The Right Time with Bomani Jones - Travonne Edwards Joins for Pacers-Thunder Predictions, SGA’s Legacy, Caitlin Clark’s Impact | 6.4

Episode Date: June 4, 2025

Bomani Jones is joined by Travonne Edwards, host of 'The G.O.T.E.' podcast with Seth Curry, to discuss all things NBA Finals related. The show starts off with Bo saying it's a very convenient time for Travonne to be living in Indiana with the Pacers in the NBA Finals and the Caitlin Clark experience with the Fever (00:39). They move onto the NBA Finals where they debate if Shai Gilgeous-Alexander is a true superstar (8:09), how important the Thunder are to Oklahoma (18:46) and what the Pacers need to do defensively to potentially win this series (29:54). They wrap up the show talking about certain players that should've had their number retired, like Carmelo Anthony (32:40), and what Travonne sees going on in Indianapolis during the Caitlin Clark craze. (44:02) . . . Subscribe to The Right Time with Bomani Jones on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts and follow the show on Instagram, Twitter, and Tik Tok for all the best moments from the show. Download Full Podcast Here: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6N7fDvgNz2EPDIOm49aj7M?si=FCb5EzTyTYuIy9-fWs4rQA&nd=1&utm_source=hoobe&utm_medium=social Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-right-time-with-bomani-jones/id982639043?utm_source=hoobe&utm_medium=social Follow The Right Time with Bomani Jones on Social Media: http://lnk.to/therighttime Subscribe to Supercast for Ad-Free Episodes: https://righttime.supercast.com/ Support the Show: Discover faster, more reliable search with Perplexity today. Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at perplexity.com! https://pplx.ai/bomani-jones Download the DraftKings Pick Six app NOW and use code BOMANI. Better payouts. Bigger wins. Only with Pick6 from DraftKings. The Crown is yours. Download Cash App Today: https://capl.onelink.me/vFut/icdnkphp #CashAppPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the right time. A Wave Original presented by perplexity. My name is Beaumani Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater.

It is that time of week where we have a guest joined us. Check out the Goat podcast, G-O-T-E, greatest of their era with Seth Curry and my man. Trivon Edwards. What's going on, man? Bo, what up? What up? been a minute. I'm just saying, man, you're ready for the finals? This boy, this boy trade a mood to Indiana on us, right? So he wound up in the epicenter of it, you know? He out there

checking out Caitlin Clark. He had a reason she got hurt. He bad luck for them, but the Pacers made it to the finals. You know what I'm saying? Hey, man, I think that was the tradeoff, man. The irony of me moving right before the Knicks and Pacers matched up and then the Pacers make the finals for the first time in 25 years, second in franchise history. And, you know, When I was in New York, the Liberty won, and the Knicks got good. So I'm taking all credit for this, man. I'm sorry. You're a good little charm, man.

Oh, man. But this is going to be a fun one, man. I know everybody's like, okay, see, okay, see. But I definitely want to talk about, you know, what I've been seeing, what is the finals preview of what we can get and may expect. And peel back the layer, man. This man set up his old appearance. He went and laid it out.

That's the thing that happens when you do a podcast with somebody that's been hosting their own podcast. They get into all the stuff already. It's kind of like when I have Taylor Rooks on here. It stopped being me interviewing with her and it turned into an interview of me. Hey, you know, this is what we do. This is normal conversation for us.

Hey, man, I just got to tell you this right fast because somebody sent me a link to it. They sent me a link to some boy at Iowa that ran a 994,400. hundred meter dash because you know and you know university i would have been cranking out these super white boys right maybe putting in defensive backs uh cooper de jean uh riley moss but i'm looking at this white boy whose name well they say he a white boy calin walker calen with a k but i'm looking at his hair brun i'm not i'm not positive that this is quite the same i mean i ain't so sure about he's mixed

he's yeah i ain't so sure about cooper the gene either if we're going to be honest about it I got a former student that used to be a triple jumper. And, you know, I'm not saying he looked like this, but they might be keen. Yeah. Hey, is something in a cornstalk. Man, what it is is they've just decided. Like, I said this about Iowa's program before. It's not terribly different than the HBCU.

HBCU's for the longest, and I don't know what the stats are now, but the HBCU would turn out more like PhDs, doctors, all in that stuff. Because with black people working with black people, they were more likely to see your potential. or they were less likely to be encumbered by the head trash that will hold them back from believing what it was that you was capable of, right? And I think that's the same thing going on with Iowa.

You know what I'm saying? They made the decision. They're not going to let low self-esteem stop them. They can be fast. They will be fast. Watch them run. Hey, man, Rocky. Trago, training.

Getting to the bag. Yes. So I ask you this about like with the finals, let's start with the Pacers. you know, with you being there. What I find interesting about this team is that they've done something different that you rarely see,

which is they started slow, right? And it's easy to forget about a team once they start slow. They made the move and got Siakum. Now, six years ago, Siakum looked like he was on his way to maybe being like a legit top 15 player in the NBA. He made all it, it's 13tham all the NBA a couple of times,

but it still never felt that way. Indiana plugged him in here and where he seems to be absolutely best as your number two option. He won one ring is the number two option. He's the number two guy again this year. But what have you seen? And again, for those who don't know, Trey's a college point guard, he knows as much basketball as anybody I've ever come across.

Like what are you seeing that's working other than, boy, they sure do play fast and hit shots. Well, I think the deceiving thing is that Tyrese is number one, but it's really Siakum. and the idea that he gets to blend in the background so much. Tyrese gets to be the face. Tyrese gets to do all the other stuff. Tyrese can chill and have an inconsistent game.

