The Rich Roll Podcast - Toby Morse On Punk, Parenting & PMA

Episode Date: August 5, 2019

Tattoos. High intensity sound. Stage diving. For the unfamiliar, it's chaos. Scary. Violent, even. But to today's guest, being hardcore straight edge is magical — a grassroots community dedicated to art, not anarchy. Celebrating life. And making the world a better place. Best known around the world as the charismatic, energetic and always smiling front man for hardcore punk band H2O, Toby Morse was raised by a single mom in Massachusetts before moving to New York City in 1988 with a dream of becoming a musician. Immersing himself in the burgeoning punk rock scene of Manhattan's Lower East Side, he worked odd jobs. He was a roadie. And in 1994, inspired by Bad Brains, he formed a band that would ultimately become synonymous with the Straight Edge and Positive Mental Attitude (‘PMA”) movements. Their self-titled debut album came out in 1996. Over the years, H2O has played alongside acts like No Doubt and Misfits. In 1998 and 1999 they joined the Warped Tour. Still together, the band continues to pack venues the world over, including a recent European tour that featured Toby's teenage son Max on drums. A dedicated vegan who has never himself touched drugs or alcohol, Toby is also a family man, self-professed “Emo Dad” and the founder of One Life One Chance — a non-profit dedicated to inspiring elementary, middle and high school students to make healthy choices and live a drug-free life. Through public speaking engagements, Toby informs kids how possible it is to maintain PMA, break stereotypes, be a leader, and maintain self-respect. Toby first came on my radar a couple years ago by way of podcast favorite, Cro-Mags frontman and fellow hardcore PMA warrior John Joseph. A friend of JJ's is a friend of mine, so I got hip to Toby's Instagram and quickly fell in love with his consistent flow of uplifting posts. His family-centric high vibe. The gentle, beautiful and uncompromising way he celebrates individuality, honoring the misfits and uplifting the weirdos. And his unwavering commitment to serving kids with his enthusiastic message of hope and positivity. I needed to know more. So here we are. Of course, this is a conversation about Toby's life. Being raised by older brothers who taught him to skate, introduced him to the music that would define his life and scared him straight. It's about what he learned about life from Bad Brains, Cro-Mags and Napoleon Hill. It's about veganism. Parenting. Art. And, of course, PMA. But most of all, this is a conversation about honoring non-conformity — exalting what makes you uniquely you. It's about the importance of community and family. And it's about the courage to blaze your own path. The visually inclined can watch our entire conversation on YouTube here: bit.ly/tobymorse458 (please subscribe!) One thing is for sure — I've found a new friend in Toby. I'm inspired by his wisdom and example. And I'm honored to share his extraordinary life with you today. Peace + Plants, Rich

It's crazy because, yes, it's automatically judged by tattoos, how you look, the sound of the music, the people stage diving, jumping on each other. If you see it as like a normal person, they're like, what is going on here? But when you're in it and you're in the music and the message and you're living it, it's something so magical and something so special to your heart that stays with you for the rest of your life. You know, people always say punk rock's sellouts and punk rock's on the radio, but the hardcore scene always stayed underground. Still there, and there's still kids putting out shows and putting out fanzines and new bands. And, like, it's this community, and it's always been looked at as this scary, violent thing.

And it's totally opposite of that. You know, the punk rock originally was like anarchy in the UK and destroy everything. But hardcore was like, let's fix things. Let's fix everything. And that was, that's the difference to me of punk rock and hardcore. It's like, hardcore is like, let's make the world a better place. That's Toby Morse. And this is the Ritual Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey, everybody. How you guys doing?

What's happening? My name is Rich Roll. I'm your host. This is my podcast. Good to be with you all here today, right now, in the moment, the only moment that there is. If you enjoyed my many, many conversations with John Joseph or my epic episode with Travis Barker, if you're into straight edge punk rock, if you're into PMA, positive mental attitude, then you are in for a treat today, my friends. Today, my guest is musician Toby Morse. He's a longtime hardcore punk rocker, vegan, straight edge, role model dad. This is a guy who has never tried any drugs or alcohol. And he's best known as the vocalist for a punk rock band called H2O.

But he's also one of the vocalists for another hardcore punk group called Hazen Street. And Toby is also the host of his very own One Life, One Chance podcast. JJ John Joseph turned me on to Toby a while back. I've dug following him on Instagram for a while now. He's super cool, very authentic, grounded, enthusiastic about life guy who is always putting out positive and uplifting content. I've wanted to meet him for a very long time. I had an inkling that he would make a great guest for the show and that intuition proved correct. This is a really fun conversation and it's all coming up in a couple few, but first.

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and take the first step towards recovery to find the best treatment option for you or a loved one again go to recovery.com okay toby moore so this was a really fun one we talked about all kinds of things we talked about what it was like for him growing up with a single mom, basically being raised by older brothers, how skateboarding and hardcore punk scared him straight edge. Again, this is a guy who has never drank or done drugs ever. What it was like living in New York City, immersed in the burgeoning hardcore scene, how he was influenced by bands like the Bad Brains, people like Napoleon Hill, the Cro-Mags, and ultimately forming his own band, H2O. We talk about veganism, hip hop, starting a podcast, being parents. His son, Max, is a great drummer who goes on tour with his dad,

following in his footsteps. It's really quite charming. We talk about toxic social media and so many more subjects. So this is Good Times with me and Toby Morse. Super cool to meet you, man. You too. Yeah, thanks for coming out. I've been following you for a while. All the content that you put out,

so inspirational and just high vibe, man. And it's just awesome to finally meet you. You too, we have a similar group of friends. We do, that Venn diagram overlaps. Of course, John Joseph, podcast favorite. Yes. He's your boy. My big brother, yes. You guys go way back, right?

Yeah, I met John a long time ago in the early 90s. Wow. We used to see him, we used to go to hip hop clubs and he'd be walking around by himself. We were like, oh my God, it's John Joseph. We were like the new kids on the scene. And so after seeing him a couple of times, he'd give us like the head nod.

We're like, oh shit, John, give us a head nod. And that's how we kind of met him. It wasn't through Hark. It was through like the hip hop shows. Really? Yeah. That's so interesting. But you knew him from Cro-Mags and all that, right?

Oh, of course, of course. We were scared of that band, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, until I met him. But like, yeah, we used to see him walking down the street, but yeah, I just, I have a really good story about John. Tell it. Me and my wife were crossing Second Avenue one evening and my wife, I was with my friends

and my wife was with her friends and they were ahead of us. And there was a old man coming. He was kind of like handicapped and my wife started helping him across the street too. And there was an old man coming. He was kind of like handicapped. And my wife started helping him across the street too. And these two DJ guys were coming by with all their gear. And they stopped and said something to my wife, like some derogatory stuff towards my wife. And I saw my wife like in this guy's face, like screaming at a guy on the street.

And I was kind of stuck in the traffic. And this car pulls up super fast. And a guy jumps out. I hear him say say that's my sister and he punches both the dudes and takes their dj equipment and jumps back in his car and drives away and it was john joseph oh my god i just got goosebumps telling that story it was like it was a surreal moment of like oh my god john's like a superhero but he just saw it jumped out quick just did it protected her and then drove away. Exited, man, like a superhero move.

That's crazy. That's classic though. I mean, one of my favorite things to do when I go to New York is just walk around his neighborhood with him. And if you pay attention to the way that he treats everybody that he encounters in one of those experiences, it's a life lesson.

Like he knows all the shopkeepers by their first name. He knows their family members. He always asks in on everybody. He knows the names of the kind of local people that are living on the street in his neighborhood. He takes care of them. He looks after them. He brings them food.

I mean, the dude is 110% of service and real through and through. Yeah, I love him. He's a big brother. He's inspiration. Everything he's been through, a survivor, like you said, even his veganism and his Ironmans and just like his band and just the shape that he's in,

the way he performs on stage at that age. I'm 49, he's 55, I think. And I wanna be like that when I'm that age. And yeah, he just, like you said, he gives it 120% always. Yeah, and you guys share the same ethos pretty much. I mean, both influenced by the same bands, both kind of came up under the wing of Bad Brains

and PMA and Napoleon Hill and Minor Threat and that whole kind of scene, you cut your teeth in that world. 100%, especially in the New York scene, that's where for me, I found out about vegetarianism and all that stuff is through the hardcore music. I think it's one of the most powerful types of music for me personally, that's affected me.

And it's one of the first genres of music that was singing about animal rights and vegetarianism in the 80s. Yeah, so let's take it back, man. So you're originally from Massachusetts, right? Yeah, born and taught in Massachusetts, yes. Yeah. Boston, Mass.

Two older brothers. Yes. We were saying before the podcast, I was listening to Toby's Guys' Own podcast and your first episode was interviewing your mom. Yes. With the heavy Massachusetts accent. Tabby, yes.

But like talking about back in the day, like with your brothers growing up and discovering skateboarding and punk rock as little kids and suffering the loss of your dad, he died like really young, right? Yeah, he was 33, had a rare heart condition. Wow. And yeah, so when that happened,

I was kind of too young to realize, so I was only three and not much about death because I was only three, much about death. But soon after that, my mom was working several jobs to keep food on our tables or move overhead. And so she had three boys. And so she worked from job to job. And then while my mom was working, my brothers would sneak me out to like punk shows and stuff. And they got me into skateboarding and punk rock.

But at the same time, they actually, they were partying in the house and drinking and smoking. So they kind of scared me to be straight edge in a sense. Now they turned me onto this crazy music that I could skate aggressively to. And then through the punk rock, like Sex Pistols and Black Flag and bands like that, I found Minor Threat or had more of a message

I could relate to. Right, so older brothers, always the ones who are the influential figures. Here's the cool music. Here's what you should be doing. Like, we'll take care of you. And here's the drug you should never do. So were they out of control or what was it about, about their behavior that, that made you say, like, I don't want to, I don't want to go that route. I think I just, I mean, one time we came home and like the garage, the cellar doors were open, there was smoke coming out and they were

downstairs with the neighborhood girls, like smoking weed and stuff and i'd never seen that before i never smelt weed i'd never seen it and they were drinking stuff um and just the way they acted it just kind of scared me because i looked up to them you know um and then i and then once i saw it affected them and then you know heard the lyrics to straight edge by minor threat i was like oh my god i'm 13 years old. I never tried anything. And now I can skate to this band. They're super aggressive. I love the lyrics.

And I made a commitment from when I was 13 years old, I'm never going to try drinking alcohol ever for the rest of my life. And I did it. And I've been living like that my whole life. That's so crazy, man. I don't even know how I did it. Never drank alcohol, never smoked weed. Never tried it.

Yeah. Right before we started, I asked you if you wanted any coffee. You're like, I've only had coffee didn't even think about it. Never drank alcohol, never smoked weed. Never tried it. Yeah, right before we started, I asked you if you wanted any coffee. You're like, I've only had coffee twice. It makes me crazy. Yeah, caffeine makes you a little crazy. You are a pure vessel, my friend. Yeah, it's crazy, man.

Except for my tattoos, that's whatever, how I express myself and hurt my skin. But yeah, I just never tried anything. Yeah, and never a moment where you almost went there. I mean, so this music was like your buffer to insulate yourself against the peer pressure, I would imagine, right? Totally. It was that and skateboarding. I mean, I definitely got made fun of at school for like, only like loving skateboarding. I didn't have a girlfriend. People call me names at school. And, and you found it pretty fast in school, your friends, are we not going to the cake parties?

But I would go to cake parties. Actually, I would go to cake parties with my brothers, and I'd be the young kid there, and they would give me all the money. They would say, give Toby the money to go collect money for a beer run. And I would get all the money, and I would go home and never come back. I did it a couple of times, and I bought new skateboards and stuff. It was kind of lame. And they'd just probably forget that they gave you the money. Exactly. But you found out pretty fast who your friends are.

