The Ringer NFL Show - Bears Hire Ben Johnson and DK’s Top Players of the 2025 Draft

Episode Date: January 22, 2025

Welcome back to ‘The Ringer NFL Draft Show’! Every week on this feed, Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck will break down everything you need to know for the 2025 NFL draft. Today, the guys react to the Chicago Bears winning the Ben Johnson sweepstakes, discuss how he fits as the team’s next head coach, and take a look at the rest of the league’s head coaching vacancies (2:55). Along the way, they recap Ohio State’s win over Notre Dame in the national championship (27:09). Next, they construct a positional syllabus for this year’s draft class to highlight the deepest positions, standout prospects, and under-the-radar guys (34:11). Later, emails (76:03)! Check out our 2024 Ringer Fantasy Football Rankings here! Email us! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Social: Kiera Givens Producers: Kai Grady and Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Bill Simmons. I am thrilled to announce our newest YouTube channel. It's called Ringer Movies. If you're a fan of our movie coverage here at The Ringer, then you're in luck because every episode of the rewatchables and the Big Picture, now on YouTube. Like Bill said, Ringer Movies will feature full episodes of my show, The Big Picture, the Rewatchables,

as well as special live episodes, deep dives into movie history, and a bunch of other fun stuff featuring other movie-loving Ringer personalities. Search Ringer movies on YouTube and experience the joy, Chris Ryan impersonating Wayne Jenkins on camera. Welcome to the Ringer NFL Draft Show. My name is Dan Hive. It's I'm joined by Danny Kelly and Craig Worldwick. And yes, draft show because fantasy football show, we become the draft show in the offseason.

We cover the whole off season. But Ringer NFL offseason show is not really a good name, but also no one's searching for fantasy football in the spring. So it's a whole thing. So we settled on the NFL draft show, baby. Only podcast in the world to change their name for a part of the year. We're not wrong. We're the only one. We're trailblazers.

Yeah. Let's do this. Somebody else give it a shot. It'll work. So if you're confused, please just hit the follow button because again, we're the only show on Earth that changes their name in the middle of the year, which maybe we should do it. I'm actually trying to think of any comparable example.

I don't know if there are. Literally, no one else does it. In any form of media. No, no one else does that. It's probably a dumb idea. It's kind of too late, though. So anyway, yeah, the ring NFL draft show, we're going to be once a week in the middle of the week.

We still have our Sunday reviews and recaps and our, you know, previews for later in the week for the playoffs. We're still going to go on a Super Bowl week. We're covering the season. We're also NFL. show. We're covering the offseason two, and we'll get to a bunch of coaching news here in a moment. Hiring and firings and trades and free agency. And obviously, the draft, hence the name, if that wasn't clear enough. So we're going to go through. And again, DK scouted too many people

for you guys to bail on us now. So if you've been listening all season, frankly, D. Can you do it all this work for nothing. No, it's like literally, I can't tell you how crushed we'll be if you guys don't stick with this for the off season, like genuinely heart, heartbroken. We're going to go through draft. The syllabus. DK. is going to introduce this to this year's draft for all the, you know, what, 28 teams at this point whose seasons have ended and you can start looking at the draft for Hope and DK's going to do a

dad-like syllabus for us to kind of explain really for you to explain to your father's what's going on with the draft. But first, and we'll also get to the national championship game last night, the blowout as well. But first, I want to hit all this coaching news. It was close, but it was a moment there. It ended up kind of close. It was like a

friend zone game. It was like they were there, but like you never had a shot. You know what I'm saying? Right. Sure. Anyway. You know what I'm saying. I want to start this coaching news. I can't tell if Craig liked that or thought it was terrible, Janet. I can't tell either. I'm still thinking about it.

Yeah. We'll see. It's provocative. Yeah. It was certainly thought provoking, yeah. Ben Johnson, the Lions' offensive coordinator has officially taken a job with the Chicago Bears as the head coach. So Ben Johnson turned down head coach interviews with the Panthers two years ago. Turned down interview with Washington last year, third time's the charm.

This time he takes the Bears job, staying in the NSC North. Now, as Bears, division rival will play the Lions twice a year, which is crazy. And obviously, you know, the main point is Ben Johnson's job is to make Caleb Williams look like he doesn't suck and, you know, basically to undo the century-long hurdle that, or I guess 20-year-long hurdle that the Bears have just looked like completely inept for. Obviously, there's all these questions about, like, you know, the head coach stuff and Ben Johnson was a coordinator. Can he do all that coach stuff? That applies to everybody. I think the real question is, can he bring out the best

in Caleb Williams? Can Caleb Williams maintain anything close to as good as Ben Johnson was successful within Detroit? But also, Ben Johnson succeeded with Jared Gough. And Jared Gough, is not Caleb Williams. They're very different players. So, D.K., right now, gut reaction, like, this doesn't have to be some opinion you stick to, but your gut reaction, do you think Ben Johnson will bring the best version out of Caleb Williams, the Caleb Williams we expected to see coming out of the draft? Do you think that that guy emerges with Ben Johnson? Yes, that's my gut reaction. My gut reaction was, this is a really good hiring. This is about as good of a hiring as you can make. And I think there's a lot of people that are worried about

sort of the scheme fit and style fit based on what Ben Johnson did with Goff in Detroit. The Goff offense in Detroit with Ben Johnson is not necessarily a good fit with Caleb Williams. The in-structure offense versus the out-of-structured Caleb Williams. Right.

However, my belief is Ben Johnson is a smart guy. And that's why he designed an offense that really fit Goff's style, his strengths, everything he likes to do well. And they designed that all around him and basically made this offense really specifically unique

to exactly what Goff is good at. And I believe that he can do that with Caleb Williams. I don't know if Caleb Williams will ever be what we thought he would be in the NFL. But I think this is the guy, Ben Johnson is the type of player, type of coach, smart guy coming up with all these different,

really interesting wrinkles in their offense. He's the best option that is out there right now to do this with Caleb Williams. So I'm pretty optimistic about it. I think it's going to look totally different than what it looked like in Detroit, in terms of his offense, the scheme and what they focus on. But that's fine.

I think the idea is here, again, he's very smart, and he's going to design an offense that works really well with what Caleb Williams is good at. I think a couple things. One, I think we're underestimating how bad Shane, are we live, Waldron was, and how good Ben, we're not live. Johnson is. I don't know what his, I don't know what the opposite that is.

Yeah. And also, yeah, it's just like the split of like losing Shane and then whatever the hell happened after Shane left in Chicago versus now getting Ben Johnson is obviously going to be a huge, a huge upgrade. I also think, like, I will feel dumber fading this than buying it a year from now. You know what I mean? Like, if I try to talk myself into, oh, Ben Johnson might not be a football guy. He might not be a motivator.

He can only kind of operate an offense with a Jared Goff, drop back, and hit your first read, and Caleb can't do that. I don't know. It's like, there's just, like, too much talent with Caleb. We can't give up after a year. First overall pick, best talent in a long time. Ben Johnson is like clearly the best play caller in the league. You can overthink this easily and kind of like get into the nitty gritty

and talk yourself in circles into not liking this. But that's like take artist shit. I mean, in reality, this is the best thing the Bears could have probably done. I don't know if it's the best thing Ben Johnson could have done, but clearly he thinks so. Right, right, right. So, yeah, I think you have to support this. I think it's also, I think what's evident here is he took this job because of Caleb Williams mainly. You know, I don't think obviously the Bears organization is a huge draw.

he's going to a team with a GM that's already in place. But he turned down ostensibly. He turned down the Raiders job. He turned down the Jaguar's job. They really wanted him in Jacksonville. The bulky thing, I think is obviously a huge impediment to... You mean, by the bulky thing, you mean the GM who's like infiltrated the organization and built the whole thing? The cockroach.

Correct. Correct. Yeah. The fact that Balke is going to get whoever comes next fired probably. I think it's very interesting. And this is exactly what we were saying before, like a couple weeks ago, is like the best situations, it comes down to the quarterback, man. So the fact that he's really confident in Caleb and what he can do with Caleb,

I think that's exciting. And I think also from the bear's point of view, this is the absolute perfect scenario in a world where this does work out. Then you have a head coach quarterback combination for the next 10 or 15 years, if it does work out. You know, we don't know right now if it will, but from a process point of view, this is absolutely perfect to me because you've got the hottest offensive mind in the NFL right now that's available.

And you paired him with your number one overall quarterback. just process-wise, it's perfect. Ben Johnson's so hot right now, Ben Johnson. But I don't want to just say, no passes. Don't let Roma Dunes Day pass the ball, just like Caleb. Yeah, I think that one's over. But I do want to just summarize because I feel like now we just keep repeating yourselves. He's good, he's good.

I do want to just actually, for a moment, take a second to say. So he was the offensive coordinator for the lions for three years. And over that time where he was the coordinator for the lions, the lines ranked first in points per game, first in yards per game, first in touchdowns per drive. So there were results. They were 3, 13, and 1 with Jared Gough before Ben Johnson was there, right?

Yeah. And then, you know, ended up number one seat at the NFC and they should have made the Super Bowl. So I also, this one I thought was very funny. I got this from USPN. The Lions average 26 points per game every year Ben Johnson ran the Lions often, so three years. That's good.

The Bears average 26 points per game in a season three times in the last 40 seasons. Yeah. So like literally the last 40 years. Low bar. Low bar. It's a low bar. Low bar.

So it's not just hype. There are results. And, yeah, the two big differences in Chicago, as you guys alluded to, like, there's style and there's talent. The talent is obvious. It's like, you know, he succeeded with Detroit. Worth pointing out the lines like seven first rounders on the offense. You know, Jameson Williams, Jemir Gibbs, Sam La Porter was basically a first rounder, four of the five offensive linemen for the lines that are starting our first rounders.

Like, a lot of talent there. But I think, frankly, that stuff, like it gets overblown. Like, you're just going to be able to backfill talent. I think the question we were talking about is style. And again, Caleb Williams, not Jared Gough, as you guys are. are saying, and I think that's really the question is going to be, one of them's going to have to bend. Like you're talking about the lines running the most play action in the NFL, Bears like barely ran any play action at all. And I think that's the

question of me is like both Ben Johnson and Caleb, Caleb will have to bend a little bit. And I'm just really curious what the Bears' offense looks like. Caleb seemed really intent on proving he's a pocket passer, wanted to play from the pocket. I actually was curious what you thought, Craig, because I look at this as Aaron Sorkin, Ben Johnson's like the best scriptwriter in the NFL, right? He's the best play caller. And then you have Caleb Williams is like Will Ferrell. Like this is like a guy that was supposed to be prodigy at improvising. And I'm really curious to see what it looks like when is it going to look like 80, 20.

