The Rich Roll Podcast - Sadie Lincoln Is Rewriting The Fitness Story -- Thoughts On Movement, Community, Risk & Vulnerability

Episode Date: February 24, 2020

The alarm goes off and from that moment forward, life is a harried rush. Commuting, coffee, e-mails, meetings and take out. Getting Jenny to soccer practice and Billy back from theatre. When you finally land home, you're too beat to move. So you crash on the couch and doze off with a pint. Rinse and repeat. We all do the best we can. But the pressures of daily life can leave us stressed and exhausted. Sedentary and stiff, our shoulders slump. Our spine rounds and our stance is lopsided. Without corrective action, we can't function properly. And everything we do -- including exercise -- only exacerbates the problem. Let's just say Sadie Lincoln can relate. When her career with a global fitness brand almost broke her, she knew something had to change.  Sadie and her husband Chris quit their jobs and downsized their lives to pursue an idea most said was bat shit crazy. Hence was born barre3, a fitness company focused not on weight loss but rather on body positivity and personal empowerment. What started out as a workout Sadie devised to help restore personal equanimity blossomed into a daily practice embraced by millions that focuses not on weight loss but rather on body positivity and personal empowerment. Since its 2008 inception, barre3 has grown to more than 140 franchise studios powered by female entrepreneurs, plus an online-workout streaming-subscriber base in 98+ countries. Sadie is on Inc. magazine's Female Founders 100 list, has been featured on NPR's How I Built This, and speaks regularly on the topics of mindful leadership, the power of body wisdom and the movement to redefine what success in fitness means. Today she shares her story. If you enjoyed my conversation with WeWork co founder Miguel McKelvey from July 2019 (RRP #452), then you may recall Miguel's untraditional upbringing -- collectively raised by his mom and her small group of friends he called ‘aunties’. Sadie also grew up in that very same communal dynamic community. Although not genetically related, Sadie and Miguel nonetheless consider themselves brother and sister. So, we talk about that. We discuss how Sadie's love of motion, creativity and teaching informs her particular strain of entrepreneurship and activism. We talk about what it means to not just create a business -- but a movement. The importance of serendipity in the world of fitness. And why physical balance also requires spiritual balance. Finally, we explore Sadie's commitment to empowering women. To cultivating their voices. And sharing their stories. But more than anything, this is a conversation about the importance of defining your values. Staying true no matter what. And creating the change you want to see in yourself and the world -- even if it requires risking everything. The visually inclined can watch it all go down on YouTube. And as always, the audio version streams wild and free on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. If you enjoyed my conversation with Kelly McGonigal, you’re going to love Sadie. May you find this conversation as enlightening and transformative as I did. Peace + Plants, Rich

What if we exercised to practice being honest in our bodies? Forget about even like feeling good in our bodies, just honest. And that everything I do in that moment is about honoring who I am in my physical self and what I need in that moment. The more we do that, you build that muscle. And that muscle carries you through so many things in life. It's not okay or normal that most women have body image issues. That's not okay. We just pass that off now. Oh, that's a phase. All women go through that. That's not okay. And we have the power,

business has the power to change that. We can rewrite the story. And we are rewriting it at Bar 3. And so many other beautiful organizations are as well. For me, success is about being authentic to my values and showing up that way as a practice over and over and over again. And you can do that through work. You can do that through a sport. You can do that through anything we do in life. We can embody our values as a practice.

And if I do that, that to me is success. That's Sadie Lincoln, this week on The Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. Oh, hey, how are you guys doing today? Good. Oh, yeah, I heard about that. No, I can't believe. Did he really?

Huh. Well, you know. Uh-huh. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Well, look, you know, uh-huh, yeah. I mean, yeah, well, look, just, I know it's hard, but just, if you can try, look, I get it. I understand. Of course you're anxious.

All that sitting at the office, all the typing, the emails and texts and the Slack channel, the long, boring sales meetings, then hours in the traffic, getting Billy to soccer practice, Jenny to ballet. What do you mean there's nothing to eat? Look, I know you're doing the best you can. The truth is, life just comes fast sometimes. It's going to throw your mind and your body out of balance. So if you're feeling your shoulders slump or your spine feels rounded, if your stance is lopsided, you, my friends, are not alone. But here's the thing, you got to do something about it. You got to take some corrective action

because when our bodies are jacked up like this, they just can't function properly and everything we do, including exercise, only exacerbates the problem. Rich Roll here on the case with a podcast, the problem. Rich Roll here on the case with a podcast, a podcast to restore that balance. Enter Sadie Lincoln. And let's just say she can relate. When her powerhouse career with a global fitness brand almost broke her, when her passion for wellness made her unwell and her path no longer aligned with who she was and how she wanted to contribute to the world, Sadie decided to do something about it. Sadie and her husband quit their jobs. They sold their home and they moved from the Bay Area to Portland, all in the name of pursuing a dream that most people said was just batshit crazy. Hence was born Bar 3, a whole health movement

studio, a community, and a fitness company focused on teaching people to be balanced in body and empowered from within. And since Bar3's 2008 inception, it's grown to more than 140 franchise studios

powered by female entrepreneurs, plus an online workout streaming subscriber base in 98 plus countries. So basically what I'm saying is what started out as a workout that Sadie devised to essentially help restore her own personal equanimity to her own life has now blossomed into a full-blown movement made up of millions of people focused on body positivity, being empowered, and redefining what success in fitness means.

Sadie is on Inc.'s Female Founders 100 list. She's been featured on NPR's How I Built This, and she speaks regularly on the topics of mindful leadership, the power of body wisdom, and the movement to redefine what success in fitness means. Today, this self-described mompreneur shares her story and I promise you're gonna love it. But first. We're brought to you today by recovery.com.

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go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. Okay, Sadie. So as an interesting aside, remember my conversation with WeWork co-founder Miguel McKelvey a while back? That was episode 452 from July of 2019.

If you do, you will recall how Miguel grew up in this very unique alternative communesque group family dynamic raised by his mom and her small group of friends that he called aunties. Well, here's the thing. Sadie, amazingly, also grew up in that very same community. And although they're not genetically related, Sadie and Miguel consider themselves brother and sister. So today we talk about that. We discuss how her love of movement and creativity and teaching informs her parenting, her entrepreneurism, and her activism. We talk about what it means to not just create a business, but a movement. We discuss the importance of serendipity in the world of fitness, why physical balance also

requires spiritual balance. And we discuss her commitment to empowering women to cultivate and share their voices. But more than anything, I think this is a conversation about the importance of being very clear, of defining your values and then staying true to them no matter what. And then creating the change that you want to see both in yourself and in the world, even if it means you have to risk everything. This was quite an enlightening conversation for me, and I hope it is for you as well. If you dug my conversation with Kelly McGonigal, then I promise you, you are going to love Sadie. So here she is. Well, delighted to have you here. Thank you for making the time to talk to me. My pleasure. I'm excited about it. Miguel was like, you got to get Sadie on.

I know. What a good big brother. A little brother. He's so big. I always call him a big brother, but he is my little brother. Right. He's not your blood brother, but you guys grew up together, which we're going to talk about, which is a very cool and unusual upbringing. I think what's interesting about that, and we'll dive into it a little bit more, is that both of you created these massively successful businesses that are really driven by the core values that you grew up with and are all about belonging and community and connection. You're doing it in different ways, but it's sort of like they're an extension of what

you learned as kids growing up in that community. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, why don't we start with, I wanna start with talking about the conventional conversation around fitness versus the conversation that you're having.

Mm-hmm, yeah. Yeah, conventional versus the conversation we're having. Just to step back, I didn't use the word fitness. My husband and I co-founded Bar 3 in 2008 is when we opened. I've been in the fitness industry my entire professional career. I fell in love with it in the 80s, like meeting Jane Fonda in my living room with my mom. like meeting Jane Fonda in my living room with my mom. It just drew me in right away for various reasons. And when we opened Bar 3, we didn't use the word fitness because I had it anchored to negativity and being a chore and something that I didn't identify with. And it wasn't until about eight years ago or eight years in that we took back that word fitness and we're redefining it. So what is that redefinition? And first of

all, I want to point out there's nothing wrong with fitness as we all know it. It's just my relationship to fitness is broken. And so I needed to redefine it. And I noticed that a lot of other people do as well. Well, why don't we start with how it got broken in your own personal experience? Sure. My story, I think I fell in love with fitness because to me, it was an answer to be badass and to show up successful, worthy, attractive, winning. And I love the feeling of exercising in a group. So group exercise always drew me to the table. The fact that I liked it and it would make me better was really exciting. I'm a high performer, hardwired. Clearly.

Clearly. Yeah. And so that really drew me in and ended up teaching by the time I was 19 years old. I went to City College in Santa Monica City. I grew up in Eugene, Oregon. I went to City College, found my way to UCLA, started teaching there, fell in love with it there. And LA is so body conscious. I felt it was very body conscious, and I was not happy in my body it there. And LA is so body conscious. I felt it was very body conscious and I was not happy in my body and very disassociated with my body. And fitness was my answer to get back in my

body and shape up so that I would belong and have friends and be seen and be worthy. That's really what the inner driver was for me, if I'm to be completely honest. I ended up running the instructor training program there, went to grad school, did fitness there at William & Mary, and then landed a job with 24 Hour Fitness right out of grad school and worked there for 10 years and was at the center of a very successful fitness company. Let's just pause there for a moment. of a very successful fitness company. Let's just pause there for a moment.

You get your master's in education from William & Mary. First of all, you moved to LA kind of on a lark, right? Was the idea you were going to go to Hollywood? Or what was the initial impetus in moving to Los Angeles, like right out of high school? The big one was to get to know my dad for the first time. He lived there and he didn't raise me. I've never called him dad.

He passed away years ago, but that was a big one. So I moved in with him and as an 18-year-old got to know him. Right. And I was also drawn in by, I thought I wanted to be an, and then I enrolled in my first acting class and did not like the actual acting part. I think I just wanted to reinvent myself. Right. So, well, this is the land of that, right?

Yeah. You came to the right place for that. But then you sort of find your way to the fitness world at some point, and you also fall in love with learning in a different way that was distinct from your high school experience, from what I understand. Yes. You did your research. I always do. I love it. I know you do. I really appreciate that. Yeah. So first of all, I went to alternative

schools in my primary years and art focused, lacked the basics, unless you were innately driven towards math and grammar and linear. A lot of pottery, right? Yeah. I was drawn to the arts. And so the school allowed me to do whatever I wanted to do. Got to middle school, didn't have the basics. And on top of it, I had low self-esteem around my ability to achieve in the academic world, in this linear world. And then got to high school and survived just on social acumen and having fun, sitting in the back of the class, acting like I didn't care, even though I did. I just didn't want to try because I had such a fear of failing. Right.

And how much of that was a reaction to the alternative kind of lifestyle that you were living at home in this community of women and siblings? My mom and her best friends raised us collectively, basically. And they are all single moms and they raised us kids collectively. And to their credit, which I think is a beautiful thing, is we as a family celebrated mediocrity. Like you did not need external measures of success to belong in our family.

