The Rich Roll Podcast - Roll On: What A Decade of Podcasting Has Taught Me About Life

Episode Date: November 10, 2022

Welcome to the 2022 season finale of ‘Roll On’, our semi-bi-weekly version of the podcast where we indulge in some good-natured banter and ramble on matters of interest across culture, sports, politics, literature, art, self-betterment, and more. Today Rich and Adam talk endurance news, concerning politics, streaming selects, answer listener questions, and more. Rich also expands on the lessons he’s learned after ten years of podcasting and the wisdom he’s gleaned from some of the brightest minds on the show. Watch on YouTube Show notes + MORE: bit.ly/richroll716 Newsletter Sign-Up: https://www.richroll.com/subscribe Enjoy! Peace + Plants, Rich

The Rich Roll Podcast. All right. You have your head in the game? Dude, I'm so here. I'm so happy to be back. Good. Well, we're about to hit our zone two stride, but first. Not to hit our zone two stride, but first.

We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care. Especially because, unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices. It's a real problem, a problem I'm now happy and proud to share has been solved by the people at recovery.com, who created an online support portal designed to guide, to support, and empower you to find the

ideal level of care tailored to your personal needs. They've partnered with the best global Thank you. search by insurance coverage, location, treatment type, you name it. Plus, you can read reviews from former patients to help you decide. Whether you're a busy exec, a parent of a struggling teen, or battling addiction yourself, I feel you. I empathize with you. I really do. And they have treatment options for you. Life in recovery is wonderful, and recovery.com is your partner in starting that journey. When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com and take the first step

towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care. Especially because, unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices.

It's a real problem. It's a real problem. A problem I'm now happy and proud to share has been solved by the people at recovery.com who created an online support portal designed to guide, to support, and empower you to find the ideal level of care tailored to your personal needs. They've partnered with the best global behavioral health providers to cover the full spectrum of behavioral health disorders, including substance use disorders, depression, anxiety, eating disorders, gambling addictions, and more. Navigating their site is simple. Search by insurance coverage, location, treatment type, you name it. Plus, you can read reviews from former patients to help you decide. Whether you're a busy exec, a parent of a struggling teen, or battling addiction yourself, I feel you.

I empathize with you. I really do. And they have treatment options for you. Life in recovery is wonderful, and recovery.com is your partner in starting that journey. is your partner in starting that journey. When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com.

Adam, are you sure you have your head in the game? Yes. Should we do the game? Yes. Should we do the show? Let's do it. Fuck yeah. Hey, everybody. Welcome or welcome back to Roll On, where Mr. Adam Skolnick and I are back in the lime green chairs to banter

across this absurdly long table. What are we gonna do today, Adam? You know what? Before we even get into anything, I'm gonna say straight up, I'm under prepared for today. You are? Yeah, it's an experiment. Well, I've over prepared.

I think I've generally over prepared for these roll-ons and then I end up looking at my iPad the whole time instead of making eye contact with you. Let's do a segment where we just, it's called uncomfortable eye contact. And we just- Oh, I'm an expert at that. We can just, it's called uncomfortable eye contact. And we just- I'm an expert at that. We can just, we just can't look away.

It's called the uncomfortable- This will create an exceptional listener experience. Yes. You don't have to speak. You just look at each other. Yeah, great pod. Great pod. Good, you know, awesome dude.

What are we gonna do today? Well, we're gonna celebrate a couple of milestones. Probably get a little bit random here and there. Less focus on Newsy type stuff. That was the result of a creative meeting we had. We'll see how that goes. Is that real? Well, I'm the executive producer here.

You are. So I'm making that executive decision. Yeah, I don't know. Do people really want us delving into the headlines? Some people do. Maybe, some is some enough. I think more on the life lesson-y type shit. I like that.

That's what we're gonna focus on today. Of course, we're gonna answer a few listener questions and then call it a day, bro. Nice. It's raining out and we have other stuff to do. You might. Yeah, well, you got a few things going on. Why don't you check in?

But actually before you do that, I wanna make a little bit of a request or an ask to the listeners and the viewers. For long time fans of the show, you know that last year around the holiday season, we did this special episode around listener stories where people called in, they shared their experience of the podcast,

how it has sort of benefited their lives and some storytelling around that. And so we're gonna reprise that episode. It was really special, it was very cool. And if you would like your experience or your story considered for inclusion in this episode, leave us an extended voicemail at 805-421-0057. That's 805-421-0057.

Last year, this was really meaningful to us. And I think also to you guys, the audience, everybody who listened and reached out seemed to really enjoy it. So we're excited to do it again. We've already gotten a huge response, but obviously we can always use more. So if you missed it last time,

because we haven't been doing that many roll-ons, get on it. So last time, and I'll include this in the show notes as well, of course, the number is 805-421-0057. Love it. Yeah, man, so how you doing? What's happening? Well, I've just started my new business. I don't wanna, well, it's not launching just yet,

but because we obviously we just hit this inclement weather season is upon us, but we're excited to debut it next spring. It's drizzling in 65. Oh yeah. Sorry. It's my new Instagram picnic collab with LeBron James. upon us, but we're excited to debut it next spring. Oh yeah. Sorry. It's my new Instagram picnic collab with LeBron James. Okay. Yeah, LeBron and I have been working

on our driftwood shelters and our wildflower wreaths. And we're gonna have romantic picnics available for anybody who wants to pay the price tag. Right, to join the two of you. No, we're the ones that put on, we cater. He's quite the patisserie. I mean, I don't know if you knew that. I'm sure there's a joke in here somewhere that I don't get

because maybe I don't follow basketball enough. No, no, no. Explain. You know these picnic collabs? Don't you see these Instagram picnics around the beaches? No. You've never seen one? I'm 56 years old, Adam.

I am not in that like silo of Instagram or whatever it is. There's a weird thing where like people share picnic photos. Like I'm confused. Yes, there's romantic, there's a thing. It is a pandemic business that popped up and there's Instagram picnics. Like you pay and someone has like created a habitat for you to enjoy like a nice romantic meal on the beach.

And then you take the photos and you're like sipping, whatever and eating your fine food. Do they take the photos of you for you? I don't know, I haven't gotten that far. Does that include uploading them for you as well? I think you probably upload yourself. And where does LeBron come into this? I just, you know, I pitched him the idea

and he was in, he was over at the, at Ben and Jerry's the other day. Right. And so, yeah. And so while I was there, I just, he thought, he thought that I had a genius idea. And you know, he's a businessman, so. Right.

I pitched him. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I'm hoping a businessman, so. Right. I pitched him. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I'm hoping to get him. I might be premature with announcing. Maybe table this one for now. You don't like this one?

Yeah, no. All right. Go back to scooping the cream. That's it. You can indulge the dream. That dream is not the dream. I'm a lifetime scooper. But with your feet firmly planted on the ground

and back to a three-dimensional reality, you do actually have some pretty exciting news. I do, I do. So on December 6th, the sequel to David Goggins, Can't Hurt Me, his second book is launching. It's called Never Finished and it is finally finished. There were times there we wondered if never finished.

There's a little irony in there. For a while, we worked really hard on it, man. We've been working on it for, we worked on it for about a year and a half. And then obviously it encapsulates not just this, but the last four years, how he's, his life over the last four years, plus stories and episodes from his past life.

So in that way, it's almost like shades of Sedaris at this point, like he is, or Sedaris, I should say. David Sedaris? Sedaris, yeah. And you know how he can unpack his life and deliver it. David has got that. The comparison ends there though. Like I can't think of two people less alike than David Sedaris and David Goddard.

But in a way there aren't, because I don't know if you knew this about David Sedaris. He is like a psycho with his steps and he walks. He collects trash for eight hours a day. 30,000 steps. So, but my point is, is that he's got this corner of the literary world now that is really about, it's his memoir, it's his life

that he can continually unpack and shape and entertain as well as educate readers and listeners. And so it's kind of like, I'm just trying to figure out how you compare it because there's nobody that's doing that. And so it's like shades of that. And it also meets kind of the last American samurai kind of book of philosophy.

It's like Goggins graduate school. So if you loved Can't Hurt Me, this is like his true philosophy. That's how he describes it. Can't Hurt Me is like Rocky. This is kind of like how he actually does it. And it's the same kind of concept. It's stories from his life in chapters.

That's the main story. And how he's dealt with the ups and downs the last four years and where he's going. And I think people will be very surprised and impressed. And then in between that, instead of challenges, there's evolutions. And so it's all about kind of evolving and these life lessons that he's learned throughout his life

and kind of uses today. So that's it. It's the audio book, once again, we do the chapter, we do an evolution, we talk, unpack it further. Right. And do you read the chapters like you did last time? I am the narrator in the chapters and then we talk in between.

Goggins has some, a bit of narration as well and then it's just incredible. So all of that's happening. It's spectacular, really honored to have been a part of it. We're really excited about it. And so we'll see what happens. We got some competition in Prince Harry. Yeah. Michelle Obama again, but we'll see what happens. Oh got some competition in Prince Harry. Yeah.

Michelle Obama again, but we'll see. Oh, is Michelle Obama coming out with a book again? The same time that, wow. Three weeks earlier again. Tete-a-tete with Michelle once again, very interesting. Well, I know that you've been working on this book very hard for a very long time. We've been cagey about it on the show.

You'd come in and you'd say, well, I'm deep in this project, but you couldn't really talk about what it was. So, obviously you've shared a little bit more with me about what you've been doing behind the scenes. And this is certainly a long time coming, super exciting. Clearly there's a massive audience who is anticipating what this next book is gonna be.

I did see David's announcement on Instagram where he published that little video. And he told this story about how people's second books usually suck or that's what he was told. And how he shared this book with some trusted advisors and friends. And they were all amazed that this one is actually better than the second one.

The first one was sort of a teaser. He was playing it a little bit on the surface because he didn't wanna go too far because people might not be able to handle like the full 100% Goggins. And once he realized like, oh, I tested this, there is an audience and an appetite for what I have to say. Now we can go deep and is seemingly very encouraged

by this book that you guys worked hand in hand on. And that is crazy exciting. So soon he's gonna be everywhere, I'm sure. And also let's not forget once again, self-publishing. They should be teaching his model at Harvard Business School. Like what he's done as a self-published author is completely unprecedented.

We think, I mean, the words I've heard is that it, nonfiction, it's the biggest self-published book ever. I'm not sure if that's true. Cause I haven't looked at the numbers myself. Over 4 million now it's like going towards four and a half. Does that include audio or is that just- That includes everything, that includes audio.

And what is the percent? I would think audio might be like, it's probably usually like 40, but it's gonna, it's gotta be over half. Yeah, I think it's, I think I don't exactly have the number. I think it's like 60, I'm pretty sure. Right. And, but that, you know, he's been a product

of the audio space, you know, like that's like, in terms of how he kind of got his fan base. I mean, that's how it happens. So it's not surprising. I think, you know, he set the standard to try to exceed, can't hurt me, not in terms of sales, but just in terms of quality of the book. It's never been about sales because if he wanted to do sales,

he could have put a book out two years ago. And it's never been about that. It's about delivering something to the reader and having the reader in mind and having something, it's very much about thinking of how the reader is going to come out of the experience of this book. And I think that's special, you know, and it's challenging.

And when he first said, you know, he wants to be better than can't hurt me, I thought, wow. I mean, I didn't think that was a reasonable goal to be honest with you. But you know, he's not about reasonable goals and he tends to exceed the unreasonable goals. So I believe- That must have been daunting from your perspective

entering into that with that objective. Well, it was to, you know, look, so the way I try to make writing as easy as possible for me. So I don't think, I try not to actually think about the end game because all I can do is the process of it and make it the best it can possibly be.

I didn't think we'd get there, about the end game because all I can do is the process of it and make it the best it can possibly be. I didn't think we'd get there, but now, I mean, we'll see how people respond to it. I love this book. There's so much love put into it. I can't wait to talk about it more, like when the book is out and we can talk about it more, but like what he has done and achieved,

some of the most incredible athletic accomplishments I've ever heard of, how he's dedicated his life and in the direction it is now, I think it's gonna surprise a lot of people and it's just another level. There's lessons on leadership, there's lessons on day-to-day living, there's lessons on how to kind of overcome obstacles

from being at the bottom of the barrel of course. There's darker stories than I think, even some are darker than you've heard and can't hurt me. So just to be a part of it is obviously was a thrill for me and I learned a lot from it. And I can say, I feel like I'm a better writer for having done it. So all of those things make me really excited to share this. Yeah, super exciting man. Yeah, thank you. I'm proud of you for having done it. So all of those things make me really excited to share this.

Yeah, super exciting, man. Yeah, thank you. I'm proud of you, it's great. I'm excited for you, I'm excited for David. Thank you. And it's a powerful message that clearly resonates with a lot of people and needs to be more broadly amplified to the culture.

