The Rich Roll Podcast - Radhanath Swami On The Search For Light

Episode Date: September 3, 2020

As a reminder that we are spiritual beings inhabiting a material world -- wandering this rotating orb as it hurls across the multiverse — it's time to once again transcend the mortal coil to connect with all things ethereal. Our guide for today's celestial adventure is the candescent Radhanath Swami. A New York Times best-selling author, monk, philanthropist, activist and teacher, his Holiness Radhanath Swami is a man that radiates love, compassion and grace with a sweet and joyous disposition that has immeasurably impacted millions of souls across the world. Born Richard Slavin to middle-class parents in Chicago, he came of age amidst the strife and upheaval of the 1960s. A social activist, he slowly became disillusioned with the structural mandates of the western civilized way of life. So, still in his late teens, he left Chicago behind in search of greater meaning. After hitchhiking across the world, he felt called to India. There he met his spiritual teacher, catalyzing his transformation into the mystic he is today. Along the way, Radhanath Swami has founded multiple spiritual communities throughout the world, the most prominent of which is the Radha-Gopinath Ashram located in Mumbai, India. Under his inspiration and guidance, the project has grown to include hospitals, orphanages, a UN-awarded eco-friendly farm, schools, temples, emergency relief programs, and a food distribution program that feeds more than 300,000 children in India every single day.  In addition, he teaches Eastern philosophy and spiritually throughout Europe, Asia, and America. His wisdom has reached over 100,000,000 views on social media in the last year. He has been featured as a guest speaker at Oxford, Cambridge, Princeton, Harvard, Columbia and Stanford, and at corporations such as HSBC, Microsoft, Facebook, Google, Intel and Oracle. Along the way he has met with many a world leader, including Barak Obama and former Prime ministers Tony Blair, David Cameron and Prime Minister Narendra Modi. Today he shares his story. This conversation is fueled by my concern for cultural cohesion -- a desire to help mend the vitriolic division and existential tension that is tearing us apart. Therefore, beyond exploring Radhanath Swami's story of origin, we spend the gravamen of our exchange examining what he calls 'the light'. It's about how to embody the space within ourselves that brims with compassion and empathy -- and why a committed spiritual practice is more important now than ever. I understand that some may recoil when it comes to topics spiritual. But this is not about religion. And it's not about dogma. Simply put, it's about why love is the answer. So look past the robe. Set aside preconceived opinions. Open your heart a crack. And be present to receive what this evolved human has to share. If you do, I think this powerful conversation will leave you feeling nourished, more hopeful and immensely more positive about our global predicament.  Today's mind meld is viewable (via Zoom) on YouTube. And as always, the audio version streams wild and free on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. I hope you enjoy today's episode in the spirit in which it is offered -- with radiant love. Peace + Plants, Rich

True knowledge, true wisdom, true enlightenment is to see every living being with equal vision. The purpose is to connect with God's love and to be an instrument of God's compassion. How could there be hatred in the name of a loving God? Sarva Loka Maheshwaram, the Gita says, everything that exists is coming from the source of all love, what we call Krishna or God. So all of creation is God's property. How can we misuse, exploit, or pollute sacred property?

The very environment that we are all completely dependent on. The idea of Mother Earth. It's a reality. Just like an infant baby is completely dependent on Mother for survival, whoever we are in this world, we're completely dependent on Mother Earth for air, for food, for water, for everything. Our bodies are composed of her elements. So to be compassionate to other beings, to be respectful to God, is inseparable from being an environmentalist. We can't separate them. It's hypocrisy to separate them because they're all interconnected and all living beings are interconnected.

and to understand this interconnectivity of creation. Unless we change ourselves, how much can we really change the world? That's Radha Naswami, and this is The Rich Roll Podcast. Greetings, all you spiritual beings inhabiting material bodies that wander this rotating orb as it hurls itself across the multiverse. This is your host, Rich Roll, and today we ascend the ethereal with the luminous Radhanath Swami. Born Richard Slavin to a middle-class family in Chicago, his holiness, and this is a holy being, is a true proper monk. He's a prominent philanthropist. He's a New York

Times bestselling author, an environmentalist. And today he is here to talk about his journey, to talk about compassion, love, empathy, and to impart a broader perspective beyond the three-dimensional constrictions of this mortal coil and to help us embrace dimensions beyond. We're brought to you today by recovery.com.

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This guy, Richard Slavin, was somebody who amidst the strife and upheaval of the 60s, slowly began to find himself disillusioned with the mandates and the restrictions of our Western civilized way of life. So, in his late teens, he ends up leaving Chicago basically in search of greater meaning. He hitchhikes across the world and ultimately ends up in India where he meets his spiritual teacher

and then undergoes this transformation into the mystic that he is today, the founder of spiritual communities, of schools, and relief programs across the world, including an eco-friendly farm, and even this food distribution program that feeds more than 300,000 children in India every single day. Along the way, he has penned New York Times bestselling books, like his memoir, The Journey Home. He's spoken at many institutions like Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, and Stanford. He's spoken at corporations like Microsoft, Google, Facebook, and Oracle. which we touch on for a few minutes near the end of today's conversation. In any event, he's here today to share his story.

And part of my desire to have this conversation was fueled by this dismay that I have at our cultural divide and this desire to explore various means to heal the existential tension that is tearing us apart. So we spend quite a bit of time examining what he calls the light, how to embody space within ourselves that brims with compassion and love and empathy and why this is more important now than ever. I understand that some of you may recoil when it comes to topics spiritual, but

this is not about religion. It's not about dogma. So I encourage you to look past the rope, to set aside any preconceived opinions you may harbor, to open your heart a crack and just be present to receive what this being, this evolved human has to share. And if you do that, I really think you'll find this conversation powerful, leaving you much as it did me, feeling nourished, more hopeful, and more positive about our global predicament. Whether you consider yourself spiritual or not, Radhanath Swami's message is packed with timeless wisdom to foster a healthier, more positive, and more pleasant worldview. Quick note, given the pandemic, this one was relegated to Zoom, but I hope to cross paths with this shining being in the physical realm at some point in the not too distant future.

