The Rich Roll Podcast - ROLL ON: Stop Optimizing Your Life & Start Living It, Seeking Depth Over Algorithms, The Future of Podcasting, Artemis II, Media Diet & More

Episode Date: April 23, 2026

Roll On, al fresco! Adam Skolnick came over. We went outside and let the conversation breathe. No studio walls. No agenda. Just two guys, some birds, and a wide-ranging hang that covers self-obsession as the enemy of growth, the dork problem in modern podcasting, and why 14 years in, we're playing again. Then we roam: Geese, Turnstile, Mike D in a Malibu parking lot, Julie Piatt's Manger debut, Ed O'Brien of Radiohead in a church at SXSW, a joyride through Austin in the Rivian R2, the Dean Potter documentary, and Artemis II. Enjoy! Show notes + MORE Watch on YouTube Newsletter Sign-Up Today’s Sponsors:   Ollie: Fresh, healthy dog food made with real, human-grade ingredients. Use code RICHROLL to get 70% off your Welcome Kit👉🏼https://www.ollie.com/richroll  Freaks of Nature: High-performance everyday essentials–deodorant, sunscreen, hydration, and more. Use code RICHROLL to save 20%👉🏼https://www.FreaksofNature.com  Squarespace: Use code RichRoll to save 10% off your first order of a website or domain👉🏼https://www.squarespace.com/RichRoll  Go Brewing: Use the code Rich Roll for 15% OFF👉🏼https://www.gobrewing.com  Rivian: Electric vehicles that keep the world adventurous forever👉🏼https://www.rivian.com  Check out all of the amazing discounts from our Sponsors👉🏼https://www.richroll.com/sponsors Find out more about Voicing Change Media at https://www.voicingchange.media and follow us @voicingchange

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OLLL-I-E.com slash rich roll and enter code ritual to get 70% off your first box. Ollie, feed the obsession. Hey, everybody. Welcome to Roll-on Al-Fresco style. Oh, nice. How you doing man? Good to see you, man. Welcome to my backyard. This much closer. Thank you. We did a solo episode recently outdoors. People seem to enjoy it. And so why not do it again? Yeah, man. More is better, right?

Yeah, I might not leave here, by the way. After this, I'm going to use your gym and then your sauna and cold plunge facility. And then I might sleep there tonight. You're always welcome, but you should check the Airbnb app to make sure it's available. This is a bit nostalgic because, For years, we recorded the podcast at my house. You can't see it, but right off camera over there is a room where we recorded, I don't know, how many episodes up until COVID. And then we transitioned into a studio, but it's kind of nice to be back here.

I'm feeling nostalgic. We actually had some technical difficulties right before recording, which is part of the nostalgia, I suppose. Yeah. And it's nice, dude. I want to just have kind of like a low-key, casual hang with you. Okay. Which is part of this reimagination and experimentation and exploration that we're doing with the show these days. As somebody who's been podcasting for coming up on 14 years, we're breathing a little bit of fresh air into this experience.

And I'm having more fun doing it than I have in a long time by trying things and, recognizing there are no rules. When the podcast began, it was just all fun and adventure. And I was a traveling salesman with a case and I would go to people's houses and record in hotel rooms and conference rooms. I wasn't making any money. I never thought that it would be a revenue generating enterprise. And then it became successful. And then it became like this whole thing, like this engine. and it got easier and easier to just do it a certain way. And I think I lost touch with the experimentation and the trying of new things. The beginner's mind.

Yeah, the beginner's mind. And now we're in this new phase and it feels much more like play. And I'm enjoying it. Hopefully that's translating to the audience. And the solo episode. So it started with the looks maxing episode that we did. Right. That was experimental. By the way, how old is Zuma now? Five. Five and a half. So what is, uh, what's his relationship with looks maxing? Has he signed up for Andrew Tate's

Academy yet? You know, at his, at his age, at his age, he is still not really self-conscious, just a little bit. But like, in his age, you can't really, like, if you said something to him about his looks, he would just laugh and have, he'd have a good time with it. It wouldn't even, it wouldn't even phase him. So, so clavicular hasn't gotten his claws into Zuma yet. No, but I worry because he doesn't like boo-boos. So when he gets a boo-boo, he's very consumed with, when will the boo-boo go away? Right. Well, this is the beginning of his cosmetic obsession. Maybe. But clavicular has his way. But clavicular likes boo-boos. Apparently, well, is he in jail now? Like, did he shot an alligator and went to prison?

He did? That fucking bastard. So anyway, that story is only going to end one way. An alligator's going to get revenge. Well, the guy's like using meth. Anyway, that's a whole other story. You know what? My point being the experimentation started with this looks maxing episode. Right. And then I recorded these solo episodes. And these episodes are getting much more interest and engagement than anything that I've done in recent years. Interesting.

And that feels really good because they're fun and easy. And it just tells me, oh, it's okay to play. It's okay to experiment. Try new things. So we're outdoors. And I think... Roll-on was the original experimentation. That's true.

That's true. That's true. Which we started in the middle of the pandemic. Right. As sort of a parisocial hang. Yeah. And a way for me and you together, like for us together to like share our perspectives and take the lens off the guests a little bit. But even Roland started to feel very programmed.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what I've noticed as the podcasting space has evolved is a growing desire for a more authentic. a sense of something feeling just real and an emotional connection like a parissocial relationship because it's really crowded out there right now and I think that the days of getting a special guest on your show becoming like an event those days are over right and everybody has a million choices out there and even the notion of two people sitting across from each other at a desk, it's hard to get excited about that format. There's so many shows doing that and so much content out there.

And I think people want to just feel connected to a guest or to a host to feel like they're experiencing something that is, you know, heart-centered and real and parissocial, I guess, on some level. Like they're hanging out with their friends. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's what people always said about. That's why our core role on people like just hearing us talk about stuff. You know the other thing I realized?

What's that? So many of the podcast hosts who are in my kind of genre. Okay. Not all of them, but I'm saying there's a lot of them. These guys are dorks. Wait, first of all, let's unpack that for a second. What is your podcast genre? I wanted that one, no.

Personal development. You know, I think people misconstrue this show. Like I get positioned as somebody who's in the self-optimization, like, world. Right. I don't really consider myself that. Maybe that's how it's translating for a subset of the audience. But just kind of the self-help, here's a host who's going to have the author of the next book that's coming out or the expert on this or the expert on that. Self-improvement.

Yeah, self-improvement generally. You know, health, yes, but also psychological health, spiritual health and all of that. I don't see myself as in that kind of optimization vein. But there are other people out there who do something similar to what I do. Right. And I want to do something different, you know. I want to do something different. I feel it because...

And so this is kind of part of that experiment. Just to kind of piggyback on that, like, it's just gotten so kind of boring where like everybody wants to improve you or it's just like it's become uninteresting like what used to be interesting oh here's this uh academic that no one's heard of it has this interesting kind of mind-blowing perspective now there's so many of them and everyone wants to improve you and it's almost like you know what why don't we just all relax a little bit maybe the improvement we all need is to stop thinking about ourselves for a little while yeah yeah there's a navel gazing like self-obsession that comes with the self-improvement personal development space. And self-obsession

is an antagonist to personal growth. There you go. And so the narcissistic kind of egocentric aspect of being in this state or in this pressurized situation where you feel like you always have to be improving yourself, I don't think it's necessarily healthy. And I'm, you know, I plead guilty. I'm not only am I participating in this, I'm a purveyor of it. Right. So I've been reflecting on that. Stop guilting us with your 4 a.m. gym photos. Yeah.

