The Rich Roll Podcast - Why Purpose Is The Strongest Form of Activism

Episode Date: January 5, 2015

What if the path you think you're meant to be living isn't your path at all? I grappled with this mental and spiritual Rubik’s cube for decades. Only now — at 48 — do I feel like I have any insight whatsoever into this quandary. Not so with today’s guest. After a drunken car accident at age 19, Jake Ducey had an epiphany: maybe, just maybe, the traditional promise of the American Dream isn't my path to happiness and personal fulfillment. What did he do with this realization? He up and quit school, walking out on a collegiate basketball scholarship to instead light out and travel the world. Along the way, Jake chronicled his journey, distilling his insights down to a book entitled Into the Wind . Undaunted by being turned down by every publisher, he nonetheless self-published his book. And without any marketing budget or publicist, Jake still managed to self-promote Into the Wind to Amazon’s top 300 – no small accomplishment. Jake subsequently piqued the interest and mentorship of people like Chicken Soup for the Soul* author Jack Canfield and Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus* author John Gray. He became a TEDx speaker. And at 23, Jake became the youngest author to land a motivational book publishing deal at a major publishing house (Tarcher/Penguin). The Purpose Principles* – hitting book stores this week — is the product of Jake's journey to date, drawing on the stories of success, failure, and the common threads among some of today’s most successful and influential people to illuminate a plan for living your best life in a changing world – a theme not inconsistent with this show. I’ve hosted more than a few impressive young and precocious twenty-somethings on the show over the last two years because I love getting the millennial perspective on life. I like young people and as a parent of two teenage boys and two soon to be teenage girls, I truly want to understand what makes the next generation tick. What is important to millennials? What is the lens through which they perceive their environment? And how will this perception frame and shape the world they will soon inherit and steward into the future? But let’s face it – at 48 I'm likely older than Jake's father. So is there really anything (anything at all?) that this 23 year old (or any 23 year old for that matter) could possibly teach me? Maybe I'm being a snob (probably). But it's a question worth asking, isn't it? What kind of insights could such a young person possibly have that would legitimize a book of any legitimate merit or substance?

and really being centered in our purpose i believe is one of the cornerstones of fulfillment in a life well lived that was jake ducey and this is the rich roll podcast The Rich Roll podcast. Thank you for listening. Thank you for subscribing on iTunes. Thank you for spreading the word to your friends. Thank you for checking out my newsletter at richroll.com. And thank you for clicking through the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. Thank you so much to everybody who did that over the holidays for all your kind of gift purchases

and all of that. That really helped us out a lot. And I appreciate it very, very much. All right. It's 2015. What does that mean? Resolutions. You're thinking about what can I do differently? What do I have to let go of? How do I take my game to the next level? Maybe that means that, hey, I should check out some podcasts that could maybe help me out. So maybe you're brand new to this. And if you are, thank you for giving this show a shot, a chance. I appreciate that. So if you are new and you have no idea who I am, well, who am I? I am an ultra distance endurance athlete. I'm a bestselling author of a book called Finding Ultra. You can find that on

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All right, if you guys know me, if you've heard me speak, maybe you're a longtime listener to the show, then you may know that one of my favorite writers is Henry David Thoreau, who's also responsible for one of my favorite quotes of all time. And that quote goes like this, the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is considered resignation is confirmed desperation. That's a pretty astute observation. And if it was true in his time, I would have to surmise that it's probably even more true today. But what does it mean exactly?

Well, one interpretation of it, one way of kind of distilling it down to its core is, what if the path you think you're meant to be living isn't your path at all? What if the path you think you're meant to be living isn't your path at all? It takes a little mental gymnastics to sort through that. And it took me decades to kind of navigate this mental Rubik's cube. And it's only now at age 48 that I feel like I'm getting any handle on this concept whatsoever, but not so with today's guest. Let's meet Jake Ducey. Jake's a guy who at 19, after a car accident while drunk, had a bit of an epiphany. And that epiphany was that maybe, just maybe, the road to happiness, the road to fulfillment

might mean something different for him than the promise of the American dream paved by that well-trodden path of pursuing good grades and being a good boy and trying to get into the best school and chasing after that secure career path. And it's an interesting story. I mean, Jake just up and walked out on a collegiate basketball scholarship. He quit college and he pooled what little money he had and he just lit out to travel the world. And along the way, he just lit out to travel the world. And along the way, he chronicled his journey and the insights it provoked, distilling them down into a book that he titled Into the Wind. And despite being turned down by every single publisher, nonetheless, at age 19, he self-published this book. And without any marketing budget whatsoever,

or any publicistist or any team, he still managed to self promote it up into Amazon's top 300. And as someone who has authored a book, I can tell you that that is no small feat. That's a big accomplishment. So from there, Jake got a book agent, he landed the mentorship of Jack Canfield, which in and of itself is an amazing story. Jake, Jack Canfield, of course, is the author of the Chicken Soup for the Soul series. He sold like, you know, 800 bazillion books. Jake went on to become a TEDx speaker and became the youngest person to land a motivational book publishing deal at a major publishing house, Penguin Tarture. And the result is the book that came out this week, a book called The Purpose Principles.

And this is a book that draws on the stories of success, the stories of failure, and the common threads among some of today's most successful and influential people. And Jake really kind of throughout the course of this book outlines his plan for living your best life in a changing world. And I love that because that's really the theme of this show, right? And I love that because that's really the theme of this show, right? So if you're a longtime listener to the podcast, then you know, I love getting the millennial perspective on life. I had more than a few young and precocious enterprising people on the show. And I love young people. And as a parent of two teenage boys and two soon to be teenage girls, I really want to understand what makes the next generation tick. What's important to them?

What is the lens through which they perceive the world? And how will that perception frame and shape the world to be? The world that they will inherit and that they will steward over the next, you know, however many years. But I got to say this. years. But I got to say this. I mean, I wouldn't be honest if I didn't raise a certain question that bugged me when the prospect of interviewing Josh arose. I mean, come on, let's face it. I'm 48 years old. Is there really anything, anything at all that a 23 year old, let alone a 19 year old could possibly say that I could learn from? And, you know, I don't know, am I a snob that way? Maybe. But let's face it, it's a real question. I mean, come on, right? I mean, what kind of life

experiences or insights could such a young person have that could be distilled down into a book that would actually help inspire and educate myself and people in my generation? I will say this. I was pleasantly surprised by this kid. I really enjoyed our conversation. It's a conversation that gives me hope for the younger set. And you know, that younger set often gets a bad rap. The millennials are labeled as entitled, as lazy, and Jake is anything but that. And this is a conversation about what is really going on with millennials. I mean, what is really going on, right? Like I want to know. And it's a conversation about what is really going on with millennials. I mean, what is really going on, right? Like, I want to know.

And it's a conversation that delves into universal subjects that all young people, well, all people for that matter, should be grappling with. Subjects like, what is our purpose? How to be most fulfilled in our life? It's about the suppression of creativity in our school systems. It's about self-directed learning, the importance of mentorship, how to connect with your passion, how to propel yourself forward in the face of fear, why it's okay to feel different and why it's so important to go after your dreams because purpose is the strongest form of activism. Let's check this dude out.

is the strongest form of activism. Let's check this dude out. You've got to be stoked, man. Your book, it's coming out pretty soon, right? Yeah, January 2nd. I'm really excited. That's crazy, man. Thanks.

What's the plan? Do you have some big tour plan? I mean, you're going to do stuff with the Warped Tour, and you're going on the road. What's going on? Yeah, it's going to be a crazy year. My manager is the founder of the Warped Tour. So I'm going to be doing a lot of things involved in that from some emceeing, some speaking, live streaming.

I'm going to be covering the whole nonprofit community there. So I'm going to be doing that. That starts June 18th till August 8th. Wow. What do you mean covering the whole nonprofit community? What does that mean? Well, the really cool thing about the Warped Tours is not just like this music kind of arts thing. They have an entire nonprofit sector.

They actually help launch Invisible Children. They sign young people up. It's 600,000, 700,000 millennials between 52 cities. So they sign people up. They inform people about what's going on. They have a whole basically center of the nonprofit stuff. So, you know, my work started primarily as an activist. I was a freshman in college and really pissed off at what was happening in the world and why I was learning these stupid things about economic theory in my economics class when then I, you know, we have to create shifts and just the way money's printed through

private companies like Federal Reserve and my teacher wouldn't let me ask those questions. And I've been detained by the Secret Service protesting the Keystone XL oil pipeline. And I just believe purpose is the strongest form of activism. That's what my new book is really. Right, that's pretty cool. So wait a minute, you got detained by the who? Secret Service. What, was the president around or something? He was at Martha's Vineyard when it happened.

I've got a great picture I can show you afterwards getting loaded into the secret service. Just indulge me here. What exactly happened? Yeah, I'm writing an article about it that's going to be published on Alternet, which is a real big top 10 traffic political blogs online. That'll come out the week. My book's out January 2nd. And I was, I just, I dropped out of college. I was, went to school to play basketball as a top recruit in San Diego, dropped out

after I was really disenfranchised, traveled around the world, came back, wrote my first book into the wind in the process of wrote my first book, Into the Wind. In the process of writing it, I heard about the Keystone XL oil pipeline, which many top climatologists are saying is essentially endgame for the climate. It's one of the last largest carbon reserves on the planet. The Koch brothers, all these other people that are lobbying are putting in $50 million into pockets of politicians to pass this because they're going to profit so much on the back end. All the money, all the bitumen, it's not normal oil, it's bitumen, and it takes four barrels of clean water to produce one barrel of oil. Then they're sending it all overseas to China and other people to sell it.

It's not even going to us. The water use, is that due to fracking to get it out or how does that work? Similar to fracking in terms of destruction, but it's, and it's also similar in terms of clear cutting forests going down in the ground to get it. It is different than fracking, but it's so dirty that they need to use the water in order to extract it. And they're putting so much chemicals into it. So I found out about these things like that, and I was like, you know, what the heck?

This is a total wrong step in the direction when Obama took the podium and he said, quote, like, the rise of the sea level is going to stop. Like, I'm here to create this change. The champion of the environment and all that. Yeah, and I, you know, as a 19 year old, these guys, like these guys, like the Koch brothers, they're not going to be around in 20 years. Like they're blinded by their own short-sighted profit schemes and people like us and your children and the children I hope to have, like they're not going to have a world.

And the more carbon in the atmosphere, of course, the warmer it's going to get. And so I went out, I flew from San Diego to protest it, 350.org, put it on. Jim Hansen, Obama's chief climatologist, was there. We had a permit to protest. Where was this? In front of the White House.