But Siakum's the steady, consistent guy, right? Leading the team and scoring. And what's really been happening, honestly, especially people forgot about Siakum, especially in that Nick series. Oh, how does he have a game like that? You let Siakam, this guy's an all-star. This guy's an all-star. And people are just like, nah, we ain't buying it.

it. We don't know what's going on, and he can turn it on whenever he wants. But obviously, we are, you know, forced and marketed Tyrese Halliburton all the time, right? And the frustrating part about it, and you mentioned me being a college point guard, I'm watching the game. And I'm like, Halliburton has to figure out what type of player he wants to be. He sits back so long. It took him 10 minutes in the game to take three attempts. And you look at the average NBA point guard now, they're gunning. That's tension. That's 8. to 10 shots in the first quarter. You look at Brunton, Brunton's taking 27 shots. Halliburton waits to the late third, early 4th to start getting it going and he'll have,

he'll finish with 16 and 10 or, you know, 27 and 10 and 8. It just depends when he finds the groove, but like he's just not aggressive enough. He's trying to get everybody involved. But yeah, man, it's just really frustrating that Halliburton's not being assertive, right? He sits back. He's allowing other guys to get involved. But like the lead is so. big man and out the way where these are how they lose games. And it's just kind of like they really need him to get it going. But the beauty of it beating New York, I still understand, I respect him as a good point guard and good player in this league top 20 to say. But the hate is unwarranted. I think it's just because people see him off the court as darky and not respecting the in between

the lines. I think the hate is unwarranted and similarly unwarranted, though not in the same magnitude, is the idea that he is a superstar. Yeah. I don't, and I'm curious about this, because you do this podcast with Seth Carey where you do the greatest of their era, right, and what comes with it. I am stingy with the title of superstar. Like, I've had to, I've had to adjust what it means, but for me, Superstar meant we have a chance to win the title first and foremost, because you play for us. Not because of anything else, right? Like, there were at different points in time.

Like, so, for example, to me, there was a point in time where Dwight Howard was a superstar. Because in 2009, the Orlando Magic got to the finals, you can say they had the big guys that can make shots, da, da, da, nah, they had Dwight Howard. And everything else went around that, right? I don't feel like Halliburton is that sort of guy. Like, I think we throw this around so willy-nilly in who these guys are. He is an excellent player. He is a very good player.

He has shown that perhaps he can be the best player on a team that goes to the finals. But to me, that is not the same thing as a superstar. Like generally speaking, it's five, maybe six superstars in the league at a time. That's where I'm at. Bo, I just call them All-Stars. Yeah. That's it. You know what I mean?

We're just, I'm going to say, really dope. You make $50 million a year being an All-Star. You're respected in the space. That means you're part of the top 24. You are an All-Star. to be a superstar is globally known. Like that means not just China, but you go to Europe and people are, hey, you know what I mean? Like you have a brand name.

People actually want to buy the product you do. It's outside of the region you play. And people fill the seats up to see. Like Shea Gilgis Alexander is a superstar. We're getting to that point. I think so. I think so because at this point, it's more of he's. he's worked really hard on the off the court to get to that point.

You get what I'm saying? I don't think his basketball play gets him there. It's the other stuff. It is the more younger than us. Younger than our group have bought into the whole superstar label for Shea. So he's a fascinating case to me because his play says superstar, right? I mean, he's the MVP. Yokin's put up another one of those top 15, all-time, advanced staff.

type seasons. And Shea was right up there with him. They're the best team in the NBA. He's the best player on the best team in the NBA. They're about to have home court in the finals, all of those things. And I can't quite bring myself there. And yeah, off the court. It's Oklahoma City. But I hate what Kevin Durant played in Oklahoma City. Russell Westbrook played in Oklahoma City. Like I can't, I can't just say, I mean, James Horny got facing this in Oklahoma City. No, I don't think it's directly because it's Canadian. Maybe him be a Canadian feeds into the stuff. I mean, look, man, the commercials is whack, and that's not his fault. Him and Chet and Jalen Williams, not the one whose daddy look like he went to NOM, the other one.

Like, he need to, like, they both need to go to AT&T and be like, come on, baby, you got to, you got to do better by us in this standpoint. I don't know. But like, it's an amorphous, it's an amorphous place for me. To me, and I was talking to our buddy Eddie about this one, Jason Tatum is the fringe. Maybe you got Jason Tatum as the last superstar or the first not superstar. superstar. But to me, the line is somewhere on one side of that zero on Jason Tatum's jersey. Yeah, I mean, I'm not mad at it. I just see that beyond us and the next gen who actually gets to choose, they've chose him already. Oh, so they, they bowed that. Ora, that's their thing.

He has it. And we don't see that. We look at it like, all right, dude, you're good at basketball. Hold on. What aura? What aura they talk about? I'm asking sincerely because, like, he do a lot of stuff that's hard to respect. Again, they look at it as him just, you know, the reporters looking at him. They, TikTok community, the internet is a different place, man. And I just, I just, I'm so used to, like, actually seeing cool people and not saying that he's not cool. But they have established this whole thing of like there's a certain thing of almost almost a standlike behavior behind it. and I've also seen people asking me, when is this shoe coming out?

And I'm shocked. I like the shoe, but I'm shocked that certain people that I don't think would wear the shoe is asking for the shoe. So I think he's broken through, Beau. Like, we just ain't got there yet to see it. And once he wins, it's definitely about to be the stamp. Yeah, I mean, look, if he wins the championship, he's the best player on the team. And, I mean, it's possible they could walk to this.

