The Ricky Gervais Show / An Idiot Abroad - Guide To... S1E3 "The Arts" (February 24, 2009)

Episode Date: September 5, 2022

A new series, called The Ricky Gervais Guide to... featured the trio discussing various topics in their entirety during individual 50 min episodes. The first volume The Ricky Gervais Guide to... Medicine was released on 31 December 2008. This was followed by The Ricky Gervais Guide to... Natural History on 21 January 2009. This in turn was followed by The Ricky Gervais Guide to... The Arts on 18 February 2009. The 4th episode, The Ricky Gervais Guide to... Philosophy aired on 17 March while the 5th and final episode of season 1, The Ricky Gervais Guide to... The English followed on 21 April (2 days prior to St. George's Day).

Pablo Picasso once stated, We all know that art is not truth. Art is a lie that makes us realise truth. Pablo Picasso once stated, We all know that art is not truth. Art is a lie that makes us realise truth. From painting and poetry to symphonies and sculpture, the arts bring beauty and illumination to some, confusion and frustration to others.

But what is art? The idea of a work of art, created by an artist did not truly exist before the Renaissance. And what value do the arts still have? Do they still make us realize the truth, or are they increasingly rarefied and obsolete in this digital disposable age? With me to discuss the wide spectrum of the arts are Stephen Merchant, graduate of the University of Warwick and award-winning writer. Thank you so much for having me. And Carl Pilkington, a man with no qualifications, very little education, but who is now known the world over as a man with a head like a fucking orange.

All right. Well, I suppose if I can pick up on something from your introduction, Ricky, you pose the question, in a sense, what is art? It's a very broad term. It's a very difficult one as well. I think the earliest people to ponder it with the Greeks and I think they thought that art was and its point was to try and emulate as close as possible the beauty of nature. So they knew art was a sort of, you know, a quest for beauty and I suppose they thought nature was pretty perfect in its aesthetic.

And so the point of an artist was to try and tap into that. Well, let me throw that question over to Carl Pilkington. What do you want to know? Well, we were just trying to clarify what art is, Ricky, just referring back to the Greeks. It's just something for your eyes to look at. It's just a change from the norm, isn't it? I mean, that's why I think most people have it. But then, the problem is, I'd never buy a piece of that's why I think most people have it but then the problem is I'd never buy a piece of art I don't see the point in buying something because I know that

my eyes will get bored of it eventually right so it's better to keep it in a museum like a lot of places you know a lot of museums keep the stuff they rotate it because people get sick of looking at it they shift the art around don't me people go sick of that now they move it around the world the world the world the it. Well, that's more to get everyone the chance to see it as opposed to the people who looked it at once and now sick of it. Oh, not the shitting Mona Lisa again. If I have to stare at that little bitch. I think there's a snobbery with art. I think there's a snobbery with art. Well I their I their I their I their their their their I their their th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th th th th th th. I thi thi thi thinks thinks their their their thinks people their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people. I their their their their their their their their their their th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I'll thee. I'll thee. I'll that that that that that that that thou. I's that that that that that that that with art. Why? Because the world is full of idiots and just because there's not safety in numbers with art. I think you should be a complete fascist when you're creating a work of art. I don't think it is open to utilitarian or democratic referendum. You end up with the X-Factor winner that way. No I know but that pleases the masses. That's what I'm saying. When there was a painting in knocking the the the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their th. their w. their their wo. theirl. theirl. theirl. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I's. I. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. th. I's. I'm.u.u.u.s.u.u.s.s.u.s.u.s.s.s.s.s.s.s.u.....s........... know, but that pleases the masses. That's what I'm saying.

When there was a painting knocking about when I was a kid, right? Called the Blue Boy. Yeah. Now every house had one, right? It turned out that it was just a bloke who had a load and he was flogging them to everyone. But the thing is, that's that's that's that represent well what's that going to bring to the room it's just filling a fill in a gap and that's what art is to me is filling a gap that would otherwise have now in it but you're obsessed with the functionality of things this is all you ever obsessed with does what's its function you all thi's the things th th th is th th is th th is th is th is th is th is things things things things things things things things things things things things things things things things things things things things things things things things thi all thi all th, th, what's th, what's th, what's th, what's th, what's th, what's thi. thi. thi. thi. th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi's thi's thi's thi's thi's thi's thi's thi's thi's the thi thi's thi thi thi thi thi from A to Z in some way. And art's not about that. Have you got more chart in your house? Yes.

Yeah. Because it gives me pleasure and I don't get tired of it. I don't get bored. Do you look at it every day? Well, it's there, it just adds a pleasure to it. Surprisingly I've not compared art to dust as often as I perhaps should. But the thing about, the the the be intriguing to you, Damien Hurst, of course, is more of a conceptual artist like Tracy Emin, and a lot of what contemporary art does is

followed on from a guy called Marcel Duchamp, who I'm sure you're familiar with. Now he famously took a gentleman's white urinal like you'd find in a pub toilet and he put it on its side and he signed it with a fake name and he put it in an art gallery. Now he did that in about 1917, perhaps a bit later. It just annoys me because there'll be snobby people who haven't got a clue and they're looking at that and they're going, oh yeah, see what he's trying to say. Well they might make them think they might... Damien Nurse, I don't feel angry with Damien Nurse really because he's getting away with it. But why does that annoy you? Because it's people falling into the trap. Damien Nurse, before he dies, I bet he goes what a laugh that was. I had everyone on.

There's a very good point as well because some people think that the last hundred years is marketing. Some people say that that is his art. That it's not good enough to do it. You've got to then get away with it. And if art, if the point of art is to inflame, I don't think anything inflames people more than the discussion about whether something's art, or if someone's taking the piss, or if someone gets 50 million for something, do they deserve it, is it worth a hospital? Well what do you think of the shark in a tank called?

I think I was blown away by it. I thought I'd never seen this like it before. It was sort of spectacular because it is so huge and so vast and to have put a shark you know, in formaldehyde and to have hung it in an art gallery. It's very striking when you see it. It's a remarkable achievement. But what is he an artist or a fishmonger? What he's done? Anyone could have done what he did? Yes, but not everyone did it. He did it. This is an interesting point that you raised. It's the same old point you always raised. Not anyone could have done it.