I know. I'm a contradiction, Adam. But I think at the core of it, like if you dig down beneath all of the layers, like, what is driving all of this is a fundamental sense of being broken, you know? Right. And we always have to be fixing ourselves. what would it be like if you if you embrace the fact that you're not broken we can all improve but it doesn't have to come

from that place of feeling like there's something wrong with you necessarily i think the the real truth is that like it's all just a repair job like this whole construct of society you know i've been you're going to get into streaming later i won't bring this up then but i started to watch rewatch madman again for the fourth time and, you know, April's like, why do you like Don Draper? And why I like Don Draper is that he knows it's all a sham. That's what I like about him.

Like, it's all basically a sham, right? Our personalities we kind of tape together and the society could, could shatter. Everything is like hair trigger away from like going away. And we see that sometimes and feel it sometimes. And I don't say that as a cynic. What to me, it's like, that's just fact. And so improvement. doesn't solve that kind of existential crisis. What solves it is tuning into real moments.

And that's my feeling. And so like, I'm less interested in optimizing and I've never really been into optimizing or improving. I like the organic nature of connecting. That's to me, like, the only way to kind of get us through any sort of tumult. You need to get on the creatine. Wait, am I ponchy? You see it in the punch? I don't see, I see nothing but love and beauty. Thanks, Adam, when I look at you. Was that too cynical?

Was that too dark for people? No, I don't think so. I mean, Don Draper is a, you know, an anti-hero and somewhat of a dark figure with a nihilistic perspective. So it's interesting that you are connecting with him. I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have thought that. I don't see him as nihilistic. I mean, I understand why people think that. Like, there are no rules.

That's not what I'm saying. I guess what I'm saying is there is soul beyond all the construct. And we get caught up in the construct. And improving ourselves can be a very nourishing experience. And I've done it myself. And I strive to be better also. But like, what I strive more for is like that authentic feeling of connection and presence. And I think that lost in the nihilism.

of John Draper is a soul. And he does connect and he does understand the nature of things. Maybe it's just me projecting and maybe he is written as a nihilist and I should just but I think that's the perception. But I feel like there is a soul nature that the other people that he works with don't have that he understands and that's why he can communicate on a deep level as an advertiser. I don't know why we're talking about this old show. But like I guess what I'm saying is that's what is appealing to me more and more now like

than certain rules. for getting better or improving this or that because I think what we found is that there are all unintentional consequences of any improvement you know and so it doesn't always go the way you want it and life doesn't go that way it's not what it's about and so for me it's about I just want to encourage that connection and well there's a a heart-centered good faith desire to become a better person yeah and I think that commitment to yourself and the impact that that has on other people is valorous and worthy of your investment of time. But I think for many people, the personal development urge comes from a discomfort with the uncertainty of life. And so when you

think about what Phil Stutz has to say, these three truths, like, you know, no matter what you do, there will always be pain, uncertainty, and the need for constant work. And I think in this moment, we're experiencing an acute case of uncertainty. Like everything feels much more uncertain. I think things are always uncertain, but because of the way the world is at the moment, it feels particularly uncertain. And so what do you do with that uncertainty?

Uncertainty is uncomfortable. What can I control? Well, I can control my body. Maybe I can control my mind. Maybe I can control my emotions. And that gives you a sense of grounding. Yes. And so, but that's, that's sort of an unhealthy way to approach personal development.

Like, oh, if I can just optimize my morning routine or if I dial in my nutrition, then I can absolve myself of all of these uncertainties that unconsciously are making me deeply uncomfortable about life at the moment. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think you said what I'm trying to say, which is the uncertainty of life drives, like what is improvement, I guess is the question, right? is the improvement.

I agree. Like I go on noon once a year to like trim down. I have goals, personal goals, fitness goals and things like that. But I think I'm not sure that improves me. What I know improves me is meditating. What I know improves me is getting in the ocean. What I know improves me is connecting and being more diffuse. So it's like to me, this is just my opinion for me.

I'm not suggesting everyone should feel this way. But for me, the less I think of my. own bullshit, the better off I am. The more diffuse I am, the more I am the sky and the trees and the wind and the ocean, the more I feel alive inside. And that to me is self-improvement. I mean, to me. So I guess that's what I'm trying to say. And like the more we, we go away from self-identifying probably the better, at least that's my personal opinion. That's not as sexy as peptides. No, you can't take a peptide for that. But you can microdose. Yes, you can, actually. You just have to change the languaging around it, you know, to appeal to a certain cohort, right? If you switch it from being present or being service-minded into this is your, you know, this is your mindset optimization protocol then, and I don't know what the wordage would be, but you can drape it in a certain way. to make it sound like it is a peptide?

You know what? I had a nice life peptide the other day. So we do, Zoom and I do Breakfast Bros on the weekends. It's just the two of us we go out. But sometimes other people join us, and you don't have to be a dude to be a bro, so just so you know. But Breakfast Bros was just the two of us,

and we were sharing a blueberry muffin waiting for our plate of food to come. And I just got struck with one of those lightning bolt moments. We all have them, where like you realize, actually this is the only thing that matters. Like everything else I'm obsessed with in my life makes no difference at all. These moments, this moment here, I'm going to be thinking about this moment. I'm going to be, I don't think I'll ever forget a moment like that. And it's like,

and to like have that moment where you're like, whoa, that's all really it is, is collecting these amazing, valuable moments for our lives because they pass and then they're gone and then you're back into the obsession swamp. And then boom, lightning bolt. To me, like the more present you are, it doesn't mean you're fully present, like walking around like some light being. That's crazy. Like, nobody's like that. Maybe a few people. I mean, even Jesus probably had his shit list.

You know what I mean? Like people that pissed him off. But, like, if we can bridge more of those moments, be alive more often and collect more of those moments, like, that to me is kind of like blew my mind. And so it just got, you know, I don't know what it is. And I'm in this era where, like, what is important to me is that? And this, to me, what you're doing, what we're doing here is kind of that. You know, like what's the distillation of the podcast?

It always was conversation. It always was just sitting down and just talking and figuring out what's important to us in that moment. It's always been that way. Look at you. You're ascending, Adam. You know that's a look-smacking term, right? Ascending. I guess that's what you're ascending is Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

Is that what's happening? Yeah. Okay. And I have not microdose before this podcast. Don't worry, folks. Microdosing on love. On love. I'm macro dosing on love right now.

I love that. I think that's absolutely correct. And any parent can testify to that. I mean, you still have them. You're going on college. Yeah, I'm taking our youngest to the East Coast tomorrow to look at some colleges. That trips must be awesome. Yeah, it's like this is like the joy and the gift.

you know, like you get to do these cool things. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Freaks of Nature. If you're like me, active, outdoors a lot, prone to sweating tons, and into clean personal care products, then you probably have had a few experiences testing some of these products, only to discover they're great in theory, but underwhelming when it comes to actually working.

