The Right Time with Bomani Jones - 1996 Hip Hop Series: DJ Wally Sparks on How Outkast, UGK & Master P Took Southern Hip-Hop From Regional to Global | 03.03

Episode Date: March 3, 2026

In this episode of Bomani Jones 1996 Hip Hop Series, Bo and DJ Wally Sparks examine the origin of Southern Hip Hop that year.  First, they discuss the Geto Boys and how they were the genesis of Southern Rap.  Later, they break down Outkast's "ATLiens", how it differs from their first record, and the incredibly adult themes explored by two teenagers.  Finally, they examine the influences of No Limit & Master P on New Orleans and Three 6 Mafia on Memphis. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the right time, a wave original. My name is Beaumani Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. It is Time Machine Tuesday.

We are back with episode four on our series of the year 1996 in rap music. Joining us now. Check him out on Twitch, twitch. dot TV DJ Wally Sparks. That is DJ Wally Sparks wearing that horrendous Orange if you're watching on the video. Hey, hey. Hey, chill out, bro.

I'm saying. Big one's better than Burnthorns is all I got to say, baby. Hey, look, man, I don't even really engage in that burn orange activity so much, but I'm just saying, like, looking at it on the screen, I popped up. I was like, I wonder what shirt Wally going to be wearing. And I had to start going like this and getting my eyes right, because he got that traffic urge.

Yeah, man. Shout out to the power team, baby. So, I got, you know what? I wonder what it's like. Like, think about this. Like, if you're a Lauren Hill fan, right? Mm-hmm.

Lauren Hill was really cracking in 98, and it ain't really been shit popping since then, but you always got 98 and, like... You got the score. Yeah, but it's not like she keeps popping up. Like, she pops up since 98, but she don't pop up and give you, like, mediocrity post-98.

She just don't give you nothing, right? And so you always got 98. That's kind of like Tennessee football, except they be popping up mediocre. Yeah, the struggle of being a Tennessee volunteer football fan is quite real. We always have, as you so succinctly put, 1998, you know what I'm saying? You're like Nebraska. Like, y'all used to be that. Nah, I mean, I think we still, you know, we being us as fans, still have faith.

that the ship can be turned around. I mean, Josh Hype was doing what he, what he, you know, what he can, what he got, you know what I'm saying?

So, but, you know, I'm still, I'm still, you know, still that rooting for all the guys getting in that checkerboard

in zone, man, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, man, I remember Tennessee had four touchdowns in one game. Speaking, speaking of nostalgia, we've been talking about the year

1996. Now, the first episode, me and my man, Jason Inglon, we talked about the year of Tupac. Then I talked Wally about the,

like a look at some, hit singles from 1996, came back with Jason where we talked about the East Coast, like the more commercial end of the East Coast in 96. Now me and Wiley going to talk about

what was going on in the South. And it is a time where to truly discuss this, Wiley, you had to be in the South because otherwise, you really wasn't getting a hold of these records. Yeah, you wouldn't know.

You know, it was back to, you know, our previous conversation, man. it was all about retail was like a real big part of what was going on. You know, really the only option you had if you were in the South making records was was to be independent because, you know, major labels weren't coming down here checking for anything at all, at all, you know? So yeah, man, it's a, it's a, it was definitely a different time period. And you really, really, really had to be in the reason to kind of understand.

the music that was being made, produced, and distributed throughout the region that ultimately built a foundation for what happened 10, 20 years later where the South became the dominant force in hip-hop culture. And, you know, I'd say probably like from the late, late 90s, from like 99 and through maybe like up until, up until probably about 2010, you know? So, but all of that happened because of, you know, people like rap, a lot of records, their whole roster. And, you know, you had Luke down to Miami doing his thing. But all that was just, all that was, those were like the two real options until until we got into the mid-90s, you know, especially for southern rap music. You know, it's basically get a boy and a two-lock crew.

Yeah. Well, also, and I try to explain this to people, rap all. also had to get popular in the South. Like this was not, to me, rap by and large, was urban music. And most of the South at that point was not urban or even places. Like I always say, New Orleans is a hip hop city. Atlanta is a hip hop city.

Houston had to get there, right? And the rap in Houston that people were really into, obviously West Coast was big too, but it was stuff that was generated from there. But like, in the last dance, when you think about Michael Jordan, and Michael Jordan on the bus, listening to Kenny Ladle.

and like everything that we know about Michael Jordan's taste in music. It is clear. Michael Jordan wasn't listening to no rap. No. Michael Jordan is from Wilmington, North Carolina. It was not, that was not to jam around there. I always see Charles Barkley, he'll talk about how Public Enemy was his favorite rap group because they don't want that name checked you, right?

I'll throw it down your throat like Barkley. Chuck what? You think Chuck was out here in Leeds, Alabama? B-boying? No, not at all. No, no. He didn't care about layering samples, didn't care about the bond squad, nothing, you know what I'm saying?

No, no, like this was not, rap did not hit everywhere. Chicago, we talked about that's another place. That was a city where, like, rap did not just come and take over in the way that it did. Like, Planned Iraq, hit Atlanta, and, okay, now everything is different here, right? That didn't happen all across the country.

So there was an absolute building action of rap in the South that also included the building of what was the rap industry around the South. And so prior to 96, I guess what, 91 is my mind's playing tricks on me, which for my money. Like, I say that Bob's over Baghdad is like, it's the greatest rap single that's ever made. But my mind's playing tricks on me is the best Southern rap single, if that makes sense. Right. I get where you going. Yeah, like that one, that one means something.

And it was Houston. It was ridiculous, man. Like, that was the number one and the only one song. bro. I can only imagine what that was like, you know, during that time period in Houston. Yes. I know what it was like for me. You know, that was, uh, and to your point, like, back in the day during those times, um, I, you know, you were saying that rap music had to, you know, be kind of ushered in, you know, like radio at that time, especially urban radio,

a lot of urban radio stations wouldn't even play rap records. A lot of people, you know, it wasn't that long ago that rap music. was not being played, it was not being played on the radio in the place where it should have been being played on the radio. I remember there was a, there was this, uh, this really popular, uh, radio DJ who was in syndication named Walt Baby Love, right? He wouldn't play any rap. Uh, he had this like show called the count, there's some kind of weekend countdown or whatever, but he would, like, notoriously not play rap songs. And then it got to a point with rap music it was getting so popular that he was kind of backed into a corner

and kind of forced to play some rap music and even then he still resisted. He would only play the instrumentals. Yeah. Well, it was like the demise of Soul Train. Yeah. It's largely tied to the fact that Don Cornelius wasn't here for rap.

