The Rich Roll Podcast - Rich Roll & Marco Borges On Living In Alignment With Core Values

Episode Date: February 2, 2017

This is a special mid-week episode of the podcast featuring a panel discussion that took place at the Miami Seed Food and Wine Festival in November 2016 between me and Marco Borges, the CEO of 22 Days Nutrition – a plant-based nutrition products and meal delivery service he founded in partnership with Jay-Z and Beyonce. If you are new to the podcast, I implore you to check out my first conversation with Marco, RRP #195 — it's great. Since that day Marco and I have become very close. The real deal with a huge heart, he's a man truly committed to educating people about health and fitness, while providing them with the best possible organic, plant-based meal service and nutritional supplements. This a loose, fun, unmoderated off-the-cuff conversation about many things, with a focus on nutrition, fitness and effective strategies for being the best living advocate of a thriving, vibrant lifestyle. Specific topics include: * practicing non-judgment & the vegan lifestyle * striving for growth & expansion * managing perfectionism in business * the power of conscious consumerism * living in alignment with your core values * to compromise or not to compromise * plant-based at your own pace NOTE: The audio is wonky (and I'm being kind). Apologies in advance, but this recording was captured on less than stellar audio equipment before a live audience. Nonetheless, I thought it valuable enough to share. I love this guy and I hope you enjoy our lively banter! Peace + Plants, Rich

The Rich Roll Podcast. podcast. Really appreciate you guys tuning in today, especially in light of the fact that I think there's like 100,000 new podcasts that are getting launched every week on the internet, competing for your precious time. So it means a lot to me that you would spend a couple hours with me, that you would subscribe to my show on iTunes, that you would share it with your friends and on social media. And big love for everybody who has gone the extra mile to support my work through Patreon and by making a habit of always using the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. Okay, before we dive into today's episode, a couple things really quick. Okay, so today is a special midweek episode of the podcast, and it features a panel discussion between me and Marco Borges. Marco is the CEO of 22 Days Nutrition, which is a plant-based

nutrition products and meal delivery service company that he founded a couple years back in partnership with jay-z and beyonce and this panel took place at the seed food and wine festival in miami it was a couple months ago i think it was the first week of november last year and if you're new to the podcast i implore you to check out my first conversation with Marco, which was RRP 195. Since that day, which is the first day that I met Marco, the day I did that podcast with him, we have gone on to become very close friends. I just, I cannot say enough good things about this guy. He is legit.

He is true blue. The real deal. He has such a huge heart and he's really committed with every fiber of his being to helping educate as many people as possible about the health benefits of plant-based nutrition and providing them with the best possible, you know, organic whole plant foods. So again, this is a panel. It took place at an event before a live audience. So the audio at times is a little bit wonky. It was not my equipment, but it's great.

And I really just wanted to share it with you guys. It's a conversation about a lot of things. It's about nutrition. It's about fitness, of course. But it's also about how to effectively balance advocacy with business, which I think is kind of interesting and dynamic. In any event, I think that's all I'm going to say about this. I love this guy. And I hope you enjoy our lively banter. How are you guys? Good? Good, man. Awesome. I'm happy to be in Miami, my second

year at Seed. It's a fantastic event. Yeah, it's really cool to see so many people turn up to talk about wellness and the plant-based movement and these ideas that, you know, I know, Marco, you care a lot about, that I care a lot about. And, you know, I say this quite often, I travel a lot, but I really think and I believe that it's events like this that really hold the potential to shift and change culture and the conversation and the action that we're taking around health, health care, the environment, how we treat animals, like all of these issues

that I know we're all concerned about. It's really a grassroots movement, and it's about each and every one of us in here, and it's about empowering all of us to take the information and the inspiration that we get from these events, but then to go home and to put them into action. So in terms of that as kind of like a starting point or a launch pad, I'd be interested in hearing from you, Marco, like how you approach just this idea of advocacy in general. When you talk about these issues that are so important to you, like how do you choose your words?

Like what is your approach? You know, we all know it has different energy around this and a different style and approach. Some people are very in-your-face and hardcore. Other people are very nonjudgmental and try to create this sort of easy welcome mat, and there's all variations in between. So I think it would be cool to talk about these different approaches, what works for you, and how you kind of propose to people in the audience how they can think about carrying this message forward.

It started with an idea of understanding that I wanted to create something that didn't exist for me. And the more I learned, the more I knew I wanted to move towards a plant based lifestyle. And when I was exploring and sort of learning and immersing myself in this new life that I wanted to live, I realized that far too often you're faced with judgment. You know, how are you going to enter what you're doing, how quickly you're moving, you know, if you're thinking about going vegetarian or going vegan. And for me it was, the more I learned, the more I knew I had to do it. So one day I just said, okay, starting today. I'm kind of just like that by nature, but not everyone is wired the same way. And I think that the easiest way through

the door is to have a welcome mat outside, right? To have a big smile on your face and to just let people in without judgment. Because I think that we live in a society that judges way too much and doesn't love enough. And I just say, you know, we should judge less and just love people more for who they are. I've got people that I meet on a daily basis that will walk up to me and say, I'm trying to be plant-based. And I just look at them and I respond. I say, that's fantastic. I say, but I'm only 50%. I said, that's amazing. And they're like, really? Because they expect for you to believe that from one day to the next, they have to be perfect and not only eat plant-based, but also give up their car, buy a hybrid or ride a motorcycle, I mean, a bicycle to work,

let go of all their leather goods. And if they own any fur, you know, toss it out the window. And the reality is that that's not life. It's not practical. It doesn't work for everyone. And I think that if we want to make this a really inclusive lifestyle, we have to allow people to walk in ways that make them feel really comfortable about themselves. There's some people that I know that have said to me, hey, my whole family is now 100% plant-based, and that's fantastic. And there's other people that say, I no longer feed my kids meat. And that's also awesome. That's also fantastic. And I don't follow up with a, but do you still give them dairy? But do you still give them eggs? Because I think it's

unnecessary. It defeats the purpose of what the mission is. And I think the mission is to educate people. And I think that the more we allow people to educate themselves by walking through the door, to educate themselves by walking through the door, the more that they feel empowered to make lifestyle choices that work for them. Some people want to give up dairy first. Other people want to go, you know, some people want to dip their toe in the pool and some people want to use a springboard.