And by like 10th and 11th grade, people knew, oh, he was just a breakdancing, hyperactive skateboarding kid who didn't drink. And they loved me for who I was. And that's my whole point about everything I'm about is just to be yourself because, you know, your friends will love you for who you are, not if you drink or smoke or not, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's like a big part of the message that you take to young people now. Yes, for sure, man. The peer pressure and the being yourself. It sounds so cliche, but I speak at schools and that's one of the main things I talk about is the peer pressure and not having to fit in and be a follower. And not being a follower, but be a leader.

Right. And follow your heart, not people. So did you ever go through like a preachy phase? Because you're a very like nonjudgmental dude. You're like to each his own, but did you get a little holier than thou though as being like the only kid who wasn't partaking? I don't know. I think that's the biggest misconception about me that I am preachy.

I call myself teachy, not preachy. And nobody in my band, Straight Edge, not in all of our songs about being straight edge. I'm surrounded by people. My wife's not straight edge. We've been married for almost 25 years. I'm not just hanging out

with vegans and straight edge people. My message was never like, you shouldn't do that because I know what it was like to have a dare or a scared straight come to your school

and tell you not to do something. When you're forced out on people's throats, it's like, they're going to do exactly that. You know what I mean? Like, so my approach has always been leading by example. People ask me why I look young,

why I have so much energy. Well, I haven't eaten meat since 1988 or I never tried drugs, alcohol. I'm trying to be an example of that. Not trying to be like, because I feel like sometimes vegans can be the worst enemy, you know, and they're so preaching down your throat and telling you what to do and like forcing it down you.

I feel like people kind of react. It's a problem, man. It is. It's a big problem. And, you know, I'm a member of the community and I'm empathetic to that sensibility, but at the same time, it just works across purposes with the bigger goal,

which is getting people enthusiastic about a lifestyle that means so much to me. But the minute you start telling people they're doing it wrong or telling them they should be doing this or should be doing that, like you just, the lines of communication just shut down completely.

I know, it's like when people try to go vegan, but they're not 100%, like maybe they're wearing leather shoes or wearing something and people like all of a sudden attack them. And these are like big people who are trying to make a difference. It really bums me out because nobody's perfect. It's impossible to be a perfect vegan. All the stuff they put in your mouth at

the dentist has been tested on animals. You're sitting on leather seats on airplanes. You're sitting on leather seats and Ubers. It's impossible to be a perfect human, let alone be a perfect vegan. Nobody's do our best. Yeah. Well, there's just like, there's always somebody who's more woke. There's always somebody who's more vegan and they're, they're pretty much ready to tell you about it. And it's usually the ones that are super new. They're like six months vegan, like all gung-ho, like relax, man.

We're all human beings on this spinning planet right now trying to figure it out together. Yeah, and I feel like you don't wanna scare people away because whether it's a trend or not, you're doing it for health or for vanity, whatever you're doing it for, we're saving lives by you being vegan. So I'm happy that that's super popular now. You know, I mean, it's helping everything. It's the most positive, healthy trend for everyone.

It's crazy how much it's grown and exploded in recent years. Like we were talking just before the podcast, like Burger King and Carl's Jr. and all these like fast food chains are now offering, you know, vegan plant-based burgers and, you know, more and more kind of notable cultural figures are jumping on board. And it's like, it's really shifted culture in a huge way in recent years. I mean, but you've been doing this forever, man. Yeah, it's amazing, like not to have to eat

like a falafel all the time and not have like those old hockey puck and the ice, the little burger burgers, just the stuff we had to do the first, the first not dogs that came out in the 90s. And it's just having all these options, especially with them in California. This is like not even real life here

because it's vegan everywhere. But just seeing around the whole world how things are changing and people being more conscious. And it's funny because all the bands that I was loving, Youth of Today and Grilla Biscuits and Minor Threat and these bands

were singing about these messages in the 80s. It's all coming, even Chromag's all coming full circle now. It's crazy, man. Right, right, right. Well, let's go back to that time. So you're skateboarding around, you discover punk rock, you got these older brothers who are messing about

and you got to start moving around, right? Like you end up in Newport for a while. Yeah, I moved to Newport, Rhode Island, lived there during the America's Cup races, got really heavily into skateboarding there, and met a bunch of great bands from that scene. But that's like a lot of pop collars and you know. It was, yeah, on Bellevue,

all those mansions on Bellevue. Crazy houses. But we weren't living in the crazy houses. But you skateboard in their front yards and stuff like that, or what is this? I can't imagine skateboarding was like a thing. Yeah, there was because there was like the subculture of like skateboarders.

It was half pipes, there was ramps on First Beach. There was like a store that had a half pipe and there was bands like Verbal Assault and Vicious Circle and Positive Outlook and Proletariat. All these like hardcore bands were skaters. Fred Smith was from the area. He was like a pro skater for Alva. And yeah, I got started

getting heavily into skateboarding and doing contests I was a freestyle skateboarder I got in Thrasher in 1983 it's like my biggest thing ever happened for second place in a skateboard contest in Narragansett Rhode Island and I was like you know just skating all the time we'd skip school a lot and go to thrift stores and buy thrift stop thrift store clothes and skate around and go to the shows but yeah there was this element of like a different level of people there. And then when the America's Cup came, there was an old lady who had her ankle broken by a skateboard. So they banned skateboarding in Newport, Rhode Island.

And we all went and we marched to City Hall. We protested. I was like a super young kid. And we got the law changed back to we could skate again. It was pretty cool. Yeah, you got picked up by the cops, right? Yeah. Yeah, I went down the store to get my mom like a pack of cigarettes and there was no phones.

Went to the liquor store and a cop car came by and they said, they put the lights on, asked me to come to the car and they put me in the car. I was freaking out. I was like crying. And as they took me around the corner, there was more skateboarders

because they were everywhere. And I think I even said like, you're gonna pick them up too? And they picked them up too and ended up going to the police station. It was like stacks of skateboards and all my friends were in there. I was like, holy crap. Yeah. They just banned skateboarding like that. But you guys got it overturned. Got it overturned. It was the first time I ever like

protested against something. That's like your first like punk rock like thing that you did, right? Yeah. I went to City Hall. It was crazy, man. That is crazy. And then my mom didn't even come get me for hours. I think she had to go to work. There was no phones. It seems like your mom put you on a pretty long leash. Yeah. She's pretty permissive. Yeah, I think that- She wasn't like grinding you for being a skater kid or anything like that.

It's really true. And she talks about it now with me, like no regrets, but like she let my brothers watch me. I mean, she was trying to keep us alive and shit. So it's like, I can swear, right? Yeah. So, you know, my brothers took me under the wings. We're not on Rapaport show, but it's pretty cool.

You can do whatever you want. What up, Rap? So, yeah, I mean, yeah, my mom let me hang with my brothers. Yeah, and she trusted me, I guess. And she knew I didn't do any drugs. She knew I was a skateboarder. She knew I was a punk rocker. And she still let me go and go to these shows.

She never went to one of the punk shows to check it out for us. We went and see so many great bands and- Were they like all ages shows? Yeah, all ages shows, yeah. That's the other thing. Like there's so many interesting things about like this sector of music and that scene. Like it was, you know, open.

It was the all ages thing was unique about it. Great. The no drugs and alcohol straight edge thing was unique about it. Like the vegan aspect of it, the positive mental attitude, like all of these things are emblematic of the hardcore scene

that I think people miss or don't understand because they see all these aggressive, heavily tattooed dudes screaming. 100%. And they think it's violent and they're scared of it. Yeah, it's crazy because, yes, it's automatically judged by tattoos, how you look, the sound of the music, the people stage diving, jumping on each other, the pig piles. If you see

it as like a normal person, they're like, what is going on here? You know, but when you're in it and you're in the music and the message and you're living it, it's something so magical and something so special to your heart that stays with you for the rest of your life and it's something that you know people always say punk rock's huge and punk and this stuff it's like um it's it's sellouts and there's punk rocks on the radio but the hardcore scene always stayed underground you know it's still there and there's still kids putting on shows and putting out fanzines and new bands and like it's this community and it's always been looked at as this scary violent thing and it's it's totally opposite of that you know the punk rock originally was like anarchy in the uk and fuck your parents and destroy everything but hardcore was like let's fix things let's fix everything and that was that's

a difference to me a punk rock and hardcore it's like hardcore is like let's fix this make it let's make the world a better place let's it's not just sing about it let's like let's march let's let's uh protest there's pamphlets at the shows i saw the first peter videos was that a hardcore show that's where i first saw like the slaughtering of animals i was like holy shit you know and um so yeah there's this powerful message that people might never ever get to experience to this day because they're always gonna look at hardcore as something like violent and meanwhile people would look at me on the train covered in tattoos of the wife beater on on. And they were like,

I tried to give a seat to an old lady. She wouldn't sit next to me or people pulling their children. I'm thinking like, I don't even eat meat. I haven't ever tried a drug. You guys looking at me like I'm a piece of shit. I've never been arrested. You know what I mean?

Like there's so many stereotypes, especially with tattoos. Well, I mean, you know, in fairness, I mean, look, tattoos are ubiquitous now, but back then it was like, it was different. It's like, it's like, what's going on? It's confusing for people. It's scary because they're not, they don't know what it is. Yeah, it's supposed to be like sailors and criminals.

And like, what is that relationship between body art and like the music? And why do those things go hand in hand with PMA? Like, it's just a recipe of things that, that are just new and different for people. Yeah, yeah. And for us, it was just like how we expressed ourselves are just new and different for people. Yeah, yeah. And for us, it was just like how we expressed ourselves. We actually wear our hearts on our sleeves.

And we saw the other bands like the Cro-Mags and Gnostic Front and these bands with tattoos. And oh my God, it looks so cool. And then you want to get stuff. Like one of my first tattoos, it's like a meet his murder tattoo in 1988. You know, it's like my first tattoos in my arm. And I remember I got a job at Subway

and they had to order me a long sleeve shirt because they didn't want me promoting that kind of message at Subway. And that was in Maryland. He's a murder guy serving up like cold cuts. It's a true story. Yeah. Yeah. And that was in the South.

How old were you when you got your first tattoo? I was 18. Yeah. And all kids should be 18. Are you still getting them? You have any room left? I just got this a couple weeks ago, X. Yeah. Yeah, I'm starting to go here. I waited my whole life to go here,

but yeah, I've been getting tattoos since the 80s, man. X for like straight edge. Yes, sir. Yeah. So where does the music start to come in for you as a performer? Well, I became a roadie in 1989 for a band called Sick of It All.

For a couple of years, I traveled the world with them. I didn't go to college. That was my college, moving to New York. So you moved to New York when you finished high school. I moved all by myself at 18. My yearbook says, move to New York City, support the scene and keep skating. I didn't know what I want to do.

That was the life plan. Yes. What's mom doing? Good luck. I know, exactly. My mom had already kicked me out of the house. I was living with my girlfriend in her attic because my mom got a new boyfriend.

They gave me like an ultimatum, like get a job by this day. And I got a job at like Solomon's Steakhouse or something, being a dishwasher. Three days later, after they kicked me out. Anyway, I moved to New York. I dropped out at CBGB's. It was really scary. Had you been to New York before? With my uncle, like in the early eighties, like Empire Stabling or something. And I'd seen these in the movies. The one place you're like CBGB, that's the one place I know. Just take me there and drop me off yeah and you know where you're gonna stay that night yeah yeah so so basically this band called token entry played dc i became pen pals with them literally the writing letters to timmy chunks the singer who lived in queens it was over a year span and he told me like you want to come out you can live with me for him it was no big deal but for me i

was leaving everything my mom my brothers my brothers, my love of my life. But I didn't care about Maryland. I wanted to get out. So yeah, I got dropped out at a token entry show at CBGB's and it was totally scary. I had all my shit with me. And after that, we drove out to Queens and I ended up, I moved in with my friend, Timmy Chunks. I lived there for a couple months and they told me I had to move because the landlord didn't know I was living there. Yeah.

