The Rich Roll Podcast - The Iron Cowboy Did It! How James Lawrence Completed 50 Ironmans In 50 States In 50 Days

Episode Date: August 10, 2015

I'm exploding with excitement about this week's hotly anticipated show. Today I sit down with James Lawrence — aka The Iron Cowboy — fresh on the heels of completing an absolutely unprecedented and mind-boggling 50 ironman-distance triathlons in 50 states in just 50 days. I honestly believe this is one of the greatest achievements in the history of (voluntary) human endurance. For the uninitiated, consider swimming 2.4 miles, pedaling your bike 112 miles and then running a marathon, 26.2 miles. After quickly eating and bathing, you enjoy anywhere from two to four hours of shut eye, usually in the back of a Subaru as it drives through the night to meet dawn in an adjoining state. Then you heave your weary bones up, eat, get dressed and do it all over again. Every single day. 50 days in row, across each and every one of the 50 states — including Hawaii and Alaska — without one single day off. Just think about that for a moment. Let it sink in. During James' initial appearance on the podcast (RRP 149) just prior to his 50/50/50 attempt, I went on record here and on various media outlets like Triathlete.com voicing my concern that James just might have aimed a bit too high. As someone who did 5 ironman-distance triathlons in a row on each of the 5 Hawaiian Islands, I happen to have a little experience in this arena. Admittedly my accomplishments now seem paltry (almost embarrassing) by comparison, the fact remains that I happen to be one of the few people on the planet who can truly understand, appreciate and deeply empathize with the abyss James would inevitably face, battle, endure and be forced to overcome in order to complete his extraordinary journey intact. I know what it's like to meet unforeseen obstacles that threaten to imperil the mission. I know what it's like to fall asleep on your bike. I know what it's like to have saddle sores so painful you can't sit down. I know what it's like to run through the night, hallucinating. And I know what it's like when that inevitable moment arises and you ask yourself: what am I doing to myself? But James and his entire family were all in from the get go. To underwrite the endeavor, they even sold their house and put all their earthly possessions in storage. So never for a second did I doubt his level of commitment. I knew he could complete 50 ironman-distance triathlons in 50 states. It was the 50 days part that bent my brain. Certainly he'll have to take at least one day off, right? Maybe two. In my mind, I predicted at least three intermittent rest days. James, you proved me wrong. You proved the world wrong. And I couldn’t be happier. Or more proud. It's not just that you did what you said you would do. It's the way you did it. It was your composure. It was you tremendous grace under fire. Your selflessness in service to a greater cause. All fueled by an attitude of gratitude. On a last minute whim, I decided to show up unannounced in Utah to surprise James, join him on his final marathon jaunt, and witness the conclusion first hand. An experience I will never forget, it was thrilling and emotional to be running just off his shoulder as he crossed his historic finish line, accomplished his goal, Enjoy! Rich

It's like having a kid. You're never ready to have that first kid. And you just know that you'll have it and everything will be okay. And I was like, this, this was my baby. And I wasn't ready when I started. And I had no idea how I was going to get there. I just knew, hey, I'm having this kid. And it's going to grow into being an awesome adult.

That is the one and only James Lawrence, a.k.a. Iron Cowboy, this week on the Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey, everybody, what's happening? It's Rich Roll Podcast. all categories of excellence and positive culture change to mine the tools, the insights, and the principles that can help all of us unlock and unleash our best, most authentic selves. Hey, you know what, you guys? I appreciate you. I really do. There's so much great content out there vying for your precious attention. So I really appreciate you guys tuning in for subscribing on iTunes and

subscribing to my weekly newsletter. If you want to support the show, please take a quick moment to give us a review on iTunes. It really does help us out tremendously. So I greatly appreciate that. And you can also support the show by clicking on the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. It doesn't cost you anything extra on your purchases, and it's really a great free way to support the mission. So you can make it easy on yourself by just bookmarking the link from the banner ad on my site to your browser. And that way, every time you want to buy something on Amazon, it's right there. You don't have to go to my site and it's a win-win across the board. All right, you guys, so a big show this week,

across the board. All right, you guys, so big show this week, really big show. A lot of anticipation for my conversation with today's guest, the Iron Cowboy himself, who just accomplished what I truly in my heart of hearts believe is one of the greatest achievements in the annals of voluntary human endurance when he completed a completely unprecedented 50 Ironmans in 50 states in 50 days. So for those of you who might not know what an Ironman is, consider this. Consider swimming 2.4 miles, then getting on your bike and riding at 112 miles, and then running a marathon, 26.2 miles. Then you go to sleep anywhere from an hour to four hours. You get up again and you do it all over again. Every single day, 50 days in a row across all 50 states. And that includes Hawaii and Alaska, not a single

day off. Now look, as someone who did five Ironmans in a row on each of the five Hawaiian islands, I have a little experience in this arena. In fact, I might be just one of the few people who can actually relate on some level to what this adventure entails. Although, you know, look, what I did now seems paltry, almost embarrassing by comparison. And James and I talked about all this when he came on the podcast just prior to his attempt of the 50-50-50. That's episode 149. You can check that out. But anyway, at the time, I went on record on this podcast and on various media outlets like triathlete.com. And I voiced my concern about the possibility that this could actually be achieved. And I never doubted that he

could do 50 Ironmans in 50 states, but it's the 50 days part that really got me hung up. I know what that sleep deprivation is like. I know what it's like to meet unforeseen obstacles that push the timeline back and imperil the mission. And I just, I had a hard time wrapping my head around him, making it through this entire adventure without having to take at least a day off here or there. Maybe two, maybe three, I don't know. But look, he proved me wrong. He proved the world wrong. And on a whim, I decided to show up in Utah and run the final marathon with James and see it all wrap up firsthand.

And I'm really glad I did. It was an incredible experience that I will never forget. It was emotional. It was thrilling. It was historic to be there and to see him cross the finish line to the insane cheers of 3,600 people that were there in attendance to celebrate with him.

It really was something. And I couldn't be happy for him. I couldn't be more excited for him and more proud of him. Not just that he did it, but the way he did it. With a huge degree of not only self-will and fortitude, but an incredible amount of grace and gratitude. It was a really beautiful, real-life drama that played out not on national television, but in relative obscurity outside of grassroots support. And in many ways, I think you could characterize this whole endeavor as sort of a social media movement, which makes it really extra special and cool. So it's really my privilege

to bring you the first full and completely uncut recap of this historic and extraordinary accomplishment to all of you guys today. And I'm going to talk a little bit more about James and his family and the crew that helped make it happen, all of whom join us today on today's Podtacular in a second, but first. All right, Iron Cowboy. Husband, proud father of five kids, an athlete who already holds two Guinness World Records in triathlon, first for the most 70.3 races in a calendar year. He did 22 in 30 weeks. And most Ironman triathlons in a calendar year.

He did 30 in a 12-month period. Who now, despite and quite interestingly considering himself to be very average when it comes to genetic athletic gifts, has truly done the extraordinary. A feat that he will tell you he chalks up to having been 80% mental. Think about that, 80% mental. But look, this was no individual achievement. It was truly a team effort. James could not have done it without incredible support. And he had an amazing team comprised of family, friends and sponsors and communities of people that showed up in droves in every state to help him cross each consecutive finish line. So not only do I get James's take on everything, I also get his wife, Sunny Jo's perspective. I talked to his quite precocious eldest daughter, Lucy, I think she's 11, maybe she's 12, about what it was like for her to support her dad by running the last 5K of every one of the 50 marathons in all 50 states, an amazing

achievement for her in its own right. And I get the perspective of his trusty crew guys, these guys, Aaron Hopkinson and Casey Robles, aka the wingmen. These guys became like bigger than life characters in this unfolding drama. If you followed it on Facebook, you know what I'm talking about. in this unfolding drama. If you followed it on Facebook, you know what I'm talking about. Really, these guys need their own TV show. So anyway, we get into all of it.

We talk about James's overall reflection on the experience, what it means to him, his family and others. What was his driving force? How did he fuel himself? We talk about the travel, the chaos and the insane exhaustion that he experienced. We talk about the impact on his five kids, how he approached recovery each day,

what were his lowest moments, how did he keep his mind occupied, how did he learn to accept help? It's very important. And interestingly, we talk a little bit about the controversy and some of the negativity that was thrown his way throughout the course of this adventure. It's pretty interesting.

And we also delve into an exploration of the mental strength and fortitude required to complete it and so much more. So a couple things. First of all, I get pretty emotional at the end of this podcast. And that was not expected. It's definitely a first. So there's that maybe that's just an indication of just, you know, what it was like for me to experience this firsthand with him. Anyway, you can hear me kind of break down a little bit at the end. And the second thing is, I made a really cool video of my experience being there to run the final marathon with him and what that experience was like for me. I've embedded that video on the episode page at richroll.com for this episode, or you can check it out on my YouTube channel.

It's a pretty fun video. I think you guys will like it. And I'm also interested in doing more video stuff. So let me know if, if you like it, if you want me to do more video, I'm happy to do it. It was really fun making this video.

So, all right, look enough preface, iron cowboy, Sonny Joe, Lucy, and the Wingmen. Dig it. It's like a high-pressure situation with a film camera. All this kind of stuff. High production value, man.

Go big or go home, right? We don't mess around. All right, well, Iron Cowboy in full effect, Sonny Joe, the Wingmen, Aaron and Casey, kind of high production value man go bigger go home right we don't mess around all right well iron cowboy in full effect sunny joe the wingman aaron and casey we're all here and we're going to wrap it out we're going to get to the bottom of this crazy 50 50 50 nonsense that you just completed a lot of a lot

of intrigue a lot of interest in learning more about how this all went down man so super excited to be with you guys today thanks for taking the time i know your life is topsy-turvy and upside down right now so uh it's really cool to be able to carve out 90 minutes with you guys and and hear all about it we're stoked man i was uh every place that i went to it was, hey, how'd you hear about us? Oh, Rich Roll Podcast, Rich Roll Podcast. Yeah, man. And so, you know, I was, I tell everybody,

well, I think Rich is going to call me for a follow-up. And so I'm glad it's taking place and that you could come here to Utah. Yeah, well, sort of observing from the sidelines, how's this going to play out? We'll see. I don't know. You know what I mean?

Well, we're honored to have you in our house. Thank you. Yeah, cool. So no doubt, like throughout the whole whole experience i was getting messages all the time on facebook and emails hey i went out to support the iron cowboy found out about on podcast um you know people were just stoked in every state to turn up and you know enjoy the experience with you and it was really cool to see the evolution right like i mean how many people showed up you know in the first couple states versus you know what we saw in utah which was

insane yeah alaska i mean i had one girl that did the whole thing with me and five five people on the on the run and then utah i mean we had 400 plus riders and 3,500 plus at the... Were there 3,500? Yeah. I'm so bad at counting numbers. I go, there's got to be at least 1,000 people here. There were 3,500? Wow. That was crazy.

It was, you know, I had a lot of think time out there and I kept, you know, thinking how that last day might play out. I was just overwhelmed with gratitude and felt, you know, just felt so loved coming into there. And I thought, yeah, my 50 friends are going to show up and ride with me but it was just it was just super cool to have you know the state really come out yeah well home state you know doesn't hurt of course but even so i mean i arrived maybe a half an hour before you came in on the bike and i saw the tent set up and the obviously the rv and i saw sunny and um and there were maybe i don't know 100 or 150 people and i'd seen the video earlier in the day so i knew there was a huge group that

that had gone out on the ride with you but even then i was like wow look at all these people here and then like every hour that went by you know it's like crazier and crazier because i watched the uh the little little clip that you put up and you were like man this place is is jumping and i was like this is early footage yeah i know like nobody had even shown up yet and you were like man this place is is jumping and i was like this is early footage yeah i know like nobody had even shown up yet and you were like yeah look at all the people that it just you know continued to grow as the marathon went on yeah it was crazy and i actually caught some great footage um on my gopro i was running right behind you when you when you finish so i'm going to cut together a nice little video it won't be anything as super pro as the jaybird guys that was a cool shoot it was pretty cool what they did so all right first of all how are you feeling uh you know shockingly good uh i i

think i felt worse after the the 30 ironmans in a year um just because it was it was a year long and i had to transition from athlete to father athlete to father and this was just the the 50 was obviously way more intense but it was in such a condensed period of time and uh i i don't know if i just managed my body better or if i just didn't give it time to to go through injury but i i mean really i don't have any uh stress fractures i don't have any torn muscles um literally the two things i'm dealing with is numbness in my pinky and my ring finger and then um from like pinched nerves from riding the bike it's the ulnar nerve yeah so my dexterity you know dexterity like tying my shoes and i, and I can't open a jar of pickles right now.

Right. And then I've just got some swelling and numbness in my feet. But soreness? No soreness. You're not sore. I'm not sore at all. I mean, it was crazy just the way that my body adapted in that last event in Utah. We calculated my moving time, and it was an 11. 11 30 iron man and it was the fastest of the 50

yeah that's crazy which is nuts it's mind-blowing to me yeah that's crazy i mean the crowd i'm sure helped and just being home and well knowing you could knowing i didn't have to do anything the next day right i was going to my bed and not a motorhome bed was a huge incentive well on the run like that last lap that you took before the 5K, I was like, what is going on? We were like, I think we're running like seven minute pace or something like that all of a sudden. We dropped into low sevens and dipped right under seven minute mile there for a minute. The last three miles before the final 5K, we were sub 22 minutes. Well, I can say from my, you know, my one-tenth of what you did that my fifth

one felt the best you know and it's weird it's a weird thing and i and i talked about it in my book you know how the it's almost like the body finally goes okay like i get it now like why didn't you tell me this is what you were trying to do to me like you know now i can i can it adapts it's incredible it's crazy and that's what that's exactly what i experienced out there the first 15 20 i mean it was just hell um just because my mind knew what it was doing and it uh it it kept trying to tell the body and the body just it just didn't get it right until until we passed a certain point and you know if you look at my if you look at the last 20 um i was just a robot metronome. I mean, I would start and finish at the exact same time every day.