I mean, I'm not even necessarily saying sweep, like a five game or an emphatic six. Like, this is on the board. I got the six, but everybody is gentlemen sweep, thunder. But they can also be good for a long time. Like, like, like, in fact, let's do this. Let's make sure we get to the actual stuff before we get to the other stuff, right? They play in 48 minutes of hell out there on defense. They've made the decision that we're going to play physical on this and they figured out that you can get away with it. And boom, it has been done. So it has been done. This is what they're going to do. I still think they have. have a slight problem in that I still feel like they got one guy that can get his own shot for real.

And that can still turn into a thing because as well as they play defense, Indiana plays a lot of offense and they got a lot of size, right? Like they've got enough functional size to make some things happen, which I think the thunder part of their defense also is they got Lou Dord out there looking like an outside linebacker, right? Like they got length and they got a couple dudes that can muscle you. And I feel like Indiana can stand up to that. Well, they have have the three-headed monster, right? You got Dorek, Caruso, and Kays and Wallace, and they're running a blitz, but they have the luxury to run that blitz because they have a big point guard. They also have a big. But what you mentioned, I think that would work in the Pacer's favor.

Not only is Carlis has the actual advantage, I think no one has been able to point out that Mark Diaz faced against interim coaches and then got Chris Finch, right? But this is a different beast, because Carlisle, he don't use his bench. He's going to try different people, and I think that makes the series interesting. A lot of people don't include the coaches. They only include the players. And when you think about Halliburton average in 18 points per game on 46% shooting,

you think about, oh, they're just going to throw him at him and take him out the game. I think the keys to winning the game is Halliburton holding onto the ball and not making Nimmar the primary ball handler. He has to stay effective. And if they can swing the ball, play the bigs off the court. That Chet Iheart can't be out there on a slow lineup. They got to go small, which helps them because Miles Turner actually runs. Yes. Don't you remember that for three years, those three years, Miles Turner was out there. Wait, somebody was supposed to go social

trade for him. He's supposed to be a Laker. Every year, he's supposed to be a Laker. Every year, in Indiana held on to him. First of all, he is a steel at the salary that he is making. Protect a real. Not for long. Threes. At that, well, yeah, well, he's free age this year, but they got him right now as steel man. And he was supposed to be the guy for somebody else and they stuck around and hung with it long enough. Then now they hear. I mean, they almost had DeAndre Aden. They almost had DeAndre Aiden and he got pulled back by Phoenix. Talk about dodging a bullet. You know what I mean? Hold on. Can you imagine Rick Carlisle and DeAndre Aiden? I think Carlisle would leave the Pacers like he left the Mavs. Well, well, he ran somewhat afoul of people on the Mabbs.

who could get him out of there. I don't think that Diadre Aiton would have had the ability to mobilize and get the regulators on Rick Carlisle. It just would have been miserable for everybody. Yeah, now that's true. That's true when you really think about that. But yeah, man, the Thunder, you know, Shea averages 39 points per game against the Pacers. You know what I mean?

On 55% shooting, but this is the playoffs. Pacers have no perimeter defense. and slow him down. And it's truly going to, you know, take some effort. They can't play in the drop because all those dudes can shoot. They're going to have to really try some real effort and move them puppies, move them feet, whatever you want to call it, and really be aggressive. I mean, get back to the physical plague because this is some real middle of America hoops

right here. And if you are true basketball fan, you locked in. And you can't say, hey, it's no stars involved. It's stars involved. And it's just that's your team not playing. And as you mentioned before, people are haters. You know what I mean? That's just the harsh reality of it.

Tom Haberstrow, our buddy, brought up the free throw conversation, right, about Shay's attempts. And everybody's like, oh, he's a free throw merchant. Stoos ranked 160 season all time. Yeah. But here's my, I have counterpoint on that. Okay. Okay.

He may not be a true foul merchant. But it ain't for lack of effort. I'm definitely trying to get there. It ain't because he ain't trying. The problem isn't that he, the problem is that he tries, not how effective he is at it. He'd be doing all that shit

and throwing his head back and all of this stuff and all that faking and flopping and all that. He does it. It is amazing that he can't parlay it into actual free throws, which makes it far more offensive. One of my buddies, I don't know if he wants to be named,

on this, but I won't put his name on it. He may have said it on his own show. But he was like, I wasn't even here for the Kobe system. My damn show ain't here for the Hardin system. Oh, yeah. This is a school of Hardin. This is school of heart. And so that's the thing when the pushback is, but he doesn't get to the free throw line. That's not the point that we are making. You see what he be out there doing. Oh, it's tough for me because I have, I've, the postseason has made me feel not as good about Jalen Brunson and it has made me feel not as good about shame. The whole world got sour on him. Yeah.

For me to see it up close and personal during a game that count, like it was a rebound, right? He like, sure, a bump. He almost fell three feet away. I said, wow. I get it. I get it. Whatever it takes to win, but this is a bad. No, no, I don't believe it whatever it takes to win.

and stand on your two, have some dignity about yourself. It's hard, man. Have you no pride? Your daddy is sitting right there. How does he not run out there and say, hey, man, take that monkey shit off. You embarrassing us. How do you not get out there when you see this happening? So anyway, throwing them free throw numbers at me with Shay misses the point of what it is that we're talking about.

It's not pure. Everybody sees it. It's not pure. I wish Dylan Brooks, his Canadian brother, was pletka. playing on the other team, right? I mean, Nimmer is going to be right there? Yeah, yeah, but he ain't Dylan Brooks.

I need somebody who got that in him. He defended Brunson pretty well. I will say that. He did, I'm just, but I'm not asking for somebody to defend him. I'm asking for somebody to knock him on his, oh, what they call him up in his arse. Hey, James Johnson not getting off that bench. So we ain't going to see that. We ain't going to see no oak treatment.

