The Rich Roll Podcast - Robin Arzón Wants You To Shut Up And Run

Episode Date: June 6, 2016

It's not that powerful female role models don't exist. They do. They're everywhere. We just don't do a good enough job celebrating them. So this week, I'm pleased to shine a bright spotlight on one of my favorite examples of female self-empowerment. Meet Robin Arzón. At the height of her corporate law career, Robin fearlessly left it all behind to embark on new adventures in the health and wellness space. She soon discovered her passion for coaching athletes, bridge running New York City, tackling ultra-marathons (she just completed her first 100-mile run and once ran five marathons in five days across Utah) and hosting wildly popular indoor cycling experiences that bear more resemblance to after-party raves than your typical spin class. But it's not what she does that makes Robin special. It's who she is. There was the time she was kidnapped and held at gunpoint. Then there's the recent Type 1 diabetes diagnosis that persistently threatens to sideline her active lifestyle. But Robin isn't interested in playing the victim. She's interested in telling a different story. A story writ large that involves constant reinvention and tenacious commitment to personal growth. A narrative that aims to redefine, reform, and rethink possibility through movement. Human performance art in motion, Robin is a powerhouse of positive vibes. Confident, colorful and courageous with a no bullshit attitude and NYC street cred for days, she is inspiration personified. And she's got a message for you: sweat transforms lives. Now Robin can add author to her resume, because her incredible new book Shut Up and Run: How to Get Up, Lace Up and Sweat with Swagger* hits bookstores everywhere June 21. Exploding with color, attitude and practical advice, Shut Up and Run is the ultimate embodiment of everything Robin. Equal parts fitness manual, self-help empowerment and coffee table photography book, it perfectly captures Robin's ethos and aesthetic. Overflowing with tips, tricks, and most notably her welcome inviting hand, Shut Up and Run is an utterly unique breath of fresh air in a world of drab running manuals. A book screaming with attitude that beckons you to join her. I love Robin. She's just an awesome person. And I really love her new book. So I was delighted to sit down with her once again and delve deeper into her fascinating life. Subjects explored include: * inclusivity & exclusivity within sports * commercialization of running * the evolution of social marketing * the courage to take the leap * trusting the journey * sacrifice & personal development * becoming the most authentic version of yourself * being yourself despite societal pressures * managing Type I Diabetes * Robin’s daily routine * Robin’s new book If you are a long-time listener, then you remember well her previous powerhouse appearances on the show — How To Undo Ordinary (RRP 99) & Do Epic Sh*t (RRP 137). If you happened to miss these conversations, I highly suggest checking them out. I think you're going to like this one. Enjoy the exchange. Peace + Plants, Rich

People have this need to apologize. And I think my entire approach to running is like, shut up and run, be unapologetic about who you are. Yeah, we can get better, faster, stronger, but I don't necessarily think that's the goal. If you're not enjoying the experience and the training miles, then I don't think it really matters what the finish line looks like. That's Robin Arzon, and this is The Rich Roll Podcast. What are you doing, people? How's it going?

What's happening? Greetings. Welcome. My name is Rich Roll. I am your host. Welcome to The Rich Roll Podcast, the show where each week I sit down with the world's best and brightest, the paradigm-breaking minds across all categories of health, wellness, diet, nutrition, fitness, athletic performance, wellness in general, entrepreneurship, artistry, creativity, spirituality, mindfulness, meditation. You get the picture, right? And I do all of this to help all of us unlock and unleash our best, most authentic selves. So thank you for tuning in today, for sharing the show with your friends, for subscribing to the show on iTunes, for taking a moment to give a review on iTunes. That helps us out so much.

Please do that if you haven't already. It's a weird small thing, but it actually makes a big difference in terms of the rankings on iTunes, and that helps with visibility, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Also, mad love to everybody who has made a habit of always using the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. Doesn't cost you a cent extra,

but Amazon kicks off some loose commission change. Really helps us out a lot. You can find that banner ad on any episode page on my site, or you can just type in richworld.com forward slash Amazon, same result. So I got my good friend Robin Arzon back on the show today. Super excited about this. I just love her. You know her. She's the one who went from corporate lawyer to ambassador of sweat and swagger. She's been on the show twice before, RRP 137, which was March of last year, I think, a little over a year ago. And she was also on episode 99, which was August of 2014. Two stellar episodes. She's definitely a podcast favorite. She's a

powerhouse. She makes quite the impression. So it was really fun to, again, sit down with her when I was in New York City earlier this spring and got a bunch more, of course, that I want to say about her in a couple of secs. But first. All right, back by very, very popular demand, we have my good friend Robin Arzon rejoining the podcast once again for a third time. If you're new to the show, you're in for such a treat. For the uninitiated, Robin is a former corporate lawyer turned ultra runner. She once ran five marathons in five days across Utah. She's currently training for her first 100 miler, which is amazing. She's a New York City

based running coach, a cycling instructor, a brand ambassador and consultant. She's basically female empowerment embodied. She is urban inspiration at large for just so many reasons, not the least of which is the fact that she walked out on her secure corporate career to pursue her passion, the fact that she not only survived a hostage kidnapping incident, she now uses this experience to fuel her direction and her gratitude, and the fact that she currently manages her incredibly active lifestyle while combating and transparently sharing her journey as somebody who suffers from type 1 diabetes, which is a diagnosis she only recently got a few years back as an adult. And now I'm very excited to be able to call her author because her freaking awesome new book, Shut Up and Run,

How to Get Up, Lace Up, and Sweat with Swagger, awesome title by the way, is hitting bookstores very soon on June 21st. And I don't even know where to begin with this book, awesome title by the way, is hitting bookstores very soon on June 21st. And I don't even know where to begin with this book. Or I should more aptly say, I suppose, that I don't know where Robin ends and this book begins or where this book ends and Robin begins because they're basically one in the same. Part fitness manual, part training program, part self-help advice, and part photography and color explosion. This book is sort of the literary manifestation bullseye of everything that is Robin. Her ethos, her aesthetic, her look, her voice, her guidance, her tips and tricks, her welcome inviting hand, her unmistakable message of empowerment, and her call to action, which are

message of empowerment and her call to action, which are all laid out in this really inspiring coffee table style roadmap starburst that's just screaming with attitude. It's a super unique book. That's the best that I can do in describing it. It's just something that you have to experience. And I love Robin. She's just an awesome, awesome person. And I've said this before, but as a father of two little girls, I'm really inspired by her shining example of positive female empowerment. I've got a 12-year-old daughter, Mathis. She's a big fan of Robin's. And that makes me really happy. It makes me happy that Robin exists and does what she does so that my daughter can look to her rather than who happens to be on the latest cover of Us Magazine or People Magazine. You know, women need role models.

Young girls need role models. with her signature swagger and just her beautiful smile and her positive shining example of what it means to be a strong, accomplished woman. So I'm really psyched to bring you this conversation today. It's just, it's really great. If you're new to my show, again, and you want to hear the full Robin life story, I definitely go back and listen to episode 99, then hit up episode 137. definitely go back and listen to episode 99, then hit up episode 137. iTunes only goes back to the most recent 50 episodes, but if you download my app on the App Store, my iOS app, you can access the entire catalog. If you're on Android, you can go to SoundCloud. I think SoundCloud has an app for Android. You can listen to the entire catalog there. If you're already up to speed, you've listened to those, then get ready to rock because Robin packs the heat. Enjoy.

I can't believe you're in my crib. I know. This is awesome. How long did it take? This is the Robin. This is the Robin. How long have you lived here? Four years.

Yeah. It's an eternity for New York. It's cool. It's a groovy neighborhood too. There's a lot going on downstairs. Can we please, when this is over, go down and like do some kind of dope Instagram in front of that David Bowie? Oh my God, please.

And I haven't even Instagrammed it yet. Oh, you haven't? I was like, it's weird because I saw that and I was like, I don't think I've seen that on Robin's. How is this not on her Instagram? How has it not been blown up yet on all social media channels? No, actually I've been waiting for the right moment. So I think this is the right moment. It's going to happen. Oh, this is so great. Okay. I'm excited. Cool. So what is going on? What is happening with you? It's been a year and a half since we, it was winter time.

That's all I remember. Okay, time, it flies. And I feel like everything is going on and nothing is going, I mean, I feel like I'm on the same rollercoaster ride, but I'm not getting used to the drops. Yeah, but there's a lot, when we talked last, there were a lot of seeds being planted

that are now- Yeah, things are sprouting. There's a lot. When we talked last, there were a lot of seeds being planted that are now. Things are sprouting. There's a lot of roses that are about to bloom on the Robin Arzon fertile soil. I feel so lucky. I don't even know. I mean, I think the biggest thing that's coming down the pipeline is my book on June 21st, Shut Up and Run, will be published by HarperCollins. And it's my baby.

I can't believe it. All right. So first of all, you just sent me like a draft galley or whatever via email like last night. I'm like wall to wall in New York going from like thing to thing to thing. And I'm like, I could have used this like a week ago. But so in all candor and honesty, like I didn't even look at it could have used this like a week ago but yeah so so in all candor

and honesty like i didn't even look at it until like an hour and a half ago because i couldn't and i'm on my phone scrolling through it but you had described to me before what it what it what it was what it was going to be and it is exactly that it's like but it's like super dope super robin Super dope, super Robin, super NYC, totally fun. It's completely your vibe. Like it's a really fucking cool book. I am so excited. Like I think, so I, when I was first becoming a runner, I was so intimidated by all of the, I mean, the running Bibles and the compendium

of information available. It's like, why so serious? Yeah, I think. And I was thinking about this earlier as I'm sort of going through my own training plan with a fine tooth comb and geeking out on technology and going super like the pendulum has definitely swung in the other direction but when I was writing this book I really wanted to take it back to how I fell in love with running which was lacing up in probably ill-fitting shoes

at 10 p.m at night running with my friends who are a motley crew of like night running with my friends who are a motley crew of like downtown les new york city yeah it's like miscreants like it was very simple warriors come out and play it's the war it's the warriors movie with with running but not running from the cops just running less violent less violent you know god willing less violent yeah um so yeah shut up and run it has training plans it has substance it has you know really my genuine approach to training and how i've trained for you know dozens of ultra marathons and upwards of 20 marathons and now my hundred miler but i kind of feel like there is just a lot of bullshit. Like, honestly, you don't need like a $700 Garmin watch for your 5K. Like, chill, bruh.

