The Rich Roll Podcast - Pro Bodybuilder Nimai Delgado On Vegan Gains, Training Pains & Changing The Game

Episode Date: August 13, 2018

But where do you get your protein? I get this question a lot. Today's guest probably gets it more than anyone on Earth. A sweetheart of a guy rocking one of the world's most impressive physiques, this week's guest is an IFBB Professional Men’s Physique bodybuilder with a most unexpected twist: Nimai Delgado has never eaten meat in his entire life. Not one bite. Raised vegetarian since birth, Nimai switched to a 100% plant based unprocessed diet in 2015, motivated by a desire to live the healthiest lifestyle possible. Not long after, his bodybuilding career skyrocketed. Proving animal products unnecessary for peak fitness, Nimai is indisputable living testimony that you can indeed build tremendous strength and muscle mass without the meat and dairy products most of us have been told our whole lives are critical for health and absolutely mandatory athletic performance. Nimai's evolution into bodybuilding began as a personal mission to make friends, get fit and stay healthy. Success came swiftly. Within a year, he had won several contests, including the NPC USA Championships, earning him a spot among the IFBB professional ranks. A fresh new face making serious waves on the vegan athlete scene, Nimai has recently shifted focus from self to service — leveraging his rapidly growing profile into a global movement to teach people young and old how to gain muscle, get fit, be competitive and thrive long-term on a plant-based diet. Nimai's impressive vegan gains have graced the cover of Muscle & Fitness magazine and feature prominently in the hotly anticipated Gamechangers documentary. When he isn't killing it in the gym, he's hosting the recently launched Generation V podcast and sharing daily diet and fitness tips with his 265K Instagram followers. Perhaps you follow him on social media. Maybe you've seen him flexing in magazines. But there's so much more to Nimai than bulging biceps. Today we unpack the untold story. This is a conversation about what it was like being raised by Hare Krisha devotee parents who immigrated from Argentina. It's an open account of his experience growing up on a commune in rural south Mississippi. It's an exchange about how the bodybuilding subculture captured his interest. And it's about why he made the choice to go and stay vegan. Of course, we cover his training routines. We discuss his daily nutritional regimen. Yes, we talk protein — where he gets it and the misconceptions behind the hotly debated macro-nutrient. And because suspicion is unavoidable, I do ask him about steroids. But most of all, this is an exploration of the lesser known Nimai — the spiritual and ethical foundation beneath what he does, how he does it, and most importantly why. It was an honor to have this awesome human in the studio. It's my pleasure to share his wisdom with you today. And my hope is that our exchange will leave you not only inspired, but questioning more than a few long-held assumptions about the role of nutrition in athletic performance. To get a gander of this physical specimen, watch our entire conversation on YouTube at bit.ly/richandnimai Peace + Plants, Rich

It's always about the hard work. It's always about the diet. It's always about sacrifice and effort. Your daily habits outside of the gym hold way more value than what you do inside of the gym. So if you can get your diet right, you can get your daily habits right, then the results will really start to come in. I'm not trying to convince anybody to go vegan because I want them to go vegan. I'm just trying to help you. I just want you to feel as good as I feel. I want them to go vegan. I'm just trying to help you. I just want you to feel as good as I feel.

And if you put all this stuff aside, this ego and these paradigms, then maybe you can experience a different version of life that you never anticipated. That's Nimai Delgado. And this is The Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey, everybody. How are you guys doing?

What is happening? How are you? How's it going? How is that commute going? How are you doing at the gym? What's happening on that treadmill? Are the kids good? Is the boss treating you okay?

Are you getting along with the husband, the boyfriend, the girlfriend, the wife? Good. Really glad to hear it. Did I mention I am Rich Roll? I am your host. This is my podcast. Welcome. Take a breath. It's going to be okay. A lot of anticipation about today's episode. Really excited about it. Today's guest is an absolute beast of a human, an IFBB pro bodybuilder who is rocking one of the most impressive physiques I have ever seen in my life. But here's the kicker. Here is the twist. Nimai Delgado has never eaten meat in his entire life, not one bite. Raised as a vegetarian, Nimai switched to a fully plant-based diet in 2015, and that's really when his bodybuilding career began to skyrocket. In other words, what I'm saying here is that this guy, Nimai Delgado, he is living proof, indisputable proof, that you can indeed build muscle mass without meat and dairy, and that perhaps everything

you may have heard, everything you may have been taught growing up about the necessity of animal products for health and athletic performance, well, it just might not be true. And beyond all of this, there is so much more to Nimai and his story than the physique, than meets the eye. And I'm going to elaborate on that in a minute, but first. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good

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I really do. And they have treatment options for you. Life empathize with you. I really do. And they have treatment options for you. Life in recovery is wonderful, and recovery.com is your partner in starting that journey. When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. Okay, Nimai Delgado. I really like this kid. I'm so excited for you guys to hear this conversation. What's really interesting about this guy is that his whole journey started out as really just a personal mission to stay fit and be healthy. And he has taken his accomplishments and

really turned them into a full-blown movement. He is this young, fresh face who is now making serious waves on the vegan athlete scene by teaching people, all kinds of people, how it's possible to gain muscle and stay ripped or be competitive on a plant-based diet. His impressive vegan gains have graced the cover of Muscle and Fitness magazine, and he is prominently featured in the upcoming and highly anticipated documentary, The Game Changers. Deservedly so, as this guy really is truly changing the game. On top of all of this, Nimai has this unbelievably fascinating backstory growing up with Hare

Krishna parents on essentially a commune in the rural south. And what is less known and understood about Nimai is the spiritual and ethical underpinnings that provide the why behind what he does and how he does it. He's a great dude. I really enjoyed talking to him. So let's get into it. Let's do this, man. All right, Nimai in the house, man. So nice to meet you. Delighted to have you here today.

Thank you so much for having me, man. I'm actually really, really excited to be here. Cool, man. Awesome. This is a long time coming. There's a lot of people excited about this. And just to kind of kick it off, I wanted to say publicly, like, I'm just, I'm such a huge fan of who you are, what you're doing, the way that you're carrying the message. And I think it's incredibly powerful. And I've said this many times before, but it's one thing for a guy like me, who's a skinny endurance athlete to go and, you know, talk about the things that I care about. And it's

another thing altogether when it's a guy like you, because you're, I mean, for people that are just listening on their iPhones or their mobile devices and not watching this on YouTube, you should watch it on YouTube to get a glimpse of what this guy's all about, because you are absolutely jacked. You have one of the most incredible physiques I've ever seen. And when somebody who's so strong, who is so ripped, is speaking about the things that I've been shouting

from the mountaintops for a long time, I think it has the potential to land in a very different way. And I think that that is a very potent way of spreading this message. And I applaud you for kind of taking that mantle and running with it, so to speak. Wow. That was like incredibly humbling to hear. So I just want to say thank you for, I mean, the super nice words and even considering me to have on the show, because I've been listening to you for quite some time now. So it's like, like you said, it's a long time coming and I've been manifesting it for quite a while. So it's awesome that you reached out. Well, here we are. All in, all in. I've learned to like trust timing

on these things. They happen when they're supposed to happen. Yeah, I completely agree. And I think it's a good time. You know, here we are, you were recently on the cover of Muscle and Fitness. Yeah, so that's a huge deal to be on the cover of that magazine, you know, vegan or not vegan. And also we're kind of, as far as I know, we're on the cusp of the Game Changers movie coming out. When is that?

Is there a date yet for the release of that? If I had a dollar for every time somebody asked me, I wish I knew. The moment I know, everybody else is gonna know because I'll be the first one to be posting it all over social media. But yeah, I can just say that it's worth the wait. Right, cool. So yeah, I haven't seen the movie yet,

but I know that you figure prominently in that for good reason. So let's tell your story, dude. You have a really interesting backstory about how all of this began. Yeah. That goes back this began. Yeah. That goes back to Argentina. Yeah, I guess it does. I guess it does. I'll just go back to the beginning,

from the very beginning. So, my heritage is Argentinian. Both of my parents were born and raised in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Came from, you know, primarily Catholic families, uh, went through the whole system. And my mom actually, I guess she's the catalyst to this whole story coming about. Uh, when she was about, I don't know, 15 or so, she had a very, uh, public boyfriend. He was like, I don't know, the vice president's son or, I don't know the exact story, but they owned a ranch. And she went over one day and basically he slaughtered a pig in front of her. And she was kind of traumatized by it as a 15, 16-year-old would be and made a decision right then that she wouldn't ever eat or touch meat again.

And yeah, she just kind of lived her life from 15 on. That was it. It wasn't just in words only. Like she actually lived up to that. No, yeah, exactly. If you knew my mom, she's probably the most compassionate person I've, selfless person I've ever met in my life. And I'm not just saying that because I'm a mama's boy. Like I really do believe that. And yeah, so my grandpa, he was definitely really do believe that. And yeah, so my grandpa, he was definitely apprehensive whenever she decided to give up meat for many reasons that you and I hear every single day. Yeah. Well, Argentina is a big meat culture. I mean, the big parents, it's a big part of culture and just being social, I would imagine. Yeah. And they're very like

vivacious people, Argentinians. You can always, I can always spot one from a crowd or if it's a group of Latino people on a talk show, I can, you can always spot the Argentinian because they're so loud. They're so full of energy. They talk with their hands. They're all like, you know, like my grandpa was a prime example of that. So as you can say, as you can see, or probably expect expect like she got a lot of slack for it a lot of um i guess you know feedback from her friends family and concern but as luck would have it somewhere along the line she was introduced to another uh lifestyle and that was through the form of Hinduism. So at that time, I guess it must have been late 70s, early 80s, Hinduism was getting a little bit more westernized. I don't know if

you remember that time or not. I was born in 89, so. Yeah, I was graduating college when you were born, so I remember it well, yes. I don't know what it was like in Argentina, but. Yeah, me either, but apparently. But I think just basically, in a general sense, being more open to Eastern perspectives about spirituality in general. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was a very small culture still at the time back then. And she really resonated with a lot of the kind of the core beliefs of Hinduism, and she still does. And one of those beliefs was that, you know, you don't eat meat. She basically-

A himsa. A himsa. Yeah, exactly. A himsa. The concept of do no harm, live a life of not causing any suffering, any harm. But also she almost, she basically renounced all material things as well and devoted herself fully to service to God and went to a Hindu temple and started living in the temple. And that's kind of, you know, the love story that happened between her and my dad. So he was a renunciant also? Yes. Yeah. For different reasons. Like robes and the whole thing?

Oh, yeah. Like literally no money begging for your food kind of thing? Not necessarily begging for your food. Or relying on the generosity of strangers? Yeah, basically selling books. That was their way of making money. They were selling versions of the Bhagavad Gita in the streets and they would have a stack of books. They'd go and sell them in the streets of Argentina, try to convince somebody, try to convince probably the most steak-heavy eating country to go vegetarian and maybe switch over or be open-minded to another religion

entirely. Kind of like how you see the Hare Krishnas. Actually, it is the Hare Krishnas. Oh, okay. That's essentially the tribe that they went into. So she had the orange robes and she cut her hair off and all that? She didn't. My dad did.

So the men do that. Wow. So my men had- So your grandfather must have been really freaking out. Oh, yeah. My grandfather's a super conservative, too. He's an airline pilot, Navy guy. So, I mean, you could just imagine what she had to go through and what he thought whenever she told him.

She's like, hey, I'm leaving to go join this Hare Krishna movement and basically devote myself to God. And, yeah, that's kind of the love story that happened between her and my dad. They met, fell in love, had my sister who was born in Argentina and just kind of lived that way for a certain number of years. But then things in Argentina were a little bit tumultuous. So they didn't feel like it was the best environment to raise their children. And, you know, as the universe would have it, they went from a temple in Argentina

to a temple in Brazil, in Florianopolis. Had my brother in Brazil and we're all two years apart. So they lived there for a few years, right on the beach. I see pictures of it and it was just a beautiful place. But yeah, like you were saying, all bald. My dad was all bald. They'd go to the temple. They had like a little vegetarian restaurant at the time that they were trying to, you know, keep, you know, sustain their lifestyle

and everything. And then as luck would have it, their spiritual guru mentioned an opportunity to provide them with housing and a place to live in America. So my dad was like, I'll do it. I'll go. We've, you know, the American dream is something that's known all around the world. And my dad was like i'll do it i'll go we've you know the american dream is something that's known all around the world and my dad basically went by himself didn't know how to speak any english went to landed in miami um started working as a taxi driver to get enough money essentially to move or to send back to my mom so she could have a plane ticket to come uh then that happened and uh my mom came with basically two and a half kids so she was have a plane ticket to come. Then that happened and my mom came with basically two and a half kids.

So she was pregnant with me. She was pregnant with you. So you were born in the States. Yeah, I'm the gringo of the family. That's what they call me, gringo. Basically the only American born here. And ended up in Miami in the late 80s. Wasn't, there was a lot going on in Miami at that time.

So they ended up going to central Florida to another temple in Alachua. And then right outside of Gainesville, then went to New Orleans because they heard about another opportunity there. First day in New Orleans, got their car stolen. So, they were like- Welcome to America. Yeah. So, they were like, yeah, maybe New Orleans is a little bit too crazy for us. So, they ended up having another temple. They're like, come on, we already gave away all our worldly possessions. Like we just have this car.

From their perspective, it wasn't too much of an issue other than inconvenience, right? They weren't too attached to anything at that time, but they were trying to provide their kids essentially with a better opportunity than they had. And there was another temple in Mississippi, in South Mississippi. And I'm going to paint a picture for you. It's in the middle of nowhere, the middle of the Bible belt. And essentially it was a dirt road and they had a big sign in the front that said, welcome to New Taliban, basically International Society of Krishna Consciousness. This is one of their temples, one of their farms. And that's where I was born and raised.

Wow. Yeah. So was it like a commune community? Not necessarily, but everybody that lived within the perimeter of the farm were Hindu. Right. So it's a pretty well-known establishment within the community. So this faith-based community, essentially Hare Krishnas, this is the environment in which you're reared. Yeah. Deep, deep in the South.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. That is wild. Essentially, I tell people all the time, it's just a bubble. Like I lived in a bubble. Like you're talking about being raised in a bubble and not being- A very unique, different kind of bubble.

Yeah, yeah. What most people think of. So that's where I grew up the first, about six years of my life. So every day I'd wake up 5 a.m., go to the temple with my mom. I would be dressed head to toe in traditional clothing. I would wear the T-lock on my forehead. I still wear neck beads.

