The Rich Roll Podcast - ROLL ON: Ask Me Anything

Episode Date: May 25, 2023

Welcome to an old-school style of ‘Roll On’—the semi-regular version of the podcast where we ramble on matters of interest across culture, sports, art, literature, politics, self-betterment, and more. My co-host is Mr. Adam Skolnick, an activist, veteran journalist, author of One Breath, and David Goggins’ Can’t Hurt Me and Never Finished co-author. Today we exchange updates on personal goings on, tell highlights from recent travels, share streaming selects and media diet recipes, discuss listener inquiries, and more. Show notes + MORE Watch on Youtube Newsletter Sign-Up Today’s Sponsors: InsideTracker:  insidetracker.com/RichRoll Momentous: LiveMomentous.com/richroll Indeed: Indeed.com/RICHROLL Timeline Nutrition: timelinenutrition.com/richroll SriMu: http://srimu.com/rrp Peace + Plants, Rich

The Rich Roll Podcast. Good to go. Excuse me, I'm having a Nespresso. Come on, man. This is the part where I introduce the show. I'll allow it though. Make it quick. Okay.

While you're sipping. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Roll On. We are returning after a few, are you done? You're done, okay. After a few journalistic docudrama adventures, sort of audio long reads, if you will. Yes. Sprung from the mind of Adam Skolnick

into the worlds of AI and sustainable travel. But today, today we're gonna snap back. We're gonna snap back and do an old school OG rendition of the show where Sir Adam, Lord of the swim mask and I catch up on life. We're gonna shoot a little bit of shit, share sundry matters of interest peaked. We're gonna shoot a little bit of shit. Share sundry matters of interest peaked. We're gonna answer your questions

with a heavy emphasis today on the questions and answer piece. And then we're gonna call it a day. We got things to do, right? We're gonna get in and we're gonna get out. Yeah, I've got, my car is getting detailed out there. So I need to be out of here. Yes, would that be your Tesla, Adam? My car is getting detailed out there, so I need to be out of here. Okay, yes.

Would that be your Tesla, Adam? Why isn't there a detail thing in my compensation package? I think I need auto detailing. In your rider? Yeah. With the show? Yeah, when I come here, I need to get other stuff done. Well, let me take a look at the download numbers and we'll see.

It depends on how it goes today. Don't do that. Right, okay. But how are you doing, man? It's been a minute. We've done those other roll-on shows, but we haven't sat down and just kind of like, you know, did a mind melt and caught up on life.

I miss you. Miss you too. This is where we connect on different subjects. Over the phone, it's nice, but like this is, I feel like this is our relationship. Yeah. Right here. It's a bond.

It's a bromance. I'm glad you said it. But happy to be back in this chit chat friendly format that has been, you know, that people have requested it. That's true. I'm gonna get into that in a little bit. But first you dropped a banger on the New York Times once again.

Yeah, thank you. With all kinds of photographs. I know, I didn't do any of the photos. All I was was the photo facilitator, which is my want when I collaborate with a photographer. This was Caitlin O'Hara. She's fantastic. She's based out of Phoenix.

And this was the Scar Swim, which a lot of swimmers who listen to this will know exactly what it is. For people who don't know, it's a 40 mile open water swim across the Arizona desert, which does not compute, right? It's this crazy thing. There's a river called the Salt River just outside of Phoenix in Mesa, Arizona. called the Salt River just outside of Phoenix in Mesa, Arizona. And the Salt River was kind of used for thousands of years to feed kind of indigenous cotton plots and squash fields and all that.

So it's always been kind of this agricultural phenomenon, this water that just kind of moves through the desert and pass these amazing mesas and buttes and kind of eroding hills with saguaro cactus and mesquite. It's quite beautiful. But they were dammed in the early 20th century to light up Phoenix and Mesa and then to feed the citrus and cotton fields

that came up at that period of time in the early 20th century. So these dams are like, you know, the golden age of American, you know. Right, art deco, beautifully constructed, yeah. Monuments to human ingenuity. Yeah, I know that dams have now since been thought of to be damaging and we didn't know what we were doing.

We, you know, that's always the case, right? You know more later, but I mean, you gotta say, like these things are spectacular. One in particular, the one on Apache Lake separates Apache from Roosevelt. So the idea is you swim from one end of the dam to the next and the next day you start at that, the other end of that dam

and then you swim down to the next leg and it's ongoing. Yeah, 40 mile stage race. Yeah, nine mile, nine and a half mile, nine mile, 17 mile and then a 10K swim. Wow. And the 10K swims at night just to make sure it's not too easy. Right.

I like that. This is the natural progression and evolution of ultra endurance, right? We've seen these ultra distance cycling adventures and running, of course, and triathlon, but not a lot. I mean, there's marathon swims out there, but they're sort of standalone things, but a stage race ultra marathon swim competition is pretty cool. Yeah, it's're sort of standalone things, but a stage race, ultra marathon swim competition

is pretty cool. Yeah, it's cool. It started about, there's been, this is the 10th edition of it, but there was one year where they didn't do it because of COVID. So it started in 2012. Kent Nicholas, who is basically a,

what's the term I use? They edited it out. The lawyer from Breaking Bad, Saul Goodman. He's got a Saul Goodman client list and he's an incredibly charismatic, awesome dude, but has that little Saul Goodman kind of twinkle in his eye. Started it because he's a swimmer

and he was preparing to swim Catalina. And so he would swim a saguaro and he had this idea cause he could swim a three mile stretch, and then back. So it's a six mile total swim in saguaro in an area that is kind of cordoned off. So boats can't come in. Cause these lakes, you know,

boaters are always in there and the party boats, like pontoon boats, you know. But so he decided, hey, what if we swam all of them? So he called some friends and I don't know, it was like seven or eight people showed up for that one. I think seven, two finished, including Kent. And the next year he stopped swimming it because he was running it.

And this year there were 58 swimmers, 38 were women. And that's the other thing I didn't know. I mean, I knew that there were, there's thousands of these, of swim races, whether it's 5K, 10K, or even longer ones around the world. And then of course there's all the channel swims, which are like kind of the gold standard in the sport. But you're right, stage races are less common.

And what I didn't know, even though I've covered open water swimming, I didn't realize how dominant women are in the sport, which is really cool. I thought that was, and that was so evident when it's almost two to one women, you can't really, even I can't miss that.

As the distances get longer, the gender gap shrinks, but there's something specific about open water marathon swimming, where that gap is even smaller than it is in other endurance sports. Women really distinguish themselves. In all of endurance you're saying? No, I'm saying with marathon swimming.

Yeah, I think so. Yeah, so that was great. I mean, it was an exquisite race with, and what's cool about this race is you get these people, heads of channel associations from all over the United States and people who've swam all these amazing channels from all over the world, they all show up there and they trade secrets and they like advocate,

hey, come swim my race, come drive. I was invited to like three different races just being there. It's one of those kinds of flashpoints for this community. I feel like it's still, like it resembles what ultra running probably looked like in the, I don't know, mid nineties. Yeah.

Like this really specific, very small insular subculture where everybody knows everybody and it's just pitch your tent and do the race and nobody notices kind of thing. But when you start writing about it in the New York Times and everybody's looking for, you know, what's the next cool adventure

and people are talking about it on podcasts, like these are the things that, you know, the seeds are planted for this to grow anyway. So a couple last thoughts on this though, I wanted to say, I met an incredible woman named Sarah Thomas, who I've mentioned in the piece, you know who Sarah Thomas is? She's the first to swim the English Channel four times in a row, four times in a row.

Wow. You know how you like drop your stuff on the pool side and it's cool video and then we all see it and then do laps? Right, she's doing that between France and England. Isn't that amazing? That is. She also said-

How long did that take? 25, was it 52 hours, something like that? I forget, I have to look. It was some crazy number. She swam Lake Powell, 100 miles across Lake Powell or something. And she said, my stroke looked solid. That's what she said. Well, there you go.

I thought that was nice. Is that what you want on the gravestone? Is that the epitaph? Sarah Thomas, his stroke looked solid. You know why? But she's a recruiter, like that's her day job. She's a recruiter. And she said- Listen, you're coming in hot

from the New York Times. She's gonna tell you that you look good. Wait, you're just counting? In your swim mask and the whole thing. I had the full swim mask. And she said, my stroke is all, but then I later found out that people come to her in Denver and say, hey, I'm thinking about doing a 5K

or 10K and by the time she's done talking to them, they're training for the English channel. So she might have a certain way about her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there was two brothers I wanted to tell you about, Joe and John Zimantes. And they swam doubles of everything except for the 17 mile swim.

They had their own little Zodiac. They swam doubles and Joe trains all the time. John doesn't even train. He hadn't swam since February. And he just get, he just did his doubles. So he did 80 miles. Yeah, they did 80 miles. Well, they did doubles of everything

except for the 17 mile swim. It just wasn't part of their program. Doubles except for the hard day. Okay, no, that's great, amazing. Yeah, pretty amazing to see these guys just swimming out there, you know, like the guy did a flip turn at the dam. I saw him do a flip turn.

Just went right back. He went back. So pretty cool. And it's also cool to see, you know, I myself have fallen into the trap to think of athletes in a certain body type. You know, I've always thought, you know, we know what, we think we know what fit is.

And open water swimming kind of really challenges that because people come in all shapes and sizes and you wouldn't pass half these people on the street and think that's a monster athlete. But these are people that have done incredible feats. And so, you know, it's just, I think just, it was a reminder for me to check myself on what I think an athlete looks was a reminder for me to check myself

on what I think an athlete looks like and who an athlete is because they're everywhere. And we walk past and we have no idea. It's like lock butt in Whole Foods. Yeah, and there's something about when the distances become longer and longer and longer, where the body shapes that show up and distinguish themselves in those events

don't fit what you have in your mind. Like if you think of the 3,100 self-transcendent run in Queens every year, where they just run around the block like all summer long until they get 3,100 miles, like the people that are crushing it, you would never pick out of a lineup and say that person is an athlete. And in open water swimming,

particularly when cold water's involved, you have to put on a lot of weight. Like you need to keep your body warm. If you don't put on that layer of blubber, then you're gonna be using so much energy to keep yourself warm that you're not gonna be able to keep swimming. So you see people who look quite large,

you show up and you think that person isn't fit at all. They are very fit. It's just underneath like this added pad or layer that allows them to stay in the water for extreme periods of time and also float better. Yeah, yeah. So it's a weird thing. They cover themselves in Crisco and like all of that.

Well, yeah, yeah, Destiton now, it's like diaper rash cream now is the main one. Have you ever thought about doing Crushed Nut Channel? You'd be fucking great. I don't like cold water. But you could do Sugaro like in Japan or you could do- I thought about it.

I mean, I did, you know, when my back was causing me problems at the outset and running long distances was sort of off the table for a period of time, I thought, well, let me, I signed up for the Key West swim, which I think was 10K. And then like the flip turns really aggravated my back and I had to back off. So right now I'm just about getting well

before I can consider. Yeah, you were thinking of 10K. But like putting like something like a race like that, you know, that you were just at does sound interesting to me. I think that sounds fun because I've never done a pure swim ultra. And you know, I think that I would be fairly okay at that.

It was super fun. You know, like it was cold, like average temperature I think in the morning was like 55, but it got up to like the low sixties and the air temperature is so warm. Like they, Kent insisted I get in, he wanted me to get in for at least a half an hour. And I was in there for like hour 45.

And I didn't, you know, I could have kept going. It's just that I got dropped by basically everybody in the field. But it was- Did you keep diving down looking for fish? No, it was like green, a lot of nutrients in the water. The river was like a green river. I mean, the people are awesome.

I definitely recommend it if you do feel motivated. I mean, it's cool. I mean, swimming is your thing. It's fun to see these athletes, Catherine Breed and Michael Rice were really amazing to watch the two winners. So that was that. How are you, man?

