The Rich Roll Podcast - Unschooling Homeschool Method
Episode Date: September 24, 2013The lovely and powerful Julie Piatt– my sometime co-host and all-time wife — returns to the show today to share some interesting perspectives on children's education — more specifically, homes...chooling. And even more specifically, the Unschooling method of homeschooling. I know. It's controversial. I get it. But the subject also brings to mind one of my favorite quotes from one of the brightest minds of Victorian England – scientist, philosopher and theologian Herbert Spencer. It appears in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous, and goes like this: “There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance — that principle is contempt prior to investigation.” Translation – listen with an open mind. Because growth, change and expansion cannot occur without doing so. Other topics on today's episode agenda include: My recent speaking engagements in Toronto and Tucson ; My increased involvement in an exciting new documentary project entitled Game Changers about plant-based athletes, currently in production — produced by former podcast guest James Wilks ( Episode 16 ) and some of the people that brought you Forks Over Knives ; Witnessing Patrik Baboumian's world record-setting strongman lift & carry in Toronto; My impending visits to Karachi, Bahrain and Casablanca to spread the PlantPower message; Creating a PlantPower Halloween Movement; and Beyond Meat's quest to disrupt Big Food with its perfect plant-based chicken and beef alternatives. During our conversation, Julie references Sir Ken Robinson and his opinions about our education system. I can't urge you strongly enough to take a few minutes to watch his powerful TED Talk on how schools kill creativity. There is a reason it's the most watched TED Talk of all time (almost 18 million views), so please take the time to open your mind to this: And here's my view through my trusty GoPro of Vegan Strongman Patrik Baboumian carrying 1216 pounds for 10 meters, breaking a Guinness Book of World Record for most weight ever lifted by a human being – ever. Enjoy! Rich
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Welcome to episode 51 of the Rich Roll Podcast with Julie Pyatt.
The Rich Roll Podcast.
Hey everybody, it's Rich Roll here. Welcome back to the Rich Roll Podcast.
Today we have Julie Pyatt back in the studio.
Hi Rich.
Is this a studio? I guess the garage is the studio.
This is a studio. It's not the studio.
No, we're going to move into the real, real, the real, real soon.
Right? The real studio.
We actually have a real studio.
I know, it's all built up, but we have yet to record a podcast in there yet but we're in the garage today uh if you're new to the show
thanks for checking in uh what do we do here well uh i am an ultra endurance athlete i'm an author
a public speaker i'm a health advocate i'm a plant-based nutrition person, I guess. A lifestyle entrepreneur, health entrepreneur.
Is that accurate?
That's all accurate, yes.
And you're also the husband of Julie Pyatt.
I am.
You're my wife sitting over there for the new people.
Together we have four kids.
And we're coming to you from our garage in beautiful Malibu Canyon.
And this is episode 51 of the podcast.
I can't believe 51 episodes.
I mean, I guess, you know, most of the shows are about two hours, probably on average.
I mean, some have gone really long.
The one I did with, who was it that I did the really long?
I think Mac Danzig was the longest one.
We went almost three hours.
But on average, they are about two hours so so at 51 episodes that's over a hundred hours of like content that's crazy a lot of hours yeah it's amazing probably a lot of fat on that bone though
no there's a like valuable content but yeah it's amazing uh we started it in December when we were
uh habitating on the north shore of Kauai.
We were living in Europe at common ground.
And I was feeling the need to express myself beyond the perimeter of the very small island that we were living on.
You were starved for communication.
Yeah, for communication.
I think that it is funny because I had been wanting to do a podcast for so long.
And when my book came out, I did a bunch of other people's podcasts.
And I certainly listen to a lot, especially when I'm training. And
I always thought, that'd be cool. I want to, you know, I should do a podcast. I could do a podcast.
But I never did anything about it. And it's funny that it finally happened when we were in Hawaii.
And I never really thought about it, but I think it does have something to do with the fact that
I was feeling disconnected or a little bit. I mean, it was great. Not, it was all good,
but I think that maybe part of me was like wanting to, I don't know, be a little more connected than we were
on the island. It's pretty remote there. So we were feeling pretty, uh, like you're on a
deserted Island, like you're trapped there a little. I don't know. I definitely was happy
to come home. It was a great experience. i wouldn't trade it for anything no and what a blessing and so the podcast has done amazing and it's rocking and moving to the
next level and and uh we're moving into a real podcast studio next week i think tomorrow maybe
i know but don't worry we're gonna keep it authentic and grounded we're not gonna suddenly
move into a studio and then adopt like radio voice. You're not.
No.
You don't want to.
Should I do that?
No, please don't.
Yeah.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome back to the show.
And the thing is, is that.
Top of the hour.
This will always be sweet, this space, because, well, the warehouse on Hawaii, first of all.
But, you know, you've done almost all of those 50 episodes right here in our garage.
And so it will always be, it'll be here. You'll do occasional, uh, shows here.
You'll always be my garage guest girl. Thank you. So that's awesome. Yeah. So episode 51 crazy.
Um, and, uh, the idea here is, uh, to bring you the best and the brightest in health and fitness and wellness.
A lot of forward thinking paradigm busting minds. I've had doctors on nutritionists,
health professionals, world-class athletes, entrepreneurs, chefs, cooks, recipe makers,
nutritionists, musicians we've had. And and yeah it doesn't uh you know certainly i
have my my bent on what i think is uh the ultimate human diet but that doesn't mean that those are
the only kind of people that we have on the show we have lots of different uh lots of different
perspectives and the idea is that we can sit down and have a long adult conversation whether we
disagree or agree that's right and we're always looking for the place that we can sit down and have a long adult conversation, whether we disagree or agree.
That's right.
And we're always looking for the place where we can connect with someone.
Right.
Which brings me to an interesting thing that actually happened today.
I just flew back from Tucson, and I'll tell you a little bit more about that in a minute.
But on the flight back, I plopped down in my seat, and the guy sitting next to me is reading Rob Wolf's book, The Paleo Solution.
And I'm like, perfect.
First of all, I can't stand talking to people on airplanes.
Like that's like the last thing that I want to do.
I bought the Sunday New York Times.
That was my plan.
I was going to read the newspaper.
And he's sitting there and I go, I'm going to have to talk to this guy.
Right.
he's sitting there and I go, I'm going to have to talk to this guy. Right. Not because like,
I disagree with what he's doing. Just like, Oh, here's the universe is providing me an opening to communicate with somebody. Obviously this guy's interested in health or he wouldn't be
reading this book. Right. So I go, Oh, how are you liking Rob's book? And he's like, Oh, it's
really great. And it's, you know, it's changing my life. And I said, Oh, that's, that's great. I,
I know Rob a little bit.
I mean, I've never met him in person, but we've kind of gone back and forth on email and,
you know, and I respect what, what Rob is doing and our goals are the same. And, and, uh, so I
just took it as an opportunity to talk to this guy about health. And like, we ended up talking
the whole flight. He told me like his whole story of his extended family and how his son got him
interested in health and fitness. And his son,
who was living in Austin and working in a French restaurant, is super fanatical about nutrition and
health and reads tons of books and got him and his wife interested in this stuff and how his brother
is struggling with his weight and health and how they can't get him to change. I mean, he was just,
I mean, the guy didn't, I'm not going to say his name. You know, I'm not sure how he would feel
about me talking publicly about his family. But in the most general sense, like we ended
up having an amazing conversation, you know, and, and, uh, I think it's about bridging that gap.
You know, I could have said, Oh, why are you reading that book? Like you should be on the,
the plant-based, you know, routine and come at him from a very hard perspective.
You didn't convert him to plant power by the end of the flight?
Well, he was telling me how, well, he was telling me how his wife, um, you know, really is worried
about his protein and needs and make sure that he has eggs for breakfast at least a couple of days
a week because she's worried about protein. So then we had the whole protein conversation.
But if I'd come at him hardcore and said, why are you reading the paleo book? You know, you should
be, you know, doing it this way. And here's what I think, blah, blah, blah. The guy would have emotionally shut
down, you know? So not that I would, not that the purpose of the conversation was for me to
convert him. I just wanted to have a conversation with him. And by being a little bit, by like,
kind of sort of being more, um, open-minded to where other people are at or whatever.
It was an awesome conversation.
It was really cool.
That's great.
Anyway, yeah, it's, you know, I don't know.
I think it's trying to find common ground is important.
Absolutely.
That's it.
But, you know, on that note, our last most recent guest, Dr. Garth Davis,
that's turning out to be quite the popular episode.
It actually, um, there was an article about it on examiner.com, like basically saying, you know,
oh, he was on this podcast and here's what he said. And, you know, he's very outspoken about paleo and his opinions about paleo and low carb and all this sort of thing. And it was cool and
just interesting to see that the podcast would be covered, you know, in some sort of
online publication outside the four walls of my website. Yeah, it's fantastic. So that's great.
So yeah, so I was in Tucson. And I spoke yesterday, as part of the Healthy You Network,
which is a new nonprofit organization out there, I went and spoke out there in March.
And it was at a small little venue. And I think maybe 80 people came or something like that. And they asked me to come back and speak again. And I figured it would be about the same. And instead,
it was at the historic Fox Theater, which was packed. I mean, I think there were there were at
least 700 people there. Somebody said they thought there were 1000 people there. I don't know that
were that many.
But I think there were.
And it went from 80 to 1,000 in a few months?
Yeah.
Well, they had another event after me where they had Rip Esselstyn came out and Scott
Jurek came out and James Wilkes was there.
And they might have even had another one after that.
So they've been doing periodic events.
So they're building.
And they're building their momentum.
And it was great. It was really cool. How go it was good that's good yeah yeah did the
powerpoint up on the stage and all i don't know you know every time i do my thing you know everybody
afterwards is like oh that was great i signed books and talked to everybody and you know
hug people and stuff people are like that was inspiring or whatever. But all I can do
is like, Oh, I shouldn't have said that. And why did I say that? And I need to change this. And,
you know, I'm very self-critical that way. It's like a live performance. So every time,
every time the audience is different and the energy is different. So you have an opportunity
every time that you do it, even though it's basically the same speech in, you know, generally
it's the same program, but you know, it's going to be different every single time. So, you know,
you're, you're going to have to, you know, just enjoy it in the moment as you do. And, you know,
you spoke the night before in Malibu at a private home, which was an unusual circumstance.
I know that was more like a, uh, like some kind of Algonquin table, round table, like kind of
private home thing. It was cool. It was, uh, it was an event that our friends put on at their house
and there was, I don't know how many people came, 40 or 50 people. No, no, no. There was 80 people
there. Oh, 80 people were there. Yeah. It was fun. It was nice. Yeah. It was really, it was really
cool. And, um, and I was telling you after that, that for me, it's actually a lot easier to get up on a stage in front of 700 people where there's like bright lights in your face.
