The Rich Roll Podcast - The Best of 2016 – Part I

Episode Date: December 26, 2016

This is the time of year to pause. It's the time of year for reflection. For gratitude. And for giving back. So let's do all those things. Welcome to the fourth annual Best of the RRP Anthology — our way of taking a moment to reflect on the year, express gratitude and give thanks for taking this journey with us. I pride myself on bringing a wide variety of personalities, opinions and attitudes to the show. When I look back over 2016, it's amazing how many incredibly dynamic conversations and perspectives I was honored to share. Second listens brought new insights. Another reminder that this show is a gift that just keeps giving. For long-time listeners, this two-part episode is intended to inform and inspire your new year's trajectory. If you're new to the show, my hope is that this anthology will stir you to peruse the back catalog and/or check out episodes you may have missed. Links to the full episodes excerpted in this anthology are enumerated below. What a stunning year. Thank you. I appreciate you. Here's to an extraordinary 2017 — the year we manifest our greatest dreams into reality. Join me, and let's do this thing together. Peace + Plants, Rich

If you really want to search for more, to break through the conditioning, to find out how beautiful this planet is and the energies and the nature of yourself, then then you're ready and it's already inside and we just need to apply to this and consciously then the neurology changes and then we are able not only to increase our performances and because we master and control the physiological depth of ourselves but we also get a sense of spirituality and beginning to understand the real purpose of that's the. That's the real thing, right? It is. It is. Yes, the purpose of our being is really

making the soul ascend to expand consciousness. That's the Iceman Wim Hof, and this is part one of a very special Best of 2016 edition of the Rit Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast.

Hey, everybody. Happy holidays. How you guys doing? Welcome or welcome back to the podcast where I, Rich Roll, your host, do my best, my very, very best best to have the most probing, meaningful conversations that I possibly can with the world's best and brightest across all categories of positive paradigm-breaking culture change. I appreciate you guys tuning in for listening, for subscribing, for spreading the word to your friends and on social media, for subscribing to my free weekly newsletter, Roll call. And of course, for always clicking through the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases, especially throughout this holiday season. You can also go to richroll.com forward slash Amazon

for that same purpose. And thank you very much. Before we get into what I feel is a very compelling and exciting episode, let's take care of a little business. giving back for celebration, and of course for reflection. And this week on the show, I'm doing all of these things. I'm giving thanks to you guys. I'm expressing my gratitude and reflecting back on this journey that we've all taken together over the course of 2016. It's been an absolutely amazing year. I've had extraordinary guests.

The audience continues to grow and get more and more engaged with this podcast. And I'm just so grateful for your support, for everything that I have experienced. And I hope that you guys have gotten a lot out of this program as well. It's just been an amazing ride that shaped and shifted my life in countless amazing ways. And I hope that it has had a positive impact on you as well. So over 2016, we have conversed on an incredibly wide range of topics and subject matters, so many incredible guests. And as kind of a broad lifestyle wellness podcast, I pride myself on trying to embrace and contemplate a wide range of important subject matters and varying perspectives and

opinions and attitudes. And I feel like we accomplished that in 2016. When I look back, even I'm surprised that everything that we covered, all the different people that I've had the opportunity to talk to and share with you guys, the diversity of guests, how many interesting and unique people and perspectives we have entertained. And so these next two episodes are all about canvassing that, excerpting some of those insights, giving you guys a snapshot of the year, sort of a refresher course, if you will, a little inspiration capsule to catapult you into January, not only informed, but motivated and inspired to take your health and your well-being and your

life to the next level. So if you've been with me all along from the beginning or at least throughout this past year, then this will hopefully help bring some of these insights back into the forefront of your mind as you contemplate your trajectory, your hopes, your dreams heading into the new year. And if you're new, then this window into the world of my guest should hopefully inspire you to go back and listen to the full episodes or visit some of the shows that you might have missed earlier in the year. Of course, as always, I've provided links to all the individual specific episodes in the show notes, which you can find on the episode page at richroll.com. So I got to tell you, it's really, really hard to choose amongst my babies. I love all of my guests. I wish that I can include an excerpt from every single person that I've

talked to this year. All of them have been a gift and it's almost impossible to choose who to include in this best of. Every time I look at somebody and then think, well, that person can't fit in, then it's just, it breaks my heart. So we did the best we could. So please know that if I left out one of your favorites, I get it. It breaks my heart to leave anyone out. So this is just where we're at. Anyway, these next two shows are just, it's, they're sort of like my love letter to you guys, a way of saying thank you, that I recognize you, I appreciate you, that I believe in positive change. I believe in you and I believe in the power that we all have to do and be better, to step into our best, most authentic selves.

So happy holidays to all of you guys. And let's just dive in. Our first guest is none other than the Iceman himself, Wim Hof, who is at Iceman underscore Hof on Twitter. He's the guy who opened up this episode with the quote. For those that don't know, Wim is a Dutch-born world record holder. He is an adventurer, a daredevil, and a human guinea pig best known for his preternatural ability to withstand extreme cold and for his experimentation with some really interesting breathing techniques that he submits allow him to consciously control his autonomic immune system response

and which have propelled him through such superhuman feats as scaling above the death zone on Mount Everest in nothing but shorts, swimming 66 meters under a meter of ice above the polar circle. You get the idea, right? So here's my point. You have this deep knowingness, this awareness, this not just self-awareness, but like cosmic awareness of the impact of these practices on your health.

And you may not have had the scientific background or the vocabulary to articulate what is actually going on, but because of these feats that you've accomplished and the attention that you've attracted, you have these scientists studying you now, and now you're able to explain what you've known all along, right? Exactly. And so what is it that's happening

what now is happening is that i want to go from science to sense from science to you know caring and sharing we should love each other and but the love is constituted now scientifically by hormonal control immune system control and once again energy management right and we got it analyzed now so if every mother would be able to guarantee health happiness strength for her kids and there would be no war anymore because there is no powerful positioning and and all this crazy stuff going on anymore it's out because what is the most wealthiest person that what you cannot buy but be and that's healthy strong and happy so we bring it down by analysis saying that's a hormonal control and the

control over the immune system anybody can do it and what comes first the cold or the breathing like what is the most paramount uh practice like how do these two worlds fit together the cold brought me this a deeper connection because i had i had to reconnect consciously into my physiology to endure the cold but it made me change my breathing pattern later on i saw that the breathing, what we do, is too shallow. It's too shallow every moment. So if you miss out every moment or 10, 15% of the right chemistry brought in by a wrong intake of oxygen, bringing in wrong pH levels, then the body is confused. And so the breathing, I say the breathing plus consciousness. The cold is what brought and so the breathing i say the breathing plus consciousness the cold is what brought you to the breathing though yes it could also have been the heat could also have been

oxygen deprivative states like situations like mount everest orelo Manjaro. Anything that triggers the deepest part, the survival part, the fight, flight, food, the fuck in the freeze. Right. That mode is. It wakes you up. They say the big five. I say there are six. The spirituality is also there.

That's the consciousness. So let's break down the biochemistry of what's happening. You're talking about raising the pH, becoming more alkaline, your system becoming more alkaline. And I think that's super interesting. There's a whole school of thought that most people in Western culture are in a state of chronic acidosis. The food that we're eating is very acidic, meat and dairy products. We're breathing toxic air. We're not getting enough sleep, stress. All of these things

contribute to us being in a state of acidosis most of the time, right? And our systems have to, we buffer that. Like we maintain a relatively neutral pH, but we have to leach minerals out of our bones to maintain all of that. But the more alkaline foods that we can eat and the better care we can take of ourselves and the sleep and all of that reducing stress pushes us towards that more alkaline state. And what they're realizing, and I'm interested in your perspective on this, is this state of chronic acidosis causes the inflammation and it's the inflammation that is leading to all of these chronic illnesses from obesity to diabetes etc that are just killing millions of people every

year it does so it's it begins with the alkalinity it does and that's chemistry we have to become alchemists everybody everybody is but we don't always but you but we just have to do the right breathing technique that's it so we don't actually have to be alchemists no no no it's not a school or something you know yeah and there is no you know it's not four dollar breath and a three dollar breath and a bargain here for 75 cents it's for free anybody can do this and take it in and do it consciously our consciousness once it begins to get into our system it gets into the cells we have memory cells and all that but there is a new element which is the consciousness and finally it's becoming neurological. What do you mean by that? The neurological patterns that enable us to get in the right way into the depth of our system,

enabling us to control whatever makes our mood happy and a condition you know it's a healthy and and the energy management in in cell on cell level we can influence which is strength so we are able to do that well we have to change the neurology and it begins with better breathing and then it takes a little time to readapt to the uh to this new neurology enabling us to control ourselves a lot better and that's done by consciousness i'm charging right now yeah but mostly i always follow follow my feeling feeling is understanding this is what i feel here right now right now that it is a new insight i i'm into ongoing scientific research because i don't like speculation i like to philosophy i don't like speculation and i believe that we have the sense

to see what is right and what is wrong it's so crazy because we sort of walk around thinking that our, you know, our job is to, you know, get married and have kids and have a house. We don't, we just don't look, we're very myopic in what our abilities are, what our purpose is here on earth. And to hear somebody talk about how expansive you know our mental capacity truly is it it calls into question so many other sort of tried and true facts that we've been taught our whole life like what else are we capable of what what other untapped areas of our you know mental capacity are just sitting there dormant waiting to be discovered because you're just you you you

happened into this by virtue of experience it wasn't like you read it in a book or you were a scientist doing studies in a lab so who you know who's the next wim hof who's doing something totally crazy in a different way who's going to discover that we have something else that we're just not aware of that we've been told our whole lives is outside of the realm of possibility. Yes, the purpose of our being is really making the soul ascent to expand consciousness. And that's our true one. If we follow that path, then there is no tension.

You just live like a kid, open, and it's all simple. It's beautiful. The energy is clean. And we should. We are children of Mother Nature. So the nature is there, and it's beautiful. But we do not experience that anymore because our consciousness got narrowed. And nobody understands this.

