The Right Time with Bomani Jones - Mina Kimes on Eagles-Chiefs rematch, 49ers injury concerns, Arch Manning Mania | 09.12

Episode Date: September 12, 2025

Bomani Jones is joined by Mina Kimes of ESPN & Omaha Productions. They start by discussing the upcoming Super Bowl rematch between the Philadelphia Eagles & the Kansas City Chiefs. They later discuss the issues, discussing Lamar Jackson & the Ravens, how big of a deal Brock Purdy's injury is, and if the Lions are in trouble. Finally, they discuss Tebowmania, the Shedeur Sanders discourse and what's next for Arch Manning. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the right time, a wave original. My name is Beaumani Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. It is Mina Combs Friday.

Meena Kimes for All Things ESPN. What's going on? Hello. Wow. Have I co-opted Foxworth Friday today? Whoever gets on Friday still gets the presentation, even though it lacks. the all, you know, do the thing, you know what I'm saying? Can your listeners come up with a Mina name for me?

I would appreciate that. All right. I am going to offer this opportunity from them, and I am going to cross my fingers that they don't embarrass me in front of my friends. Like, this is a, this is an ask the kids. Oh, Craig, don't show me no fool with me. Speaking of being made a fool of, we got a lot going on here in week two. Week two is always interesting to me, though,

because week two of the NFL season is not quite like week two of the college football season, which is always terrible because they frontload so many good games. And then there's nothing left. Like we got a couple sneaking out here. And they gave us Super Bowl rematch, the Eagles and the Chiefs. And I guess they both had short week, me long weeks because of playing in the middle of the week, except the Chiefs had to come back from Brazil after getting their asses kicked. Like, is it Rout Rose-on for the Chiefs if they look?

this game? No. No. I'm not throwing Duran the Chiefs in week two. I'm fine. But it's not going to feel great. The funny thing is I think

despite being in the Super Bowl, both of these teams sort of had underwhelming week ones. I think with the Eagles, obviously you can explain a lot of that away with the Jalen Carter

ejection. However, also it's like, well, that's it? You take out Jalen Carter? Is this defense no longer doubt? I think that is kind of scary feeling for Eagles fans, also seeing what they knew was a vulnerability all off season, the second cornerback position be so glaringly exposed as one.

But I think what, and this is why week one's so funny, context is kind of hard to, like, you're watching these and you're thinking, wow, Daniel Jones looks amazing, but is the Dolphins defense just cheeks, right? I think the Cowboys offense is actually a lot better than people think, and I think that played into it as well. So I think the Eagles are going to bounce back in a big way. a lot more skeptical about the chiefs in this one. All right. I want to stick with the Eagles there because I think, I think the difference

in part of why the Eagles performance, aside from the fact that they won, wouldn't be quite as disappointing is, I think we all, at least I did, felt confidence saying, even if the Eagles were better than everybody else, they were going to be worse this year than they were last year. Like I heard your man, Dano talking about this. They lost two guys in free agency who got $100 million to play defensive line, right? Like, it's just impossible to keep a team like that together. But then we felt like the chiefs got better, right? Now, part of it is Rashid Rice is going to come back, but he's not back back. He's just back on the team.

Hollywood Brown, a couple other moves. You know, we thought that they had improved. The chiefs, you just pointed to something. And, you know, I'm always here to speak for the underrepresented and the Don downtrodden. But yes, the chiefs have, I mean, not the chiefs, the Eagles. The Eagles have a problem at number two corner. but I feel like the solution is right there in the slot,

just maybe a little bit, you know, they don't want to fix the problem when the man is right there ready to do it. They might have to do that. And isn't that always how history gets made from my out of necessity? That's when true racial pioneers step up to the plate is when there's no other choice.

There's no other choice. Yeah, Jackie Robinson to Jean, could absolutely play outside. I don't know, though, because he's so good in the slot. I think it's a matchup thing. You know, if you're playing it. The thing about, too, the NFL now is like, slot corner is no longer like, oh, let's just stick our littlest worst guy there.

It's actually really, really important. Like, a lot of teams play their best receiver in the slot. So I feel like, you know, you got to be kind of wary of moving him, especially because he's such a good nickel. He's so good at tackling. He's so physical. I think the solution to the Eagles cornerback two problem is playing the Kansas City Chiefs. I mean, right, like, because the problem with the Cowboys, and this is what I was saying about how they're, I think they're better than everyone thinks.

They got two ones. Yeah. How do we think about George Pickens? He is a one. Very few teams have that kind of wide receiver death. And boy, do the Kansas City Chiefs not have that kind of wide receiver death. Do you ever think that Riley Moss is just a little bit sick of hearing about Cooper? like he ain't right there actually playing outside corner for maybe the best defense in the NFL.

And I think people don't even know that he to OG Cooper D. He was also good last year before he got hurt. And unfortunately, he came back, I think from the injury, not Riley Moss himself. And then he got killed by, I think the Bengals was that one in national game. Because yeah, you're right. He is. He was the O.G Cooper. He also has the misfortune of playing opposite Patrick Sertan, which means he just gets thrown at.

constantly. It's unfortunate. Well, first of all, that was going to be the plan coming out of the huddle already, right? Like, he could be opposite Beaumonti Jones, and they're going to be like, nah, Riley Moss, let's see if that's the guy that we're going to pick on it to approve and otherwise. Yeah. I mean, and Quino Mitchell, to be fair, he's not certain yet, but he's really good.

And I think he has that effect. Can I say something to know about the Chiefs? Yeah. I, after all this wide receiver talk, I know we're correctly criticizing that. their offense. I'm more worried about the defense, man, after week one. I think that was kind of like, you talked about how everyone thought the chiefs would be better. I think there's this assumption that because Steve Spagnolo is so good and Chris Jones is so good, they can just keep cycling in these young dbs that no one's ever heard of, like all named Justin and Josh and it's going to be fine.

