The Rich Roll Podcast - Prophets Walk Among Us — Thoughts On Beirut, Eradicating Single Use Plastic, Listener Q’s + More

Episode Date: August 20, 2020

Welcome to another edition of Roll On—my bi-monthly deep dive into (semi) current events, topics of audience interest, and of course answers to your questions. Once again serving up co-host duties is hype man Adam Skolnick, an activist and veteran journalist perhaps best known as David Goggins' Can't Hurt Me co-author. Adam has written about adventure sports, environmental issues and civil rights for outlets such as The New York Times, Outside, ESPN, BBC, and Men’s Health. He is also the author of One Breath, which chronicles the life and death of America's greatest freediver, and is currently hard at work on a novel. Some of the many topics explored in today's conversation include: Heart rate zones, aerobic training, functional strength & dynamic workouts The Beirut explosion, Rich's experiences in Beirut & how you can help  The politicization of USPS & compromised integrity of our forthcoming election Finding mentors in our every day lives Bureo Hat & Net Positiva -- products from recycled fishing nets The 30 Day No Single Use Plastic Challenge What is going on with QAnon LeBron James & Patrick Mahomes tackle voter suppression In addition, we answer the following listener questions: How is creative expression related to well-being? How does one move forward post-breakup? If there is a through-line of sobriety, diet, and endurance, what is the universal truth that threads them together? And my thoughts on Joe Rogan moving from LA to Texas, and the mass exodus of digital workers in this age of work from home.  Thank you to Camille from Illinois, Gabriel from Puerto Rico, Josh from North Carolina, and John for your questions. If you want your query discussed, drop it on our Facebook Page, or better yet leave a voicemail at [phone].   This is one of my increasingly rare audio-only podcasts — you can find it streaming wild and free on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Enjoy! Peace + Plants, Rich

The Rich Roll Podcast. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care, especially because, unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices. It's a real problem. at recovery.com who created an online support portal designed to guide, to support, and empower you to find the ideal level of care tailored to your personal needs. They've partnered with the best global behavioral health providers to cover the full spectrum of behavioral health disorders, including substance use disorders, depression, anxiety, eating disorders, gambling addictions, and more.

Navigating their site is simple. Search by insurance coverage, location, treatment type, you name it. Plus, you can read reviews from former patients to help you decide. Whether you're a busy exec, a parent of a struggling teen, or battling addiction yourself, I feel you. I empathize with you. I really do. And they have treatment options for you. Life in recovery is wonderful,

and recovery.com is your partner in starting that journey. When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life.

And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care, especially because unfortunately,

not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices. It's a real problem. A problem I'm now happy and proud to share has been solved by the people at recovery.com, who created an online support portal designed to guide, to support, and empower you to find the ideal level of care tailored to your personal needs. They've partnered with the best global behavioral health providers to cover the full spectrum of behavioral health disorders, including substance use disorders, depression, anxiety, eating disorders, gambling addictions, and more. Navigating their site is simple. Search by insurance coverage, location, treatment type, you name it. Plus, you can read reviews from former patients to help you decide. Whether you're a busy exec, a parent of a struggling teen, or battling addiction yourself,

I feel you. I empathize with you. I really do. And they have treatment options for you. empathize with you. I really do. And they have treatment options for you. Life in recovery is wonderful. And recovery.com is your partner in starting that journey. When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com. All right, me and my hype man, Adam Skolnick, are back. Today, we talk about a ton of stuff, Beirut, what is happening with the post office, a challenge that we offer to rid our lives of single-use plastics and many, many other subjects, including listener questions on journaling and creativity, navigating a breakup, tools for self-discovery, and the growing trend of city center exodus.

So strap in, because it's time to take Roll Call. Hey, everybody, we're back. Welcome to another to take Roll Call. Hey, everybody, we're back. Welcome to another edition of Roll On. I kind of feel like we should call this Roll Call. Roll Call? Yeah, I don't know. Maybe we need to rebrand it.

I'm not sure. Either way, I'm here with my hype man, Adam Skolnick, journalist, author, swimrun aficionado, environmentalist, activist. activist hey good to be here roll call wait we've had this is like the sixth one so should we just rename it every six give it a new name for every single episode every six pack i don't know let us know what you guys think uh quick overview on the format uh which is a little bit different than my typical long-form interviews. We generally touch on a big story. We have a few thoughts on a couple things today.

We share a teachable moment. We do a little show and tell, and we do listener questions. Did I miss anything? You missed the part where we got evicted from the usual studio because of a construction crew. And it's the part where we got evicted from the usual studio because of a construction crew. So today we are in the third iteration of our makeshift studio adventure. We're on this like tour of trying to find a different place to record the podcast for seemingly every episode. So just to backtrack, when COVID started, we decided the responsible thing was to move the podcast out of my home, which is where I've done it for many, many years. And we found this amazing space, this beautiful, huge cavernous studio location that was ideal for not just audio recording, but for video.

We had this beautiful long table and we created this set. That space became unavailable. So we moved to a smaller room and tried to recreate the same look and feel. And today we showed up in that location to discover that there was a construction crew camped out front, unloading a gigantic industrial drill out front

and preparing to drill literally feet away from the microphones. And we realized, okay, this is not going to be a tenable recording situation. So at the last minute, we scrambled, found a little room to record. I'm on a bit of a tight timeline today. So we were unable to get the video equipment up and running. So today is audio only. And I should also point out, I don't know if I've mentioned this on the podcast yet, but we are closing on a permanent studio space, a headquarters for the show for the long-term. And that's very exciting. Worldwide headquarters. It's amazing. The worldwide RRP headquarters is underway. And that means more of what you love.

Yeah. It'll probably be Thanksgiving by the time we're fully in, but we've closed on the space. It's a raw, brand new 2000 square foot, I think, warehouse space. So we're gonna build a set. We're gonna build offices. It's gonna be like the ultimate hang

and I'm super excited about it. We're also gonna document it on video. I got my man Davey here and we're gonna do a little series on the construction of that and the intention behind it, which I'm pretty excited about as well. So stay tuned for more on that. That's gonna be awesome. The word on the street, Adam,

is that you've decided to tackle the zone two aerobic training. How's that going? Oh my God. We should call this section fitness corner or something like that. Fitness in the gray zone. Fitness check-in after our conversation the other week. Yes, thank you for that by the way.

I went out as soon as we had that conversation, I ordered a Garmin Tri Chesty, which I've named Chester. Chester the heart rate strap. Chester the heart rate flogger. And so I wear that now. And right away, I went out with it. And I did a benchmark run in the desert.

This is right before the heat wave. To try to set your zones. Set the zones. Well, I read that math stuff, right? Math tone, yeah. Yeah, that you sent over. And then you also sent the warning, prepare to be humbled.

And so straight away, like my first runs were like, as you said, 10 and a half minute mile kind of pace keeps me in that 132. So according to math, cause I haven't done the lactate training, 132 based on my age is my target. Right, which is not a highly accurate number, I should point out.

Yeah, because you gave yourself a range, right? Yeah, it's not a black or white thing. It's a range, it's a spectrum. And the DIY method of trying to establish your zones based on your age is an okay way of doing it. But ideally you wanna get into a proper lactate test where they're basically putting you on a treadmill or putting you on a stationary bike and ramping up the speed or the watts and then pricking your

finger for blood at intervals as you notch up the intensity. And that way they can determine with great specificity what exactly your zones are. Yeah. And I will do that as soon as the pandemic is over. Right. Whenever that may be. In the meantime. So I figured based on what you had said, you said your range is like 130 to 143. So I gave myself a range. Basically, I'm trying to stay in the green zone on Garmin,

which translates to zone two on Strava and everything else. So what I found is it's not hard to run in that zone. It's not supposed to be. Right. And so I'm like, well, I to run in that zone. Like it's- It's not supposed to be. Right. And so I'm like, well, I can run at that zone kind of forever. Like that's the good part. But the bad part is once I left the desert

and came back to my normal swim run terrain, I'm just seeing everybody, everybody pass me. And it's slower than 10 and a half minutes a mile. It's like, in some cases, it's 11 and a half minutes a mile. It's so slow. It's hard for me to run at that pace. And so, um, and so I'm, I'm kind of giving myself a little bit of, of slack, but yesterday I did a seven and a half mile swim run workout, uh, which typically takes me maybe an hour and a half, I guess. And it took me almost like over two hours and I just felt a little bit demoralized. I felt like, you know. And it took me almost like over two hours. And I just felt a

little bit demoralized. I felt like, you know, but it's only been a couple of weeks. So I'm just going to stick with it. I have talked to Teddy and Ted McDonald and a couple other people. And it sounds like to really get better and to, so that your zone two becomes an eight and a half minute mile instead of a 10 and a half minute mile or slower, that you also have to work in some tempo runs like you were saying and some intervals. Is that what you'd say? Yeah, but that's less important

than just persistently training in that zone two. Really? You should like once or twice a week have a speed or tempo workout, but you don't need to be doing those that often. The focus, the gravamen of the training needs to be in that zone two space. And it is humbling, but that's, again,

that's the discipline, that's the work. It's checking the ego and staying consistent with it. And the other thing I would add to that is what you will find when you're not well-trained in your aerobic zone, the minute you step it up and go to a tempo pace, your heart rate will spike drastically. And then when you drop back down into a zone two cadence, it will take a long time for your heart rate

to come back down. And the more fit you are, the more aerobically fit, I mean, by virtue of training in that zone two space, the more quickly your heart rate will come back down. Like you'll be able to normalize. So you'll be able to like ramp it up, like, okay, I'll do an interval, a 60 second tempo run, and then bring it back to zone two, and your heart rate will come right back down.

Wow. And that's a great indicator of how fit you are. If when you're trying to come back down, you're super winded and it's taking a long time for you to normalize once again, that's good information that you have work to do. So really it's just, cause that's what I came home yesterday

finding it so hard to believe. Like, so if I just keep doing, cause what I did yesterday was what I normally do, three mile run plus, mile swim plus, three mile run plus kind of thing. And that's seven and a half miles it tends to be. And so I'm thinking like, so if I just keep doing that zone two,

pretty soon those three mile runs are gonna get fast, like just from that. Yeah, but you have to be extremely patient. This is a long game. Like six months? This is a long game. This is not the menu for the time crunched athlete. This is the menu for long-term success, like years, right?

But if you invest six, nine months persistently training this way, you're gonna see tremendous dividends. I'm excited because running has always been really hard for me. It's always been, and that's made it less fun. Like it's always been suffering. Like even if I'm running nine and a half minute miles,

it never feels easy. And running this way does feel easy, which I like. And if I can get faster than I was before and it feels easy, like that's a, to me, that's a huge carrot. I love that. There was quite a bit of feedback from the last time that we talked about this.