Is it going to look like the way they made the league or curb your enthusiasm where they just have like stuff written out, you know, Cliff Kingsbury style where it's like do this, that and option C is just do whatever the fuck you can do. Or is it going to be like Caleb adapting more. And I'm just curious what it's going to look like, honestly. Yeah, I feel like a good coach, tailors his offense to his players still set, right? I would imagine that this is not going to look like the lion's offense where it's just like. like Caleb dropping back, staying in structure. I think you got to use him for what he can do, right? Like, use his creativity, use his legs.

I think it would be weird if they were trying to force Caleb into doing something that is not the most advantageous to his skill set. So, and then also what we're here. So the Lions, so it seems like Ben Johnson is also going to hire Dennis Allen as the defensive coordinator for Chicago. Yeah. Our beloved Dennis Allen. So ran out of town by the Saints who basically all the players seemed like, well,

I don't know say all the players, but a lot of the Saints seem like, well, I don't I don't say all the players, but a lot of the saints seem to, what's the word? Hate him. Hate Dennis Allen. I mean, he had been there for fucking 10 years. For a long time. So basically, I'm torn about this. My first reaction when I saw he was hiring Ben & Johnson was going to hire Dennis Allen to be

the defensive coordinator in Chicago was like major red flag. Why are you bringing in a coordinator that's like players have hated? Then I'm kind of like, yeah, maybe that's kind of exactly what you want as a coordinator who's like clearly not head coach material, but like clearly he's a sergeant. It's also nice that maybe Ben Johnson's like, maybe there's a little bit of him is that like, I can continue to just focus on the offense and I have a former head coach you can come in and like take over the defense

and I don't really have to worry about it. Right. I think that's absolutely the appeal and there's an exes and O's appeal. Frankly, the Bears' defensive personnel. Like the secondor is really good. I think it works really well

with what Dennis Allen wants to do. I think that like on paper, it makes a ton of sense and it makes sense as a delegation of labor exactly what you just said where like, I don't exactly think this is like Sean McVeigh bringing Wade Phillips

with Sean McVease like in preschool. Wade Phillips is like literally was coaching before Sean McHillan was born. It's not quite that. I just frankly will be curious to see I think that the version of this that's terrible is there's just rancor and like is that how you say that word ranker?

Yeah, rancor. Ranker. I think just basically I'm curious to see if the players hate Dennis Allen or honestly might be a good cop bad cop situation where you know what I don't know. So I'll be curious.

The chemistry will be interesting to see there. Yes. I hope Ben Johnson gets ripped like Dan Campbell starts drinking like eight espressoes a day and just kind of fully tries to recreate the Dan Campbell experience in Chicago. Like how all the Belichick people just try to be Belichick where they left.

And, yeah, Ben Johnson just shows up. He's like, we're going to be biting elbows. Have you heard any other of the coaching hires that they're thinking about making in terms of like, it would not surprise me at all if Ben Johnson got some charismatic offensive coach guy that will be sort of play the Dan Campbell role. I don't think, I don't get the impression he's super animated type of guy, Ben Johnson. He's like very, I mean, if you ever see him on the sideline, he just stands there. He doesn't smile, doesn't do anything. Do you think that's actually what Dennis Allen's about?

Because Ben Johnson's like, I got to be my own person. and Dan Campbell was so positive. He's like, I want Dennis Allen because I want my players to fucking hate us. Like, do you think that's what it's, you know, you just got to zag whatever one wants you to Zig? Yeah, tough love.

Yeah. All the scheme people that I've talked to love Dennis Allen. Yeah, no, he's super excited. He just seems like an asshole. But like, you know, you got to deal with the guys to the running backs on the team.

Maybe the other players like him. I do feel like the bad taste in everyone's mouth that the lines delivered to all of us this playoffs is like the, the like the trendy hipster take is to be like, Ben Johnson is Josh McDaniels and this isn't going to work and that he relied on the ecosystem

and having the Bella check and the Dan Campbell. I feel like that is kind of the take de Jure is like Ben Johnson's actually overrated and this is not going to work and he can't motivate a team to be a head coach. And to be clear, it's all related because the offense could be great and you can be a bad head coach.

Like that's the thing. It's an art where it's like you're a CEO of an organization with hundreds of employees and you have to do all this stuff that was out of your purview. And like there's, you have to be, be able to have an offense that's just as good as

the old, well, not just as good, but you have to improve the offense and develop Caleb while having way more responsible you've ever had in your whole life. So it's like you never know if people are going to be able to adapt to that. The flip side of the coin is, I'm curious the Lions, let's just say for a moment. So the Lions, Ben Johnson going to Chicago, we'll see what happens. It sounds like Aaron Glenn is going to be on the New York Jets as a coach.

We'll see what happens. It hasn't been confirmed yet. But it sounds like Aaron Glenn, the defensive coordinator for Detroit will be the Jets head coach. Let's just say for a moment, the Lions retain all their players. lose both these coordinators. Let's just say if they had kept everyone, maybe including the coordinators, maybe they'd have like a win total

over under of like 12 and a half. Right? Maybe 13, like probably 12 and a half would be the lines win total. If they kept all their players and lost the coordinators, how much they're the win total drop?

10 and a half. 10 and a half? I think Ben Johnson's worth two wins. Yeah. Just a win on each side of the ball? I think that's because I think that's the question. It's like what happens to Detroit now that you lose both coordinators.

Yeah. They still have a ton of talent. They still have great players. I just think it's all about the chemistry of how that all work together. You know what I mean? The alchemy. It's probably not going to be 10 and a half worked out. I'm already thinking about it.

Like nine? No, it's probably going to be 11 and a half. I think 11, too, because no one's going to bet no one's taking under 10 and a half. No one's taking the under on 10 and a half. But nobody would bet the under on 10 and a half. Maybe somebody would take the under on 11 and a half. And I think that's the question is like, is that the right angle, though? Like, we'll have a law season to talk about it.

But I think it's going to be interesting. Have you guys heard anything about who's going to replace Ben Johnson and Detroit? I don't know what they're going to do about that now. I'm not sure. And that's the other thing is Ben Johnson's going to take guys with him from Detroit or those guys are going to stay with the Lions and they're going to go to Chicago. I think that's an interesting thing.

Because Ben Johnson's going to have to hire an OC. The whole thing is so weird. The whole like some teams are still in the playoffs so those coaches can't, they can virtually interview and they can't get hired until right after they lose. It's just so awkward. It's like getting divorced and then announcing that you have a new girlfriend the day after the divorce. It's so weird.

It's weird. The second the Lions lose is like Ben Johnson's the head. coach with Chicago Bears. It's like, Jesus. It's weird. And it's in the division, so it's like they're going to play twice a year. And so, I mean, that's weird. But yeah, well, we just go. It's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, Arnett-Affleck caught at dinner with Anna to Armes as divorce finalizes with Jennifer Gardner. You're like, geez, okay. It's, it's really weird. And just going through the rest of the opening. So the Bears hired Ben Johnson, Patriots hired

Mike Vrabel. I think the Jets are going to hire Aaron Glenn. I will say, this, I mean, we could talk about this more if we can finalize this. I will just say, the jet search has been really weird. They interviewed 17. They're They're interviewing everyone. So just to go through, Aaron Glenn, Matt Nagy, Brian Flores, Josh McCown, Arthur Smith,

this is for the head coach job, Mike Rable, Ron Rivera, Rex Ryan, Rex Ryan and Ron Rivera. Dude, Vance Joseph, Bobby Sloick for the Texans. Joe Brady, Jeff Lerbitch, who was the interim head coach, Darren Rizzie, getting an interview

with the Jets for the head coach job. Steve Spagnollo, Mike Loxley is the head coach at the University of Maryland. Ireland. Joe Whit Jr. Defensive coordinator at Washington. I know. Jeff Halfley for the Packers. This coaching search firm is earning their money on this.

So I was going to, my first read when I saw this. Picking names out of a hat here. Dude. The first time I saw how many people they're interviewing. I was like, the Jets are like literally Mike Tannenbaum and the 13th team are just racking up the billable hours. Like they're literally just trying to get milk as much money as they can. I actually think it's worse than that.

I think that they're actually building the core of the business because there's like a couple consulting firms of like former GMs that like basically it's like when a coach fire, when an owner fires a coach, the GM, the GM runs the search. When the owner fires the GM, the owner has to run the search. And they're like,

I don't want to do that shit. So you just hire someone to do it for you. I think the 33rd team is using the Jets to build the foundation for their consulting business. And they're basically using these interviews, not for the Jets and just racking at money. It's like a, It's like a book that you'll be able to flip to.

Like, I don't know, like a wedding vendors. Building up their Rolodex. Yeah, building a Rolodex. So I'm curious if the Jets are letting the 33rd team do this and like don't even realize that they're basically investing in this company without getting any equity, like basically that they're like basically seed funding this team. Do they get paid per interview though? They're just like going door to door and getting signatures.

Yes. It's crazy. They're literally just like, yeah, we talk. Like now in the future teams that the 33rd team wants to consult for. Like, yeah, we've talked to Robert Sahl. we've talked to all these guys, or the Jets do know they're doing it and are literally letting 3013 waste their time in exchange for saving money on the consultancy. Maybe this is a hot take.

This is probably how you should do it, right? Like, you should interview a lot of people, shouldn't you? I don't know if you should be interviewing Rex Ryan and Ron Robbins. Well, maybe not Rick Ryan. I don't think you're wasting time because you're getting a broader lay of the land in terms of what you want. And sometimes I know this happens. Sometimes in these interviews, guys are much more impressive or much less impressive.

than you'd think they would be. So expanding, like, widening the search, broadening the, like the pool of people is, can you make the argument? That's actually a good thing. You could? Can I push back on that? I mean, sure. Everybody else has.

In theory, the idea that, oh, well, we want to talk to people to learn from them would hold more weight with me. If literally last year, eight teams needed coaches and one fucking team interviewed Bill Belichick, literally one team was like, I'll take seven hours out of my day to talk. to this guy who ate Super Bowl rings. Like the Washington didn't even ask. They're like, because they're like, well, you know, to think about it and they still didn't do it. Yeah, they're like, we only want to have a serious conversation with people we'd actually

hire it. It's like, they don't want to talk to him. They wouldn't even talk to him. And it's like, I don't know. So I kind of agree with this in theory. Maybe me just pushing back on that whole narrative and being contrarian, but I kind of am starting to understand the Bill Belichick thing a little bit more. Because you're not hiring Bill Belichick, the guy who won eight Super Bowls or whatever.

