The Rich Roll Podcast - Roll On: The Medium Is The Magnet

Episode Date: August 25, 2022

Welcome to ‘Roll On’, the semi-bi-weekly version of the podcast where we ramble on matters of interest across culture, sports, art, literature, politics, self-betterment, and more. As always, my co-host is Mr. Adam Skolnick, an activist, veteran journalist, and David Goggins’ Can’t Hurt Me co-author. Adam writes about adventure sports, environmental issues, and civil rights for outlets such as The New York Times, Outside, ESPN, BBC, and Men’s Health. He is also the author of One Breath and still uses the ‘new dad’ excuse to avoid working on his novel. Today we celebrate episode 700 (700!) with an update on personal goings on, cover headlines from the world of endurance, share highlights from recent travels, banter on wealth inequality, answer a few listener questions, and more. Today’s episode is also viewable on YouTube Show notes:+ MORE: bit.ly/richroll700 Specific topics discussed in today’s episode include: Rich’s recent visit to London; centenarian Mike Fremont’s meal plan; headlines from the world of obscure sports: swimming, ultrarunning & freediving; thoughts on 20-somethings prioritizing experience over career; the cultural implications behind the recent attack of Salman Rushdie; wealth inequality (and the Sydney Sweeney backlash); culture war profiteering; the impact of the internet on journalism, discourse & focus; and fun In addition, we answer the following listener questions: How do you balance accomplishing your goals with meeting the needs of your loved ones and family? Is it unrealistic to look for a partner that aligns with all of your values? Today’s Sponsors: GoMacro:100% sustainably sourced plant-based ingredients, GoMacro bars are organic, vegan, gluten-free, and delicious.Visit gomacro.com and use the promo code RichRoll for 30% OFF plus free shipping on all orders over $50. LMNT: A science-backed electrolyte drink mix with everything you need and nothing you don’t. Right now LMNT is offering my listeners a free sample pack with any purchase—that’s 8 single serving packets FREE with any LMNT order. Try it out at drinkLMNT.com/RICHROLL Whoop: The world’s most powerful fitness tracker is now waterproof. Get the WHOOP 4.O at WHOOP.com and use the code RICHROLL at checkout to get 15% off. Birch Living: The best, most affordable, organic, and sustainable mattresses on the market with a 100-night risk-free trial. For 400$ off ALL mattresses visit birchiving.com/richroll. Thank you to Adam from Fort Collins and Anita From New Zealand for your questions. If you want your query discussed, drop it on our Facebook Page, or better yet leave a voicemail at(424) 235-4626. Peace + Plants, Rich

The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey everybody, welcome to Roll On, where after a mini globetrotting respite meets writer deadline schedule delaying clusterfuck, the boys are finally back in the lime green chairs, me here and across from me over there once again, the vertical blue to my horizontal pinstripes, the chef to my chef.

Sorry, I know I told that joke last time, but I had to hit that one again. If you know, you know, if you don't, I don't know what to tell you. Mr. Adam Skolnick to break down matters, important and trivial. So today we're going to regale ourselves and probably nobody else with an update

on personal goings on. We're gonna recap some highlights from Leadville, the Bahamas, Rome, London, Manhattan, many global ports of call. We're gonna do a bit on wealth inequality. We're gonna perhaps share a few things we've been enjoying respectively. If we have time, we probably won't, we will see.

Of course, answer a few listener slash viewer questions and much more. So before I toss it over to you, Adam, there were a lot of tweets and comments and DMs because we were off our biweekly schedule without going deep on what biweekly means. People demanding their roll on, wanting to know if I was scouring the earth in my travels,

looking for Adam who was hiding, demanding their Skolnick fix. So happy to be across from you today. And I wanted to kick it off by bequeathing you with your first fan letter, fan mail that came here to the studio. Fan snail mail? Yes.

More fan mail for Skolnick. From the St. George's school, building fine young men, one boy at a time. There you go. Well. Maybe open that later. We'll open that at a different time. Yeah. One boy at a time. There you go. Well. Maybe open that later. We'll open that at a different time. Yeah.

Thank you. The reason for my pinstripe suit today is of course, because this is episode 700. You look great. 700 episodes. And I'm glad that I'm doing it with you. We can celebrate together. You've been a big part of,

how many have we done at this point? How many roll-ons? I really don't know. I would say probably 30 or 40. You think? That many? Maybe not, maybe 25. Yeah, maybe 25 or so.

Somebody out there count and let us know. We'll figure it out. I could probably look. I have it somewhere on the wall of my cell where I live. I scratch it. In shock. Yeah, cause I get out. With your fingernail.

I get out for this. We put you back in your cell. Yeah, I can come out to work and then I have to go back. But when you go back, you're just reading and studying and preparing for the next role on. That's all I do is I focus. Exclusive, yeah. Yeah, I go to sleep with one of those eye masks

and the eye masks have the shape of this microphone. And that's all I see. See, I would prefer like some sort of Google glass contraption. Would you? Where you're reading all the time, developing material for the show. Interesting.

And maybe some earbuds where you're listening to conversations and podcasts. So you're just consuming as much content as possible and synthesizing it during your REM cycle. You don't want a hype man, you want a cyborg. I want a repository of wisdom and information. But instead you got me. Yeah, but you know.

I find it funny that you are scouring the earth looking for me when I never leave now all of a sudden. All of a sudden I went from like never being in town. I never go out of town. Are you looking for Adam? Like, where is he? Is it like a where's Waldo thing? I'm always in the same place.

You're easy to track down. I'm too easy to track down. And generally available. Like if I call or text, you pretty much get back to me right away. You can't be too busy. You know, I'm busy. You have other things.

At some point, hopefully we can talk about the other things that you've been working on. Yes, we will, we will. It is funny though, because it's been for so long, a lot of my work life was always out of town. And to be so, like, I feel civilized. You're an adult. I know, but I don't necessarily like it.

Yeah. We're planning on next year being a travel year. Next year is the travel year. We're gonna do some trips. So, you know, we've done a few little jaunts, but we're gonna do some proper trips hopefully next year. Yeah, you went to Mexico. Yeah, we did that.

We did that. I mean, that's... But you're a lonely planet off the beaten path, Atlas Obscura kind of guy. You know what I'm doing now to fill that niche? I just finished watching the first season of Parts Unknown. Of Parts Unknown? Yeah. Going back.

It's the only, cause it's the only season available on HBO. Living vicariously. Yeah, just what I'm doing. I wanna be up to the minute on things for you. So I watch news from 2013. That's what I like to do. Well, Parts Unknown,

does that s you are, you know, wild hair desire to be exploring or does it make you feel more anxious about being at home? So I don't feel too anxious about it because there, you know, for every time there is a season or every season there's a time, whatever, it's the way it is, but- It's all about turning in there too.

But it definitely like wets my appetite for like to get out there. And you know, Zuma loves to cruise. I mean, he loves traveling. We went down to North County, San Diego just for five days. He was like happy to cruise like anywhere we go, whether it's Marina Del Rey, La Paz, whatever, he is just always ready to like walk around

and walk ahead and look around. And he's now just recently gotten more social, but for a long time and even still has it, he has this thing that I call 50 shades of adios. And that is when people come up to him. This is like a new book. He's a cute kid, right? I mean, come on.

I mean, listen, I know I don't put him on social media. Just trust me. It's not me as a parent saying it. He's objectively a cute kid. Of course it's not you as a parent saying it. Yeah, he's objective. Completely objective. It's an objective thing. And so sometimes people come up to him

and they wanna lean down, oh, hi, hi. And he'll say, adios, because he's bilingual, adios. That's what he says. And they think a lot of times they think it's cute. They think, oh, he's so cute. Cause when a cute kid speaking Spanish, they think it's very cute. I take them to the bakery. I said, what do you want today? The bakery is always croissant. By the way, kid loves croissants.

The guy comes over. Yeah. What can I get you? Adios. That's what he says to the guy. And, but sometimes like you call, we talked last night, he said, hola to you. And then when it was time to say goodbye, he says adios in a nice way. So sometimes adios means goodbye. Sometimes it means take a hike pal. Like fuck off. Yeah, take a hike. Well, what I hear in that is, yeah, on the one hand, it's sort of the infants version

of I bid you good day, sir. Yes. Right, like get away from me. But also there is a flexing of healthy boundaries, right? He's like, I don't need you in my space right now. Right. Yeah. He's like for him. And sometimes it's not like, it's kind of a nicer audio.

It's like, adios and he just turns and bails. So it's not always you have to leave, but I feel like it's- All in the inflection. It's kind of how cameo when we hear noise in the next room, you know, I've heard him do it. He goes outside and he's like, hey pal, adios.

I've heard him do it. Little New York energy. Yeah. But yeah, so that's happening. Went to the Red Hot Chili Peppers at SoFi in late July. He'd been gone a long, we haven't been able to tell you. Did you watch that untitled documentary that April found?

I didn't, I've been meaning to watch it. I love the lore of the Red Hot Chili Peppers. And I've actually been thinking about them a fair amount because I spent a little bit of time with Rick Rubin recently. We did a podcast that will be coming out, not for a while, not until the new year. And of course he's worked with them extensively,

including on the latest album. But I know you're a mega fan, right? Well, I wasn't always, April is, but I wasn't always, but because the problem with me when I was a young snot is that if you were popular, I automatically didn't really want anything to do with you. You know, like as a band or a film or whatever, I was that kind of an obnoxious guy, but I always enjoyed the music. It's fun music, party music, but I didn't realize

how much I actually probably aligned with them because I didn't pay attention too much to who like Anthony and Flea were and all that. And obviously I think of Californication as their best album. That's my personal opinion. It's my favorite. Yeah. And it's, it's, they're 37, I think when they're recording that record and touring around with it. So it's like, in some ways it's like, they've gotten to this kind of place of greater wisdom and still creatively just incredible and a lot of energy.

And so I know all that retroactively because I've just been enjoying the music more recently since I've been with April, but April's like obsessed with them, knows everybody. Like I didn't know the whole thing about John Fusciante or any- Fusciante. Yeah, Fusciante. I didn't know about his whole ordeal

and what he went through. That guy's a genius though. A genius. And like, just the fact that, so now that I'm looking back and kind of a late, like a late blooming super fan, which I guess I am, April found this great YouTube documentary that was, I think, unreleased.

And it's all about touring behind the Californication record. There's a documentary people may have seen called Funky Monks, which is about blood sugar, sex magic, recording that record. And that's really good. But this other one is like another level.

Like they have Chris Rock comes in, Woody Harrelson makes a cameo, Julia Butterfly Hill, who was in the top of the tree. She's in it. They bring in like Buddhist teachers. They bring in all sorts of people and they talk to them in basically the green room backstage. And they have, I mean, it's a phenomenal piece of verite and I love it. It's so weird and quirky and you get to know who these guys are a little bit more. And, and so I recommend it. Well, you should put, we'll put the link up. Put the link,

put the link in the show notes and I'll make a mental note to watch that. It's, you know, I mean, whatever you think of the Red Hot Chili Peppers, clearly they're, you know, one of Los Angeles' greatest rock bands of all time. Like they are Los Angeles. I think they are the greatest band in history of LA.

The Doors would be up there. So you'd have the Doors, but the Chili Peppers really personify LA in a way that the Doors do not. The energy of Los Angeles. Like it is impossible to drive down Melrose and pass Fairfax High School without thinking about those guys.

Cause they all met there when they were like 14 and have been together ever since. Well, the two guys did. And then the other, the first guitarist. Flea and Anthony met there. And their other guitar Well, the two guys did. And then the other, the first guitarist, right? Flea and Anthony met there. Yeah, and their other guitarist, the original guitarist. Yeah, I met Chad, spent a little bit of time with Chad.

We were both at like an event at the Nantucket project a couple of years ago. Anthony's sober, like I think, and he's Point Doom, I'm pretty sure, or somewhere in Alabama. Yeah, I know he's kicked around there. He's local, he should be here. I've never met him, I don't know him.

He's kinda sit in this- Flea's the guy I want in the seat. He's gotta get both bad. His memoir is incredible. I have it right over there. I'm reading it right now. Yeah, it's amazing. I love it.

It's a beautiful book. Yeah, it's so strange and weird and quirky and funny. I know. Yeah, it's great. And the Hillel thing when Hillel passed and then John Frusciante became the guitarist and then he had his problems and was gone. And in his absence,

I felt like the band never really could find its groove, and having him back in the band is like a pretty cool thing. I'll share one Red Hot Chili Pepper story. So they played at Stanford, it must've been 1986. I remember going to a concert. It was outdoors at the outdoor amphitheater there. And this was during the like freaky styley days. When they really were just like this party band,

like starting out and the concert was in the middle of the day and there couldn't have been more than like maybe 200 people there. Like it wasn't a heavily attended thing. It wasn't like a must see situation. And it was in the era when they would play with the sock, basically naked with the socks on. Yes.

And they're up there doing that. And I just remember Hank Wise, my friend, Hank Wise, who I swam with at Stanford, who is the guy who left the voicemail. We talked about it. He has the record for fastest Catalina channel swim. Right. He's probably 52 now or something like that.

He's just a character and like a beautiful. We gotta go swim. I love Hank. We gotta go swim with him. But Hank is an extreme extrovert. And Hank just got up on stage and put the sock on and like danced and did the whole thing. Like I'll never forget that it was unbelievable.

