The Rich Roll Podcast - Your Imperfections Make You Human. Your Humanity Makes You Influential (Part 2)

Episode Date: December 11, 2014

Welcome back for Part 2 of my conversation with Teen Whisperer Josh Shipp. You haven't listened to Part 1 yet? Go do that first, then come on back. It will save me some explaining. But as long as we're on the subject, let's recap the situation. Josh is a recognized teen behavior expert well known for helping adults understand teens and teens understand themselves. He’s worked with, appeared on and/or contributed to MTV, CNN, FOX, The New York Times, 20/20, Anderson Cooper Live, Oprah.com and Good Morning America. In 2009 Josh was named to Inc. magazine's “30 Under 30″ of successful entrepreneurs. He has lectured at Harvard, Stanford, UCLA and MIT, starred in two documentary-style television series and authored two books: The Teen's Guide to World Domination and Jump Ship. If you did listen to my intro and outro to Part 1, then you know Josh challenged me to remove e-mail and social media from my iPhone as a means of increasing my overall productivity and enhancing the quality of my interpersonal interactions. Today is day 3 and as Josh so adeptly predicts in this second part of our conversation, I am indeed twitchy. A little anxious. Scattered and basically just uncomfortable with the whole idea. Why? Because I like being connected at all times. I like the buzz and anticipation of checking social media. And I can easily justify it as part of my job. But this does not mean it's healthy because it isn't. My relationship might not fall into Her (the movie) territory, but it's definitely obsessive compulsive, if not just a downright addiction. What does this remind me of? Rehab. Weathering a detox — or in this case an iDetox – isn't fun. But for me it's familiar territory. I know that if I stick with it, it will pass. I also know that the simple fact I am experiencing withdrawal symptoms is a pretty good indicator that I am onto something. Something I need to do if I want to grow. Monday night I fired an e-mail off to Josh to thank him again for doing the podcast and to let him know Part 1 was live. I closed the note with the following: “P.S. – deleted Twitter, Facebook AND e-mail from my phone. Think I’m going to have a panic attack. Tell me I’ll be OK.” The next morning, Josh replied: “Imagine having Doritos and a green drink sitting in front of you. If you're new to eating clean … you'll grab the Doritos every time, even though you know better. But when the ONLY option is the green drink, you are at first forced to go for it, but then later choose it. We should choose real humans, friends, family, etc. first. But social media is the Doritos. As sad as this is, we have slowly trained ourselves to go to real people LAST instead of first… This is a way of reprograming ourselves.” So true. I've decided to undergo this #iDetox for me, but I also know I'm not alone. This is for the millions of people out there quietly coveting smart ...

Welcome to the Rich Roll Podcast, Episode 117, Part 2 of my conversation with Josh Shipp. The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey everybody, Rich Roll here. Thanks for tuning into my podcast where each week I sit down with the best and the brightest in wellness, fitness, entrepreneurism, and creativity to help you unlock and unleash your best, most authentic self. today, because this is part two of the part one, which you just listened to. So you already heard my intro to Josh Shipp, but I wanted to make a quick couple announcements. We're running a massive sale right now at richroll.com. $10 off all our t-shirts, two for one on our B12 supplement, and $10 off our repair plant-based protein recovery blend. We've got a new shirt design. It's a Plant Power take on the California flag, which is pretty awesome with a really cool rhino.

Plus we have the Peace and Plant shirts, our other new shirts. So go to richroll.com and check that stuff out because it's sweet. It's awesome. I've got some appearances coming up, not right away, but this spring. I'm going to be in New York City for the New York City Vegetarian Food Festival, March 14th and 15th. If you want to find out more about that, go to nycvegfoodfest.com. I'm going to be at the Health Fest in Marshall, Texas at the end of March, March 27th through 29th. This is a really cool event. It's this town in East Texas, not too far from Shreveport, where it's all about plant-based nutrition. The mayor went plant-based. A lot of the people that live there are all about it. And

every year they have this event where they bring in all these amazing speakers from the plant-based movement to come in and pontificate on all things plant-based and healthy. So I'm going to be speaking at that. Again, that's March 27th through 29th. If you want to find out more information about that, go to www.gethealthymarshall.com. M-A-R-S-H-A-L-L. And then I'm going to be speaking in Sun Valley at the Sun Valley Wellness Festival in Sun Valley, Utah, May 21st through 25th. Information on that can be found at sunvalleywellness.org. Okay, you guys, today's part two of my conversation with the dynamic and compelling guy known as Josh Shipp. Well, who's Josh Shipp?

Come on, you guys. What's wrong with you? Haven't you listened to part one yet? If you haven't, well, maybe go do that first. Let's take care of that before tuning in here. You know, for a little context, if you did listen to part one and read my most insightful accompanying blog post that went along with that episode, then you know that Josh has inspired me, or well, maybe it's more appropriately said that he has challenged me to remove email and social media from my iPhone. And I got to say, I really didn't want to do that. But I was challenged. My back was up against the wall. And I think that what he was saying made a lot of sense to me. So I did it anyway.

So Twitter, gone. Facebook, gone. Email, gone. Gone from my phone. And where my email program was on my iPhone down in that little dock at the bottom, I replaced it with my Headspace meditation app. So how's that for progress? Oh yeah. And by the way, the founder, CEO, and voice of Headspace, Andy Pudicombe, is totally down with being on the podcast. We've been in touch. We've been going back and forth and we're set to sit down. I can't remember exactly when, but sometime in January to do

the podcast. So that is something pretty cool to look forward to. Anyway, I still have a bunch of stuff on my iPhone. I didn't remove everything, but hey, you know what? For now, this is a pretty big step for me. So let's just be okay with that right now. It's day one. So I'm going through this detox. I got a little bit of the jitters. I'm a little anxious. I'm a little scattered. I've got a little bit of discomfort. I had to wait in a line this morning and I had no idea what to do with my hands or what to do with myself. It's like I'm back in some kind of technology oriented rehab. It's like, oh my God, I had no idea the pull that this stuff had on me until you take it away. And I feel like the kid who's suddenly

naked in front of the whole classroom. I know this feeling. I know what it represents to me. I know what it means. And what it's telling me is that I really do have an addictive relationship with technology, with my devices. And sort of taking it away from me is really pulling the covers on my own behavior. It's really revealing the true extent and nature of my relationship with these technology outlets, with social media. And for all these reasons, I'm pretty sure that I'm doing the right thing by taking these off my phone. That doesn't mean that it's fun, but I think it's the right thing to do. So right now it's Monday morning, which means I posted part one of my chat with Josh last night. I fired off an email to him when it went live,

just to let him know, Hey, it's up. Thanks so much for doing it. I think people are going to really enjoy our conversation, just generally thanking him. And then at the bottom of the email, I left a little PS where I said, PS deleted Twitter, Facebook, and email from my phone. I think I'm gonna have a heart attack. Tell me I'm gonna be okay. And this morning I got an email back from him and I'm just gonna read it to you guys. It's pretty entertaining.

It's like, Rich really enjoyed our chat, blah, blah, blah. Ray, deleting Satan. Yes, in all capitals, yes. Expect the first week to be terrible, terrible in all capital letters. On your iPhone, go to settings, general, restrictions. That should be on and you should not have the passcode. Let your wife or a buddy set it. Also, I suggest you delete the app store. Oh my God, is he kidding? Like, I thought I had gone so far in deleting these couple apps from my phone. He's asking me to take it to the next step. This is like going DEF CON 5 nuclear. And then he says a few thoughts. One, if it's there, we will go to it. Imagine having Doritos and a green drink sitting in front of you. If you're new to eating clean, you'll grab the Doritos every time, even though you know better. But when the only option is the green drink, you are at first forced to go for it, but then later choose it.

later choose it. Watch this. We should choose real humans, friends, family, etc. But social media is the Doritos. We know better. We feel crappy and gassy afterwards, but damn it, they are too tempting. As sad as this is, we have slowly trained ourselves to go to real people last, last in all capital letters, instead of first. This is a way of reprogramming ourselves. It's a trip. Point two, we should share some of this stuff with our community. Example, the iPhone restrictions above. I think this could be a real tangible game changer for folks in 2015, 20,000, 15, 2015. And you sharing your human guinea pig journey of it will be very helpful and inspiring. So I kind of agree with that. That's what I'm doing. You know what I mean? Like this is new territory for me. And as I said, a couple of days ago, the road continues to get

narrower. And this is sort of the next evolution. This is the next thing that I need to look at. And this process will continue for the rest of my life. I'm constantly looking to kind of really objectively evaluate my behavior, what's serving me, what's not, and work at removing the behaviors that are no longer serving me. And right now, this is just something that warrants my attention and that's what I'm doing. And my plan is to share with you transparently how it's making me feel, what the results of it are, and we can kind of go through this together. You can be my therapist through this. So that's where it's at right now. There you have it. So I will, I'm going to share how this unfolds. And look, I'm not committing right now to forever.

This is an experiment. If I objectively conclude that I'm happier, more present, and importantly, that I'm happier, more present, and importantly, more productive operating this way after 30 days, then I'm going to assess this long-term. And right now, I got to tell you, I'm nervous about it. I like being connected. I like the buzz of checking social media. I like engaging with people. I like the back and forth and I look forward to it. but none of this means that it's serving me ultimately, or my higher self is being kind of enriched by this experience. And this doesn't mean that I'm quitting it or abandoning it either. I'm just creating healthy boundaries around when I use it so that I can be more productive and conscious and present throughout my day. So it's day one. I'm still breathing in and out, but like Josh says, it's your imperfections that make you human, right? So stay tuned. All right, let's tap that Josh Ship vein one more

time and pick up the main line where we left off on Monday. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment, an experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since, I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care. Especially because, unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices.

