The Ringer NFL Show - BONUS EP: Combine Deep Dive and Measuring Our Arms With Todd McShay and Steve Muench

Episode Date: February 28, 2026

The guys are joined by Todd McShay and Steve Muench to break down how teams really build their draft boards, what traits actually matter, and why arm measurements always take over combine week. They also dive into quarterback evaluations and the gap between mock drafts and what front offices are truly thinking.(00:00) Intro(01:57) Special segment with Todd McShay and Steve Muench(09:51) Arm measurements(30:19) Todd Todd Todd Discord link: https://discord.gg/Ge8bbYHrau Check out The Ringer’s 2026 NFL Draft Guide: https://theringer.com/nfl-draft/2026/big-board#content Email us! [e-mail] Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Producers: Austin Gayle, Abou Kamara, Carlos Chiriboga, and Cameron Dinwiddie Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. My name is Danny Hyfordson. I'm joined by Danny Kelly and Craig Rolbeck. And in a moment by Todd McShay and Steve Mench. We're here at the Combine in Indianapolis. And we had Todd and Steve from the McShay report, the McShay show. And Todd does the McShay report.

And they came on the show. It was awesome. We had a really fun conversation about the combine and in-depth analysis of players. And we also measured their arms. Many body parts were measured. Yeah. Several different body parts.

From several different people. I think it's a great job of going and finding a tape measure in the hotel. Yes. props to you for that. I got to tell you, props to me for that, but also props because we recorded this with Todd and Steve on Wednesday night. Wednesday night. And you will see in this episode, we literally had the conversation of, so where do the shoulders begin? And we argued about it. And guess what happened? Ruben Bain, we have conflicting reports of whether his arms are under 30, 31 or over 32. And it's the same freaking conversation we had in our dumb bit where we wanted to measure arms in this

episode. And you know what? We fucking nailed it. Also, the reports of Hyphitz's arm, length. We'll find out. You'll find out what they, uh, what do you say about my 34 inch arms. Let's just say your wedding measurements were a little hyped up. Right. What do you say? Well, people will see. Embellishment a little bit. Sure. Well, let's just say you went from a day one guy who day two. At least two teams measured my arms of 34 inches. I don't understand what the problem is. As you can see, we had some fun and Mench and Todd played ball with us, which is very nice of them. Absolutely. So yeah. We're going to go to that interview. And if you're watching on video, then we're going to just change out all these chairs for couches in our clothes really quickly.

So just boom. Tuck, roll that beat. A rug show. Special segment here from Indianapolis. We're here with Todd McShay and Steve Mention. It's the only time me to be called Steve the entire show. From the McShay report. Good.

How are you guys doing over there? Snug? I feel. Nice and warm over here. I'm comfortable. Yeah, I feel almost bad about it. But if one of them came over here, it would be worse. Yeah.

Some of us that would be worse than others if we switched. Yeah. We could play Tetris later. We wanted, this is fun. So it's fun to have you guys on. This is really cool. Nice dinner last night, by the way. Yeah,

absolutely. Yeah. You know, I just spend some time. I'll shut up. We're up at that. I'll shut up. Go ahead.

Shrimp counter. How high are we? We have 24 shrimp, I think, so far. We do have a conspiracy that the St. Elmo's shrimp is smaller than it used to be. It is. It is. It is, right? It absolutely is, right?

It absolutely is. I wasn't going to bring it up last night. Absolutely is. And they're hiding it under the horse riders, so you can't see it all the way in. Well, we're on the topic. I don't really care about it. I mean, it's paid off. It's not like we're getting like,

no, it used to be. I say it's big enough all the time, so I get it. But I will say this, D.K. adding, putting more cocktail sauce on the shrimp I thought was. I was fascinating. It was fascinating. I was fascinating. I mean, I was. I mean, I was.

Maniac behavior. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was for you guys at dinner. He was just, I'm going to help for you guys at dinner. He was just, I'm going to put so much more. He yelled with me. I was like, got it. Message, message received.

Anyway, yeah. But we thought Ruben Bain with the arms was going to be the big inches loser of the week, but it's really the shrimp in St. Elmo's. It's just getting hiding. It's conspiracy. I wanted to ask you guys, there's a bunch we have to hear.

We'll see how efficient we are with time. But I wanted to start with just at the beginning. The number one player in your big board, and DK very high on your big board as well. And you have the McShay report. DK. got NFLDraft.com. And the number one player, Jeremiah,

I love running back from Notre Dame, and you have this piece of paper in front of you that I've not seen. Is he still the number one player on your board? Yeah, he is. I'm fighting it. I think you can probably understand, yeah. I understand, right? Yeah. I've never had a running back number one overall, and I bet you by the end I'll succumb to this feeling that I have. It's just not natural. It should be a quarterback or a pass rush or a left tackle or, you know. So that parts, parts different, but it's also, you know, identical grades as David Bailey, R. Val Rees. I'm fascinated. This week usually doesn't change a lot at the top, and I'm not saying it necessarily will, but there's this kind of opportunity, right, with David Bailey saying he's going

to go through all the workouts today. And on Thursday, he's going to go through all the workouts. He said today on Wednesday that he's going to, except the short show. And we know Rvel Reese is. And we know Sunny Stiles is. And Sunny Stiles is a true off ball linebacker, but apparently what he's going to do here is something like Nickyman-Wory kind of stuff. So, and Jeremiah Love is going to run his 40, and that's going to wow a lot of people, and he'll go through the position drills.