And it was not fine at all against the chargers. And I think kind of maybe that got slept on a little bit this offseason that they have really gotten younger and younger on defense. I would also point out that Chris Jones is 31 years old. And you know, you can only expect but so much. Like I get worried and I know that that back and forth that he had with, I've already forgotten the dude's name in the game of Brazil. Tire and tart.

Yeah, but when teams start like, it was like I felt about the league neighbors. Hey, man, when it's like this in week one, y'all already snippy in week one. We just got here. We just showed up.

Yeah. Sorry, it wasn't tired. So Tiretter was the charges, uh, defensive tackle who hit Travis Kelsey. Yes. That was crazy. Uh, yeah.

Yeah. It's, I don't know, though. We've just done this movie with the chiefs so many times. I'm not going to throw a, I think it's hard to, too, after watching the Ravens and the Bills who, my feeling coming into the season where those were very too clearly the two best teams in the AFC.

I kept the chiefs in that tier out of respect. But watching all three of those teams this weekend. And especially watching Sunday night football, it just felt like those teams are cut above Kansas City right now. And so it's just, I don't know. Can you imagine the chiefs in that game that we saw between Lamar and Josh? It just feels different. I feel that way, though.

I mean, you just got to wait for the Ravens to get a little yippie, right? Like they have, I feel like, demonstrated themselves to be the yip masters. You don't want to be the ones we know as the Yip Masters. And look, Josh Allen has spent a lot of his career being a Yip Master, but he's not a Yip Master all the time, right? Like he might have a yippie moment, but he just looked like Superman in this game. Yeah, I think that we can,

the Yips are pretty much kind with him. I hate the Ravens thing so much. I hate talking about the Baltimore Ravens, because I am a person who wants to believe that, like, football is logical and you can analyze teams and figure out their weaknesses and game plans and like go in and you look through numbers and understand what's going wrong. And then you give me the Baltimore Ravens and I'm just, I'm just like, I don't know what to do with this. Like as an analyst, you know what I mean?

Like, what do you do with this? A team that loses in weird, stupid ways in big moments, different ways. I don't, I don't, I don't, I do not know what to do with this team. I just don't. A thing that I always lean on and it's very important. You can never forget is we got all this other stuff and then we got people stuff. Right. And people stuff comes up.

We talked about this with Dominique last week. And Dominique does not like to say that people can't handle moments or pressure or whatever it was. Like he just doesn't like to do it. But I think that that is an incontrovertible fact. We see it all over the place. We are all built to do different things in different ways. Like us doing television, for example, there's some things I always feel about doing television. You can or you can't.

I can't necessarily make you better at it. But there's some people, a red light comes on and they're going to freeze. It doesn't matter how smart they are. It doesn't matter how much they know or whatever. That light comes on and they ain't got it, right? This happens on other spaces. This happens in sports where you get into your head and you start thinking so much about what it is that you have to do. And it is something that can be.

overcome. And by the way, to be seen as a champion, you don't have to overcome it all the time. You just need to pop up and do it once or twice. But to Ravens, I think it's generally speaking a top down situation. And that is why I think it's just about time up for John Harbaugh. Because Lamar ain't the only person this happens to it. In fact, in the game in Buffalo last year, it happened to Lamar early. He pulled it together. And it was Mark Andrews that then wound up wetting his pants in front of everybody. If it's always somebody, we got to start looking at who's in charge. Yeah. Well, and I also think Harbaugh in that game, you can correctly criticize him for being conservative at the end and turtling up. And that's that's, yeah. And I think I don't,

the problem is, I don't, not the problem, because I do agree with you at a certain point if your team that keeps doing this and running into walls, there's really no one else to blame, right? I will say, though, like, you know, that has not been the problem in other moments where they've gone conservative so I just don't it's so it's so frustrating for me like I feel like the good doctor trying to solve a medical mystery I don't know why I went to the autistic doctor on television there but TV like I just see a lot of commercials for that show um yeah I just because we get asked right on these TV shows like what what's wrong with them and it's my least favorite kind of football analysis which is people just talking about vibes and but at the certain

point, there's really nothing else you can do with the Baltimore Ravens. They're so good. Like for 80% of that team, they looked like very, a game, pardon me. They looked so clearly like the best team in the NFL. And then it just all, it all fell apart. And it makes me, and it's going to be annoying too, because now until the end of the season, even if, let's say, they rebound and they start dominating teams, everybody's just going to say, cool, do it in January. And they're not wrong, but I hate that enough. I hate that. I hate that. I hate that. I that argument. I hate it so much. I do think, though, you say, you don't

like everybody's side of light, Stu Gautz. I do think, though, that if nothing else, looking at the box score of the game against Buffalo, ever watching it, but the box score kind of tells the story. And look, they were so effective on the ground that they didn't throw the ball that much. However,

I think number two receiver is more of a discussion for them than we kind of give it credit for being. Like, it's what's the left of D.I. Andre Hopkins is what you're kind of leaning on in this. You're also leading all kind of whatever's left to Mark Andrews, right? Like, these are, I don't feel like these are things that are promised to you for the entirety of a season at this point.

That is where I would work. Yeah. Well, how about the defense, though? I mean, that was, because the offense really until the last two drives wasn't the issue. The lack of pass rush jumped out to me. And they've been so good at creating, like, jining up a pass rush through scheme. they don't have like a dominant rusher on that defensive line but I felt I think this is a great example of like okay but let's week one like yes it didn't look like the past rush was getting it

done but also Josh Allen might be the hardest quarterback to sack outside of your own quarterback and all the football and the bill's offensive line is awesome so I don't want to overreact to the defense and the lack of pass rush in this because I think a lot of that was just Buffalo it's going to be interesting if Buffalo turns out to be that good, right? Dude, the defense is not good though. I know. They were good for point. The one drive word mattered, but the whole game they were getting gashed.

I know. I'm actually really interested in this week's game against the Jets for that reason. Because the Jets looked like a very good rushing team week one. And the Bills team just got ran through. So let's see. Right. Is this going to be an issue all year? We're going to find out.

