The Rich Roll Podcast - Turning Your Passion Into Your Profession

Episode Date: January 26, 2015

What can mined from the abyss that separates ordinary from extraordinary? Although he's never pedaled a single stage of the Tour de France as a professional cyclist, Mike Cotty has done things on the bike that would make even Jens Voigt (the consensus hard man of the pro peloton) cringe. Here's a taste. Last summer Mike rode his bike 1000 kilometers non-stop across 21 mountains in the Dolomites, Eastern Alps and Swiss Alps, from Conegliano, Italy, to Chamonix-Mont-Blanc, France. That's over 21,000 meters in elevation gain. That's 54 hours of riding without sleep. That's like riding 8 to 10 stages of the Tour de France without stopping. How is that even humanly possible? Mike also rode 684 kilometers for 30 hours straight across the Pyrenees from the Atlantic to the Mediterranean. A feat rivaled only by his 33-hour, 677 kilometer ride that ascended 16,000 meters of elevation gain across the Alps. Obviously I wouldn't characterize Mike as normal. Far from it. But there is a very relatable everyman aspect to Mike's story that captured my fancy. Mike's path has hardly been linear, but today he is not only an extraordinarily accomplished athlete, he is a respected filmmaker, brand ambassador, media & marketing consultant and entrepreneur. Through his company Media-24, Mike creates compelling content and develops marketing strategy for top tier organizations like Mavic, Cannondale and the Cannondale-Garmin professional cycling team. Mike's latest passion project is The Col Collective, a high quality online video resource dedicated to helping inspire and educate cyclists to reach the summit of the most spectacular mountain passes in the world. Mike's is also a path without ego, well grounded in a true desire to educate, positively impact and inspire people to overcome their own barriers. All these elements make for great conversation about passion. About pushing past that voice in your head that wants you to quit. About what is required to break through seemingly insurmountable barriers. And about the self-discovery incident to attempting something personally unprecedented. This is a conversation about the value and importance of hard work over the life hack. About the pain, suffering, joy and pride that comes with embracing the journey. About living in balance with nature. About faith, having a strong conviction about yourself and the path ahead. And it's about what's required to turn your passion into your profession. I sincerely hope you enjoy the conversation. Peace + Plants, Rich

wherever you think your boundary is if you can if you can get to that point but then step just a little bit further the whole world opens up again and that was mike coddy and this is episode 127 of the rich roll podcast the rich roll podcast The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey, everybody. Thanks for tuning in. My name is Rich Roll. I am an ultra-endurance athlete, a best-selling author, a wellness evangelist, a lifestyle entrepreneur, a husband, and a father of four kids. Thanks for tuning in, where each week I sit down with the best and the brightest, the most forward-thinking, paradigm-busting minds in health and wellness and fitness and sports

and nutrition and the arts and even entrepreneurship to help you discover, uncover, unlock, and unleash your best, most authentic self. Thanks for listening. Thank you for spreading the word to your friends and most authentic self. Thanks for listening. Thank you for spreading the word to your friends and on social media. Thank you for clicking through the Amazon banner at richworld.com for all your Amazon purchases. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had

that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care, especially because, unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices. It's a real problem, a problem I'm now happy and proud to share has been solved by the people at recovery.com, who created an online support portal designed to guide, to support, and empower you to find the ideal level of care tailored to your personal needs.

They've partnered with the best global behavioral health providers to cover the full spectrum of behavioral health disorders, including substance use disorders, depression, anxiety, eating disorders, gambling addictions, and more. Navigating their site is simple. Search by insurance coverage, location, treatment type, you name it. Plus, you can read reviews from former patients to help you decide. Whether you're a busy exec, a parent of a struggling teen, or battling addiction yourself, exec, a parent of a struggling teen, or battling addiction yourself. I feel you. I empathize with you. I really do. And they have treatment options for you. Life in recovery is wonderful, and recovery.com is your partner in starting that journey. When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment

option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. All right, finally, on to today's guest. I want to open it up, though, with a thought, an idea. And that idea is this. a thought, an idea. And that idea is this. What can be mined from the abyss that separates ordinary from extraordinary? What can be mined from the abyss that separates ordinary from extraordinary? And that idea is sort of at the crux of this week's show and this week's guest. It's a guy called Mike Cotty. Mike Cotty is a super interesting guy. He's a cyclist. And although he's never pedaled a single stage of the Tour de France as a professional cyclist, Mike is a guy who has done things on the bike that would make even Jens Voigt cringe. Who's Jens Voigt if you're not a cyclist? Well, he's sort of, it's kind of an inside joke in cycling because Jens Voigt is,

for those who don't know, is kind of the consensus hard man in the pro pelist. Well, he's sort of, it's kind of an inside joke in cycling because Jens Voigt is, for those who don't know, is kind of the consensus hard man in the pro peloton. Like nobody is tougher than Jens. And Mike Cotty has done some stuff that I think would impress even Jens. So here's a taste of what that is. Last summer, imagine this. Mike rode his bike 1,000 kilometers nonstop. Not enough for you. That ride was across 21 mountains in the Dolomites, the Eastern Alps, and the Swiss Alps. He went from a small town in Italy all the way to Mont Blanc in France. He covered 21,000 meters in elevation gain. That's a lot of climbing uphill. And he did it in 54 hours of riding without sleep. 54 hours on his bike without stopping. A thousand kilometers, 21 mountains. What's that like? I'll tell you what that's like. That would be like riding eight to ten stages of the Tour de France without stopping.

10 stages of the Tour de France without stopping. It's insane. I've done some crazy stuff, but I really don't even know how that's even possible. And it's not the only time he's done something like this. He rode 684 kilometers for 30 hours straight across the Pyrenees from the Atlantic to the Mediterranean. And he also rode, I don't know, 677 kilometers, ascending 16,000 meters of elevation game all the way across the Alps. Like this is an ultra endurance cyclist, bar none. So obviously, I would not characterize Mike as a normal guy, far from normal. But there is a very relatable everyman aspect to Mike's story that really captured my fancy and I thought would make for a really interesting podcast conversation. So just because Mike is a guy who lacked the pure natural talent to be a competitive professional cyclist

at the very highest level, I'm talking about Tour de France, like international pro teams, that didn't mean that Mike was just going to hang up his bike. Instead, he embarked on a journey that found him walking out on a very secure career as an engineer to basically courageously jump into the abyss, a decision to live on his own terms and in accordance with his passion, the simplest things that he loves about life, like riding his bike, like connecting with nature, like expressing himself creatively and sharing his life experience to educate and inspire others to live more authentically. Mike's path was hardly linear. I mean, whose is, right? But today, he's not only an extraordinarily accomplished athlete, he's a respected filmmaker.

He is a brand ambassador. He's a media consultant. And he's an entrepreneur. And through his company, it's called Media24, he develops marketing strategy and creates compelling content for top-tier organizations like Mavic and Cannondale and the Cannondale Garmin professional cycling team. And he more recently launched a passion project. It's called the Cole Collective, C-O-L, Cole. It means climb in a certain European language. And what is the Cole Collective? Well, it's a high quality online video resource dedicated to helping inspire and educate cyclists to reach the summit of the greatest mountain passes in the world. It's a series of videos in which Mike

climbs up these extraordinarily beautiful mountains and kind of talks about the history of the climb and cycling and how to approach it from a cyclist's perspective, what to expect, and how to enjoy the journey of the ascent. And what's cool about Mike is he's, you know, he's a guy who's pretty much without ego. He's really well grounded in a true desire to just educate, positively impact, and inspire people to overcome their own barriers. All of these elements, of course, make for a great conversation about passion, about pushing past that voice in your head that wants you to quit, about what's required to break through seemingly insurmountable barriers, and about the self-discovery incident to attempting

something personally unprecedented. So this is a conversation about the value and importance of hard work over the life hack, about pain, suffering, joy, and pride that comes with embracing the journey. And it's about living in balance with nature. It's about faith, having a strong conviction about yourself and the path ahead. And it's about what's required to turn your passion into your profession. So, let's check him out. We had a nice ride the other day. You had a nice tour here today.

How did the tour and sideshow go? Oh, man, this place is incredible. We walked in and suddenly back to remembering Terminator 2 on the big screen and what the guys do just to see. I mean, it's interesting to see the passion of everyone here. That's what sort of brings it home. Greg gave us the, the, uh, the, the tour and, uh, just to see everyone's, you know, attention to detail and they just want to be doing it because this is what they, they, they live and dream. And, you know, that's incredible.

But you can't relate to that, can you? Oh, not at all. No, not at all. No, it's good to see all these talented people. Kindred spirits in their own, in their own unique expression of basically what is the same thing that you do, just in a different manner. Well, that's the beauty of it at the end of the day. I've always, from my personal experiences, it's like, well, this is just what's in me. And it's great to see you come 5,000 miles around the world and see other people just experiencing their own thing in their own way and forging a life and a career and everything which is in their heart and soul to basically better themselves and hopefully bring a little bit of extra joy to the world. That's what we're here for. Very good.

I like that. Well, let's set the stage a little bit. I want to put this in context, especially for the non-cyclists that are listening, who are trying to wrap their brain around who you are and what you do. Just to give you guys an idea of what this guy is all about and some of the things that he's done, setting aside kind of the advocacy and the education and the inspirational work that you do and focusing on just the pure athleticism, you've done some pretty remarkable things as a, I guess it's fair to call you an ultra endurance cyclist,

although I know you like to just think of yourself as someone who goes out for really long bike rides. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, we're talking like really long bike rides. Yeah, put the word ultra and that sort of defines something, but you know, what is ultra? It immediately categorizes you as something, right? I mean, I still still i do all sorts of

stuff on the bike so sometimes it's short sometimes it's very long but uh what's in for me uh yeah the the most amount of freedom comes from just when i'm i leave my mind at the door and just go out and ride and right we'll see what happens at the end of the ride and uh and and last august you uh this past august you left your your house and went out for a little bit of a jaunt, a little bit of a long ride, right? Let's see, you rode without sleeping over 54 hours. You rode over 1,000 kilometers and had accumulated over 21,250 meters in elevation gain without sleeping. Yeah. And that includes 21 mountains.

So 21 mountain passes that you rode your bike over. Yeah, I mean, it was a total dream. It didn't just happen, obviously. It's kind of the last 15 years, building and building and building. And just, you know, life's led me in that direction. And this was, last august was the uh the accumulation of everything everything which i'd lived for for so long and yeah it's

just one of those things you you just don't know even what's around the corner you don't know i mean i every time i go to the mountains for me that's just where i feel uh complete peace and freedom and nature and everything's there. And that's what gives energy. And I think if you're in an environment where you can, you're gifted to be able to switch off from the world for a bit, you know, your mind can just be put to one side and you can just go and achieve and try and ride and do what feels good for you. And that was kind of the story behind it.

And, you know, we got there after a lot of training, a lot of years experience and moving up to that. But, uh, yeah, ultimately it was, let's just, let's just see if we can, we can do something and get free for a while. Well, uh, you made it through, right? So I want to, I want to find out a little bit more about, uh, you know, how this all went down. I mean, look, a thousand miles, 21 mountains, that, that amount of elevation gain, this is like riding, I mean, look, 1,000 miles, 21 mountains, that amount of elevation gain. This is like riding, I guess, is it fair to say, I mean, it's sort of like riding like eight or ten legs of the Tour de France, you know, all at once without sleeping. Like just back to back to back to back, right? Yeah, I think if you want to put sort of trying to put it in perspective, if you can, it's a Tour de France stage would probably be maybe 4,000 meters.

In elevation gain. In elevation gain. Maybe like anywhere from 100 to 200 kilometers. Yeah, yeah. And then, I mean, it was 1,000K. So 1,000K or just over 1,000K. But the elevation, and it's funny because I could even be doing myself a disservice on the elevation because we had a lot of rain, like seven or eight hours of torrential rain on the first night.

And that stopped the barometric pressure on my Garmin working. So when I got to the end, I clocked it. Oh, yeah, it's 21,000 meters of climbing. And then a guy on Twitter looked at the route profile and said, oh, I think you're doing yourself down. It's more like 23 and a half. I've looked at the thing. Yeah, a topo map should be able to yeah so but i mean yeah it's about i would say i mean the thing is if you want to categorize it yes it's around the eight stages of the tour or something like this in terms of elevation game but i've never looked at you know

the challenge for me isn't about categorizing it can Can I do eight stages of the Tour de France? Can I do 10? It was for me, it's an A to B. We started off in Italy, Canigliano, and the goal was to traverse the Dolomites, followed by the Italian and Eastern Alps and then the Swiss Alps and finish up at Mont Blanc. So it's very much an A to B journey, which isn't. I mean, yeah, you can look at Tour de France stages and that, but that's not the, it was just, can I do it? Can I do it, right? Will my mind last? Will my body last?

And just the experience and every experience which I've had like that in the past has just given me so much more knowledge about myself and more knowledge about the world and more knowledge about, you know, everything which I've believed in. Uh, and maybe people in the past have sort of, you know, said, Hey, that's not going to work. You can't do this. It's impossible. And you say, well, how do I know unless I'm going to try simple equation, let's get on the bike and try. Yeah. And as lunatic as it sounds, I mean, you built up to this and being, you know, in the years prior, you did two other crazy challenges that were just almost, you know, barely a step down from this, that led up to this. I mean, you had the one in 2013, you basically rode all of the Alps over 33 hours, right? That was like 677 kilometers. And the year before that, you rode the Pyrenees and

that was 2011. That was like a 30 hour ride, right? Yeah. I mean, the sort before that, you rode the Pyrenees and that was 2011. That was like a 30-hour ride, right? Yeah. I mean, the sort of background which I had, you know, if I sort of cast my mind back a long time, I always had a sort of fascination with the mind and the body. And this was when I was a real young kid and I was at school and we're in science class and the teacher was talking about a 100-mile ride and no one could get their head around it. And I was thinking, well, the reason why everyone's so screwed up on this at the moment is the fact that they're saying it's 100 miles. And they know that where we come from, if you go up to London and halfway back, it's about 100 miles.

