The Rich Roll Podcast - Straight Edge For Life: Punk Icon Toby Morse On Positivity, Parenting & Plant-Based Living

Episode Date: February 26, 2024

Don’t forget the struggle, the streets, or your roots, and resist selling out—such is the message from today's guest, Toby Morse. Toby, the frontman of the hardcore punk band H2O and host of the One Life One Chance podcast, is here to dispense a rebellious prescription of Positive Mental Attitude (PMA). Inspired by the 1988 Lower East Side transgressive punk rock scene, Toby formed H2O, synonymous with Straight Edge and PMA communities. Committed to a plant-based, drug, and alcohol-free lifestyle, Toby defies societal norms in the music and tattooed subcultures. Celebrating individuality, he champions misfits, spreading hope for positive change among the youth.  Our conversation explores the profound significance of friendship, fatherhood, and the transformative journey within the hardcore punk movement. Toby advocates for a non-conformist lifestyle, aligning with his passion for animal rights and fostering positivity amidst societal challenges and social media acrimony. We delve into Toby's fitness regimen, cold plunging, and the pursuit of authenticity in podcasting. This conversation is uplifting, insightful, and gratifying—an exploration of punk ethos, friendship, and positivity. Show notes + MORE Watch on YouTube Newsletter Sign-Up Today’s Sponsors: Bon Charge:  Use code RICHROLL to save 15% OFF 👉boncharge.com/RICHROLL AG1: Get a FREE 1-year supply of Vitamin D3+K2 & 5 FREE AG1 Travel Packs 👉 drinkAG1.com/richroll Waking Up: Get a FREE month, plus $30 OFF  👉wakingup.com/RICHROLL Roka: Unlock 20% OFF your order with code RICHROLL  👉ROKA.com/RICHROLL This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp: Listeners get 10% OFF their first month 👉 BetterHelp.com/RICHROLL

Toby Morse, my friendship mentor. There's always time for your friends, no matter how busy people are. And so I appreciate all these people that I met who took me under the wing and showed me what it's like to have real friendships. For somebody who maybe doesn't have a lot of familiarity with the punk scene or the hardcore scene, when you say, like, you know, you live this ethos, what is that? Like, how do you put words to that? Being drug free my entire life, not eating animals since 1988. I pride myself on living my

lyrics that I wrote 30 years ago. You truly are one of the most positive people in my life. And I find myself struggling to remain positive about the broader world. Yeah, it's hard because the world is fucked. I'm a fucking human being and I go through things. I get dark. I get sad about the world. How do you maintain that positivity? For me, it's just... We're live, buddy.

Good to see you. You too, man. Thanks for doing this. Of course, man. We hang out all the time, but the fact that you're coming back for the second time, We're live, buddy. Good to see you. You too, man. Thanks for doing this. Of course, man. We hang out all the time, but the fact that you're coming back for the second time, I was reflecting on the first time that you came on the show,

which you just reminded me it was four years ago. Yeah. It seems like yesterday. It also seems like a lifetime ago. The world has changed a lot since then. A lot. A lot's been going on in your life, my life, of course. And it's been really, I just wanna say like upfront,

like it's been incredibly rewarding to have this friendship with you. And I think it's hard as adults to make new friends. Yeah. And I've had my adventures with friendship and lack of friendship. Like I've spent the last decade kind of nose to the grindstone trying to build this thing.

And any extra time that I had was spent with my family and raising kids and all of that. And you lose touch with your good friends. And then that phone feels really heavy. But you came into my life and you're such a relentless like sort of person in terms of like cultivating friendship. Like you're sort of my friendship mentor.

Not that I call you and ask you questions about how to be a good friend, but for me, like you model, you model like how to be a good friend and I've seen your life nourished as a result of that. Like you're always surrounded by friends, you're always going out of your way to help your friends out.

And I know that's like a big kind of theme of your whole life, but I've been privileged to kind of witness that in action. And it's been really impactful to me, man. And so I just wanted to thank you. My life is better for having you in it. Thank you. I mean, I appreciate that

and getting to know you and becoming your friend. And I've always cherished my friendships. I really took them seriously and really care about my friends, especially if I really love a person like I love you and like I love my friends. I always want to check in on them. I always want to hang with them. I know I can't. I sent a text to Brolin a couple of days ago because we're always texting and sending videos.

I'm like, I'm sorry if I'm always trying to hang out because, but I love hanging out with you when we hang out. It's just, we have these great conversations and it's very inspirational hanging out with my friends. And he's like, dude, I appreciate it too. He's like, but he's got three kids. He's got, everybody have lives going on. And I have a lot, I have a family as well.

And sometimes I just forget about that in a sense. I just want to have that time with my friends to hang out. But I know it's not that easy, especially with them so far away, but so close. Yeah. Like, but yeah, I mean, I've always been like that. I wrote songs about that. I don't have, it seems like I do have a lot of friends,

but there's a small, there's a small amount of friends who are like my close friends. And I consider you one of them. You know what I mean? Someone I can talk to about anything. And when I hang out, you don't have to hang out all the time to be close,

but when we actually, when we hang out together, it's awesome. Yeah, well, you have this posse. Like every time I meet up with you in town, it's Chappelle, it's you, it's Derek. Yeah, I got them with- You guys like hold court at whatever vegan restaurant. It used to be our boy Jared's place, Taco Vega,

and that went under, and then we moved to Green Table. Yeah. But I don't, you know, like, I don't make trips into town that often. I know. For people that don't know, I live on the complete other side of town and with traffic here, it's like,

it could be an hour and a half just to drive from my house to yours to the point where you're like, are we still friends? It's like, bro, you can come out to Calabasas anytime you want. I know, I know. The thing is I don't own a car and I don't drive on highways.

I know, and you live in Los Angeles, which is that is like no small feat. I would take a bird, no. I walk, I run, I take bird scooters, take Ubers. I'm living like I live in New York City. I walk to everything. I've created this, I stay in my zone. You have a little blue zone.

Yeah, now that I have like the little compound in my house, I have my Pico spa crew. Like I keep everything, I just stay in my zone. You have a little blue zone. Yeah, now that I have like the little compound in my house at my Pico spa crew, like I keep everything, I just stay in my area. You know what I mean? Yeah, the PMA zone. PMA zone, but like, yeah, I never driven on highways. I brought, I don't know, it's weird.

It's a whole other story, but yeah, I don't know. You mentioned Brolin, you're talking about Josh Brolin. That guy is like your biggest fan. Like half his social media is dedicated to promoting your podcast. It's unbelievable. I love him. I do.

Will you tell the story about how you guys met? Cause that's an incredible story. She was almost like eight or nine years ago coming out of Crossroads. And I was with my friend, he has a low rider. And we came out and Josh was with his wife, Catherine, taking photos of her in front of the low rider. And we had this brief moment just saying hi.

We barely said each other's name. Nice to meet you. That was it. And then, I don't know, like the next day or two, like he followed me on social media. I followed him back. Totally some random moment, some random moment. And he sent me that picture the other day.

It was the first time we met. It was a picture of that car. Just, I never, obviously I knew who he was. He wasn't coming to Crossroads. It was this LA moment, but it was just super like, what's up? And then it just happened. And like, he's just a real one. He's just like a A-list Hollywood actor who's the most humble, punk rock, ethics, just human being.

You know what I mean? Like, he's just like so authentic and so honest and just, I don't know. I just, cause he's in such as world of Hollywood, but he's not like that. Right. And I think he appreciates you for the realness, and that's returned in kind. Yeah.

Like he's going out of his way to shine a light on you. And clearly he doesn't have to do that, right? Like that's because he has this huge place in his heart for you. Yeah, he's just, he's a solid human, man. He's like one of my close friends out here and just meeting that random time became such a great friendship, just nice.

Yeah, it's cool. Where did this whole thing around friendship kind of crop up for you? Have you just always been this way? The hardcore scene, man, like coming out of a family this whole thing around friendship kind of crop up for you? Have you just always been this way? The hardcore scene, man, like coming out of a family who, you know, my mom was raising three boys on her own after my dad passed and going to my first punk rock show

and feeling this community, this kind of family that I didn't have at home because my mom was so busy, she wasn't there that much. And being part of this crazy, dysfunctional, outcast, weirdo family of punk rock. I really was, I just like gravitated towards it. And then moving to New York and being part of this incredible scene

where it's like the New York family and we have a song called Family Tree and all these people taking me under their wings, giving me that tough New York love and like just showing me, I became pretty much like a man. I moved to New York when I was 18. You know, I never that tough New York love and like just showing me I became like pretty much like a man I moved to New York when I was 18 you know I never been to New York City I got dropped up at CBGB's I'm part of this like tough kind of hard skinhead scene and I'm this like

little naive positive skateboard kid and um yeah just the whole friends family thing people were looking out for each other that's one of our biggest songs is five-year plan with that, with those lyrics. And so I've always appreciated that because that, that time in my life, when I was part of that scene, got to move to New York, it changed me forever. And so I appreciate every single person, every single peer and legend and ball breaker and all these people that I met who took me under the wing and show me what it's like to have real

friendships. So I've always been like that my whole life with everything. I take it seriously. You know what I mean? There's always time for your friends and how busy people are. You know what I mean? And I appreciate people that take the time,

even just to call or just whatever. But also you, when I said that to you, I was like, maybe I was breaking your balls, but like, I know you're busy. I see you traveling everywhere. You know what I mean? Like, but I just really missed you. You like, I know you're busy. I see you traveling everywhere. You know what I mean? Like, but I just really missed you. You know what I mean?

Like, so yeah. I appreciate that. And here we are. When you live in a place like New York City, that almost happens to you. And I think Los Angeles is very different. It can be an extremely lonely place, right? Totally.

You have to make that kind of effort if you wanna stay in touch with friends or cultivate those friendships because it doesn't just happen by chance. You do. In New York, it was like, yo, we're gonna meet up at this show Friday night and your friends will be there.