We ain't go see no oak treatment. You know, if James Johnson comes in a game at this stage, everybody knows what time it is. You can't even hide it. No. You can't even hide it. James Johnson has been in the league now for 16 years, by the way. Yeah. 16 years.

He's been there, right? Like, people, for those who don't know, James Johnson played in college with Jeff T. And Jeff T. Do the same job we do. Yeah. For context. Yes.

Yes. Like, no, no, no. And James Johnson, by the way, he's two years older than T. At least no, he's one year older than T. But he's not even the same age. But now we're going to, it was so funny though because, you know, my mother is from Oklahoma City, right? And I had gotten a little sour on watching the way Shea is out here doing stuff. And then I go home for the weekend. And I completely forgot the biggest thunder fan on planet Earth was there waiting on me. She ain't want to hear nothing about what I got to say. I love to hear that, man. I'm glad that mom still locked in with the thunder, bro. Oh, she ain't going to stop.

Dude, you can't understand how important that team is to somebody if they're from Oklahoma in general, but Oklahoma City in particular. Like, think about this, and you've been out there, all right? If Portland didn't have that basketball team, most people don't know nothing about what's going on there. We would talk about Nike being in Portland, like we talk about Walmart being in Bentonville, Arkansas.

Right? Like, we would, what would it be, right? Oklahoma City is not in a terribly different place. It just got the word city in it, right? Yeah. And so they got that team, and then that team got good right after they got it, and now they back there, this means something different to them. And don't forget, they've been rooting for Oklahoma football.

They're about that winning. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's the underrated part about it, right? The same way people say, oh, you live in Indiana. Bro, game three was the same day as Indy 500. You know how passionate people were? Bro, we got off work on Friday because of carb day. I didn't even know what carb day was.

Is it carburetor day? Yes. I said, wait. No, y'all are too locked in. Rally flags everywhere. So it's like Mardi Gras. Yes, it is a big deal, bro. But like sports, I ain't been here for the coach yet.

But basketball is here. It's here. And they don't, none of the internet jokes, they really locked in. They're rooting for their team. team, they're going hard, they don't care. You know what I mean? Like the whole town is locked in and rooting for their guys. This is a place, for real.

I mean, look, man, they got a championship in front of them, bro. Like, it is very winnable. Even if they are not as good as the thunder, it is winnable. And I think you made a very important point about Carlisle because I think this era, basketball on every level, has so greatly de-emphasized the coach. Oh, 100%. It's all about the player because... It's all about...

I mean, that is another LeBron James legacy, by the way, right? Like, we... I guess Larry Bird kind of fits in the same category, but we don't associate LeBron with a coach. There are very few players as good as LeBron is that we don't associate with at least one coach. Like Tyrone Lewis not mentioned in that mix. Eric Sposter's not mentioned.

Yeah, yeah. You know, Frank Vogel, who? Right, but he is... LeBron stands above the coach in a way that... That's kind of crazy. I never looked at it that way. Yeah, Howard Bryan makes this point all the time, right? Like the idea of the head of the spear, right?

It's gone with player and coach at this point. That's part of the LeBron legacy. I'm not saying that's good or bad. I'm just telling you that's what it is. And so we don't think about these things nearly as much. But like, we used to have far more passionate opinions about who could and could not coach. Doug, Phil Jackson. If Phil Jackson was even considering your team, you felt good.

Like, hey, come here. You were like recruiting him as if he was. as a player. Right. But think about the coaches that, like, think about the way we talked, for example, about Vinny Del Negro, right? Just think about how we talked about Vinny Del Negro. Terrible.

Terrible. Like, we don't have anybody we talk about in those terms anymore. And hey, look, maybe all the coaches just all got better, right? But we just don't have, the coach just not carry the same weight that he used to. And you're right. Carlisle can go. Now, granted, he had a long time in Dallas where they ain't getting nothing done. But he did it with Detroit.

They just fired him because people thought he was a jerk. You can do some things having that guy. Remember, he won a championship on a team whose second best player was Tyson Champ. I mean, again, he's been counted out. He, if anything, he coming in with the most confidence. And I think his, I mean, the beauty of it is that he don't have a superstar that's pushing and trying to outshine him. He's being coachable.

Everybody getting in line with. with him because they trust them. And it's important because Rick Carlisle is calling every play. Every play. Rick Carlisle tried to call every play for Jason Kidd. Yeah. And not a rookie Jason Kidd. No, this is bad.

Jason kid at 150 years old. I've seen some shit. You know what I mean? So I get it, bro. I like, I like it. I like it when you actually highlight the coaches. Now, Mark has a chance to. establish his legacy there and go from it there and be like, all right, cool, here we go.

I beat Rick Carlisle on the finals. That's a good, that's a good resume, you know, blip on there and say, oh, there we go. Who else? Who's next? You know what I mean? But when you really think about the path to this, it's not about the teams. It's about these actual coaches that he's face. You know what I mean?

And the same thing with Carlisle, like Tibbs, there's a level to Tibbs. Tims has won as an assistant coach, but then, you know, T. He kind of exploded them a little bit saying, hey, he don't call offense. He just say, damn. And you could see it in that series because Jalen Brunton, they rode the hot hand all year to finally ran into something that actually can come back and coach. I have to point out that you keep calling that man, Mark. Oh, it's a mic.

You keep on, you know, it's Mark. It's Mark. Is that Dagono that you ain't really trying to play no games with? That was the part of Daganos, what you weren't trying to play no dags, man. You just kept calling him Mark. Dagono, man. Mark D. Mark D.