But with these front seven guys, it'll be fascinating to see what comes out of this, you know? I know this. You're probably sick of talking about this, but I think we have to, especially you guys have been talking about Will Campbell for a year. You had Elliott Wolf here talking about Will Campbell. so you're probably sick of it. But the arm length thing, it's this guy. Never let's go.

But the Ruben Bain, the Miami, so, you know, you have, you know, everyone stacks it differently, but you've got, I think, David Bailey's your second player. You got Arvel Reese, I think, third. You have Ravelle Reese, like, second, David Bailey, like 34. They're right next to each other. Yeah, it's like flip-flop. Yeah. But then Ruben Bain's the top 10, and it's kind of the same thing from everyone, like,

high motor, never takes a playoff, which is always my favorite compliment people give a player anyway. But then he's got the short arms. He plays a ton of snaps, too. Like, I think you need to add that in there. They didn't rotate those guys a ton. I mean, he was always on the field. Right.

It's like not Georgia where they're rotating a lot of guys. Right. Or Tennessee. Tennessee. Yeah, Tennessee. You could play 20 snaps a game as a defensive line. Yeah. So I'm curious, do you think it matters more for arm-like?

Because we were talking about this today. Like, does arm-like matter more for like a tackle or like an edge rusher? Yeah. He's my arm-length guy. It's definitely more for a tackle, I think. Well, and I'll say this too. Let's be more specific about it. I think for a tackle, I just think it shows up more about pushing guys past the edge.

Whereas for a defensive lineman, you kind of can win in a bunch of different ways. Whereas a offensive lineman, you're a little more reactionary and you need to have that ability to push guys back and recover based on what the move is. Whereas a defensive end can say, this is my weakness, I'm going to go towards my strengths and minimize this. And I can test an offensive tackle. If you're a great ed rusher in the NFL, you're going to watch tape and be like, this is this guy's weakness.

If you were watching Will Campbell specifically, who, by the way, I do think play well this year and I think he could be really good. I think she's got to work on some things. But if you're watching, he'll have. He's got to work on lengthening his arms. He's got a frame-out. Like Clevickia. But it was clear that he was in a hard time anchoring. And it hurt his leg and then he'd get back. Yeah. And everyone in the playoffs was like, we smell blood. And so that's why they went after it. If you're an edge guy and they're like, well, we're going to take this away. Well, I'm going to go to this. And then I'm going to go to that. And I'm going to try this. So I think that that's why it's more specifically. But I will also

say, we talk about this all the time. You can't just be like, Oh, he's got short arms and whatever. Does it show up on tape? I thought with Campbell in college it did. I thought there were times where the arm length was an issue. There was a lot of talk about what I call the Draft Mafias. That's what I call him? On X about how Will Campbell had the greatest tape ever.

And I was like, apparently you didn't watch South Carolina or Ole Miss in the beginning of the year. Like there was just some bad tape. So you press this is a hot button. I mean, we're three like, warm up to Elliot Wolf questions in when he jumped jumped in and was like, yo, your left tackle, Elliot, he sucks, he's got short arms. I knew he couldn't play last year. That's not what I said. I knew it.

But can I? I think it's important to say a couple things. First of all, there's almost no point in time ever in football where the offensive tackle is a better athlete in space than the pass rush coming at him. So, yeah, arm length becomes important to, it's like the, you know, like the old nephew against the pesky little or the old uncle against the pesky little nephew. It's actually one of the more simple things to understand. It's like, yeah, the longer the arms, you keep it. You know, so I think that's important to keep in mind. So if you're asking which one's more important.

The second is, and you touched on this, but like, if you really study it, you can tell if it matters. Like, with Ruben Bain, yeah, there's some times I'd love if he had 35 inch arms because he could do a couple things that I see him get hung up on and stuck with. But, but, but, But I can tell you this. I just watched Derek Moore from Michigan, really good player, maybe late second, early third, wherever he winds up going, power, bullrusher, all that. When he uses his arms correctly, he can run over guys.

We saw in one incident, I think, at the senior ball. Did it a few times on tape I watched. But I watched a guy in Derek Moore, who was getting kind of engulfed, and it looked like he had shorter arms than a lot of the tape that I watched on Bain, who has three, probably two and a half inch. shorter arms. I was going to say, like, if you

didn't know Rubin Bain's arm length, would you have known he had short arms? No. I heard it early in the season, so I guess it's tough to say, but I didn't think it would be an issue for him. I, I hate playing this game, and this is the season. Who's going to be the fastest guy here? Who's going to have the longest arm? I'm like, it's really

difficult to tell on tape about how that's going to go. I can tell you whether or not it's a problem when I, and I can, there will be in our reports during the season, I'll write things like length, question mark, or speed question mark, because I'm seeing something. I can't things on tape that are concerning, but I'm never like, oh, this guy's, he's actually better at it.