They say, ah, you're religious, or you oh you're religious or you're happy or you're this or that and that is the thing we are not open to nature what's the right motivation you think the right motivation is if you really want to search for more to break through the conditioning to find out how beautiful this planet is and the energies and the nature of yourself then then you're ready and it's already inside and we just need to apply to this and consciously then the neurology changes and then we are able not only to increase our performances and because we master and control the physiological depth of ourselves but we also get a sense of spirituality and beginning to understand the real purpose of that's the gift that's the real thing right it is yeah it is yes the purpose of

being is really making the soul ascend to expand consciousness. Next up is Ryan Holiday, at Ryan Holiday on Twitter. Ryan is a media strategist, keen observer of business and culture, and the author of four acclaimed books, including The Obstacle is the Way and Ego is the Enemy, both of which are steeped in the principles of Stoic philosophy and constitute this amazing historical exploration of overcoming adversity and navigating our own internal numbers. Ryan is truly one of my favorite people, as well as a really, really good runner.

So enjoy. Beyond your personal experiences with American Apparel, etc. You know, a big part of what has informed this for you is just, you know, culturally what's going on around us with social media. And we're all like sort of encouraged to, you know, sort of be the best version, you know, this, this glossy version of ourselves online. Right. And, you know, it's a, it's a culture of, you know, countless sort of inspirational guru people telling you that you can do anything that merges into, uh, you know, a sense of entitlement for young people that all of these things can kind of create this perfect storm of ego out of control.

And yet we are, we're looking to examples of this in our culture, successful people that appear to be, you know, exuding this kind of unhealthy ego. So how do you, like, what is, how do you look at that? How do you wrestle with that and reconcile it with the message that you're trying to convey well i think there's two really important cognitive biases there right so one's not a cognitive bias but in academia they have that concept of the publication bias right like a scientist sits down and does an experiment and the experiment doesn't generate any conclusive results or perhaps the results are not interesting,

that doesn't get published in an academic journal because no one's like, here, read this exciting new study that gives you nothing, right? So the shadowy bias in science is that it's always going towards proving something versus proving how little we know about things. And I think social media has created a similar effect, right? I don't publish the boring parts of my reality online and neither do anyone that I know. And so you start to, you're looking around as humans do, comparing yourself to other people, but you're not comparing yourself against to what's real.

You're comparing yourself to the illusions or the images that people want to project. So I think that that that's really interesting. And then the historically we, we often confuse causation and correlation, right? Like is Kanye West, uh, successful because he has a huge ego or, and this is my experience at somewhere like American Apparel, the people are successful in spite of this ego that is constantly causing problems. Or does the ego grow in proportion to the success? I think it's both. Dr. Drew did this study a few years ago on narcissism and they found that of all the celebrities the most narcissistic were reality stars and that the more talented the person was like the more technical their profession was like the drummer of a band would have the least amount of narcissistic traits but he was like the the

response is like oh yeah that's because this know, being famous for nothing makes you narcissistic. And he's like, actually, what I think it is, and I think he had some data that backs this up. It's that only a narcissistic person would think they deserve to be famous just for being who they are. Right. And the fame that goes along with it fuels that narcissism. It's a loop. It grows into this huge monster, right? Like Kim Kardashian is not,

uh, is, is narcissistic for thing. It was narcissistic. And that's why she thought we should have watched a reality show about her life. And then now a world that encourages her to publish books about, of selfies of herself is also fueling those same negative impulses.

So it's, it's a, that's why it's so, it's not just, you learn this one time. It's something you have to work on constantly. And the more, the more successful you are, the more people are asking about how you became successful. So now there's, now you're having, you have more opportunities to tell that fake story about yourself. The more, you know, the more successful you are, the more you're interacting with people who are, who are dependent on you.

And so you can feel like you're better than that. Reinforced and entrenched. And you know, what began as on some level fiction becomes reality by virtue of sheer self-will almost. Yeah. Well, the, the, the weird thing thing and i don't talk about this a lot in the book but i am fascinated by it is so i've known a number of of very egotistical and i would say delusional people but what impresses me about them is the the sheer willpower i guess they call

it self-will and ego community or in the addiction community. Self-will run riot. Yeah, where they can actually, to a certain degree, create reality that matches the fictions about themselves. And so it drives them to absurd heights, right? Like Donald Trump is not even close to one of the world's richest men. But in thinking so and in acting so, he has made himself quite wealthy, right? so he has made himself quite wealthy right like so so it that that's really interesting is it's like these people they they they thought they were a superstar and they made themselves famous as a result and so in that's one of the worst things that can happen to a human being because now like if if someone told you you shouldn't do something like that's a huge mistake like i think about this with college.

Most of the people in my life said, don't drop out of college. This is it. You know, my parents thought it was this huge mistake. Well, I ended up being right. But I was really only right in that specific instance. I'm not right every time that everyone in my life says that I'm wrong and I shouldn't do this. And so that you have to have the self-awareness and the objectivity to look at every situation fresh and not bring to it this overconfidence that you know better than everyone else all the time.

Right, and surround yourself with sycophants that are gonna support that. Right, like I think about that with American Apparel. The company is insane if you think about it, right? It's like, we're gonna manufacture our own clothes. We're not going to put any logos on them. We're going to do our, all our own advertisements. We're not going to use professional models. We're going to own our own stores and we're going to sell these t-shirts for like 25, $30. Like that's, that's nuts. Right. And, and a lot of entrepreneurial ideas are crazy because they're projections of what might be possible in the future.

Amazon is an insane concept in 1995 or whenever it's made. So there is that element of craziness is confirmed, like you make that craziness uncrazy, you have a very dangerous precedent that if you apply widely throughout your own life will get you in very serious trouble. Russell Simmons, Uncle Rush on Twitter. He's next up. Russell is an entrepreneur, a yogi, a meditator, a vegan activist, perhaps best known for co-founding Def Jam Records with Rick Rubin back in 1984, which really pioneered the hip hop movement. There's nobody quite like Russell. He is definitely one of a kind. So please enjoy this clip from the singular Uncle Rush. And if you had to encapsulate the benefits of meditation in your life,

how would you articulate that? My name is Rush. I like my quiet time every day. Love it. Love it. It's self-reflection. It's personal. You get a chance to watch your life.

If you were to be in moving meditation at all times, or if you were to find a second of pure stillness in meditation, it's such an enlightening thing. A joke, what happens? Everything goes away but the giggle. If you get the future in the past meditation is to get hundreds of thoughts out of your mind slow them down to four or five or eight or ten or twelve or whatever it is or maybe one thought your mantra this idea of quieting the

mind or rebooting the mind has so many benefits it's unbelievable it's like now it's not just you know the buddhists and scriptures and it's not just be like now, it's not just, you know, the Buddhists and scriptures. It's not just be still and know. It's not just a bunch of rigmarole from all the prophets all the time. It's not just that crap. It's Science Journal. It backs up what they've been doing for thousands of years. It changes the way the brain functions.

It grows the gray matter in the brain. It connects the left and the right side of the brain. And that leads to better immune system, better memory, better able to function and live longer. It does all these things for you. So now you know through science that what they've been promising you is good, is really good. So that's like, how could you not want to do that?

Right. And I feel like meditation is having a big moment right now. Like it's really kind of burst onto the mainstream because of all these scientific studies that are coming up with all of this information that you just spoke to. And I think that people intellectually understand all of this and yet they can't get over that hump or they just say you know i'm just too busy like i get it but it's just never going to happen and namah rishi had a great people are as busy as you are so i think i do more and i do less i meditate every single day i don't give a fuck if i was negotiating between putin and obama some great deal that had to get done and I was the mediator if my last class of yoga today was gonna close I like to be with people I like to do it if

that class wasn't gonna happen because I'm stuck with these two niggas I would leave them and say y'all fix it yourself I would not miss my yoga class at any time and I will not miss my morning meditation so first chakra first and I think I'm a better servant because of it and I will not miss my morning meditation. So, first chakra first and I think I'm a better servant because of it and I don't make exceptions if I can help it. I mean, I've been on planes. It's stuck on planes and missed yoga. It's happened but not possible.

If it's possible to get there, in any city, no matter where I travel, I find yoga. And no matter where I travel, I sit in a space. I don't think you need to go anywhere to meditate i don't need to go to an ashram i sit in my bed i sit up straight i meditate but the point i make is that i don't miss taking care of myself and those two things are part of my you know taking care of myself i think it's really interesting that you're able to have these

friendships with people that are on you know a very different side of the fence from Roger Ailes and this kind of famous relationship that you have with Donald Trump and that kind of – Head. Well, yeah, the viral moment of writing the letter. I'm not sure. I haven't talked to him. Oh, there's – And I've said a lot of shit. Everybody wanted me to ask you if you've talked to him since the letter. I have not spoken to him.

You haven't. And I don't know if he's going to call me until he wins the nomination. No, until he wins the presidency he said I'm going to get 100% of the black vote that's the best line I've ever heard what are you talking about

the blacks they love me yeah he said that it's interesting but I mean that aside the fact that you can be friends with people

that share a very different point of view I think is a really kind of powerful thing and I think it's unusual people have difficulty understanding how that could possibly be. They said I'm an asshole for having had a friendship.

To me and Reverend Jackson, there's a story in New York Times about our opinions about his statements. And both of them said that's a different Trump than we know. You know, we both said things that were not so bad about him, attacked his words, but not him. And he said we were both sellouts. Like if I had been a civil rights activist and had been cased. Wait, who said that?

It was a big story on an important black blog. And I say important, like one of the ones that, where it's not a blog like gossip. It was like a news blog. And it was this editorial written about how this perfect example of what sellouts look like and sound like. And it had come from that New York Times article.

But I find it's okay. I mean, because a Republican governor was the one that signed... The most important thing I've ever done is change the Rockefeller drug laws. Thousands of people came home from jail. It was a Republican governor who signed a bill and gave me the patent

because I was friendly with Governor Pataki. And that helped to build a bridge. And I negotiated between Senator Bruno and Shelley Silva the deal. I got in trouble with the lobbyists too. It cost me a lot of money, but that's another subject. But it's okay to get along with people you disagree with. In fact, it's critical that we all try to put ourselves in other people's shoes

because I believe that we all have the same hopes, desires. We're all inspired by the same kinds of things. We want to love and be loved. And I know that there are some small differences that really exist in us. That's from socialization or whatever. And we have to get over those and find the sameness and work on operating from that space on. And that's an important kind of premise to operate from.

It's easy. Right, right. It's easier. Life is easier if you know, I think it's easy, right? Right. Easier life is easier if you decide to love people rather than judge them. It's a, it comes from empathy. Like once you, you develop a capacity or a reservoir for empathy and you're able to kind of see somebody else's point of view, even if you don't share it, you can understand it in a certain way that I think like allows you to build a

bridge. Yes. Yeah. understand it in a certain way that I think like allows you to build a bridge. Yes. Yeah. A self-avowed queen of sweat, swagger and urban fitness culture, Robin Arzon at Robin NYC on Twitter and Instagram has appeared on the podcast three times. That's because she's amazing. She really knows how to bring the heat.

