The Rich Roll Podcast - The Fiction of Moderation: Thoughts on The Iron Cowboy, How To Discover Your Passion & Raising “Out of the Box” Kids

Episode Date: July 30, 2015

We're back with yet another installment of Ask Me Anything, a twist on my typical long-form interview format where Julie and I engage you — the listener — by addressing the topics and questions you want discussed. As a person prone to extremes, I have been spending quite a bit of time lately pondering the importance of balance and moderation in living an optimally fulfilling life. What is the role of balance when you are pursuing your best self? Is moderation in all things truly an aspirational path? In short, I am starting to question the premise. This week Julie and I discuss this personal conundrum at length. Our conversation also explores: * my experience with Iron Cowboy as he completed his historic 50/50/50 * Julie's perspective on crewing for me at Ultraman * stoicism & overcoming obstacles * how to best serve the needs of “out of the box” children * the exploration required to discover your passion * how distractions negatively impact our life path; and * how to meet the social challenges of living plant-based Special thanks to Nanette, Doug & David for this week’s questions! The show concludes with Beloved, written and performed by Julie, aka SriMati, accompanied by Mark Schultz and our sons Tyler & Trapper Piatt. I sincerely hope you enjoy the conversation. How do you define balance? I would love to hear your thoughts in the comments section below. Peace + Plants, Rich

Hey, everybody, it's Rich Roll. I'm back with another edition of Ask Me Anything with my sometime co-host and always time wife, the lovely Julie Pyatt. Hey, Julie. Hi, Rich. How are you? I'm good. Are you psyched to answer questions today?

I am. I'm super psyched to be back. Well, we've been keeping a torrid pace with this two episodes per week, which is exciting. How are you doing with that? We're getting into a groove with it. That's cool. I think it's good. Yeah. I think so.

How are you doing with that? Putting out more content. We're getting into a groove with it. That's cool. I think it's good. Yeah. I think so. So thanks, everybody, who has left us nice comments, who's reviewed the show on iTunes.

We appreciate all the support. Yes, thank you. Thank you for subscribing on iTunes, for telling your friends, for spreading the word, and for always clicking through the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. It's a super great, totally free way to support the show. All you have to do is click the banner ad at richroll.com. You can bookmark it to your browser. That way you don't have to always come to my site. It's just right up there.

And then when it comes time for you to make that purchase on Amazon, like perhaps maybe you're purchasing a copy of The Plant Power Way or Finding Ultra, Amazon kicks out some loose commission change. It doesn't cost you anything extra. So it's really cool. Also, I never mentioned this, but you can also donate to the show. We have a donate button on the podcast page. So for those of you who want to go the extra mile and show the love, we appreciate that too. Thank you, everybody who has made that effort. We do appreciate it and allows Rich to keep the

content coming. That's right. It puts wind in the sails of the two episode per week schedule that we're on. That's right. It's a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we have lots of stuff to talk about today. But I think we want to kick it off with a surprise trip out to Utah to support the Iron Cowboy in completing his epic 50 Ironmans in 50 states in 50 days. Unbelievable. It was unbelievable. Heroic.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I didn't tell James that I was coming out. I just wanted to surprise him and surprise him I did. If you haven't listened to the Iron Cowboy episode of the podcast, I believe it's episode 149. I'm not sure. I think it is. It was a little while ago, but not that long ago. Maybe go check that out. We recorded that conversation about, I think it was like two months before he even began this Herculean crazy endurance fest challenge that he took upon himself. And it was an honor and

a privilege to be there in Utah, run the marathon with him, and kind of cheer him on to completing what quite honestly, I think is perhaps the greatest, if not the greatest accomplishment in voluntary endurance history. And I say voluntary because humans have had to endure terrible, awful things involuntarily. This is something that he signed up for. Yeah. So I don't want to draw, you know, any allusions to some of the terrible plights that humans have been compelled to endure against their will. So this was something that he wanted to do. And he followed through on. And as I said, in the original podcast with him, and I put in the show notes to that episode, because people were always asking me, like, do you think he can do it? Do you think

he can do it? And I was honest. I said, I think that based on what I knew about him, which wasn't much because we had just met, but I got the feeling that he was certainly more than capable of doing 50 Ironmans in 50 states. But I had trouble wrapping my brain around the idea that he was going to do it without a single day off. To me, it seemed like maybe after five or six or ten, he was going to have to take a day off. And then after that, maybe every fourth or fifth one, he would take a day off. And I kind of felt like maybe he even knew that in the back of his mind, but that he just wanted to establish the goal and do his best towards achieving that. But that at some point, it was going to be inevitable that he was going to need a day off just to sleep. No day off. No day off. He did not take one single day off.

And the reason that I said that I thought he was going to need a day off is because you're just going to meet so many obstacles along the way. It's just impossible to not face certain things that you could not have anticipated that might require taking a little extra time. And he met obstacle after obstacle after obstacle. This was not an obstacle-free adventure by any stretch of the imagination, but he didn't let any of those obstacles waylay him. He just kept on point.

It's truly magnificent. Yeah, he crashed his bike once. He got pulled over by the cops on the first day in Hawaii. There's all kinds of crazy stories. And I'm actually flying back. Today is, what day is it? It's Tuesday today. It's the 28th of July. And on Friday morning, I'm going to fly back to Utah and sit down with him and do another podcast. I wanted to do it the next morning after he completed the challenge, but he texted me and he was up for it. He said, totally, we got to do it. But he texted me in the morning and said that he lost his voice because he stayed late.

Like I left at like maybe 1030 at night and he was still there. There was probably 150 people still there who wanted to talk to him and take pictures. And I have a feeling he stayed until everybody had left. It's incredible. And talked to every single person that wanted to talk to him. So when he woke up the next morning, he couldn't talk. So we had to scratch the podcast. But I really want to get it while it's hot.

You know, I want to capture his reaction and his emotions and hear the whole story while it's still super fresh. And I think I'm going to do it with his wife, Sunny, and his crewman, who he calls the wingman. But in any event, just to take it back to the experience of being there. I mean, it was really, uh, I just feel I'm so grateful that I made the decision to go out there and be there. It was really cool. So I flew in on, uh, Saturday morning. Um, I couldn't go the night before to be there for the whole day because our daughters were in a play, which was beautiful. Right. So we got to watch them in their in their play. They were in an acting camp all summer. Flew out the next morning and went right to kind of the base camp.