Degano, man. Dagono got the black community in the strangled. Dagono, that's what he did. He like onto Tocumpo, man, for a minute. But you know the wildest thing about Altonpoh is that's not actually his name. Nance Ade, right? His name is out of the bonko, I believe. If you look at a clip and hear Yon and say it, he says it that way.

they Greekify his name, like, you know, all the stuff about him not have a passport and everything else. The Nigerian part, he should have that. Yeah, so the Nigerians, but to get the Greek passport and everything, they wouldn't just let him be himself. Yeah. They had to adapt his name to fit. Well, that, yo, that had me be like, yo, maybe we need to start giving America a few more props. You know what I'm saying? They're not going to make you do that.

Yeah, they ain't forcing it, bro. Like, come on, man. Could you imagine changing, like, somebody with a name you know what I'm saying Obuale right and they say you're going to be Omar or Oscar yes what? No we're not doing it

I'm imagining somebody trying to tell that to what's my man's name Akeem Elijah Wai we're going to change you're going to what your new name is no my name is my name That's what we're going to get. All right, we got Javid Elvers.

Go come back, talk a little bit more about the NBA finals. Also find out what he's got up there since he's in Indiana on the Caitlin Clark phenomenon coming up next. This show is brought to you by Perplexity. Perplexity is an AI-powered answer engine that searches the internet in real time to give you fast, high-quality answers with sources. Unlike legacy search engines that respond with the list of links, perplexity skips straight to the answers you need, explained and easy to understand everyday language. language with sources and citations. That's right, Bo. We often use perplexity on the show to look up things, confirm things. Just this week, we used perplexity to look up who was on the Steelers coaching staff

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Okay, okay, C and five? I'm going six. You're going six? Yeah, I'll give them two. I'm more likely, if they're going to win it, I'm more likely to say five, right? Like, I still think closing it out on somebody else's court is a lot. We just saw that happen with Indiana, where they got run off the floor by the Knicks in game five. We saw that with the Knicks get run off the floor by the Celtics.

We know Jason Tatum in game five. but what would have to happen for Indiana to pull this out? I think that they would have to, honestly, I think they would just have to just kind of keep the game close and let it be decided and towards the end, right? Like where you really have to like dog this out. You know what I'm saying? I'm not speaking any injuries into this,

but I think Shay would literally have to be struggling. Like a James Harden, 2012 situation. Yeah, I mean, it's just like you can't throw a rock in the ocean, 16 points. If you can keep Shay down to like at least 16 under 20, I think that's even tough. But like keeping him under like under 20, they got a shot. So I thought you made a very good point earlier that the thunder can play really big because Chet can face the basket and go outside. And so you can have Isaiah Hardinstein who was both at Isaiah and a Hardinstein inside. And then you've got a seven footer who can block shots and. play on the perimeter, which is the other level when we start talking about what they're doing on defense is, okay, that's a lot of size to be out there. And you don't have to go small to play against teams that go smallish because of what Chek can do in the versatility that he has, right? But that's still a lot of young dudes. And I guess you could make a similar point about

the Pacers, but like the Pacers have Seacom, who I think him being a champion lands different within me than Alice Caruso being a champion. Seacom was a dude that they had to lean on to get that championship. Caruso was a new deputy. Yeah, he was actually a, he actually had plays ran for him. Yeah. Right. You know what I mean? Like Caruso is the 50-50 guy. Like it's the loose ball. It's the commercial, it's the commercially champion. Right. He's diving for the ball. Have to have it. Yeah. Yeah. What will he take for us to get a fight between Alice Caruso and T.J. McConnell? I got to have it. I won't happen.

Won't happen. But I, but I, but I, but I, but I, but I think for, for middle of America, is definitely the poster of, yeah, that's my type of guy. Hey, you know what I mean? I'm going to tell you right now for both of them dudes, if they play their cards right in this series and their team winds up winning a championship, there's a jersey retirement in their future if they want it. Mm-hmm. They just got to play their cards.

A couple car lots too. I'm just saying the Thunder retired Nick Collison's jersey. Mr. Thunder. They did that. They did that. They retired Nick Collison's jersey. T.J. McConnell, you do it right. You go out there, you go hard.

Them amber waves of grain, they can be yours. You know what I'm saying? I don't know though, man, because I looked up in the rafters and it's very thin. I know, but they ain't got no title. It's just Reggie and McGinnis. That's kind of wild to me, right? Like, I was shocked. A lot of people that play there.

Y'all have a long discussion to have about Jersey retirement. I think it's a fascinating conversation, how it's different from team to team. But I was stunned to find out that they did not retire Rick Smith's jersey there. And he was in the building. Right. He was there forever. He played on championship teams. He was there for the entirety of that run. And I'm not saying that Rick Smith was like a Hall of Fame player, but I would have thought for that team that they would have done it.

So like there's two levels of it. You get a team like the Lakers that you have to remember that for the longest, the Lakers didn't have all those championships. Like the Celtics had all those championships. And so they retired everybody's jersey, right? They retired jerseys just because you made them feel good. The Lakers require you to be a, a Hall of Famer and then use that to backdoor Michael Cooper in and retire his jersey, right?

But they have that high standard, Hall of Fame. Otherwise, we're not stringing your jersey up. Some teams, like, I feel like Memphis. Memphis is going to retire all four of those guys' jerseys, right? Conley, Tony Allen's already up. Zach Randolph's already up. Marcus Hall's going to be up. Because those are foundational building block figures for that franchise. Like, that's what they have to love. I think that's how it should be. See, that's what I'm saying. If you're a foundational guy, you created the identity of what we have. Right.

