The Right Time with Bomani Jones - Elle Duncan on Caitlin Clark's Sophie Cunningham problem, Olivia Miles' Ceiling | 8.4

Episode Date: August 4, 2026

Bomani Jones is joined by Elle Duncan for a new episode of The Right Time to discuss the current state of sports media, the WNBA, and why online discourse so often overshadows the games themselves. They start by talking about Elle's move to Netflix Sports, the challenges of producing daily sports television, and why the slowest parts of the sports calendar always seem to revolve around the same headlines. Later, Bo and Elle celebrate the emergence of young WNBA stars like Olivia Miles, explain why A'ja Wilson continues to redefine greatness, and discuss how the league's rapid growth has changed the way fans engage with women's basketball. They also examine the media narratives surrounding Caitlin Clark, the political debates sparked by Sophie Cunningham's comments on transgender athletes, and why so many conversations about the WNBA drift away from basketball. The two also weigh in on the reaction to Monica McNutt's viral pedicure appearance, reflect on how remote television has evolved since the pandemic, and close with stories about competitive family game nights, recreational sports, and the perspective that comes with success, wealth, and getting older. Along the way, Bo and Elle share plenty of laughs, personal stories, and thoughtful conversations about sports and culture. . . . Subscribe to Supercast for Ad-Free Episodes: https://righttime.supercast.com/ Buy 'The Right Time' merch: http://therighttimebomani.com/ Subscribe to The Right Time with Bomani Jones on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts and follow the show on Instagram, Twitter, and Tik Tok for all the best moments from the show. Download Full Podcast Here: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6N7fDvgNz2EPDIOm49aj7M?si=FCb5EzTyTYuIy9-fWs4rQA&nd=1&utm_source=hoobe&utm_medium=social Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-right-time-with-bomani-jones/id982639043?utm_source=hoobe&utm_medium=social Follow The Right Time with Bomani Jones on Social Media: http://lnk.to/therighttime Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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My name is Beaumani Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. It is that time of week where we have a guest join us. And this guest last week sent me a text and said,

when could I come on the show? even though she knows the answer every time is whenever you want like you you you get this you the calendar is yours from Netflix sports. Let's go, Bo. Hi, I know. That's always my, whenever Bo checks in on me like randomly because we are friends, I'll be like, yeah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Shoot the shit. Also, when can I come on the show? So thank you for.

I'm like, yeah, man. You always got a time. Like, I just check in, you know, because you always got a million things going on. Now there's never no telling if you're going to be on the top of a mountain or at the home run derby. you know, or anywhere else. Netflix, like you are out of these trenches with us. Like when we looked at the news on Sunday, it was like, we ain't doing no Monday podcast.

We ain't, ain't, ain't nothing there. You ain't even got to go through that no more. No, that's, I think that's been an interesting part too. Someone asked me that the other day, actually. Is it hard to do a major event and then like not do anything for a month? And I was like, yeah, I mean, I'm used to the beats of like five, six, sometimes seven days a week because I did work at ESPN. And so that's the thing.

is like you do this big thing, you put all of it into it, and then it just kind of just, it just goes away. I have not wanted in a long time. There's only been a few moments since I've left ESPN where I've been like, God, I wish I was on air tomorrow. And I wanted to be on air after the Derby because I just think Jordan Walker's story so freaking cool. And man, it was an awesome derby.

It was awesome. After I stopped doing how I knew, I was pretty clear to myself like, hey, man, I don't want to do like the daily television grind again. Now, I want to be very clear that opinion or that desire seemed to be reciprocated by the industry that I worked in. But I was just like that, man, we got to come up with this every single day. Like, this has become like an everyday podcast, but we have much greater flexibility in terms of what we're going to do. And we only got to get to like the top stuff that's there.

Like when people get on ESPN and be like, man, they talked about the Cowboys four times this week. I would love for you to program a show in late July and early August. No matter who you are, I would love for you to sit down and decide to come up with two hours worth of shit for people to talk about, or listen to you talk about. Thank you. Like, this is the absolute most difficult time for producers in this space. Like the summer and like, yeah, you've got some baseball. You obviously have the WNBA and their, you know, Rise has helped as well kind of take up

that summer calendar. But yeah, typically in this industry, after the NBA finals, everyone goes on vacation. It's when you start seeing all these different pairings on air because people are burning all their time off. Producers are trying to figure out what the hell to talk about. And like every once in a while you'll get, you know, a little nugget will drop in your laugh. LeBron James, thank you so much for going to Philadelphia.

That's going to occupy two weeks. We'll see what happens. But this is, it's not easy, you guys. It's really not easy to try to figure out what to talk about seven days a week on multiple shows and then be different from the other shows on your own network. Right. Well, it's because this shit don't matter. Right.

And I don't mean that in a snide way. Like this is an entertainment product, right? Like this is, there's nothing that becomes imperative truly for you to talk about. So when you get to this part of it, thank you NBA, by the way. Because with the new like free agency is now before free agency because it's the trade market. And then you get the free agency. And as much as many of us joked about LeBron and how he was just going to wait till he had the whole, you know, all the stuff to himself after the World Cup.

Appreciate your home boy. I don't really know what it was that we was going to do without you. Like that was an example of him doing us a solid. Way to go, LeBron. WNBA, the rise is happening. But like for a sports center, it's been great because you could run the highlights or you can say the things or whatever.

Like it's at that point where you could get interest in those sorts of things. Over here on Yaggedy Yacht Street, we're still not at the point where on a mass level people want to hear us talk about the actual basketball, right? Like we're still not there, which is sad because right now, that goddamn Olivia Miles, hey man, it is the friendly reminder that most of us fell in love with basketball for the aesthetics of it all, right?

Like what it looks like when there's a really, really cool basketball player. It was not about maximizing these. equations and cooking up these statistics and all this ball movement and everything else. No, no, no. For you younger people, you just didn't grow up in the era with, it's me and you. And somebody's dribbling the ball with that whole demeanor of you can't guard me. It's just a matter of time before I embarrass you. And we got one of those again, right?

Like, Kyrie Irving in the NBA is like the last of the Mohicans like that. Olivia Miles is like, yeah, go. Let's do this. Let's see how this goes. she has been like honestly if she wasn't living in an era of asia wilson then i think she would have more conversation in the MVP um debate she's obviously locked up rookie of the year but she's so freaking fun to watch and honestly for the people that don't know olivia miles story or kind of she just fell into their purview maybe after she left notre dame like she was uh you know a top

prospect like rookie of the year in the acc hurts herself you know in comes hannah hadalgo now all of a sudden there's this power struggle of whose team it is, who's going to be, who's going to bring the ball up, like who, you know, you had these two incredible guards. Olivia Miles did not play any defense in college. Let's be real, Hannah Hidalgo, that's her specialty. And so Olivia leads. She goes to TCU.

There's a lot of questions about why and this and that. And I remember one of the last images of her at Notre Dame in the, in the tournament is her sort of quitting defensively. And like, it looked like she gave up. She goes to TCU. Look what she did to that program. Took them to new heights that they'd never been to before. then she comes into the WNBA and is absolutely killing it.

And like I said, if she didn't live in the Asia Wilson era, she could be just the second person to win MVP as a rookie joining Candace Parker. She's just been so fun to watch. But alas, let's talk about other stuff. What I'll take it is, though, if I was her, I wouldn't play no goddamn defense neither. I'm doubling up. I'm doing somebody else's job over here. Y'all take care of that.

