The Rich Roll Podcast - Ravi Patel's Pursuit Of Happiness

Episode Date: November 16, 2020

What’s the best way to grow old? Are we over-parenting our kids? And how can I strike the right work-life balance? These are just a few of the questions Ravi Patel was struggling with. So the actor, filmmaker, husband and dad decided to explore how foreign cultures grapple with them. The result is Ravi Patel’s Pursuit of Happiness, a docu-series in which Ravi enlists his friends and family in overseas adventures in search of answers to life’s questions. Perhaps you caught Ravi’s 2014 hit documentary Meet The Patels, a funny and touching first-person family adventure in which Ravi enlists his traditional Indian parents in his search for love, leading him down a rabbit hole into the world of arranged marriages. Streaming on HBO Max, the new show digs even deeper — a poignant and timely deconstruction of American exceptionalism that ventures beyond buddy travelogue tropes. Today Ravi shares his story — and the many lessons learned along the way. Hardly your ordinary actor, this conversation begins with an exploration of Ravi’s unique path. His past life in investment banking. His current interest in health and wellness. His grapple with identity and indoctrination. And his sundry adventures navigating the vicissitudes of Hollywood. We then pivot to the many nuggets of wisdom Ravi has gleaned from his personal journey. And we tug on the questions explored in his Pursuit of Happiness travels to Japan, Denmark, South Korea and Mexico: Why are Americans so unhappy? How can you be a good parent? How do you find work life balance? And how can we responsibly promote inclusion for all? Recorded pre-election, this conversation is equal parts light-hearted and profound — a mix of laughs and uppercase Truths on all things love, partnership, parenting, purpose, and passion. It’s also a friendship origin story. The first of what I anticipate will be more conversations to come. The visually inclined can watch our exchange on YouTube. And as always, the podcast streams wild and free on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. I love this guy and everything he’s about. And I hope you find this conversation as refreshing and uplifting as I did. Peace + Plants, Rich

You know, wanting to be closer to your family is not uniquely Patel. I mean, it's all of us. And I think it's at the core of a big struggle that we're having as Americans right now, which is individualism, privacy, while also wanting to be a part of something that's bigger. And I would argue, like, that's the American crisis that's happening right now, is trying to figure out a way, what are our communities? Is our community our family? Is our community something bigger than family?

Obviously, as a country, we're having an existential moment. I don't know that there's anything more American than the constant need to optimize. It's the need that we all have for more, and it's exhausting. There's never been a more important time in history for people to understand the tenets of essentialism than right now because there's so much noise. If I can keep finding ways to make the pursuit of my own joy and the pursuit of improving my relationships with the people I love, if somehow I can keep making that my work, talk about the greatest privilege in life. It's just so fun trying to figure out ways to do better. And if you can laugh and smile along the

way, I mean, that's, it's just the real juice in life. That's Ravi Patel, and this is episode 560 of The Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the show. Quick reminder, my brand new book, Voicing Change, is now in the wild. A gorgeous Trojan horse that sneaks up on you with its coffee table book aesthetic and photography, but it keeps you hooked with the timeless wisdom inspired from the last eight years I've spent hosting this podcast. I'm really proud of it. It's available exclusively and only through my website. We are shipping globally.

And of course, signed copies are available. To pick it up and to learn more, visit richroll.com slash VC. And while you're there, take a moment to also check out our Plant Power Meal Planner. Thousands of customized plant-based recipes at your fingertips,

access to nutrition coaches and more, all for just $1.90 a week at meals.richroll.com. Did I mention the delightful Ravi Patel is on the show today? Why, yes, he is. Many of you may have seen his documentary a few years back, Meet the Patels. That was my personal introduction to this actor, filmmaker, entrepreneur, and philanthropist. And it's pretty great. It's this funny, touching, first-person family adventure movie that he made with his sister, in which Ravi enlists his traditional and quite charismatic, I might add, Indian parents in his search for love, quite charismatic, I might add, Indian parents in his search for love, which ultimately leads him down this rabbit hole into the world of arranged marriages. However, the main occasion

for today's conversation is Ravi's new limited series on HBO Max. It's called Ravi Patel's Pursuit of Happiness. And it's really fun, sort of zones meets down to earth my mandarin o'leen show travel slash cultural slash self-exploration docu-series in which ravi goes on these cool adventures to places like korea japan and denmark immersing himself and his friends and his family in a variety of cultures to find answers to life's questions. But it's actually deeper than just a buddy travelogue. It's really, I think, at its core, this poignant and timely deconstruction of American exceptionalism. We're brought to you today by recovery.com.

I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care, especially because unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices. It's a real problem. A problem I'm now happy and proud to share has been solved by the people at Recovery.com,

who created an online support portal designed to guide, to support, and empower you to find the ideal level of care tailored to your personal needs. They've partnered with the best global behavioral health providers to cover the full spectrum of behavioral health disorders, including substance use disorders, depression, anxiety, eating disorders, gambling addictions, and more. Navigating their site is simple. Search by insurance coverage, location, treatment type, you name it. Plus, you can read reviews from former patients to help you decide. Whether you're a busy exec, a parent of a struggling teen, or battling addiction yourself, I feel you. I empathize with you.

I really do. And they have treatment options for you. Life in recovery is wonderful. And recovery.com is your partner in starting that journey. When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with

treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care. Especially because, unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices. It's a real problem. A problem I'm now happy and proud to share has been solved by the people at recovery.com who created an online support portal designed to guide, to support, and empower you to find the ideal level of care providers to cover the full spectrum of behavioral health disorders, including substance use disorders, depression, anxiety, eating disorders, gambling addictions, and more. Navigating their site is simple.

Search by insurance coverage, location, treatment type, you name it. Plus, you can read reviews from former patients to help you decide. Whether you're a busy exec, a parent of a struggling teen, or battling addiction yourself, I feel you. I empathize with you. I really do. And they have treatment options for you. Life in recovery is wonderful, and recovery.com is your partner in starting that journey. When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. All right, Ravi. So this one begins with a walkthrough of Ravi's path,

his past life in investment banking, through the world of acting and into his more recent exploration in health and wellness. We talk about his grapple with identity and indoctrination and of course his experiences in Hollywood. But then we pivot to the juicy stuff. Ravi shares priceless nuggets of wisdom

he's gleaned from his own personal journey and his travels by dint of his new show, Pursuit of Happiness. We dig into questions like, why are Americans so unhappy? How can you be a good parent? And how do you find work-life balance? This one is fun, It's lighthearted.

We recorded it pre-election, so no discussion of that. And it's full of uppercase truths on all things love, partnership, parenting, purpose, passion, and many other subjects. I love this guy. I like everything that he's about. And this one is definitely a friendship origin story. I hope you find it as refreshing and as uplifting as I did. So here we go. This is me and my new BFF, Ravi Patel. What's on that laptop? Talk to me. You got like an outline of some shit? You got talking points? I hired a private investigator to dig into your life. I'm gonna expose it all right now.

Wow. It's my crutch. Fucking, I love it. I completely have a brain fart and can't think of anything to say. Yeah, that's fair, that's fair. We do have at least one good mutual friend, that's Ukarsh. Yep.

I texted him the other day to let him know you were coming in. And then I was like, maybe I shouldn't have done that. Because then I figured Ukarsh is probably going to contact you. He did. Which he did, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But not as a result of that. He and I were texting anyway.

Oh, you were? Okay. And in fact, now I'm realizing I still haven't called him back. He called me this morning. I was like, I'll call you in a little bit. And I was like, sorry, it's been a while. Morning, he's like, don't forget, you got Rich Rollin today.

And I'm like, wait, what? That's super funny. I love that guy. And then he gave you what I think is the best compliment I would wanna hear, which is like amazing, normal guy. And those are my favorite kinds. Well, I'll try to keep it normal, I'll try to keep it normal.

I'll try to keep it normal. I feel like you and I, our friendship has gone on a journey. That journey began. We became very close after the documentary came out. We were hanging out all the time. I felt like we were tight. You and I.

Yeah, you and I. And then you disappeared for a while. You pop up here and there. Wait, did you watch it when it came out? Uh-huh. And then I rewatched it the other day because it's been a while. You pop up here and there. Wait, did you watch it when it came out? Uh-huh. And then I rewatched it the other day because it's been a while. When was that, 2007?

When did it come out? No, no, no, no, you're way off. It came out 2014 or 15. Oh, 14. 14 or 15. When you get old, it all blends together. It took place around 2007 or eight or something. Right, because you were making that documentary for a number of years before it came out, right?

Yeah, man. It took us five and a half or six years. It was the hardest thing I've ever done. Yeah. I mean, you know, first of all, my sister and I made it together. And we were both, you know, she had made one documentary before. I had made nothing before. Right.

So neither of us, I think for both of us, it was film school. Yeah. But then on top of that, we're siblings. And I've also found, now I know from other experiences, entrepreneurial and creative, that doing things two-headed are incredibly difficult. Right. Because you end up going head to head on, when you want different things. So it was exhausting. And especially when you add on that we were siblings

and it turned out- And you were living together. We were living together. And I also think she and I, our relationship had not gotten to that point that if you're lucky with, do you have siblings? One sister, yeah. And older, younger?

Couple of years younger. And were you guys always, are you guys close? Not super close. Like we've never been roommates and we don't live in the same city. But would you say that you're friends? Truthfully, if you're being honest. Yeah, we've had ups and downs. We're getting closer now.

Okay, so my sister and I were a lot like, I think normal siblings where we loved each other because we had to. But if I had to be honest now, looking back in retrospect, I loved her, but I didn't like her. And I wouldn't argue that she probably felt the same way about me. And because we were, you know, making that movie is similar to what having a kid in a marriage does to you. Sure. Or starting a business together or anything else. Yes.

It's like a stress test of your ability to work as a team. Yeah. And it tore us up, man. It tore us up. And we fought so much. It was awful. And there was a day where we kind of like were sitting across from each other. I still remember she came over.

And it was to have a talk. And it was kind of like, and I just started crying. And I was like, I'm so tired of hating you and feeling like I'm making you hate me. Like I'm a bad brother. Like I don't, this isn't the life that I want for us. And she started crying too. And it was like, it was a very like sibling,

Jerry McGuire breakdown, breakthrough moment. But it brought you together. Well, that's what I'm saying. I think both of us, we both went to therapy after that. I can say now that as a result of making that movie that we figured out a way. We kind of forced ourselves in the same way that you have to do in a marriage where you have to decide these things that annoy me about the other person that I don't like. You have to find a way to accept them. In the same way that we have to find a way to accept

the things about ourselves. I feel like that has been my journey as an adult, has been learning to love the things that I've always carried shame about and decide that they're part of us. Right, that's the hardest part. Oh, I mean, all of it's hard. To me, they're all kind of different manifestations

of the same thing, which is like acceptance and love. Right, when I went back and watched the movie this past week, it was interesting. First of all, on the subject of your sister, you take like a shot at her about the cinematography. And there's certain aspects of it, just in the past couple of years, like technology has advanced so much

and the cameras have gotten so much better. So there's like a lo-fi aspect to so much of the footage when you go back and you look at it. That's an understatement. But it doesn't matter because the storytelling is so engrossing. Like you're all in from the get-go, but I can see how you know, how like

enmeshed you guys were throughout that process to get it done. Oh yeah, man. Well, actually the visual lack of, the lack of visual quality in the film was a problem. I mean, we got rejected from every major film festival two years in a row. And I think there were two major points of inflection, I think, in making that movie, what it ultimately became. And one of them was realizing that we were trying to make a romantic comedy in a documentary, and we realized that the female love archetype was not actually Audrey. It was my mom. And so that had a big structural impact on the story.

But the second thing was she and I, my sister and I, we did like 32 cuts of this movie, deciding to lean into the essence of the movie, like lean in instead of trying to make it something that it wasn't, which meant, okay, it's our story. Go into the cultural nuances, go into all the specifics, even if it's not relatable, don't worry about the commercial elements of the film. And part of that also meant, hey, this quality, this home video quality of the movie, that's what we have. That's what this is. So let's actually lean into that. Let's call it out. Let's make it actually, instead of an obstacle,

let's make it a strength of the movie. And so we tried to make it. And I realized, and I think over time, it ended up making the story more real and intimate once we decided to accept it. Yeah, and the audience is always right, right? So film festivals aside, ultimately there was an inflection point where it connected with audiences and the audiences were like, this is a good movie and this needs to be in. And then suddenly it's in theaters everywhere. It was a

crazy trajectory once it connected. Thanks for saying that. I'm surprised you noticed that, but that is exactly, I mean, it was, oh man, it was such a beautiful – and to do that with my sister and with my family, like, and it's had an intense impact on us as a family, but also our careers. Right. It really was – it was like the audience brought that thing – like, made that thing happen. Mm-hmm. They talked about the movie. They told you they brought each other, despite what Hollywood was saying

that that movie wasn't, the audience did exactly. It was really cool. And by the way, I'm chasing that juice. The honesty in the storytelling is what rules the day. And looking back on it too, as kind of like a cultural artifact, it's sort of presaged what you see on YouTube now,

like the vlogging culture, because it's so hands-on, handheld, and you're in the moment with these people and you just feel like you're in a relationship. So when I joked with you at the beginning, like I'm just meeting you right now for the first time, but I do feel like I know you. And that's because of the kind of authenticity and the stripped down quality of that project. Well, I feel the same about you from listening to your podcast. I mean, that is- All two of them. Yeah, but you have, I mean, this is, I don't remember if we were going already at that point, but you have an authenticity to you and you're just very accessible, a familiarity. And I think that is

the beauty of this medium. That's what I love about podcasting. I love doing podcasts because it is a rare kind of conversation that I get to have. I actually feel like you and I are the rare, like if these weren't here, we'd probably be having the same conversation. The same conversation. That's the idea. Like if we were just meeting for lunch or dinner, I would be talking about the same thing. But I think that says more about you and I and probably our compatibility conversationally. are unique because they're so focused on,

the two or three people that are there are mutually focused on creating the best conversation possible. And usually when you're hanging out with people, conversation is not so, you're not really working towards a goal of great conversation. You're chilling, you're hanging out. It's just a little more casual.