But he can be like, he'll be like, oh, he's a four, six guy. So we were a line in college, right? Yep. And you were tackle? Guard. So I wanted to ask, because I think the tape's important. And we always talk about the arm length, but also, you know, it's nice to have played. So we said it, we do this at dinner.

And I don't know if you guys. Oh, yes. No, you're not. Yes. All right. So we have a. Yes. Gladly.

So, Todd, if you could reach toward, yeah, perfect. Is it middle finger to middle finger? How do you do it? No. Shoulder shoulder to arm. We're not doing wingspan. We'll hold the mic. Sorry.

So we're in a measurement. Should we're at the tip of the hand? Where should I be? Yeah. It's tip of your hand. Tipped of your hand. Middle finger, really. Right?

The tip of the middle finger. But isn't it like, but no one's blocking like this. It's going to be the wrist. I think it's right here. Like the dip. In the meat. Get in the meat of the shoulder. That's a medical term.

Don't you Google it. Double check. But I don't want to give them something. This one, did they go to the fingertips? That's right. Yeah. That's right. But you can't.

You can't block someone with your middle finger. You have to do the hinge of the wrist, right? Yeah, but this is how they do it. But that's dumb. Why do they do it? Why does your whole hand count? 36? You didn't cut his nails.

I think how I did it. I've got Will Campbell. 32 and... Oh, 7.8, 8. No, 33. 33. I'll take that. There we go.

There we go. All right, let's go. It's like pretty good for a card. I'm out of here. I'm getting drafted. We should say, I don't. Yeah, Hyphitz is getting married this year and he was getting fitted for his suit. His brother texted us that Hyphitz has what we believe is 34 inch arms.

So I think I'm a tackle. You do not. Get out. No way. Also, by the way, measured it with a ruler. They like went end to end with a ruler. What? This is my wife being like, oh no, a couch will fit there.

He does look long. So we're excited about that. Get in the knee to the shoulder. I feel like he's, I feel like he's cheating a little bit. Coach V in high school. Coach Vienn, I was a guard. He told me it was a center. 30 inch arm.

31. Oh, my. Listen. I'm just, I'm just, I'm drafted. Better to find out now than when you put that tux on.

My wedding tucks is not. I would be sitting there with these little sleeves. He brought me from the back of your neck. I will say 31 is makes it all the worse of Cassius Howl or, uh, River Bay come in with the 30 to half or whatever. It's the tape. My whole opinion on him is the Utah.

offensive tackle is going to have short arms too, by the And very small hands apparently and I don't see that as being a problem on he's he's on a campaign this week Yeah well fair's Fano is his guy's love affair in this class What do you think about him? He's kind of caught word yeah hands are small in the arms his phanos hands? His is small yeah He's supposed to be like under nine inches. Yeah, he's been yeah, he's been Wow, cushioning the blow this week Well, I was gonna say I would what I would call a nuanced conversation is what I would say I think we have to measure Todd's hands

Oh yeah, let's see quarterback. He's the quarterback is the Yeah So where does this thumb to be? You got to be careful. How much stuff are we measuring here today? Oh, Craig, any along sister? Yeah. All right.

I think we got a, oh, nine. Can he picket? He's in there. That's NFL. He's in there. It's bigger than Pickett. Did you know? Nine and a quarter is what, yeah.

Yeah. All right. Well, which is wild because I struggled to grip, maybe because I'm just old. But like, even when I was younger, the NFL ball was like, quick. So the Kenny Pickett can do it? with that is wild. Yeah.

Can we get Craig's hammer real quick? I'm not measuring anything. Hold on, no, no, don't. Did you play quarter? Hold on, hold on. It's, I was small in high school. I grew late. 9 and 7, 9, 9, 9 and 3 quarters.

I was, it might be 10. I don't think these are that big. Oh, they are. Yeah, do this. He's gonna dislocate his pinky. That's right. Almost 10, right? 8.8, but that looks wrong.

That doesn't look right. I just, I think that's fascinating for a couple of reasons. I think tops. We're gonna move right past. This is a man. This is a man I heard said, you're not a quarterback. No.

But this is a man I once heard say could throw for 20 yards in an NFL game. Oh, yeah. With his eight to half inch hand. It's not eight and half. Put your hand up. Let's say nine. Oh my God, those are big hands, man. Yeah, he's a big hands.

I'm realizing this thumb on the way. Yeah, we measure hand length as a straight line, but I'm like, it's kind of a circle. We don't really have good measurements for these things. You got a stretch. they really stretch out. But are you missing, I know,

you're, you're such a scout, you're so hung up on the measurements, you're missing the headline. He said he could throw for 20 yards in the NFL game. Hold on.

I think I could be schemed up to throw it for 20 yards in a game. We get Shannonhan. Give me a break. Carl Shannon. His entire week, his only goal is to get me

to 20 yards, he could do it. He could do that. Some, I'm hitting a bubble screen, a little flip, you know, you do the like little underhand. hand one foot toss, that's a pass. He could get me to 20 yards and a quarter probably.