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And there's there's kind of grousing like, oh, it's not as cool as it used to be. And they leveled the convention center. So the event was more diffused. across Austin this year, then it's typically like more centralized around this convention center. And people were complaining about that. But convention centers aren't exactly inspiring. No. Places for, you know, idea exchange or like cultural artistic events. And so I actually thought it was cooler. Yeah. Because that meant all the events were in different types of, you know,

they were domiciled in all different kinds of buildings. It made it more interesting. It didn't seem to put a damper on the experience of. at all. Like I had such an amazing time. But I had this moment where in one day, I went and introduced Tom Sacks onto the main stage and got to say a few words and shower him in love and bring them up on the stage. Tom Sacks being a guest on the podcast, this New York City sculptor and kind of icon in the art world. Awesome guy. And he was so happy that I was there. He gave me a hug and he's like, I can't believe you. And it was like, are you kidding? Like, this is so cool. I can't believe you asked me to do this. Like, this is amazing. And then I left there and I went over to

the Rivian house and got to spend like two hours with RJ Scorange, the founder and CEO. And we got in a new R2 and drove around and it was all mounted with cameras. And we recorded kind of a comedians having coffee in cars or whatever that Seinfeld thing is, like a version of that. Yeah. And that was so fun. Yeah. I had such a great time. He's such a nice person.

Amazing. It was exciting to help tell the story of the release of the R2 vehicle for them, which is a great story. Did you guys do any carpool karaoke? We didn't sing. Nobody wants to hear that. Nobody wants to hear that. No? That video hasn't come out yet.

I don't know what's going on with that, but I'm sure that will come out at some point soon. Very cool. And then after that, I left and went. I went to a party at this bar in the late afternoon with Tyler, my stepsonant producer, and it was a party put on by a magazine slash production company called Monster Children, which is an Australian publication. It's sort of a surf skate, punk rock, sort of enterprise. eyes. And I went there to meet Ed O'Brien from Radiohead and Ed's son, who I'd met the night before, to just get to know him because later that week, I was going to be doing a Q&A with him. Amazing.

On the precipice of him releasing his second solo album called Blue Morpho. And this documentary that he made to accompany that record, which is all about this journey that he's been on with mental health. So in one day, Tom Sacks, RJ, and then Ed O'Brien, like, you know, of radio head, like my favorite band. I was like, how is this my life? Right. But I get to have these kinds of experiences and such a diversity of experiences, like a sculptor, you know, and like this guy who is reimagining, you know, automotive transportation.

And then, like, this musician in the most iconic band. of our lifetime. Right, right. It was just so cool. I just couldn't believe it was my life. And then I got to do... But it speaks to South by Southwest, what you're saying.

Yeah, it was like, it was great. I was like, I couldn't imagine of having a better experience, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I got to host this conversation with Ed in a church, like two days later, after screening, his documentary was screened,

and then it was basically his cathedral. And we got to have this conversation, and they had to have this conversation, and they had, adorned the entire cathedral with plants. And it was really about his mental health and his relationship to his creativity and just magical, you know. Wow.

It was really, it was such a cool experience. That is a cool experience. Yeah. I mean, like I said, it just speaks to South by Southwest still pulling in very interesting, creative, influential people, right? 100%. 100%. It feels more relevant.

Maybe this is just through my own personal biased experience or lens. but it does feel more culturally relevant than it has in the past, at least with respect to film, for example, like the Sundance Film Festival, that was always like the big thing. And I don't know if that feels like it's maybe on the wane a little bit. And the film side of South by Southwest feels definitely more important than it has in the past. Yeah, just, I don't know, it's cool.

And Austin's great. You're just in this place where you're right. riding bikes around, everything's five minutes away, and there's just so much going on. You know, like, you can't even begin to tap into, you know, two percent of what's happening during that festival because there's so much going on. I mean, you were on that stage with Ed, like when you do those bigger events, those bigger venues, do you get nervous? I always get nervous.

How do you calm yourself down? You know, deep breaths, you know, it's sort, but it's, it's not a bad, bad, bad nerves. It's, it's excitement because I wanted to go well. I want to make sure that I'm delivering for the audience and then I'm serving the person I'm speaking to and respecting them by being prepared and all that kind of stuff. Is he touring the record around? So the album comes out in May, I think.

So it's not coming out yet. But that conversation coincided with the release of a Rolling Stone article on Ed. that announced also that Radiohead is going to be touring again. Yeah. Which is pretty cool. And you were saying to me that people don't realize that Ed is foundational to the sound itself. Like he like kind of like John Fushianti without him that chili peppers wouldn't have become what they became. Like like all their best stuff came after that.

Yeah. When you listen to his solo album, you really understand his contribution to Radiohead. like he's the guy who's creating the entire kind of like sonic vibe of the band's sound. Like he's he's the sound designer behind the scenes. And he's somebody who has always been comfortable kind of receded into the background. And if you watch concert footage or see performances of them, you know, he'll be like leaning down, like turning knobs and like, you know, playing with wires and stuff like that. but less comfortable being forward facing. And this second solo album is the first time he's actually attached his name to his album.

Like his first solo album was just EOB, like he didn't even put his whole name to it. So he's sort of coming out and standing on his own two feet and like owning his talent and his relationship to music. And it's kind of beautiful to watch because in. Radiohead, and he said this many times, like, his job is to, like, serve the band and to, like, support Tom York's, you know, beautiful lyricism and that extraordinary voice. And it's scary to step outside of that and say, well, this is me, you know, outside of Radiohead. Yeah. And I don't think any of us could imagine, like, can you imagine being in a band that is that huge? but because he is sort of somebody who has always been more in the background,

he can still enjoy anonymity. Like we were walking around South by Southwest. And yes, some people recognize him, but a lot of people don't. Right. And I'm like, that dude's in Radiohead. Yeah. You know, it's crazy. You don't even know.

Right. Well, especially in this era where we all have different famous people anyway. Like nobody has the same famous people. But I will take what, pick one bone with you in saying Radiohead is the most iconic band of our lifetime, I disagree. Well, you're wearing a Nirvana t-shirt. Yeah. I mean, come on. Is it really a debate? Is there really a debate? I mean, not to me.

Like, to me, I think the greatest rock star since this, you know, in the modern, in the modern day, since the 60s, 70s. It depends upon your metrics. Yeah. Because it was such a short-lived band. Yes, yes, yes. You know, and Radiohead has this greater canon of work. And they're still going, you know, they're still doing stuff. Yeah, yeah.

No, you, yeah. But if you're our age, I mean, it's like, I love radio. I love radio. It's like, it's, you're wearing an iconic, like, GenX t-shirt, right? Like, you just, you're repping Gen X, you know? I'm a proud member of Gen X. I know, I know, I know. I know.

I know. I know. I know you are. And similarly, I'm wearing a Mike D T-shirt. You are. You are. And the reason I'm wearing this, and this relates to music, I guess we can kind of segue. Yeah.

is Mike D from the Beastie Boys, proud citizen of Malibu. Sort of an icon in Malibu? I never even knew he lived here. Oh, you didn't? I don't know anything. Dude, he's the man about town. Is he really?

Yeah. All right. Surfer, lifestyle, icon. Like, he moved to Malibu, and he's really all about, like, healthy lifestyle. When did he move here? Not long ago. Oh, forever.

Oh, okay. Oh, forever. He's lived her forever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But hasn't put out new music. in a very long time. Really? And he has a album coming out soon, Mike D5D,

and he did a live performance in Malibu last Thursday. Where at Trankus? No, on PCH, there's a surf shop called Brothers Marshall. Okay. You know where the general hardware store is, like right by Las Flores? Yes. They took over that whole parking lot,

and he performed kind of like an unpublicized. If you live in Malibu, you know kind of thing. like all Point Doom showed up for this. It was probably like 300 people. Does he live Point Doom? Yeah, it was in Point Doom. But it was all the way over there. But it was down at, like, Brothers Marshall was sort of behind it.

