The Rich Roll Podcast - The Spirit of Timothy Shieff — Freerunning, The Practice of Being & Living Transparently

Episode Date: May 4, 2015

When the question turns to living your truth, this first line from Timothy Shieff's self-authored bio says it all: I'm a Human practicing Being. Widely considered one of the world’s best Freerunners (more commonly referred to as parkour), Timothy — aka Livewire — specializes in a death and gravity defying skill set that leaves mere mortals agape. Scaling buildings and leaping off rooftops with effortless grace, Tim is a perfect physical manifestation of focus, coordination, strength, agility and fearlessness. Indeed, this proper and polite young English lad can do things you can’t. And yet his expression is fueled not by competitive drive, but by something deeper. Tim's particular brand of parkour is subversive. Reframing the inanimate building, rooftop, curb or railing, Tim inverts the human relationship between human and object. Truly a social and political performance artist, Tim leaves me inspired to live more harmoniously with our ever-changing environment. Despite captaining Team Europe to a world championship on American Ninja Warrior (and setting records along the way), Tim's athleticism runs a distant second to his passion for advocacy. A powerful young voice in the vegan movement, Tim wakes up every morning enthusiastic to not only expand his own horizons, but inspire others to do the same. But more than any of this, it's Tim's spirit that moves me, and why I'm so proud to introduce his return to the RRP. In case you missed it, be sure to check out my first conversation with Tim — RRP #86. Intelligent and articulate beyond his years, my hope is that this conversation leaves you with a new mindfulness and perspective on your path and priorities; pondering the impact of our consumer choices on the planet; and questioning culturally entrenched assumptions about the relationship between nutrition and extraordinary athletic performance. I genuinely hope you enjoy the conversation. Peace + Plants, Rich

You know, warriors stand up for the innocent. The real heroes are the ones that are out there defending the innocent, the voiceless. That's free-running parkour artist legend Timothy Sheaf, this week on The Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the podcast. I'm Rich Roll. What do we do here? Well, each week, I sit down with the best and the brightest, the most interesting paradigm-busting minds across all categories of health, diet, wellness, lifestyle, fitness, nutrition, the arts, health, diet, wellness, lifestyle, fitness, nutrition, the arts, entrepreneurship, and spirituality. Why do I do this? To help you unlock and unleash your best, most authentic self. So I

appreciate you dropping in. It's been an extraordinary week for us. If you're a long-time listener of the show, you know that our new book, The Plant Power Way, just came out this past week, and I'm overwhelmed with all the early feedback and the support that you guys that our new book, The Plant Power Way, just came out this past week. And I'm overwhelmed with all the early feedback and the support that you guys have given us. This truly has been a community effort. And you guys really rose up and supported us. And I can see that you're enjoying the book. And it means so much. I mean, we already have just one weekend, not even one weekend. We already have 72 reviews on Amazon, 71 of which are five star. The other one is a four star, so it's all good. And just my Instagram feed, like overflowing with

pictures of people unboxing the book and preparing recipes from it and just all the kind words that you have shared with us. And it means a lot. It was two years in the making and now it's out in the world and to see you guys kind of enjoying it and embracing it, I just could not have scripted a better outcome. It's been super cool. So thank you. It's also been an exhausting week of promotion. You guys are probably sick of me.

I was on a ton of podcasts. I just did the Joe Rogan Experience podcast. He's got a huge audience. And that was really fun. We did that on Friday. It's already up. I'll put a link in the show notes to that so you guys can check that out. I also did a Reddit AMA and I'll put a link up to that as well. That was really fun. I basically spent an entire day, over six hours, just answering questions, all the questions that kind of come up that we feel generally and hopefully that will be helpful to you. We also had an amazing book party at Skirball. Thank you, everybody who showed up for that. We recorded it.

It was moderated by our friend, Charlie Knowles, who's also been on the podcast. And we had a great kind of Q&A with him and also with the audience. And then a musical performance by Julie and our boys, as well as Julie's father, who is 91 years old, who accompanied them on harmonica. It was just a beautiful evening. So thank you guys for showing up for that. We recorded the whole thing, and I'm going to release that as a supplemental podcast later this week for those of you who are interested in kind of checking that out. who are interested in kind of checking that out. We're brought to you today by recovery.com.

I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care, especially because unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices. It's a real problem. A problem I'm now happy and proud to share has been solved by the people at recovery.com who created

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I empathize with you. I really do. And they have treatment options for you. Life in recovery is wonderful. And recovery.com is your partner in starting that journey. When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. Let's just get into today's guest. Great guest, back for the second time on the show,

my friend Timothy Sheaf, otherwise known as Live Wire. Timothy is widely considered one of the world's best, if not the best, free runners. In fact, he was the world champion of free running back in 2009. Well, what is free running? It's more commonly referred to as parkour. You know what that is. It's the guys that can seemingly, with grace and ease, climb walls and jump off buildings and do all the kind of stuff that you see in the Bourne Identity movies or the James Bond movies. And it's a sport, but it's also an art. And for Timothy, he really has a very interesting and unique kind of approach

to how he pursues his athleticism. It's almost like a physical quasi-political kind of performance art. And what's most interesting to me is not so much his athletic accomplishments as it is his evolving perspective on life. This is a guy who's a deep thinker. He's highly intelligent. He's very articulate. And he's got a wide range of thoughtful perspectives on a whole panoply of topics and issues. And we get into all of that today. If you're new to the show, you might want to go back and listen to my first conversation with him. That was episode 86. And you can pick up where we left off. And today we go a little bit deeper.

So let's just jump in, pun intended, into the fascinating mind of a guy I think is making the world a better place one day at a time. You're a busy guy. You've been quite the world traveler lately yeah all over the place just following you online it's crazy how fun you travel too that i've seen you um beirut and things like that i think that was shortly after the last one maybe but right yeah i went well i went i went

through this period where i went to the middle east like i went i think i went three times in a year which was amazing you know to see a part of the world that I just never thought I would ever see, which was really cool. Three times in a year as well. It's weird how I went to China twice in a month. I know, I noticed you were there, and then I was like, wait, did he go back, or is he just sharing something that happened from the last time? Exactly, just randomly back and back with two completely different projects,

but in the same month. I didn't have to get a visa every time. I know, and then Japan. I was in Tokyo. That was a different project. That was beautiful. Yeah, I like Tokyo. So, well, let's talk about Tokyo for a bit

because what intrigued me about that was that it wasn't really a free-running kind of expedition. You were making a film with Jack Harries, right? Yeah, how do you know Jack? I know Jack. I've never met him in person, but I know I've followed him for quite a while because of my friend Casey Neistat.

Oh, yeah. He's made films with him, and Casey's a friend, and I was introduced to Jack Scapp through those guys, and so I've been following what they've been doing for quite a while, and I'm just,

I just love what they put out. You know, it's like, He's a beautiful person. He really is. I mean, the videos that they make are so extraordinary and exceptional and and it's a real positive message and the level of quality and what they're doing i just i have huge respect for those kids that guy's spirit yeah he's got

such a good energy like just carries it with him just no negativity like he really is i don't know the right upbringing or what i found the right journey he's just he's a cool dude i've not met finn so i mean they're twins i can't really speak for finn's behalf but i know finn is such a i've met i have met him once but i hung out with jack for a week in tokyo right how'd you uh how'd you hook up with them so it's through jamie oliver we met at a jamie oliver live event and he just remembered getting on with me, and they were doing a project where it was kind of like a head cam,

but it wasn't a GoPro. It was like a full quality head cam. And I think Finn suggested, why don't you use Tim? Because he wanted to direct. He didn't want to have to be the human tripod. He wanted to help direct and look on the monitor. So I don't know.

Amazingly, I just popped into their head, so I didn't even have to necessarily do, it wasn't for free running or anything. It was just for my kind of character and mannerisms moving around a city in like a playful way yeah he to get dim on board and i was more than happy to work with them right it was cool you had this like makeshift head cam that was manufactured out of a bicycle helmet with like uh look like a canon 5d or something like that. Jack made it himself. I can't remember. It was a Sony. A really new, fancy Sony. But he built it

himself in his shed. And so you went into the forest and you were hanging out with the orangutans or something like that. Snow monkeys. So that's in Nagano. So we were in Tokyo for a bit, but we got the bullet train out to Nagano and to Kyoto.

And basically we were trying to make it the most beautiful trip possible but we got the bullet train out to Nagano and to Kyoto. And we just got, basically, we're trying to make it the most beautiful trip possible from the eyes of the person. So one of the ideas was, yeah, let's go see the snow monkeys. And there's these snow monkeys that live in the mountains and they chill in the hot springs, but there's a hierarchy where some of them, families aren't allowed in the hot springs

and kind of the higher ones are, and they fight and squabble. But yeah, it's beautiful to behold. Wow. That's cool. So was it like just a travelogue video? Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it's not out yet, right? They're still cutting that. It's probably out by the time this podcast is out. Right, right, right. Yeah, what a cool thing. And for people that are listening who've never heard of Jack's Gap, I mean, you should check it out. They've got like three and a half million subscribers. it's got to be one of the biggest youtube channels on youtube they are undeservedly so yeah they should be right like for me i mean i noticed that you've

really kind of increased the um consistency uh with which you're making videos i mean i don't it's not quite like a daily vlog or anything like that but like you're putting out quite a bit more content since we last kind of a weekly, or every time I did a trip, I'd film a vlog on my iPhone and then just do a quick cut, yeah. Right, right, right. And for me, like, you know, I'm older than you.

Like maybe it's a generational thing. Like it's tough for me to like tap into like watching somebody's daily vlog. And there's some really popular ones out there. The guys that are friends with Jack Harry's, like Mr. Ben Brown and Louis Cole and guys like that who are doing really cool work. And they're traveling the world and giving people a glimpse of like this adventuresome lifestyle. And I'll pop in and watch one of those once in a while.

But I can't like there's no way I'm going to do it every day. Like I'm too busy. But like what Jack and Finn are doing, it's not an everyday thing. Like everything they put out is of like superior quality. and Finn are doing, it's not an everyday thing. Everything they put out is of superior quality. They really put their whole energy, their time, weeks, months into one project at a time to make it phenomenal, and it shows.

