The Right Time with Bomani Jones - Vinnie Goowill on Why the 1996 USA Team was WAY better than you remember | 07.21

Episode Date: July 21, 2026

Bomani Jones is joined by Vinnie Goodwill from ESPN for a Time Machine Tuesday edition of The Right Time, diving deep into the history and legacy of the 1996 USA Men's Olympic Basketball Team (often called Dream Team 3). Bo and Vinnie compare the squad to the iconic 1992 Dream Team and the 1994 World Championship team, breaking down the incredible roster that featured young superstars like Penny Hardaway and Grant Hill alongside dominant big men Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O'Neal, and David Robinson. They discuss why the 1996 team was a physical powerhouse that routinely blew past international competition, how the legendary 1996 free agency period loomed large over the team's tour, and why Charles Barkley managed to be the leading scorer for both the '92 and '96 Olympic runs. Later, they explore the ultimate "what if" regarding Penny Hardaway's injury-shortened prime, the madness surrounding Shaq signing with the Lakers mid-Olympics, and settle the final debate: could the 1996 roster actually beat Michael Jordan and the 1992 Dream Team? . . . Subscribe to Supercast for Ad-Free Episodes: https://righttime.supercast.com/ Buy 'The Right Time' merch: http://therighttimebomani.com/ Subscribe to The Right Time with Bomani Jones on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts and follow the show on Instagram, Twitter, and Tik Tok for all the best moments from the show. Download Full Podcast Here: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6N7fDvgNz2EPDIOm49aj7M?si=FCb5EzTyTYuIy9-fWs4rQA&nd=1&utm_source=hoobe&utm_medium=social Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-right-time-with-bomani-jones/id982639043?utm_source=hoobe&utm_medium=social Follow The Right Time with Bomani Jones on Social Media: http://lnk.to/therighttime Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Wave. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the right time, a Wave Original. My name is Beaumani Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater.

It is Time Machine Tuesday. Coming to us live, we got our man from ESPN covering the NBA, Vinny Goodwill, joining us to talk about Dream Team. Team 3. Yeah, I was going to say, I didn't know if you referred, I don't know if you referred to that as Dream Team 3, because some people refer to the 96 team as Dream Team 2 and the 94 World Championships team as Dream Team.

So it's a weird thing. It all depends on branding. Well, no, well, here's the thing for me is I was there for it, and I remember when the 94 team came around, we called a Dream Team 2. the idea like making the 96 team dream team two is acting like that didn't happen like we were here and I actually wanted to bring that up because part of the what's interesting about this is the first dream team obviously had an unreal level of star power and of course a level of talent but it's

magic johns hadn't played NBA basketball for a year larry bird was on the verge of retiring um one might argue that there were two hall of fame centers on the team but not the best center in the NBA because Elijah mom was not on that team. It was Ewing and Robinson. Isaiah Thomas was not there. John Stockton was. Chris Mullin in retrospect is like, huh, isn't that interesting? But as good as that team was, USA basketball for the next couple of runs kept putting together really strong teams. And the first one was the 94 World Championship team that played. I think that was in Canada that year. But I'm looking at this roster. I know this isn't going to sound like it to people,

but Derek Coleman, who, if we're just talking about talent, Derek Coleman was out of this world. Like, the 1994 version of Derek Coleman is actually a really good play. Yes. You know, Derek Coleman is the prototype. Isn't he the prototype of what you want, even today, what you want to power for it to be, finish at the rim, ambidextrous, can shoot, can move.

Handles. And he was a lefty? Yeah. Like, he's even more of a prototype than Rashii Wallace, because Wallace was not giving you the handles and the wiggle that Derek Coleman was. Like, we strictly think of Derek Coleman as wasted potential, but he was also a really good player. Dude, it's hard to, like, it's one of those things like you kind of have to be there.

And luckily for me, like, growing up in Detroit and he's a Detroit import, so to speak, like he grew up in Alabama. He kind of started off in Alabama. then came to Detroit, but he hit that sort of Detroit game. Like, you see Derek Coleman and Chris Weber. Like, you see it in the, you don't see it in the athleticism, because Chris was just a freak, but you see it in the skill. And the fact that there was legit, nothing he couldn't do to the fact that if the man

didn't show up to practice, that's why he gave us the greatest single quote of all time. Well, whoopty damn do. Well, there's that quote. And this is some of the most disrespectful shit of all time. And it's especially disrespectful because he did it to the brother man. It's him coming at the beginning of the NBA season and give him a Budge beard a blank check saying, just fill it out with my fines.

Yeah. Yeah, that was a tough break. That was tough break. Hold on. We got Joe Dobar. All those Butch Beard wanted him to show up with a suit coming on the flights and stuff. That's it.

That's it. That's it. By and asking that much, to be perfectly honest. Joe Dumars, who, Joe Dumars was, he looked so old. That was the thing. That is like, it feels like Joe Dumars is too old to be on this team, but he really wasn't.

Like, this is about what, like year 10, Dumars or year nine? Year nine. Like, and I think Joe spent four years in college. Yeah. But even if you look at young Joe Dumas. Yeah. If you look at young Joe Dumars, and that wasn't young, that was like sort of like right tail middle of his prime,

even young Joe Dumas looked like old Joe Dumas like he was the young guy on the team he looked like a dude that had just headed with everybody's shit at that point you know what I mean

like that's just where he was and he was the veteran presence so to speak on a team full of the rascals like that thing was just full of rascals and rap scalions yeah I mean we're going to get

Kevin Johnson Larry Johnson Greatwood if case Sean Kemp who that's a had to be there also star, right? Like, at least it comes up in the YouTube videos, but still, you just kind of had to be there. Like, he's the rare guy that people are like, oh, you're just getting nostalgic about dudes. He's one where that might be the case, right? At his best, he was very good, but he is not quite

as good as we remember because in that Hall of Fame that lets everybody in, none of us have been like where is Sean Keb? Well, the weird thing is he's the one guy who can say, I had a better NBA finals than Michael Jordan. You could make the argument that. two years later in 96 when he put it all together and Seattle went from being the team that was perpetually disappointing to get into the finals.