Yeah, I think that's true. I mean, that's what I'm trying to create here, but I don't know, the audience can be the judge of that. You can be the judge of that. Yeah, we should probably point out for people that are listening or watching who haven't seen Meet the Patels, that it's a story essentially about your search for love

and this journey that you go on with your traditional Indian family back to India on this quest to explore what it would be like if you were to basically get an Indian bride in the context of that tradition, right? Yeah, and then we come back to the States. Yeah, and then we come back to the States and my parents start setting me up with Indian girls around the country through this process that is pretty standard within our community, which is setting me up with other girls who are last name Patel through these things called bio datas, which were matrimonial resumes.

And meanwhile, there was this white girl that I had never told them about, who, by the way, I'm still friends with. That was my big question in talking about the arc of our relationship. I felt like I deserve an explanation because it drops off with you and Audrey and then it picks up with the TV show. And I'm like, wait, you're married and you have a kid?

Like what happened? We gotta talk. Yeah, so did you just find this out? Yeah. Well, when I watched the show and I was like, what happened to Audrey? So it's so funny because when the movie came out, Audrey and I were no longer together.

I mean, it took six and a half years and then you know the process of it getting out and so the audience reaction you know because the the film has like a pretty i don't i wouldn't describe it as a cult following but it's like the people are big fans like there are some really big fans of that movie and when they found out that i wasn't with her the reactions were so like everything from like, first of all, my wife looks Indian, but she's not. And so there's a half Afghan, half white. Yeah. And people who watch that movie would look at her and be like, you fucking sell out.

You dumped the white girl and you went and got your parents' wife. And I'm like, whoa, wait, hold on. First of all, she's not Indian. Second of all, that movie happened at a point in time that was a long time ago. Right. And actually, you know, it's funny because we talked about like, is there a world in which we can, like, we had a lot of ethical conversations as the movie was coming out. Like, would it make sense to add a coda that we've now broken up? Like a postscript at the end.

It must've been weird for Audrey when the movie was in theaters and stuff like that. Yeah, I think it's weird for her the whole time. I mean, she's a private person, but yeah, totally. I mean, she's been an incredible sport. I did this for everyone who was in the movie, like, because they're all friends and family. I let them watch it and say, take out whatever you want. And she was obviously the highest priority.

And so, you know, thank God I had her. She gave me her blessing. But truthfully, she gave me her blessing for that movie. It's a testament to how loving of a person she is because she clearly, I can tell you, she did it purely because she knew what it meant to me and my sister. If she had her way, that movie would never have gotten out just because it's like,

it's like, why would she want to move a documentary about her life? Like, it's so private. But I am glad that she comes off, you know, in the way that she does in the movie, which is- And she's good now? She's always been good with me. I mean, like-

Glad to hear. You know, I'm sure there've been small moments here and there, and there may be resentments that I don't know about, but like, you know, I tried really hard, especially with her to do it in a way that was always with her blessing because like, I always had, my sister and I both always had the opinion that the movie doesn't matter in the scope of life as much as, like, it was just such, it's a big deal for people you love to let you put a camera in their face.

So that always mattered more to us. Yeah. Well, behind the lens, like there's this deep affection and love that you have for your family and its traditions and your parents, which we're gonna get into because they're superstars.

They really are, man. And this sort of openness and humility around this search for love, like this idea that we do things a certain way in America and layered on top of that is this sense of like American exceptionalism, like whatever we're doing is the best way. And you're kind of in real time, like rethinking that or deconstructing it and saying, well, maybe there is something to this Indian way that I'm overlooking, like the humility to kind of set aside,

like your ideas about what might work and what might not work. And you give yourself over to this process. And what ensues is essentially like an analog algorithm, you know, that's similar to the dating apps, but sort of manually administered by this network of Indians. It's not dissimilar at all. It's really not. This is actually functioning exactly like Swipe Left on Tinder. Oh, yeah. Just in a different interpersonal way. Except you have the help of some older Indian women and men. And then you see all these happy people

who've been married. It's the brick and mortar version of Tinder. Right. And you're like, well, I remember you did a podcast with Pete Holmes a while back and Pete was saying that he was rooting for you to marry, to find the Indian woman. And I found myself thinking the same thing.

Like, I want this to work. And then I'm like, wait, like, don't I think this is retrograde? But yet I'm still kind of hoping that it's gonna work out because I see your parents who are so happy, who knew each other for all of 10 minutes before they got married or whatever it was,

and have now been together for 40 years and are full of joy in life and have this beautiful ethic of service and exude gratitude and all the things that we all want. And by the way, now being married for a little while now, my perspective on that whole thing, like I'm even more on their side of the court in terms of what really makes a relationship work.

I was talking to my buddy the other day on the phone, and I was saying that now that I've been married for as long as I have, what I realize more than ever is really all those things that I thought mattered in a partner, they didn't. The things that really matter, in my opinion now, are kindness and loyalty and commitment. And after those three things, I think you can kind of be married to literally anyone. I really feel that way. I think if you have those three things, I think if you have those three things, then you have someone who can be your co-CEO through life.

And it's just a matter of figuring out how to be together, how to love each other, how to see each other, which is all born out of that commitment and kindness. Kindness especially I think gets you more mileage or anything. My wife, my wife and I had like the toughest time the first couple of years, especially with our kid, like having a kid kind of early in our relationship. And it was tough. I thought we wouldn't make it through. But it's because of those fundamental things

that we both had that we made it through those times. And as a result of doing that work, I think we're like a much better team now. By the way, I'm curious. I was gonna ask you if you saw them filmed differently, having just watched it recently versus like, if there was a difference to you watching it the second time at a different point in your life. That's a good question. I mean, I've been married, I've been with my wife now for 20 years and we've got, I've got two stepkids and two daughters. So I'm further down the path on all of this

than you are a little bit. I think when I first saw it, so that was 2014, trying to remember. I don't know if it was that different. I mean, the thing that stuck out for me the most was just like the difference in, like I already mentioned, like in like this sort of video quality now

from what you expect. But in terms of like, in terms of theme, you know, no, I think it holds up. I mean, if anything, it's like, you know, my relationship to it is pretty much the same. Did you, did it make you, and you don't have to have an answer to this, but did it, did it,

did it make you think about your own life in any way? Yeah, well, I think what it did was, and this was the point I was just about to this, but did it make you think about your own life in any way? Yeah. Well, I think what it did was, and this was the point I was just about to make, is it makes you rethink this idealized Western notion of what love is, you know, to kind of echo what you were just talking about. I mean, it's almost a setup here. It's like your partner has to live up to some ridiculous standard. They have to be super sexy. You have to have like passion for them all the time. You have to be compatible. You have to have shared values. They have to be your best friend. They have to be able to be your business part. Like there's so many boxes that have to get checked for you to say, this is the person for me.

And fundamentally, when you look at your parents and you think, well, they didn't go through that rubric. You know what I mean? They took this amazing leap of faith and they figured it out as they went along. So if that's the way it's worked for them and you look at the divorce rates in the developed world, it makes you think like, maybe we do have this wrong.

Like what is really important? And when you talk about kindness and compatibility, like, you know, I think that those things get overlooked and are kind of lower on the pecking order than- Yeah, do they have a cool job? Or are they fun? Yeah, are they hot? Yeah, all those things. Yeah, like this person's not hot enough for me. Yeah, are they hot? Yeah, like this person's not hot enough for me.

Yeah, yeah, or fun or, you know, yeah, I mean. Right, they have to be comedians. They have to constantly entertain you. They have to have a cool, fulfilling career and all this shit that when you're married, you're like, oh, none of that would even matter right now if that was, because that doesn't affect you laying next to each other in bed, you know, just hanging out. It just has no impact on that.

But those things that you just said, kindness, compatibility, those are actually part of that arranged marriage rubric through the values of community first that are embedded. And the reason why like Patel's one of Mario Patel's it's because they believe the same, like they have the same, allegedly the same values that are about community first. Right. There's a commitment. But in America, we don't have that kind of bonded community that you have in India, right? It's like this ill-defined diaspora.

Yeah, like where it's all about individualism. It's a different cultural priority. And what was fascinating about the documentary is how the Patels, when they migrated West, they recreated that network through basically this massive game of telephone and sending around these essentially resumes of the people that are trying to get married

and were able to kind of maintain on some level that sense of being plugged in with each other that they had back home. I would venture to guess that it's actually, I think one of the reasons why so many people gravitated towards it is because the, you know, wanting to be closer to your family is not uniquely Patel. I mean, it's all of us. wanting to be closer to your families is not uniquely Patel. I mean, it's all of us. And I think it's at the core of a big struggle that we're having as Americans right now, which is individualism, privacy,

while also wanting to have, be a part of something that's bigger. And I would argue like, that's the American crisis that's happening right now is trying to figure out a way, like what are our communities? Is our community our family? Is our community something bigger than family?

Obviously as a country, we're having an existential moment. I don't really have- Well, what complicates it is when you juxtapose that against this idea of individuality. Like what's important is like what I wanna do and my success equation and the path that I'm on. And that has to take priority over whatever relationship

I have to my community. Like that's feels backwards to me. It should be the other way around. It does. If we wanna move forward productively. Yeah, well, I think it's because there's like a false, and this is very American, which is this false sense of like thinking

that self-realization and the athleticism of getting to your highest potential in life is a selfish endeavor. I think, at least in my case, I feel like getting to my highest potential as an individual is fully part of my role in my family. It's all about my relationships, about being a better husband, a better father, a better son. And all the people in my culture, like in my Indian culture,

I feel like are really trying hard to be the best versions of themselves while also becoming the best members of their community. Like they don't have to be two disparate things. Yeah, yeah, but I think what's uniquely American is the priority on like the career path. Like that's- Achievement. Yeah, like so when you talk about being

your best self, that really means like, how can I get ahead professionally? How can I be, you know, financially successful? Well, yeah, but I also think that's why like your show exists, is to help people reconfigure that false notion of happiness, right? I mean, I think everything about, I think all these kind of like pursuits of spirituality, mindfulness, meditation, self-help, yoga, like all of this to me is a rebellion that's happening in society right now out of a need to figure out a way to feel connected to each other

and closer to your own purpose. Yeah, but I think a lot of that is motivated by the fact that so many people have pursued the traditional path and then come up against a ceiling with that and realize like, this is not making me happy or I was doing all the things I thought I was supposed to do.

I was like paying attention to all the advertisements and trying to accumulate all the material possessions and climb this corporate ladder only to find out that there's no there there, right? I mean, there's nothing more American. And that creates this crisis. I'm in that crisis, right? I mean, I did nothing more American. And that creates this crisis. There is. Oh, I'm in that crisis, right? I mean, I did an episode about that crisis.

That's what it's all about. I mean, I don't know that there's anything more American than the constant need to optimize. And it is, you know, I was listening to your social media episode on the way here. That's what is at the core of that. Yeah.

It's the need that we all have for more and it's exhausting. There's never been a more important time in history for people to understand the tenets of essentialism than right now because there's so much noise. I mean, specifically the social media thing, I was like, it's a conversation that I think all of us are obsessed with right now. I just made my social media public like a month and a half ago. Oh, really? Yeah. That's interesting. How come?

Because I've always been scared of – like I've never been attracted to social media in terms of – I just have never been a guy that is on there all the time. And I've always seen the toxicity of it. I've known always whenever I've posted things that I check likes. That feels terrible to me. I feel something happening in my brain just when I'm holding my phone. Even if I'm not looking at it, I feel like a freneticism in my brain. And right now I'm addicted to my phone more than I ever have because I have so much work stuff happening. And it's like I'm ready to make big changes in my life for my brain in general, which we should talk about at some point, by the way. And then I made my profile public and I am – like here I am. I have this show.