That was just sort of nice, but that's not what matters. What's going on inside? What was your dream last night? How are you feeling? What's your on inside? What was your dream last night? How are you feeling? What's your gut instinct? I was always validated for my inner world, and the outer experience was not measured. That was our practice at home.

Right. Then you go into the real world. You step into school, and it's all about external measures. That's why I think I was drawn to fitness, because I excelled there. My exterior was accepted. And I was like, well, if that's my worth, then I'm going to make it even better. So I belong. I'm seen. I have a connection with other people. Right. But you didn't play sports in high school. Not a single sport ever. Right. Cheerleader. Kind of, but I have to say, and I love if any of the gals on my cheerleading team are listening to this, I love you all so much. And I do believe you're inner athletes.

But in the 80s at South Eugene High School, it was not a sport to cheer. Okay. But there is something kind of beautifully poetic and hilarious about the fact that Miguel becomes becomes this, you know, amazing basketball player and you're a cheerleader. Oh, we're so different. Oh, I know because it's so like Americana. Right, right. There is a reactionary aspect to that, I imagine. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I used to joke that we were playing normal. Right. You know, we would go to school and play normal and then go home to our alternative, who we really were. And your mom and your aunties are still all together, right? Yeah, it's greatest love story ever. That's amazing. It's the greatest love story ever. They still in Eugene?

Yes, most of them. Yeah, they're dear, dear. They are my auntie mothers. I mean, I don't really have a title for them because they're not really my aunts. They're not really my mothers. But with every cell, they are. I mean, I feel them just as much as my birth mother. Yeah.

It's interesting that we reflect on that as being kind of off kilter, when in reality, it's much more natural than the way we live now. And I feel like we're experiencing this epidemic of loneliness and depression and all these anxiety-related disorders, and they're rooted in our lack of connection and our lost sense of community, that upbringing kind of perfectly, you know, encapsulated and prioritized. That's precisely what I've been ruminating about lately, is that it is so intuitive to sit shoulder to shoulder with women around a fire. Think about that. Humans, doesn't matter who you identify with.

It is in us as human beings, to be in village, to be around a circle, to be seen and heard, and to have a role that was important. And what was once very intuitive for all of us, it is still intuitive for all of us. And now it needs to be intentional. Yeah, you have to go on a retreat. Yes. Like you just did. Yes.

Yeah. Which was so, no pun intended, but full circle. I was the oldest woman there. I'm 47. They were mostly younger women. And they were going through this investigation of dropping out in their own way, like my mom did in the 60s. And to get back in their bodies, to own their power, to be connected again and not disassociated with their femininity. And it was so special for me to see them sitting in circle just like my mom did in the 60s and reinvent themselves. And me too, I was fully participating, but from a different, I think a different point of view because I grew up so differently than everyone. from a different, I think a different point of view, because I grew up so differently than everyone.

It's interesting how these things go in cycles. Like there was the summer of love and everything that that birthed, and then that kind of went away and we're seeing a new wave of that happening now. Yes. And I think it's a reflection of kind of, you know, what we're missing. There's something innately human. Our intuition is saying like, I need more of this and I'm going to intentionally seek it out. Yeah. How many times have you gone to a dinner party, for example, longing for community and connection, breaking bread with people and leaving, feeling depleted, disconnected, even more lonely? And for me, the dinner parties exist. The social things exist. I'm around people all the time, but leaning into intention of really connecting deeply, setting the phone down, asking a real question, listening intently, all those things, we practice

being distracted all the time. And we're really good at that. And my big aha is that we need to practice active listening, connecting, sitting shoulder to shoulder, really seeing and hearing each other to get back to that belonging we all have and that longing to be connected. Yeah. I think it's sort of intuitive in the feminine to yearn for that and to reach out and take action on that. I think it's more difficult for men, although just as much needed. I think it's harder for guys to say,

I'm gonna go on a retreat with a bunch of men and we're gonna talk about our feelings. But I think that that's something that, I mean, I love to do and have done. And I think embracing that feminine aspect of being male is something that we're missing and need more of. We all have feminine energy and we all have masculine energy. I have arguably more masculine energy than my husband.

I show up all the time on stages. That's very masculine. I'm very out there in the world that way. We all have both. And in my experience, in fact, this just happened. I presented at the How I Built This Summit, and I did something out of my comfort zone, but I just knew it was going to work. I had about 100 people in the audience, and I did a session on leadership circle, which is how I've taken this idea of connection into a business environment and with a little

vulnerability. And most of the audience were men. And because I couldn't hold circle with a hundred people, I did a fishbowl circle. And I had no idea if people were going to bite, but at the very end I said, okay, so I'd like to have some volunteers to join me on stage. And we're going, everyone's going to listen. So we'll all be part of circle, but six of you are going to share this question. And I gave them a juicy question. And the men's hands shot up. They got up on the stage.

I did 50-50, 50% those who identify as male and female. And vulnerability was equal and beautiful and awesome and authentic. It wasn't that everybody used their own language. And in my experience, when you invite it, men show up all the time. Yeah. You got to give them permission. Yeah. And did you open that by leading with your own vulnerable story?

Yeah. To kind of set the stage and provide that permission. The whole part of my first part of the presentation was really holding the space and speaking. And I think this is where one of my unique genius is that because I played normal so well, I do get normal. Like, I don't talk woo-woo. I'm very practical. Except for the crystal you just put down on the table. I know, but it's sneaky crystal.

Yeah, I know. No, go ahead. You didn't know I had it until I saw your other crystal friends and I wanted to hang out in the crystal circle over there. Yeah, I think that it isn't woo-woo, and I did lead with that. It's intuitive. We're human beings. We all long for it. And I ask questions. Have you been around the boardroom and been frustrated that your voice wasn't heard or self-aware that other people weren't being heard and seen? Are you lonely at work? Even if you own your own business.

I know. Besides that, you're in Los Angeles when I first moved there. When my company was at the center of the most successful it's been and it seemed like we were just booming on the outside and doing so well, I was the most lonely I've ever been in the center of my own company. And I think loneliness is an epidemic in the work environment. So as soon as I invited those questions, it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you add the measures of success around it. When I had the aha that I needed to bring this circle into the work environment, that's when things opened up. That's when innovation happened. That's when debate happened. That's when things opened up. That's when innovation happened. That's when debate happened.

That's when trust and workplace awesomeness came alive in my organization. But you had to get to a place where you were open enough and willing to be on the receiving end of difficult news. Yes. Yes. Really difficult. About two years ago, I was taken down to my knees. To start out, we've always done a good job at Bar 3 with training instructors and our franchisees in a really open kind of circle way. We actually sit in circle for every instructor training and

we have instructors come in from all over the nation and the world now. And the first thing we say in circle is you are all as much of a teacher as I am if I'm leading the training. We're the anti-guru model. And your wisdom and life experience is going to inform this training and move us forward without knowing one thing about teaching yet. And we go around and I ask everyone to share, what are you bringing to this experience? What wisdom are you bringing? And people will share, I was a division one athlete. I was injured. And that my whole identity around being physical was taken down and I anchored fitness to shame. And then I found bar three and I figured out how to be empowered in my body. And I want to give that back. I'm a mom. You hear

all these stories. And right from that beginning, they. I'm a mom. You hear all these stories. And right from that beginning, they're like, I'm part of this. I matter. We did that so well with our product. Then behind the scenes, I was trying to follow the model. Like, OK, we have got a boardroom table now. And we've got an executive team. And we've got accountants and financial people and marketers.

And I neglected that team. I didn't put that same intention into our headquarters. Right. And for a while there it worked because it was the first group of phenomenal women that helped us kind of run this, move this forward. Then I brought in other team members. And as things happen, there's a lot of toxicity in the company and a shakeup. And I was so identified with being a beloved leader and that my worth is attached to being successful. Right.

External measures. Right. Ironically. Even though my product is all about going inside and being empowered from within. Like my whole identity unconsciously was about this thing. Felt the uncertainty in the office. So we sent out a, I literally Googled, healing survey, anonymous healing survey. Help me. And then 10 o'clock at night with tears streaming down my face, shit was going down at bar three. And so we sent out an anonymous healing survey

about how everyone was doing. And the results came back, and there were stinging comments about me personally. As a leader, it's still triggering. As a person. So I got... Yeah, how did that feel? It was earth shattering. Like, it was my shake up moment. Now, two years later, greatest gift.

Because I had a circle of support. And at first I was like, that's not fair. How could they? They suck. And then I was like, I'm going to sell this damn company. Can I swear? Yeah, of course. I'm sure you could have gotten that kind of feedback from a bunch of friends too, who would tell you, oh, you're right. And they're wrong and all of that. Right. So when you say circle of influence, what does that mean? These people didn't do that. That's why they are

good. I have this group from it's's Entrepreneur Organization. It's a global organization. And I sit in a forum circle once a month with other founders. We're all founders of the company. Like a YPO kind of thing? Yeah. And we're trained on, it's very much like I grew up, is just all communication and no advice giving and reflecting back, experience sharing. I texted them. I had the wherewithal to know to text them. I couldn't leave my house. I was ready to just bail. They showed up with tater tots, my favorite food, and sat around the kitchen table with me, held my hand, and just listened and saw me. And one woman, Sue, does research for a living. And she said,

well, let's look at it. Let's not push it away. Let's really look at it. So she helped me process it from a data perspective and helped me get the emotion out. My other friend, Pat, said, in my experience, when I got feedback like that, I owned it. And just being honest about owning that feedback is where I learned and grew. The combination of those two factors changed me. I then took a minute and I stepped back and I looked at the data. I took out the things that were not productive,

the stinging comments that weren't real. Like people don't like your haircut or whatever. Yeah, like that stuff. And then really investigated the real things that were hard for me to see. And I realized I can't fire myself. We're sole owners. We don't have board of directors. We don't have anyone.

No one can fire me. It's my job to do the work and to show up for my team. So I sat on the hot seat and invited anyone else, but I was the only one that did it. I sat on the hot seat in front of the company and shared my whole company and shared the results. And I put together an action plan with measurable KPIs and how I as a leader was going to improve in the next four months. Once a month we got together, let's look at this again. Let's look at this again. The productive things. And through that whole thing, I gave everybody permission to fail. We weren't striving for perfection anymore.

