The Rich Roll Podcast - Vegan NFL Player Griff Whalen: The Plantpower Underdog On The Advantage of Self-Belief

Episode Date: July 18, 2016

What do you get when you combine Underdog with the spinach-chomping Popeye The Sailor Man? Griff Whalen. Currently serving up wide receiver and punt return duties for the Miami Dolphins, today’s guest is the only (to my knowledge) 100% plant-based athlete currently active in the National Football League. But Griff's unique nutritional protocol is only a part of a larger, more compelling narrative. An inspirational tale of determination, tenacity and self-belief. The story begins with a scrappy kid from Ohio with an insane dream — to one day play professional football. But at 5’11” and 190 pounds, Griff doesn’t strike the typical NFL pose. He's quiet, studious and understated in a culture of brash egos. Undersized on a field of gargantuan colossuses. Merely fast on a field of lightning-footed Greek gods. Griff, be serious. It's just not going to happen. Although a standout high school player, the phone wasn't exactly ringing off the hook with scholarship offers to the big NCAA Division I programs. Undeterred, Griff enrolls at Stanford and joins the squad as a non-scholarship walk-on. Expectations were low. Nonetheless, Griff persists. Flouting his God-given limitations, he out-trains his teammates and competitors. He studies the game like his life depends upon it. And, most interestingly, he plies his erudite, scholarly nature to the white space — overlooked aspects of mental, emotional and physical self-development to gain that extra edge to enhance his performance both on and off the field. It works. Defying the odds (a consistent theme with Griff), he makes the Stanford roster as one of only 8 true freshman to see action in 2008. Improving year by year, Griff closed out a very successful collegiate career as a starting wide receiver alongside storied quarterback Andrew Luck — his roommate and best friend to this day. The 2012 NFL Draft comes and goes. Griff's phone doesn't ring. But because luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity, he nonetheless gets picked up as an undrafted free agent by the Indianapolis Colts. The dream becomes reality. But before he can even celebrate his most implausible life-long goal finally realized — just four months after being signed, Griff breaks his foot and gets placed on injured reserve. A crushing setback that would end the career of most, Griff doubles down, using the off-time to his advantage. Understanding that his career depended upon him identifying every conceivable means to overcome his injury and talent deficit, he turns his attention to nutrition and begins to keenly study optimal methods to enhance his body's ability to recover from exercise-induced stress. It's an inquest that ultimately lead him to adopt a plant-based diet — a radical vegan experiment he now credits as central to bouncing back in 2013 — shredded, stronger and faster — to make the Colts' starting lineup alongside long-time pal Andrew Luck, the NFL's $140 million man. Currently in his 4th year with the NFL, today Griff finds himself heading into the 2016-17 season in a brand new city playing with a brand new team – the Miami Dolphins. Exploring the hows and whys of Griff’s plant-based protocol, a big part of today's discussion centers on dispelling nutritional myths related to athletic performance. But at its core, this is a conversation about conviction and resilience. It's about the importance of coaches and mentors. It's about managing time and setting goals. It's about refusing to give up. It's about going the extra mile to find that that performance edge.

Hey guys, so I've decided to try something different. A new weekly email newsletter I'm calling Roll Call. Is that cheesy? I guess it's kind of a cheesy name, but whatever. In any event, it's a short, totally free weekly blast of instructive recommendations and resources. Just things I've discovered, enjoyed, and found helpful to grace your inbox every Thursday. That's it. No spam ever. I'm just grateful for your support. And this is a simple way for me to give back and be of greater service to you. So if this sounds like something you'd be into, you can sign up for the newsletter at richroll.com. Now onto the show. I get plenty of protein just from the plants I'm eating and I think it's a huge misconception

about how much protein we actually need you know I know before I started looking into all this I would have guessed that maybe for what I was trying to do as an athlete that maybe 50 percent of my calories should be protein you think lean protein like that's what I need so that's the first thing is like you don't need as much protein as you might think. That's Miami Dolphins wide receiver, Griff Whalen. And this is the Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey guys, what's happening? What's going on? My name is Rich Roll Podcast. filmmakers, musicians, entrepreneurs, authors, activists, world-class athletes, in the case of today's guest, and even the occasional everyman, simply people with experience and expertise

across all categories of positive living, social change, and performance. And my hope is that these conversations will find a way to serve you in your journey to unlock and unleash your best, most authentic self. So today's guest is very interesting. He is the only, at least to my knowledge, 100% plant-based athlete in the National Football League. He's Miami Dolphins wide receiver Griff Whalen. He's at Griff Whalen on Twitter. Give him a shout.

Griff's a really smart and thoughtful guy. He's got a very compelling story, both because of as well as even beyond his iconoclastic, at least for the NFL, vegan diet. And we're going to unpack all of it, but first. All right. How are you guys doing? You guys doing okay? Are you still with me? Good, because lots to love, lots to appreciate about today's podcast episode, today's conversation, and today's guest, Griff Whalen. Beyond the fact that Griff is the only, again, at least to the best of my knowledge, 100%

plant-based athlete who is currently active in the NFL, which of course is incredibly inspiring and super interesting in its own right. This is really an underdog story. It's the story of an undersized, undrafted player who has faced more than his fair share of obstacles and setbacks, and yet continues to persevere, to bridge his size and God-given talent limitations by basically outworking everyone on the field, by studying the game harder than anybody else, but above all, by believing in himself. At first glance, this 5'11", 190-pound wide receiver doesn't exactly strike the typical NFL pose. He's thoughtful, he's considerate, he's a little bit quiet, and although quite swift, he lacks that world-class speed, and he's not exactly gargantuan.

Although he was certainly a solid high school player, even he wasn't sure he was going to be able to take his skills to the next level. Griff was a walk-on athlete at Stanford, and yet nonetheless ended up making the roster his freshman year and soon worked his way up to a starting position. But still, it's not like the NFL was calling. That was still a pipe dream. And sure enough, Griff was not drafted, yet somehow he eked into the pro ranks when he was picked up as a free agent by the Indianapolis Colts in 2012. And despite all kinds of setbacks, including a broken foot in 2012 that benched him, he makes the Colts starting lineup in 2013 and ends up playing alongside his best friend

and his college roommate, Andrew Luck, who you might have heard of. He's the NFL's most highly compensated player due to this newly minted six-year $140 million mega deal that he recently signed. Griff is currently in his fourth year with the NFL, and today he finds himself heading into the 2016-2017 season in a brand new city, playing with a brand new team, the Miami Dolphins. So again, in many ways, this really is an underdog story. Of course, a big part of this discussion is about the hows and the whys of Griff's plant based protocol, dispelling nutritional myths related to athletic performance. But it's also

about the power of belief. It's about perseverance, the refusal to quit, the refusal to give up. It's about going the extra mile to find that performance edge. And above all, performance edge and above all it's about believing in yourself so without further ado let's uh toss the ball with riff all right man let's do it all right thanks for coming up here dude it's uh it's super nice to finally meet you i feel like i know you already though. Like I feel connected to you through social media and we've obviously been chatting for a while, but our first time in-person meeting, it's cool. Yeah, Sam, I feel like I interacted with you a bunch, even though first time meeting you. What are you doing here in the LA area? I've been training all week down in Car carlsbad so my agent lives in dana point

i've been hanging out with him a little bit and getting some training in for the off season who's uh who's your agent ryan downey is he who was the big super agent wasn't he from dana point the original like badass dude oh i don't know spacing right now i don't know but like the guy who kind of pioneered being a sports agent back in the day i'll think of it later of course okay but uh no he yeah he was from dana point anyway um yeah he he's born and raised in dana point and beautiful area fun place to go train so you don't you don't have to be in miami right. No, we just finished up. We have two months basically of off-season workouts, OTAs and mini camp. So we just finished that up and now we have a few more weeks before training camp starts.

So you just let you come out here, get some good weather, bang out some good training. Yeah. You have friends out here? Got a bunch of friends out here. I'm actually leaving tomorrow, going up to the Bay Area for a friend's wedding. And then, you know, I've got a bunch of college friends up there that I'll get to see. Cool. And how are you settling in in Miami? How do you like it? Pretty good. I've been having a really good time, actually. It's a little different than Indianapolis.

It is a little different. It's a little different than Indianapolis. It is a little different. Yeah, that's cool. I like it. I really like it there. And I like it more now than I did like 10 years ago. There's so many cool, interesting things happening there, like the whole Wynwood Arts District.

Yeah, I was just there a couple days ago. It's pretty cool, man. Yeah. Andrew Luck is one of my best friends. He was down there for a few days, and we ended up going down to Wynwood and grabbed some dinner and the u.s columbia game was on and we found some little sports bar where probably 70 of it was spanish-speaking columbia fans but it's just such a cool environment um and walking around looking at all the um street art and graffiti so it's the

street art capital of the world. Yeah, it's pretty incredible. It's pretty incredible. So there's an event, I think it's in November, the Seed Food and Wine Festival. I was part of it last year. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go again. And a lot of the activities take place around Wynwood

and the adjacent area. And I hadn't been there in many years. And it was just so cool to see how that neighborhood has developed. And there's a lot of cool stuff happening there. Did you go to, have you been to Plant Food and Wine? Yeah, I've been there twice with Marco. Oh, you went with Marco.

Cool. So I'm so glad you guys connected. Yeah, me too. Marco Borges, former podcast guest, 22 days nutrition. Isn't he the coolest dude? He's awesome. Yeah. Just the

nicest guy. And he knows everybody in Miami. So I thought it would be great for you guys to hook up. Yeah. So, uh, so is he like introducing you around town? Um, I don't know that you need it. You're playing for the Miami dolphins doors swinging wide open for you wherever you go. I'm sure. No, not yet. I mean, he's such a busy guy too he's yeah you know we've been texting and we've hung out a couple times but he's in and out and he's in new york he's in san francisco he's um hanging out with um beyonce and jay-z so he's a little bit yeah he's got some stuff going on but for a guy who's doing all that kind of stuff like it would be easy to form the impression that he's you know in it for the sort of star

association. And it just couldn't be further from the truth. Like he's true blue, like so solid, you know, just grounded, good, like good dad, like family guy, like he's got his shit together. Yeah. He's awesome. And it's funny to see him pop up in a DJ college, Snapchat feed. You see that? Cause he goes and trains that dude. Yeah. It's so funny. Anyway. Um, that's great, man. I think it's a, it's a good fit for you. I'm excited to see, you know, how the season develops, like, how are you feeling and, you know, kind of what, maybe, you know, paint the picture a little bit about, you know, how it's all working and, you know, kind of what's on the line for you. Sure. you sure yeah um so a lot of people don't really

realize that nfl players can you know we have contracts but we can get cut any you know released by the team at any time um which is kind of weird for people to hear that they don't really realize it because you just think of contracts and like having that security but there's really no security, um, except for a handful of guys on each team. So, um, for me, I'm in kind of the same position I've been in a few times already in Indianapolis. Um, you know, just trying to prove myself and be as valuable as I can doing, doing different things on the team. Um, so we've got, you know, you'll usually keep five or six receivers on a team. And right now we've got Jarvis Landry and Devante Parker are, you know, top two receivers and then a handful of other guys kind of competing. Kenny Stills

is in there, um, myself. and then they also drafted a couple of young receivers this year. So there's, it's a lot of good competition. Um, but certainly something I've gotten used to at this point. Right. I mean, this has kind of been your thing for a while, right? Like you're kind of a yeoman, you know, journeyman dude who's fighting for his job, literally like every week. Yeah. And you know, I have this theory, it's not really a theory, but my perspective on, you know, you as an athlete is of this, this guy who's obviously gifted with a certain level of talent, but somebody who learned early and often that, uh, if you wanted to kind of, you know, bridge the talent gap and, you know, play above your level,

that you were going to have to work extra hard. And, you know, you've demonstrated that through like your tremendous work ethic and your focus on nutrition and detail. And, you know, we were talking about detail a little bit before the podcast to allow you to maybe, you know, get into situations that somebody who's, you know, what are you, 5'11", 190, you know, get into situations that somebody who's, you know, what are you five 11, one 90, you know, it's like, you know, guys of your stature aren't generally, you know, making the roster. Right. So is that a fair characterization? Yeah, absolutely. Um, I just, I just got a, I just wrote an email to a high school kid. He reached out to me on Snapchat, actually just saying he was a fan and asking if I had any advice. And I ended up writing him a pretty long email. I'll show it to you after

we're done, um, about exactly what you just said. Like, you know, I wasn't the best athlete in my high school. I, you know, I played against high school teams with a handful of better athletes every, every week. Um, but yeah, I was just fortunate enough to have to like learn as I go and have good coaches and mentors and pay attention and learn how to work it enough other things to sort of bridge that gap. Like you said, so you weren't even the best player on your high school team. Um, I mean, I was a good player. i wouldn't say i was our best athlete just like raw athleticism um you know i i have my skill set and um talent for sure but um wasn't blazing fast or super strong or any of those things you weren't a guy who like out of the gate everyone's tracking

saying we got to keep an eye on this dude. Like look at his 40, you know, and all that. No, definitely not. I didn't have any, didn't have any scholarship offers coming out of high school.

