The Rich Roll Podcast - Tony Hawk Is Still Killing It At 50: Do What You Love & Live Outside Your Comfort Zone

Episode Date: August 20, 2018

Tony Hawk was age 9 when his older brother gave him a blue fiberglass skateboard, chipped and scratched from years of use. The first time Tony stepped on it and rolled down an alley behind the family���s house in San Diego, there was no epiphany, no revelation, no foreshadowing whatsoever that he would go on to become the most famous skateboarder of all time. He reached the end driveway, looked back at his brother and shouted, “How do I turn?” The yarn is both sweet and innocent. But it's also deeply illustrative of the mindset — a unique melding of childlike wonder and unrelenting workmanship — that still drives the single most recognized and influential skateboarder of all time: Keep moving forward. Always be learning. Do what you love. And the rest will follow. The tale of The Birdman is legend. Icon status. A billion dollar video game franchise. A litany of successful brands. A family man and philanthropist. But the story behind Tony Hawk is hardly linear. And it's a legacy that — at 50 — he continues to build with the unabating persistence that drove his early success. There's no magic formula behind this man's triumphs. To be sure, he possesses talent — perhaps an unworldly one at that. But countless gifted athletes come and go. Rare and unique is the individual that can maintain a prominence measured not in years, but decades. Tony's long-term success in sport, business and life — through times both thick and thin — can be credited not to any shortcuts or life hacks, but rather to his unyielding devotion to a handful of tried-and-true, back-to-basics principles. Humility. Service. An indefatigable devotion to incremental progress. The courage to constantly take risks. The daring to continually live outside his comfort zone. The willingness to shoulder an unbelievable amount of hard work. And above all, a resolve to always, always do what he loves — because for Tony, life has always been about process over results and rewards. Let's face it. The Birdman has been interviewed a million times. He didn’t need to do my show. He doesn't have a new book out or any specific project he needs my help promote. Nonetheless, he drove several hours from San Diego for no reason other than to openly share his wisdom and experience — a simple act that speaks loudly to this man's humble character and dogged work ethic. In other words, Tony isn't slowing down. Just like that 9-year old trying to master his first turn, this is a man still looking forward to his next move. Expressing himself. Innovating. And curious about the world. It's an honor to share his story. Of course, we cover his career. And I did my best, as a fellow athlete of his age, to explore how he thinks about being 50; how he balances life as an athlete, businessman and parent; and how he continues to iterate and grow in sport, business and life. But below the surface, this is a conversation about the importance of uncovering and ultimately expressing who you really are. And it's about the joy and freedom brought about manifesting your most authentic self. Note: the full episode (plus a few short clips publishing later this week) is available in vivid technicolor on YouTube here: bit.ly/richandtony If you are digging the podcast (and my other short movies) on YouTube, it would mean a lot if you subscribed to my channel here: youtube.com/richroll Enjoy the episode! Peace + Plants, Rich

It was very weird because I was in this small community already considered an outcast because I skated. And then I was an outcast in that outcast community. I was shunned because of my style. And so that just set me up to prove myself further. What contributed to my success was that I was willing to go outside my comfort zone. And so I learned techniques in skating that I wasn't really interested in, but I knew it would help me be more well-rounded. And with that mindset, that helped me in business. That my friends is the great Tony Hawk. And this is the Rich Roll Podcast.

The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey, everybody. How are you guys doing? What's happening? My name is Rich Roll. I am your host. Welcome or welcome back. Thank you for showing up.

I appreciate you guys listening. I appreciate you for sharing the show with your friends and on social media. And hey, it's good to spend a little time with you today. hey, it's good to spend a little time with you today. Really quick up top, if you have enjoyed my recent live podcast episodes from our recent retreat in Italy, I wanted to let you guys know that our next retreat will be May 18 to 25, 2019. We are currently taking RSVPs now and it will sell out. And because I know everybody needs copious advance notice to think about and plan a trip like this, I'm putting it out there now. To give you a sense of the experience, it's super fun, but at times intense. It's a seven-day immersive deep dive into wellness and just an awesome time with a like-minded group of amazing people. We have

incredible food with a menu designed by Julie. We're going to trail run. We're going to meditate. We're going to engage in traditional tea ceremony. We've got workshops, special guests, cooking instruction, breath work, Ayurvedic treatments, on and on and on. And it's all going down at this beautiful villa and working farm in the Tuscan countryside. So for more information on that, on the whole affair and to reserve your spot, go to ourplantpowerworld.com. Oh yeah, Tony Hawk's on the show. Greatest skateboarder of all time. Do I really need to give you this guy's bio? You guys know him, right? The skateboard guy? I don't know. Maybe a few of you guys don't. So let me briefly run it down for you. Tony Hawk is arguably the single most influential

skateboarder of all time. He was born and raised in Southern California, and he's probably forgotten more tricks than most people learn in a lifetime. And his contributions to the sport are endless, including tremendous philanthropy and skateboarding's holy grail by becoming the only person to successfully land a 900, which is a big deal in the skateboarding world. But there are two things that really stand out for me in Tony's story. Actually, there's three. The first thing is, although he was always great, Tony didn't really actually pop on the mainstream as a skateboarder until he was in his 30s, which I think is really interesting. Second, he's now 50 and he's still out there

killing it. He recently did this video completing 50 of the tricks he's created over his 50 years. I'll link that video up in the show notes. And my point is that he continues to push himself and is really redefining how we think about this decade, how culture contemplates 50, how we age He's a parent to a whole bunch of kids. He actually brought his 11-year-old daughter to the podcast, which was very sweet. And an incredibly successful business person, entrepreneur, philanthropist, a guy who really has leveraged his talents and his profile to continually create. And I think this has a lot to do with the very unique way in which he navigates fear and thinks about risk. A couple more things I want to throw at you before we dive in, but let's take care of a little business. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time.

It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care, especially because unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices. It's a real problem. A problem I'm now happy and proud to share has been solved by the people at recovery.com who created an online support portal designed to guide, to support, and empower you to find the ideal level of behavioral health disorders, including substance use disorders, depression, anxiety,

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When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. Tony Hawk. Look, this guy's been interviewed a million times, a billion times. He didn't need to do my show, but he did. And how this whole thing came together is actually pretty interesting. Because honestly, I wasn't chasing him. His publicist reached out to me, which is a thing that started happening when the show

got big. I started getting solicitations from publicists. And usually this occurs when or because the famous client has a book coming out or something specific that they would like to promote. It's just the nature of how all this works. But not Tony. He didn't have anything he wanted or needed to push. He just wants to be part of the conversations that people are tuning into now, which I think is not only super cool

and interesting, but also speaks to his nature, his character as this guy who at 50 is not slowing down, who is always moving forward, innovating, expressing himself, and just genuinely interested in the world. So the whole thing was great. We cover his story, of course, and I did my best as a fellow athlete of his age to explore how he thinks about being 50, how he balances life as an athlete, a businessman, and a parent, and how he continues to push himself. And I think for Tony, it's all about the importance of finding your passion, of overcoming self-imposed limitations through this dedication that he has to continual progress over perfection.

Quick reminder for the visually inclined, the full episode is available in vivid technicolor on YouTube at youtube.com forward slash Rich Roll. So check that out and subscribe to the channel if you haven't already. Anyway, great dude, great talk. So here we go. I started it before it was cool to have a podcast.

Yeah, that's the best time to get in, right? Yeah, now there's so many of them, but it's been great, man, I love doing it. Oh, cool. Yeah, so it's been a long time. I started in the winter of 2012. Okay. So I'm up around, getting up around 400 episodes so far. Oh, that's great.