Like, I just think that there's a lot of noise that intimidates people unnecessarily. But people feel like they need to apologize for being newer, slower, bigger, smaller, whatever. Whatever adjective you want to apply to it that is making you feel lesser than. People have this need to apologize. And I think my entire approach to running is like, shut up and run. Be unapologetic about who you are. Yeah, we can get better, faster, stronger, but I don't necessarily think that's the goal. Um, if you're not enjoying the experience in the training miles and I don't think it really matters what the finish line looks like. Well, you've definitely accomplished that. It is exactly that because it has all the information, but it's presented in a very accessible and fun way.

Like it's not taking itself too seriously. And it's like, come on, you can do this. Like, let's do this together. And it's just blasting with like, you know, graffiti art and everything that you're about. Like your personality is like bleeding off every page. So it has the information, but it's also it's motivational and inspirational. And it's inclusive, it's motivational and inspirational and it's, and it's inclusive, I think, which is what you're getting at, like this exclusivity versus

inclusivity. Um, and when you were telling that story about people feeling intimidated, I think that's, that's a real thing, you know? And I remember going into a bike shop to get my first bike. And I was like, I didn't want to talk to the guy who worked there because I didn't know anything. And there's this weird kind of unspoken etiquette and air of like elitism that pervades those kinds of places that makes you feel like, oh, fuck it, forget it. Like, you know, I thought I wanted a bike, but like, I just, I can't even get it up to like, ask this guy a question. Cause I don't want to look stupid and I don't feel, you know, confident in, you know, what it is that I want to ask him. And so you just kind of pivot and stare at your feet and walk out the door.

What I find so interesting about experiences like that is I've actually found the running community and the cycling community, actually, as I've gotten more involved in it to be extremely welcoming. So I think it's more about yourself it's fully it is 100% what we're telling ourselves and like yeah there's gonna be like that that that isolated like douchebag at whatever race thinking he's he or she is fancy but largely speaking it's what you're telling yourself maybe not so isolated well at the i think at running

events it's it's rarer to find but i will say it's much more inclusive than like triathlon yeah and and certainly cycling y'all y'all think you fancy in the triathlon community as i give rich a side eye no no no i've had a really amazing experience. And my first try will be July, six weeks after my first 100 miler. How's the swimming going? Swimming is going. I got in the pool this morning. I saw that. Did you actually swim?

I did. Or did you just make sure that you got a dope Instagram out of the whole thing? Well, I got the Instagram photo out of the way first. Yeah, okay. And then I got in the pool and did some work. Priorities. I was like, hold up, hold up. I got to get this Instagram instagram shot nobody's in the pool right now this is gonna be epic priorities but i earned my selfie or in my earn my shot um yeah but i i do think we tell ourselves so much crap i mean you know you talk about it and i love it you highlight

it on this podcast all the time it like the internal storytelling and what that means. And I think for Shut Up and Run, it was, I wanted to highlight how it should be inclusive, but it doesn't mean, just because you're welcoming everyone doesn't mean you can't be kind of ferocious about it. Like I think that there's, like, a combination of mining away at our better selves

in a way that's kind of competitive. Like, I believe that we should be competitive with ourselves. And unapologetic and uncompromising. Like, stand for who you are. Like, stand your ground, you you know be in your power and like don't compromise like take it seriously we'll have fun and we're this you know motley tribe or whatever you know warriors but but there's something real going on here that's empowering i i think that i want to keep keep the the experience of movement light enough to get people in and serious enough to make sure

people understand that probably the most important thing that they will do in this world is move their own body weight through the universe. Like, honestly, that is, for me, the definition of power. And that shit is super real. So yeah, like you might see a jazzy Pinterest post and like go to my Instagram and be like, OK, that's cool. But I really live this shit. And there's a lot of. You can't fake the funk. There's a lot of there's a lot of people trying to fake the funk out there.

So, first of all, that brings up an interesting point. Like Mathis, my 12 year old daughter, who's obsessed with you. She's like, are you going to see Robin when you go to New York? Have you seen her yet? Your kids are so awesome. Whatever. So Mathis says hello. Tell her I said hi.

I would love to hang out with her. She's so badass. You got to come out and come to one of her hockey games. Please. The photos you post of her, I'm like, so proud. Yeah, she's cool. She's so amazing. She's very cool.

But anyway, she's like, make sure you ask Robin about how that other clothing company tried to steal her style, her vibe. Oh, she fired shots. I love it. So basically getting at like what's real versus what's affected for marketing, you know, and you really do live this 24-7. Like I've been to your spin class. I see how you interact with everybody and you hit the streets and it's all day long every day for you I mean I truly yeah I self-identify as an athlete not because I plan on even ever winning a race I'm who knows maybe I'll never PR again I'm still a freaking athlete that doesn't matter like it

this is your lifestyle like you get up and your day is a continuous like workout that's interrupted by, you know, other things. It's not like, Oh, I got my workout done. Now I have my day. Like your day is,

you know, maybe your day is full of meetings, but you're running or cycling from meeting to meeting. And then you're teaching your class and then you're taking people out to go run through the streets. And then you have your bridge runners and then, you know, you're riding your bike home at midnight or 1am and that's a workout in and of itself as well so

everything that you do is kind of active and that's a extension of just your natural personality well thank you wow you described my life perfectly i mean that i think that that's pretty accurate um but i guess to get to the point of i'm so reticent to be like someone so isn't a real runner a real athlete a real whatever like who gets to make that decision well i think that i think that there is such an attraction right now to the pretense or the aesthetic, not the pretense, the aesthetic of being an athlete. Like even on runways, like you see that sort of hybrid sport and fashion. And I do see brands trying to hit at sort of the urban athlete or the urban athletic experience.

And then I see instagram models and faux i don't know just people who are trying to present as if and i just don't believe in doing anything as if um it's any it's like any other movement that's been usurped by for commercial purposes it's no different i mean historically it, it's been done thousands of times, but I'm just, I'm just very sensitive to it. It's the nature of commerce. But when it's, when it,

when, when it gets, when they're stepping on, you're welcome, Matt. Yeah, man. I mean,

there's like, there's this chick on Instagram and she came out with this, this, this line. And I actually don't, I can't even speak to the line. I'm sure the clothes might be great but what really hit a nerve was that she came out with this video launching the line and she's like

running two blocks from where I live and spitting on the ground and trying to look all aggressive I'm like okay queen um that's not working so we can go on a real run, though. Like, we can chain for a real race, because that is bullshit. And I think it's just people acting as if they are part of something. And it's like, if you want to be part of it, you are more than welcome to actually do the thing. But don't take a photo as if you were doing it. And then, you know, go whatever. Do whatever the hell go back to your online shopping whatever the fuck i'm like i'm not down well that's that that's a good place

to get into kind of a recent development since we last talked which is which is that you you're now like this adidas sponsored app and like literally there's like billboards of you all over the world and did there was a commercial that aired during the Super Bowl. The Grammys. Oh, the Grammys. I didn't watch the Super Bowl. But it's the one that I saw, right? It's super short.

Yeah. It seemed like too short for a TV commercial. Well, there's a YouTube spot that was 30 seconds. And then I think they spliced it for the big national debuts. Right. So how did this go down? Like suddenly your face plastered all over the world. That's pretty crazy.

It is beyond. Are you kidding me? Like I don't even understand what my life is. It's totally weird. But yeah, I signed with Adidas last year, 2015. And when I shot the campaign, the Here here to create campaign which was the one you're referring to honest to god i thought i was shooting something for like instagram or like twitter like i thought it was like not a big deal and then a few months later they're like oh by the way your

commercials airing in the grammys and you're in a campaign with freaking candace parker and like other professional athletes and i'm like oh okay i feel really intimidated by all of that are you like uh i need to go back and read my contract again well i just couldn't believe i mean you know i'm signed with them all year and i i really feel so grateful that i am aligned with with a company that is super, super emphatic about authentic storytelling. So there hasn't been a single moment where I've felt manipulated

or trying to be put into any kind of box. I so believe in unchecking all the boxes and then creating your own or just living in that fluid space where you're redefining yourself every day. And Adidas has completely been down with that. So from photo shoots to posts to the gear, I mean, I'm obsessed with the gear, running it.

I really do believe that Ultraboost are the best running shoes I've ever experienced. And that's actually how the relationship came about because I organically was posting about the shoes and I haven't done a single race not in those shoes in over a year. But yeah, I feel really, really grateful that I'm able to even be part of their storytelling.

