The Rich Roll Podcast - ROLL ON: Alt Media, Streaming Rec’s, AMA, & The Truth About Transformation

Episode Date: October 3, 2024

Adam and I are back on the mics for another rollicking “Roll On”—ready to dissect the kaleidoscope of experiences that have colored our recent existence! We free dive into Adam’s aquatic adventures with Zuma, the Shohei Ohtani mania, my transformative Olympic journey in Paris, my unexpected connections to Netflix’s “Monsters,” streaming gems that caught our eye, and the compelling story of “Maya and the Wave.” Plus, we wade into media controversies, ponder the enigma of personal change, and more. Time to catch up, folks! Tune in for this unvarnished exploration of life’s vicissitudes. Show notes + MORE Watch on YouTube Newsletter Sign-Up Today’s Sponsors:  Seed: Use code RICHROLL25 for 25% OFF your first order 👉seed.com/RichRoll Whoop: Get a FREE one month trial 👉join.whoop.com/roll On: High-performance shoes & apparel crafted for comfort and style 👉on.com/richroll Roka: Unlock 20% OFF your order with code RICHROLL  👉ROKA.com/RICHROLL Go Brewing: use the code Rich Roll for 15% OFF  👉gobrewing.com Squarespace: Use the offer code RichRoll to save 10% off your first purchase  👉Squarespace.com/RichRoll Check out all of the amazing discounts from our Sponsors 👉 richroll.com/sponsors Find out more about Voicing Change Media at voicingchange.media and follow us @voicingchange

All right, everybody, we're back. It's another Roll On On Tap today, but first. If you're like me, you pay close attention to what you put in your body, especially probiotics, which are essential to gut health, which is crucial to health generally. But because there's so much hype out there, it's really important to choose your probiotic wisely, one that is scientifically validated, which is why the one I use and have used for years is the DS01 Daily Symbiotic by Seed.

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where Adam Skolnik and I basically just get loose and casual. We catch up with each other. We share sundry items from news and culture that have captured our fancy, our attention. And in the second half, we answer audience questions. And listen, Adam, it's been a minute, but you know what? I think less is more. Yeah, I hear you loud and clear.

I'm not saying less Skolnick. I just think wetting the appetite by taking extended breaks in between these types of shows is something to give the audience something to look forward to. I agree. Meanwhile, like the darkness brews inside me and then I come, I have an outlet to deliver it.

You gotta let it build up a little bit, right? It's brimming, it's brimming. Okay, good, I can't wait to see what comes out. We spoke earlier today and I thought, you know what? Let's just riff this one. We don't really need an outline. It's been a while, we'll just shoot the shit, right? And then of course I then proceeded to build out

like a gigantic outline. So hopefully this won't be a four hour podcast, but we'll see. Part one and part two roll on. How are you doing? You know, I was thinking, I scalded my mouth on the way over here. Hydro Flask makes a really great product.

And it's so good that a cup of tea I made an hour and a half ago is still too hot to drink. So I have it here, I'm gonna have it open. My hope is after this three hour podcast, I can have a sip of green tea without going to call in the doctor. We'll test it. We'll take sips at 30 minute increments

and see how palatable it is. Why is this a very bougie problem? Why is tea so much hotter than coffee? Good question. It's so hot. I don't have the answer to that. It's so hot. Coffee can get pretty hot. Life's good, man. We're have the answer to that. It's so hot. Coffee can get pretty hot.

Life's good, man. We're good. We're good. What have I been doing? I taught, we're teaching Zuma swimming is starting to get, he's not water safe yet, but we're getting so much better. And I was in the, I taught him a little bit yesterday and he's a, has a swim teacher.

And so I'm kind of the coach in between lessons. And we found a pool on Swimply. We don't own the pool, of course. Is that a website? I don't know what that is. You ever heard of Swimply? No. It's like the Airbnb for backyard pools.

For backyard pools? Right. People open up their backyard pools to strangers? Right. I mean, you can like literally rent somebody's pool in their backyard. But we rent this guy's pool for 50 bucks an hour, basically. And he has it so booked out like

he he deals with he keeps it at 90 degrees because it's good for little kids you know like kids under five apparently if it's 88 90 degrees in that window or above 85 they listen better they they're more comfortable so they take on the lesson better and so he has it in that sweet spot and he sells it to these swim schools and they bring their instructor. So it's basically, the guy's, he's a lawyer. He's like a sole proprietor lawyer. He guarantee he's paying his mortgage with his bill. Right.

Guarantee. Who knew? I had no idea. I'd never heard of that before. Yeah, Swimply. So it can just be this insane side hustle. Oh dude, totally. This guy's killing it.

Is it nationwide? Yeah, I'm sure it is. I mean, I've only tried it here, but I bet you it is. It's one of those, it's like Airbnb. Yeah, except that you're home while this is, like if you're running out your pool, you're kind of in your house.

It's not like you vacate, right? Like you're there. We've been to three pools now. How do they deal with the safety considerations and the lack of lifeguards and all that kind of stuff? I'm sure there's some waiver. Yeah, there must be some sort of some lawyer. They figured out a waiver and they figured out

probably Swimply is carrying some insurance or something, but the owners have been there for the two, I think the owners are there for the renter. The third place we went is where Sebastian, the swim teacher, he's a lifeguard on the beach in Santa Monica. And he's also a student at Cal State LA. And he's got his own business. The guy is amazing.

I love this kid. He's 22 years old. And he rents the pool for the Friday sessions. And so I think when he goes there, he deals with the owners. But typically, yeah, we deal with the owner of the house. And And so I think when he goes there, he deals with the owners, but typically, yeah, we deal with the owner of the house and we say hi and we say bye and that's it. You come in and come out and there's like pool toys usually.

Wow. Yeah. That's cool. It is cool. And Zoom is like getting increasingly water safe and he's very cautious. He's not one of those like hard chargers, you know, those young boys that just will run through a wall. It's not him. And so it's cool to see him kind of ratcheting that up

and his confidence and floating on his back and by himself, it's cool. Yeah. Well, you're here today in full Dodgers regalia. So I feel part of what's been pent up inside of you is talking about baseball, which is the one sport I know nothing about. Well, you've heard of Shohei.

I pay zero attention to. You've heard of Shohei Otani. Yeah, kind of. Just kind of? Yeah. You have no idea why he's a thing? I know he's a thing, but beyond that, I know nothing. But you don't know why?

This is my blind spot. I told you like professional mainstream sports are a huge blind spot. Right, right. So I'm gonna give you just a two minute primer. Let's keep it short. We'll keep it very short. Let's try to put the clock on for 60 seconds.

You heard of Babe Ruth? Yes. He was famous because he was a great pitcher and he was also a great hitter. And then he gave up pitching just to hit. Otani's the first guy since Babe Ruth to be as good a pitcher and as good a hitter. So literally he was predicted,

this guy could be the Japanese Babe Ruth. And when people say that, it's kind of like saying at 17 years old, LeBron or 15 years old, LeBron's gonna be the greatest basketball player in the world and then achieving it. It's like so rare that actually happens. He's actually arguably a better pitcher

and just as good a hitter as Babe Ruth. He's maybe the best baseball player of all time. And this year he isn't pitching because he hurt his elbow. He'll pitch next year. And he's just been hitting and he just hit his 50th homer and he's got 50 stolen bases.

So that's never been done before. Like Barry Bonds did 40 homers and 40 stolen bases one year. He did 50 and 50 and he achieved both on a game where he went six for six, three homers, two doubles, two stolen bases and put the Dodgers in the playoffs,

10 RBIs. Wow. So he's had this legendary thing. Doesn't he also have something interesting about his salary? I remember reading something about- $700 million contract, but he only is taking like, I forget. Yeah, he's deferring it or something.

He's deferring like 70% or 80%, maybe 90% even. Yeah. He also had a little bit of a gambling scandal early on in the season. He's had a little bit of a gambling scandal early on in the season. He's had a very, but it wasn't him. He got ripped off by his translator or that's the story, right? The cops have confirmed it.

They've arrested the translator. So the translator embezzled money from him, like $17 million. He didn't know it. Wow. And so, but anyway, he's just this amazing baseball player. He's a Dodger. He put the Dodgers in the playoffs again. And this is his first time he's just this amazing baseball player. He's a Dodger.

He put the Dodgers in the playoffs again. And this is his first time gonna be in the post-season. And he's just beloved, you know? There's nothing that- You go into a bunch of games. He's, yeah, he's hit. Let's, can I, yeah. All right, we're well over 60 seconds at this point.

Fine. There's lots of other podcasts out there who would love to go deep into this, but we got a lot of stuff to cover. Let's move on, let's move on. But you have been running again, yeah. I have been, I've been, finally got back to running

and started on like one of those gravity treadmills, anti-gravity treadmills, and then like walk and run on a treadmill and walk and run on the street. And now I just did 10K, which is the longest I've run. So I've been back and I'm injury free. And so that's in that part. It's like this, I still am in physical therapy

because I have other things, but thanks to the people at, to Melody at Elite OrthoSport, she's got me back running. It's unbelievable. I thought maybe I could never run again. Good. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, it's cool.

So it's fun. So life's good. No complaints maybe I could never run again. Good, cool. Yeah, it's cool. So it's fun. So life's good. Good. No complaints. I mean, I've got complaints, but this is not the setting for that. Is it? Maybe it is. Maybe, we'll get to it. We'll get to it.

How about you, man? You were in Paris. I was, it's been a minute since I was there, but I thought I would dress the part today. I'm wearing my jumpsuit and owed to Parisian factory workers and my striped shirt and my red beanie. So it's a little Steve Zissou meets Parisian

memories of Paris, right? Yeah. No, it was great. We were there for the entire month. We had all the kids and even my daughter, Mathis's boyfriend. So there were seven of us in a Parisian flat for the month. And it's pretty great to go to a city like that.

Not strictly as a tourist, like, oh, cause we were there for so long. It's like, all right, well, we kind of live here. Like where's the grocery store? How do you get around? Where's the nearest subway station? And to just not be rushing around cause you gotta see X, Y, and Z

to check it off some kind of list. And it was fantastic. Paris was phenomenal. It was extremely livable because a lot of Parisians left town. All those town people were gone. And the typical influx of August tourists went elsewhere. Of course there were people there for the Olympics

and there was a lot of energy of course around that, but it was way less crowded than I thought it would be, which made it extremely pleasant, except for like an extreme heat wave that kind of visited us a couple of times throughout because air conditioning isn't really a thing. No, right. The dryers don't really work that well either.

I don't understand that. Like, we have this technology, Adam. Right, fluff and fold, baby. Not a priority over there. But other than that, like, yeah, it was great. They did a great job with the Olympics. It's interesting when you're there because you're not sitting at home

watching it on television. And I was pretty busy. So you don't exactly have your finger on the pulse of what's happening hour to hour like you would if you were kind of tuned in to NBC at home. But the energy was electric. The city did a great job managing everything. I mean, the subways are fantastic.

They come, you never have to wait for a train. They're clean. You can get around everywhere really easily. And the organization around the venues was fantastic too. Like the experience was top-notch all across the board. And it was just fun to be there. I'd never been to an Olympics before. And then to be so engaged with the brands

that I was working with and to attend some of the events. So I did a bunch of stuff for On. I helped them tell the story of Light Spray, the new shoe that they introduced that is that robotic kind of 3D printed microfiber upper. Yeah. That's reinventing kind of shoe technology printed microfiber upper. Yeah. That's reinventing kind of shoe technology.