Got there about 20 minutes before he completed the bike and saw him get off the bike. He saw me. We got to I got to give him a hug. And he said, he goes, I knew you were going to come in. I knew it. I knew it. I had a big smile on his face, which was really cool. And I caught that on video. And then went out and I ran about 95% of the marathon with him, which was really an extraordinary experience of just getting to spend some time with him and a whole bunch of other people, including all of his crew guys, to kind of celebrate the completion of this. And while I was doing it, I made a Snapchat story, which I posted on Facebook. But most of the filming that I did, I did with my Canon camera and with my GoPro.

So I'm in the midst of putting together a video of what that day was like. So hopefully I'll have that ready in about a week or so. Once I get the podcast episode with James, I'm going to put that up as soon as possible. And hopefully I can premiere that video at the same time that I release the podcast. So that should be really cool because I got some great footage, including I was running like right behind him as he completed it at the very end. So I got the finish line. I got lots of great stuff. So super cool. But in any event, it was amazing. When I got there, there were about maybe 100 and 150 people at base camp, and he's got his big RV and there were all these tents set up. His sponsors all had tents there.

There was a DJ who was playing music. And I thought, Oh, my God, this is crazy. Look at all these people here. It's like a big festival, like a party. Little did I know that people continue to show up throughout the afternoon, when we were out running, so that by the time it came to the very end, and the way he does it is when he had 5k left in the marathon, he stops, and then everybody can run the 5K with him. There were well over 1,000 people there. It was insane. That's amazing. The cheering and just the noise level and the amount of love.

I mean, it was really beyond anything I could have imagined. It was really quite stunning and astonishing. That's so beautiful. It's powerful. Yeah. And you know what struck me about him was that I've been thinking a lot about stoicism lately because I had Ryan Holiday on the podcast. He came to the house the other day and I did an interview with him. I haven't posted that interview yet, but he wrote a book, kind of a modern take on the philosophy of stoicism. The book is called The Obstacle is the Way, which is a great book. If you're looking for a book,

you should definitely check it out. And I'll be posting that podcast soon. But I've been kind of thinking about those ideas as a result of that conversation and having read that book. And I don't know whether James has ever read a stoic text in his life. I mean, these are the works of Marcus Aurelius and Epictetus and Seneca, who were kind of deep thinkers back in the days of the Roman Empire. But they put together a really practical kind of guide to how you're living your life. And at the core of that is this idea that we should perceive obstacles as simply in neutrality, as simply opportunities to move closer towards your goal and learn something

in the wake of it, as opposed to looking at them as failures or terrible. It's about reserving judgment and kind of staying neutral and in your power. And as I observed James, like throughout that afternoon, I was like, this guy is perhaps one of the greatest living examples of that Stoic idea and philosophy of anyone that I've ever seen. Even if he's never read a Stoic text, he is living that ideology in such a powerful way. living that ideology in such a powerful way. And it reminded me of the way that Russell Crowe

acquitted himself when he played Maximus in Gladiator, like that quiet strength where you just know what your mission is and you have sort of compassion and grace, but you're standing in your power, right? With conviction, because you know what your destiny is, you know what your goal is, and everything else is just noise, right? And it was amazing because he really kind of demonstrated that character trait in a really powerful way throughout the afternoon. And Maximus in Gladiator is modeled after Marcus Aurelius, like that's the model for it, who wrote Meditations, which is, you know, perhaps one of the most predominant texts on Stoicism, which was really cool. It's amazing. So anyway, that's what I've been thinking about.

Profound. Yeah. Beautiful. So, yeah, when he finished the marathon, I mean, it was sort of like when you watch the Tour de France and the cyclists are cresting one of the epic climbs and all the crowds are kind of in the road, you know, and you have that tracking shot from the camera from the moto behind that rider. And you see all the people. And it looks like they're going to ride right over the people because there's so many. That's what it was like when he was running through the finishing shoot of this marathon. He was just high-fiving everyone. And the noise was just deafening.

It was crazy. That's so beautiful. Yeah. So incredible. And the thing is, when I got there, I hugged Sonny, Joe, his wife, and she's like, oh, he'll be so surprised. And, you know, I got to spend time with his crew guys because this is very much a team thing. And we're going to talk a little bit about that. You can't do something like this alone, certainly. But what was I going to say?

I totally lost my train of thought. Say something quickly while I get my act together well i mean i just think i i think it's it was so gorgeous when we we were coming back from the sun valley wellness festival and we ran into james and sunny joe and all the kids in the airport and it was so the thing that i was so psyched about and just so inspired by was that he planned all this around his family. So it's like, the reason that he told me that he was doing 50 states in 50 days is kind of like he had to because the kids, that was the kids schedule in the summer, and they had to complete it in the summer. And to see these beautiful children and this family embarking on this insane odyssey,

and all of them signing up and being there to experience it together. It just it really, really touched me just as a family experience and an example of how to live, you know, as a tribe living in community and love and support. And so, you know, I posted something on Instagram yesterday, that photo with the family. I posted something on Instagram yesterday, that photo with the family. And, you know, it's really this whole experience belongs to all of them because you're not an athlete or you're not an individual who endeavors to do something that far out of the box without the support of your family and without also the sacrifice of your family. It's sort of everybody has to, you know, weigh in to support that and have the heart and the spirit and the vision. And I know that having his children there on the crewing for him had to be a huge motivation and huge inspiration. And I know from our experience, my experience of crewing for you is I came to know you in a different way that I never did before. is I came to know you in a different way that I never did before.

And, you know, thank God that we had the boys there, you know, that we were with you when you did win that stage, you know, in Ultraman. Because if we hadn't, you would have just been by yourself. I know. Because these events. Well, I would have come back and, like, said, you wouldn't have believed it. You would have been like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, well, that's cool.

