The Rich Roll Podcast - Roll On: Fatherhood, Face-Off & The FAR Event

Episode Date: November 11, 2021

Dadding. Surfing with Zuckerberg. Celebrating Ten Thousand’s glorious new FAR line with Robbie Balenger. And of course, the Adam-Brogan faceoff we’ve all been waiting for. Welcome to another hotly anticipated edition of ‘Roll On,’ wherein myself and my undefeated podcast co-pilot Adam Skolnick (and our intruding guest Brogan Graham) hone on matters of contemporaneous import, and more than anything, get a bit silly. Aside from serving as my magnanimous sidecar hype-beast, Adam Skolnick is an activist and veteran journalist best known as David Goggins’ Can’t Hurt Me, co-author. Adam writes about adventure sports, environmental issues, and civil rights for outlets such as The New York Times, Outside, ESPN, BBC, and Men’s Health. He is the author of One Breath and is currently using the ‘new dad’ excuse to avoid working on his novel. This episode unfurls in a fashion unique. We start off with the half-cocked banter you’ve come to know and love. Adam and Brogan hash out their drama. We discuss the nuances of being a new dad. And the importance of showing up for your kids and partner. We then close things out with my conversation with ultra-runner and friend of the pod Robbie Balenger, which was recorded at Ten Thousand’s live event at the Legendary Explorer’s Club in NYC, where we celebrated the launch of my Free Association Run (FAR) kit—a collection of men’s running gear. To read more click here. You can also watch listen to our exchange on YouTube. And as always, the podcast streams wild and free on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Listener Stories: There’s something potent and important about your journey that others can benefit from hearing. Learning is a communal act. And this podcast is merely a conduit. I’d like you to consider sharing your journey of transformation with me, specifically how this show has helped shape it. Leave us a voicemail at (805)-421-0057 to share your story and the wisdom you’ve gleaned from the podcast, and your message could very well be aired in a future episode. Enjoy the show! Peace + Plants, Rich Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey everybody, what's a good word? I know it's been an extended minute. Roll on went dark for a bit of a prolonged hiatus, but worry not, Adam and I did not break up. We are in good stead. The respite due solely to things like travel, alternative programming, other matters,

scheduling and miscellaneous, but fear not, we are back. And all that pent up excitement and anticipation will soon burst forth. So commence we shall. My name is Rich Roll. Once again, I encourage you to applaud the illusion of free will that directed you towards your predetermined destiny

to absorb this content today. I hope this transmission of ones and zeros find you loved in the analog world and in a grateful, open and capacious mindset to receive because I am joined once again by my favorite spice Lord, vice Roy of beaches Malibu, vicar of words noble, humble chaplain of wetlands and wet dry,

the good sir Adam Skolnick, he's not a man, he's a planet. For those new roll on is our sometimes emphasis on sometimes bi-weekly shuffle step a scant from my traditional fair of evergreen conversations to get a bit silly. I think it's fair to say, hone in on matters of contemporaneous import.

And today in the interest of always tweaking the format, we tweak the format so much. I'm not sure we actually have a format, Adam, do we? At this point, everything's out the window. Nonetheless, we again do just that. So after our half-cocked banter that you've come to know and love for the second part of the show,

we're gonna share my conversation with ultra runner friend and friend of the pod, Robbie Ballinger. That was recorded on October 9th at the Explorers Club. It was part of a live event hosted by my partners and friends at 10,000. and friend of the pod, Robbie Ballinger. That was recorded on October 9th at the Explorers Club. It was part of a live event hosted by my partners and friends at 10,000 to celebrate the launch of my kit collaboration with them, the Free Association Run or FAR collection of men's running gear.

Get your hands on that stuff, by the way. That also involved a group run in Central Park, but while we have that to look forward to right now, I have Adam right here. So what say you, good sir? What's going on? It's come, the time has come. What is happening?

I figured we just gotta get this going. The interloper is here. It's gotta happen. Uninvited. Hello, Brogan. I think this is the in-person that people are waiting to see and hear. This is a podcast, right?

I think people might not realize that Brogan and Adam haven't actually met in person before. How do we do this? Do we stand? I would love to stand. Do we sit together? Let's do it. Let's sit together and let's stand up.

I think if you're, can we do it? No, we'll save it to the end. I'm not so sure. We'll see how it goes first before the hug might be a little premature. You don't hug before the arbitration. Make sure you pull that mic up. First of all, thanks for not inviting me again this time.

You just can't stay away. What happened? Did you hijack a plane to get here? I flew nonstop from Minneapolis to Los Angeles and I got a camper van called the White Tiger from a caveman and I drove it here to the hills. And now I'm sitting with these two brilliant men. And I feel like-

We showed up today, you're just parked out front in a van with a surfboard and a skateboard. Yeah. Waiting for us to arrive. And quite frankly, you're too big to live in a van. First of all, that's a little bit messed up, but it's fine. What else did you expect though when you didn't invite me to this show?

I don't know. It looked kind of like I was having a garage sale. I mean, I threw you a bone. I let you do a couple ads. We played up the whole Brogan, Adam, you know, kind of rivalry here. We built the Biggie Tupac thing. And the thing is,

but by giving me the ads though, it's like now I smell blood. In terms of like- Yeah, but that was intended to placate you. So you would go away happily. Yeah, talk about macro bars and be done. And Adam and I could get back to business. I just felt like it was a placation move.

What started as a joke of, I'm gonna get that guy's job. Right. We got a little bit of some rumblings from some Adam and Rich fans, right? Which was awesome. They came to your rescue. I don't think I was serious at the beginning, but then it started to become a thing.

Yeah. And then we did the ads. Were you taking out that billboard? Was a bit. It was weird. That was weird. It was actually a lot cheaper than you think. And you taking out that billboard? It was weird. That was weird. It was actually a lot cheaper than you think. And you took a three for one deal.

Yeah, so you got Sunset Strip, Times Square. And then what's the place? Where would you do it in Minneapolis? Downtown Minneapolis, right next to the Grand Exchange. It's actually outside the window that I work at. So it's like when I'm feeling down, I look out there and I'm like, I am going to kill that guy Skullmaker. And it's just, you know, it's a casual 50 foot.

I mean, it was, let's just say it was a bit much. It was, but- It's proving the adage of give an inch, take a mile, because here's the thing. Adam's job is secure. So I don't know what your agenda is. All right, so go back to the timeline. I say in the public setting,

I'm gonna take that guy's job. I said, I'm gonna bring that guy down. You laughed, very encouraging. There's some rumblings. Right. And then I started listening- It wasn't meant to be encouraging, it was meant to be dismissive.

Yeah, go away. Dismissive laughter? Yeah. Do the macro bar ad and go home. I'll play it up for yucks on the podcast, but in truth, there's no threat. And then I started doing my homework on this roll on, this love, this romance.

You actually listened. I started listening to the show. And man, it's good. You wanted to replace me without listening. I mean, you're not the only one. We've gotten those messages too. I'm going to take that guy's job. What does he do? You know, is he on the show? So, so then I started listening to the rich roll podcast. The roll on is incredible. I started doing some homework, uh, lonely planet stuff, deep sea diving stuff, the blue hole, one, one breath. Is that the book? Deep blue. I started doing some homework, Lonely Planet stuff, deep sea diving stuff, the blue hole, one breath, is that the book? Yeah, deep blue.

I did one breath on audio book. By the way, if you read, if you do an audio book, can you say you read the book? I think so. In 2021, I think you can get away with it. So I read your book and I think I started with this thing of like, I'm gonna learn, I'm gonna study this guy and then bring him down.

I'm gonna like occupy his flesh and then flex and he- And then he surgically trade faces. Oh. Right? That'd be a great move. Like what is it, Nicholas Cage? Yeah. Anyway, and then the more I learned about you, I just like, just like you, I fell in love with the guy.

So now I'm here to make the peace. Well, I think we should do, we should attempt to do that. Can I say something really quick? It is awesome to be hip deep in the metaverse with you guys. Come on, come on. It's the first time I've been in the meta with you guys. This is an analog version of the metaverse. Oh, it is?

Right now, as far as we can tell. Yeah, did you guys catch- Unless we're in a super advanced version of the metaverse. It's the advanced one. He's going full Oculus. Did you catch Zuckerberg's presentation? Cause I love the way he's so natural and authentic. Right.

It's just like, I can watch him all day. Yeah, Zuckerberg. I spoke at an event at Zuckerberg's thing. And he told me, he told his assistant. His thing, that thing called Facebook. Facebook, a global event. I spoke there, it was like the coolest thing. I was so that thing called Facebook? Facebook, a global event, I spoke there. It was like the coolest thing, I was so scared.

But I got off the stage and I gave him the mic. And when I got off stage, I was like, oh, that was Zuckerberg. I was so pumped to be done that I didn't even really think in the moment. So crazy, right? He's this world famous guy, who cares? But his assistant said, stick around.

He wants to talk to you after the thing. Oh, what a story. It was about community, he wanted to talk about community. Yeah. And I was like- You wanna talk about like foiling? Right, or like how everyone in the surf community hates him. Anyway-

Not everybody. Talk it out, who? Well, we'll get there. Okay, fine. Anyway, and then I stuck around for his presentation. It was very natural, very organic. Like you said, charismatic, brought me in. He really brings you in with those eyes.

I was leaning in, but then, and then he blew me off. And then I waited through the whole thing. And then you get his cell number. His assistant goes, he has to catch his flight. And I go, doesn't he have a jet? And he go, yeah. I was like, okay. Don't they leave when he says?

I guess he can just say he wants to undo the idea. Yeah, I'd really love to talk to that guy. Anyway, yeah. I gotta be back. Hey, I decided I don idea. Yeah, I'd really love to talk to that guy. Anyway, I gotta be back. Hey, I decided I don't. Yeah. One hour later, I've decided I don't anymore. It wore off. That's the half-life of the Brogan experience.

I give a good one hour. You're all in? I give a good few minutes. At the upfront and then you're like, yeah, I've had enough. Yeah, I can't wait to hear the fans' comments, the ritual comments. Yeah, we're good on this guy.

Less is more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Less is more. So anyway. Adam has a rabid, yeah, yeah. Less is more. So anyway. Adam has a rabid fan base that are very protective of him. So you're rolling the dice and taking a risk even showing up here today.

And now all my showmanship in the front and all my banter, now it's kind of like, it's kind of ricocheted back because now I'm a part of the fan club. I'm a fan club of this guy, but I mean, you're awesome. I think you're awesome. I think you're awesome. I'm a fan of yours. Well, and for those, you're awesome. I think you're awesome. I think you're awesome. I'm a fan of yours.

Well, and for those things, thank you. I think you're laugh out loud funny. How about that? I think we laugh when we talk on the phone. That's a thing. Should we just go right into the therapy now? Yeah. Let's do it. I think we should do that, right?

This is off to a good start, but I will moderate the commencement of this relationship. I think we have to- He knows therapy. We have to traverse a few rocky shoals along the way. Given that Adam does have a rabid fan base and that people are very protective of him. I'm here to say that Adam's job is very secure. I'm unclear on how I feel about you being here today,

but I'm pro you guys getting in a room together to hash it out. This is a step. So should we start with resentments and fears? Yes, let's do that. And do an inventory? Yeah. Adam. I go first?

Yep. I resent that I was managed to trace back because as many people who have defended me, there have been stone throwers who have come at me and blamed me for being a part of the show and turning it into something it wasn't. And I've learned that you were behind it all. This is a bot, like a bot farm

that Brogan deployed to attack you? From his co-working space. Totally, yeah, totally. It all tracks back to the grain exchange. Yeah, totally. You being the one guy sitting in the middle of this giant room riding a skateboard around. Pulling levers.

Controlling a farm of Russian bot trolls. Prove he doesn't know Vlad Putin. I can't. Right. So that's tough. a farm of Russian bot trolls. Prove he doesn't know Vlad Putin. I can't. So that's tough. So that's a resentment. I'm willing to, so that's it. And my biggest fear is you're younger,

better looking and more popular than me. Okay, good. That feels good. Not much younger, taller, I'll take taller. I'll take taller. And better on all board sports. Got it. And basically take taller. Yeah, and taller. I'll take taller. And better on all board sports. Got it. And basically all sports.

Okay, got it. Yeah, got it. And to be fair, there's a little audacity with the kind of tenor with which you, like a bull in a China shop, just like bullied your way into this whole situation. Absolutely, it's very unfair, but it's very like me. There was a moment where I thought,

I could be tossed asunder. No. Absolutely, it's very unfair, but it's very like me. There was a moment where I thought, I could be tossed asunder. No, not really. I thought like, well, he does have, a certain charisma about him. Should we create a little context in case somebody is brand new to this whole thing and doesn't know what we're talking about? Yes, I think that would be smart.

Do you wanna try to recap it? Yeah, so I think in 2000, so in the spring, late winter, early spring, you and the crew came to Minneapolis. You were sitting down with civic leaders. And I think the roll on wasn't new, but it was kind of like catching a stride. But that trip was at your invitation.

Right, so because I was connected to, I am connected to Jacob Frye, the recently reelected mayor of Minneapolis. Oh, look at that. There you go. First name drop. That name drop. But this, well actually the second,

cause you dropped Zuckerberg and Jacob Frye. But you did it subtle. It was, the first one was subtle. Right, but if it's Zuckerberg, I kind of brought him in. Yeah, so anyway, keep track. So that's two. Yeah. And then,

but I think I hit you up about the Minneapolis experience and then, and you thought it was a pretty good idea. You pressed go pretty quickly, got your whole team in. Yeah. Which was kind of new to mobilize for y'all. And then I had been, with all that was going on in 2020, I was doing a little bit of time away from podcasts in general,

but right around when you and I reconnected, and I would say you and I exchanged short films, like maybe once a month during that era, it's more now. I was like, come to Minneapolis, do some stuff. When you count the short films, do you just count the total number or do you count the number you get back? Right, it's a harvest, right?

Like if you say we've exchanged 50 short films, is that 20, 40 were yours. Totally, 100%, 100%. Yeah. I think a short film experience is a trade one in one. Yeah, I agree. So 50 would be a hundred films. Based on the frequency and volume of short films

that I know I'm on the receiving end of and I know Adam is, my estimation is that you leave your house in the morning, you ride your bike to the grain exchange co-working space, wherein you spend the next six to eight hours sending people short films and basically videoing yourself skateboarding around and then you go home.

That is not completely right, but you're close. Yeah, I mean the short film, and that dates back to other stuff of like, that's my exchange. So those work again, we're talking to people who are just tuning in. Short films is just texting a video saying, where you're showing your scene, whatever.

And that was a kind of a favorite way to get it. You're very good at it, by the way. Thank you. And you've gotten strong too. Thank you. This Adam Skolnick short film is, and not that you're, I don't wanna box you in with the style but recent genre coming from your phone is

almost always there's music. Usually a child named Zuma in your arms or within reach. There's slow dancing, straight facing into the camera. Duck face, duck face. Almost, and I wanna say regularly the last half dozen finish with a cameo of a pot of oatmeal on the stove top, which I think, I mean, I'm writing letters

and using a typewriter, but like the stove top oatmeal, I haven't seen in a while. I am a six star stove top oatmeal chef approved. And what are you going in? Well, we can do that another time. So, okay, so keep it moving forward. Keep it moving. So show notes, I'll have recipes for y'all.

So when you booked the trip, I think I was like, oh man, I should catch up on some rich roll. And I listened to whatever guests you'd had at the time, but I got into the roll on. Yes. So there's a lot of jokes that'll be said at this table, but I'm like a fan of the roll on. And not knowing much, I think,

because I wanted to bro out with you and I basically love the show. I was like, I just kind of off the cuff was like, on the air during our podcast in Minneapolis, I think, I said, I want that guy's job. And we both laughed about it. And then like, it didn't go well because you have so many fans.

The roots of this go back a little bit further because we did that live show in Los Angeles. And that was the pilot to what we were intending to be this multi-city tour. So I was gonna take the podcast on the road. And I was like, I need kind of like a high energy MC dude to like get, yeah, hype man to get the crowd up on its feet and all that.

And I thought of you immediately. I was like, oh, Brogan, I should take Brogan on the road. He'd be, that's like perfect for what he does. So we had talked about trying to find a way to work you into that. So I think that was the original seed that was planted that gave you the gumption to think like, I'm gonna exploit this.

I'm gonna sneak in. I'm gonna find some backdoor way to like get in on this. Because I'm kind of a low energy hype man. I'm not a high energy hype man. I'm not like- But it's all hype men. But I am a hype man. No, you are a hype man.

I'm a hype man. And the reason your job is secure, just to like cut to the finish line here, is Adam fires on all cylinders because he can bring the funny, but he also has the journalism background. He's got the environmentalism background. He's a guy who is, you know, studied in words.

Not that you're not Brogan, but he's multidisciplinary. And, you know, sort of free diving fetish aside, it works pretty well. Yeah, that's swim snorkel. The fact is- It's odd stroke. One thing that this gentleman does really well- And he has competed in swim run, which you have not.

I have done it, Casco Bay. Oh, you did? Let's go. We'll get there in a second. But I will say one thing that I've noticed about you down the roll on, now it's like a compliment, storm we're about to have. This'll be over soon. Is that you both know the things you love

and that you continue to touch on mostly every show, but then you also joke about it. Yes. Which I think is like missing in the world is like the passionate kind of dorky things. Everyone has their thing. Yeah. And they wanna drive it into every conversation,

swim, run, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever these things are. Sharks. But I appreciate, swim, run, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever these things are. Sharks. But I appreciate, and you do this too, when then you kind of step across the street and like make fun of it a little bit. Have a little self-awareness. Yeah.

Anyway, I think that's one of the brilliant parts of roll on, because you can say, all right, I'm gonna do this swim run thing. I can't help it. Here we go. And you're like, no, don't do it. And you're like, you make the joke and then you do it.

So it's like, that's to me, that frame up is beautiful of like, I can't do it. And you're like, you make the joke and then you do it. Right. So it's like, that's to me, that frame up is beautiful of like, I can't help it. I'm obsessed with this dorky thing. And here I gotta give you an update. If you swim and run as poorly as I do, you can't take yourself seriously when you do it, but you can still love to do it. Right.

