. And I think she's wanted to, they've come down for camps a couple times.

She's brought the Brits down to train with us a couple times and I think she's expressed interest in living and working in that area for a long time because it's so nice. I'm sure it's a welcome weather change from the UK.

It's a big difference. So she's going to be taking over that program back there. So I'm sure it'd be great for, great for the group and it couldn't be a better coach to sort of take on what, what Bollie built there. Does Boll sort of stepping down impact your thoughts around continuing or? I don't know. I think it's independent of that? Yeah, I think independent of that. As much as I love him and feel like if I were to continue that he'd be who I'd like to stay under, I think that having come back in a pretty sort of lone wolf fashion, I have this idea that I could do it anywhere with

anyone if I wanted to. Um, cause I did so much of my early training, like, you know, almost alone in, in, you know, 25 yard pools with no line rope sector and COVID and, you know, all that stuff. So, um, yeah, I don't know. I'd sort of have to look at what else was around. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm really interested in like, I I've never had a poll of these two things. I like, I was in swimming and I was locked into swimming. That's all I was going to do. Like, are you right now, and maybe you're six weeks removed. So maybe it was too early to ask this question, but you have this incredible talent in music and you have this incredible talent in swimming. So right now, like was your brain,

where's your brain being pulled and in what direction? It's hard to, hard to decipher right now. I think I'm too close to it still. Um, I really had to make a conscious effort in those couple of years to really lock in and not be pulled towards you know um some of the other stuff but I I think if if I if I was to come back to swimming I'd be able to have a nice balance of um I'm still maintaining that part of my life um but there are things I wanna do outside of the sport for at least a little bit. My plan is not to slip too far off the wagon,

you know, like I'm still lifting. Pretty fit, like how can I hold onto this without like, you know, I don't wanna- Pinching on my creative lifestyle. Yeah, yeah, so like, you know, I think I've built such good habits over the last like four years

that I don't plan on just becoming a slob. So I think if I can stay fit and stay strong, I think that at least over the next sort of six, 12 months, I think that makes it a little easier if you do decide you wanna slot back in that you haven't put on 20 kilos and you know, nobody wants to see that on you. No, no. I never saw like, was that how much you had to lose?

No, no. Okay. He was like a skinny. I was going to say, you just build a ton of muscle. I was, yeah. I was like growing up competing in swimming, like I always sort of had a swimming frame, I guess. But I was, it needed to be built upon. I think four years ago I was pretty skinny. So yeah, but no, I never had any weight on. Yeah.

What I'm excited for you to explore is returning to the songwriting and the performing, but doing it on your own terms. Like you basically just broke all these rules. Like all these people said, what you're trying to do is impossible. It's a fool's errand. And you committed to it and you took it like way beyond

any place that anybody thought realistically that you would go with it. Yeah. And that has to expand your sense of possibility, right? And you are a musician, you're a songwriter, you're a performer, you're all of these things. Those things haven't gone away. They've just been kind of latent for a while. And now you get to return to that,

but you get to do it with this renewed sense of capacity. Right, like you don't have to go back to LA and plug yourself into some crazy machine. Like you get to do it the way that you wanna do it. Yeah, it added a nice one, it sort of added a nice layer to expose the story of my life so far, but two, it definitely did instill in me a sense of kind of do it however you want. You know, I think it also, swimming teaches you a sense of self-discipline and self-reliance

that few other things can can teach you I think I think competitive sport at that level in any sport teaches you that but I learned it through swimming you know um that can be applied to whatever else you know so I'm really excited to I suppose like have that asset to and and set of you know tools to be able to apply to whatever it is you know I want to do next you know but I'm particularly excited to apply that to music and entertainment and sort of um the thing the thing though about like the entertainment industry and all that and the music industry is that it's not so black and white as as a work turns into black and white as as a work turns into progress or success um rule like rule or theory as say sport is you know sports very much what you put in is where you get out kind of situation where

you know the music industry there's you know there's that whole shaking hands and kissing babies side, which I just, I don't enjoy, like or enjoy. It was made to do too much of it as a teenager that I'm just like, have no interest in, you know? So I definitely would do it on my own terms again. Yeah, I think we talked about this last time. Like there's this tension between effort and output, whereas in swimming, it's pretty binary, like the more you put in,

the more you get out of it. And you learn to be this. To an extent, I suppose. Yeah, I mean, there's caveats to that. For the most part, yeah. But it is very much like- It's hard to go over the edge. The harder you work, like you're putting yourself

in the better position to like succeed or achieve your goals. Whereas anything that is creative, there's also, you have to hold it loosely. Like you can't force the song. There's the business aspect of entertainment, but the actual creative aspect of it is more of an allowing. Like you can't like take that swimming attitude

and like, you could go into the studio and say, I'm not leaving the studio until I have six songs, but you also have to like step back and it's a different mindset like a set you know like the way you way you would in in in sport yeah you gotta it's a push and pull yeah it's a different skill set yeah that you have to like yeah kind of resurface in yourself which I have to sort of reteach myself you know well I was gonna ask that, like, did that, cause I feel like some level of having the looseness in swimming is actually really healthy. Is good, yeah.