And that was really exciting. They had like their house on labs, they were calling it on labs Paris was literally less than a five minute walk from our apartment. Amazing. So I did some panels and interviewed some athletes and just created some content with them around that,

which was super fun. Got to go to track and field one night with the On team and was like in a box, like a suite, one of the hospitality suites with Olivier, the founder of On and a bunch of On staffers and executives and designers, et cetera. And that was the night that Cole Hawker won the 1500 meters. Yes.

And the on athlete, Yurid Nagus got bronze in that event. So that was really fun to watch that. Have you ever been to like a legit track and field meet? 1984 Olympics. Oh, wow. That's how old I am. How old were you? Cause I was 16, I think. I was younger.

Yeah. But you know. But you remember it. Oh yeah. What's why I'd never been to a big track and field meet. Carl Lewis, man. I'll never forget Carl Lewis. Yeah, that stands out.

It's sort of like the songs that you fall in love with when you're a teenager. Like you just, they're always. And so I remember the LA Olympics in that way because that was the first Olympics where I was old enough to really tune into it. And it's like cemented in my memory. Same, same, same.

Yeah, exactly. But what's so fun about a big track and field meet is it kind of starts off with, it starts off slowly. Like you're watching one event and it's heats and then, oh, here's a final. And like, that's exciting. And then suddenly they start layering in other events

that are happening simultaneously. Like the women's hammer throw is happening. And then way over there, the long jump is happening. And then they all start to build at the same time. And you get to this point where you're like, I don't know what I'm supposed to be looking at. Right. Because it's all over the place.

It's like a city. And you're looking up at these screens and you're like, what's happening right now that needs my undivided attention? It's like a teeming city below, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're seeing something over here and then, yeah, yeah. Like I'm watching this, but suddenly I hear all of these,

I hear screams and cheers and I'm like, wait, what just happened? Right, it's like social media, but in real time, right in front of your eyes. You don't know where to put your attention. You just scroll through as you go. It was fun. So yeah, ON was great.

I love working with ON and I think the level at which they're executing on product and design and community building is really something special. So I'm very proud and honored to be associated with them and to be working with them. I'm gonna be going to New York soon to do some stuff with them

around the New York City Marathon. And you were hosting panels at their house mainly, right? And doing content? Yeah, a couple of panels, a couple conversations, just a bunch of different kinds of things. And then I got to work with Speedo, which was really fun. Right. And that is a cool story in and of itself

because it was birthed out of me seeing their little video that they shared on Instagram and on YouTube, like this new campaign, the Go Full Speedo campaign. Did you see that original commercial? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, this is great. Like this is so fun, it's so cheeky.

It's definitely a representation of a new direction for this brand trying to make like this idea of wearing Speedos, like a sort of every man kind of thing as opposed to, you opposed to elite competitor thing. And I just found it really refreshing that I DMed the account, whoever runs that social media account. And I was like, this is fantastic.

I don't know what you guys are doing, but I'd love to work with you on this and learn more about this new story that you're trying to tell. And that kind of led to my first opportunity to do something official with them, which is what I did in Paris. And I got to interview a bunch of the swimmers

for the Speedo channels, some of them of which they've already released and some of which I'm sure they'll drip out for however long. But that was really great to meet a bunch of the medalists, international and national athletes. They had a hospitality house also in the Marais, meet a bunch of the medalists, international and national athletes. They had a hospitality house also in the Marais, which is sort of the neighborhood where we were staying.

And that was really fun to kind of pop in. And I observed some panels there and got to meet the whole Speedo team and was also able to go to see finals on, swimming finals on three nights, which was super fantastic. Like that was just insane. I was there the night Leon Marchand doubled in the 200 fly and the 200 breast,

like 22 minutes apart from each other. And the French crowd for Marchand was just unreal. Like it was so deafeningly loud in there. And so that was really special. It came across watching it. I mean, I thought of you remember the, I think there was his first one and I texted you, see if loud in there. And so that was really special. It came across watching it. I mean, I thought of you, remember the, I think there was his first one and I texted you, see if you were there and then you said,

you're gonna be there the next night or something like that. And I was like, man, the crowd seems so, I mean, let you use the word electric. It was electric in those arenas. For sure, yeah, for sure. Yeah, it was unbelievable. But it's also this thing, I mean, swimming is a sport I know the best,

but I'm so old now, like I only have like a sort of very tertiary understanding of all of these different athletes, backgrounds, et cetera, because I don't pay super close attention like I used to. And you realize how valuable the commentary is and how much you kind of miss it when you're there. Oh, really? Because there's no commentary.

You're just watching it, especially a track too. Like I'm like, wait, I was with people who could explain all of this to me, but you really learn how crucial and critical like great commentary is to helping you kind of emotionally connect and understand what's going on. And you don't get that when you're there live. I mean, actually on one of the nights at swimming,

I pulled up the Peacock app and I was kind of watching it, so I could get a little rowdy. You need rowdy in your life when you're watching swimming. So I could hear what rowdy had to say and Phelps was there, so that was really fun. And I actually did get to do a podcast with Rowdy Gaines, which was really fun while I was there. Right, that was great.

I love Rowdy, man. Obviously the greatest swim commentator. I don't think there's ever been anybody like him with that kind of enthusiasm and knowledge and just infectious. He makes you wanna watch anything he's announcing. Cause he's so genuinely and earnestly excited about what's happening.

But also knows like he's on it. Well, speaking of 84, I mean, that was, you remember Rowdy from 84. Yeah, basically this was like, I think his ninth Olympiad and he's gonna do LA and then he's gonna retire. That's it. But just to know that the times, like he gives you great context on how,

not only how well they're swimming comparatively to themselves, but how fast that is in kind of the scope of time. And so understanding how swimming changes. Swimming is I think different than a lot of sports in that the innovation is almost continuous. Like there was that one period where people were wearing this fast suits

and then that became, they said, now that's a little bit too techie. Yeah, it got a little crazy. All the world records were broken. It just rewrote the record books. And there was a sense at that time that when they go back to regular non-tech suits that none of those world records were going to be broken.

And of course they all were broken. But this Olympiad, I don't know. I mean, it wasn't that there were no world records. I don't know off I mean, it wasn't that there were no world records, I don't know, but it was a conspicuously slow meet. Was it, okay. And a lot of that discourse was around the depth of the pool, which was not to standard.

Like I think it was two, it was like two meters deep. No, it wasn't deep enough. It was too shallow. They had built it inside, I think a rugby stadium. Right. Which is curious, cause like if you're gonna do it and it's the Olympics, like make it deep enough.

And apparently that, you know, cause when it's shallow, then, you know, you get the currents bounce off the bottom. Got it. And things like that. So they're attributing the slower times to that. I mean, who knows if that's true or not, but yeah. Overall, like in the context of past Olympics where you're just used to world records

being broken all the time, that wasn't the case. But nonetheless, your point remains, which is that, yes, swimming is constantly innovating and world records continue to get broken like with regularity. Right, and this meet was like, it was all about being underwater longer. That's what Rowdy kept pointing out,

is like that swimmers are now underwater a bit longer than they ever were before. Yeah, well, I've shared this before, I think most recently in my podcast with Ross Edgley, but, you know, I came up in the late 80s when that was the very beginning of swimmers beginning to experiment with the underwater dolphin kick.

And at that time, there was no rule or regulation about how long you could stay underwater. And so in the 1988, Seoul Olympics in the 100 meter backstroke, like these guys were staying under like almost the entire 100 meters. Like they would, they'd swim, they'd pop up for the turn at the 50

and then they would pop up off that wall, like 20, 25 meters in and swim the rest of it. And it got so crazy that they had to put the 15 meter roll up, which means you have to, once you kick, when you come off the wall, you have to break the surface of the water at 15 meters. But yes, like now it's all about explosiveness off the walls and the power that you can generate

underwater, because you can swim so much more efficiently and quickly underwater. And the swimmers who are really good at that and can do it in the later stages of the race where they're extremely fatigued, those are the ones that are, you know, seeing the kind of success. And nobody does that better than Marchand. Like his walls are unbelievable. And you were there, I mean, that's like a most iconic moment in French Olympic history that I can think of. I mean, it was cool. Yeah. And he's coached by Bowman, right?

Now, yeah, he was at Arizona State and now Bowman is now the new head coach at University of Texas. Right. So this'll be his first year at Marchand. I think Marchand is still training in France right now, but at some point, I think at the end of the year or in January, he's gonna move to Austin. You know, the Olympics, what they show you though,

is that all these athletes in all these countries, they're all in the NCAA system. You know, it really they show you though, is that all these athletes in all these countries, they're all in the NCAA system. You know, it really does show you the strength of the collegiate sports program that we have here. No other country has anything even similar to this. Right, you mean the fact that all these foreign athletes come to the States to go to college and compete in the NCAA.

But it's not just to compete, it's like that is the springboard to the Olympics. Yeah, well, some of them go pro and they'll train with Bowman, but they're not. And maybe they're enrolled at the University of Texas, maybe they're not, but because they're professional, they can't compete in the NCAA. Yeah, so it's interesting, the American collegiate,

not to be like waving the flag here, but yeah. Two final thoughts on Paris before we move on. One is it definitely reinvigorated the world's enthusiasm around the Olympics. Yes. Because clearly our kind of appetite for it was on the wane. And part of that's Tokyo and COVID and all of that.

But I think there was this sense like, do we care about the Olympics anymore? You know, in our kind of fractured attention economy and decaying monoculture, like, you know, we grew up at a time where like the whole world stopped when you watched the Olympics, right? Like this was like all anybody thought or talked about. I mean, do you remember like the miracle on ice?

Were you too young for this? No, I remember 1980. That was the only, like it was, you know, it's hard to communicate to a younger person, like just how captured we all were by moments like that. That was the first signature Olympic moment in my life for sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And those moments are hard to come by these days and fewer and further in between. But I feel like this Olympics kind of brought that back. Like I feel like the world really did. And you don't know that when you're in Paris, like I didn't, you know, cause you're there, you don't know. But when I came back, it just seemed like there was such an outpouring of love

and enthusiasm for the games. And also on top of that, another kind of insight that I had, and I'm curious what you think about this. It also seemed like, and I think this is a product of how far we have come in our discussion around mental health. Yeah. That we were celebrating

and the athletes were celebrating silvers and bronze accomplishments just as much as golds. Like you would, I wasn't used to seeing so many athletes who got a silver or a bronze, just ecstatic. Oh, okay. And that felt different and new. I don't know if that's true or just through the lens of my own memory. I think, I think it depends on the athlete's expectation and also the expectations of the people around the athlete. I think there would have been some, like the US basketball team would not have been thrilled to get a bronze, right? But like, and Simone Biles was thrilled to get anything.

She was, you know, she's at the point where she's won so much that she's happy to take us. Like you saw her lose to the Brazilian and she was really happy to take whatever medal and she didn't care about getting cheated out of another medal, whatever, that didn't bother her. But I think there are some athletes that like the guy that came in third, and she didn't care about getting cheated out of another medal, whatever, that didn't bother her. But I think there are some athletes that like the guy

that came in third or no, we would call Hawker won the whole thing. That was amazing. But there was another distance, mid distance runner. Was it the 1500? Was it the same? I forget there was one race where he came in third, like he got bronze and he was so happy.

He was overcome with emotion. Yard and Goose is he's the on athlete. Like, yeah, I got to meet him. Yeah, I thought that was great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought that was great. That was amazing. The second observation and then we'll move on

or reflection has to do with podcasting at the Olympics. Like I went in, you know, sort of full of vim and vigor that I was gonna just be banging out podcasts like crazy. And that ended up proving difficult to impossible. Despite the fact that I had a studio at my behest, like the Red Bull House and Red Bull Media. So imagine like all of these brands have these hospitality houses, right?

