The Right Time with Bomani Jones - Pacers Lead Thunder 2-1, Knicks' Next Coach, Kevin Durant's Future | 6.13

Episode Date: June 13, 2025

On today’s episode, ESPN & MSG basketball analyst Monica McNutt joins Bomani Jones to discuss Game 3 of the NBA Finals and the New York Knicks search for a head coach. The show starts with Bo and Monica agreeing that while the Pacers may not be better than the Thunder, they can certainly win the NBA title now that they're up 2-1 (1:51). They continue to praise the Pacers by saying how they're putting the great OKC defense in shambles (5:50) and when the stakes are high they never look scared in the moment (11:54). After the break, Bo and Monica agree it was time to move on from Tom Thibodeau as coach of the Knicks and why he got everything he could out of their current roster (31:00). Bo still predicts Jason Kidd will end up as head coach (32:03) and Monica believes the team needs to explore the availability of Kevin Durant (40:21). They round out the show by saying that the organization is left in a great spot but there is now pressure to win in New York. (51:05) . . . Subscribe to Supercast for Ad-Free Episodes: https://righttime.supercast.com/ Subscribe to The Right Time with Bomani Jones on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts and follow the show on Instagram, Twitter, and Tik Tok for all the best moments from the show. Download Full Podcast Here: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6N7fDvgNz2EPDIOm49aj7M?si=FCb5EzTyTYuIy9-fWs4rQA&nd=1&utm_source=hoobe&utm_medium=social Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-right-time-with-bomani-jones/id982639043?utm_source=hoobe&utm_medium=social Follow The Right Time with Bomani Jones on Social Media: http://lnk.to/therighttime Support the Show: Discover faster, more reliable search with Perplexity today. Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at perplexity.com! https://pplx.ai/bomani-jones Download the DraftKings Pick Six app NOW and use code BOMANI. Better payouts. Bigger wins. Only with Pick6 from DraftKings. The Crown is yours. Download Cash App Today: https://capl.onelink.me/vFut/icdnkphp #CashAppPod Go to zbiotics.com/BOMANI to learn more and get 15% off your first order when you use BOMANI at checkout. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the right time. A Wave Original presented by perplexity. My name is Bo Monty Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater.

It is Monica Meknut Fridays. Monica, what's going on? Bo, I love that line. If you don't give us five stars, I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. It's one of my favorite podcast lines of all time. I appreciate that. It is real, too, by the way. Like if you make the decision to leave a rating, give me one or give me five, right?

Like, I might believe it if you give me one. If it's two or three, I might need just to ask you some questions, see where you're coming from. But if you go with four, you know you just be in a jerk. I love it. It is real people that take time to rate pods and comment, whether they like or not. I appreciate that. So, yeah, I'm with you. I appreciate it.

We got a lot of basketball to talk about. Monica, where it's with the Knicks. You know, we'll talk about some of that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't help it. I didn't do it on purpose, man. It just naturally came out of my chest. But in the meantime, we got the NBA finals.

Friday night we have got game four. The Pacers are up to one. Watching game three, a mutual friend of ours sent me a text early in that game from the arena. That's saying game over, right? And this was an Oklahoma City, ran off early and got to that lead. The Pacers, I don't really understand. understand how it is, that it doesn't, like, they have these lulls early, but it never feels like a lull late. Like, it just feels like they never stopped trying. They never give it up.

They got back control of this game. Like, it didn't take that long into the second half, but it's still, I'm not walking away from this feeling like they're the better team, but I am walking away from this feeling like they can win it. Bo, so obviously I rolled through the six game series with the Knicks. Lots of FaceTime with the Pacers. We're asked to make our picks at ESPN. and I'm now switching gears to my national roles, right? And I literally, I remember being like, don't be prisoner at a moment. The Knicks did XYZ. Like, they could have done XYZ differently.

Don't be prisoner at a moment. Like, OK, C's still a better team. Like, your personal basketball philosophy mind is the team that can defend. That's who you take. I was like, okay, okay, C. But I go six in my picks, OKC and six. And after game one, I'm like, you lived it. Like, you saw how good this team was and still hedged, right?

I'm with you. I still think OKC comes out of this. But baby, if we get to a game seven and it's a two-possession ballgame with two minutes to go between the heroics, if you will, of Tyrese Halliburton and the X's and O's of Rick Carlisle, like I kept coming into the series saying, I think this coaching matchup is going to be so intriguing,

captivating could be the X factor down the stretch. Like, there's a real world where the Pacers take this. And it would not align with everything we watched about the Thunder this year. but then again, like, you have to respect what they've done. And I know I really grappled with, especially through the Knicks series, like, all right, cool, their defense has improved from last year. I'll give you that. But really, in my mind, it was like Nimhart, Neath Smith.

