The Rich Roll Podcast - Postcards From Paris: Elizabeth Beisel, Katie Hoff, & Chris Morgan

Episode Date: July 30, 2024

Direct from Paris, Rich joins 3x Olympian & NBC correspondent Elizabeth Beisel, 2x Olympian & former RRP guest Katie Hoff, and former Swiss Olympic Swimming coach Chris Morgan for a roundtable on the swimming competition, what it's like behind-the-scenes at the games -- and tons more. Watch on YouTube Browse all episodes of The Rich Roll Podcast at: https://www.richroll.com/all-episodes/ Meal Planner: For customized plant-based recipes 👉meals.richroll.com Check out all of the amazing discounts from our Sponsors 👉 richroll.com/sponsors Find out more about Voicing Change Media at voicingchange.media and follow us @voicingchange

The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey everybody, welcome to the podcast. We have a very special edition of the show today because I am in Paris and I'm joined by an illustrious group of amazing individuals to share dispatches from the streets of the city of lights and kind of share what's going on in this very special city right now.

To my right, I've got the wonderful Katie Hoff, friend and friend of the podcast. You know her, two-time Olympian, eight-time world champion. And we are also joined by the amazing Elizabeth Beisel, three-time Olympian, who is here in the capacity as a correspondent, covering the swimming on the deck, talking to the swimmers. Thank you guys for being here.

Stoked to be here. Thanks for having us. Yeah, it's very exciting. And I've got my buddy, Chris Morgan here as well, who I've known since like 1994, we go way back. Chris was the head coach at the 2008 Beijing Olympics for Switzerland, also assistant coach at Harvard. And you're here doing correspondence for French television,

covering swimming as well, which is exciting. So we're gonna talk about swimming. We're gonna talk about what it's like to be in Paris and all the good stuff. I feel very honored to be with all of you today, but I thought we could begin with just like a vibe check. Like what's it like to be here right now, you know, like in this city

while all of this stuff is going on. Oh my gosh. Who wants to start? I mean, I'll say this is my first time back at the Olympics in 16 years. So it's kind of like a really big deal for me to be back and be in the energy and genuinely feel really at peace and excited. And I told someone yesterday,

it's the first time I've really been able to look at the Olympics and look at being an Olympian and be like, wow, this is really cool. And I know that sounds crazy, but I'm like- Because when you're here competing, your blinders are on and you're just so focused on your goal. You're not able to actually take the whole experience in. Correct.

I wanna piggyback off of that moment because I've been at the pool nonstop. It's like, this is my first time out of the pool. So I feel so, I'm like, oh my God, I'm actually embarrassed. Like I'm just on a classic like swimming trip. It's like hotel pool, hotel pool. So this is awesome.

But the first session of swimming, to your point, I was watching warmup and I was like, these are the best swimmers in the world. Like how lucky am I to be watching these best swimmers in the world? And then I went to thought number two and I was like, oh, that was me. Like, wait, that was, I'm sorry. What? Like, and Rich, you were so right. You have the blinders on. You never appreciate what you did while you were an athlete. So for me, similar to you, it's been so cathartic to kind of appreciate what I did in my last chapters of life as an athlete and now try to do them justice and give them everything that they deserve as now on the broadcast side of the sport, but also appreciate like, that was me.

My God, I worked hard. I was good. Which you would never say is not, at least a swimmer. But to have that perspective, that can only come with time, right? Because there's so much pressure when you're an athlete, like you can't let your guard down too much. And your life is very restricted,

right? You're in the village and I'm sure there's a lot of fun shit happening there, et cetera. But you're at the village, you take the bus to the venue, you do your thing and you go back and you're going to bed early and like the whole deal, right? You're not appreciating, at least I didn't until now. Yeah. What about you, Chris? Yeah. You know, it's really interesting just, and we were speaking before being, being an American and being, you know, a patriot, but living, living abroad for 15 years and now being able to speak French and kind of hear the whispers in the corridors of what, what the French speaking people are feeling and thinking about this. It's pretty neat, you know, cause you get a little insight to maybe something and French

people are, they're very emotional. They like to talk. So it's neat to hear that. And in addition to being with the French TV, I'm also over at the Oli House, which is the World Olympians Association. So there's all kinds of people and they love swimming. Like everyone last night after the finals,

people are watching the replay of the finals. Like swimming is the thing this week. So it's really neat to see everyone and talking to the people in line that are just don't know swimming, but they're there to support their country. So it's really cool. Right. So we're recording this on Monday.

What is the date? The 29th. So last night was a big night at the pool for France because Leon Marchand won the 400 individual medley. And that is like not a small thing to do that in Paris with such a young, talented, like up and coming, like rising star in the sport. I think two of the best 400 Islanders here.

Yeah, I know, right? Probably for them, you know, you know the pressure. You guys know a little bit about the 400 Island between the two of you. Between the two of us, too many. But no, I am. Between the two of you. Between the two of us. Too many. But no, last night, were either of you guys at the pool? I wasn't.

I know you weren't. You were at the pool. It was maybe the loudest arena that I had ever been in. And it was every single stroke that Leon took. The breaststroke was like. The breaststroke was nuts. And even Leon said it himself. Like, just for somebody to peak at an Olympics that is being hosted on their home soil, like that has got to be one of the most incredible feelings.

Like we never had a home Olympics. No. Unless we, I mean, I'm asking if we could come back. I mean, my God, is it too late? We got four years, girl. It's a whole new world, you guys. Listen, I swear, when I'm at that pool and I'm watching, I'm like, you know what?

Could I? Yeah, I get that like sneaky little thought. You look at the times, you're like, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what Katie and I were going, we'd still be up there. It's competitive right now, right?

We could be on the podium. But then I also have the thought of like, well, I know what the four years look like. Yeah. Maybe I'm tapped out. Especially the four that I am. Give people a sense of what that four years actually does look like. Cause I'm not sure. I mean, people understand like elite athletes at that level, they have to live this monk-like existence. But in particular, with respect to swimming, my sense is that it's really kind of at a different level,

right? The monk-like existence of being a swimmer, especially in an event like the 400 IM that is so demanding and rigorous, like what does that life look like? You go. Oh, I mean, it's nonstop, like not only physically,

but you're just thinking about it constantly. I feel like the only reprieve you get is maybe on a Saturday afternoon, because then Sunday you're like, I have Monday morning practice and I'm thinking about it again. And so it's so funny, like even people here, they're like, oh, are you still competing?

And I'm like standing there with a cocktail in my hand. I'm like, do you think that's how it works? Like you're out with a drink and I'm, oh, I'm competing tomorrow. So it's, I mean, it's for four years, it's nonstop. And then I think a lot of people also think like, oh, well, it's every four years. Like you have benchmarks, you have world championships yearly. So you come back from the Olympics and you're leading into the next quad, you're preparing

for world championship trials in eight months. There's not really, the train doesn't really stop on the road to the next Olympics. And so for me, it was just all consuming all the time. How am I going to get better? You know, what am I going to do with my body? What am I going to do with recovery? So it's just, it can be overwhelming. Yeah. It's, and then that event, the 400 IM, it's like, there's obviously different ways to train and we'll, we'll get into the nitty gritty of that in a minute. But, um, the 400 IM, which is the event that Katie and I swam, is kind of the decathlon of swimming. It's like, for those that are just like swimmer friendly or swimming friendly, it's 100 fly, 100 back, 100 breast, 100 free.