Nike like took over the Pompidou, like they had an insane one. On had their lab, Speedo had like a cafe and Red Bull had this six story house basically that they converted into this sort of hospitality suite, each floor offering something different. And so there were viewing rooms and there were experiences and there was food like a cafeteria and coffee bars.

And they had certain floors that were reserved only for the athletes. They had like a nap room and they had a recovery room for PTs and like all kinds of like rehab type stuff. And they had a floor for the media, like a whole room where all the press could sit and write their articles and big screens so they could watch what was going on.

And on that media floor, they had a podcast studio. And Max Heidbauer from Red Bull, who's a friend and a colleague was like, "'Hey, if you wanna do podcasts, "'like you can just come and do it here.'" I was like, really? And it was fully kitted. It had all the cameras and an engineer and a soundboard and the whole thing. And you could just go in and do it here. I was like, really? And it was fully kitted. It had all the cameras and an engineer

and a soundboard and the whole thing. And you could just go in and do your thing and get your file and be done with it. And it turned out that the only people, I think there's exceptions, but predominantly the only people that were using this podcast studio were me and Michael Gervais.

So I saw Michael Gervais like almost every day I would go over to the studio, right? Because he was doing a daily show. Right. So he was recording every single day while also showing up on the coaching staff for the Canadian women's sandball tournament. I remember that, right, yes.

Who ended up meddling. And that's a whole crazy story in and of itself that I'm sure Michael played a large part in, right? Because that's an underdog story and he's the X factor, right? He's the guy. And I love that guy to death. Shout out, Michael. So I thought, well, this is great. I'm going to be just getting people in here all the time. We're going to just create unreal content. And what I overlooked and should have known if I thought about it for two minutes is that A, the athletes aren't gonna do a podcast

until they're done competing, right? Cause they're focusing on competition obviously. And the athlete village is pretty far away from like central Paris. Like, I don't know, 45 minutes or something like that. It's like, they're not leaving the village. And then the bedrooms were so nice that they wouldn't wanna leave.

Right, of course. I mean, who would wanna leave the cardboard bed, right? And then if they, okay, so then if they compete and they don't do well, like they're not gonna wanna go talk about, and if they do do well, they're suddenly on this press junket with publicists and agents,

and they're being kind of shepherded around, across a multitude of media opportunities that are all these like kind of small hits. And it became very difficult to pin people down or carve out time. And then the interesting people who are in Paris who aren't competing that you would think like, oh, well that would make for a cool person

to have on the podcast. They're there kind of like me because they have all these other obligations. And so scheduling and all of that just became really difficult. And so I did a couple of podcasts. I did two swimming focused ones and one with Rowdy Gaines. And I was like, yeah, everything else is going to have to wait till later.

Right, yeah. Where do you get them in? Well, I mean, these kind of like in-depth stuff you do, sometimes like an athlete in the heat of the moment doesn't really understand the context of everything, can't really put in, it's almost later through hindsight, through reflection that they can have a long form conversation about it anyway.

So in the way that you like to do it. You don't want them to come in distracted because they got to rush off somewhere else and it just happened yesterday. And like they haven't even allowed themselves, like they haven't even processed what's happened. Exactly, exactly. Well, that's cool, man.

I was so stoked to, I was secretly hoping, I'm like, I hope he wants to unpack this experience because I knew it would be like, just to talk to you about how it was there. Cause it's like, you know, you still hold the Olympics in such a high regard. Yeah, it was great. And on top of that,

to just have the opportunity to be there with my entire family and my kids are older, right? So when is that gonna happen again where all of their schedules align so that they all would be able to and would want to go do something like that. So the family kind of aspect of it was really great too. So it was like a 10 of 10.

And you were running? Little bit, yeah. You were? Yeah, I mean, I was the lower back, not so hot. Right. We don't need to get into all of that today. That's a whole other podcast, but I did my best and I tried to kind of share little snippets

of observations from those daily runs, which was fun. That's cool. Yeah, right on. All right, well, let's take a quick break and we've got a lot more coming your way. So stick around. I own a bunch of spectacles, and I made the grave error the other day of donning a normal non-roka pair

on my indoor trainer when I was riding my bike indoors, and I've got to tell you, it was a disaster. Every three to five seconds, I had to take my hands off the handlebars and push my glasses back up my nose until I got so frustrated, I just tossed them aside. This is the dilemma of every active

but optically impaired person I know. And as someone who has relied upon eyewear every single day since I was five years old, it is also the source of endless aggravation. Thankfully, now eradicated thanks to Broca, the stylish performance eyewear company founded by two former Stanford swimming teammates of mine who have gifted everyone like me and quite frankly, the world with their fashionable line of super lightweight prescription glasses and sunglasses with patented no-slip nose and temple pads that are just impervious to sweat and no matter what you do, remain locked on your mug no matter how

intense your workout. Without the dork factor, these things go everywhere with me, from the trail to the dinner party. Put them on, feel the difference, and wear without limits. Unlock 20% off your order with the code RICHROLL at ROKA.com. That's R-O-K-A dot com. Today's episode is sponsored by Whoop. I have been wearing a Whoop for at least five years, I think longer, definitely before they were even a partner of this show. And I got to tell you, like, truly, it has become this indispensable thing that provides me with so many insights that just keep me accountable, keep me motivated. And I love all the data and WHOOP tracks tons of it. It tracks your heart rate, your sleep quality,

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Drinking negatively affects your overall recovery by about 12% full stop. It raises your resting heart rate by 7%. It decreases sleep quality. I think we all know this. And each drink lowers your recovery by an additional 4%. 4% for every drink. That is truly some sobering data, pun intended. Anyway, this is all a long way of saying that I'm proud to support Whoop's Sober October initiative. They're offering

all of you guys a free one-month trial to celebrate this and to experience the benefits for yourself. So go to join.whoop.com slash roll to start your free trial. That's join.whoop.com slash roll. Although we haven't done a roll on in a while, this is not the first that I've seen you recently because you were here, what was that? Like 10 days ago? Yeah, something like that. Something like that.

You dropped in for a very special occasion. I did. Because our friend Alex Honnold was appearing yet again on the podcast and you wanted to say hi, right? Most frequent guest after me. No, after Julie. I think Julie's been on a lot.

Yeah, I think it was maybe his fourth time on or whatever, which was super fun to have him on. We do something a little bit different. I won't spoil it because that hasn't gone up yet, but it was a great time. He was in LA to promote this new documentary that is premiering on Nat Geo. And I'll just like leave it there

cause you'll hear more about it in the podcast. And he had done Daniel Tosh's podcast earlier that day, who lives in Malibu and has a very funny podcast where he like interviews his wife's gynecologist. And he has a very funny podcast where he like, you know, interviews his wife's gynecologist and he has a very cheeky kind of like approach to, you know, this format of engaging interesting people. And he'd come right from there to here. And we had a great time doing the podcast.

I think it's our most fun. I think we got the real Alex in this podcast. And again, not gonna spoil anything, but let's just say he has a hidden superpower and that superpower is his talent around deadpan comedy. Yes, it's very funny. It's very funny. And his whole, like the fact that he is,

I mean, do we even, did you get, you get into it in the podcast? I don't wanna spoil everything, but it came out when you took him to eat after the podcast. Right, so here's where, yeah, here's where, here's where it gets interesting and what we wanted to talk about. So he had some time to kill before his flight.

So I'm like, hey, let's go, let's go grab something to eat. So you, me and Davey took him to Erewhon. So I was like, let's give them an LA experience, right? And not just any Erewhon, the Calabasas Erewhon. Right. Which is the most Erewhon of all Erewhons. Is it? Yeah.

Oh, yes. As somebody who is a purveyor of all LA-based Erewhons. I've been to, have I been to four Erewhons? I've been to all, are there only four? I've been to four. I don't even know. They're only in LA, ironically. For people that don't know,

Erwann is a very Tony high-end grocery store that has now become like a luxury brand, much like Louis Vuitton or something like that, except with food. And it's almost a destination for people who come to LA to like go visit Erwann and people create all kinds of social media content around their experiences there.

It's incredibly expensive, it's healthy food. And these stores are like boutiques in the way that they arrange all of these food products. So it's like a whole experience because Calabasas lacks a sort of main street or town center. Erwan kind of slides in to serve that purpose. So if you want to see people, if you want to like have a sense that you live in a town where, you know, people interact, you got to go to Erwan, right? So I was like, we take Alex to Erwan. Which is hilarious because saying it's the center of Calabasas is like the soul of Calabasas

because Erewhon is an anagram for nowhere. Yeah. So infer from that as you will, right? And it's, listen, it's in like a tiny little strip mall that is just in a basically like a business park area of town. It's not like, you know, there's anything else going on. No. Anyway,

we pull up to Erewhon, we get out of our cars and immediately I run into my friend, Andrew. I asked him how he's doing. Andrew's a very good old friend. And I know that his daughter has just started at a new school, happens to be kind of a fancy private school in the region. And it was a big deal for him.

And I was like, how's it going? And he starts to tell this story about how she had just started, but they had already gone on some exotic surfing trip or something. They're not in school. They went on a surf trip. And just to kind of register,

like the expression on Alex's face, he's like, wow, we're really in LA right now, aren't we? We're in a school, that was a school trip, he was like. And Alex had just, maybe you can share a little bit about how Alex had shared with us that he had just come from Tahoe where he had been kind of invited by, I don't know if they were investment bankers or-

Aspen, Aspen. Oh, it was in Aspen. Yeah, Aspen. And people like Alex get paid a lot of money to go to these kind of events with a bunch of financial people who pay him well, and he's there to like take them climbing or teach them a thing or two. Do you wanna tell us part of the story?

So I got to know, this is probably the fourth time I've seen him. I talked to him on the phone. I've hung out with him now a couple of different times. And this time I got to know him definitely better. And so we're sitting there. First of all, in Erewhon, he could not believe the prices. I wish I would, you know what?

I'm very hyper aware that people like Alex, I know I talked to the executive director of the Honnold Foundation, Emily, who told me that like, I said, how often is he getting asked for photographs? And it was like a hundred times a day. And then he confirmed it. And so I don't wanna be a guy who's spending time with him,

like putting him on my social media feed or photographing him, but it would have been gold to see his face when he's checking out the prices. Cause if anyone who's seen, um, free solo remembers him going shopping for a refrigerator. So like, that's nothing going to home Depot for a refrigerator is nothing compared to what you pay for like roasted salmon at the deli in Erewhon. It's like the expectation is through the roof. So he was like tripping on all that. It would have been really funny. And so then we're out, we're eating dinner and it kind of struck me that Alex gets paid to go to these high businessmen, CEO, financier type events, scold them for their environmental issues, right?

And then implore them to do good and do better. And then he takes them out on the rock and he treats them to an experience of how much they lack on the rock. And then they all love it. And then they pay him a big check and he leaves. And that's his basically, that's his world tour. That's the Alex world tour. He gets paid a lot of money to like show them up

and like shame them and they love it. And then they get to dine out on that story forever. Right. Right. So everybody wins. Yeah, he could be as salty as he wants and he's funny about it. So it's not like he's rude about it. Yeah, it's all like,

but with his kind of very direct, you know, deadpan approach. And it's all for good. A third of his income still goes to the foundation. So he had just come from one of those events and he was telling the story of like taking these guys out. And another luminary who was participating in that very same event was Laird Hamilton, right? And so Alex was taking people out on the mountain

and then Laird was taking them out on the water to paddleboard with them, right? And so he's told us the story and then we go into Erewhon and the first person we run into there is Gabby Reese, Laird's wife. I'm like, Gabby, you know Alex? Yeah. And that was funny, cause he's like, ah, and Gabby was like, oh, Lairdby, you know, Alex. Yeah. And that was funny.