No doubt, no doubt. I mean, I think that the lessons in here, you remember like the last four years. So we're talking about the pandemic, we're talking about, you know, X, Y, Z. So like a lot, you know, we're not, we don't dwell on any one thing like that, but there is, you know, Goggins will explain

how he dealt with it in his own way. Yeah, cool, man. So again, the date that it comes out is December. December 6th. So we'll put a link in the show notes, pre-order it. All that good stuff. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, yeah, we're excited and look forward to hearing how people respond to it.

And thank you to all the Goggins fans and Rich Roll fans who are on the train with us. Yeah, cool. You got recognized up in Big Sur. It happens every once in a while. I love that when that happens for you. Thanks man, It's fun. I don't know how to hand,

I don't know where to put my hands. You don't know where to put them. I keep them myself. Put them on the phone for the selfie. That's it, the selfie. There you go, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, buddy.

How are you, man? What's going on? I know you were at the formula, you were in the pits at the F1. Yeah, I had an exciting experience in Austin a couple of weeks ago. There's a lot going on. Julie's in Egypt right now.

I think she's got another five days there. She's been gone like two weeks or something like, almost two weeks. She's hosting a retreat there and is having an amazing experience. But so I'm kind of at home with all the kids and being a homebody at the moment. But I did take Tyler and Trapper the boys to Austin

for our first inaugural Formula One experience at the Austin GP. Was it like a happy birthday to me type trip kind of thing? Yeah, it was my birthday. So we flew on my birthday, which was October 20th, turned 56. Happy birthday. Thoughts on that as well.

And I thought a little boys trip could be fun. The boys are super fans. I had always found Formula One to be kind of an impenetrable sort of sport. Like I knew about Schumacher and how he got paid a lot of money. And clearly this is a big deal in Europe. But to me, it was sort of like football, soccer,

like I didn't really know that much about it other than that there was a massive fan base and those people are extremely passionate about it. And then Drive to Survive, the Netflix series occurred and I was all in on that. Like I found that series to be incredibly captivating and created this emotional connectivity with all of the different characters

and gave me just enough information to understand on a very base level what was occurring. It's very surface level, that series. But is that how the boys got into it? Like by watching that series? They were already kind of into it and that kind of deepened the connection, but they're so into it now,

they subscribe to the streaming service and they get up in the middle of the night to watch the races that are in Europe. Like they follow it very intensely, much more so than me. But I'm up to speed enough where I would consider myself a fan and I thought it would be really fun. So we went and we bought general admission tickets,

but I knew a few people and I was like, I don't know if we can, what we can kind of finagle here, but I've had sort of an internet friendship with Angela Cullen, who's Lewis Hamilton's performance coach for a number of years. And she invited us to come to the paddock on Friday, which is practice day. And she got us into the Mercedes garage and gave us a tour, which was like unbelievable.

We met Lewis briefly, got to check out engineering and really observe the mechanics and the engineers and how they work together. Got to meet Toto Wolff, who's the team director, met Lewis very briefly. Brad Pitt was around with Jerry Bruckheimer. They're having meetings about the Formula One movie. Like it was crazy.

When is that happening? They're gonna be shooting it next year and they're gonna be shooting parts of it at the races. I think next year there's gonna be a race in Las Vegas and they're gonna shoot at that race. So that was cool. Like Lewis Hamilton is a producer on that movie. Tim Cook was at the race

because Apple TV is financing the project. So there's a lot of like interesting characters walking around. Crazy. And once you're kind of in the paddock, it's sort of this VIP kind of red carpet experience where you can mingle around and the garages are all in a line and they have hospitality suites

on the opposite side of each of the garages. And people are just kind of going in and out of these all day, including journalists and team directors and drivers and crew and all that kind of stuff. And it was just amazing to be a fly on the wall and observe all of that and to be privileged enough to be in the garage and kind of not only watch them assembling the car and like taking the undercarriage

off and putting it back on and having somebody who explained to us why that's important and what goes into the science and the engineering of that. And then to have Angela gave us headphones and we were able to hear the drivers communicating with engineering, giving feedback while they were doing practice labs, which was like crazy. Amazing.

The amount of science, engineering, teamwork, communication that goes into Formula One is like beyond. And then shout out to my new friend, Sean Doss, who is an endurance athlete, who's coached by Chris Houth. He ran Marathon du Sable and is a sport agent. He's a sports agent out of London. And one of his big clients is F1. And he's in charge of this hospitality experience

that they are curating and creating at Formula One. And he was able to get us paddock passes on Saturday and Sunday to watch the race and kind of co-mingle around what was going on there. And like, well, he was a new friend. And like, we went in expecting nothing and we ended up with like the most privileged experience you could possibly imagine, which was pretty cool.

And it was fun to see some other friends there. Dan Churchill was there, who's a podcaster, friend of mine, New York City restaurateur, has a restaurant called Charlie Street. He was doing some food and beverage stuff for Sean at that hospitality suite. And Mike Gervais was there. It was cool to see him, some other folks,

and just really kind of enjoy the race from a beginner's mind perspective. And like sort of reflecting upon that experience, there's some interesting kind of takeaways other than just like me sharing this fun birthday weekend. It left me thinking a lot about the genius myth. And the genius myth is something that I've also been thinking a lot about

because I just saw the movie Tar, which is all about the genius myth. I don't wanna spoil that movie. It's certainly an Oscar contending motion picture. Please go check it out if you haven't seen it already. It stars Cate Blanchett as this heralded maestro, this conductor, like the greatest music conductor, living music conductor, who's very celebrated, conducting the Berlin Symphony.

And it's a story about her life, fictional character. But it really upends this genius myth in that we as a country sort of like to hoist up these incredible high performers and delude ourselves into believing in that we as a country sort of like to hoist up these incredible high performers and dilute ourselves into believing that they are outliers that are able to kind of do what they do in isolation. And the truth of the matter is

whether you're conducting a symphony or you're driving a Formula One car, you are supported by gigantic teams of people who work very diligently and hard to make you look like a genius. And when you're in the garage of Formula One and you just see dozens and dozens of people, and then you're in engineering and all these people

on laptops running diagnostics and the hundreds of people who are back at the headquarters for the team who are working on the car and improving the car and communicating with the engineers and the mechanics. Like it's insane how many cooks are in that kitchen and the kind of flow of communication that is required in order for that driver to sit in that car and perform at the highest level.

We all see the pits where they come in and the pit crews who operate so flawlessly and sort of magnificently, but behind them are all these other people who are kind of doing the same thing in a way that's a little bit less sexy or romantic. Or accessible. Yeah, accessible, right?

I was like able to watch this and I was like, my head was exploding, right? And then seeing Tar and it's really about the same thing, like all of these wonderful symphony musicians that support the conductor and make the conductor look good and all the behind the scenes kind of stuff that goes into, you know, creating the quote unquote genius. And then the kind of narrative spooling

that the quote unquote genius does themselves to brand build and create that idea that they are a genius. And then to kind of upend that and deconstruct that and realize like, it's not to say that there aren't extremely talented, gifted people, but nobody sort of excels at the highest level at the elite level in anything without an unbelievable foundation of support

from lots of people who are not in the spotlight. And that goes for this podcast and everything that I've achieved. I think you would probably concur. So I've just been thinking, kind of a lot about that subject matter. There's no doubt about that. Yeah.

We're all, the interconnection just doesn't go away. Even if you're involved in a project, if like sitting, you're writing and you're tapping away, even if it's a project of my own, you're still dependent. Even if you're just reporting a project, if like sitting, you're writing and you're tapping away, even if it's a project of my own, you're still dependent. Even if you're just reporting a story from your, you're dependent on sources, you're dependent on editors, you're dependent on an operation

that keeps a publication alive. You're always just tapping into some sort of part of the interconnected matrix in some way. And now, in some places you can see it much more easily. I mean, the fact that the conductors are like considered the genius is pretty funny in that because they're not actually playing the music and like, you know, Lewis-

But they're interpreting the music. They're interpreting it, right. They're making choices about how that music is expressed. And they're arranging, yeah. And they're seeing things you don't necessarily see. So you need those kinds of soothsayers. I mean, we have them, we have kind of the curse of the genius.

Now we're seeing the dark side of genius is like it's kind of our era now. Yeah, there's a little bit of that. I don't wanna go down that sewage drain hole at the moment, but I will say that I think there's something inherently American about the whole idea as well, because this is a country that's built on this notion of rugged individualism.

And we prioritize individual success and excellence over the kind of collective, the collective success of the whole. Right. And we love those stories. And even if we can poke holes in them and say, yeah, well, that person did that, but like we could take Elon Musk and say,

well, he's a self-made man. But if you really rigorously analyze that, you do realize that it is a myth in many ways. Like he had help from lots of people and some of the stuff about the way that Tesla came to get, he wasn't a founder of Tesla. Like there's a lot of things about that where you realize like, oh,

he has worked with teams of people and benefited from that and has been a builder of teams or whatever. But the idea that the sole genius idea is never truly meets rough scrutiny, hard scrutiny. Right, the idea of the rugged individualist bootstrapper, you have the vision, you can make it happen kind of thing.

But in America, we love that. And we don't wanna hear differently. We love, it's almost like it's part of the fabric and it came out of, I don't know, the birth of the country where people, the first settlers who moved here were like felt kind of cloistered and there was too many laws and too much law and order in England

and a king and that tells you what to do. And here you can just visualize it. If you wanna do it, do it. And that lasted, of course, that was never 100% true because there were people that were enslaved here pretty quickly. And then there were native American people who were here that didn't get quite a voice to do what they wanted.

But this notion of manifest destiny and the kind of Mark Twain idea of like lighting out on the frontier and all of that is inherently American. Yeah, yeah, and because of that, I think that's in there. And there is, that goes to why we're so obsessed with kind of like people are obsessed with individual freedoms,

why like some people were really offended by the mask thing or the vaccine recommendation. Other people were like- Any inroad on individual liberty is seen as a transgression. And it's not responsibly calibrated against our responsibility to the collective. Like I talked about this with Ryan Holiday on the podcast

and I shared a reel where he articulated that notion very concisely. And it was met with not derision, but I would say controversy. Like people don't like to hear that, but you know, your liberty is only as valuable as the responsibility with which it's sort of packed in with, right? Well, April says it all the time coming from Australia, where there is a sense of collectivity. That doesn't mean that there aren't people who chafe against restrictions and aren't interested in individual freedom anywhere.

I mean, there is people rebelling against restrictions. Historically, we've had that, like during periods of duress for this country, whether it's World War II or whatever, where we've endured a kind of a communal, stressful experience for the nation, we've been able to cohere and come together and recognize that level of shared responsibility

to each other. But that seems to be something bygone. Like I'm not sure that we could recapture that. Well, I mean, but there, like if you go to Australia and you rent a car and cruise around, you'll notice if you're the American, you're the one speeding. Like there's things like there's rules that are adhered to

in a much more kind of communal way than we have here. I'm not saying that's better or worse. I'm just pointing it out. So she sees that like people speeding or breaking the driving rules. We're like, we just take that as, okay, yeah. Why not go a little faster? It's fine.

It's not that way there. People are just more ingrained to the collective over there. That's just the way it is in the majority. And it's interesting. I was thinking, same thing with people who are interested. I saw Teddy McDonald the other day. He's now spending, his family's moved to Austin. He comes back and forth.

And he was saying, he talked, he met up with someone who's from San Diego and was so loving Texas because you can open carry there. And I thought a good solution to the open carry, I'm not saying we shouldn't open carry if you wanna open carry and that's your state. What I'm saying is you have to commute by horse. Well, if you're a strict constructionist, Adam.

They'd be commuting by horse. That would be construed as an impediment on the expression of your right to bear arms. What about spurs? Can they wear spurs in their Honda Civic so that when they get out, I just wanna hear them coming. Can they or do they have to? They have to.

Yeah, I don't know. No. It's not gonna work. We're not going there? No. I gotta see Tar. It's at the top of my list. I think Kate Blanchett is like,

I mean, she's the top of the game. She's gonna win the Oscar for that movie. Like her performance is just luminescent. Kate Blanchett is like, she's the top of the game. She's gonna win the Oscar for that movie. Like her performance is just luminescent. It's quite an extraordinary movie. It's probably different than what you might expect. I don't know what people- It's a cancel culture movie, isn't it? Well, there's an aspect of that.

I wouldn't say it's a movie about cancel culture. There is sort of a component to the narrative that entails, yeah, that kind of experience. I don't wanna spoil it beyond that, but the other movie I would recommend, and I don't know why I'm recommending it cause I haven't seen it yet. That's what we do in the internet.

But I know, cause I've done some reading around it. This is bad, right? I'm gonna like talk about a movie I haven't seen. This goes right into a future subject. I'm only gonna say positive things though. Banshees of Innocent, which I know you're excited to subject. I'm only gonna say positive things though. Banshees of Inassurance, which I know you're excited to see. I'm very excited. I mean, like who doesn't love McDonough?