So you can't really see anybody.
Right.
And it's all just very anonymous.
And then I can like do my thing.
That doesn't cause me any consternation or stage fright whatsoever.
But like sitting in front of 80 people and a lot of the the people that I know personally that's more it is challenging for me it's like that for us when we're when we're
singing playing music yeah the same thing the smaller the crowd it's almost harder
um so right so I did Malibu and then I was in uh I wanted to talk about being in Toronto the
week before that so you've just been on a, on a, on a fast track here.
It's a lot of travel.
So I was in Toronto and I did, I spoke in Toronto at the Toronto VegFest, which is a
huge VegFest.
I think it's like the biggest one in the world, or at least North America, like thousands
of people come to this thing.
And it was, it was great.
Did my deal there.
It was fantastic.
But more importantly, um, I got to participate in this documentary project.
And if you've been listening to the podcast, then you probably heard James Lightning Wilkes, who came on the show.
He's the ultimate fighter, UFC MMA guy.
He won season six of the ultimate fighter or season nine.
I'm not sure which season it was.
But MMA guy turned plant power
warrior. And about a year ago, he said about, um, putting together this documentary project.
He really wanted to do a documentary about plant-based athletes and kind of take a hard look
at, um, our cultural mores and attitudes about meat and masculinity, what it means to be a man, you know, what is man,
you know, all these sorts of issues that come up and kind of pivot and revolve around the idea of
eating meat. And, uh, and I was one of the first people that he interviewed last year when he had
like no juice, like there was just his idea. He wanted to do this, but he didn't really,
he'd never made a movie before and he was just paying for it out of his own pocket and didn't know that much about the filmmaking process.
And I've sort of been helping him along the way because as an entertainment lawyer, I've worked with a lot of documentary filmmakers.
I've done production legal and a lot of stuff, and I kind of know my way around it.
And then more recently, he has a lot of momentum.
He has a lot of momentum.
His partner in the project, Joseph Pace, and him worked diligently over the last nine months and put together a proposal. And they've raised a significant portion of their budget to fully complete this movie.
And they have the interest of the Forks Over Knives people and have been working with the producer slash director who produced slash directed Forks Over Knives.
So there's a lot of kind of good people coming into the fold of this project.
And so when we were in Toronto, James and Joseph were there to do a lot of filming,
and there were a couple other plant-based athletes there.
So I got to meet and spend a little bit of time with this guy, Patrick Baboumian, who is a German strongman.
You know, he's one of those guys that does the, like, you know, I don't even, you know, you see they have these competitions on TV where they, like, lift a huge amount of weight and run with it and do this crazy kind of like.
I mean, talk about paleo.
It's like they're lifting logs and throwing them and
all this kind of stuff. And he's a, I'd never met him before I'd heard of him. Um, he, uh, is a,
I think he's of Armenian slash Iranian descent. Um, I think he might've been born in Iran,
uh, but lives in Germany. And, uh, he came out to be part of the documentary, but also to
attempt this Guinness Book of World Records,
which these guys wanted to film the attempt.
So in Toronto, right at the waterfront,
there's this huge outdoor stage.
It's like an outdoor amphitheater called the WestJet Stage.
And he was going to attempt something nobody had ever done,
which is to lift the most amount of weight
any human being has ever lifted and carry it 10 meters.
And when you want to set a Guinness Book of World Record, there's all these procedures that you have to follow.
It all has to be above board and documented.
And I guess if you want the Guinness Book of World Records people to actually come out and verify it in person.
You have to spend a tremendous amount of money.
It's something like there's a fee, like 7,000 euros,
in order for them to come out and see it.
And they weren't going to spend that kind of money.
So in lieu of that, they had to be extra careful about their documentation.
So they had all these guys build this special scale where they had
to weigh everything that he was going to lift. And they built this yoke and it was all measured and
they had a notary there and all these photographers and people like documenting everything. And I saw
the guy put 1,216 pounds on his back and carry it for 10 meters on this stage in front of like
a thousand people that were there watching. It was insane. And I had no idea what that would be like, you know, and I was standing on the stage kind of
helping them set up and stuff like that. And luckily I had my GoPro camera, so I just whipped
it out to film it. I wasn't planning on filming it, but it was, there was so much, so many people
were screaming and yelling and I was like, Oh my God, like this is insane. So I filmed it. I'll
put a link to the YouTube that I uploaded for it if you haven't seen it. But, you know, here you have this guy who looks like the real world Wolverine and who's a vegan. And like, he's really like hardcore about his ethical issues, too. Like, he's really in it for the animals. That's really important to him. And it just makes you really rethink everything you ever thought about nutrition and protein and all this kind of stuff.
Because if this guy, as a vegan, can put more weight on his back and carry it than any human being ever had, I mean, it's insane, right?
Yeah.
And how many people were there?
It looked like a rock concert.
Yeah.
I mean, there were a lot of people.
People were loud, too.
They were screaming.
I don't know if that comes across in the video, but people were screaming loud.
And when he did it, the cheering was off the hook.
That's crazy.
I mean, I think there were at least, I don't know.
I'm terrible with estimating numbers.
It looked like there was a lot of people.
A lot of people.
Thousands of people there.
I don't know if there were that many.
Maybe a thousand.
So that was really cool.
So we were filming. So they got that all on film for the documentary. And you're in the documentary.
And I'm in the, yeah, I'm one of the athletes that they're following. Um, and then there was
this guy, George Lorac, who's an NHL player, former NHL player, who's now a politician in Montreal.
Right. Um, and I got to meet and hang out with him, which was really cool. And, uh, and then
those guys went down the East Coast doing tons of interviews,
and they're still on the road right now from that
and meeting all kinds of crazy, amazing, interesting people.
And so I'm getting more involved in that documentary project,
and I think it's going to be powerful.
That's great.
I think there's a real need and an interest for kind of what these athletes are doing
and the fact that they're doing it in a different way than is conventional wisdom is, uh, is compelling, you know? Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, it'll be for the people listening out there at least another year before this is
out. I mean, we're just in the middle of making it and putting it together right now, but it's
exciting and it's exciting to be part of the project. Really exciting. That's great. And you're happy. You're happy on a film set.
I'm happy on a film set.
Well, you know, it's just a powerful medium for getting the message out.
You know, I mean, Forks Over Knives, I think, is still one of the most streamed documentaries on Netflix.
That's great.
Which is insane.
I mean, how long has that movie been out?
It's been two years now?
No, I think longer than that.
Maybe.
Maybe three.
Four years, maybe? I don't think longer than that. Maybe three. Four years maybe.
I don't think four.
I don't know.
So anyway, yeah, the working title for this documentary is The Game Changers.
That's cool.
Yeah.
All right.
It's going to be exciting.
So I'm going to have Patrick on the podcast.
I think I scheduled him.
It's going to be two weeks.
Right.
Something like that.
So coming up soon.
Coming up soon, yeah.
That's great.
Yeah. And anyway, you love soon, yeah. That's great.
And anyway, you love it up there.
Toronto's great.
They're passionate, plant-powered people there. Absolutely.
And yeah, we may be going back up there to speak, right?
Yeah, in April maybe, it looks like.
Yeah, we're trying to work that out.
That's great.
And then, so yeah, the travel, there's been a lot of travel,
but then I'm getting ready to go to.
Where are you going next?
Karachi.
I'm going to D.C.
No, D.C. first.
I'm going to D.C. next weekend.
So D.C. VegFest, I'm speaking, excuse me, Saturday afternoon, 9-28, September 28th.
I don't know what time exactly, but go to dcvegfest.com and you can find out more about
that. So I'm looking forward to going home and doing that. And then I come back here and then
literally a day later I leave and I'm going to Karachi, Pakistan. That's awesome. Is it? I don't
know. So I got asked to speak. It's a YPO event, Young Presidents Organization, which is a global affiliation of young CEOs,
and they host speakers for events.
And I got asked to come out and speak at a YPO event in Karachi,
and I can't say no to that.
I don't know if I'll ever get asked to go to Pakistan again.
It's definitely a lifetime opportunity.
Yeah, and so that's going to be compelling.
Also because I'm going to fly.
I'm literally only going to be there like 24 hours.
I'm going there.
I'm going to speak and then I come back.
Yes.
But I'll be gone like four days.
So, but it should be exciting.
And I'm really interested to see a part of the world that I know very little about.
And to speak to people in that part of the world
who are interested in plant-based nutrition
is pretty cool, right?
Yeah, it's powerful.
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What else is up, Rich Roll?
I had a really interesting launch last week with the guys from Beyond Meat.
Oh, yeah, that's right.
So Beyond Meat is a – I don't know what the proper terminology is,
but they've scientifically devised these plant protein foods that are meat substitutes.
I hate to call it fake meat because it's sort of,
it sounds derogatory because this stuff is so delicious and amazing, but they're figuring out
a way to make this plant-based food taste and feel exactly like chicken with the same amount
of protein, except without the saturated fat and the toxins and the animal proteins and all of that.
except without the saturated fat and the toxins and the animal proteins and all of that.
And I can tell you, like, this stuff, it's unbelievable.
I mean, I've tried a lot of fake meats, and they just, you know, you kind of tolerate them, right?
And most of them are like giant gluten bombs, and they're full of tons of GMO soy, and they're really just not very good for you.
You know what I mean?
Like, they're good.
Like, if somebody's interested in changing from the standard American diet to a plant-based diet, it's a good bridge because
if you're just not like, if you've been eating bacon for breakfast your whole life, you're just,
you're, it's too crazy to go cold Turkey. Like, okay, you get the Gardein bacon,
fake bacon strips or whatever. And it just helps. It helps. It helps with the transition,
but it's not a permanent solution. I don't think. But these guys are really creating food products and they're devising new,
new food products that are in development right now that are plant-based, but they're also
healthy. Really? That's exciting. And they taste so much like the real thing. Like meat. So,
so the audience isn't people like you and I.
The audience is for the hardcore meat eater who needs to get healthier.
Right.
And if you can give that person something that feels and tastes exactly like chicken that's nutritious for you, it becomes like a no-brainer thing.
Right.
And these guys are really kind of disrupting this market.
kind of disrupting this market.
And they're coming at it more from a technology company point of view as opposed to a big food company developing a fake meat product.
They're backed by the founders of Twitter, Biz Stone and Ev Williams.
And they have really smart venture capital money behind them.
And they're doing some amazing work.
So I went and they're like where they do their manufacturing
and their R&D is all at a facility in Missouri,
but their corporate headquarters is in Los Angeles.
So I went down there and met the CEO, Ethan Brown,
and the COO, Tony Brudholm, and their staff
and had lunch with them and met all the people.
And I was just inspired with what they're doing.