Oh, okay. Yeah, and I was 19 or 20, and so this was two years ago. And they came, and we're like, yeah, we're just going to get a ticket or something like that for maybe obstructing traffic, because you're legally allowed to do that. Right. The Secret Service came, and they put us in paddy wagons, handcuffed our hands and feet, didn't read us our rights, didn't charge us with anything. We weren't able to call lawyers. There were 64 of us. Like seven, eight people were hospitalized between the three days.

Is that under like some kind of Patriot Act thing? Not the Patriot Act, but it's a new thing that Obama signed like three years ago where basically if the Secret Service is present at anything, they're allowed to take you. Basically as a threat to whatever schemes is going, whatever agenda you're obstructing. They held us for three days. Three days? Three days, yeah. Three days, never charged. Could you make a phone call or could you speak to anybody? When we first got there, some of us, not everyone, I was charged you make a phone call or could you when we first when

we first got there we were able to some of us not everyone i was able to make a phone call only about half the people were able to make phone calls i called my brother i'm like hey dude i don't know what's happening but and we weren't we never got charged with anything we never got booked they told us we're gonna keep you you're eventually go see a judge. And we didn't really know what our charge was. Dan Choi was the cell next to me. He was the first major lieutenant in the Army that actually came out as gay. And so that was really interesting because he's like, his life has been in jeopardy by doing these things. So it was really interesting.

How many people got detained? 64. Oh, okay. Wow. Were they all sort of under the 350.org umbrella? Under the umbrella in terms of 350.org organized it, I wasn't even familiar with 350.org beforehand. Now I am. Bill McKibben, of course, the founder was there. And we were sitting there and there were you know we were sitting there and there were young girls five years old with their 50 year old parents there and when the secret service came the parents were like okay you gotta get it something's happening you have to get out of here they stuffed up in these wagons mess with us like they would drive us to different jails all

through the night and be like no this one's full's full. We got to go to the other one. And just messing with us. I saw like a 60 year old guy, like just crying. Like he, he had lost all hope. Like, you know, imagine being that age and like seeing really what they could do to you. Um, they weren't giving us water. Um, we were getting like these four ounce styrofoam cups every 12 hours. They forgot one day. We didn't get any water. Really? I mean, there's this weird erosion of due process that's happening with the expansion of executive authority to act without recourse. It's kind of amazing that you could get held for three days without getting charged, without any arraignment.

charged without without any arraignment without you know it's it's it's really it's really disturbing to see kind of the form the early formation of this police state that we're moving into and the sort of privatization of of you're seeing what's happening in ferguson and all the protests that are happening right now i mean it's it's pretty remarkable if you kind of take a 10,000 foot view on what's happening, like this is not the country we were living in, you know, 20 years ago. No, no. I mean, granted, I was three years old at that time, but, you know, and to wrap it up, they told us eventually we were going to...

Keep forgetting how young you are. Yeah, 23. Yeah, they told us, you know, we're going to see a judge on the third day. We got there. They're like, all right, we waited the entire day in the main holding cell. And and they're like all right you're gonna see a judge now they put us up against the wall they hang they uncuff our feet in our hands i know they uncuff our feet yeah in our hands and they take us through the hallway we think it's to go see the judge it's the door outside and they're like see you later they just let us go so it's just a whole mind game yeah they were messing

with us so we wouldn't come back, so other people wouldn't protest. That totally backfired. It's really just about clearing you off the street and taking you out of commission for a while until everything blows over and then releasing you. Yeah, yeah, and that was a total wrong move because that was really an inspiration for me

to see the importance. I came back, couldn't get a publisher for my first book, self-published, sold really well. Penguin picked me up and I really believe, you know, to, to wrap it in is like, I really believe that when we're really standing for something, we're centered in our purpose. That's how big business is going to shift. Um, that's how things will really change when we're, when we're not at subject to everything from marketing to the agendas of big business and people that are putting millions into politicians' pockets, when we can really take a stand in our own way and find what matters to us.

Yeah, I appreciate that perspective. And I want to take it back and I want to hear the whole sort of story of how you got to where you are right now. But, but just before we do that, um, you know, I always love having millennials on the show, you know, because it allows me to kind of step into the generation beneath me and kind of try to see the world through, you know, a young person's eyes. Cause you know, let's face it. I'm like old enough to be your dad, even though I don't feel like that. Um, and you know, millennials get a bad rap. I mean, I've talked about this before on the podcast, but it's sort of like, Oh, the entitled generation, you know, the generation of instant gratification, they don't want to work hard. They expect everybody to just kind of, you know, cater to them and all this sort of thing. And,

and my experience with young people, and it's a self-selecting group because it's the people that are attracted to what I'm doing, the people that are attracted to me and what they're doing. But I see a lot of people like yourself who are really concerned about the world, who are sort of pissed off and feeling disenfranchised by the way that the generation that preceded them has sort of treated the environment and treated the economy and how the government is running. And with the transparency that the Internet brings,

there's a level of kind of awareness and activism that I didn't have when I was 23 years old, and that's what I'm seeing in people like yourself. So sort of walk me through your worldview, like what you see and like what you see in other people your age, like what's going on with the 20 somethings out there, man. Yeah. Firstly, I'd like to, you know, acknowledge you for, you know, your interest in young people. Cause you know, there's a lot of people like yourself that have a really high level of

influence in the world, have podcasts, have shows, have radio shows. They don't want anything to do with young people. So, you know, I really respect and appreciate that. And I have a different stance. I think that they're, you know, they always talk about how we're so disengaged. And I think it's because young people see through a lot of the crap. Like we saw our parents, one out of like two families getting divorced. We saw our parents, one out of two families getting divorced. We saw them fighting over money to work at a job they didn't want to be at. I was in fourth grade, I think, when 9-11 happened.

And I remember the next two years being a kid and the news was on and they were live streaming, bombing other countries. Like, that's what we grew up to. And like, young people before were really conditioned to the world, I believe that we have a sense of what's real and what's not. And I think that there's not other alternatives being shared. And so I think that's hence such high levels of ADD, ADHD, depression, teen suicide,

so much alcohol use excessively in colleges, drug overdoses. It's like there's not being, fortunately, I was blessed enough to find a route out of it. And I think, unfortunately, a lot of young people aren't finding those routes and the media focuses on those people, but I feel like older generations can do a better job of emphasizing. And so I think young people get the picture, even if they're can't have a debate about politics or the education system, they'll just, they'll summarize it like this. Yeah, it's bullshit. Yeah. I mean, there's a, there's a, there's almost like a level of x-ray vision, you know, that I think people your age have. And, you know, for, for me, I'm 48,

you know, my parents are baby boomers, you know, they grew up in the fifties and that was sort of the post-war generation where it was the first time where it's like you could get you know even if you had a blue-collar job you could buy a house you could buy a car you could raise a family you could put you know you could like you could take care you could meet your needs and have like a good life and there was an expectation that every generation that follows will kind of exceed the level of the generation that preceded it. Like you can do better. Right. And, and, you know, I think my generation was the first one to kind of believe that buy into that, but then get to a certain point and go for a lot of people, it's like, wait a minute, you know,

is this, why am I not happy? Or this isn't really working, but I'm, but I'm already like, you know, I'm already like a grown man before I'm having this realization that, you know, maybe this isn't the direction that i want my life to take whereas you guys right from the gate are like seeing a world where things like job security you know that's just not it's just not what it was like it's not a world of like you get a job and you work there for a long time and you you know save money and retire like that's not even part of the mental calculus. Like we're in this, we're in this like independent contractor, you know, kind of part-time employee, four hour work week kind of situation for people that are your age. Like that's the way you kind of perceive professionalism, right? Yeah. Well, I, I definitely would agree with that. I think largely young people think the idea of retirement is a hoax. It's like, why would you? Well,

it is a hoax, but, but you're, I mean a hoax, but we're just in denial about it. You guys see it immediately. And young people are like, why would you spend an entire life working at something that you would want to retire from? Why wouldn't you just find something you didn't want to retire from? And so there's definitely a shift in those type of philosophies. And I think also, I read a couple of things I thought were interesting. My generation, millennials are the first that are expected to make less, earn less, and have less than previous generations the first time. And also, I was looking recently at a really big Gallup poll, and 76 percent of people that were uh polled um are these are not just millennials are actively disengaged from their job and like 35 percent of them are totally unhappy

and like i think people just really recognize that and And the kind of, for our work week, entrepreneurialism, do it as little as you can to find other things outside of work, I think is a product of, we're not being given appropriate opportunities within the institutions and establishments in order to find things that are actually gonna fulfill us rather than ways that they say are gonna make us money so we can accumulate things. And I think since there's not those things,

that's naturally what happens. It creates a disengagement, a disenfranchised of a generation, which is what we're seeing is happening. And I think that older generations, mainstream media specifically, doesn't recognize that component and they're like well why aren't they buying into this well because it's not working you know and so i i think that's really what's happening even with people that are in school fortunately you know i was a i i don't know i just decided i was had enough and i dropped out and traveled and that served me really well but i think even the people in traditional paths, they know it's not what they want to do for sure.

Right. And I think at the same time, there's a level of activism though. Like there's an interest in getting involved with, you know, NGOs and the three 50.orgs of the world. And, you know, I know people that are getting advanced degrees in permaculture and young people working on organic farms and things like that that I would have never considered when I was your age. That is interesting to me, and I think when I look at the culture, I wonder what would it take

for there to be kind of rioting the streets like there was during the Vietnam era? What would have to happen? Because for the most part, even like we have food on the table, the direct TV works, there's a wifi connection, you know, and it's like, so as long as that's intact, it's very easy to just be like, well, everything's good, man. Like I, you know, I can't be bothered with like getting involved in anything because dancing with the stars is on TV or what, you know, whatever it is. So I, you know, and I

kind of contrast that with the interests of people that are your age, kind of the things that are coming out of your mouth, what I'm seeing as a result of Ferguson and all the kind of writing that's going on right now. And I think you see cracks in the fiber of the social fabric that's kind of holding all of this up and it's showing its stress points, its fracture points right now. And it's going to be really interesting to see where it goes. And I think, you know, what does that mean to somebody who's 23 years old? Like, you know, how is that affecting your decisions about what you want to do with your life? Yeah, no, it's not really a question, but I totally, I totally agree with you that it's not

a question. And I also, I totally agree. I think it's more than just showing a bit of cracks. I think people are totally seeing this is going, something's about to give, something's about to totally blow away. And I think we're on the verge of, and I don't think that it's just going to, And I think we're on the verge of, and I don't think that it's just going to, the riots are going to continue because there's not an emphasis of the feelings of the people that are rioting, both in the streets or emotionally rioting. There's no emphasis by the, there's no empathy by the establishment. empathy by the establishment. And I think the more and more young people see that, the more and more force is used, the more anyone can see that that's a sign of real weakness and a lack of stability within the system. And I think the more and more of those violence things happen, the more and more people start to awaken to things. And I, I, I think that the more and more companies like, um, Penguin and all these companies start looking to younger people. Um, you know, I I'm blessed to

be one of them, but there's so many more of them that are getting the opportunity to create success untraditionally. I think that's the time when young people start to disengage more and more and they see, look, he did it, she did it, that person did it. So you had said something about when will more and more young people see this as a sign in order to leave these traditional paths? I think the more and more, a few people start, it's the domino effect. Right. So, all right, well, it's a domino effect. So, all right, well, let's take it back. You're growing up in Encinitas.