And a lot of people were saying, oh, I'm trying this for the first time. And what's great about it is that it's fun because you're not exhausting yourself. If you finish a zone two run and you feel super tired or spent, you didn't do it right. You're not supposed to be spent at the end of these.

And that is counter-programming because we feel like when we train or we work out, we should give it our best. And then when it's all said and done, we can be like, oh man, I really laid it all out there. This is the opposite of that. And again, that's the discipline. It's a different kind of discipline.

It's a withholding discipline. But it's still, you still burn a number of calories. It's not like the calorie counts that bad. I'm just worried that someone's going to call, like I was getting cheered on by people because I was running so slow. They probably thought that like something was wrong with me. And I just don't want anyone to call the paramedics on me. Like I've had people call lifeguards and fire people on me, like in Hawaii, when they saw me way out swimming and they're like, he doesn't seem like he's going fast enough to mean to be out there. You know, like they thought they were saving my life. And then I'd come in, I'd swim in and I hear sirens.

I'm like, God, I wonder what happened to somebody. I hope they're okay. And then I get to the beach and the fireman's like, wait a second, were you way out there? And I'm like, And the fireman's like, wait a second, were you way out there? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, that was me. And he goes, you're okay? And I'm like, yeah. Yeah, someone called search and rescue on me. Yeah, they're just not used to seeing people that far out. I went and swam in Malibu the other day and I went way past out the break.

And it occurs to me, I'm like, they're probably watching me worried. you know, like I'm fine, but you know, that's their job. Yeah, no, it's fine. I'm like, I just don't want to get charged for search and rescue if I didn't need it. And just to put it into perspective, when I was training for my first Ultraman in 2008, and I was trying to acclimate to this program and fighting it all the way, thinking this is a terrible idea. Like, how am I ever going to finish this crazy, thinking this is a terrible idea. Like how am I ever gonna finish this crazy race if this is the protocol? And I remember getting passed by like pregnant women pushing their babies and stuff.

Pushing future baby and real baby. I'm training for this ultra endurance race and I can't even keep pace with, you know. So just, you know, invest in it, believe in it, trust in it. I do. I trust you. And the cool part is I've been getting quicker anyway doing this gray zone thing. And, you know, for me, though, like running a 10K at 6.5 miles an hour pace takes a lot of energy.

Like I can't imagine doing that for two, three hours. I can't imagine doing that for two, three hours, but I can imagine doing this green zone, like zone two running at five and a half miles an hour for two or three hours. Like I can see myself doing that. And you'll be able to do that. The thing that you'll then have to bear in mind is this understanding that your heart and your lungs

will develop more rapidly than the ligaments and the tendons in your joints, in your legs. And so there'll be this inclination, than the ligaments and the tendons in your joints, in your legs. And so there'll be this inclination, this desire to ramp up your volume quickly because you feel so good and you do have that sense like, oh, I could do this all day. And you're like, it's Saturday, I am gonna go all day. But the problem is it takes time

for the muscles in your legs and the joints and the tendons and the ligaments to acclimate to that load. And you have to be very careful. And this is a big reason why a lot of people get injured because they allow themselves to ramp up that volume too quickly. So again, it's a matter of like building the volume

very, very slowly, even when you wanna go harder and further holding back, putting in a bigger week, putting in another bigger week, then having a rest week where you really dial it back and then notching it up very, very gradually. And for a long time, it feels like you're not doing anything. And you're like, when am I gonna train?

Right? Right. But the curve is like asymptotic, like it feels flat for a very long time. And then when you get to a certain level of fitness and acclimation, then you can dial up the volume and that's where you really start to realize the benefits of this and see the gains. I love it. Did you just call me asymptotic? I called you, yes. That's your new- I like that word. That's your new- That's a word I've never heard before.

Nickname for the podcast. That's your new- That's a word I've never heard before. Nickname for the podcast. I will say that I've gone in the other direction now for a little more counter-programming. Yeah. They say in the sacred, secret halls of recovery that you can't transmit something you haven't got. And part of the mentorship relationship that you have in that community

is that you gotta walk the walk. Like you can't tell people or advise people to do a certain thing if you're not doing it yourself. And part of that dynamic when you're the person in the mentorship role is that it holds you accountable. Like it forces you to be honest and look at yourself in the mirror in a deeper way. And so after I delivered that monologue about all this fitness stuff the other week, I thought, am I doing this myself? For the most part, I am, but I thought, you know, I could do better. Like saying that publicly is holding myself to a higher level of accountability. And I've made this decision to do something that I haven't done for a very long time,

for years and years and years, for the last decade, I would say that my training has been 90% zone two aerobic with like 10% speed and strength. And I've decided because I'm sort of in a rut with all of this and I'm having some back issues that I've talked about. And because I've been just repeatedly like running and running and putting in all these miles for so long that I need to do something different for my long-term functional strength. So I'm flipping the equation

completely and I'm doing 90% strength and 10% aerobic, which is something I haven't done since I think I was like 40. So it's been like 13 years. So just strength meaning high heart rate? Everything from, well, mostly right now, and I only started this two weeks ago, but mostly functional strength and weight training. Okay, so back in the gym. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like just trying to get my body strong, like building it up, like this is my foundational work to take a body that is very efficient and acclimated to long distance pursuits and running and trail running and things like that and to get really, really strong. Oh, wow. So it's gonna be a gun show come November.

It's gonna be like, you're gonna have that Goggins body. Yeah, I'm kind of doing a little bit more, well, I mean, with less of the endurance stuff right now. Like I'm really gonna back off the running and the cycling. I'm still gonna put in some, you know, runs and some bikes and some swims, but the focus is really gonna be on not bulking up, but just getting really solid and strong

because I wanna heal my back. As I get older, you can carry that endurance machine forward. You always have that, and I can always tap back into that. But what you lose is the strength, and I don't want to lose that strength. And I've noticed that I have lost a lot of that, and I want to build that back. And on top of that, I also want to show that a 53- 53 year old guy who's been vegan for 13 years can still pack on some heat in the upper body department. Interesting. So that's kind of what I'm- So the home gym is all decked out

or is that gonna be over in the studio? I have a little bit of home gym stuff and then there's a gym near my house that is open for limited times with social distancing. So I started to explore that. Like if, you know, I'm using that safely for limited amounts of time throughout the week. So we'll see how that goes.

That's exciting. So the goal is like when the book comes out in November, it's gonna just be a massive gun show. You're just gonna, are you gonna sign your own biceps for people? No. See, now I'm on the hook, right? I gotta follow through now.

Now you've declared it. No, but I think that's cool. I think that speaks to beginner's mind and the power of just trying something new and switching things up like you're doing with this. Yeah, I don't wanna be stale. Like I wanna do something different and keep this whole like journey dynamic.

I love it. All right. So what's the big story? Well, the big story is Beirut. It is. So the synopsis, as we all know, we've all seen the footage, a huge cache of ammonium nitrate, a chemical used in fertilizer, but also explosives, including the Oklahoma City Federal Building attack, was detonated at the port. And it was many, many times bigger than what was used in that attack in Oklahoma City. It killed 150 people plus, injured 6,000, left hundreds of thousands of people homeless. Many are still missing. Critical infrastructure

like hospitals in the country's main port were destroyed. Nearly half the city was damaged. port were destroyed. Nearly half the city was damaged. And that was kind of like the last straw politically and socially for what's been happening in Lebanon and Beirut. Before the coronavirus pandemic, even the economy was shrinking in Lebanon, the currency crashed because the banks there were kind of caught out in a Ponzi scheme like interest game where they would, the way they were getting foreign investment into the country was promising a high interest rate. And so foreign investment was coming in, but in order to pay that high interest rate, they had to keep getting more investors. And so then investors started shining. Like a macro Bernie Madoff situation. Like a macro Madoff. On a national level.

Exactly, on a national level. And sometime late last year, the foreign investment stopped coming because people sniffed it out. And they're like, wait, we can't do that. This isn't going to work. And then at that point, it became hard to get your own money out of the bank if you're Lebanese. And the currency crashed. And so people lost half their network or more kind of overnight in the blink of an eye. And so then this happened. Right. So now you have to try to repair stuff. And there's a pandemic. And there's a pandemic. And so what's going to happen? How much is steel and glass going to cost? Can you get your own money out of the bank? So this

is kind of the totality of what's been happening in Beirut, which is a lot. I mean, can you imagine if all of a sudden, on top of everything we've been dealing with in the United States, if all of a sudden you couldn't get your money out of your bank. And layer that on top of just a history of embattlement that this historic place has weathered over the millennia. It seems to always be this vortex of conflict and strife. And beauty and like, and it's incredible, you know, cultural kind of oasis.

Yeah. So yeah, and so, and what have the people in Beirut been doing since then? There's been protests, sure, but there are also the armies of volunteers are the people cleaning up that city. Business people have been the ones investing in crews to help clean up. There's first aid

stations and food stations being set up entirely by volunteers, entirely by the citizenry. And the government has quit and there's no real public response to this. It's all been kind of private groups organized, but in a community level. This is what happens when you have no government to help you. You have no agencies to help you. And you love Beirut. Yeah, I mean, on a personal level, it's absolutely heartbreaking. I mean, we all saw the videos of the explosion going off.

I've never seen anything like that. I mean, it was just so horrific. I can't imagine. That shockwave was just nuts. There was one video that was taken from somebody sitting at an outdoor cafe that I've been to. And the whole thing gets blown over. I mean, I've been to Beirut twice and I love that city.

And I've gotten to know quite a few people there who I consider to be my friends. The first time I went for a speaking gig, it was many years ago, it was probably 2013, maybe, maybe 2014. And I got to meet with a bunch of Beirut business leaders and I gave a talk and they like winded and dined me and introduced me to all these people and took me all over the place and gave me a tour. And they just were so incredibly welcoming. One of the people I met on that first trip was a legendary endurance athlete called Maxime Chaya, who's kind of like their national, you know,

adventure athlete, sports hero. He's just this amazingly dynamic, accomplished dude. He's climbed Everest. I think he did the seven summits. Okay. He's done all kinds of, he did the seven summits. Okay. He's done all kinds of, he's like the Ironman athlete in Beirut. Right.

Because this is not something that a lot of people are doing. No. And I think he was even like the Cannondale bicycle rep. Okay. Like he was the one responsible for getting people on bikes in Beirut and all kinds of amazing things

that this guy has done over the course of his life. And he took me to his home, which is outside Beirut in the hills, maybe like 45 minutes outside of town. And we went cycling through the countryside and through this mountainous range. It was just Cyprus, groves. It was just so incredibly beautiful.