Yeah, so, and also just, you know, and I mean, I can talk more about it, but crewing for you was one of the most exhilarating, crazy. I mean, I've done a lot of things in my life, but crewing for you was, was a whole nother level of being on it and energetic, uh, commitment to being with you with every pedal stroke, every, you know, every stroke in the water, every, every step, you know, and it was exhausting. And it was just quite amazing, the entire experience. Well, what James did just takes that to 10x level. But, you know, a couple observations on that. I mean, first of all, his family is extraordinary, and they did. They had

the adventure of a lifetime, you know, traveling through the 50 states with him and supporting him. And the kids got to have an expansive experience as well, because they would go off in each state and do something, right, while their dad was off doing whatever. His eldest daughter ran every single 5k

with him, did 55kss. And when he finished the final one, she ran through the shoot with him, which was really cool. And two of his daughters, once he finished, like, you know, it was a huge crowd of people congregating and he kind of stepped up on top of this like sort of box or something, had a microphone and gave a little speech. And a couple people got up and said some things. And then two of his daughters got up and they wrote a song about the experience that was like half rap song, half melodic song. And they performed it, which I got video of that too, which was really cool. His kids are awesome.

You know, they're awesome. And he said, and he said it many times, I'm sure he'll say it again on Friday when I talk to him, that, you know, one of the things that propelled him forward was knowing that his family had made this sacrifice and they were with him. And he didn't want to, you know, come back at the end of the day and have to face his kids and say, I couldn't finish today. You know, there was just that really was like a motivating factor for him in continuing to go. Um, but I did remember the other thing I was going to say, which was that, uh, Sonny and James and the crew guys like all told me like, you guys, you have no idea, like every state that we went to, like the people that came out, like overwhelmingly the overwhelming majority of the people that were out, like overwhelmingly, the overwhelming majority of the people that were turning up to support him state by state were people that found out

about what he was doing through the podcast, which is really cool. It's very gratifying and heartwarming to know that, you know, our support of him has made a difference in terms of people going out into the world and supporting what he was trying to do, which is why we're doing what we're doing. Exactly. It's an exact demonstration and that this medium of communication and sharing is that powerful and that, you know, that what you're sharing on your show and, you know, the things that we talk about and the people that we meet make a difference in people's lives. And you guys, all of you who went out, who, you know, made, who made the effort.

And I want to, I want to give a shout out to Julia Hanlon to Running on Om right now. She's like a super fan. She's been a super fan. And she's just, she's beautiful and adorable. And I've been on her podcast a couple times. And she podcasts from her bedroom in her parents' house, which is excellent. And she drew an animation of Rich and I. And it's on a T-shirt, which is incredible.

But when she found out about James, she got the plant power way out, and she made some energy balls, and she met him and ran with him. In two different states. Two different states. She met him in Maine, and then he called me from the marathon while he was running. He talked him on the phone. He's like, I'm here with Julia, which was really cool. Yeah, she made him food from the book, which was awesome. So your heart is beautiful and your spirit, and we really appreciate you and celebrate you.

Also, Rebecca Morgan in Hawaii. Rebecca, who was instrumental in Epic Five. Incredible, incredible woman. But she lives in Kauai. She was instrumental in Epic Five. Incredible, incredible woman. But she lives in Kauai. So that was the first date where James kicked things off.

And she took care of him and his crew and family. And she prepared recipes from the plant power away for him as well. Awesome, Rebecca. So he's like, I've been eating from your cookbook. And if you have followed the Iron Cowboy from the get-go on his Facebook page. I think when he started, he had 5,000 or 8,000 or something like that, maybe Facebook fans. And today he's got like 57,000. So his audience just grew and grew and grew. And you'll notice the number of people that showed up in each state grew and grew and grew. It was five people, it was 10 people, it was 20 people, then it 10 people. It was 20 people.

Then it was 100. Then it was 200. And then literally in Utah, like, I don't know, 1,000, 1,500 people. More than 1,000. Totally crazy. And to know that the podcast played a part in that is really cool because I think maybe he's doing some mainstream media, you know, now as a result of completing this. But this is an endeavor that was basically a social media grassroots kind of thing. Like, he wasn't on television, he wasn't getting written

up anywhere. It was really just online. And it really transcended sport, particularly endurance sport, like people that don't know anything about triathlon or sports like old ladies are like, Have you heard about the Iron Cowboy? Like everybody kind of knew about it, not because it was on the Today Show or Good Morning America, although it should have been I was saying like, when I was in Utah, like, why isn't? Why isn't there a crew from a national media outlet here? I mean, he had like little affiliate news people there and stuff. But nobody who you know, is on is it wasn't like CNN was there or anything like that. And I was like, this should be getting that kind of attention, but it wasn't. But it's so beautiful that

despite that, you know, irrespective of not getting that kind of spotlight, he still, you know, it became a national story online. It actually did. Through just people fascinated by what he's doing. So anyway. It's a great, great job, you guys. Yeah. Everybody who came out. You guys out there who went out and supported him.

Unbelievable. Yeah. And when I was in Utah, talked to tons of podcast fans and stuff like that, which was cool. But it was weird because I wanted to be there to support James and the attention should all be on James and his family and his crew. And I didn't, you know, it was like people wanted to take selfies, which is great. And I love it and all that kind of thing. But I was like, let's focus on James, you know, let's, let's put the attention on him. So anyway, it was an honor and a privilege to be there to, you know, kind of run a little bit with him and celebrate with him and his family. And I can't wait to go see him on Friday and get the full story. It's epic and historical and, you know, just groundbreaking and unprecedented, unprecedented performance and experience.

So, James, just so much love and respect for you. Yeah, nothing but love and respect. And for your whole family, Sonny, Joe, and all the kids. Totally. Okay, so let's get into some listener questions. We're going to kick it off with one from Nanette. Why don't you read this one? It's really long, but I kind of highlighted the parts about the question.

Okay, so this is from Nanette, my friend, Nanette from Austin. Hi, Nanette. So you wrote in about your daughter who's 17. She's always been quirky. She begged to be homeschooled. And you were so honestly saying that you just wanted her to suck it up and get through high school like a normal person. And I felt like she was being kind of difficult and stubborn. And so finally, she tried another public school. And she still hates it. And she hasn't connected with anybody. And she has anxiety attacks. And so you're asking, you're saying it's hard for you to let her be her, and you just want her to be like everyone else and feel so guilty for feeling that way. And that isn't how you are either. So you're asking me about my struggles with Mathis coming along and uprooting my parenting paradigm.