We'd go to the temple. We'd chant mantras. And I lived in this like really cool little environment. I mean, it was essentially, it was a cow rescue sanctuary as well. So they would rescue cows from different farms in the vicinity. And it was like an Ahimsa farm. So they would drink milk and have ghee and make yogurt and all these different things. But from the cows that were treated with love, respect and everything else.

And we also had like a garden, like a community garden that was like almost self-sustaining. So they would have like feasts every day. They would make food for the community members. And every Sunday they would have a Sunday feast. And it was welcome to everybody, just like most temples around the world. Anybody can come and have food on Sundays. That's wild. It's almost like its own little blue zone.

Yeah, essentially. You know? Essentially. And what was, when you would venture outside the perimeter of the farm into the local townships, I mean, how are you guys received and treated by the normal people that were living in the environment? Yeah, it was always like-

Do you remember? Yeah, vividly, vividly. I mean, the place where we were living, I mean, we were well known within the outside community of who we were and we were weird in those Hare Krishnas and their beliefs and, you know, their rituals or whatever they would call it. I mean, it's very foreign to the real world essentially. And I mean, it was, it was different receptions from people. I mean, um, I remember vividly whenever I was a little kid that waking up to a burning cross, uh, outside of one of my friend's house. Wow. And essentially it was members of, you know, I guess I would assume the KKK, you know what I mean? That's unfortunately still alive and real and racism's a real thing still to this day. You know, so it wasn't, it was challenging, I'll say that.

Yeah, I mean, it's quite different for a community like that to find a community like that, like in, let's say like Big Sur or, you know, an environment in which you kind of, you're not that surprised, you know, but in the deep, deep South, that's a whole thing. Yeah. Different altogether.

Oh, definitely. I mean, it's its own little bubble, like I was mentioning, but that was until I was like six. So my parents being the kind of free thinkers that they are, they wanted me to have more opportunities. So they saw other kids that were being raised in that environment that maybe they were living more of a very humble faith-based life and they wanted us to get a proper education. So they assimilated me into public school. And I went to public school at a very young age. I remember like my first days at school, I would go to school with the markings, with the necklaces. Oh, wow. And this is the way my parents think.

Like, oh, he'll be fine. But essentially they tossed me in the water and said, sink or swim, right? So. And how old were you? I was kindergarten through the rest of high school. So I was like, I'm a Southerner. Like it doesn't seem. You don't have an accent though? Oh, I fought it.

Oh, you did? I fought it. Yeah, I mean, my parents speak Spanish within the household, but I never felt like I belonged essentially. Like I was saying, I lived in a bubble. So it was like, yeah, I don't really- Well, it's not surprising that that's how you felt. I mean, I would imagine even in kindergarten, having some awareness of just being very different

from everyone else. Yeah, I mean, it was awareness of just being very different from everyone else. Yeah. I mean, it was made apparent to me very quickly that I was different than anybody else. So, what kind of kid were you? Were you bullied as a kid? Were you a quiet kid? Were you an outgoing kid? Did you play sports? Definitely a quiet kid. I was always an observer. My grandpa used to call me the philosopher because I wouldn't really talk that much. I was very observant. But when I did speak, it was like something profound or something with like some thought behind it.

Proving you to be the next guru. Yeah, essentially, essentially. So I would always, you know, I would, I just kind of accepted from a very early start that I was different and accepted the fact that not everybody was raised the way I was raised because it was made apparent to me. So I understood that kids were going to have their judgments on me. They were going to say things to me. And I, you know, to this day, I asked my parents, I was like, what did you teach me as a kid to not be tempted to kind of rebel or, you know, just be one of the other kids and just like adopt that lifestyle. And they were like, we just taught you to love yourself, love who you are, respect other living beings. And we just kept reinforcing it.

And we trusted in you. And we knew that you had understood from an early age that that was the way that we lived. And, you know, we don't eat animals. And I just kind of like, I was like, oh, it makes sense. Right. Yeah. It is wild that you didn't have that impulse to rebel. Like it would have been very, the predictable course would have been to say,

screw this man, like, I'm out of here. I wanna be, the peer pressure, I mean, as a parent with, I got a 14 year old daughter, I have two older boys. Like I know how intense that can be to conform and to fit into the flow of society. And to be able to have the emotional wherewithal to remain true to what you felt was your North Star instilled by your parents. I mean, that takes a certain level of self-awareness and self-confidence. Yeah. I mean, it's developed over level of self-awareness and self-confidence. Yeah. I mean, it's developed over time.

Like, things test you. Like, just like anything in life, people will pick and prod, and kids can be really cruel. I'll just say that. Kids can be really cruel. I don't know how many times I've had. Even when I was growing up, I'd bring my lunch, obviously, and, you know, I'd open up my lunchbox, and here they are. I grew up on Indian food, too. Right. Both of my parents were really good chefs. I don't know if I grew up on Argentinian

vegetarian food or Indian food. Like Indian food with an Argentinian flair to it? Essentially. Essentially. Yeah. Do they still live there? No, no, no. Okay. We'll get to that. Go ahead. Sorry. So essentially I'd opened up my lunchbox and like, I mean, the flavors that Indian food contain, cumin, turmeric, all of these things are curry. All these things are very, they have a strong odor to them. So I'd open up my lunchbox

and immediately the first thing everybody would say would be like, what is that? Like, what are you eating? And I'd be like, I don't know, my parents cooked it and I'm just gonna eat it. And they would always like put burgers in my face, chicken nuggets, all this stuff they serve it, you know, in high school and elementary school. And I'd be like, oh, I'll give you a dollar to eat it or just try it. And I never really understood that, like why somebody would get

so much joy out of me doing what they wanted me to do. So I kind of, I almost like made a stance against it. And I was like, no, I'm just, I'm not going to do it to almost prove a point and just stay true to who I was. And that kind of helped me build up that strength and that confidence that like, I am who I am, take it or leave it. And at the same time, still wanting to be accepted. So I ended up becoming a chameleon, you know, I learned how to deflect really easily and really early on. So when people would ask me at birthday parties, you know, why aren't you eating hot dogs? I would just say, I just don't like them, you know, and I would just make, I'd make Dorito sandwiches. So I'd get like two pieces of bread, some like cheddar cheese and put some Doritos on it. And that would be my meal

when I go to like birthday parties and stuff. And even in other social situations where parents would come up to me and they'd be like, Neema, are you hungry? Let me cook for you. And I just like, I hated that pressure of being different and being like a nuisance. So somebody had to like go the extra mile just to provide for me. So I was just like, no, you know, I'm fine. Like I'm just okay. I only have chips. But still maintaining that boundary, you know, I would think like a small child after a while, you're like, fine, you know? And also this idea of you, like this sense that you have of this is who I am.

This is my set of core values. Did you ever have a reckoning, like a moment where you're like, well, wait a minute, are these my core values? Or are these just the values that I've always known because my parents were impressing them upon me? Like, is this what I believe? Or is this just what I've been known because my parents were impressing them upon me. Like, is this what I believe or is this just what I've been told my whole life? I think everybody goes through that

at some point in their life. At least those who do reflection find themselves at that position and that crossroads is like, am I who I am or am I who I was told to be? Right. But for me, I really did believe that it made sense. Like I'm a logical person. It all made logical sense. You know, like when I was younger, if I was presented with a few situations in front of me, if I had an apple or like a, you know, a baby chicken, I wouldn't rip his head open and start eating the baby chicken. I would just reach for the apple. So that same concept kind of can be extrapolated. And just because you're not the one that's, you know, taking the animal's life doesn't mean that the life isn't taken. So it just made sense. You know, I just kind of thought of it logically like that. Yeah, it's interesting. I think a lot of people sort of just think, well, you know, that chicken breast

has already been killed and it's been boned and it's in the packaging at the grocery store. So, does it really matter whether I buy it or not? Because it's already there and somebody's going to buy it. Like, and it's easier to kind of be in denial or not, you know, solve that mathematical equation about what your dollars are contributing to. Yeah, in a sense. But I mean, not all life is determined by dollars and cents. I mean, luckily, I was raised from a karmic perspective too. So that's kind of where I understood that I believe I'm not this body. It's just a vessel for me. And one day I might be in that chicken's body. So I wouldn't like that to happen to me.

So why would I do it to it when I'm completely fine living without it? You've come this far. You don't want to go backwards in that cycle, right? Yeah, exactly. So the concept of ahimsa, karma, all these things, they add up over time. And I figured if I can just refrain from contributing to it, because even by buying a packaged chicken breast, you basically pay someone that's sitting in an office that is their job to think, how can we kill more animals more efficiently? How can we extract from them more products? And you're paying that person. So, yeah, you still contribute to the, you know, the suffering and everything else. Yeah. So never eaten meat in your entire life.

Never. Not even by accident. On purpose. I've never have the one time I can recall where I ate it or I had it like in my mouth on accident was, um, I was in Taco Bell and got, I used to get, I used to eat Taco Bell a lot,, like bean and cheese burritos, cheese quesadillas. And I ordered a cheese quesadilla, bit into it, immediately noticed the texture difference. It was like chunky. And I just spit it out immediately. And I started like getting like nauseous. And it was just like the thought of that just like kind of reinforced that it wasn't for me, you know? So that was probably

when I was in like ninth grade or so. So, you know, I've had moments where, and that's not the only, you know, scenario where something like that's happened, but, and I'm sure somewhere along the line, maybe I've accidentally consumed it and just completely unaware of it. But I just don't think, like I consider my body, like I try to keep it as pure as possible and just, I just don't think, like, I consider my body, like, I try to keep it as pure as possible and just refrain from it. Right. So high school rolls around. You're still living in the community. No, no, no.

Your parents moved out of that? When I was about seven years old. And we moved to a more traditional Southern community. And you start wearing, like, normal clothes and stuff like that. Yeah, I mean, I wore normal, like, I went back home. I don't know what I said to my parents whenever I was younger, but I was like, just dress me normally, you know? And cause my sister was like, she was four years older than me. So she was dealing with it on another level. Cause she was also the white Spanish speaking Hindu person with a weird name. So, I mean, there's a lot of different

things happening there to stand out. So she I mean, there's a lot of different things happening there to stand out. So she was like, I just want to blend in, just put me in normal clothes. And I was the same way, just put me in normal clothes and I'll assimilate. Right, and your brother's older than you as well? Yeah, my brother's two years older.

So they were kind of like the canaries in the coal mine out there, like, you know. This is what's to come. Data testing. Yeah. And so by the time you become of age, like your parents sort of figure out like, okay, like we can't do that. Yeah. Right. And my sister's very vocal too. So I'm sure she let

them know immediately, like, you need to stop this. What do they do now? So my sister, ironically, she works for cardiologists as a echo technician. So she'll do heart scans. My parents, they have their own businesses as well as my brother. And I'm out here in California just kind of figuring out life. Yeah. So when you're in high school, are you playing sports? Are you athletic? Yeah, I've always been athletic. Like I grew up and naturally I played soccer. When I was younger, I was like the young Argentinian. I had long hair too. So I was like the Argentinian dude, like Argentinians are good at soccer. And I played soccer for quite some time and then was introduced to skating. And I got hooked on skating when I was like 11 or 12 years old.

And I'm talking about like- Skateboarding? No, like in-skating. Like, no, no, no. I figure skating. Like inline skating. Oh, okay. So like aggressive inline skating.

So at that time it was becoming really popular. It was all over ESPN, all the mobile skate parks that would do these tours and whatnot. And I went to the skate park on accident. I thought I was going to a skating rink and ended up at this skate park with these huge half pipes and bowls and all this stuff. And I was just immediately hooked. And I'm a bit of a daredevil too. So I got really good at it really quick. And even, I think by the time I was 13 or 14, I won some competition to like tour the, tour the country with like a, um, like an organization that

did like mobile skate parks. And there was like professional, uh, skateboarders, professional rollerbladers and professional bikers. And I was doing that at like 13 and then, uh, skated all the way up until pretty much high school and just kind of started like, you know, venturing out and just living a little bit more normal. Cause I was like, I do, when I do things, I had like go a hundred percent into it. It's just like my, my nature. So I like figuring out how something works. I like perfecting it or mastering the skill and then just doing it uh-huh and um yeah that was about until I was 18 but I mean even like in high school I kind of like would keep them keep my life separate like I'd have my skating friends and then I have my high school like normal friends because it was like who what

were the high school friends like like what kind of crowd did you fall into like with the jocks or with like the stoners or the geeks? Like- I do, I'm a chameleon, man. I blend in with everybody. Yeah, I always had friends- That's like a survival, it's a survival technique. Maybe, you know, coming from that environment

and realizing like, if I wanna make this work in the real world, like I have to be adaptable. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like I was always like a little bit more like on the intelligence side, I was only in advanced classes. So I had friends with that were like considered geeks or nerds and stuff. And like, I love those people. And then I always like have the more socialite crowd where they were going to parties and all this stuff. And then the jocks, the goths at that time, there was a lot of goths in my high school. And like, I blended in with everybody, you know? So, I mean, I'm sure if you'd ask,

hopefully if you'd ask like a lot of my high school friends, I was pretty well liked throughout high school. But like many of them didn't know like who I was at the same time. They knew who I portrayed, you know, but then- They knew the guy that you wanted them to know. Almost. But they didn't necessarily know. Like they didn't have the full picture. Yeah, a few people did. A few of my close friends, you know, but then- They knew the guy that you wanted them to know. Almost. But they didn't necessarily know.

Like, yeah, a few people did. A few of my close friends, you know, I had like a really tight inner circle of friends and they did and they accepted me and they, that's why like I became more comfortable being who I was with them. But then outside of that, I never really talked about like my background or being a vegetarian

or anything like that. Was there anybody else from the community in your high school or any other vegetarians in your high school? Not that vegetarians in your high school? Not that I remember. Yeah. All right, but the bodybuilding thing doesn't come until much later.

Yeah. Right, so you go to college, right? Yeah, almost there. Yeah, and you become this engineer. Yeah. And do you start hitting the weights in college or what's the college experience? Are you in Louisiana or something like that?

Yeah, yeah, so I actually started kind of, I went to the college experience? You got to, are you in, you're in Louisiana or something like that? Yeah, yeah. So I actually started kind of, I went to the gym for my first time ever, was in, I guess my sophomore or junior year of high school. And I was always a small kid too. I was like a really, like I was always the shortest kid in my class. And it wasn't until like after high school

that I hit like a growth spurt. And I made, I might've graduated high school at five, five, 130 pounds, a hundred and something like that. Yeah. No football career. Oh no, not at all. I love football, but I just knew I would get destroyed and ate up if I, if I played football. Um, so I went, I went to the gym, uh, but I had no idea what I was doing. I'll just be honest. I I'd go to go. It was like a social hour for me. I'd see people I had no idea what I was doing. I'll just be honest. I'd go to go. It was like a social hour for me. I'd see people I'd like to think I was working out at the time.