And then it's kind of hit or miss in terms of how guys are playing on any given day. But as a collective, they are just continuing to find their way and get better through the series and through the postseason, which is fascinating. I think, and I've said on this show, that I think Seacum is an underrated factor. in this and that the second best player is a dude that has a championship and was a real live contributor to that championship. The dude that's made a couple of all NBA teams. Like I think he did not get as good as I thought he would six years ago when we just kind of all got introduced to him in the NBA finals. But it's still having that second guy because I look at Oklahoma City and I see people are coming for Chet at this point. And you're right. Chet

is not and not you, the big you. Chet's not that guy right now, but Chet's 23 years old. Like, this team in a lot of ways is actually way ahead of schedule. But you got to have somebody on both sides that you really feel like you can count on. And that's where Oklahoma City comes up short, even to a degree with Shea, not because Shea hasn't been great, but just because we haven't seen him in this place. I mean, Wednesday, yeah, six turnovers. Like six turnovers, you can't reason that away for a dude in his position. It's so funny to call that out because I agree with you, right?

we saw this in the what do we call it the NBA Cup right no however long ago that was but Milwaukee took Shay away and nobody else stepped up do I think the thunder improves since then sure but what we have critiqued the Pacers for I actually think has become their X factor in this series in that yes when Tyrese Halliburton is playing well they look like a different team but if he's not they're so used to getting it from whoever like they're just going to find the place where they can plug the hole so to speak and whether that looks like Ben Mathrim going on for 27 or Obie Topping hitting four threes like they're like cool our weapon is our depth and it can be anybody's night on any given night and that is it's one thing to say it it's another

thing to watch it in action in the finals like not just through a good run in the regular season but in the finals and it has been the formula that has allowed them to stay attached through every series and then get a clutch basket from Tyrese Halliburton so look look I want to believe and I continue to believe and sorry I keep looking off because this dog is out lucky you're about to go back in your place. You tried it. You're failing. Yeah, lay down.

I want to believe that OKC has graduated. But I do think, and this is where I said to essay the other day, I was like, I still think we don't give it, we're not giving Indiana the appropriate pressure. Whether you pick OKC or not, they deserve a level of credit because they are putting the best defense we've seen in decades in a jam. And like, whether you buy it or not or think they're just running up and down the floor in transition, like, it has been effective. Like, they're shooting plus 40% from the three-point line

in these postseason and they're like 14 and 0 when they do that. Like, I just, maybe because it looks a little goofy on the outside, but I still think we haven't given them to do that they deserve. Okay. I have to take a quick pause and tell the audience something that just happened that is fascinating, okay? I live in New York City. Monica lives in New York City. We live fairly close to each other, not neighbors, but we live pretty close to each other, right? I heard the siren in the background of your shot. And then after it went away in your shot, I hear it out my window as the siren has gone from over by your crib to now being closer to my crib. That is New York City living for you right there. A hundred percent. Every time I talk to my friends at home, they're like,

it's so loud. I'm like, it's New York. It'll drop. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's not a big deal, man. It just goes in, it's kind of, it really gets to the place where, like, when you shoot a documentary or something like that, and they take the room, the room sound or the room toe, that's what they call it. And they do that first and then they baseline everything off of that. There's a room toe, right? Like, it has some sirens. And every nine and then somebody talking real loud on the phone and you can hear it on the 10th floor, wherever you live. That's just kind of what it is. But in line with what you were saying about the Pacers, I had a conference. comparison that I'm going to say it at the end. I'm going to say why the comparison doesn't fully fit and then I'm going to make it anyway, right? One thing I do love is like a dude like Mathrim, for example. Nimhart is another one, the knee Smith dude, all of them. They are all capable of coming up really big. Like even Miles Turner to a lesser degree, right? They're all capable of coming up really big and all fully aware that they are capable of doing this. I don't ever, feel like those cats over extend themselves, right? Or get, you know, get a little too much dip

on their chip. But when they realize they got it, they do it. Right. And I could be wrong. You know, people who have watched them more through the year could tell me all the times that those other dudes have gone crazy. But like Matthew are coming up and getting what was the 27 and 22 minutes. 27. Yeah. Right. Like he knows he could do that. But when it's not cracking for him, I don't feel like they're out there acting ridiculous. Does that make sense? I agree. I think. they know their roles. Hold on one second, Bo. Hey, come in. Bo, we're plant people. You should see the leaf on my bird of paradise that he has decided is his like toy. Oh, I just got a new bird of paradise. I'm glad to hear that because I know we had a, we had a run with the other one.

You told me about that. Yeah, yeah, the other one, the other one rest in peace. But I had to, I had to get a new situation going and it's all good. You'll have to come check it out. Yeah, we love a bird of paradise. To your point, though. No, go ahead. No, no, no, no. You got it. my bad, I didn't know he got to the end. Those guys, T.J. McConnell, for example, has, like, put the nail in the coffin, so to speak, to the Knicks in a couple of times in both of these series from last year and this one, right? But he's a guy that barely made it into the league, right? Like, there's just this collective, like, desire to win. And I think it's funny because I think we give OKC a ton of credit for their AAU, like chemistry and how much they love each other.

when Miles Turner was talking about those guys after they won the Eastern Conference finals, I'm like, they got the same thing going on. It's just not been organized in the same way. And it has not been as much of a conversation because they weren't, frankly, weren't on TV as much as the Thunder. So I'm with you. Like, that ultimately is what you want out of a team. And I think the Pacers and the Thunder to a degree are counterculture, but more so the Pacers because the Thunder have the MVP.