She's just awesome. A powerful and empowering female role model who just exudes inspiration from every pore. This was a really great conversation. If you haven't already, please pick up her book, Shut Up and Run. It's pretty great. And listen up. When I was first becoming a runner, I was so intimidated by all of the, I mean, the running Bibles and the compendium of information available. It's like, why so serious? Yeah, I think.

And I was thinking about this earlier as I'm sort of going through my own training plan with a fine-tooth comb and geeking out on technology and going super, like, the pendulum has definitely swung in the other direction. But when I was writing this book, I really wanted to take it back to how I fell in love with running, which was lacing up in probably ill-fitting shoes at 10 p.m. at night, running with my friends who are a motley crew of like downtown L new york city yeah it's like miscreants like

it was very simple warriors come out and play it's the war it's the warriors movie with with running but not running from the cops just running less violent less violent you know god willing less violent yeah um so yeah shut and Run, it has training plans. It has substance. It has, you know, really my genuine approach to training and how I've trained for, you know, dozens of ultra marathons and upwards of 20 marathons and now my 100 miler. But I kind of feel like there is just a lot of bullshit. Like, honestly, you don't need like a $700 Garmin watch for your 5K. Like, chill, bruh.

Like, I just think that there's a lot of noise that intimidates people unnecessarily. people feel like they need to apologize for being newer, slower, bigger, smaller, whatever. Whatever adjective you want to apply to it that is making you feel lesser than, people have this need to apologize. And I think my entire approach to running is like, shut up and run. Be unapologetic about who you are. Yeah, we can get better, faster, stronger, but I don't necessarily think that's the goal. If you're not enjoying the experience in the training miles, then I don't think it really matters what the finish line looks like. We live in such a culture, at least Westerners live in such a culture, where we're seeking shortcuts and hacks and apps and like multitasking,

time-saving genie machines. And I'm like, y'all are twisted. Like we need to get a little more centered, a little more grounded, and a little bit more intentional with where we're putting our energy. Like if somebody reaches out to me, a lot of times my first response when I choose to respond is, how badly do you want it? Like, really, how badly do you want it? Because same thing with training. Same thing with anything worth having. Do you want it more than going out until 2 in the morning? Do you want it more than potentially nurturing a romantic relationship

because those are sacrifices that I definitely have made to be sitting with you right now. Yeah, this came up when I was talking to Gary Vee and he's like, you have to do an inventory of your life. And he's like, once you kind of do that, most people, eight out of 10 people are gonna realize like, hey, the life I have right now, I kind of like. I like going out with my buddies and getting drunk on Thursday night.

Yep. I like watching House of Cards and all that kind of stuff that if you really want to shake things up and jump into the void and take on this mantle of blazing the warrior's path and trying to create some kind of entrepreneurial self-style lifestyle that you've been able to accomplish, it ain't going to be easy. And you're not going to know all the answers and have it all figured out. It's almost analogous to this example that I always use, and this kind of comes up in your book, Shut Up and Run. People who want to know what kind of running shoe they should get

or what kind of garment to get. And they don't really want the answer to that. They want that conversation to continue because that masks the fear of just going out and doing it. Of course. As long as I don't know exactly what kind of shoe is best for me, then I don't have to go out and run. Of course. It's like, how many issues of runner's world are you going to go through before you actually lace up

and get the fuck out? It's the same magazine every month. Like, real talk. I mean, honestly, guys, I think, I mean, I think, that's why I wrote my book. It's like, shut up and run. Like, stop overcomplicating the situation.

Like, of course you're going to evolve and progress and like, realize that X running shoe is better than Y running shoe and then get to a point where maybe you really should be investing in technology that's pricey. But it doesn't start there. It starts with literally the drive.

How badly do you want it? Are you going to get out the door? Are you going to sacrifice watching the House of Cards marathon? Are you going to sacrifice going out for a late dinner? I mean, it's those things that our entire lives are made up of micro decisions and micro moments. And like if we're simultaneously celebrating tiny victories and pursuing the next one, we're going to be fine. Next up, we have Ray Cronise, at Ray Cronise on Twitter, C-R-O-N-I-S-E. Ray is a passionate innovator.

He's a disruptor. He's a former NASA material scientist, a TEDMED speaker, an entrepreneur, and a self-experimenter, perhaps best known for his pioneering work with cold stress therapy. But in recent years, Ray has turned his attention, his prodigious mind, to diet and nutrition, arriving at the conclusion that a whole food plant-based diet is optimal for long-term health and wellness. He's the guy who helped Penn Jillette lose over 100 pounds and keep it off. And this is the most downloaded podcast I have ever done. Ray is the most popular guest ever in the history of this show. So if you did miss it the first time, please make a point of going back and listening to the entire conversation. It's an extraordinary, mind-bending three hours that I promise you will change your life. In the interim, here's a little taste.

When you get asked, as I'm sure you do every day, what about protein? You already elaborated on it at length earlier in the podcast, but when you only have a moment, right? Like somebody's like, well, what about protein? But you know you're only going to be talking to this guy for maybe two minutes. Like what is the, how do you manage that inquiry? So why don't you ask me? So where am I going to get my protein, right? I don't know.

What do you mean you don't know? You're the guy, you're the nutrition guy. I don't know. How can you not know? I mean, beef has protein. Yeah, so you're eating beef, right? No where do they get it uh grass they eat grass and hippopotamuses and yeah but you can't grass you can't digest grass the answer is they all all these things get protein i have no idea where they get it but somehow it works and i don't worry about it either. And I haven't seen any deficiencies. So I just don't worry about it. So this is a page out

of the Doug Lyle playbook. This is a Doug Lyle playbook. It's a little manipulative. It is. But the point- You talked about it on the other podcast with- Yeah. The answer is, yeah, the answer is, the answer is, is that the question isn't really meant to be answered. It's meant to start a debate and really what they really want is reassurance that what they're doing what they believe to be correct there and so because it's not a genuine they don't it's not like they're asking because they genuinely want to know they want to they want to dig in on their side to prove that what or establish to themselves that what they're doing is okay yeah exactly and and so it's

not a real question so i i just i just don't worry about it i give not a real answer uh-huh how does that go usually it always goes there really wait a minute how do cows get protein they they everybody gets everybody doesn't think about that that really messes them up and then you know obviously you can do the same thing with gorillas. You know, a lot of people use the gorilla example. You know, where in the hell does a gorilla get protein? I mean, they're way more muscular. They don't go to the gym and they don't eat protein shakes.

But I'm not going to get in a fight with a chimpanzee. I'm not even going to get in a fight with a little bitty monkey. It'll kick my ass, right? So I'm not going to do that. So I just don't, I just, I know what their heart, I don't think they're trying to be this way, but I just think the word just needs to be eradicated from diet. I think we just need to not even consider it. And that's what, and I know that's preposterous and I know that's disruptive, but that's what the food triangle does. We don't even include it

as part of it because again, from a longevity perspective, we need to eat less of it. Right. All right. Final question. I know you're not a medical doctor, but if the universe converged to make you Surgeon General of the United States, what would be the first thing that you would do? Fund whole food research. So I would say, let's throw out the rule books on protein carbs and fat let's throw out the typical randomized control trials it's all all designed for testing drugs where placebo really matters how do you double blind uh control banana unless it's going in the other end you know you know you're eating a medana what i would do is i would let people self-select and i would bring people together and say look i want you to eat this way for a year and we

want to just track you if you have an exception take a picture of it if i see a picture i can pretty much know what i need to know from a science perspective and i would start a very massive high level scale of trying to get a granularity to get rid of the debate and i think that i could design that right now, that we could start making some pretty good assumptions right now. The very final bit of that would be hard to tease out, but we would rapidly get to something that we could eat. We would rapidly get to something that we could say is,

you know, 80, 70, whatever percent effective in mitigating chronic disease within a few years versus right now that we'll never get there because you know we're chipping away and chipping away and chipping away and we're down in the minutiae and now that language is out on the blogs and i have all these people out there talk talk talk talk talk talk they really don't understand i didn't understand what a protein was and i did protein synthesis at nasa i mean we were doing protein crystal i didn't know what a protein was and what I mean by that is I didn't really understand what it meant from a dietary

perspective. And what was really interesting is at one of my daughter's Aaron's swim meets that we were sitting at, one of my biochemistry professors from college happened to be there and happened to hear me talking to somebody else about my new diet. And he really called the bullshit flag on me. And I'm thinking to yourself, look, you're fat. And I said it, you're fat. You obviously don't get it. So I know you know that I know you understand, but if you're going to assault me and say, I don't know what I'm talking about as a biochemistry professor, I'm going to say, you obviously don't know what you're talking about because you're fat. And of course I got this. What did that guy say to you? Oh, he was pissed. I mean,

that's not a way to win friends. But at the same time, you know, people did it to me too. You know, I don't have the chiseled abs. And so a lot of people, like when they see my TedMed talk where I had just lost 50 pounds and I was still at 180 and I hadn't done the last 20 because I was still doing research and I gained and lost a couple of times on purpose. I mean, I can show you on the withing scale afterwards, you know, each time I did them except because I know I don't cheat. I mean, I can show you on the living scale afterwards. You know, each time I did them,

except because I know I don't cheat. I know I could document what I was doing. But even now, I don't, I don't, I'm not as ripped as you are. I'm not in that shape, but I don't think you have to get to that level to understand a lot more about what it's doing at a medical level, okay? And I think that's the problem.

If you set the goal too far, if you set it way out there, the bar so far out that you have to be a fitness model to have an opinion. People who are fitness models hang out in gyms, not in libraries. And so, you know, people can say what they want. You know, I see it all the time. I ignore those like Tim, you know, you ignore the trolls, You just ignore them. I used to engage and I realized you got to starve them of oxygen. It's not that. And the converse is true too.

If you see a guy who's constantly putting up his ketogenic thing and every other picture is him in his bathing suit with his abs and he's 20 years old or whatever, these people, these people, they're're trying but they're they're just going for the the low-hanging fruit that's the protein on you know seven up when we were young had a great commercial never had it never will do you remember that it was caffeine so it was one of the first things and they made a whole avocatizing campaign around nothing and of course we saw this in the low fat the the fat-free foods you know of the of the 80s i love jeff novick's talk of those fat-free and how they just made this whole campaign over nothing they didn't change the soups they just added water right and the same amount of fat was in there so

all the people said yeah we reduced the fat. And look what happened. We got fat. No, we didn't. We just added sugar to it. Right. And then the sugar free. So right now we're seeing all this. And this is all this advertisement over nothing.