But I would have not have thought at that time that they would become this like super band. That's funny I have a story like that with Fish in 1991 in Vermont at like some gym, you know, like community college gym, I forget what it was, but yeah and you just never guessed that they'd take the world by storm. But you know, the show was phenomenal, really great,

but it wasn't cheap. And I will say like back in the day, you could go to a concert and you just buy the ticket face value. And if you called early enough, you'd be like right in the front row for like 15, 20 bucks. And now like there are hundreds of dollars for a seat to get anywhere in that stadium. But that's, I guess, the economy of things. I mean, it does play into

what we're gonna talk about later. Like I love to see these bands, you know, getting paid and doing their thing. Very, very expensive now to just go to a concert. Back then it was normal to go to concerts. Yeah, you go to concerts all the time. It wasn't a situation that would break your bank to go see a show.

No, no. Yeah, so that gets into the wealth inequality stuff we'll talk about a little bit later. But yeah, so that was great. And SoFi is a beautiful place. However, it's kind of like Orwellian, like, you know how in Dodger Stadium, no matter where you are,

you know how to get to where you need to go because there's signs everywhere and you can figure out the system. In SoFi, no matter where you are, you have no idea get to where you need to go because there's signs everywhere and you can figure out the system. And so fine, no matter where you are, you have no idea where you are. I haven't been there yet. Yeah, it's kind of an interesting. Is that intentional?

I don't know, it's like a tech campus that like you go in. But it was great show. You guys should see the tour. I'm hoping they come back through in the backend, promoting the new album. They've just released like two albums in six months. So yeah. How's the fitness?

Fitness is good. You know, I think I ticked it up a little bit. I've been doing like 25 miles of running and three to four miles of swimming every week. And so that kind of has, I think I've even lost a few pounds and feeling a little bit, I'm not fast, but I'm faster.

Yeah. Yeah. Good man. A little bit. From dad bod to father figure. I thought that's your next book. That's pretty good. I can't take credit for that.

I saw that on social media somewhere. Like somebody, like it was a t-shirt or something like that, but I thought that was pretty great. It's okay. Yeah. Great writer. Speaking of which, we got a shout out our boy, Dan Drake. Oh yeah. Creative director here at the RRP.

He just celebrated his one year anniversary of working here. He moved his entire family from St. Louis to participate in this show. He's been an incredible value add to the team. And over the course of the past year has lost 40 pounds. It's amazing. 40 pounds without the team. And over the course of the past year has lost 40 pounds. It's amazing. 40 pounds without really even trying by his words. Like he just went plant-based

because he was in this environment and the 40 pounds slowly melted away. Isn't that amazing? Yeah, it's pretty incredible. So that's what happens when you embrace this thing that we're doing. That's what happens when you come here. Dad bod cannot exist in this environment.

No, from dad bod to father figure. Another dad bod to father figure. Rich, let's cut the bullshit. How the hell are you? Well, Adam, in honor of this week's podcast guests, Susan Cain, the queen of quiet, the champion of introverts and all things melancholic. I am here today to channel my inner introvert

into a short burst of extraversion just for you. Yes. Is that like- You know Susan Cain? No. She's great. Yeah, so you're not up to, you didn't listen to that podcast

that we just dropped this morning already? Come on, man. Oh, the one this morning. From this morning. Yes. You had a couple hours to listen to that podcast that we just dropped this morning already? Come on, man. Oh, the one this morning. From this morning. Yes. You had a couple hours. That's a great one. On your way over here.

I love that one. Anyway. Yeah, you know, I've been spending most of my time, Adam, unsubscribing from email newsletters. Is that a warning shot to not launch a newsletter? Here's the thing. Like I realized that somewhere on the internet, you can find my email address.

Like it's not that hard. Right. And so I receive like 200 emails a day, 95 to 98% of which are newsletters that I did not subscribe to. Oh wow. Somehow I just get added to this. And so I'm in this war of attrition with,

it's not necessarily spam because it's not like, you know, somebody trying to scam me out of my money or anything like that. Just like newsletters I didn't subscribe to. So literally I spend, like I'm committed now to see how many I can unsubscribe from. But I unsubscribe from like anywhere from five to 20 every single day.

And it doesn't seem to make a difference because the next day there's a whole new zombie onslaught of newsletters that I have to unsubscribe. But there's something weirdly satisfying about just methodically unsubscribing every single day. The hidden battle. That's my obsessive compulsive outlet.

The hidden battles we all fight. Yeah. You should revoke their newsletter licenses. Can you do that? Well, I'm always, then I feel guilty. Cause then, you know, like when you unsubscribe, sometimes it says, why are you unsubscribing? And you have a choice of like, you know,

I usually just say, I never signed up for this, but you always have the option to, you know, report them. Right. And then I'm like, should I report them? I don't know. No. Like they're just out there getting their hustle on. Yeah. It's okay.

Show great concern and do nothing. I'm not gonna report them. Just unsubscribe. Vote with your subscription. Quietly unsubscribe. The challenge becomes when you're getting a newsletter from somebody who's a friend. Yes.

Who's got a product or something like that. And then you're like, should I unsubscribe? Like I get it, I'm a fan, I like it, but I don't need to get an email every two or three days about this. But then are they gonna know that I unsubscribed? Is this gonna be- They'll know. They will know.

Create a complexity in my relationship. I once had a little thing back when I was a single man with a woman and it didn't work out. And I kind of unfollowed, you know, as you do, but this person did not unfollow. And she had a great business that I was a fan of. And I got the newsletter, but I didn't like being reminded cause it didn't work out in my favor

in that particular time. It was worked out for my favor now, but at the time I was probably a little bit hurt. And so I was like, you know, I don't want this person's email, but I thought I didn't want her to see that. I didn't know much about email subscriptions and I didn't want to hurt her feelings.

Yeah. So I unsubscribed. And then the next thing, you know, like I'm down like a couple of, like the business unfollowed me. She unfollowed me. So they know. Yeah, you got weaponized.

Yeah. Meanwhile, subscribe to our newsletter, of course. Yes. Yes. If you wanna be up to speed on all of our podcasts that we're releasing. And you know what? If it's not providing value for you, you can unsubscribe.

Yeah, you'll check. I don't think that, I won't even know. No, you definitely won't know. And I can't be unsubscribing from all these newsletters and then be mad if someone else subscribes. You're bigger than that. You're not perusing this description list. Anyway, one of the reasons that we haven't done this

in a bit is I was overseas. I had a speaking event in Europe, which was really cool. And then spent a little bit of time in London, which was great. Stayed at my buddy, Sasha's flat right on Portobello road, which was like amazing. Like right in the thick of it, the weather was like perfect.

Over a nodding hill. Yeah, exactly. Like right, if you've seen that movie, like literally right in the middle of like where that whole thing took place 30 years ago, whenever that movie came out. And just got to enjoy myself, see some friends. I did a couple of podcasts.

I hooked up with John McAvoy for round two, which is amazing. And Tony Riddle, the barefoot ultra running phenomenon known as the natural lifestylist. That was great. Those are old school audio only podcasts as is the one I did with Rick Rubin. So you have those to look forward to.

Old school style, no video, no nothing. All the noise from the street and everything else that happens when you kind of do the traveling salesman podcast. Bringing the kit with you. But it was great to see them and just be a tourist and enjoy London. And I just wanna thank everybody who like stopped me

and said hello, lots of podcast fans out there, lots of Skolnick fans. Really? Passing on there. Did you hit Otolenghi? Does Otolenghi have enough vegan options? Did you go? No, I had most of my meals at a place called Pharmacy.

Oh, cool. Which is a really beautiful, amazing plant-based restaurant. Pharmacy with an F. Pharmacy with an F, yes, of course. That's like farm to table. The owners, Camilla Fayad, who was out of town, I was hoping to meet her, is the owner and has like apparently her own farm

where they basically grow everything that they serve in the restaurant, all that kind of stuff. Also happens to be the half sister of Dodi Fayed. Oh really? Which is interesting. So there's a little, you know, kind of like, UK pedigree built into the whole thing.

And they have this whole movement around healthy eating and regenerative farming and all that kind of stuff. So that was like my spot. And as I mentioned, I stayed at my buddy, Sasha's flat, long time listeners of the podcast will remember a podcast that I did with Sasha, Sasha Gervasi and Jamie Dornan, the movie star, we did that, that was episode 398. It was a while ago.

And that conversation was around a movie that Sasha wrote and directed called My Dinner with Irvay that starred Peter Dinklage that was on HBO. Sasha's a screenwriter and a director. And the flat that I was staying in is really like his office, not his home, but he was out of town and I was able to stay there, which was fantastic. And the reason I bring that up is that I have a podcast

with Sasha coming up that's going to release on the 26th of September. And it's around a documentary that Sasha made called Anvil, the story of Anvil. Did you ever see this documentary? No, but I saw your Twitter thread about it. So this is what's cool. So Anvil is the story of this heavy metal band that was on the precipice of breaking big

and then never really made it, but influenced all of these huge bands that became wildly successful. And yet they never gave up on their dream. And Sasha kind of caught up with them in their late 40s and they were still rocking out and making albums every year or whatever, but just playing pubs and working blue collar jobs

to pay the bills. And he made this beautiful documentary about their pursuit and their refusal to give up on their dream. And it's an indie doc that he self-financed that ended up becoming one of, it's considered one of the great rock documentaries of all time.

It's a real life spinal tap and it's really beautifully rendered. And it came out 13 years ago. I did a thread about it on Twitter, which you can see if you're watching life spinal tap and it's really beautifully rendered. And it came out 13 years ago. I did a thread about it on Twitter, which you can see if you're watching here, I'll link it up in the show notes, but it's really a thread about what it means to pursue

like an audacious dream and never give up. And it's the story, it's kind of the parallel story of this band Anvil and Sasha's career as a writer and director. Like I said, he self financed this documentary 13, he was making it like 15 years ago. He premiered it at Sundance to great, you know, reception and applause,

but no buyers wanted to distribute it. And I think he might've had one deal on the table that wasn't so great. And he was like, fuck it, I'm going to basically release it myself, which in film parlance means you're kind of DOA. Like if a distributor isn't gonna put it in theaters, now it's different with streaming.

This is before streaming. It was considered like a lunatic move. Like you're gonna pay to put it in the theaters. Like if you do that, maybe you window it for like a couple screenings, but it's too expensive. And he was able to, you know, kind of bankroll a little bit of a release and the movie went on to great acclaim.

Like, so by taking that risk, it really established his career as a filmmaker and the film Anvil, because it was successful, gave this band the career that they had always sought. So they kind of both succeeded as a result of this. But it was still a small movie. I mean, people, it's sort of unanimously beloved, but it kind of came and went.

Right, it wasn't like searching for Sugar Men or anything like that. Right, but it sort of prefaced all of those movies. Like before Amy, before Sugar Men, like there was Anvil. And all like the rock and roll community loves it. Like there's tons of bands, Sasha has a million stories of bands that just play it on loop and their tour buses.

And you know, they just love the movie. But the reason I'm bringing this up is that during the course of COVID during lockdown, for some reason, somehow Gen Z and millennials unearthed this movie and discovered it and started just passing it along to their friends. Really? And it became like a thing, like Anvil became a thing.

It was discovered by this younger generation. And that kind of outpouring of love and support for the movie suddenly like made it relevant again. And this distributor called Utopia has stepped in and they're now re-releasing Anvil this fall in theaters across the country and overseas. Like that never ever happens. Like an indie movie from a decade and a half ago

is getting re-released in movie theaters when barely any movies end up in the movie theater anymore. It's a really cool story. Very cool. So not only is Sasha, one of my best friends who opened up his home to me when I was in London, I'm trying to help him celebrate the release of this movie, which is coming out September 26th, I think, as I said.

Yeah, the week of the 26th. And that's when this podcast with Sasha and Lips and Rob from the movie is going to release. So I have two band members, the two main guys from the band and Sasha. Fantastic. And it's just, you know, it's insanity. All right. These guys.

So you have that to look forward to. I can't wait to listen. Anyway, and thank you Sasha for letting me stay. Do they play? Do they play a number? No, but they're oddly, particularly Lips, you know, he's now like an aging, Toronto dwelling, heavy metal, headbanging rocker who still wears exactly what he wore

when he was 22 years old. Of course, of course. With like his own band t-shirt and he's got the fanny pack and like the whole, and the hair and the whole thing, but he's so charming and endearing. And he's sort of this, he's the self-help guru you didn't need you knew.

He's got all this kind of like crazy wisdom. Some. So it's really fun. Some identities will never perish. That's right, right. So that's that. A couple quick things. I was in a Porsche commercial. I saw that.

Yeah, which was cool. Where's that? Check that out. I put it up right there. Listener viewers. I don't know if we can play this on YouTube without getting into trouble, but I show up like a minute into it. Does that mean you're gonna be driving an E-Porsche?

I would like to be driving an E-Porsche. I am not driving an E-Porsche. They didn't sweeten the pot with an E-Porsche. It's like, it shows up. That photograph deserves an E-Porsche. That photograph was taken by David Zammett. Thank you, David. Anyway.

Look at you out there with hawking and. Yeah, man, good company, bro. I don't know who that chess genius is. And I wanted to thank everybody for the outpouring of love around the Mike Fremont episode, the centenarian slash- Amazing. Multiple masters, world record holder in all kinds of running affairs.

