The Ringer NFL Show - Can Tyreek Fix Tua, Will the Chiefs Survive, and the Value of a First-Round Pick

Episode Date: March 23, 2022

We react to the Dolphins trading for Kansas City WR Tyreek Hill and assess the deal from the perspective of both teams. Then we react to Liberty QB Malik Willis’s pro day, and play America’s favorite game, Two Draft Jargons One Lie, as well as a listener version. (1:31) The Chiefs offense without Tyreek Hill (18:28) The Dolphins with Tyreek Hill (31:54) Malik Willis pro day (34:21) Two Draft Jargons One Lie (39:22) Listener Two Jargons One Lie Check out Danny Kelly’s latest mock draft at The Ringer’s 2022 NFL Draft Guide. Email us! [e-mail]. Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, Ben Solak, and Craig Horlbeck Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, hey, my taste buds. It is your hungry homie, Joe House, here to tell you about the latest installment of House of Carps. On the Ringer Food Network, we are doing Munch Madness. Eight of the most underrated college food towns in America, we're trying to find a succulent Cinderella story. Won't you join us? Listen now on Ringer Food. Welcome to the Ringer NFL Draft Show. My name is Daniel Hyfitz. I am joined by Danny Kelly, Ben Solek, and Craig Rolbeck, and we are coming to you every Tuesday and Thursday to talk NFL draft, everything about it.

And as always, you can check out the ringer draft guide at nfledraft. Dot the ringer.com, curated by the one and only Mr. Daniel. Daniel, Daniel, Daniel, I said Daniel, Daniel, NFL draft. NFL draft.com. Daniel, Daniel, I don't know. It's only my name. Danny? It works.

Danny, Kelly. It works. Danny Kelly's mock draft. Dan Kelly's mock draft. You got a draft. Many of my high school friends still call me Dan, by the way. So that doesn't sound foreign to them. So we, I mean, again, a lot going on.

This is, we're going to talk about Malik Willis's Pro Day. We've got, again, just this is the craziest offseason. We're going to go through the most interesting teams in the NFL draft. But first, we have to deal with Tyree Kill got traded today because what else is going on? We're recording this Wednesday. It's like 4 o'clockish Eastern. So Kansas City gets a first. a second and a fourth in this year's draft,

plus a fourth and a sixth in next year's draft. The dolphins get Tyree Kill. The dolphins then, you know, they agree to it before, but dolphins are also signing Tyree Kill to a four-year deal for $120 million. Really,

it's like a three-year extension for like $78 million. You can do the math a bunch of ways. Basically, Tyree Kill is getting, give or take, $25 million a year or so, $23 million, whatever it is,

a lot per year. He's now the highest paid receiver in the NFL. It's like the chief saw the Devante Adams trade and we're like, yep, yes, please. We'll take one of those. So in a nutshell, Ben Solek. Why are the chiefs trading Tyreek Hill? Yeah, great question, Danny.

This happened. I want to know too. Yeah, this happened in like an hour, right? It's not happening in afternoon, right? We didn't have enough time to be like, what? Why? Who? It was just like extension talks are stopping. The dolphins and the jets are involved. He's with the dolphins. Any questions? Like, yeah, let's go

I'd like to go back to the first part where extension talks stalled. I think that you have, you know, there was floating around on, like, football Twitter a few years ago when I think Sashi was the GM of the Browns. There was this image of his, like, guardrails, or the Brown's guardrails for evaluating, right? And it was kind of like organizational edicts, like, what are we going to be as an organization? But the word guardrails was important. So it was basically like within these ideas, like we can have some flexibility. We can change stuff. we can kind of react to the moment, whatever.

But these are going to be like our boundaries that we're going to kind of, you know, believe in where our philosophy is going to come from. And I would imagine just in Kansas City that there is some sort of a guardrail, right? There's some sort of a red flag that pops up where it, where Tyree Kill starts demanding 30 million per year, right? And they look at the Travis Kelsey contract, right, where he's, you know, do. I think it's like 10 million per year, whatever their extension was for him. let's say he is okay he's an 8.8 million cap at this year and that's 14 16 and 18 million right so

after their extension he's looking like an eight figure guy and then they look at a tyreek hill deal and they say we we can't pay that much to our our wide receiver room because kind of Travis Kelsey's in that room and they went to hill and they said let's let's find a middle ground let's find a we make you the second highest paid receiver we put you just below deandre hopkins and you still get to play with my homes you still get to play with with Kelsey which you love so much And Hill's camp thought they could put their foot down and say no. And the Chiefs thought they could put their foot down and say no. And eventually it became a matter of, all right, what does Tyreek care about more?