And you still care about doing it. Right. And so I have, the best part of me being on this show has been the motivation from Rich to actually take it even more strategically, which is a lot of fun. I mean, it's great to be sitting down with you guys. I mean, you guys are real athletes.

I'm like the every man. That's the other thing I think I can bring is the every man kind of like, you guys are real athletes, like college D1 athletes. I am, what's the opposite of that? I don't know. A non D1 athlete. I think at the shared age and stage we're all in in life,

I think we're all just trying to put it out there every day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But still, but I think it's easy to put, like when you see someone on that, so I'm kind of the every man who's just doing the best he can. And so I think there's that too. So, yeah So yeah.

Well, just to plant a quick flag at this interim stage in our therapy session, I would say that despite the fact that Brogan kind of flew here just to trample on the viceroy's kingdom a little bit and like, you know, kind of pee on the fire hydrant. Knock on the door. Yeah, that this therapy session is going quite well.

I think so. Right? I think so. I wish I had an iPad. Everyone seems to have an iPad. We got to throw a wrench in it a little well. I think so. Right? I think so. I wish I had an iPad. Everyone seems to have an iPad. We gotta throw a wrench in it a little bit. It gets complicated. Oh my God.

Oh no. Are we gonna go there? Am I gonna get beat up? No, maybe. I'm fine with that. We'll see. It's two on one. I mean, you're tall, but like two guys on one.

Look, get Dan Drake ready. So here's the thing. We have to do it. Dan Drake will fight by your side. Film it. Somebody's gotta film it. So it's a love session right now. We've established that Brogan has some kind of designs

on working his way into this show and you've been successful. Here I sit. You're here right now. So who's winning? By sheer force of will. Even though you guys are- You still wanna win.

You still wanna win. It's not about winning. You have to win. I'm reluctantly giving you an audience, but here's the thing. We have joked about you sort of making inroads on Adam's fiefdom. That's one thing.

It's all fun and games. It's all my fiefdom. It goes from here to here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I get these little notches right here. But an invisible character on Roll-On in a recurring fashion is Adam's son Zuma. He's a recurring character.

Yeah, he is a recurring character. There's a lot of love for Zuma out there. It's such a broken. Yeah, I guess we just had a daughter. One. What is your daughter's name? Her middle name? What is your daughter's name? Her middle name? What is your daughter's name?

Dramatic pause. We named our daughter Zuma. And my wife, Goldie Graham, and I have this back and forth about names. She comes home from a walk, pregnant walk. She's been doing some podcasting. She walks in the house and says, not even, hey, I'm home.

She goes, what do you think about the name Zuma? And because I'm a fan of Rich Roll and the roll on and Adam Skolnick, I knew where she had found it. The thing is, I like the name. Yes. And so I didn't want it. She doesn't know about this posse or my attempt to join the band. So I didn't give her the name. Yes. And so I didn't want it. She doesn't know about this posse or my attempt to join the band.

So she didn't, so I didn't give her the backstory. And I was just like, I love it. And like, I think a lot of folks do when they get ready to have kids, you let it, you play with the name for a week. Yes. And then it maybe doesn't make the top of the list and goes away.

And it stayed on the top of the list. So I reached out to Rich and I was like, dude, this is happening. And then I think a few, maybe like a month later, I almost asked for like name. A month later? I think so. Oh, wow.

You let that simmer for a month before you picked up. Mr. I send out short films to people every 10 seconds. This is an important thing. This is beyond short. You sit on this for a month. Because I thought it could fade and it would be a non-story. He wanted Goldie to come up with some other names perhaps.

So he didn't have to make that call. Or I kind of liked the call of this is happening rather than like, or thinking about. So it's like a big outreach. And Zuma, our little boy who's three and a half, his name is Lumi. And people want to know what the significance is

or where you got it. It's like, in our household, we just pick names that have a sound and energy to them. Even if we have to steal them from podcast hosts. Occasional podcast hosts. Yeah, like Robin. You're like Robin to the Batman. Yeah, I'll take it.

Hey, I gotta tell a Robin story. Look at this. I was talking to Skull Nick like a few weeks ago on the phone. And I had this shark story that I had to tell him. And I was really proud of it. Cause I was in the water and I saw a shark. Changing the subject.

I know. We'll get back to it. I told him about this freaking story. And I don't know if you remember this. Do you know this? I don't know. I've had paddle out in Florida and there was a shark right next to me.

No, I didn't know that. I told you this. Anyway, well, maybe you weren't listening because I told you the story and I was like, I drew it way out. I thought you were kidding. No Anyway, well, maybe you weren't listening because I told you the story and I was like, I drew it way out. I thought you were kidding. No, I was serious. Okay.

And it was right next to me in the water. I looked at the old guys next to me and they were so unalarmed. They were just very casual about it. And I think it was like a five or six foot shark. Okay. And it was like my most epic adventure surf story ever. And I told you on the phone and you were like,

what kind of shark was it? Like you asked like the wrong questions to like take the energy out of it. And I was like, damn. And I saw you on the phone and you were like, what kind of shark was it? Like you asked like the wrong questions to like take the energy out of it. And I was like, damn. And I saw your footage. And so I was like, you just said the kind thing about us being athletes. Yeah. I'm not swimming with sharks.

I think you're out of your mind. Yeah. But you have living in San Diego, surfing every day. Yeah. But this was like a reef shark and we framed that up. And then I was like, which kind are you with? And you swim with white sharks. Yeah. So that's a different thing.

Well, I've been different kinds of sharks over time. But yeah, yeah, yeah. But you're right about that. But back to the Zoom thing, so you call me up. Yes, I call you up and I was like, look, we're doing this name thing. Did you call or text? I think you called, right?

I think it was like a good old fashioned telephone call. That's a call. Yeah, yeah telephone call. That's a call. That's a call subject. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't text that. You're not even FaceTiming. You're like trying to lock in. No asynchronous communication.

I can't look him in the eye when I say this. Did you find a rotary phone? Yeah, I did. And then the one's really close. That's nine. Nine. Yeah. And I was like, I was like,

and I told Adam the story, what I just told you, Goldie comes back from the walk. She says, what do you think? And it was like, and he was so nice and laughed and like, it was like, oh, do it, do it. Like I didn't even ask him and he's like, do it, do it. And so I was like, and so then we played, I played up this joke of, I was,

you didn't have to respond, but you had some time to give me your blessing. Right. I think. Well, I think the way I looked at it was, it's already done. Like if you wouldn't have called me if Goldie hadn't already decided.

Totally. Yeah, exactly. But how did that land? Well, I thought it was funny, but it landed obviously differently for me than for April. Right. Right. But in the end, it's like, I come from the field of great creative abundance

and nobody owns anything and it's great. I mean, the world, here's how I say it. The world needs more Zuma's. That's exactly what you said on the phone. Yeah. And you said it on a short film as well. Yeah. The world needs more Zuma's. It's true. The world needs more Zoomers. It's true.

The world needs more Zoomers. The world needs more Zoomers. High-minded, enlightened response. Given the backdrop of this dude's questionable motives. I want his job, didn't get his job. I guess I'll take his kid's name. I think that there's like- And here you are anyway.

I think there might be- Where does it end? I still want his job. How far are we taking this? Yeah, what does your podcast do? What does your podcast do? I think there's like a term for like- What does your Zuma do?

Nothing, just poops and diapers and keeps us up all night. How's the diaper game? How's your diaper game? Did you get it back? Yep. Was it right like that or did it take a minute? Kinda. Yeah.

The diapers aren't that hard. Yeah, the diapers aren't that hard. It's like one thing that dads should just do all diapers. If you're gonna have a baby, if you're thinking about having kids, you don't have any, someone told me just try and change every diaper. Just cause like that's a way to contribute. Like just do everyone.

But you're so competitive. I bet you- Make sure you're talking into the mic, dude. Get out of the way. Get out of the way, woman. You know, with a three and a half year old, you think that you just recently had a baby, but you're kind of out of practice.

So Zuma will wake up at kind of all the hours all night. And you're like smelling a butt of a tiny little peanut of a kid. The kid is the size of my running shoe, it's cool. That's cool. And she's really cute and sleeps in the carrier. And I walk around my neighborhood in Minnesota. It's like, it's the best.

And so. I've seen some of the neighbors you have there. Oh yeah. No nonsense lawns. Their lawn of the neighbors you have there. Oh yeah. No nonsense lawns. Their lawns are nice. Their lawns are nice. And then there's a coin flip to be a homeowner in my neighborhood of like,

are you the kind of guy, person, in my case, guy, that is doing his own lawn work? Or are you paying to have someone else do it? I think you're doing your own. That's what I think. I think you gotta do your own. Yeah. And then there goes your weekend. I don what I think. I think you gotta do your own. Yeah. And then there goes your weekend.

I don't know. And my lawn looks really average. So I don't know. I don't know what the answer is, but I'm raking a lot and mowing and it's just terrible. Zuma's I actually mowed the lawn. I made you both a short film, which I'll send you today.

A week or two ago with Zuma on mowing the lawn with one arm and making a short film that says, yo, I'm out. The world needs more Zuma's Rich. Multi-talented dadding. It's a good thing. Well, on the subject of the world needing more Zuma's. At some point, I suspect Zuma A will meet Zuma B and what happens-

Zuma boy meets Zuma girl. Yeah, what happens when Zuma boy meets Zuma girl and love flourishes? That, you know, we start planning the wedding, I girl. Yeah, what happens when Zuma boy meets Zuma girl and love flourishes? That, you know, we start planning the wedding, I guess. Yeah. The father of your bride. You're paying. So you do the night before, you do the rehearsal dinner.

I'm gonna really keep that low budget though. Yeah, for the environment. And I'll dance with the daughter and I'll cry a lot, walk her down the aisle. I mean, I, getting ready to come here and have this in-person Zuma conversation, debunking some of the, I want your job still kind of stuff.

Right. I can I do the gift thing? Sure. Oh yeah. Yeah. I had a friend of mine, who's an artist in San Diego commission, a couple of handmade shirts that say Zuma's dad. That's great. So I wanna give it to you right now.

All right. And you don't have to put it on, does he? I'll put it on. Yeah, I think you should put it on. You have to put it on, like he? I'll put it on. Yeah, I think you should put it on. You have to put it on, like I said. Yeah. And if the first one doesn't fit you, you can have the other one.

And I'll put mine on too. Let's put them both on. Okay, cool. Let's do it. Let me get them. So why don't we take a quick break while you guys do that and we'll be- Exchange jerseys.

Right back. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming

and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care, especially because unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices. It's a real problem. A problem I'm now happy and proud to share has been solved by the people at recovery.com who created an online support portal designed to guide, to support, and empower you to find the ideal level of care tailored to your personal needs. They've partnered with the best global behavioral health providers

to cover the full spectrum of behavioral health disorders, including substance use disorders, depression, anxiety, eating disorders, gambling addictions, and more. Navigating their site is simple. Search by insurance coverage, location, treatment type, you name it. Plus, you can read reviews from former patients to help you decide. Whether you're a busy exec, a parent of a struggling teen, or battling addiction yourself, I feel you. I empathize with you. I really do. And they have treatment options for you.

Life in recovery is wonderful, and recovery.com is your partner in starting that journey. When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment.

I've, in turn, helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care. Especially because, unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices. It's a real problem. A problem I'm now happy and proud to share has been solved by the people at recovery.com who created an online support portal designed to guide, to support, and empower you to find the ideal level of care tailored to your personal needs. They've partnered with the best global behavioral health providers to cover the full spectrum of behavioral health disorders, including substance use disorders, depression, anxiety, eating disorders, gambling addictions, and more. Navigating their

site is simple. Search by insurance coverage, location, treatment type, you name it. Plus, you can read reviews from former patients to help you decide. Whether you're a busy exec, a parent of a struggling teen, or battling addiction yourself, I feel you. I empathize with you. I really do. And they have treatment options for you. Life in recovery is wonderful, and recovery.com is your partner in starting that journey. When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. Now we're back. Zoom is dead. Dude. That's an incredible shirt. It's a great shirt. For people that aren't watching on YouTube,

it's a hand sewn, I don't know what you would call it. Pastiche. I'm a little worried that it's not up to code for my Ben and Jerry shift, because I just got hired back. It has a definite Ben and Jerry's vibe to it though. Yeah, I mean, she's doing upcycled fabrics and kind of vintage stuff.

And she's just a crafty one woman army. Her name's Dawn, Dawn by the Bay. Dawn by the Bay. She makes shirts. Thank you, Brogan. Brogan's wearing a hoodie. Let me see the back of that hoodie. Yeah, Zuma's dad, all hand embroidered.

Zuma's, actually we could start like a group, like we should see how many Zuma's dads are out there. Who's Gwen Stefani's- Baby daddy. I don't know the answer to that. It's not Blake. Right. So, but we should invite Blake. Her kid's called Zuma also?

Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. So she has a, what, a seven year old or something? I don't even know the age. Named Zuma. Zuma. That's how, so Goldie- With Gavin Rossdale? So there's two calls, right? You called me and then you called me with Goldie.

Yeah. And Goldie said, where then you called me with Goldie. Yeah. And Goldie said, where'd you get the name? Right. Did you get it from Gwen or something like that? Right. And I said, no, we got it. We were married. I think your audience knows we were married at Point Dume.

We were looking at different names. Zuma means, or we researched it, Zuma is abundance in Chumash, which were the native indigenous people to Malibu from Point Doom up towards Santa Barbara. Point Doom was sacred in that culture. And so we kind of borrowed that. And then we borrowed some middle names

from different places that were meaningful to us. So I explained that to you guys, right? Yeah. And here we are. Zuma's dad. Yeah. Well, I've done this with Rich over the years and you and I have exchanged a little bit

over the last month. My Zuma has been alive for a month, but like the, you know, trading dad advice, right, it's a real thing. I think more dudes need to be out there just talking about the good, bad and the ugly because the good stuff is really, really great. And I think that that's kind of like a missing thing.

So we've had those conversations. We've had those conversations. And I think that stuff's really powerful like a missing thing. So we've had those conversations. We've had those conversations. And I think that stuff's really powerful, especially for dads that are on the beginning of the journey when it's not, it's not great. It's not super. I've got a buddy right now who's like in the first, he's like six weeks in and you know, he's starting like,

it's like you see, like, listen, he's older too. So he didn't have these illusions of how it was supposed to be. But at the same time, it's like coming to terms with what your life is and where it exists in the nature of this 24 hour day, which part of where does your life fit in that 24 hour day is a matrix, right?

And it changes and it's always shifting. I mean, for me, like, I'm so happy to have the time change back to like, I used to love daylight savings time, but now like during daylight savings hours, I haven't been outside in the night more than like two or three times. I haven't seen the sun go down, you know? Cause that's bedtime period, you know?

And now I'm happy it's getting dark at like 4.50 in the afternoon, because that means I get to be outside when it's night. It's not like I was a huge night owl all my life, but for a good chunk, I definitely loved being out at night. And I loved full moon hikes and things like that. And some of that has been, was the first year, first, especially the first six, nine months,

that's off the table. You can't even really figure it out. And so to me, what you get back, you win back the dons, right? So you're up early, especially I do the breakfast disco with him and I don't have the nights, but I get the dons. And so you, and that's when I used to admire, like seeing Rich, like do his stories,

like getting his coffee going at like before five. And I'm like, and I would be getting up at eight and like, who are these motherfuckers that are running at five in the morning? Like, why am I so late? And then I think I listen to- Necessity dictates that when you have kids. Right.

You gotta get organized. You find where your life exists, right? You find the margin. The margin. You still have. The margin. And you can't give in to, I don't have. You can't examine your life in the prism

of what you used to have. Totally. You have to accept life and find your space to still, you know, do your thing in a way that's good for everybody. So it's a challenge, but it's fun in that regard. And you know, you just got to commit to the choice you've already made, basically. The idea of a newborn for me,

using that margins idea is like retired folks golf all day, they can hang out, go to the pool. Huge margins, almost completely margins, right? Margin, yeah, all margin. Whereas mine is thin or non-existent or when it's alive or around inside a 24 hour period, it is shifty, it is a moving target. It could just pop up out of nowhere or it could be canceled.

So as someone who moves and needs to be out in the world, in Minneapolis, you saw firsthand, like communicating with people, like the banter, the interactions, like and sport and training and yoga. So like that has been a very selfish thing that dads shouldn't complain about, but is real. Like when you start losing yourself in some of that stuff.

So I've told both of you, but like falling into a new yoga practice has been huge because you can unroll that mat at two in the morning, two in the afternoon, whatever. And it's a little bit of escapism in a way that I think is actually healthy. Yeah. Like, I don't understand people who are against escapism.

Have you seen what's going on in the world? It's just a matter of what's your escape and is it productive? Right. I think we've kind of teed off into this big topic issue that we wanted to talk about, which is, you know, being a dad and what does that mean? I had put all this other stuff in the outline that I wanted to talk about, but is, you know, being a dad and what does that mean? I had put all this other stuff in the outline

that I wanted to talk about, but since we're kind of going there, we should probably just do it now. But I think it would be good to just put a cap on the therapy session aspect of this. And I feel like you guys are bro-ing out and it's all good. There's nothing but love here. Thank you.

And respect. Thank you. And respect. Thank you. Can you put another hand on top? Despite the bum rush. I think this is all for the best. Thank you, Rich. It was a shock. It was a shock to see the white tiger in the space.

Yeah, but look at you. You got new clothes out of it. You got a T out of it. Your job is super secure. A small price to pay for him absconding with your son's name and appropriating it for his own purposes. Can't get the job.

That was a Nombre appropriation, brah. Yeah. It's also cool to hear Rich Roll tell like a billion fans and listeners like his job is secure. He said it a million times. That's cool. That's cool, man. Yeah, just so we're totally clear

for all the Skolnickites out there. Here we go. Adam's job is very secure. Let's talk about ads. Yeah. Ads. I think there's a little opportunity here. Is that?

I have not been moving product. I have not been moving product. Just give me some discount codes and I am just ha, ha, ha. When we're done today, we're gonna bank a bunch of ads. Yeah, oh, you wanna know about macro bars? Take this discount code, call me later.