Like I feel like the world fell in love with that guy. Like it's just a beautiful thing to see- How could you not? So many people excited to hear from somebody who is a hundred years old. And like I said, in the intro to that episode, like I don't think we do a very good job in Western society of celebrating our elders

and respecting the wisdom that they have to share. And I feel like that podcast did, it was like my small part in trying to rectify that. And it was just cool that people really cottoned onto him and loved what he had to share. And you know, it's hard not to love him. You know, he's great. It's what makes your podcast what it is,

you know, like that you find these amazing people and put them on here and like get to hear from them. And sometimes they have a following, but sometimes they're just really interesting human beings that have a lot to say and share. Yeah. Do you think the reason that we don't treat elders as well is because when we were like six and seven,

our grandparents bored us with really boring stories of the old days that are actually not boring, but we thought they were boring. And then we hold it against the elders. Do you think that our generation was unique in that? No. That's historically probably always been the case, right? But in earlier days, like we kept our elders close,

like we lived in a village and they were always there and they helped with raising the kids. And there was an intimacy to that relationship that is now more rare than common. You're saying they weren't chucked into the nursing home. Exactly. Yeah, it's fucked up what we do here. Yeah, it seems off.

Yeah. Yeah, do you wish you lived in a village? Yeah, I mean, when you think like, when I think back, like some of my happiest kind of living circumstances were communal, like being in a dorm in college or living in a house in college with a whole bunch of friends. Like, I don't know that I would wanna do that now,

but there's something about like being part of a group, you know, in a living situation that holds a lot of it. A crew. And I think it's deeply embedded in our DNA. And now we define success as cloistering ourself in a large home at the end of a cul-de-sac and separating ourselves from each other. That's exactly how I define success.

That's how you're living. I'm a cloistered man. Yes. I agree with you. Well, you should tune into the Susan Cain episode. I'm going to. Learn about your introversion, Adam. I would call you an introvert

who can be periodically extroverted. You know, I used to be thought of as just pure extrovert, but I think I've always been an extrovert with like this deep vein of introversion. Yeah, maybe it's the converse of me, like more extrovert, but you can't be a writer or be in love with writing without having a serious streak of introversion.

This career has completely warped my personality. I had a really winning, bright, happy personality before, and now I'm a cranky old fucker. That happens. I share that. Can I just ask one thing before we get to the break? Cause this is something different. It's not even on our run of show,

but I feel like we should talk about Salman Rushdie in just two minutes. Before we do that, okay, before we do that, there was on the Mike Fremont thing, I don't wanna close that out. There was a reel, a video that I put up where I believe I like asked him what he ate and he kind of said, I eat, you know,

like a whole food plant-based diet. And there were a lot of comments like, tell us what you actually eat, right? And in the longer podcast, he goes into some detail, but he only gave like one or two examples. So I think he had self-awareness around not fully answering that question. And he sent me an email saying,

here's a full like picture of what I eat. And so I copied that email and I created a Google doc out of it that gives, you know, a pretty robust rundown of like the Mike Fremont diet. So I'll link that up in the show notes. I'm not gonna read it, but it's like two pages long of like various meals that he enjoys. So if you wanna get on board on the Mike Fremont diet,

hit that link. Be like Mike. Yeah, be like Mike. Be like Mike. Right, Mikey, he likes it. Mikey likes it. All right, Salman. Yeah, Salman Rushdie, obviously the tragedy happened.

He was attacked. Fought was apparently never go away. And he was attacked by a crazy person driven by, you know, I guess. Extremist ideas. Extremist, but extremist religious ideas. And he survived. So there was a moment there where it looked pretty dire.

Like he wasn't going to survive. So the person who did that failed, let's put that out there, failed at the job, which is great, but also because he's so strong. But anyway, I just thought, being an intellectual like yourself, you might have some thoughts on Salman. I mean, it's interesting.

It's been 30 years of fatwa on him, right? And it took that long for this to catch up to him, but that fatwa in him, right? And it took that long for this to catch up to him. But that fatwa, you know, in the minds of someone who inhabits that level of religious zealotry has never wavered, right? And so finally it occurred and it's shocking, but also we shouldn't be surprised. Like this is the modus operandi of, you know,

a certain way of seeing the world that is antithetical to our liberal democratic perspective. So it's shocking, it's shocking. It's also something that I think all writers or people who are participating in public discourse need to take note of, especially as the world, seems at least from my perspective to be descending into a certain level of dissonance and chaos

that I don't remember in my lifetime. And it's disturbing. The zealotry that is going on, obviously when it comes to this kind of thing, it's real life and death stuff, but then there's also the zealotry of controlling women's bodies. And then we also have this increasing zealotry

of political ideology, which is not the same, but it's still there. And so liberalism is about being able to express everything, right? And so we have to check ourselves against this zealotry and the beliefs we hold so strongly. And we can't let these beliefs necessarily define our worldview because when you do

and you become more and more myopic, then you just go into this funnel that can lead to a pretty dark place. So yeah. Yeah. Well, those funnels seem to be tightening. They do these days. And there's more of them. Yeah. Yeah.

But good for, you know, Solomon Rushdie for, I mean, he survived it, man, what a bull. And so wishing him well. Yeah, wishing him well. All right, let's take a quick break and we'll be back with more from Mr. Adam Skolnick and myself. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with

treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care, especially because unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices. It's a real problem. A problem I'm now happy and proud to share has been solved by the people at recovery.com, who created an online support portal designed to guide, to support, and empower you to find the ideal level of care tailored to your personal needs.

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or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. You know, we were just talking in the break, but Salman Rushdie's attack was not the first time, right? The Japanese translator of Satanic Verses was killed. The Italian translator was attacked and survived. The Norwegian publisher was attacked, shot three times, I believe, survived. I think seven, eight, nine people died in protests

around satanic verses. So when you see all of that, you gotta wonder, like, you know, obviously you can't hold the writer responsible, that's crazy. But like, you do wonder, like, how does that weigh? Like, what do you think about that? Like writing something that leads to so much of that, it's, I can't even imagine what that feels like.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's quite treacherous. And I feel like the threat level, like, you know, has reached a different Def Con than in past years. Like everything just feels very heightened. And, you know, there is fear around, can I say this? What will happen if I say this? And it's a weird horseshoe politics thing,

because I think that applies on both sides of the political spectrum. Obviously, the left historically being the champions of free speech and now the left being in favor of certain curtailing of free speech and the right shouting for broader free speech protections. It's just a very strange time. Except when it comes to what you teach kids in school.

Right, then yeah, bring it all in. Right. You know what I mean? Like, when the search warrant was executed on Mar-a-Lago, it's like ban the FBI, except when it comes to trans issues, like sick the FBI on them. Right. I'll tell you, you know.

It's issue specific. When those agents showed up at Mar-a-Lago and ruined our perfect morning out on the links, it was treacherous, man. I can't imagine like how they would go into such a, I mean, it was such a perfect day at Mar-a-Lago until that moment. Right, I know.

Yeah. And listen, Adam. What? I know there's great temptation to go down the Mar-a-Lago until that moment. Right, I know. Yeah. And listen, Adam. What? I know there's great temptation to go down the Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump, or Alex Jones trial rabbit hole. There's a lot of delicious schadenfreude to be enjoyed with all of that.

But let me tell you something. I heard something from a writer you might've heard of called Yuval Noah Harari. Oh, yes. Yes, I heard something from a writer you might've heard of called Yuval Noah Harari. Oh, yes. Yes, I heard him speak. And he said something that really has stuck with me. And I actually have been thinking about it every single day.

He said, don't be a profiteer in the culture war. Yeah. In other words, like don't be a content creator who is trying to monetize strife. Right. Or be a participant in this kind of ongoing is trying to monetize strife. Right. Or be a participant in, you know, this kind of ongoing battle for hearts and minds.

I think there's a distinction here because obviously if you have a platform and you feel strongly about using that platform to speak your truth, you should do that. But that's different from knowing how to activate people or antagonize them and doing it from, you know, from a motivation place of profiting, you know? Yeah, I agree with him and I respect that.

However, it sounds like he's never brunched with Alex Jones over at Mar-a-Lago and that is a wonderful experience, let me tell you. Talk about a brunch. Do you think that that brunch would exceed the experience of sitting down for brunch with Alex Jones and enjoying however many Bloody Marys he might enjoy? You know, I wasn't-

We're not gonna go there. I wasn't a guest. We're not going there. I just wanna say I wasn't a guest. This is endurance corner. I wasn't a guest at Mar-a-Lago. I was just there to scoop ice cream. Sometimes you take out of town jobs in this business.

That guy opened up an ice cream place in Manhattan. Did he? Yeah. It's called Ketchin. I forget what it's called. What's the guy's name again? He's friends with the Scooper. Yeah. The Korean vegan.

She went there for the opening. So it's nice that he took his ice cream fame on TikTok and translated it into a storefront. Brick and mortar. Yeah, brick and mortar. Going reverse. Let's get him on the pod. He would be goodfront. Brick and mortar. Yeah, brick and mortar, going reverse. Let's get him on the pod. He would be good actually. I know he listens.

Now I feel bad that I don't remember his name. I'm with you in the, don't fetch the low hanging fruit of the culture wars. Yeah. Nobody needs us to do that. No, I really don't wanna be a muck raker in that arena. No, but can we joke about it though? Yeah, of course we always can.

But we're here today, Adam, to talk obscure endurance sports. That's what we live for here. I know, right? This is the sports news you didn't need. I feel like, yeah, we're not participating in the culture war, but what we are doing is forcing down people's throats,

a lot of people's throats, tiny sports that most people don't care about. This is the sports cast you never wanted. Ready, let's start. Rich, throw it over to you. Well, we're gonna start with one of the larger sports. We're gonna start with swimming, a sport close to my heart, Adam,

because a young man from Romania called David Popovich at all of 17 years old broke the world record in the 100 freestyle going 46, 86 at the European championships. He's the youngest 100 meter freestyle world record holder. There's lots of videos on the internet of this race. If you're on swimming Twitter, which I am. Of course everybody is.

I follow that guy that you love so much. You know, like his underwater form is like the most beautiful, unbelievable thing ever. I just pulled up a video of him like swimming. It's like, it's just perfect form. But to be 17 years old and break that world record. Cause if you're, this is the thing. And I talked about this with Malcolm Gladwell.

Like if you're that young, how many years of hardcore training do you have under your belt? Not very many. No. So how is he going so much faster than anyone ever has before at such a young age? What do you think the answer is?

I think it's like the advance of the human species. Like this is how world records go, right? Like obviously there's advances in training and nutrition and recovery and the like that inform all of this. But you know, it's just cool that when you think a world record will never get broken or there's some ceiling or bar that would prevent, you know, a human from ever doing a certain thing

and then they do it, we're all kind of uplifted. And a good looking kid too. Super good looking kid, obviously, a huge bright new star in swimming. And we need that. This kid does. I mean, we have Dressel and we have Katie. Right, but Dressel's in the twilight of his swimming career.

And he just did something in a 25 meter pool at like the NCAAs or something. He broke some hallowed record. Was that the 200 or the 150? I can't remember, he's broken so many records. What's really cool is they just did this thing called duel in the pool that they do. I don't know how often they host it,

but it's a duel meet between Australia and the United States. And they do all these wacky events. And they fire off like flame plumes and they try to make it into like a spectacle. And they did this like a 200 IM event, but you got to choose the order of strokes. Oh, really?

So like they dive in and one guy's swimming backstroke and one guy's swimming freestyle, one guy's swimming butterfly. So they separate dramatically over the course of 200 meters. And then, you know, the guy who's like finishing with breaststroke against the guy who's finishing with freestyle, who's 15 meters behind him. Like, is he gonna catch him?

You know, it's pretty cool. What would your order be? I mean, that also goes to the Malcolm Gladwell thing of like, how do you make these more obscure sports more interesting to a mainstream audience? And I think being creative and like letting go of tradition a little bit and, you know, experimenting with some of that stuff is fun and cool.

Would you do the different order? Would you, it's usually backstroke first, right? It's usually fly back, breast free. Yeah. And they do like really short races and, you know, just stuff that's like fun. We could talk about that more, but that's all. We have too many other things to talk about.

Let's keep going. I mean, Popovich also set the world junior record in the 200 freestyle with the fastest textile swim in history. It was the third fastest or fourth fastest performance of all time. Third fastest performer of all time. So clearly a star in the making.

But this concludes Swimming News for roll on episode 700. Let's move over to Death Valley. Death Valley. Back to you Rich. Well, we do have a little bit of an update on the Badwater situation that we talked about last time. There was some controversy over the women's victor, Ashley Paulson. There were some people who were skeptical

that she actually won the race or there might've been some shenanigans. If you wanna hear us discuss that, go back and listen to that. But I thought it would be the responsible thing to kind of update everybody on what's transpired there. The initial post by Marathon Investigation that was really questioning the veracity of our result has done an exhaustive analysis and ended up publishing another post on this that goes into extreme detail, like analyzing her Garmin data and, you know, comparing her performance to past other performers and, you know and looking at GPX files and graphs

and talking to people who were on course, et cetera. And basically concluded, this post goes on and on and on forever. We'll link it up in the show notes, but basically ends up saying that he can't help but conclude that her result is legit. So I just wanted to point that out. There's another guy who on a sub stack is not having it.

I'll link that up as well. Some guy named Kevin Beck wrote a long post about basically saying that he doesn't believe that she did it, but look, the marathon investigator guy, he really spent a lot of time looking at this and towards that end, Chris Kossman, who's the race director of Badwater wrote a long post basically saying she earned this victory

and he explains why. And he also highlights a lot of other outstanding performances that sort of came out of the blue, which is part of the dispute around Ashley. And he includes two of David Goggins performances, like the first time that he did it kind of came out of the blue, which is part of the dispute around Ashley. And he includes two of David Goggins' performances, like the first time that he did it, kind of coming out of nowhere as a bigger guy and actually really distinguishing himself

and then coming back with a huge improvement on the year before and basically says, there is historical precedent for this. So anyway. Well, if Cosman says so, I believe him. Chris Cosman, I mean, he's run that race forever. He's the law on bad water. Yeah, and while we're talking about 130 mile races

on tarmac, we gotta talk about O's. O's Perlman. Back in the news again. Friend of the pod. Back in it. He came on the pod because of Adam. Adam is the contact point there, the connective tissue. O's not only is this unbelievable mentalist, he broke Robbie Ballinger's Central Park record.