Letting go of that perfectionist mentality. I mean, it's a fascinating inflection point because you have this choice. Because you can't be fired, you're either going to take the autocratic route and just clamp down and it's my way or the highway, or you're going to go the vulnerable route and say, okay, let's heal this. Let's solve this. Help me help myself so I can help you. And I would imagine just the doing of that, like the reading of the feedback in. And I would imagine just the doing of that, like the reading of the feedback in front of everybody would have shifted the tide

and engendered a level of trust and empathy going forward. I think it was triggering for some people. There was some exits after that. You're like, this is anonymous. And then now you're getting up and you're reading them all. But nobody knew where it came from. Nobody's name, of course. And we made it so it was really safe, that part. We didn't do actual

feedback sentences, for example, word clouds and that kind of thing. So it wasn't. And I think that there were other leaders in the company. All of us own the toxicity in the company. It's a shared responsibility. And all I can do is own my own shit. And the other thing I invited is please be compassionate. I need your compassion. I need to stumble too. And I know that women who are in power now are overly celebrated in a way. And believe me, the only reason I kept the title CEO is because I want to hold that. But because there is so much emphasis on women coming into power that way, into corporate America and having big roles were higher on the pedestal and further to fall. Yeah. And probably more under a microscope. And then you add fitness on top of it and the exterior pressures of fitness. Well, if I could say two things, I mean, the first thing is like, no matter what I take away from

that is a lot, but one of the things is, no matter how successful you are, you have to remain teachable, right? You have to set aside your ego and remain open, which I imagine you become more calcified the more you kind of rise up that chain. And then the second thing being, I just lost my train of thought on that. What was it? I forget. Keep going. One thing for me is redefining what success means. Success is not about getting there. We know that. I think we all know that. It's about, for me, success is about being authentic to my values and showing up that way as a practice over and over and over again. And you can do that through work. You can do that through a sport. You can do that through anything we do in life.

We can embody our values as a practice. And if I do that, that to me is success. And not becoming the CEO, not having hundreds of studios, that's not success. It's how I'm practiced dealing with, how I'm resilient, how I love learning, how I have curiosity, how I build confidence, how I have strength. And are you living in alignment with those core values that you established this to begin with? I mean, I just remember my second thought, which has to do with that kind of lionization of the CEO and perhaps particularly the female CEO. And I think that's great. And it's amazing that we are celebrating these

empowered women in that way. But I think along with that, my observation is that there's a mythologizing that happens. And that puts pressure on that individual to live up to a certain standard of behavior and operating practice. I think I read somewhere where you were asked, what's your morning routine? And you feel like you have to answer it in the way that they're expecting you to answer it. And you're not allowed to answer it honestly. And that's a divergence between expectation and authenticity. So as somebody who's so deeply intuitive and whose business is really birthed out of that

intuition, when you depart from that and create dissonance, there's a fracture there that ultimately leads to these inflection points that are either going to break you or you're going to return to that voice. And that isn't just in business, that's in everything. And I do think that we embody that. That's where injury comes. That's where illness comes. When we are disassociated with our values and not in alignment with them, our bodies react. And if you look at fitness as an analogy, I just over and over again, what we teach in our room at Bar 3 is such an analogy of life. There's 60 minutes of moving together as a group and aligning our body with intention, foundation, lining the body up,

getting into posture in a way that with integrity. But the real work is looking inside and figuring out what do I need right now? And then honoring that and moving in a way and taking shape in your body in a way that's right for what you need. When you're in a group, the expectation is that you're looking outside yourself and you're copying what everybody else is doing on top of these conditions that full plank on the floor is harder. So it's better. And it's going to get me where I need to be. So I need to do full plank. But if you're doing full plank and you have like burning wrist pain, maybe plank is better at the ballet bar. And if you stand up at the ballet bar and everybody's on the floor, that's literally and figuratively a practice of standing up for yourself and honoring what your body needs and honoring your values. Like body wisdom, taking care of my body and not

disassociating with it and trying to fight through it. And that's what I think the real work is, is practicing that over and over and over again. I think I also read that you opened the class by saying, we're going to take you through this hour-long experience, and I'm going to say a lot of things, or the instructor's going to say a lot of things, but the most important thing is that you listen to yourself. You kind of set that tone that provides that kernel of empowerment for the individual. Because we need to practice that. We all know that. We all know when we sit quietly, there's those moments you know your inner self, your inner knowing is important. And that when you're aligned with your inner knowing, things work out. Yeah.

Because you start to make choices that are in alignment with that inner knowing. But that just gets so quieted. Life writes on us and it pushes that voice down, down, down, down. So it gets softer and softer and softer and softer and softer. And I was just talking to my mom about this on the drive over that she's like, yeah, I'm still working on that. We're still working on it. It's such a practice to listen. And what I love is intersecting. My mom was intellectual. They were so intellectual. They studied Carl Jung. And so their entry point for self-awareness was dream analysis. It was still sitting in a circle talking about dreams. Where I get that is in movement, actually using my body to understand that, that my inner self can show up in different ways physically. And I think that's so important,

back to the metaphor, is that when we show up at a presentation, when we show up for an interview, when we show up for the race, whatever it is, if we can show up with that authenticity, then you're literally teaching everybody else to do the same thing. And it's not a place that you arrive at. It is a practice, just like fitness is a practice. And we were talking in the kitchen beforehand and you were tasting Julie's cheeses. She was sharing a little bit about her business and you were saying, yeah, and it's here, but this is a practice. Like this is the beginning, but this is a practice that has no destination. This is a practice. This is the beginning, but this is a practice that has no destination.

Yeah. The cheese is on the table. She did it. It's amazing, by the way. But it's arrived. She just launched it, but it's not done. It's just going to keep going and going. Business is a practice.

Life is a practice. I also like interchanging the word practice with exercise. Explain that. We exercise our right to do things. We exercise justice. We exercise our ability to nurture, to mother. We exercise all kinds of things, including our bodies. And again, that intersection, I think, is important to remember. When you're exercising, you're exercising something else.

And you're not just exercising your muscles, joint mobility, posture, connection, endurance. You're not just exercising that. You're exercising so much more. And that is when we do all three of those things, I think of it as physical exercise, connectedness, mental exercise connectedness. And the third that's really important is social connectedness, exercising social connectedness. Hence the three in bar three. There's so many good threes.

Yeah. Three's good, right? So many good threes. Yeah. My favorite number. All right. So you move to Los Angeles. You fall in love with not only learning, but group exercise. You end up going to UCLA.

You graduate from UCLA. You go to William & Mary. You get a master's degree. And then you get this job at 24 Hour Fitness, which is in the dream city that you wanted to move to, San Francisco. So walk me through the experience of kind of joining that organization and what you learned and how that kind of created the foundation for what you later created. Yeah. And just to close the loop on the academic story, I went to City College right out of high school. I didn't even take the

SATs. I was not the most likely to succeed. Yeah. So you went to, did you go to Santa Monica College? Santa Monica City. Can you get into that without an SAT or did you have to take that at some point? Oh, it was so easy and so inexpensive and it was great. I was great and it was hard because there wasn't social connectedness there for me because there wasn't dorms, right? It's very dispersed. Yeah. So that was, I was really lonely, but I did have some beautiful teachers there who sparked a love of learning for me. And that really reminded me that, ah, I have this curiosity and curiosity matters. And then the grades come. Right. Then I got into UCLA. So to close that loop. That's an important story because I think

kids these days are, it's so, my kid, we both have teens. My kids are so pressured to close that loop. That's an important story because I think kids these days are, it's so, my kid, we both have teens. My kids are so pressured to get that A plus, A plus, plus, plus, and do all these things to get into the college and to make it. And there's so many ways. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So many ways. That's a whole other podcast we could do. Yeah, exactly. So San Francisco, I landed a job with 24 Hour Fitness and thought I'd be there maybe for two years. It was an exciting job right out of grad school. I ran all the group exercise programming for, I think, around 20 gyms. It's an incredible first job. Yeah. It really is. Other than teaching fitness classes, it was really your first job, right?

Yeah. Really, really remarkable. I was 25 years old. And the founder- It's not like you didn't get your master's in business. You were an educator. How did you even get this job? Well, I did do fitness as my... I ran the fitness instructor training program at UCLA and I did the same thing at William & Mary. So I thought I was going to run college rec program fitness. So I think that really helped. And I really love teaching. I still shine. I love teaching class. You still teach classes at your organization? Yeah. Oh, I love teaching. Yeah. Love being a student. Love teaching.

So landed that job and it was quite the ride. I ended up working for the founder and CEO. He's since left, Mark Mastrov, for many of those years. And he's such an entrepreneurial spirit. And it was really exciting working with him. So I really learned the business. Yeah. Like how many gyms did they have when you started? And then how many when you left?

I believe around 20. And then when I left, I know it was 430 globally. Wow. Yeah. And you were involved in that expansion, I know it was 430 globally. Wow. Yeah. And you were involved in that expansion, right? Traveling to all these crazy places. All over the world. Right.

And I also helped Mark with some of his other portfolio not associated with 24 Hour Fitness. So I just met so many interesting people all over the world exploring fitness and fitness as a business. many interesting people all over the world exploring fitness and fitness as a business. And woe was it ever successful and lucrative and an exciting, big, booming industry. Right. Basically, you're going to business school to learn everything you need to know to ultimately launch Bar 3. But this gets back to inflection points. This is another big inflection point because you could have stayed there longer and continued to thrive in that environment but something was leading you in a different direction.

A, I wasn't thriving in that environment. Thriving financially. I was thriving financially, yeah. Chris and I finally made enough money to buy the house and we had two kids. And Chris, you met and then recruited him into- Mark did. I mean, he has a way of doing that. We had one lunch and suddenly my husband was working with me. Right. So I'm sure you get a lot of questions about what it's like to work with your husband, but you've never known different. It's been our dance the whole way. Yeah, it's been really, really worked well for us. Yeah, all the things.

Like on the exterior, it was awesome. And I had this really interesting opportunity to potentially go run yoga studios, which I love yoga, and do all these interesting things. And I just wasn't happy in my own body during that era. And I was not identifying with fitness, the product that we were selling. And I had a lot of shame around it. Explain that. I'm sitting in meetings with all these people learning about these crazy numbers and the crazy growth of our company.

I'm also learning from all these people learning about these crazy numbers and the crazy growth of our company. I'm also learning from all these amazing consulting firms and the statistics and data that our health is on the decline. So as the industry is booming, our health is declining significantly. And so that's confusing. I'm always like, huh, why aren't we getting better? Obesity, diabetes rates are going through the roof. When fitness as a product and service was invented in my mind, huh, why aren't we getting better? Obesity, diabetes rates are going through the roof. When fitness as a product and service was invented in my mind, 1980.

Obesity has doubled since 1980. And yet the health club industry has grown even more than that. Upper right corner, year over year. It's a $30 billion industry to this day. What is not working here? Fitness is working. Fitness, when you study it in a lab,

you've studied it in your body. I have too. It works. Fitness is not broken. Fitness is good. What I have discovered is that our relationship to fitness is broken. And there is so much shame in that relationship. How predominantly to this day fitness is sold is that you start in the before picture, and then you do the products and services in a certain order, and you become the after picture.