She has improved defensively. She definitely has. It's a part of her game that will continue to grow. Good for her. her because I wouldn't. I wouldn't. Let me do a little nerdy sports thing right fast about Asia Wilson because the other day, one thing I find that's interesting for me as someone who doesn't watch women's basketball very much is that I don't always know how to interpret statistics. And what I mean by that is what a good field goal percentage is in the women's game is not the

same as the men's game, so forth and so on, right? And I never really paid any attention to the advanced statistics over there. So there's a stat I look at a lot, which is win shares per 40, minutes. And in the NBA, it is the most accurate predictor of, like, who is going to win the MVP, right? It pretty much goes every year. Guys like Yoghij and SGA right now are in, like, a 0.3.00 range or a little higher than that, which is otherworldly, like top seven all time. In 2023, Aja Wilson put up a winchairs per 48 minutes of 0.406. That isn't real. Like what I look at the, looking at the numbers in advance stuff for her, it is like, oh, no, this is a no brainer. I can't imagine there's any way anybody's been better than this.

Look, just if I'm looking just at those numbers, I could not believe, like, watching her play, it's like, obviously this is a very good player. Looking at numbers with it was like, yo, this is breaking the game. People keep forgetting in this Dynastic Vegas run that like up until last year's championship, they did not even have a bench. So it really truly was, and we saw that last year all on Asia Wilson. And the thing about Asia is I get it. There is greatness apathy. I was the main one like, please God, Tom Brady, go away. We get it.

Like, you are the greatest. Please, like, stop. We get it. I was the main one that was ready for him to move on because I was tired of him having a stranglehold on the league. But I do think that we have to appreciate that Asia Wilson is not only the greatest basketball player of all time, will go down as the greatest basketball. basketball player of all time until someone dethrones her at some point. But she's also unworldly,

Bo, because every year she breaks records and then she finds a way to elevate again. This is not, let's just keep giving her the MVP because there's no other really good candidates. There are incredible candidates every single year who are so deserving. Nefisa Collier last year, right? Like, that was her Kevin Durand versus LeBron thing where I was like, God, LeBron go away so I can win an MVP. They are always very deserving. But Asia, every single. single year elevates her game. And when you think she can't elevate anymore, she finds another thing, which is like this year with her three-point shooting. So you're telling me, a big of Asia's caliber can now shoot threes at a career clip. Like, it's just unfair. It's totally unfair that she is the

best. And then she just keeps pacing herself and getting better and resetting the standard. It's, it just, you have to marvel to watch it. Now, like, that's, she's the one I feel like you can kind of talk about her basketball in a general audience setting at this point, right? Because I always say, I'm reluctant, too, because I don't know, I watch those other leagues a lot longer. I'm much better at it. I know a lot more about what I'm talking about. I'm like a little less good at it. That's why the Miles thing has been so overpowering because it's like, dude, there's nothing to interpret here, right? There's no, there's no, there's no making this relative. This is familiar as fuck. Like, I've seen this on many levels and I miss it. I miss it greatly. I'm with you, but, I'm, I'm with you,

But I also think too, like, I love what you said that, like, I don't watch it enough to to have a really strong opinion in this. Let that be a lesson to us all, that when we're newer to spaces, that we can be fans, that we can marvel at, like, you know, different players and whatnot. But that, like, if we don't know, like, if we don't watch enough WNBA to say without question, this person is treated differently or this person is a difference maker or this person isn't, then maybe let's just like have our opinion and then be really open-minded at other people's opinions as well. Because like ultimately, um, I think that's one of the, the things that's

annoying the most in the WNBA is like the same person out of the same mouth on one side will say, I don't watch any of these bitches. And then on the other side say, none of these women are as good as this other person that I like. Um, or, you know, if you say something like, well, I think the links are going to win it because of Olivia Miles and then of course they've got fee, one of the best basketball fairs on the planet, you're somehow hating on somebody else's favorite team. And it's like, well, how much have you watched of them to know? So like, let that be a lesson to us all. No one's saying if you're a new fan, you have to be quiet. You can't have an opinion. You can't have a favorite. I'm just saying be open-minded that like maybe your opinion is not

the end-all be-all because you just don't have enough acumen. And that will come the more that you watch. Yeah. And I think with the media stuff, I do think, I know, Riseriello got in trouble with some people. I guess it was maybe a year or two ago where he said, I said, I don't watch the WNBA, and I don't feel like I have to watch the WNBA, and that's nothing against the WNBA, but that's just not what I'm going to do. And I actually was like, yeah, I see that, right? If you've made the call, that's not what you're going to do. That's cool.

I think a lot of us felt pressure in the last couple of years. And I don't know if pressure is the right way to put it, but an inclination to feel like this is the new thing that's coming up. So I should probably talk about this. Yeah, follow. Yeah, but as they even follow as much as the audience seems to want this. And then, like I said with me, I felt like they thought they wanted it until I did. it. And then it was kind of like, oh, this isn't going over like nearly as well.

Because, hey, I know how to do culture stuff. And then everybody gets a little tired of the culture stuff because it's become so incredibly inflammatory. And it was culture stuff in a way that didn't allow for no jokes. Like, nobody could have it. Like, there was no fun for it. They roped you into it the other day. I was like, ugh, oh, that's tough. They always do. They always do. Listen, I, the thing that I have come to accept and I'm okay with is that I just understand the tenor of social media. I get what it is. I understand why exists and what it's for. I know why I have it. I have it because it's important for brands. It's important for to communicate what you're doing. And because I do like, I love being on social

media and experiencing a big sports moment with other people. I do. You know, like most of my Twitter during like a big sporting event is just like stream of consciousness. It's like, you know, I look back on these tweets and I'm like, what game was this even? I didn't use any hashtags. I'm just tweeting shit like, oh my God, are you kidding me? But I also understand that like, rage bait, the opportunity to be to be opportunistic. Like, that's all it is. It's like, oh, this black woman gave a thought on Caitlin Clark. Like, let's blow it up and make it a big thing. And it's frustrating on some ends because I don't know how many times, you know, I went down this like rabbit hole the other day of I was this close to hitting up my social media girl.

I'm being like, can you pull all the clips of me talking positively about Caitlin Clark? And can you? And then I was like, why? I don't have to defend this position. I have have no issues with Caitlin Clark. I have only ever had issues with the narratives around her, with some of the fans that say things that I think are inflammatory, racist and bigoted, this idea, this generalization of an entire league of women. I have issues with all of those things. I've said for years that I did not feel like it was Caitlin's responsibility to tamp things down because, like, she didn't ask to be the face of this, right? And like, I don't think it's fair. I also felt like this would all die down by now. I thought three years in, I thought like with the

basketball to talk about, which is what we just said, like, I thought all of those things would mean that eventually we'd move past this and it's just not the case. And so what I said on that podcast the other day, I stand by in that I think that Caitlin's PR team essentially has to say Caitlin is having a career year. She's playing so well. The fever team are one of the hottest teams in the league right now. But when you Google the Indiana fever, all that comes up is transphobic stuff, stuff about, you know, Caitlin Clark and racism and whether the women hate her congressional hearings, none of it is about the basketball. And so if I'm her team, I'm going, how the hell do we get this back about the basketball? And I just feel like, like,

the statements that she's made and I saw her interview that she just did with Malika and, like, again, I understand that she's trying. I just think you have to go back to the drawing board because it's not working. Like they've already used you. They're continuing to use you. And so, you know, to me, it's just the idea that if you keep doing the same thing over and over and it's not working, you just have to have a different approach. Because I want that for her. Like, I want it for her. I want her to be able to like, you know, not have to dodge the media for fear that she's going to be asked some question about some divisive question about politics. It's just, it's absurd. It's made the W the least fun league to cover. And that's not just me.

that's most people that are in this space are like, oh my God, we love the increased attention and all the things that have come with it. And obviously the women are getting more money and they're getting all of the things that they have earned and deserved. But on top of that increased attention,

how the hell do we handle this? Because it's become more than like an elephant in the room. It's become the dark cloud over the league. And it's really frustrating as someone that just loves it and wants to focus on basketball. Yeah, my thing was I truly don't, like, I've seen the many times that she has tried to say there's no place for racism and everything else.