You kind of got like a little bit of a Sean White thing going on with the hair and the flying tomato look a little bit, right? I mean, that's the community. I know Encinitas well. It's a beach town. It's a beautiful place to grow up. It must have been a nice place to be a kid and go to the beach and skateboard and play basketball and all that kind of stuff. Right. Yeah. It was, it was incredible. Yeah. One, one time recently when I was back in Encinitas, I was in the sauna and this guy in the sauna thought I was Sean. I was like, no, I'm not

man. He cut his hair. Don't you know that? Yeah. So it was a beautiful place to grow up. And yeah, I feel so grateful for the opportunity to be able to go outside in December and to just have a lot of people that were active. Sports were a big part of my life growing up and gave me a really strong foundation that I've applied to other areas of my life since then. I grew up traditionally in terms of at the time my dad was a salesperson for, you know, big software companies and he traveled two to four weeks out of the, sometimes I wouldn't see him for four weeks, you know, he was traveling a lot, doing his thing. He was drafted by the Cubs out of high school as a catcher, all American, went to USC, played baseball, blew out his knee, six foot four, good looking sales guy, you know, making good money as a 25 year old.

And I saw how unhappy my parents were since I was a kid, you know, and that always had an imprint on me, but I followed traditionally, played sports, did really well. I was MVP of one of the top leagues in San Diego. We were top 50 in the state in basketball. And I was following that route. I thought, you know, I'll go to college, get a degree, make a bunch of money. Well, who wouldn't, you know, it's like play basketball in college. Like that sounds pretty good. You know, when you're a kid, that sounds like a good deal.

Yeah. So you end up going to college for your freshman year, but it didn't last long before you were like, this isn't for me. And actually, I tore something in my knee my senior year of my IT band. Ironically, how uncommon that is. I tore my IT band, and I had to have surgery because it was just crazy inflammation. And so we found out it was torn after the season. So I had surgery.

I was out for nine months. And I started to think a bit going into the end of high school. Is this what I want to do? Get my knee all better and then lose them again in four years just to get my degree. I was never a good student. And I decided to decline a couple little bit bigger schools, some like Chico and Cal State Monterey and go to a smaller school Cal Lutheran the coach told me it was going to be an opportunity to do a little bit more I wasn't. Cal Lutheran out in Thousand Oaks? In Thousand Oaks yeah yeah so yeah dude super nice everything and I thought it'd be a great opportunity to do more things and we had to we were required to be up there three months before school started and

they called it shoot around, but it was mandatory practice. And as soon as I got there, I realized it wasn't what I wanted to do. And then once school started, you know, it's, there's this, I believe there's a suppression of all creativity in, in a lot of creativity in school. And I read one of my articles from my book releases, Why I Learn More by Dropping Out of College. I was going to study business. In econ class, we weren't allowed to talk about economic disparities. We weren't allowed to talk about why we can't audit the Federal Reserve.

That's how my first book starts, me asking my teacher why I can't audit the Federal Reserve. So all these things i try to remember somebody who was on the podcast oh it's my friend evan rock he goes the federal reserve is about as federal as fedex yeah i know isn't that the truth man so i'm everyone else is in the class is trying to learn the book and i'm like this is class like why can't we talk about things that are going to affect our generation look at this debt look at that. My teacher's like, basically like, come with me after class. He sits me down and he's like, clearly, you know, you have this intellectual curiosity and you can be a great student, but in class you really need to focus

on the textbook. You can go really far. I'm like, I don't want to go really far. I want to know what's going on. And that was how it was. No, it's not. And it's really sad to see, you know, and then general ed classes, which in my opinion are, it's a total waste. It's really sad to see why would I, why would I need to know how fast a brick falls off the third story of a building or like what the circumference of the earth is and these things that are like on our tests. And it was just really sad. I felt super stuck. And I remember I did a presentation in my economics class on how the North American free trade agreement isn't actually the free trade agreement. And it's just a way for us to exploit third world countries. And I got an A plus on it. And I was like, I'm never coming back to class again.

And I just left. And I started reading, somebody gave me a book, like first like Eckhart Tolle, A New Earth. Someone gave me like Jack Canfield's The Success Principles. And I thought they were stupid. And I finally read them and they changed my life. It changed everything about my life as a freshman. My dad started showing me about how money's printed and, and a lot of government corruption and economic disparities. And I was like, what am I doing? And that's, uh, that Ted talk by sir, uh, what's his name? Ken Robinson. Yeah. Watch Ted talk ever about, cause you mentioned, uh, education killing creativity. I mean, that's as big as I think it's called that education kills creativity and so all those things really you know it's hard to be in a plate it's a lot easy it would be been a lot easier if i if i wasn't

starting to question these things um and i was did you feel alone like were you the only one i mean it's kind of like, it's kind of a conservative. Super conservative. Super conservative, right? So you're, you know, you're kind of hippie-ing out on everyone. Yeah. My hair was still bust, and I decided then I was going to grow it out. And I was a big partier my whole life.

I started getting really, first time I did cocaine was a sophomore in high school. I just happened to be really good at basketball and things didn't affect me. I flipped my car four times 400 feet down a ravine when I was drunk, different things like that. And when I got into college and I started reading these books and started asking questions and looking into myself,

maybe what is life all about? I never asked myself that. And that was mind blowing. And that's what made me not want to go party and go out. There's still a lot of parties at CLU and places like that. But I felt so isolated that the only thing I started doing was reading and writing poetry, actually, which turned into books eventually. The brooding sort of Jim Morrison type. Yeah. Ralph Waldo Emerson is my guy. He's your guy. Yeah. Well, I watched your TED Talk. You reference him. Oh, cool. Yeah. Yeah. So that

was a big man to be in there and feel so, I felt so alone. But at the same time, it was crazy to see that everyone else was noticing. My old friends are like, whoa, you look like really good. You look really happy. You look really different. And so it was, my path felt reassuring. Right. So what do you think, so it wasn't like there was one moment where you woke up and said, I got to live my life differently. It was just a gradual process of kind of realizing like, hey, my shoes don't really fit so well right now. Yeah, it was a gradual process and the ultimate straw it was a really gradual learning on my own self-directed learning is what i call it

and what happened was one day i got in a huge fight with my economics teacher in front of the class like i was like really mad and i went home i slammed the door i'm never going back again well i could see he was just trying to direct you to the textbook and you wanted to have some kind of yeah i wanted to like i wasn't talking conspiracy theories i want to talk about like the debt and like the federal reserve and like how so like how do you think we that my generation solves these problems like we're learning these things to go work for these companies but like what if these companies aren't around anymore it's like, what?

And the class is even arguing against me because they want to get an A on their paper. And I just realized it literally was not conducive to my learning. For other people, it may be great. Well, there's a difference between learning and formalized education or getting a degree versus like a thirst for knowledge, like true knowledge. Those aren't always, you know, simpatico, right? You gotta like be on the program. Like you gotta hit these beats and move forward. We got to take this test and then

you take the next course. And that's different from just a general desire to kind of know how the world operates. Yeah, no, for for sure it was like when i realized like the difference between like specific knowledge and general knowledge and i was like why i don't want to be in this place for general knowledge and like i was at the time really looking into a lot of different um world events and i was like well if the economy fully collapses and like whatever happens and the world really goes into shambles, there's a third world war or whatever, I'm going to be so mad at myself if I'm stuck in this class. So I thought I was going to quit basketball in school at the same time.

I called my dad and my dad was like, dude, you should do what you want to do. Really? My parents were divorced. Yeah, my dad. So he was down? He wasn't like? Super down. Wow.

Because my dad found out like eight years ago, everything in the corporate world, everything he was doing was total BS. Yeah. So he had his own disillusionment and was, that was his way of saying like, I don't want this to happen to my, to me. Yeah. Interesting. Wow. Yeah. He went pretty cool. Super cool. My dad, my mom's great too. My dad is such a unique father. He battled with a lot of depression and wondering what he was doing and excessive alcohol just to battle so he could keep on the grind. And he knew he didn't want that for me. And he's like, you know, worst comes comes it worse go back to school like go travel and

that's what prompted me to get a backpack no map just cruise around basically and just kind of see what would happen which right so you did like this sort of nomadic like uh you just just get a euro rail pass or something like that and bum around or i didn't go to europe yeah i had a little money saved and the cool thing about, um, college, what's that? I was going to say you went to Guatemala. I started in Guatemala. Exactly. And you know, I w I didn't want to go to that many places with other, uh, white people. And like, I just wanted something really different that would really, uh, put me in a place I'd never been before. So Guatemala was where I started.

It's like on some level, like a search for something real and authentic. Yeah. To like get away from the veneer of this society and consumerist culture. Yeah, it was for me at the time. And, you know, when I look back at it now, I think there's just as much realness here,

you know, as there is in Guatemala. You know, we're having, I think there's just as much realness here, you know, as, as there is in, in Guatemala, you know, we're having, I was looking for authentic connection, communication. You and I are having that right now. I have it with a lot of people in my life, but for me at the time it was where I needed to go. Um, I definitely don't believe the answer is to travel. Um, especially after, you know, I came to my conclusion, um, after falling off a cliff in Indonesia and seeing my life flash before my eyes and realizing it's not about the next ticket I get or the next location in space and time. It was really about finding that place within me and bringing that to the world. So I definitely try not to put the message out there. The answer is in travel.