So it's good. I have a show on SiriusXM. We've been doing it for 14 years now. And it's funny because it's a radio show, but now when I get guests on, they all think it's a podcast.

Right. Like in the last year, that shift has been happening. That's definitely a seismic shift. It would have been the other way around. Oh, I did Tony X podcast. I was like, it's on the radio. You should bump it to a podcast also though. It feels like that's more prestigious now

to say it's a podcast. Yeah, so you've been doing that for a long time. How often do you do that? Well, it used to be once a week. Now it's about once every two weeks. Right. That's cool. Do you enjoy that? That's fun. I've managed to get a really good guest list. So that's been helpful. Super cool. Just one of 8 billion things that you're up to. Yeah. But that one has really been fun because I get to meet people that I've always looked up to or been interested in. Yeah, case in point right here. That's the greatest gift of this thing is I get to convince people like you to come and talk to me. So I really appreciate it.

Sure. I think the first thing I want to kind of dig into with you is just being 50. I'm 51. We're about the same age. I'm an athlete, very different kind of athlete. But I'm 51. We're about the same age. I'm an athlete, a very different kind of athlete. But I'm really interested in kind of how you think about what it means to be 50 and how that affects or doesn't affect what you do in your sport, how you think about your sport, kind of your daily routines, what you can and can't do, and the boundaries that you either place or don't place on yourself. Well, I never put ultimatums out there in terms of, if I reach this age, I can't do this anymore. So I feel like I was, I knew this was coming and I

knew it was a big milestone and I was trying to ignore it, but as it came and people started to put so much attention on it. Other people can't ignore it. Pretty much. Yeah. It was, it was other people that convinced me like you really are old. I mean, in terms of for what I do and I'm proud of that, you know, and, and for sure I, I, I am shifting my style and, and I do, you know, I don't participate in so many things. I don't do so many risky maneuvers or terrains that I used to. But I'm still found a way to do what I do and enjoy it and be progressive at it. So I feel like I've sort of been not forced to, but have chosen to change my style up so that I can continue to do it at this

age. And it definitely is what keeps me fit. I don't have a workout routine. I don't do yoga and stuff. As I know, I probably should. I probably will eventually, but- You'll get forced into it. At this point, yeah. Yeah, another thing I'm forced into by other people. But really, it's just been more about figuring out how to do this into this age or into this decade. Well, what's amazing is, I don't know what your experience is, but when I was a kid, when I was 14, 15 years old, the idea that somebody would be athletic in their 50s was insane. Well, with skateboarding, when I was a kid, you couldn't skate into your 20s. It just

wasn't an option because there was no career to be had for it. And it was considered this kid activity. So if you were skating past high school, it was like, what's wrong with you? Right. Like you have Imatel syndrome, like you've got to grow up Peter Pan. But even beyond skating in any sports

that anybody would even be doing anything remotely athletic into their 50s would would have been a radical concept in 1975 or whatever yeah it'd be a rare specimen of some guy that like ran a marathon that's amazing he ran a marathon right um but but that i guess just with our knowledge of of health and of um of of life and and what, I feel like that's what's changed everything in terms of the general society and the general acceptance of being fit. And being active at this age is what keeps you healthy. Of course, right? Yeah, there's definitely all these advances in nutrition and training techniques and the you know, the technology of whatever sport

you find yourself in. But I just feel like there's a, there's a, there's a, we're in a culture that allows us to explore this later in life that wasn't exactly that permissive back then. And so you're seeing older athletes pushing the boundaries and doing amazing things in their various disciplines, like across the board. and i think that's super cool yeah and i'm glad to be part of it i feel like i'm somewhat of a litmus test for how far you can take it uh there's plenty of people that are skating into their 50s and whatnot um but i feel like i'm i'm the one that's still out there sort of in public doing it and trying to prove that you can still be relevant you're you're the canary in the coal mine i think that's the distinguishing factor,

like being relevant at the highest level in your sport versus just remaining active. My latest obsession is this woman who is my oldest podcast fan. She's 96. And she went plant-based a year ago. And now she's on Instagram. She's got like 13,000 followers on Instagram. And she posts like her daily workout routines and and now she's on Instagram. She's got like 13,000 followers on Instagram and she posts like her daily workout routines and like what she's eating and stuff like that. And she has this following and it's like, she's doing, working out with bands and all this kind of stuff with a trainer. And I just find that to be so inspiring. She's 96. She's coming up on a hundred. Right. It's bananas. Well, that's a far cry from my mom is, my mom is 94, but she has dementia.

So yeah, she's not on Instagram. I'll tell you that. Yeah. Well, that kind of brings up another issue in sort of wrapping my head around, you know, how I wanted to approach this today and what I wanted to talk to you about. I reached out to our mutual friend, Steve-O. Oh, yeah. And I was like, because I don't know anything about skateboarding.

And I was like, Steve, like Tony's coming on. What should we talk about? And he told me that he had a super fascinating conversation with you about CTE or TBI, like the sort of impact of persistent concussions on brain health and the like. And he told me that you took some test at some point that allowed you to figure out whether you were more prone to sort of be susceptible to injuries like that. Yeah, well, it was by suggestion of my wife, I was trying to be proactive because obviously this problem is pervasive

and it's not just about ball sports, any sport where you can suffer concussions. And so, um, I had a, a pretty intense blood test. Uh, and what I learned is that I don't have the gene that makes you more susceptible to Alzheimer's. Um, and because of that, and then I went sort of down this rabbit hole of information and I found an expert who actually wrote a thesis in San Diego and she's a neurologist. And she said that if you don't have that gene,

that allows your brain to heal from concussions. If you do have that gene, generally you won't heal from concussions. And that is the key to cte is the idea that you're getting multiple concussions you have this gene that doesn't allow your brain to heal right right and i know i sound like some wannabe expert here but this is exactly how she explained it to me and she said because i have i don't have this gene i um am able to heal my brain from concussions and that's not to say that it wouldn't have this gene, I am able to heal my brain from concussions.

And that's not to say that it wouldn't have some effect on me later on because I've definitely had concussions within a short time period, one after the other, which is the recipe for disaster. But it definitely made me more aware and definitely more proactive in trying to stay safer and realizing mild concussions can be just as traumatic in a lot of ways, especially if they're repetitive. In rapid succession, yeah.

And so then after that, I actually went and had a cognitive test that I will continue to take every six months to a year to make sure I'm not deteriorating. Right. And I guess the irony there is if you do take those tests and you are deteriorating, there's not a lot you can do about it. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. I mean, Alzheimer's is, I mean, you're experiencing it firsthand, devastating. And I've had specialists on this show who are doctors in that field, and they're having some pretty remarkable results through diet and lifestyle. But in terms of like a medical protocol to reverse it or prevent it, they're really baffled still. Right.

Yeah. And I know all that going into it, and it's not going to change what I do. It just changes my approach a little bit. And it's not even that it makes me more cautious, it just makes me more aware and hypersensitive to any sort of head injury, even if it's the slightest. Yeah. If you had tested for that gene

and you found out that you had it, would that- That's a good question. Would that have changed anything for you? I think it would at least give me pause and also make me research better protection. But at this point, I ride for a helmet company that I firmly believe in, and I feel like it's the safest I can be on my skateboard

with this helmet on, triple eight. When did the helmets come in as mainstream? They haven't really come in. It's hard to explain. When I was young, I skated in skate parks, like designated in the late 70s. Pads were mandatory. You couldn't enter the park without full pads even sometimes with wrist guards so for

from my experience that's just how it was you had to wear pads and so pads were just the norm it wasn't until the sort of shift of street skating in the skateboarding culture that pads became

not cool or considered useless because kids are just skating down the street, going downstairs and whatnot like that. And then now there's a sort of blend because if you're skating the bigger stuff, the bigger ramps, the bigger parks, your pads are going to save your life. Your helmet is for sure. And knee pads for the most part, because that's the only way to get out of being way up in the air safely. But there's another mindset that is like, well, we just do this on our own terms and we don't wear pads.