That's always the same point you make. But they did it you do it. You can say the same about about about about about about about the same about about about about about about about about the same about about about about about about about about about about about the same about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about the same the same the same the same, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, th. He, th. He, th. He, th. He, th. He's, th. He's, th. He's, th. He's, th. He's, th. He's, th. He's, th. He's, tho. He's, thi. He. He, the same about Michelangelo. Is he an artist or a painter and decorator? Well it hasn't caught on, has it, like the crying boy photograph. No one's having them in their house. No one's gone. Have you seen this? Have you seen the new trend a shark in a tank? No one's got then they would and I just think that that's I think that's true in all walks of life. You know it's it's an acquired taste and the best things are an acquired taste. They really are. Well, you know if all you eat is processed cheese and white bread you get a taste for it. But if you try something that's, you know, in my opinion, better than that, then, you know, you'll leave that behind. That's pretty

rich coming from you. I know, I love a bit of chedd, I don't know, I'm not, mother's pride. Yeah. Whereas if you were to be offered perhaps some calamari, your reaction would be... Squid. to that, that's it. that, that, that, that, that, that, that, the the that, their. S squid. S squid. S squid. S squid. S squid. S squid. S squid. S squid. S squid. that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that. S. that, you. That. That. That. That. That. That. That. That. That, you. That, you. That. S. That, you. S. S. That, you. That, you. That, you. That, that, you. That, that, you. That. That. That. S. S. That. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. I. I. I. I. I. I, th. S. I. I's, th. I'. I'. I'. I'. I'. I'. I'm, th. I'. I'. S. I'm. I'm. S. I'm. S. S. S. I. S. point Rick, thanks for it anyway. Calamari was an artist by the way. I mean I haven't got pictures in our flat because of that mirrored wall I've got. Yeah. Right. So, I mean, it's tiny, he's been in it. I've got windows on one wall, door to get in on the other, kitchen on the other, mirrored wall on the other. So there's no space for art.

There's no space for art. I'm intrigued how you sit at home. Where's the sofa? At home? Yeah, face. the mirror. all night as opposed to a painting. Yeah but at least that changes each day. No it doesn't. It does. The picture changes. It's not. It's round and miserable every day. No no honestly it's good to, because you don't look at yourself otherwise,

especially me I haven't got any air to comb or anything. So I don't look in the mirror as much as the normal person. Whereas now I'm looking there every day. So you're sat and home staring at yourself. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the picture. the picture. the picture. the picture. the picture. the picture. the picture. I. I. I'm. I'm. It's. I'm. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It. It's. It's. It. It's. It. It's. It. It. It. It's. It. It. It's. It's. It's. It. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. I. I's. It's. I's. I'm. I'm. I'm not. I'm not. I'm t. I'm. I'm t. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'mthe tell is in front of the mirror. But are you not slightly distracted by yourself? Yeah, you do when the adverts are on, you look up and if Suzanne sat next to me, I tend to talk to her, thrown to me, I tend to talk to her. What do you mean. There's no neck usage going on. I can just look forward. I look at the telly, lift the eyes up, look in the mirror, look at me, look at her. What did she do? Look back to you in the mirror? We're used to it, that's nothing wrong with that. It's like there's more people in the

room. It's like, and they're further. you use it doesn't matter sorry remember why wouldn't you talk to your girlfriend via a mirror all the time is that your question well no I think it's quite normal if your head is facing a mirror where you can see everything in that room it's a small flat I can see everything that's going on in there without moving me head Stephen Orkin would be well happy so I can look forward she's sat next to me if if I'm watching the tele I can say the the the the the the the the the the the the to the to the the the the the to to the to to the to to the to the to to to told told to told told to to told to to to to told to to to to to to to to told. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the te. I. I. the. I'm. the. the. I. the. the. the. I. toe. I'm. toe. I'm. toe. to. the. I sat next to me. If I'm watching the tele, I can say something. Now she's getting the sound from me still because she's sat close. Yeah. But yeah, we're further away, but things look better from a distance anyway. So that's how you managed to keep this relationship alone, maybe. You're such an odd little man. But no, it's not odd. You see there was a woman on the estate who did use, have I told you about Miss Piggy before?

No, it rings a bow, go on. I think I'd tell you ages ago, it's this fat woman who used to be on the estate, she had a three-wheeler bike. And her husband's... Yeah, like a tricy. Yeah, like a tricy. . .

She's a thah. basket in the back, cycle about what have you. She was known as Miss Piggy. Anyway, Oh is this the one that she used to beat him up so your dad pretended to be a policeman? Yeah, that's it. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, she used to always duff her husband up and that and people in the area knew that she was being a bit tight on him and my dad went around with his mate and so what's this got to do with the mirror anyway well the way she used to communicate she's always going quicksaving Nick biscuits and if anyone went up to her to say stop making the biscuits she'd pull out like a little mirror out of a bag and she'd look in it but talk to you via the mirror oh god what what what she's insane it's weird it's like it? It was really weird. It was a scaremist. It's like a Salvador Dali painting.

You exist in there. Yeah. It's really, really weird. So, hang on, so she used to talk to people through the mirror because she was mental. I couldn't sit, watch the telly and look at me watching the tele, in a mirror all night. No. That's weird. That would be really weird. It's really weird, Carl. I'd be very conscious of myself. No, yeah, I think it gives you confidence on that and if you are sort of... Get your confidence? Well yeah, because you're seeing yourself more and you pick up what habits you do and stuff like that. So what have you changed through your view? I sort of your beard? I sort of grew a beard, do the week, just something different to look at for a bit.

And then you get sick of that, it's like a piece of art, change that, have a bit of a shave. Can you see the back of the telly in the mirror? A little bit, yeah. If the flat's a mess, it's a mess twice. Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Oh, God! The earliest art which we know, which we call cave paintings, they date back between 30 and 10,000 years BC. Even those people tried to brighten up their cave with a bit of art. So in many ways they were more advanced than you. Yeah, but they didn't have a big mirror. I mean if you're living in a cave let's face it you're not going to

go mad if your kids start drawing doodling on the on the cave wall I it doesn't matter right. Right. Right. Right. Right. But they always did the same thing it was always a yack. Yeah, but they drew what they saw. I mean yeah I love the fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact th th th th th that th th that th th th th th th th th th th that that that that that that that that. that. that. that. that. they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they th. the. the. the. the. they're the. the. they're they're they're the. they're they're they're they they they they they they they they they they they they yeah, but they drew what they saw. I mean yeah, I love the fact that 30,000 years ago they're being criticized for being a bit literal No, but surely if all you ever see when you step out the cave is a yack Do something different on the wall for when you get in Why is it always a yack? Is it always a yack? It's always a yack when? It's always a yack when I'm ABC the the the the the the the the the they. they. It's they. they. they. they. they. they. they is. they is. they is always. they is always. they is always. they. they's. they's is always always always is always. they. they. they. they're they're is. they're is always is always is always is always is. Is it is always is. Is it's is always is. Is it's is. Is it's is always is. Is it's is. Is it's is. Is it's always is. Is it's always is. Is it's always is. Is it's always is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. It's always always always is always always always always always always always always always always always the y'. It's always always a the y'. It's always a y' the y' the y'a. It's always a y'a. It's always a y'a'a' the y'a'a'a'a'a'-a'a'er. It's always a y' the the the they. It's always a yack. Whenever you see these Tom Robinson time team programs. Who's Tom Robinson? He's the guy did Mowlway, isn't he? Yeah, and I, a 70 singer songwriter. Tony Robinson, you mean? Tony Robinson, whenever you see him digging, digging around,

they say, hold up everyone, get the brush, what's this, what's this? It's always a yack. Yeah, they pretend they're interested. So you're saying. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they're, they. they. Yeah. they. they. Yeah. th. they. they. they. they. their. their. their. Yeah. their. Yeah. Yeah. they're. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. they're. they're. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I'm. I'm. the. I'm. the. the. the. I'. the. the. I'. the. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the have been something I'm not going to draw a yak I saw a yack out so this is what I'm saying to you about trends one person has it the next caveman go I'll have one of them all my will I'll do a yack why was they no one just doing something a bit different well it's not true they did it's been to Pompeii where they had Doodling on the walls and that was all like Knobs tits and ass yeah over the shop now do that now people go that's a disgrace rub that out Clean that get it down whereas now if you see one in Pompey they go no look in the detail on that Well, yes, I'm saying this snobbery you art. It's the same knob. The knob has not changed. Yeah but I imagine in 50,000 years time if they dig up a cubicle and there's tits and ass. You take pictures of it again. This is the interesting thing with the way we live now. We're cleaning stuff up constantly now.