Yeah. So you're asking how you can get over your fear of losing your free time and your fear of this nonconforming school being acceptable, getting her father on board as largest problem that we have with education at the moment is parents. We as parents have so much neuroses wrapped up in education from our own experience that we project it onto our children. And we are living in a world that is moving so quickly, like it's at a much faster pace than it was when we were kids and we were in school. And also the standardized school model is an old paradigm. It was created for a different age. And so we're in a new age, and we're sending our kids to something that's from an old age. So I think that many, many kids are very unhappy in school. And again, we have we're sort of applying this old thought process like, well, you know, you need to go to school because you need to fit in and you need need need to be able to get the grades to compete. to compete. Sort of our whole focus is on that lens, when in fact, then we're out of, after we've dropped them off at school, many of us are going to yoga and meditating and talking about being

in the now and talking about developing ourselves. We're just going to work and trying to get the bills paid. Yeah, but just let me go down this road first. So, you know, we're talking about this, but it's kind of a double standard. So, we're living as creative people. We're expressing ourselves, but then we want our kids to go to this box. And I think if many of us asked ourselves the question, if we were honest, we would tell, we would know that we wouldn't spend five minutes in that box that we've sent them to. But that's the box where we drop them off where we get to go do what we do. So my perspective has always been that, you know,

preserve preserving a child's self esteem or preserving anybody's self esteem is the highest, like the highest act that that that I could give or that I could endeavor to, to create. And I think that many of us have had our self esteem hurt, and we've been wounded. And that's a lot, a lot of why, you know, we're so afraid, like, we don't want our kids to suffer the same, yet we're sending them into the same place, the same place. So, I think we have to get real and we have to walk our walk and we have to understand that, you know, none of us know how many hours we get on the earth. You know, it's not a set thing. And children have the right to live their joy today, right now, you know, as a child, as an eight year old, as a 12 year old, as a 17

year old, they shouldn't be suffering now to make it to some future point. So what I would say in that situation is if your child is unhappy, then you need to change the elements so that they become happy so that they become comfortable. And that looks very different, you know, for every single kid. But I think as parents, we would do our children a great service if we could let go of our own neuroses around what it means to be in school, what it means to graduate high school, what does it mean to go to college? All of these are titles and labels, and it might mean something to somebody, but it might not mean anything to someone else. Yeah, I think it's a case by case basis. I think in this particular case, you know,

my impression is that this is a 17 year old girl who is not fitting in to the structure, to the system, and that creates challenges with her ability to connect with other people. And that's resulting in guilt in the parent, but also confusion about what the solution is, right? So it seems to me that one of the first things to do is to try to help your daughter figure out what it is that she would like to be expressing more fully that is getting squelched by this school environment. And maybe there isn't an answer to that yet. In which case, I think giving the child like kind of a wider birth to explore her curiosities might be appropriate, right? Because if you've been in that system for that long, it doesn't encourage you to really connect with the things that perhaps might subconsciously be important to you. And those need to be able to percolate to the surface in an environment in which the child feels safe and encouraged to do that.

Well, and I think it also just comes to, I mean, the child's, you know, when you give your children the respect of a full human being, of a, you know, fully respected and what I want to say, like entitled human being, and I don't mean that in a negative stance. But, you know, give her a little credit. I mean, she knows she's 17. I mean, she's got to know something about herself. It's only like a year left of high school. Yeah. I mean, you know, and I find with my children, and even at a very young age, it's my complete offering of unconditional respect for who they

are. That is the very thing that bonds them to me so deeply, because I've given them the respect, I'm not saying you have to do this or do that, or be this way or achieve this. And then and then I'm going to recognize you, you know, I recognize them at the beginning before they do anything. And then at that point, it's just a matter of, you know, finding out what is, you know, what is your child passionate about? How can you redesign your life so that it fits in, you know, with the whole family and also supports what they want to do. And there's tons of resources now. There's all kinds of online programs that you can get. There's hybrid programs in many, many states, where you can actually have her do the work, but she never has to go to school. And that was the case with us. My older boys, they checked out high school, and they said,

Mom, we want to come home. We don't have anything in common with the kids there. We have no desire to be there. And they wanted to come home. And so they did their work. They stayed in the system. They did their work. They turned it in every month. And, you know, the teacher that they had, you know, was just raving about them all the time. You know, your boys are so amazing. They're so smart. They're so nice. They're so compassionate. They're so creative. She didn't want them to leave because, you know, it was so much fun for her to see them once a year or once a month. But these are all these type of kids. the kids are smart, and they're getting sick of it. They're getting a little done with the standardized education system.

Well, I also think in this particular case, like she's 17, like she's been in the system for her entire, you know, basically almost her complete completed high school education right so she's demonstrated uh unequivocally that it's not working for her so like let it go like it's not it's not gonna her path is not gonna be excelling in this system right like she's she's made it clear that you know her life path is gonna be something a little bit different and what that is remains to be seen. But it doesn't sound like she's going to find it by staying in the system. So, you know, relieve yourself of this obligation that you feel to see it through. And maybe, like Julie said, listen to her, entertain the possibility that what she's saying might be in her best interest. And that doesn't mean that you're abdicate, you know, responsible parenting. But if you can let her feel like she

has a voice, and she's being heard, maybe collectively, you can come up with a solution that will work for both of you. Yeah. And the other thing is, is, you know, an anxiety attack is not nothing. Okay, that's something very severe that the that's something she's trying to tell somebody something, right? So how many more anxiety attacks does she have to go to go through before it's enough, you know, before we're like, okay, she's she's saying something's not right with her. Let's help this being let's figure out what it is. And my experience, I know that it's a huge fear that when you homeschool, you lose all your freedom and you, you know, your life is over. And people look at me and they're like, oh, you know, she must be, you know, a Christian woman who loves to, you know, loves to school her kids.

And I love Christians and I'm happy for what they've done for the homeschooling movement, but that was not my entry into it. I would say that the gift that you're going to give, you're going to receive from recognizing your child in this expanded way is going to far surpass any free time that gets taken away from you. Because I know ultimately how important our children are to us and how much you love her and how much you only want the best for her, of course. And so when you stand for her, instead of standing for the system, she will recognize that and you will, your life will be enhanced by that. And that I promise you. your life will be enhanced by that.

And that I promise you. I think, you know, in rereading this email, it's sitting right in front of me. Nanette knows. She knows that this is the solution. I think there's just fear of making that leap of faith. And she's scared, right? So how do you make the leap of faith?