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is your partner in starting that journey. When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. We're brought to you today by recovery.com. I've been in recovery for a long time. It's not hyperbolic to say that I owe everything good in my life to sobriety. And it all began with treatment and experience that I had that quite literally saved my life. And in the many years since,

I've in turn helped many suffering addicts and their loved ones find treatment. And with that, I know all too well just how confusing and how overwhelming and how challenging it can be to find the right place and the right level of care, especially because unfortunately, not all treatment resources adhere to ethical practices. It's a real problem, a problem I'm now happy and proud to share has been solved by the people at recovery.com, has been solved by the people at recovery.com who created an online support portal designed to guide,

to support, and empower you to find the ideal level of care tailored to your personal needs. They've partnered with the best global behavioral health providers to cover the full spectrum of behavioral health disorders, including substance use disorders, depression, anxiety, eating disorders, gambling addictions, and more. Navigating their site is simple. Search by insurance coverage, location, treatment type, you name it. Plus, you can read reviews from former patients to help you decide. Whether you're a busy exec, a parent of a struggling teen, or battling addiction yourself. I feel you. I empathize with you.

I really do. And they have treatment options for you. Life in recovery is wonderful, and recovery.com is your partner in starting that journey. When you or a loved one need help, go to recovery.com and take the first step towards recovery. To find the best treatment option for you or a loved one, again, go to recovery.com. Now, I think in one second, you can make a decision to change your life. Literally one second. The process of actually changing your life, that's going to take years. But if you know that you have that willingness, be it through pain, which is how most of us get there, or through here's something more ideal I would like,

more ideal I would like, then it's just logistics. Then it's just resourcefulness. Then it's just swallowing your pride, your ego, and I'm talking about me here, stubbornness, hardheadedness of, oh, I can handle this on my own. Really? How's that going? And saying, I don't care what it takes. Yes. Yes to counseling, which I think is stupid. Yes to this thing that I thought was stupid that I didn't want to do. Like, I'm in. I'll try whatever because I don't know what I want, but I don't want this. Right. not just the wherewithal to suddenly take action,

but to raise your hand as you just did and say, not only do I need help, I want help. I think that's one of the hardest things, to get to that place where you're saying, please help me, or reaching out to somebody and being open to a different way, like setting aside your idea of what you think you should be doing and this is the way I do it and saying, well, my best ideas got me here. Maybe there's a different way to do it and allowing yourself to be so stubborn or egotistical or whatever, where we go, well, if I'm going to do it, I need to figure it out on my own, or I need to

do it on my own, or I don't need help. Or really getting help means that when I can come to the place where I have the answers and I know exactly what the game plan is and I can research enough on the internet at 2 a.m. to know what to do. But I think, and perhaps that's why it comes from a place of brokenness and pain is that it's like, all right, I've tried my way. I suck. Anybody else got any ideas?

Maybe that's why out of pain, it tends to lead towards like raising your hand, like, yes, I'll get help. But even without, please, without hitting that rock bottom, like, I think if you can humble yourself to say, you know, in order to protect myself, save myself and better myself, let me get help from other people who know more in this particular category, who can help piece together a plan, who can remind me, and this is big,

who can remind me of my commitment I made in a moment of clear thinking when I inevitably, three days from now, 30 days from now, three months from now, go, screw this, this is not worth it. Right, once the sting has faded. Yes. It's then what are you going to do? Because we'll default back to the comfortable. We'll default back to the comfortable even though it's worse for us, even though it's bad for us.

Because this new uncharted territory, there's so much fear. There's so much uncertainty. There's so much anxiety. And what is this? And I'm not good. And it's awkward. And I don't know what I'm doing. And I feel, I mean, counseling is an amazing example of that.

I wish, here's the thing I wish someone would have told me about counseling. For the first three months, you will leave feeling worse than when you went in. I wish someone would have told me that because I'd be like, all right, okay, this is normal. This is part of the process because you're bringing that stuff up not as a violin or a woe is me or let's dwell on this forever. But let's dig it up and then let's deal with it. Let's sort out what you're believing that isn't true. Let's sort out what the triggers are from this situation. And then let's move on. But

it's like, you know, if you haven't worked out forever, then you go to the gym. At first, it's going to be terrible and difficult. And you're going to feel awkward and other people are going to seem like they have it more together than you. And you're going to wake up sore the next day. And you're going to go, oh, it's not working. No, that soreness is an indicator that it is working, that the gains are to come, that if you can push, again, past that threshold, that then you'll look back and go, oh, I'm really glad I did that. Right. The moment of reckoning, the bottom, whatever you want to call it, where that armor gets stripped away and you're suddenly blessed with this level of willingness and you're able and capable of reaching your hand out and accepting help.

Once the sting goes away and those days have passed, the armor comes back up. And we have this tendency to retrospectively label that as weakness, you know, and say, well, that was my, that was weak then, but now I'm fine. Uh, but if you can stay in that place of openness and willingness and humility, most importantly, uh, the gift and the beauty of that is that is the path to ultimate strength. It is through humility. It is through that process of surrender, whatever you want to call it, that you actually develop the acumen, the skill set, the experience to be a truly strong human being.

Exactly. And I think that's what's missing in translating the process of transformation and getting people to the idea that they're capable of that. You know, I think that, you know, in your case, it's going to jail. It's all these experiences that you had. And, you know, similarly, I've had similar experiences. But if the elevator's going down, you always have that ability to get off it. You don't have to hit the bottom.

And if you're paying attention, if you're tuned in, if you're doing the internal work, then your perceptive ability is more acutely honed. And you're able to have an objective ability to witness what's going on around you, to see the signals of where things are heading. And maybe you can save yourself from that bottom and get off the elevator sooner. That's very difficult. But I think trying to get people to access that point is really kind of, you know, that's the golden ticket. Absolutely. Yeah, my big philosophy is that every kid is one caring adult away from being a success story. And it's not just because it would sound nice on a bumper sticker, but because I've seen it countless times, and I was that kid. And the Wiedemeyers were that one caring adult.

And then the counselor was. And then the big brother through big brothers, big sisters was just someone who stepped into my life once I began to raise my hand and said, we're not giving up on you. We're not going to allow you to shove us away. you to shove us away. And we see something in you that most people don't currently see, because it's so easy to just see the annoyance or the shoving away or the pushing or the prodding or the whatever. That's very surface level and understandable, but most people are going to see that. But we see something past that. We see something in you, you don't yet see yourself. And that's, I mean, it's because of the Wiedemeyers, it's because of Gary Jones, my big brother through Big Brothers Big Sisters, these counselors, these handful of educators. That's why I do the work that I do. That's

not because it's fun, though it is, not just because it's challenging, though it is, but because I want to, in scalable ways, be that caring adult, that caring voice to some kid who thinks, you know, I don't have what it takes. Or maybe, you know, I'm not, I wasn't abandoned at the hospital, but I'd certainly feel alone or I certainly feel like people don't get me or don't understand me or whatever to, to be that voice that says there, there is a different way. There is something you can do when, when you're a baby, I can't control that when I'm 17 and making repetitive, stupid choices, like that's on me, like what my did or what someone did, not on them. I've got to forgive them. I've got to move on. But what I'm choosing to do to myself, now I'm abusing myself.

Now I'm abandoning myself. Now I'm mistreating myself. And, yes, we all have reasons why we are probably justified to do such or entitled to think we don't have what it takes or to be bitter or jaded or whatever. But that ultimately doesn't serve you. I mean, it ultimately doesn't – it may feel good for a moment, but it doesn't feel good long term. And the process for you of confronting and ultimately overcoming what I would imagine was a gigantic amount of resentment and anger and fear and frustration to get to a place of peace and forgiveness with your past and the people that played negative roles in that, I'm sure was many years. You know, it's like suddenly you woke up and now you're speaking in front of thousands of people, of course, is not how it happens. I mean, I think the logical next question is, well, how did you go, you know,

is, well, how did you go, you know, what was the light bulb that went off in your head that said, I have something to say and catalyzed your kind of trajectory into teen advocacy. But I would imagine that this evolved, I know that it evolved over time. And it was one step of a teacher saying, hey, you're funny, like, let's give you space to be funny. You know, hey, you know, why don't you join this organization, DECA, you know, and hey, you're good at this. Why don't you talk to a few kids about this? It's like these, they're not even bricks in the wall. They're, you know, grains of sand that add up. And in the beginning, it was, though this was not intentional, it's certainly what I would advocate now. In the beginning, it was, you know, I eventually got inspired to help other people,

and I'll get into that. But I first had to help myself. You know, I first had to not get everything perfect, but at least pull from the lessons so I wouldn't be on stage or on page or in a book or whatever, throwing up on an audience. You know, it's great to's great to, I think the things that have hurt us the most are actually the things we can use to help others. But to help others, you have to have some perspective. You have to have some lesson. You have to have some, here's what you shouldn't do or here's what you should do or here's what I learned

or here's what I regret instead of just blah, like here's the thing. regret, instead of just blah, like, here's the thing. So that was, I mean, that was a full frontal attack that I gave my, you know, raising my hand, giving my foster parents permission to, like, release the Kraken, like, let's, like, full frontal attack, which meant counseling was going to be a part of that. Finding something productive for me to do at school was going to be a part of that. Getting a mentor through Big Brothers Big school was going to be a part of that. Getting a mentor through Big Brothers Big Sisters was going to be a part of that, meaning that if I want to eventually grow up and be a good, stable man, I need to be around guys that are good, stable men.

And mentorship is not like you've got to have the answers and you've got to have all the things to say and the answers to all these questions. Literally, one of the things I'll never forget about Gary Jones is we were riding around going to, we would cook together. He was into cooking. I thought it was super fun. And it was like this thing we would do to this like side-by-side activity we would do. And we were going to the store to get some groceries or some supplies or whatever. And his wife called. And, you know, I'm just hearing one side of the conversation, but I'm hearing how this guy is talking to his wife. He's like, in a very cool way and like very tender and very loving. And I remember making a decision in that moment. I was like, one day when I get married, I'm going to talk to my wife like Gary does. Like, I will never forget that.