This guy's a genius. If you've seen In Bruges, I know that's one of your favorite movies ever. In Bruges, yeah. And Three Gold Birds. He's pairing these two guys again together, Colin Farrell and what's his name again? Colm, no not Colm.

Not Colm Meaney. Look that up somebody on IMDB. Yeah and then we'll cut it in. Yeah, exactly. I feel terrible, I can't remember his name. But anyway, like I do know and I don't wanna spoil this even though I haven't seen it. I know that one of the themes is,

it's basically about a fractured lifelong friendship where one guy is sort of a happy-go-lucky dude played by Colin Farrell and the other gentleman- Brendan Gleeson. Brendan Gleeson, yes, thank you. Has decided that he wants his life to be about something more meaningful and can't hang out with Colin anymore and he's gonna devote his life to his art,

which is music, right? Right. And so it's the theme being like the split within all of us about what it means to live a good life. Like what is a life well-lived? Is a life well-lived one that is devoted completely? Like I'm sure McDonough struggles with this in his own mind.

Like, should I just devote myself to my work and my legacy and these plays and these movies and these screenplays that will live beyond me after I die and just put all of my best energy into that. Or should I be the guy who goes to the pub at two o'clock every day and has a laugh with his buddies and goes home like feeling connected to his community? Like what is, like if you you're just gonna, you know,

create a binary around those two things, where do you devote your time and your energy? And this is a movie that I believe from what I understand grapples with this and, you know, is about that struggle that I think is very relatable. We all think about that sometimes. Should I just, like, if you think like life is relatively meaningless, then you should just fuck off

and try to have as much fun as possible. Right. Not stress about too much. Well. Or if you take yourself seriously or you're buying into this genius myth or you think that you're here for some kind of purpose, then you should be at the expense of community,

friendship, love, family, relationships, be investing all of your creative juices into your work product while your brain is capable of doing that. You know, it makes me think two things. First of all, Ernest Hemingway used to write from like 5 a.m. to noon and was at the bar every day. Right.

Every day. Yeah. So he figured it out and he has a bit of a legacy. Yeah. Well, and also all of that every day. Right. Every day. Yeah. So he figured it out. And he has a bit of a legacy. Yeah. Well, and also all of that other stuff was part of his writing. Right, right, right.

Like he merged those two experiences. But I do relate to that because I think life is seasonal. Right? There's these seasons that you have. And I just look at it that way, more of a continuum of seasons. And it's like, I have another book I could add to this pile in my car.

It's like a Buddhist kind of like everyday read a passage of seasons. And it's like, I have another book I could add to this pile in my car. It's like a Buddhist kind of like everyday read a passage type thing. And one of them that really stuck with me because of the season I'm in is that life is basically in seasons. Sometimes you're gonna be free to go diving with your homies every day. And sometimes you have to sit in an office

and stare at your computer. And then you have to be kind of committed to your family and you have to, you're growing a kid and you're watching him grow and enjoying that. And there's just, there are restrictions on the seasonality and within those restrictions and tensions, genius comes through. So when you have too much time and you're,

so I think that, I shouldn shouldn't use the word genius, but like moments of transcendence come through. So there could be moments of transcendence in the wide open escape. And there could be moments of transcendence within the seasonal pressures that you're under. And you can't access everything all at once. Like life is just not like that.

So the more we can embrace the conditions that we're in is probably better. And you know, if that, I can't wait to watch this movie like that. So the more we can embrace the conditions that we're in is probably better. And you know, if that, I can't wait to watch this movie because in bruises, like I said, one of the best written movies of all time. And so the, maybe the best written comedy I've seen, and you know, I don't know who knows how long maybe ever. And, but I love, I can't wait to see how Brandon Cleese and Colin Farrell go back and forth. Whereas one buddy has decided, no, and Colin Farrell go back and forth where his one buddy has decided, no, I'm a musician now.

It's gonna be hilarious. But I do understand that. Colin Farrell's just confusion over his buddy's sudden decision. I understand the pulling back. I've done it in different ways over the course of my life. It's not always a great idea because in the end that interconnectedness exists

and we do need all these different kind of support systems. So I can't wait to see how it plays out. I just hope there's an evil Ralph Fiennes in there. I don't know if he shows up. No, not this time, not this time. Yeah, all right, well. What do you think to that? I have some more thoughts and it kind of dovetails

into turning 56 and having this birthday, but let's take a quick break and we'll be back with some more thoughts. All right. And we're back. I do wanna share one thing before we get into like sort of reflections on getting older. And that is the-

Welcome to the getting older podcast. We're just gonna get grizzled and gray and like- Wait till you guys hear- Mash our teeth about the young people. Yes, you can hear a foot story coming up, which is very exciting. Speaking of exciting, should we talk about Fuzz Bubble? Fuzz Bubble.

So Jason Camiolo, long time audio engineer slash producer, sitting right over there. He's the heavy around here. He came up in a band called Fuzz Bubble. They had their moment of fame back on MTV, on P Diddy's label. Jason ended up, you know, kind of moving in a different direction with his life after that experience

but Fuzz Bubble is getting back together and they are going on tour, which I'm super excited for. And they got an album coming out. When's the album coming out? Yeah, where is the? 20th. The 20th of November, Fuzz Bubble's new record. Is that gonna be on Spotify and all that kind of stuff?

Everywhere, all the places. What's the album title called? Cult Stars From Mars. Is that gonna be on Spotify and all that kind of stuff? Everywhere, all the places. What's the album title called? Colt Stars From Mars. I love it. Colt Stars From Mars. I love that album title. Excellent. And you're gonna be playing Huntington, New York

on November 19th. Correct. Any other shows or just that one show? Wasn'tville, New York on the 18th. 18th, all right, cool. So we'll link up that. All right, thank you. Very cool.

Thank you. Never too late for the dream, bro. No, man, you gotta keep it going, right? You gotta do what you love. Exactly, so here we are, I turned 56. That's fucking old, no matter how you slice it. Is that why you're wearing a cardigan? Is that a cardigan?

Yes, this is what older gentlemen wear. I'm wearing kind of like a cardigan-esque thing. A little bit, a little bit. And it's had me kind of reflecting on getting older. That's old. I don't, what? You're like, that's old, bro. It is old.

Like I'm closer to 60 now than I am to 50. You are. That's fucking crazy, right? And it's inescapable. Cause now when I look in the mirror, I'm like, damn that gray hair, it's all over the place.

Are you kidding me? You look fabulous. No, it's, it's really coming in hot. You know what though? You know what? Can I stop you right there?

From the chest down, Steve Martin, just pure Steve Martin from the chest down over here. Just all white. You mean? You're talking about you. Just coming in. Okay, all right.

You have a lot of dark hair in your beard still. My beard's basically entirely white. I'm like Santa Claus. I do feel, I don't know what you're supposed to feel like at 56, I do feel physically quite good. I have a lot of energy and I want to be able to channel that energy in productive, positive, fun, community building ways while I can.

I had a great time at this Formula One experience and it was great to be around a lot of people that was different from me. Like I'm kind of this lone wolf guy who just kind of does his own thing. And I'm having serious FOMO about the New York Marathon, New York City Marathon, which was yesterday. We were recording this on Monday.

It was on Sunday. Had tons of friends participating in that race. I know you were in Malibu and April ran the half marathon. Congrats to April. Yeah, yeah. Ted McDonald was down there as well. Yeah, they both finished really fast. Teddy was like 130 something and April was 143.

And I couldn't do it. I was signed up for that race. And because I'm also getting older, I'm 50. I tore my post tibial tendon in training. And it was like a slow unwinding of a rubber band in the middle of my foot. It felt like a cramp in the connective tissue with that little.

I ran home, it was like a mile and a half run home. And I'm like, that's not good. And I waited like a week and finally went to the doctor, had the MRI. My foot's been fucked up for a long time. So it was probably heading that way, but I couldn't do it. So I'm like, I ended up getting PRP injections. I'm gonna get some more, hopefully no surgery, but I couldn't run it. So I know the feeling, you know, you wish you, I wanted to be, I ended up getting PRP injections. I'm gonna get some more, hopefully no surgery,

but I couldn't run it. So I know the feeling, you know, you wish you, I wanted to be, I wanted to do it, man. I was like, my body wanted to do it. You know, I was there. Yeah. And I thought I can run in these hiking boots. No, that would not have been smart.

But I had the same feeling about New York City. I wanted to run that race. My back issues prevented me from training for it. And then I had to kind of watch it on Instagram, watching, you know, Alexi Pappas and Shalane Flanagan. Oh, so many podcast guests, like Alexi Pappas, Shalane Flanagan, Hella was there kind of covering it.

And he did, he like, I think it a day or two before the marathon was his 2000th day in a row of running on his run streak. And his shoe sponsor, Hoka gifted him with like this golden shoe, like a trophy. And he had a big group of people that he was running with. Casey Neistat ran. So that's the latest podcast that just went up.

Casey, we recorded that last summer. Davey running 350. Amazing. He's not here today, cause he's still in New York city. Shout out to Davey. William Gouge, he came, he was out at the house. Was he? Yeah. He was in LA for a couple of days and came out.

He's a stud. O's running 240. I mean, come on. O's told me that that was what he was hoping, that's what was his goal was 240, but he felt like he has more to give and he's like gonna, he inspired him to get, get after it even harder. That's what he told me was 240, but he felt like he has more to give and he's like gonna inspire him to get after it even harder. That's what he told me.

This guy is unbelievable. And he blew up, he had this big viral moment from being with the Seahawks. Did you see that? No, well, no, I haven't seen the Seahawks one yet. And there's the Tampa Bay one too, right? Well, the Seahawks one was huge. So there's all this video of him.

It's Pete Carroll and he's with the Seahawks team and he's doing what he does. And he guesses like the security code to one of the guy's phones. So he can like, and these guys are like pissed. They're like, they can't believe it, right? And that video, like ESPN shared the video, Barstool Sports shared it.

Like Dave Portnoy wrote a blog post about it. So like suddenly O's was in a different like stratosphere of kind of recognizability. And then, you know, just relentlessly, like goes from one thing to the next, throws down a 240. Yeah, as if it's nothing. A casual 240.

Cash 240. At the New York City Marathon. Robbie Ballinger was there, again, my boy. Did they all run it? A casual 240 at the New York City Marathon. Robbie Ballinger was there, again, my boy. Did they all run it? Churchill, Des Linden was leading the race. Like, yeah, like tons of people ran it. And I was like, fuck.

I didn't know Robbie ran it for some reason. He showed up, yeah, with his wife and ran it with her. So anyway, it looked like a lot of fun. Incredible. And I was like, never again. Like whatever I have to do to get my back correct to get back into it, like I wanna be there next year for sure.

That's your goal? Just to have fun, like not to like, I mean, my goal is really to be pain-free and to be fit and solid enough so that on any given day, I can go out and run a marathon or ride a century or do a swim run or do something and just have fun with it. Like, you know, not to be like rubber banding

in and out of shape and all that kind of stuff, but just to be in like a constant state of fitness, preparedness and readiness to be able to go have fun experiences with other people. Like that's a big goal of mine for the next year. Yeah, I have the same goal as to like get more full body. Goggins has ordered me into the gym.

And so to lift weights and just to get more, he thinks that my problem was a hundred mile months, three months in a row without like, I wasn't really, I'm just wonky and it wasn't really ideal for me. And I should have topped out at 80 mile weeks during that period. And I probably would have made it to the race day. And just by doing that, by pushing a little harder

when I wasn't fully like balanced in my body, like muscular wise. So I've been ordered into the gym. Good. And so I'm gonna be doing that. Me too. I'm in the gym too. Good, good, good, good.

What about the pool? Is the pool okay for your back or not really? Is it the pushing off that's not so good? I haven't been swimming very much. The flip turns I think are really the inhibitor there. It's not the swimming itself, but I'm just trying. I'm like, my focus really is the gym right now to get as strong and as stable as possible.

For the same idea, right? Yeah. Yeah. So we'll see how it goes. We can trade notes. My money is on you, buddy. I wanna see the workout that he wrote up for you. He hasn't written them up. He's giving me ideas. And then I think I'm not ready for his workout.

I think, I think, I think, I know, I know. How about 70.3 dude? Yeah, so Christian Blumenfeld snapping back after Gustav clutching the Ironman World Championship victory out from beneath them. Following week, Christian says, yeah, watch this. Pulls it right back. I mean, was it just one week or two weeks?

Two weeks. I think it was two, three weeks. Two weeks, not three weeks. Two weeks. I think it must've been two weeks, 10 days, something like that. But on their podcast with you, there's a foreshadowing of this

because Gustav said to you that he takes him a long time to recover. Whereas, and Christian said that he can go week to week to week and just keep grinding out these races. He like doesn't accumulate lactate. Right, and so Gustav kind of in two ways kind of tipped this off. One way is that his focus is now all the way on Paris.