I just don't think there's anything they can do about it in part because I think people are addicted to being angry. Like I think the nature of, I think it's a, we can acknowledge on an individual level and we have friends who are like this who are, and I notice this, you are not one of these, I am not one of these, at least I'm certainly not that at this point. People who are just really addicted to the back and forth

and go find these people like, Mark Zuckerberg said when they started putting the bots on Facebook of the AI characters, He's like, yeah, well, we think you'll learn to like these people as much as you like your real friends, which was terrifying. But then I watched people do that with them bots every day on the internet, right? Like they're addicted to being mad. And she, I don't know how good she would have to be to transcend all that noise,

but she hasn't been as good as a lot of those people expected her to be in part, because as you said, they didn't really know nothing about the league in the first place. So the basketball has not been so excellent as to where there's nothing else that you really, Like when Larry Bird came in the league, he was like that. Therefore, any discussion that came up about the other stuff, when they were like Larry Bird's the best player in the NBA, it was like, damn, man, they're right. You know, like you had the moment where you had to like really ride that out.

She hasn't wound up being quite that good, which in a basketball way makes it more interesting. There's a climb. There's a progression. This is a league where older players don't cycle out as much because of the money situation. It's not like a younger player is that much cheaper than an older one. So like the hierarchy is more established.

It's hard. She's trying to climb a tough mountain, man, and maybe knocking you around in that league, too. Like, just on the basic Greek mythology type of story of the climb or the way that we typically did sports, it's all right there. But that's not why so many of these people got into it in the first place. And that's not the part that sells in the world of algorithm.

And so now everybody's mad, everybody's bad. And now I have a hot take, something that the fever can do to make it better. Okay. So I don't know if you've ever heard this one. You covered the Atlanta Hawks. You're probably familiar with the concept. They always say about on a basketball team, if you got knuckleheads, you can have one knucklehead. Yeah.

But you can't have two. Sure. Right? You can't put them in the same place. No, no, no. I'm starting to think that you can have a Caitlin Clark, but you can't have it with a Sophie Cunningham. You can't do it at the same thing. Because right now, all the heat

ain't really got nothing to do with Caitlin Clark. She bringing all the heat, right? That whole, I don't really be thinking about it. I just say shit, right? She gets out here, she says it, it's the thing. And now they're coming over to Caitlin Clark. Like, hey, Caitlin, you know how Sophie be, like filing people for you? Anyway, what do you think about what she had to say?

And they're like, man, Caitlin ain't talking to none of y'all. They can't even bring her around to people. But the heat is coming from the other one. And legitimately, in men's sports, We talk about distractions in all of those things. That is as big a distraction as there has ever been around the team. The people who thought it was legitimate to keep Colin Kaepernick off a roster because of his politics are now totally enamored with this woman off of this one take

that becomes interesting because it is a minority take in the league and it is easily a majority take in the nation. But she bring, if you go have Caitlin Clark on the team, you can't have one of those right there. unless Kayla's trying to lean in with it, right? Unless the game for her were to be. You know what? No, I'm in

that same direction. And then it's like you got somebody to take the heat off of you. It seems pretty clear that this isn't quite she does not have the same get down to Sophie Cunningham. But she's going to have to answer for everything Sophie Cunningham say. And Sophie Cunningham going to keep saying it all because this is what's getting her bread. This is what's

getting her on TV. This was her getting at the UFC matches. She's become honest to God's celebrity. And she's average like five points a game in the WNBA? Yeah, I mean, I think like for Caitlin, neutrality is obviously the goal because she's got a lot more to lose than Sophie. She is a huge brand, a huge name. And so listen, I'll be handed. I said this on the podcast I was on a couple of days ago where they brought up Sophie. She's a colleague. I'll be working with her on tomorrow on USA Sports. I don't. I did not know. No, no, no.

No, no. So I don't address, you know, you know I've had some colleagues that I have loved in my life to flame, but I have just had a standard like, you know, operating procedure of like I just don't comment on colleagues because I have to work with them. And ultimately, the most important thing is, you know, being on air together and making that work and chemistry. But I will say that, yeah, I mean, I think in general, it's interesting. I was having this conversation the other day with someone yesterday, actually. This is a league that was. born on activism that was born on being political. I think that you, you, it is hypocritical to say that in a league that has always rallied around activism, speaking your mind, using the court as a pulpit for the things that you believe in, whether they cross sports or not. That's what the league was founded on and they've always been, you know, really big in that space. I would say that the difference with this one is that typically in the WNBA, those causes, is that the players rally around are in support of marginalized communities.

And this take, of course, is in direct conflict to that. And that is, I think, where you're getting this really big, why this has been such a huge blown-up story, not just that Sophie is, because I do. I find it to be so hypocritical

that the stick to sports people are now holding rallies at the sport. Let's just be honest, what we always knew what it was, which is that stick to sports, if you're saying something I don't like. Yeah, yeah. And then if you're saying everybody,

which is everybody, by the way. Yeah, which is everybody. Like now, you know, now it's like, shut up and play basketball. And, you know, and so I, I do find that to be, you know, hypocritical. I just think that that's where we're at is that, like, in a league that has always been about activism,

now we're seeing a political discourse that is in contradiction to everything that the league really was about, which was like, I hate saying the island of misfit toys, but that's always been their mantra bow, right? Like if you belong nowhere else, if you feel like you have no safe space anywhere else, if you don't feel comfortable at an NFL game or whatever, if you don't feel like you have people, you have people here, this space amongst all of these marginalized communities with black women, with queer women, with like all of these from all different walks of life, you are welcome

here. You know, it's always been, you know, gay families at the games and straight families at the games and, you know, trans families at the games and black and white and all. It's, always been a welcome space. I remember the Atlanta dream. They're old dancers. Their dance team used to be like guys and girls, old and young. And that's always what the W is about was like, we will collect all of you who feel like outcast everywhere else. You will be safe here and you will be loved here. So I think it's been startling for a lot of people that has been in this space for a long time because now all of a sudden the posters and the rallies and things like that are in conflict of a marginalized group. In fact, the most marginalized group that exists.

And so there's just these two, you know, sort of existential things that are happening right now. But it's, I did think Cheryl Reeves had really great comments about her and Sophie. They chatted before the Fever Links game the other day. And she was like, it was good to just talk through our differences. We feel very differently about things, but we expressed how we feel. And ultimately, you know,

we have the same sort of ideas of how we're going to use our voice and in support of what we're going to use it for. So, you know, it's, I don't know, Bo. I wish I had a solution for how all of this, like, goes away. Obviously, the internet doesn't love my solutions. But I do think that, you know, I've been at this place of avoid, avoid, avoid avoid avoid, I just don't want to talk about it. It's a headache.

Every time I talk about it, it gets clipped from a podcast. I have to avoid socials for four days. Yeah. I'm getting text messages from right wing, you know, media companies that want to, you know. Want to come on the show? Right, which is a joke. I'm never coming on your show out. kick it's never going to fucking happen you can literally stop asking um but i also think that like

that isn't a solution either to avoid and evade and like that's not it either and so you know it it's an uncomfortable conversation and one that most people don't want to get into because they know they're going to be attacked and they're going to there's going to be articles about i'm sure there'll be articles about this like i called it on the last podcast i was like i'm going to talk about this they're going to clip off 15 seconds of this and then it's going to go viral and then everyone's going to be in my shit. And it's like, that's just, but that's the tenor of social media, Bo and that's where we're at. And I'm all good with, you know why? You know why I'm all good with it? Because all I have to do to avoid it is put my fucking phone down. Turn it off. So what? I still got to go pick my kids up

from camp. I still got to be a snack bitch when they come home. None of this actually matters because it is not real life. These manufactured ass controversies are not. not real. They're fake. I'm looking at you, Monica McKnight. We're going to get to that. I want to make this one point right fast on what you said, is that I think that particularly the issue of trans participation in sports and what we're talking about is trans women, right? Like that's that's where the space is that we're discussing. Oh yeah, they don't care about trans men. No, no, no, no, no. It's not it, right? It is in many ways. like for this league a bit of an unwinnable fight.

