The Rich Roll Podcast - We Are Water: Erin Brockovich On Pollutants, Politics & People Power

Episode Date: September 21, 2020

Over 40,000 chemicals currently find their way into a litany of consumer products. Although many are toxic, less than 1% have been tested for human safety. Nonetheless, great quantities can still be found in our drinking water. How is this possible? Shouldn’t clean water be a fundamental right? These questions are both fair and important. Unfortunately, trusted regulatory bodies like the EPA often fail to adequately protect us. Science is often manipulated by companies that put profit over public health. And thus, industry pollution continues unsupervised -- and the consumer protection laws we do have in place remain unenforced. To better understand this reality -- how we got here and where to go from here -- I sat down with one of the most famous names in environmental activism. Meet the the singular and eminent Erin Brockovich. Best known as the legal file clerk who battled PG&E over polluted water in the town of Hinckley, CA, Ms. Brockovich was instrumental in architecting a case that resulted in the largest settlement ever paid in a direct-action lawsuit in U.S. history. It’s a story that ended up on the big screen. Garnered Julia Roberts an Oscar for her portrayal of Erin under the direction of the great Steven Soderberg. And turned the name Erin Brockovich into not only a household name, but a verb. Today Erin delivers a master class on water, with one resounding takeaway: the problem is our's to solve. Simply put, we cannot rely on corporations or the government to protect us. An admittedly disheartening realization, it's also empowering -- a call to citizen activism to forge the better world we deserve. It's a theme Ms. Brockovich explores in her new book, Superman's Not Coming (and recently launched podcast of the same name), which both take a brutally honest look at how mismanagement, chemical spills, mishandling of toxic waste and sludge, and even fake studies have created the perfect storm in terms of damaging water systems in the United States. The result is making us sick. And destroying the environment along the way. This is a conversation about the outdated policies that perpetuate this pollution cycle, and the evil-overlord-level of deception that is happening in the corporations and government bodies we blindly trust. We discuss the regulatory landscape of clean water. How what most consider a human right has become politicized and weaponized. How to better educate yourself about your own water supply. And the actions to undertake in the event of an issue. In addition, we explore Erin’s upbringing. Her struggles with dyslexia. The experiences and mentors that fuel her perseverance. The case that brought her fame. And the vital work she has done since. Brimming with unexpected optimism, I think you will find Erin’s message a welcome break from the relentless apocalyptic doom presented by the 24-hour news cycle. A mighty, whip-smart and imposing force of nature, for many years I've deeply admired and respected Ms. Brockovich from afar. This conversation was an honor. And a powerful reminder of the indelible influence of the individual to create positive change and awaken a movement.  The visually inclined can watch our exchange on YouTube. And as always, the podcast streams wild and free on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. My this one awaken you to action. Peace + Plants, Rich

We are water. We are sustained by water. Do not think that we might not have water, especially if we keep going at this rate and let's get serious about climate change. We've got to stop the argument. I don't care what side of the aisle you're on. This is all of our issues. We need to work together. We need to be informed. We need to be prepared. And there are solutions to these issues. And we, as a consumer, cannot take anything for granted anymore. And I do believe that we, the people, have an absolute obligation to ourselves and to our family and to our communities to make it our job to find out and be informed and to act and to find your own courage and not be afraid to step up and get

involved. That's Erin Brockovich, and this is episode 547 of the Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast. For those of you who listen to my podcast with Greg Renfrew, the founder and CEO of Beauty Counter, you're already aware that there's about 40,000 chemicals that currently find their way into a litany of consumer products, less than 1% of which have been tested for human safety. Many of these chemicals are toxic and more often than most suspect, even show up in our drinking water. How is this possible? Shouldn't clean water be a fundamental right? Well, these are fair and

important questions. Unfortunately, regulatory bodies like the EPA don't always do what we expect them to. And science is all too often manipulated by companies that put profit over public health. often manipulated by companies that put profit over public health. Therefore, industry pollution continues unsupervised, and the laws we do have in place remain unenforced. To better understand all of this, I sat down with the one, the only, Aaron Brockovich, one of, if not the most famous names in environmental activism. In the odd event that you've never before heard of this incredible woman,

Ms. Brockovich is best known as the legal file clerk who battled PG&E over polluted water in the town of Hinkley, California. And that case resulted in the largest settlement ever paid in a direct action lawsuit in U.S. history. It's a story that ended up on the big screen, garnered Julia Roberts an Oscar for her portrayal of Aaron under the direction of Steven Soderbergh, one of cinema's greatest filmmakers. And it turned the name Aaron Brockovich into not only a household name, but a verb. into not only a household name, but a verb. Unfortunately, America's waters didn't cease to be polluted after the closing credits of the film. In fact, they've only gotten worse,

a fact that should leave all of us deeply concerned and motivated to act. Aaron is here to walk us through this quagmire and how it can be part of much needed change. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety.

And it all began with treatment and experience that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care, especially because, unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices. It's a real problem,

a problem I'm now happy and proud to share has been solved by the people at recovery.com who created an online support portal designed to guide, to support, and empower you to find the ideal level of care tailored to your personal needs. They've partnered with the best global behavioral health providers to cover the full spectrum of behavioral health disorders, including substance use disorders, depression, anxiety, eating disorders, gambling addictions, and more. Navigating their site is simple. Search by insurance coverage, location, treatment type, you name it.

Plus, you can read reviews from former patients to help you decide. Whether you're a busy exec, a parent of a struggling teen, or battling addiction yourself, I feel you. I empathize with you. I really do. And they have treatment options for you. Life empathize with you. I really do. And they have treatment options for you. Life in recovery is wonderful, and recovery.com is your partner in starting that journey. When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery.

To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. Okay, back to Aaron. So post Hinckley and that crazy, incredible case, Aaron would go on to build this incredible career as a key player in many, many additional high-profile cases, which generally involved battling gigantic corporate entities over environmental pollution and other sundry matters of public safety malfeasance. Her main takeaway, which is both the subject of her new book, Superman's Not Coming, and the focus of today's conversation is that we simply just can't rely

on corporations or the government to protect us, to do the right thing. And instead, it really is on us. But that this realization, which is admittedly a little bit upsetting is ultimately and actually empowering this like beautiful call to citizen activism to forge the better world that we deserve. I'm still kind of in shock that I actually met this amazing, powerful woman. She's just awesome, full of energy and enthusiasm, everything you'd expect and more. And today, predictably, Aaron brings the heat. This is a brutally honest conversation about how agencies are putting profits over citizen health, how mismanagement and unregulated chemicals in our tap water are not only making us sick, but also destroying the environment. It's an overview of outdated policies perpetuating this

pollution cycle in the first place and the evil overlord level deception that is happening in the corporations and government bodies that we blindly trust. Furthermore, it's a conversation about the regulatory landscape of clean water and how what most consider a human right has become politicized and weaponized. It's about how the EPA has failed us, why there is still such a strong influx of toxic chemicals in so many municipal water supplies, how you can become educated about your own water supply and what you can do in the event of an issue.

We also talk about Erin's upbringing, her struggles with dyslexia, and the experiences and mentors that led her to uphold an extraordinary amount of perseverance over the course of her life. Not to mention what it was like battling PG&E in the case that brought her to fame and the vital work she has done since. in the case that brought her to fame and the vital work she has done since. I think you're gonna find Erin's unbridled optimism and energy a warm welcome from the apocalyptic doom that we're all kind of confronting right now.

She is a real pistol and a reminder and an example of the indelible influence of the individual to create positive change and awaken a movement. It was a true honor to talk to somebody I've deeply admired and respected from afar for many, many years. And it's with that that I give you the mighty, the whip smart, the imposing force of nature

that is Aaron Brockovich. All right, Aaron Brockovich is in the house. I am thrilled. I'm so excited. Thank you for doing this. Oh my gosh, I'm really glad to be here. I don't think I knew we were such close neighbors. I didn't know that either. I would have had you on forever ago had I known you lived like down the street from me. Yeah, literally down the street. And you've been here forever. Forever I know. God, I'm getting every year I go. Well, I also didn't know that Masry's office was in Thousand Oaks. Yes, I know. Corsa Avenue. So after the movie came out, he came out that way and bought the building.

You know, Ed has since passed on. They've now sold the building. So the whole firm and all of that is gone. But no, we're locals. I mean, Ed used to be mayor. I didn't know that. Yes. But no, we're locals. I mean, Ed used to be mayor. I didn't know that. Yes. There's so much to learn.

I was talking- He was with Claudia de la Pena. I believe that she's been mayor. I mean, so he started the whole Save the Open Space and oh my gosh, Ed was the original. Yeah, he passed on a couple of years ago. Yeah, Ed died in 2005. What a loss. It was a couple of years ago. Yeah, Ed died in 2005. What a loss.

It was a great guy. Yeah. I was with him when he died. I was holding his hand, and his wife and son were there. And, you know, Ed had a huge heart, smart guy, just always jumped in to help. I'm missing every day. I can imagine. I mean, what a story. It's just, it's incredible.

He was the best friend I think I've really ever had. Yeah. I mean, the two of you together and what you were able to create and set in motion is so epic. I wish he was here today to see everything. I mean, you know, Ed could always make a joke. He was fun. He'd make you laugh. He could be lighthearted, but serious. He just was optimistic. He wasn't worried things would always turn out. And I could just share stories with you for days. The movie made him seem pretty crusty. Is that accurate? Absolutely. Well, he had an extremely dry sense of humor. and you know he he always made fun of himself i mean oftentimes you know he'd show up in his slippers and and we'd be at a you know community town hall

and he'd say you know my mom may not have birthed the most handsome but you know she he would always make some joke about himself self-deprecating yeah yeah which was fun cool so yeah he was cut you know he could you know know, he could, you know, I think he definitely always got a kick out of me because I would often challenge him. Yeah, well, I mean, he'd never seen anything like you before. I'm like, what the F, Ed? He's like, what?

Who talks to me that way? So I was talking to my friend, Osher Gunsberg, who interviewed you in Australia last year. I don't know if you remember. I do, absolutely. And I went and listened to that. Absolutely. He's the best. He is. And I love Australia. Yeah, it's the best. I spent the whole month of December there this past year. Oh my gosh. Where'd you go? In Bondi and then Byron Bay. Yep. Oh, Byron Bay is the best.

I was ready to stay. Byron on the Byron. You do a lot of stuff there. All the time. You go there a lot, right? I was supposed to be there right now. I cry because I'm not there. I really do enjoy the country. I enjoy the people.

I've been all over. To this day, when I get my hands on a koala, I sob like a baby. It's ridiculous. But the people are wonderful. They are. And I do remember that interview very much. He's a pro. He is a pro.

But what he did at the beginning of the interview, I'm sure you remember, he put water in front of you that was tap water, right? And he's like, oh my God. And so I brought water out, but this is purified water. It's all good. It's safe. I think it's safe. I don't know. You be the judge, I suppose. Well, you know, it's interesting we even start up that way.