You weren't here for the rap music, man. You know? But that's, that, that end in and of itself is just a, it was a weird time because, you know, you want, you want to get the respect and admiration of those, you know, people who made the music or who you were inspired by and to have some of those people be like, that shit y'all doing ain't no music.

You know what I'm saying? They had to be, I think it was part, in one part, demoralizing for the artists that were making the music and also motivating because of the music, because the music that came that started to come after that and the angst and all the resistance and, you know, aggressiveness of rap music of that time period was probably born out of that, you know. Yeah, eventually it reached a place like my man said, I'll Sherba showcase that time.

Rap's a lot like condoms. I hate it, but I guess it's here to stay. It's here to stay, baby. Like, this is where we go. So as we talked about the South, the ghetto boys are the kind of foundational act. And look, a very important part of the ghetto boys getting so big, I mean, you can't forget this part, but rap is you often need some reasonable for iPhones to pay a measure of attention. And the ghetto boys did a song called Mind of a Lunatic that got them dropped from their label because it was just so ridiculous and over the top.

At which point Rick Rubin shows up like, ooh, controversy you say, right? Sised them to the label. But now they are known. Like it became very cool to say that you like the ghetto boys even within rap because they were a bit of a countercultural force, right? Rapa lot built itself up by the time 96 comes with three Scarface albums deep into this. You've got the Willie D catalog.

You've got a little big man by Bush. You know, they've got their things going. New Orleans has its own scene that's going. Atlanta has a scene that was largely based up until Outcast came around. Miami had one. Memphis had one. So all these things were kind of going around. But it was not yet to a point where you could reasonably expect

that you were going to hear a southern rapper, a southern record outside of the south. Yes. As 96 comes, and I also think underrated in this is the role that the source and just the general hip hop press also played in this.

We learned a lot about what was going on and rap in other places, truly by reading, right? Between that and Rap City, right? You know, and having people who covered, like, you know, unsigned hype column in the source and things like that that got you hit people in who worked in records, stores who might be able to put you on the game

or something that you would go here. But 96 comes around and we'll talk more about the records that come out in that year. But it's not like it was just a bunch of people that dropped for the first time. It was a lot of cats or a lot of acts that were putting out. It's the second Outcast album that year. It's the third UGK album. Third A Ball in MJG album, too.

Right, third A Ball and MJG by now has classic songs and classic album already. in the South. But even Brabaud and MJG, they got radio play in Houston with that third album that they weren't getting necessarily before. Like, it's all a slow build.

And to me, when we go through the acts, what we're going to talk about is what the future became. What's 1997 comes? I think the door really gets kicked down on what rap is. But like, we've already had the Goody Mob come out nationally.

We've already had Outcast breakthrough nationally and had videos that were a thing. But to me, and I'm curious your thoughts about this as you look at what the albums were that came out that year, it's still largely by the south for the south, but people would tap it in. Yeah, man. I think Outcast was probably the most palatable of all those, of all those acts that came out at that time. And I think they were, I think they were palatable because they reminded people of, they felt like in, you know, they felt like in,

an East Coast act like a De La or a Trial Car Quest or whatever but they also felt authentically southern two Southerners. You know what I'm saying? Like musically they had, you could tell

they had real just by the music that organized noise was making for Outcast at that time and the way that Big and Dre were rhyming. You could tell clearly that they were influenced by you know, the hip hop that was coming now in New York.

Trap called Quest in particular. In particular. In particular, you know. But the thing that made them different. And I'll be completely forthcoming here. When I was, like I told you, I graduated high school in 96, all through my high school years when I was like at my purest peak hip hop head form, I used to front like I was from New York.

walking around with a fake New York accent and all that kind of stuff you know rhyme you know only listening to main source and all that you know thinking that was the way to

thinking that was the way to go when Timble is in the sum all kind of dumb shit like that you know but when Outcast came out and they were they were rhyming the way I like to hear people rhyme and they were rhyming over music

that was still sort of jazzy but it was musical. The music had, you know, real musicality to it instead of just a sample and a drum loop, you know? Right.

And then I heard them speak. And I was like, oh, they got Braves jerseys on. I ain't got to wear a New York hat. Oh. And I was like, oh, man, they sound like, I actually talk for real when I'm around my cousins. Right. It was like a, it was almost like a liberating experience for me.

to see somebody like that do the thing that I loved, you know? And that's why I say Alcast is probably the most palatable act of all those that to come through. And I think that kind of opened a wide range of possibilities for other people to come through. Like, you know, you got, you know, like you said, Goody Mob came right after. It was like, okay, okay, Goody Mob, they're, they're all brand new here. the the dudes that are really street dudes but are that have something up here in their head too also

and they want to they want to make sure that all of us are all right you know and you know those those kind of acts and uh even even and it wasn't they were different because they weren't just the the the uh the uh baseline of like the booty shaking bass acts where that music was all about party and it was nothing that it was on that's what it was about right now

and they that outcast Goody Mob that era gave us a little bit of substance you know and Ballin G and UGK you know that was like you know I I liked what I heard but I didn't I couldn't really relate

because you know I was I was a kid I wasn't selling drugs you know what I was you know yeah especially when we started talking about the 94 point of this, right? Because you raised an interesting point there that I had not really thought about, and I've seen people talk about this with relation to the godfather and mobsters, that there was no, there was not a look.

Like, cats didn't know how they, like, the cats that in the game, in that game, didn't know how they was supposed to look at how they was supposed to sound. Like, they were presented now with a template that came from this movie that had a bit of a like sartorial and cultural influence down on that game, right? there wasn't a look or necessarily a hip hop. If you were a hip hopper from the South, there wasn't a style that matched up with it. You had to really go borrow.

