The Right Time with Bomani Jones - Colin Kaepernick Took a Knee...The Media Wasn’t Ready | Bomani Jones & Jason Goff

Episode Date: August 20, 2026

Bomani Jones is joined by Jason Goff for the second episode of a historical retrospective series looking back at Colin Kaepernick, a decade after his initial protest. In this episode, Bo and Jason focus the conversation on the pivotal year of 2016 and how the sports community and sports media were caught off guard by the live TV moment. They reflect on where they were when the story broke and trace the gradual building of social justice discussions around police violence leading up to Kaepernick's protest. The duo breaks down the initial weeks of the protest, the quote that defined his stance, and his eventual transition from sitting to kneeling. They relive the media's reaction to his protest, including the public's defense of their right to remain ambivalent. Ultimately, Bo and Jason evaluate Kaepernick's standing as a starting-caliber signal-caller who won in the playoffs, the reality of league collusion, and the lasting legacy of a quarterback who forced a national conversation . . . Subscribe to Supercast for Ad-Free Episodes: https://righttime.supercast.com/ Buy 'The Right Time' merch: http://therighttimebomani.com/ Subscribe to The Right Time with Bomani Jones on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts and follow the show on Instagram, Twitter, and Tik Tok for all the best moments from the show. Download Full Podcast Here: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6N7fDvgNz2EPDIOm49aj7M?si=FCb5EzTyTYuIy9-fWs4rQA&nd=1&utm_source=hoobe&utm_medium=social Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-right-time-with-bomani-jones/id982639043?utm_source=hoobe&utm_medium=social Follow The Right Time with Bomani Jones on Social Media: http://lnk.to/therighttime Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Notice the open space around you. Uncluttered, elegant, intentional, warm ambient light, and natural wood details to ground you. This is Volvo's Scandinavian sanctuary for every journey. Learn more at volvocars.caps.caps.cault optional features mentioned. Wave. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the right time, a wave original. My name is Beaumani Jones.

Thanks for listening wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. We are doing our series on Colin Kaepernick 10 years after the protest. This is our second episode. Check out our first one was with Charles McDonald,

talking about Colin as football player. and now we are going to talk about the year 2016. Next episode is with Howard Bryant talking about 2017 to like 2019 and then 2020 and beyond. We'll be with my man Jason Anglin. But right now coming to us live from Chicago, Illinois. Boy, Jason Golf, what's going on? What's up, Bo? How you doing, man?

It's a great day here in the city, you know, sun is shining. Ozzy Gine's number got retired. Shout out to Ozzy. Oh, really? People are feeling good about, you know, sports here. although the Luther Burton injury got everybody and a little tizzy. Oh, that's right.

I got a football team now. Yeah, yeah. I don't know if you know, number 18, cover Madden. You know, it's going to drop as we're taping here in about four or five hours. So, yeah, you might see the bears every once in a while.

You know, you've been a lion's fan at all. Yeah, man, I can't wait to go ahead and get them too off them boys. It's going to be good. We're coming back. Coming back, coming back. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I knew it. Kaepernick and not even the taking the knee, but the sitting next to the water cooler it all there's a level of me that feels like this is an exaggeration but I don't I feel like it's a do you remember where you were not so much when he sat next to the water cooler because that was a Friday night

football game, preseason football game what am I watching that shit? Apparently Colin was barely watching that but the next day when he came out here you know and said that he was doing it for the homies in the Shialyn Temple I know where I was I was at my place in Miami I just moved in there maybe a month before that a little bit later.

And he said that. And I was like, oh, buddy, it's about to be a thing. It's coming. It's coming. Yeah, we're about to get into our, I'm 45, going to be 46 here. I didn't get the chance to witness or be around for Ali saying, hey, y'all want me to fight for a country. They won't fight for me when I get back and all that. I wasn't here for, you know, Tommy and John.

In the Olympics, I wasn't here, right? it was one of those moments were like, oh, shit, this is, uh, there's going to be our generation. And I'm not, not trying to throw him in that mix, but like this is going to be our boiling point. Oh, this is how you feel. And everybody getting out clear. Because this, there was no running from what was happening and what was getting ready to

happen. And, you know, as a, as a black man in this space, um, you know, white folks turn to you and go, okay, how do you feel about it? And then we turn into white folks like, no, no, no, no, you tell me. how do you feel about it? You go first. It was like the Super Bowl of New Orleans where Beyonce and the lights went out

and everybody's looking at each other. No, back to you, fam. I got nothing. Back to you. They weren't ready for live TV. In this moment, we weren't ready for live TV as a sports community because we hadn't gone through, you know,

around the edges. We talk about, ain't enough black coaches here, ain't enough black people here, ain't enough black owners here. Like, we shouted and did what we needed to do. And then all of a sudden, the game. You know what I mean? It was game day. So I was, I had pretty much just gotten afternoon drive around that time here in the city of Chicago.

So all my life, sports radio was a thing, right? Like 11, 12 years old, I'm like, oh shit, we got a 24-hour station. I get a chance. One day I'm going to be on that station and I'm going to be doing all the things that the people who I listen to do in terms of talk about their experience, talk about life, talk about. about, you know, the music they liked and all those other things. I had never had to hear or experience these white men talk about anything. Race. You know what I mean? You want to be a race fan? You know what I'm all the things back today? And, oh, shit, it landed in my lap, 2016.