I've decided every single day, my book is out. Superman's not coming. I have a copy for you in the car. Oh, thank you. I've been listening to it on audio. I'm really enjoying it. Oh, have you? Oh, my gosh.

You know, I don't really have like an ego. I'll come into a situation and I'm usually like, okay, I'm not sure. Let me check this out. Doing my audio for my book, piece of cake. Yeah. No. Wow. There was days after I got done doing the audio on that book and working on pronunciations.

It's one thing when you read it and you say it in your head. Then when you say it out loud, they're like, no, you made an S-T. You got to get that right. Do the pronunciation again. I almost thought, am I illiterate? What am I talking about? I'm like, my eyes were frying out of my head. I didn't like the sound of my voice. It's exhausting. I've done it myself. And it all gets up in your head. And then you're like sound of my voice. It's exhausting. I've done it myself and you get, it all gets up in your head and then you're like, why can't I talk? Right. I've been saying perfluorooctanoic acid forever. And he goes, but actually you've been

pronouncing it wrong. I'm like, what? I was like, there's no way. So I'm glad you're listening to it on audio. Yeah, I'm enjoying it. I'm enjoying it. And I love the title, Superman's Not Coming. I mean, it encapsulates kind of your whole thing, which is this idea that everything's kind of apocalyptic and no one's coming to help us, and yet also hopeful that in this destruction, we can find a way to be self-empowered. And those two ideas kind of crashing into each other really kind of defined your whole path and your whole career. It has. And, you know, going back to the water here that you brought in, which, you know, it's always that moment somebody brings you water. You're looking at it skeptically. Yeah. You know, fortunately, I always brought my own little drink down there. But water is kind of a metaphor because we are water. And what I've learned in these communities is once you know water and understand water

and have that connection with the environment again, you actually find yourself. And I do think because there's been such crisis with water, we've actually moved away from this and we've in a way lost ourselves. And I think we're waking up again and finding ourselves and finding our voice and things that do matter, like the water, like the air, like the environment, like our health. And I don't know if for a long time we got comfortable or we bought the illusion or we took things for granted or we just got complacent. But what gives me hope is the fact that I think we're waking up to a lot of issues that have existed for a long time,

and it's just spilling over. It's devastating the more that you learn about how so much is mishandled and bungled by these institutions, these regulatory bodies, these corporations in which we invest some level of public trust to take care of us. Like maybe Superman's not coming, but shouldn't the government of one of the most powerful, prosperous nations on earth make sure that we have clean drinking water? And to discover that that is very much not the case

is incredibly disheartening. Like it's, and it's scary. And I think to read that now in this heightened moment that we're all experiencing, it's even more disappointing given that we're seeing kind of structures failing all over the place or public distrust in structures starting to kind of increase.

Like it's not just water. We're looking with a keener eye at all kinds of institutions at the moment. And there is a public groundswell of not just distrust but also activism that we're seeing. So I guess in that you can glean the sliver of hope. Absolutely. You know, the distrust has been there for a long time. I'm a foot soldier, you know. So to put this, I don't know, in some context, I began my work in Hinkley. I just turned 31. I'm now 60 with four grandchildren. And the idea that when I did

Hinkley, everyone thought that was a one-off. And I found out it's the entire U.S., if not global, our groundwater issues, our contamination. And through that process, I've learned where the system failed, whether it was designed to fail, whether it just got, you know, hijacked, if you will. There's all kinds of ways to move information around, the politics that get involved. I've been the bearer of bad news to many communities, but we do share with you in the book, and we show these communities that when the people know, and oftentimes they, a state, a water board, a municipality, federal oversight, something's got your back that it's been missing because they're always going, how did we get here? And in the book, we share with you communities that take the information, knowledge is power. I will tell you 10 times out of 10,

it's a pissed off mom. And they do great things. They make it their business. They make it their job. They get involved. They inform their neighbors. They become one and then five and then 10 and then 50 and then 100 and then 200.

They get into city council right in their own backyard. And they affect change, whether they get let out of the water, whether they run for office, they win, they get refrandums on the ballots. Hannibal, Missouri is a perfect example. They had let as bad as Flint. But the moms fixed that problem and they ran for city council and they won. Yeah, and they got let out of the water. It's an amazing story.

What is it about moms? Is it that like protective instinct that they have where they're keenly aware sense of when something's not right and their willingness to speak up about it? Like why moms? You know, I've watched, it's amazing. Like I'll never forget when my daughter, Elizabeth,

who lives here in Thousand Oaks and has three kids, she was a little girl. And our dog, Gabriella, had puppies. And, oh, Elizabeth, you know, got to be involved. But as soon as all the puppies were born, she went back in. Gabriella snarled and snapped at her. And she's like, what is that? And I said, that's mama bear. This is her turf now and protection. That sense kicks in. I watched the same thing happen with Elizabeth when she had her children. And we have a very protective nature, especially we feel hard, we love hard, we nurture hard, we're mothers, we're protective. And they oftentimes activate when their child or a family member or a friend's child is harmed and they worry about what will happen to their health, or they have cancer or a disease, or they make the association, or they find out it was water or an air contamination or a medical device gone bad, they rally and they do it strong and they follow through.

They don't let things go. So if they're in it, they're going to be in it to finish it. So moms are great. Yeah. When you look at what's going on in Hinkley now, like Hinkley still has problems, right, with their water? Hinkley's gone. So the town has disappeared. Everybody left, right?

PG&E bottomed out this time. But they still haven't really cleaned it up. No, they're under about a 100-year cleanup order. God. PG&E is the worst example of a company that I've monitored and been against for 20 years. And they could be doing things differently. And we see this. I think there's a big breakout moment right now

where our policies and our infrastructures and our laws are outdated. Think about this. And we're still working on that. It's not going to take us forward. And PG&E has been a perfect example. From Hinkley, where I started, to the Kettleman case, both of these communities settled between $333 and $335 million. Defense costs, you're looking 50, 100 million on each. Cleanup costs

on their corporate books for the next 100 years, hundreds of millions of dollars. We're talking $2 billion right there. You just follow them up the line and their infrastructure is so distraught and under such stress that they never take profits in reinvesting in infrastructure, safety, and people first. They want to do the money first. They want to do it cheap, and they want to be deceptive. Now they blow up san bruno i mean my gosh let's talk another 50 million on their books we all saw what happened to paradise i was involved up there the northern california fires all because a company over a 20-year period doesn't want to reinvest in its safety, infrastructure, and people, period. Had they done that the first time, we wouldn't have had Hinkley, we wouldn't have had Kettleman, we wouldn't have had a San Bruno, we wouldn't have had those fires, we wouldn't have lost the lives we did and destroyed the

environment had they just done the right thing. We really need to relook at some of our business models because we do things ass backwards. And that model won't sustain us in the future. Right. I mean, capitalism is set up for that. The corporation can't be relied upon to look out for the public welfare. It's concerned with its quarterly P&L and the stock price and all of that. So they're going to make those kinds of decisions. And that's why we have regulatory bodies and we have laws. So walk me through why the EPA and our kind of legislative landscape has failed to become the adequate safety net that we need to protect us. Well, kind of what you just said, you know, somebody asked me once, you know, who fails more, agencies or companies? I don't know. I don't think they sleep in the same bed.

Well, we got Scott Pruitt right now. Yeah. For a whole host of reasons, the money matters more and the agencies succumb to that. And information is concealed. succumb to that. And information is concealed. You don't always have the right people getting the right information and they put it in a box it's forgotten about. One thing I do see going on is a lot of suppression, a lot of bullying, a lot of labeling, a lot of fear. You didn't see that, unsee it, you're going to lose your job, gets thrown in a box. And there's a good way to play the shell game to kind of move the data around. Listen, you know, PG&E on those

fires, it took, I believe it was the Wall Street Journal, dug up documents. I mean, we have this amazing freedom of information and most people don't know how to access it, found a document filed with the state. The PG&E knew 18,000 miles of their transmission lines were going to fail. How'd that get overlooked? Was it deliberate or did somebody throw it in a box and didn't know what it meant? And so we need to have the right people in the right jobs looking for the right information and how we stop the bullying and the suppression out of fear. You know, listen, whistleblowers come to me all the time. And they come to me because they're terrified they're going to lose their job if they say anything and they know something. So they're desperate to get information out. This isn't

something that just started yesterday, though. I i mean it boggles my mind i began my work 1992 and it's 2020 we're still talking about it only it's is it any better or is it it's worse right it is absolutely worse because we just keep kicking the can down the road and we you've got to have the right politician that's going to really stand up or our leadership to a cause or issue. But oftentimes they rely on someone else. And then the company gets involved. And PG&E has a huge role to play here in the state of California. And I think our government, our leadership here has allowed them to run as a monopoly and get away with what they have. So we have to find better ways for our leadership that don't succumb to the pressure of a big company, politics, campaigns, finances,

and all that gets convoluted for the sake of money. And then the issue at hand, I don't know, goes away. I mean, it seems like we've gotta reform the lobbying laws to prevent the influx of money that influences these politicians. We've gotta prevent the kind of shuffleboard game of people going back and forth between high ranking government positions

and CEO jobs at these companies because it just becomes an old boys network where they're scratching each other's backs and the public is lost in the sacrifice. Meanwhile, science is bought and paid for. It's manipulated to serve a certain narrative, and we suffer. And without people like you, we're lost, and it shouldn't be that way. Well, here's again where I see the hope.

It is very daunting. But we, the people, have very daunting but we the people have always been absent from from the equation because trust trust is gone and what i do see in communities this happened to me i'm too familiar with this so i recognize it pretty quickly i have dyslexia so very young in my life I was teased and bullied and labeled and judged and put into a box. My mom always taught me just because you're different doesn't mean you're inferior. And quickly in my life, you know, I was labeled or judged or perceived even in the film because of the way I dressed or walked. And this assumption, this girl can't possibly have a brain.

And I get into communities in Hinkley. And this is why they don't speak up or speak out because they think, and a lot of us do, that if you're not a scientist, you can't understand science. And if you're not a doctor, you certainly couldn't dare speak about the illness of your child and possibly be right, or because you're a mom, or because your socioeconomic factors are different, or because of racism, which is existent out there in the environment, that there's this idea, you're not the best educated, maybe you don't know, you're a mom, therefore you shouldn't say anything. And we hear that, and we're like, oh, you know what, maybe, yeah, you're right. And we just kind of pull back.