You've been everywhere. I'm good, but why don't we stick a pin in it for right now, take a quick break and we'll be right back. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment, an experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing

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again, go to recovery.com. Do you know how they say a lawyer is his own worst advocate or a doctor, his own worst patient? Sure. Yeah. Well, I think that adage could be extended to podcasters being the last to take their own counsel. Because I was so heavily influenced by all of your inspirational reporting on sustainable travel that in the last month,

I have flown to and from Italy, London, and Northern California, and in three days I'm heading to Australia. Well. So I will purchase carbon offsets for all of these things, but I would hardly call that sustainable travel. It's unsustainable travel.

It's sustainable for my soul. Yes. But perhaps not in the best interest of the planet. Instead of carbon offsets, let's make a donation of the carbon offset price to tree people in Los Angeles. All right, I can do that. Yeah.

That's easy. But yeah, I got back from Europe. We were in Italy. Julie and I co-hosted our retreat that we've done many times in the Tuscan countryside. I would say that it's mostly Julie's retreat. She takes over and spins her magic, but we had an incredible time in this beautiful location.

Whole family, right? Between Florence and Siena. Yeah, it's a place called Borgo Isolana. All our kids came. We had an amazing group that bonded immediately. And it was, you know, everything we hoped it would be. Community, connection, food, meditation, yoga, breath work, journaling, tea ceremony, fire ceremony.

Wow. A little witchcraft, some music, some hiking. What kind of witchcraft? Well, you know, Julie doing fire ceremony, anything can happen. She's like- We did holotropic breathing. She's like the cool fire sorceress.

She's a fire priestess. She's from Game of Thrones. She is. Man. Yeah, it was really cool. And although I would have preferred my back to be in a little better condition, so I could have gone running on the trails

and that kind of thing, that was a bit of a bummer. In fact, one day I was kind of totally laid up, which wasn't great, but it was a really great reminder of why it's important to spend time with groups of people in and away from your daily life. It was just fantastic and very nourishing. So let me ask you as we're running these retreats, is there a level of customer service involved? Yes, we got a whole team.

You got a whole team. Mel is our producer. She's amazing and unbelievable with all of that. Yeah, she's fantastic. She managed it all. Unbelievable with, yeah, all of that. Yeah, yeah, she's fantastic. I recorded a live podcast with one of the attendees, Dr. Alan Desmond, who's a outstanding plant-based

gastroenterologist in the UK. We were very lucky to have him. So I'll be sharing that at some point. He's a return guest, you've had him. No, I haven't had him on before. No, I haven't, I haven't. Well, I've not heard of him before. He's fantastic. He's a return guest, you've had him. No, I haven't had him on before. No, I haven't. I haven't heard of him before. He's fantastic. He's making all these videos on Instagram

that pop up on eating your fiber and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. He was cool. And that retreat I had announced, when we did roll on last, when I was announcing it, that it was gonna be our last one. And it was so rewarding that who knows, like there's a question mark there

as to whether we're gonna do it again or not. Count us in. Yeah, well, we're not committed yet. Come spend two days with me. With Adam instead. At a hostel in Florence. We would love to have you. All the Skolnick heads coming out of the woodwork

to hang out in Italy. Obviously I'll keep everyone posted on that. And the website for that is ourplantpowerworld.com. But this is kind of like a static landing page. But again, I'll share when we have clarity. Your posts from there were awesome. I mean, I felt the energy. We had Leah, our photographer that was originally

our babysitter and nanny that Julie realized had quite an extraordinary eye and invested in developing her and then allowed her to, like hired her to photograph two of her cookbooks when she could have hired any food photographer to do it. And Leah was just a young person at the beginning of her career. And she really thrives in the opportunity

and is amazingly talented and has gone on to become quite a notable photographer and videographer and storyteller who works with Zach Bush and his farmer's footprint organization. But she came and did all those amazing photographs that I've been sharing. And there's tons more,

like I don't wanna like bleed the feed, but like there were so many incredible pictures that she took from that. Julia is a powerful woman. Yeah, she is. She's good. She's very good at spotting potential and talent. That's cool.

But then also not just spotting it, but then wanting to develop it, like getting fulfilled from helping people reach their potential. She's really good at that. Yeah. And then I went to London for a week with Jaya, our youngest, stayed on Portobello Road

in the heart of Notting Hill, which was amazing. And just kind of did the tourist thing. Went to the Tate Modern. I love Tate Modern. We saw a street car named Desire in the West End. Oh really? Yeah, which was cool. Starring Paul Mescal.

Oh wait, a remake? Well, yeah, it's just up. It's been playing with great reviews in the West End and it's starring this guy, Paul Mescal. Okay. As Stanley Kowalski, who is on the cusp of becoming a big deal. Indie film fans will know him from a movie called After Sun

that came out last year. Okay. In which he was great. But apparently I heard that he's the lead in the Gladiator 2, the new Gladiator movie that Ridley Scott is doing. So when that comes out- Maybe Ridley went and saw Streetcar Named Desire in the West End.

Maybe, I don't know. Well, After Sun, there was one other movie that he did. What's it called? I forget right now. So he's definitely like with young people, they're all about this guy. So that was really fun. Went to this amazing David Hockney exhibit,

like an immersion exhibit. I shared some stuff on Instagram stories about that, where you go into this cavernous sort of gigantic warehouse type room and they project in 360 degrees, Hockney's art in this kind of pastiche, kind of overlapping semi animated style with not voiceover by him, but kind of guided,

like sort of recorded stuff. His voice recorded over the years, like reflecting on his career and his art. And that was super cool, especially all the stuff about Los Angeles and why he loves LA. I love hockey. How he painted Los Angeles.

No one had really captured it. And the desert also. Yeah, his love for the desert, which was just, I mean, I recommend it. It was one of the coolest things I've ever seen. It's like the same, is it the same people that did the Van Gogh and now they're doing hockey? I don't know, I know there's that Van Gogh immersion.

I don't know if it's the same people and I haven't gone to that exhibit yet, so I'm not sure. But this was at a place called Light Room. If you're in London, you should definitely put that on your list, it was very cool. I went to the Tashin flagship that used to be, there used to be, or it wasn't a flagship. In Beverly Hills?

It was the one on Beverly Boulevard, not the flagship store in Beverly Hills, which is fabulous. But this, they had like on Sweetser in Beverly, I think, they had this gallery that they took over and they were doing like pop-ups. They did a Bowie thing. They did Michael, the shark photographer. Why am I- Muller? Muller.

Oh yeah, he did a thing there. He did a thing. And they did, they did Hockney. I mean, Hockney was amazing there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's, but that's static, you know, this, I would love to see this. Yeah, it's very cool.

And made more kind of cool and interesting because we were staying at my friend Sasha's office flat and he splits time between LA and London. Podcast fans will remember him from the Anvil episode and the episode that I did with him and Jamie Dornan over the movie that he made for HBO, My Dinner with Irvay. Okay. So Sasha, writer, filmmaker.

Right. And also used to live up in this neighborhood in the Hills where Hockney's studio was right across the street. And he developed like a friendship with him and would go have tea with him. So he had all these insights about like, That's cool.

You know, Hockney. Yeah, Hockney's still alive, right? I know, yeah, I mean, he's quite old now, but he's still around. And you know, what I took from that was the purity of how this guy lived his life. Like he, on some level is very simple. Like he's like, I like to make pictures. I like to sketch.

I like to draw. I can just sit in nature and do it. And I've been doing it for 50 years and I still love doing it. Like he's a guy who is authentically who he is, who's pursuing this thing that he loves for the sake of the doing, right? And this amazing career and kind of,

library of work that he's created that the world has fallen in love with is really a byproduct of just continuing to do that thing. And in the most simplistic way is just like, I like this. But there's a profundity in that as well. There's a zen, like a depth to it. It's interesting, like I think, I mean, I'm no art historian, so correct me if I'm wrong,

many people who know more than me, but I'm pretty sure nobody had put swimming pools on canvas in a fine art way before Hockney. I think Hockney was like the first to really pioneer that. I've heard that as well. That might be apocryphal, I'm not sure, but he talks a lot about the swimming pool stuff and how he tried to capture water and how it's always moving.

And every swimming pool that he painted was different. And you know, all of that's cool. Yeah, did that. I happened to be there during the coronation insanity, which was super fun too. Were you there? Well, I mean, it's all going down, you know, at Westminster, right?

So like, no, I watched that on TV with Sasha, who also happens to be a writer on the crown. So he's like- Oh, right? So like, no, I watched that on TV with Sasha who also happens to be a writer on the crown. So he's like, he's got the Royals dialed. So that was fun. The processional between the Westminster Abbey and Buckingham Palace, we didn't go down and stand in the rain to witness that. But I did watch on television as they exited the Abbey

and got into the gold plated horse and buggy carriage contraption. I mean, the whole thing is like so insane. Never been inspired by Prince slash King Charles. It's so strange. Yeah, never been into him. This institution still exists and captures the fascination of the world

at a time when we're seeing just this, you know, increasing gash between the haves and the have-nots and the economic disparity. And yet there is this institution that for some reason continues to inspire a lot of people and serves as this symbol for an empire that doesn't quite exist anymore, but for some reason retains a level of resonance,

which is curious. Yeah, I mean, I think that probably the haves and have nots, they've always been, the King's always been the top of that list. I mean, monarchs, not great. Yeah, no, say what you want though about King Charles, at least he's an environmentalist. That is true.

I mean, he sort of came, he came around the corner with that, right? Yeah, yeah, he's an organic food entrepreneur, I think. And people, yeah, exactly. I had Tim Spector in here, who's a very prominent UK doctor and the guy behind Zoe, which is this sort of microbiome app service.

And he had very nice things to say about the King and his interest in improving health. And so there is that. It's genuine. Yeah, I don't know. So I will say that at one point walking around London, I looked up and I happened to be on Gouge Street. Oh yeah.

And the Gouge tube station was right around the corner. The Gouge tube station. At which point I snapped a picture and texted you and immediately FaceTimed our friend, William Gouge, who was in the midst of his TransCon run from California to New York City. Amazing. In the heartland, in the middle of his trans con run from California to New York City. Amazing. In the heartland, in the middle of the country.

So we should do a Gouge update. Well, where is he right now? Let's look. I think he's in Ohio. Is he in Ohio? We're recording this on Monday. I believe so. I didn't watch the latest vlog.

He's in the final like thousand miles, I think. He's crushing it. He seems to be getting stronger and stronger. And I think his mileage last week was, you know, bigger than ever. He was hitting like 62 mile days. I mean, he's a beast. He looks like an athlete.

He does, yeah. He looks like an athlete. So did we talk about him before? Like he was a former, I don't know if he was professional. I think he might have been. I think we've talked a lot about him. No, but about his- He first came up as the hype beast slash ultra runner. No, I don't know if he was professional. I think he might have been. I think we've talked a lot about him. No, but about his- He first came up as the hype beast slash ultra runner.

No, I know. Fashion model. Yeah, but he is like a former rugby player. He was like a 220 pound rugby player. I didn't know that. And then his mother died from cancer and he went on this run to support cancer and kind of process that loss. Yeah, I knew that part.

I didn't know about the rugby part. And so this whole, all of his running is to raise money, you know, in memory of his mother. Right, and so he's been doing it since then. And, but he's like I said, he was a, he was like a big beast of a, kind of like David in a way, like a beast of a Navy seal guy that became an ultra

and the body's different, but still strong. He's not like a weedy little kind of like endurance guy. Like he is yoked. Yeah, not at all. And that apparently is controversial. I don't know if you watched some of the stories and the other vlog. So there's some haters out there.

I saw that. Because let's face it, William likes his Gucci. He's not afraid to sit for high tea or wear a bathrobe or talk about his skincare regimen. No. And that is not the mold from which the ultra runner emerges. So he's a very different type of person.