Playing with Malm's for another year, winning another ring, or getting that extra figure and getting that standing as being the highest paid receiver in the league. And clearly that went out. So I don't think the Chiefs benefit in any way schematically from moving on from Tyree Kale. I do not think the Chiefs have any sort of belief. in Miko Hardman that led them to think that they can like sneak around with Tyreek Hill. I do not believe that the chiefs saw more too high defenses. Tyreek Hill had his lowest A dot of his career with Mahomes at like 11.8 this season or something

like that. And then they said, right, we just don't need a field stretcher anymore. I don't buy any of that. I think the chiefs wanted to bring Tyreek Hill back. And Hill said, make me the absolute highest paid receiver. The chief said, we can't do that. We're tied up against the cap. And that's not how we're going to build the team.

And Hill said, then I want out. And the chief said, listen, we have to draw a line in the same. sand somewhere and this is our line in the sand. This is actually kind of, I feel like it's a little bit similar to the Seahawks situation. Obviously, it's not a quarterback, so that's the one major thing is, but like they're looking forward and they're like, we can't tie up so much of the cap in one player or two players that we completely neglect the rest of this roster. And their roster already has a lot of holes from kind of missing in drafts over the last few

years. And they have this opportunity to move on from a guy who's probably past his apex in terms of explosiveness speed and that's a big part of his game. Maybe they see him as a potentially guy who's going to start declining quickly when he when he reaches 29, 30 years old. And they're like, look, we're going to get incredible value for him now. Let's just do this as a forward looking move because we still have Patrick Mahomes in her contract for 10 years, a decade. So I don't, I think I agree with everything Ben said in terms of it doesn't make sense for them schematically. But like they're probably

just looking at this big picture. You know, Kelsey's getting older. Tyreeks getting older. we're never going to get more for this guy than right now. Yeah, but isn't this a little too prudent? I mean, like, it's hard to win a Super Bowl. And, you know, you need a lot of things to align. And right now they have the best quarterback in the league, the best tight end in the league, and the best wide receiver in the league, arguably,

with a fantastic offensive scheme. Like, is this a little bit too safe? Probably. I don't think so. I think that here's the thing. I think that the reality is the hardest part about evaluating these trades is that the people making them usually have more information than you and also just are smarter than you.

And they're there every day. And that's true of nobody more than Andy Reid. Like nobody's actually able to assess what Tyree Kill means to the Kansas City offense better than Andy Reid. And Brett Feach, who's the GM, but like, you know, Andy Reid and him are really making these decisions. And I kind of just have to defer to read in this situation because he's earned it. Like, it's important to remember when Andy Reid was running the Eagles.

Like the Eagles, I mean, Ben knows they made four NFC championship games in a row. Like, I know the team, you know, never won a super. but like Andy Reid's proven at this point. Andy Reid has like been a coach for like 22 seasons. He's had like two losing seasons ever. And I think that the through line of these two trades of the chiefs getting rid of Tyre Kill, the Packers getting rid of Devante Adams is the chiefs and the Packers are both teams. They're looking at their situation. Like we've got Rogers and Mahomes. And while the chiefs have Mahomes under contract, the Packers now do too, they're like as long as we have these guys, we're going to be able to go for the Super Bowl. It's about we're not maximizing our title window like

the Bucs are with Tom Brady. And they're like, yeah, well, one more year, two more years. And then, like, our team's going to explode. Like, we'll have no money left. We're going to go bankrupt because we pushed all our debt into the future. And, like, we'll have to go bankrupt. The Packers and the Chiefs are like, we need to maximize our title window because the most important ingredient, Mahomes or Rogers, is here forever in theory. They can play as long as they want. And so I think that's kind of what they're doing here.