I mean, it's like, it's that kind of thing that that can really help really shift change a lot of people you know what
I mean and uh their heart's in the right place too and it's funny because Ethan he's a couple
years younger than me but we both grew up in the DC area and we knew a bunch of the same people
growing up we went to like rival high schools really, that was like a weird small world thing.
That's good. And then today, when I was flying back from Tucson, I picked up Wired magazine
at the newsstand to read on the airplane. And there is a whole article in there about Beyond
Meat, an article, the article is called Tastes Like Chicken. And it's a it's an article written
by Alton Brown, who's a best selling author, and the host and he's a it's an article written by alton brown who's a best-selling author and
the host and he's a host on the food network he's basically a celebrated chef and he kind of
the whole article is him evaluating this chicken product from beyond meat from the perspective of
like a chef a chef like somebody who's a foodie with like a very um mature palate you know and
he basically walks away from it saying,
I can't believe how good this is. It tastes just like chicken. It tastes just like chicken,
like I can't believe it. And it was, and it's cool that the article isn't in, you know, it's not in
Gourmet Magazine, it's in Wired Magazine, you know, this is about technology and this is about
disrupting marketplaces and forward thinking and all of that. So anyway, that was cool. Yeah.
Beyond meat. So I think they're in, um, in California, I know they're in whole foods and
I believe that they're expanding into, um, all the different grocery chains. So they're,
they're creating like these grocery store products for the consumer, but they're also looking at restaurant contracts, you know,
because if they can get, um, you know, let's say just for the sake of argument, McDonald's to
create a veggie burger with a patty that they're making and have that be available. That's like
a Trojan horse, you know what I mean? That's like, you have to change the system from within,
you know what I mean? Because McDonald's isn't going away, you know what I mean? That's like you have to change the system from within. You know what I mean? Because McDonald's isn't going away.
You know what I mean? And we can all point our finger at it and say it's terrible and bad and avoid it.
But the truth is a lot of people eat there on a regular basis.
It's gone away in my world.
Well, of course. And it has in mine and it has for a lot of people.
But, you know, there's a lot of people that are still...
But it's still in every country on the planet.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I don't know.
Anyway, more will be revealed about that.
But I was really impressed with what they're doing.
That's exciting.
So, yeah, so that was going on and that was cool.
I want to talk about what's going on here at home.
You do?
Yeah.
What is going on here?
I've been traveling.
You tell me what's happening here.
Well, let's see.
Lots, lots, lots of stuff is going on here.
I guess the one thing that I did want to mention,
kind of a family plant-inspired event that's going on,
is we're going to put on our first plant-powered Halloween event.
Right.
And this came out of actually an earlier podcast with
Juliana Hever. Um, we kind of mentioned it. I don't know if we mentioned it on the air. It
might've been off. I don't know, but we were talking, we were talking as mothers about how
to provide, you know, good high vibrational nutrition to our children, which is always a
challenge because, you know, most of us are in the school system or just even out in the community,
you know, the amount of processed sugar and GMO foods and just really just junk is it's horrible what's out there.
So then we come to the, you know, the holiday times and a lot of time, you know, in, in the
children's calendar, you know, lifetime, it's like, it's just one holiday after another holiday,
after another holiday, you know, sandwich between, you know, birthdays every weekend.
And when you really start to add up all those events it's just it's most of the eating time of the children so anyway juliana
hever and i were talking and i was telling her that i had this um inspirational idea about
actually starting like a plant-powered you know halloween you know uh um track you know like
like a map situation where you could have um organic gluten-free dairy-free you know, track, you know, like a map situation where you could have organic, gluten-free,
dairy-free, you know, processed sugar-free homes actually sign up on some database where you could
figure it out. And of course, that's like everything else that I envision. I'm always
like way too big. I'm like, let's just start with like what we're going to give the kid who
knocks on our door. And you're like, no, we need the iPhone app.
That's right.
I know.
But it would be cool just to entertain that idea.
Let's say you had an iPhone app, and you could pull it up, and it would be called the plant-powered app or whatever.
And then you could pull up.
People would volunteer their house, and you could look up in your neighborhood like here are all the places where
i can go on halloween where my kid can get something healthy and just get something good
to eat and enjoy the enjoy the date and the other thing is um that we're our golden retriever just
joined us here in the podcast studio you found the open open garage door. Come on in, Bodie.
No, but the other thing is,
you know, Halloween is a really fun holiday
and kids really love it.
I love it.
I love it.
I mean, we're not like crazy Halloween people, but...
Yeah, but I have the most awesome costumes.
You actually do.
You actually do.
The kids will always remember
your very, very original and surprising costumes.
Which one did I do?
Which ones?
I just remember, you know, you never tell us.
Well, I never tell the kids ahead of time what I'm going to be,
and they always bug me.
What are you going to be?
When are you going to be?
And I always say it's a secret.
And then I always join you wherever you are for, excuse me,
I have something in my throat.
Yeah, you just show up.
So we already go out.
We're already on sort of on our way.
And I just remember, I don't remember who you were, but you were some really dorky looking athlete or something.
You were in a neighborhood and I showed up on a skateboard with like knee socks and like OP corduroy shorts.
And like short shorts or something.
Yeah, and a handlebar mustache
and a visor and i was i was dirk your friendly neighborhood pot dealer and we didn't even know
it was you at the beginning like we just saw you sort of whip eye and then you know anyway it's
always very funny you're very original honey well my best i think my best costume ever though was
when i went as kurt rambis from the lakers Lakers. So if you don't know who that is,
maybe I'll put a photograph of him. You should post some of your side by side. I know that's so funny. But anyway, so back to, well, okay. So a couple, a couple of years ago, or maybe was it,
was it last year? Anyway, Mathis, um, our nine year old now, um, she announced to us that she
wanted to be a centaur, a male centaur for her Halloween costume,
which, of course, you can't just go buy that somewhere.
That really sort of required us.
Mr. Tumnus?
Mr. Tumnus.
What is that movie?
But he's not a, I don't think he's a centaur.
He's the other kind.
Oh, he's the other one?
He's the other one.
What are those ones called?
I forget.
I don't know.
But anyway, so Malthus wanted to be this,
and so Rich and I both had to support
her in creating, you know, this, a satyr that he's a satyr, Mr. Tom. What's the difference
between a satyr and a centaur? I don't know right now. Uh, one's a goat, I think. And one's a horse
on the back or something. I think, I don't know. I don't know. Anyway. So, so we had to create this
costume and it took, you know, Rich worked and it took you know rich worked on it some days
and i worked on it some days and we actually you know arrived at this at this costume that we made
with her and she just looked extraordinary it was genius beyond and maybe we can post that but
it was really the process of creating the costume with her and of course i was making her understand
like this is only one Halloween.
Like don't expect this every year.
Right.
It was a huge project.
We made an entire like rear section of her body out of paper mache.
And then with the limbs,
and then we put wheels on the feet of the rear legs and we created this
harness so that it would go,
it would be attached to her.
It would roll behind her.
She was really genius and she really
embodied it and it really affected her on a deep level. And I really feel like, you know, as a
mother and a parent who's advocating that we sort of bring the kids back home and we sort of start
to embrace some of these, you know, more simple and hometown, you know, experiences that used to be a normal part of childhood. And we've all
gotten very modernized and we're too busy. We don't have time. Well, it's just too easy to go
to the drugstore or whatever it is and buy this stupid costume that costs 10 bucks that you put
the hood on and you're done. That's right. And you can kind of slide it by the kids and the kids are
just happy and they don't, you know, they're like, okay and they sort of you know that's what they that's what they're used to so anyway so what i've
compromised um to because obviously i didn't have the wherewithal to get an entire infrastructure up
at an app designed in this short time um but we are going to have a plant-powered um halloween
event and um it's a no trash no dairy gluten-free, processed sugar-free event.
And we are encouraging parents. What's left? Lots. So tell people, I mean, a lot of people
might listen to that and go, well, you know, that doesn't sound so fun. Well, I mean, you can make,
it's not about not sweet. You can sweeten with, you know, natural substances, you know, like honey or maple syrup or agave or stevia
or fruit.
And really, it was sort of just, you know, do you remember the story when we were kids,
you know, we were enjoying Halloween and then you heard that story about that evil man who
put a razor blade inside of an apple, remember?
And it just, like, does anybody know exactly?
Is it the same guy that had something to do
with Richard Gere and a gerbil?
I don't know.
But I mean, was it in one city?
Was it in, does anybody know what city it was in?
And I mean.
It was this pre-internet age where these wives tales,
like these urban myths would crop up.
Like who knows whether that actually happened or not.
It's sort of like the guy from the Pop Rocks commercial
that, you remember that one? No guy from the Pop Rocks commercial that died.
You remember that one?
No.
You remember Pop Rocks?
Yes.
So there was the kid in the ad who did the Pop Rocks.
Or no, it was like Mikey from the Life commercial, Life Cereal.
Right, okay.
Remember him?
Mikey likes it.
So he OD'd on Pop Rocks and died.
That was the urban myth.
I don't think that's true, but like that was another one that like when I was in sixth grade or
whatever.
Right.
So,
I mean,
the thing is,
is,
is we heard the story once and then it was all of a sudden like,
okay,
don't,
you can't trust.
We skipped over the story though.
The story is that a man or somebody put a razor blade inside of an
apple.
And when somebody gave an apple out at Halloween,
the child bit into the apple and cut
their teeth, cut their face or their lips. Right. I remember that story. You remember that story?
I don't know if I remember that story, but I just remember saying or hearing, oh yeah, you know,
that that's bad. People do that. And suddenly it's not, it's not safe anymore. Halloween is
not safe anymore. So everything has to be packaged. So in my experience, um, most mothers who are conscious or parents who are conscious or, or concerned about,
you know, sugar intake, usually everybody goes and spends all the money with, with the big
chocolate companies with Nestle or Hershey's or whatever it is. And they buy all this stuff.
And then there's no alternative. Yeah. There's no alternative. There's no healthy alternative.
What are you going to do? Tell your kid that you're not you know and also even if there are
alternatives there's nothing that's individually packaged like that's for a pinata for instance
like if you want to do like a organic like holistic candy you can't because there's no
because you can get maybe some in a bag but they're they're not in plastic so they'll fall
out on the floor so So that doesn't work.
Probably like Justin's nut butter.
Those Justin's nut butter peanut butter cups are probably the closest thing.
Yeah, that's one option.
So anyway, usually what a lot of parents do is the kids go out and they trick-or-treat because they want to do that.