And I think we have to allow, you know, take all the no running by the pool and no diving signs off and let people do whatever they feel most comfortable with. The truth is that my whole life has been about yes, and I can, and I will, and I do. And I'm not a believer in negative words, and I just don't use them in my daily practice. And at our office,

at the gyms, when I used to have gyms, it was always about don't use the word no. Don't use the word I can't. Don't use the word I won't. Let's find a way to turn a negative into a positive. And I think it's just that I'm wired that where people see obstacles, I see opportunities. And I think that the more we present that as a solution for people, the easier it is for people to lean towards a life. And I know that you have had your own process that's gotten you to where you are today. But it wasn't exactly like mine. But here we are sitting on the same stage together. So how cool is that?

Yeah, it's awesome to share the stage with you. And that's a really beautiful sentiment. I could not agree more. And as you were kind of so beautifully articulating that perspective, I was thinking about why it is that people sort of feel like they have to set themselves up to this perfectionist standard. And I think a big part of that or a piece of that is due to the fact that they've experienced the negative feedback and ramifications of falling short of perfect. Like, hey, maybe they announced on Facebook, like, hey, I'm going meatless Mondays. And then somebody left a comment saying, well, you're still doing this and this and this six days a week. You know what I mean? And like the raining on the parade kind of thing, because there is a lot of that out there. And the more you kind of engage

on social media and on the internet, the more you're going to experience in this lifestyle. I think that's really unfortunate because I really think that you do have to fan those flames and encourage people to take that extra step. And I think implicit in that, and what's kind of between the lines of what you're saying, is a level of trust and faith that if you give that person that lifeline and that encouragement for that first step, that they're going to take that encouragement and then they're going to take the next step. They're going to move forward. They're going to go on their own version of your journey. It's going to look different. It's not going to be the same, but you have to trust that you can put them out into the world and allow them that, right? As opposed to being very paternalistic and controlling, being like, well, you're not doing

this and you're not doing that and you should do that. I mean, who does that? I mean, who responds favorably or positively to that kind of feedback? Like as human beings, like nobody likes to be on the receiving end of that. So like yourself, I always try to be, you know, it's like as human beings, we're going to judge, like we're just, we're judgment, we're hardwired to judge on some level. Anybody who tells you they're nonjudgmental, I don't, I don't trust that person because I think we just, we just do. You see somebody, you make a judgment call, you make, you have presumptions and assumptions based on first impressions of people. It's kind of what we do. But the more we can kind of own that and say, how can I move past that? How can I be more compassionate? How can I be more of service? And Marco is somebody who's a beautiful,

amazing example of somebody who's in this for the right reasons, like you're in it for the service. And it shines through and through in everything that you do I aspire to that and the more I can be in that mindset that space that that place of of just being available to other people how can I help you what would be most of service to you I've noticed that that when I do that my life is better and miracles happen so I encourage everybody to try that even if it's just for an experiment. I think that you brought up a really great point, is that we strive for perfection, right? But I think it's because we're wired that way, right? Imagine your earliest memory of school. You start the school year with an A, and then you work your way down from there. You don't start at an F, you start at an A. So they've set this sort of standard, right? They set this expectation for you that you have to be at a certain place. And sometimes it's so defeating because the minute

that you fall just a hair short of that, you feel like you're behind. And I think that in many ways, we've taken that and it's become deeply ingrained in us that that's what life is all about. It's about perfection. I think in the U.S., I think a lot more prevalent than other places around the world is that we focus so much on perfection, but the minute that we fall short of it, we give up. And that's really sad because we don't encourage, well, Silicon Valley is the only place that encourages failure right I think it's like you haven't you haven't you haven't done anything good unless you feel like a dozen times unless yeah unless you've failed a dozen times and lost hundreds of millions of dollars you're really not doing anything but but the reality is that we've all faced at

one point in time or another right where we feel like our best wasn't good enough. And then we were just like, oh, well, the hell with it, right? And that happens to someone that's like, I'm going to go plant-based. And on Friday, they are not. And then it's just like, okay, what do I do now? And I think it's just about forgiving yourself and allowing yourself to take a little stumble every once in a while and often. And just, you know, gracefully get up, dust yourself off, and keep going.

I'm sure that if you stayed down any of the times that you fell down, you probably wouldn't be here today just like me. I think it's in the same vein of what I do. We do something, I think, very similarly. Everything that we do in our lives is really driven by our passion. And I tell my friends that it's a really exciting life to live. A lot of times we leave school in search of success, and we've defined that success with some monetary value. But success comes in many shapes and forms and different feelings. And the minute that you realize that success is not so much a dollar amount,

but success is a way of life and how you live and how you feel about yourself and the people around you, you really have achieved success because then it's just work in progress, right? So I love the fact that everything that you do within your blog and within your life is all about empowering other people. And you've sort of just given yourself to the universe and you've said, you know what, I'm putting my best out there and I want to share knowledge with the world. And sometimes you bring people on that you know nothing about. And sometimes you bring people on that you know nothing about. And sometimes you bring people on that are nothing like you.

And sometimes you bring people on that are a lot like you. And I was just outside, I was just telling him that my wife thinks that I'm a little nutty because I used to teach spinning classes way back when, right? And I would have really amazing playlists. I love music. I'm really a big music fan. But for my own workouts, I play really eclectic, funky, all the way left, all the way right stuff. But it doesn't always have to be fast. I could be listening from Enya to Coldplay to Bush. It could be anywhere, right? But now, and she would always be like, how do you work out so

hard to something so slow? I can't do it. And then now she's like, how do you work out so hard to something so slow? I can't do it. And then now she's like, what are you working out to? And it's Rich Rolls podcast. She's like, all right, I totally lost you, dude. When you put on some music, you call me back in the room. But I love it because it's so inspiring. And it really, you have so many interesting guests.