And the reason that I say that is within the league, there seems to be a pretty consensus opinion about what side to be on on this matter. I think it is also very important to note that trans and gay or lesbian are not the same thing and their interests are not always directly aligned so you never know who might think what about this topic, right? Just throwing that part out there.

But the vast majority of Americans, Americans agree with Sophie Cunningham, right? All things related to trans people require what I consider to be very complex explanations about what is going on. And to most people, it is a common sense thing. We don't let boys and girls play sports together. And just the other day, you said this person was a boy and now they're saying they're a girl. What's the difference, right?

There are explanations that people can offer. It's not, it's one of those where my brother. other ones told me a great argument is not one a genius can't refute is what a fool can't refute. And this is a really tough one to sell to a fool. Right. Like this is, this is, this is really, really hard. And so the league, because of what you described and what it's history, has no choice but to stand 10 toes down on the side that it typically stands with, which puts it in opposition at all times with the majority of people on the other side. And what this issue is to me and where I think it is kind of historically interesting, I forget what book it was that I read that

said that for a while the right, like people like Jerry Falwell and them, they kept looking for some issue they could hang their hat on, like post-segregation, that they could really rally the troops on the right around. And they threw all this stuff against the wall. And the thing that stuck was abortion. Like abortion was not a hugely controversial thing prior to the early 1970s. They found out that that was a talking point that really got their base together and kind got people riled up. And so that leads to the next 50 years of discourse. This is the new one that they threw against the wall and they found like this really gets people charged up like in a very simple sense a guy used to work for in radio said this is like 15 years ago but he was right he was like

to this day say p. Rose shouldn't be in the hall of fame and watch the phone lines light up oh yeah that was our topic that always lit it up this is that it gets the people going and it and i haven't seen anybody change their mind yet by the way right like it gets the people going and so the league is stuck in this position where especially if you have that woman who looks like that and has her background, which is interesting because it's the same background as Michael Porter Jr. in any ways. But that woman sounds like that, looks like that, throws it out there, you're stuck. And now they put in the microphone in the face of your young star who wants to be all things for all people. And is, I think, learning, not possible.

It's not going to work. But my whole issue, Bo, is that like we keep, you use the word issue like 10 times and I'm like, that's the point is that you guys, this isn't an issue. Like, I'm sorry. And it's not because I agree with you. By the way, it is a talking point more than it is an issue. It's not an issue because ultimately, like, guys, the majority of Americans that agree with Sophie Cunningham's opinion, it worked. Like, transgender athletes can't compete in NCAA. They can't compete at the Olympics. They're doing gender testing now in the WTA. Like, it worked. Like they are they are keeping transgender athletes out of these spaces so like what is the argument like what are we still arguing it's like arguing that they need to pull the Berlin wall

down they did yeah but you know what it is done it's I just like and it's also a non-issue because here's here is where I have the most issue with it is that it is used with the cloak of protecting girls because if you can say to someone we want to protect girls who wouldn't want to protect girls of course we all want to protect girls. girls, right? And so when you use it as the guise of, we want to protect girls. And so we want to, my issue is, it's a new, listen, it's a super complex situation. And I don't have any solutions. I don't know the answer. You know, on the surface, the easy answer is start a transgender league. But then you look and you go, there are not even enough transgender athletes to start a transgender

team, let alone a whole entire league. And that's where I have the hardest time with this. This is not a crisis. This is not an issue that is that is, that is, that is, infiltrating our girls' sports. It's not. I sit on a collective, Bimani, with some of the biggest, most powerful women in sports. And our whole goal is, for this year of this collective, is to try to get more female coaches in these spaces. Why? Because we did a ton of research. And the research showed that the real existential crisis for women in sports and while girls are dropping out is because they don't feel as valued or important as men's sports is because they do not have representation that looks like themselves from coaching positions.

These are the young girls telling you what the crisis is in women's sports. And it is not transgender athletes of which most of these girls will never encounter in their entire playing career. And that's my problem is that if you were to just look at headlines, you would think there is a transgender athlete in the W. There never has been, not in 30 years. And so these are just, we're making mountains out of mole hills, situations that should be nuanced, that should be looked at. And you can do that, guys, because there are so few cases

of this, you do have the bandwidth to look at each one of these situations on the surface, because there are so few of them, to act like this is, you know, impacting our daughters everywhere is absurd. I reject that. When I was. Because you know what is affecting our daughters? You know, it is putting our daughters in real harm are the thousands of sexual assault lawsuits that we see across campuses and that we see amongst coaches and organizations. It's the lack of resources. If you care about protecting girls and women's sports, then why don't you speak out on the countless Title IX lawsuits

that are happening across the country? Like, why aren't those things that you're focused on? If you're truly, you want to focus on a transgender athlete, athletes, fine. But why can't you also, why do I never see any of these people talking about protecting girls and women from predatory coaches, from predatory organizations, and why are we not talking about the fact

that there are, to this day, thousands of Title IX lawsuits that are going around college campuses right now because they are not living up to the standard that was set by Title IX. When I was doing game theory, we were going to do a thing on, I think it was Kentucky,

was passing one of these laws against law and transgender athletes to participate. On one side, it was the state of Kentucky. On the other side, it was a girl in seventh grade. Literally one. Yes. Like it was literally the same thing. state against one girl, right?

Like that's the, there's no there there argument is the, is the biggest one. It's just, this doesn't come up. Like, I have a buddy of mine who makes the argument that it should be an easy win for the, for the left to just give this one up. I'm like, but you can't give it up. Because if you give it up, you give up on the people. And that's the point that people are trying to make. And that's where it becomes, it doesn't matter if you are, how, how much of the

minority you are on this issue, if you're the WMBA and its participants, you can't can't give up on the people. That's not what you do, right? They just can't be. And then you wind up in the noise strictly because people want to make noise because they'd rather talk about the noise than they would actually talk about the basketball because they don't care about the basketball. They do not care. You get a lot more headlines if you make a political statement than if you have 45 points. And we've seen that all year long. Yep. Coming up next, pedicures on television. The right time is brought to you by Fanduil. Baseball fans, think you know who's hitting a homer today?

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easy to find what works for you. Discover why millions trust GNC. Shop athlete-tested science-backed picks today at GNC.com. All right, we are back with L. Duncan. We were talking about things that can kind of get manufactured on television. And you brought this up. I was in Houston over the weekend for the Riding Dirty, UGK. Riding Dirty, 30th anniversary show. That was a Houston-ass good time, boy.

Oh, I bet. Let me tell you. Yes, it was. So many golds, were there golds everywhere? No, no, no. We got to age past the gold. Okay, all right. Because there's a bunch of people my age and older that were in that bad boy.

You know what I mean? But it's a lot of dudes that found what you need, boy, which is a woman that will wrap the UGK with you. Like, it was a lot of his and hers in there. Let's go. Yeah. But while I'm there, I look at my phone and it looked like Monica McNutt went on Sports Center from the salon. and she was getting her feet done and people decided to make that the thing

that they got mad about and then after those people got mad, people got mad about the fact that the other people got mad and it just turned into a forever argument. Dude, I saw this headline and I'm not going to lie, when I see a headline about a friend,

I always pause because I know that we always blame the media for their behaviors, but we also have culpability when we click on these things, right? Nobody gives a shit about your rage engagement or not or whether you're doing it out of protest. As soon as you engage, you have engaged. And you encourage them to put more dumbass stories out like this because you've engaged that. But the headline was so salacious.

I just had to click. The headline was like huge controversy after where Monica McNutt does one of her segments. And like low key in my head, I was like, oh my God, please God, Monty. Tell me that you did this from like the gynecologist. you were getting an annual or something and you're like, while I'm getting scoped, let me give you the scoop. I was just waiting for something so salacious.

I was so hopeful. And then they said she was getting a pedicure at a nail salon and I was like, this has got to be a fucking joke. I mean, like, this can't actually be real only because, and I feel like, listen, this has been debated for days and whatnot. Shout out to Mani.