And, of course, that's fun and amazing. And they get all the candy and then the parents basically
cringe while the kids eat four or five, six, 10, 15 pieces of candy. And then the next morning,
um, they either just throw the candy out or hide the candy. And then there's some exchange like,
okay, I'll give you 20 bucks, but you know,
or the, the candy fairy came and left you a present and took the candy. Like this is a very
common practice. Yeah. So I'm sitting here thinking like, I never did that when I was a kid,
I would hide, I'd hoard my pillowcase full of candy and hide it in my closet. Yeah. Well,
of course, because no one had any awareness, but now these, these are what, this is what's
happening in our community. I'm not, I'm not making this up. This is, this is what the moms do like to make a compromise. So I'm just saying, I'm meeting these nutritionists, you know, you've had, you had Natasha Fett, Natasha on here. And then, um, Juliana Hever, we had, uh, Lisa on here.
So these are all nutritionists that are in the community.
And instead of complaining about it, why don't we start to shift it and start to create something that actually supports, you know, something that works for us.
So we're going to have an event.
It's a private event. Of course, it's not an open event.
But it's a private event.
We're inviting, you know, families that sort of share our like-minded desire.
And everybody's bringing
homemade handcrafted treats to offer it's a no trash event so we're using reusable bags
everybody's bringing their own water bottles their own plates we're going to have a green blend bar
courtesy of rich roll podcast and um and i'm encouraging people to contribute so not only is it a this is this
isn't like a party where we're throwing the party and we're inviting people we're hosting a community
event and so we're asking what are you bringing what are you bringing to make the plant power
event amazing so so far we've got some people bringing uh a pig um there's a donkey maybe you don't want
to say but uh really i can't say yeah i was like tell me that well it's like if you i don't even
know what's going on in my own house you've been very good i'll be in karachi no so the idea is
is um we're allowing the kids to create a haunted house inside the house. We're having two meeting times before the event
so that we can assist in creative creation of costumes.
So we'll have teams of people.
It's not like...
Right, so no store-bought costumes.
You've got to make your own costume.
Make your own costume.
Bring some vegan cupcakes or some plant-based homemade chocolate.
I just made some amazing energy bars for you for your training.
Those were made for your first pass at making like a,
a healthy energy plant-based energy bar. Those things were delicious.
Oh, I'm so glad. Fantastic. It was just in the moment. I know.
I can't believe that was like, it was really good. Good. Awesome. So, you know,
so you've got the energy balls.
We'll probably do some caramel apples.
Some friends of ours, Lisa and Greg, are bringing their bowling, bowling with pumpkins.
So they've got little pumpkins and like bowling pins.
So the idea is to come here, you know, we have enough land here and that families can put up a pop out pop-up table and sort of have their own
little station so we're still going to trick-or-treat we're just going to contain it here
and it's going to be plant-powered and high vibrational and really celebrating the creativity
and really the connection between the families and actually doing this event and I did have
pushback from even my own kids about you know know, no, but I want to trick or
treat. And does it have to be on Halloween? And, you know, I really thought about it. And
yeah, it has to be on Halloween. Because one of the things about these holidays is that,
in my experience, it's just, it starts to just be overload. Like you start celebrating the Halloween
at the beginning of october
and then there's you know four things at school and then two friends have something and then by
the time the holidays here it's like it's not even precious anymore like it's not like with
the birthdays you have the birthday at the school and then you have the and it's like how many
birthdays you're gonna have like when i was a, you got your one birthday. But it is weird how these,
no, I was not.
No, I'm kidding.
It's weird how we have like perverted
a lot of these,
like for example, Thanksgiving.
Like, you know, Thanksgiving is supposed to be
an expression of gratitude, right?
But what it is really is
just an excuse to be unbelievably gluttonous.
And then, and the whole point is to overeat and lay on the couch and groan
while you watch football.
Gratefully.
Yeah, well, I don't know if gratitude,
I mean, the gratitude thing is like an afterthought.
It's like, oh, let's just eat a ton and watch the Detroit Lions.
You know what I mean?
So where did that start to go left on us?
And Halloween is just, you know know it's insane the the candy that
the kids get and listen you know no i did it like i don't you know it's fun it's super fun but
i love the the fact that you're trying to think of a way to continue to celebrate it not in uh
that kind of like sort of way that is punishing the kids,
but is actually turning the volume up on the fun part.
Like let's make it more fun, but we're going to do it in a healthy way.
No, and part of this also was dictated by our schedule.
We're teaching our first co-workshop actually in Mexico
between the 12th and the 19th, I think.
Yeah, we're going?
Yeah, we're going to Rancho La Puerta.
That's right.
And that is, hold on, I'm pulling up the calendar.
I think it's the 12th to the 19th of October.
Yes, in Mexico.
That's like only a week after I get back from Karachi.
I know, I know.
Oh, my God.
It's going to be great.
And then you're going to play music in Austin.
Yes. Right after we get back from that. Yeah, so we. It's going to be great. And then you're going to play music in Austin. Yes.
Right after we get back from that.
Yeah.
So we've got a really busy October.
The Meow Con?
Meow Con.
What is that Meow Con?
It's a women's music conference celebrating women artists in music.
And I'm very honored to be invited to showcase there with the boys.
And also very excited because I want to show them Austin.
So we're going to have a little band road trip with me and Tyler and Trapper and check out Austin.
I'm not invited to that, am I?
Well, it just doesn't really work so well.
Come on, I'm the Ruben Kincaid manager.
I have to be free to be the artist that I am when I'm playing. When I'm playing my gigs, I have to be free to you know be the artist that i am right you know when i'm
going to go when i'm playing when i'm playing my gigs i just i have to be on my own that's so funny
i'm gonna remember that and use that on you next time i want to go away you're gone all the time
anyway yeah but it's always like i wish you could come instead of like no babe you know like i really
need to i need to be alone i need to be on my own. I got to ramble on, man. I'm a rambling man.
No, sweetie, I would love for you to come.
And it would be really cool if we could wrap in some plant-powered situation there.
So I'm open to it.
If something comes up and you can come, that's great.
And we'll have to get someone to hang with the girls.
I'm probably still going to be trying to deal with jet lag from Karachi like three weeks earlier.
I know, I know.
But anyway, so getting back to plant power, I mean, in the holidays, no.
So it's just for me, I would rather really plan the event and really work towards, you know, celebrating it that night and let it be one time, not let it be five times before the one
time. And then it's not new anymore. It's not fun. It's not unique. So, um, so anyway, I'm really
excited. I've mentioned it to a few of the people that I'm, I'm inviting. They're also very inspired.
And, uh, I really believe that as a community, we can put something on that will be so extraordinary
that, um, the kids won't want to go
trick or treat in a normal way anymore. So, uh, what, what day is Halloween?
It's on a Thursday, right? Yeah. 31st. So I think it would be cool if people that are listening out
there, um, do it in your own town. Yeah. Maybe they want to do it. No, it would be great. And
that's why I wanted to talk about it.
And even though I couldn't get the whole infrastructure up, if you are inspired by this and you're in a place,
we've got to remember we're broadcasting in countries all over the planet.
So maybe there's some countries that don't celebrate Halloween.
But if you're in a place where you celebrate Halloween
and you're inspired by this, I really, really encourage you to reach out to a few friends and see if you can create this a little bit different and take a lot of pictures and videos and let's share and let's start to connect a little bit over forming this.
Right.
We should create a hashtag for it and people can Instagram their plant-powered Halloween photos.
Okay, let's do it.
You know, there might be some people that might need a little guidance from you.
Yeah, absolutely. How do I do that?
If there's people out there that are interested in doing something similar, because this will be the first year that we're doing it too.
So it's not like we have all the answers.
We're doing this as an experiment to see if we can do something really fun that's a little bit different than what we're all used to it's so easy to go on autopilot
and like oh it's valentine's day so i get the flowers and i get the i get the chocolate and i
get the car i do the thing that i'm supposed to do that everybody else does and we're just like
sheep and you're great because you're always like wait a minute like we don't have to do it that way
nobody made a law like let's look at this like what do we do yeah like how can we make this
cooler than what it is and you're always like pushing the envelope and pushing and saying i
don't want to do that like let's move in this direction so but that's foreign for a lot of
people and it's uncomfortable and maybe even scary because it's like well my
kids won't like that or they don't want to so anyway i think that it would be good if people
are interested in hosting something like that or doing something like that at their home or in
their town or in their local park that night you could use a you know community park i suppose or
anything um just find julie on twitter yeah at j Jai Seed. At Jai Seed. Right. Yeah.
Or maybe you could write a blog post about how you are going to do it and then people
can put comments there and that could create a good little community forum for some discussion
about that.
That's a great idea.
Yeah.
I can commit to do that.
All right.
I'll put that on my list.
What are you going to write down right now?
9,000 things to do, but I will.
That's really cool. Well, it's kind of, you know, it's a little,
it's a lot selfish of me, and it's very personal to me.
You know, it's something that I care deeply about,
but it's kind of also my first sort of experiment
in my belief that the community can really bring it,
can really come together around the kids
and really do
something amazing and so this is something that i'm writing about in my book that i'm working on
right now and um it has to do with uh what i believe is a is a perfect solution to um the need
for a shift in education and community in our world um and that's based a lot in community
and in families coming together.
And instead of asking the question,
well, what are you going to give me?
You know, I paid this money.
I looked at who you are.
And, you know, what am I getting?
That you shift that whole way of perspective
and you instead ask, what can I give?
What could I bring to this? You know,
service, service. Yeah. And you know, we're all so talented and everybody's so amazing and every
single person that you meet has so much to offer. And so, um, I just know, like in my book, I talk
one of the models and one of the chapters is, you know, I just say for an experiment, you know,
I talk one of the models and one of the chapters is, you know, I just say for an experiment, you know, if you just took six or five of your children's friends, just five families that are friends of any of your kids or you, and you just listed the talents of both of those parents and the resources that that family have and what they could contribute to forming some kind of new shift, new paradigm education around a group of children, I guarantee you it would be so inspiring and so life-changing
for everyone.
I mean, assuming each kid has two parents, then to say you have 10 people, let's figure
out what everybody has that they can uniquely contribute to this equation. And then you have 10 people offering what they have to offer.
And collectively together, your argument is that that will be more than what we're getting.
They can get in the educational system.
Oh, it's without a doubt.
And it's actually 12 people because my golden number is six. So it's based around a hexagon structure for a reason,
for the energy that that brings to a project
and also that that keeps enough momentum going
so that if you have a family that's sick or you have someone who travels
or someone kind of has to go out for a little bit,
you still have enough momentum within the families that it keeps it all going. So I'm talking about starting a small community. I'm not talking about, you know,
the hippie ashram where, you know, you lived together. Yeah, are you talking about people
living together? No, no, no, no. Why don't you back it up and like kind of just in really general
terms explain what you're talking about. Yeah, I'm just talking, one of the chapters in my book is,
you know, I'm a homeschooling mom,
and I've been very passionate and very vocal about talking about how I feel like it's not
happening in the standardized educational system. And I'm a huge fan of Sir Ken Robinson,
as you can imagine. And if you haven't watched his TED Talks, please do watch his TED Talks.
imagine. And if you haven't watched his TED Talks, please do watch his TED Talks. I think his are the most downloaded TED Talks to date. And he talks about the need for creativity and creativity in
education, preserving creativity within our children, within ourselves, and how this is
actually going to be what is the catalyst that gives us, you know, information that will
lift us out of some very, very severe problems that we're all facing right now. And being a
homeschooling mom, and I'm really, I'm really an unschooling mom. And, you know, I've really
pushed the boundaries with you and our marriage and our family, because you come from a very
amazing, you know amazing Ivy League education.