So you sit on the motorway for an hour and a half and then you turn around and you come back and you go, hey, that's a long way. But if you're going to Scotland, it's not that far, is it? So they'd already limited themselves, their perception on what some, what a far, a long distance was. And that was just, that was the nuts and bolts of the way my mind worked back then. I said, well, if you're going to put a limitation on something, then of course you're going to straight away, the mind is going to sort of switch off and say, it can't be done. It can't be done. So yeah, I mean the, the buildup, um, for me was many, many years of just going out and exploring.

And it was kind of an interesting way to sort of build up to it through a racing sort of side of my cycling through to what gave me, as I say, the most the real most joy was just going out there and riding and doing big rides, whether they're on my own or part of a like or part of a group or with some friends or whatever, and just feeling that escapism. And it was a sort of accumulation of all of that, which led me to get to the big, big stuff. Yeah, and I'm interested in, you know, I'm fascinated by normal people that do extraordinary things. And I wouldn't categorize you as normal

by any stretch of the imagination. But I think what is interesting about your story is that you had a dream as a young person of being a professional cyclist and sort of realized as you immersed yourself in the world of cycling that maybe you were lacking that extra gene that was gonna put you in the pro peloton.

And then having to grapple with, well, what next, right? Like if I'm not going to be that guy, if I'm not going to be racing the Tour de France, but I still love cycling, what am I going to do now? Yeah, I mean, I think that's exactly right. I had dreams and I still have dreams of, you know, it never dies. I'm just like, yeah, I'm a pro. I could do this. I'm going to race. Well, you qualify as a pro cyclist and you are, you make your living as a cyclist. You are a professional cyclist. Yeah. It's a different, it's a different,

professional racing cyclist, professional ambassador or cyclist there. You know, there, I think it's, it's kind of the modern day approach to things now, but I, I always had ambitions, um, when I was growing up and that's what led me to, now, but I always had ambitions when I was growing up. And that's what led me to originally the whole healthy lifestyle thing, because it was like, you know, you have to put the right fuel in your body and to race well. I had an upbringing where Friday nights was early night, Saturday nights was prepping up, Sunday was racing. And I lived like that for a long, long time. But ultimately, I got to just outside, 20, 21 years old, and I was working in engineering and it was kind of a junction in my life where I was still super young.

I really didn't know anything about anything, but I'd done engineering at college and I was working and I got qualified as a mechanical design engineer. And from that point, I said, hey, great. I've now, I'm sort of safe. I've got something. You know, I'm young and I've got something. And I thought, could I progress the cycling side of things? I was only ever dreaming of cycling, to be honest. I just had to do this to keep everyone happy at home. It's like, yay, you know, Mike's got some qualifications now. Great. He can go and, you know,'s got some qualifications now great he can go and you know get a proper career and and I just was never content with that so even even at 21 I I just went on the internet and uh this was this was what really got me in the bike industry so we've got no no family in the industry

or anything like that but I just was like every time I got my bike I just feel like this is where I need to be and uh and I managed to get a job in the bike world and and that led me to to living in Europe which was a whole life experience straight away. Right. So you graduate from college, university, qualifications, meaning you got your degree, right? So you're a mechanical engineer and you go to work in the aerospace industry, right?

That's it. Aerospace. And so you're being a good young man. You're doing the proper, responsible thing by pursuing this very secure career track where you could have very well stayed. And you're still trying to race, right? Like you're at night, you're training and you're still like, I don't know, what are you doing at that time? Yeah, 100%.

I mean, life revolved around racing and cycling. And I would have Monday's recovery day at work. It was like, make sure I sit down a lot because it's a hard race Sunday. And yeah, I mean, planning the training and it was just amazing. Uh, I just, but are people saying, come on, man, like, when are you going to give that up? Like you're, you know, let's, well, to be honest, there was, I mean, I saw a British aerospace. I saw, uh, guys who had been engineers for 40 years and they'd done the apprenticeship and they'd, and they were 60, 65 years old and then they were going to retire. And I just thought, no way. It's just, it's just for me, I mean, it's, you know, it's, uh, uh, you know, it's, uh, admirable to,

to put the time in like that. And, but I just, it just didn't resonate with me like that. I just had to, I just had to try and bring forward what I felt I'd invested a lot of time in cycling, but even at that age it was it was still in its infancy because you're only 20 21 years old it's only so much time you can put into it but it was just the whole process of like this is this is where I feel safest sort of thing so um but then you have the the peer pressure really because you get to that age and it's all about you know people um at college university drinking starts and parties and you have to fit in um and really i i was lucky in some respect some aspect because you know my parents were so

supportive at that age all they wanted to do was make sure that if we if we wanted to do something they would they wouldn't they wouldn't push us but they would just say hey yeah you know what we'll support we'll take you to races we'll do whatever it takes and uh you know i've, you know, I've got a lot to thank for my mom and dad for just running us around the country and keeping us on the right track. And, but then when I moved abroad, started working for American Bike Company back in 2000. And that was where, you know, got in the bike industry, it suddenly was like, wow, this is a dream come true. Right. So, so the first kind of big risk that you take is you say sayonara to British aerospace, right? Like it's a good job, right? That's an amazing way. And for you to say, I'm going to go, I mean, first of all, how do you even get a job at a bike company, but we'll get there. And then to, and then to say, well, I'm

going to leave where I grew up and I'm going to go to a foreign country where they don't even speak the language on this flyer because I have this dream. I mean, that's, you know, that's a, that's a big step for anybody, let alone a young person to make. So that's the first kind of foray into, you know, sort of taking a leap of faith, I suppose, that, that of moving in the direction of, of living your passion. Yeah. I mean, I was, I was actually lucky in some respect because I was working in engineering. So the Cannondale team, they sort of influenced me a lot. There was a lot of young riders. They seemed to be dominating the world at the time and I was inspired by them. And then the brand itself was super innovative. It was high performing. So from an engineering

sort of mechanical point of view, it ticked the box. From of mechanical point of view, it ticked the box from the team point of view, it ticked the box so that I was, I was really inspired by that whole setup. So first of all, it was like, let's get on the internet and find out a bit more about this company and how I can get in there. But of course, it's like, you can't just dream up a job and suddenly, hey, guys, look, I'd like to work for you. It just doesn't work like that. So and I actually found... How did you get this job? Well, okay. So I just went on the, I literally just went on their website and looked through all the jobs and found a job based in their central location in Switzerland, in Basel.

And it was for a marketing coordinator and I'd just done a bunch of engineering. So I had no real qualifications. That doesn't involve you designing bicycles. No, that's the whole point. I mean, I thought maybe if I was going in as a design engineer or something from the tech side, but I mean, I've always been, I've always, I guess, had a sort of vision for looking a little bit past the normality, so to speak. And I mean, this is what I wanted. So I said, Hey, you know, maybe if I just apply and I looked at what they needed and I thought, well, okay. I mean,

I've got great bike knowledge. I know about their riders and about their team. I'm passionate about what, what they stand for. Um, and I'm young, so, you know, they can teach me anything. Um, like a sponge, I'll just work hard and soak it up, but you've got to get in there. You've got to get in front of the people. So, um, I thought, well, you know, this was, it's sponge. I just work hard and soak it up. But you've got to get in there. You've got to get in front of the people. So I thought, well, this is it's funny. I was talking to an old colleague just a couple of months ago, and he remembered the CV that I sent in 15 years later. And I thought, well, maybe I did something right there. But I just thought, well, I've got no no marketing qualifications. And how am I going to get in front of this global company and make a mark at 21 years old? So I put together an interactive CV back in the day of CD-ROMs. Yeah, I mean, today, maybe that would be something that they're maybe more used to seeing, but back in 2000, not so much. No, I mean, I just thought, well, black and white, I'm going to be the same as every other guy. So let's give them something and boost it up with a bit of Red Hot Chili Peppers music when it cut when they when they shove it in the machine and they're you know no one likes uh you know as soon as soon as you put something in your computer music comes on but hey at least they'll remember me and then they'll be ah there it was the guy who gave us a cd with a bunch of

information on and they really liked it they were like they're super innovative innovative company so uh got a phone call saying you better come on out and we'll just have a chat and that went out for a chat and that must have been in the I think June around June 2000 and by August I was packing my bags and moving out of home and trying to look for apartment on my own in Basel which was you know real trajectory fast trajectory to I guess a life lesson in you know come on Mike you gotta you gotta fend for yourself now right right But this is still like, let's make no mistakes. This is not you, you know, hanging out with Peter Sagan. You're moving in the right direction, but this is not a job that involves you riding a bike at all. No, this is pure marketing. Yeah, marketing for the brand. And I mean, a lot of event work. So we were trying to promote the brand and uh i mean a lot of event work so we were trying to

promote the brand through events and doing demos and things like this uh but the whole nuts and bolts of the job really was with the press so it was uh organizing product reviews and tests and being the front man for the brand for for that market um which was as i say it was it was a dream for me i was suddenly in the bike world but i, I would go to a team camp and I would be like, I really want to be a pro cyclist still. I get the opportunity once or twice a year to hang out at team camp. And I just couldn't let the dream die. I was just like, I just want to be doing what those guys are doing. Right. It's kind of a, it's kind of a shadow artist thing, right? Because you're in the world, but you're not, you want to be one of the guys, but you're not really the guy. You're the guy around the guys.

In fact, you're nowhere near one of the guys. You're like, who is this guy? That's who you are. That's pretty funny. So how do you go from like, who is this guy to being like, oh, that guy? Well, I mean, crikey, how did I do that? Okay, let's think back. No, I mean, I was hanging out at Team Camp a couple of times.

And I honestly... When you would go to these Team Camps, are you starting the filming part now? Or that comes later? This is way, way, way before. So what we would do at Team Camp is we would launch a product. So for example, we'd have a new race bike. A new bike, right. And then we'd invite all the press along.

And it was actually a really big learning curve i remember at the time the uh the head of marketing uh they won on a sabbatical which was great for me because i got to step up big time and back in 2001 i think it was 2001 2002 they launched a brand new race bike and i'd been i'd at that point i had the i would been in the marketing office the longest, so I was 22. So it was like, Hey Mike, you're going to organize our global product launch for, you know, for Australia, for Japan, for America, we're going to get the Europeans over. So you just got to get on and coordinate the lot. And it was like, wow, okay, right. I'm going to make a,

make a difference here. So pulling in all the media and all the press and putting the, the presentations together and, and planning out the rides and all the team activities was, it was a massive step up for a kid basically, but it was a dream. It was like, this is awesome. But I was still very much, you know, the team were on their table for dinner and we're on our table for dinner. And there was a big divide there because it was an Italian team as well. So, you know, the culture's different, everything's different. Yeah. It's like a scene out of Breaking Away where they're spitting on the American. Yeah. Yeah. You've hit the nail on the head. You never feel you are working, you're part of the same team, you're the same brand, same company, but it's a different

department, you know, and you're in that department and these guys are there, they're the pros in their department. So. Right. But you're moving up the ladder here yeah so so when does it when does the the the filmmaker and you start to come out like where does this sort of transition into you kind of making an indelible mark that is uniquely you well what um is around 2004 2005 um and really what happened there was uh canada Cannondale started playing around with motorcycles. Um, and with that, I got an opportunity to do marketing for, for the moto side of the business. And I just, you know, really the moto side died and I can say now I didn't care one iota for the moto side. I was about the push bike and, and, um, because they

invested so much money in the moto side um the company went into bankruptcy so chapter 11 bankruptcy and uh and then i was a marketing guy and they put everything on on freeze uh the budgets were on freeze and everything like this so they said right mike you've got no budget now um you need to market our product but you can't advertise you can't and obviously when you advertise you have a better relationship with the media because you scratch their back, they scratch yours. And it's not, uh, you know, it just keeps the industry going. Um, that's kind of the way the world works. But, uh, so I sort of sat down and really was like, well, if I've got no budget and you know, what's my job, what am I doing here? I can't, I can't do anything. So

again, I looked and went, well, how can we bring value to the brand? How can we bring value to, uh, to people reading magazines? This was at the time it was, it was more print media. And I sort of, sort of scratched my head and said, well, okay, well, how about I go to the UK and pitch an idea to a big magazine and say, let's go and ride, say 10 big climbs in the UK and make a feature on it and we'll bring some value to your readers and we'll give you uh some exclusive free content and uh you know if you like it that's cool and uh you know that was that was really the that was the first time i thought up until that point you know you're being creative you're you're trying to do a good job but then my back was against the wall because it was like resources were taken away so i was like well i want to do

a better job i want to get the brand out there. I want to make sure that we're still in front of every person who reads a magazine. It's interesting how the lack of resources then forged the quantum leap forward. Like all the creativity came out of a lack rather than a surplus. Yeah. I mean, I love trying to take a situation and make something of it. Um, you know, if you, whether you're on the bike and you're doing 50 hours and thinking this can't be done and going, well, hang on a minute, let's just break it down. Let's just

put the pieces of the puzzle and see if we can arrange them and make a nice shape out of it and go like, this actually makes sense now. So I really, really just, uh, sat down and said, okay, look, if I can get some good content, which is, is good for the reader, then the magazine's going to like it. And it's kind of like going full circle. Um, and we, we ended up doing a really nice feature, uh, in a big magazine in the UK. And, and from that, they, they did a follow-up and then we did a reader, you know, toughest climb and we asked the readers what they wanted so it was really interactive and that's that's really i mean it was all print back then really um so the idea was you'd go out and ride these climbs you'd document it you'd film it it would be photographed

you're riding a canondale bike this is yeah i mean this is getting the brand in the media without having to do an ad buy yeah and and just trying to make it offer some actual content that people want to read right now it's it's ads uh serve purpose, but at the end of the day, you can skip over the ad because it's all, we're great, we're great, we're great. And that's pretty much what they say. No, we're great. No, we're better. So I just wanted to say, hey, we're all great, but we're going to go off in this direction and we're going to try and if you want to ride these climbs, then here's how to do it. We'll do a breakdown of it.