And there's a – I don't want to say that there's a battle between those camps of thinking, but it's going to come to a head when skateboarding enters the Olympics. And there's a little sort of mix of both styles of skating. And I think some people will be wearing pads and some won't. And I don't know how that's going to play out. Yeah. It's a cultural thing, right? I mean, you're talking about a sport that is super unique and distinct from any other sport other than perhaps surfing,

where it's this strange mashup of true sport, physical activity, but also lifestyle, culture, and really art. Absolutely. And with that comes this ethos, right? That sort of emanates from punk rock and being counterculture and, you know, against the man and like wearing pads and all of that.

Exactly. So, you know, for me, I'm torn in that sense, because I do believe in the DIY sense of skating and the counterculture that it is, and it always was. But at the same time, I want people to live. I want them to survive another day. And I don't wanna encourage kids to do something that truly could destroy their lives. Yeah. Well, I saw that you tweeted out a couple times this fundraiser, I think it's actually happening today

in Minnesota for Dave Mara's kids. Dave Mara and Kevin Robinson. And Kevin Robinson, right. So I never knew Dave personally, but when he got into triathlon in a big way, like we became internet buddies and he did the race across America with some friends of mine. So we were sort of acquainted in that way. And it was just such a shock and a tragedy when he passed in the way that he did. I mean, such a shock and a tragedy when he passed in the way that he did. I mean, is there, do we know if concussions or head injuries had any sort of impact on?

I don't have any definitive information on that. I heard that he might've shown signs of CTE, but I don't want to spread rumors because I really don't have the direct knowledge of it. But it seems in terms of what we know about it now, and the kind of injuries Dave endured, it's very possible, yes. Right, yeah. Same with Kevin Robinson. I mean, Kevin Robinson,

he has some of the heaviest concussions I've ever seen in person. You know, the kind of stuff that he did where he fought, he was out and affected for long periods of time. And so that could have been played into that as well. Right. Well, on the subject of the Olympics, I mean, this is huge. This is pretty exciting.

2020, skateboarding making its debut. Were you involved behind the scenes in making this happen? I would assume this is decades. Yeah, I mean, I was definitely an advocate for it. I wasn't, I wasn't championing. I wasn't like, you know, holding, holding any, any sort of, um, big pushes, but, uh, but I do, uh, want it to, if it's going to happen, I want to see it happen with integrity. And I feel like I at least have a voice and, and some influence on that. Right. So I joined up with the ISF, International Skateboard Federation, which has now become WorldSkate.

And they are the ones who are sort of ushering it in and showing the IOC how to delicately handle the world of skateboarding, counterculture in a way that is presentable. Right. It doesn't mean it's going to change how we do it. It doesn't mean it's gonna change how we do it. It doesn't mean it's gonna change the format of competition, but definitely a way to make the sort of non-skating public understand what it is.

Right. Well, they've been able to do it with snowboarding, but you're talking about two different cultures. Snowboarding went through, if you don't remember it, when snowboarding was in Nagano, it was treated like the dark horse of the games because people were like, look at these kids, you know, they're punks. And the one guy tested positive for weed because he had a contact high or something.

Shocking. But also, but that was the whole vibe. Right. You know, that's what people came away from. And it was like, because of how the mainstream media was treating it. And they didn't realize that that's what the kids were watching. Like the kids don't want to watch ice skating anymore, you know, or any more speed skating. Like I appreciate all those sports, but how many swimming events do we need? Yeah. Well, when you say making sure that it's introduced with integrity, what I'm saying is what I was saying is that is the snowboarding

went through this, this growing pain because that, that happened. And then four years later, NBC figured it out. Well, you need a champion. You need somebody that everybody can rally behind. I don't even think it was the champion. I think it was they just realized that the youth was into these kinds of sports. For sure, Sean White was a big part of that. But what I'm saying is four years later, they realized that the only way they're going to get a youthful audience is by highlighting this youthful sport, which they did, obviously, and Sean was the breakaway star from that, but, but I feel like they wised up and I think that skateboarding won't have to go through that phase because skateboarding is already more popular than most

Olympic sports in the summer games. Right. So I feel optimistic about that. And there's a lot of pushback from the skate community. You know, we don't need this all corporate and this is mainstream's sanitized and whatnot. But the, you know, this is not the first time skateboarding has been a competitive sport. No, of course not. I started competing when I was 10 years old. Well, it's, it's kind of the crowning achievement or culmination of, of your legacy, which is in my mind, at least like ushering in this thing that you love into mainstream acceptance and embrace. I mean, there's nothing more like having it in the Olympics is kind of like the ultimate

in suddenly it being like ubiquitous. That's true, but I am a little torn because I feel that way in one sense, but in the other sense, I feel like we don't need the Olympics validation to know that we're legitimate, to know that the skateboarding is popular. It just is. And so there's a part of me that thinks that they need us more than we need them.

That's probably true. But at the same time, the silver lining is that skateboarding will reach a new audience in terms of other countries, other cultures where it's never been seen or even tested. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see the sort of downwave impact of that on kids like the kids you just met before here. met before here, like does seeing it in the Olympics inspire more kids to want to get into it? Or does that cut across what makes it appealing to them, which is that it's not part of that world and it's their own thing? I think that's twofold. I think for one, it'll encourage some kids to get into it who've never seen it before. And the other part of that is that it will encourage kids to get into it because they want to be a champion. And that was never the motivation in my generation. That's becoming more of the mindset, not across the board, but in a lot of ways,

there are kids that get into skating because they know you can be rich and famous as a skater. But also now you can be an Olympian. And sometimes that is the directive. But that's just how, that's just with any sport. Well, going back to like the beginning of your career, I mean, being rich and famous, obviously was never part of the mindset. It wasn't, it never had happened. It wasn't an option.

Yeah, I mean, but at the same time, you were kind of on the younger end of that Bones Brigade kind of generation of people. And my impression is that you came in with a little bit of a different mindset, a competitive mindset. And you didn't necessarily come from this, you weren't gonna grow dreadlocks

and be a super punk rocker. Like you were approaching it from a more methodical kind of champion mindset. It wasn't even to be champion. It was just more to prove myself, to be validated. The only way you could be recognized when I started skating was to compete. You were only ever rated on your competition rankings. No one was shooting video parts or doing big stunts for video.

Or even you wouldn't get coverage in the magazine unless you competed. So that was the only way that I could get any sort of recognition. And, and that was so, so my drive was to get better at competition, to get more well, well-rounded as a skater and to do that. And it was sort of only after 10 years of competition, I realized there might be other avenues and other ways to be a pro skater other than just competing. Was it really 10 years in? Because weren't you beginning to try these tricks and do things that were kind of different from the traditional competition framework? Yeah, it was. I think it was. So I started competing in 1979, 1980. And around 1989 is when the era of skate videos came into play. And I think that was when the shift started happening. And when I realized that I was able to document these really difficult moves that I wouldn't be doing in competition because they take too many tries to actually make one. doing in competition because they're, you know, they take too many tries to actually make one.