I'm not saying I always do that. You know, I make my mistakes. I, you know, say things I shouldn't. I wish I wouldn't, of course. But I remember, like, that was, like, that's what mentorship is. It's not sitting down with, like, a Ross Perot, like, charts and stuff and being like, dear kid, here's the. Here's the list. Here's the, here's the list. Here's the key to life or whatever. It's like, do your thing, you know, uh, show your successes,

what you're good at, talk about your flaws, your insecurities and how you deal with that. Just do that around some kid, do that around some person who, who, who you could help. Like that moment of insanely informal mentorship meant more to me than all the kind of organized big brothers, big sister things. How he talks to Susie is how I'm going to talk to my wife one day, I assure you. So kind of full frontal attack on counseling and mentorship and kind of all these different things saying, you know, hopefully a couple of these things will help or a couple of these things will stick. And at about the same time, I was, you know, another way I was acting out was being a class clown.

I remember I got my first laugh when I was like in fourth grade. There was this teacher in Oklahoma City, very poor urban area of Oklahoma City where I was living, kind of giving this pep talk to the history class about, kids, if you're going to do something, you should do it to the best of your ability. Like, don't play basketball, play in the NBA. Don't, you know, don't just da-da-da, get a gold medal. And I raised my hand and I was like, so is that why you're a fourth grade history teacher at a poor urban school in Oklahoma City? And all the kids are like, oh. And he, though he could have understandably like snapped or yelled at me or kicked me out or whatever, he was like, touche, very nice. Very nice, Mr. Shipp.

And so it wasn't so much how he responded, but I remember at that moment kind of getting addicted to that feeling of, here I was, that short, fat foster kid, not getting picked on, not getting laughed at, but these kids were laughing. And I became addicted to that. I became addicted. That's how I would make friends and make girlfriends. It's the story of every successful stand-up comedian. Right.

And I just became endlessly kind of fascinated and addicted by it. And it was very much an ego-driven thing. This feels good. I feel like I'm getting positive attention. They don't care how I look or that I'm short or fat or a foster kid. It was very much all about me. So that, you know, by the time I get to high school, my class clown thing is pretty sharpened, pretty solid. And most teachers were very annoyed by it, but this DECA teacher, she was basically kind of bribed me and said, if you shut up during class, I'll give you five

minutes at the end of every class and you can get up and do whatever you want. Talk about whatever you just keep a claim, but you can talk about whatever you want. Start working on your act. That's right. So I was like, all right, deal. Five minutes. That's right. Yeah, exactly. It's like the opening spot, right? Right. So I'm like, all right, lady, you got a deal. And, and again, in the beginning, all very ego based, driven basis is this is about me, look at me, isn't this clever. But I think that's part of the journey of step esteem. Is it in the beginning, oftentimes, our motives aren't that pure. Oftentimes, our motives are, you know, I just, I want this for me me or, oh, I think this would impress this person. But I think it's okay. I mean, you're coming from a place of no ego affirmation originally.

Right. So I think it served you to have a little, you know, sort of good ego flow in your direction. good ego flow in your direction. And the teacher really knew it because when she invited me formally to join DECA, how she pitched it was like this. She said, you should join DECA. And I said, well, probably not, but tell me about it. She said three things.

It's an easy class or four things. She said, it's an easy class. You get out of school an hour early. There are girls and there are cookies. That's the easiest sell ever. I'm like, game on, I'm in. And DECA stands for what? It used to stand for Distributive Education Clubs of America, blah, blah, blah.

But essentially what it is is it's like a student council of marketing kits. So it's kind of have student leadership and being a leader in your school and have marketing and business stuff. Like we're going to have a school store and sell stuff and try to make money and invest that and those sorts of things. But I think it's a big lesson in there of that you have to begin the conversation with kids, particularly teenagers, with what they currently care about and then lead them towards what they should care about. Because what she was really pitching me was, hey, you're kind of this troublemaker class clown kid, but I actually think you're a leader. And when you get into this, you'll realize that and slowly develop your communication

and leadership style and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, that's a less effective elevator pitch. Yeah, exactly. Like, no thanks. So I think as long as you're leading someone towards something that's ultimately good for them, rope them in however you must. Rope them in however you need to because what they should be caring about is not what they're currently caring about.

What I was currently caring about, girls, cookies, a blow-off, easy class. That sounds awesome. So I got involved as a joke, as a blow-off, again, to protect my ego, just in case I wasn't accepted, just in case it didn't go well. I could be like, ha-ha, well, that was, oh, I didn't care about DECA. That was a joke. And then I ran for class president. Several thousand kids in the school.

My last name is Ship. My slogan was Ship Happens. I won unanimously. That's a winner. Yeah. Just because. Right. Oh, yeah.

No campaign speech, no grand vision. This kid must be president based on the slogan alone. Exactly. Yeah, I guess that's how high school politics are. So I won that. And then part of the duty I wasn't aware of of that was that I would have to kind of go around to like the middle school and elementary school and give kind of propaganda speeches. Like, hey, when you get to the high school, here's things to be thinking about and activities we have and blah, blah, blah, kind of high school propaganda stuff. So I would go and do those and I'd, you know, I'd try to make it fun and interesting and a little

irreverent and different and kind of like what I would want to hear. And teachers were like, hey, that went really well. And the kids like really responded to you. Would you want to come back and talk about whatever you want sometime? Just talk about life or whatever. And I was like, really? Serious? No. Okay.

So I just kind of began to do that. I would just pop over to the elementary school, talk to a group of fifth graders, to the middle school, talk to a class here and a class there, and just kind of pop around all these different classes. In the beginning, I'm not really sure what I was talking about, but I was trying to be genuine and helpful and trying to balance being funny and keeping it interesting with trying to have something of substance to say. I was 17 at the time or something, so I don't, there probably wasn't much there. So I was kind of doing that for a while and getting some invitations to speak at local little things in Oklahoma.

And I remember kind of having this, I was thinking about it and thinking, like, do I, so in the beginning I'm, like, kind of kind of trying to be like Zig Ziglar or something. It's like, all right, so I guess I'm kind of like going around to speak to these kids. Like, what does that mean? Let me look up speakers. Oh, there's like these, all right, here are like these people out there that are speakers. So they're the proven model. They're the proven voice. So I need to be like the young version of them. I need to be like Zig Ziglar that doesn't wear a suit or something. So that's what I'm going to be. So my content began to become just kind of very bumper sticker, successory poster, just kind of, not that that stuff isn't meaningful, but it wasn't meaningful to me. I didn't really believe it. It wasn't coming from me.

leave it. It wasn't coming from me. And I remember just thinking, this is kind of garbage. And I don't really believe what I'm saying. It doesn't really matter much to me. I'm certainly not being brave or bold. What am I like, I wouldn't want to listen to this. What am I doing? And so kind of the next little talk, I was like, screw it. I'm just going to be honest. Let's see how this goes. Right, like in every movie that you see where the politician decides he's not going to read his speech. Right, I crumple up the script. Oh, here we go. Yes, yeah, my campaign aide is like, oh, Lord, here we go.

And up until that point, this is an important point, I had never once shared my story. Never. I would never even fathom of doing such. I didn't want to seem like a whiner, a complainer. I didn't find it particularly inspiring or interesting. So why, why would someone else, I don't want to get up there and whine and complain about stuff I've gone through. Everyone goes through their own stuff. Like what's, what's the big deal? But I was like, all right, yeah, I'm going to try it. And I know this, what I'm about to say kind of sounds like one of those stories, but it happened. Um, and to keep the story very honest, I don't think it was like the first time I decided to kind of go off script. It's probably like the second or third, but one of the first sets of times. Tell my story, and it's very unpolished.

The message isn't super clear, but it's honest. It's honest. It's courageous. It's true. And a girl comes up to me, hands me a note, and says, I don't need this anymore, and it was her suicide note. And I sat in the car with it and was just, like, speechless. And it was at that moment I realized, this is not about me, this is not about my ego. This is not about being clever,

cutesy, or funny, or whatever. This is about trying to say something meaningful, bold, brave, maybe even uncomfortable, to give people the courage to face their own uncomfortable things, to give people the courage that, hey, you're a little screwed up, so am I, so are all of us. That's okay. It's all right. Like, go and face that thing. Go and get after that. Go and talk to a caring adult. Go and figure that out. Don't let it continue to haunt you. Don't let it continue to drag you down. And that is, that was another epiphany moment for me of the, okay, now I'm going to begin to approach this with a lot more earnestness and seriousness because it's not, you know, the stage is not built for the speaker. It's built

for the audience. It's not about me. It's not about being a foster kid. It's about here's something challenging I went through, so good news. The challenging thing you're going through doesn't mean you're a screwed up, terrible human being. It just means you're a human being. That's normal. We're all going to face those things. We will all continue to face those things. We will all continue to face those things. It's what you do about it that matters, which means don't think you're alone in it and don't think you're weak for admitting it and going and getting help with it. And that was a game changing moment for me. And that's when I really fell in love and became fascinated by what you could do by simply trying to, in an engaging but earnest and honest way, speak to young people. vulnerability and the authenticity that go hand in hand with that, that is the most powerful

transformative tool that you can communicate to anybody, young people or otherwise. Yeah. And it speaks to the power of story and the power of, you know, everybody has a story. That's right. And the journey towards owning your story and what that story is. Is your story a story of victimhood? Is your story a story of triumph? How do you perceive your own story?

What is the story you tell about yourself to yourself and to others? And I'm fascinated how everyone who has a story doesn't think it's that impressive. Or wouldn't matter. Or like me, like, know, I don't want to be like a crybaby. They tell it offhandedly and you're like, wait, what? Exactly. You're like, wait, that's actually really encouraging to me because now I know I'm not like a terrible person or, you know, that fear that I have, like, I'm not alone in that. Like, seriously, like, thank you for saying that. Thank you for being honest about that.