That happened to me my whole life. I recognized it and I pushed out of the box in the beginning of that. And every community I go into, it is the exact same thing. They have already tried to reach a politician. They've already tried to write to the company. They've already tried to talk to a neighbor. And it's the same thing. I don't know about that. I doubt it's the water. That's a conspiracy theory. Our government

wouldn't do that to us. You're going to damage our property values. So there's a whole mechanism that goes on. And it's been going on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on. And I think this is where we are today. That wake up call where we've been deceived. We're clearly getting indication we have. We're really upset. We've gone through COVID. We were locked up. I'm not sure that it gave everyone that moment to really start looking because we're always so busy. What the hell's going on? And while it is awful right now i've learned you have to go through that clash to slice through the shit if i'm allowed to say that on your show yeah you can say whatever you want and drop an f-bomb no um to see it we can't fix our problems if we don't see it and we don't act

and respond to it i'm not in favor of all the violence. I'm not. Tearing down buildings, burning, I'm not. But this is a result of decades of distrust, disrespect, not listening to the people, labeling them and judging them and putting them over here and hoping you go away and casting the situation aside like we're all a bunch of idiots. And I just think it's boiled to a head. Yeah. The pressure valve, it just had to explode. This is a natural progression of what's been going on for a long time. I could tell you, I see it out in the communities. Well, I know that when you go into these communities, at least initially, perhaps not today, but the response is, who are you? You're not a scientist.

You're not a lawyer. What are you doing here? Your opinion holds no sway or merit. Go away, right? And it was only by dint of sheer perseverance. the title of the book is like Superman's Not Coming, but if you have some like superhero qualities, it's like this incredible perseverance, you know, like a dog with a bone, you're not gonna let it go no matter what. You have incredible people skills, which I wanna talk about.

I used to be a corporate lawyer, so I know like the blind spots that a lot of lawyers have when it comes to actually trying to get things done in a community. And also, something that I think is tremendously overlooked, you talked about dyslexia and your learning disability, but you also have a photographic memory, right? That's because of my dyslexia. Did you have to train that in you, or did you always have that? I always had it. Did you have to train that in you or did you always have that? I always had it.

You get these great speeches in the movie where you get a glimpse of this, but it's never sort of expressly acknowledged or addressed. I've always had it. My mom used to always say when I was a little girl, and my mom was a journalist and a sociology major, school teacher, well-educated. My dad, well-educated, a mechanical engineer, graduated from KU. He ran the pipelines for Citigroup. Yeah. So water started at the very beginning. At the very beginning for me. And mom was like, you cannot beat this girl at a game of go fish. You can't. And dyslexia was really misdiagnosed back then, and we still have issues with it today. But my mom always intrigued me as a sociology major and a journalist. She knew immediately something was different, but that if my self-esteem was lost, I'd be doomed.

She knew she had a fight to get me through the school system. And she was the first one that told me, you've got to have stick-to-itiveness, which is still my favorite word today. Which is actually in the dictionary. It is. Noun. Propensity to follow through in a determined manner. Dogged persistence born of obligation and stubbornness. I'm like, wow.

That's all you had to say to me, Mom. And I truly became the little engine that could. I think I can. I think I can. I know I can. I think I can. I know I can. I know I can. I don't know where this idea started that we have to fit in this nice little neat box. And oftentimes education can be a standard of conformity.

And so I was different. And then I needed to go into special ed and I didn't fit in. And my mom taught me just because you're different doesn't mean you're inferior. And I utilized that stick-to-tiveness and I kept finding different ways to work with something. One thing I did find out is I was fun and I could make friends and I liked people. And that was a way to cover up for what I felt was my inadequacies. One person that really helped me was my high school teacher, Kathy Borseth. She saw the same thing.

But instead of pigeonholing me and saying, and immediately labeling me not knowing what was wrong, but seeing that I was different, she pulled me aside one day. She said, you intrigue me. I said, why is that? She goes, because I know you know everything in class. I know you hear me. You're the first one with your hand up, but I give you a test and you failed. Now I can read well and good, but how I code is very differently. And that coding is what helped me figure out Hinkley and everything else that I'm doing in my environmental work.

And she said, what's up? I said, I don't know, dyslexia, something like that. She didn't miss a beat. She goes, hmm, interesting. She said, so let me ask you a question. If I give you this test right now, are you going to pass it? I'm like, yeah. She goes, I'm going to scramble everything up.

I'm like, be my guest. She did. She goes, oh my God, you didn't miss one question. You got an A plus. She said, I'm going to do this for you. Every test, every pop quiz, every semester, every final. She gave it to me orally. What she did, not only for my GPA, but my self-esteem was everything. And there is such in every community I go to starting in Hinkley, there is a mom there. There is that persistent person, but she's pushed back. You're crazy. You're not this. You're not that. Go away. So when I went out to Hinkley, I'm like, I have been here before, if not my whole life. And this perfect storm was brewing. And I found some courage because I remember standing there looking at a two-headed frog and green water.

And somebody from PG&E said, oh, that's the standard. I was like, bullshit. I started to own what I saw. And oftentimes we don't own what we know because you get that voice in your head, and then we just go away. I see it everywhere. But when you get in there, I'm like, I'm you, you're me. I mean, we've experienced this. I'm like, I'm you, you're me. I mean, we've experienced this. I'm not afraid to be vulnerable. I'm not afraid to tell you I don't know. Those people ask me questions and I go,

fuck, if I know, let's get the lawyers on the phone. They're like, oh my God, I'm so glad you said that because I didn't want to be the first one to say I didn't know. And to be real, and I'm not perfect, but I code differently. Most dyslexics do. So what had happened for me in Hinkley, where we had a big breakthrough, was a report written by Environment and Ecology.

It's dated 1992. One paragraph. It stated that 1992, the monitoring wells still had 5 ppm hexchrome in them. Now, I had already learned enough about hexchrome to know that that was a hazardous waste level. That's a lot of freaking chrome. And that 90% of the chromate had already been removed via agricultural and domestic use. I immediately went, oh, my God, it's 1992. It's still 5 ppm. If 90% has been removed via the people, what was the number in 82? What was it in 72? I go backwards. That's where I code and

calculate. And guess what? PG&E knew in 1958 that chromium-6 hit the aquifer at 58 ppm. That number changes everything, especially on dose-response ratio and exposure and what would have happened to those people. And that's how I think. That's how I code. But forever it was different, and I was perceived as a special needs child because of that. Yeah. It all goes back to that teacher giving you that backbone and that confidence. That's beautiful.

And that mother, you know, I do share this story because it's important to what we're talking about. My own daughter and my first granddaughter is special needs, and she has Emanuel syndrome. And my first granddaughter's special needs, and she has Emanuel syndrome. And Elizabeth was told, and I was there, most of them, it's very rare, walk, talk, thrive, to thrive. And I saw Beth. She said, hell no. I saw that mother, that person, that instinct, that love, that compassion, that moment of courage, and I've got this, and we can do it. And I'll tell you what, today, Grace is walking,

talking, thriving. I watched her ride out here in Thousand Oaks at your Special Olympics on her 100-yard dash, and I could cry. She did it, and that was from her mom, her mom believing in her and pushing her, even when it was hard. And here she is today. She's the apple of my eye and we can overcome. But I think we forget so much about how we can overcome. And it isn't just

book smart. It's compassion. It's trust. It's stick-to-itiveness. It's feeling. It's okay to be different. It's okay to be vulnerable. It's okay to be imperfect because none of us are perfect. And somehow when we embrace that and we just have a sigh of relief, it gives you a space to believe in yourself and actually love yourself and go out there and give it a really fucking good try. Was that the grandchild that kind of catalyzed you to come back? Because you've been doing this for a long time, but you've stepped back a little bit, I guess, for a while. But now you're back in full force.

She was part of the— Absolutely. I was there when she was born. Reinvigorated you. She did. Because I just like, oh, no, I'm so reinvigorated again. And what is the world going to look like for them? I think we all question that right now. And I'm in that fight. And again, as a mom and a grandma,

and oftentimes that instincts, that intuition, I'm in it for the long haul. And oftentimes the other side, whoever they may be, I spend a lot of time thinking, who are you and where are you that's out there that we think is either against us or is going to fix this. But I'm in it for the long haul. That's stick-to-itiveness. As my mom said, life will require that you have stick-to-itiveness. You may not be born with it, but it's developing the habit of persevering, even when you don't want to, and it would be easier to give up. So when you're first working with Masry and you're carrying around this doggedness, this stick-to-itiveness, but your life up to that point had been a lot of banging your head against the wall and not really making your way in the manner in which maybe you envisioned for

yourself. When you get that file and you see that paperwork about medical records stuck in this essentially a real estate deal, do you have a conscious sense of like, there's an opportunity here for me? Like what, what was your awareness level? Like that stuck out, but you were a file clerk. It wasn't your job to go investigate at that point, but there was something that clicked in you that said, I need to know more like here, I'm going to go on a journey with this. Curiosity. I was smart enough to read the medical reports and because they were done in a bar graft so it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what the hell a lot

t-cells what are those i looked it up so white counts what does that mean looked it up all of this stuff was off the chart and mom kicked in and curiosity kicked in and'm like, what if that was my child? I'd be worried. And that's what kicked me off, was just my own, oh my gosh, this is weird. I'm curious. Why would this be happening? What's wrong with the children? What would I do if I saw blood work like this on my kid? That's where I went.

Yeah. In the movie, that woman is played by Mark Helgenberger, right? Yeah. But is she a stand-in for a variety of people or based on a real person? Because in the book- Roberta. In the book, she was more up to speed and more suspicious and knew more. It plays in the movie like she's less suspecting of what's happening. Well, if you remember in the movie when Julia first meets her, it's Roberta Walker. And she knew enough because she was already asking questions.

That's why I was there. And you see her connect the dots in the conversation. And she goes, my God, the water, the kids, the pool. Roberta was already there. When she looks out and her kids are swimming in the pool at the time.

And that's how I got involved, beginning with Roberta's persistence. And like I told you in every community there's a roberta walker yeah there's an aaron brockovich oh they're there yeah and then when they joined forces we started really getting some stuff done i still talk to roberta all the time i was just on text with her the other day she's amazing and she's one of those moms and she was done with the bullshit and she'd been pushed through enough. And, you know, we talk about in the book, when people come to me, like even Roberta, when she first came to the law firm, in a way, they're looking for permission, if you will, to act and what they really need is support. And when I showed up and I'm like, oh, hell yeah, no, I wouldn't deal with this if this was my kids.

I mean, it starts there. The support starts there. And this is something that was really well thought out to keep covered up. And so the community, they didn't know who to listen to. And then once we got together, it's amazing what happens because nobody ever wants to be the first to say it. And we don't wake up every day and ask our neighbor, did little Johnny get diagnosed with colitis? And have you been having chronic nosebleeds and weight loss? We don't do that. And once we started getting Roberta come to the firm, I go out there, Roberta and I together, and then calling

another mom and another mom, very quickly, we became a bigger group. And I talk about that in the book, logic, common sense, leverage. People think leverage is a bad thing. No, it's not. That's getting to know your neighbor. The minute we started leveraging ourselves with the community, PG&E ignored us with one and five and 10. But when we came 50, 200, 500, 600, they're like going, what's going on right here? And that creates an environment where a whistleblower might feel more inclined to disclose what he or she knows. I mean, in the movie, the Fisher Stevens character, like short of getting his documents, it would have been a different story, right?