And so did that help or did you continue that when you came back to swimming? That's a great question. Did you, were you able to have a little looseness because the fact that you're here and you're like, I'm at peace. I I'm in awe of that. You know what I mean? So I think I'm wondering, you tell me if that played a part. Yeah, I suppose so. Like approaching it in that, in that way. Um, I did have to keep reminding

myself of it through that process. Cause I did find times where I was holding on too tight, you know, and, and that would,, and that would negatively affect my performance. So I go, no, I need to keep that, like, musical approach to this a little bit. And when I did swim my best, it was, you know, I'm sure it was the same for you or for any swimmer. Like when you feel you're swimming your best, it feels free. It feels loose and it feels... Flowy.

Yeah, it feels musical in a way. Like it feels like a dance, yeah. You also have the added benefit of just, you have this other love. So like retiring from swimming doesn't create like an identity crisis for you. That's what I'm grateful for. And I think maybe that plays a part

in the peace side of things too, because I wasn't afraid of what I was going to want to do after or having to find something else. I'm very grateful to have built this or just to naturally have this other great passion that can certainly ease the post sort of swimming blues that, you know, I still kind of am getting because you're so used to a very particular regiment. But it's nice to sort of have something else to.

You find yourself waking up at five or whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so funny. Eating a giant breakfast and you're like, actually. Even some of my mates that I'm here with. or whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So funny. You eat a giant breakfast and you're like, actually don't eat. Some of my mates that I'm here with. I know, I'm like, I actually don't need to consume this many calories.

I don't need three breakfasts. I can just have an espresso and like a little croissant. You know, that's enough. I am, and I tell you, I am loving, that is the one thing you're done with swimming or your sport, and I would just do that. I'd be like, I don't need to consume an insane amount of protein. You know what, I'm just gonna have a latte and a croissant and that is the one thing you're done with swimming or your sport. And I would just do that. I'd be like, I don't need to consume an insane amount of protein. You know what?

I'm just going to have a latte and a croissant and that is good enough. Yeah, and that's good. And also when you're like lifting or I was talking about this, one of my other buddies who I'm here with, he unfortunately missed qualifying for the Oz team as well. He actually won the 200 fly trials but wasn't uh australia has these oh it didn't make a credit time standards that they're what did he swim in the two fly 155 maybe to fly or any one 56 maybe 56 but one trials but wasn't under the the the qual time so oh but he's over here and we're going

around to see some of the swimming and um you know he's like me i guess he sort of accepted that fact and swimming so cutthroat man like yeah it's crazy you know um but uh we were at the gym like yesterday lifting like oh we don't have to like destroy ourselves. You know, we can just like, we can just like exercise to feel good to get some endorphins, you know? Yeah. Like we don't have to just, you know, punish ourselves. Like, wow, we can just, we can actually stop here after, you know,

just four sets and like go get breakfast and feel good for the day. Like enjoy the session. Not going to sleep for two hours now. Yeah, it's great. Yeah. I have to ask you, I love the little clip that you did

with the Inspired Unemployed guys. I love those guys. Do you know these guys? The Inspired Unemployed. Which one did you see? The one where you were getting out of the pool, taking the cap off. Oh yeah, okay.

Yeah, cool. So we did it a longer, I think it came out today. It's like, I teach them how to swim butterfly kind of, they race each other and then I race the winner with like a handicap. It was pretty funny.

I'll send you the clip. You don't know who these guys are, Katie? No, I need to look them up. They're like Australian comedians. These guys, yeah. They're two of the funniest dudes you're ever gonna, I mean, how do you explain it? They're like, so the humor's very Aussie-like, but they just make these really comedic videos on YouTube

and Instagram reels and stuff. And they have a show in Australia also. Yeah, yeah. Like a YouTube show, like a TV show? They were like two dudes. Yeah, and they got reels and stuff. And they have a show in Australia. Yeah, yeah. Like a YouTube show, like a TV show? They were like two dudes. Yeah, and they got a podcast and stuff. Who would make these hilarious little videos on Instagram or TikToks or whatever.