What year was that? I think it must've been 2014, 2013, I can't remember. And one of the people that I met also on that trip was a woman called May Al Khalil, and she founded the Beirut Marathon. She's got this incredible backstory that she tells in a Ted Talk. I made a video about that experience.

It's on my YouTube channel, and also I shared it on Instagram recently. Yeah, I saw that. She was an avid runner. This is a place in the world where there's not like running isn't part of the culture necessarily, but there is a small running culture there. She was part of that.

She got hit by a car in a near fatal accident, was told she would never run again, but she wanted to give this gift of running to her people. And she created this marathon that quickly became the biggest marathon in the Middle East. And she invited me to come and participate. So in 2015, I went back in November to participate

in that marathon. And it was a life changing experience for me to run in a part of the world that's so foreign to our Western lens. Yeah. And what I experienced was people from all parts of the world and all parts of the Middle East, people that typically are at odds with each other

for reasons political and religious, convening collectively for this shared celebration of peace where everybody just runs. And I was very moved by the experience, like women running in burqas and women coming from, you know, like Saudi Arabia, where it's not okay for women to run, coming and running.

And seeing that really gave me this beautiful sense of the power of humanity and shared experiences. Well, I mean, Beirut being where it is, it's like it was occupied by the Romans and maybe even some people say the Egyptians before that. Well, there's Roman ruins all across the city, like the remnants of these Roman baths and the foundations of these Roman buildings.

And it's layered like the rings of a tree. Like it just depends on how far down you wanna dig. And you just tap into culture after culture after culture. There's mosques, there's cathedrals. It's this intersection of all these different cultures. And I was told when I was there, like if you wanna build a building, like everything is a historic site.

So it's like, well, if you build here, you're building on top of this. They have to do this calculus of like, yeah So it's like, well, if you build here, you're building on top of this. They have to do this calculus of like, yeah, it's a Roman ruin, but like there's no place where you're not gonna be affecting some aspect of the past. The Middle East is like that. It's just so old and there's so much history there.

It's like, yeah, so the Romans, and then it was the Ottoman Empire for centuries. And then after World War I, I believe it was a French protectorate and then independence in 1943. And since then it's the Ottoman Empire for centuries. And then after World War I, I believe it was a French protectorate. And then independence in 1943. And since then, it's been fraught. There's Palestinian refugees there. The Syrians and Israelis were kind of fighting over territory.

And then there was a civil war in the 70s. Civil war in the mid-70s. Yeah. And Hezbollah, which is an organization that's funded by Iran, has an occupied part of the city that kind of belongs to them, kind of their own thing. And they squared off with the government not too long ago. So it's this- It's complicated.

It's complicated. And there's Christianity as well. It's not just a Muslim city. It's really multicultural and Armenian presence there as well. It's incredibly beautiful also. We've all heard the adage that it is or it was the Paris of the Middle East.

I mean, it's certainly true. And they have this beautiful esplanade along the water where I would go running every day and jump into the sea. And it's quite spectacular, but it's also seen better days. Like when I was there the first time, there was something going on with the government where the trash wasn't getting picked up. I mean, it's just a shit show, you know,

literally from a civic perspective. And I had conversations with some of these business people, like, you know, these are very sophisticated, well-to-do people. And I said, you know, have you ever thought about leaving? Like you could go be a banker in New York City or something like that, but they just love Beirut and they believe in Lebanon and they're there for the sake of, you know, basically trying to improve this impossible situation that they're in. I have a colleague from a lonely planet who has been basing there and, um, I checked in with him afterwards and how he's doing. And, and he's like, you know, one of the things he said was, we don't have air conditioning right now,

which I guess doesn't matter because we don't have windows. And he's still living in the place without windows. Because some people just don't have the money or the places to go. So, you know, some buildings have been condemned, but if your building hasn't been condemned and you have no windows,

you're kind of like at the mercy of when those get replaced. The blast radius of this thing was so extraordinary too, because I was watching videos of journalists on the ground in neighborhoods that I know that are quite distant from where the bomb went off. And I couldn't believe the devastation, like literally, you know, miles away from where it exploded. It's just, it's hard to wrap your head around it. Well, you were there. And then when you ran the marathon, you left in like two nights later, there was like an actual terrorist. Right. And I tell that story in that video that I made,

but basically the marathon was November 8th. I left on the 10th and on the 12th, I left on the 10th and on the 12th, ISIS bombed one of the Hezbollah neighborhoods called Bourj el-Barajne. I don't know how to pronounce that, but it's right next to the airport. And I'd driven through that area and I'd walked neighborhoods quite close to that, like the day before I left.

And I just remember leaving Lebanon with such a full heart for its people and its history and such a deep appreciation and a sense of empathy. And then to see that happen was so shocking and devastating. It was the number one news story in the world for a day, but the following day was the Paris bombings, which were admittedly much more severe

in terms of death toll and injuries. The one where they're not the Charlie Hebdo, the one that were all over the city. Yeah, exactly, exactly. That was literally a day later. And that erased Beirut from the news cycle completely. And a lot of people I think have now forgotten that Beirut had been bombed the day before because all the focus went to Paris.

And I think part of that is this sense that, oh, it's the Middle East, like bad shit just happens there. And I think we're seeing a little bit of that now because we're what, 10 days or so since the blast in Beirut. And I haven't seen very much in the news about what's happening there.

You might not see anything unless something cataclysmic happens. You might not, something else. Right. Well, the news cycle is advancing so quickly now that it's kind of part of our news culture, I suppose, that we just move on so quickly. That's part of it.

Part of it, I think, is kind of this long held kind of American naval gazing. Like here in the United States, we don't really – there are always reporters out in the world reporting on stuff from all over the world. But we don't always get that oxygen. It doesn't really flow there unless something huge happens. That's part of it. Part of it is this idea of American exceptionalism, like what happens here is the most important. So it kind of blots out some of this other major stories. So that means that it's onto us to, if you care about the world, you know, it's not just what happens here

that matters. It's what happens elsewhere that matters too. And so just to keep that in mind and seek out those stories. I mean, we really have to, I know you, you make a point of seeking out stories, not just from here, but from everywhere. Yeah. I mean, I would have to, I know you make a point of seeking out stories, not just from here, but from everywhere. Yeah, I mean, I would add to that, that the first time that I went there, they put me up in this hotel called the Phoenician, the Phoenicia, which is this incredibly lavish hotel

that was built during that Paris of the Middle East era. And it's like, this is where Frank Sinatra stayed. And this is when it was like really hip to like go to Beirut and they had this incredible nightlife and all this sort of thing. Then the civil, it was built, I don't know when it was built, probably in the early seventies.

And right behind it is the Holiday Inn, which is a huge tower that was built in 1974 and was intended during its construction and its first year of operation to be like the, I mean, when we think of Holiday Inn, we think of kind of low rent hotels, but this was meant to be like state-of-the-art. Like this is where everyone's gonna stay. It's gonna be unbelievable.

In 75, when the Civil War began, that hotel became a war zone and just got shellacked. And it was sort of a symbolic goal in this strife, like who could control this landmark. Yeah. And today it stands as this gutted, bullet-riddled historical edifice that is like almost like a symbol,

like a reminder of what had happened there. Like they could have just torn it down or rebuilt it, but it stands there just like it looked probably in 1975 after it just got devastated. And it's still a military zone that's controlled by the Lebanese army. So when you go and you look at the top, you'll see dudes, you dudes, like there's military vehicles

and you could see them on some of the floors. And then on the roof, you'll see guys patrolling with rifles. And it's just a reminder that this is an unstable region, I guess, so to speak. And when you tour the city, you'll see buildings all over the place that are riddled with bullets.

Or here's a little memorial where a car bomb went off and so-and-so died. And there's this palpable sense that anything can happen at any time. And when you come home, it gives you a greater appreciation for government stability on some level, although we're seeing a level of instability now

that I think is leading us to question that. But I think the overarching theme that I was trying to convey in that video and what that experience taught me and my other experiences, I've been all over the Middle East. I've been to multiple cities in Saudi Arabia. I've been to Bahrain.

I've been to some pretty amazing places is that travel breeds empathy. And to the extent that when this pandemic lifts, if you're able to travel and experience other cultures, I can't stress enough how important that is in terms of how you form your worldview and how you think about your participation as a global citizen on the planet.

Absolutely. And that's partly why I pay attention to news from other parts of the world is because of I travel and what I did before the pandemic. You did. Yeah. I would like to travel again.

The asymptotic planet. Exactly. I think we should round it out. There was a video that you shared with me about Dr. Isra Sabiani, a chronologist based in Detroit, who's Lebanese, who was out there to get married, right? You're going to post that. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure a lot of people saw this video. It went viral. The New York Times covered it as did many other publications, but it was a video of this beautiful woman in her

bridal gown being videoed by a wedding videographer with a gimbal, it's all super pro and gorgeous. And in the middle of the shot, the explosion occurs and you see the chaos erupt. And in the wake of that, everyone was like, who is this woman, right? And it turns out that she's a Lebanese doctor who is doing her residency in Detroit and endocrinology

and had returned to Beirut to get married. And I'd read that after that clip ended, she went and started trying to help people in her bridal gown, like trying to save people, like being a doctor in the midst of like the calamity, which I think is really extraordinary. And you're gonna post that Bloomberg video, which I think is excellent too, that one week.

Oh, there's a Bloomberg put out a video one week later. That's the only kind of postscript that I've seen. Like, okay, what's going on now? Like it's a week later, there's what are the 300,000 people that are homeless now? All these buildings are uninhabitable. All the high rises, yeah. Right, so anyway.

So there's things you can do. There are charities that, and we're gonna post that, right, in the show notes, places to give money to help in terms of feeding people and healthcare and whatever else contribute to the rebuilding. There are some reputable charities that we're gonna post too. Sounds good. You can pitch in.

Cool, let's take a quick break. We're gonna take too. Sounds good. You can pitch in. Cool. Let's take a quick break. We're gonna take care of a little housekeeping and we'll be right back with more roll on slash roll call. Roll call. And we're back. Adam, what is going on with the post office? service has been heavy-handed in his attempts, he claims, to make it run more efficiently. But those adjustments that he has been trying to make include the removal of mail sorting machines. At least 19 have been removed from various depots. Each machine can process 35,000 pieces of mail per hour. So 19 is a big reduction. And he's slated to have 671 more taken out. This was reported widely over the last few days.