So you need the groundswell, but you also need those people on the inside who might be willing to share with you something that you're not gonna be able to find otherwise. Well, you do, and you're absolutely right. And Roberta Walker had already been to the waterboard and she had made a note on one of her notes. And I'm like, what's this CR6?

And she said, oh, there's chromium six. So she was already on it. So when I went into the waterboard, that's when I started seeing the documents like the one I just shared with you. So oftentimes documents are there on the intake. Somebody may or may not know what they are and files them and they're never discovered again. Or somebody clearly will make a reference, put this over here, don't bring it out again. So there's a whole lot of factors that happen. And there is a whistleblower, they will make a phone call, you've

got to go find a document. And in a lot of these communities, now they'll come to me, and we'll go in with some documents. I can see when the light bulb comes on, and I'm like, yes, okay, this community is ready to roll. Now we're going to go over here because they will catch on. And they're usually pissed. And I actually hope if people read the book when they close it, you get mad too and realize that you too can do exactly. The women of Tonganoxie, Kansas, they ran Tyson out on a rail. The women of Hannibal, Missouri, they ran for office in one. My gosh, in Flint, Michigan right now, we have the youngest uh gentleman on city council 19 years old do not think for one minute just because

you don't have a phd or you're a stay-at-home mom or you're a cocktail waitress somewhere or you're working as a you know a law clerk that everyone thinks because you have stilettos on and blonde hair and big boobs you're stupid we shouldn't be underestimating people. You can do this. Find your cause, whatever it may be, and it may not be water. You need the tips, the strategy and the tools to fight, learn them and game on. And you can do it. And I'm telling you the first step you take and you get just a little bit of that win or you're like, oh my gosh, I understand this. Or my gosh, I got such and such a neighbor to talk to me. And you see it, it's contagious. And the momentum builds. It's very empowering that you can fix or change a law or get involved or get noticed or get on a Superfund site, or get information to a doctor and see what's happening. Change in your own backyard. I love it. We do that. So exciting. We the people. I think we the people have forgotten to believe in we the people.

Also, what you've done, which I think is really cool, it's one thing for, you know, you always say like there's a millionaire in Brockovich is, yes, there are to some extent, but there's only one of you. And you're on the receiving end of, you know, I'm sure tens of thousands of emails from moms and all kinds of people saying, this is what's going on. How do you scale that advocacy? And you created this website where you're essentially crowdsourcing all of these complaints and ideas and putting them on a map and allowing people to kind of see where these things are going on. And it creates these patterns. And I think that fuels people's sense of empowerment in terms of what they can get done. Well, I believe most all of us are really visual, and we can't always see the big picture.

And that's why I started Community Health Book, which is under construction right now. Right, I went to it. It was in beta. But it was up, but now it's like being retooled or something? Yes, it's always been up. But first of all, the person that I was partners with in D.C. has moved on, so I've pulled it back. But now I envision the map as ways. And we don't have a place to report.

And that's something that's important. And how Community Health Book began. So I was just doing it myself. Again, I'm visual and I like to see things, but I also remember things. So I would go through my emails and there would be an email from a woman in Illinois, let's say, and she was concerned about a report on her water. But what was really concerning her was a disease her child had. And she was concerned that another child in her child's school had the same disease. Okay. That's in here in my head. And then a week later, another email would come

in and I'd go, didn't I see this email last week? So I'd run a query. Well, unbeknownst to me, not one mother had contacted me, but five or six from the same town, same problem. All right. You know what? I think that's odd. I just think that's odd. So I started putting it on a map. And one day I looked over and there was like 350 dots. I'm like, what the hell? And was it, did I read it? Initially it kind of lined up with where these Superfund sites were. Oh, absolutely. An overlay. So that whole Northeast quadrant lights up and it matched identical, the Superfund sites. So it started telling me, all right, water, environment, Superfund sites. And see, we never come back and check on the health and the welfare of communities.

So what had happened was I was up speaking to Senator Boxer and her environmental working group, and I presented the map. She was like, wait a minute, what is that? And she's like, why would we not know that? And I'm like, well, I think people try to report, but for a lot of reasons, I don't know. If the information doesn't get stuck in someone's mind, it's in mine. So I created the map. Why wouldn't the EPA create that for everybody? Well, here's why. And this is usually mind-blowing for people. So I was testifying with a young boy by the name of Trevor Schaefer. And Trevor is a young boy that had a brain tumor from Boise, Idaho, and numerous of his friends did. He was really the only one to survive.

He vowed that he would do something about it in his life. So he was up there speaking. that he would do something about it in his life. So he was up there speaking. The reason we were there is there was a reform to the Toxic Substance Control Act happening, which hadn't been reformed since Frank Lawton. I mean, it had gone a long time. When that was reformed, President Obama put in

the Toxic Substance Control Act, a law called Trevor's Law that requires the agencies to build a national disease registry database because we don't have one. So Florida, Kansas, Tennessee, every state has a cancer disease registry, but they can't share that into a national database because of HIPAA. So we can't find or see people who've migrated away, report back, is it a Superfund site, and we'll miss the whole picture. So that's what really took Community Health Book off. And I visualize it as ways. If there's no national registry database, where is a place that people can report to? I am down here in Padre Island, Texas, which just happened, and the platform just blew. How can I report that? And if everybody had a place to report, you would visually see what I do. It's like, whoa, hello, this isn't just Hinkley.

This is happening everywhere. We can't have a solution to a problem if we don't see where the problem is. And this map helps you see. Right. How did water, access to clean water, which is a humanitarian thing, should be a fundamental right of every human being, become a political football? How did this thing become so politicized? Power. Money. Privatization of water. Oh, my God. My dad, he used to sing these songs to me all the time.

You know, see this water today trickling down the stream. Enjoy it because tomorrow it might not be seen. He promised me in my lifetime water would become a commodity more valuable than gold or oil. And I think there's a lot of movement around water rights, buying water rights, companies like Nestle, power, money. And it's becoming more and more valuable. And those that can control it and own it and make the money off of it dominate. And those of us that rely on it as everyday citizens that we've always thought as this country began, and it's what made us so great was our infrastructure and our water and our municipalities. They take the cheap route. They abuse funds and bonding, and they don't use it for what they should. And it gets covered up.

And somebody doesn't want to get fired. and somebody doesn't want to get fired and somebody doesn't want to rat somebody out and money greed then it becomes a social stratification thing lower income communities very much short shrift on this whole thing and then you end up with flint absolutely and you know hannibal was on track to be Flint for a different reason. We've got to take a look at our municipalities. And the moms came in. Yes. And Flint, before Flint became— So why did Flint become so fraught? It's one thing in Hinkley when we learned a big corporate utility lies to you and can go to bed at night not worrying if somebody died

from their poison because they buy their own shit that it can't hurt you. That was one lesson for us. Flint was another because the agencies all the way up to the governor knew. I think about this. Ed, somebody that I trusted, if for years he knew that what I was doing was poisoning me and never said anything, this is a sock in the people's gut. And it takes a while for you to go, what the hell? So in Flint, they switched river water, which you can't do. Water is amazing. There is no two bodies of water anywhere on the planet the same. Isn't that amazing? It's like an individual fingerprint like we are. You can't just add chemicals, take them out, switch river waters without a crisis.

And when they switched river water, they were on Detroit and they went to Flint. It's much more corrosive water, different pH. And when they ran it through the system, it caused all the lead in the lead pipes to precipitate up. Yeah. So I got an email from one of the moms a year before you even knew about Flint or anyone. I happen to be in Australia. And so I can read between the lines. I don't know, people will tell you I'm psychic or weird that way. I don't know about that. I don't know. Maybe you just have to understand people sometimes. What are you saying to me? And I'm not afraid to go, what are you saying to me? But I was like, this is odd. No. So I sent it to the water expert that I work with, Robert Bocock. And he emailed me back and he goes, I'm going there tomorrow. So he went there tomorrow. He's a water master master he knew what was getting ready to happen that municipality did everything they weren't supposed to do this was a perfect storm brewing

and all through the agencies it got covered up because they all knew they all had some level of culpability absolutely and you know there's been grand juries and the department of health people going to jail and i think that is one thing that maybe we should start looking at. When you start mucking around like that with your municipality and lead or a chemical that's going to harm children or a future generation or kill somebody and you have knowledge, I don't know. Does a $600 million lawsuit bother them? Probably not.

Is PG&E been phased by the billions? Probably not. But where I think they do get phased by the billions? Probably not. But where I think they do get phased, maybe you should sit in jail for 20 years and bring it home to them because somehow they become disconnected. And I don't know why somebody wouldn't say anything, but it was those moms and Dr. Mona. See, they started picking it out together. And it's, you know, in high school, when you write a thesis or paper, and you're just staring at the blank page, it's like, how do I even begin? But when you get the first sentence or paragraph out, you just kind of like roll. I'm out of the country. This has got to get to Bob right away, who has his own set of instincts that gets to Flint. That permission becomes support. When the support comes, it's easier

for another mother to go, oh, I'm so relieved. You too. And then another, you too. And then they start collecting information. Dr. Mona is the doctor. So that's what happens is the collective is suddenly shook up and they get together and these stories hit the media. They become national news. And let me tell you what, we've got 200 other – oh, my God. You know, we didn't learn anything in Hinkley. We haven't learned anything from Flint. They did an amazing job.

Yes, there's a settlement. But the problem still isn't solved. It was happening in Hannibal. It's happening in New Jersey. This is happening right now in a town outside of Albany, the capital of New York. We're getting ready to put up on Twitter every day. I'm going to be tweeting another city, another town, another water crisis. I don't care. I'll do it till I die. That has a lead contaminant. What are we missing here? That's what's so hard to get. And you're somebody who's sat across from these people. You sat across from CEOs, board members, government officials from the federal level to the municipal level.

There is this idea, I think, that these are mustache-twirling evil people. But I'm sure in their own minds, they don't think of themselves as doing anything wrong. Like, what is going on in that culture? Is it sort of the dissemination, the distribution of responsibility across many, many people that allows people to sleep at night? Or why can't they shoulder that responsibility and fix these problems so that they don't? That's what's hard to grasp as just a citizen of the public. Well, we could look at Hinkley. That's a company for the sake of money that's getting ready to freaking get caught. And we've been poisoning people and they're going to do everything they can to hide that.

Flint. But once you've seen these things and you know these lawsuits are coming and Erin Brockovich is out there gunning for you, why can't they clean house and be a little bit more forward thinking to prevent these Flint-type situations from happening? I think egos play a huge role in here., you know, it's a one-time thing. I'm not going to get caught. Catch me if you can. A lot of gaslighting goes on. Honestly, it does. I know we're talking about these days, but taking the minute someone pushes on me now in a community to not look into information, I immediately know you're hiding something.