But I felt like there was this new outlet and this new mindset in terms of, of how people are being progressive. And so that was, that was what I chose to focus on for the most part, but, but I did still compete because you had to keep your, you had to keep that foot in the door because that still was the way to be rated. But at the time, the emphasis was on the competition side and you were like, there was a new wave of people doing what you were doing, but it was still kind of an outlier thing that wasn't exactly like,

hey, what are you doing over there? Like, you're not supposed to do that, come back over here. Yeah, I think it really wasn't until the popularity sort of fell out of favor in the early 90s is when there was a big shakeup in terms of skate style and skate culture because then all the skate parks closed for the most part. And the only people who skated were doing it

in places where they weren't allowed to do it, which meant street skating. And suddenly people started to realize that the urban landscape could be a skate park. Right. Is that when pool skating came in? No, I'm saying that's when pool skating came out. So like in the early 90s is when all the parks were closing up, right? Pool skating started in the late 70s. all the parks were closing up, right? Pool skating started in the late 70s.

And then skate parks in the 80s opened to emulate backyard pools. So all the skate parks that were the ones that I'm speaking of that were closing were ones that actually had pools in them, but were made for skateboarding. Right, I see. So then when those sort of dried up in the late 80s and early 90s, When those sort of dried up in the late 80s and early 90s, kids took to the streets and sort of created their own way to use the cityscape as a skate park, which meant stairs, handrails, benches, all that kind of stuff. And then they were marked as absolute outcasts and rebels because they were doing it in public spaces and, and really annoying the pedestrians. Yeah. So there was no, the competition framework went away. The competitions were still there.

Why did it all dry up in 91 or whatever it was? It was because it was a few different reasons because skating was cyclical. It was always like it had come into favor in the late seventies, fell out of favor in the early 80s came back into favor in the late 80s and then fell out again so that that was sort of it was something we we were in denial of but it was happening and kept happening and also in the late 80s liability was impossible liability liability insurance for skate parks. All the skate parks were private. And they couldn't afford the insurance.

And the way that the liability laws were for public spaces did not favor a sport like skateboarding. So public skate park couldn't exist. And in 19, I'm gonna to have the year wrong here, but I want to say it was somewhere around 1997, 6 or 7, the liability laws changed in the US where skateboarding was added to the hazardous activities list. And if you participate in skateboarding,

you assume your own liability. In the same way that you would rock climbing or skiing. Right. And that's when everything changed and people were allowed to have a public space, a public skate park without being monitored and kids were at their own risk. That's so interesting. I had no idea that it was really a change in the law that- That was it, yeah. And there was a law group that was fighting it. Yeah, I'm sure, right? Wow.

All right, so just working our way through your career up to this point, I mean, you go pro at 14, you start making all this money, you buy a house when you're still in high school, like you're doing great, like this whole career is opening up in front of you, you're the new rising star in the sport. Then 91, it kind of all goes away, right? And you're faced with this choice, go get a real job or like kind of join mainstream society. And I take it a lot of pro skaters at that time, that's what they did. There was no other choice. And you make this decision to like double down. You take a second mortgage out on your house

and you go all in at a time when everybody thought skateboarding was gone for good. So walk me through like how and why you make that decision because that's really the pivotal moment that created everything. Well, I saw, obviously I saw skateboarding's popularity waning, but also the company I was with

was sort of considered the dinosaur company because all these little companies started coming in and making a splash and doing things very rebellious. And as unique of a culture as skateboarding is, our Palo Alto was considered like the big corporate entity. It was like the Nike, even though skateboarding was a small industry. And so I decided I wanted to do my own company

because I wanted to sort of have my own aesthetics and have my own direction, but stay in the industry. And I thought that I was 24 at the time. I thought that my career as a skater was ending because I was still a vert skater. Vert skating was done. And it was all about street. done was done and it was all about street and i figured if i could get a good group of street skaters together you know ones that i i recognize and make my own team i could at least get by right that was the goal the goal was was to get by just because i love skating so much i wanted to be in the industry i wanted to to have control of a brand and that was it. And, and, and we were on a skeleton crew.

We were, I was doing all the marketing, all the ads, um, the team stuff, the tours, you know, I was doing, but not the skateboarding. I was skating too. That's, I guess that's the funny thing is I was always skating, but only cause I just enjoyed it. I wasn't skating to be a team rider, so to speak. I was just skating because I couldn't stop. A love, yeah. But I guess the main, the tipping point for us in terms of Birdhouse and us being successful was sometime around then,

around 1994, a a couple years in the other guys on the team said you're you're much more effective as a team rider and being out there skating than you are as a guy working on at the doing ads right yeah editing videos yeah and that's that's sort of held true throughout your career. Like, and do you feel that that is still wise advice for you at 50, that you still need to be on the board and out front and, and, and as much the ambassador as you are the, you know, sort of leading force behind Tony Hawk Inc? Um, yeah, but, but I have a great, I have a really good group of people that I trust. I trust their, um, aesthetics and their values. And, and so I have a team good group of people that I trust. I trust their aesthetics and their values. And so I have a team in place that I know the quality will always be there.

And yeah, sure, I want to walk the walk. I want to be relevant. I want to still be skating. But at the same time, I have evolved enough that I understand marketing and I understand videos much more than I did when we were starting. And it was kind of crushing to hear the team go, your ads kind of suck. Well, back then, I mean, what was... We couldn't afford to hire someone to do that. So I was the one who had to learn. I had to learn

QuarkXPress and Photoshop and do all those things because we couldn't afford to have anyone do it. But at the time, also, this was a brand new world. There was no like, here's how you do it to launch your skate brand. I mean, yeah, there was Peralta. This is when video is coming in and it becomes all about creating an aesthetic and a culture as much as it is about a product. Yeah, there was no template at all. And we were relying on, and it wasn't like our products were reinventing the wheel.

We were getting our stuff made where everyone else was. But it has to be the coolest. But it had to be cool. So we got a very iconic aesthetic going through one of our team writers that was an artist. And I collected what I thought was the best team at the time. And that's what carried us through. Right. And, and back then, I mean, who did you have mentors was Stacey Peralta? Stacey Peralta was definitely one of my biggest inspirations. In fact, you know, he was the one who, cause I had to come to him to tell him that I quit his team.

Yeah. And as, as much as he was upset by it, he said, look, I can't tell you not to do this. This is what I did. Because he was a GNS team rider and he left GNS to start Powell Peralta. And he's like, I can't, there's no way I could discourage you from going and chasing this dream

because that's exactly what I did. Right. And did he, was he helpful to you with early business? Like you're coming out, like trying to create a business at 24. As much as he could be, but, but, you know, you're competing against him. He couldn't encourage me to compete against him. Yeah. Right. Right. So was there a moment where you felt like, okay, it's tipping and it's starting to work? I mean, these are lean times, you know, you've talked a lot about like the $5 a day Taco Bell, you know, lifestyle that you on, the mortgage on the house.

I'm sure everyone was telling you, you're crazy. What are you doing? Yeah. And especially, I just had my first child. Right. Throw irresponsible in there. Yeah, maybe. But again, for the most part, I was the main caretaker of him.