And I think there's people out there who don't like that and started to think this guy isn't for real. And all of that hate got directed towards him, which he then channeled and fueled into just upping his mileage every single day. Some dude showed up to try to prove that he was cheating. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, it's one of the episodes

of the Audacious Report docs. I don't know if you've been seeing all the mini docs. They're fantastic. I know, which are filmed, edited, directed by Reese Robinson, our friend, who first came on one of our retreats and ended up doing a bunch of content for us and working on the podcast back in the day.

He's fantastically talented. Yeah, and Robbie, who's like the crew chief. He looks great on the, he's a great character. His mustache is world-class. It's awesome, dude. And he sent me a text the other day from like the world's largest gift shop or something. Like things you find on Route 66.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, but they've been, you know, it's been great to see, love the Audacious support. And I'm thinking about getting NuCom. They're really selling me on this NuCom. Yeah, it's been great to see, love the Audacious support. And I'm thinking about getting NuCom. They're really selling me on this NuCom. Yeah, it's working. It seems to be working. Well, I like how William posts his NuCom update,

like how much he slept and then his, it's all about like that restorative, regenerative nap time where that technology and protocol will drop you into this restorative state. And in a very brief period of time, kind of allow you to bounce back and Robbie swears by it. And obviously, it's working for William and they're a sponsor of that feat.

So that's cool. I'm excited to see it all happen. Are you thinking about, you were at the starting line, you think about going to New York for the finish? It depends. When is the, what's the anticipated date? They were gonna do it in less than 62 days from the start date.

But at this point, I think they're gotta be under 60. Like they're shaving days off. Yeah, I'd like to. I mean, obviously I'm not running right now, but I'm gonna look into that. It would be cool to be there. Yeah, yeah, it would be really cool. Casey Neistat was at Hella's.

That's right. I think Hella this week is coming up on, is it his six year anniversary of the run streak? He's doing a group run in New York City to celebrate. He is, okay. Yeah, I don't know what day it is exactly, but you know, that's pretty cool. Like 6,000 days or something.

Or something like that. There was a six involved and it was big. That's all I know. Right? While I was in London, I also did a couple media appearances. I guessed it on this podcast called Diary of a CEO, which is a pretty big show in the UK

and growing really quickly all over the world. I think it's like third or second biggest show in the UK. Hosted by this guy, Steven Bartlett, who's a bit of a UK celebrity entrepreneur turned podcaster who became well known as the youngest guest judge on Dragon's Den, which is their version of Shark Tank. Okay. And it was a real honor to do his show.

Like I think what he's doing is interesting. He's super pro, great interviewer. So that's coming out soon. Is it kind of like a how I built this type of pod? No, it's more directed than that. It's really not. I mean, I think it started as a business type podcast. How did you become successful?

But now it's gotten so big that he has all different kinds of people on. But he's very good at asking questions and kind of getting beneath the beneath. And he invited Jai and I to join him for the Manchester United West Ham game, which was super fun. I had never been to a Premier League football match before.

So I went in knowing absolutely nothing, like a complete dullard, you know. For the experience, Stephen was very patient with my ignorance, you know, around this game that everybody else in the world is a fan of and knows about. We're like, why don't they pick up the ball, Stephen? Yeah, I did have some questions.

What is the pitch? No one's pitching it. Yeah, but that was really an incredible treat and shocking at how little I know about that sport, but sort of like F1 or like anything really, the more you learn about something, the more kind of invested you become in following it. And I started to fall in love.

And it's like the beautiful game, but it's also like worldly, it's spread so far and wide because it's actually pretty simple. You know, you kick the ball over there. Right, you can know nothing and follow it, right? And then it gets complex from there, basically. And I also did Chris Evans' breakfast show

on Virgin UK radio. For those that, if you know, you know, Chris is a legend, broadcasting legend. Anybody in the UK knows who he is. He hosts this gigantic morning radio show to a massive audience every weekday morning. For those that don't know, he's just a quality guy, like so positive and optimistic and enthusiastic

and is also a fan of the podcast. Like he is always talking about the show. In fact, I think he did today. He was talking about Neil Pasariccia, our latest guest on the show this morning. And because of his enthusiasm for the RRP, we ended up like doing better in the UK than we do in the US.

Really? Solely because of his kind of free promotion, which is very kind and generous of him. He's our secret marketing weapon, deploying positive awareness across the British empire. He's amazing, man. And a big runner and just, you know, all the good stuff. Not just him, but a lot of his crew are marathoners now, right?

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Because of your show. Like he's, you know, a bunch of people who work for him, producer, et cetera, are all running marathons. And his like right-hand guy is getting ready to do Western States. Like, is that right? He got in the lottery and he'd run UTMB.

So I got to meet, you know, some of his staff. And I had met Chris once prior, but I'd never done a show before. So that was really fun. It did not disappoint. We had a really good time doing it. But the main thing and the reason primarily I'm bringing it up is that not only is Chris,

you know, a big podcast fan of this podcast, he is the number one roll-on fan. He just might be king of the Skolnicks. He loves you so much, Adam. That's very kind. Basically 75% of our 20 minutes on air was devoted to the adoration of Adam. So I sent it to you.

I was like, I don't know how you feeling today, but if you need a little boost, like maybe check out, you know, Chris and I on the radio this morning. No, thank you. I did listen to the interview, loved it. I mean, he's so high energy and so positive. It's like, you know, someone had called in on,

we didn't include the question in this show, but it was like, you know, how come there's not more good news people out there spreading the good energy and all of that? And he is one of those people in media at a real high level that does it. And it's really cool to hear that he's responded. I did hear it. He's also not only the number one Roland fan, he's head of the faction that wants to go back to strictly the OG format. When I say roll-on, I mean old school.

Yeah, yeah. He didn't have a lot to say about the docu-series, but he did wanna talk about streaming choices and like all the knucklehead stuff that we do. And look, he knows from whence he comes. Like this is a guy who's been around for a very long time. And he told me like, Roland is great, rapport is really hard and rare

and you guys have it. And there's something really fun and unique about that. Don't overthink it, like just keep doing that thing. And that was encouraging to hear. It was encouraging. It's cool, it's really cool to hear that thing. And, you know, that was encouraging to hear. It was encouraging. It was, it's cool. It's really cool to hear that, that, that plays. And, and cause he used an example of, he had a music show and he'd have like the best bands in the world on there, like the biggest acts in the world, you too, whoever. And they would have this chit chat interview that was that kind of off the

cuff. And then they'd cut to the band playing a song, like a live rendition and people would turn the channel. Like it was the off the cuff impromptu stuff that you didn't know it was gonna happen. They interest people more than going to something that seems overly produced or something more familiar. Right, the prologue that you think is sort of fluff and not that important becomes the thing, ironically,

that the people are tuning in for rather than the main act. Exactly. I think we do have some subjects lined up to continue to explore, but maybe we do it in some illuser format like we're doing now. We'll see.

But I will say that Chris is a big fan of streaming wrecks. He told me, he's like, we all here, ended up watching White Lotus because you guys talked about it. I was like, you had to hear about White Lotus from us? It's surprising, but you don't know what really transfers, right? Like what, they have so many shows

that are huge hits that we never see and it must be both ways, right? Right, right, right. Anyway, it was a total joy and honor to do Chris's show. I have so much respect and admiration for him. And we love you, Chris. Thank you so much. I mean, he has been so gracious and generous

with his support for this show. It's just, you know, it's extraordinary. So Chris, I know you're listening. He's listening right now. He's listening right this second. Chris, man, hey, thank you so much for the support, for listening, for talking about the show, advocating for the show and for Roll On.

It's really cool to, I appreciate all of Rich's listeners. It's very cool to hear that you're listening and for the advice and for the love, just the idea that there's positive kind of media happening at a really high level is super cool. Yeah, absolutely. All of which brings us to our hotly anticipated

media diet recipes, which are coming right up on the heels of our discussion about White Lotus. But first let's hear from a couple of the sponsors that helped make this show possible. Media diet, the people have asked for it and we deliver what the people want. Adam, what's in your queue? Lakers, Lakers and more Lakers.

I'm blinded by the purple and gold over here with the wardrobe change. Speaking of LA, Wash Beef, a very LA slash. Yeah, that's a wild. K-town meets Calabasas. Chaotic ride with a standout turn by our friend, David Cho, who came in here recently. We haven't published that episode yet,

but I did round two with him. Who saw that coming? Who saw him as like a great actor coming? Yeah, he really acquitted himself quite well. Going toe to toe with Steve Yuen and Ali Wong. I mean, Steve Yuen we know is spectacular. I don't know if you saw the, what's the Oscar nominated one? I forget, but the, what's the Oscar, the Oscar nominated one.

I forget, but yeah, he has an Oscar nomination. Yeah, yeah. And then that's a great movie, takes place in 80s in Arkansas. And he like to compare that character to like what he played in Beef. And then Ali Wong, I mean, she is incredible. What an incredible artist.

Yeah, it's a superstar turn for her. And it was just fresh in its chaos. And then enter David Cho and it's like just, I know a whole new level of chaos, like an unpredictability. We talk about it a lot. I don't wanna spoil that conversation, but it's pretty special. And what's funny about watching Beef is,

I know all those locations. It's filmed all around this area here. Like I know that house. Like I know exactly where that house is where Ali Wong lived. And LA too, right? So it's both, right? It's kind of going back and forth.

Yeah, it obviously has a lot to say about class in that regard as well. Super, super fun. I found it to be the freshest thing I've seen since the first season of Atlanta. It reminds me of the first season of Atlanta and it's kind of, you know, not exactly the same tone. Atlanta is more of a straight up comedy, I think,

although this is very funny, but at least the first season of Atlanta was, but similar kind of like offbeat, you know, abstract kind of. Sure. Yeah. Everyone is terrible in this show, right? That's the difference.

Atlanta, you have people to root for. This show, there's no one to root for. Speaking of a show where everybody is terrible. Yes. There's a little show on HBO. You might've heard of it. A little baby show called Success. Success, Succession.

Yeah, I've been watching Succession. I mean, not exactly a hot take to say like Succession is in your queue, but that show is just on a whole other level. Yeah, yeah, yeah. From anything else out there. I don't wanna, I don't know how much spoiler we wanna get into, but this season there was a noticeable departure

and I've been kind of like off this season a little bit more than on than I have been in the past, but the election night was sublime. I mean, that was an exquisite, yeah. Just unbelievably well-considered piece of television. Amazing. It was an art form in and of itself.

I agree. Created by a bunch of Brits to tell the most American story with a level of incisiveness that I haven't seen. I mean, it's so reminiscent of the 2016 election. It is. And done with satire, but also with a heaviness to it that distinguished that episode from many of the others.

Like I'm all in on this season and it's just been riveting for me to watch. You're all in on the current drama as to where it's going. It's interesting. Roman is making his power move. I mean, he's gone full Darth Vader. He's going full. We don't wanna spoil anything.

If people are behind, it's dark. It's getting really dark. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As Jeremy Strong, who plays Kendall Roy, has said, it's Richard III, which if you know that play, you have a good sense of where the chips may fall at the end. Right. But we shall see.

Two more episodes left. All I know is Kendall won't win. Well, even if he wins, he doesn't win. He loses. That's the thing. Right. Nobody's winning. No. This, you know, and it's not a mystery. It's not a he doesn't win. He loses. That's the thing. Nobody's winning this. And it's not a mystery. It's not a mystery box show either.

It's not about like some big reveal. I think it's just gonna be a situation in which nobody wins and the earth is scorched and the rich people sort of ride off into the sunset without repercussions for their behavior. It's gonna have a kind of very grim, dire, sort of thing to say about- But that's always there, right?