Here it's like, let's do lunch, let's do this, let's talk about this and it never happens. You know what I mean? It's just like- It's the weirdest thing. So old. And it's not the people, like all those people, myself included, if I go to New York, then suddenly you're like available and you're good to go.

And like, oh, what are you doing right now? And you go and you do it because everything is so accessible. Like I can get to that place in 10 minutes. It's a driving thing, I think, man, for sure. Cause you can just walk and meet people all throughout the night, three different people in New York,

if you want it one night. But yeah, the California thing. Yeah, that's tricky. It is kind of a lonely place. Especially when I first moved here for the first two years, I was like, I didn't want to move here in the first place, but my wife was like, we, that's tricky. It is kind of a lonely place, especially when I first moved here. For the first two years, I was like, I didn't wanna move here in the first place, but my wife was like, we're moving to California.

But yeah, but then you find your people. I mean, a lot of people I know are even from California that I hang out with, a lot of transplants. Well, I mean, this is a city of transplants, you know, for sure. Who's really from here? You mentioned the hardcore scene in New York back in the day, you were central to that.

And it feels like a movement that was very much of a particular time, but there's something about that hardcore scene that, that like prevails, right? You said before the podcast, you were at a, you went to suicidal tendencies last night. Like that's still a band. Like these bands are still playing and touring and that community aspect of it is still like a very real thing. And it's also like, it's a young spirit too. Like Mike Muir is like 61 years old going off every single song.

Agnostic Front, Vinny Stigma is 68 years old and killing it. And it's this love of this music and it's like really living these lyrics and it's like doing what you love. It's a combination of all of it. But the crowd last night was very young, which was really cool because they're celebrating a 40 year old album. Um, but yeah, I think, I think playing music and especially hardcore and punk, I don't know. We're like, we're like big kids, man. I think musicians are all big kids.

What do you make of that? The, the, the younger generation getting into it? I think it's awesome. I think that it's super important. I think that especially bands like Gnostic Front and Suicido, they're staples in this culture, punk rock and hardcore. So it's like this Sex Pistols, there's Ramones, there's a Clash, and then these other bands that make the same list.

Like you have to check out these bands. These are like the pioneers. These are the legends. These guys are like some of the blueprints of this music. So I think it's cool that kids are actually going back and checking the history of it, the roots of it. You know what I mean? What's different about now versus then though,

is that to be into that kind of thing then was transgressive, right? You were sort of making a statement about, who you were and who you weren't. Like, I'm not gonna be part of this, this sort of mainstream world is gonna be over there. And I'm gonna find my community in this, kind of collection of misfits and weirdos.

And now it's not really transgressive to be in the punk rock. There has to be another motivation that lures people into that. Yeah, maybe for the bands itself, it's different because they've been doing it so long, but for the kids, this is all new to them too. This could be, that could have been their first show last night in 2023.

Do you know what I mean? It's their first punk show. So there was young kids with Mohawks and like discharge shirts and just kids that looked like throwbacks from the 80s. So I feel like, I don't know, I feel every generation is different, but there's so many young hardcore bands right now.

And the scene's bigger than it has ever been, especially coming out of the pandemic, because everybody was watching videos of these bands, like writing songs or like practicing. And then once everything opened back up, this show is every night. And there's like such a young generation of really, really great hardcore bands.

Including your son who plays drums for you now. Yes. How old is Max now? He's 20. 19, oh, he's 20. Yeah, that's pretty crazy too. Yeah, and so how does he think about the whole world? I mean, he sort of grew up with it, right?

He did grow up with it. What do his peers think about that? Yeah, I mean, he's into like his own bands. He's into his own new hardcore bands. Like he's going to see shows on his own now of bands he's turning me on to. Yeah, it's interesting because obviously he's 20. This band's 30 years old next year.

He grew up going on tour with me. He grew up hearing these songs, but he doesn't really love hardcore as much as people think. He's really finding his own music. He's more into heavier stuff. But yeah, his friends trip out on it because his friends know his dad has this band

but now he's playing drums in it and he's actually an incredible drummer. It's not because he's my son and yeah, it's been really fun with him. It's like a brand new energy in the band. He's like writing the set list. He's like, why don't you guys play this song? This song is great.

And he was adding songs into our set list. So we're like a reborn band actually. Yeah, I mean, I think when you did the podcast the first time, he was about to go out with you for the first time. And that was sort of just an experiment or he was gonna stand in, but now he's like in the band. Now he's in the band.

Now we're gonna like write songs together. We're gonna record something. Yeah, which is really, it's very surreal. Like sometimes when I'm playing on stage, I look back and I'm like, oh, that's just Max, my son. Like he's on stage, but like, holy shit. Like I made that kid. Like, it's like, it's crazy.

Like trying to separate, like he's killing it right now. We sound so good. My band's so happy. And yeah, I don't know how long it's gonna last. I don't know what, you know, he's doing his own thing, but like right now it's awesome, man. When was the band formed again? December, I have a tattoo on my hand, December 30th.

Because you can't remember. December 30th, 1994. 94, that's a long time, man. It's freaking crazy. And to like be a band and like not have millions of records sold, not have hit records or radio or MTV or. Right, I mean, that's the interesting thing to me is that you've been able to, it's not like,

oh, let's keep the dream alive. Like you've made a career and built a life for yourself with this band, but it's very much a DIY story. I mean, you had some moments back in the day and whatever, but like for the last good while, it's just you with a hardcore group of, pardon the pun, like hardcore group of like loyal fans who are gonna show up and support you.

And I think it speaks to like this new era that we're in where you don't have to be for everyone and you don't have to sell out huge arenas or whatever. Like you can do your thing and find your people and have like a really great life, like servicing the people who enjoy what you do and not needing it necessarily to be anything bigger or grander than that.

Yeah, I mean, we do it. Obviously we've made some money in our career, but it wasn't a lot, but we also still do it. It's still a pretty much original members. And we do it, we love it. We love each other. We hang out in real life.

People trip out that my band are friends. We text every day. We hang out when we're not on tour. You know, we're like brothers and love each other. We hang out in real life. People trip out that my band are friends. We text every day. We hang out when we're not on tour, you know, we're like brothers. And that's the most important thing to me beyond the band. Yeah, I think that that kind of shows and people know that it's real.

And we're the exact same people we were many, many years ago. Maybe more gray hair, maybe less hair. But yeah, like we still live. I live the, I pride myself on living my lyrics that I wrote 30 years ago that's the same person I'm a big kid

obviously with more responsibilities but this is who I am like punk rock and hardcore and everything like really is embedded in my soul regardless if I maybe not live the most punk rock like I don't know wear shoes that aren't super DIY do you know what I mean not live the most punk rock, like, I don't know, wear shoes that aren't super DIY. Do you know what I mean?

Like all the ethics of it. But yeah, I live this, it's in my blood, it's in my heart, it's a spirit in me. And that's why I think I feel like I may act young or feel young and still love to do what I do because I still believe in it. And I feel like it matters. And I feel like I won't stop playing

until people stop really coming to shows or listening. Like people still care, which is awesome. And for somebody who's listening or watching who maybe doesn't have a lot of familiarity with the punk scene or the hardcore scene, when you say like, you know, you live this ethos, like, what is that? Like, how do you put words to that?

Like, what does that mean? For me, it's this unapologetically being myself forever. For me, you know, being drug free my entire life is a rebellion in itself against the mainstream and against what people expect musicians to be or rock and rollers to be or people who are heavily tattooed kind of lifestyle is supposed to have.

Not eating animals since 1988. Going against the grain, going against society. Not having the nine to five for me, which I respect people who have that. And just doing what I want to do and really having no boss and living the best I can be as a person, a human every day,

and trying to inspire people and make this world a better place. For me, that's my punk rock hardcore-ness, being true to myself, being honest. I never try to be anything else my entire life except for myself. I never try to impress anybody. I never try to be a certain way to fit in.

I've always just been me. Some people don't like that. Some people love it. Yeah, I'm just a happy, hyper high on life kind of human. And sometimes people can be intimidated by that or offended by that. But this is just me.

I just, I've always been like, people that know me, that's who I am. Like I just, I still skateboard. Yeah, I just feel like a kid. I don't know what it is. Maybe it is my lifestyle of not partying and not eating animals, but I work out a lot. And I just, I don't know. I have this spirit inside of me, man. I don't know what it is. Maybe it is my lifestyle of not partying and not eating animals, but I work out a lot.

And I just, I don't know. I have this spirit inside of me, man. I don't know, man. Maybe I'm fucking Peter Pan or some shit. I don't know. I don't know. You definitely have a lot of energy. You're always positive.

You're always enthusiastic. I've never seen you like aggravated or like, you know. But I do get like that. I'll come in hot, like, I'm tired or whatever. And you're like confused. But also for the record, people do think that I'm positive every single day. I'm a fucking human being.

And then I go through things, I get dark, I get sad about the world. I feel a lot of the pain of the world as most people have and are doing lately. But I try to think of the positive. I have a great life. I've been married 27 years. I have an awesome son.

I'm very lucky to have an awesome family and a wife who supports me being a big kid, traveling around with my best friends, playing this fucking crazy music. You know, my wife's a big part of my life, man, who like held me down through many, many fucking years. Moon is super cool. So like, I'm very, like, I'm not gonna, you know,

but also, yeah, things upset me. Things get me mad. But thanks to like exercise and the pl but also, yeah, things upset me. Things get me mad, but thanks to like exercise and the plunge and the sun, all this stuff. It's because I didn't have that last time we talked. I know, we're gonna get into that. We're gonna get into that. But I wanna stick with, I wanna follow through

on this idea of like the DIY life that you built for yourself. Like, are you, so the band tours, you do your thing. You don't really answer to anyone, but you've built this career. I answered to my wife. Yeah, you answered, of course. You have a lot, like merch is a big part

of like kind of the band and what you do. And I think you had told me that like, you package everything and you like, you still do all of that yourself, right? So if you order like something on, you know, from H2O, like a hoodie or whatever, like you're the one who's like putting it in the box. It's for me, I'm answering all the emails.