Cool. All right, so Japan. What were you doing in China? Some Guinness World Records. One thing was a Guinness World Record, and one was a previous Guinness World Record I did they rebuilt it and it was for a TV show

it was me versus some Chinese kid who was supposedly some fan of me and growing up watching my videos and did parkour

and so it was like a competition him versus me who would complete this course and there were three like celebrity guests

to guess whether he was going to win I was going to win or it was going to be a draw I think yeah what was crazy it was a draw in the end but it was one of those things where the producers um so it was like i was jumping up these scaffold bars that were kind of you know eight feet apart uh three feet up each one kind of thing or two feet up and um you had to jump 10 in a row and then turn around and jump back down and the and this kid he's a really springy kid my i've i'm not i don't train rails that much as much as i used to

and uh he he was such he's such a springy little bruce lee kid and he was great but then the producers asked me like can you uh fail on purpose to make it dramatic you have 90 seconds to complete and they asked him and he's oh no and they asked him, and he was like, oh, no. And they asked me, I was like, okay. You're going to throw the match. Yeah, it's Chinese TV. It's like, what does it matter? I'd rather please some people.

So I failed once on purpose, but you had 90 seconds to complete, so I failed once on purpose. The second time, I failed by accident. I got like eight bars up, four down, and I'm like shattered, you know, and managed to finally do it with five seconds to go. And it makes for dramatic TV, and the producers loved it, and there's a big like, oh, you know, this kid, this student becomes the master and all this.

Very cool. You're going to have to go back to China now for the big rematch. Yeah, yeah, I don't know how to do it. But it was whoever, if you just completed it, it counts as a complete. It wasn't based on time. It wasn't the fastest win. So it worked out as a draw, but it made him look better. That's cool.

Got it. And what are you doing here in LA? I was in Miami for a Spartan race, my first one. Oh, you did the cruise, right? I want to hear about that. Yeah, so we can talk about that. I had a bunch of friends on that cruise. Yeah, everybody said it was super fun.

So I've got into running recently, which we'll definitely talk about. Yeah, we're going can talk about that. I had a bunch of friends on that cruise. Yeah, everybody said it was super fun. So I've got into running recently, which we'll definitely talk about. Yeah, we're going to talk about that. And I was like, okay, so I want to do some obstacle course races. If I've got any kind of, as my running progresses, the obstacle should be the easy part for me. I was like, I've got to sign up to some Spartan races. That seems like the most common one. Never got around to it.

And then suddenly I got an email saying, do you want to come on this cruise?'s a spartan race i was like oh from miami i was like you would pay my flight they're like yep cool pay my flight pay for the cruise uh trained for it just been running really as my training went out there it was the most stunning island in the bahamas and my phone died in miami right before the cruise so I went out there with no phone uh and so I which was such a blessing really like you know you know it is like to not have a phone it's painful but it's painful you know I want to show this I want to you know having a good time but it was a blessing and I managed to finish I think there's 900 people did it and I finished 12th and apparently it was a stacked card like the people that the athletes I was in the elite group at the at the front i came 12th and that particular one

because it was a special one-off one they're paid there's like 50 grand's worth of prize money oh wow for the men 50 grand for the women up to 50th place got paid and i wow managed to make a little 450 dollars that's for 12 plays which is also and this that's my first one and if that's you know i'm like cool i've got to get in that's my new thing that's a huge i mean it's a huge growing thing here yeah like yeah you should check that out they actually there's a big one that they do right down the street here the one in malibu is like literally like a spot yeah it's a spartan race okay cool because yeah there's like just a couple months ago warrior dash battle frog there's it's a growing thing in america and I'm feeling like it's my running improves.

Yeah, very cool. Yeah, so I think, who was there? Dean Karnazes was on the cruise. Did you meet him? I watched his talk. Yeah, he gave a presentation. Ben Greenfield. Oh, and our buddy Travis, Travis Brewer.

Travis was there, yeah, with his friend Modern Tarzan. Uh-huh. They just put out that video. I put it on my Facebook the other day. I'm cruising around LA. Handstanding on the car. Handstanding on the car driving. I know.

It's pretty epic. Yeah, there's some real strong athletes. Cool. All right, so you've been all over the place. We're going to talk about running in a minute. But I'm interested in kind of the evolution of what you're doing. I mean, the last time that you came here, you know, you were talking kind of about your advocacy and your goals and your aspirations for the movement and your place in it. You were contemplating possibly moving to, you know, to LA.

Still a cause, right? And, you know, the kind of message that you want to put out there and part and parcel of that was sort of this idea of not really um being competitive in the parkour free running space and instead you know sort of embracing just the lifestyle and the joy of it and yeah and i think you've held true to that i mean you've done a couple things i know you did the there was the european team event that you did yeah Yeah, Ninja Warrior. Again, when I speak about competition, it's more I was against kind of the subjective side of things. When you're comparing two people's arts,

like it's hard, you can't compare two songs kind of thing. And whereas if it's you versus a course, I feel like that's, the only pure competition that there is is you versus yourself, is beating your yesterday. And against a course ninja i mean the course changes but every year i get to come back and see how i've adapted not only physically but mentally because obviously when there's a lot of uh film crew people around you you sit in a flight for 12 hours to get there and everything you're like it's in your head you know so it's it's a great

challenge to see how all those things improve and yeah yeah, I was captain of Team Europe in a one-off special on the American Ninja Warrior, and we won. We beat the Americans and we beat the Japanese. And you broke the record, right? The course record on stage one, I beat it by 10 seconds. So what does that bring into your life? Are there now people who want you to go and do this and that, and you have to make decisions about what you say no to

and what you say yes to? Things it's never things like that are never like life changes like the girl casey i think her life changed after ninja warrior i don't know if you saw that the first girl to complete ninja warrior course um the full thing and she blew up she went on the ellen show and all that and that made her massive and also made ninja warrior reach this whole another level of and they just started filming in venice beach last weekend was the start of the new season um yeah it's really it's really cool man i for me it's nice when i get to go home i just put the they sent me a dvd so i'll watch it with some friends and they don't realize like when i travel what i get up to you know i just hang out with them i don't really i just, I did this, I did that.

But they don't see, oh, it's like some big NBC TV show. And a lot of them have seen the Japanese Ninja Warrior. They never realize that they actually remake it in such a... They put money into it out here. They do it properly. It's the seventh season of Ninja Warrior going into, and it's half a million prize money if someone ever completes it. Right. But are you here in LA to do that or no?

No, I was coincidentally here. So I was in Miami. I was supposed to go to New Orleans with Jack. Yeah, he's there right now. Yeah, he's just left there to do the project. But the project changed. They didn't need me in the end. And I was more than happy because I've got the UK is doing the first season of Ninja Warrior films next week.

From start to finish, first round to the final is all within a week. So I was in LA, I was in Miami, flew to LA, and my friend has a Ninja Warrior gym in Oakland called Apex Movement in NorCal. And he said, come out here for a training camp. So I went there, there spent five six days he's got every single bit of equipment you could imagine for ninja warrior setup so if you're ever around the area interesting ninja warrior check that place out because he does a great job and

also while i was there he's a kind of modern day homeopathic chiropractor and they did some treatment on me where it's like really soft adjustments but it's supposed to unlock your muscles and i did that and there was some light therapy some really futuristic cool treatment i really responded to like a laser therapy or what kind of light therapy it was so they it's kind of like with reflexology with your foot there's a point connected to every single part in your body and with your hand i forget what they call it and in your ears the same there's 19 points in your body like that but so i hold one end of the this thing and it connects to the other and they poke a needle into each part of my fingers and every part represents

one part of my body and then a noise goes off and when the pitch drops down it means there's a disconnection with that part of my body there may be an issue there and so this woman did it and she she brought up a few issues that i i had that i didn't tell her any of my issues beforehand and like i had low adrenaline because i just ran my first marathon um my throat i saw my swollen lymph nodes uh sprained my neck like two weeks before these little things and then she gave me treatment for she takes a bit of my blood puts it in this copper coil and then it like i don't know what it does but there's something and it sounds so like yeah most people yeah super people like work there but i respond to it man i've came out you know i feel better stronger

for it like yeah yeah yeah that's cool i mean look man i'm i'm up for anything when it comes to that kind of stuff to explore all different kinds of these remedies it's yeah it's very i something in me is like this is what i wish people could understand this because i felt like i understood it and then when you're there with the machine and it's going on you're like yes but i uh to explain it sounds crazy i know i know like i'll match you and take you to the next level with something I did yesterday. I went to this woman who has – she's a homeopathic medicine doctor, and she has this treatment. I don't even know what it's called, but basically she hooks up like electrodes around my ankles and around my wrists and around my head. And there's some machine that, from what i understand like runs electrical current through my body yeah and it runs through some software program or some kind of like diagnostic it was

like that yeah and then she's looking at her computer screen and and she's getting these readouts on all kinds of stuff like you know yesterday was my second time i went a month ago and she was able to identify all these things that were going on with me that I knew were issues, but I didn't say anything to her. Exactly. Like, you know, oh, I have like a little bit of pain in my right knee, and I have a little bit of tightness in my lower back, but only on the left side. Like she was like, oh, this is what's going on. Yeah, she knew everything. She's like, you have adrenal fatigue.

You have this. You know, a whole bunch of stuff because I've been super stressed out and doing too many things and and then she gave me all these like you know herbal these herbs that i've been taking and and uh yeah like magnesium and i have like sleep stuff when i get stressed i don't sleep well and and it really it worked like my sleep has been better and i feel better and i went in yesterday and we're electrical beings before we're chemical beings and a lot of the doctors tried to treat us on a chemical level or stop symptoms. But that is electrical therapy. Do they have like copper coils or what?

It was, I don't know. No, it wasn't that. I mean, I know what you're talking about. I've seen that. This was a little bit different. But then, yeah, it was sort of like, okay, oh, this is going on. And then she's typing on her keyboard, which is impulsing this machine to send some different kind of current through this system. She's like, I'm going to work on that right now.

When I left, I felt amazing. It sounds insane. Julie went and did this a while ago, and I was like, what are you talking about? I'm such a skeptic, logical mind, but when you remain open and you go and do that, who are we to say? Who knows?