So 100 of every stroke. And it's grueling. And you have to train like a distance swimmer in order to be good at this event. And it's relentless. It never stops. swimmer in order to be good at this event. And it's relentless. It never stops. Whereas, and I'm not saying like one event is easier than the other, but one event is a little bit more sustainable than the other. So like swimming a sprint event, like a 50 free or a hundred free, you can probably push into your thirties and still be at the top of your game at the Olympics.

Whereas I, I didn't see a single 30 yearold plus in that final last night in the men's, and there certainly won't be in the women's. And I think it's cool because the body is so interesting. But it goes back to her point. It's like, yeah, I would love to swim in L.A. at a home Olympics. But in the foreign tonight. In the back of your mind, could I pull this off? And I'm like, no,'t know if you don't try.

I'm not saying it's going to happen at all. But I mean, the amount of times we've looked at each other in a ready room and been like, oh, my God. You know, like whatever we call it, 400 IM stomach. It's just like so grueling. And you know what you're in for. You're like about to go to battle. And you're like, this is about to be, I'm about to be in so much pain, whether it's a good race, a bad race, a middle of the road race. It's just going to be in so much pain, whether it's a good race, a bad race, a middle of the road race, it's just gonna be really painful.

What is it like in that green room environment right before you walk out for a final and everybody's sort of sizing each other up, there's definitely like a tension or an intensity in the air. Are people playing mind games with each other? Are you just focusing on your own race, like visualizing it? Like, what did that, like visualizing it? Like,

what does that look, what did that look like for you guys? And what do you think, what is, what is going on when you see, you know, visuals of that, you know, at this meet in particular? I would say that room separates the good from the great, because that is where it's like, all about the mental game. Yeah. Because every single athlete at the Olympics is physically prepared. The hay is in the barn, the work is done. But those few minutes leading up to a race where your mindset is either, I'm going to kick ass and this is mine, like come and get it. Or you kind of crumble under the pressure of this is my once every four years chance to make a name for myself, to get sponsorships, to feed myself. Like, I think that's maybe one thing that we can dive into is just like,

swimming is awesome, but it does happen all year round, not just once every four years. But we make negative dollars swimming. Like, none of us are really in it for the money. But when money comes around, it's crucial to kind of capitalize on that. And so in the ready room,

all of these things are lightly in the back of your mind and it's up to you to like, where are you shining that flashlight? Are you shining your flashlight on the negative thoughts or the positive thoughts? But I think I always was so comforted when you were in a ready room with me because I knew we were always on the same wavelength.

Same page. Same page. We knew it was going to suck. Yeah, we didn't even have to say it. Yeah, and this is one of my best friends. Like, of course, we both want to win, but a win for Katie is also a win for me. And I think that's something that Team USA does. Like, we have a really great mindset in terms of that.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting to see, like, when I watch it on TV, like the different personalities, because everyone's going to handle it differently. Like you have the people that are more showboaty and that's their way of showing their nerves. You know, like I think Lily King told the story of where she just stared at FNOVA, like stared, like stood behind her and just stared until she made eye contact with her. Like I could never do that. That would not be my way. There's then there's the people joking around and like you saw Ledecky and Titmuss like smiling and talking with each other. And then you have the people that are just like blank staring down. So it's interesting to see how people show their nervousness.

And I don't think there's one good way or the other, but it's finding how you let the nerves out in like a positive way and not just sit there and get to the dark side. But I think all of those signals are very subtle in swimming in comparison to track and field. Like I was watching the Olympic trials for track and field and yeah, Noah Lyles comes out and it is pure theater. Like it's a performance art when he was doing.

I actually met him yesterday. You know, he's got the kit dialed and he pulls out the Yu-Gi-Oh card and shows it to the camera and he's doing a dance. And then before the finals, walking out with Snoop Dogg in his like, you know, suit and he's got the metal briefcase and it's gonna be the big reveal.

I mean, this guy has thought through every, and it would be one thing to do that and not perform, but to do that and then win, like that's what gets the average person like excited about a sport that they might not be that familiar with. And I think those athletes really understand it, whether it's Sha'Carri Richardson or Noah

and some of the other people. And I feel like we could use a little bit of that in swimming, like it would be fun. I mean, Lilly King kind of is that for us a little bit. Like she loves, you know, she was like doing the finger wag. And like, I think that's also why she received so much negative feedback because the swimming world wasn't ready for it.

They were like, wait, you're talking smack and you're doing all this stuff. Like we don't have people like that, but I think we should. Well, we did at one time. I mean, Chris and I come from the generation where Gary Holt Jr. is coming out doing the boxing and the Muhammad Ali and he's draped in the robe.

True, that was a four, that's true. Yeah, I think we need a little injection of that. We're all just goody two shoes. We're just brown nosers. We're all friends and we all love each other. But I so, you know what, I so agree with that because like being here with NBC, it's tough because, and I'm guilty of this. You're guilty of this.

Like we do not allow ourselves to be accessed by the media. We as in when we're athletes, at least 72 hours before we start competition as swimmers at the Olympics. And I'm like, NBC is kind of like, can't we get access to these athletes? Like, we want to tell their stories. We want to showcase them.

Like, this is the once every four years, to your point, that we get to kind of tell these stories and show these people what they're made of and how exciting it is. And it's, I don't know when it's going to change. I think swimming is always a little bit far behind, but like I'm interviewing some park skaters the day before their race or their race, their competition. And they're like, yeah, what's up? Like we're gonna, did you see the clip where the skateboarders bus broke down and then they all

just got out and said, no worries. We'll just skate there. We're gonna skate to the rink, yeah. That is like pure gold. Yeah. Stuff like that. Those moments. That's, and I think that's where swimming needs to shift towards. I think it's definitely gonna move at a glacial pace, but I do think the more like pump and circumstance

we get is better. Chris, from a coaching perspective, back to the ready room, kind of green room, like what is the counsel that you give your athletes or have given your athletes at a heightened experience like the Olympic games to get their head straight so they don't get freaked out? Yeah, I mean, that's a great question.

I mean, I tapped into a lot of what my mentors taught me. And you have to adapt to their personality, the athlete. I mean, I know Elizabeth when she's in the radio, I mean, she's pretty giggly. And then what we didn't talk about is the famous, the Phelps face, right? Yeah. Because when that happened and that was in,

I think it was in Rio in 2016. And that became like Jimmy Fallon was talking about it. So many gifts, so many memes. It was great for our sport to have the Phelps face. But when you know Michael, as we all do, the Phelps face, right? But I think it was just teaching

them what, based on their personality and certainly calming the nerves. Ironically, just this morning before going in at a nice cafe au lait and was sitting next to David Berkoff and I said, how is she? And he said, how is she? And he said, she is nervous, but, and there was the but,

and it was really interesting to hear from father, coach, Olympic gold medalist in the same event. And then she qualified first this morning. So, you know, even what is a coach father counsel, you know, basically it's just, I think it's just calming, calming the soul, right. Of, of that athlete. And with one of, um, you know, an athlete who I worked with in 2008, Dominique Mike, who in the pre in the ready room before his prelims, when, when he qualified first,

I mean, he was like Elizabeth, he was kind of laughing and, you know, moving around chatting people who's a Swiss kid. Right. And then he qualifies first. And then that created a whole another, uhher cinema after with some of the American coaches I know. But yeah, I think really it's just, and we're nervous as coaches, right? When you look at some of the personalities of coaches like Dean Boxall, the coach of, I mean, I love it.