But the girls that we had together, they didn't fit in the educational system. And so when they arrived, I had to throw out everything that I thought I knew as a mother,
and I had to begin again, and I had to start looking for other ways.
and I had to start looking for other ways.
And in my experience, leaving them to their own cadence and their own sort of rhythm in finding out who they are
and supporting them and really preserving their self-esteem
has been my really primary focus up until this point.
Right.
And so when you say just when you say like these girls just didn't work within the current
school system, I mean, what do you, I just feel I can round the corners out, but I wanted
you to articulate where you're coming from with that.
Well, I mean, it's a, it's a large, it's a, it's a very, very profound, large story.
And it's in my book and I don't want to go into the detail here.
But I mean, I would just say that, you know, when Mathis was born, you know, she just doesn't fit into anybody's mold.
It was like, you know, I had never seen anything like her or experienced anything like her.
So she's not somebody that's going to sit in a chair all day.
She stayed up to, you know, late, late, like midnight as a
toddler. The girl just won't go to bed. And that, I mean, that started from day one of her being
alive. And we tried everything to get her to go to sleep at a reasonable hour our entire life.
And I can't tell you how many times I had to get in the car at midnight after trying to get her to go to sleep
for four hours when she's two years old and her just not going to bed and having to get in the
car and drive, go to the freeway and drive on the freeway to get the vibration of the car to like,
get her to fall asleep and, and being, and literally sometimes I would drive for like an
hour and a half each way to get her
to go to bed and i was like no matter what we did we couldn't get her to go to sleep before 1 a.m
at one point you were starting the process of getting her to try to get ready for bed like
around five i tried well with like the bath and then you had like 20 things that you were trying
to do to like get her into a space where she would be able to go to bed by nine o'clock or something yeah she's very very very um very sensitive and she has a lot of energy and a lot of channels
going on simultaneously and so this made her extremely sensitive in crowds sensitive to
individuals even stopping by our house to like visit and even more just really, really problematic for her to be in a room of 30 kids,
you know, for at a certain time, sitting in a desk, doing a certain activity. And, um, you know,
she processes energy very differently than most people. And so for her, um, she needed to be in
around me a lot and also in, and also the diet really affected
her moods and how she was. And so at one point, you know, I was like, All right, well, you know,
I can handle this. And I, you know, got some, you know, essential oils for calming, and I got some
music and I got like a waterfall and I like re outfitted her room, I re outfitted different
rooms in the house a bunch of times, like probably eight different scenarios, you know, going, this is going to be
the time that she gets settled. And I think I finally, she was going to bed at like 1145 or
something like that. And so. And our whole family is being held hostage. Like, especially like I'm
trying to train for Ultraman and it's like, I need to go to bed at like nine. And I'm like,
I can't go to bed until like 1130 or midnight because we can's like I need to go to bed at like nine and I'm like I can't go to bed
until like 11 30 or midnight because we can't get Mathis to go to bed just leave our two-year-old
up I was like okay we're going like art yeah three four I mean it just kept going on but like
she was holding us hostage like I have to stay awake because our daughter won't go to bed like
it's supposed to be what I was like can't we just be those parents whose kids go to bed at eight and
then they go oh the kids are down.
Now we can watch a movie or something.
That never, ever happened.
Yeah.
And so what I found is if I started at 5 and if I did all these processes with her and, you know, after 14 books and just, you know, really like getting – I could get her to fall asleep at 10.45.
But I was like, it's exhausting.
Six hours every afternoon to get her to go to
sleep. Yeah. So essentially what we're talking about is trying to jam a square peg into a round
hole and extrapolating that out to the school system. We had had her in a variety of schools
and every time, you know, within a matter of days to weeks, and in some cases months,
it became clear that this was not like like and it wasn't working for her.
Not because the institution was bad or there was anything wrong with the teacher or the other kids or anything like that.
It was just this is not fitting for her.
This is not it's not in our best interest.
It's not in her best interest for us to keep her there.
And it wasn't like you're this person who wanted to be a homeschooler or an educator.
It was that it was sort of this exasperated moment of going, I think we're gonna have to
homeschool this child. Like, what else are we going to do? We've tried everything.
No, she required it of me. And, you know, I say in my book, and, you know, always Mathis has
required more of me than any single individual that I've ever met in my entire life.
And we have four kids.
If you're new to the show, it's like this is our nine-year-old.
She's our second youngest.
And the two older boys who are 18 and 16 now very, you know, function very well in the sort of paradigm school system.
And they're doing something different now.
They're doing a hybrid homeschool program.
But their earlier years years they were in
the traditional school system but i mean this wasn't until math is that it really pushed all
these buttons and made us look at this system look at what's broken about it what's working
what's not working in in uh you know in the context of this particular individual. Yeah, but the thing is, is I find increasingly almost everywhere I go,
I meet a mother or a family or a parent
who has one family member or one child
who is not plugging into the system
and they're completely strung out.
They don't know why, they don't know what to do,
they're trying this, they're trying that,
they're trying all these things.
So again, it's like- And people are know, a lot to, you know, mother and father,
both are parents working. And it's like, we don't have time to homeschool. Like, you know, yeah,
we're not like, I don't know if this is working, but what else, what are our options?
Yeah. And so anyway, so this is a, a, a model that I'm passionate about. I've been successful,
um, homeschooling with two other families.
I had three families for a one-year period, and it was the most support I've ever had in 18 years
of being a mother. It was extraordinary. So we had seven kids ages 4 to 13 and a rescue puppy.
And, you know, a lot of stuff's done online as well at home, but you, you know, you have this
community and the kids were very bonded and they'd have, you know, whole school sleepovers and all this kind of stuff. So anyway, I really
feel that we are the ones we've been waiting for. The answer lies within us, within our families,
within the parents. And I have great faith and trust in mothers and fathers and families to be
able to come up with a new system that sort of fits everybody.
And at one point, you know, I have a lot of friends who have autistic children,
or I would say diagnosed autistic children at different levels on the spectrum.
And I think probably many of you now know somebody who has some child who's been diagnosed with one of these ADHD or autistic, you know, uh, diagnoses. But,
um, uh, at the beginning, I have a great capacity to understand these energies and these children.
Um, and at the beginning I was thinking, well, maybe I'm going to do a, like a school for
autistic kids. Um, but when I looked at it more closely more closely, what we're looking for is a full spectrum
community experience. So we're, we're accepting and embracing the whole sort of the whole diversity
of that, all ages, all spectrums, all varieties to actually come together and share in creating something that works for everybody.
And when you say, when you say this system, like what is the protocol? You know what I mean? Like
you mentioned unschooling earlier. And you know, you said like with this system that we have set
up. So explain a little bit more about what that that, that we're, that we're aspiring to create or that we're in the process
of creating or the one that exists that we're not participating in.
Wherever you would like to begin.
Well, I mean, it's really, for me again, the only sort of goal or, or calling that I really have
at the core is to preserve the self-esteem of every individual.
So I am coming to the table saying that I don't know,
and I believe that some of these children
that are wired differently
are coming in with new information for us.
And if we're not careful, we're going to miss the gift.
We're going to miss that message
because we're going to try to shove them into a system
because we were told, it's just the norm.
That's what we were doing.
And I mean, Sir Ken Robinson talks about it
as the school system set up for the industrialized age.
And it's in a factory mentality.
And basically the system is producing educators.
But no one asked the children, do you want to be an educator?
And now we're going farther, like out of high school and into college.
And, you know, we don't even know if that's even a prudent choice.
Like, should a child be, should we be expecting a child to go into college to take on hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of debt when we don't have a job for them, you know, by the time they get out.
So what we're saying is, what I'm saying is, let's become more involved.
Let's bring our children close.
And of course, that's impossible if you're trying to work in this world that we live in and doing it all on your own.
But if you had five other families that were doing this together with you,
you would have that support.
So, you know, families of autistic kids, you know,
it's hard enough to get anybody to help you out to watch any child.
But think about a family with an autistic child.
You know, do you think they ever get help from anybody?
They say, hey, I'll take, you know, I'll take your son, I'll take your daughter. No, they won't do that. But in this community,
because it's natural and it's spontaneous, it's not, it's, it's no problem. It's all easy to,
to, to support. Well, not to mention the fact that with technology, the way that it is now,
the resources, the educational resources that are readily available to everybody is
extraordinary. I mean, you can like take Stanford University courses, you know, you can listen to
them, you can listen to Stanford lectures on your iPad or iPod, you know, through iTunes, through
iTunes U and with all the, you know, video content that's available.'s pretty remarkable and i think in terms of the paradigm
of of education and higher education being a product of the industrialized age you know our
economy is so different now and not to say that there isn't tremendous value in a liberal arts
education of which i am you know somebody i have that uh you know we somebody, I have that, uh, you know, we are becoming increasingly specialized and
technology focused in terms of how our economy functions. Right. So, you know, somebody who
really understands how to use final cut pro software, you know, is somebody who can make
a living, you know, if they're good at it. And, and somebody who has a degree in English
from a college might not be able to find a job, you know what I mean? And, and the debt thing is
really the big thing. It's like, you're, you know, you're going to go undertake four years of study
and, and put yourself in this unbelievable financial hole in a time of great economic
uncertainty. And a lot of people, myself
included, you go to college, you don't know what you want to be. So it's not like you go in very
directed, like this is what I'm going to be. I mean, some people have that and I'm jealous of
those people, but most people don't. And you kind of get the higher education and then you start to
figure out what you want. And yet you're faced with having to repay this enormous amount of debt, which forces
you to take a job you probably don't want and, and really kind of shackle yourself to some kind
of indentured servitude for the next 10 years where your freedom is being impaired because you
can't pursue what it is that you would actually really like to do. Right. And that negative energy
of that debt. Or just holding that. Yeah. Just having that, having that in your life, hang over you is, you know, is that really what, what,
you know, a young person should have to deal with? That's right. And I mean, I would also
ask the question, why do you... And I'm asking the question. I'm not saying I have the answer.
Right. I'm posing the question. Of course. Yeah.
Of course. Yeah.
The other question is that I have is why do you think it is that so many people don't know what they want to do by the time they get out of how many years of education? 12 years?