And now I'm on it. What are you hiding from me? But I think egos play a role. And you're right, sometimes, you know, I could, here's where we're at. I could blame a whole lot of people for everything that's going on. Where the fuck is that going to get us? At some point, I'm going to stop and go, you know, I don't, I don't know. Listen, the problem is here. Now, how are we going to fix this? PG&E may be at that place now with a new board and they're out a third of their company in the recent fires. The government of Flint is clearly, I think once we see them and they're in that hot seat puts them in a different position. This is why I say what we the people can do about it. We the people have to make

it our business and our job to hold their feet to the fire, to hold them accountable, to stay on a situation because oftentimes they bank that we are simply just going to go away. And I think that tide is clearly changing. And in all fairness, sometimes city council members don't know what's going on if we don't say something. And have you ever been to a city council meeting? Right, no, this is one of the things you talk about all the time.

Like, it's easy to show up at these meetings. There's nothing going on. Right. Yeah. I'll never forget in Carson City, California, where the carousel track is, Shell Oil and their tank farm had been linking for years. And all that crude and benzene was literally like Beverly Hillbillies seeping up in their backyard. Benzene, people with cancer, kids sick with leukemia.

I mean, this was a lawsuit. And what we decided to do, because nobody would initiate cleanup orders. It's like, what the? So I think people on the city council are believing the Department of Health and state records that they're aware of this, they're going to do this, they're going to do that.

So here's that show game around. So all this disinformation is coming around. So we decided to go to the city council. And Bob Bocock was behind this, and it was so effective. He got a couple of city bus, you know, school buses together, and he bussed in city members, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of them. So at the end of the city council meeting, they were all outside, but the city council didn't know it. They said, you know, we're ready to

adjourn and they can't adjourn until the last person's been heard. So Bob said, there's some people here that like to come in and talk about the carousel track. They filled up the entire chamber. And what we did was we gave them each a stuffed animal guinea pig. And each child and each family member who had lost someone from cancer wrote on a piece of paper what had happened to them and did a safety pin onto the guinea pig and set it in the middle of the chambers. It was unbelievable. And when they were done, there must've been a pile six feet wide by four feet deep of stuffed guinea pigs listening to these stories. And I will tell you those city council members weren't that good of actors and actresses.

They actually had no idea and no clue what the hell was happening to those people. We need to show up. That's a very powerful example. Yeah. And it's not letting them off the hook, meaning the city council, but they truly didn't know. And how could they? They don't read our minds until we show up.

And understand that they don't, we just believe that they have our back, that they're fully abreast of all these problems and they'll take care of it. And Superman's not coming. That's our wake up call. You know, it's my Wizard of Oz theory. Everybody that works with me, I'll tell you, oh, she's not so she's all under her Wizard of Oz thing. But I can't help myself. I'm from Kansas. And Wizard of Oz was one of my favorite

shows. But I'm not talking about the film. I'm talking about the book, Wizard of Oz, But I'm not talking about the film. I'm talking about the book, Wizard of Oz, and why L. Frank Baum wrote that book, which became the film, at the pre-height of the Industrial Revolution. Individualism and thinking for one's self in a world that would increasingly begin to speak for you. Way back when. That intrigues me. Now, the book has a lot of political allegories. You can go look it up on Google. And so Dorothy is a representation of the girl next door. All of us.

All of us girls in America on a journey searching for, you know what, our life and our meaning. And as you know, the story, she goes out and the tornado comes. But in the political allegory that's been really studied by a lot of scholars and L. Franksbaum's meaning of telling a story through a children's fairy tale. The twister represented disruption in DC. So when Dorothy gets picked up in the tornado and lands on the munchkins, they are the mass citizens who are pissed. And they tell her, follow the yellow brick road,

go down that yellow brick road and find the wizard who will save us, who represents sitting president yeah so off she goes on her journey and the yellow brick road is a representation of the gold standard and in that time there was a fight between the silver and the gold so her slippers in the movie were really supposed to be silver So it's follow the yellow brick road, the path of money. So she meets the Tin Man, and the Tin Man is a representation of the industry worker who's lost his heart. Sound familiar? Wow.

The Scarecrow is a representation of the American farmer who everyone thinks he has no brain because the banks are buying up all of his land. Look at our farmers today. And the cowardly lion is a representation of L. Frank Baum's best friend, William Bryan's ginning, always running as a populist for president, but never won because he had no courage. So this is a representation of the American people, the girl next door, the politician, the farmer, and the industry worker. So off they go on the yellow brick road until they meet the wicked witch.

Only to discover, yeah. Who doesn't want them to find out what's going on. So they got put to sleep in the poppy fields. I wonder if that's where we've been. And I wonder if we're waking up and I'm wondering if we're discovering exactly what they did. There is no wizard. Right. The emperor has no clothes. Correct. And we finally figure it all out. I didn't know that story. Look it up on Google. It's a great political allegory. But we the people, we've

forgotten we had a heart and the brain and the courage. And I'm banking on us. We're going to find our way back. So the movie comes out, you become a household name, almost overnight. I mean, have you ever thought what would have happened if the movie had been called something else? I know. Like the chromium syndrome or something like that? Like it might have altered your life in a very different way. Absolutely would have. I did not. You were so right. And I was terrified. So it was finally the night of the wrap party and everyone for the law firm is there. And you know, this is still overwhelming for me. I don't know that I'll ever really get it.

At some point I've let it go and I don't know. Well, it's the craziest thing because not only was a movie made about your life where the title of the movie is your name, it's made with like the finest talent in Hollywood, like the best people across the board. Well, two stories. So when the whole thing came out,

from that get-go, Carla Schomburg at Jersey Films said, egos can really mess people up. And she didn't know enough about me, but a lot of people, and they're like, someone's gonna make a movie about you. We get kind of like,

listen, this is pretty cool. She'd always say say we do this all the time and more often than not they'd ever get made right cool so i went about my business ed and i used to have conversations and he'd say if this if they really make this aaron who do you think should play you i was like i can't go there i don't know ed and i spent endless hours together in a car we drove up and down this state and all over endless hours i'm talking 12 14 hours a day working and um he'd say oh you know come on and i'm like goldie hawn somebody fun i happen to be a little zany and a little fun most people don't know that about me

you know goldie hawn's fun fun zany cute know, silly. I can really be like that. You have to really know me to see that part of my personality. Other than that, I'm a little bit guarded. But Ed goes, no. He says, I was thinking maybe somebody like Roseanne Barr. And I'm like, ha-ha, Ed. And I go, ha-ha, Ed. He goes, all kidding aside, I wouldn't care who gets the part as long as it's not Julia Roberts.

I go, are you kidding me? First of all, it's never going to be Julia Roberts. She never will use Ed. What was his beef with Julia Roberts? He didn't think her mouth was foul enough and her boobs weren't big enough. And he just didn't think as an actress that she would be right for the part. So the day I got a phone call from Steven Soderbergh and he said, we've cast the role.

I mean, my heart was beating. I'm like, and he goes, it's Julie Roberts. I mean, I could not wait to call Ed, which I did because I was at home and he got on and i

said so they've cast the role he goes who is it and i just went neener neener neener he goes no and then he stopped and he goes okay i tell me to cast tom cruise to play me. And I'm like, yeah, no. They're going in a different direction. But when it happened and at the wrap and everything that was going on, everyone asked me, what are they going to call the film? So I definitely, because I was the one that spent a year with the writer. The writer was in Hinkley. The writer was at the meetings. The writer was doing all that.

Susanna Grant, right? Susanna Grant. She's amazing. Yeah, I've met her a long's a long time ago, but. One of my favorite people on this planet. She's an impressive woman. She is a very impressive woman. Everyone said, what are they going to call the film?

Well, I knew the title was Erin Brockovich. I just said, I don't know. The title is Erin Brockovich. They're like, what a stupid name for a movie. So they said, go ask Steven Soderbergh. So I went up and I asked him. I said, so what's the name of the film? And he just had this deadpan look.

He's like, duh, Aaron Brockovich. And I'm like, fuck. No. Yeah. No. That's when I got uncomfortable. I got even more uncomfortable when I saw it for the first time. And they actually had my maiden name in there.

And I'm like, oh. So at that point, people would know it was me and I got nervous. Yeah. I mean, the spotlight couldn't be hotter. I got nervous. How did that play out? I mean, I'm sure it was overwhelming for a while. Yeah.

It still is. And I can't help myself. I know people always will ask me specific, what are you doing? It's just what I do. And there's things that come to me, and I don't know if I'm a radar for deception. I don't know if I'm a radar for reading between the lines. I don't know if that's because I'm a dyslexic. I've had to find a different way to figure something out.

Not everything hits me. But when it comes to me, I'm like, whoa, no way in hell. And I really didn't know after Hinckley that I would be hit from all different directions, not only in the United States, but globally. Suddenly you become a target. Yeah, I don't know that that really phases me anymore. You know, even out in Hinkley, we used to always say, well, if you get killed like, you know, Silkwood, but we'll definitely know who did it. But I don't think that shit only happens in the movies. Right. Well, let's talk a little bit about water. I mean, we've kind of been dancing around the chromium six thing, but for people that are listening,

who are maybe new to the idea that their water might not be as clean as they believe it to be, what are the things that we should be worried about? What are these toxins? What are the worst ones? What can we... I mean, there's TCE, there's PFAS, there's PFAO, chromium-6, lead, fracking chemicals, like all of these different things. You know, we just turn on the tap and drink the water.

Right. And never think about it and that's the thing that is scary because you know these chemicals have been in our system and our aquifers and our environment for a very long time and many chemicals have latency periods chrome 6 can be 20 years i think that could be why we're seeing an explosion of illness right now, because these latency periods are running. And the clash is here. I think science is catching up with policy. Latency periods are running. So you ask a great question. I will start with water 101. And it's pretty easy. And Bob goes everywhere with me. Robert Bocock, he's a water master,

And Bob, you know, goes everywhere with me. Robert Bocock, he's a watermaster, engineer, the expert. There's nobody knows water better than him. And I understand when he gets to talking on the science because I see the whole audience glaze over. And I myself am thinking, I'm going to have to throw water on my face. So we'll get in the car and I'm like, Bob, this whole long, sordid explanation about organic matter. I'm like, you know, everybodyordid explanation about organic matter I'm like you know everybody in the room organic matter is a science term like I go what the fuck is that he goes uh dirt and I'm like why did you not say that you know it's like my mom teaching me about stick-to-itiveness all you had to do was say stubborn oh I get that all you had to do is say

dirt oh I get that I go oh so it's dirt and fish vomit and fish poo. He goes, yeah. So this is in our water. Bacteria, viruses. All of it. So when it comes into the municipalities, this is why we chlorinate water. What most people don't know is that organic matter and chlorination create a very toxic compound called trihalomethanes. Right there at that point is where everything begins.