So he wasn't even thinking about 70.3 anymore. He had seems to have like, I hit 70.3. I did Kona Ironman. Now I'm gonna get that gold medal and that's where he's at. Whereas- Well, they just did Bermuda. I think it was yesterday,

which is short course Olympic distance. And I think I should be up to speed on this. I didn't read up on it as much as I should, but I think Gustav was top 10. So to go from Ironman to Olympic distance and be top 10 at the elite level without any kind of training modification in such a compressed period of time,

like bodes well for Paris. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know where Christian ended up in that race. It just shows that, but like Christian, he's so hungry, he just wants race after race and he lost and so he wanted this win. I just find it interesting how they, on your podcast, they basically told us Christian recovers better.

He can race again two weeks after an Ironman easier than Gustav. Right, well, but what's also another added interesting wrinkle to that is that I think Gustav is actually like has a higher kind of threshold. So he's technically should be faster, but if it takes him longer to recover, how does that work? Right. I don't know.

Cause they're very different athletes. It's a fascinating discussion between the three of you. I loved it. And, you know, this, but this particular race I was watching it and Christian had that late downhill push leaving American Ben Canute for the win. On the women's side, the women's side, I mean, the women were almost as fast.

Like the men finished their bike ride with an average speed of 28 miles per hour. I think the women were like in the 26s. I mean, they are fast and Taylor Nib, another American rising back up and winning. You know, the Americans are rising back up in this sport now. We saw it at Kona, right?

With the second place. We see it here with the second place and on the men's side. And then two first place finishes with women that were just not even thought of as real contenders. I mean, no one even, they were off the radar. Not that they weren't contenders, but they just weren't talked about. And so now the Americans are kind of rising back up

in the sport. So that's gotta be exciting. I mean, I know people that you're friends with must be really excited about that in this triathlon world. It is cool. Yeah, it is cool. There is a shift. I think it's a new,

like just this new generation of really interesting athletes who are gonna be competing at the highest level for many years to come. Yeah, it's cool. But from that, let's switch gears. I do wanna touch briefly on the 3,100 self-transcendence run. Insane. My favorite race.

Yes. Where they run around a block in Queens, like 800 billion times. Yes. To accumulate 3,100 miles, basically in 52 days or less. It's essentially running 60 miles a day until you've run ostensibly the distance of going from one side of the United States to the other.

I had Sanjay Rawal on the podcast a couple of years ago. He made a documentary about this race called Run and Become, 3100 Run and Become. You can find that on Prime Video or you can listen to our podcast. In that it follows some athletes who, and their kind of life stories and why they do this thing. One of which is this guy, Ashprahnal Alto, who's won it a couple of times and he came in second this year. The interesting thing about this though

that I wanted to draw attention to is that there was a Ukrainian and a Russian who were running it. And Outside Magazine wrote this article about these two guys who are friends. Yeah, Ben Pryor. You know this guy, Ben Pryor. Ben Pryor is a Rich Roll listener. And he reached out to me, Rich Roll listener. And he reached out to me and we worked together.

He's done some research for me in the past. And he wrote this beautiful piece on this. Yeah, I loved it. It's pretty cool. You're gonna link to it, yeah? Yeah, I'm linked to it. And the power of running to reach across boundaries and create some level of unity and a bond for peace.

And also within yourself, finding, you know, like. Well, that's what the whole 3,100 thing is all about. It's this search for self transcendence. And you can't solve the world's problems if you can't transcend your own problems. And that same kind of thread runs through your podcast. It runs through the Goggins book in both books. You know, like that's what makes it unique.

That's why people want kind of this nectar, I think, because it is something you have to continually look for because otherwise you just get distant from it. You don't. Well, you never like transcend it completely. No. It tends to snap back. Yeah.

And I can tell you for a fact that that is, you know, my experience of life. Yeah, life snaps back in your face. The minute you think like, oh, you've mastered something, you will be rudely reminded that the work is never done. Yes. But beautiful, Matt. Yeah, so we'll link up that in the show notes.

We should touch base on this guy, Ned Brockman, who ran across Australia. Did you follow this story? The 23-year-old electrician? Yeah, this guy's off the rails. He ran from Perth to Bondi, 50 miles per day in 47 days, covering nearly 2,500 miles. And he was raising money for a homeless charity.

And he overcame like so many injuries. And like he at one point was sleeping two hours a day. I mean, it was amazing. And he got this huge following like Forrest Gump style, didn't he? It's crazy because people run across America all the time. And like, I've had lots of those people on the podcast and it's like small groups of people

are there kind of good job. And maybe they have friends and family and a hundred people meet them at the beach when they finish or in New York city. I mean, Hella had a nice crowd to greet him when he completed his run. This guy though, I mean, throngs of thousands. Like if you go to his Instagram,

like he finishes in Bondi beach, like look at all these people. If you're watching on YouTube, I have his Instagram up right now. It's Ned Brockman, two D's and two N's, Brockman. Unbelievable crowds of people to cheer this guy on. And this dude is like the most Aussie, Aussie in the history of Aussies.

Like he's got a mullet and like the way he talks and the vernacular and the use of like Australian slang. Like, I don't even know what this guy's talking about. 90% of the time. Fast talker. I'm planning on being in Australia in January. I wonder if I can track this guy down. You got to.

See if I can convince him to come on the podcast because I would love to hear more about this dude. And he's 23. He has like positive energy. People love him. There's something really cool about it. He's not 56. Mad respect.

He's not 56. I'm literally twice his age, Adam. No, you're more than that. Should I be bummed about that? You're not literally twice his age. Oh my God, that's undershooting it like dramatically. Yes, thank you, I appreciate that. On the subject of being excited about somebody

who did his own crazy thing, this guy, I wanted to shout out this guy, Paul Minter, who is a dude in the UK, a military guy who lost 14 comrades to suicide more than he lost to combat. He was a soldier and he founded this mental health charity called Head Up for the military and developed this range of positive mindset techniques. And to kind of raise awareness for that,

he ran 5,000 miles of the United Kingdom, like around the periphery, I believe, the periphery of the United Kingdom to raise awareness and money for military mental health for this retreat center that he's trying to build, which is really cool. So anyway, yeah. I went to Andrew Huberman's live show.

He sold out the Wiltern Theater, was great. Did his thing, it was unbelievable. Got to commingle with all of his fans. It was super fun. That's another weird thing about this era. Now it's- Professors are- Professors are playing the Wiltern.

A neuroscience professor could sell out the Wiltern Theater and perform a neuroscience two hour lecture to a group of people who are taking notes and completely engaged with what he's doing. Like when you feel pessimistic about the future, like that is something that gives me hope. I think it's cool. Everything everywhere all at once.

What's the connection? Isn't that, didn't that movie just come out or something? It came out like a year ago. All this good stuff and bad stuff is all happening all at once. Yeah, I feel you. All right, I don't wanna dip too deep into the culture wars,

but there is a certain issue that I think demands our discussion and our redress. You wanna launch into this, Adam? It's a strange time to be a Jew. That's a quote from this book. One of several books I will be. Michael Chabon. Michael Chabon, the Yiddish Policeman's Union,

a great murder mystery. Read that one. And it's always a strange time to be a Jew in that world, which it is. And it has been lately. We don't have to get too deep into it. We all know what happened with Kanye or Ye. Is it Ye?

Ye or Ye? Is it Ye? Ye. Ye. He wanted to go DEFCON 3 on the Jews, even though DEFCON 3 is kind of like in the between. DEFCON 5 is bad. So DEFCON 3 is just a scolding.

Right, it was weird that he chose DEFCON 3. Like either go all the way in or like deescalate. Right, right. DEFCON 3, just moving up a little bit. We're gonna incrementally increase the threat. You know, it worked because there were banners over the 405 kind of saying Kanye was right and people honking, Kanye is right about the Jews and a lot of people honking.

There were mailbox incidents in Brentwood and Pacific Palisades where kind of anti-Semitic literature was distributed. Cars were vandalized with swastikas in Calabasas. I know somebody who had that happen or I know a friend of a friend, excuse me. There was this in Calabasas who had a swastika painted on their car?

Not painted, keyed. Wow. And that same message that was on those banners over the 405 was projected on a football stadium a week ago at the Florida Georgia game in Jacksonville, 100,000 or so people there. And the universities of both Florida and Georgia had to issue statements kind of obviously saying it wasn't us, it wasn't an organized thing and we condemn this. And then right after that, not too long after, Kyrie made his post where he was promoting a movie that's on Amazon. And you can find the movie. I'm not gonna go spend that time on this platform

to talk about it, but I will just say that it was a very antisemitic and it basically is a Holocaust denying movie among other things. And it talks more in like the overall global conspiracy kind of jargon, just like Kanye was getting at. And that is, you know, that Jews run the world and they're pulling a fast one or whatever it is.

And those same kind of ideas have been around for a long, long time in neo-Nazi circles. All of these tropes that are resurfacing are age old and timeless. Like they're the same arguments that get resurfaced whenever antisemitism flares up. 100%, 100%. So then there was like after Kyrie's thing,

there wasn't like some people spoke up, but it took a long time, like days passed. And yes, the owner of the Nets, who's Kyrie's team that he plays on the Brooklyn Nets, said something right away. And then there was this kind of lull and nobody said anything. The NBA didn't condemn it, didn't suspend him.

Nothing happened until I give full credit to Charles Barkley and Shaquille O'Neal and Reggie Miller, Malibu's own, who on inside the NBA and while they were doing their games last week, they just spoke out very strongly against Kyrie and in support of Jewish people. And so that was cool.

I mean, even after the Kanye stuff, there was support on Instagram of people speaking out. So there was a mix there. Pretty universal denouncement. Yeah, so there was a universal denouncement of Kanye. Then the Kyrie thing happened, there was almost nothing. And then that happened. And so this, it is a strange time.

You're seeing the kind of the anti-Semitism, you're seeing the support at the same time, strange times to be a Jew. But through all of that, in the defense of, and in the denunciation of, I noticed that people don't really fully understand what anti-Semitism is or what these tropes are about. And I don't actually think, I mean, I could be wrong.

I don't think Kyrie is, I don't think Kyrie probably even watched the movie to be honest with you. And I don't think Kyrie hates Jewish people. I think he's gullible. He's a flat earther guy maybe years ago. And I think even people who defended Jewish people don't fully understand it.

And so I just wanted to take just a couple minutes to talk about how I view it. And that is that Judaism is not just a religion. That's why people a lot of frame it. I didn't mean to insult your religion. It's not really just a religion. It's a tribe of people that have existed without a country for almost their entire existence, right?

Kicked out of Israel in Egypt to slaves, trying to get back to Israel, kicked out of there again, end up in Eastern Europe mostly, but all over the world. My family came from my father's side from Russia, my mother's side, Latvia and Poland. And they lived their life here. They came over in the end of the 19th century, beginning of the 20th century, depending on which side,

mostly beginning of the 20th century. And when they were here, Jews weren't considered white people. And it was the influx of Jews that actually ramped down immigration laws. So all of a sudden the wide open immigration wasn't wide open anymore because of so many Jews and Italian people, but mostly Jews that were coming in.

And so this idea that it's just a religion is where I just want to point that out. That's just not correct. In my opinion, it's an ethnic minority group with a shared history and it's been under attack, not just on the right wing. We all know that Charlottesville chanting Jews will not replace us, but on the left, like I consider what Kanye and Kyrie are doing is more on the left side of things. Kanye is probably on the right, but Ky is more on the left side of things. Kanye is probably on the right, but Kyrie more on the left side of things where there has been an increase in anti-Semitism,

quite frankly, straight up. And a lot of that is conflated with legitimate criticism of Israeli policy in Palestine, but some of it is not. And you'll hear the same new world order, kind of like George Soros is evil shit, which is the same thing that they used to say back in the early 20th century about the Rothschilds, the same shit is being reproduced now,

that you'll hear that in yoga studios. I mean, you will. And so you'll hear that on the left a lot. And so what we need to do is we need to combat this ignorance. Obviously it's always ignorance. Any sort of prejudice is just ignorance. It's just displaying your own ignorance.

We know that. And so I would just encourage people who are not familiar with Jews, and there's not that many of us. A lot of people are not friendly with us. So not for any reason, just they haven't met us. There's a great documentary out right now. It's a series by Ken Burns.

We all know how great Ken Burns is. It's the US and the Holocaust. It dates back to how American Jim Crow policies actually influenced the Nazi regime. And then it doubles back and talks about how, you know, early industrialists like Henry Ford were actually in line with the Nazi regime and all of that.

But then it gets into real heroism and people who supported and spoke out against what was happening. You'd be surprised to know that like, when the finally during early days of World War II, when it came out that a million or so Jews had been exterminated in Europe, that wasn't front page news.

It was like on page eight. I don't know why. You'll see in this documentary, it wasn't on front page news. It was like on page eight. I don't know why. You'll see in this documentary, it wasn't on front page news. The only paper in the country that had it as front page news was a Pittsburgh newspaper. I think it was the Pittsburgh Courier. It's a black community newspaper.