I'm like, oh, we get a chance to tell people exactly why this is happening, the experiences of not just athletes, but people who are going to work on a daily basis who have to, before they walk into that door, understand it, there are going to be some things they're just not understood about the experience. And now you get to put it out there for everybody. Boy, was I wrong when I realized, oh, yeah, we weren't here for that. We don't care about your experience. And all those things came rushing at me while I'm talking about, okay, this is what he's doing.

And I still to this day, because, I mean, this is a seminal point in my life personally and professionally, I still to this day did not appreciate or understand where we weren't as a country. Right? Like you think things moving in a certain direction. They seem like it, but you know shit is still not where it's supposed to be. And then you get hard stop. Hey, rich folks, this is how I feel. Poor folks.

This is how I feel. And you're like, wait a minute. Hold on. Do we not going to get into the nuance and none of this? He talked to Nate Boyer. Like the things that happened and we're getting ready to come out, we weren't ready to dissect or disseminate any of that responsibly, I think. So when it hits, I'm sitting there like, okay, can't wait to talk about this.

And then you walk into the gig and you see that people can wait for you to talk about this. Right? And then you talk about, you know, and it's a local situation too here in the city. So you got everybody there, local experiences, guys, that they didn't like that they thought might have been on this same wave. Hell, we got back into Mahmoud Abdul-Rahoo. All these things started, right. All these things started bubbling up.

And I'm like, man, this, they ain't ready for this. And the they that I was worried about was the people who were so used to not talking about these kinds of things and not making it come up like people. Oh, you talk about things, things will change. Well, you know, black folks have been talking about things for a long, long time. Yeah. And still waiting for some of that change. And I think we hit that moment where there is a quarterback, a dynamic quarterback, a black quarterback in the NFL, a starting quarterback who, you know, is having success.

Like, Colin Kaepernick, you know, that Green Bay game is still one in the playoffs to be remembered for the ages of, oh, shit, you cannot play man coverage on this man. Right. Like, you know, the pistol and Chris Alton being introduced to like what, what you. University of Nevada football was for the first time on like a Thursday night. Like, oh, look at this. Look at this Finley dude who others would have put it wide receiver 20 years ago doing this. So now he gets to this point and he says this. And I just realized how many people weren't ready for the conversation.

And shockingly, so I realized how many black media members weren't ready for the conversation in a way where it's like, hey, this is your chance to just tell how you feel about something. and also have the insight of the culture that you were raised in, the things that you were told, the conversation that you had to have, right? At that time, my son, who is now 9 getting ready to be 10, he wasn't here yet. So I'm having conversations. Meanwhile, we're watching, you know, this murder porn on our phones with everything that's happening because this is why Colin is kneeling, right?

And I sat there and I thought to myself like, man, there was there was a moment there that I think we all got let down by how simplistic we tried to make it in the conversations. And the people who were receiving the conversations, how simplistic. Like, don't talk to me about socks with pigs on them, right? Like, do you care about the message? I think there's a lot of things in that, right? And I think these are key things to remember when we talk about late August 2016. I think he did it on my birthday. Because I was like, I had vacation time, but I didn't have time to plan a vacation.

So I wasn't working, but I was still just in Miami. One thing to remember, Donald Trump has not been elected. And in fact, the idea of him being elected still seems like a preposterous thought by August. Like we're rounding out convention season or whatever it is. Right. So are you talking about like, we thought things were different. We thought Trump was going to lose, right? Like we was like, there's no way they do that again, right?

So like that's that's kind of part number one to bring up in terms of thinking wherever you are in time. Number two, and you just said that it almost kind of forgotten is that it really kind of starts with Trayvon Martin, right? We have other names we can throw out Mike Brown. I think in 2014 has occurred or whatever. But the idea or these discussions about police violence against citizens has been going for a while now.

It was a largely online issue, but it then came into the mainstream. And so that became the dominant, really, I feel like the dominant issue of social justice of the time, right? Or a dominant barometer of a certain morality. Like right now, Israel, Palestine, regardless of where you are, has become the barometer for morality, right? The police violence thing had kind of like become that. And because of the videos, you're talking about that murder port, you can watch these motherfuckers getting shot by the police, right? Right, not even like, there's no video of Trayvon Martin. There's no video of Mike Brown.

But there was more. We have all these things coming, right? Like I think it's 2017 is when the Lequan McDonald video comes out of Chicago. But like, we just have a, we have a gradual building of this issue when it comes up. And so Kaepernick, who was not flying high as a player at that point, was honestly too hurt to play. I remember just seeing online, because again, this is an online story at this point. It was the second week when they had the game where people noticed. It was the second week.

that he hadn't stood up. Nobody noticed, nobody cared, but you started to get just like a, hey, picture from the crowd or from the press box, ain't kind of caffeine, didn't standard their national level. Now, it's a question to be asking, these snitching ass motherfuckers,

why they even had to do that or whatever, right? Man, just over there, mind and his own business, why y'all out here being messy, right? So it comes out, or we discovered this, and I'm like, oh, wonder how that one's going to go over. Because as of now, we don't know that Colin been radicalized, We're not up on game at this point. We ain't really talk to him about nothing, right?

He just be out here flexing and stuff up to that point. The quote that he gave Steve White, that I will never forget, I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football, and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.