I have a bunch of things coming out and I have people telling me, hey, you need to do something to get your social media numbers up. They make you look less successful than you are. I'm like, okay, that's literally the reason why I was private this whole time. If I was still private, I wouldn't have to worry about it. But now I have 17,000, 18,000 followers, so I'm at this point where I can't be private. I'm just a weird private.

I was like, should I just buy followers? Let's just buy followers. I don't care. Let's get this game out of the way and move forward. Get a bot forum on board. Yeah. And just weaponize it. I have no problem with it though.

I think the whole thing is so stupid. Anyway, I'm deep in the existential all of it right now. Well, it's about your relationship to it. I mean, you've got this show out right now. So you have a vested interest in trying to make sure people know about it and all of that. And as long as you can create some healthy boundaries around sure people know about it and all of that.

And as long as you can create some healthy boundaries around it, I think it'd be all right. I just wish there was an Instagram where there weren't likes or comments. They should get rid of all of that. I would be so down. Because I do like communicating with the audience and I like hearing back from them. But I don't like the likes and I don't like the metrics side of it at all. It doesn't feel good. Well, that's one thing about having a TV show. Like there's no comment section, you know, below the stream where you can read what people think of it in real time. It's just out there, you know what I mean? And well, let's get to the new show because in many ways,

like it's very related to the original documentary. The original documentary being again, like you go on this quest to answer a question for yourself and you're willing to set aside like your idea of what you think is right. And you're, I think one of your superpowers is just being open, you know, like, let me hear what you think.

Like, maybe I don't have it right. Like, what do you have to say? And you go on these adventures to find answers in different cultures. And it's cool, man. I think it speaks again to this idea that in America, we think we've got all this stuff figured out.

The name of the show is The Pursuit of Happiness. Like, are we happy in America? Like, not really, not really. If you look at the statistics, a lot of depression, a lot of mental illness, so much anxiety and stress now more than ever. So let's go to these other places and see what they're doing.

And I learned a lot. There was a lot of stuff that I didn't realize. Like I was in Copenhagen last summer, like last July. I fell in love with that city. I thought this place is fantastic. That means we were there around the same time. Probably, yeah. It looked like it was in the summer

when you were there, right? Yeah. And everyone's swimming and like laying, you know, sunbathing. It's the best. I was like, this is crazy. Like I'm ready to move here. It's unbelievable.

Bikes and canals and bridges. I'm like, let's go. And then I was all bummed out. You're like, oh, I only enjoyed it because I'm riding with the bikes and canals and bridges. I'm like, let's go. And then I was all bummed out. You're like, oh, I only enjoyed it because I'm white. You know, same thing with like your adventures in Japan. Like I had no idea about the detachment with the young kids and, you know, watching that little boy go on, you know, a grocery shopping adventure by himself.

I was like, that is unbelievable. Isn't that wild? Yeah. That was one of the coolest things we did. And obviously, I'm sure you had the same thought, would never be able to do that here. No. For so many reasons.

One, we're just like, I think the American notions of parenting are so, we've become very protective and fearful. Yeah. But also, I don't know that it's safe. It's not safe. It's not safe. It is a different world.

But I think we've, that pendulum has swung too far. Like Jonathan Haidt wrote a book about this as well. Like there's a lot of conversations happening around this very subject at the moment. That overprotection, you know, is not in service to our kids. It's really bad for them. We have to allow them to have experiences and, you know, skin their knees and fall down. And, you know, I sound like an old man, but like you, I'm older than you, but yeah. And we discussed this in the episode.

It's really important. Ride my bike around and I'd be gone all day and be back for dinner and nobody thought twice about it. Yeah, I mean, I think there's something about the way millennials were raised specifically that has led to a groundswell of overprotective parenting. And it comes at great cost. The cost of it is grit.

The cost of it is perseverance. And another thing I would say is an inability to cope with unfairness. And I see that now in a lot of people who even like a lot of my employees have trouble coping with unfair moments at work. And in my generation, unfairness is actually part of the game, but you don't let unfairness slow you down. Yeah. You know that unfairness is a part of the fabric of life in every great experience. There's a spectrum with these things.

I mean, if you're being sexually harassed or there's some kind of racist behavior, that's one thing, but just having difficulties trying to figure out how to navigate personalities is a different thing altogether. And this war is really being waged in academia where now like an idea that we disagree with is something that needs to be banned

as opposed to sort of entertained and argued against. Like you develop your sense, your value system and your sense of what is right and wrong by, you know, butting up against ideas that you don't agree with and stress testing them. And that's kind of what college is about. Yeah, I totally, I totally agree. And, you know, it's, yeah, it's about the marketplace of ideas, right? The idea that you're going to hear things you like and things you don't like, and by hearing as many different ideas as possible, you're able to discern truth from that.

You're right. That's happening right now in a very big way, and it's disappointing. I mean, I will say the upside of all of that, and I think you kind of alluded to it, is that it also has, out of it is born like a real culture of activism and passion that is awesome. Yeah, it's amazing. So again, it's like, these things are nuanced. It's not a black and white, good or bad thing. Like that's a positive thing that's come out of this.

Well, I think the parenting thing is bad. I'll say that. Yeah, I think the over-parenting thing, I have a huge problem with it. But it's also part of my war at home. But your wife is more on the protection side. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying it out of resentment.

Right. She's reading all the books. This is the way we have to do it. And you're like on a laissez-faire kind of approach. Yeah, I mean, truthfully, she and I believe the same things because we've talked about it so much, but our inclinations could not be more opposite.

Did go into Japan. If my daughter's about to fall on her scooter, I'll give you the example. My daughter's going fast. She's like three now, how old was she? She's about to turn four in November. If she's going on her scooter and I see that she's about to hit something or fall, my inclination is-

Let her fall. Let her fall. I'm not running after her and I'm not really particular, unless it's like something really bad, I'm not going to even try to stop it from happening. My wife is in a full-on sprint and vocalizing and then helping her up. and vocalizing and then helping her up. And we both believe in the concept that you and I just discussed, but our inclinations are such the opposite. And it's something that- But the tension between those two things

probably is gonna produce a healthy kid, right? You need a little bit of both. That's kind of where we end up actually. It's great that you said that because that's kind of, and it's that understanding between us that allows because that's kind of, and it's that understanding between us that allows us to not get pissed off at each other. We should explain what happened in Japan.

I mean, you go to Japan and part of the idea is like, I want to learn a little bit more about parenting and they're doing something very different in Japan where they have extreme attachment when the kids are very young. And literally the baby's attached to the mom's hip 24 hours a day. There's no date nights.

There's no babysitters. Like it's all about the kid. And then like a switch gets flicked at age six and you're like, you're on your own. And they literally, you show this family that sends their six-year-old boy on a track. Like he's got a walk. It's called the first errand.

He has to walk a half mile to a grocery store and basically get the food for dinner and buy the baby wipes. By himself, crossing streets in a city. People seem totally cool with that. Right. Like in LA, like there would be- You'd get arrested.

He would have been picked up by the cops before he got to the grocery store. Oh, and social services would be knocking on the door in five minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And even in the grocery store, Oh, and social services would be knocking on the door in five minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And even in the grocery store, everyone just treated him like a normal kid. Right, that was the funny thing

where you were like the checkout person was like, look, she's acting like this is normal. Yeah. You know? Meanwhile, we're tracking him like we're stalkers because we're making a show about it. But it was, yeah, man, it was eye-opening, that whole thing.

And by the way, strong themes of what we were talking about earlier, it could not be more the opposite in terms of individuality there. And you find that to be the difference with these countries that we see as better countries, like that are more organized or have a stronger sense of community. The kind of dark side in most of these countries is that they're actually that way because they're culturally homogenous or at least ideologically homogenous, which means anyone who doesn't fit in that framework is in some way suffering or oppressed.

To me, that is actually the beauty of what we're going through right now as a country is I feel like we have these minority communities that actually have a voice that are able to fight because in other countries, we don't even know that they're suffering. Here, I think we have a diversity of voices that's actually going through a reconciling of trying to become one. My hope, and I think that we're already seeing this in a lot of ways, is that this ends up being our Arab Spring.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think there certainly is a sense of significance around what's happening right now. And we all saw what happened in the wake of Arab Spring too. There was a backlash against that and it kind of swung the other way. But I feel like we're in a very special moment right now where those voices are being heard and we're reckoning with

how to move forward as a country. It is a crisis point right now. And here we are heading into the election. Who knows what's going to happen? I mean, literally, whoever the show runners are of this crazy television show called 2020 that we're in right now, it's just bananas what's going on. And there's nothing that's off the table at the moment. That's for sure. Are you and your wife, are you guys pretty involved with the election

or is it something that you're passionate about? Yeah, I mean, I'm active. I mean, I think, look, everybody has a different way of being an advocate for what they believe in. And I'm not the one who's like pounding the drum, vote, vote, vote on social media all day long. Like I use this podcast as a platform

to have more nuanced conversations about these kinds of things without outright, you know, telling people what they should or they shouldn't think or do. But certainly we without outright, you know, telling people what they should or they shouldn't think or do. But certainly we need change, you know. Do you believe in talking about your political beliefs? To an extent, you know, I'm reluctant to, you know, I'm not a political pundit and I don't want to make this about politics,

but I think what we're experiencing right now transcends politics. It's about identity, you know, and it does speak to, you know, how we think about this place that we live in as a community and how are we going to cohere when we're so fractured right now and our ability to even have hard conversations has become so difficult and fractured.

Yeah, you know, I'm not big into politics by any means, I never have been. This is the first election where I've decided to try to on this stuff. But to your point, I think this is the first election I've ever felt that is about something that transcends politics. It's about humanity. I think it's about decency. And it's just a scary time. I also think at the core of that is something that I find uniquely American, which is like, I don't talk about politics. American which is like I don't talk about politics and and I think it has a lot to do with not wanting to not not willing to cause a ruckus not willing to know like there's some people who like to talk to talk about politics means it's going to be controversial like why does it have

to be controversial to have uh a different opinion from someone on like you you can talk about wanting to order different things on the menu without, I mean, I guess the point being that someone else's opinion could potentially threaten your own existence, but talking about it is also the only way that you can. It's the only way, it's the only way. I mean, that's something you explored in the Copenhagen episode pretty thoroughly.

Like one of the things that that guy said, I forget his name. He was so smart, the bald dude, the, is that what you're talking about? It was the guy who said, look in Denmark, like we, you know, people aren't shrouding their political ideas like they talk about them. Like it's out in the open, right? And when you start to, you know, kind of,

you know, keep them quiet, that's when they fester and become malevolent. Like everything is kind of out in the open there, for better or worse. I mean, they certainly have problems there, as you saw. But I think what you're able to do is sit with people who see the world very differently and make them comfortable. And whether that's a people-pleasing technique that you've developed as a defense mechanism growing up or just a soft like social touch that allows you to connect with people,

whatever it is, you're very good at that. And we saw that in- Probably both is the answer. The guy like, my favorite line in the whole thing is you're like, you're gonna meet that Syrian dude who's in the government in Denmark. And you're like, this guy like the Bobby Jindal of Denmark, right?

Yeah. And you sit with this guy who has a very different worldview than you, but you're able to have not just a productive conversation, but almost like a fun conversation. Like you made him feel comfortable. Well, I think to have, thanks for saying that,

it's certainly intentional, but also born out of various insecurities and people-pleasing stuff. Well, growing up South Asian in the South, and you talk about your neighbors and things like that, like you had to figure out a certain way to navigate the world. Yeah, I think that's very bad.

Yeah. I think you're right, man. I mean, I think, uh, you know, look,

I grew up in North Carolina, so I grew up in the South and I grew up Brown. I grew up short, uh, all these things that made me want to essentially, I was trying to fit in. Huh? You're not that short.

I'm, you know, I'm cusp of short. I'm five, six and like half an inch. That's not too bad. Thanks, bro. You tall people. You guys just.

I'm not that tall. I'm 5'10". You're 5'10"? 5'11". I'd kill it, dude. I wouldn't. If I was 5'10". All right, keep going.

I wouldn't even be here. I'll tell you what. I'd be way too big. Yeah, you'd be with Tom Cruise up on the big screen. Oh, I mean, 5'10", I'd be the most powerful man on earth. It's only, it's- It's all about height. Yeah, I'd be in like eight sports leagues.

I'd be like things, yeah. Did you play basketball at UNC? Yeah, wouldn't that have been nice? Yeah. Yeah. I played ball a lot back then. I played JV basketball in high school. That was as far as I got. You're a sport.

I mean, you're clearly an athlete. Not an eye-hand coordination guy. Yeah. Like an endurance guy. Yeah, you know, it's so funny that it's almost always two different groups of people. There's the triathletes, then there's the people.

I'm obsessed with sports. In fact, I want to really soon do something big in terms of changing my habits and my lifestyle. And one of the destinations is to make it so I can play sports again. Because I realize spiritually there's just something so special about it. There's something so filling to me of playing sports. Well, you're talking to the right guy. I can help you out with that. Listen, listen, this is what I wanna do, okay?