Where's my merch? Can you change the size? And then when I write back, then it's really like, oh my God, I didn't realize you do this. I do it all. I design it, I put online, I do the pre-orders. My friend Alex picks it up for me sometimes. And I do all the merch and I ship it out. I go to the post office, I print out every label.

I sign the international ones. I put notes in there. I sign people's stuff. And I love that. It's just directly from me to them. I love it and I appreciate it. And it's been going great for years. That's cool.

People now know I do it, but now they can DM me, like, where's my stuff? And like, stressing me out for listeners is that when I say pre-order, that means it's a pre-order. That means it's not ready at this moment. Sometimes I'll get an email the next day, where's my order?

I'm like, it says pre-order. You know, Google pre-order means it could take two or three weeks, especially now everything's backed up since the pandemic. Everything's more expensive. Everything takes a longer time. People have to be more patient coming out of this

because everyone's touring, everybody's making merch and the garments are hard to get different sides. It's really a different world coming out of the pandemic. But be patient. I think I told you at one point. Not to do it. Like, well, just listen, man,

you should focus on the stuff that only you can do. So you can be Toby and you can find somebody else to do this. But I have this sense that you- I love it. Well, you love it, but also I think you probably believe that if you let somebody else handle that for you, it's sort of the beginning of the end.

It's hard to let go. You're, yeah, it's, you've lost like, that there's some, it'll be a chink in the authenticity of what you're trying to do. And part of that is probably true. And part of that is an illusion that might be holding you back. You know what I mean?

Yeah, but I do enjoy it. I enjoy it. I enjoy seeing the same people's names or in the same stuff. I'll write no thank you again. Like, I don't know, I just, I love it. I've saved every letter I've gotten from people in my entire life.

I've written every single person back. I appreciate my life and I appreciate people's support. So it's coming directly from me. Not that it makes it any more special, but I just, I'm very hands-on. Like I'm very DIY. I love just doing it. It doesn't bother me.

And actually when I'm printing out labels and impact, it's really relaxing. I just chill in my office and do it. It's like shut everything down and just, I don't know. I've been doing it forever. I just, I don't know. Yeah. been doing it forever, I just, I don't know. Yeah, so when you were on the show the first time, we went into like your whole kind of coming up story,

backstory and all that. I don't wanna retread that, but I do think it's worth spending a few minutes on the fact that like you've been drug free your entire life, which is amazing. Like you've never taken drugs. You've never had drunk. You never had one beer. No.

Your whole life. Nothing. Smoked a cigarette. No, absolutely not. Chewed tobacco, anything? My mom changed things in the house. So the straight edge thing enters your life at a very young age when you were extremely impressionable

and needed a little bit of guidance. And that ultimately is what led you to New York City, right? But the fact that you have like adhered to this path without wavering for decades, without even dipping your toe in anything, even accidentally is kind of amazing. So scared of it my whole life, probably not anymore because I'm in my fifties,

but yeah, I saw my brothers partying around me. They used me to punk rock. And then I hear this different types of punk rock. Then I hear minor threat song called straight edge. I was like, wow, these guys are aggressive. I can skate to them and I don't actually have to drink or do drugs. It'd be cool.

Fit in, sign me up. 13 years old, sign me up. I'm never going to try anything. I saw my brothers. There was, I was so scared of them when they were high or drinking a beer. My mom was chain smoking. My clothes smell like Virginia Slims my whole life.

Smell like cigarettes, all my clothes going to school. My mom smoked Virginia Slims. I hated cigarettes. Didn't you live, you lived in Maryland for a while, right? Yeah, for high school. St. Mary's? Is that where you went to high school? Yeah, my mom got a job there.

I know that town. Yeah, wow. Went from Rhode Island to there. But yeah, just the timing was perfect for me because I was a, wanted to be a pro skater. I was skating to all this aggressive punk. It came, that was like the soundtrack in the 80s was punk and skating and I heard Minor Threat

and that was it. Then I found other bands after that, the same ideals and also Animal Rights came in as well. But yeah, never tried anything. And then there was really no peer pressure in high school. I was like hyper break dancing, skateboarding kind of guy. I was the prom king. You were prom king?

Like you're the kid who like everybody liked, it didn't matter. You know, like you transcended the clicks, right? I guess, yeah. I could see you just going toggle switching between groups with no problem. Yeah, I was going to cake parties, just like drinking soda and stuff.

And they knew I was like the kind of weird kid in the school. Nobody tried to pressure me. The pressure kind of came when I left school and got in a band. I was with all these other bands backstage and traveling. There was drugs and there was drinking everywhere. But there was really no pressure. People was like, you haven't grown out of that? My barber, who I've had for like 30 years, still asked me, have you had a drink yet?

I was like, no, it's never going to happen. It's not something that's going gonna happen all of a sudden. You know what I mean? Like it's never, yeah, it's crazy cause my son's like that too and he's 20. Like he never tried anything and there's no pressure. He just sees how I am. He's hyper too.

And the no animal diet comes in with the entrance of bad brains, right? Like that- Bad brains. Youth of today, gorilla biscuits. Right. Bad Brains, Youth of Today, Gorilla Biscuits, Soulcide, even KRS-One had a song called My Philosophy. So 88- Were you roommates with Gorilla Biscuits? Yes, in Queens.

I lived in the closet. I lived in Alan Cage's closet. It was a walk-in closet. There was Sib Walter and Alan Cage and I got to sing backup songs on Start Today, which is an incredible hardcore record classic. And then that song called Cats and Dogs, Thou Shall Not Kill.

And that really just, I mean, they would listen to Meat Is Murder, like the Smith's record in the house. But I didn't really need a lot of meat growing up. My mom had like her amazing meatloaf. That was the same thing she pushed every week, some actually dry meatloaf. I had fish sticks once in the microwave. There was really not a lot of meat in my house, no steaks. We couldn't afford that.

So when I got to New York and got into the animal rights stuff and then living with Gula Biscuits, I was like, it was just a no brainer. It was just all my friends and this is what we're doing. We have like the PETA videos at the punk shows and the pamphlets. It was just like, it was great. And I stuck with that too since then, man.

Right, so it was vegetarian for a while. Yeah, for a while, yeah. The full vegan thing came much later. Little bit later, yeah. It's pretty brutal like wearing canvas shoes in Manhattan. Yeah. Like to the blizzards and stuff, like all the sacrifices I've done for the cows and stuff,

like they probably appreciate it. Yeah, there wasn't, there's not, the vegan fashion thing wasn't online yet. Vans were converse in the winter. But yeah, I just, I was part of the whole movement and like was sheltering these other bands and just stuck with it, man. It's interesting how the punk world

and the animal rights activism world like overlap. We were both at an event last week to support Maggie Baird's Support and Feed nonprofit initiative. For those that don't recall, she was on the podcast. She's Phineas and Billie Eilish's mom. She's created this amazing organization where they're providing plant-based meals

to underprivileged neighborhoods. And I think even on like, I've noticed, I don't know if you've seen this, like if you order Uber Eats or Postmates, sometimes when you're checking out, they're like, do you wanna support? And like, it'll say like, do you wanna throw a couple dollars at support and fee?

Oh, that's cool. Which is cool. It's awesome. And I know they show up at all of Billy and Phineas' shows to provide meals, et cetera. They did Coldplay too in Paramore this year. Yeah, that was huge, right? Huge man, yeah, it's so awesome. But I'm bringing that up because at that event,

there's like, there's Moby, like there's a, you know, like that he comes from the same world, that punk world, that straight edge world. So that's just a really interesting, like match of subcultures that unite around this issue. Yeah, it's interesting. I feel like obviously the Smiths, but then I feel like punk rock and hardcore

was some of the first bands, like even in England too as well, like really singing about animal rights back then, putting in their music and then Karius One as well, Dead Prez and other artists. But yeah, for me, I was into that world. So I felt like these were the only bands singing about it. I'm sure there were more,

but it was really like a big part of the movement. Sure animal rights. Well, the straight edge movement has a lot, seems to have a lot in common with the early days of hip hop. Hmm. I don't know about now, how you think about that, but you're kind of a music historian. I mean like public and stuff like that.

You're a big hip hop guy too, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like against the grain kind of rebellious kind of music and singing about things that people, stuff like that, you know, the public enemy. Yeah, yeah, we'll get on productions, Ted Prez, there was so many artists back then that were singing about things

like this conscious way of living and stuff, you know? There wasn't just what everybody else was singing about. Yeah, for sure. Even more now, there's so many vegan hip hop artists and drug-free artists talking about that in their music. It's really awesome to see. Well, there's certainly like a whole new generation of young musicians who like care about wellbeing

in a way that like would have been totally bizarre, you know, not too long ago, right? Like, you know, even like, you know, like big hit makers like Mike Posner, you know, like he just wants to talk about sprouting and like his cold, you know, like his cold plunging and stuff like that. It's so cool though.

It is, it's great. It's so cool though. It is, it's great. It's interesting though, yeah. Like how do we live well? How do we live fully embodied? How do we self-actualize as artists as opposed to self-immolate and like self-destruct? Yeah, and I definitely feel like we said a few minutes ago,

like the Billy's a big part of that, like with her platform and having like vegan, Nike's coming out and vegan Gucci and just all the different things she's trying to change and spread awareness like with her platform and having like vegan Nike's coming out and vegan Gucci and just all the different things she's trying to change and spread awareness to use her platform. There's not many artists that are that big that use their platform for good for the planet. You know what I mean?

It's amazing. It's huge role model. Powerful. Kids. Yeah. She is a powerful creator. Yeah. That young lady. And it's awesome.

It's a family too. It is cool. Like what Patrick and Maggie, you know, did with their family and these two beautiful artists that are their children who they still like, they go on tour with them still, right? Still travel with them. And the dad rolls with the crew too.

