The Ringer NFL Show - 2023’s Most Interesting Fantasy Tight Ends

Episode Date: May 17, 2023

Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck highlight a handful of the most interesting fantasy tight ends going into the 2023 season with help from The Ringer’s 2023 Fantasy Football Rankings (3:18). Finally, the guys close with emails (41:25). Darren Waller, New York Giants (3:18) Travis Kelce, Kansas City Chiefs (10:59) Mark Andrews, Baltimore Ravens (19:23) Kyle Pitts, Atlanta Falcons (23:58) Chig Okonkwo, Tennessee Titans (33:19) Dalton Schultz, Houston Texans (41:25) Check out our 2023 Ringer Fantasy Football Rankings here! Email us! [e-mail] Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Producers: Craig Horlbeck and Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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get sent to the fantasy email I see on my phone. It doesn't make a sound, it just shows up. What did you say was the email you got while you were in bed with Liz? Oh, God. What a weird way to start this show.

I don't remember. I can't remember. I'm trying to remember too. I remember that, though. She's like, what are you doing, honey? He's like, oh, this guy had sex at a mini golf course. It's where the kids are fucking.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think it was like people had sex on top of a hill or in a park or something? On money? We usually do this at the end of the show, but you know, it's May, so whatever.

Anyone who doesn't stick around, that's what you've been missing. So today, we are previewing the tight end position for 2023. We're not going to go over every tight end. We're going to go over the guys that either gave us trouble when we were ranking them, frisky little guys, or just guys we disagreed on? I don't know. Some guys are just boring.

Let's be honest. Yeah, he's just the most interesting guys. So before we start, though, I wanted to kind of just start with like a little table sitter here. here, which is we always bitch about tight end. Like during the season, streaming tight ends is I actually think the single worst part of fantasy football. And I wanted to ask you guys, if you look at our tiers at fantasy football dot the ranger

where you can see our rankings are top 200 to everything. Click on the little tight end logo. You can see our tiers and look along with us. I wanted to ask you, Danny Kelly. Yes. How far down, obviously Travis Kelsey, great, number one tight end. How far down our tight end rankings do you get like a physical dread at the idea of this person playing for you?

let's see probably like seven yeah that's right i was going to say six usually top six it's like okay and then it's like oh i'm i'm in deep water here yeah it's like this could go very sideways darren wallers when you get physical dread we got darren waller evan angram david and david and jok and pat frayermuth that's our like fifth year of guys those guys i actually feel good about them and jok and fri mcm and grimm and waller this is the mistake you make every offseason though feeling good about those guys you've already fallen into their trap you're already there. I was going to start with Kelsey, but should we just start with Darren Waller?

I mean, we can. Let's just do it. Just start with Darren Wall. I'm surprised because obviously he's injured and injury prone. It doesn't play much. But part of me is like with tight ends, what we're looking, all right, Craig's like, yeah, no. Yeah, he doesn't play much. That's the problem. I guess I answered my own question. He's 30 years old, injury prone on a brand new team and Daniel Jones is quarterback. But other than that, I feel great. Okay. So how many tight ends in the entire NFL are like the leading receiver for their team? It's Travis Kelsey, it's Mark Andrews, and he's competition now for the first time and forever. And then what?

Like, Kyle Pitts, maybe over Drake, Leonard, Falcons, like, Darren Waller, my point being, Darren Waller is one of the only people that you could actually argue if he stays on the field could pretty easily leave the Giants and catches yards and touchdowns. I mean, I think that's the cool thing about Darren Waller is that he has the upside to be, you know, top three tight end in the NFL. But the problem is, like, it's a huge, huge projection. We're already, like you said, he's been pretty injured the last two years. His play has fallen off.

He sort of fell out of favor with the Raiders. And now going into this year with a new team, new quarterback, new play caller, all these different variables. There's just a million variables that I don't really feel all that great about. But that being said, yes, he does have elite upside. I mean, I think that's clear. He's done it in the past. He's put up a massive numbers. He put up 1100-yard season in 2019.

Back to back. 2019 and 20. Yeah, sorry, that's correct. He had actually a better season in 2020. So I don't know. I just look at it. He definitely has done it before, which is always a plus,

but going on a new team and hoping that he doesn't get hurt again, which I think, you know, is a big projection. This is why he's ranked lower than, you know, maybe should be. He hasn't played more than 11 games in his season since 2020.

And you know how many seasons he has with more than three touchdowns? One in his entire career. This is really fun because I'm realizing now, this is the first conversation in my in my entire life where like not entire life but my first conversation since waller got traded the giants where i'm getting the fan tribalism like he's my guy now i'm like oh i'm defending i'm like you're talking shit about darren waller and i'm just like well yeah he fell out of favor of the raiders he didn't fall in favor of the raiders he fell out of fidders with josh mcdniels to his wedding

which everybody falls out of favor with josh mcdniels that's the thing that's my point josh mcdneyal hates everyone there you go so maybe this is that right maybe that's right It's actually a good thing. That's a real thing. He didn't invite Josh McDaniels to his wedding. Oh, my God. Did you not? So Darren Waller's date, who's his wife?

She's then a W&B player for the Aces? I think so. Darren Waller's wife is Kelsey Plum, who is a really, really good W&B player. Oh, she's the left-handed with a cannon, right? Yeah, she's the one who threw the viral video the T-shirt. I think she threw it further. She might, that's, this is a good point. I actually think Darren Waller's wife might be able to throw it further than most

of the quarterbacks Darren Waller has played for. She's got an actual missile of an arm. Yeah. I don't, she threw it into the upper deck through the tunnel. Also good at basketball. Why? Oh, yeah.

Well, they won the title. So, anyway, they did invite her the wedding. And oh my God, where's the tweet? Hell yeah. She's from San Diego. Shouts out. La Jolla, real west coaster. Went to Udub, D.K.

I know. I was trying to remember. She definitely has a Seattle connection. She went to Washington. Oh, she was the first overall pick in the drafts of 2017. As I said, good at basketball also. in addition to having a canon. So what happened was RG3 tweeted that Darren Waller just got married.

This is in March. Darren Waller just got married to Kelsey Plum. And Josh McDaniels's wedding present was to trade Darren Wilder the New York Giants. And then Kelsey Plum quote tweeted it and said probably because he was not invited to the wedding wall. Wow. I just realized how brutal that is for him considering she plays in Vegas and he was in Vegas. That stinks. Yeah.