He took Dennis Robin to the woodshed that entire series. We forget about it because Seattle went down three games to none. You know what I mean? And that was the Bulls' 72 and 10 season and the Bulls tricked off those two games in Seattle and that two three two set up.

But look at those numbers in that series. Sean Kemp was a freak. Yeah. Like that was George. worst finals, all things consider, like, if we're saying Jordan's worst finals. He was still dominating their whole back court. Like, he was outscoring, Peyton and Hersey Hawkins combined in those games. Yeah, that was a weird, that was a weird series. But you put Sean Kemp in 96 up against any other guy at his peak against Michael Jordan in the finals. He matches up with all those dudes.

Yeah. I mean, who else on this team? Dan Marty's on this team. Reggie Miller's on this team. Alonzo Mourning and Shaq are on this team. Mark Price, the rare phenomenon of the underrated Caucasian. Love Mark Price. That's another had to be there, guy. Mark Price is 6'170 pounds and made first team all the NBA. Is Mark Price analogous to like, is he like the prototype before Steve Nash? The difference is Nash is so much bigger than him.

and I feel like Price was a more willing scorer. Yes. He was. He was more willing to shoot. And because of the way the league was, he had to go down there and take that contact. He did. Like, he was catching concussions and things with that.

And there's like, when we talk about teams that were kind of lost the time to the Michael Jordan Bulls, the Cleveland Cavaliers caught the blues the most. Like they lost to him in 89 on the shot when they had beaten Cleveland, when the Cleveland had beaten the Bulls, six times during that regular season,

lost to them again in the 92 conference finals, got swept in 93. And then by the end, that was kind of like the end of it. But that was like the run, like their window was kind of 89 to 93. And Detroit was better than them. And then Chicago kept beating them.

So they never were like really able. But I don't hold that against Mark Price. I hold that against other dudes on that team. Yes. Also, this team has Steve Smith and a little lifetime achievement award for Dominique Wilkins, who is still a good player. Like, that was the year that the Hawks decided they didn't want me to roof for them no more. You know, and so that's the 94 team.

They were cold. Like, you know, like, Shaq after two years in the NBA was unreal. Alonzo Morning, we forget about if Shaq had not been what Shaq was when he first got there. Alonzo Morning still walked in the door, 20 and 10, hit that big shot to win the, when the 90th, the playoffs at 93 against Boston. Like, he was an immediate impact. player. Like this was a really, really, really good team and the 96 team blows this team out of the water. Yes. Like if you think, if you just, the part part is we put dream team on such like a

pedestal, right? And you kind of broke down where magic was, where bird was, the fact that you didn't even have the best center in the league. The only person that you were missing from 96 is the greatest player to ever play. But when you take that away, and that's no small feat, but think of the fact that you had Elijah Wan, Shaq, and David Robinson. Legitimately, you could make the argument that, let's see, one, two, three, four. The seven best players in basketball, minus number one, was on that team in the NBA, in the dream team, like period point blank, from Penny Hardaway to best of Penny Hardaway to the best we were going to see of Grant Hill.

Well, hold, hold, hold, hold. Let's take a minute. Let's take them out. Let's give them to people in a digestible format because you're about to run away. You're about to run away with us, okay? My bad. My bad. No, no, no.

You're good. You're good, though. It's a good preview. It's good preview. So to me, the thing about this team that it's easy to forget is how many guys came back. Mm-hmm. Right? This is quietly, for David Robinson, his third straight Olympics because he was on the 98 team

because he had been, the 98 Olympics came after he had finished college, but while he was still on the boat. 88. So it was while he was still, yeah, 88. So it was while he was still on the boat. So he got to, well, he had the privilege regarding our Venus a bonus in 1988. And that did not go as well as he would have preferred. But he was on the 92 team. He was on this one.

Charles Barkley, who prior to like Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, really had a claim to be in like the greatest USA Olympian ever because he was the leading score in both of those Olympians. teams. But he would people try to get on that, like your Draymond Green messed up on that Houston Rock is Charles Barkley. The 1996 version of Charles Barkley was still the leading score on the Olympic team. Like Houston Rockets, Charles Barkley was still a very good player. Like Houston Rock is like late 70s James Brown. No, dog, he was still jamming. Believe it or not, sounds crazy, but he was. No, here's the crazy thing. And if you think about it,

and this is something I literally thought about maybe in the past like couple of weeks just because my brain goes weird. The fact that all Charles Berkeley needed to do in the summers was play high level basketball. And then he'd go and have a great season the next year because he was in shape and then have to play himself in the shape. 92, he was arguably the best player on that team with Michael Jordan. Then 93, he goes and wins MVP with Phoenix because the man's in shape and then he got traded. In 96, he's on his way out of Phoenix.

headed to Houston. Go look at 97 Barkley. He was still an absolute monster. He might not have led the league and rebounder, but he might have been at least 20 and 14. No, Dennis Rodman was still around, so he did not lead the league and rebounder, but he was still that guy.

Yes. Like, no, me stop. He was not that guy, right? He's not 1993 Charles or 1990 Charles, but he was probably the best number three player anybody had on their roster. I mean, was he the second best player on the roster? He was probably better than Clyde, but he was the third, he was the third option.

He took that role on. Right, right, right. And I remember him saying, I can't be the best player on the team. I have to go and do these other things, the rebounding and everything else. You know, I'm going to control the glass. And then, like, you know, you go to the other power for it on the team. You know what I mean? Yeah, Caram Blone comes back.

And look, at this point, Caramlo was he, if nothing else. an incredible season basketball player. Like, there's, there's no way around it. Nobody likes to, nobody likes to say nice things about Carl Malone. I mean, I sure as hell don't. Maybe you like to say nice things about Carl Malone. Not you. I'm talking about, like, just the other kind.

I don't like to do it. But Carl Malone was bad, motherfucker. Like, there wasn't, the thing where Carl Malone is, the only person that could stop Carl Malone was Carl Malone. And lucky for the rest of the league, Carl Malone was good at stopping himself. But he and Stockton back on the Olympic team again. Those two dudes, and by the way,

we've talked about, I don't know if I've talked about it on this show, but the most amazing thing ever about John Stockton and Carl Malone, they are easily the most durable players in the history of the NBA. Like there's, I think Will Chamberlain played every game, but these dudes basically, I think Stacton had that one injury, that one year early in his career, and then after that, them boys played 82 every year unless Carl Malone, elbow, somebody in the face or something that got suspended.