The unit is like so tight. They support each other. And like what Billy has matured into and like Phineas winning Grammys, like it's and recognizing like the power that they wield with their platform and then leveraging that to do good things for the things that they care about is really,

you know, inspirational. There's not many artists I can really think about actually do that level at this point. I mean, yeah, yeah, it's awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's awesome. Let's talk about your like journey with wellbeing. Okay. So when we first met,

like you're a generally healthy guy, eating plant-based and all that kind of stuff. But at some point you decided you needed to level up and like enter like a whole new world of stuff that you've been exploring, you know? I know and I think- Including running, right? Like you showed up in your ons,

like you're all about running. I'd like to think I played a small part in trying to inspire that. 100%. But I remember not too long ago, we were at Andrew Huberman's house and I watched you do your first like sauna cold plunge. Yes.

And now you're like a plunging maniac. Your whole social media is just you in a cold plunge and then the people you have over for the podcast, you make them do the whole thing. Yeah, let's go back to that. So yeah, I did the plunge for the first time at Urban's house with you, an ice plunge, which is different because I feel like it's two different things.

The ice just sitting in there and then the cold plunge actually sprays, puts water on you. You know what I mean? It's like moving all the time. And I had to do it in front of you two who were like the Kings of this. I was so scared. I was like trying not to shake, but I did it. And it just, I don't know.

It was my first time doing it. It felt amazing, man. I just, I don't know what it was, but I've been seeing you guys do it for a while. And you're a big inspiration, obviously. Yeah. And Josh has like his own one too and Huberman. And so I did that and I just, I got obsessed with it.

You know, I just set a goal that like, I'm gonna sell my car, I'm gonna get my son a car and then I'm gonna build this thing in my backyard with a plunge and the sauna. And I did it, man. It took like a while, but like now it's my everyday. I love it. It's just, it's a game changer.

And then I started running more, my friend Alexlex as well running and my friend hakim um thank you i met him through you as well and so yeah we just started running and just getting more serious about it and doing weight training to balance just running and just yeah i just i'm upset i love it i want to i want to do my first uh half marathon soon. Actually do a marathon next year. That's cool. Yeah. That's cool. You're a big inspiration on that, man. I ran here and there, you know?

I mean, I think it's, listen, you sold your car so you could make that dream a reality for yourself. And I remember you having like some discomfort around like doing something for yourself. You're like, it felt indulgent to spend a bunch of money on something for your own wellbeing or happiness, right? And so I think that you have earned the right to have that. And you certainly like, listen,

it's not like it just lies fallow in your backyard. Like you're in it all the time. And I think it's improved your life to have that. So I hope that you feel good about investing in yourself that way. At first I felt, yeah, the guilt and the thing about it, but now I'm just like, no, I love it. I sleep better.

Just everything about it's incredible, man. And I'm so crazy. Like I dream of plunge. Yes, I clean it once a month. I keep everything spotless. I'm a freak about it. I love it. I have my gym in my garage.

It's just, it's perfect, dude. I feel way better. And so for somebody who's never done that before, like what is the difference? Like, I feel like you have a lot of energy. Yes. Maybe it's hard for you to go to sleep at night. Like you're just, you're spinning, right?

Like, I just know, like if I do like that kind of, you know, protocol like in the late afternoon or early evening. Like I just, it calms me down. I sleep better at night. I just feel better in my body. There's definitely like an anti-depressant aspect to it. For sure. Yeah, and I feel like going in the plunge

is the only thing that keeps me calm. It's so crazy because I seen so many people have different reactions trying it for the first time, like jumping out, screaming and stuff. But I can just get in there and chill to the point where I did like 13 minutes once. Did you? Yeah, I'm like, yeah.

You set it, where do you, what do you set the temp at? 39. You do? So all the way. All the way. And I think somebody hit me up, I don't know if it was Josh or Andrew, somebody said, I said, you need to chill.

I see what you're doing. I've done that before. Like you're pushing yourself. It's not about how long you do. Yeah, but I did that for myself because I wanna see how long I could do it. But I said, you need to chill. I see what you're doing. I've done that before. Like you're pushing yourself. It's not about how long you do. Yeah, but I did that for myself cause I wanna see how long I could do it. But I don't do that no more. Now I do a couple of times every time I do it.

But yeah, it keeps me calm. I love it. I zone out, I put some Sinead O'Connor on. That's like my go-to music. I just zone out there. I love it. You're wearing a Sinead O'Connor hoodie right now. One of my favorites.

Orange for Halloween. Yeah, I had to wear it. What is the whole Sinead O'Connor thing? I just feel like she's one of the most punk rock artists that was in the pop world. Things she sang about and spoke about, a lot of it came true. She was canceled before canceled culture

for speaking her mind. Everything that happened became true. They never brought her back. It's a really sad story. The documentary she has out now is incredible. When they weren't putting hip-hop as a genre i think it was on the grammys she did a public enemy logo on the side of her head because public enemy boycotted the show as well um just her hip-hop and her reggae roots and just her story man just like shaving ahead not trying to be like stereotypical pop

star not trying to be pretty um i pop star, not trying to be pretty. I just think she's a bad-ass man. And like, I've been repping her for years. I have her eyes tattooed in the back of my legs for like 20 years. And it was just really sad, especially with that doc had just come out and then she passed.

I know, I haven't seen it yet. His son had just passed too. Julie watched it, she was very moved by it. And you know, she was, it's hard to understand like how courageous she was at that time. Talk about using your platform. She got annihilated.

Annihilated. Talk about, imagine doing like somebody like a Billy, right now it's speaking about stuff like that too. She was doing that. She was as big as she ever was. It's crazy, man. Ripping up the post picture, all that stuff. Just like crazy, man.

Super punk, did not give a shit about getting cancer or anything. I mean, maybe she did later on in life, I'm not sure, but just seeing like how it ended and stuff, it's just, and her son passing and stuff like a year ago. I was wrecked by this, man. Like I didn't, I was wrecked by it because I listened to her all the time still,

you know? And I had done this post where I was like, bucket list, Sinead O'Connor. I did a post about people damning me from Ireland. I worked at a record label. People were trying to help me like track her down for like a minute. And then three months later, like she passed.

Yeah, I just thought she was amazing. Yeah, I know that. That was like your ultimate dream podcast guest, right? But I didn't know where she was. It was a point where it was on the news. She was in a hotel in New Jersey or something. Like I was always trying to keep tabs on her. You know what I mean?

Like, I don't know. I just thought she was so, and then the doc came out, I was like, wow, man, this is beautiful and really sad, you know? So yeah, I think she's one of the most punk rock, probably female artists that we'll see, that we've seen in the spotlight too. Yeah.

So yeah, man, rest in peace Sinead. Back to the protocol, the Toby protocol. In addition to the sauna and the plunge and the running and all of that, like you also like really up level your nutrition. Like you've been plant-based forever, but there's being plant-based and then there's like really being intentional

about being a healthy plant-based person. And that's a world of difference. Yeah, I went like gluten-free like a year and a half ago. I thought being vegan would means not to get real personal, but go in the bathroom all the time and having a weird stomach and feeling bloated. And I did an 18 day juice cleanse and started reintroducing stuff to my body. And the gluten wasn't cutting it. The fake meats,

all that stuff. And I just cut it out and it changed everything. My wife cannot believe it. I'm going to be honest. I used to carry toilet paper in my pocket. I had serious stomach issues. I had Modi-Medi on me when I travel, the craziest life of stomach issues. I never got tested for it. And maybe it's maybe something more than that, but ever since I cut the gluten out, everything's normal, I'm not bloated no more. I feel lighter, I eat totally way cleaner.

I fed it greens just every day, just everything. Like I just, strictly healthy. You look good, man. Like how old are you, 52? 53. 53. Yeah. Like your skin looks good. Thank you, man. Yeah, man. Like how old are you? 52? 53. 53. Yeah. Like your skin looks good. Thank you, man. Yeah, man. It's working, right?

It's the diet and the lifestyle, sure. And the sauna and all, that's good for your skin too. Yeah. Yeah. Plunge. How old were you the last time you had meat? Probably 1987. I don't know what it could have been, but something. Yeah, like before I moved to New York for sure.

Cause I worked at Subway. I wasn't even to meet them though, but yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, that's OG status, 87. I actually worked at Subway. Wait, wait, let me rewind this. I went to New York and I came back for like a summer for some reason. And my first tattoo is a Grilla Biscuits tattoo.

And it says, meat is murder. And I got a job at Subway. I was like 18 or 19. And they made me, they ordered me a long sleeve Subway shirt because they didn't want me promoting vegetarianism at Subway. So I was the only person with a long sleeve, this is a true story, with a long sleeve Subway shirt

to cover my meat is murder tattoo. And I hate, I worked for a couple months. I was like touching the meat and so I was like, I can't do this. Like, then I went to landscaping or something, yeah. So when people say, how do you get your protein or how do you make it work? Or, you know, you're gonna wither away

and all that kind of stuff. Like, how do you- Just beans and rice. How do you like, but you must get asked that a lot as somebody who's notable and even people who are curious who just honestly don't know the answer to that. I mean, there's supplements, there's everything you can do. Now in 2023, there shouldn't even be a question.

Do you know me, plant-based is so popular and everywhere. It's like, you just Google what you need to get, but I'm like, I'm quinoa, I'm kale, I'm beans, I'm tofu, a lot of tofu. Yeah, vegetables, greens. I'm always doing juice cleanse, nuts. I told you I was, I'm in molasses now because molasses have this crazy high iron in B12,

which I never knew. Do you know that about molasses? No, I didn't know that. I mean, they're not the tastiest things, but. Yeah, I can't. I couldn't tell you like the last time I had molasses. Yeah, I can't, I couldn't tell you like the last time I had molasses. Yeah, I've probably never had them till now.

Blackstrap molasses? Yeah. Where do you even get it? Just at the grocery store. You go to the whole, the like natural foods, like macrobiotic store? No, it's just organic molasses, yeah. But I try to do so many supplements

that that greens helps a lot. And what do you do when you're on tour and traveling? I bring the greens and packs. There's Happy Cow, thank you Happy Cow because every city, state, country, you can find a vegan or vegetarian restaurant. Whoever created Happy Cow should get crazy award. It's a game changer.