And the city of Malibu, like, you know, permitted this whole thing to happen. And it was super cool. Like, it was a community event. Like, all of Malibu was there. Rick Rubin was there. Yeah. You know, it was like a whole thing. Yeah.

But it was super cool. But before. Rick Rubin, didn't Rick Rubin do check your head? And, uh, I think you're right. We might have to check the internet for which records he produced. Was it check your head? The second and third. The Paul's Boutique, I think.

Did he do Paul's Boutique? Did he not? I'm not sure about that. We'll check the internet. Somebody can look. Logan can look and double check. Yeah, Rick Rubin was there. And the opening act was a band called Very Nice Person.

Okay. A very nice person. Look this up to. Very nice people. Very nice person. which is Mike D's son's band. Okay. Skyler and Davis.

All right. And it's a cool band. They performed at South by Southwest. Right on. They're young kids, but they're kind of coming up. And then they played with Mike D. also,

which was really cool. He's playing with his kids. And just to see Mike D. It's like LeBron and Brani, baby. Mike D is a very quiet, kind of introverted person. He's the Buddhist, right? He's the Buddhist.

He's the Buddhist. He was the Buddhist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He did a record. He did a Kirtan record many years ago with Bagan Doss. Okay. Who's the guy who married Julian and I? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, so, yeah. With Baganamangas or Krishna Doss? With Bagan Daz. With Bagan Daz, with Bagan D. But Mike D, I don't know him well, but I've met him a bunch of times. He's a very, you know, he's a very quiet, like, introverted person. Okay.

But then you see him on stage doing his thing, and you're like, this guy is a natural-born performer. Yeah. You know, and he's up there and he's, like, doing the thing that he was born to do, and everyone was so happy to see him do it. That's awesome. And he's got these new songs, and I don't know, it was like, it was super cool. So I'm rocking the merch.

That's awesome. From that experience. Mike Dee. You know, when I was a million years ago, when I was going door to door to people's houses to get them to care about the ancient forests and try to save the ancient forests, I was, Laurel Canyon was like prime territory because liberals and they had money. and I went up there and I knocked on the door and I'm like right out of college

and there's a beautiful woman sitting on like in the kitchen you can see all the way through the house and there's two women and they're looking at I'm like hey because I'm like you know hey come on I gotta sign my petition give money and it turned out it was Ione Sky and then all of a sudden Adam Horowitz comes out and sees me there

and there's like a production trucks out front it's like this whole weird thing going on and I'm just trying to get in there and get and he comes and he takes me he moves me away like he puts his hand on my ear and he moves me out of like view of his home and he's like what's going on here and I'm like oh we're just doing this thing man and uh he gave a hundred bucks he said get out of here he gives me hundred bucks and he goes away and then as I'm coming back down later doing all the territory one of the production guys comes up and says hey man um you know we're doing a party here tonight it's gonna be kind of a music video

party thing. It's frying you Skies record or whatever. You're welcome to come by, bring some friends, come over and come to the party. But I was so afraid of Adam that I didn't want to go. Dude, how could you not go? I don't know. I don't know, man. I don't know why did you go. You didn't have a friend to like talk some sense into you. A friend of mine in the group was like, dude, we got to go. You have to take me there. I can't go with that. I'm like, you go. Just tell it was you. You could have gone. Yeah, you'd be. that one. I blew it. Yeah. I blew it. What is your relationship

to music these days? My Spotify age is 110. Is that good? No, I listen to, I'll tell you what I listen to. I listen to, on the weekends, Alma del Barrio, that's KXLU, 89.9. It's a college radio station from Loyola

Lemuriamount here in town, and on the weekends, they play old salsa and Kumbia, all the old Latin music. So it's, It's been running for 50 plus years. It's the best Latin music show in the world. If you like Bad Bunny, this is the shit you should be listening to. It's unbelievable. And so if you're not familiar with it, but you like the beats, this is the place to go.

So it's 89.9.9 all day long. So I do that. And then I do Henry Rollins show every week. He's KCRW. And you can get both these can stream anywhere in the world. And so I do that. And KTRW is like a pod. You can listen to it anytime.

Amadal Bario, you have to be streaming while. what's going on. And then otherwise, it's kind of like Spotify and whatever I hear from these other places I save on Shazam. I Shazam a lot of stuff. The only new band, I know we were talked about as before, the only new bands. New bands is where I'm kind of like a little lost. Sometimes Henry Rollins will put some bands on. Great Australian band called TV Colors. That's new that I'm into. Geese is really cool. I got that from, I think, from Tiny Desk. And then wet leg. I like wet leg. But like my new stuff is like occasionally new stuff gets in there. But I'm a lot of times listening to old music, old jazz, old salsa, old rock and roll.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm obsessed with geese. I love geese. And Cameron Winter's burgeoning solo career. Unbelievable. That guy is off the charts. Yeah.

Talented. I can't stop listening to him. I know he's been sort of likened to his generation's Bob Dylan. Is that right? Time will tell. But, you know, he's so young. And the fact that he's playing solo concerts at Carnegie Hall and then touring with the hottest rock band,

you know, right now, it's pretty cool to see what he's doing. Yeah, and I didn't realize that he was soloing at Carnegie Hall. Yeah, and like Paul Thomas Anderson is, there's like videos of Paul Thomas Anderson filming him on stage when he was at Carnegie Hall. Is that right? Like this guy is like, and who is he touring with? Cameron Winter? Yeah.

He's the lead singer in Geese. No, I know, but who are they touring with right now? Oh, I don't know. I don't know. You mean, who's their opening act? I mean, they just played Coachella the other day. But they're not the biggest band. You said the biggest band.

They're like, well, they're not the biggest band in the world, but they're the band that's getting the most energy right now in terms of like new bands that are coming up. They're not that new. They've been around for a while. To me, they sound. But they're super young. I know. To me, they sound a lot like the strokes, to be honest with you.

Like, they remind me of early strokes. I think they're really iterating on that. Like, they're doing a lot of really interesting. new stuff. And it's just cool to see. Yeah, it is cool. Because there was a period of time where I thought, like, is rock over? Like, are we done with it? And then, you know, sure enough, like a band like geese comes along. Yeah. And you realize, oh, there's more to say here. Yeah, because EDM, EDM. Well, that's why I say like bad bunny, like all this, it all comes from musicianship. And you can tell with Cameron Winter, you can tell with yeast, the musicianship

is just top notch. And so, like, to me, like, it all starts there. So that's why I like, old stuff because that's when musicianship really mattered more. And so the more we get, I think the more things advanced technologically, I used to really like EDM when it was like more underground and stuff. And now I don't really listen to it ever. And so maybe I'm just this guy that doesn't like things once they get popular. It's very possible. That's true. I am that. But I like the grit. I like it to come from the earth. You know what I mean? I like it. I mean, rock and roll. What's cool about it is it's a mix of the two. Like you're saying with Radiohead, kind of creating that mood with electronic enhancement.

Yeah. That's cool. Never in a million years did I imagine that the world would start waking up to what I realized back in 1998, which is that life is infinitely better without alcohol in it. Giving it up isn't reserved for problematic drinkers, people like me, but it's actually something that benefits everybody. And at the tip of this spear is go brewing, the NA beer I love so much that I decided to become an investor.

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Most vehicles make you choose between rugged and refined. Rivian gives you both so you can adventure without compromise. at Coachella right now, Radiohead has this underground bunker. Really? Have you seen this? No. Yeah. And it's like going down into, I didn't see this personally.