We talked about that before. And then must've been two weeks ago, I think. He did this extraordinary challenge where he ran 130 plus miles from Montauk, the very tip of Long Island, like out past the Hamptons, all the way to Manhattan, 130 miles on city streets to Times Square, and he did it in 21 hours. Unbelievable.

Which is crazy. Crazy. Including throwing down like six minute plus pace during the last five or 10K and running a five, I think he ran a 5.56 final mile. Yes. That guy's a freak. He's a freak.

He called me, I think mile 70-ish or something. I talked to him during, and he had just come through a hellish period because it was hot. It was like the hottest day of the year. He also did it, you know, hottest most humid day of the year. I know.

And so he had- And it's just pavement, like oppressive humidity. Yeah, and he made it, you know, he said there were some darker moments. This was harder obviously than the Central Park thing. And there were dark, even, you know, there were darker moments. I mean, it was mostly because of the weather, I think.

And he, you know, he definitely- He dug a hole, but then he crawled out of it. He saw the darkness. Yeah, which is unusual because it all seems like a breeze with him for some reason. Well, because he goes hard too, he goes quick. He goes quick, but he was able to keep going

and killed it once he got into Manhattan. And then I think as in true O's form, got on a plane the next day and I flew to Tampa Bay to like entertain the Tampa Bay bucks and hang out with Tom Brady. Yeah, he's with Tom Brady the day after. I mean, after the Central Park thing, he went directly to Augusta.

The Masters, yeah, yeah, yeah. I spoke to Robbie Ballinger about it briefly. And he loves OZ. He was, he's so impressed with how much faster OZ ran the Central Park thing than he did. And he pointed out aptly that OZ is a guy who, although he has quite a profile as a mentalist is sort of like not given his due

in the ultra running community. Like they're not, really? Well, when you think of the great ultra runners, like he doesn't come to mind, but his performances are unbelievable. And so the hope with this Montauk to Manhattan thing was that that would put him on the map in a new and interesting way.

And Robbie wanted to help do that. So Robbie and Reese Robinson, who used to work for me as a content creator, have created this thing called the Audacious Report, which is a YouTube channel that is making really high-end documentaries or mini documentaries about athletes and races in the ultra running world.

So they chronicled Ozu's Montauk to Manhattan thing. And I'm sure they're editing together something amazing. They shared it. You should follow Audacious Report on Instagram if you're interested in this stuff. Cause like their Instagram stories, like you can follow these things in real time. That's how I followed the OZ run.

Yeah, yeah. And I think they were in Leadville just recently. Yeah, which brings us to Leadville because they went there to chronicle Hella, our boy Hella Sidibe, not only running Leadville for they went there to Chronicle Hela, our boy Hela Sidibe, not only running Leadville for the first time, as far as I know, it's his first, even though he's run across the country,

it was the first black person to do that. He had never really done a race. Any race. Any ultra race. So he'd done 10Ks or marathons? Yeah, I think he's done a lot of that kind of stuff, but I don't think he's entered a formal ultra and really doesn't have much experience on trails, period.

Like he lives in New Jersey and run city streets and relatively flat terrain, but he put Leadville on the calendar. He went out early to spend time with Robbie. He was like living with him, I think. And Robbie lives in a small Colorado town and they went up to Leadville for like a training camp. So he could recon the course and all of that.

And he did good. Our boy did pretty good. He ran Leadville in 2744. Amazing. He was the 146th finisher overall, the 118th male. He was 41st in the 30 to 39 age group. So it's not like, oh, he just went out and won it. But I was very interested to see how he was gonna do.

Cause when you see him running, you know, on his Instagram or whatever, he has this incredibly beautiful, long stride. He looks like a gazelle, like a gazelle, like a track and field athlete. That's what a runner should look like, I think, when I see that. But that's not how races like Leadville go. It's like, what's gonna happen?

Like, yes, he ran across the United States. You're saying you don't wanna lift. He's clearly an unbelievable athlete. You don't necessarily wanna have the high stride as much. Well, there's a lot of walking and climbing and it's a whole different kind of thing, you know? So in my mind, it was like, he's either gonna absolutely destroy and crush it,

or he's gonna not finish. And so I think he seems like he ran a really smart race. And I'm sure a lot of that had to do with Robbie's sage council. And interestingly, he beat Harvey Lewis by like an hour, our boy Harvey, who is, you know, an unbelievably successful elite ultra, you know, distance competitor. But I would say, look, Harvey's does so many races,

you know, like guys like doing a hundred mile races, like almost every weekend or every other weekend, you know, what would have happened if Harvey made Leadville his number one priority and focused on that probably would have been a bit of a different thing. But for context, Hella being in his very first ultra and besting Harvey is like no small thing.

So congrats to both of them, love both you guys. And just also for context, the winner Adrian McDonald did it in 16 hours and five minutes, which is unbelievable. It's gotta be a record, right? Is that a record? I don't think it is. I don't know, I should probably know that,

but I don't think it's a record, but 16 hours. It's a crazy time. You have to do this whole pass climb. I mean, you're going up to 12,900 feet. It's just between 10 and 12,500. And it was like raining at one point it's cold. Unbelievable. And shout out to Claire Gallagher, the women's winner

who completed it in 19 hours and 37 minutes. Also mental. Basically, yeah, like just eight hours faster than Hella. Right. Right? Insane. Yeah, she's a very gifted athlete as well. I mean, Adrian McDonald going 11 hours faster than Hella.

Right, well, some of these, I mean, I wonder where Adrian is based. Claire's based in Boulder. You know, I think she like a lot, I would imagine a lot of the like top ultra people. They live at altitude. They live in the mountains. Yeah, they don't live in a New Jersey suburb.

No. Yeah, anyway, you can find all the results at Athlinx. If you're watching on video, you can see what it looks like here. We'll link that up in the show notes if you wanna check that out. And it'll be interesting to see if Hella- And look forward to the Audacious Report documentary

that is hopefully to come. And I'm interested to see if Hella does more of these. He looked pretty stoked. He looked great at the end. Yeah, I know. Well, he does that. He does his thing. His trademark.

I love it. What do you call that? I don't know, Jason, do you do that at the end of one of your runs? No. Jason doesn't do that. Well, we should shout out Blake who just ran the Bulldog 50K.

Did he? This past weekend. Yeah, man. I missed that. I know, see? Blake. All these runners losing weight, eating plant-based, conquering ultras.

I'm not even- Get on board, bro. I won't even be able to get a Roley nomination next year. I'm just trying to get my back sorted so I can join them. It looked like you were running recently. A little bit, yeah. My back is relatively stable.

I'm not pain-free and I'm just testing it out with some really light zone one kind of walk, jog, hike, kind of things. I started that when I was in London, I would just go out in the morning and spend three hours kind of walking a little bit, then I would jog a little bit, then I'd walk. And I just wanted to see how the back would hold up

and it didn't seem to exacerbate it. It's not like, oh, it's gone. And I have a green light to just go full bore. So I'm being very gentle on myself, but for my mental health, just to get out and elevate my heart rate a little bit has been nice. That's great, man.

Happy to hear that. Back to the mountains, we got UTMB, which starts today. So we're recording this on Monday, August 22nd. It's a whole week of races. It's not just one race. I know John McAvoy, he just texted me some images. He did one of the races, I think maybe the 40K, I'm not sure, but the big one is coming up this weekend.

It's gonna be an interesting showdown. I think that there's a really good chance that some American women can distinguish themselves this year. I think the race to watch on the men's side is going to be Jim Walmsley, who moved to France to train with Francois Den, who I also did a podcast with that's coming up soon.

Jim has had trouble cracking this race. I think this will be his fourth attempt. He's never won it. This year he four went the Western States 100 to really just focus on this race, I think this will be his fourth attempt. He's never won it this year. He forwent the Western States 100 to really just focus on this race. Kind of the way Lance Armstrong was the first to really focus on the Tour de France.

Like he didn't do all, he like opted out of a lot of the other races just so he could, he was like, this is the one that matters. I think it's interesting that Jim is having that approach to UTMB. And this is Ultra Trail. With this gold being the first Mont Blanc. Mont it's interesting that Jim is having that approach to UTMB. And this is ultra trail. With this gold being the first Mont Blanc. Mont Blanc, and so is this considered-

It's the most prestigious kind of celebrated ultra trail race in the world. In the world, it's above like the- Like the spectators come out, it's like an insane media circus. It's like a really big deal. It's the Boston Marathon of- And no American has ever won it.

So that's what everyone's gonna be looking for. But he's gotta go up against Killian and there's some other interesting competitors. So we'll see what happens. Killian's gonna be there? Killian's gonna be there. Is he a past champion? Killian has won it.

Yeah, I don't even know how many times. Won it a bunch, three or four times. Camille Heron is doing it, so that'll be cool. Friend of the pod and stay tuned. We'll report back on that. But from the mountains to the sea we go. From the mountains to the sea. My vertical blue friend.

There was vertical blue for those unfamiliar. The quote unquote, am I quoting myself? The Wimbledon of free diving, I don't know. It now has been said by so many people in so many different publications. I can't even remember. Leah Barrett, the great photographer, I think defined it that way to me way back when.

And I stole it from her and put it in print. You plagiarizing bastard. It's not plagiarizing. It's a, what's it called? It's a- License. Yeah, a license. An ode. An ode.

So this year, the big performances, just to open it up, there are four disciplines that people compete in. There's constant weight, which is with the monofin. Hold on one second. Let me just say, here we are back talking about free diving again. I know, I know.

I just have to call it out. I know. As much as I try to escape this like strange world that no one cares about, here we are again. I specialize in strange worlds that no one cares about. We should get, is there like a governing body to free dive? There is, I'm gonna talk about that.

They should be paying us for all this promotion. After what I have to say, they might not want to. Okay, go ahead. But let's start with the good. Basically just to break it down, there are four disciplines, there's constant weights. Keep it brief. That's with a monofin.

There's free immersion where you pull yourself down a rope and back again, all on one breath. There's the constant no fins. That means they're just doing a breaststroke down, basically a modified breaststroke and back. And then there is the constant no fins. That means they're just doing a breaststroke down, basically a modified breaststroke and back. And then there is constant weight bifins. Just like you see Orlando in this photograph right here. It's the long bifins you see spear fishermen wear.

Really flexible. Yeah, very flexible. Individual foot, not a monofin. And they are tethered to a line. They swim down on one breath, grab a tag and bring it up. And then once they get to the surface, they have to prove that they're with it. And there's a surface protocol involved.

And if they are, they get a white card, they get points, they get credit for if it's a record. There were two men's world records at this event. One was 127 meter free immersion dive from Mateusz Malina from Poland, who I've seen dive once before and a mega performance. He had tried it twice. The first attempt, he did not make it.

The second he turned early, the second attempt he did make it. And then there was 120 meters from Arnaud Girard. He is a 26 year old young stud. I think he's the most exciting young athlete on the men's side that we've seen in quite some time in this sport. So it's pretty great because he did something

that we had never seen with bifins. Bifins weren't even a category when I was kind of cataloging all this for one breath. But at that time, I don't think people even got to a hundred meters in bifins because scissor kicking, especially you can't even do it really that efficiently. Most people who compete even with bifins are doing a dolphin kick.

Dolphin is a way more efficient. This guy kicks scissor kicks back from depth. It's amazing. I put a video. Going down though, does he? NPR has a video. I didn't see the first 20 meters. By the time I saw a video,

he was already free falling in the video I saw. I sent you an NPR clip that they put it on their Instagram of Arnaud. And I spoke with him and he is just really a delightful guy. He grew up spear fishing in France and just fell in love with going deep. And he always used bifins. It was like second nature for him.

And so for the last five years, he's been able to have sponsors and compete and just focus as a professional athlete. And he is going to start looking at the monofin because I mean, if you're doing 120 and bifins, what's your potential with a monofin? Remember the record is 130 meters. So that's Alexi's world record and Alexi wasn't there.

And that brings us to Ada. He was banned from vertical blue. It's called the Wimbledon of free diving. And they took it literally. Ada is the governing body. Ada is the governor body of, there's two competing ones, but for this Ada is the governing body.

And they took that Wimbledon for free diving, literally and banned Russians. Wouldn't let Russians compete. As if Vladimir Putin has any idea what vertical blue or ADA is. And so Alexei, who obviously is not in favor of any of this, was banned. And it's unfortunate

because then you would have had a chance to have records broken back. Speaking to Alexei, he's highly confident he's going to take both records back when he's allowed to. He's hoping to get a pass from ADA to compete in the next competition coming up. He's training right now in Kosh, Turkey.

And he's told me that what he thinks the human limit is on these dives, people aren't even scratching yet. He says he has a lot left in him and is eager to do it. But he also was of good spirits. He's, you know, Arnaud is one of the Molchanov's athletes, loves Arnaud and was really happy for him. And so like his just, the way he talked about it, it was amazing.

So it's unfortunate, I think for Vertical Blue and for Ada that they would ban their best athlete. It just seems, especially when they're trying to sell like pay-per-view to get to see the dive eye and you don't have your best athlete there. Just, it struck me as a kind of the wrong choice. On the women's side, Alenka Artnick is the deepest woman ever on constant weight. And she had hit 125 meters in training, and that would be a new world record. She attempted 123 meters. I think her record's 122. She attempted 123 meters on her first dive and didn't make it.