Yeah, I use that every time I travel. Yeah, there's restaurants in every city, everywhere, man. Like Hungary, striving, Poland, Berlin's the Mecca. Like going to Europe is incredible. Berlin is the vegan capital of the universe. They have vegan grocery stores. Yeah, vegans. Yeah.

Vegans. It's so good. You grocery shop up top and eat at the bottom. I mean, it's just a different world. People shouldn't, I mean, now it's just like, that question's not really been asked in a long time, maybe, but yeah, I mean, that's just a different world. People shouldn't, I mean, it's now it's just like, that question's not really been asked in a long time, maybe, but yeah, I mean, that's people's main concern. Iron, just all this stuff.

It's like, do you take supplements too? Take athletic greens and I do supplement. I think supplements have their place, responsible supplementation. And I think even no matter how well you're eating, everybody has certain levels of deficiencies. All you have to do is get a blood test. If you do a broad enough panel,

you'll realize you're gonna be lower in some areas and higher in others. And especially as you get older, I think there's a lot of good reasons to do that. And I think people will use that to say, well, your diet must be insufficient or incomplete if you're supplementing, but I don't care what diet you're on. Like I think supplementation has its place.

Not as a replacement for trying to get your nutrients, those should come from the foods that you eat, but we don't all eat perfectly every single day. And if you wanna be optimal, then I think that having your blood work done regularly and paying attention to where you're lacking and addressing that is an easy fix. Yeah, the greens definitely help.

It's a game changer in the morning, just have that. And then know that just in case that day, you don't get them in. Right, shout out Athletic Greens. This is like a sponsor fest. Shout out Athletic Greens, shout out Momentous sponsor fest. Shout out Athletic Greens. Shout out Momentous. Shout out Plunge. You know, the cold plunge.

Shout out Ryan. We both have our plunges. Great partner for us. And I know- But these are all things that help you life. For you. And I came and did your podcast with him. Yeah, man.

So lots of love here all the way around. But these are products that are like life-changing. They're good products. It's sort of like, that's why they're sponsors of the show. Of course. It's not like just a thing. It's like, like yourself, I'm very conscious of the partners that we work with.

I want them to be things that I'm excited about and that I use. For sure. And also for people that can't afford a plunge, like a cold shower or just putting ice in your bath. And I see people on tour creating their own like buckets that they're going in after stage with a trash bag and ice, like whatever works, man.

That's your DIY. You're seeing that when you go, when you like bands are doing that backstage? Yes, yes. Who was I talking to? Oh, Travis got a little ice thing he does before and after the show. Interesting.

But you can get these ones that are inflatable and they come on tour and stuff. So does Travis have like a plunge? Yeah, I'm a plunge. As part of his rider? No, right. That travels with him when he's playing? It's a portable thing though, for sure, yeah.

That's interesting. I think a lot of bands are doing that. Really? Yeah. That's cool. Yeah, I had a band on the other day, the guys are like, yeah, we do it all the time. There's a lot of bands now that are going to like spas

during the day and doing the sauna and the cold plunge. It's crazy. Everybody's being so conscious of like mental health and everything and physical. And because on tour, it's not the most glamorous thing, man. You're like grinding, you're getting no sleep. Like when I go on tour, this LA fantasy diet is out the window. Like it's a survival for me.

Whatever I can get each day and get that sleep, it's so important. And the fact that younger bands are like focused on that, even if it's a trend that they're doing the ice in the sauna, it's great. You know what I mean? Because this has been a long journey, like living this way and playing music,

jumping around and stuff. It's cool. I mean, I think the, you know, I can't imagine being on the road and being in a bus and city to city to city and getting in at weird hours and having your sleep disrupted. Yeah, van like, I just know for myself when I'm traveling a fair amount

and I arrive somewhere new and it's late, like it's already past dinner time, like pretty much everything's closed. And so what do I do? I open up, like I see what's on the, at the hotel on the, you know, the room service is terrible. Then I open up Postmates or Uber Eats or whatever. And the problem is that there are options,

but they're generally like- Closed. Well, the stuff that's open are like vegan, like cheeseburgers and fries. It's like, so it's junk food. You know what I mean? Like you can get, you can eat quote unquote vegan, but you might as well go to Wendy's or McDonald's.

But we're not in LA, so it's just, you know what I mean? So it's like, well, I have to eat and I end up eating shitty food more than I would care to admit. We got into DC like one in the morning, like two weeks ago and we were starving. We sat in the lobby and we ordered Domino's pizza and I had a gluten-free cheeseless pizza,

like at two in the morning. It's basically just gluten-free bread. It was so brutal. With like red sauce on it. I'm like drinking like a Coca-Cola. I'm like, what am I doing? Like this was like two in the morning. I would never do that here, but I was starving. I woke up the next day,

I feel like all guilty and weird about it. I'm like, I'm gonna survive, man. I'm gonna eat though. It's so important though. You mentioned mental health. You're the PMA guy, just born and bred positive. I don't know how that works. Me either, I don't know either, man.

It's crazy. And I opened up this podcast by saying that, lots happened since we first talked. And four years ago, the world was very different. And now we're on the other side of a lot of insanity. And now there's a whole new level of insanity, especially on social media channels, the discourse, a lot of acrimony, a lot of shouting and yelling

and signaling to in groups and all of that. And- It's dark. As good as my life is and as positive as my disposition is and as grateful as I am to have the life that I have, I find myself struggling to remain positive about the broader world and kind of what I'm noticing transpire. And that's not specific to any particular issue,

just in general, like when you log on to social media platform of your choice, I have to like log off right away. Like I just, I literally start to get depressed as I scroll and kind of see how people are interacting with each other. So how do you do that? And like, how do you maintain that positivity?

I think I live in a bubble a lot of the times, as far as like what's happening on the world, that stuff I can't control or fix. Even if I post about something, is that really gonna help? It could help or should I do it or not do it? And just seeing how the world is. And I do feel,

and that's the thing that makes me sad is stuff that I can't fix or can't help, that I feel the world's pain, especially with things that are going on the past couple of years, shit that passed for a long time, especially now though. And like, yeah,

maybe I just scroll by and look at it or read about it. I got deep into it the other day about what's going on now. And it was really having, I've been talking to a lot of my friends about it who come from there and different places in the world and just trying to understand it. And yeah, it's hard because the world is fucked and the world is a negative, dark place. And I do my best to be a good person in this world and try to help people and inspire people and live a good life. And you want the whole world to be like that too and be conscious of how they treat people.

It is frustrating. Yeah, it's hard. Now I'm getting dark about it. Yeah, it's hard to scroll through that things because social media is a dark place. And if you get on that spiral on there and people fighting in the streets, you see so much anger right now and

and uh violence and this tent this tension since coming out of the pandemic it seems like it's gotten and even more magnified with so everything's magnified from social media if there was no social media i think the past couple years be way less stressful than it ended up being it's just everything's on there in your face all day long yeah you know especially we had a president who was on twitter talking crazy shit. Like it was just a crazy time. Then now what's happening in the world, it's like, what can we do?

I mean, we can talk about it. We can get people on the podcast to talk about things about it or who are living there or being part of things. But yeah, it's frustrating. And I do get dark and I do, maybe that's when I go for a run or maybe sometimes I would zone out

and I'll put my phone away when we look at it because it's hard to digest it all. Especially when you feel like kind of powerless. And we have these platforms to talk about it and try to help things. But like,

if you're not really there in the midst of it, in the mix, do you know what I'm saying? It's like, I don't know. It's hard, man. I guess I do kind of,

I know about things. I try to keep my ear to what's happening or at the same time, I kind of just keep it moving my zone and having these amazing conversations with people. Yeah, I mean, you truly are one of the most positive people in my life. And I've watched you in the world,

like interact with people, everybody you meet, you meet with love, compassion, non-judgment. You meet people where they're at. Like you like all different kinds of people, especially like when it comes to music where it's like, you're only allowed to like this kind or that kind, like you like everything. You love Coldplay.

And like, you like to, you know, all the bands that are not supposed to be cool. Like you're the first person to say like, you know, these guys are amazing or whatever. Like there's just a really beautiful kind of welcoming energy that you have. And it's clear that like you've just been a fantastic dad. Like I look at Max,

this kid walks into a room and just owns it. Like he's so like charismatic and sure of himself in a healthy way. Like he knows who he is. He'll look you in the eye. He talks to everybody. He's not intimidated by anyone. And he just has this like really kind of joyful spirit

about him as well. And I was like, man, you guys did a good job. Thank you, man. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, the communication is key. My son traveled with us since he was very, very young. We've always had an open relationship with my son, talk about everything he wanted to talk about

and unconditional love. And probably, you know, for me, I didn't grow up with a dad. So everything was new to me, just learning along the way and stuff. And my wife's an incredible mother. And yeah, he's just a very well-rounded, open-minded. He's been all around the world, seen different cultures, you know? He's been everywhere.

And I grew up around a lot of awesome musicians and people, and I'm very lucky, man, especially a kid growing up in Hollywood, too. Yeah, I know. There's so many different things, temptations, there's all kinds of stuff. Yeah, all around, right, all around. Like he went to a big high school too.

Like it could have gone any number of different ways. Yeah, yeah, it's true. He went to Larchmont for a while, then he went to Hamilton High, which is a great school music program. The guys, the Interrupters went there, the three brothers. They have like a whole like sort of recording studio. I think that high school has its own label.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, they do. Yeah, my son's band, okay, my son's band Ren was on that record label. Wow. It was signed to the label. And then one of the students was their manager at the school. That's crazy.

It's like an Adidas sound lab there or something. Yeah, yeah, that's what I was thinking of. Yeah, so yeah, it's a really great school. He learned how to play the piano really well. He knows how to read music. It was a really wonderful movie. He was kind of sheltered in the Larchmont world. And he's like, I wanna go.