Do these people love you? Like, that's what it comes down to for me. No matter what it is, no matter how it's, like, do the people love you? And maybe the people don't love Rick Smith's, right? Like, maybe I got that completely messed up. But if the people love them, they love them. Oh, they do. They love them.

See, that's what I'm saying. I'm shocked. Y'all ain't want enough to be out here. I feel that. way about the Knicks. Oh. Like the idea that... They do their whole, they do their whole alumni crazy.

The idea... But the idea that John Starks and John Starks and Charles Oakley do not have retired jerseys for the Knicks to me is... Bernard King does not have a retired jersey. Y'all let Julius motherfucking Randall wear Bernard King's number. Are you serious? Hey. And I love, I just, you know, spoiler a rich alert, man.

I got to talk to talk to big. game James and he compared Bernard's King game like up and down to Janus. And I was like, that's interesting. He said, man, he'll beat you up. He'll beat you up like on offense though and getting to the bag.

So, you know, I didn't know too much about Bernard King outside of his bullet years. But he's talking about. Hold, hold, hold on. Keep in mind the bullets years are after, after terrible knee injuries with 1980s sports medicine techniques. Yeah.

Yeah, no, no, no. the way people talk about Bernard King is different. And Bernard King is from the city, right? So there's an argument that Bernard King is not a Hall of Famer. I think they got in, but you can argue he's not. That's fine. The Knicks not retiring his jersey, the way that Knicks fans talk about him, to me, is absurd and insane.

So they won't do it for McConnell because they too stingy, right? But, man, he get out there scrap it up with a championship, keep doing that for some years. Could have been you. Could have been you. Like San Antonio, for example, retire Bruce Bowen's jersey. Y'all love that man.

That's my homie. That's to be clear. That's my guy. But y'all love them. Y'all should, that is what it should be. That's how I see. Kurt Heinrich in Chicago.

I mean, it's a list of these guys when you really think about who gave their blood, sweat, and tears to the franchise. Well, Chicago's going to have the tricky jersey retirement and they're going to do it, I think. But they might wait longer

than they should, and that's Derek Rose. I think it's happening next season. Oh, it is? Yeah, I think so. I think he, yeah. Because remember, it got weird. It did definitely got weird. It did definitely got weird.

They let Anthony Morrow wear number one in the fans that did not like that. Yo, I mean, that's kind of like, you kind of got to read the room, though. Well, no, but I've talked about this with Denver. So they can never retire Carmetto's jersey now. Yeah. Because they gave it to Yokish, but they gave it to Anthony Randolph. Yeah. What? I mean, okay, see, did PJ Dozier, 35.

But hold on, no. This is my thing, though, with Carmelo and the fact that you did it twice. They retired Metumbo's jersey. Rest in peace. But Metumbo played there for five years, and they won that one series. Mello, come on, man, you can't do this. Like, this is, this to me is just an absurd idea notion. But yeah, like the Clippers have nobody's jersey retired because L-O-L-Y and how. But now I think they have three I think they have three that they have to retire. Chris Paul, Blake Griffin and Diadre Jordan.

Like to me, if I'm running that, Chris Paul might be the greatest clipper. There's no question he's the greatest clipper. And my thing is you gotta do it. If for no other reason, then damn, how long you're gonna say ain't none of our players shit? All our players ain't shit.

Why I want to play there? It can't just be all about the money. Do you know the all-time leading scorer in that franchise's history? Is it Ron Harper? It's a guy named Randy Smith. You ever heard of Randy Smith? The white guy. No, he's black. Oh, no. I don't know. It sounded like he would be, though, right? But no, he's a black guy. He's the sneaky all-time leading scorer. Do you know who the all-tile leading scorer is in the history of the Nets? I'll give you a hint. He's an active player. Uh, who you want, Katie? Brooke Lopez. Oh, yeah. Yeah, well, it's Brooke Lopez. But how wild is that? You know, like,

Yeah. But even with that in mind, the Nets have retired jerseys. Yeah. I get it. I get it. I get it, man. Yeah, it's interesting. Because I think Orlando is doing the ring of honor instead of putting them up in the rafters. I don't know. I mean, they, they to me have three no, they have four no-brainers to me, right? Shack, Penny. Okay, I law Penny played there. We was here, dog. We was here, dog. We remember. The impact. Yeah. Shack, Penny, Tracy McGrady, and Dwight Howard. Dwight Howard is, Dwight Howard is Mr. Magic, whether you like it or not. Shaq was a better player. Yeah, that's fine.

Dwight Howard, they're longer, racked up more accolade. Like, he's the guy. And so I love to go around. But in the end, I always feel like it's important to note, we don't get to decide what's important to the franchise and more importantly to the fans. I just think it's wild when it's a guy that the fans clearly love. and you don't do this. So with these varying standards and how pettiness comes in,

Carmelo Anthony is probably going to go down as the greatest player to not have his jersey retired anywhere. Kind of like Alice Rodriguez in baseball. He doesn't, huh? Is it because, like, they moved around so much? For Rodriguez, I think it's just because people don't like him. Okay, valid. I think people like Carmelo, though.

That's the crazy thing about it. That's what I'm saying. I think people like him. Nix fans can be a little. little weird about it. But they're weird about most of the stuff, right? They are, but they wanted to build a statue for Jalen Brunson. I said Pat Ewing don't got one.

You know what I mean? Y'all ain't won a title of 52 years. And you want Jalen Brunson to have a statue? And you only have two. Hey, look, man, Madison Square Garden, quietly. Not a building of champions. Since the year 1940, the two teams, I call it 1941 to be safe. Since the year of 1941, the two teams that play in Madison Square Garden have three championships.