I mean, we could predict when I was coming in on the bike, off on the run. I'd have the same amount of miles done before the 5K. I mean, it was just like clockwork, and my body finally caught up to what my mind had been telling it, this is what we're doing. And it just took me a little longer than five. Right, right, right, right. Just because, I mean, 50 is just so big. And so it took 20 for my body to go, oh, there you go. That's what we're doing.

Right, right, right, to finally click in. Well, it's in survival mode. Like it thinks you're trying to kill it. I remember I got super bloated and I actually gained weight because my body was thinking, I've got to store this food because I'm running out of fuel. Like it was weird. bloated and i actually gained weight because my body was thinking i gotta store this food because i'm running out of fuel like it was weird and then like a week later i got super skinny because it was almost like the body is saying it's trying to hold on to that like it's trying to live you know

and it thinks you're trying to kill it yeah i went through all these things that you're explaining just on a just on a bigger level um the you know i lost seven pounds the first week and we went oh man we can't sustain this like there's no way and so we just started throwing food at me and then i went through that phase where i was just like bloated and just like just i looked like an ethiopian just just super skinny but my stomach was sticking way. And then we figured out that we had to adjust our proteins. My body was just like craving protein. And then once we got all that back in check, I ended up putting that seven pounds back on. Interesting.

And we maintained our weight the whole way through. Yeah, I mean, you look the same as you did when you started. I mean, was there any weight loss from beginning down? Were you weighing yourself every day? Yeah, it was just that seven pounds in the first week, and then we put it all back on, and then I just maintained and held steady the whole time. Right, right, right. So what was the fueling strategy?

Just as much food as we could get in me. So just for example, breakfast was two bowls of oatmeal with walnuts, coconut, some agave or honey, and then I'd go do my swim. coconut, some agave or honey. And then I'd go do my swim. And then I'd come out of the swim, and I would have some variation of either a breakfast sandwich or burrito. I mean, sometimes the ambassadors would have just a spread.

And I would come out, and I would pound two to three plates. Right. Yeah, there's pictures on Facebook of these massive plates of food. Plates of food, and I would just shovel it in. So I was getting in like 3,500 calories just before going out on the bike. Right. Just because in the evening time, it was very difficult. My number one priority was getting to sleep, just because it ended up being four to five hours a night.

And so eating just wasn't high on my excitement to-do list. Right. And so when I woke up in the mornings, I was just like starving. And I just couldn't consume so much before the swim. So we'd get in those two big bowls of oatmeal and then just post-swim, pre-bike. I was just so hungry. And you can't really eat on the run, right? So what do you eat?

You've got to be eating when you're on the bike, though, right? Yeah. eat on the run right so what do you eat you got to be eating when you're on the bike though right yeah well actually we i would take a break um probably about right before the 5k i would come in and i mean i would eat a whole a whole meal this one day you went running with this giant hoagie and he held it in the middle and just pounded it through the run. The entire hoagie was bigger than a 12-inch sub. There was one day I came in, and it was in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, and the guy owned a restaurant. And I came in from the first portion of the run, and he had just this huge porterhouse steak and a whole thing of vegetables and a thing of mashed potatoes and i stayed the

whole thing the whole thing and then went out and kept running and finished the run yeah yeah and so so and it was interesting because my body had just said you know what i would i would rather take the fuel and not complain about it because i didn't have any like cramping or weird bowel issue i mean it's just amazing that my body just said well i would i'm going to take the fuel right and i'm not going to complain about it because i need it uh-huh and what about in your in your bottles on the bike and stuff and in your handheld when you're running yeah so uh we we used mostly a company called energy lab nutrition and they had uh my in-race kind of electrolyte drink and then then i always used in my bottles for the run

um a blend it's called blend fresh and it was um organic fruits and vegetable powders and it was kind of it was weird because in my mind i said okay i'm near near the end of my day even though i still had you know a huge portion of the run to do but i said i'm going to start taking in these these these high micronutrient powders um so that my body can start recovering for the next day and it was you know you i can't carry around you know tomatoes and you know cucumbers and this is massive amounts to get what i need and so we had to we had to revert to these you know these powders um but they served just an unbelievable purpose for me because i just got all of everything I needed. And mentally, my body, you know, I told it.

I said, look, you're preparing now, starting recovering. So my fueling strategy on the run was actually my preparation for the next day. Right. Yeah, you're always eating for the next day. For sure. Yeah, because you're running a caloric deficit no matter what. Yeah. Right?

So you're always playing catch up. It's almost like damage control at all times. Yeah, because you're running a caloric deficit no matter what. Yeah. Right? So you're always playing catch up. It's almost like damage control at all times. Yeah, absolutely. Right? Yep. So it worked out, man. Yeah, it did work out. I was really happy.

I mean, that was one of the biggest concerns going in was how are we going to get the amount of calories that we need, how are we going to get the quality that we need, and then are we going to have to deal with GI issues? Uh-huh. And it just never happened, which was unbelievable. Well, let's take it back to the beginning. All right, so you start in Kauai. It's Kauai, Alaska, Washington, Oregon.

So you stack the deck against yourself from the get-go because you got three airline, two airline flights? Three airline flights. Two airline flights. Three including flying to Honolulu. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I ended up flying from california too uh that was a huge drive from portland right because you had to get to santa

cruz yeah because it was a 10 and a half hour drive and we didn't have enough time to finish the race and then have me travel 10 and a half hours so we sent aaron in a car a day ahead of us and then i flew after the event and so i, I mean, there was, in those initial three, I had... Four flights. Yeah. You know, between the initial four events, we had three flights. And, you know, had anything gone wrong, I mean, we were under commercial time deadlines.

Right. Yeah, if you miss your flight, you're in big trouble. Yeah. Especially if, I mean, had we had to do that 10 hour drive with me i mean that would have ended up being 12 because we hit san francisco traffic so it's 12 and a half hours we didn't get there till 10 30 in the morning i mean that would have that would have had me starting at 10 30 and then then you're just way and the next drive was long to vegas so we needed that travel time as well yeah the vegas was eight and a half hours and and and then on top of that we're dealing with massive exhaustion i

mean in those first three events i had a total of seven and a half hours of sleep right all which was on an airline because we started that one in hawaii at midnight so no sleep the night before because you just amped up you're about to start 50 iron man so like you're gonna sleep so i do no sleep i start at midnight i do an iron man i get three hours sleep four hours sleep getting to alaska we land lose all that time zone time right land at six i'm in the pool by seven finish that one fly out of alaska at midnight land at six in the water at seven and then we had to start the oregon one at 5 a.m because i had to catch that that flight right you got to get it done in time so those first four so yeah dealing with just like insane exhaustion right right right so i'm thinking and you know and i was frank and open about this from the get-go

like when i looked at it and you know i knew what you had done previously but i didn't know you personally and i was like you know he looks super fit he's obviously you know knows how to crank out tons of ironmans he's going to be able to do 50 and 50 states but i'm thinking after that first five or six or seven or maybe maybe even nine or ten if he's lucky he's gonna have to take a rest day yeah it's just like i just don't see any way around it and if he meets one sort of unforeseen obstacle that even pushes him back an hour or two hours that's going to cause a major ripple effect that's going to affect your ability to do the whole thing right and it's not like you didn't meet obstacles i mean in hawaii from the get-go

you had the cops like you had stuff happening you have flats all you had a bunch of flats like four flat so it's not like this was obstacle free by any stretch of the imagination you're meeting obstacles every single day well it's crazy yeah we had that all those things happen in hawaii and i'm like oh man this is number one yeah like we're up against it and i knew what was coming in the next several states and so i was like man just hunker down i'd say to jay i'm like stuff goes right for people all the time people make flights all the time people travel cross country all the time without any mishaps why couldn't it work for us uh-huh you know so even hitting the deer that could have been really tragic.

Wait, I didn't know about hitting a deer. Where did that happen? Casey. Just clip. We, I will take no accountability for that. Casey, wingman number two, clipped a deer and had he hit it with the front, had he hit it from the front of the RVv it would have caused serious damage to the engine but he ended up clipping it just taking out a headlight so things like that there were things

that happened well that right that that deer so that was what caused a big dent on the front of the rv yes so that deer you know that that thing totally freaked me out because i was sleeping in the back i was sleeping in the back corner of the rv and i was already paranoid to begin with like rvs are not meant to like sleep in it we're an hour outside of flagstaff so we're almost there our v's are meant to like travel to your destination set up sleep well you know stationary right and so but we didn't have a choice we were sleeping while moving and uh casey hits this deer and he hits it on the right side that i'm sleeping on and And I swear, he hit it, and it does this spin pirouette down the right side of the motorhome

and hits right where I'm sleeping. Oh, wow. And so it was just like this loudest noise, and I'm in this exhausted state of panic. And so now, from that point on, every time I go to sleep, all I can think about is frigging deer. You have to finish this story, though. James sits up and says, Casey, what did you just hit casey's like nothing

james says no you hit something he's like no no everything's what happened to the deer did you guys stop so james said pull over right now casey gets out and he's like oh yeah i hit a deer yeah oh wow that's a problem and then like two and then like two days later, we moved me to the 15-passenger van. We set up a bed in there for me. And I think it was two days later, and we're driving down the road, and like this herd of deer comes out. Were you driving? I was.

Aaron was driving, and he just describes it as like these deer bouncing in the middle of the road. He manages to not hit any of them but one of the deer just like took it upon himself and head butts the side of the van right where i'm sleeping and again it was like this giant explosion and so it just added the my paranoia of deer and sleeping and right stuck the whole trip which stuck the whole trip and so i'm freaking out every time like every night every night, that's not helping your rest. No, my rest, right. So it became very difficult for me to, I eventually moved full time into the van only because it was less of a stress for me because of the movement was less.

But man, those stupid deer, they plagued me from the beginning. Yeah, I saw the pictures of you sleeping in the van and I was thinking like, why isn't he sleeping in the RV? There's got to be a better bed in the RV. Yeah, the issue was the back of you sleeping in the van and i was thinking like why isn't he sleeping in the rv there's got to be a better bed in the rv yeah the issue was um the the back of the rv just that movement is so exaggerated and um i i just slept better in the van just because it didn't it just didn't move as much and then the axles yeah and i'm being right on top of the axles and and we were also pulling a car behind the motorhome, and it was just so loud. And so any bump we went over, it was just like thunder. It was a trailer machine.

It was just like thunder going off, and so the sleep was less than ideal. Right. All right, so you get through the initial five of them. I mean, I would think like, you know, are you starting to, I mean, how are you feeling after those first four or five off? Basically, like no sleep? I think because it was 50 when we were in the first four or five, that excitement level is still there. And it was so chaotic with the crew, and we just, we hadn't figured out what we were doing at that point. And because we did the first two without our core crew, and they met us in Washington,

the first two were just you know us by ourselves and it was kind of fun and i had still tons of energy and we were excited we were making the flights and so it really started in washington um and and then that's when the the chaos kind of started because we just we everybody started to get really tired um and and it was just it was just chaos. And nobody was organized. We couldn't figure out how to organize or get a flow to the day. It was, I think, one of the biggest issues.

That took like 10 states. It took a long time. For it to click in and you guys are working like you have a system in place. We didn't have any help driving. So the wingmen were driving all night and crewing all day. So we didn't have help with crewing or help with driving. So figuring that out for them was really tricky. Right. Well, and then the hardest thing for me, too, is I've got this monumental task that I'm trying to do, and I became just so concerned about the crew.

Yeah, and that's the one thing that you shouldn't have to think about. And I became so concerned because they were exhausted and having to drive at night. And I kept saying, guys, are you guys okay? And how can I help you? And it became this, well, I'm trying to, I had to almost separate myself from, look, I have to take the emotion out of it and not really care about you guys anymore, which is really, really, really hard for me to do. That's why they say never have

your friends crew let alone your wife you let on your wife and your kid and so it was really hard for me because i i had to separate myself from that emotion of like hey are you guys okay and and i don't think i ever did it successfully i i worried about them every single day you know right just what they were doing and i have you know deep love for this whole crew so it made it really difficult for me because I knew how hard they were working and they were out there

because I was out there right so I felt ultimately responsible for for them being out there and I'm like man if anything happens

it's on my watch and I'll never live I'll never right but the only way to move forward is for you to put that out of your mind

right and it was a hard thing for me to do you know for people that are listening I mean first of all like my observation just on the final day was like it was working like clockwork like everything was just like totally tight like it was like a machine so obviously you guys did figure it out but for people that are listening and aaron and casey

maybe you know one of you guys or both you can chime in here um you know i think the idea that you know you always hear like athletes say well it was a team effort and i couldn't have done it without x y and z and these people but in this case like it is more than you can imagine and and the job of crewing for something like this i can't even fathom right so i want to make sure that i disabuse the listener of any idea that uh the crew job involves just driving the van and chilling out. You're on point 24 hours a day. And when you're trying to tend to the athlete, tend to James and make sure that his needs are met, it's not like there's any downtime. It's always what's next, what's next, what's next.