He's also moved to end overtime pay, which is very critical because that's how carriers cover for one another when they are sick, especially now that's a big deal. So if overtime goes away, that means people will not get their mail, which is also happening right now. So these moves kind of underscore this rising concern across the country of the integrity of the November election. How is the post office going to be able to handle 80 million ballots cast by Americans? It could be more than that, could be less, but that's kind of the estimation. But then there's also problems

that have nothing to do with DeJoy, which is that mail carriers aren't showing up for work, maybe because of the pandemic, either they're scared of it or they could be sick. I talked to my own postal carrier. Admittedly, that's just anecdotal evidence. But what he was saying is in Santa Monica, 21 carriers didn't show up on Saturday. And when those carriers don't show up, residents don't receive their mail. Some people haven't received their mail for a week at a time. Wow. And he's taking on, he's working 60 hours a week. He's taking on overtime. If overtime goes away, he won't work 60 hours a week.

So he's not going to cover for it. So this is a problem given the election is happening. And it's a problem in general, like functional societies have impartial postal services that are not driven by profit. It's so crazy that the post office is being politicized in this way. It's like, you don't even, you just take it so for granted. You never think twice about whether your mail's going to come. Until now, right? So apparently the post office needs $25 billion. This is according to Trump, to be adequately funded through not just the election, but through the holidays. Pelosi just called the House of Representatives back into session to deal with this. So they're definitely going to do that? Yeah, that's happening. There's

a vote supposedly scheduled for Saturday to fund the post office. Of course, then it has to be also passed by the Senate and signed by the president. On Sunday, Mark Meadows, the White House chief of staff, did express openness to funding the post office through the election. express openness to funding the post office through the election. So we'll see about that. But yeah, I mean, you know, is this a power grab? It certainly smells that way. You know, first of all, how a postmaster general is a partisan employee is crazy. But what's happening there does seem to be in line with what happened at the EPA, whereas a Republican president is in power and he's appointing people who undermine that agency that they're supposed to be overseeing

and implementing policy. So it's troubling for those of us who care about the environment, the EPA, or just having a post office. But what do you think about all of this? Well, I think it certainly smells of an authoritarian weaponization of what should be and is a public utility for a partisan gain.

And whether or not that is the case, it will function to produce that kind of result unless it's resolved. And I think I've sort of watched how Twitter has exploded over this and the outrage and all of that. And it goes back to what can we control? Like we can talk about this and be outraged and voice our concerns on social media and all of that. But

fundamentally, all we can do is control our own behaviors. What is our responsibility? Well, regardless of your political perspective, we all need to vote, right? So let's take care of that in advance. The election is in November. You can vote by mail now. Take care of it now. Don't wait until there's some kind of crazy crunch. Yeah, I haven't, I don't think I've got my ballot yet, but one solution. I just got ours. Did you just get yours? Yeah, yeah, yeah, we just did. So I think that you can vote now and that that will ease the mind, because there is this fear that even if you postmark before the election, and if they don't get it by a certain time, it won't get counted. I also, I'm a big proponent of early voting. You know, there's less polling places for early voting, but there's a number of them, at least in California, that starts 29 days before the election.

And you can go in, and it's very quick. You don't wait in line. Nobody's there really. And you go in with your kind of sample ballot prepared so it doesn't take that long. And you can wear a mask and it can be safe and you can wash your hands afterwards. And that's available to everybody in 39 states.

There is some sort of early voting. Sometimes it's two weeks. Sometimes it's 10 days. Sometimes it's a month like in California. Sometimes it's the Thursday before the election, but it's still an opportunity to do it in a way that you don't even have to worry about the mail. So there's things you can do. I think also having conversations about this with people, you could call the White House and urge them to fund the post office. This should not be a partisan issue. You know, having a postal service that functions is a positive thing for people.

Yeah, of course. Right. Do we have a verdict on whether there's going to be poll stations open on election day? Or is that still being debated right now? No, I mean, so far, election days have happened. You know, there's been primaries held everywhere. And we're going to get into a little bit more a little later in the win of the week about kind of polling stations and opportunities to add to what's already going to be administered by election commissions. But, yes, the problem with some of the primaries has been less polling stations than usual, but not no polling stations. So that's something worth watching.

You know, like the amount of polling stations, that's something worth watching. You know, like the amount of polling stations, that's something worth watching. So that's why early voting and voting by mail very early are two solutions you can control to make sure your vote gets counted. And the fact that we're even having this conversation is fucking mental. I know. What is the fraud vulnerability with mail-in voting? You know, it's a good question. I don't think there's been any proof that there's fraud. I guess one idea, if you have two addresses, you could potentially be registered in two places and vote twice, I guess. But I don't think that that has held water because if those get discovered, then two votes don't count. So I don't think there's been any proof. There's certainly no irrefutable proof that more mail-in voting equates with more voter fraud. Voter fraud is not a big issue in the United States of America. We're led to believe that it is.

You know what the biggest voter fraud in the history of the United States has always been is voter suppression. That's the voter fraud. The electoral college allows, minimizes states like California's impact on the election as well. But the biggest voter fraud has been voter suppression

in Florida. And gerrymandering. And gerrymandering, yeah. But for a presidential election, gerrymandering doesn't matter. But in Florida, gerrymandering and gerrymandering. Yeah. But for a presidential election, gerrymandering doesn't matter. But in Florida, you know, there's been this, some states have long had laws on the books permitting ex-felons from voting. Florida's state government changed that. I think it was either, no, there was a referendum and they basically allowed felons to vote for the first time. And then the state government enacted a new law basically saying, yeah, they can vote as long as they pay all their fines, that they had unpaid fines, which is kind of like this poll tax, which used to be a trick used to eliminate poor people and black people from being able to vote, mostly black people.

So there is a movement afoot. We'll talk about in the win of the week about how to deal with that. So there is a movement afoot. We'll talk about in the win of the week about how to deal with that. So there's solutions. The solutions are vote by mail, vote early, and there's petitions. Save the U.S. Postal Service petition asking for the removal of Louis LaJoy and the full funding of the post November, is that in the event that a significant portion of voting is done via mail, that that's going to delay the result tabulation. And it just creates this cloud of uncertainty that will make it easier for somebody to say there's something not right with this or to stay in office and not leave. Like short of a landslide in either direction, my concern is the instability of the government in terms of having a clear like directive for who is gonna be the next president.

Like if Trump loses, but he loses by a margin, is the guy gonna leave? Is this gonna be a thing that we're going to have to deal with? I mean, he's already seeding this idea that it's a fraudulent landscape, which creates the foundation for an argument that something is amiss. I agree. It's problematic. Why can't we figure out how to have safe encrypted online voting? We trust our money online. Our phones have facial recognition. There are encryption experts working on voting. It tends to be extremely complicated. I think Travis County, Texas was looking at trying to include encrypted voting. That's different than the voting machines that we have, which are not connected to the internet, except when they're being programmed and then they are connected to the internet.

I think what we're seeing with hacking, if the machines themselves are connected to the internet, they are vulnerable. So they shouldn't be connected to the internet. They can be networked and encrypted. And there are some very smart people looking at that. But it has to be kind of a Faraday box situation where it's not online. Exactly. So if it's not online, then you still have to go kind of a Faraday box situation where it's not online. Exactly. If it's not online, then you still have to go to like a polling station. You still have to go to a polling station. Now, there are other countries- The last time I voted in the midterms, it was like a digital kiosk thing.

Right. So the digital kiosk, those are digital voting machines, but they are not connected to the internet except when they're programmed originally. And then when they're standing in the polling place, they are not supposed to be connected to the internet except when they're programmed originally. And then when they're standing in the polling place, they are not supposed to be connected to the internet. But encrypted voting, the same thing, they wouldn't necessarily be connected to the internet. But the idea is even if they were, they'd be unhackable because a vote creates a digital footprint

that is then encrypted in the way that it can only be unlocked in a very certain way. And even if you hack into it, you won't know what that vote can only be unlocked in a very certain way. And even if you hack into it, you won't know what that vote means because it'll have a digital code. And so you won't be able to tell what that vote means. So you couldn't necessarily monkey with the results. I feel like the word blockchain needs to be uttered here. I know nothing about blockchain other than that it means a distributed network where nobody can control it. But perhaps there's a solution in the blockchain that could resolve this kind of digital voting situation.

All right, let's move on. All right. So you posted something on Instagram that like was amazing this week. And it was all about kind of your journey in sobriety, but in a very specific way and what happened in Oregon in the rehab center. And I just thought it was really poignant. So I just wanted to find out what motivated you to do that and kind of where you're coming from with that. Well, I appreciate that, Adam. Thank you.

It feels like I told you to say that. I know, but you didn't though. I know. Yeah, I think the idea behind that post was really to just honor some of the people that have been teachers for me over the years. And we tend to think of mentors and teachers as these highly qualified, aspirational individuals. Like, oh, I want Gary Vee or Warren Buffett to be my investor mentor or David Goggins to be my fitness mentor. But the truth is, we're all surrounded by teachers all the time. Every human being has a story to tell that can be instructive

and helpful in your life. And I think I said something like the prophets walk among us. Like I said, I spent all this time with a bunch of hopeless you know, hopeless, you know, marginally criminal drunks and meth heads and crack heads and needle fiends and junkies. But I became very bonded to these people and I learned a lot. Where was this exactly? Or not exactly. Treatment center in Oregon and just, you know, being in the recovery community for, you know, many, many years at this point, you know, over 20 years, met a lot of people and people from all walks of life who collectively get together in a way that these people would ordinarily never meet, right?

And when you open yourself up and you're available to what they have to say and you're present, I think most people would be amazed at what you can learn from the people that are in your immediate environment if you just slow down and pay attention. And I think right now in this pandemic, we're being compelled to slow down. Like the fast pace of our life that we've acclimated ourselves towards has been interrupted. And with that means we're having fewer interpersonal interactions. The number of people that we're exposing ourselves to

every single day is far limited, is truncated, but there's also an opportunity for the experiences that we are having with those fewer people to be more meaningful. And to the extent that we can make ourselves more available to them, that we can be present and listen, I think that there's lots of wisdom to be mined from that.

Yeah, I mean, that's what stuck with me is like to be humble enough to know that like you don't have all the answers and that anybody can teach you something. Any interaction can teach you something, even if it's someone- Even if that interaction is, I don't wanna be like that

or I see where that person has made this mistake and what it's done to their life. And that's helpful to me. But there's also this, you can't be defensive. You have to be open, right? Like a defensive posture closes off all those possibilities, doesn't it? Sure.

But if somebody's sharing their experience, again, it goes back to this idea of breeding empathy, right? Like if you can connect with another human being and look for the similarities in their experience and how you can relate to them interpersonally, that brings you closer to that individual. It amplifies your own inherent ability to be empathetic, and I think that's very healing. And I think we need that right now. We're so divided and we're so acrimonious.