at some point in the not too distant future. And as a final note, typically I would be publishing a roll on episode today, but good fortune prevented my biweekly confab with Adam Skolnick from taking place due to the birth of his son, Zuma James Kalu Skolnick, which I think just might be the most epic baby name of all time. Zuma arrived in the third dimension this past Saturday

at 6 11 PM Pacific standard time, baby and parents, Adam and April Wong are doing well. So congrats to all of you and Adam and I will be back together soon. In the meantime, send those guys some love. And with that nugget of good news, please enjoy my exchange with Radhanath Swami. Radhanath Swami, thank you so much for joining me today. It's a delight to be in your virtual

presence. My only misgiving is that we couldn't do this in person. I hope that at some point, we get to cross paths in the physical plane. But for now, we are relegated to Zoom. And I just appreciate you taking the time to talk to me today. Rich, I'm so honored, so grateful, and so very happy to be with you today. I can feel your presence already. There's so many things I want to talk to you about to explore with you, but I think I'd like to begin this by spending a little bit of time talking about our present moment. We just feel so divided currently. Everybody seems to be siloed in their respective information cells. Emotions are running very hot. People are spending a lot of time defending their respective positions, signaling their membership and good standing to their respective tribes. And I'm seeing this

breakdown in our ability to effectively communicate, to listen to one another, to understand each other. And all of this, of course, is being heightened by the many crises that we're currently facing, both existential as well as practical, from the pandemic to global warming. Right now, Greenland is melting, California is on fire, Right now, Greenland is melting. California is on fire. We're seeing hurricanes on the horizon. And of course, amplified by our inflamed political landscape. And all of this is leaving hearing your sense of our current moments and perhaps how we can find our way to some place of healing as a nation, as a global community to unite around our many shared values. How do we raise our collective consciousness and restore some semblance of cultural cohesion so that we can write this beautiful mothership earth that we call home. That's a big one.

It's really a big one. I'm looking to you for the answers. But really, in whatever situation the world may be in, because it's always changing, this is the most important question. When things are in a very prosperous, pleasant state, we know that that's going to change. we know that that's going to change. And when things are in a very critical, painful state, we know that's going to change too. So it's really important that we find the foundation within ourselves and among ourselves

that really is meaningful and purposeful in life. You know, pain is so inevitable, as death is inevitable in this world, but there's something beautiful in life. There's something beautiful in creation. There's something beautiful in our own self that's always there and that's always waiting for us. And we can do the greatest good for the world when we're connected to that. And we help one another to connect to that. So, what is the process of creating that connection. You know, at times like this, sometimes we take for granted the light of life until we're surrounded by darkness. surrounded by darkness, then we really look for the light. And we really appreciate that the light is there. And these particular times throughout history, many of the greatest accomplishments in art and science and in religion, spirituality, in architecture, you know, have happened at times

of great challenge. You know, oftentimes challenging situations brings the best out in people or could also bring the worst out in people. And that's just a choice that each and every one of us could make. In the Alcoholics Anonymous organization, which I've been invited to speak to on several occasions, you know, there's a unity, a beautiful unity among the people on the basis of the crisis that they have been through and to a certain extent that they're, there's something urgent that we have in common that we could really focus on. and this pandemic and the political landscape. There's so much to be concerned with. We need to find like-minded people. We need to find unity in diversity where we could actually nourish and inspire one another

because unity has the greatest strength. And that unity becomes stronger and stronger when each individual helps others to cultivate their own individual strength and purpose. And that's where a spiritual practice is really important, where we actually go to that power, to that grace, to that goodness that's inherent within our own hearts, within our own souls, and tap into that and be an instrument of God's love, of spiritual love, and share that with one another. And it's beyond a sectarian idea. It's beyond a nationalistic idea. It's beyond a racial idea. It's beyond, you know, where every living being is sacred. The whole creation is inherently sacred, but we can't really appreciate that until we understand that I am sacred. The living force within me is sacred. I don't have to compare myself to anyone or anything.

I just have to be the best I could be for God and for other people and for other living beings. And the more we share this and the more we take this serious to practice it, the more individually and collectively we could actually do something really wonderful in this world. And there could be positive transformations of light. And we have to be searching for that light, and we have to be moving toward that light together. I appreciate the optimism and the enthusiasm for a brighter future. And I love what you had to say about how things like compassion, future. And I love what you had to say about how things like compassion, forgiveness begin with the self. Like we can't exude that compassion or that forgiveness for others until we extend it to our own beings. It's very difficult for a lot of people. I've had my own journey with that.

And in Alcoholics Anonymous, which I also love that you referenced that, I've been a member of that community for 23 years at this point, they say you can't transmit something you haven't got. You can't be compassionate to others unless you are inherently compassionate, and that compassion begins with self-compassion. And what's beautiful about that community is exactly what you said, that it is not about politics or religious proclivity. It's about sharing a common experience for the betterment of all. It's about looking past our differences and identifying the similarities. They say to people when they come in, don't look for the differences. Try to identify with what you relate to. Try to find your own story in the collective stories of the people that are sharing.

And I try to take that sensibility into the world because it is so precious and beautiful. of this collective experience is not only a successful experiment in that subculture, but is a beautiful template that I think is applicable to all. I would only like to see it more broadly embraced and explored in society at large. Thank you so very much. It's so true what you say. There was a great saint in India who wrote something that really had a deep impact in my heart that I refer to when there's times of challenge. He said, where there's the greatest need, there's the greatest opportunity to serve. there's the greatest opportunity to serve. And compassion really is the foremost of all human virtues.

And it's the deepest, most inherent nature that's within everyone. Where there's love, it's expressed as compassion. And where there's great need, there's great necessity. And you referred to also the Alcoholics Anonymous people come together because there's a need. People need to hold on to each other's support. You know, right now in California, there's these fires and it really breaks my heart, especially, it's such a blessing to the world, the redwood forests, where these trees that have been standing and growing for thousands of years. for thousands of years. And there's an underground secret in the Redwood Forest that I learned from a park ranger when I was there once, that despite all the storms and the fires and all things that have happened over these centuries, how do the trees keep growing, especially on loose soil and hilly regions? Because the roots of the trees, their nature is to reach out

underground to find the roots of other trees. And when they touch each other, they embrace, they wrap around each other. And in this way, all the trees of the whole forest are directly or indirectly supporting each other by embracing one another's roots, coiling around each other. The giant ancient trees have the little tiny trees that are just growing, their roots are wrapped around, and they're all supporting each other. And it's true, unity is strength. You know, the whole concept of America is the United States of America. And there's the United Kingdom. Union is such an important principle. And the basic ideal of that union is that all people are created equal.

All living beings are children of God. created equal. All living beings are children of God. How we actually find love within our own self is how we will respect and honor and be compassionate to all living beings because sacred. And at times like this, we really need to understand this is a wake-up call to wake up to the sacredness of life and put aside our egoistic and selfish ambitions because there's a higher principle. There's a more important principle. It's beautifully put. I love the analogy of the root system and how the collective thrives only in embracing that interdependence. And when I think of the United States of America, And when I think of the United States of America, I can't help but think of the countervailing force, which is rugged individualism, this idea that responsibility for your person to do it themselves, to make their own way, to be a self-made man, is at odds with that fundamental core idea of the United States

of America and the inherent truth and need that we only thrive through our communion with others and our interdependence with the greater whole. And reconciling those, I think, is a battle that we're seeing being waged culturally right now. And I guess I would say that I wish I shared your optimism and your enthusiasm for us seeing our way through this successfully. And of course, you're a little bit older than me. Your life experience is informed by perhaps the most similar phase in the history of our country, weathering through the 60s, late 60s, the civil rights era, and all the kind of beautiful chaos that ensued there, all the kind of beautiful chaos that ensued there, the trauma and also the progress that was a result of that.