Had you been racing throughout? I mean, I assumed you continued to train but like where were you um but when i was in when i was in europe i i did a bit of mountain bike racing and and and continued actually uh there's a really big cyclosportive scene out in europe um and it's very individual and it's all about it's kind of more experience based so you get the front runners and I was I did quite a big sporty series 2004 and it got pretty high up and won a couple of races which I thought was cool but then eventually I ended up moving back in 2005 so I sort of I was racing but most of the time I was, I was taking myself out and just doing these crazy big rides and seeing how far I could go on as

little food and drink as I could, because it was just extreme. And there were these water stops. I remember water stops like 20, 30, 40 miles apart. And could I make it to the water stop without, you know, filling up beforehand and just setting myself personal challenges, which I just always excited me. Right, right. All right. So you're embarking on this idea of, you know, documenting these climbs and getting these pieces out into the media. And so suddenly you're the guy on the bike who's in the magazine. But this is working for the brand, right?

But this is working for the brand, right? So this starts to slowly expand and this kind of creates additional opportunities for you to start working with the guys on the pro team, right? Yeah. I mean, eventually what happened was actually a chap called Marcus Newick, which I met. He's a German guy. And the video side came in. He approached Cannondale through a friend and said, look, I actually want to turn some of the big sort of mountains and courses. And I was doing a lot of sportive. So I was sort of racing to a point in Europe on the sort of mass participation side of things. And he said,

hey, I tell you what, I'd love to make videos. He actually left, he'd be a great guy to have on the podcast. He left Procter & Gamble was you know done with the rat race and he said i'm going to buy a video camera and i want to go and film cyclists so he contacted canondale and we hooked up and uh there was a project in 2000 end of 2006 where he was like hey i want to go and film it tap the tour is one stage of the tour de france which amateur riders get to do each year and he said hey i want to go and film this stage do you want to be the rider and presenter and i was like yes absolutely this is exactly what i want to try and achieve um we linked up and within 10 minutes it was like i'd known him for 10 years it was such an easy relationship he had exactly the same ethos as me just wanted to try and get out there and do

something different and try and help people and uh and we've worked together for sort of seven or eight years or whatever um since uh and that was kind of like where the video stuff started coming in. We started doing our own video projects. Uh, this was actually more behind the scenes. I was still working full time with Cannondale, but then I'd take some holiday or we'd take a couple of days off and we'd go and do these other projects. And really it was, that was the evolution that led to eventually when I when I decided uh actually I need to really go in my own direction from Cannondale from being an employee to hey I'm going to start my own business um I already had some video skills I already had the uh you know

the the numbers behind hey we can do this and Cannondale then went full circle and said okay look we understand what you want to try and achieve from a personal point of view but we actually need a little bit of a box ticked over in this direction. And do you want to make our videos for the pro team now, which we started doing in 2012. So we fast-tracked a little bit. So it was a gradual. We did sort of six years in the background of our own video work just because that was in us and we wanted to try and explore and make these, these, uh, these DVDs and videos and films, which, which could help riders who were going to take on the big challenges for themselves. Of course they couldn't race the tour de France, but they could

do a big event in Italy or Spain or France. So we wanted to be the guys who would say, okay, if you're going to go and try that, it's a life experience. Let's try and help you. Let's try and tell you where the hard sections are or the easy sections or the feed zones. And, and so it gave us that five, six years worth of, um, of knowledge and experience. And I never, I never, never envisaged, uh, working with the pro guys, making videos with Peter Sagan or, you know, Moreno Moza or any of the Cannondale guys. I just, that was never on my radar. And suddenly it was like, you're now a video guy. Okay. Right now you're the video guy. Well, it's interesting those, those LaTOP, you know, kind of all the coverage that you got from that. I mean, you, you go through the cycling magazines and there's you, and you're like pages and pages

of you. Here's how you do this client. Here's how you do, here's how you approach this, like from a very kind of, you know, professorialorial like educational and inspirational you know tutorial for all of these cyclists across europe in the world who want to descend on france in the summertime and and grab their piece of this experience for themselves yeah i mean it's when i look back it's um it's humbling really to to think that just just a dream can turn into something because you just want to. I mean, I was always just inspired just to go and ride and be like, look, if I'm in the mountains, I feel this is just a really good place. You see so much. And to get from the valley to the top of a mountain is a huge achievement.

And I felt so fulfilled every time I would do it, whether it was a good day or I was feeling bad or whether the weather was good or bad or whatever, you, you still have, everyone has a story. Um, and you know, our, our whole sort of ethos and passion was just to try and build something that could tap into the great outdoors again and make life simple for people. And, you know, there's so much content available nowadays, but you just want to have a good resource where you can go, yeah, we trust them. You know, they're going to look after us. And, and that's really the, that's what we're always going to live by. That's what we're going to do. But, you know, it is amazing just to think over the years, you know, the, the, the pages in the magazine and the projects we've worked on and just the opportunities which have evolved, which have been good just, just by purely getting out there and having the desire,

you know, it wasn't someone saying, actually, if you do this, then that might happen and then that'll lead to this. No, we just got on and said, this is really, really what's in me. This is just what it's all about. Yeah. I mean, when I look at your path, I see a lot of faith. I see a huge work ethic. I see a tremendous amount of passion and I see trust. I mean, just to kind of back it up, you know, you could have stayed at Cannondale and had an amazing job that was really well within the realm of, you know, what you're passionate about. And I think most people probably would have held on to that job and continue to kind of ascend through the ranks there. And you reached a point where you said, no, it's time for the next evolution. It's time for me to kind of take a step, you know, into the unknown and trust and

have faith again. I mean, what was that, you know, thought process and what motivated you to then, you know, take a leap again? Well, you know, yeah, you are right. I absolutely, from the outside, the whole Cannondale world, it was absolutely a dream come true from a very early age. But I'd worked with those guys as an employee for 12 years. And the whole evolution really came from, obviously, the background which I'd had but you know 12 years down the line it was like I just didn't feel that this was everything which I could have in my life like not just for me but just like it's about being able to like look back and say you know what I tried to get the most out of myself for my own reasons, but also for what I believe I can achieve

as an individual to bring something which is bigger than just me. So it was a case of sort of saying, you know, I can, I can work for this, this company, I can work and do everything. And yeah, we're stable. We're enjoying it. We've got a, you know, good, um, yeah, yeah, just good salary and good benefits and everything. But it was like, yeah, but that's not what life is. It's not that I need to do what's what I feel is really within me as an individual. And that was to make a leap. And, and at the same time, you know, the goal, which I had the dream, which I had was to build something which, you know, I was 100% passionate about 100% had great faith in that, you know, I could use my skills for the last 10 or 15 years, which I developed to,

to try and better the world of cycling in, in some respect. And, uh, but that also meant that I couldn't do it on my own. So I had to, had to drag my girlfriend out of her job for, she'd been with a big corporate organization for over a decade. And, you know, we sat down and said, hey, you know, looking at what we've done, could we make a business of this? I had a couple of sort of epiphany moments, really, which inspired me just to say, you know, it's now or never. I've just got to do it now or never, or I'm just going to get more frustrated at not being able to use my potential, uh, to do what I think I can do. So what was it that was lacking in the Cannondale job? I mean, when you say you weren't, you weren't able to, you know, realize your potential, what about, you know, what did you feel, you know, your potential was driving you towards that was not available to you in that job? I think with, I think it was just a lot of it was I'd been doing a similar job for a long time.

And, you know, I knew it. I had it absolutely dialed year on year. I knew all the guys in the industry, the media guys. I knew where I'd be almost every week of the year. I knew what trade shows were coming. And some of my ideas were important to me, but in terms of the whole global picture, they basically, a lot of the time,

they would have their own, look, we're launching a new product or we're going in a different direction on something else. So it was very, very difficult because ultimately I'm paid to do what they tell me. You know, hey, get on, do that. Yep, I'll get on and do it. Yep, it's done.

You know, that was my job. And I was sort of saying, well, I can actually bring more value to a business, to a company, to a brand, if you just let me off the lead a bit. And I can fulfill what I think I'm actually capable of. So it was probably, you know, in answer to your question, it was a time thing. And really, you just can't, I mean, when I was a kid, I just thought I'm never going to work for a company more than two years, because I'm just going to be bored of it. I just need to evolve and experience more.

And then, you know, I worked for British Aerospace for a couple of years. And then when I got the job with Canada, I thought, well, I'm probably going to be here for life. And then 12 years down the line, I'm like, because they gave me so much experience. I owe them everything, really, because they gave me so much great experience. But then I could use that experience and go hey if we do this a little bit differently we can do more we can help more we can you know involve uh the brand in other areas it's not just racing with there's a lot of cyclists out there how can we touch them how can we reach them how can we talk to them

so you know it's just uh yeah I've just felt there's no way that you could do that working for a brand. You have to evolve and try and work for yourself because there's a lot of other brands and companies and businesses out there. Like we've tried to build something where we tap into a lot of different brand resources and, um, you know, we represent a lot of different companies. Um, and if you, you can't, you can't do that if you're tied to one brand. So you have to be independent. Right.

So before you left Cannondale, did you line up what your gigs were going to be or did you just cut the cord and try to figure it out? No, I'm not as spontaneous as that. I'm a bit more... You're a mechanical engineer, so you're plotting this whole thing out. Yeah, I haven't got...

I'm not like, hey, let's just go and leave everything. I mean, Deb, my girlfriend was, she was working with Mercedes for over a decade. She was, you know, corporate life. She had all the trimmings which you'd want from working 50, 60 hours a week for a decade. And, you know, she got to a level where we couldn't, you know, we couldn't just down tools and just say, hey, we're just going to give this a go and see what happens. Because there was too much riding on it. I mean, there's a lot you can absolutely applaud people to just say, hey, I've got a dream. I'm going to make it work.

But we'd built so much experience from one side that I knew in my heart and my mind that I could use this if I could harness it properly. in my heart, in my, my mind that I could use this if I could harness it properly. Um, but the great thing is weird. Um, or I'd been personally sort of working with a lot of companies. Um, say for example, if we were launching a product, uh, the guys at Mavic, a French brand, um, they realize, Hey, you're on, you can get into a magazines a lot, you know, you do a lot of stuff outside. So do you want to use our wheels or our shoes or so on and so forth? So I built, um, some really strong brand relationships over the last five or six, seven years. Um, and then I remember I went to a big trade show, September, 2011, um, after the Pyrenean ride. Uh, and that was the moment where I, after that ride was just like absolutely i you know i can't i can't just do what i've been doing for the last sort of decade um and i went and scouted around

and said to a lot of brands all my my sort of um product sponsors hey you know i've got this dream i've got this vision if if i can if i if i leave the the mothership of canada or so to speak and start my own thing am i gonna catch my fall are you gonna be part of this or so to speak and start my own thing. Are you going to catch my fall? Are you going to be part of this or whatever? And I could gauge it a bit. So, you know, it was, it was a,

it took another probably eight, nine months from, uh, what was that? September, 2011 to finally say, Hey, we're going to,

we're going to set the business up and go for it and run with it. And after we'd done the numbers and right, right, right. I mean, I think what I'm getting at, what I'm, what I'm trying to,

what I'm driving towards is an outsider can go online and go to coal collective.com or go to your website or go to youtube watch your videos or read me these magazine articles where basically it would appear from the outside observer that you spend your free time riding up the alps and and appearing in magazines, wearing really nice cycling gear and riding a really nice bike and seemingly well-fed somehow, right? And like, how do I have this? How come this guy has this life? How does he have this life? Like, it looks really cool. And you've created this amazing, you know, sort of personalized situation where you're able to make a living in a very creative and athletic way. Like, I always look at the world like, I've said this before on the podcast, but to me, like growing up, there were artists and there were athletes, but never the twain do these two meet.

That's a good one. Right? You know what I mean? Like, there's the guy who's in the AV club or he likes to draw, and then there's the guy on the basketball team, but those guys don't hang out, right? And what I love about you and your story and what you do is you've melded these two worlds. You're an incredibly successful athlete, prolific athlete. You're also incredibly creative, and you're an artist in what you do. And that's a really cool thing. And it's a, it's a rare thing. And so when I look at that, I'm like, I can see somebody saying, I want to,

I want that life. How do I do that? And, and why I wanted to kind of unpack your whole, you know, kind of origin story, for lack of a better word, is that, you know, this didn't happen overnight. You know, you were an engineer at British Aerospace, and then you worked for Cannondale for 12 years. And then you made sure that you had everything lined up before you made this leap. So this is, you know, this was a long road. This was your, you know, this is your road to Mont Blanc in your career, right? Like this is your 21 mountain pass of your career to get to this unique kind of situation. Yeah, I mean, yeah, thanks for the compliments.

I mean, it's good that it's recognized, I suppose, uh, because as you say to the outside world, I mean, I have a lot of people and they will say, you live the dream life. And I say, absolutely. I, you know, Facebook is the dream life. You see what I do on Facebook and, you know, on Twitter. And of course I live the dream life. You don't see it when I'm at home and I'm, and Deb's peeling me off of the floor because I'm like, I can't, this is just getting too much because we're juggling all the time. We're plate spinning. And you've got, you know, work which we do with Cannondale, we do with Mavic or another brand. But it's a complete lifestyle since I was, I would say, you know, when I was racing as a schoolboy, that was where the passion started.

And then when I started with Cannondale and, you know, I never looked at how many hours I was working because I was just like, I just want, this is what, if I work super, super hard, if I just put all of my energy, which is in me, uh, as a person, as a, into what I believe in, this is what a hundred percent what I believe in. Then of course there's no failure in that because this is what I believe in. So, and that was the course I took really with my whole life, uh, just to, yeah, just to do what I really was in my, my, uh, my inner being to, to try and bring to life. And that was, I mean, I, I wouldn't even like to guess how many hours that is because it's, it's weekends, it's after work, it's everything. Uh, but to try and put all the pieces together, I mean, it's not a simple thing. It looks like a simple thing. Like, look, we've got a, we've now got a product, for example, with the coal collective. This is an education platform,

which we've launched just late last year. And it was really looking at everything we've done from a video perspective. And I felt very inspired when I'm in the mountains. So I said, Hey, let's try and bring these mountains to life and the biggest mountains in the world and try and help people get to the summit of them. But that project, even so, I know I can do a good job, but the brands don't. The brands can go, yeah, but this isn't top of our project list. And you want an investment in this? And I mean, we're working with over 10 brands on the project, but every brand has to have a different meeting and they ask different questions. And, and it's like, we've, we've got, uh, yeah, the kickbacks and the, the, the sort of fundraising, which tries to go with just getting to a stable level where you can try and achieve something that you believe in.