She is a friend. So I understand that some of this is a little bit biased. but I don't think that it is. I've done this for a very long time, TV for a long time. And the whole point of working at ESPN is your availability. It is. And I have not talked to Moni about this because I think it's so silly. I have no idea if they called her and were like, we want you to come on. We don't care if you're at the nail salon. I don't really know any of the beats of this story. But I know having worked at ESPN, we have done hits with people at doctors offices. I did a hit with someone who were named nameless at a funeral. We've had like insiders tell us like give me one second. I'm in the bath. Like

when they want you on TV to respond or react to something, the whole idea is this raw, dirty, wherever you are, FaceTime. Dan Orlovsky's FaceTime's FaceTime's from the car with Pat McAfee. So I think it's because she's a woman and because she was doing a very feminine thing. You know, if Monica is like at the park working out, no one gives a shit. But because she's getting her nails done, then all of a sudden she's not being a professional. and I just think it's so silly and absurd. I wouldn't have put her on television. That's my thing.

If I am producing that... You wouldn't have put her on TV when you found out she was at the Nails show. Yeah, if I'm producing that show, now, I will say this, I've done a lot of hits. Why? I've done a lot of hits and a lot of weird places over the telephone.

Okay, sure. The reason why I would not is the whole reason that we're here right now, right? Like, I do think that when it's time, I did not think it was a big deal. right? Like I didn't think it was anything that should be a days long controversy, but it's like a perfect topic for morning radio. And those are the things that really get social media going or the kind of kind of things that people talk about on the breakfast. I mean the breakfast club, not that show generally. Like there's breakfast clubs all over the country.

Oh yeah. There's a million breakfast clubs. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right? Like this is the kind of topic that would go there. So, nah, if I'm producing the show and I need you on camera and you're sitting in the, oh, Okay, let me give a better example. When I wore that T-shirt that one time, right? The phone call I got, I've talked about this many times, so this isn't new. The phone call I got about the Caucasian's T-shirt made the point that all anybody is talking about right now on social media is your shirt and not anything that you have to say right now. Sure. And I said, you know what?

That's a fair point. I'll zip his hoodie up for you because that's, that is correct, right? if I turned on television, I would be thinking more about, wait a minute, is she getting her feet done than whatever it is that she's talking about. So I, as the producer, would not have done it. But the decision is that of the producer. It is the producer whose job it is to be like, eh, you know what, we'll catch you a little bit later, right?

Like, because also, and this is, Maccophie is a bad example, but a great example, because I think this is the McAfee occasion of that network, because McAfee has just had people sitting in cars, sitting wherever. Like the whole point of that is to not look like a television show. They don't talk like a television show. They cuss like it's not a television show. And now that whole network has little bits of all of that sprinkled in all over the place because the overall standard of presentation for the network has fallen

because the biggest star and most powerful man at the network establishes what the culture is. Well, I think too, honestly, I think after COVID, because again, I was there, I think ESPN realized, you know, they were spending so much money flying in analysts to do their shows every single week, sending these, you know, we call them TVUs, which is like moving units, you can set your own camera up. They're very expensive. They were doing all of these things. And then COVID happens. And they discover that like people don't actually really care that much if you've got a gorgeous backdrop and fresh lighting. Like if you're okay with it, they're really just there for the information. And I think the sort of stripped down. Zoom look of it all. We all spent years on Zoom. Like I think it told them or informed them that like people care more about the information than they care about the presentation of it. Obviously, you wouldn't want your main sports center show to be coming from a nail salon pedicure chair. But like if you, you know, if you're getting someone walking into a whatever or saying it's all good. Like we like that raw sort of dirty thing. So I won't just put that on the feet of Pat McAfee. I do think that like

the network just got to a place where they're like, we'll, you know, we'll take it. Instead of having to wait on Monica to finish her pedicure, get to a station, book the station, book a producer, so much easier just have her FaceTime. You know, no, no, no, no. There were other places that weren't studios that I think it probably would have played a little bit better, right? Like it would, where people would not have been like, is that blank? Like if she was in Central Park, for example, right?

Maybe it might have been like, oh, what a beautiful day. But it would not have gone there. I was just so shocked at how, because all of these things become cultural wars and they really just become who's on this side of the argument and who's on that side of the argument, then nobody could say, like, or have a potential for, yeah, you know, maybe I wouldn't done that, but it's not that big a deal, right? Like, everybody's got to dig in, but I admit that I am a bit of a stickler about, like, some of these things. I saw one of my buddies on television wearing sunglasses doing a hit, and I wanted to call them and be like, hey, man, to quote the great

Larry David, only two kinds of people wear sunglasses inside, blind people and assholes. Yes. Okay. This is, this is, reminds me of a very awkward moment that I had just a couple months ago where I was doing that thing where I just unsolicited offer up one of my hot takes. And one of my hot takes was, I think there's nothing douchier in the world than people that wear sunglasses and doors.

I think it's so dushy. I do. The person I said that to, I could tell right away that they do it. And they were like, well, if it is like compliments and, outfit or sometimes you just want to, I'm like, oh, do you do that? I'm so sorry, but I'm not sorry. I stand by everything I said. It's, I bow, am so old school that even if I'm outdoors and I'm wearing sunnies, if you start talking to me, I'm going to take them up because I was always taught to look people

in the eye. It's very rude when someone's talking to you to not look them in the eye. So I'm with you. Like, sunglasses inside is just so awkward to me. To me, it's the physical version of speaking in third person. Yeah, yeah, no, that is. That is. That is. That is. the best way to put that. Like, it is. And sunglasses. They never go wear no glasses inside. Yeah, yeah, no, no.

Sunglasses inside is just not a, like, unless you do it the Super Bowl shuffle, right? Like, it's not, it's not the, it's not the group. But I'm that guy. Like, this is, like, I just think there's certain ways you should go about. I also think something happened. The COVID point, I think, is very interesting. Because I think that it did change things for a period of time, because the context made people a bit more acceptable

of what was going on. Like this show moved to my house with COVID, for example, right? But I would also make the argument that like COVID allowed me to wear my hair out in 2022, but by 2023, I had to come back home. I was getting, the people were giving me a little bit of leeway in 2021. And even in 2022, that was long gone by 2020. So the COVID passes over. Yeah, yeah, the COVID pass ended, right?

You'd be able to get on TV, not shaving and shit, everything else because you couldn't go. No, no, no. The context changed. And I think some of that has also come in with a bit of the like production value stuff. For example, the production set up on this show since I came to wave is much different than it was when I was at ESPN. And the big thing was if we increase the production value, it becomes easier to sell. And it does, in fact, turn up numbers. Like people are inclined to look at it and say, oh, this looks like more of a professional operation.

You'll find people in the YouTube comments who will be critical of the fact that I am shooting this at home. And I'm like, buddy, we have a, this is an actual fashion studio. Like, yes, it is at home, but it's not like I'm sitting here with a laptop. But people's standards have again gone. And then we saw people started going back to these studios. Now, I'm amazed by these regular motherfuckers that got these podcasts that like 87 people listen to. and they are sitting in an actual factual studio doing them. Like, that's where I say that COVID part is over.

And I still don't know who's paying for all these podcasts. I have no idea who's paying for all these podcasts that nobody's listening to. Well, I mean, nobody's paying for them. It's very easy, you know. If you go into a studio, somebody paying for the studio. Sure. Well, they're paying for it. They're just self-financing.

It's like you start a production company, which is very easy to do, start an escort, and then everything that you buy for your production company is a write-off. So essentially, you know, they're able to self-fund these things. And they do. Like there's been some podcast that catch me. I'm like, this looks so professional. And you think it's like this big. And then you realize they have, you know, 250 listeners.

And you're like, wow, but they fool you. And then on the other hand, you see some podcasts that, like, do really well. And it's just a Zoom box. It's a Zoom 2 box. I don't know what the sweet spot is in terms of production value. but I'll lean on you as someone that's been doing your own thing for a long time that like people do care about how it looks more so than just, you know, the sort of raw dirtiness of look at me, you know, I'm here and like I'm doing content.