Yeah. Well, that's the ultimate question. Yeah. Because nobody, because they're never,
they're never, they're never put in a position where that's a priority to ask of themselves.
And school never asks you to ask yourself that question.
You go to school and they say, sit down and we're going to tell you what to do.
Open your book.
Here's what we're doing.
Not once do they say, hey, what do you think that you'd be interested in doing?
Oh, really that?
Well, let's figure out how we can support that. Let's create some curriculum
around what it is that you're naturally gravitating towards and support that. And that's what
homeschooling is about. And in particular, that's what the unschooling method of homeschooling is.
So for somebody who's not familiar with that, why don't you elaborate a little bit on the
unschooling method? You know, unschooling for me, I mean, in a, in just a phrase is just going with the flow. It's
living life instead of preparing to live life or talking about living life. It's living life. It's
actually being in the moment. And so you, with a shift in awareness, you can take every single
thing you're doing and use that as an opportunity to dig a little bit deeper or learn or, you know,
expand in different ways. So for me, I mean, you know, it's very, it's very natural. It's very Zen
and it's very, probably really frightening to, you know, someone who hasn't considered
that they possibly have a choice of not, of not subscribing to the standardized school protocol.
But I think one of the amazing things recently is that you came across that blog by Leo.
Right. Well, yeah, let me back up. I want to talk about that in a second.
But just to back up, like I'm a product of America's finest education, right?
product of America's finest education, right? I went to a private boys school in Washington,
D.C., where I had to wear a coat and tie from seventh grade to twelfth grade. Then I went to Stanford University, and then I went to Cornell Law School. So I am a product of that type of
schooling. And that has, you know, I have mixed feelings about it in one regard. Like, I'm very proud of that.
And I feel like I learned a tremendous amount.
Like, I certainly wouldn't have been able to write the book that I wrote without having the sort of education about how to write that I learned in college and law school.
So, you know, like, it was very, in certain respects, very valuable to me.
And it was also very unhealthy for me.
You know what I mean? And I think that's a function of not having a good relationship
with myself, never asking myself the question, what do I want out of life? Or what do I want to
be? And just kind of doing what I was supposed to do to, you know, get ahead in the world,
you know, go to the best school and all that kind of stuff.
But, you know, we gravitate towards what we know and that's what I know. And so anything outside of that is very scary for me. Right. So when you start, when you started talking to me,
are you scared right now? Well, no, but I'm, I'm, I want to share honestly about my process with
this because I think it's something that people who are interested in this might be able to identify with.
And it's this.
So when you first said, you know, I really want to consider homeschooling as an option, like my immediate reaction to that was like abject terror.
I'm like, absolutely not. Like, I'm not going to be the dad who screws up the kid because
I had, you know, a hair up my ass and wanted to do something different, you know, and I would flash
to the idea of the child in the therapist chair 20 years from now saying my dad ruined my life
because he pulled me out of school or whatever it is. And, uh, but slowly the idea started to
grow on me as we, you know know kept pulling mathis out of this
school and putting her into that school and you know mathis was is sort of this you know
unique child and she would dress up in a costume every morning she's sort of like this betsy johnson
crazy you know fashion designer outfit and and then she'd go to school and she'd get made fun of,
and she'd come home and every day her spirits would sink a little bit further. And it was like
that, that gumption and that kind of creativity and that like spirit, like a, like an untamed
wild horse that she is like, there's something really precious and beautiful about that,
that you want to foster in your child and you want to support and you, and you want to say, you go girl, like,
you know, you have a spine and you have a perspective and you have a spirit inside of you.
And I want to, I, my job as a parent is to fertilize that soil and let that flower blossom.
Right. And, and as we would see her come home from school and it was
like, you know, another dead leaf on the vine and it's, it was very painful. And that was a big
thing for me to see because that was my experience in junior high school and in high school. I did
not have a good experience socially and it made me withdraw socially. And I think maybe, you know,
like, I don't know why I became an alcoholic, but it wouldn't surprise me if that was a contributing factor of me feeling like out of place and
disconnected and all of that. And it was seeing that, that made me go, we have to do something
different to be of service to this child. And that opened up my eyes to the possibility of doing
something different. Now, it's still scary for me, like our, you know,
and especially the unschooling method, because it's, I function very well with structure. I want
to know what my schedule is. I want to know what I'm doing every hour of the day. And when I know
that it creates a sense of safety for me. And, you know, maybe that's my own insecurities or
whatever it is, but, but that's just how I'm wired. And you're not wired that way. You're like,
we're doing whatever, you know, I'm like, that doesn't I'm wired. And you're not wired that way. You're like, we're doing
whatever, you know, I'm like, that doesn't work for me. And so the unschooling method is kind of
more in your, it's natural. Yeah. It's very like, well, we're going to see what happens today. And
I'm like, well, what is that about? Like, how does that work? You know, like, I don't understand.
And, and, but, but really I think the fundamental principle that underlies it, that gives me a sense of peace and comfort and is actually exciting is this idea that we're letting the child see what they're interested in.
And so when the child says, you know what, like, I'm really into like King Tut or, you know, I want to learn about the Greek gods or whatever, when they are the ones making the decision.
And then you jump in as the
homeschooling parent and say, all right, let's get into action on that.
And you go to the library and you get all the books and you get documentaries and maybe
you even get fun stuff like comic books or you schedule a trip to a museum where they're
having an exhibit on that.
And you just take it to the nth degree, all the way to the wall in terms of what they're
able to handle at their age and aptitude level until you've explored it as fully as you possibly can, which is an absolute abject direct opposition to standard education, which is basically skim the surface, take a test, and move on because we've got to get on to the next thing.
Memorize.
And you never go deep into anything.
And then you don't remember any of it
because you didn't spend enough time really pondering any of it
or thinking about it.
You just read the book until you kind of understood it.
You memorized what you needed to memorize.
You took the test.
And then that's history, and you're on to the next thing.
And so this is let's ruminate in this for a while.
Now, you know, in a typical school system,
like one thing leads to the next.
Right.
And this is much more disjointed.
And I'm like, well, are we missing something?
You know what I mean?
Like, you know, for me, it's like, well, we still have to make,
you know, you don't just naturally learn how to read
and learn grammar and learn math. Like you have to be, you have to have instruction on
that and you have to, you know, apply, you have to, you have to do the problem sets and you have
to, you know, practice your grammar in order to be able to turn that into something that's rote.
Right. So I still want to, you know, it's like my thing is I want to make sure that we're doing all of that.
Right. But I love the idea of letting the child have more domain over the direction of their education.
And that not only fosters the self-confidence, but it creates a sense of personal direction that I think will lead to answering that question. Like, what do I want
my life to be about? Like, it'll give a child a strong sense of where they're headed in their life.
And that's something that I think is missing in the other system.
Right. And well, what I think is also inherent in this process is it teaches the children or
allows the children to be self-regulating,
self-responsible, and they become, they take ownership of that much quicker. And, um, I also
think it preserves self-esteem, you know, because it's just, it's all about supporting. And, um,
because I'm given an example of the self-regulating thing though, a little bit.
Can you, um, well, I you, you know what I mean?
Well, I mean, you know, it's funny.
You're sitting here talking about Greek mythologies.
Like, Mathis has been on this, like, already for, like, months and months.
Like, she just keeps going to deeper levels and deeper levels and deeper levels.
And sometimes I have, like, the inclination to go, no, like, you already studied that.
But she's not done with it.
And, you know, Greek mythology is, like, huge.
Like, you could go forever.
And then she was studying Joan of Arc maybe, I don't know, six months ago or something. And we were, um, also,
um, learning French. We got some audio French tapes and it started in on Kauai when we were
all driving around and everybody was kind of learning French together. And I lived in France
in college and speak French. And anyway, so it was really,
um, it was really fun. And then she wanted to learn about Joan of Arc, but she came,
she went to the library and she came to me with probably six texts that were all at different
levels. And one of them was like a, like a, you know, a scholarly, you know, piece of writing.
Yeah. And I, and again, I started to go into a pattern and go,
well, math, this isn't.
And she wanted all those books.
And you know what we did?
We took all those books and we read.
We didn't read them all cover to cover,
but we read as much as she wanted to within each one,
compared information between all of them, you know.
And then, you know, she was pretty complete with it for a little bit.
But, you know, I guess I just, I don't really worry about it because if she wants to pick it back up, she can and she can go deeper into that.
And then, you know, the spontaneity of life provides all kinds of other, you know, opportunities.
Right. So, you know, we found a barn owl, you know, who had died on the side of the road.
And, you know, we actually harvested it and took it back to the house and, you know, studied it.
So that was like very, you know, science oriented.
Right.
So anyway, there's just a lot of, there's a lot of opportunities in life every single day, everywhere you look.
And, you know, I think it's also important for the
listeners to understand that I also am a college graduate. So we only talk about your Ivy league
education as if my education, but you are very directed in this, like you don't question
anything that we're doing. And so I'm the one who like is the one going, wait a minute. I know,
but let's just, let's just say, so I have a degree in marketing, international marketing, with a minor in French.
And then I also have a degree in fashion design.
Yes, you texted me your magna cum laude diploma the other day, just in case I forgot.
No, but—
Your magna cum laude graduate of FIDM.
I don't even—
Don't make fun of it.
Look it, you're there on your high-end course. I know, even, don't make fun of it. Look it,
you're there
on your high
I know,
you're right.
Like suddenly you're better.
Right.
It's all ego driven.
I mean,
I was a professional.
I was working
in the garment business.
you had a fashion line.
No,
I took that program.
Okay.
I was so psyched
because I knew everything
I wanted out of
any one of those professors
and all the kids would leave
and I would stay after and I would ask them every single thing found out very shortly
they didn't know all that much I knew a lot more than they knew because I was a sales manager in
selling wholesale clothes and I literally came out of that I went I rented a studio for 300 bucks
and I cut and sewed my first fashion line 11 11 pieces went to I Magnin and sold my first order like in,
in a snap of a finger.
So I'm not like,
I'm not like this hippie chick that has never worked or that never had a
business.
I know that,
but tell people on the podcast,
people on the podcast.
Yeah.
No.
So no,
you had a big fashion line, right? Julie
Pye collections. You were in all the stores, right? You were in Bloomingdale's. Barney's,
Macy's, Fred Siegel, Nordstrom, Neiman Marcus, like every, every single store I had a, I was
in women's wear daily. I had fashion shows. I had a hundred piece collection. Um, and I,
you know, it was very, very involved. I mean, I was a, I was a fashion designer. I had a hundred piece collection. Um, and I, you know, it was very, very involved. I mean,
I was a, I was a fashion designer, was working 24 seven and gave birth to my two boys during this
whole period of my life. And, and, you know, it was crazy and great and I loved it and it was
creative and it almost killed me. It was like literally so much energy. So then I went from
that to, I built two homes. I built a very large home in Malibu before this much energy so then I went from that to I built two homes I built a very
large home in Malibu before this home and then I built this this home and when I say built it means
I managed the construction and I did every like design detail and for me it was a very calm
existence because I was used to having thousands of garments that were being sewn. And then like, if you get the left sleeve sewn to the right, like that's a big problem. Right. Or if you get fabric in and there's
a damage and you have a deadline and the stores don't extend, like you can literally go out of
business in one, you know, one snap of the finger. So it's a very, very high pressure business.