In fact, I think she blacked out. It was her first blackout in competition. She never had that before. Her second dive, she dialed it back, hit 111 meters comfortably, good enough to win that discipline, but that was the only white card dive she did. She kind of hinted at burnout on her Instagram

and has taken a step back. And it just shows you that like this obsession, compulsion to keep going, to keep going, it can bite back at you, which I've heard of from other athletes. So obviously I'm a huge fan and respect Alenka a lot. So I'm hoping that, you know, everything's good and she's back out there.

Fatima Kurok of Hungary won the overall for women. And that's it. I wanna shout out also to my pal, a great free diver from Japan named Tetsuo Ohara, who is more of our gen. And he I've been, you know, he's been at every competition I've been at. I think every time I've been to vertical blue,

he's been there and he's come and dove with us at doom a couple of times and he hit 96 meters, his personal best. So that's pretty cool. Wow. And so that's that congrats also to Will Trubridge on another great event. You know, I really hope to get back to Long Island one day and see these guys compete.

It's fun to see Orlando Bloom there. Pretty cool. Yeah, so that's, you know, what caught my attention is Orlando Bloom's Instagram post. Yeah. Where he, it's this gorgeous photograph of him. That's him right there with the bifins, is it not? Yeah, and he got on the line.

I think he did, you know, there's opener right there with the bifins, is it not? Yeah, and he got on the line. I think he did, there's opener dives and they have whoever, like they kind of give that out to tribute. So like kind of the first pitch. And so I don't know if he did an opener dive, I think he did. And so I don't know how deep he went, but he got on the line and did a dive.

Yeah, I think he was there. Camila Jabber, it might be Haber, she's from Mexico. She did some national records and she works as stunt doubling in film business. So it seems like he was there to see her. So then maybe they've crossed paths. And so Alexi's world record is 130. 130 meters with constant weight.

And he had, I think it was 126 meters in free immersion. And- I mean, just imagine that. And then you gotta go back, right? So double that. And now imagine basically swimming that distance in a pool without taking a breath. Well, swimming 260 meters. So that-

That isn't even accounting for all of the pressure and all of that kind of stuff. Like it's unbelievable. Dynamic is what you're talking about. And I'd have to look what the world record is in dynamic and that's going back and forth. And it looks like the world record for dynamic is almost 300 meters.

Let me see. Yeah, 300 meters. And that's Mateus as well, Molina. So he has that. So that's 300 meters in a pool, back and forth, Molina. So he has that. So that's 300 meters in a pool, back and forth, back and forth. Unbelievable. One breath. I know.

Yeah, I mean, they're holding their breath for like four minutes, swimming. And the record for, right now talking to Alexi, he thinks like the record, like he thinks the human limit for constant weight is like 150 meters. That's what he thinks, something close to that. And he's brewing up a special event that I won't leak now.

And hopefully it comes to fruition, but it's another big spectacle. So he's, I think he took it personally and he's thinking of different ways of coming back to it. But at the same time he took it lightly. So it's both at the same time. So, you know, I just think anytime, I thought the same thing with Wimbledon,

I think to hold Russian athletes accountable for the decisions of very few people in government, in this case, one person who's obviously seems bent is just silly. It doesn't make any sense to me. That's another thing that we talked about with Malcolm Gladwell, because his whole legacy of speed thing is all about

like the intersection of sport and activism and the role of the athlete at the Olympiad. And the conclusion when you kind of look down through history is that these bands are really ineffective. They might be motivated by good concerns, but they're not actually doing anything like actually allowing the athletes who are victims in all of this to compete

and perhaps providing an opportunity for the athletes to have the ability to be activists should they choose to is a better route towards addressing that concern. Agreed. Banning Medvedev, I think was the world number one at the time from Wimbledon. Like he's not Djokovic, We're banning Djokovic. And you know, it's like, there's a lot of banning going on.

It's like, to me, like Djokovic was banned from Australia for the Australian open, he's a band for here. I don't agree with his take on vaccines. I don't agree with it at all. I think it's a mistake. I think he has shown some behavior that is questionable at times during this thing. But to me, he's the greatest. He's arguably the best ever.

If you're running the tennis competition, but you can't tell me that the guy, it's not like he's the number one ranked person and he's just a new guy. He's been around for a long time. He's made a lot of these people a lot of money. He's great for the sport. And you can't make a special exception

for one of the greatest of all time. See, I personally, I understand rule of law, but I think we can make exceptions for the greatest of us. I think we can. I think we can. You're such an elitist. That's not, is that elitism? Is that elitism?

I'm not saying. The greats can break the rules, Adam. That's what you're saying. I'm saying. See, now we're like tiptoeing into the culture war. I'm not saying the greats can. Try to stay away from into the culture war. I'm not saying the greats can- Try to stay away from this. I'm not saying the greats can break the rules.

I'm saying there should be- Yes, that's exactly what you're saying. No, I'm saying there should be exceptions to certain rules for exceptional human beings. Right, that's inherently by definition an elitist statement. But I'm not one of those people. No, I just believe this thing, but I'm not that.

Okay, here we are. Let's cut that out guys. Look, it's a slippery slope right back into Alex Jones and Mar-a-Lago, here we are again, no matter what we try to do. You can say that anything you want about me going to Mar-a-Lago and hanging out with Alex Jones, but like you wouldn't take that invitation.

Well, just out of pure fascination, you would have to, right? Folks, I did not go to Mar-a-Lago to brunch without, I don't even like brunch, I hate brunch. Okay, one last person to FET. Yeah, one last person. We gotta take an ad break here in a second. Antonio Arguelles, the Stanford great.

Unbelievable. Your fellow Stanford alum. This guy just completed what is called the 40 bridges for those not in the know who aren't following the day by day ins and outs of marathon swimming. The 40 bridges is the double Manhattan swans, basically swimming all the way around Manhattan twice. It's 91.8 kilometers, in other words, 42 miles.

He just did it. And not only did he do it, he's not the first to do it. Like the 40 bridges is a thing, like many people have done it, but he did it in less than 20 hours and he's the oldest person to have ever done it. How old is he? He's in it. 63.

Yeah, 63. Wow. And he did, he's the oldest person to have ever done it. How old is he? He's in a- 63. Yeah, 63. Wow. And he did, he's the oldest to do the Ocean Seven, which are the seven great crossings. He's the oldest to do that. And he did that at 58 years old. I wrote about him for the New York Times there. And then later he came and approached me.

I helped him write his book, Forever Swim, which was originally published in Spanish and now is available in English as well. And this last few years, he's been focused on doing the double triple crown. So he did double Catalina, oldest to do that, tried to do double English last year and was like three to five miles, maybe at the most from doing it.

And it just, he got caught in one of those tides and he couldn't go and it just got cold and he got hypothermic and they pulled him. And he was literally a couple of miles or something. I forget what it was, but he saw, I mean, he was there near Dover. And so that's tough, but did he let that push him back? No, he does this.

He's already got a boat ready for double English again in 2024. Yeah, good for him. So he's got to figure out what he's doing. It's crazy, when you see this guy, he's like, he's a big burly, barrel chested guy. Like these open water, barrel bellied. Yeah, open water guys are always very robust.

He calls it his bioprene. You gotta have that. You gotta put on, you gotta get like, you gotta get the whale blubber going if you're gonna go and do these things for flotation and for maintaining core body temp. Yeah, he trains in Las Aztecas, Las Aztecas, Aztecas, a river outside Mexico city where he trains.

He also trains in the pool, lives in Mexico city and really great, fun, amazing intellectual type guy. And anyway, always fun, amazing intellectual type guy. And anyway, always fun, always has mariachis at the end. He found some mariachis to party with at the end. So that's fun. It's on his Instagram. It's such a cool accomplishment.

And yet, here we are talking about it. There's no press on this. I Googled it. There's not one. I mean, there's an article, like Steve Moutatonis did a piece saying that he was going to do it. And it was an article about the various competitors who were gonna tackle the 40 bridges,

but not one article was written about the results or what he had accomplished. I couldn't pitch him because I couldn't bring it to the New York Times because we covered him when he did Ocean 7. So it's unclear if they would have done it again anyway. And also because I collaborated with him on his book, it's kind of, I can't really now pitch stories on him

because I know him too well. We're friends. So much for me ever being in the New York Times ever again. I mean, it's not gonna be for me pal, all right. All right, let's take a break. Let's make that clear. Let's take a break and we'll be back with whatever we're back with.

All right, are we back rolling? Yep. I feel like our energy is good. We have a good flow. Is it just because we haven't done it in a while? I'm just happy to see you. I have that effect on a lot of people. I call it rapport and everywhere I go, I try to cultivate rapport.

Did you come up with that word? Sometimes rapport is not reciprocated initially, but give me time. I will build rapport whether you like it or not. All right, well, let's continue to cultivate that my friend. That's good. I love sweet rapport. Once again, we are resisting the impulse

to partake in the culture wars. We are not gonna talk about Donald Trump. We are not gonna talk about Alex Jones. Who we are gonna talk about is one Rainn Wilson, Dwight Schrute from The Office. Why are we talking about this Adam? Because you put a video up, a highlight reel, you're doing these cool clips now.

You're doing these highlight clips on your Instagram, which I love by the way. Do you have a TikTok? Are they going on a TikTok thing too? They're going on TikTok too. Although I don't have anything to do with TikTok. Okay. AJ manages that. But tell people how this all started

because like, I think people would be interested because you've just kind of launched these and obviously people are loving them. But so tell us how that started. So when I had COVID for the second time and I was lying in bed all day, bored out of my mind, I just thought like my relationship to Instagram has always been relatively cavalier.

Like, yeah, I throw up pictures from the latest podcast. I always make announcements about who's on the show. But beyond that, like I don't treat it like a business. It's sort of like I post when I feel like it. And I just don't wanna be beholden to it or feel like it's an onerous thing. But while I was lying in bed, I was like, and so I probably was posting,

I post once a week or twice a week or something like that, but I'm lying in bed and we have all this content because for every episode we generate all these videos and we have all these assets. And I ended up sharing like a tiny fraction of what we actually have historically going back over like hundreds of episodes. And I thought, well, I'm just here. of what we actually have historically going back over like, you know, hundreds of episodes.

And I thought, well, I'm just here. I wonder what would happen if I just bled the feed and just like posted three times a day. Like, why not? Let's just see what happens. So I started doing that particularly video. Cause I know that Instagram is favoring that right now. And there's a lot of shifts in, you know, their algorithm

and what they're serving up to people. And people are disgruntled about that. And you can be angry and wish that Instagram was different than it is, or you can just be like, well, this is what's happening right now. Let's see what happens if I just get on board with that and start sharing what they're favoring. And so I did that.

And these videos ended up getting a lot of views. And we added like a hundred thousand new followers to the Instagram account in like two weeks. Like the growth was ridiculous. And the thing about it is if the algorithm doesn't like the video, then no one sees it anyway. So it's not like, why is Rich posting so many videos? Right.

So from that experience, we sort of came back and said, well, let's really prioritize this. How can we elevate the aesthetic of the reels that we're showing? So we're distinguishing ourselves and really presenting the wisdom of the podcast guests in the most elegant way possible. And the team specifically Dan,

came up with this new design, which I'd love and it's beautiful and people seem to enjoy. And some of these videos have gone on to do millions of views. But the one video that is the real viral outlier is this clip from the podcast that I did with Rainn Wilson and Reza Aslan where Rainn goes on a bit of a jaunt

about how to spend your time as a 20 something, basically saying that young people, college age people are overly concerned with their future and super stressed out and are having higher rates of depression, et cetera, because of the pressures incident to trying to figure out what to do with your life. And his message was basically like, don't sweat it.

Like your twenties are for experimentation. They're for going out in the world, gathering experiences and not worrying about your career trajectory and just enjoying your life while you don't have a lot of ties or responsibilities or obligations. And so maybe we should just play the video cause it's just a quick clip. 20s are a waste of time.

Like don't even worry about it. Don't try and get it figured out. Like the point of your 20s is to try 12 different things and fail at nine of them. But truthfully in society right now, you talk to so many college kids and they're so depressed at 2021 cause they haven't gotten the perfect internship over the summer and they're not pre-enrolled in the perfect grad program and they don't have their job aligned.

Now, I know it's hard to make a living out there. It's hard to have a career and make a living. It's much harder than in the 80s and 90s when we were getting our educations. But nonetheless, if you view the 20s as a workshop stage, then it gives you some, you can relax a little bit. So anyway, that video has, as of the moment of this recording, accumulated 20.7 million views.

So it's been viewed more than any other piece of content I've ever shared on the internet. And the reason that I'm bringing it up isn't just because it was viral, it's because the comment section here was so evenly split. On the one hand, you had people saying, yes, absolutely, I agree. This is what I did during my 20s

and I had such an enriching experience and it informed everything that I do today. And I wouldn't trade it for anything. Matched by an equally loud number of people saying, this is the worst advice ever. Like what a privileged, white old man. This is like, you don't understand my lot in life. You have no idea how hard it is right now, et cetera.

And I just thought that that was super interesting to see that divide. And I don't have the demographics on the divide, but I would suspect that the people who are disputing this are either young people who are having a really hard time right now, or are people who have just struggled in sort of dire circumstances

to like make their way in the world. Yeah. And what's your take on it? Well, as a cisgender privileged white male, I mean, I share Rain's perspective. I did not take that advice as a young person. I was one of those people who was very stressed out and career oriented.