Thank you for being courageous and brave about that. It's not the obstacle or the overcoming of the obstacle. It is the humanity that is integrally interwoven into the context of that story that I think is really the value. Because that's the way in. That's the way that somebody can connect with it emotionally. If their circumstances are very different from yours, they can identify and tap into that humanity. Yeah, the details are different, but struggle and fear and insecurity and uncertainty,

I mean, that's stuff all of us face. Of course. And I think that's one of the best gifts you can give people is once you've not mastered something but figured something out or have a lesson or went through something difficult and have something to share is to be bold and brave in doing such because I think we learn far more from people's screw-ups and failures than we do their successes because when you're struggling, success feels like so far away. But when you hear someone say, you know, I was there too. I didn't stay there, but I was there too, and that's understandable, and I get why you would feel like that or I get why it would feel hopeless or the situation would feel like a dead end. But there is an option. And it's frightening. You know, it's frightening to do that. It's intimidating and it's threatening to identity and as men to our sort of cultural imperative of what it is to be masculine. But again, it goes back to what we were talking about before, which is it's true strength. Because if you can own that completely, then you're immune from whatever fear was previously attached to that.

You know what I mean? Like your identity can transcend that. That's right. It's been interesting for me, too, in kind of dealing with these demons of my past, how, again, they never go away fully. You can have mastery over them, and you learn to anticipate them. But they can, at least in my opinion, they will always still be there. And I think part of that keeps you on your game, keeps you humble, keeps you appreciative and thankful.

For me, as an example, like holidays. Like I have to be on guard. It's holidays, it's like time of family and kind of life shoving in my face. Like, look, everyone has family and you don't. Ha ha. How's that feel? So now I just know to anticipate that and to go, okay, holidays coming up. I got to be very intentional about surrounding myself with, you know, my wife's family and, you know, not secluding myself and getting around my friends

and people that I love and that love me. And just, again, anticipating that and being intentional about it instead of being blindsided by it and then finding myself in a situation where I'm downward spiraling again. Right. Because if you don't do that work in anticipation prior to the event transpiring, then you will be reactive because you can't rely on yourself to make the right choice or have the right words come out of your mouth. If you haven't like laid that sort of groundwork preparing for that moment that you know is coming. Yeah. And, and marriage and parenting has been fascinating in that right as well. My, my wife said it's like a month ago. She's like, marriage is like a mirror against your flaws.

You always had those flaws, but now there's like a witness there. Now there's like someone to see them. And kids is like a fun house of mirrors. It's just like, now they're doing that stuff that you do that drives you crazy about yourself, or they're doing that, or they're making that decision. Yeah. The, uh, the recovery, uh, analogy comes up again. They say, uh, you want to know what your character defects are? Get into a relationship. Right. You become immediately apparent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And now with kids, it's like those, now those have legs and now they're, you know, they can, they can repeat that or begin to kind of go down that path or take those things on. And I'm sure you have those moments where something comes out of your mouth that's the old version of you and you're like, oh, my God, I can't believe I said that.

Without question, yes. Yes, absolutely. And I just have to try to, in that moment, just like walk away and go, okay, what's going on? Get around somebody. Here's what's going on. Here's how I'm feeling. I know this feeling isn't right. I know this isn't true, but something's going on here.

Like why is it, you know, now that my kid is three and talking, like why is this feeling popping up? Like what is that about? talking like why is this feeling popping up like what is that about uh that i mean there's it was interesting in uh like the whole work-life balance thing that has been uh fascinating for me because the way i grew up i one of the positive yet negative things from that was sort of this, just this deep well of ambition. And part of that is like, you know, I grew up poor and without stability and without a family and this and that, and like, I don't want that. So there's some motivation, there's some drive, but also on the ugly side of it, it's like, oh, maybe if I was more clever or smarter or cuter, oh, maybe if I was more clever or smarter or cuter, my mom would have stuck around.

So there's also like this kind of other side of it of like to do something important or meaningful or big or these sorts of things. So I've always had kind of this just work ethic or drive that just for me is just like there. It's just once I found my lane, I just can't imagine ever not going. But then getting married and then particularly having kids, having to place boundaries around that was such an enormous learning lesson for me because since I'm an entrepreneur, I do my own thing. The good news is I can work whenever I want. The bad news is I can work whenever I want. Yeah, there's no on-off switch. Right. So I would have no sacred, precious time for either my work or my family. So it was

either like I was with my work and I felt bad about my family, like I was neglecting my family, or I was with my family and feeling like I was neglecting my work or not taking care of something that I needed to take care of. So for me, it's like, okay, that's going on. And then something I learned in counseling and mentorship and this and that is where your maturity is weak, you have to place external structure. You have to place boundaries. You know, it'd be nice to just think to yourself, oh, I'm not going to do that or I'm going to be more disciplined. But yes, think about it and place a boundary or a structure in place. So for me, that eventually translated into having like

very, very defined, specific work hours and very, very defined and specific family hours. Meaning to the point of when my work hours are over, I literally give my wife my laptop and she locks it away from me. I do not have email on my phone. I don't have Facebook on my phone. I don't have Twitter on my phone. Wow, that's committed.

Well, there's no other option. I'm black or white. I'm like all in or all out. Meaning, you know, it's like, we couldn't just go and have one drink. It's like, you just know where that would go. And for me, it's that sort of thing. I would tell myself that I would have the boundary, like, oh, I'll just, you know, leave it at the office or leave it upstairs and I won't go up there. But inevitably, not in a moment of like happy, happy, joy, joy family, but in a moment where it's like my kids are pushing me or there's a little like tension with Sarah and I and we need to have a crucial conversation. I would run upstairs to my blankie. I would run upstairs to the thing that felt safe, comfortable, in my control, where there was a very clear outcome.

And so now having those boundaries has been beautiful because my family knows to plan around me during those work hours. Like, hey, we'll see you later. He's doing his thing. We respect that. All good. No big deal. Because we know we can count on him come blank o'clock. And then the other side of it, I feel more productive in my work time because there's a limited window of time. It's not

limitless. It's not, you know, you can work anytime and all the time. So really, which means you can goof off and watch cat videos for several hours and then do the thing you really need to do. It's like, no, I have, I've put an intentional boundary, like a limited period of time. So if I don't get this done, it's not going to get done. You're gonna have to wait till tomorrow. Sorry, buddy, that's on you. That's inspiring because this is something that I'm going through right now, you know, very specifically in my life. And like yourself, I'm very black or white, like I'm all in, I'm an through right now, you know, very specifically in my life. And like yourself, I'm very black or white, like I'm all in, I'm an obsessive compulsive, you know, look, I'm a recovering alcoholic, man, you know, like I do ultra endurance racing, like if I'm doing it,

like it's, it's on, you know, so, and now, you know, I'm in this weird kind of, you know, entrepreneurial adventure, where I'm trying to navigate, you know, how to kind of entrepreneurial adventure where I'm trying to navigate how to kind of create this entity of conscious media and do it in a way that is

that has integrity but also is going to provide for my family and be stable and sustainable and I'm driven and I want to make it happen but also is going to provide for my family and be stable and sustainable. And I'm driven, you know, and I want to make it happen. And I'm in the much earlier phases of it than you are. And it's starting to click in. Yep.

And it's all good. But I don't have that on off switch. And I haven't done the best job of creating those boundaries. And that doesn't mean I'm an absentee dad. Like I'm around my kids and my wife all the time, but I'm very often distracted. And I have a lot of improvement that I think that I can make in that regard. And just the idea of saying, okay, at this time, like the laptop gets locked down or the idea that I would take email and Twitter off of my phone, like it's terrifying. You know what I mean? Oh, bro.

Dude, I was twitching. And that's because I know that I probably should do that. Right. You know, but I can say, I can make a very cogent, strong argument as to why I shouldn't do that. I was twitchy about it for weeks. Here was a moment I realized is I was, so our daughter, Catherine, she was a baby. And I was in there rocking her, like having sweet little daddy time.

And while I'm rocking her in my left arm with my right arm, I'm refreshing my email. Right. I'm just going, you are that dude right now. You promised yourself you would not be one day when you're a dad. Like, guess what, buddy? You're that dude right now. you would not be one day when you're a dad. Like, guess what, buddy?

You're that dude right now. The counter argument that you can make that's very convincing is, well, I could be at a job, you know, where I have this freedom so that, you know, I can be with my kids and I can be rocking my child. But implicit with that means that I'm kind of always have to be checking these. I live on social media. That's my bread and butter. This is how I'm sort of creating what I'm creating. Oh, I'm fascinated about this topic. So let's camp out for a while. So that is a rational argument, but I think it's not a helpful one

because in that moment and the hundreds that preceded it and followed it, I wasn't with either. I wasn't there with baby Katie and I wasn't there with that work. I wasn't with either. I wasn't there with baby Katie, and I wasn't there with that work. I wasn't putting out that fire. You know, if there's some big fire, you're not putting it out on your phone. It's like, all right, I got to sit down, think about this, type out an email or whatever. So I'm not present with either. I'm not being helpful in either. I'm not serving either. All that's happened is because now I've read that email, it has come in and hijacked my mind. So though I'm there with my family or there with my wife or whatever, though I'm not absentee physically, like I am checked out and I'm either amped about this opportunity or I'm, you know, upset or freaking out or stressed out about this,

this thing that's going on of like, oh, I told, you know, them that this is how it was supposed to happen. And so I cannot tell you how, you know, and maybe it's like we were talking about earlier with like running. It's like, if you would have told me that I probably wouldn't have believed you, but it's true. I cannot tell you how freeing it's been. I cannot tell you how good it's been for me as a dad and a husband. And surprisingly, I can't tell you how good it's been in my output in my work time because... That's what I need to hear. I need to hear that the output is not suffering. Yes. Because there's a limited window of time, because it's not anytime, anywhere,

there's a limited window of time, because it's not anytime, anywhere, whenever you want, you're saying like, here's a window of time. And it doesn't matter what that window of time is, just that it's consistent. And there's a defined end time that you don't compromise on. Then here's what becomes interesting. Your priority list gets real clear. Anything that is not a priority, that's maybe just something you feel you should do out of ego or, you know, because it seems like an interesting idea or it's a clever distraction. You go, I wish I could. I just don't have time. I've got limited time. These are the things that matter most. These are the things that drive without compromising either impact and income. Like these are the things I got to stay focused on. These are the things that drive, without compromising either, impact and income. These

are the things I've got to stay focused on. These are the things that matter. These are the things that I can do. And it's interesting, when you have boundaries, people that have boundaries themselves respect it, appreciate it, get it. Those that don't have boundaries, they'll try to make you feel bad. They'll try to make you compromise because that's not the game they're playing. And, man, it – How long ago did you embark on this? Okay, so probably – well, I tried several. At first it was just like I'm going to have an end date of my time, but I can still have

email and facebook and twitter on my phone and my laptop won't have to be in like fort knox or whatever and inevitably man you know it's so embarrassing to even say but inevitably i would compromise you know and i would dude i would like be out on a date with my wife and go to the stupid bathroom to check my email it's like what kind of why why am i doing that like what what kind of high am i getting from that what kind of what am i what am i wanting to be in there like you know that someone liked something or commented or we made a sale or some person i think is cool sent me an email or what is, what am I doing? What, what kind of currency do I, what do I really think that gives me? Um, so I tried these various iterations that were just me kind of being weak and compromising, like what I knew

I really needed to do. Uh, I don't mean to make eye contact with you like this, Rich. Again, with the recovery analogy, but it's like the alcoholic is like, okay, I'm only going to drink beer. Okay, I'm only going to drink after five o'clock. It's like it never ends well, right? So you're back. And this is a physiological thing. I mean, we're in this really weird time where it's not going to get better. We're only going to get more and more distracted. I remember Thurston Baratunde wrote, did it, did that experiment where he unplugged for 30 days or whatever. And he wrote about it for, I think it was wired magazine or something like that. And the extent to which he had to prepare for this event was monumental.