Yeah, no, this is. AFC is going to be fun, man. AFC is going to be fun to check. I want to get back to the chiefs on this question because I don't have the great answer for it, right? And you go back through the history of the NFL. And I know a few people have written this piece over the years. Like, I feel like either Grantland or the Ring or one of those incarnations of Simmons World has done this. But when you go and see who's held the belt for being the best quarterback in the league,

it is not quite the straight line that you think it is, right? Like when Joe Montana retired, people of my age and a little older had a fair point that he was the greatest quarterback of all time. But it didn't really get to a place where people thought he was like the best quarterback in the NFL really until like 1989, 1990. Dan Marino was the best quarterback in the NFL from 1984 to 1986 without question. I'm not sure he was ever the best quarterback in the league after that, but you're not going to tell me the Dan Marino got worse.

You know what I mean? Like that just, that doesn't add up. And I think that we're at that place now with Mahomes, the greatest quarterback that I have ever seen, yet it's hard to say that he's better than Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson right now. But I don't know how much of that is his fault because he was still out here doing that Matrix shit in Brazil completing passes that seemed humanly impossible.

The way I would put, okay, if you shuffle all of the quarterbacks and put them on each other's teams, right? Like if you took Matric Mahomes and put them on either the bills with their dominant run game, with Ravens also with dominant run game and those tight ends, they're ever like, I am of the belief

and I love Josh Allen Lamar that the offenses would look just as good, that Mahomes would look like Patrick Mahomes again. And you can say that's making excuses for him. I just think Kansas City, like the infrastructure is really not great right now, right? You got a young offensive line, no flux, you can't run the ball for shit.

You barely have any right receivers. And the offense, like, looks kind of not, right for the moment. It's just it's a lot of RPO's. And again, that's it's not fair to Andy Reid for me to say,

I don't know, you know, what are you doing? He is clearly having to call that because of the limitations of the personnel. But it's, it's, Mahomes is playing at a higher level of difficulty than all of these quarterbacks right now that makes it really hard to compare them. Yeah.

I think, I think that it's, a fair characterization. I think we were talking about this earlier this week about Josh Allen. Part of what makes it amazing for him is because you need to send somebody with a big number to take him down, he does not have to play on time. He can be back there however long it takes. Like I think teams have given up on that like sending the fifth guy because the fifth guy is not going to be big enough to take him down. So you send four, you hope you get pressure, you drop seven and he buys enough time that somebody's going to get open. I mean, him and Lamar, right? Like they do it in different ways, but the net effect is the same.

They're both unsackable and they both don't throw interceptions. Like, what do you do with that? What do you do with that? Yeah, it's, I know we, like last year, it kind of turned into World War III in the football world because of the MVP thing. But like it was, you know, and like we talked about this. I voted for Lamar. I just thought what he did last season was just insane. But right now, like that it's.

It's a hair. Like you could put him in either or like they're just. And, and, you know, yes, they're in better, they're both in much better situations than Mahomes. Both play behind good offensive lines. Both have a lot. I think the scheme is also really good for both of them. But don't get it twisted. Those, they are the suns of, you know, that the galaxy orbits around or whatever.

Like, the solar system. Like, you know, the reason guys are open. the reason teams are so afraid of the run. The reason teams play certain coverages is because of those two quarterbacks and what they can do with their legs. Right. Now, I want to switch gears a little bit since we're talking about all world quarterbacks with all the talent in the world.

Now we can talk about the San Francisco 49ers. I thought that was going to be Justin Fields. I was excited. Yeah, I think that both of us agree that Brock Purdy is a starting NFL quarterback, right? Like, I don't think we have to get too far to the high. He is a starting quarterback. It looks like he's going to be out for a while. He's got a bad shoulder.

And he's got that turf toe. Turf toe number one on the list along with the hip pointer. Things that hurt or the bone bruise. Things that hurt a lot more than they sound like when written on paper. Right. They called it a turf toe variant, which sounds like the worst thing. That sounds like he caught it rather than he got it. Right?

Like I knew I should have wore my mask. property now has had quite a few big injuries that's another thing well i mean he plays for the 49ers like apparently you need to have a lot in your what they call it hsa because you will be spending money on health care playing for that roster so he's out two to five weeks and you remember that time when the 49 is traded to move up in the draft oh yeah everybody thought that they had given up the world so they could go take mac jones because Chris Sims, who has Kyle Shanahan's initials tattooed on his body, said that if they made that move, they would take Mac Jones and everybody ate the cheese.

Well, guess who's going to start for the 49ers this week at long last? Matt Jones. You know what this is like for Kyle Shanahan? When you have, like, someone you got a crush on in, I don't know, like high school. And you've just idealized it for so long because nothing ever happened. and then finally you, let's like a high school reunion or maybe you're at home for Thanksgiving and you're at the bar and you see them

and there's just no way can live up to your expectations. I feel like that's going to be Kyle Shanahan realizing who Mack Jones really is and the limitations of what he can do with him this week. Like I, at this point, he has to have given up on that dream. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. Because think about this, think about this. We all had like Kurt Couss as the Kyle Shanahan dream quarterback, but let us not forget that when Kurt Cousins actually played for Kyle Shanahan, he stunk, right? Like, he held on to what it could be. Are you familiar with the comedian Robin Harris? No.

All right. Robin Harris, he died now almost 40 years ago, but Robin Harris, or more like 35, but anyway, Robin Harris had a routine that you probably couldn't really get away with, and I am going to paraphrase it. And he basically said, he don't like having a good-looking woman. He said he like having an ugly woman.

You can tell an ugly woman anything. He said, you walk in and tell an ugly woman, hey, I'm going to the moon. I'll be back in a couple of days. And this you just say to her, will you be careful? I feel like the Shanahan tree. That's how they are about quarterbacks.

They don't want no star at quarterback because they be on their own time. They be doing stuff, whatever it is. They want them an ugly quarterback that do whatever they say. That is what they see when they see the Mac Jones is. of the world and all these other guys. If you just do what I tell you, then everything will be okay, man.