Like I just love watching it just because he's going nuts in the stands, right? It looks like he's at a rock concert. And then there was a famous French coach named Philippe Luca when he was coaching Laura Manadou back in 2004. I mean, he was like straight face and scary. Remember the chains he would wear? Yeah, the chains.

Still wears, right? Yeah, still wears. And I think that persona, that personality of the coach can also help. Maybe it's helping, I don't pronounce her name right, but Ariane is probably part of her vibe in the ready room comes from Dean, right? So I think we as coaches need to also be not only mentors and soothe our athletes,

but also be aware that our personality can affect what the media thinks, what other people think, what other swimmers think, what other coaches think. How their athletes feel. Yeah. Yeah.

Right? I'd be fired up. I'd swim for Dean. You mentioned Dean think. How their athletes feel. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I'd be fired up. I'd swim for Dean. You mentioned Dane. I couldn't do it. Yeah. That's not the right energy for me.

Yeah. Like I wouldn't, I would need someone. Dean is the Australian coach. Yes. A variant tennis. Yeah. I just think. Maybe I'll just go to a rock concert with him. Yeah.

I'm just saying like, I don't want that. Because what is, for people that aren't steeped in swimming, why, like, what is it about his disposition? Oh, he goes, what would you say, Katie? He's going nuts. He's doing like jumping jacks. He goes bananas. Absolute bananas.

In the stands with all the- In the stands, which I kind of just want it to be about Arjan. True, yeah. You know, like I feel like at that point, it's about the swimmer and I just feel like I would want it to be about the swimmer. And I think the cameras always go to him. So that's my only thought on that. That's a good point, it's about the swimmer. And I just feel like I would want it to be about the swimmer. And I think the cameras always go to him.

So that's my only thought on that. That's a good point. You mentioned Dave Berkoff, former world record holder in the 100 backstroke, sole 1988 gold medalist. Did he win the gold? Silver individually and gold in the relay. Gold in the relay, right.

Pioneered the underwater dolphin kick back in the day before they had the 15 meter rule. And he basically swam the entire 100 meters on the water. But he was really at the forefront of pioneering what is now basically what everyone does, which is work on their underwater dolphin kick because it's so much faster than it is swimming on the surface.

But what people who don't really follow swimming closely might not know is that this incredible champion who went to Harvard, his daughter is now on the Olympic team and qualified for first quarter finals this evening, which is kind of an amazing thing. Is that her first time under 58? I'm not sure, but it's a good time for her.

Yeah, great time. And I actually got to speak to her after the race and I was like, holy shit. And she was like, I don't sure, but it's a good time for her. Yeah, great time. And I actually got to speak to her after the race and I was like, holy shit. And she was like, I don't know where that came from, but it felt amazing. Oh, that's the best. And that's like, those are the best because that's that confidence boost that you need

at the biggest event of your life to know like, oh, I got it in prelims. Like I'm only going to get better from here. Especially when dad said she was nervous a couple hours before. Easy speed. Easy speed. We love an easy speed one.

Explain what easy speed is for people that aren't swimmers. It's just like, you know when you go on a run and you just get that like runner's high and it's just easy and you're like,

oh, I could keep going. It's similar to that where you just don't ever tire out and you just feel at ease the entire race. Never happens for us. I was going to say, I don't think I've ever,

I ran a marathon and I never got i was promised this runner's high but i have felt easy speed in swimming yeah i feel like it's like yeah you're it feels effortless and then you come into the wall and the time is way faster than you could have ever imagined and so just everything it's like what is that everything, it's like, what is that flow state? It's like the athletic version of a flow state. I think some swimmers say after is that's when they think, man, I should have gone faster. Yes. And it's like, I don't know if you could have. Right. Because you were in that flow state. Because I think what people who aren't swimmers have a hard time understanding is that, is that the best swimmers know how to make the water

work for them. So it's not about fighting the water or muscling your way through it. It's not about like, you know, just like turning and burning as hard as you can. It's about like this, this ease that you feel when, when you're making the water work for you.

And, and yeah, and it feels like, oh, I could have gone faster, but had you kind of tensed up and tried to make that happen, you actually probably would have gone slower. Yeah. I have like, I've done that like in a prelim and been like, oh my gosh, that was so easy. And then I worked a hundred times harder at night and when like a 10th faster, but I could barely get out of the water. Like it's the most, I think it's one of the most frustrating things in swimming. Speaking of Australia,

let's talk about the Australia-USA rivalry. There's been a lot of press, a lot of ink spilled about this rivalry. It's legendary in many ways. And it was sort of heightened in the wake of the Australia and USA Olympic trials, because there was some smack talk around the whole cowbell thing. So for people who don't know what that is,

maybe one of you guys could take a crack at just explaining that. You want me to try? Yeah. All right, so. I'll just say, I actually don't know if you and I, Missy and I talked about this. I don't know if you and I agree on our thoughts on this. So I'm very curious to see.

Rich, you're welcome. House divided here, I see. I don't know. All right, so here's what happened. The skinny is Kate Campbell, who is a multiple time Olympian for Australia, made some comments back in the spring about how she just hated how many times

she had to hear the national anthem at the last Olympics and the last world championships, how we ring an infernal cowbell, which was her words. Infernal. Infernal cowbell. And it's like a tradition. Like when we send our athletes off to the ready room right before their race, we infernal cowbell. And it's, it's like a tradition. Like when we send our

athletes off to the ready room, right before their race, we ring a cowbell, we chant USA, we'll chant Katie's name, whatever it is. It's just like, we're your hype squad. Like we want you going to the ready room, feeling loved, feeling supported. And basically once she made those comments, they went viral. And that's when a lot of the US swimmers like Michael, like a lot of people. There's videos of Michael, like holding a phone, watching this to gauge his like real time reaction to this.

And you mentioned Phelps face, right? Like he's just like, oh, this is a gift. Like if Michael were still swimming, game over. He's not even swimming and he's like, blah, fired up. He's so like, like if Michael were still swimming, game over. He's not even swimming and he's like, I'm fired up. So he's like red. Okay, wait. So now I want to hear your opinion

and then I'll give you mine. So I guess I just feel like it's been, first of all, this happened last year. Like she was interviewed almost a year ago and then it kind of made this resurgence. And I just feel like, and they haven't done it as much

as I thought they were going to do it, NBC, which I'm glad, is because I feel like the people commenting on it and the people that have issue with it aren't competing. And so I feel like it's cloud, it almost, I was worried and they haven't done it, that the storyline was going to cloud everything else, like the coverage of the swimmers. And I just felt like it was blown way out of proportion. That is my opinion on it. And I don't disagree. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Um, and I, so that, that kind of annoyed me. I'm like, don't pull this out of proportion. Kate Campbell's actually friends with a lot of the U S swimmers and like, yes, she made that comment. But if you watch her followup interview, it wasn't really, she's like, no, like part of it was just like joking around. Like that's how the Aussies talk.

She's cheeky. Yeah. She's like, I, she was like, I guess the U S doesn't have a sense of humor. Like she was kind of just trash talking, but we've been trash talking with the Aussies for decades. So I just felt like I was like, okay, it doesn't need to be so heightened, but that's just my opinion. No. And we love the Aussies. That's the thing. Like there are best friends on the pool day. At least when we were swimming. I have a tattoo with one of them. Yeah, literally the person that you raced in the 4 a.m. You are best friends with, have a tattoo with them. Like that's the swimming world. Whereas like maybe in other worlds, it's not the same.