The Rangers have won the championships. The Rangers won the championship in 94. The Knicks in 70 and 73. That's it. That's crazy. Shows to Clyde. Shouse to Earl of Pearl. Dude, that's just nuts. And by the way, Ryan has confirmed that Derek Rose is getting his jersey retired. Okay. I'm glad. I saw something funny the other day with Derek Rose is on the streets of Chicago and somebody came up to him. and I saw somebody on the internet said something to the effect of, I can't believe Derek Rose doesn't have security. I'm like, buddy,

Derek Rose could walk around Chicago with a clear bag with $500,000 in it. He is safe. Nothing is going to happen. Nobody's foolish. Nobody's foolish. He is the untouchable, for real.

Oh my God, I've never seen. I can't think of, they don't make it like those anymore, right? Like with the relationship that a city has, because all these guys go to school in these different places, and they get extracted from their communities, right? Yeah.

Not Derek Rose. No, sir. No, he was very protected, but he was never removed. Yeah. And he comes back to the city, too. He's sitting there. You know, he involved with everybody. He's coming back to Simeon.

You know what I mean? Like, shout out to that, man. Again, I wish it was the same in Los Angeles, but that is not the case. It's not the case. Nobody. safe in L.A. The only person safe in L.A. is like magic.

You know what? And he ain't even from the crib, but he's been there longer than he been in East Lansing. So I get it. You know what I mean? But I'm they say maybe magic and Kobe. Like, ain't nobody robbing Kobe. I mean, you would have had to go all the way out there to rob Kobe. It would have been a myth that Kobe had a black belt.

You know what I said? You know somebody tried to rob him. He had a derail house kick. That would have been, don't leave Kobe alone. He would have had the James Joseph. Johnson story. But look at it. If you was going to rob Kobe, you'd had to drive so far and to a place where the white

people was going to pull you over before you even got to Kobe's house just because. Yeah. You ain't making it. You ain't making it. You ain't making it. You ain't making it out. It's just dumb as criminal stuff. Like, you're just not going to witness.

LA. Hey, you and I talked about this. He wasn't local. Therefore, y'all ain't even ride for pot. Nope. Y'all love pot. business as usual. I got to go to work tomorrow.

Y'all knew who got parked from the moment that it happened. And that dude lived long enough to get killed over something else. Hey, we, we, it was no sleep loss, bro. I remember it's the brightest day. Man, it was the loudest, it was the loudest secret ever. Like, if I asked you, if I asked you for directions to get to that dude's house, you probably could have gave it to him. Easy.

bro. Listen, this is the funny thing about it. He lived next to NBA NBA player. But that's nobody. Again, that's street stuff, bro. You just, you don't leave, you know, that's like somebody getting a purse-natched.

He just had zero awareness. God bless the dead, but you just got to stay out of people business, man. Boy, you guys. L.A. is a different world, brother. That is the ultimate world of the story right there is that Los Angeles is a different world. Now, let me ask you this before we get out of here, because you're up there in Indiana,

what's it like to be in the Caitlin Clark phenomenon, right? Now, so people know, you've been around, you've been around like the league in many ways. You've been around Nike. You've been around like on the commerce end. So like the business of basketball or something that you've been immersed in for many years. But what's it like being on the ground for this one?

Listen, I'm going to just put this in context. The quota has been reached for team sales in the store to a point where they got audited. What? Yes. You know what I'm saying? They sold so much gear

that people thought it wasn't legit. Both. They've sold, bro, and it's an interesting conversation. You know, obviously when they ask her how famous she is. But in the state of Indiana, no question. No question. It's a shoe that's supposed to come out, a Kobe 5 with her colorway. It's on the internet for five grand right now.

For people who got early pairs. Wow. You can't get a seat. You need giveaways. It's been sold out since it was announced. You can't get in the building. The Pacers only fill it up like that when it's playoffs. You can't get in the building.

It's the hottest ticket. Hot is ticket. So it's an experience, bro. It's the closest thing to college. It's the closest thing. I'm talking about transferable college. You know how you've been to the big school, the J.J. Reddick played for the Duke,

and it gets to Orlando, and that motion don't follow. Right. This follow. Who's the last person that that kind of motion really followed, right? So, like, it's tricky to say with Zion, because he came out and then he was hurt, right? And so he got back, we got some energy to it. But that Caitlin Clark thing, and I think maybe a part of it is because of the nature of the

WMBA season relative to college. So that first year, she went straight from college in the WNBA. And then when it came back around, my question was going to be, how sustainable truly is the interest, right? Like after it's not leading sports center all the time and everything else, how sustainable is it? And then it became very clear, quite sustainable. Oh, yeah.

No, they bought into the thing because it's only up from here. Rookie ear, check. That means, okay, investment cleared. The next thing, she's going to go to the finals or she's going to do really well in the playoffs and get MVP, right, in the regular season. To that point, yes, she's hurt right now,

but you never know when you got teammates that actually can get open and now they have to guard you honestly. You know what I mean? And that's a whole other thing. So the more reasonable accolades that she gets to achieve, she hasn't reached to the level of like, hey, she's a failure because she hasn't won yet. It's just like, can she get, is she good enough to get regular season MVP in year two? Right. And see, I'm wondering when this is going to create, I'm going to use the word rival, right?

Because I think Andrew Reese is a rival with an asterisk. You know what I mean? I mean, they have the history. Yeah, they have the history, but Ryan Howard is a real, her real. Okay, so this is what I'm talking. This is what I mean. If not a rival, either someone who becomes a star because of their proximity to her or the fact that they are a rival in that way, right? Like somebody is me and you and we're going to be going down the floor each time

and who gets it done, that sort of thing. Like that to me is the next level because I still don't feel like the Clark stardom has created the true complimentary star. Angel Reese put herself in that conversation in her junior year in college, right? Yeah. But that's, it's not the same, brother. Yeah, it's draft class.