These stars, these stunners, they got a mind of their own, you know what I'm saying? That's not what they're going for. And now old plain Jane Mc Jones is finally walking in. And Kyle Shadderhead is like, look, I don't know how exciting she is, but I bet dinner going to be ready all time. That's what he thinks is about to happen.

Sorry, we got to go on this tangent. When you see that, the equivalent of an age gap relationship, shall we say a looks gap relationship? Because my, I don't know what your algorithm's like. My algorithm shows me a lot of, I think it's because it's rage bait for people, a lot of age gaps, both ways. And then they show me the man with the surprising women.

Right. I see that. Maybe men see the reverse. I don't know. Do you see like the woman with the surprising man who? Yeah. Look, all I ever think when I see such a thing. That's what I'm going to ask you.

there is an explanation. Just neutral, like, could be anything. I don't know necessarily what that explanation might be. You don't think, man, she's... It's on the board. It's on the board. What you are saying is, yes, 100% on the board. Like, look, when this happens and there is a gap of sorts,

the way this goes is dude, and I don't know how this goes is women, because I think with women, when it's a gap, you just assume the dude is really nice. Or rich. Yeah. The gap that we wind up with here is, or when the gap is present, you see the two of them together or you meet them and they're together. And then she leaves. And then the dude hits you out of nowhere, man.

Dog, I'm telling you, boy, she cool as hell. Or, or, boy, I'm telling you, boy, wants that food ready, boy, we go eat. Like, they're going to, they're immediately like, I know, I know, I know, but they immediately go there. or my brain was going somewhere else. I was thinking, rejected, redacted. It's on the board. It's on the board. I'm just telling you what the fella says

because what else is on the board? You shouldn't tell your partners. Yeah. Yeah. But it is the assumption that everyone, well, there's a few, yeah. Yeah. Something special.

There's something special here. It's crazy that our mind never goes to to bring it back to Kyle Shanhan, that just must be his type, right? Like, I... Which is often the actual explanation. Yes. Usually, all right, we're just kidding.

When this happens, and it's someone you know, they got a history. Yes. It's not like 10, 10, 10, 10.4? Right. That's that and that is not the pattern. Right. For men and women.

Right. That is fair. There's not usually like an absurd deviation from that. But our brains don't go to like that just, that's just not how we process. The dinner analogy is probably the best one, yeah, for Shanahan. Because, yeah, they want someone, the Shanahan family. They want, you know, like the guy sitting in the mex suit pushing buttons, right? And they want someone to just execute the offense.

The problem, Matt Jones ain't that dude. Right. And, and he's going to. To his credit was actually kind of that dude. Yes. But he's also going to give you a lot of lip and a lot of sass. He is sassy. He is, that is, yeah, he's going to give you a lot of backtalk, right?

That is what happened in New England. And they were like, yo, get a load of this guy. Are you kidding me? I am not super optimistic also, Beau, because this, It would be one thing if this was the Niners All-Star team of a couple years ago where everybody's healthy. It's Christian McCaffrey. It's Brandon Ayuk. It's George Kittle, the offensive line.

It is a very diminished version of that that he's going to have to make this work with. They are playing the Saints this weekend. So, you know, that's going to help. But, yeah, I... Slop buster. Right. Saints are... Yeah, I'm not optimistic.

Also, yeah, I mean, since he actually just played the Niners... And watching that, I am not saying Trent Williams is watched. But this is like year 17. Yeah, he looks a little older out there. And he was kind of like the one thing holding this whole offensive line together. And so you start to get worried about that. Yeah. So as we go into advertisements, I will say to you, Ryan, you are welcome for Ryan said to me,

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All right. We are back with Mina Kimes. As you know, I am a day one fan of the Detroit Lions. I have enjoyed the ride up until this point. The last time we talked about the Lions that I expressed to you, my patience of Jerry Gough. You told me that I've definitely become a different person. And you may be correct because I was not feeling good on Sunday watching what happened there. My read on it is I didn't think the defense looked bad. But, but I was not feeling good on Sunday. Watching what happened there. My read on it is, I didn't think the defense looked bad. But, but, But I thought it really all came down that they're not getting any push on the inside. Guards and center are not doing anything. And if they don't get that push, I don't see what they're supposed to do. And tell me why I shouldn't be terrified. If I had to give you one source of comfort or I guess excuse, I think the Packers are those, like that team, right? So I think that's a Super Bowl team right there.

So, you know, we're talking a little bit about how kind of week one can sway things either way when you don't recognize like or when we don't really know who the best is at things. I think that they're going to have a much better time this week against Chicago against old friend Ben Johnson. That said, you're not wrong to be concerned because it, the whole operation was kind of discouraging. It wasn't just the interior offensive line. They got a new play caller who when they hired him, everybody was a little confused.

It wasn't, you know, John Morton. from Denver's kind of got an interesting resume, but it wasn't like quite, it didn't set the world on fire, let's just say that. And I think week one, that was, you didn't feel great watching that offense. You didn't get that feeling that used,

not just of like the creativity of the play calling, the combination of the creativity of the play calling and the physical domination up front, just totally gone and week one, which is not great. I wonder how many people were like me when they hired John Morton and thought they hired Johnny Morton,

former Detroit line wide receiver with the all-time classic quote Jay Leno can kiss my ass! Yeah, I'll be honest, the guy wasn't on my radar at all. And the other thing, Bo, I know I keep alluding to the Jets and nobody wants to hear me talk about the Jets, they got their past game coordinator, Tanner Engstrand, and that offense looked awesome, week one. So you're talking about a brain drain,

not only of Ben Johnson, but the past game coordinator, as well. Then you start to get a little bit worried, right? You're like, oh, maybe maybe they lost two guys. Right. Well, they lost Antoine and Randallel also, who went over with Ben Johnson. And I will say this, because I am okay with talking about the Jets because it'll make my life better living in the city if the Jets and or giants are good. It is definitely a significant quality of life improvement with the Knicks being good. I know. I saw your face. I understand. It would help, right? Justin Fields, who has to me the most damning problem that you can have, which is takes too long to throw the ball, did not take too long to throw the ball in this game.