How many beyond the line of scrimage? Well, that's a different conversation. You said you could back shoulder someone. You also say that. Listen, I get the receipts. Maybe a tight slant or something. Get it. I don't know.

I don't know. You throw a tight slant? No. But I look, screens and sweeps and things like that, I get to 20. Absolutely. A little pop-ass. Come on. Do you think I'm a, you don't know me at all?

But do you think, do you think I would be a better thrower than Kendall Hinton who got to like 18 yards. No. No. I'm with men. By the way, he was a college quarterback? Yeah,

he was a college quarterback. Oh man. Oh, man. Oh, man. Oh, man. He was bad. This is what I'm telling you. Everybody who's been in the NFL

ever is the best athlete from your hometown. But he was a receiver. They played a quarterback in that game. He was definitely the best athlete. Hold on. Did you play competitive football at any point? No.

This is wild. I played freshman year. He acted in a movie as a quarter of . Right, yeah. You can't remember, you can't remember the name. Can't remember the name. Craig's like, how did this happen?

I was vertically challenged. I was 5-2 as a freshman in my, I still played freshman football because all my friends did. Okay. I was like totally fifth quarter of all that. I was too, way too small. So let's get better at football. You paid freshman in. Sure.

But like I didn't get on the field. Did you get to 20 yards? No. How tall are you now? 6-2? Yeah. I could be schemed up. You don't think I can be schemed up.

I can kind of see why fantasy blocked all you guys You blocked all you guys in the text chain. I can actually see it. Can we talk about quarterbacks? I want to ask a question. Yes. If one of the quarterbacks not named Mendoza over the next two months gets a lot of buzz and starts to be a guy that people convince themselves should go in the first round,

mid first round, and could be a guy. Who is it? And why are they convincing themselves of that over the next two months? Todd's guy. Well, it is Ty Simpson. And I don't think it will be the next two months necessarily, except that I think teams that are interested in them. maybe the Rams at 13 or 29 or the Jets at 16 is their second pick,

which I, God, I hope that he doesn't wind up there. We all do, yeah. But what's the elevator pitch? The Browns are, what, 24? The elevator pitch is through nine games last year. He was the best quarterback in the country because Mendoza played his best ball late in the season, and then things fell apart for Tia Simpson. Now he's got some questions to answer, like what happened?

I know some of the reasons why, but there's, no excuses at that position. What are the reasons why? For starters, your best wide receiver, and that's not even the biggest thing, but that's the easy one. Your best wide receiver just stopped producing. Drops. Drops and confidence and everything else.

A guy that was like 1A, 1B with Jeremiah Smith coming out and recruiting. He was supposed to be an absolute star. The faces of the video. He disappears. Most importantly, they didn't have a run game. And so we saw it with Nussmeyer, even the year earlier, when he had the really good year. it wears on you over time when you're having to carry the offense. And then the third part is,

I think Venables figured out how to beat their protections. And I think everyone after that kind of used that blueprint. And so you add those three things together. And then was it gastritis? Gastritis, like, I mean, he got the shit kicked out of me at a back injury. And then gastritis basically it seemed like a consequence of taking so many, so much pain medication and, you know. Down to 190 pounds by the Rose Bowl, as the reports.

And so it's a lot of things. So you want to see him, or is he back to 210? Is he healthy? What are the medical reports? I mean, he, I was told by someone I know is very close to him in his family. He wasn't even throw. He couldn't throw at the senior bowl. So, and he was, it was a dream of his since he was like 12 years old to play at the senior

ball. Just literally was not cleared to throw yet. So he's coming in just off of, what, a couple, couple weeks, a couple few weeks of getting prepared. But hopefully he's medically doing great, 210 pounds, like, normal can kind of answer some of the questions, certain things. And it's not going to be him doing anything physical from this point out. Because physically, we know what he is. Yeah, nothing that jumps off the page, right?

No. I think he doesn't have an elite physical trait. I don't think he has any red flags either. He's a better arm than everyone wants to give him credit. He's more mobile than everyone wants to give him credit. But he doesn't have an elite trait. And some guys just won't draft quarterbacks that don't have an elite trait. So I get that part.

But where he's elite is his mind and his scheduling, his organization. So you said pretty much. Pre-snap, post-snap, all the things that go into it. And I think he's going to really wow some people with that aspect of it. And is that enough to get a team to draft him in the middle of first round? We'll wait and see. But I can't imagine he's going to get out of the top 40. And I'll be surprised if he's not a first round.