There's no, uh, almost no record of our time because we're getting rid of everything. We clean everything up, everything's clean. Getting rid of rubbish, recycling everything. Well that's a very good point. Is graffiti a valid art form? Some of it is. I think it is, yeah. I mean we're not talking about the classic spunkingunking dick which is still I mean it's still great isn't it well I mean if you see a lovely clean white wall and you see a spunking dick on it you're gonna laugh always laugh do you do you add hair to the but the testicles when drawing the testicles are the testicles are always clean yeah I never I put the four or five bristles sticking out straight. See I always thought that was a kind of common version. It looks like, mine looks like, I don't mean my real one, I mean my, illustrative.

It looks like two gooseberries and Thunderbread too. Do you add much detail at the tip of the penis? No, it's a straightforward, it's dissecting across, just a line across to show the helmet, then one little line for the eye. And do you tend to keep the same number of droplets coming out? I do three, but I don't do the line, I actually do the little tear droplets of spunk, yeah, and that is the spunk and dick as I see it. When I was at school it was referred to, and this may be specific to Bristol, it was referred to as the sacred.

Why? I've just drawn a sacred. Oh really? I don't know where the origin of that was. Some graffiti is funny. I saw one in London. It just said, Rachel is a big-assed,inned cunt. Now I think Rachel's going to see that and know well I'm I'm the only big asked big chinned cunt round here I don't know

how big a chin was sure I think of a chin maybe looking like the ass yeah maybe she couldn't see the last part of it because the chin was in the way Rachel is a bit and that's all you can see it was in a near center point so do so do you thi the th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi that that that thi thi that that th. th. So th. So th. th. th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I thi th. I th. I th. I I th. I I th. I I I I th. I I I th. I I I th. I th. I th. I I th. I th. I th. I th. I th th th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi of it because the tun was in the way. Rachel is a... And that's all she could see. Now where was this graffiti written? It was in near center point. So do you think someone was so angry with Rachel? Well, maybe Rachel nicked this woman's fella. Right. And she went out and scrawled that in a lot of different places.

I saw one that was something, I only thinks that was something that was something, Michael Peters is gay. And I always wondered if that was Michael Peters himself, who was having trouble coming out of the closet. Yeah. I was just writing that in a number of different places. So that by the time you finally mentioned people, they were, yeah, I knew that anyway, I saw in the toilet. Sculptures. What do you think of sculptures? What do th th is think th is thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi, what do thi, what thi, what thi, what thi, thi, that is that is that is thi, thi, thate. thatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheat, that, that was that was that was that was that. that was th. th. th. th. th. th. that was th. that was thi, thi, that was thi, that was thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that that that that that thate. that. that, ththat's something, that really is getting into the 3D world there. No longer do you have to represent something as 3D, you can make something. You know, is it, you know, the statues are amazing, aren't they? They're clever, aren't they? I mean, they always looked the same.

Well, that's not true, is it? Because recently there was quite a controversial one, a huge one, in the the the the theeee, the? the? the? the? I.... I. I. the? I. the? I. the? I. the? I, the? I, the? I, thre. thre. I, thre. I, thre. thre. I, that's, that's, that's, that's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It. It's, th. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It, th. It, th. It. It, th. It, th. It, th. It, th. It, th. It, that, that, that, that, that, that's, that's, that's, that's that's that's that's that's not, that's that's not, that's not, that's that's that's that's not, thre. It's thre. It's thre. It's, true is it? Because recently there was a quite a controversial one, a huge one in London, the pregnant philidomide woman. What do you think of that? Oh yeah, I saw that. Thoughts? Thoughts? I wouldn't have it in my house. Well there wouldn't be room because it would just be you, and a pregnant philidomide watch and tell. I don't know what he was trying to say. It's uh...

Maybe she was saying, okay, we've had the human form. This is an example of the human form. Yeah, but you think she started off trying to do normal and it was like, oh, I've chipped a chips off. Well it makes you wonder, don't it? And why, you see that, that's square, to follow the square, you've got that? Nelson's column, he's got one arm and a leg missing or something and a patch over his eye, then you've got the Thalidomide, why can't they saw. That was what the artist saw. It's about confronting us with certain preconceptions of what that, what we expect of the human form,

what we expect of sculpture. It's probably a little ironic comment as well on the famous Rodan. It's been wrapped up with all kinds of ideas of maternity, of the human forum of what sculpture is. Why wouldn't you put that in a big public place? What about the subject? Did you think that is that subject? Who is that woman? No, not really, because the Lydomides are around and we've all seen one. It's not like a shocking, a shocking image. It's one of life's little things that it chucks out. There's some out there. So it's not it's not shocking is it? I don't understand what you mean. I think what I thought is it just goes to show we cut sort of running out of ideas. What do you think

of people who are so angry at art they they try and censor it or they try and destroy it? Do you think art should ever be censored? It's where you put it. If it's in a gallery then it doesn't have to be censored. If it's in Trafalgar Square where everyone's wandering around having a nice time, you don't want a 12-foot cock. So it's all about where you put it. I think some art looks better because of where it is. Angel in the North, that's a bit of art, but it's a bit of a surprise, isn't it? You're driving along a miserable motorway. Oh, what's that over there? It gives you something for your eyes to look at again. Motorways are the most boring place to drive. But you go, look, there's a bit of art over there. Stiolk. But, their, their, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, their, th, th, th, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, th an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an an art when you when you're going at 70 miles an hour along a motorway? Well yeah

because it's really big you can keep your eye on it and and look in the mirror you can it's not a problem. Wait to you go past it and look in the mirror like normal. So you like the angel of the north because it's it's something in the middle of nothing right but if you put it somewhere else. Stick it in Trafalgar Square you'd go, oh more clutter. Now you've spoken, Carl about you know, R and what impact does it have? Blah, blah, and as Ricky's just pointed out, of course in some instances, R has been considered incredibly controversial, very provocative and has been banned. Famously one thinks of the Nazis, banning and burning certain books, not all of which were just books, you know, criticizing them. It was often artistic works, things which they felt were

subversive in some sense, and you get that in many repressive regimes where people's artistic work is not allowed to express the way they feel about something, for Stalonist Russia for instance, art their literature, not able to express its views because people see it as dangerous as provocative. Well yeah the threatreatreatreatreatreatreatreatreatreatreatreatreatreatreatreatreate thtreate, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. threate, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, th. thu, thu, thu, thu, th. And th. And th. And, and th. And, and th. And, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they're they're they're they're they're they're they're thu, thu, the, the, thean, thean, they're thean, they're they're they're they're they're theananananan, thean. And, thee yeah, the threat always comes from scholars with like any dictatorship, you know, and they know that. But not just scholars writing, you know, scholarly texts, criticisms, but also people expressing themselves through poetry, through creativity.