And it's so much, so much time and effort and energy. And you just, sometimes you just say, Hey, you know what? I'm better off. Let's just go back to work because it's so much easier just to, just to do the, do the norm. And then I'm like, it all looks very sexy. Like, Oh, you run your own business and you make these cool, the Cole collective for the listener who, cause we haven't talked about it yet. The Cole collective is your educational video platform for taking people through all of these mountains. Like how, how do you climb these mountains on a bike? What, how, you know, how do I approach this? What am I going to see? And they're

beautifully done. And the level of detail is exquisite. Uh, and so, uh, it's easy to look at that and go, well, that's a great life, but yeah, you, you have to make this happen. You got to figure out how it's going to get paid for, how you're going to make a living doing it. And you're living and breathing this all the time. And anybody who, you know, rides a thousand miles across the Alps and spends their time making videos of this quality caliber level is somebody who's not afraid of hard work, right? And I think that's what people don't see. And we're in a culture right now of immediacy and entitlement and the kind of what you hear about the millennial generation. We talked a little bit about this on the bike the other day, you know, and i've spoken about this before this sort of

hack culture like how do i get how do i get 80 of the results for 20 of the work and that's not the path yeah i mean my my sort of biggest takeaway when it comes to the whole life hack thing is uh my life hack is just go the long haul. And because what I realized with the Pyrenean ride, which I did in 2011, sort of just backtracking a little bit. I mean, I'd worked so hard to get to that point. And there's reasons why I really just felt at that moment in my life that I had to go and do. That was my first big challenge where I just went completely into the unknown. It wasn't a race. It wasn't an event.

You know, there was no one at the side of the road, like, cheering you on. There was no one at the end. There was nothing. There was me, my girlfriend and two friends just supporting in a vehicle. And I said, Hey, I just want to go and ride from the Atlantic to the Mediterranean straight across the Pyrenees. And I, because, because I just, I just had to do it at that moment in my life. There was something so strong inside me that made me want to do that. And, you know, that was sort of the first part of like how we got onto the trajectory of the whole big challenges. And the thing is, it's like I got to the end of that ride and so many things made sense. And I, but I'd probably put in 10 years of work to get to that. And then suddenly within 30 hours, I was on the bike and i got to the

end of that and i said to myself that 10 years makes sense now i can see the future if i hadn't put the 10 years worth of hard work in i wouldn't have seen the future i wouldn't have seen like i can do this i've got the the confidence i'm i'm very much like i need to maybe it's the engineering part of my brain but i need to put the black and white down on paper. I cannot, I mean, when I was racing as a schoolboy and that, I knew I had to do, even from a young age, I had to do the training. I couldn't wing it. I couldn't blag it. And when you get up to 1,000K across the Alps, I mean, there's no way you can blag that.

I had to do the hard training, the hard training. Yeah, you can't cram for that and you can't fake that I had to do the hard training, the hard training. Um, and that, you can't, you can't cram for that and you can't fake it. Exactly. But at the same time, I don't, I don't actually, my personality is I don't want to fake it because that is what makes it genuine for me. It gives me the confidence. I know that if I put the hours in on the bike or in the, into the business, then I should be able to do this. And, you know, as soon as you take that element of let's try and do the, the, the, the hack and get you there on a quicker, I think the, the, the whole life hack thing is, is everyone lives in a super busy world now, you know, it's getting more and

more chaotic. Um, so quite rightly, people are trying to pack more into their busy lives, but just taking one step back from that and sort of saying, what is it in you that makes you happy? OK, and for me, I found that was the bike. And from that point is like, well, why do I want to hack that? I want to spend more time. I want to do it the right way. And of course, you can hack to a certain point. But are you going to be revving the engine too much?

And then are you going to have a blowout? And, you know, or do you want to take it nice and steady and build and build and build and build? have a blowout and you know or do you want to take it nice and steady and build and build and build and build and i mean i'm absolutely astounded at to get from you know the passion of riding a bike to then making a career from it for one not as a racing cyclist uh and then to these crazy challenges which everyone says you're insane you're never going to make it to actually achieving it and going like wow i'm actually did that it's it's really surreal, but it's just been a slow, steady process of buildup and put the work in and put the hours in. Right. Yeah. I like what you had to say about life hacking. I mean, and I think that my

message on this subject gets confused or misinterpreted at times in that I'm not against trying to find efficiencies in your life. And I agree, we're inundated with so much stimuli and our lives are becoming crammed with more and more obligations and duties and we just get spread so thin, right? So how do we manage that? And I think that to the extent that life hacks are about shortcutting or finding efficiencies in sort of the, I don't want to say non-essentials, but like not the core aspects of who you are and what you're trying to pursue in your life so that you have additional time to more fully invest yourself in the one thing that you are most passionate about. So to use your example in your cycling or in your

filmmaking, right? Like to avail yourself more time, more brain output to go into that one thing that you're most passionate in. So you can be more invested, more devoted to that one thing. Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. I mean, there is an element of, okay, look, if we hack this side of life, then we have more time elsewhere, which is fair enough. But, you, um, you know, my, my overall, my, my personality ever, ever since I was a kid, as I say, I remember when I was at school and actually college and, you know, you'd sit in a lecture class and not have a clue what the lecturer, the teacher was saying. And you just think, well, how on earth am I going to get through this exam? And like, it just doesn't make sense. And then I'd just go back home

and this is just the way I am. And I'd just sit and I'd read the book until I understood. And it would take hours and hours and hours. And I could say, hey, I could hack it and I could do a quarter of the work and I could still pass. But I just, I wanted to pass well.

I wanted to get a good grade. I wanted to, so I, but the great thing was- You're a good boy, Mike. Yeah, but it was more, it was like I could, if as long as I understood the theory behind it and all the hardest moment was trying to understand the theory and then the theory of whatever it was I was working on. And what's the theory of why we're all here? Hey, the theory of why we're here is like, let's try and do as best we can with what

we feel is, is, is our, our calling, so to speak. And that's, I'm never going to be able to hack that because I'm going to just be cheating myself. And so at the end of the day, that's how I feel about it. Right. Interesting. The other thing that I like about your story and your leap kind of away from Cannondale and into doing your own thing is that there's an aspect of giving back of service in that. Like, how can I help people? How can I inspire other people to, you know, embrace this thing that I love so much?

Like, how can I share this better? Yeah, I mean, that's absolutely, for me, that's the number one objective. Because I think the outside world, what I enjoy, what I experience on the bike, the what I enjoy what I experience on the bike the moments I've I've had with friends on my own with family everything you know it just it makes it puts everything in perspective for me I can go out and be completely muddled and uh feel that things aren't going in the right direction I've got no creativity I just feel completely you know

everything's on top of me and the world is turning black. And as soon as I go out and then see some of the good, some of the good times and, and just ride and get that energy out and start feeling good again. And, and that was every single time I go into the mountains, you go like, it's just a complete untapped world that, you know, if I, I think if I feel like that, I'm thinking, crikey, if I can make other people have the little element of that and believe that they can do something like, untapped world that you know if i i think if i feel like that i'm thinking crikey if i can make other people have the little element of that and believe that they can do something like i'm not saying go and ride 21 mountains that's absolutely ridiculous anyone who wants to go and

do that because it's just you've got to build up to it whatever but it's uh but if you if you want to just go and ride one or if you want to even just start riding a bike in general just to feel the fresh air and and what it can do for your health and well-being then's what we want to try and do. And actually what was interesting is with the whole project, which we're doing now is just trying to involve all of the brands and everything. So it's more, we've got great, a great, uh, collection of, of companies who represent all different areas, whether it's, uh, nutrition or, or training camps or holidays or product or or and i wanted to try and bring all this together so you know we can manage it but you can go to one resource and try and go hey these are the guys are going to help if you're into that side of the sport if you're into cycling i can

ask a question on nutrition or i can say hey what did you actually eat when you rode across the mountains like you know this is fascinating tell me and know, we've got all the, all the, all the pieces of the puzzle in just about an order to, to really offer a, what we hope is a valuable resource. Um, and it sort of saves people. Maybe, maybe we're helping people hack their life so they don't have to go all over the internet looking for the answer and they can come to one resource. So, you know, life hacks are good. So what is it about cycling that's so alluring to you? I mean, what is it that you get out of it? I mean, explain this relationship to me.

Yeah, I mean, okay, let's just go back to when I think about my first moments on the bike. And straight away it was with running you can get so far. And, you know, swimming is another thing you don't see much when you're swimming so and then I mean I swam I played loads of soccer football when I was at school and and that was I mean yeah that was a great childhood upbringing and you know I loved kicking the ball around at school but but it was that was the team aspect and it was my older brother who said he got a bike and he said hey you want to do a bit of cyclocross racing and i said well what's this about and and it was the first moment that i felt that everything i put in was was giving me the result so if i didn't put

the work in hey i couldn't blame someone i couldn't point the finger at anyone and it was just the pure escapism and freedom you could go so far on the bike. You know, I could go into three different counties from where I lived in one day and ride a hundred miles when I was, I mean, I remember there was, I was always the youngest of our group. So you grew up like an hour outside of London. Yeah, about an hour, just on the edge,

on the South Coast, but just on the edge of the New Forest. And we've got a few rolling hills, but it's flat as anything really compared to where I really like to go to go well everywhere is flat compared to where you like to ride your bike exactly the santa monica mountains are flat compared to what you pretty rolling those little bad boys but uh it just came to it was just the the essence of freedom which i had um and just exploring i mean i had some of my fondest memories when I was abroad,

just literally just writing down village names on the top tube of my bike. And back then, life was simple. It's like we didn't have tools and power meters and all these fancy gizmos. And it's actually funny, really. It reminds me I had all that equipment. I mean, I've got to use a Garmin now because it just tracks how far you've gone in time. But, I mean, I took the power meter off. Yeah, I noticed that when we rode the other day that you didn't have a power meter on.

You want to buy a power meter? I might, actually. Okay. I mean, I think from a pure performance aspect, you know, these tools are amazing. They really are about, you know, you can monitor your performance and you can make great gains and you can see where your gains are made. But for me, like I was just looking at a black box on my handlebar. Right. It's sort of like staring at your phone all the time, right? It's taking you out of the moment.

Yep. And I'm and I was like, I can't do that. I just can't do it. I want to and this is what you'll see in some of the new videos that we've got. Like I want to say to people, you'll see, hey, I'm sat looking at a waterfall. I'm trying to meet the nature on the mountain. We're just enjoying it for what it is. that we've got like i want to say to people you'll see hey i'm sat looking at a waterfall i'm i'm trying to meet the nature on the mountain we're just enjoying it for what it is right you're not trying to hit the strava k-o-m for we're not racing you're stopping and you can do that of course it's like it's awesome but it's like we're just saying i would probably say you know 98 of

people are going to go out there and they just want to make it to the top and they want to see it and they want to go wow and hopefully our little essence will help them and they'll go yeah okay i don't feel out of my depth because i know that this is the hard section i know that this is a bridge coming up or whatever because mike told me all about it and then he's been lying there's nothing like that i think this is an interesting kind of place to camp out a little bit, this intersection between kind of online and analog living, right? Because you make your living kind of online, social media and videos and YouTube and all of this. And yet kind of what you speak to is about being unplugged, right?

So you have to kind of navigate both of these worlds. And this is something that I'm always trying to balance and I struggle with. And if you listen to the podcast, people that are listening out there know that I did this like iDetox where I took like the social media off my phone. And I'm trying to kind of find the boundaries and the balance in all of these things because I live online also. And my living is sort of dependent on that. And yet I don't want to be – I want to have a responsible relationship with those two things. And I want to be able to put it down and go out in nature and just be. Just be, right?

How do you approach that equation? Well, I think I'm still learning 100%. So maybe we can help each other. I'm still learning 100%. So maybe we can help each other. But as the business, as what we've done, online is so prolific. We put something out there and the content that we put out there

attracts a lot of comments and a lot of people wanting extra advice. So as you've said, for our business, it's absolutely fundamental. And it is a really hard balancing act now. You have to be very disciplined. I'm learning more and more about the sort of experiences and trying to discipline myself to sort of switch off from it because it's so consuming now that you actually miss, okay,

if we put a big ride out there, we miss the whole point of the big ride because we're looking at seven inches of glass. And you get that endorphin or oh how many people are looking and how many comments and i gotta you know like you have this you develop this compulsive you know kind of uh behavior pattern around it that's not really very healthy yeah and unfortunately uh my personality i mean rich you may know this uh about you know you can get hooked into things and i'm surprised you're not i'm surprised you're not an alcoholic and a drug addict. To be honest, there's a story there. There is. All right.

Now the podcast has officially begun. But I mean, social question before we delve any further on that. As I say, I think the thing is more and more, certainly what I see and the people which I talk to and have comments from, people are really enjoying the fact that they can escape from what we do. By watching it, they escape again. And I'm going, this is such an awesome feeling because we want people to escape again. We want to try and help them get out there and just be like, just remember when you didn't have the phone, when you didn't have Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, wasn't it simple? Didn't you feel, I don't know what you're talking about. I mean, cast your mind backwards. Come on, let's go back a few years. It's like, but

it was, life was just simple like that. And these tools are, they're really beneficial. They're, I mean, part of our core business, but there has to be a disconnect. Otherwise it just comes, it becomes gray again and your mind i mean the thing is the the social side of stuff has grown so quickly but we're never going to develop our the brain is never going to develop humans are never going to develop to be able to manage all of this technology um and you know i think we looked online the other night and there's courses that people can go on now to sort of educate them on how to disconnect you know and i'm thinking well there's another business for someone now because we create

this stuff and now we create another you know economy and uh industry over here to say hey you know what we're going to teach you how to get off the phone i'm sort of saying well turn it off and go out for a run or you know go and breathe some fresh air and take your kids out or whatever but it's like there's a heck of a disconnect now, which is harder and harder because there's more and more tools available and everyone has them at the push of a button. Of course. I mean, it's only going to accelerate,

which means the onus is more and more on us to create those boundaries and those rules around it. Otherwise, it just infects every aspect of your day. And before you know it, you're not showing up for anything. Your face is just planted in your phone your entire day. And before you know it, you're not showing up for anything. You're just, your face is just planted in your phone your entire day. And that's the hardest, that's the hardest thing. And, but it's, it's so easy to get caught up in that because it's the, it's there all the time. And, you know, I remember actually, uh, maybe

five years ago. Uh, so put us what, like 2009, 2010. Yeah. It was probably around that time. I was never even on facebook and they were on the radio saying oh you know people are addicted to facebook and this and that and i was thinking what what are they talking about this is ridiculous how can you be addicted to something like that yeah roll forward five years and it's like it's part of your business it's part of everything and you know that's it and you know i'm an outdoory person but at the same time it's it's there it's part of the business, but it's just about respecting. I think if you can look at the time which you have available and sort of say, okay, look, here's social time and here's everything else, here's living time.