They're just like two Aussie blokes, but they're really funny together. And they just blew up. They're so good that they just developed this huge following. Yeah, they have a very funny podcast. I love that. And now they get to go to all these amazing events and make funny videos with like famous people.

So they go to F1 and they did stuff with Daniel Riccardo and whatever, now they're at their Olympics doing stuff with Cody and others, I'm sure. Yeah, they're doing like their correspondence for the Australian team or like something. It's kind of like in like the buttery bros in the CrossFit world in the US, like where it's like. They're just, they're just too, they kind of like the buttery bros in the CrossFit world in the US. Like where it's like-

They're just too, they kind of like are- They're normal guys. They're like blue collar guys. They're like relatable though. They're like blue collar guys. Oh, that's so cool. It's a very Australian kind of humor. It is like Aussie humor.

Which what, like I always hear people say like, oh, it's like Aussie humor. Like what is Aussie humor? Like why is it different? Like I don't actually, I feel like I'm good friends with Steph Rice and I always laughed at her jokes. So like, I don't know what the difference is. It's a lot of taking the piss.

Yeah. You know? A lot of sarcasm. Trying to take people down a notch. Maybe a bit crude, yeah. We have this thing called like, which is one of the things I don't love about Australia, which is like, we call it tall poppy syndrome,

which you guys don't have as much in the US where someone kind of like gets a bit too successful or, you know. Kind of cocky. Yeah, not even cocky, just like successful. Oh, no. In any work in business, like people just start to try and cut you down. And I think it's, I don't know what the, why that is in the culture. And that's why a lot of Australians that are moving overseas abroad to like

further their, their careers, like they might go to the States or whatever, because you guys have this really beautiful culture of like, you know, lifting each other up and not sort of downplaying success, which I like about the States. And we, we probably need a bit more of that in Australia, but we, you know, that's also, I think what keeps a lot of Aussies like humble, but sometimes I feel like it's out of fear of being like, you know, yeah. Wow. But yeah, it's a little bit, um, we're probably a little more like judgmental of each other

than Americans are of each other. But then like, sometimes we have the perspective of like you guys do it to the point where like, you guys like to flex. Like the cocky Americans. Yeah, yeah. You guys are extreme. Well, yeah, we're constantly,

like sometimes I feel like, yeah, we can go overboard of like, oh my gosh, that, yeah. You guys are guys, yeah. Well, yeah, we're constantly, like, sometimes I feel like, yeah, we can go, like, overboard of, like, oh, my gosh, that was amazing. That, you know, that is definitely in our nature. Yeah. It's almost like in Australia, like, if you drive, like, too flashy a car, like, everyone's like, what the hell are you doing? Like, get rid of that thing, you know? Whereas in the States, a lot of places would be like, man, like, congrats.

Like, you bought a whatever, you know? To an extent to an extent yeah i don't know maybe that's just la like you can i mean you can get it can be douchey i don't yeah a hundred percent i feel like especially in la like i used to live in la and it's like yeah like you look at that person it goes overboard yeah calm down what are you trying to overcome? But I suppose what I'm trying to say is we sort of have that, we call it tall poppy syndrome where you can, which to an extent it's all right because I think it keeps everyone kind of grounded. But at the same time, I think you need a bit of encouragement, a bit of go do whatever you want.

Do you think you would ever move back to the States? Not full time. I could see myself going back and forth, but I think just being back close to family, having my girlfriend and just having built this really nice community of friends back home, I think I enjoy and feel a lot happier in Australia than I did when I was

overseas because it was weird like in my 10 years in LA like I probably made three friends that I've like you know been able to maintain um I don't know if that's just the transitory nature of like the city because everyone's just coming and going and from somewhere else and whatever but like I've been able to really cultivate some really lifelong or what I hope to be lifelong friendships back in Australia. And like I don't want to live too far from that. Am I going to move to Paris with you? I'm planning to see.

I'm watering it every day. This is the moment. Every day she gets a nice little aesthetic video of like a beautiful street with like a guy playing accordion. And I'm like, you know, I'm going, yeah, I really like it here. This could be every day. Yeah. Yeah. Like let's try three months.

Would you swim in the Seine if given the opportunity? Have they given it the green light yet? So here's the latest. Obviously, we recapped this the other day. Because they moved the triathlon yesterday, didn't they? So yesterday was supposed to be the triathlon. The men were going off first. They all got up at 4 a.m., went down to the start, called it off. The water wasn't testing properly. So they said, come back tomorrow.