You have to think three, four, five steps ahead. next what's next you have to think three four or five steps ahead and then how are you guys getting any sleep when you've got to then drive all night and get them sorted out for the next day and then be able to be you know alert enough to serve his needs the the following day and then the day after that and then the day after that it's interesting because they they would play a game called not it every morning and it was uh who who the loser had to go wake me up right and no one wants to have that dreaded no i mean it was just i was so exhausted going into every every day um and i don't know how casey lost every day but he ultimately became i think it just became default that casey was the guy that got to wake me up yeah, first of all, how did James hoodwink you guys into this job to begin with?

There's no hoodwinking involved. It was him just asking, hey, this is what I'm going to do, and I'm going to need some help, and I'd love for you to help. And my eyes got really big like a little boy on Christmas morning opening the best prison ever. And my next thought was, how do I convince my wife that this is a really good idea because i have a five a three and a one year old oh wow so how'd that conversation go uh hey honey uh i got this really cool idea do you not want to spend summer with me but uh she saw that um she probably

saw that looking at it that i would probably be so obsessed with it and I'd be texting him every single day and she knew that when he was doing his 30 I would text him a lot and I'd always ask him how he was doing and how his race went and I saw how he was doing and she knew that I would be so engrossed in it that I probably wouldn't give her the time or attention she would need so she's like might as well send you on your way anyways right and you have a job that you could take off for the summer yes I teach I teach elementary school. Oh, okay. So I just got done with my 14th year and teach first grade, and summers are the best for that.

Right on. It was perfect. What about you, Aaron? Aaron straight up quit his job to come out and do this. Yeah, I did. Aaron's a maniac. No, I got to train with James last year, and about the same time last year is when he asked me,

but I only knew him from January before. That the same time last year is when he asked me. But I only knew him from January before. That's like six months prior to when he asked me. So he's telling me about the project, and he brought it up one day. He's like, oh, do you want to come with me? I was like, sure, just kind of not thinking he was serious about it. That was an easy sell. I didn't think he was really serious because he didn't know me that much. And so a couple weeks later, I got brought up he's like I'm serious I want you to come

with me he's like I need you so I was like all right cool so from there I committed and then just kind of got more passionate about the kind of the project and it just all fell in and I just made it work with work and well the one job i didn't make it work just but i already told my wood i wasn't gonna bell on him so yeah and you guys are still you're still crewing whoa we're like how many days out are we four days after it's done you guys still think it's happening yeah it's still going on so true they uh man these guys they own a role uh once they once they get it what was cool about casey about Casey and Aaron that we didn't even know from the beginning was they're complete opposites.

And it's yin and yang with these two. You wouldn't know that, though, because everybody's got a beard. When I got to the RV, there was just one guy after another coming out of the RV with a beard. And I'm like, I can't keep all these guys straight. What was amazing, though, is they just complimented each other so well. And when one was down, the other was up. And they just knew how to do the perfect mix.

They knew when Sonny needed something. They knew when I needed something. And, man, it was just, it did take us a while. But, man, if you were to watch us over the last 20 races, it was like poetry. Like we got it. Right. And I want to get into Sonny's perspective and the family kind of, you know, take on the whole thing in a minute. But before I do that, hold on a second.

I want to ask these guys, what was the hardest part of crewing for this? What was the hardest part of crewing for this? And your biggest sort of misconception of what was going to be involved? And then also, I want to hear something about James that maybe James doesn't even know, like what you experienced working with him throughout this whole ordeal. Come on, dude, jump in. One of the stressors we had coming into this was like

really knowing what our role was because we'd heard that we were going to do this and we were going to do this and it was like how are you going to do all this and my wife kept being like

how are you possibly going to survive driving and being awake all day and we thought that we were going to be out on the course with him as well

most of the time running and swimming and biking as well so there was that whole like ugh and then we quickly realized that we weren't going to be out there being able to run, bike, and swim with him

like we would have liked to have. But it didn't matter because that wasn't about us. It was about James. And so we quickly just threw those things off to the side of the road and said, well, when we have the moment that we can swim, bike, or run, we'll do it, but we need to be there for him. And so, yeah. Aaron?

Yeah, I think the hardest was just kind of getting the sleep down. And so right at first, I mean, we were just driving all through the night, and so we were running off like a couple hours of sleep. Yeah, I mean, were you ever like, oh, my God, like what did we sign up for? I had no idea it was gonna be you know i mean did you have that kind of moment of no it was so exciting i think maybe we bit off uh really yeah but at some point that must have worn off right when you're it was so minute to minute the whole time for 50 days it was like from the word go to the utah finale it

was literally minute to minute right because we were changing states every time and we're changing courses and we're changing time zones and then it's like you have the course but then they change it and then you have to drive this the super the super in the van and the motor home all to a new location because the miscommunication was we were supposed to stay there but no we have to change so it was always something was happening something was changing and so you always had to just kind of stay. It was exciting. It was exciting. Yeah.

Another thing that kind of helped me going is getting to a new state, and then there's all these new people that are just so amped up and excited that we're all there. And so we kind of feed off of their energy and just kind of get ready for that day, and then we'd get to the next day and just start all over again. Right. And what did you learn about James that you didn't know about him as a result of going through this experience with him? He's very patient with stupid people,

meaning us. There's many times where he's like, where's this? And we're like, oh, Aaron and I learned that we never told this. We learned that we just lied to him a lot. He'd be like, where's this? We're like, oh, it's right here. And then we'd go find each other, like, where the hell is this? Like, I don't know where it is. Do you know where it is?

I don't know. And we'd go searching through things, and somehow, luckily, we'd find it and be like, oh, it's here the whole time. I knew where it was. So we lied to him a lot. But I think with that level of fatigue and exhaustion and the relentless of you know the relentless pressure of it you know having to keep going uh you know you find out who everybody is

right like you're not going to hide behind some kind of pleasantries like your true character will be revealed right the dark the light the good the bad um i mean what were were there some moments where it it felt like maybe it was starting to break down and you guys had to have a team huddle or any stories like that? I don't think anything really broke down. I don't think so. I think it was very interesting the way that Aaron, myself, and Sonny worked together. And our number one goal was James.

And we kept that at the head every day, every moment. James was our focus. And that's why it worked so well. Would you agree, Sonny? Right. It was just, he was our focus. And it wasn't about me and it wasn't about Aaron. It wasn't about Sonny and it wasn't about any of us.

It was about James and making sure that he got to 50. That's why he hired us. That's why he asked us to crew for him, because he knew that we would be able to help him reach 50. And as long as you keep that, as long as we kept that in the front of our heads, then we are good to go. Nothing happened.

Right, right, right. All right, so Sonny, get on that mic. Yes, sir. All right. What do you make of this, all this, this whole business? What's going on?

I was going to say that. I was going to say, I'm Joe Mama. I was going to say, I married the guy a long time ago, well before he was the Iron Cowboy.

I always knew he was a dreamer. Frankly, like as a couple, I'm a, more of a structured, type A,

I like things to insert away. And I remember when we were first married, James would throw stuff everywhere. He's not a super tidy person, as your secret revealed. And it would make me absolutely crazy. First year we were married, and I decided one day, like, I'm going to have to change. He's not going to change. And so I started leaving things as therapy and not putting them away.

and so I started leaving things as therapy and not putting them away and not you know and eventually I feel like James and I came together where he could tell that I wasn't making as big of a deal about it so he started to make an effort I started to make an effort so forth so this is definitely relevant our marriage where I am not necessarily a safe person like I want a job as an accountant and I want a salary I grew up, my dad was an entrepreneur. But James is definitely a lot more dreaming than I am typically used to. And so he's taught me a lot about life, a lot about the things that matter, a lot of things that don't. He used to say to me, who cares? Why does it matter?

And I was like, I'll give you 42 reasons why it matters. And then I'd think about it and realize it didn't really matter. So through this journey leading up to this, he's definitely come my way. I've definitely come his. And so when we take on a big project like this, we work really well together. So I was ready for it. You were ready for it. So when he first raised the idea and said, this is what I want to do, what was your reaction?

and said, this is what I want to do. What was your reaction? Well, we were in my friend Dano's kitchen in Chandler, Arizona, getting ready to do the race in Arizona. We just finished Lake Havasu. And he's like, I have this great idea. This is during the 30 through. Yeah, 2012.

This is race number 20. My timing may not have been the best. Hey, this is my story. Okay, so back to my story all right how long you guys been married 14 14 and a half years so we're almost we're between the two arizona's and he's like i have this great idea i want to do 50 ironmans and 50 states in 50 days and everybody in the room's like awesome and i was like do you have any respect for me whatsoever? I said, you can't even wait until this project is done. Because 2010 and 2012 were extremely hard for me.

I was at home with the kids. Our kids were very little. We didn't have hardly any income. We were living off like $1,000 a month up until two years ago. I mean, we literally were living on starvation basis. Right. Five kids. And they're all like, there isn't that big of an age gap.

Oh, yeah. They're all right in a row that big of an age gap like oh yeah they're all right and we had our kids sleeping next to a fireplace in one of our houses because we didn't have heat in their bedroom and they all shared a room they didn't have any beds we'd sold them off i mean we we came a long way through this so in 2012 which was a particularly hard year he for him to mention this i was like are you freaking kidding me because he has no idea what happened to him he He wasn't there. And I never told him. I never told him about the hard stuff because I wanted him to stay focused on his goal.

So I had really good girlfriends that I could vent to, and we could go work out in the morning and talk about it. So I was so mad he presented it before this project was even done. So I said, you can't talk to me about it until February. I figured that would give me some time to heal. So he came to me in December. I said, not until February. He came to me in January. I said, it's not February. I figured that would give me some time to heal. So he came to me in December. I said, not till February. He came to me in January. I said, it's not February.

And then he came to me in February and said, it's February. This isn't going away. Yeah, so he wanted to do it in 2014. I didn't think that was an appropriate timing, so we decided on 2015. I said, I hate the idea, but I'll support you. And then, of course, our kids got older. I got a little better break.

And then we charged this project. One thing I do want to say is that... But you eventually came around, and you were excited about it. Yeah, it was just I needed time to recover from that first event. And then I was ready. I was ready. But I do have to say, I went back to school, and James supported me through that. And I timed that.

I had five semesters left. I squeezed it into four to finish just in time for this project so while James was planning all this project he was also taking care of our two youngest kids while I was in school right and he supported me through that whole thing on top of that I didn't help with any of the planning of this project so I set up the initial states but this guy hammered it out on his own and of course he had a couple people helping him and stuff but I give him a lot of credit for that because i didn't i didn't do anything he really owned this project and he really grabbed it by the horns and he took care of it so i know that was hard for both of us i wanted to help him he would love a little more help but based on

circumstances we couldn't do it and he still pulled it off and i'm really proud of him for that yeah it's interesting it's a it's i think it's a really powerful lesson in in making a dream happen. Right. So here you are. You got all these kids. They're young. You're struggling financially. And it's very easy to just say, look, we can't do this right now.

Like maybe in a couple of years when we're more stable or, you know, we'll reevaluate. But I think it's it's really a testament to when you have that dream and you just start moving forward on it even if you haven't gotten it figured out how you know you can make it happen by just you gotta you can't wait until it's all planned before you start you have to start right i'm sure you didn't know how you were gonna get the finances i mean this is a huge endeavor right so there were so many moving pieces that had to come together but you just begin you believe it's going to happen and then things start to slowly fall into place yeah it's like uh it's like having a kid you're never ready to have that no never you're never ever ready to have that first kid and you just know that you'll you'll have it and

everything will be okay and i was like this this was my this was my baby um and i wasn't ready when i started and i had no idea how i was going to get there i just knew i'm hey i'm having this kid right and um and it's gonna it's gonna grow into be an awesome adult yeah yeah i had an observation um you know just sort of witnessing everything that was going on in utah on that final day i recently had uh this guy on the podcast called Ryan Holiday. He's a brilliant writer. And he wrote a book called The Obstacle is the Way. And it's really kind of a modern review of the philosophy of Stoicism. And he kind of looks at the works of like Seneca and Epictetus and Marcus Aurelius. And he's sort of applying these, you

know, two, three thousand-year-old principles to modern-day life. And I read that book, and so I've been thinking a lot about that, and I was thinking as I was watching you, like, I don't know if you've ever read a Stoic text, but you are demonstrating, you are emblematic of that philosophy in motion, which is really this idea that, philosophy in motion which is really this idea that um you know our culture kind of has it all wrong like we're we're supposed to be you know failure avoidant we're supposed to try to find the easy life we're trying we're trying to you know make the safe choice so that we don't have to face you know difficult times and all these sorts of things whereas you know you're you're what you accomplished and kind of what where i see you standing is somebody who says, no, these obstacles are just there as character builders.

And you meet them as they come. And you find your way around them. And that's the path, right? That's the path to fulfillment. That is how you build character. And how you act in the face of those determines who you are. Well, we were expected to fail. Like, that was the overwhelming majority like we announced it and there was like failure like you there's no way

it's impossible you're just setting yourself up for failure so why start and i just like i just fueled me man i just it's just like bring it on like i know who i am and i know what i'm capable of and so just just to have it was really it blew my mind that this the the way that the general population that like they think it's just like they come up with this attitude of why try you're gonna fail i'm like why not try, why not try? I might not fail. Well, it's an interesting thing, too, because you think, like, if you publicly announce some aspiration, that people will give you a pat on the back and cheer you on. And that's not the way it works.