And I'm wondering if you see what's happening now as something similar or distinct from what you witnessed throughout that period. The 60s were a very turbulent time. The 60s were a very turbulent time. There was a large segment of the younger generation revolted against the older generation, the government, the war in Vietnam was something very real. If you were 18 years old and you didn't have some, a lot of wealth for a deferment, then you either had to kill people that you saw no reason to harm or you go to jail. You know, you were actually put in that situation. You know, it was a war that many people did not believe we should be there And um, it turned out correct also And the civil rights movement

You know, there was so many atrocities That have always been against the African-American community in America. It's so heartbreaking. But we see that, you know, through the dark eras and through the conflicts and the challenges, many great things have come from that. Many great things have come from that. Many transformations within people's hearts and many transformations within the society. idea that as long as there are individual people who are connecting with other like-minded individual people who are really looking for the light and who are really connecting to the light within themselves and valuing the principle of love and compassion and humility, then wonderful things will happen within this

world. Well, I feel nourished by that statement. Thank you for that. Why don't we take it back? I want to explore your personal journey now that we're speaking about the 60s and the civil rights movement. You grew up in Chicago, middle class family outside of the city, right? Your dad was a, he owned an auto body shop, if memory serves me. Like you grew up, you were like a, you were an athlete, you were a wrestler. You grew up, you know, very, in a very typical, normal, you know, in a very typical, normal, somewhat suburban, Middle America household, correct? Something like that, Rich. Some version of that? You encapsulated very well.

Yes, when I was young, my parents were struggling middle class. They were really struggling. They came out of the Depression and they were unfolding as I was growing up. I just could not be content just winning some athletic medals or being cool and having, you know, nice things unless I could be a change. So, where do you think that sensibility emanated from? I know you showed indications of this as a very young child, like not wanting to sit at the table, wanting to sit on the floor for dinner and eschewing meat and dairy and sort of demonstrating these saduistic impulses as a very young person, which is unusual, right? Like, so where do you think all of that was coming from? Is this a, you know, past life made manifest or how do you think about that? Past life made manifest, transformation through experiences in this life. And ultimately, I believe God's grace. You know, all these things come into play.

We may or may not be able to specifically understand the reasons, but we can understand the effects that are happening. And there are so many little things that happen in a person's life that gradually create a perception. I'll say one thing, that when I was young, my father went through bankruptcy. So when I got a little older, maybe 14, 15 years old, I always had jobs after school and on weekends. So I wouldn't be a burden. And my first job was in a place where it was mainly African Americans who were there. It was at a car wash. And they were coming from the south side of Chicago. And they were my parents' age. And they became my dear friends. And I just loved them. I loved their music. I loved the spirit that they had so deeply. And I saw how, you know, in those days in the early 60s, they really hardly had a chance. chance. Most of them were alcoholics. They were in poverty. They were discriminated against. They were treated unfairly. And this so much disturbed me. It so much disturbed me. I felt that we were one in our love for each other.

And how could I be happy if my brothers are being treated like this? And, of course, my family is from Jewish ancestry, from Eastern Europe. So many of the people from my family you know were killed in the holocaust uncles and aunts and cousins and like that so you know there there's this dark side of humanity that needs to be changed. There's the saying, if you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. And I really wanted to be a part of the solution.

And I heard Gandhi's statement that be the change you want to be in this world. So I became a social activist. But then I came to an understanding that the greatest social activists that I admired were people who had a deep spiritual connection, a connection to God's love, which actually gave them strength against all challenge. challenge. And unless we change ourselves, you know, how much can we really change the world? So, little by little, I went on a spiritual quest to find myself. And that became the very predominant goal of my life is to have a spiritual connection. And in my own life, I traveled across the world looking for that spiritual connection. But what I ultimately discovered is it's right within our heart, right within our own home, wherever we are. If we can't find it there, we really can't find it anywhere. But I had to go through this great journey to come to that discovery. Well, there's a beautiful nobility

and a large maturity to develop that kind of awareness as such a young person to understand, like, I am here to be an agent of positive change and to shoulder that mantle and to try to figure that out. In your case, you go on this walkabout, you describe it in your books and in your many talks. And when I read this, I can't help but think about some of the other great spiritual seekers over the ages from Paramahansa Yogananda to, you know, I think of Siddhartha, and I think of Ram Dass and all these people that have had similar versions of your experience.

And I compare that to my mindset at 16, 17, 18, and it's in such stark contrast, that expanded awareness, that devotional commitment, and that sense that there is something more beyond the athletic medals or trying to be popular in the hallways of your high school that is unique. And so I'm still trying to get at that sensibility. I understand you had these experiences as a young person, but there were a lot of people that had experiences like that. They may carry that trauma or that may inform their life in a certain regard, but to shed the shackles of Western society completely and to give yourself over in this ascetic way to go on this walkabout, basically penniless, relying on the kindness of strangers and all the adventures that

ensue is such a beautiful way of trying to develop the awareness that you carry today. I'm not so sure that it would have happened had you not experienced the world in that manner. We all have our calling, and it's not really so important what age we have that calling, but when that calling for goodness, when that calling for truth, when that calling for light, when that calling for light, when that calling to be the change that you want to see in the world. And I deeply believe it's God's calling coming from within us, which could echo from around us through other voices too. But ultimately, it's a calling from within. And we all have our ways of responding to that calling too. But in my life, this is how I responded to that calling.

Yeah, I suppose in order to heed whatever calling is happening, you have to be present and aware enough to notice it's arising. And sometimes situations in the world that are startling, that are worrisome, even sometimes situations that appear hopeless, they alert us to responding to that calling. So you find yourself in London, you're trekking about Europe, you're in Athens, you're sitting on the banks of the Thames in London at night, soaking in the moon, watching the river flow. At some point, you have this undeniable urge or calling to go to India. So walk me through that experience. calling to go to India. So, walk me through that experience.

Well, you know, coming from Northern Illinois, I went to Europe with two of my friends. We were supposed to be there for just two months and then come back for going back to college. I went to one semester of college. And that was the plan. That was our plan. But we got robbed the first day we were in Europe and we had no money. And one of my friends went back to America that same day. And the other, you know, we made the scene in various places. And we were very popular. And in many ways, we saw there was the world was opening up to us like anything, even though we really didn't have a home or money or anything, just because the interactions with such beautiful people and such opportunities.