And they were the only ones that put it on the cover. And so, and that's because they had their own intimate experience with like oppression and a genocidal kind of background. And so I just, I think that it's important that people watch that. It's a great primer. And I think, you know, the only way

to kind of eradicate this ignorance is by shining a light on it and trying to get to know a bit more about the subject. I think if you haven't read it, obviously Diary of Anne Frank, Anne Frank's family stories in that series. Man's Search for Meaning is like right up the alley of this podcast.

Sure. Victor Frankl was in Auschwitz and this is a story of survival, but also of trying to find humanity in that situation. And then there's Elie Wiesel who is, this is a very dark story of his experience in the Holocaust. So those are great books. I highly recommend, but if your thing is watching video

and watching movies, Ken Burns is the gold standard. Obviously we know that. It's riveting stuff and I highly recommend it. Yeah, cool. Thank you for that. It is so strange and disconcerting that there is this weird groundswell right now of this sentiment percolating up, like why now, what is going on?

And what's so strange about antisemitism is the weird and disturbing ways in which it kind of prods both left-leaning and right-leaning people. Like on the one hand, it's the ethnic minority who's penetrating our border and like taking our jobs and the non-white people, right? But on the other hand, it's also the people who have like sort of ingratiated themselves into culture

and ascended to positions of power and are secretly controlling everything. So it's like both of those things at the same time. And that's what fascism is, right? When the right and the left meet, that's why it's scary. But I'm not here to say that I feel like we're on that trip down that memory lane to that dark place. I don't think we are, I don't believe that at all.

But like, listen, I've experienced antisemitism my whole life. It just happens. You know, like my great uncles and my grandparents, they endured it on the streets. I've had so many just like comments at me or around me my whole life. It's fine.

We are not really geared to vocally fight it. We're more geared to ignore it and just get on with it. Like if you look at Goldman Sachs, I'm not telling you that I think Goldman Sachs is a great institution, but Goldman Sachs was started by Jews who couldn't get jobs on Wall Street because they were Jewish.

And so then they started Goldman Sachs and like, look what happened. Hollywood started by Jewish people. So these kinds of businesses, I think that's where these myths and these conspiracies come through. They didn't need Wall Street to build Goldman Sachs and then dominated Wall Street.

So that's going to engender a certain jealousy. I just think that, obviously Kyrie made a mistake. I think Kanye is having mental health issues personally. Not an excuse for that behavior and I'm not here to excuse it, but it just shows that we all have work to do, I guess. Yeah. I mean, I am encouraged by the essentially,

broadly unanimous denouncement of all of this, but there are pockets of people for whom, that Kanye's messaging like resonates with them, which is disturbing, right? And you can't separate that from the impact of social media and the internet on how it's shaping and warping brains alike, right? In terms of like, what we're seeing spill over

into real world ramifications and culture, which brings us of course to Elon Musk buying Twitter. It's very controversial. Yes. He's sort of this, you know, incredibly successful serial entrepreneur, richest man on the planet, who is kind of turning into an edgelord, like interested in like, you know,

basically being extremely online on Twitter. Yeah. And has purchased this platform where he reigns supreme. And it would appear as of today's taping is kind of making the rules as he goes. Now, listen, I think Twitter has a lot of problems. I think there's room for tremendous improvement. I would like to see it turn into a healthy ecosystem

for global discussion. Elon Musk seems intent on making lots of changes. As of right now, I'm not exactly sanguine about those changes being as positive as I think we would all like. And this seems to be evolving moment to moment as we speak. Today, it was something like-

He's like this hard line policy on like you can't impersonate anybody unless you declare that it's sarcasm. But all of these accounts were turning their names into Elon Musk and then he's like banning them. And it's like, it's weird right now. Everything that's going on. Because sarcasm is always funnier

when you say it upfront. But if Kathy Griffin is changing her profile name to Elon Musk, we all know that it's sarcasm. Does she need to declare that? And then her account is suspended. Like what is, maybe there's something good about having a hardline policy of like nobody can impersonate anybody.

We'll see what happens here. This seems to be changing literally hour to hour. The latest I heard was that of all the people that were fired, now they're trying to bring a bunch of those people back. Did you see Kevin Ruse's kind of- Well, he's got this new podcast now called Hard Fork of Casey Newton.

Right, right, right. And they did a whole deep dive last week on it and actually interviewed some Twitter employees about what it's like, their lived experience of being there and kind of living through all of this. Are you gonna fork over your eight bucks a month? Is that even happening?

Yeah, I guess that's already a thing. There's an update where people are doing that. Are you doing it? I have a hard time imagining doing that. Like I have problems with this in that it seems like really what you're getting out of it is amplification of your tweets. If you don't pay the eight bucks,

they've basically said they're suppressing your tweets and nobody's gonna see them. So is this a free speech thing? That doesn't seem free speech. Like I think there is a bot problem and I think verification is important and it would be nice if everybody was vetted and you had to actually prove and establish

that you are who you are. I think that would solve a lot of problems. And I think there is friction when you say you have to pay, suddenly a lot of these bots and bot farms are gonna get weeded out. But I'm not sure this is the best way of doing that, but I'm not a computer scientist nor a social media engineer.

I just know that this is a very unhealthy situation right now and it feels very tempestuous at the moment. My friend, Reese Pacheco sent me a couple of, he's in finance and he's working on a great project, I should say about kind of trying to find climate solutions, but in, you know, investing in, in climate solutions for profit. And he sent me a couple of like diatribes on this. And one of them was like this new social network that

they're talking about. I know Jack Dorsey has a, is in beta on a new thing. And so like, I signed up for that beta just to see. Did you, it's a good idea. I mean, but what would, what will happen? Like all these people who are on Twitter, who had like hundreds of thousands of followers, they're not gonna give up on,

like if they go to Mushroom or whatever it is, they're gonna start at zero. Mastodon, what's Mastodon? Mastodon's one of them. Is that Dorsey's one? No, no, no, I don't know who owns Mastodon. The Dorsey one, I forget what it's called, but it's still in beta.

Like you just give your email or whatever. It's been interesting to see Jack Dorsey clap back on Elon a little bit also because- He's gone both. Because well, Jack wanted, like Elon was the person that Jack really wanted to inherit this. And he felt very strongly

that Elon could solve these problems. Now it seems to be that there's a little bit of friction between them, it's hard to tell. The genius myth. I mean, yeah, here we are again. Here we are again, like, yes. So what is actually happening? To me, it looks like a dumpster fire right now,

but maybe he can do this, I don't know. Do what though? What is the, what problems is he solving? Good question. Right, there's no problem to solve here. Like the problem is- Also we're going into the midterms right now and like he's just fired staffs and teams of people

who are involved in content moderation to avoid a lot of the misinformation that leads to all of these problems that we're seeing with alleged voter fraud, et cetera. I would like it if Elon could figure out a way to get the democratic party to stop emailing me. That would be good. How many emails are we getting?

I can tell you in the last two weeks, I literally get dozens of text messages, phone calls, and like I spend hours every day reporting junk and like unsubscribing from emails, but literally in the last five days, yeah. I mean like how many text messages are you getting? Text message, email, phone calls. And they're all desperate and thirsty.

It's like, it's not in, like who's in charge of email strategy? None of it seems like it's going well. It's not good. Yeah, it's like, we're gonna lose. Yeah, with this attitude, you're definitely going well. It's not good. Yeah. It's like, it's like, we're going to lose. Yeah. With this attitude, you're definitely going to lose. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One campaign. So come Tuesday, tomorrow, at least all of that will stop. Hopefully. Hopefully one campaign emailed me 14 times within a 24 hour period. I told April, I said this campaign

and 14 times. And she looked at me, she goes, you're gonna lose bro. That was her message for that campaign. You are not winning. Oh man, all right. I mean, all right, let's crawl out of this desperate black hole. Yes. All right, let's take one more break and we're back with more.

All right, and we're back. I do wanna note, because we haven't done a roll-on in a while. Yes. And this might be the last roll-on of the year because we go into December. I've got some travel coming up. I'm not gonna be around.

And then in December, we do our best of episodes. Unless you wanna do like a Zoom roll-on. We can't do a Zoom roll-on. Are you kidding me? Trying to get it, I'm trying to get another roll on in. We might have to prerecord a roll on that we could, we'll see. All right.

I'm trying to get one in listeners. There's a chance this might be the last roll out of the year. I'm trying to get one more in. In which case, let's like bring it back to, you know, something helpful to people. Let's do it. Can I start, can I start? Yeah.

Happy 10 year anniversary. Thank you, sir. 10 years, 10 years. To this week? To this podcast. To this week? To this podcast. To this date? No, I think it's kind of around Thanksgiving. I think it's near the end of around the 23rd

or something like that of November. Can we turn this on guys? So we are celebrating 10 years. We did the last roll on we did though, I did do those 10 or 12 things that I've learned from doing this for 10 years. So I don't wanna completely reprise that cause that was a little bit of a,

we were kind of celebrating then, but there was. So when we first started, I'm gonna show this video. We were early on the video because Julie and I would record these little teasers about the podcast. So this was like for like episode four or something like that. This is on YouTube. Looking good.

Look at that. All right, I can't even, I can't watch myself. We're talking about my crashing journey from today. I actually feel a little bit better. Like, oh, I think maybe I've gotten better at this podcasting thing. You have, you have. But early on in video.

Look how great you look. Doing like, I looked, I was fit then. Now I feel like motivated to get fit again because I am looking pretty fit there. You look great. Anyway. You both do, it's great. The point being,

Look at her looking at you lovingly. We're in this warehouse where the acoustics you could hear are terrible. I'm liking the fact that if there's a fire that breaks out, you're gonna handle it. You think so? Well, yeah, look at the fire extinguisher. Oh, there's a fire that breaks out, you're gonna handle it. You think so? Well, yeah, look at the fire extinguisher. Oh, there's a fire extinguisher there.

Anyway, yeah, it's crazy to look at that 10 years. And of those kind of lessons that I shared last time, I felt like I rifled through them really quickly. There were three that I kind of wanted to spend a little bit more time on. The first of which, and the reason being that I think that these lessons are applicable and informative to anybody who's trying to achieve

or accomplish anything meaningful in their lives. And the first one, and perhaps the most important of all of them is consistency, right? Like the reason this podcast is successful is that over that 10 year period, we never missed a week. We always uploaded.

We never succumbed to perfection paralysis. Not every episode was amazing, but we just had this mission of like every Monday we upload no matter what. And now we do, you know, a couple midweek kind of things, but that whole like Monday morning, there's a new podcast up every time, no matter what, we've never missed.

Professionalism. So yeah, and so you learn as you go. And as you can see from this video and my cringe worthy disposition, they're not all gonna be perfect. You're not gonna be great when you start. And that's not the point. The point is to marshal the courage to weather through that

and continue to keep iterating and doing in the face of understanding that it's not gonna be amazing all the time. Yeah. And this is the case for you as a writer. It's the case for me as an athlete or anything that I've accomplished in my life as a result of doing small things with extreme regularity and consistency.

That's how you move the needle. So you look at these big goals and they're giant mountains that you have to climb. And there's something sexy about, you know, planning your flag and declaring that as your goal. But in truth, whether or not you accomplish that goal has everything to do with all the tiny little things you do every single day when nobody's paying attention

and nobody cares and it's very easy to flake out and the stakes are low. 100%, that's the case of being a writer. You need to work the muscle. It's a craft, it's not a talent. You can have some talent and affinity for it and some natural talent, but that's not going to get you anywhere in a professional way, in my opinion.

It could if you also just happen to have like built in attention, like you can focus and get something amazing out. And then maybe yes, you can be a wonderkin, but for people like me who did have some skill, but just couldn't, it took me a long time to actually be good as a storyteller. I could turn a phrase,

but to actually get good at this took me years and years and years of frustration and just make an appointment with yourself to go do it. And even now I'm doing it. Being willing to be bad. Like even if you like reduce the stakes even further in your daily journaling practice or whatever it is that you're trying to kind of master,

doing it privately for yourself and allowing yourself to be bad so that you get out of that mindset of being stuck or thinking that everything you do has to be great. And I'm just thinking about like this next book that you did with David Goggins, after like this just unprecedented success of the first book,

it would be very easy to be paralyzed and say, well, maybe we'll do a second book or maybe not. Like it'll never be as successful. So why do another book? Let's go do a podcast or let's do something else. Like let's not even try. Or to go into that second book saying, well, there's no way it could be,

that was a flash in the pan one time thing. So, okay, well, we'll do this book, but like, you know, it doesn't have to be that good because it'll never be as good as the other thing. But at least then we have like, I can be of service to him and then we can, and obviously Jennifer Kish is involved deeply in this. And then it's like a team that-

Right, I'm saying the courage to show up anyway in light of like all of that and then get to the other side of it and actually create something that everybody feels like rivals if not altogether exceeds the original book itself is a result of having the courage to like not pay attention to not be paralyzed by that early success. And that's I think his secret to success in general

is he's always focused on the next thing. And he's keeping himself oriented forward. And then when you have it, when it's a team thing, it's a little even easier as a writer too. When it's a crew of us working together, it actually doesn't make it easy. It's still hard and he has his process and I have my process and it's all writing, it's all one thing.