He had to get an assistant involved who could be tracking all these, like just to get ready to say, I'm not going to be online for this period of time was extraordinary. And then just the weathering of the detox and the acclimation to that and the physiological impact of that and everything, it's really kind of remarkable. Yeah. So let me dig into you now, Rich. So here's the thing. If you're a good-hearted dude, like I get that you genuinely are, part of the challenge in it and the kind of work that you're doing could be, you know, I want to be the kind of person who, you know, replies on Twitter and says, hey, you know, thank you for that kind email or thank you for that kind tweet or hey, you know, thank you for that kind email or thank you for that kind tweet or, hey, I really appreciate it.

But any, like, that good-hearted, genuine, earnest intentionality can be scheduled in a block of time. It could be like, all right, you know, at this half hour during the day and this half hour during the day, like, that is a time I go gung-ho and I reply to those kind emails, those kind tweets, those kind Facebook statuses, instead of just constantly kind of hitting that refresh button or whatever, which, you know, which again can suck you away from family, can be a source of, I'll have to tell you about the time I got death threats, can be an addictive source of undeserved praise or undeserved criticism. If you're doing anything public, you're probably not as good as the people who are like, oh my gosh, this is the best thing ever. And you're also not as bad as the people who are like, you're terrible and you suck. And so I think

particularly with the social media stuff, if you're doing anything public, writing or speaking or podcasting or whatever, you've got to be careful because that is an emotional rollercoaster. You get that good reply and you're like, I'm great. This matters and people like it and I'm a

good person. Right. How many downloads, you know, happened today and all that kind of stuff. And it's just, yeah, it's not productive. Man, I have to be so careful and intentional about that because, you know, it will just become an emotional roller coaster for me. Depending upon those vanity metrics that I'm looking at. I'll, you know, I'll either be like, this is great, and this is awesome, and I'm doing good work, and I matter, and therefore that day I'll be more brave and bold and more on my front foot. And then that one negative comment.

Oh, I can quote it word by word. I can quote it to you word by word. And then I get timid. Dude, then I get timid. And then I'm afraid to risk. Then I'm afraid to be bold. Then I'm afraid to say that truthful thing that I earnestly think someone needs to hear because I don't want to offend someone or I don't want to get at it. So you begin to play safe. You begin to play flat footed. So I'll tell you the story. I think it relates to all these, like, having boundaries and intentionality around your work, whatever it is that you do. So I was helping at-risk youth for many, many years behind the scenes, no press, like I didn't want any of it. Always been approached to do TV shows, like, no, I don't want to, no, no. So eventually Oprah's people were like, hey, we want to document it. We don't want it to be scandalous.

We're not going to tell you to say anything. We just think this would be inspiring and helpful. I said no, and then I said no again, and then I said no again. They just kept coming back. And eventually it was like, all right, these folks are earnest and genuine, and okay, all right, let's try it. So anyway, I did the show, an extraordinary at-risk youth, hour-long documentary. The Teen Trouble Show. That's right. My whole goal and my whole motive in the show was not – do not dare show me as like this like guy who comes in and saves the day because that's not helpful. And it's also not true. Like my whole goal in that show and my whole goal if I was walking out of this hotel room and going to work with some kid currently involved in crazy stuff, not to change his life, not to turn things around an hour through some little pep talk or something.

But this is the way television works. But right. But to push and prod and encourage and whatever, whatever means necessary to get him or her to raise their hand for help. Like that's the whole, that would be my whole goal. And that was my goal in the show. Like let's, you know, through means of encouragement, through means of let's show them the dark, ugly side of here's where this life could head for you. So through, again, full frontal attack.

Let's show them this is where it could head that would be ugly. This is where it could head that would be beautiful. Let's show them both and just get them to raise their hand for help. So it went very well. get them to raise their hand for help. So it went very well. And, you know, three, four years later, six of those eight kids are still clean, kicking ass, doing their thing. But part of that, you know, process was obviously getting these kids into recovery program because most of them were severely abusing drugs. So unbeknownst to me, we could get kids in these recovery programs that were very expensive for free because that particular program would get kind of exposure

on the show. So unbeknownst to me, there were kind of a group of people who had been genuinely, honestly abused or taken advantage of or hurt at facilities. Right. It's one of these like really hardcore, you know, hard case youth places where, you know, come and we're going to sort your shit out for you. Right. It was, it was, it could be something like that or it could be, you know, it was a great facility and, you know, just someone who was working there who shouldn't have been or who flipped or snapped or whatever, or there was abuse.

I mean, there are genuine stories out there. Just like there are genuine stories of abuse in churches or schools or whatever, it doesn't mean every school is bad. So these folks, this kind of group of people who had been, again, genuinely, honestly hurt at places like that, saw my show, and I could understand why they would, as kind of like, here's an hour-long commercial of like, go to these places that will hurt you like they did me. Most of these folks expressed their concern and criticism in fair ways. Yeah, fair ways. It was hard for me to hear, but fair. But there were some where it got crazy and death threats, and I had an FBI agent assigned to my family, and our address published on the internet and all kinds of like weird things I'd never ever kind of ventured into. You know, I had experienced certain levels of criticism, but

as anyone's platform grows or they kind of try to reach more people or help or do something more meaningful, you know, new levels, new devils kind of thing. Like there's also kind of things you don't expect that also come with that. And that was particularly, like when I could kind of isolate my wife and my kids, it was like, all right, I'm a big boy. Like I'll figure it out. Whatever, say what you want. But when it was like directly threatening right, I'm a big boy. I'll figure it out. Whatever. Say what you want. But when it was directly threatening my wife and kids.

That's terrifying. Dude, I just froze. I froze for a week. I had no idea what to do, say, how to think about it. I was just paralyzed with fear. Are these just angry people on the internet? Or are they serious? Or like, I had trouble. It was, I just don't know how to describe it other than I was just out of my mind. And how did you see your way through that? Well, I didn't for a week. I mean, I was just, like I said, just paralyzed with fear. And

I mean, I was just, like I said, just paralyzed with fear. And, you know, I didn't know how to bring it up to Sarah. I didn't want to freak her out. But I also didn't want to say, like, hey, if someone kind of fishy approaches you, like, maybe you should be on guard about that or kind of thoughtful about that. So I didn't know what to do. And so, again, kind of, all right, here's something happening. What works in the past? Get around people that know you.

Try to find someone who's been through it. So that's what I did. I kind of went to this group of guys I have that kind of sounds like a group of guys that you have. I was like, boys, I'm losing my mind. I am freaking out. I'm so scared. I, ah, ah. And I'm taking it personal. You know, what if I am a terrible human being who's sending kids off to terrible places?

Yeah, you start second-guessing your decisions. Oh, and in no way, honestly, genuinely, is that my heart? Is that my intent? I mean, my gosh, not in the least bit. But what if I've unintentionally done such, you know? Right. The whole intent is to, is to help these kids transform their lives, not to send them down the rabbit hole of something that's potentially harmful. Yeah. Um, so I eventually talked to, um, someone who had, who's been a mentor of mine who, I don't want to say his name,

but has a large public platform. And so I'm like, huh, okay, he's had to have dealt with criticism probably far worse than I have. So I called him up, told him what was going on, and then he started telling me some of his stories, and I began to immediately feel like a little bit at peace. Again, like, boy, my situation seems like so much calmer now. So like, okay, all right, this guy can relate.

And then we got into the practical stuff, which was so, so helpful. So he said to me a couple of things. He said, well, number one, there's a mindset I want to talk to you about. He said, when you get criticism and you know, this particular sliver of criticism felt very violent, very angry, but he said, when you get criticism, you tend to write the people off as haters. And that's kind of like, that's bumper stickers and t-shirts and that's like, oh, you're hating or you internalize it as these are the only people who really know what's going on. Right. Because I look at it and I go, you know, I'll dismiss all the kind words and look right at the criticism and say, oh, that guy, he knows who I really am.

Right. What if they're right? Right. Right. What if they're right? And so he said, Josh, you can't see them as haters. You have to see them as herders. These are people that are hurting.

These are people who have, not your fault, but been hurt by a particular thing. And for some reason, this triggers that in them. And so take your ego out of it. Take that it's about them attacking you out of it. and it's about them responding to some hurt in their life. Yeah, their pain body has been activated. Right. So I'm like, okay, that's not going to be easy to wrap my mind around, but, you know what, I get your point. That makes sense.

In my heart of hearts, I feel like, okay, yeah, that's on point. You know, you're right. But then, um, you know, to me, I always, to me where I get like, just jazzed is like, I want the mindset thing, but I also want like the practically what the hell do I do? So I like, okay. So I see them as hurting and I try to be more compassionate towards them. Right. But what's the action? What do I do? Because I'm melting down.