And I feel fundamentally, this is a lot of picks. A first, a second, a fourth, another fourth, and his sixth. The Chiefs have a lot of holes, too. Like, they signed juju, but like, they need to. a right tackle. They need edge rushers. Frank Clark is like, you know, fine. Honestly, he's more name than value at this point. I don't know. I think the chiefs need a good bit

and this is kind of to replenish the roster. So I had, right, I remember doing with Kevin and Nora on the NFL show pre-2020 season, top five rosters. And Kevin and Nora both had the chiefs like top two, and I didn't have him top five. And I was like, what are we talking about? This is not this isn't a top five roster.

Mahomes and Reed, I mean, I mean, chief coaches don't count on that roster idea, right? But Mahomes and Reed, cover a lot of problems for you. But like offensive line, which obviously they did some stuff. Pass rusher,

linebacker, corner. It's not pretty. This team doesn't have to run Matthew anymore. They brought in Justin Reed, who's a good replacement, but not like a full on Matthew. And I know Matthew was a little bit worse last year. But in general,

like there's a lot of like, oh, the chiefs are big on the wide receiver one drafted in the first round, kind of a response to this. And I believe they are. But we got to remember, they got one first round pick.

And if they spend that first round pick on a wide receiver, they still got all the problem. they had last year in terms of corner and pass rush that they have to address with the remaining picks and getting a lot of picks right on one year horizon is really tough. Here I think is the fundamental point. Teams are looking at the wide receiver market and they're like, well, Tyree Kill is going to get paid $25 million a year. Justin Jefferson is getting about half that for his entire rookie contract. Do you want four years of Justin Jefferson at $13 million or one

year of Tyree Kill for $25 million every year. And so teams look at the draft and say, well, if there's so many receivers, so like I said before, there's no more bad receiver drafts, why don't we just replace these guys in the draft? And so that's my question for you, DK. It's like, as we look at the draft this year, there's no like one for one replacement for Kansas City to get another Tyree Kill. But like, who in this draft could the chiefs get to get some juice in this draft at

the receiver position? Because now they have back-to-back first-run picks at 28 or 29 to 30. of 28 and 29? It is 29 and 30. 29 and 30. So, you know, I think going back to your point real quick, like, I do think they're looking at this

from a pragmatic point of view in terms of we need to have more depth. We can't rely on one or two players to, like, fuel our championship goals every year, even though maybe that is the best way to do it. Who knows? Like, it's a philosophical. Philosophical.

It's a philosophical discussion, which there are, no clear answers to, of course, but, you know, I think they're looking at this like we have to reload. However, they have to hit on these picks, which is the point I was going to make is they have a million options at 29 and 30, I should say, and there could be multiple different receivers that they could grab at 29 or 30, or maybe they grab guys at both those spots. That would be kind of fun. But again, going back in the history, you know, a lot of first round draft picks are busts. One of their most recent first round picks was Clyde Edwards-Coleer, who was like a third string

running back. And so, you know, obviously you have to execute your plan. I think a couple guys really make a ton of sense if they fall to this 29.30 spot. Chris Olave from Ohio State has the speed to take the top off of defense, really smooth, can get open early, like a really good route runner, all that stuff. I think he makes a ton of sense for them. And then James and William's from Alabama would be sort of the dream, I think, for them if he lasts that long. He is coming off an ACL injury, so he would not be ready to start the season right away, likely, but he has the most speed. And I guess you'd say he's probably like the closest comp to Tyreek in terms of what he could do tilting the field, tilting the defense in his direction, making sure the defense knows this guy

where he is every play, down to down, and it changes the geometry of the way that defenses have to play. So that's kind of like, those two guys in particular look like, you know, the best targets for them, but they may not be there. So from there, there's probably like 20 other guys. Christian Watson from North Dakota State. I've seen as another popular option. He's very, very fast. And the first round for Watson?

Yeah, I mean, that would be a reach in my mind. But like, you know, those happen every year. So that might be something that they do. George Pickens from Georgia, I think would be a nice fit for them. And he ran a 4-3-9, I believe, at the combine. So he's got the speed to take the top off of a defense. He's a perfect outside receiver type guy. that would pair well with Juju Smith-Schuster,

who they signed up for agency. So they have a ton of options. But again, it's two in hand versus one in the bush. And, you know, we'll see. Time will tell whether this was the right plan. Well, I mean, with Tyree Kilman, this is so tough. I can't think of another wide receiver who's more connected to the team's offense

and has a better connection with his quarterback. I mean, it's probably Devante Adams. I was going to say, yeah. The Packers also got rid of. Are wide receivers being treated like running backs now or because of this hot recent market with Justin Jefferson and Co. That people are like,