Hold on. I have to, you just said about those people self-funding their podcast. So it made me think about something. Uh-oh. Okay. This is going to sound dark in the beginning, but I promise it's not. Okay. So like when you will watch them down,

documentaries or them shows or read them stories about Avern Hernandez. Patience. The dude, Oden Lloyd, rest in peace. He played on like the football team. It was just him and his partners and they, you know, they got in pads and they played tackle football. I forget the name of the team, but it was made very, and all the stories is they built the story of Oden Lloyd. They just talked about like how important it was for him to have this team. And they were really talking about that team like it was the Packers.

Like they was really loaded up on it. And I was like, brother, I could not imagine loving football enough to get out there and play tackle football for the fucking love of the game as a grownup. You and other grownups are out here injuring and maiming each other playing tackle football for no other reason than fun. I can't imagine wanting to do it so bad to pay that. price. And that is how I feel about the idea of these people self-funded these podcasts. I cannot imagine what I do so bad to spend your own money to do it. Your own like I mean spend your own money. Like if you got a home set up right and you just, you know, we're just getting this thing going. Maybe you invest in some time or whatever it is. But like you said, go into an actual studio.

Like you love this more than me. And now I need to go look in the. mirror and ask myself what kind of man I am. Because clearly I'm not, I'm not nearly as gangster about my shit as I thought I was. Yeah, well, something's clearly missing from your life. I don't know. I feel like tackle,

grown man tackle football, like maybe not even as bad as like grown man rugby. Because I'm with you. I'm like, you know, beer league softball teams. It's like, yeah, for all of us after leads, like that's the sweet spot.

It's a little bit competitive, but you can literally still drink beer while you're doing it. It's not that. physical and it's fun, camaraderie and hanging out. But the people that choose like real sports, like physical contact sports for love of the game is so absurd to me. I'm like, you are, how do you explain that? Like I'm 50 and I torn my ACL because I was playing rugby with the chaps. Hey, look, man, I have spent the vast majority of my adult life simply trying not to be injured. And I was so mad at myself, I was trying to ride a mountain bike in the Dolomites in June.

And I fell off, landed, broke a bone in my wrist, right? Yeah, yeah. But like I'm a G-do. I happened, and that same day, that same day, I hiked like nine and a half miles and 50 flights, according to the phone. And for those of you who need context on this, it was kind of like that time Tio played in the Super Bowl. You know what I'm saying?

Like, that's how I felt at least. I was out there thugging it out. It was a long day. I got laws, all that stuff, right? But my whole thing. And for those asking what happened, I was on an e-mot, modern bike, and I was going down a hill, and I needed to hit the downshift button to help me slow down, and I accidentally hit the other button. And so I started going faster, and I hit the brake.

And I felt like I went over the handlebars. Like, I don't know exactly what happened, but boom, I hit the ground, and I was like, damn, here I am injured. And it's been a real fucking hassle to be a single man with a broken right wrist trying to get stuff done at my house. You're righty, too, right? Yes, yes. I ain't never wanted lifetime companionship more in my life that I'm watching them dishes just stack up. Because washing dishes with nothing but your left hand, it's a tough break, man. Try to clean the bathtub with just your left hand. Like all those things, it was not good, right?

I went to goddamn Summer League and I had one of them braces on, right? And that's a DAP intensive environment, man. I was having to hit people with the real slow try to adapt, to let them know because I was winding up in some awkward moments. I saw Plexico Burris outside the park MGM and he ain't see what happened. And they went to the Dap and, buddy, strong hands.

You got there, Mr. Wide receiver. It's Stefanski, former general manager of the Sixers. I think he works for the Sons. I saw him in the elevator. And he didn't see like a man that would understand the DAP. So I just went with the handshake. Oh, that hurts too, I'm sure. Oh, that was tough.

It was real tough. And I'm saying all that to say, and ACL tear is a grown-up. I can't believe y'all are hooping and have not transitioned to golf. Is it awkward when you're a grown-up and you have to explain injuries like that? Because undoubtedly someone looks at your wrist and they go, what happened? And you're like, I fell off a bike. Not only that.

It's that the assumption, and I think this is maybe as a, okay, the assumption if you are a man and you have said these injuries is that you must have been doing something stupid. Oh, yeah, for sure. Carcore. Yes, an injured woman under these circumstances, it is a much different level of concern. Yes. People trying to figure out how to...

You're not doing something brave for your children when you broke your wrist, weren't you? Yeah, people try to figure out the thing without saying the thing, you know? Like, so, but everything's good. Like, you're fine, you're, you know, how are things that... Everything's in the house is okay, cool.

But yeah, I just don't want to get injured. And so when people are actively in for real athletic activity, as grown-ups. You got to see Nuesiros Hermannos Al Parque

Hugando baseball in Los Finns de Semana in the Parques in New York City. Woo! Boy, them boys be taking that baseball

seriously out there. It's like a real baseball game. Oh, for sure. I always imagine. I can't imagine how they women complain about how

they ain't got money for X, Y, and Z, but they got them jerseys and them bats and everything else. And they got to go sit out there 100 degrees and cheer for these motherfuckers like it's the National League Championship series. I'm like, I see a lot of room for injury in these games, brother.

My sister is 49 years old and she still plays on like a softball team that by the way is so competitive that she said to me the other day, yeah, in a few weeks we'll be headed to nationals. I was like, I'm sorry, bitch, what? There's a nationals for 50 year old women that play softball. What? And I think like, That's why it's funny because that's why I think there's this big move towards pickleball. The pickleball is sneaky because people tell you you can play as a three-year-old and you can play as a 99-year-old. But because of that, there is no stretching involved in pickleball. And I have had a couple pickleball matches where I've seen someone tear an Achilles or a brain a knee because they don't,

because they still are ultra competitive about it, but they don't do any fucking stretching. And then they shred their quads open. Bigs fears. Achilles tear is my biggest fear. Biggest fear. Let me tell you to say, do you, I know, because you played softball when you were younger, right? Do you got that dog in you? Oh, yeah. Okay.

I ain't really got that dog in me. I have that dog in me about certain things. It takes a lot for you to push me to the like, like I am a, I'm a like steady determined type, right? But I ain't really got that dog in me. I don't care that much about it. I used to have that dog in me and I realized it wasn't making me happy. And so I kind of was like, hey, you just got to got a light, do your best, be happy with that. so forth and so on.

Is there nothing that gets you crazy competitive though, Bo? Oh, like, there are things. It just, it takes a lot to get me to the place, right? But once I'm there, you know, if there's some level of insult, insult that has taken place. There it is. If you feel a condescension, you're going to eviscerate. Yeah, yeah, yeah, now we got to go. But my mama.

Uh-oh. My mama got that dog in her, right? Like, I grew up, and people who talk about growing up at a house where their parents let them win. I don't know nothing about that. Joneses do not traffic in that. Like that dog come out in them Scrabble games. Like we ain't played one in a while, but like that's, you know, it goes there.

So anyway, my mother, this is 20-something years ago. She is in her 60s when this happens, or late 50s, not sure which. And she was playing softball on the team. My mother was a dean of business at Alabama A&M, and I think it was the business school had a team in the softball league or whatever. I feel like I also receive this call.

I can't remember, but it may have just been my brother, right? And now that I think about it, I think this is the 90s. I think I was in college because I feel like I received this as an answering receiving message. My mother is at bat and she got a hold of one. She turned on it, hit that thing to the outfield. She gets the first base. she rounds second, she pulls her hamstring, and she lands, and I want to say she dislocated her shoulder or some similar injury, right? Oh, that's so painful.

Yeah, like I know my dad had a thing where he got in a car wreck and he broke his ankle, and I think he either broke something to separate his shoulder, like on opposite sides, right? So he had to be in the wheelchair. You couldn't even crutch it up. But anyway, my mom had something similar to that. and she called, I think she called me too, but she called my brother from the, from the ebulance. Because I think they took her in the abelands. And I also think they gave us some dope, right?