No, do you want to just, you walked on at Stanford, right? Yeah. That's crazy. I mean, I have a lot of,

you know, I see a lot of my own in a lot of different ways too, but a lot of, you know, I relate a lot of my own in a lot of different ways too, but a lot of, you know, I relate a lot to that because, uh, I was recruited by Stanford, but I wasn't a scholarship athlete, you know, so I wasn't really a walk-on, but I wasn't, I was kind of a bench warmer also. Um, but you know, I was a workhorse. Like I was always trying to get it, be the little fish in the big pond, because how else are you going to know right unless you put yourself in that situation it didn't know it didn't work out as well for me for you but i relate to that you know that perspective and um you know that ambition

so so you weren't even being recruited by so where so when you were where'd you grow up michigan in uh toledo toledo okay uh so when you're a senior in you grow up, Michigan? In Toledo. Oh, in Toledo, okay. So when you were a senior in high school, you're a pretty good ball player, but the coaches aren't calling. Some of them had to have been. I mean, there was like some communication and I basically sent highlight tapes to every school that I could think of.

And yes, Stanford was one that I actually heard back from and they, uh, they kind of said, you know, we like you as a player. And they, um, brought me out on a visit to see the campus and meet the coaches and stuff and said, you know, we'd, we'd love to, if you can get, you know, get into school, we'd love to have you as a walk-on on the team. We have a good reputation for allowing those guys to compete and earn scholarships if they're up to it. And basically, as soon as I walked on campus, I was sold. It's hard not to be. A kid from Toledo goes out to Stanford. Was that your first time in California?

It might've been. Yeah. Yeah. It's impressive. I mean, I had that same, you know, experience like, okay, that decision's been made, you know? Yeah. Right.

So, so you show up and essentially a walk on, but you end up becoming, I mean, it would be typical for you to red shirt your freshman year, right? But you ended up getting on the roster. Yeah. be typical for you to redshirt your freshman year right but you end up getting on the roster yeah um i ended up playing uh probably not like a great decision in hindsight um the first time i got in you know we were up big on the team and so they start taking some of the starters out and the special teams coach kind of looked over at me and he was like do you want to go return a couple punts I was like yeah absolutely so um yeah so I went in to return some punts and kind of finished the game at receiver and I don't think at that time they had any thought of maybe he's going to be one of our starting receivers in a couple years.

Right, right, right. So, yeah, I got to play in a couple games. When did the lights go on and either you began to believe or the coaching staff began to believe that you could be a starting wide receiver? began to believe that you know you could be a starting wide receiver I think going into my sophomore year you know there wasn't a lot of older guys ahead of me there was two guys one year older than me really Ryan Whalen no relations and Doug Baldwin who just got a big contract with the Seahawks as an under after guy pretty proud of him. So, you know, and a few other guys in my class that I was competing with, but

I don't know. I always felt like even then my skillset of just being able to be sort of quick and just catch the ball every time was useful. be sort of quick and just catch the ball every time was useful. Um, so just trying to find that role for myself and work really hard at in the weight room and on the field becoming just more athletic, bigger and faster. Um, so kind of going into my sophomore year and then I got to play more my sophomore year and then you know played a little bit more every year and after after my junior year I saw those two guys ahead of me um you know start training for the combine and each of them go make NFL teams and I that's when I kind of started to think you know I think I can do that too like Like, you know, I can play with those guys and, um, just kind of seeing them do it gave me the confidence in myself.

Well, a couple of things. I mean, first of all, you know, where does, where does the, the drive, the ambition, like the work ethic come from? I mean, did you have, you know, parents that instilled that in you or, you know, what do you think that's about for you? I don't think it was really my parents. I mean, they, you know, they never pushed me into anything. Like, you know, some of those parents, like, are constantly with their kids, like, taking them to different camps and you're going to do this and coaching them up and stuff. And I didn't have any of that. It was just kind of, you know, I played every, every you know every sport growing up and they were just like do whatever

you like and play which one you like best right have fun have fun yeah you have brothers and sisters um yeah i have a step sister and then a younger brother and sister um so for me i think it was just you know the first part it was just always a dream of mine like and something that i wanted really bad and two i'm just i think just being a really competitive person like i just don't like to lose at anything or like you know whatever it is like if i start playing ping pong with somebody like you know i want to i want to win it's just kind of that competitive what kind of kid were you in high school i mean you were the jock kid right you're playing every sport um rocking the leather

the letterman jacket and the whole deal yeah i mean but you're kind of a quiet studios guy too right you're not like a boisterous no party dude no not at all um definitely quieter but just loved like you know physical activities and doing that um competing that's just where i felt kind of comfortable um being myself and being aggressive on the field or the court whatever it may be um but yeah and i mean i was a good student too like that was something that was more so what my parents pushed on me was just like, make sure your grades come first. Right.

Yeah. So they had to be psyched when you decided you were going to go to Stanford. Yeah. And, uh, you know, like what, where, where, what were the other options like Ohio state like that more close to home? Ohio state. I could have been a walk on also, but that wasn't, I don't think, as much of an option. Dayton University is like a smaller school, Toledo University.

And then there was a couple of random ones like Syracuse I kind of liked because I was also thinking about playing lacrosse instead of football. I played that in high school too and it was was pretty good and i mean i like playing a lot lacrosse is not a lot of california though no i had a club team when i was there they still is it still a club still club team i actually played one year on the club you did yeah nice yeah so so how early into your stanford experience do you like sort of, you know, develop this relationship with Andrew Luck? That's, that's a big part of kind of your story and your evolution as a player.

Yeah. Um, kind of, kind of right away. Um, didn't know who he was, like, didn't know who anybody was, you know, he was a big recruit out of high school, but I didn't, I didn't know that. Um, and our class, like our whole class, um, that freshman class, we, we all like bonded a lot and, um, we were really close as a group. We still, you know, we still are. And yeah, I don't know. We just kind of hit it, you know, hit it off right away, just sort of similar personalities and got along right away and ended up being roommates the next three years through college. Where did you live at Stanford?

I was in Sarah. Oh, you were in Sarah. Yeah. All right. I was Wilbur. Oh, yeah? All right. So you're roommates with him.

And, you know, everybody knows everybody knows like this guy's a bright shining star i mean speaking of contracts i mean he just signed an insane contract this like like a week ago right 130 million dollars or something yeah he signed it yesterday yesterday yeah is that like the biggest contract in nfl history it is it is right like that's amazing yeah i mean did you know back then like he was headed in that direction um yeah like probably so he didn't play our freshman year they redshirted him and we always joke that we had like the best scout team offense you know ever we had him we had a few offensive linemen that are playing in the nfl now um a few receivers like just a pretty ended up being a pretty talented group um but yeah i mean pretty much

right away he kind of jumped off the field like wow like this guy's special and then um our our sophomore year as soon as he started playing in games um i think we all knew like right for sure like he's you know maybe gonna be the best player in the country in college and definitely gonna be a big time nfl player right and so for somebody who's listening who's kind of not that familiar with football which i count myself a month um you know what was the trajectory of the stanford program over the course of the four years that you were there under you know the andrew luck regime like it went from good to like great yeah much um yeah he was a big part of that and then coach harbaugh coming there was a big part of it i think they were um one and eleven or something like that the year before coach harbaugh coming there was a big part of it i think they were um one and 11 or something like that the year before coach harbaugh got there and then just improved every

year and we ended up going to um back-to-back bcs games and then after we graduated they continued that for a couple more years you know they've been good the past few years which has been awesome to see but yeah i mean he you know was a big part of totally turning around that program um just taking control of that offense and and the team overall um and it was fun i mean we just you know we had good coaches and good players and we were able to just have, you know, be ourselves and play and have fun out there. Yeah. It's a pretty amazing situation to be at, you know, such an incredible academic institution and be able to play sports at that level, like on the national level, internationally recognized. I mean, this is like, it doesn't get any better than that. Right. Yeah. No, it's cool. It's, it's weird too, because, and you know this, but like, um, like football players

aren't special at Stanford. Like maybe they are at, you know, a big sec school or something. Um, you know, it doesn't matter who it is. Even Andrew walking around, like, you know, there's several other Olympic athletes walking next to him. And, you know, the thing about Stanford is the thing about Stanford. That's so amazing. I think people think it's a bigger school than it actually is. They don't realize that, you know, it's, it's actually, it's not like, you know,

university of Michigan, like it's small, like your freshman class is what, like 1500, I think. Yeah. Um, and every single person that you meet you know is you know the andrew luck of whatever they're good yeah you know what i mean like yeah oh like in my class it's like oh she plays this she's the best strata various violin player in the world and like this person grew up on an alpaca farm and like that guy you know is a computer science wizard you know like everybody you meet has some weird thing about them that makes them super kind of interesting in different ways. And that's very true about Stanford. I mean, yeah, it doesn't matter who you are. Like everybody, yeah, that's cool. You do that, but like, I don't care. Cause I do this, which is cool. So, all right. So you

start to, you start to think like, Hey, maybe the NFL is perhaps in the cards for me if I, you know, if I work hard and, you know, get my house in order. But you didn't, you weren't drafted out of Stanford, right? So how do you end up, first of all, how do you end up in Indianapolis? And like, how amazing is it that you get to continue to play with Andrew Luck post-college? with Andrew Locke, you know, post college. Um, yeah, so one undrafted and, um, I had, the way it works is like, you can kind of be in communication with teams and stuff throughout that weekend. Um, so towards the end of the draft, I started getting calls like, um, Hey, you know, if you, if you don't get drafted and, um, if we don't take another receiver in the last round or whatever, like, we'd love to talk to you

about coming over as an undrafted free agent. And so I had a few of those phone calls and at that point, it's just kind of strategy. Like, um, with my agent, Like with my agent, we sat down and looked at, and it happens pretty quickly, actually. So we tried to have somewhat of an idea before the draft, but then you never know what's going to happen throughout it, too. So then we're sitting there looking at the teams that call, and the first call is Harbaugh from san francisco he went that's good that's a call you want to have right no that's exciting yeah it was cool

um and we have a good relationship so i was excited about that um and then a couple other teams, one of which was Indy, and it just kind of made so much sense. They, especially roster-wise, they didn't have a very full roster at receiver, so that just was the best opportunity for me. And then Andrew going there and us being able to work together in the preseason leading up to it and then just knowing each other so well, um, it made a lot of sense and it was actually, uh, in a way a little bit riskier. Um, you know, coach Harbaugh said, definitely want to bring you over here.