Cause he's like, and Gabby was like, oh, Laird said, you know, it was great to see you. It was like, so he's like, like the LA experience is in Technicolor at this point. It was great for you because it's not like we're running into them. They find Rich and come up to him. So that's what it is.

And so I think after Gabby left, I'm like, Rich, are there any other fabulously good looking fit people that are gonna come say hello to you? It's not like that. And the story only continues because we get our food, we're sitting outside, we're eating, we're having a nice time. And then I happen to ask you about whether or not

David Goggins is gonna write a third book. And if you've had conversations with him about that and whether you're gonna be involved in that. Right, and so then I said, well, I know he is gonna write a third book, he's working on it, but I'm not sure yet. He hasn't asked me to do it yet. And so I don't typically go out and get my own work

and David and I have a good relationship. So I just figure when he needs me, he'll let me know. And so that's what I said. And then Alex gave me career advice. Yeah. Yes. And he said, dude, if that's what you wanna do, you gotta ask for it.

Yeah. I'm like- He's like, never presume that the other person knows your intention. It's always better to be direct. Direct, right. And you were like, never presume that the other person knows your intention. It's always better to be direct. Direct, right. And you were like, huh. Are you giving me career advice right now?

Like he just laid it out for you. And you're like, wow, I think Alex is my new self-help guru, my business advisor, you know? Which is great because I have a sense that, you know, he's keenly attuned to that. And I think he's probably very, very good in that context of like seeing things clearly

and just delivering the message that someone needs to hear. Totally. And also, you know what? He's a well-known person, a one-of-one himself. And it's like, he would know, like people who have a lot of demands, maybe they do need to be told directly that so it sticks in their brain.

So yeah, maybe he's speaking from experience. That was fun. It was a good time. It was fun. And I drove him and then we met up with his Uber to the airport in Santa Monica. I just pulled it. Oh, that's right.

You drove him back to town, right? We did and he timed it. Like we passed Topanga and he calls his Uber and we're on PCH and like we end up pulling into the lot right behind his Uber. And so he went from your Tesla to my Tesla to a Polestar. Which is another LA thing. Well, he's walking his talk.

Yeah, yes. You know what I mean? He timed it exactly to minimize all carbon emissions. He did, he did. Good for him, man. No, that was great. That was a good time. Have you heard, Adam, I don't know if you've heard.

What? That the Department of Justice issued an indictment in which it was revealed that certain podcasters on the right of the matter, specifically Dave Rubin and Tim Pool, were paid very large sums via a Russian operative funded media corporation called Tenant Media to make pro-Russia content

and in turn sow division here in the United States. Did you hear about this? No, but I'm glad that they've done, they've made a good contract for themselves. If you can't get on with Spotify, you try to find a Russian. Yeah, is that, that's what we should take from this? That's what we take from it.

They didn't get the deal at Spotify. And so they found a deal. There was something like $10 million doled out as far as I'm aware. And some of these sums were like $400,000 for four videos a week or something like that. The podcasters themselves, the content creators are claiming that they've been duped.

And my understanding is that the indictment is pursuing criminal charges against the Russians that are involved in this and not the content creators themselves. And I bring this up, first of all, to say, I don't wanna dwell on this, but first of all, to say, just so we're clear, I have not done this. I am not part of this.

Although, Adam. Why would anyone presume that you were part of it? Well, you might be surprised at how often I actually am offered money to host a guest on the show. And apparently this is a somewhat common practice in podcastlandia. That's something I've never done and never will do either for the record.

And I think that, well, first of all, there's a built-in irony here, which is that there are a lot of alternate media outlets out there that have kind of been built on this premise or this message that the mainstream media is corrupt and has been captured and is biased. And that these alternative outlets are the ones who are giving you the unvarnished truth.

Right? Right. Let's first disabuse ourselves of this notion because irrespective of the extent to which you believe the mainstream media has or has not been corrupted, you shouldn't presume that your favorite alternative media source hasn't been. Right, exactly. And so the point is to just choose your media diet wisely,

wherever you find yourself on the cultural or political spectrum. And maintain healthy skepticism of everything, basically. Not to be cynical, but to healthy skepticism. So don't necessarily buy it just because someone said it. And on some level, we're all more easily manipulated than we'd like to believe. And we all like to hear people tell us things to affirm what we already believe. And so I think it's always important to challenge those beliefs, to expose yourself to a variety

of different types of outlets and to exercise your powers of discernment, to work that like a muscle, just like you would in the gym. Agreed. Confirmation bias is real. I mean, I didn't know about this until we were talking today.

And then it reminded me of something, there was a Q&A with Gladwell in the New York Times. And it was the reporter was asking about the fact that we're in this moment of anti-expertise, this idea where people are gravitating from the expert journalists and the expert scientists and moving into this podcast, kind of murkier realm where people claim to know more. And Gladwell's reaction was interesting. And the interviewer invoked Huberman and Joe Rogan or just invoke Joe Rogan, not Huberman as an example of the anti expertise realm of things. And I thought Gladwell's response was just spot on.

And he was like, we're not in an anti-expertise area. It's the opposite. It's Rogan let someone come on and you do too. Come on, who's an expert in a specific area and has earned to be called that and gets to talk for two hours about everything that they know. And some of it is gonna be newer research,

which isn't confirmed. And some of it's gonna be newer research, which isn't confirmed and some of it's gonna be like stuff that is fact and you're just getting a different, you're encountering expertise in a different model essentially. Right, I would agree with that. But again, it goes back to making sure that you are honing your powers of discernment.

Yes. You know, because, you know, there's also, the counterpoint that I would offer to that is that the incentives of the creator economy are to platform and produce content that is heterodox in nature, because that's what, you know, sort of draws attention and creates controversy and news cycles. And when those incentives are driving you in that direction,

you're more likely to entertain the prospect of a two hour conversation with somebody who perhaps hasn't earned it, but whom you know, if you host this conversation, will get a bunch of views and listens and the like. That's right. That's all. Yeah, you're right. But those incentives are kind of that same kind of clickbait.

It used to be a way for the news when the news went, instead of nonprofit went profit, the crazy headlines, which is interesting, because here we're gonna talk about coming up, what you're watching. That's kind of when the news, not long after Vietnam War, probably in the 80s is when the news went kind of veered in that direction

where they're trying to become entertainment with the Night Stalker here in LA, Night Stalker and the Menendez brothers and all these kinds of kind of where we want people to see this splashy news story. We're gonna entertain you with the news. That's kind of when it changed. And so there's always been within the news media model,

this need for an audience, right? So those splashy headlines. The pivotal moment was when we matured into cable news and 24 seven news cycle with CNN, right? And then suddenly we have to occupy all of that geography with constant content. And that was the very first sort of instance in which entertainment started to merge with hard news.

And those lines became, started to get blurry. Right, and so then what happens, even what happens is then all these people who remember Watergate, who remember being told lies by the media before that, and now you see this and you're like, huh, entertainment news, that doesn't sit right. And so now flash forward decades later

and we've become these kind of media cynics in a way. And so when we hear, oh, this sounds fresh, this is different, they're not bought and sold. We go over here, cause it's different, it's fresh, it's indie and we're like, oh, that's interesting. I never heard that before, but that doesn't mean that's any less corrupt than this is your point. Exactly.

And perhaps you should be even more skeptical because that isn't coming at you with any kind of journalistic standards. Right. And it's not presuming to either, but it is often packaged in this shiny kind of idea that it is more true, right? Because it's not laden down by those principles

and the incentives that do drive mainstream media in the wrong direction, you know, often. Yeah. Anyway. I like it. Yeah, but speaking of media diets and maybe not choosing wisely.

Yes. We have to talk about this show, Monsters. You mentioned the Menendez brothers. Monsters is the new behemoth, number one Netflix limited series, courtesy of Ryan Murphy, that tells the story of Eric and Lyle Menendez and the murder of their parents, Jose and Kitty.

And I'm old enough to remember when this happened. I mean, this truly was OJ before OJ. And in furtherance of your point around the shifting of media, this happened to coincide, it was like 1989, I believe, with the premiere of Court TV, which was this 24 seven cable channel that would just show true crime trials.

Like we think of our obsession with true crime. Well, like this is kind of like ground zero for that. Court TV became a thing, right? So the Menendez trial was the first big trial. Yeah, it was prior to OJ. Yeah, it was prior to OJ. Yeah, yeah. And in fact, one of the Menendez brothers,

and you see this in the series, like ends up on the same wing in prison with OJ after the Bronco chase. I didn't get that far. I mean, let's just say, oh my fucking God, this show. Right? Yes. It is wild, this ride. It's classic Ryan Murphy.

It's soapy, it's salacious pulp insanity. Everything is turned up to 11. And this story of the murder and the trial and the aftermath is told through a variety, cause you've only gone three episodes, right? I've watched the whole thing. So this story gets told and told again through a variety of perspectives. unreliable narrators,

not strictly, but sort of Rashomon style. So you see what happened through Jose's perspective. And so you're getting conflicting views on who did what and why this happened in the wake of this. So you're kind of left like, well, what did really happen? And like, who do I trust? And you see this as the trial unfolds, of course, also because you're getting different perspectives

on everything. As soapy and salacious as this is, it's also highly addictive. I like, I had to watch the whole, I like binge this whole thing. I'm embarrassed to say. April was shocked that this is what I was watching for the podcast.

I know. This is like a guilty pleasure, right? And this show is not without its critics. And in fact, Eric made very clear in a statement how upset he is about this. Although I'm not sure he actually saw it, but anyway. Seemed like a team up a lot. He takes issue with how the story is portrayed

in a particular how his brother Lyle is portrayed in the show. But fundamentally it is really a story about generational abuse, much like the bear. And it kind of is, it reminds me of the podcast I did recently with Kimberly Shannon Murphy. Like when you've suffered a significant abuse

in your childhood, like what happens later in life if that's not healed? And this is kind of a story of that to the nth degree on some level. But I kind of wanted to talk about it because there's some super weird details here where my life intersects with this story in strange ways that I didn't know until I watched this

because I thought I knew the story. The first of which is before the Menendez family moved to Elm Street on Beverly Hills, they actually lived in Calabasas, which is where I live. Okay. Yeah, so in the show, you kind of see some scenes

where they're on this beautiful property and ultimately they end up moving from Calabasas to Beverly Hills because the boys went on like a robbery spree where they were like robbing their friends' houses when they were gone on spring break and stealing jewelry. Right. And Jose in the show is like, well, our name's Mud here.

Like we need to leave, like pack your bags. Let's head to Beverly Hills. And they split Calabasas. But I'm watching this thinking, wait, they lived in Calabasas? Like I need to find out where this house is. Oh no, you did that? So I go on Google and I'm like,

I need to find where this actually happened. And it turns out, I'm not gonna give my address out on the podcast, but let's just say I could walk to this house in less than five minutes. So you got the beef house? You got the beef house too. That blew my mind.

I was like, oh my God, these people like literally lived like just down the street from me. So that was wild. The second- They robbed your neighbors. The second, yeah, maybe. The second wild fact is in the show,

the first lawyer that they hire, and I think maybe they might've even hired him to help them get out of these robberies, or maybe it was their first criminal defense lawyer in the aftermath of the murder, is this guy, Jerry Chaliff. And Jerry is a legendary criminal defense lawyer in Los Angeles, had an office in Santa Monica. And he ends up turning the case over to Robert Shapiro

and then ultimately to Leslie Abramson because Robert wasn't equipped to go to, he wanted to like get a plea or whatever and they fired him and hired Leslie. And this intersects with my life because Jerry Chaliff was my lawyer for my DUIs. Oh really? Yeah. So when I got into trouble,

I was working at this law firm in Century City, at the time it was called Christensen Miller. Christensen Miller, Fink, Jacobs, Glazier, Weill and Shapiro. Okay. Shapiro. Standing for Robert Shapiro. So I worked with a lot of the kind of high profile, these were civil litigators,

but often the clients would get into trouble with the law and that's where Robert and Leslie and Jerry would come in. And when I got in trouble, my boss, Skip Miller was like, I need you to call this guy. I've already spoken to him. He's waiting for your call. His name is Jerry Chaliff and here's his number. And so I felt like I had, I was like, I have to do this.