And now looking back, I wish that I had spent my time in my twenties to really figure out who I wanted to be. And the only way that you can do that is by trying lots of things and failing at them and having many, many, many experiences and not worrying so much about the ladder of your career trajectory. And this is

something that's been echoed by lots of wise people that I've had on the podcast, perhaps most notably by like Steven Pressfield, who had a million jobs, like was in the military and mopped floors. And I don't even know, you know, like just a whole bunch of jobs that put him, you know, in communities of people that he wouldn't have otherwise met, put him in communities of people that he wouldn't have otherwise met, put him in circumstances and environments that were very different from what he was used to. And I think when you do that, you become a more kind of robust individual.

You understand different walks of life, different perspectives. You start to figure out what you enjoy doing and what you don't enjoy doing. It's hard to intellectualize that. Like you have to go into the world and do things to find out like, oh, that's not what I thought it was. It's not for me.

Or wow, this thing I never thought of before, like has led me into this other direction, which is fantastic. And I think to put a button on that thought, you know, the person who comes to mind is David Epstein, who wrote this wonderful book, "'Range' that I talk about constantly on the podcast." And his whole thesis is that when you canvas

exceptional performers across all facets of expertise from science to art and sports and business, et cetera, the people who are truly exceptional are generally people who have done the very thing that Rain is talking about, done many, many, many things over the course of their careers that end up creating this very unique set of skills that unbeknownst to them makes them perfectly suited to be doing the thing

that they excel at later in life. And I think there's something really cool about that and interesting. Now, when you're 20 years old and you're going out into the world and you're trying to make a living and stand on your own two feet, it's hard to hear that, right?

Cause it is harder now than it used to be. And it's not 1988 when I got out of college, 1989. It's a very different world. It's much more competitive. And there is this increase in wealth inequality, this exacerbating gap between the haves and the have-nots. And there's a lot more have-nots than there are haves. And the haves are getting fewer and fewer

and the middle class has completely disappeared. So it does, I do understand why it would land as quite indulgent to say, go fuck off for 10 years and travel the world. But I do think if you can find a way to do that and not worry, like live as leanly as possible, like don't pay rent somewhere, like try to find a way to make ends meet

and live a bit of a pauper's lifestyle so that you can have experiences. That is a gambit that I support. Yeah, I mean, I used to know people that like- I mean, this is your life too, but like we're older white guys. So to understand the difference of what it is now. I think part of the blowback is he's like,

treat your twenties as a workshop stage. He meant it, but you know, that shows a perspective of looking back. But when you're in your twenties, the pressures feel so real that it's hard to look at your life as a workshop stage. No one really looks at their life that way. Like the clock's ticking, I'm getting behind.

Except in retrospect, but he's not wrong. I agree with what he's saying, but in a way, all of life is a workshop stage. You know, like the way I look at it is all of life is a workshop stage. It's about getting to know yourself and be yourself and be your best self. To me, that's what it's about.

Right, I think his, sorry to step on your words, but when he said your twenties are a waste of time, that's like the first thing he says in the clip. And I think that's being misconstrued. Like he's not really saying they're a waste of time. He's just saying, don't sweat it. Like, don't worry about it. There's like what you do now isn't mission critical

to what you're gonna be doing in your thirties. And so the only thing I push back on is it is, but it's not linear. It's not in a way that you think. It's non-linear. Not in a way that you can predict. You can't quantify it. And you do have to be like,

there's control issues that come into play too. Like you kind of have to be a little faith-based. Like I know I'm like mopping a floor, you know, in some, you know, diner in Ecuador right now, but you know, this will actually be informative later in life in a way that I don't know. Or just, it's a fucking crazy experience. Right.

Like how am I, this guy from Santa Monica, mopping a floor in Ecuador? This is fucking wild. Like what is going on right now? It's almost like we talk about wokeness. What about awakeness? You know, like what about being awake to the experiences you're having

and not necessarily looking at them as this something that's going to accumulate and then benefit me as if that's what we're always looking for. How is this going to benefit me? What if it's benefiting you in just the experience of it? Now that's not to say there aren't dark experiences that can help you, but are not that fun to celebrate

while they're happening, because there are. And I've had my share and there's a lot more that I haven't had. But I do think that this idea, what he's saying is correct. That what he's saying is there is no such thing. He says 20s are a waste of time, but I think what he's hinting at is there's no such thing as wasted time. So if you go out and have a good time

and experiment and do things you didn't think you would get into or that don't necessarily add up in a linear way, it's to your benefit later when it all starts to crystallize. And so I agree with him. I think the semantics is where people got missed. And in terms of like the wealth inequality

and how that plays into it, I find that really interesting because we were talking about this and just, we kind of came in a loop back to an article I shared with you on Defector, which Defector is the place that a lot of the people from Deadspin migrated to. Yeah, I had never been to the defector website before.

I believe that Drew Magary and like all these writers after Deadspin went down in the wake of the whole Gawker thing, right? They created their own kind of a reporter owned thing called the defector. Kelsey McKinney, one of the founders, co-founders of the defector wrote this great piece. The money is in all the wrong places.

And it's about wealth and equality, but through the lens of Sydney Sweeney, the actress from Euphoria and White Lotus, her career, basically. She's using her career as this lens to then explore wealth and equality. And it's about Sydney's interview. I think it was in Variety or Hollywood Reporter, I forget.

Where she would- Maybe Vanity Fair. Was it? Okay, Vanity Fair. And it was about she kind of like- Hollywood Reporter, sorry, go ahead. And it was an interview and it kind of compared Sidney to some of her peers who come from kind of legacy household Sidney grew up. She was not wealthy from Spokane, Washington

when they moved to, they all lived in a motel in LA while she was trying to make it in Hollywood. And she does not come from money. And it's about how she's used her Instagram. If you go on her Instagram, you see she's making deals and she's always working. And part of that reason is that this era of stars is not gilded as much as this era is before them

because of the way things are. And what this era is before them because of the way things are. And what Kelsey's getting at is because of the way the money has filtered up top. And even the stars aren't making what they used to. And so if that's true, what about everybody else? What about writers? And she goes on to talk about, Ernest Hemingway used to make a dollar a word in the 30s.

Sometimes I make less than that today. Like I'm obviously- That would be to make a dollar a word in the 30s. Sometimes I make less than that today. Like I'm obviously- That would be equivalent to $21 a word in today's economy. Right, I think I've made- And nobody makes that. Nobody makes that. She's saying she's never known anyone make more than $3 a word, I think she said.

I've made, I think I've made three bucks a word once. Two bucks a word was like the top that I always wanted to get. But often now with all these different places to sell your writing, I still only go to kind of a tried and true place I've always gone to, because I like those outlets,

but also because I'm just used to going to editors I know. Those prices have come down, but there's more opportunities. So a lot of people now, it's easier in a way to get published than it ever was, but you're getting paid a lot less, instead of a buck 50 or a buck, you're getting 50 cents or less.

And so she talks about that and she has this great line. The shadow of our destiny is racing towards us. A promise that meritocracy was a lie and that we all live in and with the stagnant reality of that. There's a dread building, a bleakness that is already casting a shadow on the future. Maybe you feel it. I think meritocracy was always a lie,

but it's an interesting question about like where this is all leading. So that's the article anyway. Yeah, I mean, what's sort of interesting and compelling about this is that it's a diatribe on wealth inequality through like the parlance of the internet because it's a hot take, right? Like Sweeney is somebody who got piled on

because in this Hollywood reporter piece, she was saying like, look, I'd like to have a baby and I can't take off from work while she lives in a $3 million mansion. So she's not exactly a sympathetic candidate for a discussion around wealth inequality. And curiously, McKinney takes this perspective that like her point is valid,

which is that the artists are not being adequately compensated for the art. And it's not that art isn't making as much money as it always had. If anything, it's generating more wealth, but that wealth is being increasingly more and more accumulated by the people who sit behind large desks and have no connection to the actual creation of the art. It's the executives, right? And it used to be, it's always been that way, right? But it used to be, and they use the example

of Jennifer Aniston, like you're on a hit show and it's syndicated and then you have passive income for life and you create generational wealth. And now in the streaming era, it doesn't work that way anymore. And although Sweeney, who's one of the top performers in her age bracket and certainly a star on the rise who works all the time

and is being well compensated for that, feels like she has to be on her hustle game all the time and has to leverage her Instagram for ads in a way that these other people don't and is criticized for that. But she comes from humble beginnings and sort of feels like this is what I have to do in order to be who I wanna be in the world, right?

And the point being made by McKinney is regardless of if you're wealthy or not or whatever your lifestyle is, like everybody deserves to be able to take time off to have a baby. And in this modern age of increased wealth disparity, when the CEOs and the top brass are just making outlandish amounts of money and the top brass are just making, you know, outlandish amounts of money

and the people who are actually generating the actual things that are creating that wealth are being less and less respected for that. Like that's problematic in terms of how our society can cohere long-term. And, you know, it's another example would be like looking at LeBron, like he makes an unbelievable amount of money.

But when you look at how much money the NBA generates, like there's certainly a very good argument that you could make that he should be paying 10 times what he's getting paid. Right, and when those guys take commercial deals, no one really criticizing it. And you know, when you hear George Clooney or Matt Damon on a ad, no one's criticizing them.

Right, like when Matt Damon does the crypto. Maybe they are. For crypto.com. Actually he did get crypto. He got dragged a little bit for that, like when Matt Damon does the crypto. Maybe they are. For crypto.com. Actually he did get crypto. He got dragged a little bit for that, especially when crypto plummeted. He did, he did. But like, yeah, you see a basketball player

doing a Mountain Dew ad or a Sprite ad, or it's like, yeah, that's what you do, right? Right, it's part of the business. But somehow that doesn't apply to people's Instagrams in the same way. I also think it's like how people have like acclimated to that personality. Like there's like the Kardashians use their Instagram

to sell stuff all the time, right? Right. I don't do that. And occasionally I have branded deals with podcast sponsors that require a social post here and there. And when I do that, like it doesn't go over as well. Right. Why is that?

Well, I mean, I think, well, first of all, just to clarify a couple of things, because I feel like I kind of made a mess of introducing this article, but listen, nobody cries for Hollywood creators, especially people who are Emmy nominated actors who seem to have it going on. No one cries for writers, nor should they, by the way. Like we make this choice to go into the business. I don't feel like I'm entitled to anything. But it shouldn't be like you're welcoming martyrdom. No, no, no. Look at like Ernest Hemingway who lived in beautiful places all over the world to be the writer that he was.

He was the most popular novelist at the time in the thirties when he was getting that money. But, um, and he was selling magazines, you know, I'm not defending how little we make now because that's ridiculous. Like it is not equitable. But what I guess what I'm trying to say is it was never easy. You know, I had this conversation with Elizabeth Gilbert back way back in the day when I was struggling and I'm like, God, like it used to be so much easier.

Like you think about that it was so much easier. You got a feature, you could write five features for a magazine a year and make a living and pay a mortgage. Like spend three or four months on a vanity fair piece. Right, that's what I'd always thought. And then Liz said, it was always hard. It was never fucking easy. Like no one asked us to do this.

So like, I'm not down with the, you know, you see it all the time on Twitter, writers complaining about their editors or complaining about how I'm being treated. However, the great Tom Stoddard photographer I worked with once and who I was a dear friend. Not to be confused with Tom Stoppard. No, he had this desk fuckwit theory. And it was all about like the people in the office

don't know what we go through. And then they, you know, make edits or criticize. And he called them the desk fuckwits. These are really the desk fuckwits, not the people that are editing, but the people who are at the very, very top, those are the real desk fuckwits, not the people that are editing, but the people who are at the very, very top, those are the real desk fuckwits. And they are making too much money

and the rich aren't being taxed enough. And because of that, we don't have six months parenting leave in this country while there are certain countries have it. You know, like I think in Austria, both parents can take six months at least off. And so we don't have that. And it's because of the way our society functions.

So it's a lens to look at that. And it does affect journalism because then you get, it's basically a star factory now. And so now you have star journalists that go out, leave their publications and then are now competing with their publications and their own business, right? You had a couple of examples.

And what do they end up doing? Leaning into these culture war topics because they can make money. Because the incentive structure so heavily weights and favors that type of discourse and people are wildly rewarded for engaging in that, which makes, you know, exempting yourself from becoming a profiteer

in the culture war all the much harder, right? Because the temptation lives there. And it's so interesting to look like just in the journalism context, you know, setting aside, okay, here we have this article about Sweeney and she uses her Instagram, you know, for advertising. And, you know, what does that say more broadly about people who are kind of leveraging the internet

to make a living? Like if you're gonna step outside the enclave of the studio movie-making business or the newsrooms of print journalism to be an online personality, whether it's Glenn Greenwald or Matt Taibbi or some of these other very prominent people who have left the protective cone of their publications

to create sub stacks, then it becomes a situation in which you have to garner subscribers. How do you do that? You have to attract attention to yourself. Well, how do you attract attention to yourself? Is it by writing long form nuanced articles about how complex everything is?

No, it's about having a hot take that will be a flashpoint in the public discourse that will draw eyeballs to you and activate people into subscribing. And so whether or not these are people acting in good faith or not, and you can have a debate about that, the incentive structures are so powerful to drive people to create that type of content,

that it creates a different form of, quote unquote journalism altogether. And that's the kind of information landscape that we find ourselves in now. And some people are well-suited to, you know, participating in that ecosystem and adhering to their value set and staying true to their journalistic principles

and others aren't. And for those that aren't, I'm almost sympathetic towards them because the economics of this are driving behavior in such a powerful way that it almost becomes impossible to resist. And this is something that I think a lot about as a podcaster with a platform,

like who are the people that I wanna have on the show? Like I know if I get, you know, if I invite Jordan Peterson on the show, that would probably get a lot of views and a lot of listens, but it's not somebody I'm interested in talking to. So it's like a constant reminder of like, okay, why am I doing this?