So I ended up being like sleeping on couches all through Queens. Right, right, right. And just showing up at the shows and starting to make friends with the community. Yeah, make friends with the community. They took me under the wing. There was like a lot of New York ball breaking. They called me like the girly man from Maryland. There was a lot of teasing.

I got a lot of thick skin from moving to New York. I didn't have a kind of tough love growing up. But all these people, my peers, they really took me under the wing. And after I became a roadie for a couple of years, I realized I had things I wanted to say. So I started writing lyrics on tour and that's where my band started.

Yeah, that's kind of like how John started, right? Like being a roadie for bad brains and having JR kind of take him under. Totally. Yeah. Traveling the world with the John, yeah. Yeah. So at some point you're like, I can do this.

Yeah, I mean, the good thing about hardcore is like you don't have to be the best singer. As long as you have, no disrespect, but good thing about hardcore is you don't have to be the best singer. No disrespect, but as long as you have a message and you have the passion and you want to get it out, that's the best thing about that. The guys in my band never even played instruments really before we started playing guitar with us. So yeah, I just started writing lyrics, named my band H2O, I made stickers, started spreading the word through the community. There was no internet. barracks named my band H2O. I made stickers,

started spreading the word through the community. There was no internet. And I would jump on stage. I had one song and I play it on different people's sets. And I play this one song and started getting a little buzz. And then, yeah, things really took off fast after that because started getting on all these bigger bills.

And then we got a record deal, made a dent. It just happened really fast, man. Right. Like how fast? Like in a year? Yeah.

I mean, like our first show was in Queens with Murphy's Law. And our second show was with the Cro-Mags at the Limelight, a massive venue. And then after that, our friends Siv and Sikaprol took us to Europe for six weeks. We had five songs and one t-shirt. Just happened so fast.

Wow, that's crazy. And I was singing. And the way I looked in the scene I was in, people weren't really singing. And I've always been into melodic music. So when it came out, I'm a more singer than screamer. So people are like, holy crap, that's the roadie from Sick of All.

And just the way I looked and hung out with, I think they didn't expect to sound like H2O. We had a love song on our first seven. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, your stuff is definitely more melodic than the typical hardcore stuff. And I got that from the DC scene, which I loved, and the California scene.

And yeah, I mean, here I am 25 years later in the same band. It's crazy, man. It's crazy. And you're touring all the time. Yeah, it's crazy. We didn't have any hits on the radio. We didn't sell a lot of records. And it's just the community and the longevity, and people love the message.

And now people are bringing their children to our shows. People have grown up with this band. My son comes on tour with me now. He plays a song per night on drums with us. Yeah, I saw on Instagram, you took him out, like you went all over Europe with him, right? Yeah, he's been around the world. He's been in Japan.

He's been everywhere. Experience. Yeah, it's awesome to be able to do that for him too. Yeah, well, he seems like a really, I mean, not that Instagram is a window into truth and reality or anything like that, but he seems like a really unique, cool, expressive kid. Yeah, he's a very compassionate, loving kid.

I'm really lucky me and my wife did a really good job. And especially growing up in LA, I was from East, my wife's from Chicago. It's kind of scary raising a kid in California, especially with social media and just all the different pressures. But he's, it's cute, because he did this IG poll on his stories, like just people asking questions like, are he's, it's cute because he did this IG poll on his stories.

Like, just people asking questions like, are you gay? What's your favorite shoes? Like, just random questions and somebody's like, do you vape? He's like,

no, I'm straight edge. And I read it like last week. I was like, oh my God. Like, I wasn't supposed to see that. He was just doing that

for like the people that follow him. Like, I've never preached to him. Like, you have to be like this. Like, he's never had meat.

He'll never eat meat. He hates it. He thinks it's disgusting. He won't even eat the possible burgers or beyond. He won't even eat it. Whoa, he doesn't even eat, he hates it. He thinks it's disgusting. He won't even eat the possible burgers or beyond. Won't even eat it. Well, he doesn't even eat that, wow. That's gonna take like a lot of courage and strength

and composure and self-confidence to kind of navigate your peer group and have that kind of conviction. Yeah, now there's a bunch of friends at school who are vegan because of him. It's really cool and they catered to him at school with his diet at school. And I don't know, it's just more conscious world, man. I think more people, more younger kids are too. Yeah, it's cool.

But still, how have you sidestepped like that kind of natural urge that I'm sure you had when you were his age to kind of rebel and push back against the parental unit? I know, it's crazy because he listens to this crazy death metal music that me and my wife have never played in the house. It's the only type of music me and my wife do not like. So, he found this genre of music on his own that he loves. And it's totally insane music that it's like, I can't explain it, but he found it on his own own. So it's kind of his rebellion against us in a way.

And he has a band and the band sounds like Mr. Bungle and like some grunge 90s stuff has nothing to do with my music. So that's cool. Right. And what do you think you did or are doing as a parent that has kind of created this creature who feels good about himself

and can kind of make his own way without succumbing to all of these pressures that lead us astray. For us it's communication. It's the number one thing we talk about in my house is we talk about everything with my son from day one, about any kind of bullying, just anything, any pressure. We have such an open, open relationship.

It's kind of insane. Like sometimes like, okay, cool, that's enough. I don't wanna hear about that. But we talk about everything and there's this, we're a total tight unit family, man. And my wife grew up, you know, with just her mom, you know, I grew up just with my mom basically. And so to have like a full family structure is so important to us. And, you know, I can't really, I can't call my dad and say, hey, remember when you took me fishing? I can't get any advice from my dad because I don't have one. So I do the best with all the values I've learned from growing up in punk rock to like instill them in my son.

And it's just a lot of honesty and communication and love, tons of love. And it's interesting because a lot of his friends like to come over and hang at our house because we have like the drums in the room. Like I skate, like it's a good vibe, you know? And I don't know. I think it's just being honest with them. And- The non-judgmental. Yeah, 100%.

But no matter how cool you are and like you're super cool, like your kids don't think you're cool, right? Like you're just dad and mom. Yeah, I mean, I feel like his friends think I'm cooler than he thinks I'm cool. I'm sure that's the case. Yeah, and I think that, you know, one day when he's on his own,

looking back, he'll realize like, wow, I get to travel the world and do this cool stuff. I know he sees it now, but it's hard when you're not. Like just based on the posts that you put up and that he puts up, like I get the sense that he understands that, you know? And I just think like when he did that thing where with Kat Von D,

where he like did the makeup thing with her, I was like, wow, that's like amazing that he not only did that thing where with Kat Von D where he like did the makeup thing with her I was like wow what that's like amazing that he not only did that but like shared it like he's basically putting on makeup and dressing up like a woman and like just here I am man yeah that took that took a lot of a lot of heart to do he so he did a campaign for Kat for Divine it was a tribute to Divine and um yeah he was a full drag queen queen. And she asked him to do it. He was like, sure. He didn't hesitate about doing it. He was nervous when he went there.

But once he had all the makeup on, he started feeling himself. He was in it. He really loved it. I mean, there was a lot of, he got a lot of negative stuff from some of those posts. But he doesn't care about any of that stuff. But people were just like, oh my god. But I was getting texts from random people like, that's so amazing. Your son's so proud to do that.

And people hit me up saying, no, my kid is transgends. All people hit me up from all different walks of life saying this is so amazing and so powerful that your son had the balls to do that and he did it. And yeah, it was a really proud moment, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the anti-bullying thing is so central to like your message and even like on all your merch

and your swag, it's like, and racism and all that kind of stuff. Like, and that's just seems like an outgrowth of just this PMA sensibility that goes way back to the day. Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, I feel like it's very contagious to be a positive and to be and do the best you can. Like I also posted, I'm not perfect.

I don't wake up every day. Like everything's wonderful and I get depressed. I get sad, I go through anxiety, do all that stuff. I try to work out and push through it. But you know, the main thing is trying to push positivity because I feel like it's really helped me in my life. I feel like you put negative energy out there. It comes back to you. It comes back to you and who you surround yourself with. And positivity has always been something I live by with my band, with my marriage and being a father, it's really helped me. And just seeing the good in everything. It would be wild to like wake up Napoleon Hill from the dead and go, dude, do you realize like how your work

has like permeated this subculture in a certain way and still lives on? Yeah. You see that like somebody's family members, they have an Instagram for him now. Oh, they do? Yeah, it's really popular. And so they do like live feeds and stuff.

But somebody from his family are running that. Yeah, it's really popular. And so they do like live feeds and stuff, but somebody from his family are running that. Yeah, it's just with that book in the 60s, it's Think and Grow Rich and Success Through a Positive Mental Attitude. I always try to push those books because those are the ones that inspired the Bad Brains who then inspired me and John and stuff. Right, right, right.

That's wild, man. Yeah, just that thinking, that mentality, it's really powerful, man. Well, growing up without a dad, did you seek out like father figures in the scene? Who were the guys that kind of washed out for you? 100% the scene, Kevin Seconds from a band called Seven Seconds,

one of my favorite bands. He was a total father figure to me. He knows it. I'm friends with him now. Ian McKay from Mind and Threat, 100%. I live with the Gorilla Biscuits guys in Queens. That's where I got into vegetarianism. So Gorilla Biscuits and Youth of Today,

they were big impacts on my life. And even Rusty Pistachio, the guitar player in my band, he was like a father figure to me, looking out for me. But definitely in the music, yeah, I looked up to these bands. Milo from Descendants. You go to these shows and you see these guys on stage and you love their music and their lyrics

and they inspire you. And then after they're done playing, they're standing right next to you at the guys on stage and you love their music and their lyrics and they inspire you. And then after they're done playing, they're standing right next to you at the merch booth and you get to go say hi to them and talk to them. And that's so powerful in the punk rock community that everybody's all equal. And to be able to talk to your heroes like that, it was really impactful in my life, for sure.

And write them letters. I got postcards from Ian McKay from the 80s. It's awesome. It's awesome. It's crazy. Yeah. So where does the vegetarian veganism thing start to happen for you? So that kicks in in 1988,

you know, I was a hip hop kid and punk rock kid and KRS wanted this song called My Philosophy. We talked about vegetarianism and I love KRS-One. I thought it was still one of the greatest rappers ever. And he started singing about that and I was living with Gorilla Biscuits and I became vegetarian because of them. And then I sang on the record Start Today

and had a song called Cats and Dogs and the chorus was Thou Shall Not Kill. So that was really powerful being part of that record. And we're all part of this like straight edge, vegetarian, hardcore scene. And there was pamphlets at all the shows. And then there was shelter became, they brought Christian into the scene.

So it was like around 88 where everything changed for me. Being in New York at that time was just, it was so powerful. Yeah, John always says, ital is vital. Did you ever go to Angelica's kitchen? Oh yeah, man. I think he worked there or he worked somewhere.

He worked at some like natural food market, but that must've been earlier. He worked at Prana Foods maybe. That's where Chaka worked and Mark Subacharge, tons of bands worked there. And then there was, yeah, Down to Earth where Siv worked and Purcell worked. Like all the hard produce worked

at these vegetarian health food stores. You could always go get like a scrunch of free mail. Yes, and then there was Kate's Joint. Yeah, there was, man. But I'd say John, yeah, Angelica's was great. A good friend of mine worked that place for a long time. Angelica's was great. RIP, it's no longer.