How do you bridge that gap? Just what I just said. I mean, look at the facts and look at what do you want to stand for and who do you want to choose? And I know you want to choose her because you wrote the letter in. And I also, you know, my guess is that she's probably highly creative and highly talented in many, many areas. And it's okay. You know, she doesn't have to fit into that box. That box isn't really leading anywhere. So just choose her and choose your and her relationship

over what society says that you have to do. And your husband will be scared. Men are, you know, they're always scared. They're always a little bit more scared. But, you know, ultimately, I know he loves her as well. And so she could, you know, she could take the GED. She could figure out how to do home study and just be done with it and not have to go to school and suffer, you know, whatever humiliations going on there. I mean, my kids went through it as well.

I mean, I went through it as well. I mean, who was popular in high school? Like not that many people. So only the popular group, which is not me. The popular people were popular. But not me. So, you know, she will appreciate it and your relationship with her will be enhanced by it. Cool. All right, let's move on to another question. This is from Doug in Virginia. Simple question. What if I don't know what my life's purpose slash passion is?

I know I'm horribly unfulfilled in my current situation, but have no idea where to go to resolve this. You and your guests are always saying, follow your dreams. I can't follow as I need to find my dream. Help! Exclamation point. So I think this is a common thing. I think it's probably more common than not. I think it's really easy to say, follow your passions, chase your dreams. I didn't know what my passions or my dreams were until very late in life. And part of that is because I was never in an environment that kind of encouraged me to pursue that line of inquiry within myself. And I think that people start to feel bad if they don't know what their passion is. Like, well, I don't have a passion, or I don't know what my passion is. So I don't relate to that, you know, that dialogue. So,

you know, I always say, if you don't know what your passion is, like, then you have to, you have to do some exploration, you have to do some exploration of yourself, both internally and externally, which means, you know, doing that kind of inside work, the meditation and the journaling. And as you begin to do that, like stuff starts to percolate up, you become more self-aware, like what made me happy as a kid? What did I used to want to do that I stopped doing? And you have to then face whatever fears you have around doing certain activities and start engaging in your life in a new and different way, which means trying different things, you know, taking on hobbies. It doesn't mean quitting your job overnight, but it means trying to, you know, engage that part of you. Just what makes you happy? It could be the simplest

thing ever. It was for me, like, oh, I like going to the pool and feeling wet in the water. You know, that made me happy. You know, for you, it's going to be something different. But I think that you have to start trying things, right? And keeping busy and being active, both internally and externally. And I think the more that you do that, and the more you say yes to whatever that intuition is inside of you that says, maybe I should do this or try this, even if you're scared. It's about having the courage to kind of follow that without knowing where it's going to lead you, but taking that leap of faith to, you know, do new things. Yeah, I think I agree. That's all really good. And, you know, also meditate. So I think what's happening is, a lot of us have had so much external influence projected onto us starts with our parents projecting their ideas of who we

should be in order to sort of make up for whatever our parents weren't. So like, for instance, in my case, my mother wanted me to be a businesswoman, which was informed from her life experience of being having to support her family when she was 16 years old in Chile in South America. So her entire conversation to me was about business. So if you look at my junior high transcripts in my high school transcripts, you'll see business law, real estate law, debate. They taught that in high school? Yeah, they did. They did actually. Are you impressed? See, East Anchorage High School. So who knew? But, you know, later, it wasn't until I was in my late 20s that I found out that I was an artist. I mean, I can't even believe I lived all of my life not even being, you know, that long not even being in touch with that. That's crazy to me. So I think what happens is, you know, things get projected from the outside, we get confused. And also, there's all this advertising. So you're looking over there like, Oh,

that guy is a shiny red bike. I want a shiny red bike, but you don't really want a shiny red bike. You want something totally different, but you've lost touch with that. So going back to what you love to do as a child is very key. That's very key. So what did you love to do as a child? That's a question that you need to find the answer to. that you need to find the answer to. And the second thing is, is that you need to meditate because you need to stop the external focus and go inside

because the answer to your question lies inside your heart. And only you have access to that information. Yeah, we're so distracted, you know, more distracted than ever, just television, radio, Facebook, you know, we're constantly inundated with stimuli from our cell phones, that it becomes increasingly more and more difficult to, to just find stillness. And the truth is, is that until you can make that commitment to find that stillness and carve out space for that, you will continue to be unable to answer that question for yourself. And if you try to answer it from your mind, you might answer it incorrectly, in which case you just create more karma for yourself. And you end up in a situation where you're, you know, it's like that, be careful what you wish for. And then you create a scenario and you're like, I don't even like this. Like, why am I doing this? So if you take some time to quiet your life and commit some time to

yourself, you'll find that thing. And it's different for everybody. It doesn't mean you're going to be a painter or you're going to be a singer you may be a person of service or you may be a priest or you you know you may uh you know you may be a gardener you may grow your own food you know yeah i think that it's important to point out that just because you have an instinct for something or an intuition or a craving doesn't mean that that is in your best interest. Because if you are distracted, if you are not in touch with who you are, then those impulses are not necessarily reliable. Right? Like you got to get right with yourself first so that that intuition is trustworthy. Right? Well, it's just like if you're, you know, if you're addicted to cheeseburgers and you say,

you know, well, I'm craving a cheeseburger, it's because you're out of balance. I must, I must, that must be in my best interest. That's what I need because that's what I'm craving. Or yeah, if you're, you know, surrounded by, you know, a lot of, if you're surrounded by people that are highly materialistic, then you're probably going to then think that what you really need is a Ferrari. And that's going to be your goal, right? So you can expend a tremendous amount of energy chasing the wrong thing, which is why the time invested in the stillness and in the meditation and in the journaling and all of that work that's not sexy or fun is so important. And the other thing I would point out that I think is helpful is to try to find people who are living inspiring lives. Like when you look at their lives, you're like it excites you to learn about that.