But this calling, this little whisper to find a spiritual connection was always there in my heart, and it was getting louder and louder and louder. And that's really what started me on this quest. I was spending a lot of time on riverbanks and in forests, and I was meditating and reading various spiritual literatures from various religions. I was going to synagogues. I was going to churches. I was going to cathedrals. I lived in Catholic monasteries. I was studying. I was searching. I was going to museums to study art, to find spiritual clues. And eventually, I was living in a cave on the Isle of Crete, which is part of Greece. And I was just praying to God for direction. And it was there that I had this voice within my heart that said, go to India. And I had never met an Indian person in my life. I've never ate

a chili pepper in my life. I had no map. I had no money for a map. But I just left my friend the next day and started hitchhiking to India. And I just believed if I just go in the eastern direction, eventually I'll get there. Eventually, right? You travel through Afghanistan. You're immersed in extreme poverty in that situation. You're in Pakistan. You have this extraordinary story about getting caught up at the border between Pakistan and India. Can you tell that story? the border between Pakistan and India. Can you tell that story? Well, I hitchhiked through Turkey and then Iran and then through Afghanistan and Pakistan. The whole trip took over four months. Now I get on an airplane from London and I do it in nine hours the same amount of distance but it's not as educational but it's much safer for sure when I was in the European countries I was studying Christianity and Judaism when I was in the Middle East, I was studying Islam from some Islamic scholars and very holy people, actually. And when I finally came to the border

of India, India and Pakistan have been in conflict politically since the partition, and there's a no-man's land between the two countries. And when I left the border of Pakistan, I had to walk a couple hours through this no-man's land to get to India. And at that time, the border post was in a forest near the city of Ferozpur in Punjab. And when I arrived, they asked how much money I had. And as far as I remember, I had 26 cents in about four different currencies. And the immigration agent was very, very angry. She said that we have enough beggars in India.

We don't want another one. Go back to where you came from. And I pleaded with her that I just hitchhiked from London and I got so many diseases that almost killed me and people tried to kill me and so many difficulties I had to get here because I want to learn from your people. Please give me a chance. get here because I want to learn from your people. Please give me a chance. And she wouldn't do it. So, for hours and hours and hours, I was just sitting under a tree and kept coming back and asking and getting rejected. But the problem was I couldn't go back to Pakistan either because I only had a one-time visa. So, I was in this no man's land and there were no cell phones in 19... This was 1970 and there was no phone booths. There was no... I was

just there. And finally, just around the sunset time, the guards changed. And one man from the Sikh community who was a soldier took the post. And after the other immigration drove off in a Jeep, I went to him and this man said to me that I have been ordered by my commanding officer to reject you unless you show me at least $200. At that point, I cried. And I really cried because I was 19 years old and I, and it was hopeless. And I begged. I said, I've given up everything of my life to learn from your country and to learn for your people. Please, just give me a chance. And I promise you that someday I'll do something good for the people of India. Someday, I'll do something good for the people of India. And being an immigration agent, he looked into my eyes with such an interrogating glance.

He was just looking into my mind and into my heart. For about a minute, he just stared at me. And then he spoke. He said, sometimes a man must follow his heart. And even though I have been ordered to reject you, I am going to give you the chance that you're crying for. And then he stamped my passport and said, welcome to India. I love that. That's beautiful. I feel like you need to reunite with him.

I would like to see you visit him again and recount that story to him. I wish we could. Yeah. But that was this year marks 50 years since that event happened. And so what was it about this experience in India that was so compelling and transformative for you? Well, I went to the Himalayas and I was studying from yogis. Some of them were living in the forests and mountains and in caves. And I was going to different ashrams of different saints or gurus. Some of them were very famous.

Some of them were unknown to the world. I was studying Burmese Buddhism and Zen Buddhism and Tibetan Buddhism. And I met people who were from the Baha'i faith. I was really trying to understand. And of course, within the Hindu faith, there's so many different branches of ways of approaching the one supreme being. So, I was just like a little sponge that was absorbing and absorbing and absorbing and learning. And many situations were such blessings to my heart. Some of them were very disappointing and some of them were enthralling

and so full of joy and gratitude. But they all kind of were bringing me forward in my search. And Rich, I ended up like this. I know, look at you. Who would have known, right? Was part of this quest an effort or an attempt to reconcile the hypocrisy of many of the religious traditions that you'd grown up around, like this idea that there's something unhealthy about the institutionalization of many of these ideas and faiths. But beneath all of that, there must be some kernel of shared insight and wisdom, and the quest is about getting to the truth of that. Is that a fair assessment?

Thank you so much for asking that question. It's a wonderful assessment. And I'll just echo what you have already so brilliantly spoken from my own experience. um both as a child as i was growing up and as i let us say, could nourish so much arrogance that I am better than you, and we are better than them. And that arrogance And that arrogance can lead to prejudice, to judging people on the basis of our own ego, and even to hatred, bigotry, and violence in the name of God. How could there be hatred in the name of a loving God?

So I came to a crossroads where either I had to completely reject religion, as many very thoughtful people that I was reading about and meeting personally, they were rejecting God and religion because of all the things I just said. So, I either have to reject religion as being something very dangerous or very superstitious, or there must be something very beautiful, something very wonderful that's at the heart of all great religions. And somehow in my life, I believed that that beautiful essence was there at the heart of all true spiritual paths, and I wanted to find it. And as I was searching, I found that when people have the insecurities where they need to feel above others, They take religion as a justification, sometimes even as a weapon for that purpose. But actually, the whole purpose of religion is to become completely humble and free of ego.

It's supposed to free us of our ego. It's not supposed to nourish and build our ego, but that's based on free will. Like anything, we could use science for destructive purposes, or we could use science for very beneficial purposes. We can use education, academia to help people, or we can use it to exploit people. We can use strength to uplift people or to push people down. Everything in this world, you know, we have a knife. Is it good or bad? In the hands of a thief, it kills someone, and the same knife in the hands of a surgeon cures someone, saves a person's life. So, religion is like that too. If we're really looking for the true purpose of religion, what the actual saints taught us, what's at the heart of the scriptures, then we find that it's to humble ourself before God's love and to be an instrument of that love and to see every living being as God's children. And when I read the Bhagavad Gita, a particular verse, I remember when I read it, I thought, a particular verse, I remember when I read it, I thought, this is it. Because in the Bible,

it is said the first and great commandment is not to be this religion or that religion. It's to love God with all your heart, mind, and soul, and to love your neighbor as yourself. And actually, everyone's our neighbor. Not only all humanity, but all living beings are our neighbors. If we love God, we will naturally love our neighbor as ourself, if we know ourself. And that was a very important principle. And then I read in the Bhagavad Gita, and I'm going to recite the Sanskrit first. Okay. True enlightenment is to see every living being with equal vision. To see that the living force, wherever there's life, is a part of God, is sacred, is divine. And when we understand that divinity within ourself, we actually can recognize