He basically said eighth grade, I wanna go to a school where there's bullies and lockers. That's what he wanted. So I went to a real school. Yeah, I mean, Hamilton is that, you know, like that's a big place. It's a really big campus, man. There's kids from all around the whole city

that would go there and stuff. And yeah, man, really happy. He's really good kid, man. And how did he end up in the band? Like, what is it like? I know he's like modeling. He wants to be, he, really happy. He's a really good kid, man. And how did he end up in the band? Like, what is it? Like, I know he's like modeling. He wants to be, he's pursuing acting.

Yeah, he's doing all that, yeah. So the band just happened. I mean, he would play one song with us really long time. He played a song called Nothing to Prove. He'd come up on stage since he was like nine years old. And then fast forward, my drummer, Todd Friend, shout out to Todd Friend. He had a problem with his shoulder. He had a a couple surgeries where it was hard for him to perform

and the timing just happened with my son to jump up and play a gig with us because of that and it just continued it's been continuing since that for like two years now and we still see my drummer he comes out to the show in New York he sang a song with us it's all love it's it's perfect man

yeah so I don't know how long it's gonna last right you just take it while you can get it right He's out to the show in New York. He sang a song with us. It's all love. It's perfect, man. Yeah. So I don't know how long it's gonna last. Right, you just take it while you can get it, right? Like what a cool thing to like play music with your son. Yeah, I'm gonna be cool next year. I don't know. You know what I mean? He might join another band.

There's nothing like, there's nothing you can do to be cool for your kid. Doesn't matter. You can front like a cool band or whatever. It's still gonna be, you know. We'll always be cool, I hope, you know. No, I mean, you'll be cool with each other, but you always think like,

I mean, I can't imagine a cooler dad than you, but like no matter what you do or who you are, like your kid is always gonna on some level, and it's supposed to be this way. Like you're not as cool as you think, you know. Yeah, that's definitely true. And it's meant to be that way. Cause they're the next generation

and they got their own ideas about what's cool. He'll check me once in a while on different things. It's stupid or that's cringe or that's silly. Something I say. Yeah, what do you do that's cringe to him? I don't know. I don't know. He said that to me before that about something or something

or even before if I post something, he's like, you sure wanna post that? But he'll check me on stuff. I like that though. There is a certain thing when you're that age where most people like in their early twenties, it's all about like kind of cynicism and irony. Like nothing's cool, everything's lame, all of that.

And you're a very earnest person. And I feel like Max is pretty earnest. Like he doesn't strike me as that person who's like, everything sucks or all those bands suck. Like he's like, you know, he's pretty enthusiastic about the world. He is, he has a good life, but you better definitely have that enthusiasm.

He's definitely had a wonderful life. He still lives at home, he's 20 years old. It's awesome. How long is that gonna go for? I don't know, man. There's a lot of kids now, it seems like to be like in this generation, they're still living at home kind of late, it's interesting.

They don't go to college. It's so expensive. It's so expensive. I don't know where he would live in Los Angeles. Yeah, I mean, that idea, I mean, our generation, it was like, get out the door, you know? And it doesn't matter if you have to go into debt or run up credit cards, like you're not staying at home.

Yeah. But to me, that's insane. It's so expensive out there. And I don't want my kids to be running up a bunch of debt or spending money unnecessarily if they don't have to, because that then ends up, you know, sort of impinging on the decisions that they can make about their life and the freedoms that they have.

And if I can, you know, provide a buffer by just like, you know, they can hang out at home a little bit longer, I'm more than happy to do it. Well, our boys had moved out. That's right. They were living in Echo Park doing the music thing. Yes. And then when the pandemic hit, I was like, don't pay rent in a tiny little apartment

that you're stuck in, like just come home. Yeah. So they're still home and that's fine. And they're working and they have their own lives, but I'm not in a rush for them to leave. It's like, stay as long as you want. I don't care. I don't care.

I like having them around. Like, you know, it's not gonna last forever. They're gonna be gone. They're gonna be gone. And then you're gonna be like, oh, wasn't it great when they were there? Like, I'm trying to enjoy it for everything that it is. Me too, man, I can't imagine like an empty house,

like walking by his room. Like it's an empty nest syndrome. Our two younger ones are both gone now at school. So it's the older ones that are around. Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, it's hard. I mean, I'm happy for them. You're emotional guy like me too though.

Yeah, I mean, I'm definitely. I'm super emo man. Yeah. I don't know if I'm as emo as you, but I can get pretty emo. But just thinking about him being gone, it's like freaks me out, dude. Like I don't like stay as long as you can.

Like, I mean, I could pay rent where he works right now. It's not possible. You're gonna blink and he's gonna be gone and doing his own thing and you're gonna be proud of him, but you're gonna miss, you'll miss that time. So to be able to be present with it and appreciate it for what it is now. And to play music with me, it's like.

Oh, that's incredible. What a gift, you know, who gets to do that? I know, I'm very lucky, man. I'm very blessed. I have a very awesome life and family, man. And friends. My friends will count for me like family. The other big thing that's changed in your life

is the podcast. I mean, I think you were doing it maybe when, when did you start it? You had just started. It was more of like a side little thing, but it's really become like a, you know, maybe not the main thing that you do, but like one of the big main things that you do in your life.

It's a full-time thing for me now when I'm home, for sure. Yeah, it definitely is a much higher priority than it was when- For sure. Especially I started before the pandemic. So I had banked some episodes. So I'm really lucky and like, I love the conversations. I love doing it, it's very therapeutic. It's inspired me to actually go get therapy

for the first time in my life from one of my guests. Oh, wow. I go to her therapist. I've never done that. Nobody's my family's been to get therapy. I'm the only person that's going. So it's a big deal. How has going to therapy impacted you?

It's interesting because it's kind of scary So how has that, how has going to therapy impacted you? It's interesting because it's kind of scary when you start like pulling back the layers and it's like, you're wondering like what you might find, you don't wanna find, once you find it, then you know it. Do you know, so I'm like slowly going back to like, through my grandparents and my, actually my mom's dad and how he was towards her, just all this stuff. I have some resentment with my mother.

I love my mother. We're close, but just a lot of things with my dad passing and how all that stuff happened after that. Yeah. So yeah, it's been really interesting to go. I love the person I go to. It's cool to talk to somebody who doesn't know anything about you

and just like spill everything. I was there for like a consultation. I just started spilling it. She's like, wait, wait, wait. I'm just meeting you. I started this, like almost crying, just spill everything. I was there for like a consultation. I just started spilling it. She's like, wait, wait, wait, I'm just meeting you. I started this, like almost crying, just telling everything. If I'm gonna do this, I'm doing it. I'm gonna do it all right now.

So the first time I go, this is my, she's like, wait, wait, wait, this is a consultation. I don't know if I like you or not. And, but now, yeah, I love her, but yeah. Well, I credit you for doing that. I think it's easy. Like, I think you would be somebody who I would imagine might be dismissive of that because you're like, my life's good,

I'm a positive guy, I have lots of friends, like I love my wife and I've got, you know, whatever, like why do I need to go to therapy? But I also know your backstory well enough to know that there's probably some trauma there. For sure. But somehow you figured out a way to either compartmentalize it

or, you know, however you work through it or however you keep it in a balance to like make your life manageable. And it's scary to say like, well, if I go towards that, that might threaten like the stability of what I've kind of created here. What would that mean? Like suddenly like it could disrupt all of this

and there's no guarantee that you're gonna be able to like find a new way forward and keep everything on the rails. Yeah, that's the scary part. Take like stripping the layers back here, right? That's the thing that was kind of like tripped me out because there's definitely something there with a no closure, my father passing

and not going to his funeral and not being allowed to even hear anything about it and thinking for like the next year or two, kept asking my mother when my dad's coming back. We had no closure in that. And i understand my mom didn't want her three young boys to go to her funeral but for us my dad just had chest pains went to the hospital never came back that's all i remember and i think that's probably why i also hate death and have a fear of death my whole life and hospitals i'm figuring all that shit now like i hate the whole

concept that we're going to die someday like i want to to be here forever with my kid and my family and watch over everybody who knows what's going to happen. But like I was actually texting with Trapper about today, but just the concept of death and how like, I just feel like I want to be here forever. I know it's not going to happen. And I have that fear probably since I was a kid with my worry about my, if my mom was going to die or my friend's going to die.

Like there's definitely something there for sure. And then that growing up with no dad and becoming a dad, then all these emotions come out. Like when you a dad it's like it's a life changer you know i mean things that i would be upset or cry about or i i didn't want to see any violent movies anymore i loved violent shit growing up i could care less about that when i became a dad then you have this whole world you have to put this child into that you don't own but you make and you raise and he goes out there just all this shit it's just like a lot of shit in my childhood for sure. I probably covered up and thought I got it out with songs.

I wrote a lot of songs about my dad, him passing, a lot of songs about my life. And I thought that maybe that was some therapy for me, but it's obviously not for sure. Once you start talking about it. Well, I'm sure there was a therapeutic aspect to that. Like you're trying to work it out for yourself. Yeah. And you mentioned like to work it out for yourself. Yeah.

And you mentioned like this, you know, lingering resentment with your mom. And I would imagine perhaps the original resentment stemming from her not being transparent about what was going on with your dad. For sure. But then understanding like she was doing what she thought was in your best interest

by not sharing, you know, not sharing all of the information. Like I'm sure she thought she was protecting you. Totally, I know that now as an adult and as a parent myself too, for sure. I probably do the same thing, you know, but then every man that tried to marry my mom after that, we run them out of the house.

Like nobody was good enough like my dad. So me and my brother would run every boyfriend she had out and she never got married with me again. That was her one true love. It's crazy, man. That's a whole other podcast, but yeah, definitely therapy's digging deep. You know what I mean?

