The Right Time with Bomani Jones - Pat Forde on College football's Playoff Crossroads, Notre Dame's frustrations, Private Equity Problems | 12.10

Episode Date: December 10, 2025

Pat Forde of Sports Illustrated joins Bomani Jones. First, they discuss the College Football Playoff committee and the mistakes they have made along the way. Later, they break down Notre Dame's decision to skip a bowl game and whether or not they will attempt to disrupt college football's postseason structure. Finally, they react to Lane Kiffin sending his LSU staff back to Ole Miss to coach in the College Football Playoff and to Utah's decision to get into bed with private equity money. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the right time, a wave original. My name is Beaumani Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. It is that time of week where you have a guest, join us from s.i.com.

A man, Pat 40. How are you, sir? Doing well, Beaumani. Crazy times in college sports here. Yeah, but this has to be your best weekend of the year, right? like after grinding for basically three straight months, now it's just Army Navy and the Hinesman. I tell you what, you are exactly right.

This week feels a little bit like a holiday. But everybody else is keeping us busy complaining with whatever the committee came up with for the playoff. And there's always stuff to talk about. So it's interesting with this playoff. And I think they don't really make them like you anymore in the sense that you cover football and basketball at the collegiate level.

And one thing I do think is interesting is that there is an understanding for the NCAA basketball tournament that you have to let some of the smaller schools in in the name of inclusion. The example I'd use before, you and I used to talk about this many years ago, the Indiana high school state basketball tournament, right? And like the dynamic of not everybody thinks they're going to win, but you get everybody in. But it feels a little different with football because you know these guys are going to get their teeth kicked in.

Like we see it happen early in the year all the time. We don't really see upsets of good teams versus small schools, which you do see. in basketball from time to time. I have seen the argument made. I think Joe Clatt said this, that the only reason the small schools are there is to avoid litigation, to which the answer is, duh.

But do you think, like, I guess aesthetically, I don't know if aesthetically is the right word, but just kind of for the ethos of what this is, is it necessary to have the James Madison's of the world have the opportunity to make this tournament? I think it is. You know what? I'm a bit of a populist in this,

and I have always loved that element of the NCAA. basketball tournament is that it is an all-commer's tournament and you do get your chance and you're all members of NCAA Division I or in this case the Football Bowl subdivision, the FBS. I think there needs to be representation for those teams and to give them a shot. And generally speaking, yeah, they don't fare that well. But I will say, all right, Tulane beat USC a couple of years ago in the Cotton Bowl. Now, USC's level of motivation may be questionable, but there are some programs that are pretty good at that level. James Madison, Tulane are the two that are in this year's tournament.

Last year, Boise State was not completely blown off the field by Penn State. They also had Ashton Gentie, who was certainly not a your average mountain west player. So I'm in favor of it. Football, it is so bizarre. Like, yes, in basketball, people love the Cinderella's and football, they hate them. They don't even like the idea or the concepts like, not. get out of our tournament. We want all the big brands and all the power conferences.

It's like what is wrong with giving a couple spots like every other sport to people from outside the mainstream? Well, also, are we forgetting that last year in the first round of the tournament, the big boys who played road games in the first round got to asses kick the exact way that James Madison is probably going to get theirs? Absolutely. I was there to see Tennessee get blown out of the horseshoe. by Ohio State.

So in the snow. We will hear it. We will hear it. Oh, they don't belong when James Madison loses by 21 or more. But we've seen this movie before with Power Conference teams. That's my criticism of this is that or the existence of the tournament at this scale is that the variance or the difference between the number five school and say the number 12 school is really, really wide. Right? Especially once you start adding home field.

into the equation. Hey, hey, hey, man. This is going to happen, I think probably every year, right? Like, I think we've got Texas A&M Miami seems compelling on paper, but we talked about this on Monday. Mike Elko versus Mario Cristobal, that's the Dale Brown versus Bobby Knight of this situation. Like, I don't think that one's going to be close. Like, chances are everybody's going to get their doors blowing off in that round. Oh, yeah, I think that's highly likely. And, you know, we see it in the NFL. I mean, they have a lot of the first round NFL games are blowouts. I'm wearing a Denver Bronco hat right now. They got destroyed by the bills last year. There was a wide variance there. So, you know, people throw up their arms when it comes to

college football, though, because all of the blue bloods want to be taken care of all of the time. Yeah. Now, I'm going to ask this about James Madison because I haven't paid that much attention to this team. Their head coach will be the head coach at UCLA next year. But it's worth noting that James Madison is kind of sort of in this tournament twice because Indiana is full of dudes that went to James Madison yet James Madison somehow recovered and got good enough to make it to this tournament. It's incredible. Like James Madison's one of the ultimate success stories, right? Because as you said, when Kurt Signetti left JMU for Indiana, he took everything but the last speck of who hash, man. I mean, he took like 12 players, took all the coaches. And James Madison

had to rebuild on the fly. And Bob Chesney did it. And he is the same guy to a degree as Kurt Signetti. I mean, if you look at his track record, he was Salvei Regino, which is like NAA, and then moved his way up, D3, D2, same way Signetti did through the ranks. These are guys that have proven they can win at a lot of places with a lot of players. And I did. I saw James Madison play early in the season in person against Louisville.