They basically went like 16, 17 years of playing every night, including playing these Olympics. Well, I mean, Stockton, I want to say Stockton had a knee surgery in 97 going into 98. Oh, yeah, in the offseason, right. Right. And he missed like the first maybe 20 or 30 games of that season. And they still wanted to make it to the finals. And Carl Malone didn't miss significant time until he got to L.A. And that was in 2003, 2004.

He was 40 years old. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they start off like 18 and 1, and I want to say, you know, he tore up his knee or something like that and then, you know, missed the big part of that season. But they were legitimately indestructible. And it was partly because John Stockton was a low, like, maintenance player. Like, it wasn't a whole lot of variance in gravity. He wasn't taking a whole lot of risks. Like, he was setting, like, the dirty screens and everything else.

But he wasn't, like, flying through the air initiating a lot of collisions. He was just a tough bastard. And I say that with the most sort of respect that I can have about him. Now, if I say that about Carl Malone, trust me, I'm not saying that with the utmost respect. He got, he got like skins on the wall of people he done elbowed in the face on purpose, including giving seek. Tell the people where you're from. Tell the people where you're from. Tell the people where you're from.

Or did you already just do it? Okay. You've taken care of it. I am from Detroit. I'm sorry, y'all. You see that where Kenny Martin talks about because Kenny Martin, who's from Dallas when he's born in Saginaw, talks about the first time he played Carl Ballone,

he stole off all of it in the game and said that was physique. That's how we feel. Yeah, y'all take that one. I took that one seriously. Seriously. By the way, speaking of that 94 team, Isaiah was supposed to be on it. But that's what he had the Achilles chair.

I mean, if there's one person, and this is not the Detroit Vinny coming out, But if there's one person who's gotten royally screwed in terms of USA basketball, like go back to the 1980 Pan Am games, the boycott that prevented him from going over there and getting a gold medal. Oh, no, those are the Pan Am games. Those are the Olympics. Those are the Olympics.

I'm sorry, not the Pan Am game. Yeah, he doesn't get a chance to go to the Olympics. He would have been on that Olympic team. Let's assume they would have gotten gold because that's all the U.S. did until 88. Like, and then 92, we don't got to talk about that. he got screwed by everybody. Everybody's hands is on that knife. You know what I'm saying? And then in this, in the world, he pops his Achilles on the very last game, his whole last home game against the Orlando Magic on April 15, 1994.

Like, we knew he was retiring, but we thought like Bird, like Magic that he would at least get like the farewell and be able to get some type of gold medal. And he doesn't get that. He gets screwed. Although I will make this point about 80. It would have been interesting because the only time the U.S. did not win the goal was in 1972. And it definitely looked like they was actually. here cheating and the 1980 games would have been in Moscow. Just throwing it out there. Just, just, just throwing it. By the way, Doug Collins, 50 however many years over it.

I don't think he ain't been, he ain't been right since. No. No, no, Doug is, and Doug ain't wrapped too tight anyway. Yeah, yeah, but I mean, I don't know what he was before that. I feel like the rush this might have fuck around and broke him, but he ain't been right since. But who else we had? Scotty Pippen was on this team.

Like, it's actually interesting to think that players of that level, they came back for this team because after this is when guys kind of stopped going, right? And that kind of leads you to 2004 where there's not really a roster to speak of. But they brought all these guys back onto the team and then we're adding the 1996

versions of Grand Hill, Penny Hardaway, Mitch Richmond, Reggie Miller, who by now has established himself as superstar is unfair, but as a superstar, I put like this, he's a playoff superstar.

Yes. Right? Like this is, like he has established himself as being a for real deal somebody and he is the best player on a team that is now a very regular contender at this point. Like it makes more sense to Reggie Miller's on this team

and Chris Mullum was on the last one, but they need us white boys. This time they were like John Stockton, good enough. Yeah, then we add Shaquille O'Neill. Then we add Gary Payton, who is the biggest John Stockton fan of all time. That's also a fascinating.

thing about the NBA is like Gary Payton call him Mr. Stockton. Yes. Right? You see that clip of Barrett Davis in him talking about that. I forget who it was but saying like Gary Payton's going to be like when you show that Mr. Stockton, respect what he shows up here. Barrett Davis is talking about that. I just out here watching whoever

it was like man, I'd be just watching John Stockton just walk people down wherever he goes, he ain't about to do that to me and then Barry Davis pops up and next thing you know, he's just walking you down. You're like, it ain't going to happen to me. And it happened to everybody. You think it don't happen to you till it do.

Did it do? Did it do? But Gary Payton and then, then somebody went and got his paperwork. And Akim Elijah Juan was now playing for the United States. And I wonder if that happened now because they got enough cats if he would have played for the Nigerian team. And then it would have got very interesting out there. But for now, no.

Elijah Juan is on. You're bringing Shaq off the bench. and David, I was like, and David Robinson, who time has underrated in large part because of what Elijah won did to him in 95. If you drop David Robinson into today's NBA, you know what David Robinson is in today's NBA? What you would like MB to be.

I wonder if you drop David Robinson in today's game if he's not a seven foot small forward. because remember he grew. He was a six-foot. He was a six-six dude on the boat. And then all of a sudden came back a seven-footer. So by that point of basketball training and the basketball industrial complex and everything else, he's a ball handling.

He's a basketball handling. And he was like the dude who was the physical specimen to. He would have been, there's no prototype for him, is it? That's why I said Embed. I'm just thinking about somebody seven feet. Robinson wasn't 270 pounds, but like seven feet, but

built like that, faced the basket, had a handle, had a J. So one, he would have had more range. It's the same thing with Elijah Juan. Elijah would have had a much different range if he played. Elizuan ultimately, like he wasn't as athletic as John Smith,

but you could put like the dreams of what John Smith could be. Think about us, Elijah, who's really like six, nine and a half. Right. had handles who had all those moves, great rebounder, the best pound for pound shot blocker that ever played in the league. And you put them in today's paradigm. The question becomes, and this is so weird that we land here,

the question becomes, can he develop as a basketball player with those soccer skills at the same time? Yes. You know what I'm saying? Because, you know, today is everything specialized. So he gets the footwork. Yeah, so you're asking, does it. Is it possible for him to show up late to basketball?