It's hard to hate a culture that loves swimming so much. And you go to Australia and it's just all about swimming there. And it's a really beautiful thing, but I love the rivalry. I vividly remember the Australian relay with Michael Klim and the- In 2000. Yeah, the guitars. It's the real days where, you know,

this all really kind of comes out. And we got to see it the other night with the men's four by 100 relay with which USA won. And then the women's version of that, which Australia won. So this is like keeping that tension and that rivalry. Keeping everything in check. Yeah.

Oh yes. Yes. It's alive. But what is it like, like on the deck with the swim when you're, when you're, I mean, you're there like seeing it all like firsthand as it's unfolding in real

time. Yeah. It's like any normal meet that we like the team USA warmup area in the back pool, which nobody really ever sees is pretty close to the Aussies. And it's like business as usual, like cowbells team USA cheers, like we're not changing anything. Um, but like I'm in the mix zone. So I get all the athletes when they walk by me and like, I'm saying good job to all of them. Like they all deserve a good job. So I'm like, if Kayla McEwen is going to walk by me, I'm going to say, dude, that was an awesome swim. But there's like, there's always a rivalry, whether it's USA versus Australia

or Great Britain or China, Russia, whatever. But I do, I mean, I love the story for how long it goes back, especially like 2000 Sydney Olympics. Like it's fun. And I appreciate a good rivalry but I think people need to also understand it's like yes on paper huge rivalry but in person homies yeah yeah like yeah yeah friends hanging out like it's it's it's not there's no animosity I think that's my issue with it maybe I am too goody two-shoes should be more like, yes, let's go. Maybe Switzerland over here, she's okay with that. I just, I just, yeah. You're literally Switzerland.

Yeah, you are Switzerland. I would still take a side though. I would still take a side. So if you don't know, Elizabeth is the person who is on deck, who's grabbing the interviews with the athletes, like essentially right after they finish. Like, so if you're watching the coverage on Peacock or NBC, and some swimmer has just won a gold medal,

and you did this at the Olympic trials as well, you're the first person that they're talking to basically, before they even get to see their friends or their coach or anything like that. And it's always hilarious to me because there's, even if it's just the 50 free, like they're so winded, you know, like, it's like, they're not ready to talk to anyone yet.

And your job is to like get something interesting out of them immediately. And as somebody who's a podcast host, I'm like, how do you think of what's the right question to ask? How do you come up with this? And you know, how do you, what is your strategy for getting something compelling out of these athletes in the immediate, like I'm talking

immediate aftermath of them having like, you know, done something magical. Yeah. It's, it's definitely a privilege to be in the seat that I'm in. Um, and I'm sharing the position with Melissa Stark. So I'm doing the prelims, she's doing the finals and we'll switch. Like I did a few finals last night, but, um, it's one of those things where I've been in the athlete position so many times. I want to do them right and not ask them a basic question like, how does it feel to win a gold medal? Like, can we put some effort in, please? So what I'll do is like, I'll learn Katie Hoff's story. Like what sets her apart? What's different about her? I'll learn her personality through scrolling through her social media or watching previous interviews that she's done. Like, I just, I want to be so prepared and make

them feel like, oh, this person actually cares about me and my swimming. And you'll always get a better interview. Like if you showed up to this unprepared, like it would be fine, but it wouldn't be great. And so for me, it's like a lot of these people are also my peers. So I also respect them so much because I'm friends with them. And I do think there's an element of, like I might have kind of an edge on everybody else just because I have that rapport with them. But there's a lot that goes into

a two to three question interview. And I love it. Like I want, and here's the thing about swimmers and I make a conscious effort in doing this in every interview that I do, regardless of who it is. Swimmers are so humble. They hate like talking about what they just did.

Like if Katie Hoff breaks a world record and I'm the first person to interview her and I just started off with something basic, like tell me about that race, which has happened to us far too many times. You're like, and you broke a world record, but you would never be like breaking a world. Like you would never bring it up. So my thing is like, Katie Hoff, you just broke a world record. Like the up, the last three years have been so up and down for you. Like I kind of like team up just so they don't feel like they have to boast about themselves and maybe that's me projecting

but um I love it you're like the ultimate hype girl I know I'm like we should be hype like this shouldn't be a basic interview like my god I'm talking to you before you're talking to your wife at home like I better do you justice so that that's why I'm like, keep the energy high. Well you got the right energy. You're coming in hot. I do, I do. Sometimes when I get the more like quiet introverted ones, they're like, it was good.

Maybe not like rowdy energy, but like you're, you know, like rowdy's on a whole different level. Oh, he's like 10 octaves above his normal talking voice. Like he's the best. Maybe we can go around to each of you. I'm curious which story, and it doesn't necessarily have to be swimming,

but maybe it could be swimming. Like what's the story that has you the most excited, but one maybe that you feel like isn't getting as much attention. Like not the one that's the headlines, but like, man, this story I think is really cool over here. I wanna draw people's attention to it. It could be an athlete. It could be, but like, man, this story I think is really cool over here. I want to draw people's attention to it. It could be an athlete. It could be, you know, is there anything that comes to mind

for that? It's a tough one. I'm thinking more about like, maybe not a particular athlete, but what happens behind the scenes for these athletes. And I know that it's like circulating around social media, but I don't think the gen pop really understands like these athletes are on an hour and a half bus ride to the pool and then an hour and a half bus ride back oh and then they do it again for finals so they're on a bus for six hours a day at the olympics the food in the village is not amazing. Like I know you love to talk about fueling and just like what you're putting in your body. You're expected to compete at the highest level you've ever competed at and they're running out of food. Oh, is that true? Are they? Oh, really? Oh,

I didn't know that. They're running out of food. See, that's why we're here, Rich. Amazing. Like one of the athletes- Not amazing, but- Yeah, not amazing, but- Amazing from a story perspective. Right. And like one of the athletes. Not amazing. Yeah, not amazing. Not amazing from a story perspective. Right. And like one of the athletes I was talking to on Team USA the other day, they got back from finals, which in Paris time are late because we're trying to cater as much as we can to East Coast prime time. So they're getting back to the village around 1 to 2 a.m. And the only thing left in the village cafeteria was bread rolls and sardines. Wow.

That's insane. And that's what these athletes are fueling themselves on. And then they have to get up at what time to get to prelims in the morning. Prelims are at 11, so they're a little later, but still you're up at seven, activating, eating, like waking up. So I think like that's a story.

They're on those cardboard beds. I hear they're not the worst. They're not? There's been a lot of TikToks and a lot of videos made about that. A lot. So I think it's a lot of behind the scenes stuff that like maybe isn't getting told on broadcast.

Yeah, because you know, the literal motto of the Olympics, I feel like is expect the unexpected. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and it's so different than trials., I feel like, is expect the unexpected. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, and it's so different than trials. Like, I think, like, for me, like, I swam the exact same schedules in 2008 at Olympic trials and the Olympics. But the Olympics was so much more exhausting because not only do you have the transportation, but, like, you're getting, like, for the distance swims, you're getting blood tested, so they test EPO. Like, that's a whole other factor.