well, we can get 80% of Tyree kill in the draft for 20% of the price. Like, might as well just go with that. When that might actually not be the case. Like, are we really confident that if they bring in Juju Smith-Schuster and they draft some guy at 30, that that's gonna, and then all the other shit

they can do with the rest of the money to patch up the rest of the team? Like, is that better than just having perhaps the best deep threat and connection at wide receiver in the league? So I do not think that you are capable of replacing Tyreek Hill with one player. I think if you gave the chiefs just carte blanche

to take any receiver from any team, right, go get Jalen Waddle, go get Debo Samuel, some of these guys who get Hill comparisons, I still think it would work, right? In terms of the ability to stretch the field with long speed and then the ability to create an explosive out of a bubble screen because he's so elusive and he's so good in short areas at breaking angles and breaking tackle,

like again, like you would go for a waddle, you'd go for a debo, maybe you'd get it, but I don't think you would, right? So I don't think you were placing him with one player. I think what you can argue

is that however efficient the chief's 2021 passing offense was, is how efficient the chief's 22 passing offense can be. It won't look the same, but efficiency-wise, big bucket numbers, let's get Juju, let's get Kelsey, let's go, you know, trade for sidewill-fuller or whatever,

get ourselves like another speed sur to kind of help stretch things out. And then let's trap crystal lava in the first round. And the combined addition of all those players, plus the way the offense changes, plus your trust and read can lead to, again, a super efficient passing offense with Patrick Mahomes at the helm. That, that I think is more so the angle. Not we're going to run the same offense and somehow replace Tyreek,

but rather we're going to run a different offense and have the same passing efficiency at a cheaper price tag. But that in and of itself is a very narrow road to walk, brother. that is that is introducing a lot of uncertainty. And yeah, if there's somebody I'd like to hand that problem off to and say, solve this, it'd be Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes. That's the team I'd like to do it. And that's the gamble the chiefs are making is that Reed is so good and Mahomes is so good

that they can go cheaper at receiver, right? They can follow that guardrail of not overspending at that position and still find a really effective passing offense. It's just, it's a swing. It's a big swing at the plate. That's why it was really funny to me today. when while the conversation was happening of Tyriekill might get traded,

they're like, oh, but by the way, Marcus Valda Scantling is in town visiting replacement. Yeah, it's not a one for one. It's not a one for one thing. Guy available on the ninth day of free agency is going to come in and replace Tyree Kil. Here's my key point, though. If we zoom out, I agree with two things.

One, what Craig said about, other than Devante, Tyreek is as layered into the offense, and it's hard to imagine how the chiefs could play their style without him, right? And I get that. And I also get what you guys are saying about no one person in place is Tyree Kill because he's not just speed. It's also the jitteriness.

He's like literally the fastest player in the NFL, maybe the fastest player since Dion Sanders. But also it's like he's also like other than Lamar Jackson, the guy that you would never be able to get intact. It's like the lateral. And so you can't replace that. However, I just did the math live on air. Do you know what the Chief's record was before Patrick Mahomes was the starter with Andy Reed? 12 and 4?

No, no, no. Like the whole before, when Alex Smith was the guy, when Andy Reid came to Kansas City, they were 53 and 27 in the regular season before Mojones was a starter. 53 and 27, they're winning two thirds of their games, which in the NFL is literally the best. Like the Brady Belichick Patriots over that like 19 year stretch won like 68% of their games, which is like, the best stretch and NFL history. The chiefs are at two-thirds of their games. I have so much faith that Andy Reid does know has a really good idea what he's doing

that I kind of look at this backward. I think that getting rid of Hill, my question isn't, my first reaction is why. Now that I have some time to marinate it, I'm like, okay, they must really believe that they can replace his impact

or change their offense to be something else. Can I give you a, you know how Bill always jokes with Sal about like what the greenie tease would be about this? Can I give you a... This is what the greenie Tees would be. This is like a bit Galaxy Brain. The teams would be coming up next. Why Brandon Staley is the reason Tyree Kill

is now in the Dolphins. I should actually just cut to the break right there. Maybe I'll have done that. But yeah, can we Galaxy Brain this into thinking that Brandon Staley's too high defense broke the Chiefs and now they don't need somebody to go deep so they just set them off? Brandon Staley's too high

defense got Russell fucking traded to the Broncos. Got Tyree Kill traded to the Dolphins. It completely changed the NFL. The 30 for 30. The Chiefs can't go deep. Why do we need Tyreek anymore? By the way, I want to say this before we move on.