They're so counterculture to a star centerpiece, right? Like we're debating whether Tyrese Halliburton is or isn't a star. Like, come on now. Yeah, McConnell Ladova, by the way, is a two wins away. Yeah, yeah. I wrote it out as McConnell Lovadova, but that's too many syllables for talking. I got it. So, like, McConnell Ladova, bang, bang, breen, love him.

So McConnell Ladova, just like he loved him some Della Doba. Like, that's how I realized it, but they two wins away. But them raising his jersey up to the Raptors there, boy. There ain't no way in the world if they win no chance. the championship. McConnell Ladova need to turn down free agent money from any other place. He'll be doing the, he'll be doing the, he'll be doing the, he'll be the color man on the broadcast, you know what I'm saying? Sit right next to Reggie.

That's right. That's right. Or he maybe starts selling cars if that's what he's trying to do. Or he might be able to go, he might be the player coach. He played his whole thing, right. And bless him, by the way, because that man was a process sixer when the sixers were intentionally looking for bums. And he's the only guy. He, like Christian Wood was there for a low while, but McConnell stuck through the whole thing and was the only one that really parlayed a career out of it. But the comparison that I was going to make, and I'm going to be the old dude for a second. Come on, let's go. Teach me. It reminds me a bit like the 94 Rockets with Elijah Watt. And like, you have to keep in mind about the 94 Rockets. Their second best player

was Otis Thorpe. Like, the third best player was probably Kenny Smith, right? Mario Ellie is a rookie Sam Cassell, Vernon Maxwell. these were the guys that Akim Elijah won took to a championship. Okay. But there was never a shot. Oh, Robert Ori. I forgot because they tried to trade them that year and they brought him back. But it's still

year two, Robert Ori. Those dudes were ready for every shot when the shot came. Like none of them were really a dude that could go out there and get you the 27 like we're talking about. But like you have Mario O'Reilly on your team, Mario Ellie is 100% fearless. If the shot comes, I got it. That team did not have a single guy who's scared. And the Pacers look like they don't have anybody who scares. Even when they're

looking ridiculous in the first half and just let in Oklahoma City take the ball from them left and right and get and falling behind, it never feels to me like they're scared. Maybe a little lack of focus, but it never seems to me like they're scared. The Thunder have moments where it feels like, hey, man, some of these guys look a little shaky right now. And I agree with that. And that's why I think Dagnol and Carlisle and Carlisle. Like if we get to a game seven, advantage Pacers, because of because of Carlisle in my mind. Because I agree. The thunder, you can feel them get tight. And again, lived this with the Knicks. Something about fourth quarter's last four minutes, I don't know if it's because the patients did it through

two series to get to the Knicks, but you could feel it. Like they drain the air if they're on the road. You feel their confidence growing. The other team inevitably starts to get tight. Like it is such a phenomenon. Like they are fine hanging in games, whatever. Fourth quarter, or we got a shot. It's almost like, they're like, all right, back. We got you exactly where you want them, which is crazy to say. Because is that sustainable? They've done it now to get to the final. So yes, is it? I guess.

Kind of maybe. I can't remember I thought about it on this show. But during one of these games, they showed a clip of Halliburton making the big bounce shot in game one, right? And it was from an angle I hadn't seen, and it was from the reverse angle. So you, you know, you see Halliburton zero. And he's going forward. You know, he goes, he gets the ball.

he takes that jump back. By the way, terrible shot. You'll never convince me it was not a terrible shot. This was a ridiculous, preposterous thing to do given where he was. He had a much, especially when it ended up being a two. What a ridiculous shot. But he took the shot and even as it bounced on the rim, he was doing that back pedal like he had never considered the possibility that it was not going in. I was like, yo, man, the streets may say you are her, but you were kicking it completely opposite of this. Mm-hmm. It is. It is. And Bo, like for jump shot purists, folks that love a good, the mechanics of a jump shot, not only has it been effective, it continues to be ugly.

Like, it is like, oh, it's the most frustrating thing if you're an opponent. And if you are invested and rooted for the Pacers, like, you're probably like, whatever, overrate that. Yes. So for people who don't know, Monica played at Georgetown, Monica's a shooter. I done seen the clips. You know what I'm saying? you as actual basketball player,

there can't be anything more frustrating than guard a herky jerky player who does those things, right? Like, I used to say this about Dwayne Wade, and Dway Wade's game was not herky jerky in this same way. But Dwayne, I say he was walking jacks. Like he was a dude playing spades. You'd be like, yo, how did you get that jack to walk across the table? This doesn't make any sense.

And then next thing, you know, he'd drop it at a ace. down and you're like, why'd you walk that jack if you could play it at ace? I feel like Halliburton walks, jacks left and right. Like, how did you make that book with what you just did? We've been talking about Lou Dort in the Dorcher

chamber and he's been fantastic. Or even this entire O.K.D. even is at large. And it's offbeat. My favorite comp has been the Steve Urquil clips on Instagram. Because it's not an insaw. He was Stefan in that episode, right? He was cooking.

No, no, he was Steve. He was Steve. Steve was hooping. He was hooping. And so it's sort of offbeat. It's not, air quotes, fundamentally sound, but it's effective. Like, I can remember Tyrese's draft class because the Knicks took Obie. He was still on the board.