We got lynched. And so you have to choose the people you surround yourself with very carefully. And that was another thing that I took away from, you know, observing the day is that you had this core group of people around you that were protecting you who held that same vision. And that vision was very strong. And the level of focus was, you know, really palpable. Like, you could feel it.

Like, it was in your eyes. Like, this is happening. You know, and you were cordial and polite, but you were standing in your strength. You know, there was like a quiet strength about what you were doing that you could feel just being around you. It was like, oh, yeah, he doesn't doubt it for a minute. I can feel that. I was so inspired by my oldest daughter, Lucy. She was on the last day when I came out of the water, she was doing the periscope of me coming out of the water and we it was a little

bit of a pathway walk and they and they gave me these blankets and they and i apparently i looked completely pathetic because people on periscope was like somebody carry him somebody somebody put him on on your back well the fazari video that you just posted today showed a little bit of that like you were in bad shape yeah and lucy read that um they were said like lucy why don't you carry him or have somebody carry him and lucy went my dad is strong he's got this and at that moment i was just like oh that i've set like just this coolest example and she gets it like she had so much conviction like there was no way in her mind that her dad like wasn't gonna finish and it was just just so cool that I had that core support that you were talking about that surrounded me.

And my daughter just exemplified that. It was just like, in that moment, I was like, damn, she's got my back. That's cool. She's ready to go head to head with anybody who says you can't do it. She just was so engrossed in it. And she was like, that wasn't even like, my dad, he doesn't need a piggyback. Screw off. Dude's got this.

So I was just honored in that moment. I'm like, that's my girl. She's awesome. Yeah, when I arrived and I saw you and then Lucy was there and she was like, I was going to call you. I was going to call you and tell you you had to come. And I was like, you should have called me. She said, we should get Rich Roll to do a follow-up interview. I say, he's doing one. She's like, well, I was going to say, I was going to call him up. I'm like, should have called me She did She said We should get Rich Royal To do a follow up interview I say he's doing one She's like

Well I was going to say I was going to call him up I'm like okay I know I saw her outside here too I want to She's like Mom told me to go downstairs

I was like No no no I want to get you on record She keeps the other kids quiet Oh okay Well hopefully I can get Oh absolutely Get her in there

We'll give her a moment It would be really cool Because I mean It was really unbelievable That I mean And it was It became that i mean and it was it became apparent to us deep into the campaign she started doing all the 5ks and it became just this monster goal for her to do all 55ks and there was days where where the the

caravan because of long travel we would have needed to roll out early and and the whole crew said no lucy's got to do her 5k today and the whole crew made a sacrifice because lucy needed to do that 5k and she did it she did it man she did all that we were gonna leave early she's like what we're not leaving that's not 5k right literally like we have to leave before james finishes like she was so upset like any time i hated it yeah that's so sweet yeah we should get her up here and yeah yeah yeah so how so how was the family vacation experience of having all the kids shall we start yeah you know sort of involved in this whole thing so when we saw you in salt lake city i was still feeling really nervous because a lot of these flights were

red eyes and um i remember when i was young i came from a of eight. My mom couldn't handle all the little kids. So we'd get home from somewhere really late and she couldn't carry us in. And I hated that. Like I'd be asleep and I wished so bad that she could have carried me in. And so it seems like such a petty thing. But with my kids, I've always really tried to do that for them. You know, if they were tired, I tried to alleviate that burden a little bit, especially if I dragged them somewhere late at night.

So here it is. I'm thinking, OK, there's more kids and I'm going to be able to carry, you know, they've gotten older. I put them on my back and done a piggyback in. So that first, when we got to LAX, I felt all the pressure and stress leave from preparing for this trip. So when I saw you, I still kind of buzzed and jazzed about what I had taken to prepare. And then when we got into Hawaii and we had done the red eye flight and we had gotten people on the rental car and gotten in, I was like, okay, it's going to be okay. I'm going to handle this.

So I was really nervous about the red-eyes and the late nights with so many little kids. You know, I did my very best to make sure the kids were having fun. My one motive for this trip was to make sure they had the best summer of their lives. That panned out maybe 50% of the way because I ended up becoming a project manager, which I had not anticipated. So I ended up needing to delegate and deal with some of the business stuff that I hadn't anticipated. But I still really focused on making sure they did fun things. If they said, not another museum, we skipped the museum.

We had days that we really enjoyed where we were able to just lay low and just hang out in the RV and do nothing. There were a lot of local people. I'd say the majority of our fun ended up being from locals who prepared and presented opportunities to us. We picked up these tickets for you. You can come to my house. We have a private lake in the backyard. Oh, that's cool. So I felt my burden alleviated big time

from the locals who stepped in to entertain us so we had done some research and had some ideas of things we wanted to do but the locals really stepped up and they really made the trip for us right so we had a great family trip they slept all night long they didn't wake up till after the swim they were able to go to the store and spend the money they'd been saving for the last year um they we had a really great trip as a family party down but was there ever a moment where you know one of the kids you know quinn's like can we go home i want to go home so there's two there's two experiences going on in my mind i'll try not to get mad about one of them just kidding so one was about five

days when our friend liz who we were staying with right now, when she came out, when she was getting ready to leave, Quinn's like, she's going back to Utah. When are we going back to Utah? He's like, I want to go back to Utah. Dad told me he'd take me to get a Slurpee. And I realized in that moment, Quinn missed his dad. He and James spent a lot of time together normally, and he was ready to go back to Utah. And so I thought, well, it's not bad seven days before. But Idaho Falls. Because dad's around, but he's not really around. He's not. I mean, people don't, I don't think people quite comprehend how it was, obviously.

But I got maybe five minutes a day. And if I got time at night, it was fighting for his attention with everybody else. And so, I mean, it was impossible. So to get the kids in there, especially where the kids take more effort and energy, we had to really shelter that because James couldn't emotionally handle that much physical stress, emotional stress, mental stress. So we tried to get the kids engaged in what he was doing so they could spend time with him. So they would ride their bike with him or they would do stuff with him so that it didn't deflect from what needed to be done right um so the night before we came to utah it's idaho falls and everybody's outside

cheering and having freaking out because james has finished this second to last race and we're going home and quinn is in the motorhome having this wicked tantrum, freaking out, screaming, crying. Of course, I can't remember what it is about. And he never has fits. So this one was like, you're caught off guard. And I knew he was just tired and wanted to go home and freaking out. And Lucy and Daisy come in, and they get in this big fight. I have the entire motorhome screaming and crying

as I hear the cheers of everybody having a party outside the window and I was like I hate my life well and that was the one thing I finished that race one day left yeah one day left and everyone's like we're going home and there's a big party and I'm looking around like where's Sunny yeah I'm inside and I found out later she was you know dealing with a few kid problems and and but those were far and few between chief said where were you i said being a parent but one of the one of the things was when we were out there is everyone would ask man how are your kids just killing each other in the motorhome and i'm like no they're having a great time they're really good friends and and and really we didn't have i mean for how close

quarters we were and for how chaotic it was the kids were just unbelievable and you guys had airbnb was a sponsor, right? So it seemed like not every day, but you had houses kind of periodically where you guys Yeah, the Airbnbs didn't work out as well for the family. Those were better for the crew because they were further away. And we only had four hours in the day as a family to do things in order to come back and meet with James. And so we used the Airbnbs, but they weren't as economical as we originally thought

they'd be. So originally we had this vision of what it would be like, and it didn't work out. Like, oh, you're going to hang out at this house. Yeah. Because it's like, well, why would I go spend four hours at the house if I can take the kids to the county fair? And then by the time we were done, it's like, okay, now it's time to go back. So we used the Airbnbs, but they weren't a place of refuge like we initially thought they would be. Like I was thinking, oh, start my day there, make lunch, hang out, make dinner, pack it up. It wasn't like that at all because everything was like minute to minute to minute to minute. Yeah, it's like a military operation.

Yeah, but they loved it. I mean, they didn't care that they were on top of each other. We had 12 people at a time in that RV, and they didn't care. They knew. I mean, the little kids just ran around and played like any other summer day the big kids were engaged in the project it was great I'm tired but it was awesome they loved it they had a great time all right so Lucy's here high five girl you rocked that was awesome I know so 55ks in 50 states are you sore are you tired tired? How do you feel? I wasn't sore until the very end. Throughout the days, just like my dad, he's like, I have to get through this.

So every time I didn't want to run, I just thought of my dad. And I didn't get sore until the end when I stopped running. I'm like, oh, yeah, I guess that was kind of some work. Are you going to be like your dad now? Are you going to have like a, what's your next challenge going to be? I'm not sure. The bar's set high. Her next challenge is seventh grade.

Surviving junior high. If it's like athletic, most of it is like I do it based off of what my dad does. So if it's going to be something athletic, it'll most likely depend on what my dad does next but i guess yeah so they know what you mean i know what you mean okay okay so um when my dad does something i do something in my own way that kind of i don't know like your version yeah like you're my version of it so i don't think my dad's gonna do anything crazier than this so anything athletic i'm just gonna have to wait and see and then like she loves to run and so she's yeah she's gonna start a cross-country team at her junior high school oh cool i was gonna say were you a runner before this um i didn't do like

cross-country or track or anything but i did all the running things with my friend and what was the experience like for you of being there for your dad and watching what your dad accomplished um it was really cool um i loved i loved running the five kids with him because um normally he's home all the time he works from home and so we didn't get to see him as much so that 45 minute 5k that was my time with him during the day and then um i also carried his water so i loved it every time i ran it every time i'm running i'm like dad i need i need to carry your water so it was really fun that's cool are you glad to have your your dad back now yeah yes i bet all of your uh your your sisters and brothers think the same thing too yeah cool so was it was the experience what you thought it was going to be like

um kind of kind of not a lot of states weren't exactly what you think they'd be like alaska it's not like snowing all the time like antarctica and like the west um like nothing's like the wild wild west sort of thing so it is different but a little similar like i didn't expect to be with my dad all the time and stuff right so how does it feel to be an inspirational figure now um it's really cool i'm just kind of I just I'm kind of like the leader of my friend group. So it's kind of different to have like random people be like, I love your hashtag Lucy Post. I tell them about. OK, so you're like captain of the social media. Yeah. So me and my sister, we were the social media agents.

She didn't really do it as much. It was she just did her own page. I was doing it with my dad. So every time I posted on my dad's instagram account i did hashtag lucy post so that way everyone every time i posted people like oh his daughter posted that not like someone random on the crew so it was really cool to see all the people who actually noticed the hashtag lucy posts and then um um and i do hashtag lucy post people like um that's really cool that you're running all the 5ks my five-year-old daughter is gonna run the one mile with me or something something so it's really cool to actually be inspiring yeah that's awesome well you did a great job congratulations thank you cool i can't wait to see what you're gonna do next hashtag lucy post that's right keep rocking lucy um all right so uh i want to um get into

kind of some of the harder moments i mean what what was the hardest state what was the lowest moment or was there ever a moment where you thought you know this this thing is in peril um the the first the first real tough moment for me was arizona um it was number seven and uh i uh i i was having just a little bit of knee pain nothing nothing big and i'm huge on on you know preventing stuff instead of treating it later and so i threw on some knee braces that i brought along that I'd never used before. And what ultimately had happened is it cut the circulation off. And so just the blood and everything just started to pool from the knees down.

And so for the last six miles, I was getting no blood flow to the rest of my body. And so my body just kind of slowly started to shut down. And, you know, I developed pitting epidemia. Explain what that is. Yeah, it's just when all the blood pools and nothing is circulating. And so basically my calf and my shin, it was like a softball was in there everything was super super hard um just from lack of circulation and uh and i just i became completely out of it and unaware and i couldn't feel anything from the knees down i mean aaron can and casey can attest to how you know kind of dramatic it really was. And I finished that race just, I don't know how,

but we did from the help of Casey and Aaron. And I remember taking off those knee braces and just went, there's no way I can start tomorrow. Like, there's just no way. I can't feel my legs. Did you know it was from the knee braces at that point? Yeah, we figured it out pretty quick. Dr. Dallas was there, and he was like, no, that's exactly what caused it. We've got to get those off of you.

And he diagnosed it really quick for exactly what it was. And I had those Normatec boots. And we threw those on, and we let them run for four hours, four or five hours. And I just slept through the night just thinking, well, it's over, you know. We'll drive to the next state, but I can't even walk. And woke up the next morning and it was completely gone. Right.

And I was just like, holy crap. Yeah, that's amazing. There's a thing we're hoping for. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Normatec boots work. Saved me. I mean, that's just a huge plug for them. That's an incredible turnaround yeah and uh you know and then the other one was um you slept in them all night

i did it for most of the campaign yeah i would run them for almost every night yeah too right and for people that don't know normatech boots are these compression boots that are there they have like uh industrial grade inflation right so they really put a lot of they just basically inflate around your legs and your feet and what what does that do it just pushes the pushes so it starts at the ankles and it just gets tight in compartmentalized fashion and it slowly moves all the blood up and out to the heart and then it like releases and like brings in all this fresh new oxygenated blood and so not only is it like flushing the toxins and the lactic acid and everything out it's just circulating and bringing

in that fresh blood right so did you sleep in those every single night after that i did it became a staple in my recovery thing and i would run them at least two hours every night right and so so what was the kind of evening recovery protocol? Like I know you had, so you had like sort of medical help, but not all the time, right? That guy wasn't there for you the entire? No, he was only there four different times on the weekends. And then my massage therapist came in two or three times.