And that they allow you to be who you are and they're not trying to make you into somebody that you're not in order to sell shoes, which, you know, brings up a consistent theme on this podcast, which is authenticity. Right. And I'm always trying to like check myself against that. Like one thing I did the other week was, you know, when I have to, the hardest part of this podcast for me is doing the intro. I was like sitting down. I want to make sure that I introduce the guests properly. And what are the things I need to make sure I mention and and I've always defaulted to kind of pretty much scripting it out and then and then speaking it and then trying to get it right and I'm like this just doesn't feel authentic to me anymore and I listen to it and it sounds stilted

and it just it just doesn't jive so it's like the point I'm trying to make is like I'm trying to put something out authentic and I'm constantly discovering areas in which I could be more authentic than I am. And then trying to like, you know, step into that. I think that's important. And I think as we progress through this, you know, more and more kind of like social sharing culture that we're in, like every month there's a new app that everybody has to be on. And now everyone's Snapchatting and we're all like sharing you know our entire lives i love your snapchat by the way thank you you've really upped the game i know i was like i hit these things and then i kind of like i didn't do anything today because i was like i need a freaking break oh yeah i took a few

days i know i know i know so like there has to be moments that are not that. I agree. But when you choose to share, it is more and more important that it be real and not contrived. And when you look at how that operates in the context of marketing and advertising with a big brand like Adidas, it seems to me that it's the obvious choice to work with someone like yourself as opposed to a professional athlete where everybody knows like, oh, well, they just have a sponsorship deal and they're going to wear that gear and they're going to say nice things about it. But what does that really mean? of driving purchasing, but it seems to me that more and more, like, why aren't brands, why aren't all brands trying to find people with real authentic followings that already like love the product that seems to be more valuable to me than, you know, Shaquille O'Neal saying like, I drink whatever drink. I mean, I agree. I think that that's absolutely the future. I think that's actually the future of marketing is, is that softer sell.

I mean, you see these Snapchat stars. I mean, you have like YouTube sensations, like 16 year old kids with millions of followers. And like, if they're genuinely speaking about a brand, a product,

a drink, whatever, I mean, that's going to be much more effective. But I feel like brands are still reticent to really truly understand that i think it's inevitable but it's inevitable inevitable i mean these digital marketing streams are the future like i don't even think and do people even watch like regular tv i was surprised people even saw the my grammy commercial like people do than you think.

Yeah. I mean, I'm kind of like in a bubble. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting. Like I've noticed on Snapchat. So, all right. DJ Khaled, like,

is the king of Snapchat, right? Okay, wait. Is there anybody on Snapchat that like doesn't follow him? I am upset. He is like my Oprah. Uh-huh. He is like,

he is so inspirational. He gives these motivational speeches. He's so inspirational. It's crazy, you guys. Oh, my God. It-huh. He is like, he is so inspirational. He gives these motivational speeches. He's so inspirational. It's crazy, you guys. Oh, my God. It's amazing. And he's entertaining. And it's, you know, it's humorous because he's talking to his, like, lion statue.

Yo, we the best. And everywhere he goes, he's mobbed with fans. It's insane. But he started this vegan experiment where he's doing this thing, 22 days of nutrition, which is my friend Marco's company. And Marco's been on the podcast. So dope. And so like three times a day, he's like, yo, chef D where's my vegan meals, 22 days

of nutrition. And like throughout the day, he's constantly talking about 22 days, new 22 days of nutrition. I'm like, that is the, that is a stroke of marketing genius beyond you cannot get that kind of you know promotional airtime in a traditional way like that is a that that is the future i think of marketing i don't know how we got way into the weeds on this kind of this this is like a gary v conversation but i think but also like we're also voyeuristic. Like there's something about Snapchat that you feel like you're literally like, like you're not supposed to be there. Like, I'm just like, am I supposed to be watching this?

I guess I can be. It feels like, I don't know. You're violating your personal space. It's like slightly creepy, which like excites me. Maybe that's why it's so popular. I don't know. Honestly. And also it's, it's so, honest and also it's it's so it's

so much more raw than i think other platforms so that keeps it and the ephemeral kind of 24-hour thing i think that for me that keeps it kind of interesting yeah very cool so what does this relationship with adidas look like going forward i mean it seems pretty cool like where are these billboards there's one in tokyo right well yeah well i've seen yes i'm on this i'm on the soho store which is freaking that's so crazy so do people like stop you in the street now and go i do get stopped yeah i do yeah it's weird i don't even get it i can it literally leaves me at a loss for words, which is rare. But it's a weird experience to be recognized just because I run and I have like an Instagram account. Like, I don't know. It's just really bizarre.

And then like the Peloton family, the cycling studio that I teach at, like they're really engaged. And it's just been a beautiful experience to sort of meet people in real life that, you know, that you only interact with socially. Right. So this is your third time on the podcast, right? Yeah. It's your third time. So a lot of people already know, you know, your superhero origin story. There's some new listeners. So I thought it would be good because we're both, you know, former lawyers. There's a lot of cross section reformed lawyers to just kind of recap that quickly to to get people up to speed who maybe are listening to you for the first time.

Yeah. So I was a lawyer for seven years, a corporate litigator, and I was never, ever an athlete. I didn't run a single mile until I was like 23. And I fell in love with running as I was practicing law, kind of on parallel tracks. with running as I was practicing law kind of on parallel tracks. And I started running to sort of get over like this traumatic experience where I was held hostage in New York City. And we talked about that in the very first podcast. You want that whole story? Quite gripping. Yeah, I'll put show I'll put links in the show notes up to those former episodes. But thankfully, I survived that and sort of used running as a form of therapy. And I felt like I was leaving such a divorced existence between being a lawyer and feeling uninspired

and feeling so impassioned and enlivened, I guess, if that's, yeah, when I ran, that I ran out of a law career. And thankfully, social media kind of hit at the same time and i was able to monetize that experience of my love for running being you know just a street athlete thing you know people bash social media but it's given me a life that i could not would not have been possible without question question, I feel the same way. Five or 10 years earlier, you know? And so, and so one of the things

I kind of want to explore a little bit is something that comes up with me a lot. Like people say like, well, how do I, you know, how do I change my career? I'm like, how do I do what you do? And I'm always at a loss. Like I don't want to give, I don't want to give advice for that.

And, you know, quite often my advice is like, why are you quitting your job? You know, it's like, are you sure that's really what you want to do? And for me, there was no direct line. And, you know, part of it was irresponsible, I think, and perhaps premature. And there was no template for what I do. There was no, like, I didn't know that it was gonna work out in the way that it has. And it certainly didn't happen overnight despite whatever you might read on the internet.

So I'm interested in kind of exploring how that occurred for you, like how you developed the courage and the faith to make that leap and how you got from A to Z. It took about two years for me to leave my law firm. And I honestly left law thinking I was going to be a very traditional journalist. Like, storytelling has always been fascinating to me. But I thought I was going to be writing about other people.

Or writing only as sort of my medium. And people ask me that all the time. Like, how do I do what you're doing? And it's the wrong question. It's so the wrong question. And often I want to write back or respond like what part of what I'm doing? Because like,

or respond like, what part of what I'm doing? Because like, I think it's lost on a lot of people that it's not just about Instagram posts or I don't know, Adidas ads. Like when you're really hustling as a freelance sort of independent entity, the shit never stops. Like I'm 24 seven. It's like, seriously, what part is it? The 500 emails that I answered this morning? Is it engaging, you know, sort of preparing for my Peloton classes, doing my own training, or just simply networking? Like, planted, like you referenced the seeds.

I planted a lot of seeds when I was completely confused and I had zero direction. So I was like, I'm just going to plant a seed everywhere that I look. And if it's somebody or something that I respect and that sort of speaks to my gut, I'm going to engage that in some way. Whether it's pinging them with an email that they never respond to, which happened a lot. pinging them with an email that they never respond to which happened a lot or whether it's you know a revolutionary meeting like with cara goucher at the olympics who now like knows me and you know we're friendly like it's just i can't even that's bizarre but it never would have happened if i hadn't been bold enough to approach so it's kind of like you gotta be bold dude yeah but it's not contrived either it's not like like you set out and like, my goal is to have a billboard of me in Soho.

That's an external manifestation of you like blazing a journey that is authentic to who you are. Like, I think that there are, there's obviously practical approaches for leaving a job or a relationship or a scenario that makes you unhappy, of course. relationship or a scenario that makes you unhappy, of course. I've always been like, slightly impractical. Like I was thinking about this today, I just went to Costa Rica,

I have 100 miler coming up in May. And I went to Costa Rica. I didn't do a single run. I did a ton of yoga, but it completely screwed up my training. Like I'm definitely like two, maybe even three long runs behind in my training schedule, because I made the decision to make that trip. And I'm definitely like two, maybe even three long runs behind in my training schedule because I made the decision to make that trip. And I'm standing there thinking about my long run tomorrow, like, damn, this 20 miler is going to suck. I should have done, you know, and I'm just like regretting. But then I realized I always have a devil on my shoulder. That's at least 30 percent ratchet. It's at least 30 percent telling me like to make bad decisions. And I just own that.

I own that part of it. Like, even though I'm an athlete, I'm going to make. Is it a bad, well, it's a bad decision in the context of trying to get a PR, but it's not a bad decision in terms of like living a, you know, an interesting life. Yeah, agreed.

But I've had to accept that. I've had to accept that, that big or small, I guess it depends on how you look at it, dose of impracticality. Which is why when I'm giving advice to people, I'm like, maybe I'm not the best person to listen to because I'm just like a go for it, go with your gut kind of person. So when you get those emails and it's like, how do I do what you do? Or how do I get out of what I'm doing and step into whatever?