You either had to go borrow for what they was doing up north or you had to go borrow over from that West Coast stuff that may or may not have you out here looking like you gangbag. Right? Which also for some places in the South, like Roy Wood talks about he became a big fan of the dolphins and the Charlotte Hornets because no gangs

were affiliated with their colors. Yeah. That's a real thing, bro. Yeah, like that was the thing that's going to Chicago, you know what I'm saying? Coming back, learning some, you know,

with some things that they learned or whatever. But the South didn't, there wasn't a template so much for what it was supposed to be at that time. And for me, I think every teenager to a degree has this feeling of, like,

ostracism from the world, right? It's just naturally. And so for me, it was like, in Atlanta. I grew up in Houston, and I grew up way out in Houston to where, like, what the ghetto boys is rapping about did not relate to me at all.

Like, I didn't, I didn't know that. You weren't in the fifth war like that, huh? No, no, but I did know where Camberton Road was. Okay. I did know, although the Outcast records were like, oh, wow, right? Then I went to college and you started hearing stuff. So, like, off ATLAs was drops in 96. You know, we wrote the 86 Lathonia. Hey, I just saw that go by. That's a bus.

Oh, okay, right? Like the code was cracked to a degree on what it was. And so I thought Southern Playlistic was interesting because to me, that is kind of sort of like Atlanta chronic, right? In terms of the sound, the live instrumentation, it is as perfectly produced a record as there has ever been, you know, a couple more things. There's a heavy tribe influence.

And look, man, they're also 17 years old, which I don't think we give them enough credit for in terms of like the greatness of the record. Like they're really young. Teenagers. Yeah, and that is not a teenage record, right? It's a- By any means. No, like, they nailed it.

But 80 aliens drop. And to me, I don't know if you felt this way when it came out, but the sound of me felt more like what I would have considered to be an East Coast record. And it wasn't really so much

that it was an East Coast record as much as it was a dark record. You know what I think that is? It's because a lot of people, and I was talking about this, to someone last night, people don't realize that Outcasts are all, that they were actually making that music themselves, you know? And A.T. Ellins was their first time where they handled the majority of production and not, and it wasn't completely like Southern Playlistsic, that's an organized noise record, right? Yes.

A.T. Ellins is probably the first fully formed straight up Outcast record where they're getting their complete vision off, musically and lyrically, you know. So I think the shift and the reason that that album is so moody and dark is because they got their chance to express themselves a way that they wanted to express themselves without a complete direction from organized noise. Right. Well, and a big part of that mood was we are Baroque. Yep.

Right? Even after that album, yep. To me, this is a record that I don't think anybody would make if it came out now because you can't admit to being broke anymore, right? JZ made it impossible for you to rap about, like, really rap about like, hey man, we really ain't got no money, right?

Like, why am I listening to somebody who doesn't have any money? Like, Jay Z and Ronald Reagan combined one out. This record was like, yo, we went platinum. Everything was jamming. All I got is enough cash that lasts me to the end of the week. I live by the beat like you live, check, check to check.

We ain't got no money. Big boys, Mama died. Yep. Like the whole through and so when you go... And he's about to have a son? Yes. The daughter. No, the daughter was born right before this record came out.

Oh, okay, okay. That's what it was. But no, but this was, like, I did not have a concept at the time that it came out of just how young they were. And I really had the idea now, like, Big Boys 19 years old with AT aliens. That means Andre's like 18 going on 19. or just gets around there when this comes out.

They are super young, and these are some, like, for real deal, adult fiends from top to bottom in all of this. All through that record. Right, and it's musically great, but it's not, it don't jam the way Southern Playlistic did. Like, it felt very similar to a lot of second albums

that you have from people, right? Like, there's the youthful energy that comes in album number one, and now this is real life in album number two. Yeah, it's grounded. The next one is grounded, because you got thrust in the real life because of the success of the youthful exuberance. You know what I mean?

It's a, that record, man, like stuff like, 13th floor and Decatur song, bro, those, those records are deep. You know what I mean? Yes.

I mean, millennium. Yeah. Man, bro. And it's not just, and it's not just them. Like, you know, you got people like Cool Breeze, like telling these vivid tales

about how he's trying to keep himself safe while actively being, you know, in the dope game. You know what I'm saying? And he's giving you these vivid pictures of all these other players that came, that he saw, you know, get caught up. And it's like, bro, I mean, I just want to be crumbling herb again.

Yeah, I'm saying. You know? But it didn't, it wasn't it was. I mean, that stuff was awesome. It was a completely different theme. But it worked, though. It worked for the time. I think for the time and for them,

and it worked so well because I believe that they were, like I said, they were given the opportunity to present themselves with complete authenticity. Yeah. Well, there are also some incredibly creative records on here, right? And I want to be clear for everybody, the songs that were produced by Outcast versus the organized noise joints.

The ones that Outcast did, AT aliens, wheels of steel, elevator, and E.T. And E.T. so wild, it was years before it hit me that there are no drums. Right? Like, E.T. has no drums.

The hook on Millennium is just humming. Right? The idea that elevators was a hit single. The first single. That's what they led me. first single. And it was, I mean, look, it's a great hook, right? Like me and you, your mama and your cousin, too. But also, oh my God. It's, it's, so Wiley and I got to share in one of the greatest days of my life, which is September 2014, the Outcast shows in Atlanta. And I ain't just bought up a zillion tickets. And I was just like, anybody who needed a ticket, you can buy any of the homies need a ticket. You can buy one for me. I had one left. I called Wiley that day. I'm like, hey, man, what's you all today? They ain't doing nothing. You try to.

to come to this Outcast show. Bro, I was sad that day, too, because I was like, I was like, man, I live, I was like, how's it that I live in Atlanta? And Outcast finally is doing a show in Atlanta, and I ain't going to be able to go. You can't do in the clutch, man. That was, like, bro, that, man,

I was in the worst moods. I'm like, oh, I'm about to miss it. And then you call, you're like, hey, man, what's happening? And you're like, you're trying to go see Cass. I'm like, hell, yeah, I'm trying to go see Cass. It never dulled. A, that you wouldn't be there, but B, I ain't just have seats.