Like what are these people doing? What do they have in their life that you aspire to have more of in your own life? Yeah, and it's great to read, you know, not autobiographies like that, because they are inspiring. And you can see that I think a lot of times we project onto other people's lives that they're so different than we are, you know, like, oh, well, that guy, you know, had this or that woman was like this. And when you read these stories, you find out that, you know, humans are humans, people are people. And, you know, we all sort of want the same basic things and we all go through life struggles. So, you know, and triumphs and successes. So yeah, read, find someone who

inspires you and, and, and explore their life and, and then sit and meditate. And if you don't have a meditation, try our meditation at ritual.com, Jai Release. The other thing I would say is to go easy on yourself. Like, it's okay. If you don't know what your passion is, if you don't know what your, you know, what makes your heartbeat hardest right now, give yourself a break. You know, most people don't. That's the truth. And I think just commit to trying to answer that question for yourself. Be gracious with yourself, be easy on yourself, and be patient, because it's not going to come overnight. You're not going to wake up tomorrow with a lightbulb moment. Maybe you will. You might. But I think being patient and saying this is the long game that I'm going to play is important also. And be open.

Be open. All right. Here's another question. This is from Daniel. This is sort of a related question, I guess, in some regard. It's long, so I'm going to edit it. it, but was there ever a time where you felt as though the things you originally began pursuing to better your life, i.e. plant-based lifestyle or yoga, started to seem as though they were ruining your life?

So this is a guy who's kind of on this path. He's recovering from alcoholism and addiction. Two years into his journey as being vegan, roughly a year into a serious and consistent dedicated pursuit of trying to learn and live the eight-limbed path of yoga as a spiritual way of life. But now he finds himself re-evaluating everything and his preconceived notions about life have been shattered. And the idea of quote-unquote ruining may be too harsh a word, but I have felt recently that my passions for living a plant-based vegan lifestyle and yoga have brought to light many challenges for me.

The road for what's acceptable continues to narrow to the point that some days I ask myself, am I making my life harder than it needs to be by trying to live within the moral ethical boundaries of this lifestyle? How do you guys push through times like this that you may have encountered? Basically, he's asking about the dark night of the soul, essentially. So I would say, first of all, that I think you're on the verge of a massive breakthrough. I just want to share that. Because it's always when you get to that point where you, it's kind of like in the design, like you're on, you're on spiritual quest, and you're having all these experiences. And then all of a sudden, you're just like, okay, the only reason nothing's happened, and I'm having all this resistance. And the only reason that I'm that I even did this is because I

was unable to be successful in business. And so I've created this entire scenario, like as a, you know, as an illusion. And, you know, I think that what you're going through is part of the process. And it's really, really difficult. You know, we share your, you know, we share your pain, we empathize with where you are, because we went through it. And, you know, it's, it's not a straight line, and it's not easy, and you will be challenged to the ends of your ability. And what I would say is that it is absolutely worth it in every single facet, and that the liberation that you will experience at some point in your journey, I can't say when that is, whether it's in this life, whether it's in the next life, will far surpass any comfort, any illusion of comfort that you're getting from staying with the sheep in the mass herd. Right. You know, the idea of, am I making my life harder than it needs to be? Underlying that, implicit in that question or that statement is this idea that a life of ease is better or that, you know, we should try to sidestep the difficult times. But it's the difficult times that truly forge character, right? And I say embrace that, you know, because this is a critical moment. Like, it almost sounds like you're at a crossroads, where you're ready to hightail it

back and kind of retreat from this journey that you have embarked on. But in order to get to the other side of it, this is a test, like you to weather that, right? Is this truly your path? How much does this mean to you? And what are you willing to sacrifice for that? And that's what will forge your character and create that sense of strength and purpose that will inform your decisions later in life. So I think it's a crucial moment for you. I'm sure there were times during the Iron Cowboys 50-50-50 where he said, I wonder if I'm making my life harder than it needs to be right now.

Well, of course he was, right? And I'm sure there were moments where, you know, at number 18 or after he crashed his bike where he thought, like, what am I doing? You know, but it's only in seeing it through to its conclusion where you can then, you know, embrace the benefits of the sacrifice that you have made, right? And this gets into the whole, you know, life hacking debate, you know, that I find myself embroiled over where I'm like, stop hacking your life and invest in the journey. It's the journey that's beautiful. It's messy. It's hard. It's fraught with obstacles and fear. But, you know know signing up for that committing to it and following it through is really what we're here to do and it's the most beautiful adventure

that you can be on and that doesn't mean that you're going to be rewarded with financial gain or social approval but you will be but you will be rewarded with a sense of yourself that nobody else can provide for you. I would say, yeah, and your true freedom, you know? I mean, I think that's kind of the key experience that I endeavor to achieve, if there's any achievement in this life, is full freedom to be free, freely and fully yourself. And I would also add that when you're in this moment of venting and of just, you know, having enough, I call it kicking dirt. I was kicking dirt a lot. I would have moments. But be gentle with yourself and understand you don't have to be perfect in your warrior path. You don't have to be ethically perfect.

You know, when you say ethically, it makes me feel that maybe you might be have a little hardness in that area, you know, of holding like the ethical like you don't have to hold it so hard. You know, consciousness has it. So you can be human and you can nurture yourself and take care of yourself in healthy ways um you know you can cry you can scream you can shake your fist at god you can kick dirt a little and then you uh then you got to sign up again and if you're in then you got to sign up again and you got to begin again and you know being a warrior is a series of decisions over and over and over again to recommit and to begin again. Beautiful. All right.

So the next thing I want to talk about is balance. And this is really a synthesis of many emails that we've received, which vary. I mean, there's typically a variation on a theme of like, you know, I'm prone to extremes, I'm recovering from drugs and alcohol, or, you know, I was crazy into Ironman training, and now I'm trying to find more balance in my life. Like, how do you achieve balance? And this is something that I've been thinking more and more about lately. And it was kind of provoked by an interview that I did with a guy for Psychology Today magazine that went online. It was one of the most insightful interviews that I've ever done. This guy asked me amazing questions. And a lot of it

revolved around balance. Like, how do you see the function of balance in your own life? Because like many of these people who have emailed, like, I'm prone to these extremes, right? And so being extreme has reaped benefits for me. And it's also caused the most damage in my life. And I have always said, or I've said in the past, over the past couple of years, like, I'm trying to find balance now. Balance is the fickle lover that I'm always trying to court that I can't quite, you know, figure out in my life. And, you know, it's a bunch of spinning plates and I'm always trying to, you know, strike the right kind of balance with everything in my life. But I also think that in some respect, it's a little bit

disingenuous because, you know, I think part of my strength is that ability to, you can characterize it as being out of balance, but it's also, you know, an ability to focus and go to, you know, a certain level with something that's allowed me to learn about myself and achieve certain things. And when I look at what the Iron Cowboy did, well, that's not balanced. He's not living a balanced life. He did something super out of balance to prove to himself and to the world that something could be done. And so what is this whole idea of moderation is key in everything? Because I don't really think that that's true.