Like, you know, cause you hate needles, but like there's so many factors at the Olympics that are added on that don't happen at the trials that I think at least from my experience, I didn't factor in because how do you know until you're there? And if you're succeeding and you have a packed schedule cause you're doing multiple events on top of that,

there's all these media obligations as well, right? So you're doing interviews and interviews and interviews. So that's cutting into your rest and recovery time as well. Yeah. Which is crucial. I mean, you know, as a coach. Yeah, definitely. And I think just talking about what you said, even with Team USA is, you know, without mentioning a name and I applaud the people who made this decision for one of the U.S. top swimmers is they're now in a hotel across the street. Yep, yeah. Just to make things easier. Yeah.

You know, even one of the U.S. open water swimmers, I know it's like, it's a grind, right? They're trying to just train, still train, get the training in, but come watch finals. I mean, it is brutal, brutal. Speaking of open water, how are we feeling about the send? No bueno. I know.

It doesn't. I was looking during opening ceremonies, I was like, wait, so all these boats, are they not ejecting pollution into the sand? Like, did they just clean it and now they're polluting it again? But it's not the entire sand, there's that one section

that I think they're trying to keep clean for the purpose of doing a loop for the open water swim and for the triathlon. And it seems to be a very fluid situation in that every day they're testing it. They put a lot of money into like some filtration thing and these bypasses and stuff like that to clean up this historically very dirty river.

And they had gotten to the point where it had passed enough tests like two weeks ago that the mayor and a select group of people like jumped in. There was a lot of media around that to prove that it was clean. And then it rained like two days in a row and then it wasn't clean. And that was the day that the triathletes

were reconing the course. And they were then told like, no, you can't get in. So I think it's a day-to-day thing, whether it's gonna be clean enough for that. If it's not, then the triathlon becomes a biathlon, which would be really tragic. Oh my God. Because they can't change the rest of the course.

The open water swimming, I think they have a backup plan to move it somewhere else. They have a backup plan. Oh, that's good. But yeah, it's this day-to-day thing. And I think it opens a broader conversation around just Paris in general. And for people that aren't here,

what it's like to actually be here. I think there is to this idea that maybe there's some misconceptions. Like the athlete village isn't like in the city center. It's sort of distant in a way. It's not like you walk out of your dorm and you go across the street to the pool. Like it's these long bus rides, but in the city center, particularly like in on the north side of the Seine,

it's incredibly quiet. Like the streets are empty. And there was a sense like, oh, Paris is gonna be overrun, it's gonna be mobbed, it's gonna be impossible to get around. And I've been here for two weeks and it's been an absolute delight, super easy to get around, no crowds.

And so I don't know if that's gonna change cause we're still just a couple of days into the games, but you would almost have, like if you're a kilometer north of the Seine in one of these neighborhoods, you might not even know that the Olympics are even going on. It's like business as usual. It's strange, right? It's so, I mean, where swimming is, I mean, I took a Metro to get to where we are right now to record. It was only 30 minutes, but we're north of the Seine and it's in a place called La Défense.

And it is just like people, I'm right at the subway or the metro station, and people are coming and going from work. Like, it literally is just a normal day. And, like, of course, there's crowds outside of the arena when the swimming is happening. But otherwise, Rich, I totally agree. I am a Parisian person now. I know my way around the city. I got my coffee shop.

I feel like I live here. I know. I'm like getting better at French. Not that great. The way you just said that sounded so fancy. Yeah, I feel like, because I think about Beijing or even Athens and it was just like,

it was very clear that the Olympic games were there. There were boards up, all these things. But yeah, I feel like I woke up for a run yesterday morning and I'm like, where is everybody? It's like 8 a.m. right now. What's happening? But it is a later kind of city. And it was Sunday morning.

I had the same experience though. You're like, wow, it's like a ghost town. I know, I'm like, I can just see. But the Olympics are happening here, right? I know, I know. It's kind of nice though. I know, I'm like, I can just not go. But the Olympics are happening here, right? I know, I know. It's kind of nice though. I feel like they've done a great, and maybe it's intentional

and we're all thinking that it's just happenstance, but like, it's really nice that it's not. I also don't feel like we're displacing the people, which I always feel like happens at an Olympic Games. Although I think part of the reason it feels empty is a lot of Parisians just got out of town. Oh, they're probably Airbnb-ing their flats. They are.

Just having lived here or in Europe for 15 years, know a lot of Parisian people and even have a friend who lives right next to the start of the open water swim if it happens. He's like, come over, we'll have some drinks, we'll sit on the balcony and watch. I'm like, you know what,

rather than using the credential, I think I'm going to go sit on the balcony and have a couple cocktails and watch the open water swim. A thousand percent,, you know what? Rather than using the credential, I think I'm gonna go sit on the balcony and have a couple of cocktails and watch. A thousand percent. And you'll probably have a better view because you're up high. Did you guys, sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead.

I think one thing that's really interesting just about being calm is, you know, not to bring it up, but if you really look the number of police, gendarmes and other countries is formidable. Yeah. Is the word I use. There's a lot to get around. And walking around with, you know, literally,

and not to bring it up, but just, you know, with guns that are ready to be used. Finger on the trigger. Finger on the trigger. Ready to go. I would agree with that, but I would provide a caveat, which is, yes, there are clusters of security everywhere you go.

They sort of gather in groups of four or five, whether it's gendarmerie or military, but I don't have the sense that it's like a high alert situation. No, no, it's not intimidating. They're kind of like joking and they're very approachable. You'll see this like really cute young woman

and she's got, she's like in her, her, her, like, you know, uniform and everything like that. And you're like, oh, how nice. Except, you know, she's, she's carrying a gigantic rifle. I don't have a sense that like they're ready to shoot anybody. You know, it's just like, it's like, it's a sense of like. Protection. Like I feel like I actually, which sounds weird.

Like I walked past like 12 of them last night. I'm like, I feel a sense of like, yeah. Protection, like I feel like, I actually, which sounds weird, like I walked past like 12 of them last night. I'm like, I feel protected. I feel at ease, which is a weird feeling when you walk by that many guns. But I'm like, I feel like they're all so friendly. They're all so nice. I'm like showing them. I was like taking photos with them, like the first day I got here

and I went out on a run, I ran by Notre Dame and there was a whole bunch of them and they were like, hey, hey, hey. And I thought I was like in the wrong place and I was in trouble. And they're like, no, will you take a photo of us or whatever and then I took a selfie with them. Oh, that's awesome.

I wanna say something actually about the people that are here in Paris. Like I think there's such a stereotype of, oh, Parisians absolutely hate Americans. I have had such a wonderful experience. And like, I've definitely tried. Like when I go into a coffee shop, like I do try to order in French.

They know immediately I'm not. But just the effort. But I think the effort like really goes a long way. And I've had, like, I cannot wait to come back and like play tourist because I love this place. Like it's been amazing. Yeah, everyone's helpful. We stereotype and having, again, I cannot wait to come back and like play tourist because I love this place. Like it's been amazing. Yeah, everyone's helpful.

We stereotype and having again lived- You've lived a long time. And when foreigners come to the US and growing up in the Bay Area, it's like, you don't speak English? But they're trying, right? They're trying to speak English, they have a thick accent. And I think, and this might sound horrible to say,

but I think I call it innocent ignorance of most Americans, and having now lived, all French people want is that you just try. And then if you don't try, they're like, okay, okay, and then they'll speak their best English. So, yeah, Parisians are great. They're great. They're kind of like New Yorkers, but they speak French.