You know what I mean? I think it's, it's worth exploring all of these sorts of things. And, and, and, and, and,

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and, and, and, and, and, and, and, in it then you learn new things yeah well you're you can only learn when you when you're open you know if you're closed off and you think you know what's best and all of that like how are you going

to learn anything the more we know the more we realize we don't know that's a good place to to be that place of humility right absolutely so you know that's a good place to kind of segue a little bit into you know mindfulness and synchronicity which is like a video you just made about that and you saw that you know where you're where you're at like you know, mindfulness and synchronicity, which is like a video you just made about that and where you're at, like, you know, in your spiritual evolution right now. So synchronicities. So I was in Tokyo. I just signed up for the London marathon a few months ago. I've been training for that because I got into running. I was in Tokyo and it was the first time I'd ever seen a marathon that happened to be on there. And I went and watched that marathon.

Then I was in LA two weekends ago and there was the marathon was in LA and I was in Oakland last weekend and the marathon was in Oakland and it just followed me around yeah so I tried to sign up for the LA one and I just missed registration that would have been I wanted to just do a practice run because I'm aiming for the it's a big shout I started running in the very start of September at the Woodstock Fruit Festival and I want to do a three-hour marathon just to prove the speed of this diet. It can just shoot you through. You can progress anything you want to do.

And just the recovery on this diet is unbelievable. So I've just been finally running has given me something where it's very basic, but basic in a way that I can see the variable. It's measurable. It's measurable. It's much more measurable than parkour. Exactly. And I love statistics. I love mathematics and things like that. So I signed variable. It's measurable. It's measurable. It's much more measurable than parkour. Exactly. And I love statistics.

I love mathematics and things like that. So I signed up for my London marathon. I want to get a three-hour marathon just to prove to myself and to whoever gives a fuck that this diet is unbelievable. You can change your body so quickly. And so I wanted to sign up for the LA marathon because you can just register at any point.

And I just missed it. But there happened to be one in Van Nuys on the exact same day that was like four times cheaper and i just wanted to do the distance and i signed up for it and um turn up at 6 15 a.m pitch black 11 other people on the start line and just cracked out this marathon just at a slow pace in van nuys was going around the golf course four times and it was a you know you finish it there's moment on the last lap when you're just like i'm actually like running this distance that's like yeah was that your first time and that was my first time yeah i mean i couldn't run 5k uh in september i could barely run 5k and yeah progressed so much i fell in love with it that's great you want me to tell you that story yeah yeah yeah but i will say before we get into that is i don't know if it was the same day as that or maybe the day after but i i saw

jackson foster the other day you know jackson right probably from the woodstock fruit festival young kid who's like super into the movement and everything plantarion plantarotic yeah and he was like yeah i saw timothy at venice beach he's walking you know on the boardwalk with barefoot no shirts off drinking out of a coconut and i was like that's saw timothy at venice beach he's walking you know on the boardwalk with barefoot no shirts off drinking out of a coconut and i was like that's the real paleo yeah that's what it's like to live primally you know with your feet anchored on the ground drinking from nature and and i think it was right after you would run that i just wrote no it was the day after oh yeah so it was the day after so i just ran that and then was the day after. So I just ran that, and then I'd run a 13 kilometers,

what's that, like eight, nine miles, eight miles up Venice to Santa Monica and back and just did a workout on the bars, ran back, and I literally just left. I was standing at my friend's in Abbot Kinney. I left the house with just shorts, no shoes, no top, and my GPS watch, and I felt so so free and i'm running along the boardwalk past people they've got glasses on they've got caps headphones in thick sold shoes and i just

feel like you're trying you're fighting yourself you you're going to trying to find health but then you're still so disconnected from the source of everything you're hiding from the sun you're hiding from the ground and you're hiding from the noises around you of the ocean washing and it's like it's tough because they let people don't know better and it's i'm not trying to be judgmental but when you're running along and you've that freedom you know shirtless with the sun hitting you and everything and and just no shoes and you just feel powerful and that's the day after a marathon and that's my first one and then you see people just disconnected from our roots. Every year I learn more about true happiness.

And this common theme is returning to nature. Always, man. Always. For me, yeah, it's just that connection that you can make with the simplest things imaginable. And we're so used to just always you know programming our lives that how can we possibly go outside unless we have all these accoutrements and you know listen at least they're out you know walking around venice it's great no doors playing absolutely i'm not trying to say but it's just a weird one when you just see that i had three dollars in my pocket for a

coconut i knew where the stand was and when i'd finished my run got a coconut and i would he caught me i'd like coconut meat around my beard kind of thing, just trying to scrape it from the inside of my nails. It was nice. So when you were here, I think it was about a year when you were here last, you were flirting with the idea of getting into running, but you hadn't quite started it yet. So now here you are.

You've got a marathon under your belt. You're all about running and endurance training. In Japan, you're waking up early and you're hitting the streets and you're committed, man. So what is this aspect of your journey all about? I don't know. I just fell in love with it. That's all I think about every day now.

It's simplified my life even more. I just pack running shorts and train. It's the easiest thing to do wherever you are. Yeah, exactly. But I have a pack of trail shoes and some road shoes and then barefoot. I've run barefoot about a third of the time. But yeah, so in the beginning,

I was at, of this journey of the last six months to now, I was at Woodstock Fruit Festival, which was an unbelievable experience. That place, and I'm going to the Hawaii one in two weeks, which we'll talk about in a bit but that that place is special anyway so i'm eating fruit every day unlimited fruit watermelon and i was with fully raw christina and every day they'd like run around the lake and i thought you know what i'm not a runner but today i'm gonna just that's my mission i'm gonna

run around the lake however long it takes even if i have to walk i'm going to do it and it's just under 10k round and uh so one day i managed to do it i just i plodded around it was incredibly slow took about a bit over an hour i think but made it round and then felt oh wow amazing and then ached a bit the next day and then the day after that i thought i'm gonna do it again but run in the inverse direction and did that and felt good that was with no gps watch no tracking nothing and it was more just this was my challenge this is where i'm at get around the lake do it and i did it and then i was in new york the week after and i thought i'll run to central park i was standing at my friends and i had a completely free morning and i ran central park i was gonna i've never seen where john lennon's got shot at strawberry fields or whatever i don't know if he

got shot there but that's the place it's like right below the apartment building yeah okay so I ran to that and I thought why not run a little further and this was in Vibrams I think so I carried on running and ended up running around the park it was very slow

I didn't time it again no GPS watch and then ran home and I thought wow like all I had to do was just get out set the challenge of running I didn't time it again, no GPS watch. And then I ran home and I thought, wow, all I had to do was just get out, set the challenge of running around or to something and touching it and running home. And it worked. And then I got home and I got given a Nike GPS watch years ago

that I never used. And I thought, well, I'll play around with this thing. And that's when I got into the statistics of it and noticing your progressions. And I think my first 5k for time was like 26 minutes and um then and that took me i was i was going out and doing like two and a half k fast and then resting then two and a half k fast then i did my first 5k and did it kind of that and then i was like okay cool and then i discovered strava and that was a whole another chapter because the

segment thing on that, which is, I mean, there's definitely a part of me that's competitive, but it tries to be, I think with numbers, it's, as I say, when it's comparing two art forms, I don't feel that's natural.

But the segments on Strava is people create popular routes. I don't know if you know this, but for the viewers. Yeah. And I guess you bike ride and everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And if you you bike ride and everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And if you are the fastest time on that segment,

you get the CR on that, the course, or the KOM, King of the Mountain. KOM. Yeah. And that's like a friendly online leaderboard, but you're using a real life physical attribute to get there, which for me is nothing more important.

And there's community and accountability built into that, which makes it really fun. Yeah. I was a very early adopter on strava yeah you're not on it now right no well i'm on it but i haven't been using it and i'm about to get back on it which i can tell you about but but my experience was i got on really early on when it was just hardcores you know from at the beginning and it was super fun and it was kind of still kind of small and a little bit unknown and and you know and all the hills around here where i would ride you're able to get the k well you could get you could get close like i'm not going to say i'm fast enough to be able to do that

um and it was super fun to see because i knew the people that were you know getting the yeah and they would have challenges like um they did a santa monica mountains challenge where it was like who could get um the highest score for like every single climb around here. And you had a month to do it, you know, like everyone rallied to it and it was super cool. But then it got to the point where like a lot of my training is very aerobic zone, like keeping, I have to cap my heart rate or my wallets on the bike and like be controlled. And every time I hit an incline, like I'd be like, okay, remember your Watts aren't supposed to go over X and your heart rate's not supposed to go over 130. And then I'm like, fuck it.

But it's a segment. I know. I'm like, because I'm going to upload this to Strava, and people are going to see. I don't want them to think that I'm a wimp. And then I'm like, this is screwing up my training. And I had to wash my hands of it for a while, because that was when I was training for Ultraman in 2011.

I was like, I need to do what I'm supposed to do right now and then i just never went back but i'm going to get back on it just because it's fun and cool so it definitely does that it's certainly a battle after my marathon i literally ran every day last week i ran 70 miles and i ran the marathon on sunday and so from monday to sunday again i ran 70 miles i've reached almost a half marathon a day for eight days wow that, that's great. And this is within six months of running. And this is in, I was in Oakland running the trails. I signed up for my first trail race.

That was the weekend after the marathon. I came eighth out of about 170 people on a half marathon. I don't know if you know David Roche, but he is a guy who follows, he's like a Nike trail runner. He won it and I managed to come eighth in that. And that was a whole nother, that was the best run of my life. Like funnest run of my life i mean i'm sure you're around here i live in london where it's completely flat but yeah running around redwoods up and down and then around single tracks flying down a hill switch back down oh man that feeling was just something that's it's just took me now well it's analogous to probably what you experience when you're free

running you know it's sort of like that just very natural, functional movement of being free. It's one of those that there are people that probably grew up running, and they kind of got bored of that and maybe took to free running. I kind of grew up free running, and I'm like, I've done that. I want a new thing that's fun. I remember when I was eight years, no, even younger than that, six, seven, eight years old was i'd win sports day every day every year like the rip the fast race i was the fastest kid in my school and then i got into

soccer and then i got into breakdancing and parkour and my body type kind of changed from the breakdancing because i was maybe 15 to 18 i was doing a lot more upper body and i wasn't running as much um but that was you know the for me the spiritual journey is the return to innocence and the return to youth and how we felt the angelic light state when we're a kid and that's what i was born to i was a fast kid and maybe this is like i've gone full circle you're coming back coming back to what i was when i was a kid and again with the things that have come along with that is my libido is completely dropped like my i don't know if there's something with that but in a pure way in a positive way that it's like um i practice no fap i don't know if you know that one which is like no masturbation right um when did that come hold on a second yeah so when did that come in

that's like part of the whole spiritual thing you see the vegan thing you see other things and that's one that pops up okay like cold showers and no fap so it's because it's supposed to empty your lower two chakras when you have that release and i don't i'm still experimenting if it's like if it's done in like i don't know if sex empties your lower two chakras or if it's done in a pure way or if or if it's if it's just masturbation or what but anyway so i did didn't do that okay on and off for a bit when i had like competitions up and things. The Ninja Warrior, I did it for a month. I had cold showers every day. I did well.