And we were talking about his jump shot. And it was a debate of whether or not he just tinker with it. And folks are like, at this point in his career, you don't change it because it's been effective. And changing a shot is not something that you do in a season anyway. That's an off-season project. So I just, in a world where we, the buzzword is like authentic, right? Whether you like it or love it, the Pacers have done it their way and it has been authentic. Never changed the jump shot.

And I feel like if there's any franchise that should never change the jump shot, it's the Indiana Pacers where Reggie Miller sitting right there with whatever. Like, there has never been a guy that we've considered a pure shooter when that dope looks stepped all, step doll. Step doll. but apparently it's 100%. Oh, man. If the Pacers lose in seven, I just wonder how this will go down in our history books.

Do we ever remember? I guess sometimes we remember the losers, but not if it was compelling. Yeah, I mean, if they lose in seven, hmm, hmm. That's it. How we view both of these teams in the end? Because I think we have to now change the way that we view champions.

It's been a last year Celtics are maybe the exception. But since the 2018 Warriors, we didn't really have that many champions, if we've had any champions that we truly look at as great teams, right? So to add to that, though, right? Nobody has said, are the places opening up a window? Right. But should we be? Like, I don't know.

I'm with you. Like, I think we both believe Oklahoma City is squarely in a window, right? But even they are a guy short. Like I think win or lose, whoever both teams come out of this finals to me as looking around and being like, okay, we still need one more guy. Now, Oklahoma City's in a position where they can get eight more guys because they have all the assets and all the young people.

But it still feels like they, maybe Chet becomes that guy, right? Maybe Jalen Williams becomes that guy, but they still feel one guy short. It's funny. I'm in, I'm team Jalen Williams. continues to evolve. I think that kid is really good. But then you look the same thing for the patience, right? Like, are they one guy or do they have enough people and somebody else evolves? Because Matherin, art wasn't available last postseason.

He's, he has a tendency to be a tibed, a smidge, Dremont asks sometimes in terms of getting involved with questionable files. But I don't think he's obviously not on his level, but can he be that consistent? Because for a while he was not in the rotation. Like he wasn't in the rotation for the first part of the, of the Knicks series. Right. I don't know. I feel like the, again, are we not giving the Pacers the respect they deserve, right? Right.

I mean, all they did was make the NBA finals. Literally, exactly. Hold on. The year after making the conference finals were even without Halliburton, they gave Boston some games. Yeah. I just, if you, I think if we were not watching this finals, and you talk to any NBA fan, any exact, and you said,

I'm going to give you a team that legitimately goes 10 deep is top, I don't have it in front of me, but probably top five in scoring. Defense, we'll say the defense is middle of the pack and you've got one of the most clutch players in the postseason. How long you think you got a window? Right. Like you'd be like, you'd give me three years and those guys are all, what is how is 26? Right. He's young, Mathrims, young. Nimhart's not old.

Miles Turner, who, by the way, went from perpetual trade blois. to just being a flat out steal for them at like $17 million. You're right. Maybe we need to give them some more credit. And speaking of giving somebody a little bit more credit. Oh, and don't forget, the East stinks next year. Not so much stinks. That's what I'm saying.

We have not talked about them as a dynasty, but go ahead. Yes, we're going to put a pin in that point for when we get to the other side. But I want to do something right quick. Do you know how old Reggie Miller is? Reggie Miller, I just did an event with his sister at Final Four, and I feel like her age came up, and I know she's older than him. because I was like, you are not that old, Cheryl. Right.

Reggie Miller is 57. He turns 60 in August. Oh. He turned 60 in August. And the reason I bring that up, a couple of years. Number one, dude does not look 60 years old, right? Like, way to make it happen. But number two, I turn 45 two days after he turned 60, okay?

You look great, though. I appreciate that. But I also recognize where I am. in this and the worst thing I could do is try too hard. You understand what I'm saying? I am comfortable with where I stand in the game and I'm better off kicking it with very simple, low effort attempts at coup, right?

Like I got to go with my natural cool. Yes, I am bringing this up because Reggie Miller pulled up to the game and a Mark Jackson throwback with a hoodie and the jersey was tucked into the front of his jeans. and then his pants, I think, was a little bit baggy, and the internet was killing him. You know what I'm saying? What he needed to do, what he needed to do was take a look right next to him

was the big old, keeping it simple, but he had him a bag. Like that was his piece of fashion was he had him a bag where he keeps his license or perhaps his prescriptions sitting there with a beautiful lady right next to him. You understand what I'm saying? But I saw Reggie in that fit, and I'm like, brother, you don't have to try. you're in the Hall of Fame. A simple, well-fitting tea will do the job

for you under these circumstances. I literally was like, well, at least you let his son wear the wristband. Didn't go full bore. Yeah, I saw that fit. But you know what? And you know what? Let me ask you this, Beau. Because while there is certainly an age thing,

there's also a slim man thing. And because Reggie is thin, I'm not thin, Svel, is probably better work because he's an athlete. No, he probably should have just kept it simple. I don't know where I was trying to go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no, no. Like I, I as a thin man, because the thing about basketball players that look skinny that people don't really understand, like, even somebody like Chet, like if, great example, if you've ever stood next to Kevin Durant, skinny is not really an appropriate term, right? He is slim, but even in college, he's wide, wide across the top, right? Reggie Miller's

another dude like that where you get around him and you're like you you don't feel like oh wow this is the skinniest guy in the world right that dude kind of wide the bottom line is you're not really going to be able to pull off cool at that age by trying to get fresh with it you're going pull off cool with simplicity I think he needed to go with simple I do appreciate the jackson ode and I didn't realize that was Mark Jackson's jersey when I thought I was like he got on his own jersey that's annoying so I get him to Jackson Jersey we're going to We're going to talk about Mark Jackson coming on the other side because the Nix, L-O-L.