And then I ended up going to college at LSU and studying engineering. And majority of my time was spent studying for engineering because it's a difficult major to be in. But at the same time, I was enjoying college. I was partying, you know, going to football games, all that stuff. I'm a huge LSU fan, college football fan. And then I started hitting the gym a little bit more because I was like, hey, maybe I'll get a girlfriend or something, you know? I had a growth spurt too. So I was like growing and it was nice, you know? And I remember my freshman year, they say you gained 15 pounds your freshman year. I

really did. But not in the sense that you would like, not in muscle. It just like came into your body. A little bit, a little bit more too. So I lived like on campus close to a Taco Bell. And I remember they had these things called like points. It was like a point system that you bought with a meal plan. So you could use it at different restaurants on campus. And I would go every night and get like four, it might've been five, five bean burritos because I didn't know how to cook. And that was like my meal before I go to bed.

I ate like three bean burritos before I go to bed and wake up and eat two and take it with me to class. So I was eating a lot of like just crap. Yeah, a lot of crap essentially. And I put on like 15 pounds whenever I was like a freshman, continued going to the gym, but still didn't really get anywhere. You know, I had like a sort of athletic body. And then it wasn't until my last year of college that I went through a breakup. And they say breakups make bodybuilders. That's essentially what happened. I've never heard that, but that makes sense. You'd be surprised. If you do a poll, ask how many bodybuilders started their career because of a breakup.

It's a pretty high number. Yeah, I can see that. It's a high percentage. So I broke up with my ex and started, it was, I gave up alcohol at that time too. And I was like, you know, what am I- That's tough at LSU. Yeah. It only lasted for so long. But I figured if I gave up alcohol, maybe I'd get her back or I don't know what my process was. I just kind of want to take a step back and really figure out who I was. And I made friends with personal trainers at a gym because I was going to like

the rec center on campus and my ex worked there. So I was like, I'm not going to go there anymore. And I went to another gym, made friends with some personal trainers. And then I really started understanding more concepts about training. And I made like a huge amount of progress within a year. And that was my last year of college. And then I ended up accepting a job offer in California. Uh-huh. So the idea is white sand beaches, warm water, palm trees, girls in bikinis, riding your bike on the beach, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's exactly what I was thinking. I'm going to California. I'm going to California. I was like, see you later, suck town. I'm going to California.

And I accepted this job offer with an oil and gas company, mind you. So I was, I was a mechanical engineer and I got this job offer to do, I didn't even know what the hell the job offer was for exactly, but I was like, I'm going to California and they pay well, so I'm going to accept it. And cause mind you, I came from really humble beginnings as well. So money was always like a topic of conversation. And I'm not going to be a renunciate. Essentially. Yeah. Because I saw how I saw, you know, growing up in a humble household, you see how much your parents talk about it and struggle and worry about it. And they did everything and they provided me with like a beautiful childhood. And like, I'm still amazed at how they did it. But, you know, I made it to

my, I felt like I had a duty to them to find a great paying job so that I would fulfill their original plan of giving me better opportunity. Right. So my brother and sister had their own paths. Um, there's, you know, they're, they're successful in their own ways. Um, but they didn't follow like a straight line like I did. And I was just like, I'm going this way and this is where the money's at. So, I'm going there. And I accepted this engineering job with the intention of working in Long Beach, California. I was like, well, it's not LA, but it's close. There's a beach there. So,

it's got to be like, you know, cool. In the hiring process, they called me and they were like, yeah, position in Long Beach has been, you know, changed and we need you in Bakersfield. So, I'm like, all right, you don't quite know the difference. Oh, not at all. So, I respond back, like, what's Bakersfield? And they're like, that's just another job offer. And I was like, all right. At this point, I'd already rejected a bunch of other job offers.

So, I was like committed at this point. So, I Google Bakersfield and I find out it's like, you know, it's got terrible air pollution. It's a big oil and gas town. Didn't know much else about it, but I was like, okay, I'm going. And graduated college, packed up my Jeep, didn't take anything with me and just moved to Bakersfield and started working as an engineer. Right. And realizing that you're in sort of California's version of the South, right? Like a little bit, like it's farm, it's agricultural, it's rural oil and gas for sure too.

But when you, for somebody who's never been to California, when you think of California, Bakersfield is a very different vibe. Oh, definitely. And nothing against Bakersfield. Like I loved Bakersfield when I was there. It was very familiar to me. But I had the dreams of like the California, you know, like skateboarding along the boardwalk and stuff like that.

So I get there and basically come back to the South. I think it's one of the only, it's like the most conservative county, Kern County in California, one of them at least. And start working for the oil and gas company. in California, one of them at least, and start working for the oil and gas company, find out really quickly that there's not much to do there other than like drink and, I don't know, farm, I guess. And- You didn't know anybody there either, right? Oh, not a soul, not a soul. But that's how driven I was to get out of the South and just like kind of find a place that was more aligned with what I believed in.

You know, I knew that California is a little bit more open-minded and I was like, hey, maybe I could thrive there, find more like-minded people. I never had a problem making friends, but I did have this desire to kind of find my tribe essentially. And so start working as an engineer. I didn't like it from the start. I never liked it. Basically to not bore your listeners or to put them to sleep, I was in charge of making sure pipelines, vessels, and tanks didn't blow up or leak.

So it was a lot of compliance, a lot of regulation. That's important, though. Oh, very important job. Yeah. Very important. A lot of non-destructive testing, ultrasonic techniques. testing, ultrasonic techniques. And I was the guy that basically walked into the operations office, the operations team and said, Hey, we need to shut down. We need to make a $10 million repair.

We're going to have to replace two miles worth of 16 inch pipeline, which is like their main feeder for their power plant and everything. So no one wanted to hear from you. Oh no. It was like the most least liked department in the company. As soon as my team walked in, everybody rolled their eyes and like, oh, crap, here's these guys. We're the police, essentially, making sure that the oil company follows the rules. Like IAD in the police department. Essentially, yeah, essentially. So you could see my frustration. I feel like I'm doing a good job, but then it's not well-received. And I just got bored. I got so bored about talking about corroding pipe and inspections and replacing pipelines and tanks and vessels and doing calculations all day. And

I just knew it wasn't for me. And at that time I would leave work. I'd work nine hours a day. I'd leave work, go home, change, and just go to the gym. And that's kind of where I didn't have anything else to do. I didn't have much friends. So I was like, I'll just focus on working out. Like I liked it that last year of college, I'll just continue to do this because I make friends in the gym. Maybe I'll meet some gym buddies.

I'll get to know the town a little bit better. And that's exactly what happened. So I just made some friends in the gym, started working out with more, I guess you could say advanced, you know, bodybuilders. Or there was, like, the bodybuilding community in Bakersfield, like, it's a unique place. I'll just put it that way. It's a unique place.

A lot of big dudes with big jacked up trucks, big muscles. And a lot of money, too, because they work in the oil industry, too. So these guys become, like like your bodybuilding mentors. Essentially, yeah, essentially. So I started hanging around. You had a little bit of like training understanding from your last year in college, but you're just going to the gym.

I'm gonna get jacked. Yeah, right. Yeah, same intention, same intention. And now- Maybe I'll get a big truck. Yeah, well, I have a big Jeep. All right. So I almost fit into that crowd. Yeah, it just wasn't the size that I wanted to be yet. It's not big truck. Yeah. Well, I have a big Jeep. All right. So I almost fit into that crowd.

Yeah. It just wasn't the size that I wanted to be yet. It's not big enough. Yeah. So you can see like my chameleon at work here because I fit in with like these big tatted, like the blue collar guys don't necessarily, um, hang out with like the engineers too much because there's like a, you know, just like a hierarchy or whatever you want to call it, like a social system within the, uh, the community as well. So I like blended in with those guys. I got along with them. We go get drinks and all this stuff and

we work out together. And, um, you know, naturally you get bigger when you work out with guys that push you. And that's what happened. And I remember distinctly what happened was started getting more into shape. So I started looking more into nutrition and I was like, how is nutrition affecting my gains? So that's when I started trying to optimize my nutrition and my way of optimizing my nutrition as a vegetarian at that time was I'll just take a lot more whey protein shakes. Right. Because protein equals muscle, right? Or at least that's what I thought.

Right. I can't eat the chicken breast. Yeah. No chicken breast. And you weren't eating eggs, right? No eggs. Yeah, no eggs. At that time, the only animal-based products I was eating was Greek yogurt.

I had a lot of Greek yogurt because I was like pretty high in protein, not too bad of macros and calories. A lot of whey protein shakes. I wasn't too huge on cheese except for cheese pizza, bean burritos, that kind of thing. And what else? I think that was about it. Just basically like more protein, the more protein, the better. Essentially, yeah. And if I'm not going to eat meat, I'm just going to be was about it. Yeah. Basically like more protein, the more protein, the better. Essentially. Yeah. And if I'm not going to eat meat, I'm just going to be pounding these shakes. Exactly. Right. Exactly. And I quickly found out that my stomach didn't digest whey protein. You wouldn't want to be around me if I drank a protein shake because it was just like a bloat. I'd be gassy all day, you know, blaming on other people. I'd be like,

yeah, that guy stinks, you know? But the truth was like, I wasn't meant to digest a whey protein shakes. It just never sat well. And, um, then I forget exactly how the chain of events happened, but I, I remember this part. I went to San Diego to visit a friend. I was driving back up to PCH, ended up stopping in Huntington beach because I always liked Huntington beach for some reason. And, or the vibes there, I just go along the Huntington Beach Pier, and they have like the beach boardwalk that goes underneath the pier, and I was standing up there,

and I looked down, and there's a demonstration going on. It happened to be PETA, or some kind of animal, I don't know if it was PETA exactly, but it was some kind of animal rights activist group, and they had a huge plate, and on the plate,

they had giant carrots, giant peas, and people in like a nude bodysuit that they'd look like chicken breasts. You know, if you like took a step back and looked from a distance, it looked like a plate of chicken, peas, and carrots. And they had this sign that said like, how does it look now? And you know, I didn't eat meat. It wasn't, it didn't affect me that much. And I was just like enjoying watching people's reaction to that, uh, that demonstration as getting angry. Oh yeah. Yeah. They were yelling. People were yelling. Everything was,

it just wasn't a good scenario. Uh, they were handing out pamphlets. And as I'm sitting there leaning on the railing, watching this, a woman comes up to me and she hands me a pamphlet and she goes, um, I don't know what the hell she said, but I was just like politely handed the pamphlet back to her. And I said, no, thanks. I'm already vegetarian. I don't eat meat. And she looked at me and I forget this. And she goes with like, just like a super condescending voice. And she goes, well, do you drink milk or do you eat cheese? And I was like, yeah. And she was like, well, do you know that that's one of the most cruel industries and it's even more cruel than the meat industry and you're contributing to that?

And like, then at that point, I like handed the pamphlet back to her. I was like, you know what? I don't really care. It's not for me. And I left and went home and I just thought it was a weird scenario. And as the universe would have it, again, I was on Facebook and I think my mom actually posted a video about some kind of slaughterhouse of the dairy industry, something like that. And I like sat down and thought about it. And I saw with my own eyes, this video, what was going

on in like dairy farms and how the cows were just kind of like locked in a cage where they couldn't move their head. And they just had these mechanisms hooked up to them and they were sucking the juices out. And I just thought to myself, I was like, wow, like I'm contributing to that by eating it. And I made a decision like on the spot and I was like, I can't do this anymore. And I just decided to give up dairy together too. Like as ineffective as I thought that, you know,

whole scenario was, it worked because it planted the seed in my mind. And I just happened to see another thing that reinforced it and I just changed and I went plant-based at that moment. Wow. And before that, you'd never flirted with the idea of going vegan or you hadn't developed any awareness of dairy industry practices or anything like that? I think I knew a little bit. Yeah. But you're like, come on, man. I've never eaten meat. Like leave me alone. Yeah.

That was my argument. I was like, dude, I'm doing less harm. You don't kill the cow. What's the big deal? You know? But yeah, there was a big deal. So I ended up giving that up and I was just like, all right,

like now what? Like, I guess I'll go vegan or I guess I'll go plant-based. And I had known about- What year was this? This was, I was 25. So I'm 28 now or 28, well, actually about to be 29, 29 in a few weeks. Yeah, almost four years ago. And I basically started looking up plant-based nutrition because at this time I'm still very into bodybuilding and whatnot. I knew you could build muscle. I knew there was a lot of myths out there about not eating meat because I was like doing it. I was building muscle without eating meat.

But I really did have my doubts about building muscle without any animal product, without my whey protein and my Greek yogurt. And yeah, I just kind of, I was like, well, now I, my whey protein and my Greek yogurt. And, uh, yeah, I, I just kind of, I was like, well, now I'm in it. I can't go back. I'll just make this work. And that's when I started figuring out that, Hey, there's a lot of health benefits to not eating dairy and whey protein and all this other stuff. And so I switched over my, my whey shakes with plant-based shakes. I started incorporating a lot more like legumes and lentils into my, my, my nutrition program at the time. And yeah, I just went, you know, dove head first. And what were the, the resources that you were looking to? Like, was it YouTube videos or were you reading books or like watching Dr. Greger's videos or like Robert Cheek has his

vegan bodybuilding site at the time. I don't know how active he is on that now, but there were some resources available. Yeah, there were some at that time. I think it had to have been, what, 2000? It was like 2014, the end of 2014, beginning of 2015 when that kind of transition happened. And I looked up vegan fitness, vegan bodybuilding, that stuff. And I did come across Robert Cheek's website, and there was a lot of great resources there. But I'm a much more like practical guy.

I just like to be my own kind of experiment and to see what works, what doesn't work. You're going to engineer yourself. The engineer. That's exactly what happened. I like to figure out how things work, optimize it, and maximize it. And I just started eating more, learning that I can incorporate more carbs, a little bit less protein. I read a book. I wish I could remember the name of the book. It was called like Vegetarian Sports Nutrition or something. And I learned a lot about that book.