It seemed to work in that. But you never know what's related to what. That's why it's a constant life journey. It's sort of symbolic of just being committed. Yeah, that's true. That's a good point. Anyway, since running, it's not even like there's been no desire. I just wake up, I want to run, I want to train, I want to hang with mates,

and I can hang with females as well. There's less like that need, that desire to have to impress a girl or need to get something back. I don't know. It's really helped just calm me. Don't you think part of that also is you know the more comfortable you are in your skin and kind of like self-assured about who you are and running can play a part in that i think it certainly has for me then that aspect of the ego becomes diminished i think that's definitely a massive factor of it and that and i think maybe the constant

uh bounce on your board on your every or adrenal fatigue adrenal fatigue yeah or that constant uh is like dissipates that energy that can get stored there because it can certainly control your brain when you give it time and you do that frequently it can take it can become where your mind kind of goes to when you stop that and then the mixture with it i don't know if it like yeah like the vibration massages that control out of you kind of thing or what but i feel a lot just yeah just like i don't need i feel like i'll never get married never have a girlfriend i love children but i don't know if i'll ever have a kid i just like not saying i'm complete i'm like celibate or like removing or anything but just in a way that i'm content with nothing we're not needing that soul warrior yeah well the uh the shakti is is is moved from the root chakra which is kind of a lower vibrating place to be spiritually

and elevating up hopefully more more towards the third eye yeah that's it i've got this little necklace this heart chakra necklace on uh-huh i like that man yeah yeah that's cool so uh i mean you're a big guy you're you're you're kind of a top heavy guy but you've definitely leaned out since the last time i saw you and obviously you know running i'm sure has played a part of that i mean how do you how do you kind of balance um you know what running is doing to your body with maintaining you know the upper body strength that you need to do what you do as a free runner i don't do anything in the way of maintaining i just train what i want to train every day and if my body changes it changes the biggest factor in my body size it has always been diet if i'm eating i eat veggie grill like three

times last week and that's you know it's quite heavy vegan food. It's not the best. And I stay size. I keep size. If I eat raw, I lose size. Even though I ran as much as I ran last week, which is more than I've ever run in my life. And so many calories, supposedly, like any app will tell you, you burnt this many calories.

Yet I'm no thinner for it because of what I ate. If I eat raw, then I lose weight. Leading up to the marathon, I'm going to the Woodstock Fruit Festival before. And I'm going to be raw for like two or three weeks. i i want to lose some size right and that'll be right after my uk ninja warrior so i'm i trained ninja warrior last week i didn't i'm not aiming to maintain but i was training for that competition um so i've definitely still got some size of a body then once that competition is done i think i will then do no upper body and just eat fruit but there's no

real aim other than i'm enjoying running i'm going to keep doing that if do no upper body and just eat fruit but there's no real aim other than I'm enjoying running I'm going to keep doing that if I lose upper body then so be it but I definitely look in the mirror and I just see way more of a balance and connection between my upper body and lower body there'd be times when I'd go out and try and train and I'd feel like it would take me so long to warm up my legs to get that engine started and since running i think it's strengthened some core connection between my upper body and i guess sitting in chairs doesn't help it kind of just shuts off your whole lower body stops the blood flow kind of thing and just since running yeah it's to strengthen something between me and i feel like one more fluid machine and this is just the

beginning you know i'm excited to just keep training and improving and noticing the progress yeah that's pretty cool so so you're not super dogmatic about being 80-10-10 all the time? No, I think that's definitely, I always say that's an optimum way. That's the way nature provides it. It doesn't provide a massive amount of fats, and it provides protein if you eat leafy greens. Yeah, because there's a pretty big gap between the difference between veggie grill and eating a raw diet.

The only thing in common that they have really is that there's no animal products in them but you know veggie grill for people who are listening who don't know is a is is a i wouldn't call it fast food but it is sort of convenient food that's that it that's vegan but it's sort of um you know it's not exactly all you can have super healthy options there but usually when i go there i'm eating like the buffalo wings like vegan mac and cheese it's like comfort comfort food for me that's a mixture of my own weakness

and at the same time I was out there with friends and none of my friends there were vegan but they were very open minded people so you take them there they came there with me and they're like they just think we eat rabbit food I always forget people think vegans just eat fruit and veg all day.

They don't realize that if you want to, you can eat exactly as you ate before, but without supporting the animal industry. And that's what Veggie Grill shows people. They go, oh, you can have this? You know, and then that helps them. It actually tastes pretty good. Like the chicken sandwich thing they have there is ridiculous. The chicken is unbelievable.

How good the chicken does taste like, yeah. But again, it is, as we always say, vegan diet is about the simplicity and it's not about creating these replicas. But for people transitioning or showing them, it's exciting that it exists. Yeah, for sure. I mean, for me, I don't need a meat analog.

I'm past that. It's like I don't desire it. I've kind of evolved away from that. But I think it's important to understand that for a lot of people, maybe even most people, you have to provide some kind of alternative that provides a safe kind of welcome landing ground for people to then embark on their own journey. So, for example, I just – this past week I put up my interview with Ethan Brown from Beyond Meat, and I know you went and just visited him at his headquarters. And I love what he's doing. You know, he's trying to innovate a new way of feeding the world that is not dependent upon industrialized animal agriculture. And he understands and implicitly recognizes that in order to do that in a mainstream way, you have to create a product that is equally delicious to a hamburger or a

chicken strip. And that's his goal. And I put that up and, and, you know, the response to that, to our conversation is overwhelming, overwhelmingly, you know, amazingly positive, but you have the occasional person who's like, you know, why would you even want to create something that tastes like that? Like, that's not what, you know, being vegan is about. And it's like, you have to, if you really want change on a mass level, you have to meet people where they're at and provide an alternative that is going to be accessible for them. And so when you eat that Beast Burger and you're like,

wow, that tastes a lot like a hamburger, for me that's a little bit weird because I haven't had anything like that in so long. But that's how you're going to get people to get comfortable with doing something different than they always have. Right, protein on the box. That's what they need to do. That's the biggest thing.

People are always still to this day. I've not wasted away in this. It's only been two, three years. But I don't ever eat a meal where I feel I better get my protein in. And yet, it's never an issue. Yeah, you're ripped. You're performing. know you're still you're you're excelling in two sports now yeah you know and that that makes you an amazing ambassador

for this message and i think that kind of brings up like the purpose of you know what it means to be an athlete um who's advocating you know the point of view that that carry. I mean, I know for me, I get up in front of groups of people all the time. I'm traveling all the time and I get up and I give these talks, but I also understand that the talk is going to resonate with people because of the things that I've done with my body

and that that has its place and it's important. So how do you like sort of, you know, kind of intuit that and carry the message yeah i'd never really for me i don't try and say look at me i'm a good athlete on this diet it's certainly a part of it and with the marathon coming up it may be something i want to prove to myself because as you said it's it's less variables it's very uh what's the word systematic or something you said it's like you can document the progress. Yeah.

You can track everything. You can track it. Um, I just try to appeal people cause I'm a human cause they're human as well. We're all humans. We all share this fit. Like for me being an athlete is secondary to trying to be peaceful, to try and,

you know, live in this kind of witness consciousness and try and take less from the earth. Cows exist and they just, they'll eat grass and, and they'll, you know, poop and try and take less from the earth cows exist and they just they'll eat grass and and they'll you know poop and and they're so they don't take much from the planet and we exist in everything we do in trainers you know i've got a house and a car that i fly on planes which give out pollution i'm you know we're all kind of we're the monsters in a way and it's like if i've said this in the last time if bees or ants die out then we're gone but if we die out there or they all thrive and it's trying to you know

appeal to people on that level that we should really try to be show the appreciation for what we've got and just animals don't deserve it you can do it for the environment you can do it for for your health but the most one of the most important is that absolute the victims of this whole thing are the animals and i think i need to go to a slaughterhouse or something because i'm a passionate vegan and i don't think i'm passionate enough when i think about what they go through and why it's not it's so pointless it's not i mean it is part of our history but it's absolutely going to change so i find it gets worse and worse how did you it? Because every few months I get to a new stage. I woke up at my friend's house, I was sleeping on the sofa,

and the other people staying there were cooking bacon. And I woke up to that smell, and I had to go stand outside on the porch and just breathe for a minute, because I just think, if only they knew. These are nice, lovely people. If only they knew what they're supporting. There's a pig flesh. What was yesterday was National Puppy Day, and everyone's posting Instagrams of dogs and puppies.

And it's like, what about pigs, you know? We think it's okay to eat fish because they're less intelligent or we don't rate them as highly intelligent. But pigs are more intelligent than dogs. But you don't apply it in that situation. You choose another reason. Yeah, I mean, speciesism is a really bizarre, illogical thing know it's like why is it like yeah we'll eat pigs but like if you the idea of eating a horse you know nobody you know i know certain parts of the world they do

that but like we would never do that here and it's bizarre how that works and i would say you know to your question of like how did it you know how is it for me i mean you know i got into it i got into this whole thing for selfish health reasons. That was my primary motivation. And on some level it was ego driven and, you know, it evolves. It's like it's, I'm in eight years of doing this now. And the way that I perceive it is far different than when it, when it began. And that's part of growing as a human.