Transitioning back to football here. High Fitz, I think that what you're saying is very interesting actually because I don't know if I really considered it that he could be one of very few. you know, tight ends in the NFL that is the number one or number two option in his offense. But my worry is, and maybe this doesn't matter, last year, Daniel Jones passed to tight ends at almost the lowest rate of any quarterback in the NFL. Now, part of that is probably because he had rookie Daniel Bellinger as like his only tight end for most of the season. But does that worry you at all that he basically just doesn't throw his tight ends?

Or maybe it doesn't matter because he just throws short every time. literally not. I, there's a whole Daniel Jones conversation to have here that we can put off right now. But I think the short answer is that the stats from Daniel Jones, and again, maybe I'm an irrational Giants fan. You have to pick and choose because it's kind of weird to just take them at face value where it's like the Giants were down five receivers last year. Jason Garrett was the coordinator. As you said, they did a rookie tight end. The reason of that word is they traded for Darren Waller.

They didn't get him to block. It's essentially a receiver. Yeah. Yeah, he's a receiver. It's like they didn't trade for Darren Waller to not throw him. the ball. They traded for Darren Waller because they didn't have any one like that before, which is probably who they were looking for Jones to throw. So

I think basically, I guess let me flip it back to you. Because I am right. I agree with both of you that if Waller gets hurt, you'll feel dumb for taking him thinking he'll be healthy. Having said that, if I told you Darren Waller played 17 games and all the tight ends played 17 games, where would you have him on this list? Because I don't think he'd be the 90th pick. I don't know. He's

our tight end seven. If you told me that every tight end played 17 games. I don't know if I'm putting him ahead of Dallas Goddard or Kyle Pitts. Yeah, Kiddell, Hawkinson. No, I don't think so. Because Waller's whole thing is like targets, right? Like, there was like that crazy game where he has like 23 targets in a game. The Raiders were always, it seemed like top five, top seven in passing attempts. It was always just Derek Carr funneling the ball to Darren Waller. And it kind of just doesn't feel like that's what the Giants are going to do. They have so many options. We've joked about how many damn receivers they have on their team. They obviously

still have Sequin Barkley. I don't know. Is Darren Waller going to get up? 125 targets? You guys are really killing my buzz, man. Jeez. Maybe he's the supreme slot receiver of the slot receiver. Here's the thing about our rankings is I think they're appropriate. I think Darren Waller is the tight end seven. I think that's correct.

No, I think so too, but I, yeah, I just, I don't get the dread. That's all. I don't have dread for taking Darren Waller. Did you know that last year he was actually the tight end seven and half PPR points per game? Like it didn't feel like he existed last year. He was the tight end seven in points per year. What did he play like six games? He played seven games with over 50% snaps.

I think he had a couple games where he got hurt right away. He was battling a hamstring injury for most of the year. And then I'm trying to remember. I feel like once he even got healthy, then they just really didn't bother integrating him into the offense. They were just kind of like, eh. They didn't bother. Don't you guys feel like the second the NFL season ends?

I should say the second the draft ends, like my memory of what happened in the 2022 season just completely disappears. It's kind of like the penitimate. where I'm like, oh yeah, wait, I just sat and watched the British baking show and drank for like 15 days in a row. Like that's, I don't remember that at all. Like in my mind, I'm like, Robert Woods is just on the Rams, right? I'm like, oh, no, he's actually been like, I just totally have to like redownload everything every May. You'll get there.

I remember once we were talking about when Brandon Cooks dropped the touchdown pass for the Rams to win the Super Bowl. And D.K. was like, Brandon Cooks was on the Rams? Really? Brayette Cooks has been traded to every team in the NFL. in my defense. No, you're right. He's the Russell Westbrook of wide receivers. What team is he on?

He's on the Cowboys. I have to like actually think about that. Oh my God. And nobody will draft him and then he'll be pretty good. He'll have on a thousand yards. Should we talk about Travis Kelsey? I mean, I feel like we got it. Yeah.

All right. This is the year. This is the year. I'm in. I'm in. Death taxes and Travis Kelsey. Okay. I'm in.

We have him. ranked at fantasy football.3.com. We have a member seventh player. And I'm telling you guys this right now. I'm actually going to move him up. I'm moving him up. I'm not even kidding you. At all costs. Draft Kelsey. I'm serious. Like, I think the short answer

is when can I take Travis Kelsey? It's when he's, when you're on the clock, you can take him. I swear to God, I'm at the point now where I'm like, I, so just to set the table here, last year, Travis Kelsey literally had the best season ever for fantasy football tight end. Like, compared to how the other tenets scored. There have been other seasons

where tight end scored more. Travis Kelsey has actually scored more in a season than last year in his own career. Rob Grankowski's had seasons. We had more. But compared to every other tight end in a season relative, Travis Kelsey had the most valuable season ever, period. He had 261 points in PPR. T.J. Hawkinson was in second place. He had 90 fewer points than Kelsey. That's 15 touchdowns of fantasy football. That is the gap between one and too. Like the gap between Kelsey and Hawkinson at first and second was the same as the gap

between Hawkinson and second and Mike Gisicki at 20 second. That's how big the freaking chasm was. It's like, so again, the most valuable season ever for a fantasy football tight end. And I'm kind of like,

if Travis Kelsey was a wide receiver, like if he was just a wide receiver, where would we rank him? Because last year, he had 110 catches, which is just behind Justin Jefferson and Tyree Kill, 12 touchdowns, just behind Devante Adams, like second to him, 78 first downs, only behind Devante Adams,

eighth in receiving yards. Where would you rank him if he was just a wide receiver? I think right around Devante Adams. So what if Devante Adams was a tight end? Where would you take him? Right. I'm going to take him force. Take him high.

Yeah. You know that those two stats you just listed high if it's catches and touchdowns, 110 catches, 12 touchdowns? Those are career highs for him? It's 33 years old. Yeah, it's almost like Tyree Kill left, and we talked ourselves out of this being the best year of his career. It's insane.