I've just watched videos online. You're going into some kind of fallout shelter underground. Did you see Tenet, the movie Tenet? Yes. So you know at the end when they're kind of, they're doing the reverse pincher movement or whatever, and they have to go underground to the place to get the whatever. Yeah. It's kind of like that.

You go in this tunnel and you go underground. And it is this massive art installation, which I think is really cool, this merging of music and art because there's so much interesting art associate, like iconography associated with Radiohead. And at the same time, we have guerrillas, speaking of like semi-EDM, right, that is having this kind of kind of. kind of retrospective moment right now. They were on Saturday Night Live. They had this installation in downtown Los Angeles in the arts district called House of Kong.

Did you know about this? No, I didn't know about this. Similarly, this was like a temporary museum piece where you would go in to this seemingly dilapidated building from the outside called House of Kong and inside aligning all the walls, like you kind of

walk through this experience of the band with all of the all of the iconography, like all of the character drawings, starting from the first iterations of them and how it evolved over time. And so it's this merging of visual art with music that I think is really cool.

Well, I mean, that goes back to Burning Man, right? I mean, Burning Man and then it wasn't Cochella kind of iterating on Burning Man and making it a more commercial, like, mainstream music experience with art? It always had art installations. Yeah, yeah, I suppose. Yeah, Coachell always had that. I remember when Cochella,

Coachella, I don't know how much it costs to go to Cochella these days, but like early days, it was like a hundred, hundred bucks and you can get one day passes. It's a lot now. Now it's yeah. Now you need a certain number of Instagram followers to even be able to buy a ticket, I guess. Are you going? Uh, no, I've never gone. You've never gone? The boys have gone many times. Julie's gone. No. It's a bit much for me, honestly. But I like watching, I like watching, I like watching videos of it. I could tell a derelict Coachella story. Um, right now, but I'm not sure. Yeah, no. Sure. But I would say this. I've been stuck in my Gen X music bubble forever. Yeah. And I realize, like, I need to break out of this.

Like, it's just becoming, like, too repetitive. And I need to, like, in the same way I'm exploring a different relationship with the podcast, like, I want to explore a different relationship with music. And one thing you'll discover, like, Zoom is too young. Right. You're at the age where you're trying to impress upon him, your musical taste, I'm sure, right? Yes. But when they become teenagers,

they commandeer the music selection in the car, right? And then you have this opportunity to start to listen to what they like. And so I've been leaning into that. And what you realize is like, oh, your kids are the portal to like what's actually happening and what's cool

and like what they're interested in. And I've really expanded my like kind of musical interests as a result of that. And when I go into the gym on those early mornings, sometimes I'm preparing for a podcast and so I'll watch videos on the TV of, you know, some person who I'm going to be speaking to later that day. But if I don't have that,

I've been more and more just exploring music and like, oh, Jai Alexis Bam. Like, let's see what's on YouTube with this man or like watching, you know, live geese concerts or Tiny Desk concerts or K-E-X-P. Okay. Has a series of amazing, like, music, live performances.

I should check them out. Which is really cool. I love the, I love those local stations. And then my guy, Jack Coyne, who hosts this show called Trackstar in New York City, he has videos of, like, live performances in his studio. And I've just, it's opened my world to all these cool bands. Like, Geese and Cameron Winter are just one, like, turnstile, like, this super cool band. that I'm gotten really into that is kind of punk, kind of rock and roll.

They just had a huge show at Coachella too. And I think they're just so exciting and so energetic. And what I love about turnstile is in this age in which artists, creative people, musicians are being fed this story that the only way to be successful is to be just constantly releasing stuff, like putting new music out, like every week, a new song, a new music video, a new this, a new TikTok. These are guys, this band, went in the other direction. And whatever money they made from their live performances or whatever, you know, their music, they reinvested in the band. And they have made these extraordinary, like, music video documentaries that are executed at just

the highest level, like their art pieces in and of themselves that have just put them at a different kind of tier of craftsmanship. Okay. And their live performances are just, you know, so energetic. Like, and I just think it's really... Turn style. They're, like, taking this punk rock genre, and then they're adding this high level of, like, visual art,

this visual art, like, aspect to it. Cool. That I think is super interesting. And then, in terms of, like, other bands that I've gotten into, have you heard of Angine de Poitrine? No. So this is this Quebecqua like French-Canadian band.

Yep. It's just two people. And they dress up in these, I don't even know what you would call these costumes, but you don't see their faces. Like they're wearing these elaborate costumes and it's just instrumental. And it's the most interesting musicianship

that I've heard in a long time. So they're having like this moment right now where they're breaking through. That's really cool. Quebecois. Montreal, great city. So, yeah. And wet leg.

I love wet leg. I love what like. But there's, there's a lot of bands I've noticed also, like in this Angine de Poitrine vein, where they're, they're obscuring themselves. So they're anonymous. You don't know who these people are. Mass singer. Which maybe was started with with gorillas.

Yes. Right? Like being anonymous and creating characters, deaf punk, yeah, or marshmallow, I guess now. Yeah. There's another band called Kourangben. Yeah, I love Krohnben. Yeah. I'm super in the band.

They've been around a while now. They've been around. Yeah, but like, I'm discussing. discovering this. Zuma loves Krahangman. So there you go. So Zuma already. But you introduced Zuma.

But Zuma is very intentional. We already list. He already dictates the playlist, but it's cool stuff right now. But I think to your point is like he's going to, he's going to start hearing stuff. We have no idea about it's going to bring it to you. And that's cool. So it's been fun. What about this new band, Manger?

Big fan. Big fan. Well, this is the most happening band. The most happening band. Manger is my wife, Julie Piot's band. she just put out her first song in music video this past week. If you follow me on social media, you've enjoyed that. Yeah.

She's got more to come. And it's been great to see her step into this really authentic creative expression. Yeah. And she's so happy doing it. You know, like this is what she should have been doing a long time ago. And she's rocked it. She rocks, man. She owns it, dude.

She knows it, dude. It's pretty cool. Patty Smith, Cheryl Crowe, Julie Piat. You know, it's in that main. And you wrote that beautiful bio for her. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, it's all real. It's true.

And then to have your, you know, you guys, your family involved. It's amazing. Her son's involved. It's super cool. Yeah. It's super cool. And she said something the other day that's so true. Like, so we went and saw Mike D.

And he's playing with his two boys. Right. And then you have Jeff Tweedy, who's like touring with his kids right now. Julie's playing with her boys. Yeah. It's a thing. It is a thing. musicians playing with their kids.

Yeah, it's cool. That's how it goes, man. That shows you how old rock and roll is. But it's exciting to see, you know, Julie flourishing creatively and the kind of happiness that and the sense of satisfaction that comes with feeling like you're fully expressing yourself authentically. Yeah, and then also just the idea of music, you know, it's like, it's interesting. Like, I've been learning guitar last few years and just like, but I did, like I was a choir boy.

I sang all the way up to like to college. With the bells. I didn't do the bells. No, I didn't do the bells. But like, but then having music not really be my expression after that became more writing and then finding it again. There's something about like the music itself, just having the music in you and around you and you're making it is like it just like it just uplifts your energy. I think unless you're like doing it out of pathos, if you're doing it just purely. out of love, which is easy when you're new.

And she's made it new again, essentially. You know, like, and her whole story, amazing. Like, that her brother is a serious musician, her uncle is a serious musician, right? Like, so she's got it in the blood. Yeah. Yeah. What have you been watching?