So I woke up this morning. How are they going to do enough in 24 hours to like- But check this out. Exactly. What day is it today? It's Wednesday. 31st. So I woke up at like 4.30 this morning and it was raining. And I'm like, well, there's no way they're doing the triathlon today. Sure enough, women went off on time and men were just finishing the race when you arrived here. Isn't that so concerning? So they both went and the whole thing was. But if they called it too dirty yesterday, how have they done enough to change that? Exactly.

Your guess is as good as mine. I don't know the answer to that. And are they still going to do the open water? That's my question. So my understanding, I was talking to somebody at the pool the other day who has insight, a former Olympian who's talking to a bunch of the swimmers. And as far as I understand it,

it's similar. Like the day that the event is supposed to happen, they'll show up for it and they'll let them know. That's crazy. And so here's the thing. Let me just's the thing, where do they warm up to the, the, for the five and 10 K. I have no idea. Maybe it may be in the scent itself. Right. So if the, if the water isn't, isn't testing properly, they'll send them home and they'll, they'll come back the following day. Same thing. And they'll do that. I think three times. That's like the rule?

And then if it's still not clean enough, they have a backup, like a B plan, which I think is hosting the open water competition where they're doing the kayaking. Is that right? I don't have any insight to this. It's an event that's happening here. Maybe they're rowing.

Is it rowing in the center? Is it rowing? I don't know. I don't know where they're rowing. They have a secondary where they're doing some kind of competition. I'm mind blown how they were able to get it. But can you imagine the mindset of like going to do your thing and then being told.

Your heat is this morning. No, it's not. Okay, it's tomorrow now. No, it's not. It's the next day. Like how does that impact your mental game? Yeah, It's huge. Cause you're so used to knowing something's happening on a certain day at a certain time. I mean, your whole plan leading up to it, like, I don't know about you, but I had like a three day out, like, here's the pace I'm

doing. Here's what I'm doing like each time. So you would keep doing it and then you would. Well, you're timing your prep into this specific day, right? Like you have things you're doing each day leading in. And just mentally, like, okay, like you lock in 24 hours out. Yeah, exactly. So it's like to lock in, okay, no, no, no. Okay, now I'm gonna lock in again. You shut everything down. The emotional energy would be unreal.

Yeah, so if you're Katie Grimes right now, I mean, that's like, what do you say to her to help her get sorted? I actually have talked to her a lot this meet, um, before 400 IM and then she, so I'm the 1500 prelim and unfortunately didn't advance. And I think for her, she's such a programmed person. And I think that's why we get along so well. Cause I'm like that person too. And I was like, you need to just keep, keep recreating the plan. Like, okay, like here's what I'm doing. Like even from the 4 a.m. final,

she had the prelim the next morning. She got back at 2 a.m. and then she has to get up. And my advice was like compartmentalize the emotion, make a plan minute to minute. Like for some people that is like the worst thing you can do. But for her, she was like, okay, cool. So my advice is like, okay, like just make the plan assuming it's gonna be happening.

Yeah. But then the second you find out, make a new plan. Like don't start flailing. And I think it would be very easy to be like, oh wait, I had my plan and not sit down again, take the time, be in the moment and create a new plan. But for someone who is that type of person, it's the only way to get through it, I think.

And I think you'd hope that, well, at least for us, like, I don't know, our coach would sort of hope you try and emulate, you know, heats and finals stuff in training. Like we do a suited morning and evening and you treat it like it was a heat and final or whatever, heat and semi, you know? And to go through, you know, and to go through, you know, not, not to a tee, but similar processes, uh, um, as you would on like a race day with the,

this, you know, a similar sort of downtime in between and, you know, similar sort of pre-activation and all that stuff. And so ideally, like you get used to it and you can, you know, if you're good, you can run it back and keep going. The added ripple here being all the bus rides. You know, the village is like an hour away. And the buses aren't running well. No.

She was going from the comp pool to the village, which is the village is north of the comp pool. And this bus driver's taking them all the way to the south of Paris. Because of the road closure? Just taking the wrong direction. Oh, because they got lost? Just like the bus driver didn't know where to go or something. Was there a mute?

She's like, I'm in the south of Paris now. We're going all the way back up. So she was on this bus for two hours or something after just having done a, just like an evening swim last night, gets back at like 9 p.m. to the village. That's so frustrating. And then there's the food shortage situation. Didn't hear about that.