Because these are seriously painful injuries. Oh, yeah. That we're talking about. And she explains to us that she got a hold of that pitch, and that she went around first, and then she tripped, and then she fell. But the thing that she wanted us to know, that she made it to second base.

Let's go. She was safe too. She got to second base. Now, I don't know if the fact that she got to second base safely is because those people would be in nice and did not tag her out like I would have. But she got the second base. And I just say all that to say, Barbara Jones got that dog in her. I love that. Like, I think there is nothing better than the competitive nature that compels you to still try to get to the base even though.

your body is breaking down in front of you. Like, good for her. She's like, I had a singular focus, which was to get to that base in damn and I was going to do it. My all-time Kobe thing is he made those free throws after you tours of Killies. He made the free throws and walked off,

the most impressive thing that he ever did, right? But yeah, fighting out, because my mother's a very nice woman. She says a very nice woman with that dog in her, you know? Mina Kimes. Mina Kimes got that dog in her. I don't know everything.

She says in Pink Paul. Pink Paul braids the dog out of. But you can hear when she tells the stories. It's like, well, no, the dog is right. The dog is right there. I don't know that I think in general I'm like pretty competitive. Like I'm that person that sees the feel good social media stories where they're like, this track star fell down and this one guy could have passed him to win, but he stopped

and carried him to the finish line. I'm always like, boo. Like you should have ran past them and then came back and helped him after he won. But I find that like my guy. kids are crazy, crazy competitive. And I keep being told, like, you don't want to squash competitive spirit in little kids. It's, like, much better to have that than the alternative, which is a kid that has no competitive bone at all.

But in our house, it can get really bad because my parents are really competitive. So when we're, like, in the backyard, just playing stickball with our kids, like, my dad's running over, my five-year-old son. Like, we do not play when it comes to any games. We all want to win, like all of us. So in our house, it's smarty pants. games. And so like I remember when I was a teenager, Jeffrey. No, the family, oh no, no, I ain't nobody can't anybody fuck with me on.

I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't got it no more. I'm out of practice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, on that, yeah, on that, yeah, on that, on that, yeah, on that, yeah, wasn't anybody, wasn't anybody doing that. Uh, but we discovered taboo as a family of my teenage years. And so the thing about taboo, though, was my brother and sister who are, my brother's 13 years old to me, my sister's 10 years older than me. They had a hack, which is they grew up together. Yeah. So, their ability to deviate off the card was amazing and they loved playing taboo. But then I got a little older and I remember me and my brother wound up on a team against my

sister and one of her other English major friends and, you know, somebody else. We had a different hack on our team, which was rap music. Right? Like black people are the cheat code for taboo because the game is culturally biased. So there are the words that we. might use are simply not going to be on the car, right? So we're getting head in the book without crashing it. Whip, keep it going, right? Like, this is what we can do. I ain't played a game with taboo with my sister since then, and that was nearly 30 years ago. Wow. She was like,

no, the hack had been discovered. She, you know, I don't even really like playing that game that much anyway. I'm just not competitive. And that's the thing is that competitive people will pretend like they're not competitive, but it's just because it's something that they're not good at and they know they have no shot of winning. And that's the ultra, ultra competitive person as someone that won't even try if they don't think they have a real shot. Or you just got to, if you are that person, you got to regulate the level of investment that you have, that you, that you're going to put into this. Because otherwise, man, he's going to be mad just for the sake of being mad. Like, I know it's in me. There are a lot of things that are in me that, that you know what? Sometimes we've

got tamped that down, keep it cool. you know what it means? Like, do you like a good escape room? Oh, not really. Oh, man, I love a good escape room. Not really. I know. I'm a great escape room teammate, though,

because I understand, like, the larger group dynamics and as long as everybody can assign themselves a task, but there's nothing worse when you go to the escape room and you get other people who misunderstood, who I imagine in their crew, they're the escape room leaders. In their crew. Yeah, that's the problem. I'm too type A, bow, and I can't just, I can't just,

feel confident that you're doing your role to get us out of this room, I'm going to want to go double-check your shit. And then like, so it's just too much. Some people. I can't delegate in those rooms. I don't feel, I need the control. I actually think that there are a great study and people typically figure it out. Like, somebody got to go chop up these vegetables.

You know what I mean? Go get everything set up for, but the chef-chefs, we over here. You understand what I'm saying? I think that people can often figure it out very quickly. but then you get in the escape room and you find the people who'd be like, yeah, this guy was telling me

he had gone to an escape hospital. Like, he gets deep in the escape room game. I love a good escape room, though. That's not my thing at all. You're an escape room guy. I would not have thought you to be, are you a puzzles guy? Like you Sudoku and crosswords and...

I am crossword. Sudoku, kind of, and not really. But I am crossword. I played a spelling bee every morning. I played a wordle. I played a Connections game. and a sports connection gay. Yeah, I actually was a speaker

at a puzzle convention in Mohawk, New York a couple years ago. Wait, there's a puzzle convention. There's a puzzle convention, boy. I had a very good time there. Now, let's be clear, I was by far the coolest motherfucker there.

There's no disputing that part. But I also met a couple that had a website called Escape Room Artist.com, I believe, and they go check out Escape Rooms all around the world. Their presentation was incredible. I learned a whole lot about escape rooms from talking to them.

And the next time I go to the Netherlands, the Netherlands apparently has the bomb escape rooms. I would like to try one of those there. Now, my solo travel thing makes that a little difficult. You understand what I'm saying? But I enjoy, yeah, I like getting my logic on in there in those sorts of settings. Wow, that's a great point. What do you like, if you wanted to hit one of these fire escape rooms but you were traveling solo,

would you like stand outside like a solicitor and try to team up with other people? Would you put it out on like the Reddit post? The question I would have is, because normally you do the escape room, there's like a group of people. Sure. Like you and then others. So if I could be certain that other people were going to be there, you had to pull up by myself. No problem. And I guarantee you this.

By the time it was over, they'd be saying, I, I, I told them to do something. You know what I mean? Hey, go get that. Check that out. I, I, cap'am. You know what I'm saying? Like, I bet you it would go down like that. Let me ask you this.

If it was possible that you could do it alone. is it an accomplishment or is it kind of pathetic to do an escape room by yourself? I'll do just about anything by myself. Like, that's the thing. I've been, I've been all over the world by myself. I've spent time in four different continents by myself. I'll go anywhere by myself. However, I have had that exact thought.

I have wondered that, like, you pull up to the escape room for Dolo. like what that look like. Yeah, because I think solo traveling is such a thing. Like when I got older, I forced myself to go and take myself out to dinner by myself and like go to a movie by myself. I'm with you on all that. But I do wonder if you go to an escape room by yourself,

if you become that guy who like to all the workers there, like you're like that pathetic guy that is back at the escape room by himself. So here's what I would think about that. I think that if a lot of people pulled up like that, they would think that. I think they would be a little more confused by the fact that it was me. Like, I'm sure they have a lot of people who do that. And I, the resemblance between me and them. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, like that, that, that resemblance, like, might not exactly be it. The other point that I would like to make is, and, I mean, there's no nice way to say this. Uh-oh. Yes, person that works at the escape rule. Judge me. Keep going. Say more. Let me know when it's my turn to go. Dude, you literally read my mind. As I was saying it, I was like, I mean, at the end of the day, I will say that is my,

it can sound snobby or condescending or any of those things. It doesn't come from that place. I worked in retail. I did all those jobs too. but there is nothing that grinds my gears more than when you go into a luxury spot or a whatever type of spot and the people that work there judge you based on whether they think you can afford to shop there

and I'm like you can't fucking afford to shop here why are you judging me you work here your name is not Bergdorf Goodman let me tell you no matter what why are you judging me why are you being a snob to me Like not to sound like pretty woman, but like big mistake. I'm just saying. And like it's always befuddled the mind when you're in these luxury spaces, luxury hotels, whatever.