Right, all right, I'm taking control of this. Sorry, sorry. We're gonna switch gears. I do have a couple announcements I need to make. The first of which is, I wanna let everyone know that we're putting together, we're compiling this end of the year listener stories, very special afterschool special version of the podcast. I love that.

Which is great. Yeah, so what we're doing is we're kind of soliciting all of you guys out there, the listeners, to share your personal story of how this show has impacted you, how it's benefited you, how it has reoriented your personal views or your worldview, how it's inspired you to kind of reframe your vision of family,

which we're gonna talk more about today, work, sense of self, all of that stuff, how it has acted as an agent of change in your own personal evolution. So if you have been impacted and you're willing to share, it would mean a lot if you could give us a call at 805-421-0057 and just kind of lay it all out in a long voicemail, your journey of transformation, how the podcast and all of the guests that we've had on have inspired you, what you've learned, what you've practiced, what you've implemented or shared with

others along the way. And we're gonna take all that and we're gonna create something really cool with it. So again, 805-421-0057. Brogan, I expect you to leave a voicemail. I've been leaving voicemails. Yeah, you've been doing that for a while. I try to sneak on the rich role. The second thing is-

Rich, I'd like to just come right out and say I'm available to help with the listener story compilation. Yeah, okay. And I'm also available. You can get with Dan Drake and with Blake and Jason. I can help conduct some interview. Oh, that would be good. Go all in like, ooh, that's a good one.

I'm gonna call that guy and go deeper and press him or her. Yes. Maybe we could do that. Yeah, that'd be good. And if there's a way we could bring ads into this, that'd be cool. Yeah, we'll bring Brogan in as the ad guy.

Sounds like a good place for some ads, guys. Can we deep fake Brogan or do I have to work with the actual Brogan? Guys? I don't know, he knows Zuckerberg, so back to the metaverse. Yeah, I'll be foiling with Zuck. I'm gonna be foiling with the deep, deep fake Zoc,

not real Zoc. A comment about that in a second, but first my second announcement, I wanna let everyone know that I'm gonna be speaking at the upcoming Planted Expo in Vancouver on November 20th and 21st. It's looking to be a super cool event. Canada's largest plant-based event

with tons of great speakers. My boy, John Lewis, the Badass Vegan is gonna be there. Tons of exhibitors, attendees. There's also this kind of intimate dinner with me on the evening of November 20th. I think we're gonna do some kind of live podcast around that as well. So if you're in Vancouver or nearby

or willing to travel there, I look forward to seeing you and you can learn more and get your tickets at plantedlife.com. I'm available to help carry your bags that evening. You wanna do that? Second thing is on the subject of foiling in Zuckerberg. Adam and I, since it's been a while since we've done the roll on, people are like, what happened?

About a month, right? Yeah, maybe like six weeks, I think. Six weeks, September 30th, right? I think, yeah, that was the last time that we've done this. So a ton of stuff what happened. About a month, right? Yeah, maybe like six weeks, I think. A lot. Six weeks, September 30th, right? I think, yeah, that was the last time that we've done this. So a ton of stuff has happened. Too many things to recap, but one thing that we got to talk about is that Adam and I both got invited to go to Surf Ranch.

Yes. Up in Central California, which is Kelly Slater's epic wave pool. And it was an event that was put together by Red Bull Media. They invited all these cool people to go and spend the day. And it was a pretty amazing experience to be up there because we were surrounded by all these pro surfers. Like pro surfers, when they get the nod, like,

hey, come out to the surf ranch, they show up. Because the wave is insane and it's the same every time. And they can work on very specific things that they're working on. So Adam and I being like the most mediocre surfers ever. That's being kind. That's being very kind in my stead. We get there and they go through

this whole instructional thing. And then there's heats, like you go out for an hour, you come back and then another heat goes out of like eight people. And originally I thought my heat wasn't gonna be until like 11 a.m. or something like that. And then it's like 6.45 and they're like, Oh Rich, you're going in seven, you're the first heat.

And like, I've never been in a wave pool. Like I haven't surfed in like a decade, you know? And they're putting me out there with like Kai Lenny and like these other guys and I'm freaking out, like thinking I'm gonna get in their way, I'm gonna screw them up and all that kind of stuff. I was like almost out of panic attack. What am I doing here?

But it ended up being like an incredible experience just to like hang out with all these people and talk story. I loved it. What was your experience? Wow, it's same, like I haven't been on a board in over a decade and I'm comfortable swimming around in the ocean and it would have been comfortable even at that size. It's fast, it's a fast wave.

It's a very fast wave. But like being put on this big board and feeling very clumsy, I was definitely afraid I was gonna get in someone's way and like hurt people. And then after that, I was like also afraid to surf in front of these wonderful surfers. Yeah, it's like, I thought they would put guys like us

all out in the same heat. Like why are they mixing this up with the real guys? The rookie class, go out there, hurt each other. But I mean, it was also really cool to be able to see Kai like blazing down and he did a front flip. He literally did a 360 right in front of me. Like did a flip off the lip of the wave. I know.

And Sky Brown, 13 year old skateboarding medalist. And she shredded. So she, I didn't know who she was and she was in my heat. And Raymonda, Raymonda. Raymana. Raymana. Sorry, I always get his name wrong. Who's like an epic waterman is out there cruising around on a jet ski to like make sure everyone's cool

and helping out the newbies like Adam and I. And I was paddling right next to her and he didn't know who she was either. And he's like, she's 13, right? She's this little girl with a big smile. And he's like, hey, do you know how to surf? Like, what's your deal? Like, are you okay?

And she's like, well, I'm okay or whatever. She picks up a wave and just shreds it. Like I've never seen in my life. She's nuts. And then I find out it's not her best sport. No, it's her second, third thing. She literally won a bronze medal in Tokyo in skateboarding. And she's 13.

Like this girl is the future of adventure sports. I met her in Minneapolis when we first moved in 2019, Minneapolis was home for a lot of years in a row of the X games, summer games. She was there, you know, two years ago, 11 years old and tiny and just incredibly talented. And we had a really cute moment where I was babysitting this kid,

kind of like a nephew type kid in my life. And he kind of whispered, he kind of elbowed me. He's like, there she is, that's her. And I did like kind of the dorky uncle thing of like, let's go meet her. And that like, he was mortified, but like I set him up and made him take the picture. And then he has just been parading this photo ever since.

It's like, it's his idol. She's his idol. It's really beautiful. For good reason, Matt. She is, she's amazing. Absolutely. And Raymana Van Bastola Yeah, she is. She's amazing. Absolutely. And Raymana Van Bastolaire, I think is his last name.

He is, he's basically the mayor of Chopo. You know, he like is the guy there and he's a Tahitian surf legend. And he is the head of the safety crew. And so I think he must've been tapped by Kelly or someone to like come and actually run. So he runs the pool. When he's out there, he's calling the waves.

He's calling positions for all the safety guys, which are all great surfers in their own right. And then he's helping people like Sky get barreled, figuring them out. He's making sure everyone's getting in the right place. They're getting what they need. And then he's literally picking up the likes of me and Rich and making sure we get a wave.

And so like helping us get up and giving us tips. Yeah, my first time out, he's like, jump on the back of the jet ski with your board. And like the complexity of the situation just went through. I'm like, I'm supposed to jump off a jet ski onto the board, onto the wave. Like it's hard enough just to catch it for me. Did you ride waves?

Yeah. Yeah, so they sent us all this video cause they video everything. And it's like a middle-aged guy riding a gigantic board in a very mediocre way. And I was like, that's cool. No one really needs to see that though. That accidentally disappeared. And that would have been better than what I have.

But yeah, I mean, we managed it. In a beautiful kind of full circle, kind of reassess your life kind of way though. Like, first of all, just to be invited there was like incredible. Like, cause you can't just go there. Like, you know, it's, I think it's 50,000 a day to rent the place

and it's usually corporate events and stuff like that. And it's booked out like years in advance. It's very special to even have that experience. So we were incredibly privileged to have that. But Raymana goes way back with my guy, Mike Field, who is an epic Hawaii waterman who has been my swim crew captain for all of the Ultramans that I've done.

So every time I go to Hawaii, I hook up with him and he's the guy who's guided me through those races. And Mike and Raymana are super close. And in addition to that, another guy who was on this trip was my friend, Chris Outweiler, who runs a production company here in LA called Dirty Robber. And he works with, he does a lot of Red Bull media stuff. But he was on my crew for my first Ultraman.

Like we're really good friends in LA. So to like, and I didn't know that he was going. And I hadn't, it's like, I don't see him that often. Like I hadn't seen him in a long time. And we got to like ride waves together and talk about how our lives have grown and changed since that experience in 2008 that changed my life.

And it was just really cool. That's awesome. Yeah. And you know, the, to put a cap on the whole Ramona thing, I just found it, his story really captivating and loved hanging out with him and the surf ranch. Also what's interesting about it is it really is this five-star kind of experience, but it's in the middle of like- Right, we gotta's interesting about it is it really is this five star kind of experience,

but it's in the middle of like- Right, we gotta talk about where it is. Yeah, it's in the middle. It's like 45 minutes from Fresno or something like that or 40 miles from Fresno. Anybody who's driven the five freeway from LA to San Francisco knows how desolate it gets in the middle of that section.

So imagine you're in the most desolate center of that whole experience. And then you exit the five freeway and then go inland. You go east for another 35 minutes or so. And there's nothing there except bright. Like it was dark when I was driving in the night before. And suddenly like in the middle of like farmland, there's this huge casino and you go in there and it's the most like depressing,

breaking bad situation you've ever seen. But that's the only hotel. So that's where all the surfers stay. That's where everyone stays. There was like kind of, everyone was at the bar, like kind of having food and getting to know each other the night before. And it was just bizarre, right?

But it's like five minutes from the ranch and you go to the ranch in the morning. Right, right, right. I was reading a pastoral song at that time. So it's like all minutes from the ranch and you go to the ranch in the morning. Right, right, right. I was reading a pastoral song at that time. So it's like all the breakdown of what's happened in terms of industrial agriculture. And you've talked about regenerative agriculture on your show many times.

And it shows you the opposite of that. Like the reason regenerative agriculture needs to work is that when industrial agriculture takes over an area, it's bigger is the only way to succeed. And so it crowds out all the people. And so there's no jobs there really. It's not like you don't need as many farmhands, you know, it's all mechanized and the towns are crumbling. And so you go, I took a run around just to see it and experience it. And then to go to, you know, at the time I was like, why is the surf ranch out here?

But then going and experiencing, I'm glad the surf ranch is there because it gives a lot of people, a lot of people are having the same experience that we had. It's like, wow, there's something not working. There's something about our culture that's profoundly not working and you do see it there. And so to me, you could look at that,

maybe you don't wanna see that, but I actually think when you get those glimpses that you're not expecting, it's really could be really important. And so I thought that was interesting, an interesting caveat to that. And then the other thing is Rayman has said, he surfs with all the big hitters that come through.

So he has surfed many times with Zuckerberg. Right, so that's why we're teeing it up. We're bringing it back to Zuckerberg and foiling because Zuckerberg will rent it out for the day and like fly in. There's like a base nearby, right? I think you can fly your private jet or whatever in. And he comes in in the morning with his wife

and they just take it over for the whole day and then fly back home. And Raymana says he's quite good, which is really upsetting to hear. Right. I did not like it. Yeah, you don't want that. You don't want that. You want this whole story about a guy dropping 50K

once a week and he sucks. Well, he probably wasn't good at first, but if you can fly up to Surf Ranch and just get unlimited waves for an entire day, you're gonna, the learning curve gets shrunk considerably. Welcome back, Mark. How was the weekend? Okay, here it is again.

We'll just leave it on. Set it at six feet, have at it. Yeah, and the way the wave works, it's, I mean, it is a genius feat of engineering because there's literally this locomotive engine that pushes this wall of water like back and forth and it goes back and forth. So the waves go both ways and they figured out

how to dissipate the water so that it calms down super quickly in between waves in a way that is remarkable. Oh, that's cool. And the wave is just unbelievable. Yeah, it's fast and we were even paddling into like the contest waves at one point they had us doing. But you had, didn't you come out of there with like a bruised rib?

I got, I had like fin slices on both legs. I had like a fracture, I'm still dealing with it. I like cracked a rib. You did, right? Which I can like run and swim and it doesn't really bother me. But something about surfing and pushing up on the board was like, yeah, it was really.

And if you're out of the water for a while, when you get back on and paddle, you're gonna have those- I mean, I surfed a lot in college and I literally felt like I'd never surfed in my life. And then just like on a technical thing, did you have any issues with the swim snorkel mask while you're catching waves?

I didn't even bring it. Oh, no way. I didn't bring it. I don't know why. That would have been. Well, I wanted to swim in there, but I didn't wanna get in the way, no way. I didn't bring it. I don't know why. That would have been. Well, I wanted to swim in there, but I didn't wanna get in the way. Like I wanted to be polite.

Like it's not about me swimming in your wave pool. Hey, can you shut the waves off? I gotta get some meters. So I just turned 55 and Adam gifted me the best birthday gift. He literally got me a snorkel mask. So this, me, all my efforts to get him off the mask. And what does he do? He's trying to get him off the mask. And what does he do?

He's trying to get me on the mask. Here we go. I mean. This is happening, you have to, you just have to. Hang on, let me get something, I have something too. It's too loose right now, but you get the idea. And then, yeah, then you drop your- Can I get prescription lenses on this though?

You go right to the end of the lane, you drop your pool buoys and you're- Right, you surf with this though, right? That's the idea? Totally. I mean, here we go. Adam goes out and swims in the ocean with this on rather than swim goggles.

Well, I don't quite use that. I gave you, I got you a better one than what I use. I would only use that in a dive scenario. I wouldn't swim with that. But if you come with us back to the reef, bring that this next time and then we can dive around. You guys got iPads and glasses and goggles. I'm just going shades.

Yeah. This mask is like got its own following. I got this mask. There's a weird like cat eye thing on that. Yeah, it's like the devil mask. I got this at Sylvia Earle's dive shop. Wow. That's right. You went up to see Sylvia Earle

and she's coming on the podcast soon. Right, right, I'm excited about that. Yeah, which is gonna be amazing. And she has a dive shop in a ramshackle submarine factory. It's fucking awesome. It's in Alameda, California. And so I got a new one for me cause I got that for you and I wanted to bring it.

Good man. Well, there was a bunch of other stuff that happened, but is it all that important? I feel like we should talk about. I think we should talk about dad, dad, dad. Yeah, let's talk about that. Father's day is always just right on. When is father's day?

It's in June. It's in June, I do a countdown. I got a ticker, I have a ticker in my lawn. But in Nova Scotia, it's in November. Right, right, right, right. Nova Scotia Father's Day. Yeah, it's always Father's Day somewhere. Yeah.

Right, it's like the five o'clock. Is it though? I celebrate Icelandic Father's Day on Jan 7th. Oh, cool. Yeah. The Reykjavik. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Reykjavik Father's Day. Before we do that though,

should we have a little running news? Let's do it. Cause it was a big weekend. Huge. We had the LA marathon. We had the New York city marathon. Same day, right? And our own in-house boy, Davey Greenberg himself,

ran his first marathon. Davey. The LA marathon. Way to go. He came in wearing his finishing. Come on over here, Davey. Davey, get over here. Wearing his finishing.

You don't have to wear a mask. No, Davey. Davey, get over here. Wearing his finishing metal. You don't have to wear a mask. No, mask optional. Ran under four hours in his first marathon. Under four. After having a little bit of a janky knee that took him out of some of the training. So Davey, just give us 30 seconds. Okay, 30 seconds, go.

Yeah. It was hard. It was really fun. Did it alongside going plant-based for the first time. That's right. Yeah, really like a great test. And I feel good. I feel accomplished.

I feel like really grateful. All my friends came out. Like so many people were so supportive. We raised a bunch of money. And yeah, I can't wait for the next one. Big Sur, April 20. Right, so you get a little bit of a rest and then you're gonna hit it hard.

But you trained really hard. I feel like you trained really methodically. But what I saw was someone who was having like so much fun. Like you got, you went from nothing and then hearing Hella and getting inspired to getting pretty focused and serious pretty quickly. And it took you on like a journey.

Like you're a different guy than you were before Hella came on the podcast. I definitely, and also like, it's one of those things where people talk about like the love hate relationship with running all the time. And I don't, that wasn't my experience. I just loved it. Like, I think it's one of the most enjoyable things

I've discovered and I just have like so much fun doing it. Like it doesn't, it hurts, but like it doesn't hurt in a way that is discouraging and yeah, just like really excited to have discovered this thing. Yeah. It's cool, man. And I feel like you also used it to broaden your community. Like you got involved in all these run clubs, the Korean run club and the besties and all of that

and ended up making all these friends out of the process as well. And the Rich Roll pod. That's right. It made me think, and I should say that, in addition to you running the marathon, like Blake and Jason have been running quite a bit. Jason's on his run streak.

Jason, how many days have you? 127. 127 days of running every single day since Hella. I mean, Hella is really the catalyst here. The whole thing. I'm pretty sure. Yeah, I know. I'm pretty sure you have a big part in it too, right?

Well, I just get to host these people and then get to see the ripple effects of their message. But Jason having his run streak, and then the three of you guys ran that trail half marathon together, which like warm my heart to see you guys doing that together. Blake has been swimming. Adam, Blake and Jason are doing the Malibu half.

So it's been really cool. And it's made me think that there's gotta be a way to kind of expand the scope of this to make it kind of a more open community oriented thing. So maybe in 2022, I've always resisted this idea of like creating a group run or a run club or something like that. Cause I never know how much I, you know,

like my friends are always like, let's go running. And for me, it's always a solo thing. Like I know Brogan is like, it's all about the group and November project. And for me, it's like, I'm the lone wolf. Like I resisted, but I think in the wake of COVID and all the isolation that we've experienced. And just when I went and did the group run in Central Park

for the FAR event and all of that, like it's so much fun. And so if we can find a way to maybe create something like that here where maybe once a month we do a trail run at Chesbrough or something that's near here, you know, and make it open to people, you know, we can call it like the FAR club or something like that. It'd be cool.