And they've got some personnel. I mean, they are not without players. That's for sure. Now, again, can they match Oregon speed? That's probably going to be an issue. But Bob Chesney's done a hell of a job there. Also, Dan Lanning is the sort of psycho that might see this as a way to like, I wonder if we can score 75.

What do you guys think? Yeah. Somebody put it this way to me about him. He's the kind of guy who likes pulling wings off of flies. Doesn't mind a little torture. Do you think he's going to wind up, by the way, the first guy to realize, the fully realized at Oregon, that this is actually maybe a destination job,

but you should probably just ride this out. Phil Knight's helping him realize that. He has a personal contract with him that basically has made him almost untouchable in the job market. And so between that and, yeah, I think, I don't think Lannings the type personally where he's like, I need a new job every three years anyway. But you combine that and you combine the Phil Knight's situation.

and I think Dan Lannning, he's rebuffed everybody quickly and just said, this is where I'm going to be. All right. Now, we went around to these other guys. I tried to, you know, start this with people that are actually in the tournament. The big story is the team that is not. And it is Notre Dame who I think they have a fair gripe. If we were better than Miami last week, I don't really understand how we're not better than Miami this week, regardless of how you came to that conclusion. But they're out and they did a very Notre Dame thing. And I think that younger people don't realize this. Every and then Notre Dame just decides they're too good for a bowl game, right? All the way through 1970, they did it every year.

But there was a time where they were too good to go to the Independence Bowl, and quite honestly, so is everybody else? This time, they said, is that called the Pop Tarts Bowl? Nah, we're not going. They're getting a lot of hell for this. It's understandable that they are. What is your read on this? So I have multiple reads on this, if you'll indulge me.

First of all, yes, the committee, I thought, just screwed this up eight ways from Sunday is, and I think I have less problem with Miami being in over Notre Dame because I think they should be and I think they should have been ahead of them all along or at least in the last several weeks. They're ridiculously arcane, convoluted protocol kept them from comparing them head to head until the last minute. But the other part of this is Alabama getting this remarkable free pass of, you know, moving ahead of Notre Dame based on a bad win over Auburn. Well, it's hard to win at Auburn. No, it's not. Not this year. And then losing by three touchdowns in the SEC championship game and having no penalty for that whatsoever.

So the committee boxed themselves in with this stupid weekly TV show, which does nobody any good other than ESPN to say, thank you. Thank you for people watching and give us ratings. it does. It locks the committee into illogical stands that they then have to undo late. All that said, yes, this is Notre Dame being precious Notre Dame. And it is, I've been insulted to a degree by the stances that they have taken here. You know, of how dare the ACC attack us? Well, you know what?

the ACC has a family member in Miami. Your extended family. Family always wins over extended family. That's the way these things go. And the only way you get Miami in is one direct comparison. So you've got to hit that point, right? That's the hole you'd run through is Miami beat Notre Dame. So that's what we've got to hammer down.

Now, showing that game 13 times on the ACC and that one, maybe excessive. Maybe excessive. I know Notre Dame's point is, was well taken there. But come on, man. Somebody was going to get left out. There were three teams clustered right there together. One of them was going to be left out.

It's Notre Dame. And Notre Dame can't handle it. So I have thoughts on Notre Dame, generally speaking, right? And I think it's fair game to say this year, as I know you. But you grew up rooting for Notre Dame, right? Mm-hmm. We have to appreciate about Notre Dame.

And since my mother is listening to this, I will alter the terminology, but everybody will understand what I mean. Notre Dame a bad one, right? Notre Dame a bad one. Notre Dame been a bad one for a very long time, right? Now, Notre Dame ain't been what Notre Dame was in a very long time. But in her mind, Notre Dame is still that bad one.

Like, for people who have to understand this, Notre Dame has not won a national championship in 37. years. Okay. It's been that long. It's been, I would argue, 30 since they were a real contender. They went to that BCS championship game against Alabama, but I remember it was over before I got off the plane at halftime that year, right? But a bad one is a bad one forever and will always see herself as a bad one. And so they have this situation ship with the ACC, right? Hey, we come in, we play five games a year against your teams and it's good for you because Some of you don't sell your games out, right?

You'll sell out Wallace Wade Stadium when we show up because they don't get a bad one in town that often when they come down here. Now, do they, right? The thing about a bad one is, bad one is not expected to be treated fairly. The bad one is expected to be treated like she is special because it has always been the case. They play by different rules, right? And they are, no matter what anybody says, they're the baddest one that college football has ever truly had. Like, it didn't endure for Miami or Florida State once they're. stop being good. It is endured for Miami no matter how, I mean, for Notre Dame, no matter how

mediocre they were. So they had this deal with the ACC and the way Notre Dame sees it, the ACC is the one that's getting a favor done for them. Right. They're like, we let you come onto our NBC platform, right? When you come play against us, they're like, hey, we're doing this for you. And then when it comes down to it, you don't, what do you mean? You don't want to do this for us. Like you'd rather do something for your own than to do something for us. And to everybody else, this makes perfect sense. But to the bad one, she's like, no, that's not, what do you mean? This isn't, this isn't, this isn't how this works.

And so now they stand and they look around and they're like, you know what? We ain't going to no Pop-Tart bowl. We was going to play. Like, even though the rest of us knew this committee is unwieldy and you should be ready for everything. Bad was like, I ain't going to say no to us. We go to that. We go, we go, we're going to play for it.