You haven't heard about this? So apparently, maybe it's been rectified now, but I heard this at the pool the other night also, that it's a big problem. And when those buses are running late after finals and those athletes, whether it's swimming or some other sport, they're getting back to the village at like midnight, 1am. And they're all there is, is like bread rolls to eat. There's no food. Yes. Which is like the whole thing with France and Paris was like, we know how to do great food.

Yeah. And late too. Like people eat at whatever hour. Yeah. And that's been a real issue as far as I understand. I've heard that too. Yeah, I mean, I hope it, I feel like- When every cafe in the city is still open at midnight serving food, the one thing they should have is like- When you walk outside the pool venue, there's all these hotels right there.

Yeah, yeah. Like right there. I know. Still serving, whatever, yeah. The first thing they should have is stuff available for the athletes. Well, then there's like the road closures, which has been a huge thing of like, you can't actually, I'm assuming the buses deal with it too, but you can't actually go through certain parts.

So Sean Johnson, who was legendary gymnast, said she had to get out in the middle of the interstate and run a mile because she was gonna be late for finals. And she was a correspondent and she said, she showed up. She was like, I look like I jumped in the pool, but. Wow. That's insane. Just like so stressful. Did we talk about the other day,

the skateboarders who skated, the bus broke down and then they just all got out and were like, no sweat. And they just all skated to the venue. On their way to actually compete. On their way, yes. So convenient. That's kind of bad ass. I know.

Still, yeah. Fuck. It's an Olympics though, right? Like the logistics, I mean, you'd hope they have it down, but stuff's gonna go wrong. Yeah, I feel like at every Olympics, there's something, like in Beijing, the sky was orange for the majority of the competition, you know, cause of the pollution.

So I feel like there's always something. And you to be adaptable. Yeah. There's always something. It's just, you just have to kind of pivot. Right. The mindset training. I heard they're not that bad though. I heard that too. But the mindset training being like resilience, like be prepared for all of these unforeseen variables that are, yeah, they're going to happen because they will, and they're going to throw you off your game. And if you're so rigid about like, this is my thing, you're going to get thrown off your game and you're going to, you're going to crumble. Yeah. I think adaptability is so important, especially when you just, if you're an athlete competing globally. But can you imagine coming to the Olympics with like a schedule like

Michael Phelps, where it's literally just like multiple races at every session, like without just a relentless. And if there's an hour shift, like left or right. And if you're back and you're getting one hour less of sleep. No, I couldn't. I mean, my first four days, I swam four 400s and six 200s in Beijing. Like I couldn't imagine being like, oh, but like you're gonna get back at 2 a.m. Oh, and you're not gonna have food. Oh, like I- Was it better there?

It was like all pretty predictable. Food was not an issue there. And then I would say we got back, there was some commute, there's always some commute, but it wasn't two hours for sure, but yeah. They weren't taking wrong directions. They weren't going to the south of France, no. Yeah. What are some of the other things that you've noticed just being here in Paris that people at home

who are watching it on TV might not understand or appreciate or realize about the experience of attending? It's pretty beautiful in the city. Like, it's a beautiful city to host games. Like, walking past Southwell Tower and seeing the rings just illuminated in the evening is just awesome, you know, and that kind of stuff. And it's nice to be, like it's not that busy

as we were saying before. It's shockingly unbusy, I've found. You can still catch Ubers around. You can, you know, ride the city bikes. The Metro is not shoulder to shoulder, at least from my experience having taken it. So it's been like, it's quite enjoyable for the spectator at least.

It feels like business as usual. Like I've been here for a while, so I sort of feel like I live here now. And it's just like, oh, this is life here. I had a couple buddies. The city would be overrun. It would be really difficult to get around. And there are those zones and there are challenges.

It's fairly clean overall. But that's all right around the venues around the river. Yeah. In the city, it feels like business as usual. Some of the areas that are kind of blocked off, I think opening ceremony, you couldn't cross the river. But the next day, they opened it all back up again. And yeah, it's kind of nice for the spectator.

For the spectator. I also feel like they're just so warm and accepting. Like I have definitely put in, cause you know how sometimes you put in the Uber, like the actual place and then it'll give you four different options. Then I instantly have a freak out cause I'm like, what's the option?

And they'll come find me. They're just like, that is not happening in the States. Like they're mad, you're getting a one-star review. If you're not on the corner that you say you are at the time they arrive, like they're canceling on you in the States. They're like, it's okay, I got, like I just feel like they're like very welcoming to,

they understand, you know, we're not from here. And so that's been, I think, a surprise for me. Yeah, that whole sense that Parisians hate Americans or hate English speakers. I haven't had that experience at all. No, not at all. I've had plenty of, it's welcoming to, you know, English speakers and all kinds of people.