And I think it's going to go more and more. I don't know. I mean, you know, if I could predict the future, then, you know, that would be great. I don't know what I'd be doing, but it would, you look at it and you sort of say, okay, where are we going with this? And I see more and more, I think people are going to just be putting the phones down and switching off and getting back to the roots of living, which, you know, is what, if we can help them do that, then that's, that's going to be, you know, really super cool to see and see that sort of almost like a little bit of a transition in how everyone, how everyone's living their lives now. Right, right. As long as they're watching your videos and listening to this podcast.

Yeah, exactly. They can do a little bit. We give them a little bit of time when they can do that. That's within their hour or so a week. All right, I want to get to what was going on with you mentally, emotionally, and spiritually to motivate you to do this 1,000-kilometer ride, you know, the road to Mont Blanc

across all these mountain passes uh well we'll get what we'll do is we'll shift back a little bit to to get the process um and you know the nuts and bolts of why I wanted to try and the sort of moments which led me to uh to get to that um you know it's always been in me for exploration. Um, and you know, just pushing the sort of fascination between the mind and the body, um, and how they can work together to just overcome what, what is perceived possible and what maybe is perceived impossible. Um, and my moment really came, I had a, a uh an experience which you said about alcoholism and drugs and you know i had a moment in 2009 and uh you know it was a family tragedy and uh you know

it's hard you know i don't i've sort of black it out now but my younger brother passed away and it would life was great up until that point and suddenly there's a big black hole it's like what are you talking about he's 26 years old and what happened uh he well yeah i mean it's it's complicated but uh essentially he was on medication and uh it was the process of that medication which didn't agree with him uh for anxiety and a bit of stress. He was running his own company from 18. And through some medication which he took which didn't – really didn't – he was very, very sensitive to medication and so on and so forth. Like anti-anxiety or anti-depression medication?

Like an anti-anxiety. or anti-depression medication? Like an anti-anxiety. And ultimately that led to his demise. And, you know, it was one day he was with us and, you know, we're having a great time. And there was a Thursday and then Friday, mom phones up and say, your brother's passed away. It's like, what are you talking about?

And I'm like, you know, that for me put everything, my life just was for a year just was just, I mean, it's hard even to remember it because I just, I had to just try and just deal with it. I mean, no, but he, so he, but he took his own life. Okay. Yeah. And, but, but it was, you know, the thing is, if you knew, if you knew how he was like, God, he was the smartest guy. We had a real similar personality, super clean living. And it was, it was just a, it was just a moment.

body that don't agree with you and it takes you out of the moment and you know you wake up or you don't and it's like well so you know and that was a really i mean i'm still like six years down the line it's like god i'm nowhere near over it but it's like this is part of the journey which i went through and uh and i had i was really you know how do I get over this? You go through the questioning, you know, the unknown, the whys, the anger, the frustration, you know, all these things you go through. And but the end of the day, it's like you live for, you know, what people would believe is the right thing to do. And he and I always drew a lot of strength from like he knew how much I loved him and also and also the, uh, you know, what I stood for as an individual and you, you, you try and get over it. But there was that many months of blackness where, you know, I just thought I'm either going to go, I can go in one direction, which is going to be where I am now, which I think

is a good direction. Or there's a direction where I don't know what's gonna happen because I've got that typical personality of like let's it's all or nothing and yeah I mean I don't know what that's like but yeah there's a there's a fork in the road right you're gonna have to make that choice at least it was he your only sibling no older brother and he was the younger one so he's the youngest in the family which is even harder because you're like he's 26 year old you say hey you know you just don't i've got no way of explaining like the emotion that you feel just like everything is just dead inside you forever and you just say what what on earth am i going to do now how do you pick yourself up and the problem i had was the only place which i felt

free which was on the bike i suddenly didn didn't feel free. So I would go out and the brain, my brain would just not switch off. And I hated it. I couldn't, I couldn't stand going out. I was just like, I don't want to go out on my bike anymore. It's like, and that was me. And I was like, well, how on earth, this is the only thing which keeps me sane is driving me mental. What am I going to do? So it was, this was the process. The one thing that gives you a sense of self and hope and and a good feeling now is not available to you yeah and it was like i mean you get to the other side of that well it was a year went by and i was like i was just just completely in a like head in the clouds you were there in in body but in mind

you were just you're just not there at all um and everyone was so supportive, um, family, friends, work, you know, that was just, I've got great friends and great support, which is absolutely fundamental in life on everything, not just in a tragic, tragic situation. Um, and this was, this is why, you know, I feel really proud of what we've achieved now, even more so just, just from having a standard trajectory and working hard and, and living clean and doing what we do. But I got to the point, this was so 2009 and, and life was just not right. I just couldn't get over the fact that I couldn't, I didn't have an answer to it and I couldn't work it out. Whereas normally I can work stuff out, like it's black and white, that's on the table. If I do this, I can get that result or I go in that direction.

And I couldn't, I just couldn't get over it. I couldn't work it out. And, uh, and this was, this was where the Pyrenean ride came from. And I said, just, it was, uh, September 9th, 2011, brother's birthday. And I said, like, we're just going to go ride the mountains. I'm back. I'm coming back. I'm just going to ride the mountains and I'm going to go from from Atlantic to the Mediterranean we're just

going to see I just I absolutely if I if I don't do this I'm going to combust uh I'm just going to go and let's just see what happens I just want to go and get feel at one with myself again and uh I'm in the the deepest you know pyrenean mountains just on my own with uh with a little head torch and uh deb's following in the car and a couple of friends just to to support and that was the absolute pivotal moment it was like what is going to happen and and i've never felt so connected to you know the to, to nature, to the world, to my brother at that moment. Uh, and that was a hundred percent when I finished, we, we got to the med and it was like, you know, I can't, now I can't go back to work. I can't go and do, this is what I have to do. And it was,

so I thank, you know, I thank him for giving me the, the extra, you know, the, the extra sort of soul, so to speak of just like this is now what i need to do like this is where i feel the best so why am i wasting time why am i you know uh why am i not progressing what i believe i can do with my with my experience and my soul and my heart and everything and that was the you know the fundamental pivotal moment of of actually let's i said to deb in the kitchen like months later or something, we came back and I just said, do you want to be a photographer? Do you want to try and do this? Do you want to try and pull it all together? We've got great experience. And she had the faith. Well, that's an amazing story, by the way. Thank you for trusting me with hearing that.

And what I love about it, well, I love a lot of things about it, but what really strikes me about it is how little relationship it has to logic. There's no logic involved in this, right? Like you're having this emotional experience and you can't see your way through it. And it occurs to you that you just need to get on your bike and ride it really a very, extremely long distance. That makes no sense. And in the process of doing so and getting to the other side of that, you are blessed with answers that set your life in a new direction and trajectory. And it had nothing to do with sitting down and making a spreadsheet. I mean, you're an engineer, right? This is probably how you're used to solving your problems. Like, how are we going to do this?

Well, here are the options. You know, what are the pluses and the minuses of all of these things? That had nothing to do with any of this. This was a purely emotional, spiritual pursuit that ended up resolving these issues for you and for what your life would then turn into. Yeah, exactly right. I mean, all the time leading up to the Pyrenean challenge,

you know, I'd learned a lot. The experience was there. It all made sense to a point, but then that coming into the Mediterranean and just being like, I don't even know, I really don't know what, you know, it was just this feeling that it's so hard to explain. It's when you're in the moment, you're a hundred percent present in what you're doing. Every heartbeat, every pedal stroke, every breath, every smell, every, everything. And I was just so in the moment that I just thought, you know, now it makes sense. This is what I need to bring these emotions to other people. And if I can do that and I can help, uh, side and but it taught me that the ten years I've been working taught me so much the 30 hours I was on the bike taught me ten years worth of experience and more

just because I just got out and you know it actually taught me to survive it taught me how to overcome these emotions it taught me how to control my emotions it taught me everything and it sort of maybe putting it out there on the line, um, and going deep into the unknown. I didn't even know, well, when am I going to crack? When am I going to fail? When, when's the body going to give up? Whatever. I had no idea. And that was, it was like, let's just go back to basics. Let's just, if you, if you detach everything and just go and ride, go and run, go and do like, let's go completely back to basics and let's just see how, see what we can achieve. And that was the most purest feeling I've ever had in my life. And, uh, subsequently from that, you know, we took it

away and said, Hey, you know, can we do this? Can I, can I do this as a career? I mean, it seems crazy, but Hey, let's give it a go. And that's, that led to where we are now with the brands that we work with creating content and trying to help and inspire. And, uh, that's all I want to do with respect to these challenges. I mean, there's something about, you know, you're, you're speaking to the purity of them, but when you put yourself in that situation, whether you're riding from the Atlantic to the Mediterranean, you know, where you're going to meet your maker, where you're pushing yourself so hard, you know, to the very edges of that envelope where everything else gets burned away. So whether you're an ultra runner who's running

bad water or, you know, you're doing what you do or you're doing Epic Five, like you truly connect with who you really are and there's no room for anything else. And there's a relationship kind of connect that occurs in that space that is something very sacred and special that I don't know that I've ever been able to fully articulate or describe other than to say that it is profound. It's the moment where everything makes sense. And I mean I have – it's like you take everything back to basics i always sort of come back to that and you strip it back so raw that you can it's like you can tap into your mind so much that it's like you understand what you're thinking instead of just thinking it is like i understand the logic behind it you understand you can feel like everything which i do is like yeah i don't want to take painkillers i don't want to take anything i want

to feel every every hard moment because i'm going to remember that. And it's going to be, it's going to come back and it's going to help me in the future. And, you know, it just, you just strip yourself back to that purity and you put yourself out on the line. I mean, I have no idea. I'm not, the thing is with, uh, with Epic five, with Ultramanan with these challenges with what i do um they're so unknown i mean you have a professional racer and it's it's very much like you put the training in you know you can go that fast you can put out that wattage you're going to get on the podium it's with a bit of luck whereas you take yourself out of that equation and you go into the unknown and it's literally body mind soul spirit and the great outdoors and that's just like for me it's literally body, mind, soul, spirit, and the great outdoors.

And that's just like, for me, that's the, that's the way it should be. That's the purist. That's, that's just because you find out who you are, you find out what life is. And in a very short space of time, you, you overcome things, you know, the mental aspect of it, which is a hugely important part. Um, you can really connect with who you are as an individual and where you're, where you're going to struggle and where you're and how to get over it you solve these problems out on the road or the trail and you know that's a for me that's just a beautiful way to experience sport and life in general so what is the biggest takeaway when you look back on the challenges that you've endured like what if you had to if you had to explain to somebody at a cocktail party in a very concise manner, what are you getting out of this?

I would probably, big question. I think I would say what I'm getting out of it is I learn about my true inner being. It pretty much sums it up for me. It's just about who I actually am. And this is not like, as I say, we don't get to the end of a challenge. I don't finish a challenge and there's not a big fanfare.

There's not a big paycheck. There's not a medal or trophy. There's no one. There's people doing, there's people doing their shopping. Is there a paycheck at all for you? Not a big paycheck, but a paycheck? I never got a paycheck.

Yeah. I mean, look, I think it's important for people to understand that I know that you're a guy who's not doing this for ego. You're doing this to show other people that they're probably overly limiting their own lives. And you do that through sharing. When you're tackling, I mean, look, you're a genetic freak. You can climb these mountains. Like it's incredible. And to be able to watch you do that and then say, hey, I'm going to show you how you can do this too. Like I'm enjoying this. You can enjoy it too. Come with me. I'm doing this for you. This is not about me. Like I'm a vessel through which I can share this thing that I love, this experience. And I want you to like brush up against this too and feel what I'm feeling.

Yeah. I mean, that's right. I mean, it's a case of, I mean, I would feel from my own personal point of view, it's like I've invested so much time, invested so many years. I've had so many great experiences. If I can't give that back, what's the point? What's the point? I mean, you know, like if you can give one person that gift of the same, like, wow, I made it to the top of the mountain or you know what, I've just got myself a bike or just got out the front door. It's like, that's mission accomplished. So it's really about, you know, it teaches the takeaway really is it. I think there's so much more if you just believe in what you could do, if you, but you've actually got to get up off the couch and just try it for yourself. And I mean, you know, you say I'm a

genetic freak or whatever. Well, you know, that's a great compliment. I'll take that any day of the week, but you know, you've been doing it for a long time. You've put your 10,000 hours. Yeah, for sure. But then at the same time, Hey, I wasn't a racing cyclist. I haven't done the tour de France. I haven't done. So from that respect, you put me in a lab and I'm probably pretty normal, but I've got, you know, a mind which is saying, Hey, can I do this? And the heart to say, yeah, let's give it a try. And I think those elements, everyone's got those two elements. You've just got to get them in sync and then, uh, believe in it and try and try and get out and achieve and try something for yourself. And as I say, it's, it can start with the smallest step and often the smallest step is the hardest step. But, uh, made that step as you've seen in your life as well it's like you make the change

make the positive change and see where you'll be and and it's amazing the the things which the body and the mind right from when i was a kid analyzing and thinking i wonder i wonder if the body and the mind work together what can happen and we you know what i finished the finished the road to mont blanc in august and just like i survived it's like that shouldn't have happened I mean I was petrified up until all the challenges I've done up until this one I had a handle of I can ride through one night I can do one night because I've done it before but two nights you sure you're riding through one night on your training rides and you're doing 300 mile training rides. That was a crazy, crazy day. All right. But what, you know, what was like the darkest moment? Was there a, was there a make or

break moment in any of these challenges where you're like, I don't know, I'm ready to pull the plug and quit. And like, how did you see yourself through that? Well, definitely a hundred percent. The hardest moment was in road to Mont Blanc. Um, the buildup had gone well, uh, but I was really, as I say, I was, I think I put it so much extra stress on my body because I was just so nervous about the challenge and it was the real unknown. It was like, okay, if I do another one night through the night, once in the mountains, okay, I've done that. I've done that before, but the two nights was just so much extra stress. Plus the fact that now it's gone from, this is what's in me from an emotional,

spiritual point of view to, I've got brands, you know, investing time and resource and everything to, hey, we've got a project. We're going to make a video. We're going to put yourself out to the world. Which is all great, but it's a lot of extra stress. You keel over on night two.