Right. This is my read on that. And I don't know exactly how things work in Nigeria. But he was going to be playing soccer. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Let's get you straight right now. He was going to be playing some soccer.

And then at some point somebody going to roll the ball to him. And then for there we get that figured out. But that's a good question. How many of these, do we have any guys left who just show up to basketball? basketball late? Like, is that happening anymore? Like, Amari Stademeyer, who didn't show it to basketball late, but he showed up to organize basketball late. You don't hear much about that he didn't play ball until 10th grade guys anymore. Wasn't that Embedd? Wasn't Embed the guy who showed

to basketball late? But he showed up early enough to go to Montverd for high school. Okay. You know what I mean? So I mean, you're right. It gets possible. I'm not exactly sure we in. But that that archetype, because I've long been of the belief, and I still think it holds despite all of his heart. The number one thing that matters is natural physical endowments. And if you walk in the gym and you show those, they're not going to be like, but he hadn't been coached up.

They're like, no, we found something. These kids is too close to they seal it. We might be able to make something happen here. Right. Yeah, that's the weird thing because like you said, Elijah Juan at 6'9, but with the great hand-eye coordination, the great, like, he kind of, the tough. Good shooter.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. The touch developed more as he evolved in Houston. Like, I feel like he was more big man running the floor, had touch around the rim, but then he started to extend it out in the early 90s just when, you know, just when his game started to change a little bit more. But, yeah, like, David Robinson,

you build him in a lab. You can't build, you can't build a Lijuan in a lab. You're damn sure he can't build Shaq in a lab. The problem with Robinson, to me, was all those growth spurred guys are just a little bit weird. Right? They're like, they like Neo in the Matrix. Like, they just stumbled into what it is.

Like, they didn't necessarily come up with that, like, love to taste of blood type situation. Anthony Davis being an example there. Marcus Camby, that was another growth spurred guy. But when you go through and you find the guys where it was just like out of nowhere this happened, like those big dudes there, the thing where Robinson was, he was absolutely not a killer, right?

And he can't say he was soft. Dude was in the Navy, right? We can't go there. but Elijah Juan played with a fury that David Robinson just did not have. That's just not the kind of guy he was. It's a very nice guy who was really, really good at basketball. Some guys just can't go to that place. Mm-hmm.

You know, it's just like it's the top of the top. It's some dudes that cannot act like maybe the difference between Clyde Drexler and Michael Jordan is that Michael Jordan was always going to go to that place. And Clyde just wasn't built like that. It's the difference between Tim Duncan and David Robinson, because if you were to ask me which of them in some total was a better basketball player, I would tell you David Robinson. Really?

I mean, look, so the thing about Tim Duncan is one might argue Tim Duncan could have been prior to Victor Win Banayama, the most impactful team defender of all time. Like, that's his thing. He's just such an incredible defense. Tim Duncan was even, you can say, okay, he didn't take that many shots or whatever, but David Robinson was a guy that could give you 30 in a way that Tim Duncan wasn't the guy to give you 30. David Robinson, I think, was more skilled.

And Tim Duncan was incredibly skilled. But some of the things we're talking about with facing the basket and taking dues to the bucket, he was stronger, all of those things. But for those who were not here for this, speaking of people, Carl Malone his elbow in our late regular season game in 1998, Carl Malone elbowed David Robinson and gave him a concussion. This is rookie Tim Duncan. Tim Duncan was furious and put 38 on him.

And it was an angry, 38 and it's what we're talking about you didn't really see from David Robbins, right? That's where the difference is. And that difference is the part that matters probably more than the skill part. Well, not just that. But think about all the growth spurred guys that you kind of mentioned. Scotty Pippen, also a growth spurt guy.

He was 6-1 and then grew to 6-7. I think during college, right? Yes. Tim Duncan, you couldn't move him. Like, you can move David Robinson. You could move Anthony Davis. You could certainly move Scotty Pippin. Once Tim Duncan planted his foot, one foot right outside the box,

or he basically said you're not getting any deeper post position, you're not moving. That helps in terms of a lot of other stuff, like just the fact that if you can't move a guy, you can't start fearing a guy as opposed to David Robinson where not muscles for free, but you felt like he was big and strong but maybe didn't, like he wasn't like intimidating in the way that you feared him. Like you had to make sure you knew where he was, but it wasn't like this audible fear of what Tim Duncan could actually do if you got Tim Duncan mad.

Right, right. Now, coming up next, we're going to talk about what this team did in the Olympics and the big question, is this the real dream team? The right time is brought to you by Fanduel. Baseball fans think you know who's hitting a homer today? Well, Fanduel is giving you a free chance to call your shot with Daily

dingers. Joining the action is easy. Just make your free pick on who's hitting a home run in their game, and if you're right, you'll get a profit boost to use on your next bet for a chance at extra winnings. You've got nothing to lose and a lot to gain. And don't forget, you can make a free pick every day during the MLB season. It's just another reason why FanDuel is the home for home runs. So are you ready to play your game today? Join all the action at FanDuel.com. that's fanduil.com slash bomani to play daily dingers and make your free pick on who's hitting a homer. Play ball and swing for the fences at Fanduil, an official partner of MLB. 21 plus states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino, 18 plus DC, Kentucky, Wyoming.

Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler. 1-800, my reset. Call 1-888-7-9-7-7-7. Visit CCPG.org slash chat, Connecticut. Visit MD gambling help.org, Maryland. Visit gambling helpline, MA.org. Call 800-327-50-50, Massachusetts. Call 1877-8-8-Hope-N-Y. Text, Hope-N-Y, New York. call 1-877-7-7-7-867, Louisiana.