Like the fact is that that's part of why the characters are not ultimately likable. Although you feel yourself feeling for them, but they're not likable because the stakes are, like in terms of their lifestyle, nothing will change. Their lives will be at a certain level no matter what. When Roman says like, it doesn't matter. Right.

Like nothing matters. That's why power is the currency that matters because everything else is already done. Yeah. It's already taken care of. Anyway, yeah, I don't wanna spoil too much more, but I found it to be just on a whole other level. Yeah, those are the two shows I've watched,

but it sounds like you've watched a lot of stuff. I have. Let's see, it's been so long since we've done this. I guess the first thing, because it's top of mind that I would wanna make sure that everybody is seen is All Quiet on the Western Front. There's obviously nothing new on this recommendation. It got a ton of BAFTAs and Oscars.

I might've even previously mentioned it on the show. Obviously also based on the classic 1929 novel about World War I told from the point of view, not of the victor, but of a young German soldier at the very end of that devastating conflict. And this movie was a bit of a sleeper. I was a late comer to it, but when I watched it,

I was just absolutely riveted by its exquisiteness, it's haunting, it's horrifying, it's beautiful. And it's got this aftertaste that really lives with you, that sticks with you. And the reason I'm bringing it up now is because yesterday I had Leslie Patterson on the podcast, who is the film's Oscar nominated screenwriter. Oh, how cool.

Which in and of itself is amazing and worthy of an appearance on the podcast. But her story is just gonna absolutely melt your brain when that show comes out. In addition to winning the BAFTA and being nominated for an Oscar for her script and all kinds of other accolades, she's also a five-time world champion in triathlon,

in XTERRA and she won three XTERRA World Championships, but not in her past life before getting into filmmaking during her screenwriting journey to get the film made. So as this nobody in the business with no credits, she optioned the book in 2006. Who would even think that you could option that book? Right, well, she didn't. She thought some studio would have it tied up.

And I think it was Paramount. I can't remember which studio had let an option lapse and it went to the estate. And she was able to negotiate with the estate and option it. And then she spent 16 years trying to get this film made. So every 12 to 18 months, she would have to renew the option

which was somewhere between 10 to 15 grand each time. And her way of doing that was to be a professional triathlete win races and then use the prize money to renew the option which she did for many years. She went out of pocket over that period of time, over 200 grand to keep this thing alive. I think they mortgaged their house to keep it going. Talk about belief.

And it's not like, oh, she's an athlete and a writer. Like this was a person who in 2011 at the Maui XTERRA World Championships, she flatted on the bike, fell way behind, and then ran so fast in the run leg that her split was exactly the same as Michael Weiss, who won the men's race, and 10 minutes faster than Lance Armstrong.

Like she's an absolute baller. And then in 2016, she had this protracted battle with Lyme disease that had her like bedridden forever. And it took her years to kind of crawl out of that. Finally starts to feel like she's starting to come back together. And she enters this race, not because she's super fit. She's only just starting to dip her toe

back into being an athlete, but because the options about the laps and they have no money. And she doesn't know how she's going to pay for this thing, but she just can't let the book go. Like she's obsessed with getting this movie made. So she goes to this XTERRA race in Costa Rica and the day before the race X Xterra off-road,

I can't remember which one, she does what you do, which is you recon the course. Like you get out on your mountain bike and you ride around it. So you have a feel for what's happening. And she crashes and she breaks her shoulder, breaks her shoulder, no way she can race. Her husband convinces her,

well, why don't you just try to race anyway? Like you're pretty good with the one arm drill. And she's like, fine, you know, I guess I could swim out, you know, 50 meters. And if it's bad, like I'll just stop, right? We're here. So she does that, gets through the swim, comes out, I don't know, last out of the water, gets on her bike

and rides through the entire field into second place and then outpaces everyone on the run and like wins the freaking race and wins the prize money. And just in time, like is able to renew the option. Holy fuck. And then over the years of development hell with producers who go to jail and this person attached and that person attached,

the universe finally conspired to make this dream happen. She's the director and writer? No, just the writer. She's a screenwriter. Yeah, she's a screenwriter. It's a great, I mean, I've given you the highlights, but that's an incredible podcast that's coming up at some point.

So anyway, in preparation for that podcast, if you have not seen All Quiet on the Western Front, I strongly suggest you check it out. That sounds like there should be a hearts of darkness type documentary about that movie. You know what I mean? Well, it's a biopic in its own right. So like her life story is insane.

She played rugby when she was seven years old in Scotland and played with the boys. And like, there's all these episodes in her bio and over the years that, I mean, she's remarkable. So- How cool. Very cool. The AI episode, remember when we did that, Adam? The AI episode today, Sam Altman of OpenAI

was getting in the Senate, getting grilled. Right. He's getting grilled on possible regulation. That was inevitable. Right. Yeah. Well, that's a case of the tech Titan realizing that he has to appear friendly to regulators, to sort of say, we need regulation, we want regulation. Yeah, this is the friendly one.

Not really, like what is the succession season about like going in before Congress and talking about regulation? It's sort of like, yeah, you know, going in before Congress and talking about regulation. It's sort of like, yeah, like what would cousin Greg say? Well, we kind of like regulation. Do we like it? I would love to see cousin Greg getting in those hearings. We like regulation, right?

Oh, we don't like it? We saw Tom in the hearings, right? Tom was in the hearings. Tom would be the guy. Yeah, that's right. Tom was in the hearings. Tom was in the hearings. That's right. I forgot about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then these sort of elected official bureaucrats who are trying to wrap their heads around AI, like it's hard to imagine. The complexity of this is so intense. Like how do you, how does someone who's not fully immersed in this world understand the best way to regulate it? I don't know.

We did a whole episode and it was kind of trying. We thought we were behind when the episode came out. Turns out we were way ahead. Like since the episode came out, we called out there's gonna be an AI written screenplay. South Park dropped their episode. We called out there's gonna be AI written novels.

They're all over the place. You know, like it's happening. We're using so many AI tools here in our workflow now. It's insane, but it's creating unreal efficiencies. So we can do more of the cool creative stuff. I am AI right now. This isn't even Adam. Of course.

This is an AI in a Laker sweater. I'm having a light bulb moment. But I bring up AI because there's a couple interesting AI themed series out there right now that I've enjoyed. The first one is Rabbit Hole with Kiefer Sutherland, which is kind of a taught fun thriller in the style of 24, where he plays a guy who is hired by corporations to do corporate espionage, you know?

And then all of this sort of intrigue happens as a result of these, of an AI related kind of situation, which makes it fun. But it's fluffy network television, but it was a fun watch. And then there's this show called Mrs. Davis. Have you seen this show? I have not. This show, which is on Peacock,

the streaming service Peacock, was created by one of my favorite writers in Hollywood, Damon Lindelof, who is the genius master storyteller, also a dream podcast guest. He did great, I would love to get him. Behind, first, he's known best for Lost. And then was on the receiving end of so much criticism on Twitter

as a result of the way that Lost ended, that he quit Twitter to spare his mental health. But he went on to create The Leftovers on HBO. He is the genius behind Watchmen on HBO, which is an extraordinary limited series, which everyone should watch. And he wrote Prometheus, which I think is a highly underrated and misunderstood exploration

of the origin of mankind that's set in the extended alien universe. Did you see Prometheus? No. Yeah, it Prometheus? No. Yeah, it's a very cool movie. And he did a Twitter, he was doing a Twitter novel or something during- He did that, yeah, I remember that.

He came back to Twitter and did it during the- Did he do that on Twitter? I remember something about that. Oh, no, no. It was before the pandemic. It was part of Next Draft newsletter, you know that newsletter Next Draft? And he was writing,

I believe he was writing a serial novel. Oh, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. He recently ankled, as they say in Hollywood, a new Star Wars project. So he's- What's ankled? Ankled. What's that mean?

You don't know that? No. Do you live in Los Angeles? Let's go Lake- Do you even variety or Hollywood reporter, Adam? No, but I listen. That's sort of like the parlance of the trade rags where they're like when an executive leaves one studio and goes to another,

they say they ankled Sony for DreamWorks. Oh. You never heard that? Never heard it. Yeah, that's insider talk. You're an insider. Hollywood bit of an insider. Anyway, but. I is bit of an insider. Anyway, but-

You're an outsider, baby. Anyway, so Damon has co-created this new series called Mrs. Davis. Okay. That he co-created with this veteran TV writer called Tara Hernandez. And she's really the one who's running the show. He's more in the background, but his fingerprints are all over this thing

because if Damon is anything, he's somebody who knows how to create really compelling, unique stories that just defy your expectations and always take you places you never expected to go. I don't wanna give out spoilers for this show, other than to say it's kind of a heightened semi comedic sci-fi series, where a nun uses her faith to essentially wage war

on an all powerful super AI that everybody else is in love with. So if you think of it as this kind of like the most advanced algorithmic her, you know, the movie her in the form of this like ear pod that everybody has in their ear where they're in constant communication with this super consciousness,

it's sort of like if chat GPT became a religion and this AI that's called Mrs. Davis sends this nun on a mission to find the Holy Grail. And then it just goes like bananas from there. So sexy nun on a mission to find the Holy Grail and to destroy AI. Yeah, yeah. I'm in.

I mean, come on, right? I'm in. This nun who's trying to destroy the all powerful AI. And that's not even the crazy part. Everything that Damon has ever done is just super unique and fresh and unexpected and unpredictable and wildly entertaining. But also, and this show certainly does that,

manages to grapple with big questions in this show in a really fun way, not in your face, but kind of operating in the backdrop is, these sort of big questions around existence and what is God and the singularity and stuff like that, which makes it pretty fun. So anyway, I would check that one out. Okay.

Those are my big ones. You know, I'm a sucker, as I've said before, by anything CIA, Mossad, MI5, MI6. So I rushed through Slow Horses while I was in London. I figured I'd go deep Brit while I was there. And I really enjoyed that, which is on Apple plus, I think. So you're just knocking out episodes before bed usually.

In the tent, on the plane. Yeah, I have a lot of plane time. So I fired up a lot of this flying around. And let's face it, Jack Ryan is returning June 30th on Amazon, pure dad core. Like just- You should be able to get him on. Bring it on.

Can't you go through- That guy's A-list. Sol Bloom. Can't you get to Krasinski through- I can't ask Rain for that. You can't ask Rain? No. They're still in touch, right?

You'd be great. Remember when Kaczynski during the pandemic did that good news YouTube show? He should have kept doing that. I think he sold the rights or something like that. And then I don't know what happened. They were gonna make- It just disappeared. Yeah, nothing ever happened.

No. But that was pretty cool. I mean, that was an incredible example of right place, right time, right guy. And everybody just wanting something to feel good. That was pretty cool. I mean, that was an incredible example of right place, right time, right guy, and everybody just wanting something to feel good. Well, also because he went, he made this conscious decision to do action stuff

and he was smart. He was making, and it's probably what he loved to make and wanted to make, and he got buff and all that. But like the good news was back to Jim almost. It was like, if Jim was doing it from, you know what I mean? It was almost like more Jim. Right, like if Jim was doing it from, you know what I mean? It was almost like more Jim. Right, there's just the wholesomeness of it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, which was cool. So those are my picks for now. I mean, I had a few other things here. I mean, on the podcast front, there were a couple interesting things that I stumbled across.

I think I mentioned this podcast series called The New Gurus. Did I talk about that with you before? This woman, Helen Lewis. You have mentioned it to me. Who writes for the Atlantic, did a series, a podcast series on the kind of guru sphere, particularly in the content YouTube podcast space.

She recently released this bonus episode on the manosphere, which I thought was super interesting. Like the influence of male podcasters on young men that I thought was fascinating and is- For the better and worse, I guess. Yeah, right, right, right. And Rick Rubin launched his podcast, Tetragrammaton. Have you listened to any of those episodes yet?