So my job is on the line, I could be going to jail. But I was in no position to handle like paying a top defense. You know, like I was like squandering my money. I didn't really have any money, but I called up Jerry and went to his office in Santa Monica and he became my lawyer and he was great. He was really helpful to me. But one thing that he said to me,

and this might've been in our first meeting, I was like so scared. Like I was facing jail time, two DUIs in a row. Two, two? Yeah. Yeah. Within two months of each other. Like this was not, and I talk about this in Finding Ultra. If you've read my book, I tell the story.

So anyway, I'm like, I'm in the throes of alcoholism, right? And I'm like, I can't go to jail. Like, don't you know who I think I am? Like I'm this lawyer and I'm the, you know, like I'm spinning this yarn about like, you gotta get me out of this, man. I'm like, I can't, this is, I'm not somebody who can go to jail.

Do you understand, right? And he looks at me and he goes, why not? He goes, you're an alcoholic. You got two DUIs, you're a criminal. He goes, I'm not a miracle worker. He just laid me out, right? Like with the hard truth. And that really snapped me out of my denial

and made me realize like the reality of my predicament, which of course was terrifying at the time. But there's a scene in Monsters where Jerry Chaliff does the exact same thing to that. He basically gives that same speech to these brothers. And when I saw that, I was like, oh my God, I remember that, you know, it's wild. And then when he comes to visit them in jail or before that?

I don't remember, cause I watched this like 10 days ago or whatever. But I remember there, it might've been in his office or when he comes to visit, yeah. He kind of, he gives some version of that. You saw that, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, my point being like,

I got the same speech from that guy. And then I ended up working for Robert Shapiro, who's also appears in the show as wild. And I never had any interactions with Leslie Abramson, but I remember when I was working at that, like she was the thing, like she was a big deal, you know? Yeah, of course. Anyway.

That's crazy. So that was wild to kind of remember that. And, you know, LA law, man, it was a wild time. Like Christensen, the name partner in this law firm that I worked in, ended up going to prison because of his hiring of Anthony Pelicano. Do you remember Anthony Pelicano? Of course.

The private eye guy who he had hired to basically snoop info on Kirk Kerkorian's wife, you know, for their divorce trial or whatever, like illegally because his big client was Kirk Kerkorian who owned MGM. Anyway, he went to jail and that was something that was covered in Vanity Fair by Dominic Dunn who was also like played by Nathan Lane in the show. Like it's just like, anyway.

Amazing, you know what? If you listen to this episode, you're now having a whole perception of LA. We're confirming all the Los Angeles stereotypes right now. Air One, yeah. Calabasas. Anthony Pelicana. It's all true. Corruption. It's all true. It's all terrible.

It's all true, Calabasas. You know what? First of all, Javier Bardem and Chloe Sevigny. I mean, how amazing is that cast? Yeah. And I think there's some really excellent performances. Woman who plays Leslie Abramson's great. The kids are good.

Yeah. Pretty wild. Speaking of generational trauma, you have some thoughts on The Bear. Season three of The Bear? This is now officially a TV movies and streaming podcast. Well, before we get into that, I have a new- Should we launch a kind of streaming movie review podcast

as part of voicing change? Like this is what I actually- I like this idea. Well, you know, I thought- I don't know if anyone else does. I was thinking about this in this morning when I was, or actually on my way here, I was like, the Rolly's as I conceive them didn't work,

but the Rollies idea works. And if you did something like, I mean, this isn't your show, you do that show, but then it builds up to the Rollies and the Rollies are best endurance performance of the year, best single sport endurance performance of the year, best multi-sport endurance performance of the year, best adventure of the year,

and then do a TV and movie and a book, six things. Like a wild card. Yeah, six things. Of like content. That sounds good. We can do that. That's a good idea, right? Yeah. Yeah. We could do that. When should we do that? I think you got to wait till the year's out and then we plan it for the spring, right? After you got back from Australia or something. Yeah, that sounds good. Oscar season. You have some choice thoughts about the bear in the meantime though, don't you? The bear season three is not gonna make my nomination list. First of all, let me just say,

bear season one is I think one of the greatest seasons in television history. I love it so much. Season two, I liked, I didn't love it. And I love the Christmas episode. I love the certain episodes. We had this discussion when season two was going on and I thought I don't love it as much as season one, but obviously I respect it. Season three to

me is not good. It's not only like not as good as one and two, it's not good. It's like nothing happens. Like there's no, not only is there no resolution, like the whole, like there's four episode, five episode lead up to the, they're gonna be a, there's gonna be a critic that comes and you don't even find out like what the critic thinks. Like there's so, so little happens. And there's that. The second thing I didn't like about it was Carmi and correct me if I'm wrong,

Carmi's cousin, Richie. Carmi and Richie, the whole show have an antagonistic relationship. They say horrible things to each other, the entire show have an antagonistic relationship they say horrible things to each other the entire show and get over it like that to get stuff done and now suddenly richie can't get over it and car me can't get over it suddenly like they can't even talk about there's not and there's no even resolution about that like there's all it is is this weird subconscious ploy like it's all subconscious to the point

where no one knows what's happening, nothing happens. So it's a show about, it's a good looking show where nothing really happens and no one, and everyone becomes less likable. That's my feeling of season three. That's very harsh. Are you done? Yeah, I'm done.

All right. I will grant you that there are challenges with the way that this season unfolded, but I will choose to interpret it charitably because I believe, and I think this is true, that one season got divided into two. And I think that season three ended up getting kind of extended or kind of extended

or kind of strung out because they know the story they're gonna tell. And that story, which was originally meant to be season three got turned into two seasons. And so I think it created a stall in the progression like the character development and the plot, which may account for that. And I understand what you're saying. That's a lot of people are saying that. I still love the show.

And I would say in counterpoint that there were two episodes that stood out for me. I mean, I agree. Like there's like these bottle episodes where nothing happens and you're just with one character and then you go back and you're like, well, nothing's changed, et cetera. But the first episode, Tomorrow,

which is basically an entire kind of flashback episode with almost no dialogue, I thought was so cool and different and fresh. Like without anybody saying anything, you learn so much about the back, like Carmi's backstory. And you get to see him and I have a soft spot for it because you see him at Noma

and you see him like with Renee Redzepi and there's no words exchange, but you get the energy of like what he's learning and what he's kind of like, what's happening to his brain as he's having these experiences and all of that informs, you know, his approach to food and why he's so maniacal about it. Right.

And also all of the traumatic experiences that, you know, create this drive that is not only making him insane, but also threatening to capsize the entire ship. Because it's like, why is getting a Michelin star so important that they're all like, you know, basically gonna, you know,

push themselves to this, you know, over this cliff to like make something happen that ultimately, you know, is that of any meaning? When meanwhile, the only thing that's making money at this restaurant is the sandwich shop to the side, which is like what they used to, you know what I mean? So it's like, it's in conversation with that. Like, is this, you know, what is really important here?

And then the other episode that I love was the last one, Funeral, where they're at Ever, that restaurant that Olivia Coleman is the chef at. And I just love seeing all the chefs talking. And one of those chefs is Rosie O'Sanchez who has a taqueria in Copenhagen that I actually went to. Like she's part of that like Noma diaspora.

And then, and when I went to Noma and when I went to Sanchez, I was with Jeff Gordon near front of the podcast, like food writer for, you know. Esquire food writer for Esquire and formerly New York Times, but also with Adam Platt, who is a food critic for New York Magazine. All right, yes. And he's Oliver Platt's brother.

Yes, yes. Right, who plays uncle Jimmy. Thomas Keller is in that episode, Will Guadera, who was partners with Daniel Hume in 11 Madison Park and wrote that book on reasonable hospitality, which is all about kind of what Richie learns, like how you serve people by surprising them

and kind of going the extra mile that was built into the DNA of 11 Madison Park and kind of resonates in the bear and kind of the way that they approach service, which I thought was really cool. And I think, I think Will is a, if not a co-writer, like a consulting producer on the show. Okay. So anyway. They all hate me now.

And you know what? Shout out Evan Ross, Evan Monser-Pockerock. Like he, he's just crushing it. He's amazing. So let me, I wanna just, I think it came out a little, I should have been more been more thoughtful in my approach because there's obviously great actors involved and I appreciate all the performances.

I think the weakness here is in the writing because I think that it was the structure just stopped working for me as much as it worked in the first, kind of the different structure worked and it just kind of stopped. I agree the last episode was, the first and last were the two best episodes.

I agree. I think that like what annoys me is when the world you've created is now, like when it doesn't make sense, when I'm questioning this choice, like these characters who I love are doing things, you're like, that doesn't make sense. That actually doesn't track with Car car me season one doesn't track.

Richie and car me his relationship is always been combustible. They've always kind of love hated each other. And so I kind of like, maybe I just missed that. They're kind of being in the same scene. I also feel like they sort of trumped up his relationship with his girlfriend, like through flashbacks that were not earned.

Like, it's like, totally. Was this that big of a deal, this relationship? Now we're supposed to think that it is when I'm not sure they really established that. I never really liked that character anyway. Like I didn't think that, like, I liked, you know, that's not the character that I'm interested in. You know, that's, she's not, she would never really,

she wasn't really of the show, of the essence of the show for me. So it's like, but you know, that's, she's not, she would never really, she wasn't really of the show, of the essence of the show for me. So it's like, but you know, it's, but you know, maybe I'll tune in for season four, episode one. Oh, come on, you know you will. I will, I will. All right, let's move on. What else you been enjoying?

Okay, so I've watched, in terms of television, I'll keep it really quick, Colin from Accounts. It's on, I think keep it really quick. Colin from Accounts. It's on, I think it's on Paramount. It's on Paramount. Yeah, Paramount Plus. Oh no, yeah, it is on Paramount. We actually had to re-sign up for Paramount to watch Colin from Accounts.

It's an Australian comedy. It came out in 2022 on Australian TV and just came over to Paramount, I guess last year. Maybe it came out earlier, but we just found out about it. And it's a rom-com about a late twenties med student and the guy she meets who's a 40 something owner of a brewery. And in the first two minutes of the show, they meet because she's having a bad, rough morning. And she walks in the crosswalk and surprises him and he stops short and then she you know is having boy problems and she flashes him just to kind of like whatever

and he can't believe it and he's so like flabbergasted he stares at her and then he starts going without seeing where he's going and he hits a dog, but the dog survives. And then those three, the dog and those two people, they actually then go and have, like, they create a relationship. And so the dog is, they end up, she ends up having to move in with him. And it's, that all sounds very kind of, I guess, TV convenient, but it's hilariously funny. It's Australian sense of humor. It's completely irreverent. And I highly recommend it. And the couple are actually together in real life.

They're actually married in real life. And the woman who plays the main character, she's the writer creator. Yeah, I've never even heard of this show. Colin from accounts. Amazing. Yeah, you must watch it. And then I saw, I was lucky to go to see a screening

of Maya and the Wave. And Maya and the Wave- Hold on, while we're on Australia though, I would supplement that with checking out the show by the Inspired Unemployed. Yes. Yeah, do you know these guys? You hadn't heard of these guys.