And so here's the other thing. Literally, and tell me if I'm wrong, but literally, literally, literally, literally, the only reason you can say against Travis Kelsey is that he's old. Like he's 33. Like, there's not actually another thing. Here's what blew my mind. And I think that I have somehow not fully appreciated. Travis Kelsey hasn't missed a game due to injury in nine fucking years. Nine years?

Nine years. Nine years. He's missed three games in those nine years. Two were because the Chiefs had clinched a playoff spot and rested their starters in the last week of the regular season. The other one was he had COVID in 2021. That's it. Wow. He's missed three games in nine years.

None of them were at injury. So I'm like, well, the only reason we're taking Jamar Chase ahead of Travis Kelsey is that Jamar Chase a decade younger. Jamar Chase missed more games to injury last year than Kelsey has almost this entire career. There really is no good reason that's taking. It's like what? Except Travis Kelsey's fucking tight end. I'm taking him fourth. It's like I'm going to take McCaffrey and Justin Jefferson before him.

Maybe, but I'm like, I actually might take him third. Like when I go into this, I'm like, I am, it's like anxiety. I feel like I'm like I need a therapist. I'm like, I have avoided taking Kelsey all these years. I just take him third or fourth. He's the best player at the position. I'm looking this up as we talk. Tony Gonzalez played till he was 37.

Greg Olson played till he was 34, 35. Antonio Gates played till he was. he was 38. Travis Kelsey might just be in his prime still. Well, that's the thing. So there's two things about that that are important. One,

him not blocking the physical toll, too, obviously all the health differences and everything Tom Brady, you know, the new wave of injury recovery. But most importantly, I actually think that Travis Kelsey has been done a disservice

because he was very injured in college. He fell in the draft because he was injured and he missed his entire rookie year because he had a knee micro fracture. So he didn't play as a rookie. He did the travis EATN, basically, where he didn't play. But I actually think what happened out of that is he actually now takes care of his body and always has like incredibly well to the point where having the injury prone label early is almost, we don't think of as an iron man, nine years as a tight end.

He hasn't been hurt. Nice job, jinks in him. Yeah, I know. So that's the thing. So I'm going to take him third this year and everyone else should avoid him and I'll bite the bullet on all of your behalf. You're welcome. Yeah, no one really talks about like everyone talks about the quarterbacks playing your Brady's playing, you know, Rogers is 40, Brady to 45. even in the NBA, it's like, LeBron's still averaging 29 points a game and he's 38.

Look at what Steph's doing at 35. Like, all these guys are just still like completely in their prime. And Travis Kelsey's doing the exact same thing and nobody really talks about it. Are we making up a straw man though? Like, are people saying they're not going to draft Kelsey anymore? No, what I'm saying is I'm saying that we have him seventh and I'm like, but why aren't we taking him third? That's honestly my question. It's like there's McAfre and Justin Jefferson.

Why am I going to take Austin Echler over Travis Kelsey? And that sounds crazy. Would you take him first? I think if you do, what I'm saying now that I've changed my mind on is, why do I care so much? Yeah. If you want to take him, like, yeah, do it. Hasn't been a bad idea since like, I don't know, 2013. Where were you in 2013?

That's the last year that would have been a bad idea. A very different person back then, yeah. Hi, Vitz, you said he was 33 years old. Let me know if this changes your opinion on him this year. He'll be 34 in October. Oh, dear. How old would he have to be for you to start to waver? if he kept doing this every year.

Yeah. Like if he was 38 right now, would you be like, I don't care. He's still put up 1,300 yards. I think for me, this kind of gets into like where you think the late 30s are. I think 33 and 34,

I'd say they're the same number to me. They mean nothing. I think 36 sounds older than even 35. Like a lot older. Like there's a mental gap. Even 35. 36, I start to get nervous. That's how number is worse.

I swear. Travis Kelsey plays like LeBron now where it's like, I don't even know if, like, does Travis Kelsey get tackled? Like I would love to know how many times he takes a hard hit. He is so savvy and he just sits in these little pockets, catches his pass, kind of runs to this part of the field where there's no defenders and then it kind of goes down. He gets knocked over. He doesn't get hit hard. Yeah. He gets knocked. He just picks his spots and then just kind of like quietly has nine catches in a game. But every single one of them is in this perfect position where he's immune to getting injured. He's in the post, drops. step in, like, no one can touch him. I just love how he moves. It's also worth noting that there's no target competition again. Like, you know, not your beloved Cadarious Tony, but it's just Travis Kelsey, Cadarist Tony, Skymore, and Marquezvolda Skintling. Like, it's just, there's nobody on this team. When their best receiver, yeah, when their best receiver plays five snaps a game, I mean,

he's going to, he's going to have a lot, he's going to have a million targets. There's because I think athletes have two primes. There's your athletic prime, which is when you're like, you know, 25 to 28. And then I think is your mental prime, which is like in your, early to mid-30s where you understand the game at a level that you did not previously. And you're maybe a little bit diminished athletically, but combined, you're actually a better player than you were at your athletic peak. Is this the part of the podcast where we have to note that every time Craig mentions entering

the 30s, it's actually just him talking to himself. And Craig is convincing himself that leaving his physical prime is okay because he'll enter his mental prime really soon. Well, I'm not a professional athlete, so I don't think it really applies to me. But, you know, my pickup game hopefully gets better. No, I think you're right, though. It will. There's this period where you have 80% of your

athleticism, but you're smarter than you've ever been by like a lot. And that was Brady, right? He had 80% of his liticism and 600% of the knowledge. And I do think that is where Kelsey still is. And at some point, I'm like, I guess here's my thing. What am I afraid of? What are we afraid of? I'll tell you.

You spending $62 on Travis Kelsey, and this is the first year he's washed, and you feel like an absolute idiot. And your season's kind of over. because you spent $55 on a tight end that is terrible now. Yeah, but you could have that at any position. You could have that at any player. That's the thing.

It's never happened before. So like, let's stop worrying about it. Like, I feel free. If you don't take Kelsey, if you miss. Honestly, the real answer is let's see you have like the eighth pick in the draft or ninth or tenth or whatever and you can't, and he's gone. How do you feel about reaching for like Mark Andrews, which is like you're paying for it, but you might just not get so.