I'm freaking out. Go running. Yes, I did plenty of that. So here's what he said. He was like two things. He said, number one, I want you to get software on your computer that the intent of it is like child filtering software, so your kids can't view porn sites or gambling sites or something. So I want you to install that on your computer, and I want you to block yourself from where this commentary is going on. Because I know secretly you're going there and feeding on it, and it's not good for you.

like feeding on it. Right. And it's not good for you. So he said, for a period of time, I want you to intentionally choose to tune out that outside feedback while, and this was the thing I was like, oh, this is so smart. He says, I want you to go to that group of eight or 10 people that really, really know you. They don't know the guy on TV, Josh. They know the good of you, the bad of you, the ugly of you, the beautiful of you, like that. And you need to go like that. That's now your source of feedback. That's your comments. That's your like button.

Those are the people. Because that group of people, what they had been for me prior was like, hey, guys, speak up when you feel like my motives are off or when I'm off track. Those guys would never be like, oh, I read that article, and that was awesome. Or I watched a show with that kid, and, man, that was amazing what you did. They would never do that because they knew like that, I get that elsewhere. But once I turned that off elsewhere, I had to go to them and say, listen, I need you guys to be intentional, like when I'm on and when it's good and when I'm on point, and I need you to be intentional about when you feel like my motives are off or I'm acting out of ego or

impure motives or whatever. Like I need you guys to call out both of those things. That's great. And that was extraordinarily helpful because these are people that really know me. Like, of course I have, of course my motives can get off and I can do things out of ego or fear or insecurity or, or whatever. And who more qualified to tell me when I'm doing that than these group of folks? And also who more qualified and should I give a crap about their opinion when I do something right and pure and with the right intent than for them to go, hey man, saw that, that's what I'm talking about. Right. I mean, it's insane that we put stock and trade and, you know, comments and likes and all that kind of stuff. It's just, you know, it's nice.

It's ego inflating or distracting. But ultimately, it doesn't mean anything when you line it up against, you know, what is real, which is the feedback of the people that really know you, the real person. Yeah. And, and that doesn't, and what that doesn't mean is that, you know, you're close-minded and not wanting to improve and not willing to hear outside feedback. But sometimes you can get so addicted, as we talked about earlier, to the undue positive praise and the undue negative criticism that you'll get addicted to it, it'll cause you to shut down, or it'll cause you to have an inflated sense of yourself. And neither one of those things is good. And, you know, I mean, I have a friend who has written several books, and most of them did fine. And then one freakishly ended up becoming a bestseller.

But he was like addicted to his Amazon page. And he would call me like crying and distraught of like, how like, that's not what I'm trying to do. Some reviewer writing. Right. And then we just go off on him. And it's like, I know this guy. He's like, he so means well. He so means well. And here he is distraught and crying. And now I know in his mind, when he gets some opportunity to put his message out there,

to put his thoughts out there, he can't help but think that there's an assassin up on the roof waiting for him. And so the cost is too great and I can't go out there and I can't speak my mind. And so for him, it's like, bro, that page, that is off limits to you. Or the antidote, which is what I did, is I posted on social networks my favorite Amazon negative review of my book. I mean, there were some pretty colorful ones, which was not an easy thing to do, but ultimately was like freedom. Yeah. Here it is. Like here, I'm drawing attention to this. Like here it is, my favorite one-star review.

And that's so encouraging for other people that are writing or creating in their own right to go, okay, here's a guy that I respect whose stuff I think is interesting. And if he gets that sort of, you know, wild negative feedback, then I guess if I do or when I do is more appropriately when you inevitably do, then that's just part of the game. And that's part of the thing that, you know, we all want the result of success, but sometimes we're not willing to put up with some of these things that that's going to require, which aren't things that are always as fun and such. And to me, I just go back to, I have to place structures and boundaries in my life around those things that I know will just set me off the deep end for the sake of doing work that matters long term,

for the sake of my marriage, for the sake of my relationship with my kids, I have to do things that to maybe an outsider might seem a little drastic, maybe a little overboard. Does it really – I mean do you have to really hand her your laptop and she locks it away? I wish I didn't, but I do. hand or your laptop and she locks it away. I wish I didn't, but I do. But the principle of being conscious and deliberate about how you're spending your time, what you're letting in your filter, and creating healthy boundaries around that is excellent. And for me, the road gets narrower. Like we unplugged our cable TV. It's now, it's been a long time. I weathered the detox of that. Now I don't think about it, you know, and my life is better off.

And yeah, I watch stuff on Netflix and, but it's not, the TV's not on that much in our house, which didn't used to be the case. And this is the next evolution of that for me. And it's usually the thing like you don't want to look at. You know what I mean? Like it's like- So tell me, all right, look for, for, for, for the sake of everyone who could probably benefit from it. This is becoming the Josh Shipp podcast. Here we go. Here we go. Okay.

Um, uh, I just want to quickly thank our sponsors, uh, blah, blah, blah. Tell me, tell me what is the, like, what is on and that fear of missing out, which is illusory. You know, I know it's not real. So yeah, on some level, there's that there's an addictive response and, and the discomfort that comes with detaching from that. So as you're proud, but in the logical, in a logical context, you know the logical context, I see the value. Is the practical concern like I would miss an important email that I should respond to, or the practical concern is like I would feel not in the loop with what's going on

and that would drive me crazy? I think it's both. I think the idea that I'm missing out on something super important is an argument that I can use, but I don't know how true that actually is. Because if I am having hours where I know that I'm attending to that stuff, that stuff will get dealt with. Yeah, and I think that's an understandable, honest concern, and I think the answer to that is just intentionality and some sort of system or workflow or something. And as an example, you've got two options with Twitter. If you're someone who's a writer or a speaker or a podcaster or something,

I'm going to send out this stuff as I'm so inspired, or I'm going to set a block of time in which I decide that this week's tweets, and I'm going to schedule those to go in. And so I think you can, you know, if something can be done one-off or here and there, it can also be scheduled. So, you know, if I know, you know, folks that read my stuff, they tend to read it at 9 a.m. and 3 p.m. and 2 a.m. because of Europe. Well, then I can be intentional about that and schedule that ahead of time instead of like, oh, I got to get to that. And then with. That's no fun.

I know. I know. And then you can schedule the time to get back in there and come in and be like, oh, thank you. What am I going to do in the bathroom now? Right. Well, yeah. Well, we won't get into that. And, you know, and then even with the email thing, you, it's interesting.

You do train people how to interact with you. And if you're. Yeah. Well, the email thing, it's interesting. You do train people how to interact with you. Yeah, well, the email thing is such a beast for not just me, everybody. It's become just white noise in everybody's lives, and everybody's trying to solve this dilemma of how can I get to inbox zero, and nobody's really figured it out yet. And I like the idea of, you know, scheduled hours for email and people have in their email footers. I only check email, blah, blah, blah. I tried that. I just, I couldn't stick to it. You know, like I, I kept like spilling over into, you know,

other hours, but, but it's effective in sending a message out to everybody else. Like, don't expect me to get right back. And people, you know, respond to that, you know, with, you know, it's fine. You know, people are cool with that. Yeah, and for the most part, if, I mean, the way I've set it up is something is truly urgent. Those that would know about it have my cell phone number and then call me. But please don't unless, if we can deal with it tomorrow, like, let's deal with it tomorrow. Right. All right, man, I think I'm getting backed into a corner to commit to this.

No. No, here's what – I mean, yeah. I mean, I think it would be fun for you to just like try it for a couple days. Yeah, I think I should. I think I could. It would be good for the podcast too to like say that I'm going to do this and see what happens. Yeah, and you're going to feel twitchy and you're going to – I'm a fan do this and see what happens. Yeah, and you're going to feel twitchy. And you're going to, you know, I'm a fan of this show.

I love listening to it, so it's an honor to be on it. And I know you talk a lot about, you know, meditation and mindfulness and, you know, what am I thinking right now? Why am I going there? Well, it certainly will enhance that. Yes. Because you're removing, you know the chatter yes from that and you're and you're going to remove like uh well and you'll be mindful of why is it that i want to hop on twitter right now when i could just be enjoying the scenery or yeah what's been a moment what is going on with

me that i feel that compulsion yeah why is that like my default reaction why is that like the first thing i want to do when i get out of bed or out of the meeting or out of whatever? It doesn't mean it's wrong. It's just I think it's good for all of us to kind of check our motives, like why am I doing that and just be honest about it? Does that serve me, what I'm up to, this and that? And I get, you know, look, sometimes you can't work around it. Sometimes I have projects during the year where it's like game on like 24 hours a day for an extended period of time.

And that's just the name of the game. But I don't want to live there forever. earnest work-life balance if you're willing to be intentional and if you're willing to put structures and systems and workflows in place, not just completely abandon email and hope people will stop emailing you, but have some intentionality behind it. All right, man. I'm going to try it. Cool. Cool. I'll report back to you. All right. All right. You can be my mentor on this. No, I seriously want to hear it. Cool, man. Well, man, we've been going two and a half hours. Have we really? Are you serious? Yeah, we have.

But I can't let you go. We've got to wrap it up soon here. But I can't let you go without – I want to talk to you have made to create, you know, this enterprise that is now, you know, it's impressive what you're doing and kind of the choices, the things you said yes to and the things that you have said no to. And it kind of dovetails into this time management discussion that we've been having because it's really interesting. And so, you know, how would you articulate how would you articulate the philosophy behind your entrepreneurism? Yeah, well, the why all goes back to my childhood

and those caring adults stepping into my life. I want to be that sort of caring adult at scale, which means I can't sort of intersect with a kid one-on-one at every single moment, but I can write and speak and create products and programs that seek to, you know, genuinely, you know, my whole tagline is I help adults understand teens and teens understand themselves. So in the beginning, that started off just sort of as a service-based thing, just going and speaking at these things and doing that. And I love speaking.