Right. So that's super interesting. Yeah. So what are your thoughts on that? I also read, like Joel Condis wrote an article somewhere that I read, and he said, when you go to the doctor, they always tell you, well, moderation is key in your diet. And he's like, no, it's not. Be extreme in your diet. And he's like, no, it's not, you know, be extreme in your diet, you know, love deeply, you know, like, don't be moderate in your diet, you're worth more, more than that. Be extreme in your diet. You will benefit from that. And, and when I and we, it's an interesting social thing, because

on the one hand, we love to see somebody like the iron cowboy do something amazing and then five minutes later we'll say well he was he's out of whack you know he's out he should be more balanced but like if you're not out of balance then you don't do amazing things okay but so i have a perspective on that so it's super interesting what you're bringing up and i i think it's fascinating and worth exploring. I think we need to ask ourselves, what are we defining as balance? So are we saying that that means every day has the same cadence as the day before? And that is that balance? Like it's just a life of moderation, and you do the moderation day in and day out, or for other individuals, or for other individuals possibly like you and also like me in many respects.

For me, it's an ebb and flow. So it's like waves coming. So life is like waves and energy is like waves. And so there are different times in the day, in one's life, in the year, in one's life, in, you know, in the year in one's life, that are appropriate for certain amounts of energetic output, and different qualities in that output. So I look at it like, let's take you as an ultra man, that you doing an ultra race is not not out of balance, you're in your output of massive energy. But I think the counterpoint to that, if you're living a life of balance would be that then you had an equal experience of yin energy. So like rejuvenation through panchakarma, or which panchakarma is like Ayurvedic medical

treatment. So massage and a very specific diet and meditation and really detoxing the body and rejuvenating the body as well. So not really detox, but really sort of rejuvenating the body in this case. So that could be a balance to a being like you, that could be a balance. And I would say yes, that James, the Iron Cowboy did something that was very out of balance however you spoke of his you were calling it stoicism which is that what you called it stoicism which means something

different to me it means something without joy so I don't maybe that's a mischaracterization of the that's asceticism it gets confused stoicism is different but that's a whole other conversation but I want to mention it because I think in common language, it has that tone to it. So that wouldn't be the word of my choice. But what I would say, which is what I always speak to in advanced spiritual practice, is that you cultivate the neutral, compassionate warrior who stays neutral.

neutral, compassionate warrior who stays neutral. So James is in that, in that grueling experience, but he's in his inner being, he's in a state of neutrality, which is really balance. So he crashes, but he's, you know, he's in that balance. So I think, I think it's a, it's a matter of defining what exactly is balance. And as your partner and someone who is here to reflect, you know, energy back, I have never had, I don't see you whacked out of balance when you're training, you're in your power, you're in your, you're in your bliss, you're in your Dharma, you're in, you're in that, that's great. I think you could counter, counteract that or counter support that with other yin activities that then that brings the proper balance. And we could all cultivate, you could cultivate that warrior neutrality as a natural default setting way of being in your life. And I'm even seeing it in the last actually couple months, you're

starting to display it, you're starting to embody it. It's coming out in the daily, in your daily manner, which is quite amazing. I think that the idea of moderation is a fluid concept that really requires analysis and further definition. Because if you look at basically just mainstream culture, somebody might say, well, I'm living a balanced life. I go to work. I've got kids. And it's like, all right, well, you're watching television five hours a day, you're eating junk food. And basically, you're, you know, you watch football all day on Sunday, like, whose definition of balanced is this, you know, or how are you defining a balanced diet? Is that balanced in terms of being sustainable with the best interest of our planet or your consciousness? You know, isn't being balanced, meaning that you're tending to your best interest in a body,

mind and soul capacity? Yes, in a whole way. Right. So that's one thing. And then on the other hand, it's also this idea of balance in the macro versus balance in the micro. And I talked about this with Dan McPherson when he was on the podcast a while ago. It was probably a year ago. But the idea that on a given day, if you looked at how I spent my time, it probably would look out of balance. Like maybe I'm writing all day or I'm training all day or podcasting all day or traveling or something like that. But if you look at a snapshot of my life over the period of a year, it kind of falls into balance.

And of course, it's not perfect. And there's plenty of areas where I need to improve vastly. And I'm always working on that. But I think my balance is somebody else's out of balance. And so I think it's a personal thing. And it depends on what your dharma is and what your soul purpose is. So I think that that is important to integrate into your definition or your perception of balance and not just say, well, balance is a static thing that we should all conform to.

No. Yeah, I agree. And I think also balance is really, it's an inner state. It's a state of being. That's, you know, it's an energy. So you can be a skydiver and be jumping out of an airplane and be balanced. You know, so I mean, to me, that's what it means. It doesn't, because everybody's so individual. And, you know, I'm also, I'm not a, I'm not a moderate person at all. You know, my life has been, you know, a series of outrageous events, one right after the other, like consistently. And I've cultivated the balance and the inner power through my spiritual practice, which is an inner practice that connects me with something greater than my human self. So, how do you apply that in a real world context when, for example, you know, somebody says you shouldn't try that or do that because that's too

extreme or crazy. Like you should just be like everybody else. How do I apply that? Yeah. That would be more balanced. I'd never listened to anybody that says that to me. That's what I was getting at. No. So, I mean, again, we're each living our own lives. We're here for our own unfoldment, we're each living our own lives. We're here for our own unfoldment, for our own discovery and return home to, you know, what is greater and beyond this personality. And so, you know, we were created in a specific design for a reason, and we need to honor everyone in their

own individual expression. You know, this is not about getting back to, you know, school. It's not about standardized education, making everybody the same. That's not a triumph. You know, it's against nature. You know, a leaf is not like a frog, is not like a tree, is not like the sun. You know, it's like, we got to stop this. It's like comparing other people. Instead, just try to find out who they are, you know, find out the gifts that they have inside of themselves. What did they come here to share? What could they show you that could delight you? You know, something that was completely out of the box. And these are the gifts that are locked inside our children, that were sent here for our betterment, and we're dumbing them down.