Like, how do you feel about Mark Andrews this year, D.K.? You know what? Mark Andrews is. really good. When he's not volleyball setting a pass into the first row, he's generally a very good player. I just, I'll, again, I will say this again. I cannot get that image out of my head of him trying to catch a pass in the end zone and essentially just volleyball setting it into the stands. But that being said, going back to the last three years, 2022, he was the tight end three,

2021, he was a tight end one and 2020. He was a tight end four in half PVR. Like, he's really good. He has a ton of volume, which is crucial. Going back to the last three years, Lamar Jackson, number one, in pass rate to tight ends. 32% pass rate to tight ends. Now, granted, that might change

with the new offense coordinator. There's a little bit more, um, target competition, Zay Flowers, O'Dell Beckham, return of Roshad Bateman. Nelson Aguilar is there.

Maybe they get more looks for Isaiah likely. I don't know. But at the end of the day, like he's still, Lamar Jackson's security blanket over the middle of field. That's where he likes to throw the ball. And that's where he, you know,

he passes to tight ends more than any other position. So I don't really think that's going to change all that much. I still think that Mark Andrews is still going to be the number one guy. So despite that image that's burned into my head, yeah, like Mark Andrews is worth grabbing, for sure. I don't know why Mark Andrews has never really sat well with me. I don't know why. He just like- Give you a tummy ache? Yeah, he just gives me a tummy ache.

I don't really know. I know everybody likes him, but he's like blue cheese to me. It's a blue cheese. You're like, not for me. It's just not, I don't really get it. I think that although there are seasons where he is similar to Travis Kelsey, I think there's something about the consistency of Kelsey where, like, Every game, Travis Kelsey is going to get you 10 to 15 points.

Mark Gantress has always felt like he just disappears where it's like one game he could literally have one catch for nine yards. And then the next week he has like 180 yards and three touchdowns. And I think because of that, he's felt more frustrated to me. And I kind of like to veer away from those type of players. Well, you know why? I think with, like, Kelsey, we know why he's good. We know his game.

I think we know a ton about Travis Kelsey. And for the most part, if we look down our rankings, I think we could more or less explain like what players' roles are and how good things. are and I'm like, someone asked me, why is Mark Andrews good? I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Why's he always getting the, I see how he always hope? I don't know. He's a really good route runner. Actually, I pulled this up. He was, he ran against man coverage. He averaged 2.6 yards for route run, which is number one. I know, but like, why? Like, he's really good at getting open.

I know, but like, it's crazy to think that who are the Ravens receivers to end the year? Devin DuVernet, DuVernet, and, um, freaking, I can't even name the guys. That's the point. Yeah. We can't remember. And it's, I mean, he was hurt down stretch too, but I think with Andrews, it's kind of like, all right, well, we'll having Bateman healthy and O'Dell Beckham and Zay Flowers affect him. Well, not if they pass more, right? Well, will they pass more?

And I think that that's where we get to the point. Does John Harbaugh want to pass or not? Because we don't know. Like, all that blame has been put on Greg Robin and Greg Roman and Greg Roman's kind of like, you know, taking the brunt of, you know, and he did have a medieval offense. But it's not like John Harbo is just like a passive character. and been like, yeah, no, great. I don't know what's going. John Harbaugh runs the team.

So, like, the question I feel like for the Ravens is like, what does John Harbaugh want for this offense? Because we've been talking like, why the hell don't the Ravens run the spread? Like, I always feel like 10 years from now, Lamar is going to run the spread for a different team. And we'll be like, why the fuck weren't they doing that the whole time? Right.

But I don't know if that's what a Harbaugh wants. The Ravens are the hardest team to reject, I think. Because we, number one, we've soured a little bit, I think, on Lamar over the last few years, just a little bit. But we have no idea what kind of offense they're going to run. here. You know, like Lamar, how much influences he wield? Like, did he have, you know, did he make signing with the team, resigning with the team? Did he make like, you know, ultimatums and stuff with the team on how they're going to run their offense? Like, that's the kind of thing I'm

curious about. The Odell Beckham signing was basically like if you get an, if you fuck up with your significant other and you have to get them like flowers or a gift or something to make up like that was, like you come on with flowers after an argument. That was Odell Beckham signing with the Ravens. So I don't know what this offense is going to look like. It's going to be fun. It's going to be very interesting. But at the end of the day, like, Mark Andrews is clearly the Titan 3, right? Or the Titan 2, sorry. He's pretty clearly the second guy. Yeah. I think so.

That's why he's in a tier of his own for us, as all as Kelsey. Yeah. So we have Kelsey getting his own tier, and then we have Andrews getting his own tier. Speaking of guys in their own tier. Yeah. So we've got Hawkins and Kittle Goddard in a tier. And then another person, he has to get his own tier. It's Kyle Pitts. I love, what the hell do we do? I love solo tiers that aren't at the top.

I think they're hilarious. It's just like, our ninth best tight end is in his own tier. It shrug. It felt like, so, yeah, so Fitzs are six tight end?

It felt a little ridiculous. Like, are we just doing a bit here to give him his own tier? And then we thought about it. We're like, he's not like anyone else. He's not.

Like, you can't convince, yeah, it's like Kyle Pitts, Dallas God. No, the point of a tier is they're more or less interchangeable

with the other people there. I'm like, Kyle Pitts is like, a one of one. And so I almost, what are your guys's thoughts? Because we have a memento tattoo from last season to not forget. It says, don't trust Kyle Pitts, no matter what. I trust him. I'm back in. Oh my God. I'm definitely drafting him. Yeah, but that's not the question really. It's where, where will you be drafting him and how much money will you be spending on him? That's the thing. So we have Kyle Pitts as the six to ten end. We have him at 12 bucks. Dude, do you know how many yards Kyle Pitts had last

year? Well, I do because I looked all this up. DK. Guess? It's astonishing. I don't know. What was your guess? Say that again? 500? Did I get it wrong? He had 356 yards. Oh, God. Kyle Pitts had fewer yards per game than Khalif Raymond. Oh, God.