Today's show is sponsored by strawberry.m.e. Let me ask you something. Are you where you want to be in your career? Or are you waking up every day knowing you're capable of more but not sure how to get there? Listen, often on the show I've talked about the importance of finding a professional to do the job right. Success doesn't just happen. and the most successful people in the world don't figure it out alone. They have mentors, coaches, and people guiding them every step of the way.

That's where Strawberry.m.e career coaching comes in. Career coaching gives you the clarity, strategy, and accountability needed to turn your goals into reality, whether it's landing a new job, advancing in your current role, or transitioning into a field you love. With expert guidance, you'll identify obstacles holding you back, develop a step, develop a step-by-step plan and take action with confidence, knowing you have a dedicated coach supporting you every step of the way. Instead of relying on guest work or waiting for the right time, professional coaching helps you take control of your career trajectory, ensuring you make intentional strategic moves towards success. Go to strawberry.m.m.m.i and get 50% off

your first coaching session. That's strawberry.m.m.m. It's like therapy for your career. One thing I love about summer is how easy everything feels. The days are a little more relaxed, and I find myself reaching for the same comfortable, go anywhere pieces again and again. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on well-made essentials

that naturally become those everyday staples you actually live in all season long. Quince's 100% European linen pants and shirts are breathable, easy to throw on, and the summer upgrade your rotation needs, starting at just $34. Their teas are soft enough to live in all day, and the lightweight cotton sweaters are exactly what you want when summer nights cool down. Everything at Quince has priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen, so you're paying for exceptional quality, not brand markup. And it's not just clothing. Quince has become a trusted

favorite for everything from home to travel to everyday essentials. Make your summer wardrobe easier. Go to quince.com slash TRT for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash TRT for free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash TRT. Look, if you're serious about performance, you want products you can trust. GNC was built for athletes and has been trusted by athletes for 91 years.

They review every product against the restricted list of more than 150 no-go ingredients and their experts test products for quality, taste, and performance. They also offer products that go through strict third-party banned substance verification, which matters if you're competing at any level. Whether you're looking for energy, recovery, better sleep, or just trying to be ready on game day, GNC has something for every athlete, every fan, and every goal.

With more than 2,000 locations and 24-7 shopping at GNC.com, it's easy to find what works for you. Discover why millions trust GNC. Shop athlete-tested science-backed picks today at GNC.com. All right, we're back with Vinnie Goodwill, talking about the 1996 USA Minnesota.

basketball Olympic team. I was sitting here, man, looking at the results. And really looking at the teams, the team USA played, there's literally nothing to talk about. They ain't even like, with 92, you had like that Croatian team, right? So you had like Drozepetrovic,

Tony Koo coach, Dino Raja, like it was kind of a glimpse into the future, right? And I guess in the gold medal game, they did play the old Yugoslav cats. You know, they, I think they put a team together. and that's who they played against.

Yeah. But bruh, they was just out here smoking. They were smoking countries. I didn't even know how had basketball teams. They went against Argentina. They got to play Angola again. The Charles Barkley quotes that we can say in public now about Angola, I don't know anything about Angola, but I know Angola's in trouble.

The thing about 96 was that, like, 92 would just blow you away from the start. Like, there was no, you know, the whole Chuck Daly thing. he was never calling the time out. He never called a time out. In 96, there were a couple of games where two-point game at halftime, and then they just come on and just blow their doors off to start the next quarter or the next, you know, next half or whatever it was. It was just, it wasn't the same approach as 92. 92 was, you know, we're on a mission to show everybody what this team is

and what American basketball is and everything else. By 96, it was kind of like, oh, yeah, this is cool. Let's go out here and hoop. because we're in Atlanta and everything else that came with that. And Atlanta being a huge backdrop of this whole 1996 experience of everything. Like it felt a lot closer to homeboat. I don't know if it's just because maybe I was older at the time where I could more or so feel it, just the whole Olympic experience, maybe just seeing it in Atlanta

and knowing that I had never been in Atlanta before. But I just felt like it was closer. So I felt like there wasn't the mission of bringing basketball to the world. It just felt like, oh, man, the best. players in the United States that's going to go hoop and just blow everybody's doors. And that's by and large what they did. Like, Oscar Schmidt gave them 31 game, I want to say. I mean, but somebody had the score.

You know what I'm saying? Like, in that game where he gave them 30, they beat them by 23. Like, these are the scores. Argentina in the first game, 96 to 68, Angola, 8754. Lithuania, 104 to 82. China, 133 to 70. They have never figured this thing. I chide into Philippines, love basketball so much.

and it ain't never going to get but so good. Croatia, 102 to 71, Brazil, 98 to 75. Australia in the semi-finals. I don't even know who was on that fucking team. I think Andrew Gage was on that team. I'd say the dude with the Jackie Seton Hall situation. Yes.

101 to 73. And then the Croatia minus, I mean, Yugoslavia minus Croatia. I think it might have been minus Serbia too. But 95 to 69. they were still destroying people. I think the difference probably was more than anything else is the other teams weren't nearly just as happy to just be there.

Like that dream team documentary, the thing that I didn't remember, these cats was in the middle of the games stopping and being like, yo, can you take a picture right fast? Not at halftime, not between quarters, not during timeouts. Like, hey, right fast. Like a picket. It's a pickup game. Hey, hold up a second.

Hold a shot. whole ball, whole ball. All right, let's go. It was, you know the most memorable thing to me? About 96, I don't see if you remember this. Remember, like in 92, they were doing the Tournament of the Americas thing, and I was in Portland. In 96, they were going to NBA arenas playing college teams.

They played Marcus Camby and Tim Duncan in those games, and that's where I first saw Tim Duncan, because Marcus Camby was the guy. Yeah. You know, everybody knew Marcus Campbell's the guy because he went to UMass, the UMass at... And he gave Tim Duncan that work that year. Yes.

But by the summer, it looked very clear to me. Oh, this Wake Forest dude, he's something because he was giving these pros fits. And they were going on the tour like there. I remember, Beau, they went to Indiana. Now, this is another backdrop that I'm not sure people remember. 96 was the biggest NBA free agency in history at the time. Michael Joy was a free agent. Gary Payton was a free agent.