Okay, so. Media diet. Media diet. Most recent thing I watched all the way through is something called the Dark Wizard, which is an HBO documentary series. that's coming online on Tuesday. So by the time this airs, it'll be out. It's all about Dean Potter,

the great climber, free soloist, base jumper, wingsuit pilot. And it's his whole story. So Dean was one of the, you know, one of the, after the stone monkeys, one of the, like the punk rock guy that came in and just blew up the Yosemite Valley

and right away was like free soloing stuff and nobody would even think of doing. And he was before Alex, it was Dean. but what you don't realize is that Dean was 6-6. I never knew that. Six-six. So there's advantages to being tall on a face, I guess, but there's also serious disadvantages.

It's kind of like a small person's game. Like, you know, this kind of thing. It's like gymnastics. So, like, there's a scene of him at the, like, soloing a route on the top of L-cap, that route that Alex has to wedge his body in and kind of shimmy up that crack. he's six six doing that.

Wow. Like, I mean, he's wedged and you can see the pain. And so, you know, it's a very, this guy is a beautiful soul, an artistic vision, a really amazing person. His journals, they have access to his journals. So his journals are just incredible. And so you get a sense of the, of his psychology. And kind of, he's one of those guys that had mood swings.

And so he was depressed a lot. But he also was a, was a groundbreaking athlete. So it's amazing to watch. I think it's four episodes. Yeah, four episodes. Each one's about an hour. And you go deep into it. And of course, it's a tragic end.

He died when he was 43 in a wingsuit base jump accident in Yosemite Valley. You know, when it was an outlaw sport, he's like one of the great outlaw athletes. And Alex is cast as the antagonist, which is, I think, refreshing for Alex also, but also kind of cool. How is he the antagonist? So basically when Dean is the, he's the king of the valley, he's the band, right? And then Alex shows up and he's a teenager living out of his van. And he just starts free soloing stuff that Dean, he's heard Dean wants to do and he does it before. And so, and then the cutaway conversations with Alex, you get a sense of the killer instinct that created this amazing athlete that is Alex Honnold.

You get a sense of it. You don't really understand why he's that way. Like, was there something? Did he show up? Was he treated obnoxiously by the cool crowd? Is it not? But one thing that comes across is, like, Dean is climbing from a lot of pathos.

Even in his early climbs when he does this amazing route, he's up there like, you know, howling like a monkey and making it very, very much kind of, there's rage involved. There's pathos. There's passion and love, too, but there's also this other stuff.

And just being around Alex and watching him climb and seeing it at the end, of free solo, he climbs from a place of joy. He just loves him. So even though he's the engineer, he's not the artist, like Dean is the artist. Dean is like the, he has this amazing artistic vision. Alex is more the kind of engineering guy that sees how to do something and then goes out and does it. But it's interesting to watch them both climb and see the difference. You know, it's funny that you think of the engineer guy is the guy climbing from love and this guy climbing from pain. but it does seem that way

and of course the dark you know Dean at the end you know he has this his relationship

with Ravens comes into play there's just like an incredible it's just an incredible film and he's just one of those iconic athletes

that was gone too soon four part series four part series and he died in a wing suit died in a wingsuit died in a wingsuit base jump with his friend um

um um Graham I forget his I'm spacing on it. They call him Granbo. So it's Dean and Granbo who die. They both are going for this notch from a place called Taft. Taft Peak, I think it is, or Taft exits and exit off Taft Mountain and Yosemite. And they're going for this notch. And Graham had done it before. Dean had not.

There's a competitive aspect of Dean that comes into play. And it's there with Alex. And Alex does outdo them. You know, Alex is the new athlete on the block that does take his place. And I think towards the end, he was the boss of the wingsuit guys. Like he revitalized base jumping in Yosemite. Dean did, and he had a whole crew. A guy that I'm writing about named Jeff Shapiro was on the inner circle with Dean at the last couple years of his life. And there was this amazing elite group of phenomenal climbers and phenomenal base jumpers and

wing suit pilots. And they were just raging across the valley doing this amazing stuff. And at first, Dean was against flying terrain. He wanted to fly long, high flights. But then he gradually got, as more people started doing these terrain lines, which is where you're closer to the edge, because you can feel the speed more. But it's also much more dangerous. He started to do that.

And he started to do these insane terrain flights. I mean, he was an amazing wingsuit base jumper. But then Graham, a younger guy who was his protege, started to do these incredible jumps. that that kind of perked Dean's competitive nature up again. And Jeff told me that that confirms that. The one thing, this is amazing. The one thing that doesn't come across that I think they show the video, but they don't talk about it, is the athleticism.

At one point, Alex references kind of free basing, which was freestyling with a base rig so that you have some safety net. They use some out of context quote of Alex kind of dismissing that. I'm not sure how much he really dismissed that, but they use that nice quote to make it seem. that way. But Dean, being able to fall off a face and then position your body where you're tracking away from the mountain, talking to Jeff, the athleticism involved of that is just next level. You see the footage of it. It's incredible to see him do it. But to actually perform that

is very rare. So you were talking about a, you know, iconic athlete in his own right. So you're working on this writing project interviewing lots of these. Wing suit guys, right? Yeah. What have you learned, like, what is the common, you know, strain across that ecosystem of athlete that is different from, you know, I don't know, the endurance athlete or the tennis player? Like, what's a unique about that subculture and that personality type that you've discovered? I'm not sure I've figured that out yet. That's a good question.

I hope next time when we're actually talking about a book that's out, I'll have that. that down. But like, I'm still, why you're, why you're interviewing them. I'm still very much in the reporting phase. What I will say is there's something about being close to death like that that makes you appreciate life, I think. And some, you know, talking to Jeff, I can tell you from Jeff's perspective, it, being close to that, it does bring into focus these moments that we talked about before and how rare and precious they are. And that's Jeff, though. He's a thinking man. You know, some of them are just chasing the, jason the fun. You know, there's definitely people who are just like, this is fucking awesome.

I'm going to rage, you know, like that kind of adrenaline rush. But then there's others that are a little bit of a mix. I think Dean was an artist. You know, there's an amazing shot in this thing where he is doing a slack line. He's also one of the early slackliners. And so he was, he walked solo to slack line in front of the rising full moon in Yosemite Valley, Cathedral Peak. He strung a sack line between the two kind of peaks of this mountain.

and and he's he's doing it and mikey shaffer who is part of the crew in taipei he shot it for dean it's one of the most beautiful things you'll ever see in your life this video footage it's just incredible to see the silhouetted dean in front of this massive moon yeah wow yeah so that's what i've been watching yeah that's the main thing that's cool i'll check that out yeah on the on the subject of like athlete nonfiction streaming content yes i did watch the maria wilson documentary on Netflix. Okay. That story is one we've covered,

we've covered here on Roll-on. Yeah. The story of the gravel racer, uh, Mariah Wilson, who was very much on the come up and was going to be, you know, like this just,

you know, phenom in that sport, being murdered in cold blood by the girlfriend of Colin Strickland, this woman, Kristen Armstrong. Uh, it's an insane story. It's like kind of perfect for Netflix because it's like true crime,

you know? Yeah. I wouldn't call it a cinematic master. But if you're interested in that story and that world, I think it's worth watching. What I took away from it was, A, just the premeditation of Kristen Armstrong going into this murder, like they track like all of her movements in the car and all this sort of stuff. Like, it's really bone chilling. And then second to that, and perhaps more importantly, the impact that it is that it has had,

not just on like Mariah's loved ones and family, but also on Colin Strickland, like this guy is, will never be the same. You know, of course not. You know, you kind of see him interviewed after,

in the aftermath of it. And, you know, he will carry that to his grave, you know, it's, it's, how could you shed that?