So for me, building homes was very mellow. It like oh it's just one truck it's one concrete
pour it's one house you know it was actually a little boring for me after I had been through that
um so anyway what I mean to say is it's not like you know I am a very active person I'm very
involved I'm very entrepreneurial and I expect a lot of myself and I um I wouldn't say I expect a lot of myself and I, um, I wouldn't say I expect a lot of my kids, but I, I celebrate a lot
in them. And so when my perspective is, you know, when you say you want to schedule because you want
to know what you're doing and I get that. And sometimes schedule is really important because
you have to show up to certain things on time or, know if you have a deadline you have a deadline but from a maybe more expanded place um which has been our
experience into plant power and into you becoming ultra man none of these things that you've achieved
in your life which give me so much joy to see you you yourself at this level. You didn't have any of this written
down on your schedule. Not a one thing. You never dreamed this. No, there's no, you know,
sitting here doing this right now would have meant something I could have never logically predicted
in a million years, you know, five years ago. And it wasn't because I followed up a program or a
plan. I mean, my performance at Ultraman was a result of adhering
to a schedule that was directing me towards a goal that I had. But I think in the bigger picture of,
you know, where's your life going? I think you have to be
malleable and flexible to the unpredictable magnificent because you know certainly my life is i mean i would have never
imagined that this is what our my life would be like no and yet i couldn't be happier it's amazing
but it was the result of being open and and sort of following your heart yeah like sort of
developing a greater relationship with myself and learning how to trust my instincts and, you know, follow those breadcrumbs when there was nothing to go on other than blind faith.
Taking risks.
That it would lead me somewhere, I don't know where, and taking a tremendous amount of risk, right?
But that only happens when you really do have a grounded sense of who you are and what's driving you, right?
And so the unschooling method is about developing that at a young age.
It is, but I would say, I would go one step, sort of one click beyond that,
and I would say that you didn't really have a full sense of who you were.
You had some inklings, and you had some pointers around that,
but it was when you committed to your heart
and you committed to pursue the breadcrumbs with abandon with courage and taking a lot of risks
that the universe then provided you with the authentic design of yourself. And it far surpassed anything you would have written for yourself.
So what I'm saying is unschooling is about not making the schedule so rigid that you miss
the miracle and the gift that is waiting there for you. I'm with you for that. So there you go.
It's amazing. Yeah. Just to, um, hearken back to what you said earlier,
uh, you had mentioned that I was getting comfort from a new website. So, and that's true. Um,
there's a guy called Leo, uh, Babauta. I don't know how you sell his, I don't know how you sell
his, uh, pronounce his last name. I think it's Babauta or Babauta. But he has a wildly popular blog on the
internet called Zen Habits. And maybe you're familiar with it, maybe you're not. But it's a
very high traffic blog, very popular, in which he dispenses incredible wisdom. And I've been a fan
of his site for some time. He's also a, uh,
he's a vegan and he's a runner and he has six kids and he's been homeschooling those children.
I can't remember how many,
not,
not all of them.
Four kids,
four kids.
But I thought not all,
it's kind of similar to us.
It's like two of them are older and gone.
I think in college or something like that.
I don't know.
It's a blended family.
Um,
yeah. So, and, and he's teaching these children.
They're homeschooling.
Him and his wife are homeschooling these kids on the unschooling method.
And I was aware of that, but then recently he launched a new blog called Unschoolery.
Unschoolery, E-R-Y.
Thanks, Leo.
Yeah, thank you very much.
And on this site, it's a very,
like Zen Habits, it's very minimal. There's no ads. It's all just, it's a white page with text.
That's it. There's nothing distracting on it. And he posts his insights and experience from unschooling his kids. And he encourages others to do the same. So it's really,
I mean, he's sort of setting the stage and leading the charge. He's like the team captain. But the
whole idea is that other people that are doing this or experimenting with this or who are
interested in this can also post. And a community kind of is starting to crop up around this and um and i have
like my the preferences set up for this site that every time he posts a new thing i get an email and
i can i can just read it wherever i am and and it's been very helpful to me to know that somebody
who i find to be a very evolved human being and who is very intelligent and insightful
to be committed to this and to be willing to share his experiences. And it's made me feel
a lot better about this choice. It's been a huge comfort to me. So thank you, Leo.
And almost, it seems like the questions that were coming up for you and we were sort of in
some critical points with the older boys deciding things. And it would seem like,
and not only that,
sometimes he posts like twice a day.
Yeah.
It's quite a bit of,
quite a bit of new content going up on this all the time.
So we would inevitably get something from him.
And you know,
it's like,
it's like the words are coming out of my mouth.
It's he's,
he's very,
I think you're happy because he's,
he's parroting like what you're thinking.
And you know that if I read it from him,
that I'm more likely to believe it than if you say it to me.
I'm like, look, look what Leo said, Rich.
So anyway, so this is not to say that we have it all figured out
and we have the ultimate answers.
We are figuring this out as we go.
Absolutely.
And we're making mistakes and we're succeeding
and we're doing all of this.
And it's a big mishmash kind of thing.
But it's a wonderful experience and I can say that I have seen the difference in our kids.
And I see a certain light in them that makes me feel like maybe I'm not a horrible dad.
You know what I mean? Maybe you're not. Maybe dad. Oh. Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Maybe you're not.
Maybe.
Just maybe.
Just maybe.
I'm not the worst dad.
Oh, you need to like reformat that.
I need to like erase all of that.
Well, no.
What I was going to say was,
well, I don't want to be self-congratulatory
and I don't want to say that our kids
are any better than any other kids.
I just wanted to say that it made me feel good.
Like I feel like I can see positive results of this happening, which,
which is putting my mind at ease that maybe I'm not, you know, committing some error. That's all.
Well, you know, it's all, it is still, it's so different from my experience that it's, it's,
listen, we're wired from the day we're born. Like, this is what you do. You go up and you go to preschool and you go to kindergarten, and then you go to this school,
and then you go to that school. And it's like, I didn't know anyone in my whole life that said,
yeah, you know what? I'm not going to do that. I'm going to go over here and do this. Like,
what? Like, I've never heard that in my life. So forgive me if I say, hey, wait a second,
let's really talk about it and think about this. this is like scary. This is like so uncharted. This is so off the reservation. And these are our children's lives
we're talking about. Is there anything more important? And I know your response is, no,
there is nothing more important. That's why I'm doing this. So. And, you know, I mean, right now, so just sort of update. So Mathis is extremely well and happy and doing amazingly brilliantly in her life.
And now she really is in need of some structure, you know.
And now, you know, she's, you know, has some teachers coming in to show her, you know, some technique and stuff like that.
But as an artist, I'm just really glad that I really feel strongly after just seeing my own experience with my girls is that the longer you can leave them kind of free when they're younger is really valuable. And that at maybe age nine, depending on the child, maybe 10, maybe eight,
maybe seven for some, then come in with, you know, tools to support and, you know, give them some
structure for their energy. But I am proud and happy for Mathis that she has so much courage
and a real sense of who she is. And I think that that will serve her beyond any course or any class that she ever takes.
And I think that it's important to kind of have a dialogue about this idea of letting kids be kids and giving them like a wider birth to, you know, have fun and play, you know.
And I think that, you know, now it's like kids, especially in like these private schools and things like that.
I mean, in Los Angeles, it's so competitive with the private schools.
I know it's like that in a lot of places.
It certainly was in Washington, D.C. where I grew up
and I'm sure it is all over the place.
But, you know, these kids that are in like first grade
and second grade and they're coming home
and then they're having like an hour or two of homework.
And, you know, when you're at that age
and you go to school from nine to three
or whatever it is, like that's enough. You know, that you're at that age and you go to school from nine to three or whatever it is, like, that's enough.
You know, that's enough classroom stuff.
Like, let the kid be a kid, you know.
Why are we trying to deprive them of that already at that age?
And I think that allowing them, you know, the kind of, you know, that doesn't mean, I'm not talking about playing video games.
I mean, you know, letting children engage their imagination, whether it's outdoors or painting or whatever it is.
Even if they're playing alone with their, you know, matchbox cars or something like that to just be, you know.
and let them have that experience of wonderment that we're all sort of robbed of too early as it is.
You know what I mean?
Like we could all use a little more childlike behavior in our lives. Like why are we trying to get rid of that so young?
Well, and also something that I write about in my book,
book and, and, uh, you know, we've, um, had the profound experience of, of having, uh, experienced,
you know, death and passing of loved ones and friends and families at different ages in our life. Um, you know, some very young, um, and some older, but very close relationships. And,
you know, um, we have this sort of future oriented view with our kids, like, you know, we're going
to make our kids do this, and then they're going to then they're going to finish school, and then
they're going to go to college. And then they're, you know, then in the future, they're going to be
able to live the life that they want to live. And that assumes that we know what the timeline
lifespan is of that individual. So, you know, you got to understand that your kids deserve to be living their life today,
not, you know, in some trajectory that's not even self-designed to be somebody
they don't even know if they want to be in the future.
And we have to ask ourselves if we found out, like if one of my children wanted
to do something, and I didn't allow them to do it, and I forced them to go a different path,
and let's just say that they didn't live to be old, or they, you know, didn't live past college,
I would not be okay with that. I want my children to be, I want everybody to be experiencing some
joy in their life and some
connection in their life today, like at whatever age they're at. It's not that a four-year-old is
less valid than a 30-year-old. And so this is, you know, something that was brought to my attention
actually from one of my sons, Trapper, our son. And, you know, he shared with me that he was kind of angry
that he was made to go to school in this certain way for all these years.
And when he really thought about it,
his personal opinion is that most of it was a waste of time.
It wasn't even focused in something that he wanted to be doing.
Right.
To be fair also, though, you know, or to play devil's advocate, I suppose,
To be fair also, though, or to play devil's advocate, I suppose, your job as a parent is to create structure and guidelines that are in your child's best interest
that are not about immediate gratification.
And I know that because I've experienced it many times in my life that when I want to achieve something,
because I've experienced it many times in my life, that when I want to achieve something,
that generally I have to work extremely hard to do so. And I have to be future oriented about that.