And I see a lot of fitness models. That's the same thing. When you're young, et cetera, having that is relatively easy to do. And the things that you're doing may in fact make you look amazing but also may at the same time be aging you early and the same that when i'm when i'm taking you on when i'm saying you know where do we make the soft landing for exercise this is a hard thing to say to a guy that's major you know your your mark on that but i think you take it in the right way that i mean it yeah of course so course. So what I'm saying is that essentially we've got to take these arbitrary labels.

And so protein, carbs, fat, metabolism, starvation mode, these are all things I'm going to be dealing with in the book, in our broken plate. And I think it's this language. I think it's this constant obsession with this minutiae where I was looking at proteins, I was synthesizing them, and I still didn't really recognize what they meant at the level you and I know today. Because every time you talk about the protein discussion, everybody would wind up tweeting saying, you need to talk to Ray and vice versa. You know, we talked about that. You know, they all would do us because we both talk about it.

Same with Matt. You know, it always, everybody, it's popular to talk about that because that question comes up and everything. Right now they have marketing studies. If you put the label word protein on a package, it just sells. And the food industry shouldn't be lambasted because they're selling more. The exercise industry shouldn't be lambasted because they're selling more. The exercise industry shouldn't be lambasted because they're getting more supplements. They're selling more memberships. The restaurant shouldn't be lambasted because they're putting food that's selling more.

No one tells you that you have to swallow that stuff. No one tells you you have to go participate no one tells you when you enter into this and you start going at it halfway and start believing everything and that's the problem um especially when it's a complex molecular biology or physiology where the words are being used out of context like insulin like glycemic index, like insulin resistance, like these kinds of terms that are just being thrown around. And everybody has this story they can tell, but have they really put a glucose monitor on? Do they really know what's going on? Have they really measured their insulin response to stuff? Are they really doing oral glucose tolerance tests like I was doing when

I was fasting and looking at how it changes? The answer is no, they're not. And I wasn't either. I was just as guilty. So I'm not throwing rocks. I did the same thing. I think we need, it's time to change this. I think we need to, you would talk to Penn. I never talked about technical stuff when these people were losing weight. We never talked about that.

It's like, we don't need, it doesn't matter. Where do you get your protein? I don't know, I don't care. When we figure out we're deficient, what is a protein deficiency disease? What are we looking protein? I don't know, I don't care. When we figure out we're deficient, what is a protein deficiency disease? What are we looking for? I know what happens when I don't have vitamin C. I know about scurvy.

I know about rickets with vitamin. I know what those things are. We know what every nutritional deficiency disease is. And no one's dying of that stuff. So my point is, why don't we stop talking about it a little bit? Leave it in the lab where it needs to be studied back to your question that you asked me because i didn't forget which is what would i do if i

was surgical general well like the last one i wouldn't be a fat surgeon general you know and that's hard to say and i'm not personally attacking this person but i watched a ted med as a fat surgeon general gave us a lecture about health. That is a severe cognitive dissonance, a society cognitive dissonance. And again, this is not being overweight. I'm not talking about social things. I'm saying that fat, and I love how Michael Clapper says it, is a large hormonally active, you know, it's an endocrine organ and it's hormonally active. So it's not just hanging out there and making you wear a bigger size. It's actively excreting hormones

in your body that causes all kinds of other dysfunctions. And so when we look at it from a strictly medical perspective, you know, I think, you know, PE teachers at school, you know, need to be in good shape. I, you know, I live in the Bible Belt in Huntsville, Alabama, and yet the Bible Belt happens to be the fattest states in the nation, and clearly gluttony is not on any religion's things-to-do list, right? So the point I'm making is that we have these contradictions

that are all out there, and if we could get rid of the social dogma and get our discussion back and say, wait a minute, what can we do to bring this back into discussion? I don't think we need terms of molecular biology or biochemistry to go shopping. And I think the labels, you and I have the advantage.

What do we do? We buy stuff without labels. You know, and even the organic versus inorganic whatever that means you know i mean even that i would rather people eat vegetables whatever they are frozen whatever then i would have them worry about the last thing does organic matter in some sense it will what was the word really mean i mean if rice is organically grown with chicken feces contaminated with arsenic that's organically unhealthy and of course hemlock you know tea is organic is natural and it will naturally kill you and poison ivy skin skin cream is probably not the best natural selection for there so this appeal to nature fallacy is everywhere

paleo is appealed to nature now some of the plant-based people do the same. We're designed to eat plants. We're designed to eat lots of stuff. And we survive and we've spread to all corners of a sphere. We've spread to all corners of the earth because we can eat a lot of things. But just because we can doesn't mean we should. And so what I would say is, you know, what we have to do is get back to talking about food. And I think the best food, in my opinion, is the food that doesn't need labels. Swimmer Anthony Irvin is next up at Anthony Irvin on Twitter and Instagram. Anthony is a three-time Olympian who won gold in the 50 meter freestyle in Rio this past summer. That's 35 years of age, 35 years old, 16 years after his first Olympic gold in the 50 meter freestyle in Rio this past summer at 35 years of age, 35 years old,

16 years after his first Olympic gold in Sydney. And in so doing, Anthony really solidified his place in sports history, in the history books by becoming the oldest individual swimming gold medalist in Olympic history. Think about that for a minute. And that's really just the very, very beginning of what I think is one of the most remarkable stories and personalities in all of sports. I'm really hoping to get him back in 2017 to share his Olympic experience. Until then, enjoy this brief clip from our conversation that actually took place before he even made the Rio team. So we march out and, you know, they announce the U.S. and there's a few cheers and they announce Australia and like the place just roared. And being that I was so inexperienced,

I'd never been to an international meet before. I didn't even have a passport before I made the Olympic team that, you know as soon as it got quiet i stood up on the blocks stood up on the blocks getting ready to start and and i hear here referee go lane floor four please step down and at that point i actually look around you know instead of just the lane in front of me i know it's like there's nobody else ready everybody else is just standing at the side and um you know it turns out this is where you have to wait for this long whistle before you stand up so i i'm like a goon up there and i step down and then they call us back up we take our mark and they set us off and i dive in you know and

i'm pumping my underwaters just like as fast as I can. And I, you know, I couldn't help it. I squeeze a look next to me, you know, sometimes you just have to look. And I see Michael Klim one kick after another, just surging ahead of me to the point where we actually break to the surface of the water. He got a full body length i'm crushed and i lose sight of my game plan and i spin my wheels to catch him and i catch him at the turn the halfway point but i'd used too much so on the way back i started fading and gradually i'm falling further and further back until i met his feet and even a little bit before i touched the wall for the exchange and you know australia has a formidable lead michael klim had broken the world record leading off the relay and you know

i'm just like completely wrung out and i climb out just the lactic acid pouring through you know every single muscle and i watch just like a broken record, as every American sprints to catch the Australian and pass him, only to fade right at the end for the next exchange. Neil Walker did the same thing. Then Jason Lezak. And then it was Gary Hall Jr. and Ian Thorpe. And Gary has the lead on him. He takes the lead early.

And coming back, Ian's catching him inch by inch, or as it were, centimeter by centimeter since we're in australia right and so with five meters to go with two more strokes he overtakes them and touches the australians win 12 15 000 people roar and triumph uh you know the australian swimmers stand up on their blocks and start playing air guitars yeah that image of them playing air guitar you can still find that one right yeah yeah yeah and we were just i was just devastated because i thought that was that was what was going to get me to the podium and so in the wake of that how do you get it together to get me to the podium. And so in the wake of that, how do you get it together to get ready for the 50? Well, I isolated myself a ton.

You know, even going by media at that point, I didn't trust myself to say anything. So I kind of just stood back of my teammates quietly, just breathing in and breathing out. And, you know know knowing that having not done it there and being a little too immature to understand you know that I was still part of a great thing that I had one more opportunity so the blinders went on and i really felt that i had let what somebody else had done get to me i let somebody else performance in a sport where you don't need to it's not like boxing or tennis where you need

to figure out a way past your opponent you know mano a mano this is just a race you know what you do is all you and any if somebody else gets in that that's your failure not their success right so i was i just started going through it in my head you know hour by hour day by day for a handful of days just of what could go wrong what could go right and every possible permutation um of what could happen. And so by the time I actually got to my individual event and I stood up on those blocks, I don't even like remember the race. Right. No, it just, I stood up, I took my mark, the race happened,

which was just an execution of everything that I was ready for. And I opened myself up to just swimming free. Do you have some kind of specific visioning preparation that you do? What's the ritual? Like ready room ritual? Yeah. It's really just attunement and control of the body. With a shave and a taper, you know, there's,

your nervous system is just like on fire. It wants to go. And it's about being like, just for me, it was always about trying to just be aware of it, but not, don't let it out. Don't let it out yet. So, you feel every heartbeat, you know, you feel, you know, if you're sitting, your forearms against your legs, if your heels are touching, you feel that, you know, if're sitting your forearms against your legs if your heels are touching you feel that you know if the air conditioner is blowing on your head you feel that too and you feel it all at once um and you just being in that state just moment to moment to moment to moment and it's very you know and then it's there's idiosyncratic of how you proceed from that room to behind the blocks to on the blocks to taking your marks and when you're behind the blocks right before the 50 are you looking around at the other

guys or you're just staring down the end of the lane staring down the lane and is gary like wearing his his like you know muhammad doing his muhammad ali routine in the boxing shorts and all of that i uh i know he did it uh-huh but you didn't see it but i didn't see But you didn't see it. But I didn't see it. Right. Didn't see it. There was no space for anybody else at that point. Everything shut out. Everything shut out. And then you just, I mean, it's almost like a fugue state.

You know, you're so programmed to go that you're just expressing what's already happened inside of you. Right. Right. And you touch how long of you. Right. Right. And you touch how long before you know what had happened. As long as it took me to squint my nearsighted eyes and make out the one next to my name. And I saw simultaneously another one next to Gary's. And it's funny because you guys had joked about tying at the Olympics,

right? It was one of those situations I had actually imagined. I was like, well, what if we tied? Right. You know, and other teammates that were there for other countries, I'd done the same for them. It's so crazy. So, what do you feel like when you've won an Olympic gold medal?