So when I would go travel and stuff, he would just come with me by default. But definitely, we had to scale back on so many expenses. And at Birdhouse, my partner and I, Per Wielander, we kept taking pay cuts. And we kept doing the same with the riders. And it was becoming very... The outlook was bleak, but we hung in there to make it work. Right. I think a lot of people sort of want to know, well, why did you make this choice? And why didn't you just do what everyone else was doing? But from what I gather from you, it wasn't really a choice. You were going to do this.

from you, it wasn't really a choice. Like this is, you were going to do this. This skating was your life. You were all in from the get-go. Yeah. Is that fair? There were, I would say somewhere after the first three years of us being in business, yeah, like 1995-ish is when we had heavy discussions about closing shop.

Right. Because we just weren't, the profits were not just um, justifying the expenses and the expenses were very slim. Yeah. Um, and I started doing, I had some video editing equipment and so I started editing videos for other skate companies and even other entities because I at least knew how to put stuff together and I could do it cheaply. Um, but it was, I would say around 96, 97 is when things started really turning around. Right. And to the point where it got bigger than we had anticipated. And we were thankful because we were about to shut it down.

Right. And you were perfectly positioned because you'd been doing it for so long. You'd established credibility in this space. Yeah. So that when the law changed and then, when did the X Games? X Games were 95. Right.

It was probably the second year of X Games is when my, well, also just my name recognition was out there because I had had that through the 80s. And then it was a whole new generation and it was mostly parents that were seeing this and their kids were excited because they'd never seen skateboarding on tv and then their kids were like oh who's this guy tony hawk and then their parents were like oh i know tony hawk from you know the 80s yeah and so i luckily i sort of survived two generations of skating like that and and that helped quite a bit. And because of that, people were interested in Birdhouse. And then fast forward to 1999 is when our video game got released. And I had included, obviously, all of our brands in it because I was trying to get the exposure for it. But we had no idea that we were going to create a whole new genre of video games through doing that. No, I mean, it's the confluence of all of these things, some of which you had control over and many of which you didn't, that all came together in almost this divine timing to conspire to create what has transpired.

But during those lean times, did you hold on to this vision that it would become this big thing or was that as a surprise it was a surprise to me i was just trying to i was just trying to make a living you know i was not trying to get exponentially rich ever it was just more i wanted to keep skating i wanted to enjoy what i was doing and if i could provide for a family by doing so that was good enough right right and i still feel like so right Right. Yeah. Everything else, like all the, all the money and fame, it's all gravy and it's all obviously fun. But at the bottom line is I want to make sure that my kids are provided for and that I'm there for them. But the driving force beneath it is just your love for this, right? Like it's not, it was never about the

money and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Like all the, all the stuff that I've been doing, especially skating wise these days, I'm not, I'm not doing it cause I'm hoping that I'm, you know, hanging onto that thread of fame. I'm doing it cause I really love it. And I'm, I'm happy that people are interested in it, but I'm just doing it cause I, I would be doing it anyway. Like all the stuff that I'm doing, especially for skating and appearances that I get paid ridiculous amounts of money for, I would do for free. Yeah. Well, it's such a blessing and a rare thing for somebody to know very young not only what they're good at but what they love and to carry that through their whole life. But for a lot of people, people who are lucky enough to find something that they love when they're young, the sort of attrition of life wears that down and they end up becoming something else.

So to be able to hold on to that, I think, is maybe that's your greatest talent of all of this. Maybe, yeah. It might just be stubbornness. Yeah. Yeah, because I think people seem to ask you a lot, like, how do you become this successful business person and all that. And it's sort of like, it really goes back to- My path is not one that I can really say everyone can emulate it. And it's the one in a million that you get to do it on this level, absolutely.

Right. And something that was never considered legitimate. But there are lessons there in terms of perseverance and following your passion and quality control that I feel like I can convey it to other people. And fundamentally, a very healthy relationship with failure, which is inevitable if you're going to become a skater. From the get-go, you're meeting failure on a daily basis in a very physical and painful way. And if you can't develop a relationship, a healthy relationship with what it means to fall on your face, not only are you not going to make it as a skater, you're unlikely to persevere in whatever else it is that you're pursuing in your life. Yeah, absolutely.

And that carries through even to business decisions where I'm not really afraid to take risks. Right. I know that's what it takes to succeed. Right. Um, yeah, I think I, I heard you say somewhere, uh, that, uh, there's a defining moment in every skater's life and, and, and that's what they do in the wake of their first, you know, really gnarly crash. Uh, I think so. They, a lot of people try skating and the first time they get hurt, that's the moment where they say, I'm not doing it ever again. And the ones that persevere because they learn from that mistake or because they're just driven, that's the moment where you know that you could make it. Right. And so did you have that? Did you have like a super intense crash? I did, yeah. The first time I got really hurt, I got a concussion because my helmet was terrible. And I knocked my front teeth out.

And I woke up. I woke up in the ambulance basically is when I really became lucent. And I knew exactly what I had done, how I fell, what I did wrong. And my first thought was, oh, I got to learn to figure that out and do it better. It wasn't like, I can't believe I did that. I'm going to die. I'm never skating again. What am I doing with me? It was very much like, oh, I can't wait to get back out there and learn that trick because now I know how to do it right. Right. What do you think are the other big things that skating taught you

that serve you well in your business and personal life? I think just that you don't always have to follow the tried and true path, that it's not all about doing it by the book, so to speak. And it's about finding your own way and making it your own. And also using, not using, but taking cues from other successes and expanding on them in terms of like quite literally tricks. Like you take a trick and you're like, well, maybe this could be done a little bit differently or with an extra spin or with a different flair.

And the collective evolution of skating, I think is something that could be taken to all kinds of different parts of life or businesses even. So what would be an example of that? I think that just in terms of like scientific progress, if more groups were sharing their successes and there was more collective energy to whatever, to medicines, to health, but everyone is so isolated in what they're doing and so focused on their own successes

that it's almost like everyone's working against each other. Right. Like in a zero sum game. Exactly. Yeah. And skateboarding has never been like that because it's just an open architecture. Yeah. And has it remained true to that to this day? It has. Yeah. I guess in terms of competition, maybe some people try to keep it a little close to the heart where if they're learning something new or they got a new thing, they're not gonna unveil it until the big competition and stakes are high now, so that's understandable.

So let's go back to 99. 99 is when you do this 900, right? And you're 43 at the time? 31. Oh, you're 31 the first time. That's right. Okay. You did it again at 43 and then 48? 48, yeah. I've done it since the first time, dozens of times. So it wasn't like every year was a certain milestone, but- But on like a stage or whatever, where there's a lot of people there.

Yeah, that too. But when I was 48, I hadn't tried it in about five years. So that was, I felt like that was a little more monumental. Right. But yeah, it's still hard. How many people have done it now since you? Oh, that's a good question. I wanna say about 10 or 11. Oh really, so still only a few people, right?

Yeah, but at the same time, it's just not, it's not the focus of skaters in terms of some kid growing up skating the park or skating the street. They don't care about 900. You know, they care about a kickflip frontside hurricane. Like that's what their opus is. Right. But for ramp skating, it's definitely a milestone. But even so, a couple of kids have done 1080s now. Oh, wow. Because the ramps have gotten bigger and you

learn to spin at an earlier age. And so that's the next progression. Yeah, got it. But when this happens for the first time in 99, I mean, that's another kind of milestone, not just in your life, but in the kind of canon of skating, right? When this happens, because the mainstream culture took notice of it in a way that was kind of unprecedented. Yeah, for sure. It changed a lot of things in my life and in terms of recognition and opportunities. It was strange to me though, because it was a trick that I had been trying for 10 years on and off. And I had learned 720s 14 years prior to that on a backyard ramp in outside of Stockholm, Sweden with three people watching me and, you know, a couple of claps and that was it. It just wasn't a, in the skate world, it was a milestone,

but it wasn't this monumental achievement. I mean, it was something I was proud of for sure. And then to have so much attention on this next 180 spin 14 years later was really strange to me because it was like, why do you care now? What has changed so drastically? And obviously there are plenty of obvious answers to that, but it was really strange to me where it was suddenly, I was getting stopped in airports by people who had nothing to do with skating.