I'm not even kidding, okay? I found out four months ago that I have ADHD, which is the least surprising thing ever in the history of medicine. And I experienced a lot of brain fog, focus is an issue, I'm not organized, but conversely, like all ADD, ADHD people, which you probably may be as well, very creative, very excitable, all those things.

What I want now, because I'm a father and I want to be able to devote more real estate to non-achievement. And my brain is so constantly opportunistic, not necessarily in the negative way. I'm just always thinking of ideas. I just love it. And now I want to figure out a way to be more passive, to just chill and be present when I'm with my daughter, when I'm with my wife, when I'm watching a TV show or reading a book. Anyway, all that to say, I'm ready to make a big change in my life.

I've been trying these ADD drugs. They're not working. I hate them. And so now with brain power, brain focus, memory, the brain itself being the final destination, I want to do some big wholesale thing. Maybe I get a bunch of my friends big wholesale thing. Maybe I get a bunch of my friends to do it. Maybe it's a social media thing I do. I know that when I turn things

into projects, I do a better job of writing my own narrative within them. Well, season two of The Pursuit of Happiness could be about this. Well, I think it's going to be an audio documentary because I've already kind of started already taping these things. Some of the things I've been doing to research for it. But I think what I'm going to do is change my diet, start to exercise regularly, change my body. I'm going to change my habits as in I want to have a routine for the first time in my life, which I've never had a routine.

And I'll probably take some nootropics and things to help my brain, some nutritional changes. These are all things that I'm assuming are at the crux of who you are and who you've become. Yeah, like you want me to hold you accountable? Because I can do that. Let me tell you something. I would kill to have you hold me accountable.

And you can help me. Can I send you what I think is like a starting point for what the program could be? Yeah. I've had a couple friends I've talked to about this who have helped me kind of put together. But it's all like hitting these big buckets of I want to have – I've always been so admirable of people like you who are able to take such an athletic approach to life in general. But at the same time, I've been fearful that that approach can lead to a mental, like it seems like a lot of people who have that approach to life

are so obsessed with optimizing their lives that it comes at the expense of a sense of peace and chill. I don't know. How do you feel about it? I know what you're saying. Well, there's a whole, like you're kind of referring to the kind of biohacker corner of the wellness community.

Yeah, where it's all, everything is, you're optimizing every second of every day. I'm not really about that. I have a much more kind of Eastern holistic approach to all of these things. And I've done crazy things in sports in the endurance world and things like that. But for me, I turned 54 in like a week. For me, it's all about trying to make sure that I'm showing up

for my life the best that I can in all of these categories as a father, as a business person, as a partner to my wife. And how do we effectively navigate the world in our most authentic evolved incarnation across the board. And I started this podcast for that very purpose. Like I'd reached a point, I wrote a book, shared my story, and I'm like, what's next? I had all these blind spots in my growth that I had to reckon with and confront

and ultimately overcome. But that doesn't mean that the growth stops, the growth continues. Like what else am I blind to? How, you know, what are the other areas that I'm not paying attention to? And, you know, curiosity is fueled like this exploration on the podcast of trying to basically do like an audio version of what you did with your TV show, which is like, how can I be a better human? Like, well, this person over here seems to have an idea or two. Let's go talk to that person. And then synthesizing that, like, you know, over the years, you know, it's a very imperfect thing. And I certainly am highly flawed and have lots of problems, but I'm in a better place now as a result of doing this. So merging, like where I think we're aligned is trying to

figure out how to merge our curiosity and our professional interests with our own growth trajectory. You know what I mean? And use those all together. The problem with that is that then you're always working and then you have to look at that. Well, yeah, my thing, especially because I have this, and you probably have this too, it's like everything I do is actually so personal and purposeful. And so that can be- It doesn't feel like work.

That can be, but that's also a cop-out for always working. Right, are we working right? Like we're working right now. We're working right now. I don't feel like this is work. This, I would say, this specifically is very different. This is not work. This is very different, yeah. I don't feel like this is work. This, I would say, this specifically is very different. This is not work.

This is very different, yeah. I've realized just because I'm older and I'm starting to realize my mortality that I have so many things about what I do that's forward looking. And I want to figure out a way to have better days. Like how was today? Was today fun as fuck? In some way, was it fun as fuck? And that to me is really reframed how I spend my time. Can I ask you this?

And ultimately, by the way, the goal of this conversation for me, we can talk about whatever you want, is I would love for you to make some suggestions on the game plan by the time we're done with this. I wanna first ask you, do you have a routine every day? Do you have specific habits every day?

Like, is there a time you wake up? Are there certain things you eat at a certain time? Yes and no. Yeah, I have like benchmarks that I try to hit every day, but that doesn't mean that I hit them every day. And I try to be a little loose with it. So, I don't create something that's so calcified that I feel shameful if I don't do it.

But yeah, look, I'm self-employed and we're in a pandemic right now. So does it really matter what time I wake up in the morning? Yeah. Yes and no. I wake up when the sun comes up naturally. I don't set an alarm. Then I meditate and I journal in the morning

and then I work out and I try not to schedule any meetings or any conference calls or any kind of work-related stuff that involves me talking to other human beings until after 12. And I try to protect that time for my own creative pursuits and for training and working out and things like that and being with my family.

That doesn't happen every day. You know, there's plenty of times where that gets intervened for various reasons, but that's kind of the general rule. And then the afternoons are for work and, you know, making sure that I'm home with my kids and because I work from home, I'm around them all the time. So the trick is what we were just talking about,

which is that work bleeds into everything. Like you're kind of always working and you're never working. So when are you turning it off? Do you have hard and fast like boundaries around that kind of always working and you're never working. So when are you turning it off? Do you have hard and fast like boundaries around that kind of stuff? Or does it just bleed into everything that you're doing? What time do you go to bed? Between nine and 10.

Do you have a bedtime routine? Do you have a nighttime routine? I sleep in a tent in the backyard. Yeah, right. I do. No, you don't. Yeah, I do. Shut up.

I do. I've talked about this a lot on the podcast. I assumed you would. We can talk about it afterwards. With your wife? No. That's a whole other thing. Talk about the worst fight ever.

How bad are things? Well, I'm in a tent in the backyard. Listen, it's a whole thing. Okay, I won't make your listeners suffer through. I'm happily married. We have a great relationship. But I've had sleep issues and I sleep better outside with the cold air.

And the quality of my sleep is like tenfold better sleeping outdoors. And it began with that. So my wife and I would have this ongoing argument because I like the bedroom cold and she likes it warm. And it was always in the middle where I'm sleeping on top of the covers and I'm sweating and she's underneath all the blankets. And she's freezing and we're arguing and nobody's getting along. And I was like, I'm going outside. And she's like, knock yourself out. And I had an unbelievable night of sleep.

And I was like, well, I'm gonna just start sleeping outside right now. And she's like, that's fine. Yeah, I don't think, yeah, it's so funny. I have a picture of the temperature, the dual zone temperature control in the car on one of my first dates with my wife and it's like 20 degrees apart. It's such a common thing. I have a picture of the temperature, the dual zone temperature control in the car and one of my first dates with my wife

and it's like 20 degrees apart. It's such a common thing. My wife and I are both, I think we both have codependent tendencies and we love cuddling. So that would never happen for us. You could try the ChiliPad, which is this thing you can basically cool.

So your side of the bed can be cooler than the other side. So maybe you could start there. When you side of the bed can be cooler than the other side. What a nice dude invention. When you're journaling, are you doing gratefulness? Are you figuring out, are you planning your day in any way? Like things you want to do or accomplish? It's usually a combination of morning pages, you know, the artist's way,

you've known the artist's way. So it's morning pages lifted from that program and then a gratitude list, typically. Okay, but you're not doing any planning. You're not trying to figure out what you want on your day. No, no, no. When are you figuring out what you want to do out of your day? Like how are you organizing? How are you planning your family or work hours?

Or is there no plan? I'm not a huge planner. I mean, in the afternoon, I'll organize stuff. But that says to me that you're just one of these guys who's like very, like you don't have ADD. I already know that now. Like my whole thing is I can't remember, like I forget things and I'm very absent-minded.

So unless I put together a plan, which is what I do, I have all these systems in place that help my operating system get through the day. You need guardrails, basically. Oh, yeah. I need guardrails. And moderation is something that I've never, ever had. I've never even been attracted to it.

You and me both, brother. I'm the least balanced person there is. Yeah, but you do it out of passion. I do it out of, like, it's like my personality. Like, I have been an intense, I go hard, like, you know, I don't party anymore. But when I did party, I would go hard. I was having the best night ever. When it comes to work, I go hard.

Everything, like, even with diet, I go hard. Like, last night, guys came over to watch. I set up a football situation outside. You know, I ordered everything. So, do you experience shame for having that character disposition? So that is something that at this point in my life, I've come to accept as part of who I am. But it's still something in terms of like my mental and physical health that I want to figure out how to

harness in a way that's good for me. And so that's why I'm talking about doing something that's extreme where I'm going to eat clean for, you know, I'm thinking I'm going to do like a three to four month eat clean as hell. Nothing processed, maybe like pescatarian, which I already am pescatarian. We already don't eat really much. We don't really do a bunch. My wife is so all into health and wellness. So we already have a pretty clean situation. But I know that I need to do something that has rules to it

because the day-to-day, like the discipline that is required to really have a moderate approach to life is just something I don't have. And so I know I don't, I used to have a ton of shame. But if there were some hard and fast rules set up that were easy to follow and that were simple, you could follow them. Yeah. And does there have to be a goal? Well, that's a good question, man. And by the way, just to the shame thing, I've carried shame my whole life about it. Only recently have I begun to accept it. Yeah. Because I would make to-do lists my entire life and be behind schedule within the first two hours of waking up.

Like hundreds, if not thousands of times I've done this and failed. Sorry, what did you just ask me? Do you need a goal? Does it have to be, do you have to be driving towards some result? Or can you just follow like some kind of protocol for the sake of it because it's in your best interest? I don't know. I've not thought about it that way. I mean, I know that one thing that I think about a lot are goals and priorities. I think about that a lot in like, you know, and so I think one could

argue that you could shift the goal to being like one of the goals that I'm, one of the things that I'm trying to reprioritize is how I spend my day and who I'm like what I'm literally doing with my time and am I enjoying life and so I I guess the answer is no okay I have such a like my brain like I am so like I have a very businessy opportunistic brain like I'm always I just am always thinking about productivity and I'm thinking about, like my nickname with my friends growing up is the enhancer because I was never just happy with what we had there. I had to,

you know, if they're all waiting for me to watch a movie together, like I remember one time, I think that's where the enhancer came from. It was like, we were getting ready to watch something together on Sunday night in college. And I'm like,

wait, wait, wait. And I ran out, wait, wait, wait. And I ran out the door, went down to the liquor store down the street. I came back with like a bag full of like 20 different sodas and snacks and put blankets on everyone.

And my buddy lost his cool. He's like, it's fucking enhancing. Right, right. What do you think that's about? I mean, is that, do you think that you, so on some level, I suspect. It's very Patel. I'll tell you that right off the bat.

It's very Patel. You find value, like you feel like you've got to show up in that way in order to be accepted or approved. Yeah, I'm sure there's some psychological thing where I'm like, where it's like, that's my like hero complex, right? Where it's like, oh, I'm the one who's gonna make everything better.

Right, and then everyone's gonna wanna hang out with me and at my house all the time. Yeah, probably, I'm sure there who's gonna make everything better. Right, and then everyone's gonna wanna hang out with me and at my house all the time. Yeah, probably. I'm sure there's something about it. Yeah. It's an interesting thing. Like, how do you channel and direct like the extreme personality?

Like I had, do you know this book, Atomic Habits by Scott James Clear? It just got recommended to me three or four days ago. I was talking about the power of habit and my buddy brought that one up. Right. I had him on the podcast. The book is amazing,

but he talks a lot about how it comes down to values, like being clear on what your values are and then aligning, not being goal-oriented, but aligning your actions so that they're consistent with those values. And rather than setting these extreme, creating an extreme situation that you're never gonna be able to live up to and then feel bad about like two weeks in when you fall short, it's about these tiny little tweaks that you can make that then you develop momentum around, right?

So you set yourself up for success by taking tiny bites as opposed to bite, you know, like we want to like say it's got to be like this and it's going to be amazing, you know? And then we're like, we burn out, right? It's an unsustainable energy source when you channel that extreme, you know, nature in 20 different directions at once, like you're not going to succeed. Which is me in a nutshell. Right. But at the same time, you know, me relating to you very much on that, like, you know, me relating to you very much on that, like tendency to wanna be all in on like any given thing at any given moment, the idea of taking those little bites just is not appealing.

You know, it's like, I need it to be crazy in order to get me excited and enthusiastic about it. And I've had to like accept myself for that and just try to figure out like some kind of workaround to do it. You know what I mean? Not that I have the answers to it, but- No, but you'd very much seem like you're on the other end of it. I mean, when I hear you talking about your lifestyle and your life in general, it's very much, there's envy. I'm like, oh,

I would love to get to that point within whatever my own version of that is. But there seems, there's something very soothing about the way you described your life. Yeah, there's a lot of chaos in my head though. What do you wanna happy about in life right now? I mean, I'm still very ambitious and very driven and it's difficult for me to just be present and like gratitude is a practice.