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the refunds you your money, no questions asked. Remember to head to Zbiotics.com slash Beaumani and use the code Beaumani at checkout for 15% off. All right, we are back with Monica McNutt. Monica, you do broadcast and work for the New York Knicks. We have talked a bit about their coaching situation. I want to start with first question for you. as somebody who has been around this team.

Did you think it was possible that they would make a coaching change at the end of game six? Yes. In fact, my terrific radio partner, Tyler Murray and I, we had, honestly, we had just kind of been pontificated.

I remember we were at lunch prior to that series. It wasn't something that you were stuck on, but you just kind of watch as things are involving and you're like, hmm, I just wonder. Like, I just wonder, what all of this means for tips. And I know that's kind of weird because you come off of beating the Celtics,

but you just, you just, you felt like you were, there was reason to wonder potentially. And I know people think that this is like a Pacer's thing because that was obviously the most visible in the last series. But it's, my observation from where I sit,

it's bigger than that series. So it didn't, at least from the comfortable distance that many of us were at, it didn't feel like the noise was around it, right? Like we had, before they had athletic, James Edwards and Fred Katz, for example, had their report that everybody expected that Dibito will come back. And then after exit meetings, no, that was not the case. I think Vinny Goodwill reported that the owner came in and just like, no, this was a,

change. Now, I'm not in line with the people who are just like, oh, my God, I can't believe it. People get fired all the time. You can rationalize firing anybody if you so decide, right? This is this is just how it goes. The question now for them is, who is the coach that you go higher? And they seem to be dirty macking all over the place. Now, perhaps the macken isn't dirty because they doing it, they doing it to play away.

They're like, hey, a, a, hey, a little buddy, let me holler at you for a second. Let me holl at you, let me holl at them for a second, man. I just want to let you know before we ain't got no misunderstandings. Oh, I can't. All right, cool. And then they seem to be backing away. But I can't recall a coaching search where the first five names that have come out already jobs.

Yes, Bo. That is correct. Look, this is where this gets interesting. And I, again, I'm under the impression

that this is all par for the course. It does not mean that all of those guys are sincerely out. Because the flip side of that coin is I don't think they just cold reach out

to dudes that are completely happy. Like, there was some mutual interest in these conversations. Like, come on now. You know what I'm saying?

Like, to say with your example, oh boy, wait or like ask what you on this corner. Like, there's a little bit of a mutual conversation there. And Leon Rose is someone who has been in this space and West, for that matter.

They've both been in this space. They have relationships. Like, I don't think these are just pot shots in the dark. Now, being denied, okay, cool, cool. Part for the course. I don't necessarily believe that that's the end of it. I will say, though, that a big thing as this team moves forward, it's, yes, you can boil it down to say a more creative offense.

But I think in today's NBA, you see it all the time. To your point about coaches getting fired, even if you look at Mike Malone, right? Like somebody that got fired at headhead spinning this year with two weeks after going a regular season, folks that love him, respect him, could acknowledge that you wear people down. Like, you eventually grade on people. And I think when you look at Tibzes stops, he has a similar sort of reputation. I give him a ton of credit and a ton of respect. I think he got everything that he could out of this roster.

But as you look at the identity of this team this year, they won't go turn into a defensive juggernaut next season. you need somebody that's going to come in and be able to be creative and innovative and collaborate with these guys in a way that gets this offense going at a next level. Like for me, yes, you could be frustrated with Indiana in terms of defense. But a tiger don't get new stripes. The offense is what fell apart while you were trying to get through the Eastern Conference finals because it was too rigid.

You know, as we go through these guys that they've tried to get, it is an interesting sort of sliding scale, right? Ime Udoca. come on man right they they they they they just fine down there chris fetch come on man what would you what you're thinking quincener huh i wouldn't assume that everything was all good coaching trey young would you i would not assume that that that doesn't look like fun for anybody and if you don't believe me ask the people who have coached tray young um then you go talking about jason kidd and come on man i i believe this ends with jason kidd his head coach i just think it makes i don't have any

insight information about that. My read on it is pretty simple. Jason Kidd will not be caught holding a bag ever. Right? So getting out of Dallas is probably something that he should probably do. Because if Niko got to make a move on somebody, he's going to have to make a move on him. And we have seen Kidd kind of try to distance himself from what has taken place there. Number two, James Dolan likes hiring former players. He and a guy that used to play for the Knicks. Because one thing Dolan seems to do is like Nix, Charles Oakley notwithstanding. But this is, this feels right up his alley. The only thing to me, and I've heard you talk on television about how attractive this job is,

my question about it is the city is ready for them to be good now. They gave them a couple of years to get their shit together, but what we learned from this last series is they are no longer just happy to be there. And getting to the conference finals was not enough. That in New York City, with the one team this whole city cares about, Talk to me about the nets. Nobody cares. This is the one team that everybody cares about. Man, you got to have a special kind of stomach to decide you going to walk in and take this job. With, by the way, an interesting roster in ways good and bad.