And how do you, you know, dissect all, I mean, there's a lot of really cool people out there right now doing some really amazing things. So like, you must have a wishlist of like, you know, that's like 20 pages long. How do you say, okay, you know, for the next three months, this is my, this is what I'm going to do. And this is what I want to focus on because whether it's microbiome or whether it's what's the next wave?

Is it a book that you're interested in? How do you go about that? What's your process like? I think you're ascribing way too much method and forethought. In truth, it's like... The podcast is now at a point thank you for the kind words i appreciate that i'm like laughing trying to think of you working out to listen to the podcast but anyway um you know at any given moment like i have feelers out

all the time like i'm always sending out emails and you know to a lot of times to people like oh that person will never get back to me and sometimes they don't and you know, a lot of times to people like, oh, that person will never get back to me. And sometimes they don't. And, you know, surprisingly, sometimes they do. And a lot of it's just scheduling. Like, because I do all of them in person. I don't do them on Skype. So it has to be, we have to be in the same city. Not everybody lives in Los Angeles, obviously, or when I'm traveling and things like that.

So a lot of times, like, it's just percolating, like, you know know inquiries that i made a year a year ago finally you know sort of mature to the point where it actually happens but i try to curate it so that it's never any too much of one thing at a given time and it's always kind of mixed up and changing and and i don't have any hard and fast rules over who the people are that i have on but the general premise is that you know i'm interested in growth'm interested in expansion. I want that growth to continue. And we call it like beyond the kale. Like it's great, plant-based, awesome. That's an amazing way to shift your lifestyle

and like welcome in a new energy into your life. But it doesn't end there, right? There's so much more that we can do. I should just speak for myself. There's so much more growth that I still have to do and that I want to do while I'm on planet earth. I'm a highly flawed person. There's so much to learn. And I think it's important to kind of just look beyond the horizon of what it means to be sort of plant-based or what your diet or your plate looks like to understand that there

are ways, it's important to move beyond that, right? Like what is my, you know, responsibility to my partner and to my kids and to my community and to the planet? And what are my blind spots? Where do I still need to grow? How can I take an honest inventory of where I'm at and push the boundaries of, you know, what I'm capable of emotionally, mentally, spiritually, not just physically, right? So the people that I have on are all, you know, some form of perspective on that, whether it's, you know, a, you know, a Buddhist who is, you know, an expert on tea ceremonies and meditation, or it's a doctor who knows all about the gut biome or any, yeah, or Steve Case founded AOL,

you know what I mean? Like entrepreneur, like anybody. So I don't, I don't have hard. And the thing is that they just have to interest me. They have to intrigue me. You know, I get a lot of emails from people that are like, oh, here's the perfect person for your podcast. Usually it's like, if I don't emotionally connect to that person, sometimes I'll do it anyway. And it ends up being flat. Like I have to really genuinely be interested in what that person has to say otherwise like it's it doesn't end up working out so well but what i love is that it's not a great plant-based podcast it's a great podcast it just happens to be plant-based you know which is very different right because sometimes you you give someone something to try you tell them it's vegan cheese, and you're like,

it's not bad for being vegan. You're like, what is that supposed to mean? So I think that in the context of... It's just, you know, there's a lot of podcasts out there. A lot of people doing some really amazing things, and you just happen to be doing it really, really, really well, and you just don't have to do that. So it's just kind of great.

Yeah, I appreciate that. I think that, you know, certainly there's a vegan plant-based theme to my podcast, but it's not entirely that. Like, so I try to space out the plant-based doctors and advocates because I'm not interested in preaching to the choir. I'm interested in the guy who's can't stop eating at McDonald's and doesn't have any idea what it means to be plant-based. And if I'm just a purely vegan plant-based podcast, that guy's never going to tune in. You know, I have to give him Steve case. I got to give him somebody, I got to give him an entry drug to get him in the door. And then four episodes in Dr. Neil Barnard comes in and blows his mind. You know what I mean?

But, but he would have never, or Michael Greger or, you know, T. Colin Campbell or you name it. Like, so, but, but it's about, it goes back to what we were talking about before, which is creating that welcome mat, like being an inviting place where people feel welcome to come in, you know, and when somebody, you know, falls short of that perfectionist standard and falls down, where's the person who says, Hey, it's okay, here's my hand, let me pull you back up? I think we all, we can be that person for somebody else. And the chain reaction of that and what that creates in the world is not to be underestimated. So on that note, it brings up something I wanted to ask you, which is everything you do is of a very high quality. Your food products, the supplements, it's all

at the highest, finest 0.01% of what's available in the world. And I know your attention to that detail is ferocious and devoted and dedicated. And that's a passion and an attention to detail that I share in the work that I'm trying to put out in the world. But on some level, as a business person, I'm sure you come up across opportunities to compromise or that proposition where good is better than perfect because there's a perfectionist ideal that I'm sure you have in your mind. So how do you manage that in your business

when you're trying to get these products out to the world and understanding that maybe it's not always going to be as perfect as you would like it in your dream that night to be? What is your perspective on that? Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm hopeless. I really mean it. I'm not even trying to joke. I really am hopeless because I won't settle for anything less than perfection in everything that I do.

Sometimes as a business owner it's difficult because I play in a space where there's a lot of really big brands. I mean, billion dollar brands, as you know. And we're in a place where we're constantly fighting for ingredients, right? Trying to source the best, the cleanest ingredients. And when I decided that I would launch this brand, I knew that I could not, I was tired of looking for products and always realizing people were formulating for label copy.