I totally fucked up that idiom. It's a burdened hand is worth two in the bush. Just for all you ghosts out there that said, I think I said two in hand is worth more than one in the bush or something. Yeah, I mean, that also is worth more than the bush. We're a lot more than one of the bush. Oh, wait, no. You totally got that wrong.

Wow, that went by me twice without realizing. Oh, anyway, I want to talk about the Dolphins perspective in this real quick. I have a few thoughts. One, I mean, Tyree Kill and Jill and Waddle together is like a hypothetical scenario that's kind of crazy. Is it the fastest wide receiver duo ever? It's very fun. I will say that. It's pretty crazy.

Those two plus Mike Gisicki, you can get down the field in four seconds flat. And they got Cedric Wilson, right? Plus Raheem Mostert, who's like one of the fastest guys is in SEPBens. Yeah. I want to recap the Dolphins off season here. Bring some order to this court. Toronto Armstead. This is the latest thing.

Connor Williams. Oh, my. Are we just naming, I'm going to kill you guys. I'll keep going to murder you dead. Hunter Long. Well, I don't need a name it anymore. You guys, they paid a bunch of people

a bunch of money and traded a bunch of picks, blah, blah, blah, blah. Taddy Bridgewater. God damn. The startup. God damn. Okay.

So, yeah, all those names, obviously now it's like, okay, Tua better not suck. Like, there's no excuse to death. This is as make or break a year for Tua

as we're going to get. But do you, I guess, do you think this is going to work? I don't know. E.K. So, like, everyone wants to take that. Like, I'm kind of skeptical that, like, oh, the dolphins won the off season. Look, they just bought a new team.

How often does, do we say that in March? And then that, like, in January, you're like, wow, that huge spending spree went great. Work. Yeah. Define work. Yeah, I was going to say, that's a, that's a broad word right there. There's a lot of latitude where it can work in there. Yeah.

Dolphins make the playoffs. And Tua is clearly like they're like. a good quarterback. Maybe it's not elite, but like it's, even if his best season could, by his low standards, could be like a little weird,

but it's like Tua, we have confidence in Tua by January. What if I, what if I came back at you here this way? Here's how, here's how it is a successful move and a successful deal. Man,

I can't talk today. They'll find out what Tua is this year. That's like pretty much guaranteed because you've got, you know, you've got Hill, you've got all the weapons that they have in the offense already before they got Hill.

Obviously, if Waddle can turn into something somewhat resembling Hill, which I think you can, that would be amazing. They kept Kisiki. They upgraded their offensive line. They basically fixed that whole thing. They got more speed in this offense than any other probably team in the NFL. So you're going to have Tua with more protection, more speed, more just support around him. In theory, this offensive structure, which has done really well for quarterbacks in San Francisco

with like Nick Mullen and Jimmy G. These guys have all produced at very efficient numbers, even though there was big question marks around them coming into the seasons. And all that said, like if Tua still can't succeed, what they have done is answered that most important question in an NFL franchise, is this guy our quarterback. And if they don't, if that, if the answer is no, guess what? They have two first rounders in 2023 to go get one of these quarterbacks

that would actually be good and work in the system. And they still have that sports system. They still have the roster in place. So I think that's more the definition of will this work. I don't think, like, if you're looking too narrowly at what happens in 2022, I think that's probably the wrong way of looking at it because there's so many variables that could go wrong, injuries, all that stuff. But I think what it really does is helps you evaluate what you have a quarterback.

And that's just the most important question on a team in the NFL. out. So finding out what you got into, maybe halfway through the year, like Ben was joking about on Twitter, maybe they just go right to Teddy. Halfway. Like, maybe week three, they go to Teddy, week one. Thank you. Okay. Well, this is the chance for everyone here. Are you guys in on tour for the season or not? Because you can get in or off the train right now. Do you think Tua is good NFL quarterback who's been held back by shitty circumstances and not his good teammates? He's going to be Tua, like the guy we all thought would be amazing or no? I'm out on Tua.