And I just kind of reassured that, you know, I can do this. I can do this. And at the gym, one day I was walking into the gym and there was a guy that was selling supplements and I knew him. He was doing like a little giveaway type of thing. And he goes, hey man, you're looking pretty good. You should do a bodybuilding show. I just laughed.

I was like, yeah, right. I mean, did you look, how did you look then versus like what I'm looking at right now? So I was in good shape. I was definitely in good shape, but I was about 30 pounds lighter. So I, maybe not good shape, but I was about 30 pounds lighter. So maybe not 30 pounds. I was probably about 20 pounds lighter.

So right now I'm about 190, somewhere around there. At that time, I was like 160, 165, somewhere around there. And I literally laughed in his face. I was like, yeah, right, dude. You think I'm going to get on stage in a a speedo and flex in front of like a crowd of judges? Like, first of all, what would my like corporate job think of that? Like if they saw pictures floating around of me in a speedo. Yeah. And the Hare Krishna community. Oh, at that time I had like, at that time I had completely kind of like

almost disassociated myself with the Hare Krishna movement because, um, I didn't feel like I belonged at the time. I had been spending so much time in my life suppressing it and downplaying it that I did become disconnected. Like there was a disconnection there. So, uh, I stopped going to the, to the temple for a long time. Uh, I would go back to the temple when I'd go visit my parents and whatnot, but I never really went proactively on myself

and learned more or did more reading on it and kind of really understand the entire thing. So I wasn't worried about the Hare Krishnas and what they thought. I'm just like, I can't escape like the juxtaposition, like the contrast of those two worlds, like the bodybuilding world and like the Hare Krishna community. Oh, like the bodybuilding world and like

the Hare Krishna community. Oh yeah. I'll get into that later too. Okay, good. I'll get into that later too. So here I am at the gym and this guy's like trying to convince me to do this show. He's like, dude, it's in Bakersfield. Like, come on. Like it's in two months. You got enough time. You look great. I know a guy, he can help get you stage ready. And I was like, no, dude, like that's just not for me. Like I could never see myself doing that. And he connected me with the guy either way. And I was like, well, maybe I could learn something anyway. And the guy was like, yeah, you should do the show.

You look great. You have a good chance of winning. And I was like, you know what? Like, can we curse on here? Yeah, go ahead. Okay, I was like, yeah, fuck it. Like, why not? What else you got going on?

Yeah, exactly. I was like, I hate my job. Like I might as well find something that I'm passionate about. And maybe I like working out you got going on? Yeah, exactly. I was like, I hate my job. Like I might as well find something that I'm passionate about. And maybe I like working out. Maybe this will give me a goal to, to strive for. And, uh, I picked the date and I remember I trained for eight or nine weeks, somewhere around there. I contacted this coach and he had no experience with vegetarianism, veganism, especially. And he was like, look, I can't help you with what to eat, but maybe I can give you some guidance on like how much to eat. And he was like, look, I can't help you with what to eat, but maybe I can give you some guidance

on like how much to eat. So I was like- And is the coach, is the focus really on the nutrition side of it? Or is it on the actual training aspect of getting ready for something like that? So I thought it was on training, but you quickly realize that it's all about nutrition.

If you have a good foundation and you focus strictly on nutrition, you don't even have to go to the gym and you can- It's like, because if you can get lean enough, like it overcomes the fitness because you looked more jacked than you actually are. Exactly, like we all have muscle under here. It's just about trying to expose it, right? So if you just eat correctly,

you can expose that muscle a lot greater by reducing the amount of body fat you have on your body. So he helped me with how much to eat. And I was just kind of left in the lab, you know, mad scientist style, like picking different foods and experimenting and trying to see which foods work best to yield the best results. So like, as you could imagine, I'm a data-driven person. So I would track everything. I tracked my workouts. I tracked how much I ate, how many calories, how many micronutrients, macronutrients, everything was in the nutritional program that I was following. And-

So you're doing like spreadsheets and stuff on all this? Oh yeah. I'm a spreadsheet guru, man. You don't even know. And where are you getting your workout routines from? Is it the gym? A combination, a combination. So he gave me a workout routine and I followed it. And then I did my own stuff. Like I always had my own routines and I would do, cause I knew what like worked best for me. And, you know, eight weeks later go by

and, you know, now we're here at the show day and I'm like terrified. I'm like, what am I doing? And I didn't get up there on like a, what do you am I doing? Like, I didn't get up there on, and like, uh, uh, what do you call it? Uh, Speedo. I didn't get up there on Speedo. I did a different division called men's physique and they wear the board shorts. So they were like the beach shorts. I didn't even know that there were different. Oh yeah. There's a lot of different, there's a lot you don't know about bodybuilding, man. It's a different, it's a different subculture.

This is not, um, IFBB. No, no. So this was the organization called IMBA, which is International Natural Bodybuilding Association. And hold on a second, because this is like a subculture I know nothing about. So do you like shave your body and do the fake tan thing and put the oil all over you? And are you starving yourself for like a week to get as lean as possible?

Is it like a wrestler protocol where you're trying to literally lose as much, not just fat, but water content? What does that look like? Yeah. So it's kind of similar to a wrestling protocol or like an MMA protocol, but you want to be as efficient as possible. So you want to reduce as much body fat. You want to reduce as much water retention as possible in the final week. Well, actually the weeks leading up to it, you want to reduce as much water retention as possible in the final week. Well, actually, the weeks leading up to it, you want to reduce as much body fat. The final week, you're more focused on reducing the amount of water retention that you have so you can appear as lean and crisp as possible.

Right. And what are the techniques for doing that? Similar to wrestling where you do water loading and you do a lot of cardio. Do you wear like that suit that makes you sweat and get on the treadmill? Some people do. I'm not a big sweater, so I don't really sweat that much water out of me. And it's not a really good approach because you just reintroduce water and you store it again. So the way it works is that like the week leading up to the show is called peak week. And there's different strategies for it. At that time, what I was doing was water

loading at the beginning of the week. So I drink like start off at one gallon, then I go to two gallons a day, then I go to three gallons a day. And then towards the end of the week, I would, I would basically, or sorry, I'll go back. I would drink, I would water load at the beginning of the week and I would reduce as much as possible the amount of carbs I was eating. Because the theory is that carbs attract water. You want to deplete all of your glycogen stores. So all of this extra fluff and water

that you have in your system, you want to burn as many calories and deplete yourself as much as possible. So you look really like a raisin, like shriveled and flat, and you can't get a pump in the gym. It's just miserable. You're like, you have carb head, like carb fog.

So they call it, you can't think straight. You get hangry. Yeah, it's so ironic because you feel terrible, right? But then your skin's like paper thin. Exactly, exactly. So I tell people this all the time. Like the guys on stage, they look the best, but they feel the worst.

Yeah, we hear that all the time. Also, you know, these guys will say, and I'm sure you would mimic this, that you can only maintain, whatever that, you know, you get that photograph on stage and then literally like six hours later, you know, when you finish and then you eat or you drink water, then it goes away. Yeah. Like you can only maintain it for like the just tiniest finite amount of time. Exactly. It's beautifully put. So like I said, my grandpa was an airline pilot. So I like to use this analogy.

It's like you're landing a plane. So you see your target, you see your runway, and you choose that X amount of weeks in advance. So you want to slowly lower or descend to that target. So you want to slowly lower or descend to that target. So if you go, you know, 12 weeks out from a show, just cut out all your food, do as much cardio as possible, you're going to kill yourself. You're going to burn out, you know. So it's about kind of timing everything to the exact hour of stepping on stage. So you're trying to land this plane. The final week would be the landing gears coming out. And then touchdown would be stepping on stage. So you're trying to land this plane. The final week would be the landing gears coming out

and then touchdown would be stepping on stage. So the final, basically 24 hours before the show at that time, what I was doing, I still kind of do it now. So you're water loading all week. Then towards the end of the week, you taper off and then you completely stop drinking water the night before. And what happens is that the theory is, and I talked with some doctor about the kind of more of the metabolic process that goes on behind the theory, and he confirmed some of it, that, you know, the more water you drink, your body will release a hormone to dispel more water to kind of keep things going. And if you do water loading and then you cut it off, then that hormone will still be there. So there's like a lag period

and you'll just kind of pee out more water than you should. So it's like you're draining yourself completely of water. And then- Because the body thinks, well, water's coming because it's been coming. Yeah, so the gear is still going, right? So the wheel is still turning. And then you reintroduce carbs the day

before and the day of the show. So you got, we call carb loading. So guys will pound thousand grams of carbs, uh, Friday, a thousand grams of carbs before they step on stage. And what happens is, is it, it basically, the theory is that glycogen attracts water. So it'll, now that you're introducing glycogen to your muscles, it's sucking all the water to your muscles. So it's giving you this really good pump and this fullness, right? I had no idea about any of this. That's crazy. Yeah.

I mean, it's a really crazy concept to put your body through this amount of torture too. To just basically appear a certain way for a short period of time. You train 10 weeks for 10 seconds on stage. Like that's how crazy bodybuilding is. Well, yeah, but by, in fairness, you know, Usain Bolt trains years for however long it takes him to run 300 meters. True. It's not that different.

Yeah, that's a very good point. It's just a funny concept to me still to this day. It's a funny concept. It is comical when you really think about it. Yeah. And then on top of that, on top of that, you put yourself through so much effort and you, you end up paying to do these contests. Then you pay somebody who you've never met to judge you on how you look. And there's a certain amount of self-worth that you get whenever people tell you that, Hey, you don't look as good as that guy. I'll just tell you right now. So we're going to

place you at the end of the line. It's a weird thing. Yeah. And there's a weird, you know, let's face it. There's a bizarre like strain of narcissism. Oh, definitely. And it is a sport and I respect that. And I'm super interested in hearing what you have to say about the world.

But it's distinct from other sports in a very unique way. So you have to be a little extreme to be a bodybuilder. Like in some sense, you have to be extreme as a person's personality. There has to be something there in order for you to go through that. Same as all like elite level athletes. I feel like we have this thing about us that- What is that thing? Like is there a common like personality or emotional archetype that you see that drives What is that thing? Like, is there a common like personality or emotional archetype that you see that drives people into this world? I think a lot of it is the dream. I think a lot of it is that dream and that allure of being the best bodybuilder in

the world, having this like insanely attractive physique. And something happens through that whole process to where that might be the goal initially, but then a lot of people really do fall in love with it. And it becomes their meditation, their therapy to go to the gym and just work on yourself. So I respect all bodybuilders in all types and forms. But I feel like we all share that commonality amongst us. All right, so let's go back to this first competition. So you're learning all of this as you go, right? First competition, you train for eight or nine weeks or whatever it is.

You get up on the board with the board shorts on. Yeah. What happens? Yeah, so we go through the whole process too. So the tanning is the first time I ever got a spray tan in my life. And I was just like, not the last. Yeah, definitely not the last, unfortunately. So I get spray tanned. I go on stage and I do my, my posing routine. And I entered, I think two divisions at that time. It was like the novice and then the open class. Cause I was like, Hey, maybe I might win the novice. Maybe I'll get destroyed in the open. Um, so I entered two physique or two categories ended up going on stage twice. So give me a little bit more stage time,

more experience. And I did my posing routine. I had like my, my girlfriend at the time, a couple of friends in the front row. So it was like a hometown show for me. So they were all cheering me on. So I got like a lot more confident when I was on stage. Right. And you got a girl, you just skipped over the fact that you got a girlfriend in Bakersfield. I did. Okay. I knew that. Go ahead. Yeah. And so as a show would have it, I ended up winning the novice division and then won the overall for the novice division. And then in the open division, overall for the novice division. And then I, in the open division, I won my class in the open and then won the overall for the open. So I basically swept the entire show in my divisions. And I walked home that day with like six trophies. Like it was weird. I had like six trophies,

a plaque and this gigantic, uh, bodybuilder trophy that was like, no, I think he was like this, like just both arms raised. And I was like, this is so cool. Like this was all the hard work that I'd been working for. And it's this big gold plastic trophy, you know? And literally brand new to the sport, first competition ever. Yeah. Like that's crazy. So, so a funny thing happened after that. Obviously I was really happy. But the question that I avoided my entire life was now the most common question that I was getting. And that is, what do you eat? So I was forced to tell them that, you know, I did it all vegan. I did it all plant-based. So going into that, nobody knew that was just your thing. I didn't announce it. No one knew who you were or anything.

No, no. I mean, amongst the gym members, some people may have known who I was, but Bakersfield is a pretty small town. Word gets around really quick there. And, you know, they were really shocked. I had two impressions whenever I tell people that I did it without eating the standard typical proto or the prototypical bodybuilding diet, which is like chicken and rice, egg whites in the morning, wash it down with a protein shake. Then you drink, you're eating your salmon and asparagus. So all of these things are very heavily animal-based

and they're consuming a large amount of it too. So the fact that somebody just won a bodybuilding competition without eating any of that is a little bit like concerning or just like disbelieving to people. So- On top of that, it's worth noting that,

you know, a common thing that you also hear with people that are, with vegan athletes or vegetarian athletes for that matter is, yeah, that's fine, but he only stopped eating meat like a year ago or two years ago or five years ago. He made all his gains. He got big when he was playing football in college, when he was eating meat all the time. You've never had meat in your whole life.

Yeah. But the vegan thing didn't come in until the lead up to this competition. So you trained for this specific event, totally vegan for the first time. Yeah. So basically 10 weeks before that, I went vegan. And I basically made it really challenging for myself. I was like, I'm going to train for my first bodybuilding show. I'm going to train as a vegan. I have no idea what to do for was like, I'm going to train for my first bodybuilding show. I'm going to train as a vegan. I have no idea what to do for both, but I'm going to figure it out. And so I started telling people, I was like, look, you're not going to like it, but I did it all vegan. I did it eating like, at that time I was like, I was relying on like alternative meats.

So I'd have like veggie chicken. And what else was I having? Just like a lot of lentils, like high carb foods, which was kind of going against the grain too. And people were just kind of like immediately turned off and they were like, yeah, that's cool. Whatever. And then they just like go about their day. But then I found out that I shared it on social media. Like I never once made like an announcement that like, hey, I'm going vegan like a lot of people do now. I just kind of did it behind the scenes and then I just kind of came on the scene as like a vegan. And I shared like pictures and I was like, you know, I just won this bodybuilding competition and people say you can't build muscle without meat.