You know, it's like, we're here to grow. We're here to evolve and not to stay stagnant. And I think for me to just remain in a place where all I do is talk about like. You know, it's like, we're here to grow, we're here to evolve and not to stay stagnant. And I think for me to just remain in a place where all I do is talk about like, you know, what kind of kale I'm eating, you know, I think that that would be a stunted, you know, evolution. So it's incumbent upon me as a steward of this message to learn more and to educate myself and to translate that to, you know, whoever's interested in listening in a way that hopefully is illuminating to them. So the idea of the impact of animal agriculture on the environment, like through Cowspiracy

and those guys who are friends, and I got involved in that movie because that got me super passionate about that aspect of it, which was something prior to seeing that movie I was not that aware of. Well, they say three quarters of us claim to be environmentalists in america or something like that in that and yet if none of us actually how many of us actually live right well i mean what

does it mean to be an environmentalist right like if you if you put your your diet coke can in the recycling bin does that make you an environmentalist like there's a spectrum of what that means i think um but i think if you're gonna if you're going to say that you're environmentally aware or environmentally conscious, then it's important to really educate yourself about these systems, these massive systems that are in place, systemic to our culture, that put food on our table. And if you can – the more you can understand what that entails, then the more informed you are to make a better, more conscious, sustainable solution for. You've got a fly landing on you. You're such a peace snake, man. There's flies climbing all over your face,

and I've noticed that you're not swatting it away. You can share some salt with him. I think he wants the salt from my sweat. That's amazing. Share it. Ecosystem to myself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, like right now

in California, we're in this insane water crisis, right? How many are they saying is animal agriculture based? Well, that's the thing. Like, they're saying we have one year of water left, and so everybody's panicked, like, don't take a shower and don't water your lawn, and it's so backwards and insane because all

the water is going towards animal agriculture, but no one's saying you know reduce your meat intake this is one way that we can collectively as a culture take a stand and try to preserve you know what little water because that's what addiction does to people that is what addiction does they avoid talking about the one thing that is the biggest thing it is the elephant in the room is the elephant in the room and watch cowspiracy if you're unsure because it shows then it shows a vegan diet takes 18 times less land to produce so you you know you're preserving plants you're preserving animals you're preserving water one one burger in that is like 660 gallons

i think yeah 660 gallons of water to produce one burger and and there's some like 200 for a pint of uh milk or something like that, you know? And it's like little things like that where you can just drink water instead. Yeah, so it's an evolution. And like the latest thing for me now is really taking a hard look at my consumer choices outside of food right so like the garments that i buy like i just had joshua do you know joshua catcher uh he's got a blog called discerning brute and he has a men's fashion oh yeah yeah and i think in new york yeah yeah he's cool you should hook up no i did i did a interview for their blog oh you did cool yeah yeah he's

he's great and and i had him on the podcast and he just kind of laid out like how similar the garment industry is to the food industry when it comes to how we harvest animals to create garments to wear on our back, you know, and how buy a wool sweater and wouldn't think about it. Like, oh, these animals are just getting a haircut. It's no big deal. And then when you actually look and see the process of what actually goes on to do that, like it makes me think twice about it. Is that something I really want to support? How can I better align my actions with my values? It is absolutely the next step. And part of veganism, they say, is, you know, it's the whole shoot, not buying leather.

And I don't buy leather products and things like that i just think the one that's right in front of us is that what's on the plate three times three times a day but yeah when you get to the level and we've been doing it for several years then you start to look to the next thing the next thing but my biggest question was to you was about how do you deal with other people around you eating meat because that's what i'm saying it's grown for me because we hang out you obviously everyone's you spend time with lovely nice people we believe i mean we all believe we're nice and there's always things that are unmindful that we do but to their kids are lovely to their friends and family and yet their support you know they're putting this flesh in their mouth and it's just something that's just grown and grown and they find it harder and harder but it's like

but i you know i went on a ski trip with Jamie Oliver and I'm around them and I'm the only vegan vegetarian there. And it's fine. There's certain scenarios. It's weird. Maybe it comes down to egoism. But when I accept it and be like, that's what people do. That's the age we live in.

But then there's other moments when I'm with people and I get frustrated that they just don't see it. They just, you know. I mean, I think you have to, you know, take the approach. I mean, first of all, I mean, to answer your question, like I'm a homebody. Like I eat all my meals at home. That's what I was going to say.

And I hang out with like my friends. So I'm not around it that much. It's not like in my face all the time. Like if I was a single guy hanging out with my buddies and doing whatever, I probably would be around it more. You know, and I think that the approach, but it's not that it's not around me, like it is, of course, is to, the only approach I think is to stand in the light and non-judgment. You're right.

And just mind your own house. You know what I mean? Like mind your own house. And if someone's interested, they can come to you you but if you get into that place if you fall into that trap of getting preachy and judgmental you're actually hurting the cause that you're trying to advance I think it appears preachy and judgmental and maybe a lot of times it is but sometimes it's just

you're trying to educate because once I learned better once I knew better I changed man and I expect that from I expect other people once I knew better, I changed, man. And I expect that from, I expect other people, once they realize, if they really knew what they were doing, they wouldn't do it. But how do you respond to unsolicited advice about how you should live your life? You're right. You know what I mean?

And food is very emotionally charged. Like what if somebody said, Tim, what are you doing with your life, man? You need to get a job, man. Like don't you understand? Like you're blowing it. Like are you going to? You bite back, don't you? It makes you want to get a job man like what do you know like don't you understand like you're blowing it and you know like are you gonna you bite back don't you it makes you want to buy you get defensive yeah you know don't tell me how to live my life so it's just because it affects others and it's like what's that quote about it's one it's one thing to stand by you know if you stand by and let evil be done to others and you just it's just as bad i can't remember there's a

terrible version of that quote but it's kind of like just sort of remaining silent remaining silent complicit in the yeah exactly and i feel and i went to dinner the cafe gratitude the day with john joseph ah yeah yeah he's a good friend of mine yeah i wrote the forward to that did you yeah yeah so i like that guy i like the way he. He's great. And he doesn't mince words. Exactly. And he has... And Gary Yourofsky, I love that. They're my kind of people. They're very unequivocal, right? And that's the way that you communicate as well.

That's how I'm starting to be. You're very clear and you're very like, this is what I see and this is what I believe. I think that my evolution is probably pushing me more in that direction, but I'm also very aware of – I'm always thinking like what's the best way to communicate the message to a mainstream audience? And your audience isn't entirely vegan. No, no. Listen, I would say probably 70% of people, maybe even 90% of the people that listen to this podcast are not plant-based.

They're not vegans, right? And they tune in for various reasons or whatever. And, and, you know, that's not the only thing that I talk about. I talk about all different kinds of life and spirituality. And as you know, it's like, you know, you do the same thing. Like there's more to life than the food we're eating, right? That's, that's an important starting place and a way that we can, you know, begin the process of starting place and a way that we can begin the process of evolving and growing, but it's certainly not the be all end all. But what is an effective way to communicate to make this lifestyle attractive and aspirational for people as opposed to off-putting? Yeah, maybe I'll calm down or maybe I'll get more involved. I think there's a place for everybody.

There's a place for John Joseph. John Joseph is not everybody's cup of tea. You know what I mean? There's people that they're not down with his way of talking, but there's a whole other demographic of the population. He's the only guy they're going to hear. You know what I mean? And so I think that Gary Yourofsky's voice is important and Jamie Oliver's voice is super

important too. And I think it's interesting that he's your friend and he is on some level supportive to the vegan movement, but he's also such a cultural icon that he serves a different demographic as well. And his way of communicating a healthy message to the vegan movement, but he's also such a cultural icon that he serves a different demographic as well. And his way of communicating a healthy message to the population is different from yours, right? And so how do you navigate that being friends with him? You know, like that, when I put it out on Facebook, like, hey, do you have questions? Like some people are like, what's the deal with Jimmy Oliver? Are you trying to get him to be vegan? And we talked about this a little bit last time, like how you have a lot of respect for what he does,

even though his message is not really the message. It's not entirely consistent with what you're saying. I mean, he's got a bigger audience, more important message than any of us. He is, yeah, as I said it before, I'll say it again, he's one of the most loveliest people I've ever met, one of the most spiritual people down to earth that I've ever met

without ever trying to be spiritual looking into that realm he just lives very mindfully but then he's got an empire built on the meat industry he's this week is actually he's doing meat free week it's growing because he always does meat free mondays he says 30 of the content they put out is a vegan or vegetarian and i've just i've seen in the last few months that's gone up and up and up and this week he's promoted meat free week so it's absolutely a growing trend with him. I think it's definitely something that sits on his head and he thinks about it. And I did an interview with him that's on my YouTube.

I don't know if you saw that. I did, on the ski lift. On the ski lift. And he says plant-based, you know, it's the future. It's plant-based. He even said that, words from his mouth. Right. And he's just all about mindful eating and cutting down on the meat.

And I just think it's only a matter of time once people do that to realizing that we don't need meat to kill animals to survive. Right. And I love that. I'm glad that you were able to capture him there. And what was interesting about that is it corresponded to a period in time in which he was taking a lot of heat because he had recently, I don't know the specifics of it, but he had recently sat down with Bill Gates and Bill Gates is kind of under fire for being, I don't know if you could call it, it's not fair to say he's in bed with Monsanto, but he's very involved in kind of the advent of GMOs. And that's something I talked to Ethan Brown about because Bill Gates is an investor in Beyond Meat. And so the vegan community or certain aspects of the health community were kind of like,

yeah, the organic community is ganging up on him saying, how could you possibly do this? And this is something that we see kind of endemic across all sort of circles of the wellness Venn diagram, and particularly even within the vegan movement, there are these like factions, you know. It's like you go to Woodstock Fruit Festival. Well, that's a pit of drama right now. There's a lot of people, you know, bickering and fighting and a lot of strong personalities that are at odds with each other. trying to kind of navigate that and kind of stay above the fray and still put out a positive message and not get caught in that trap of being overly argumentative because I think when you do that you lose you lose the confidence and the trust of the the larger population at whole that's

looking to you for a little bit of guidance yeah I think what he does as he says in that interview is conversation you don't get changed without conversation and it's better that he's talking to bill gates they're not than being opposed saying i don't like what you're doing it's okay because if anyone's going to help bill gates understand organic it's jamie and he's you know he's promoted it for years and whether i mean that's not what he's trying to do but it's better that he talks to these people that he as he says that he talks to mcdonald's that he talks to to whoever like you he talks to whoever. We need change. And it's easy for us, and I'm as guilty as anyone, we try and conflict and negate these other rivals or enemies

or things we don't like, like McDonald's and that. But at the end of the day, the only way is that they exist. We have to help them grow and help them see the light. And you're absolutely right when you say that. Yeah, I mean, it's that idea of you can you can kind of adopt the john joseph punk diy approach which is like you know blow the system up or uh you can choose to try to disrupt the system from within right and like mcdonald's is not going away so if ethan brown can get a beyond meat burger on the mcdon McDonald's menu is that a bad

thing or is that a win you know what I mean exactly so it's a win and if Jamie Oliver can influence you know the menu or the policies or whatever at the highest level then I think that's how we you know begin to catalyze change yeah because you know we know the war on drugs isn't working the war on anything doesn't work it's about working with it and changing it and that's just another example isn't it yeah so uh so where are you taking all this like what's what's where's this evolution Timothy Sheaf mission headed back to nature I don't know sometimes you just I'm going to Hawaii next month for the first time and I think that could be quite an interesting experience for me.