I haven't seen enough to believe it. And also, like, I think he can get healthier back still from the hip, but he hasn't been the same player since the hip, which was a really traumatic injury, so it makes sense. I'm out. And I think what you'll see this year is proof of concept of McDaniel, because he'll be able to make some chicken salad out of that chicken, eh, at quarterback, using that speed, right, using that scheme and that nonsense.

Yeah. And I think you'll see continued issues along the offensive line and continue to issues a quarterback, which will, but because of the proof of concept of McDaniel and Waddle and Hill, it will emboldened the Dolphins to get even more aggressive next offseason. They still have two first round picks in the 2023 draft. They have theirs and San Francisco's. So you still are in a position where you have extra capital

to go trade for a quarterback if necessary. I think we see the Dolphins be a big quarterback players next year, make a couple of trades in the offensive line, go get themselves a playoff berth. I'm a little more bullish. I'm definitely, I would not say he's a guy that I'd be like, for instance, targeting in dynasty football or whatever. Like, I'm really bullish on him. I think he's going to explode.

However, I do think having a guy like Tyree Kill can make a big difference. Having an offensive line that's marginally better than last year, which, and it was atrocious last year, I think can help a ton for a quarterback. If you go back to Tyree Kill, and I saw the guys at Sharp Football stats talking about this, Tyree Kill was like he put up 1183 yards his second year in league with Alex Smith at quarterback like he can he can still change an offense for the good

he can elevate a quarterback and you know he has that skill set they also have Waddle which I think is another huge variable so again I don't I wouldn't say I'm super bullish but I am somewhat optimistic that he'll make a reasonable size jump this year look better look closer to the guy that we saw

Alabama who was launching bombs to all these really good fast receivers in addition to all the really quick processing stuff that they do like in the short area and in the short and intermediate area of those RPO's, he also was an extremely good deep passer. So maybe we'll see some of that kind of come out this year. Couldn't this end up being worst case scenario

where like you said with Alex Smith, Tua has a decent year because he has all of these weapons around him and then the dolphins don't know what to do and they're stuck between the rock and the hard place next year? And they're like, well, we now have Alex Smith and we're going to go nine and eight every year. Now what? And then they trade two first for Kyler Murray.

Yeah, then you're in where the 49ers are with Jimmy G. So that's great. I don't know. I'm dubious. Unless you define success as figuring out two is not the guy's also successful. I just feel like this isn't going to work. It just seems too easy. It's paid a bunch of money to fix their entire team.

I just feel like I don't know. You can't fix the relationship with fancy gifts. They just took a big shortcut. And generally speaking, I just feel like that doesn't work. Anyway. I want to spend also a hot second on. Solek dropped this note in that the teams without first round picks in this draft. So the Browns, the Seahawks, the Bears, the Dolphins, the Colts, the Raiders, the Niners,

don't have first round picks. That's seven teams, if I can count. Not a counting guy. It should be eight. Is it eight now? Yeah, 24 teams hold the 32 first round picks, which is. Oh, sorry, the dolphins. I said them.

I can't count. 7, 8, whatever it is. That's a quarter of the league. I don't have this off the top of my head, but it feels like if that isn't the most teams ever in one draft who'd not have a first round pick, it's certainly close. Probably is the record.

And so I'm wondering what you guys think about. I feel like first round picks are worth less, or maybe a simpler way to say that is, I feel like teams have radically different values on first round picks now, way more than ever before. and teams are literally using different charts with different ideology and combining that with teams being more aggressive

as they are in different life cycles of where they think they are in Super Bowl runs or what they got into the quarterback. I've never seen teams more willing to throw first rounders again. And I'm curious what you guys think as deep in the draft dungeons, what you think of that. Just the concept of first rounders

being worth less than they used to be. I think that teams are still using, from over the last whatever 10 years 12 years I would say that teams are still pretty sticking closely to the draft charts that are around there there's a few different ones but like for the most part you can look at those charts

and teams will stick to it for the most part where it comes where it comes hard and where it's become so different I think lately is teams like the Rams for instance are trading first round picks for players and it's hard to put a chart value on a player you know what I mean like obviously in the past

you'd be like give me a first round pick I want in return a first rounder and a second rounder and a third rounder and a seventh rounder. And that gives us the exact lineup of what we're, you know, what this draft chart says. Like, how do you put a draft chart value on Tyree Kill? You know what I mean? So I think that's where the NFL has evolved. It's much, teams are just much more willing to flot these first rounders for ready to go players, I guess.