You're hiring him and his whole weird. posse of people and, you know, all the, all the weird stuff that goes along with his personality and how he wants to have total control over everything and how you're basically handing over the keys of your organization to this old surly guy that hasn't won in it in a few years. You're right. Instead of giving Bill Belichick time, you should talk to Mike Loxley at the University of Maryland and Rex Ryan. Bobby Sloick. Bobby.

So anyway, so the Jets, we'll see what the hell they do. Aaron, glad I mean, good luck. I'm really curious if they keep, I swear to God, if they keep Rogers, which I don't think they will do. But if they kept Rogers, I actually kind of think that there's a world where that could It's going to be a fun offseason. Hell yeah. It wouldn't be boring. You're going to talk yourself into 2025 Jets?

That would be the funniest thing ever. But so the Jaguars, again, Trent Balke, scared him off Ben Johnson. I think I really think Trumpalky has set up the whole organization for him to stay there forever. I think they might end up with Liam Cohen, the offensive coordinator for the Bucks. He's also kind of a Ben Johnson guy where he's really smart. Everyone respects him. And he's kind of like, I actually want to stay in this job and don't want to, you know, you don't know if he'll ever get a second chance.

So I think he seems to basically be saving himself for marriage, so to speak. And it doesn't really want to jump in anything. But I don't know if he would take that job. And then there's the Saints who I kind of think they're just going to hire Mike McCarthy for the Saints. God. I mean, I just think Mike McCarthy is going to go there. So because if you look at their interviews, take out the people who are not going to get the job. It's kind of like Mike McCarthy, Joe Brady for the bills, but now he's in the NFC championship game.

Mike Kafka, who's the Giants office coordinator, Anthony Weaver for the Dolphins. He's the defensive coordinator. I kind of David Shaw, the Stanford head coach. I think it's just Mike McCarthy to the Saints, which kind of probably makes sense for everyone. Yeah, it kind of does make sense, actually. Did you guys see that Alvin Kamara tweeted, my vote for head coach rhymes with Fizzy? Who could that be? The Rizzler.

The Rizzler, the Rizzler impressed people. Maybe the team really loves this Rizler guy. People like that. It's all especially relative to the Dennis. It's a classic Antonio Pierce scenario where all the players are like, this guy's awesome. Every team's just going to suck. Every player in the history of playing has always been like hire the interim head coach.

And I don't know if there's been two interim head coaches that have worked out once they ever got the job. I don't know if it's ever worked. Speaking of McCarthy, though, I have to just shout at this cowboy situation. This is a cluster fuck. Like, this is an absolute insane. Like Dallas literally fired Mike McCarthy a week after the season ended. And just to tell you where they're at. You fire a guy whose contract is going to be up in a couple weeks.

That's the thing. They said it. And we still don't really know what happened. Where it's like they wanted him to go or McCarthy wanted to go. Do you know where I'm really at? I kind of think either McCarthy wanted out or honestly, I think they waited a week. And then Washington and Philadelphia won their playoff games and Jerry Jones couldn't stand being irrelevant while the two other teams of the division were actually winning playoff games. And he just was like, fuck it.

Like the guy in your dynasty league who just needs to make a trade. Yeah. Like you need to get six. No one's talking about them. Like, but if you look at, I mean, imagine being, no offense to the Cowboys fans, but can you imagine being a Cowboys fan right now because the Cowboys, I mean, you lose Mike McCarthy, fire him or he quits you. I don't know what's more embarrassing eight days after the season ends.

They're interviewing Kellan Moore for their head coaching job. Their former offensive coordinator. They fired Kellynne Moore two years ago as the offensive coordinator. They fired Kellynne Moore two years ago. He's now the offensive quarter of the Eagles who were in the NFC championship game. You know who else in the NFC championship game? Dan Quinn, it was your defensive coordinator last year. Like, I, I, honestly, it's like really embarrassing.

It's, it's very, it's somewhat similar to like, you know, the picture that always gets shared where like Shanahan, McVeigh, LaFleur, and maybe there was some other guys on there, but it was on the Washington coaching staff at one point. Yeah, yeah. And then Washington was just one of the worst teams in the NFL for ages, but they had all the best coaches in the NFL on their staff at one point. Yeah, they don't want to turn into that, I guess, maybe, or something like that. So they're bringing these guys back into the fold. I don't know. But it's funny. The only thing I want to mention about this is because I can't get over Kellen Moore

having a coordinator, like being fired as an offensive coordinator, two years later, being interviewed for head coach, is Jerry Jones calls him Keelan. Good God. Jerry Jones doesn't know his name. So, I mean, that. So it's kind of, it's like, remember when Bruce Allen, who's the president of Washington, used to call Kirk Cousins. Kurt. Yeah. It's like that.

Except. I'm pretty sure Kellynne Moore probably talked to Jerry Jones a lot more than Kirk Cousins talked to Bruce Allen. Dude, if I'm 82 and I can remember anyone's name, it'll be a success. It's hard. It's hard out there. I know. I kind of actually have a little bit of empathy for both of these guys because it's like my worst nightmare to mess up someone's name. And I'm bad at names.

I still don't know if it's Zendaya or Zendaya. I'm 30. It's Michi. Yeah, she's Michi. I know that. I know LeBron James is Guangie, but. LeBron James is Guangy. Zendaya's Mishi.

Yeah. I don't remember the other ones. I don't remember the other ones. I don't understand this Gen Z. The movie Smallfoot, D.K., check it out. Mishi and Guanyi flip the grunt. I know that I'm supposed to remember what this means, but I have no fucking idea. Did I watch Dorgo.

D.K., if you lose the middle seed bet, you can watch Smallfoot. You can only watch Smallfoot. What is Smallfoot? You'll see. You'll see. You'll see. Zendaya is Michi in Smallfoot. What are you talking about?

I don't. Zendaya is Michi. I don't understand what you're missing here. Yeah, what's not to get? I just literally have never heard of this movie. Well, buckle up. Get ready to learn small foot, buddy. 72% on raw tomatoes.

All right. That's actually too high for you. You don't get that anymore on the play. 66. 662 popcorn meter. Popcornamander. Maybe we should have a poll where instead of rod dogging, DK has to watch a movie of our choosing or the audience is choosing.

It would be nice if I could write a review know your generation a little bit more. Like what's the one, the holes or whatever that you guys always? That's too damn bad. Well, you could just watch that on your own time. That's a good movie. I would never have you.

Yeah, that's not a punishment. That's a luxury. I might watch holes. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I should watch holes on the play.

You guys fucking quote that all the time. Stanley Yelnats. Oh, that's too damn bad. Beaches and onions. Don't want to do this, grandpa. I can fix that. incredible kissing Kate Barlow

oh dude god I don't know what the fuck you're talking about it's so good legendary movie top five movie all time shout out holes oh my god I have no idea no you're gonna rod dog that flight no yeah yeah

you'll never know I think I'd actually rather a raw dog it phrasing you want to just keep our bit going where we don't talk about the Raiders yeah I kind of love it Austin.

Austin was so excited. It was ridiculous to think that Ben Johnson would ever go there. Let's be real. I chose Chicago. I'm like, yeah. It's just Brady's like, can we talk? And you're like, what are you going to say? No, I won't take a call with Tom Brady.

And then he's like, yeah, it kind of sucks, though. Honestly, they should hire Pete Carroll. There's a good leverage. Yeah. He did a good job of leveraging everything. I'm actually kind of excited. I kind of want Tom Brady to get to see how hard this is. Like, I actually am kind of excited for Tom Brady to be bad at something.

Like the announcing being bad and running the Raiders and being It's like Michael Jordan and Charlotte. It's like, man. Yes, I'm very excited. They say, this is not that easy. No. So you're a chef. Can you farm?

So that's the coaching carousel. We'll update it as more news comes out. More coaches are hired. How much time do we want to spend on the national championship? Very little. I mean, Ohio State clobbered Notre Dame. It was a close game. It was like the Bill's Broncos game where they came out.

Notre Dame scored and you're like, whoa. And then it was 31.7, like an hour later. And then they got the eight points and then they got it again and it was really weird because I'm not gonna lie if Notre Dame won that game I was gonna give Catholicism a real shot

like clearly like that was crazy but yeah it kind of went exactly as everyone thought I don't know it's pretty I mean the Ohio State really dominated them it was funny because it was like after the game all the Ohio State players and coaches are like you know I couldn't get it Ryan Day

being like we have this remarkable story to tell and now we can tell it and I'm like no one believed in us yeah no one believed this I'm like okay you're the fucking Dodgers you're the Yankees you spent the most money and got all the good players and you won. I don't know. I was like texting or tweeting during the game that he thinks Ohio State might have the

most players drafted ever. Yeah. And the crazy, maybe the two best players on their team, Jeremiah Smith and Caleb Downs are coming back next year. Oh, yeah. They also had a guy who's a first rounder who's probably, he didn't even play in Josh Simmons. Yeah.

It's crazy. There were loaded. So Jim Nagy actually runs the senior bill noted this, including Ohio State this year. Six straight years, the team who won the college football playoff will have the most players drafted in the draft, which, I mean, no brainer, but like, yeah, it's really literally like one to one in the last six years of like, if you have the most powerful players, you won the title. Like, it's just literally just the talent trumps all, even if your coach is

Ryan Day. I will just say for Ohio State, I'm not saying this is the best player on how, well, obviously the best player in Ohio State's Jeremiah Smith because he's basically Julio Jones. Yeah. But again, that's 2027. But I love Trevionne Henderson, the running back from Ohio State. I know Judkins had the game and like, you know, Judge is good too. He was incredible as well. I agree with you completely. Every time I watch Henderson, I'm like, God, this guy has more juice than anybody I've ever seen my life.

He's so fast. Wow. Yeah. They're both really good. He's not really the fastest guy I've ever seen. But he's got a ton of juice. Yeah. Henderson is like a pro skill set where I feel like he could do everything.

I trust him in a two minute drill. I think he can like be a goal line back. I think he can catch. He can block like in a way that again, I will get in all this, my boring ass blocking takes of running backs. But I think I just think he's a full. I think that Judkins is going to like actually steal some shine from Henderson because Judkins is the one who had the three touchdowns and everything.

But I don't know, but there's a lot of very good, very boring, great players in the South State team. They're both. Judkins and Henderson probably both go on day two. And they just rotate these two guys. They're both very, very good. They've got a mecca, Emeka, a Gabuka, who is the all-time leading receiver for Ohio State career. And he's never been like the best receiver on his team. No.