You turned me on to these guys, they're amazing. I love these guys. Oh, yes. Yeah. Do you know these guys? You hadn't heard of these guys. You turned me on to these guys. They're amazing. I love these guys. They're amazing. Australian blokes who have been creating outrageous comedy on social media for a while

with these like skits. Yeah. They're fantastic. They've exploded in Australia and now because of their popularity gets sent to like Formula One and they were in Paris for the Olympics and they've made hilarious videos

with Ned Brockman and Cody Simpson. Like they just, like they have one with Jason Momoa. Like they get to put themselves in all these crazy situations and they're just really clever and hilarious. And they created a TV show that you could only see in Australia, but actually just today, and we're recording this a week before it goes up. That show is now

available on Max in the United States. And who's the main guy, like the skinny guy? I don't know their real names. Okay. He is, I think he's like an incredible performer. Like he can dance. He can, he's hilariously funny. He kind of reminds me, I was telling you, I was like, like there's something about them that is part, kind of part Key and Peele, part Punk'd, part, you know, Chad and JT. There's definitely some Punk'd in there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they, and he like, in a way. And a little jackass, nothing too crazy. But that, that kind yeah, yeah. And they, and he like- And a little jackass. Nothing too crazy. But that kind of like attitude. And a little bit like broad Jim Carrey, like really early Jim Carrey, not to obviously Jim Carrey's a once in a generation guy, but like, he's good.

That guy's very good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're funny. And that's just the Australian sense of humor and that kind of, it's just different. And it made me think, the reason I brought it up before when we were talking about this is, I can't remember an American comedy Australian sense of humor and that kind of, it's just different. And it made me think, the reason I brought it up before

when we were talking about this is, I can't remember an American comedy that I laughed as much as Colin from accounts in a long time. The last comedy I remember laughing out loud that much was Moms, the first season. I don't know if you ever saw Moms. And that is a Canadian show. And so it's like, where's the American comedies

that like are make, you know, aside from South Park, you know, when it comes on or something, where are they? Good question. Yeah. Anyway, all right, Maya Gabrera. Maya Gabrera. Gabrera. Yeah. How did I miss, I don't know, misremember her last name.

Is it, yeah, Maya Gabrera. She's, you might know her. She's the Brazilian big wave surfer. I did a story about her for the New York Times in 2020. There's a documentary about her that just came out. Stephanie Johns is the filmmaker. And Stephanie was with her for a 10 year period. So you're seeing 10 years of Maya's life story. And what's interesting about this doc

is there's stuff that I didn't know. You know, I never, I didn't quite understand when the New York Times story hit what that meant in the context of her life. But basically I knew that she had been, when she started to take on the big waves in Chopo, in Tahiti, that first time she had an experience,

she got, she wiped out in a huge wave and she got a lot of shit for it afterwards. Like, you're endangering X, Y, and Z. Some very big name surfers were openly critical of her, but she kept after it. And Red Bull hooked her up with another surfer, a mentor. He's in this, his name is Carlos Burley, I think. He's a Brazilian surfer. And he was 40 this, name is Carlos Burley, I think, he's a Brazilian surfer.

And he was 40 at the time and he took her on and they started to tow in at Nazare. And then she's kind of building up, building up, building up to it, but she's has injuries and she's kind of finally gets into one and then she wipes out and basically almost dies. She passes out, she gets dragged to the shore, she gets brought back to life.

And then she goes through a period where she's so injured, she can't do anything, she can't move. She's got herniated discs, she has three back surgeries. She loses all her sponsors and then she comes back and she breaks the world record for women's big wave surfing. And then she becomes the person that serves the biggest wave that year breaking

even Garrett's original world record at Nazare. He had 70 feet, she gets to 73 feet. So it's that story. And that's kind of the broad strokes of it, but it's everything she had to fight for because when she first broke the record for women's, the biggest wave of women's ever surfed, I didn't realize how much that was denied. I didn't realize that the WSL pretended it didn't happen. She had to mount a months long campaign through social media, getting petition signed

to get that acknowledged by the Guinness Book of World Records and by the WSL. It wasn't acknowledged for months and months. And then when this wave happened that I wrote about, even then it's not in the movie, but I found out after the fact that even that, the same thing happened again. And what's interesting about this, this is a great film. If you like a 100-foot wave,

if you love great stories about women overcoming odds or people overcoming odds, it doesn't have to be a woman or women athletes. This movie hits on so many levels and it's beautifully shot with a skeleton crew, 10 years, over 10 years. You're in the apartment with Maya. You meet her family.

You see the struggle she goes through. You're in the pre-op and post-op. I mean, you see it all. And what's strange about this movie is that it doesn't have a streaming partner. It's winning, it wins festivals. It is- And no one's picking it up.

And no one picked it up. It's in parallel. It's in conversation with her own personal story with surfing, right? Exactly right. Her challenges trying to establish herself in that world are now echoing in the challenges presented by trying to get a distributor for this film.

I know they've been having screenings all over Santa Monica and a bunch of people have reached out to me. You gotta go see it. And Maya's in LA, you gotta get her on. I DM'd her. She doesn't follow me. So I didn't hear back from her, but it's an incredible story.

Yeah, I mean, I think there's gonna be a time for you, we'll get her on here because she is, it's an incredible story. And then the film itself, Stephanie is doing this, this campaign that's happening now where she's taking the film around. It was in New York, then it's here. Now it's going to the Bay area

and she's gonna continue that. That's to make sure it qualifies for the Oscars. And so if it gets a nomination, maybe that restarts some sort of conversation about getting a streaming partner. So they're just, they're four walling these screenings for Oscar consideration. Basically like they're paying out of their own pocket

to put it in a theater so that you get the, you qualify. And they're going up against a system where like Apple, Netflix, they pay these theaters to like, sometimes Netflix owns the theater. Yeah. And then sometimes- Which used to be an antitrust violation. There's a famous Supreme court case that you learn in law school about the vertical integration

of the studios being an, where it used to be like the studios did own all the theaters and they had to disconnect all of that. So it's confusing to me that Netflix could own theaters. But you kind of need to now in order to keep going to the movie theater is a thing because the economy has changed and people aren't gonna go to the movie theater.

So I don't mind that, but there has to be systems and guardrails in place where indie movies can find a foothold. But like in this case, like she's going to, for her to get a screening at 7.30 at night for a week in a film in New York, that's not easy. That's a lot of phone and she's just her doing it. So Stephanie Johns is the filmmaker.

We'll all get, make sure that the socials are all linked for you. Maya Gaberra is the athlete. It's a phenomenal, phenomenal film. I highly recommend it. And yeah. Cool. Hopefully we get her on streaming somewhere.

Yeah. What's the name of the movie called? Maya and the Wave. Maya and the Wave. Is there a website for that? I guess just Google it, right? Yeah, let me find it here. Yeah, I got it.

Maya, let's see. It is Maya and the Wave. I think that's a good place to kind of end this streaming conversation. Although I did have, I would just say my favorite show of the year is Ripley. I think it's the best show. Just a beautiful work of art by Steve Zalian.

Yeah, it's really exquisite. So if you haven't seen that, check that out. And I did happen to go see a movie called The Substance, which is just absolutely insane. Another thing turned up to 11, this David Cronenberg-esque sort of body horror commentary on beauty standards and aging with like a very stylized,

like Nicholas Reffin kind of vibe to it. Did you see Drive? You know, the- Yeah, yeah, I love Drive. Has a little bit of that sensibility to it. Stars Margaret Qualley and Demi Moore. And Demi Moore, who I think she's 60, 61 now. I don't know if I've seen her in a movie in 20 years, shows up and just lays out like a really brave performance.

Like she's a badass in this film, like totally committed. This is not for everybody. I won't spoil it. It's utterly unique though. It's jarring, it's original. And it's a satire also fundamentally, but I've never seen anything like it. It's just like insane.

Well, I saw what you told me about it and I kind of did a little Googling. It seems like definitely something I'm interested in. It's weird and tortured. Yeah. Yeah. I just wanna say the creator of Colin from accounts is Harriet Dyer. Cause I said the woman, I just wanna make sure.

Harriet Dyer gets her due credit and Patrick Bramall plays the love interest. Got it. I'm gonna check it out. Yeah. All right, let's take a break and we'll do some listener questions. We're brought to you today by a very exciting sponsor, Go Brewing.

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to save 10% on your first purchase of a website or domain. Before we get into listener questions, I think you have a question you want to ask me. Yes, on the back of a substance. I sent you this link to a New York Times article about these anti-aging enthusiasts. Anti-aging enthusiasts are taking a pill to extend their lives.

It's called rapamycin. The question is, and you brought up the substance, would you take a pill like rapamycin recommended by the Peter Attias and the other enthusiasts of the world doctors, even off label, even though it's not for that purpose, just because it gives you more energy, it makes you feel more youthful,

makes you more youthful maybe, without knowing the long-term consequences. What's the red line? Would you take anything like that? Well, with rapamycin specifically, that's a little bit different because there is a fair amount of science. And I know that I think Peter is no longer taking it.

If I'm not mistaken, I don't know. I didn't read that article. Brian Johnson is taking it. Is Brian Johnson taking it? That's what it says in this. Well, Adam, because I just watched the substance, I have learned something. And what I have learned is that there is no free lunch

and the universe has to find a way to bring itself into balance. And so for every take, there's gonna be a give. Yes, that's true. That's just the law of physics, right? Yes. So I'm very leery of anything that makes big promises about stuff like that.

Okay, I won't take it. And they're all like, listen, I'm 58. Like I've been around, right? Like you don't get anything for free. There's always a cost. And so what is that cost? And when you don't know what the cost is, I think prudence is in check.

And this is really kind of like what the substance is about. Like how far are you willing to go to recapture youth and what happens when you make that Faustian bargain, basically. Right, and Pete R.T. is not taking it anymore. I don't know, I don't wanna misspeak. I thought I read something about that or heard something about that,

but he's the one who is super into the science of this compound and the potential that it holds for unlocking something about rejuvenation or health span. Yeah. But I'm no scientist and I don't play one on the internet. And you don't take rapamycin? I do not. All right, I won't take it either.

Even though it just came in from Budapest. It's sitting in your- $820 later. It's sitting on your bed stand and you're just staring at it, wondering whether you should take it. Well, I was gonna call Alex Honnold and see if I should take it.

I mean, it's not like Ozempic or something like that. I think it's, anyway, let's move on. Yeah, we're not taking Ozempic either. Are you gonna read this one? Most of these questions that we're gonna answer now, actually all of them were taken from an Instagram post where I let people type in their questions. Usually we take voicemails,

but that's what we're gonna do today. Yeah, this is the mailbag, I'm the reader. Go for it. I saw that you will soon have another recording with Adam and we're asking the people for some questions. I know the hot topic is now Camille Harris, but I wanted to go a bit deeper in the issue. I would like to know,

how do you think we as consumers and people that get inspired by many of the teachings that are shared on your show should cope with the disappointment of seeing someone you see as a guiding light make things that are against the basic love of your fellow human attitude? shared on your show should cope with the disappointment of seeing someone you see as a guiding light, make things that are against the basic love of your fellow human attitude.

Yeah, Camille Heron, not Camille Harris. Oh, it says Harris, sorry. Yeah, it's an interesting thing that has happened for people that don't know, Camille Heron is a very successful and accomplished world record holding ultra runner who has performed insane feats of ultra endurance predominantly on pavement.

She's not a trail athlete, she's a road athlete and a former podcast guest. She came on the show, she told her story and a controversy has emerged that pivots around Wikipedia. Apparently, Camille and her husband have been caught up in a scandal concerning the doctoring of Wikipedia pages of other athletes like Courtney DeWalter and Killian Jornet, as well as some other athletes

and the ultra marathon Wikipedia page, removing accolades or like sort of downgrading, you know, some of these accomplishments or the adjectives that are used to describe these people. While also like padding Camille's page with unwarranted superlatives, which are kind of verboten on Wikipedia, right? And doing this via like the sock puppet accounts.