You know what I mean? Like it says soy-free in the front, and you're like, yeah. And then you look at the back and it's all junky ingredients. They just wanted to be able to say soy-free in the front. So I thought someone should formulate for function. And I thought that that would be me. And what I very quickly learned is that although the retailers will tell you that they want you

to give them the best, they don't really want you to give them the best. And the retailers that you think want the best of you and for you don't always do that. So, and perfect examples, like, you know, someone will say to you, well, can you give me a, you know, product A for $4? And you're like, it cost me $12 to make it. Sure. You know, like I, it's, it's impossible, right? So one thing that I look at is, and I'll give you a more specific example, protein, right? So a protein is typically grown, pea protein is typically grown in Canada or China. And Canadian peas are sent all the way to China. They're milled, processed in China, and then sent back to the U.S., right?

But there's peas right here in the U.S. But the peas in the U.S. are way more expensive than the peas grown in China that are also U.S.'s peas right here in the US. But the peas in the US are way more expensive than the peas grown in China that are also USDA organic. So I send the Chinese peas and the US peas to a lab as I do everything and I realize that there's a very big difference between the Chinese peas and the US peas. So I say, there's no way I could use anything but US peas so I'll use USPs. So my product is four times more expensive than everyone else's, but on shelf, I have to be the same exact price. So when I say I'm hopeless, it's tough because I would probably be way further along if I had

the ability to compromise. But because I don't compromise, it's a lot more challenging for us, but at the same time, it's a lot more challenging for us, but at the same time, it's a lot more rewarding because we know that we're paving away. We know that we're challenging the status quo. And when we hear that our biggest competitor or the 800-pound gorilla in our space is looking at doing something because we've done it, it makes me very excited. When my pea source calls me and says, hey, so-and-so just called me and said that they want your peas. It makes me really happy. I don't get upset.

I'm not upset when someone tries to imitate what it is that we do. I'm actually flattered by it because the reality is that I got into this business to change the business. I came into this space to change General Mills and Campbell's and Kellogg's of the world because I don't believe that they want to hurt us. I just believe that we've been fighting this war on price for so many years that at some point, something's got to give. And what we've done is that we forced them to give us what we want. We want food that tastes really good, that's really cheap. They've given it to us. Mission accomplished. Now we have to change that. We're waiting for U.S. government to pass a law, which doesn't seem to be working, right, to tell us when ingredients are genetically modified,

and we all know now that the Dark Act has passed, and we will probably never know when ingredients are genetically modified. So what do we as consumers have to do? So the greatest power you have is that you vote with your pocketbook every single day, multiple times a day. And I say that the conscious consumer is the best advocate that anyone can have. Because if you go out and you buy only non-GMO certified products or USDA organic products that are non-GMO, guess what's going to happen? certified products or USDA organic products that are non-GMO, guess what's going to happen?

The price of non-GMO is going to go down and we're going to do away with all GMOs. But if we continue to say, okay, it's what's available. It's what I'm going to buy. Yeah, sure. It's inconvenient. It sometimes is inconvenient. It's not easy. But the truth is that convenient isn't always what's best for us. And the more we practice holding true to the values that mean the most to us, the more convenient it will get eventually. So I think that there's a lot of value in what we do, not just us as a brand, but as consumers as well. And I practice it at home. I won't buy products that are not organic.

And if I can buy local, I buy local. And I don't talk about it, I do it. So it's not about telling me, don't tell me when you're on my block, tell me when you're in front of my house. You've just got to make it happen. I think that when you practice this, people get to see what it is that you do and it inspires other people to want to follow suit because they realize how powerful they are.

And this movement didn't just appear. It didn't just manifest itself. It's a collective consciousness, right? There's a lot of people thinking about the things that we're thinking about. There's a lot of people that these values resonate with them and that this means a lot to them. And it's the more that we talk about it and the more that we bring these things up and the more seed food and wine festivals there are, the more opportunities there are for people to live a healthier lifestyle. We all know, I mean, I don't think there's anyone in this

room, if you're here, you already know that the more you lean towards a plant-based diet, the healthier you're going to be. We all know that we could prevent, stop, and even reverse heart disease through a plant-based diet. We know that by the year 2030, probably 50% of the US is going to be diabetic and we know that we could reverse that, we could stop it by adopting a plant-based diet, we know that we could reduce our carbon footprint, we know that we could promote

cruelty-free living, and the list just goes on and on and on and on. So since we know all these things, and one of my favorite quotes is, when you know better, you have to do better, right? So if you know better, you do better. And I think it's just continuing to spread the awareness in a way that's inviting and warm and welcoming and letting people follow. So it's not easy, but it's a path we chose. On that note, we're all more powerful than we allow ourselves to believe. Like it's very easy in our culture to feel disenfranchised, like our, what we say doesn't matter. Our vote doesn't count, etc. But it truly does matter where you choose to spend those dollars. That is the most impactful, powerful statement.

And it is a political statement that you can make multiple times a day. So it's easy to point fingers and say, well, the FDA or the U.S. regulatory bodies, they have to change. We've got to get rid of the subsidies and the government. And why't legislation doing this and the DARK Act, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? But we actually don't have that much control over that. But the way we can get that like sort of Archimedes lever to really compel that kind of change is through that grassroots level daily action of putting your money where your mouth is and following through on actions that are consistent with your values. So that means, you know, purchasing habits and patterns like you were talking about. But I can't help but think when you're speaking about that,

that that conjures up this idea, this stereotype that living this lifestyle, a plant-based lifestyle, is really kind of just for the privileged and well-heeled, you know, of the world. Like, how can we make this affordable and accessible to the average human being and perhaps even the people that are living in the urban food deserts across the country who are the people, you know, suffering not just socioeconomically but suffering the most from these chronic lifestyle ailments that are unnecessarily killing way too many of us. So do you have any thoughts on that? I mean, yeah, it's pretty simple. I mean, I think that that's like propaganda, because the truth is