I know, but now it's Organic Grill. It's a great place too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Val. I like Candle though, you like Candle 79? I do, yeah now it's Organic Grill. It's a great place too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Val. I like Candle though. You like Candle 79? I do. Yeah, it's great. I mean, that's like the crossroads of New York. Totally.

It's like the fancy place. Yeah, that's where Tal used to be too. Right, I know. What up, Tal? Tal's the man. So you know Tal from that scene as well, right? Yeah, I know Tal from the New York scene. Yeah, he used to come to our shows.

And funny story is that I think in 1989, he didn't have enough money and he went to go buy a t-shirt from Sick of It All and I was at Rhodey and he was a younger kid and he only had five bucks. So I sold him that t-shirt. And when I reconnected with him like nine or 10 years ago, he told me that story

and how he still had the same t-shirt and never forgot that day. It's pretty amazing, man. That's crazy. And that's how we reconnected actually. And for people that are listening, Tal Ronan is the chef and the proprietor of Crossroads, which is like not only the best vegan restaurant in LA,

it's like the best restaurant in LA, period. Yes, agreed, 100%. Travis Barker, who's been on the show as part owner. You just had your birthday party there, right? 50? No, 49. 49, all right, man, you got another year, 49. That was like a who's who of like musician vegan people. Yeah, right? Yep. 50? No, 49. 49. All right, man. You got another year. 49. But that was like a who's who of like musician vegan people. Yeah, it was awesome.

Moby in there, Travis. Yeah. It was a good vibe. I love Crossroads, but I'm so proud of Tal and everything he's done and so approach the veganism. Yeah. It's just the world peace starts in the kitchen. It's so smart and so true. Yeah. So how do you think about that, like, spiritually? What, the veganism? Yeah. I mean, I feel like living a cruelty-free life and not harming animals and not harming the planet

and doing the best you can every day is such a spiritual life. And it's such a positive thing to be involved in. I feel like it makes you a better person. It makes me feel happy with what i'm doing for the planet for i don't know i just feel like everything about it is uh it's been a spiritual journey especially seeing how the world's changing and seeing how it affects other people and um i don't know i just i don't know i feel like if everybody was living this way it'd just be such a different world man it's just i know i know we're getting there. I know

someday it could happen when I'm gone and my sons don't walk on this planet that slaughterhouses are gone and all that stuff. But I feel like the spiritual journey for me has been knowing every day that I'm not hurting anything or hurting anyone and doing my best to be a perfect human, which I'm not. But I don't know. For me, it's, I don't know. It's just something positive. It's something that I feel like is no brainer. I feel like there's so many options. It's 2019. I can't stand when people say,

what do you get your protein from? It makes me so angry. It's just easy. As a nonjudgmental dude, you should be able to like manage that one because you know it's coming. I know. It's an opportunity if like,

look, sometimes somebody's throwing that at you, but sometimes they really don I know. It's an opportunity. Like, look, sometimes somebody's throwing that at you, but sometimes they really don't know. It's true. You know? Yeah, I like to post stuff about that a lot and put proteins up and pictures of gorillas and stuff. Right. But yeah, I mean, it's an amazing time to be vegan.

It's an amazing time to see the planet change. And I never expected to be like this with the fast food spots and just people that I grew up with and people that known i've been like this all of a sudden they are not because of me maybe it's because of health reasons or they watch what the health or something but they change i'm like oh my god really you didn't you know that was me the whole time next to you but i never said anything to him like yeah be like me um it's just cool to see people more conscious you know um there's a song by youth of today called no more and it was an anti meat saw in the eighties.

And they're like smashing hamburgers and stuff. And one of the lyrics is, we'll have a more conscious caring society. And that's exactly what we're having right now. Yeah. It's crazy, man. It's pretty cool. Yeah. What was the kind of freestyle that you threw down in your podcast where you're like, no meat straight,

no drugs. Did you just make that up or was that from a song? I thought you were just- No, I just made it up on a whim. I did a freestyle for my first podcast, yeah. I never gonna, I love hip hop so much, but I would never rap because I don't respect the culture too much.

But Veggie T would be a good name though. Yeah. Do you, I mean, you're like a grounded, you seem like you have a good, like healthy grasp on like humility and gratitude. Like, is that a practice? Does that come natural? Is that an outgrowth of just kind of like this lifestyle that you've been living for so long? Or how do you think about that? I don't really think about it. I mean, I definitely feel that I'm very lucky to do what I love for this many years. And I've built this life for myself through pretty much nothing.

And I appreciate it and love it. I worked hard to get to where I am with my band. But the fact that I have no boss and I get to do what I want and still play music at 49 years old, I'm very lucky. I hate to throw the word blessed around because that's thrown around a lot. I definitely pay my dues and I'm blessed to be still doing what I do. And I feel like the key to being positive and being happy, it can't happen for everyone, but doing what you love is the key to that, man. I feel like doing what you love keeps you positive and happy.

It keeps you young. I know there's people that are positive that work crappy jobs from nine to five and they hate it and they work in a cubicle and they and they're and they're and they're positive too but i feel like to really have control of your life and be your own boss and do what you love i really i feel like there's no reason why you shouldn't be happy and be positive yeah because you get to do what you love and i feel like i'm very lucky to still do that i don't only have a plan b i never really had a plan b i just live my life and that's kind of stressed my wife out for a whole marriage is that I just live and I just, I never had a plan. I just did it. I did the band and it's 25 years later. I have a nonprofit. I speak at schools, have a podcast. I have a couple of

things I do. My merch does really well. I'm thankful for that, but I just get to live this life. And I think it kind of bugs people out a lot because I'm like, you're just a hardcore dude in the band. How are you doing this? I just, I hustle, man. I really focus on trying to do good and put good out there. And I don't know, I mean, I just, I live a good life.

I'm very lucky. I'm healthy. Let's get all my blood checked, get my heart checked because I was always worried about my dad and get all that done. And every time I get that done, my doctor's like, you're healthy.

I was an 18 year old girl. I'm like, nice, vegan life, man. Yeah, well, no plan B. I mean, I would imagine when you said I'm going to New York, there were a bunch of people rolling their eyes and like, see how long this is gonna last. But to like show up and like create something out of nothing and if you could like go back

and talk to that 18 year old kid as a 49-year-old who's still doing the thing that you were trying to do at that age, it's insane. I mean, what an incredible gift. Yeah, and it's like, I'm not a singer. It just started singing. I didn't plan that. I went to New York. I had to do something music.

Worked at record labels, was a roadie, then started the band. And then, yeah, I met my wife on tour. So many good things happened when I got involved in this scene in new york because i'd already been in rhode island and dc but new york was something way special yeah and um yeah i just i feel like it is the positivity it's not giving up it's focusing on what you love it's sticking to it it's staying relevant it's uh keeping the passion i still love what i do. My band and my brothers, I hang out with them on a daily basis.

I talk to them every day. We love each other. It's not going on stage, going through the motions for money. We love each other. We love these songs. We still live these lyrics that we wrote over 25 years ago.

It's the same guys in the band from day one? Yeah, everybody except for my brother, yeah. He goes back and forth. He's an offspring now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, it's the same guys, man. I mean, most bands don't make it past the first year or two, right? And. So yeah, it's the same guys, man. I mean, most bands, you know, don't make it past, you know, the first year or two, right? And to be still doing it together

and to say you love those guys, like that's like, what is that, what is that like recipe? I think it's just, we never took ourselves too seriously. We're not the tightest band. We are pretty sloppy at times, but it's about the message and how we get it out. We love each other, we're just friends and we love what we do and we've had different a million managers and booking agents we're on a major label independent label we're on cone o'brien we're

on mtv but all that stuff didn't affect who we were as people like it didn't matter what label we were still the same dudes and we always stayed humble and really appreciated where we were we played cone o'brien had john joseph in We played Conan O'Brien, had John Joseph in the audience. He was like the only friend we had in the audience. He was like yelling in between takes. And on all the amps. Yo, Toby! Yeah, he was so proud.

And we wore like all of our friends' favorite band tees. We took tape and did shout outs and tags all over our amps because we knew that this may never happen again. And it didn't. But we were the first New York hardcore band to be on late night television we were so excited man we appreciated it and that just those moments like that we've never took for granted and um i think people can relate to our lyrics and they know it's coming from somewhere real and real experiences i've always worn my heart on my sleeve i had my wife on the cover of my first seven inch i've always put my family out there i've always shared my life with people i have nothing nothing to hide. I'm just, this is who I am.

And I don't know. I just feel like that resonates with people and we're lucky that people can connect to it, you know? Well, I think it's anchored in the DIY roots of the hardcore, you know, subculture because you didn't set out to become a pop star or like a huge rock and roll band. That world is all about stickers and flyers

and your friends. And it's like, you're not in it to like get huge, right? So anything that comes out of it is like gravy. So it's almost like the healthy gratitude for anything that happens is packed into it. 100%, like, yeah, there was no goals of like, we need to be on television, the radio. It was none of that stuff.

We just want to play music and tour. Was there some backlash though after Conan, like the sellout thing? Oh yeah, for sure. Because we just signed to a major label and that was like right over the internet and the message board started popping and people would talk a lot of crap on there.

But I think we got a lot of shit for that record. record but once again we took a chance and we did a record that was with a bigger producer and we had a more uh polished sound because we were listening to not just hardcore we're listening to other types of music and we had opportunity and we went to mc and we tried it and it didn't work out we tried it and then but but the cone o'brien thing happened at the same time like oh now they're on television right and it's like you wouldn't you want like your favorite band to like get their message out further if you believe in their message wouldn't you want other people to hear the message too and get it out to a bigger audience and that was the whole thing for us like we wouldn't just tour with harker bands we tour

poppy bands we we take chances and have an audience who never heard us before i love the challenge to win them over and we just want to get the message out. And that was our whole point from day one, using this band as a vessel to spread our message. And so we tried with the major label. It wasn't a horrible thing, but we got caught up in the mix of the other bands and the timing and stuff. But it was a fun experience, you know?

Yeah, well, as somebody who lives their life pretty transparently online, and as somebody who's all about positivity, how do you navigate like the treacherous waters of like toxic social media? It's hard. It can be really draining. Like sometimes I tell my friends

that I'm too emo for Instagram. I'm too emo for that because sometimes I do let it get to me. Emo dad. Emo dad. And sometimes I do even like, it could be like a hundred amazing comments and then one negative one. I'm just like, I don't know, I just get bummed. And sometimes I do, even like, it could be like a hundred amazing comments and then one

negative one. I'm just like, I don't know, I just get bummed. And sometimes I'll DM like, hey, I try to have a conversation because I want to know what the problem is. I want to talk to him about it. I don't just want to delete them or block them. I actually try to see what your beef is with me first. Because I do take it, maybe I take it personally because it's my everything.

It's my heart. And what I put out there is really me. It's like, I'm not, I'm not candy coating anything I post.'s really me and sometimes people take that as really that's you like some people get bummed I like Coldplay they get so offended by that because I'm supposed to be a hardcore dude I can't like other types of music but yeah it's hard man it's a really positive tool to promote yourself and promote a message and promote your merchandise and you know spread everything you're doing and the other hand it's like a real negative, dark place, man. And sometimes you get caught up in that,

just getting caught up going down these dark spirals. Yeah, even like political stuff, just everything. It's like it's draining, man. I guess you could check on your phone how many hours you spend on that. I haven't done that yet. I'm scared. My wife tried to make me do it the other day. I shouldn't.

I know, but like at the same time, it's like, when Instagram went down a couple of weeks ago for like that 15 hours or whatever, I had a drop I was dropping on Friday. And I just realized in that day, like, holy crap, this is how I make my living. It's really scary. That's how I promote all my stuff.