But when you have each other and it's a team, it's like even easier when you're by yourself and you're hitting your head against the screen, it's a lot, it's harder to keep going sometimes. And you don't have an accountability partner because it's just you and whatever fabricated deadline you've come up with. And nobody cares.

Like at least in that sense, people really wanted it. He's been asked about it. He's been like, and people really want it. You know there's a market for it. So just like you said, yes, the easy thing for him would have been like, hey, I've made my impact, I'll go do something else

because I can do a million things and the world's open. And he chose this because he loves the process. Right, which brings me to the next thing, which is process over results. Falling in love with the process. It's okay to have a dream or a goal that is oriented around a certain kind of result. But if the result is all you care about

and the process is nothing but drudgery that you dread, you're unlikely of being successful. You have to find a way to engage with the process and fall in love with it over time, to really allow it to energize you rather than it be sort of an impediment or something that you feel like is an annoyance on the journey towards a certain result.

That's a big one. And the more you're rooted in the process, the less the results matter, because to sort of go back to the Goggins thing, like whatever the result is, you're onto the next thing anyway, because you're all about the process. And well, when you're talking specifically about writing,

that is the process is rewriting and rewriting and reanalyzing and reanalyzing and rereading and rewriting. And so to get, to be good at it, the process includes that. So that liberates you from worrying about is the first draft any good? Now it doesn't necessarily always work that way in everything that you're doing when you're on a tight deadline.

But for me, almost anything I write the first time through needs a lot of work. I mean, that's just the way it is. It's not your best work. It's the first work. And it's a way to kind of get it out. Occasionally, like the O story, it came out real smooth the first time.

It's very rare that that happens for me. Usually I chunk it out. But the point is you're writing all the time. And we're using writing as a metaphor for anything. That could be your race results or your grade in your college class or whatever it is. But the point is you're doing it because this is what you do and this is who you are.

Not because you wanna see a book on a bookshelf in a bookstore, but because you are a writer and writers write. Like I think one of the great examples of this is Ryan Holiday. Like how many books has that guy written in the last 10 years? Like he's written 12 books and he's like 18 years old.

And the reason is, is that he is a writer and he's in love with the process. And as soon as he turns a manuscript in, he's literally onto the next book, like the next day. Like he does not allow any kind of like interference with the process of being a writer. Like he's researching, he's making these cards and he goes through his whole process.

He has this box that he puts all his index cards in and how he maps out all of it. The Nabokov system. Yeah, and it's sort of, you know, when you're done with the writing and then you're onto this other phase of it, which is more reading oriented and it's all detached from whether the book ends up

on some list or how many copies it's sold. It's the process itself. It doesn't impact like what he wakes up and does every single day. Well, I respect that. I mean, personally, I will say, I think that sometimes the process does feel like drudgery. Sometimes it does for me.

Sure. And that could be anything. And I'm sure there's athletes that feel that way about training. But you do it anyway. But you do it anyway. But you do it anyway. You do it anyway. Because eventually there'll be a time in every session

where you'll find the reason you're doing it. So like, even if it feels like shit, you feel like you're running in mud for, you know, three, like for the most of your run for eight of 10 K, there might be a point where you feel like, okay, that's why I did it. It might be right at the end, might be at the end with the endorphin rush.

But if, you know, for me, that's an amazing story of Ryan. Seth Godin is the same way. I did a podcast with him and hasn't gone up yet, but you know, the guy's written a blog post every single day for like how many years? Back to 2005 or six or something like that, every single day. And he's a master of creative expression

and how you think about and pursue a life as a creative person who literally ships their work, like isn't paralyzed under the weight of their own, the pressures that they impose upon themselves. Yeah. Yep. I mean, you want to give your best effort and sometimes it doesn't feel that way

when you look back at it that day, but that doesn't matter because over time the process and the consistency is the effort. Yeah, and that's what matters. Right. Really at the end of the day, all the other stuff is nonsense because you do the thing

because that's who you are and this is what you do. It's a great thing to remember. And it's back to the final like point that I wanna make is around patience. And you mentioned like, yeah, you show up for it, you show up for it, it's a drudgery, you hate it, it sucks, it's terrible. And then you have that moment of breakthrough

where it's just flowing, right? And you're this channel and it's all working out. And you live for those moments as a writer, as an athlete, where you feel in the flow, as a musician who's writing a song, whatever it is, those don't come easy and they're not predictable and you can't manufacture them. But the only way that you can experience them

is if you're showing up consistently and make yourself available for that, right? And that requires patience. And beyond that, it's important to understand that becoming good at anything takes much longer than people are willing to like reckon with or accept. Everybody in this instant gratification culture, they want the result.

They don't wanna endure the hard work that it takes to get there. And they completely overestimate what they can do in short periods of time. Like, oh, in a year I'll be here or whatever. I can, you know, this goal. And if things aren't going well initially right out of the gate, or it's not headed in the direction immediately

that they want it to head, people abandon their path. And the truth is, and I beat this drum consistently because I think it's so important and I'm not sure that people really appreciate it or believe it, but it really does take at least 10 years to get good at anything, whether you're an athlete, a writer, podcaster, musician,

like you show up for something every single day, it's gonna take 10 years minimum before you have any kind of like solid aptitude at that, that is worth sharing with other people. I found it interesting. And again, going back to your interview with the Bergen boys, that even when they were 14, like Gustav- They were training like professionals.

Yeah, Gustav said he trained for 10 years. And even at 14, they had a 10 year plan. Right. At 14. And now they're 10 years later, and everyone's like, oh my God, nobody can do this well at their first Kona, and they're crushing it. But Gustav was like, yeah, I've been doing this

since I was 14, I've been training like a professional. This is a 10 year plan finally manifesting. So let me ask you, have you ever had a five or 10 year plan? No. Like a formal one? Not really. No.

I fall in love with certain things and I get invested in them and I pursue them. And I've experienced that I actually don't get good at them until like the decade, you know, lapses. And I'm just feeling that now with podcasting as a swimmer, as an athlete, it took 10 years. I mean, obviously I was a kid, you know, growing into it and all of that.

You know, I've heard this when I was a lawyer, it takes 10 years to build a client list and be successful. You know, you as a writer, like, I don't know. I mean, certainly there's outlier examples. Took me 20 years. Took you 20 years, writer, like, I don't know. I mean, certainly there's outlier examples. Took me 20 years. Took you 20 years, yeah. But all of these experiences that you have inform the craft.

Well, like Ryan Holiday, those guys sound very structured. I've lived kind of unstructured. April always calls it, I live the improv life or that's how she always perceived it. And now I'm getting to the point where I'm already know my ideas or have fielding ideas for next books right away.

Like I'm into something already. And so I'm now getting to that point, but I've never had the, I remember an ex-girlfriend's aunt wants to ask me my five-year plan. And I was like offended. I was like, I'm offended by that remark. I was offended.

So like- No true free spirit artist would have a five-year plan. That is offensive. Five-year plan is like a mask to the anti-masker. That's what it was like to me. I was offended by, I didn't want anything to do with that stuff. Yes, I was more free spirited and all that.

And I still have that within me. So it's interesting to like ponder that. Like, I was wondering if you'd had it, like even now that you have a whole operation, do you guys have, how far out do you guys plan? It's interesting. Like I don't have a five-year plan. I don't have a 10-year plan, but I do have,

the way I think about it is what gets me excited and what am I curious about? And I have the privilege and the freedom to indulge in those things now, because this is successful and because I'm surrounded by talented people who are very capable and can handle a lot of the things that I used to do on my own and Tyler, who's here back working with us, used to handle for me when it was just the two of us.

Now I have some added free time to think about and execute on other projects. And that is a privilege and I don't take it lightly. So I don't think about it in terms of five or 10 year plans. I think about it in terms of like, what would be cool? What would feel meaningful to invest some extra time in? Where do I feel underexpressed? And how can I express myself better

in a way that would be helpful to other people outside of the podcast? All of those things are things I think about. You have your goals though, right? You have like, during the year, you start to think about next year towards the end, right? And think about, You have your goals though, right? You have like, like, like towards, like during the year, you start to think about next year towards the end, right? And think about,

is there something I wanna add to the list next year? I mean, do you do that at all in any, even an informal way? Maybe in a very informal way. Like I said at the outset, like I wanna have a stable body and I wanna be fit enough so that I could like pop into all of these fun experiences.

Like that's a, that's a sort of vague goal, I suppose, but important to me and meaningful. That isn't wed to any kind of like timeline or anything like that. So I think setting goals is important. You wanna have a North star, something that you're working towards, but I think you also have to hold onto those

a little bit loosely. And I've said this before, like be available and open to other intervening miracles that can reconfigure your trajectory. Because if you're so like, this is what I'm doing. And you're so rigid about it, then perhaps you're also blind to other things that could be beneficial.

Right, right, right. Really interesting. I was looking at your early episodes and you had Julie on episode one and three and Chris, Jabe, is that who you were collaborating with? Yeah, he was the owner of Common Ground. He was like our host or whatever. And then you had Gabby Reese episode eight

and kind of you're off and running now on that train. I mean, I loved going through it, like looking at that. I'm like, it's really inspiring to look back and see like that trajectory for me anyway. It was cool to see. Is there any early moments you remember that where it clicked for you? Like any early stuff where you're like,

am I doing this or am I not doing this? Am I playing, am I real? Is there a moment early on? There was never a sense that this was a vocation or a business. Like it was literally like me having a creative impulse and feeling a little bit stymied on this island where I felt disconnected and uncertain

about what my next move would be. And also as a fan of podcasting, interested in this medium and had for a long time wanted to explore the possibilities there. So I did the homework to figure out how you do it because it's not self-evident how you do it. It still isn't like you do have to like, oh, how do you get this thing up on Apple?

It wasn't Apple podcast then it was iTunes. How does that work? Blah, blah, blah, figuring all of that out. And then just sitting down and having a conversation with Julie at the end of which thinking that was fun. Let's do that again. It wasn't like, oh, this is my new life. Right, right, right, right.

It was just now people launch podcasts and they have strategies and they hire publicists and they're pre-selling the advertising and they have a whole thing about like, how many should we record ahead of time? And what it was like, it wasn't like that at all. Like we were just freewheeling it and having fun and did it for a long time before we monetized it

in any meaningful way. I mean, years before it was self-sustaining in any material way, but doing it for the love of it, doing it because I enjoyed the process of it, because it scratched a creative itch and it allowed me to continue to grow and explore new ideas by allowing me to have conversation with interesting people at a time

when people were not clamoring to start podcasts. Like it just wasn't a thing back then. Like it was very unusual and not cool to have a podcast, but I loved it. And now the fact that it's like this huge kind of medium where there's so much energy and interest in is like an added bonus. It's very cool to have a podcast now.

It's crazy. Cause it was literally the dorkiest thing ever. Like it was sort of like, do you work at Radio Shack? Like you're some kind of weird hobbyist, embarrassing to admit, in mixed company that you were a podcast host. And obviously that has changed. And you used to have to explain what a podcast is.

I'm sure. Sure, of course. How many years before you monetize it? I don't think, I mean, I think we did some ads here and there for like Audible that were like, we were barely getting paid anything. So technically maybe we ran some ads, you know, maybe in the second or third year, but it had to be,

I mean, four or five years into it. But it was helping the sale of the book. So you were getting, seeing some revenue, right? Yeah, but like the audience, it also was just very gradual growth. There was never any big viral moment. There was no moment you can point to and like that's the moment where this plane really took off.

No, no, no, no. It's just very, very gradual. The whole time. Consistency. Consistency, dude. Everybody wants those big spikes, but truly if you just keep showing up and keep showing up and refuse to quit and continue to get better and devote yourself to the thing that excites you

and that you care about, then you're available for the miracle. And that doesn't mean that you're entitled to anything or that anything is guaranteed to occur, but it certainly can occur if you bail on it or you are unable to be consistent or show up for it or give it the respect that it deserves. Beautiful.

There you go. Well, thanks for inviting me into it in the recent years. Here's to 10 more years. Yeah. I still love it. I really do. And I'm excited for what's gonna happen next year too. We've got lots of cool plans.

It's really exciting. It feels like more, you're actually mainstreaming in a way. There's people who I know that listen to this that have come to you in recent years that I would never have put in one of your kind of like, you know, you had one thing I always, when I think about the success of the Rich Roll podcast,

you think of what you have these niche markets that were always kind of, you were organic, kind of you belong to the sober living, you belong to the plant-based and the endurance athlete. So we've talked about that before, but now you're getting people who aren't necessarily involved in any of those. And you're getting almost a million on YouTube now.