It ain't that. Prep ranks. She was ranked higher than her, beat her in the national championship, but also they play two different positions. Ryan Howard and her really be bumping. Well, yeah, I was about saying they're a little closer in terms of skill levels.

You know what I mean? Like that's what's the part that I'm waiting on is when this starts getting it for everybody else. Because I made the, you know, made the Tiger Woods comparison the other day. But the thing about Tiger Woods was Tiger Woods got all them cats paid. Like they was a little, it was a little salty with him. But at the same time, they appreciated him. He changed everybody's life on the tour with his mere presence. That hasn't happened yet.

That's not where we are with this. She's a big phenomenon. It has helped the league. but it ain't really doing that much for any other individual player as far as I can see. You're welcome to tell me if I'm wrong because you're more informed. No, you're right. You're right. It's not, I mean, obviously that was the message, the overall message.

Like, you guys should be thanking her. And it's like, no, like everybody's not eating. I think the benefit of it, like her selling out the fever joints or now that they're going to bigger venues, we hadn't got there yet where the league is just like, all right, yo, somebody cracking a million. which is going to happen. You know what I mean? Like, sure.

A million a year, all this other stuff. And, you know, obviously the travel and the governors are starting to put a little bit more investment into, like, facilities and things of that nature, which is great in the advancement. But we're still just like a year or two away, a season away, you know what I mean? And obviously, you know, if Juju returns how she's supposed to, I think that is the last turning stone. You know what I mean? To get it because now you got page, you got Caitlin. you got Angel Reese, you got all the pivotal people. The Hannah-Hidogos are coming in.

You know what I mean? Like I think that gets a little bit interesting, but we still got some, you know, some old blood in there, man. And once the turning of the new, the W is going to be a different game. I think the next level for this is somebody she can't overcome. Right?

Like the Isaiah to her Jordan, right? Or the bird to her Isaiah. You know, like that, that one that you got to, I mean, keep it real, the Lakers had to deal with that with the Spurs. Like the Shack and Kobe Lakers, the Spurs and the Jazz were there people, but something that they keep banging their heads up against and then you have to give over. That is the part that makes this compelling. What we love about sports is what happens when the chips are down, what it takes for

you to get there, right? That's what we're here for by and large. Yeah, no, that makes sense. Like that I actually think is the most realistic criticism or to me, I think the fairest criticism of the idea of an Oklahoma City Indiana matchup is even though Oklahoma City lost in the second round last year and we saw

Indiana go to the conference finals last year and now go over the top it still doesn't have that feeling of they've been trying, try and trying and then finally broke through. That's the story that we typically love, right? Like there's got to be something that makes it hard, not just oh you lost

but the feeling like, oh man, you got to really dig deep. Yeah, it got to be a dominant matchup, right, where you're just like, yo, they were never going to beat them and they finally do it, right? And yeah, you mentioned it. Like, overall, there is no gatekeeper of the finals. We don't have that to let them finally get through. You know what I mean? Like LeBron beating the Celtics or Right, right, that's another, or LeBron had it with the pistons first. The pistons, yeah. Right? Because that game six, he pushed them, the game six in 06. They won that and they pushed it to

seven games and then they got the doors blowing off in that one. And then the next year when LeBron had the, for those who were not there, when LeBron put that 48 up in overtime in game five against the Pistons where he just went the end of the game and just won four of them all the way into the end. That was like, oh, he has arrived. He's here. Yeah. Right?

But we saw the holdups along the way. I think Anthony Edwards has that trajectory. And that's exactly it. It's building. It's like, okay. is he finally going to get there? Right. We're doing it to him at 23.

We're talking about him at 23. Unfortunately, man, so a lot of pressure that come with this S word. Look, we did it to LeBron at 25. Like, I made the point. I was like, we did it to Anthony Edwards before we did to LeBron. People were like, oh, he didn't do it to LeBron? No, actually we did not. We did not really do it to LeBron until 2010.

Like 2009, you started hearing whispers. But, you know, when Skip Baylitz talked all that stuff about LeBron, we was like, get to fuck out of here, homie. You know, like, we was really not trying to hear it. He got his victory lap in 2010 and 2011. Then it was a little bit different. Anthony Edwards is playing with the Minnesota Temple Wholes at 23 years old. And now we're like, all right, homie, that's two chances for you.

Swing and a miss. So I think he gets it. I think he gets it soon. I mean, look here. Here's the problem. These Oklahoma City Thunder are going to be good for a very, very, very, very, very, Long time. I know.

He's going to have to get past them, boys. He's going to have to get past him. For everybody that's like, Jordan trained in the pool. We thought everybody else was set up for a long time. The difference is when they get somebody that need too much money and got a lead, they can do something about it. Mm-hmm.

They got what it takes to stay good. They have the best general manager in the league. I don't care if he hadn't won a championship up until this point. They got the best guy working. Yeah, period. I agree. period. But that is Trevon Edwards. Check them out. G-O-T-E, greatest of their era. Get your podcast. We're all fine podcasts a giving away for free. Shout out to you. Shout out to Seth Curry. You know what I'm

saying? Greatly appreciate you falling through, my brother. Yeah, man, it's always always a joy, man. I see, I see you at the end of the finals. Yes, sir. And ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us here on the right time. We do this three times a week. Ryan Brumley handling everything behind the scenes. Thank you, sir. Byrd, follow the right time, subscribe, like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. We'll talk to you guys in a couple of days. Take it easy.