Like, what is that like? Well, you know, you have a fist pump. You're stoked and you're super happy. And, you know, Gary have a fist pump. You're stoked and you're super happy. And, you know, Gary was there and Bart was there. And, you know, it was just being able to hug over the landlines, you know, it was just, it was great. You know, that was the best part of that. Dr. Melanie Joy is a Harvard-educated social psychologist, celebrated speaker, and author, as well as the founder of the nonprofit organization Beyond Carnism.

This was a really fascinating conversation that centered around something called speciesism and the psychological defense mechanisms that we employ to rationalize our food choices. So please enjoy this clip from Dr. Joy. So we only have an hour today. And so I want to kind of get right into the heart of, you know, the work that you do. It's super interesting. You're somebody who has thought, you know, deeply about these issues of animal rights and the vegan movement and, and have a lot, you have a lot of interesting ideas and theories and concepts about it. So perhaps the best way to kind of launch right into it is just talk about this concept of carnism, which you are sort of famously have coined, you know, what that means and how that shapes and forms how you think about these issues.

Sure. Well, I came to the concept of carnism through my own personal journey. I, like many people, grew up with a dog who I loved like a family member. I certainly grew up as a person who cared about animals and didn't want them to suffer. And I also grew up eating meat, eggs, and dairy on a regular basis. And for a lot of my life, I just never made the connection between the meat on my plate and the living being at once was in the suffering inherent in that meat, eggs and dairy. And it wasn't until I stopped eating animals, I had become sick from eating a hamburger. And when did that happen? It was that was in 1989. It was before there was anywhere near the level of vegan consciousness that there is today.

I kind of became a vegetarian by accident. I just became disgusted by meat and I stopped eating it. And I became curious about my new diet and started wanting to learn about vegetarianism. At the time, it was before I had become completely vegan. And what I learned shocked and horrified me. But what about animal agriculture and the suffering inherent in it. But what shocked me in some ways even more was that nobody I talked to was willing to hear what I had to say. These were people just like myself who were fundamentally compassionate and concerned about justice. And I realized that there was something much more going on.

And that led me to study psychology, the psychosociology of violence and nonviolence, which led me to discover what I came to name carnism, which is the invisible belief system or ideology that conditions us to eat certain animals. Carnism essentially blocks our awareness and blocks our natural empathy for those species we've learned to classify as edible. And it's very complicated psychologically, right? Like it's such a bizarre, I mean, like our journeys and our paths and our experiences are very different. But one point of similarity is that, you know, I got into this not out of a sense of injustice or, you know, an ethical or moral reason. It was a health-oriented reason. And when you say

you got sick, I mean, you can get a stomachache, like you were hospitalized, right? I was hospitalized, right. So, it was kind of a serious condition. Mine was different, but that's what brought me into this. And then it became a journey of kind of opening up my eyes and starting to learn about everything else that was going on that was and realizing the extent to which I had been living in so much cognitive dissonance. And when you have that kind of epiphany, you start to talk about it. It's not a very popular subject, right? And so what are the roots of that kind of psychological cognitive dissonance?

You know, we sort of are inherently compassionate. And yet throughout our day, we're acting in ways that are at odds with perhaps a set of core values that we would articulate to our friends at a cocktail party. Yeah, exactly. I mean, carnism is a, it's actually a simple concept to understand. Carnism is a, it's actually a simple concept to understand. If you understand the way belief systems generally work, carnism, it's a dominant belief system. That means that it is, it's embraced and maintained by all of the major social institutions from the family to the state. So it's really like woven into this belief that certain animals are meant to be eaten is, um, you know, really woven through the very fabric of society. And it therefore becomes internalized when we're born

into a carnistic culture or society, we learn to look at the world through the lens of carnism. And as you rightly point out, we, um, humans are naturally empathic. We know today that empathy is our natural state. We're hardwired to feel empathy for others. And what carnism does is it uses a set of defense mechanisms. These are psychological defense mechanisms that distort our perceptions and numb our feelings so that we act against our core values of compassion and justice, that we disconnect from our natural empathy that we act against our core values of compassion and justice, that we disconnect from our natural empathy when we eat animals.

And, I mean, the beauty of understanding carnism or of carnism awareness is that once we name it, once we recognize these defenses for what they are, they lose a tremendous amount of their power over us. And when we free ourselves of this carnistic mentality that we've all been indoctrinated into, we can make food choices that reflect what we authentically think and feel rather than what we've been taught to think and feel. So it's tremendously liberating for us as individuals, as well as obviously for the animals and the planet. Named one of 2011's 100 most influential people in the world by Time Magazine, Rob Bell, at RealRobBell on Twitter, is a pastor who has presided over mega congregations,

toured with Oprah, and been profiled in The New Yorker. iTunes named his podcast The Robcast, one of the best of 2015, and he has penned more than a handful of New York Times bestsellers, including Love Wins, the Oprah Book of the Month, What We Talk About When We Talk About God, and his most recent book, How to Be Here, a guide to creating a life worth living. Rob is just amazing, truly one of my new favorite people. And this is definitely one of my favorite conversations this year. So enjoy this slice of the pie. Yeah, so giving sermons wasn't a normal thing. But I got up to give this sermon and was like, I was wearing Birkenstocks. I took off the sandals because I was like, this sense of holiness, like this sense of sacred,

like, oh, this is what you're here to do. It was like that. It was that sort of strong. You knew immediately. Yeah. Was it like, it was in a church? No, it was out in a woods. It was like a bunch of logs that somebody had arranged in the round.

Like you could sit on these logs and somebody could stand in the middle of these bench log things and talk. So did you prepare something or did you just get up there? Yeah, I did prepare something. Channel the Lord. The first, no, I remember walking around that week. I remember walking around that week thinking,

what do you say? Like, I guess, do you want to inspire people? You want to give them? And my opening story was about a kid whose counselor had gotten so angry with him. He'd hung him in a tree by his underwear. That was like the opening story. So that was like the bar had been set. But I, you know, actually I talked about rhythm of life. I have the notes. I found the notes. I've kept them for 25 years. I talked about a rhythm of life and that there are these rhythms in the ancient Hebrew tradition. They have Sabbath, a six and one rhythm of life, but it was, if you violate, if you don't care for yourself,

you'll probably lose your mind in some way. Um, that if you just work every day, all day, you'll burn out. Um, and it was, there was some sense like this was an art form. I felt like I was tapping into an art form that I'd never seen somebody treat as an art form. I'd seen people do sermons that were basically, here's who you should vote for. I had seen sermons that were basically, here's what you're supposed to believe. And if you don't believe something horrible is going to happen to you when you die. I had seen sermons, which were, here's how you raise money to build a bigger building at a fist complex. I had seen, um, sermons that were doing these other things,

these templates that are kind of right. Culled from a tradition of, you know, political campaigns. Exactly. Here's how we're going to take back America. We're always taking back something. You're taking back the constitution. We're taking back something. And I'd seen the sermon as a belief affirmation device, which is just tell people what they've heard every Sunday, all their life. And then all of you have a great warm feeling that you're in and everybody else is out, that you're right. Everybody else is wrong. I'd seen this, but I had some sense, like I was like, no, this is an art form and it's actually when you think about Martin Luther King I have a dream that's a sermon but nobody heard that and then said I don't know he was funnier last week you know what I mean like that wasn't like a you sit there and just sort of that was

an event it was a happening it was somewhere between performance art and guerrilla theater it was a vision of a new kind of world, but it was provocative and comforting and healing. And you learn something, but it also shook you up. And I had the sense, I was probably 21 or 22, oh, this is an art form. I'm going to reclaim this as the art form that it actually is. And not just how you build a particular religion. This is about what it means to be human. This is about what it means to be human. So maybe before we even go any further, we could sort of, you could just canvas like your, your basic, you know, perspective on all of this.

So people understand where you're coming from. Oh man, I begin by celebrating and affirming movement wherever you see it. And the idea that there would be truth or truth with a capital T and only these people over here in the corner would have access to it is completely absurd to me. And if there is a God source to being glue energy thread that holds it all together, that would have to be accessible to everybody. Or you're not talking about love. So I begin there and that you begin with inclusion and that we all at some level, we are all searching for the same things. And, uh, I, I just keep saying, God has all sorts of kids. I just start there. Um, and that you will find if your eyes are open, you'll find brothers and sisters all across the spectrum. And you'll find resonance with people who would seemingly come from all sorts of different backgrounds,

but you'll start talking, and when you love your neighbor, you'll discover all these threads and commonalities. And so I celebrate all that. How does the traditional Christian community perceive you and what you do? Oh my goodness. I mean, you're a controversial, polarizing figure, I would imagine. Sometimes when I go speak places, there are protesters out front. That happens pretty regularly. Yeah.

I mean, you're challenging a pretty entrenched status quo. I think a lot of people, they just know that the Jesus message hasn't, he's had terrible PR. So lots of people will like at an airport or wherever, we'll just say, thank you. People are very, very kind and grateful. And the Episcopals are like, Hey, we all think you're Episcopal. And the Anglicans are like, Hey, we all think you're Anglican. And the Eastern Orthodox is like, Hey, we actually think you're Eastern Orthodox. And the Pentecostals are like, Hey, we all think you're Episcopal. And the Anglicans are like, hey, we all think you're Anglican. And the Eastern Orthodox are like, hey, we actually think you're Eastern Orthodox. And the Pentecostals are like, hey, we actually think you're Pentecostal. That's what actually happens among religious people.

But you don't have a term for who you are. To also answer your question, like when I'm on tour, it's a regular thing for people to say, hey, can we take a picture together? And then we'll post it on Instagram. And I just want you to know that when I post this, I'll probably get fired. My family may not speak to me and then they'll stand there. And I always laugh, but lately I realized, Oh, that person is actually saying something really significant. That's a pretty bold thing to do. They're saying I'm growing and expanding and the world is getting bigger and better than it was.

And that means I may be at odds with my tribe, but I'd rather be alive and growing than back there. Because once you taste, you can't untaste. Once you see, you can't untaste. Once you see, you can't unsee. Ariana Huffington, at Ariana Huff on Twitter, with two N's, is the co-founder of the Huffington Post and a newly launched wellness endeavor called Thrive Global, thriveglobal.com, as well as a multiple New York Times bestselling author, including her most recent release, The Sleep Revolution, which unpacks the importance of sleep to optimize performance in every aspect of life. So obviously this conversation with Ariana was really focused on sleep. It was a very popular episode. And I hope you enjoy this little clip.