And then they're not in the one place where. I cut them slack for not going to play to Pop-Tarts Bowl is I don't know how many of their players were going to actually play in this game and we have seen it. It's hard to dial these guys up. Florida State who has not recovered from that game that they did not show up for after they didn't make the playoff. That's where I cut them some slack, but we just have to, we can't expect Notre Dame to act like the rest of the girls, man. They just not. Your point is very well taken. Yes, they are accustomed to a great deal of sucking up and faunning and preferential treatment. And a lot to a large degree, they've earned it, right?

They were able to go independent and make it work. And everybody else, if they could, would do it too. I think there's a couple others that could pull it off, Texas, Michigan, maybe, or something. But Notre Dame has done it forever and made it work. And when you could do that and then, yes, when you get the ACC to say for as long as they did, yes, whatever you want, fine. Whatever you want, just play our teams, we'll do it. And all of a sudden now the ACC's going,

campaigning against you, it is an affront to their sensibilities, let's say. Yeah, you know, Notre Dame was like, Notre Dame don't know what anything costs. Right? Notre Dame, Notre Dame is like, I don't leave the house with my own money. What are you talking about? I'm going to show up and somebody's going to pay for my drinks.

At every turn, it has happened to be the case. Now, it's interesting because I think, yes, they've been good to close out the year. Their athletic director, and I don't know who has sent him on this suicide mission to make a fool of himself in every interview. He said that they played one of the most impressive 10 game streets in the history of college football. And I feel like I would have heard more about it if that was what was really going on. You think? I mean, like, you think everybody involved in this doesn't want Notre Dame? in their money-making tournament?

Of course, of course. The history of the sport, they beat USC. That's it. That's it. And I was there. They beat them by 10 points. It was fine. But they also barely beat a terrible Boston college. They beat a terrible Purdue. They beat a terrible Arkansas.

They beat a terrible Syracuse. What are we talking about here other than just the hyperbole involved there? And that's the problem. You know, again, to your point, we didn't see this coming because why would we see this coming? Because we're Notre Dame. All of a sudden you get this like disproportionate umbrage on the other side and this hyperbole and this drama.

I can't believe they've done this to us. It's like, oh my God, I'm sorry. And they've decided to spite the ACC, which a conference that has been highly disrespected, at least they would feel this way, right? Just in the way everything is gone. Their champion is being treated like they don't even like, they're being treated like they're the six out of the group of five, basically. Like I think that's the way the conference, you know, they put themselves in a bond with

that tiebreaker. But hey, I think the same way you have the field about group of five, I also think that conferences are supposed to matter and winning a conference should matter. That's, that's my take on their end of it. But also, when they look at the way that Notre Dame is doing this, Notre Dame is basically spiting them in ESPN by saying, we're not going to go to your bowl game, right? We're just not, nah, put somebody else in there, see how that goes.

And I wonder how this goes in the future for them because they, the athletic director said that he felt there was irreparable damage done with their relationship with the ACC, which seems like crazy talk. You guys will be fine. Totally.

But that was an interesting phrase that he has repeated many times. That's like legal phrasing. Like we're setting up to sue your ass here. You know, as you point out, like, who hasn't sued the ACC lately? All right, Florida State did, Clemson did. Everybody within the ACC is mad at the ACC, it seems.

So this is kind of part of the turmoil that goes with that league. But the phrasing there, I thought that was very aggressive. And he tamped it down a little bit yesterday. He did a press conference from campus. And he said, he was asked, can the relationship heal? And he said, yeah, anything can heal. You know, I'm not here to be dramatic. Oh, really?

You know, but it'll take a while, I believe, he said. So, but there's going to be some interesting times, especially when Jim Phillips, when the college playoff committee meets, which is the commissioners plus Pete Bavacqua, the Notre Dame AD. They meet at the championship game, and we'll get those two in a room. And we'll get Big 12 commissioner Brett Yarmark, who came out and ripped Pete Bavocqua last night. This is going to be some spicy times as these people figure out. And Notre Dame decides how much this power flex has caused backlash or whether. the ACC should bowed out of them further. How often does the ACC look at itself and just simply say,

Miami was supposed to be good? Right? Like they've gotten, since Florida State joined the conference in, what, 1993, they've gotten three national championships out of Florida State. They're not the Florida State now that they were, but Florida State elevated the level of play for the whole conference once they're there. Like, I mean, they did all that. the plan for them when they expanded was we were adding Miami and a pretty good Virginia Tech,

but more importantly, we were adding Miami and we would have two tent pole national powers that will legitimize us as a football conference. And it never happened. It's been over 20 years and it never happened. It is amazing that they got Miami just when it all went away. Yeah, no, it really is. The timing couldn't end up couldn't have been worse. for Miami to just fade off and have never been what they had been from 1983 until 2001.

I mean, that was the program in college football. And you're right. I mean, like it made sense. This was a, this was like a draft that made perfect sense. On paper, you drafted the right teams. And you've got Florida State and you've got Miami. You got Clemson. And it just hadn't worked out.

Clemson ended up basically saving the conference in the last 10 years. here. But it has been kind of shocking that Miami has never been able to get itself fully back together till maybe now. But I remain unconvinced that like they're going to win a national championship with Mario Cristobal. Think about it this way. When the U, the ESPN 30 for 30 came out, there was, it dawned on me that there was just at that point a generation that did not understand what the big deal about Miami was. Like there were some people that were then just young enough that they, they did not, they were not there for the phenomenon, right?