Or night one. But I mean, going into that second night, I mean, you had to be like hallucinating. Yeah, I mean, the hardest thing for me was in the buildup, I looked at the forecast and it looked pretty horrendous. And I was saying to the key brand, which was supporting us, M Mavic they had the support car on the road and they really they're so in tune with the whole spiritual side of cycling and the

emotion and the exploration and it's incredible to have that support but and I was saying to the guys you know have you seen the forecast the forecast looks terrible like we can do this any practically any day in the summer let's pick a great day let's give me a little bit of a chance to actually make this you know i've put a thousand hours of training in like let's not see me crumble at you know 300 miles in or something and uh and they they said you know we've tried to like move around all the pieces and get the support organized but all the pieces are in place we're just gonna have to go for it and then we look to the forecast they say it's no problem it's only going to rain for half of it and i was like it's half of it's a day it can't you know that's because you're doing these big challenges like let's put it in perspective that's 24 hours i'm never going

to survive that and that's my nemesis the the cold and the wet uh i just my body just shuts down it's like game over i mean i've done wet feet training rides in the uk and like after an hour or two and it's, you can't feel anything. Dexterity's gone. You know, you lose so much, uh, energy, your carbohydrate stores are stripped like that. And you just, you end up shivering and it's just, I'm going to be a wreck. And when I saw the forecast, I was just like, we can't, this is just going to be a, a, a mission to nowhere. Um, all this hard work, all this time. And we got, uh, down to Italy just before the start. Um, we were starting on a Monday and Friday,

uh, both Deb and I have woken up by the biggest, most vicious thunderstorm. It was like the devil had risen from hell and was just ripping down this little cottage that we, uh, were staying in. And it was, we were looking at the

windows just going i mean i was screaming going like if i'm out in that now if i'm in the mountains now there's no way i'm going to survive so it's it's just this is just not this is just a stupid challenge now and it was all that stress and everything and so even before we started it was like how on earth are we going to actually get through this there was never a moment where i felt really really confident and comfortable as i had done in the past um but then we made the decision it was like decision made we are doing the challenge and there's no other as soon as there i think as soon as there is options to change something then there's a way out then you stress and then i went and we all sat down.

Decision fatigue. Decision fatigue, exactly that. And we all sat down and said, are we going to do it or are we going to call it off? And I was like, we are going to do it. There's no way. As soon as someone said, we're either going to call it off or do it, it's not like we're going to postpone it. We're going to call it off. We're going to do it. I said, hey, I spent a thousand hours training this year in amongst running a business and absolutely killing myself to get to where I am like and all the support and the you know that puts a lot of stress on relationships and uh and the business and everything and I said well we're just gonna have to we're gonna have to go for it and the

hardest the hardest point was when the first spots of rain came and I knew that I was in for an absolute hiding uh for the first night because I thought I i don't think i'm going to survive the rain and but it's just incredible again what the mind can achieve and i i look back now and i think we spent seven maybe seven and a half hours in really hard dolomite rain which is which is big you know on the on the descents on the climbs it was you just there's no way thunder lightning you just would not want to be there you wouldn't want to be outside in those conditions and and i look back and i don't remember it being i was just in a zone i was just completely in a in a trance of just like hey i'm

still moving forward therefore i can keep going and just keep going and keep going and we got to the bottom of the stelvio four o'clock in the morning. We'd gone through the valley. And the Stelvio is the highest road pass in Italy. It was about after 330 kilometers, roughly. And I sat on the back of the Mavic car. There was a driver asleep on the front of the car. Deb was sat on the back of the car. And it was a really special moment because we just looked at each other like,

what the heck are we doing? Right. What on earth? So when you approached the the stelvio how many hours had you been riding oh what would i done so that was four in the morning i started at one uh one o'clock in the afternoon so what does that work out to be about 15 hours 16 hours something like that so yeah for the listener i mean the stelvio is a ridiculous time it's also the one the most dramatic to photograph yeah looking down because you can see there's 48 hairpins 48 hairpins but it takes you like uh it must take you about 20 25 minutes to get to the first hairpin you're going up a little drag and and it was oh we were so i was freezing cold and i just said well there's no point changing kit yet i change at the

top and and i just thought we're only we're a third of the way in and this is i mean how on earth am i gonna manage this from a mental physical perspective and i crawled up the stelvio like and i was almost deb was in the support car saying to the one of the mavic uh guy fred who was supporting with us why is he so uh fred was saying why is why is mike so close to the wall why is he so uh fred was saying why why is why is mike so close to the wall why is he so close to the wall and dev's like he's falling asleep he's like he's just he's just conscious and i was totally just just on the edge and that is what brings you to the moment that's what every single pedal stroke every single breath is like you have you're you're only

living for that that second and then you're back in it back in it back on the zone back in the zone and and i made it i mean it the hardest, the hardest thing obviously is the nights to get through the first night. Even the thing is, it's frustrating because you can't bank sleep. Like you can't just go, I'm going to sleep really good for three or four days. And then I'm going to go through two nights. Right. It doesn't work that way. Because you're, as soon as I tried to sleep well, but I, you know, your, the adrenaline's coming, you're anxious and suddenly you and suddenly you get there and your body is saying, hey, it's nine o'clock. I'm going to start shutting down. I'm going to get ready for my sleep time.

It's all these processes that, hey, it's millions of years we've evolved through. I can't go against that. So 100%, you just about freezing and descended down. And I was overshooting the bends. It was real lucky because it was early in the morning, so there was no traffic. And I would wake up like, oh, my God, I've just overshot another bend. Whoa. So you're literally falling asleep at the wheel as you're descending.

Yeah, but I mean, I'm not condoning any of this ludicrous behavior because, you know, and I stopped on the descent of the Stelvin. I said, hey, I need to take a little bit of, I just got to like, I've got to wake myself up. I've just got to, I've got to get to the valley. And I stopped in the valley, Bormio, before we had the Gavia Pass and it was warm down there. So it was coming and it was like, oh, I feel safe. I feel safe. I just had to get that extra couple of degrees warmth and i joke that you know i'm solar powered but it's true as soon

as the sun comes back i was like it took me another two or three hours before it really got warm and then i was like oh okay i can feel i feel you know back in control a little bit i'm over that moment but then the second night was just like there was the hardest i mean i've had a yeah i sort of hate to say it but i've had a couple of hallucinations beforehand in training and they're not fun and then going up for the second night the road to mont blanc the first one i was climbing and i kept uh i didn't i don't know if the support car could see but i kept seeing it was almost like I was trying to duck under something I kept ducking ducking ducking like whoa I'm gonna hit my head

and I realized when I really could focus I got a shot of adrenaline like oh what am I doing what am I doing and I noticed that it was because the sky was so black and I couldn't the focus I couldn't have the disconnect between actually that sky in the distance and where I'm riding right and I was like oh man this is just too much now and then uh an hour or so later I remember I was I was coming around a hairpin bend groveling up I can't even remember what climb it was and I thought that's an awfully funny place to put like a like a lifeboat I think some people have done some real you know they've done a good job that some people are crazy they go and put a boat in their front garden or something.

And it was halfway up a mountain. And as I went past it, this whole thing just disappeared. And I was like, this is not a good place to be in. But you never tipped over. You never fully fell asleep. Or you never really said, I'm done. I got to quit. No, I mean, it would have been, I mean, it's my mind and everything doesn't i don't have a

capacity like it would be someone else telling me like it's over like and i always said like for me it's like it's over when i've crashed i don't want that to happen i don't i don't want to put like this isn't about putting people's lives in danger this is about a challenge and there is a line which you have to draw when it's like this is too much now and the thing is we're it's four o'clock in the morning nobody is on the mountain apart from us if i keel over on my bike hey it's me who's going to get hurt we're not going to jeopardize anyone else the support team i feel for the support team because it's really hard following someone up a climb at four miles an hour five miles an hour it's really hard following someone up a climb at four miles an hour,

five miles an hour for that amount of time, looking at the back of a bike with a flashing light. It's just mesmerizing. And it's like, and I didn't know, I didn't, um, I just, and it puts you into that situation where you're just living for that precise

second again. And, and my mind is just like, how do I, I've just got to keep going. I've got to keep going. Okay. My body,

like I didn't have cramps. I didn't have, I'm working at a pace, which is just like, let's just keep going. It's a survival pace. Um, and then as soon as the, as soon as you get that element of the sun coming up again, it's like you feel just born again. And it's, I came, it was, uh, on the Ober out pass and the sun came up and it was super rich orange light. And I just thought this was the moment where I still had, you know, 300 K to go or something, but it was like everything shifted in a moment. It was from the unknown from months and months and months of, I've got no idea how I'm going to survive this, achieve it to like everything again made sense. And you get into this, for me, it's this, it's, you know, traditional, you could term it as a flow state and it's just

the most connected again, feeling that you have with everything you've lived for, for so long. And when I get into that moment, that, uh, and I think that's your mind is now relaxed up until that point. My mind was just, it was just stressed. It was, and then I'm relaxed. And then when the mind is relaxed, it's like, I absolutely a hundred percent knew that I was, I could do, I could achieve what I wanted to do and I have no pain. There was nothing. It was just pure joy from that point. It was still, it was still hard work, but it was a different, it was still it was still hard work but it was a different it was like i was present in the moment but almost i've described in the past as being just just a just a touch ahead of that moment before it happens you just feel back in control and that it's harder

and harder to find those moments now because it's a progression it gets harder to get into that zone but i remember going up uh so maybe the third or fourth climb before the end and just uh just smiling so much inside because i just knew that i had everything that the right support had my my girlfriend with me which is like she's part of everything which i do it's like life just made sense again and and i just was this is just everything which i've lived for up until this point. And I can't, I can't give any more. I don't want to give any more, but I'm just, everything is just working as it should be. And I'm just, this is it. This is it. We're just going to keep going. Yeah. It's beautiful. I mean, I think what's, what's, what's interesting

is, and you know this because you have so much experience, uh, that when you reach that point where you think you're toast and you just can't go anymore, you're just, how am I ever going to meet you? You have a whole other day ahead of you or whatever. You think you'll never dig out of that hole, but then something, you know, moments go by and suddenly you feel different. So you can't judge that, that low point as being the be all end all of what the rest of the experience is going to be. No, I think that's a really, really good point because I think for the most part, unless you've gone beyond that point, it's more than a bonking point.

It's more than when you run out of energy or whatever. But if you step beyond that, again, if you just try and go, try and just get your mind to just be quiet for a bit and just accept that you're going to push it really far and just don't complain, don't't just just bear with me on this uh everything will be okay but when once you've gone beyond that point of like where i was having the first night in the rain the second night with the with the with the hallucinations and it's like how on earth what am i doing this

is this is the point when the brain is saying right it's over just stop just stop you've done good you've done all right but once you go beyond that, I mean, ah, coming up the last mountain, how on earth I feel good. I feel good. I feel like, I mean, I had a little bit of a knee, a little bit of knee ache, um, probably a little bit of tendonitis, but Hey, you know what? I've been on the bike for 50 odd hours. It's like, you know, but, but really I had no, no pain. It was like, this is because I was just, I think the mind was so in tune with what I wanted to do now. And I believed for the first time in months that we can do it. And I think that's a really important learning curve for everyone just to wherever you think your boundary

is, if you can get to that point, but then step just a little bit further, the whole world opens up again. And it's like, wow, I never had a clue I could do that. So that's amazing. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's definitely true. And I think that's where the faith part comes in, the belief part and the realization that, you know, the body is capable of so much more than you think it can. But it requires you to open yourself up mentally and emotionally to avail yourself of that experience before, you know, pulling the plug before you, you know, before the miracle happens, you know, and when you've experienced that, there's just, there's nothing, there's nothing like it. So when people say to you, like, why do you do that? You know, why are you doing these things? I mean, that ephemeral

moment is priceless. Yeah. It's, it's so hard to explain and try and explain to people because it's a it's such a feeling it's it's hard to put it into a real context and words but uh you know it's just it's like if you could just have the best feeling ever um enjoying something that you truly believe in and you know if you could cup it up and have it any time it's like you know god you'd you'd be able to solve so many people's problems because life would be simple again. But it's like, you have to get that feeling. And it's just the, it's just what makes it make, I think it's what makes all the hard work, the sacrifices, the, the stress, the moments of self doubt, it's, everything comes together. And that's the, that's the purest moment of, I think, which people,

which athletes from every type of discipline out there, and they find that moment and that's what makes the hard work from some extent seem worthwhile, but also gives you that faith to believe that there's more than just what you're doing at that moment. There's more out there and it's pretty humbling to get to that stage. What do you say to people that come up to you and say, I'm amazed by what you've done and it's so inspiring. And I'd like to do something too. I just, I don't know how to, what do I do?

Or how do, you know, what should I do? Or how can I have, you know, how can I experience a little bit of, you know, what you're talking about? Yeah. I mean, first of all, um, and to be honest, we get questions through a lot of the, the projects and activities that we do and content that we put out there, which is, is similar to that. That's, that's what we're, we're trying to, trying to instill that belief. But, uh, you know, I would, I would say, you know, look at where you are now and be realistic about where you are and where you would hope whatever your dream is. It doesn't matter. What is your dream?