I had the great seats. The great seats, bro. That was a fantastic date. Oh my God, that was so good. I still look at the pictures, but I will always remember because I never loved the elevator's remix. Oh, the, uh,

with the parliament sample. Oh. Until I went to those shows and they would play it and the bass hit harder on that, bo-doop, the coming out of the rain sample. It was the hardest bass that I had ever heard. But like, top to bottom, there's so much going on in this record.

first two Outcast Records do not have a song that you can say, I don't really fucking. Nah. They don't have a single one. Nah, they're all good. They're all good. You know what I mean? No, it is, it was, I could go, we could have done a whole hour on this one.

The intro. The You May Die intro, just like, why did you think this was a good idea? I might want to be clear. It is. Yeah. It's a perfect idea. Yo, man, shout out to, uh, uh, Debra. killings, man, who they, that kind of made a lot of those, these records that we're talking about.

Yes. You know, her, her vocals. And then, you know, she's a, like a virtuous, virtuoso bassist. She plays, she's a great bass player. And her contribution to these records, man, are made them what they are. And the reason why we love them so much is doing large part to her contributions to these records, man. Because, like, that you made that intro, like, her, her, vocal, her vocal is like so piercing.

Just like, and you're like, who is that singing? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, we don't forget Joy on that one too. Yes, yes. Yeah, shout out to the hall girl, Joy. We love Joy over here, man. That's the, you know, yeah. Another Tennessee legend.

I hope she ain't never wearing that orange. Oh, man, probably not. Not black Nashville. I don't know if they, I don't know if they involved in the war. That's I was about to say. That's Joe Gilliam daughter. It's a different lawyer. Joe Gilever's daughter and Joe Gileven's dad is granddaughter.

That's a difference in a loyalty's. Yeah, 100%. That go all over there. But man, no, no, no. Like this one, it was so wild about 96. 96 is so cold. Like when we get to the whole year, that may be my favorite of them Southern records,

but it is not my favorite record of 96. I do know, though, they definitely of them Southern records. My top two are that one. And UGK. Ride and Dirty, which... Oh, man. Oh, man. Ride dirty. I remember hearing Bud on the radio that summer

when Brian Dirty come out. I think he was all with Manhattan. And it was like, Ryan Dirty means. He's like, hey, man, you know, you're in your car. Got a little something you're not supposed to have. Maybe you're riding dirty. Like, he was just trying to give all the explanation of riding dirty. And so UGK.

They always make a point, or Bun always made a point that UGK had Houston in a different way because Houston is two cities and one. It's the north side and it's the south side, but since they were from Port Arthur, they could traffic in both. There was no antagonism toward them on either side. So they were like the thing that everybody could agree on,

and especially at a time where like North Side rap, like Swisher House has not come around, right? It's not exactly the same thing. Riding Dirty is the one, like that's one of Jay Z's favorite records, for example. Riding Dirty went gold with no singles and no videos. It was purely only only on. the basis of the heat that they had.

I was talking to bud about this the other day, that that was like, that's the Pimp C-N-O-Joe record because Pimp was always so good at collaborating with people. And he was like, Joe had the sound that Pimp was trying to get, right? And so this is the one where, if I'm not mistaken, Pimp's got the guitar player from the meters showing up to play in his living room, you know, to get them jams off. But look, that record is what it is.

And not just saying this because it's the homie, we alluded to this a little bit earlier. B. decided I am going to set everything on a fire on this album. Like one man

being better song for song for song for song for song on one album it is hard to find anybody that ever spoke an album like Bunn spoke that album start to finish

and murder like the first all right so the first full track is one day you hit next day you go right that was Bun appropriate for the situation. That was not a time for your rapidy, rapidity rapids. To go crazy. Murder right after it, though.

Specifically designed for him to go crazy. And murder has an argument for like, greatest rap verse all time. Like murder versus on the level of Biggie victory versus. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That is that is a quintessential rap verse that I believe if you are going to study as an MC.

If you, if you care at all at being good at rapping, that is a verse that you should study. Yes. You know what I'm saying? Because there's so much, there's so much, so much going on. The way he, the way he, the way he, it's like building blocks. It's like he's building, like, he keeps building steps and going a level higher and a level higher and a level higher.

You know what I mean? Bro, it's, it's so amazing. And, and it starts, and it. It starts like, you know, it kind of starts at the ground floor, you know. Because I'm the king of moving chickens, not the finger-licking. As soon as he says chicken, it starts. And it just keeps going. It just keeps ascending and ascending.

And, you know, I've had the, I have the fortunate pleasure to DJ'd and open up a bun numerous times. And every time I see him perform that verse, even now in 2026 or 2025, when the last time I saw him do it, it's still mind-blowing that he was able to stack words in that way. It's so good, bro. Yeah, and it's the beginning of a 10-year run of flat-out excellence from this dude, right? Like, I mean, he blazed every track on there.

And when it was time to slow it down or chill it out and make it something more introspective because the genius of Pempsie is recognizing the need of that emotional resonance and that level of introspection. Like you had to balance off the gangster shit with some measure of regret, right? Like something over the other side of it. That was like the big Pimp C thing. Man, Bunn kills all of it. And then Pimsy, the brilliance of Pempsi and Bun and said this on this show was clarity.

Yeah. And what no mystery as to what that dude was talking about. You can say you did. Like, what about New York Binders always be like, I don't understand what he's talking about. I'm like, okay, I mean, English. I thought that we all were speaking it, but maybe you don't. Okay, cool. But every Pepsi line, he hits, nobody ever meant every word they said.

More than that, too. He meant every single thing he ever said. You know what I'm saying? And that balance you speak of, man, it's on display. Just in these first two songs we talk about, literally the first song is mourning the loss of being in the business that you end. And the next song is talking about killing somebody. Yes.