Right. And then aside from that, it was just, you know, whenever Sonny had the energy to work on me. And then just the Normatec boots. And then sleep when we could. And just food. Right. So, I mean, you've got to bathe.

You've got to get your kits washed. There's stuff that has to happen before you can hit the sack. Yeah. So one of the challenges every night was finding a place for me to shower and so that was that was aaron and casey's job right they had to have something that's super important because you can get infections like crazy yeah cleanliness i mean it was i had to have that shower like i was like where am i showering tonight right and we i mean we would stop at um someone that was running with me that night ultimately lived a mile away and

like you can shower at my house. And so on the way out, I'd quickly shower and use some random person's shower. Right. A couple times we used 24-hour fitness or anytime fitness showers. Or someone had a membership and they'd let us in. Right, right, right. And how did you stay on top of saddle sores? Well, I didn't really get any saddle sores it was more the

hemorrhoid um area that happens yeah i mean it didn't happen till halfway through the campaign and it just became one of those things that i had to manage just it just it's there you're gonna you you just have to deal with it and uh it just became a matter of just managing that pain were you ever like i can't sit down on the seat um every day yeah one of the roughest rides i think like the first 20 miles are tough and then you kind of settle yeah kind of one of the worst rides i did was um in new jersey um it was a horrible day um that that state is one giant pothole and like just a million cracks in the road and so i did most of that ride standing up yeah just because every little bump i was just like oh good hell you know right it was just so painful and and one of the things that happened

was is that you've got big too big uh arteries or veins that run up the inside of both your legs and just from the rubbing on the seat those had become inflamed and they eventually calmed down but it was like like new jersey was inflamed you know in the saddle area inflamed on the inner of each leg and it was just so intense and just the worst road conditions and i mean that was what that had to be one of my hardest bike rides inner thigh veins like almost brought him to tears yeah well three days it probably lasted yeah i mean like in your tears like he it was hard to control that almost got him right they were bad let's go to the day when uh you crashed on the bike yeah that would that would be the second

hardest day is a tennessee number 18 and uh you know that that that initial fatigue from those early early states we hadn't caught up on it yet um and at that point it didn't look like we were ever going to catch up on it and during the bike ride portion was one of the mentally hardest things i had to do because i would inevitably at some point of the ride i would start to get tunnel vision like severe tunnel vision where i was just like falling asleep like going out and initially we didn't necessarily associate it with fatigue we thought maybe okay why wouldn't you associate it with fatigue i would seem to be the first thing you would associate it with we didn't know if it was something i was eating that my body was disagreeing with or if it was the the temperature that we were in

yeah it was hot and and we tried to figure out okay which days are you really starting to tunnel vision we didn't know if it was a sodium or potassium issue something my body was missing but ultimately it was just overwhelming fatigue and it was 106 degrees outside i was about mile 30 and you know my heart rate was about 103 on the bike 103 to 108 yeah it's super super super low and and you know you get into those aero bars and you're looking at either the wheel in front of you or the asphalt, and it's kind of like mesmerizing you a little bit. And when you're swimming and biking, if you fall asleep, Slow motion.

Anybody that says they've fallen asleep running, that's like, well, you didn't. You zoned out. You would have hit the ground. Right. I can't imagine you could fall asleep swimming. Exactly. Cycling, I can see, because it's happened to me, so I know what that's Right. I can't imagine you could fall asleep swimming. Exactly. Cycling, I can see because it's happened to me, so I know what that's like.

Yeah, and because you can coast a little bit. And at that point of the campaign, I could literally fall asleep in three seconds. Like, literally three seconds. I mean, I fell asleep through an entire chiropractic adjustment. I'd fall asleep mid-sentence. I'd fall asleep mid-social media post. I mean, the crew would laugh at me just because I couldn't make it. Like, if I sat down, I was asleep.

And so, in Tennessee, it was 106 degrees, I'm exhausted, I got into this section, I'm starting to tunnel, and just, it had happened in the past where I'd started to drift to one side, but it's like when you're driving and you catch yourself and you wake yourself up. And then this one time, i just didn't catch myself and uh and i fell down to the right and it was just i went into the ditch and had i been 10 seconds earlier or 10 seconds later i would have just tumbled through the ditch but i hit a driveway and so it was it was the asphalt and so um hit my head really hard, got some good road rash. I mean, you can still see on my hands here where I hit the ground.

And then the worst of it was on my hip. I started to, that's where I took the main impact. And because I have no fat on me, I mean, it was like bone and muscle just like crashing on the ground. And so that began to plague me. And so I was only... Dorsitis on the hip. Yeah, so it filled up with fluid. So sleeping became very hard on that hip.

And that was only 30 miles into that ride. And so I had to get back on my bike, finish that bike ride, and then run a marathon that night, which we did. It's really... But you don't... Like you kind of have a little bit

of adrenaline though for that. Like it's more like the next day, right, when you wake up and it's super stiff. Those are words out of your mouth. Yeah, it was the next day because I got through the rest of that bike ride, and I was like, holy cow, this is so cool. I crashed, and I'm back on the bike, and people are going to talk about this. And then I did. I ran that marathon that night, and it was just like, oh, God, this hurts,

and this is going to suck. But it was not sleeping that night because the pain had set in pain was you know the pain had set in like those endorphins and from the crash and everything are gone and you're in the back of the subaru yeah and that was yeah that was the night i had we had a i don't know why we're back there it was a longer drive longer drive and so we had to put me in the back of the subaru which is you know no room to do anything in um and then we had to get up the next day and do it and when i woke up the next morning i went oh man this is not good right it's actually amazing you only crashed once i mean how many times do you think you fell asleep and just the sheer with that number of miles like

it's almost like you know if you statistically you know forget about falling asleep on the bike like something's gonna happen and you're gonna tumble at least once so yeah for sure i was i was relieved um that it only did happen once and and you know when you get a lot of riders out there riding in some of the states that we had and you don't yeah you've never ridden with them before and some people get excited and you know they're taking selfies right in front of you while riding you don't know how well they know how to ride you know and so i got i got really good at just like putting my hand on people and like moving them out of the way or like I was very vocal too I was like I need some space like you cannot ride right here and we had we had four

or five other people crash I'm around me and one guy one guy was pretty bad but yeah we you know just to have that one mile tumble was was called lucky or called whatever you want right fate when he could have turned into traffic and fallen or he could have could have been really bad he was lucky he fell to the correct side and you know was there ever a day where you know aaron woke you up or casey woke you up and you're like can't do it man i don't know um you know every day it was just like they woke me up and i was like holy crap it's time again already you know just like right and i mean because you're probably i mean you're you're probably lights out like you said in three seconds and then you're awake all

of a sudden right well and and they started having to wake me up early because it took so long to get me up like they would wake me up and give me food and i'd start eating and next thing you know the food's in on the side of my face and i'm asleep again right and and you know it seriously took an effort to get me up during those first 30 and once we got to the last 20 and i had you know maybe either once you're cutting down yeah once you're cutting down and i and i had made a very conscious you know mental or physical shift at that point, it became easier to woke me up. And the crew kind of knew exactly when that moment was. And they could tell, okay, waking me up is not as big of an ordeal now.

And, I mean, there was even one day where I got up early and jumped in the pool and the crew was still in the motorhome sleeping and they all got mad at me because it was so out of routine. It was constant. I was trying to surprise them. I was like, dude, I can get done with the swim before they even wake up. And so that was a lot of fun for me to do it, but I guess it pissed them all off. It threw off the routine.

Yeah, it threw off the routine. But waking up for me was difficult in those early stages just because I was so out of it. And yeah, I did have those moments where i was like i just i just can't do it and there was probably one moment it wasn't in the morning i think it was after a bike ride it was after a bike ride and we were it was mississippi we were all in the motorhome and um it was just the four of us and i i remember coming in off the bike and getting in the motorhome and just laying there and i just broke into tears and i just said i just can't do this anymore

he fell asleep for just a little bit yeah and they woke me up and i just said i just can't do this anymore he'd fall asleep for just a little bit yeah and they woke me up and i just said i just can't do this anymore so that was number what 19 no it was after the mississippi it was the day after the bike crash yeah so 17 right right right right he was full-on sobbing like we didn't even know what to do to console him yeah you're just you're you're you're as raw and as you know connected to who you really are as you possibly can be and i think that's that's the allure of this kind of adventure you know and i know that that's a big driving force with you like how do i how do i really learn who i am you know how am i going to know what i'm about

what my limits are you know it are? And you made this choice to endure this to try to answer that for yourself. So, in looking back on it now, can you articulate what it is that you've taken away from it? Was there a moment of self-discovery that is something that you can speak to? You know, just as far as the raw personal side of it, I haven't come to grips with that yet. Just the sheer accomplishment. I'm realizing now, post-event, what type of place i had to take myself to and and uh i've been

thinking all week knowing that we're going to have this conversation how do i articulate how i took myself to that place and and what that place was like um just because sitting here and and that's why i wanted the these guys here with me today was because there's moments that i don't remember like i had to take myself to such a place that it was just like just like this like beast mode times whatever you want to times it by in order to survive and get through it and and like i said earlier these guys can kind of identify or isolate when i made that switch to just like james to like the iron cowboy to where it was like okay this is his alter ego and he's out here to accomplish this and and it's now it's now business right and and when you're in it there's no there's no time for reflecting upon it yeah

you know I would imagine only with time and distance will that become clear to you. And I will say this. One of the things that I did take away from this whole journey is everybody served me, whether it was Casey or Aaron or Sonny or the film crew or complete strangers that I didn't know that just stepped up to the plate. It was amazing every single day on the bike portion or on the run somebody owned just like manned up and said i'm your guardian today without saying it and and they just they just rose up in every single one of the states there was just some some dude that was just like i'm it like i'm right some some dude that was just like i'm it like i'm right i'm your guardian today and it was just super cool and and for me the biggest takeaway i mean i'm i'm sitting on the other side of this

now just going man how how can i serve somebody else you know i i learned how to accept that just that that role of accepting and how to take that, just take that love and take that, what they wanted to give me. And I wish I could just like bottle this feeling because I don't want to lose that. You know what I mean? And if I start to lose that, I just want to open that bottle and just like take a sniff and be like, okay, that's the guy that I want to be. And for me, it was just like, like right now, I'm just like, who can I serve and what can

I give them? You know, how can I give them everything? And that's what I don't want to lose. And that's my hope is that everybody can have that same experience of being just that, just being served and learning that lesson of how to accept service. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think, you know, we talk a lot about giving and being in service, but I think it's difficult to receive it, you know. And I think it's hard for men, too, maybe a little bit harder for women in general, you know, to, whether it's accepting help or admitting that you need help or being on the receiving end of love, you know.

I think that's a powerful lesson. And that was beautiful how you said that, man. Thanks. I appreciate that. When you're in your alter ego and you are the iron cowboy and you have the blinders on and, you know, the peripheral vision kind of goes away and you're in the zone, you know, how are you occupying yourself mentally through so many hours where you know even if people are running or or riding with you you know you're you're kind of on

your own um you know what's going through your mind yeah it's it's weird you you have or i had so much think tank time out there, you know, just so much. That's not always so good. No, it's not. It's not. I just, you know, you, you either, you either punish yourself with the things you've done wrong in your life, um, or you, um, you fill your mind with, um, things that you want to do right and things you want to change.

And, uh, I just just did so much thinking. I went through all of the scenarios as far as like, okay, what do I want to do? The biggest and horrible question I got every day was, what's next? I didn't want to articulate it to anybody because I was so hyper-focused on the next step. Yeah, what's next is getting to the next lamppost. Yeah, exactly. And people just couldn't get that. But for me, that's kind of what I thought about all day long is like, okay,

I'm very present, but I need, you know, what is next? And what's next for my family? And, you know, what am I going to do to continue to set the best example I can for my kids? And I mean, mean you know we were criticized for doing this in june and july the hottest months of the year um but there was no way i was doing this without my my family um and hopefully people that that really followed us

um could see that family's obviously everything to us and uh you know for me to to know that my kids were going to be there at the finish line was everything to me like i knew that they were they were in the state and if even if they weren't there i knew that they were you know close by and uh one of the highlights of every day was that 5k with lucy um that was really my one-on-one time with my family even though it's just the one member of the family it was still that represented time with my family um so that you know that that 5k was super special um and just to get you know to get through the day i mean i thought of everything like i i know who i am exactly like like there's no there's no question. So who are you? Yeah.

I'm just James. I'm just James. Is there a difference between James and the Iron Cowboy? There is. And I think that's ultimately why I was so successful is, you know, my bike kit or whatever I put on that day for athletics was like my Superman cape. And it was my alter ego. And when I put that outfit on, he knew what his job was. And when I take it off, I'm just James.

And I just want to be a father to my kids and a husband to Sonny. And that's who ultimately I am. And I just want to be a father to my kids and a husband to Sonny. And that's who ultimately I am. And so that was really cool for me because I can, it's fun to be able to flip that switch and, for lack of a better word, be a superhero. Right. But to do what I did, it took flipping that switch and putting on that uniform. Mm-hmm. But I mean, even, I mean.