it within others. And then it's not just about tolerating one another and tolerating our differences. It's actually appreciating the unity within the diversity of this world. The unity within the diversity of this world. And the more I went into the religion of bhakti or devotion to Krishna that I follow, the more I went deep into that, the more I really loved and appreciated all other aspects of religion and spirituality because it was, I was looking for the essence. And you found that in bhakti yoga. I mean, you, you know, over the course of your travels and your seeking and your searching, you've sat at the feet of many a master from Krishnamurti and all kinds of people, but there was something specific about Prabhupada that spoke to you that didn't immediately compel you to, you know, relinquish everything and follow him. You know, it seems like you crossed paths with him many a time before you fully embraced that this would be, you know, somebody to follow and that this methodology, this approach to spirituality,

follow and that this methodology, this approach to spirituality, this, you know, guidebook for living would become a guiding force in your life. But what was it about or is it about Prabhupada's message and specifically bhakti yoga that distinguished it from many of these other, you know, sort of spiritual strains and the various, you know, paths you could have explored with Hinduism and, you know, many other strains of religion from Christianity to Judaism. For me, Rich, bhakti yoga puts its greatest emphasis both in the goal and in the practice in cultivating love, love for God and compassion for all beings. There's a beautiful statement, para duka duki, that one who's really enlightened in any religion is one who feels the sufferings of others and who feels the joys of others. One who rejoices in the happiness of others

and one who suffers in the sufferings of others. But when we suffer for the sufferings of others on the basis of compassion, that actually creates an inner ecstasy because it connects us to our own natural love. And bhakti is that path which is very much focused focused on awakening ecstatic love and whatever our words, whatever our actions, whatever our thoughts, we're really trying to harmonize that in a spirit of compassion to others. And I found that in that sense, humility doesn't make one fearful. It actually makes one very courageous, but not in an egoistic, selfish way. We understand there's a higher power that's with us,

and that higher power is meant to heal us and to help us to heal others. and to help us to heal others. And in Bhakti Yoga, the idea of the supreme truth is very personal. You know, there's an all-pervading, absolute, omniscient, omnipresent existence of the one supreme. But the scriptures of India teach simultaneous to that, the impersonal, all-pervading truth or light. There's also the supreme, all-beautiful, all-loving person of the supreme. And that idea, that realization and meeting people who were connected with that um it just attracted my heart so deeply and when i when i met prabhupada i met him several times and it was in brindaban where I was living, a place where there's over 5,000 temples of

Krishna. Some of them are thousands of years old. When I was living there on the bank of a river, the Yamuna, I happened to meet Prabhupada. He came there for a few days. And I had already accepted the path of bhakti just by my own experiences and my own studies that this is what I wanted to follow. But I didn't know who my teacher would be. And I remember I was sitting in a room with Srila Prabhupada and I heard his talks, I heard about him, and it very much opened my heart. And one thing that really had a special effect on me is there was just a few people in the room one day.

people in the room one day, and one was a, I think a journalist, and he asked, are you the guru for the whole world? And by this time, Srila Prabhupada had thousands of disciples and he had temples all over the world. And I was wondering, how is he going to answer this? And Srila Prabhupada was sitting on the floor, as we all were. And when he was asked that question, he looked down. And I saw such a sense of humility in his eyes. And then he looked up and he said, no, I'm just the servant of everyone. That's all. And I was thinking, of all the people I met, you know, people who could perform miracles, I saw so many of these supernatural powers and people who had so much knowledge and so much powers of so many ways.

I felt this is what I want. That expression of genuine humility spoke to you. That type of love where you're so humbled by by your love for god you just want to serve everyone and you could do that as a business person and you could do that as a politician and you could do that as a teacher and you could do that as a technology or a scientist. And when you have the ambition of compassion in the forefront of your heart to please God, then you're more motivated than greed. Sometimes people think without greed, what will be our motivation? But it's only due to an absence of love and compassion that that greed comes into our life.

When we actually have that, we're even more motivated. A mother's love for her child, she'll do anything and everything. She'll stay up night after night to help her child because there's love. And the greatest people who have changed the world have worked tirelessly and risked everything on the basis of compassion and love. And it's that principle that attracted me to Prabhupada and attracted me to this path. Well, you certainly exude it. And in your recounting, I'm thinking of this distinction between my inclination to intellectualize it, like, I understand that, that makes sense, I get it, versus the embodiment of it and the practice of it and the exuding of it in all of your interactions and in how you sort of walk through the world and encounter people

and nature. Those are two different things. And I think in our Western mind, we're prone, we're kind of driven to live in our heads and to intellectualize these things. And that is very different from the experience of living and breathing it. Well, philosophy, intellectualization is something that has such great value if we have the capacity for that. But if we don't, we could still achieve the same thing. But when the heart and the head are harmonized, then we could really move in a beautiful direction in our life.

Prabhupada once said that philosophy without spirituality is just mental speculation. And spirituality without philosophy can degrade to sentimentalism or superstition or even fanaticism. So, the harmonizing of philosophy and spirituality, and when I say spirituality, that means having a practice in which we're really striving to live with character. Yeah, I believe that we're all here to walk that path in our own respective and unique ways to become more fully actualized and integrated, that connection between the head and the heart. And in my own personal experience, pain has been my lever in order to help me wake up and start to grapple with many of these issues and to come to an awareness and understanding that although we instinctively know that the material world, like consumerist goods, power, fame, none of these things are

going to fill this hole that we all have, that they're not going to sate us, they're not going to sustain us or give us that sense of wholeness that we yearn for, that we seek. And yet, like addicts, we pursue these things to the depths of depravity and insanity until we meet that personal pain point. And then when we reach that, we think, well, if I just get that promotion, or if I can just lease that new car, or I can move out of this neighborhood into the other neighborhood, then that hole will be filled, then I will feel So I think it takes quite a bit to compel the human mind to broaden itself and entertain the possibility because of the strictures of our culture and how materialistic it is and the messages that we're being constantly bombarded by. That the true path to happiness and fulfillment lies beyond all of this. And breaking that denial, coming into that awareness is a difficult journey for most.

So well said. It's like if we're on a ship on the sea, on the sea. It's really important we have a compass that we're going in the direction of our desired destination. But the compass that we're sort of given is do well in school, go to the right college, do well in school, go to the right college, get the right job, work hard, and then you can get the stuff and then everything is going to be fine. That's the compass. That's how we calibrate our decision-making. And yet, we know intellectually that this is leading us awry, and yet it's so difficult to recalibrate that compass according to a spiritual principle. Well, the idea of satsang or the company of enlightened people is important because then we get a real life compass, not the wrong compass.