That's definitely someone that's been on my list for years to go. Everything's just leading me back to nature. I'm more barefoot than ever. Trying to go see Evan Rock on the big island and never come back. Exactly. There's a thought that keeps popping into my head. Yeah, I've got a little bit of money saved. What does it cost to just survive off the land out there?

What do you know? But then I'm still excited with my running. So I'm like, okay, maybe I do need to come to LA, but just somewhere where I can get into this OCR world, the obstacle course racing. Because I'm enjoying my running so much. That's progressing fast. And if I can do the obstacles, that's the easy part for me.

There's a whole other realm. It's a chapter. There's no pressure. Parkour the easy part for me there's a whole nother realm it's a chapter there's no pressure parkour i've done everything there's kind of to do within that i'm taking a step back i want to train it but i don't want to have to film every day that i'm going out or have that pressure of people having expectations if i release a video what moves they want to see me doing or something i want to i want a new chapter i want to be a student again i want to be you know enter a realm where people have no expectations on me and I can just surprise people and be an underdog or something. I'd like to do that.

Well, the Spartan race thing, all this obstacle course racing that's blown up, I mean, it's the right place, right time for you. It is, yeah. You've got to get some speed work in, maybe less marathon running and more track workouts. After my marathon, yeah. I can see you completely mastering this. After my marathon, yeah. I can see you completely mastering this. After my marathon, my aim is to get my mile down.

So I'm just going to do track workout and work on a fast mile. Yeah, I mean, the only difference between me and them athletes is in the race I came, I was like 31 minutes and first place was 28 or something like that, three minutes behind. The only difference is the running. They can run 15, 16-minute 5Ks. Mine's at 19 right now. So I'm just going to keep working on that. My cousin is a phenomenal runner.

He's run a 14, 25Ks, run a sub-30, 10K. And that's in my genes. I speak to him every day. It's like I just want to run every day. I work on that and then come to the OCR world, and there's no vegans represented in this world. Well, there's a few. I met one out there, but it would be phenomenal to have, you know,

show these people, you know, Spartan races. You're supposed to be Spartans. Wasn't it like the gladiators were vegan back in the day? Yeah, I think so. I don't know whether that's because they were basically slave labor and that's all they fed them i don't know if it was by choice yeah but yeah i have read that yeah and just spartans and we call ourselves warriors and things like that and i just think you know warriors stand up for the innocent the real heroes are the ones that

are out there defending the innocent the voiceless whatever when you know when i'm on that i was on a cruise ship and everyone just pounding down big buffet as much as you want meat just people pounding the meat pounding the meat and i'm there just getting massive plates of fruit i'm thinking if you know if only they knew what's going on if there was a slaughterhouse on this boat and you'd have to go up and line up and stand outside and watch it and then get the food people aren't going to be eating the same way and then you know i mean they're phenomenal athletes i'm not going to say that's the one thing for me i'm not going to say vegans are better athletes i'm just saying you can you can be the same that's not that's not the factor i don't think the diet is is the biggest fact it's a factor but it's not the

biggest factor it's your mindset your attitude towards training, towards the event. But yeah, that's it for me. I'm going to head that direction. Yeah, I mean, I think that my impression of that OCR world is that, much like CrossFit, there's a really strong corollary with the paleo world and the kind of primal aspect of diet and all of that. world and the kind of you know primal aspect of diet and all of that like somehow they figured out some way of like you know vertically integrating all of this into like one thing that's become this like really powerful movement and i think a strong you know vegan voice in that with that's somebody who's performing at a high level in that world would be a powerful thing

yeah so we'll see we'll see i mean in six months I could be doing something else. I'm enjoying rock climbing as well right now. Oh, yeah. I think if I've learned anything about life, it's that you follow your emotions. Sometimes you feel lazy or like you don't want to do something that you expected to do or that you should be doing something. It's not because you're lazy.

It's because you've got no passion in it. I feel like so switched on and so powerful and willing to learn when i'm passionate about something but when i'm not i just have no desire to do it and this is just one thing where i found such passion in it and i'm going to chase that and chase that until i until you know then i get face to face with it and i look in another direction i see something else that i want and it will lead me down a path like it's just something that I've learned is that follow your passion and it doesn't matter if the end of that rainbow might not be winning any any OCRs it might just be I might suddenly end up on some other journey some other goal some expedition to the north pole so you

never know where you're going to end up but then I'll just keep following that passion I love it man yeah are you still doing stuff with YouTube? Not at the moment. That contract, we only did a year on that. So I started to do my own vlogs but then since my phone died on the cruise and I've gone around, I've not filmed anything since that

and I'm just enjoying it. It's tough when you're trying to be present and in the moment and enjoy the things you're doing and then you think, oh, maybe my audience, because I get a good response on those vlogs people they like to see them um but then it kills me and it stops me being in the moment and enjoying the food i'm enjoying and things so i've stopped doing that i'll try and do like the synchronicity video that i did

the interview with jamie oliver i'll try and just do the the one-off like flowing talking ideas or interviews and less of the vlogs and just trying to enjoy what I'm doing. Yeah. There's always that, um, that balance, right? When you're kind of trying to live your life transparently because you know, people are interested and you want to share that and you feel like you have something to say, um, versus just letting go of that and, and being, cause it's like they're at odds with each other. Like're stopping, you're taking yourself out of the moment to talk about being in the moment. So it's inherently contradictory.

It's a constant struggle, isn't it? So I don't know, part of me, you'd like to just disappear from everything. Everyone has that thought, just delete everything and just see what life gives you. But then you think that's my current career is with Instagram. And I get a lot of offers for like free stuff or little paid things to Instagram or share or promote this and that.

And I just can't do it, man. I had a backpack sponsor that I lost because I was contracted to two Instagrams a month. I did one in about two years because you can't just put a backpack in a photo. And it's like, that's not my current stream of photos. And I tried to keep that integrity. And so it's hard to have integrity at that kind of level and then promote so i have to like something like strava i love it i can talk about it i can promote it and there's a

genuine appreciation for that and then fruit i can promote it but there's no there's no money or something like that yeah you know and but it's pure it's tough to find that relationship with a company that's like, and I've not got anything with Strava, but I'd love to just if anyone's listening. Yeah, actually, there are some Strava people that listen to the podcast. I'll share that with you afterwards. But yeah, I hear you. I get approached similarly.

And I kind of look at it like, well, these brands, they just, most of them, it's a super cheap way for them to get exposure. And a lot of people like to feel like they're supported by a company. So they'll just do it willingly. And it's just not worth it to me. You know, it's like, what's more valuable,

you know, like I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want the content that I'm being, that I'm putting out being dictated by, you know, an external force. And it shows,

and then your audience will respond to that and your, your audience would change to one that's response to that. But I think that my audience really, they wouldn't. And it's not that doing nothing for my audience. It truly, like my audience is just a reflection of my own inner conscience, I guess.

And it's like the people that respond to you are the ones when you're most open that, and then you get, you get people that support you. And then you get people that actually question, like someone slated me for flying on planes the other day and it's a good question you know like you promote vegan mindfulness all this stuff but then you're still supporting something and traveling but yeah i mean how do you yeah how do you how do you navigate

like that kind of when you get that kind of feedback i mean i didn't respond but it's you know it makes the question in your head because you want to react, you want a smart answer. But the truth is, he's got a valid point. I claim this, I drive a car and it hits flies when I'm driving on the freeway. Where's the line? But then the only answer I come up with in my head, you find a validation for anything if you look hard enough. But it's the age we live.

You have to kind of live in the age that you live in. This is the times now. We have cars. We have planes. What's the biggest issue? And then focus my energy on that. And I just think that it is eating animals for food. Yeah, I mean, I think it's how can you live more sustainably?

How can you live with an absolute zero in you know impact whatsoever i mean if you pay taxes you're that money's going to support things you probably you know supporting the meat industry right like it's crazy you know this is like you said this is the world that we live in so how can we you know live better and put out a healthier message and and and you know with implicitly accepting that none of us is perfect yeah can i just switch it up real quick yeah you know marianne williamson yes i went to one of her talks the other day what a phenomenal woman yeah she's incredible well when she was running for congress last year i went to a couple of her talks yeah she's around malibu and she's she's

she's a powerful chick she's spot on like all her talks and i need to read her course in miracles i think it's one of her books but i was super impressed with it is she plant-based i think i heard she's plant-based i'm not sure about it doesn't matter she's got a positive message like a massively positive where did you hear her talk it was in santa monica like two she'd every monday she does a talk i think and you go along and it was what was the theme of the one you heard? About when you're about to go to meet someone or a meeting. It's about having no agenda for any relationships, just always being present. And about when you're going to meet people,

like sending a positive energy towards them, say, I hope they're in a loving state or just kind of sending love to people before you go into those scenarios because you create the path before you're there. You're kind of on it. Yeah, but I cannot sum it up in the way she does because she's got some amazing quotes hasn't she if you don't know she's just google mary ann williamson and the word quotes and just i love

doing that there's some people sometimes just skimming through some quotes you can subscribe to her newsletter too and you get this cool like email once in a while with some powerful stuff in it she's a really a good channel kind of thing yeah it was interesting you know when she was pursuing government you know i'm like how does that work you know like she's this sort of spiritual leader taking money out of politics it's a big message yeah and i went to a couple of her kind of fundraiser campaign events and it was like wow you know if she actually like the idea that she could potentially like win a seat was like so radical, you know, and she had support from a lot of people. Ultimately she didn't win,

but you know, her idea of, it goes back to that thing of like disrupting from within, right? It's a matter of time. I think before someone like her, Russell Brand, like breaks through and,

and enough people start to hear the message because I see so much truth in that message. And it's just, once it breaks through a few more people, once a few more people are more open-minded and see it as any amount of time before someone like her, you know, taking money out of politics, everyone agrees with that message.