How do you respond to that? Okay, I'll be totally honest. step into whatever like how do you respond to that okay i'll be totally honest i only it goes back to the authenticity piece that you're just talking about because like if i feel like you're coming at me with that question trying to hack trying to take a shortcut i have zero respect for it and i will just shut it down with no response or worse for you a response that you probably weren't looking for you're gonna blast somebody I just really don't like it when people are looking for shortcuts as a way to avoid the grittiness because I think it's in the

grittiness that you earn your stripes like doing training and everything all the difficult conversations you have with anybody in your life, like all that stuff, like that is how you earn. I mean that, I think that's like, I don't know. I have a unicorn hanging on my wall. Like I feel like that's where unicorns live. It ain't all rainbows and shit. Like it's through, it's through hard stuff that magic happens. Anyway, so I respond to people who are genuine in unearthing something more and usually that involves like a little bit of background storytelling in in the in the approach and and you know i've definitely taken like informational interviews and calls and like even skype sessions

with people that just their story hits me and usually that comes from a bold and maybe even vulnerable place. Yeah, I think you have to be willing to endure a period of time in your life that perhaps is going to suck. You know, it's like you can't. When you began, you thought you were going to be a journalist. You're not a journalist. You know what I mean? So your concept or your idea of how you were going to land outside the law firm lifestyle is not the reality that you're living today.

So there's an element of faith and trust and willingness, courage and willingness to, you know, chase a threat or follow a threat and not be attached to any particular avenue. And kind of just it's in the showing up, right? It's and, and I think that's, you know, at odds with this life hack culture that we're in, like, how am I going to biohack my way to, you know, a career like Robin Arzon has. It doesn't work that way. People are so... Okay, I'm going to mention something I can't go into detail. So last summer,

I filmed this adventure series, which I can talk more about it when it airs, but I was supremely uncomfortable basically living with no worldly possessions. Weren't you about to go do that the last time that we talked? Yeah, well, it was funny because that show fell through and then a different show ended up materializing and it's like you totally have to

trust the journey well that's another example of what we're talking yeah you trust the journey but like i think i mean living like in the wild with nothing is obviously an extreme example i i totally don't expect most people to do that but i guess my point is like it's emblematic you don't expect most people to do that. But I guess my point is like, it's emblematic. You don't know what you're capable of until you go there and you go to the exact uncomfortable spot that you've been avoiding. Like we live in such a culture, at least Westerners live in such a culture where we're seeking shortcuts and hacks and apps and like multitasking, time-saving genie machines.

And I'm like, y'all are twisted. Like we need to get a little more centered, a little more grounded, and a little bit more intentional with where we're putting our energy. Like if somebody reaches out to me, a lot of times my first response

when I choose to respond is, how badly do you want it? Like really, how badly do you want it? Because same thing with training, same thing with anything like worth having. Do you want it more than, you know, going out until two in the morning? Do you want it more than potentially like, you know, nurturing a romantic relationship? Because those are sacrifices that I definitely have made to be sitting with you right now. Yeah, this came up when I was talking to Gary Vee. And he's like, you know, you have to do an inventory of your life.

And he's like, once you kind of do that, you know, most people, you know, eight out of 10 people are going to realize like, hey, the life I have right now, I kind of like. Like, I like going out with my buddies and getting drunk on Thursday night. Yeah. buddies and getting drunk on Thursday night. Yeah, no, I like watching House of Cards and all that kind of stuff that if you if you really want to shake things up and like, you know, jump into the void and take on this mantle of blazing the warrior's path and trying to, you know, create some kind of entrepreneurial self style lifestyle that you've been able to accomplish, it ain't going to be easy. And you're not going to know all the answers and have it all figured out. You know, and it's almost analogous to this example that I always use, like, and this kind of comes up in your book, shut up and run, like people who they want to know, like what kind

of running shoe they should get, or what kind of garment, you know, to get. And, and they don't, they don't really want the answer to that. They want that conversation to continue because that masks the fear of just going out and doing it. Of course. As long as I don't know exactly what kind of shoe is best for me, then I don't have to go out and run. Of course. It's like, how many issues of Runner's World

are you going to go through before you actually lace up and get the fuck out? It's the same magazine every month. Like, real talk. I mean, honestly, guys, I think, I mean, I think, that's why I wrote my book. It's like, shut up and run. Like, stop overcomplicating the situation.

Like, of course you're going to evolve and progress and like realize that X running shoe is better than Y running shoe and then get to a point where maybe you really should be investing in technology that's pricey. But it doesn't start there. It starts with literally the drive.

How badly do you want it? Are you going to get out the door? Are you going to sacrifice watching the House of Cards marathon? Are you going to sacrifice going out for a late dinner? I mean, it's those things that our entire lives are made up of micro decisions

and micro moments. And if we're simultaneously celebrating tiny victories and pursuing the next one, we're going to be be fine that's how i feel about it right so give me some more truth talk because i like that that was good don't get me on my pedestal no i mean i just i and i think i feel so i feel so encouraged that i'm constantly interacting with people who are who are at all points along their athletic journey, from people getting off the couch to really, really accomplished ultra marathoners who I envy and admire.

But I think, okay, so Kara Goucher, for example, I admire her so much. She's, I think, one of my favorite professional runners on the planet. She had a tough go trying to make the Olympic team. She didn't make it for the marathon. And I actually saw her for a running event at Mile High Run Club in New York City a few weeks ago. And she was super honest about her failure. And I was just looking at this woman

who is one of the fastest marathoners, female marathoners in the world. And I was like, wow, dude. Even she had a fall that she had to ingest. You just have to ingest those grimy moments and honor them enough to process it. But then you reset your sights. And she was like, and I'm going for it in the 10K.

I'm going for the Olympic it in the 10k you know i'm going for the olympic team in the 10k and i was like yes queen i cannot deal with the pride i feel like i was like full on two snaps and a head swerve like yes bitch go like i love you and it felt so inspiring and i think people don't realize that yes i'm inspired by professional athletes many many of us are but you can also be inspired I mean I'm just as equally inspired by the person I see at a race who very evidently just started running and is like slogging along and I think the amount of courage that that takes well it's I mean the willingness to look bad to fail in front of other people to be completely out of

your comfort zone and doing it for yourself it's like heroic and courageous yes but i think that that's like the first layer of the onion i think that we are gonna we're gonna progress the grimier we're willing to get i think the more we're gonna to shine. Like, I think it's almost like, you got to like ingest that bad stuff, like the bad runs, the bad, the pain, like the physical discomfort, the mental discomfort. A lot of times this journey, this large journey, I guess, if we're getting all like waxing us existential and shit, I think it's so, it's so in our heads. Like when I started meditating a few years ago, it was almost like for six months of it, I was like, God, I don't even want to be in my thoughts that much. Like it was like frustrating, but now I can drop in within like 60 to 90 seconds. And I

find such solace even when my monkey brain is crazy, you so but if i didn't have if i didn't stick with it through six months of complete discomfort being like dude i really i don't even want to think right now i want to escape i want to unplug i want to watch you know the netflix marathon um we have such an escapist culture and i think people just need to drop in and like i don't know start drinking some mud like just get with it right and like, I don't know, start drinking some mud, like just get with it. Right. And, and that I think gets at the core of what running is all about for you, because it's not about PRS. It's not about like how many miles you log this week. It is, uh, it's a metaphor for a life's journey. It's a metaphor for stepping into, you know, to coin the theme of this podcast,

like your most, your best, the best version of yourself, you're the most authentic version of yourself. So can you speak a little bit about, like, running in the meta sense of, you know, what it means in terms of personal development? Oh, I mean, without I, I think it's so interesting also that it changes, like, even from the first time I did your podcast, I wasn't a type one diabetic. The second time I did your podcast, I think it was just before or after I was doing the Tokyo Marathon, just before.

And I had a horrible race. My insulin device ended up failing. And now I'm on the cusp of doing my first 100 miler. In that entire time, I've had 30 seconds off of a bq away from a bq and I still haven't done it I haven't pr'd in like two and three years and I had to sort of recalibrate like what that meant for me because for so long it was like shaping away at this goal shaving shaving shaving down in the time and I haven't PR'd since I was diagnosed with type one. And I'm just like, oh my, I don't, and I'm still trying to unpack that.

But I had to decide like, is this, is this journey of being a runner any less meaningful to me if I never reached this goal? And I realized that it wasn't, that like, I feel so much pride in what my body can do that I'm sorry, I'm not going to let somebody else's arbitrary time of 3.35 dictate how badass I am every time I get up for a training. Why would you abdicate that level of control to somebody else? But it took a long time for me to accept that.

And I'm not, and trust me, I understand PRs. I'm still going to go for it. Like, I don't think that we should just be like all airy fairy and like totally issue, you know, time clocks or anything. But I think that we have to be a little bit more, a little less heavy handed with how we treat ourselves, a little kinder to how badass it is every time we lace up. We try to take it for granted.

Like, it's like, oh, I just casually did this 20 miler. And then I see the reaction of some people, or like, same thing, like ultra marathoners are like, oh, I just lagged 200 miles this week. I'm like, do you know what that means? Do you know what you're doing?

You're pushing and pulling energy in this universe. Like, that's serious stuff. But I think oftentimes it's really lost on us when we're just so enmeshed in this universe like that's serious stuff um but i think oftentimes it's really lost on us when we're just so enmeshed in this world of talking about prs and shoes and we we i think i think the message sometimes gets lost yeah it's something that i'm grappling with right now because i haven't raced since 2011 wow and so what does that mean you know like and people say to me all the time when's your next race what's your your race calendar? Yeah, like, yeah, it's like I get I get out and I train every morning. And I'm training for the love and I you know, I'm not doing it with an agenda. Yeah. But I get sort of, you know, I start thinking like, what does that mean in terms of my identity as this like public person and this ultra endurance athlete? Oh, I got that. Yeah. I haven't competed since 2011 and you know, I'm busy doing, you know, it's like if I'm training to compete, then I don't know

how often I'm sitting down with Robin to have a conversation. Like there's other things like, I can't do everything. So what is the most important thing for me to be doing right now? And you know, the kind of excitement that got me out of bed in the morning, pushing myself to do these races has been supplanted with this enthusiasm for trying to, you know, spread a healthy message as broadly and as well as I can. You know what I mean? Dude, but that's so powerful. So what's more important?