It's a joy. It's fun. I make it funny but also meaningful, and it's a blast. But also about five years ago there came this point where it's like, all right, Sarah and I are talking about having kids, and I'm just getting so burnt out, not on speaking but the travel and just the loneliness that can build and just being on the – there were times where I was probably on the road 300 days a year or something. And I knew, okay, we're going to have kids, and I don't want to be that physically absent dad for sure. So I just began to ask myself, what are other ways that I can make a genuine impact and an income?

That can scale. Right, that can scale. It would be very easy for you to just be on the road and make a very good living just speaking constantly. And I was, but at a sacrifice to my health, at a sacrifice to my marriage, at a sacrifice to real, genuine, meaningful relationships at home. my marriage, I had a sacrifice to real, genuine, meaningful relationships at home. You know, and then when you get back on from the road, it's like it takes a day or two to kind of detox and not be like kind of selfish guy who just needs to figure out his own schedule,

but kind of, oh, I'm back with my wife and friends. And it was, man, it was beautiful and wonderful. But then there was a period where it was tough, and I could begin to see, like, I do not want to become, like, the bitter guy kind of doing this, and so I need to figure out something else. And, frankly, I want to reach more kids. You know, my best year I could talk to maybe 150,000 kids live. There are far more kids who I feel like would benefit from hearing some meaningful, important, inspiring, substantive messages. So the kind of the first realm into that was an online mentoring program. One of my frustrations with speaking was like, I'd go and speak and

there'd be these amazing stories from kids afterwards. But then I just think back to my own life of like inspiration doesn't change your life. Right. What are you actually leaving them with when the curtain closes? Exactly. Maybe inspiration is like, okay, I want to change my life, but like now what? Now I'm all amped up or inspired or feel that. But okay, now what do I do? And then I'd just be on to the next

city or the next school or the next thing. So I felt very frustrated with that. And I knew that it was a genuine need from my clients, meaning schools, educators, parents of like, hey, our kids really, really responded to you. It'd be great if you could be sort of a constant voice in their life. So I created this thing called a Year of Awesomeness. Each and every week, kids that are part of it get a 10-minute video that's super funny, but also very, very meaningful information about life skills, like how to gain your parents' trust, how to apologize when you screw up, just kind of those things you should learn in school, but you don't. And to me, I see myself as like the pitch hitter for a parent. It's like when you're the teen's dad, he's not always going to listen to you.

So like, hey, here's a guy because his weird sense of humor and he's a little younger, like, you know, maybe you would listen to him. So that's been enormously successful and on every way in every way. Like, uh, you know, parents are writing in saying like, this is, we're having like such amazing conversations about this material. And my kid thought I was just buying him something like stupid and dumb and lame, but he's like laughing and we're having these deep, important conversations and he's getting into it. Like, what did you, like, are you brainwashing him? Like, how are you doing this? You know, to kids saying, you know, this is really meaningful to schools using it. So that's been, that's been a joy, man. And it's, you know, we made it super affordable. It's 19 bucks a month. But it's

endlessly scalable, you know. And so I just, I love thinking through creating things like that, where, you know, it can live for a while, it can reach kids wherever, reach kids on demand about the things they're struggling with, that they need to be going, that they're going through. And I don't have to keep leaving my wife and kids to go serve this greater purpose and then wake up and go, man, I've reached all these kids, but I didn't reach my kids. Yeah. I mean, and you would think sort of a traditional media approach would be like, oh, once I get a TV show, that's the pinnacle. And then, you know, as your experience has been and others that I've spoken to, they're over it. You know, like they're like, that's not where it's happening now.

It's about, you know, to coin a phrase from another guest I've had on the show, James Altucher, it's choose yourself, right? It's how am I going to create this message and do it with integrity, control it, scale it, and ultimately have it be of maximum long-term service to the people that I'm trying to reach. I love entrepreneurship that matters. It just endlessly fascinates me because as someone who speaks to kids, the typical advice to someone like me is, okay, little kid, now you're ready to go and make some money and grow up and have a real big boy business. Now go speak to corporations.

And to me, what matters is not the modality of service, like whether I'm speaking on a stage or via video to a kid that'll watch it online. To me, it's who I'm serving that most matters. Like I need to fall in love not with speaking or presenting on video or writing a book, but I need to fall in love with a group of people. on video or writing a book, but I need to fall in love with a group of people. And a group of people that I have madly fallen in love with is young people. Like, I want to see them succeed. I love the challenges they face.

I love the dreams they have. I love the frustrations their parents face, the hopes that, like, I love that group of people. And so I would rather have the challenge of how can I build something sustainable and scalable where maybe something hasn't already existed, then let me go try to pretend to fall in love with a group of people I don't really care about. Um, so to me, that was the fun challenge is how can I build something there with these group of people that I already love and care about, but just get really, really creative and nuanced and be relentless about finding out a way to do it where it's a win-win for everybody. Uh, and, and that it genuinely

makes a difference because to me, it's, it's more about the impact than the income. But if the income isn't there, you can't sustain it. You can't put more time into it. You can't make it better. You know, we scholarship any kid into a year of awesomeness that genuinely can't afford it and shows like, no, no, I really want to do this. Like, dude, all day long we'll scholarship a bazillion kids in there. I don't care. Like, it's awesome. Very little overhead to us. And those that can't afford it or sign up for

it, great. Do your thing there. Right. And the anticipated extent of impact versus the delivery mechanism. You know what I mean? Yes. Which is the delivery mechanism should be dictated by impact, not by ego or by... And what they need. I mean, kids that really needed to hear my message, their school probably isn't going to bring me in. The school probably isn't going to see the value and bring someone in to share their story and their experience about particular things. Like those are the kids that probably need it. You know, kids that are in foster care, we scholarship so many kids that are in foster care, probably unlikely I'm coming to their school if they're even in school or between schools.

Those are the kids that really need that message and that need sort of that, you know, I just kind of think of myself as like, I'm able to be like a virtual mentor to all these kids. You know, and in the program, I, I say, look, I can't be your only mentor. I'm like the virtual mentor. Now go get someone in your community that you respect, that you look up to. Watch these videos together. Chat about it together. Talk about this stuff together.

Because I can provide both the practical inspiration side, but you need someone in your life saying like, here's what's going well, here's what's not. Let's put together a plan to improve. I'm going to check in. I'm going to encourage you when you need it. I'm going to challenge you when you need that. Man, I think that combination can be a lifesaver to parents too in this time where maybe the kid's a teen and they're kind of distancing themselves a little bit from mom and dad. It's not that the message needs to change. It's that you need to add different messengers in the kid's life.

You know, an athletic coach, like there's a great message there. And something like what I do through this year of awesomeness and then some mentor in the community. Man, when you can kind of have that combination that's in that kid's life, that's beautiful. So what's next? I mean, where do you take this from here? Like, what are the mountains you still want to climb? To me, it's all about kids and those who serve kids. So I'm like anything that is involved in that sphere. That's what I'm about. You know, how we make it sustainable as a business, like whatever, we'll figure it out. We can be smart enough and creative and savvy enough

to figure out a way to make that happen. But my motive is always first driven by like, does this serve and genuinely help this group of people that I love and care about? And if so, like, let's get into it. Let's figure something out. So a couple of things. One is that I love and care about. And if so, like, let's get into it. Let's figure something out. Um, so a couple of things. One is that I've started training other speakers, like I said, who want to speak to young people, um, through something called you speaker university. That's been like, that's really cool. I was checking it out. Oh bro. It's been so much fun and so fascinating. Um, and I love that because it's a way for me to duplicate myself. Kids don't just need to be inspired by my story or by the story of a 30-year-old white guy. They need to hear from many different messengers and many different messages.

So as long as someone has something meaningful and genuine they want to share then i love helping them figure out how to do that yeah share that because articulate their story because there's the art side of it like what do you say how do you do that well but then there's the business side of it which most people that have an earnest message that's their bigger challenge is they think if you know if i just have the right motives and if i'm just good, then this other side will take care of itself because you see those overnight success stories that are kind of fabricated. Not sacrificing integrity, but being intentional because you know the product you're giving is meaningful and matters, and people are going to thank you after they purchase, not be sorry that they did. Yeah, that's the most important thing. And I think that what frustrates me when I go online and I see all these internet marketers, it's all about how to make a million dollars online. And it's all about like how to sell a product before you've created it. And I look at all this stuff and I'm like, maybe there's some tools that I could learn from about how to

create like an online business. But I'm so turned off by that because it's backwards. You know, it's like when you say, you know, how is this going to serve these people that I really care about? That's the first question that you have to answer before you do anything. But people get so caught up in this idea of making money online. Yeah. And what they're delivering is so far secondary to that that I just can't even tune into any of that. That's right.

I can't tap into it. And the why matters so much. So if you're really pragmatic, I mean, think about it like this. The why matters so much because when you inevitably run up against those hardships, those failures, those setbacks. Yeah, why are you doing this? If you give a crap about your audience or those people you're trying to serve, you will inevitably, naturally push past those hardships. you will inevitably, naturally push past those hardships. You will naturally keep in touch with them so you have your finger on the pulse of like, what are they dreaming about and what are they stressing out about?

And you will naturally nerd out about like, what's going on? What do they need? You will just naturally do that stuff because you care about them. And I think then you can figure out the business stuff, the entrepreneurial stuff to take something that's genuine, that's earnest, that you give a care about. And then, you know, how many failures will you have until you find the thing that is a win-win, where you can make a sustainable living, but also serve an audience you care about? It may take three or four failures and modifications or whatever, but at least you care about your audience. And then when you have success, you won't be sitting across from a client or serving a group of people that you secretly despise.