But then if they don't agree with something else that they say, they just try to play the safe road and support someone that's already, you know, Republican or I don't know what it is. Yeah, well, I think that the internet age is demanding that kind of, that level of transparency and accountability that's kind of unprecedented, and that really shakes the system up. Young people, they demand to know what's going on, whether it's with the corporation that's providing the product that they're buying or their government or what have you, and this is new. You know what I mean?

have you and this is new you know what i mean it used to be you know whether you're a corporate entity or you know a government organization you could kind of operate with impunity but now when you have edward snowden's and you have russell brands and people like that there's a expectation that that that doesn't fly anymore yeah bring jfk back yeah here's the last one we had right there yeah yeah i mean not yeah not perfect but i think you know young people are like they're not going to tolerate it you know it'll just be interesting to see how it evolves yeah i think we'll see in our lifetime i think it's the next 10-15 years you'll get people like marion williams i'd love a matriarchal society um hillary clinton is she running bill clinton's vegan right he's like not anymore is he not okay

no i think he's uh he's moved a little bit in a different direction has he but he was i heard he was promoting it quite a lot man he was yeah he was he was uh i mean i think he's still predominantly yeah that way but that's sort of like that's it they have an understanding of it so if someone like her was in power i think at least it'd be it they've overcome the addiction to a certain level where it's like they understand if they see kind of cowspiracy or something i just don't get why something like that when we see the environmental impacts i don't know i could go on about it for days but it's any amount of time anyway well cowspiracy really hasn't most people haven't seen it yet because it really hasn't gotten mainstream distribution yet and that's changing

there's some things developing with that movie right now, and my hope is that a lot of people are going to be seeing it pretty soon. So that's exciting, and we need more stuff like that. Those guys are Kip and Keegan, the guys that make House of Piercy. They're already halfway done with their next movie. Are they really? This one's going to be more health-oriented, and I've got to hook you up with those guys. San Francisco, right?

Yeah, they're in the Bay Area. They're going to be back down here and are you coming back to the states when are you going back so i'm going back in like two or three days and i'm coming back uh for the hawaii fruit festival right in april and i'm staying in la for a few days before and after all right cool yeah yeah yeah those guys should interview you man have you had any communication with them no i'll i'll i'll I like the people they interview. They get some cool people. The guy from Beyond Eggs. Josh Tetrick.

I like the way he talks. He's cool as well. Very cool. What they're doing there is amazing. I went and visited their facility up in San Francisco. It's pretty cool. It's like one big room where there's just a big table where all the young people are on laptops doing whatever they're doing and then a bunch of long stainless steel tables where you have the scientists

who are like looking through microscopes and playing with plant proteins and then you have chefs that are making like omelets right next to them and taste testing everything and it's like all happening in just one big room like a startup you know like a tech startup it's amazing yeah they do a great job and it's just when i visited the beyond meat hq and it's kind of seems like a smaller version of that where there's just scientists and yeah yeah yeah yeah you have like these science genius guys and then you have the extruder thing that actually makes the burgers you know you see that big like oh that's true yeah yeah that was cool. It was pretty cool. Well, I want to know, we should probably do a couple questions from some of the people that reached out on Twitter and Facebook.

And one of the ones that I thought would be a good thing to talk about is what your kind of morning routine is. You know, I know that like yoga and meditation have now become more important to you and running, et cetera. so like what does it look like when you wake up like the first hour of your day yeah uh drink a lot of water some of those lemon and himalayan pink salt water in that uh i try and get the running early if i can it's nice when you get you run out of the way and then the rest of the day you're kind of just vibing or yoga um yeah i try and stretch in the morning what's it it's so inconsistent i travel so much and you can have such a good routine go away for two weeks come back and you forget where you were yeah um but yeah drink water eat raw as much as i can in the morning maybe you have half a watermelon or a couple mangoes and fruit's so good man i just it's unbelievable you know when you've just done yoga or something and you have a coconut water and some watermelon or a couple of mangoes and fruits. So good, man. I just, it's unbelievable. You know,

when you just done yoga or something and you have a coconut water and some watermelons and you're like, you're in such a clear state of mind and that's what you want to eat. That's how, you know, it's kind of just the most natural thing. Yeah. Do that run.

There's no, there's no routine. I'm sorry. I can't give a clear answer on that. No, like, uh, like I do this meditation program or like a journal or I, you know like i i have this quiet like sort of um habit that i like to

do not it's no there's nothing at the moment because there's um i travel i travel and it just i lose my routine as long as i run right almost every day that's kind of the one pin in my day the coolest thing about running when you're traveling is when you go to a new city and you wake up early in the morning and then just go out and run and explore. You don't know where you're going. I just let it show me where it wants to take me. That's the best way to see a new place. It's been an amazing thing having running and being able to take that with me traveling.

An extra thing you do, yeah. I've got one of the most diverse things on strava i think for travel i've got cr i've got like cr koms all over the world yeah i got one in um if anyone wants to try and beat it runyon canyon it's like a 500 meter downhill section oh really i just i run i do run in all the time i usually do it wednesday afternoons yeah i have a standing thing that i do there in that area at night but that's a great, I do hill repeats all the way from the bottom so there's one called Devil's Stairs or something but I've got the top of that segment

I've got 400 people on the way down so someone take that from me oh that's pretty cool, I know exactly what you're talking about because all those steps going down there's big wooden planks and they're about a couple meters apart every one well I go down that but i go down slow okay but i'm focusing on on on doing the up fast up yeah okay fair enough yeah

fast up but that's a great place to go and people watch too yeah yeah i don't know when what time of day you did it but you know you go like middle of the afternoon yeah there's a lot of people out there yeah um cool so that's one thing what books are you reading right now that you're into um so You go like middle of the afternoon, there's a lot of people out there. Cool, so that's one thing. What books are you reading right now that you're into? So I want to get that Marianne Williamson book. I'm reading a lot of running books. And someone actually pointed this out to me.

I was reading a lot of female energy books, like spiritual ones. There's one called about our breath. What was it called? It's about our relationship with breath and how the first trauma in our life is the moment we're born and we take our own first breath because before that, everything's provided for us.

We're in the womb and we don't have to do anything. Then the moment we come out and we take our first breath is like it causes a trauma that lasts throughout a whole lifetime and that we have to try and rebuild this relationship with our breath.

It's called, it was about rebirthing, which is a practice i'd never heard of before i don't really know how big that still exists but i think yoga and all these things kind of are even running is building your relationship to breath breath back and building that comfort you're not scared to be out of breath because you know that everything's going to be all right and that was very interesting but again as someone pointed out it's very female energy and so i went back and i read i read born to run um i just read scott jurek's eat and run which was so inspiring and these are like kind of more in alignment i read them so fast because of how i'm just finished in one called running by feel and then i want to read your um finding ultra and brendan brazer's book as well

drive yeah so those are like two of my next ones on my running um right right endurance schedule because i want to start doing ultra marathons and everything yeah yeah it's the evolution man i don't know if it's the vegan diet or the spiritual journey i don't know what's led me there but what's going to happen is you're going to go to Hawaii for the fruit festival and you're going to, you're going to connect with Michael Arnstein and then you're going to be all a lot of questions for that. Yeah. He just won the hurt 100. He was basically retired. He said he didn't want to do anymore. No, he didn't. He's like, I retired. I'm not really training. I'm just trying to enjoy

my kids. And then like on a whim, he, he ran the hurt 100, which is one of the most challenging ultra endurance. I saw his video from a few years ago and he said he'd never do it again. And he said he retired and he just won it now. Yeah. And he just won it. I don't, I mean,

I think he's doing a tiny fraction of the training that he was when, you know, he was running 60 mile days. He said he run 20 miles to work, 20 miles on lunch and 20 miles home some days. And in Hawaii and before, yeah. And before when he was living in New York.

And now he's barely training. Right. Maybe that's the happiness. Maybe that's the fruit. Maybe that's the sunshine. Yeah, before when he was living in New York. And now he's barely training. Right. Maybe that's the happiness. Maybe that's the fruit. Maybe that's the sunshine. Yeah, I don't know. It's interesting. It's very interesting.

I've got a lot of questions, even more questions for him now. That'll be cool, man. What else? Have you read Autobiography of a Yogi? No, but that's popped up a few times. I've read it like four times. You have to read that. What's the guy's name? We have a whole library times. I've read it like four times. You have to read that. What's the guy's name?

We have a whole library upstairs. I'll go show you. Julie is like the master of the spiritual library. I'm well up for a spiritual book right now. I've read a lot of running books. I mixed it up for a bit. I probably said them last time. I don't know if we talked about books,

but Celestine Prophecy is one of the biggest books. I read Eckhart Tolle, A New Earth, The Dead Sea Scrolls, the Essene Gospel of Peace or the Dead Sea Scrolls. I always say that's the most important book I ever read and I want to reread that. It's only 60 odd pages, but just some really powerful words,

supposedly from Jesus, removed from the Bible by priests because it talks on raw foodism, fasting, only eating twice a day um fasting on sunday yeah fasting on sundays um talks about enemas in that even talks about earthing like standing barefoot in dirt and all these different things that now are coming up from different sources he spoke about it back then but they removed it because it wasn't in alignment with what the a lot of people say the bible is things they left in were to do with making money for the church kind of thing i'm not saying that i love religions i find them fascinating but i just think that you've got to find your own relationship with god through yourself you know through your conscience

through through things and not listen to a book to guide you. That's what it is, a guide, but it's not the definitive thing. It's understanding your own emotions and feelings about things and conscience and following that. I love it, man. Yeah. That's cool. I think that's a good place to end it, but I got one more question for you. Because I think that this is something that people are interested in,

that they can take away from this, which is a lot of people say, oh, I'm interested in eating healthy, but I'm traveling. I'm on the road all the time. I just can't do it. And you're traveling like crazy. And it seems to me that your approach to food and diet is not like, oh, I have breakfast, lunch, and dinner. You're kind of just grazing throughout the day. And that's the direction that I've moved into. It's less about like mealtime. And because I have kids and family, like, you know, the dinner is a big thing and we have ceremony around that, but kind of left to my own devices. I don't really think about meals. I'm just kind of like trying to keep my energy high throughout the day by just eating little stuff. And so how do you like navigate travel and airports and all of that where