And maybe, you know, I can be the best ambassador of this message by doing another race. Like, you know, I turned 50 this year. Maybe that's appropriate. I don't know. But like, there's an identity struggle that you were kind of talking about that, like, I definitely relate to. Because if I say, well, I'm not going to race anymore, then does that mean that I'm not an athlete anymore?

You know what I mean? anymore. Then does that mean that I'm not an athlete anymore? You know what I mean? Like, what does that mean? And does that mean that people will take me less seriously as a wellness advocate? Like, I get all caught up in my head about that. Well, no, they won't. But yes, I totally understand that. And then I do wonder, you know,

I'm training for my first 100 miler in May. I'm doing the Keys 100 and I feel totally underdrained. Excuse me. But I wonder after that, that like do i have to go longer do i have to go fat like like right how there's no end to that oh there's always something crazier you can do yeah and and this is an external pressure like this these are the internal conversations that are making us feel less than which it keeps us driven, but it's also, you have to know when to temper that. You have to know when to balance that little voice

that says can't. I don't always know how to do that, but I do try every day. So what's the number one thing that you think prevents people from shutting up and just running? Oh, man, I think. OK, well, up that little voice is to get the hell out. If your body is moving and you are uncomfortable, nobody ever, I don't think anybody ever regrets a run. They only regret the runs that they didn't do.

It's so powerful, dude. You ready for this? It's so basic. Mood follows action. Hell yeah. Oh, 100. And by the way, I didn't invent that. Yeah, I don't know, but it's a good one.

I might tweet that later. You cannot think your way out of your funk, but you can act your way out of it. The only way to shift how you feel about yourself or the world or something that's going on is to take an action. But most people, our default is to sit around and wait until we feel better before we take the action.

But I also think we're so dependent on external things for how we feel. Like other people's validations. And even when we're trying to self-soothe, we don't self-soothe anymore. We turn to our phones. We self-medicate. Well, self-medication. I mean, my God, that's like a whole nother. Yeah, we self-medicate we sell self-medication I mean my god that's like a whole nother yeah we self-medicate a ton but I think also now technology is taking this role of like a weird security blanket and we were you know no pun intended we're running away from

how we can better ourselves we are such an amazing machine and the more i sort of delve into like i don't know mental gymnastics and like the power of the mind i mean i am fully on my hippie shit dude like i am like what i am i'm about to start levitating like this is not a game what the mind is so powerful what happened in costa rica costa rica oh god this is a big festival right yeah because i have friends that went to this event too envision is amazing so um yeah it's envision festival in costa rica and it's i don't know i think around 5 000 people went it's it's a music festival an eco workshop. They've got like artists who fly in from all over the world and it's four days in the jungle of Costa Rica. Just it's kind of a,

like a, like a, like a hippie tropical burning. It's a hippie tropical. Yeah. I mean, it is tons of burners went, um,

I'll be going back to burning man this year. Holla. If you're going visit street life camp. No, but, um, okay. So I am, I'll be going back to Burning Man this year. Holla if you're going. Visit street life camp. No, but, um, okay. So I am, I was, I had a chance to unplug in Costa Rica and I have these moments. I mean, the yoga I did out there was magical, but I did kind of feel like I set the intention of, I kind of went by myself. I had friends who were going,

but really the journey was pretty solo. And I had the intention of just like going literally wherever my gut told me to in that moment, whether it was like make a right turn right now or like sleep under this tree or like dance like a whirling dervish. Like I did until sunrise almost every night and the energy was insane you bring your own like tent and you're camping or do they have people camp they yeah no you have to arrange your own accommodation so some people rent houses some people stay in local

hotels but the majority of the festival goers camp at this on the site and there's um i mean it's pretty cool there's like a ton of organic and vegan food vendors. It was, it was nice actually to not have to really worry about eating healthy food, especially abroad. But, but I just think the, the energy that people bring to it is so amazing. And every time I go to these festivals, I'm like, man, if only we could carry that into our everyday experiences. And I do, and I try, but I'm also like, then like two seconds later, I'm like, man, if only we could carry that into our everyday experiences. And I do. And I try. But I'm also like then like two seconds later, I'm like meditating.

Then I'm like flipping somebody the finger like I can't. Right. You know, I'm human. Why is that? I don't know. These external stimuli like set us off. But everyone leaves events like that fired up. Oh, and like so like you're hugging cab drivers.

I mean, you're just like you know i'm like high-fiving the flight attendants on the flight home like it is just what the vibe was in new york city post 9-11 exactly you know it resetting back to kind of normal yeah and over time but but we have such short short attention spans but even i think even shorter memories like these catastrophic things happen around the world and then then two seconds later, we're like back to like the next Buzzfeed article. I'm like, and even I do it, I'm successful, do it too. And I, and I'm aware. So I mean, I think that I'm always fascinated by the practice of yoga. And, you know, my yoga teachers always remind me like yoga is called a practice for that reason.

You don't reach this final aha. You have a million of them along the process, God willing. And I guess I always, I mean, I have things like from alarms on my phone to post-its in my apartment that kind of constantly remind me who I really want to be. And I think that that omnipresent reminder is actually pretty essential for anybody

who's like interested in that sort of quote unquote wellness betterment path because we are going to be pulled in so many different directions. I mean, who is, I think it was like E.E. Cummings. I'm going to bastardize and paraphrase, but it was like, you know, being yourself in a world that's always trying to change you is one of the greatest accomplishments you will ever, you know, succeed at.

And I think that that is. But being trying, being you, despite all these pressures. Yeah. Like I think. To be something else. I think I often feel like I'm a modern day octopus like I'm being pulled to the point

of breaking in a lot of days and social media is my blessing and my curse this amazing career that I've constructed can feel like a lot sometimes and And I am not alone in that experience. Like what, no matter what you do, whether you are a stay at home parent or you

are the CEO of a company, I think that we are living tethered to a lot of things. And more than anything, we have a responsibility to find what grounds us. For me, that was definitely running and later meditation. And I think whatever your entry point is, whether it's like making a mean pasta dish for your family and that's your Zen, whatever. But we do have responsibility, I think, to this world to cultivate that energy that I experience at these festivals. I think to this world to cultivate that energy that like I experienced at these festivals, I do think we have a responsibility to kind of like get on our Zen and be better people

and create healthy boundaries around, uh, you know, around this device that we all have, uh, that is like the ultimate, you know, time suck and time saver. Like if you're waiting in line, suddenly waiting in lines are like no big deal because that's your opportunity to go, you know, check whatever's happening on the phone or you walk into a party and you're even

the slightest bit uncomfortable, pull out the phone and look at your phone and look like you're doing something. Oh, that's such a good point. Whatever it is, like it is the ultimate like companion

to distract you, to take you out of the moment. And ironically also, you know, for both you and I, it's been the device that's helped us craft lives beyond our imagination. So it's a complicated relationship. I mean, I haven't even thought about that, but we spend so much, so little time

actually being even bored or uncomfortable. Like that feeling of, there's no need to ever do that. And there's never, there's never a need to be present if you don't want to be present anymore. I miss, I miss like, I want someone to call me on a rotary phone.

Like I want a landline. And I, I mean, I wish it would, I wish it were functionally. A rotary phone would i want a landline and i i mean i i wish it would i wish it were functionally a rotary phone would look perfect in this apartment it would go perfectly yeah i've got an eclectic eclectic situation going on in here but um i don't know i'm i often find myself like nostalgic for time periods i didn't experience even like in this lifetime anyway uh but yeah I think we are not the first humans to have complicated relationships with technology nor are we the

first ones to sort of contemplate what it means to feel like grounded and centered like everything is a mixtape we're just reliving the mixtape. You just got to find which cadence works for you. I think. Has anybody with type one ever run a hundred miler? Yes. I believe my friend. Yes. My, I'm'm pretty sure my friend Stephen England has done a few and he's type one. And how is it all going? Like, I want to get into that a little bit. Like, you know, on some level, you know, for better or worse, you're the type one diabetic athlete. And that carries a certain, you know, responsibility in terms of how you advocate to that community. Yeah. And how it's kind of impacting and affecting you, you know, advocate to that community and how it's kind of

impacting and affecting you, you know, on a day-to-day basis, just the disease itself. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's funny, like when I was first diagnosed, I was getting used to the technology, whatever. And now I kind of have found a good balance of insulin management and figuring out, you know, how I take insulin and when and and how to stay sort of within certain blood glucose numbers and, you know, reducing my A1C and all that stuff. But it is hard as hell i mean i'm not gonna lie to you like i guess i forget i i forget what it's even like not to be a type 1 diabetic and that was only a few years ago and it's something i think about 24 hours a day. And I think because we all juggle so much, like I'll literally be like dropping to a low, you know, 60 seconds before I'm supposed to go live

teaching a cycling class. And it's just, it's my new normal. But it is like, when I take a step back, I'm like, this is, this shit is crazy. Like the things I put my body through while still trying to like, you know, not have such a low that i like you know really harm myself or have a high that's it's bad for me but um thankfully

i've really reached a balance and type 1 diabetics have increasingly started to reach out to me and especially now that i'm i'm in the adidas ads wearing my omnipod which is an insulin management device that i usually wear on my arm. You have this thing that looks like a pack of gum on the back on your tricep. Yeah. And Adidas, that's part of like back to the thing with them. Like they didn't they could have Photoshopped that out. They didn't.