What you learn in recovery is in travel yeah well like what you learn in recovery is uh you know it's called a geographic like where you're trying to escape your reality but the problem is you bring yourself with you you know it's like your external reality is different but you're still the same person i think travel is a great thing for young people to do especially uh you know kind of growing up in the kind of enclave of a place like southern california's very easy to see, be very provincial. And I know a lot of young people that are like, well, I would never live anywhere outside of LA. And they think everywhere else is terrible and sucks. And I'm like, you need to go live other places, you know, and I've had a great opportunity to do a lot of travel over the last couple of years. And you just get perspective, you know, and I

think that perspective is important. And I think young people should live in different places, but I agree with you. That's not the not the solution you know the solution is internal it's like you read eckhart tolle like he's basically telling you everything you need to know to get in touch with yourself and develop that greater relationship with you know who you truly are you're you're more authentic version of yourself and and to figure out how you're going to express that in the sort of three-dimensional physical figure out how you're going to express that in the sort of three-dimensional physical world in which you're, you know, living and breathing. Yeah, no, for sure. And it was funny too, because I was reading all these books and I

conceptually understood it. I prided myself at the time of knowing every quote you could like possibly know, but I wasn't applying it. You know, you heard in my TED talk, I was really realizing the difference between learning't applying it. You heard in my TED Talk, I was really realizing the difference between learning it and living it. There's a big difference between that. You see that online on Twitter and stuff like that. It's really easy, or on Instagram, it's really easy for people to put inspirational quotes up.

That's cool and everything like that, but I also feel like it's kind of lazy. It's like, oh, you did something by saying that, but is that really getting people to rethink things? Are they really changing? I mean, it's positive, it's good, but at the same time, I don't, you know, I'm like, quote yourself. Yeah. And I definitely believe there's a difference between living an inspired, an inspired life for sure is a totally different thing. And so it was really ironic for me to go to Guatemala, Australia, through Indonesia, Thailand, and see the manifestation of these things I was reading about. I read, you know, that happiness is internal and that things aren't going to make

you happy. But when I saw kids on the ground that were happy and they didn't have 25 cents, saw kids on the ground that were happy and they didn't have 25 cents they literally had nothing to see it the manifestations of these things the examples of these things i was reading about was like a big part of my journey while i was traveling and going through australia slept on the beach you know all these different things like that being finding freedom in uncertainty. I before could tell people quotes about them, but to actually experience them was really what I needed until I fell in Indonesia and these locals were taking care of me. What exactly happened? In Australia, I decided to go to Indonesia.

I was in the airport, and my flight was delayed like six hours or something. And I was wanting to go. The flight was going to leave at midnight Australian time. No, no, it was going to land at midnight Indonesian time. And so they called us up and I'd just been lying on the ground on the floor. And I went up to the thing to check in and I had lost my wallet. It had fallen out somewhere. So I had my passport and I went up to the thing to check in and I had lost my wallet it had fallen out somewhere so I had my passport and I had like I don't know 20 US dollars or something like that but I lost like my wallet with like my cards with anything yeah I lost my driver's license I still have my passport I decided to get on the plane anyways and just go to Indonesia and just see what happened.

That's pretty ballsy. I was laughing. I was like, this is one of those things where I was like, I'm 19. What can really happen? Just walk to some beach and sleep on it. Find a coconut or something. No, I met these guys, locals that hung out on the curb and sold stuff. They try to sell stuff to tourists.

They thought I was lying. They're like, hey, come here, come here, buy this, buy this. And I was like, well, I lost my wallet. And they're like, just laughing at me. And we connected. And they took care of me, took me into the projects, fed me every day. They got me a place to stay from their friends. They picked me up every morning i sat on the curb ate with my hands with these locals spent all my time with them helped

them try and sell stuff to white people that wouldn't buy it and stuff like that and they wanted to take me to their home island and to their favorite quote favorite waterfall and we were climbing up it was pouring rain and and of course there's not trails like there are at malibu creek you know and they're just we're just climbing up rocks and it's pouring rain big rocks moss and we got off the top crazy experience we're coming back down and i slipped and i fell and i fell off the rocks and off the side of them, basically got creviced, felt like eight, 10 feet, covered my head up. And like to myself, I was like, like, I felt okay, regardless what would happen.

Like I felt like I was doing what I needed to do in my life at the time. And right before I hit the ground, this was like, you're going to be okay. And I hit the ground and I'm like creviced into these rocks and the side streams are coming down and the side streams are coming down and stuff like that. And I'm like, oh my God, I opened my eyes finally. I'm like, okay, I don't think anything's broken. Like I'm hurt, but nothing's broken. I opened my eyes and I roll over and one of the guys named Ari jumped off after me. And I started crying. Literally. It was like most incredible thing someone had done for me in my entire life. Literally, I was just crying.

I was like, holy crap. And he couldn't get to me because I was creviced. So he jumped down to try to help you? Yeah, he jumped off the rocks. We were climbing down off the side of the kind of cliff rock thing that we were climbing up to try and get me, which I had fallen off of. Right. And like that just, you know, it was 10, 12 feet down on rocks in pouring rain.

Like it's not dirt. You just could have slipped in and hit his head and that would have been it. Yeah, it would have been it. And so I started crying because it was so crazy. And he couldn't get to me because I was stuck and a couple of the other guys were up on top and I couldn't jump up to him and eventually after five ten minutes I was able to climb up high enough where basically they were able to like levy me back up and I got back up there and like it was just crazy to see like just an inch one or two the other way and I could have

been knocked out cold on the ground or dead and out here like away from my parents and everything that I loved and like missed out on the opportunity to really give my gifts to the world and like what was I doing I was going to travel around for two more years, go all the way through Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam. Like it made me really wonder like, what was I doing? And like, I knew I was okay. And like, of course they didn't. And like, they're breaking up all these fruits and making medicines and cleaning me and like massaging me. And like, I canceled, I was going to go all the way through Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, like I said, and I ended with 14 days silent meditation in Thailand instead and decided to come home and write my book and really try to stand for something. Right.

Interesting. So that really was a pivotal moment. I mean, like in retrospect, looking back on that experience, you know, what is the, like, what is the thematic like takeaway when you look at your life? Like, what did you draw from that that has sort of informed the first book and the book that's about to come out? What are the principles that you're divining out of this as a young person? Yeah, what I really took out of it was for me personally,

I believe the most important thing in life is to really is to really find our gift and and really take a stand um to to bring ourselves into this world and for me I knew I had a story which became a book inside of me um and I I really believe that right now like one of the most important things that we can do as as people is really start to uncover more of who we are, what we're really about and what we really stand for. And I started to uncover those things. And I really wanted to share that with, especially with other young people that like, it's okay to leave the prescribed path and it's okay to really go after your dreams. And like, it's okay to like feel different and dreams and it's okay to feel different.

And different things like that was really what I wanted to share with the world. And what I took out of it was like, it wasn't about getting a certain level of fame or money or the perfect woman or whatever it was. It was just really about finding that place within ourselves. And when we find that place within ourselves, some people call it God, some people call it love, some people call it was, it was just really about finding that place within ourselves. And when we find that place within ourselves, some people call it God, some people call it love, some people call it spirit, people call it self, heart, whatever, finding that place and really projecting that

into the world. And like, I believe that's what self-realization, self-actualization is. And to me, that's the most important thing in my life is like, is self-actualizing myself to the greatest degree I can to really contribute to this world that we talked about earlier. That's really falling apart in a lot of areas and really being centered in our purpose, I believe is one of the cornerstones of fulfillment in a life well lived. That's beautifully put, man. Thank you. And, you know, I think that it's scary. It's scary to confront somebody and say, you have a gift and your job on earth here is to express that more fully.

You know what I mean? For a lot of people, they're like, I don't even know what you're talking about. You know, I'm just trying to, like, pay the bills. disenfranchised that they don't believe that they have a voice that has value or that they deserve to, you know, sort of live this life of their dreams or that they have a gift. Because I think people equate that with something like, like a genius level talent. Like that's not what you're talking about. You're talking about whatever it is that makes you uniquely you, that's what you're here to express. Yeah. And I think that, you know, what I, you're here to express yeah and i think that you know what i in my new book that book over there the purpose principles i i cite a lot of like

unfamiliar stories of familiar people and i i've found a lot of times it's like we think it's this our purpose or our passion or whatever our place is, some grandos, huge thing, writing a book, going multi-platinum with an album or something. It's so much little men. I believe at the core, what we really need is more people who care about one another and more positivity and love that's shared in the world. And that's on such little things like it's like how much of more of a difference would it make like i sometimes i walk into the to the store and like when i talk to the cashier it's like i can see in their eyes how much it means because nobody does that for them right and little things like that just like the ways that we can, you know, for whatever, for holidays, like a way that you can go give back to someone.

Like really little things. And I think that what we find is, what I found at least, and a lot of the people that I speak with, is they really find that they feel most alive when they're finding a way to really share their happiness or finding really a way to to give back and I think that when Pete when more and more of us realize that somebody else cares about us and that we're validated and that we're loved like we're gonna help other people find our power and find our places and it's not it doesn't mean it's writing a book like, or whatever it is, like that's not everyone's place. Just little things. I don't know what gift Mother Teresa's was other than that she like cared about people a lot.

Like, you know, and I think that those types of things on, it's easy to over, we have a world that focuses on the big things and our media focuses on the big things. And Jay-z sells a million bajillion copies and we see all these things this person sold this this person did that and those little things i think you know are are really important one time i got i had the honor of going with um tom shady act that ace ventura yeah i got to go with him to go. He's really an interesting guy, man. I got to go with him to, he delivered 250 bicycles to the fifth grade students at Foster Elementary in Compton for Christmas. And I got to go with him to drop them off. And what he said to them afterwards is he

had all the kids come out and it makes me tear up every time. He had all the kids come out and it makes me tear up every time he had all the kids come out and he got, we got all the bicycles out and he's like, I just want you to know that I'm not giving you these so you can have a bicycle. I'm giving them to you because I want you to know that we care about you and that you matter. And I think that the more we can do those for other people, the more we'll find that we ourselves matter. And that, you know, we'll find that the ways we can care more for ourselves, which will create more of like that freedom from the stress. And, you know, I think that the way we'll be made, as Laird Hamilton told me one time when

we started taking those steps. I think I like to share those because when the word purpose and passion and those things, goals get brought up, we think it's this grand dose thing. But even when we're on the daily grind and we can't step out of, or we think we can't step out of, you know, the nine to five grind, Like there are ways where we can either, if you've always wanted to make an album or a book, for instance, spending, Stephen King used to write for three hours every single morning before he'd go to work. That's how we got started. But then there's other things just like on the weekend, go in and see how you can, you know, share something with someone. Well, and it's never been easier to put out your creative product to

the world. The sort of channels of distribution have been democratized and it's open to you. But, you know, I love what you said. I love that story about Tom Shadiac and the bikes. I mean, that's beautiful. And really, you know, the takeaway for me from that is that fulfillment is in the giving, you know, it's in the service. And when you can get out of yourself and your problems and what you want or you need, and you sort of invest yourself in what somebody else needs and serve that end, that's when, you know, fulfillment and happiness can enter the equation. And it's not like happiness like rainbows and unicorns. It's like feeling good about yourself because self-esteem comes from

performing esteemable acts. And for most people, it sounds like a burden, but it's actually a joy when you make that a practice and it, it infuses your life with a level of purpose and, um, and value that you can't get anywhere else. And that takes you on your own journey. I mean, I think, you know, in your TED Talk, you quote Emerson with that, I don't know exactly what he quoted. Do not go where the path may lead. Instead, leave the path and make your own trail. Well, there's that one.