Okay. It's been 16 years since that came out. So there are people who are not familiar with the movie about the phenomenon that people then were not familiar with like 1983. That's 42 years ago. Long time. Long time. And they were it.

and they were coming to the conference, and I remember the day that it ended forever. They somehow lost in 2004 in Chapel Hill to North Carolina. They were the number three team in the country. And it's never been the same. If I'm not mistaken, no, it was the next year that they lost the fight in the tunnel to LSU. That actually, that's probably the more realistic ending of it, where they lost a fight at the Peach Bowl.

Yeah. Hey, I don't want to hijack you, but nobody in the history of football walked into a better situation than Larry Coker, right? I mean, that was the true. Just roll out the balls. I'm going to win my first 26 games or whatever it was as a coach. And then it was like, oh, wait, he can't actually coach.

Never mind. And from then on, they've struggled. Well, think about this. Nobody has done more long run damage to their reputation than Butch Davis by leaving when he did. And look, it was a money thing, right? Like Miami Notority was like, we can win with anybody here, right? Watch us.

We're going to go win with Larry Coker. That was on the board. Butch Davis stays there. They've got a national championship, if not two. He's a college football Hall of Famer, and instead he went and coach the Browns. Yeah. The Browns.

Then he goes to North Carolina, and for things that now seem laughable, the whole thing got shut down right before it was about to bear fruit. Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely, right. And yes, for stuff now that is completely, you know, above board or at least not would not be prosecuted the same way it was then. Have you enjoyed the Ed Ogerard tour where he's basically kind of figured out that there's nothing to lose?

So yeah, we can talk about the stuff we used to do. Nobody cares anymore. Right. It's hilarious. And everybody knew Ed was that guy on the staff, you know? I mean, like, but yes, the quotes from him, we used to go through the back door with the cash. Now we go through the front door with the cash.

Everybody loves their chance to do their end. I told you, Lay should have brought Ed. with him. I don't, if, if Brett Frye can go back to be the defensive coordinator at a school that just fired him, you can bring Ed back. Oh, I wouldn't be surprised if he's there in some capacity. Special assistant to the head coach in charge of Mojo or whatever, you know, I mean, they'll find a place for Coachell. Ed is, but to this day, Ed's won a national championship. He's done all these things. He will always be the guy that took off his shirt and challenged his whole team to fight. in his first meeting at Old Miss.

Like these are things now that people do not remember. But in 2006, I think it was six. Or, yeah, 2006, he got the job at Old Miss. And he asked anybody if they were still loyal to the previous coach, David Cutcliffe, and a couple of them through their hands up. And Ed O'Heron took off his shirt and said that they could fight right then and there. That's head coach material, isn't it? Well, what about P. Golding, who seems to be the spiritual successor?

Well, absolutely. No, there's a little bit of the same thing there. No doubt that Pete Golding is not your polished CEO type head coach. And it's funny that, like you said, Coach O, back in the day, I think there was a little bit more that you could probably pull off in terms of just being, we're just going to go kick people's ass. That's how we play football. As opposed to, you know, all the things that you have to be now, I kind of miss the coach O dynamic. AJ, we're going to talk more about this after the break, but I have to tell you, we did something here about. I just saw that picture of Pete Golding when he got the job, and I was like, ooh, that doesn't look like no head coach. And it bounced around, and Chris Lowe of all three was like, well, what would make him look more like a head coach? If he was more clean cut, if he was a bit more debonair, yes and yes.

That is exactly what I'm saying. Like the fact that you know exactly what I'm talking about is the point. This is he got in that press. conference. I've never seen anybody cussed that much. And granted, that's just part of the new world. But I was, oh, man, I don't know how long this is going to last. But he's also like, he's in the Matt Patricia category, right? Like the smarter than he looks. Yeah. Sort of thing. Yes, yes. He is. Yeah. I mean, there's, I guess, apparently some rain managed qualities to his coaching ability. But yeah, but that you also have to be able to communicate as a head

coach. And we'll see how that goes the rest of the way with him. Well, look, coming up next, there's something else going on with that Ole Miss job that if you haven't seen, I think you'll want to hear about. All right, we're back with Pat 40, sI.com. We're talking about what's going on with Ole Miss, and we talked a lot on this show. I guess everybody talked a lot about the Lane Kiffin exit, whether he should have been allowed to continue to coach the team.

It seemed obvious to me. No, he should not have been. There's a zillion different reasons why he shouldn't. Okay, so since then, Kiffin has gone to LSU. P. Golding, who, if you believe certain people, has been MFing Lane Kiffin for weeks behind the scenes to the tune of getting this job because I think he had a crazy level of leverage

because they really want to win this playoff. They really feel like they have a chance to win the national championship. Best season over. Okay, cool. So Golden stays there with the defensive guys. All the offensive guys went with Lane to LSU. But now four of those offensive coaches,

including Charlie Weiss Jr., the offensive coordinator, they are coming back to Old Miss to coach the team through this playoff on offense. And if it was inappropriate for Lane to stay because you're afraid he might poach your players and everything else, then the same hole for all of his guys who just quit on you too? This is a bit of a disconnect, logical disconnect, right? Is exactly what you said. The difference I think, I guess here is that like the, spite of Lane personally has got so heavy and so thick.