And I did it, you know. So I got a lot of like positive feedback from that, from people. And a lot of people asking me questions online, not necessarily in real life. Some people were interested in real life. But online, I figured I could probably reach some people that were like me and didn't believe it was possible. So maybe I can inspire somebody. And I started sharing my journey a little bit more. And that's kind of where this whole thing began. Right. And we're going to get into that. But just sort of of where this whole thing began. Right, and we're gonna get into that, but just sort of back in this lead up to this competition,

I'm interested in your experience training for the first time vegan, like when you made that switch, okay, I'm not doing the dairy anymore. What was the experience in the gym? Like, did you, you know, were your gains truncated by that? Did it help your training? Did it hinder it? Like, how did you kind of navigate figuring out how to make it work? So, the first thing I noticed whenever I cut out the dairy products was how much better I felt, like, from a digestion point of view. I didn't experience the bloat, the gas, the discomfort

that I felt quite often whenever I would eat dairy products. And I just figured that I was probably lactose intolerant, never got tested for it. I just figured I wasn't really digesting it that well. So that was the reason behind it. So as soon as I cut that out, I realized that I had this like new sense of clarity, um, a new sense of energy in the gym. And I wasn't like, I wasn't getting as sore anymore. So what happened was, is that I could train more frequently because I wasn't as sore the next day. I was like, well, I guess I'm going to train again. Like my, I feel good. Like I'm just going to do it. And I immediately noticed that I could train more and that therefore you train more frequently, you see better results quicker. So it was immediate, the feeling. And I was

already eating really clean, mind you. So it was just that next level of cleaning up the diet even more. Yeah. That's what you hear all the time. It's not that going plant-based inherently makes you a better athlete, but my experience, and it sounds like your experience and the experience that you hear from so many people who have made this switch, is that it expedites the recovery process. You know, the fact that you weren't sore means the body is repairing itself more expeditiously

than what you were accustomed to. So in turn, you can push yourself a little bit harder. You can train a little bit more frequently. You can go a little bit longer. You're less a little bit more frequently. You can go a little bit longer. You're less likely to get injured or have to take a rest day or to get sick because you over-trained. And when you protract that over the course of a season or a number of months or even years, you're going to have serious performance gains as a result. So, yeah, basically when you train for a bodybuilding show, you experience all those things like cumulatively. Right. So I noticed the difference and I feel like

touching on what you talked about earlier is that people, they don't know they feel a certain way because it's just their normal. Right. So I never knew that there was another approach that I could feel sore less, which could allow me to train more because I just knew that I worked out, I would get sore, it would take me X amount of days to recover. I just figured that's how it was. And that was as a vegetarian, mind you. So I always feel like everybody has their own sense of like homeostasis and their own normality that they kind of always linger around, right? So imagine all the people that are out there listening and they are consuming this diet that they've been eating their entire life.

And it's just normal. It's normal to feel like lethargic after eating a heavy meal. It's normal to feel this way the entire day to have to take a nap or that you get headaches every day or that, you know, you just have this irritable bowel syndrome or whatever the case is. It's just normal. And then you cut something out and there's like a new sense of normal and you're like, whoa, I feel great. Like, this is what it's like? This is what it's like to feel this way? I never knew that was possible. So essentially that's kind of the transition that most people experience when they go plant-based because it's like, they're, they're experiencing this new energy, this new

sense of, uh, thriving and the performance comes after, like, you know, you have better mental clarity. You can think better. You're happier. You're more likely to be more productive, you know, go longer in the gym. Yeah. It's all good, man. Yeah. So, after that first competition, are you thinking like, hey, maybe I have a career here? Like, the universe was, you know, loud and clear. Like, hey, man, you're pretty good at this. No. So, what comes next? No, I would never say that I thought I had a career in it at that point. I thought, you know what? I want a local

show. There wasn't that many people. What did I really win? You know, like there was no, there wasn't like a serious amount of competition there. So that's when I looked at other competitions, like coming up and I found one in Fresno and I was like, okay, this is a bigger show, bigger city, um, a lot like more established competition. So I was like, I'm going to go for that one. Uh, the difference was that it was non-tested. So I knew going into it that I'd be going against guys that were probably taking stuff or. So it's a different, it wasn't... This isn't the board shorts organization. This is like a different... No, still board shorts, but different federation. So it's like just different organizers, different set of contest rules, regulations. And non-testing

just means they're not drug testing. Yeah. So you know these guys are going to be jacked up on whatever. Yeah. I mean, that's not to say everybody, but I knew that that was a very strong possibility that I'd be going up against guys that were probably at a big advantage compared to me. And I entered that show. I don't know how many weeks later it was, but I entered that one and ended up winning the overall there. And at that point, then I was like, okay, there is no limitation to this. I'm not restricted by this diet. I can compete against guys. It doesn't

matter what their diet or their lifestyle is. I can compete. And that's what really- You're still brand new. Yeah. Yeah. So, I- There's so much potential out there waiting for you. Yeah. I think when you win at anything, it makes you a little bit more inspired- Of course. To work harder and see what else you could do. And that's, that's kind of where I was at when I won that second competition. And how does it work? Does somebody come up to you

after the competition and go, Hey, like, let me take you to the next level, or you should do this now, or let me guide you or, you know, how, what are the mechanics of how it unfolds? No. So they have like different, it's like a qualification series. So if you competed at like a national level show or sorry, a national qualifier, you have to place in a certain rank to be able to compete at the next level, which is all the winners. So that's the national show. And then in the national show, if you win a certain rank, normally it's first or second in your class, then you get awarded a pro card. So that's kind of like the progression there. It's almost like going from like the high school

to college to the pros. And after I won that second show, I was like, man, I'm qualified. There's a national show next year. I think I can compete. So that was my new goal. Right. So then what happens there? So I think like maybe a year and a half later, I did a couple other shows and won some, I got second in some, and I was still qualified for the national show. And then that's when I was like, okay, if like, what's my goal here? I was like, if I can prove, cause it goes in stages, right? First people say you can't build muscle without meat. Then people say you can't win a bodybuilding show

without meat. I did both of those. Then people say, well, you can't compete against the pros. And then it is like, the bar keeps getting set a little bit further. I'm like, okay, well, I'm this far. Well, because the cognitive dissonance is so deep that no matter how many times you continue to defy it, the goalposts just keep moving.

Exactly. They've got to point to some other reason that affirms their worldview. Exactly. So, to this point, I was so kind of like, watch me. Just watch me. Right. So, that was the drive. That was the drive.

That's where it was coming from for you. Yeah, in a sense. And you start sharing this stuff on social media. So now this is becoming like a public thing. Yeah, so then I started like waving this flag and I was like, hey, I'm doing it this way. Like there's a different approach that I didn't know existed.

Like I found the secret sauce. So those who are interested and want to learn more about it, come follow because I'll be posting about it a lot more and follow my journey. And that's where the whole social media aspect started kind of snowballing and getting a little bit more well-known within that community. But it's like I said, a year and a half later, here I am going into my first national show. And it's the biggest show of them all in Las Vegas. And I don't know how many guys there are per class, but essentially each, there's like six or seven height classes. Each one of the height classes is larger than most of the local cumulative amount of people. So there's more people in a height class than there is in a total competition. Right.

And a local level. And you're in the Speedo now? No, no, still in the board shorts. Really? Yeah. Same division, just different federation. How are you supposed to see the quads? They don't judge on this one. So there's different levels of bodybuilding. It goes like super heavy weight, then like heavy weight, and then like different weight classes. And then they go like classic physique, which is like kind of like there's height and weight limitations then they go men's physique which is the one that i'm in and it's more like more the cover model aesthetic kind of uh not so massive guys not like mr olympia no there is a i mean you can't compete to be mr

olympia but in that division but not like guys like guys like Phil Heath that are just huge, like 250 pounds on stage, dry. And so there I am going to my first contest and I ended up winning my class. So that meant I was going to be awarded my pro card. And I walked off stage at that point and I got like super just like emotional. Like I had reached my goal. I became a professional athlete and it was, it was just like overwhelming. So I stepped off stage and I was just like, wow, I did it. Like I really did it. And I was just thinking in my head, I was like, this is going to do so much good for everything I represent because now people can point to somebody and say, Hey, you can be a pro because that guy did it.

You can compete against elite level bodybuilders because that guy did it. And that was kind of one of my reasons for doing it. I love bodybuilding and everything else, but it becomes much easier to immerse yourself in work and sacrifice whenever you're doing it for something beyond yourself. Of course.

Because bodybuilding is a very, very vain sport. You have to be selfish. You have to be vain because the only way you can get to that level is by only focusing on one thing, and that's building up your physique. So the fact that I was doing it, or I had this kind of team behind me and I was representing them. So I felt like I couldn't let them down now. So I had to work hard. I had to stick to everything. And now that I went pro, I was like, we made it guys. Like it wasn't just me making it.

It was everybody making it. And that's kind of where I like, I decided like, yeah now I'm really going to be vocal about it because now you can't tell me shit because now I'm a pro. So what's your excuse now? Like, what more do I have to prove? And then now the argument. I know what's coming. what's your excuse now? Like, what more do I have to prove?

And then now the argument. I know what's coming. Yeah, now the argument is like, yeah, but you can't make it to Olympia. And I'm like, all right, watch me. Just watch me. Just give me some time. That's what's next. That's what's next. And how big is that leap from what you've accomplished to Olympia?

Not much. Not much. So they changed up the qualification for Olympia? Not much, not much. So, uh, they changed up the, the qualification for Olympia now, but it was previously, if you won an overall at an Olympia qualifier, which is normally like a big pro show, then you automatically get to go to Olympia. Like if you won first. Uh-huh. And you've done that? No, I haven't done that yet. But if you get second, third or fourth or fifth, you get a series of points. And at the end of the year, the guys with the most points get invited. Uh, now, since there's so many guys that are

competing again, they went into a point system. So you have to compete year round now and place in the top five consistently to get the most points by the end of the year. And they invite the top 30 guys, top 40 guys to Olympia. I see. So you're now training for various events and trying to accumulate those points. Yeah. Yeah, essentially. So how far or close are you to that? So this year wasn't what I wanted it to be. There was a couple of things happened between 2017 and 2018. So I moved from Bakersfield to Long Beach, California. Basically, I went through this self-awakening and I was like, I can't live here anymore. Like it's, I'm capping out. I'm like limiting.

I was in a bad relationship and I need to get out. So I went on a trip to Bali and just had this like kind of like self-aligning moment where I was like, what am I doing? Like I only live once. Why am I wasting my time slaving away for something that I'm just not bringing me any happiness or joy? So I went back home, went to my boss's office that first day. And I was like, look,

you need to find another place for me in this company or I need some time off to go interview for other companies elsewhere because I just can't do it anymore. He was like, don't quit. There's a spot for you in Long Beach. So I ended up transferring to Long Beach. Thought that would solve my problems

as far as being unhappy with a job because it was a new location. It was closer to LA, all my friends, a lot more to do. I worked there for five months and I was more miserable than ever because now I was garnering a lot more attention on social media and seeing like firsthand the impact that I was making to the people that I was trying to reach. And I remember I went to an event in London and I gave a speech in front of, I don't know how many people, 500 people, something like that. And afterwards, a guy came up to me and said that I helped save his mom's life. And I was like, how's that? And he goes, well, you were the reason that I went vegan. And my mom was a type two diabetic. She couldn't get out of the bed and she saw how I was surviving and thriving on a vegan

diet. So she was willing to try it. And since she went plant-based, she's able to move around. She like cured a lot of her, her illnesses. And I completely think that you helped save her life. And it like brought me to tears and I was just like, still gets me like going now. And I completely think that you helped save her life. And it like brought me to tears. And I was just like, still gets me like going now. And I was like, what am I doing? Like, why am I wasting nine, 10 hours a day for something that I hate? And like- And technically you're a professional athlete. Yeah. And like, I didn't tell anybody at work. Like in Bakersfield, people knew. In Long Beach, I didn't tell anybody because I didn't want them to know. And I was like, so I was kind of like going to, this is what happens.

So I was like, go to events in like London and give speeches. Right. Was that Devolution? No, that one was London VegFest. That one was London VegFest. So like, here I am going to London, traveling different countries, giving speeches about something I'm so passionate about. And then coming home, talking about happiness and talking about living your dream. And I come home and living a nightmare.

So I went to the office that Monday. It was a 6.30 meeting. And we start talking about the same shit. Corroding pipe, compliance, different projects. And I felt this, like, I've never felt this before, like such a state of claustrophobia that everything was like closing in around me. And I had to like get up and leave the room. And I knew that as soon as, yeah, panic attack. Yeah. Sort of like hyperventilating. And as soon as the meeting was done, I didn't go back into the meeting. As soon as the meeting was over, I went to my boss's office, closed the door. And I was like, I'm putting in my resignation.

Like, this is my last two weeks or week or something. And he was like, whoa, like, where is this coming from? So, he was like, you know, what are you going to do? And I'll never forget this conversation. Like, he's a pretty level-headed guy. I try to explain to him that I have like, you know, this passion for spreading awareness about veganism. I'm a bodybuilder. He's like, yeah, I figured you were like something. And I explained it to him and he goes, he goes, so you're quitting to become a vegan?

Right. And I go, I go, I'm already like in a sense yes a professional vegan a professional vegan yeah to talk about being professionally and um yeah I didn't expect him to understand and he was like well you know congrats to you you know he was really receptive of it and I'd only been working there a couple months and he was like you got bigger balls than i do because you know i got like a family to feed and all this stuff so i can't make that jump but props to you for following your heart and following your dream then like it's good man yeah sent you off with well wishes oh yeah we have we had a great relationship and great guy and everything and i really appreciate that conversation

too but then it's like all right well like now how am i going to make this work yeah yeah exactly so so i mean going back to the london thing i i felt like i was doing a disservice to the community and to so many other things by not fully investing myself into like my purpose that i felt like I had to. And that was the main reason why I quit my job. I, you know, I was like, you know what, I'll figure it out. Uh, yeah, I'm giving up like a really well-paying job, like six figures at 23, you know? So I'll make it work because money's not everything. You know, I have a ton of money in the bank account or I did whenever I was like working there, I was like, I have a lot of money in the bank account. What happiness has it brung me? Nothing. So, but when I'm truly happy, money

doesn't matter because it's like, I'm having a sense of fulfillment and I'm helping people. And that's what I really- It's your version of renunciation in the modern world. Yeah. You know, like that, that, that, whatever compelled your mom, it's almost like that same trigger came up for you. I came full circle is what happened. I thought that all these things would bring me happiness. You know, having a title, having a well-paying job, having a condo on the beach, you know, all the material things. I thought it would bring me happiness.