Do you feel now you can kind of flip that switch off and you're at home and you're with your family is there like what is the emotional experience of that is it relief is it elation is it contentment oh i'm content um you know aside from you know and i hope we get into this a little bit if we have time, but aside from all of the negativity that was out there, I know exactly why we did this, and I know exactly who I am. I know who my wife is. I know who my crew is, and I know why we did this. And I wouldn't take back one moment out there.

So let's talk about the negativity a little bit. There was a little online grumbling, a little, you know, sort of, you know, some negative arrows that were thrown your way. I guess it came. I mean, I didn't really pay attention to it. In fact, it was funny, like when I was running the marathon with you and then I kind of opted out to go talk to your documentary guys they were like you know what do you think of the you know some of the things that were being said and I was like I don't even know I didn't even know I wasn't even aware of it yeah but I guess there was some some mud kicked up over the fact that you had to run one of the marathons on an elliptical trainer yeah and that turned into ellipticate ellipticate so what

happened what was the big deal here? Well, so after that crash in Tennessee, which was number 18, I was also dealing with just an incredibly painful toe. And so it was a combination of a few things. It was the crash and the stiffness of that. We were already pushed inside that day because of a hurricane and so we we did the swim and i and i experienced some pretty severe cramping that day in the water and then sunny was just livid because she went somewhere and came back and i was i was asleep in the motorhome um just devastated from from the day before and and the cramping in the pool and so we were just so far

behind schedule and we finally got me on the bike and um just tried to loosen up that hip and get it going and then um i called my coach and it was time to do the marathon run and i called my coach and i said hey what do you think about if we did did the marathon on the elliptical? Because in my mind, it was like, what's the overall goal here? And the goal was to cover 146, 140.6 miles every day and to accomplish 50 in order to raise money for the charity and to continue to empower people. And the option was quit, you know, or jeopardize that bigger goal.

It was more about problem solving. Yeah. Nobody was even thinking that it mattered. Right. It was the thing. So we didn't realize it was going to have such a huge impact. It was like, okay, we have this problem. Let's come up with a solution.

That was the thinking. So this was the solution that James came up with. I mean, matter to who, though? You know what I mean? That's the thing is we didn't know. It only matters to you. We didn't know it would create such an uproar. Like, we didn't see.

So I suppose that it would disqualify you from, like, the Guinness Book thing, right? But that's not really what this was about. Well, here's the reality of the situation is that media is the one that said it was a guinness book this was never a guinness record we've done guinness twice we know what it takes to do guinness yeah to do guinness you gotta have people on on site they have to be you have to pay them a ton of money there's a lot of stuff they have to be official events like we've done this before and what these were this was a 50-day campaign in order to raise awareness for the cause and to test myself physically and mentally. And for some reason, this elite group out there just felt betrayed.

By elite group, are we talking about the slow twitch forums? Yeah, those guys. We're going to assume it's an elite group. That bastion of positivity on the internet. What they said is that I had disrespected the people that had gone before me. And I'm like, I don't know these people that had gone before me. Well, first of all, no one's ever tried to do what you've done before. Right, and so they wanted me to this this rule book that didn't exist and and it was it was the rule book and the perception

that they had come up with in their mind and it wasn't anything close to what what we were trying to accomplish well and we felt like it lacked a little bit of humanity it's like here's this guy that's doing this crazy thing falls falls asleep on his bikes, crashes, comes up with a solution to a problem. Like, no one cared about James' condition. All they cared about was what they had decided he should be doing, which I found odd. The comfort of their cubicle, their laptop, or whatever.

Yeah, from the hidden screen. And here's the thing, is I was willing to take that criticism to achieve the higher goal, which was to continue to empower people. And if anyone out there could see just the overwhelming positivity that comes through our Facebook and our email every day with just the overwhelming, incredible stories, I mean, it was, I have no regrets about continuing and doing it the way that I did. And that, and, and, and I, and I totally could have run and I probably would have been fine and the campaign would have gone on. Um, but the reality is, is, you know, to those

guys, I thought about this a lot because I knew this was going to, this was going to be a question. And, and the reality is, is look, I did 18 consecutive ironmans i crashed on my bike i ran the marathon that day i woke up the next morning i swam 2.4 miles i biked 112 more and then now i want you to come down and join me and let's have a six hour conversation on an elliptical and see how you feel and then i got up the next day and i did 32 more full ironmans so criticize all all you want man but and if you really want to talk about it come to utah and we'll have a six-hour conversation right i mean how did that even how did it even get get on your radar i mean did somebody email you guys or like oh you're yeah yeah yeah yeah well we've never the upshot

is stay off those slow twitch we've never he just said this needs to be addressed we're like what needs to be addressed like we had no idea and i've never read it uh read the the forums and nor will we nor will we i i don't yeah i have a policy about not being on i don't go to that forum so i haven't even i it's not like in researching for today i looked at it i won't look at it yeah and for me i am a hundred percent um confident and satisfied with what we did we covered like i said 140.6 in 50 consecutive days through all 50 states and it was an unbelievable experience and I wouldn't change a thing. Was there other controversy? Or was it mainly Elliptic Gate? Really?

Does anybody even know about the other controversy? No. I mean, that was probably the biggest one. There was some just stupid stuff about the charity and how there was a couple of people that thought we were stealing from the charity for some reason. When if you click on our website, it goes directly to Jamie Oliver. Jamie Oliver took their time in fully endorsing us. Like six weeks.

Yeah. And so we had. After they committed. And I know you had a little bit of a struggle trying to find the right charity to begin with that you wanted to get behind. Yeah, we did. And we partnered with them just because I love Jamie Oliver's message and what he stands for. And they're just such a big organization.

And then so there's just a lot of red tape and they want to do things the right way. And so they agreed early on to do it, but there was just some red tape we had to get through. And so there was just some criticism early on that we didn't have our ducks in a row and that we were just pocketing this money. So far as to go all the way to sponsors, people contacting the sponsors. Yeah, which is just so ridiculous. And completely, I mean, they don't have proof of anything.

And we have every record showing that we've donated every dollar. It was all itemized, right, on our online? Because you're the organized one. Yes, sir. Right? I mean, the Jamie Oliver Foundation actually had to call some people

and tell them, no, look, they've given us every dollar. Oh, yeah, that's cool. They still continue to say stupid things. And on a personal level, I mean, he's been supporting, I mean, he Instagrammed a few times. He did, yeah,

which is fantastic for us because, I mean, I don't plan on stopping and we've got creative ways to continue to raise money for his foundation. And I said it from the very beginning, my goal is to raise a million dollars. Whether I did that in the 50 days or whether I did that over the next 10 years, that's still a goal of mine. And I'm 100% with the goals that I've set out to do,

and so I fully plan on making good on this one, too. So what's the plan in terms of continuing to fundraise like how's that going to work yeah we're going to do um oh make him wait anyway you don't have to well just just a real simple one is i'm going to go speak in schools we're going to do we're going to do a big shocker he's going to go talk in schools of course he is we're going to go we're going to go talk in schools. Of course he is. We're going to go talk in schools and corporations, and we're going to do fundraisers inside those schools and then do some corporate matching.

And we're going to run some Iron Cowboy events here locally and some virtual stuff through the country and all the proceeds and everything and through some of the website sales and stuff that we do. And all my sponsors, for example, we're going to put up on Monday a Rudy Project 40% off week-long thing, and all that money is going to go to the charity. So all of the sponsors are stepping up and saying, hey, look, we love what you do.

We want to continue to help you raise money, and we're going to donate a portion of sales to it. And so I've got great sponsors. And so great sponsors, great products. We sell them. We make more money for the charity. And so there's 10 different ways that we're going to do it and um there's some fun ones that you don't know about and it's got to be gratifying it's been cool to watch just in the last two days how how finally the national media you know has kind of caught

on to this i mean you were on fox you were on fox fox news that was national right it was national we did a couple fox australia is that what you were doing they were there were a couple a couple different morning shows in australia where i had to be in salt lake at 8 30 at night for their morning show um and then i just got a text right before we started that uh fox sports radio show wants to do a half hour spot with me and so awesome that's really cool that's great man it's awesome i didn't want to be the only guy in the media covering you guys you know thank god you know like they're they're finally figuring it out because i you know when i was walking around the the base camp i'm like where's the today show where's good morning america where's espn like

why isn't why isn't anybody here to actually cover i mean you had local affiliates and stuff like that but it wasn't like i want to have a conversation with dean because that guy's been on every show on the planet i wonder how he does it dean dean hernandez yeah like how does that yeah he i mean but it took him many many years you know what i mean he had he had like a resume of other crazy stuff that he had done so that by the time it came to him doing that running across the u.s he had all this street cred you know so i think it a lot of it is just that this was the first super crazy thing that you had done and so no one you know it's like it's a big ass to get people on board with that idea yeah when it's such a question mark you know what i mean so

but they're all happy to pat you on the back once you've finished you know what i mean once the work is done so a lot of that yeah yeah but it's. I'm really glad for you that the message is getting out in that way. It's great. Yeah. And what's more important to me is, obviously, national recognition is fun. But what's fun for me is the message that we're getting from, like, global, like, all corners of the earth. Like, it's way cool on my Facebook page to get those private messages just from individuals. It's way cool on my Facebook page to get those private messages just from individuals.

And also, we've set up a dedicated email address. It's called ironcowboyinspired at gmail.com. And anybody that wants to share their story with us, if you've been inspired or have done anything, just anything, just share, you can, you can email us at that way. That's awesome. Yeah. Very cool. It's iron cowboy inspired at gmail.com. Yeah. Cool.

And I'll put that in the show notes for people so they can, they can dial that up. That's great. Um, yeah, I feel like, uh, this really was a social media experiment.

You know, when you guys started, uh, how many people did you have on your Facebook page? Eight, eight, 8,000 or something like that. Yeah. And then we're, you're on your facebook page eight eight thousand or something like that yeah and then we're you're at like 60 60 something 60 something so you were picking up

like a thousand to 1500 people a day in the last month you know it's crazy and meanwhile no television coverage you know i don't know what it was like when you're in the various states maybe there were some local tv stuff but on a national, nobody knew what was going on, you know, and this was really playing out on Twitter and Facebook and people from all over the world were gravitating to your page. And I know from my personal experience and some of my friends, like I call them, like, they're not even athletes. And they're like, yeah, my aunt, you know, in wherever called me and said, do you know about this cowboy guy? And like, you know, so wherever, called me and said, do you know about this Iron Cowboy guy? And like, you know, so people were, like people that have no relationship to sport,

let alone triathlon, were hip to what was happening as it was playing out. And it really was this thing where every, I mean, I know that I was, and I know lots of other people, like when I woke up in the morning and opened up my laptop, like first thing, Iron Cowboy page, what's going on? Where is he? Is he alive? You know, it was like, it was like a thing, Iron Cowboy page, what's going on? Where is he? Is he alive?

It was like a reality show. He's start today. I know, right? And that was the really- Did you have a sense of that? I was in this giant bubble, and I started to get a sense of it probably between 40 and 50. And it was during one of those states, I can't remember which one,

but there was a 60-year-old lady that showed up at the pool. And she just said, I just want to swim 50 meters with you. And I was like, that's so cool. I'm like, you know, because I respect my elders, and I'm like, this woman who is just like wise in her life. Right. She's not on the slow twitch forum. She's not on the slow twitch forum. She's not. And she's, you know,

she's, she's, she's out, she's outside of that triathlon world that, that we've crossed over into. And I just thought, man, this is the coolest thing.

And so she jumped in my lane and I just swam. I just matched her stroke and we swam 50 meters together. And I gave her a hug and she got out of the pool and I finished my swim. Right. But it was just a real cool moment for me to just say, oh, man, this lady just wants to swim 50 meters with me. And that impacted her day. Right.

Which is cool. That's cool. But there had to be, was there like a strategy about how you were trying to tell the story online? Like who was responsible for making sure that pictures were going up online? Because you knew people are waiting. They want to know.

I mean, Aaron, Casey, were you guys doing i mean i know you know lucy's on it so initially during that first week um it was just so chaotic and we we had someone that we thought was going to be doing that that for us and they completely dropped the ball um on that and we had sponsors that were calling in they were upset friends are home yelling at us like what are you talking about and then we just had we just had no idea and people like what is going on out there people sponsors that were calling in that were upset. Yeah, friends were home yelling at us. We're like, what are you talking about? We didn't know nothing was being posted. We just had no idea. And people were like, what is going on out there? People want to know.

Yeah, early on, you guys were spotty. Yeah, totally. We thought it was being handled, but it wasn't. And we had no idea. And then all of a sudden, everybody just said, what's your login? And then we just created these little tiny teams. And it actually worked out so incredible because we created these other storylines i mean the wingman got this following of their own right and people that

yeah i mean they were just like like people like you're wearing like but i mean it just became like what are the wingman gonna do next and so that became something that people are the wingman gonna do next next? And so that became something that people tuned in for. What are the wingmen going to do next? Yeah. And then, yeah, exactly. We should talk about that. And then it became like, it's like, what's Sunny's perspective, what she's doing? And then hashtag Lucy post.