It's like, no way that dude comes back. Now the rest of your officer, hey, you know, we need to coach. Jesus Christ, we had to come up with a game plan here. You know, we got to coat some positions. We need to get some new route trees for our receivers with these new game play. You know, so, like, I think they realized this was so heated, I think, and immediately bitter that the stakes immediately were just like, no Lane Kiffin forever. everybody, if you leave two, you're going to, forget it.

And then you get a little calmed down. You're like, oh, my gosh, we actually do want to try to win this playoff. Who's coaching the tight ends? Wait a minute. Get these guys back here. So, you know, you could say, all right, Lane and LSU were being bigger or whatever by saying go ahead and go back and do it. But at the same time, to your point, go ahead, go back and do it.

And by the way, make sure those guys know the good ones. We got a few spots open down here at LSU. Yeah, I think the tough spot was the one that you pointed out is somebody has to call this offense, okay? And so to me, it felt very simple that if you were going to stand on principle, then you had to be willing to set fire to the idea of this being the chance to win a national championship, which I'll just throw out there. They have a chance to go to the semi-final, perhaps even the final.

They do not actually have an actual factual chance that went in the national championship. But, and this is the other part of it for me, is they are behaving in such a way that explains why Lane would leave to go to LSU. Because they're behaving as though this is the last chance we'll ever have. And they have a history to indicate that that would be the case. But they're behaving like, I don't think we'll ever get back here. So this is what it is that we have to do. And yeah, I get it. Maybe you do, but something tells me this is going to be chaos.

Like, you think Pete Golding is that happy about these guys sticking around and coming back? You think the players are just that thrilled about them coming back? I don't think they're going to lose to Tulane because Tulane doesn't really have a coach. But this is, this has room for incredible drama. It does. I mean, the soap opera elements are all there in terms you got. so the the scorned relationships and then you got people trying to come back and mend fences or repair burn bridges but at the same time that as you say they like the the staff dynamic they don't

like each other right that seems very much like an offense defense operation and not a whole team operation which is kind of the way lane rolls right i mean i'm not sure lane cares anything about much too much beyond his pretty ball plays and the guys that make them work and so I can see this and the fracture comes and then and the offensive staff leaves and then they got to walk it back and come back in the building. Yeah, I'm sure that's not going to be the smoothest thing. And then, yeah, the players in there, they're like, I thought you left. Why are you back here? Well, yeah, that's the thing. It's not like they've been gone for a while now. Right. They've been gone for a week and change. Like, I imagine there may be a couple of them that came back.

That's like, woo, right? Like everybody usually likes the running backs coach, right? Like, it comes back. It's like, yo, I'm so glad to see you. It's a couple of them. That's like, I thought you was gone, man. Like when I could, no, this is the best news we'd ever received that you were going to be out of there. And I also love this about Ole Miss. They all seem to be pretty happy about Pete Golding being the coach.

And it's going to be fun to see. It's a difference between, and especially between being defensive coordinator and being head coach. Everybody used to love Will Mustchamp, too. As the coordinator. Yeah. Now, the offensive coordinators, generally speaking, they have to be a little bit more forward-facing, right, with the public. And they're used to that a little bit more.

Defense coordinators, yeah, those guys are the dark room guys who are sitting there like, they are doing nothing but dialing up blitzes and stunts and figure out how we're going to, you know, take out that receiver. And all of a sudden is like, oh, my, wait, I got to, I'm doing this press conference, what? And then I got to go shake hands and kiss babies. I got to do that, too. You know, this will be an adjustment, clearly. Well, one thing I want to ask about the playoff itself that I hadn't talked about with you, and you as somebody who has been around, you know, Louisville, Kentucky, and Indiana sports for the longest.

Indiana is the number one team in the country. And I contend that because of the playoff and the way things have gone, we are downplaying the magnitude of what I think was one of the great upsets in college football history was them winning that. I don't care if it's the one versus two game. It's Indiana versus Ohio State with stakes. and they won a 13 to 10 game. Can you explain to people who may not understand the magnitude of this?

Like Indiana winning, being the number one team in football in December is? It is the most amazing thing I've ever seen in college football. And I have been covering the sports since like 1990. So I have seen more horrible Indiana football than most people have. Covered a lot of it. Been there when the stadium is, best half full and the fans are the ones that are in the stadium are talking about the

basketball scrimmage that's going to come that night. You know, it is for them to do this, and as you pointed out, to beat a good Ohio State team with a Big Ten championship on the line was unbelievable to go into Oregon and win that game, to be 13 and O, to dominate most of the teams that you have played. Kurt Signati, I've never seen a coaching job like this, never seen it. He's 24 and 2 at a school where it would be much more realistic to think he'd be 2 and 24. I mean, it's just,

it's preposterous. I don't know how he's done it. I like, that dude needs to write books and do seminars because it's unlike anything I've ever seen. And I think an underrated part is the great personality fit he is in that no matter what you think about Bobby Knight,

they love that man up there, right? Now, Signetti has not demonstrated any of the darkness of night, but he has all of the confidence and bravado and obvious acumen, right? Like the look you dead in the face and just be like, hey, Google me. Like I win. This is what it's going to be. Like some countries, some places like dictators, right? They like, you know, they like those sorts of dudes. This is their kind of guy. Why Lane seemed to make so much more sense at Florida. He's the spiritual successor to Steve Spurrier. Signetti is that guy for that school. 100%. He is the spirit.

successor to Bob Knight without choking anybody. Yes. You know, or other, you know, anti-social actions. But he is, he is, he's cocky, but he's also like, you know, we ain't screwing around with anything here. I am in charge. We're doing it my way. And everybody's like, yes, sir, yes, sir, you just keep winning whatever you want. Here's $11 million. Somehow just keep pulling this Miracle off. He is, he is that, that connection to what Indiana people know and love in terms of, of how a program leader looks and acts. The one opposite between he and night, and I always say, how does the monster of night get created, two undefeated regular seasons, two final fours, and a national championship before you turn 37? Like, that's, that's how it happens. Yeah.