He went all the way, Michael. 11's on it. Boy, he leaned all the way into that. And I remember when I read that, and I was like, huh, we're here. We're here. Let's see how this goes. Now, the work part for me is funny. I don't know. You're hearing it big it in the head. Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. You're looking for Alexis a justice. A dream of some substance. Some substance. So I don't know if you knew this part or remember this part. But our long-time, right-time listeners, those who go back to where the right time was a radio show, many of you remember what I'm going to discuss, which is, remember I told you I was home, but I was on vacation. And I have a general outlook when it comes to when

I'm on vacation, which is I ain't at work. I don't really care who you put on my show. I do remember this moment. I was actually listening during this moment. It's so. thought like, let me tell. This is not a bit. Yeah. So for this week, by coincidence,

Will Cade and Kate Fagin were the guest hosts of the show. And bless Kate's heart, she did her best. But this was not the time that my tribe needed Will Kaye. Now, one may have made an argument

and it could have easily come up. that perhaps in this moment I should have gone into work right? Like it's an emergency sort of situation but I don't do that. I take my time.

We don't leave vacation on the table. I take my time. I had to call in the show, man. Will Will and Dominique got into it on like a TV show during the day and then they came on the show that afternoon and they got right back into it.

Shannon was intentionally booking guests to rile wheel up. I really had to call into the show to let everybody know it's going to be okay, right? Like, I'm here. I should have left you without a dope beat to step to. You're right. Like, that was, that was, that was all me. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't know. How dare you.

It just gradually kind of burned. It just kind of gradually burned. It gradually got going. And then it got to the place where Colin had. to have the summit with the Nate Boyer dude about what to do because they were going to play a preseason game in San Diego. And for those of you who don't know, San Diego, military it out, right? And I believe it was military night at the game, right? And that was the game where Colin kneeled for the first time. And the kneeling became the gesture. The story was that

it was Nate Boyer's idea. Eric Reed says that it was his idea. The details of it, I don't think of important. What I do think is important is that the idea was kneeling as a way of giving deference. And so perhaps I will not stand for this anthem, but I will kneel as a way to show deference because the national anthem apparently

now entirely belongs to the military. It wouldn't always like that before, but now it's there. So anything you do during the national anthem is actually about the military. I ain't really know that shit until right then. I had never thought about that when they would have us do all that stuff in school. I wouldn't think about that. I wouldn't think about that now one time.

But anyway, Colin did the kneeling. And honestly, I don't think there was a single person who didn't like the fact that he didn't stand that saw the kneeling and was like, oh, okay, I think that's an appropriate compromise. That was how you knew it wasn't about the sitting and it wasn't about the kneeling. It was really fundamentally about the point. And he was like, hey, man, any white folks out here tripping, dog, and I've had enough of this. I just didn't The outrage seemed like

You know There's always one question That you can ask To kind of get you to answer Right with the outrage It was like Hey but you know These freedoms you speak of

Okay cool Now we're done Be back to it Or hey man Do you understand Like for me Perspective is When you got the most

Privilege in a conversation Shutting the fuck up And listening Because you might be right Or you might learn something Right? Like, if you think this is ridiculous, why is this happening? The why is this happening was being answered for you in short media clips, long-form news segments. I mean, we talk about world news on every channel, CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, MS, everybody's covering it. You know why

this is happening. Like, the obtuse nature with which, you know, the capitalist and also So that's the part that always bothered me was the poor folks that was calling me talking about, you know, this is what you should do and this is what they should. I'm like, listen, man, you, you're a couple of steps away from this happening to you. You ain't got no bread. These are marginalized and underserved communities, all these catchphrases that we'd like to throw on. These are, these are black people problems that black people are bringing to you and saying, hey, this shit ain't cool. You don't understand why. You don't want to understand why.

And also, it showed me very, very, I guess, midway through the game in terms of career-wise. Like, I was, I played ball in a suburb of Chicago on Saturday mornings. And a guy who used to host at the radio station that I worked at, legendary dude, came up to me. And he was, you know, he saw him playing ball. Hey, how you doing? Hey, what's going on? How you feeling? He goes, be careful with.

the Kaepernick stuff. And immediately, you know, like, what you're talking about? Like, this is a man who for years on the station had done anything that he really wanted to do in terms of race, in terms of saying wild shit, you know, it's Chicago, you got some wild-out dudes. And they loved them for it. And I said, hey, man, what would you do if anybody ever told you in the position that you was in to be careful about what you talk about? And what I didn't know he was telling me was, hey, the people to make the decisions are all on that side. That's what he was trying to tell me. So while this is unfolding, you're finding out, oh, it's not only the ranters and ravers and the hoopers and hollers. This is. And then you see, you're going to see

what happens with the Cowboys. And Jerry Jones playing that flag, no pun intended, and guys linking arms, and you see what happens with Kenny Stills. And you see what's going on around the league. like, oh, it's not only the quiet, you know, burden, it's the loud truth that these people are rocking with here. And to be, I don't know about, how'd you, it felt under siege in a way where it was like, hey, man, y'all told me, y'all wanted my opinions. Y'all told me, y'all wanted me to tell you the truth about things.

We tell these athletes, hey, be great at the sport, but also, hey, man, well, how you? feel about certain shit if you want to, if you want to divulge, right? You know, who's the goalie for the, for the Boston Bruins that didn't go to the White House? I forget his name. But it's like, no, no, no. Thank you for telling me how you feel.