Like I'm also long time in recovery. So I have like my alcoholic tendencies that flare up and my resentments and my character defects that I'm, you know, it's whack-a-mole like every single day. And if I'm not actively participating in my recovery by dint of journaling and gratitude lists and my, you and my service and involvement in the recovery community, I can quickly get derailed.

So, then it's like, I gotta do all this shit just to like feel okay during the day. Like how many hours does this morning routine have to be so I could just be in the world? And then I have to come back to just gratitude. Like, it's okay. Like, everything is okay right now. Like, I don't wanna get caught up in being irritable

about the fact that we can't travel right now because it's a pandemic. Like, I have no control over that. But the amount of effort that I have to put into my process in order to be grateful and content and present in my day is quite a bit. And then not being resentful of all that work that I have to do to feel that way. Like when I'm watching your TV show to bring it back to it, you know, my hope was that like, you're going on these amazing adventures. You return, you edit the show, you put it out, and then it all becomes

about how many people are watching it. Like, is it going to be a success? But truly the success is dictated by the value of just having the experience. Like we're going to go to this place and we're going to meet these people and like, how fucking cool is this? Right. And I'm going to learn from it. And like the reception that that will have with the broader public is none of my business. I have thoughts on that, but just so I understand the point you're making, because you were making a point about your own life. Being able to be content with- Not being so concerned with the ends.

Right, not being result-oriented. Yeah, yeah. Like we're having this podcast right now. Like how this will be received when it gets published is none of my business. I don't wanna get caught up in that. I just wanna be able to enjoy the experience of sitting across from you right now.

And that's all that this is about. Well, I think you can aim for things in life without necessarily ever getting there. And I think, look, my show is actually a great example of it because that came out of like meetings at CNN. It was right after Bourdain had passed away. Right. It was set up at CNN originally, right? It was set up at CNN. Which is why there are these weird ad breaks. Yes, exactly. That's exactly why. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it happened. So I met with them maybe a few weeks after Bourdain passed away.

They were looking to meet with new talent. And when they said, hey, we wanted to give you a small amount of money to go make a pilot, they pretty much said, go do whatever you want. And the only thing they wanted for sure was that it had to have like this international culture stuff that Bourdain show had. But obviously, I'm not a food guy. And I thought long and hard, like, what is the show? that had to have like this international culture stuff that Bourdain show had. But obviously I'm not a food guy. And I thought long and hard, like, what is the show? Obviously I'm thinking in terms of what could I possibly offer the world

that they would want to watch. But I really started going towards, okay, what is something? Because I've done so many, I've been involved with, you know, I've started companies. I've been involved with so many failed TV shows. I'm at this point in life where I know

that things are gonna get canceled, things are gonna go away. We may or may not reach the top of the mountain here. And I was very fortunate when I got this opportunity to think to myself, okay, what's the version of this show where no matter what happens to it, it will have been one of the best experiences of my life. That was why I decided every episode,

someone in my life is gonna travel with me. Right. Because that's scalable. I would do that forever. Someone that I'm close to, I'm just getting closer to, as opposed to traveling alone and being away from people I'm close to. Yeah.

No, okay. So that was a good starting point. Another thing was, okay, like what if somehow every one of these trips was a life-changing journey? Like I think back, like it actually, it's a trip. I don't talk about the episode of the show. I talk about the trip I took with this person in my life

and it's coming up at dinner just because it affected how I'm living today. Right. So that was what I chased. And I only knew to chase that by the way, because of Meet the Patels. I was like, how can I get that same juice in a show? That show, Pursuit of Happiness is very much

me doing something specifically because of the thing I'm doing. And you're trying to solve the problem that you're having in that moment. What's top of mind for you that you are looking for answers to? Actually, I literally picked the episodes based on conversations I was having in therapy, which I also taped in my therapy sessions. At one point, I was thinking about putting those moments in the show, which maybe if I get to do a second season, I will. But I will say also, I mean, it's not entirely like right now, like the show has been out for a little over a month now, and I'm very anxious because I want to keep making the show. And so there is a little bit of that still. I'm like, oh my God, I want to

make this show forever. But I also think what makes the show something I'm proud of is because in earnest, it was, you know, something that was authentic to me. And that's the reason to do it. And also that's the reason it works because that comes across. And I think it's also interesting. Same for your show, by the way. I mean, and we're so privileged to be able to do this. Oh, unbelievably so. You know, unbelievable. Yeah, let's check our privilege, right? Yeah, I think. I mean, 99.9% of people. Yeah. Also, I think it found the right home in HBO too, you know, prestige kind of television aside,

for it to be on a streaming platform as opposed to cable television, I think in this moment right now is good for the show. I think if I get a second season, you'll be right. If I get a second season, I think, in this moment right now is good for the show. I think if I get a second season, you'll be right. If I get a second season, I think you'll be right. The thing with CNN was I was like definitely going to get a second season. And there's like a – just from a business perspective, there's a brand halo to having a show being talent on CNN. Yeah.

But I would – I think you're going to – It is with HBO though. Yeah, but that's if I get a second season. Because I think if I get a second season, then I'll really get to make the show I want to make. Keep in mind, I only had four episodes of this first season. That show in that season of, look, I'm really proud of it. But I think in retrospect, if I get to make more seasons, I think the first season will look like a B minus compared to – like I think season two of this show could be literally I think three to four times better than what I made. Just because you learn so much. Right.

Anytime you do anything for the first time, I have such a stronger sense of creatively what I would do and how I would shoot it and how I would produce it and where I would go and how I would even have these conversations. How did you choose the locations? It was very, you know, very like TV nitty gritty. Like it started with literally like prioritizing the biggest questions that I'm thinking about in life and very much through combing through. Like I had one conversation with my therapist specifically to talk about what are the things, what are the best conversations we've had over the past, you know, two years. You know, so that was, it started with subjects and then I'd look into subjects, but I was just reading a lot of books. Okay.

And then it was very TV. Like we're, I'm sitting down with our, with our team and, you team and they're going off and doing research and finding cool places to explore these questions because of something interesting culturally. Some contrasting way culturally usually, fascinating way that they're addressing this question. Sometimes it's because they found a cool person. And then you're looking at it on a very practical level of like, we don't have a ton of days to shoot these. We can't be flying all over the world. When you went to Japan, did you go to South Korea? We have Japan to Korea. So, you stayed and did knock those both out, I assume. I went to Denmark. Yeah, we did Mexico first

because that was like Mexico. So So it was a one-off. We were able to just fly down there, do that episode, come back, which is great. Okay. Then a few weeks later, I went on a long trip, which was Denmark to Japan and then South Korea. And South Korea, you know, that theme being work-life balance. Was the Death Cafe the hook for that though? Was that what was discovered? Was that the reason that you went there?

I mean, Korea was very much, I think, tacked on because I knew I wanted to do Japan. And so, and it turned out, I don't know that there's a better place to have a conversation about obsession with achievement and optimizing every minute than, you know, than Korea. Right, I mean, you could have done that in Tokyo also. Could have definitely done it in Japan for sure.

I agree. Yeah. But yeah, the Death Cafe was definitely one of the early things where we're like, okay, that's definitely in. I thought that was the coolest. Funny enough, I actually already write my eulogy every three to four years as an exercise to figure out what my goals are. It's like-

So yeah, like explain to people- That scene, by the way, is one of my favorite scenes in goals are. It's like- So yeah, like explain to people- That scene, by the way, is one of my favorite scenes in this series. It's incredible. And your boy, Matt, I mean- Have you met him? I'm surprised you don't know. No, no, you know, he looks familiar

and I'm sure we know some of the same people. He's an impressive dude. I mean, you should have him on the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I was thinking. I was like, that guy would be with Omaze and all this stuff that he's done. Oh, he is one of the most interesting people.

And that crazy story about what happened to him physically. Like, was it a heart failure? It was complete organ like shutdown. And we had to fly in this machine that replaced his heart. It all came out of stress of some gastrointestinal issue and the stress was so significant that it caused complete organ failure of i think four major organs including the heart he was literally dead for four and a half years his heart was connected to a machine that replay called an ecamo machine of which i

guess there were only 15 or something. So one had to get flown in. And it was like this whole, like the story is just so miraculous. The extended version of his story is one of the most incredible things. Like getting through one in a million probabilities over and over again. There was a point where one of our friends

who works in the ER at the hospital, who was always kind of keying us in and is a very pragmatic person, had told us like, just so you know, it's extremely unlikely that he's going to make it through this. And we had that moment a few times and it was one of those things where it almost felt like television because like the doctors and nurses were crying when he made it. Because it was – and people, everyone, it's apparently one of the great stories that now is told. He's young, like a young fit guy.

He didn't have like comorbidities or anything like that. Like how is he? He is like the Tim Ferriss like prototype guy. Yeah, he does everything. Yeah, he's tall. So you bring him to South Korea and you do the death cafe thing. You should explain to people what that is.

But then it's like, this guy's already done that. Like, does he need to do this again? But it was very emotional for him. Yeah, it was. I mean, so the death cafe is, so South Korea for anyone who's listening is, you know, kind of one of the greatest economic comeback stories of the world from the last 60 years.

Extremely poor country that became productive. But the kind of downside of it has been systemic levels of workaholism leading to depression and suicide at unprecedented rates. And so the country is having to do unique things to get people to work less and also find happiness. So there's these new rules. They're in the workplace in terms of how much people can work. We went down this bridge that was called the suicide bridge where they have these inspirational messages because it's near their Wall Street where a lot of people

commit suicide. And this bridge has inspirational messages on it and pictures of food, which is the most fascinating thing ever. My whole thing with that was, I was looking at it and I'm like, it doesn't look that high up. Maybe it was higher up. The bridge doesn't look high up. It's high up. The way it looked on TV, it didn't look like it.'s high up yeah it is the way it looked on on

tv it didn't look like i was like it looks like you could jump and be fine well maybe maybe i'm sure there's a small percentage of people who just made a poor made a bad call but yeah um the food thing was fascinating because it did make me realize like oh yeah food is something like food that brings them joy. They're going to not jump now. That's so weird. But I think food, I think it's more than that. I think food is nostalgic. Right. It makes them think of their childhood. Yeah. If you think about it, that's our, our food and music are very similar in that sense. They're connected to memories. And then one of the weirdest things I think, and kind of cool is

this death cafe, which is just like a cafe. You walk, it says death cafe on the door, you walk into a lobby, you pay, they give you these forms where you're supposed to write your eulogy. And then a dude dressed as the Grim Reaper came and got us. It's a huge complex too, right? Like how many giant conference rooms are there? That was one of the funniest things to me because I'm like, again, I think in such business terms, I was like, what's the four wall profit on this place? Like rent.

The square footage here is insane. So yeah, the dude is a grim reaper came and got us. We had to take pictures for like to put on our caskets. It's like headshots were taken. Then we go into this room where this guy talks to us about, you know, the meaning of death and what the experience is of us, you know, fake dying. Then we're led into this other room

where there's, it's like caskets, tons of them. And do you see how many caskets were in that room? It was crazy. So they must have like do this for corporations and they bring in like a lot of people at one time. Must be, must be. Because there was a lot of caskets in there. And then, yeah, we laid in these caskets for like 12 minutes.

By the way, I hotboxed myself when I laid in mine. The door closed and I farted. Oh, you did? Nice. I'm not kidding. And I wanted to talk about it in the show, but people felt it was tasteless. I don't know why, but yeah. You still came through with the comic relief i did yeah uh but it was actually it was it was wild man i mean it's actually why i already do it in my life because it really when you when you really visualize being at your own funeral and what the people like who's there why you care that they're there, what they're saying about you.

It's quite centering. It helps you cut out a lot of the crap that we spend our time thinking matters. And Matt's of course, it was so emotional. How long did you lay in the coffin? It must've been like 10 or 15 minutes. And then you come out and then you have to read your eulogy aloud. Yeah.

Or this letter. Yeah, and Matt's letter to your loved one. How beautiful was Matt's? Yeah, and I was thinking, you know, he's had this near-death experience already. Maybe he's, you know, kind of like he's used to that. He's like connected to those emotions more than most people. But still, you know. Yeah. It was like heavy.

You know, so, and that just by coincidence, that trip happened a year to the day of that moment in his life. Oh, wow. It had only been a year? It had only been a year and he had spent, you know, 12 months processing that moment, not just dealing with it, but processing it. So, yeah, you're right. It was top of mind, but it was also was a year of that. So it was, I think he was like at the peak, like moment of it psychologically and emotionally. And to revisit it that way, It was really powerful, man.

And it actually is very, it was also very us because he and I have, I think, a very beautiful friendship. He's like a brother. Look, I'm like this with my guy, I'm like obsessed with my guy friendships and with my male friendships especially. And Matt and I have just, we've experienced so much life together in such an intense way through work, but also through fun.