This guy didn't get it really going until his 60s. Yeah. It is, that's astounding, you know, and you look now and say, my God, why didn't people give him a chance earlier? And then actually you back up and look at his resume. It's like, oh, gosh, he won here. He won there. He won there. And he was a saving assistant. Like, he should have gotten chances earlier.

There's no doubt about it. But he is, you talk to him, and he's one of those guys, you know, he keeps everything kind of suppressed. But it will come out in little ways that, like, man, I am so ticked off. I did not get a chance until I was 60. I can't wait. I am sticking it to everybody because I can because I couldn't before because nobody let me. And he's from one of those coaching families. They normally give guys like that jobs all the time.

Like I had to not mix him up with the other one, Frank. That was the other name. Yeah. Frank was his dad. And then Frank Jr. Yes. I was a head coach. Yeah, that is a coaching family.

And you're right. Usually those guys are fast starters. You know, they get their spots early. and away they go. And that was not the way this transpired with Kurt. All right. I want to get to something that's a little bit more amorphous, but I think it's maybe the most important thing

to happen in college sports in quite a long time. And it is, University of Utah is taking a $500 million, I believe, is the number of capital infusion from a private equity firm. And what that is going to do is to create a for-profit entity that is owned by, but at the university, the athletic department, a handful of boosters

will be playing this. Now, where I think this is interesting that I think is lost is all politics are local, right? And Utah's chief rival, BYU, has access to money in a much different way that quite honestly from here is a little bit uncomfortable to talk about. But we are seeing what Ryan Smith,

the owner of the Utah Jazz and the Utah Mammoth is doing with their basketball program, they might have the best player in the country. because now the money that they have access to as the official college of a church, right? They're playing a whole different game. Utah, which I imagine thought they were going to be living

that Pac-12 life for a lot longer than they were. Everything changes up. Now they need the money. Now, we'd heard the Big Ten was thinking about engaging in private equity. Utah is the first to do it. My point has always been, show me the thing that private equity has ever made better. I saw a lot online with people saying,

oh, they believe that this is the beginning of the end of college sports. And I'm trying to avoid the doom and gloom scenario, but I do have the question of to you and from what you're hearing, what does this seem like for Utah? You know, I don't know yet. But this is one of those classic things that we see over and over and over in college sports. It sounded good, look good. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, well,

that didn't really work out the way we thought it would, because now they're coming in and they're saying, why do you have a cross-country program? Do you have to play soccer? You know, the private equity, to your point, first of all, yes, I've never seen it make anything better. But secondly, they're not there just to hang around. You know, this isn't like the rich boosters say,

can I stand on the sideline? No, they want to make money. They want to stay in what's going to happen. And a lot of their ideas are not going to be the same as college sports. Now, maybe some of those are good ideas that we need to do some things differently. But I think a lot of the times what comes with this is a lot of unintended consequences that all of a sudden you're like, oh, man, this is not really what we thought we were just getting a pile

of cash. It doesn't usually work out that way. But your point on the BYU thing is 100% dead on, that nothing galvanizes schools to do something, quote unquote, radical, like getting beat by their, by, the team that you have to live with. You know, that will take, that will make you go higher Will Wade or that will make you, you know, you will do things that you may have said for 10 years. We're not doing that.

And then all of a sudden is like, oh, we better do that because our rival's killing us. Well, you remember when Jim Grobe got half the conference fired in the ACC, when Wake Forest won the, because Wake Forest wins the ACC. None of you can say anything anymore. No story that you have is going to explain away the fact that not into Wake Forest when the ACC. They played Georgia Tech in the ACC championship game that year, right? So these, everybody here had to take calculus. Yeah. No, no, right. You're out here, you're out here bringing me these kids from Hargrave and everything else and you can't win, right? Oh, okay, no, you're going to

figure this out. I believe we're seeing this in part also with Signetti. No doubt. I mean, it certainly didn't help James Franklin that Signetti was doing all of this. We just saw, as Michigan State moved on their guy yet? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they fired. Jonathan Smith. Yeah. Yeah. So like we're, you know, like those things happen. And so the BYU thing happens with Utah. And now Utah goes against this money, but you hit the point that I try to explain to people.

I don't think they get it. They're in the business in college sports of making money, which is not the same thing as making a profit. Right? Like they make the money to spend the money. That's the whole point. And you're right. Somebody's walking around there. I think I saw somebody make the point. They were like, hey, so does like everybody need a helmet?

Is that? Like, that's what private equity does. If you watch the Bayer, private equity is the computer. Yeah, yeah, it is. And it is, yes, a major part of that is cost containment. And college sports don't do cost containment, right? They make it to spend it and that's it. And this is going to be a different deal.