But, you know, the more you work for it, the more you become a slave to it. And after I kind of renounced it and just kind of sat back and I was like, I immediately had like regret. I was like, what the hell did I just do? Like, I just fucked this up. What's going to happen now? Yeah. And there's that like projection that perhaps some people have that they're placing on you. Like, oh, well, he's a pro.

Like he's getting paid and like, well, he's a pro, like he's getting paid and like, well, like there's sponsors and there's all this, there's the reality versus the imagined reality that perhaps your social media following might've projected upon you. Yeah, people have this idea that when you become a professional bodybuilder,

the opportunity just come raining in and you get paychecks left and right. Like you don't get paid, like you pay. You pay them, you pay them. Like I'll put it this way. If you win a bodybuilding show in my division, you might get two to $3,000 to win first place. How much does it cost you to go to Denver, pay for a hotel room, pay for a flight, pay for all the meals? Like you break even, like even though you might win a small purse, you break even. So people thinking that they're going to become super rich from being a pro bodybuilder. It's like, you're going in it for the wrong reasons. I'll tell you right now, uh, you got to find

something else to go in it for like maybe self-satisfaction or whatever. But, uh, yeah, I think I, I, I did have some sponsors at that point and that was kind of what was like sustaining me, uh, economically. And I just knew that whatever I did, I was going to do it fully, 100%. And now I wasn't jumping, like playing this teeter-totter game where I was like half in, half out. And I was just going to see where it would take me. And that's kind of where I'm at now. Yeah, so now you got, you started the Generation V podcast and you do like online coaching programs, right? Is that like the main source of revenue for you at the moment or how are you making it work?

So, I mean, you know, you're like, you're in social media as well. There's many different ways to make money as a social media influencer. You can do it by endorsement deals. You can do it by sponsorships. You can do it by one-off posts. You can do it. There's a million different ways. Uh, I had, I had some money in the bank and I knew I wanted to start something and something that was my own, be my own boss. Cause I never really sat well with having a boss telling me something to do. Um, so I decided that, you know, I can train people because I'm a, you know, I know the process and the system on how to make it work. Uh, cause I it work because I've trained other people before, but I never had time to train somebody when I was working as an engineer. So now I'm at this crossroads and I'm like, okay, do I want to become a personal trainer? Like, no, because you can train maybe nine, ten people a day and then you're capped out.

And I was like, that doesn't make much sense. So I figured that I wanted – like my goal has always been big. Like I want to reach a lot of people and have the biggest impact possible. So as a universe would have it, I got connected with another guy and he's like a software engineer. help a lot of people at once become vegan or try, you know, go plant-based and reach their fitness goals. And we were trying to come up with a name for it. We didn't like any of the names. And we have all these names on a piece of paper and he's like into web design and SEO, search engine, everything. So he's like, what about this one? I was like, yeah, right. We'll never get that. And it was called veganfitness.com. And I was like, well, that'd be beautiful, but that's got to be 30, 40K at least.

And it turns out he did a little search and shows who owns it. And it was one of our good friends. Oh, really? That owned the domain name. And wasn't doing anything with it? He was just sitting on it. Yeah, just redirecting it to something else. And we told him what we wanted to do.

He's also very philanthropic and all about the movement and progressing the movement, had big plans for it and just gave it to us at a very, uh, the homie discount. And that's amazing. And we ended up with vegan fitness.com. And so now we're doing online coaching, um, where we have really big plans for it as well. We have, we want it to be basically nutritionfacts.org meets bodybuilding.com. And we want to reach the younger demographic because that's the generation that's going to make the biggest impact moving forward. And if we can convince young guys, especially that being vegan is cool, you know you can build muscle, you can get the girls, you can look a certain way you can perform

as an athlete even better uh then we then we really tapped into the the change right so it's about making vegan cool and approachable and um doctors do such a good job of breaking down the science and the evidence behind it but let's face it a 20 year old doesn't give a shit about heart disease like dude i'm 20 i'm invincible i could jump off this building and punch you in the face and nothing's going to happen to me, right? So, we want to appeal to that generation and say, hey, you know, yeah, you get all these extra long-term benefits, but right now, you can be a better athlete. You can look better, perform better. And yeah, we're just, we're trying to tap into that demographic and make it cool.

That's the keys to the kingdom. And what is your sense of like where we're just, we're trying to tap into that demographic and make it cool. That's the keys to the kingdom. And what is your sense of like where we're at right now in terms of influencing that demographic? We're getting close. We're getting close. I think with enough, particularly athletes, I feel like they have a lot more influence than other people.

It doesn't matter if a doctor's saying it to you, you know, you eat this way, you become healthier. But if Kobe Bryant walks up to you, he's like, you know, you're a basketball player. You love him. You want to be the next Kobe Bryant. He's like, hey, you know, if you do this, you could, you could be me. That dude is going to change that day. Right. So we, we kind of have that mentality, that approach to convincing the younger generation to give it a try. Not to go fully plant-based, just give it a try. You know, I'll convince you to try it. The diet will convince you to stick with it. Give it two weeks, give it three weeks, you know, learn from the experts, learn the reasons how to do it or learn

the process how to do it. And then the rest will just work itself out. Oh, like I said at the outset, I mean, you're the perfect, you're the perfect person to be doing this. You know, you have the physique, you have the understanding, you have the accolades, you're a handsome dude, you're jacked, you know, you're photogenic. Like you've got, you have all the qualities to be able to penetrate that sector of the population and really shift culture in a huge way.

Like, I think it's exciting. It's really exciting. And that's kind of where it's a big responsibility to help to kind of be that link or that bridge between mainstream and subculture, but I'm willing to give it a try and to take it on. And, you know, it's like you mentioned muscle and fitness. Yeah, how did that cover come together for you?

Man, I don't even know. I don't even know. Like I had shot for muscle and fitness before, after I became pro and I was like, fuck yeah. Like I'm going to be in muscle and fitness. Like it was right after I went pro, like the week after. And I did this like eight hour shoot and with one of the best fitness photographers in the game. And it was like a agency that contacted me to do the shoot. And they were like, yeah, we like your look.

Would you be interested? And I was like, hell yeah, I will be. So I did the shoot, uh, like three months, four months later, the issue comes out and I'm like, dude, I'm going to be in it. Like there's going to be pictures of me in muscle and fitness. And, you know, maybe they'll talk about me being vegan or something. I opened up the article not even my name was mentioned like they didn't even give me credit for the for my name and i was

like damn they just used you for i was just like a stock photo like it was like a whole program like it was like it was like a seven page spread so i was like all over this this edition and not even like one mentioned my name at least they gave the they gave the hairdresser credit but they didn't give me credit and i was like happy but like i at least. They gave the hairdresser credit, but they didn't give me credit. And I was like happy, but like I had people messaging me, like, hey, they don't mention your name or anything. And I was like, well, it's me. You know, you can see me.

It's me. And so that happened in 2016. And then ironically, somebody contacted me from Muscle & Fitness again, and were like, hey, we know you did a shoot with this guy, 2016, wondering if you'd be interested in doing another shoot. Like as a model for a program that was, you know, they designed. And I was like, yeah, of course, I'd love to. I was like talking with the editor and I was like, you know, I would also like to talk about this thing that I have going on here. And, you know, I'm like one of the only, I'm the only male IFBB professional bodybuilder in my division. And I'm kind of helping carry the torch to show people what's possible without eating meat.

I'd love to talk about that. And he was like, yeah, let me see what my like editor-in-chief says. It turns out the editor-in-chief or somebody up there was vegan. And they were like, run it. Really? At Muscle and Fitness? Yeah. They were like, run it. So the guy calls me and we do a pretty long interview over the phone. Didn't think anything of it.

I thought it was going to be a little sub-article or something. And then the day comes with a photo shoot. And again, we shoot for nine, 10 hours. It's grueling to do one of those photo shoots. I don't know how many you've done, but- Not like that. Oh man, it's not. I've done, let me count, zero bodybuilding shoots. Well, I'll tell you this, it's exhausting. But here's one thing, I will tell a funny story. Like I have shot with photographers

that have shot bodybuilders, like that have shot for muscle and fitness. And I've said, so tell me how that works. And they go through the whole thing, like here you gotta like, you know, flex your stomach and like exhale all your air. And then like, you know, there's a whole thing to like make you look super epic, right?

Yeah, yeah, I mean, we spent an hour at least setting up lighting, right? He's like, stand there. The shadows. Yeah, stand there. And then he's like, you know, hold the weight. He's like, stop when you get down and really show me some effort. Cool. Takes like 10 photos.

You do it again. He looks at the screen. He's like, nah, got to do it again. Your hair's off. So you do it again, do it again, do it again You do it again. He looks at the, he looks at the screen. He's like, nah, got to do it again. Your hair's, your hair's off. So you do it again, do it again, do it again, do it again. Next thing you know, 50 pounds feels like 300 pounds. And you're like, and on top of that, you have to keep like a, you know, somewhat of a decent face and contract muscles and be very conscious of everything that's going on. Make sure that every muscle you have is flexing.

Yeah. Yeah. So do that for eight hours for 10 different exercises or 15 different exercises. And, uh, at, at the shoot, he was like, oh, we're going to do a cover try. And I was like, what's that? And he's like, oh, we're going to try and shoot. Like maybe they'll take it for a cover. And I was like, yeah, okay, but we'll go ahead and do it. So we shot for the cover and, um, that was that. And I was at, it was like a week before I did the Arnold Classic in March. And I was really happy with the photo shoot because I was seeing the pictures and I was like, oh, it's awesome. It looks great. And that was the last thing I heard. And he was like, yeah, the edition will probably come out like, you know, a couple of months later. And, you know, as luck would have it, I was just sitting on the couch one morning and a friend of mine, another pro bodybuilder sends me a DM and it's a, it's the cover of it's muscle and fitness. It's me

on the cover. And I'm like, where did you get this? And he's like, dude, I just got an email from them talking about how muscle and fitness is merging with another magazine company. And you were on the cover. And I was like, again, that sense of like, holy crap, like what just happened? I got no notification whatsoever. They didn't tell me. Never even told you. Never even told me. And after that, I was just like completely awestruck and didn't believe it was real. Like it's still surreal to me to, and on the front page, it says something about Nimai Delgado, vegan bodybuilding tips or something like that. So, he even mentioned veganism on the cover. Right, on the cover of Muscle and Fitness. Like, that's a paradigm shift.

That's like a cultural moment. It's huge, man. And like, I don't know, I didn't do the research and go back to all their covers and everything. I don't know if there's been a vegan athlete on it before, but just for them to even mention the fact that, you know that the word vegan on the cover is a huge win for the entire vegan movement. And then I finally get my hands on a copy. I open it up. It's a 10-page spread. The first page says meatless muscle. And it's got like a cow with like an X through it.

It talks about my whole story and how I've never eaten meat and how you don't need meat to build muscle. And I'm a pro bodybuilder and just goes through my whole story where we just talked about, and it was just such a, yeah, such a, like a fork in the road, like a shift. Like, man, if muscle and fitness is catching on, this is huge. Did it change things for you or what was the reaction to that article? So the reaction was really positive online. I asked all my followers to like go buy a copy first because I understand how capitalism works. You know, if that copy sells more than the rest of the copies, chances are they'll feature another vegan on the cover in the future. Or if we request more information

on vegan athletes, then they'll feature them because there's a demand for it. So I convinced all my followers, say, go buy a copy, take a picture with it, tag me, tag Muscle & Fitness, let them know that we as a movement support each other and we want it. And it was overwhelming how many photos, DMs, everything I got from that. And since then, they translated it into different languages as well. So, it's been, like, I think right now, it's in Germany as the cover. Oh, wow. It's in France. It's in Turkey. It's in Japan.

All these different countries. And it's the same article just translated. So, like, the whole world got exposure to the possibilities of a vegan diet. That's amazing, man. Super cool. Well, let's bust a few myths here. Like I'm interested in how your nutrition has evolved and how it stands in contrast

to kind of conventional wisdom about what a bodybuilder should eat, right? And kind of where you started and how it's morphed over time into whatever it is now yeah so the nutrition program that i originally started on was really reliant on kind of processed alternative meats yeah alternative meats and over the last like year maybe year and a half i kind of started you know eliminating those and introducing more whole foods, more less processed high-protein foods like tofu and tempeh, edamame. I don't do seitan just because, I don't know, it gives me heartburn.

And then plant-based protein shakes, a lot of beans, a lot of lentils. Is there a specific type that you like or- For what? For the protein powders? Uh, yeah, I'm sponsored by a brand right now and, uh, I like it and yeah, there's many out there. Like, I don't want this to be a plug, but like, there's just many other plant-based alternatives out there for, um, I mean that you can substitute easily and has just as much protein, probably got a little bit better digestibility from like a comfort level. So a lot of people deal with that same discomfort that I had when they drank whey protein shakes. And a lot of people don't experience that when

they go to a plant-based shake. Right. And what is the relationship to protein in general? And how has that kind of evolved for you? Like what's the conventional wisdom? Where did you start with it? Where are you at with it now? Like really specifically, because this is, I mean, it's like, it's the protein question, right? Like we gotta answer this question.

Yeah, no, I'd be glad to. So originally I was one of the sheeple thinking that, you know, you had to consume more protein and that would equate to more muscle, more gains. Then I realized that everything I read from a clinical study point of view, not necessarily bodybuilding.com, nothing against them. They have a lot of great information. I read from a lot of other influencers or bodybuilders. They go with the more is better approach.

So two to three grams sometime for every pound of weight, for every pound of weight. So if I was 180 pounds, I would need 360 grams of protein, you know, at least. So that's a lot for a vegan. That's a, that's a lot, a lot because, you know, to get that much protein through plants, you got to eat a lot of volume. So I started looking at it and just like, it didn't make sense to me. I was like, everything I read said like, there was like an optimal point and anything above that didn't really work to your benefit. You know, you might have extra calories, but your body kind of just like urinates the extra nitrogen and you can't really use it. Like there's a limiting factor there.