And there's been a lot of press, there's articles on Outside and Running Magazine, Canada, et cetera. If you Google it, you can read all about it. Sponsors are now dropping her. Camille made a statement the other day, which was a little weird. It was sort of like, we're good people.

I've been bullied a lot. I've got this mental health stuff. We don't deserve what's happening. She didn't deny what had happened. And her husband, Connor Holt, actually issued a statement where he admitted that he was the one who was managing these sock puppet accounts and basically perpetrating these misdeeds.

And so this has caused quite the earthquake in the ultra running community. There's lots of Reddit threads about it and lots of message board threads on Let's Run and places like that. Right. Where people are sort of decrying this behavior, which is certainly like bad behavior.

It's like, it's disappointing, like really, like why do you feel the need that you have to like cast aspersions on other amazing athletes and great people and then try to buttress your own? Like, it's just, it's weird. I don't care if there's an excuse or a reason, like this is just terrible, terrible behavior.

So it's just concerning, it's disappointing. And it's especially so since she's somebody that, you know, brought on the show and celebrated. And it calls into question like my own, like I reflect back, like, do I have bad judgment? Do I have bad character judgment? Are my instincts wrong? Or, you know, is this, you know, like I wasn't there.

I don't know what happened. Everybody's got their side of the story and I'm certainly not excusing anybody's behavior here. But as somebody who's hosted a podcast for like a long time, right? 850 or whatever conversations, like people are people, we're all flawed. And, you know, something like this is bound to happen

where somebody you celebrated, like a couple of years later does something. And then you're like, well, I mean, I can't be held responsible for that or whatever. Like it's a bummer, but these kinds of things happen. I mean, look at Eric Adams. He's being indicted. Like I had him on the podcast.

I know. I mean, we just talked about his health stuff. Like we didn't talk about politics or policy, but it's like- We didn't ask him his feelings on Turkey. I did not dive deep into his travel through the former Ottoman empire. Hey, listen, I mean, Eric Adams,

that's a great podcast, by the way. But the point is the same, like hold your heroes lightly, I guess, is the answer to the question because we're all flawed, as I said a moment ago. And can we celebrate the best parts of people while also acknowledging their weaknesses and misdeeds? I think so.

This is something you have to contend with in art. When your favorite artist does something horrible, are you allowed to still enjoy their art or do you have to put it aside and say, I can't indulge in that anymore? That's a personal question, right? Every time with every artist and everything that comes out. I mean, look, to me, it seems like,

A, this couple loves Wikipedia. I mean, what I am- First of all, like- They love Wikipedia. What is anybody achieving? Like, is everybody, like, is anybody's mind being changed because of a sentence here or there on Wikipedia?

Like, why are we so deep into Wikipedia? Because they love Wikipedia. They have an unhealthy relationship with Wikipedia. Why are we so deep into Wikipedia? Because they love Wikipedia. They have an unhealthy relationship with Wikipedia. That's one. And the second thing I think is they have an unhealthy relationship with their competitive side. And so what happens, I think it's a mistake, right? They made a mistake.

They didn't harm anybody physically. It's like, to me, it's like- It's deeply uncool. It's deeply uncool. And they have a deeply uncool competitive streak where they're just like, their competitive streak is making them do things that are ridiculous.

And that's what's happening here. That's my, I don't know them, but that's what I'm guessing. And I'm guessing a guy like Killian, who we've talked to a couple of times, is laughing about it. Like, I'm sure he bothers him. Right, do you think Courtney and Killian

are like all worked up about this? No, they're just off like living their best life and being awesome. They're'm sure he bothers him. Right, these people, like do you think Courtney and Killian are like all worked up about this? No, they're just off like living their best life and being awesome. They're too busy training, to be quite honest with you. Right, so it's sort of that meme of Chad LeClo looking at Michael Phelps as they're nearing the, you know, the end of the 100 butterfly

and the idea that like winners are looking forward and the losers are looking at what the competition is doing. Like this is sort of a version of that meme, I guess on some level. It is. Which is just unfortunate. It just makes me sad. Especially in a sport that has sort of celebrated

for having some relationship with purity, like being unvarnished by the kind of behavior that you're more likely to see where a lot of money is involved. That's true. So anyway. That competitive streak, that doesn't just follow money, that's a thing.

Well, you don't break world records unless you got some kind of engine in you. Exactly. And so sometimes that ekes out into bad behavior. Yeah, it'd be interesting to see if there's an injury involved, can't channel it right. You know, it'd be interesting to see, or maybe it really is her husband doing it

without her knowing. Okay, what is your favorite part of the interview process? And what is your least favorite part? I mean, my favorite part is getting to know cool people and then having the opportunity to develop a relationship with them. And then getting to enjoy when the conversation that I host and the message that they convey gets shared with the world

and then the world receives that and is appreciative of that. Like it's meaningful to them. Like, it's just the coolest thing. Like, I love my job. It's the greatest job in the world. And and is appreciative of that. Like it's meaningful to them. Like it's just the coolest thing. Like I love my job. It's the greatest job in the world. And there's so many parts of it that are favorites, I would say. It's just such a privilege to be able to find somebody

in the world who you think is amazing and then convince them to come to you. Like sit here for a couple hours and like talk to you and you get to ask them whatever you want. And you get to repay that by, you know, giving value to them by honoring them, but also, you know, sharing broadly, like what they have to say.

Like, it's just a cool, everything about it is really meaningful to me and beautiful. And so I just, I love all of it. I think something that's particularly meaningful or a favorite is when I can help to create an environment that is comfortable enough that the guest really opens up in a vulnerable way and maybe in a way that they haven't before.

Like that always feels special. And when those moments occur, which aren't that often or frequent, like that's always really special. And then just being surprised by something that they say, because I do a lot of prep and I'm experimenting with less prep now, especially since I'm working on this book

to see what happens. Cause if you do too much prep, then the chances are the likelihood that they're gonna surprise you, gets reduced because you've like listened to all the podcasts and read all the books. You kind of like know what they're gonna say, which drains the experience of the possibility of surprise.

And so I'm playing now with like really holding back from preparing as much as I typically do. I used to think that all, I would pride myself on how much prep that I did. And I know it shows and it's a way of honoring the guests when they know that you've really shown up and you've done your homework and everything like that. But there's also a piece of it that is about insecurity.

Like, oh, I can't just handle this conversation unless I have this like safety net because I've done so much work. And what would it be like if I do enough prep so that I am respecting the guest, but I leave enough of it aside so that I can have those surprises and also to challenge myself

and put myself in a position where I'm forced to be more present because I don't have it all mapped out like where I wanna lead. And I have to be really listening in order to know like, okay, where's the next place to take this? So anyway. And the vice versa, the reverses could also be true.

You could be so caught up in your notes and your plan that you actually miss this left turn. You're not paying attention or whatever. Or you're so insecure that you're just thinking about like, oh my God, when this person is done saying this,

what am I gonna say next? If you're thinking about that, which I'm pretty good at not doing. That's not you. I'm pretty good at not doing, but like that can happen. Like I'll have like a moment and I'll be like,

oh my God, I lost my train of thought. Right, yeah, yeah. And then I forget like, well, this isn't live anyway. Like, you know. That's true. Not that we do that much editing, but that's easily rectified. Anyway, but my least favorite part

is publicist interference. This is really the nadir of this podcasting experience. And again, this is a very like privileged complaint because I'm in a position to host guests that actually have publicists. And a lot of publicists are great and they help do all the background stuff and the scheduling and the outreach.

Like a lot of the guests that I have are because a publicist emailed me and said, hey, would you like to have this person on? So I'm not disparaging the corporate infrastructure of publicity at large, but I think what can happen and what I've seen happen is publicists with good intentions feel the need to assert themselves

because they feel like they're not doing their job if they don't. And sometimes those insertions, while perhaps well-intended, end up like derailing. Like they work at cross purposes with the goal, which is to like, how can we create a piece of content that's gonna celebrate this person and put them in the best light possible

and create a really meaningful experience for the audience. And it's not unusual for a publicist to come in and put guardrails up or say, we have to be done by this time or this person can't do this or that. And that all happens kind of like behind the scenes. And that's like really not fun. And is kind of a drag.

Does that happen more with like really well known guests? Yeah, but I've had great experiences with publicists with really well known guests and bad experiences with publicists of lesser known guests. It's not like a universal thing. It's not like, oh, the bigger they are, the more. I mean, the bigger somebody is, the more cooks there are in the kitchen.

And there's a lot of kind of people in their wheelhouse. And part of engaging with those people is you kind of have, you have to like, you have to work with those people, right? And that's fine. That's part of like this whole thing. And that's great. But it's only when it starts to interfere with those people, right? And that's fine. That's part of like this whole thing and that's great.

But it's only when it starts to interfere with the content itself. Like I'll tell a story and I won't name the guest, but I had a guest on and we were, I don't know, 45 minutes into this podcast that was meant to be two hours. And I got a note handed to me by a team member that said the guest has a hard out and has to like leave like in five minutes or whatever.

And I don't want to make the guest late for anything or cause the guest problems. I'm always trying to work with them and honor their, you know, what their constraints and like meet their needs, et cetera. So I ended up ending this podcast quite early only to discover that there was no hard out. Like they just didn't wanna be in traffic

or something like that. And this was at the behest of the publicist and the guest is never the problem. The guest is always fine. Like they don't even know what's going on. Like they're cool. So anyway, I'm not saying it happens a lot, but it does happen from time to time.

And it's led me to have to create kind of rules around like beforehand, like making clear, like this is what we're doing. And this is the, you know, it has to be this amount of time and you're welcome to sit and, you know, be in the studio while it's happening, but no interference and all that kind of stuff. And it still happens from time to time.

So I would say that's my least favorite. Publicists that don't like traffic. With a note, come to the West Valley publicists. We eat traffic for breakfast. And I'm all like being a people pleaser too. Like I'm sensitive to the fact that like my studio is not close, you know, it's like somebody, like a bigger person who's like doing a lot of media.

Like it's a great imposition for them to come all the way out here. It's really not that big a deal. And you know what, you're going against traffic on the way home. So I think their traffic radar was off. Is there such a thing as going against traffic in Los Angeles?

They should have dialed an Angeleno. Dial an Angeleno, born and bred. All right, next question. All right. When is Julie coming back on the pod? Next week. All right. So asked and answered. Okay, good.

Next one. I'd love to interview Julie, by the way. Oh, really? Yeah. You should. I talk all about Alaska. She'd probably love to be interviewed by you. All right, there you go.

We're gonna make it happen. You talk a lot about growth and how far you've come. What are your current flaws? Wait, which current flaws are you working on now? Which of your many current flaws? There's so many. I mean, like how many hours are we gonna- Did someone ask you on Instagram?

Yeah, what are your current flaws that you're working on? Yeah, let's go. I feel like I'm pretty open book on my flaws. You are, you are. I have tons of flaws. I think it's more a question of like, which flaws are like coming up and interfering

with my wellbeing the most at the current moment. You know, as I said to you on the phone this morning, like I'm a little worn out. I've been grinding. Workaholism is a real thing. And so that's a flaw that I'm working on, like not falling into the trap of allowing myself to be defined by work.

And I think with that, like doing a better job of liberating myself from the many opinions of the many others that can imprison you and to which I admit to feeling captured from time to time. I've got a lot on my plate and I kind of shoulder that responsibility heavily. So it's wearing me out.