Kyle Pitts had fewer catches per game than Ben Scaronic. Oh, my God. He also did not even have the most touchdowns among Falcons tight ends. He has three touchdowns in 27 games. Who had word? Like, Hesse? Michael Michael Pruitt Michael Pruitt Oh my goodness Man so

I'm still in Here's the thing though Those numbers are bad and horrific And don't forget how many fake tight ends we made up That actually like outscored Kyle Pitts every week But Those numbers don't even reflect the emotional toll Like that's the numbers of the numbers

But there was an emotional You feel wronged If you had Kyle Pitts last year Like you feel like wronged Right. And I think that's the thing where, like, you have, it's kind of like Bitcoin. It's like there were these insane promises of like, this will change everything. Kyle Pitts is the most like insane prospect ever. And then it's like suddenly people are talking about, all right, so fire was invented.

And then Kyle Pitts is like, imagine if you could invent, invest in like the internet. That's, you know what I mean? Like that's what Kyle Pitts was like. And I just, I don't feel like we can, I don't know. I just, I can't get back on this train. So are you out then? Well, and yet, here's the problem. The argument for Kyle Pitts as a post type sleeper is really good.

Oh, yeah. Kyle Pitts is 22 years old. He is a full year younger than Dalton Kincaid, who the bill is just drafted in the first round. Dude, the whole, the whole Falcons are like the youngest team ever. Desmond Ritter's their quarterback. He's like 23. Bejohn Robinson is their running back. What is he, 21?

Drake London is like 22. And Kyle Pitts is like 22. The whole team is like could just got their first beer last month. That's the thing. It's like, we're mad that Kyle Pitts. had a thousand yards, the second tight end ever of a thousand yards as a rookie. He was 20, turn 21 in the middle of the season.

And then at a bad second year with Marcus Mariotto, who had a nerve injury and we're like, meanwhile, Dalton Kincaid goes in the first round. When Dalton Kincaid was Kyle Pitts' age, he was like trucking like USC defensive backs who were going to be selling insurance soon. You know what I mean? It's like Kyle Pitts was actually playing the New Orleans Saints.

So the thing with Pitts is if you actually look at it, as Matt as, you know, D.K. got with Arthur Smith last year. The reality is actually... Kyle Pitts actually had the most targets per route run among all tight ends. Cool. Pro football focus. Like he had the most targets per route run. He also had the most like deep targets of all tight ends.

Like they were throwing in the ball a lot and they were throwing him deep a lot. But Mario does suck because Kyle Pitts actually the lowest number of catchable passes out of all tight ends. He was first in targets per route and last in catchable targets. So it's like, yeah, Mario had a nerve injury. And then now he never, Kyle Pitts never. play with Desmond Ritter. Desmond Ritter, Taylor Hineke's the quarterback. It's not a hard argument to see Kyle Pitts being better.

There's a video circulating today on Twitter that is basically all of Kyle Pitts's 20-plus yard targets. And good God. Mario da is just chucking it like 20 yards over his head. And these are like pretty good, easy play action shots downfield where Kyle Pitts has a step on the DV or whatever, the safety. And he's just chucking it over his head. it's so frustrating to watch, but also

it kind of gives you some hope that if Ritter can actually just hit a guy in stride like any normal quarterback should be able to do, maybe he's actually going to be like the post type sleeper thing I think is actually real. Look, obviously we're all secretly into Kyle Pitts again this year. We all know that. Obviously. Kink shaming.

I mean, the average six targets a game. Like, that's like 100, what is that, 115 targets-ish on the season, 100 targets? Like, if he keeps that up and the offense should be better, I think it makes a lot of sense. You know, it's funny. Highfuss, when you mentioned the targets per route run stat, as I'm looking at true media doing stuff for the players I have coming up on this episode.

And I filtered, I was looking at targets per route run, and I filtered the tight ends based on guys who received at least 30 catches or more. So when you said that, I was like, weird. Kyle Pitts didn't pop up on my rankings because he caught 28 balls last year. Oh, God. I thought like a reasonable base.

line was like, all right, they had to have caught, I don't know, 30 catches last year. And he didn't make a cut. Cal Fitzsus isn't there. That, dude, the actual list of like the people who, do you know, again, he played 10 games and he was out. And that's actually, I think, the sneaky reason we have to come back to. But if you actually just look at the list of people who, like, he was tied with, like, Noah Gray, it's like the backup chiefs tit on had basically Kyle Pitts them.

He did it in more games. But the one reason I'm like a little afraid is he had, and this is where I'm out is two reasons. One, where's the discount. Everything we're saying is going to be baked into where you actually have. to draft him. Like, if you look at underdog average draft position, which is like a more probably like best ball, more accurate reflection of like where like your draft will be, Cow Pitts is going like high, like early 60s, like 63.

So like, where's my discount for like the season that made everyone who like have to cut him because he was awful? Like if he was going a hundredth, cool. There's no discount on this. Everyone's like, yeah, he's still cool and sexy. The flip side is he tours MCL in November. Like he tours MCL. That's the reason he was after the season.

missed all those games. So, like, I want to see the guy play football. You know what I mean? Like, the whole thing is based on him being really athletic. Like, I want to see what happens after this MCL. I mean, this is the problem with tight ends that are not named Travis Kelsey, and I guess Mark Andrews is like, how often does a tight end in the middle rounds actually come through as, like, a top three guy that you envisioned and your, like,

secret formula actually worked? Like, it feels like it never happens. No, it's never happened. What was Hawkinson last year? What was Hawkinson last year? Was he that car or was he too high? In terms of where he was drafted? Hawkinson had fallen, I think,

relative to where he'd gone in previous years because he'd disappointed. Right. He also was kind of bailed out because he had one big game with the Lions, he got traded, and honestly, the Vikings saved his ass. But, like, I don't, like,

it was a very weird experience. I remember people emailed us that they had benched Hawkinson for that game. Oh, yeah, that's right. I mean, yeah, Hawkinson was the fourth tied-in last year in points per game. And, yeah, it's probably just because of a couple big ones. I mean, what he had 200 yards and like three touchdowns,

that one game? Yeah, that was crazy. He had 180 yards and two touchdowns, but he had a touchdowns, but he had not hit 40 yards before that the first three weeks of the season. Although it is unfair to kind of hold that against him. That's like being like, well, Kobe had that one game

right at 82, but that doesn't count. It's like, well, why? I mean, he's winning you on your bench. If you played him. That's fair. That's fair. Yeah, but I doubt you were benching T.J. Hawkinson. No, probably not. So take Kelsey.