Everybody is on this razor's edge right now. There's so much tension in the air. It's being fueled by economic insecurity and the pandemic and this fear of getting sick and the vitriol on social media. And everybody's just waiting to snap. They're not listening. They're not present.

They're not experiencing other people for who they are. They're just waiting for their turn to reply. To the extent that we can let go of that and just remind ourselves to be present and available to another human being's experience, our own lives are benefited in the process of that. Love it. Cool. What are we doing now? Show and tell, although you can't see it. I'm wearing a hat that has the words net positiva on it. This is a hat made by a company called Bureo.

They are an environmental company founded by three surfers, Ben Neppers, Kevin Ahern, and Dave Stover. They met in Sydney, Australia. They had different jobs at the time, but were trying to figure out a way to channel their passion into the ocean because they're surfers and the environment in general and a way to do it in a business-oriented way, not as a nonprofit. And they ended up getting funded to start a fishing net recycling business in Chile. At the time, the sardine fisheries and in chile which tend to feed the salmon farming down there um the people that would go out and harvest the fish with their nets when

the nets got ripped up or it was time to get rid of them they would just dump them because there was no stay in the ocean they would just stay in the ocean ghost netting which is just like one of the most destructive ways of dealing and plus they can can break down and they're made out of nylon. So it's a plastic solution. All these fish get caught up in them too, right? Marine mammals. And then obviously contributing to the plastic problem. So these guys went down and they created recycling centers and incentivized the local fishermen to bring their nets back with them, dump them there. And little by little, they devised a way to turn those nets back into plastic nurdles,

which is the base element, little pellets, which are the base element for all plastic products. And so they take that plastic net, return it back into the base element, and then theoretically they can be turned into anything. So they've done that before. They came out with skateboards and Frisbees, and then they started working with Patagonia. And the brim in this hat is 100% made from these nets

from fisheries that were used in Chile and Argentina. All of the Patagonia hats, which is Patagonia's number one selling item, they all now have hat brims made out of the Boreo plastic. And a lot of their technical gear and waterproof gear going forward. It's going to be made from this kind of post-consumer plastic product, which kudos to Patagonia for that. Kudos for these guys to build a business model that actually works and is profitable. They have grown. They have Greg Swinton runs their marketing team who sent me this hat, which is the hat that they give to the fishermen. Oh, cool.

So these are like- Makes them more mindful when they're out there. Like if they're wearing that hat, they're going to be thinking about that. Yeah, because their product's called Net Plus, Net Positiva in Spanish. And so they're working with fisheries all across Chile now, in Argentina. They're looking to start working in Peru. They're really growing, really expanding. And the idea is it can be turned into any sort of high value plastic product.

And it's different. Some people, why can't we just recycle the plastic that isn't drifting in the ocean and turn it into something? Well, that's because that's such degraded material. It's not a high level material. You can't turn that into anything. We think they're like plastic bottles floating out there, but it's like a goopy gel, right? Yeah. You can make it into a bracelet or something like that. But the idea is to make that into a high-tech climbing, you know, apparel, you can't really do that. But you can with this stuff,

because it's a high level, high quality, post-consumer recycled product. So are they just taking the nets when the fishermen are ready to retire them? Or are they actually going out and retrieving no the nets that are already out there the fishermen now are completely educated and informed and they bring the nets back and they put them in into you know basically receiving centers which are then taken to warehouses that boreo has and they're boiled down into new plastic that's

cool yeah that's super cool and providing jobs in Chile. What's the website for that? I think it's Boreo.com, but I will make sure it's on the show notes. I'll put that in the show notes. Yeah. On a similar note on the issue of plastic, I had Darren O'Lean on the podcast recently, that episode hasn't gone up yet.

And we kind of concluded it with me asking him, like what's the most impactful thing that a person could do? Yeah. Something like that. And he was like, well, you gotta get off the single-use plastics, right? Like, of course, like that's something

that we all have control over. Like the water bottle emergency is just completely out of control. And to the extent that we can eradicate single-use plastic from our lives, like that's a very tangible, practical, doable thing that each and every citizen, individual can take control over in their lives. And I've been thinking about that ever since we talked about it, not that it's a new idea. I've thought about this in the past.

And I thought, you know what? I'm going to really take this to heart and try to do this. And I found myself at the store the other day, I just finished a workout, I needed some water. And I'm like, okay, I'm not buying water in a plastic bottle that's for sure. I ended up buying water in a glass bottle. And then I remembered, Julie told me to pick up some ice

because our ice maker is broken in our fridge. So I just grabbed the ice and I checked out and I was feeling all good about myself that I'd bought this glass bottle. And then I realized all this ice is wrapped in plastic. Like even when I thought I was paying attention, I realized that I was not paying attention at all. And so I've decided to embark upon

a 30-day single single use plastic moratorium to see if I can do it. And what I've realized is, you know, to that point, it's harder than you think. That's hard. Because it's so endemic to every consumer product that you come across. Even if you're buying something that is made out

of something else, there's still a plastic wrapper on it. Or if you buy something online and it gets delivered, it's there's plastic is everywhere. And it's more challenging than... It's not just... Let's start with no more plastic water bottles, but beyond that, it gets complicated really quickly. It does. And especially now in the pandemic, I do our food shopping at the farmer's market. I bring my own bags and... You're good. You're my role model. And try not to take the plastic. But during the pandemic, for the first time, even the farmer's market. I bring my own bags and- You're good. You're my role model. And try not to take the plastic. But during the pandemic, for the first time, even the farmer's market stuff was prepackaged and I was happy to take a plastic bag.

And we talked about this when I was originally on your podcast in 2016. I'm a Five Gyres ambassador working on marine plastic issues. And I care a lot about it because there's billions of plastic particles in the ocean. They tend to look like plankton to marine life. They get nibbled. It ends up toxifying our food chain. You get fishing line wrapped around the necks of turtles and sea lions. I mean, it could take an Arctic ice core and pull it out and it's got plastic in it. We are the plastic age. 300 million tons a year of new plastic is being turned out. it's got plastic in it. You know, like we are the plastic age, 300 million tons of a year of new plastic is being turned out.

There's new plastic plants being planned because, you know, oil prices are down and there's all this, you know, there's too much fuel and too much petrochemical now because of fracking. And so that's gonna go into these plastic plants. They're trying to up it to 600 million. So there is a corporate cycle at work

to keep single-use plastic in our lives, but you can minimize it. And when you do minimize it, there's all sorts of ramifications that are positive for you and for the world. So yes, I mean, it is something that you can get rid of very easily if you try. And that's really just as simple as,

I mean, I used to do the same thing. I'd buy plastic water bottle all the time. As soon as I realized what was happening, I just switched to carrying my own water with me. It's not hard to do. Right, and that's, again, that's a very obvious thing, but it's the nefarious little things that you're less aware of.

You can't fully get rid of it. I mean, you're gonna buy, especially if you're vegan, you buy tofu or tempeh. Everything is wrapped in this stuff. It's wrapped in plastic. But you can't really get around that 100% of the time. If you're doing food shopping, it's almost impossible. If you're buying tofu, there's really no option. You're going to have to buy plastic. It's crazy that there's no other option. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be vegan because like the meat and the fish also comes into the store in plastic.

So even if they wrap it for you in paper, it was once single use plastic. Yeah, it's crazy. So what I wanted to do is make this kind of a community thing. So what I wanna do is embark upon this 30 day single use plastic eradication project, which is really aspirational, right?

Like, you're not going to be able to do it 100%. Right. But to the extent that we can aspire to do better and do the best that we can, I'm going to do this. I invite everybody to join me and to chronicle your experience. Like, where is it impossible? Where is it frustrating? What are the changes that you made?

And I think what I'm gonna do is, I'll post like a image on Instagram or something like that. I'll do a post on it. And I've got Rocha, who's been a sponsor of the podcast, sent me a box of sunglasses. I've got like six pairs of amazing sunglasses, but I already have like so many, I don't need any more sunglasses.

So I wanna give these away. So I'll post this thing on Instagram. And then what I invite everybody to do is to embark upon this with me and then share your story in the comments on Instagram. And then we'll select some winners and I'll ship off those sunglasses to a select few. Whoever has the best story

or the most kind of impactful experience of the way that you communicate it, we'll just, we'll select a few people. Beautiful. Send those out. There are people who are really good at being no waste kind of, I guess. Well, there's some no waste gurus.

Yeah. So Trash is for Tossers, which is created by Lauren Singer. Right. I've tried to get her on the podcast in the past. We had some scheduling problems, but I've been in contact with her. But she has like a no waste store in Brooklyn.

I think, did she open one in LA too? They were going to, I don't know. I mean, I met her on the Five Gyres Expedition in the North Atlantic Gyre. And she is like the real deal. I think she started just doing like you're doing. I want to try to do this for a full year. But she kind of started creating those solutions on her own. And she has all sorts of tips. So at Trashes for Tossers on Instagram, that's a good place to go.

Yeah, she's cool. There's another woman, her name is B something, B-E-A. I can't remember her last name. If memory serves me of French descent, and she lives in Marin. She's got a couple of kids. She's also written a book about this. And I think she did a Ted talk.

I saw her speak once. And her entire garbage for the year, for an entire year of living with her husband and two kids was all in one Mason jar. I was like, how is that possible? When I look at the amount of refuse that our family produces weekly. And I just think that is so aspirational and badass.

It is, it's amazing. And also looks like a huge amount of work, but it's kind of like when you're not vegan and you look at it, you're like, oh, that's gotta be so much work. You must spend all your time dealing with that. And it just becomes second nature. I'm sure for her and for Lauren,

this is just their lifestyle. They're so acclimated to these habits that it doesn't seem onerous to them anymore. No, it's kind of like, I would guess, you know how when you first start eating almost or vegan exclusively, or in my case, like 99%, how all of a sudden your taste buds change to that when you do try something

that's not vegan, it tastes kind of dead to you. The flavor is not there, but vegetables and fruits have much more flavor. I mean, that was my experience of it. I imagine there's side effects like that from doing this too, like where you start to see these hidden bonuses that you didn't anticipate. Right, and suddenly everything pops out to you

in technicolor where we're so used to it, we don't notice it. But then if you have to backtrack, it probably hurts. Yeah, so I think this 30 day challenge is equal parts environmental and also mindfulness. Like it's like how aware and present are you with what you're doing and the choices that you're making? And again, it goes back to slowing down.

Like if you slow down, you enhance your awareness, you're present in what you're doing and the choices that you're making. And again, it goes back to slowing down. Like if you slow down, you enhance your awareness, you're present in what you're doing. And when your hand is reaching out to the shelf to pick something up, like to really consider what that is, whether you decide to buy it or not, I think is a interesting and compelling practice to adopt. Beautiful, Nice one. Should we move to the win of the week?