that we know when we go to the supermarket, whether you go to Whole Foods, or you go to Publix, or you go to Trader Joe's, what costs the most is always the meat. It's not the grains, it's not the beans, it's not the legumes, it's not the nuts and the seeds. I mean, if you choose to buy everything organic, sure, it's going to be a little more expensive, but that's up to you, that's a personal choice. But your health is something that you shouldn't take lightly,

and if you have the power and you have the information in front of you and you have all the science, I mean, there's an overwhelming body of science that points to the solution to almost everything is in a plant-based diet. I mean, literally. So when I hear someone say to me that it costs more money, I just, I can't help but to stop and say, wait, you don't really believe that's you. I mean, we have Allie, I forget her name, but we had someone that tried our 22-day program and was on food stamps, was on the SNAP program when she started. And she wrote us and she says, you guys don't know who I am, but I followed your program.

I was on food stamps when I started the program. but I followed your program. I was on food stamps when I started the program. And I was hesitant in the beginning because I'd heard all my friends say that this was something for the wealthy and this was something for the one percenters and whatnot. And I can tell you that not only did it change my life, I am now plant-based, my family's now plant-based and I lost a ton of weight and I feel wonderful. It was really beautiful. I mean, like really beautiful testimonial. She said, but in addition, I wound up saving money. It was really beautiful. I mean, like really beautiful testimonial. She said, but in addition, I wound up saving money. I was spending less money than I typically spent

at the supermarket because I was no longer buying expensive meats that were full of, and then she just went off. And it's funny because when you allow people to walk in on their own, they immediately become the hardest core advocates. And if you beat someone over the head, you turn them off to the point where they're,

you know, right? You've experienced that, right? If you tell someone one time too many, they're like, you know, it's like vegans preach, right? I was talking to someone the other day and they were like, yeah, when you meet someone that's vegan,

five minutes into the conversation, they'll tell you they're vegan and then they'll ask you why you're not. And that's sort of like the preconceived notion that people have, you know, what used to be a vegan 20, 30 years ago, people like, you were a tree hugger living in Colorado that didn't wear deodorant, right? And wearing Birkenstocks. And now it's like everyone and anyone can be, you would never know who it is. So, I mean, I think that the more we share the information, the more that we create this movement and the more that we empower people, the more people

are going to vote with their pocketbooks, the more people are going to aspire to this lifestyle and look for ways to make it more affordable for themselves and their family. I mean, there's nothing easier than buying local produce and there's CSAs all over the country. I mean, it's pretty easy once you put it in your mind that you want to do it it's something that's pretty easy to execute on. Gene Bauer always calls it an aspiration right because it played that idea of perfectionism none of us can ever really truly achieve that so it's about aspiring to create a way of living a way of life in which your actions are

in alignment as much as possible with your core values, right? And what I've discovered, and I don't know about you, but when I started eating plant-based and when I started to live my life more in alignment with my core values, a lot of other things happened. You know, like my life expanded, the horizons of my life expanded and new opportunities and new ideas started to swirl around and the possibilities of what I could do with that energy and that kind of new focus and perspective really opened up my life in beautiful ways. And that's something that Julie was talking about in her talk earlier. So from your perspective, when did the idea of trying to take this lifestyle and create,

I mean, I know you have a history in the fitness industry and all of that, but when did the idea occur to you to try to create this brand out of this lifestyle that's so meaningful to you? I'll digress a little bit. But you're a living testament of that, right? So you have manifested what you're putting out there. I mean, like, if you're not the perfect example of putting out the best energy in the world

just opening itself up to you, I don't know what is. Don't use the word perfect. just opening itself up to you. I don't know what it is. I had decided that I wanted to go plant-based, and I was always, I have my entire life, I've been a research junkie. I grew up wanting to be a doctor. If you asked me at six what I wanted to be, I would have said a doctor. And ever since I was a kid, I remember just always saying that I was going to become a doctor. And then I started pre-med. And I remember I was doing a lot of, I wanted to be in hospitals all the time just watching. And I remember I was sitting in on a surgery. This guy was getting a third of his liver removed.

He had gotten a bunch of his intestine taken out. And this guy was basically going to use a bag as a bathroom for the rest of his life. And I looked over and I was like, so Everett, what kind of psychological counseling does this guy get now? Like, how does this happen? Does he stay here for a couple of weeks? Does he go to a rehab? Like what happens? And he looked at me, he's like, oh, son, you have so much to learn. He's like, you know, this, and he just basically broke down, like the surgery has to take this many hours. If it takes more, you know, it is what it is. This is, you know, it's like changing a muffler. You have to use this drug. If I like that drug better because I've had better results with it, so what?

The insurance company pays for this one. It just kind of walked me through the process, and I just thought it was kind of crazy. And then I went back home that day, and I vividly remember saying to myself, I can't be a part of this. This is crazy. This is bananas. So imagine the first kid in my family that goes to college and the first kid that's going to become a doctor. And then I come home and I told my mom, you know, I decided that I no longer want to become a doctor. I actually want to become a trainer. She was like, what? I would be a lot more impactful if I prevented disease than if I treated it. Because if I was going to treat disease, it would not be totally under my control.

So I thought, you know, people will do anything to get better, but they won't do everything they can to stay better. And I just thought that that was really crazy. So I thought, maybe it's just me, but if I can help people live a healthier, smarter life through fitness, it might be something worth doing. So I decided that I would pick up a degree in exercise phys along with biology. And then I started working and I built

a business and I knew based on all the research that I'd done that this was like all the arrows are pointing in the same direction. And I just thought, okay, like I know I have to go plant based. If I want to live a long life and I don't want to see what happens to all the people around me, everyone has diabetes, they all take 15 pills, everybody has hypertension, it runs in our family, you know, disease is hereditary. Disease is not hereditary. Habits are hereditary, right? It's what you see on a daily basis that you do every single day.