The Safe Drinking Water Act requires that you control your trihalomethanes because they're toxic. And if you don't, you have to put on the appropriate filtration system. That costs money and a lot of it. So here's one of our first problems. We throw ammonia into the system and we create chloramines. Chloramines cause a whole lot of issues. Now we're adding another chemical to the water. We don't need more chemicals. We need less chemicals. Ammonia renders chlorination less effective, which is why we're seeing more Legionnaire outbreaks all over the country.

Which is a bacteria. Absolutely. It's waterborne. Most people think Legionnaire is an airborne. It is not. It is a waterborne disease. CDC is contaminated with it right now because they didn't open their buildings safely again. And when you turn the water on, this is-

Wait, the CDC has a Legionnaire's outbreak in their facility? Yeah, in their first building. We've been warning for months because of COVID and all the buildings are closed down and the stagnant water and you turn that system on, if you don't handle it right, you will have less effective chlorination, standing water, Legionnaire. And yes, it was in the paper Wall Street, New York Times posted on it a month ago. We're seeing them everywhere, everywhere. So ammonia causes chlorination to be less effective. We're seeing more Legionnaire. Ammonia also creates a thriving bacteria, it's candy, in the distribution system that can cause our infrastructure with lead to

precipitate lead, iron, and manganese to fall out. Hence, we have more lead outbreaks. So the pipes just leach all of that into the water. And it further deteriorates a distribution system. So if we would just stop the use of ammonia, we would stop further deterioration of our already in great need of repair infrastructure. And we'd have less lead contamination and we'd have less Legionnaire. and we'd have less lead contamination, and we'd have less Legionnaire. Now, talking about this one chemical, in the book, we talk about a water operator who is amazing up in Pukipski, New York. He used the power of common sense. So he turned the ammonia feed on for the first time up there,

and what had happened was he started to observe. Everybody was calling him. It was the water. It's burning my skin. My eyes sting. I got like this scalp psoriasis. I have like these burns and my hair is falling out. Ammonia feet goes off, calls stop. Ammonia feet comes on, calls start. So he finally shut it down and they had massive distribution and they spent millions and millions and millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars in repairing and replacing that distribution system. But the idea that he listened to what the consumer was saying, what are you up to? Turned it off. See, he started to notice that pattern on illness, off stopping. So ammonia is one issue called chloramines that is a big problem in our municipality, which leads us to our lead problems. Chromium-6 is – I learned after the film chromium-6 problems didn't only exist here.

I was getting emails from 126 different countries and territories with lead contamination, Australia, France, Greece, South Africa, India, Italy.

It's everywhere, which kind of made me think that's why this Chrome six, there was such push, not for this film to happen because this is a chemical. A lot of industry has used. And you know why? It gets used in a lot of stuff, and then it percolates through the ground into the water table. Is that the idea?

And it's cheap. It's cheap. Adding ammonia to the system is cheap. You want to cheat the system, and you go cheap. It's a problem every single time. So we have Chrome 6. Environmental Working Group did a study, and that's in the book, Superman's Not Coming, where two-thirds of America's municipality systems have Chrome 6 in their water. 20 years later, we're still having

a fight about it here in California, where we had set the first ever maximum contaminant limit for Chromium 6 in drinking water, because guess what? We don chromium-6 in drinking water. Because guess what? We don't have one anywhere in this country. 20 years later, we still don't. The Safe Drinking Water Act doesn't define safe, right? No. Just because it's within a guideline doesn't, in fact, mean it's safe.

Because chromium-6 hereifornia set the public health the mcl at 10 parts per billion the public health goal is 0.02 that's a huge difference yeah and the law requires that you get as close to the public health goal as possible but the reason we don't is feasibility studies and the municipalities like we don't have the money to do that okay so fine, let's just do nothing. So we've got ammonia, chloramines. Necromium-6, it's not an additive like chlorine or ammonia to help clean the water. It's coming from somewhere else and finding its way into the water.

It's used by industry. And there are very few locations. They like to fall back now on the fact that it is naturally occurring. And in some parts of the world, in some places, some of the mountains are producing that. But I will tell you, 95% of Chrome 6 contamination is from industry. It's a rust inhibitor. It's an anti-corrosive. They use it in tanneries. That's why you see huge outbreaks in Italy.

Right. So the runoff from those facilities. Aquifers, a runoff. It gets sucked up into the system. You drink it, you don't know it. You don't see chrome six in water until it hits about one ppm. And by then you're pretty fucked if you've been drinking that for a while. You would have already known something was wrong. pretty fucked if you've been drinking that for a while. You would have already known something was wrong. You'd have stomach problems and you would. It turns kind of a pea yellow. And from there, it goes green all the way up to about 24 ppm. It starts to turn purple, which the Aesop's River in Greece is so contaminated. A community from there called Onafita reached out to me.

A third of their children have cancer. Long story short, a third. There's a town in Kalamazoo, Michigan, same scenario. Mary Clark and other moms on that one. All these are going to be in my book, my podcast. There is hope out there. Again, we the people. Right. And when we know, we act.

But we're on the apocalyptic part right now. Keep going. We are, but everything we're talking about, I think, got us here. It was about to boil over. And I've seen this in communities for a while. But in Onafita, Greece, they are at the end of the Aesop's River, and there's a huge waterfall, and their wells are right there. I'm not kidding you. Look it up on Google Earth. It is so laced with chromium-6, the river and the waterfall runs purple. It blows my mind. That's crazy. So Chrome 6. The last one I'll talk about. So we're going to-

PFOS or TCE? TCE. Oh, you don't want me to get started on TCE. I don't want to go too far afield here. But I will tell you about PFOS. And here's what I want to tell you. Because it is the perfect chemical and the perfect example

to share with you how the system works. That's the one that's in Scotchgard, right? PFOS is the firefighting film. So 3M created a group of chemicals, 3,000 different chemicals, to create one family called the perfluorinated group. Within that, you have PFOA that you will know as Teflon. And that was the big fight Rob Blott had that resulted in the film Dark Waters and his book Exposed. He went after DuPont for 20 years because they knew. And one of the other chemicals in that family with PFOA is PFOS, which is fire-fighting foam.

That's what you would know it at. Scotchgard, all of that. That's why you went to Australia last year, right? Yes, because they have a big problem too. They're a little ahead of us in some ways because in some way they are at least dealing with it. We are literally shitting in our own mess kit. We keep polluting the water that we grow our food in. You've seen what's happened with glyphosate.

We are eating and drinking these chemicals. We're in deep trouble. Like in Australia, you can't even eat the oysters anymore. You couldn't eat the cattle. So now we can't eat the oysters. We can't eat the fish. We can't eat the cattle. What are we really? Okay. This is a problem. Here in the United States, some 20 some years ago, 3M did notify the EPA that this is a bad chemical. Our EPA even sent documents in the 90s to Australia. Better keep your eye on this one. You need to monitor this. Now, the big problem with this chemical is it's so persistent in the environment, you can almost not remove it. So here's what the EPA does. Okay. We hear you. We will create a guideline for this chemical, 400 parts per trillion. Where the guideline came from, I don't know. I don't think anyone knows.

And the irony of 3M reporting this to EPA instead of the other way around, like there is this weird inversion of the burden of proof. It is. weird it is inversion of the conversation with that right who's so who's in whose bed so the epa creates the guideline 400 parts per trillion so they notify all municipalities you can run this chemical through your system up to 400 parts per trillion boom life goes on oh so ep EPA then commissions a study. We have to understand commissioning a study costs millions and millions of dollars for one chemical. We've got some 40,000 chemicals hitting the marketplace. So they commission a study to do the science. What does this chemical do in the environment to people? Okay. I'm laughing because it's so ridiculous.

I can't even believe I'm having the conversation, but this is what's happening. And at this point, it's integrated into all these products and being used everywhere. In the water, everywhere. Well, guess what happens? Oh, four years ago, science catches up with policy and the foam rings.

Yeah, Houston, we have a problem. This chemical, you're probably not going to get out of the environment, but it causes a lot of disease and cancer. What? Oh my God. So the EPA is like, what? So, okay, well, 400 parts

per troy is probably too high. Let's reduce it to 70. So then they have to notify all the municipalities. You got to go down to 70 parts per trillion. What are they doing? What, are you kidding me? We don't have the budget to do that. How are we – You told us we could run up to 400 parts per trillion.

Now we're down to 70? Well, then they have to notify the consumer. Guess what the consumer does? They call me. Is this why we have testicular cancer? Is this why our son's in Switzerland being treated for this? Is this why I lost my daughter to thyroid cancer is this why my wife has community after community after community after community state after state and i'm like what an ass backwards way to do anything so here's

the thing you get to put these chemicals into the environment first and we'll find out down the line what the fuck it does to us with no requirement on the upfront no i'm the epa you will give me a study of five to seven years to show me first what this does to the environment and people before i ever let you put it into the marketplace wow Wow. That's insane. That's PFAS. It is the largest contaminant in our national water supply. And that's where we're at today. In the history of this country right now. So I just put out, I think tomorrow on Twitter will be,

we just posted on Facebook here in California. In Kern County, there's a large aquifer, and we have aquifers. They're banked, and it's where we bank water, and it's underground that we need. The Los Angeles Municipal Water District can't bank that aquifer anymore because it's so polluted with chrome 6 and pfos that creates a very big problem for a city like la in one of our aquifers that you can't access for water anymore so crazy and i know we get like overwhelmed freaking fatigue i'm with you, but I can pass on a lot of fights. We are water. We are sustained by water. Do not think that we might not have water, especially if we keep going at this rate. And let's get serious about climate change. And we talk about climate change in the book,

and we talk about Johannesburg, South Africa, where they literally were going to have day zero. Yeah, that was day zero. But here's what they did, what we're not doing, and where we can learn from. The people responded. The people were involved. The people rationed. They did what they had to do.

The agencies responded. They became prepared, and they diverted. Day zero. We've got to get and stop the argument. I don't care what side of the aisle you're on. This is all of our issues. We need to work together. We need to be informed.

We need to be prepared. And we can divert. And there are solutions to these issues. The problem is we won't get busy doing them. And that's where we have to go. It's crazy that in 2020, there isn't a technologically innovative solution to this problem

that doesn't involve these toxic chemicals. Like, isn't there a way to produce clean water for the consumer without use of all of this? Eradicate the chemicals? We have to, you know, re-pipe everything though. We do. And we are very well aware that we have that infrastructure issue. So we've managed to find trillions in COVID. You can find trillions to begin. Who's doing it right? What countries really have this dialed? You know, France doesn't use many chemicals. Europe does well.

They eradicate chemicals. France has the public water everywhere in Paris, right? All the fountains are drinkable. You know, they've protected their sources. They don't add more chemicals. I mean, the game is to not add chemicals. We continue to add more because we have so much pollution.