That's how it's sold. Let's look at that for a second, the before and after. If you think about an after that's in the future, it's imagined. It's not real. There's nothing real about the after picture. And literally, when you see a before and after picture, which still is prolific and that's what sells, it's someone else and how they've achieved a physical measure of success. Sometimes there's a diarrhea behind it that's like how I feel as well, but it's often a physical manifestation. So we can't ever get to that person. And by the way, that person's not that person anymore either. There is no presence in the before and after picture. There is no presence in that. And there's a shame in that. When I became part of the fitness industry and started Bar 3 with this awareness,

our central core value is committed to real. And I fell into that trap. I ended up signing a book deal that I signed my rights away with imagery. They Photoshopped me almost beyond recognition. And they sold that picture, which is a ridiculous picture of myself. Ridiculous. They took away my veins on my hands, my wrinkles on my hands. That was the most, for me, the most disturbing part. Because when I look at my hands, my wrinkles on my hands. That was the most, for me, the most disturbing part. Because when I look at my hands, I see my grandmother double-jointed smoking her Benson and Hedges. I feel like my grandma when I see my hands. I see my mother in my hands. They took away my laugh lines. They gave me breasts. They gave me green eyes instead of blue. They turned my hair

more golden. And they did this ad that was like, what if I told you you could get a lifted butt and thin thighs and all these things without barely moving a muscle? I mean, it was the most ridiculous thing. This was in the phase of bar three growth. And you kind of, the anti-guru suddenly finding yourself in the position of becoming the new guru because there were people invested in blowing you up and making you a thing. And that after look, you know, because it literally was a before and after, because they Photoshopped me. It's like the after, right? Imagine, not real. I think we all know that now.

We've come a long way. Like the Photoshopping, we know that. It's more disturbing now because social media, it's the girl next door. It's not the guru anymore with 100 takes and maybe some filters. So now it's even more confusing because it's quote unquote real, but not really. And the message is confusing. But in that moment, I realized, well, you can't see what's going on in the inside. On the inside, I had chronic low back pain. I was depressed. I wasn't present with my young children. And I was witness to myself

being manipulated to look younger to sell and whatever, to look something else other than I am. So fitness has been sold and you are not whole yet. If you do these things, you'll be better. And every year there's a new idea and a new fad and a new product and a new supplement. And on top of it, there's this extreme nature of fitness. The more extreme you go, the better results you'll get. So I always think of like there's comfort zone where you're in the center in your comfort. Then there's brave space where you go just outside of that comfort. And that's where in the body, like you're lifting weights, let's say, and your body

goes to fatigue and failure. And then it rebuilds. That's brave space. You're rebuilding your muscle. Same with our mental capacity. Just going just enough so that you're rebuilding, building resilience, building strength. And we do need that sand and the oyster that make the pearl. We need that rub in our bodies physically. But the industry goes so extreme that we go into panic zone. So many people enter exercise and they go too hard. They get injured. They anchor it to pain,

and they go too hard, they get injured, they anchor it to pain, to shame, to not looking the part. And then we get promised in one sweat sesh, you're going to be skinny and beautiful and perfect and awesome, right? So there's just so many ridiculous... When we all talk about this, we're always like, that's so ridiculous. I know better. I know better. But the world says that all the time. Right. Intellectually, we know better, but emotionally, we don't, right? And it plays into that thing of, I want to belong. If I look that way, I'll be attractive. Yeah. I'll be successful. I'll be seen as successful. Happy.

I'll be worthy. I'll be happy. I'll belong. And would if, this is a question we all ask ourselves all the time, would if we exercised to practice being honest in our bodies? Forget about even feeling good in our bodies, just honest. And that everything I do in that moment is about honoring who I am in my physical self and what I need in that moment. And the more we do that, you build that muscle. And that muscle carries you through so many things in life. Yeah, but I want the before and after picture. You know what I mean? That's a harder sell. It's an ephemeral. It's a much more I mean, when you think about the word fitness in and of itself is strange because part of it is it's aspirational, but it's also this pejorative. You think of fitness and you think about a treadmill underneath a fluorescent light.

Yeah, and anchored in that. And you think about a bunch of people walking around that look better than you and you're feeling less than. and you're feeling less than. That whole industry is built upon preying on people's insecurities to get you to join and then not actually attend so they can oversubscribe. Spot on. Yeah. And that's broken and not healthy, obviously.

And it works. It makes money. Of course. So it's legacy-based. And I think that's why my way is working too. Right. And we're working our way up to that. Yeah.

Like how you've kind of flipped this. And not only me. There's a movement now of changing that story. And that is what drives me. That's why we're growing. We have plenty and enough. We have a house. We have kids.

They're in good schools. I can travel. I have enough. But the drive in me We have kids. They're in good schools. I can travel. I have enough. But the drive in me is to extend this movement. Because I think the more of us that start exercising this way, the greater our opportunity is to change those external forces, to change those messages. It's not okay or normal that most women have body image issues. That's not okay. Like, we just pass that off now.

Oh, that's a phase. All women go through that. That's not okay. Yeah, it's outrageous, actually. It's not okay. And we have the power, business has the power to change that. We can rewrite the story. And we are rewriting it at Bar 3 and so many other beautiful organizations are as well. And I love showing the business community that

we're profitable and we're growing and people are choosing us because we have a different story. And that they are getting what they need out of it and coming back and then starting their own concepts, right? So I do, that's what drives me at this point. It is changing. You probably saw the New York Times article about Mary Kane last week, who was the, she was this, she was arguably like the next biggest thing in track and field. Oh, the Nike? Yes, yes, yes.

Yeah, the Nike athlete. And they made this amazing like mini doc and article about this. Lindsey Krauss wrote it for the New York Times. And it really went crazy viral, and it created a conversation around these issues. So you see it at the elitist level of sport. I mean, we're talking more about the average person, the average woman, the barriers to entry into the fitness community. Which is most of us. Yeah, exactly.

But you need those, whether it's Amelia Boone, who's been on the show talking about her eating disorders. Yeah, or Mary Kane and Lindsey Krauss writing about these things at the New York Times that are creating these conversations that I think are going to tip culture and reframe this conversation and get us into a healthier place with all of this. So powerful. It's so healing for all of us. And I think that one thing we do all share is we want to perform well in life and in sport and in our bodies.

We all want that. And we want to be able to sustain it. Yeah, yeah, just like business. So if we grow a sustainable business, we'll be around for a long time. If I did hockey stick growth and sold per taps, we wouldn't have done so well in the long run. So it's kind of the same idea. So you're at 24-Hour Fitness for a little over a decade. Was there a moment where you're like, I can't do this anymore?

How did you come to the realization that you needed to blaze a new path? The first moment was when I became pregnant and I got back inside my body and to my roots, how I was raised and realized that, you know, you can't think a baby to grow. My body just did it. And that my body has so much power and wisdom on its own. And I started to practice yoga at home and started to move in a way that was super freeing and so enriching and rewarding. And then I'd go into even a yoga studio and I didn't have that same freedom. So that was my moment where I'm like, maybe I'm not broken.

Maybe the fitness industry is broken. Maybe more people have this shame. It's not just because I'm in the center of fitness and I'm the face of fitness that I have the shame. We all kind of have this, right? So that was like baby step number one for me. And that's what drove me into yoga and really loving my heart is the philosophy of yoga. And then's what drove me into yoga and really loving my, my kind of my heart is the philosophy of yoga. And then my husband and I made it, we had the house by then we had two kids

and my husband was really the catalyst. Uh, he came to me one day with a spreadsheet explaining how we could sell our house in the Bay area Hills. And with put all our money, we were house poor, into that house. For anyone who lives in the Bay Area knows, it's like a major feat to buy a house. And so that's all we did. We worked to buy the house. We got the house. And then he's like, let's sell the house.

This was like 10 years ago? How long ago was this? This was now 12 years ago. Let's sell the house. And with that chunk of change, let's move to Bend, Oregon and drop out and not work for a full year and not travel or anything. Just be home and simple with our children and experience our connection and our lives together.

experience our connection and our lives together. And it still chokes me up because in that moment, I realized so clearly that that's how I was raised. That's how I came into the world. You can go be like your mom for a while. Yeah, my mom dropped out on purpose for that same reason, to reimagine being a mother and being a woman and being intuitive and more primitive in a way. And those were my formative years. And I grew up with this like hippie poor situation my whole life.

I was like, okay, I've done the hippie thing. I want to be a rich hippie. Let's figure this out a little different. You can be super cool and boho on like, you know, mid six figures. So the, the driver in me was he's, are you familiar with the Enneagram? He's a nine on the Enneagram. He's a peacemaker. He flows. I'm an achiever. I'm a three. So we're a good combo. So, so he, was he experiencing the same dissonance in the job? Right. He was worse than me. Because at that point, Mark had crafted this incredible job for me. I was doing special projects for him at home. So I was able to be with the kids and do this cool branding work for fitness concepts.

And Chris was out in the world trying to make it happen. And his spirit was just declining. He was really unhappy. And we were like, is this it? Do we have to just keep playing this game? All this fitness is making you unfit. Unfit. It was, yeah. And lonely. And that is also when we realized loneliness is a key ingredient to fit, to be fit. In fact, Cigna Healthcare CEO just came out with this statement that's so

powerful that in all the research now, and arguably Cigna has incredible data on our state of well-being and health, that in order to thrive, loneliness is the key component. Mental connectedness, physical connectedness, social connectedness. And we were basically missing kind of all three in a way, but the social connectedness was huge for us. So we took that chunk of change and we decided to start a business. Right. And that was bar three. We moved to Portland instead of Bend. Why not Bend?

Bend's great. Yeah, Bend is great for Chris. I need a city. Yeah. I need a little more of that. And I say that and now we're looking at moving outside of Head River someday because I'm ready for the country. I just needed to get that out of me first. Right. So not too hippie, but not too hippie.

Yeah. An urban boho experience without having to work. Like I'm an inner hippie. But the idea was to start this. The idea was not just a cruise, but you were going to start this business, right? So when did you first have the idea for Bar 3? How long had you been kind of harboring that? We were thinking about running yoga studios. So we were already in the studio mindset. And I was teaching at the Daily Method, which is a lovely little studio,

and loving the bar and wanting to make something something my own that really solved some other problems for me and my body and the mindset of it. I didn't want to be attached to a heritage. No heritage. We don't have a method. We're not a methodology. We're attached to a practice of recognizing imbalances and working towards a more balanced state.

We're attached to the idea of being empowered from within and love of learning. So our concept is always changing. I think it's beautiful to have a heritage in ballet or a heritage in Lottie Burke method or a heritage of Pilates. I think those methods are beautiful. And I wanted to try something different that was more evolutionary. And we could just learn from bodies and grow and change.

And that doesn't make sense. When you put that on paper, that is not a good business model. And we didn't care because we weren't going to work for a year anyways. So we let go of all formulas. I was talking to your wife about that. It's like when you lead with business, you let go of the model, the business model, and you lead from what you think is right. And then the model catches up. And that's what happened with us. Yeah. That's exactly how Julie kind of arrived at her thing. But I did read that you read a book when you were at UCLA, like when you were like 21 or 22. Do you know what I'm talking about? Which one?

Creative visualization. Oh my gosh. Yeah. That really keeps manifesting in so many ways. I sat on my porch step in LA with the sun, and I did this visualization, just free-flowing visualization of myself. And at the center of it was the word alone, but in an empowering, energetic way. And I was sitting in lotus pose with monitors behind me. There was something digital. This is before, this is like 1996. Before even any of this was really a real thing. And it was this visualization of movement and connectedness being alone with, and I think I had pictures of other women around me and, but this idea of

practicing this idea of standing up alone, like being in solitude and connected. And that was the seed. And it keeps being, it's to this day, my practice. It's amazing. It really manifested. Yeah. So then like, I don't know, 15 years later or whatever. Yeah. More than that. I don't know, 15 years later or whatever. Yeah. More than that. Yeah, more than that, I know. Gosh, 20, six years.