So, and I've heard, well, I had caught up with a couple mates that live in Paris, like they're Parisians, the other night, and they were saying it's quieter than it usually is at this time of year. Oh, okay. Because it's summer tourism, it's usually packed in Paris. And the Parisians have all left. The Parisians have mostly left,

and they were like saying it's surprisingly, this is quiet for July. So, yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. Quieter than it would be ordinarily is like a weird thing. During Olympics, yeah. During Olympics. But I feel like, I mean, the French pride is like palpable in the pool.

I mean, Leon is getting chanted like every five seconds. I was at his 400 IM final the other night and it was deafening in there. Yeah. Like, which is cool to see the patriotism for. So cool. The French here. Like I'm not even, yeah, I'm sitting there in American

and I'm like, I'm about to start chanting his name because it's just infectious. America does have probably the other huge presence in the stands. I think I would say France and the US have the biggest presence in the stands. So you're either hearing like,.A. someone, L.A. Leon, they're going L.A. Leon, whatever. Or it's U.S.A., U.S.A.

Yes, I agree. Fortunately, no cowbell, though. I was with a small contingent of, yeah, no cowbell. Come on, the Australians. I'm not a cowbell. I understand. Well, that's the thing. It's not actually, I'm actually really surprised

that there's not a, cause at trials they were handing them out left and right. Yeah, I'm surprised. Like shaking it. I'm like, oh my gosh. I'm also surprised out of spite that someone didn't come with like 50 cowbells in a bag and was like handing them out to all the US spectators.

Or like one massive one. Just to take the piss. Yeah. Have you had any surreal moments? Any like shoulder to shoulder moments with celebrities? You bump into Snoop Dogg, anything like that? Not yet, no, not yet. Okay, yeah.

He was at the pool the other day though, wasn't he? He was sitting with Megan Dressel watching. They're just hanging out. There's been some cool, like people have come and really seen, watched the swimming. I think maybe Tom Cruise went and watched the swimming. Oh, he did? Gaga went out.

There's been a couple of people who've gone out and watched the swimming. Bill Gates. I actually, I was so upset. So I had to do this video with someone and we were trying to keep it quiet of like the doors leading out to the stands. And apparently Bill Gates was trying to get through

and they blocked him. And I'm like, next time, just a rule here. They didn't recognize him, I guess. Let Bill Gates through. I would love they blocked him. I'm like, next time, just a rule here. Let Bill Gates through. I would love to meet him. This is a stupid video that I don't really need. He's in the corner. You can see him trying to get through.

No one's helping him? No, they were like, I'm sorry, sir. You can't go through because of my video. Oh, my God. It's mortified. Next time, he can come through. More than fine. More than fine. I'm like, next time he can come through. It's fine.

We can do it again. You can come in the video. That's funny. Yeah. So Katie, you're doing videos for Team USA where you're grabbing certain people and just doing like short, like sort of man on the street sort of thing. Yeah, for Team USA and then Yahoo Sports as well.

So just kind of similar, like the behind the scenes of what it's like to be here. It's hard to get actual athletes a lot, but I actually got Noah Lyles, which was cool. Oh, wow. Cool. So I'm holding that video for when he competes. But I feel like the thing here is just like, yeah, like people want to see where you're going. And like, I have to kind of remind myself of, for us, it's kind of status quo,

like going to the pool or going to Team USA house or all that. It is cool through the city. They got all the different houses in different countries. And they're often, they're like little pop-ups all around central Paris, which is cool. How's Team Australia? I'm assuming Australia has a house here. I haven't been there yet, but yeah.

I haven't been to any of those. Well, like Team USA house, they're charging a little cash to get in. It's like this huge old building, right? It's an epic building. And I mean, I was there on night one and that again was just surreal. It was when the Americans won gold

in the 4x100 freestyle relay and the place erupted. And because it's kind of enclosed, it was, I mean, electric. And so it's kind of cool to see like the families congregate there and have everyone just scream their heads off, you know, together. That's cool. But those nation houses are different

from the kind of Bonnaroo carnival environment that's way up the canals. Like, have you seen that? Yeah, yeah, there's like a festival. And there's like fairgrounds where each country has its own kind of like little area. Separate from it, separate from that. But you can go up there and there's like activities

and all kinds of stuff. Oh, I didn't know that. I haven't been yet. There's like a huge Olympic fairgrounds. Yeah, and they have like merry-go-rounds. That's fantastic, they have rides? Yeah, there's like all kinds of stuff like olympic disneyland like if you go run like next time you go running yeah just take the canal as far as you can north like you'll get you take it north and you'll go through the kind of area where there's

a bunch of cafes and then there's a big intersection and then you cross it and you keep going and that's where they built in this like pool into the canal that I think it's closed right now, but normally is open to people. And then it keeps going and it opens up into this huge park. And inside there, there are all these like activities and things happening in there. I'll have to check that out. My next outing. That seems like more of a marathon situation.