You know what scares the hell, am I? We've seen an Alabama quarterback wait to get the start. job, come in, have an amazing year, get drafted in the middle of first round, and it did not go well. I mean, Mac Jones is like different players, I know all the time you want to talk about this. No, no. They're different players. You're going to make fun of L.A. Wolfeiting. 15 starts is frightening. It's a lot of experience. It's scary, man. It's scary. 13 games you played? 15 starts, yeah. It's frightening. And the history tells you that he's going to have to be a complete outlier and so first

round picks at 15 starts like it doesn't work and so we'll see but um I like them you can fall in love with the tape you can easily fall in love with the tape there's there's plays there's games and plays that you're like yeah this guy's a dude yeah there's in the early part

of the season where people were like this is the QE1 as you said yeah so five star guy too five star guy yeah yeah I'm worried about the fact that he is an outlier to me that's just this the last of starts thing is tough and he's already a little bit older. But I mean, if he ends up somewhere where he is a backup for a little bit and get some time to like season out or whatever,

whatever you want to call it. Somewhere. It's one of those. Somewhere the Rams. So we have this, we have this market now, right? With Malik Willis all of a sudden is the greatest quarterback. Right. That's kind of wild by the way. Is that a little wild? And the Steelers really want Aaron Rogers to come back for a year. And Daniel Jones, I think, you know, but I'm just saying that so, so this is the market that we have. And you say to yourself, well, we could get a really good player. But we're also all saying that, what do? I got 10, 10 to 12 guys with true first round grades in this class. So you get me to 13. And I'm like, all right. So I'm getting what I would consider an early second round pay. If that's, if that's what the board is, is it worth just taking a shot here? Or I get Matthew

Stafford and we got, we got like the smallest of windows. So I better get another. So. It's, for each organization that would entertain it, there's a lot that goes into this. But I also know, I'm close friends with a couple GMs who spent one who is out of the league now and another, who has spent a vast majority of careers chasing a quarterback, doing everything else right, getting every other position right, great rosters. We all applauded, everything, can't get the quarterback right. So, like maybe I just keep taking hacks, right? I don't know.

I think there's something to say for drafting one every year. Yeah. Like, you know. Andrew Barry said that. Just take one. And his press for yesterday. He was like, I don't say a problem with taking a quarterback every single year. I think there's something.

Like, if you hit. You mean, you hit. You get like a Russell Wilson and you have that rookie contract. Nothing more valuable. Nothing. Nothing. Well, and they look at the Browns are the most analytics-driven front office in the league. Which is so funny.

Well, I mean, the Jonah Hill for money, right. Paul de Podesta had to run high tail of the Rockies. And the Rockies aren't, I mean, the Rockies are trying to put a salary cap on non-player spending. So, I mean, I don't know if that was like. But they're just looking at it from a value standpoint. You draft one in the fourth or fifth or even the six or seven thing. You go get a third for them. That's compensated.

Draft one in the third. You can get the sixth. Now, eventually, you've got to be able to draft players and develop them with all those picks that you get, you know. But conceptually, they're not. I agree with that portion of the analytical puzzle. John Schneider used to say it all the time. I mean, he didn't actually do it, but he's... I love that.

Take the best player on the board. We need a tackle. It happens all the time. I think it was it... Elliot Wolfer was it... Who was it before him? San Francisco. Not John Lynch.

I was the guy. Did he go to Jacksonville, Trent Balkan? No, it's Bill Wall. was Bill Walsh, it was up that mindset. But I know that Elliot Walsh was one of the first GMs in position where it's like, if it's not every year, it's every other year. Even if when you'll draft one, we're going to bring one in, you know. Everyone told, he asked, Bill Walsh has to everyone in the Niners on the organization.

Should we trade for Steve Young? Everyone told him no. And he was like, fuck it, I did it anyway. And good idea. And like, no one knows. The smartest people you dig through the well, Belichick, Bill Walsh, Ron Wolf. They're all like, no one knows. Throw a bunch of darts.

The Patriots with the draft. They're like no one knows it's hard. Like we want more picks and more picks. You can be more right. And so I'm, the quarter of a thing I could talk about forever. But to the thing you guys just alluded to at the draft, how much do we talk all the time teams? Yeah, you got to take the best player available.

Does anyone actually take the best player available after the first 40 picks? Well, they do on their, this is the tricky thing, right? Because need drives up value. So they're all of a sudden they're looking at that guy and they're like, well, he's actually, we like him a little bit more than this other guy, even though his knee drives up value. But then their final board, they're having him higher. So like, oh, it's the highest guy on our board.

And it's like, well, there's a little bit of bias there. You stack the board to what you needed. Right. Yeah. So, I mean, otherwise Caleb Downs would go, what? Well, you, this is something that's crazy to me. And I want to ask you about where he is on your board. You don't have Caleb Downs in the top three.

You have, how is it? Can I look real quick? Sure. He's number four. He's got three 94's. And then Caleb Downs at a 93. I just don't know, like, I just don't know who's a better player. than Caleb Downs is.