They're like, well, how come his father had heart disease? Well, because they ate the same food every single day. Like, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. But, you know, so we're almost like we put ourselves in a position where we want to feel like we're hopeless. But the reality is that we have all the control. We have all the power. So once I knew that fitness was a really strong component, I realized, well, a lot of people are still missing the other part. Because what I noticed when I had my gyms is that people develop really great habits

around working out. And it's something that's really social. And we do it often and with people that we love. So it becomes almost like, oh, let's catch up, Julie. We'll go to yoga. And then tomorrow I'll go running with you. And the next day I'll do whatever, Barry's Boot Camp with you. And it works.

And people develop a habit of that. But they never really fully get the habit around eating healthy because they eat unhealthy by themselves most of the time right so you know if you don't eat right it's just nothing will ever come together so after watching people come to the gym on a daily basis and their bodies weren't changing I thought to myself well you know I remember we did we we put out this program, Unlimited Spinning, and a hundred people signed up for it, and I was like, oh, that's so cool.

They're going to come spin all the time. Their bodies are going to transform. This is going to be so awesome. We were the first spinning studio in South Florida, so I was like, this is awesome. People are going to look at us and be like, these guys are so cutting edge, and everyone's losing all this weight. This is phenomenal. So this group of Cuban ladies were coming every morning.

They'd come with their cafecito, and they'd drink their cafe, and then they'd be like, okay, and they'd get on the bike, yeah, ah, ah, for an hour, and then they'd leave and come back two hours later, and I was like, wow, this is awesome. And then they're doing a second class, and then they'd come to, I had a class called downtown where it was all downtown, like butt, legs, all that. And they'd come to that, and I like oh babe forget it it's just my my wife was my girlfriend back then i was like forget it these girls were going to transform their lives it's going to be

awesome a month goes by two months of unlimited spinning goes by three months of unlimited spinning goes by nothing happens and i was like something's here. And they look at you and they're like, I'm not eating anything. You know, I don't eat. I don't eat. You know, I don't eat anything. I was like, something's off here. So I was like, we've got to change something. And I already was moving in the direction of like, you know,

helping people a little bit more than just with the training. I was doing a lot of rehab work for athletes and I started doing more and more. And then it was more like, let me help you with your diet. And then I started helping them with their diet. And then it really started to click. And I was like, man, the diet's the most important component.

And then I was like, this is it. This is like, you know, diet one, exercise has to be always a very distant second place. And then it started to really help people change the way they were thinking and they were looking at food. And again, and at that point in time, I was really moving in the direction of a really healthy diet. I'd removed all unprocessed foods. I remember I was like the first person I knew that went gluten-free like 20 something years ago. People are like, why? What is that? It's like some crazy stuff or you're skinny. What are you doing gluten-free?

I just thought, well, you know, the truth is that, you know, I've read a bunch of stuff about it and the truth is I don't need it. A and B, it's all junk food. So it's going to be an easy fix. I'll just eliminate all gluten. I won't ever eat junk food again. So it's fantastic. And then I just kept progressively, you know, wanting to move closer again. So it's fantastic. And then I just kept progressively, you know, wanting to move closer to a plant-based lifestyle. And one day I woke up, you know, 12, 11, 12 years ago, and I just said, I'm going to go completely plant-based. My wife was like, oh, what does that mean? What does that mean? Me too? I mean, if you want to, it'd be kind of cool. And we did. You know, she's the greatest supporter in the world and she's the you know my best friend in the world but but sadly no she didn't jump in right away she was sort of like watching from the outside but she was like okay i'll eat with you

um and was very supportive um and would make me special food if I wanted it and whatnot but but very slowly but sort of over the you know I guess the six to twelve months have followed she was like okay I'm gonna be plant-based 90% of the time I was like that's fantastic so she did and then she eliminated all meat and then she eliminated all chicken and all and then eventually she was just doing fish every once in a while and was like this is what works for me and then eventually she was just like one day woke up i was like i completely got plant-based i was like cool and i didn't make much of it like i typically don't do um and then my family started to follow and it was more of like me listening to what everyone else was telling me

yeah but it's so hard man i can't find any snacks and I can't do this. And there isn't that. And it wasn't easy, right? I mean, we now have a lot of options in a lot of different places, but back then it was not the easiest thing to do. And then I was convincing my mother to go plant-based and my brother to go plant-based. And I was trying to get my wife's family to go plant-based, my sister to go plant-based. And was trying to get my wife's family to go plant-based my sister to go plant-based and eventually everyone came around but they came around at their own pace but still were kind of like you know we can't find stuff and then I remember that I was I was doing a lot of touring and I was going on a music tour that was taking me to Africa and I was like all right I'm just going to go to Whole Foods and stock up on a bunch of like bars and whatnot because I don't know what

we're going like really random places and we were building water wells for communities. So I knew that I was going to be in places where food was not going to be easily accessible, good food. So I thought, all right, I'll just buy a bunch of bars, and I'll bring them with me. And I went to the market, and I did that sort of exploratory process. I picked up a bar, and I was like, oh, vegan. I turned it around, and it was like monodiglycerides. I'm like, what the, like, what, like, who, why? And then I was just like, I think I'm just going to make some bars and bring stuff with me. So I started tinkering around with stuff. And then I was like, you know, I've never been much of a reactive person. I've always been super proactive about the way I live my life, how I encourage other people to live their lives.