It's not that far away. But to the point of like helping the audience understand, like every time there's an Olympics in a city, all these brands have houses and like hospitality suites and they're kind of open to the public or semi open to the public. And then each country has its own house. So there's all these like social act. There's a whole social world that's going on at the same time as the games. And it's stratified, right? Like there's the super fancy parties at the Louvre that A-list celebrities go to,

but then there's all these other kind of activations going around with all these brands that have athletes who are competing. And so even if you don't go to any of the events, there's still like all this stuff to do and a lot of fun to be had. Yeah, it's a good vibe here. At least from my experience so far.

Are you gonna play some music while you're here? I've got the guitar here, but no. People must have asked you. Yeah, I haven't really wanted to, I don't know. Just keep that aside for now. You should just have no obligations. I'm surprised you even said yes to this. Like you should just be having a good time.

You know what I mean? I'm doing both. Don't worry. Well, you did, I did text you and you like, you went dark on me for like 24 hours. And I was like, I should just leave this guy alone. He just wants to have fun, you know. I was definitely out.

I don't remember what night it was. Off the grid for a second. We've been out a couple nights. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Enjoying the relief of not having the early mornings anymore. Yeah. Cool.

Well, I think we need to let you go because you got somewhere else you got to be. And it's good to be here. Thanks for having me. It was so much fun. Nice to talk to you guys. Nice to talk to you too. And just, you know, normally like I do intros

like that I record later before these so I can kind of contextualize everything. And these are just kind of going up, you know, normally like I do intros like that I record later before these, so I can kind of contextualize everything. And these are just kind of going up, you know, rough as they are. For people that don't know and haven't listened to the podcast that Cody and I did a while back, what was that like a year and a half ago? I still got a lot of great, yeah,

it was probably about a year ago, four months ago. Still got a lot of great feedback from that. Yeah, I mean, you mean, your story is incredible. I think the way that you navigated this chapter of your life showed a lot of maturity and integrity. And I just have mad respect for how you've conducted yourself and the way that you showed up

for something that you cared about and the way that you shared the story of the whole thing, like very transparently. And it's great to see you here and in like a really good headspace. And like I said, at the outset, I'm excited for this next chapter for people that are like, who is this Cody guy?

And like, what are we talking about? Like go back and listen or watch that podcast that we did. Cause I just, I think you're a really, you know, a really super interesting guy. And so it was a privilege to have you here today. Thanks man. Privileged to be here here today. Thanks man. Privileged to be here.

Thanks for having me. Yeah, I mean, I'm inspired. Like I just think to be able to see someone make that transition in the way that you are and genuinely, like you can tell when an athlete is just like saying words to kind of get through it before they deal with their stuff. It's inspiring to me having gone through transition

to see the way that you speak about it. So it's cool. Thank you. Yeah, cool. Yeah, I hope I can inspire like other athletes to not be sort of afraid to, you know, come in and out of their sport and, you know, be okay with sort of- For you to take that long of a break

and not even like, you didn't even get going in your real swimming career. Right? Like it was cut short before it really even began. I suppose so. And then to step in like so many years later and do what you did opens up the possibility for other athletes thinking differently

about their approach to sport. Yeah, yeah. Particularly for, at least I can't speak for like longer distance events, but particularly for the 100 meters, like I think there's that sort of common conception that you need to have done 10K a day from the age of 14 to have any chance to compete at a high level.

I think it's being proven more and more that that's not necessarily the case and that it may not necessarily be too late to come in as long as you then commit to the work required, obviously. It's like, you know, I'm not saying anyone can just come and go in and just swim, you know. But I think there's a sort of age-old conception around, you know, the amount of years you have to have sort of been putting in K around, you know, the amount of years you had to have to have sort of been putting in K's, you know.

It's the culture of swimming, I think. Yeah, it's the culture. It's the way it's always been done, right? Yeah, yeah. You know, it's gatekept in that way, but it's not necessarily the truth. So. Yeah. So you're like an explorer.