I don't know. You know, again, going back to my complete botching of the idiom two in hand versus one in the bush. What is it? A bird in hand is worth two in the bush. Yes. Got it. I think it's just, it is that. I think the overall just teams being so scared of trading those first round picks

because before it used to be, you know, you just never, you know, you don't give those up. Or at least during when I was coming up in like the early 2010s, it felt like, you know, that was just not something teams were willing to do for the most part. Now it's like way more willy-nilly. There's just been more trades than ever. It feels like this offseason. I'm so tired because every day

it's like this new giant blockbuster and we've got to figure everything out. So I do think the NFL's changing. I don't know and I kind of would it'd be interesting to look in deeper, but I don't think teams are going off to charts as much as you might say though. I think it's probably still pretty close.

For me, yeah, I think whether or not the trade charts are being used and which ones are the consistence are and like the previous ones and that one, like to me like teams using their own charts, that like is always going to be. thing. What to me I think is more interesting is

I think teams have become more cognizant of the value of a first round pick relative to their stage of team building, right? Are you more likely to hit on a star player in the first round? Absolutely. 100%. But really, if we're talking about an impact guy in year one, top 10, top 15 is where you're

expecting to get that guy. And if you get him afterwards, that feels great. But if you're going to win a Super Bowl, you should not be getting star play. Getting the star play from that guy should not be a conditional part of your plan. And we can see that in the 2021 Bengals. Nobody had them as a Super Bowl team.

And then they drafted Jamar Chase. Chase was a star receiver for them. All of a sudden, they made it in the Super Bowl. And we weren't thinking to ourselves, like, when they selected Chase, this might be the final piece of a Super Bowl team here.

Because that's just like, they're, personally, they're picking at five. And secondly, like, we don't, a rookie doesn't usually push a near contending team over the top. Rather, it's a contending team has the stars, and we're just trying to fill some gaps with some rookies, fill some gaps with some cheap young guys.

And when that's what we're trying to get out of our draft picks, we don't really need a first-round pick. We can do that in round two. We can do that in round three. We can do that in round four if we're lucky, right? And that's what you see more so the Rams. The other side of the Bengals, who is one of their best defensive players

for that Super Bowl was Ernest Jones, who was a third-round linebacker pick out of South Carolina State, out of some non-FBS school, some, you know, small school I don't remember, who really like wasn't that great during the year. And they traded away Kenny Young with the thought that they could just get him more playing time. And eventually he'd be good enough to just scrape by. And guess what he was by Super Bowl time? Good enough to make a couple of plays and scrape by, baby.

That's all they really needed at linebacker because they had Donald and Vaughn and Jalen Ramsey and so on and so forth. And so I think when you look at teams that view themselves as pushing the envelope into the playoffs, and you see certainly some teams there on that list with no first round picks, it's understandable. There are some other teams who don't belong on that list, who maybe think they do, and that's a problem. But, you know, teams always mistake kind of their stage of team building. So I think a lot of it is about stage of team building.

Ernest Jones went to South Carolina, by the way. Just regular South Carolina? Yeah, just the South Carolina gamecocks. Wow. All right, that's on me. But I just keep coming back to Les Need, the Rams GM wearing a shirt at the Super Bowl parade that said, F them picks.

It's like the Michael Jordan Bean of like F them kids, but it was like F them picks. And I just keep coming back to that. I just think it's really interesting that, really that there's so much daylight between what different teams think about what these things are worth. And he said, you know,

one hand in the bird or whatever the hell is, I don't know what Dickie was trying to say. But yeah, just don't count you. You understand what I'm kidding. Don't count your birds until they hatch. There are an indeterminate number of birds and hands and bushes during this podcast. They're everywhere at all times, different locations. Don't count your birds in your hatch.

That's what they say. In your hand. Get this. That's what they say. Otherwise, I also want to ask you guys about Malik Willis's pro day. Yeah. Young man can sling the rock, Daniel. Young man could throw the pill around the yard a little bit, all right?

We love to see it. Can you give me, can you guys give me the spark notes? Did he just throw it really far and everybody was impressed or no? Young man was hucking and chucking it, all right? Young man put some mustard on it. Okay, he could put mustard on it, but did he put mustard on it? So it landed in the right spot? Yes.