You know what I mean? So that was interesting to me. I love Caleb. I have him at three, so very close. High Fitz is obsessed with Caleb Downs. He's your guy. I just think the positional value thing,

it's like, it depends why. And I think the difference is, I think we've seen in recent years, there's a ton of evidence that if you take a running back and you're not really, you haven't built the infrastructure,

the running back doesn't actually make people better. The running back needs other people to, you know, the Giants didn't win the Seekin' the Panthers didn't win the Christian McCaffrey. It's like, yeah. It's like if Zik goes to the Cowboys in the best old,

line in the NFL or Christian McAfee goes to Shanhan or Gurley goes to Sean McVeigh or Saquin goes to the Eagles. Best offensive line, best play caller running backs work. Otherwise, it doesn't seem to have an impact. I will say the safety thing, kind of player, I don't know what position you necessarily want to call him. He could do a bunch of things. I just think it's so clear that he's making everyone else better. He increases the margin of error for all these other positions. And so I think, I don't think any of the team should be taking Jeremiah Love and the first five or six picks solely because I think it's a mistake. The same way the Raiders probably should to tick Membu instead of Ash and Genti.

But if I look at Caleb Downs, I see the Giants taking Kvon, Tibado and Evan Neal over Kyle Hamilton. And everyone's like, well, he's the best player in the draft, Kyle Hamilton a few years ago. And then you're like, can you take him? No, he's a safety. And then a year later, you're like, well, he's the best player in the league. And I'm like, just take Caleb Downs. This might do sense.

I guess it was more like a dog. No, no, no, no. I'm asking. Like running back is obviously more, you know, predicated, success is predicated on those around them and blocking and everything. else. I do think safety to a certain... I don't think it's predicated. I think the value

you get from a safety is predicated on, do you have the people up front to allow him to then go be a star? You know? And the Ravens did. Yeah. The Giants do not. Well, the Giants... The Giants do. They need to...

They need their run defense short up, and I think they can help in that regard. They've got pass rushers. Yeah. And so, but here's the thing, here's the thing I struggle with, because I could make the argument all day long. He's the best football player in this draft, just football player instincts. He's like a step and a half ahead of all these guys who eight of them who got drafted last year and another, how many are going to go this year. It feels like half the first round of Ohio State defensive players again.

But he's not that big. He's average size. Right. I think he's going to be good speed, like four, four, three, four, four, four. four or something like that but he's not even wary size speed right he's not that length of a kyle hamilton he's he falls off some tackles he's not elite in some coverage situations deep at middle like so but i absolutely adore what he is and i think he's again probably the best football player in this draft but am i going to take that over an edge rusher if i'm a team picking

in the top ten and i'm just not ready to plug in that piece you know i guess that's that's my struggle is. I hear you. I mean, you just made my pitch, though. And we're like nitpicking. We really are. I just think it's interesting. Yeah. So a couple things just before we get out of here. I want to start with you because I'm not going to, I'll tell you who made this comparison

afterward, but someone respected compared, Jeremiah, I love to Reggie Bush. And I want to ask you what you think of that, because I thought Reggie Bush, as a college player was on that level of, like, compare you. and tied into Gronk or something, and I really thought twice. And I'm curious, should people take that, like, should people get, like, we're almost stuck so much talking about how Jeremiah Love shouldn't be taking that top ten running back. Right.

Is another Reggie Bush coming into the league? Do you think he's actually? I mean, I think where that comp comes from is the passing game work that Jeremiah Love would provide. Like, he's a legit receiver, which is, I think, what made Reggie Bush so great. And Reggie Bush, I just don't make comps like that typically unless I'm, like, super, super sure that this guy's going to be transformational in the NFL.

But, I mean, I understand where it's coming from stylistically point of view, explosive player, break tackles, explosive plays. I mean, and then the passing game stuff is massive. So, but, yeah, I mean, it's, I understand where it's coming from. I just, it's hard to compare someone

to Reggie Bush. That's all. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not saying it's wrong, or, like, I don't, I just, like, I think there's more bejean, maybe. I think there's,

stylistically. Yeah. little different. I hear what you're saying. It's not a smooth. But what they can do, but the style of how they do it to me is a little bit different. Is he on par with Bijan Ashton Jentees?

He above those guys, below them? Bejohn's different. Yeah, he was, he's, well, I think we went through it the other day. I gave a grade. Was it on par with Genty? I think he's closer than Gentie than but not Bijjan.

Was there someone else we had that we were going through? Is Sequin in there? Sequins. Sequins. Sequins highest. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It makes sense you don't agree with the comparison. The Mel Kuyper's comp for Jeremiah Love is Reggie Bush. Of course he did that. Of course he was there. He was there the whole time. He's got the 40 years. So what you respect. Mel Kiper.

He gave me a career 50. He gave me a career for 15 years. It was a lot of fun. Like just, you know. I meant to ask you at dinner if we could do the Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, if that was, if that was fun. And then I remembered you're in the video. So I was like, okay. That was a weird deal, man.

That was the day of the, we taped that the day of the Boston bombing. And my family back in Boston checked in with like one of the top executives. And it was like, yo, I got it. I got to get back home, you know. And he's like, is everyone alive and say? I was like, yeah, right now. But, you know, and there's like, uh, and where did you? Where did you live?

He's like, Calliando's been in makeup for eight hours. I can't. You know, I was like, okay. So we do all that. So we went through and we taped a bunch of different segments. And he's running down to the. the calf where there's a Starbucks, he's chugging coffee to do with that, that transportation thing. Then he comes up and he stinks like coffee.