Shaquille O'Neal. Shaq. Shaq, Shaq, the biggest free agent at the time that was getable. Like, all those loose were free agents. And none of the guys had signed at that point. Like Shaq wound up signing during the Olympics. But during the tour, it was almost like in Reggie Miller. Like these teams were being recruited by the home crowds.

Like they did a game in Indiana. or Reggie Miller was like the king and indie, and he was a free agent. And people thought he was actually going to go and play for the New York Knicks. So they were showing all this appreciation while playing against the college teams, while watching them prep for the Olympics.

Like, it was all this other richness in the air before we even get to Atlanta and everything. Like, that's what I remember remembered most. And then also seeing Grant Hill and Penny Hardaway on the same team. Like, that to me was the most freaky thing ever, or like seeing these two dudes who are the future. Like those dudes are next.

Like they're now and they're on the same squad. And like to me that was just like I'm almost like speechless about it. Like how excited I was to see that at the time. Yeah. And especially now because Penny Hardaway, you don't, you don't have this happen that much anymore. I guess Gilbert Arena's is a similar case, but not exactly the same.

But these comments, right? Like when we're talking about Penny Hardaway, we're really talking about three years. it's like 93 through 96 is really what we're talking about. But it was an indelible one, right? Like it's a, he was your favorite player. Like, he is a no-brainer choice to be on this team, right? Yes.

He was so big. He had this creative game. He was like a true combo guard. Like, I would not truly classify him as a point guard, but he was too much of a point guard for them to keep Scott Skiles. You know what I mean? Right. It was just a, it was a comet on that squad.

So you had these old squad. these old heads, the team, the young guys they have, a Grand Hill, less of a comment because we had a little bit of a longer time period, but still very similar, man, where it's just like, hey, man, that felt like that happened so fast. Then that going along with Akim Olajuwon, like you said, Shaq, Dream, and Robinson, and the thing is, you could truly play any two of them together.

Dude, think about this. I want to say in 96, Michael won MVP, of course. I want to say David Robinson might have been second. And maybe Penny was third or fourth in MVP voting in 96. And then in 97, Carl Malone won fraudulently. Michael was second and then Grant Hill was third. But you could legit make the argument that the three best players in basketball at that time

was Michael Jordan clearly without peer and then Grant Hill and Penny Hardaway. Like the fact that, like you said, Penny Hardaway was an evolution of Magic Johnson at the time. It was like Magic Johnson with more athleticism, more hops. But not as big. That's the one thing. Not as big. Not as big. He was 6-7, not 6-9.

And he couldn't hold weight like Magic was 225 and could hold all of it. Penny was more not super skinny, like as he was when he first came into the league. He just started to put on weight. And he was trying to figure out the balance between the weight and the athleticism. And he never really did. because his knees started to go as soon as he put on his grown man weight, which is God, that's the worst thing ever. Like, you got to see to me, you got to see the best of Grand Hill.

It was just a matter of how long he was going to sustain that into the 2000s. We never got to see like the fully actualized the Penny Hardaway that could control the game that could score 40 like he did in that one series against the Miami Heat when he shifted from point guard to shooting guard. He scored 40 points in two straight games and his team didn't score 80. Like, that's how great he was and how necessary he was in those series. But that's, to me, that's the biggest what if. Like, people talk about, you know, the Derek Roses and maybe Blake Gryphins or Brandon

Roy's or Bill Walton or Greg Golden. To me, the number one, what if with that dude at that time was Penny Hardaway. It is not even close. And speaking of Penny Hardaway, you mentioned it a little earlier. Can you imagine in our current day and age, our current media cycles, what it would have been when Shaq signed to go to the Lakers during the Olympics and Penny found out the same time

as the rest of us? He, dude, he found, I think in one of those documentaries, someone asked Shaq a question they had on like the headphones to try to get it like translated. So I think it was someone foreign asking the question. And it says something about Shaq,

you know, you're signing with the Lakers and they show a penny's face. He was like, what? Hey, keep it down. Now, keep it down. Say that again, home boy. And then here's the other thing. And this also came to mind. At the beginning of the 95-96 season, Shaq had a broken wrist or a broken thumb.

So he missed like the first 20 games of the season. You know who led the league in scoring? Penny! Yep. That dude. Like, this is what we were, this is what we missed because his knees and he had, you know, that micro fracture surgery before we found out. Hey, that ain't exactly the fix. All those guys.

Him, Kenya Martin, Amari Stadamara with terrible timing. The worst. The absolute, like Amari's the only dude to come back from the micro fracture and be himself. But even then, that was like a ticking time bomb and that blew up basically by the time he got to the Knicks, like three or four years later. But, man, like you said, in the media climate, figuring out the wodge bomb happening right in front of you. Hey, Shaq, you're the biggest free agent in NBA history. And your team just allowed you to go to the. Lakers because the Orlando Sentinel put out a poll and said, can we pay shack $100 million?

Yes or no. And people in Orlando said, no, we straight. Look, it's just the newspaper poll, but as if it's your own money, that tells you everything you need to know about fans. It ain't even yo dough. That man going to sell enough Amway to make this happen, I promise you. Oh, that was incredible. Like, it's crazy, Bo.

do you think that people understand what Shaq was or has Shaq like Barclay becomes such a caricature of himself in this inside the NBA world and this social media world that we haven't properly contextualized that the best of Shaq from 96 to like 02 might be the best player we've ever seen? Yeah, I think it's a little easier for people to get because the proxies are there for Shaq

in a way they're not there for Barclay, four championships, three finals, MVP's. You know, so I think that there's a little bit of, and you can't grasp the physical singularity of Charles and the way you can easily grasp the physical singularity of Shaq. What I don't think people realize is that he used to be much slimmer. And when he was, it was, he's the most physically perfect basketball player

that anybody put together like Young Shack, like 7 foot, 2.95. I've Shaq? No problems. That you can do. I mean, look, yeah, follow them. That's about it. Follow them, put them on the line and call it a day.