I could do this as a side project. And I just sold my business. So I was like, I'll just start this and it'll be like a cool little side gig. And then I'll create a platform online and I'll empower people with information to live a healthier lifestyle. And I'll give tips on recipes. And I just had this idea and I'll give exercise tips and I could do like both. Oh, this is going to be fun. And I was literally traveling. I was traveling seven days a week, but I was like, I'm in hotel rooms all the time. I'll just, you know, write, I'll create a blog. And we and we you know just kind of formalized it and thought it was going to be just a little passion project and then the passion project just kind of took off because i didn't build it for me i built it for the world and i think that's the best way to build anything is to just build it

for other people not for yourself and when you do that then the world just embraces it and it was i remember that um there was a little magazine back then which is now a monster on veg news um they voted us best tasting bar like our first month out and i was like that is so cool it was like i'd won a noble peace prize or something i was like this is awesome i was like mom look and she's like you know what is that i was like it's a you know vegan magazine she's like oh that's nice that's cool it's really cool but it's really beautiful because the the the vegan the plant-based community embraced us right away and then it started to kind of just slowly make its way

mainstream and the reality is that i did not design it as a vegan company i designed it as just a plant-based company that would be for the world. I just want to make great food that heals people and nourishes people from the inside out. And it just so happens that all of our products are plant-based. So our commitment was always to making it plant-based and always USDA organic and never diluting, never taking Target calls you or Walmart calls you. We love your brand, but we want you to make us a bar that's 34 cents. And you're like, there's no way I could ever do that. Cause it's just not, well, when you make us a 34 cent bar, you could have, you know, you could have four feet on our shelves and it's tempting. But at the end of the day, we knew that we had started to do something

greater and, and that we want to continue on this path because we're having a great time. And the space is just now starting to, to, to really get fun. So it's,. So it's a fun time to be where we are. Let me turn that back just for a second. And I know that you went through this really transformative process and you had an insane amount of success with your book. And it's almost like that overnight success story, right? That was much more than overnight. But all of a sudden, you're everywhere.

Rich Rolls, this guy, you're a rock star you're on in the Wall Street Journal the New York Times and ever I mean you couldn't click a channel without seeing something about your book about what you were doing what you had overcome because I think it resonated with so many people under and your struggles whether it was professionally or emotionally or socially and then you write a book and it's a monster and then you're just sitting around saying what else am i going to do with my time and you just decide that you're going to do a pot how does that how does how does rich roll the attorney become like the

hottest podcast in the space thank you will you travel around with me and introduce me at other speaking gigs? First of all, how much time do we have? Minus five? We're in overtime? Five minutes? Five minutes to answer that question. Thank you. Yeah, the 10-year overnight success story, really.

You know what I mean? It's funny because the way that you just sort of articulated that makes it sound like everything happened really quickly and really easily and without any effort or toil or pain or tears. But the truth is, it was a rough decade. Even after... Joey's the one who should be answering this question. But even after Finding julie's the one who should be answering this question but but um even after finding ultra came out and i was like nobody at the time a first-time author

nobody really knew me at all um you know we went through a lot of a lot of financial hardship we thought we were going to lose our house and and ultimately we got a gig like on kawaii and we moved our family to this organic farm on the north shore of kawaii uh after finding ultra had come out and like we didn't know what was going to be next and we didn't and i and i had made the decision to sever ties with being a lawyer i was a corporate lawyer before that sever ties with being a lawyer when my book came out and the truth is like leading up to that i've been kind of weaning myself off of being a lawyer but I formally said I'm done with that so now it's like stepping into this idea this world of like being a like I don't even know what you would call it like

people call it a wellness entrepreneur I think that's kind of a weird title but like the idea of trying to definitely not trying to trying to find a way to support my family well well sort of being an ambassador of this movement and this lifestyle and figuring out a way to make that sustainable for my family. And not knowing what the answer to that was, but having faith that if I stepped into it and owned it completely, that the universe would show up and provide the path. and owned it completely, that the universe would show up and provide the path. And that's a very kind of trite, simple thing to say, like, oh, the rainbow comes out and here's how you do it. That's not what happened at all. There was a lot of missteps and a lot of mistakes and some painful times, some really hard times. But, you know, we were in Hawaii and we had this great project that we were getting paid to work on, and we were thinking maybe we'll just move to Kauai.

Anything was possible at that time. The rug was getting pulled out from underneath us in a big way, though, and we were really forced to meet our maker and have that conversation about what is truly important. What do you stand for? This is your life, and it is happening now, and what are you going to do with that? Like you wrote this book, people enjoyed it. They responded to it. How are you

going to take that and make something more impactful from that? And, you know, podcasts were just something that I had spent a lot of time listening to when I was doing a lot of training for these crazy races. And I'd often thought, well, maybe I can contribute something to this medium. And this was 2000, this was 2012. Yeah. So it's not like, I mean, podcasts had been around for a while. It's not like I was brand new to it. I think they started hitting the internet around 2008 or seven or something like that. So it wasn't like I was an early adopter, but it was definitely before podcasting was like a thing. Like it wasn't cool to start a podcast when I started a podcast. And I noticed in the health space, no one was doing anything. No one was doing what I wanted to do, which is to really sit down and have long form in-depth conversations and get to the bottom of,

you know, how we can live more healthy in a broad spectrum of ways. There was very specific fitness podcasts, and there were political podcasts, but I saw an open space, and I felt like I could contribute, and I just started. I didn't have any aspirations that it would grow into becoming this big thing. I just began, and I didn't know what I was doing at all, and it just kind of evolved and grew from there. So it's been a blessing and a beautiful thing to be able to have a voice and a platform on a medium now that has blown up and grown because of all these amazing shows that are now coming out like serial was a big deal and that and that

introduced a mainstream audience to podcasting and and uh and this idea that you don't have to be reactive in terms of the media that you absorb in your life. Because of DirecTV and Video On Demand, very few people sit down and just turn the TV on to see what's on. Unless it's a live event, you make conscious decisions about how you allocate that time and what you choose to allow in. But people still go into the car and turn the radio on and just listen to whatever somebody else decided to share with you. And the great thing about podcasting is you can basically program and control what you want to allow into your ears throughout your day, whether it's when you're commuting or working out. And I just fell in love with that medium as a way of personal growth. And now it's exploded. There's like 600,000 active podcasts. So the fact that my podcast has a place in that top

echelon means a lot to me. And I take it seriously. And I try to leverage that platform to the best of my ability to provide the most conscious and the most helpful message that I can. So before we go, because this is, I think this is so amazing. So you have this book that's like a monster bestseller. You guys have all, I'm sure you've all read it. Who has the book? All right, so it's an amazing book. And, you know, people think that you're making $100 million because you have this book in the New York Times list that just refuses to leave.