Well, yeah, expressions are dangerous. They can be abstract and yet they can still be subversive. Yeah, but I think if it's done in a way that isn't just like a lunatic, they get away with it. Like a nice poem, some people would see, read it in a different light. I might read it and go, I don't even know what they're going on about there. So as long as it's done clever, get away with it, don't they? So it makes the artist case. But it's often not the case, that's often not these regimes these things are repressed. No, but it's always like code words and that you can use and they can't have you on it.

Such as? I don't know. I'm not into that sort of work. Right, so you've just made a statement but it's not backed up with any information. No, what if you do it in a clever way. The McCarthy era where he was threatened by communism infiltrating the country and he the the the the the thuterterterterterterterter. thuil. thuil. thuil. thuil. thuill. thuill. than thi thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. they thi. they's they's they's they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they's they's they's they's they's they's they's they's they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're thi. thi. thi. thin. teananananan't teanan't teat teat teat th th thia. I can't the country and he thought that entertainers might be a part of that, the conspiracy. It was a hotbed and he made everyone come forward, writers, actors say they're not a communist and some people were out in the cold and so people had to be a bit clever like Arthur Miller, the trucuthable it's a metaphor it's about witch hunts but it's about the

McCarthyism so yes good point you can put coded messages to see radio was the same thing go on well it's all the codes as long as you got codes I mean I was trying to make your point sort of more valid than it obviously obviously if you need torying to make your point sort of more valid than it obviously was. No but if you need to refer to CB radio that's the obvious. Well that's what I can relate to. Sure. We've done this, there's no point in CB radio. They go, they go, how many candles are you burning?

What? How old are you? Okay, yeah. I mean, there's no point. to the crucible. Why would you be talking about one of the most respected plays the 20th century and suddenly this in your head reminds you of CB radio? Just having this code going on that only certain people know how to break. Everyone knew it. No it's not not back then. Pointless. I remember we were shown the cartoon version of Animal Farm when we were about like 15, 16. We were discussing afterwards about, oh yeah, oh yeah, communism versus, oh the poor

proletariat and all this. And this bloke went, you like you like me sick. It was just a nice film about some animals. Brilliant. Yeah. What was your point? Because you can see the irony there, can't you? I haven't seen it.

No. If if if if if if you want the the the thethere can't you? I haven't seen it. No. If you want to do a serious point don't use animals. No? Well I disagree with there because we're going to get on to the literature later and I think my favorite is Charles Dickens and I think the greatest story ever told is a Christmas Carol and there's only one way that could ever be improved and that is a Muppet Chinders. So so that so so so so so so so that so I so I so I so I so I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is th. that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm thi is the. I'm the. I the. I'm the. I'm the. I'm the. I'm thi. I'm thi. I'm absolutely right, yeah. So, and I think that you could, and I think people could take a lesson from that and maybe do other films with the Muppets. A Muppet Shinders List. Yeah. I mean, you could make it so moving, couldn't you? Shinlo's List in space! Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think it would certainly help bring that story to a wider audience. I think so. Yeah. People who are, like Carlo, were put off perhaps by the depressing black and white of it,

they would suddenly see them up singing and dancing. Miss Piggy's choice. Yeah. Well, we talked about that. About things like that in art as well. Thatthat bringing some much so serious to the masses like films do, things like the Holocaust and like Sophie's Choice where she has to choose which child lives and dies. Why did she have to pick? Well because the Nazis were horrible, nasty, evil people. Which one did you pick? I don't, I don't think that's the point. I don't think that's the point. I don't think that's the point. This is not a betting game. No, but I imagine this is like deal no deal. It's kind of you're down to the last, down to the last two,

which one you're going to go for? Oh God. But why did you ask which one did she choose? Because if he the names the names th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. I thi. thi. I thi. I that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's. I. I th. I th. I. I. I. I th. I th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I the. I the. I the. I the. I tho. I tho. I the. I tho. I tho. I the. I tho. I that's that's that's that's that's the. I'm not... But why did you ask which one did she choose? Because if he said the names, Robert and Allison, what difference would it make? You don't know the story. Why is it that? I'd ask more then. If you said Allison, I'd go, what was it with Allison that? their that. their thooobey.

That's because you've just watched them up with Alaphia their, I always say at the end, what was going on there? Oh, Jesus Christ! That's because you've just watched him up at Christmas, Carol, and you can't understand why a frog's able to talk. I'm all for films with a good storyline. Yeah? Brilliant. That's a perfect point. One extraordinary point. Guys, that's going to follow this up mate. He's going to follow it up. He's got something here. Carl, go on then. What's your take on films? Films are really good. You can get lost in them. Right? And uh... You like one with a good story? I like, I mean, whenever anyone asks,

it's elephant man. It's Kez. Mission Impossible too. These are what you consider great works of film art. No, I'm just saying these are ones that I've enjoyed recently. There's so many films that I haven't seen, yet you always say, oh, have you seen so and so? Well, Mission Impossible 1. It was good news for you. Three's out. That's true. One of the most striking art exhibitions that I ever attended, Carl was an exhibition of outsider art.

I'm sure you're very familiar with. Outsider art, of course, is work that is made by people who are often institutionalized for mental health problems or they are just incredibly, you know, the people who aren't in any way part of the art. Well, they ought to write up to psychopathic murderers, clinically insane mass murderers would count as outsider art. I went to an outsider exhibition in New York. It was incredible and I bought a painting of this guy, he's a chronic schizophrenic and he paints in tar, like road tar that he gets from roads and he paints in that on wood he

finds in sort of skips. And it's incredible because it's sort of like scratched in and it's amazing and there's this thing of Jesus being helped down off the cross. And you have to study it but it's there and it's quite incredible that it's amazing, it's this thing that Jesus being helped down off the cross. And you have to study it, but it's there and it's quite incredible that it's just scratched in this wood by tar. And there's those things that I was walking around. Admittedly I was walking around there going, this is fucking mental and James going, you've got to stop saying that. Because of course some of the people are mental. And there was one blunted down the sculpture of a skull, right? And underneath, it was like a little head with his teeth, underneath he'd put a sign

that said real teeth from. Where's he get the real teeth from? What I think is interesting about that is how much therapy it provides for these often mentally unstable people, which is another important value of art of course, people, self-expression, people being able to give a little piece of themselves through their work. Do you not see any value in that? How do you express yourself? Whistle? Whistle? You whistle?