And if you can't get Kelsey, if you like blue cheese, take Mark Andrews. I am out on pits until further notice. I'm resisting the siren call. Yeah. I'd rather wait three rounds and get Darren Waller, who's just old Kyle Pitts. I don't know, man. I'm excited about, I'm excited about Waller's potential, but again, it's been like three years since you did it.

But if you miss all these guys, though, waiting on pits to do it once, if you miss all these guys, though, there's ever, speaking of people that never pan out, there's always those like late tight end sleepers. You're like, hey, remember Jimmy Graham that one year, 15 years ago? And you're like, yeah, this is this next guy. And then it never happens. But this year, we have the sleepers. They're going to break out a tight end, right, Craig? Yeah, we do. It's the Tobias Fughey's got to drop it.

It never works, but these people delude themselves into somehow thinking it might. But it might work for us. Did it work for those people? No, it never does. I mean, these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but... But it might work for us. It is the epitome of the late-round tight end. And every year, I think it's my favorite tradition.

It's my favorite research to do in fantasy football. It's like, which guy am I going to unearth and find this gem in the mud? And I got to say, Chig Aquanko? I love that, dude. Hell yeah. If you haven't heard of him, Chig Akonkwo is a tight end for the Tennessee Titans. And don't you guys remember last year? I mean, he was definitely one of those guys who, like, randomly outscored Kyle Pitts, and we were like, who?

Right. But he's a fourth round rookie. Last year, he was a fourth round rookie out of Maryland. Surprisingly solid year, 450 yards of three touchdowns, both better than Kyle Pitts. Damn it! And he only played, it was until week seven, until he played more than 30% of the snaps, and he had 450 yards of three touchdowns. Austin Hooper was ahead of him. Oh, yeah.

But this dude passed the eye test, I think, more than any non, you know, first, round rookie tight end I've seen in a long time. He was just electric. Like, breaks, tackles great after the catch. There are some crazy stats about Chig. Last year, he was second in yards per route run behind our boy Kyle Pitts. I saw this tweet from Scott Barrett today. Last year, Chig had the seventh best season since 2009 in yards per route run amongst

tight ends. Efficiency, baby. Totally. And the reason why this probably is because he's incredibly explosive. He was also first last year. in yards after the catch per reception among tight ends. He just catches the ball and runs 40 yards. He's incredibly athletic.

Ha! I didn't say it. Hell yeah. But he like actually... He is so athletic. He looks like almost like 75% tight end, 25% running back. He's like catches these screen passes and kind of turns into like the receiving version of Derek Henry and just bounces off people.

He averaged 14 yards per catch last year. And if you look at the Titans, man, they did not do a lot to improve the the receiving court. They don't have anyone. Can we do Titans receivers and a lie? I'm going to make up a Titans receiver. Sure. Let's do it. Okay, wait. I'm going to give you a bunch of Titans receivers and I'm also going to pull up a character from the Mario Brothers IMDB.

Pull up one of the voice actors. From what show? The Mario Brothers movie. That's out now. I'll just going to pick out one of those guys. All right. Let's see here. We've got, so Trailer and Berks, obviously, and the Nick Wexperkekekekekeke. All right, we've got Kyle Phillips, Chris Moore, Racy McMath, Eric Bousa, Colton Dowell, Mason Kinsey, Jacob Copeland. Wait, say that, what was the name the second and third names again. Chris Moore, Eric Bousa, Racy McMath, Colton Dowell, Mason Kinsey, Jacob Copeland.

I think Eric Bousa is an actor. Me too. Yeah, he's an actor. Yeah, he's toad. Eric Boussa, oh, he looks familiar, yeah. But yes, you make a good point. They have no one. Either way.

They have Traylon Burks, Nick Westbrookkekekeke and Kyle Phillips are their top three. And then, like I said, they got rid of Austin Hooper. My nickname for him is also Toad. And they have Chig. And it's like they still have Tannhill,

now of Willevis. Listen, if you told me, Hyford, you were talking about Darren Waller being a tight end in the later rounds who could lead their, team in yards or receptions. Maybe that's slightly

unrealistic for Chig, but it's not crazy. Is he like, disrespecting, Colton Dowell? Actually, is he the favorite to be the number two receiver on this team? I mean, actually. These other people are, Nick Westbro, I feel bad. Stephen Riezzo, he says that we have to stop using Nick Westbrook Aquino solely to point out that, like,

how bad the Titans players are. But it's true. Like, I mean, these guys are not, I'm sorry, this is rude and like they work very hard. These guys are not like NFL caliber players. The Titans are just like, they're not. These guys would not make many other teams. Racing McMath?

Who's that? I thought you guys would think he. LSU. I actually remember that guy. But yeah, I mean, Chigg is like legitimately good. And the Titans have nobody to throw to. And he passes the eye test. And everything points in the positive direction, I guess, except if Will Levis comes in and he's terrible. You're right about the eye test too, because a lot of times the Titan has like, you know,

three catches for 60 yards at a time. touchdown. You're like, oh, I'll add them. But then you like watch the game. You're like, oh, well, that was actually like a end around leak play that just works because the defense was like, well, he'll never get the ball. You know what I mean? Like Chicago is actually really talented.

But if you don't get him, who else? Another one that's Dalton Schultz, who I'm sure people listening right now go, oh, right, the Cowboys tight end. He is on the Houston Texans. He's definitely the most boring fantasy tight end. He's ever had a top three fantasy season. That's right. 201, Dalton Schultz

was the number three tied-ended fucking fantasy football. It was him, Travis Kelsey and Mark Andrews. He had 800 years and eight touchdowns. I just blocked the pandemic out. Those two years, I just forgot them. There's no way that's correct.

He's on Houston now. He said a one-year deal. He can make like up to $9 million. And like we said with Tennessee, the receiving core in Houston, they have not done a ton. They have Robert Woods. They have Nico Collins

and they have John Mechie the third. and that's honestly pretty much it. How many teams could we absorb until we got a team that beat the Chiefs? Like if you combined the Titans and Texans and just took their best players, they would not beat the Chiefs. If you added in the Cardinals,

I still think they'd be a pretty bad team. How many teams at the bottom could we absorb until we got a team that could like win a division? You could definitely, I would say Cardinals, Texans, Titans, throwing the Bears. You're right, actually. The Rams? The Rams, you're right.