And it's the exact opposite at home. And the fact that you're smiling through it and that you can still think productively tells me that your heart is so in the right place because if that's not a testament of who you are and the things that are valuable to you, then I don't know what is. So man, congratulations. It's so absolutely amazing. It really is. And so my question is, so you're already killing it in the podcast. What's next? A cheese line? The cheese book is also going to kill it. The cheese book is,

is, is, yes, it's going to be this cheese is nuts. This cheese is nuts. I think that might be it. I might hold you to it. But so what's next? Like, is it a line? Is it a TV show? Where does this go? Because I'm sure that you're being pulled in everywhere I go, I see you. So you're speaking at just about every event. I'm sure you're being asked to go just about everywhere. How do you go from where you are today to where, what's the ultimate game plan? What's the goal? I just want to be able to continue doing what I do and whether it's video or television or podcasting or public speaking, they're all just different distribution methods of putting out the message that I'm already putting out. So I'm devoted to trying to expand the

depth of the content that I put out in the world and also the scope expanding the audience so whether that means you know a tv show i'm definitely going to write another book this year julie's got two books coming out this cheese is nuts and also plant power italia so she's killing it now and has her own podcast divine through line that everybody should listen to um and the italy tours that's just like, but yeah, and we're doing these retreats in, we have, we're doing retreats in Italy and Australia in February and in Ireland next July and then Italy in May. Yeah. So we're, so we're, so we're developing that aspect of the business, but I will say, you know, I'm open to anything, but I'm not doing the podcast so that

one day I get a TV show, you know, that's not what I'm doing. What I'm doing to anything, but I'm not doing the podcast so that one day I get a TV show. That's not what I'm doing. What I'm doing is just trying to continue to do what I do. And if opportunities present themselves, that's great. I'm not chasing anybody else. I don't need all those gatekeepers. I have a direct line to this audience as a result of the podcast. And to the extent that I can serve them better, that's my focus.

And if other stuff grows out of that, that's great. But I'm not sitting around waiting for any of that. And we're like way over time right now, but there's no way we're ending this without Marco telling us a little bit about his new book, which is Killing It Right Now as well. So share with us a little bit about that. Thank you.

Thank you very much. First, thanks again for taking the time to sit with me. I think the most important thing is that we all help each other. And like you said, when you fall, that someone's there to help you get up and that we support each other as a community I think is really powerful and really awesome. Thank you. Thank you, Julie. Thank you guys for coming over. I appreciate it. The book, I mean, I don't know. We have our third book out now. It's called The 22 Day Revolution Cookbook. It's a cookbook. It's a really easy cookbook.

We're non-chefs. My wife and I designed this book, and I stole a bunch of recipes from her. Every time I'd make something, her version tasted better, so it was just like, all right, I give up. So we've got a lot of really cool recipes. And it's sort of a continuation on the 22-Day Revolution. So just helping people, arm them with more tools and more recipes to move towards a healthier lifestyle. And before we leave, we want to thank you all for coming.

Thank you so much. Stick around. I don't know if you're all going to the burger battle or not, but stick around. And if you see us this weekend, say hello and introduce yourselves. Thank you for coming. All right, you guys, I hope you enjoyed that. As always, please make a point of checking out the show notes on the episode page at richroll.com. If you're so inclined, I'd love it if you shared the show with your friends on social media. If you haven't done so already, please leave a review on iTunes. Helps us out a lot.

And while you're at it, click that subscribe button. Next time you're going to shop on Amazon, it would be great if you click through the banner ad on my website or typed in richroll.com forward slash Amazon first. Takes you to Amazon, buy whatever you're going to buy. Doesn't cost you a cent extra, but Amazon kicks us some commission change. And that really does support the work that I do. And on that note, if you're inclined to go a step further, I have a Patreon account. Really, really appreciate everybody who has contributed to that. It means so much to me.

Really, really appreciate everybody who has contributed to that. It means so much to me. If you would like to receive a free short weekly email from me, it's called Roll Call. It goes out every Thursday. You can do that. It's free. It's usually just five or six items that I've come across over the course of the week, a documentary I watched, an article I read, a book I'm reading, a product that I'm enjoying. Basically, just simple stuff like that.

Often it's stuff I don't put on my social media. So if that sounds like something that would interest you, you can subscribe on my website. I'm never going to spam you. This is not about affiliate links. I'm not making any money off this. I don't put any affiliate links in it whatsoever. In fact, I don't even think that's lawful. I'm not sure how that works, but that's not what this is about. This is just about kind of extending the conversation in the community beyond the podcast. Also, I just found out that somebody put up a subreddit for the podcast on reddit.com. For the link to that, go to the show notes.

I'm gonna hook that up there. But basically, it's a way of creating comment threads around things that I discuss on social media, topics that come up around the podcast. And I think it could be a really cool way to kind of focus and convene this community in one singular place to kind of create that ongoing conversation. So check that out, again, by going to the show notes, and I'll have a hyperlink up there. For all your Plant Power merch and swag needs, go to richroll.com.

I got signed copies of our books, Finding Ultra and The Plant Power Way. We got t-shirts. You know the drill. I want to thank everybody who helped put on the show today. Jason Camiello for audio engineering and production. Sean Patterson for help on graphics. Chris Swan for production assistance and helping with compiling the show notes. And Theme Music by Analema. Thanks for the love, you guys. See you next week. Peace. Thank you.