No, I have not. Do you know what that word means? I had to look it up. No. Is the Hebrew name for God translated in four letters? I thought it was Adonai. R-I-C-K, Rick. Adonai is God. No, I'm just kidding.

No, like Yahweh without the vowels. Okay. Right. Okay. Anyway, it's pretty cool. He's doing something really unique and original in the long conversation space. Okay. He had Alejandro Enrito.

I know I'm mispronouncing his last name, the director behind Birdman and Babel. He had Phil Jackson on. You're gonna wanna tune into that one. Love Phil Jackson. It's cool, so I would check that out as well. And that's it. This concludes the media diet.

You know what? You're a good person to do the media. I've always been like, can I say, I've always been an advocate of the media diet. You've always kind of shied away. You're like, who cares what I watch? People care. I get good recs from you.

Given the kind of themes and context of this podcast, you would think I'm gonna say, here's a documentary and here's this really philosophical deep piece that's gonna change your life. And I'm kind of just sharing entertainment and fluff, which feels a little bit orthogonal to the recurring themes and focus of the show. So it feels indulgent, but it's okay to have fun too. a little bit orthogonal to the recurring themes and focus of the show. So it feels indulgent, but it's okay to have fun too.

But it also shows the art side, it shows your kind of why you are attracted to the entertainment business as a lawyer, because you love film and it shows that you- And we do have a listener question, I think it's the last one that we're gonna answer where I'm being asked for stories from that period of my life, of which I have many.

So if you're interested in that stuff, stick around to the end. Meanwhile, I watch sports and I'm still watching Apocalypse Now. I started it three weeks ago and then I'm watching it in like 10. This is what happens when you have a young, when a toddler, it's like-

You have plenty of time to go to Lakers and Dodgers games and watch sports for like hours and hours a day, but apocalypse now takes you a week to get through. A week? Yeah, that's a good week. You have a small child. It's understandable. Exactly.

My kids are grown. You got time. You're in the tent. You're like, I'm gonna knock out five spy shows. No. Anyway, what do we got next? Are we gonna go right into the AMA? We are, but first, a wardrobe change.

Okay. We got some questions? We do. We're starting with Sam from Fort Wayne, Indiana. Hi, my name is Sam from Fort Wayne, Indiana. And I was calling for some tips on fatherhood. I am expecting my first child in about a month and I'm really excited and really nervous and I really respect both of your guys' opinions and would love any tips or advice on becoming a dad? Great question, Sam. Thank you for that.

Adam, you're not only a new dad, I think you're a parenting guru. You're a self-help guru. You have some parenting advice. It's been 15 years since I had an infant. Calling me a parenting guru is a bit of a stretch. Step up and own your space, Adam. What is the advice you have for Sam? I will say this as an older dad, I was 48 when Zuma was born. I have a natural inclination to what I'm about to say, but because being an older dad, there's certain advantages.

There's disadvantages, of course, physically and otherwise. But one advantage is, you know, when you have the baby and you go through that process and labor and your wife does it and you're there, the excitement is just everywhere. You know, you feel the excitement, you feel it from other people, your neighbors, your family, your friends, having the baby, this new life in your hands. It's exciting and dizzying. But that fades. And I think what any new parent needs to do is accept more than the

excitement, more than embracing excitement, because the excitement is going to happen. Really the next stage is complete acceptance. Accept this new phase you are in. Do not compare it to anything that came before. Do not compare it to your other friends that are in different seasons of their lives. Accept exactly where you are and what your new role is. And you'll have a much easier time staying in the moment. As an older dad, that came easy to me since I had basically a full adult life, not being a parent. I didn't have this, any sort of FOMO whatsoever.

It was easy for me to not give a shit about anything else and just kind of really click in. But I do notice younger parents that isn't more of an issue. And it's, of course, it's like human nature. So I sent, I don't know how old Sam is, but that's a piece of advice I give myself even, right? So this is not just me talking to you, it's me talking to me.

Also exercise, grab what you can. You gotta stay fit. You gotta do that from the outset. You don't wanna try to catch up like six months later. So catch, you know, 30 minutes is all you got. Go get a 30 minute, you know, take them on, take as soon as the baby can, go outside, go on long walks, go on walks with your family. And then when you can start to run

or do what you have to do to stay fit, change as many diapers as you can early on. Just be there, be there for your partner, be kind to her, be kind to yourself, be kind to the baby. You'll go far and say no to the snoo, no to the snoo. What is the snoo? The snoo's bar?

No, the snoo is this bassinet contraption that you kind of, you swaddle the baby and you strap them down and it like rocks them back to sleep. So you don't have, it's to get babies to sleep through the night and it's supposedly like a sleep training without the mean kind of cold shoulder aspect to it. And Zuma was a great sleeper up to four months and he got too big for the SNU and supposed to be six months.

So we didn't have a chance to like do what they say to kind of phase it out. But in really in retrospect, it's kind of a crutch and it doesn't really help. Like once you take the SNU out of, you're starting at zero. So we had, we thought we were getting, you know, we had whole nights with Zuba, four months.

And then this first sleep aggression happened, took him out of the snoo and it's like, it was like bananas. That's interesting. We had, well, first of all, that's great advice. Thank you. You are a self-help guru. You wrote on the outline,

acceptance is your golden chalice. Yes. And then you didn't actually say that out loud. And I'm thinking, this is the title of your parenting bookalice. Yes. And then you didn't actually say that out loud. And I'm thinking this is the title of your parenting book, Adam. Acceptance is your golden chalice. Are you fucking kidding me? Excitement is at your fingertips,

but acceptance is your golden chalice. Only a guru would come up with that phrase. When I speak about, when I give advice to people, I try to just make sure my fingertips are connecting in a certain manner. So I really look like I've thought this through. Yeah. Projecting confidence, presence, calm.

Yeah, when I'm 98 and I finally get my Ted talk, it's gonna be full fingertips connecting the whole time. Okay, good. Although I do take issue with this new thing. I would say it was a lifesaver for us to have, we didn't call it a snoo, but it was like this hammock thing and we hung it from the ceiling and it had a little bit of a spring in the cord, right?

An analog snoo. And it was right next to Julie's side of the bed. And so if the baby started crying, we could put the baby in the hammock, in the sling. And the movement of the baby gently, you know, makes the thing bounce a little bit and puts him back to sleep. And that was a lifesaver.

So I tell all young parents that they should invest in that. Now you had a transition like kerfuffle, but like if you had figured out how to segue out of that, that was very helpful actually for those middle of the night situations. Yes, but that seems gentle compared to what the snoo does, which is like- See, this is a different thing.

This is like a sling that hangs and it was beautiful, like organic cotton. I don't remember the model of it, but I'm sure people can find it. But yeah, acceptance, that's huge. I agree with that. Not comparing it to anything that came before is super important.

I agree with that completely. I think it's very easy for a young father, young parent to project or develop an attachment or an expectation of what it's gonna be like, because we've been imagining it for so long and we've seen it portrayed not only in friends and family, but on television and in movies. And we think we're supposed to have a certain type

of response when the baby comes. And we think about sort of modeling ourselves after what we've seen out in the world. And I think everybody is different. There's this narrative, it's love at first sight. You see the baby and your life changes in a moment and it's never the same. And that's true for some people, but that's not at first sight. You see the baby and your life changes in a moment and it's never the same. And that's true for some people,

but that's not true for everybody. And I know lots of young fathers who actually had to play a little bit of catch up with that where they couldn't connect immediately because there's no personality yet. There's no, like, you know, it's hard to, you know, yes, this is your child, but the development of the emotional bond

for a lot of people is something that just only emerges over a more extended period of time. So, because I've heard that story so many times, like I always wanna let people know, like you shouldn't, if you're not feeling the way that you think you're supposed to be feeling, like everything is okay with that. And to kind of let that go and forget about that projection

or that ideal and to be in acceptance. It's really about like showing up and being flexible and being kind, right? And you're just like, if you're in a disposition where you're just waiting for things to calm down or when is it gonna be like kind of normalized, like you're gonna drive yourself crazy. So just being cool with the flow

of obstacles coming up constantly and you not getting your way and things not kind of going the way that you would like in order for you to be rested for your job or whatever it is, like it's just not gonna go that way. And you can either get on board with that or you can resist it, but that resistance is only gonna create

more suffering for yourself. So, I think that's a big thing and you're gonna be sleep deprived. So your coping mechanisms are gonna be compromised, but they're not going to be in the type of deficit that your partner is experiencing. And so, you gotta be really conscious of like not like being this, you know,

like I need that being self is like, they're enduring a hundred times more than whatever you're experiencing. So shut your mouth, suck it up and like be cool. Especially, you know, when you come, I don't know if you're having a hospital or whatever, we did it in the hospital and came home and you know, they've gone through a car crash.

So, you know, especially those first days, you gotta be on point. You got, I mean, you have to be on point anytime, but that first day home, you better be on point. Cause you're gonna be the primary caregiver. Yeah, so prepare for that now. What is that gonna look like? How can you be best prepared to do that?

How can you anticipate needs? I think is a really big one. And forgetting about whatever your old routine was, cause that's gone. So judging yourself against your ability to adhere to the way you used to kind of navigate your day is a losing battle. So just try to create a reasonable,

sustainable framework going forward and just being in the flow. I think also a huge thing is learning how to anticipate the needs, like I said, of your partner. Like if you can read your partner's mind, it would be helpful to get Ozen here to teach us how to be mentalists for our partners.

So you can get ahead of that. He would tell you, it doesn't work. He doesn't, it doesn't help him. He can't do it, it doesn't work with his wife. It does not help him. Yeah, and just always being mindful of what your partner needs and being in that space of service, I think is huge.

And yeah, you're gonna have to find moments where you need to take care of yourself, but whatever those moments are, be sure that your partner is getting more of those than you are. Like whatever you can do, whatever you can afford to make sure that your partner is getting self-care.

Like if you can afford the occasional night nurse or you can like, then you should do that. But if you can't, then, you know, finding other ways to provide breaks, I think for her is super important. And then the other thing I would say is, as somebody whose kids are older now, it's just so fast. And I know that's a tired, you know, trope or cliche,

but it really is true. It's insane how quickly it's going. They're cliches for a reason. Like Mathis is traveling Europe right now with her boyfriend and is going to college next year. And it's like yesterday she was a baby and I shared a picture on Instagram for Mother's Day of Julie pregnant with Mathis in her belly.

And it just doesn't feel like that long ago. You guys look like kids. And when they're babies, the phases come and go so quickly as you know, right? So learning how to really be present for all of those phases, I think will enhance your joy through the experience. But it sounds like you're excited about it.

And so, you know, you're already in the right- Having another baby? Oh, you're talking to him. Yeah, Sam. It sounds like Sam is excited. Yeah, I mean, the fact that he's even asking the question, he's miles ahead of most impending deaths. When I start to feel like,

am I really living up to my potential as a parent? And I call friends or I share that, they're like, well, the fact that you're thinking about it and you're processing it and you're seeking advice on this already means that you're processing it and you're seeking advice on this already means that you're, you know, trying to navigate this with more conscientiousness than most people. So that's good.

I don't know, Kendall asked, was talking, asking aloud about it. You know, I'm not sure I'm a great dad. And in his case, he's right. He wanted Shiv to let him off the hook there so badly. In his case, he's right. Not so much. He's a shitty dad.

Anyway, cool. Let's go to the next one. All right. We're going to Boston. Hi, my name is Karen. I live in Boston. And the question I have is about, this is really a big, broad question. It's about your dreams, not the dreams you have when you're asleep, but your goal in life, what you want to achieve in your life.

The situation that I have or that I'm in is that I have this vision for who I want to be in the world. And that's really reflected through the work that I do. I work for myself and I have a very specific niche that I help in a specific way that I do it. And I absolutely know that I'm in my zone of genius and my zone of dharma when I do that work. However, it's not ramping up at a rate that allows me to support myself.