Like I have to say no to doing something fun right now because I have this other thing that I want to achieve in my life. And it's going to require me to be focused and not always get to do the
things that I want to do because I want to have this thing. And then that's an important lesson and it's a lesson that's served me.
And so I think as a parent, it's also important to instill that in a child as well.
The question is, is do you know if what your child wants to be doing, like has anybody have,
have you taken the time to find out and to really pay attention to what are those natural,
you know, abilities or talents or whatever?
Right. But I mean, what it what it requires is a divining rod between the important thing that your kid wants to do versus the superfluous thing that he wants to do.
Like, let's say he's like, I don't want to, you know, I don't want to, you know, go.
I don't want to follow through on that commitment I had because I want to go to this party tonight. That's different from, you know what, like I spent
all this time in school when all I really wanted to do was, you know, be a graphic designer. And
I don't know how like my junior high school was supportive of it. You know what I mean? Like those
are two different things. Completely different things. I mean, I'm obviously speaking about,
you know, following an education track that is
leading nowhere.
That's what I'm talking, speaking to you.
I understand.
Or leading somewhere we don't know.
And, you know, has been said that we don't even know what's happening in the whole landscape
in two months, much less five years.
Right.
But you can't use that as an excuse to like not, you know, still live your life responsibly who said what i mean like i'm
just gonna watch oprah because i don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow no no no no but you're but
you're taking you're assuming that someone who says they don't want to study math is going to
watch oprah you're you're not you're not i'm just using an extreme example to illustrate a point
i get the point but the point could be that instead of,
instead of maybe going into chemistry, the individual could be studying science or could
be going into something that they enjoy. Well, another, another arm. It's not literally in every
aspect. So I'm just saying that, you know, children are people today, not when they're 18, not when they're 30.
They're valid right now.
I'm with you on that.
I'm not disagreeing with you on that.
I think you have to balance the listening to the kid also with another sort of function of the parent is to make sure that you're exposing your kid to lots of different things so that they can so that how do they know if they're going to like something or not unless
they've been introduced to it right so you kind of have to do that too yeah absolutely so you're
looking at me like i'm disagreeing with you but i'm actually not it's for me like it's it's a it's
a good way to illustrate a point by taking a counterpoint and then it makes us like really crystallize what we're talking about.
Right.
So I get it.
No,
I mean,
you know,
listen,
it obviously,
you know,
everything that you've accomplished in your life,
it,
it requires action and structure and applying,
you know,
uh,
energy and doing things you don't want to do.
I mean,
when I was a garment manufacturer,
I worked seven days a week,
14 hours a day.
It wasn't like I wanted to do that. Cause you wanted to succeed. I had to. Well, I had to when I was a garment manufacturer, I worked seven days a week, 14 hours a day. It wasn't like I wanted to do that. I had to, I was committed. So, you know,
it's not, it's not about being, but we have to be careful that when you're talking about, um,
opting out of what is been, um, uh, given to you of, of your one option, you know, that that doesn't
mean that you suddenly become a lazy hippie. So that's not, that's one option, you know, that that doesn't mean that you suddenly become
a lazy hippie. So that's not, that's not the other. Well, that's what, that's the point I'm
trying to make. Like, that's the point I want to make sure that is coming across, that it's not
like, Hey man, you know, like I'm not doing your trip. I'm going to go over here and like lay in
my yurt and like do bong hits all day. But we lived in yurts. I know, which is why I'm saying like
the person who's listening to this is going to go,
yeah, well, that's, yeah,
they're just like yurt dwelling, you know,
Topanga hippies or something like that.
So I'm trying to...
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
No, there's, you know,
it's probably a pretty good lifestyle actually,
but that's not what we're doing.
No, no, I'm just i really really advocate
again and i'm just i believe uh in divine creation and the original blueprint of each individual
and so i subscribe to that there is some genius that that lives in every single one of us and
um i would just like to support that
and just say that I support you and I see you
and I'll hold space for you.
What you're saying is your job as a mother
or as an educator of your children
is to foster the development of that
to help bring that out and to support that.
And like I said earlier, fertilize that
so that it can blossom and grow and be fully expressed
and really in in and as a community and and in my community I see that as well and I saw that in you
and that's what we've experienced in our relationship and one of my greatest joys of
this whole process is that you are so not the guy that was supposed to do this. There's nobody that knew you in your school, you know,
as you with the Coke bottle glasses.
And, you know, you were the ultimate underdog in a lot of ways socially
and not in your swimming prowess, not in, you know, not in your grades,
but in your social connection and spiritual connection. And to see you experience this in your life, it just is awesome.
It's really, really inspiring and uplifting, and it gives me great pleasure.
Well, thank you for helping me figure it out.
Absolutely.
Cool.
I'm here.
I think that's a good place to wrap it up for today.
Okay.
What do you think? I think it's great. Feel good? it up for today okay what do you think i think it's
great feel good i feel great thanks so much thanks for having me on your show yeah sure
why don't you uh take us out with a little bit about our mind body green
plant-based nutrition course for people who might be new to the podcast okay great so
rich and i had the amazing opportunity of partnering with mind body green this amazing
online magazine to present a plant-powered video online course which is over three and a half hours
of information support cooking videos recipes nutrition information, training information, lifestyle information on how to bring more
plants into your lifestyle.
So if you're anywhere on the spectrum, if you're plant-based, if you are vegetarian,
if you're a meat eater, if you're trying to get healthier, thinking about starting to
embrace some of this lifestyle, we've created this online program for you.
And we're very proud of it.
It was a lot of work.
We did, it was three 12-hour days of shooting and something that we created together.
Right, so it's streaming online video content.
It's three and a half hours of video content broken up into five to ten minute chunks.
And each little piece is specific to a certain subject or theme relating to
plant-based nutrition.
Right.
That's right.
And you can download it there.
It's a $99,
I believe.
And you can get it at mindbodygreen.com.
And it's awesome.
And there's an online community too.
You could ask questions.
We chime in,
which reminds me,
I need to go in there and answer a bunch of questions. But it's great. We chime in, which reminds me, I need to go in there and
answer a bunch of questions. Uh, but it's great. We're really proud of it. Um, production quality
is really high. The information is great and we're getting great feedback. So, uh, if you go
to mindbodygreen.com right on the homepage, scroll down, you'll see a little, um, you'll see a banner
for it. You can click that and learn more. And I think you can watch a couple like preview clips to check out to see if it suits you or not. But anyway, do that. And I also
wanted to mention that just in the past week, two former podcast guests have launched their own
podcast. So exciting. So Sid Garza Hillman, the author of approaching the natural, who was a guest on
the show a couple of months ago, several months ago, I guess at this point, um, really cool guy
who wrote a really, really cool little manifesto book approaching the natural. Um, you can check
out, I don't know what episode number it was, but he was on quite a while ago. But if you just search
on my website for the hat, yeah, he's got, he wears a cowboy hat. It's a large hat.
So anyway, he just launched his podcast called Approaching the Natural,
and you can find that on iTunes.
And then Usher Gunsberg, who's been on the podcast,
he interviewed me when the paperback came out.
A finding ultra. Yeah, and he's a plant-based runner
and Australian television host and personality.
He most recently can be seen hosting The Bachelor in Australia.
He's the host of The Bachelor in Australia.
So anyway, his podcast just went live, I think, today or maybe yesterday.
It's the Osher Gunsberg podcast.
With two dots over the U.
Yeah, two dots over the u like motley crew
right and uh he uh you could check out uh uh his interview of me on this podcast show and hopefully
he's gonna ask me to be on his show so that's cool so i'm glad that people who have come on
this podcast have then thought i'm gonna do my, right? This is like triple down effect. So that's cool. And that's it. We have a few products on our website, richroll.com. We have
a plant-based nutrition cookbook called Jai Seeds, 77 pages of awesome recipes, good stuff. Jai
Release, Julie's meditation program, which is a series of MP3s. It's a humming meditation,
which is great for beginners interested in meditation
or even if you're a seasoned, practiced meditator,
it's a different technique that might shift your awareness.
It's been helpful to me.
And we have Jai Repair,
my all-in-one plant-based athletic recovery supplement.
And we have Jai B12, B12 supplement.
And we're a lot of questions about the t-shirts.
That's right.
T-shirts coming.
Plant Power t-shirts.
They are coming soon.
The only delay has been in configuring the website shopping cart.
And we had to get a new bank account open.
All this kind of like bureaucratic nonsense or whatever that's made it take longer than it should have but my hope is that within
the next two weeks we're going to have that up and running and functional we have a couple cool
t-shirt designs that we're going to offer and then we're going to start rolling out a lot more
products and we're really going to expand what we're offering and that's right too so and i think
it'd be great um would it be okay if you took us out with The New Earth,
a track from my upcoming album? The New Earth? Are you going to just sing it?
No, I'm not. You're going to grab the guitar back there and strum it.
No, I'm not going to. No, because this song has a lot of harmonies on it. And specifically,
I actually wanted to request that we include it in this show because it's actually funny because um it's
one of one of the early songs that i channeled as a result of jai release meditation just sort
of came to me and i said to rich oh no i think i'm a folk singer and it was one of those moments
yeah you are now you're gonna go sing folk at the meow conference but um anyway accept it it's just
it's yeah that i had to be just totally unattached to it because it just came out that way.
But this particular song called The New Earth is a great sort of campfire sing-along type of song.
And it really reminds me of families and community and bringing the families together. And also, I had the beautiful pleasure of not only was it produced,
arranged, and all the instrumentation played by my beautiful sons, Tyler and Trapper,
but my brother Stuart recorded my father, who will be 90 on the 3rd of October this year.
will be 90 on the 3rd of October this year. And he graces me with, um, a little harmonica accompaniment in the bridge. And I wanted to release that and at least play it for you before
he turns 90 on the 3rd. So, um, anyway, it's called the new earth and, uh, you'll be the first
to hear it. Um, it will be on an upcoming album released in,
I don't know,
a couple of months,
maybe right on, right on.
Thanks.
So that's it.
I'll take us out.
Okay.
Ready.
Thank you.
Thanks,
Julie.
Peace.
Peace.
Namaste.
Meow.
Peace. place to be let it happen in you feel the cool breeze kiss the sun embrace know that you exist
in everyone
every laugh
every scream
every cry
every joy
and beyond it all
pure bliss
pure bliss, pure bliss
Are you ready for the new birth?
Stand up, get ready to shine
The being is the place to be.
Let it happen in you.
Breathe it all in.
Just let go.
It all happens in the now, it's happening now, it's happening now. Thank you. Are you ready for the new birth?
Stand up, get ready to shine.
Being is the place to be.
Let it happen in you.
Breathe it all in.
Just let go.
It all happens in the now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now.
It's happening now.
Are you ready for the new earth?
Stand up, get ready to shine get ready to shine
get ready to shine
get ready to shine Thank you. you you you you you you you you you you