But there's also, like, if you take a chance on your dream, the future will take care of itself, right? It's sort of like stepping out in faith and knowing, like, you know, I'm just doing this because this is a good thing to do. Like, I'm not doing this because this is part of, like, you know, step one of ten this because this is, this is a good thing to do. Like, I'm not doing this because it's part of like, you know, step one of 10 of the, how I'm going to get to the thing that I want to get that I think is going to make me happy. It's just, this feels right. And I'm doing this now. And then that has its own energy. I also really liked how you said feel in my book.

I talk about how we think our feelings. I think I feel this instead of really going with our feelings. And I think we've created such like a rational, a rationalized quote unquote, logical mind world where everything, especially for men too. It's not really like, we're not really encouraged to like take actions based on our feelings especially like career choices for real what i mean so yeah um and and for those that are listening that don't know like just to bring it

back to tom chediak for a second he's a incredibly successful film director he directed ace ventura and like all these huge you know comed, comedies, uh, made, you know, bazillions of dollars lived, you know, as, as large as, as you possibly can in giant mansions and all of that. And, you know, had a sort of crisis of conscious, like a spiritual crisis where he was realized like this, none of this is making him happy. And he had to like reevaluate his life. And he just basically got rid of all of his possessions, moved into this trailer in Malibu, and downsized his life, and made a documentary about it called I Am, right?

It's called I Am? Yeah. I can't remember. Yeah, it's a beautiful documentary. I'll put a link in the show notes for you guys to check it out, because if you haven't seen it, it's really worth watching.

He's an extraordinary dude. I'm trying to get him on the podcast. That'd be rad. But that's cool. And the message really is like, all these things that you think are going to make you happy, I'm here to tell you because I've lived it, that's not the answer. Yeah, it's really beautiful. And I also thought it was unique to know that his dad founded St. Jude's. His dad wanted children's hospitals. His dad wanted to be a doctor. So originally, he also followed his feeling and ended up creating this gargantuan success.

And of course, he realizes, as you beautifully shared, that it wasn't the answer. But I thought that was interesting, too, that originally, he just followed that feeling for sure. Right, right, right. So, all right. So you come back from your travels and you're like, I'm going to write a book, right? Yeah, that's what happened. Yeah. Well, I, in the ostentatiousness, the audacity of this young person, right?

Yeah. What got into you? Uh, 14 days, silent meditation, falling off the cliff, 14 days, silent meditation was profound. I, where was it? Where did that go down? Thailand in a a it's called northern insight meditation center um i'm not i don't have any type of uh institutionalized spirituality or religion or anything like that and it's a technically a buddhist place but they let you go in like you don't need to be buddhist to go and that was really profound

and i had an experience where i saw my whole life saw like this voice told me what i was supposed to do i could see my book done i could see all these things and i was like that's it i'm going back how many days in like that was the fourth day 12? Fourth day. After three days of tears and thinking I was going to hop over the fence in the middle of the night and leave. Right. And that was really profound. I, you know, just also a little background on me. Like I failed junior English class in high school.

I got a 1400 on my SATs. If there wasn't a word for least likely to write a book in high school that was this guy i cheated on everything uh isn't like 1400 well they changed the it's out of 2400 now okay yeah yeah it used to be 16 yeah it would have been that it used to be out of 16 that sounds pretty good yeah no i got i got like you know uh on the lower side of not a failure, but nothing good. I came back. I taught myself how to write along the way while I was traveling before I left and after by retyping The Great Gatsby because I heard Hunter S. Thompson did that. That's how he learned how to write.

Retyped it? Yeah, retyped it. Literally just read it and typed it? Yeah, put it next to the computer and just typed it. That's how you figured out how to write. Retyped it? Yeah, retyped it. Yeah. Like literally just read it and typed it? Yeah, put it next to the computer and just typed it. That's how you figured out how to type? That's how I figured out how to type fast. That's how I figured out how to describe things the way that I appreciated them described. I like the way F. Scott Fitzgerald would describe things.

I like the way he would describe American culture. I like the way he would describe American culture. I like the way he described people. I like the way that he wrote, the message that he shared, everything about it. It was just in the same way that if you want to be a reggae musician, you're probably going to learn Bob Marley. I wondered, once I heard Hunter S. Thompson, that's how he learned how to write. Well, why don't we apply that to books? like well why don't we apply that to books so I just like just practice like getting in the flow of someone who has you know uh great Gatsby's like one of the quote-unquote according to our culture the one of the greatest speeches pieces of literature ever so I just like tried to you know

get some practice typing something that was apparently so profound that really for me when I read it really put, really put me there. I really, the description was incredible, everything about it, the way he described characters, and everything was really profound to me. And that's kind of what gave me the space in order to write. I had no idea if it would ever pan out. I ended up, I just pressed the keys down, and it just started flowing, and wrote this book about my journey and like these these topics we've been all discussing um um from the world to this type of discovery things and and put the the couldn't get a publisher no

one would publish right so you hit the pavement with this thing you're knocking on lots of doors getting tons of no's, right? Literally knocking on doors, yeah. And it's like to the point where it was like the only reason that people didn't get mad is because I was a kid. I had that working for me. Right, you could sort of like rely on just pretending to be a naive kid and get away with all this stuff. But like somebody my age they would just be they would not it would not go well i would not go well yeah and uh everyone said no

i covered my wall in uh affirmations to be published by a certain publishing company you know that i i don't want to mention they're one of my they were my favorite company met that went over to the founder's house. I was for sure, I thought they were publishing me. And then they told me no. They told me I should self-publish it and I didn't have a platform and I wasn't famous and all those things. I had no Facebook page or smartphone. And I was so disheartened and every literary agent told me no. This is a cool story, but no one wants to hear a 19-year-old's memoir that no one's ever heard of.

This will be great once you're famous. This will be great. I'm like, I'm not writing this to be famous. You're too young to write a memoir. Your life hasn't even started yet. Yeah. And so what ended up happening is I heard about one other agent that I had on my list. I never contacted him because he was the biggest agent that I had on the list and that I knew of in the category of books.

Kind of counted myself out. And someone told me where he lived. And I printed the manuscript. And he lived near where I grew up. And I went to his front door with flowers and a handwritten note and, uh, and I knocked on his door and, uh, like he, him and I hit it off. And, uh, two weeks later he wanted to represent me. Wow. And, um, what do you think it was like, what, what, what tipped him? I mean, he's, you know, he was the most unlikely of all these agents, right?

I mean, but like, was he just taken with this young person who shows up with flowers and seeing like, oh, there's potential here. Yeah, he took it as you're 19. I represent people in their 60s. If you're 19 now and you can write a book in 40 years, we're going to have something really special. And if you have the stupidity to show up at my door,

you're probably going to do a lot of other ridiculous things that will work well. He also really connected with the fact that I was young. There's not any really many other young people. There's people that write to young people, but not very many that are young themselves. A lot of different things like that, that he really connected with. I think he appreciated the fact that I wanted it so bad. Like this wasn't a business opportunity for me. Like I, you know, it wasn't at all, it's starting to work out great now, but like, you know, it was not. And he appreciated all those things for sure. He really, I think he was just, he was taken aback that I was 19 and like I was, I had

enough confidence or just like fake confidence, whatever it was at the time to show up. And he's become like, you know, like a, uh, another father type figure to me since then. And two weeks later we had a deal for him to represent me. No one would still take me even with him. So I had to self publish. Right. So even though you had this agent, he still couldn't get you a public deal. Right.

He couldn't get me one. Everyone said, no, self publish, show us, you can do it. And like, I was like, I'll show everyone, you know, I was like 19 like 19 so i was like i was still a little bit you know out there and uh and so i self-published the book and everyone told me like you know most books uh as you know only sell like the average is like 250 copies like if you sell 3 000 copies like you're in the top 10, 15%. Because people don't read anymore. Yeah.

See like the Amazon rankings and all that. It's like, actually you, you don't have to sell very many books. And I think also like people think that the publishers are going to do it for them. And so, yeah,

we can do it. We can do it. I have a whole other podcast. Yeah. Right. And so I take ownership and responsibility for, I mean, taking responsibility for your path is, is a big part of your new book. But you know, when you write a book, whether you're self-published or you have a publisher, you still have, it's still, you're, you're the one who's going to have to get out and hustle. Yeah. And, and I really, my agent told me that from the get go. And he told me like,

Yeah, and my agent told me that from the get-go. And he told me, like, look, if you can sell 1,000 copies in, I don't know, a year and a half, that would be great. Everyone told me, kind of expect to sell 100 copies. Don't be disappointed if this doesn't work. And we sold 15,000 in 12 months. And I went door-to-door. I did literally to strangers' doors. So your dad's a salesman yeah literally i went to strangers doors i had doors i had a guy tell me i was like you're not afraid to knock on someone's door are you i know i was totally afraid man i think that's the

thing like i was totally afraid but i did it anyways um larry hamilton wrote the forward to that book and i got to interview him before it came out. How did you hook that up? I emailed him, and he answered. I think it's so overlooked. People don't think that people check their email, so no one sends them. I think it doesn't actually get to them. That's the big secret is I think it actually,

in most cases, it does. Yeah, it does. They just choose whether they're going to respond to it or not. Yeah, it does. And he did the interview interview and I cried afterwards. And it changed my life to see this guy that is so honored as this man among men. And he says he's scared all the time. And I really took that into heart.