Who are the people that I value and that I wanna celebrate? Who are the people that I think I can have the most interesting, compelling conversations that are most helpful to the audience? And really trying to make sure that I'm staying true to that directive in the midst of economic temptations that exist out there that I think are pulling content creators

in all kinds of directions that are leading a lot of people, good people astray. These are so interesting points. And when you're talking about it and thinking of it as the economics, as the big magnet that's pulling everything into these different directions or the many magnets that are kind of pulling it all apart.

I think of that as recline article that we also read. The medium really is the message kind of goes into Marshall McLuhan. And it talks about, it goes back into these thinkers and philosophers who were looking at television and the way television impacted culture. And then he takes that and goes into the internet.

And obviously what goes on mentioned in this article is the phone. But the idea is the medium itself is actually the magnet. The medium is what's driving us to this. It's what's driving Sydney Sweeney to feel like she has to make that extra money in whatever way she can. It's what's driving the writer to like,

to write about it and comment on it. It's driving the wealth inequality. It's driving all of it. The medium itself is doing that. The medium is what's taken, you know, a Glenn Greenwald or a Matt Taibbi and push them into reporting in the ways that they're reporting now.

It's not a criticism of either. I never really was a fan of the way Glenn Greenwald conducted himself and wrote his stuff. I never liked his stuff really. Matt Taibbi, love his stuff, always have. But they both have followed this kind of pattern of going from the left, now kind of going to the other side and only questioning the left

and they keep hitting that drum and beating that drum. Why? I don't know. I don't know what's happening in their business world, but you're making the question. Maybe it's because of this incentive. And it is probably, but maybe it's also the incentive

comes from the medium itself. Well, there's the incentive and then there is the response to the content and the kind of external audience validation that plays into the, not just partisanship, but the true acrimony, right? And when you appeal to a certain group and then you're then championed by that group,

it's then sort of de facto that you're going to feel like you wanna continue to please that group, it's then sort of defacto that you're going to feel like you wanna continue to please that group, right? Which is antithetical to journalistic ethics. And it is a weird kind of undefined space in which it's unclear whether this is journalism, is this opinion piece, does it matter? Should it matter? Like, what is this opinion piece? Does it matter? Should it matter?

Like, what is this? It totally matters. Like we have way too much opinion in the news. Why do we do that? Is it because we're like, everyone wants someone talking to them at the camera, everyone wants a certain tone, is it? And could we ever find ourselves moving back

towards an objective news landscape? Like, I don't think so. No, I mean, this, you don't put genies back in the bottle, right? So the only way is for you then to curate your own life. And like, I'm only gonna read- And that's problematic in its own regard. It is, I mean, it's always been there, right? Do I wanna tune in to this outer world and the strife that's going on, or do I not want to?

And you gotta find, strike that balance. But I think the medium being the message, if you look at it that way, the problem isn't really Matt Taibbi, Glenn streaming, the desk fuck wits, whatever. The problem is that we are being driven by this technology in ways that are not necessarily good for the micro, the self or society, the whole.

And so, it's used that way, but it's viewed that way. This has all been an advancement. This is great. This is great. It's not true. Some stuff is not great. And there's a good point in the Ezra piece about, is it Jonathan Haidt?

He wrote about how there's no fix for a platform that allows teenage girls who are going through puberty to post photos of themselves. Basically like, you know, looking for approval essentially. And it's- Haidt has been really great on this subject matter. It's subject matter that I think is incredibly important. And I know it's come up many times on this podcast, but I'm becoming more and more convinced

that it is a great existential threat to humanity in so many ways. And I think Jonathan Haidt's work on this is really important. Of course, Tristan Harris, who I'm hoping to get on the podcast soon, Johann Hari's recent book about his struggle with the phone and this new book that I'm hoping to get on the podcast soon. Johan Hari's recent book about his struggle with the phone and this new book that I'm about to read called

"'The Chaos in the Machine' by Max Fischer, who's a New York Times reporter and Pulitzer Prize finalist on this very subject matter, "'The Inside Story of How Social Media Rewired Our Minds "'and Our World.'" And he's coming on next week. So I got to get through this book in the next week, but I'm glad that smart people are thinking about this,

but I feel strongly that we should all be really thinking about this and considering it profoundly because it is profound. Yeah. And like, we don't all have to take every deal. You know, we don't have to make the most, like that's the thing also. I'm just gonna keep throwing reels up on Instagram. Yeah, because that's what the market wants.

But there's a point in here. I'm a hypocrite. That's the modern world, we're all hypocrites, but in just different small ways. We're coming at you in ones and zeros on the internet. I've made a living doing this. So it's complicated, man. Me too, I was the biggest critic of Amazon

until I wrote the David book of Amazon until, you know, I wrote the David book and that's the only place we can really sell it. And, and you know, it's in bookstores too. Amazon has basically played a huge part in you being able to make a living. That's the reason I was able to give up half my shifts at Ben and Jerry's. The, the, he said one thing about how like the medium

impacts our attention. Obviously we know that, right? It's an attention economy. We're all like either donating our attention or whoring for attention, excuse my language, but it does affect how you function. And I never read several books at once, except in college. And now I've got like five books going, you know, at all times, like some of it's work related research,

some of it's fiction that I wanna read. Some of it's like nonfiction I know I should know. Some of it's flea. You know what I mean? Acid for the children. I actually, yes, I actually really like it. That's what's funny is actually liberating. I don't see you juggling five books as problematic though.

No, but I never did before. This is not the core of the issue. No, but I think it shows. Yeah, but your life's different than it was before. Am I making this about me again? No, I mean, are you trying to make the argument that you're lapsing into some kind of attention deficit driven by internet culture?

Yes. Yeah, I don't really see that. No. I don't see the connective tissue between those two things. I think if you were saying, I'm struggling to sit down and read for more than 10 minutes at a time without getting antsy, that would be more in line.

Okay, retracted. Yeah. But the fact that you're reading, you're like, yeah, it's terrible, I'm reading five books right now. Like most people have trouble getting through one book because they're so distracted. Right. So you do you, bro.

Sorry guys, that was like one of those, one of those, like you're patting yourself on the back by criticizing yourself. Yeah, a humble brag. It's so terrible, I'm reading five books at once right now. I've read so well this week. And holding down four shifts at the Ben and Jerry's. And raising it. And writing books.

And raising a Spanglish speaking child. Right, adios. Adios, Adam, to that discussion. Sometimes adios is genteel. It's like, adios, I'm needed elsewhere. Sometimes it's, adios, I'll see you next time. Sometimes it's adios. Yeah, Clint Eastwood style.

Yeah, like a snarl. All right, what are we doing? We gotta get to listener questions. One thing I will point out though, there was a great long read, very long read in the New York Times. I mean, I'm talking like, I think it would take an hour and a half

to read this whole article. It would take most, most people wouldn't finish it quite frankly, but I love it. It's called Willie Nelson's Long Encore. It's a beautiful article with amazing photographs about, you know, this legend, Willie Nelson, who's now approaching 90 and is still touring like crazy,

is still very much, you very much in his creative juices. He put out nine albums in the past five years. And I just think on the heels of the Mike Fremont podcast coming out and on the subject of like rethinking aging and embracing longevity and what we're truly capable of, the fact that this beautiful artist is still out on the road and like putting music out

like there's no tomorrow is something cool to be celebrated. I mean, he's truly a national treasure. I didn't realize that he was that old. He's 89 now. Yeah. Yeah. And he's got emphysema and still singing and playing shows. That's crazy. Shout out to Steve Tip, my boy Steve Tip

for recommending this read. And yeah, no dimming of his creative light. No, that makes me feel a little better. Which is very inspiring. That makes me glad I took Rain's advice and wasted my 20s, 30s and 40s because it means I still have a lot to go. Yeah, I mean, what do you think,

like if Willie Nelson sat down and looked at that Rainn Wilson clip, what do you think Willie Nelson would say? He'd be like, I'm still doing that. No, yeah, that's exactly what he would say. No, I mean, he's been, you know, in that article, Willie Nelson didn't become a hit till he was 40 and didn't do his most critically

acclaimed work till he was 45. So like, you know, he would say he agrees 100%. Sure. Yeah. So there you go, critics. Always, but the point I'm trying to make is that he says it's harder now, I'm not so sure, it's always been hard. It's always been hard. But this time, Adam, you don't understand.

And look, it is harder. I'm very sympathetic to young people. And as somebody who I have two step-sons that are 28 and 27, like I have a pretty good sense of what it's like out there through their shared experiences. And it is harder, but that I don't think is worthy enough to, you know,

excuse the value of trying to figure out a way to have adventures and experiences when you're young, because that is the time to do it. Yep, 100%. Enough said. All right, let's go to listener questions. Listener questions. Adam from Fort Collins.

From Adam to Adam. Yeah, if your name's Adam, I'm gonna put you right to the top. And we should say like, we need more questions. Yes, we need more questions guys. We're skimming the, as they say, the bottom. We need to refill the receptacle. So leave us a message at 424.

I don't think we've called out the number enough. That's part of the problem. 424-235-4626. That's 424-235-4626. Call now. Or not now because I'm about to play it and I'm on the program and then it'll come in and it'll, not now.

Operators are standing by. In five minutes. Hey, Rich and Adam. This is Adam in Fort Collins, Colorado. And I just wanted to know what your guys' thoughts were when it comes to big life goals. I'm wanting to do the Never Summer 60K next year. By far and away, the biggest thing I have done. by far and away, the biggest thing I have done. And my wife thinks that I need to really step away from that goal for this 2023 projection and do some smaller things when I kind of

have an accountability mirror and every year I put something bigger on it. And although it scares me, I hear my wife's worries about safety and just being realistic with time. And how do you balance concerns of your loved ones with family and safety? And on the other side, your dreams and your goals that are big and sometimes dangerous. And where does your intuition and kind of instinct fall into all of that? Thanks so much. I cannot wait for every Monday when I see that little blue dot on my Spotify for another podcast.

And, yeah, I just have had my life completely changed by the years of wonderful information and eating a vegan diet for the past year. It's been incredible. Thanks so much, you guys. Have a great day. Thank you, Adam. Great question.

Basically, this is a question about the tension between setting big goals and meeting family expectations or having to deal with perhaps not as much support as you were looking for in your home and it's tricky, right? I think the way that I would answer this is that first of all, like goals are super important. Everybody should have goals.

They serve as these powerful, potent lighthouses to kind of really focus and direct your actions. And I think big goals serve a further purpose, which is this beautiful way to kind of spark a deeper level of engagement in your daily life experience to get out of bed, like energized and excited about, you know, tackling something audacious or something that scares you a little bit.

Like it really enervates you. Enervates or energizes? Isn't innervate, I'm using innervate correctly. I think innervate means you drained of energy. You're right, I've done that before. I need to really figure that out. Yeah, energized. It's the medium's fault.

Right, thank you for correcting me. Sorry. What I'm trying to say is that big goals can help you feel like more alive, right? Yeah. But I think, you know, and Adam already realizes this, that these big goals have to be negotiated with those with whom we share responsibilities.

Otherwise they can quickly devolve into selfish pursuits that end up undermining the other important aspects of your life, including, you know, our relationship with our loved ones and our ability to live up to our responsibilities and our professional obligations and expectations. And because by definition, our time and our energy is limited, it's not unlimited.

All of this becomes a tricky balance. Like how do you strike the appropriate balance between those two things? And I think it begins by going beyond this discussion around goals, temporal goals, and instead getting really clear on values. And this is something that came up in the podcast with James Clear, like you should read his book,

Atomic Habits, if you haven't read that, because it talks all about this. So basically what I'm saying is starting with your values, identifying which values you cherish most. And there's no right or wrong answers here. Like maybe it's your marriage, maybe it's parenting, career, finances, health, fitness, adventure. You know, it's just getting clear

on the priority list of these things and then figuring out like, how are these values being most nourished daily? And then getting granular to ask yourself if a 60K race fits into that value set or value structure or whether it comes at the peril of these other values, right? Like, does it exceedingly threaten your marriage or your relationship? And then asking, well, if it does, is it worth it?

Or is there a way to pursue this goal, nourish these values and keep both of them intact? So in other words, it's about asking yourself whether the goal fulfills the value. Why is this race important to you? What are you seeking to learn and experience? And getting clear on like, oh, it just seems like a cool thing or it scares me.

Like, okay, well, let's go beneath the surface of that. Like, why do you have to do a race to do that? Could you do something else? Or what specifically is it about this race that makes it so important that you would desire to pursue it even if your wife has reservations about you doing it? So I think that's important. Would you agree with that?

And then with that clarity, it becomes about communication. Like, okay, your wife is scared. Well, what is she scared about? Like, what are those fears? Is she legitimately scared that you're gonna injure yourself? Or is that fear have more to do

with you not being around as much? Or when you are around being too tired to basically be present for her? Like are her fears legitimate? Are her concerns legitimate? Or is there something that you can talk through with her that would make her less fearful and more welcoming of you pursuing this goal.