We're sending them to school so they'll be like everybody else. I mean, the only thing I've ever done in my whole so they'll be like everybody else i mean the only thing i've ever done in my whole life is not be like everybody else you know so and sometimes i would like sometimes i long in my little human self for someone to just love me with my outrageousness and not want me to tone it down you know that's my dream i'm trying i'm trying that's my dream am i falling short in that some yeah sometimes i do sometimes yeah when the fear crops in it's fear well that's really important you're a powerful chick like you you stand in your strength and that strength i think at times can be intimidating to other people or ruffle feathers. I'm sorry about that.

Sometimes. I mean, but you pointed out, I try to champion you once in a while. I get scared, but like you try, I guess you're saying like, I need to do better at that. I'm just saying all of us,

you know, there's no reason for any of us to assume that everyone else should be like us. And I mean, you know, I don't do that to anybody else. I don't want you to be like me. I don't want my kids to be like us. And I mean, you know, I don't do that to anybody else. I don't want you to be like me. I don't want my kids to be like me.

You know, I remember a friend of mine asked me after I had four kids, what is your vision for your kids? Or what is your hope for your, not even hope. He said something like, you know, what is your design for your kids? Like, who do you want them to be? And I kind of just looked at him and I was like,

whoever they are, just who they are. That's what I want them to be. So, you know, I just think that we do it a lot and we're always comparing and it's always in the media and it's like, oh, you know, this person wasn't like that or wasn't like this. And it's like, we just need to stop it already and just celebrate people for who they are. And it is only fear that makes, you know, if you see an expression that you're not used to or you've never seen before, you know, or it's out of your comfort zone, that's the thing. Out of your comfort zone. What does that mean, that statement? It means you're afraid. They're inciting fear because they're so different than you.

Then suddenly you feel like you need to analyze them or define them or put them somewhere where you can feel okay, standing next to them. And, you know, we don't have to do that. We can just learn from each other and experiencing each other and enjoy each other. And with so much diversity working together, we can really have a beautiful life because we'll have a flavor of of each color and uh and a tone that will create a beautiful harmonic symphony that no one could ever have even imagined well i think that's a pretty appropriate place to lock it down for today okay all right thanks julie thanks rich roll always always happy to be here. Another great episode of Ask Me Anything, you guys.

Cool. Hope you guys enjoyed that. Keep sending in your questions to info at Rich Roll. And we're going to be doing this probably every other week, I think. We'll see. We'll play it by ear. What do you think? Am I doing okay?

You're going to have me back? Yeah, you're doing great. Every other week? Okay, cool. Here, I'm trying to be supportive and champion your individuality. Awesome. Thank you. I feel it. I appreciate it.

Awesome, you guys. So for all your plant power needs, go to richroll.com. Check out Julie's meditation program. We got nutrition products. We have signed copies of Finding Ultra on the Plant Power Way, organic cotton garments. We have tech tees with the Plant Power logo on them. We have Peace and Plant sticker packs. We've got temporary tattoos.

And we have Andrew Pasquale's fine art. We are offering prints of his USDA organic series signed on beautiful paper, either framed or unframed. And they're really awesome. They're beautiful. We have four of his series hanging in our house right now. Everybody always goes crazy when they see them when they come over. We love his stuff. And he's blowing up as an artist.

And this is a really nice, affordable way to get your hands on a really beautiful piece of art that I think is going to appreciate as his career continues to accelerate. So yeah, good opportunity to get your hands on it now when it's still cheap. So yeah, basically everything you need to take your health and your life next level, richroll.com. And if you're into online courses, we have two of those at mindbodygreen.com. And I think we're going to do a third. We're talking to them about doing a third. We have to figure out what that is.

But the two that we have are The Ultimate Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition. And The Art of Living with Purpose. And The Art of Living with Purpose. Yes, we remembered the name of it this time. It's good. So The Former is a great companion piece to The Plant Power Way.

Tons of video on how to dial up your kitchen and get yourself sorted out to be more plant-powered. And the other one is about setting goals and kind of some of the internal work that we talked about today to help you find and ultimately unleash that passion so you can live more authentically, be more of who you are. And I think that one's about two and a half hours of streaming video content. There's an online community, both really affordably priced 99 bucks each. So in a world where a lot of the online courses are like $1,000 or whatever,

these are very affordable and I stand behind them. I think I'm really proud of them. So check those out. Mindbodygreen.com, click on video courses. So that's it. Thanks for supporting the show, you guys thanks for telling your friends thanks for sharing it on social media especially instagram i'm on snapchat now i am rich roll i am i am rich roll i did a great snapchat story from the iron cowboy i saw experience which was cool and uh on beam now casey neistat's new app. I'm Rich Roll there. Are you on Beam yet? I invited you. I know you invited me.

You're not going to do it? I've been busy. Okay. You don't want to share? No. I'll see. I'm doing some other stuff right now. So we'll see.

I've been playing around with it. It's fun. So you can find me on Beam as well. All right, you guys. That's it. And to find out more about me, you can go to my website, Srimati.com, S-R-I-M-A-T-I dot com, and I am also on Instagram and Twitter, Srimati, both

places, S-R-I-M-A-T-I. That's right, and we're going to take it out with a song, yeah? Sure. What do you want it to be this time? I was thinking it should be Beloved. Have we done that one before? We've done it, but, you know, it's been a while. Is there one you haven't done you want to do?

I don't know. I don't think so. All right. Beloved. It might be a new version because I have two versions of it. Okay. Enjoy this performance of Beloved, written and performed by Julie Pyatt, accompanied by our sons, Tyler and Trapper. Tyler, who arranged and produced the song. That's right. And also a guest performance by Mark Schultz, a beautiful Australian performer. So Mark's on this.

So check him out. All right. That's it. We're done. Awesome. Peace. Namaste. Be love.

Be you. Be love. Be true. I'm yours. You'll see. Be love. You'll see Be loved Be free Puzzling through the fields

I feel the trees Reminding me of you Hummingbird, butterfly There's just so much that we can be Together Be together Be loved Be you Be loved Be true Be love, be true. I'm yours, you're mine. Be love, divine.

Buzzing through the fields I feel the trees Reminding me of you Hummingbird, butterfly There's just so much that we can be Together Be love Be true Be love, be true. Be love, be you. I'm yours, you're mine.

You're mine, beloved, divine, divine, divine.