But everything to me, it was almost like all the things that we think about from 96 on kind of began in 96. Like Carmelon hit his MVP season after that. Grand Hill had the best season of his career going into year three of that. We got the best of the rest of Penny Hardaway. And then Shaq begins this tour of domination. after that, where he wasn't better than Michael Jordan, like for the last few years of Mike. But the most dominant player we've ever seen,

that took place during that six-year stretch, like where he was in shape, took it seriously, both ends of the floor. All you could do was follow him and maybe follow him 20 times and hope to God that he didn't get on the road making free throws. It was unfair.

Now, this leads us to the fun question. When you're really stop and think about it, could this team be better than the 92 team? Is that a rhetorical question? No, no, no. That's a serious question. So here's what I throw out there. For example, the 92 team had Larry Bird,

but we're not talking about an all-MBA caliber player in the version of Larry Bird that they had there. Magic, on one hand, Magic hadn't played for the whole year. On the other hand, Magic was still that dude that year before, right? But it's still. Right. He's a NAPE runner up in 91. Right.

It's still a 13, 33 year old magic that we're talking about here. Right. He was still really good, but it's not like the one thing about magic when we talk about athleticism, my brother always makes this point. Magic had that knee injury, his second year. And that was at a time where the medicine wasn't the same as it was. Like you look at the clips of magic in college and before that, oh, there's athleticism there. But anyway, this is a not very athletic version of him.

Now, it is a better version of Charles Barkley than the one I would say that this team had. That team had Michael Jordan. I would say this team probably had a better version of Scotty Pippen, a better version of Carl Malone, about the same version of John Stockton. That's just what it was. A better version of David Robinson. Plus, we're adding Gary Payton, Akeem Elijah Wyn, Shaquille O'Neill, Grand Hill, and Petty Hardaway. Right?

Now, on the other side, like we said, a superior version of Charles Barkley. I think the other thing with this team, too, is they weren't worried about how many white dudes were on the team, right? That's why this team does not have a Christian Leightner, for example. No. This team does not have a Chris Mullen. Mullen's one that if you were there, it made perfect sense for Mullen to be on the team in a world that Dominique Wilkins did not exist, right? But, you know, you could see it. But I don't think Chris Mullen makes this team.

maybe he'd take Mitch Richmond's spot. Yeah, I mean, I understand the case for Mullen being on 92 because of birds back. And if you're building a team and I bark back against, man, you got to have all this on a team. You're beating everybody by 60. Like the whole thing about Isaiah can't be on the dream team because you need shooting. I heard Jackie McMullen or somebody that I really respect say something like that. I'm like, man, you worried about zone busters on a 92 dream team. All right, whatever.

You are carrying somebody's water, right? And we can just leave it at that. But if you're going to say, hey, if we got bird on this team and we worried about birds back leaving because that's what we were in the career of Larry Bird, then you go get bird light. You know what I mean? You go get left bird. How about this?

Have any two guys been more similar yet less similar than Larry Bird and Chris Bullitt? White. Crew cut. Yeah. Right, crew cut. And then they start talking. Look, Chris Mullen is from, I forgot what borough he's from. He's from Queens, I want to say.

He's in Queens of Brooklyn. I can't remember which. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look, yeah, I don't spend too much time. I don't spend too much time in Queens. But the point is, that man grew up like in New York. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no. Chris Mullen had the most New York accent.

He was no white dude who sounded like a black dude ever got more respect than Chris Mullen. He's from Brooklyn. Yes. And to your point, here's what I will say about Magic Johnson. And you're saying that Magic maybe wasn't what he was. If Magic three years later comes back to the NBA at age 35 or 36, I think, and gives you 16, 7 and 6 for a dog Lakers team plus on 255 pounds, I think 92 Magic, if we rewinded three years,

I think 92 Magic is still a really, really dominant player. Yeah, yeah. He'd still make that team. Like, he did not make that team as a lifetime achievement award. He made that team because he was still one of the 12 best players in the world and still the best player at his position, even a year after. By the way, right fast with the Chris Mullen Wiki page, the early life goes like this. This is so,

this is so all over the place. Mullen was born in Brooklyn. As a young player in New York, he studied the games and Nick Starrs, Walt Frazier, and Earl Monroe, while admiring Larry Bird and wearing number 17 in honor of John Havlachek. As a youth, he regularly traveled to the Bronx in Harlem and predominantly black neighborhoods to play against the

best players in New York City. Like, it is very, like, all the racial coding in the Chris Mullen thing was all over the place, but no white man has ever been treated quite like black in the way that we allow Chris Mullen. No, no, no. I mean, look,

we don't hold Chris Mullen in the same reverence that we hold the bird man. You know what I mean? Yeah, that would be crazy. Yeah, but you got to think, the fact that Chris Mullen was able to bounce back from like the alcohol and everything else that he was going through to make it to the Olympic team

in 92 and still be out there giving you 25, I'm with you. So to your point, could 96 beat 92? I will say this. Penny Hardaway and Grand Hill was on that 92 select team that gave the 92 Olympic team the blues in that practice game. That is true.

It's different. It's different, right? And Michael Jordan, the 92 version of Michael Jordan might be the best version of Michael Jordan ever, right? Like, go look at his finals against Portland, which we don't really talk about aside from game one. He was like 35, 7, and 6 on 52, 42 splits. Like, that was the best of Michael Jordan that was to come. so maybe he's the equalizer, so to speak. Well, let me ask you this.

Do you think the 1992 version of Patrick Ewing could make this team, the 1960, because I don't think so. Oh, no, no, I don't think he makes, that's crazy. Yeah, yeah, and 92 Patrick Ewing is a really, really, really good player. I don't think that he could wind up. Does, okay, I do think this. If I say, does the 92 version of Clyde Drexler make this team? I do that. Mitch Richmond is going home.

Right. Right. Right. The 92, the 92 versus the Clyde Drexler is sending Mitch Richmond home is sending Reggie Miller home. Um, honestly, the 92 versus the Clyde Drexler, Grand Hill, we got to have a talk. No, no, we don't. No, we don't. The year, Grant Hill, you're saying that Grand Hill after two years was better than peak Clyde Drexler. I'm saying Grant Hill after two years, was better than Scotty Pippin. Scotty's going home. Oh, God. Why did I not see that coming? You were so ready.