Let's do it. Big win of the week. I'm going to give to LeBron James and Patrick Mahomes. You know who they are. Best basketball and football players alive. They are come together along with other elite athletes, professional athletes to tackle voter suppression. And one thing that they're doing is opening up polling locations in dormant stadiums like Dodger Stadium in Los Angeles is going to be a polling place. There's arenas all over the country that they're turning into polling places. They are also aggregating their funds and paying

poll taxes in Florida to make sure maximum number of black voters can vote. They're basically attacking voter suppression of black people across the country in a handful of ways. And they've created this organization called More Than a Vote. And we're going to link to the letter that they just put out to fans, kind of an open letter detailing the work they're going to do. I just think that is going to have a major, major impact on voter turnout, which is going to be one of the big variables to this election in November. And regardless of which way you're leaning, which they say in the letter, it's your right to vote.

And it's really your responsibility to vote. But if you're not allowed to vote, then that complicates things. Or if access to voting is just too onerous. Because of the pandemic. That is voter suppression. So that's super badass. Very cool. The other big win of the week. The other big win of the week, we say this tongue in cheek, but it is a win, we say this tongue in cheek, but it is a win, is the new Georgia Republican Congresswoman named Marjorie Taylor Greene. She won on a campaign supporting QAnon.

So is she the winner of the week or is QAnon the winner of the week? I think QAnon won. I think QAnon takes the cake for the weekly win. Again, QAnon keeps winning, which is not good, by the way. They keep winning. They keep winning.

It's unbelievable. I mean, we've talked about QAnon before on the show, but I think it is worth exploring further. Like we kind of mock it and dismiss it. And we think of it as this bizarro fringe movement. Yeah, but that's only- And it's easy to malign it. But that's only because they think

like this cabal of people are trying to kidnap babies and drink their blood, like Tom Hanks. Of course. It's a global elite of evil child molesters. Right. And drinking the blood of children. Right. The drinking the blood part. I mean, that's how, that's Tom Hanks' secret. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know where to begin with this, but let's start with the fact that this fringe ideology, in certain ways, the argument can be made that it's gone somewhat mainstream. It's kind of reached this weird cult religion fever pitch, and I think it poses a legitimate threat to our democratic institution. Clearly. I mean, I think Kevin Roos, who we talked about with rabbit hole, basically was- He's an incredible reporter, this guy. Incredible reporter. And I think he was, like, the idea is that President Trump is the secret hero and he's going to destroy this cabal. And as president, he's the big hero. But Kevin Roos,

I think he pointed out that like, or no, someone else did like that. At one point, QAnon is thought of as fringe now, but so is the Tea Party. I don't know if that came from Kevin or not. Well, he did, no, he wrote an article basically, you know, questioning whether QAnon was the new Tea Party. Right, that's it, that's right.

So he wrote that piece and, you know, that's scary. But it's- And the thesis of it, there's a lot of distinctions. There's a lot of reasons why QAnon is very different from the Tea Party, but the parallel that he's trying to establish is that there's this sense that these things are fringe movements that we don't need to pay attention to.

And he's basically saying like, this is a lot bigger than people think. Like we mock it and we malign it and we dismiss it. But on Facebook, there are groups with millions of people who are chiming in and paying attention. Like what's the next cue drop? And how are we going to decipher this coded language? And what does it mean?

And it's almost like this adult, immersive video game experience that's filling a gap in people's lives now that we're working from home and have extra free time and we're feeling less than great about our daily existence. Like it's-

It's a role-playing game. It is an incredibly immersive role-playing game. It is. And it's giving people who perhaps are lacking some level of purpose and meaning in their lives, something to do, something to participate in, to be a community member with other people, to throw these ideas around.

And it's metastasized into this political movement that is actually really frightening in certain respects. It's kind of like a cult, pop cultural meets politics movement. Like it really is. It's like the anti V for Vendetta. It's like the opposite of a V for Vendetta type movement. Like you ever see that movie?

But it's the same sensibility, this idea that we're butting up against the machine. And in trying to really kind of on this theme of empathy, like trying to understand what is going on with somebody that compels them so much about this movement. And I think it's like this perfect storm of economic instability, fear about the pandemic, and the fact that in so many ways, the government has been dishonest with us and has let so many people down and there's a distrust of systems.

And with that, there's space to develop these conspiracy theories. So when we hear the narrative shifting and we become suspect of trusted institutions, we're seeding this landscape for this kind of thing to occur. So, you know, the fact that it even exists is baffling to me, but I guess I can understand it on that level. And then when we are dealing with ideas around the virus too, like I think that's really just amplified the intensity. Yeah. In insecurity is a big part of it. I think like empathy is one reason to discuss it.

I think like there might be, some of your listeners might have knee-jerk reaction to this is like, why do these guys keep talking about these kinds of things? Why are we getting political? Why are we having these kinds of discussions and beating the QAnon drum so loudly? And part of that might be because a lot of us

who listen to you and care about these issues, we have tools for ourselves that we can, we could drown out the world. We might have tools, we might have the ability and wherewithal to be able to block it out. And our lives might be just fine if we just train and meditate and eat well,

and our lives are gonna be good. But like, there is something about cluing into these larger trends that does matter, right? Like to even people who might have it wired on an individual level, on a family level, and none of us have it wired completely. I mean, the acknowledgement of that, but we have tools. Why does it matter to keep talking about these things to you?

That's a great question. How do I answer this? I mean, I think that it matters because truth matters. And I get concerned about our ability to function as a healthy society when we have this breakdown in communication and when we're living in various distinct realities. Like if we don't share a sense of what is actually going on, then how can we move forward collectively? Yes, we can focus on our individual wellbeing. We can develop our spiritual life and our emotional lives and improve our relationships with those that we're surrounded by. But when you scale that up, how are we functioning collectively as a society? And I see

scale that up, how are we functioning collectively as a society? And I see in the same way that we have an epidemic of lifestyle disease, I'm seeing a disease of the mind, right? Like what is the real virus right now? Is it coronavirus or is it an infection of ideas that is driving people apart from each other. And as a result, breaking down our ability to cohabitate in a healthy way. Well said. I've been, I just finished a little light reading. It's Plague by Albert Camus. And because I've been reading Plague and watching Plague movies during this period of time.

But one thing that comes out of it, it takes place in the 1940s in North Africa. There's a bubonic plague outbreak. And it's told from the perspective of several characters. But the thesis is people are more good than bad. And so even though we are harping on some of these things, I think it's important for us to affirm that we do believe that.

And that's one reason for me, I think it's good to talk about these things because the only reason we're able to, or not the only reason, one of the main reasons we're able to build these kinds of lives that we choose and follow our passions and work out and meditate and do all the things that make us whole is because we have a system that works, you know, that we feel like this underlying, that's the whole idea of the Black Lives Matter movement, that there's all sorts of people in this country that don't have, don't feel stable to be able to build a life that is holistic because they always have to be looking over their shoulders. But if you have an erosion of truth, then we're all going to be in that position too. And that's the warning of it, right?

That's the warning shot. So to me, it's like, we need to build that. So everyone has that foundation of stability and we can rely on things being equal and fair and that we can all have the opportunity to build those really uplifting lives. Yeah. Well said. Should we get to some listener questions? Yeah. This is from Camille in DeKalb, Illinois. Hello, this is Camille Baker from DeKalb, Illinois. Hello, this is Camille Baker from DeKalb, Illinois.

I was listening to one of the recent Roll On segments, and I heard Rich mention that he includes journal entries from Artist's Way as part of his morning mindfulness routine. And as an art therapist, I am very intrigued, shall I say, richly curious about how you stumbled upon the book as part of your journaling process and what your connection to creative expression is as part of your, how should I say, your wholeness journey or your healthy journey or just kind of your wellness journey is the best way to say it. So yeah, love your show. Love you. It's great. Thanks. Bye.

Thanks for your question, Camille. Journaling is a huge part of my daily routine, my daily regimen. I would say that it's more than just a part of my wholeness or wellness journey. It's part of being human, I think. I began journaling in 1998, initially when I was in treatment. When I got out of treatment, I started seeing a therapist and he suggested that I check out the artist way. And I started doing the program there. And I've done the program many, many times over the years. But one of the things that I've maintained and continue to do with great consistency are the morning pages and the artist date, which are two of the fundamental practices in the artist's way.

The morning pages, for those that don't know, are this practice where you start every day by writing out three pages in longhand in a notebook, not typing on a laptop or a computer, but actually getting pen and paper out. And the idea is to not edit yourself, to just start channeling and writing whatever is coming to mind. The idea being you're kind of clearing the cobwebs, you're trying to connect with your unconscious and opening over time that channel of creativity to surface. And I found it to be one of the most powerful and practical things that I do to connect with my creativity. And by creativity, I mean, not just creativity in a limited sense of like, oh, I'm gonna be a writer or a photographer or a filmmaker or a standup comic. I'm talking about the innate creativity that is endemic to all human beings and part and parcel of what it means to be a fully expressed human

being. Creative expression is entwined with everything that makes us who we are. We're all creative beings. And I think that most people are walking around incredibly creatively suppressed or stymied. And I think part of our job as people who are here trying to grow and progress is to bring voice to our unique sensibilities. That's what we're here to do. That's what we were born to do. I go into depth about this subject with Chase Jarvis on the podcast.

So you might wanna check out that episode. He's a photographer and a filmmaker. He wrote an incredible book about creativity. And his whole thesis is, as human beings, we're all born creative. And then we, over time, through our educational process, that creativity gets drummed out of us. And then we start to think that creativity is the purview of a select group of supremely talented people that we can't relate to. And that's just a lie. You know, that creative expression is in all of us in our own unique various forms and bringing expression to that, figuring out what that is, and then sharing it with the world is a gift that we're

all capable of doing. And I think it's incumbent upon all of us to do that, to bring more expression to that. You might also want to listen to podcasts that I did with Brian Koppelman, who's a screenwriter. He's the creator of the TV show Billions. He wrote the movie Rounders. He's written a lot of movies and he's just incredibly prolifically creative person. And this is a guy who's been doing the morning pages for like decades and he never misses a day. And he swears by it. He's like, I will not skip that no matter what. And he attributes his extreme creative output to the diligence of this daily practice. And I think there's a lot of profundity in that. So check it out, get on that Artist's Way program, get those morning pages cranking out. Yeah. I mean, it's like the danger is you just become a consumer only, right? Like we're creators too. So like we don't want to just become consumers. And you know, it goes back to what we were just talking about with role-playing, like susceptibility to role-playing type games or like a purpose that's beyond you.