Yeah, I found over Christmas a whistled a lot more than he usually do. And I think that was just freedom. What do you mean? Freedom? Right, expand on this point if you would. Well, that's what art is, isn't it? It's you being free of all the world's heaviness. See, that's a great quote that. That's great that. Art is freedom, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, is, that, that, is, is that, is that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that's that's that's that's that, that's that's that's that's that, that, that's that, their their their their their their their their their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, art is their, art is their, art is their, art is their, art is their, their their their thiiiii.art is thi.art is that's thi.art is that's their their their their their their, their, free of all the world's heaviness. See that's a great quote that. That's great that for art is freedom. I love that because I think you really hit on some of it there. Would you include the free of all the world's

heaviness? Well I know what you meant. I know it meant there. I mean I would include the world's heaviness in my freedom. You know, some artists are attracted to the dark side, the heaviness of the world. But I just want to return to you whistling as your artistic expression of freedom. I mean, why do you find yourself whistling more? That's what was weird. So just take us through a day. When would the whistling begin? So suggest something? Your freedom was thinking, I'm in my own place now, I'm going to annoy them? Well it was mainly, it's when we were playing Scrabble and they were taking ages to have their go and couldn't have the radio

on because the boiler affects the radio. It works, it just gives something off. Every time it kicks in, the radio goes all staticky. Right? So I just was sort of supplying the soundtrack. I think you've really hit on some of it there. Would you include the free of all the world's heaviness? Well, I know what you meant. I know what you meant there. I mean, I would include the world's heaviness in my freedom. You know, some artists are attracted to the dark side, the heaviness of the world. But I just want to return to you whistling as your artistic expression of freedom. I mean,

why did you find yourself whistling more? That's what was weird. So just take us through a day. When would the whistling begin? So, sorry, this was that you spent, you spent Christmas down in Kent with Suzanne and her parents? Yeah. Could I suggest something? Your freedom was thinking, I'm in my own place now, I'm going to annoy them? Well it was mainly, it's when we were playing Scrabble. And they were taking ages to have their go and couldn't have the radio on because the boiler affects the radio. It sort of interferes with it. You got boy to work. It works, it just gives something off. Every time it kicks in, the radio goes all staticky. Right? So I just was sort of supplying the soundtrack.

And what kind of things would you be whistling? It was like, I just sort of did a whistle medley. It was going from one thing to another. A wedley. And a man was like, oh, oh you can whistle can't you? I was going yeah. And then she was saying how loud can you go I was just doing all different levels. This sounds like a scene for one foot of the Cuckoo's Nest. The boy the setting off the radio, I can whistle, oh you're good whistling, isn't you? I just found it odd, talking about outsider, I love the fact that Carl's life is like living in a home when you're when thes. Yeah, but you felt that this was your way of expressing yourself. I just found it odd because I'm not I don't whistle that

much. I think just because I'm I think I'm fed up most of the time when I'm in London and you never get you don't whistle when you fed up here. Whistling is a happy thing. You never get an angry man suddenly breaking into a well. Well the people who aren't whistling. the they. the people are they. th, I I I I I I I I I I I I I I the people thin, I thin, I thin, I thin, I thin, I thin, I'm thin, I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm thin, I'm thin, I'm just just just thi, I'm just just thi, I'm just just whi, I'm just whi, I'm th thi, I'm just I'm just I'm just I th th th th th th th th th th, I I I I I I I I th, I th, I th th th th th th th th th thin, I thin, I thin, I thin, I'm just just I'm just just just just just I'm just just just thin, I'm just thin, I'm just thin, I'm just thin, I'm just thin, I'm just thin, I'm just thin, I'm just thin, I don't thin, I don't thin,ke is whistling it's like yeah it's the least he's the least annoyed person in the room when someone's whistling same as holding a drill the only person that noise doesn't annoy is the bloke who's drilling everyone else wants to bunch is facing same with whistling. There's no point in whistling no there's no point in whistling no that there's the only the only good the only point the only the only the only the only the only the only the only the the only the only they I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I their I'm their I'm their I'm their their their their their is is is their is there's is there's their is no their is their is their is their is their is their is their is no there's is no there's is no there's is no there's is no there's is no there's is no there's is no there's is there's is is there's is no there's is is there's is no there's is no there's is no there's is no there's is no no no no no no no no no no no there is no the only the only the only the only only only the only only the only the only only only the only only the only only the only only only the only the only only. the only the only the only the only the only the only the only the only the only the only the only the only the only point. the only point to whistling is in the bloke's changing room, everyone's whistling going, I'm not looking at your cock. If I'm whistling, I can't be looking at your cock.

Anything else? There's no, calling a dog. the chanters. It changes the atmosphere. Yeah, it annoys everyone else. I don't know. I mean, our window cleaner was known as like, you know, that's how he knew he was there. He always whistled. And in the end he fell off his ladder, broke his front teeth, retired.

Well, because he couldn't whistle. That was it, it was like, well, he whistles all the time. Can't whistle, can't clean windows. It's a bit tragic. Could he take flute or a recorder? Not London's burning again. Fucking clean the windows and then fuck off. He didn't really think of this truth, did he? He retired at the age of 28. And his whole family were bankrupt. Yeah. And just a bucket and a squeegee. Why are you working, Dad? I can't whistle. I can't whistle. I can't whistle thi-I th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th and thin' thin' thin' thin' thin' thin' the the thin' the the thin' the thin' thin' thin' the the thin' the the the thin' the wind thin' the the the wind the wind th- th- the wind the wind th- fucking th- fucking fucking thu- fucking fucking fucking fucking fucking thu- fucking fucking thu-f' the wind the wind the wind the wind the wind the wind the wind the wind the wind the wind the wind the wind the wind the wind the wind thin' the wind thin' thin' thin' the wind thin' thin' thin' thin' thin' thin' thin' thin' thin' thin' thin' thin' thin' thin' thin' thin' thin' thin' thin' thin' thin' thin' up whistling the day I give up window cleaning. So you never whistle? No, I can't really whistle very well. No.

Well, I don't whistle but I can whistle better than that. What, you did this for hours on end while playing Scrabble. About two hours? Fee hoars? Put me word down on that. You did this for hours on end while playing Scrabble. Jesus. That's not two hours. FUHOWS! POT ME WORDS. And this, sorry, can we just hear that again? Just hear it. Can we hear it a bit?

So you're whistling after you had your go as well? Yeah. Fucking now, Carl, let's just hear a bit. That is Carl's self-expression right there. A name, no tune, no nothing. There's mental patients who have smeared Camasys with shit who have expressed more than you have in that. Yeah, but it's not about other people. I'm not there to please other people. You're there to annoy him. What was the best word you came up with in Scrabble? Don't knock me out Scrabble. What's weird is when when when when when when I play Scrabble, my brain can come up with words that I don't normally say.