That's sweet. Let's make it happen. Yeah, and you guys can, and the fact that because all you guys are running, like then far club or something like that. It'd be cool. That's sweet. Let's make it happen. Yeah, and you guys can, and the fact that because all you guys are running, like then it's not all on me. Like we can have like, you know, sergeants and generals to help manage it if I'm out of town or something. Sergeant Dave, I'm escaping.

Yeah, all right buddy, congrats man. Super proud of you. Yeah, thank all you guys. And it was cool to see Utkarsh out there too to give you a hug, right? Also in other running news, I mean, we got to mention a couple standouts from the weekend, Shalane Flanagan, friend of the pod,

ran 2.33 for her sixth consecutive marathon in six weeks. Unreal. Unbelievable, 2.33, crazy, her fastest one yet. So that's amazing. I mean, I had so much FOMO watching the New York marathon. Terrible starting line is like looking up that bridge. Yeah, there's Knox, there's Robin Arzon, there's Alexi Pappas who like another great story.

She starts with the elites, but she's had some injuries. So she's not, she wasn't in it to like, you know, hammer. She just wanted to have fun. But because she started with the elite, she had her name on the thing and the whole thing. And then she just turned it into this like 26.2 mile party where she was blowing kisses to people the whole way and just became this crazy fan favorite.

Oh man, she's so great for running. And for that event, for those of you who have run it, to be in the five boroughs and to have each of those ecosystems come to life in a different way, to see her going through those different stages. Right. And to see her fans everywhere. I know.

I mean. Her fan base is crazy. She had glitter all over herself. Of course. And like, you know, just turned it into like a performance art. Awesome. You've run New York, right?

I did New York. I've done Boston a couple of times and a handful of other ones. Yeah. Would you run in New York? I ran. Boston a couple of times and a handful of other ones. Yeah, what'd you run in New York? I ran. I'm gonna make you say it. I ran 302 in New York. Yeah, it's impressive.

I ran 302 in New York, it was my quickest one. And then maybe a race or two later, I haven't done the road thing for a while. So we did some years on the trail and then yeah, I'm doing a lot of yoga, man. But when I see, I mean, knowing what you went through on Sunday, that starting line, looking up that bridge is just so cool.

And thinking about like every step getting you closer to Central Park. I did LA. Yeah, he did. Oh, you did LA? So Davey did LA. Yeah, which was at the same time. You're gonna have to get to New York. But seeing New York, I was like.

Oh my gosh. I need some of that energy in my life. It starts in Staten Island, oh my gosh. I need some of that energy in my life. It starts, it starts in Staten Island. Yeah, yeah. Our boy Knox making 240 look easy. Ripped it up. He looks like he's strolling. It looks like he's like walking in the mall.

I know. Stopping to say hi, kiss babies. And then you're like, oh, he's probably running like a 345. It's like a 330 effort. And then he comes in at like, he seems to always land in the 230s. I know.

Like how do you do that? If you see me run by as fast as I can, I look like I'm in pain. Like I look like I'm working for it. He's just floating. Yeah. Knox is amazing. But I have to say,

I think the performance that impacted me the most was Tommy Rivs. After his bout with cancer, showed up, walked the whole thing. It took him nine hours and 19 minutes. There's a beautiful New York Times article in the paper today written by Adam's editor, right? Like your editor wrote that.

Who is a runs endurance and adventure sports kind of for the sports desk there and is kind of more often than not my editor. And she's obviously a gifted reporter and she ran the marathon as well. So there's like some video. So it's Futterman. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, they both, they kind of- Futterman always runs it. He's a great runner too. But it's a beautiful piece and must read stuff about Tommy and what he went through. And then the fact that he went to walk this and he considers it his greatest accomplishment and his post, which is just so poetic and so beautiful

and kind of talks about unity and love. And it's exactly kind of what we need, all need to read right now, which you shared, I think. Yeah, I did. And I was on the receiving end of a lot of messages saying, you gotta get this guy on the podcast. And we recorded a couple of weeks ago. And I think I was remiss in not releasing that podcast

today being Monday, November 8th, you know, the day after the marathon. I should have done that if I had been thinking about things more clearly. That would have been obviously the time to share that conversation. It's not gonna publish until, and you didn't know that he had been here, right?

I didn't even know he'd been here. So he was here a couple of weeks ago. I usually like keep it under wraps, like who I've talked to until it's time to release it. But I just want wanna let everyone know that we had an incredible conversation. I think you guys are gonna really love it. He's such a beautiful human,

but it's not gonna go up until mid, I think it's going up in mid December. So whenever it happens, it's perfect. Cause you know, he's also got a good message for like new years or for rebooting how you look at the world. So, you know, I think. Yeah, we have to shout out a couple other friends.

The risk with doing this is I'm gonna leave somebody out. Of course, I think I mentioned Robin Arzon, but my boy, Dan Churchill ran 328, Brian Levine, 254, under three, Chris Chavez. He's an expert, 3.34. A friend, Steve Barr, Daniel Hume, friend of the pod. I think he ran like three hours or something close to it. You guys know? Wow.

Reese Robinson, who used to do a bunch of work for the podcast video and photography stuff, ran, I think it was his first marathon. We also talked about Knox and then Oz the Mentalist. Yeah, Oz, Oz the Mentalist. He's a magician. I don't know who this guy is. He does like, do you know who he is?

He's been featured on ESPN a bunch of times. He goes mostly does speaking gigs and kind of corporate stuff, but he's this really gifted magician basically. And he could like, he could give you one card out of a deck of 52 and you could swear he never would have seen it. And he's even done this on Zoom and he knows,

he can tell you what it is. And it's not just card tricks. It's like, he can tell you the numbers on the dollar bill that was in your wallet. Like the dollar bill you took out of your own wallet. He can guess the numbers on it. Right. On Zoom. So like that kind of stuff.

That's wild. Like he is wild like that. And I don't know him that well. I've talked to him a couple of times. He's connected to David Goggins and David run with him a few times and knows him pretty well. And O's did 229, came in 33rd place.

He's in his 40s. That's wild. He's got three kids. Talking about dad. 229 is no joke. That's no joke, dude. He's got some margins. And he has two kids?

Three. Three kids. Three kids, young kids. All right, so time to level up, boys. Yeah, no kidding. Right. I'm over here like, I found time to do yoga. I'm pretty sure he's 40.

I mean, he could be late thirties, but he's in that same range. That's impressive. Yeah. That's cool. So dadding, let's pivot to dadding. Yeah. It's great.

Advice for new dads. Oh, I'm further down the line than you guys. So I can give the 10,000 foot view on this through the rear view mirror, but you guys are both in it. So my heart goes out to you. I know how hard it is. And I think it's just to kind of set the tone for this.

I feel like, and this is like a crazy generalization, but I feel like, you know, new moms or impending moms, like they know what they're in for and like they end up getting- They study up. Yeah, they get up. There's a lot of books are involved.

There's a lot of conversations with their friends. Like they're as prepared as they could possibly be. And the typical dad is just like, well, we'll see how this goes. For sure. Totally. Thank God you're studying. One of us read the book.

That'll be, well, and then there's the COVID era dad that I found when we had Lumi in 2018, that it was all of those. And I used to kind of roll my eyes a little bit, but the appointments that were every month and then every week and then seemingly every day until this kid was born were actually the best time for me as the dad

to like re-up on how real this was about to be. And during the COVID era, you can't have, in most facilities, they don't allow someone to come to the appointments. So you take all of that re-upping out of it and the belly gets bigger and you kind of hear. I had to do that all remote. Yeah. Right. I had to come to the appointments. So you take all of that re-upping out of it and the belly gets bigger and you kind of hear that. I had to do that all remote.

Yeah, I had to do that all remote. So then you don't get that reminder of like, this is happening. So you're really not changing your mindset. And then, so then this baby is born. It's like, oh, right. So I will say that was- When are they coming to pick it up?

What was the date? Oh, it's now. So we're taking this home. Oh, this is, we're cleared to, no's now. Oh. So we're taking this home. Oh, this is, we're cleared to, no background check. We're just, we get this one. Well, there's always that come to pop a moment, right? Like for me, it happened when we got back April,

like it took her a minute to adjust to the car crash she'd just gone through and her body was like, kind of gone, had gone through the ringer. And like, she was literally shivering, like she was freezing and she was not even, didn't even have a fever or anything. Like she had normal temperature. And so that happened like the first day

we came back from the hospital. So then it's like me on point for those couple of days. So everyone, I think it might come to them at a different time. The dad is going to have to step up very early on. And that to me is the moment where you start, the lock-in process happens, you know, because even if you go through that, this is your second.

So you had that already. I don't know if you remember when Lumi came or Rich, if you remember the moment, your moment you had, where you're like, okay, it's my turn. It's, you know, like all this is real and it's gonna sink or swim based on my ability in this very moment, pressure on moment. And so that happened early on for us

and it did lock me in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I also, not to, it's not like even a point to disagree on, but I feel like the contribution of like the diapers and the support and keeping the house kind of somewhat together and bringing the water while she's breastfeeding

and all that you can do, work your ass off, it's still gonna be a fraction of the show that she and the offering and the shared chemicals. And so, yeah, I mean, advice to dads is like, someone told me one time, change every diaper and do as much as you can and be ready for the fact that it won't really register on the scale of like actual giving yourself as much. Right, like acknowledging that whatever you're doing

is such a drop in the bucket compared to, compared to what she has to handle. And if you approach it from a perspective of like, hey, look at me over here and how good I'm being your toast. No. Like it has to be show up, just do all this stuff and try to anticipate the needs before she even, you know, can think to ask you to take care of it.

And the more you can be in that head space, the better off. And you're never gonna be like, it's about that bond between mom and baby, right? And there is a little bit of a powerlessness to it too. it's about that bond between mom and baby, right? And there is a little bit of a powerlessness to it too. Cause you're like, well, I'm just kind of in the way most of the time. Totally like, which is good.

Embrace that moment. Cause your time's coming. Yeah, you're like a confused concierge. It's like, you're kind of like a, so. Yes, you're an untrained concierge. Yeah, you're a bellhop with no keys. Like you don't know. The idea of, and I wish someone said this to me,

the idea of, and I told your entire crew this when I rolled up, we had a moment, we're laughing, catching up with Jason and the guys. And I was like, this is, I can imagine someone's gonna hear what I'm about to say and think like less of me or somewhat controversial. But I wish someone would have told me that being the dad of a baby is a different level of service, fun, excitement, energy, entertainment, connection than the kid that will come from it.

And so a year later, the kids learn to walk. Or two years later, there's some personality. Three years later, the kid's in preschool. I can say from my experience, it's awesome being a dad to a kid. It's a lot of unrewarding work to be a dad to a baby. And I wish that was a little bit more okay to say. It sounds selfish, but it's like- No, I think the way to frame that,

cause I hear what you're saying 100%. There's this idea, this narrative out there that even if you're on the fence about having kids, like when the baby comes, there's that lightning bolt moment and you're struck with this incredible love and just life is never the same. And I think like sort of knowing

that that kind of gets set out there, if you don't have that experience, then you feel like, well, wait a minute, like I don't know, like, why am I, you feel guilty. Did't have that experience, then you feel like, well, wait a minute, like, I don't know. Like, why am I, you feel guilty. Did you have that? You feel like, yes and no. Like I didn't, it wasn't some crazy thing like that.

It was a slower, like boil towards that. But when the baby is, you know, it's like a ball of goo, you know, there's no, it's like, it's very, sometimes it can be really hard to connect. And I think a lot of people struggle because they don't initially feel that way, but it's not until they start to, sort of outwardly exude human characteristics

that then you're like, you see the little personality or whatever. And the more human they become and the more individuated they become in their personality, that's where the love affair can like really take root. Totally. So I think if you're not experiencing those emotions off the bat in the way that you feel like culture

is demanded that you must, that you just go easy on yourself and trust that, you know, just keep doing the thing and that will come. It's about the habit you're building. It's not about how you're feeling at the moment, right? Like that's how I feel about almost anything, but especially with this. And there are people that I heard that same thing,

you know, you're gonna have, you're gonna, it's gonna be like water hits you over, you know, like bucket of cold water and your whole life is, you know, but I think those are for people that maybe haven't had those experiences in other ways. And if you've had other experiences where you've kind of had expansive moments in your life, I don't know that that's necessarily gonna happen.

Did I shed tears when Zuma came? Yes, but it was also a very arduous, long process and I was also tired. And I can't say that immediately it's because, like this golden light of love hit me in the heart kind of thing. I loved him right away, but I didn't have exactly what you're saying.

I did not have that storybook thing. But at the same time, I didn't really expect it or need it. So it's about setting that expectation. If you think that's gonna happen for you, or you want that to happen for you, and that's the meaning, then I think you're kind of looking for something that isn't going to be lasting anyway. And so it's about the habit you build.

To me, it's about the habit you build. At 14 months, man, I never knew 14 month year old kids could be so fun and full of personality. And like this stage I'm in now is so far my favorite. And it's been that way since the beginning. Every stage, every new stage is my favorite stage. So, and that's a good point, which I try and practice as loudly as I can

with either friends that are talking about one day having kids or friends that are, maybe your partner's pregnant. I say to as many dads as possible, the practice I'm working on is everything. When your crew says, how tired are you? How's it going? If my answer is, I'm fucking exhausted.

It's a lot. I make sure to have equal airtime, especially for other potential dads. I make sure to have an equal airtime for, yeah, but I put Zuma on my chest and we walk around at night when she can't sleep and it's really cute and it's warming and it's beautiful. Because I think there's this like,

you can kind of be in a cycle with like the diapers man, fuck and like, it's just so hard. It's kind of sucks, right? And even I just said it five minutes ago, the baby doesn't give a lot back. It's okay if you like kids, but not babies. It's like, I try these days to like also do the, kind of the cheesy mushy lovey stuff.

And I think that's a good practice for men to be like, and it's the cutest shit ever too. And it's better than running the LA marathon a million times. Like it's not like anything. And just trying to give like this epic description of like how much better life is. Your boy Casey said, he's like,

it's the best thing I've ever done. Like I was having a big life. He's like, he said it this morning. It's the best thing he's ever done. And he said like, he tells as many people as possible. Yeah, and I just think it's important to, you know, create that opening or that space for guys to talk about it. Women don't have a problem with this by and large,

but guys are sort of like, who do I call? Or like, am I allowed to talk about that? Like one of the things that I appreciate about you, Brogan, is you're always like, how's the dad stuff, what's going on? Like when we talk, it's like right to, like what's the important thing that, you know, maybe you can't, you don't feel as comfortable sharing with your wife or some of your friends

that don't have kids and creating like that space for dads to talk about like what they're going through with their kids to be a support system. You know, and I think more dads, particularly young dads should take advantage of that. Like create your own like network of people who are in a similar situation or maybe further down the line

who can impart a little bit of advice and open up that channel of communication so that when it's rough, you can call somebody and they can say, well, I went through that and here's what I did, or, you know, just don't forget the beautiful part of it or whatever it is when it's super hard. I mean, you did it when Zoom, when Lumi was born,

you said to me something, cause he was born in February, 2018. You said you did it. You almost did the exact same, like share the airtime. You were like, wow, good luck, man. It's gonna be, it's gonna be a lot. Or so you said something. I think I said, there's this idea like,

oh, when you have a second kid, it's not like you think, well, I've already done this before. Like I got it covered, but you don't realize like, it's not like double the work. It's like exponential. It's like 10 times more work. It's like exponential. It's like 10 times more crazy. You did the thing you did the like, man, good luck.

See on the other side or see a never. Like it was kind of funny and like realistically, he was highlighting the hard part, but almost hinged right away into this really sweet. I thought about it recently. Cause we just started putting. Always think about that when you hitchhiked and then car jacked the guy with a van,

stole the van and then drove directly here. Killed the caveman, tried to steal your job. Did the go-match. Did you imitate the tow truck driver between like finding the white tiger? Hey, so you're white tiger. No, the very warming cute thing- Is there a basket with lotion in it

in the back of that van? Oh, there's only one, yeah. Put the lotion in the basket. Get in the white tiger, get in. No, Rich Roll said to me, oh man, it's a lot. Good luck, buddy. See you out there, see you never. See you somewhere.

And then he said, hinged perfectly into, it was just feels like yesterday I was washing my kid in the sink and make this shit last. And I thought it was really warm. And so I've taken a lot of cues from you being a chapter or two or 10 ahead of me in life. But I think it was a really cool moment of like, and I think that's cool too,

because it does feel good to hear other dads complain, like, fuck, this sucks. There's something that feels good about that. But I encourage as many men that are listening to this as possible to then add the optimism, add that like, but you have to, cause it's the best. And you did it with the washing in the sink thing.

I thought it was cute. Cause your kids are teenagers. Yeah. I think just real quick, you're, I think you're very, I think the way you put the dad stuff right out there and your stories and how you present yourself to the world is very inspiring.

And it does, it does allow for you to feel like you're a whole person, even with a young kid. And like, you know, as you feel it, like it has been good for me. I've really enjoyed that. And then be able to talk to you about it also at the same time, it's been great. You're right.

I mean, I think there are, I was a member of this kind of, I still sometimes can join anytime I want, like these Zoom meetings with like, there's a guy here in LA who runs these groups for new fathers and you can come in, he calls it Donuts with Dads, and everyone comes in and they talk about things. And for a while I was involved in that.

And then I realized, you know, I'd rather like, the margin thing came into it. And it's like, as much as I like a support group, I'm not really a support group kind of guy. And I'm more lone wolf like you. And I wanna get in the water and run. And if I only have a period of time to do one of those three things,

support group's gonna be out the window. But I'm also lucky that we can have these kinds of, I get it more in like quick texts and stuff than a formal support group. But I think if you have the time and want to, the formal support group thing is really good. Cause you know, people really can talk for extended period about what they've been dealing with.