Mm-hmm. We want to actually have a life compass that actually gives our life deep profound meaning and purpose and you know this is what all the avatars the incarnations of god and all the saints they're giving us a compass and then when we're on the ship, there's so many things. It's not that we just follow the compass. There's so many things we have to do simultaneously. You know, sometimes there's a storm and we have to make all kinds of adjustments. Sometimes it's a nice day and we have to keep things clean and we have to keep things in. There's so much we have to do but at the same time we're going in the direction that we really want to be and in the same way like what you're saying we have to pay the rent and we want some of us want new cars and some of us want some popularity and all these

things of this world. They're there. We deal with them. Sometimes we have parents that don't understand us and sometimes we have children that don't understand us. There's so many challenges in life. Being spiritual doesn't mean neglecting those duties, whether they're financial or emotional or social, it doesn't mean that we ignore them. Doesn't mean we reject them. It means we deal with all of them, but with in harmony with the compass of where our life really is meant to be, where we want to go. As spiritual beings having a human experience, and as much as you are a renunciant, you too live in the material world. You dress in a certain way, and you carry yourself in a certain

regard, and you spend your time in India and you do these things, but you are still of the third dimension. You still have to operate in 2020, right? As much as you might want to opt out of that. Of course, I'm more immersed in modern culture than you are, and that brings its own unique challenges. So the practice then becomes, how do we bring these principles into our life and infuse our mindset and our daily actions with that energy? What is the practice for you? Is it ahimsa? Is it seva? Is it devotion? Is it prayer? Is it compassion? Is it love? It is all these things. How do we do that? How do we bring more of that into the daily life experience of the average person who is perhaps listening or watching to this and being introduced to these ideas for maybe the first time? In Sanskrit, there's four words,

satsang, sadhana, sadhachar, seva. And I'd like to explain these four practices. Satsang means if we really want that compass to be going toward a divine, enlightened destination, if we really want to connect with God's love and be an instrument of God's love, we need that compass. And that comes by regularly, as much as possible, being with like-minded people, being with enlightened people. We have a choice of what we're going to read and who we're going to be with, and we need regular nourishment to give us confidence that this is where I want to go. And the second is sadhana. When we really have a spiritual purpose in our life, it's not just something sentimental. It has to actually be practiced. We have to give some time of the day to cultivate that. Just like somehow or other, whatever we have to do in our life with our families or our occupation, we find time to eat.

We find time to sleep because without that, we become weak. So spiritually, in order to have a spiritual strength in whatever we do, we need to nourish ourselves. And that's sadhana. And in my sadhana, we chant God's names, we chant mantras, we also pray, and putting some time aside each day, early morning is a really good time, whatever time, where we're actually focusing on our spiritual practice, making it a priority.

And then when we go out into the world with the strength and the direction from the people who inspire us and our own spiritual practice, then we live with integrity. spiritual practice, then we live with integrity. We live with character. We don't perform our worldly activities with excessive arrogance or selfishness or greed or envy, but rather, we actually do it with moral principles, with character. And ultimately, we're trying to harmonize whatever we're doing in a way that we can best be compassionate to our family and to the world. And then seva. then whatever we're doing in our life, it all becomes part of how we're serving God and serving all of our brothers and sisters of all species of life within this world. And that's something that's totally doable and totally practical for everyone in whatever situation we may be in, if we just take it seriously and make it a priority. Beautifully put. Can we spend a couple minutes talking about the japa, the mantra, and what it is that is so powerful about the repetition and the sequencing of these words that creates that very particular vibration that I've sensed and experienced that allows me to tap into something,

I don't know what to call it, beyond or more profound than my ego, which I love to cultivate. The word mantra is two Sanskrit syllables, man-tra. Man means the mind or the heart. And tra, trayate, means to liberate. So mantra means a sound vibration that liberates the mind from suffering and from pain, the mind from suffering and from pain, which are caused by pollution. That the mind is compared to a mirror. And when you look in a mirror, you expect to see yourself. But when the mirror is covered by layers and layers and layers of dirt and pollution and debris after so many years of neglect, then what do we see when we look in the mirror, we just see that dirt. And what is that dirt? It's our selfish passions. It's our arrogance. It's our greed, our envy, our anger at people and things that just don't go the

way I want them to go. And so many illusions of misconceiving who I am and what the world is. illusions of misconceiving who I am and what the world is. So this is the dirt. And a mantra is a sound vibration that actually has the power to clean the mirror of the mind. And as it's cleaned, we actually see our self. And who is the self? Who is the self? Nijayate mriyate bakadache. That the self is the living force that's seen through the eyes and hearing through the ears and tasting through the tongue and thinking through the brain. That living force that animates a body, that gives consciousness. And that living force in Sanskrit is the atma or the soul and that soul is never born and it never dies that soul is a sacred part of the supreme soul it's full of light. Its inherent nature is unmotivated, unconditional love.

That's the nature of the soul within everyone. But due to the various coverings over the mirror of the mind, we're not seeing our soul. We're not living accordingly the mind is supposed to reflect the nature of this of the person of the soul um so this mantra is a cleaning process an awakening process as we become cleaned of these um anartas or unwanted characteristics that we're clinging to our natural innate ananda or happiness is awakened and when we're happy within then nothing of this world can make us really unhappy because our happiness is beyond all the things of this world. And then we simply want to be an instrument of that happiness to make others happy. The Vedic literature, there's a beautiful

verse, sarve sukha nobhavantu. The whole purpose of religion, of spirituality, is let all beings be happy, to be an instrument to give happiness to others. So that's what this mantra does. And it's like a frequency. It's a divine spiritual frequency. A mantra is usually composed of names of God. And there are many names of God in all the various religious paths. of names of God. And there are many names of God in all the various religious paths. And these mantras or these names of God, when chanted with the right temperament, with the right purpose, they actually tune us in to the divinity that's within us and all around us. Just like on a television, there are so many channels. And if you press one station, you go to a frequency where you see a football game in Dallas, Texas. And then you press another one and you see the president of the United States giving a lecture. And then you

press another one and you see a soap opera. People are crying and loved ones are separated. And according to the frequency, you get a completely different experience. So within the world today, there's so many accumulated frequencies. There's the accumulated frequency of arrogance and lust and envy and anger and prejudice and all of these things. And according to what we do and who we're with, we tune into those frequencies and they affect us. A mantra is the frequency of love, and they affect us. A mantra is the frequency of love, a frequency of compassion, a frequency of inner happiness and peace. And when we chant sincerely and our lifestyle is not contradicting the progress we make, then through japa or through chanting God's names, we actually awaken by tuning into our true inherent potential. Beautifully put.