Like, it's interesting. I was always scared of it. I thought it was like silly, but like, I think it's awesome. And so many people are like so comfortable talking about it now. It's like cool to go to therapy and talk about your issues and your problems, as opposed to back in the day,

like keep everything in, be tough, hold it in. And now don't show any weakness, do you know? Yeah, well, it always ends up coming out in a negative way, in a bad way if you do that. If it was snap. Yeah, I'm very, so that podcast, yeah, it just definitely was very therapeutic in many ways. And you just had Travis Barker on,

like that just dropped today, right? We're recording this, what is it? October 30th today. Probably my biggest episode will be, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I noticed it's already getting picked up by news outlets and stuff like that.

It's crazy because I've known him for so long and he hates podcasts. He's done yours and Rogan and several others, but not many. And like, he's not really the talkative kind of guy, but we know each other. So it was really great. I really got to know him more. And I know him him for like you think you know these people for like 20 years and you sit down with them or talk to them like you get deep yeah and that's

what i love about the podcast is like reconnecting with friends or actually people that i maybe had uh preconceived notions about what i thought they really liked and you sit down like oh my god this guy's awesome i've heard these stories about your whole life and you really this you're fucking cool that's what i love about it too like being shocked by like how these people really are once you sit down that meeting them at a show or backstage is so different playing with them but like when they come sit down face to face it's incredible man it's like so the travis i'm so proud of it because we got really deep we talk about things he doesn't really talk about and i'm really really and really, and he hit me up to tell how proud he was and stoked on it. And cause he's kind of doing the circuit now

with the new album out, but like, it was really nice, man. I loved it. He's a really special person and a very thoughtful, quiet, kind of introverted, sensitive guy in a way that is surprising if you only know him through kind of like celebrity tabloid journalism.

You know, you see what he looks like and the kind of world in which he operates and this rockstar kind of like veneer that, you know, is who he is on some level on the outside, but he's not that at all, really. Like he's such a sweet, thoughtful person. And I said to you before the podcast, like I think he should do more podcasts because, and I'm sure there's a trust thing there,

like he's only gonna do it when it feels right to him and he knows someone like yourself. But I think that format allows him to show who he really is and I think shifts people's perspective of what kind of person he is. 100%, he's been the same person since I met him over 20 years ago, exact same person, soft-spoken, sweet human,

supported by nonprofit-profit financially and all kinds of ways supported my son's drumming my band um amazing father um a really caring person and like yeah he's in a massive band you know he's he's in the world he's in now but we hang out he had the same conversations about the same stuff you know what i mean he's the exact same person like he's maintained just to be that through all he may look different or dress but when you hang out and you have the same conversations about the same stuff, you know what I mean? It's the exact same person. Like he's maintained to just to be that through all, he may look different or dress different or whatever, but he's still Travis. You know,

it's like, but people have people, especially with the internet, people just want to like have these things about people. They think that like everything you post is a hundred percent you, that could have been a moment or a feeling in that, in that second, you just followed your heart and post.

People just think that everything on there is like all of you and it's not and everything written about you is true and everything is that and like it's like unless you really know somebody it's like you're never really gonna know them and we're lucky that we got we do know them like that and i'm glad i had that the platform to have a conversation with that so people some of the comments are like i don't listen to this like this blah blah blah i'm like listen to it this is a conversation like listen to a person what they have to say. Not just their music and not just the tabloids and the headlines that people were so like excited

to like see a headline or a link about somewhere, a photo and like jump to conclusions about people. That's what the internet really kind of did, I think to like people's reputations or musicians or artists, or I don't know, I feel like people think that they really know you, they can get inside your life by something you post. Well, it's interesting because when we

were growing up, all you had to go on was like the liner notes and the album art. And then you would just fantasize or use your imagination to try to dream, you know, who these people were, what they were like. And then maybe, you know, months later or a year later, there's an article in Spin Magazine or whatever, you know, kind of publication where you would be like, oh my God, I can read, you know, and that was it. Yeah, yeah. And so we were left to our own imagination.

I love that mysteriousness. But there was a myth building to that also, where you built these people up to be, you know, people that they probably weren't, cause you're projecting this idea onto them, right? That's true too. And then there's the paparazzi kind of era where everything's exploitive.

Yeah. But I feel like mediums like podcasting bring that all the way back around and put the artist more in charge of, you know, basically sharing who they are. Like you can either say, you could be an artist who says I'm not doing anything and I want people to just not know who I am

and my art speak for itself. Or you can go on a podcast and talk to somebody for three hours and be kind of in control of the narrative that gets spun about who you are rather than reacting to whatever TMC decides to post about you or put on a television show.

Yeah, I think the podcast, like the realest rawest form of like seeing a real person, I think with these conversations, I really do. I don't know. I think that there's been so many I listened to or just people I've had on just like, they really get come to wanna talk about things that they wouldn't usually talk about

on an entertainment tonight or like, you know, in my big studio, I don't know. It just, especially, it's so important now, man. Especially people actually want people to know what you're really about. Cause you're not gonna find it online. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? But I'm psyched on the Travis one.

Yeah, I mean, I can't wait to listen to that. I mean, he did my podcast. It was, I don't know, it was probably like six years ago. Yeah, no. It was a long time ago, right? And like, unlike you, I don't know to listen to that. I mean, he did my podcast. It was, I don't know, it was probably like six years ago. So it was a long time ago. And like, unlike you, I don't know him that well. Like we live sorta nearby each other and I used to see him at Air One, you know, like I'm sure he doesn't go to,

I haven't seen him there in a long time. He's probably too famous to like go buy food anymore. But I just found him to be, you know, really open and sweet and sensitive. And I've had occasion to bump into him a number of times since then. And we, you know, we went to that crossroads thing and he was there and he was very kind.

But, you know, I wouldn't, he's not somebody I'm hanging out with all the time, I guess is what I'm saying. And yet he like texted me like a week ago because he was in Portugal and he was sitting at a cafe and he struck up a conversation with a stranger and somehow like my name came up. So cool man. And this guy was like,

oh, you know, Rich helped me get sober through his pot or whatever. And this guy hadn't even listened to the Travis episode. So I don't even exactly know how it all came up. But then Travis texted me to just tell me that he had had that experience. Like he didn't have to do that. And I think that speaks to the kind of person that he is.

And that's, it's cool. Yeah, I mean, he stayed himself the whole time and navigating through all that, all that celebrity and fame, just everything, his whole life's been like pretty much being filmed. Even before when he had like Meet the Barkers and even Blink is a massive band. He's been famous for a really long time.

Such a long time. Like how do you do that? In the spotlight. I wouldn't want that. Oh, like a TV, like a reality show? Just all the time. Yeah, I couldn't, yeah. Your life being chronicled in that way.

Yeah, just lights like this every day. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like some people can do it though. I mean, whatever, it works for people, but yeah, I just. How many episodes of the podcast have you done? Today's 249. And you're like banked through like May or something. I'm in May next year.

You're like way ahead. But I'll move things around. People wanna like promote something, but mostly my stuff is conversation, nothing really promoting. Yeah, I bank them and I gotta chill on that. And you just wanna keep it the way that it is? Do you wanna, like, what's your,

do you have an ambition for it or you just enjoy it? I filmed one before, I just didn't like it. Yeah, you don't film yours, yeah. I like the other, I like it. People are comfortable in my house and not being filmed. There's no really lights and they like enjoy it. And I get, I feel like me personally, I'll get a good conversation just like that.

And like my dog farting on them or Max coming in or getting them a drink or taking a bathroom break, which we do. It's just like- You could do that here. That's true, yeah. You would take breaks- You need to go to the bathroom?

No, I'm good. You can go. But yeah, I love it. It's working for me. I'm happy with it. It works for me. I love it. I enjoy it.

Don't fix what ain't broke, you know? Right. You've got a liquid death in front of you. And I know that you do like some brand work for them. Like you've been like an ambassador for that brand. I was saying this a while ago, man, I remember. I know. And we were like at a Superbowl party

and they had their big Superbowl ad and you were so excited. Like that company went from zero to a hundred, like so fast. These people are like marketing geniuses because it's basically water and it's great. Like Cesario, man. Yeah, unbelievable. What I didn't know until this morning

was this thing that they did where artists like yourself and a bunch of others created music and songs out of their bad reviews. Yeah, I'm in there. And there's like a music video. They took all bad comments and make songs. And they like use them as lyrics in a song, right? Yes.

What is the backstory? Like that's a brilliant move. And the music video is like Puritan, like Scarlet Letter, like women dressed up as like colonial Puritans, like reading, like basically singing about how, you know, this brand is evil. So negative stuff written about them. They did like a punk one.

I was just on the 80s one, me and I had Chappelle on there, Chris Cole, Mark McGrath, Tony Canal. They got a whole bunch of people on this new record that came out and basically, yeah, they're making catchy ass songs from negative comments. Right.

They thrive on that shit, dude. It's pretty funny. It's like a water brand with like 2 million followers. It's crazy how they're doing it. Like, latest drop that MeUndies collab. It's like the biggest collab MeUndies have done, supposedly. Oh, I didn't know about that. MeUndies Liquid Death collab.

It's really good too. It looks good, yeah. It's like, what can't they do? Only in like the podcast world, you know what I mean? But it's like, what can't they do? They're doing every call. It's like, what can't they do? That's like only in like the podcast world. You know what I mean? But it's like, what can't they do? They're doing every call. It's crazy, dude. Like every week something else comes out.

I'm like, oh, I need to get that. It's cool stuff they're doing. Yeah, I mean, the owner's great. The company's great. I'm an ambassador. Yeah, they do my pod and- That's cool. Yeah, it's a great brand.

They're really killing it, man. It's just water and a can. People just freak out about it. People hate on it too, so bad too. I don't care. It's just a kiss of water, you know? Marketing, dude. Marketing's it, man. It's just water in a can. People just freak out about it. People hate on it too, so bad too. I don't care, it's just a piece of water, you know? Marketing, dude. Marketing is everything, man. It's a marketing company.