Um, you know, you can compete for a spot and I'll definitely keep you on practice squad if you can't make the roster, which is, you know, as an undrafted guy, that's kind of a big deal, making a practice squad. Right. So explain what that means. Like being on the practice squad basically means you're still gainfully employed and part of the organization. Right. So there's 53 players that are on the roster and at the time there were eight there are now 10 practice squad players and they it's it's the exact same as being on the roster except for like sundays you just don't dress for the game so you

still practice every day you go to the meetings you go to everything. You just don't go to, you know, you don't dress for the games. And you don't have like a, like a con, like a big contract, like everybody, you know, you make a lot less. So having that security was like kind of a big deal actually for an undrafted player. But we talked about it and looked at the Colts and said you know our my goal is to make a roster and actually contribute and play um so it might be riskier because i might not even make the practice squad there but it's you know i felt like it was kind of worth it for a shot to make a roster right so in other words the you the, the roster had some holes in it

that you thought you could fill that perhaps didn't exist in San Francisco. Yeah, exactly. Gotcha. So yeah, that's a little bit of a gamble and a risk. Yeah. Um, but you get to go and be with your boy. Yeah. Right. And, uh, and so you show up and, you know, sort of long story short, I mean, you work your way up into the roster. like how long did that did that take um so my rookie year i actually was doing really well um in the office like in the off season in the rookie there's a rookie mini camp and then right at the beginning of training camp i break my foot and it was a j fracture, which is the 2012 or 2013 Jones fracture, which is that fifth metatarsal of your foot, um, a really small stress fracture. So talking with the doctors and the GM and the coach about what my options are and they lay them out and basically I can do surgery and fix it. And that puts me out,

um, maybe two, two and a half months, um, which is missing the entire training camp and preseason. Mm. I can just kind of wait it out and let it heal naturally, which is a lot longer, six months, maybe, I don't know what it is. Um, that one was kind of like not even really on the table. And then they said, you know, you can try and we can just treat the hell out of it, put a, you know, bone stimulator or everything on it, you know, five times a day. And, um, we'll have you on crutches, non-weight bearing for a week and then see how it feels and scan it again and then have you work back slowly putting weight on it um for another week and hopefully get you in some of

the pre-season games um so again as an undrafted guy if i miss the entire training camp in pre-season there's zero chance over for zero chance of making the team um pretty low of making the practice squad even you just kind of like i mean i don't know like for my class i think i was the only undrafted player like to stay with the colts so out of i don't know 20 or 30 so just to show you like most of them are just gone their rookie year after that first first training camp right so missing that would have been pretty detrimental um so we went with the other option and i took the time off that i needed to and came in and played in two pre-season games which the rosters are much bigger at that point so you're it's kind

of like a tryout for everybody right so. So instead of splitting it with six receivers, you're splitting it with 12 maybe. Um, so I got in pretty much just, just in the fourth quarter of those two games and, um, was fortunate to have two really good games, um, had like eight or 12 catches or something. Um, and, and then at the end of that, the last game I was in, I made a cut running around like a sharp cut and just felt it pop and kind of broke it the rest of the way. So, but it was okay. You know, it was, but you were able to show everybody that you could perform. They brought me back in. They said, look, you were really impressive in the preseason. We're happy with what we see.

We'll put you on IR for this year. IR is injured reserve. So you're basically, it's like a subgroup on the team where you're still on the team and you still get paid and you're just basically rehabbing the whole time. So you don't, you don't go to practice. You don't do any of that.

It makes you, you're in this kind of weird purgatory though, right? Like, but you probably sort of cool. Cause you're like, I don't really have to do anything. But at the same time,

I'm sure you're Jones and you know, you want to be on the field and it, it keeps you on your contract. So like I get to come back next year and like be on the team again. Um, so it worked out a lot and it actually probably worked out more so than I know. Um, looking back, I realized that, um, I was pretty naive about my situation, like just about my odds of making anything, the team or the practice squad. I think I just kind of, which I'm not saying it's a bad thing.

Like I just was confident that in how well I was playing that like I'm making this team, like I'm playing way too good right now. Right, but in retro, you mean like sort of in retrospect, looking back upon it, thinking like, yeah, I didn't really, like, I don't know why I was so confident. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear that a lot with a lot of people that I have on the show.

Like, that idea of naivete kind of playing into your favor. Like, if I'd known what I was up against, like, I never would have, maybe I wouldn't have even tried or wouldn't have believed in myself. Right. Not knowing. You're just kind of like, yeah, man, I'm going to rock this. Yeah. And then finding a way to make it work. Yeah.

finding a way to make it work yeah like looking back i think it would have been more likely to be my rookie year probably on practice squad hopefully as opposed to the next year being on the active roster and actually playing so um and but in my head that my rookie year i was i was pretty i was sure i was making the team. Like, I'm just, I'm playing really well right now. Like why wouldn't they, why wouldn't they keep me? So, and they're sending, they're telling you, you know, you're performing, right. They're giving you the feedback. It's interesting. You know, it's like this, this, this pattern, you know, emerges of you kind of saying, Oh, there's an opportunity here. Like I can like wedge myself into this thing where

maybe i've got a 10 shot of making it and then trying to find a way to maximize it and make it work to your favor and like repeat rinse and repeat you know getting you know getting into stanford showing up getting on the rock you know then playing and then excelling and then you know repeating that process on the various teams that you've been on yeah yeah it's cool all right so you you recover from this foot injury right and then you know then you're you know then you're you're basically playing yeah um so i come in and I'm playing my second year. And I mean, it's not by any means smooth sailing from there. I'm still an undersized little white guy that doesn't have any business being out there, according to most people. And how does that work with like the teammates and the coaching

staff like i'm really interested in you know the reality of what it is to be a professional athlete an nfl player versus the perception of what that might look like based on watching ballers on hbo or something like that because i think the average person has this idea well if you're playing i mean you're just rocking every aspect of your life and you're driving a Ferrari and living in a man, you know what I mean? Like, like what is the day to day like truth, uh, you know, of what it's like to walk a mile in your shoes as a guy who's like, yeah, you're playing, you're glad to be making it, but you're still, you know know watching your rear and worrying about your job week in week out yeah i mean the minute you get satisfied with where you're at you're in trouble like you're

going to be gone um you know no matter who you are um maybe not andrew luck maybe not him anybody everybody everybody else yeah um but yeah there's you know there's a maybe two three four guys on every team that have that security and um you know their lives look a little bit like ballers and they just kind of um have that luxury um and ever but even those guys like like even those guys even andrew like he you know you have to be hungry every day and you have to be a professional um and like it's a huge commitment like the time the time put in behind the scenes is is a lot yeah so you i would think there's more than two or three like i would think oh there's probably 15 guys you know they're the guys they can relax

i mean they work hard or whatever but they're not worried about getting cut they're worried about getting injured i'm sure um i think they're even i don't know it seems like even those guys like you can be replaced you can you know you can be traded there's always kind of a little bit of that i think what is like of all the movies that are out there or tv shows about the nfl like is there one out there that actually is accurate or best represents what it's really like um the the i mean hard knocks isn't really like it's more a reality show but right that's kind of a good peek into like what it's like.

Cause you can see. Those are really the guys. Yeah. You can see the, the guys at the bottom end that are fighting, you know, scratching and clawing for everything. And you can see, um, the top end guys that are, you know, more secure, but they're still like working their butts off. Maybe they just have different goals. It's not to make the team it's to, you know, it's to get to the playoffs or it's

to get to a pro bowl or whatever it is. But so when you meet people, I'm sure they just project an idea of who they think you are on you because, because of what you do, is there one thing that you would say like, I wish they just understood, like, like they don't, if they could just get like this one thing about what it is actually like. Um, I mean, you kind of explained it already, but yeah, I mean, it's just, it's not what people think. Like it, I mean, it's, it's cool and it's awesome. Like I wouldn't trade it for anything. Um, it's been a great experience and I mean, there's tons of perks for sure, but there's just a lot of, you know, there's a lot of other things going on and just like, just

like with any other job. Um, and that's kind of what I tell people is like, it's a job, like you have a job that you have to, you have to work really hard for. Um, so that's, that's what it is to us. Like we have to be professionals and right. What are, what are the cool perks? Um, I mean, there's the obvious things, right. But like, what is something that like kind of that happens? That's sort of cool that maybe you were thought like, Oh, I wouldn't have thought that. I mean, the best thing is the schedule, like having

several months of just off time. Like you basically have all of February and March and half of April, um, on your own. Like, right. So, you know, I've done a bunch of traveling. You can't just like get fat and like, you know what I mean? No, probably not. Probably not the best idea. Yeah. Like be lazy and watch a bunch of TV. Yeah. I mean, you can do whatever you want. There's guys that, there's guys that do, you know, pretty close to that. Really? Yeah. Probably need probably, there's probably some, uh, logic in that, in that you just, you're just killing your body.

So you gotta let it just, you gotta just go into a catatonic state and let it heal itself. For sure. Um, yeah. And the guys that play a lot and really get, really get beat up in the season, need some time off, like literally not doing anything, maybe stretching or yoga or, you know, riding on a bike or something, but not, you know, everybody needs time off after the season. It's just such a, it's a brutal grind. So you need that time off. All right. So let's, let's unpack the whole diet thing. Cause it's a brutal grind so you need that time off all right so let's let's unpack the whole diet thing uh because it's super interesting um you know you're a plant-based athlete you have been for a couple years now right like two years yeah a little over two years i think um so two years

plant-based but i think this interest in performance and nutrition and trying to, you know, find that edge, you know, where is that, you know, little nook and cranny that I can exploit, you know, is something that's anchored in who you are. Um, and I know that, you know, Andrew Luck has said, you know, uh, Griff showed up at Stanford. I think when you were a freshman, you had, you know, he looked a little pudgy and weren't all like, like now you're all super cut up and everything like that. But that wasn't always the case, right? And Andrew's like, I don't know if this guy's going to make it. You know what I mean? And he watched you evolve. Like he watched you, uh, come to the understanding of what it was going to take for you to, you know, play ball at Stanford, get interested in nutrition, take it seriously and

actually like implement it in a very methodical way. And that's of course evolved over the years. So, you know, where did that begin? Um, yeah, like just to step out even a little further, like the biggest thing I learned is that it takes more than just a ton of attention and focus in one area. Um, you know, those, to me, those things all, whether it's having good time management skills or being able to set goals or being committed in the weight room or making it to class on time, like, or being a good, you know, friend or family member, whatever it is. I think all those things, um, just relate to each other so much. Cause it's, it's more about, um, you like doing your best

at all those things and like really giving yourself the best chance at, um, at just improving, at proving, improving at all those things and just being your best. Um, so for me, it was looking at what different things can I do? And obviously like spending a lot of time in the weight room and running and stuff like that was a big part of it. Um, but then I started to learn about nutrition and how important that was. You know, I, growing up in Ohio, um, you know, my diet was sugar and candy and burgers, you know, just didn't know anything, didn't know anything about nutrition. And when you're that young, just trying to bulk up a ton of food. Yeah. And when you're that young, like it doesn't make a

huge difference, especially if you're, um, playing like four sports a year, like you just, you know, it doesn't matter to you. Um, so I started to kind of learn about it and buy into like, okay, nutrition's important. And, um, learning the science behind it helped convince me like, I mean, just learning for basics, like this is what a carbohydrate is and this is what it does for your body. And okay, I need to eat, you know, this amount of those at this time and that kind of thing. So in college starting to, you know, our strength coach took us through a lot of stuff and kind of introduced everybody to like nutrition and like start caring about it and eat, eat good foods. Um, so through college trying to eat healthier and get better at it. Um, were you doing like meal

plan all the way through or did you have like a place where you, where you're cooking your own food? Um, I was doing meal plan until I think until my last, my senior year. And then, um, and then I started cooking more and, um, cause we were in like kind of an apartment style dorm. Um, so we had like a kitchen and stuff and there wasn't a dining room over there. So, um, senior year started cooking more and then it wasn't until a room over there. So senior year, started cooking more. And then it wasn't until a couple years after that that I was first sort of introduced to the whole plant-based diet. And the first thing I saw was the Engine 2 documentary on Netflix.