You were ready. The timing on that was so impeccable. Scotty's out of here. I knew you didn't see it. I'm like, oh, I can't wait to land this plane. No, I was like, wait a bit, are you sure? Do you have to have to recall that as Clyde Drexler, MVP runner up?

You're like, no. Scotty. Sorry. Scottie's out of here in 96. Go home. I'm with you. Clyde's sending some people home. He's sending him Pip home.

You can leave the shoes, Pip. Those air max up tempos was legit, especially those Olympic joints. But Scotty's going to the crib. Because you got to remember, 97 was the last great Scotty Piping year. Correct. Correct.

Scottie was cooked as a superstar player post back injury, foot injury. Clyde in 92, like you said, you can say what you want about him getting torched by Mike, but everybody would have got that work at that point. So, yeah, there's the discussion. Clyde in 92 or Pipp in 96. Not Grant Hill or Penny, please. You're totally correct.

Like, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I, I am with you. Like, now that I think about it. This is also, like, 96 was the last great dream year. Yes. 97 is a very good dream. 97 is a very good Barclay. 97 is a pretty good clot. But, like, this was the end of just,

the 92 through 96 dream. Freak. Nothing you could do. Dude. Remember, that was it 91 that Cartwright got him in the eye? Yep. Once again. At what point, we're going to be talking about the graveyard of body parts

that Bill Cartwright done claims? I know that we don't put them in the same boat as the Lamb Beards of the world, but he got just as many body parts, if not more. Like, y'all, when we go have this conversation? Hey, man, I would say, I'd tell you, I need to be glad. If I was running the spurs, I'd send Victor to goddamn Bill Cartwright, Big Man Camp. Y'all be terrified to do anything with him. But, no, it's funny you said that because, like you said,

the best of the rest of Elijah won, like the drop-off was starting to have. happen with him. Like, Carl Malone was never going to be any better. Like, he won MVP in 97, but you could make the argument that he had better years. Like, he was in his early 30s at that point. But that was during the time where if you're in your early 30s, this is when the drop-off starts to happen. If not, like, retirement.

Like, we've changed the paradigm on what early 30s, mid-30s basketball looks like. So when people talk about Charles Berthel, you went ring chasing in 96 to go, you know, to go from Phoenix to Houston. That's what dudes did back then. Like, that was what life was like back then. Like Charles Barkley wasn't going to carry a team. It's just now that because LeBron has changed it, Kevin Durant has changed it,

Steph has changed it. We want to reevaluate what life was like back then. No, no, no. That was the norm back then. No, you go find, it makes sense. You go find a good team and you play for. Right? They got hard to figure out.

Like, Kevin Durant, it was just like, damn. It's just not fair. Right. Like he didn't do anything wrong. It was weird, right? Like, I know why it hit people funny. But yeah, no, you go find a good team to play for and then you go play for the good team. That's what everybody does, right? Like, this is, this is just what it is. Yeah, it's shifted. Like, like, the whole thing, like Charles Barkley spent nine years in Philly. Mm-hmm. Dudes ain't given no franchise nine years no more. Yeah, he gave him eight. Well, no, you'll give him mate because you get, well, you're going to be. Well, no, you'll give him mate because you get, well, you, you, to be you give them eight because you give them two deals.

But now that nobody goes to free agency. You give them seven. Yeah. And you get traded. If you give them seven, right? If you give them seven. If you give them seven. But I'd tell you this, you ain't get no answer.

That's why. Like, we haven't, hopefully we have fully contextualized, like how freaky these dudes are. You know what I mean? Like, like Charles Barclay being the leading score in 96, after being the leading score in 92. and you can see the downship from 92 to 96, but it still looks like a dream team. In 2000, it don't look like a dream team.

In 2004, it damn sure don't look like a dream team. Like, that was the last of the, we are scared of, the world is scared of the United States. Like, you could put the best of the world against the United States and the United States would kill everybody. Like, that's the last time you could actually say that. Like, we didn't know the world was catching up in 96. They were starting to.

In 2000, it was like, like, man, the world then caught up. Like, they just happened to win, but the world had caught up by 2000. I mean, they were one in the final about like two points. Yeah. No, no, no. Like, we just didn't know any better.

Like, man, I'm going with the 92 team, and it's for the reason that made the youngsters very upset. Mm-hmm. Him. Yeah, they got Mike. Hel. Like, if this is at all close, him.

They got Mike. Him. That's all. That black cat. That's it. That's it. That's it. They got him.

They got Mike. Mike and Magic and Peak Chuck. Yeah, man. I think it. I can't bet it. Okay, pick against that. Peak, like, like, think about this. Peak Chuck was going to give you 28, 14, and 5.

Yeah. And wasn't even in like the greatest of shapes. It wasn't even that ball dominant. No. Because he was getting to the, he could, he could get to the line, which meant he could slow the game down, right? Like, if you're going on a 9-0 run, get the ball to Chuck, get in the post, either you're getting in the bucket or you're getting a foul and you're getting the chance to,

like, you're getting a chance to recalibrate yourself. Like, that is something that's so underrated about, like, stopping the 9-2 run or stopping the 10-2 run, get the ball to Charles for a couple of possessions, settle things down, lose the variance, and then everybody gets their feet under them. Like, that's how great Chuck was, man. It was just, and then we talk about Chuck like, man, he got an MVP, you went to the finals once, but you left so much on the table.

This motherfucker was 6.5. Sorry, Mr. Brown. But he was 6.5. Now, he, the original KG should have got out of there sooner. While you're out there with Mike Over, no, Mike, Mike Jeminski? Yeah, I was definitely thinking I was going to get to Mike Jemisky. Let me tell you, I'll tell you that Mike Javisky story later.

But yeah, no, I'm 92. Sorry, 96. You have a grievance, but you don't. You do, but you don't. Vity Goodwill, check him out. Covering the NBA for ESPN. My brother, I appreciate you. Yes, sir.

All right, now, ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us here on the right time. We do this three days a week, sometimes less, sometimes more during the summer. Ryan Brumley handed everything behind the scenes. Thank you, sir. Hit the voicemail line 3-2-3-9-6-77-67. Remember, follow the right time.

Subscribe, like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe. believe you are a hater. What's all you guys in a couple of days? Take it easy.