And the book did well. I met Chad Canfield, who I read four years ago and gave that TED Talk. That's a great story, too. We're going to get into that, but let's stick with Laird for a minute. Yeah, let's do it. So you just went, what, did you go over to his house and interview him? Or like, you just, how did that work? Yeah, I went over to his house and I interviewed him.

And I went to his place up in Malibu. And I, he had, I got nervous the night before because I saw on his Facebook he was in Tahiti. I'm like, did he forget about my interview? Like, what the heck? And so we drive up there and Gabby's, his wife, is like, you know, hey, like he's going to be a minute or two because he fell into a reef last night in Tahiti. And like comes down like his whole arms like bandage and uh and i he it was like gonna be a 20 30 minute interview and we ran two hours oh wow that's cool yeah it was so cool and like i told him i was like i don't care i don't want

to talk about surfing like i want to talk about everything else. And it was crazy to hear from this guy the ways. The first thing he said to me is, my favorite quote is by Henry David Thoreau. Massive men lead lives of quiet desperation. No, no. It was disobedience is the true foundation of liberty is what he told me. And that was crazy, man. I think I was 19 or 20, you know? So to have that opportunity at that age, um, and really get the, uh, assurance from like life or

whatever the universe that like I was on the right path was really big. Cause you know, it was definitely scary. And it was like, I learned so much from that from from that experience like he grew up you know it sounds like you're familiar with this story like growing up no running water um having nothing and wanting to surf and like teachers literally said like you can't do that you can't eat your surfboard like would make fun of them and they'd always tell him you can't eat your surfboard and um his he was so poor he couldn't get a surfboard at the time of course they're not like how they are today but he first learned on on a surfboard because some guy out in the water snapped his board through half of it away in the trash can

and they learned how to surf on a broken surfboard and like all those types of things like that were so incredible to learn because I had no idea. That's what I try and share in the book is that we don't know these unfamiliar stories of how we just know here they are now. You know the myth. You know what I mean? You know the myth. I know Laird and Gabby a little bit. Gabby actually was one of the first guests on this podcast. Oh, no way.

Cool. At the beginning when we were living in Kauai and they spend their winters in Kauai. And I remember, it's funny what you said about Laird saying, you know, him admitting like he gets scared or whatever. And it was the wintertime and the North Shore of Oahu was like pumping, right? And I was like, what are you doing here like in Kauai? Why aren't you on the North Shore of Oahu? And he's like, they're mean. Like those guys are mean. I was like, what do you doing here? Like in Kauai, why aren't you on the North shore of Oahu? And he's like, they're mean. Like those guys are mean. I was like, what do you mean? Like, you're the guy,

you know, like, like to hear him say that, you know, it's like, he's a human being, you know? And we got to know some of the people that he grew up with that are his friends from Kauai. And that, that experience is really, really interesting, but that's really cool that you had that and that he was, um, so, uh, you know, forthcoming and, and wrote the four for your book. That's super awesome. Thanks, man. It was like, I wasn't planning on him writing the forward. The interview changed my life. And I was like, dude, like the, here's what happened to me when I interviewed you. Like, you know, if you really connect to what I'm about, like, I'd love it if you did that. But yeah, man, to learn all those things about him and like, see the way that he looked at the world and to hear that, like, he's like, the reason that I surf such big waves is because I get so scared when I'm in the water.

And I think those waves are too big that I, I either lock up or I paddle as fast as I can. And to like, learn those things about them was, yeah, it was, it was really an, I was, I'm so grateful for the way that I was able to kind of kickstart my, this, this new path that I decided to venture into. And it was just. Validate is validation from the universe, right? Like keep like keep going right and it kind of brings up this issue of mentorship right like mentors and and you've been pretty like solicitous of people you admire to kind of help you out i mean you just randomly get in touch with laird and the door opens and then you roll up on jack canfield at a party like you drive like you know hours and hours and like somehow weasel your way into some party, right?

And just go right up to his table and sit down and start talking to him. I mean, you got, like, you do have that salesman, like, that fearless, maybe you're afraid, but you're sort of taking the action anyway to, like, I'm going to connect with this dude. Like, this is my path. Thanks, man.

I appreciate it. Yeah, it's been, I think it's really fun to, like, try and see if those things will work out. And Jack has been, you know, definitely that's, I'd like to forward to your new book. Like he's really, he really is like, he really has mentored you. Yeah, he really has. Yeah. That's why I even wrote the book. His book's called the success principles. Mine's called the purpose principles. Um, so yeah, it really has like, I had no idea I was going to write another book, at least not that it just kind of happened after I met him and got to, you know, spend time with him. And he, he's, he really has given me a lot

of, of great, um, just what is, what is like the most impactful thing that he sort of taught you? The most directly that he taught me was so simple one time i was at his birthday party and like i finally got the nerve to ask him you know because i still i get nervous a lot and uh i was like jack what's the most important thing anyone needs to know in order to create success in their life that That's like a Tony Robbins question. And he's like, he's like, looks at me, he's like, write it down, make it happen. And I'm like, waiting, like, come on, keep talking.

And he's like, kind of looks at me and he's like, oh, that's it. He's like, you know, you have within you the ability to realize anything that you really desire or else you wouldn't you have within you the ability to, to realize anything that, that you really desire, else you wouldn't have the desire in the first place. Like that's what all my successful friends, they write things down clearly and then they just go make it happen. It's that simple. And like, I've just been writing things down and like, just crazy.

It's just like, it really works. And simple things like that indirectly, I really saw like his birthday parties are with every like people that he works with people he's been friends with for 40 years. Like he just wears a plain t-shirt around. Like he's really believes in what he's doing. And like, he's, of course he's done really well at creating the chicken soup of the soul books. But how many, I mean, how many books has that guy sold like 800 million he's on the guinness book of world records for seven books on the bestseller list at one time oh at one time yeah seven at one time yeah and he's sold so many books that's insane yeah and it was just cool to like see that like i met a lot of of authors i thought

were my favorite authors and like i totally respect they're on their own path, and we're all going through our own experiences. But I've been really heartbroken by a lot of them, that they didn't appear who I thought they were. And those things from Jack about little things like friendship and different areas like that were really profound to see what he really valued while he had so many more opportunities. I've never heard someone speak bad about him, pretty much any other author in that field. I've heard a lot of negative things. And

of course, we never know what's true and not true, but things like that. But the main thing I always take into heart was write it down, make it happen, write it down, make it happen. Well, it sounds like he's somebody who's walking his walk as opposed to, I mean, especially when you're kind of in this self-help world, you know, where there's a lot of people saying, do this to be happy or successful.

And then looking at their actions versus the words on the pages of the books that they write. And when there's dissonance there, that's disappointing. Yeah, it is for sure. And, you know, it's something that I'm always trying to check within myself, you know, like, am I with this podcast and the book that are, you know, it's like, am I, am I walking my talk? Like I, you know, I'm a human being. Like I always have to check in and go, I can do better here. Like one of the things I'm doing right now is, uh, I noticed how I'm, I'm, I, my relationship with my iPhone and like with social media on my iPhone is, is become like too addictive. Like it's just, it's not healthy. You know, I'm checking it too much when I'm driving and I hit a red light. Like I'll look

at like who emailed, you know, it's, it's stupid. Right. And so I'm like, as a result of a podcast interview that I had with this guy, Josh ship, the one that's up this week, he challenged me. He's like, take that stuff off your phone, man. Like do an iPhone detox. Like you can't, you gotta like create boundaries and rules around social media. And it's, it's, it's, it's like infecting your life in a bad way. And you can be more productive. You can be happier. You can be more present and you will be more effective in all these different areas. If you can do that.

And it's like, I didn't want to do that. You know, I was like, I like that addiction. I like that rush that comes with it, but it's like, he's right.

So I'm doing that now. Like, so that's an example of, you know, you can always do better. You can always improve, but, but trying to make sure that,

that, you know, what you're saying to the world is matching with how you're behaving you know it's hard as a human being but i think when all you have is like your word and your you know your integrity and your reputation as somebody who's like yourself is venturing out and becoming a public figure with the book, like that becomes really, really important. Yeah, no, I, so that's, that was the biggest thing that I really got. I know I've learned a lot of his little productivity and different types of strategies and things he implores like that, but just seeing the way that without him saying things,

just watching him, you know, I'm someone that I just like to be around people that I'm inspired by just so I can watch them a bit and see how they interact and different things like that. So that was a big thing for me and something I really don't want to, and I know you don't either, I don't want to in two years and five years and ten years to create a lot of success and jeopardize my backbone in order to do so because what is it you know then it's just ashes in our mouth for sure yeah it's what is the value of it then right um so when you look at kind of the pantheon of

like you know books that are out there in the genre of your book. Like, how do you approach writing your book? Like, what is it that you have to say that's different? What is your perspective? Like, how are you contributing to this like base of knowledge in a new and kind of unique way? Yeah. It's like, hasn't everything been said or has it not? Like, how do you? I think everything's, I think everything's been said. I totally agree with that. I think that what I try to do with this book and my intention behind it, Jack's success principles,

Sink and Grow Rich, his stories, what there hasn't been is stories that appeal to the quote unquote everyday person or people that are interested in the corporate world and people that my book's not about money. My book's not really even about success. My book's about how to draw more meaning into your life. And, you know, like, um, I got a good review from Publishers Weekly and one thing that they, that's good. That's not easy to get. No, it's not. But they said some, you know, they said their, their things about like,

I'm not trying to reinvent any wheel. Like, I think that there's nothing new that we need to learn in order to take our lives and our planet and our futures to the next level. My goal with this book is that I want the reader to see themselves in the same light as the world's biggest difference makers. And I'm doing that by sharing the stories of failure often between these people, their humble beginnings. And there's stories in there that I've never seen published anywhere. Stories that range from all types of people from Jay-Z to so far as how Taylor Swift got going to Gandhi to Martin Luther King to Bob Marley. So many stories that I've never heard shared together. And my goal is really to, isn't to, it's great to hit the people that are naturally read self-help books. I want a young person to read that and say like, that likes music. And they're like, I can do what Bob Marley did. I can do what Jay-Z or

Taylor Swift did. I can do what Gandhi did. I can do that. I've messed up, but like, so have they. They started from nowhere. So have I. I can influence the world in a positive way. And my goal or my mission isn't different than a lot of people. And I'm not trying to make it different. You know, it's just, it has my own energy, my own unique flavor to it. And there's definitely a lot of stories that people haven't heard in there, but it's, it's, I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel. What I do believe and something that is uniquely different in my book is that I believe if we know how to improve our own lives, how to take our lives to the next level in our health, in our happiness, in our success and our ability to reach our goals and the ability to just be peaceful and content with nothing, then we know how to create change in the world too. And when we can find that space of peace within ourselves, then we can go in the center of the storm. Then we have, as Martin

Luther King said, the ability to step out of the narrow confines of our individualistic concerns, the broader concerns of humanity. We have the ability to do those things if we have that space within ourselves. Then we're not so flustered with hearing about what's happening in the world and the activists and political movements that are so angry. And I think that when we understand how to channel our energy, we can channel our pain and upset into creative energy to create change.