Figuratively, not literally, but you know what to be? So, hey, bro, that record, and, you know, I know the only promo 12 inch from that record that I ever saw, and the only, the only clean version of, like a proper clean version that was released on 12 inch that I've ever seen is, what they had to change the name to ride, car. But that's literally the only promo single that I've ever seen from that album, ever. I don't know if there's anymore, but that's the only one that I've ever seen. So, yeah. My under, my underrated

jam on there is good stuff. That was good. Oh, Pinker Rain might be the one for me, man. Man, see, I feel like I don't even, it's hard for me to even think a Pinker Ring is underrated, because I feel like Pinker Ring and Murder feel like the same song because they run together. Yeah. So, so, so, and Bud, Buzz, flow on that. is so easy. Like he's still killing it like he did on murder, but it's just so easy the way that he hit it. If murder,

if murder's the Bun B song, I think Pinky Ring is the Pimp C song. Yes. You know what I mean? For that album, you know, where, you know, I mean, they're both, obviously on all the records together, but I think Pinky Ring is the most pimpsyish song.

Ooh, see, that's, fuck my car feels like that. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah, because he's, He was, man. He was talking crazy, reckless. The only way you ever see him, seeing my passenger seat.

Like, oh my God, man. Why are we? Hey, man. He laid it all that done, man. He did. But I'm coming down candy. I'm putting in the work. Got my $10,000 link medallion hanging off my $2,000 shirt.

The game being good. All the girls want to ride on leather and the wood. Nothing. A woman, baby. Oh, my God. That's the problem with this. We'll just sit up here and just do verses off of this one the whole day. The whole day.

You know what? Like, that's the one. Like, how many people, you know, when Jay-Z, what was that, off a touch with Jay-Z on the Black album? Like, he wasn't jacking it. It was obviously an homage, right? But this was one that, like, if you heard it, you knew. Yeah, you knew.

And then Pimp goes to jail for a stretch, as I recall. It was like, no, this is the record label stretch where they didn't come out for five years. Mm-hmm. This was the beef with jive. Man, I got a homie, uh, Just Sledge that that was at Jive at the time. I need to like ask him about that. You know what I mean?

You know, they tell the story about, I've seen an interview where they went to, when they first signed with Jive, they went to the offices and they saw KRS1. You know, B is a absolute KRS1 disciple. And they were so excited and KRS1 was like, I don't know, dog. You imagine that? I can only imagine, man. you know, just that never never meet your heroes type thing.

No, but it wasn't not never meet your heroes. It was your hero was telling you this record label ain't shit. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I misunderstood what you were saying. No, no, I got you. I'm following now. Well, I mean, Chris would know.

Yeah, yeah. But now, this is a record that felt like something. And at every turn, this is a record that felt like something. And I will clarify this right now because some of y'all really don't know this. No, that is not right. Ron Isley singing the hook on one day. On one day.

They did not have that kind of budget to make that record. But shout out, I think my man's name was Roddy Spencer. Great, great, great impression. Yeah. You did your job well, buddy. I put it like this. He sound as much like Ron Isley on that song as Ron Isley sound like Ron Isley on Project Window by Nause.

That's pretty accurate. Yeah. To me, the side that it wasn't around Isley is that his first word was fool. There's nothing, that's nothing more Houston that you can do to call somebody fool. Hey, fool. Hey, man, my brother, because my brother, who is not from Houston, hey, man, you're going to get enough of call to be a fool. I'm like, that's what we do. Yeah, that's what we do, man. It's like people from New Orleans how they call each other, bitch.

Yes. I was around, you know, I spent a lot of time around currency and fiend, probably about 10 or so years ago when I was touring on the road. And all of them, like their whole crew is from New Orleans. And, you know, you build camaraderie when you're amongst, you know, your tourmates or whatever. And they were throwing that bitch word around like it wasn't nothing. Yeah.

And I was like, I didn't understand it. And I had to be explained to me. You know what I mean? I was like, yo, I was like, they're just like, he's just going to call you. You just going to let me call you bitch like that. Yo, it's like a number one stunt. I was like, damn, what my guy would do to you? I'm saying.

I don't even understand. But hey, coming up next, we got more to get to including a whole lot was going on in Tennessee in the South in 1996. All right. Ever wanted to go to the NBA finals? Where now's your chance, courtesy of fan duel. All you have to do is use your profit boost on an NBA future, and you'll be entered for a shot to win an NBA finals trip for two.

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All right. We are back with DJ Wiley Sparks talking about Southern Rap in the year 1996. We talked a little bit about this on a previous episode, but this is also the year the Masterpiece Ice Cream Man comes out. And to me, the idea of no limit as a southern operation is a little tricky. And the reason I say it's a little tricky is this is also very much like Midwestern West Coast music. Like in this record in particular with the video with the ice cream truck on Dayton's, which them boys from the Bay will quickly tell you, Master P did not come up with by himself.

But it almost feels like a semantic argument because it hit in the South. He was talking about New Orleans very much. So it landed in the South. The best song on there is a PEMC beat. And it is the first sign that No Limit is going to have staying power. Yeah. I think Ice Cream Man was kind of like the last Bay Area influence,

No Limit record. and also the first No Limit album that signified that it was about to be, you know, that we need to take this guy serious, you know. Because it was, you know, it's got all the shine and gloss of like a, for what a major label rap album was in 1996, that it had not been previously there. Like, you know, if you know anything about No Limits catalog,

like their first, like, the stuff from the early 90s, when Pee was operating in Richmond, California. Like, the graphic design left a lot to be desired. You know what I'm saying? And the Ice Cream man looked like there was some effort put into it, you know, to? And it had, it had all the sheen that indicated that we're about to try and sell some records for real now, you know? And using outside production, like a, like a PEMC and having, and, you know, creating a record, like break them off. was also a indicator that, yeah, man,

we're about to really, really try and sell some records here. Yeah. And I imagine this happens to you sometimes as a DJ. I played this song that was jamming earlier, but it wasn't enough people in this party to really set it off when I played it. But now it's a few more people here, so I'm going to play it again and watch what we do. And that's what happened with Body Body Body, Body, part two came out. Like I actually realize there's a lot of people I think that have never heard about it,

about it, part one. Yeah. Because bite a bite of part two is the one where people like, hey, wait a minute. Also, heavy marketing in the source. Yeah. Yep. Nobody pushed their records. Yeah, nobody pushed their records harder.