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So I don't think it's going to kid. And again, no insider information. But I think, I think Dallas is actually not going to be in a bad spot. And all signs seem to indicate that kid is pretty loyal. and Nico went and got him when he couldn't get another head coaching gig. So I think that matters. I actually, I still say,

watch the other team in Texas. Like, that, there's, there's a lot there. You talk about, you winked first. Like,

I just think there's more there, more to be explored when it comes to EMA. And to your point, Boston, boom, Easter Carpals, right?

Like, in terms of a guy that steps in with the chops, the personality, the command to roll with it. Now, if we don't go to anybody that currently has a job, I think Mike Brown and Taylor Jenkins are the two names that have been

circulated most. I'm cool with that, like one of those. I'm cool with that. Mike Brown obviously is a coach of the year. That offense for Sacramento was popping under him. I think that was the first firing of this year that really had people's heads spinning. Taylor Jenkins, same thing, depending on who you ask.

That offense was creative or dumb, depending on who you talk to. But remember, he had that Memphis Grizzly team rolling defensively at their height before all of the distractions we'll call them. So I think to me... Call them or call him. Call them or call him.

See, all the above. But I really think moving forward, Bo, like, oh, I think my AirPods are dying. I think moving forward, the relationship with the players is going to matter a lot. Because as much as you're right, the city's ready to win,

the ownership group is ready to win. You got a lot of money tied up in this roster. First time back in 25 years, like, let's build on that. You just cannot deny this generation of athlete. These guys work their butt off. Don't get me wrong. But there's a different, there are different soft skills that are required. And I think that might be where Tibbs, I would never question his basketball knowledge.

I would never question how much film he watches, but the soft skills matter. Yeah, see, in this roster and collection of personalities leaves me torn in that the soft skills do matter. And I look at them and with my somewhat old school sensibilities say to myself, they need somebody a little tough on them. But they just had the guy that's a little bit tough all of them and it didn't work. But what didn't work about it was more the creativity of the offense than it was that other stuff. You know what I mean? And I agree with you. And I agree with you, the word swap that I would offer

would be someone that holds them accountable. Yes. Right? Because you could do that and still have soft skills. Because ain't no way if we go to the basketball, I love it all. Ain't no way in East, in East Carver's finals, O.G., McHale, y'all getting lost on these screens. You put DeLon, right, Landry, Shaman, and all of a sudden they know exactly what the game plan is defensively. So, yes, there is an accountability, I think, that you have to have.

But again, it's like everything, EMA, hypothetically, if it's EMA, or even, let's go Mike Brown, who's had been in multiple stops and been successful. The coach that can say, get your ass where you're supposed to be, but also, like, how's your family? Like, you know what I mean? Like, that, I think, is what matters as you move forward because there's a lot of pressure in this city in particular. And of course, you become a pro athlete because you're not ducking the pressure, but it does

matter how you can connect and who you're playing for and who you're playing with in terms of taking you over the hump like we just talked about with the thunder and the facers. I would love to see E. coaching Carl Anthony Towns and McKell Bridges. That e-may, if we could like, if he could do it like the real world and do an interview with E-May every day after he tried to get something through Carl Anthony Towns head

about playing defense, right? Like, like, or him looking at, why are you talking to me like that? I just talked to you yesterday and your voice did not sound anything like it does right now. Why are you? Yo, you don't have to be. I'm just saying like, why do you even Kyrie, when Kyrie put on his cake for Carl had to be like,

I don't really like it when he changed up his voice. You know why we'd be laughing at him. But anyway, Bridges, imagine Emay with Bridges and his outright aversion to contact. Just absolute refusal to play through contact. Can you imagine eBay the first time their Bridges does that float sideways through the lane like it's the Matrix?

Well, if it's anything like we've seen with Houston, there's going to be a quick whistle in the substitution. Unless you go down on the other end get a hell of a block or a still because it ain't it's not a lot of runway for all that. Yeah, no. Like this is where they go is going to be interesting. Like with Mike Brown, I just wonder if his brand of players coach is going to be right for him. And the other one I haven't, I feel like I'm the only person that still thinks about this and wonders about this.

But what's the Rick Brunson and all of this? Because I personally would not want to have to be a coach where the star player's daddy is sitting there right next to me. I would not want to live under those circumstances. I understand. I totally understand the perception on that one, but my experience is it, this one defies perception. Because look at Jalen in terms of how he's gotten here, right? Second Round Foundation is the name of his foundation. Like, it's not, I don't think it's what the perception looks to be in terms of a dad being around. And I don't think, I also know, I know Rick, well, he's not trying to be in the way. He's not trying to be in the way. Okay, that's, you know, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll see how this goes. We'll see how this goes. Now, let me, let me, in terms of what kind of coach they need, because I do think it's the soft skills, but do you think this is one of those where you need to go get like a guy that does offense and then give him like a defensive specialist to work with him? Yes, that's exactly what you need. Because you're not, unless they go land some big time free agents that have been fringe all the, all defensive team, that can come off the,