Yeah. I mean, it's pretty amazing. Almost a million subscribers on YouTube. I know. That's nuts. It is nuts. Yeah. I'm one of them. Do you subscribe? I'm a subscriber. I'm glad you- I'm a subscriber to both. So do you get notifications and alerts

when you show up on the YouTube? No, because I have an alert when my name is on the internet, I don't wanna see it. So I have the opposite. Okay. Can I just point out one thing? Yeah. Before we get into listener questions.

Yeah. Remember we talked about the murder of Eliza Fletcher in Memphis? I do. And we talked about kind of the danger that women face going out running. And I mean, at night, especially. And people asked, I think I got a couple messages.

Are there any solutions? I think we maybe got a phone call about that. Yeah. And we didn't have, we tried our best, but we didn't really have anything. Well, this company called Nathan, I never heard of them before in my life. Yeah, they make lots of hydration vests and camping gear and endurance running gear.

They have put together this, it's a night running hydration vest that includes a siren, like a high volume, high decibel siren that you can pull a ripcord on and it will just explode with light and siren. Wow. If you're in any trouble whatsoever,

that'll wake up the neighborhood. So it would be very hard to visualize someone hearing that and not running far, far, far, far, far away. That is an amazing solution. Yeah, it's a solution. So Nathan, you're saying they're reputable, you know them. I'm sure they are. It's a great solution. Yeah, it's a solution. So Nathan, you're saying the reputable, you know them. I'm sure they are. It's a great piece of equipment.

It's certain, you know, if you added like a little pepper spray canister in one of these pockets and you'd be fully loaded, I think to feel better. And it has hydration. Yeah. And it's reflective gear for running at night. Exactly. So it's firing on all cylinders.

All cylinders, so congrats. And Nathan, thanks for putting this together. I think women can really benefit from it. Don't you think? Yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah. Cool. Okay. All right. Let's go to some listener questions. Listener questions. Okay. Here we go. Antonia in Petaluma. Hey, Rich and Adam. I'm Antonia calling from Petaluma in Sonoma wine country. And over the past two or three years, I've been experiencing this increasingly persistent call to write a book. No, it's not fiction, not a memoir, but a book about a specific recurring theme in my life. So my question to you is, how does a lay woman like me, I have a business degree, I'm a winemaker and a yoga instructor with zero English lit or creative writing background,

go about writing a book? Where do I even start? I would like to write it myself and find a good editor, but have no idea how to go about that. I realize this is a rather broad question, but since you both have written successful books with varying degrees of previous experience, I'd really appreciate just a couple of nuggets of your wisdom. Thank you guys for creating such a great show. It's impacted my life in more ways than you can imagine. Thank you so much, and I can't wait to hear for your nuggets of wisdom. Thanks. I love this question.

Thank you, Antonia in Petaluma. Yeah, Petaluma, great town. It is. Thank you, Antonia. Listen, the answer to your question, like how do you begin? Where do I even start? You start by starting.

You have to get out of your head and outside of like all the baggage that's holding you back, all this storytelling, this narrative about how I don't know how to do it and I don't have a background in English and all of that, just get out of your own way with all of these BS reasons and get out a pen and a piece of paper or open up your laptop and start typing.

It feels like you wanna know where it's gonna lead you or you want to have all of your questions resolved and answered before you begin. And that's just not how it works. The way it works is the universe conspires to support you when you put in the work and you show up for it. So begin by doing that and something inside of you will come to life because you have this thing inside of you

that's yearning to be expressed. And it's actually, here's a way to kind of reframe it. I think it's actually an act of violence against yourself to not express it. By repressing it, you are not in loving kindness to who you are. Clearly you have something inside of you that's nagging you to be brought to life.

And every day that goes by where you ignore it or you repress it, or you look for an excuse to not actualize it is not in service to who you are. It is not in service to your authentic self that is telling you that you need to get this outside of yourself. And all the stuff you're worried about will get answered and resolved.

There are people out there who can edit books, who can help you with structure, who can fact check. And there's a lot of amazing books out there that are not by people who have some background in English literature. They're from people who have something to say. That's the most important thing when you're writing a book. I never took creative writing class. Do you have something to say. That's the most important thing when you're writing a book. I never took creative writing class.

Do you have something to say? The English part is easy. Like that has almost nothing to do with it. There are other people you can bring in to fix all of that kind of nonsense, but the having something to say, like really having something to say, that is the rare part and that is the hard part.

So remember that and just get into action, begin, make it a practice and make that practice non-negotiable, create structure around that practice and then protect that structure above everything else. Get it done, ship the work as Seth Godin would say. Ship the work. Ship the work. None of it is meaningful until you ship it, which is when you let go

and you allow it to be in the world, right? Which is scary in its own right. We wanna protect it. It's not perfect yet. Gotta hold onto it. Once I let go of it, I can't control it anymore. I can't iterate on it. There's a sense of vulnerability

that comes with shipping it. And you don't have to experience that fear or that vulnerability as long as you are continuing to tinker, right? I've been tinkering with a novel a long time. I'm getting ready, I'm getting closer to shipping, but I'm still tinkering. It's hard, it's scary.

Cause I've never, I've never, haven't had success in the novels, in the fiction space. So it's like terrifying. Right, but you have written books. So how does all of this square with you? Like, what would you say to Antonia? Well, I would say, I'm gonna give some practical feedback.

I mean, you have some interesting books that you recommend for her to kind of take a look at. The Steven Pressfield, you talk about Rick Rubin's new one, the creative act. Right, well, let me just do that and then I'll turn it over to you. I mean, you know, I've done many podcast episodes on the subject of kind of getting out of your own way

and getting into the creative flow. Brian Koppelman is fantastic on this. So search the archive for that one. We talk a lot about the practice of journaling and the importance that Julia Cameron's book, The Artist's Way has played in his writing career. That book has been instrumental in my life. It's a book that I continue to return to to this day.

I've been doing The Artist's Way on and off since 1996. Yeah, since 1996. Steven Pressfield, his book, The War of Art, and he has a couple other books in that vein, Turning Pro, et cetera. I did a podcast with Steven, but his book, The War of Art, perhaps the best book to read

on getting out of your head and getting things onto the page. Seth Godin, again, I did a podcast with him. It's not out yet, but he has a book called the practice, which you should check out similar to the war of art. Rick Rubin's book, the creative act is coming out in January. That book is fucking awesome. I'm gonna buy hundreds of copies of that book

and give it to everybody I know. It's really a beautiful book. It's a book that anybody who is interested in creative expression, whether you're a writer or whatever it is that you're trying to manifest in the world, I think would benefit from reading. And I would add to that list,

Chase Jarvis' book, Creative Calling. Chase is also a friend of the podcast has been on the show before. So in terms of resources, I would suggest Antonia that you check out all of those and then- I would add Big Magic. Put those aside and start, oh, Big Magic also, great. By Elizabeth Gilbert.

There's a little bit of Big Magic energy in the creative act in Rick Rubin's book and the podcast that I did with him that's gonna come out in the new year. We talk about that a little bit, but yeah, great, great addition to that list. The problem is, and then I'll turn it over to you. Sorry to keep speaking over you.

It's easy to then get immersed in all of these books and podcasts and say, well, I'm learning about being creative when actually you're just using that as a, like a smoke shield to prevent you from actually doing the thing. I think that's a great point. I mean, personally, I am not one of those writers that really meditates on the practice of the creative

or on the creative process at all. I've never have been, I've been much more, just do it kind of like the consistency, just put in the hours and do it. But from the practical aspect of this, I think you're right in terms of doing some preparation reading on it would be helpful to her cause it would decode it.

And then I also think that, you know, getting into some sort of journaling practice or just a practice would be helpful because you don't have the muscle built up yet and you need to get it, you need to get it working. So having said that, when you're talking about actual practicalities of how does a book come to this world,

in nonfiction, you have the ability to write a book proposal. You don't have to write the whole book. You can write a sample chapter or two, figure out the marketing plan, figure out where this book fits in the marketplace and all of that. You can easily Google book proposals

and find some examples. And that's how, I don't know what the full percentage is, but a vast majority of nonfiction books are sold today is they're sold via agents to publishers in book proposal format. And so you don't actually have to write the whole book to get to create a book. And eventually you do, but you don't have to get it.

Those are two, like, yeah, it's a good distinction to bring up. I guess the question is, what is the purpose of this book? Is it to just write a book and be expressed in that thing that you're trying to wrap your head around? Or is it to be a published author? Like that's a whole different thing because you're bringing commerce into this.

Right, right, right. And so I guess I was just putting that in because it's the only thing I could add that's more a little practice when you're thinking about this. And obviously she is visualizing a book, a product. And there's many ways of like, you can self publish, you can do the book proposal thing.

You can. The book proposal thing is now, it's sort of like how studios are only making superhero movies. Like now publishers are only making books from people with giant Instagram accounts. It's true. It's like a lot of that kind of stuff gets played into it,

but none of that should be an impediment to you creating the book that you wanna create because we're in an era in which those gatekeepers no longer are playing the role that they once did. And there is no impediment to distribution. You can create a self-published book and get it on Amazon and get it out in the world. And perhaps that's the best first way

for you to become an author. Yeah, I love it. We're moving right on to Rich, not Rich Roll, but Rich and Rockfield. Rockford. Oh. Rockford. Rockford. Rich and Rockford. Rockford.

Rich in Rockford. Hello, Rich and Adam. This is Rich Toppy from Rockford, Illinois. I'm 71 years old, so I suspect I skew toward the older range of your listeners. I discovered your podcast about five years ago and enjoy the great interviews and information. Roll On is especially a treat when you share your banter. It's like hanging out with a couple of good friends. I've learned a lot too. I can now say, hey, it's not age slowing me down. I'm just doing a lot of zone two training. My question comes from listening to both of you so effectively share your reading experiences.

from listening to both of you so effectively share your reading experiences. Clearly, you both read volumes of information to be your best as an interviewer and a writer. How do you retain and then retrieve as much as you do? Certainly, you prepare for specific topics and guests, but you often pull thoughts from books you've read long ago and then apply the ideas to a subject that has randomly popped up. I love to read, but wish I could retain much more than I do. Are you just lucky enough to have superlative memories, or are there some skills that you could share to help us all get more from our reading? It's sure okay to use this on the air if you wish. I really appreciate all I've been getting from your program. So all the best from the Midwest.

Thanks a lot. Bye. What do you think, Adam? I just think that he sounds like a swell fella. Sounds like a nice gentleman. I know. It's like the Midwest. His Midwest, you know what I mean?

Like his manners and his laid back. And congenial and convivial. Yes, that's what I think. I don't think I have a great memory. I definitely, I assure you, my memory is anything but superlative. Yes, yes. But you are good and he's right.

You are good at pulling, you know, tidbits of knowledge and things that you remember from either from your past or things that you've read, especially I think in your one-on-one guest stuff. Yeah. It's nice that he has pointed that out. I would not have thought that I was somebody who would stand out in any way for that.

I mean, I think to the extent that that is true and I would challenge just how true it is, it's because this job requires homework. You're always doing homework. And a lot of the guests that I've had on the show are published authors. And I do my very best to read their books in their entirety, or at least as much as I possibly can

before they're on the show. And if they have multiple books to familiarize myself with the canon of their work. And I spend probably eight to 10 hours of prep per guest, irrespective of whether they're an author or not. And I create an outline for each guest. So that forces me to take what I've read and distill it down into interesting kind of bullet points.

I don't write out questions, but I write topic headings. And if it's somebody, if you know, somebody has written like a non-fiction book, I'll kind of go through the structure of that book and extract from that themes and principles that I wanna explore with the guest. And I think the process of not just writing, but then creating the outline,

every little extra step cements the information and the knowledge contained in the book a little bit more deeply. And then I'll review the outline and I'll refine the outline and then I'll make extra notes. So all of those little things, I think really help, you know, anchor whatever I've learned in the memory bank.

And I don't know how long it stays. Like, you know, sometimes I don't remember anything about what we talked about or what that book said. For books that are super meaningful to me, it seems easy for them to remain in my conscious awareness, other books, not so much. And I think it goes to understanding how you learn, everybody learns differently.

Like I know that often I'll consume a book as an audio book. I'll go out on a Saturday morning for a long bike ride and I'll listen to half of an audio book, but hearing it, I don't retain it nearly as well as I do when I read it. Like I'm a visual learner. Is that right? So then I have to go to the printed book

and kind of go through it and make notes. And in the typing and in the looking at my computer or in the pieces of paper, like something about my visual cortex or whatever gets activated that helps me learn better than hearing. I'm sure other people are the other way around. So I think it's a piece of self-understanding

and then developing practices to kind of cement what's important for you to learn. And now there are all of these resources. You could read a book. I know what it's like to read a book kind of casually and then be like, I have no idea. I can't remember anything from that book. But you can go to Blinkist or you can find summaries online

and just doing little refreshers brings a lot of that stuff back. And it's helpful because it's easy to read like a really long book. And you've read so much that you lose the forest for the trees, right? And you kind of need a synopsis or a summary to like remind you, oh, here's what's important.