They're like, 900, bro, yeah. Yeah, well, the YouTube video version of it has like 12 million views on it, I think, or something like that. Yeah, I mean, it's still, I'm hugely proud of it. But like I said, it was a strange shift for me. And, you know, the perfect storm timing of that was that we had been working on a video game for two years up to that point, and it was about to be released. And so that was this extra bonus of all that. Yeah. Well, I mean, you couldn't

have, you know, with all your marketing expertise, you could not have conceptualized a better moment to launch this thing. Yeah. And that video game had been in development for like two years, right? Leading up to that. And then when it was released, it was like a quantum leap forward in terms of what video games could do. And it just, the timing was amazing and it just exploded, right? And that changed your life. It changed my life, absolutely. And changed my opportunities. And when I did that, you know, 99 was already,

I was considering that to be my last year of competition just because I had been competing for 20 years at that point. And to have that happen, it was like, well, that's the obvious out. I end on a high note. I'm not going to compete anymore. And then when the video game got released,

suddenly I had all these opportunities to do things outside of competition that I had, some that I had dreamed of, some that I had never even expected. You must have some, I mean, I think it's part and parcel of your internal motor, your drive. I think a lot of people would have retired and then just banked licensing checks and just kicked back. But you saw a greater opportunity and you decided to like, you know, expand, you know, exponentially based on those opportunities. Yeah. Well, I, I, it just was more out of, out of, uh, fun. Yeah. I just thought, oh, this would be really cool that I can, now I can take McDonald's marketing dollars and

show people what skateboarding is. Right. Um, or I can help to build more public skate parks through, through a charity. And people think, people understand that that's a legitimate need in society. I can do a tour where we're not the sideshow to the rock show. We're actually front and center. Front and center, right.

Skateboarding, BMX, motocross, things like that was, the catalyst for all that was definitely a video game. Right. Um, but then you start like inking, you know, a zillion endorsement deals, right? And is that where the, the sort of sellout thing? Oh, I was already, I was already considered long before that. Yeah. As soon as, as soon as I got a bagel bites contract in 97, I think that was, that was the moment where people were like, all right, this is, you know, he's, he's not on, he's not just having skateboard sponsors. He's,

he's doing stuff that's big corporate evil entities. Very un-punk rock. Yeah. But, but, uh, I guess the funny thing is I never was trying to keep skateboarding this isolated, pure movement. I was always trying to share what, what good it did for me with more people. And we never really had that opportunity. If, if when I was 14 turning pro,

I got offered a contract from bagel bites or from McDonald's, I would have ate it up. Right. I wasn't trying to, you know what I mean? Yeah. I wasn't trying to keep you know what I mean? Yeah. I wasn't trying to keep it this core coveted sport. But it seems like it was that, it's that thing like where, you know, a little indie band

is cool and it has its followers and then they do their next album and it breaks huge and then suddenly everybody turns on them, you know, it's the nature of things. But I guess the funny thing is that, sure, I was the guinea pig for those types of endorsements, but now it's totally normal to be sponsored by Toyota and be a skateboarder. It doesn't even register on anyone.

Well, the relationship with the haters goes back very early, right? Because from the get-go, you had a very different style. Yeah. Well, I do some speaking engagements, and this is one of the points that I make is that I was so set up for haters at an early age that I sort of built this shell where when I was a kid, I was so little that I couldn't, I couldn't propel myself up and do aerials and stuff the way that the pros were doing it because I didn't have the weight. I didn't have the bulk. And so I learned how to ollie into the air and then grab my board. And,

and the older generation said that was cheating because if you ollie into your air, then you can grab it any way. And I was like, exactly. That's exactly what I'm trying to do. And so I got a lot of flack for that. And so it was very weird because I was in this small community already considered an outcast because I skated. And then I was an outcast in that outcast community. I was like shunned because of my style.

And so that just set me up to sort of prove myself further. And so when, then when the, the era came of being considered a sellout, I was already well suited for hearing that sort of negativity. Yeah. A pariah within a community. Yeah. And so it was like, Oh, he's a sellout. I was like, please. Yeah. You guys used to hate my style. You know what I mean? Now my style is popular and now I'm getting paid, you know, big money because of it. And now you don't like me because of that. Like, oh, please. And then, so, so that set me up for the second generation of haters, which only set me up for the third generation, which is social media. And so when people are so crushed by the amount of negative comments on social media, it just

passes me by. I was like, these people used to say this to my face. Do you even look at it? I look at it, sure, but they're hiding behind anonymous names. And if you look at what they're putting out there, they're just talking shit to everyone. So it's like, you're not even special. But it's bizarre that you are on the receiving end

of that kind of stuff because you're, I mean, you're like widely beloved in your sport. You're one of the most popular, you know, sports figures, you know, in our current generation. Oh, but people always find something. You know what I mean? I can't say that that's the majority of the comments I get, but it's always there, you know,

or people just wanna, they just wanna be cynical about what you're doing. And so, like I said, it's not that that's the crux of what I get, but I'm well prepared to handle it because of what I went through as a kid. How do you stay grounded? You seem like you have a healthy, you know, sense of humility about everything that goes on in your life. Like, how do you maintain that? Oh, kids, you know, like taking care of kids and, and. Five kids?

Between my wife and I, we have six. Six kids, right. Well, I mean, my oldest is 25, so he's not really a kid, but, but just, you know, the idea that we, we got to drive him to whatever good, like go take him surfing or go to your friend's house. And, and the kind of stuff we have to deal with is just usual parental, like ridiculous requests. Do your dishes. You know what I mean?

So that stuff definitely keeps you grounded because kids just, they don't care if you're famous. If anything, that's a nuisance to them. What do they think about like who you are and what you do and how has your experience kind of informed your parenting style? Well, they like it in the sense that it affords us certain opportunities that most people don't get. All the boys skate, so they enjoy that they get to go to these skate parks,

these fantastical places, and they get to skate, and sometimes they get to do it alone. They'll get a skate park to themselves or whatever like if we go to Zurich and so they enjoy that aspect of it I think that the only thing they don't enjoy is that it requires so much of my time

so I have to travel constantly and do this, I don't have to but to maintain this lifestyle I've got to figure out the balance of work and home constantly and do this. I don't have to, but to maintain this lifestyle, you have to, you know, I've got to figure out the balance of work and, and home. And, um, but they do, uh, they like it. They understand it for sure. And your, your oldest, is he pro skater? He's a pro skater. Yeah, he is. Wow. Um, and so how does that work in terms of like father, son, you know, communication around that when he's in your shadow?

He's got a whole different style of skating and he's got other interests too. He's kind of a Renaissance man. He's in a band that does pretty well. Now he's a part-time model. So he's got other things going on. He wants to start a coffee shop. But I think it's just more I led by example, you know, to show them that, yes, this is fun. Yes, it's amazing.