bench, right? And you can afford, which are like unicorns. You're not, your defense is still going to be middle of the pack at best, probably. But if you can get an offense that nobody else can contain, again, I'll say it again. Like, the defense is what it was this season. That wasn't the issue versus the patience. The issue versus the patience was the offense completely collapsed. Like, I think if you can get, we talked about it versus Indiana, getting J. LaBrensen off the ball so that he didn't have to pound the rock so much because. of his size, the physicality,

durability, all those things in terms of longevity. If you can get McHall Bridges moving, if you can get O'GN and Obie moving some, like allow Kat to sort of be a playmaker at the top. He's a terrific passer. But there was far too much like just spread, hang out in the corners, space the floor, attempt this two-man game for the Knicks,

and it just, it wasn't enough. Would you try to get Kevin Durant? I would explore what that costs. and I know we talked about it this week, and get up, if it was straight up Cat for Katie, I think you got to do that if it's straight up, but I don't know that it's going to be straight up because if you lose two starters,

you already have talked about a bench that, and maybe under this new coach, will prove to be more productive, but you still were going to probably come into next season with some tweaks on that bench at a minimum. And if you roll out away from Kat, like are you then in on Mitchell Robinson in terms of the extension?

I would definitely explore it. If it's, to me, if it's Cap for Kevin Durant, it's a no brain. I'm not exactly. I think the money is close enough where you can make it work where it's reasonably close to being even money. Because I think this is where Carl starts making like $60 million a year and Durant's going to be at 55.

I'm sure Durant wants an extension wherever he goes because the one thing that you can say if you're the next is, okay, we get Durant, we got one year left on the deal, we figure out what we do after. Carl has those two years left that maybe you don't want. But I just, I am always leery of guys at Kevin Durant's age and I'm always at that at some point, this isn't going to be like that anymore, right? Like at some point, he's not going to be that dude. At some point, this is the guy that I think could score 30 points a game until the day he dies. I don't know how long he's going to be able to guard people, but I just feel like he's giving you 30 a night

till the day he dies. And I don't think that you can play. I don't. And I don't know how you feel the same way about this. I just don't feel like you can play Brunson and towns together in big minutes in the playoffs as long as both of them are suspect defenders. Unless you are playing a team with similar weaknesses on that side of the ball, right? And you can match up and you cancel each other out.

I agree with you. Like that's going to be costly. And we keep saying the East is wide open. But let's say the patients are here to stay. that defense is getting continuing to improve. We've seen that this year. The Pistons defense improving. The magic defense improving.

Cleveland, be whatever they are come to postseason. During the regular season, that defense, top notch, right? Whatever Boston is going to look like. Yeah, so I think it does pose a problem. Now, to your point, are you then offering a similar problem, though, depending on what version of KD is playing at this point? I will also add this, and I'm sure you know this. He did spurring the Knicks in that first big trade.

So I don't even know if this is realistic. That's a fair point. Right? Like, I don't know if the front office feels the way that Nix Twitter feels about that. And there's different opinions there as well. But I do think people forget that in the storyline of KD. You look back six years and it is interesting to think. And if Kevin Durant made a bad play, he should have gone to the Knicks,

which nobody would have said in 2019. Nobody would have said you should have gone to the NIC. next at any point. We understood every reason that you would tell the Knicks know at that point. But it wasn't simply that he went to the net, is that he went with his man's and that. Who, boy, I can't wait to watch that documentary. Hello? Now, it's funny you said that, though, because the one thing, I remember 2019 and I was like, why not be the guy? Like, I remember having that conversation. It was when I was starting to come around MSG and we were talking about that offseason. And I kept telling the guys,

I was like, y'all, somebody is coming that's going to be willing to wear the crown and turn a brand around. in an era where guys are so keenly aware of their brand, you can't tell me that somebody's not going to come. I was probably one of the few boys that I was like, why not? Anyway, but this is where Julie's Randall deserves credit in Nick's lore because he was a big piece of the turnaround. I remember in 2021 when the building first got going there, and I remember it was interesting because the broadcasts were not doing any crowd shots

because they still weren't fully populating the arenas. The only place they didn't was New York City because it was back. Like the garden started looking like something, because there's a whole generation that had never, ever seen it before. Like I think even for you, you had seen it a long, long, long time ago, but no like real contemporaneous recollection of it being like that. And I was like, somebody's going to be the one. It never would have dawned on me, though, that the somebody would turn out to be Jalen Brunson. Yeah. Right? Like he turned out to be the guy. And he turned out to be

this good. Yes. Yes. Yes. And this is why I say Rick and I are cool, because our first interaction, Bo, once Jalen is acquired, first thing he says to me, did you think my son's too small. I'm like, hold up, hold up, hold up. We can talk about it, but hold up. And at that point, it was when the idea of Brunson and Donovan Mitchell were being battered around, which I hated. But yeah, like, I do you talk about documentaries you can't wait to see the Brunson story? Like, to be debating whether he's already the greatest Nick, wherever you sit on that, fine, but that you're already starting to have that conversation three years in, that's mind-blowing.

is a miniature version of the Steph Curry art, right? And he's not Steph Curry. I'm not saying that. But at every level, Steph Curry achieved and the question was or the thought was, well, he can't do it in the next place, right? Jaylon Brunson was a national player at a year in college. Well, he can't do it in the next place. You wind up being a second round pick, all this. And no, it's kept going. Now, I do think he's ultimately too small to be your best player. Now, the question I think for him is going to be, if he's not, not your best player than what exactly are you doing, right? They're guys like that. Like, for example, could you win a championship of Carmelo Anthony as your best player was always debatable, but good luck finding a player that's better than Carmelo Anthony.