And I think a lot of people get a lot out of that. I just think the idea of young dads spending a lot of time thinking about like, how can I be a great dad and having a number of people that they can turn to to help guide them is like a huge thing. And I feel like, you know, my dad didn't have that. Right. I mean, I'm sure he thought like,

I wanna be a good dad and, you know, did all the things that he was taught in order to do that. But I don't think culturally it was like a reflex to like call for him to call a friend and say, hey, here's the thing that I'm going through right now. Like, what would you do? No, that wasn't. There wasn't a whole lot of navel gazing going on. Yeah, there wasn't a lot of that., here's the thing that I'm going through right now. Like, what would you do? No, that wasn't. There wasn't a whole lot of navel gazing going on.

Yeah, there wasn't a lot of that. No, it was like, I'm going to work and you know. Until I retire. And my dad's great. It's not like about that. Talk to your mother, I'll be home when I get home. Yeah, I buy you clothing and shelter. And it's true like, you know,

I have vivid memories of washing Mathis in this little sink bowl in our bedroom and it does go so quick. And now my youngest being 14, it seems like yesterday and it seems like a hundred years ago and so I get to live vicariously through your guys' experience is your experiences with gratitude that I'm not in it myself,

but also missing it. You know, it's like, I'm so glad I'm not waking up in the middle of the night to do that. But also there's such a sweetness to that time that's so precious. And as you know, like you with the amount of videos that you're making, I'm sure you're taking a bazillion photos of your kids all the time.

You develop this like ridiculous library of just countless images of your kids. Well, you know, fast forward 15, 17 years later, and you know how on your iPhone, you get those little pop-ups, like reminder of like, here's a moment, you know, right? Like, and it shows you photos from your library from the past.

So mine is just this rotation of like images of my kids from years ago that I forgot that I even had. That's awesome. And then it takes me right back because that image will trigger a memory of an experience and it will take me right back there. And it's melancholy because I miss that, there's a sweetness to that time.

My kids are in a different phase of life right now and it's beautiful in its own right, but it's not- It's less cute. It's not the innocent, you know, period or whatever. As a parent, you're like, oh, remember that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like in certain respects- Before the world, yeah, basically before, yeah.

It's like innocence lost, you know, which is like an inevitable thing as a parent of watching the world start to creep in in a formative way into who these people become. Right. Yeah. I have a very cynical friend named Laura and she's had her second kid.

And she said to me, she would be one to just do the whole, like, doesn't this suck? And she would like, kind of like only do that side of it and she said to me recently and it's something i think a lot about um because it's likely their last kid she talks about like every diaper or every bottle or every sleepless night might be one of their last in that phase so everyone will give advice that everything's just a phase but when she kind of nailed down on the exact nature of it of like every scraped knee,

when once the training wheels come off, they're not going back on. Like it was a really like nice warming poetic thing from someone who's usually kind of Oscar the grouch. And it was like, and it's something that I think about like almost every day, which is like, how many more times are you dancing with your kid in your arms over the oatmeal?

A hundred? Right. Not 700. Right. You know, is it 50, is it 20? And so when you start to frame it up, like we're leaving the oatmeal dance session in 20 more dances, it's like,

well, those are pretty fucking awesome. Those are even more amazing. And not that you're a guy that complains actually to me about any of this stuff, but that helps me frame up. I try to just stuff it all down. And then you cram it. The pressure in your head is just so great. But anyway, I thought that was a nice way of thinking beyond just the phases, which is a hard thing to grasp.

Like each little piece of texture is kind of fleeting. I think that's about, like that's something Jesse Itzler talks about all the time. He did it in the context of like, how many more times are you gonna visit your parents? Right now, right? Exactly. But you can just flip it and did it in the context of like, how many more times are you gonna visit your parents? Right, exactly. But you can just flip it and put it in the rear view with respect to how you deal with your kids

and understand that, especially when they're young, like those phases come quick and then they pass and then you're in a new phase. So how present and mindful can you be while you're in that moment with the understanding, like this is very, very transient and temporary and to just appreciate it. And I think it goes to this idea,

like as dads, you wanna create these epic moments for your kids, like, and my mind will veer towards like, well, we'll go on this vacation or I'll take them to this crazy place. And I'm gonna, we're gonna do this adventure, but there are no, like it's not, it's like this idea of quality time. Like every moment presents the opportunity for quality time.

It's the quality of yourself that you bring to the daily experiences, whether it's making oatmeal or walking around the neighborhood at night because your kid won't fall asleep. And as somebody who's way further down the line, when I think back on all the experiences that I've had with my kids, particularly when they were young,

it is those innocent little moments. It's not the grand big gestures, it's those tiny little things. I love that. No such thing as quality time that you have down here. I'm looking at the dock. That's a great observation from 10,000 feet that you kept with you. You know what I mean?

Cause you probably use that still. Still now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because they're older and then the phases kind of last a little bit longer and the kind of bumps along the road are a little bit more dramatic as you get into the teenage years and all of that.

But to remember like, oh, this is just another phase two. Like how can I show up and rather than resist it, just be present with it. Presence over the big thing, totally. No matter how busy you are, like you put the phone aside. No matter how tired you are, when your kid is like, hey, can we go do this thing? Can I come and look at like the thing I drew or whatever?

Like the answer is always yes. It doesn't matter how you feel, how tired you are, how busy you are, what phone call you're on, what email you have to send. Like you just say yes, no matter what. That's so cool. I had, I forced like a very like iconic dad moment where- You forced it?

I forced it. I was like, you know what? This kid's three, it's time he goes to a baseball game. Like, I don't know anything about pro baseball. We're living in Minneapolis. I was like, we'll go see the twins, get the cheapest tickets. That's also right. That's right.

Very dad, right? $18 in the top thing. We'll get the kid in the shirt, catch a fly ball, something. And it's exactly like you just said. It was like, I was creating this thing that's more about- It's about you and your expectations. And then we ended up, well, a couple of things. Number one, he's a little nervous little guy

and he's kind of like a very emotional little boy. And he kept saying, you can barely see the field. You can't see the ball when the pitcher, we're so far away. And he goes, is the ball gonna hit us? Is the ball, we are the cheapest. We are double balcony. No one's ever hit a ball up there.

The game hasn't started. They're warming up. I can't believe his little eyes can see the pitcher's mound. We're cheapest tickets. The first hit, I just promise him, we're not even gonna see a baseball. You're so safe. First pitch of the game, it's a home run

and it comes up to our section and it almost hit us. And it was so crazy. It was so crazy and he got scared. He's like, let's get out of here. I was like, let's get out of here. We got out of there and the quality time, the actual presence, fuck the baseball game. We left and just went outside and like kind of watched

traffic and watch the train go by. And it was like, that was the day. It was a day about trains and we happened to be wearing baseball stuff. So I dial into that small moments piece of giving yourself. It's like so smart because it's, if they're not attached to the baseball game. All little boys are Sean Penn in sweet and low down. They just wanna watch trains and shoot at the rats.

Totally. So anyway, it was a great day, but not because of my idea or efforts or tickets. Right. The question is Skolnick, if Zuma doesn't like baseball, what are you gonna do? Well, it's more, another question is, if Zuma doesn't like going in the ocean,

what am I gonna do? I mean, nothing, you know, like it's not my- That's the thing. I think I'm pretty good. My dad is also like that. My dad met each kid where they were at really well. He liked, he loved playing sports with me, but he liked doing the train set with my brother.

And he like, you know, and for me, I think I come up with that. Like I don't have fixed ideas of what it is to be a guy or anything in this world. Like, I feel like my dad always had that too. Like not that he's like over evolved in that kind of modern way as we think of it, but like he just wasn't,

he didn't have fixed expectations for anybody. And I think that that's good. It means that there's less pressure. And I don't have fixed expectations about, but that's because I think I cultivate that in my life. I read the Tao all the time. And like, I am very Taoist in that expectations are not my friend.

And so I try to not have them really. That's good. And so with him, you know, that's blessing of being an older dad too. You know, there's nothing I'm trying to work out. You know, guys, can I be real? You're not giving him a speech about what it means to be a skull neck?

A few short years ago, I thought I was sterile. Turns out I'm virile. Who knew? Good news. That's the easy, that's the back story. I mean, I'm an older dad, I'm like late 40s. It was not something that was on the calendar. It was something that came to us and we accept life,

but it's not something we ever expected or tried for. So I think that I keep that in mind. I take that with me going forward. But at the same time, you could look at it the other way. Like all these successful kids had these people, especially in sports, had these people driving them. And that doesn't seem to be part of my DNA, but-

Yeah, I mean, even as much as I love sport, in Minnesota, we try to teach our kid how to skate. We got him a hockey helmet so he wouldn't bust his face. We tried to teach him how to skate last winter. He mostly kind of not really didn't get it, but he fell a lot and he's fine with falling. But I remember a bunch of dads looking at how big I am and then looking at that kid, hockey country,

and saying, so what month was he born? What high school will he go to? And as much as sport has changed my life and been a huge part of who I am, training, fitness, run, whatever, like I actually go the other way. And I throw those Minnesota dads a curve ball. I'm like, yeah, we're thinking theater.

We're thinking dance. And they just do not know what to do with that answer. He loves his guy. You do that for a rise though. You're like, I wanna see, I'm gonna jack this dude up. We would support whatever is the interest. And I think the parents that are really hoping the kid follows in the footsteps are gonna be,

are very likely to be. Yeah, because it can, but more often than not, like it's not rigged that way. Like in my experience, your kids are become your teachers because they are developing in ways you didn't expect or whatever pattern you wanted to like impose upon them becomes unworkable. And so you have to become fluid and flexible

and figure out what they're inspired by and where their interests lie. And just try to fill that gap. You know, I remember when Tyler and Trapper were like six, like Trapper was always like banging his hand. And like, I remember when Julia was like, come on, we're going to guitar center. And said, sit behind these drums and just like watched him.

And I was like, oh, he's a drummer. So cool. And you know what he does now? He's a drummer. He's a drummer. Right. You know, got him a drum set. I think he was five or six at the time.

Same thing with Tyler, with guitar. I mean, Mathis was just a hellion, like running around, just throwing stuff all over the place. So Julie let her paint on all the walls. Just said, go for it, here's paint. Like do whatever you want. Like the house, I mean, we had this like new, like this modern, you know, she's like, I don't care.

I want a house of life rather than, you know, a pristine house. I like that too. And now, and you know, would literally go and stretch giant canvases for her also and put them outside and just let her like, you know, math is two years old, like naked, like throwing paint at these canvases. And now she's applying to art school.

So you never know. And I think it's just about, yeah, Julie. Yeah, like I'm like, I'm learning. Yeah, like Julie's the one who should be sitting here. Right. You know, this was all Julie. Yeah. Well, but the idea of like, oh, I see a little thing here.

Like how can I go move in and like fill that? The one thing, but the one thing, and this is a dad question for you, not the two of us in the early stages is like, but when do you know that you've tried something? Like when, like if a kid this week is interested in the violin and next week is interested in gymnastics, do you just press go on everything?

Or is there a point where you say, no, we're gonna do a second week of violin. We're gonna try this for a third week. I think that's a delicate dance. Yeah, it's really hard to figure out what that is. You should read David Epstein's book, Range though, because it's kind of all about that. It's really a study,

a look at like all of these crazy high performers who've become super successful in every kind of field from science to athletics. And it destroys that notion of like the Todd Marinoviches And it destroys that notion of like the Todd Marinovich's and the Tiger Woods who just like are maniacs from little kids and just go all in on one thing. Most of the people who are wildly successful in their chosen field,

tried a million different things for a very long time. And we're kind of late bloomers to the thing that finally becomes their thing. So I think the balance of the effort should be in exposing young people to as many things as possible. And when they wanna pull out, sometimes you gotta hit the brakes and say, well, you said you would do,

like make a commitment ahead of time. We're gonna do this for six months or a month or whatever it is, hold them to that to some regard, because it's important for them to learn like, oh, you made a commitment, you have to show up even when you don't feel like it. But at some point it's like, okay, this is not gonna be their thing.

They wanna go do over here, that's fine. And not, I think, like the generation before us or my parents' generation, it's like, no, this is what you're doing. Yeah, you play baseball. Yeah, and didn't let us or my parents' generation, it's like, no, this is what you're doing. Yeah, you play baseball. Yeah, and didn't let us or pull out or try as many things as maybe we should. And maybe now we do too much of the latter.

So there's some sweet spot in the middle there, I think. Yeah, the idea of how long, like what's the shortest period that you can try something. But you know. Yeah, Mathis did hockey for a while and then she's like, I'm done. Yeah. Okay. The, like as soon as he shows up with goggles Yeah, Mathis did hockey for a while and then she's like, I'm done. Yeah.

Okay. The like, as soon as he shows up with goggles instead of mask, I'll be like, we're Skolnicks. We're mask people. Right. We wear the mask. If you're, yeah, if Zuma shows up with swim goggles, says, but I like goggles. Did uncle Rich talk to you?

I like normal goggles, dad. Yeah, don't want to be one of those mask dorks like you and your friends dad you're the only guy you're literally the only guy in the ocean my dad's the mask dad yeah why did your dad wear that weird mask bro and when you drop me off to the car at school you're wearing it yeah you don't have to wear it when you drop me off in the car at school, you're wearing it. Yeah. You don't have to wear it when you drop me off at school. PTO meetings. My, you know, a lot of people don't realize it, but one of my dad idols is,

I'm screwing up. Nice. He's so important to you. you can't remember who it is. Tenenbaums. Got it. Oh, Royal Tenenbaum? Royal Tenenbaum. Royal Tenenbaum is my dad.

Model father. Yeah, got it. Yeah. Got it. How about Logan Roy in succession? Another model father. Another great guy. Another nice fella. He's a nice fella.

Hero dads. Who are some hero dads? Other than Royal and Logan. Rupert. Rupert Murdoch. Rupert Murdoch. Who do you look to Brogan? Brogan, I don't know, man.

There's a couple in San Diego. I will not name drop, but they have five kids and they're all seemingly within the same year. Like they're all like the same age pretty much. And they just live and not just like the IG, not just the Instagram, like posting the smiley pictures, they really just live an optimistic life. So that idea of like when your baby's like a lot

in a certain day, you do that thing where you're like, well, it's not twins, right? I think of them all the time. It's just like, they're soaking it up. And this dad seems to be on fire with just like, true optimism, five kids. So that to me is like, there's something there just about perspective or patience or all of the above.

Talk about- One of the things- For sure. You know, you- It's a good half decade there. You know, we all have that experience of going on Instagram and there are people who are living more, you know, interesting lives or more aspirational lives.

And you feel like, what am I doing? Or you feel less than. The thing that really gets me though, is dads being amazing dads on Instagram that make me feel insecure about my dadding ability. I'm like, yeah, I really wasn't as good as I could have been when they were younger. When I see dads being incredible,

that like gets me every time. Like scouts the dog on Bluey? Less than or just some, there's these videos that circulate around and like it's some dad doing something amazing with their young kid. Right, I know, but they're putting it on Instagram. So it's some dad doing something amazing with their young kid. Right. I know, but they're putting it on Instagram.

I know. So it's kind of phony, I call BS on that. But sometimes it's captured by someone else and they put it on. I prefer to see Brogan skateboarding. And I think the reason I bring that up is if I feel that way, I'm sure there's a lot of other dads who feel that way.

And I think it's the degree of like dadding difficulty is intimidating because you're expected to be the provider. You're also sort of supposed to be the strong guy who kind of lays down the boundary and the law, but you also have to be heartfelt and vulnerable and emotionally available. And you have to- But all of those things are also now.

You're now expected to go to every school function. Like there was somebody who tweeted, it was a really funny tweet. It's like, I think it was, I can't remember who it was. Maybe Patton Oswalt's brother. He was like, I'm retiring from my career to commit myself full-time to reading my kids' school emails.

That's funny. Like I can tell you when your kids get older and there's like, I literally get, maybe I get at least two, maybe three to five emails a day from each of the schools that my kids go to. Like I get like at least 10 emails a day. That's too much communication. I can't like at least 10 emails a day. Too much communication. I can't like, will you be this?

Do you wanna be on the advisory committee? Don't forget about the bake sale. And then this thing is happening. And I was like, it's unbelievable. And then as a dad now, you're not like, you're not Don Draper. Like you gotta show up for all this stuff. And it's like two o'clock on a Tuesday

and I'm self-employed for the, you know, so I have flexibility over my schedule, but like, what about the guy who does go to an office every day and is expected to work from, I mean, how are you feeling when you, look, I can't leave my job to go to the thing. Yeah, yeah. The guy who can't go to any of that.

I mean, that's why Don Draper became Don Draper because he started getting those emails and he just was like, I'm gonna go the other way. He created zero expectations that he will ever show up for anything. Yes, he literally left his daughter's birth six birthday party and came back with a dog. But then also I know amazing human beings

who were raised by fathers like that. Yeah, we get the emails, Lumi's in preschool. But I think we probably get three to five a day from preschool, no, they're not informational. It's just him doing finger paintings. It's super cute, but I get it. At some to five a day from preschool. Now they're not informational. It's just him doing finger paintings. It's super cute, but I get it. At some point. Yeah, it's going that way.

I just think, I also think there's room for, for every Instagram dad that's doing like some really cute dance moment thing, which is good. I think that exposes like a good role. It's good to see it's good modeling. I also think it's okay to admit some of the mess ups. You said something about skateboarding. When we moved to Minneapolis, I put my kid in a helmet

and I missed the boardwalk in California. So I put him on the front of a skateboard, something I've never done before. He was one and a half years old. And we went out and it was like, I mean, we definitely in the same moment went off a crack in the sidewalk and just both went down really, really hard

and used the shit out of our helmets. Kid is fine, I was fine, no crying. And I looked over and a neighbor saw me and she goes, like, she was very nice. She goes, are you guys okay? And I was like, yeah, and the kid actually is fine. And I just remember being like, that looked outrageously terrible.

And I think there's something that okay about admitting mistakes and fuck ups because there was a good intention behind it. Maybe I was trying to adventure more than I was ready for, but it's like, that can be funny, that can be dadding. And I think that like- And don't tell mom. And don't tell mom that vibe, right?

We tried something, I screwed up. We're gonna keep a secret. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good practice. There's a model. There's a crack in your helmet. We're not gonna tell mom. We're going shopping for a new helmet.