The irony, of course, is that most people are living their lives subsumed know, subsumed by the Maya, right? Their mirrors are obscured and polluted. And there is no sense of what it would be like for that mirror to be cleaned because the Maya is so all-consuming, right? The delusion of our material world. And I reflect back on my youth and I would see Hare Krishna monks at the airport chanting or in the parks and just thinking, that's another version of humanity that I can't connect with. Not only do I not understand what's going on with these individuals, I was sort of scared of it. And I remember that being a barrier when I started to open up to different ideas around spirituality. It was a barrier to me embracing the practice of japa. Like, if I'm going to chant Hare Krishna, then

suddenly I'm like those guys in the airport that I thought were so odd that I couldn't connect with, that I couldn't relate to. How do you communicate to the average human being who doesn't have experiences with these things so that they can kind of overcome whatever barrier they may have because of the superficiality of appearance. Does that make sense? Do you know what I'm getting at? I was trying to be very politic in how I described that. It was beautifully stated. Thank you.

how I describe that. It was beautifully stated. Thank you. It is a reality that our tendency is to see things according to our external perceptions without really understanding. You know, like that beautiful speech that Martin Luther King gave in Washington, D.C., that when will that, I have a dream that people will not judge a person by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. So, you know, when I was living in the West, you know, I had the same experience as far as strangeness. You know, things that were just very different and hard to understand. And look at you now.

And when I went to India, it wasn't really in the context of the Western Krishna movement, but it was, I saw and I found and I discovered within my own life something so beautiful that was so deep and inherent within the culture of India, which was so universal at the heart of all religions, really, in the heart of all humanity. And I found that. And then when I reconnected in Vrindaban, especially a holy place, with the people from the Krishna movement... The birthplace of Krishna, yes? Yes. I understood that in the West, it may seem strange, the dress, and it may seem strange, the cultural habits, but what's at the heart of it? And there's also a lot of people who just don't represent properly, you know, the real spirit. Right, the institutionalization of the teachings.

That's true with any path. There's those who really represent the real spirit and those who don't. And that's their the very core of the Vedas, at the very core of India's culture and religion, and at the very core of what I believe the universe of religion itself. And that's really why I became like this. And there are various cultural, traditional ways of expressing it. And I just find so much joy and so much enlightenment in this way of expressing it. But I understand that there's so many ways of expressing it. And in fact, I live in India for many, many decades now.

And, you know, we have, you know, several communities that I oversee. And there are monks who are like me, because this is really the robes and the dress of a monk. Yeah. But we have tens and thousands of people who have families, who are working. We have a hospital with doctors and nurses and administrators. We have industrialists. There are CEOs of international corporations. There's farmers. There's professors at colleges. There's mothers and fathers. And in the congregation, In the congregation, you would only know that they're devotees of Krishna by their character and by communicating with them in that way. But otherwise, they look just like everybody and they're doing exactly the same things as everyone as far as occupational life.

As everyone, as far as occupational life. But the purpose is to connect with God's love and to be an instrument of God's compassion. And that's a beautiful thing. And my mother and father, when they came to India and they saw people like them, who were so deeply devoted. And then they understood that actually, this is really a beautiful spiritual path and not everybody's going to be a monk. Yeah. I watched a YouTube interview with your dad. He was recounting the experience of what it was like for him when you left and were in parts unknown and the challenges that that presented for basically a middle-class family. But what was undeniable was his love and his pride for what you ultimately became.

It's very touching, heartwarming. It's very heartwarming. It's even more heartwarming hearing it from you, Rich. Thank you. What is the role of the ascetic, the renunciant, the monk in the modern age? Like, how do you view yourself in that kind of context? It's a role. In our tradition, it's not that being a monk makes you more enlightened or God-conscious. One could be in politics, one could be in politics one could be in business one could be in entertainment one

could be an athlete if if we follow these principles of being with people who enlighten us and having a spiritual practice that we that we do sincerely and we live with character and the desire to serve, then one can make just as much spiritual progress, maybe even more, as the Bible says, be in this world but not of this world. And that's really a universal principle. So, being a monk is a service to society. I'm not a monk because I think that I'm making more spiritual progress than other people who are living with families and who have jobs but not having a family of my own in the sense being celibate and living according to the traditions i do is an opportunity where i could make the whole world my family and i can just my my role is to have no other purpose except to remind people, enlighten people, and try to educate and inspire people. Beautiful. Well, part of that is, I mean, you have the ashram and you've got the

hospital and you also have this eco-village, which I wanted to hear a little bit about. Can you explain what this is all about? It's called Govardhan Eco-Village. And I won't go into the history of it, but the principle of it is that humanity really needs to not only intellectually understand, but to see models of how to apply the principle that creation is sacred and all living beings are sacred. We see so much of the pollution in the world and so much of the exploitation of the world. You know, there's this social crisis that's happening, you know, between races and between prejudice and between religions.

And there's also, you know, ecological, you know, the air, the water, the land being polluted. water, the land being polluted. And when we understand that all beings are God's children, all species of life, wherever there's life, there's a desire to be happy, there's a desire to live. And I became a vegetarian 50 years ago when I saw a cow and her little calf and how much they loved each other. And it was the first time I was so close. And I remember thinking, that mother cares about her little calf as much as any mother. And that little calf loves the mother and depends on the mother just like any child. And why can't we see that they want to live and they want to be happy just like us? And, you know, humanity and all beings are seeking pleasure. Everyone is seeking life, liberty, and the

pursuit of happiness because everyone's God's child and everyone should be respected as God's child. And there may have to be justice for people who violate other people's rights, but it should be with that spirit. And all of creation, Sarvaloka Maheshwaram, the Gita says, everything that exists is coming from the source of all love, we call Krishna or God. So, all of creation is God's property. How can we misuse, exploit, or pollute sacred property? The very property, the very environment that we are all completely dependent on. The idea of Mother Earth, it's a reality. Just like an infant baby is completely dependent on Mother for survival, whoever we are in this world, we're completely dependent on Mother Earth for air, for food, for water, for everything. Our bodies are composed of her elements. So, to be compassionate to other beings, to be respectful to God is inseparable from being an environmentalist. We can't separate them. It's hypocrisy to separate them because they're all interconnected

and all living beings are interconnected and to understand this interconnectivity of creation is the basic principle of govardhaniko village so we have models we have environmental models because we see in india we're in a village environment, we see so many problems there are. And we have water harvesting because we understand the value of water. There's so much drought. So many people around us are committing suicide due to the poverty based on drought. But we can teach them how to harvest water and have enough water throughout the year without changing anything except knowing how to do something. And, you know, we have people who created a machine that turns plastic that pollutes into usable oil without any trace of