You get paid for it, but you have to work at it. And sometimes you got to jump through the hoops in terms of doing interviews and being presentable. I mean, you know, it's not like you have to force it, but for sure, don't be a dick to kids. Do you worry about like that internal motor that you have that allowed you to kind of weather the hard times? And part of that is formative, right? There's a lot of healthy life experience that comes out of that. And Riley, well, my oldest Riley,

he lived through the lean times with me. So he understands that. He has a better appreciation for the cushiness of how we get to live now. But at the same time, they're all, I want them to be self-sufficient. I want them to be self-motivated. They can't just rely on my success or my finances for their own future. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And now, like currently, like how do you sort of think about or partition your involvement in business? You have your hands

in a million different things versus your identity as an athlete. Like how does that, how does that even break down like on a day-to-day basis? Well, if you're, it, I just try to, I try to prioritize mostly, firstly family, but I try to make sure that there's a, there's a very high quality control going on with any of my products or my companies that I'm involved with and trying to skate as much as I can, trying to be interesting on social media, things like that, and share fun things that aren't just about me. I love the stuff that you share. Like when people recognize you or they're not sure that they recognize you. That's all real. I've actually had a few people that,

that it was them that I'm speaking of and they'll comment like, I just was nervous. I didn't know. I'm sorry. Like, no, it gives me, it gives me another story.

Right. I think people are actually kind of getting sick of that at this point. No, but, but, but every time it happens, almost, you know me another story. Right. I think people are actually kind of getting sick of that at this point. No, I think it's good. But every time it happens, almost, you know, every fifth time it happens, it's some unique interaction that I think is funny to share. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what is the, when you say like, you know, I try to skate as much as possible. Well, like. Do you have like a training product?

Do you do, I mean, is it just skating or do you do other stuff? I have, well, I have my own ramp. It's the ramp that I built for our tour for Abumacem. That's like that million dollar ramp. Yeah. It's in San Diego. And so I literally was skating it yesterday. That's where my office is. And so summertime is a little different, but generally my regular day would consist of getting kids off to school, then going there and either having meetings or taking phone calls, replying to emails, something like that,

maybe doing phone interviews or whatnot, and then trying to skate before kids get out of school. And then if after that, then I'm kind of at their disposal, whatever they want to do. And then the travel is just- And then when I travel, it's very much, I'm trying to fit everything in all at once.

And so traveling is kind of nonstop. I guess the best example is like, I'm going to Buenos Aires in a couple months. I'm traveling quite a bit before then, but this is a perfect example in that there's an event the day before, then I'm flying to Buenos Aires. I'll be there for 16 hours doing this event, doing speaking thing, doing a skate thing,

and then flying right back into a fundraiser the day I get back. Right. But because I got to – all of those things were important to do. How do you figure out what to say yes to and what to say no to? Whatever I feel like will resonate best and have the most impact or that I feel strongly about. But definitely I've learned to say no. I think probably the best advantage of having all the success is that it gives you the power to say no to things. But all the stuff that you get offered is cool.

You probably want to do all of it. There's so much cool stuff. Yeah, it is very strange to be like, sorry, I can't. Come hang out with this icon that you've revered your whole life. Pretty much, yeah. Like I got a thing today like, oh, I really can't make the movie premiere, but I appreciate doing that. This is literally like that was an email I got today.

Like I would love to do it, but next week is hectic and we got the kids and can't just break out for the night. Where do you think the drive comes from? Is it just an internal drive to be the best that you can be, be the most expressive? Does it come from a sense of competing against others? Like what's the genesis of the whole thing? I think it's always been progression

and wanting to challenge myself. I never felt, I never wanted to rest on my accolades. I didn't really, I was never about like half of number one because once, I feel like if those are your goals, if your mindset is like, I wanna be number one or I wanna be rich, I wanna be famous. If you get a taste of any of that, you lose your motivation.

Not that I had this sort of perspective when I was a kid, but my goal was just to get better. My goal was just to get better at skating and do better tricks. And so even if I won a contest, I was out there the next day skating, trying new stuff. And that's never waned. I mean, that's still how it is.

Yeah, so that like devotion to incremental daily progression spills over into business life and everything else. Exactly, yeah. And I look for those challenges or I look for voids in the market where like, oh, this could be a fun thing to get into or to try to create a movement here. Yeah, and that's not the sexy stuff.

Everyone wants to see you on the ramp or there's pictures and videos and all that kind of stuff, but it's the daily kind of like pressure applied to that thing that you love or whatever it is you're trying to move forward and just being happy with that alone. But I know that success will come later or that appreciation will come later

even if it's not just a skating thing. What's the biggest failure that you've had uh when we first started having success as a skate brand we also had a distribution arm and we were carrying other skate brands and then we started carrying like doing sort of different clothing uh hookups is a brand that we created under that umbrella and then we took in um a designer and started doing high-end denim around 2004 right when that was a thing where people started paying a lot of money for jeans but we had this guy that was sort of right at the um right place right time in terms of being really cool designs. But we didn't know. We didn't know apparel.

We didn't, especially denim. And all of a sudden, it was eating all the profits from the building. I mean, everything. So all the profits. Catabolizing the other businesses. Everything, yeah. And my partner wanted to keep it going.

I wanted to keep getting bigger loans. And at some point I was like, we have to let this go. We're way in way over ahead. And we basically sold the brand for what we owed the banks. And so what, yeah. Well, I mean, that seems like a business that's outside of your- It was.

And I think we just, we were, we thought we were invincible. You know, we were high on our own success and we were like, we can make anything work. Right. And so what do you take from that, that like helped you later? That I can't get into something just because I think it'll be successful.

I have to really be passionate and believe in it and understand all the aspects of it. I think what, what I, what carried me through all of the success was, was embracing all the minutia and learning all the other stuff about a business that maybe I didn't care about as a kid. And, and a lot of times, you know, the, the non-sexy stuff of purchase orders and, you know, and paying taxes and all that stuff is just things I didn't want to care about. But, but as I learned them, as I embraced them, that helped me, that helped me to be successful.

Right. Well, in skating, the minutia is everything, right? Being highly attuned to the minutia and, and figuring out the tiniest shifts in your body weight or whatever it is to make it work. And it's a very personal individual endeavor. And then you scale that up into business and suddenly, like, I would assume, well, as a skater, you have to be a control freak about yourself, right? In a lot of ways. Yeah. But also, but, but, but I think what, what, what contributed to my success was that I was, I was willing to go outside my comfort zone. And so like I learned techniques in skating that I wasn't really interested

in, but I knew it would help me be more well-rounded in terms of competition or exhibitions in terms of skating, different terrain, other skate parks, stuff like that. And with that mindset, that helped me in business because I was willing to get outside my comfort zone and learn all these other aspects of manufacturing. We're in a culture right now where suddenly it's super cool to be an entrepreneur, a small business owner, a startup founder. Everybody wants to be a startup founder.

They all want the exit. Yeah. So they're looking at – They want the startup. They want the exit. They're not looking at the daily incremental progression. They're looking at the. They want the exit. They're not looking at the daily incremental progression. They're looking at the destination. Yeah.

Right. So when you sort of canvas young people or anybody for that matter out there taking a stab at business, like what do you identify as the common mistakes that like you see immediately? Losing control of the brand or the direction in pursuit of fast cash. I think that a lot of people, they see maybe an injection of money and they think, oh, that's it. That's what's gonna make it. They're celebrating, yeah.

But then they don't realize- They gave away their company. They're giving away their company. And no matter how much they promise that it's gonna be the same thing, it is never the same thing. And it's gonna be a whole new set of employees in a whole new direction.

And you have to maintain that control. And sometimes that requires buckling down and denying the money or the quick money. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. When you look back on your career, whether it's skating or business, like what are the fondest memories that stick out for you? Like what do you remember most? Like when you're like, oh man, remember that time? Remember how awesome that was?