I've been fortunate enough to be in those. I know you have too. And the people are snobby to you. I'm like. See, I'll be noticing. I can't notice nothing, though I will tell you this. God, this is going to sound so 1%. But what benefit of using a travel agent is it cuts down on a lot of that.

Oh, the shenanigans? Yeah. Because there's somebody, there's some intermediary that is vouched for you in some form of fashion. And they can't, you know, like, you kind of get that. But look, no matter what it is, not even on that luxury, it could be on low, whatever it is. At the end of the day, the thing that is going to be the same when I walk in here and when I walk out of here, as I am always going to be me and you are always going to be you. No matter what that means, no matter who you are, no matter how you choose to interpret that,

that is the immutable fact. Like, nobody can ever make me feel shaky on any of that. stuff because no matter what it is, I am who I am and you are who you are and both of us going have to deal with that. That was LeBron. Hey man, after this, I'm going to go back to my life. You're going to go back to your life and all them hit dogs started screaming all over the place. He said we was broke. No, your broke ass just don't know how you're going to pay the rent. He didn't say that. It was at the top of your mind, right? Like I've been meditating and it is interesting to meditate because what you learn is what your background apps are.

like the thoughts that you drift to. Like I learned that I have unplanned things. That's what runs in the back. Those are the background apps for me. It's trying to go like set. Oh, I got something to do this weekend. Something to figure out, right?

That's what I do. Some of y'all background apps, boy, man, they'd be setting off that virus scan. You understand what I'm saying? Maybe they'd be corrupting your hard drives, boy. That's what happened when LeBron did that. Like some people show up and they'd be sending them, sending people background apps.

Hey, wire. That's what happens when you walk in that nice place and man a woman start talking to you, crazy. I ever tell you about what I bought the Rolex. God, I know how this sounds. But anyway, I would just tell this story and it will go. So, this is what I lived in Miami. And it was the first time I had gotten like a capital C contract, I would say. And so I decided I was going to go get a watch. So it's New Year's Eve, 2016. I'm with my girlfriend at the time and we walk in to the Rolex store. And it's this woman and it's this man. And the man elbowed the woman when I walked in.

like you got this one. So I get in there and I look at a watch. It's very nice watch and the woman says to me, oh, you're looking at that watch. I was like, yeah, tell me about that. She says, yes, that is very nice.

It only comes in the platinum. And I was like, how much does it cost? You see, that it's $89,000, or $84,000. I was like, hey, what about that watch? Like, I was trying to, like, pivot without, like, you know, giving the game away, right?

I'm like, ooh, I didn't know that's how much these things cost. And then I like got back into the family of ones that like seemed like a thing to me. And I wound up making the purchase. And so they do this obnoxious thing at the Rolex store when you buy a watch. They say, congratulations. I'm like, I'm not the one getting the commission. Right. You know?

And so they're like, congrats. So that's what they do. They say congratulations, man. First person say congratulations to me was elbow man. He's walked past me because they also, they bring you a glass of champagne. Of course. Elbow man. It's like, congratulations.

That could have been your money, big dog. Hit him back with that pretty woman. Big mistake. You work off commission, right? Big mistake. I'm just saying if I worked at a watch store in Miami and a six-foot-three black man walked in looking for a watch, I would assume maybe he hooped or did something like that.

All the time somebody asked me if I play basketball, and it's not you? You ain't about this money. But my thing is, Beau, like you don't even have to make any assumptions. And a job like that, you are maybe making a couple of sales a week because it's just, right? Like, that's not, people don't come in and buy Rolexes. You're not selling five, six Roles a day. It's just not happening.

And so you should treat every single person as potential commission because you don't know when that next commission is coming. So ultimately, but I will say there is nothing more humbling than like being that person that's like, yeah, you know, I got a little bit of money. Like, I, like, let me build up my confidence. I belong at this store. You know, these people in their judgment. I belong at this bitch.

I could buy this bitch. Then you walk in and you start looking at price tags. And you're like, oh my God, no. Look, that's what living in Miami for four years was. Correct. I always tell this story. I lived on 50th and Collins. I lived in Miami.

And I could look across the intercoaster waterway. And there were the houses, right? You know, there's people with the condos and the monies in the houses. The houses aren't on the beach. The houses are on the waterway. And I saw this cat man across the way, man, his boat. Man, that boat was five. And I would wake up every morning

and I could look at that boat from my balcony. And then I would think about every day how that guy would get up. And when he went out on his port, he wasn't looking at that boat. He was looking at that next man's boat that was just shitting all over his boat. It was a whole different class of caliber of boat

that that man had over there. And it was a metaphor for life, man. You never keep up. Ever. You can never keep up. Like if that's your goal, if that's what you try to prove, you'll never prove it because somebody going to test you in the next stop you made.

You go to this conference every year in Sun Valley, which is like the wealthiest of the wealthy of the wealthy. They're allowed to go. I only go because like I do panels. It's not because I'm a person of note. But when you talk about there's always someone that has more, I'll never forget being at like a dinner. And like, of course, I'm flying domestic with my family. You know, we're flying Delta to Boise and then driving two and a half hours to say. Sun Valley. And I'm sitting at this table with all of these people. And I'm like, when,

when are you guys getting out of here tomorrow? Because it's the last night. And they're like, eh, we'll probably, I don't know, we'll figure it out, maybe sometime after lunch. And I'm remembering these motherfuckers all fly private. They don't have a time that they leave. They just leave whenever they want. And I'm over here like, we leave at 305 p.m. to make our 515 bus. But then, to your point, At this same table, the conversation starts, I am now excluded from this conversation. This is private jet conversation. And the people amongst them start talking and they're like, well, we got to get out of here before this guy does because his jet is bigger.

And the rule of thumb is at private airports, bigger the jet, first in line. If you got a big boy, you get to go first. And so they were all talking about their strategy of when to leave so that they could get out before the big jets decided to make their way to the runway. at which point they would have to all wait. And I'm like, so not only do some of these people own private planes, but then there is a hierarchy of those that own private planes. Yes.

Yes. You have a jet. It's like, it is absurd. When I first got on at ESPN, I had dinner with a very prominent person at the network, whom I will leave unnamed. And that person was explaining to me how he had been told when he got on, don't buy the house that you can afford, buy the house that you want, because you're going to be able to afford it. And he talks about how he instead bought the house that he could afford and how he regretted it and wished that he had bought the house that he wanted.

And his lesson to me was to buy the house that you wanted. And I want to be clear, that was the worst advice anybody ever gave me, and I did not take it. and that is the best decision I ever made was to not take that ridiculous advice. What the fuck are you talking about? Like my mind still isn't in this place. I need you to text me right now who that was so that I can laugh at the...

I'll tell you this though, when I tell you, and just for people, it's not who they think I'm talking about. But you're going to see it and be like, oh, yeah, I can see it. Right? Right. Right? I mean, for him, it worked out. 100%

yes that advice from him totally makes sense because this person is a person that has had so much it was not a straight line no like it was

people be saying wild shit that's all I got to say some of the advice right right and now as I put down my glass where my pinky has been up as we have gone through this entire discussion

though I did try to humble myself in it this is Elle Duncan whom you can find at Netflix sports doing amazing, super cool things, whom I need to catch up with and whom I am always so glad and grateful that she gives us her time.

I appreciate you. I love you, Bo. You're the absolute best. Catch me on Iowa. I'll be hanging out in a cornfield in Iowa next week. Oh, you feel of dreaming. Field of dreams.

So check us out next week if you can. Boy, I tell you, I can't wait for your memoirs about the first year of the Netflix touring. Oh, the places I've seen? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. There we go.

Thank you so much. And ladies and-law, thank you, darling. Ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us here on the right time. We do this a couple

times a week during the summer. Mike McQuaid's handling everything behind the scenes. Thank you, sir. Hit the voicemail line 3-23-9-6-7-67.

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