It's incredible the talent that Ohio State brings in, this Jeremiah Smith. It looks like Julio Jones. You know, JISN, you got Garrett Wilson, all these guys, Oliva, all that have come through there. It's just amazing what they've done. LSU's better, but yeah, no, Jerry Biosmiths is the truth. So last thing before we get to the, Will Howard, quarterback for Howard, quarterback for Howest State, did, I'm intrigued.

I'm not saying you should be like the top five pick or anything, but like I kind of, I got to say, like, I am admittedly a very casual college football fan. I watch sparingly throughout the regular season, then I watched the playoff. So I really, my only inner experience with Will Howard is mainly in the college football playoff, save a few other games out there.

But I don't know, man. He's big, he's mobile. I thought he was throwing darts. He seemed very accurate. He stepped up in the moment. He basically just had four straight great games, like the four best games of the season were in the college football playoff.

That kind of means something to me. Like, if you wanted to tell me that the Steelers took a fourth round flyer on Will Howard, I think I'd be totally down for it. And I know people who have been watching college football for years say that he sucks. Like I was texting my brother and he was like, enjoy Will Howard. He was the worst part of their team and the only reason why they lost games.

But judging off the four games I watched in the playoff, I thought he looked good. He played a lot better against the good teams at the end of the season. And I totally agree. It's weird because on one hand, it's like maybe it's the, you know, maybe it's the 13 players in his team who will be NFL players within like three months. I get it. So. A flyer.

He hit that cover zero beater to like seal the game. Dude, it was a dime. All right. Well, he threw to Julio Jones. Congrats. I actually thought that was like a. Anybody could have caught that ball. We got to stop with this, like, not giving any,

giving the quarterback zero credit for, for winning a national title. Like, he did a good job. I'm the one who's saying it. I agree. I think that, like, again, people say. I'm saying, we got to stop that. He did, he should get some credit for what,

the throws he made. I agree. He was making, like, a lot of throws across the field to the outside of the field that were, like, pick six city. And he was throwing them hard enough and accurate enough to, like, actually get it to his receivers. Giving his receivers a chase. I'm not even saying, I believe in Will Howard.

I'm saying that. considering the Giants might make me watch an entire season of Drew Locke, like, fuck it, just take, yeah, I agree. Just take the hour in the third round. Like, let's just fucking see that happens, man. Watching it, Craig, I got visions of Matt Hasselbeck. Like, a guy who's like never,

he's never physically very exciting in any way, but just kind of a guy that runs the offense. So yeah, made it to the Super Bowl with him. He was like a sixth round pick, but he's exactly the same size, six four, two, 35. Not nearly as mobile as Will Howard, but yeah, right?

Yeah. I don't think Will Howard's all that mobile. I was getting so mad last night when they kept running the QB draws with him. I'm like, dude, give it to your fucking running back who runs a 4-3. What are you doing? Give it to the guy who scored three touchdowns and Judkins or Trayvon Henderson who's got more juice than anyone else on the field. Yeah, that was shit. And then you're running your slow, like, lumbering white quarterback.

Give me a break. Will Howard. That's the only problem. It was Will Howard and Riley Leonard. Riley Leonard puking after the first drive. Oh, my God. That was like some like rudy shit right there. You just, they ran him into the ground and then he puked on the sideline after scoring.

I just hammered the money line. He had nine QB carries on the first drive. Let's get to the draft syllabus week. I think that this is like our true introduction to this draft. Draft starts now, D.K. Titans are on the clock. Yeah. God, I love that noise.

It's really good. It really does take you somewhere. I think I've said this before. But if that little jingle sucks, the draft isn't popular. I swear. That took it up like 40% that jingle.

It's like the Netflix. It's the best fucking sound because then it's immediately followed by the pick is announced. It's so, it's so exciting. If it's on in the background

and like a friend of yours is your partner who doesn't like football or care at all, they're at least hearing that jingle and bobbing their head back and forth. It's like,

uh, Stanza, it sticks with you. It's Pavlovian too. Like there's no way you would have day three of the draft on his background TV if that draft,

you're so right. That is the, the secret engine. You've got to find who made that. I know. That guy deserves more money. Anyone knows who made that chime. Please email Serrina Fantasy Football and emails. Like the person who designed the swoosh or whatever, the Nike. Like the most iconic logo on earth.

Yeah, Portland State grad, like art grad who just got like 50 bucks for it or whatever. So let's get to syllabus week here for the draft where I really just want DK. Frankly, we're doing this episode in large part because every year for 10 years, my dad calls me whenever he decides he's into the draft and he's like Danny are there any good players in this year's draft and I'm like yes

there are good players he's like okay what about any good good quarterbacks yes they're good any good running backs and he goes to every single position and he just asked me if there's good players there and eventually I decided that actually is a pretty good way to look at it and two I kind of am in stick of taking the call so I'm kind of going to have DK answer the questions

for my dad this year yeah yeah I like but I want to say though, DK. Like, obviously there are, like, I don't want you to say, yes, there are good receivers. Yes, there are good running backs. Yes, there are good head-ins. Because that's somewhat obvious, right? I want to know if there are actually good running backs. If there are actually good

wide receivers. They're actually good quarterbacks. You know what I mean? Exactly. Don't just say yes to every position. But yeah, of course there's good players here. I want to know if there are actually good players here. All right. Good distinction. Thank you, Craig. I won't make it quite that simple, but I do want to go through every position and I just have a couple questions for you there.

But basically, I just want to know if it's deep. If anyone's actually like actually capital E elite and then if like who is catching your eye at each spot. But I do want to just go position by position. Are we getting any generational prospects here? No, that probably failed 50% of the time. A couple things that I want to ban I want to propose maybe we have a banned words list from this show this year like Brock Bowers comparisons and like generational and there's certain things we should ban. Tight ends being athletic. It's yeah. We should just stop saying generational. There should be like a douche jar for any time someone says generational on this podcast.

Duce jar? I like actually good. Yeah, we had jargon. Actually good. Deuce jar is from New Girl. So anytime Schmidt's something douchey that's put money in. It's like a swear jar, but doche jar. We should have that where it's like me every time I'm really wrong about something.

I was confident. And Craig, every time he mentions the Warriors. And I don't know. Which will probably not be a lot the rest of the season. That's true. We really wasted a huge opportunity there. Anytime we mentioned San Diego State.

How about that? Surfing. Not be a lot this year. tough loss to UNLV I want to start with quarterback though DK yes or no is this a deep year

for quarterback in the NFL draft no is anyone of the position actually elite I don't think so probably not I would say compared to relative compared relatively to other years

it's no it's a down year at quarterback so I know last year was the opposite the last year was a phenomenal year at the quarterback position potentially five six

maybe even seven of them might be good if you had to play Shador Sanders and Cam Ward who are the two projected top picks in this draft at the quarterback position. If you had to place them in the 2024 draft last year, I know you know, just try to imagine you don't know what you know now

about how these quarterback turned out. Try to think about when you were making your board last year. Where would you slot in Shador and camp? I mean, honestly, based on what I was thinking last year at this time, I think it would be Caleb, May, Daniels, as like the big three, McCarthy, Pennix. And then probably that's where you start talking about Shadur and Wendon. Ward. It's so crazy.

That's so crazy. Ward would have been the QB7 last year, I think. And Shudder might have gone. I don't know where Shudder would have gone, honestly. But obviously, I was too low on Bo Nix coming in. But that's fine. Nobody was high on him.

Yeah. But I think, yeah, that's, I think gives you an idea. But honestly, like, all these guys have turned out so good. It's hard to, like, remember exactly I was feeling at the time. But I do remember watching Ward last year before he came out. Because he, there was talk that he might come out. And then he ended. ended up entering the portal instead.

And he was going to be like a fun kind of sleeper, like a second round guy, something like that. And so I think, yeah, you know, hindsight's 2020, but I think that's where it ended up being like six or seven. It's just wild how much necessity drives interest, you know? Oh, 100%. This guy would have been seventh off the board last year and now. I mean, these guys are almost certainly going to go number one overall,

one of these two. Yeah. Yeah, it's wild. Every year we see it, though. I mean, we never use these words for the draft, but it's literally supply and demand. Like, yeah, like, literally, like, that's what it is. And it's so easy to talk yourself into guys,

um, being, developing and into like a really good start. I think especially after watching this last year where, you know, situation dictates a lot. And if you land, if these guys land in a pretty decent situation, you never know. But if there's any silver lining or solace for a fan of a team who didn't get a top two pick, you would say, hey, you should maybe bottom out again this year and look ahead to 2026 because this is not the year to, to get your guy. I mean, it's how I felt with Pittsburgh getting Kenny Pickett like, what is that, three years ago.

This is maybe better than that, obviously. These two guys would probably be ahead of Kenny Pickett, and I imagine in your eyes. Right. Yeah. But yeah, so maybe for you, Hyatt, a Giants fan, hunker down for 2026. Yeah, we'll say, I'm so torn on what the Giants should do at quarterback. I mean, I'm so torn. I'm curious what kind of environment you think these guys would succeed in TK.

Because Cam Ward, I look at Cam Ward, and I'm like, he just, I feel like the pros, are like, you know, he's so calm in the pocket and he's like, you know, he's just so confident in his arm, so confident he can, like, throw the ball in tight windows and so confident he can escape from pass rushers. And the cons are so calm in the pocket and so confident in his arm and so confident he can escape.

Like the stylistic, like his part, like his, I feel like I can see his personality through his style of play where he's so confident and I think that is his NFL upside. But I also feel like you see so many of the downside potential because of the style of play. And I don't know if that's like a fatal flaw or actually just like a sign

that with the right coaching, he actually could be incredible. I'm so torn on it. Yeah. He kind of reminds me, I'm workshopping this, and I haven't officially landed on this, but he kind of reminds me of Jordan Love

in a way where the tools, the big play potential, the elusiveness, just the sheer confidence in yourself. And honestly, it reminds me of Jordan Love coming out of college too. He was not as highly regarded as a prospect, I don't think,

final season in college. Whereas Cam Ward is literally the most touchdown passes. Right. Cam Ward kind of did the opposite. He got really hot in the last couple seasons. But stylistically, they kind of remind me of each other because like they're, like you said, they're not afraid to push the wall into traffic. Every once in a while he'll do this thing.