And that's part of my story. And I think that that's a beautiful thing. But more people have been reaching out to me because of that. And the number one question I get is like, how do you do that? But of course, for something that's medically related, it's so nuanced. It is, I mean, it's so incredibly nuanced. But I think I'm risky. Like, I'm not going to lie.

I go on these long runs and I have no business even like, not that I have no business doing it, but it, I have had doctors be like, are you sure? Like, really? Like,

I'm not sure. And then I'm like, okay, well you're not my doctor anymore. Like I just, I'm just really, it's not, it's not a thing where it's like,

okay, I got to figure it out. Like I know the recipe so I can do these runs and it's going to be fine. Like, because you've gotten into trouble with these races where you thought you had it sorted out and then it doesn't quite work out. And suddenly your blood sugar is not where it needs to be. Yes. thing that I did last summer was, I mean, there were real moments where I was super scared, where I was like, okay, I don't know, this may be a not coming back from it type of moment. And thankfully, I'm still here. But being a type one diabetic has shown me

the breadth, it's widened the aperture of what I'm capable of and I think for better or for worse it makes me even bolder in the pursuit of movement and whatever other accomplishments I you know sort of see in my future and that is

that is the piece of advice I think I would give to other type ones like no you shouldn't be stupid no you shouldn't put yourself in the hospital are you going to have to be ballsy or ovary up whatever you want to call it yes boo you are you're gonna have

to be very uncomfortable and you're probably did you just say ovary up yeah because i feel like people are like oh he has balls i'm like okay well my my queens have ovaries like let's ovary up um but yeah we gotta get uncomfortable and I spoke at a juvenile diabetes conference last year. And there were some kids in the audience and their parents. And their parents, you know, had really genuine concerns about their health. And I totally get that. But I would really urge the parents out there of T1D kids to, you know, let them explore their boundaries a little bit because that's how they're going to see how strong they are and honestly start

to trust their bodies and really continue that conversation because that has been my biggest thing. It's just like dropping in and being like, do you have to accept the fact that you have to stop running right now because you're going to pass out? And like that, I'm such a stubborn person that sometimes I have to be like, okay, right. The training runs done. You have understandably terrified parents who don't want their children to be harmed.

And probably, you know, by and large are overprotective because they don't want their kids to get into a situation that could be, you know, crisis oriented. their kids to get into a situation that could be that's what i've seen oriented um but on some level you have to counterbalance that against coddling that creates an individual that's afraid of the world right yes and it's sort of like um it reminds me i talked about this with joe rogan on his podcast like there was i saw this um or i listened to this radio lab uh podcast and it was about i think it was radio lab oh, it was, what was it called? It's Invisibilia. Oh, you've been talking.

Did I tell you? Oh, I think I told you about this. You did tell me about this and I keep forgetting to download it. This dude who is blind and he develops this incredible acuity for echolocation. Yeah. He makes this clucking noise with his mouth.

He's like, and he literally develops sonar like he can, you know, the sound waves bouncing off the walls or or whatever his environment is dictate to him a visual picture that allows him to navigate the world so much so that he can go running and he can get on a bike and ride through a neighborhood, which is like mind blowing, right? And so his message, however, is not like, hey, look at this amazing thing, I'm so special. His message is anybody who's blind can develop this. I'm nothing special. The problem is that we're treating blind people like we're babying them and we're telling them that they're disabled and that they should be very scared of the world when instead we could be empowering them. And so I bring this example up because it's analogous to, you know, a diabetic

child. And it also like is interesting that you said juvenile diabetes, it's almost like a colloquial term. It used to be juvenile diabetes and adult onset diabetes. Yeah. And it's supplanted with type one and type two. And to be fair, it's called the organization's JDRF. But yeah, I mean, you're so right. Because juvenile diabetes is not the diabetes that is a result of diet and lifestyle. Whereas type 2, adult onset, is more a reflection of that. Not always, but... Yeah, generally speaking. Type 1 is autoimmune and type 2 is lifestyle-induced.

Yeah, lifestyle induced. And you have type one, but you didn't, you didn't, this didn't happen when you were a juvenile. This happened to you in adulthood. No, I was diagnosed at 32. You were like blindsided with this. Beyond, beyond blindsided. And what's crazy is that although I'm now, you know, a few years later, a type one diabetic athlete, I'm definitely in the best shape of my life. Like, I feel I think that's what's so crazy about having type one is that like 99% of the day I feel unstoppable. And then I have a low blood sugar. And I'm like, Wait a minute, I can't even think and I'm about to like, pass out what is it is. Maybe I don't know.

It's, it's, it's such a humbling experience being a type one diabetic. It's equal parts humbling and then equal parts empowering. Actually, not that I would wish it on a single person on the planet, but when you kind of overcome something like every day being a type one diabetic, you really do feel like, okay, now what? Like, I feel like I'm in a boxing match with the universe and I'm just like, all right, let's dance. Let's do this dance.

I got this. Because every time I sort of hit one step back, I feel like I'm even more empowered to take the next leap. Right. It's this weird dance with yourself, but not with yourself, right? The disease is its own entity that doesn't have a face. Although you have a little like thing that looks like a cell phone. You have to pull out all the time and look at people. I'm sure people just think you're looking at your phone. They do. And I actually feel really bad about that. Like if I'm at a dinner or something and I'm like, oh man, like this is insulin.

It's not like a first generation Blackberry. It looks more like a Garmin for the bike. Yeah, yeah, it does actually. It totally does. Yeah, so I do feel bad taking it out sometimes, but I gotta live. And speaking of the bike, like how's it going over a Peloton?

Explain what Peloton is for people who don't know. Oh my God, I love my Peloton family. So Peloton is an indoor cycling bike that is equipped with a screen that allows you to live stream our classes filmed from new york city and so i film i'm an indoor cycling coach and our instructors film from new york live and then when you can't catch us live, we have an entire library of on-demand rides. So it's literally the Netflix or, you know, Hulu of cycling.

So, um, you know, you can ride with us 24 hours a day. Yeah. It's crazy that there, there is the studio in New York city and it really is. It's a studio.

It's a studio. It is a full functioning multimedia studio. So you go in and, and you know you do the class like any other indoor cycling class in this really cool environment but there's like a crane arm that's like you know like passing above your head like everything is being filmed and broadcast yeah live too right so it's live and also logged so it's live and logged exactly live and on demand anyone in and we have an app anyone anywhere in the world who buys one of these bikes that come with this incredible screen on them can tap into any one of these classes and either do it live or so can you get an account and and like

get the classes on your ipad or do you have to have the bike no so you can do it you can do it on your ipad on your iphone right now it's only it's only available on those two um platforms unless you have the bike and now the now the console your account is connected to strava so a lot so the strava users and especially the outdoor cyclists are like totally geeking out over that um the interactivity of the bike itself to different social media platforms like Strava Facebook really has created this powerful community around the bike I mean as you can imagine like you might be riding from you know your balcony in Santa Monica but you're like racing somebody who's riding from Tokyo and the two of you can see each other on the leaderboard.

And then you become like real, quote unquote, real life friends on Facebook. I mean, it's just the layers of it are so beautiful. And I interact with folks. I can see people riding from my screen, you know, on my leaderboard. So then I shout them out and we kind of have interplay. And then after the ride, I can sort of see how they did and and we and we celebrate people's 50th ride 100th ride first ride somebody just celebrated their thousandth ride i mean it's really it's incredible i mean i say that shoes were an

instrument in my liberation and i witnessed every single day this bike being a tool of liberation for i mean honestly thousands of people like it's beautiful it's a really cool company what's the every single day, this bike being a tool of liberation for, I mean, honestly, thousands of people. Like it's beautiful. It's a really cool company. What's the guy's name? John Foley? Yeah. Yeah. He's a visionary. He absolutely is. He's created with this. And what was cool is you got to go and like ring the bell at NASDAQ recently? Oh my gosh, that was the coolest. Yeah. So John Foley and Peloton was invited to ring the bell at nasdaq ring the closing bell so we just were on set close and i had i had such a moment because i remember the i used to represent a lot of finance people as a corporate litigator and i remember like around the time the

bell was closing like i i couldn't really interact with my clients like i kind of had to be like you know like yeah i had extra special and then see how the market was doing whether i could like send them this email or not send this email you know it was like did the market do well that day you know and i'm sitting on this peloton bike closing the nasdaq bell with my fellow peloton fam and i just had this moment like oh my god three years ago i was a lawyer and now i'm sitting here closing the Nasdaq bell wearing a sports bra and I was just like I feel this I want this trajectory of my life is so insane and I'm smiling ear to ear because I just like can't even believe it yeah it's crazy I mean my version of that is I got asked to go back and speak at my law firm where I used to work that's awesome

bizarre one of the main partners in the the firm somehow got his hands on my book and he was reading it and he didn't know, like from the name on the cover, like he didn't remember that I had been an associate. Oh my gosh. So he was reading.

He started reading it and then he was like, wait a minute, like I know this guy. And he's like, oh, and now he's talking about, and he's like, what? And then that led to him.

That's so neat. And then, yeah, coming. And then yesterday I did a speaking gig at Deloitte and I was introduced by the general counsel of Deloitte, like the general counsel for like the whole company, which is like a huge thing. That's major. Right.