Right? Like, that is the thing that people typically don't fix. He was not taking too long to throw the ball. Like, I was floored by how good he looked. This was like the biggest surprise of week one to me. And Fox and I talked about it. And he was better than Aaron Rogers in the game. And I know they lost.

And I feel like Rogers got all the. hype coming out of it. And Rogers looked good, too. I'm not going to say he didn't. But I thought Fields was exceptional. And maybe, I mean, he's had games. He had games in Chicago where he was doing more like crazy explosive stuff with his leg, 60 yard runs, that kind of thing. But this is the best he's looked quarterbacking to me since coming into the league. Like you said, the ball was coming out fast. He was accurate. He was thrown over the middle of the field, which he never does. And then he ran a lot, which was something we didn't really see in Pittsburgh for some reason. But the, the result. tons of designed runs and scrambles in this game.

The whole rushing attack looks really good. So yeah, I don't know, man. I think the Bill's defense kind of might be a little bit cheeks. So I'm not going to overplay it, but it was pretty encouraging and kind of shocking. That whole game was shocking. It was like so entertaining. It really was. Like it was a good game.

And I want to say this right fast, not that you mentioned it, about the Bill's defense. If the Bill's defense is bad, boy, the Bills will be a lot of fun to watch this year. Like we're talking track meets because Cincinnati should give us track meets except it looked like they was running all one leg against the Browns which shocked me because I mean I don't know how the Browns going to win no games this year.

Like there's no way. The Bengals, even if the plan is, you're just going to be really good on offense and terrible on defense, but you might be able to get nine and eight or 10 and seven out of that. The Browns, I don't see how they're supposed to get anything out of that.

And they almost won that game. They very easily could have. Yeah. If they had. Can you imagine like the Bengals discourse this week? I mean, the Bengals discourse this week should be like suspicious, but I think like a lot of people just didn't watch that game. Yeah, I mean, the Browns, the Saints, Titans, you know, like I think it's already like pretty obvious who the get right teams are.

And that was not a get right game at all for Cincinnati. I know I talked earlier, yeah, about the Chiefs and I'm being in the tier of the Bengals. They aren't even sniffing. that tier. I mean, they were supposed to come out. They play the preseason. Everybody's healthy. We signed all the receivers.

Offense was supposed to look. They were supposed to be, like you said, the 41 point team and just didn't look good at all to me. I, yeah, I was really underwhelmed by Cincinnati Weekline. Yeah, no, that's, that's, that's, that one's looking like bad news, like terrible news. But the other thing I haven't to ask you, though, about the Lions. And this is the part of that I think I overlooked, and I think a lot of us overlooked. because it was like, cool, Aidan Hutchinson is going to come back. But when they had Aiden Hutchinson, they had pass rush issues.

And I felt like in the game against Green Bay, they still had pass rush issues. That was, I thought, I thought the lion's defense would be much better, honestly, than they looked. The Green Bay offensive line is not that great. I mean, and they were stonewalling them. And you said it, like outside of Hutchinson, you don't really have anyone getting after the quarterback. The defensive tackles are hurt. But it was my whole theory about the lions going into this season was that the offensive line or the offense, pardon me, would take a step back, but that it would be mitigated by the defense being healthy and adding some talent. And that's

just not what I saw week one at all. But again, I think the Packers are a wagon. I really do. So if it happens again this week against Chicago and we know, talk about, the clip. Like Ben Johnson is going to, everything he's got is going to go into this game. Then you start to panic. You think that the Vikings got a dude

with McCarthy? Because look, they won 14 games to Sam Darnel. Yeah. And I don't care what anybody says. He's exactly who he's been. He, J.J. McCarthy was,

I mean, I don't know what you say about quarterback who was, you know, good for 20% of the game, right? Like, on one hand, that is, you have to say like, well, you know, he really struggled in the beginning, but then the other end of this is like his first start. So I'm not leaping to conclusions either way. I think what you saw with Minnesota, though, at the end, that is really encouraging is the run game looks really good at the end. And that's kind of when he settled down. And it's no coincidence because that was clearly their focus this off season.

Like, hey, we're going to fix the interior of the offensive line. They traded for Jordan Mason. I thought that that was a sneaky underrated trade. And we know that J.J. McCarrey, these kid who barely threw the ball in college, we want to give him a ground game. That's better than the one we've had the last couple of years. You got these defenses, they play constantly shell coverage because of Justin Jefferson and Addison what he's out there.

But they haven't really been able to punish them for doing so underneath. And this was a problem, by the way, with Sam Darnell earlier the end of the playoffs. Okay, cool. but, you know, for first half of this game didn't look that great, and then you saw that come alive, I think that's going to continue. And I think with McCarthy, too, like, you know, he doesn't have to be great

for this offense to work if that's happening. He just has to be competent, and he certainly looked like that at the end of the game. We'll see if it continues. Yeah, I thought that, I thought he made throws that you feel good about the young dude making, right? And to be not good at the whole game

and then maintain your composure at that point, I thought that I thought there was, room for optimism in that performance. But of course, the obvious counterpoint is they were playing the Bears. The way that like we had kind of framed this in our minds before we got here was the guy like who has more on the line with this. But I think my question really when it comes to the Bears, and we've talked about Caleb Williams a lot here though, is like what do you need to see before, you know, to keep everybody

quiet? Because I don't think he needs to be the best quarterback in the division. I think that there were some measures of progress in the last game. but I did not find that performance to be particularly encouraging. Like, I don't know. I'm not sure what exactly Johnson is going for. I'm not sure what they expect. But the clock is on him in a way that I'm not sure he recognizes.

But I've been doing this long enough to know. They come in for your neck, young man. Yeah. I have felt all offseason despair's offense is going to take a second to look right. Because, you know, yeah, they invest in the, talk about the Minnesota investing in the inside of the offensive line. I'm not a huge fan of DeAndre Swift as a back. The run game was such a big part of what Ben Johnson did in Detroit.