Because only there's only one person who can stop that dream coming true. And that's you. So if you want to take that dream, put it on the put on the table, put it out there and just work towards it and say, hey, if your goal is to ride one mountain, okay, well, the first step is I need to look at what mountain that is and break it down and make it, put it into a tangible way that you can just go, okay, I didn't just dream up. I'm going to go and do it, jump on the bike. Let's see what happens years and years and years of just putting a plan together, working towards it. So first of all is like have the belief, have the actual self-belief that the world is out there for, for riding, for running, for everything, for, for business. And it's like, whatever you want to try and achieve,

break it down and start with that first step and say, right, I want to get to the top of a mountain. It might be a local hill. It might be depending on your level. It might be, you know, that mountain might be a metaphoric mountain, right? This can be a career thing. It might be depending on your level. It might be, you know, it might be a mountain might be a metaphoric mountain, right? This can be a career thing. This can be anything. It could be your nutrition, your food, your diet, your, your business. Um, and really, you know, I think what's great is with sport in general, it teaches you so much about not only you as an individual, but how you can apply the hard work, how you can get over the hard times, the moments when the wheels are falling off, the legs are falling off, everything is, is not going in a direction which you would have hoped it to go in. And it's almost like a

fast track into understanding that and being able to adjust where you are at that moment in time and take a, hopefully a good decision and move forward. And, um, as I say, I've, I think, I think that the amount of hours I've spent thinking out on the bike and move forward. And, um, as I say, I've, I think, I think that the amount of hours I've spent thinking out on the bike and having that, that, that free time and just the giving me, you know, the creative side of like, yeah, I come back from writing and just think, yeah, I've got these ideas now, let's get them down on paper. And, you know, it's a, it's an escapism. And, uh, I would just say that really have an end goal, but don't focus on the end goal, focus on the first step, have that end goal is where don't focus on the end goal. Focus on the first step. Have

that end goal is where you really want to try and get to, but make sure it's realistic, but then take that first step. And after the first step, you get the second step and then the third step and, you know, uh, and just really make it have the belief, you know, make sure that it's something which you really believe in. And then I think there's, you've got all the, all the tools and all the assets to, uh, to bring that to life as long as you believe in it. And, you know, it's part of you and you really want to achieve it, then there's no reason why you can't. I mean, I would add to that, that I think a big part of your success equation is what we touched on earlier, which is this idea of how can this be of service to other people? How can,

how can I incorporate what I'm doing into a context that is giving back? Because that seems to be a core component of everything that you do. And it brushes up against how you work with brands. I mean, you've been referencing Mavic throughout the entire conversation. You work with Cannondale, you work with these other brands. And what I see is somebody who takes those relationships super seriously and not for granted and says, how can I benefit these people that are supporting me? How can I really make sure that these people are getting something out of this relationship? I see a lot of athletes, whether they're triathletes or whatever, how can I, they want to be sponsored, right? But they just want the free stuff or whatever, but they're not thinking about it from the brand's perspective.

Like what is the brand getting out of this? What is their ROI? Like how are they benefiting in this equation? And I see you who really – you appreciate that aspect of it and you're looking like I can really help Mavic out. I really believe in this – their products, this brand. I think it's a great brand. I like this company. Like I'm going to do all these things because I want everybody else to see, you know, like how great this stuff is. And, and, and you believe that and you live

it and you demonstrate that in the work that you're doing. Yeah. I mean, that's, um, that's right. I mean, looking at, I mean, I've always looked at it and said, there's a racing element of sport. And if you win a race, then you'll get some exposure. That's great. It's that's only open to such a small amount of people there's a tiny percentage and i was never a prolific winner of like oh yeah you know you're genetically gifted to be a tour de france winner or even rider but i could look at it and say if we do something which helps other people and we put the brands in the right position then they'll have a, like naturally you associate with,

you make friends and you associate with friends and you ask friends, Hey, what's a good product? And because you trust your friends and I wanted to try and take the brands which we work with and represent and I've worked with for many years and I wanted to try and make them friends of everyone which we touch and say, we're offering a free service. We want to try and help you. Okay. You know, these are the products which have personally helped me. And it's a very, uh, from, from my own sort of perspective, uh, I'm really lucky and, and, and, and glad that I'm able to work with the brands which we've worked with for a long time because I've built personal friendships with the brand. I truly believe in them. And a brand can come to us and say, Hey, we want you to do this and this, but it's like,

I have to really have the faith. And they've had to, like, I've had to have used the product and gone like that. I know this product works good. It's like, this really saved my life a few times, quite a few times, in fact. And I know that if I'm in a bad situation, this is a great jacket or whatever it is, or, you know, energy product or, um, so it all comes down to, for me, pure authenticity of like what we're trying to put in front of people. Isn't a, isn't marketing hype. This is just what I use and I've used it for years. And if you go back and look at the history, it's like, I've used these, these products and these brands for, for years and years and years. And I just tried to look at it and say, well, how can we, how can we actually

help these people and put them in, put, put the, these people and put the brand and put the company in and produce project like the, obviously, the latest project with the education and the coal collective is like saying, we've got a complete platform now, which we're going to just try and help you for free. And it's like, okay, you're going to see a few brands, but these guys chip in so that we can actually do it to make your life easier and better. you're going to see a few brands, but these guys chip in so that we can actually do it to make your life easier and better. Um, and it's, it was just looking at it from a different perspective, from a different business perspective on how I could, you know, there's only so many times you can ride 21 mountains and survive. I'm saying, you know, how long is my, how, how long are my legs going to last? And I'm sort of saying, well, I need to, I want to, you're young. How old are you? 35. Oh, whatever. whatever all right i'm getting old it's getting the legs uh but at the same time it's uh no i get it i love it i love it i mean we got to

talk about i'm gonna get crucified if i don't ask you about your nutrition yeah i love it what do you eat when you ride these crazy long things what do you eat during training how does this all work like how you know how do you make it function yeah Yeah, that's been a, it's been a topic. Nutrition has been a topic of mine since I was a super young kid. And, you know, the, the short story is when I was racing, you know, I got into racing sort of 13, 14, 15 years old. And I was, I thought, well, how can I, how can I get faster? So I naturally, you know, chopped out the chips and the processed food and I tried to eat the baked potato and do it all nice and healthily and really fast track on 20 odd years. And I've lived really clean and whole food my whole life, which is quite unique, I guess. And there was a lot of times when I was working with Cannondale and we'd go out for a meal and everyone's having a few beers and they want to, you know, they say, why are you eating all this, you know, rabbit food and seeds and

nuts? And I was like, well, you know, originally when I was actually living abroad, I was, I was still, uh, you know, I was came from, from home. So, you know, I had a home cooked meal, which was great for, for many years. And then when I was cooking for myself, I just wanted to try and keep it as simple as possible. And I was just like, I'm just going to keep it, uh, almost experiment on myself and I'm just going to keep things really simple. And I just bought, you know, good quality whole foods. And, uh, at the time people were like, you can't live on this stuff. It's not possible. And then I live on whole foods. It's impossible. You have to have this process junk. And, uh, so, you know, for years and years and years and years, I sat kind of went against the grain and

was just riding my bike and, uh, seemed to get on well with uh you know i ate um you know sort of a little a little bit of fish every now and again but really it was fruit and veg tons of fruit and veg because i wanted to be a pro cyclist i wanted to be thin and lean and and i thought this is the way you know it's it's uh these are clean foods and i'm gonna do that but i always ate uh a little bit of a little bit fish because i need protein because i've got to get my protein from somewhere i was like okay and i you know i never had a science background in nutrition and i you know i just did it what the thing which is unique with what i've done is everything's just been on feel it's like hey i put this in how do i feel yeah i feel pretty good okay let's do more of that

um that's pretty lazy for an engineer. Yeah, I know. Where's the scientific method in that? I was working out other stuff at the time, probably. My brain was probably muddled with some other equation somewhere. Your sterator power meter. Yeah, exactly. That was driving me crazy.

But yeah, it's interesting. And just over the years, just for me personally for me personally, um, the whole sort of ethical side of, of, uh, what I was doing, I, you know, I was getting a lot out of the earth. I was, I was in the mountains, I was free. And I just thought to myself, well, hang on a minute, if I'm doing, if I'm, if I'm out enjoying, you know, nature as it, as it's intended, I don't want to strip it. I want to enjoy it more. So I don't want to strip it out. So I just tried to try to be as what I thought was as good as I could with with nutrition for forever. And subsequently, you know, years go by, go pass by. And, you know, I get to big challenges. And I mean, I work with a nutrition brand, and I really like them because they're, they're organic. They've got a good ethos. But even those guys, they said, for the big challenges, I mean, I'm really, really simple. It's like we cooked up some organic wraps and filled them with rice.

We made some sweet potato. We put a bit of salt on. And, I mean, those guys, they make uh energy bars energy gels energy drinks they make the traditional really good quality uh product for um the sort of racing cyclist i guess the guys who want the quick quick energy and i'm sort of saying well that's not that's not what i'm about i'm gonna have to try and right fuel myself and sugar i mean i don't i just don't do gels you can't well there's no way you could do what you do but even when i was even when i was younger just because it was i mean they were expensive when i was a kid and you don't have support and you think well okay i'll just make a jam sandwich or something you know it's

like you you know it's that it's just keeping it simple at the end of the day and and sort of as i say fast forward uh to to the challenges and things like this and the great thing is the the guys which i work with um for for support with said, yeah, for what you want to do, you need some proper solid food. They're not trying to blind. They're not saying, Hey, take our product because we need to see it on the bike and you doing this and this and this they're genuine people. They want to see someone try and achieve something. And that's why I like working with brands who are authentic. They have a, you know, good ethos. And, um i i survived for i mean my my predominant diet is fruit veg um i'm now plant powered which for the last just over a year and

that came about thanks to rich roll podcast about telling me more exactly about how the proteins in plants i don't need to take on the animal protein and i and it was really that was a junction in my life as well where i was getting so confused with people saying you can't live on the plants you can't live on the fruit and veg you're eating too much of that stuff you need to get some red meat inside and iron and all this and i said i was getting really confused with it i was thinking i want to please can i make my life? We're getting bombarded with social media. I'm trying to run a business. I've got challenges. I'm trying to do deals with brands. You know, I'm spinning as many plates as I can and hoping that they're not going to fall to the floor. And then there's the big

thing, which is fundamental in everything is food and nutrition. And I thought, Oh God, I'm getting a real headache with all of this. And then, you know, I actually listened to, uh, to the podcast and so many things made sense, which I'd done in my life from a kid about, you know, eating the way I had, um, about actually the health benefits about how the fuel is burnt in the body about the, uh, uh, you know, sort of reversing diseases and not adding to the, uh, to the potential of, of, of developing these diseases and cancers later on. And I came away and went, oh, geez, this is so easy now. And I cut out the dairy, I cut out meat, and it was such an easy decision because it felt so good and so clean and so pure.

The only ingredient I was missing was someone to tell me that I didn't need the proteins from the animal products because the plants, the way it's synthesized, if you have a good whole food diet, then you can get that, that protein from the plants. And, and I, you know, as I say, I, I, I didn't have that up until that point. So, you know, it's been a real, it's been a great journey, but I mean, I've always had that healthy outlook and now I'm on this level and it hasn't really, really hasn't felt, I haven't felt better, any better. I haven't felt, you know, up until that point, I'd say I was getting confused. And then now, as soon as I'd made the decision,

hey, this is what I'm going to do, I've just felt so good because my mind didn't have something to worry about. Like, oh, I'm thinking about something else and I should be doing something. Once again, the decision fatigue is removed. But where the rubber meets the road is, how do you feel? Like, how is it working? Like, how do you feel on the bike? How do you feel like your power is? How are your climbing legs?

Do you notice a difference or, you know, any of that? Yeah. I mean, I straight away just from, um, from cutting out the, I mean, as I say, I really was, I classed myself vegetarian. I had a, a little bit of fish in my diet, but it was, it was just to keep people happy. It was like, yeah, okay. I have some fish, no worries. You know, you're all good. You know, but I didn't strike me as a guy who, who takes actions to, who spends a lot of time worrying about what other people think. No, not really, but probably my folks, you know, you've got to keep those guys happy. So, but yeah, I mean, what, yeah, I just, I just straight away, I think I'm sort of testament to how much you can push your body through this type

of lifestyle. And I mean, I didn't, I didn't ever, um, go, you know, full bore on, on the, the sort of drinking side of stuff. And I always lived a healthy life. So I can't just say, Hey, this is a paradigm shift. This is what it is. I've always lived healthily. Um, and I've always respected my body. It wasn't like you were eating McDonald's. No. So I don't have a definite like, Oh, I feel so much better because I've made a massive change. I've literally cut a couple of things out, but now it makes my mind feel so much better. It makes me feel better as an individual from an ethical point of view. It makes me, uh, you know, really, you know know there's so many great stuff which we can cook up and and just make life so much simpler and with the challenge i mean i really i lived on uh the

sort of rice wraps which we made um coconut water and a little bit of cereal um just trying to think about a lot of water and i mean i got to the end i had no stomach issues, no GI issues, zero, zero, zero, zero. And it was like this. And I know for a fact that if I'd had a bunch of gels and stuff like that. Oh, you'd be throwing up like crazy. There's no way. It's game over. This is so funny when people say, I was doing great in my Ironman until this or that, and

I couldn't stop throwing up. And it's like, hey, you had 30 gels. The thing is, that makes me laugh a lot because I shouldn't laugh, but break it down again. If you, you know, you were talking about if someone came to you and say, Hey, how can you get to your goal? You want to take the step forward. And you sort of say straight away, marketing, marketing is so powerful. It's like, you need to have the gels and the Gatorade and this and that and the other. But if you break it down, okay, those things are made for fast, short exertions. And the pros, the pros are that much more efficient so they're going to take that much less and then they're also pinning it they're at their they're at they're at threshold

for that amount of time it's a different situation and then you go okay well what someone's going to be out there 16 hours maybe or maybe more and they're going to be bunging them in every 20 minutes it's like god he just can't be done so i was even on the recon we we played around with rice and chickpeas and bung a few nuts in and just tried to keep it as easy as possible. And there was not one moment where I just thought I'm lacking something. And I think the amazing thing is also from a palatable point of view, it was just like I was still wanting up until actually where about 40 plus hours in that's the moment where i'm like now i feel

totally in control that's where and then i don't even feel hungry probably because i've taken on you know i'm regularly feeding and then it's just the whole body and mind for me is just completely in sync and uh i just think if you're if you're really really really pushing the boundaries then uh certainly clean living i've I've felt from the whole plant powered, um, uh, way of living the last year. Uh, I've really never felt, uh, never felt better. Um, although I, you know, full disclosure to, to your listeners, uh, I did some, the first time ever I did some, some blood tests just before the road to Mont Blanc because I was feeling really stressed out and, you know, I just wasn Blanc because I was feeling really stressed out

and you know I just wasn't myself I was just like what's going on my I can't cope with the simple tasks I was just the business was was a lot of work to be done there's a lot of training to be done and uh you know the I can't really I mean I've made a few adjustments I've upped uh you know fat intake I was always like oh fat is the enemy still and you know so really really looking at the healthy fats the omegas the nuts the seeds uh the nut butters i've upped a lot in my diet and the thing is the results i got back were taken when i was at the absolute extreme part of my training so i know you depleted like what did it show yeah i mean it just said like you know high high cortisol level lower. And it was all based around fatigue. But the thing is, of course, I'm in the last big block of my training.