And you don't care if they succeed. Like nothing makes me more like amped up than hearing about a kid who went from like unmotivated and checked out to like they're doing their thing like that that's what it's about look at me you guys should see me i'm like waving my hands around like some like old italian man right now yeah conviction about the why sets in motion everything else and and all problems can be conquered from that place yeah but i think if you don't have conviction about the why then you know the way and the how are don't they don't have conviction about the why, then, you know, the way and the how are don't, they don't have meaning. They don't carry that meaning. So the U Speaker University, people from all over the world sign up, it's mainly online training. And then once a year, we have kind

of an in person powwow where everyone flies in. And it's super fun. Oh, it's cool. Just because of the type of people that show up to that thing, like people that are like, I'm willing to learn, I'm humble, like, yes, I really want to do this for the right reason. And I try to be intentional in my marketing of like trying to weed people out that are just about the money. Like, yeah, we're going to try to teach you how to make money, but don't count on that immediately. We try to be good about that. But then from that, I've started another thing called Top U Speakers, which is basically, I looked at the music industry and like, all right, it's kind of interesting how they do that, I've started another thing called Top U Speakers, which is basically I looked at the music industry. I'm like, all right, it's kind of interesting how they do that.

Like someone will go and kind of make a successful career for themselves and then turn around and kind of help other people make a successful career. And then there's a business model and not like you're going to pay me a certain amount of money whether or not you're successful. It's like we're going to take a gamble on each other. I'm going to help you get it going. And if you win, I'm going to take a cut of that. So I've started that with – So it's incentive-based. Exactly.

With top U speakers in that, through U Speaker University, kind of once one or two people a year, I would be like, man, they're the real deal. They deserve a platform. They have integrity. They have character. They've proven work ethic. They have a meaningful message. They have a unique way of delivering it that isn't just like everyone else. And with those folks, it was like, hey, let's work together. I've got a small team that kind of manages the admin. They have like a little bureau. Exactly. Yeah. But it was essentially the bureau i always wish i could

be a part of like i and i'm not just saying this i genuinely view it as a family we have uh seven people in it right now and i would never ever want more than 12 like i just want a couple people in each category like someone who's amazing with elementary kids someone amazing with middle school high school etc but cetera. But I really view it as a family where it's not just we're booking a gig and we're going to take a percentage. It's yes, we're doing that, but we're also intentionally helping you get better at the art, intentionally helping you with your brand and seeking out opportunities and looking to open those doors. We're also counseling you through the ups and downs of success and criticism and all of

those sorts of things. We have powwows at the ranch. It's that intimate group. That's the thing that's, that's one of the things that's the most fun for me and fascinating because it's a small group of people that I'm working with long term that I get to see the ups and downs and be there for them every step of the way. And I'm at this phase in my career, I don't know if it's the dad in me or whatever, that I get more joy out of, this happened just about a month ago, I get more joy out of being backstage in an event, hearing one of my speakers out there just annihilating it, than a couple hours later when I go out there and be the same. Well, you're a parent now. I guess so, man. I guess so. Cool. Well, let's shut it

down, but we'll close it down with one final thought that I have, which is if somebody's listening and they're struggling, they feel like they're stuck in a dead-end situation with their career or their relationship, and they're grappling with paralysis about how to make that first move or what is that first step that I take. What kind of wisdom or advice could you impart? is that I hope that you've heard through this conversation that regardless of what those challenges are that you have or are currently facing, that it is possible, that a different route, a different possibility for your future is possible. And from that place, I would say a few things. Number one, try to find someone in your circle of influence or someone in your circle of influence who knows someone who's gotten out of that, gotten out of that addiction or out of a dead-end job or out of

whatever situation you find yourself in. Go to them humbly and say, here's where I'm at. I respect what you've done. I'm not asking for a handout. I'm not asking for a golden ticket that's easy. I'm not asking for a handout. I'm not asking for a golden ticket that's easy. All I'm asking is tell me about your first three steps. What, you know, looking at my situation with this career that I hate. I know the answer is not go in tomorrow and flip off my boss and quit and, you know, that sort of thing. But what should my first couple steps be? And then seek training and accountability around whatever those first couple steps are that she lays out for you.

And just be relentless about those. And get people who will call you on your stuff when you get lazy or discouraged because you will. Because I did. Because Rich has. Because we all will. So don't think you're alone in that. Don't think you're broken in that. Don't think you're broken in that. Don't think that that is an indicator that you don't have what it takes.

But get that. If you have the information and the accountability to implement both information and implementation, then I genuinely believe you'll be making progress, which is what it's about. And when you're making progress, you'll begin to feel a spring in your step again you'll begin to feel hope you'll begin to feel like thank you I'm not stuck I'm not a victim to this

I'm getting progress like something can actually happen and then that just becomes a self self-perpetuating machine yeah exactly and then you look back a year later and you're helping someone else to find their first couple steps. I love that, man.

Cool. Thank you. Josh Shipp is a man. Thanks so much. It's been a pleasure. We're breaking the time barrier. Oh, my goodness. You're almost at three hours.

There you go. We'll just chop it up into two episodes. No, I'm just putting it up. I like it. All as is, man. All right. So if you want to drive in Joshosh's lane the best way to do that is to go to josh ship.com and you're at josh ship on twitter but i can't promise that he'll

reply to your tweets i will between 10 a.m and 11 a.m pacific standard time seriously if anyone sees me on twitter after one o'clock and it's not automated like call me out yeah i did notice like i i looked at your uh your thing it's my. I just complained about this the other day. Like I upgraded the Yosemite and now like all my devices ring when my phone rings, like my iPad or whatever. Um, but I noticed you did a whole bunch of replies to people like all at the same time. I'm like, Oh, this is his chunk of time. There you go. Trying to practice what I preach. I don't always do it, but I try to. Right. All right. Anywhere else besides Twitter and your website where people should go? Joshship2Ps.com.

That's got info on Year of Awesomeness, You Speak at University, and all that goodness. Are you speaking anywhere anytime soon? Yes, I have actually three big events in November coming up, one in Washington, D.C., one in New Orleans, and one in Minneapolis. Cool. And info's on there. On your site, right? Yes, sir. All right, man. You're an inspiration. Pleasure, my man. Keep doing what you're doing, man. Thanks, buddy. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. Peace. Plants. All right, you guys, we did it. That's it. I hope you enjoyed our chat. Obviously, Josh has had a huge impact on me already.

I'm already modifying my behavior. And I really hope that he has you guys rethinking certain things in your own life. Maybe you need to reevaluate your own relationship with your phone, or maybe you need to reevaluate, recalibrate how you connect with and communicate with your teens, your kids, or maybe you're rethinking how you navigate your relationship with your business. I don't know. But I think that was a really productive, worthwhile conversation. And I hope you enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed having it with Josh. Quick reminder, I'm getting ready to

start doing a periodic Q&A podcast to accompany this interview show that I do. So please send me your questions to findingultra at gmail.com. I've already got some gems, but I'd really like to have a stockpile of some great subjects and topics to cover moving forward. So do me a solid. If there's something you want me to talk about, you've got a question that's been nagging you, you want me to answer, shoot it over my way and we'll try to work it into the show. We're gonna start doing this pretty soon.

Josh talked quite a bit about life transformation on the podcast this week, his own personal life transformation and the lives of the kids that he works with. And you know what? I got a little guidance on that as well. So check out my online courses, The Ultimate Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition

and The Art of Living with Purpose. Both of these video courses can be found at mindbodygreen.com. They're both multiple hours of streaming video content, downloadable tools, and they feature interactive communities, basically everything you need to get more plants into your active life,

to set you on a new and healthier nutrition trajectory, and help you kind of probe deep inside yourself to learn more about what makes you tick so that you can set the right goals for yourself and take those goals across the finish line and ultimately raise the bar on your personal and athletic life experience. So just go to mindbodygreen.com, click on video courses at the top of the homepage menu, and you can learn more there. And of course, once again, go to richroll.com for all your plant power provisions. Again, we're having this huge sale. It's going on through December 20th. $10 off all our t-shirts, $10 off my repair post-workout recovery plant-based protein supplement,

and buy one, get one free on our B12 supplement. So check all that out. Don't forget to subscribe to my newsletter for a free seven recipe download and to stay clued in to what's what. If you haven't given us a review on iTunes, please do that. Only takes you a couple seconds. Hook me up and get the app. As you know, iTunes only lists the most recent 50 episodes of the podcast. So if you want to access the entire RRP catalog, the only way to do that is to get our iOS app. So go to the iTunes app store. Just type in Rich Roll. You'll find it there.

It's completely free. It's completely free, and that way you can listen on your phone and you can read the entire blog post that I spend a lot of time writing that correspond to each of the episodes. You get to see pictures of what the guests look like, all that kind of fun stuff, and I make announcements there as well. So there you go. I want to support the show. Keep telling your friends. Use the Amazon banner ad at richworld.com for your Amazon purchases. It doesn't cost you anything extra. You can donate to the show if you like. There's a donate button on the homepage. And keep Instagramming. Tag me

at richroll for that. Let's close it down with the assignment. Pretty obvious, right? It's just kind of piggybacking on the assignment that I gave you a couple days ago. And listen, look, if I'm going to do this, come on, you guys. Who's with me on this? You guys got to take this leap with me. I was talking to a friend yesterday, and I was telling her about this very experiment that I'm doing. And she was telling me how she simply cannot stop checking her texts and her emails every time she hits a stoplight in traffic when she's driving.

And in L.A., it's a culture. You know, we're in our cars all the time. Every time you hit a red light, it's like, oh, boom, go to the phone. What's going on on the phone? And she justifies it as crucial to her job. She's got to be totally connected. But she also knows in her heart of hearts that this is kind of BS. And she was telling me how her kids in the back seat kind

of look at her like she's an insane person. Like only a crazy person would be checking their phone when they're driving. You know, it's like this generational gap that we're experiencing. It's kind of like the millennial version of what it was like for my generation to sit in the backseat of the car while my parents smoked in the front seat with the windows rolled up. It's like total insanity. Not only is it not good for our basic mental and emotional health, all this sort of obsessive typing on the phone, especially when we're driving, it's actually incredibly dangerous. People are dying because of this compulsive behavior. And this is for real. So I told her what I was doing. And then right then and there, she looked at me and she committed to removing Facebook from her

phone. So how about that? Right? That's like, that's like huge. So come on, you guys, let's do this together. I promise to share if you do. All right? Cool. See you next week. Peace. Plants.