They, they're, I have heard, you know, some people who have had outside firms in, not necessarily, you know, a full private equity deal. But yeah, they're walking around. They're like, you give the students free tickets? What? You know? I mean, like, they don't look at things the way the university looks. Well, so Utah who has, like, the Hall of Fame coach hiding in plain sight, right?

Kyle Whittingham, I think like this. We're talking a no-brainer, Hall of Fame or situation. At some point, he's not going to be the coach anymore. And that, to me, is when the private equity gets fun, when they're out here, like, you know, we did the math on this. And this really is valued as like a two and a half million dollar job. And they're like, you can't do that. Like, you and I both work at ESPN. I'll give people a little look behind the curtain there.

When you work there, there's somebody who, like, runs a computer and comes up with what a salary should be for any given job. So I had done a show called High Noon and they were paying me like they pay you when you host a TV show, all right? I was not going to be hosting a TV show anymore. They ran the numbers and the numbers came up with a number that I would not have taken. and I do recall that the number cruncher ran it by one of the bosses, and I was told that the boss told them,

how about I just go take a shit on his porch? Huh? Because that's what this is, right? Like, we're not doing that. That's just not, that's not appropriate for the relationship that we have cultivated over the years. Private equity is shitting on everybody's porch every time. Yeah. They crank out a number.

And it's, like, I guess it comes, it's going to come down to, like, strength coaches. and somebody's going to have to explain. No, no, no, no, no. The strength coach is, like, really, really important. It's like the lifeblood of the operation, lifeblood of the setup. What do you guys think about that?

They're going to be going through that item after item after item. Like, what do you need a new weightlifting machine for? And some of the time, they're probably going to be right. Right. But nobody's trying to hear this. Yeah. Yeah, no, this will be a great marriage of, you know, Utah and then it's going to happen elsewhere, I think, obviously.

but the natural inefficiencies and arcana that come with college sports of trying to explain. It is truly like grabbing somebody from Kazakhstan and trying to explain why, you know, this is why how football works and this is why an athletic department is organized the way it is. And they're like, that doesn't make any sense. And that's going to be like that with private equity. But it's also going to be like, but we think we understand everything. So here's our algorithm and it says that you're overspending here, here and here. and that's going to be an interesting dance to see how all that works out.

No, trying to explain college athletics to people, like if you ever have to try to explain to somebody from another country, or if you've had the joy that I have in my Spanish lessons with my Colombian teacher, trying to explain it to her in a language I don't really speak. Yeah, man, it's not like, it's not playing. But you made an interesting point earlier where we were talking about, like, Notre Dame is the school that can pull off being an independent. And you're like, Michigan is a,

another one that perhaps could. Ohio State, I think it would be another example. But this is germane because of the private equity push for the Big Ten, where everybody, including Ohio State, seems to be with it, except for Michigan and USC. And Michigan seems to be at least threatening the idea that they could go independent. And I agree with you that I think they could because there are so many of those, like, it's not going to turn out. Like when Texas A&M left the Big 12 and Texas says, fine, we'll just never play you. again and they could hold firm to that. Ohio State is not holding firm to never playing Michigan

again. I don't care. Michigan could join the USSR. They're not going to not play them anymore, right? All those schools, I think, would come back and find a way. Like, I think all these big 12 schools, they'd love to go play Texas again if it comes down, you know, if it comes down to it. They're not going to walk away from it. Sure, sure. No, that, you know, I mean, it would be the ultimate ego test, basically, like for Ohio State, if Michigan walks away, they, they're in. inclination in there would be fine. We don't need you. But oh, they really do. They both need each other and they would have to come back and play. Kansas and Missouri are now back playing in football and basketball. They were both like, you know, I mean, Kansas is like, screw you. You left. And

Missouri's like, we'll be fine. And then they're like, no, we better make this happen. And this, that's, that's very small potatoes compared to the giant potatoes of Ohio State, Michigan. So that's one of those things where there would be some brinksmanship involved. But if I were Michigan, like I would call the bluff and say, no, you'll play us. You will play us. Well, also the Kansas Missouri thing points out what I think often gets lost in this is, man, we're in this for a good time, right? Like you are a Missoual love.

I remember the happiest I've heard you sound of the phone, 2007, you were the parking lot at Kansas. The one time Kansas Missouri has really meant things, right? Like that was a national championship type of game. people are in this for a good time. Like they're here to enjoy this. What I always say here is Alabama's the only school playing for a national championship every year.

Everybody else is just kind of in this for vibes. And the money has gotten so big that people have lost sight of this in such a way that Utah's the first to take this private equity money. Somebody else in the Big 12, you would think, would then in the name of competition, be the ones to go. And then it goes and trickles down.