Right, Forks Over Knives. Yeah. So watching Rip Esselelstein go around and take a couple families go into their kitchen and throw almost everything away right um and then take them to the store and listening to him talk about what the different things do for your body and why you should eat these um and and then file i followed that up with forks over knives and i was just like oh yeah i was called uh i know you're saying so yeah that rip movie was called it's called like kitchen you know engine emergency kitchen kitchen rescue yeah kitchen

rescue right right right um and then i watched forks over knives and was just totally blown away like i was i was just shocked i didn't know any of those things like there's so much information in there that is amazing that people don't know um so i was you know i was like all right i'm gonna do the 28 day challenge from the engine 2 diet so that was it like you watched the movie and you were like i'm gonna give it a go it was it was in the off season and um so what this is 2013 it was uh 2014 yeah um so it's in the off season and maybe march or something how how would you been eating prior to that like you've been focused on nutrition you're studying nutrition you're interested in it. Like what were the books you

were reading or what was your source of information that was informing what you were doing and how was that working for you? Um, it wasn't anything, you know, I had struggled to find anything that I really liked that I really felt like gave me a good foundation. It was more like kind of online blogs and like things like that of like what different people were eating. And like, um, I don't know. I kind of struggled to find a really something that I really believed in to follow a cohesive program, but I was eating like a lot of just, um, chicken breasts and fish, like grilled stuff like that, and then a bunch of salads, smoothies.

So you weren't like hitting, you know, Burger King and... No, I stopped doing... You cleaned all that. Yeah, stopped doing fast food. And what's going on, you know, with your fellow players on the Colts? So you're eating salmon and chicken breast and all that like and what's the typical diet it probably i'm sure it varies but yeah like you could generalize what the typical diet of the nfl player in your perspective

you'd be you'd be amazed um it is a huge range like there there are guys that eat, you know, McDonald's and Popeyes for every meal. Right. And have a soda with every meal. And they're like freak athletes still. Like it really is crazy. And then there's guys who, you know, watch everything. You know, they're not weighing their food, but they watch everything they eat and think, think about it and plan it out and stuff like that. Um, but yeah, the, the range of just the scope of different, different diets guys follow is, is pretty crazy. Yeah.

Is that, I would imagine like the linemen and those guys are eating a lot more than, you know, special teams guys. Yeah. Um, but a lot of the linemen are really healthy eaters. Um, even having to stay as big as they do. Um, the ones who eat healthy, you don't seem to have a problem, um, not eating the bad foods and keeping that weight on. Interesting. Yeah. All right. all right so you know in the grand scheme of things you have a pretty clean diet right you're right you're doing like what everybody would say that's a pretty healthy approach sea forks over knives all right off season so kind of low risk like off season 20 it's not like you're in the middle of you know the season where that would

have been tricky yeah i imagine so yeah, my, my ex-girlfriend, my girlfriend at the time, we watched it together and she started doing it first, the 28 day challenge. And, um, like a week into it, she's just like bouncing off the walls. She feels so good. And that's when I was like, all right, I'm like, I definitely have to do this and like start the next day. Um, and like the same thing happened, like the same thing happened to me. Um, it is just such a change. And like, I don't know what's what, if it's one specific part, like if it's the dairy or the meat more, so I don't know what it is, but a few days into it, so I don't know what it is, but a few days into it, just that energy level goes up. Um,

you start to realize that you've been, you've had inflammation basically all over your body without even realizing it. And all of a sudden you just feel clear and light and you can move easier. Um, I remember running just felt, I felt so light and, um and it's just so much easier to move around. So that convinced me. I did that and then went back for workouts and I did, I think I did like almost a month of basically the same diet. Like I wasn't, I was trying not to do the oils and added stuff too, but I added, um, fish, like I was eating salmon and I did that for a few weeks. And then through one, through just feeling how I felt before. And then just through more research,

um, felt like I didn't need that. Like my thought was, you know, just getting extra protein and the fish oils, you know, omega threes being so important for me. Um, but then I just, I cut that back out after, um, a few weeks. Yeah. It's interesting. Um, you know, a couple observations. I mean, first of all, uh, you know, I had that same experience, like, you know, a week into it and you're like feeling so good all of a sudden. And it's like this light bulb moment. You're like, oh, my God. You know, and I would imagine as a football player, look, as an endurance athlete, you know, inflammation, combating inflammation is very important in terms of recovery and injury prevention and all of that stuff.

But it's not a contact sport and it's not about, you know, bulking up and strength training and the kind of things that you do that are important you know agility speed strength force and constantly bashing into people you know the inflammation issue is gigantic right and to discover a way of eating that suddenly is is you know improving that that's a you know that's that's anti-inflammatory is like a, is like a magic bullet. But I think it's very common also to go, yeah, but you know, I'm in the NFL, man. Like, you know, I gotta like, you know, like I gotta get a little bit of this stuff. Like I gotta get salmon and omega-3, like of course that would occur to you. Right. So it's

interesting that you tried that and then said, yeah, I don't know if I need that. Like, what was that decision like? Um, I mean, it was fun. Like I was totally, did you feel different when you started eating salmon and then different when you stopped it again? Or was it that more of an imperceptible? No, I didn't notice a difference. Um, but I just, once I got to the point where I made that decision like i felt good about it and um you know i had read up a little bit more on how much protein i thought i need and omega-3s and guys like that. Um, which went on the podcast. Yeah. So that kind of showed me like, and David Carter. Yeah. Um,

David Carter, I didn't hear about until, uh, after that though. Um, but yeah, I was like, I don't see how this is going to be an issue. I just, it feels so good. And like, it's totally worth it to me to, um, feel like that. And I mean, uh, and the recovery, like, you know, athletes, like I hear you talk about the recovery all the time. And so do I, cause you just feel like it's crazy. You can do a crazy workout and come back the next day and do another one. It's such a big difference to be in in the nfl i mean that's a huge thing you're just getting beat up it's such a massive level every single day and you know anything that you can do to expedite your body's ability to bounce back yeah is huge yeah right so you're not dragging ass when you're coming into practice or yeah three days after a game

and even with injuries like i feel feel like, um, you know, cause I'm still, I'm still going to get injuries. Like I'm still playing football. So, but I feel like they, I can heal a lot quicker. Um, whatever, if it's a muscle strain or something, like, I really feel like it gets better faster. Um, which is really cool to see. Yeah. One of the things I always say is, you know, people, people say, Oh, well, uh, you know, do you think eating plant based makes you a better athlete? And it's like, it's not, it's not that it makes you a better athlete, but there are certain things, advantages of eating that way that over time can help you perform, you know, more maximally by undermining, you know, your body's, uh, you know, the, by undermining the body's receptivity to injury, you know,

overtraining, you know, recovering more quickly, all of these things, like, you know, if your immune system is working optimally, then you're less likely to get sick and mispractice and all those kinds of things that all play into, uh, you know, maximizing your performance over the course of a season or a number of years. So it's not like it just makes you a better athlete, but it does improve certain aspects of what it means to perform as an athlete. I think. Yeah. That's the other thing I was going to say too, is, um, you know, I think I would sort of like most people get a little cold or get sick, uh, once or twice a year. Um, and I haven't like in the two and a half years I've been doing this, I haven't been

sick at all. Like I haven't missed anything. Yeah. And you're, and you're killing yourself. Yeah. Right. That's interesting. So, all right.

So you kind of have this epiphany, you do the salmon experiment. Uh, but the real test is you know when you go back to camp or you're hitting the weight room or you're doing you know sprint repeats you know what are the numbers looking like are you starting to think like i wonder if this is going to work like there had to be i mean you had to have a lot of questions like you're kind of like a guinea pig right um yeah i think one thing that benefited me was just having gone to Stanford and, um, just being a little bit smarter guy. Like I think a lot of the staff and people that look at stuff like that and the nutritionists and stuff, um, just kind of gave me the benefit

of the doubt that I had done some homework and, you know, they talked to me and like, you know, you sure you're getting enough carbs before practice? So did you, when did you kind of declare this openly? Did you tell the coaching staff right away or? Well, I had to talk to, I don't know who I told, like talk to first about it, but I had to talk to like the team chef, um, just making sure there's stuff I could eat and kind of going through that with him. Um, so I think it was mostly him and the like strength coach, nutritionist, that kind of thing. Um, but cool about it. Were any of them like, come on, man, what are you doing? Um, not really like, you know, they weren't jumping over the moon about it, but they weren't shutting it down or anything. And I think, um,

I think the hard thing was just kind of learning what to eat and what to have them prepare and stuff like that. Um, but yeah, there, it wasn't a big deal. And then, but I also wasn't shouting out that I was doing this. Um, not because I was like in any way shying away from it. It was more so like, I didn't want to start saying like, Oh, I'm a vegan or plant-based or whatever, having only done it for a few months. And I didn't want to start saying like I'm a vegan or plant-based or whatever, having only done it for a few months. And I didn't want to like, yeah. Well, if you decided three months later it wasn't working for you or whatever, you have like a legion of angry vegans chasing you down, you know. Nobody wants that.

Well, because what happens is when somebody who's, you know, in the public spotlight decides they're going to do it like that's somebody that you know the community can champion and that's a good thing but that has its inherent risks too yeah yeah so you know i wanted to get some time under my belt of um doing it getting used to it making sure it worked for me, um, before it started, you know, you know, kind of getting out there and, um, yeah, but it's not like there's 10 NFL athletes you could call and say, how did you do it? What should I avoid? What should I be looking to do? No. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, literally. Yeah. I mean, like, is there anybody else in the, I mean, David Carter is not playing anymore. He's not in the NFL right now I mean is there anybody else then or

now um I don't know I've heard of guys kind of dabbling with it on and off um but I don't know of anybody who adheres to it full-time and I read something about Jarvis though yeah so he what's going on um well you know we'll see he um it's cool like first of all the dolphins have been awesome like um when i was a free agent uh this past year after my contract was up i went down there and they um you know i met with everybody and then they took me to a all all plant vegan plant-based restaurant um which was cool just to see like how open they were about it. And it was kind of funny. I was there with two coaches, one of whom had been there and one of whom had never been anywhere remotely like that. So he was kind of like looking at the

menu and looking at us and like, you know, what do I order? Like, is that a burger? Is that, is that a burger? Or, and we're like, no, it's not, it's not an actual burger. Um, but it was cool. And like their nutritionist was totally stoked to just talk to me about what I'm eating and, um, how she can help. And the chef there is awesome about it, the whole organization. So, yeah, that was really cool. I forgot where I was going with this. That's all right. I mean, and for the record, we're going to get into, for the listeners out there, don't worry. I'm going to ask him exactly what he eats because I know everybody wants to know that.