So I go by lean body mass. So just because somebody is 200 pounds doesn't need to, you don't need to consider them 200 pounds of muscle. You know, we have body fat, so you don't need to feed the body fat. You need to feed the muscle. So I always go by, I calculate my lean body mass, which is your total mass minus your body fat percentage. So if I weighed 200 pounds and I was 10% body fat, then I would, my lean body mass would be 180, 180 grams. So then there's even another fraction that is like 0.8 to 0.9 times that. And that's the number that I go by. Right. Which is, that's really the USDA recommendation, right? Or it's like 0.7 grams per kilogram, I think, is what they recommend. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm not sure exactly what it translates to in kilograms. I always go by pounds. Right. Me too. Yeah. Unfortunately,

we're American. I get this question asked so much online and I give them the answer in pounds and they're like, well, okay, I guess I'll go convert it. But, but all right. So I'll just put it like flat out. Like I weigh 180 pounds right now. I keep my protein at like 150 grams, whether I'm bulking, shredding 150, maybe, yeah, maybe a hundred and like 60, like somewhere around there. So that's a typical bodybuilder is taking in about twice that. Yeah. No, more than twice that because I go by lean body there. So that's a typical bodybuilder is taking in about twice that. Yeah. No, more than twice that because I go by lean body mass. So a lot of people calculate it by just total mass. And how did you arrive at that? And why have you decided that that's what's optimal for you? So there's, there's a clinical study out there that references, I don't know

the reference, the exact reference, but there's quite a few out there that show that, you know, after a certain point, it doesn't benefit you anymore. So I figured why not like find out where that, like, I'll use that as a reference and just kind of find out what works best for me. So like I said, I do like a lot of data analysis, tracking and optimization. So there's like certain body scans you can do to track like how much your total mass is and how much of that is muscle mass. So when you're in a deficit, like a caloric deficit trying to lead up to a show means you have to eat less than what your maintenance calories are. So you're going to lose weight. So you want to do that as optimal as possible because you don't want to sacrifice the hard-earned muscle that you just spent the off season trying to gain. So it doesn't make

sense to build up two pounds of muscle just to lose two pounds of muscle before a show. So there's a, there's a balance point there that you have to kind of hover around and like different scans, like DEXA scans will tell you how much muscle mass you have in body scans measures like resistance, muscle impedance or impedance. And we'll translate that to how much muscle mass you have on your body, what your bone density is. and will translate that to how much muscle mass you have on your body, what your bone density is. So I track that. And basically, if I'm losing more muscle than what I want as I'm cutting down for a show, I'll kind of like increase my protein a little bit because that's not the goal.

Like I want to maintain that muscle and like hold on to it and lose the body fat. So I just kind of use that as kind of like nutrition is different for everybody. I can tell you exactly my number. Somebody out there can go follow it. They won't see the same results because everybody responds differently. So that's kind of where I just use, you know, trial and error. Right. Gotcha. And what is the relationship between sourcing your protein from whole foods versus supplements? Supplements are always going to be a little bit more processed. So different doctors out there, T. Colin Campbell for one of them will tell you that when it's more processed and isolated in its isolated form, your body doesn't necessarily absorb it as efficiently. So it's always better to get the whole food source because it contains

other chemicals that will help your body absorb that vitamin or mineral or whatever. So that's kind of where it led me to, maybe I'll just go more whole food plant-based and see if I see a difference. And it's the same. So I just kind of shifted all my more alternative meat style of nutrition to more whole food plant-based. So that just means that I have to eat more carbs, more beans, more lentils, all this stuff that I love eating, a little bit more tofu and tempeh, which I love as well.

And I see the same results. Right. And you're in a sport that is terrified of carbs. Yeah. So what's the relationship to carbs and how do you think about the low carb, no carb craze and how there's a lot of talk about ketogenic diets and all different kinds of new ways

of avoiding carbohydrates in your diet as a means of optimizing performance. Yeah, I mean, just from like a basic nutrition point of view, like carbs are our energy source, right? So it doesn't really make sense to cut those all out. There are times when you can manipulate carbs to your advantage, but you don't have to, like, you don't have to cut out carbs, like very much so people in the fitness industry are carbophobic. So they refuse, like anything that says carbs in it, they're like, nah, I can So they refuse, like anything that says carbs in it, they're like, no, I can't touch it.

And anything that has protein in it, they're like, no, give me more. So my approach is like, first, like optimize how much protein you need, right? Figure that out first. Most people don't even have any clue. They say you're vegan, but what about, like, where do you get your protein?

How do you get enough protein? And I asked them, like, how much do I need? And they're like- And how do you find out how much you need protein yeah how would you optimize that for yourself like if someone's listening to this they're fit they go to the gym whatever like how would they figure that out yeah i just kind of explained it so like the figure out your total mass uh figure out your body fat percentage or an estimated body fat percentage calculate your lean body mass, and then get about 0.8 to 0.9 times that. So if you weigh, you know, if you have a hundred pounds of lean body mass, get about 80 to 90 grams

of protein and just kind of use that as like a reference. Like it's not the, it's not the perfect solution, but use it as a reference. And just play around like within that scale and see what works best for you. Yeah, exactly. And then the next thing you can do is calculate your fat percentage. and see what works best for you. Yeah, exactly. And then the next thing you can do is calculate your fat percentage. So normally I get about, I don't know, maybe 20, 25% of calories from fat

and then the rest I just leave to carbs. So that leaves me with like 50 to 60% of my diet comes from carbs. And when you say car, I mean, carbs can be anything, right? Carbs can be Coca-Cola and potato chips, right? So when you say carbs, you're talking about what specifically? I'm talking about like whole food carbs,

not highly processed, sugary white bread. Like I stay away from all that. I don't even include oil into my diet. Eat a pretty clean diet, a lot of potatoes, a lot of beans, lentils, legumes, rice, oatmeal, cereals, granola, all those things contain carbs. I eat a lot, a lot of beans, lentils, legumes, rice, oatmeal, cereals, granola, all those things contain carbs. I eat a lot, a lot of green veggies, like a lot. Like you can only see my fridge.

I go through like a 10 ounce bag of shredded cabbage. Like I eat like three or four of those a day just because like I use that as like a foundation for like my big Buddha bowls that I make. So I eat quite a bit of like green veggies too. So you're getting a lot of micronutrients, which help your body recover quicker, right? So the carbs that you're consuming are whole food plant-based and they contain other additional properties that help you perform better. Right. And what about supplements other than protein? So my supplement protocol is pretty straightforward. I'm a skeptic when it comes to a lot of supplements.

I don't believe that people put too much trust in marketing and not enough investigation in the evidence. Well, it's a multi-billion dollar industry that is completely unregulated. Yeah. And preys on people's fears and lack of understanding and knowledge. I think that's kind of how we came to this point, right? Of like the protein myth and the carbophobia and all these things. So it's like the more they can push something for you to

consume or to buy, then the better it is for them. But they're not necessarily looking out for your health. They're looking out for their pockets. So I'm a big skeptic when it comes to anything. I'll just like, you tell me something, I'll take it at face value. Then I'll go take a look and see what I can find for myself. Like trust, but verify essentially. And, um, that was like a huge engineering thing that everybody used to say, trust, but verify, like measure twice and cut once, right? That kind of thing. So same thing goes with supplements. There are certain supplements out there that work. Some that are complete phony bullshit. You're just buying expensive urine, as Dr. Kahn would say. You ingest all the supplements and all you're doing is pissing it out. And so I take protein. I'll take BCAs. I'll take vitamin D3. BCAs in addition to protein?

Yeah, standalone. And what are those doing for you? three BCAs in addition to protein. Yeah. And what are those doing for you? Uh, so basically BCAs for those that are listening are like essential amino acids. Uh, so some of them we get from our diet. Some of them we have to consume through food. And if you take BCAs during your workout, uh, you can prevent, like if you completely deplete yourself from your energy source. So normally that happens, like, I don't know, it depends on your intensity, but, uh, if you completely deplete yourself from your energy source. So normally that happens like, I don't know, it depends on your intensity. But if you run out of fuel, you'll start pulling energy from elsewhere. So most of the time that comes from muscle. So if you have BCAs in your system when you work out or when you do something that requires a lot of endurance, then it can prevent that a little bit.

So that's why I take BCAs, not necessarily because I'm trying to build muscle. I'm just trying to maintain what I already have with that. Then I'll take D3, which I think everybody should take D3. If you go get a blood test, you're probably a little bit deficient in D3. Yeah, a lot of people, probably the majority of people are vitamin D deficient. Yeah, same thing with B12.

So I take B12 as well, which we can't really get in a large quantity from plant foods. And then I take DHA and EPA. So that's more of your long, long chain fatty acids. Right. And are those from like an algae source? Yeah. Yeah. They're, they're derived from algae. So those are like my four or five main things. I take creatine like every now and then. Creatine is another like synthesized supplement. It doesn't come from animals. It's very easily available. It's cheap. And the science backs up its claims. I mean, don't expect to be Mr. Olympia by taking creatine, but it does

work. So it'll help with performance, help with endurance, strength, explosiveness, that type of thing. So I'll take occasionally creatine, but. Yeah. Is there a harm to taking that long-term? Honestly, I don't know. I think everything in moderation. That's like the key when you do anything. It's like, you don't want to rely on anything. It's like, even like I'll go like a week or so without taking any protein shakes. I'll take a look at my diet and see what I can include

that I haven't been eating that I've been getting from like a multivitamin. You know, so it's like, it's about balance. Right, are you doing, do you do regular blood work? Yeah, yeah, I do, I do. So I think that's another thing that most people don't do. They say that, you know, they feel crappy and they blame it on all these other factors, but they don't necessarily know why they're feeling crappy and getting blood work is one of the most easy ways to identify what's wrong, what's going on, right?

Yeah. So we referenced earlier that the more successful you get and every kind of hurdle that you overcome, in your mind makes you more bulletproof to the voice of dissent, but also there's gonna be the people who are like, yeah, but, yeah, but, yeah, but, right? So I can't let you go without asking about the steroids because you're in a culture in which that is,

look, it's ubiquitous. So I'm sure there are people out there like, well, he's not eating animal products, but he's doing steroids. So where do you come down on all of this? Yeah, there's a lot of people say that. There's videos out there. There's like, I mean, you name it, there's articles. There's like, it's the internet, right? Remember that. So, just remember that everything on the internet isn't true, right? You don't know who wrote it.

so low about what's possible and what's not. So I get accused of it daily. You know, I even, I think I blocked the word on my Instagram because it was just like every other comment was that, and I was just like, I'm sick of hearing it, you know, and I'm not here to defend myself to anybody. I'm here to talk about the benefits of this diet. You know what I mean? Like, if you don't believe me, it's not my job to convince you, then like, I'll just keep on living my life and talking about what I want to talk about. But the issue there is that people have set the bar so low about what's possible and what's not possible naturally. And they think that they are doing like justice by accusing somebody of taking steroids. And don't get me wrong. A lot of guys do. A lot of guys that are listening probably don't know that a lot of guys they know are doing steroids because just because you do steroids doesn't mean that you're going to blow up. Like it's always about the hard work.

It's always about the diet. It's always about sacrifice and effort, right? Supplementation, all this other crap, it accounts for this much. If you don't have this huge pyramid, you can't get like, this is the amount that supplements accounts for. So that bar has been set so low and people are so easily accusing other people of doing it, that it perpetuates that thought. And the person below that reading saying like, oh yeah, you only got this way because of steroids. Like now that person thinks that that is the only way that you can get that way, but they've never tried it. They don't know their limitations. Like how could you possibly know your limitations if you've never pushed yourself to your limitations and know how far that bar really is. And I'm the type of guy that like,

I pride myself on work. I pride myself on work ethic. I pride myself on optimizing things. It's like I'm very analytical, data-driven. So I find out what works and I apply it. And there's so much room for growth when you optimize your nutrition and you optimize your exercise programs. So many people don't do that. They think that they're going to take a magic pill, take a magic juice or whatever, and they can get there without doing all the hard work that comes before it. So my answer is like it's really easy to judge somebody based off of a photo or one picture. You don't know me. You know, you don't know where I come from. You can look at me and never, ever assume that I'm a white Argentinian Hindu, right?

Like you don't know my story. So how could somebody possibly know someone from one photo or one video when 99% of the time that person doesn't even know who they are, right? So it's like, I've accepted it. Like I've just come to terms with it. It's an argument I'll never win. It doesn't matter what I do.

I'll never convince anybody. But it's just a sad reality that these people think it's impossible, but they've already exposed the limitations of their own mindset because they don't believe it's possible for them. So, it definitely can't be possible for anybody else. Well, it's certainly more comfortable to dismiss someone like yourself as a cheater, because then it makes it easier for you to feel okay about not putting yourself out there. You know what I mean?

Like, and that's unfortunately a human quality. It is, it is. Yeah, and you know, it's a weird thing because you are in a sport where like it's rife with that. And you see these guys that have these physiques that you just know it's just, it's perhaps not physically possible for them to look that way

without some kind of enhancement. I see pictures of you and you look unbelievable, but it's not like otherworldly. Like it looks like it's within the realm of possibility. You know what I mean? Like it's different from some of those other guys. So, you know, I believe you, I take you at face value with that.

And I trust that you're telling me the truth and I appreciate your willingness to talk about it because it's gotta be a sensitive thing for you, especially when you make this decision to put yourself out on social media and you have this cause that you believe in and you're trying to kind of expand people's consciousness and awareness. And then, you know, you have to be on the receiving end

of that, but I guess that's, look, it just goes with the territory. Exactly. You know what I mean? Like you're part of this world and that's just part of it as well. It's understandable too. Like I don't get mad. I used to get mad because I was like, hey, come on.

Like I did it the right way. Like you're trying to detract or slander my name and say that it's like I'm a cheater or whatever else. And like nothing against guys who do it. I know so many guys who do it and they're great people. And it's just like me and my personal values is like I don't want to sacrifice my long-term health for short-term goals, short-term benefits. Like that's logically one of the reasons why I'm vegan, you know, because I'm looking ahead to the future. Like I wanna live a long, healthy life and spend time with my grandchildren,

have like, be able to be active when I'm that age and not be relying on all kinds of prescriptions and everything, so. Yeah, who's that guy, the bodybuilder YouTuber guy that didn't he just pass away? Rich Piana, Piana? Like, I don't know much about that story, but did he die of a heart attack or something like that?

Or heart failure? Was it drugs or was it, I don't know. I don't know. I met him a couple of times and he was actually like a really cool guy. Like nothing against anything, his personal choices or his personal choices. I don't know exactly what happened there,

but you can't help but wonder if that played a part, you know, to it. So, like I said, if there's any guys out there that are considering do it, just know that there's so much more room for you to optimize in different avenues, like in approaches you haven't tried yet. So, just don't go resort to that, you know, because you worked out for a week and you didn't see any results. Like, dude, I've been working out for like 10 years, you know, and you only see, you only have met me in my path in life at this moment, but you didn't see me like way back when, when I was just like you, you know, it takes time, but anything that's like worth it takes time. And if you're passionate about it, you can sustain it. You know, you can get there. Just take, it's how bad do you want it?