Yeah, 20 plus years. All right, so you moved to Portland and you set about making this dream a reality. So what did that look like? Like you start teaching for free first, right? Like while you're kind of workshopping the concept and then ultimately open up a studio, like a former ballet space or what? No, we built it out.

In fact, my brother helped design it. It was a family effort and it was play. It was fun. We were in flow state because we gave our, again, we gave ourselves permission. We rented a little house. We went down to one car.

My two little kids were with me all the time. And I rented a little space in Wild Oats, which is now Whole Foods. Upstairs, I walked into this room. You know when things just start clicking? It was set up for my class. A woman there, Judy Moser, was teaching a program called Kalinetics, which was really big in the 80s, which is similar. It's isometric work with a ballet bar. So it was all set up perfectly for me.

And I think it was $20 an hour to rent or something wonderful. And I created brochures, put them around town, invited some women in, and started teaching. And I didn't overly investigate my method. I just started teaching intuitively. Intuitively. Yeah, intuitively. And I taught for close to 20 years prior, so I had a lot of knowledge, but I wrested that knowledge too and really started to move in ways that felt right

and sequencing the body towards balance. But fundamentally in the bar tradition yes yeah yeah that was my framing right and and like bars become this huge thing but yeah um you weren't the first there were already organizations that were doing this and competitors and things like that right like so it wasn't like you were entering into this trying to introduce people to a brand new idea it It was kind of in the ether. Not like it is now, but. Well, great timing too.

And that was a business, educated business decision. I knew bar was going to take off. Why did you know that? Because it was sophisticated. It was a new take on fitness. It was not high impact. It was about being strong. It was women-centric.

It was small, community-based. It was about being strong. It was women-centric. It was small, community-based. It was to music. There were so many things I loved about it. We should probably define what it is. Yeah. Yes. So I'll talk about Bar 3, and there are some things. Do you want me to talk about Bar or Bar 3? Maybe Bar first, and then how bar three is different and the same. Sure. Bar originated by a woman named Lottie Burke who injured herself as a dancer. And she therapeutically rehabbed herself at a ballet bar and created the Lottie Burke method.

And from what I understand, I'm not real close to this heritage. What I understand is some of her key instructors moved to New York. They started studios. And this proliferation of this methodology started. And back then, all the different bar studios I attended, all founded by women. Just shout out there. And all amazing. I have mad respect for every single one of them.

When I took classes back then, they were all very similar. It reminds me of Bikram, how other hot yogas will be the same 26 poses. Yeah. Similar. There was some nuances and definitely character changes and culture differences, but there was a system around it. You start with marches, you do these things. So that took off in the 90s and then came around in the early 2000s. And then it was the fastest growing niche for like five years in all of fitness.

And so that, I really liked it. And honestly, I've been in the industry so long, it reminded me of a contemporary jazzercise. Something about it, like the way that teachers taught, it was very kind of robotic, but in a good way, like a comforting way. And you knew what was happening and it was cool and it was fun and it was efficient. And you worked like head to toe without sweating too much. And there were just all these cool things about it that I did like. Right. So you take that idea and then how do you extrapolate on that to create your own unique take? I had chronic low back issues and did not give myself nor did I feel like the environment was conducive to modify. Like ballet, it was very much about being symmetrical and following the method, the alignment method.

Similar to Yungar yoga is very focused on precise precision. This is defined by God. And we will not divert from the dogma. Right. It's so attached. And I always had this rebellious nature where I wanted to do something crazy with my body. And it made me giggle because I'm like, in fact, I did it once in New York City at a studio. I cracked up in the middle because I was dying. We were doing squats, and I was dying. And I was in probably the best shape of my life. And there was a woman, I kid you not, that was like nine months pregnant, killing it right next to me.

I couldn't do it all, and she was doing it. And I burst out laughing more out of joy. And I said, you've got to be kidding. I said it out loud. And the instructor stopped class and she said, I'm so sorry. She just really distracted me. Oh my God. How dare you? I was, but it was so, I was like, gosh, we need a release and laugh about these things and like give, have permission to laugh and like stop.

Yeah. Holding on so tightly to it is part of the problem. We were, we just achieve, achieve, achieve, get there, get there, get there. stop. Yeah. Holding on so tightly to it is part of the problem. We were just achieve, achieve, achieve, get there, get there, get there. The whole mantra was tuck, tuck, tuck. We're supposed to tuck our pelvis and like these things. And I had really chronic low back pain and shame around it. But I wanted to do it. And I kept pushing myself into it and getting worse and worse and worse. And went back to that memory of being pregnant and started modifying. I started doing that at home. And plus I was going through yoga training. My mind was getting blown. I trained with Annie Carpenter, who's freaking amazing. And everything she was telling me was resonating, but the actual movement of yoga hurt my body.

I'm hypermobile. I need more stability. There wasn't room for modifications, even though they said there was. In flow, there's not really. So that's part of it is I wanted to create a practice where the reason we're exercising is to acknowledge, oh, I'm doing it like everybody else. I should be doing it like myself. Instead of trying to... Copying skips understanding. That's one of my favorite quotes. I read that in a book, Rework. Copying skips understanding. And movement is an exercise of exercising body wisdom, of learning about your body. That's why I love it. Now I have my attachment to that versus it being a chore, shame, I'm not good enough. My injury is something I should push away instead of work with.

And that's what Chris and I got excited about. How can we do that? Is that possible in a group environment? so you take all this experience that you've accumulated over the years uh teaching to basically assemble a new sort of loosely held protocol assembling yeah assemble it's constantly evolving it's still going it's always going on and we really are always all this experience that you have like growing this massive gym organization, and you're kind of perfectly positioned to make this a thing, right? So when did you know that this was going to work?

The minute I taught, well, I had a feeling during the pop-up classes because it was just such a cool group of women that were coming and they were enjoying it. But once we designed our studio, which was around community and being bright and light, and aesthetics are really important to me and Chris both. We've learned that over and over again. So creating an environment. We put a childcare gate in the lobby because we had little kids. And so having that childcare component was important to us. And the sense of community and connection and relationship first, exercise second.

When I wrote an email out to the various people who had tried the class, I had got my certificate of occupancy that day. I said, I'm going to teach a class tonight if anyone wants to come. I had no idea if people would come. I think like 12 people showed up. They paid, and they took the class with me. And I will never forget that moment, that first song, that first warmup.

I just, in my body, knew this is so gonna work. What was it about that that told you that? It was like validation of I'm doing this my own way and they see themselves in it and they love it. They're a part of it with me. Those women, I still remember them, all of them. I remember the first woman who bought her membership. I remember all those women. They felt as much a part of it as I did. I didn't feel alone in it. I felt very supported. And also the business side of it i knew it was 2008 too as august 2008 when the recession was at its worst and but we all needed it so badly yeah that's that's the moment in time

where the extraneous stuff like classes go out the window right yeah in the gym concept for sure because it's not a revenue driver right yeah i Yeah. I was always pushed, like 24-hour fitness was exciting, but group exercise was dismissed. It wasn't interesting because it didn't show up in the bottom line. Yeah. It seems like they've never been able to make that work at the big chains because it's fundamentally personality driven, I feel like. I mean, I don't know. You're the one who overlorded over all of

that. But whether it's Equinox or these other huge organizations, they all have group classes, but they don't create that excitement that the boutique studios that are specific to one thing are able to generate. Yeah. In my experience, I've felt a lot of enthusiasm and excitement in those classes in the big boxes. Yeah, I have felt that. I didn't feel intimacy. Yeah. And that is meaning, like, connection. And, like, I didn't ever feel like this is, I'm a part of this.

This is our thing. We're doing this together. Yeah, I didn't feel ownership. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's echoed over and over again with other people. So you know this is going to work, and there's a renewed or kind of redoubled commitment to build this thing in alignment with core values, right? That you've worked very hard to adhere to over all these years. values that you've worked very hard to adhere to over all these years. What are those core values and how have you tried to keep the guardrails up to protect that over time while you're experiencing

all this growth and all the kind of stuff that comes with that? Well, it's definitely a practice because the business world is so intoxicating. And a lot of our values are inner motivated. And the external measures and the external way of doing things are often in conflict. So our core values, I mentioned, committed to real. And when that book came out with me being photoshopped basically beyond recognition, and the words being manipulated on the inside to fit the model. There's before and after pictures in it.

All these things that didn't feel right for me, but I did. Right. I did it anyways because- So who was the person in your ear that was pushing you in that direction that didn't feel right? Is it just the dangling carrot out front? This is going to be, if you want to really blow this up, like this is the way you do it? In my ego, like this is great.

I get a book. I get to get out in the world. And also my responsibility to my franchisees because we're a small fish. And this would get us national exposure, get people in our doors. I've always thought having a book is like you arrive when you have a book. And I just jumped on it without really investigating, like, is this the right fit for me? Right. Or what is the book that you want?

What is it that you actually want to say? It wasn't my book. They had it all figured out and they put my image on it basically. Right. And so that's my, I take accountability for that. Not them. I mean, I could have said no, but we ended up pulling the book and not selling it and the DVDs at the time. And what we learned there is, oh, yeah, if we, our definition of a core value is we are willing to take a financial hit to uphold the core value.

So it's not just about driving the revenue. It's really like we're going to scale back because this value is so important to us. Right. And that over and over again, we've learned. And I've learned personally in my own body and what works for me. Everybody matters is another one of our core values. And that's how we talk about the anti-guru and being really open and democratic and collective wisdom, listening to our clients, listening to our franchisees, our owners, all these women who have invested their life savings into this concept, really exercising that they matter. That's a practice. It's hard to do.

But it's something we really believe in and we're really leaning into more and more and more. And when it comes to Everybody Matters, the other thing I'm very self-aware of and working towards, and our whole team is investigating this, is that wellness in general is affluent white women in my industry. And you're sitting across from me. That's who I am, right? I'm aware of that. And that is not healthy. I'm healthy, but that we're not in diversity is not healthy in wellness. And so that's something we're really leaning into is how do we really uphold that value? How do you? We are asking a lot of questions. I don't have the answers, but I have radical curiosity around it. And we are asking questions amongst ourselves and with other people in our network. How do we raise diversity and leadership first in our organization? How do we represent more equally all throughout our

organization at the executive level, all the way through our studios into our instructors? So we're showing up as leaders in a diverse way. So that's step number one. And then having these kinds of conversations, just saying it out loud and asking for help and knowing that it really does matter. And it's more inviting. I love classes when I walk in. And it's just where we go, where we do really well with Everybody Matters that we've been focused on is body diversity, age diversity, economic diversity. We do those three things really well. Right.

We do those three things really well. Right. Basically, the mission is, I mean, this is from your website, body positivity and female empowerment, redefining what it means, what fitness means, redefining fitness success. Did you know from the very, and the franchise model is really endemic to that, right? Like that's a big part of it. Did you know from the beginning that you wanted to do this in that franchise way? Yeah. So that you could empower these other people to create businesses and empower teams and other women? Like what was the philosophy behind that? Yeah. And we didn't franchise at 24 Hour Fitness. So that was a new model for us. That was owner operator. We had investment at 24 Hour Fitness, owned everything.