It's funny. I remember the leaner times because they were so free. And like the early days of Birdhouse was, we were on tour. It was five of us in our delivery van driving across the country, skating parking lots for 100 people maybe, and at a skate shop, they would just put up some wooden ramps in their parking lot for us to skate,

and we'd all share the same hotel room, and even though that all seems like a struggle, it was super fun. Because it was, we just didn't care. We had nothing to lose. Yeah. And that was very liberating. I find that to be common

amongst a lot of different successful people. When you, they don't remember, oh, it's not the IPO or standing on the podium at the Olympics. Oh, I remember, there were plenty of- They're great, but like the fondest, like the ones that really like, hit you in the heart, it is those early days when life was simple and there was nothing to lose

and it was just about your dreams. Yeah, but I could never downplay being on the Simpsons. That was one of the coolest things by far, yeah. Well, that's when you have just crossed over in the biggest way. It was, it was such a, yeah, it was definitely a huge validation. And the fact that, you know,

if you're on the Simpsons as yourself, there's a cool factor that's undeniable. Well, now you have your skateboard in the Smithsonian and like you skateboarded in the White House or in the old executive office building or something? No, I did skate through the White House, actually. You did? I got invited there during a Father's Day celebration when Obama was in office.

And I was waiting at the nearby, the Eisenhower building is right next door. I was waiting there and I skated through the hall and got a photo. And I thought that was super cool. And then I realized that once I got over the White House, I could just do the same thing really quick before they told me no. And I did. Did they tell you no though?

They didn't, but I knew not to push it. Was Obama there? Did he see it? He didn't see me do it, but I saw him right after that. You did. But the funny thing is he actually, one of the few things he said to me was, hey, I'm really sorry,

we don't have any ramps for you to skate here. Yeah, that would be cool if there was a ramp out behind that. He should have just gotten one there just for you for that day. I think they wanted plausible deniability that they didn't allow me to do that. Right.

What do you think of this new sort of motorized skateboard trend? I don't know. It's, you know, it's okay. It's transportation, sure. Yeah, but it's not like... It's different. Yeah, you're not gonna do any kickflips on them.

No, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're cool though. I'm sure you've ridden them. They're fun to ride. Yeah, in fact, we're working on a possible line of that kind of thing that is more in tune with real skateboards, but does have motors. It's not just long boards.

Right. Yeah, that's cool. So what's exciting you now? What are you into now that's new in this continuation of pushing the envelope and trying new things? Well, our Hawk clothing brand has a lot of potential. We've been expanding that globally and a lot in South America. And I feel like there's, there's a lot more we can do with that because our, the whole basis of hot clothing is, is cool clothes, cool skate culture clothes for kids.

And other than that, probably the one thing I'm really excited about working on in the future is I have a project with Mark Mothersbaugh where we're going to do the Broadway play thing, Broadway show. Yeah. Um, in fact that that's, that's coming closer to reality than it ever has been. And that's super exciting to me because I feel like we could do something really unique in a Broadway setting, right. Um, with his music and my skating choreography. Right. So for people that are listening who don't know, Mark Mothersbaugh, legendary musician, member of Devo,

and now just an incredible composer for film and television. Yeah, basically any of your favorite movies he probably did a lot of music for. Yeah, incredible musician. Yeah, he's awesome. That's exciting. So what's the storyline for that? We bought the rights to a Nick Hornby book called Slam,

which is about a skater, a teenage skater that gets a girl pregnant. It's about a teen pregnancy. It's about them, not just about him, but about her as well. this kid who has, who is at a crossroads of, you know, responsibility and, and he still wants to skate. And, um, I think it, I think it's a really good story and theme for, for kids today. Very cool. Yeah. The, the whole world of theater and Broadway has its own rules. It's very strange unlike any other business. Yeah. But I feel like there I feel like it's, with the success of Book of Mormon and the success of Hamilton, we're seeing that you can do it way different and be revered. Yeah. And I'm hoping that we can at least get some attention on that. So how far down the line are you?

We're getting there. Yeah. We're in the middle of getting funding, but Mark's writing and we're designing sets and things like that. And are you going to be involved in, are you going to do commentary on the Olympics or are you having any official?

I have definitely planted that seed. We'll see. Yeah, cool. I used to do all the X Games commentary, so I'm used to it. Beyond that, I'm working on a mobile game, like a phone skating game. Of course you are. Well, it's been a while. I haven't done a game in a few years.

How would this be? Well, I guess we're, yeah, we're in a new world of what's possible and you're doing this with mobile and everything like that. Yeah, yeah. It's not with Activision. It's not THPS. Right. But definitely there are hints of it. Uh-huh. What do you think, and we'll wrap this up in a minute, but what do you think gets misunderstood about you

or that you wish people kind of understood better about who you are and what's important to you? Oh, that's a good question. I think people have been focused on my success maybe too much where they think that all I really ever cared about was being rich or famous. And that was never my motivation

because it just didn't exist. And even to this day, it's still incidental to what I do and how much I love skating. But I feel like at least on some level, I've proven that over the, over recent years, just with putting out video parts at my age and things like that and doing

stuff that, you know, there, there was no end game financially for any of that. Yeah. But I don't, I, you know,

I, I think I, I come as I am, you know what I mean? I don't, you know, I think I come as I am. You know what I mean? I'm not trying to present some other persona and what you see is what you get. Yeah, I mean, as somebody who has, you know, followed your passion, you know, who had a passion and has committed to following it

for as far back as you can remember, it's very trite and kind of pithy to tell people like, you should follow your passion. Most people are really so disconnected from themselves that they're not even really sure what that passion is. And so when people say to you, like, you know, how do you find that? Or like, if I'm stuck in a cubicle in a job that I hate, you know, how can I get a little bit, how can I get some of that to rub off on me? Or like, what should I do to try to cultivate a little bit of that, you know, sense of purposefulness and direction? I think it's more just really focusing on something you love and making time

for it. You know, don't quit altogether. Like if you want to, if you want to take that chance, go for it. I would definitely, I would, I would support that as well. But I feel like you've got to carve it. You just got to prioritize your time and you got to carve out some time to do something you really love. It sounds simple, you know, and, but I know it's hard. Well, and I think people overcomplicate it as well, or they feel like they're afraid to fail or they feel like whatever it afraid to fail or they feel like whatever it is they're passionate about is silly

you know because maybe it's comic books or maybe it's something that as a kid you know and that's the thing is like giving people permission and telling them it's okay to love the thing that you love you can do something that was considered not cool and make it work

and cultivate that inner kid. Yeah. Good talking to you, man. Oh, you too. Thank you. Yeah. I appreciate you having on. You're easy to find on the internet at Tony Hawk everywhere.

Everywhere at Tony Hawk. Anything else coming up you want to make people aware of? That's a good question. I don't think so. I'm pretty excited about all the stuff coming up my plate is full for the most part but

I would imagine it is in a good way and with kids like my daughter is here she's here she's manning the camera her our trade off

was that she gets to go to a restaurant she really wanted to try up here well good awesome man well I appreciate you making the adventure up here yeah thank you

alright peace bye bye man well I appreciate you making the adventure up here yeah thank you all right peace bye amazing human that Tony Hawk I dig him hope you guys enjoyed that do me a favor by doing Tony a solid hit him up on the socials at Tony Hawk on both Twitter and Instagram and uh let him know let him know how this one landed for you. You can check out the conversation as well as a few short clips from the episode on YouTube at youtube.com forward slash Rich Roll. And as always, be sure to explore the show notes

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