You feel me? I can go now forward with whatever information. This dude tells you, hey, by the way, you know, black folks keep getting shot. The violence is not stopping. By the way, it hasn't stopped. You know, we're 10 years later. It's just still going on. It's just we kind of, like, I've heard you talk about it many times.

seemingly, people got tired of discussing the subject, even though it's still going on. But somebody said, hey, this is, ain't this crazy to nobody? And then it blows up. And then you get all the politics to go into it. And then you get Super Bowl halftime shows and all these other things. I just, I just sat there. It was a moment. And let's face it, too. Like, I was, I was doing what I needed to do. And the people who owned the station that I worked at sent emails, oh, we're so proud to have somebody like you in our fold, in our company, in our network. And our network. And I'm like, but what y'all going to say? Shout out to me for, I guess, saying something.

But how do y'all feel about this? And things got quiet. And then you look around the city and you're like, oh, they got a lot of y'all very, very quiet. And in an ecosystem that we're not supposed to be quiet. We ran the rave about backup tight ends and all these other things that don't matter all the time. Why is this now? And I realized, okay, if you feel. a certain way about, you know, self-awareness and inventory, you know, you don't know if this

is the last check you're going to get. So you might have to keep quiet about these things. Let me tell you something I learned. I'll never forget in 08.08, 08 was the year I started during radio. And I was listening to the sports talk station and they was doing something. And he is the generally good dudes, like his cats, I ain't got nothing bad say about. But they were doing a thing who was both black, Obama or Tiger Woods. and I think that they were intentioned.

I think they were intending to be tongue in cheek, comma, however. Now, this is the lesson that I learned here. It was that when y'all be listening to the radio station and that dude on the radio say something crazy, you just turn that shit off and go to work. When I be listening to the radio station

and that motherfucker's say something crazy, I just turn that shit off and go to work. And he write there. He in the cafeteria. Not in the cafeteria, he's on the bike. Like, like, you, you, you, you, water cooler. Yeah, like, it runs through your mind.

Can I beat KRS 1 right now and pull up on PM, Dawn? Like, it's like, this is, this is all the board. If you gangster, right? Like, if you're really the man you say you are, you can run up in here and do something about it. Right, but you're not. What are you talking about? You make me think of the phone call, dog.

It's so crazy. I used to get a phone call at a desk that I never sat at during the show, during the times that I was going, and every day this dude would leave a voicemail, like these veiled death threats or whatever. And one day, I was walking past the phone, and I dubbed it the phone call because I talked about it on the end of the next day. I was walking past the phone, and it rang, and I thought to myself, this is him. I'm like, this is it. I pick up the phone, and I go, hey, man, I know this is you. And I know the message you're getting ready to leave. and you didn't hear anything, right?

You just hear breathing. I go, don't you think it's weird that you know what time I come in and get off every day and you still you still in the shadows? Like, it's a way to be this guy. This just ain't the most efficient way.

Right? Like, the understanding radio is a different world, man. The understanding of sports radio and just think if podcasting 10 years ago would have been what it is now and how many people would have had a nibble of this thing

that, I think it came apart because nobody wanted to get on the message of, hey, what are we going to do about this thing? Right. And by the way, that's, and people wanted to talk about this, right? Because on one hand, black people, I would say black people at the median, certainly.

and a certain class of ally wanted to talk about it because it's like, now we've got an opportunity for the world to hear us. But as the internet has told us, people are addicted to rage. And so the people that wanted to rage, no matter what they said about wishing you would stick to sports, hell no. That shit, like, in fact, I'd be terrified to find out what would have happened if that shit popped off right now

because it wouldn't be no stick to sports because everybody knows that outrage juice is the thing. And this topic generates outrage from all parties involved just about different things that we can be out there, man, that shit looks like the trial at a time to kill. You know what I'm saying? It's free Carl Lee and fry Carl Lee

right next to each other, just screaming back and forth, right? And by the way, all of this we're talking about and all the things that we're talking about in this moment, what isn't happening while we're talking about this? Colin Kaepernick is not playing football. He is hurt. He has not gotten off the open.

and the entire world around him has caught on fire. Now coming up next, we'll talk about the fact that eventually at some point he had to get out here and play some football. Look, if your supplement shelf needs a reset, now's the time. GNC's semi-annual Live Well sale is happening August 13th through August 26 with Bogo 50% off almost everything. Whether you're restocking your protein and creatine, grabbing your, everyday essentials are finally trying something new, this is the moment to build a routine that works for you. From protein and creatine to hydration and energy essentials, you can find the pieces to keep your routine moving. It only happens twice a year, so don't miss the chance to

stock up, save, and get ready for what's next. Don't wait. The sale won't last long. Shop at gnc.com slash sale. All right, we are back with Jason Gough. This is a This gets us to the Colin Kaepernick got benched for Blaine Gabbard, which is not really true. Kaepernick was hurt so bad in that 2015 season that he was too hurt for them to release him. Because otherwise they probably would have cut him because he sounded deal with a terrible structure. But he was too injured to get cut. And the whole way when he wasn't playing, Chip Kelly, who was then the head coach,

was like, yeah, Colin's hurt. Collins hurt. Once Colin was healthy, Colin played. Colin was not bad. The 49ers certainly were. terrible. Yeah, they were awful. But he was not bad.

And here's the question I want to throw at you, because I don't think we've thought about this part. Can you imagine how this would have gone if the 49ers were good? Like the 49ers were, like, one, if they were good enough to make the playoffs. But like, what if they were, like, good enough to really be out here?