So we decided on franchising as our growth strategy because it was really interesting to us to think about having a business partner who their investment into the business, their financial investment, they were going to actually be present in the studio. So we're owner-operated. They invest and they uphold the product. And that commitment level was exciting to Chris and I, that we'll have empowered business women and men putting their own skin in the game and blood, sweat, and tears. Right. I'm sure there were people telling you, don't do that. Go the private equity route. You won't be able to control it.

You won't be able to control the product and the premium aspect of what you want to create doing it that way. And the control is right, but I don't want to control people anyways. Even if we owned all the studios, I don't want to control people because over and over again, I learn that when I let go of that, our product becomes better. Yes, it'll go down this, like it won't always be great and exactly what I define as awesome, but there's always something to learn from that. And when you create an organization of people that are allowed to try things and be a part of it, usually in my experience, it gets better, not worse. Yeah. That pushes my control freak button big time. We were talking about this in the kitchen.

You have to develop a huge capacity for letting go because your product, as you were saying, isn't a wheel of cheese or a McDonald's hamburger. It's a service. And that service is delivered by a human being. And every human being is different, and they're going to have their own way of doing this thing that you worked hard to create.

Thank goodness. And you have to be cool with that. In fact, you're encouraging that. So any creative person will tell you you need structure to be creative. We have structure. We have a very clear blueprint and knowledge base around sequencing and musicality and all the things. We do give them very, very contained guardrails around how, but within that structure, insert you. Insert your

whole self into it authentically. Choose your words. Choose your own story and your own body way to make this class relevant for you. I think it's so kind of sad to go to a class and see an instructor robotically teaching something that they memorized versus really it creates a barrier between me as a student and the teacher. They're not able to really connect and be themselves. And so while it's scary and it can turn sideways sometimes, it usually creates more connection and community. And most people that we've surveyed, like I think that people wouldn't necessarily say Bar 3 is the most technical of them all, but I think most people would say Bar 3 has an amazing community.

And that's the key thing, right? That's what we care about. That's the heart of the whole deal. personalities teaching this program is this curiosity that you had around like, why are some classes more popular than others? And realizing that a lot of it was rooted in voice inflection. So walk me through that. I think that's really interesting. We had the coolest aha, me and a team of trainers, we're always bringing in experts for the body. And I had an observation going to classes that the tone of someone's voice and inflection created a more contained kind of exciting, exhilarating class or sort of a not so interesting class, but it was technically the exact same class. And what we learned,

and I'm always self-conscious talking about this because I start to listen to my own inflections, and I just did it, that we tend to end in question marks. Yeah, oh my gosh. Women, but we are conditioned to end a lot of sentences in question marks. So root your foot to the floor,

and then we'll go to the mat. And then there's this upward. And the question mark is an unconscious, am I enough? Are you with me? Is this okay? Do you see me? Like there's something in that. My instructors that were like, root your feet to the floor.

Stand tall. We're coming to the mat. You know, that sense of like, I am here, I have this voice. And there was also a vibration, a kind of a, they were using their diaphragm. So we brought in a voice coach. Let's look at this. And this voice coach just got in there with us talking about how voice is so much more than just speaking. It's how we use our diaphragm. And we all realize that in fitness, we've all been taught to suck in our bellies. And so a lot of us were talking like this.

And we were talking in our face voices because we weren't breathing into our bellies, because we were afraid of expanding our bellies. So we even changed our retail line to more flowy tops and inviting the belly to breathe, inviting the diaphragm, inviting voice. And that voice is another way we show up in the world. And that what a service. It's so beautiful. We have voice training for now, not just instructors. It's part of our instructor training now, but my whole team at the home office. Right. not just instructors, it's part of our instructor training now, but my whole team at the home office. So when we stand up in front of an audience, our voice mirrors our strength and doesn't undermine it.

And have you been able to measure the impact of those changes on the experience of the person who's taking the class? Yeah, I mean, one instructor in particular, but it was across the board. We saw so many changes. Her class is waitlisted now. And she is one of my top trainers. And she was a musical performer.

And just the most incredible woman ever. She got into her chest voice and her intimacy more versus performance. And nobody knew. It's not a thing you can really understand. I don't think any client would ever understand that connection. But yeah, it was a huge part. That voice, and then we also really looked at all the senses, heat, sound, the vibe. Right.

It matters. What is the experience that you want somebody taking that class? How do you want them to feel when they leave? What is it that you're going for? Balanced in body, more balanced in body, and empowered from within. If I was to just distill it, and that took a lot of time for us to really work through what that meant. But that really is over and over again. When we get out to teach, that's what we're doing.

Recognizing imbalances, working towards a more balanced state, not being attached, but more importantly, being empowered from within. And feeling not depleted, but energized, rewarded, connected in community. The reason we love the ballet bar is it wraps around the room as a circle and i really believe in formation matters and that our environment matters and when we're at the ballet bar we're facing the bar so we're not seeing each other we have this sense permission of solitude and connectedness inside Yet we're shoulder to shoulder with other people in the classroom with a clear definition of that's our goal is to give you permission to be your own best teacher.

And so there's something about having people witness that, being near you while you're doing it, that I think reinforces that feeling of I'm empowered and it's okay. Like people are seeing me and respecting that I'm making different choices than they are in my body. Right. I should know the answer to this, but can a dude go to the class? Is it women only? Yeah.

Because I just assumed it's a – like to me, I drive by these bars and I was like, well, that's off limits for me. Yeah. There's this whole shadow world of female fitness that's behind a velvet rope that I'm not allowed to pass. I know. Of course you would think that. We've been talking about this. So the thing with women's empowerment, of course we're a part of that, but this is not for women. We all need to be a part of this. This is human conditioning. How many guys go? A few, very few. Does Chris go? Not so much because more, he just needs to get away from us. He's like the only man in our office. There's like four men in our office. He's got to go to like the shooting range

or something, balance out his testosterone. He's a big golfer. Yeah, he's a big golfer. or something, balance out his testosterone? He's a big golfer. Yeah, he's a big golfer. Yes, men for sure. And that's another part of our diversity is raising more men within our organization as instructors and leaders. Yeah, I would be like, if I had curiosity,

I'd be like, I can't go in that lobby of that building. You don't have to be flexible, coordinated. It's not dance. It's not dance. It's not ballet at all. It's lunges. It's isometric work. We hold the body. We move small in certain ways.

We move large. It's basically a full body balance workout that combines cardio, mindfulness, and strength conditioning in a specific approach of teaching. Yeah. So that is not female-oriented. That's everybody-oriented. Right. I mean, it sounds good to me. Yeah.

There is a downbeat. We love music. We have a very specific tone with the music. So there is a sense of that. But it's also, you'll see people going to the four count or the two count or the single, everybody picks, you can pick your own beat. I mean, it's, it's yeah. So you've got 140. 140 open. Right. Six of those you own and the rest of those are franchise franchises. Um, I mean, that's ridiculous growth. Was there an, back to this idea of inflection points, was there like an inflection point or two along the way where it, you saw like this kind of hockey stick growth or like to

what do you attribute like that level of expansion? That, I mean, we, that's actually in our industry and how strong our product is and how liked it was we could we could be double the amount of studios we made a conscious choice to slow down on growth when we could have sold yeah there was there was this moment we could sell to private equity with the intent if we did that that they we would have this group of people supporting us. You could just really blow it up. And really blow it out. I can't imagine that moment has passed, though.

No, it's still available to you. It's still out there. I mean, that's got to be challenging, to think like, oh my God, I could sell this thing. It's challenging when we're fatigued, honestly. It's challenging when we're fatigued, honestly. It's challenging when we're fatigued. That's not a good reason to sell.

Because all of my owners are like, you know, that's, so we're really self-aware of that and we do the work. We investigate that all the time. When I say do the work, we inner work. What matters? What's right? We'll be okay. We have plenty.

We have enough. That's Chris and I's mantra, plenty and enough. And then how can we magnify and optimize what we have here? Because it is so special. I mean, really, it's just special. And is there a way now to create a growth strategy that honors what's special about it? That it is still heart-centered? That we do have people, amazing magnetic leaders running it now. that honors what's special about it, that it is still heart-centered, that we do have people, amazing magnetic leaders running it now.

And I definitely see Bar 3 outside of myself. I didn't two years ago. It's not mine anymore. And we are right now working with a wonderful executive recruiter, Roy Noto, to hire someone to come in and help us run the company. So we are finding someone else to help us who really enjoys scaling, really enjoys operating. All the things that Chris and I really need someone else to come in and help us with. That's our new growth strategy. Yeah.

I mean, I think an argument can be made that, you know, to some extent, SoulCycle lost its soul, you know, by selling it. And when you're in a position where, you know, growth is basically the only important metric and there's so much pressure on you to scale at an exponential rate that it's almost impossible to maintain the kind of core integrity that begat the thing to begin with. Yeah. It's, oh, gosh. When that SoulCycle stuff came out, I sent the founders so much love and strength and power. And I think I have mad respect for them, and I understand their choices. And in a way, it's a gift. And I hope they see that way too, that it's okay. That's, of course, that's how business works. That's how we've all been told that's what success is.

And so I don't think there's any shame in that story, and I think they're rebuilding, and they're a beautiful organization. I don't mean to throw shade at them at all. No, but it is that. No, that's the story. No, I get what you mean. That was the headline. And I think. No, but it is that. No, that's the story. No, I get what you mean. That was the headline. And I think there's always an investigation under that.

Like, okay, that's the headline, but that doesn't need to be our story. Let's change this. And I do believe that there are great investment companies out there that would, I just have to believe, that at some point could help. I think angel investment is probably a really good route for us. I don't know yet. You just have one investor, right? The 24-hour fitness guy. Yeah, at the very beginning.

He's been an awesome advisor and not an active participant in the operations of the company or leadership in the company. Yeah. And another big part of this whole thing is the online subscription aspect of it as well, right? That's where I'm really leaning. I'm leaning into that big time. I think that's so, so good and something I really want to grow into even more. That side of our business is basically drafted off the studios versus us being really intentional about that growth strategy, which is really different than the actual experience of being together in a studio. The beautiful thing about

working out at home is you have even more permission back to when I was pregnant at home to be in your body and confident. And so I really love that aspect. And we want to learn more about how we can reach people. The tricky thing there is trying to hold on to that core value of community, right? Like there is such a thing as virtual community, but it's not the same as the experience of like bonding with human beings in an analog real life setting. It's not the same. I think it's how we use that device that it doesn't use us, that we use the device. We use our phones. We use all the whatever it is in a way that serves us and to be really clear on that.