And then people were waiting. And then Dr. Dallas's messages. People really loved to get his perspective, what was going on. And then Rivers came in halfway through tell everybody who rivers is so now we're getting eight posts a day right yeah so and rivers is uh an ultra sponsored athlete like i am and um and he came out just just to say you know what i'm just to help just to help and i've got your back and he was like an elite marathoner he's a 220 you know marathoner and just

just a really cool guy and and i met him in arizona and he did the did kind of the day with me um and he just had like massive doubts that i could do this and he did on a mountain bike by the way yeah he biked with james and flagstaff on a mountain and about halfway about halfway through our ride together in flagstaff he was like no, no, I think this guy's got it. But he needs my help. And so he called Ultra and Ultra said, yeah, okay, go out there. And he became Ultra's social media guy out there and really became... He was delightful. He became my confidant out there.

Yeah, he was cool. I spent a lot of time with him. And so he started doing just these really deep blogs about what was going on with me because he probably had the best seat in the house because he would come out and ride with me or run with me. And he would really see my vulnerabilities and I would open up to him. And we had some great conversations. And so he was able to come back and really articulate the emotion that was going on out there.

And so people started to gravitate towards his blog and what he was saying. And so about that moment is when we had the Wingman became popular and the Rivers blog became really well respected. And David, my coach, David Warden, his blog was getting some great attention. And now we're starting to click with some great social media and people were engaged with Sonny's side of it. And so it just became, you know, we kind of got it together. The real people sharing honestly, you know, so there's an authenticity there. And people could start to feel that.

Right. And I think that's what created that like emotional connection where people were really locked in. You know, it was really cool. So when you were in the, you know, when you were having those vulnerable moments, you know, what are, what are some of the tools or, you know, what was the facility that you try to employ to, you know, just get to the next lamppost?

Like what kind of mental tricks did you have to play on yourself? Like, I think people who are listening want to know, like when the rubber was meeting the road and you were you know having these dark times like how did you break past that um i think once i switched over to the iron cowboy you know about halfway through where it was that alter ego um i no longer had to you know i didn't have to i didn't have to do those moments it just became that's today's task and it was just it didn't it didn't matter at that point but that's easy to say yeah that's easy to say like like how did that actually work you know what i mean like like when you're when

it's you know late at night and you know the peripheral vision is closing down and you just want to lay on the pavement and fall asleep in three seconds how are you how are you getting through that next mile or when you're on iron man 30 and you can celebrate that but you also realize you got 20 more how do you like how do you grapple with that mentally yeah you know i don't know how to articulate that yet. That's okay. You don't have to. Yeah. I'm just interested in... It's one of those things that I turned into a bit of a zombie out there.

And I don't remember a lot, like you said, especially, you know, 30 through 50. Just because it became so overwhelming that that was the task at hand and uh i've said it but it's it's my kids um um they they literally drove me to the finish line every day if your family had not joined you on this trip, do you think you still could have done it? I would have found, yes, only because I would have found a way to involve them in my mind. Did it make it a hundred times easier because they were there? Absolutely. Whether they were there in person or in spirit, they have still been there and that would still be my driving force

so yeah and there it was being accomplished either way there's a weird thing that happens when somebody does something extraordinary where the reaction to it is to celebrate it, but then also perhaps because it's difficult for people to wrap their brain around doing something like that, the next impulse is to say, well, he's just a freak of nature.

You know what I mean? So you start out as, you know, I'm not a professional athlete. I'm an everyman. I'm a guy just like you. I got kids. I'm married. And somehow that gets lost in the result yeah and then you're like written off as somebody who's different from everybody

else yeah there's and i don't know where to draw that line um because i mean we've done every physical test i'm like there's nothing like outstanding about me like across all levels like my vo2 but there is but there but there is in the sense that i think it's something that's not measurable yeah i don't i don't think there's a test out there that that can test it i'm just saying like you're not going to get on a treadmill and and show numbers that you know you got a lance armstrong type vo like that. Exactly. And so like any physical test that can be run on me, like I'm just as average playing Joe American as you can. And I think that's what, if I could bottle it, I'd be a millionaire.

Whatever that thing that we're trying to identify right now, like what is it? What is it that separates me that allowed me to do that? I don't know if it's the holy grail of a question that we're trying to figure out i don't i don't know if i have the answer if sunny has the answer yeah i mean so where does the drive come from where does the focus come from what's what's fueling this like where when you when you first had the idea to do this what's behind that i just thought it'd be fun man i like like i mean i said in the first podcast that i wanted to find my mental and physical strength and you said oh you're gonna find it uh-huh um

and you did yeah no absolutely i did i mean there's there's no question there was although you could have done another you look pretty good when you were finished with 50 you could have gotten up the next day and done another one absolutely i could have there's no there's no question um i mean sitting here one week removed it's like man how did i do that well when you're in the moment and you have to get a job done had someone said hey you you know you got to do that again tomorrow i'd be like oh this sucks but okay i can do it um and i probably could have kept going and who knows i i joked and tortured myself like the ultimate test would have been okay the goal is not 50 50 50 it's how many ironmans until

you stop right you know and i was just like what like like to really find your is that what's next no it's not but like that that's that's truly that's the breaking point like well how many like well how many is it yeah it wasn't 50 right you know and i'm not saying by any stretch of imagination that was easy and and I walked through 50. But it's like, well, what is the number? Like, what is it? And did I make it through 50 just because mentally that's what I said I was going to do? And that's why I made 50? but you know you know back to the back to the thing that that you know people

say that i'm special or have a gift or i'm not average i don't i don't know what it is um i'm i guess i'm still trying to figure out how i did that and and what it was that allowed me to do that and i think it's man it's a space between your ears i mean, and what it was that allowed me to do that. And I think it's, man, it's a space between your ears. I mean, that's what it has to come down to because there's no test out there that, that can quantify what that is. And, and that's what I've been trying to figure out how to articulate is the space that I occupied and, and what it really took for me to accomplish that um yeah to be determined I guess

maybe uh Aaron or Casey can weigh in on this like if you had to articulate what makes James special I I think I think they probably have a unique perspective and even I think even Sonny should weigh in on this because it when you i mean you know you you've accomplished big things and you're rich and you just go out and you do it and i'm james and i just go out and i do it and for us it's not like i i still don't i still don't understand the enormity of what we did i'm told it was big you know i'm told that that was one of the biggest human athletic feats that's this world has ever seen but to me i'm just like no it can't be i mean it's just like i'm i'm just james right

and so i i mean i love and respect these guys i'd be interested to hear you know what they say or if they even have anything to say what do you think um aaron yeah wingman one is what we call him and I'm going to try to take you seriously even though you're basically sitting next to me naked in a grass speedo we got our plant based speedos going on but what I really love about James

is just how I don't know if I even have words for it but it's just basically the guy he is he just has love for everyone I mean he wants to help you out he wants to do everything for you and so he's just like an ordinary guy that's kind of what he's trying to say

but in the end he wasn't trying to get any kind of recognition for this like if he would have had like two people at the finish, he would have been happy. I mean, he didn't care if there was a million people there or one person. He is just out there doing his thing, and he just wanted to finish, and he just had the main goal of his childhood obesity.

I think that was kind of his driving thing, because he wanted to bring awareness for the cause. Right. And what did you learn about yourself or what did you take away from the experience of supporting James in this mission? The biggest thing I learned is this. Anything's only as impossible as you really think it is and that doesn't matter what other people say and doesn't matter what the world views

but if you have a goal it's only dumb if you don't believe in it mm-hmm yeah that was one of the things that came up in our first podcast that you had said which is it doesn't matter what your goal is. If you don't have total conviction and belief in it, it doesn't matter. Right? What about you, Casey? The thing I got learned from James is just the conviction aspect of it. Because if you're not convinced yourself that you can do it,

you're not going to. Luckily, we didn't have to worry about the failure aspect of it. But I think a lot of people shy away from things because of failure and not seeing failure as a positive thing. And in teaching, failure is actually a great thing. Just from the experience I've had over these years of teaching is that when you fail, that's when you find out

where your weakness lies and then you can make that a strength. I'm glad we didn't have to go through that at all. But it was cool just to see his determination, really. A lot of people don't have that conviction, I guess is what it comes down to. Sonny, what do you think thank you what'd you

learn about your husband also i'm also curious uh about uh how your kids took it when they would see their dad like in bad shape or like super tired was that ever scary for them no they laughed yeah there's something about seeing him vulnerable like this was the first time i'd ever seen him cry he cried every day when he spoke at the 5k i've never seen him cry never seen him vulnerable for me the i don't know if anybody else saw it but there was it was early on in the campaign and i was suffering and quinn as a five-year-old, it was the first time I'd seen him. He saw his dad in pain. And he came up and he just started crying.

And I don't know if anybody else saw it. I remember this now. It was early on. It was early on. And he was just so, you know, he still remembered that relationship with his dad at home. And when he saw me hurting, I mean, he just had this, like, deep connection to me. And for a five-year-old just to, like, start crying because his dad's hurting and just that connection was just so sweet to me.

I remember I said, you're okay, right, Dad? Yeah. You're okay. So that Quinn would know. And then Quinn said to me after, he's going to be okay, right? I was like, yeah, he's going to be okay. I think it was in Arizona. It was early.

It was like, I remember it being Vegas time. Yeah. They just, I mean, the older girls, they loved it. And every time he cried, they loved it. Because I mean, we don't see him that vulnerable. James and I have always been really great problem solvers together. And so if things came up that were hard,

we problem solved. We didn't wallow in it. We didn't cry about it. We just addressed it. great problem solvers together. And so if things came up that were hard, we problem solved. We didn't wallow in it. We didn't cry about it. We just addressed it and figured it out. So to see him vulnerable, these weren't problems he could solve. They were problems he had to just tough it out through. And I mean that as an everyday being an Ironman.

Iron distance triathlon. Yes, be very careful. Per se. And ellipticating, per se. very careful per se and uh ellipticating per se but that vulnerability was really that was good for me the cease and desist letter is in the mail i can't believe i haven't got one yet um but i think the thing i learned best about james is that he was a lot more dependent than he probably would have let off to be you know like he he needed the emotional support so our friend kyle showed up in las vegas and he said james needs somebody to take care of

him not get him his stuff not make sure he has he needs someone to love him and he needs to know that person's there to nurture him so that's something that he i mean he's kind of always needed that naturally but that was shown really strongly through this course that he needed emotional love but at the same time he didn't have time for it so we had to get creative as a family how to show that love to him and that emotional support without infringing on you know a time frame well and that's when the that's when the wingman antics really amped up yeah is that was their way of showing he hated him too james hated him in the moment he's so annoyed it was so annoyed so annoyed but but

you know obviously being removed from the situation and looking back that was casey and aaron's and and the crew's way of saying, Emotional support. We love you. Yeah. We love you, and we're still here to play with you. Yeah, we're your friends. We're not just your wingmen. We're here as your friends. Remember us? We used to play together.

We understand that you're suffering. We know you can't play back, but we're... Going to make you suffer. That was their way, and I knew that at the time. And once we got into the last 10, I started to be a little bit more playful. But it was 10 through 20, I was like, come on, guys. Right. Seriously. When for me, it was hard for me because there were so many people around.

It was hilarious. I listened to the first interview last night with you, and he said, the motorhome is our space for our family kind of thing there was not a minute that thing was not a public place i mean it was insane i went in it and i was like oh my god disaster in there really so it was my it was funny one of our friends said i expected it to stink and i was like oh he's like it's not that bad i'm like what are you talking about he's like i thought it would stink steve gray said that so we did did, we did everything we could. I'd spend 90 minutes every night getting that cleaned up and prepare for the next day. But my way of showing emotional

support was just being there with James. So I would have to fight the crowds to go back and just lay by him. Or I'd have to fight the crowds to just see him in transition. Anything like that where I thought I can't do anything, but seeing him touching him once even if it's for 30 seconds that's all I can do. One of my favorite pictures was when I'm laying there asleep and my son is falling asleep on my stomach or my chest

and I just look at that picture and go man that was a sweet moment even though I was asleep the moments were so far and few between where I could just like sit with one of my family members. What was interesting is Dolly, our fourth little daughter, she's sassy and so fun. I'd be like, do you want to say hi to Dad? No.

Just on her lollygagging way, happy as can be. I already said hi to him. She was just happy to be there. She's on her own trip. Yeah, she was. She would say hi to James and give him a hug and be on her way. She never felt any disconnection. She just was happy to be there.

It impacted Quinn the most. Yeah. He's the one that spends the most time with James. And the older kids, of course, they understood. So it was different. So David Goggins, like legendary ultra endurance athlete, famously said something that's always stuck with me, which is when you think you're cooked, you're completely done and you can't go on, that you've actually only accomplished about 40% of what you're truly capable of. And I would imagine that you would agree with that sentiment, maybe change the percentage number. Yeah, I would have said one through 20 i was cooked

completely yeah um and then somehow we figured out how to do the last 30 and over the last 20 we became stronger and over the last you know on the last one we put forth our best performance right so and when we were when we were running you were sharing with me a little bit about how you you would you would use some mental tricks like when. Like when you had like 11 to go, you would say one to go to 10 to go. You know, just a way of breaking it down into bite-sized chunks that you could like mentally compute. But if you had to kind of estimate

how the challenge broke down in terms of physical versus mental, what does that balance look like for you like how much of the struggle was mental versus physical i could only get my body um so ready physically um and then once once it was at that level of readiness um it was a matter of just just making the body perform and doing what we needed to do to make sure that the body didn't break down and so i mean this thing was 80 mental um if not more um the body was going to do what it was going to do and i've proven to be durable um but it's because of the small things that i do um but it was it was it was definitely a mental thing and that's that's

the part that we can't you know we haven't been able to put our finger on or quantify that separates me. It's because it's that space between my ears. Like I said, I'd be rich if I could bottle that and sell it to people. Have you always had that kind of ability to focus, that kind of mental fortitude? Or have you trained yourself to get to that place? His wife says yes. You know, I think it's something that— I mean, what were you like as a little kid?