pollution in the air. It's all sealed. And we make our bricks out of the ground that we walk on. And they're beautiful bricks that theoretically they'll last for hundreds of years, we'll see. But they're beautiful. And we do organic natural farming. We have an animal sanctuary, a bird sanctuary, a butterfly sanctuary. And it's all based on spiritual themes. And we take all these various technologies of mulching and creating organic natural fertilizers and pesticides and many more things. And we go to the villages, hundreds of villages, and we give them an opportunity to see how you can improve your life by just applying these natural principles. What a beautiful expression of this ethos of

oneness, you know, the consistency with which you practice the philosophy of bhakti yoga, like very much with boots in the ground. I love that. And I feel like that's a wonderful model that we need to bring, you know, more to the United States. We're seeing this resurgence of regenerative farming and care for the soil. And then separate from that, people who are developing technologies around plastic, et cetera. But to create a model that is replicable where you're doing all of these things in one place to tend to the land in this practice of devotion, really, to Gaia, to Mother Earth, I think is beautiful. We're really trying. Govardhan Eco Village, we have the Govardhan School of Yoga, where we have teachers training, and we have a school for Ayurveda and a whole Ayurvedic hospital, which is natural medicine.

And we also have a college there where we're teaching these things. universities, Yale University, Harvard University professors coming for symposiums, and people are coming actually from all over the world for creating a model of a retreat center that's environmentally very exemplary and that's really helping the villages and the communities around us. Oh, that's fantastic. I want to visit. Please, we invite you. All right. I would love to do that. I don't want to take up too much more of your time, but there's two things that I want to ask you before I let you go. The first thing is, I know that you've met a lot of amazing people over the course of your lifetime, but I know that you had an encounter with Barack Obama, and I just want to know what you guys talked about when you met him.

I really found President Obama to be a beautiful man. We didn't speak for a long time, but quality is oftentimes much more powerful than quantity of time. Sure. I really felt a deep heart connection, and I really felt he truly and genuinely wanted to do something really good for America and for the world. And of course, in politics, there's so many challenges and so many considerations

that somebody has to make, but we had a beautiful connection. That's good. You're not gonna tell me what you actually talked about. That's a joke. You don't have to. Well, I'll tell you what- I think it's better actually,

only if you feel comfortable, maybe it's better, actually, only if you feel comfortable. Maybe it's better if you don't. Like, I feel like you want to keep that, like, there's something sacred about that, that you just want to keep to yourself. I'll tell you one. Which is fine. All right, go ahead. He looked at me, you know, I'm a sadhu from India. I was the only person like that.

But a fellow Chicagoan. When I told him I'm from Chicago, he just lit up and he said, you are from Chicago. And, you know, from that point, we were just brothers. All right, good. I feel better. Last thing, and then I'll let you go, which is I want to leave people with something practical, something tactile that they could practice or build into their lives that would help them develop some spiritual awareness. If somebody is at the starting line of this journey, this adventure, and they think, well,

of this journey, this adventure, and they think, well, awakening, how do I become more integrated? How do I align my heart with my head? These are very ethereal principles, right? They're elusive. It's like, well, just tell me what I actually should do. What is a practice that I can begin that will perhaps catalyze some growth or progress in this area. One little spark, if it's fanned and given proper oxygen, can become a blazing fire. We shouldn't underestimate a spark. So, when we come in our life where there's this spark of an inclination to understand who am I and why is there so much suffering and what is the purpose of life? What will make my life truly meaningful. And if there is a God, you know, really, what is that connection? When that spark of awakening comes, then to seek out people who can

give oxygen to that spark, to have a spiritual practice, a meditation, a chanting of mantra of God's names, to actually fan the spark of our spiritual inclination for meaning and purpose. And as we do that, then the light grows brighter and brighter and brighter and then we can actually give light to the world beautifully put thank you for that and thank you for

spending this time with me I feel much better than I did an hour and a half ago how do you feel? you feel good? I feel so much better Rich you did an hour and a half ago. How do you feel? You feel good? I feel so much better, Rich. You are an amazing personality. You're so pleasing to be with, and your questions are so insightful and so well thought out and from the heart. My ego thanks you.

Actually, there's two egos. There's the real ego and there's the false ego. And the real ego is that I'm an eternal soul, an instrument of love, part of God. And the false ego is what separates us from everybody else. The real ego unites us. So, your real ego is something very, very beautiful. And we all have to, you know, as the real ego becomes more and more stronger and emerges, then the false ego dissipates. Yeah. Well, may we embrace the real ego.

I'm working on the other part. It's a work in progress. It's like in Northern California, sometimes there's such a heavy fog, but when the sun starts rising, then the fog is dissipated. Dissipates, yes, lovely. Well, promise me that if you find yourself in California,

that we can do this in person once again. I would love to do that. And I want to thank you so very much for including me. And I want to thank all of your viewers or listeners for so kindly and patiently being with us today. and patiently being with us today. If people want to learn more about you, they should pick up your books, The Journey Home, The Journey Within, both fantastic reads. Where's the best place to direct people online who want to learn more? Amazon.com has both of them.

But your website, radnaswami.com? both of them. But your website, radhanaswami.com? There's on Facebook, also on the website, it's there. Good. Well, I'll link up all of those destinations in the show notes. And until we meet in person, my friend, thank you for spending this time with me. I really greatly appreciate it. And I wish you well and continued health and happiness as you spread your light across the globe, because we need you. We need you now more than ever. Oh, if I have brought some happiness to your precious heart, Rich, then my day is very auspicious and wonderful.

All right. Thank you. And with that, we conclude. Thank you. Thank you. Peace, Blance. Can you feel the vibes? How are you doing? Do you feel nourished? If so, I encourage you to check out Radhanath Swamy's memoir,

The Journey Home and its follow-up, a New York Times bestseller as well, The Journey Within. Give him a follow on the socials at Radhanath Swamy on Instagram and Twitter. And please visit the show notes on the episode page at richroll.com to read more and peruse the many links to expand your experience of this human and our conversation beyond the earbuds. If you'd like to support the work we do here on the show, subscribe, rate, and comment on it on Apple Podcasts, on YouTube, and on Spotify. Share the show or your favorite episodes

with friends or on social media. And you can support us on Patreon at richroll.com forward slash donate. I wanna thank everybody who worked hard to produce today's show. Jason Camiello for audio engineering, production, show notes, and interstitial music. Blake Curtis for videoing and editing today's show via Zoom.

DK for advertiser relationships. Radna Swamy, of course, and his team for helping facilitate today's conversation and theme music by Tyler, Trapper, and Hari. Appreciate you guys. I love you. I will see you back here in a couple of days with another amazing episode.

Until then, try to cultivate more compassion, love, empathy, and share that with the world. We need that now more than ever. Peace. Plants. Namaste. Thank you.