Here are the primary tiers. And here's the kind of scaffolding upon which to hang all of these interesting ideas and revisiting that, I think with some regularity helps kind of, again, with that long-term memory piece of really anchoring it. And then thinking about it, like how does it apply to your life also in terms of problem solving,

at least in the kind of nonfiction space. It's interesting. I don't think I have great memory or can pull pieces of writing or like, I'm not the guy that toasts, you know, and recite Chaucer. Yeah, but you have friends, they remember quotes from movies and they can like,

they remember everything about what a movie was about that they saw 15 years ago. I'm definitely not that guy. And I do it even, I have a better memory for movies sometimes than books, but there are, and there's times when I'm writing a story and I'm like deep diving into material and I'm reading a lot about it.

And then I write this piece and then as soon as it's done and it's published, if you asked me about it, like three weeks later, I would sound like it wasn't me that wrote it. Like I also have that where it just kind of goes away. I have that with the podcast. People are like, remember when you and so-and-so said that thing and you talked about that thing? I was like, no, I have no memory of that.

Yeah, but I read as much as I ever did, maybe more so. I'm putting books away a lot quicker. I've got, I'm reading fiction and nonfiction simultaneously now. I used to stick with a book and I'd finish it no matter what. And so that would block me from reading more books because sometimes I'd be in a book that's dry

or that I'm not connecting to. And I'm just trying to grind. Just because you started a book doesn't mean you have to finish it. Right, so now I give myself permission to not finish it. And so because of that, I'm not connecting to. Just because you started a book doesn't mean you have to finish it. Right, so now I give myself permission to not finish it. And so because of that, I'm reading more and I'm kind of, I am going back between fiction and nonfiction.

I used to think when I'm writing nonfiction, I'm gonna read fiction. When I'm writing fiction, I'm gonna read nonfiction. And I just don't have those kinds of guardrails at all anymore, they're just excuses. And to be quite honest, there's so much content out there, TV content and like audio content, there's so much of it. I find myself like taking up shelter in books.

You know, like I can't take that. How can you read a book though when White Lotus is back? Well, I'm on White Lotus. I'm on that, but you know what I mean? It's like, and so I'm reading more than ever. And so, and some books do stay with you, right? For long ways. And so often I think if you're saying that I brought it up,

it's probably because I brought, I bring up the same like five books. But I do, I will, one recommendation is Dwight Garner, who is a literary critic at New York Times. We've talked about him on this podcast, I think before. And he has something called Garner's quotations that just came out not too long ago, maybe a year ago. And he is one of those that can pull a quote for anything.

Like he can pull a quote out of left field for any occasion. His own quotes or just quotes of things that other people have said? No, quotes from like luminaries. And then another person, Kelton Reed, who has the writer files, a podcast host, good friend of mine. He does the same thing. He's able to put quotes out there and you'll see it Reed, who has the writer files, a podcast host, good friend of mine, he does the same thing.

He's able to put quotes out there and you'll see it on his Instagram or the writer files. And so they're really good at that. I think I just read as much as I can and hope to retain it, but I don't have any strategies for you. Yeah, so you didn't answer his question at all. I have no strategies.

I can't help you. Keep reading, read more. All right. But I appreciate the question. That's nice. I think he's talking to you. You're good at that. You are good at that. It's nice that you appreciate the question.

Listen, man, you're good at that. You happen to be good at it. Yeah, but it's sort of like, there's a little bit of, you know, like you cram for a test, you know? So you know it all. So I'm like fully dialed when I'm doing the podcast. Like how long does that remain?

Also when you get older, like the hard drive's full, dude. You know, like everything that comes in, something else has like, I'll notice like, I can't quite, like we couldn't remember Brendan Gleason's name, right? Like that's a name that like maybe 10 years ago, I would have had no problem recalling because the hard drive is kind of, it's crammed, right?

It's dusty. Yeah, you gotta like, if I'm taking in some bullshit, I gotta get rid of something else. Right, that's why take in less, read more. I have one for you though, one last thing that we could offer. Cause you know, I know you talk about David Epstein's book range.

I do talk, that's one that- So that kind of fits here because like, I think that we both have wide interests and because of that, we're going to read from wide, you know, range of material. And so it might seem like we're like, we know more, you know, that idea of having a range of interests might feed into this in a way.

Like you have memories from different parts of your kind of personality or you're the dashboard that you're seeing the world through. And so that might help actually kind of being sounding like you have a little bit more handle on things than you really do. It's all about like the illusion of making it seem like I'm better at stuff than I actually am.

Great. This is good. I hope this is revealing. Yeah. Let's get to this last question. Let's land this plane. Yeah. We're going to Zach up in, I don't know, is he in Spokane?

He's in Eastern Washington. Hey, Rich and Adam. My name is Zach Smith. I'm from Eastern Washington. I'm around 27 years old, and I'm a plant-based runner starting to become a dietitian, both things inspired by your podcast. Currently, I am training for the Mesa Marathon, and the good news is with that Zone 2 approach, I am getting faster.

But I'm actually becoming scared of achieving my goal of qualifying for Boston. I feel like I'm getting hooked on getting faster as a runner and losing touch with the broader joy of the sport at only three years into my running journey. So I was hoping to hear you and Adam speak to why we pull ourselves away from family and friends to pursue these efforts and how motivations for these efforts change across time. And if you have any past podcast guests who speak to this that you'd recommend returning to, I'd love to hear them. Thank you for your time. That's cool. Yeah. Thank you for the question, Zach. To the point or to the question of speaking to why we pull ourselves away from family and friends to pursue these efforts and how motivations for these efforts change across time.

I don't know what you're talking about, Zach. I can't. That doesn't happen. I never do that. Right. But I don't know what is animating Zach. Like, I don't know what his motivation is. It sounds like it's germinating

from some kind of performance goal that he has, Like, I don't know what his motivation is. It sounds like it's germinating from some kind of performance goal that he has, qualifying for Boston, et cetera. I think it's interesting that he has enough self-awareness to realize he's getting hooked on the performance aspect of it. And this is draining some of the joy out of the sport at only three years into this journey.

And that self-awareness is powerful to the extent that you channel it into some kind of behavior modification. So I think in your case, there's some easy fixes, understanding that you have this goal, you wanna qualify for Boston, but you're also afraid because you're getting so into the performance piece that it's not as fun as it used to be, or it's not as joyous as when you began. So let's cure that by incorporating

into your training routine some fun runs where you don't have the garment on, you take off the heart rate monitor, you forget about the log or whatever, sort of purpose of the training is that day. And you just go get lost in the woods or you go out with friends and you have a good time. The joy is the sustainable energy that will keep you in the sport, you know, for many years to come. But if you lose touch with that, you will burn out and you may achieve

your goal and all of that, but that goal won't be as joyous or as meaningful as it could be if you're able to find a way to maintain connection with whatever it is about running that provided that sense of joy to begin with. That's a great answer. Cause I know Davey talked about it before going to New York that he wants to take a break from running after New York and April said the same thing.

She had this goal of sub 145 for the half marathon. And she was like the same thing. It's like, I'm ready to stop running for a while. And so interesting. And I'm sure they both were on these training programs and they were on performance kind of base. Your life gets very regimented. Right.

So that's it. I love that idea. Cause you know, the other day I went for, I hadn't been able to get out cause I've been working and just can't run. And I went out for a swim and I forgot my Garmin at home. And it was my most fun swim I've had in so long. At first you're like, you feel naked. You're like, does this even count?

Do I even do it? Right, right. Which is weird. And it's my furthest swim I've done in the ocean since I did the 5K swim a couple of years ago. So it's like, maybe three years ago. So it was great. And so that's a great piece of advice.

I think in terms of pulling yourself away from family and friends, I wouldn't put like, I mean, you're 27, I wouldn't put that guilt on you or maybe you're feeling a little FOMO because you got a lot of young people and friends, I wouldn't put like, I mean, you're 27, I wouldn't put that guilt on you or maybe you're feeling a little FOMO because you got a lot of young people and friends that are like having a lot of fun at night and you have to get some sleep cause you're running early in the morning.

Maybe that's where that's coming from. I personally think that we are called to escape and it's okay. Like I think the beauty of escape is a wonderful thing. I've lived it many times. As a Jew, it's in our nature, but no, but all seriousness, like the idea of dropping out and going for a long travel or getting out in the ocean and forgetting everything

for two hours or going for a long run. I think there's a lot to be said for that. So I wouldn't feel bad about that pulling yourself away. What I do now is kind of take bite-size moments like that if I can, it's the only time I'm not either working or spending time kind of help, you know, with the family and all that we need that, especially Americans and the individualist society

that we are in, I find myself needing that time. And it's the best way for me to take time. That's also fueling my wellbeing, which only helps me work harder and be better with my family. So all that kind of stuff, I don't look at it as pulling myself away. I look at it as needed time to recharge.

And so that's the only thing I would say to the question that I disagree with, but I think your point to like bringing the joy back is really good. Yeah, I, but I think your point to like bringing the joy back is really good. Yeah, I mean, I think rather than framing it as an escape versus being plugged in, think of it as nourishment versus depletion. Like, are you being nourished by these training sessions

or are they depleting you? If you're training for a hardcore goal, you're gonna get depleted. Like you're gonna be pushed and challenged and that's okay. That's part of the whole deal, right? And there's something to be gleaned and learned about yourself from that experience. And this is part of why we sign up to do hard things. But ultimately in the long run, it has to be more nourishing than depleting. And whether that means you take breaks or you find ways to build into whatever it is that you're pursuing that nourishment piece,

be it through community or through a relaxation of the pressure that you're putting on yourself, et cetera, getting immersed in nature or just finding a way to make it fun, gamifying it somehow, that's critical. Even if you might in the micro feel like it's moving you away from the goal that you're seeking because it's not part of the training program, right?

Ultimately it's going to build longevity by creating that deeper kind of emotional connection with this thing. And your motivations for these efforts change, it's gonna change, you're gonna evolve, you're gonna grow, you're gonna have different responsibilities and desires as they come through. It's like we said earlier, the seasonal aspect of living,

that's just the way it is. And so that we embrace that, we embrace that these motivations are going to change, that we're gonna try to find a new way to approach the same thing that's been good for us. And that's the goal. But then if you have to kind of press pause, there's nothing wrong with that either, right?

Like if you need to take, look at it as a season, maybe look at how tennis players take six weeks off at the end of the year or runners take four weeks off. Maybe you need to take a break so that you can come back fresh. There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah, and finally, to kind of round this out, part of the question was whether there's a past podcast guest

who speaks to this. I would suggest my conversation with Brad Stolberg and his book, The Practice of Groundedness. Brad's pretty great on this very subject matter. He's also a great follow on Twitter where he writes, he sort of micro blogs on Twitter and talks a lot about this kind of thing. So I'll check that out. He's great.

I've got him on Instagram now, I believe. There you go. Yeah, yeah. Right. But did you see Kipchoge recommended two books? He recommended, he recommended Atomic Habits by James Clear, friend of the pod. And he recommended Brad Stolberg's

Practice of Groundedness. Oh really? How about that? What a cool, like it's one thing like James Clear sold, I don't know, 10 million books. I mean, that book is crazy, right? But for Brad, like very cool for him. It's very cool.

That the goat is like, read this book. Did he run, did Kachovy run or is he just on the outskirts of the race? Did he run the race? You mean ever? Does he just float above the road? Did he run in New York? In New York? No.

Okay. He did a shakeout run though. I know Davey did. Right, because I knew he was there. So I didn't know if he was running the race or not. No, I don't think he ran the race. Yeah, cool. All right, let's get out of here.

Are we done? Yeah, dude, we're done. I feel still 50. Do you still feel 56? What does that mean? How am I supposed to feel at 56? I don't know, man. All I know is I had a PRP injection.

Have you had one of those? I had that for my back on one occasion. I mean, that hurts like a motherfucker. It's no joke. It's no joke. My eyes were watering for like three hours. I thought I was gonna go back and get some work done. I was literally on the couch trying to read with like eyes watering.

Yeah, pretty funny. Yeah, tales from the fifth decade. All right. Listen, if you have a question you want us to talk about and who knows when we're gonna do a roll on again, but anyway, leave us a message. Wait, are you firing me? No, I don't know when we're doing roll on again.

Wait, is this Twitter? You're not? No. Yes. All hands on deck. You might get fired, but you could get called back into work next week. I'm gonna fire you, but I'm gonna call you.

Yeah, and plead with you to come back. Yeah. Leave us a voicemail at 424-235-4626. I'm gonna fire you, but I'm gonna call you. Yeah, plead with you to come back. Leave us a voicemail at 424-235-4626. And that's it. Any parting thoughts? No, that was, thank you. Thank you for the time today.

Yeah, thank you. Super fun. Let's do it. Should we do it again? Let's do it one more time before the end of the year. What do you think people? Maybe, we'll see. All right, peace. Fuzzbubble!