I'm on Twitter too, but like in Facebook, but like, I'm like, wow, this is such a powerful tool. And like, I hope it's up so I can promote my new thing, dropping Friday. It's kind of scary, man. Yeah, that if it got taken away, I'm like, wow, this is such a powerful tool. And I hope it's up so I can promote my new thing, Drop and Fry. It's kind of scary, man. Yeah, that if it got taken away, then you're cut off at the ankles. Yeah, that's kind of scary, man.

Yeah. But you probably, do you have like an email list and stuff like that? That's old school, I should. Yeah, you should, man. I would think like anybody from hardcore would have some crazy email list of people that goes back to the 90s.

Maybe Facebook, we could do it. Yeah, that was a scary moment. I was like, holy crap. This is kind of... Obviously, I make money from touring. That's all. Yeah. But I like that you're like a lover.

You're like, yeah, I love Coldplay. You posted that thing about the Backstreet Boys. Love Backstreet Boys. And it's funny because the toughest dudes... Kits people off guard. I know. And the toughest dudes be like, you're like that too. I see some of the comments. It's like, it's okay to like the toughest dude people off guard i know and the toughest dudes be like you're like that too like i'll see some of the comments it's like it's okay to like other

types of music you can be hardcore you can be tatted up but it's okay to like other music man you shouldn't live your life with blinders on it's like how about just celebrating any artist that's putting themselves out there trying to do something 100 you know 100 man like dude if people know all the band tattoos i had on my body of like U2 and Madonna and all this stuff, they'd be like, what? I mean, people do know. I have like a hundred band tattoos and it's not just hardcore. Like, I like everything.

I like to keep my mind open. Where did the, walk me through how you got involved in doing the public speaking thing with kids. Oh, yeah. So I have a nonprofit called One Life, One Chance. It's named after one of our songs from our record, FTTW 1999. Basically, there was a girl at a school

in Far Rockaway, Queens, who was a fan of H2O. And she made a PMA mix CD for her students for a spring break. And it was like all a bunch of bands. And just one song by H2O is called Sunday. It's a heavy song about my dad um and becoming a dad and so when they came back the number one song on this pma mix cd they connected to was this song called sunday and so she's like i'm gonna send you some letters so she sent me

letters from every kid in the class breaking down to me why they love that song i could get through maybe the third one i was bawling just reading these letters these kids knew nothing about hardcore punk rock, nothing. She's like, next time you come to New York, come by and meet me. You should talk to them. I'm like, about what? She's like, are you straight edge? You're vegan? You're a dad? You're fully tattooed? Stereotypes? I was like, okay. So I started writing all these

notes and cue cards. I put a PowerPoint presentation together, which I'd never done in my life. I was so freaking... I was so nervous, man. I went to the school they were metal detectives it was super gnarly get into the classroom have my powerpoint have all my cards

and I just have my mic and then like I just start talking I start doing my thing I didn't look at my cards one time ever again never had to started telling my story and then like after that I did a Q&A and everybody stood up and asked me questions they read me their letters it was hugging it was crying it was such it's a connection I had never experienced in my life. It's not like playing a

show where kids know who you are. They come see you. They pay the money. They sing along. These kids didn't know who I was. I'm some tattooed freak in the front of the class telling my story. And I talked about, I talk about my friends who passed from drugs and alcohol growing up. No dad, racism, positivity, punk rock, skateboarding, everything. And it's just really connected. And I remember walking out of that school, my friend, Von Lewis, who took me. And Tal was there too. And I said, I want to keep doing this. And then immediately, once I posted about it, every single punk rock hardcore kid who was like on the PTA or like a teacher or a counselor or a principal, all hitting me up.

So just on the strength of me and my band, I started going to all these schools. Wow. And so- Yeah, Tal drove you to that first one. Yeah, he did. Yeah, yeah. He was like talking, I was so nervous for the first one.

So what were you, what was the message? Like, what were you imparting that connected so deeply with these kids? I think for those kids that I'm up there with a t-shirt, I'm covered in tattoos, as soon as I walk in, there's no way in the world, even though it's straight edges, I'm covered in tattoos. As soon as I walk in, there's no way in the world, even though it's straight edges, I would never imagine that somebody who does what

I do and looks like I look would never try drugs and alcohol. That totally bugged out the kids, first and foremost. I wasn't saying I'm a recovering addict. I lost my wife and my kids for drugs. I never experienced any of it. Most of the kids I spoke to probably had more experience with drugs than I did. And then I just told this story. These are my friends. These are some people you might recognize who are celebrities who live a straight edge vegan lifestyle, whatever. I had a bunch of friends in there and they were connecting with that.

And I think it was just a connection to me just being real and honest. And then the Q and a is my favorite part because that's when people actually, actually really in serious questions. Some people pull me to the side after the, after the thing. And they start crying and tell me about side after the thing and they start crying, telling me about like how the mom and dad fight in the house and smoke weed or my daughter lost her life to drunk driving. Just crazy, intense stories.

And by the time I'm out of there, kids are like handing me, from the time I do the second presentation, they're like writing One Life, One Chance and straight as you draw me all these pictures, they're DMing me. It's an immediate connection. It's so overwhelming. And um i don't know my main fear going there was like i can't swear i'm such a sailor on stage i can't say fuck i can't swear i was so scared about

swearing the whole entire time i've never sworn at any schools i've done like 36 schools i never swore once but um yeah it was really i think john came to one i think in new york we gave away a drum set to a school needed travis, I did a video with Travis. We surprised the school and gave a drum set. I started asking schools what they needed for their music departments. It got really good, but it was just really hard to do that because there's a lot of red tape involved. It's not like booking a show.

They want you when they want you. And so I was trying to do H2O shows and then do a school, but I'd be so tired by the time I got to the school. It's hard, man, because the schools that really want you have no money to get you there. Yeah. So that became really frustrating for me. And, um, I haven't done one in a minute cause I get really busy with my band and, um, I don't know. I just love it. So I just spiral from that. Then I just took like a year to get my nonprofit status. That's amazing. I have a board of directors

right now. Um, and how do you, how are you raising money and what are you doing with the money that you raise for that? I haven't raised really any money. Travis Barker stepped in. It's really hard. Travis Barker stepped in the first time and he helped me out. We had merchandise and all this cool stuff he raises. Thank you, Travis, for that.

For a couple of schools, he got me. And then just, I just been doing it myself. I do it for free. I just go out and play a show and I book around it. I'm not trying to make money off it. I love talking to the kids and spreading the message. But in reality, it's really hard to get me across the country to do that. So just basically using the nonprofit to underwrite the expenses required so that you

can show up at these schools. Totally. I've met with so many different people in the course of 10 years about what they could do and wanted to do and it all fell through or just different ideas and like this traveling school tour, which we've tried to do, which have been awesome. Like I want to, I still want to do it. I love doing it. I still get hit up about doing it all the time. It's just frustrating because it's just hard to do it, especially with my tour schedule and everything else going on, trying to balance it all. But I love doing it. And all the people that got me to the schools, the first ones, I appreciate them for believing in me to come there because I didn't have any, I didn't go to college to be a speaker or anything.

It's like, I didn't have any background for this. I'm not a psychologist or anything. I'm just me. I'm just a singer in a punk band. Yeah, but that's what's powerful. That's what connects with people. That's what I think. It's that truth and authenticity

and that lack of judgment and just having your guard down and speaking to them like human beings. Yeah, I think that's what it was. It was very real and just honest. And I just told everything about my life. It just, yeah, my life. So I think that's really what connected with it originally. And yeah, it was really fun doing that. I'm going to keep doing it. It's just hard. It sucks because I waited so long to get my nonprofit. And now I have a nonprofit. I'm really not doing anything with it now. So yeah, I'll definitely get back to it once I'm done with my touring life. Well, I've got a teenage daughter and a preteen daughter. I got two older boys that are musicians

that just moved out. They live in Echo Park now. Oh, awesome. Pursuing the music thing. That's awesome. I'll tell you more about that later. Yeah. But with the daughters,

especially the teenage daughter, like I'm really in touch with just how intense, like the peer pressure is and the sort of pressures that come with adhering to kind of a certain social structure and how important it is like where you fall in that kind of like pecking order of your friends. And it's so intense and it's just exacerbated by, you know,

the phones that we have in our pockets that basically allow, you know, young people to kind of see where everybody is at all moments and who's doing well and who's not and the FOMO and like who the cool kids are. Like, it's just, I can't imagine having to contend with that when I was at that age. Yeah, we didn't have phones.

We like played outside, we skated, we did creative things, went to shows, we did creative things, went to shows. We did all kinds of cool things. We got to do that. And so it's like my son would never know a world without phones or social media. And it's crazy to see him on his phone. And I don't know what he's,

I try to like be in the mix on what he's, I totally trust him. I know he's not doing anything crazy, but it's just the pressures and the different things. And it's just like this Kardashian world of like expectations for women to look a certain way and be a certain way and yeah you're looking at people and seeing what they're doing that they're really doing that you're not doing that like the whole that whole um whole fire festival thing that is a perfect example of it but just like the realness

of it and like you said like being accepted and being down and everybody's at coachella just to get their picture taken at coachella really don't care about the music. And I feel like- Somebody posted the other day, I saw like, if they just had those like fancy backdrops at Coachella and there were no bands, like all the same people would still show up. It's true, man. Instagram pictures. It's true, man. It's like that. And like, also just with the bullying too, like we would go to school and people would talk crap to us. And then we'd go home with our parents and we'd be safe. It just continues now on the phones all night long, whether at home, on the phone,

social media. The kids can't escape any kind of pressure or negativity now. It's with them 24-7. And it's scary. It's definitely scary being a parent. Definitely scary with that. But that's what I'm saying. The communication is super important. As long as you communicate with your kids, you know exactly what they're going through and dealing

with. Hopefully they tell you everything. But I see my son taking selfies all day. I like what are you doing is it oh i'm doing my i'm doing i forgot his call man my streams or something the streaks the streaks i'm doing my streaks is like and like my friend my friends are like but that's like the program is designed to keep you on it by like creating this pressure around these streaks it's insane you're just playing into their own game. Like their game that they set the rules to. I think Steve Jobs said like he wanted to create

like the human extension of the human body. I think that's what he was saying about the phone. It actually is true. Yeah, but he wouldn't let his kids use the phone or the iPad. Really? Yeah. I didn't even know that.

Yeah. Wow, man. Yeah, it's intense. I feel like there's so much before like for young girls, it'd be the magazines they got and see the skinny models on the front. They'd have to go get a subscription and go buy the magazines in the mall. Now it's just scrolling.

I look like that. I need to look like that. I get my lips like that. I can't even imagine. I can't even imagine, man, the pressures, especially where we live. We're in the heart of it, man. I know.

It's the belly of the beast. It is. The Kardashians are right down the heart of it, man. I know. It's the belly of the beast. It is. And Kardashians are right down the road here. You know what I mean? They're like literally down the street from us. And then they had the lip challenge that one time that people were cutting their faces. They were sucking on glass to make the lips pop.

That was a crazy thing too. I don't know about that. Oh yeah. It was like the lip challenge where they put their lips in a glass and they suck it out and then the lips would pop. And then just to get fat lips for a minute. Oh my God. It's just crazy. And it's just like, and then people lips would pop and then just to get fat lips for a minute. Oh my God.

It's just crazy. And it's just like, and then people like not really working hard to be famous. They want to be famous on social media and make money off that

but really have no, you can be pretty and stuff. It's just like the work ethic. It's just all that's so different now in YouTube. Just be famous, do a couple goofy videos. You can be like multi-millionaire.