Yeah, I suppose so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so you're like an explorer. Yeah, I suppose so. Yeah, yeah. It'll be interesting to see other athletes, you know, do their version of what you experienced and what that might look like. I'm already seeing it, like at least in Australia,

and people have come up to me saying, you inspired me to do this and that. Like that's really cool, you know, if I can inspire someone else to have an experience like I had. I gained so much from my experience in the sport again that I hope others can like do something, do the same thing. I'm just imagining like some 30 year old dude rolling up on you and being like,

you know, I went 55 in the 100 fly when I was 16. What do you think? Should I give that to you? You're like, uh. Oh, is that what I meant? I will say though, I- Masters maybe? I am trying to make, I've not, I've only said this like in a small forum. No, like not for like, not to the make the Olympic team, but I just was so inspired at

Lucas oil by you saw Griebers did it. So I want to make my Olympic trials cut in the hundred breaststroke so I can just to do it and and swim again and just see how it feels. But like, I'm full on committing to doing that a year out. So I think like just seeing for LA, for LA. Yeah. And like deck access, you know, who is the breaststroker? Gabrielle Rose did it too. Yeah.

And breaststroke 46, I'm going to be 39. So I'm going to be spring chicken. Yeah, that's cool. So do you know that there is a athlete here in the Olympics competing in table tennis who is 61? Stop. Wow. Yeah, there was like a Wall Street Journal article about her the other day, yeah.

I don't think that could happen in swimming. Cody's mind's about to explode, he's like, oh, I thought I was done. Table tennis? Maybe. She was like competing in world championships in like the 70s or something like that. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. No.

I think it's like her sixth Olympics or something like that. I don't know. Wow, that's impressive. That's cool. Yeah, man. Rewriting the rules, buddy. Yeah, thanks, man. Meanwhile, go out there, make some music.

You came out with this kid's book, too. Yeah. Thanks. Meanwhile, go out there, make some music. You got your kit. You have, you came out with this kid's book too. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I just dropped a track like last week for the, um, I saw that. It's beautiful by the way. I didn't see that. Yeah. It's called fly. Like I pretty much right off the trials, like jumped in and I'd already written the song, but I jumped in and like produced it and finished it up and like dropped it as a little like theme song for the Australian dolphins. And, um, it was sort of just a timely, it was, it's also a reflection on what I'd been through. So I put that out as just like a little sort of a diary entry on what I'd

just been through and the mindset that it required and all that stuff. And hopefully this sort of give the Aussies a little boost. Yeah. That's cool. It's cool. They put it to like, you know, all the swims and kind of that.

So it's like over, overlaid with that. I got chills. It's great. It's cool. They put it to like, you know, all the swims and kind of that. So it's like over- Put it to a little video, some of the swims. Yeah, I got chills. It's great. It's really great. Thanks. And then Katie, you got the Unfiltered Waters podcast. Yes.

Newly minted. Newly minted. I was talking to him. I'm like, if you could give one piece of advice, you're 12 years in and you're year one, what would you do? So I'm very newly minted, have the podcast with Missy Franklin. And it's been so fun.

Like so many of the athletes that are competing here are actually have been on the podcast. So my goal is just to, you know, that person beneath the athlete type of thing. So that's been really, really rewarding. Let everyone tell their stories. Yeah. And just more of a forum like this, then how'd you feel about that swim type vibe.

So it's been very- Because everyone is filtered usually in those post-race interviews. Exactly. So it's nice to- Yeah, those are tough. Get the unfiltered, so to speak. Yeah, the unfiltered version.

Yeah, it's just like the same thing. The same, yeah, like, oh, I feel good. Yeah, like that's, and I do think- Just want to thank my family. You're like, yeah, I had a great time. It's an honor. I'm like, no, I want like the five layers below that. Yeah, like that's, and I do think- I just want to thank my family. You're like, yeah, I had a great time. It's an honor. I'm like, no, I want like the five layers below that. Yeah, yeah.

So yeah, it's been really fun. Hopefully keep things rolling. All right, well, I think this postcard has been written and is ready for a stamp to be sent across the world. I'm going to let you guys go. Enjoy Paris. Thanks, man. I really appreciate it.

Have a great time. Thank you so much. Great to meet you too. And yeah, maybe I'll see you let you guys go. Enjoy Paris. Thanks, man. I really appreciate it. Have a great time. Thank you so much. Great to meet you. And yeah, maybe I'll see you at the pool tonight. We'll see. Yeah. You going to be out there? I am.

All right. I'll see you. Cool. Thank you.