you know you're kind of in these um in these uh you know nutritional deserts so it's unbelievable isn't it when you walk through airports especially in america and you see just an amount of different but equally bad fast food and and all them um i eat a lot when i travel i think you're into survival mode kind of thing where you just feel like hungry all the time. So I'll either just buy like bags of like vegan bars or some vegan protein. But I've got these protein bars, not for the protein,

but because I was in Whole Foods and the guy, you know, they give the samples out in Whole Foods and you try them to not be a vegan thing. So I decided to support that bottle as them. So i've been traveling with loads of them in my bag recently i'll just snack whenever but i just buy um loads of food have it in my bag all the time and i'll just snack throughout the day if i see a shop with like a fruit pot i'll buy a fruit pot and just eat that yeah i never try and yeah meal times have completely gone out the window dinner dinner kind of lasts and i'll try and plan that

especially when i'm in la there's so many good restaurants have right a few friends that i'll go to dinner with but throughout the day there is no meal plan just eat fruit anytime i want and then eat some snacks and like flapjack type bars or oaty things or whatever absolutely yeah traveling and i'm glad you said that you're on that journey yeah grazing in nature animals just graze they don't have meal times do they and if you can some days i'll go throughout the whole morning and most afternoon without eating because sometimes i only if i eat in the morning then i'll be hungry throughout the day and i'll graze throughout the day but i feel like it's a trigger once you eat then you start to feel hungry but if you don't eat you're okay

not eating i've noticed that that i eat less than i used to when you travel no just in general okay you know like i eat less especially like the first half of the day yeah like i just you know i don't know my energy's pretty good i'll go out and i'll go running and sometimes i have to remind myself to eat afterwards like i don't feel hungry and i just feel you know my energy's good and i think the part of that is just yeah breath that's the next evolution right yeah yeah but i think as you become you know like the training i'm doing isn't super intense it's pretty much aerobic zone stuff so if you're in a good state and you're happy i don't think you need to eat

as much i think often these desires of food come with some kind of dissatisfaction or addiction. I've definitely got an addiction to food, but I've turned that into a positive and it's helped me promote a positive lifestyle being vegan. Because if I was not asked about food either way, then maybe I wouldn't be so passionate about promoting lifestyle. But because I really am into food, then it makes me passionate. If we're going to do it, guys guys let's do it in a mindful way right and then maybe that will fade as i get into running and it will just be a bit like you say i just eat on occasion because there's so much other things

that help us recover that give us energy throughout the day that's not food related i don't i've really firmly believe that you know how much sunlight you get in if you're barefoot in the ground you get energy and so many people probably hating right now thinking there's some pseudoscience. There's, I don't know. Dude, I got the, I got the guest house in Topanga ready for you to move into. Everyone will agree with you. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, listen, yeah, yeah. I mean, listen, you know, like, like what you're putting out, like, you know, we're in LA, man, you know, like people are, you know, people are kind of on that wavelength in general.

I speak from experience though. I'm not speaking because it sounds good or sounds happy or spiritual. But I would imagine... This is from experience. In London, it probably gets a different reception when you start talking about stuff like that. Yeah, but I only really hang around with people that are kind of on that tip already now.

Yeah, but if I was like openly... I catch the tube barefoot in London. Do you? Yeah, man. I get some looks. But I like to open people's eyes, like make people think, you know. Uh-huh.

Yeah. Speaking of like, you know, being naked in public, like what was that like doing that photography project? That was a fun project. Yeah. I mean, you were literally like running the streets of London naked and hanging off buildings completely naked. Yeah, yeah.

That was beautiful. How did that all work? I guess, what would they say? The photographs are extraordinary. Naked parkour on Google, and you see the images. I was so happy with how the images came out. They're beautiful. Thank you very much.

Yeah, my friend, he's actually just got to LA yesterday, Jason Paul. Jason Paul, yeah. He took the photos. Great photographer and a great incredible free runner but yeah we decided to do a project we were in santorini uh let's do a photo shoot and then ended up suddenly next thing you know i'm naked because it it looks better with the greek background kind of that greek landscape and then we're in hong kong together and we thought let's get a few more while we can and they just came out good and we thought he thought let's

finish the project i'll come to london and we'll shoot a few more and he came to london and that just seemed like none of the others were anywhere near kind of the level that the london ones were we got maybe 20 25 good photos we decided to release 10 um on yeah london landscape just completely naked hanging from the tops of buildings above you know oxford street and no one looked up, no police. So you didn't have any problems? No problems whatsoever, no. We got away with the whole thing. We did it quite, I mean, it's a good job.

We're quite tacked. And just in general, people just don't look up. It makes you realize when you're hanging for like 30 seconds to a minute from the top of a building above streets filled with people walking back and forth, they don't look up. That's on them, you know, they miss out. So yeah, next time you're walking down a busy street look have a look around as

freemanners we always look up and if anyone does look up it's always a kid first because they're more open-minded but adults are so channeled into where the destination is and they forget to explore their environment and so are those still up for sale yeah by prince i think somebody goes to charity right like jamie yeah because he helps support it so much and he has a really good foundation for troubled teens to help them get into cooking. He's got a 15 project. So yeah, we decided to give some of the proceeds to him

and we sell them. It's beautifulcrime.com. I think beautiful crime is the perfect name in combination with what our project was because technically I guess it's illegal to be naked. But we didn't get in any trouble from anyone. I think everyone, the thought of those photos is like, what, that's weird.

But when people actually see them, the response has been unbelievable from people that actually like them. And was it the Daily Mail that picked it up and like blew it up? Daily Mail picked it up. I did interviews on Australian TV shows, Russian news shows and everything. So it went worldwide.

I think Huffington Post may have posted it. Everything, we're astounded with how well it did. It's limited edition prints, so there's only a set amount of each one. Most of them have gone now, but we sell A1, A2 and A3. Yeah, we're so stoked and it just makes you think you know because nudity doesn't have to be sexual and when people see that they realize that you know around that time when we did that there's a lot of press about kim kardashian's bum with that champagne photo and that'd be yeah and it's like the contrast of two

naked bodies and one is you know that's the modern what's popular this day and age and then this is we're trying to be more classical with yeah well what's the intention behind it you know what i mean like there's a there was a beautiful you know poetic artistic expression and intention behind what you guys were trying to do and you've more than fulfilled that like the images are beautiful for people that are listening yeah definitely check them out yeah so we're working on that we want to work on our next project now nice yeah yeah dangling off bridges and hawaii fruit is my uh current theme board yeah you might not come back yeah i could see you shacking up with evan and that's gonna be that durian i can't wait to eat some durian it's been months since i've eaten durian

oh you fruitarian i just get a little too excited about fruit. You saw my eyes then. I literally haven't had durian in months and I'm so excited. That's addiction right there. Durian is a very interesting food. It has that creamy kind of like custard-like taste. It's definitely an acquired taste. But once you kind of tap into it, then it becomes like a thing. It's one of the few fats.

I always think in nature, what you've got avocado, coconut, and nuts. And what then? Durian. Right, right, right. Yeah, it's not much. So that's why we should got, avocado, coconut, and nuts. And what then? Durian. That's about it. Right, right, right. Yeah, it's not much. So that's why we should eat a low-fat diet, I think. I think so.

I think you're right, man. Well, I think we did it, dude. Yeah. Thanks for having me back, man. It's awesome. Yeah, it was great to connect with you again, man. You're a beautiful soul. I wish you much love.

Thanks. And you're welcome here at any time, man. Thanks, man. thanks to all the viewers that listen to the end yeah as well man i know i go off on some and some rants on this but you know i appreciate and anyone that tweets me that's out running jogging uh yeah cycling listening to these podcasts is wicked keeps supporting rich absolutely man thanks so much so if you're digging on timothy the best way to connect with him is on Instagram yeah I enjoy

that outlet more than anything else yeah Timothy Sheaf and then you're on Twitter too I'm on Twitter I don't use it as much and then Facebook

is Tim Livewire Sheaf official and then my website spiritoftim.com there's a few things on there but Instagram Instagram's my

absolute or Strava Strava Strava's and your YouTube channel too when I unlock my suit. That's your jam. Or Strava right now. Yeah, Strava. Strava's the jam. And your YouTube channel too. When I unlock my phone, Strava's normally the first thing I open these days. Good deal. It's inspiring though.

You see someone else has been out for a run. You go, oh, someone's been for a run out. I'm going to go for one now as well. Right, good. Awesome, man. Cool. Cool. All right.

Peace. Peace. Plants. All right, you guys, that's it. I hope you found that interesting, compelling, expansive, and I hope you had some good takeaways, some things that you can incorporate into your own life, things that Timothy shared that will be helpful to you in your journey. A couple things.

The Plant Power Way is out. We're very excited about it. If you're interested in checking it out, I would suggest a great way to do that is, of course, you can always go to Amazon and it's super cheap right there. It's like 23 bucks and that's all good. You'll get it delivered to you really quickly and all of that. But I also think it's important to support your local independent bookseller. So if you've got a groovy little independent bookstore in your area, maybe go over there and engage the owner or the shopkeeper there and say, hey, I'm interested in this book. Do you have it? And buy it that way, because I think it's important to support our local communities in that way. And I also think that it's important to support our libraries. A great way to support this book and your local libraries is go in and say,

hey, I'm interested in the Plant Power Way. Do you guys have it? If they don't, they'll place an order for it. And that way it'll be available for all kinds of people who might not be able to afford it or might not have heard of it or don't listen to the podcast. And generally, libraries are very receptive. When somebody from the community comes in and says they're interested in a book, they typically order it. So that's just another good idea to plant in your brain. Keep sending me the questions for future Q&A podcasts to info at richroll.com. We're going to continue along that path and be offering up more and more of those. For all the information, education, products, tools, resources, and inspiration you need to take your health, wellness, fitness, and self-actualization to the next level, go to richroll.com. Peruse our nutrition products, our educational products, and yes, our garments, all made with 100% organic cotton.

all made with 100% organic cotton. If you like online courses, I got two of those at mindbodygreen.com, The Ultimate Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition, and also The Art of Living with Purpose. One's about eating, diet, and lifestyle. And the other one is also about lifestyle, but more in the context of goal setting, doing the internal work

to kind of reset your life path and trajectory. If you like the podcast, please give us a review on iTunes. Pick up the free app to listen to episodes older than the most recent 50 you see on iTunes and keep supporting the show. Tell your friends, use the Amazon banner ad and share it on social media. Thanks, you guys. I will see you in a couple days. Peace. Plants.