But mom will find out. Yeah, there was no concussion, I think. But anyway, like the idea of like trading notes on things that didn't work and things that did work. Like no one's really getting an A plus on this thing. We're just kind of stumbling through it, so. And you know what? I'm gonna end this by a shout out to the moms

because I know, I mean, obviously I don't know Goldie, but obviously we know Julie's incredible wisdom and intuition and abilities and leadership qualities have been really helpful. And like April, listen, man, it's the reason I can be kind of more chill in my role is because I mean, 85% of the work is being taken off my plate.

So yeah. And Brogan is here in Los Angeles while Goldie is at home right now. I'm here. With a newborn home right now. I'm here. With a newborn and Lumi. I'm at the table. Well, I told you this. God bless that woman.

You're like, I'm gonna go to, hey babe, I know we got like a brand new newborn, but like roll on is calling and I gotta break bread with Skolnick. Yeah, Skolnick and I have to like squash the beef. Plus there's these ads I gotta read. It makes no sense. And I told you this, I told you this

because we FaceTime with Adam Skolnick. So she's a new fan of his, but she's a fan of yours. And she pressed go on the idea because she does. She spent a lot of time with you guys on walks, getting ready to deliver this baby and so it's cool. So shout out to all the moms that make adding space possible, that make any margins possible.

And at the same time, keep telling positive dad stories, man. Yeah, I think if there's another little kernel in there, it's that it's important to make sure that within the very limited spectrum of time that you have, that you do carve out a little bit of time to nourish yourself and whatever that is.

So for you right now, it's this dramatic, you know, sort of stroke of like coming out here, but on some level, like you're being nourished by this experience. This is very Brogan for you to be here. 100%. Goldie knows like, oh, I need to let Brogan do this because when he comes back,

he'll be a better and more present dad. That's an extreme example of something I think you could practice on the daily, whether it's Adam, you getting the opportunity to go jump in the ocean a couple of times a week or whatever it is, like you gotta be able to hold onto that and not become completely consumed by the experience. Because if you do, then you'll start to get resentful

and that compounded by the fatigue and the sleep deprivation and all of that is going to get expressed in an unhealthy way. Yeah, fitness is key. You know, like you cannot let go of the fitness strand, in my opinion, like I, for me, it's been very key because being, again, I keep saying this, but it is true, an older dad. And so like, I'm looking at chasing down this kid

who comes with mother's very athletic and I need to be able to, you know, be present. So I look at it as part of my job as a dad to stay fit. And I think it's true. And it also helps you process the stress and all the sleeplessness and all the other kind of nasty thoughts that wanna creep into your head. So as we all know, being people who care about exercise

and love doing it just because it's fun, that is also, as we know, a very important byproduct. So it's, I think, yes, the first month, take your time, whatever, but like find it. You gotta find the margin for that. And make sure that you're providing that opportunity for your partner, right? So we were joking, Brogan, it's your birthday next week.

You're like, well, yeah, it's canceled because you're here, right? So what are you gonna do? Go back and like, so I said, what you should like, well, yeah, it's canceled because you're here, right? So what are you gonna do? Go back and like, so I said, what you should do, what you should ask for your birthday is the opportunity to provide Goldie with like a spa day. You know, like you can't, I mean, it's, this is like, oh, what are the dads need?

It's like, well, you know, any woman who's a mom who's listening to this is gonna be like, are you fucking kidding me? She's already flipped this off six times. No, for sure, for sure. The amount of moms have fallen off drastically. Oh, listen to these guys. As the episode continues on.

All the women are becoming. There's no moms left at this point. There's no more moms at this point in the podcast. No, gone, they're gone. No, yeah, I mean, providing your partner with the space. I mean, that is key and Goldie's super active. And so to get her 30 minute walk or a 30 minute run, she's about to get cleared pretty soon to work out again,

hopefully in all those things. So yeah. Right. To make sure that they're being nourished in the manner in which they deserve, I think is key. Yeah. And you know, April's gonna run that Malibu half marathon. It's her idea that I'm just tagging along

and she's gonna break two hours and I'm gonna get there when I get there. Totally. Yeah, you might not see that. Yeah, you'll be parking. She'll be gone after like a mile. You gotta earn your spot on the far club. Yeah, I'm in the far behind club.

I'll be the head of the far behind. Far behind. Yeah. I like it. It's cool. All right, I think we put a bow on it. Final thought, keep the phone away from them as long as possible.

Yeah, when you're checking Instagram while they're playing, make sure they can't see it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like, yeah, so when my Zoom is sleeping, I'm like, oh, it's better. You think they can't see it, they know. They know. It's not what you say.

The thing that I feel the worst about. The most important thing is it's not what you say. It's how you, the most important thing is it's not what you say, it's how you behave. It's what you're doing. And that's how they're modeling their behavior. Oh, that's, I thought we were ending on a happy note. It is a little self reflection there. Sheesh.

Whoa, didn't think about that one. Rose, sheesh. Brogan, beef squash, my friend. Love you, man. Yeah, I love you too. I think about that one. Rose. Sheesh. Brogan, beef squash my friend. Love you, man. Yeah, I love you too. I think you're incredible. And yeah, and I'm a fan. I appreciate it.

I'm a fan of the roll on and it got me back into the Rich Roll podcast and you know how I feel about you. Love letters for days. Yeah, man. Love you, I genuinely love you Adam. I'm so glad I was able to curate the experience of us all being together.

You do this, you do this out in the world. Well, you're the one who got on a plane and came here. You do this in the world. This is what you are. Yeah, and you do it at the table. Look at this. What does your Brogan do? What does this roll on do?

It's good, it's good. I'll have to think about that. All right, love you guys. We're gonna take another quick break and then we're gonna be back with my conversation with ultra runner, Robbie Ballinger. You know him as the guy who ran across America. He broke the record for most Central Park loops in 24 hours,

ran a hundred miles. And his most recent accomplishment doing this Colorado crush insanity, which entailed an entire summer of killing Colorado peaks, 14ers. He traversed the Colorado trail, he completed Leadville, all kinds of stuff. So this conversation again was recorded live

at the legendary Explorers Club in New York City as part of my 10,000 far capsule launch party celebration. And it's coming right up. Love you guys. But is he a dad? No, he's not a dad. Not yet. So that's pretty right up. Love you guys. But is he a dad? No, he's not a dad. Not yet. So that's pretty easy for a non-dad.

He's married. Oh, I was gonna do that. So you could be dismissive of anybody who does anything amazing because they don't have kids. If I had the hours, how many laps I do around Central Park. Sounds like big margins. Yeah, well, if I didn't have kids,

I could break that record. All right, peace. Namaste. Thank you everybody for coming out. Like I said, before the run, this is a celebration of a creative collaboration with 10,000, I'm so proud of the kit. How do you like the kit, Robbie?

It's amazing. It's good. You have to say that, right? Right now, we're on the spot. I am really proud of it. It was really amazing to collaborate with such a talented group of people. I've never worked with a company that was more responsive

to athlete feedback. The number of samples that I've never worked with a company that was more responsive to athlete feedback. The number of samples that I continue to get in the mail over the course of a year was insane. I couldn't believe how immersive it was as an experience. And it was really creatively fulfilling. So I just wanna thank everybody at 10,000, Keith, of course, Dominic, Travis, Brian, everybody who collaborated on what we're here to celebrate today.

So thank you guys. It's really proud. I'm really proud to be here. I have the distinct honor of hosting a conversation with my friend Robbie here, Robbie Ballinger. Many of you probably know Robbie already. He's distinguished himself as an extraordinary athlete and ambassador of running, not only as he run across the United States,

he recently broke the 24-hour Central Park Loop record. Did I say that right? I don't know what it's called exactly. Central Park Loop Challenge. Yeah, and you ran how many miles in Central Park? So it's actually, it's the hours it's open. So it's from 6 a.m. until midnight is the time you have to run, which is 19 hours. I finished in 18 hours and seven minutes with 16 loops. So it was 98 miles and some change. Right, but then you made sure you tagged on a few miles.

Yeah, we tagged on to get it to 100. Like what's the point of getting that far and not going to 100? Three digits always looks better than two. So 98.6 miles in 17 hours? 18 hours and seven minutes. So most of you, many of you, I'm sure, have run the full, is it 6.2,

the full Central Park loop, right? Raise your hand if you've done that loop. How many of you can imagine running that for 98.6 miles? Yeah, yeah. Harlem Hill gets real big. I've had the privilege of watching Robbie evolve as a runner. I met him on the very first day of his attempt to cross the country by foot.

I was like, who's this guy? I didn't really know that much about him. We ran for a couple miles, and then he went on his way. And I thought, I don't know if I'll ever see that guy again, or whether he's going to make it or not. And I've watched this individual continue to double down, iterate, and improve as an athlete. And you've really matured into this incredible ambassador of the sport. So I just wanted to credit you for that. And it's been so great to watch you take on and tackle these challenges. I'm like, catch a breath, you know, take a break for a minute. But let's talk about what you did this past summer, the Colorado Crush. So maybe explain to people what you spent most of your entire summer doing. Yeah, so the Colorado Crush consisted of three parts.

It started with the Leadville Trail Series. So Leadville, town in Colorado at 10,000 feet, it's the highest incorporated town in Colorado. They have a race series in June. There is a marathon, July, a 50-milerer and August a hundred. So I did all of those between the marathon and the 50 miler. I, um, ran the Colorado trail. So 485 miles. I did that in 11 days. And then between the 50 miler and the hundred, I summited all 58 peaks over 14,000 feet in Colorado. So cumulatively when I got done, it was just under 1,200 miles. And then the stat that

I'm really proud of is it was 308,000 feet of elevation gain. So that's the equivalent of summiting Everest from sea to summit 10 and a half times in two months. We are in the Explorer's Club. Right? I'm like, I don't know where to go with that. I think what's amazing is, you know, it's easy for somebody to hear that and think, well, that's, I can't even connect with that. Like that's so outrageous

that you must just be some freak of nature, but you're not somebody who's been doing this for actually all that long. So maybe catch people up who don't know a little bit about your backstory, how you got into running, because this is relatively a recent phenomenon, this kind of life overhaul that you've been on. Yeah, I grew up in athletics. I played team sports, predominantly football. Believe it or not, I was an offensive lineman. How much did you weigh? I was not like a big one. I had fast feet and that kind of has carried over,

but I probably weighed about, I think my heaviest was actually after that in college. I weighed like 225. Right. I'm about 175 now. And then post high school, a little bit of college, I ended up in the restaurant industry for many years, ending with owning,

being part owner in some Neapolitan pizzerias in Austin, Texas. And in that time, I was just like living that restaurant lifestyle, work hard, party real hard. And it wasn't really adding up to me being the leader I wanted to be for these restaurants. And on the encouragement of my fiance, Shelly, she invited me on a two and a half mile run. And that was it. Like, it changed my life. And it's just been since then, like, two and a half miles turned into a half marathon two months later, a marathon the next year, 50 miler. And then I left the restaurants, and I didn't know what I wanted to do next.

And some things kind of coalesced, and I decided I was going to run across the United States. And I would do it to create conversations about better food choices and promote the efficacy of a plant-based diet. And so that was where this, like, I kind of made my name in the running scene. And then it's just been since then a couple more big efforts and refining what matters to me about running and what are the things I need to be the best runner I can. Mm-hmm. So when you're, and this gets into kind of the theme or the ethos of what today is all about, like when you're running across America or you're running Leadville or in the midst of one of these unbelievable challenges, like what is going on in your mind? Like what is your brain doing and how are you,

you know, staying on track and not letting, you know, kind of the dark demons get the best of you? Yeah. I mean, for me, like that's the problem with these things. One leads to the next, because where I dream up the next challenge is usually on the one before it. But while I'm out there, I mean, it's just running is where I go to better understand myself, to just hash through all the parts of me that need work on. And like, I think you can't really work on something until you can identify it. And on runs is where I identify things. It's like, okay, this is a part of me. This is why I do this thing I do. And now let me sift through what that is and what it means to me. And like

this summer, I've been on this long journey of my father died when I was really, really young. I realized kind of through the Transcon run that a lot of what I was doing was trying to define what it means to be a man. And then this summer, starting with the Central Park Loop Challenge, which I did here in New York, right before that, my uncle died, my dad's brother. And that brought all that back to the surface. And so from there, it was sifting through this of just like, what does this mean? And I think what I came to through the Colorado Trail, especially part of this summer's effort, is I came to peace with that. And I realized that I'm no longer looking for what it means. I'm just expressing it. I'm expressing my version of what it means to be a man. So that was like the big thing that came out of this summer,

but it's always something new. And it's always a place for me to, yeah, just figure those things out and then dream about the next thing. Yeah. I feel like there's a fine line between the kind of indulgency of running at the ultra level like the way that you engage with it,

on the one hand, it can be a lever for ordinary self-improvement, unlocking hidden potential, becoming the best version of yourself. But the flip side, it can literally use running to run away from those very things, those demons that you're trying to hide from. And I see both versions of that.

So I'm curious whether you've come up against that. Like at some point, if you're doing so many challenges, the question has to be asked, like, are you running away from something or are you running towards something? So how do you kind of think about that and that? I mean, thus far, just all the markers say that it's going in the right

direction. I'm running towards something. You're in a healthy relationship still. Yeah, yeah. I've still got my fiance. And yeah, I mean, thus far, it's redefining me as a person in a way that seems all positive. I understand that there's that other side of it. My mom will ask me that once. She's like, is this just an addiction? And I was like, it's better than the old ones. Like, you know, like, yeah, yeah. A friend of my friend Mishka said to me, uh, cause he gets asked that same question. The way he answers it is the drink or the drug was always the easy choice. Putting on the running shoes is the hard choice. Absolutely. And it builds resilience in the rest of your life. You know, like just the getting out on the run. I live in Denver, Colorado. And like, as I was preparing for the Central Park Loop Challenge, like a big thing I was doing was getting out and running when

it was really cold. And a lot of that was just about gaining that get up and go muscle, you know, just like really, because I'm going to do a loop around Central Park. I'm going to stop. I'm going to see my family, my friends. I got to get back out there. And so just building that resiliency. Yeah. So thus far for me, I feel like running has been very positive. Yeah. So what does free association run mean to you, Robbie Ballinger? I think like to me, like when I think of that, I think a lot about Knox Robinson's here, right? And he, you know, he's mentioned, I think it was him that said like running is rebellion. I think running is also selfish, but I don't think selfish has to be a bad word. Like it's a place where you get to commune with yourself. And this summer, what I

realized being in the mountains compared to running on the side of the road is like, there's this world and that we live in and all the technology and everything, it has all these great things, but it also can really beat you down. And like when I got out on the trail, I realized none of that was there, even to more of an extent than I normally do. But in that, that running's kind of selfish, we just get to disassociate with all of these things

that just can kind of drive us nuts in a way, even when we don't know it. And you get to be centered with yourself and you get to learn from yourself. Like we, the most growth comes internally. And again, it's back to yourself and you get to learn from yourself. Like we, the most growth comes internally. And again, it's back to that idea of just sifting through who I am, the things I want to do. And often you, because you're running, there's no barriers to where your thought goes. Like often I come home with an idea and I have to rein it in. I'm like, that was great, but like, let's be realistic here. How do you, one of the problems that I have is

I'll have those sparks of inspiration when I'm out running and I don't want to stop and like type them into a note or like record a voice, like, cause that interrupts the thing. But if I don't do that, then they become very elusive and they might like, when I'm, I'll forget them quickly. So it's always a challenge to figure out how to like capture the best of what might percolate up during a run versus interrupting that flow. How do you deal with that?

I think I wait until it happens a couple of times. I run a lot. So it's like when those ideas come and pop into my head a couple of times on a run, then they resonate and I remember them. I'm sure there's a lot I've missed, but also sometimes stop and write them down. Like I don't, I'm not a, I'm not a very fast runner. I just go really far. And in that, like running should be enjoyable. So when I'm out on a run, I'm not usually worried about splits. I'll take that time to just like calm down, write it down and keep going. But I wouldn't say often more. It's just they, those things that come up often mean they need to be paid attention. Right. If you follow Robbie on Instagram, he always shares photos that he takes during his run. So I know that you're at least stopping a little bit

to like enjoy the experience. And I was joking after the run that we just had, the intention for the run was for it to be silent, for us to have that free association experience, to kind of pay attention to the breath, to get into that higher state of consciousness where creativity can percolate up and we can associate disparate ideas and kind of have that spark of inspiration.

But instead, there was a lot of talk nonetheless, and I was as guilty of that as anyone else. And it made me think, the idea was like come back and share what that experience was about or what came up for you. And for me, it was a couple of things. One, like extreme gratitude to just be in New York City in the fall and run,

like what an extraordinary privilege it is to run in New York City and to be part of this community. Like I do a lot of my running alone. I live in a pretty remote place and I'm just out trail running by myself. And it reminded me how important community is and how good that felt to be with a group of like-minded people.

And running for me and my relationship with it is this combination of that solo experience where you can go deep on yourself and really kind of be in that active meditation space that is so healthy and kind of healing for me. And then on the flip side of that, to have the community experience. And you as somebody who goes really long, I mean, I want to talk about the Colorado Crush and that experience in a little bit more detail, but one of the things that I think was notable about it was this combination of these solo expeditions, but then you would pop in on these races and have kind of that communal like succor, you know, to get fed by, you know, your fellow community runners.

Yeah, absolutely. It was a place to come in and commune with others. Absolutely. Like the effort of the Colorado Crush was those three efforts and they all kind of ended up being, meaning something different for me individually. And it was that like the races were communal. It was a place to celebrate running with all these other people in this beautiful town of Leadville. And then the Colorado Trail was very introspective. It was just me on the trail, long swaths of time while I was by myself. Like there was one day I was out, it was 56 miles and it took me 19 and a half hours.