But I got to get through the story first. So, what happens when you start hitting it hard, right? Like in camp and you got to like perform, like what is, you know, I'm sure you're looking at those numbers and thinking, you know, is this going to work? Yeah. Um, I don't know. I, maybe it comes back to my naivety again, but I wasn't like worried about it. I was just, yeah, I was pretty confident in it. And, um, like I had never felt better. So I was just, I was just excited to, um, sort of have that extra advantage is what it felt like to me. And so how did it play out? Like when you're, you know, like the progression of your, you know, bench press or whatever those numbers are that you're looking at week in week out,

like, are you getting better? Are you the same? Is it a little bit slower like i know you lost you went from 195 to 190 yeah so you lost a little weight yeah i had to be a little bit of a you know i don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing maybe that makes you faster no i was i was totally okay with that um i you know i felt like 190 was a better weight for me, um, just for being faster, like you said, but yeah, so I lost that five pounds in the first month or two. Um, and then I haven't fluctuated at all since then. Um, but yeah, so in the off season when I'm lifting pretty heavy, um, I did see everything get better. You know, my weight went down, my body fat went way down. Um, but like squat and deadlift went up, bench went up and like,

um, the sprints and stuff, like we timed some, um, flying like twenties and thirties and stuff. And, um, I got a lot faster at those two, which at the time was like a big goal of mine to just try and find anything that'll help me get a little faster. So that's amazing, for a stronger, you know, five pounds less, but stronger in the weight room and faster. Yeah. Yeah.

So that had to be, you know, kind of an interesting moment with the coaching staff too this is we're talking about indianapolis now right like so they must be going all right well this is working out yeah right and so but the guys must be giving you shit in the locker room oh yeah so what's that like oh yeah um i mean it's good it's all like fun and games, like it's all good. Um, but yeah, there's, there's pretty much constant, like poking fun at me and stuff and a lot of comments about, um, just finding some twigs and berries to eat or, you know, whatever. Um, but it's been really cool. And the, you know, a lot of really good conversations just at lunch, you know, I sit down with my plate and it's a natural just conversation starter. Like, um, they just kind of look over and so,

you know, what's your deal with like, what's your issue with dairy or like, you know, what, why not fish or whatever it is? And it just starts a conversation. What's wrong with a couple eggs? Yeah. And guys are genuinely interested. So how do you respond to that? Like, how does it, like, let's play that conversation out. Like, pretend I'm one of those guys. And I'm like, come on, man. Like, you got to have a little salmon, right? Like, what do you do? Like, why are you depriving yourself?

Like, you need your protein. Right. So for me, I think, for one, I get plenty of protein just from the plants I'm eating. And I think it's a huge misconception about how much protein we actually need. You know, I know before I started looking into all this, I would have guessed that maybe for what I was trying to do as an athlete, that maybe 50% of my calories should be protein. Whoa, 50, yeah. Just kind of, you know. Just not knowing anything. You think lean protein, that's what I need.

And I think that's a common misconception, just people thinking that along those lines. So that's the first thing is you don't need as much protein as you might think. Not only that, when you're eating too much, your body can't, it's not, it's not bioavailable or processing it properly anyway. Right.

Um, and it just ends up being fat on your body that you don't want anyway. Um, but yeah, so like if I'm, you know, if you're coming in from practice and you're making a protein smoothie with, you know,

25 grams of protein and then you're eating a big fillet of fish with, you know, another 15 grams of protein, like that, you know, 25 grams of protein, and then you're eating a big fillet of fish with, you know, another 15 grams of protein, like that, you know, that's too much for your body. Like, um, so the one, that's the one thing is that like, just, you don't need it for the protein. Um, and then the whole fish industry, like kind of every industry is a little like wishy-washy, but fish too, like, um, you know, you don't know exactly where it's coming from. You don't know what kind of toxins are in it or like what it was fed and, and those kinds of things, um, have been proven to mess you up long-term, um, which some people have a harder time, uh, focusing on and worrying about, but still like, um, to me, like if I don't need to eat it and if I feel better eating something,

you know, something else that's better for me, it's obvious, obvious decision. So then without the salmon and without the fish oil, where are you getting the omega threes? Um, I do a lot of like flax seed i'll do that every day and smoothies and then my oatmeal and chia seeds um those are probably my biggest sources yeah get on the hemp seeds too man so man i oh you can't you probably can't does that can't do it creates like a weird thing with uh yeah it's so bizarre i used to like when i first got into it i was all about hemp seeds. I was putting them on everything.

Smoothies, like pouring them on my oatmeal. I was like, these are great. Super high in protein. High in omega-3s. They're like a perfect food. They're perfect. And I was all about them. And then I don't remember how I found out that hemp was on like the banned substance list for NFL.

It's so crazy. Yeah yeah it has no psychoactive i emailed the guy like you know this is kind of a big part of my diet and you know what's the issue with it and his response was something along the lines of um you know it just being related to cannabis or marijuana whatever like there's an off chance of if you ate a large amount of it there's an off chance you could test positive for something and i don't know yeah i don't agree with it but testing policies on that i don't know how all that stuff works but it is it does seem a little bit silly yeah all right so so walk me through a typical day in food. Um, so almost every day I, I do oatmeal for breakfast and I, I've got like my recipe down that I like just love and I am like

excited to get up and eat it every day. Um, so I just oats, I add, um, cinnamon and cacao powder. I add chia seeds and flax seed, um, goji berries, raisins, and some like maca powder. Um, and then I'll kind of, so I'll use that and then like add the boiling water to, you know, everything and sort of let it, I saw you do that on Snapchat. There we go. Yeah. Yeah. You're rocking the Snapchat.

Yeah. You know, so if people want to get down with what you're up to, man, you've been pretty diligent about sharing, you know, you live a really interesting life. Yeah. So it's pretty cool. So the Snapchat is just Griff Whalen, right? um snapchat is g whalen 17 okay um 17 but twitter is just griff whalen and it's got my snapchat on there so you can find it um but side note a classmate of mine invented snapchat oh really yeah evan spiegel yeah oh he's your classmate we were

in we were in every class together we were product design majors oh you were product design that's a really cool major oh yeah really cool um you to like make stuff i remember like like it was yesterday um we had a class project and we got split up into like groups uh-huh and it didn't have anything to do with the product it was more like create a business model for whatever you want, just to kind of learn how to make a business model. And I was sitting next to him and I asked him like, do you know what you're going to do your project on? And he's like, yeah, I've got this idea for an app, um, where you can basically

send a picture to one of your friends. And once they open it, it'll just disappear after 10 seconds. And I was like, you know, like that's a dumb idea i was like all right that's that's kind of cool and you know good luck with that that's cool and he's like yeah don't don't tell anybody because i actually want to make it and i was like yeah whatever like go go for it that's incredible that's amazing so that was what that was what 2000 that was what, 2000? That was 2011, I think. And then he, you know, by next year, he had gotten somebody to help him code it and engineer it. And people on campus started using it. And like a month later, it was just kind of like everywhere.

Oh, so was it sort of like Facebook where it kind of grew, you know, just at Stanford? Yeah. I don't know if it was intentional the way facebook was um but i mean that's just where he could reach people so that's where it started um but i didn't i mean i didn't even make one until probably two years ago i was you know i thought it was cool and that he you know was having success with it but a couple years ago i finally decided to make one and it and i mean how great is it like it's it's pretty cool right yeah well when they changed it to add the stories function that changed everything yeah you know that that made it like something oh i didn't even before that it was sort of this weird skeezy thing like oh this is where you send you know

i wasn't even on it before this no i wasn't either like when it was stories and i was like oh wow you can it's almost like vlogging like you can literally just append these little clips and share them with everyone. I mean, I think that was a game changer. Yeah. But what's most impressive is how him and his team have continued to innovate. Yeah, absolutely. They're not just, they're not just small iterations, you know, they're like making, they're really changing the game completely. It's super interesting. So was he a guy who you identify like you could tell like oh this guy's some kind of crazy mark zuckerberg genius or was it um he's kind of like a you know like he's not like a nerdy computer science guy right no it's kind of like a popular handsome he's like a savvier like i think he's from la and like um kind of like

businessy street smart kind of guy really sharp like um you know outgoing guy and like you could tell like just from being in classes with him um but yeah i mean i couldn't believe the just kind of meteoric rise of it though it's crazy crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Like saying no to the Facebook offer and all of that. Oh yeah. I couldn't believe when he did that. It's amazing. All right. Well, that's super interesting. That was worth getting off track. Anyway. Yeah. Back to the oatmeal. So I'll like, yeah, I'll add boiling water and kind of let it sit and sit for a minute. Um, and then put some almond butter or whatever nut butter on top of it. Um,

and, and then a bunch of fruit, whatever, whatever I feel like that day. Um, and that, I mean, that's it, but I like, I like, I'm like excited to eat it every day. I just, I love it. So that's breakfast. Yeah. And then you go train. Train in the morning. And then.

When you're training, like, how are you hydrating? Like, are you doing the, the, like the, you know, the powdered drinks and all that kind of stuff? Or is it water? Is it coconut? Like, well, how do you. I've done some different things like one of the first things i did was um the vegas sport like electrolyte powder um just because i wanted to do that instead of gatorade because oh like all we have available to us is gatorade yeah it's got to be a lot of sugar water going on. Um, yeah. And so I did that for a while

and I like coconut water a lot. Um, I don't have that like, you know, ready and available at practice and stuff like that. But if I'm just training somewhere, like that's something I like to grab. Um, but I, I usually just do water. Um, and like, I don't, I don't know, I don't have a problem. Like I'm not a guy who cramps up and like, I don't, I don't know, I don't have a problem. Like I'm not a guy who cramps up and like, I don't have issues with that fortunately. So even, even in Miami, in the humidity, but, um, usually water, um, post-workout or practice. I've got a shake that I usually make. Um'll do some bananas some dates some a little bit of lemon juice and almond milk and some protein powder um what kind what kind of

protein powder um i've been through a few of those too uh the vegas sport one i liked a lot and i did one recently epic protein from i think it's sprout sprouted living or sprout living yeah i don't know that one um epic are they the same ones that make like the buffalo bar the epic bar no uh i don't think so yeah but a friend of mine sent that to me and i um i like that one right now i tried marco stuff right now i'm using marcos yeah it's good i mean because it's organic too yeah great there aren't that many organic varieties out there and that's a pretty high quality yeah he sold me on the the quality of it he's he was excited about just you know because they test it um themselves and compare compared to some other ones on the, on the market. And, you know, he's excited about how

just quality, how much higher it is. And you gotta be careful about all that kind of stuff, right? Like drug testing and there's so much contamination. You go into GNC and just buy whatever, like, you don't know what that stuff is. That's what I used to do. Yeah. I'm sure most guys on the team do that, right? Just hammering the whey protein and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. It seems like the older guys get the less stuff they use just because, um, I guess you just become more aware of the, like the fact that you don't really know what's in it. Um, I also think I've heard this from many people, and this has been my experience, the older athletes,

like the athletes that are in the twilight of their career who are looking to squeeze a couple more years out of, you know, injury-free play. I mean, there's like, you know, it's like there's a lot of money on the line, right? If I can get another year out of this. They're the ones who are going to be more interested and curious and open to trying

something different and new so i would imagine like you you got like the veteran guys might be the ones who might be coming to you when no one's looking and saying hey man tell me what's this thing you're doing um and you know i've for me it's been everybody actually like yeah hasn't been just older guys um a lot a lot of the younger guys too um just kind of curious about things and like i don't know if any of them are gonna you know if it's gonna result in them making any changes but right but just asking questions about it in it from a genuine place yeah Yeah. Yeah, interesting. All right, so lunch. Lunch, it's been awesome down in Miami. The food at the facility they've got there is world-class. It's awesome.

Where do you guys practice? It's in Davie, sort of by Fort Lauderdale. Okay, and you're living in Fort Lauderdale, right? Yep, yep. And yeah, the food's all like fresh food like a lot of organic stuff um a lot of local stuff and um you know the chef thinks it's cool to like have somebody on a different diet where he gets to experiment a little bit so he'll make me some different right man he gets to like do what he does instead of just making the same thing. So there's like, there's always a salad bar and fruit bar and big smoothie station.