And it was also the beginning of P. And this is a very for better or worse situation to me, man. This song got 78 minutes worth of music, man. He was just dropping everything off on the records that he possibly could, hoping that you would come across something that you liked. And if you got something that you liked, okay, cool. Now we got a chance here. Oh, fun fact about Bada Bada Part 2.

Mia X is on that one, right? If you listen to that song really closely, she's rapping two completely different verses at the same time. Say more. I mean, that's it. When we rap, you should go listen to that song. She's literally rapping. Like, it sounds like she's doing ad-libs to the verse

that's coming through clearer. But she's actually rapping completely different verses. She's wrapping two words at the same time. So two verses are laid down on top of each other is what you're telling me. Mm-hmm. But it worked. It worked. Wow.

It's actually kind of creative, man. And now I think about it. I have a fun of me an X story. I'll share with you offline. But it's a real fun story. She's a wonderful, wonderful woman. She can wrap her ass off, too. Yes, she can.

Yes, she can. Like it's really easy to love, no, no, no. She could wrap her ass off. She probably, probably top three, for sure, top five in the No Limit, you know, as far as all the no limit artists. But she might be top three in No Limit, you know what I mean? I have a lot of criticisms of the No Limit catalog. But No Limit had this weird thing where the more famous you were, the less like good at rapping.

You probably were, but they had a lot of dudes on there that could really rap. They just weren't nearly as big. I mean, mystical, mystical's eyes, because mystical was somebody before he got there, mystical was somebody after he left. That's the greatest free agent acquisition

than the history of rap. But yes. A better free agent acquisition for them than Snoop was. Yep, 100%. But a fiend? Yep. Mac. Mac?

That's where I was going next. Sold Slim. Damn, it's really still messed up with happened to Matt. Yeah. I'm glad he out though, man. Y'all back making music. You know, I saw him playing the piano the other day, a video I'm playing the piano. I was like, I had no idea you had that in you, brother. But like even Serval, like, Serval could go. He could rhyme. Skull Duggery could go. Yeah. The Millers, they. The brothers. See, Murder wasn't that bad. He wasn't that bad of a rapper. He was out of the three, out of the three Miller brothers, I think C. Murder was

was the best rapper. Yes. However, What was he doing? I'm gonna just rap like Pock again. What y'all think? Hey, hey, whatever works, buddy. Hey, look, with PFC, it all fell down because y'all was biting too much Pock. You know, keeping in mind,

they'd have some other beef. Right. Hey, man, might have an argument. They might have. But that's still, hey, man, regardless of what I might think about some of that, that record was hugely important because I know cats I went to school with,

they loved it. They loved every bit of it. Like the real jump off is 97, right? True to the game comes out. And to me, that's the one where it's like, oh, okay. Now this is the thing. Yeah. That is quintessential.

Ice cream, man, true to the game. Ghetto Dote. And, uh... Charge you the game? Yeah, those probably the most quintessential no limit albums. You know, those. Those are the ones where, you know, if you need like a crash course on no limit

and why they were what they were and what they, you know, what they meant to Southern rap overall, those would be the albums I suggested, you know, people would get into. Yeah, well, I also tell you this, because we had put together, you had kindly put together a spreadsheet of records from that year. You specified the UNLV uptown for life record, which is cash money before people knew cash money was a thing. Yep, that's why, though, because that's the, that's, you know, that's like the, the genesis of the cash money movement that was, that was forthcoming. You know what I mean? And, you know, that's also one of those ones where, you know, I remember being, uh, working at the, the music shop that I was working in. And that, that record used to fly off the shells, bro. You used to fly off the shells. But you could tell that it was. And, you could tell that it was. You know, was also a step up from their previous output where people were starting to get serious.

Like, I think, I think what was happening, because, you know, sound scan didn't become a thing until like the 90s. And then, you know, people started to understand what sound scan was and and how you could track and how you could leverage the numbers that you, the numbers that you are getting through via sound scan reports and realize that they can make some real bread and was like, yeah, we're about to sell these records for real. We got to take this really, really serious and we have to take some greater initiative into stepping up the quality of our product.

And I think uptown for life was like that. You know what I'm saying? As far as, you know, how the cash money moving was going. You know, the guys of you and LV they were, they were still being who they were. And the records were who they were. The records are awesome. You know, drag him in the rivers,

obviously to stand out from that album. All time. And a badass yellow boy, if you don't know this by the actual title. you know what I'm saying? And, bro, that record,

that album and that record being on that album is what kind of pushed cash money forward as a, as sort of a, at that time, a new player, sort of like an intermediate player in what was going on in, and national rap music at the time.

Like they had already been solidified. regionally for quite some time with the early BG stuff and you know, the early juvie, early juvie stuff and Miss T and all that kind of stuff, all those records. But that UNLV record, man, that was a legitimate step forward

and for what became cash money as we know it to date. Right. And then 96 was a crazy year for Memphis. Right. And I hadn't really thought about it until you had pointed out like all these records that come out. Three Six Mafia Chapter 1 comes out that year. Tila, Peace of Mind comes out that year. Abbaugh and MJG on top of the world comes out that year. Now, it's interesting because with Abon, MJG and Three Six Mafia, who I think we'd all agree, those are like Hall of Fame acts at this point.

These are not their best records. It's got like some singles, but these are not their best records. Three Six Mafia, though, and what I think is so interesting, about them is there's no way that we would have known 30 years ago that you can make an argument that DJ Paul and Juicy Jay have been as influential, if not more, than anybody else or what the sound to rap music has become in the 21st century. I made a post on Twitter years ago back when I used to engage in rap discussion on Twitter. I don't do that anymore because I like my life.