Rocket shit. well it would have taken football to where it usually wants to go but it's scared to go into that territory of boxing whereas mexican versus irishman or black man versus white man you know what i mean or mexican versus mexican you know what i mean like it would have been whoever was on the other side of that way you talk about blaine gabbard like baby blaine gabbard was the was the beginning of the he was the blueprint for the for the black You got to make sure that one of them do. This is the other thing, too. During that time, if he and that team were great, the problem was the people who are fighting on our side of this thing where it's like, you know, you're saying something, y'all, they can't fight.

Like everybody who was like, hey, man, I got so many people, hey, man, I really never looked at it this way and thank you for opening my eyes. I'm like, okay, well, where you've been? Sorry, I had to be the guy to open your eyes for this or Colin Calic Cabernet. But it's also like you're going against, like you mentioned, the Rangers on the other side of this thing. And the Rangers, the football audience is, you know, a bunch of wild out white dudes, fresh out of college, the older white cats who are raising those dudes. And then a bunch of brothers who out here just want to watch the football because we know cats, you know, we all know a few dudes who got to the league, got close to the league, or sure.

should have been in the league for whatever reason. So we all get thrown in that arena together, and it's like, what is the discourse really going to be? Right. And as you mentioned, even in the dissemination of information, Kyle really didn't have anybody on the side in the media that I knew about on the other side of things where it was like, oh, yeah, we're going to let people know

that this contract is asked, that you're more hurt than you are. Like, these things would have gotten out. We learn dudes vaccination status nowadays, you know, A few years ago, like the reporting that is and could be done, you also start to see the slant from the media as well. Like, who is down with who? Who has to protect certain relationships? Who has to make sure that this thing flames out in a way, right?

Like, you're not going to tell me that the collusion was on deck. Hell, we watched it with Lamar Jackson. You think they weren't going to get Colin Kaepernick, that's about here? Well, the thing that got me in terms of like talking about media, because one of the defining stories that you mentioned a little earlier, the pig socks, which, I mean, there was, if we're all being honest,

there was always an element of AFAM 101 to this, right? Like, the excitement that somebody has when they first really gotten into like the surrounding literature and the zeitgeist that is around that and they're really charged up about what it is and they'd be going, you know,

I mean, that big ass afro and everything else. You understand what I'm saying? Like, like, like, he was, He was a true believer. You know what I mean? He was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was in on it 100% the whole way. But what we found also is it was media members. Couldn't wait for the change.

They were waiting for their opportunity. And one of them in particular was, um, Armando Saligero, who I believe then worked at the Miami Harrow because Colin had also done something that is very popular, uh, amongst the, like FM 101 types in this, which is he had that t-shirt with Malcolm and Fidel Castro on it. Okay. Now, I had talked to Colin about that and he told me... All the landmines. Yeah, this was very early in the whole thing.

But he told me that he saw that as a representation of Malcolm's willingness to talk to others in order to get things done, which is a bit of an a historical interpretation. only because Malcolm and Castro were allies. Like, there's no, there's, there's, there's no real way around that. There's no bridge I have to cross, there's no bridge I have to cross to get to you. Yeah. I'm aligned with you in a way. Yeah, and there were some questions about skepticism that Malcolm had about Castro himself

as it's not like Castro was black. However, in terms, like, there was, I would say they were much farther for being allies than enemies. I think that would be fair. They were not, they were not operating as oppositional forces. In part, I think, you know, you know, you know. Castro loved antagonize the United States

in any way possible. Like, who do you dislike the most? Okay, cool, I'll hitch to that. But Salgaro being a Cuban in Miami, they really don't have no sense of humor about that whole Castro situation. And so he came with the questions when they played the game in Miami.

And Colin, I thought, handled the questions well. I did not have a problem. Like, they were talking about pigs like it was the N-word. You understand what I'm saying? Like, I didn't realize people took that term so seriously or so personally. Like, it's like, okay, he said to cops of pigs.

Like, this is, wait till you hear that Cypress Hill song. Like, I just, I just didn't know, I didn't know that that was, I didn't know that we treated. Or any of the predator or America's most wanted. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I know the police had gotten themselves a promotion in recent times in terms of they role that they played in society, but I didn't realize that was that big a deal.

but it then again became your reminder that nobody got into this I would say none of the white dudes at least got into sports media to talk about this stuff they did not and then it happened but then it was some people who just couldn't wait to get their lick off when the time came and it was that was kind of the tour for him through that season when you stop and think about it like anything was really going to be possible and you when you showed up in this new place and we had reached a time at our society were the people who disagreed with him the most fervently were more likely to be quiet, right?

Like, I don't, the idea of liberal media bias has always felt preposterous to me in a world where Fox News exists, right? And I know who the white dudes are there in charge. Like, when you know who runs this stuff, maybe it's just that maybe it's a liberal bias, but liberal doesn't stop you for being racist. And my black ass just can't appreciate her.

You know what I mean? So like, like there's a, perhaps. there's some separation of everything that's going on. But I do think it's fair to look back, especially 10 years later, that there's things that people would have said about Colin if it happened now, that I don't think they were felt as free to say

because they knew they were, they knew they sounded a little bit wrong. Give me, like, give me something. Give me, give me, give me an example where I could go off of, because I, I'm listening to you about the, the media. Let me ask you this. Who amongst, in sports media really stood 10 toes down the hardest as a direct critic of Colin

and what he was doing without hiding behind some excuse. Yeah, without making it about the flag or military. Yeah, and even then, it's like, you know, I understand where he's, you know, he has his view or whatever, comma, however, right? I feel like today it had been somebody on it a lot more gangster in what their opposition is. So the only person that I, because I got into a discussion, shall we say, with this person for about a good 12, 15 minutes about it was a guy who I, you know, had dubbed one of my favorite quarterbacks as a kid. And that was Boomer Assison. Yeah.