And then there's, it's not like, I kind of like how good of a rotation they have. It's not like there's grilled chicken breast every day and like pasta every day. There's, it's totally different. Um, but there's usually a bunch of different vegetables, um, a couple of different meat selections. Uh, and then there's like a little sandwich area too. Um, so I'll, I'll do that a lot too and just make, you know, hummus, avocado, spinach wraps and, um, those are always easy

and have you ever tried to play around with gluten-free yeah um i did and i kind of noticed um a bit of a difference in the afternoon i like especially after lunch i felt like I didn't get, um, as tired and I don't know, I sort of noticed that I sometimes would get that kind of lull in the afternoon and get a little tired after eating. Um, and I don't know, I did notice that that kind of go away. So I don't, I don't stick to being gluten-free. Um, I don't go out of my way to eat it but i don't i don't avoid it either yeah it's tough uh i feel like they figured out the gluten-free pastas you know pretty well like there's some pretty tasty ones that you know i'm so used to it now that i don't notice the difference which ones you do um well the brown

rice ones are the ones that you can find easily at all foods and things like that but there's a company called i'm forgetting it right now it's called like asian foods or i'll think of it and i'll put the link in the show notes but they make some varieties out of like mung beans and adzuki beans and they're really good like they taste fantastic and they're essentially low carb, high protein and they're gluten free. Have you tried the Tolerant brand? Like they have red lentil pasta and black bean pasta. Maybe I have that because I have had black bean pasta. I know this one company that I'm thinking of makes it and red lentil.

I don't know if I've had that. I might have. I do that. They're actually good, right? You think they're going to be horrible. No, actually good no they are good the bread though there's a long way to go to figure out bread i'm sorry but like it's tough right yeah it's tough i'm the same way like i'm not you know celiac or anything like that but all right but i know i feel better when i avoid it but i'm not always perfect in that. So, all right. And then, uh, and then dinner, I mean, there's, it's a difference when you're, when you're the chef

at the team is providing for you versus when you're at home. Yeah. So dinner is usually at home. Um, and I mean, I'll make just rice and beans and avocado like all the time i could literally eat that every day yeah i mean actually i do eat that yeah um i do that sick of it i like it no me too i do that a bunch um and then i'll just get like um an onion zucchini a squash a few different veggies and um sort of saute them and um one thing i like to do is just kind of cook those a little bit and then add some either lentils or quinoa to it and then just pasta sauce and just do it without the pasta and it's pretty good it kind of um i don't know it's kind of like a ratatouille ish like mixture but but, um, I like, I like doing that a lot too. And what do you do for snacks? Um, I do a lot of fruit and like throughout the day I do, uh, carrot, like carrots and hummus a lot. It's just like easy and something i like and um and grape leaves too the like mediterranean food um my like

my stepdad is love was lebanese so i would do like grew up eating that oh wow have you been to lebanon i have not yeah that's good it's i've been high on my list really cool yeah you should go so like detroit toledo area is has a big population yeah big population um and the food there is really good so i grew up eating a lot of that and love grape leaves and hummus and that kind of stuff right so uh it's pretty basic right i think there's this idea that it's shrouded in mystery and that you're concocting crazy stuff that you know people can't relate to but like you're like a bachelor it does it you're not gonna like spend hours in your kitchen making dinner right like you're hungry yeah right so it's pretty simple basic yeah it freaks people

out though they're like i don't i don't know what to cook for you like how what do i make you if you're coming over for dinner right um well it's new it it's different. It is different. Yeah. Um, so two years of doing this, how has it evolved? Like what are some of the misconceptions or mistakes or kind of, you know, dark alleys that you ran down that now you've kind of learned and know better? Like how have you, how has it been refined? Um, the biggest one for me is processed foods. I kind of like, I got into this, into the season the first year I was doing it. And once the season starts, um, like zero free time, it's just like, you have no life basically for the rest of the season. Um, and I started getting, um, a lot of the Amy's products, like just frozen dinners and soups and stuff.

Yeah, stuff like that, which is fine. And like a lot of them are they're actually pretty good, which is why I kept getting them. But just not the right and all the Gardein's like all the stuff. Yeah, it's easy if you want to cook it quick and it tastes good, like kind of vegan-y junk food type stuff. But I started doing that like a little too much and, you know, maybe they're good in a pinch, but just that level of being processed like isn't what I want to eat. Just as far as like the nutritional value and stuff like that. So that was one of the big things for me. And like the, and the bars, like protein bars and snack bars. Yeah that that was one of the big things for me and like the and the bars like protein bars and yeah that was the next next question you know like you know the protein bars

the like what are the supplements that you know that you're currently using or not using and like how has that evolved because that was definitely an evolution for me oh yeah me too um currently I'm currently using protein powder. I'm using the 22-day nutrition one right now. And some vitamins like vitamin B complex and some calcium. I take a few vitamins, chlorella. And that's it right now. Right. Um, and what was it like when you started? When I started, I was taking like a, a pre-workout powder. Um, you know, I found a pretty clean one,

um, without like add, you know, just a bunch of added question marks. So just stuff. Uh, but it, you know, it was like beta alanine and creatine and, um, you know, I don't know, a handful of other things. So I do like a pre-workout, um, and a protein, I do protein bars a lot. Um, and even like some of those pro bar meat, like meal things. Um, and so I did, I did some of that stuff, but, and those things are just like straight sugar and like, I don't know. Yeah. Um, I'll do it. I mean, do you feel like they were helping you or did you like, why did you finally, why did you wean yourself off of that? Or did you like, why did you finally, why did you wean yourself off of that?

Um, yeah, like I felt like the more, um, processed foods I eat, like my body fat goes up and like, it doesn't skyrocket or anything. But for me, like just at my position in my job, like it's, it's an important thing. Like I want to be as low as I can. Um, just cause it's just strength to weight ratio, be as light as you can, as strong as you can. So you can, uh, so I can be as fast as I can. Um, and yeah, I would see it like go up a little bit, the more of those kinds of things I. Right. So you just dumped it yeah and did you notice any performance difference i mean your your body weight no i mean body fat went down yeah body fat went down like the pre-workout like you notice a difference because if you stop doing that you like well if you stop eating creatine yeah there's going to be a size

differential right and the i mean because that. And the caffeine, like if you stop doing that, cause I don't know, a lot of those are like 300 milligrams, like right before you work out. Um, so if you stop doing that, you feel a difference, but, um, I don't know, there's like maybe an adjustment period of a few weeks or I don't even know how long it is, but like now I don't, like, I feel great when I work out without anything. And so, uh, fast forward from your initial kind of improvements in strength and speed, uh, that you noticed in Indianapolis, like what are those numbers look like now? Like, did it plateau out? Are you still getting stronger and faster? Are you kind of where you were then? Or how's it working? Cause you're two years in, it's not like, you know, a big, a big thing that people will

say is, well, you're just, you're just, uh, you know, building off of all this strength and speed that you had when you were eating a different way. Right. Um, but you're two years into this. Yeah. So, um, as your, you know, how do you talk about that? Yeah, I got, I've gotten a little bit, um, a little bit stronger and a little bit faster. Um, which is like small gains in either of those areas is a lot, like once you get to a certain point. Um, so I'm like really happy with

that. But over the past two years two years like even though I've only gotten a little bit stronger um my body has still changed a lot um like I can just tell if I see a picture of myself like I look different and like I had to um like get different size pants and like clothes and stuff like just leaner you mean yeah um especially in my legs um like i can fit into like some more normal size pants now skinny jeans like that was a that was a serious issue for me before like because i'm a 32 waist but i couldn't like i couldn't wear any 32 yeah um so now i can wear some normal clothes like right out of the store which is nice but i've noticed that change right and so heading into this season you just finished this like

mini camp right summer summer uh what is it pre-season camp or whatever yeah it is how's it looking like are you healthy how do you feel what are the coaches telling you like you're gonna have to hit it hard right to earn this spot but yeah are all pistons firing yeah no i like i feel the best i've ever felt um i'm actually really excited about this year too like um you know i'll i think i'll make the team. I'm not, not too worried about it. Um, and part of that just comes from like having some experience and like being able to not worry about it and just focus on like my day to day stuff. Um, but yeah, I mean, I think I'll be on the team and be a big contributor. Um, like, I think it's as good of a situation as i've been in and i feel as good as

i've ever felt so right yeah it's exciting yeah cool uh i wanted to shift gears a little bit and talk about um the importance of of coaches you know you had the good fortune of playing under harbaugh you know legendary coach and i'm interested in what your experience was like playing underneath him, you know, and what distinguishes him or what makes him special and what your experience has been with the coaches that you've had, you know, prior and subsequent to him. Yeah. Um, I mean, I've been extremely lucky with my coaches throughout my life, I guess. Um, I've heard a lot of horror stories about guys with, um, different coaches that are just, um, nightmares for them. But, um, yeah, I mean, start starting in high school. Like I love my coach in high school,

coach mazes, and he did a lot, um, sort of preparing me for everything, I think. You know, he's a pretty powerful, motivational speaker and was good at, you know, I totally bought into everything he said and got sort of learned that mindset of just giving everything and doing everything they say and buying in. So like coach Taylor from Friday night, like positive, but also tough love kind of philosophy. Um, and starting there and then, yeah, coach Harwell, like is, he's a gifted coach. Like he's a, he's a different person, you know, he's, he's a character for sure. Like, um, he's just got this intensity about him. Like he can be like, if you don't know him, he can be hard to kind of just walk up and talk to, but like, he's just an intense person. Um, but as a coach, he, he has a real talent for getting everything out of his players like he will you know he will

rip guys to shreds like in front of everybody and you don't want to be that guy so you're gonna you know you're gonna be on time you're gonna do the right thing you're gonna give everything you have like he he just has that ability turning boys into men yeah and has there been i mean did you go to one of those high schools that was kind of one of those programs that were you know was putting a lot of guys into college programs i mean have there been guys that go on and play in the nfl underneath them or are you a standout in that regard not a lot from high school like um you know as a You know, I was a public school, just kind of average size. And we've had, I think, I think there's been one other player in the NFL, maybe, or no, there's been two now. Another guy a couple years younger than me.

But before that, maybe 10, 15 ago there was there was somebody else um and then um guys go and play for a big college like maybe right once every couple years there's somebody that makes it um to a big program and what was hardball like um i you know it seems like as a player you either love him or hate him. And I loved him. Like, I thought he was just fun to play for. Um, and I mean, he's a, he's a good coach. Like if you're, if you can take like a little bit of that and like you have some thick skin, like he's a fun coach to play for and you're going to win a lot ride you. Oh yeah. Yeah. You have to have some thick skin for sure. And you know, was he like, I'm trying to get at, you know, who your mentors have been. I mean, I was, I'm presuming that they were your football coaches, but maybe they were other people in your life. Like who have been the formative

influences, you know, positive influences and, and you know helping craft your character um no those those coaches definitely were um a big one was our strength coach at stanford um shannon turley he i think he's the best strength coach in the country like um i mean he's awesome like he he he had a big role. You know, we talked about Andrew earlier. He had a big role in turning that program around. He, cause there's rules about when the coaches can be with players in the off season, um, in college. coaches. And I mean, he's the guy that really forms, you know, those high school kids coming in the freshmen into like Stanford men and like football players. And he, you know, he does it in the weight room and stuff, but he really does it mentally. He, he's the same kind of way where he'll, he'll, you know, chew guys out like about anything. And he's the same kind of way where he'll, he'll chew, you know, chew guys out like about anything. And he's the one who teaches everybody like what it means to be detailed and that if you,

you know, if you're running sprints and you miss the line by half a centimeter, that's not okay. Um, and he like, he just has this ability to, especially young guys, when they come in, he just gets in their heads and he's a little like, you know, brain ninja that we call him that can just totally turn them upside down and sort of rebuild them from the ground up. Um, and he's somebody that almost everybody hates their first like year or two there. And then you just kind of realize like, wow, this guy changed my life. he's somebody that almost everybody hates their first like year or two there and then you just kind of realize like wow this guy changed my life and i mean now we're like really close