And I didn't have any crew through all of that. So like a lot of time to just commune with myself. And then the 14ers were just this immense amount of gratitude. Like when you get to wake up every day and see sunrise on the top of a mountain, like you're just like, I'm so lucky. Like it was just so much gratitude for it. So each of them kind of had their own specific meaning in there. So you were driving around in this van, right? It had your name on it. Do you still have the van? Absolutely. Did you drive the van here? No, no, no, no. I was hoping that you would have it. When I showed up here, it would be

parked out front. No, I drove enough this summer. Colorado, you can drive a lot in that state if you want to. Like I've seen every inch of it. Let's talk a little bit about the run across America. I mean, we did a podcast on that where we went into it at length, but a lot of people here may not have heard that. Maybe just share a few,

well, first of all, explain the process of how you did that, how many miles you were running every day, and then maybe share a couple highlights and low points and, you know, tackling that challenge. Yeah, so it was 3,175 miles. I did it in 75 days. So from Huntington Beach, just south of Los Angeles to Central Park. It was me really venturing into this big ultra endurance efforts. And looking back, like I probably bit off a tiny bit more than I could chew. I got it done, but I pushed my mind, my body every day to the limit. And it was done to, again, about being plant-based and that was new to me. So it was something I really wanted to talk to others about. And I wanted to prove to myself that it was the right choice. And I proved to myself that it was. It's definitely what works

for me. Along the way, there were lots of highs and lows. The first month, much harder than the rest of it. Well, all of it was really hard, but it got a little bit easier after a month. Day 19, I really probably came to my darkest place and ended up having to take a day off. I had like really bad tendonitis in my leg. And in that day though, in retrospect, a lot of growth came out of it. It was the one moment where I wasn't sure if I'd be able to continue. And in that, you kind of give yourself up to the energy of the world, a higher power, whatever it might be. And that was really important for me.

Like somebody that just grips tightly to control, letting that go and realizing that it was too big for me to just like force it the whole time and having to go with the flow, put one foot in front of the other and yeah, take it day by day. So that was definitely like low, but also one of the highest points. The Navajo Nation in general is

just a really beautiful place. I ran through that for like eight days. A special, special place that I truly loved. Yeah, it was just great. Appalachians will absolutely crush your soul though. Like Pennsylvania, really hard. Like, yeah. He's so casual and cavalier about this stuff. Like, it's no big deal. Like, it's crazy what you've done. The thing that really stands out for me about you and kind of how you approach your running and your athleticism is that there's this service piece to it in that when you're not in the midst of tackling your own challenge,

you pop in on these other people's challenges and help them along. So you were a big part of Hella Sidibe's run across America the other summer. He also ended up here in New York City and would have been here today, but he's out of town, I guess. And then also you were just in the UK helping out some other guy in some other crazy challenge. And I just like the idea that you give yourself over. Like there's a, there's a humility to that. I think that you have this practice of showing up in service to other people who are trying to do things similar to what you've done. So talk a little bit about how that plays into

how you think of yourself as an athlete and a, and a man, because this whole idea of like how to be a, how to be a man is a big part for you. Yeah, with both of those guys, like I think that like why we were the three of, I'm dear friends with both of them now, but it all came from a place of meeting them both and through our meeting, understanding that they wanted their challenge as bad as I wanted mine. And you need people to help you along the way. And, you know, in mine, like certain people stood up and took the lead to help me make it happen. And I saw an opportunity to do that for both of these guys. And they're just two people too, that are just like, you know,

there's those people in life that just resonate with you. And like, they're like brothers and you just know it right away. And luckily both of them are that for me. And then, you know, they're both very different people. I mean, Hella, if anyone is familiar with Hella, I think most people are at this point. He's becoming an icon. He just is, you're just attracted to him. He's just such a positive person. And I try to be positive, but the more you're around Hella, it rubs off. So I get something out of it too. And that's a really big deal. And then William Gouge, who I just helped, he did 48 and 30. He ran 48 marathons in each county in England in 30 days, ending with the London Marathon where he ran a 306.

Wait, 48 marathons in 30 days? Yeah, yeah. In different places? Each county, so we were hopping around. And with him, it was a little bit different. When I met him, I went over right after my, after we did our podcast. I went over to the UK and he did joggle, John O'Groats to Land's End. He started at the tip of Scotland and went to the bottom. He was not ready. He bluffed his training, 16 days, he got it done. It was like 60 something, 59 miles a day. But he was on the heels of his

mother passing, Mandy. She died of cancer. And so our bond comes through that loss. Because my father died when I was young. That has a lot to do with why I run. William definitely runs for Mandy. And I don't know anybody else in my circle that that's why we run. So that's kind of our kinsmanship. And he's 10 years younger than me. And he's like a little brother, like a bigger little brother. But yeah, he's, yeah. When you were back in the restaurant industry, could you have imagined this life that you're living now? Absolutely not. It wasn't that long ago, right? Yeah, no, it still shocks me. My birthday was just the other day and I posted on Instagram about that. I was like five years ago,

I'd never thought I am where I am now. And what I realized about that that's really exciting is that means I don't know where I'm gonna be in five more years. And that's really fun to like know that every day is new. And if you embrace life and go with the flow and sometimes force things, like life can be really exciting. Yeah.

So there may be people in this room who are in the earlier stages of trying to figure out who they want to be, the trajectory that they're on. Maybe they're considering some life changes or some pivots. So talk a little bit about how you figured that out for yourself and how you got yourself into a state of mind to make some pretty drastic changes and incur some risk and kind of blaze this unique path that you've been on? Yeah. I mean, I think it, I, I, everything I do, I put myself into wholeheartedly,

like 110%, everything. And with that, like you give yourself fully, there's a point, there might be a breaking point where you've given yourself so much that you kind of break. And that's kind of what happened with me with the restaurants. It was almost like there wasn't a choice. Like it was over. I had to take a break from that. And with that, my mom always said, has told me when I was a kid, you can do anything you set your mind to. And so like getting into running to this degree, running across the United States was kind of like, all right, let me see if that's true. And I did it. So I don't, I like, my thought, like I've come to this recently is like life, life's going to throw you shit no matter what you do. You're going to be disappointed. There's going to be things, obstacles to overcome,

whether you sit on the couch or you run across the country. So you might as well do what you want to do. Like get out there, put yourself there, and make that your obstacles. And then at the end, you'll be where you want to be instead of still sitting on the couch. But yeah, and that's just keep redefining myself and trying new things for the sake of, we only have one life to live, maybe, maybe there's more, but that's all we know about for sure. And I think that comes from losing my father at such a young age. Like, I just want to embrace every day and make the best of it because you don't know when it's over. And I think that makes me never be able to idly sit by

and not do what really speaks to me. I mean, I have my lows. Even since running across the U.S., it hasn't been a direct path to me sitting here with you right now. I, at one point, kind of didn't know if I could do it. I lost the confidence, and I tried something else.'t know if I could do it. I lost like the confidence and I tried something else. And then it was like, that definitely doesn't work. Let me get back into this. So nothing's linear and perfect, even as I sit here. So on that point specifically, talk a

little bit about failure and how you think about failure. I mean, obviously you can't do anything extraordinary without incurring the risk of failure and failing time and time again. So how do you conceptualize that? To me, it's just like, it's all in mindset and we get to choose what we hang on to. And like, I just choose to celebrate my victories and take my defeats and throw them to the wind. Like, what's the point?

Like, we can be constructive if we have the right mindset. And to me, failures are going to happen, but they're just part of the learning process. And you're going to learn something from it, but you get to decide if you're going to let it beat you or you're just going to not like beat it, just let it go. Like, get it out of the way and keep going. I would suspect there's some people here who maybe have a dream or a big idea of something that they want to accomplish in their life. And maybe that's an idea that recurs

when they go out and run and they kind of meditate and are in that space and they keep looping back to this thing that they want to do, but they just can't get off the dime. Like they're paralyzed by that first step or they're in that state of mind where they feel like they have to have it all figured out before they can begin. Or they're just irrational about the level of risk mitigation that's required before trying something hard. So maybe we can, we're probably getting near the end of our time

here. Like I want to leave people with some kind of tactical inspiration around the beginning process of like actualizing a dream. Well, it all does begin with that first step. And like, if you're scared to take the first step, like get past that, take the first, because any big goal is going to require a lot of little steps to get there, whether that be running across the United States, starting a business, whatever it is, and you got to chop it up into manageable pieces. When I ran across the United States, it was in five mile segments. Every five miles, I'd see my crew take on water, take on food. And that's what I started focusing on. I couldn't, when I left Huntington Beach, think about New York. Too big, too far. Some days I couldn't think about the end of the day, but I could think about five miles. And so it's just about one foot in front

of the other. Those obstacles are going to come. You will get over, you'll get past them and just keep moving. One foot in front of the other. Big goals require a lot of little goals. What are you up to next? I'm going to go home for a minute. I think Shelly's going to be happy to have me. And then I've got a lot of challenges in my head that are kind of swirling. Me and Hella are talking about one. I would like next year to go back over to the UK.

There's a thing called the Three Peaks Challenge, highest point in Wales, Scotland, and England. If you traverse them by foot it's about 500 miles hit all the top of the peaks i'd like to set that or grab the fkt for that is that the thing that tony riddle did he did it as well yeah he did it barefoot which is funny tony like i mean well you know we ran into him on the last day of william's run william was coming south when he did joggle as well, Tony did. He was going south to north.

We were coming north to south. And on William's last day, it was Tony's first day. And we met up like on the road, just ran into each other. And of course, all he did was look at our feet. And I had Luna's sandals on at the moment. He's like, good shoes. I was like, but yeah. So I would like to do that. I signed up for the Cruel Jewel moment. He's like, good shoes. I was like, but yeah, so I would like to

do that. I signed up for the Cruel Jewel 100. It's in Georgia. It's a hundred mile race with 34,000 feet of gain. The 50 mile version of that was my first big ultra. So it's going to be kind of like, I grew up in Georgia too. So it's kind of like a going back to where it all started. That's kind of the goal of that one. Cool. I think we're, are we in a place to open it up to questions? Rich has an amazing podcast. What are you listening to or what are you doing with your mind?

What are you doing over and over again? Because that's, you know, you're essentially battling that mental, you know, fortitude there because it's a lot to kind of deal with, you know? Great question. Dan must have a podcast. It goes a lot of places, you know? It is listening to meaningful podcasts like Rich's. I can't really do audio books. Sometimes it's music. When I'm in a big challenge,

what I've found is I fixate on a couple of songs or artists, and it just gets on repeat. This summer, it was Tyler Childers, Nose to the Grindstone. I think that song, just the name of the song, Nose to the Grindstone, like it was where I was at. And then a lot of it is me just going through my life, that kind of free association. But, you know, a lot of it, I remember on the Colorado Trail, it was like, that was the hardest part of the summer physically. And I would have those like, things where it's like, oh, you're, you know, all these enlightened moments of why I was doing it. It was so, you know, whatever. And then I'd be like, or it's just because you're a bad motherfucker, you know? And like, just stick with that one for a minute. So yeah, it goes all over the place.

I can't do music all the time. It gets to where it just overwhelms you, I'd say probably 30% of the time. And the rest is sifting through these free, you know, association thoughts and just coming up with new things I want to do, dreaming about the future, whether that be running or the other parts of life that really matter. It's not all about running. I just have a question about community. So somebody who worked in nightlife and restaurant industry, I know the communities work hard, party even harder. And then you decided to take an athletic route and start running races and stuff like that. So I'm sure over the years, your community has changed from partying to healthy living, running, athleticism in general. How was that transition? Did you experience kind of like loneliness in between where you kind of left the party scene but you haven't built yet more healthy different

community? Was it lonely at times? Well, initially it wasn't too bad because I was still in the restaurants. I just wasn't, I wasn't going out afterwards, you know? So I still had that community around me. Really, I think where more of the isolation came was we moved, we moved eventually from Austin up to Denver, Colorado, and it was just Shelly and I and friendships were hard to come by. Like as you get older, it's harder. So it was a lot of just running alone. But then you, over time, gradually have started to make friends within this world, meaningful friendships, like Hella, like William, Rich. And with those, it, yeah, but there was, I think the easy to that is there's definitely been some of that. There's been some lonely times in isolation.

But one of the things I love about these big challenges is it brings people together. I cannot do these by myself. And I'm really lucky to have an amazing support group around me. And what I love is it gives us this like real like time together. It's very like concentrated and it's beautiful and fun. So I think it's instead of like always having people around,

being at the bar, partying, it's like I have a lot of alone time. But then when I do have people around, it's meaningful and it's just concentrated good time. I think just to piggyback on that piece a little bit, the comfort with the alone time comes with getting comfortable with who you are, right? Like if you're uncomfortable with who you are

and you've been spending a lot of your time with, you know, in recovery parlance, it's called lower companions. Like, you know, you're out partying and then you want to switch up your life. You want to be sober or you want to invest your time and your energy in healthier pursuits.

It does require finding a new community of people to surround yourself with who are vibrating at a higher level and are kind of a little bit further down the path of where you want to go. And along that journey is the inside work of, you know, reckoning with whatever was leading you down the darker path and clearing that out and getting comfortable with who you are so that when you are alone, you're not feeling less than, but you're actually comfortable with who you are because you like the person that you are becoming. And the great news is for anybody who lives in this amazing city, there is every possible community of people doing any number of things that are, you know,

available to you as a person who's, you know, trying out new things and trying to figure out where you fit in. You seem to have been touched deeply by the Navajo region. I'm just wondering if you can tell us a little bit about that area and why it moved you so greatly. The people. It's just, it's like, as I ran across the U.S. like not a lot of people ask what you're doing and if they do and you're like I'm running across the U.S. like oh okay back on their phone and you're like did you not hear what I just said and in the Navajo Nation every almost every car stopped and they wanted to know what I was doing and they were proud for me to be have chosen to come through their land and that was just, it was touching.

They look you in the eye. They want to have conversation. And they're proud of what they have and what they have isn't a lot. And that really makes you feel really grateful for the things you do have and also remind you to be grateful for what you have and understand that have and also remind you to be grateful for what you have and understand that it's again it's all mindset and they just have a culture that's set up in a way that they stay true to themselves and they they're prideful in who they are and that that really resonated with me yeah hi i have a question could robin can you talk about how you recover in between your running no because i know you use like hardware and software like tools like both for your endurance and also your mental state and that yeah so this summer

like i what one thing i realized this summer was i again i think i often on runs like start to acknowledge and define things and then i can explore them further. And I realized that this pursuit I'm on is one of trying to understand how to sustainably move through space and time. That's like the real woo-woo way to say it. And it's really just like how to find sustainable motion. And I thought a lot about like Native American cultures and how before horses were around, they had to move by foot and how they must have been so valued in society. And so looking back, when I ran across the United States, that was all about my food choices.

And I thought if I went plant-based, that was the key to success and I would be able to run indefinitely. And then when this summer came around, I realized through the Transcon, there was a piece that I had missed. And that piece I had missed was recovery. I had no recovery plan. And due to that, I wasn't sleeping a lot. There were days that were a lot

harder than they needed to be. I was having to dig in ways that had I gotten good rest, wouldn't be there. So recovery became the focal point. And with that, one of my sponsors, we did this summer, it was a 10,000 and then NuCom. And NuCom's a neuroscience technology that through a three-part system, it brings your brain into alpha and theta waves and lets you get really meaningful rest when you need it. And a lot of this summer was exploring that as a recovery tool and if it would really help me along the way. And the truth of it was, is it was one of the pillars of my success. And then fast forwarding, I went and helped William Gouge in the UK he also utilizes NuCom and he used it in between his marathons so essentially we talked a lot about his run

and it was 30 days 48 marathons but he said because he would take a nap in between and use this for him it was 48 days like he got enough restful sleep in between to take on the next day so that was kind of the thesis of this summer recovery and that was the tool that I used to do it. What I learned from William also was he's like really strong. He's muscular. And that's my next one. I've got to get more full body, like a full body workout going, which is good because 10,000 has all the gear for that. And maybe they can follow that journey as I kind of get biceps and stuff. We'll see. So I just had a question for as often as you guys obviously train, and I would love to hear from both of you guys on this, honestly, for as often as you train as competitive as you guys are for as long as you've been going, how is your why like evolved? Right.

Cause I'm sure the reason of why you started running at this higher level through the years has changed. And I'm just curious how you kept like the fire burning like how you kept the competitive edge uh yeah i mean for me as when we talk about the big stuff like starting with the transcontinental run the why there was was very clear it was to promote a plant-based diet i had a reckoning where i wanted to do something that could help environment like the environmental fight. And I found that a plant-based diet is a thing that we as individuals can do.

And I knew it was good for my performance. And I wanted to prove that and boast about this diet. And that's still like a core part of me, but I did that work, right? Like probably more than most people. I ran across the country to talk about it. So it's like there. And so the why now, what I realized on that run

was I was also able to inspire people in other ways. It wasn't all about the plant-based diet and knowing that by my efforts could encourage someone else to pick up better habits. Like giving somebody the gift of running, there's no better gift anyone's ever given me. And so that keeps me going. Yeah, my evolution is somewhat similar.

I mean, early on when I was heavily invested in training and racing and ultra races, a lot of it was initially selfish. I wanted to prove something to myself about my own capabilities. I felt like I had things I needed to say for myself and to prove to myself about my athletic potential. And then that evolved into leveraging it

as similar to Robbie, like a platform to talk about plant-based nutrition and also kind of human potential as we start to age because I was doing it in my 40s. And that became a narrative that created kind of the foundation of what I do today. But I turned 55 next week. So I'm in a very different stage of life than Robbie.

And it's a less, it's really not about competition for me anymore. My life is very different. I have a lot of responsibilities and I'm privileged to be in a situation where I have this platform where I have the opportunity to communicate with people like Robbie and share those conversations. And that is really kind of like my focus and my, you know, in addition to being my vocation, like my passion. So the idea that I'm going to go and train 25, 30, 35 hours a week to go do some

challenge, as appealing as that is for me to like leave my life and live in a cabin and train, like that's just not my life anymore, nor do I want it to be my life anymore. Like I wake up every day and think, what is the thing that I can do today that will move the needle in the most significant way for the most significant way for the most number of people? And often that's having podcast conversations or writing or putting out a book or getting on a plane to go give a speech somewhere.