You know what I mean? Like it's a dilemma that you wind up in. And his has kept going. It's kept going. And it will be interesting to see how that goes in a different scheme because on one level, I'm sure he got tired from all that pound of the ball. On the other hand, I'm sure he loved having a ball like that. Yeah, and he's a gamer, that's for sure.

But I think that juxtaposition is to me one of the reasons why this job is attractive. Because he can, but I do think a lot of how he has played has been out of necessity. And because the offense was so mundane and simple. And so to me, whether you're a coach or a guy looking for a place to go and win, a team to add your talents to, Jalen is the guy that genuinely will play however it is that will allow the team to win. It just so has happened in the last couple of years. It has been the ball in his hand in terms of the most consistent formula.

This is, this team is, it's going to. I mean, this off season, we didn't even get to talk about the Janus possibility because I ain't going to lie. My thought with the we're going to hire Jason Kidd is we're going to try to make Yonis say he want to come here. Plus, everybody kept throwing that out there. And I was trying to go back down the line when the, when kid got let go. I don't remember Janus vouching heavily for Kidd.

one way or the other. So kid, I think the big thing that we remember is that kid put the ball in his hands and made him the point guard, which they had that team with all those super long dudes. Like it was him like John Henson, Thonmaker, and just see like that, a squad of condors that was out there. But it did seem like he was the earliest adopter on the idea of Yonis. That being said, the year after he leaves, Yonis wins MVP. So, you know, we don't remember, remember when we thought that Steph Curry would have this like affection for Mark Jackson because it kind of blew up under him and then we saw what happened after that. Oh, yeah. I just going to throw this out here right now. Just so people know. Guys, ain't nobody hiring Mark Jackson. It's not happening. And you can bring it up as many times as you want to. It's so much stuff that happened at the end in Golden State. It's impossible for me to recount it all. But the the issue with Mark, aside from some of the offensive issues that you point out with Thibode. Like for the reasons that you fired Tom Thibito, you absolutely do not hire Mark Jackson.

Because the last time we saw him coach, it was basically a similar thing on offense. But his problem is he messy. Everything that happened in Golden State was messy. You got assistant coaches bringing tape recorders to meetings because they're afraid they're going to get set up and put in a bad place. You got Mark Jackson saying players intentionally want the team to lose while they're hurt so that they'll wind up looking better. Like, it was so much drama at the end, and that is the reason why nobody has hired him

in 11 years. In New York City on this team, with all the factors this roster's going to have anyway, man, ain't nobody, ain't nobody anywhere going to hire him, but they're really not going going to hire him here, right? I think he's a good broadcaster, though. Maybe we can get him back in that boot. Or maybe he need this. How about this?

Why don't they hire Jeff? and Gundy. You know, I've seen an article or two that has suggested that. See, I don't know if he, I don't know what he still has, right, because he was gone for so long, but he's been an assistant with the Clippers. And from what people have said, he's done a very good job at that, you know, they know, of course, he's a little bit dower, right? He's got that whole undertaker vibe, not like the wrestling undertaker, like, you know, the one that, like, more like Paul Barer, you know, like he actually puts your mom in the ground, that sort. But I don't know if you're going to find a better coach than Van Gundy, but I also don't know if he can still do it.

Yeah, I just wonder, because Van Gundy's praise this year has been a lot about that defense for the Clippers. And they have different personnel than this Knicks roster. And do you, again, men of a certain generation, so to speak, unless they are deliberate in adapting to the new NBA, do you run into some of the same problems offensively? Yeah. I mean, Tom Thibodeau's main man is Stan Van Gundy. Right? Right. I think you might need to get farther away from the tree. Staying is my guy. I love staying.

But we might need to get farther away from the tree in order, I think, to make this happen. This was, it's going to be interesting. I have long, not long, the firing isn't even that new. But I really feel like this is a veteran job. J-Wil offered up Ray John Rondo, which I thought was really interesting. I didn't know that he was gunning for a head coach position imminently. I don't know that he is. But when Jay said that, it does get you to thinking.

And, you know, JJ Redick obviously had a terrific year in year one. This is a big job. And I will say this. I believe that people can just genuinely outgrow one another, and that's okay. Tom Tiptoe obviously left this organization in a terrific position. But this one, the next move is, shout out to our colleague, Alan Hahn, who's like, the next move is Jenga because are you going to keep playing or are you about to knock it over? And it's fragile. So I do think too in the last four years, the front office has deserved

some respect and some trust because they've done really well in terms of their decision making. We are going to see. This is Monica McNutt. Check out on ESPN talking basketball. Check out on the radio on MSG, everywhere else talking about the Knicks. And check out in Harlem where them sirens be. Because over there by her house, man. it's going down. They just passing by. They just passing by. They just passing by.

I appreciate you. Thanks, both. Good to catch up with you. Likewise. Likewise. And ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us

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