Yeah. We, you know, we were CBS on station. So I had, we had Boomer Isison on. And I talked to Boomericicin with my co-host about, you know, what Colin was doing, what he was going through. And it seemed like he was. you know, Boomer's a big, you know, NYPD, FD, NY guy. Like, he does a lot for military and the troops and is always flying that flag.

But at the very end of it, I think, one, he, I'm talking to him about it, and then voices I'm talking to you, and he said to me, it seems like you're getting a little emotional about it. And I wanted to answer in that way, yeah, man, like, there are certain, first of all, I don't look at emotion as a weakness.

I feel like if your decisions are driven by them, then you will end up looking weak. or making weak decisions at some point. But he said that in a way where I'm like, oh, we're getting somewhere. And by the very end of it, he said, I'm not going to have him disrespect my flag. And the very last word, because it's my job. I'm like, yeah, but it's his flag too. And in that moment, I remember like, okay, so at least it's being said.

And now that you say it, I don't know many people who came out and was like, this is screw this I'm not with this and these are the reasons why why do you think that is why do you think because it was I'm trying to find a good way to say this

I found in my experiences and this is no shade when certain folks feel excluded they do one of two things they either shit on whatever is being said or or they get upset that they're excluded from the experience and shit on whatever's being said.

I think that there were so many people who didn't understand fully, even though it's right there for it. It don't have to understand, I guess. And when the world is talking about something and forcing something in your purview that maybe somebody might have the drop on you or a better understanding,

these people don't know how to just come up off of. I simply, surely don't understand what's going on. Yes. And I think a lot of the media cats and guys and gals hid behind that long enough that they didn't have to make any kind of real concrete statements. I think that I think that what people deep down were protecting in the course of that discussion was their right to not care. I think that people could very basically and fundamentally understand that the way police was out here. Also, killing every, they kill. white people and get away with it too.

Like that is worth noting. And that was one of the more common defenses was would the police kill white people too? And with it implicit, and you don't see us crying, right? You see what I'm saying? Like, I think that people were defending their right to see these, you know,

and in many of these cases we talked about, they were very young, like, not even black men, the boys. Boys. Right. Like, they were defending their right to not have to care. They were defending their right to be ambivalent to what was going on around it.

There's no way for you to say, look, about it, I just don't really care. You can't do that. What you have to do is you have to venerate to police, and you have to turn it into a situation where you're saying the police do this just because they got a zillion things going on. They got this, they got that, da-da-da. You know, the heroes deep down, got to break some ends to make some omelets. You know, like they were, they were, they were, you know,

they were going through all of those things because, yeah, right, right. but you couldn't, you couldn't really come out there. It was very difficult in that time to stand up and fervently be like, what is he talking about? Nah, no, they just didn't want to care about what it was. I do think that there's like a heavy, like liberal sort of presence in the media, certainly. But I don't think that it was enough to where I felt like, oh my God, every time I go to a press box, I'm just, it feels like I went to a DSA media.

No, that's not. Like those of us who work in this are kind of like, no, it never. No, it doesn't. If you really want to know. Yeah, like it doesn't feel like, it don't feel that way to me. It's no, don't feel that way to me, but I'm talking to a boss or anything like that, right? Like, it's not there. I think now after 10 years of Trump being at our faces, like boomer, Sison is a great example.

He is a very conservative man. And now we know that in ways that I don't think we knew it. before, right? I think that he feels a little more comfortable being 10 toes down on that. There's always been somebody in your local market or whatever who will go out there and be that guy. Honestly, the difference between now and call it 20 years ago was that me and you were there 10 years ago, right? Like in that time period, you know, like 10 years before that, no, not really. They wouldn't, you know, the people that had these views were like few and far between than as more young people. I think that was what I really thought.

by and large was that youth, like age was maybe the variable. The thing that pissed me off in my travels were the people who would, I'll never forget Vinnie Del Negro was coaching a Bulls team that was going up against Tyreek Evans and Sacramento Kings and it was either rookie year Tyreek or second year where Tyreek was just a monster. And they came back from 31 down, some crazy shit like that. And everybody is sitting there in the, in the media press conference post game.

And I'm in there. And it's like one of the first times I'm asking questions. And I go, hey, man, you worried about your job security after some shit like that go down? And Vinny straight up, look me in the face, answer the question, whatever. And then as we're walking out,

Vinny daps me like, I understand. He's, you know, he down there, girl. He's been around the league forever, right? You know, he ain't a good coach? You know what I'm saying? You don't mean people in that media scrum press conference post game thing was like man I'd have never been able to ask that that was that was great though and I'm sitting there like but why not you just watch the same

shit I just watch and that moment was 100 X for me during 2016 because there's a city with you know a lot of microphones and we only get a few of them and I'm like hey y'all uh what y'all think? And you get everything that everybody thinks behind the scenes when it's time to flip that red light on that on-air button come on. Shit changes a little. And I was just, I was astounded by it because maybe I didn't, maybe I understand the magnitude.

See, I thought it would be a thing that passed where we looked back on it and, you know, how we look back on other figures. Like, I hate to keep going back to Ali, but Ali wasn't beloved. Right? But there were people who were like, hey, man, you doing what he's supposed to be doing? Then people didn't have microphones. So if you got the microphone and you feel that way, say this.