Yes, that's major. Crazy boardroom. And this is like, I'm like, what is like, like when I was a lawyer, I couldn't, I couldn't get away from places like that. Like, like when I was a lawyer, I couldn't, I couldn't get away from places like that. And like now I'm getting invited back to like share this. It's just a, you could not script this stuff and it's not happening because I planned it or wanted it to happen. Exactly.

It's an extension of, you know, what we were talking about earlier. Dude, it's what you're putting out into the universe. People want to eat it up. That's beautiful. That's great. All right. So what happens when like George Hincapie christian vandervelde and like all of these superstars of cycling roll into peloton and take your class these guys are so

and they take instagrams do it i saw it recently like like it was george hincapie and christian vandervelde like taking it right in front of that peloton yeah, like at your studio. And I was like, that's true. Well, George and Christian are amazing. And they've taken my rides. And it's actually amazing. And like Alex Howe is like some of the younger ones. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They've taught too. So I had like, I don't even know,

seven or eight members of Team Garmin sit front row in my ride and take a Taylor Swift versus ex-boyfriends ride it was a musical theme so it was like Taylor Swift and freaking like the Jonas Brothers and it was like the poppiest cheesiest music you could ever imagine do that on purpose or was it already it just was already scheduled and the team Garmin just happened to be there right and I'm looking in front of me like these are some of the best cyclists in the planet singing along to shake it off like i i my my day has been my life has been made but it's probably really fun for them too because

it's like they're just used to i mean oh they're jamming out every day of course yeah for them i mean for them i think it was just like a fun you know a little fun venture but they do they teach classes on the bike at peloton so i mean when do people get to do that when do you get to to train with some of the best cyclists on in the world and at and on our peloton bike you you actually can yeah who else comes into peloton um of that team or just no in general like people you wouldn't expect that roll into your class oh god you have like you do these crazy like dj nights where you have like a guest dj standing next to you, so I'm teaching a DJ ride tonight. I decided I'm going to rock my purple wig.

I mean, it's like a party. It is a party. And I think some of the more surprising people who come. I mean, we have celebrities who have our bike and things like that. So sure, fancy people have the bike, but I think some of the more, like I have this guy, I have this guy,

Bruce who rides in the back of my ride, my hip hop ride jams out to like two chains. He's 75 years old. And I just love him so much because he doesn't care. Like he just goes and does his thing. And I don't even know if he knows what the lyrics mean. But he's just jamming. And those are the perfect examples of people who, no matter how tired I am, make me excited and ecstatic to be able to experience that.

That's cool. And were you with Peloton from the very beginning? Yeah. I mean, could you have seen that this company was going to kind of, you know, find its niche and grow the way that it has? Because it's really kind of exploded. Honestly, I read an article about the company and John Foley and I reached out to him directly. Oh, you did? Yeah.

And this was two years ago. So I think I was maybe the third instructor hired, third or fourth, two years ago. And they treat you guys like rock stars. I'm blessed they're they completely let us organically sort of rock they i mean it's speaking of authenticity like i think the breadth of of instructors that we have the consistent thread is that we're all authentic and athletic and then be then on that it's just like how many colors in the crayon box can you mash together because we are definitely like a funky crew right but everybody's probably you know some version of extrovert right yeah i mean you have

to you're up there in front of you're up there in front of you know upwards of i mean thousands of people end up taking these right each of these rides, right? So what happens when you have a professional cyclist doing it? Because it's like that's not their, like there's a theatricality to it. Yeah. Like these guys are professional athletes. They know everything about cycling, but that doesn't mean that they're going to be able to like get a crowd super excited. No, totally.

Like I saw, so Christian was teaching last, was it within last week or the week before he was teaching the class after mine. And he's like, dude, and you could see the class going live in the lobby. He moved to New York or something? No, I think Chicago. No, no. Yeah. They just fly him in.

They fly him in. So I think that like both Christian and George taught classes that same week. So I think that they were, and the first time they taught, they taught together. So they were both on stage and I took that class. It was a six, 60 minute class. Maybe it was a 90 minute class. It was really good anyway.

But, um, you know, I reminded, I reminded both of them, like when you have that engagement and people are working out, like don't be intimidated by the silence. Like sometimes the silence can

feel deafening because you're like oh my god i'm on stage what am i saying but you know people are just so jazzed to be taking a ride with them that like there's not as much pressure as they think and honestly their playlists were really good they played like really dope music they busted out with some hip-hop and i was like okay excuse me swagger alert okay got you all right where are you going with all this robin with he just dropped the mic on me what do you mean like my like what's i'm not talking about next week i'm like do you think about like where you want to be in five years or are you just in the moment of like what's happening right now um yeah i i definitely have um yeah i i definitely have big big plans i mean i i want to i want to revisit the idea of an athletic clothing line and i'm hoping you know some of my current brand partnerships develop

into that conversation i'm in discussions right now for my own television show, which would involve traveling and sort of the Robin experiment. What did you say? Ovary up. Ovary up. Yeah, so more TV work. I'm super excited about my book coming out. The documentary, Run It Out, that we filmed a few years ago

about my run across Utah with MS Run the US will debut on the festival circuit hopefully hopefully fingers crossed um in 2017 and beyond sort of the practice I mean sort of the the the merchandising and and and tv stuff I kind of want to always be having these conversations. Like the fact that anybody cares to view my Instagram or listen to what the hell I have to say about anything kind of astounds me. But the extent to which I'm making people laugh or inspire them, like I'll do it forever.

If people want, right. I'll do it forever if people want right like i'll do it forever as long as i'm as long as i'm laughing i'm good does anybody from your old law firm existence ever come into peloton or do you oh my god yeah from your other life i've had a few i've had a few partners actually ride with me and it's such a cool experience because i honestly i left my law firm in such good terms like i was i was an attorney at paul hastings for seven years and they they were always very clear they were great for me it wasn't like you left like i hate this no no you were like you had a good like no i wasn't like chucking law books across my office like i hate my life it just wasn't for me and it developed so slowly you know my love for running that i that i had a real deep deep love of the law for it's such a cliche

thing to say but i really did and um i i have had lawyers from my law firm come in and rock out with me i think i mean my class is explicit so i think that they're like whoa robin drops a lot of f-bombs she didn't really do that when she was preparing our motions um yeah judgment yo this is your summary judgment brief bitch whatever no no but i respected the hell out of the people i worked with and a lot of them follow up with me and it's especially after the adidas commercials came out they're like i think i just saw you during like basketball playoffs i'm like oh hi yeah it's especially after the adidas commercials came out they're like i think i just saw you during like basketball playoffs i'm like oh hi yeah it's it's funny that's cool what is a day in the life like it's different every day but i think waking i i try to stay consistent with my morning routine

of meditation and now of late i'm like one month into it i've started like 10 minutes of free writing in my mind i was like oh 10 minutes if i don't have an hour if i don't have a day if i don't have an afternoon like it's not worth it and then i realized just the consistency of the act even if i wrote nothing was helpful that's so important oh it's a huge point like oh i don't have two hours, so I can't write. Oh, that's... No.

That's what... It's the micro actions. And actually, Mishka, like, maybe even... Oh, gosh, it might have been two years ago. I don't even remember. He challenged me to write every day for a month.

Oh, I remember that. And I did it. And I really liked it. Was that when you were working on your book? Actually, it was before I even had my book deal. And I had chapters of my book written before I even got my deal because of Mishka's challenge. So thanks, Mishka.

And congrats on your new book. But I have had to, and I do the same thing also with training. Like if I'm like, oh man, I was gonna do eight miles today and now I only have time to do four. Like instead of being like, screw it, I'm not doing anything, do the four. So in my mornings now, I try to, I don't do this every day.

Sometimes I mess up, sometimes I'm too busy. But I try to consistently meditate for 20 minutes, write for 10. So it's like 30 minutes of my morning before I even pick up my phone that I kind of can get out whatever I need to get out and are you able to do that without looking at your phone first honestly I would say like honestly I'm successful 80% of the time that's good I have you know the the setting the little moon setting on your iPhone so I have that set to an automatic, like my phone, I don't receive any text messages after 11 p.m. And I don't receive any

until seven in the morning. So that helps me manage. So that way I don't have to have my phone on airplane mode, but I won't receive like the alerts and stuff. I gotcha. And I'm not always successful.

Are you kidding? I'm like totally a creature of whim so it does happen where i i don't do that but i will say i can i can i have a palpable i can feel a palpable difference in my day when i just do the those two things and when i don't do it i always i, I can rationalize and explain not doing it every single, like every morning,

I could probably give you like, Oh, there's always an argument. Oh, like, It's not hard to come up with that argument. I could give you 10 reasons why I don't have time, why I don't feel like it,

why whatever. But when I do, when I do start my day like that, I feel infinitely better. I'm such a nicer person, such a kinder human, and I'm actually more productive. And what kind of meditation technique are you using? I have a Vedic meditation practice. Oh, you do? Yeah. So Ben Tertian, who was a lawyer with me

at Paul Hastings, he is my meditation guru teacher. And he taught me a Vedic practice and gave me my mantra about two years ago. Right. That's cool. He's a former lawyer and he does stuff with MindBodyGreen. Yes, he does. Yeah. I'm familiar with all his stuff. Yeah. So, so yeah, Ben works with MindBody and I think that he, I think a lot of, a lot of modern day meditation practitioners and like teachers kind of get, get the realities of

learning meditation in an age where we're inundated with all this stuff but ben really does get it and he he suffered from sort of his home his own modern day as existential crisis as a lawyer and being unhappy so he completely understands that journey which i respect the hell out of but um but yeah i mean i think my my days involve i mean i train 35 to 40 hours a week right now gearing up for my 100 miler which includes my the classes i teach at peloton eight times a week um and then other than that it's i have about two to three photo shoots and video shoots a week for like press and and different publications i know you're always like, I got to shoot. I'm doing this shit.