My son's telling me about all these YouTubers and stuff. I'm like, what? With these big houses and all these cars from just doing YouTube silly videos. It's crazy, man. It's a crazy world out there.

Well, one of the things that you talk about all the time is like role models. Like how can you be a role model? Like some people don't wanna be a role model. A lot of musicians are like, I'm a musician, I'm not a role model, but you've kind of like step willingly, like kind of embraced this role. And one of the things you talk about all the time is like,

look, we don't have, we need healthier role models out there for young people, especially, given what you just said. 100%, and like, first and foremost, not just a role model as a musician, but as a parent, I think it's our number one job to be role models for our children, because if we're not their role models, they're going to find it in somebody else that may not be so positive, inspirational, and compassionate. They might look outside their household for some, I don't know, some other artist or just whoever, maybe somebody at their school.

So it's really important to be a role model for our children so they can look up to us. They don't have to look up to us, but we want to lead by example. Just like I say in my music and everything I post, I want to lead by example, be living proof that you can live a certain way and still have a fun, successful, happy life. But yeah, I mean, as far as role models concerned, I don't consider myself one maybe, I try to be the best as a husband and as a father. And if I am one in music, that's great. I feel like, not to toot my own horn, but if I was to be a role model for somebody, maybe I'm a good example because I don't do drugs, I don't party, I don't eat animals,

I exercise, I try to be positive, I try to get a good message out there. I don't party. I don't eat animals. I exercise. I try to be positive. I try to get a good message out there. I'm not telling people to look up to me. I'm not telling people that I should be their role model. But when you have this platform and you sing in a band and you inspire people, you do have some sort of role of accountability. Not accountability. Maybe if you're writing these lyrics that people love me and you should be living by those lyrics. Some people just don't live their lyrics or live what

they're talking about or singing about. And I live those lyrics. And so if people look up to me for a certain song that I wrote, yeah, I wrote that song and I meant it and I live it. And so, yeah, I mean, I'm just me and I'm not trying to be like, look at me, you should look up to me and I should be your role model. But as far as my son is concerned, like he tells me all the time that I'm his role model and I'm like his hero or whatever. And that's just me being me. I'm not trying to portray a certain image or portray a certain thing to make myself look better because I'm not a perfect person, like I keep saying.

But yeah, the role model is for my son. Oh, man. He likes me. I mean, it doesn't get better than that for your son. I know, but he likes some hip hop for my son. Oh, man. I mean, it doesn't get better than that for your son. I know, but he likes some hip-hop, and I'm just like, oh, my God. But that's what they're supposed to do. I know. They're supposed to, listen, you know this as well as anyone. The next generation is supposed to fall in love with music that you don't understand.

True. But, like, everything I represent is the total opposite of the hip hop he's listening to. That's because you have an expectation that you're like, I'm the most open-minded person in the world when it comes to music. So of course he goes and he finds the one kind of music that you can't wrap your head around.

You gotta like celebrate that because that's your DNA. Yeah. You know, it's true. And I say this at the schools too. Like I met Snoop Dogg. I love Snoop Dogg, but I don't smoke weed like Snoop it's true. And I say this at the schools too. Like I met, I met Snoop Dogg. I love Snoop Dogg, but I don't smoke weed like Snoop Dogg. That's what I say at the school is you can love an artist, look up to them, love their music, but you have to try to

be exactly like them. So it's like, yeah, my son listens to like Little Pump, but my son doesn't do any drugs. So that's a good thing. My daughter loves like some pretty hardcore hip hop where they're just, I mean, dude, I, you know, I don't even know, like that's how old and out of it I am. But like, it's all about like, smoking weed and like the bitches and like, and she's like a very strong convicted person. Like I don't worry about her. She's a, she knows what she wants out of life.

And like, she doesn't take any shit from anyone. And like, she's got her stuff together in anyone. And like, she's, you know, got her stuff together in a big way, but I'm like confused. Yeah. Like, why are you into this like misogynistic, you know, kind of music? And like, you don't understand.

Like, it's the same thing, right? Yeah. I mean, I love Snoop Dogg. I never smoked weed. I love gangster rap. I've never been arrested. I never, you know what I mean? So that kind of, I like a lot of hard stuff too. It doesn gangster rap. I've never been arrested. I never, I never, you know what I mean? So that kind of,

I like a lot of hard stuff too. It doesn't mean that I think I'm hard or I think I should be like them. I appreciate, appreciate their story and their message, where they come from, uh, the music, the beat,

the lyrics. That's how much, I mean, I love hip hop, but obviously I don't, I didn't grow up in the way certain rappers did, but I respect it and like it. So she might be like,

I get this vibe. It's coming from a different perspective and a different community in life. I don did, but I respect it and like it. So she might be like, I get this vibe. It's coming from a different perspective and a different community in life. I don't know. I mean, it's weird how the kids are connected to some really crazy hip hop, man. Like really like violent and- It's weird also how in the Me Too era, like all of that stuff somehow gets a pass. Yeah. Like why aren't we like up in arms about some of that stuff? It's true, but it's been going on for so long too, like with two live, all that stuff. Just like how Snoop gets to smoked up wherever he goes,

like it's just their grandfathered in or something. Yeah, maybe. I don't know what it is. Grandfather phone plan. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. It's just part of his persona, it's part of who he is. I mean, it's interesting.

It's weird, right? Yeah, everywhere I go, I have a green juice. Where my green juice? One of the things that I do worry about with the phones and the technology and all of that, and I'm interested in your perspective as a creative person is it seems like you have to really have discipline and erect boundaries around these things is it seems like you have to really have discipline

and erect boundaries around these things in order to find like the internal time to kind of tap into that creativity. Like you got, in order to be an expressive person, you have to allow yourself to be bored, right? Yeah. We no longer- Inspired. Never have to be bored again. We're always entertained.

And I feel like that, and I see this in my own self, like that can be a barricade or a block to actually tapping into the things that, you know, are percolating under the surface that I want to express. But if I'm just scrolling all the time, standing in lines or whatever, like I never get to connect with that. And when you have a younger generation that's coming up

that doesn't know what it's like to have those kinds of experiences, what is that gonna look like 10 years from now, 20 years from now, in terms of the kind of art that's gonna get created? I know it's scary because I saw like when Kanye West was doing his record, he like totally turned off and went to Montana or something

like to get away from all that. And I think that's what people have to do is to turn off their phones. Yeah, and go to some secluded area and try to get inspired from all that. And I think that's what people have to do. They have to turn off their phones. Yeah. And go to some secluded area and try to get inspired. But for me, I don't know if I could go to some woods and try to get inspired to write a song. I don't know. I like the energy of the people around me.

I like living and being involved in things and being inspired like that. Well, life enriches art, but that's different from being addicted to your screen. I know. I feel like kids now, they click through and they say, oh, I wanna be like that or sound like that or look like that. And that's how they get inspired. They kinda wanna kinda copy it. I don't know.

The originality is kinda. But there's a difference between consuming that content and it's fine to be inspired by certain people versus using those devices to create because they're also super powerful for that. Like you see kids that are 12 years old that could like edit a feature movie. Yeah, that's true.

That's true. That's crazy, man. And think about all the photographers now maybe losing jobs and money because phones are just, right? You take photos with that. Like all the photography is on phones and just the different things you can do with the phone.

They don't really have to have an education for, a skill for, and just, I don't know. Yeah, man. I haven't wrote a record in a while, but when I do, I definitely don't get inspired by my phone for sure. I start just writing stuff and go in my backyard and my picnic table and just start writing ideas and things that I want to sing about and what I'm inspired about. How does that process look for you? I just write down. Basically, when I write songs, I take a notebook like that, and I just write down these things that I'm feeling or thoughts, or even like an idea, like I'm going to write a song about skating or this and that,

and just write it and just start writing stuff. And then I put it all together and make it sound right. You know what I mean? I just write, and then I try to put everything together and make it make make sense um but yeah i just think about things i'm going through a life is for me it's like i don't know if i'm gonna make another record we did our record like i don't know four years ago and it was like i felt like that was like one of our last records and we never forced records like we've been together 25 years and maybe have six albums that's really bad for a band's career that's not a lot of records um so i feel like we make records when we're inspired. Some bands just put records out every year

so they can go tour, but we don't do that. We just wait to inspire. But I have been really inspired to really write about things, I feel like. But you still tour like every year, right? Yeah, touring's different for sure. We have like a catalog of songs and we're celebrating 25 years this year.

We're celebrating 20 years of one of our other records. So every year we have an anniversary, which is awesome when you become an older band you can go and go on these tours and celebrate those like summer festivals and all that like what are some of the good places where you have huge fan base um europe's amazing south america is incredible that's our biggest places is europe and south america is great it's just been oversaturated with bands for many many years we have great places and we play in the u.s but it's not like it is in Europe and South America and Southeast Asia. Would you have thought that like hardcore would still be kicking it like this, this many years after? I never even thought about that. And I have friends who have been in bands

for like over 30 years and they still kill it. And they tour full time. They're older than me. They're still great live and they still make it. They tour full time. They're older than me. They're still great live. They still make records and people still care. And it's an amazing genre of music, man. There's something about hardcore punk that it just goes for generations and generations and nobody has to be selling millions of albums or on television.

It's just this underground family. And you're very lucky. You can make your living. You can make your way. Totally. It's crazy. Yeah, I'm very lucky. The festivals in Europe are amazing.

And the thing about Europe is they stack a festival. So it could be like H2O, Wu-Tang Clan, Agnostic Front, Cro-Mags. It could be all these bands together on one festival that would never happen in America. Yeah. It's crazy. In Czech Republic or in Belgium, I end up playing with my friends mostly overseas than I do in America because you cross paths with them all summer long. It's really awesome.

I checked the schedule. Oh, I'm gonna play with those guys, those guys. It's really cool. You've toured with some big bands though over the years. Yeah, we definitely, we did some great tours with some diverse, poppier bands. Yeah, like I remember, what's that band? 30 Seconds to Mars was opening up for us

on one of the tours we did before they blew up with the used and did Boxcar Racer, Newfound Glory, Blink 182, Rancid, the Mighty Boss Tones. They took us on our first couple of tours. Wow. Yeah, I'm very lucky. On that note of like, you don't have to be the biggest band in the world

if you have like just a devoted fan base and you can like make a living and do your thing, the 30 Seconds to Mars guys really like figured that out. Like how to just go direct to their audience and not worry about, you know, billboard and like record companies and all that kind of stuff. And one of the things that they do, maybe you know about this or have been to it,

they do this annual thing called Camp Mars. Yeah, I heard about that. You heard about that? Yeah, I watched your doc too. It's right down the street here. They rent out like this camp, campground. I think it's like a former like YMCA camp or whatever. And for a couple of days, like an extended weekend,

they open it up to like their hardcore fans who come from like all over the world who get to like live in these cabins for a couple of days. Oh, wow. And the band is like there and they perform at night and they're kind of available and they hang out. That's awesome. And they have cool people come in and speak

and it's all very like positive and there's no like, there's no booze. It's like totally clean. And it's just like, they're hardcore people that like love them. And then they do like basically these like private concerts for them at night and they film it and they make little movies out of it

and stuff like that. But I was like, that's, that's the future. Yeah. That's really cool. Like a personal is hang with them. Yeah. That's awesome. And just be like, we don't need all that other, all the machinations of the industry.

Like we have our people that love us and let's like take care of them. Yeah. They were really cool. There's, there's a story that I think they'll never forget. Two stories is that one during, during that tour with them, my guitar player stole one of the tour buses while the bus drivers were sleeping in the hotel. And us and 30 Seconds to Mars and all the bands crammed into the bus.