Because obviously if you're in a healthy relationship, you want each other to be pursuing goals and you wanna be, you know, mutual support systems for each other. So in this case, she doesn't seem to be on board with it. And you can be disgruntled and angry and resentful, or you can try to understand that and figure out a way to compromise

so that you're both comfortable because you cohabitate together and you've gotta be on the same page if you want your relationship to continue in a healthy way. And then with that understanding, like holding yourself accountable to that, like if you can come to some compromise where she says, "'Okay, you could do it, but I need to make sure

"'that you're still available for X, Y, and Z, or that we're gonna do this, or that you're gonna show up for me in these other ways. And then making sure that not only do you do that, but you do it with a smile on your face, and perhaps you even go the extra mile to make sure that she's feeling heard and honored in that, like, and at ease with you pursuing this goal.

And I think the final thing I would say is that, you know, it's hard to know just based on your question, in that like, and at ease with you pursuing this goal. And I think the final thing I would say is that, you know, it's hard to know just based on your question, but it seems like, or it feels like you have different risk calculuses, right? Like she seems to be a little bit more risk averse than you. You wanna pursue this thing that to me, like training for a 60K race doesn't sound that risky. I mean, maybe it's super technical

and you can fall off a cliff. I don't know. It's a minimum max elevation 8,500 to 11,900. Average elevation 10. It seems like in the Leadville category, but there's 100K and 60K. So it's not as long. Right.

So maybe some risk. I don't know what his background is and all of that kind of thing. You wanna take a risk. She's more risk averse. There's no right background is and all of that kind of thing. You wanna take a risk, she's more risk averse, there's no right or wrong in that, it's totally okay. But your relationship requires honoring each other so you both feel safe, heard and respected.

So does she have wiggle room? Do you have wiggle room? How can you work together to get to a place where you're both comfortable with this? Because you don't wanna like say, I'm just doing it anyway, I don't care if you're scared. That's not a good recipe for the sake of your relationship. But you also don't wanna just say,

oh, you don't want me to do it, I'm not gonna do it because you're just gonna get resentful towards her. So, you gotta work it out. It's not for me to say whether you should or shouldn't pursue this goal, only, you know, only Adam knows that, but you know, that's where I would leave it. Get granular, figure out at the goal where the- We'll get global first.

Get global with goals and values, then get granular, then build a deck so that you can- Present a PowerPoint. So present it to the wife. And get her to rubber stamp that thing. That's what you're saying. No. Oh, no.

No. As someone who is raising a young person with a lovely lady. And as somebody who likes adventures and you like risk. Yeah. This is right up your alley. I've been dealing with this. But I do find that when you can communicate

why it means something to you, you have a better chance of- The why is huge. Yeah, the why is huge. You have a better chance of winning people over, but it also means that you have to show up when it's your time and you have to, like you've talked about it, it's in your book.

You know, you had like, you were taking on some of the biggest things you ever took on while having small kids. And that meant that you couldn't be tired from your 100K bike ride. Walk in the door, like completely exhausted. Here you go. Julie handed me a baby and said, see ya.

Right. Yeah. And you need to be available for that. So, you know, we both know this and it sounds like Adam knows it too, because he's not just like dismissing it entirely. He's, it seems like, you know, he wants to do this thing. He wants, you know, sometimes it's like. And maybe you work up to it.

Maybe you compromise by doing, you know, a more modest race this year and demonstrate your good faith. Like you met that goal and you also were able to show up. So then your wife has more comfort with you tackling something else. And perhaps she's less afraid. Like, does this have to happen this year?

Can you work up to it a little bit more gradually? There are seasons to life and like maybe used to be freer and you could do these things a little bit easier, but that doesn't mean that was better. It just means you're in a different period of your life now. And so you can't judge your current period based on who you used to be. You have to judge it on who you are now.

And then that period will pass and you will be able to take on some more risk at times. I mean, that's just the way things go. That's how I look at it. And so I'm not trying to like get underwater, you know, five days a week, because it's unrealistic, it won't happen. If I do that, I will never work.

And you know, that's not good. So like I had to figure out a way to make it work and it's constant communication to way to make it work and it's constant communication to continue to make it work. And so I would just urge constant communication and just getting to know your goals. I have not done the deep dive of goals and values. That sounds really interesting.

I try to, I kind of live in more of a improvisational state. Yeah, I get that. I like that. I get that. Cool, well, let's move on. Yeah, you're very good at these by the way. Thank you, that was good advice, Adam. Really? You think I'll make one of those reels?

Yeah, I think so, we'll see. This is your moment, like you gotta throw down. I made one. Throw down like the dope, the just super dope monologue and I will for sure put it up. What if I like brought in my own like cool music and just hit in like a boom box. It's time for my reel,

Rich. Are you ready? Ready for my reel? Hang on. I'm trying to find this next one. I had to go deep in the archives for this. All right, here we go.

All the way to New Zealand. Anita from New Zealand. Kia ora, Rich and Adam. This is Anita calling from Aotearoa, New Zealand. Three years ago, I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I had chemo, surgery, and radiotherapy. As part of that journey, I completely changed my lifestyle.

Now I eat plant-based, I exercise regularly, I don't drink, I go to bed early, and I have to bed early. And I have a spiritual practice. So far, so good. I feel better than ever before. I was single when I got cancer. And for the last three years, I've been fully dedicated to myself to recover and to stay cancer-free.

Now I feel ready to start dating again. But I'm finding it very difficult to find people who align to my new lifestyle. So my question for you is, what would you do if you were single today and you wanted to find a new partner? Would you be as strict about finding someone who aligns 100% to your values, or would you be more flexible? Thank you, guys. I love the podcast. aligns 100% to your values or will you be more flexible? Thank you guys, I love the podcast. I can't thank you enough for all the knowledge and inspiration you share, bye.

Thank you, Anita. I'm sorry that you went through cancer, but it sounds like you've come out the other side healthy and that's great of course. It also sounds like maybe you're from Argentina and not New Zealand. Oh really? It's not a New Zealand accent.

No, but she lives in New Zealand. Yeah, she does. Why Argentina? I don't know, it's a twang of Latin in there that reminded me of a friend from that part of the world and sounded familiar, who knows. Was your friend named Che Gue of the world and sounded familiar. Who knows? Was your friend named Che Guevara? He was not.

Are you trying to lure me back into the culture war, Adam? The OG culture warrior. I am resisting. I will not be a profiteer. Anita, so thank you for the question. I'm probably not the best person to ask about dating because I've been with my wife for 22 years. But I will say this, I think it's healthy and better to spend less time focusing on the qualities

of the person you're looking for, like identifying in your mind, like this person that I'm looking for has to have these things in order for me to be interested. Like to the extent that you can kind of let go of that and instead focus more on continuing to become the person you aspire to be, I feel like that's a better use of your energy time

and also a more powerful lever and magnet towards attracting that person that you're looking for into your life that you might not really even be able to define and identify. Because being the most developed, authentic and self-actualized that you possibly can be is the most attractive that you can be, right? The more that you can develop those capacities,

the more confident you are, the more that you can develop those capacities, the more confident you are, the more steady you are in standing in your own two feet, tall and just owning your space. And that's something that radiates when you walk into a room, you always know like, oh, that person knows who they are. Like there's something innately very attractive about that because we all wanna be with somebody

who knows who they are and owns their space. Yes, if they don't know who they are, that means they have amnesia and you should not date them. Well, I mean, you know what I'm saying. I'm just kidding, yes. Yeah, it's like this attractor, like you put, it's a force field or attractor beam that ends up attracting the quality of person

that you seek to have in your life. I've said this before, but it's like, imagining yourself as a lighthouse, like you're putting this signal out into the world for those that, and those that resonate with it will become attracted to you. Like water rises to its own level. So level up to attract the like-minded person.

And remembering this idea that like a partner doesn't and will never complete you. Like that's not their job. Your job is to complete yourself. So it's not looking for that externality to be the missing piece in who you are. Like do that on your own time with yourself. And when you solve that puzzle,

then you're ready to be in the world and attract the person that you desire into your life. And on the subject of like flexibility and trying to identify people who share your values, I think it's important that intimate partners share core values. The former question was kind of all about that, like finding shared core values.

But beyond that, I think it's important to not be too rigorous or demanding when it comes to how that person embodies or expresses those values. In other words, like let go of rigorously attempting to match with someone who aligns 100% with everything you're interested in. Like if you look at my wife and I,

we're incredibly different people. We align on values, but we can also be like oil and water. Like our marriage is not without friction, but there's something about that alchemy that's been this incredible growth experience for both of us. Like her differences have pushed me to grow in ways that I probably wouldn't have otherwise.

And hopefully I can say the same for her. And that alchemical kind of concoction has been a really beautiful aspect of our marriage. It's hard at times, it makes it really hard, but I wouldn't trade it for anything. And had I been in a position of just trying to find the person who met my criteria and they need to be this person who does these things,

I would have missed the opportunity and missed the gift. Cause we're all constantly growing and evolving all the time. So if you're like, my partner needs to eat exactly the way that I do, and they need to do the da, da, da, da, da, da. Like you're just setting yourself up for frustration. So maybe expand the aperture a little bit.

And also you're dating, you're not getting married. Like go out and date people, like have fun. If it's not, if it's like, it's not a fit, then it's not a fit. Like no loss, you had an experience meeting somebody. It's not a failure, It's just another experience. A hundred percent. I'd say be flexible.

They do not have to meet a hundred percent of your criteria. Have fun, feel it out, explore the mystery. It's like good creative projects. You never know where you're gonna land and your life is like that, right? Even people who you're saying know who they are actually don't really, to be honest with you. Nobody knows exactly who they are or who they're saying know who they are actually don't really, to be honest with you. Nobody knows exactly who they are

or who they're gonna become. And so you don't even know where you're gonna be in 10 years. I'm not saying you're not gonna have certain values that stick with you and are important to you. What I'm saying is you don't know how that will evolve and evolve you. And so, just because you meet someone,

even if you're as close to 100% now, that doesn't mean that's gonna be the case in 10 years. It's about, does the communication overlap? Can you grow together and allow people to grow a little bit differently? Because hopefully that will happen. And that's gonna take being at ease in the mystery and doing a creative projects at ease in the mystery.

You've survived cancer. You had to figure out how to stay at ease in the hardest mystery of all. This is dating. And it can be hard, because when you're, we don't know this person's life or Anita, has she been married before?

We don't know anything about it, but we know that as a single person, I know what it's like post-divorce. It is lonely sometimes. So the mystery is not always enjoyable, but you do have to find a way to be at ease in it. Cause like that ease is going to be critical in enjoying your life, let alone meeting a partner.

So, you know, how can you find ease in the mystery? Adam Skolnick coming through with his reel. Oh shit, I forgot to hit the music. You're good at that. Fantastic, I think that's a good place to wind it down for today. Beautifully put my friend, always good to share space with you. Thanks for having me.

It's good, I feel like we got like, I feel we're connected. We're pulled back in. Yeah, you feel all right? Yeah, are we doing this again in two weeks? Do you think anyone's still listening? No. Right, it's liberating, right? Yeah, are we doing this again in two weeks? Do you think anyone's still listening? No. It's liberating, right?

Say whatever the fuck you want. That's why I'm at my best at the end. The stakes are low. Stakes are low. This doesn't matter. It's all a stage, what's he call it? A rehearsal stage? The rehearsal.

The rehearsal space. Have you been watching- No, that's on my list. We'll talk about it next time. I just finished it last night. It's unbelievable. I'm too busy watching off label, red hot chili peppers, like failed docs and Instagram.

You gotta get down with Nathan Fielder. The rehearsal is really quite something. Okay, I'm in. So next time. I'm in. All right, buddy. Cool, I think we're back in two weeks. If we're not give or take, but I'm pretty sure we are.

Cool. See everybody back here again soon. Thanks for taking this ride with us. You can follow Adam at Adam Skolnick. I'm at Rich Roll everywhere, except on TikTok. I think it's I am Rich Roll. Again, we need your questions. Leave us a message, 424-235-4626.

If you wanna check the show notes for the links to everything that we've discussed, It's 424-235-4626. If you wanna check the show notes for the links to everything that we've discussed, visit the episode page for this episode, episode 700. Congratulations. At richroll.com. And hey, you know what? Why don't you subscribe to our YouTube channel and maybe on Apple podcasts and Spotify while you're at it,

just go full bore like you're at it, just go full bore. Like you're at the buffet at a Las Vegas casino and you're just going all in. Yeah, and then subscribe to the newsletter. And if not, we'll subscribe you. And then you can unsubscribe and then subscribe again and keep on subscribing because it is very gratifying to unsubscribe to newsletters.

So I'm giving you that opportunity. It's so good, it's so good. I love it. Appreciate everybody who helps put on the show. Adam and I do not do this alone. Jason Camiolo, audio engineering production, show notes, interstitial music and more. Blake Curtis and Dan Drake for all the video work.

Daniel Solis for graphics. AJ Akpudyete for TikToks and more. Davey Greenberg and Grayson Wilder, although Grayson moved, he's not with us as much anymore. Where'd he move? He moved to Tennessee. Oh. And now we have Giselle Peters, who's been fantastic.

Thank you, Giselle, for portraits. Although we got Dan today because nobody could come. Yeah. So today's photos. Dan Drake. On the socials by Dan Drake, Georgia Whaley for copywriting DK for advertiser relationships.

That's the engine behind all of this. And theme music is always by my boys, Tyler and Trapper and my nephew Hari. Thanks guys for that theme song that just refuses to go away 10 years later. No matter how much I wish to move on and transcend it and try something new, the fans have spoken. So anyway, thanks for the love you guys.

See you back here in a couple of days with another awesome episode. And until then take us out, Adam. Peace. Plants. Adios. Adios. Thank you.