Yeah, you know, I think it's definitely something that you're born with. But like any talent, if it's not developed, it goes wasted. And so I grew up wrestling. I wrestled 11 years, and I think that was the start of building that mental toughness. And then I think just by fluke or of building that mental toughness um and then I think just by by fluke or chance through the first two world records through the the half ironmans and the full ironmans um it just continued to be developed and so it wasn't something that I set out to you know a skill set that I was like you know I'm going to develop this and I realized

I have it um now I I mean i now know that obviously i have a gift um to be able to control my mind and do mindless tasks or or suffer in a way that that that many most can't or or have a can-do attitude during the whole process i think that's i think that's the other thing that i that i learned about myself is um you know, deep in the campaign, I could have been this miserable herb-er than I was, and I could have treated people worse than I did. And I think that was one of the highest compliments that I got was every single day we involved and had massive interactions with the public. And it didn't take an overwhelming effort for me to do it, to interact with people. At times it was hard because I did have the same question every single day.

And I had a conversation with Sonny about, look, I think it was race 41. I said, we have to realize that this is our 41st experience of this, but this is their first experience today. And so we really tried as a team in an effort to make those individuals on that day feel special and feel like it was their first experience it was impressive uh to watch that because i could i could get that from the facebook feed um and you know to be able to be present and put a smile on your face and take the selfie and you know do the 5K and put your arms around people when lot of people the slow twitchers don't understand is

this wasn't your your regular average endurance thing where i was just going out there and trying to endure it was something that just on a whole other level where we connected tried to connect with the public and do something very different i mean to go out there we could have just just hammered through the days and ignored the public and and gotten through and got to the next state and had some good time and saved time and had some good rest and got some food in there and had some downtime with the crew but the reality was is we took that time every single day and and that that's what was important to us and that's where we got the exposure and that's how we raised the money and so so that was, that was critical time for us, but, but it was just such a huge expense for us as far as time during the day was, which impacted my recovery, my sleep and

everything for the crew. And we got compliments every single day because of that aspect that we tried to incorporate in this journey. And I tried to take responsibility doing as much of that as I could to relieve James of that. So I knew that if people could come to me, they wouldn't need to ask James as many questions or get as much information from him. So I did everything I could to do as much visiting during the 5K or pre-5K to answer any question. It's like a politician. It's like a politician on a whistle stop. It's like you need a handler to pull you out so that you don't have to so that you don't have to be the bad guy saying i can't take more pictures and i would answer the repetitive

questions so that they weren't asking him if they had to ask him a question it would be a little more you know heartfelt like a more unique question so i tried to do as much as that as i could so that they didn't all turn to james yeah utah was the very first state that I said no to pictures while we were doing the event, that they had to wait until the end because there was just so many people. And it was hard for me to say that no, and I felt horrible when I did it. It had to, though. There were way too many people.

Yeah, it would have just started this onslaught. I heard you say it. I mean, you handled the whole thing with a lot of grace. And then what a lot of people didn't see is we were there until 10 o'clock at night. No way. It was like 1045. That's why I had to get back on a plane and come back here because you lost your voice. When you texted me in the morning and said, I can't do the podcast, I was like, that guy probably stayed there until the last person was going in.

We didn't go to bed until 1230. Yeah, I left at like 1030 and there were still like 200 people there. It was dark out. We had a huge lineup and i and i stayed there until and it was funny because every person that came up they were like i know you're exhausted but yeah will you do this and i was like well if you know i'm exhausted but i did i i thought it was important to stay there one chance i thought it was important to stay there and do that and and it was my way of saying thank you um for the overwhelming support and love that we felt through every single state especially in utah what do you want people to take away from this

there's a there's a million different things but for me it's just um just just be empowered to do that hard thing in your life. And that it'll be okay. However low you are, wherever you are, there's someone out there that loves you, and there's someone out there that can support you, and there's a way to climb out of it. And it's just take that first handhold and just start climbing. And it will get better,

and you'll come out on top as long as you keep climbing i like that man that's a pretty good place to end it i think yeah but i gotta get sunny's version of that what do you want people to take away there are no dead ends in life only speed bumps so i like that. When you think you've hit a dead end, it's not a dead end, it's just a speed bump. Stand up, keep going. If you see a speed bump coming, slow down a little bit. Either you can floor it and hit it and get it over with or you can slow down, go over it gracefully, but there's no

such thing as a dead end. Just floor it, skip it, hop it, however you need to with that speed bump. And if someone's listening and they're feeling stuck in their life or they're feeling frustrated floor it, skip it, hop it, however you need to with that speed bump. And if someone's listening and they're feeling stuck in their life or they're feeling frustrated in their ability to either figure out what it is that they're passionate about, or perhaps they're having difficulty in achieving whatever goals they've set for them, what kind of inspiration or wisdom could you convey? I think the biggest problem that people have is they don't know what they actually want. They want something different,

but they don't know what they want. Until you know what you want, you'll never have it. So figure out what you want, then work on the way to get it. The hardest part is figuring out what you want. Yeah, people don't know. They want something different, but they don't know what they want different but they don't know what they want or they think they know what they want but that's not actually what they want right yeah it'll solve all my problems yeah all right two final questions the first one is what are the wingmen gonna do next what's up wingman well you guys you could you just you should just go pro go wingman just go from one

ultra endurance event to the next if being wingman could pay the bills that'd be awesome oh yeah anyone out there hello

wingman incorporated sponsors or hire us for the weekend they do parties we're free we're free we're not free

we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not

we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not

we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not

we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not

we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're not we're free we're not free they will come to your house I think we're going to keep up some things going every once in a while just kind of you should have your own

Facebook page first of all you know that's so funny he had that great idea but then it's all separated from James and so at some point

listen at some point you know you gotta leave the womb you gotta leave the nest we want the Rich Roll listeners to vote if these wingmen

had their own line if people would follow what do you mean their own line? their own video blogs or their own Facebook page we say yes I think so the wingmen have garnished a following and just cause you guys

start your own thing doesn't mean we can't plug it into mine we're not getting divorced Casey that's what I'm worried about And just because you guys, if you guys start your own thing, doesn't mean we can't plug it into mine. Well, what's cool about what... We're not getting divorced, Casey. That's what I'm worried about. The cool thing about where Sonny and I sit is by accomplishing this 50, it's really the start line for us. It now gives us a platform to go out and continue to do certain things

to empower people and to raise the money. And so for us, it's a start line. So the wingmen don't have to, you know, there's still going to be opportunities for them to pop people and to raise the money and so so for us it's it's a start line so the wingmen don't have to you know there's still going to be opportunities for them to pop in and out because um wait till the documentary comes out it's just gonna blow up yeah and so so it's actually great because they don't they don't have to retire um because i know they don't want to um but we're going to be doing a lot of cool things over the next four or five years that'll uh continue because now that we have this momentum and and and for lack of a better word a captive audience um we want to continue continue to do what we've been doing in the past and are you uh are you going to continue to pursue endurance sports do you have perspective on that

yet or is that is the jury out on the jury in terms of what you're doing next like physically yeah i'll never do something that big again i'm excited to do to dive in and do team relays and a lot of fun things i'm excited to put together a pro team and be the head of that and i'm excited to do coaching um i'm really excited to do speaking um we're writing a book we're doing the documentary um my time is going to be definitely occupied um i'm not i'm not going to walk away from from racing but it's not going to be it's certainly not going to be 50 50 50 and what's the what's the timeline on the documentary do you know um yeah we'll have it uh they're already done through half of the edit

we plan to release it by the end of the year what's how are you gonna do you have a plan and how you're gonna release it how that's gonna work uh they've got a couple different avenues they're just waiting for the the right one right yeah and what about a book yeah we're writing a book all right good cool so uh final question the facebook page is great all the beautiful pictures of you and the crowds of people and the smiles and the selfies and all of that but i think the one image that really like knocked people out was that picture of your foot that really rocked some people i looked at it and I was like, yeah, of course, that's what his foot looks like. But for a lot of people, you know, the uninitiated, that was like, oh, man, look at that.

So a lot of people are like, how are his feet doing? His picture, it was worse two weeks before that. Oh, yeah. But no follow-up? Yeah, there it is. That's getting better. Like, he's already lost the toenails there. Like, this is getting better. What's crazy about that? Do you lose lost the toenails there this is getting better

what's crazy about that do you lose all your toenails pretty much? no I still have a few left that picture was when it was on the mend it was crazy the toes that decided to freak out they needed to do so on their own time

unfortunately they did them one at a time so it just prolonged It was crazy. The toes that decided to freak out, they needed to do so on their own time. And unfortunately, they did them one at a time. And so it just prolonged that thing. And it really wasn't the running shoes. It was the bike shoes. That hurt them. That hurt me the most. And so it was just a scramble to get me bigger and bigger shoes. I did the entire Ironman Arizona with my shoes outside of the shoes on top of the oh you

did my feet outside especially when you have that like edema right how could you possibly get your foot in a bike shoe yeah so i did the whole thing with it with it on top of the the bike shoe and so that was that was just like wow mashing the pedals that day um and then it just became a managing them and waiting for each toe to go through its process of whatever it needed to go through. I remember in one state we actually cut out the tips of the shoe just because that pressure was so big on that toe. But they're great. They're good now. Glad to hear.

Totally on the mend. The people demanded to know. Yeah, they're on the mend. It's funny. A lot of people said, no, we weren't wondering. And I was like, are you kidding? Everybody's got to be wondering what those feet look like. Yeah.

Well, great, you guys. Thank you so much for the time. This has been amazing. And I've said it before. I'm going to say it again. I honestly think, without any hyperbole, that what you guys achieved as a team is truly one of the greatest accomplishments in the history of voluntary human endurance. And by voluntary, I mean, you know, there's people in prison camps and things like that that have to endure certain things against their will. But in terms of something that you willingly signed up for, it is truly remarkable.

And as somebody who has a small taste of, you know, what you had to endure, it's nothing but mad love and respect. And, you know, I think for the average person out there who maybe has never, you know, run a 5K or anything like that, it's very difficult for them to wrap their brains around just what an extraordinary accomplishment it is. And it's been my privilege to spend time with you guys and hopefully you know shine a little bit of a spotlight on what you're doing and um i'm just i'm moved emotionally it really it really was emotional for me to be there in utah and see you do that and uh just i'm so impressed not just with the physical accomplishment, but the way that you guys all acquitted yourself and carried yourself.

It was really impressive, and it's amazing, man. So keep doing what you're doing. Keep spreading the love, and I can't wait to see what you're doing next, man. So thank you. Thanks, Rich. Thank you.

I appreciate you guys. Peace. Plants. Peace. Plants. Power. All right, we did it. Did we do it? I think we did it.

I think that was pretty great. What do you guys think? Let me know what you think of the episode in the comments section on the episode page at richroll.com. And hey, have you picked up our new cookbook and lifestyle guide, The Plant Power Way? 120 plus. Amazing. Easy to prepare. Delicious.

Plant-based recipes and guidance for the whole family. It's a primer for the modern family or the individual just looking to take your life and your health to the next level. The book retails for like $39.99, but you can pick it up on Amazon using the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for only like $23. Sometimes it's like $21 on Amazon. It's complete steal, you guys. So check that out. And for all your plant power needs, visit richroll.com. We've got nutrition products like our Ion Electrolyte Recovery Supplement as well as our Vitamin B12 Supplement.

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We got temporary tattoos. We got limited edition art prints, both framed and unframed. Basically everything you need to take your health and your life to the next level. We got your bases covered at richroll.com. Keep sending in your questions for future Q&A podcasts to info at richroll.com. We're going to be doing more of these, as you know, and I'm loving all the questions that you guys are sending in. If you're into online courses, I got two of those at mindbodygreen.com.

If you're into online courses, I got two of those at mindbodygreen.com. The Art of Living with Purpose, which is all about getting focused, getting organized, setting goals, achieving them, getting your life on a solid trajectory. As well as The Ultimate Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition, which is a great sort of complementary piece to The Plant Power Way. It's all about how to get more plant-powered into your life and really take your health, your plate, your diet, your kitchen, your nutrition to the next level. Both of those courses are multiple hours of streaming video content, and they include online communities and all kinds of good stuff.

So go to mindbodygreen.com, click on video courses, and you can find out much more information about those there. Thanks for all the support of the show. Thank you for telling your friends. Thank you for sharing it on social media. We really appreciate the support of the show. Thank you for telling your friends. Thank you for sharing it on social media. We really appreciate the support and the help. This has been a grassroots movement of growing this show and it's really been gratifying and amazing and wonderful and beautiful to see it kind of blowing up on iTunes and all over the world. And I really

appreciate all the amazing emails and social media posts and feedback that you guys have been giving me. So thank you so much. And that's it. Use the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases to support the show. And that's all I got to say today. All right, you guys, I'll see you in a few days.

Make it a great week. Carry on some of this inspiration from today's episode. Translate it into action in your own life. Peace. Plants. Thank you.