I guess because it's like Cooper Cup and Hopkins, but every other position is still pretty bad. Right. I mean, Aaron Donald's. Aaron Donald, yeah. Oh, you get Aaron Donald. Fine. But, like, this is a super boring pick, but, I mean,

Dalton Schultz is like a productive. He's, like, the opposite of Chig. He's, like, not very athletic. He doesn't really pass the eye test. He's just there. He's just there. And he's 26 years old. He's, like, pretty much always had productive seasons

every time he's on the field. And if Stroud is half decent, Dalton Schultz is going to catch like 60, 70 balls this year. He just is. I begrudgingly like this. There's nothing sexy about it. This is definitely the epitome of like you're in a draft and a guy who like doesn't do any prep.

It's like, oh yeah, Dalton Schultz. I forgot about her. I heard of him and then he's like top five. Yeah. Like, God damn it. If we want to do like name brand off brand, like if you're thinking about getting Pat Friermuth, I mean, Dalton Schultz is pretty much the same thing.

Yeah. I don't know. Evan Ingram? Like you can just get Dalton Schultz. I cannot wait to have Chicoanquo and be like, two months in watching you know a Conquil highlights and be like I'm so smart while the Travis Kelsey guy is like

10 and 1 undefeat like you know just rolls to the playoffs in a championship and I'm just like man I'm going to be sweating through Chig catching four passes every game maybe while Travis Kelsey's going 12 for 140 watch Mike Braywell just play Josh Wiley the rookie tight end for the

Titans just watch him play him over Chig dude chig is awesome also what a cool name Chig I know he's the coolest I was talking I did a podcast today by the way with East and Freeze in the Hot Read podcast they covered the Titans and both him and his co-host JT they're very excited about Chig

they're like huge Chig guys and they are pretty convinced he's the number two receiver on that team like de facto so well I yeah I think anyone who looks at the list to be like yeah I mean who else maybe Kyle Phillips I guess but he's a slot receiver and he's not going to be out there on

on two receiver sets so I don't know Kyle Phillips, oh my God, look at his photo. He looks so high. Oh, my God. Not even like weed. He looks like he's on freaking like pills. Look at this photo. Oh, yeah, I see him.

But light was super bright. Oh, my God, Kyle Phillips. Am I being mean or are you guys in on this? No, I see that. No, I'm in. Yeah, man. If that was like a mugshot, you'd be like, all right, sorry to call it Kyle Phillips.

All right. Fantasyfutball.3.com. Check out our rankings. Check out everything. We're going to be previewing positions for you guys. Emails? Yeah. Emails.

Was I mean to Kyle Phillips right there? You guys didn't join in on that one. No, I don't. No, I was just frantically Googling it trying to find a photo of Kyle Phillips. But I concur. He looks high as shit. Sober up, Kyle. All right.

It's from Dylan. Dylan. Dill. Dill. I'm going to get right to the. That's our Rugrats. Homes. Homsst among us.

Shout out Tommy Pickle. So baby's got to do. Tommy P. Love Tommy P. Dylan says, I'll get right to the point. Convinced me why I should not draft two of the best three or four tight ends, ideally Travis Kelsey and Markers. Just hoard them.

I feel like to solves more problems than it creates. You make an extra person in the league have to deal with streaming a tight end. You have one less decision to make each week because one of them has to play in your flex. And then you've given yourself the only suitable handcuffed for either if one gets hurt. And then mine that I added is you can also just trade one of them. I kind of don't hate this. It's Joker move, but I kind of love it. Just drive Mark Andrews and

and Travis Kelsey If basically like if you start with like Travis Kelsey And then you just get let's just say you get like Kelsey And then you come back out let's say maybe you get like Devante Adams And then you come back around And you get like Mark Andrews and like maybe you can get like Jalen Hertz It's like all right now you got a tight end A receiver quarterback can you could trade Mark Andrews for probably

Like someone might have been waiting for Mark Andrews And it's like yeah I'll flip you know You can get something for him What do you think is the best part of this? the fact that another person has to stream one more tight end? Or is it the fact that you have the ultimate handcuff? Like, what part makes you feel the best? I think the part that everyone would think you're stupid,

but is secretly like, fuck, I should have done that. It's a great troll that's also really savvy. I mean, you're going to leave someone playing Cole Comet on week seven and just like hating their life. So, yeah. Because the thing is, you guys know in a league when people try to trade for the tight ends, but no, it never happens. I feel like the rarest thing in fantasy is a Travis Kelsey trade because it's like the idea of like someone giving up Travis Kelsey.

It's like the cost emotionally to give them up. But when you have Kelsey or Andrews, like people will give up so much to make that happen. I like this, Dylan. Do it. Okay. We got a lot of emails about the Cheetos. Yeah. Give some context.

Yeah. If you were not listening, we basically got an email from someone who said they eat Cheetos with chopsticks. to not get finger dust on their hand. And we were like, that's crazy. Well, apparently, we're really white. And I think we've united our entire Asian listenership against us to be like, this is very common in Asian culture, Hispanic culture. Also, I don't forget, so apparently it was a viral photo of Oscar Isaac

eating Cheetahs with chopsticks like a few years ago. No, I thought that was from the, it was from the show he was in. It is. Right? The she-hold. Or was he on the set of the show? I just saw the photo. I don't know.

Oscar, Isaac explains. He was eating flaming hot limon, crunchy Cheetos with chopsticks. Was it on the show or not? No, I don't think it was on the show. This email is from Tom, who says, Tom, aka Asian Cheetos and Joyer. And Tom says, just wanted to say eating cheetos to chopsticks is a tried and true method. Every Asian household has been doing since the dawn of time. Just ask any Asian friend or coworker.

Never heard of anyone getting made fun of for it. I've also never seen a non-Asian person do this. Since the dawn of time, Cheetos. This is like drafting Travis Kelsey and Mark Andrews. I don't really have a lot of notes here. Okay. Yes. I mean, this is, yeah, it's fair.

We fucked it up. And Daniel says chopsticks, by far the most efficient way to eat Cheetos without having to constantly lick your fingers and deal with orange stained fingertips. And no, Craig, using just two fingers never actually works. And Daniel goes on to say, only in America does it take Cheetos for someone to learn to use chopsticks. True. Do you guys use chopsticks ever in your daily life?