And we drove to Bam Margera's house for like a party that night. And Rusty, my guitar player, was driving the bus. And we came back to the parking lot. And all the bus drivers were standing there in the parking lot, so bummed. And another thing is that we're about to play in new york city and this is when 30 seconds to mars was like blowing up and growing and they asked us a favor they said do you mind if we play after you in new york and that's like a big favor to ask especially with that's our hometown and we were like sure so we let them it was a no big deal for us we knew we're gonna have a good show they have

a good show but i think they never forgot that that we let them play after us because their label was going to be there. And I really, that was, that was a really good time. And every time I see them, they're always so awesome to me and stuff. And it was cool. And then I haven't seen them after they like blew up after that. It was pretty amazing though. What's the, what is the day to day like reality of like, you know, being like a hardcore punk, you know, rock and roller versus like, you know, what someone imagines it might be, you know? I don't know, man. It's the same thing you say about rock and rollers too.

You think that these rock and rollers are like partying all day and stuff, but the hardcore do is a totally opposite. Yeah, like you've been married for a long time. All you do is talk about like how much you love your wife and your kid, you know? Yeah, so I just, for me, for my daily life is I hike every day. I eat every day. I work out. I do my online sales. much you love your wife and your kid you know yeah so i just for me for my my daily life is

i hike every day i eat every day i work out i do my i do my online sales work on my podcast i book all the tours come up i design all the merch for all the tours like me and adam my bass player been managing the band for over 10 years we do everything diy and uh yeah i go to bed like at 10 o'clock at night i'm, right. My wife stays up later than I do. People think it's not what people think it is, especially even rock and roll. But I honestly feel like John Joseph and all of us hardcore dudes,

everybody's eating salads and green stuff and we're stretching before we play. John's like chanting Hare Krishna. Yeah. It's totally not what people think it is, man. Especially just musicians in general, people think it's this man. It's especially just musicians in general. People think it's this glamorous, wonderful. You go to Europe all summer to the festivals,

but the traveling is brutal. Those 23 hours until you get to play, like trying to find food in a town, getting sleep, you're jet lagged, but you have that 45 minutes to an hour every night just to give it everything you got. That's the best part of tour. But there's other 23 hours

where you're not with your family can be really dark and depressing. Luckily for FaceTime and this phone, which is a powerful thing, it changed everything for touring, having FaceTime to call your family. That's amazing. But touring is not all glamorous, especially when you're older. Even if you're a vegan, you're in great shape. It doesn't matter, man. It's just the strenuous of touring and having that energy. So yeah, and when I'm home, I'm just chilling. I'm so lucky when I'm home. I do everything out of my house.

I don't have to leave my house. I go to my only crossroads. I go to my little spots. I do my running. I stay in my little PMA bubble and just do my little rounds and take my birds. I like taking the birds around. You have birds?

No, those little bird things, those little bird scooters. Oh, the bird scooters. Yeah, I like them. My son take those. Yeah, No, those little bird things, those little bird scooters. Oh, the bird scooters. Yeah, I like them. Even my son take those. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I do live in this. I do find myself guilty of living in this PMA bubble of everything's wonderful and we're all love each other.

And I don't really look at the news that much. I check out Vice from time to time. But in my world, in my community, as long as I know my friends and my family are good and I'm trying to like, you know, I go to the vigils, the pig vigils and do that. I try to do my part, but I do live in this little world that one day everybody's going to be all united and wonderful, like a perfect Benetton ad.

We're all going to be together and it's going to be like this. Like I do, it's not, I do live in a little fantasy world that I'm guilty of that. Like- Well, you can't be PMA and not be optimistic. Totally. But you can't be Pollyanna either. Yeah. I know my wife's like, I'm a realist and you're this. So yeah, I just, yeah, my day in life was just... Do you go to shows? Yeah. I went to a show

last week and I actually sang a song with Gorilla Biscuits, one of my favorite bands. I did a minor threat song with them at two of their sets at the Roxy. It was awesome. So that was fun. Went to Sarcroma. I see my boys when they come to town. I go to their shows. But I also go to bigger shows with my son.

I took him to see Travis Scott, and that was crazy. It was a mosh pit. People were diving. I looked at my son. I go, why is there a mosh pit here? He goes, why? There's one at your show. And I had no answers for him. I'm like can't believe it's a mosh pit here he goes why there's one at your show and i had no answers for him i'm like okay that's a generation like yeah there was so i'd go to like katie i love katie perry she like signed my finger i have a kpm crazy oh wow um so um i go like these

other bigger shows with my son and just check those vibes out i like going to concerts uh-huh um yeah i'm out and about i do my thing you know what did what did max think your son think about going on tour with you? I mean, his first tour, he was super young. It was Japan twice. He was like three and then six. I have to take him back to Japan. He can appreciate it now.

But yeah, he's been to South America. He's been to Ireland. He's been everywhere. He loves it. Now I'm making him work. Before, he was a little kid. Now it's like, yo, you need to get the towels, the water. I'm making him work for his per diem. He's got to hustle now. He he knows it and he plays one song for night he's like where's my money i play one song so he he loves seeing the world and like

obviously i don't think that our parents were happy that we're taking our son on tour but it's like this is what happened to me when i moved to new york i got to see the world at a very young age and it opened my mind to see different cultures. It made me who I am today. To be able to bring Max on tour at this young age and see the world and play live, it's amazing that I can be able to do that with even the band. I'm not even in a big band.

The fact that I can take him to have that experience, he loves it. He looks forward to it. He's 16 now. We're going this summer. I'm not sure if when he's 17 I'm going to be cool enough to go on tour. This one's a 21-day one. It's a really really big one he's so psyched and i always plan his tours a week after he gets out of school so he has like a week with his friends and then i take him away for the summer but yeah i'm lucky to do that he loves it man it's definitely made him a more rounded human well to see the world in that way yeah what a unique cool experience yeah

the different cultures different foods and just the people people. Does he have a sense of what he wants to do? Man, he's an amazing drummer. He only wants to play music. He's exactly like me. When I was his age, he does not like school. He's struggling with his grades and the things that he doesn't care about. He does great in science and history.

He's in a magnet program. So the band recorded, they have an Adidas Sound Lab, which is amazing. They record their first single. They have a manager who's in 11th grade at their school. They're on the school label. The band played two shows. It was packed. I don't even know what's happening. He's an incredible drummer and that's what he wants to do. So I got to support it, man. He just- I love that their manager's in 11th grade. I know. He calls me on the phone, asks me it's like it's crazy so he's exactly like me i was i was into music and escape when he's exactly like me it's so scary but i'm like listen you have you have two more years left you

just have to get out of school you just have to graduate i'm only asking for c's man b's and c's this i just get out i've been there just get out get through the school and then we'll figure out what you want to do like it's hard because i and he knows because i obviously he knows everything about me he's like well i remember you got these grades and you i'm like but that's me you're different i want you to be a better better who i don't know a better example of what i was like it's just but it's hard when like i know exactly what he's going through man he's playing air drums on the table he's just like yeah drummers they're just they come out that way man you know yeah identify it right away and you're like oh that's a drummer i know so it's it's oh it's interesting you played a school concert last week and it was all like

just girls singing amazing singers at school and then i'm standing in the crowd and then i hear kids going his band's called ren they're like ren's up next and all the kids are running into this room and they're starting like mosh pits at a school musical thing like they're in next to me like slam dancing for my son's band and then three of his teachers came that he's not doing so good in the classes and they said to me they go i get your son now i totally get it they saw how amazing of a drummer he was and they're realizing why he's such a spaz and they know that he's like maybe on this path to be a musician uh-huh and i got to meet them and then one of the one of the two is like yeah i like black flag and husker dude he's such a spaz. And they know that he's like, maybe on this path to be a musician. And I got to meet them. And then one of the, one of the teams was like,

yeah, I like black flag and Husker. He was trying to bond with me about punk. It was really cute. And then, but I see that he's on this musical path and like, he's an incredible drummer and, and they get it now.

Yeah. Cause they only seen Max in the classroom, you know, like. It's uncle Travis giving him some tips. Yeah. Travis has for sure. For sure.

Travis gave him his first cowbell actually, he has a cowbell. And Mackie from the Cro-Mags is another one to really tell him a lot of really great staying in the pocket and the rhythms. And he's got all these people around him, the new musicians. I'm not surprised at what's happening, you know?

That's pretty cool. Yeah, it's pretty, I'm pretty lucky, man. And we'll see what happens with, everybody needs a drummer, you know? It's not going out of style. It's not going out of style. But usually the drummer is the guy who's trouble. It's true.

Yeah, it's true. When he's not, he's like totally like, he's just like, it looks like a model playing the drums. Like he's just, it's cool, man. But yeah, the grades thing is a little stressful and just gotta make it through, man, because I've been there. Yeah.

But that modeling of being the example for your kid and kind of walking the talk, I think is like the key thing. Like there's, look, like you said, like none of us are perfect, but we can't tell our kids to do one thing and then behave differently. Like those things have to be in alignment and you've got to create enough trust

so that they feel safe and they have the willingness to come to you and be honest. Because I feel like when kids start to get into adolescence, like the walls start to come up and then you got to work like extra hard to make sure that channel stays open because it will close so easily if you're not like, you know, on top of it. Yeah, he came up, he came home a couple weeks ago and said, can I get a hand poke tattoo?

I was like, first of all, you're 16 and these kids are giving tattoos in the back of the classroom now. It's like a trendy thing to give hand poke tattoos. I heard about this. Even on girls. And I'm like, listen, you can have any tattoo artist in the whole world. Look at me. Just ask me anything. You have to wait till you're 18 but he's like my friends get him at 16 i'm like oh i'm not your friends i'm not your friends you know but i can't say you can't get

tattooed obviously but i'll take you to a shop when you're 18 like i did and you get a professional tattoo and like but because all the kids are doing the hand pokes he's like we forget one little one i'm like no but at least he's asking me. You know what's even cute? He'll be like, he's gonna be so embarrassed. I'm not even talking about this. Like he'll text me, go, all my friends are skipping seventh period. Can I skip seventh period?

He'll ask me permission to skip a class, man. Oh man, I just got emotional thinking about that. None of these kids are asking their parents if they can skip a class. They're just skipping the class. And that open channel of communication is so much more important compared to whether he's gonna skip that class or not.

A hundred percent. The fact that he's asking me like in cares, if I'd be bummed, I'm like, sure. Like what class is that? What's your grade in that class? Like, it's crazy. Cause I know that no other kids are having that conversation. No. And so I never want that communication. And I want, it's such a strong bond me and my son have, I know we're not gonna be together forever. And that reality for me is really, it's a hard pill to swallow because I know he's 16. I know a couple of years he's gonna be 18.

I know my mom kicked me out when I was 17. I'm never kicking my son. He can stay there till he's like in his 20s. But separation is natural. It is. And he needs that. Yeah. You know, at some point. I know.

I saw something similar the other day saying like, we don't own our children. Like they're with us now, but we don't own them. They get to leave and just, it's crazy because I want that bond forever. And I'm sure it's going to be a different bond, you know, a distant bond, whatever. But I'm so lucky to be parents, man, you know? Why start a podcast? Because everybody's been telling me to start a podcast for years.

And all my friends have them. You can definitely talk. And all my friends have them and i know i feel like i started too late but it's been so therapeutic man like the way i'm doing it in chronological order of my life and interviewing every single person that's met me up until now like i'm sitting on like 50 episodes done wow like it's been so awesome to have these conversations and like especially with my mom and digging up stuff about my dad and my brothers like we none of us had therapy, we all need therapy 100%.

That's a different story, but it was very therapeutic to start that way and then getting to all my friends and start talking to them. And it's been interesting, man, to have these conversations. And I don't know why I started doing it and it's been really fun.