He and I have done, we've been to Burning Man together. We've done all these incredible trips. I mean, we used to throw these bus parties together in LA with double-decker bus. Like we've had, we've gone through all these phases of life and have also been with each other through the toughest moments in life. So it was very, he's the only friend that I really regularly write love letters to and he writes them back to me. That's sweet. He started as an actor too, right? Yeah. He had a little stint as an actor, but then he like went to business school

and started this amazing company. Yeah, I mean, when we became friends, he was already kind of on the way out like from that. But yeah, that was how we became friends was actually because a mutual friend of ours who was his roommate, he wanted to buy an Audi and his friend emailed me. And I guess Matt still has the email.

I guess within like 45 minutes, he received like a five-page consumer report from me. Very passionately trying to dissuade him from buying an Audi A4 or any German vehicle. But then he made a web series for Funny or Die that he was a co-creator of. And they cast me as one of the leads. Oh, I got it. And yeah, he and I were honestly just best friends from that moment on. Are you really close to all your guy friends? Do you have a lot of guy friends?

I mean, I have some really good friends from college. Not that many of them are in LA though, at Stanford. Okay. He went to Stanford. Oh, he did? Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah.

I'm so much older. I wouldn't have known. We wouldn't have overlapped. No, you wouldn't have overlapped. You said 54, you said? Mm-hmm. Yeah. He's 44, I think, 43.

You have a really, like, you've had a really unique path into and throughout the entertainment industry. Like, you started as an investment banker. And then kind of like, you've always had these hustles on the side. Like, you've got this bar company and you started as an investment banker. And then kind of like, you've always had these hustles on the side. Like you've got this bar company and you started this magazine. Like you fell into acting almost accidentally, it feels like.

Yeah, you know what? Like, okay, so the investment banking thing happened because I just hadn't spent a minute thinking about my life. Okay, so I went to college. I went to Chapel Hill only because all my friends from high school were going there. And I pretty much drank and played basketball. Like, that's all I did.

Right. And I was smart enough to, like, get Bs on tests, you know. And I was a big cheater, high school and college. Huge cheater. In fact, I was, like, kind of like a Ferris Bueller cheater high school and college huge cheater in fact I was like my fair I was like kind of like a Ferris Bueller type in high school and you know

talk about like that was my hero thing like I was providing exams and stuff to people and I always had copies of everything were you also like

the class clown guy like were you the comedian back then I wouldn't say I was we'd have to ask one of my friends I mean I'm still

my high school guys and I were all still best friends. I don't know. I don't know that I would say that I was like a class clown. I was definitely funny, I think. And, you know, I was vocal. I was very social. You know, like I was like my class president every year. I was very concerned with getting people to like me for sure and I would credit realizing that to becoming the person I am today which is like I completely changed my values when I realized that that was kind of vapid and that I wasn't focusing on the people I love the most

and now I've gone kind of extremely in the other direction but yeah I don't think on the people I love the most. And now I've gone, you know, kind of extremely in the other direction. But yeah, I don't think I was so... Were you? No, definitely not. What were you like in high school? Quiet, insecure to myself. And what do you think, what complexes, one of the best conversations I've ever had in therapy

was that you, the kind of, all your kind of complexes in adulthood and your main aspirations in adulthood, like more often than not, barring trauma, stem from your teen years. Yeah. So what would you say would be the things from your high school years that you're compensating for today? Wanting to be accepted. Like people pleasing is a big thing. You know, wanting to be, like I was always on the margins or on the outside and the cool kids always seemed inaccessible.

And so this podcast is a giant compensation mechanism to show that I can sit across from like cool people and be like part of the club. That's probably, there's probably a lot of truth to that. Were you nerdy? Pretty nerdy, yeah. Yeah? Pretty nerdy. Were you studious?

Studious in high school for sure. And I was an athlete. Obviously you went to Stanford, what am I saying? What sports did you play? Swimming. Cross country swimming. No swimming, yeah. And swimming was like the first drug of choice and that had nothing to do with school.

That was outside of school. And that was like my place to hide and escape, but also served me well, right? So it was all about that for me in high school. And then I went to Stanford and the swimmers were the cool kids at Stanford. So that was like a whole different thing. God, talk about a kingdom of nerddom when the swimmers are the cool people, Jesus. I that was like a whole different thing. Talk about a kingdom of nerddom

when the swimmers are the cool people. I know, right? Like how bad does it have to be that the swimmers are cool? It's us and the ultimate Frisbee guys at the top. Is that when you started drinking, Evan? Yeah, and then drinking entered the picture and then it was like game on. And then it was insanity for the next 10 to 15 years.

And I got sober at 31. That makes sense. I lived in New York City and had like an amazing time there and went crazy. What did you do in New York? Worked in a law firm. And then I was like a PA. I was like a PA on movie sets for a little bit. What kind of law?

Were you doing M&A stuff? No, I was like a paralegal. And then I went to law school after that and in New York in upstate New York and then what did you practice when you were and then I was a labor and employment lawyer for a couple years in San Francisco and then I moved down to LA to be an entertainment lawyer I worked at a big firm in Century City and then kind of did entertainment law on my own entertainment transactional work so I was like working with a lot of like Sundance filmmaker types starving because none of them have any money and couldn't pay their bills right so it's so

funny though because you know the story you just told it's like all of it makes sense like like alcoholism you know much like uh you know an obsession with work you know they're all um attempts at power like and I could see in your narrative, it sounded like, okay, here's a guy who's trying to get, who didn't feel like he had power and is seeking it externally. In your narrative that you just told, I don't know that it's true. Didn't feel accepted, had difficulty making friends, was trying to figure out where I fit in. Yeah. And so all of a sudden you're chasing status.

Yeah, 100%. And that's what I've been chasing, I think, in a great, not consciously, but subconsciously, I think that is what I was chasing for a very long time. And I only recently have started to figure out ways to deprogram that for myself. It's actually, we're gonna leave, we're gonna move out of LA.

Oh, you are? Yeah. You're going to move back to North Carolina? So we rented a place in Nashville for six weeks starting in December. So we're going to take a road trip east. And then after Nashville, we found this neighborhood

in this area of Franklin, where kind of everyone's moving, I think. It's at Williamson County it's incredible schools but I also am just obsessed with living in like these utopic communities where everyone's on bikes and there's lots of like there's tennis and golf and

you know just fun family stuff happening so we found like a community like that, that we rented a house in for six weeks. And then I think we're gonna do the same thing in Chapel Hill, Raleigh, maybe Charleston. And we're basically shopping for a future home.

And I think we'll probably move. I feel like we'll probably end up in Nashville is my guess. But also, I mean, this is not unrelated to what we did in the show. I mean, we're seeking simplicity. We're trying to bring our overhead down. I'm trying to get away from the achievement culture, especially for my daughter. I don't want to raise her around so much achievement, which LA is so intense on. But truthfully, social media is the worst. Unfortunately, the worst of it is on social media. And also because both sets of grandparents live closer to there.

So it's actually a full culmination of the first season of my show. And you can continue to do what you do. You don't have to be here anymore and you're established enough. I also am one of those guys that I don't need to do like if my entertainment career ended tomorrow I'd be fine. I've never

needed. Well that's a maturity. That's progress, right? Well, I've never- Like not defining yourself by- Well, that I've always had. Where you fall in the pecking order of the entertainment business. Well, that I've always had in terms of like,

I've always felt like a Swiss army knife in terms of creativity and achievement. In fact, I would say if there is a fault that I have, it's maybe an obsession with projecting the image that I can do anything at the last minute or I can do anything, period. Right, but that's an ego thing. Yeah, maybe, yeah.

There's like, you see that a lot in addiction and recovery, like this idea, like I can do it all. Like I can still party and still show up and like excel in all these other areas. And you have to really like dismantle the ego around your attachment to that notion. Yeah, you know, no, totally. That's all definitely there for me.

Yeah, that, totally. That's all definitely there for me. Yeah. That's interesting. Well, being close to your parents, obviously that's an important thing to you. I mean, we didn't even talk about your parents that much, but they're so endearing on screen. And I know you've talked about this a lot,

but they're like superstars. They are, dude. You were smart to make the first episode of the show. Let's go back to the parents and make it about them because you just want to know them more and see more of them. And your dad is one of the most expressive faces I've ever seen. It's incredible. Yeah. I did Adam Carolla's show when I was doing Price for Me, the Patels. And he said the funniest thing about my dad. He said, he said exactly what you said. He goes, you know, like if I were to do a cartoon of your dad, I would just like use his face.

Yeah, he doesn't need. He's already there. Nothing needs to be exaggerated. Are you close to your parents? Not in the way that you are. Like I love my parents. I'm really close with my dad right now, but they live in Washington, DC,

which is where I grew up and I don't see them that much. And this was another thing that you talked with Pete Holmes about. Like, he was projecting onto you, like his frustration with his lack of closeness with his nuclear family. And I experienced a little bit of that myself,

like almost jealousy, like, oh, you're so, there's so much functionality here. And I'm sure you have your issues that you explore in the documentary, but there's like, there's such a strong bond and respect and love. And like when you're with your parents, as much as you're struggling with the ideas

that they're presenting you with, you're there for it. Like you're with them and you're with your parents, as much as you're struggling with the ideas that they're presenting you with, you're there for it. Like you're with them and you're patient and you're listening. And, you know, that love is real. Yeah. And it's uncommon, I think. It is. Yeah. And whether it's Meet the Patels or the first episode of this show, I've put them in a few things actually.

whether it's Meet the Patels or the first episode of this show, I've put them in a few things actually. Being able to see your parents as characters in a story actually gives you a very beautiful detachment from the usual dynamic and lens through which you view them. And I hope that you or anyone who's listening to this would get a chance for anyone that you love or anyone that you want to be closer to, that you have some way to see that person in the full 360 way that I was able to see my parents by having them be characters in a story. I would never have known really that my parents are so special. Or I don't know that I would have ever been able to know that,

I don't know that I would have ever been able to see them as kind of complete humans in the way that I do now had it not been for the kind of unique journey that we've been on together through storytelling. Yeah. But you, but I would- And also so many people come up to me and say what you said, how often do you get that opportunity? Yeah.

I would disagree to the extent that clearly you identified that in them before you even did the documentary. No. Really? No. So that kind of blossomed through that process. I mean, for a lot of people, it's when they have kids. My sister and I did not think about that document.

Like we didn't think about it really at all. I mean, I think lot of people, it's when they have kids. My sister and I did not think about that document. Like, we didn't think about it really at all. I mean, I think it's reflected in the filmmaking. I think I... Well, there's an expectation or the easier way would have been like in the documentary, to handle their perspective from a place of judgment as opposed to openness. Yeah. But I would argue that that is more of a character trait that she and I have. It's very much a result of our parents and who they've turned. We knew when we were making that movie that anyone who's kind enough to let us tell their story through us, that we were going to show them in the most beautiful light possible. And we weren't going to be slightly exploitive.

We were going to be honest, but we're going to be tell the story in a way, like the most beautiful feeling in life, and I've experienced this in marriage, is when someone you love sees you in the way that you've always wanted to be seen. And I remember feeling that for my wife where she gave me some compliment on myself

and only after I received it did I realize, oh, I've always wanted that compliment. And I think we wanted to compliment everyone in the movie in the way that they wanted to be complimented. So that was more of a choice in life and story that we made. But there has to be- Very little to do with my parents. But in order to do that,

there also has to be a willingness to show the full spectrum. Like when your mom finds out about Audrey, like she has a really hard time with it. And I wouldn't have been surprised if she had said, I don't want to be in the documentary. Like, I don't want, I don't want people to see me in this way. Well, there's more to that. So, so first of all, that the whole reason animation exists in the movie is because we were trying to figure out a

way to tell these big moments in the story that we, well, I mean, sometimes we didn't, we weren't able to capture it, but more often than not, like telling my parents about Audrey is animated. And that's because we ethically were not willing to put a camera in my parents' face in this big moment. So how do we make these moments? It would have felt exploitive anyway. It would have felt exploitive. So animation came out of like, how can we make these fuller instead of feeling surrogate? The reason why my parents were okay with the movie

was because they didn't think it was a real thing. I mean, nobody thought it was a real thing. They didn't know what like, like nobody knew. Like there's like these two idiot kids who like we really wish were doctors are bumbling around with this camera because we really don't know what they're doing.

And they're making this thing. And then there's like, there's various cuts and everyone in our life, including our parents, when you make a movie for that long, they're thinking this isn't a real thing. It's like that friend who's always saying he's working on a script. Right. It's like that.

That's when my parents, when we finally showed them the movie, which wasn't until the very end, they didn't see it, okay? Nor did we ever have a confidence to show it to anyone really, till that final moment. I still remember my sister and I,

on the other hand, we had the kitchen door closed in that same place that Meet the Patels is filmed in. And they're in the living room, we're listening to them with their ears against the door. So you left the room so they could have that experience

without you being- Yeah, yeah yeah yeah and you hear them laughing and they're making these comments you can hear it and it was such i mean when i can't describe the feeling and it wasn't joy for me at least it was relief because right man and i don't even know that the relief was about wanting to make my parents happy and not disappoint them. I think the relief was, I just spent so fucking long making this movie.