And so I really believe that goals go one in the same with contributing to the world. And so if there's a uniqueness of my book, it's really that, that I to see the intersection um between quote unquote a a spiritual person and an activist and and being one in the same yeah i like that i mean you know it goes back to that sort of you know buddhist precept of you

know if you want to change the world change yourself you know if you want to improve the world improve yourself and it's it's it's weird you know it sounds kindcept of, you know, if you want to change the world, change yourself. You know, if you want to improve the world, improve yourself. And it's, it's, it's weird. You know, it sounds kind of like a selfish thing, but it's really true. It's like your ability to impact and influence others is completely contingent upon how healthy you are as a person, you know, emotionally, mentally, physically, spiritually, most importantly, spiritually, like when you're intact in those areas, then you can carry forth into the world with a certain kind of energy and non-reactive attitude towards external events,

and you have an ability to then kind of approach and tackle those issues kind of from a higher plane, right? Like not that entrenched, reactive, angry place, but more objective kind of grounded place of solution oriented, you know, approach. I believe that. I believe that a thousand percent. And I believe that that's the play. One of my chapters in my book is about Martin Luther King's speech on April 3rd, 1968, the day before he died on April 4th, 1968. And he says, I've been to the mountaintop speech. And he's like, I've been to the mountaintop. I've been to the promised land and I'm not going to get there with you. But I want to let you know

that I fear no man. My eyes have seen the glory. I will not get there with you. He knew the day before he was going to get shot, I believe. He's saying, I'm not going to get there with you. I don't fear any man. And I've already been to the promised land. For now, I'm here with you, but I'm not going to be with you for long. And the next, not 24 hours later, he was shot and killed. And I believe that that is an example of what you just shared. I think Martin Luther King was an example. And so that's a little taste of what I put into the book and what I try and put across. He was so connected to his purpose and to something higher than himself that he knew he was going to get killed. And he's like, I'm not going to go hide in my room.

I'm going to go out and keep speaking and keep doing what I feel called to do. and keep speaking and keep doing what I feel called to do. And so I think that it's one of my favorite stories, and I actually found out this morning I get to speak in Washington, D.C. at a really big event on Martin Luther King Day. Oh, wow, that's cool. And I'm going to share that story. What's the event? It is for a bunch of different corporate event companies

a bunch of different corporate event companies that are getting the day off in order to go do community service for the entire day. Oh, wow. And I want to talk to them about what could be more important than their ability to influence the world opposed to their ways to make money. And I want to cite Martin Luther King because it's MLK Day. So yeah, that's the first thing that comes to mind when you share that. I think one of the common things that comes, well, that comes into our head is like, well, I'm not MLK and, you know,

he's perfect or this or that. and, you know, he's perfect or this or that. But, you know, I share all these stories of like failure and like mess ups by so many people. Like Gandhi's wife died because he refused to let her use Western medicine. And like two weeks later, he got the same infection and used Western medicine. Like, you know, like we're not perfect. And just because we've messed up before or messing up now, I believe we can still take life to the next level. And yeah, one of the things I talk about a lot is trying to reframe or redefine how we conceptualize failure. You know, we have this idea that failure is bad. I mean, just uttering that

word has this negative connotation. And there's this false notion that people that are successful are immune from failure or have a different relationship with failure than you or I do. And it's just not true. I mean, we really need to embrace failure as an absolute prerequisite to success. Because if you're not failing, you're not pushing yourself hard enough. You've got to take yourself to that place where you can trip up and fall and then have enough sort of self-esteem to be able to say, that's okay, I'm learning from that experience and not let it devastate you and take you out of whatever game you're playing completely.

I believe that for sure. I think another great example of that that I cite in my book is Jackie Robinson, his stance on, if you want to talk about failure, you know, like people are, coaches from the other team are screaming the N-word. They're telling they're going to kill him after the game. And he went out each and every single city, each and every single day, and he kept playing and he could have died at any moment. And he went out and he kept playing because he felt this greater sense of purpose, this greater sense of passion moving him. And that ended up changing the world. And I think that that's a

great example of the repetitive failures that can happen. then I cite all types of other interesting stories. Well, I mean, a big part of your book is about how to connect with your passion and kind of unlock, you know, the theme, the biggest theme of this podcast is how do you unlock and unleash a more authentic version of yourself, right? And your book speaks to that. And I think that what I want to kind of get into a little bit before we close it down is, is, you know, how you begin that process, because you you had this epiphany on this silent meditation retreat that you wanted to write a book, it like came to you, right. And I have a pretty clear sense of what my purpose is. But for a long time, I didn't. And I think most people, whether you're in my generation, or your generation,

they don't know, you know, we're so distracted by, you know, Facebook and television and video games and whatever, you know, there's so much input coming in that we don't have enough kind of quiet interior time to really get to know ourselves enough to have an idea of what it is even that we want to express, let alone what our dream is. And maybe if we have a dream, it's really not the right, like, oh, my dream is to own a Ferrari and live in a mansion. You know what I mean? It's like, that's not really, that's not a real, that's not a legitimate, you know, like kind of purpose driven plan for your life. You know, how do you begin that process of trying to figure, solve that Rubik's cube? Yeah. If you are that, if you're listening, like someone's listening,

they're like, I don't even know, you know, like all I, I'm enjoying this conversation but like, you know, I'm in a job I don't like, I'm in this cubicle,

you know, I gotta stay in this job because this is how I'm paying my bills. I don't know how I'm gonna get out of it and I don't know what I would do

even if I didn't have to be here. Yeah, right. I know, it's totally valid and I think great ways to start at are just looking at like little goals in our life. Like, I think it's such a powerful question, um, that I, I like to ask. And that's like, what would happen? What would have to happen one

year from now for you to look back and say it was your most successful and fulfilling year yet? That doesn't mean you need to quit everything you're doing and pursue something else, but like, what are little areas and ways to like start taking the next steps? Um, especially if we're not content with where we are and like that, the answers to those things can be losing 25 pounds. Like that's a way to really improve our lives. If like, if, if it's health, things like that, you know, developing on the side, side. Like if somebody was listening and wanted to try to book and they were working a lot of hours all the time, like my girlfriend Ashley wants to get more and more into writing.

She works crazy hours. Tomorrow she works 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. The other day she left at 5.30 and she got back at midnight and she wants to get into writing. So when she has spare time, she spends two hours here and there. And like, I think little ways that we can start pounding at things and asking ourselves questions like what would have to happen one year from now to look back and say, was your most successful fulfilling year yet? Well, would it be like maybe traveling somewhere? Would it be starting to go to the gym every day or starting meditating or like

whatever it is, looking at little things like that and like building and not looking at like grandos things. I think also it goes back to what I was saying earlier about little ways that we can start. Our purpose necessarily is not like, like my purpose isn't writing books. My purpose is like, I just want to like give more, hopefully, more positivity and more hope to the world. And like that constitutes like talking to the cashiers at stores. And like today, this guy, he's like, I don't feel that good. I have like bronchitis. And like I just stopped and like gave him some time and like attention.

And like I really felt him appreciate that. And like, I think just little things like that are so overlooked. It's like, if somebody is listening to this right now and they're like, you know, they, maybe they're not whatever they're doing. They don't think it's what they want to do with the rest of their lives.

Like just looking at the little ways that we can get going in different areas, like even just meditating more, like ways that we can start giving back to people are really, I believe, really important and really overlook things. And I think the other thing is, especially for young people that I always talk about in schools, and I think it's so applicable to older people, is trying things. We kind of, once we get

in our cycle, we quit trying new things. And I think the only way to find what we like and don't like and what may become a great passion to us is to just keep trying things. If we know what we don't want to do, that's a great step to find things that we want to do more and more. Yeah, I think giving yourself freedom to try things without that pressure of succeeding or failing, just for the experience of it. And I really believe that change is possible with everybody, irrespective of circumstance, socioeconomic or otherwise, and that the ability to transcend your circumstances begins and ends

with those tiny actions taken consistently and it's not sexy to say that you know what i mean it's like you know what wake up 10 minutes earlier and meditate you know do what i did this week which was take facebook and twitter off your and email off your phone and instead i have i put where i where i used to have um twitter on my phone I put the Headspace meditation app down in the bottom dock. So what I'm saying symbolically is that's my priority. That's beautiful. And so that's nothing. It's a tiny thing.

But if I do that consistently, that's going to shift my energy, and that's going to take me in a different direction. And, you know, in this kind of clickbait world that we live in, you know, we're, we're as human beings, we have this, you know, primate brain that is naturally gravitates towards the headline that says lose 20 pounds in a week or make a million dollars in your sleep or whatever it is. And it's just, it's not real. It's just not, you know? And so if you really want to change your life, it's hard work. You have to make a decision that you are going to reprioritize certain things in your life, and you're going to have to do things that are out of your comfort zone and aren't that fun, but also don't have to be that big a deal.

It's like what you said. It's like, hey, I'm going to say hi to the cashier. Instead of checking my email as soon as I wake up, I'm going to meditate for 10 minutes. I'm going to do the artist's way, and I'm going to do the morning pages and journal. And I'm going to take myself on a one hour artist date, you know, once a week, like all of these things, they seem unrelated to whatever your goal may or may not be. But these are the things that get you in touch with who you are, that, that open these doors and set you on a new path where you will develop clarity about what it is that you really want in your life. And that will be a valid, healthy trajectory for you to explore as opposed to, you know, maybe a materialistic,

you know, kind of pursuit that something that you think you want, but really isn't what you really want or what is really best for you. Yeah, I think that's beautiful, man. I think that's awesome. So I don't know, man. Yeah, I totally, I agree. I think that's like the most beautiful way it could possibly be said is like all those little things and like the subconscious shift that happens. Yeah, people want the sexy, fun answer.