I wasn't entirely convinced that it was going to look as good immediately in Chicago. And it looked awful, dude. Like, they were really bad right. The football week one. So I felt like it's going to take a second for if you're going to have to, you know, if that's not working and you've got to all of all the offense and you're also accommodating Caleb's skill sets and he's learning a new system, it's going to take everybody's learning a new offense is going to take some time.

You know, it was, I'm kind of torn because I thought, like, week one, like, he had flashes of really good play, some really impressive throws. Then obviously some egregious misses and some conservatism. I also think the Vikings defense is really good again, maybe better this year. They signed Giovanni Javon Hargrave, Jonathan Allen, and Freakryg—Hardgrave was killing them up front on the inside. So this is another one where like, hey, like week two is going to be a big barometer for him. Can he look better than he did week one against what seems to be clearly an inferior defense?

And if not, yeah, it's going to be, I mean, the criticism's already loud, right? Because it was an island game and everybody watched. But I think this, I'm going to, I'm kind of waiting a couple weeks before I really start to panic. I think that makes sense. We wanted to ask you something about the Seahawks. Before we get to the Seahawks, though, we'll do something tangential off the Seahawks. did you tear up just a little bit watching gino i dare dealing dealing dealing for another team tear i mean i uh you know i was pretty loud about not approving of that trade so my desire

to be right trumps my that's been the interesting thing about doing this uh while i'm also still a fan of a team and all of that is like you realize you have all of you have all these like competing interests. Right. You know this. You've been in the game for a long time. Like when you're watching football and like, what screams louder for you in your brain and you're like little like the little part

of your brain when you're watching the game. Well, so I've been doing this for the most part without a lot of clear like fandom roots. Yeah. So I could just always go ego, right? Just just always on the I want to be right in this. Like in doing the kind of shows that I do, kind of coward ourselves about good for business to be wrong every now and then,

then I ain't trying to be Leia I'm okayo. You know what I'm saying? Like I don't, I'm trying to be, I'm trying to get this shit right. If I don't, I don't. But I'm trying to nail this every single time. And I'm not trying to hear no guff from the public. I don't work that.

I'm going for that generally. Now now with my lions, I want to be wrong about the things that I have seen. Yeah. And if I'm proven to be wrong, I will be incredibly thrilled. That's how I feel. about the Seahawks at the moment

because like I said I was really critical of the trade I was very pessimistic about the offense I'm not watching them not convert third downs against the Niners and being like yeah I was right it sucks right still the fan part of my brain is overcoming

the desire to be right but watching Gino dealing throwing bombs Brock Bowers downfield it's all good it's all it's all I've got too many shares of Gino's Smith's shock, stock, pardon me, right now

to watch a dip and not feel like, oh, you know. Yeah, no, your thing that's going to be interesting to watch it, like, running conflict with reality, especially now that it's happening on your own team,

is that you came on this show and referred to yourself and let me know if I get this incorrect as a sampethizer. I know. In reference to old buddy Sam Darry. But that was cool when he was the backup.

making $10 million. Yes. Contacts matter. Rolls matter. Yes. I will ride for, yes. I will say, I will say, like that, like, right now, like, I'm, you know, thinking about, I'm looking at Justin Fields stock right now.

It's priced at, you know, $5. And I'm thinking, maybe I'll ride this, you know, for until it gets to $10. And then I'm selling. And that's how I was with Sam Darnold, to be clear. To be clear. The argument was never, wow, this is a quarterback one. He's so underrated. It was, nah, this is an undervalued stock.

And that's, I'm looking at fields right now. And I'm thinking, I'm thinking the same. Okay. Okay. So when you talk about like the value of being correct, this is where I could be a little bit of a radical about this being correct. And Sam Donald is a great example. As we got farther and farther through last year,

and people were talking about him using. like not like anybody thought he was a real MVP candidate, but Dave was getting a little ahead of themselves. And then when he turned right back into Sam Donald at the end of the year, boy, I was right here to tell everybody that I hip it right all along. Like what's the wheels came off for him? I was rooting for it to catch on fire.

I don't know what that says about me, but I just, I just wait to see. I know what it says about you, Peter. That I was right. That's what it says about me. You love, you love, is it more graphic? to be right about an underrated player being good or an overrated player being bad.

Oh, it's the overrated player being bad. Because when you say a underrated player is good, people don't really get off in your grill about it in the same way as when you take the courageous stance to say, no, this is not as good as what you see it is. Right. Like it's the Hannibal Burris meme. Why are you booing me? I'm right. Right. You know, like, that's what it is.

I'm different. I, like, so I was a pretty big Jimmy Garapola critic for a long time. And maybe even the center of some minor controversies because of it. And when that train went off the tracks, I wasn't, like, celebrating. I mean, I did celebrate a little bit. I did it, like, the Jeffers thing. I did post, like, a couple gifts, like, you know. But I was, I didn't feel, I'll be straight up.

I didn't feel great about it in the same way. that I feel great when like a draft take ends up being correct. I can see that. I can see that. But like a positive one. So you got to this side of the business a little late. But you for this, for what I'm about to bring up,

I was forged in the trenches of T. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was. And so you have to remember, Tebow's rookie years 2010. 2011 is when Tebow Mania happens. I started doing Around the Horn in October of 2010. And this is the era where Woody Page is on Around the Horn just about every day and definitely every Monday. And he's coming off all these Broncos games. And I will know if you get them. Just wins. They played their first game against the dolphins. And it was a, oh God, he was so bad, and then they won at the end because all the games went like that, right?

And I remember I got on the call, and it was Bob Ryan, Tim Kailashaw, and Woody Page, and they all soft-pedaled it, and it got to me, and I said to them, what a player on the Dolphins told me after that game. This is the worst quarterback I've ever seen. Like, I couldn't believe that I was all alone in this, and gradually I would get some people, but then it was he just wins with a dollop of God is good. And so it just kept happening, and it kept happening. and it kept happening.