I hope it's okay. Yeah, if they had said, look, we're not comfortable. Yeah, then I'm like, oh God, I can't do this anymore. I gotta get out of this apartment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Given the severity of their reaction to you possibly being involved with a red-haired American girl, what was their response when you walked away from investment banking and said, I'm going to be an actor as a traditional Indian? We were at a – it was around the holidays and we were at a Waffle House in South Carolina on a family trip to somewhere when I told them that I had been laid off.

And all I told them was, hey, I've been laid off. The Bears have made the playoffs for the first time in 10 years, so I'm going to go to that game in Chicago. And I don't know what I'm doing after that, but I think I'll probably head to Utah for the winter Olympics and work at a ski resort. That was kind of, I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do from there. So that was scary in the way I think it would be for any parents. Right. You thought your kid was okay. And now you realize he's not at all. And so, you know, the acting thing, I fell into it. Like I, I don't know, conscious, I think subconsciously I've maybe always wanted to do this kind of stuff. But yeah, I ended up in LA because my sister was here.

She had left her job in finance to pursue writing. And I was staying with her and I was bartending. I was teaching SAT classes. And, you know, I got asked to do something and all of a sudden I had a career like a couple months later. It was crazy. Wow. Yeah. What do you mean you just had a career all of a sudden? What does that mean? Like, I never actually remember what order of events things here happened in, but like my friend had, my sister had a friend who was a casting director who asked me to audition for a commercial that I didn't get.

But her, the woman who owned the casting agency was like, hey, you're really good. You like, let me help you get an agent. That happened. And then also something that happened was my sister was producing the South Asian Arts Festival and the MC for it, this guy, Asif Mondavi, this guy used to be on The Daily Show. He had to leave at the last second to go like shoot a movie or something. And they needed like an MC for it. It was like a three or four hour show with like, you know, musicians, comedians, whatever else performing. And so they asked me to fill in kind of as a last minute. I just realized I have nail polish on, by the way. I noticed that.

Yeah. My daughter, my daughter had made me put nail, by the way. I thought I was looking at that and I was like, either he's got nail polish on, by the way. I noticed that. Yeah, my daughter. What's going on? My daughter had made me put nail... By the way... I thought I was looking at that and I was like, either he's got nail polish on or he's got something... There's something wrong with him. They're gray for anyone who's... Yeah. I just realized...

By the way, I've had this nail polish on... It's probably been two weeks and I've done so many talk shows. I'm doing all this stuff for the election and I never remember... I'm going to forget about this again. It's all right, man. I like it. The entire world. I just kind of seem kind of hip though. Right. Would that be the, can you guys, did you just assume I was hip? I don't know how that's going to go over in Nashville though. They're going to think I'm cool too. There's musicians there. They're going to think I'm, they're going to think I'm, they're definitely going to know that I'm not Republican. That's going to be a problem for them. What was I just telling you about? Being an MC. Oh yeah. So I filled in and I ended up doing

like probably 30 minutes of improvised standup through the course of this evening and killed. I mean, to this day, it's probably one of the best performances I've ever had. And I got like a bunch of calls. And I was like, dude, I was a full-time actor like not long after that. I didn't have a headshot. I didn't have a headshot for my first year. I was so arrogant about it

because I was like, I would never want to do... Again, I now question psychologically if I was trying to present myself as someone who didn't want this thing. But yeah, I booked like 20 things in my first year. It was crazy. That's crazy. Without a headshot.

That never happens. Oh, and my friends were like, oh, hated me. Like they were like, I remember one day when I was working at the bar, my friend was like having like a meltdown because she was like frustrated about life and career. And she storms and she's like crying and she like you know leaves out of the front door and then she opens it back up and she points behind her and she goes meanwhile this motherfucker my face was on a billboard across the street

because i was like i had one of the early things i had booked was um i was just a print job to be there's this new show that Ryan Seacrest had out called On Air with Ryan Seacrest. And I don't know if you remember, they advertised it everywhere on every bus, on every billboard. And I was just one of the guys going like. Oh my God, that's crazy.

And so over the years, I mean, you've done, I think I read you did like seven, you've done like 70 commercials. You're on, you've done spots on like every TV show. What's that? You've been on like every TV show, at least once. Every bad TV show, I've not. I've done a million pilots.

I've done so many pilots. I've done so many commercials. I mean, I don't do commercials anymore. You know, I would, if someone wants to give me a lot of money, I will do it. And you're in the Wonder Woman movie, right? That just got pushed. Yeah.

I think it's coming out in December. I don't know who knows if that actually happens. Yeah. I mean, I only recently have really gotten to the point where, you know, I feel like maybe I'm somebody. But, like, I still – I was talking to my manager this morning. I'm like, you know, it would be great if I could just get offered really cool things. Because even the stuff I do get offered now is not stuff I actually like should do for my career. But the gratification level has to be-

And I'm not, I still need money. Like I need money. So it's a weird, I hate this career. It's the worst. But it's gotta be, I mean, there's a difference between being an actor and somebody else's movie or TV show or doing a commercial and then having your own show where you're following your curiosity and storytelling in that way. They're almost not even the same thing at all. They're not the same thing. I think acting as a career is just fucking stupid. And I think it's terribly toxic. And the only reason to do it is if you know what to expect from it. And I have worked, and in order to know what to expect from it,

you have to not be dependent on it. Because everything about the pursuit of acting teaches you to be insecure and desperate, just in terms of the pursuit, the business of it. And I have never been all in on acting because I've always seen that and known that. And so whether it's the documentary or my entrepreneurial pursuits, or even this stuff, all this stuff that I'm doing,

as a producer, as a director, as a host, all of that has been a very deliberate attempt to have a healthy relationship with acting and to not need it at all. And I'm finally very close to that point because then when you don't need it and you're able to be picky about it, then it's awesome. Right. You could be like Bill Murray

who has that voicemail set up. Do you know about this? Yeah. There's just a phone that you call and you leave a message. No one really knows where he lives, right? Yeah, I think he's got at least a house at Charleston. Right, right.

But difficult to reach, you know, the mystique. Yeah, which I wouldn't mind. I mean, I really would love to not have a cell phone. I think that would be great. Yeah, you'd turn your social media back off. I think that's happening at some point. I mean, I think, yeah. I mean, I'm not kidding.

I might buy followers or something because I don't know. Don't do that. Well, but who cares? It's all stupid. It's all, who cares? Why does it matter? It really doesn't matter.

Tell me why it matters. I can tell you right now, it's more hurting me than helping me career-wise. I don't really care. To have it. The whole thing's a game. What you're saying is to have it but have a low follower count

is more hurtful than not having it at all. Yeah, oh, 100%, 100%. And also like who gives, was the social dilemma at all about anything that was great? No. Like tell me what's, tell me, like I would say social media is more akin to acting. Like the toxicities are so overwhelming.

Yeah, everybody's auditioning all the time now for life. It's mostly negative. And anyone who's telling you about the beauties of it are being myopic for the preservation of their own lifestyle. Like that's when I hear people talk about how great acting is. I'm like, all right, well, you're just saying that to yourself because you don't want to admit that you're insecure and vain like that or whatever, you know, like whatever. Like because I'm not saying those things don't exist.

The beauty of the connective tissue and introspection of acting, those things do exist. It's super fucking fun when it's good. And there are incredibly, they're deeply artistic moments in acting for sure. But the negatives are overwhelming for most people most of the time. And I think the same is true for social media.

But the solution isn't to buy a bunch of followers. I just, I don't know. I just, what am I going to do? Build my, I'm not going to build my following. I'm not even posting. I'm not on there. By the way, I want to ask you because when I was listening to the social media episode,

you're clearly on social media a lot just by your ability to reference other people's social profiles. Do you have a mindfulness about how you use social media? Are you passively on social media or do you set aside time every day to look at it and you know what you want to get out of it? I mean, it's an ongoing battle because-

You're in a battle with it. Yeah, oh, for sure. Because on the one hand, I can easily justify the time invested in it because I've built a whole career based on that. Not entirely, but it's a big aspect of trying to amplify what I do. And so there's a kind of a professional need

for me to service these accounts, but there's also a highly toxic aspect of it, which is they are addictive and I find myself, not mindfully using them, which is not good, right? I don't know anyone who's on social media mindfully. All of us are just picking up the phone in between things around the way, yeah. And it's not all, but it's not a binary thing

because I've made a lot of relationships and friendships from the platforms. And I do communicate with my friends there and I'm able to reach out to people and stay connected to people and kind of see what they're doing. But- That's what I love about it. I mean, I think I'm probably here because trying to do that, being an, being somebody who is addictive by nature, it's, you know, it's a powder keg. Well, I don't think you have to be addictive to be

completely fucked by social media. I think all of us are so addicted to it. There's use and misuse. right? And I do have to like try to create boundaries around it. And lately, like I just use it to, like when I have a new podcast episode, I'll go on there and share about that. But I'm not on Twitter commenting on, you know, what's happening in the world every five minutes, like a lot of people, like I'm definitely not that guy. That's good for you. And I just, you know, I use it to kind of amplify what I'm doing. And also, it's gratifying to help amplify things that other people are doing that I think are deserving of a broader spotlight than maybe they're having. And that's one of the cool things

about how, you know, I don't have the biggest platform, but I've got some people that follow me. And when I can like go, hey, check out this, this is really cool. How can I use it as a force for good and positivity? But then I'll find myself scrolling,, hey, check out this, this is really cool. How can I use it as a force for good and positivity? Same. But then I'll find myself scrolling mindlessly thinking, what am I doing? This is like certainly not healthy. And while we're all stuck at home

in the middle of all of this, it just amplifies like the negative aspects of screen time. It's so tricky. Well, look, one of the things that I wanna do as part of this whole brain cleanse or whatever I'm calling it is a technology cleanse. And I read this book called How to Break Up With Your Phone,

which really establishes a lot of the things that the social dilemma did. It actually, it was really compelling because it basically said that, it basically made the point through the book that our relationship with technology is going to be in retrospect similar to the way we look, like what cigarettes were to the 70s.

We're going to look back and be shocked that we were so permissive with its use. Anyway. And our time. We should be on to technology cleanse together. I'm open to that. Do you wanna do it together? Time is our only, you know,

is a non-renewable resource, right? And we're so liberal with wasting it. And that's insane when you think about it. Another guy you should check out is Cal Newport. You've heard of him. He wrote a book called Digital Minimalism. He's been on the podcast before as well. He's written extensively on this subject

and has really solid thinking. Let's follow Cal's advice. You and I go on a digital cleanse together. Okay, now I imagine both of us will have the goal of it not negatively impacting our productivity, which I think is what will make it interesting. But I would do that with you. Now, I got to tell you right now, here's what's going to happen. We're going to end up being buddies. So I hope you're buckled up for that because- I'm up for that.

I am a lover and this will inevitably bring us closer together and it's going to be a ride. Just don't take me to South Korea and put's gonna be a ride. Just don't take me to South Korea and put me in a casket. Buddy, this could be an episode. We could end up being an episode together. All right. I like this technology. What do you think of this technology cleanse idea?

Blake's out there. Now let's talk, are we gonna monetize this journey? Good question. Maybe that's a crass way to say it. That feels like an ethical lapse. Like I feel like it should be pure if you do it. You know what I mean? How can we make money off of getting off your technology?

Dude, I don't think I have a council of Indians in my head at all times that are like getting in the way of the ethical, yeah. You know what I do wanna do for sure? I was saying monetize for comical purposes, but I do think we should do something with it only because I know for me personally, it'll motivate me to be-

I'm open to it now. We can talk about it. We can talk about it. I think that's a big part of the pursuit of happiness. These devices are actively making us unhappy. And we're powerless when it comes to putting them down. I heard Ashton Kutcher on Ariana Huffington's podcast. You ever heard of that podcast?

She has one that's mainly focused on sleep health, but it's all about health. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she did an interview with him and he said something really interesting. He said, you know, technology is there. Technology and innovation are there to improve our time, but instead we let it do the opposite.

Yeah, and what's interesting about that is that, you know, he, remember when he was the first guy to get a million followers on Twitter and it was like this battle between him and Larry King in the early days of Twitter. Totally. So he was a king of social, like he was dominating social media 1.0 in the early days.

Yeah, so he came through the other side through addiction. And he doesn't really, you know, he doesn't pop up. Like he doesn't need it, he's not using it. It feels like he's developed a healthy arm's length, distant relationship with it. And he's also somebody who has completely changed his relationship to the entertainment industry and has found his passion in investing

and all this stuff that, like he's involved in tech as a behind the scenes angel investor. But all that stuff seems so overwhelming to me because I thought at some point that I was, I mean, I. Because that's kind of your thing too. Doing a lot of things.