You're just a consumer in that relationship. And it's so easy now to only consume. Yeah, it's in our pockets. We could just be consuming from that digital device in our pockets all day long. And it takes diligence to carve out time for creativity. So every time I look at my phone, I think, am I using this to create or am

I using this to consume? We talked about that in a previous episode. Absolutely. Cool. Let's hear from San Juan, Puerto Rico. Hey, Adam. Hey, Rich. Gabriel, all the way from San Juan, Puerto Rico. Rich, I discovered you through my YouTube feed. And since then, I've been watching countless videos of you. And wow, has it been so beneficial to me personally and my overall well-being. And I thank you so much. Now, my question is, how do you get over a breakup? Now, I was in this seven-year relationship with this person that I grew up with, my first love. We grew up together. We saw each other grow through the bumps, but nonetheless,

we wanted to get married to each other, and that was the plan for 2020. Now, the complicated part of the relationship was dealing with her in-laws, And it got to a point where it was just abuse for me personally. And I endured so much confusion and hardships that emotionally I was just derailed. It was one moment that I decided that I can't take it anymore. And I ended the relationship for my emotional health. And it's not easy. Anyway, thank you guys so much. Take care, guys.

Much love. Thanks for your question, Gabriel. Glad you're getting a lot out of the podcast. I appreciate the kind words. And I feel for you, brother. Breakups are rough, man. First thing I would say is you're 25. You're young.

You have your whole life ahead of you. The fact that you're even thinking about how to process this in a healthy way speaks to how healthy you are as an individual. So I have full confidence that you're gonna navigate this successfully and look back on it. And it's just gonna be a blip on the radar.

That's the first thing. The second thing I will say is that you ended it for your own personal emotional health. And I think that also speaks to how well that you're dealing with this. It tells me that you set a boundary for yourself and held yourself to that boundary. And that's an indication of self-esteem and self-respect. So good job there. I would add that I don't think that you should repress any of the emotions that you're experiencing. This is the moment to feel all of the feelings

that you're having. Don't run away from them, try to engage them. Each one of those feelings is an opportunity to learn something more deeply about yourself and what makes you tick. And to be patient, you can't rush this process. You can't snap your fingers and just get over somebody. Time heals and this is going to take time and just allow that process to unfold as it wants to unfold rather than trying to control it.

I also think that culturally, we tend to look at breakups as failures. This is a relationship that didn't work out. I feel bad about it because it failed, but I really don't like that nomenclature or that perspective. I think every relationship that we have, every relationship has its own unique timetable and its own unique shelf life.

And every relationship, whether it perpetuates for the course of your lifetime or it ends a month later, are all growth opportunities. And I think a relationship can be a success and still reach that termination point. Just because it's ended doesn't mean that either of you failed because people are not static. Everybody is growing and regressing and changing all the time. And the idea that two people who are together are doing that in lockstep is bananas. Of course, we're going to grow at different speeds or we're going to move in different directions at different times. Maybe one person is growing at a rapid rate and the other person is regressing or not growing at the same rate. Or with that

growth comes a change in your value systems that make you suddenly incompatible. I mean, that's normal. And I think it's shocking that any relationship works out. When you think of it in that context, you begin to understand that most relationships become irreconcilable with time and making a relationship work is a gigantic undertaking and sometimes ending them is the right choice. So the growth for you and the assignment for you is to really go deep into these emotions

that you're feeling, to really do a forensic analysis of what happened, to do an inventory of your part in not just the breakup, but in the relationship itself and what led to the breakup and to identify whatever character defects emerged that you can work on for yourself and to identify the growth opportunity. Like what was dysfunctional about the relationship and why?

And what were you told that you were doing that didn't work? And can you see that objectively and own any truth that you can identify in that? And then what is it that you can change so that moving forward, you can be in a healthier relationship with a more suitable partner in the future? Like, how can you approach your next relationship from a healthier perspective? Partners as completing us or filling some need or aligning with some programming or inherent pattern that we've repeated over time throughout our lives. Like, for example, if you had an emotionally unavailable dad, then you're going to seek that out. That same character trait is going to show up in the partners that you're choosing on an unconscious level or the diametric opposite of that. So it's about understanding that programming that can help you make a better, more objective

choice next time that's in your best interest. I would also say that it's important to focus on, not focus on what's the kind of person that I want to have in my life? Like who is that idealized girlfriend or partner? And instead focus on yourself, focus on trying to be the best person that you can, the person that you would wanna be with, rather than trying to find the person who makes you feel like that person, because water is always gonna rise to its own level.

So that's my big speech. I guess I will close that with just offering that the next time you're engaging in a relationship, try to approach it from a perspective of what can I give to this relationship rather than what am I gonna get out of this for myself? I think the more of that kind of mindset that you can have, then you're in a healthier position

to have a highly functional relationship. And you're fucking 25, dude. You're going to be fine. Yeah. The only thing I'd say that's very well said, the only thing I could say from a guy who's been through some breakups, including one when I was 25, is that a lot of times, even though you were the one that ended this and you knew it was coming, a lot of times when men are anticipating a breakup or the end of a relationship, they don't actually feel the feelings during that kind of slow dissolution.

It's like once you've turned the page, all of a sudden it hits you with a ton of bricks and you realize, and you kind of go into weird internal panic mode almost. Whereas women, when relationship is ending, they kind of anticipate it and they start feeling those feelings a little earlier and they're better equipped to move on quicker. And that's my experience anyway. And men, it takes a little bit longer and I wouldn't expect to feel necessarily even happy day after day after day until like a year after. It could take a year

before you start to feel like your normal self again. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. That's just the way it goes. And so I wouldn't rush that process. I think patience, like you said, Rich, that's key to these kinds of things. And just don't even think about it. Like a year, you will wake up a year from now or from whenever the breakup happened, and you will be finally feeling like yourself again. That's my prediction.

You know what I just watched recently that I think is probably the best movie that he should watch right now? What's that? Swingers. Yes, that's a good one. Because really it's a buddy movie about one guy trying to get over his breakup with his girlfriend.

It's exactly that. And it's actually got kind of a profound message in there amidst all the insanity of that movie. And it gave us, you know, it gave us Favreau and Vince Vaughn. Vince Vaughn, yeah. And many other careers, Doug Liner. Many other careers. Yeah.

So watch Swingers. Watch Swingers ASAP. And don't mind the low production value. That's part of his greatness. He's 25. He probably hasn't seen Swingers yet. You might not have seen it. It's hard for me to imagine that somebody hasn't seen swingers, but.

You know what's sad is swingers is closed now. The deli swingers that wasn't that. Yeah, I know. Well, but the- But that's not the one they were modeling. Right, so here's an interesting aside. So the actual diner that they're at throughout the movie is actually the 101 diner.

Right, right, right, right. And you know who the mayor of the 101 Diner is? Yeah, of course I do. But you tell the people. DK. DK Gold. He is. He might be there right now.

It always comes back to DK. He might be there right now. He might be. All right. All right. Let's go to North Carolina. Hey, Rich and Adam. This is Josh from Raleigh, North Carolina.

I've heard it said that the universal is rooted in the particular. As someone who found your podcast years ago when peeling the onion of veganism and endurance sports, but stayed for the honest discussions of sobriety, my question is this. If there is a through line of sobriety, diet, and endurance, what is the universal truth that those particulars point to? Thanks so much. I look forward to listening, and it's fine to play this on air. That's such a good question. Yes.

I really love that question. Thank you, Josh. I think that the through line is self-discovery. It's personal growth. Like whether it's some kind of diet protocol, veganism or otherwise, whether it's movement, these are just tools for stripping away the layers that separate you from a higher version of who you are.

Like when I decided to go vegan, it didn't occur to me that I was doing this to develop a better relationship with myself. I wasn't consciously aware of that. But when you strip away the crap that you're eating, suddenly there's an awareness that starts to percolate up. And I'm like, why did I always eat that thing? Or why is culture set up where we're supposed to do this

and not question this? You start asking yourself questions. And I think there's a grappling with your higher self that starts to occur that over time quickens or deepens your connection with your higher self. Whether it's veganism or endurance sports, it could be minimalism.

Like what happens when you strip away the excess in your life and you're left with yourself and you have to be with yourself and you have to look at yourself in the mirror and there's no distraction. What do you do then? How terrifying is that when you have to meet yourself for who you actually are?

So again, these are things that I've used, like endurance sports was fundamental in my journey because I was spending so much time alone by myself out in nature with an elevated heart rate and no distractions. And I was very confused at the time about who I was and what I wanted to do and how to express myself and who am I fundamentally, right? As cheesy as that sounds. And that process was like this gauntlet that really taught me about who I am and what makes me tick and what my values are

and who I wanted to be. So it's not about veganism or endurance sports as much as it is finding some analogous vehicle that can be that tool for you, because we're here to be authentic to who we are. Like it goes back to the answer I gave to the other question. Like fundamentally, we're here to grow. We're here to express our most authentic self. And in order to do that, we have to discover our unique blueprint

and figure out what our values are. And then the journey becomes, how do you align those values with your actions? I love it. Self-discovery. And that is so rich, right? Because that is like... And that's the universal.

Like the particular is, I'm not going to eat this or I'm going to do this activity today. And the universal is, who am I? Right. Who am I and why are we here? Right, exactly. But it's micro and macro because you're like, okay, who am I? Because the world's always trying to tell you who you are, right, and part of that is you make choices

and depending on how old you are, those choices end up kind of creating an identity for yourself that you might wake up and be like, wait a second, how did I become this person? It's about regaining control over those reins, right? And rather than allowing your identity to be dictated to you by a group that, you know, you feel more comfortable being aligned with or whatever marketing message or television show or music video or whatever it

is to start shouldering responsibility for crafting that identity for yourself. But what's interesting is like you're saying self-discovery, you know, started out by, I'm going to try not eating this and eating this instead. It's like, for me, I'm going to try swimming in the ocean because it's like, feels good. But then you don't realize like that does become like- A spiritual odyssey. It does become an odyssey. Yeah. What happens when I can't, you know, pick up that bottle and drink that thing and understanding. And understanding like, oh, that was stunting my emotional and spiritual growth. I thought I just liked being drunk.

Right. But there's so much more going on. Like these little actions that we don't realize are so powerful and potent in determining like who we are and the decisions that we make about who we wanna be. Love it. All right, last question from Mystery Man. I'm not even sure his name's real.