Yeah. In the same way that Red Bull is a marketing company, right? And Red Bull uses the money that they make from selling this beverage to fund this media empire, which is to me the interesting part of that company. Yeah. So it'll be interesting part of that company. Yeah. So it'll be interesting to see what Liquid Death does. I mean, last year they ended crazy

and this year's probably ended really crazy financially. You know what I mean? They came out last year, how big it was. It's just everywhere and now it's in Europe. It's everywhere. It's come out in England. It's water, man. Are you still doing the public speaking thing?

Like that was a bigger part of your life prior, right? Like going to high schools and stuff like that. Like, but I haven't heard you talk about that or- Cause schools, everything went to Zoom. It was really crazy for a couple of years. I was doing the last couple of schools, maybe 2018. And now, yeah, I loved it. I went to like 30 schools.

I'd love to bring it back. I was talking about some of the other day about it. If there's like physical schools I can go to, I'd love to do it again, yeah, I loved it. I went to like 30 schools. I'd love to bring it back. I was talking about some of the other day about it. If there's like physical schools I can go to, I'd love to do it again. Yeah. But also like, it's just getting me there and, you know, finances and all that stuff. What I was doing, I'd piggyback and I'd go do them for free. I do it on a weekend of shows. It was kind of hard.

They'll play like three shows and like try to have a voice and then go speak on a Monday. So I was kind of like separating, uh, church and state, separating H2O and speaking. So I can just do it, fly out there and do like a couple schools. Do you still have the foundation though? One life, one chance? I have a nonprofit, yeah. Yeah.

So it took a while to get that. You gotta kick that back up, man. I know, I love to. I love to do it again, actually. I feel like that would give you an energy boost. Not that you need it. You have a lot of energy. But no, I would love to do it again.

It was really fun. I should really, I was talking about something that when you can do that again, but the pandemic kind of crushed everything. And then when I was doing that, my band wasn't really doing much. Then we put a new record out, somebody kept touring. So like, I'll bring it back for sure.

When are you going out to tour again? What does that look like? Rest of the year, nothing. And then next year we have like one show book, but then we have a bunch of festivals in Europe, June and July. Yeah, the whole festival thing in Europe. It's incredible, man.

I love it. We used to always go during the summer, bring Moon and Max to come. Now Max is with us obviously, but just go away for like two or three weeks and play all outdoor festivals. It's awesome. Uh-huh.

And you got Chappelle into a band, right? Like you got him playing music, Chappelle Lacy. Well, he's got his own band, they're called Mad Peaceful, they're awesome. Uh-huh. And you got Chappelle into a band, right? Like you got him playing music. Well, he's got his own band. They're called Mad Peaceful. They're awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he had never been, like you guys became friends through social media

or podcasting, right? And he's a standup comic, but loves hardcore. Loves hardcore. Changed his life as a young kid, yeah. But that's a different thing from like, okay, now I'm gonna be in a band. Yeah, started a band. Actually, go see him play tonight actually.

And Alex is playing guitar tonight. They're playing tonight. Alex, are you in the, are you in Chappelle's band? Tonight I am. Oh, you are? He's playing guitar tonight. That's like crazy, wow. Dude, they're a great band.

He's a great front man. They sound awesome. The songs are great. It's like this agnostic front, black flag kind of mix I like to say about them. And he loves it. It's another way for him to like, you know, get it out. Yeah, and then your other boy, Derek.

Sepultura. I never know how to say that. Sepultura. It's like a, it's a Brazilian band, isn't it? He came in later, like when the lead singer left or something happened. Yeah, I think the first thing was in 20 years and he's been in the second 20 years,

been doing it for 40 years. Kills it, amazing front man. Also big time plant-based dude. Yes. Who's got that show, what's it called with Tanya O'Callaghan? Highway to Health. Highway to Health, right?

Yes. Is it a YouTube series? Yep, it became one. Yeah, they had it for a while, they were shopping and then end up on YouTube, which is great. And yeah, it's doing really well in there too. It's a YouTube series? Yep, it became one. Yeah, they had it for a while. They were shopping and then end up on YouTube, which is great. And yeah, it's doing really well in there too. It's a great concept.

I'm getting Tanya in here soon. Nice, you are. To do the podcast, she's great. She's awesome, dude. She's playing bass with Iron Maiden right now. I know, man. With Bruce Dickinson. Incredible.

Yeah. She was playing with like a white snake. She's a striking person. When she walks into a room, people notice. For sure. Like super tall with the dreads and the whole thing and like, you know, just rocking the base at like the highest level of like metal.

I think she was in Whitesnake too or something crazy. She was before that, yeah. And Steve Nathers band. Yeah, she's amazing. She does a lot for the animals in her platform. Huge, huge like vegan plant-based animal activist person. She's cool, man. From Ireland, yeah. There's some cool people around us, man. Yeah. Cool little world. Huge, like vegan plant-based animal activist person from Ireland. There's some cool people around us, man.

Cool little world. I know, so what is the coffee bunch look like these days? Since I've been around, like the sort of lunchtime crew. Oh, they go with the crew we have? Yeah. So the same crew, Chappelle, Derek, Alex will pull up. We were training for a while in my garage. You gotta sign up for some kind of running race though.

Cause when you came out and when we shot that video and we were running around LA and we ended up like running up that hill that gives you that Vista, that view of like LA, we did like repeats on that. And like the head, everybody was rallying around like you making it up there, man.

And I felt like that was like a breakthrough. It was a breakthrough. Thank you for that. Yeah. So I've been running ever since, man. I've like, I was told by Hakeem to have like different,

change up different styles of running shoes, always switch them out. I have five different styles I switch out, but love my ons the best. And yeah, so that was a great, great moment with you. So yeah, thank you for that. Is Hakeem still doing like the run club stuff? I'm not sure about that. Yeah.

I love Hakeem. He's awesome, dude. He's a great soul. I'm gonna sure about that. Yeah. I love how Kimmy's awesome dude. He's a great soul. I'm gonna be a taco baby with you. He's a great dude. Yeah, man, I wanna see that happen. Wait, would you run with me? Are you back in the running game?

If my back gets healed, I'm working on that. So maybe next year? So I've been benched. Hopefully sooner than that. Well, I mean, run a marathon next year. Oh yeah, I'd love to. I'd love to do it with you. It'd be fun. I'll do a half marathon before that. For sure. mean, run a marathon next year. Oh yeah, I'd love to. I'd love to do it with you. It'd be fun.

I'll do a half marathon before that. For sure. I gotta step up my miles though. You should. To fell off a little bit. Get back on that. I will. Keep you lean, bro.

I know. You're feeling good though? Yeah, my back is getting better. I still have a little bit of ways to go, but I'm anxious to get back out there. Like I've just, it hasn't been fun. It's a whole other story. Well, you're an inspiration for everybody. I appreciate being your get back out there. Like I've just, it hasn't been fun. Well, you're- It's a whole other story. Well, you're an inspiration for everybody.

I appreciate being your friend and being here. And you inspired me to run and step up my game with a plunge, a sauna, everything. You, Huberman, Brolin, everybody. Everybody's my peers. It's funny, the whole Huberman thing came together cause he's like a fan of H2O. I know, I talk with him.

You called him on the FaceTime. We met right then at that moment. It was crazy. Cause he wanted to meet you and I knew you wanted to meet him. AndTime. We met right then at that moment. It was crazy. Because he wanted to meet you and I knew you wanted to meet him. And I was like, this alliance has to happen. That was crazy. It's cool.

Fully tatted, punk rock skateboarder, like killing it. Yeah. And he blessed me with the plunge and then I blessed one to Josh in the trap. So yeah, thank you for that. That's pretty cool, man. Pay it forward, man. I love it, buddy. It's been cool to watch you kind of embrace

all these lifestyle practices. That you've been doing for so long. No, not really. No, man. I love it, buddy. It's been cool to watch you kind of embrace all these lifestyle practices. That you've been doing for so long. No, not really. No, man. I mean, like, you know, I haven't been plunging that much longer than you and all this sauna. I just got a sauna for the first time recently.

So such a game changer, man. Hook me up with that and I'm really enjoying it. Do you do it in the morning or night? I do it like late afternoon, early evening. That's my favorite time to do it. Same. Yeah. Nighttime's kind of gnarly.

Yeah. It's cold out. I do like, I could plunge in the morning and that's great. But like sauna in the morning, like I, it, it, it, like that kind of lulls me into like. You wanna take a nap or something. Yeah, like I wanna, I wanna take a rest after that. Yeah, nighttime is really great.

And like doing this direct sun and stuff and yeah, it's just game changer, man. Cool. Well, I love you, buddy. I love you too, man. Thank you for coming here. This is even better than last time. This is great, man. It was good?

I don't remember what happened last time. It was like, I don't know. Like I do the thing and then I move on. Like, I don't know what we talked about last time. I'm curious about your hairstyle. What's going to be next for you? I don't know. It's bad, right?

I don't know what to do. No, I like it. You have great hair though. I'm growing my hair out. I'm in the in-between phase. So I just been wearing hats, but like I don't know what to do with my hair. hair though. I'm growing my hair out. I'm in the in-between phase. So I just been wearing hats, but like I don't know what to do with my hair. So I need a style consultant.

What should I do? What's like a back or something? I tried that. You did? You just keep growing. I wanna keep growing. Have you ever had long hair before? Yeah, I've had really long hair.

I don't know if I'm gonna go all the way back. If you still have it, since you have it, grow it, man. Let's see. Yeah, man. And if I ever decide to get a tattoo, you're the first person I'm gonna call. I got you.

I might even do it on you. It's a virgin canvas, dude. Would you ever get one? Maybe, we'll see. Like a little PMA tattoo or something? Maybe, maybe. We'll talk. Anybody you want, I got you.

All right. Never too old to get a first tattoo. To be continued. All right. Thank you. to get first out to. To be continued. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Peace. Peace. That's it for today. Thank you for listening.

I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn more about today's guest, including links and resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at richroll.com, where you can find the entire podcast archive, as well as podcast merch, my books, Finding Ultra, Voicing Change in the Plant Power Way, as well as the Plant Power Meal Planner at meals.richroll.com. as well as the Plant Power Meal Planner at meals.richroll.com.

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