And he's like, oh, he's standing over my shoulder. And he's like, I think we got everything we needed. And he's like legitimately hopped up because he was drinking that much coffee. And I was like, he's like, can you think of anything else I miss? Like take a minute. And I was like, honestly, the only thing I could think of. And I don't know if you have a bit for it. But like, including my mom and my family, I don't think a human being has ever said my first name more.

And he's like, you know, he's like, give me a couple of examples. I was like, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, you know. And so he goes, all right. He goes, he went back into his studio that he was in because we were taping from different places. And that's where it was birth. And we did that last segment that became the Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd. In like a minute and a half. We did it one take.

He just went nuts. And then that was it. That's the best. Wait, you're better impressions than me. Can you do it? Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd. That's not bad. That's not bad.

Yeah. It's pretty good. Oh my God. All right. Well, anything else you guys want to hit? Muzra, give me a player that you love in this draft.

Dillon, from, yeah. I am excited to see what he does. I've heard that he's like super explosive, super fast, maybe even even running the four threes or something like that. I don't know if we'll get there,

but he was a guy that when you turn on the tape, you're like pleasantly surprised. Oh, this guy is legit. So he wouldn't be one guy that came to mind. How are you guys feeling about him? I was watching his freshman tape at, at Purdue because he played in the box last year a lot. And when he was a freshman, he played deep.

Six picks in his, and I'm watching him like, this guy can play free safety. Like he runs like a free safety. He tracks like a free safety. Tasha Poy says he's the best nickel. He's ever, slot cover that he's ever been around. Play him in the nickel, play him in the box. He's going to run really well. He said like stuff in practice even that you don't see on tape.

He's like, this is, this is something. He's got, it's a good safety. You get Caleb Downs, we're debating as he the best player in the class. Um, Emmanuel McNeil Warren. I love. He's a fun player. I like him a lot. So you could have three safeties in the, in the first round, which is not in every year

occurrence, but yeah. Anyone else you love D.K.? DK weirdly bats 85% with wide receivers. He's like the wide receiver five. Oh, give me your, uh, give me your McKay Lemon take. Uh, I like, I like them. I actually think it's going to be fascinating to see. Did he measure yet?

Like how big he is? Uh, no. So the measure, the, the, we're taping this. on Wednesday night. So tomorrow, Thursday is defensive linemen and linebackers. And then they, basically the morning, it's different than they, they used to do it in advance. It's the morning of their

workout. They, they, yeah, right, okay. Guys, I'm not crazy. I got all that wrong on our last Friday shows. No, they changed a couple years ago, but yeah, but I like it. I think this is, again, it goes to the question that this whole draft kind of brings up is like, how high do you take a guy

who primarily has played inside, I guess? I mean, I think he can play a little bit outside, That's where he's been at his best. Is that worth the top 10 pick? I think that's what teams are going to have to ask themselves. It's very similar to the safety question. It's very similar to the offball linebacker question. Who's your favorite receiver?

Tate. Tate. Yeah. And then Lemon? Yeah, I think so. Let me see. Yeah. And then I like, there's like Casey Concepcion.

I like in that a lot. I like Denzel Boston a lot. Jordan Tyson I like a lot. And I think those kind of are my top five guys. Is there one outside of the five that you kind of want to plant a flag? or no. I mean, I like Omar Cooper a lot as well. Yeah, of Omar Cooper. He's, I think, similar to Lemon, there's going to be questions of whether he plays outside, whether he's just a slot type of guy. You know, it's interesting, he, um, I didn't realize this. He, until I went back and was watching,

he played, um, it's almost flip-flop the snaps, vast majority in slot in 25, vast majority on the outside in 24. So there is, you know, there is tape. It's a little different without Mendoza and all. But he didn't have the year, but he at least has some reps there. But yeah, I hear you. I think body control, hands, reliable hands, run after the catch, toughness. How about this cop? A back for the big play.

Jarvis Landry actually with speed. Right. Yeah, I love that. I heard you say that. And I think the side, like in terms of just his physical, he's a thicker player. Yeah. Yeah. Like he's not like a skinny, spindly slot guy.

He's got some bulk to him and really tough. big at the catch point. I mean, we all see in the crazy catches that he makes. I think that's obviously like... He blocks. He might be the best blocker.

I've seen on tape so far. Yes, lemon. Lemon fever. You're at Lemon though? You don't like Lemon? I love Lemon. I love his tape.

I don't think traditionally... Like, I loved Elijah Moore when he's coming out of Ole Miss. I mean, he had some of the best hands I've ever seen on tape. Yeah. But he was... I don't think he's going to be that small.

But love... Love is one of those things. You put some perspective on your love. Like, you can... That's my perspective. You can... You can love a girl that you only want to take on a date one time. You don't really love her.

Yeah, I, yeah, I'm not. You kind of think she's hot and you want to kick the tires a little bit. Right. But by the way, this is, he does this all the time. It's always comes back. But truthfully, if you, in order to love Mackay Lemon, you've got to have them up and arrange with the where the people love them. I will be more specific. I understand what you're saying.