And this is one of the pieces of it that I really want to get in place. And I keep telling myself, because I'm in my dharma, it's going to happen. But I guess my question is, how long do you try to make something work when you know in your heart it's what you're destined to do? Like the Mark Twain quote that Rich just had on his podcast. Like, I know it's what I'm destined to do. However, I have yet to see the 3D results that allows me to have a sustainable business

and support myself. So that's my question. I hope it's clear. And any inspiration you can provide, I would love. Namaste. You're already doing the thing. And as someone who had a goal, like a life goal to become a writer and it wasn't always working at first. And the definition to me was being a professional. I understand the impulse to think about the money.

And if the money isn't what you want it to be or to be sustainable as a career on its own, you feel like you're not doing it. You feel like you're actually not there. But in reality, you are already there because you know what you want to do and you're doing it already and you're doing it at a high level. And so you are there. The business side is an altogether different question. It's not the same question as, you've already solved the real riddle people are trying to figure out, which is what, what do I want to do? Who, who am I? The business side is just something

specific. It's like, um, and that is a riddle that there's, there's people out there that can help you solve. I don't know what your business is, but, um, just because you're not making a living at something does not mean that thing is not worth orienting your life around. It doesn't mean that it's not worth doing. It doesn't. So you gotta be careful not to fall in the trap of, because I'm not making a living at it, I'm not doing it.

Cause that's not true. And if, you know, a good recommendation, Liz Gilbert talks about this dynamic in Big Magic a lot. It's just something that she talks. It's kind of on the side, but that's a good reference point for this, that book, Big Magic. And just talking about like,

it's not necessarily your plan that it's not supposed to unfold in a way that you've already envisioned. It doesn't have to, it can unfold in its own way. And it sounds like you're doing it already. So that's my main point is just don't lose sight of that. Adam, I'm sitting here thinking about how Helen Lewis is gonna have to do another bonus episode of the new gurus

featuring Adam Skolnick's life advice because you're so good at this. It's another- Book two. Another, no more flippant- Pursuing your Dharma by Adam Skolnick. Dime store Dharma wisdom from Adam Skolnick. That's pretty good.

I mean, my take is, you know is no different than what you had to say. I mean, first of all, yes. Congratulations, Karen, on not only knowing what your dream is, but being extremely clear on that fact and not only pursuing it, but actually living it, but not recognizing it as the gift that it is. I mean, it's pretty rare that people kind of stumble upon

what it is that they wanna do, pursue it, and really live it on a day-to-day basis. So I would acknowledge yourself for that. That's a gift that many would kill for and immediately puts you in a very privileged place. So I think connecting with that might provide a little bit of gratitude for where you're at right now,

instead of criticizing yourself or wondering why it's not generating revenue. Instead, shift the lens a bit, one away from lack and guilt, because your Dharma doesn't also happen to be a revenue generator, and turn it on that gratitude piece, because you're doing something that's providing you with purpose and happiness and meaning.

The second thing I would say, which is in total agreement with Adam, 100%, is that you're doing the thing and that you shouldn't confuse the thing that brings you joy and makes you feel alive and gives you a sense of purpose and provides meaning and purpose and fulfillment with the thing that pays the bills.

Because I think it's a fallacy and an illusion that these things can, or should be even the thing from which you derive money, let alone make a living. But in our culture, what we do, how we make a living is how we craft our identity, right? So if your thing that you're really passionate about isn't the thing that is your job or your vocation,

then somehow it holds lesser sway in how you construct the narrative around your identity. So I think, you know, just kind of understanding how you can decouple those two things might give you a little bit of comfort and space. And what else do I wanna say? I mean, if these two worlds happen to line up, like your passion and the thing that produces finances,

economics and ethosonomics or whatever you wanna call it, then that's great and you're lucky, but it's hard to say if this is or isn't a possibility in your case, because we actually don't know the details of the thing that you're doing. But the important piece is that it doesn't have to be that way, it rarely is.

And in many, perhaps most cases, maybe it shouldn't be. Because once you introduce economics into that thing that gives you like sustenance, it has a tendency to corrupt the thing, to corrupt the, to kind of degrade the purity of it. And over time can suck the joy out of it altogether. Like you see this even in like pick any professional athlete who's been around in their sport for too long.

Like that thing that they love doing as a kid is now, you know, this massive revenue generator and it's not fun anymore. It's like a whole different relationship with that thing. So there's gifts in that thing not being the thing from which you're, you know, extracting resources. But the question was how long do you keep doing it? Right.

If it's not kind of headed in the direction that you want it to go in terms of creating financial stability. I mean, the answer is the rest of your life. If this is your Dharma. Right. The question of you abandoning it or giving it up shouldn't even be entering your consciousness.

No. But what you should be thinking about is how to incorporate it into your life in a sustainable way. And maybe if you detach from that pressure or interest in having it be a revenue generator, and you really develop this new relationship of doing it for the thing,

just to do it to do it for the joy of it, I don't know, man, sometimes do it for the joy of it. I don't know, man, sometimes that's where the magic happens and doors start opening and it leads you in a different direction because your relationship with that thing is pure. And- No doubt about it.

I think of two things. One is, I remember doing a story on Polynesian healing and healers. And I met this awesome kahuna in Tahiti, in Papayete. And he was telling me that he can't earn a living. Practice, you know, kahuna is like a shaman, right? A medicine man. And so he can't earn a living by healing.

So people will turn up at his house with like, you know, livestock or with, you know, something they made at home or some sort of craft or item commodity. That's never money. And that's old school sub stack. Yeah. I mean, that's way old school, but like it's, that's like beyond old school. That's like roots, you know? And, and that comes from a place of the purity, like you're talking about it. Right. But on the other hand, I mean, there are business, like there are life coaches that are specialized as business coaches, right?

I mean, you heard of that before? There must be some consultants you can talk about. Like there is, like I said, like figuring out how to make a better living at something, that's a different riddle and it can be solved. I'm sure it can be solved. Right, again, it's hard to know in her particular case because we don't know what the thing is,

but I can tell you that in my case, trying to figure out how to translate these things that I was interested in into a vocation was a very long and difficult and drawn out process that required a lot of faith and toil and hard work and pivots and the like. It certainly didn't happen overnight, but you gotta stay in it to win it. If you really do wanna translate it into,

I'm sure there's some way of bringing on people who are entrepreneurs or business wizards or coaches who can look at what you're doing and try to figure out a model that might work. So maybe seek that out as a way of getting help in that specific area. Or maybe you're already in the middle of it. Maybe you're already in the middle of like figuring that out

and you don't even realize it, you know what I mean? Right. What if the thing that she's doing is generating her $10 million a year, but she just feels like she needs $30 million a year? It's just not quite cutting it, Adam. It's her dharma, but it's not working out financially. It's her dharma, but she wants floor seats

at the Laker game. All right, or Celtic game. She's in Boston. All right, let's move on. Moving on to a place called Fargo, North Dakota. Heard of it. Hello, Rich and Adam. This is Simon from Fargo, North Dakota.

Many of your guests on your show talk about shifting mindset, whether it's around positivity, love, or other outlooks on life. And I'm wondering if you have any tips for embracing this change. Once you've acknowledged a desire to change, how do you enact these mindset changes in your life? And I'm wondering if you have any tips for embracing this change. Once you've acknowledged a desire to change, how do you enact these mindset changes in your life? I'm loving the new roll-on format and thanks for all you do. Well, Adam, you know, you're on a roll.

Like I said, keep rolling. I'm going to go to the bathroom. You just take this one. Simon is loving the new roll-on format. How about that? I don't have much to say here other than I've always thought that we are the sum total of our actions, like it or not.

So small actions that reinforce any change in mindset is crucial. So any, you know, and that could be, it doesn't have to be an act of physical action. If what you're trying to do is go from a negative first mindset to a positive first, like half cup, cup half empty to cup half full. Sometimes it's really just noticing when you trend negative

and try to come with an appreciation, a thought of gratitude in that moment. I had that exact thing happen to me when I kind of started to change my outlook in life as I think I was 22 and just that switch flipped in a way that was like life-changing for me, but it took conscious thought and I still do it. It takes, sometimes you have to take,

it takes conscious mental notes basically at all times to get yourself to that point where you're really starting to see the world with a positive outlook first. But at the same time, I am, I think naturally optimistic, but like doing that would help. And then any sort of action that follows that thought, any, like you say, thought follows action, right? Or is it action follows thought? I forget what you say. Action first. Thought follows action. So you agree with this? So the way I think about it, I agree with all of that.

And this is a subject matter that you're kind of tiptoeing around that I was trying to get at in that recent monologue episode, the yin and yang of change. On the one hand, there is this mindfulness, presence, Eastern peace, On the one hand, there is this mindfulness, presence, Eastern peace, which is when you're paying attention, you can notice the recurrences of your thoughts

and you can catch yourself before you react mindlessly and you can decide to behave differently. And you can remember like, oh, here I am doing that negative thing. I'm not gonna do that anymore. Okay, here's my opportunity to do the positive thing. And that only happens when you slow things down and you develop that muscle of mindfulness

and paying attention and being present. The other side of it is the action piece. So the mindfulness piece is like, it can be like a lightning bolt. Like you could change your mind and your life is different all at once. It can happen in an instance. So there's the lightning bolts

and then there's the brick laying part, the action part, the atomic little pieces, the James Clear kind of habit forming behavior that leads to incremental change over time. And I think both of those things are important. Mood follows action. Action first creates the mindset changes and the emotional changes.

So all of these things emanate from action. So when you say, I wanna change my mindset, first of all, great, let's recognize and applaud you for having that desire. But I think everybody kinda wants to be better, has a desire for their life to be a little bit better than it is. So let's not make too much of that.

The real rubber meets the road when we start talking about how you translate that desire into something, anything, behavior, right? It's all about execution and action. So when you say, I'm looking for a mindset change, A, what does that mean? That's such a vague thing. I wanna be more positive, still super vague.

You have to be very specific. You can't just suddenly start thinking differently because mindset is, like I said, both a reflection and a product of behavior. And it's less about what you're thinking. And it's more about what are you doing on the bricklayer side of things? Like act first, the mind will follow, mood follows action.

And that is effective when you have clarity, specificity and structure around what that looks like. And so you need to translate that desire to change into first, like, what does it look like? And what are the doable, repeatable, sustainable actions that you can take every single day, like James Clear talks about in Atomic Habits? And how do you protect them and prioritize them

so that they're repeatable and sustainable within the construct of your busy life? If it becomes disruptive to your life, you're setting yourself up for failure. The people who are successful who make are the people who are able to make those tiny, invisible atomic tweaks, repeat them enough until they become rote

and then build upon them. So their lifestyle shifts gradually in, you know, kind of proportion to the changes that are being made. And you kind of expand in this organic gradual way. And I think it's gonna be different for different types of changes in goals, like mindset goal. Again, what does that mean specific? But if it's something that can be tied

to a date on the calendar, like it's, I wanna run a marathon, there's a mindset shift that's gonna take place as a result of setting that goal and doing the preparation to get across that finish line. And that destination date on the calendar is your deadline. And you work backwards from there to create the atomic habits, the stepping stones

that are gonna move you in that direction. So that's always good, but not all goals are time-bound in that way. And there's nothing wrong with that either, because ultimately what we're looking for is a lifestyle shift that is going to stay with you and isn't going to expire when you cross that finish line, right?

Which causes all the relapses and the kind of reverting back to the norm that we see with people who are trying to make changes. I also think it's really important to strike when the iron is hot, because those moments of willingness, like I'm ready to change, they're fleeting and they pass quickly.