I've been a little more fatigued than normal as I'm trying to figure out like a way of like holding onto all of this stuff a little bit more lightly, with a little more levity and finding a way to turn work into more of a playful thing. And I just, when I hear people start talking about play, I start to get like, that's a real struggle for me. Play? Yeah. Make it play.

And I'm like, really? I don't know, man. That's a leap. That's a leap that I have not taken. I mean, I think there's a lot of wisdom in that because I think, I'm somebody who's made their way in the world through like this grinding mentality.

And like, if you're not suffering, you're not working hard enough. And if you haven't like bled out and left it all on the field, then you're holding back. And I'm always trying to figure out like, have I pushed myself hard enough? And with that, there's a lot of self judgment, I think. When in truth, especially with creative things,

like if you can release those reins and inhabit more of a kind of a playful state about what you're doing, you're making space for more creative inspiration. But those two approaches are like in conflict with each other sort of, right? So that's always like a tension that I'm trying to figure out.

That's it. I relate to that because I had this experience sending a manuscript out to publishers and I held, I was like, we talked about it. I was gripping so hard the first few weeks. It was like, the first week was fine. But then I was gripping so hard after that.

And I don't wanna get too into detail about it, but like, I just, I wished at that moment I was a different human being. Like that someone who could not care or not care, cause you're gonna care, but like hold it lighter. Like, why does it have to be this huge burden? It doesn't actually matter.

The outcome of it is going to change my life really in any material way. And holding on tightly to it, not only isn't gonna help the situation, usually like you're constricting the energy. You know what I mean? Because you have an outcome that you're attached to, right? And if you can like let go of that, you're actually in a better kind of energetic position

to have that outcome occur. Yeah, you just feel better. You're not grinding yourself down. So it's interesting. I thought you were gonna get into this whole thing with the flaws when you have workaholism. Remember those when people would say like on dates, what are your flaws?

Well, I'm just driven to be successful. I care too much about my business. I'm so successful that I can't relax. And I probably worked too hard in the gym. I just care too much. The six pack, I gotta keep it shiny. Is this your flaw, Adam? What are your flaws?

Let's get into it. My flaws? Oh my God. How long do we have? My current flaws that I'm working on, I think are just that, like my current, my major flaw is insomnia. That's my major flaw. Yeah.

Well, if that's your flaw, like then nothing else works in your life. Right, that is my flaw. Things are working, but like, it's just my, how I feel about, like, I will say this. I came through this period

where I was feeling like, so like I came, I hit this two week, three week period where I was like, God, I feel so optimistic about the world. And then I stopped sleeping well. And it crashed, crashed and burned, but I still feel pretty good. Yeah, your worldview about the world and then I stopped sleeping well. And it crashed and burned, but I still feel pretty good. Yeah, your worldview will shift quickly

when sleep disappears. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know. I think my flaws are, some of my flaws are here to stay, unfortunately. Don't be so defeatist. I think that brings us to our next question. Yeah, let's see. Yeah, that's very relevant

to our final question of the day. Why are you obsessed with the nature of change and transformation? I'm just, I'm too attached to solving Adam's dilemma of thinking that he's gonna have to live with these flaws his whole life. And I would like to empower him to feel like he could overcome them,

that he could transcend these flaws. Do you think that's possible? I have a thought. Well, I have a, so over the last seven years, I had, I broke a foot, then I tore a tendon in that foot, then I had a herniated disc in my low back, then I had an impingement in my shoulder and then a herniation in my neck.

And that's happened over like the course and since like I hurt my foot, it's kind of come up over the last year where it just keeps coming up higher in the body. And there was a period of time where I thought, man, I like just can't catch a break physically. Like what is happening? I used to be so healthy all the time and what is going on? And then what I realized is going through this PT and it's really kind of crystallized when I finally got back to running is that all of this stuff is I've been slouching my whole life and everyone has been told me I'm slouching. It's not like my posture is all of a sudden great,

but it's much better. And my running posture is much better. Everything is better for this injury thing that I thought was dragging me down. Everything is, I'm getting better through this process. And I know that that's something we hear a million times. So that change where I've been slouching since my whole life, I'm actually, probably my posture has never been better, even though it's not good, but it's never been better than it is now

since I'm like a toddler probably. And so I think that there is always a chance for change. I shouldn't have said some of my flaws are here to stay. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good story. You're sticking with that story? Well, it's, you know, how about this?

I've been running a while. Nobody has ever told complimented me on how I look during a run. Like if they see me coming and I'm breathing hard, they'll be like, you're like, okay, bro, you're going hard. Like no one's ever said, hey, you're looking good. No one's ever said looking good to me when I run past them until this last run. Oh, that happens. That happens. Yeah. Cause my running posture, I'm much, I'm more like Robbie Ballinger now. You know how Robbie's very, very upright.

I've gone upright. Wow. And that allows me to gauge my core, which allows me to engage my glutes. And it's not just my, I'm just running with my full body now. Interesting. Yeah. And that allows me to gauge my core, which allows me to engage my glutes. And it's not just my, I'm just running with my full body now. Interesting. Yeah. That's great. You are a change agent. Robbie Ballinger. Yeah.

Thank you, Robbie. The story that I wanted to focus on though, and that, and then I'll get to my answer to this question, is how you recounted like this happened, and then this happened, and this injury, and that injury, and that, and like, you're telling me this and I'm like, okay, those things are all true, but you've now created this story.

Like all my physical stuff is bad. Like these are all the things that have happened that are bad. And like, there's a sort of self-defeating aspect of that story, right? Like, but I think it's helpful to take a step back and realize like, oh, that is just a story. Like you could easily form a new story

where you decided to not really value all those things and instead they, oh, and like pick like five positive things that you did physically, right? And just tell that story. Like both of those stories are true to some degree or another, both of them are false to some degree or another. And I think our relationship to change

and our ability to navigate change has a lot to do with how we think about ourselves and the stories that we tell about who we are and what we're capable of, right? And most of those stories we do, we form them unconsciously like, oh, I'm this person, you know, and it's like, you don't even really think like, well, why am I telling myself that I'm unreliable

or I'm always late or I'm undeserving of this? Like something happened in your past or your unconscious mind has selected certain events that have occurred in your life. And your unconscious mind has decided that these are important, these are significant. These are like mile markers that are, you know, bricks on the wall of like your identity.

And the more we sort of affirm those stories, And the more we sort of affirm those stories, the more we drive outcomes in our real life. And so I think change is about challenging those stories and then holding on a little bit more loosely to our identity of who we are. Like I'm always a person who does this. I'm always a person who's slouched. Yeah, maybe that's true,

but also maybe you're something else as well. Yes. I'm always a person who's slouched. Yeah, maybe that's true, but also, you know, maybe you're something else as well. Yes. You know what I mean? Right, yeah. And I think to kind of answer the question, which I think is a great question, like, well, first of all, like, why am I obsessed with this? I mean, I'm obsessed with it because in part,

I've been able to make significant changes in my life, but also like I'm completely hamstrung by trying to make other changes. Like I still struggle just like anyone else. Like I really don't stand on a pedestal with this, but I am curious about like why I was able to do that and I'm unable to do this and why other people seem to,

as soon as they get information about how to be better, they just grab it and they make the change and they move forward and other people like really struggle. And for this, it's like an impossible mountain to climb. And I think trying to understand the nature of this dynamic is something that will help me, but also, you know, I'm in a position to kind of share it to help other people. Because I do believe that like all of us have a latent

better version of ourselves inside of us. Like whether we're aware of it or not or put energy into trying to like bring that to life. I think it's true. Every single person could be a little bit better than they are today. Yes, in a number of ways. Yeah, of course.

And what's so interesting. And I think at the root of this kind of like curiosity that I have, I don't know if it's an obsession, but certainly an interest, is because it's so mysterious, right? Like, why is this? It's so hard for others, easier for other people still. And this is something that can't be distilled down

to like a math equation. It can't be turned into some reductive list of like principles or pillars, no matter how many like self-help books are out there on this subject matter, because it's messy. It involves the psychology of human behavior. It's about like deconstructing those stories that I just told you about.

It's about identity and how we hold onto it. It's about where deconstructing those stories that I just told you about. It's about identity and how we hold onto it. It's about where those stories come from, how to write new stories. And there's also like kind of a mystical, ethereal element to this that's about like faith and surrender and all of these concepts that I was first introduced to in recovery that have been transformative in my life,

but are very difficult to wrap your arms around. And also to kind of translate to somebody who just wants to see it as carpentry and bricks and mortar, like do this, do that, like do this and your life will change, right? Yes, that's true. So why do we get in our own way? And why do we find it so difficult to do those things?

Because of all the messiness that is the human psyche. Can I add two things to that? Yeah. Because I love that. And I love talking about why you like change. Could it be, what is life really? What does life do? What does life do?

That's a good question. Life evolves, right? Yeah. Life is about evolution. That's what is a continued evolution. And the stories, if you go back and look at all the stories we told through mythology, through philosophy, but like specifically the hero's journey

that was identified by, why am I spacing on the hero with a thousand faces? Joseph Conrad. We can't remember names like we used to. Campbell, Campbell, Campbell. Joseph Campbell. How dare you? He, so heroes, yeah,

cause I'm not sleeping well, I can't remember anybody's name, but he kind of cracked this code, the storytelling that we've had in all human history. And what he found is every culture has these stories that, that are about a person in trouble, confronting the obstacles that are their life, overcoming them and getting to,

to this, this place of this new, new, new self getting to the new self. Those are the stories we've been telling ourselves since humans kind of formed societies. And so could it be that idea that this nature of change transformation

is so interesting to you because you are interested in, it's almost like life speaking through you. And like these heroes journeys that we hear about, we read stories that are the classics, whether it's Star Wars in our time, in our present day or biblical stories of the past. Now we're with the internet and technology,

we're getting to hear everyone's hero's journey because we all have them, right? We all, and if we don't, we're capable of them. So like you are this agent that is getting these new heroes journeys out into the airwaves. And then people are listening and they're like, wait, I wanna be a hero.

I wanna be my own hero. And it's like this kind of domino effect you're having. And it's because life evolves and it's evolving now and we're evolved. And it's kind of like the story is coming through you in a way. Could it be a subconscious element, something that it's not even about

what's going on in your brain, but some organic element. That's a cool idea. I'm gonna noodle on that. Maybe, maybe there's some truth to that. I don't know. But like that was a really kind of beautiful monologue to end today's episode.

Thanks, man. We went all over the place. That was a rollercoaster ride. We went high, we went low. I fell out of practice at the beginning, to be honest with you. No, thanks, man. We went all over the place. That was a rollercoaster ride. We went high, we went low. I fell out of practice at the beginning, to be honest with you. No, it was good.

By the way, this is excruciating. Is it still hot? We forgot to do the 30-minute intervals. It's like still hot. Sharp needles. Do you think it would be that hot

if you had like the Stanley Cup? You know, the Stanley, the ones that... I mean, we're hours into this yeah good job good job all right well maybe maybe just seal it up and we'll keep it here and the next time we do roll on we'll unpack it and see if it's still hot it'll be drinkable yeah all right yeah all right love you buddy thank you cheers peace all right boom done Namaste. All right. Boom. Done.

This episode was brought to you by Seed. Visit seed.com slash richroll and use the code richroll25 to redeem 25% off your first month of Seed to DS01 Daily Symbiotic. Today's episode is sponsored by Whoop. I'm proud to support Whoop's Sober October initiative. Go to join.whoop.com slash roll to start your free trial. That's join.whoop.com slash roll. That's it for today thank you for listening i truly hope you enjoyed the conversation to learn more about today's guest including links and resources related to everything discussed today visit the episode page at richroll.com where you can find the entire podcast archive my books finding ultra voicing Change in the Plant Power Way,

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