Cam Ward where he'll like run to the right and then throw across his body, really ill-advised throw. Why did you do that? You have so much experience yet you're still doing that. Same kind of deal I think you see with Jordan Love sometimes where half the time he looks like really composed, really disciplined, you know,

big arm. He has literally the most, I think he has the highest miles per hour throw on next gen stats record. He could throw the ball, hell out of the ball. That's a pretty sick thing

to have on the resume. I'm not going to lie. Whether or not it means anything. The reason I know that is because Jordan Love had, it was like a touchdown pass, I think to Tucker Kraft this last season. And then Joe Milton,

that touchdown pass they were talking about where he was drifting. to his left and he fired it in for a touchdown. That's number two on the list. So, but yeah, so I'm workshopping that like comp. I think it kind of makes sense in some ways, just like stylistically how they play. And so I don't know, it's like, what do you think of Jordan Love? That kind of might dictate what you think of Cam Ward. Like, do you want to take the good with the bat or would you rather have a different style of quarterback? Do you have three years for him to sit? Right. And that's the other thing. Well, we're also in this new world where

experience is now a pro and not a con. I mean, Cam Ward played five years in college. D.K., do you, are you factoring that in? Are you on board with the new, like, oh, Jane Daniels played five years in college? We actually want that. Bo Nix, there are more passes than anybody in college. That's actually a benefit now. I am. And I think, so the argument is, and it has, it's always been, I think, looked at as a positive

if you have a lot of passes and a lot of plays in college. But there's sort of a point where that becomes a negative because you're not good enough to go to the NFL. You know what I mean? Like you're playing for so long in college. you're starting to be four years older than some of the players you're playing against and there's this age difference. And it's, I think at some point it becomes a negative.

It's a really positive that you have a lot of experience. And then like too much experience, like the Bo Nix thing is like, okay. The super senior in college. Why is this guy not fucking graduating? Are you just here at a party? Is that what you're hanging around? Right. I think there's like a, it's like you reach a certain point in the bell curve.

But I think generally it's much more positive to me in my mind now than I think I used to think of it that way. And that's part of learning and that's part of like changing your process and recognizing it knowing that you don't have all the answers with these guys and they're in quarterbacks are the most impossible position to scout period. It's just so hard to know how guys are going to do in the NFL. But I think generally big picture, experience is a good thing, period. Experience is a really good thing. I wonder if the pendulum is swinging just because Anthony Richardson through like eight passes in college and then has not really worked out. Trey Lance too. Right. Tray Lance. It's like,

We had Tray Lance and Anthony Richardson right into Boe Nix and Jaden Daniels. And it's like the answer is probably somewhere right in the middle, but we're definitely on the experience side of- If it was just Anthony Richardson, I, I certainly, look, we're certainly at risk of over-correcting. There's always players that cause people to over-correct. We over-correct back and forth every year. Yeah, it's like, snip, snap. It's like one great comedians, one's 10,000 bad comedians, and it's like, there's always

players in the draft too. We're like, we need the next Debo Samuel. We need the next Christian McCaffrey. We need the next Tassim Hill. And it's like, don't look for that. Look for the next person you're not looking for. It's like Brock Bowers. People are like, oh, any of the brakes, Brock Bowers.

Like, no, you don't. That doesn't exist. I will say, I think that it's not just a Richardson thing, though, because it's about the idea of NIL changing where quarterbacks can go and get reps go to a better system. Like, it is a different. It's a different world. The environment is totally different now than it needs to be. So there's certainly still a risk of overcorrecting, but it's also a different landscape. I want to just say before we move on from quarterback Shudor Sanders, there's two things for him, just him as a prospect, which we can get into and just him entirely separately.

the, like him as a player where again, you're bringing in Dion Sanders, the Michael Jordan of LeVar Balls and like, frankly, a snowplow parent. And I think the thing with Shadur, where I'm actually-

A snowplow parent? What's that? So there's helicopter parents who hover. I think the new thing is snowplow parents, people who move all obstacles. You clear everything in the way for your child. They don't know how to, you know, shovel snow. And so Shadr, like,

Shadr-Sanders, functionally speaking, was homeschooled. Like, as a football player. Like, Dion Sanders, coached him three years. This is his offensive coordinator in high school. Then took the head coach job at Jackson State. So Shadir Sanders could be the head, the quarterback there.

That's actually very weird. Yeah, went to Colorado and like literally built, built up a D1 program for his son to then play quarterback to Colorado. So you're talking five years of football. Recrued the number one player in the country to try to play with his son. So you have five years of college, three years of high school. And I couldn't go further back then. I assumed Dion Sanders fucking coach his son in middle school. So he's at Dion Sanders and this quarterback coach, they work.

with for eight years. And so if you're telling me that he went through all that and they're just going to like let the fate decide where Shadur plays NFL football, when he's already said on record that he will not just let the fates decide. Like I think there's Shadur as an evaluation and then completely separately like what Dion wants is going to matter where Shadur plays. And so we'll see what happens. But Titans with the first pick, I do know.

I would be stunned if Deon Sanders let Shadr go to Cleveland. I'd be stunned. I don't think he'd be very impressed with the Giants or the Jets. And I kind of think it's either he likes the Titans. And if not, he goes to the Raiders, if you are, Dion, let me ask you a question. Who again, Dion, who is homeschooled his son for football, you have two options.

I can entrust my son's development as a professional to Brian Callahan, the head coach of the Titans, or Tom Brady. I kind of think that there is, I think, I kind of wonder if Deon's going to make some calls and either force the Raiders to trade up or like just make some calls, Like LeBron James did with Brony James Where Rich Paul just called up all these NBA teams

In the second round of the NBA draft And was like, hey, if you take Brony James, he's going to go to fucking Australia And you're going to waste your pick. Like I kind of wonder if Deon's going to call these teams And be like he's going to the Raiders And if you take him, we're not going to show up. Yeah, it's going to get weird.

I feel like it is going to get weird. Those two are the top guys. You want to go to running backs? Yeah, sure. So again, D.K., my father's style. Is this position deep at running back this year.

This is actually a really good class, I think. Is there anyone genuinely capital E elite at running back? Ashton Gentie is insanely exciting. Should be a top 10 pick. I mean, he has the talent to be a top 10 pick. When I make the mock drafts, I'm always a little bit, I don't know if this team would take a quarterback or running back in the top 10 this high.

I don't know if that will happen. It does happen sometimes in teams that don't, teams that do it kind of surprise you sometimes. Like, it surprised me when the Lions traded up to take. take, Jemir Gibbs, just because they, I don't know, they'd had, I think it was after they had signed Montgomery. I can't remember the exact time. But it was basically like, this feels a little redundant, you know, but.

I think for running back, you have to take where they go in the drafts. Like, we have to put that aside for a second. I want to just know how good he is, because if you just look at the best running back prospects in the last 20 years, give or take, in reverse order on that rank in him, Bejan Robinson out of Texas, you get Sequin Barclay at Penn State. Christian McCaffrey was unbelievable at Stanford. you had a Zeke Elliott at Ohio State, Adrian Peterson, who I think is the best running back prospect of my lifetime,

and then Reggie Bush. Where in that hierarchy is Genty? Like, he's not better than Adrian Peterson. No. Is he a better prospect than, like, Sequin? I don't think so. I think he's maybe like a, just a tier below that. He's very, very good, but I just, I don't know.

I feel like it's hard to compare. Like, I remember Barclay being an incredible, incredible prospect. remember Zeke being an incredible incredible prospect. And the hype around those guys, maybe it's just me misremembering because it was so long ago. It feels like we haven't had a guy at his caliber in a couple of years. But I just feel like he might be a touch below that.

Maybe that's just because he went to Boise State. I don't know. And the competition's a little bit different there. That was like one of the arguments against him winning the Heisman. I understand all that. But at the end of the day, extremely explosive, extremely elusive, like he bounces off guys, Guys just try to tackle him and he has this knack of slipping through tackles.

He's a very, very slippery runner. More of missed tackles force this year, according to PFF, than any other player in their database. So that tells you a lot about the type of player he is. Really quick feet. Good in the passing game. He's a complete, complete prospect. He's a complete player.

My comp right now for him is just thick Gibbs, thick Jimere Gibbs. He reminds me of Gibbs and how explosive he is and how fast he gets going. and just basically his elusiveness ability to break tackles and destroy pursuit angles. He's a really, really fun player to watch, but he's just a little bit bigger than Gibbs. He might not be quite as fast as Gibbs,

but he has incredible balance, short-air burst. He makes guys miss behind the line of scrimmage. A guy will be unblocked in the back field, and he'll just juke and make him miss. So he creates a ton. Really, really good player, obviously extremely exciting. I just always struggle with the comparing

across, especially guys for, it's been a while now since Sequin and Zee came out. So it's just hard to compare those. Gentie, I almost think that he might fall in the draft just because there's so many running backs that it's hard to almost, it might be hard to justify taking Gentie with like a top 12 picks. That's what I worry about. And I don't know how early he'll go. He deserves to go in the top five, probably.

Who are the other running backs? Who else has caught your eye? Obviously, the Ohio State guys are both incredible, like Judkins and Trayvon Henderson. And I think they'll both be in the draft. And I mean, Judkins, you know, he had three times. touchdowns. He was insane. Henderson, both Ohio State running backs are great. Has anyone else caught your eye

from this running back class so far? Caleb Johnson from Iowa, I really like. He's like a zone runner, big guy. Kind of reminds me of a Melvin Gordon type of player, big-bodied, elusive, can run away from a defense, big plays, tons and tons of big plays. He benefited from having a good offensive line in Iowa,

and he was like a focal point of their offense. Hampton from North Carolina, Umari and Hampton is really, explosive, tons of juice, downhill runner, incredible production. He's probably going to be a second rounder. He's really exciting. Are there any guys you think will be a first rounder along with Gentie? Caleb Johnson, possibly he could make it in there.

Travion Henderson, I don't know if he has the body of work to, like the production to do it, but I think his juice is pretty rare. And so teams could look at that and see a guy that could really make a difference on their offense. Cam Scadabo, top 10 picks, Cam Scaddle. Yeah, maybe, maybe, you know, you never know. the slowish white running back is probably not going to be a first rounder

but he'll probably be a good player in the NFL I kind of think so Scatabo is Arizona States running back and he's like my favorite he was my favorite player in college football this year and like Mike I'm what he did in the playoff is pretty unbelievable I actually think Cam Scadago

reminds me of Ligarriot Blunt like he's smaller than Ligarri Blunt and he's like slower but he's actually like a three down player I Scadabo is an example of someone who's going to not be like his measurables aren't going to be like NFL draft like huge but he actually is a three down player I think teams are going to be obsessed with his fucking grit

and like throwing up and between third and fourth quarter and then like going out and having a hundred more yards. Yeah, watch the chiefs will take him in the third round. It's going to be like fuck. He's going to be awesome. I don't care that he's going to run a four seven, 40 yard dash.

I literally want him on every fantasy football team I have next year. Like he's the epitome of like he sparks joy. Well, just just think about this. And they're not this, they're not similar type of players, but Bucky Irving. one of my biggest regrets from last year's draft. Again, I loved him on tape.