Yeah, why did you start one? That's cool. I started it, well, first of all, I started 2012. You're old school. No one was doing it, you know? Like it was not, I say this all the time, but like it definitely was not cool to have a podcast back then.

It wasn't like people were clamoring to start one. And you know, when you told people you had one, they just looked at you strangely. So it's odd and I never would have predicted that it would become like this medium that people would wanna be involved with. But I will say that I got into it because I was an early adopter as a consumer of the meat.

Like I've gotten trained for these races. I'd be on my bike like all day. I can't listen to music. So many audio books at the time. So I started listening to podcasts and I was like, holy shit, there's like incredible information here for free. That's like, why isn't everybody listening to podcasts and I was like, holy shit, this is like, there's like incredible information here for free. That's like, right, why isn't everybody listening to this? So I really enjoyed it

and it really enriched my life at that time. And I've been evangelizing it ever since and been frustrated that more people couldn't understand like what I was experiencing. And a part of that was because the technology wasn't seamless enough for people to make it easy for them because you would have to download them on your laptop and then bounce it to your iPod.

This is like pre iPhone. So it was like, you had to really kind of like wanna do it. But I started it just because I'd written a book and the book did its thing. And then when that was done, it was like, all right, well, what's next? And I was like, well, I can start a pod. Nobody was really doing anything all that compelling

in the health and fitness sector. And it was an opportunity to kind of continue the conversation that the book started. And I was like, I know some interesting people. But kind of like you going to New York, like I was like, I did an episode. It wasn't like, I'm gonna bank all these episodes and here's my strategy

and this is how it's gonna be a business. No, I was like, I just turned a mic on and my wife and I had a conversation. I was like, that's cool. Let's do it tomorrow. But when I did it, I didn't know if there would be a second episode. I didn't really know what I was doing.

And I did it for years before it became a thing that actually, you know, I could make money off of to like, you know, support my family. So it started for, I feel like I started for the right reasons. Yeah. And it's kind of remained true to what it always was from the beginning, which is an opportunity for me to just connect with people

that inspire me in different ways and learn from them. Yeah. And what's been cool about it is that so many of these people then become my friends, you know, and my advisors and people that are like in my life, which has been like the greatest gift of the whole thing. Plus it gives me an excuse to like call people up like you and go, Hey, you got to drive to my house and I'm going to hold you hostage for the afternoon. I love it though. Yeah. It's really, it's really been fun having conversations

and talking to people, getting to know people. Yeah. I didn't expect it to go the way it's going to. It's doing pretty well for how long it's been out. Well, the chronology thing is cool. Let's start at the beginning and just work through your life and all these people that have impacted you. Yeah, it's been really fun, but it's kind of hard tracking people down. I don't like doing the ones over the phone, but I have to do because people are spread out. But yeah, it's been interesting to hear people's stories and how we met

and then stuff we've evolved in together. Didn't want to be John. I can't wait for that one to come. Yeah, it's been really, really fun. I have such a diverse group of people too, like skaters and actors and with John. I can't wait for that one to come. Yeah, they didn't. Yeah, it's been really, really fun. I have such a diverse group of people too, like skaters and actors and musicians too, just like you and just to talk to people. It's been really fun.

But the reason why I did a bunch in advance because I'm gonna be touring all summer and I know how this is gonna go. If I was even gonna keep doing the podcast, but now they have them ready, I can just go on tour and not worry about it. That's what's cool about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's cool.

But it's fun to get to know people. Yeah, man. Have you done one with Brolin? I'm going to do one. You got to do one with that guy. I'm going to do one with him, yeah. OG, OG Dogtown. How did you become friends with that guy?

I love following him on Instagram. He's awesome, man. His posts are unbelievably amazing. He's amazing, man. I met him outside of Crossroads, actually. He wasn't even going to Crossroads. I was with my friend, my friend, Luke Westman, and he had his lowrider out there.

And he was taking photos in front of the lowrider. And we just met that day. And then, I don't know if I followed him. He followed me. We started following. Then I hung out with him a couple times since. And he's awesome. We text all the time.

He hit me up today. He's doing great things. He comes from the dog town, old school community. He was in a band called RKO. He played drums. He was a punk rocker. Comes from the same scene. It's pretty awesome.

I mean, he's like an artist and a poet trapped in a movie star's body. I know, man. His writing is incredible. So incredible. So humble. So nice. I'm so happy from all the stuff he's doing, the superhero stuff, like killing it. He's a super cool dude.

And he's very grounded. I love that. But yeah, I mean, it comes from the art world. It's pretty crazy. I didn't even know that. I didn't even know that about him. That's what I meant about the RKL thing, Rich Kids on LSD, the little punk band.

Yeah, he's written about it a little bit. Yeah. I've seen it. It's pretty cool. He's good people, man. He's good. It's good to know somebody like on that level of talent and in Hollywood, it's like one of us.

It's really cool, man. He just seems, he's got his wits about him in the right way. Yeah. And when you see, like when you read his stuff and you kind of follow him, you can't help but like root for him. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Dude, his writing is so amazing, man. I know. You gotta get him on here, we'll get him on here. Well, what about a book for you, man? You got a book in you. Yeah, I was thinking that this podcast is almost like an audio book

of the book I haven't written yet. I just feel like, I think that might happen when I get a little bit older. I might down to do that. I could see myself doing some, I don't know, man, it'd be cool. But this podcast definitely helped those stories and helped me focus on that.

I started writing one maybe like a year ago, just writing different chapters and stuff, but I'll do one. Yeah, cool. It'd be cool. Well, I different chapters and stuff, but I'll do one. Yeah, cool. Be cool. Well, I wanna land this plane, but I can't let you go without kind of leaving some parting words

for somebody who's listening, who's out there, who feels stuck. Maybe they're in that cubicle job or they're living a life that they feel like they didn't even consciously choose for themselves and they're just having trouble accessing that font of positivity that seems to come so natural to you,

or they're feeling, you know, creatively stymied or, you know, powerless in their life. And somebody who, you know, spends a lot of time, like connecting with young people and encouraging them and trying to be, you know, this sort of receivership for positive energy and possibility, like how do you speak to that person? I mean, I would say first and foremost,

look up Napoleon Hill, read Think and Go Rich, success to a positive mental attitude. And I feel personally that I was in crappy jobs too before everything changed for me. I was working in mailrooms. I was working with asbestos, building the sound factory in Manhattan. I was doing a bunch of stuff that I was so miserable doing that I just,

one of the last ones I did was like, I can't do this anymore. There's something I really want to do. I just went for it. I feel like nobody's really trapped in a miserable job. You just always like, you always have opportunities to do something else. Nobody's forcing you to do that. I know people have bills and families and they're, and they're going through a lot of stuff, but everybody goes through stuff. And I feel like you just gotta, it's so corny and cliche to say like, believe in yourself and push through it.

But like, I'm living proof that you don't have to do something. Like I was doing stuff just to get by and I wasn't happy doing it before I was a roadie and stuff. And I just feel like you just got to believe in yourself and push through and realize that you don't have to. It's about being happy. We're only here temporarily. And this is like this could end tomorrow. And being happy and loving your life and being healthy, it makes everything so much better. Your perspective on life so much better. It's easier said than done, granted.

But I feel like if you're working at a job and you're miserable, you got to quit that job. You have to leave that job. You have to take a chance. One life, one chance. That's my motto. You have to take a chance and try to do something you love. Like my band wasn't supposed to make it. My band was a total joke. I wasn't a singer. We had so much backlash when my first band started, but we kept doing it because we believed in the message we were doing. We believed in everything we're doing. And because of that, it worked. And if you just believe in yourself and say you're at some job and you believe you want to do something else, just do it. Do it now. Don't wait. Don't

procrastinate because life could be over tomorrow. And I do live in the moment a lot and I don't really think about the future a lot, which is a bad thing, but- It's worked out okay for you. It's worked out okay for me, but there's no reason to be miserable. There's no reason to be miserable in a job and hate what you're doing. Somehow you got yourself in that position. There's no reason to be miserable. There's no reason to be miserable in a job and hate what you're doing. Like somehow you got yourself in that position. There's a way to get yourself out of that position. Nobody forced you into that position.

If you guys understand what I'm saying. So you have all the power to do what you want to do. You might not get there right away. You might have to work for it and maybe work at a different job to get into the space you want to be in. But just don't give up. Believe in yourself.

It all sounds corny and cliche, but I'm a 49-year-old man who's been doing everything I love almost my whole entire life because I never gave up and I believed in myself when other people weren't believing in me. And that's the key to a happy life

is doing what you love, I think. And so get yourself out of that job and try something else and push yourself and don't give up and don't quit. That's all I can tell you to do. Thank you very much. Boom.

I think you just put a punctuation mark on the podcast. Perfect way to end it, my friend. Thank you, man. Thank you, thank you. Yeah, that was epic. Thank you for having me. I'm honored to be here, man. I'm honored to meet you in real life.

Super cool. Psyched to hang out with you after this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely, man. More will be revealed and to be continued. Come back and talk to me anytime, man. It'll be awesome. I look forward to getting to know you even better. Thank you, Rich.

Toby Morse, you're an inspiration. Appreciate you. Thank you. Can I plug my podcast? Yeah, of course. One Life, One Chance podcast. That's it. There you go.

It's everywhere. And at Toby Morse on all the social media channels. And it's onelifeonechance.com for the nonprofit, correct? And I want you on my podcast too. And yeah, anytime, man. You have to come to Hollywood. Well, I'll have to be the last episode because I'm the most recent person that you've met.

So you're gonna come to Hollywood too. It's gonna be season 20 or something like that. Next year, yeah. I'll come to Hollywood anytime. Also, Toby's got amazing, super cool merch. So if you want to find that, it's htomerch.com, right? Yes. Cool.

Yep, thank you. Anything else coming up you want to plug or anything? It's our 25th anniversary. H2O will be on tour all summer in Europe. We plan all around the States. We have a secret surprise show May 18th in Los Angeles. I don't know when this is coming out. Super secret.

I'm going to have you there. Yeah, just look up on our website, look on our Facebook, which is H2O Family. And yeah, we're around. You can find us everywhere. Thanks to these phones, the social media world. All right, peace and plants, my friends. Peace and plants.

We're out, bye. That was awesome. Right on, we did it. How'd that one land for you? He's a super cool guy, right? I really dug that. Really enjoyable to talk to Toby today. Hope you guys

enjoyed it. Please check out the show notes on the episode page to extend your experience of Toby and immerse yourself in his world by exploring all of the links that we put together there for you. We put a lot of time in that, so check it out and let Toby know how this one landed for you by sharing your thoughts with him directly. You can find him on Twitter and Instagram at Toby Morse. And check out his podcast, One Life, One Chance. If you'd like to support the work we do here on the podcast, just tell your friends about the show or your favorite episode. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, on YouTube.

Leave a comment on YouTube, Google Podcasts, wherever you listen to this. And you can support the show on Patreon by going to richroll.com forward slash donate. I appreciate everybody who worked together to put this show on today. I certainly do not do this alone. Jason Camiolo for audio engineering, production, show notes, interstitial music. Blake Curtis and Margo Lubin for videoing today's show. Blake doing double duty as an audio engineer today as well. Jessica Miranda for graphics. Allie Rogers for portraits. And DK for advertiser relationships.

Oh, yeah. Theme music by Annalama. Appreciate all of you out there. I can't do this without you. And I do not take your attention for granted. So I will see you back here in a couple days with an amazing conversation with singer, songwriter, musician, author, performance artist, so many other things.

The one, the only, the great Amanda Palmer. It's an awesome conversation. You're not gonna wanna miss it. So until then, PMA all day, people. Peace, plants. Namaste. Thank you.