So when you notice yourself experiencing that level of willingness, I think it's important to develop the reflex or the habit of actually translating that as immediately as possible into doing something like taking an action, a specific action that's repeatable because it's a very kind of, you know, as Liz Gilbert, I'm sure would agree.

Like these things live in the cloud, you know what I mean? Like, if you're not grabbing them quickly, they're gone. Right? So presence, the lightning bolt kind of mindfulness aspect of being aware when that willingness arises and then the bricklayer piece of like, I'm willing right now, what can I do?

What choice can I make in this moment? That's gonna kind of just tweak my trajectory a little bit. And then how do I build upon that? How do I protect and prioritize the repeatability of whatever it is I just did, how to then create momentum and then respect that momentum. Cause once you've string, you string together even a couple of days of something,

that's real, there's a power in that. There's a reason why streaks are such a thing. We have Hella about to celebrate six whatever years, 6,000 whatever, the guys run every day for a long time. And he's not gonna wake up tomorrow and not run. No. There's so much momentum behind this streak and the repeatability of this action

that he decided to take a long time ago. And that's something that I think you have to really respect again. I love that, that's a great note. Accountability I think is big, accountability to yourself, like if this is really important and then accountability to other people, as long as you're choosing wisely,

like who you select to be accountable for. Make sure it's somebody who really wants the best for you and isn't gonna kind of work across purposes with you building this new behavior set. That's a good point. Like the accountability aspect and the momentum aspect, I didn't think about the accountability part. I also think patience is huge

and I've been beating this drum forever, but everybody wants these changes to happen so fast. And when they don't see immediate results or anything noticeable, it's just easy to revert back. But these things are hard. They take a long time. They're non-linear. It's, you know, one step forward, two steps backward, all that kind of stuff. And so if you're thinking about it in what Gordo

Byrne called on the podcast, like thousand day increments or decades or even years, as opposed to, well, in six months, I want to be this, allow yourself, you know, that room and be gracious with yourself when you slip because that's part of the process and not hold yourself to some unrealistic set of expectations or rules around perfectionism, you're gonna be in a better stead. And I think it takes 90 days to really even begin

the process of letting go of an old habit and building the foundation for a new one. Is that a 12 step principle? Yeah, I mean, the 28 day rehab thing. I mean, honestly, 28 days, like I think 90 days is much more grounded in reality in my experience. And even if it is a goal with a date on the calendar, I think it's important to,

it's cool to like have that as a North Star to motivate you and as something to work towards, but it's also important to not be too destination oriented. This is the other yin and yang, right? Like you have to be loose with it. The goal is long-term change, which means, you know, moving towards this better self where your actions cohere to a greater extent with your values.

They're a greater reflection of your values. I mean, that's the real goal here, right? Of change. And that's meaningless if it's flimsy or doesn't stick. And you think overnight switch flipping change tends to not stick as much as incremental change? I just think it's very contingent specific. Conditional.

It's contextual, it depends on the person and the situation. People make a decision, I'm gonna go vegan, they never eat meat again. I'm gonna go sober today, they never drink again. And then some people relapse and relapse and relapse and relapse, and they put together a year or two and maybe for the next 10 years,

they only drank a couple of times and it's not perfect. Everybody's different. It's your relationship to that. And it's the, you know, how are you spending most of your time compared to what it used to look like? And I think we're all really hard on ourselves when it comes to this kind of stuff. And when we experience failure or it becomes difficult,

like we just, we give up too soon. That's fucking great, man. That was a hell of a rant. I loved it. All right, yeah, so thank you, Simon, for the question. Fantastic. And let's go to Josh from Portland. This next one, I'm gonna play it for you.

I just wanna make sure you know, listeners know, he's really choosing his words carefully. It sounds halting at times, but I think it's because it's an emotional question and he's choosing his words extremely carefully, which I had a lot of respect for. It's obvious what was happening and his words are, you know, well chosen.

So the pacing is maybe a little bit different. So just so you know, going in. Hi, I'm Josh Casey, Portland, Oregon. I'm curious, what has helped you specifically connect with your teenage children? What started open communication? What were the first steps around awareness of maybe even transparency around your sobriety and the teenage experience that's growing within the same household as yourself? What is an approach that you've taken and how has it developed or

changed over time? I am working with a teenage recovery community and developing mindful practices or simply self-reflection across the teenage demographic and starting those conversations on how to have a more mindful conversation around drug use and what our bodies are circling our thoughts around or how to better take care of ourselves is a topic that I'm struggling in this moment to have and to support. Thank you for your time and energy and conversation around how we change over time. I appreciate it a lot. Goodbye.

Yeah, my heart's breaking hearing that. It's pretty heavy. Yeah, I can only infer, but I have a sense that he's dealing with a teenager of his own who's going through something that he's struggling to understand and figure out how to navigate

for himself and for his child. I don't know that to be the case, but it feels like that's what's going on here. And it just, you know, there's few things harder than knowing how to deal with that. And I wanna be compassionate because it is so hard and there is no right or wrong or clear path

or way to answer this question, particularly when the communication channel is only trying to be developed now when you're in an acute crisis situation as opposed to a history of building that such that it can be leveraged when that crisis period arises. So it's hard to construct that in the heat of a very challenging situation.

to construct that in the heat of a very challenging situation. So I think, you know, I would say as a backdrop to this, I'm a big believer, no surprise, in open communication and transparency with your kids. Josh wanted to know kind of how I've handled that or how I think about that. And I'm somebody who made a decision to be very open with my kids about my addiction and my recovery their whole lives.

So they've never known anything different. They've all been to AA meetings with me. It's a topic of conversation at dinner. So there's nothing hidden around that. And Julie's shared her history over those years. And I think that has allowed us to build trust and create and maintain a channel of communication where the kids feel safe coming to the table

and sharing their experiences, because there's no fear of judgment or punishment as a result of that, because the most important thing is the communication piece and the truth. And the minute that you bring that punishment sensibility into that dynamic, the communication shuts down and the person starts to just,

it doesn't change their behavior. It just puts them in a place where they're gonna start hiding it and lying about it. So I've always been very mindful about that. And I think, you know, listen, when teens, when kids become teens, they all, you know, they become different people. Like, you're like, who is this person?

And part of that is hormonal. And part of that is a very healthy desire to differentiate that is important in guiding them towards adulthood. And it's to be kind of respected, right? You want them to do that. So as they become different, rather than resisting it or being confused by it

or being upset about it, like finding ways to dance around it and embrace it. And part of that is withdrawing from the openness that you enjoyed when the kids were younger. So it becomes harder to keep that channel open. And I'm sharing this as no master of this, I'm telling you. Like we had a lot of rocky teenage years. And so I've taken my lumps in this world as well.

a lot of rocky teenage years. And so I've taken my lumps in this world as well. But I can tell you that you can't force the kid to open up. You can't force the dialogue. You can't schedule it. Questions like how was school or what happened today generally go nowhere, but there are moments if you're patient

and those moments arise in unpredictable, brief flashes, where if you're spending enough time with your kid, just driving or doing whatever you're doing, suddenly they'll come to you and say something. And you just have to like live for those moments and appreciate them when they come because you can't will them into being. And one way into that is to try to find a way

to be interested in what they're interested in, right? You can't force them to be interested in what you're, like you may think like, oh, they'll love this or this is what I like, so they should like it. Or I'm gonna take this teen to go do this thing that I enjoy and teach them that. Instead, what are they already into? Are they playing video games?

Are they listening to music? Are they playing a certain sport? Whatever it is, developing an interest in that is a way in to connection with the kids. So an example would be, let your kid play the music they wanna play in the car. And when a song comes up that you've never heard before, like ask them about it, talk to them about it,

or what TV show are they watching or what YouTuber do they like and why? And just be curious about their life without your bullshit and your baggage tends to work. And it's not an immediate thing, but it's a practice. I think that I think is beneficial and it doesn't matter what you say, it's what you do. So you got to lead by example.

If you're interested in your children being more mindful than you have to be an example of mindfulness in front of them. But I think in this acute example, the important thing, first of all, you have to be an example of mindfulness in front of them. But I think in this acute example, the important thing, first of all, is figuring out a way to take care of yourself. I mean, clearly Josh is suffering.

Right. And he is not in a position to help his teen unless he takes care of himself. And my biggest suggestion would be that he seek out Al-Anon meetings where he has a community of people who are weathering similar situations and have a lot of experience and tools that could be helpful.

Or maybe he's sober himself and this needs to be done. Yeah, I don't know. There's a lot of question marks here, but if that's an unexplored situation or terrain, I would suggest, even if just for the community of people, that you can talk to about what you're going through and maybe extract a little bit of wisdom that would be applicable in your life. And then, assuming Josh has a teen

who's going through a drug situation at the moment, understanding that as painful as it is, there's very little that you can do to get the person to stop. Because that person has to want to, it has to be willing to, if they truly are an addict or an alcoholic. Like if the grips of addiction are really in there

and it's not just teenage rebellion or a phase or something like that. It becomes very unwieldy and difficult to untie that knot. So it's a dance. They need to know that you're not happy with what's going on. You need to make sure that you're not codependent in the behavior or afraid to confront them on that behavior.

And it's certainly appropriate to create rules around the teen's behavior such that if they're broken, there are repercussions to that, of course. But the trick is to not be so emotionally activated by the whole thing and to hold it a little bit more loosely because it's so confusing and confounding to watch somebody engage in self-destructive behavior or kind of blaze their way

towards some self-destructive end. And you know the way out of that and you can't understand why they can't see it or they won't do the right thing, et cetera, it can be baffling and incredibly painful. And also there's this amazing sense of powerlessness that you have because you just can't make it stop no matter what you do. Do you intervene?

Do you get a bunch of people and like kidnap the person in the middle of the night and put them in the back of a van and take them off to. You can do that. And that person might stay sober for a little while. Chances are not for very long though, because it wasn't their idea. So how do you gracefully kind of nudge them towards a realization

that maybe there's a better way to live? And I'm certainly no Jedi master when it comes to that, but I can tell you keeping communication open, making sure that they know that you love them and that you're available for them, but not available to participate in their bullshit, but available if and when they're ready to get help. And then finding a way to create trust in a space

where they can share what's going on with them without being on the receiving end of a lot of judgment, I think is super important. Like we have two younger ones, one comes home, TMI, tells us everything that happened at the party. And it's just like enough to induce, you know, a permanent panic attack at what teenagers are doing. Malibu parties.

Yeah. And the other one keeps it all inside. Right. And it's a mystery box. How do I unlock this person and figure out what they're thinking? And how do I get them to open up? One's too open, the other one's not. So it's like, I've swung between these extremes

and I'm trying to figure it out myself every single day. But I think they both know that if they come to me to talk to me about this kind of stuff, that I'm available and that I'm not gonna judge them and it's okay. That the most important thing is that they're safe and that I love them and that I care about them and I'm gonna take care of them. But that didn't happen in the heat,

that sense of trust didn't arise in the heat of an acute situation. It was kind of created over a long period of time. So I would seek out counsel. It sounds like Josh is already doing that. Al-Anon would be huge. And again, there's no right or wrong. I mean, there's nothing more painful

than to watch a loved one suffer. And when the loved one is your child, it's just, it's the worst, right? It is the absolute worst. And, you know, I have a lot of compassion for my parents who were in a lot of pain when I was going through what I was going through and I couldn't see that and I didn't care. And it's just when you're in the disease,

that's all that matters. So it's not personal and they're not bad people. They're suffering from a disease that is distinct from the person that you love and trying to remember that, I think is important also. And being curious about it, just like being curious about their interests, like, hey, how'd that go last night?

How do you feel? Like, feel good? You wanna keep doing that? Maybe you need to keep doing it. We'll see how it goes. How can you be a little more dispassionate and unattached to that result. And when you let go of that,

like this person needs to get better. And why can't they see it? If you just take all of that away, there's a vacuum. And I think the teen will feel that vacuum all of a sudden. Like, hey, I'm not getting vibed anymore. How come? Oh, it's on me? I mean, I don't need to get sober for him.