And I mean, you can go look at those clips of me on TV if they're available. I was not pretending to lose my mind. I was losing my shit every week. And then when they got their doors blown off at the end. And that was the worst part. They get their doors blown off into regular season. They don't nobody care. They end the regular season with three straight losses.

Nobody care. He got there, had him damn 300 yards against the Steelers. And I'm just like, oh, man, you got to be kidding me. And I never got a full season of him being cheats. You know what I'm saying? I never got that and I wanted it so bad, I deserved it. I deserved it. I think it's important to point out here, though, that the reason why you became such a

hater is not because of Tim Tebow himself, but because of your peers lying on it. You know what I mean? Like, that is the infuriating part and it makes you feel crazy. It's like climate change denial. You're just like, you're like, I feel insane. You feel like gaslit watching it. And, God, this came when the Shador Sanders, like, week three, the great Shador Sanders preseasoned week three controversy erupted online. It was really, like everybody's like, wow, this is crazy.

This has never happened in sports. And the Tebow thing was the first thing that came to my mind. Like when a story just goes thermonuclear and breaks contained to the point where people who don't actually watch the game are weighing in with strong opinions. like, you know. Tebow mania felt like the movie Major League, except what if the coach, like the coach wanted to win, obviously, right? But I contend they put Tebow in at the second half of the game against the Chargers. And I'm convinced that John Fox was like, well, he's going to be terrible and now finally shut these people up. But he got just enough done. And then he was stuck riding that ride for the rest of the year. And the only way they could get him out of

there. They had to go get Peyton Manning. They couldn't just go get like a credible starting quarterback. They had to leave and no doubt. Like John Elway, oh my God, I just can't imagine what it was like. The John Elway that wished he could have taken Cam Newton that year got stuck with Tim Tebow. What is the closest thing we've got right now in sports to where like a thing that makes you feel crazy? Like, is there anything? I don't think there's nothing like that. There's nothing like Tebow in football where it feels like everyone's being insane.

No, no, no, no. There's nothing there. Like, I'm pretty striding in where I stand on Jalen Hertz, but I understand the argument on the other side. You know what I mean? So like it doesn't, it doesn't make me insane that people think that he is better than I think he is. There's probably, there's got to be something in basketball that if I think about it,

like long and hard enough. that I could get to. Some of the, I'm gonna tread here with caution. Some of the Bo Nix takes flowing around this soft season. Okay, okay, so here's the thing, here's the thing, right? You are deeper in those weeds than I am.

Okay, yeah, see, I think that's too deep. If I were in those weeds with you, because I went on somebody's podcast and simply said that I am not a Bo Nix believer and I, they came for me about that, right? Like if I did NFL all day, every day, yes, I would be exactly right there where you are on that one. Every year, there's a quarterback that just breaks everybody's brains. Where like the conversation around the quarterback, it's always a quarterback, stops being normal.

Tebow is the most extreme version of that of the last like 20 years, I would argue. Probably ever, to be honest. Yes. But I felt Jimmy G. was that for me for, for, sure for like two years with Sam's Skao where I felt crazy the way people were talking about it. Trubisky was like this.

Daniel Jones was like that you can all there's always one where there's such a disparity between how fans and people who do like box score watching talk about the guy versus what is actually happening on the field. That's it's very, it's too early say who that guy is. Knicks, it feels like, felt to me like this summer, it was kind of becoming that quarterback. We'll see how that plays out, though.

Jimmy Garapolo was a divided, I don't know the right word, but like he was not good for my high noon marriage. You know what I mean? Like it was driving me crazy in a way that it was driving you crazy. And I think Pablo was just enamored by the fact that, you know, what was he like all swears? Waddy and everything and the ladies love him. So many people like loved him. Yeah, a wedge. Ryan said he has. He was a wedge. He put it as a wedge in our relationship. And people really did love him. They had a whole playoff game when they ain't throw the ball one time in the second half. And I was like, guys, I'm sorry. That is not simply a function of we're really good at running the ball. That's not what that means.

The coach is telling you, I got a bum out here. Tua was this for, for two years. Oh, that's right. The Tijuana people. Toa, every year, I'm telling you, Jimmy Garapolo passed that torch to Tua. Who is Tua gonna pass it to? Yeah, because I think, I think we feel pretty settled right now on the Tua thing.

It's, when the Tua thing was happening to, and I got like, I just remember thinking, like, I just went through this with, I can't do this again where I'm fighting these people. Yeah, I don't know who it is yet. candidates, like I said, there's a few.

There's a few. Yeah, we got to start looking at young guys, right? We got to start scouting the next classes of these of these dudes. Like, hey, man, Baker Mayfield, fascinating career arc that Justin Fields is hoping to emulate, right? Except Baker Mayfield, at least, there was a time where we thought Baker Mayfield was good. And I don't think we were always holding out hope on Justin Fields, right? Like, we didn't get there. Baker Mayfield now is, I think one of the mistakes that we make in talking about quarterbacks is in our verbiage.

and they're not everybody has to be a franchise quarterback. Some people are starting quarterbacks. Yeah. And Baker Mayfield appears to be a very good starting quarterback. And that is not an insult because starting quarterbacks are hard to find. But Josh Allen is a franchise quarterback. Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes, those are starting quarterbacks. Joe Burrow looks to be a franchise.

I mean, they're all franchise quarterbacks. Joe Burrow appears to be a franchise quarterback. Some guys are starting quarterbacks. And that's okay, right? He's a very good starting quarterback. And, I mean, the Falcons lost that game because Falcons lose games, but they still good job winning, I guess. He didn't look, they struggled.

I mean, he had made a couple of press of throws. But yeah, I think your diagnosis is correct. It's the tier that I would, I would put him in. I think it's usually a younger guy is the brainbreaker. Yeah. Because usually fans, attach themselves to like a young, usually it's a guy on a rookie contract.

So, yeah, I, you know, scouting a few out there. But yeah, I, Broncos week on, did you watch any of that? I did. I did. I did. Hey, man, by the way, the brain breaker very soon will very clearly be arch. I wonder though if they're getting.