I thought he was super exciting, super elusive, really good in the passing game. And then he was slow and small. And I was like, that just doesn't usually work in the NFL when you're slow and small. And for whatever reason. And I talked myself out of him,

even though I really liked his tape. And then, you know, to my regret, he ended up being like the best rookie running back by far. And he was a fourth rounder, I believe, or fifth rounder, a fourth rounder. So, you know, I'm like not writing any of these guys off because they're slow.

In other words, like there's other skills. Running back is a position where having true skills as like a pass catcher, as a pass blocker, you know, vision.

Some of these other things besides just pure speed really do matter. Having that elite speed is obviously also very good, but it's not, it's not the end-all be off for the running back position

because there's guys that are quote-unquote slow who are really good in the NFL. Wide receiver. Is this position deep or not this year? No, I don't think so. I would say this is a down year for receiver.

Is anyone at receiver truly elite this year? I think Ted McMillan. Yeah. There's been varying opinions on him, but to me, he looks like a top ten player. He looks awesome. And I saw, I think Dane Bruegler threw this one out. T. Higgins is a comp for him. And I was like, oh, yes, I can 100% see that.

I think that makes a ton of sense. They're around the same size. They both move kind of fluidly for guys that tall. they can change direction, they can run after the catch. You're just always surprised how fast they look on the field. I think Ted McMillan is not going to test at elite numbers. He might not even test, honestly. In terms of, you know, his 40 and I was reading.

He's in 95 in the new college football video game. He's a 95 overall. So why does he need to test? Exactly. I mean, he probably won't test, which would probably be the right move. Our point, Johnson is your look up the 95, yeah. Brick Johnson has seen all he needs to see. God damn right.

But he's really good. he breaks a lot of tackles, runs after the catch, huge catch radius, really tough at the catch point, massively productive, a number one go-to guy. Yeah, T. Higgins,

he kind of reminded me of Puka a little bit, just tough, physical. Yeah. If people don't like him, if he does do anything and his measurables aren't great, people are just going to overthink it. Watch him play.

He looks like Mike Evans and T. Higgins combined. He has awesome hands. He's like way too mobile and fast for his size. he's like super tough he's thicker than T. Higgins he just looks awesome across the board

like he will be a productive player in the league don't overthink it. I feel the same way about a mecca egg Buka from Ohio State good build, run after catch, great hands, awesome blocker. He's just a ball player type of receiver.

You just know he's going to be good. He's one of those high floor guys. I don't feel everyone will have a really high ceiling but he's the type of player I want on my team you know what I mean? So I'm willing to take him in the first round too. You think any of these guys are going to go top 10 other than Travis Hunter who's a hybrid?

I think Ted McMillan has a good chance to go top 10. I don't think anyone else does. I think he might go top five. Right. And I think there's a lot of varying just views on what Luther Burden is from Missouri because he is a former five-star guy, super explosive, awesome athlete. But his stats dropped precipitously this last year. Missouri's offense was really bad.

They had issues at quarterback. But he went over. I think he had like 1,200 yards or something last year. and then this year his numbers fell off completely. There's a little bit of you're scheming him up a bit, but he kind of reminded me of a DJ Moore type of player, get him, get him the ball in space, let him break tackles. He's good running slot fades.

He can get over the top of a defense. Incredible juice as an athlete. So I like him, but I think he's not as well-rounded of a prospect to some of these other guys. Travis Hunter, receiver or quarterback? I think he's probably a corner.

based on everything we're seeing so far, you know, from the, I think the whispers are right now, teams view him more as a corner than a receiver. And we'll mix him in. Yeah. I think the idea is,

and again, this is a huge discussion. We don't have the answer to this. Can he play on both sides? I would say he probably can some, but playing a full season where you're playing almost every snap on both sides of the ball is not done for a reason.

It's very, very hard on your body. They play more games in the NFL. you know, it's bigger, faster, stronger guys in the NFL. It's just everything is harder. Maybe he'll do it. I don't know. But I think the idea is he's a full-time corner, which he's really good at corner.

Maybe he's really good at both positions, which is why he's probably going to be one of the top three picks. But playing at corner and then have him mix in as a receiver on, you know, 50% of snaps or something like that, 40% of snaps. And I think a lot of receivers have done in the NFL, you know, and that way you can utilize his skill set on both sides of the ball, but not totally, wear him out after like 12 games season or whatever. And so, yeah, he has a ton of value on both sides of the ball. Amazing ball skills. Attacks the football in the air. I hate when one of my biggest pet peeves is when receivers wait for the ball or corners

wait for the ball to get there and try and like scoop it. He attacks the football in the air. He's so good in those contested catch situations. Great instincts. Bates quarterbacks into thinking he's not in position before jumping under the route. You know, things like that. He's got, he's just a natural player. He's so good.

naturally. Just knowing where the ball is going to be, he, as a receiver, he knows the route combinations. He can anticipate where the ball is going to go, jump passes, things like that, really good balls, because, like I said, great athlete. He's just one of the most exciting players in this class.

So if the four receivers to know this year in the draft are Ted McMill and Travis Hunter, Luther Burden, and Emeka Egbuka, just judging these guys. Throw in Matthew Golden from Texas, I think. Probably he's getting some hype right now, too. Okay, if you toss him in there as well. where would you put Travis Hunter just as a receiver on this list?

Probably second. Okay. Still after Tet? Yeah, I think so. Okay. But it's hard to answer that question, though. It's like, it's the same thing we were talking about with Pennix last year. It was like, where would he be if he hadn't gotten hurt four times?

And I'm like, I don't know. Like, it's so hard to, it's an impossible question to answer because he has been hurt four times. If Hunter was only going to be a receiver, I think that's the question, you know, I don't think that's going to happen. So it's hard to answer that question. I'm more asking if like the whole commotion around him being this like both sides of the ball guy has inflated his skills on one side of the ball. I'm just asking if that's. No, I think he's legit.

I think he's legit receiver prospect. And he probably, some people might have him as the number one receiver. Him being 6'1 and watching him do the through the legs dunk was. He's an insane athlete, Craig. And I've said this a few times and I don't want to like overstate who he is. but the way he moves reminds me of Justin Jefferson. He's just Gumby. He's an insane athlete.

It's an exciting top five, I got to say. I feel like it's pretty cool. I mean, the two quarterbacks are kind of whatever, but like Ted McMillan and Travis Hunter is super exciting. Genty's super exciting. There's a lot of fun, there's good tight ends this year. There's a lot of fun skill position stuff on the offensive side of the ball.

I totally agree. I'm getting pretty excited about this class, honestly. I think people, the way that you would hear about it during the college season was this is a shitty class. and I think there's fewer pure blue chip prospects than we normally might see. But I really like a lot of these guys. And, you know, I'm kind of an optimist. I kind of look at the right.

I look at the positives more than than I guess with a lot of players. But I don't know. I think there's some really exciting, interesting guys in this class who could be year one producers for their teams. I don't think it's going to, it's going to be hard to compare it to last year because last year's class was sick. But there's definitely some very intriguing guys in this class. tight end deep year at tight end yes or no yes is anyone I like this tight end class a lot I don't know if there's I don't think there's a truly blue chip elite

tight end in this class you've got Tyler Warren from Penn State who is Dallas Goddard meets Taysam Hill he's tough and rugged good tight end runs crisp sprouts good hands insanely good at the catch point he's an absolute wagon absolute fucking wagon. The play where Goddard did the two stiff arms en route to a touchdown a couple of weeks ago, I was like, okay, now I feel good about my comp for Tyler Warren.

Because that's the kind of guy he's in the open field. And they also just used him at running back. They give him direct snaps in Wildcat stuff. He'd like over 100 yards rushing this year. I think he throws. He throws. 20-something carries

as a running back. There was one play where he snapped a football as like the quasi center. They had like a really weird formation and he was the guy that was on the far left of the formation. He snapped the ball, ran down the field. It was a double pass over to the sideline

and then they threw it up to him and he went over a guy and like mossed him in the end zone, scored a touchdown. I mean, this is the type of player he is. He's just like kind of kiddle-esque and he's wild man. Former high school quarterback, left-handed. He throws a ball like Khyvet says

every once in a while too. I think he threw a touchdown this year. He is the most corn-fed looking tight end that I've seen in a long time. This guy was truly built to do football and nothing else. Do you know where he was born? He was born in a city called Mechanicsville, Virginia. Yeah, baby. Outside Richmond.

Mechanicsville. Outside Richmond, baby. That's unbelievable. Goochville. That's awesome. Mechanicsville. Just the most blue collar. I've spent some time in Mechanicsville, boys.

Have you? Give me quick run. down on mechanicsville. A lot of good cars. Sure. The cars there run like amazingly smooth. Which ironic

probably means that the mechanics are not very busy because there's cars are out of work. It's a huge issue. Besides him though, there's a couple other guys that I think Colston,

Loveland from Michigan could be a first rounder. He's sort of in the Kincaid Evan Ingraham mold where you're more of a receiver than a tight end in terms of he's a little lighter

I think his frame is pretty thin. He's a good, very good receiver, good route runner, can run away from a defense, just good speed. So he's that type of tight end. And then in the second third round area, there's some good tight ends that I'm really interested in.

Gunner Helm from Texas, another good name. Gunner Helm. Oh, on the name of the names, there's Mason Taylor from LSU. I wanted to ask you guys. So Mason Taylor is the son of Jason Taylor. How do you guys feel about,

instead of Jason Taylor naming his son, Jason Taylor Jr., he just named him Mason Taylor. like he changed one. I like it. It's like Lord of the Rings style naming where all the kids are named some like Blazer.

Glazer. Laser. Yes. 100%. Like Faramere and Boramere and everything. Yeah, exactly. Tweaking letters. Yeah, exactly.

I'm into it. Craig, are you going to do that? Would you name your son, Greg? Craig. Greg, egg, leg, peg. That's going to be my people. My friends like jokingly call me egg, which I don't love, but it's,

it's been around. for so long that I'm okay with it now. Which I don't love. Probably shouldn't have mentioned that. But luckily, the listeners of the show cannot talk to me, so that's nice. Yeah, I know you should not have mentioned that. Some of us can. Egg whorlbock.

Mayo egg. Craig takes a sip of water now. He's like really fucked up. He's like, ah, fuck. I don't mind it. It's right. I'm sure we'll forget about it. It's like you don't tell people that you shit your pants.

Because then they just will never forget. So anyways, yeah, Mason Taylor, Gunner Helm from Texas. Mason Taylor's from LSU. Harold Fanon Jr. from Bowling Green. What is this guy's deal? Fanon. Number one graded tight end on pro football focus and he led to Lee, like, Yards and Yards the Red Run.