I use them out. Like other than eating sushi, do you use chopsticks? So this is, this actually leads me perfectly with the next email. We got an email from Sean that there are basically chopstick clips for eating like this situation on Amazon. We got a lot of people. Thank you to everyone email this to link.

I purchased them. I literally bought them. And they're going to be here, recording this Tuesday. They're going to be here like two days. Wait, I want to see this. Finger chopsticks. so you like attach them to your fingers?

I've seen this, yeah. And you just kind of squeeze and like you could just eat. Like it's kind of like you get Wolverine claws at a plastic and you can just, they're like the beginner chopsticks for white people when you go to a like a restaurant. Why don't just use chopsticks? Wait, I don't even, I don't even get how these work. They like almost sit on top of your knuckle. Yeah, they're a little, I don't totally get it.

But we have like four different people emails the specific link. And so I wanted to use them. Oh, you like squeeze your knuckles together and it closes the two kind of prongs. Yes. Yeah, you're literally. I'm going to try. I'm going to test these out. Did they ever do a, I haven't seen X-Men in a long time and I definitely haven't seen all of them. Do they ever do Wolverine using the, whatever his fucking things are called?

Claws. Claws. I don't actually know. Metal. Metal prongs. Yeah, Wolverine claws. Because hand blades, knuckle blades? Has he ever used those to eat in any of the movies?

Like a steak? Or television shows? Oh, my God. That'd be a funny point. I don't remember. I feel like he has. Did you see Logan? No, I didn't see Logan.

I heard it was really good, though. It's really good. All right. Hand, hand, claws. Hand, knuckle blades. What are they? Like, I feel like I'm 80 years old. What are those?

What are the kids doing these days? They got the knuckle blades. That's how they eat the Cheetos now. Oh, my God. My dad called him Jonathan Burrow the other day. I love that John Burrow. Craig says what happens. He hit 30.

My dad says Dax Prescott. Dude, my grandmother, you know, remember Brandon Jacobs, the Giants running back? Yeah, yeah. She called him Norman Jacobs. Like he's a 90-year-old Jewish man. Oh, gosh. All right. This is from emails at ringer fantasy football at gmail.com.

If your parents or any other older people you know have like a really specific name, they always call a player that's wrong, but they consistently. Ringer Fantasy football at gmail.com. I'm still laughing at Craig, try to figure out what they call the knuckles. We never can't be answered.

We don't know. They're claws. Craig, entering his mental pride with that. What they're officially called. They're made out of adamantium, aren't they? They're definitely claws. They're claws?

Well, yeah, that's what, yeah, their claws. All right. Maybe it's just that easy. Craig's like, I don't know. All right, that's our cue. Let's get out of here. Thank you, D.K., thank you, Craig. Thank you, Kai, for producing this episode.

Thank you, everyone. Email us at ringer fantasy football at gmail.com. Go to fantasyfurtle. Dot the ringer.com for our rankings. Thank you, Lord. Lord. Thank you, Halsey. Night.

You like Halsey? Yeah, sure. Ment to say, thank you to Kai for producing his episode. Kai, Lakers fan. Yeah, that's true. Lakers fan 8 on Instagram, actually. I don't use it, but snag the... Lakers fan 8.

What is this AOL? Lakers fan 24 was taken when I made the gram back in the day. So I had to go 8. But yeah, go Lakers. I just want to stop in, see how my friend Craig is feeling. The one down, I had my bachelor party this weekend, and it was honestly one of the best weekends of my life, to be honest. It was fantastic weekend, super fun.

The one downside is we did watch the Warriors lose with a couple of Lakers fans. So that did suck. Oh, yeah. So that did suck. So that we almost, like, it was a friend of mine. We weren't like with random people who liked the Lakers at the bar, but we did almost get like a drunken spat because we were kind of going after each other. How much did you drink during and after the Warriors lost?

Well, I mean, luckily it was a bachelor party, so it actually didn't really affect the amount I drank because the loss or the win, there would be reasons to drink for both of those, you know? Fair point. But yeah. Tough L. Real tough out for the squad. Kai talks a lot of shit, by the way.

Kyle does talk shit. Well, Kai wanted to talk shit before the show. Now we're doing it on the show and Kai's real quiet. I was just chirping. He was just chirping. I'm here to ask if we're still good for the bet because we're kind of like a soft bet. I don't know if I have ideas.

You know, I've been cooking. Well, I got to read something with the avatar. What did we want to do? So I was thinking I have a picture. I have the perfect picture for you for your for your Twitter profile, along with the perfect name. And I can set it in the GM. Don't want to spoil it.

I have to change my name? Hey, it's just a pitch. Because we didn't agree, you know, but only a couple of days. Send the picture, Kai. I think this would go well on Craigs. I don't get it. That's Austin Reeves. He plays for the Lakers.

And my title would be Hillbilly Kobe. It's Austin Reeves' nickname. But, yeah. Hey, listen, Lakers are Lakers in six against the Nuggets, started 2 and 10 on the season, play in terms. tournament. Like, it's kind of incredible where this team's gone this season. So, yeah, looking forward to the rest of the playoffs. Hey, listen, HGH is an incredible drug. Let's just, let's just say it. Wow. Love low. Can't wait to see the medical reports 20 years from now for Anthony Davis

and LeBron James. We'll see. It's kind of tough when Clay Thompson scores a less than 10 in three straight games, but I don't know. Hey, you're right about that. I said, I'll never, understand how Anthony Davis needed a wheelchair after a head injury to get to the locker room and then 40 hours later was playing in the game. But that's fine. Yeah, he's a, he's, he's tough. He's been in the lab. He's been working.

Yep. You got a lobotomy the day before the game. I suppose. Check out the trading places rewatchables that we just put up because Bill kind of sheds on me like six times throughout the pot about the warriors. So if you want to hear me get beaten down more.

I do, actually. Thank you. He shits on Chris Ryan too For the Sixers So is this the most Oh my God Wow wait He feels all powerful right now I just love you coming out of your bachelor party

Just the most hungover you've ever been And just Bill's just like You and Chris Ryan After like At least you have a title My God, poor Chris Yeah Four titles

But yeah Goodbye everyone