Getting that out of the way now. Some team is going to get him, though, and then there will be an army of fans who pick it up anew. Does he have, wait, can I ask you that, though? Okay, so I'm not super tapped into college football internet. I just watched the games. I actually felt I didn't,

but it seemed like he doesn't have that strident hive. If anything, I actually felt like he had a lot more haters. than I expected to come out of the woodwork? Well, I mean, one, he plays for Texas. And I don't think any school has more other schools that hate them than Texas does. And that's not a function of Texas, like longstanding greatness. It's about geography. But like, we start there, right?

So he's playing for a longstanding underachieving program that a lot of people dislike. And the not beating out Quinn Ewer's thing is also a discussion that then comes up. But the hype machine behind him felt so artificial coming into this year. and the things I heard people say on television. I'm like, you don't believe this. This isn't possible that you believe this. And it did him no favors. I ended up feeling bad for the guy.

I, I, like, yeah, I just feel like he was put in a really shitty situation because of that, because of what you're describing. But I also felt like he didn't have, I don't know, like when we're talking about the quarterback who breaks people's brains, they have to have a hive, right? That is true. They got to have a hive. I didn't, there's no arching on. Right.

Fair, fair. But when he gets to the league, it'll be a little bit different. Yeah, right. NFL teams will just whatever they just project. Quarterbacks are canvases on which people paint their psychosis. Well, also because whatever team he winds up with is not going to have another option that perhaps you can want. Like generally speaking, a college football program may not have the guy ready to start right now, but you ain't just only going to have one. You know what I mean? Like, you're probably going to have somebody else.

And though, though, once you get to the league, like the Broncos need Bow Nix to be that guy. If he's not that guy, you're kind of, you kind of fucked up for like two more years. Yes, that is such a good point of the difference between college football and the NFL, right? Because if NFL or the college football, it's like, oh, fans will kind of by the end be like, all right, move it on, who's next? Who's using the transfer portal? You're right.

With college football, so, or with the NFL, pardon me, a lot of the craziness around these quarterbacks that we're talking about, the polarizing guys, is driven by the fact that the teams need him to be good. It's why like, you know, a guy like Fields and Darnold or whatever, Gino in Vegas, I don't think those fan bases will ever do that because they don't feel like that level of financial investment. It's like, okay, we can move on if he's not that good. So you're right. It is, there's like a sunk cost thing that's like drives it to.

Fields is an interesting example because I did feel that there was a measure of this when he was with Chicago. And what happened with him in Chicago, people need to realize that the city of Chicago, is home territory for two sets of things. One of them is Chicago professional sports. The other is the Big Ten. And so what that means is if you live in Chicago and you're a Big Ten fan, he either play for Ohio State or he destroyed you.

Right. So you come in with that optimism. And then he's the first hope that you have. And then the moment you realize he looked like the rest of the bums that you've seen for the rest of the time, you go from there. So the Fields did have the,

he was breaking for the exact reasons you just, They're very crazy defensive of him when he struggled early on. Yes. Yeah, such a good point about the big, yeah, the college football fans. Yeah, so the factors that have to be in place for the court, the put a trademark, the quarterback who breaks people's brains. It's got to be young guy. It's got to be, it's an NFL.

They have to have investment, whether he was at high draft pick or there's a lot of money behind it. One of those two things have to be the case. It's, yeah. I guess Tebow doesn't, but that would. Um, they got to be winning. Yes. But then not because of him.

Yes. Um, then and there has, yeah, I think those are the main things. Well, hold on. You know who used to be one of those? Josh Allen. Yeah. And then he just became actually who they thought he was. He assumed the role to which he had been cast. But the first three years, and he was. breaking our brains.

Yeah. Well, they were breaking our brains. Their brains were broken and then it became contagious and it broke our brains because we was fighting, but we we gave up. I took the L, I took the L early. Never looked back. Never looked back now. I'm just enjoying the ride.

The best L, the best L I've ever taken. Yeah, the best thing, though, I just feel like it's important for us to always make sure that people know that we weren't there at first because I don't want to act like, you know, I've been there with you. He wasn't there at first either. No, he wasn't. I always found the person most honest about Josh Allen and at every turn it was Josh Allen

and that's part of why I actually find it so endearing now. Yeah. Yeah, I totally. I, has there ever been a quarterback who you thought about taking the L but then you were like, hold strong, hold strong, you know, hold, hold,

like don't, don't, you know, like, and then eventually history proved you right. Sam Dardle, 2024. I got to think about that though. Two and not briefly broke me. Yeah. It wasn't,

I didn't say like, oh, he is, you're right, you're right? He's better than Herbert. Because that was always about him and Herbert, right?

That was, I mean, there were people who were really pounding the two was better than Herbert because it was the same draft and all that. And I never did that. But there were moments where I think I was more, or I just kind of like, I didn't take the L per se,

but I rolled over a little bit in retrospect. Oh, Carson Wentz. That's a good one. Carson Wentz. He made it tricky and then it turned out to be what it was. I imagine somebody's still holding out about Kyle and Murray. He just keep riding along at that ambiguous purgatory of bustardom level. Somebody's going to be there with Trevor Lawrence.

I think that offense is actually going to be pretty good, though. watching them. Yeah. Next time you're on, we'll have to talk. It'll be another stage of the Travis Hunter experiment, because I don't, I don't know what anybody's doing over there. Just, let's just play one.

Just whatever. I just don't. I just, they try to, they try to reinvent a wheel. That's, that's, you and I are on the same page. Deonté, you know, Deonté, have you ever had him on?

He's great. I haven't had them all. Good to know. He had a comp that kind of briefly, like, broke my brain a little bit where he was watching Caleb and said, Kayla has a lot of Trevor Lawrence in him. And that made me kind of sit still for a second.

And with that thought in my head and think about it, I'd never thought about those two quarterbacks. But it definitely struck a chord with me. I think that is a good time for me to tell you guys. That is Minacom. You can check her out on the MinaCom show, featuring Lenny. But ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us here on the right time. We do this many times every week.

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