And it's like, and it's disappointing when it's the same answer, like again and again, really like, no, I want the secret answer. Tell me what the, like if I, you know, what's the VIP answer? I know. I mean, it's like, no, it's the same thing every time, man. You just have like, if I, you know, what's the VIP answer? I mean, it's like, no,

it's the same thing every time, man, you just have to take the action, you know? So what's it going to take to bridge that gap between inspiration and action? And that's what, what I'm obsessed with. Like, what is it, what is it, um, about certain people that they can be inspired and take action and other people, they read the same book, they read the same quotes, whatever, and they want to take that action. They want it, but they just can't. They can't take that step. Is it because they're not in enough pain yet? What is it that distinguishes that one person from the other?

Yeah, I think that's beautiful. Yeah, no, when you ask me the question, I'm going to go and I'm saying it. Within me, for me, I know what my truth is and I share that vocally. And then there's the other part of me is like, what about the answer that'll sound better? My goal is to get in better and better in shape. And I think a perfect example of that is like, dude, it's by going every single day.

It's not by like... It's like you go to the gym every day. You wake up early and you go running, whatever it is. Yeah, it's the same every single day. It's not by like, you go to the gym every day, you wake up early and you go running, whatever it is. Yeah. It's the same thing. Yeah. Right. And how a book is written, you know, I think those are all beautiful examples of the slow and gradual process that, that happens for sure. And that, that is, I think one of the coolest, I really talk about a lot about goals in the book, but I believe the most important part about a goal is who would become in the process, but I believe the most important part about a goal is who you become in the process.

And the only way that character is developed is through exactly what you were saying. It's about the commitment every single day and the work every single day. Then there's the opposite side of the scale, the people like Gary Vaynerchuk, who say, you only need three hours of sleep, man.

Work harder. There's a place in between for all of us. I agree. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I've sort of written on the subject of like life hacks in the past and kind of seeing my way through to the other side of that. And certainly there's plenty of, you know, sort of tips to like create efficiencies in your life that allow you to spend more time doing what it is that you're passionate about but i think that a lot of people sort of look at that that these hacks as like the

end game like that's like their whole life should just be hacking everything all the time it's like what are you what are you hacking to get to you know what i mean like the hack is not the destination it's a tool to be able to free you up to really invest yourself more fully in the thing that it is that you're supposed to be doing. Yeah. And that thing shouldn't be hacked. That's the thing that you should be investing all of yourself in. Yeah. That's beautiful. Yeah. Like one of my main goals is I really want to more and more deeply develop my meditation practice. And I don't know if there's a five minute hack in order to do it. It might just be that I need to sit longer, but I do. Um, I also, you know, while we're on that subject, like one thing I did learn from

Jack that's really served me and you know, some other people have also found value in is, um, what he calls a rule of five, you know, um, whether it's getting, our goal is getting healthier every single day or it's starting to create financial freedom from an online business or whatever it is five things every single day to move closer to that goal and when jack was an unknown author they him and mark mcterhansen on the first chicken soup for the soul book they implored this a rule of five and they got the idea because they went around they interviewed like tons of authors and marketers about how to do it. This one guy's like, if you were in the forest and you were stuck out there and like you really needed, you're going to need some wood for a fire. And there's this really big tree and you didn't

have any food. So you didn't have that much energy forever. Would you just swing as hard as you could till you passed out or would you like take a little bit more concentrated like take like five hacks and take a little break take five more hacks take a little break eventually you'd come down and they implored this rule of five thing where like five things every single day so it's like you know the other thing that can happen a lot is like maybe we know a direction we want to take even even if it's getting healthier every day. And so we go to the, we drink a bunch of coffee and go to the gym for four hours and then we're done for the next three weeks because we're so sore. You're too sore, right? As opposed to just taking the smaller action every day, taking little bites out of the apple every single day.

Yeah, I think it's a beautiful thing. And I wanted to share that because I think it's a cool thing. Yeah, rule of five is what Jack calls it I I talk about that a bit in the book so it's not as overwhelming like we're not going to get there overnight and and you know it's it's a great way to be able to stay on pace and know that we're still making progress yeah and it happens you know when no one's looking and it happens anonymously with the little things that you're doing. They don't have to be broadcast on Facebook. They're just actions that you're taking consistently.

And when you kind of crack that seal and start doing it, it develops its own momentum. It's that same thing like when you go to the gym and you start feeling fit, then you want to go to the gym and then you're going to the gym all the time. But then something interrupts you and you don't go for a week. And, and then it becomes really hard to get back. Right. Because your, your flow, your momentum is interrupted. So I think it's about creating those, those momentums in the various areas of your life that you're trying to improve or, you know, pursue goals. I believe that as well. Yeah, no, I also, I also was thinking in my head

when you're, you said something about Facebook, I think it's also as a, uh, a fun thing to do is like go out there and like do something for someone else and don't tell anyone about it. And like, I think when I've done that in my life and I noticed like how much more of that, like feel good energy stays with me instead of when I go tell some people or post it up. Then you broadcast it. It takes all the magic out of this. Yeah. I think those are great, you know, little takeaways that, you know, all those little things can improve the quality of, of they have improved the quality of my life and I believe they can help others. Right. Very good. Yeah. Like I, I recently interviewed Dean Karnazes, a ultra marathon runner. And he said, he, you know, basically a guy goes out and runs

like 30 miles a day. Like he's his whole day. He doesn't even own a car. He's running all the time. And he said, he brings a, like, you know, a bunch of dollar bills with him and he just kind of holds them in his hand and he, he puts them on like windshields on cars and he's running by just like little tokens of like you know dropping little like just like little you know things that just he's like it makes me feel great like it's just a small little thing or whatever but you know that's an example of what you're saying i think yeah that's beautiful and if you don't have any money i can't tell you how many times yeah just a smile on a nice exchange. Yeah, dude, the other day I was a little frustrated and I was walking down the street and this lady smiled at me. Dude, I literally, I was like,

afterward, I was like, oh, there it is again. And like, it just changed my whole day. And like, she doesn't know that, but like it literally changed my day just from somebody stopping to smile instead of looking at the ground. And like, I believe that the more and more that we do those things, the more and more like that's how we can create change. I agree, man.

I think that's a good place to close it down. I agree. Thanks so much, dude. I appreciate it. So cool. So the Purpose Principles coming out january 2nd right yeah january 2nd is up for a pre-order now yeah it's up for thanks man yeah it's up for pre-order now and you know online retailers and we'll be in barnes and noble and all that fun

stuff excellent so we're in mid-december right now so i'll probably post this like first week of january and try to get it up then so right when the book comes out i'd be very appreciative of that if you want to if you want to get it pick it up use the use the uh amazon banner ad at richroll.com of course to pick it up um and if you're digging on jake and you want to connect with him the best place to do that is jakeducey.com right yes thank you i said your last name right do Ducey, right? Yeah, you said it right. That's it. D-U-C-E-Y.

And you're on Facebook and Twitter at JakeDuceyAuthor. Yeah, JakeDuceyAuthor. And I've got a YouTube channel. I'm going to unroll. I've got a cool series. I've done a bunch of videos that have not been released yet. So I'm pretty excited to put those out. You're going to roll those out with the book coming out and all that exactly yeah i have a fun rollout plan for 2015 that i'm really

excited about and i think we've got some put a lot of time and into some cool videos that i'm really excited about and uh is all the places where you're you're gonna be speaking a lot too do you have like a schedule of that on your website yeah my website and the warp tour is another big one you know um especially for young people that want to go to that it's a cool cool vibe to be around and you know that's just warp.com but yeah online and facebook all those places i share all those fun stuff i'm for right now i'm definitely i decided this for this launch to experiment putting more time into podcasts and less on physical events. So I'm pretty eager for that and really grateful for the opportunity to come on with you. Yeah. Cool, man. Well, my pleasure. This is, this is great, man. I really

enjoyed it. So thanks so much. Yeah, dude. Thank you. All right. Peace. Peace. Hey, I thought that was pretty awesome. Let me know what you guys think in the comments section in the blog. Don't forget, I'm starting this new Q&A podcast format every two weeks or so. So if you have questions that you want me to answer, specific subjects that you want me to address, please send me your questions for future Q&A podcasts. All right, we're in 2015.

What does that mean? With the new year comes those resolutions. How are you going to eat better? How are you going to take care of yourself better? How are you going to accomplish those goals you've set for yourself? Well, good news is I've got a couple online courses on just these very subjects. The first is called The Ultimate Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition, and the second is called The Art of Living with Purpose. Both of these courses can be found at mindbodygreen.com. Both offer multiple hours of streaming video content, downloadable tools. They feature interactive communities, everything you need to get more plants into your active life, to dial up your diet, and also to set you on a new and healthier nutrition trajectory,

help you probe deep inside to learn more about what makes you tick and help you set the right goals for yourself and take those goals across the finish line to create sustainable long-term lifestyle improvements for yourself to ultimately raise the bar on your personal and athletic, if that's your thing, life experience. So go to mindbodygreen.com, click on video courses at the top of the homepage menu to learn more. For all your plant power provisions, go to richroll.com. We've got new t-shirts there. We have some tech teas. Finally, they're in limited supply. Don't forget to subscribe to my newsletter for a free seven recipe download to stay clued in to what's what, including pre-order incentives on our new cookbook called

The Plant Power Way coming out this spring. Going to be a lot of information about that coming to you guys soon. If you like this podcast, please give us a review on iTunes. It only takes two seconds, you guys. Come on, hook me up. And if you want to access the entire RRP catalog back to episode one, the only way really to do that is to get the free iOS app in the iTunes app store. Just go to the iTunes app store, search Rich Roll. It'll pop right up. It's free. You'll love it.

Support the show by telling a friend, using the Amazon banner ad, and by donating on the donate buttons on the site. And please keep Instagramming. I love it when you guys share the hows and the whys and the whens and the whos of how you enjoy this show. Just tag me at Rich Roll so I can spread the love. All right, we're gonna close it down with the first assignment of 2015.

No doubt you are writing your resolutions out if you haven't already. And this is all about what do you want to drop in 2015? What do you want to bring in to 2015? What do you want to express more fully in 2015? Well, the point is this, nothing changes if nothing changes. And the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. So this is what I want you guys to think about. What is going to change this time around that will make the difference between creating a long-term seismic sustainable change for the

better in your life versus a goal you abandoned by mid-February, which is basically most people's experience of setting New Year's resolutions and then abandoning them shortly thereafter. So I'm not asking you to do anything more this week than to simply ponder that question. Maybe do a little bit of writing around it. That's it. What is going to change? And by this, I mean really change. See you next week. Peace. Plants.