But I made the point that three, six, my, I just, I just, just blurted this out. and tweeted it for the reaction. I said, 3-6 Mafia is the most influential rap group of all time. And, man, the pushback that I got from that, but then, you know, as time went on, people start, you know, I started listing all these things that were happening right then at the time. This is I made two or three years ago that would, that had a direct line, a direct line to 36 Mafia.

they were like oh well maybe maybe this isn't as far as fast as I thought but I mean you could you can start with the whole you know bone might have jacked our style situation hey man hey that's that's that's been a longstanding debating hip hop you know who who did who did that type of style first you know they are adamant it was them I know both both sides both sides are adamant they were the beginning. Live by your rep is still out there. Would you name an album Live by your rep and

then in the album title you put in parentheses, bone dis. Yeah, just there's nothing more Memphis, dad. I can't leave this for you to figure out. I need to tell you exactly. There is no more straightforward catalog

than the 36 mafia. There are no more straightforward song titles. Like, what is that 36 Mafia song about? It says it. What's let's plan a robbery about? Well, they're going to plan a robbery. Oh, man. One of my favorite three six mafia songs is on that,

the chapter one album of the where's the bud? You know what I'm saying? Yes. It's the bud. That's one of my favorite, favorite three six, five albums. But in line with what you saying, man,

you know exactly what that song's about. Jare the club up. What do you think, guys? You know exactly what these records are about. Break the law. But I don't think there was any way to know where this was going. Because like the next year is when Ted a Club Up comes out. And then they just consistently put something out about once a year,

you know, club songs at a time where what a song was for the club was completely changing. My brother always said, because, you know, it was all in places that couldn't play Tedd a club up because it became a liability issue. My brother was like, yeah, how about you play a song called Tell Your Own Shit Up? Right? Because we're not playing that in my establishment. But I got threatened with a citation for playing that record once by a Chattanooga police officer. I was in this club called A Whole Note.

This is early in my career. And I would, you know, something happened. There was, you know, fights in the club were just kind of normal. But for whatever reason, this fight was a little bit, you know, a little bit extra. And then it did. The cop came in, cleared everybody out. And, you know, I'm still, I still got like a record on the turntables or whatever. And the dude came up there.

And, you know, he wrote something on a notepad and was like, I'm going to give you a ticket if you want to turn this business. You know, and I'm like, uh, I, yes, sir, officer. You know what I'm saying? And we believed them. Yeah. Yeah, man. That was great. Let's start a ride in the club.

Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. I mean, it would happen sometimes. You know what I mean? Yes, no, that was the thing. It was on the board. That's the beauty of saying what it's saying exactly what you mean and meaning exactly what you say. Yeah.

You might get the repercussions of your, of what you're talking about right in front of your face. Now, say it in Tennessee, on top of the world, Abol, MJG came out that year. I don't really love that record, but it don't, I mean, like, it's not a bad album, right? He's got Space Age Pippin, though. He has got, but it's got Space Age Pippin on it. That was all I was going to say, but it's got Space Age Pippin. On the list of flawless, perfect records, it's right there. Mm-hmm.

Underrated T-Mix, also, underrated producers. Yes, more 100% and I agree. You played, you had Space Age Pippen at your wedding, right? Yes, I did. You know, yes, I did. It was those were fun times, you know. While it's so hip-hop, was it. Was it shook ones too?

No, I give up the goods. Give up the goods, okay. Yeah. Yeah, the woman I married at the time, she's a super, super, super mob deep fan. And, you know, me, I had to keep a player, so, you know, it was one for her, one for me. I mean, I got to say, man,

give up the goods. It's kind of an ominous record to play all the way into that. That's that, that's that, Andy. Yeah. Yeah, but hey, it worked out. You know, we still cool. You know, we have a really good co-parents relationship, man. And I do enjoy having a hardcore hip-hop head and also an incredible DJ as a co-parent department.

I just remember the first time I heard Space Age Pipp, and I was like, hold on, y'all made a slow jam. Like, not just anybody. That's a little bit of love song. Yeah. You too made a full-on. slow jam love song and it's perfect dog man

what's more romantic than saying you know would you steal for me if that shit belonged to you yeah I'm saying can't get no more romantic to that dog I'd be obliged if you step aside because my ride is waiting

to tell how well we raise hell on the Disney hey man MJG I I was floored to find out that there were people who did not think that MJG was the best rapper in 8-ball and MJG.

And it's, because look, the solo catalog, eight balls got that, right? Like, 8-ball makes really good records. But when he's all, people better at rapping than MJG. Not too many. You know, it's not too many. You know, he'd be getting busy.

Like, for real, for real. And, you know, that's the thing about the hip-hop influence from, like, the originators, people in New York on the East Coast and how they influence people like us down south, it's clear that Ball and G care about being good rappers. You know what I mean? And the way that they rhyme is evident if you just listen to it, you know? And I just don't think the music that they was rapping on was suitable to the people that

had the ink pens that could put words in magazines at the time. But if you took the time to listen to MJG Ryan, there's no way you can come away from that saying that he's not a high-level MC. Yeah. You can't listen to R robbery and lay it down. I mean, those verses are incredible. They're incredible. Get your head swore bringing me check.

Bramey cat I was like, oh. Bro. Man. And another cat from Memphis Tila, who we're talking about, he's like that. Teela, Tila's a fantastic rapper. Yeah.

You know, and Pee, I don't think he gets credit enough for how good of a rapper he actually is. Well, I mean, he got one of the greatest songs ever. Show Nuff is one of the greatest songs ever, right? Tide of Ballin is one verse too long, but tied a ball and like goes hard. I think it got tricky for him because of, you know, he had a little label dispute

that involved him getting chased out of his own house through his garage. Oh, you know what? I know that happened, but I don't recall the story. Well, it's in a song. They came in my garage. I think he was having a problem with Swive House. He wound up on rap a lot.

And as the song puts it, basically he pulled up in his garage, them cats pulled up behind him, and he just kept going. It drove through the garage. I got to get up out of here. Yeah, yeah, like I can't stay. Like, there's reverse is not going to work here.

All right. I got to go forward, baby. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I got to, because that second record, that's the one that's got table dance on it. Mm-hmm. Which somehow underrated joint. But, um, and again,

this, A ball and MJG pop up again. We start talking about show enough. Yeah, the table dance won't be showing up part. basically. I can see what they were going for. But yeah, there's all, sometimes it's hard to beat the original. But what I think is interesting in looking back on it, and maybe it's just because 96 was so crowded and so much stuff had come out, there were all these different years at points where like a city breaks out for whatever reason, right?