And you're right. They're going to be people walking around there with clipboards, with glasses on, asking all kinds of weird, uncomfortable questions about what's going on here. I honestly, that would be, that would be the documentary that needs to be made. Following PE around campus,

as these people are wanting to tear down everything and sitting in those meetings. And again, having, they're explaining, well, what you're doing doesn't make sense. And then the, the athletic department is saying, well, here's why we're doing, it even though it doesn't make sense. You know, and just the trying, the understanding

the natural illogic of college sports versus the very cold logic of this is how we want to make money. Right. And it taps on one more thing I want to ask you about before we go because of your particular expertise. And so for people who do not know, Pat 40 is no longer like the biggest name in his own household. He is Pat 40, father of Shannon 40 Olympic swimmer, right? This is what Pat was. So you have an insight into the

Olympic sport world of college sports. And they swore to us that if you had to start paying players, that that world would fall apart. It seems very clear that that is not true. But private equity, ooh, now we're talking about something different. Yeah, that's, I think, when the wolf's actually at the door. And I am very proprietary of college sports, I mean, Olympic sports, probably more so than most of my colleagues. And I get it. Sure. I mean, I think you have to experience it maybe to appreciate it on a different level. But that's when I think you would have people saying, well, we've got to change the number of minimum sports it takes to be in Division

1. We've got to lower that. And that's where the pressure, I think, would come. But there is no doubt that if you are looking at ways to run an efficient athletic department, if the sole goal is profit, not just revenue, but profit, as you pointed out, then you're saying, why the hell do we have a soccer team we're paying that we're spending this much money on and volleyball team and so forth and so on because that's they don't make money and quite frankly actually if you look most places the biggest loser is women's basketball nobody's going to cut women's basketball but they're going to look elsewhere downstream and say well we're going to

get rid of this this and this and that's where there there will be a tension point there i think in how college sports is run given if if the private equity gets a bigger and bigger say in things There's going to be some moron who really pushes that women's sports things. There's like somebody who just can't read the room and thinks that they're going to shut down women's basketball, right? Like you're not going to do it at Yukon. I imagine that Tennessee is still making good money because they used to sell a lot of tickets at Tennessee in that giant arena that they have. But there's somebody that's going to walk in and be like, yeah, what they're going to do about it. Right.

Okay. Yeah, yeah. It's just not going to have it. They'll be fine. They'll get over it. And they go look out that window. and it is not going to look the way they thought. But the other thing that happens is some man with a lot of money at this program has a daughter who plays insert sport here or a son who plays insert sport here.

And that person is going to have a giant problem with what it is that you're talking about. Never mind the fact that the way the Utah thing has been presented is though there's going to be some booster who will then have an, they have a share in this new operation. Can you imagine what booster world would be at? say at the University of Texas with all those big money boosters and try to figure out who gets to have a piece? No, that's the thing. There are some places there are not just several cooks in the kitchen, but they're opinionated cooks and they do have more money than God. And you bring enough of them in and you have the private equity element.

I mean, there's going to be, I would like to be the athletic director who is trying to ride this tiger. You know, right. You just keep hanging on because when you fall off, the tiger eats you. And when you make it about investment, like when these dudes are just throwing money at programs, they just tricking, right? When they have a share on it, now they're pimping, right? Like, now that you get a piece of the money, now this, this doesn't feel like the most charming thing about this whole world is there are these rich people who have nothing better

to do with their money than to like make their teams better. That's just what they enjoy. They put your name up on something, right? like maybe we'll name the hot tub after you, all of these things. Now these guys are going to be coming in there asking about their return. That's not what this is about. No, right. You know, that's the thing is, I mean, forever college sports has been predicated.

The funding of it has been predicated on rich old guys that are like, yeah, I just want my alma mater to win. But you add a different element to it if it becomes an actual profit or loss investment that they're tied to. And I don't think people understand this either. I haven't checked the data in a while, but you used to look at when the USA Today puts out that list of the budgets for all of those programs. And you look up and like one year I remember looked at Georgia, something like 30% of their budget was from donations. Like that these are not, these things don't make money in the way that you think that they make money. They only make money because people give them money.

Yeah, no. And I mean, that's where it is interesting, I think, too, the donor fatigue. Like if you are sitting there and you are Joe Mega Millionaire, and you've given to Georgia five different major donations, and you look at that phone and you see that number pop up again, you're like, oh, no, not again. Like, really? What is it you want me to do now?

I think there is an element of where they're juggling chainsaws here, and eventually the chainsaw may cut your arm off. Did you see Troy Aikman say that he donated money to a player who may or. or may not be Dante Moore, who is not the quarterback at UCLA, Troy Eggman's alma mater anymore. He is at Oregon,

but Troy Akeman said he donated the money to get him and, quote, didn't even get a thank you card, which is the most old man thing Troy Akeman could have said, and he said he's never doing it again. That was, it was quaint, right? It was actually, I need a thank you card for this. Somebody somewhere, that's where you get a staffer at Oregon or at UCLA to say,

just right, just forge something from Dante saying thank you. It's good at it did, man. Put out the thank you card. Do you think there's somebody at OU who gets a list of like former players who are the NFL and every now and then accidentally calls Troy Aitman to ask for buddy? Without question. Absolutely. Yeah.

Some 24 year old like, who's Troy Aikman? Right. Hi, Mr. Aikman. Hello? Hello? Right. Like he called Troy Aikman and he hangs up. He calls Jamel Holloway and doesn't understand why he can't help.

help. Like, what's the issue here? Like, we don't, we don't get what's going on. But that, ladies and gentlemen, is Pat 40. Check him out at s.com. We got the 40 minutes. We got the 40 yard dash basketball season coming. I appreciate you joining us, my man. My pleasure as always, Beaumonti. Great to catch up with you. Yes, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us here on the right time. We do this four times a week. Ryan Brumley handled everything behind the scenes. Thank you, sir. Hit our voicemail line 3-2, 3-9, 6776767. Remember follow the right time subscribe like rate us review us give us five stars you only give us four stars i'm inclined to believe you are hater we'll talk to you guys in a couple of days take it easy