I was riding 35 hours a week, training 35 hours a week, even slightly more on the really big week, still working 100%. You know, we run a business. We can't just say, hey, I'm out a week. We run a business. So, I mean, and I said, yeah, okay, those results, if you look at them, you'll go, well, you need to do this and you need to eat some of that. But, hey, I was absolutely stripping my body. I was trying to get to a certain weight for the challenge. So, you're putting so much stress on everything.

So, I can't take that as a, you know, as a fair synopsis of my being. And I feel much, you know, after that, you know, the training backed off and the stress levels came back to where they should be. But, uh, you know, I would just, I just think really it all comes down to diets in general. Um, and it's kind of a, it should be simple, but there's so many, there's so much conflicting, uh, research out there now that if you want to eat paleo, you'll find something which says it's the best diet. If you want to eat plant powered, you'll find something that says it's the best diet. If you want to eat junk food, you'll find something somewhere which says, Hey, this is great. But you know, it's like you have to, for me,

it was a case of what feels right for me. Um, and that was always the healthy side. Um, and now I feel even better just purely because, you know, I know that I can nourish my body. You still have to pay attention to it, but there's just such good quality, uh, clean food out there. Um, and it's getting more and more accepted as well. And you look at the ethical side of it and say, I want to enjoy the planet. I want to enjoy the world. I don't want to strip it bare. That's a selfish attitude for me. But it starts with the individual because you can't just tell someone do this because as it, but they believe they're under the impression that if they do it, their health is going to suffer, right? Like, oh, I would do that.

But like, if I do that, I'm going to be unhealthy. So I'm unwilling to do that. So to come to a place of realization that you're not actually sacrificing your health and that someone like yourself could go and do these crazy challenges that you've done eating this way. And you look perfectly fine right now. You're breathing. I feel good.

I feel great. It's like, oh, wow, okay. I don't have to sacrifice that. And I can do this thing that tastes good and it's more sustainable for the planet. It's more, you know, just, I don't know. But it's a personal thing, right? Does it agree with you? Yeah. I mean, I think there's also the, the aspect from my situation. I mean, we're all a product of, of what we're told in the media and we're preached to for many years. And, you know, I always looked at it and said, you know,

marketing, I've come from a marketing background now. And, you know, the message which you can convey to someone lives with them. And for years and years and years, it was like, you you need x amount of protein you need to get it from these sources um you know you need to drink calcium and milk for your bones and when you actually delve into it it's like it's there's so much stuff is said because hey you know what who's saying it right why are they saying it and like they're saying it because you know they need to keep industries alive and is it really good for us okay it is good for us because that person's saying it's good for us but no is it really good for you and then you have to that's where the education side comes in and as i say uh the internet is a hard place to navigate to find the answers so you have to believe in what you can find support for everything there so it's not just

about educating yourself to be able to read a nutrition label you have to learn how to read beyond the label behind the label but then. And who has the time for that? No one. Yeah. But I mean, I would say that the most important thing is do and try it for yourself, see how you feel and adjust accordingly. And like based on your own experiences, you know, turn the computer off, flip the laptop screen down and just like, Hey, go in with an open, open mind and just say, let's go and see how this feels. And, you know, there's plenty of people who are living on a clean whole food diet, like a plant powered like this, which are doing incredible things. And, you know, you'd look

at them and say, God, I mean, I just look at, I look at, you know, some of the things which I've achieved and I think there's no way there's zero, zero way, but your body is such an amazing thing that you put the right fuel in, you put the clean fuel in. And, you know, it's always a joke that, uh, you know, I go to, I mean, we went, uh, yeah, we went out to some friends a couple of nights ago here, which we met and took them some, uh, bottle of wine over to, to, you know, be the perfect, perfect guest sort of thing. And I go into the supermarket and it's like, yeah, have your ID and that. And I'm thinking, I'm 35 years old.

Like, I mean, you know, you put good stuff in. You probably, you know, you're out in the fresh air a lot. Then, you know, these things all pay off. So I think, you know, it starts with everything starts with what you put in your mouth. And, you know, from your mental well-being to wellbeing and it's fueling correctly, but very importantly, finding what, uh, what fuel system works for you and, and, you know, what you really believe in and then, uh, try it and see. Couldn't, couldn't say it better myself. Are you, uh, how's it, how's it go over in the South of England? Well, it's a lot harder. I mean, we've been out here for the last week uh and you know we we

generally we cook at home we just cook at home because it's it's difficult we're definitely certainly if you're in london you can basically get anything it's not a problem but we're we're an hour hour and a half out of london and you know the local pubs and whatever bars they're not geared up for any of this you know you might find a vegetarian option but then it's got a bunch of cheese on and this and that and you just end up being the problem problem child and you know it's not it's not you don't want to inflict that that that onto anyone so culturally that's not going on so we we we really simply really cleanly and you know i start the day you know just like uh like anyone else you know the smoothies the blend it all up and you know bung everything in the

fridge in there get a load of green in there and uh yeah and just start the day good and you know just simple stuff fruits vegetables and cook some good stuff up quinoa and yeah a bit of rice occasionally but i that was again from my background quite interestingly you know i never ate like a load a load of the you know pastas and this and that i was always like because it was like hey let's do it with the fruit and veg the high water content the nutrient dense uh you know nuts and seeds uh came later when i learned a bit more about how healthy these these fats are and how essential they are but you know i was a kid and it's like you know and it was i'm just a pure product of experimentation of like you wanted that tour de france physique yeah i needed the yeah exactly i needed to the

emaciated look but uh it's all good no i would say you know just go and experience it and and see what works for you and i'm i'm pretty sure that you'll be amazed if you get the mind and the body right and the and the food right then it's incredible what you can achieve game is on the game is on i love how uh you're staying here uh in west lake and you're literally right next door to joy cafe it's amazing we just came a few meals there yeah and it was so good right we've been here for three years a couple of years with canondale uh launching the team here and then this year we just came back because we we really like the place and obviously joy's just opened and heard about on the podcast i thought hey'm going to have to go down there and check it out.

And they do. I mean, it's a whole new area. Hopefully, it's just going to spread and more people are going to get involved and join the whole message and enjoy the food. And yeah, it's incredible. No doubt. That's what's happening. All right, man. Well, we got to close it down.

Cool. That was awesome. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thanks for the time. Yeah, thank you. And you guys are off to new york shortly right yeah we're going to shoot off there a couple of days time so we've got canondale launch uh so stay tuned for that they got a new canondale garmin team which is going to be exciting to be uh unveiling a new bike uh not at the launch but a new new race bike, probably Callaway and Kit.

And yeah, those guys are going to be ripping out for the season. So I get to see loads of our hard work up on the big screen, which is going to be fulfilling. And it's all going to be good. That's cool. And what else do you have coming up? Do you have any public speaking engagements or new challenges that you're mulling about? Yeah, we're actually actually at the launch,

it's funny how the whole cycling world is so small. So Mavic, obviously one of the brands which we work with, they also sponsor the Cannondale team. So I'll meet up with those guys in New York and we'll all sit down and we'll start planning. We've got a few ideas. I mean, I would like to certainly progress everything which we've done, Coal Collective wise,

look at different regions. Maybe we can get out here and sort of tap into a little bit of the U S and I've got a little bit of an inkling and a little bit of an idea for something in the Rockies, like altitude and gravel. And that really starts getting really out in the unknown then. So maybe something out there and just keeping it real. All right. I love it, man. Well, uh, if you you're going to have to come back on and tell me all about it. For sure. A hundred percent.

I just say, you know, thanks so much for the opportunity. It's been fascinating to see your journey and learn a little bit about what you've done. And just it does feel very surreal actually being sat here now just knowing, you know, what you've been through and, you know, applaud you for, uh, for the courage it's taken to make the steps in your life to make a change and then ultimately, you know, make a very positive change to so, so many thousands of people around the world. I think it's, uh, you know, respect. Thanks, man. I appreciate that very much. I should have, uh, have you back for a private podcast chat on, uh, to tap into your marketing expertise. You tell me what I should be doing. No, I'm chat to tap into your marketing expertise. Let's do it.

You tell me what I should be doing. No, I'm always happy to help. It's like you help me a lot, so always happy, no problem whatsoever. Very cool, man. All right, great. Well, if you're digging on Mike, the best way to learn more about him is to go to his website, MikeCotty.com, C-O-T-T-Y. Yeah, and you're on Twitter at Cotty Dale. That's the one.

I mean, everything's pretty much into links. You're easy to find. You can find anything. If you like anything which we do, you'll find me somewhere, just Mike Cotty, Cotty Dale, or yeah, thecoalcollective.com. Right, and the Coal Collective, because I'll describe it when I do the introduction,

but we didn't get into the full detail of it. But Coal Collective, colcollective.com. Coal means climb. Yep, that's the one. And it's a series of videos where Mike literally walks you through what it's like to experience climbing these amazing mountains that you see when you watch the Tour de France across the Alps, the Pyrenees, and the Dolomites. And it's beautiful. And I love the latest one that you just put up where you have this experience with the sheep herder and you have this little moment with him. You really get a sense of what it's like to really be on these beautiful mountains. I mean, the landscapes are just extraordinary.

And so you have the kind of scenic aspect of it, but you also say, here's what you want to bear in mind if you're going to be riding up this mountain for the next you know 20 kilometers at an 8.9 percent grade or whatever yeah just look at keep your eyes open and uh that's as i said i think we said in touching it earlier it's like such an important part i didn't want to just produce content which was like just just the education side this is where it gets hard it was like and the the last video which we just put out it was a it was it was a rainy day it was one of the only rainy days we had and we were all like oh how are we going to make this look inspirational and suddenly we had this this moment we had uh with a with a shepherd on the passage which was just probably the best moment i actually summed it up as the best moment of last year um as i got to the end of 2014 i looked back

and said what was my highlight and it was like the humble moment of just five minutes with a shepherd and actually understanding what they go through and they are the king of the mountain we're just enjoying a little bit of their space and that guy was a real deal we saw shepherds from afar on our travels

and our filming and they're really they're like enigmas and we would spend hours driving from one mountain range to the next. Like, how does a shepherd's life actually work? I don't understand it. How do they, how do they feed themselves?

Hey, they got a load of sheep. Where are they sleeping? Where do they sleep? And it turned out, and our videographer's Italian. So he managed to strike a conversation up with this, this shepherd.

And, and they have a four by four. There's two of them. One walks, they walk from the dolomites to slovenia dolomites in the summer slovenia in the winter when it's when it's colder and they just walk across the fields and they keep moving the sheep all year long 365 days a year um and one's driving and then they rotate and then they'll drop into a village or a town and they're really

treated well so if they go to a bar they'll get you know they'll get some concession they'll get free food or whatever and but what struck me was it was really really like that was a moment where i could see in his face he was really glowing like i shook his hand i saw his the look in his eyes was like oh my god this is real this is a real mountain person and like we looked at the video and i just kept looking like he's really lit he's really proud he's happy I'm like, and I thought it's really sad because he's never going to see this video. He just, he doesn't know Facebook, Twitter. He's not out, you know, on his iPhone. He's not going to go, let's Instagram that moment.

It's callcollective.com. There it is. But it was just this. And we, we, we sort of got back afterwards and said, wow, that's just, hopefully people appreciate it because I back afterwards and said wow that's just hopefully people appreciate it because i they're the moments which i just want to bring to life for the mountains they're the proper special moments so hey if you like it check it out it's a beautiful thing all right man you want to take us out you know you know how to take us out here right yeah i know all right let's go for it peace plants all right we did it good guy I mean, Mike's just one of those guys. He's like one of those guys that just, he gets stuff done. He does what he says he's going to do.

He's not afraid to follow his passion. And I think we can all learn from that and find little nuggets to incorporate into our own life. So I hope you enjoyed it. I dug it. I thought it was cool. For all your Plant Power provisions, go to richroll.com. We got new t-shirts. I got the Plant Power license plate t-shirts there.

We got the tech tees for running. We got nutritional products. We got digital products. We got our meditation program, blah, blah, blah. Tons of great stuff. So check that out. Don't forget to subscribe to my newsletter for a free 7 Recipe download

and to stay clued in as to what's what. Hit us up with a review on iTunes. Send me your questions for future Q&A podcasts. Production and audio engineering and music and sound design for today's show was done by Tyler Pyatt. Thanks, Ty. Additional production and editorial support by Chris Swan. And graphic art, as always, by the very talented Sean Patterson.

Thank you, guys. And I will see you next week. Peace. Plants. I'm going to go run in the slush and the snow right now.