He's in an undisclosed location. Hey guys, my name's John. I'm calling from an undisclosed location that is not in California or Texas. I was wondering what you guys think about Joe Rogan leaving LA and moving to Texas. Do you think there is a mass exodus out of major metropolitan areas and

people moving to less populated areas where the effects of climate change are less severe, the overall quality of life better? Have you guys personally thought about leaving California? By the way, thanks for recommending Down to Earth on Netflix. My wife and I loved it. Thanks a lot. Bye. Cool. Thanks, John. I will answer your question if you will tell me what undisclosed location you're- Yeah, where do you live, John? First things first. Now I'm obsessed with figuring out where John is. He's in a silo deep in Middle Earth.

First things first, I'm not surprised about Rogan leaving California for Texas. I think Texas fits him. It makes sense to me. It seems aligned with his sensibilities. But also, you know, his Spotify deal is about to kick in. And I think he stands to save like 16.8% in income tax by moving to Texas from California. So from a purely financial perspective,

it makes perfect sense. Absolutely. And, you know, he's mentioned it on his show a couple of times. I mean, he's, if he's more centrally located, it's easy to get people from both coasts. It will be interesting to see how it affects the show because when you're in, like I can't imagine not living in LA or New York just because by virtue of proximity to guests

and having access to those people. In the pandemic, now we're compelled to do a lot of this Zoom stuff. I'm hoping that we're gonna get back, some ability to do these in person. And I've been able to do that occasionally with a mix of Zoom stuff. But at some point when it's safe to congregate again, how is that going to impact his show? But he's just conducting his show the way he always has with doing testing on site and stuff like that. But yeah, it'll be interesting to see. But Austin is not like, I mean, it's a cultural kind of center as well.

Yeah. I mean, we thought about moving to Austin years ago. Yeah. When we were kind of going through our financial dismantling and looking to really downsize. I thought really seriously about moving to Austin. I love Austin. I think it's a fantastic place. I've never been, oddly enough. Oh, it's cool. You would love it. You would to Austin. I love Austin. I think it's a fantastic place. I've never been, oddly enough. Oh, it's cool. You would love it. You would love it. I'm told.

On a broader level, first of all, I'm not leaving. I'm here in California to stay. But I have found myself thinking about it in a way that I hadn't previously. Like, where would I go? Like, yeah, Byron Bay sounds pretty good right now. You know what I mean? Like getting out of the US completely.

And I think we're starting to see and we will continue to see what I think will be a mass exodus from metropolitan areas, you know, with this work from home movement, the virtual workforce explosion. Most, not most, I don't know about most, but a lot of companies are not going to go back to normal, even in the event of a vaccine and the virus lifting, a lot of these

things are going to remain. They're going to persist. Yeah, commercial real estate's going to suffer. Yeah, we're going to see this crazy real estate fallout and what's going to happen with that, who knows. But listen, you've contributed to the New York Times. If you were a New York Times reporter living in Manhattan or Brooklyn right now doing stories, nobody's going into the New York Times. There's no reason that you would have to live proximate to the corporate headquarters. So why would you where you're paying exorbitant rent when you could live wherever you wanna live?

Yeah, I mean, who knows? I mean, I've heard that New York rents have already dropped 15% because so many people have left because of the pandemic. And I just heard that today. We haven't seen that drop in Los Angeles yet, but I think it could be coming. I'm like you, man.

I think about it all the time. I think about leaving all the time, but I mean, I could coming. I'm like you, man. I think about it all the time. I think about leaving all the time, but I mean, I could never live away from the ocean now. Like I know that. And so I'm pretty much locked into high rent. Go to Costa Rica. You go live in Costa Rica. I can, but now I'm on this podcast twice a month. It's hard to get here from Costa Rica. Yeah, right? I know. It's really messing up my game plan if Trump wins. I think what's happening is the pandemic is just an accelerant on all of these trends that were in various stages of nascent infancy.

So virtual workforces, online education, all these kind of percolating trends are now just blossoming in the light of our current situation. And they're only going to become entrenched and exacerbate this exodus. When you realize that we can decouple place from profession, people are starting to wake up and realize like,

oh, if I could live wherever I want and it's not tied to my employment, what would that look like? So I think, yeah, of course could live wherever I want and it's not tied to my employment, what would that look like? So I think, yeah, of course, people are gonna flee the places where we're seeing viral outbreaks and exorbitant rents to live in a place where you can have the lifestyle

that you want for yourself. I think meanwhile, we're gonna see massive changes in education. We're already seeing it. I think it's gonna put a lot of mid-tier colleges out of business. I think we're gonna see the explosion of telehealth. Again, this decoupling of place and the need for proximity

is really going to amplify these technological trends that are gonna give people a different lens on how they wanna live. Why live in Manhattan or Silicon Valley if you can work from home and avoid rent that's just bananas? What about together in a sass? What's going to happen to city centers? Right.

In a long-term sense. I think it's going to revolutionize how we think about downtown areas and commutes and civic spaces. Even when we can congregate again in a healthy way, what is that going to look like? But don't you think it could be, because we're basically seeing a rerun of how things like,

it used to be city centers were vibrant places, and then all of a sudden in the 70s, the suburban, suburbia bloomed and everyone left, and downtown LA was a sh hole and like nobody wants. Now it's coming back. And now it's awesome and then it's gonna leave again. Like, isn't it kind of like this ebb and flow in the human space of like, yeah, yeah.

But I think what's not gonna go away is the human need for connection. Yes. You know, like people wanna be together and there's something about city centers that draw people to them, irrespective of their employment. That's why I think there's going to be a correction. Eventually it's going to come back because in some places like newsrooms, there is an energy of collaboration that's important. I mean, there is something to that. So I think some companies will choose to come back to the office, but maybe, I mean, maybe not for a while. Well, it's weird, like it used to be the big benefit is that you could work from home, but now the benefit will be like, you get to come into an office. Yeah, you get to get

away from your family. You know what I mean? It's weird. And like, I could do what I, I suppose I could do what I do anywhere, but like, I miss New York. Do you? I would love to have, I'm like, rents are dropping in New York. Like, I wonder if I could get an apartment in New York, but like, I miss New York. Do you? I would love to have, I'm like, rents are dropping in New York. Like, I wonder if I could get an apartment in New York, you know, like, even though New York is a shit show right now, like I miss that immersion in culture and people, you know, and I live in, I live in a beautiful place in LA, but it's relatively remote. Like I'm not in, I'm not like the vitality and the energy of that place is so specific. And so rejuvenating, at least in short bursts for me.

So, you know, I would wanna be in that community irrespective of my employment. Well, someone will take those apartments. I mean, the good thing about New York rents dropping is that there's all sorts of working people that made the city cool, like way back in the day that got priced out. My hope is that it will bring the cool people back, right? Because New York got boring because it's just too overpriced. All the people that made New York

interesting had to leave. Yeah. We'll see what happens. I'm not leaving California anytime soon. Not that anyone really asked me, but it's okay, John. I'm not going anywhere anytime soon. Not that anyone really asked me, but I'm not going anywhere anytime soon. Although I do think about it. I do think about it. And I think of Australia as well, but that's because I could get a passport. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, California's got problems right now, but there's a lot of great stuff. I'll tell you where I wouldn't move from California and that's to Texas. I just wouldn't, I'd never move to Texas. No, I don't think I would. I mean, I like it. I've been there and it's cool. You haven't been to Austin though. I just wouldn't. You wouldn't move to Texas. No, I don't think I would. I mean, I like it. I've been there and it's cool.

You haven't been to Austin though. I haven't been to Austin. That's true. I do want to go to Austin. Reserve judgment until you visit it. Austin is cool. I understand why, like I'm not moving there,

but like I can appreciate Austin. I love Utah though. I would think about Utah. Really? I love Utah. Yeah. I'm not moving to Utah. No?

It's beautiful. It's like almost Colorado. I know, no ocean, that's why I won't live there, but yeah. All right, let's wrap this up. That's it everybody, thank you for tuning in. Thanks for your questions, I appreciate it. How do you feel, Adam? Do you feel like we did a good job today?

I feel great, yeah. I mean, I always feel like we did well, but I mean, maybe that's just- Sounds enthusiastic. Well, maybe I have overinflated self-esteem and I always think I did well. And then I find out later- I thought you did a wonderful job. I enjoyed that thoroughly.

You can follow Adam at Adam Skolnick on all the social places. If you want your message considered to be read and answered on the show, leave us a voicemail at 424-235-4626. Subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, on YouTube, on Spotify. Hit that notification thing on YouTube, except not for this one because we didn't film this one. Yeah, not on YouTube. But in general, I suppose. Check the show notes on the episode page at richroll.com. We'll put links up to everything that we talked about,

including all of those ways that you can get involved and contribute. You can also submit your question on our Facebook group, the Rich Roll Podcast Facebook group. I have one more question before you sign off. We're in a very superhero room right now. We're in an undisclosed location. We're in an undisclosed location. We're in an undisclosed location surrounded by various superheroes and villains.

Yeah. Who's your favorite Batman? My favorite Batman? Your favorite Batman. You're coming at me with a curve ball here. I know, well, I'm staring at Batman. Yeah. I gotta give it up to Christian Bale for sheer intensity,

but I got a soft spot in my heart for Michael Keaton. Oh, really? Yeah. I go Christian Bale. There's a revisionist history around the Michael Keaton Batman. Is there? Yeah.

I haven't listened to that one. He's being resurfaced as the greatest Batman. Is there? Oh, okay. So it's not an actual episode of revisionist history. No, no, no. It's just a kind of a percolating cultural philosophy. Because he's the most, like he's kind of merging.

Michael Keaton is like a merger of Adam Rich meets Christian Bale. A little bit. I don't know. Blake, what do you think? I like Adam West, man. Really? Adam West? Adam West.

Just for sheer satire and like. I watched it as a kid. Yeah, okay. Really? Me too. That was still on when you were a kid on TV land

yeah that was so cool Dave do you have an opinion on this my only opinion is not George Clooney not yeah oh

there's consensus I know Clooney George Clooney all right all right this is getting ridiculous we're done thanks everybody

who helped put on the show today Jason Camiolo and also Blake today for audio engineering production, show notes and interstitial music. Blake typically videos the show, but we had a situation today.

Jessica Miranda for graphics. We got Davey Greenberg on portraits today. Georgia Whaley for copywriting. DK for advertiser relationships, holding court at the 101 Diner as we speak. Although I think he's in Seattle right now. Theme music, as always, by my boys, Tyler, Trapper, and Hari. Appreciate you guys.

Thanks for tuning in. Let us know how you thought this one went. How did it land for you? Hit us up on the socials, and we'll see you back here in a couple days with another episode. You want to take us out? Be cool, be kind. Right on, right on.

Peace. Plants. Plants. Thank you.