I really like. I love how competitive he is. I think he can be really good. I don't think receivers that. I mean, I think I'm, I'm on Ross St. Brown is 511. But when you start to get under six foot, it was like 511, three quarters, I think.

That's ideal. If that's what Lemon is, I'm like, I'm fired up and he's probably going to be my number two receiver. That being said, right now, I don't think he is. And if he's 5, 10 or shorter, I just, like, we're talking about outliers again, outliers again. And why am I like, what's he run? Is he going to run a great, like, I just don't know.

I'm not ready to stamp it. He's a Parcell's tree guy. probably in yeah yeah i mean i don't know if this is a good very good comp but i threw this out to these guys and they kind of like shot me down but he reminded me of duck baldwin a little bit in the sense that uh route running ability to uncover quickly separate it really quickly and then just incredible catches his catch radius and his ability to go up a toughness at the catch point really reminded me of duck baldwin i'm a seahawks homer so i was going to say you got a

love lemon our argument was like if he's dug baldwin that's not a first round pick Right. That is, that's insane to me. Maybe not a top 10 pick. I think that's insane that you think that's not a first, I guess. But yeah, that's, like go watch Doug Baldwin.

Yeah, we're going to have lost in this one. Yeah, you haven't watched Doug Baldwin enough. That's the problem. I'm not rewatching Doug Baldwin today. We're going to get 20 yards of the game. So you guys don't think I could get 20 yards is where we're going to end this.

You don't think Shane and hand could get me to 20. Nothing. I'll be honest. Before you tried to stretch your hand out and I saw how the lack of flexibility in your handspin. We can massage that though. There might have been a chance. But then when you told me you never played organized football and your hands don't

really spread out. Yeah. More vertical length than horizontal. Unfortunately. I, I'm not, I thought about that. I,

I texted hyphids. I was like, what is happening right here? Was that in the take? Munch? I do about. Mets takes things literally. I always imagine you really getting in.

With the helmet, it's maybe a little too big. Yeah. And you're just trying to run around, not get killed by a pass brusher. And you're like, Just throwing it up like the loose sleeves. Yeah.

There's like a. You also have to understand. Like, I do think this is funny too. Like you like you think the screen game that this guy that's going to be 15 yards out here. I know it's a lot of the velocity on this past before a corner an NFL corner can jump it and take it. He's going to bounce the pass. He's going to like.

We need Channing on the on the show. There's a way to get it done. It would be better more entertaining than the Pro Bowl. I mean, if we could set it up. I mean, that would be better to watch. There's a bit I think in not another teen movie, which you guys probably have never seen. Yeah, I've seen it.

There's a guy that they let him go out on the field and he just gets chopped in half. That's kind of like what I'm picturing. I'm not saying like, Mahomes gets hurt. I come in, no one knows and thinks I'm a right. And I just have to like hit a fucking post. I'm not saying that. I'm like, Shanahan for a week is like, all right, if I get Craig to 20 yards, I win a billion dollars. Stop.

I'm doing some things. Stop. Stop. Yeah. Like, yeah, maybe. That's what I'm saying. A healthy Tyree Hill. then like maybe he could get 20 yards open.

Tyree killed me 15 yards open. You got to get it. No, I'm saying like on a, on a, on a jet sweep motion where he just catches it and he instead of go, he goes like that. You know, the year my home has had 50 touchdowns, like six of them were little flips to Travis Kelsey, the little shuffles forward, the little Tyreeks.

Craig's A-DOT is going to be negative. Yeah. I do think he'd throw behind Tyreek though in the motion. No way he doesn't. Like just even. Yeah. Yeah. you're very plugged in

can you ask one of the GMs and you're part of your decision makers I ask them Absolutely not A generally athletic 6-2 civilian decently athletic I would say Played sports You know I want to know

Thank you guys for coming on Yeah thanks I appreciate McShay report It's phenomenal You guys have had I think a quarter of the GMs in the league Even if none of the match Actually answered the questions

People want to know about Craig's 20 yards passing But phenomenal show. Please check it out. And McShay report, DK's got his draft guide out, his top 50, big board,

NFL draft. That's good. McShay report, which is, um, I got lost in it down in Mowgli. Yeah. I did.

T.J. Parker caught my eye. You were a little higher on him than anyone going into the week. Yeah. He's the only one comparing Peter Woods to characters in Dune. That was interesting.

That we'll talk about it. No, I can't get there. Yeah. Not shy ha lewd. Yeah. Thank you, Shia.

Thank you, D.K., thank you, DK., thank you, Todd, Todd, Todd, Todd. Thank you, Tucker. Thank you, Comer. Thank you, Nick. Nick's got a boat, by the way.

Thank you, Jake. Thank you, awesome. Thank you for listening. Oh, thank you, Lauren. Lauren. They don't know what that is. Oh, no, they don't know what that is. What's your favorite band?

What's happening? We're saying, we're ending the show. I'm a national guy. I'm a national. Oh, that's great. There we go. Perfect. All right.

Boom. Thank you, the national. All right. Goodbye, everyone.