I'm like, who are these people that are always shooting? Like, where is this coming from? Like, how does that work? Like, I'm mystified by that. I mean, it's like photographers popping out of like behind. Well, people joke. They're like, do you have a photographer like in your backpack? Like, where do these people take these photos of you?

Do you have a photographer in your backpack? Where do these people take these photos of you? But yeah, I mean, it's anything from stuff with the magazine that I co-founded, Undo Ordinary. So sometimes we're shooting for that. Yeah, so we have a cover photo right in front of me. So we just released the fourth issue. So it's been one full year in production. And Naivasha, who runs that ship, ship i mean i can't even take credit for the creative vision like that is completely her she's the design person well she co-founded undo with me

and she is absolutely like a creative powerhouse so anything from videos to print her she's like brilliantly talented she's she's really brilliant um and just her vision from anything from styling a photo shoot to picking a typeface. Like she just has a really a really gut instinct for what is progressive and what is undue, which is about, you know, ordinary people and ordinary experiences actually being extraordinary and undoing the mundane. So undo. So I shoot for undo. And it's anything like Mind, Body mind body green I'm going to be working with them I'm developing content with them I film stuff with Peloton all the time we have photo shoots and content shoots and you know I'm shooting with women's health later today and

I just filmed a series with health.com you know so it's uh it's a mixed bag of stuff but it's all really awesome yeah and you're doing this, do you have like, these people just contacting you directly? Like, how does that work? Do you have like an agent? I don't have an agent. I have a book agent, but that's it.

Everything else I negotiate myself. My assistant Tawana is an angel walking among us. She handles like, I mean, upwards. I mean, hundreds of inquiries a week, like hundreds. And so things kind of field through her. And then she gets me what I need to know. And then we set up the shoots, the Skype interviews, the phone calls, the conferences, the in-person meetings. And I kind of, I try to schedule things like, like now I'm scheduling through late April.

That's crazy. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That's amazing. And, and how's the, how are you going to roll the book out? Like, what is the, do you have like a strategy or a plan? So I just met with my PR team last week and I think.

So you have a PR team too. How convenient Robin. Now we're getting to the truth just let that slip out ovaries up actually every single person on my pr team is a woman uh-huh all right including from my book agent to my book editor all women and it makes it fills me with pride did you like the design of the book is so, like when you're talking about typeset and all of like aesthetic on the page,

like the book just screams you. So how, like do you have, was there like an in-house designer at the imprint that you worked with directly? Or like, did you come up with that yourself? Like, how does that work? So we work, I worked directly with Harper Design on everything on the book. And of course i wrote the book and then after submitting my copy we

kind of went through with pictures that that i had selected with the photographers i worked with and i mean we went through it kind of was so when like a designer is coming up with a line, they kind of have different colors for the, like a color scheme and a palette and an inspiration board. And that's kind of how we started because the book is not just a running book is I like to think of it as like a beautiful coffee table book talking about running. And it's, you know,

the plant power way is similar in that. Like, Oh yeah, for sure i mean you're a journalistic style coffee book like lifestyle thing at the same time yeah exactly and so this i mean this aesthetic i wanted it to be like reflected my experience of running through new york city because new york has been such a character in my running narrative boyfriend new york is my well yeah, yeah. Well, not anymore.

I have a new boyfriend. Oh, no, hearts are breaking across the planet, Robin. I picked one up in Costa Rica, brought him home as a souvenir. Oh, that's where he came from. Yeah, yeah. Otherwise, we would have never met. We're so different. I'm trying to get him on the vegan train.

Ah, yeah, I was going to ask you if you're still on the plane. Yeah, I am. I am. And I'm slightly, I'm so annoying because I try not to be like prescriptive. And then I'm like, are you sure you want to eat that? Like the nagging girlfriend. It's horrible. But yeah. What was it?

I forget. I don't know what we were talking about. Oh, yeah. The aesthetic of the book. Oh, the aesthetic of the book. Yeah, I really wanted it to be representative of my experience of running through New York City

that I find so visually engaging. And we've talked about that before. You have such a visual conversation with the world all the time, but especially when you're running through New York. And I really do think that the photography and the design reflects that. And the design team at Harper

was so patient with me being like, I like that color. I don't like that color. I don't like it. It's just like fickle as hell. But, you know, it's my baby. And for the book launch, I feel like you should like go visit a bunch of cities. But instead of doing like a reading or a signing, you just go, you just do runs. Oh, my God.

It's so funny you say that because we're 100% we're going to do it in L.A. sure and maybe london if i'm there but um that is what we're gonna do oh so i was gonna never mind what i was thinking london olympics but i was oh no that happened i was already there and i'm actually hoping to do a little drop by rio for the olympics but we'll see um you know just cover it right as me you know but the the book yeah so June 21st the book comes out and I'm gonna be doing runs in New York and LA and they will be with heavy beats we're gonna have like people on bikes with beats to follow us we're gonna do a lot of like what I what I call with Adidas, like energy moments. Like we're just going to have like some surprises along the way. That's cool.

Yeah. Is Adidas going to help with that? Because that could be. Well, I will definitely be partnering with them in some capacity. That's still we're still talking about that. But yeah, I'm with I'm on the Adidas team for sure. Like they they're my family. They have shown me a lot of love.

All right. Well, you definitely have to let me know about the L.A. one. Oh,, they're my family. They have shown me a lot of love. All right. Well, you definitely have to let me know about the LA one. Oh, hell yeah. Of course. Of course I will. Yeah.

It'll be in June. Cool. I think we did it. Oh, we did it again. Third time's a charm. Third time. Thanks for listening to me ramble.

If I lived here, you lived in LA. It would be more like, I want, I want to do one with Mishka. Yeah. And with JJ, we could do that.

We could do that. That would be like a whole. I did one with JJ the other day. Okay, cool. We could have done a combined one, though. We could have just recorded our dinner. Oh, my God. That was so good. Peace food.

It was so good. I mean, I think speaking, we're always talking about energy. And you do attract such special people. And anyone I've met through you has instantly become like my new favorite person and like Mishka has become like one of my really close friends

and I think it's so cool that I think the world would combust if all of us just got on a pod together. Well, what I keep wanting to do and we talked about this,

I just didn't get it together to do a live podcast but I would like to do a New York City live podcast with you jj and mishka together oh my god can you plan it ahead of time and like i'm so into it and get like a cool venue and like make a night of it you know i think it would be great i'm i'm down so like but now mishka it's he's hard to pin down he's all over the place so well yeah he's a he's a busy

b2 but we'll make it happen. And I think if I'm going to make a call out, because I always tell people, like, put it out there so you stay accountable. So if you guys are listening to this, keep us accountable so we get a date on the calendar and make it happen. Yeah, I think I have to be. I have some stuff going on in New York, I think, in July. Oh, that's perfect.

I'll definitely be back this summer. I'm not sure. Let's make it happen in July. I'll be around. I'll be around until Burning Man, so I get to run around the desert naked again. When is that again? It's always the week before Labor Day,

but I just got my tickets. Like yesterday, I got my tickets. I still have that devil on my shoulder. He needs to dance. All right. At Robin NYC, the book is Shut Up up and run i'm sure it's everywhere uh i don't know when i'm putting this out but i'll put i want to put it out right when you tell me when the time is because i want to help you get the word out all right cool but check it out you

know i all i haven't seen a hard copy yet because it doesn't exist at the date of this conversation but i have looked at the proofs and it's quite something. You should be super proud. It's really exciting. And this is your time, Robin. Aw, thanks for listening, y'all. Spread those wings and ovaries up. I love that that's what we took away from this. And I like, yes, salute.

Salute to all the hustlers. Cool, we did it. Peace, y'all. Thank you so much, Rich. Thanks. It's all the hustlers. Cool. We did it. Peace, y'all. Thank you so much, Rich. Plants. She's so awesome, right? I mean, what else is there to say? There's nothing left to say.

We said it all. I just love that. And I love her. Definitely pre-order Shut Up and Run. It really is a very cool, completely, totally unique book. I've never seen anything like it. And it really does stand out in this world of kind of like bland training manuals and running books.

I think it's a must have if you're into running, if you're into inspiration and you're looking for a great accessible kind of how- to book that is welcoming rather than intimidating. Don't forget to check out the show notes at richroll.com on the episode page. Lots of links to take your infotainment, your education, your edgertainment, your info education to the next level. If you haven't already, subscribe to my YouTube channel, youtube.com forward slash richroll. And also go to richroll.com. I've got signed copies of Finding Ultra. Have you guys read Finding Ultra?

I don't talk about my memoir that much. It's been out for a couple of years. But yeah, why not, right? There's new people listening to this. Check out my book, Finding Ultra. I'm really proud of it. Also, if you're looking for a cookbook or a lifestyle guide to plant power away, we got that too. We'll sign both of those if you buy them through my site.

We also have cool Plant Power t-shirts and tech tees and other sweet swag and merch and all kinds of fun stuff. I want to thank everybody who has helped put this show on today. Jason Camiolo for audio engineering and production and editing. Sean Patterson for graphics.

Chris Swan for production assistance and compiling the show notes and theme music by Annalema. Thanks for everything, you guys for production assistance and compiling the show notes, and Theme Music by Anilema. Thanks for everything, you guys. I love you. Thanks for taking this ride, this crazy journey with me. It means everything to me to have you guys on board. I appreciate all the support and the love and the comments and the emails, etc. Keep rocking, and I will keep doing my best to deliver to you guys amazing content. Peace. Plants. See you next week. Thank you.