friends as he is with a lot of the older guys that have graduated um the trick is getting the athlete to take personal responsibility for that though rather than like he's making he's riding me you know you're doing it for him it's the shift of doing it because he's telling me to do it to i'm doing this because i want to be the best yeah and this is what i have to do to do that yeah so he was the one that like showed all of us and showed me that like what it means to be detailed about everything. I mean, if the, you know, if you're looking at your piece of paper with your, you know, workout for the day on it and you forgot to write in the weight for something you did, or you forgot to check a box, um, you know, like

you're not, you're not done with your lift. He's going to like, he's going to chew you out for a minute about why didn't you fill this out and like, you know, read through your whole card. chew you out for a minute about why didn't you fill this out and like, you know, read through your whole card. Um, but that taught me a lot about just having that mindset. Right. And I think that allowed me to apply that to other parts of my life. And how have, how have the coaches sort of measured up at the Colts and, and the dolphins? Like I wish everybody's got their own style and all of that. But, you know, stepping into a massive organization where, you know, the coach is responsible for hundreds of people. Yeah. Like I said, I've been, I mean, I've just been so lucky. So I got to Indy and we had Chuck Pagano there and it was all of our first years there the like the gm uh chuck we got the head coach

and a lot of the a lot of new players too um so he was kind of learning on the fly right clean slate um but like what an outstanding coach and um even better human being Like he's just an awesome person. Um, you know, he can relate to everybody and like genuinely cares about everybody and goes out of his way to have conversations and talk to your mom and talk to your family and stuff. Um, he's a, he's a great guy. And then, and then in Miami, another, another first year coach, another first time head coach adam gaze um has been awesome to work with so far and he it's cool like he's an offensive minded guy which is fun for me like he he has a really um conducive offense for my skill set and it's up tempo and i think it's going to be a lot of fun um Um, but he also, same thing,

like he's a, just a real person who cares about his players. And like, as an example, we've had several, um, retired players that played for him come down to Miami for a few days or for a week or whatever and just hang out and like chime in with advice and you know because they were in whether they were in the same offense with him or whatever it was um that speaks volumes yeah like you don't see that everywhere yeah if the players didn't like them they would never do that yeah yeah um but yeah and and they think the world of him and um most of them are older and they've played for a bunch of coaches and that's where they chose to right to come help out so you're a lucky man yeah what are some of the books that that have been really influential and how you approach your life your career um oh i thought you were gonna

say diet diet well it can be diet i mean that's a big part of it right you know yeah whatever just what's on your mind i'm not trying to grill you one of my like the thrive brent brendan brazier's book yeah that one was awesome for me as far as what to eat. Cause like you said, I didn't have anybody else, like any other NFL players to ask, like, you know, how do you do a plant-based diet? So that was finally a little bit more of, um, a little bit more detailed, like how, maybe how much of this you should eat or how much of that and when, when you should eat it. Cause those are kind of the things that I was missing and curious about. Um, but that was really good to finally have some. Yeah. I mean, that's a great book. Brendan breaks it down, you know, in a very

easy to understand and practical way. Like this is how you do it. You know, it's like a manual of like, okay, I'm an athlete and I want to try this plant-based thing out uh but i have all kinds of questions and he basically walks you through it and gives you a manual for how to do it i mean it's really helpful not in that way um a couple more like the i think it's called finding superman maybe um it has to do with like getting in that flow state. Oh, Stephen Kotler. Yeah. Yeah. And is that what it's called?

Becoming Superman? Yeah. I don't know exactly. I know what you mean though. So like it talks a lot about extreme athletes and like getting into that flow state. And I hadn't like, that was kind of my first time hearing about that and being able to relate to it. Do you have a meditation practice? Is that and being able to relate to it. Like you have a, I mean, do you have a meditation practice? Is that part of you do? Cool. Yeah. What does that

look like? Um, I'm kind of new to it. I've been using, um, an app called headspace and getting into that. And also she listened to my podcast with Andy. No, I had Andy on. Yeah. Yeah. Back in the archives. I haven't heard that one. Yeah. Um, so in Miami we, we've got a, um, like sports psychologist, I guess you'd call them,

um, helping out. And that's the first experience I've had talking to any type of figure like that, like therapist, psychologist, anything. And that totally like changed a lot, like my mindset a lot for me. Um, and a lot of what he was teaching was sort of restructured meditation techniques, um, sort of diaphragmatic breathing and visualization and things like that um but just the structure he has is really cool and i i'm really excited to do more of it and get better at it and i think it's gonna help me a lot i think the mental side of it especially once you reach a certain point of developing like physically and stuff which i

kind of have like mentally that's huge that's that's the final frontier right absolutely you have your shit together up top man that's going to make all the difference so talking to him has made a big difference for me um do you know meditating do you know michael gervais he's the guy who works with the seahawks oh i've heard of him yeah i heard your podcast your podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's, I mean, he's doing amazing work. Yeah. So that's what we have is we have a guy like that. And, um, so between that and like getting into meditation, um, and it's hard for me, like, you know, there's, everyone thinks they're the outlier and that it's hard. It's hard for me. Like, you don't understand. It's hard for me,'s hard it's hard for me like you don't understand it's hard for me dude it's hard for everybody you know there's the one i've been doing like a um there's different

like in the app there's different packages or whatever and doing this one about focus and you kind of go through different parts of your body like you go from your feet to your stomach to whatever and you just go back and forth across these points on that one and yeah so the first i don't know like eight times i did it i couldn't go up and down through my body twice before i'm like off thinking about something else well of course because you're a human being yeah you know it's not about that not happening it's just about getting better slowly yeah and then like a minute and a half later you realize like oh yeah i'm supposed to like i know what am i i'm somewhere else then there's the opportunity for not judging yourself for that right so every little thing that comes up is just another little mini exercise

within the meditation yeah and for me like i learned i kind of realized that yoga has been my way of meditating for a lot for a long time without even knowing it um and again back to um shannon turley at stanford he had everybody start doing some yoga and like you know i don't think he was really doing it for mental purposes i think it was more like just functional movement and flexibility. Um, but it just works that way anyway, but that's how I got into it. And then I started doing it on my own and all the time. Um, and the more you do it and like doing it in like real classes and stuff, you start to realize it's not about, or like it's about different things. It's not just stretching. Like, cause that's why I was doing it. Like I just wanted to get, I just wanted to

get more flexible. Yeah. I mean, it works on all those levels. Like that's the entry point level. Like I wish I was, I wish I had been doing yoga consistently when I was swimming. I think it would have made me way better at what I was doing. Um, but the real point of yoga, the purpose of yoga is to take you through the, all of the asanas, all of the poses, all of the physical exertion and the balance and all of that is to get your mind to turn off. It's the same thing in meditation. Like you're doing, it's an exercise to get you to that still point so that when you're done and you're in Shavasana or laying down for the meditation part, you're primed for it. And that's like where the work is, you know,

and that's where the most gain and benefit is realized. Right. So when we're doing it, you know, as a football team in college, you know, we're... That's amazing. We're doing that as a team. I can't imagine there are that many college teams doing yoga as a team. But we're, you know, these stiff guys that are holding their breath trying to do something. And then finally

down the road i'm doing some classes and listening to the you know the instructor and starting to pay more attention to breathing and that's when i started to really sort of realize the full potential of it but you're a tinkerer man yeah you're a product you're a product designer of yourself yeah that's a good way i appreciate that you know it's like you're not afraid to try these new things like i mean listen you know i think it takes a huge amount of courage it takes you know brass balls to be in the nfl and like break rank and do something completely different than everyone's doing. The risk is so high, right? It's just easy to just, well, if, as long as I'm eating the way everyone else is eating, you can't begrudge me of that. Right. Yeah. But to say, I'm going to do

this thing that not only is it different, there's going to be a lot of people telling me I'm crazy or it's the wrong thing to do and to do it anyway, when, you know, literally your career is on the line. Like that's, that's not a small thing, you know? So it's pretty cool that you've stuck with it and that you're, you know, realizing gains and, and that the inquiry, um, doesn't end there. Like it continues. It's like, okay, what can I do mentally? What can I do with my mindfulness? What can I do? You know, how can I, I'm sure you've looked at sleep, you know, all these sorts of things that are kind of obvious and yet completely underappreciated and under addressed with athletes. to do like make a change like that um but i think it was a little easier for me just being in the such an underdog like role that i was and is that made did that make you feel like well i don't have anything to lose well it made me feel like i want to look for everything i can look for to give me

an edge like if i can you know if i learn more about sleep and if I can sleep better than everybody else and be that much better and then add that with having that much better of a diet and then add that with, you know, whatever else, um, that's kind of where I was just looking for like everything I can do because like, you know, I know where I want to get to and like, I'm not going to get there if I don't do everything I can. Right. So for the person who's listening out there who maybe has a goal, maybe it's athletic, maybe it's professional, whatever it is, you know, what kind of advice, what's the kind of advice that you give? I mean, you're, you're a scrapper, right? Like, you know, I would imagine your advice is something like, you gotta do the

work, man. Like, stop messing around. Yeah. I'll, um, I'll share this email with you and, um, I might like post it to my website too. I think just for people to look at, but, cause that's kind of the question I answered. Um, but I think it's about, like I talk about for me, it was just outworking everybody. But not like just at football, not just in the weight room, you know, that, that'll get you stronger and faster, which is great. But outworking them at everything, like investing in yourself. So putting in the time to learn about how to like, how to actually set goals in a structure that is going to work and have a real outcome. Um, how to manage your time better, how to sleep better. Um, just any way that you, that might help you like,

look at all those different ways and learn about it so that you can invest in yourself and um and just work at it and you know do as much as you can in each of those areas and that's what i was you know i've been trying to do and i'm still trying to do every day is just you know do those you know I'm trying to do those things better than everybody else, at least in my jobs, because it's a competition every day, you know? Yeah, of course. I mean, it's not, you know, everything you just said is, it's basic stuff, right? And there's this gap between kind of intellectually understanding that and the actual practice of it. Like, yeah, I know I should look at how I'm using my time. You know, I probably shouldn't be on Facebook for two hours or whatever, but people just really struggle with changing those habits. And it's a lot easier to say, like, I'm sitting here saying

this and it sounds like, you know, all I do is, you know, machine. Yeah. That's not the case. Like, you know, it's easy to sit here and say that, like, there are days where I wish I had gotten a lot more done or, um, you know, I'm just like everybody else wish, you know, wishing I had been better at that or whatever. But, um, at least having those, having an idea of those things and like, um, sort of pursuing that goal of improving in those. So what do you, like when you, when you wake up on one of those days where you just don't feel like it, like how, you know, what are some of the tools that you use to, you know, get yourself motivated or up out of bed and after it? Well, doing like I do the meditation and yoga almost every morning.