No, I love it. I've had a great time. If anything, like, I speak to waiters and restaurateurs and stuff like that, and they're experiencing like a downturn in their business. So it's one thing if you're in one of those protected zones close to the river, where they're kind of really trying to keep people at bay.

And there's been a lot, like a lot of people are like, you know, you can't do anything in Paris. Like you see on social media, it's like, you can't move around, it's terrible. It's the worst thing ever. It's not really true. It's you're minorly inconvenience. But if you are a business owner in one of those zones

or approximate to one of those zones, you're suffering. But even in the neighborhoods, like around where we are right now and north of the San, they were expecting to be like overrun with business. And it's like, yeah, it's like not really. So I don't know whether that's a pure attendance thing or what's happening, but, and I've never been to an Olympiad before, so I don't know by comparison. This is your first? Yeah.

Oh, I did not know that. That's really cool. And the irony is that I'm running around doing all kinds of stuff like this that I'm, I'm, I'm less apprised of what's actually happening in the competition than I would be if I was sitting at home watching it all until- Are you gonna get to go to anything? Yeah, I'm gonna be going. I'm going to swimming and track and field.

You guys, I'm trying to get a ticket for tonight. I still haven't been able to get one. Yeah. Yeah. We can pull some strings. Maybe, anyway. We can pull some strings. We'll talk about that later.

Anyway, yeah, but I am going to be, you know, attending some events. I just haven't been able to yet. So I can't wait to do that. I think it's like, you know, the stands are full, right? Swimming, it's packed. Yeah, you can't get tickets. The tickets are sold out for everything.

So it's not like you're, yeah. I went by on the way to swimming last night and saw archery and it was packed. Amazing. Which is so cool. I mean, and it's not anything negative about and saw archery and it was packed. Amazing. For women's archery, I mean, and it's not anything negative about women's archery. Koreans won as usual. But then the Mexican team got third

and they were going. It was awesome. I think they were like taking tequila shots on the street. As they should be. As they should be. That's amazing. One of the things that I think is really cool about this Team USA in swimming is that it is an interesting mix of veterans and up-and and comers. It's not dominated by all new people

and it's not dominated by the stars we've always known. It's like this hybrid, right? So you have Caleb Dressel and you've got... Ryan Murphy. Ryan Murphy and you've got Katie Ledecky and these people that have been around for a long time. And then you have all of these new names and to see them together on relays

and kind of the mentorship of the old guard with the new people coming up, I think is really cool. I don't know, is it always that way? This feels like, it feels a little bit different in that regard. You can speak to it better because you were actually at camp, but from an outsider looking in,

it looks like, the team looks like it has way more chemistry than when I was swimming. Yeah. It just feels like there's more like we're going to help each other versus we're in tunnel vision and we're all out for ourselves. For our own individual events. Yeah. Yeah. I do think that that's been a cultural shift for sure.

For sure. And you, I mean, for the listeners, I'll brag on Katie. Like, her first Olympic team, she was a fresh 15-year-old in 2004. Well, both of you were 15 when you made your first Olympic team, right? Well, I know, but we're talking about Katie here, okay? No, she's like, basically what she means by fresh 15 is, like, super naive and homeschooled. No, I meant you just turned 15. You have an early June birthday, whatever. Six months after that, but okay.

You just turned 15. You have an early June birthday, whatever. So you were six months after that, but okay. Anyways, I think there is something to be said for like being a 15-year-old on a team with a bunch of 20-something-year-olds and like, how do you relate to a teenager that doesn't even have a license and like make them feel welcomed?

And I think that happened enough times in a row with you and me and Ledecky and Missy that like we kind of adopted these teenage kids, like literal kids onto the team. And it, it helped shift the culture. And like even Michael in 2000, he was 15. So I think we had a run of like four Olympics where we always had a 15 year old on the team. And I do think that helped the cultural shift to where we are now, where it's like, we don't care your age.

We don't care where you're from. Like you have a seat at this table at the Olympic team and we're gonna make you feel like you belong here. Cause I know you and I definitely did not feel like we belonged. No, we just felt almost like ostracized a little bit. Yeah. So I feel like now, and maybe it's social media,

but just like watching like camp and watching them all do their TikToks. And like, I just feel like they're all having so much fun and it's not just like these segregated clicks. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Speaking of TikToks, my new favorite Olympian is this female rugby player, Alona Marr. She is a superstar.

She's hysterical. She has exploded. I don't know how many Instagram followers she had before the Olympics, but she now has like over like 1.3 or something like that. Yeah, she crushed a million. In like a couple days because she's making these amazing videos.

And like my daughters are like, you gotta see this woman. And everybody's talking about her. Like it's such a cool thing for an athlete in a sport that probably doesn't get enough recognition or anchor attention to come in and then like, just, she's so made for these videos, right? And it's like telling these stories from the village. She's so funny and fantastic.

The villa. The villa. The villa. Have you seen, you know what I'm talking about? No, it's fantastic. We need somebody to do that for swimming. But again, back to the earlier point we made, no swimmer's going to be doing that.

Like right before. I know, I know. And why are we like that? I feel like there's such a stigma of like, well, if you're focusing on TikTok or if you're focusing on posting on social, that somehow detracts from your focus, which maybe for some people,

but I actually don't, I think it is fun. Yeah. I mean, I don't, I don't like the idea that athletes should feel pressure to use social media. Like, isn't that, isn't it enough that they're trying to be the best at what they do? And I think there is that sense like, oh, if you want to have a career, not only do you have to be the best at your sport, you also have to be broadcasting all this stuff all the time. But I think for the right personality type, that person who's just constructed to be an extrovert in that way and it's just kind of funny and entertaining,

the sky's the limit. Like if you're looking for, like Olympic athletes, I don't think most people realize, like they're not getting paid, like except athletes, I don't think most people realize like, you know, they're not, they're not getting paid, like, you know, except at the highest level, like, you know, they're working jobs to try to make it all work. And, and it's hard, right. And here is an opportunity for that right personality type to kind of create their own future by the use of this thing that we all have in our back pocket. Yeah. Kind of for the first time, like, I mean, they, that we all have in our back pocket.

Kind of for the first time. I mean, USOPC has a program I'm part of is like the USA Creators and they're bringing over people from TikTok and meta like never been done before. And I just think it's incredible because we can collaborate with these TikTokers, with these people who have millions of followers and it's only gonna elevate the Olympics.

But I know there's varying opinions on that of bringing over someone who knows nothing about the Olympics, knows I know there's varying opinions on that of bringing over someone who knows nothing about the Olympics, knows nothing about these sports, but I kind of love it. And there's a lot of rules. Let's just leave it at that. There's a lot of rules. There's a lot of rules.

You can and cannot say. Yes. That we're all sitting here very conscious of. Yeah. As we're trying to chat openly. What's interesting is, I don't know about you guys, but 2008, we were all there is, that's where I signed up for my Facebook account.

That's in the village. And so now you think we're 16 years later. It's a whole new world. I don't know how old Thomas, I'll slaughter his last name. Heilman? 17. Okay, well, so even what he was one, right? When we were there.

Thanks, Chris. That's why they're like wait but yeah how um and what we were talking about before and and not to is how do these young kids and then how is it affecting their training right like why aren't they tick-tocking and everything before when you know when you ladies were training your asses off at that at that age and you know, when you ladies were training your asses off at that age and, you know, as the training probably has changed for- The training has changed. That is something maybe,

I don't know if we wanna go down that rabbit hole now, but the training has changed a lot, at least in swimming from your day to now. Yeah. I feel like it's a hot topic. I mean, I think you look at someone like Michael Andrew who kind of kicked things off in what year was that? Like 2013?