Most people want it, but they don't want to give up drinking. You know, they say, oh, I work out. I go to the gym, I eat, right? But then you take a diet of like a deeper look and they're out partying every weekend. You know, they're not willing to put in the work. So. Right. How are your parents doing with all this?

Like, where are they? They're not on the commune anymore, right? No, they don't live. Actually, they're going back. So, they live in New Orleans, right across the street from the temple in New Orleans. Yeah. And they actually bought land back in Mississippi. So, they're going back.

They're going back. Wow. Yeah. They went full circle, too Cause then they like left it and now they're like getting older. They want to go back and just live like a peaceful life, minimalistic and just, yeah. Yeah. And what do they think of this, this whole world that you're in? They, they, they all, they're like my number one fan. You know, they don't understand it as I don't expect them to. I try to keep my mom in the loop as much as possible. And she's all like, oh, it's so great, honey. Like you're

doing so many amazing things. And I love her for it. Like she doesn't have to know, like I just need her support. And that's the only thing I need. But they embrace it and they're very proud of who I am. And especially now the fact that I'm like being more vocal about my background, because that's something that they really wanted to instill in me. So now the fact that I'm talking about it more openly on a show like this, they're just going to eat it up. And it's cool how you've taken what you intuited, like what you learned as a young person, you know, as part of that community and, and made it your own in a different way. And now you're translating it

or sort of conveying the ethos, like the spirit of all of those values are being channeled in a modern way that can connect with a young audience. It's not couched in Hinduism or Himsa or any of these things. It's couched in things that are relatable to an 18-year-old kid who just wants to go to the gym

and get stronger and didn't realize when he clicked on your video or looked at your Instagram that he's also gonna get blasted with the spiritual message. You know what I mean? But you do it in a very graceful roundabout way where it doesn't feel like that's what's happening, but you're kind of elevating awareness while you're providing these people with what they think they want on a surface level, if that makes sense. You are 100% right. I guess, mindful of how I talk about certain things, especially when it comes to spirituality, comes to any ethical conversation, anything about politics. I mean, they're all very touchy

subjects for people. So I wanted to appeal to the younger generation and to develop a new sense of consciousness because I feel like certain things come in different phases, right? If you develop the consciousness first, like I had, then it's very easy to follow this lifestyle. But if you come into it for another reason, maybe the more vanity perspective, then eventually those thoughts kind of come over time. What do you mean? Like, why am I doing this? Well, we're all connected with our actions and our thoughts, right? One directly affects the other. So, initially, people might think that, hey, I need meat. I need it to look good. That's just the way it is, right? I don't like killing animals and stuff like that, but it's just the way it is. but it's just the way it is. So then I keep living that life. But if you come into it and just say, hey, I'll just change my actions. I will just stop eating meat just to look good.

Then the thoughts start to develop because they're directly related to each other and say, maybe I didn't need it. And wait a minute, why is it this way? And they develop a new sense of consciousness. And then like the, I got funny stories. Like some of these guys that you would never, ever, ever in a million years consider them to be like ever try going vegan. Some of those guys are like posting like animal rights videos and stuff nowadays. So it's like. Like guys back from the gym in Bakersfield. Yeah, a couple of them. A couple of them, yeah. So it's like, wow, like i never push that on anybody

you know i just push the health message just because i feel like that's the foot in the door that's most like a common denominator across the board that people want to look better and feel better this is your way like this is an approach you know may be coming trendy now it's been around for a while but uh or it may become more mainstream now but it's been around for a long time so if you try it you know maybe the consciousness will develop over time. And I'm not saying that people aren't conscious. I'm just saying they don't know what they don't know. What do you think is the biggest myth or misunderstanding about you and about bodybuilding in general based upon what you've learned?

Oh, man. I can be a pretty misunderstood person. Yeah. From like- What do people not get? I think we get a lot. You can correct the record now. Well, we talked about the steroid thing,

but if there's other things. I mean, like I still expect that after this episode. And I mean, I've done many interviews and stuff and like I'll expect it till the day I stop doing this. But I don't know. I mean, it goes by anything, just maybe just don't judge a book by its cover. You know, like I may come across as a person that's a vein or post shirtless photos and whatever, whatever, but it's all a strategy to get you to read a caption to maybe change your life to help you, you know? So it's

like, if, you know, there's so many people out there that are willing to judge other people. And it's just like, I come from a big place of judgment. So it's really easy for me to look past it and deflect it and just kind of understand that that's how people are. Oh, meaning like you have a lifetime of being judged. Yeah. So this is nothing new. Yeah. So it's almost like I was groomed for this, you know, to be like stand strong in my beliefs and everything and be a beacon of light for people and just be willing to take the shots, you know. But it's about understanding people as well and just understanding that people judge something they don't know. Same way that I was judged when I was a little kid and the way I was raised. And it's okay.

You know, you just have to approach them and help them understand. So that's what I'm trying to do. I'm not trying to convince anybody to go vegan, like, because I want them to go vegan or anything like that. It's like, I'm just trying to help you. Like, I just want you to feel as good as I feel, you know? And if, you know, if you put all this stuff aside as ego and these like paradigms, then maybe you can experience a different version of life that you never anticipated. So it's just where I'm at. Yeah. Beautifully said, man.

I think that's a good place to wrap it up. How much are you training right now? I train daily. Like I said, that's my meditation. But I heard you say somewhere like, oh, it's 45 minutes in the gym, right? Like I have this vision. Like I used to live on Marine Street

around the corner from Gold's Gym and I would go to Gold's Gym. And then, you know, over, I've lived in Los Angeles like 20 years and every blue moon I'll pop in over there. And it's like- The same guys. From nine to five, it is the same people. They've been going there for 30 years and they look the

same. And they're literally, it's like they check in in the morning and they're there like all day long. The same like sort of aging bodybuilder crew, female bodybuilders and the like. I always say it's like a mix between like a prison yard and a porn set. It's like, yeah, it's weird, man, you know? But then when I heard you say like, look, if you can't get it done in 45 minutes, like you're not focused. Essentially, it's what it is. Like even when I was working as an engineer, people thought I was a professional bodybuilder full time.

They had no idea, you know? Like I talk about that for that reason is that like, yeah, but it's easy because you have all the time in the world to spend three hours in the gym. I don't have that because I have a job and all this stuff. And I was like, wait, wait a minute. Like I was an engineer for, you know, five years and I lived that same lifestyle and all you need is an hour a day, you know, like that is about like, it's not like, like endurance training, I guess, like where you have to go, like, like more time equals so much better.

You know what I'm saying? Like there's a certain limit there where you can't break down anymore. You just, you become useless at that point. So there's no point in working out two hours when, you know, an hour and a half of it, you're on your phone, bullshitting, talking to people and just kind of spinning your wheels. Like that's the reason why you're not seeing results, bro. Like, cause you talk all day, you know, if you go in there with 45 minutes to an hour and really put in the work, you will walk out of there, like crawl out of there. Like, that's why like spend a day with like your gym buddy and then spend a day with me or spend a

day with another professional bodybuilder. And you'll understand why they look that way. You know, people think that just by being in the gym, you're going to get results. There's a whole industry built upon that idea. Very much so. Very much so. So, you only need an hour max. Yeah. You know, but then think about this, is that you're outside of the gym 23 hours. Which one do you think holds more weight for building muscle?

You know, like, yeah, you break down in the gym, but you build outside of the gym. Your daily habits outside of the gym hold way more value than what you do inside of the gym. So if you can get your diet right, you can get your daily habits right, get everything kind of just your ducks in a row, then the results will really start to come in.

So that's what I'm talking about, the extra growth in different aspects of people's lives. And where are you on the whole like low weight, high rep, low rep, high weight? Like, are you like, how does all that work? Like, I don't know anything about that stuff. Oh man, there's so many different, there's different theories, right?

Oh yeah. You talk to one person, it's one thing. You talk to another person, it's another thing. I'm a big believer in periodization training. So you follow something for an extended amount of time. Eventually you'll plateau because your body's so adaptive and it responds like more efficiently the next time you do it. Diminishing return. So you got to shake it up.

You got to shake it up. So I follow things for about four weeks at a time. And sometimes I'll go in and do a completely new set of training routines just to kind of help create that shock value to my body. So it'll help stimulate it to grow in another area because the more you work out, the harder it is to figure out these new ways to stimulate your body. So sometimes I'll do high rep, low weight. Sometimes I'll do low weight, high rep. Or did I say that right? Yeah.

The opposite, right? So heavier with lower reps or lighter with higher reps. There's many different people that will tell you that works there. You can do a traditional, uh, bro split, a bro splits, like a five day workout split where you go like, that's not where you get mad at your buddy. That's a different kind of bro split. That's a bro breakup. That's a bro breakup, which does create bodybuilders too. Um, so know, your five-day split would be like chest on Monday, back on Tuesday, take a rest day, legs on Thursday, arms on Friday. So it's like an isolation style workout.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then you have like your upper-lower crowd, which likes to do upper body one day, lower body the next day, take a rest day, upper body, lower body, take a rest day. Then you have people that do push-pull, where it's like you do all pushing movements. You do chest, triceps, shoulders. That's what I've always done. It's very effective. All of them work. All of them have their own uses. It's like, I tell people, like, same thing with nutrition. You have a toolbox and you have different tools for different purposes. If you use the wrong tool for the job, you're not going to get the right result. for different purposes.

If you use the wrong tool for the job, you're not gonna get the right result. So same thing with keto, same thing with the low carb thing or high carb thing. It's all like relative to what that specific point in time is in your fitness journey. Right, I like it, man. All right, parting words. Somebody's listening to this.

They're like, all right, I'm motivated. I'm going to the gym. Nehemiah, tell me what to do. What's the one thing I should do? What's the one thing I should eat? Everybody wants to distill it down into that, you know, little box that you can check. But if you could impart like some sense of wisdom or empowerment for somebody who's just trying to like get a little bit fitter, eat a little bit healthier, perhaps believe in themselves a little bit more. So there's a few different nuggets I got for this crowd. First thing is that you can't outwork a bad diet. Remember that.

Get your diet in check first, then worry about working out. When you go to the gym, go with intention and go with a plan. Have a checklist. Just by doing the checklist, you're doing more than what you would have done if you're just wandering around. Number three- Be intentional. Yeah, exactly. Walk into the gym with intention and like you're clocking into work. Like get the

work done and then worry about your other stuff later. Number three would be focus on the bigger picture. I get so many questions about what about meal timing? What about if I eat this in breakfast instead of lunch or eat too many carbs at dinner? Think about the big picture. First, worry about how much you should be eating and just choose a 24-hour period and make sure you eat that much in the day. Then break it down and say, then your next target would be how many grams of protein you're needing. And then just focus on the big things. It's like the 80-20 rule. If 20% of your effort gives you 80% of the results, focus on that.

Don't worry about the extra detail that's not going to give you or yield the most results with the amount of effort that you're putting in. So, the 20% that's going to give you the biggest results is, like I said, fix your diet. Second thing, go to the gym with intention. Third thing would be consistency. Just be consistent. Just be consistent. There's no secret formula. It's not sexy, though.

It's not. And people don't want's no secret formula. It's not sexy though. It's not. And people don't want to hear it, but it's the reality. And, you know, there's a reason why the guy in the gym that has been going to the gym for years, like you say, and they look the exact same is because they've been going to the gym and doing the same bullshit exercise they've been doing the last 10 years. And they've been eating the same exact way they've been eating the last 10 years, you know? Like they're consistent, but they're consistent in the wrong approach. So like fix certain problems first and then you start to see results climb. Nehemiah was awesome, man. Yeah.

Thanks for talking to me. Beautiful. Super inspiring. I'm really excited for the next chapter that's soon going to be unfolding. the next chapter that's soon gonna be unfolding. I think when Game Changers comes out, it's gonna strike a major chord and it's gonna put you in another stratosphere in terms of public awareness.

And it's beautiful that you're carrying this mantle and trying to help people, man. So anything I can do to help you, I think it's fantastic. Thank you, man. I really do appreciate that. And I'm ready for the next chapter. Yeah. And is there a competition coming up?

There was a few this year that I kind of started prepping for. I did three this year, back to back to back, and just kind of got, I needed to focus more on my business and everything else. So, it's like, it's really tough to juggle bodybuilding prep and traveling and speaking at events and then trying to start up a business and do that. So I decided to take a little break. Are you, you have any speaking things coming up? Is that on the vegan fitness website or on your Instagram or where should people go to? Yeah, definitely. Check you out. My Instagram, I'm probably the most active. So you just find me at Nimai underscore Delgado. So that's N-I. Why do you have the underscore? Did somebody take your name? No, I feel like I have a unique name. So people always botch it. So before it was just Nimai

Delgado, but people were like, what am I looking at? Like they couldn't distinguish where the first and last name started. So I had to put the underscore in there. And then veganfitness.com is going to be a really exciting website for people to go. It's going to essentially be like an online resource for anybody that is interested in the plant-based lifestyle from an evidence-based perspective. Yeah, that's exciting. That's very cool. Yeah. And you got the Generation V podcast recently launched.

Yeah. So check that out. Yeah, Generation V has been an exciting project. I like it a lot better than YouTube and that whole platform. Yeah, it's cool. It's a, you know, you can breathe, you know? Yeah. And you get to know people.

You get to really share a story. That's the beautiful thing about it. Yeah, like Instagram's really instant, instant gratification, right? Podcasts, you're in their ear, you're talking, they get to know you as a person. And I feel like that's more convincing than a picture. For sure.

All right, man. Peace and plants. We did it. How do you feel? I feel like that's more convincing than a picture. For sure. All right, man. Peace and plants. We did it. How do you feel? I feel good, man. You good? Yeah, I could go for another two hours. You did, all right.

You've been going. Yeah, we went 210, man. We rocked it. Awesome. Thank you so much. Come back anytime and talk to me, man. Thanks, man. I appreciate you, brother.

All right, peace. Did I not say that he is awesome? What a super cool guy i hope you guys enjoyed that let me know how this one landed for you by hitting him up on instagram at nemi underscore delgado check out his podcast generation v be sure to check out my youtube channel for the visual version of this podcast so you can see how absolutely jacked this guy is, as well as clips and behind-the-scenes stuff that we're sharing on that platform as well. And hit up the show notes on the episode page on richroll.com to take this experience beyond the earbuds.

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Until then, be well, my friends. Peace, plants, and much love. Thank you.