They're eradicating chemicals. Europe has eradicated Chrome 6. We haven't. But I will tell you. And glyphosate. Yes. So they are ahead of the curve on that because they get water. They get public health.

I mean, and I don't know why. Because I think our system is so corrupt and has so failed that everyone's busy trying to hide it and we've just slid further down the road and it's to the point where this isn't speculation this is fact and we've got our leadership's just got to stop the bickering and and i don't care anymore. None of it. Say it. Say it. We got a problem. We got a lot of chemicals. This is a solution we're going to have. First step, no more ammonia.

Start eradicating these chemicals. The chemical lobbyists have a huge handle on what goes on. And so Europe does it pretty well. Australia, they definitely have some of our same problems. But they're dealing with it. We're not dealing with this all the time. And it's so crazy because it's such a vast understatement to say that this is an important issue. It's the most important issue. Without clean water, there is nothing else.

And that's why I say, we the people, make it your business. TCE, that's a bad situation, especially out in Camp Lejeune. Before I go there, trichloroethylene, widely used, definitely in our water sources. it your business. TCE, that's a bad situation, especially out in Camp Lejeune. But let me, before I go there, trichloroethylene, widely used, definitely in our water sources, aquifers, we're sucking it up, rivers, creeks, strutiburies, dumping, by way of example. In Minnesota, TCE has been widely used and a community got involved because their water and wells were contaminated oh they became their aaron brockovich and they got the media involved they stayed on this i want to tell

you about three four months ago because of what they did bringing this to light educating the community even educating the media all the way to the governor they they have banned the use of TCE. Boom. There's one step. That's not what the chemical lobbyists want. That affects their bottom dollar. That is companies in bed with our politician, and these things aren't dealt with. But Minnesota did.

That's what they do in Europe. In Australia, they're dealing with it. But Minnesota did. That's what they do in Europe. In Australia, they're dealing with it. We just need to take that step and say, Houston, we have a problem. I've always said we are inherently great. The problem is we're not solution driven.

It's here. I'm sorry, Tesla. Just send us back out to space. Don't tell me that we can't find the money, and you know we can after the trillions and trillions of dollars we've seen just begin to address infrastructure, reduction of chemicals. I bet you if we would even do that 20 years into the future, we might see less disease and a healthier population. 100%. So if somebody's listening to this and this is all new to them and they've been drinking out of the tap forever and it doesn't smell bad and it's not green and

they haven't seen frogs with two heads, how can they get a little bit more educated about the health quality of their water? I mean, the water bill has like these, they do these studies every year, right? Like you can access that information. You're supposed to be getting a water quality report every quarter. Right. No one reads that. I don't know if I've ever read that. So perfect example. You know, I've been on the book tour and interviews talking to everybody.

I'm here today. So a reporter did a piece about the book in Phoenix. And she said, what's one of the first things I can do? I said, get your water quality report and read it. You know, it's like an insurance company policy. We have one. You don't read it until your house is burnt down. You're like, what the hell?

Give a ticket away? What is this? I mean, we have to take accountability and responsibility for getting involved and finding out ourself. Don't rely on someone else. But if you're reading it, you have to know what you're looking for. If you don't understand it, email me, and we will tell you. And it's pretty easy. So this reporter called me, and she's like, I got my water quality report, and I have a bunch of chrome six in my municipal water.

Well, see, here again, we could get into guidelines and they're following a guideline by the state at 50 parts per billion. But here in California, we know it can't be more than 10 parts per billion. The science says it should be 0.02 parts per billion. And that because it's total chrome, we forget that a third of that is hexavalent chrome. So we have to speciate it out. So the number means nothing. And then if she, not if, she out so the number means nothing and then if she

not if she went to the environmental working group and saw all the numbers that you shouldn't have around the country for chrome six in your drinking water she exceeded that and she said so you say in the book that when by the time you get these reports they're already three months outdated i said yeah that's their lag time. She goes, so I've been drinking this Chroma 6 for three months? I'm like, yeah. And she didn't even know it. We can't just assume. I've learned this in 20 years or longer in the field, racking my brain to read and understand and comprehend this. We can't assume that our Department of Health, our state officials, our city council,

our federal government, or any one of our leaders has your fucking back. Yeah, my instinct is we don't just need an effective EPA. We should create a new regulatory body just for water, just for drinking water. We should. With the barren of clean water. Absolutely. And why are we down? And listen, we use chemicals and all these issues in our water. We need what's called level five water operators. They're basically understanding chemistry. In this country, we're lucky if we have 10 of them out there and we have 80,000 municipalities. So we have people who don't know chemistry and how to run the water at the helm. And we talked about that in the beginning. Do we have the appropriate personnel

on a frontline for certain issues? And is that how things are falling through the crack? And do we not pay for level five water operators because they cost money? So if you suddenly got the call out of the blue from the president who said, okay, you're up, you're going to run the EPA, or we're creating this new regulatory body just for water. What's the first thing that you do? What are the biggest policy shifts or changes that could be made at the federal level? I mean, so much of your work is about grassroots, but if you are to look at that from that bird's eye view, what do you start to set in motion that's not happening right now? I enact getting information from the ground up to me.

You can't possibly come in thinking you know everything that's going on. Scale reporting. Absolutely. And even like to the map, we have no place where we can see where you are all at once. So I would begin scale reporting. It boggles my mind. We are either inept or the system's rigged. Neither is going to work. It's kind of both. And I think so. And we have to allow people to have part of that process and believe what they're reporting up

to you. Now there's enough going on in the EPA. So I was very involved in paid in West Virginia and an article just came out and we really brought some attention to the matter. And at some level, finally, because of that pressure, the current administration heard and they've now put them on a superfund list. So that means now they're going to get some response. Otherwise, they would have been ignored. So if I'm head of the EPA, I'm putting in position how that community gets to us to see. We often ignore what they're saying. And you can catch a water system quickly

if you'll just listen to what the people are saying. So that would be one of the very first things that I would do. And then maybe the ability to dispatch like an EPA SWAT team to go interface with the local government, local community. You create an EPA army on the ground. And we have water keepers and river keepers, and they're the spotters that do just that. But when they report back, you have to act, and you have to be able to give them the tools they need to act. Is there any municipality in the United States that's doing a good job?

Poughkeepsie is right now. I mean, they at least addressed your problem. You know, Oregon of late has been showing a lot of issues that they draw from aquifers. So not everybody draws from aquifers. So not everybody draws from aquifers. Depending on the time of year, most of us get it from surface treatments. Sometimes we mix and, you know, we combine them. But that's how we get these issues in Minnesota, where it's in the groundwater and the groundwater fluctuates. So depending on the time of year, whether we pull from it, blend,

blend it with surface water, there's a whole mechanism that goes on. And so I rely, my whole work is, it's an army out there of people and they need to have a place to report. That's one of the first things that we need to do. And information gets lost because- You gotta get that website back up. Well, it's up for them to report. That's one of the first things that we need to do. And information gets lost because- You got to get that website back up.

Well, it's up for them to report, but we're building behind it. So a lot of data is coming in right now and it will be back there. It doesn't mean it's not going to exist. I am getting your information. And I too have to be very careful. This isn't about getting people's information and sharing their health problems. It's about numbers. Numbers are important. So if one's reporting and then 10 and then 50 and then 100, I now see you and I know where I need to go. And we don't have that ability, even at the EPA, to see the big picture. We have 50,000 mines west of the U.S. that are ready to breach,

just like in the Animas River. We need to see those with reporting. This idea that's up here, you magically know what's going on, you're going to report down to us. You can learn a whole lot of information up there on the hill if you let the people report to you, so you can see that the information isolate the problem and begin, you can put ground troops to work. Right. You can create a locally good economy, rebuilding an infrastructure. Right. I mean, that's the thing. You got to create some kind of economic incentive so that it feels like it's in everyone's interest to report, to move forward, and to try to recreate a healthier infrastructure.

Absolutely. If it's just looked like a huge cost and a huge burden and people are going to lose their jobs. Absolutely not. That is not what we want. It can create droughts. When I look at the map, blaming is going to do nothing it initiates we are here this is the problem what is the solution there's great technology there's a new technology coming out a mapping company and they're able to start reading the water uh like the weather so they're you remember the show twister and they put all the little sensors in there yeah yeah so they're dropping sensors way up by canada and watching them as they come all the way down to the gulf

these sensors pick up changes like in the bin and all of a sudden they see a big benzene reading and they're like what is that well coming around the bin is shell oil this isn't about shutting down shell nobody wants to do that. We all appreciate lights, air conditioning, heat, traveling, vacation, our cars, airplanes, going to Australia, all of it. But it doesn't have to be all or nothing. When we see you, we've identified a problem. to clean up a mess, create more jobs, create better technology, look at medically what's going on, find cures possibly. Oh, fathom that. But we clearly could. So the map when we can see you is a designation place for cleanup, for improvements, for jobs, for technology, putting it to use, applying those applications, looking at the health impacts, looking at medicines or cures to make people better. That's a win-win. Right. Early detection.

Absolutely. It's not to shut down industry. None of us are asking that. You know, I talked the other day on the Green New Deal and we talk about climate change. People, it's hard on climate change. You can't really see it or touch it. It's not tangible. And I think that when you say Green New Deal, the other side hears threat, everything that you and I were just talking about. We need to change our verbiage. How about we rebuild on what we have to make it more sustainable? It becomes less threatening. We have a problem. And it's not tear everything down. We have some technology here, how to rebuild on that to make us more sustainable and more safe and ways to have alarms on systems that will tell you what's happening, to put those sensors in the water, to be able to identify these. There's this idea that there's no money to be made in the solution and nothing could be further from the truth.

And we need to begin to implement that. And we'll never get there if we don't see the big picture and say, we have a problem. Now, how are we going to fix it? And start doing that. And all of us taking ownership of that problem and that solution and shoulder the responsibility of participating in that kind of change. We're going to have to, and I think it's here. I think we're off to a rough start. It's more than here. I have to imagine you have some kind of crazy water setup at your house. Do you have insane filters? After everything that you know, what's your relationship to your own intake of water?

A reverse osmosis, we talk about that. And you have to know your water first to know what's your relationship to your own intake of water? A reverse osmosis, we talk about that. And you have to know your water first to know what kind of filtration you need. Not one filtration. There's some new technology out there, but reverse osmosis has historically and currently been the best way to remove multiple types of chemicals at low levels out of your water. multiple types of chemicals at low levels out of your water. So if you have PFOS and you go buy any certain filter to reduce chlorination, it's not going to get out the PFOS.