What is your routine in terms of, you know, preparing for that optimal night of sleep? why I don't like waking up with an alarm and I definitely do not go to my phone first thing even if I take just one minute to set my intention for the day remember what I'm grateful for it sets kind of a different quality to my day otherwise it's as though I'm saying the most important thing happening in my world right now is what the world demands of me as opposed to what do I want to create this day and I think the most creative people do not

run their lives based on their inbox and if you are at the mercy of your inbox you're going to be very transactional if you're going to be very transactional. If you're going to be creative. But so many people are.

Yes. It's so difficult to break out of that. And you pay a big price for that. Yes. So you need times when you're not going to be on your phone during the day, times when you can work on the things that really matter, and little breaks for recharging throughout the day i mean i like to start my day with meditation and my workout even if it's a 30 minute workout

and and and then i i like during the day to to sort of stay connected with my body and how am i feeling rather than operate completely from my head and allow the stress to become cumulative because that becomes the obstacle to sleep. We are all going to be dealing with stress. You know, nobody lives a life which is stress-free. The question is, how quickly do we course correct and how much do we allow that stress to build?

Right. I think that's the difference between holding on and letting go and you have this sort of uh beautiful quote by ray bradbury in the book which is that we should all be learning to let go before we learn to get right i love that and it's beautiful right the idea of letting go is so difficult for us uh in this in this era like i think a lot of people don't even understand what that means or they uh they equate it to some form of surrender or weakness so you know what does letting go mean to you and how does that apply to sleep how it's so central to sleep and And a phrase that I use is, life is a dance between making it happen and letting it happen. And it's the same thing.

It's like, I think we have the illusion that we make everything happen in our lives. And yet, if we look back, if I look back on my life, some of the best things that happened, I didn't make happen. And some of the worst things that happened, I didn't make happen. And some of the worst things that happened, I made happen. So I think the Ray Bradbury thing of letting go and for me means connecting

with something deeper in ourselves. And that's really the key. It's like recognizing that however magnificent our job may be there is something in us that's more magnificent and if we don't get in touch with that we're missing out if you had discovered these truths about sleep you know 20 years ago how do you think that would have impacted your career oh i think that there's nothing I have done that I couldn't have done and done it even better and done it with less damage to my health or my relationships or my joy and my sense of gratitude about my life. Absolutely. I mean, when I look back,

there is no question that falling into this delusion, this collective delusion that burnout and sleep deprivation are essential for success was nothing but damaging. Getting enough sleep doesn't mean that you're giving up your goals or your desire to achieve and succeed. On the contrary, it makes you more effective. It's a performance enhancer. Next up, we have Doug Evans at IamDougEvans on Twitter and Instagram. Doug is the founder and chairman of Juicero, the new Silicon Valley-backed technology company that is really redefining cold-pressed organic juice for the home and for business. Doug is a good friend. He's an amazing entrepreneur and an incredibly gregarious,

charismatic, dynamic personality, an extraordinary storyteller and conversationalist. So please enjoy this clip from our talk back in. So Entrepreneurship 101 is what is the problem you're trying to solve, right? And as you explained to me the other day so eloquently, when you want to buy juice, you have three options, right? You can go to the store and you have these pasteurized juice options there, a variety of quality level at price, et cetera. Secondarily, you can go to the juice bar where, as we mentioned, you don't know if it's organic, you don't know how long it's been sitting around, there's no accountability. Or third, you can make it at home and create a big amount of mess and waste, and it's very time consuming. So here's the problem. The solution that you're looking for and that Juicero hopes to solve for consumers is the ability to create the freshest, healthiest

juice possible in the most facile and sort of time-saving and mess-free way possible. Yeah, exactly. Is that accurate? And I think the insight, which is now obvious, I predict everybody will be doing this in the future. This is just changing the rules that, as opposed to making juice, we sell a juice press and we sell fresh produce that's washed and chopped and diced and then we allow the consumer to press the juice at home at their convenience and then we use software

to be able to track the produce from the supply chain so we know like every pack of Juicero pack of produce contains a little QR code on it. And that QR code can be read by a smartphone, Android or iPhone. And when you scan it, it actually says what ingredients are inside when it was packed and what are the nutrients and what farm each ingredient came from so it's like total visibility transparency in the in the supply chain so that you you can have that and then we put a scanner in the press itself so when you put the pack of produce in the juicero press, it's reading it. So it's processing all this information so that A, it can determine how to best press it to

get the most yield. And it's making sure that it's not expired because you don't want to be pressing old produce. And then B, it's sending back to your smartphone on the app, you know, what you just consume from nutrition and calories and ingredients. Right. A couple observations. The first is it's a closed ecosystem in the way that Apple sort of has created a closed ecosystem with its hardware and its software, right? Like this very easy to use, beautiful consumer experience that's completely contained. But my second observation is I'm not sure it's totally clear for the listener, so it's just to really paint the clear picture. The Juicero is a juicing machine that sits on your countertop in your kitchen.

It doesn't look anything like what you would expect a juicing machine to look like. It looks like a beautiful piece of technology. It looks like it could be an Apple computer. You're not quite sure what it is. But essentially, it has a door that opens up. It's a very heavy metal door, like brushed stainless steel with only one button on it. It opens up, and there's this orange interface with two pins. And that's where you stick in this packet of fresh produce that you guys produce and ship also uh and you close the door and it

presses the juice fresh it reads the barcode on the packet so you know it's fresh uh and then you can dispose of that packet uh and i guess the idea in the future is that it's going to be completely compostable right but right now it's but it's it presses all the liquid out of it and there's zero mess. So there's no cleanup whatsoever. When you're done pressing, you're done. You could go on to your next activity. The other observation I want to say is that when you're normally juicing using any juicer, you're doing the work. In this case with Juicera, you set it and let it. And the Juicera press does the work. So you could be, like, I can take a, I could, like, run, check my email, I can get dressed, I can do other things

while the press is actually going through its two-minute cycle. And if it reads the barcode and realizes that the produce is expired, it will not make the juice. That's correct. And it'll send you a notification saying, hey, but we'll also let you know that, hey, Rich, you've got a pack that's going to expire tomorrow. I suggest you drink it today. Okay. It's crazy. First of all, the thing is like a work of art. You did an incredible job with the aesthetics and the simplicity of it. It really is beautiful. incredible job with the aesthetics and the simplicity of it. It really is beautiful. And it's going to be, I really think it has the potential to change this industry completely. I mean, that is the big idea that, you know, the Kleiner Perkins of the world are sort of anticipating and banking on. Yeah. Well, look, I think for me, it makes it easier to consume

more servings of fresh fruits and vegetables. I think what we did was we made green juice taste good, like really good. And so people like we have a green in a recipe that has literally no sweet fruit in it at all. And it's 25 calories, sweet fruit in it all. And it's 25 calories, two grams of sugar. Not that I watch calories or that I watch sugar, but the fact that those metrics are so carefully viewed, we decided to see, you know, could we work within these parameters? And we did. And unequivocally, did and um unequivocally um people just go bananas when they taste that green juice and literally if you were to press it and then you know let it sit or wait like it doesn't taste good over time like it tastes amazing when you press it like that was the insight of not like selling juice but selling produce and selling a press and the system so that you can make the juice and and drink it right and this barcode will tell you does it tell you the

farm where it was tells you the farm tells you where it was picked and the date that it was picked yeah well all that you have all this all these metrics and every nutrient, like the nutrient breakdown. It's a very complex, complete nutrition panel. So you could see the percentage of vitamin A, C, B6, K, magnesium, potassium. And the other really interesting thing was this problem that you had to solve about how to create the the packaging membrane because you're putting live produce into these into the into this packaging right it's alive it's there is respiration occurring it's going to create these gases and it consumes oxygen right so how do you prevent them from exploding right how do you like that must have been an engineering and you know sort of feat to figure that out. I mean, we have seven food

scientists and 12 PhDs who work in the company. So this was literally, you know, it's one of the reasons why we had to raise capital, because we needed to be able to bring on the team. And that's what, you know, Kleiner Perkins and the other investors helped structure was, what does this organization really need to look like? And then what are the job descriptions of these people? And how do we fill these roles? Right. It's fascinating. So here we are on the eve of the public announcement. I feel so privileged to talk to you, you know, because as of right now, the public is unaware of what this product is. But tomorrow morning, people are going to know.

And I'm going to give you a link to a video that you can share with the viewers that will actually let them see it. And it's a little comical, but it'll show the process. And how does it feel to kind of be carrying this whole thing on your shoulders, right? This is a massive organization. I mean, you're a juice guy. You're a graffiti artist making juice in Denise's apartment. And here you are now, the CEO of what, by all accounts, is a massive undertaking. And the expectations are very high.

Like, how do you, you know, what's your daily routine? Like, how are you navigating this? Like, what's your daily routine? Like how are you navigating this? Like what's your emotional state right now? I mean, I feel extremely like blessed wouldn't be like a strong enough word. I feel it's surreal. But I feel I've been given an incredible opportunity. I've worked hard to get the opportunity, but I think I'm humble and hungry.

My new friend, Chip Adams from Under Armour, said that in Under Armour they've got a cafe and they're called Humble and Hungry. And that you've got to be humble and you've got to be hungry. So I think for me, there's a lot of stuff to do. You know, I keep my life really simple. And it's all about like having mission and purpose. And, you know, when I look at how important it is for people to consume, you know, fruits and vegetables and organic fruits and vegetables and raw fruits and vegetables. Like that was my mission. And it really drives me.

Now let's visit with my good friend Khalil Rafati. Khalil is the founder of Sun Life Organics, which is a growing chain of organic juice bar cafes. He's also a recovering addict and alcoholic. And Khalil's story, his story of redemption and change is just super powerful. And it's trumped really only by his ability to tell it. So please check this out. And if you missed the full conversation, which is RRP 206 from last January, I strongly urge you to go back and listen to the entire thing. It's really just amazing. I don't even think it's so much about writing a book. I mean, I really, in my heart, hope and believe that this book is going to help people, and that's definitely the motivation behind it. I wanted to get my story out there because I think it's a powerful testament to the grace of God and to what recovery can do for people.

But just the catharsis that took place, just to get all of those stories out of my head. When I did the second and the final read through of that book, I cried. I cried. I was like, my God, I can't believe that happened. I cannot, like, I can't believe, like, I was reading today and I was getting all choked up. One of my, not one of my, my best friend in the world, Teddy Papenhagen, I write about him in the book. His mother, you know, my parents didn't want me when I was a kid or they didn't love me or whatever the story, however the story goes. And his mom, she let me stay the whole summer over there every summer. And she let me stay every weekend over there during the school year.