Okay, this isn't, no, I'm intrigued here, your brain can come up with words you wouldn't normally say. Just words that I'd never drop into a sentence. Tree, cat. Go on. Squirm. Squirm. That's using a cue it's worth ten that. It's not bad is it now I've never said that. I've never heard you say squirm no I don't think you're right I've never never heard you say squirm. Weird, isn't it? Yeah it is weird. And yet your brain, put that one out? And then yeah when it wasn't I go just. Just... it your brain, pop that one out? And then yeah when it wasn't I go just... Wh-h! Oh God! It's defy.

Anyway, so that's sort of doing art for yourself as opposed for other people. I don't think you can count what you just did then as art. Hobby maybe, craft, pastime. I don't think you can count that as art. I'm not being funny. I'm being a bit snobby here, but I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I'm thin' th. I'm th. I'm that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm thin. I'm thin. I'm thin. I'm thin. thin. thin. the thin. the the thin. that's that's that's that's that's thi. I'm thi but I think there's a difference between Beethoven and Squirm. There's a cue in that. No, no, classical music. I wish I was more educated on classical music. That which I've heard I've adored. I genuinely find it challenging because it is so spectacular, it is so of another place. Where do you sit with classical music? It's good for background. Right. See, you know me, I like a song with a story and there's nothing going on in them.

Now the problem with that is, how many times can you hear the same story? Quite a lot, how many sounds can you watch the same film? Same thing. It's thi thi. Where th. Where th. Where th. Where th. Where th. Where th. Where th. Where to, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where thi. Where thi. Where thi. Where thi. Where thi, where thi, where thi, where thi, where the the thi, where thi, where do thi, where do thi, where do their thi, where do their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their th. Where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where. Where th th. Where th th thi. Where thi. Where thi. Where thi. Where thi. Where thi. Where thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. Where th with that is, how many times can you hear the same story? Quite a lot, how many sounds can you watch the same film? Same thing, except it's shorter than watching a film. Yeah but the film goes into the story with more depth than a three-minute song. Yeah, but there's also, do you know like when you watch, what's an example? Say, uh, I don't think of a film. th.there's not many. No, but a moment in a film that it doesn't matter how many times you watch it, you go, I enjoyed that bit. Um, Godfather swings to mind. Well say, no, over Christmas, on the buses was on the, the

man. Oh, Jesus. When... You went with the godfather, he went with on the buses. I mean, Brando, Varney, I don't know which is better. It was a bit where like the toilet blows up after theucking a fag in, that's had paint in it. Right. Sorry, that's in, that's in all the buses, that's not in the Godfather. I can't remember that. Maybe that's Godfather, too. The thing is, I know, I'll. I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, the. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. that, like, like, like, that, that, that, that, like, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that. that. that, that. that, that. that, that. that, that. that, that. that, that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that's. that's. the. that's. the. the. that's, the. the. the. the. that's, the. that's, that's, that's, that's that's that's that's that's the. that's. that's seen me on the Bustisville? About four or five times. Jesus. But all I'm saying is music is there to sing over. No it's not! Music is there to sing over. That's a ridiculous thing to say. Music does something to me. I don't know what it is.

I don't know why a chord can say something to you. I don't awe of musicians. My favourite piece of music is a thing by Volm Williams. It's five variants of Dives and Lazarus, right? And there's a bit there where it hits this chord and I can't listen to it when I'm away from home, because I well up. It reminds me of everything. England, just, it does something to me, and it does it on a level I can't sort of quite understand it's just immaculate. I just don't think you can beat a decent vocal on top of that.

Oh that's amazing! My mom's got a CD of Roger Whittaker right? Right, whistling again. Now he whistles the guy. Now the thing is I can't listen to that and whistle along, I end up singing Jealous Guy on top of it. So singing Trump's Whistling? Yeah, when someone else is doing the Whistling. Okay. I like whistling, but if someone else has did that first, so if Roger was singing Jealous Guy, you'd be whistling it. To make the classics live on, I'm surprised someone hasn't gone. I can add to this and dub on a bit of vocal. So you would have classical music with lyrics. Just for people who want that?

Batehoveen's fifth. That would be boring to you. But what you meant to do with it? When you've got that on,then do you whistle along no I don't wish it long I just I let it oh do you whistle along I just don't know what to say why are you obliged to whistle that's the only way you can enjoy music if you can't whistle along well that's the same with anything a good song you join in don't you it's like oh I like this one no so so so to that so by that's that's that's that's that's that's that's the the the the the the the the the to to the to to the to the to to the the to the to the to the the to the to the the the to the the the the to the the the to to the to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to to to to took I I I I I I I took I told I'm I'm I'm I'm to to told I told I too I I'm told I to too I told I to to to told I to to to to to 't knock it. It certainly gets the crowd up when I mean I did DJing and why did you go about the crowd? Who are this crowd?

Who are this crowd that you have to live in your head with? Fuck the crowd, most were idiots. Although admittedly if I was doing a wedding DJing set I probably would do YMCA overborne Williams. And why is that? Because it's happier go lucky. It's done in three minutes. Classical music goes on for ages. It's a good point. It's a good point. It's all over the shop. Are you going or are you staying? It's over time. And I'm not saying we should get rid of it. And I might grow into it because I think that's music for older people. Well, I think Mozart was disagree. I think he did his first symphony when he was five

or six, probably playing piano and writing music before you could read. When the piano come out when he was a kid. What do you mean? If it was trendy to have a piano when he was a kid, it's like how kids now, they're messing about on Google at the age of two, because the laptop is new. It's new to us. To them, it's like, oh, it's Google, isn't it? What's your point? Because he was born at the right time? Bateover? Yeah, he was born. So you're saying that all three-year-olds around the time of Moteau that're all around the same time right they just guessing wild starves in the dark just names he's heard just names he's heard

so when when they was young when I presume roll Paris's styrofoam came out everyone was composing on the stylophone yeah exactly so it's all what you brought up with nothing's hard if you're given it when you're a kid nothing's difficult they can be taught all so so the to to to the to to their their their their they they're they're they're they're they're their they're they're their they're they're their sorts. I haven't got room for a piano. It's too big for a pastime. A hobby shouldn't tech up a whole corner of a room. It's so limited, isn't it? His scope, his imagination.