It was like, yeah, 2012, 2013. It's called ultra short race-paced training for people who don't know. And essentially just like you're basically going fast all the time. It's not as much volume. And I feel like we had them on our podcast and there's varying, there's varying philosophies and opinions around that, but I feel like we

have shifted towards more of a focus on power explosiveness sprint, and that's kind of cascading throughout the nation. And so, you know, for the 400 IM or for the distance swimmers, I still think at the tippy top, those people are doing those things. I just think there's less volume below, which, you know, it's a funnel of, and I don't feel like we have the same level of volume where club teams are doing the crazy 10,000 meter workouts that we used to do. That's my opinion on it. It's, I think another perspective on this, and I agree with everything, is I think the powers that be want to help grow this sport. And people like everybody nowadays has a very, they have very short attention spans. And watching a 50 is a lot more entertaining than sitting down and watching a 1500, which takes 15 minutes. So I think there's almost like a cultural pressure to start training for these shorter events because it's more fun. We're going to add the fifties to the Olympics and world championships and

have these mixed relays, which yeah, is great for the sport, but to the detriment of the distance events, which Katie and I used to swim. I mean, we're not, Katie still has the American record in the 400 IM from 2008. It's insane. 16 years old. I can't believe you still have that record. I can't either, people like,

they're like, wait, you still do? I'm like, I know, I don't, I don't. And we're not, yeah. Even more reason for the comeback. Even more reason, protect the record. Protect the record. Protect the record, Katie Hawk 2.0. And that is not

a knock on the current athletes. No, not at all. It's a compliment to her and her training. It's a compliment to Katie and her training. That is how far ahead of your time you were. And there, of course, are people putting in the work, getting their asses kicked every day. But I do think

those numbers are dwindling and the numbers are growing in terms of like, oh, like being a sprinter sounds a lot better, like more longevity in the sport, probably make a little bit more money, more of a big name. So it's interesting. Yeah. That's actually a good point of like the recruiting factor of like, you know, you're bringing in like 10, 11 year olds, you're going to join swim team. What sounds more appeasing 10, 400 IMs or 10 fifties off the blocks? Like, Oh, and by the way, you'll be on every relay and you'll win all these medals and you're going to be the who's who. As somebody who is in the sport in the late 1980s,

it was all about volume. It was just how much volume can your body handle? So we would do at the most intense periods of the year, like we're 20,000 meters a day, long course, et cetera. And you would just be exhausted. Like my entire, from age 15 to 21, I just walked around in a fog, like overtrained, completely exhausted. But the whole idea was beat your body up

as much as you can. And every, it's not like there was no periodization. You just go hard and you know, every set every day and every workout. Right, I mean, yeah. Yeah, maybe you get one morning off a week or something and then you roll the dice on a two week taper and sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't.

And I think we saw massive, massive explosions in world records, setting aside the tech suit stuff, when some consideration went into the explosiveness, explosiveness off the walls and generating power and acceleration. And all, I think all of those things really advanced the sport, but to your point, both of you it's a pyramid, right? And at the base of that pyramid is the foundation is like an endurance aerobic base, right? And that only comes through putting in a huge amount of volume and then you, as you move up the pyramid,

then you get into the specific power and acceleration and strength kind of stuff. And it sounds like maybe you're saying it's tipped a little bit towards that and maybe it'll find its balance point. But when you think, when you look at the times and you're like, it used to be every Olympic trials or every year, even like just world records are getting broken all the time. And that seems to have balanced out. And maybe that's just because human performance is getting closer and closer to, you know, the peak of what's possible.

know, the peak of what's possible, but maybe not. And maybe it does have something to do with the way, uh, coaches and the sport itself is like thinking about training and competition. I don't know. Yeah, no. And I think, you know, and we, we talked about it, you know, I, I don't, and I, and I say this again with a lot of passion, I just think the kids are not as tough as they used to be. And that's not, it's not their fault. sentence, huh? Shots fired, Chris. Yeah, like, ding-bang. I don't know. It's not their fault. Yeah. But, you know, I think with Elizabeth and Katie.

The comments are coming for you. Yeah. They can comment. Old man, grandpa. What's he know? Get off my lawn. The old curmudgeon is, and especially with Elizabeth, I know the work she put in with two of her coaches,

Greg Troy and Chuck Batchelor. That is hard work. And we talk about the physiology, we talk about the physical part, the explosiveness, but there's a psychology and you just need to be tough, especially for the event they swam. You cannot just do USRPT

and then bust out an American record and break Katie Hoff's American record. You can't, you have to work. You have to put in work. Yeah. So it is maybe some shots fired, but I just think, but I think it's because we've,

we've, you know, we've all, like I said, I signed up for Facebook. I don't even use it in 2008, but now, you know, kids can, you know, they do their whole, I mean, everything is so much easier.

Yeah. Yeah. so. The other thing that is newer or new-ish, I think, is awareness around mental health issues. Like there was no tolerance or room for that conversation, maybe until just the most recent Olympiad. But now it's sort of accepted and embraced to kind of own the issues that you're going through and to take a break when you need to take a break without like risk of whatever.

But, and this is something Mike Gervais talks a lot about. We talk about mental health or we think about it in the context of something being wrong that needs to be addressed. In other words, like a crisis or a down cycle, as opposed to the flip side of mental health, which is optimizing it for performance, right? Like just like the physical body,

the mind and your emotional and psychological state can be honed for heightened performance. And so it shouldn't be thought of as a pejorative. It should be thought of just as, you know, in the same context as we think about physical training. So how do you guys think about that? And what is with your, you know, being on the deck and being at the pool and around all of these swimmers, like what is that conversation around mental health like at the moment? Yeah. I mean, Katie and I, my first Olympic team in 08, her second, we didn't even have like a sports psych with us. Like that was

no, like what? I don't, why would I need that? And then it wasn't until I think 2016, we as in Team USA traveled to the Olympics with a sports psych. And that's kind of at least when I started noticing the conversation picking up a little bit. But was that, sorry to interrupt, but was that about like, well, if something's wrong, you go talk to them? Or is it like, go talk to them to like elevate? No, there was definitely still the vibe of like, oh, like if you go talk to whatever his name was.

You're freaking out. Like, ooh, he's not in a good place. You know what I mean? She's going off the defense. And it's like, no. It is the, I mean, we can beat this horse dad,

but it is the same thing as going to the athletic trainer and being like, hey, my shoulder hurts. Can I get ice? But like, I don't even think we're still quite there yet

with the mental side of things. But I do think at least this Olympic team, like being at camp, which we kind of referenced earlier, I was in Croatia leading up to these games with the swim team for a few days. Just seeing how they were, the vibe, and they just felt like good, home, at ease. And I think a lot of that has to do with taking care of the mental side. And like I said earlier, those 10, 20 minutes before your race,

that's make or break. Yeah. And if you can't handle those 10 to 20 minutes, you need to figure out why. And somebody needs to help you to do that. Or if you think you've got it handled, but maybe there's another level that you can get to. Exactly.