And she just was the most incredible woman ever. And I was reading the book this morning. There's a story about me and Teddy and they're getting drunk. Teddy's like a great guy and I was like the book this morning. There's a story about me and Teddy, and they're getting drunk. Teddy's like a great guy, and I was like the bad guy. He went to college, and I went to jail. But anyway, so I was reading about the country club where we grew up at and some of the stuff that happened, and he texts me. She's gone, and he meant his mom had passed because he had texted me last night that she

was real sick and she wasn't responding. And, um, and man, I just, I, uh, I just started crying. I just thought, my God, like here, you know, here is this woman who, who took this strange kid and just like, let him essentially move in. And she raised me like I was one of her own. And she's just, Dolores was the most amazing woman ever. And thank God she was there for me. Thank God I got some love and some nurturing as a child growing up. And there was a lot of other people like that who, it wasn't all bad. There was other people that, you know, kind of helped me along the way. This woman, Debbie, who took me in later, another guy named Gus, who was like a father figure to me. And I talk a lot about that in the book, but the point is this, I wanted people to know that, because I would read these books about these super

successful people and they had done these really cool things. And I'm like, yeah, but what about people like me that you're like, for the most part, they're just, you know, not, not smart, that you're like for the most part they're just you know not not smart not educated and really kind of born to lose i mean i had everything against me and uh and no type of nothing really real to communicate to to contribute so what do you do and i want people out there to know that no matter where you are in your life, that you can change. That was the whole point. That was the inspiration behind this book. You can change and you can do amazing things. And I'm unemployable. You give me a job, I'm fired within 90 days. I can't keep my mouth shut. I'm inappropriate. I swear.

I say stuff I'm not supposed to say. I have no filter. You cannot give me a job that I won't mess up. However, I employ over 150 kids today and they love it. They love their job. You go into my place, you've seen how happy they are. It's like an Abercrombie and Fitch catalog, like the most beautiful teenagers you're ever going to see making smoothies. And they're all happy to be there. They're all having a good time. They're happy. They're fit. And I think – I mean, look, we're talking about Malibu, California, Calabasas.

I mean this is where all the beautiful people live. So they have beautiful children and, you know, the beautiful children end up getting a job at a smoothie bar instead of, I don't know, working at a clothing store or whatever because it's a little bit more rewarding, I think, to, you know, to be around the energy of the fruits and the vegetables and all that. And they are beautiful and I don't want to take anything away from that. But more importantly, they're happy. They're happy to serve. These kids are brilliant and they're happy. They're happy to serve. These kids are brilliant and beautiful and happy. And I provide jobs for 150 of them. And I take care of my mom financially. I did some cool stuff for my dad, you know, a few years ago as well. But for the most part, like I take care of my mom financially. And that's the most incredible thing ever 10 11 11 years ago

I was newly sober and I was at marmalade cafe and I got a phone call from my mom she sounded terrible I'd never heard her sound so bad and she said that she had cancer and I didn't have money to go visit her and I didn't have money to help her and my mother was living in this place called Kenwood Gardens, which you and I would consider it a housing project. It's sort of one step below a housing project. And what was I going to do? Today, to know that she is living in a beautiful house,

and there's nothing in the world that she wants that I won't buy her. It's the most incredible thing ever. So for people who are struggling with weight, for people who are struggling with depression, for people who are struggling from addiction, alcoholism, whatever you want to call it, whatever it is that you're suffering from, you can change. And you can change in such a profound way that within a short period of time, you won't even recognize yourself anymore. And that really, as we're talking and I'm looking at you and I keep glancing down at the cover of that book of me with scabs on my face at 109 pounds. And I, I, I feel the power and the strength inside of me now

from sobriety, from health, from wellness, from good deeds, from esteemable acts. If I can do it, anybody can do it. All right, how are you guys doing? Are you still with me? I hope so. Good, because this next guest, Chris Guillebeau, I think you guys are really going to like.

At Chris Guillebeau on Twitter, G-U-I-L-L-E-B-E-A-U. As a global traveler, he visited all 193 countries before his 35th birthday. He's a New York Times bestselling author of several books, including The $100 Startup, The Art of Nonconformity, The Happiness of Purs pursuit, and his most recent work, Born for This. When Chris isn't planning the World Domination Summit, which is his annual gathering he founded six years ago that brings thousands of creative, remarkable people together each year in Portland, he is either traveling or writing about living a creative, nonconformist life on his blog. Chris is really great. I genuinely enjoyed getting to know him through this conversation and he does a really good job. What was the initial drive to visit

all these countries? You're laughing because you've probably had to answer this question a million times, but I'm interested in, you know, what, what sparked that and what you were looking to get out of that experience. And perhaps in retrospect, you know, how that, how, what you actually got out of it may be different. Well, I smiled because I wanted to not give you a road answer. I want to respect your listeners, right? I don't want to give you like, Oh, well, here's what I've said a hundred times. No, I'm really want to kind of consider it. I mean, the first part was I loved to travel, just travel by itself, exploration, discovery, probably like many people who are listening.

But then for me, where it became something greater was when I connected it to this structure of the quest. And that's when I got really excited because it seemed not quite impossible, but whatever is right below that, you know? And it seemed like I can do this. It's going to take a lot. There's going to be a lot of costs, you know, time costs, money costs, you know, sacrificing other projects, other things.

But I guess I just couldn't get it out of my head. And that's another thing that I have written about a couple of times. Like if you have this idea and you can't stop thinking about it, there's probably something to it. Like we all have crazy ideas. You know, they go away. We kind of realized like, Oh, not going to do that. But if it stays with you over time, then ultimately I think what led me to say, okay, yes, I'm going to go for it. Was this fear healthy or otherwise of regret and this fear of like looking back and saying like, I remember when I had this idea and I went to a bunch of countries. Yeah. But I never tried, you know, I never tried to do it. And I have, I have thought about that a lot because like there was no guarantee of success,

obviously. And if I had failed, that would have been disappointing, but I think it would have been far more disappointing to just have never tried it. you know what i'd like to know is in retrospect and now having you know i know you still travel extensively like what were you in doha like doha cairo bangkok yeah so you're still continuing this you know love of travel but having put a little bit of time between yourself and the completion of the quest, you know, what is your, you know, how has that colored your perspective of, you know, how we live in America and in general, you know, how you conduct yourself throughout your life, having immersed yourself in so many, you know, basically every culture across the world. Right. You know, in some ways, we talked about blogging being different than it was. I feel like the world is even different than it was a few years ago when I was doing this more actively because I am still traveling, you know, now, but I'm not going to Pakistan all the time. I'm not, you know, crossing Saudi Arabia into Yemen. I think for me, I mean, some of the lessons sound kind of superficial. I'm trying

to think about not to, you know, say them in the usual trite. Well, before I, you know, didn't know about the world. And then I went and saw that there were people that were different than me, but in a lot of ways that is kind of what it comes down to is, uh, just an awareness and a respect of, of, you know, different perspectives and not just in terms of like geopolitical things or religious things, but, but ways of life and culture and, you know, body language and, and how people communicate and how life is lived. And I'm kind of set in my ways, you know, like, I think there's this perception about me that I'm like this big risk taker and did all this stuff, but I actually have a pretty, you know, kind of standard routine life and those things can be disorienting when you

go and, but you have to, as you said, right. And so for me, it was, you know, first of all, the part of the quest, like embracing that discomfort, embracing that disorientation and saying, okay, what can I learn about this? Not just about the world, what are my big lessons of the world, but what, how is this affecting me? Um, as you said, like, what do I carry, you know, with that? Um, and then like, what's different now, you know, what's different now when I had that focus of going to everywhere, it was great. I love the focus, but now I have, you know, have something different. Shalane Flanagan at Shalane Flanagan on Twitter is a four-time Olympian, an American record

holder, and one of the world's most premier distance runners. Her diversity as a runner is absolutely unparalleled. On dirt, she's won collegiate national championships in cross country. On the track, she set American records at both the 3,000 and 5,000 meter distances. And on the road, she's broken American records in both the 10K and 15K and achieved two Olympic marathon berths, including her recent sixth place showing in Rio. Unbelievable, right? In addition to Rio, this past year, Shalane and her husband became foster parents to twin teenage girls. And Shalane, along with her co-writer and BFF, Elise Kopecky, released their New York Times bestselling cookbook,

Eat Fast, Run Slow. No, that's not what it is. Run fast, eat slow, right? You're Shalane and Elise. Well, there's a lot of people that listen to this podcast who are, you know, avid multi-sport athletes and, you know, it ranges from, you know, professional down to, you know, people that are looking at doing their very first 5k. So I thought it would be cool if maybe you could perhaps impart a little wisdom to those out there who are tackling their first running adventure, or maybe kind of address some of the most common mistakes that you see people make. some of the most common mistakes that you see people make? When people say if they want to like improve their running or enjoy or not just running,

but just want to improve their experience and be motivated to keep working at it. I always say that, and this is very biased, but I think that the, one of the greatest things you can do is find someone to do it with. It's just my belief. I feel that if you really want to enjoy it, you find a buddy and you have the accountability and you're going to push yourself harder than you thought you could and you're going to get more out of yourself and it's not going to feel like a chore. It's going to feel fun and it's just a better experience. Community, accountability, and the fun factor.

So that may be kind of a lame answer, but what about all these, you know, marathoning is very interesting because it's the one other than triathlon. It's like the one kind of event where the pros are amongst the mere mortals. So you've seen a lot of people, a lot of mere mortals running marathons, like in your observation you know you're when you watch that and you go why is that guy doing that doesn't he know that if he did this he could be so much better without having to really change anything i don't know if i've seen that have you ever seen i don't know at least he's shaking he's nodding yeah we talk

about like people like slamming stuff down right before they eat because they never eat before. Yeah, yeah. Well, people get so excited. They get to these big marathons, and they get to these expos, and they are enamored, and they want to try out every new gadget that there is out there, and they haven't trained with it the entire time. Right. And they're there.