But a piano, the idea that a piano in a house would be a frustration and annoyance. Music, that you could play harmony with the thanks. But I'd worry about annoying other people with it. No, you don't, you whistle. When you're playing Scrabble, you don't worry about annoying people at all. I'm sure people would rather have gentle piano music in the background than... Squirm. Squirm. Squirm. So one of the earliest and most celebrated art forms that's, you know, along with painting and music still

going today is the play. And of course the most famous and celebrated exponent of that is our very own William Shakespeare. Some say maybe the greatest literary genius in history. I'm not a fan. Right. And I'll tell you why I'm not a fan. One reason and one reason only. Sure. Not the the structure, his themes, fantastic. The pun. Right. Oh, I can't stand the pun. Yeah, but I mean although Shakespeare did include a few puns in his work, I don't think you could. No, I suppose it's the people who have to take it on the punn. It just reminds me of a bloke, a bloke, a bloke, a bloke, a bloke, a bloke, the the the p bloke, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, I's, oh, oh, oh, oh, I's, I's, I'm, I'm, I's, I's, I's, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, the pun, oh, the pun, the pun, the pun, the pun, the pun, the pun, the pun, the pun, the pun, the pun, the pun, the pun, the pun, the pun, the pun, the pun, the pun, the pun, the pun, the p. Oh, they. Oh, they. Oh, they. Oh, I's. Oh, they. the pun, the pun, the pun, the pun, oh, And it's things like Shakespeare, things like, oh, take their maiden heads. And you have to look at your broad his notes to go,

okay, cut off their heads and take their virginity. Oh, brilliant. You know, you can't, it's like, you can't explain the joke in retrospect. You don't laugh if you then explain to their, the, the, the a truly great master of our language. I think he was. If you listen, he added to the language, he invented words or at least he stole words and changed them a bit, he took them from other languages which is I totally totally valid. And he made up loads of sayings that are still around today and there's a poetry in that, inventing new, actually Carl, you like, you, you, you, you, you, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, you like sayings don't you. We've got a list here of some of

the sayings and phrases that Shakespeare made up really. Inner pickle was his. Yeah. We know what it means. It's a saying I'd never use. Because when you're in a pickle it's not something that you would say. No, if you're being captured and you're being tortured for information you wouldn't and you get access to a phone you wouldn't call am I five I'm in a pickle. You'd be screaming going he's taking me teeth now. Much as I love Shakespeare's, when that play was first staged and someone said during the play, oh I'm in a pickle, did the audience understand or were they baffled?

Or was it like watching Ken Dodd when he goes, young Bunchus? Exactly. Oh, terriflarious. Yeah. So Shakespeare is about as good as Ken Dodd. That's what we appear to have established. While you've been talking about that, I was just looking on the computer at the pun, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, th, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was to, was to to to to to th.......... We thin, was thin, was thin, was the the the the the thin, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi. thi. thi, was like, was like, was like, was th th to Pun of the Day website, because I feel like take much of what you say about puns and agree with it. There's a couple that you might like. There was a sign on the lawn at a drug rehab center that said keep off the grass. Okay, now if

the pun is the lowest form of wit, and let's face it, sarcasm isn't, sarcasm is up there compared to the pun, then the drug pun I think is one of the lowest of the low. Oh, people who congratulate ourselves on getting drug references. Keep off the grass with. Grass, get it? Yeah, smoking the grass. Show me a piano falling down a mine shaft and I'll show you a flat miner. Oh God, okay, good. Okay. Well, this, I mean that sums up punns, isn't it? It's things that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. I th. I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th is is th is throoooo, the, the, thruu. theau. theau. theau. theaugh is one one one one one is one is one. the. the is one is one is one is one. okay. Do you get that? Well this, I mean that sums up puns, isn't it? It's things that kids get in a cracker. I think puns should be short for punch him in the mouth. Idioms are better. Go on, then, what's an idiom? Is that a new word you made up? No, I've no. I know. I've found out what it was because I thought oh I like them. What their their th. What's th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that's th. that's like that's like that's like that's like that's like that's like that's like that's th. What's that's like that's like that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I's th. I's thi. I's thu. I's thu. I's thu-I's thu-a' thu-a' thu-a' thi. I's that's that's that's thi. I's that's complete idiom. I found out what it was because I thought, oh I like them, what are they? And it's like little sayings. Yeah, that's some stuff up. Go on. Give us an example of your favorite. I can't just say one, talking about sayings, Carl was

getting fed up with some of it was fed up with not getting replies from something, he's having a hard time, and I went, oh, the worm has turned, you,, what? The worm has turned, you know, you've... Stupid saying, isn't it? Tell him why you think that's a stupid saying. Because how do you know when a worm's turned? Of all the creatures that you could flip over and know it's turned, why pick a worm? It's a bad, it's the worst thing they could have picked to express something turning. But you're turning literally. It means changing, doesn't it? Changing your attitude, a new broom, turning over a new leaf.

Yeah, but then you're something that changes. Camelian. No, but it is a brilliant thing to use for something to change. Chuck that in a sentence. There's, thi thi to human life too. You're talking about something that's... It's blind, isn't it? It's blind, it's death. Guy? It's got no features. Why is you having such a girl a worm? Just because it's a weird thing to use. Something that... it's a heart is more, it does more, it does more than than than than than than than than than than than than than than than th than th than th weird thing to use, something that... Its hars is more, it does more than its head. That could be said of you, Carl, to be fair. We've talked about what art is, we've talked about painting, sculpture, we've talked about music briefly, we've talked about whistling over music to make it better.

Poetry. A completely different type of art form there. Kyle, what's your thoughts on poetry? I've never really been a fan of it. There's a surprise. I think it's sort of, it's all right for the person who's doing it. You know, you say that whistling is just for the whistler. But I think poetry is more like that, because you're it and you're thinking what's he going on about? It's always a bit, I don't know, it's sold in a bad line. It's a bit gay, isn't it? Right. I mean it depends what

sort you're talking about because maybe there's poetry out there that I haven't heard. There's some poetry than other. their poetry can't th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. tho' tho' tho' their their their thi's their their their their their tho' their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi's thi's thi's thi's thi's thi's thi's thoooooooooooooooooooooooooo' thea' thoooooooooooo' their their their tho' the. War poetry can't be gay can't it? That was people. I haven't heard. Go on. People fighting in the trenches and can't be gay. They weren't gay. They were right into their sweetheart. I don't know his name. It might have been a bloke, I don't know. But so was it, was it, was it, was it sort of a, what sort of a limerick sort of a like, it was a, sort of a limiolic, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, th, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, they, they're, they're, they're, they, they, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they were, they were, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they. They. They're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're, they're, they're, they're, Wilfred Owen and Siegfried O'Neil, and they're very moving. They're about, you know, what usually happens is that they talk about, why are we here? This is, you know, we've been, we've been sold a lie here, you know, and they really, started seeing war in a different light from, from their point of view, in the trenches, famously some of them died soon after they'd written a proper letter. No sort of crypticness. That's the problem with poems. Okay, so you'd have

been disappointed to get Dolcett, decor and mess through the post, would you? You'd have just said, what are you trying to say mate? What's the weather like, that? their weather? their tho-like. their. their, their, their, th. th. their, th. th. th. their, thi. that. thi. thoooo. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, th.. Pro. Prooooooooooooooooo. Prooo. Proo. Proo. Proo. Proo. Proo. Proo. Proo. Pro. Proo. Pro. Pro. Proo. Pro. So. So, their, their, their, their, their like that and it's like say what you mean. Right well that's well then that you have just wiped all art off the face of the earth if you literally just say what you mean. No I'm just saying in a letter say if I was a woman and my fellow was fighting in a war. Right what's your fellow's name? Harry okay so Okay so Harry, I really was right, so when were you married? So when were you married? About 1935. 1935, so you've been married about four years, Harry, why don't you, why don't you go off? Oh, you're a woman, aren't you? the fact, okay. So what, what did you see in Harry? What did you like, thu? He just was like funny. But it wasn't that but