Yeah. Yeah. Other than that, what have I seen that's been good? Well, I saw my boy Dan McPherson's new movie beast. Okay. Which opened this weekend.

Do you know this movie? No, but I saw you post about it. So tell me about it. So Dan McPherson is a friend of mine. We've been friends since like 2012. Ozzy, former Iron Man, half Iron Man, endurance athlete. Well known in Australia, he was the host of Dancing with the Stars. Okay.

For a number of years back in the day, moved to L.A. to become an actor. Things weren't going amazing. He moved back to all. Australia and he's had some success since then. He's been in lots of stuff. He was in Foundation, HBO sci-fi show. He was on a TV show called Strikeback. He did a couple movies in supporting roles with Russell Crow. But Beast, he's the lead and he plays a mixed martial artist. Okay. An MMA fighter. Yeah. And he kills it.

And Russell Crow plays a supporting role to Dan, which is super cool. Yeah. And Russell was a co-writer on this movie, and I think a producer as well. And it's released by Lionsgate. And it's, you know, in movie theaters. And so it's just like a very cool moment for him,

for somebody who's been in his game for so long to finally be, you know, in a leading man role. So it's super fun. Congrats. He came over to the house this morning. We worked out. So it was great to see him. celebrate that. That is amazing. So I enjoyed that. He did a great job. And, you know, I know him as a guy I used to

ride bikes with and talk about triathlon. And then when he got this strikeback show, he bulked because he was playing like a special forces guy. So he got all like super jacked and bulky. But then he had to learn how to become a martial artist. And he spent three years like studying jujitsu and moitai and all this thing so that he could, you know, kind of really acquit himself well in this movie. And by all accounts, he has done an amazing job because all of these people in the fighting community are like that is the most realistic portrayal of our sport that I've seen on screen. So it's pretty cool. I mean like people like Mark Zuckerberg? Yeah, yes. The experts. The martial arts experts. The best guys. You know what? I studied boy Thai once. Did you?

I did. So when I covered Thailand for a lonely planet, I was living in Phuket for periods of time. And so Whenever I was there, there was a moitai gym near, and I would do it. But they kept trying to get me to do the grappling stuff. But, you know, Rich, you know me. Do I look like a grappler to you? You really don't. I don't grapple. No.

I do not grapple. You grapple with your emotions and your neuroses. That's what you, that's, you're a black belt grappler. When I'm grappling, something's going wrong. I want to flow. That's where I want to be. But isn't that what a Muay fighter does? Like at the highest level, you're in, you're flowing.

Yeah, yeah. At the highest level, grappling is flowing. That's the thing. That's what I haven't figured out. Flowing is grappling is flowing. Now we're in a, we're like in a, we're in a vortex going to nowhere in this conversation. Let's go to the moon. Yeah.

Let's go to the moon. Let's go to the moon. So what do you have to say about Artemis, Adam? I loved it. You know, we made it a family moment to watch the launch. We watched the launch. We watched the splash down. I didn't, I wasn't fully listening to everything,

but there's a great podcast I was tuning into 13 Minutes Presents, the BBC podcast that was a cool little, it's a talky show with a British astronaut and then some science journalists, and they talked about everything. And so they kind of brought more perspective on a daily basis to what was happening. I mean, I just think it's a,

I think like the main takeaways for me are like, I am a lunatic, meaning I love the moon, right? The language of these things, Lunatic sphere of influence. Is that the origin? Yes. Is that the etymology of the word lunatic? Yes.

People who love the moon. Is it that they love the moon or is it that like the full moon is like, yeah, it's like, yeah, it is like, yeah, it's like howling at the moon. Yeah, yeah, yeah, moon howler. So lunatic sphere of influence. So at one point, Artemis crew went beyond the influence of the gravitational pull of earth and into the gravitational influence of the moon. So it was under the moon's sphere.

of influence. I didn't know that that was the thing. Sphere of influence. What does that mean though? I don't understand. It means you're under the gravitational influence. Yeah, I understand that, but why is that? Well, you've heard of the of the phrase sphere of influence like, you know, somebody like rich, were your sphere of influence. I see what you're saying. You're saying that is the etymology of that phrase. Must have come from the Apollo times. I'm guessing. I mean, it comes from physics. And then free return, another cool phrase because after they, so the the crew went up, they were closer to earth. They got they approached the moon. Then they,

they did an interesting slingshot maneuver around to get on this path to go around the far side of the moon. They're the furthest away in space of all time. And they get the amazing eclipse shot and all of that. And then they get on this path to where they're on the path of free return, which meant even if they'd run out of fuel, everything went bad, they were coming back to Earth, which is interesting to think about like how physics works, like these smart people that all the math, That's one thing that I got from that podcast. All the math, all the physics, everything that you hear about, what's it for? It's for this kind of stuff.

It makes that possible to get back on that path of free return and to get back. And so, you know, there's so many little moments, the naming of the creators. But for me, like, I love the Apollo program. I have Earth Rise in our dining room. You know, like I have a print of that. So I love this stuff. And, yeah, it was a cool moment. I did think on the way when they splash.

down. I felt for them because they splashed down and all of a sudden they had to reboot their sat phone like they couldn't call anybody. And then it took forever in the Mid-Navy to do their thing. And it's like it's like coming off of a transcontinental flight and then being stuck on the tarmac for like an hour and a half. Yeah. There's something so relatable about the very minor challenges that they faced. Yeah. In the context of just the grandest, you know, like most exquisitely executed mission ever. They landed in exactly where they said they would, like within seconds of what they predicted, right?

Right. Everything was just nailed to such a precise, insane degree. But they did have, like, certain challenges. But then they still couldn't get out for like, yeah, they couldn't. So I saw a really funny tweet about this. Hold on. This person, Leah Crane, who I don't even know,

it just came up on my timeline. She says, deeply, deeply hilarious that everything on the Artemis 2 mission worked perfectly except Outlook, a conference call, and briefly the toilet. Which is just like any office workers, you know, experience, right? Like, oh, they have the same, their issues are the same as mine. Yeah, that's brilliant. That's brilliant. Yeah, that's brilliant. But I think there's just something, you know, beyond just how.

The extraordinary the whole thing was, and you were more locked in on it than I was. Like, I watched the splash down. I didn't watch the launch, and I wasn't following it that intensely. But here are a group of, like, middle-aged people who are just, like, good people who are smart, who are doing a cool thing. And there's a wholesomeness to it and a hopefulness and an optimism that is, like, exactly the prescription we need right now. Yeah, it is. You know, and like, I just appreciate that and I'm grateful for that. Like, I just think it's, I think it's super cool.

And they named, they named a crater after the crew chief, Reed. What's Reed's last name? Maybe Hastings, I forget. But his, and then they named it for his wife who died of cancer, like a couple years before. Colleen, I think. Colleen, yeah. The two things I want to say is that they risk their lives. It was a one in 20 chance that those heat shields wouldn't work on the way back because they were

flawed heat shields and they'd had in the test flight. And this crew of four people still did it. Now, why would they do it? People would ask, you know, some former astronauts were saying they shouldn't have done it. And that NASA was being unnecessarily risky. But, you know, one thing I will say from interviewing these wingsuit base jumpers and then I think I just got pooped on by one of your birds, but in a good way. We're Al Fresco. It's good luck.