And then shortly after that, you know, your boy, you let go. You know, Wayne Brady's turned into Malcolm X is on the air. It becomes an inventory thing. Like, you know, we can sell this now. Look at, and I hate the word woke because now it's been used. like, let me break this to some of the people who still use this as a pejorative in this way. It sounds like you're saying inward or inward activities. So all, and I've been waiting my entire, like, last five, six years,

hey, for all the white folks out there to think that when they say, I don't want to sound woke or not, or they were too woke, or they lost something because they were woke, it sounds away. And in these conversations, we should be able to pass along these, feelings in these experiences, man, I, when I find out the media members were on that side and now have been,

you know, converted or are standing even hard, I'm like, hey, man, shit, feel free. It ain't like it's going to lose you any business these days. You know what I mean? You out here rolling with the crimson tie to, you know, the early odds. Like, y'all got some championships

that you're, you know what I mean? Y'all running around putting pros in the league. Like, if you think that this The last we're going to see of this, this is just 1.0. So, yeah, people, people saying a lot of things. Like, for instance, the WNBA discourse in the way it's going down now. What? If this is doing a year.

You imagine if one of them had decided not to stand for the national anthem? Oh, well, let's be real. The most disrespected person walking around your office or, you know, in your spear is probably a black woman. You know what I mean? I'm not even going to do the woman of color thing is a black woman. So, you know, and they've been holding shit down when motherfuckers in the NBA was too, I almost said the word, but was too pumped to do anything, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, when, when Derek Rose wore his is, I can't breathe shirt, the ladies have been doing it for a couple of weeks before that, right? Like, man, I'm not, you know, shout out to Darren because he was one of the few that actually was doing it without getting everybody together and doing a team photo and making it marketing, right? But like, man, please. Like, what we are now and how we challenge thought, hopefully, and how we're going to continue to challenge thought. That moment showed me a lot in terms of, you know, they're going to forget about the moment, but you should probably never forget how you handle that moment.

And there's a lot of people who run around handle that moment that's, you know, bribing shout out to them, but, you know, integrity ain't for sale. Yeah, I don't think we realize, or I don't think I fully realized that what was beginning, at least it felt like a moment at a point, right?

Like I think a fundamental question about all of these things is, was it a moment or was it a movement or was it a moment, right? And when we get to like talking about 2020, that question becomes a lot more prominent. But when you think about the stuff with black folks and police, like you think about the pro,

test in Ferguson. You think about how it went with Trayvon Martin. You think about it leading up to Kaepernick. There really was a long stretch of a sustained outrage about this issue. And we did start to see some things like by the time Laquois McDonald thing comes around. Like, it was treated, these things were treated more

seriously. George Floyd was the culmination of it where people had to be like, damn, that was fucked up. You know, like it reached that point and it reached that build and Collins shook up the world. Like, and while it was happening, it kind of felt like it, right? But I don't know if it felt like that off of the internet. Because on the internet, it felt like that's what was happening. But that's for media

people and people who consume media were getting together and kind of going back and forth and holling at each other and everything else. I mean, me doing a lot of the hollering, just to be clear. You know, that's where we were. But it was, it was part of a move. It was part of a larger thing. And yeah, we had the I Can't Breathe and stuff like this. But this like this right here landed when Colin didn't it was and it was because he was an NFL quarterback a quarterback who had been to a Super Bowl like a name that people knew and you can make the argument that his career was down and that's why he did it well Kurt Flood's career was down when he did that thing that he did but it didn't mean he didn't do the thing right like he had maybe

he had the thing that puts him to the point and not giving a fuck no more that happens but somebody still has to do the thing. He wasn't the only person whose career wasn't going good. He's the one who did the thing. And if he wasn't ready for understanding of the moment, do you think that he would give up being, you know,

a backup for the next four or five years? I don't think he knew it would go like that. So I'm asking. Yeah. I don't think he thought, now, it's fair, on one level, it's fair to ask the question if he did know it was going to shake out like this, would he have done it? But the bottom line is he did the thing. He did it. He did it. And he forced a conversation. And, you know, and his, his partner,

Ness, you know, she still rides hard for him and is doing what she's doing, doing a great job in New York radio. Like, it's, and, you know, the, the know-your-rights thing, like, people, people have gotten information and education on things that we wouldn't have had conversations around. I mean, it's a how, it's the most important. position in American sports is quarterback. Okay? I mean, you might say best player on the NBA team, no, pitcher on a baseball team, shortstopping him.

No, it's the glamor boy position of the country. High school kids grow up and want to be that, right? There are professionals who, if you stay in the league long enough, you're going to catch some of this glory. Shout out to Sam Darnel, right? You want that position, you want that moment. And for that position. that moment to speak to things.

I mean, it's what we've always talked about. Like, you're the CEO of the team and you're the leader of the team. But when moments got a little hairy, hey, remember, you're the quarterback. Everybody's looking at you. The moment got hairy and he was like, yeah, everybody is looking at me. I'm not mad. Like, I appreciate it in a way that at that time when I was getting ready to have my first son, like I'm thinking about how am I going to raise a young black man in this atmosphere

with all that shit going on at the same time. I remember going on the air shortly after I dropped his mom was pregnant with him and dropped her off. And we were listening to the news and listening to like the pretty much the roundup of what had happened over the last two weeks of young black men being shot by the police. And she starts to sob. And now I got to go in to a four-hour sports radio show and act like that didn't happen. No, this is the conversation.