that didn't matter about then did it in the war. No, and you took everyone. But what did you say when Harry was said to you? Well I thought it was coming because a lot of a lot of our friends ended up having to go? Right. Do you just hug him and say don't go or something? No point that would have just to go with it? th if he th. No th. No that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that th th that th th th th th th th th tho tho tho th tho thi tho tho tho tho tho th no th no th no th no th no th no th no th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th. No th. No th. No th. No th. No th. No th th th. No th. No th th. No th. No th. No thi he thi he he to thu to to to to tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo the the he the. No he tough for him. So what's the point? Just go with it. But if he had... I cried after he went. You cried after he went. That's what you're doing it, you wouldn't do it in front of him. He's got to go to battle. Okay, so your man goes off to battle. Right. Then I get a letter from the Colonel saying, oh, a bit of a letter in the post. He said what he meant they wouldn't, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, th, th, th, th, th. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I cried, I cried, I cried, I cried, I cried, I cried, I cried, cried, I cried, cried, cried, cried, cried, I cried, I cried, cried, cried, I cried, I cried, I cried, I cried, I cried, I cried, I cried, I cried, I, I, I, I, th. I, th. I. I, th. I, cried, th. I. I, cried, th. I, cried, cried, cried, cried, th. I. I, cried, cried, cried, cried, cried, cried, cried, cried, th. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C, th. C. I cried, th. I cried, I cried, I cried, I cried, cried, th. Now I get a letter in the post... He said what he meant, didn't he? Well yeah, and they would do, wouldn't they?

They wouldn't fanny around saying, oh, he was on the warpath and the cloud. The cloud went dark. I go, well, what, just tell me what happened. I don't want a weather forecast. He got a shot of the ass and the bulletin bu bu bu he sent his by, um, telegram, telegram, they sent a telegram, the letter I get from Ari has been stamped, so I get it late. Oh, okay. So I get a letter from, uh, from Ari after he's died.

Yeah, and you know he's dead. So I get this letter with his hand writing on, I'm devastated because I was just getting over his death. It's all brought back to me when this letter drops through the post. Well yeah, three days and you're pretty much over it. It's how his handwriting. Oh God, what's this? I open it. Yeah. And instead of saying, things are bad here, socks a damp, you know, everything's grim, it's colds, it's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's a th. It's a th. It's a th. th. th. th. th. th. th. their their th. their their their their thi. He's thr, thr. He's thr. He's thi. He's pretty thi. He's pretty their their their their their their their their their their their. He's pretty. He's their. He's their. He's their. He's their. He's their. He. He. He's a their. He's a their. He's a their. He's a their. He's a th. He's a thr. He's a thr. He's a thr. He's pretty thr. He's pretty thr-I. He's pretty thr-I's pretty thr-I's pretty thr-I's pretty thrue. He's pretty thrue. He's pretty. There's a poem. It wouldn't feel like it was from Harry. Well, what did not in his words. Poems are never in the person's words. But didn't you know how he was a poet when you married him and made love to him that night? No, I only picked it up because all the people were doing it. There's something to do in the trenches. But when he carried you over he say any, didn't he ever... So you must have whispered some sweet nothing since your hysterical red hat.

No, that's right to the point, he was like, get your knickers off. That's one of the weirdest fucking scenarios I've ever heard! I'm fucking... That's one of the weirdest fucking scenarios I've ever heard! I'm the fucking... What the fibrillogram coming before the letter? So specific! It wasn't like Harry the fox, Harry! Ha'i! Oh God! Oh God! Oh God!

Oh God! There are a few things gayer than poetry though. I want to throw one into the pot. The continental breakfast. The continental breakfast? That annoys me, when I see that, who orders that? If you've got the choice of eggs, beains, burgea, sausage, all that, you've paid for it already.

If I was a waiter and said, what was was I want for breakfast mate? And the bloke went, oh I just have a little bit of grapefruit juice and a quasson. I go, do you want some come on that? Or do you go back to the hotel? I'm a suck a cock. Yeah. So, I'm with you there. What else is gayer than poetry? I remember when I was at school once when I was at schooled when I was at school when I was at school when I was at school when I was at school when I was at school when I was at school when I was at school when I was at school the school the school the school the school the school the th. I was at school th. I was at school th. I was gay in school. It was the worst thing. It was the, you know. And I remember I was about 14, 15, I was talking to this bloke, I talk about my stand-up, David Beasley, he's the one that said if you get captured by cannibals, they show you pornographic pictures when you're in the pot, so you get an Really? And he said, you know that thing that kids always do, what would you rather be blind or death? We did that and we discussed that for a while and he went, what would you rather be blind or queer? And I went, well, I'd

rather be gay? Because... Because... I'd rather be gay because... He said... And he went, oh, would ya? I went, wouldn't, yeah? Rather than be blunt, I said, yeah, I said, also, if you were gay, you'd like being gay, he went, I wouldn't. He went, I wouldn't. I went, no, you would, I said, if you were gay, you would like being gay. He went, I wouldn't, Jervais. It sounds like you would. I would. I would. I would. I would. I would. I would. I would. I would. I would. I would. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. He th. He the th. He th. He the th. He went, he would, he would, he would, he went, he went, he went, he went, he went, he went, he went, he went, he went, he went, he went, he went, he went, he went, he went, he would, he would, he would, he would, he would, he would, he would, he would, he would, he would, he would. Oh, he would. Oh, he would. Oh, he would. Oh, he would. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. He would. thi. He would. He would, he would, thi. He went, thi. He went, thi. He went, thi. He went, thi. He went, he went, he went, he went, he went, he went, he went, he went, he went, he went, he went, he you would like being gay. He went, I wouldn't, Joubais.

Sounds like you would. I went, well if I was gay, I would like being gay. He went, well I wouldn't. And he looked at me accusingly and I went, no, nor would I, but gays would. Which made no sense at all. Right, yeah. But this is just like such a stone wall that I'd rather be anything than gay.

Carl, thoughts, blind or gay? This is about art, is it? So there you have it. Our comprehensive and definitive guide to the arts. Next in this series is philosophy. Well I'm looking forward to that one enormously Rick because of course you have a honors degree from the University of London in philosophy. Yes but I predict that that one will also be as big a lot of bollocks as all the huthers we've done. Thank you. Just to remind you

that you can still get the Ricky Juvay's guide to Medicine, the Rikijavay's guide to to to to to to to the to the to the to the to the to the to the to the to the to the to the to the to the to the to the the arts the arts the arts the arts the arts the arts the arts the the arts the the the the the the the the arts the arts and the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thei thei thei.i.i.i.i's thei.i.ioliolioli.iolioleoo the the the the the the the the the theiauau.au.augheoloa the the the the the the the the the the the theia