Yeah. He is, I guess, sort of Jono Smithy style of tight end. Definitely smaller or not as big as like a general Y tight end type of player. Run after the catch. Get him in space. Good hands. My God, he had 117 catches, 1,500 yards, and 10 touchdowns this year. Yeah.

Dude, Harold Fanon Jr. sounds sleepery, too. Like, he sounds sleep. He caught 117 passes and-500 yards, Craig. And 13 games, my goodness. Yeah. And it's funny because, like, I know we went to Bowling Green, but it's like, so the problem is what, he's 6 foot 3 and 2.30. So they're like, oh, he's small.

And I'm like, all right, he's 20 years old. Yeah. He was a linebacker in high school two years ago. He's going to be a super fun sleeper in this class. I don't think he'll be a first rounder. He might be a, he might be a, he. He might, but probably not. He's only 20.

And yeah, Craig, he led the FBS in yards, yards of the catch, mistackles forced, first downs, basically everything. He's just a out in space mismatch creator type of guy. I'm not going to compare him to Brock Bowers, but like in that mold of guys that you use more as a receiver than a blocker. Isaiah likely. Yeah, actually, that might be a good one. That might be a good comp for him.

Okay. Likely was another guy because he was coastal Carolina, right? He was a small school guy, insane production, and people were like, oh, he can't be that good. That's fake. That's fake. Yeah. Offensive line, is it a deep year at offensive line? I think it's a deep year with no blue chips.

Okay. So I'm, there's no Joe Alt. That's weird because it's kind of like quarterbacks where like the left tackles always get pushed up to like, like, you know, if you need an offensive tackle. But like, as a Giants fan, like, I'm a little. little scared that the Giants are picking third in a year where well you need a quarterback but like the quarterbacks are fine and the tackles are fine there's a lot of them and I'm like

so you tell them we should trade down 15 picks you should just take an edge rusher just take Travis Hunter I honestly so I've thought about this I I love Travis Hunter my thoughts in Travis Hunter are basically dude you have Malik neighbors and Travis Hunter no but I have two issues with it

one you're getting good players come on no I want the good players but I've thought about it a lot I love Travis Hunter so much. I actually believe that I think whoever takes him should have a plan to maybe have them by both sides of the ball. And that sounds cool. I think if you don't have a plan, it will cause issues because I think Dion will also be involved in Travis Hunter. And I think that it will be an issue if you only want to play on one side of the ball because here's the thing.

As much as people might say it's unrealistic from the play on the NFL on both sides, he was told that in college football. So it's like Travis Hunter, you know who believes he's going to play on both sides of the NFL? He's Travis Hunter. And I think that that could cause issues. But more importantly for the Giants, I just what's the last team who, built a great team around the edges. Like the truth of the matter is like you do have to build in the edges.

And sorry, the trenches. And I'm like, the Giants took a week Davis last year and he's the man. And I'm like, I love that. But I'm like, you're going to take a receiver and a cornerback

and like back to back drafts. And it's like I kind of just want to go get like Abdul Carter and just put Abdul Carter there with Brian Burns at defensive end and Dexter Lawrence in the middle. He's not a fucking identity. It's like the giant's like maybe the best defensive line. What's the deal? was okay, but like, I also, he's not,

he's, frankly, it's hard to have a better situation than playing with Dexter Lawrence and Brian Burns. And Timbado's like, okay, I'm fine to take. Like, he's been solid. I was looking him up the other day because I was like, what? I don't follow the defensive side of the ball as much as I used to in terms of because we're just talking about fantasy all year.

I'm like, man, he was such a huge polarizing prospect. I haven't heard his name of a ton. I mean, we could just merge the trenches here with offensive line, a defensive line to make this all about the Giants or whatever. Because I feel like the, the past, rushers in this class, I feel like people talk about it with like Riz and like enter, like people are excited. Riz is the wrong word. That was very boomery of me.

But like, Abdel Carter people like, I know. I did. But like, it was tough. But Abdul Carter people get like goosebumps talking about him. Like Abdul Carter is like, you watch, you know, Oregon, Penn State or Penn State Notre Dame. You're like, that's the best player. Like you can just see it. Like, Abdul Carter is clearly like an NFL player.

And then like, there's so many other pass rushers in this drafts like Jalen Walker and Michael Williams for Georgia. And then like, like, you keep talking to me together at Shamar Stewart at Texas A&M. And I'm like, I feel like, I feel like people. People get excited talking to these guys. The offensive linemen, people are like, yeah, there's a lot of them, right? And I'm like, do you like any of them individually? And those people are like, no.

I would say, yeah, the offensive lineman, the two top guys, I think most people think are the top guys, Will Campbell and Kelvin Banks Jr. from Texas. Will Campbell is from Texas. I like Will Campbell. I feel like I never. I feel like Kelvin Banks is like an NPC. I feel I like them both. Maybe that's good. The problem is, and this is what we're going to see a lot with most of these top tackles is,

oh, maybe he works better at guard in the NFL. You know what I mean? That's the type of thing we're dealing with where it's, there's always a caveat or an asterisk next to these names. I think the one guy that I really like, Josh Simmons from Ohio State, he tore his ACL or he had a knee injury and he missed the entire season.

So he's coming up an injury. So there's an asterisk or caveat with all these guys. And I think the problem is a lot of them are going to be viewed as, oh, they were good college tackle. maybe they are better at a guard in the NFL. And so they're not like top tier prospects, even though I think they will be good players. Then you get into the discussion of,

you know, are you going to take a guard in the top 10? Meanwhile, the chiefs are going to win the Super Bowl movie Joe Tuny from guard to tackle. Right. Ultimately, I think I'd land on the idea. There is a discussion to be made about like tackles make so much more money than guards that it's worth the value proposition of getting a good tackle in the draft

is better than getting a good guard. But ultimately, you just want a good offensive line. Like, just get good players. I have a conspiracy theory that ever, that like one third of the times they write could be a guard is because their arms are like 30 inches. They're like a half an inch too short. Yeah. And then two thirds of the time, it's in case this guy sucks.

I said he should be a guard. It's like you're covering your ass and it's freaking, I don't know. Yeah. I mean, but like Will Campbell, he kind of looks like a guard body type wise. I think the same could be said about Calvin Banks. Armand Membu from Missouri. I want to know what a tackle looks like. I feel like every year we've been doing this, everyone's like any tackle that's even a little flawed.

people are like, fuck and put him a guard. I personally think it's like you're a little taller and more athletic looking. Taller longer and more mobile. Is it just like a scarcity thing and the idea that there's only 64 tackles

starting in the NFL at any given time? And it's such a high bar to actually suggest that someone could like block Miles Garrett that people are like terrified to not put the guard caveat. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard.

It's hard. It's hard as definitely tackles. Because I feel like the people who are definitely tackles. I like call it like Kingsley's who on a tie a last year. Or like Raw's hell and might just be terrible. You know what I mean?

Yeah. It's a fine line between power and movement skills and grace kind of, you know what I mean? Like when you're on the edge, you have to be able to keep up with with speed to run the arc or whatever

and also be able to take on a bull rush. And it's hard to find guys that can do both of those things. And these defensive ends these days are so athletic, so insanely at like the best athletes on the field. And you have to, lock those guys.

And it's just a really hard job. So you can't be too big and thick and fat. You can't be too big and heavy, but you also have to have power. It's a really hard combination to find. So last year's tackle class, if offensive linemen are vegetables that you should probably take but don't want to,

last year's class was like some really sick, like awesome side dish vegetables. And then this year it's kind of like boiled vegetables where you should probably take them, but it's not going to be that exciting. And then anyone else other than Abdul Carter that's like really catching your eyes at pass rusher?

defensive lineman. I love Mason Graham from Michigan. Super fun. Just a ball of energy on the interior. Big physical, explosive, causing disruption constantly. He's really exciting. I like him a lot. Jalen Walker, you mentioned, he's like a

he's a combo linebacker edge rusher. I think some teams might view him as a tweener. There's going to be some weird discussions about him where someone's going to be like he's not good enough to be a linebacker only and he's not big enough to be an edge rusher only. So where's his true value? I personally would take him really high

because he's thick, explosive, great athlete, plays with a ton of intensity, really productive, can be an edge rusher or can play off the ball. His closing speed is insane. I'm going to clip a couple of plays for you guys with Jalen Walker where I was just, I sat up in my chair.

I was like, oh my God, this guy has incredible, just explosive acceleration and closing speed. He's a cool player. Would you say he has Riz? He has. He has so much aura that I just want him on my team. Speaking of Riz, Jack Sawyer.

Where are you at? I think he's good. He's the opposite of Jalen Walker in the sense where he's not a super exciting athlete, but he's just a ballplayer guy that game is done. Is he the Cam Schatterbo of defensive ends? Yes, but he's going to go much higher. He'll probably go late first, early second. Wait, do we have the clip?

Do we still have the clip? Warren, look. Gang. It's intercepted. That's the cold out. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Wow.

Jack's lawyer. Jack. Jack. The giant should just take him third. It's the inhale on the wow. It's him sucking air back in. Wow. Do you think we can get Gus Johnson on the show when we're in New Orleans for the Super Bowl?

I hope he knows we're not making fun of him. No. We love him more than anything. Gus, we love you. We love you, Gus. we should get Josh Sawyer we should

oh fuck we should get we were in New Orleans we should have Gus Johnson come on the show and give him bignets

and have him announce plays I think that's like a bridge too far but yeah what? I mean we're paying

for the how many bignets can Gus Johnson fit in his mouth and still say the hero I mean I like here

just eat a bignet and yell Jack Sawyer just say Strav. While you have six bignets in your mouth. Strave.

Look gang. Look gang! It's the best. You really do it well, Greg. Only he can make the word looking be incredibly compelling. All right, Dekin. Before we get out of here, yeah.

No, any other players you want to shout out? Great question. Hmm. I think there's a couple of big really, really heavy defensive tackles that are fun in this class. You got Deoni Walker from Kentucky who's like 350 pounds.

How many pounds? How many pounds? Like 350, 345. And then Kenneth Grant from Michigan who's 340-ish. And they can both move pretty well. You remember Tevondre sweat from last year? They're not as big as that guy. Big boy named Sweat was brew.

Yeah. But they're big and twitchy for their size and their fun to watch. So I throw them like that guy out, those guys out there. Malachi Stark's the safety from Georgia. Super fun. Will Johnson,

the corner from Michigan. Tons of ball production. Jumps passes. He's really good. Just looking down my list here. I mean, those are the guys that come to mind. I'm excited to see where Tyler Warren ends up.