And why not explore that? It doesn't have to be that there's something wrong. It's like, how can I actually improve, right? Right, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you have been on your own journey. So I would love to hear like- Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, I feel like it's almost like,

I use the example of like soft tissue work foam rolling. Like for me, when I was swimming and now, like I try to do it every single day, regardless of whether I feel sore or not. And I feel the same way about like, even if you're having the best week ever, you still should be going to your therapist because you know, and I think that now like every single person, athlete I've talked to, it's become just a normal, like, yes, I have therapy on Thursday.

And like, it's just this, like, it's as common as brushing your teeth now. It's amazing. Cause why would you not want to take care of your mind? Why would you not want to take care of your mind? So yeah, I'm, I'm definitely jealous because I feel like I, yeah, I didn't have that when I was swimming and it wasn't supported. And now it's just this common thing. And I'm, I'm hoping that not only does it help the athletes leading into the meet, but also their longevity in the sport there, the way that they look back on the sport, like I'm 16 years removed. Like I wish that I was in Rio and you know, like coming back to the sport sooner. And I think I'm hoping that these athletes will have this positive relationship with their sport

because they have the mental side down. I heard, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that in the Olympic village, there's like a meditation mindfulness room, like a space for that. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, yeah. They had it at trials.

Oh, they did? Yeah, they had like a mindfulness room and it was actually beautiful. They had like greenery and like dimly, I think they had red lights. Like it was just like a very chill vibe to kind of, did you see it? I didn't. It was like right near the warmup pool. And I remember it was called like the mindfulness area. And I was like, this is amazing. Like even just a place to just like be quiet and get ready for your race.

Didn't they have emotional support dogs too? Yeah. Yeah. Emotional support dogs, like puppies. Who doesn't like puppies? I don't know. I'm of two. My grandpa, like I'm like, really?

Like part of me is like, really? Like you need an emotional support dog that's not even your dog? So I don't know on the village, but we'll check on that. Like that would be, I mean, I have yet to see anything like that at the pool, but that would be cool if it was actually at the village.

I'm sorry. I'm like imagining like an athlete walking out for finals, but having their emotional support dog on a leash. Hey, Bentley, wait here. In Los Angeles, Elizabeth will be walking up to her comeback with a dog. Bentley, I find myself lining up with Chris on like, we just need to get a little bit harder.

You've tipped over the other edge. Well, that is the question though. Like when I think it's swung the other direction of like you need to find a happy medium. Like nerves are good sometimes. Being uncomfortable is good sometimes. And it's a hard thing to talk about because what's the dip?

Like how do you tell a young person what's tipping over the edge to be negative and what's not? like, how do you tell a young person what's tipping over the edge to be negative and what's not? Yeah. Amazing. We're going to have to wrap this up in a minute, but before we do that, what are you most excited about right now in terms of like what's unfolding, the stories that are unfolding, what we're about to see, what's happening? I think for me living my life at the pool, I'm kind of like you, I'm in my own bubble. I only know about swimming right now. Don't ask me about another sport. I won't know. But I think the youth of our team is looking really good heading into a home Olympics. And

that's what I'm excited for is like, of course I'm excited to see what the rest of Paris has to unfold, but I've already got sites on LA 2028 and like home Olympics. You see Leon Marchand win the 400 IM last night in front of a home crowd. That's going to be us as Americans. In SoFi Stadium. I get chills. I literally have chills right now.

It's crazy that the pool is going to be in SoFi. I know. And who's it going to be? It might be somebody that's on this team right now that maybe is making the final, maybe not, like maybe just a name that we don't even talk about on this podcast or broadcast, but like given another four years,

they're the it name. That's what gets me excited. What about you, Katie? I would say it's been really cool to be at Team USA House, which is where basically the family and friends can all gather. And they do this thing every evening where they have, you know, you win an Olympic medal and you go in and it's called the order of the ecos. And so the athletes actually are able to recognize the

people and person who really made an impact to get them on the podium. And I just feel for the athletes, how cool to be celebrated live with their family and friends. And I feel like that's something that we didn't really have. And so watching that happen, it happened to a cook and bacon after winning the first medal of all of team USA. And they got to stand up there and everyone erupted and appreciated them. And I just think that's like going to be really cool to see that unfold. Yeah, cool. Yeah.

Chris. Wow. I mean, just like Elizabeth, I think going into a home Olympics, you know, again, having a little bit split, having spent a lot of, third of my life in Europe living there, you know, just the new names

and kind of seeing some normalcy come back to the Olympics. I'm a fan of the Olympics. And, you know, from Rio to, you know, Tokyo, it was, you know, nothing to do with Tokyo. And it's unfortunate because I don't think Japan got its fair shot to really put on a really post-pro-race for a year. But just some normalcy and

of course there's a lot of stuff in the media about USA and things that whatever, but that they're going to not host the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake, whatever. But I think seeing some normalcy and I will say a little plug for LA 28, we have a former swimmer

who's kind of the big boss there with Janet Evans. So it's gonna be really neat. And that's our generation. You two are a little bit too young, but you know, Janet Evans- John Moffitt's involved. And John is involved. We love John Moffitt. John's the best.

Stanford guy. I'm sorry, we didn't even talk about this. Oh, I'm gonna text you. We have to take, yeah. We'll take a picture and send it to John. That's cool, yeah. I mean, I'm just delighted to be here as somebody who's been a fan of the Olympics

for as long as I could remember back in the days when we had a monoculture and everything stopped when the Olympics were on and everybody was watching. You know, the world's very different now, but that Olympic spirit is alive. had a monoculture and everything stopped when the Olympics were on and everybody was watching. You know, the world's very different now, but that Olympic spirit is alive. It's such an honor and a privilege to be here

and to get to talk to people like yourselves and to bear witness to such a beautiful event. I mean, in a culture that is, you know, feels fractured at times, this is something that can unite all of us. And I think that's something that we need right now. And I think so on a broad general sense, that's what excites me about the Olympics.

And of course, then there's just all the stories. Like what I get excited about are the unknowns that come out of nowhere that you're not following and suddenly something amazing happens. And, you know, it wouldn't be an Olympics without that. And that is already starting to unfold. So it's really cool to be here. And we should do this again, if you guys want to do it,

like this was super fun. I don't know about you guys, but I- So much fun. Wow, so my God. Yeah. Do I have to go to work tonight? And you do it with pros, right? We got Elizabeth Beisel, who is, you know,

an international broadcaster for- Oh, please Rich. In addition to being this unbelievably decorated athlete. And then Katie, a podcaster now with the Unfiltered. I know, I know. It's awesome. So you're a pro in this space as well.

I'm not a pro, but I'm making my way. Yeah, you are, it's incredible. Dominating the discourse around swimming in a really cool way. So I think it's great what you're doing. Appreciate that. Yeah, I'm here to support you in that regard. I have some questions.

And if you wanna watch the swimming broadcast in French, Chris is your guy. Can you find that on the internet? Like, where do you get? It's hard, yeah. It's hard. It's hard to go to the dark web. It's good.

I've seen a lot of people and we appreciate you, Rich, because you really help a lot of people. Yeah. For years. Thank you. I appreciate what you do. Well, this was great. Thank you so much.

It was a real treat. Appreciate it. All right. Postcards from Paris, episode one, complete. Is that what you're calling it? I don't know. I love that. You should.

It's cute. I love it. Good. Approved? Love it. Stamp of approval. Cheers. Cheers.

Thanks, guys. Thanks. Approved. Stamp of approval. Cheers. Cheers. Thanks, guys. Thanks. Hell yeah. Thank you.