You know, what you realize is these people will go for it. Because if this didn't happen now, it would happen two years. years from now and these astronauts might not get it the chance again so this was their chance and it was a one they'd figured it out from the data a one in 20 chance and that was enough that was good enough for them and so they risked their lives man it was not like i mean it's easy that they're back now and it's it was always working so it seemed fine but like they had just they had CO2 scrubbers that were getting that you know it's like a rebreather it's like living in a rebreather like these diving rebreaters that don't have bubbles where you what you breathe out get scrubbed and serve back to you as

oxygen. That's what they were breathing on. So they had backup tanks and everything if they had to get back. But they were living off these these CO2 scrubbers and and they were risking their ass. I mean, it's very, very interesting. And it's also cool like you're saying in this era of the United States where we're waging war right now, a needless war that is, you know, that is causing all this kind of repercussions from and it seems like almost mindless the way it's been executed and and lacking in humility and and thoughtfulness. You know, if you're, going to go to war, I would wish you were humble and thoughtful about how you're going to execute it versus rash and maybe stupid. And now this is the other thing the United States is executing

this amazing, thoughtful, peerless experience of the deepest we've ever done. So it shows you the capability of this country in both ways. And it's kind of like encouraging, but also makes you kind of feel like, wow, we're very schizophrenic, like all countries are. Yeah, the polarity. Like the extreme polarity of like what's happening politically and, you know, globally in terms of global conflict and like this war that we're in and all the insanity that's happening right now. And then this just incredibly uplifting thing at the same time. Yes. Like it's a weird schizophrenic situation. Like it's a yes and kind of deal, I guess.

But here's where they tie together. There's like this dominance, this, this lust for dominance that is. is at the core of our culture that has always existed in the United States. And I think Trump is part of that and all of this is part of that. But also, like, NASA's part of that. Like, Artemis' goal is to get close to the moon so we can build a base on the fucking moon. I mean, it's crazy. Like, it's crazy.

I don't want a base on the moon. Do you want a base on the moon? I'm into space exploration and, you know, ultimately, long term, like, expanding the horizon for our species. But I'm not into just replicating the mistakes that we're making here elsewhere. You know what I mean? So if you watch that TV show like for all mankind,

like it really explores that idea. And what was that beautiful Brad Pitt movie that's about his relationship with his father where he- Gattaca? No, no, no, no, no, no. Ad Astra. I just re-watched Ad Astra like a month ago. and it's the same thing

they go to the moon and the moon is just fast food restaurants and like you know it's just we just export like our culture like you think it's going to be different and the same you know

turf wars and territorialism and we're just replicating our mistakes right so right this is the point you're making that's the point I'm making and like by the way not for nothing using a rich phrase the moon does influence our tides which is like the ocean

and the weather and everything. It's like, let's be careful with the fucking moon. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, it is part of this biological system. So let's have humility. You know, it does take balls. So it's not like humility is always the best play. It does take incredible guts and strength and focus.

And I appreciate those things too. But like, I think to be really strong, you have to have humility. Like, I think often force is mistake is mistaken for strength. And strength is something totally different than that. It includes humility. And so, you know, that's my only concern. My only note, my only note for NASA is like, make sure we're humble about this. But that's not NASA's remit.

You know what I mean? Like their remit is to do the exploration. I know, I know. Like, you know, the rest of it is up to, you know, us in the government, I suppose, right? But we haven't answered the most important question. The whole purpose of this Artemis II mission. which was to put the test to the flat earthers. Have we put the nail in the coffin

of the flat earth movement with this? Definitely not. You know, somewhere there's a flat earth what is the argument? What is the flat earther argument now? I'll tell you, somewhere there's a flat earth or listening to this being like,

I can't believe Richie M. are falling for this Artemis bullshit. Like, that didn't happen. So it just didn't. So basically it's just, it's saying like this was another Stanley Kubrick-esque, like, you know, Hollywood production. and none of this happened.

Do you know where Stanley Kubrick was the day of the launch? Is he still alive? Maybe he directed it. Oh, right. He directed it from beyond. Are we there yet? Is this where we're at? I don't know.

I don't know. Let's end on a hopeful note, Adam. All right, ending on a hopeful note. Yeah. Splash us down. Okay. With our damaged heat shields. Take us to safety.

Well, I think, you know, the takeaway from Artemis, from the astronaut's perspective that I've seen, is the same as the time. take away of almost every, you know, experience from all the astronauts. It's that when they're up there, they fall in love with the beauty of the earth and the, and everybody on earth. And so, you know, you see, when you're out in the vacuum in the void, you see what we have so clearly and it's so beautiful. You know, it stands out so incredibly. And so, I mean, I think that's where I'm at. It's like, let's enjoy the beauty of what we have because even though some terrible things are happening,

terrible things have always happened, like we've said. And so I think that's the takeaway for me. It's the same thing I said at the beginning of this episode, which is I try to focus on the moments of beauty because they're sublime. It's not just one beautiful thing that doesn't matter. It's like everything. And so the more deep we can be in those moments of, you know, nirvana.

And Artemis was a moment of nirvana for all of us together that we could share in, then all the better. So, you know, thank you to NASA and everyone for doing that because it's beautiful. Artemis II was a one-upper to Alex Honnold's type A one-on-one climb. It definitely was. They really won up to him with that, didn't they?

They really did. But it is the consistent refrain of every astronaut who has had that experience when they come back and they're like, when you have that perspective of the Earth from such a distance, you realize, oh, it's a spaceship. We're all on it together. It's so small.

We have more in common than much more in common than our differences. And they repeat that. And we understand that intellectually, but there's something so experiential about that. Like, because it's so moving for them, like, it changes them. And I wish we could be changed just by hearing them reflect that back to us. Yeah. Like, we get it.

Right. But we don't get it like. They get it. No. And if we did, maybe we would be better at resolving those differences and avoiding going into poorly conceived global conflicts and, you know, killing each other unnecessarily. You're bringing us down again. We've got to bring us back up, which is that there are moments like that.

Life is for the person to experience. Life is to be experienced. To the tie, the wingsuit, to Alex, to this, to the astronauts, to everything we're talking about to your, to what we were talking about at the top of self-reveillance. improvement. Life is a sport. It's an active sport, right? It's a sport for the people in the game. And so that's, I think that's the takeaways. You can find those moments of connectivity. They're available to you here on earth all the time. You have to seek them out, though. They're not going to necessarily bite you. Maybe a few times in your lifetime, something will smash you

on the head, some realization. But you can decide that I'm going to go sit by the sea, walk along the river, walk through the farmland, you could find a way to connect with the beauty of the earth every day of your life. I encourage it. I think there's nothing more empowering than just sitting down and watching the world go by sometimes. That's what I think is the most important thing.

And I wish more people would do that. And not just the world, not just like in a cafe, although everything's wildlife, really. We're all wildlife. But like if you can get out to some place where nature is really showing itself, you can have those moments yourself. I love it.

You did it. You splashed us down beautifully. More evidence of Adam Skolnick ascending. I think we did it, man. Thanks for doing this. Thanks, man. I love this. This is cool.

We're out here. It's amazing. I felt more present with you in this one. Yeah. Yeah. To be continued. Thanks everybody for tuning in. Thank you.

Till next time, peace.