And that, in fact, should be part of our teaching as we're teaching the class, reminding that do this so you can then shut it off and be more present as a mother, win the race that you're training for, whatever it is. Yeah. Well, as this CEO and founder who, you know, gets a lot of press and makes all these fancy lists of, you know, the top this and that, do you think about, you know, how you model yourself to the next generation of female entrepreneurs, like in a mentorship context? Like, how do you think about that? Well, when all this stuff was going down about me as a, you know, that anonymous survey and remarks about who I was as a leader, I was like, I had a lot of imposter syndrome about being the CEO.

of imposter syndrome about being the CEO. And my brother actually said to me, because I said, you know, I want to just step back. I don't want to do this anymore. This isn't me. I'm not good at this. And he said, you keep that title. Yes, you are. I mean, we grew up with women. Miguel said this, yeah. Keep that title. Do not let go of that title. You're redesigning it. You're redesigning what it is to be a CEO. Maybe, you know, and so in my mind, I've changed it to chief energy officer. And that I'm tapping into that and my feminine side and being okay.

There's a reason why there aren't very many women CEOs. It's because that construct doesn't work for a lot of women. Some women it does because this is a natural alignment for them, but most women obviously it isn't or there would be more of us as CEOs. So maybe we need to redefine what that means. That's the one kind of feminist side of me that's like, I'm going to keep that title, even though I'm really looking at peeling back even more in terms of executive leadership. So yeah, and I think more so than being a leader, I think of future generations that collectively, not just Bar 3, but all of us that are doing this

kind of work about letting go of external forces and the measures that are attached to those as defining our success, and that that's a practice, to let go of that external force and instead look inside what really matters to me. Let me practice that. Let me show up that way. Whatever we practice, we become. And that if all of us do that more, more, more, then those forces will change. That the conditioning for our daughters and their daughters and their daughters and sons or however they identify will be more in alignment with people being empowered. And that's more important to me. There's a tired trope around the female CEO, which is that you have to literally be superhuman and be this

incredible mom and partner and executive, and you have to excel in all of those areas. And then you have to field a bunch of questions about how you balance being a mom with running a company, which a male CEO never gets. Nobody's asking the male CEOs how they balance being an amazing dad with running a company. There's an imbalance in how we treat and think about women entrepreneurs. Yeah, and each of us as women, whoever's listening to this, we have, the worst part about that is our own inner critic. We have that voice inside of our heads. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're trying to measure yourself against that. Yeah. Oh my gosh, I'm not enough. I'm not enough a mom. I'm not enough a wife. I'm not enough a CEO.

I'm not enough. That is that voice. That's the only thing we can truly control. We can't control all the external forces out there. That's what I mean, that conditioned world. But I think when you did a bunch of interviews after you had that kind of epiphany and talked about the anonymous survey and how this kind of brought you to your knees and you had to rethink everything. And I think that was a beautiful offering

to give the other sort of female executives out there permission to take a breath, you know, and realize that they're not alone in this. We're not alone. That is the best message over and over again. My mom said to me, it struck me like a lightning bolt when I was talking around the phone, you are always going to suffer. You are always going to suffer. And for some reason, that sounds so sad, right? But for some reason, it gave me so much freedom. It's okay to suffer.

And in fact, it's human. Every single one of us suffer. Every single one of us has an inner critic. I don't know why that was very freeing for me. That in combination with, and I can change that inner critic to inner warrior. I have the power to change that conversation in my own mind, in my own self, and then talk about it so other women have permission and men have permission to do the same thing.

When you look at your success, what do you think has been your greatest strength? What has contributed to this incredibly successful organization? I would say I don't even consider a strength. It's just truly who I am is being open and vulnerable. And thank you, Brene Brown, for bringing words around that. Because before I read her books and saw her, I didn't even know that was a thing. And that she just put such framing,

she framed it for so many of us. And that is true. I mean, that is, I lead with a courageous, vulnerable heart. And that's how I, because I was trained in that from a very young age. And inviting that into other people's lives to do the same thing is what I genuinely enjoy doing. So I think that's what's attracted people to the organization. It's why people stay. It's also why some people

leave and that's okay too. Well, these things have to find their own level. You know what I mean? And when you look back, you know, other than the things we've already talked about, like, what are the, some of the lessons or mistakes that you made that have been instructive in how you kind of lead more mindfully now? I really had an ego in the beginning. And even in my language, I'd say how I wanted to do it was, and I wonder if I've been doing that in this interview. I've been really thinking about that. I did start Bar 3, but now it's we. I mean, 100,000%. And that's what, I mean, I told you about it. Structure a circle and you all matter. But I don't think I was always showing up that way. I would dominate conversations and meetings, interrupt, or try to... I was being fed this message out in the world that you're the face of this company. And so I think that got to me. And that's been a good reconciliation for me.

That didn't serve me at all. It made me feel awful. And just to remember that that's a false sense of power. That's not real. And that's been a really powerful journey. And I really do think being a business owner is the most amazing way to develop as a person if you lean into it and you're okay sharing and growing that way. And now, of course, learning active listening skills and just making fun of myself and all the things, it's so much more fun, you know, and things are happening and it's freedom. And I'm letting go, being an aging woman in the world, you know, I'm told every day not to age, don't age, don't age, don't age. And I think that I was trying to overcompensate for that. And that's been a whole new thing is just being okay aging and really-

Yeah, you wrote a piece about that. I love talking about age. I just was with my godmother, who is the oldest of my mom's friends, who is truly my spiritual mother. I was in bed with her when she passed away. There was 12 of us around the bed, and I was with her with my hand on her heart. And it was the greatest privilege and gift. And what I learned in my body in that moment, viscerally, is life is finite. Energy is finite. And that what an honor to age. What an honor. And to be present and remember that is so grounding. And so I'm fascinated with aging and death and everything right now. Like, I cannot stop thinking about death.

Being a part of that experience was, I don't know, it was forever life-changing. You sound exactly like Julie. You guys get in a room and come out four days later. We need to eat some cheese together. I think so. She loves talking about death. That's amazing. Yeah, I think it's unique to be in the kind of health and wellness space

and also have a healthy perspective on the finality of this experience and an appreciation for its temporality and to just kind of fall in love with, you know, this journey of getting older, you know, as opposed to combating it and fighting it. And it's, I think it's a, you know, it's part of this more macro conversation that we're having about holding things loosely, right? As opposed to like the fitness, hold it tight and push it hard and, you know, fight and, you know, claw your way at every step rather than being more in the allowing, you know, and the empowering. Yeah.

Well, the other thing I want to talk about, just sitting across the table from someone that I admire so much who is the most incredible athlete. Your story is so, so, so amazing. Is that I think I'm interpreted often as, oh, that's soft and sweet. And it doesn't mean that it's not hard work. Yeah. Like all of what I'm talking about I think has a lot to do with being an endurance athlete, for example. There's nothing wrong with wanting to win. Yeah.

There's nothing wrong with the results and the pain and the resilience and the grit and the pushing through and the healing, the heart, that hard work, right? healing the heart, that hard work, right? And I just think that every one of us can practice that in a different way. And that there's not one way to do that, but it's always brave space. That when I was talking about brave space, my favorite quote is the sand in the oyster that makes the pearl, the rub. And so with bar three, it is challenging. You do go to fatigue. It is a struggle. And then it's learning to breathe through that struggle and look at it without judgment or shame, and then work all the way through it. That's one thing that happens in like my friend Anne says, I'm her woo-woo friend. She's like, you always bring the woo. Thanks for bringing the woo-woo. And we were talking about how woo-woo can sound so soft and easy. And I get what she means by woo-woo.

And I always say, I'm woo. I'm not woo-woo. I'm like half woo. And I'm half. Well, I mean, woo-woo gets, we need a new word. You know what I mean? Because there's a different way to frame it, which is to be a Jedi warrior. You know what I mean? Like you's a different way to frame it, which is to be a Jedi warrior. You know what I mean?

Like you have to be like rooted in some of these kind of age old tenets that have to do with surrender and allowing, but are actually, and vulnerability. And when to lean into them and when to be in action. And it's that interplay, that balance, that ballet between the two that, you know, creates the person that can not just manifest the big vision in the three-dimensional world as you've done, but do it with grace and humility, you know? And resilience and grit. All of those things, right? Yeah. And now, and when you're, when you're saying, when you're, when you're describing me like, oh, this, this athlete and all this sort of thing, like I'm just sitting here thinking about my version of your story, which is, yeah, you can find pictures of me on the internet where I'm completely shredded,

you know, and I look ridiculously fit in a way that's inaccessible for people, but that's not how I look right now. You know, like I look like that for five minutes when I was training two years straight for a crazy race. And then that was over with. Do you ever look at that and kind of want to like go back to that? Yes and no. I mean, that's part of, you know, on the subject of aging, you know, it's part of, part of this for me is, is embracing where I'm at right now and being okay with that. Like if I'm constantly measuring myself, you know, by a yardstick of what I look like 10 years ago, right before a race that I put everything into, then I'm going to suffer more than I need to, you know? And, and Julie's always saying like, you just, you have to

do like, you have to go out and trail run and do these things that you enjoy doing for the love of it, not for a performance goal or because you have an agenda, but because it's who you are and it doesn't have to be about a metric. Who you are right now. Yeah. And, and, and, you know, so for me, it's like, oh, people, you know, I bump into them and they say, oh, did you run 50 miles today? Or how, you know, like, like, no, that's not how, you know, oh, did you run 50 miles today? Or how, you know, like, no, that's not how, you know, I'm podcasting and like, I haven't taken a break in seven years and I'm like grinding like crazy working seven days a week. And now I'm doubling down on that because I'm going to take my first like real sabbatical on December for the first time in many years. But that means that my workload now is double or triple what it normally is. So my self-care regimen is like out the window

right now trying to get all of this done. And it goes back to that thing of like all this wellness is making me unwell or fitness is making me unfit. This industry that we're in or this business or this projected image of who you are, who you're supposed to be isn't matching your reality in the moment. And how do you like not shame yourself over that and just be okay with it and be like, this is for now because I'm doing this thing. Yes. And this will balance out. In this moment.

Yeah. In this moment. Right. In this moment. I know the backstory, like looking back to the before and after picture, so many of our after pictures are in the past. Yeah. And the one that kills me and just

is so ridiculous is new moms. When you have a baby, what does the fitness industry tell you to do? Bounce back. That's like the predominant message. Bounce back with this class. So you're supposed to go backwards and not be like, really the message is don't be a mother. Like once you have a child, you are a mother. There is an external measure. It's called a baby. And your body is forever changed. But then we go to classes to bounce back.

There's so much shame in that. And it's absolutely impossible. There's no way we'll ever go back. And so, again, language, conditioning, and just all of us, I think, just remembering how ridiculous that story is. We all know it's ridiculous. And then practicing, remembering, oh, that doesn't matter. Right now matters, this moment, this moment.