Like I'm on three boards right now. Right. And I have trouble saying no to things, not because I'm nice, but that is part of the thing. Like culturally, I'm always pleasing and trying to do nice things for people. But it mainly comes out of like, I'm super curious. I love doing new things. I love people. And I look at him and I see, oh, like when I think of that life,

I go, okay, like that's the thing I'm trying to figure out a way to not do. But it's also the direction that I continue to head towards. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, where do you, so let's say you moved to Nashville, like where do you see yourself in a, in a year or so from now? Career wise, what am I doing? I'll tell you.

Okay. So, you know, I have, I'm doing so many things right now in the entertainment world that are all going great. I think I'm going to, I'm looking towards maybe starting everything. I'm such a fucking loser. So I think I'm going to start a media company. Okay. I'm trying to figure out.

I'm telling you like, and I keep telling my wife because she's like, she doesn't want me to do it. She's like, I'm sick of you working on this. And I'm like, no, but like the whole foundation for this thing, because at this point I've done so many things so many times. I was like, I actually know what I want out of it and what I want my relationship to be. I was like, so I'm trying to build it in a way where it won't destroy my life, which is a lie because you can't build anything important with it.

Yeah, there's a lot of denial baked into that. Yeah, thank you. But if I'm looking macro, and this is the truth, part of the reason why we're going to Tesla Drive, all these places, is because one of my great dreams in life is to build the perfect neighborhood with all my favorite people in it. I like that.

So I want to get to that at some point. My friends and I have all talked about it, but I actually want to really take active steps. Like an off-grid compound or just have all your buddies move to one specific location? I don't know yet. And we've had all those conversations, but really what I want to know is figure out what is going to make, what is going to be the best community for me to live in and for me to raise my kids in.

And I'm also just from an entrepreneurial standpoint, think that would be super fun to figure out. I've always wanted to own a resort. I don't know if that's tied into that. And so I'd say that and the media company are two kind of short-term things that I'm, you know, the media company is kind of the devil that I'm running towards right now. Um, but it's all, it's a social enterprise media company. So it'd be there to specifically, you know, um, to help people in the world who need help. It has a light dusting of Omaze. There's, there is a, there, there's a little bit of Omaze of omaze baked into it for sure, but it's very creative. Anyway, whatever. I don't want to talk

about that because I feel guilty about it. I feel shameful about just how excited I am about it. Anyway. That's a whole other podcast. I'll tell you right now, of all the things I'm saying, that's the one that's probably most likely to happen. Go right towards the shame. Yeah.

I'm still like, what's the thing that's gonna fuck me up the most? What's the thing that I just spent two hours talking about I don't wanna be? I know I went to South Korea and did the whole deaf thing, but like, fuck that. I gotta get this media company up on its legs. You don't understand. And then, so I think like a neighborhood, a resort,

and I also have this dream of being a GM of an NFL team at some point. You and Gary Vee. He wants to do that? Yeah, he wants to own the Jets. I mean, let's be honest, he should. Yeah. He should get that job. It's not like he's going to do worse.

I know. You realize all those teams are used to, well, you don't care. I definitely don't care. That's a different podcast. All these teams lose repeatedly for a reason. It's not unlike any other business yet you have non-business people running them. And so these idiots are running billion dollardollar companies, sports teams, that consistently over decades have the same results. Right. We'll talk about that a different time. I want to talk about the neighborhood thing. Different time being never again.

We got to wrap this up shortly. But the neighborhood thing is a cool idea. And I think what's appealing about that is relevant to your show and the pursuit of happiness in general. Because when you look at the happiest cultures across the world, they're all very, you know, embedded, close-knit communities, right? And when you went to Copenhagen and you're eating lunch with that guy and you're like,

why does everyone say Copenhagen is the happiest, one of the happiest places? He's like, that's some bullshit story. But actually my buddy, Dan Buettner, who did the blue zones where he studied where people live the longest, he also did the same for trying to determine the happiest places on earth,

Copenhagen being one of them. And they did a whole, like they had a very scientific approach to this whole thing. But one of the key factors is community. And I think a whole, like they had a very scientific approach to this whole thing. But one of the key factors is community. And I think in America, we really don't have that. Certainly not in Los Angeles. Well, there's been a lot of writing lately of the breakdown of the American community.

And it's kind of a confluence of so many of the ailments of modernity. Like, first of all, individuality and privacy. That's number one. The cul-de-sac culture. Americans in general, we don't... This has been great about the pandemic, actually. It's actually shown me what I think

neighborhoods used to be like. You see people riding around in bikes and all hanging out. But yeah, we don't have any dependence on each other the way we used to. You don't need to borrow anything. You don't need help with anything don't have any dependence on each other the way we used to, right? So you don't need to borrow anything. You don't need help with anything. You have apps to take you to the airport,

whatever else, right? We don't hang out in our front yards anymore. That used to be a big thing. So we're increasingly private and independent. And yeah, I think also just the way urban culture has evolved is it's not neighborhood-y. It's economies trying to outpace each other at the same time, if that makes sense. And so I think that's why you're seeing in places like the outskirts of – there's been a lot of literature I think in the last year and a half about a mass migration from what they're calling A cities to B cities. So that's why people are moving to Austin, Nashville, Raleigh, Portland, these places

that aren't the biggest cities that have cheaper real estate and also more land. And so you have these things called lifestyle communities that are coming up in these places, which is like people like me who are like, I want that dream neighborhood where everyone's hanging out together and sees each other. And the bikes are just wherever and it's safe and people don't lock their doors. I think that's where it's all headed. Right. Do you like your neighborhood? I mean, I live in a beautiful place. Because this part of LA is very much like that.

But I live like kind of, it's very rural. And so the houses are very far apart and we have like a nice piece of land and it's like absolutely stunningly gorgeous. But you can't like go out the front door and ride your bike down the street to your friend's house. And I think about that with my kids. Like I miss being part of a greater whole.

It's an interesting trade off though, because my wife and I have talked about it. Cause you know, it's really one or the other in terms of proximity of the houses. You know, these livestock communities, they're houses with front porches where you're the wall of your neighbor's house. And everyone's in everyone's business.

Everyone's for the most part, yeah. And we also, if you've lived in LA or any city for a long time, one of the things you kind of think is like, oh, it'd be great to live somewhere with like a huge yard and something resembling a farm nearby that we don't have to necessarily run ourselves. Or like big gardens and all these rural elements. So I'm really interested to learn kind of if there is a nexus between those two different things or if it's one or the other. Yeah. I think it's, I think there's something to that. Like, I just remember, like, I love going back to New York City because I feel like I'm in the flow of life with just people around and it's so easy to connect with people.

And, you know, life almost happens to you, where here you have to exert a tremendous amount of effort just to connect with somebody. Oh, it's the opposite of New York. And you go to Copenhagen in the summertime and like everyone's out and riding bikes and at cafes and, you know, issues with immigration aside

and the problematic nature of that, it's very appealing. And, you know, I just, when I'm in those kinds of environments, I'm very attuned to how much I don't have that in my life. Why are you in LA? I mean, this is a good question. You know, I came here for a job initially. I love the weather, I love the beach, I love the mountains.

I like the outdoors aspect of it. So the day-to-day lifestyle of it is extremely good. It's paradise when it comes to that kind of stuff. It is paradise. But I'm not as interconnected with my fellow man as I have been in other places that I've lived. I don't know that it's possible in LA. I mean, again, I'm speaking from a place of bias,

but I have friends who live in every city, obviously tons of friends who have lived in other places that have come here. And I don't know of any other city where most people you talk to will tell you that they don't wanna live here or that they wanna move on. Most people I know are not super impressed with their lives in LA. And for me,

that came into play when my wife and I were talking about it. I was like, that's probably some sort of a litmus test that everyone we know talks about being somewhere else or aspires to some other place. And do you know what? Do we want to wait our whole life to keep saying that? Or do we just want to go? Because we can always come back here. Because I agree, all those things you said are huge.

There's not a better place. If you're just talking about the place, there's not a better place to live than Southern California. It's the fucking best. Weather's perfect. You can go skiing and snowboarding. You can actually. I've. It's the fucking best. Weather's perfect. You can go skiing and snowboarding. You can actually, I've done it in the same day. It's, you know, surfing and skiing. I mean, yeah.

I don't know, it's tricky. And there's so many interesting people here doing such cool things. Yeah, I mean, I think that's a big part of what anchors me here now, like doing what I do. Like I have access to unbelievable people. Where if I lived in another, you know, a smaller city in a different place, it would be very difficult to be able to get people to

sit down across from me unless I'm like sending people airplane tickets all the time, you know? No, I hear you, man. I mean, I think for us, we're really scared of, you know, losing all those things. But then we're also thinking, well, we have so many friends and work here. So we'll probably end up being here a month or two out of every year anyway. And also, I think we're both just excited for an adventure. And if it ends up just being an adventure that brings us back to LA,

I don't think it'll have been anything but an amazing thing, which means we chose LA after all that. It'll make us love LA even more. Yeah, cool. All right, we gotta end this, but I wanna end it with a final- You don't wanna talk for eight more hours? We could.

Dude, we can, to be continued, we can do this again. I could talk to you forever, but I'm also fatigued. Like, I feel like we just went on a run. Do you have to do another podcast today? No, and by the way, I have been doing- Because you've been on a media tear. You've been doing a lot. I have. You've been Googling Ravi Pat. You've been doing a lot. I have.

You've been Googling Ravi Patel. A little bit. Yeah, I mean, you've gotten into that. I mean, Pete Holmes was, I mean, that was a deep, that was a Patel deep cut. I love that guy. Yeah, the conversation you're gonna have with him is gonna be unlike any other conversation

you're gonna have with anyone else. Well, this has been an incredible conversation. I really mean that. Final thoughts, the pursuit of happiness. Ravi Patel's pursuit of happiness. I'm gonna ask you the question everybody asks you, which is like in this pursuit of happiness and going on these adventures,

like what is the main lesson that you've taken away from this that has improved your life? I haven't asked that a lot. And I could not tell you what the answers I've given every time is, which is something you're supposed to get good at over the course of many press appearances. I don't want the stock answer.

What I'm saying is there's no stock answer and you're gonna get a completely new answer because I'm just thinking about it as you're saying. The first thing that came to mind when you asked that, I think the best lesson for making that show was that I just wanna keep doing it. I love it. I love it.

Happiness came in the pursuit. Well, that was gonna be cheesy, but that's what I was gonna say. I mean, there's such joy Love it. Happiness came in the pursuit. Well, I was gonna be cheesy, but that's what I was gonna say. I mean, there's such joy. And I know that I'm so lucky that I get to somehow do this for work. So if I can keep finding ways to make the pursuit of my own joy

and the pursuit of improving my relationships with the people I love, if somehow I can keep making that my work, then talk about the greatest privilege in life. That's probably, I mean, it's just so fun trying to figure out ways to do better. And if you can laugh and smile along the way, I mean, that's, I mean, it's just the real juice in life. And the same way this conversation has been that, like talk about like, this is gonna fill me up for the day. So fun.

You and me both, man, to be continued. I'd love to have you back anytime. This was super fun. So thank you. Well, I told you, man, we're about to be back. Things are about to go super deep, rich and rough. The pursuit of happiness on HBO Max, streaming everywhere. That's right.

You can find Ruv. At ShowMeTheRuvie. And if he suddenly has like a million followers there, then you know that he bought them all. At ShowMeTheRuvie, desperately follow. Please, everyone everyone get on board keep me from going to the dark side excellent peace bye or if you know where i can find followers to buy please reach out to me or everybody who's listening just go follow him

one or the other okay this is fun man nice man thank you ah so fun he's packing some good energy that Ravi isn't he I thought that was awesome super grateful for this guy if you liked what he was about be sure to check him out on HBO Max

Pursuit of Happiness is the name of his show again and of course if you haven't seen it yet you gotta watch Meet the Patels it's just a delight a great family movie as well.

Give Ruvvy a follow on the socials at showmetheruvvy on Instagram and Twitter and visit the show notes on the episode page to peruse the links and the resources on everything that we discussed today. While you're at it, pick up my new book, Voicing Change, Shipping Globally. I'll even sign it and available only at richroll.com slash VC.

And if you're looking to dial up your plate, the Plant Power Meal Planner, that's where it's at, you guys. Thousands of customized plant-based recipes at your fingertips with access to nutrition coaches seven days a week, all integrated with grocery delivery and available to you for just $1.90 a week,

visit meals.richroll.com. If you'd like to support the work we do here on the show, subscribe, rate, and comment on it on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, all the places. Share the show or your favorite episodes with friends or on social media. And you can support us on Patreon at richroll.com slash donate. Today's show was produced and engineered by Jason Camiolo. The video edition of the show was created by Blake Curtis. Graphics by Jessica Miranda. Portraits by Allie Rogers. Sponsored relationships are managed by DK David Kahn. And theme music, as always, by Tyler, Trapper, and Hari, my boys. Thanks. I love you guys. Appreciate all of you. I don't take your

attention for granted. And I will see you back here shortly. I don't know when, soon. I always show up just on time. Until then, be well, live large, get outside, express yourself. Peace, plants, namaste. Thank you.