Right, the Beretta filter or whatever. Right. And so if you have Chrome 6, you need more of like a coconut shell filtration. If you have PFOS, you need more of a granular activated carbon. If you have a solvent, you need different resins. So that's why reverse osmosis is the best, and many people have that. In Texas, one of the congressmen is looking at very large rebates for families that put reverse osmosis systems on their whole house. house, it's one sure way as municipalities are getting rebuilt and read whatever we need to do at that particular facility. It provides you a level of protection at your tap and they will do large rebates. So that's very interesting. There are things that we can do at the consumer

level to get those types of filtrations at the home. You can get reverse osmosis sink mount on your home, and there are some countertop reverse osmosis systems you can use. But you have to know your water to answer these questions, and that's one thing I think we need to understand. We're the ones that are going to have to gather the information, find your facts, and find out for yourself. And we oftentimes don't do that we will when we realize no one's got our ass but we're going to have our own superman's not coming i know it seems daunting

but i actually find it quite exciting because you know honestly um find out be prepared there's things that you can do where you can get involved. And water is something that I just think we've taken for granted and we can't anymore. So we, the people, we have to take accountability and ownership ourselves. 100%. I think that's a great place to end it, but I do have to ask you one more thing. Sure. I would be remiss in not asking you what your thoughts are on bottled water. So many of us are drinking bottled water and single-use plastics.

What is your understanding of how these plastics not just impact the environment but are impacting the water that we drink? Are there some that are better than others? Should we just avoid that? Where's your head with all of that? You read my mind because sometimes you get going way over here. You have to pull me back because I was going to say about bottled water. I'm like anyone else. I travel a lot and there are times I need bottled water. I always look for bottled water in glass. It's so much more easily recyclable. Water is like a placebo, and you may need it on the run. And most bottled water is just reverse osmosis.

And the plastics is a huge problem. So I do need bottled water. I will search for glass when you're traveling you can't bring your own in anymore i use glass in my car my old mason jar if i'm in another country and this is we talk about that logic leverage that logic is your common sense and i've been in many countries where i'm like you i'm not drinking that i can assure you you will not die drinking beer as your water or brushing your teeth in it and definitely not showering depending where you are um there may be times you need bottled water but we're bottled water is going to become a big issue if we continue to have all these

aquifers that are contaminated and we don't clean them up so it's a luxury it's a little bit of a placebo it's a convenience and the plastics are a huge problem we just did a thing by the way on jeans and every

time you wash your jeans 56 000 microfibers fall off and that's falling out into the ocean and creating other issues so i think we have to really go back and look at certain things and how we in this modern society um are contributing to a failing environment and become more conscientious bottled water is going to be there. It is a necessity. Listen, right here, if we have major earthquakes, like down after the hurricanes, the last one in Louisiana, they're looking at three to six weeks. So bottled water is going to be a necessity to some degree.

But I think how we store it in the plastics is an issue. Yeah, there's a difference between having it available as a necessity versus it being a daily convenience. And we go to plastics, why? Cheap. Cheaper to ship. And I think you say in your book, something like 97% of the water that you tested had microplastic fibers in it. Absolutely. And so so again,

cheap. Everything we've talked about how we end up in this way because somebody hides something and somebody's going to go cheap because somebody doesn't want to do it on the upfront the right way. Infrastructure, safety, people first.

If you just did that, we wouldn't have half the problems that we're dealing with now. And so the plastics became cheap. And I know they're working on different plastics, but that doesn't change the fact that this went on for years and years and years and years and people polluting and all those plastics going down the drain and out into the sewer. And when stuff gets in the sewer, don't think that it doesn't, you know.

Just disappears. It's gone. Right. See, so know. Just disappears. It's gone. Right. See, so there we go again. And another thing that's beautiful about the map, we're visual. If we can see it, we're like, oh, wow. Right. We, as a consumer, cannot take anything for granted anymore. And I do believe that we, the people, have an absolute obligation to ourselves and to our family and to our communities to make it our job to find out and be informed.

There's no reason why you shouldn't be. And to act and to find your own courage and not be afraid to step up and get involved. Because Superman is not coming. No, but Tag, you're here. We're it. Powerful Erin Brockovich in the house. Thank you so much. I do want to share with you. It's great to have this conversation

because when I go to parties and people ask me about water and it turns into this conversation, I'm telling you, I know what they say when I leave. They're like, oh my God, don't invite her again. Are you kidding? People are gonna freak out.

They're gonna love this. I know it's overwhelming. I feel it too. But we talk about it in the book. We can talk for two hours just about PFAS. Absolutely. People love it. But you know what?

I will share with this. On my program ramp, realize, assess, and motivate. It's all about oneself. Realize who you are, assess who you are. And look, oftentimes we look for a hero. And the only person standing in your own way of being that hero is, frankly, you. And we all get that little negative voice in our head that tells us do this don't do that, you know realize that you can Have that strength and courage you can find it assess don't assess your bank account. Just assess who you are. What's your character? What's your loyalty? What's your respect? What's your cause? What's your passion? and and what I wanted to say here is

we do Live in a crazy world. I'm thinking my head's going to spin off. I really do. And it's just going faster and faster and faster and faster. And what's happening for us as people, we're losing our mojo and we've lost our motivation and we are frankly exhausted. And what you need to do when you hit that wall, and you will as you move into whatever your causes are, and it may not be water, you got to know how to fight and you got to have the tools. One of the tools that you have to do is self-renewal. We're all on our computers, right? And when a bunch of data comes in or an overload, what do you get? The blue dot just spins and

spins. That thing really irritates me. That happens to us. That's when you need to disconnect. You must do it. And get back to a walk on the beach. Get back to a hike. Get outside and plant begonias. Go play a round of golf. Disconnect and reconnect to yourself. It's amazing when you do that you

can hear yourself think, you can feel yourself feel, you can take a moment to breathe and get clarity. And when you do that self-renewal, you'll find yourself waking up the next day with some motivation and energy to go at it again. Such an important point. We're in a moment right now where we're just being inundated with so many crises and it's so easy to just get overloaded and to hear you download everything you just did about water. It's like, Jesus, you know, we're in a, we got this crazy political cycle right now. We have social upheaval, we have COVID, we have all of these things.

And like, now I gotta worry about this too. And you're asking me to get involved with this. Like I'm maxed out. COVID gave us a hard stop. Take a breath um reconnect and if that's sitting in your backyard reading a book taking a nap um i i think it's helping it's not helping i think it's really put us in a place that it was if the computer crashed and i've said that before um and when it does it can be hard to reboot yeah but there's things that you

can do as you reboot. And one of the things you have to remember is yourself. And I need you to forgive yourself. None of us are perfect. You know what I tell people every time when I give a lecture? I'm like, if you only knew how fucked up I was, you probably wouldn't show up. And they're like, that's why we're here. Because we all have issues. Ease up on yourself. Take a breath. Be thankful for your child, your health, your grandchild, because there is so much going on. But look to you, hear you, forgive yourself for your shortcomings.

We all have them. But you know what? Get back in the game tomorrow. Don't quit. Don't give up. And allow yourself to be flawed and let your vulnerability shine. I've actually learned that my disability and my vulnerabilities actually became my strength

and my gifts. If I just stopped long enough to, I don't know, say to myself one day, hey, you know what? You're okay. See, we did it. We went from apocalyptic and we landed it hopeful. Absolutely. Because change is opportunity in disguise. Absolutely. Aaron Brockovich. Got that off my website. I did. I completely stole that from you. Thank you. I use it all day long. It's fantastic. I don't own it. I love it. I appreciate you. Keep doing what you're doing. We need you

in this world and I appreciate all the work that you're doing. Thank you so much. And honestly, if I coughed, I don't have COVID. I just tested again because I'm getting ready to... I just tested the other day. Well, I have a TV show coming called Rebel. Oh, you do? Well, I was going to mention you've got a podcast that's about to launch, right? Has it launched already? Yeah, the third show's out today. Superman's not coming. And we're just getting ready to do the pilot. It's a legal drama series inspired by your friend here. Katie Segal is playing Rebel.

Oh, really? Get the hell out of here. Yes. I know Katie. Well, her husband's a very good friend of mine. Well, that's really cool. So she's going to play Rebel. And Andy Garcia was signed to play the attorney. No way.

Isn't that cool? So it's a narrative. It is a legal drama series. Legal drama. Yeah, written by Krista Vernoff. Wow. ABC. Now, Krista Vernoff's a Susanna Grant.

Uh-huh. So she's been the head writer for Grey's Anatomy and a lot of stuff. So can we start working on that so like is it a series order already or pilot they're pretty sure it's pilot I know we're shooting the pilot because I just had to sign all the paperwork so I'm one of the executive producers

so pilot keep our fingers crossed you know how Hollywood is everyone seems to be pretty confident. That's pretty cool. So ABC during COVID got rid of all their pilot series except two and we were one. That was one.

David E. Kelly was the other. Wow. So that's a good sign. Very cool. But I love Katie Segal. She's the best. It used to be a running joke. My nickname was Peg Bundy.

So I used to run around in stilettos your life is crazy that is so crazy it just keeps getting weirder right it really does but you know what I never go there it's a calling it's a message for every one of us

I don't know the universe, the energy, the expansion it's just happening, it's a message for every one of us. I don't know. The universe, the energy, the expansion is just happening. It's here. Unbelievable. Alright, well come back and talk to me when the show premieres. Oh, absolutely! You and Katie

are together. Is she the best or what? Unbelievable. That was amazing. Heavy, yes, but incredible. I hope it empowered you to take action, think a little bit more deeply about things like water that we take for granted, find a cause, do something. And to put that altruistic inclination to work, please check out the show notes on the episode page where you'll find links to the climate groups

discussed today, as well as many other resources to expand your knowledge base on all things Brockovich, water, and the environment. Of course, check out Erin's new book, Superman's Not Coming, and you can queue up her new podcast by the same name, Superman's Not Coming with Erin Brockovich, wherever you listen to podcasts.

Finally, congrats to Aaron, as it was just announced that ABC has given a 10 episode straight to series order to Rebel, which is a TV drama inspired by Aaron's life that will star Katie Segal, as you heard us discussed in today's podcast, coming to small screens in 2021. You can give Aaron a shout out on Twitter at Aaron Brockovich or on Instagram at the underscore real underscore Aaron underscore

Brockovich. We also got another roll on AMA coming up in the forthcoming weeks. Give me a call at 424-235-4626. Leave me a message with your questions. Super excited and honored to answer them. If you'd like to support our work here on the show, subscribe rate and comment on it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. Share the show or your favorite episodes with friends or on social media.

And you can support us on Patreon at richroll.com slash donate. Thank you to everybody who helped produce today's show. Jason Camiolo for audio engineering, production, show notes, and interstitial music. Blake Curtis for videoing and editing today's show for YouTube. Jessica Miranda for graphics.

Davey Greenberg for portraits. DK for advertiser relationships and theme music, as always, by Tyler Trapper and Harry. Thanks for the love you guys. See you back here next week with another amazing episode. Until then, drink clean water, get active because Superman is not coming. Peace, plants, namaste. Thank you.