Yeah. Move forward gracefully isn't as catchy. No. Well, how about just be alive in your body right now? What do you need? Yeah. about just be alive in your body right now. What do you need? I need to get away from my baby for 40 minutes, 10 minutes and move and be alive in my body without my baby. Like that's what I need. You know, I don't need to like reshape my body right this moment. That's not really what you

need as a new mom. Right. So there's, it's just, it's that constant remembering what we kind of already know inside. So what is the state of the fitness industry now from your estimation? Are we doing a better job? Are we moving in the right direction? Yes. I do think we are moving in a really good direction. The whole idea of empowerment is almost big right now. It's trending. And the, which I like. So I think language is really important. Language shifts,

thoughts become things. And so there's a lot of message about body positivity. Even in imagery, there's all shapes and sizes when I'm specifically talking about women. That's really, really positive in making a shift. And it's more confusing than ever because when you look at Instagram, which I have a 15-year-old daughter and my son too. And for myself, going through, we're seeing thousands and thousands of images 24-7 now. It's not like it used to be where I'd open the Victoria's Secret catalog when I was in high school and pour over those women's bodies and that's what sexy is, that's what worthy is. I remember just thinking, my body needs to be like that. Now it's on your phone and it's the girl next door, the guy next door with filters and just slight adjustments

and still objectifying the body, but with positivity in the language. Right. So there'll be like a picture of someone with like 70,000 likes or whatever, and she's showing a ripped, beautiful body. And then in it say, don't compare yourself to anybody. It's all about self-acceptance. Yeah. Whoa, it's confusing.

I love, those are my favorite because it's so preposterous. It's so confusing. Those are my favorite because it's so preposterous. It's so confusing. And so transparently wrong, but effective, obviously. It works. That's what sells. I mean, these people have way more attention out there in the world.

I don't know if it's helping. And I think they're within good intentions because they're doing legacy-based stuff and they're building their own business. And I get that. And I think there just needs to intentions because they're doing legacy-based stuff and they're building their own business. And I get that. And I think there just needs to be a general awareness about it. That the proliferation of imagery is worse than it used to be. That the forces in the world are more than they used to be. Yeah. And I don't think that we really understand the implications of this yet. So how does all of that affect how you parent?

Oh my gosh. I feel like I'm a brand new parent right now. I feel like I have a baby in a car seat coming home from the hospital. Like, give me a manual. I don't know what I'm doing. Because teenage daughter. This is the joke that I have all the time with Julie.

I'm like, because we raised together two boys, my step-sons who are now grown and out of the house. And it had its challenges, but overall it was fine. And I thought that I kind of had parenting figured out. And having a teenage daughter, that's just all out the window. I am completely ill-equipped to manage this situation. Okay. So you're no help. Yeah. No, I'm asking you. We can just commiserate over our ineffectiveness. I love it, though. I love this stage. Well, first of all, I don't feel like it was that

long ago. I was 15. I identify with her more. I get her, which is kind of alarming, right? Some of the things I think about myself at her age and what I did and how I behaved. And I just think over and over again what my mom always tells me is just see her. Just keep seeing her. And, you know, she'll share something with me and I'll really think about a good response and like just recently she shared something pretty important and I responded

back and she just and I thought I did such a good job she's like mom you sound like an Instagram ad yeah well you're just in the phase where you really you can't there's nothing you could say that's going to be right and I think for me it's just how can I make sure that the communication is always open and doesn't shut down. It's there.

If she's, both my kids know, if they need to come to talk to me, I'm going to listen. Yeah. And without shame and judgment. And I think that's harder for them because I am seen in the public eye so much. And that's really been confusing. I didn't have that. Nobody's equipped me to be a parent. As a public figure, for them to see maybe their friend's moms know who I am or people in restaurants come up to me or that whole thing.

I am or people in restaurants come up to me or that whole thing. And then to be in fitness and that side of it and to be so successful and to talk about all this intimate stuff, I think that's intimidating for kids. Yeah. Who am I in this? Like, what is my success story? Do I need to live up to that? Right. So that's, you know, we all did core values.

I do this really fun core values exercise, really profound core values exercise at our retreats. And I did it with the family, and we all have our core values up on the fridge. And one of Audrey's is freedom. I think a lot of teenagers probably share that. But I really think that's going to stick with her forever, and I always have to remember that, that her core value is freedom, freedom in defining who she is, freedom in rules,

freedom in general, and honoring that. Yeah, that's cool. I might try that. It's really neat. If I ask my daughter to write down her core value, she might just pivot and walk away from me. Yeah, maybe third party it. How do you deliver that message?

Third party. I think that's great. I think, what was I going to say? I think that it's really hard to be a teenager right now. It's a very confusing time. And the more compassionate I can be about that and just be a good listener, the better off I am going to be. Yeah, and it's cliche. And I know it's true. How we show up is how they learn.

In the in-between moments, not in the talk, like the big talks or the Instagram moment when she said, you sound like an Instagram. That's not really when she's going to learn anyways. It's my behaviors and how I'm. Yeah. Does your daughter come to bar classes? Now that her friends think it's cool. Ah.

I think that that's cool that she gets to go with her friends. Yeah. Yeah, she's an incredible athlete. She's a soccer player. Oh, cool. Yeah. Cool. She's a fun athlete to watch.

All right, well, let's land this plane. She's a fun athlete to watch. All right, well, let's land this plane. Maybe we can close it out with just a few thoughts for the budding women entrepreneurs out there, or any entrepreneur for that matter, I suppose. People who are looking to create something, like what are some words of wisdom that you can close this down with?

You already are creating in this moment and that just the idea or the thought is a creation, right? And so that's one. You're already creating. You're already there. You're already doing it. It's a practice. It'll always be like that. And trusting that and honoring that versus I'm not good enough. I'm not there yet. I haven't done it yet. I don't know how to do it. I can't do that. How, why would I, who am I to start my own fitness concept? Right. It's well, if you're thinking about it, you're already at the cramping. Second is, um, you already know the answers, uh, over and over again in my experience, when I scratch my own itch, there's other people like me that have that same itch. And to know that a data point of one is also really important than a statistical survey over across millions. Specifically,

if you're creating something out of a problem that is personal for you, which I think a lot of people in fitness, that's how it happens. And then I would say the third is to be open to learning and just surrounding yourself with people who you can learn from and grow with and who make you uncomfortable just enough where you're failing and falling forward and getting back up again and getting back up again and getting back up in a safe space. Community is key. I like that idea of the N of one, like trusting, like if you are sort of integrated enough where you can trust that intuitive voice to understand that just because you might be the only one who's feeling that, that that's still valid.

Like that's what Hollywood is built on. Somebody has an idea for a movie because it's the movie they want to see and they make it into the world. You know, like, that's how everything begins. Great products. Great products and businesses start, if people tell you, if you share your idea and people say, oh, that would never work. Great. That means it's probably awesome. Right. Maybe not always, but I would be careful with that. Well, but then who cares? Try it. There's a sense of just go.

If you really think and you know, why not? Give it a go. I just saw Sarah Blakely speak who did Spanx. Yeah, yeah. Her husband's a good friend of mine. He was just here a couple days ago. She's awesome. And nobody thought her idea was great.

They're like, you're going to cut off pantyhose? Like, that's, she's like, no, perfect. It's nobody gets it yet, right? And I think there is something to that. Same with me. I'm like, yeah, I want to do a fitness. I don't even want to call it fitness. And I want it to be about relationships and community and fighting lonely.

And I don't want it to be attached to a heritage. And I want everybody to do their own thing in a group environment. Like all these things that people are like, that doesn't work. That's not group exercise. That's not fitness. I'm not going to have a sales team. I'm not going to advertise. Well, you're not going to get off the ground. It's not going

to work. But we just shut out all the business books, all the noise. Everything we learned at 24 Fitness, honestly, we shut out. And that's how Bar 3 came into the world. Yeah. It's cool. Sarah's hilarious. Oh, my gosh. Do you follow her on Instagram? Now I do. Oh, it's the best. She's so authentic.

I know. Did you see the video that she put up where she's in some boardroom and there's like oil paintings of all these stuffy men that were barons of the underwear industry going back like a hundred years or something like that. And she's like, you're telling me this guy's gonna tell me what kind of underwear I should be wearing.

It's the funniest thing. It's so true. I know. It's so true. Anyway. Yeah, she's wonderful. All right, well, this was lovely. Thank you.

So, so fun. Yeah, I appreciate it. I wanna go to a class now. Yes, I'd love that. I'll be the only guy. There might be one or two others. Yeah, I gotta find out. I'll be the only guy. There might be one or two others. Yeah. I got a phone number.

You'll start anyway. I'm sure there's one right around here somewhere. I'll tell you, honestly, the men who come are athletes. Yeah, I'm not surprised. It's a really good, most of them are rock climbers and cyclists and basketball players. We have NBA basketball players doing bar three. So yeah, it's usually the athletic bunch that can work through the anxiety of,

oh gosh, they're going to be all women, which is always, you know, it's universally women feel the same way. I'm going to be the only one that looks like this. I'm not going to be coordinated enough, flexible enough. That's every single, I've never met someone that didn't feel that way walking into the studio.

Yeah. All right. Well, I will go and I will report back. Okay. Yeah. All right. Well, I will go and I will report back. Okay. Awesome. So if you're digging on Sadie, you can find a class near you at bar3.com. That's the website, right? B-A-R-R-E 3. And if people want to connect with you, what's the best way? Instagram, Sadie Lincoln. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Good. That's it. All right. We'll come back and talk to me again love to thank you

bye peace and plants bye so so good right do me a favor hit up Sadie on the socials

let her know what you thought of today's conversation she's at Sadie Lincoln on Instagram and at bar3sadie

on Twitter Sadie S-A-D-I-E. And be sure to check out the many links and resources in our show notes on the episode page to learn more about Sadie. If you'd like to support the work we do here on the show, subscribe, rate, and comment on it on Apple Podcasts or Spotify for all you Android people, or, and both is better, YouTube for the visually inclined. Share the show or your favorite episodes with friends or on social media.

I dig all the screen grabs that get spread around Instagram. And you can always support us on Patreon at richroll.com forward slash donate. Thank you to my team for all the hard work that went into producing today's show. Jason Cammiello for audio engineering, production, show notes, and interstitial music. Blake Curtis and Margo Lubin for videoing and editing the visual version of the show. I appreciate all you guys. Thank you for the love. I will see you back here next week with an incredible conversation,

the return of ultra athlete and queen of Epic Five herself, Mel Urie, to talk about her insane, insane feat conquering the absolutely bananas, inhuman Uberman triathlon. It's quite a tale. Here's a little taste to take you out. And until then, move your body, elevate your spirit, eat plants, put peace into the world, and take care of yourself. The way that I pick races is, does it excite me? Does it scare me? And this definitely,

you know, excited me to, there's no females who've done it. It looks like an absolutely incredible challenge. And it terrified me. I didn't know if I was going to be able to finish it. So I kind of fit my criteria to give it a go. I mean, before this, I developed the belief and I still believe it that there actually is no limits to what humans can do. It's only the limits that we put on ourselves, like physically, mentally, what we think that we're capable of. But I honestly believe that, you know, if you put your mind to it and physically you're able to, then there actually is no limits to what we think that we're capable of. But I honestly believe that, you know, if you put your mind to it and physically you're able to, then there actually is no limits to what we can do.

Anything I'm starting, I'm finishing, no matter which way or else I'm ending up in hospital and it's the crew pulling me off the course. So I guess, you know, back to what I do, like if something scares you, if something excites you, then move towards it. You know, if that's a goal that you're setting two, three years in advance, I completely relate.

That's exactly what I do. But, you know, just make steps to move towards that end goal. Thank you.