And I think athletic pursuits have their place in that, but I see myself now more as an ambassador and somebody who can be a catalyst for another individual's version of what I've already experienced. Like, I don't feel like, yeah, I could go train a lot and like try to do something crazy, but I've already pretty much proved to myself everything that I needed to know about what I can and maybe can't do as an athlete. And so my focus is really more outward facing and service oriented in terms of like trying to activate other individuals, because maybe not everyone's going to run across the

country or do any of the things that I've done, but I think everybody inside of themselves has some version of that. And maybe that's becoming a standup comedian or a concert pianist, or, you know, it doesn't even have to be athletic, but the idea of trying to get people in a headspace to more deeply connect with expressing their inner potential is kind of what I'm all about. And that expression can come through the form of nutrition, movement, you know, business, any number of, you know, creativity, any number of factors. But movement is really the primary kind of force behind all of it. And that kind of ties it back to this idea of FAR, Free Association Run, which is really like using our bodies to try to connect with our innate creativity so that we can be the most expressed and the most expressed

in our human potential. Hey guys, thanks both for being here. It's been great to hear you. Just curious, I've heard a lot about the first step in running and I think I have that piece down, but the other thing you've talked a lot about is this idea of a plant-based diet. And I'm just curious, like my mind's going a million miles

a minute here, but what you would consider kind of the first step in that journey and what that really looked like for you. And Rich, if you have anything on that too, I'm just curious. I heard it said really well recently by Brendan Brazier. Yeah. He, one of the like old school, like plant-based athletes. And I really liked what he said in that, look at it as a thing of not what you're taking away from your plate, but what you're adding. And just like starting to put healthier things on your plate, small steps, and eventually your plate's just full of greens and healthy stuff. And also for me, it's an idea of getting there over time is probably the best approach because if I sit up here and preach absolutisms

and that everybody should switch to a plant-based diet tomorrow, you'll go home, you'll try, a week later you're going to fail, and then you're never going to look at it again because nobody wants to fail. So the acknowledgement first and foremost is that it will be better for you and it will definitely be better for this planet, and then start making gradual steps in that direction. I don't know how much more I can add to that. When you asked the question, I made a little mental list of the things I wanted to cover, and then he just said them all.

I think the other piece to that is holding onto it lightly. Like, make it a fun adventure. It doesn't have to be like this martyrdom, burdensome thing where you're like, oh, it's gonna be really hard, and I'm gonna have to think about this. Like, just have fun with it, And some days you'll stray or whatever, and that's okay. It's really about trying to create a foundation of habits that you can sustain long-term and treat it like, you know, a journey as opposed to a rigid binary thing.

Like, I'm plant-based. And then the minute, like Robbie said, like you go off the rails and you think, well, this is too hard and you just abandon it altogether. And I really do think it is about crowding out the unhealthy foods and just focusing on being excited about trying new things and building more and more healthy foods onto your plate. And then paying attention to how you feel. I think making that emotional connection to it, like, well, I actually do feel better today. And like noting that, like, well, what did I eat? And paying attention to that, I think really roots you in sticking with it long-term.

And then also figuring out your why for it. And your why can be like, I feel fat or I feel lousy and I just don't wanna feel this. It doesn't have to be like I'm gonna save the world or I'm saving the animals or anything. If that's your thing, that's great. It can be a very simple thing. But I think understanding why it is that you would want to try to engage in healthier eating habits, I think is important in kind of figuring out how to stay the path. Hi, I hope this question makes sense. I think a lot about like how I spend my time and how my friends spend their time.

And there's a lot of like waste in that, like lots of TV we don't like that much and friends we're never gonna really be that close with. And I feel like in both of your more like focused goal-based lifestyle, you likely have found ways to kind of cut to what's important in your leisure time outside of your goals. And I'm interested in whether that was like a deliberate process

where you thought about your days and what should stay and what should go, or it just happened over time. I think for me, it was just over time by like, just focusing more on the things that I do care about. It just is going to take a lot of time. Like the training to run ultras is very time consuming. And so, yeah, it eventually just whittles out that stuff. I mean, it was never a conscious thing for me. Like I don't have any negative associations with the people I used to hang out with.

They're just not really there anymore. Like I don't dislike those folks. I'm just like, these are the things I do love. And that time in between is only going to be given to the people that really I care for and care about me. Hey, Robbie, you talked about how running helped you discover what it is to like be a man. I guess outside it's easy. You tackled these physical feats. Could you talk about your findings in like a mental aspect, like what it did for your mental

health and that part of being a man? Yeah, I think through like running and also through my journey into being plant-based, like compassion became a big part of that. Looking at like, what are these kind of toxic things that society tells us are what to be a man and kind of like really looking at that and being like does that really make sense and one of those being compassion like trying to be a compassionate person this summer as I was summiting all of the 14ers like it required being very calculated and very intentional and those things are I learned from that to try to be more of that in life like to and again try to be more of that in life, like to, and again, try to be more intentional,

not spout off, not, you know, just be, have more calmness to my being. Those are kind of big ones for me right now. And, but it's always an evolution and I'm not perfect. And then one also being, looking at my running and seeing how hard I've strived and focused on that and realizing that there's other, there's so many aspects in life

and we can't be great at everything, but I do value running. So I'm gonna try to be great at that. But what are the other ones that I could put more time and energy into perfecting? And like, that's just being a good partner or building a foundation for a future with a family and things like that.

So just, yeah, using what I've learned through running and applying it to other aspects of my life. Hey, guys, I have a question for both of you. So when you're, like, training for something specific, there are days where you can, like, get caught up in, like, a high and, like, you have a purpose because it's, like, bigger than you. So when you're, like, finished with a challenge, how do you sort of deal with, like, the fallout?

Because, like, you don't really have that thing to lean on anymore. And so if you're having a tougher time during the day, how can you have something to lean on? For me, that was a really big surprise after finishing the TransCon. I think I assumed when I got done it was going to change my life. Like life was just going to be easy, rainbows, birds chirping, all that good stuff. And reality was it wasn't that, you know, there was an immense amount of depression that came after. And I think the learning, what I learned from that is just the knowledge that it's coming. And so just being able to face it and be ready for it and learning practices of things that can keep me

balanced. Going back to, I spoke of NuCalm, this technology I was using, that's a big one. The way it works, it essentially clicks you into deep meditation. I don't know how to meditate, but this allows me to have a meditation practice. And that's helped me a lot since the Colorado Crush is just to find peace and serenity at some point in the day that can carry me a lot since the Colorado crush, uh, is just to find peace and serenity at some point in the day that can carry me through until the next day. Um, and then maybe looking towards another goal. It doesn't mean it needs to be the next week, but just start thinking about what it is. Cause it's good to always have something to look forward to, but don't hide from things by doing that, but get back in the game. Even if it just means training for the year until that next thing

comes around. For me, that's about sort of disassociating my identity from the results of my actions. So how I do in a race or how many copies of a book that I write, you know, how many, how well does that do? All that kind of stuff, like whatever goal it is that you set for yourself, if you become too tightly wound up about the result of that journey towards that goal, I think that's what leads to peaks and valleys

in terms of your emotional state. So I try to just focus on what is the next thing in front of me to do. So I'm not racing like Robbie or doing crazy ultra challenges like I was 10 plus years ago, but I'm putting out creative things. And it's easy for me to get very caught up in how that is going to be received by the public and then calibrate how I feel about myself based upon that. And the less that I do that and the more I disassociate and just focus on the work, the journey, the process, the fact that I just love like going out and running or, you know, creating something that I can share with

the world and focus on that piece of it and let go of the results aspect of it, then that seems to ameliorate those valleys that I would experience ordinarily emotionally. Hi. So sorry if you've touched on this already. I came in a bit late. But it's a two-part question on sleep. First of all, I want to know if you're doing anything in the realms of sleep and sleep science? Like we're having, we now have access to understanding what thermal control does for sleep, what sunlight does for our circadian rhythm. Are you doing anything to optimize your sleep? And also part two of the question is, are you wearing any data? Are you tracking any data using wearables such as WHRP or O-ring? Are you looking at the data? Are you optimizing from that data?

It's a sleep question. We could talk for hours on this, but go ahead. I think we both have one side of this. The sleep side, yeah, again, that's kind of the thesis of this summer's run was recovery. And what is the basis of recovery? We can talk about Normatec boots. We can talk about all this stuff, but it really comes down to rest. And I do. I use NuCalm.

It's this neuroscience technology, been around for 15 years. It started off as a medical device, slowly graduated its way into where you can get it for 50 bucks a month. And it brings your brain into alpha theta waves. And there, restorative sleep happens, or like restoration happens.

And I found this summer that it was the key to my success. The difference between me on the Transcon and me this summer, night and day, like on the Transcon, somebody had to bring my coffee every morning. They had to like scrape me off the bed and out the door. And then this summer I was making my own coffee and waking my crew up, telling them I was going to leave. And I think like that was a testament to this, this practice that I've gotten through this tech. And then also a little bit of it being that my body and mind have adapted to these big, big, big efforts. But it was something that I, I just missed so much on the Transcon and had no thought about recovery. I thought if I went

hard, I would fall asleep at night and it wouldn't be a problem. But the reality is you're so keyed up. Sleep came, it was just so hard. And this summer, being able to utilize that made it just that much, it was profoundly different. So yeah, that works for me, NuCom. I'm obsessed with sleep. I am convinced that sleep is the greatest mover in terms of performance enhancement. You can,

like Robbie said, you could talk about all these modalities, but ultimately the one thing that will help your body repair itself the most effectively is like getting an incredible night of sleep. And we all know that experience of waking up after one of those amazing elusive nights where you just feel bulletproof and thinking, if I could replicate this experience every day, like my life would just expand exponentially. I've experienced, I know that like as you get older, sleep becomes more and more elusive and I've gotten more and more conscious

about the practices that I undertake to try to take my best shot at ensuring the best night of sleep. Robbie's been like bugging me about NuCom forever. I mean, I can't tell you how many emails. He's like, you got to get on the NuCom. So I just got the kit. I haven't tried it yet, but anyway, we'll shelve that for now, but he's quite the evangelist of that. But I have gone to some pretty extreme lengths to get a good night of sleep. I live in Southern California, so I don't live in this climate, but I've been sleeping outdoors in a tent for like two and a half years at this point, like every night, like not occasionally,

like that is my bedroom. Like I sleep outside. I have a weighted gravity blanket. I've got the sleep mask. I do the periodized eating. Like I try all of this kind of stuff to put myself in the best position to, you know, have the best night of sleep. And I think it's super important. And it's kind of nutty, some of the stuff that I've done. And maybe if I start doing NuCom, I can move back into the house. I don't know what's going to happen. But anyway, whatever it is, like I I'll try it because, like, I just want to feel great every day. And I know what it feels like when you have a great night of sleep as an athlete, but also just in terms of how my brain works and how I feel and how I interact with other people when I'm well rested. Like, it's night and day.

Yeah, I have a question here. I was just wondering, talking about timing and especially like you like to sleep and you do an extreme amount of like workout. I can imagine there's a lot of people in the room who have busy lifestyles in terms of careers or having their own business. Where do you find the time to do it? And what's the transition of, you know,

when the restaurant scene, how would you go from having a really successful career to listening to like inspiring stories? How would you ever get there? Because it seems like you have to really step out of it if you want to go to the extreme levels, unless you'd want to keep it to just a hobby. I think for me, it's just like, what do you value?

You know, and like finding out what really does matter to you and what makes you feel your best and having an honest conversation with yourself about that and then pursuing it from there. And as far as budgeting the time for it, I mean, I want to feel my best and have the most quality experience possible. And if that's what it requires is eight hours of sleep,

then that's what I'm going to do. And I don't want to beat a dead horse, but the NuCom really helps me to do that. And it minimizes it. It minimizes the time you got to put into that. And like, yeah, I know, if we keep talking about sleep and it just keeps coming up. To add to that a little bit, I mean, I think there is this weird idea where if you want to do something that interests you, that it has to be super extreme or you got to quit your job or,

you know, kind of do this whole life overhaul. And I don't think that's how it works. It's not how it worked for me. That's what happened for Robbie. For me, it's just about paying attention to your curiosity. Like what gets you excited? What is that thing that lights you up? Being aware of what that is and then trying to, you know,

consciously give that energy within the construct of your busy life. And maybe that's 10 minutes a day to indulge yourself by watching a video about something you always want to learn about or whatever it is. It doesn't mean that you have to throw your whole life out the window

and pursue some harebrained dream, but I think it's about increasingly carving out more and more time to devote energy to the things that make you feel alive because life is short, man. And if you're not doing that, then you're missing out on a lot of beauty in life. So being open to where it leads you

is kind of how I've always done everything without judging yourself against some idea of what it should or should not look like. Yeah, it's like it's an evolution, right? Like just start doing those things that matter and more time comes for it if it's what you value. Hi, you both talked about your whys for or your purpose. I'm curious if you have any words of wisdom or ways that you've come to understand the journey of or process of defining or gaining clarity around your why. Mine comes through the running, through this free association. I mean, it's just like,

through the running, through this free association. I mean, it's just like, that's where I go to evolve these ideas. And again, it goes back to how I have to define something. I have to find it in my mind as being a part of who I am. And then once I find it, I can work on it. And I can, once the identifying it happens, then that can become a pillar of my why. But first I have to discover it and I discover it through running. Yeah, your question starts with this idea of like trying to identify what your purpose is, right? And that being a precursor to what your why is. I mean, I think it's easy to get caught up

in all this jargon and I've said this before, but I think a lot of these words like, you live a life of passion and find your purpose and all of that, I think it's very constrictive, and I think it makes people feel guilty or ashamed if they don't know what their purpose is or they're not living this idealized life of passion. And I don't really think about life in those terms or in that context. Like for me, it's just always been about trying to pay attention to myself, trying to honor and recognize when I have an impulse to do something, trying to evaluate whether that's something true

and that's in alignment with like a higher version of myself and then giving myself permission to pursue that. And that for me began with, I'm gonna go running. You know, it didn't have to mean some big thing or be a purpose-driven thing with a why behind it. It really began with a whisper and having the kind of self-respect to say, I'm gonna honor that whisper because I'm worth it

and my higher self is trying to communicate with me in some way and I don't know what that means, but I'm going to follow that. I'm gonna pull on that thread and I'm gonna see where it leads me. And all the other stuff gets figured out along the way. So for me, it's about trying to just be in alignment with that higher voice. And the more that I can live in that space,

then a lot of these other questions kind of get answered for me. Thank you. That's a lot of pressure. I don't know if mine's as profound. So my question is, 56 miles alone on the Colorado Trail versus thousands of people in Central Park for most of the time you're running. How is, what are like the easier and harder parts

of both of those efforts? Because even I've found like on the trail, you're alone, that's a much different thing than someone's trying to like push your pace 10 steps behind you for like an hour and a half. Yeah. Uh, well, central park loop challenge came at a great time. It was the first day of spring the year coming out of COVID bring on all the people you can, like I had not seen people in quite a while. Um, so that was just really nice. It was nice to have that. Um, there's so much good people watching to be done in the

city. And, uh, just like in the same way, it's like trying to spot a wild animal in the, in the mountains. Um, but, uh, both of them work for me. I think the duality of it's really nice to have a little bit of both. Um, that day on the Colorado trail, luckily, like I performed really well. Like I felt good for the majority of it. They're both just, you're out in the wild either way you look at it. Between the two. They're very starkly different, but there's

also a lot of similarities I guess. I heard you guys talking about just what loosely sounded like reaching for the best version of yourself, self-actualization, peace if you will. I would love to hear either of you guys relate that

to potentially in the past being in recovery and kind of like what that means to tie those two together of kind of not seeing that best version of yourself and striving towards it, strip away some of the bad and kind of seek out some of the new. Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. You know, in recovery parlance,

they say the road gets narrower, right? Which means things that you used to do, that you used to feel okay about, that you used to be able to get away with as you kind of trod this path towards greater self-actualization become less and less resonant with that higher self and have to be discarded, right? And it's kind of trod this path towards greater self-actualization, become less and less resonant with that higher self and have to be discarded, right? And it's kind of a bummer. It's like,

really? I gave up this and this and this, and now I got to give up this too? But you know in your heart of hearts that it's got to go, right? And so it's like this constant shedding practice of letting go of old layers, stepping into new versions of yourself, experimenting, figuring out what resonates with you, and trying to walk this path of deep integrity with self, which is a process of self-inquiry that only you are in a position to evaluate for yourself. So for me, yeah, I got sober in 1998. I've been around the block with 12-step and recovery and learned a few things along the way.

And I could tell you that the journey is not linear. It's up and down and all over the place. And some days are better than others because we're human beings and we're messy and we're not built like robots to function in a linear fashion. And, you know, I've had for every step forward, two steps back, trying to figure out, you know, the lower companions and behaviors that didn't serve me that involved not just substances, but all manner of, of character defects that I battle with and,

you know, behaviors that I used to indulge without, you know, thinking twice about that become more and more intolerable, the closer that you kind of get to becoming, you know, that version of yourself that you aspire to be. But I can tell you, you know, when I began the journey, I thought my life is going to be boring and I was going to live this, you know, life of deprivation and martyrdom like a sort of prison sentence. And my experience has been, you know, quite the contrary. I mean, the idea that I'm sitting up here doing this right now is like completely surreal to me because I never lose touch with how I felt and the person that I was back in 1998 when I was broken and alone and really felt like I had no future. And that hopelessness is something that I need to revisit

in order to kind of connect with the gratitude for what I get to do today. But my point being that when you blaze this path and you commit yourself to this ethos, which is very much a part of 10,000, better than yesterday, that your life will expand in lockstep with the level of commitment that you apply to

that. And it puts you in a position for amazing things to happen, you know, for that magic to happen, for you to be in the right place at the right time, for that thing that you always wanted that wanted to occur to actually occur. I can't back that up. Come on, Ravi. I really, that was, Rich is the wise one here and that was amazing. I think we're out of time. I just want to thank everybody for coming out today. It's Saturday morning, you guys have been doing anything and the fact that you showed up, you went running,

you joined us for this conversation. I just, my heart is full. I'm so grateful to be able to be here with all of you today. Thank you to everybody at 10,000 for not only supporting myself and Robbie, but putting together this amazing event for us to indulge in community on this level.

So I'm just happy to be here and appreciate all you guys. So thank you. Thank you.