He's just one of the more fun players. The tight end out of Penn State. Yeah. Lance Zirline compared Tyler Warren to Jeremy Shockey. And I've never been so jealous of the player. Oh, yeah. That makes a higher life. Half of it's because of the hair.

But still, I don't care. he's a left-handed he was a left-handed high school quarterback he's like I was watching some of his high school highlights he's so big compared to all the kids in his class Andy Reid yeah 100% Andrew Reid in the Andrew Reid competition or whatever yeah that was kind of what he looked like all right let's do some emails real quick before we get out of here so you know a lot of feedback DK had basically we all those dogs all those commercials are running this weekend about farmer's dog and like the organic dog food and DK's basically like I'm not giving the organic dog food to my dog who eats his own shit.

Did I get, did it, would I have a lot of haters? No, I think a lot of people were quite liberated by what you said actually. Oh, that's good. We got an email from, but I think a lot of people vibe, uh, vibe with you. I want to start with the email for you from Tom. Tommy. Thomas. Tom wrote, hearing about someone else's dog that loves to eat poop was very near and dear to

my heart. Because we, why do they like it? Why do they, why do they like? shit. There's multiple reasons. They've done research on this. Like some of it is diet related, which we've tried, and that's why we give him the anti-poop pills. They're supposed to,

they're essentially supposed to provide the vitamins that dogs are supposedly looking for when they eat their own shit. Is that not what farmer's dog is? Wait, so the pills are not like repellent against the poop. It's just like no, it's supposed to provide the nutrition, the nutritional stuff that dogs are apparently

looking for when they eat their shit. So, why don't you just, if you feed your dog, farmer's dog, would that be giving the animal all of the nutrients it needs to not eat the shit rather than give him shitty kibble and the non-poot pills? In theory, yes, but the pills are not working whatsoever. So I think

in practice, probably no. I think, D.K., what you need to do is buy the farmer's dog for a month and see how it goes. It'd be funny, actually, if it did work. It'd be ironic. He's like stronger and faster and smarter than ever. That's actually kind of good. Maybe I'll go to try. Fuck it.

So Tom writes in, we had a puggle named Surly Puggle who could not wait to eat his own shit and Surly would sprint across the surly would sprint

across the yard to get the shit as fresh as possible when our other dog would shit so gross so the other dog would shit and the other dog

would sprint across to eat the fresh shit and we tried stuff like changing his food anti-poop eating pills putting hot sauce on the poop no we did the same thing there's a there's a spray

that you can buy sprayed on their shit. And it's supposed to... And imagine this. There's a product that's supposed to make shit taste worse. Like, that to me is just hilarious. Anyways, it didn't work. None of the shit works.

Was it just shit spray? What's in the spray? All these people go on shark addict or something? I don't know. Like, imagine a group of people being like, all right, we got to make something to smell worse than shit. It's so true. Oh, my God.

So... Even worse. Shit. Hot sauce is crazy. Imagine like buying a bottle hot sauce. They can counterguise. Honestly, I feel like growing up my two dogs would, like every time I tried to give them like a vegetable, they were just so uninterested.

Just put a piece of broccoli on all the shit. Maybe that would change things. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, yes. Like a kid trick. Yeah. So Tom wrote none of the tricks work.

Surrey was hopelessly addicted to our other dog's shit. And we're in Minnesota. That also meant eating rock hard frozen pieces of shit later. Jesus. Literally he ate pieces of shit. Jesus. Is this worse than the bugger conversation?

Fucking poopsicle. I think it's worse than the... It's not as bad as the burger conversation. I think this is a real thing. Like, I don't... No, it's... It's not nearly as bad as the burger. It couldn't even...

It's not even in the same universe as the booger conversation. Now, if it is worse, I'll pause, you can pause if that one made you queasy. He says, one last note. My dog once threw up after eating the shit onto my wife. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Been there. Not onto my wife, but been there. Into my house. which is bad enough. Anyway, so this next one's a little more academic. So from Max.

Max E! Max, a million. Max writes, dog food used to contain ground-up eggshells for calcium, which is why dog shit used to turn white. Is that right? It thinks it wasn't good for dogs, though, so they stopped using an additive,

which is why you don't see it anymore, which explains the scene in stuff. with the white dog shit, which I never understood. I thought it was just like mold growing on the shit or something. I never understood the white dog shit thing. DK,

when you were a kid, did dog should turn white? Yes. And now as I think about it, I don't really know if I've seen white dog shit lately. I never, this, Craig, did you,

I had, I feel like I literally learned about this from step brothers. I've never seen this myself, white dog shit. I don't know if I have either. I agree with D.K. I kind of thought it was always like mold that had grown on the, on the shit.

No. I googled it. This guy's right. It's like a diet that is high in calcium, which changes the color of the poop. Dogs that can suit a lot of bones will often have white poop. And it's kind of like now when you see an orange dog shit, when someone didn't clean up,

it's like they had pumpkin to help, you know, help the dog digest. So it's like the orange. It's like the white dog. But anyway, I couldn't, I never understood the white dog shit thing. This is so funny. I actually thought it was mold.

I don't think it is. D.K., test it out. Feed him. I mean, hell, he eats his own shit. Give him egg shells. Ugh, God. That's hilarious. That's hilarious.

I actually, now that I Google it, you see questions. Why don't you see white dog shit anymore? Oh, you on Reddit? No stupid questions right now? If a dog eats its own white dog shit, does that baguette more white dog shit? Oh, is it just, is it a circle? Gray. Yeah, like you're putting like vodka through a Brita filter, but, you know, it's just pure and pure.

Wow, I'm really reading about this all now. Wow. People have the funniest things that they think about in Google. email is a great to know if you understand more about the science of the white dog shit

if you are experiencing any more white dog shit Oh Carl's like the six Indiana Jones movie Indiana Jones in the legend of the white dog shit Carlos says he is

white dog shit in his backyard right now Wow Pix or it's not real Yeah Pixar it's not real Carver

prove it just tweet it All right email us email us at RadioFat com if anyone can

find us who did the NFL draft chime where anyone knows about white dog shit. Do do do do do do do do. Thank you, Dukin. Thank you, Kren. Thank you to Carlos and Kai.

Thank you to Austin. Thank you to Carlos' dog for the white dog shit. Thank you every emailed in about the dog shit and the poop and the farmer's dog and everything. Thank you, Lauren. Thank you, Maroon 5. I have a question. Sorry, because we're going to move off Maroon 5 quickly here.

Oh, damn. Well, we can come back. Sorry, Adam. I have a question. And I think that this might be one of those we could use it as a poll question, and it's like something that in the results are kind of surprising. Remember how we had a,

we had a poll question about standing versus sitting for wiping? And I was like shocked as many people stand. The stand and wad people are, are out there right now. I have a question. This is, this goes out for everyone listening. I think that there's two types of couples.

The couple that will send each other pictures of their own shit and the couples that will not ever dream of doing something like that. Do you guys know what I'm talking about? I've talked to people and they will like, send their wife a picture of the shit they took. I've never heard of a couple doing that in my life. I think it's a thing that people do. I also, I mean, I don't know.

I also can't imagine that is something that a couple would advertise publicly. Perhaps it's happening under, under wraps. How many couples do you know that do this, D.K.? I don't, not a lot, but I've heard it multiple different times. And to the point where I've been like, what the fuck? Like, you do that? I would never dream of doing that. I thought you were going to say send photos of your dog's shit.

Well, that's what made me think of it. That's what made me think of it. Yeah. Maybe we should just have a poll of have you ever sent a picture of your shit to someone. Well, no, not somebody because like college guys Snapchat their shit to fret. Like that's actually, I've seen that probably more times than I want to. That to me is just wild too. Frankly, any picture of your shit is wild to me.

I think it's a bit, it's, you can make the case for it as an idiot 20 year old frat kid. I never ever want to see if someone else's shit. Like a 47 year old man. sending his wife a picture of a shit. No, it's more like people. I think it's not, it probably doesn't happen as much when you're out of your 20s. I think it's like a person in their 20s thing. But I have, I remember hearing it from multiple different people in my lifetime.

And I was just like, what the fuck? Like, I can't imagine doing that. And we should clarify. I think it matters a lot if it's a Snapchat or not. I think if it's a Snapchat. My generation didn't do Snapchat. So I don't know. They were texting each other pictures.

a wild thing to do. Some people have, we need to know less about each other. We should, yeah, yeah, we should throw it. You're the one talking about it on a podcast. Maybe it's, maybe it's very small about it people, I don't know. We can pull it if we want.

We're going to pull it. We can pull it. I'm just curious. This is like a social experiment. And for people listening, do not select, do not click yes if you sent a photo to your partner for like a medical question or medical reason.

This is only for like sheer like joy or, you know, randomness. Not because like, does this look weird to you? That doesn't qualify, right? Well, there's four options. Should medical related one time be an option? No, we just got to make sure the question. Joy.

Also, this reminds me in Europe, the toilets have the little shelf. So you can like, when you shit, it lands on the shelf and you can like inspect it and make sure everything's looking good. This is like, this is going one step beyond the California gut health thing. I did not notice that when I was in Europe. What are you talking about? I was in London. That's a continent.

What's that? I don't know what you're talking about. There are toilets in Europe. I'm going to Google this. We're back in our wheelhouse of toilet conversation. What is happening? Toilet shelf. Hold on.

Here's a culture lesson for you. The poop shelf. Is that what it's called? Apparently it doesn't happen as much as anymore. I went to Europe in 2001. I see it. I see it. It's a shell.

It's like a flat spot sort of like right where you poop and your poop lands on it. God, that sounds awful. Yeah, it's like shit. I've never seen this till I. It's quite literally shit, but. It's just serving it up on a silver platter for your dog. Yeah.

God. Anyways. And then that shelf, does that shelf kind of like open up or anything? I think then there's like. Like a James Bond thing, the floor around it. Is there like a trap door button you can hit so it falls into the. No, you actually have to take it. Spray and make the shit worse with the sprayers.

Okay. I think, hold on. Let me see why this happens. I feel like I could inspect my shit well enough in the normal. I was going to say. It's like an examination plate. Apparently, so you can look at your shit and make sure it looks normal. Are people turning around and examining what they've just done?

Well, in America, not a lot. We didn't grow up on this. Okay. The shit shelf. You know what? Maybe we should have. Craig, this is one step further than the California gut biome. the sits pinklers.

We should be sifting through our own shit after every bell movement. I don't remember having any corn. We need to get the hell out of it. Our apologies to Maroon 5. Goodbye, everyone. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino

or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Call 1-88-8-8. 789 7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamleyhelp.org in maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamleyhelpline, ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 18778-8 Hope NY or text Hope NY in New York.