So I think like 04, I can't remember if it was 04 or 05, I think it was 04. It's like the Houston breakout, right, with Slim Thug, Paul Wall, Millionaire, like all these cats now, you know, there's an emergence of like that screw sound comes out. Atlanta, 94 and 95 is like, oh, is their time? It did not, it never felt like Memphis got the props for 96 really being the time that they were coming out. Or maybe it's because those albums didn't get as big in that time

and it was more of a slow burn. But that's really the emergence of one of the truly important sounds in the history of the genre because, look, Memphis influences Atlanta sounds so much, right? Like, not just that straight 36 Mafia to Gucci Man line that, you know, and that line to the Migos and all of that stuff. It's not just simply that, but that kind of mid-tempo, aggressive mid-tempo music is the foundation of Little John. Yeah, 100%.

You know, the 70BPM, the 8-bpm range that kind of Little John lived in, who also, you know, he got his start in 962 and then what? Soso Devon Base All-Stars. Yeah, well, just him, just Little John, the Eastside boys, too. That was all 96. And to think about you going from like who you would, who you would get crunk, who you wit, to literally producing Usher's biggest record within a six-year time frame.

You know what I mean? You know, that goes to show the kind of influence that the Memphis sound. It goes, you know, you have that Memphis sound. You have Little John's version of it that becomes the Little John sound. And then the Little John sound becomes the dominant sound. not just on urban radio, but in pop radio too. Right. So that's that, you know, that's that through line that, that, you know, even you can, you

can, you know, direct it kind of back to Three Six Mafia, kind of, but, oh, but just the sound of Memphis music from the mid-90s and all the way until the early 2000s to get it from that point to that point. Hey, man, you know, that shows the type of, the real level of influence that was going to going on. Hey man, let me tell you why I appreciate the emergence of Memphis in that way and why I find them to be very, very important. Because as a brother that can't dance, I don't know if you can dance. I don't get busy. Okay. I mean, I'm a little older now, so my joints don't work like they used to, but I get busy. Yeah, and man, your synapses and

nerve-in is ain't as long as mine. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's a lot. It's a like, big and, like, big and lanky, man, that ain't like, we got a lot going. all. Like I fuck around and start dancing. I look like the end of good times. I like the motherfucker at the get your taxes done shit in the wind. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you know, like, it's not, I don't, it's not really what I do.

It's not great. That Memphis thing allowed, hey, rather than dance, I can aggressively mimic fighting with my friends. Number one, that was helpful. But number two, kept that at a BPM that I could traffic it. Right on. Right. Kept it in a space where like, oh, I can do this. I ain't really got to move my feet.

All right, this is perfect. This is it. So when's the fellas starting getting riding with each other, they still wanted to dance two and two so you can just slide over and, you know? Yep. Make a little something happen. Memphis did that for us.

Because look, man, them Atlanta cats, man. They're some dancing motherfuckers over there, man. Oh, yeah. They be in there practicing in the mirror with their home boys, getting ready for the party and stuff. And I'm from Houston. We don't. That's not for us.

That is, that is, no, that's not for us. everything slowed down in Houston, man. Yes, yes. Like, I can't fully explain the point that I make until we get off of here. But we ain't the ones that's supposed to be out here dancing. That's the, that's the ethos of that word right there. Like, I have not here to amuse you. That's the context in which we view dancing.

Not here to amuse you people. Mm-hmm. I get it. But that's where it was, man. Look, South in 96, and again, 97, it really goes. Like, I was in Atlanta, in college in 97. And it was like, now the New Yorkers are starting to put, you know, like Master P is on the 432 on remix, for example.

They are having to acknowledge that what we had going down there was actually real. You know, they started moving so many records, because that was the part that nobody could ignore and deny. Master P makes to cover the source. I want to say September or October. of 97. Make them say, uh, becomes a hit. They at the, the, the video music awards, the tank performing. It was impossible to see that coming one year before. Bro, you know I'm a big wrestling fan. Master P was, was literally on WCW television wrestling, Kurt Henning and Barry Windham.

With the soldiers, with his whole, with a stable of no-limit soldiers. Yeah. That was out there. Like, no, all of it, everything changed in terms of how we've, Jay Z, you need it, I got his shit. That down south, masterpeed, body, body shit. You know what I'm saying? Look, man, the secret sauce for Jay-Z was showing us a little love. Yep, acknowledging. That was, that was, the acknowledgement has always been Jay-Z.

And we repaid it. Yep. We repaid it. He even brought that terrible verse on the high remix. Oh, yeah. Just to show us that he cared. Yep. Right?

Just to show us that. Sounds like it got fluent, row. sound like you just just recorded something. It sounded like he was doing it without a beat. Yeah. That's, there is what it sounded like to be honest with you. Yeah, like, hey, hey, those are drums. Like, you can't, you know,

I thought they said she was the best. He might not have understood the man of fresh drones right then, because you know, them drums, that that record was, was like, unlike anything ever. There's nothing, like, it is underrated how nothing else sounds like that. Nothing. Like, it is

a truly, I mean, it's a different year different discussions. That is a truly revolutionary single that like everything has changed now, because I will say this, I don't think any Southern rap act off the rip. And look, that's not the first juvenile anything, right? But for purposes of this discussion, they didn't have to earn being taken seriously. In spite of how out there that video seemed to people and gold teeth and everything else, they immediately got taken seriously. And it is really because of the framework that had been built by all these records that we're talking about getting us to this time.

Hey, man, that is my man, DJ Wally Sparks. Twitch.tv.tv slash DJ Wiley is an incredible DJ on top of having all this knowledge. He put that into action with his hands. Go check him out anytime he's out there spinning, if he's in your city spinning, check out arts beats and lyric, whatever it is. Go check him out.

We got one more episode coming with him later. We'll be going to talk about the West Coast. My brother, I appreciate you. Right on. Thank you for having, man. Like I said, man, I enjoy this. I'm glad we get to do it in this kind of form now. Yeah, man.

You don't do it anyway. Right, right, right. We might as well let the people share with us. And ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us here on the right time. We do this four times a week. Ryan Brumley handles everything behind the scenes. Thank you, sir. Hit the voicemail line 3-23-96-77-67.

Remember, follow the right time. Subscribe, like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. We'll talk to you guys in a couple of days. Take it easy.