They're going to do everything new on race day. And they're geeking out, and they are literally doing everything new on race day and i'm that that's true that's good at least i would have never thought of that they do everything completely different than what they did in training and i'm always shaking my head like what are you doing yeah never do anything new on race day the boston expo together and just like couldn't believe the number of free samples that people were like gathering in bagfuls as if they were trick-or-treating yeah yeah well that's that's what the expo is all about right do you um do you run with a heart rate monitor is heart rate monitor like a part of what you do it's not part of my training now it was when i was more self-coached so that's a great point i would

definitely recommend if you're being self-coached and you just need to monitor yourself the heart rate remover is a great asset and tool. It told me a lot when I didn't have a coach around, it would tell me the efforts and, you know, accountability of running harder or easier that I, what I need to do that day. So yeah, heart remover is a great, great tool, but I don't currently use it, but I can see where in certain circumstances it's, it's a great, what do you, what are some of your race day rituals? Race day rituals. You eat your oatmeal. I have my race day oatmeal for sure. I'm a little bit superstitious. I always like to have the number eight for some reason, whether it's on the, my hotel room number or my bib number. I have to like, like see it's like a omen to me if i see the number eight it's really good luck in chinese it's what the infinity sign and uh symmetry yeah and for some reason

whenever i've had the number eight but you can't control that no i know but that's great it's like this whether it's meant to be or not but that is one of my little superstitions but have you ever gotten the number eight and then had a bad race no no never no interesting uh but race day rituals no i mean i'm pretty normal i would think i would wake up about four hours before i compete um i'll hop in the shower just to kind of like wake myself up and grab my food, my breakfast, and then just kind of stretch out and get focused. I'm pretty, I know that a lot of things could, could go wrong. So I try not to be too rigid, like, or not go wrong, but things can always change and you have to be adaptable. So I try not to get too rigid about my schedule.

And always eating the same thing never doing anything new hopefully getting number eight right so maybe walk us through a day in the life of food um i feel bad that elise is sitting there quietly so i want to bring her back here elise can tell you what i eat on a day-to-day basis you want want me to tell you what? Yeah, no. Well, you know what I eat basically. Um, cause we outline it in the cookbook, right? Yeah. So Shalane's typical day, like if, if she's getting out for an early training session, she'll typically have a lighter breakfast. A go-to is, um, our can't beat me smoothie. And it has Shalane is a big fan of beets. They're really great. Um, great food for us. Pretty workout. Yeah. For athletes like who eats beets before workout, freak out when you go to the bathroom.

Yeah. Um, but this smoothie is, is really satisfying. It has almond butter in it and coconut water and frozen blueberries, frozen banana beets. Um, so it gives you a really good energy boost and the,

and the ginger is great for digestion and great for fighting inflammation. Um, it's really hydrating. And the fat in there from the almond butter really keeps you satisfied longer. So that's a good quick right before heading out the door for a workout. She has that or her famous race day oatmeal bowl, which is oats mixed with banana and almond butter and any variation of toppings, honey or cinnamon or, or nuts, um, dried fruit. And then typically like a heartier, um, breakfast or brunch or lunch when, when she gets back from training, depending on what time of day that is.

So, um, a go-to is definitely a big grain salad because you can make it in advance and have it ready to go when you walk in the door as an athlete, there's nothing worse than walking in the door and being hangry and having to, um, cook something you're that's when you're likely gonna grab a bag of chips and inhale it as fast as possible. Um, so having, um, I've taught Shalane to, to cook in big quantities and have it ready to go when you walk back in the door from a workout. So, um, a big hearty grain salad or a quinoa salad. One of Shalane's favorites from the book is the wild West rice salad, which has, um, rice and edamame, which is a great combination. Cause then you get a complete protein and all of our, um, salads and the salad sounds like light.

And you would think like, as an athlete, like that's not going to satisfy me after a run, but when you're using a, like a homemade rich salad dressing with olive oil, you're getting a lot of really great nourishing fats in there. And that helps a lot of people don't think of fat. They think of protein, protein, protein for recovery. But fat is just as important. So that's a good lunch. And then Shalane always has a snack before her second run of the day. And it's we have a, we have a big section in the book called wholesome treats because

that was Shalane's like, that's her chapter. She gets a craving for, for a sweet treat, but we, we want to make sure that we're providing foods that are easy to digest. So all of our wholesome treats are free of refined sugar and refined flour, which is just empty calories. And instead we use a lot of almond flour. We use whole grain flours and we sneak like veggies into, into our wholesome treats and they're really satisfying. And we use a lot of coconut oil and, and coconut flakes and things in our treats. Do you, for sweet sweetening, what do you use? Like dates and honey and things like that? Yeah, so Shalane loves the Giddy Up Energy Bars,

which are made with dates. Our other baked goods we use either, we have an amazing granola recipe in the book that's vegan, and it's made with coconut oil and molasses, and molasses are an incredible sweetener for athletes because they're really high in iron. And especially for Shalane training at high altitude, she needs a lot of iron in her diet. And then honey and maple syrup are less refined, so you're getting good minerals in there, and it's not going to give you the sugar high in the crash.

It's going to stay with you longer and have more sustained energy. All right. Finally, to round out part one of the best of 2016, we got none other than Steve-O. Steve-O himself. But that's not it. Not just Steve-O. Steve-O and his dad. Right?

Think about that for a minute. At Steve-O on Twitter. How to describe this person? Let's see. Well, I guess it's fair to say, I think you can call Steve like our modern day court jester. He is one of the stars of the Jackass movie franchise. And in those movies, you might have seen him setting his head on fire, back flipping off buildings, snorting wasabi, leaping off bridges, removing cars. This is a guy who even stuck a fish hook through his cheek.

He's put fireworks where they should never go. And really, let's just not talk about what he did with a stapler. But this conversation goes beyond all that. It's really an effort, an attempt to transcend, you know, quote unquote, Steve-O, the character, to go behind the clown, comedian the stuntman the provocateur to connect with steven glover the real dude right so in the words of steve-o yeah dude at that predisposition at all like did you go through that thing of like i'm getting sober i don't know if i can do these stunts anymore or has it changed your relationship with that desire for attention uh i think that before sobriety i

think i just genuinely didn't uh believe that i was gonna live for very long you know like uh one way or another i just thought that i just wasn't gonna like uh that i was gonna die fairly young so i was never really driven to try to like uh hoard or hoard money and and i just wasn't like particularly motivated by money i've wanted like to have a legacy like forever and so the video camera for me it was like all the video every project like man it's like my message in a bottle and when i'm dead this is gonna i'm gonna live forever and so i was really hyper focused on that. But has your relationship to what you do shifted as you've gotten more sober? I think that as a function of being an artist,

I guess, I don't know. I just say it a lot. I think that there's the artist, and then, like, there's this whole new kind of arena of, like, the person, which I never made room for before, you know? It was just constant, 100%, never turn off, you know? It was just always on and always, like, the persona of Steve-O. And now I think that, you know, there's, like, a really,

like, there's been, uh, you know, there's like a really, like, there's been like, like, you know, like a concerted effort to, uh, to find separation between the persona and, and like the person. And, um, and it's a struggle, man. You know, it's a struggle because like, I'm still the attention whore. Like, I'm still like, like, ah, I gotta do this. I gotta do that. I still just have aching desire to matter. To matter and to be known and to be revered. And it's really hard for me to back off of that. But progress is being made.

Is that where the meditation comes in? You feel like a tm right i do yeah uh-huh and uh and i struggle with that you know i mean i do it i stick with it and you know like um like i'm i'm fairly diligent about it but but it doesn't come easily to me you know i don't i don't know i think alcoholic and meditation is a tough mix. I think it's hard for everyone. Yeah, I think it's particularly hard for somebody who's prone to the obsessive mind. Sure.

But you're like hardly somebody eight years ago that somebody would have said, Steve-O's going to be doing TM. Right. I get it, man. I get it. And I'm so glad that I do. Even when meditating is terribly difficult and when I'm like, oh, my God. I'm just so glad I'm doing it. Let me get back to this thing about the persona.

I mean, Steve Glover is a totally different person from Steve-O. And those boundaries are pretty clear. What I think you're wrestling with now is that in between those two boundaries, there's kind of a gray zone. And Steve Glover never invades the turf of Steve O, but Steve O can slip across the lines of the Steve Glover. And to me, that's more a fine-tuning thing than a fundamental change i think the fundamental change has taken place i think it's trying to maintain the boundaries

that is yeah i don't i don't i see it as such a such a gnarly uphill battle and and uh i really do because um you know like it's it's the, and I would compare like, like you, like you, you've always emphasized how important it is to have hobbies and, uh, and, and interests. Yep. Uh, because like you, you, you know, you refer to countless people that you've known in, uh, in the, the business world who had job titles, who were very prestigious in their careers, and then from the moment that they retired or lost their job, whatever the case may be,

as soon as they didn't have that prestigious job title anymore, out the window went their whole identity, all of their self-esteem, and without hobbies and interests, they were just depressing like depressed lumps who just like had lost everything putting it into a one-liner sound bites are good there's two kinds of retirees those who are enjoying life and those who are waiting to die well right sure but but now like that's what what i relate to is um is to is really that.

What you're talking about is the guy who had the prestigious job title who no longer has it and now is depressed and his life is miserable. I think of that because when your identity, when your happiness, when your fulfillment in life comes from the validation of external sources, be it people for the prestige you carry, that's an issue. We call it, in our terminology, we call it emotional sobriety. You can't be emotionally sober so long as you derive your fulfillment, your happiness, your serenity from external validation. And by the virtue of being an entertainer whose career is in the entertainment industry it's really difficult

to juggle that because like because my livelihood is in the validation of external sources yet like that's not where so that the happiness needs to come from within like we're very clear on that and for me like the happiness it's like the the flow of happiness and fulfillment needs to cease to come from the value of steve-o the commodity and the entertainment industry and really needs to begin to come from from inside steven glover and without external validation all right you guys we did it i hope you guys enjoyed this look in the rear view part two of the best of 2016 with a bunch more awesome excerpted conversations will be up later in the week late wednesday night december 28th to be exact in the interim please make a point checking

out the show notes on the episode page at richroll.com i've got hyperlinks to all the full unedited conversations that were excerpted here today. And in the meantime, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing the show with your friends and on social media. Thank you for leaving a review on iTunes. Thank you for subscribing to the show. Thank you for using the Amazon banner ad for all your holiday purchases or by going to richroll.com forward slash Amazon. We really appreciate that. And mad love to everybody who has contributed to this show, to this mission, to the work that I do on our Patreon page, patreon.com forward slash richroll. If you'd like to receive a free short weekly email from me that includes tips, tools, resources, things that

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And theme music by Annalama. Thanks for the love, you guys. I'll catch you in a few days. Until then, seasons, greetings, happy holidays, merry, merry, peace and plants. Thank you.