the meditation and yoga almost every morning. And that, I think that does a lot as far as you are just in a good mental space and you, you're a lot more prepared to go out and attack your day. Um, and so that was kind of a kind of cool story was, um, so our sports psychologist with the dolphins, um, Rick Perea, one of the first times I met him, I was getting ready for practice. This was just a few weeks ago. And I'm in the weight room trying to warm up and, um, you know, activating muscles is like, for those who don't know, like, um, if certain muscles, like sometimes those who don't know like um if certain muscles like sometimes they're not working quite right and that's how you strain a different muscle it sort of it like compensates for like if your glute muscles aren't firing the way they're supposed to like that's how you're gonna hurt a hamstring or something like that so getting everything um warmed up and working

the right way is important before practice. So I'm in there doing that, just trying to get ready. And he's a like totally outspoken, outgoing guy, right? Just has no filter, has no like shyness or like embarrassment about anything. So he's just walking around kind of like yelling at guys like, what's up, what's up, man. And like, you know, he'll start freestyling and rapping in front of you and just kind of like, yeah, it does his own thing. Um, and so he like looks over, you know, he comes over to me and he's like, how's it going? And he like getting, you know,

getting your body activated. And I'm like, yep. You know, I had just finished. I'm like, yep, I'm all ready. So so and I'm like starting to walk out and he's like what about your mind you get your mind activated and I kind of like stopped and I was like um I don't know like what does that mean it's like did you like you got to get your mind activated like you know that's just as important as your body you can't go out and practice if you're not mentally in the right space um so that was like the first conversation i even had with him did like didn't know anything about him um and so he like took me through a little like 30 second if that just kind of like a little visualization yeah it was just kind of like

i mean it wasn't even that he was just like all right repeat after me like i love my life i love my family i love playing football for the miami you know just like it took like 10 seconds and he's like all right now you're ready to go i'm like i was like all right but um you know i don't know as soon as i got in the field i don't know that i was paying attention to it anymore but afterwards i was thinking about it and like i had never even thought about mentally like sort of preparing like that. Um, or like mentally activating my brain for a practice or a workout. Um, but it's cool. Right. It's like, it's just as important as anything else. Right. So if you made that a habit. Yeah. And, and what are the other kind of

techniques that he has you guys doing? Um, I don't know. I think it's a little different for everybody. Um, just based on his, his interactions with them. And, um, but I do like some breathing stuff and some visualization, um, in the morning and at night. And he, is there like a technique to the breathe like what kind of breathing technique it's like with just diaphragm like um so isolating it just to your diaphragm um which gets like 30 percent more oxygen to your brain and just wakes you know wakes everything up and gets you in a good mental place to to do everything and he demonstrated it for me like the breathing and then the visualization and he was talking out loud while he was doing it and it was pretty powerful like he you know he was in a game you know a football game in the middle of the third quarter about to sack the court you know went like

talk super detail talking yeah Yeah. Crazy detail. And like, um, and then he like had me, had me do my own, like back to him and it was really cool. Like, so that's something I do the breathing and that, um, in the morning and at night, like visual, like taking a scenario and visualizing a positive result. And it doesn't have to be football. It can be whatever, like maybe I just want to have a productive day. I'm like, I'm going to, you know, get all these errands done or get this built or whatever, you know, whatever it is. Right.

Get this built. Are you product designing some stuff right now? I don't know. Like a bookshelf or not. Right. Yeah. Cool. Well, we got to wrap it up here in a little bit.

But one of the final things I wanted to talk to you about is, you know, the cat's out of the bag now. You're a public figure in the, you know, vegan plant-based community as an athlete. And, you know, the articles are kind of coming out and people know, you know, that you're this guy now. And that's kind of a new, you know, relatively new kind of thing for you. Yeah. So, you know, how do you, you know, how do you carry that? Like, how do you, you know, what is your perspective on sort of for better or worse, you know, becoming an ambassador of, of like a movement? Yeah. Um, yeah, it is new. And just

even being, um, sort of open to the public is new. Like I didn't have, I've never had a Facebook. I didn't have a Twitter until a couple of years ago. I didn't, you know, Snapchat, same thing. Um, I'm just now kind of getting a Instagram and my website going. Um, so I've always just been kind of like private and like, you know, I don't want to have my life open to everybody to view. Um, but that's also another, that's an interesting subject in and of itself, right? You being kind of a private person and yet in this age of, you know, social media and, and your profession being yourself as the product, you have to be your own sort of CEO and marketing, you know, officer because your public profile yeah actually informs your career and i don't there is some there's a rationale you sort of have to do it right yeah

but i don't know that i would have um if it weren't for like this stuff like the vegan stuff just because it's something that i really care about. And, um, like a lot, a big part of me feels, I don't know what the word is, but kind of upset that, you know, I went 18, 20 years of my life without knowing any of this stuff. Like, um, especially a lot of the health stuff with heart disease and cancer and things like that. Like, um, like, why didn't I know that? Like, why don't people know that? And, um, so yeah, like it's, that's something I want to like tell people about. And that's something that makes me want to like, you know, okay, I'll, you know, you

can watch me on Snapchat, you you know and follow me every day and um just kind of spreading that information to people is something that uh is important to me right interesting so you're cool with kind of flying the flag a little bit yeah yeah yeah and how has you know your entry point into this much like myself was health. Like, you know, I want to feel better. I want to perform better. But, you know, as you walk this path, you know, your, you know, your, your, your vision kind of becomes expanded in other areas. So, you know, how has this impacted your perspective on, you know, issues related to environmentalism and, you know, the ethical implications of animal agriculture and all of that.

Yeah. I mean, the same way, like when you, for me eating this diet and feeling better than I ever have, um, it like, to me, it's like the best way to eat. Right. So then you start to look at okay why do we why do we have to like keep all these animals in these conditions and like kill them in that way if we if we don't need to why do we need to tear down all the rainforests and outfish all the oceans if we don't actually need to it's like impossible to not sort of come to those conclusions and be like we don't like you know you don't actually need to, it's like impossible to not sort of come to those conclusions and be like, we don't like, you know, you don't need, we don't need to do any of those things. Um, so yeah, I, you know, that's like, like you said, I got into it totally for health reasons and

performance, but, and I haven't become like outspoken about animal rights um or the environment but it's definitely something i like feel and agree with like um the the um environment documentary cowspiracy like i don't know how you watch that and don't at least rethink some things um so i don't know especially when you add those three sort of pillars together like the health aspect the environment and the like animal rights it's just over like overwhelming to me. It's like this trifecta. Yeah. I mean, that's been, you know, my experience. And that journey continues to, you know, evolve and grow.

But I think it's really cool that you're in this place now where you want to talk about it and you want to be an advocate. You know, it's a beautiful thing. You should, man. You know, it's like look you know I'm just I'm a skinny runner guy you know what I mean but and I can carry a certain vibration and level of influence but it's very different and I've said this before whenever I have you know athletes of your caliber on the show it's very different when you're a guy who makes his living off of being as strong and as fast and as agile and as forceful, you know, your whole career is built on brute force and strength and speed. These are very masculine ideals and playing in the NFL carries a certain, you know, cachet that allows you to, you know, get a podium and have people listen to you. And the fact that you're taking that

seriously and grabbing that opportunity and saying, I can use this for good. Let me talk about these things is a really cool thing. Yeah. And one of the things, um, I'm working on now is, um, I want to start finding, like just visiting, um, like younger kids, like high schools and stuff. Um, and talking to either their sports teams or just the student body as a whole, just kind of about my experience and some of the things I've learned. Um, but that's something I'm working on is reaching out to that younger crowd. And, um, yeah. So if anybody out there wants to bring me to their high school, you know, I just did that with calling up radio. I was like any principals out there or PE teacher, you know, whatever, like get in touch with you,

man. Yeah, you should, that'd be great. It'd be really cool. I mean, the students would be so stoked. I mean, just even if you did it around Miami initially, just in your own local community, there's got to be tons of opportunity for that. So awesome, man. Well, if people are tuning in and they have no idea who I am and they're only listening because they're Dolphins fans or Colts fans

wanting to hear Griff talk and this whole like plant-based thing is blowing their mind, you know, a good place to start, as Griff said is uh the documentary forks over knives the documentary cowspiracy what are some of the other resources that you kind of refer people to who want to dip their toe in this the i mean the thrive book is great um uh food matters that's i think that's on netflix too food matters is on netflix food inc i mean there's a whole you know yeah there's a ton of them series of related types of documentaries

i mean they can just hop on your website and look at yeah i'll put in the show notes i'll put a like kind of a you know a bunch of links for people in case people are new and they're just you know like i said they're they're tuning into this show for the first time because of you, which would be really cool. So, all right, man, I think we did it. All right. How do you feel? Good. It was good, right? Yeah. Have you done a podcast before? No. First podcast. First one. Awesome, dude. Yeah. I love it. Uh, it was great. Really inspiring. And, you know, what you're doing is important and it's cool. And I can't wait to see, you know, how the season unfolds for you, man.

I'll be tuning in for sure and watching with keen interest. Cool. And I'm going to be down in Miami in November. Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Come to a game? For that seed thing. If there's a game around, I'd love to. Nice.

Yeah, for sure. We're coming to L.A. this year too. Oh, you are?, yeah, yeah. Come to a game. For that seed thing. If there's a game around, I'd love to. Nice. Yeah, for sure. We're coming to LA this year, too. Oh, you are? Yeah. All right. Well, I definitely want to go check that out. Yeah, gotcha. Cool.

All right. So if you're digging on Griff, the best way to connect with him, I would say Snapchat right now. That's where your game's happening, right? Yeah, Twitter and Snapchat. Either one. So G Whalen 17 on snapchat griff whalen on twitter the website griff whalen.com yeah all those good places and uh thanks a lot man yeah

thanks for having me great cool come back uh and we could talk more later yeah love to all right peace plants all right i hope you guys enjoyed that. He's a good guy, right? Hopefully, Griff has given you more than a few things to think about, particularly when it comes to performance nutrition, the power of work ethic, and, of course, the primacy of self-belief.

I'm definitely inspired by his example, and, of course, I hope you guys are as well. Again, give him a shout-out on Twitter, at Griff Whalen, G-R-I-F-F-W-H-A-L-E-N, and let him know you're rooting for him. If you enjoyed the show and you want to support it, there's a couple simple free ways to do just that. The first thing is you can share the show on social media like Facebook and Twitter. It sounds obvious, sounds kind of silly, but it's actually really important in helping the show reach new people.

Super grateful when you guys do that. Second, give the show a rating and a review on iTunes. That really helps us out with the algorithm and boosts visibility. And finally, making a habit of always clicking through the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases is very helpful. It doesn't cost you anything extra,

but Amazon commissions us, and it's a huge help. So that's it. I appreciate it. Also, again, don't forget to sign up for my newsletter. In addition to the weekly podcast updates that I've always been sending out, I just launched this new weekly email that I'm calling Roll Call. I know that sounds kind of cheesy, but it has a ring to it as well, I think. Don't you think? In any event, it's a short weekly blast of instructive recommendations and resources, just a few things that I've discovered, enjoyed, and found helpful. And it's another simple way for me to give back and be of greater service to you guys. I'm never going to spam you ever, ever, ever.

So if it sounds like something you're interested in, then you can sign up for it at richroll.com. What else? Go to richroll.com. What else? Go to richroll.com for all your Plant Power merch and swag needs. I got signed copies of Finding Ultra and the Plant Power Way. I got cool t-shirts, tech tees. We got sticker packs, all kinds of cool stuff. I want to thank everybody who helped put on the show today. Jason Camiolo for audio engineering and production.

Sean Patterson for all his graphics. He does a great job on that. Chris Swan, who assists on the production, does all the show notes, and really does a great job. Thank you, Chris. And theme music by Analema. Also, interstitial music by Analema today as well.

You can check them out on SoundCloud. Just go to soundcloud.com, and in the search window, type in A-N-A and then new word L-E-I-M-M-A. And you'll find their band page there. That's my boy's band. In any event, thanks for all the support, you guys. I've got a final thought for you.

Griff is a guy who recognized early that he just wasn't graced with all the God-given athletic prowess that would be required for him to just waltz into the NFL. And not only did he believe in himself and work his butt off to get there, he studied his weaknesses. And he went the extra mile to identify areas that he could exploit to gain an advantage and bridge that talent gap. So my question for you is this, what are you overlooking in your life that could provide the foundation for a quantum leap forward with just a little focused attention? What weaknesses are you ignoring? And what could you do that your colleagues or your co-workers or your competitors are

not doing that would allow you to achieve that goal that you seek? So why don't you chew on that, and I'll see you guys again soon. Peace. Plants. Thank you.