We're not going to be like it's as if when there's mass shootings and gun violence and we go, hey, man, T's and P's, it's not a time to politicize this. We're going to talk about this some other time. Don't use these people's deaths. Well, guess what, man? So many deaths were happening. It's like, hey, they ain't going to be no other time. We should probably get to this now and see where everybody stands. And that's why, like, the scene where everybody stands part is always, you know, it's always jarring for some.

right and I think it was so jarring for everybody in the country that was like wait a minute this is where you stand with this this is how you feel hell I got police in my family who are like yeah man it's some grimy shit that goes down you know so it's some things that that that that we not even um down with and I'm like yeah but let's let's say this if the dude who is on the Nike ad if the dude who can get anything and have anything in the world that he wants because of the position he holds, not just in his country, but in this world, bro.

Like, you got excess resource. You've got excess network. You're around billionaires because of the ownership groups. And you travel. Yeah, if he's got this on his heart and he, you know what I get pissed about when people don't want to hear from rich folks? Because you damn show don't want to hear from po-folks. So who you want to hear from?

Right. You feel me? Yep. Like, you damn, you're not going to listen to the pole folks. because you're not around them. And if a rich mom, I can say, hey, by the way, man, with all this privilege and everything that I have amassed because of my talent, there's something sitting on my heart heavy.

Yeah, I want to speak on it. And to see the response by employers, by corporations, by the league, by sports media, it was one of those, okay, just a temperature check. Every 10 years, every five years or so, we get a temperature check. And that was the temperature check. All right. Let me ask this last thing before. we go.

All right. When Colin played his last game in the 2016 season, did you think that was going to be his last game, period? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Because I was still under the assumption that, hey, man, I didn't see murderers get their gags back. I'm trying to think when exactly I realized it wasn't going down.

Like I feel like definitely, once he didn't have a job and the season started, it was like, oh, no, no, no, this just ain't happening. I think maybe it might have taken for me to get through training camp and, like, nobody just even just needed a live arm or anything. But I'm really trying to look back and think to myself, when did I fully realize it's a rap, dog? We grew up, though, understanding that collusion was the thing that you can get in trouble for as kids, right?

So it was like, oh, no, don't worry about it. But also, it would be. wired a whole goddamn league to be so mad about this and in a league where everybody need a quarterback nobody again you said michael vick got out and it was a line wait no when i was talking about murders i don't don't know you know had them i'm aladdin people coming after me no no i wasn't risk no no no i was just using mike as an example of people yeah yeah yeah this is the country of of of section chances you kidding me Like, and did you really need a second chance by saying, hey, y'all, it's kind of fucked up.

What's going on? I don't know if y'all are seeing this. But, yeah, you couldn't have told me that that dude wouldn't find. And then the pretzels, the people tied themselves, the knots that people tied themselves. Well, you got to change the whole system. Boy, Greg Roman saw Chris Alt system and, like, and, like, college football video game was like, hey, we could just put this package in and run this with some different verbiage. Don't tell me shit about a system that you got to.

bill for a strong-armed left-handed court. He's left-by, right? He's right-in. He's right-in. He's a strong-arm, right-handed quarterback that runs like a gazelle. And, well, you know, his anticipation and his accuracy, man, hey, let me tell you what I saw, though. I saw him go 12 and 4. I saw him shred the Packers in his first ball.

Two NFC championships. What? You're going to tell me in a league that as a Bears fan. Dude, I've watched Steve Stenstrom, Chad Hutchinson. You feel me? I've watched Drew Henson. I've watched Craig Crenzel play football. I've seen Jonathan Quinn throw a football to a man who is getting paid to catch it and not get there.

I've seen so many things. Me and Cleveland Browns fans should have been right there at the altar like, no, no, y'all. Somebody can figure it out. I had to watch some shit, you know? Shout out to Steve Burline and so many Steve Walsh. I've seen every Steve ever play quarterback. You mean to tell me this man saying, hey, can y'all stop shooting this? It's going to be the difference between him playing and not playing?

All right. I got you. I got you. This man, I said, I don't see so many steves. I didn't see so. I didn't seen every Steve ever play football for the Chicago Bears at the quarterback position. I didn't see Mike Tomzac. You go tell me.

This is what it is. So, hey, man, there is nothing, there's nothing more powerful than a decision maker with insecurities and a lack of understanding. And I think you look across the board in terms of ownership groups, you're going to find enough of them. And they're like, we can't do this. Juice ain't worth to squeeze. Huh? Tim Tebow. You know, hey, Tim, Tim, Tim, about God.

He could do whatever he want. Anytime you get Jets come on through, the Jets had a press conference for signing a backup quarterback. You remember when that was going on? They did. You remember that? They did. Meanwhile, you know, and now, you know, fast forward 10 years later,

we got freestyles at block parties about, you know, struggles and crazy shit going on. Like, I hate how this turned out for everybody, man. Yeah. Like, everybody involved, brother. Everybody. I don't think there was one winner in this situation. And that's a question we'll get to as this series goes on. That is Jason Gough. My brother, I appreciate you.

Appreciate you, man. All right, man. And ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us here on the right time. We do this a couple times a week during the summer. Mike McQuaid telling everything behind the scenes. Thank you, sir. Hit the voicemail line 3-2-3-5-9-676767. Remember, follow the right time. Subscribe, like, rate us, review us, give us five stars.

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