He's off my back now. That's all I wanted. I thought I just wanted my parents off my back. Now they're off my back. Suddenly you have to look at yourself in the mirror and that can work to prompt a little bit of self accountability. Not always, who knows?

It's just one way of thinking about it and looking at it. And then one day, hopefully there will be a little opening. You know, maybe he or she will come to you and say, "'Hey, this isn't working out for me." And you need to be prepared for what to say and what to do in that moment. Compassion, non-judgment, boundaries are huge. Taking care of yourself, seeking out counsel and advice,

not keeping it to yourself, the fact that you called and left this message, I think is huge. But if you can develop the practice of having conversations with trusted people who are part of this community, who can help you in your area, I think that would be unbelievable. And you're in Portland.

I went to treatment in Portland. So there's a Hazelden down in Newburgh and there's an open AA meeting there. And they probably have Al-Anon meetings there. That's where I got sober. And I know the recovery community in Portland is strong and it's very strong with young people. The teen sober community in Portland is kind of a very cool, remarkable thing.

So those are my thoughts. I hope there's something helpful in what I had to share. Beautiful, heavy stuff. Josh, good luck, man. Here's a fun one, a more fun one kind of to close it out. Thanks everyone for your questions. Please keep calling, the line is open. That's right, the voicemail number is 424,

no, what is it? 424-235-4626. There you go. And keep them coming because we're going to keep doing this. In the meantime, here's Mario. Hey, Rich and Adam. This is Mario in sunny San Diego, California. Thanks for all the years of great podcasts.

I've learned so much and it's helped my life measurably. But my question is one of the fun ones. Rich, you never talk about your time as an entertainment lawyer. My question was, you got any good stories about your entertainment lawyer days, maybe some crazy client demands or client behavior? Of course, you don't have to give any names unless you don't want to. Thanks. That's such a cool question. I don't think anyone's ever asked me that. I don't know if it's interesting to anybody other than Mario, but yeah, I got lots of stories. Let's hear them. It's a little dicey. There's a couple of stories. Probably shouldn't share those. A few names that probably are better left unrevealed.

The redacted. I do live here. It is a town that talks a lot. Not that I'm in that world at all anymore. So yeah, a lot. Disappointingly, you know, very far from A-list. That's even better, that's even better. I'm not like, I don't have great Tom Cruise,

Brad Pitt stories, although I did share that. I stood next to Brad Pitt inside the Mercedes garage at the Formula One race and no words were exchanged. Is that an encounter? I wasn't a lawyer, anyway. You're an extra. Yeah, it's, listen, Hollywood's a weird place and kind of dancing around the edges of that business. There's just gonna be weird stories that happen.

And just off the cuff, like I thought about this for a minute, like what are, I'm sure there's a million more, but the ones that I had a bunch, I kind of made a list of a few that had happened. I moved to LA to work at this entertainment firm and in short shrift found myself working under Robert Shapiro of OJ fame. So I was his associate on one or two cases.

Just after OJ? Two cases. I worked on two cases with him. So this was after, I mean, I was studying for the bar when the Bronco chase happened and that's just cemented into my brain forever. And if you're a younger person listening to this, it's really hard to really appreciate or imagine just how all consuming the OJ trial was.

Well, it was before the trial, it was like, we just thought his ex-wife had been killed and it was really, we felt bad for OJ. And next thing you know, we turned around and OJ's on the run for the T1 Porter. It was the craziest, most riveting thing ever. And then of course, everything that, you know, followed and ensued after that,

it just captured everybody to such a level that I don't know has anything since, I mean, it was a monoculture back then that has kind of since vanished. There was no Twitter, there was a lot of this, a lot of the certain social media wasn't, so it was a different time. But anyway, it was, let me just say,

if you didn't experience it, it was a big fucking deal. And like the lawyers representing OJ were just, I mean, again, seared into your brain, Johnny Cochran, you know. Well, they were also great characters. Kardashian, you know, like. They're just great characters. Yeah, like the, you know, the paterfamilias of the whole Kardashian thing tracks back to OJ, you know.

And of course, Robert Shapiro. So it was very surreal when I suddenly started working for this guy that I've been watching on television. And I worked on some civil suit stuff with him. But I do remember one night working late in the office and he was there and me and maybe two other associates, I can't remember, we were eating Chinese food in a conference room with Bob,

call him Bob. Yeah. And we had the TV on, and this was around the civil verdict in the civil suit. Okay. And I just remember watching the news with him of helicopter point of view over his Brentwood estate as like people were going in and out of the house

and like taking out his like prize belongings of this vague memory of that, sitting with him, like talking to him about the OJ trial, watching OJ stuff like on the news. And this was like right after I'd moved to Los Angeles. And suddenly I was like at this firm that was in, you know, kind of at the vortex of a lot of, you know, Griffin Dunn ask vanity fair type,

you know, Hollywood intrigue and disputes. And it was kind of fascinating and bizarre. Yeah. That was my introduction. What was his take on it? Was it, was he like, He was just curious. Well, first of all,

of all the partners in this law firm, he seemed the happiest. Like he kind of did his own thing. He sort of had an office there. He was sort of part of the firm, but he kind of did whatever he wanted outside of it. Yeah, I don't know. I was too sheepish and young to like really,

I don't remember talking to him about it directly. I just remember thinking how strange it was that I was working with him. And anyway, I ended up leaving that firm when I kind of was like, I can't do this anymore. And a client that I had been working for who was Bob's client called me and said, I know you left the firm,

but I could really use your help on this case that's still ongoing. Why don't you just come and work for me? You don't have to go to a law firm. You can come to my house and I had no money. And I thought, this is cool. So I thought, sure, I'll do that. Well, he lived in the Marion Davies estate

behind the Beverly Hills Hotel. It is the house that was built by William Randolph Hearst for his mistress. And it's a house most of you are probably familiar with because it appeared in the Godfather. And it's the house, the producer's house who wakes up with the horse head. And I worked every day at that house in the pool house,

right next to that pool. Crazy. Working on a very strange case. The details, it was a horrible case though. Let's just leave it at that. I remember Brian Wilson wandering the halls of the law firm that I was working for, looking like he was lost and didn't know what was going on.

I think he was having his deposition taken in some manner. Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys. Yes. Yeah. I snuck into Steven Spielberg's office one night at DreamWorks, I remember that, me and a buddy who shall remain unnamed. Well, he had some kind of business there

and he had a friend, he's like, oh, let's go in. Well, we went into DreamWorks like after hours and everyone was gone and he's like, hey, let's go into Steven's office. And we were like in his office and sitting behind his desk. Steven? Steven, I've never met the guy. Steven should lock his office.

I had to go to Richard Dreyfuss' house and meet with him at his house in Rancho Cucamonga once. He lives in Rancho Cucamonga? Yeah, he lives in like a horse ranch property in San Diego area. That was a very strange meeting that amounted to nothing. I follow his son Ben on Twitter, he's funny. I represented Michael Bolton for a hot minute.

And I remember this is like when- If you don't know me- Cell phones weren't quite a thing yet. They were kind of new. It wasn't the thing that you used all the time. And he had my cell phone number. And I remember he called me one night when I was laying in bed with Julie.

And I was like, babe, it's Michael Bolton. I gotta take this call. Babe, we'd like to hear Michael hit it. I did production legal or not production legal. I did some legal work, financing docs on a movie called The Cooler, which people might remember as the film starring William Macy and Alec Baldwin.

I don't even know that movie, no. Well, Alec Baldwin got a Academy Award nomination for appearing in that movie. That was the movie that kind of resuscitated his career out of the action hero phase and into kind of better work. And that was a fun one. Yeah, you should check it out, the Cooler. You never saw that one.

Never saw it. Shout out to my boy, Brett Morrison, my friend Brett, who was my client on that. Okay. Who was one of the financiers of that film. That movie had a wrap party that would never fly in 2023. Okay. I'll leave that there.

Yeah. Here's leave that there. Yeah. Here's a good one. I helped Rick Schroeder, Ricky Schroeder, make a little movie called Black Cloud. It's Rick now. Yeah, did some legal work on that movie. Was on set with Rick. It's a movie about a Native American boxer.

Okay. And I play a cameo. Really? So find that movie, seek it out, watch it. Send me a screen grab of my cameo if you can identify me. Can we get a screen grab? There's photographic evidence out there. I wanna see a screen grab. On that note, I also worked on a movie called,

See This Movie. It was another little independent movie that shot in Montreal and I did production legal on that. That starred a young Seth Meyers. I think he had just finished like his first year at SNL and John Cho. And that was really fun. And I also played a bit part in that movie

if you can find it. Really? Yeah. And that's how you know Chris White. This brings it back to you because it was produced by Chris Whiteitz, who's your boy. Yes. For those that don't know, Chris is- I mean, I wouldn't say he's, I mean, I love the guy,

but I haven't seen him in a while. He's an amazing, amazing person. He's an amazing talent, a great guy, and a better guy. Him and his brother made American Pie, wrote and directed American Pie, and then About a Boy, and he wrote Star Wars Rogue One. Which is great as well. And here's a maybe less known fact about Chris Weitz,

huge burner, Burning Man guy. Yes, that's where he met his wife. So much so, he's part of like, what is his little tribe or his little community of Burning Man? I don't know the name. I don't know the name, but he was on the board. Something Galactica that he was on the board of? Like he's heavily involved. He was on the board of Burning Man. I don't know the name, but he was on the board. Something Galactica that he was on the board of, like he's heavily involved.

He was on the board of Burning Man, I think for a period of time. Maybe, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. And the reason I bring that up is we were shooting this movie, I think it was September. When is Burning Man? Is it August or September? Well, anyway, we were a couple of weeks into production.

He's like, I gotta go. I gotta go to Burning Man. And he just left the movie in the middle of production to go to the desert. And he was like, I think it's cool that your producer can go to Burning Man in the middle of production. It means I trust everybody. I mean, he's a veteran now.

He started out as Wunderkinds and they're veterans, you know, like doing it all. It's amazing, amazing career for both he and his brother, Paul. Right, he's a brilliant, brilliant talent. I did, so on that movie, I was, part of my job was negotiating all the talent deals and creating all the contracts for them.

And I don't remember the details of it, but I remember colossally screwing up Seth Meyers deal where I had like stated the wrong rate, like his fee and all that kind of stuff and had to eat crow and call his agents. And I was like, I didn't really know what I was doing. And it was so humiliating. So he thought he was getting paid.

I don't know. Well, the information probably never trickled down to him, but I had to like call up these agents who were like, this guy's an idiot. He's doing it all. They were correct about that. But I'll end with maybe my favorite Hollywood encounter story,

which is the time that Sylvester Stallone complimented me on my calves. They are wonderful calves. They are wondrous, they are wondrous, you know, carved from granite. I was at a sort of family oriented event, the details of which are not important, but I was introduced to him and I was wearing shorts and he wanted to talk about how I made my calf muscles

the way that they were. To which I said, ask my mother, I have nothing to do with it. They're just like, they are what they are. That's what you say, but your- They've always been that way. Your athletic resume- They've always been that way.

Tells another story. But anyway, my calves being the envy of Sylvester Stallone is the appropriate ending to this already too long podcast. That's what we do in the old school roll on space. We go long, we go sometimes deep, long and occasionally deep. Always long, occasionally deep. Yeah.

That's a good, there's another book title for you. Always long winded, occasionally deep. There you go. Maybe we'll do this again. You guys let us know. Looking forward to your feedback. I like moving back and forth. I like it.

Yeah, we're done, right? I think we're done. We go. I gotta go. I'm out of here. Goodbye. Bye. Thank you.