Yeah. Didn't we know that though? Yeah, this is like, don't do learn. This is a don't double count it situation. This is a quarterback's pro day, all right? He's going to attempt a scripted throw that pushes the ball 60 yards down the field that he's practiced like 85 times. we're all going to lose her mind.

And then we're going to find a right of passage every year. A clip of an elite quarterback doing it in the NFL and it looks like kind of similar but it's actually not really similar. We're like, oh, see, this is how it would look and whatever. I think I figured out what pro days are. Vive checks. You know what pro days are?

Pro days are when you know there's nothing in your fridge but you open it anyways if something magically will be in there. It's like, oh, it's exactly how I left. It's like, oh, I have all of the tape of every game, Alec Willis is ever played. I have food in the fridge. And then you go to the pro day and their combine and you're like, I open it.

I'm like, oh, looks the same as it was. And you close it. Go back to the pro day. Let me convince myself that the food in the fridge is somehow better than it used to be before, despite it being the same food. I will say something that we did learn about Malik Willis. I was a cut of his jib. Jim, Jim, yes. Well cut, baby. All right? He threw that deep pass. And then he ran down the field. He did a little hip-up with his receiver, big leadership boy. big good, good vibes. Even if it is who he is, it's such performance art.

Here's the, all right, listen here, Craig. Could you see Mac Jones doing that shit? Yeah. And listen, for as much performance good, so what does it matter? For as much performance art as it may be, Craig, your head coach was on that sideline,

big smile on his face. Loving the Malik Willis show. I'm completely pivoting. I don't want any of the picture. I don't want any of the quarterbacks in this draft. Craig, there's a picture from Malik Willis's pro day where Malik Willis is like smiling, like a million dollar smile.

And in the background, he can see Mike Tomlin. Mike Tomlin just look at, he's like peering over a crowd. Like, kind of like, oh, okay. Yeah, I see what's going on. All right. So like, you want to give us two jargons in a lie. So it gives us three draft jargons every week. And we have to figure out the fake one because one of them is a lie.

All right. I've been, I've been given cheesy ones. So I've got three as jargony as jargon gets. Just the football playing Jesse's jargon. Yeah. And we're going to get. Gabe Craig what he's been asking for. So, we have sifts through the trash,

smells blood in the water, looks like Tarzan plays like Jane. Oh, those are so good, Ben. Sifts through the trash, smells blood in the water, looks like Tarzan plays like Jane. This is why we invented the game. Yes.

Back to our roots. This is the ideal three. No more strategy. Ben, if you, let me just get this out of the right now. Ben, if you came up with the looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane, if that's the lie, hats off to you. Well done. That's a really good one.

So I'm guessing Craig's not guessing that one. I don't know. I don't know. Just getting it out there. That's a great phrase. Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane, sifts through the trash and smells blood in the water. This is fun.

Do you know it? Do you know these terms or no? I know one of them is real for a fact, and I don't want to tell you which. but I'm curious if you, which ones do you, what would you think those things mean? Sifts through the trash is like, never stops fighting till he gets what he wants.

It would be my guess or something. You know, he's got like a motor. And then looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. It's like, you know, he looks like a physical freak, but he's actually kind of soft. And then blood in the water,

I don't know, knows how to find a whole, like knows how to exploit the defense or something. I'm going to say blood in the water is fake. I'm also going to say blood of the water I know for a fact that it looks like Tarzan plays like Jane is real. I also think sifts through the trash

is probably way of saying like a defender who's able to break through the muck of the line to like make a tackle and like just find the ball carrier it seems like a very linebacker trait so I'm going to say blood of the water is fake as well.

Seems like a very linebacker trait. It is a very linebacker trait. Smells blood of the water is fake. Yes. That was a good one then. That was good. That was fun. So source through the trash

is exactly what high. said. When you have a linebacker who whether with strength or with speed or flexibility or whatever has that ability to get to where the ball carrier is to slip by that offensive lineman and get to the football, he can sit through the trash, right? A lot of junk, a lot of garbage. I love that

term, by the way. I use it all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane is exactly what you think, right? Guys, first, you know, first you'd off the bus, body beautiful, right? It's stuff we've talked about before. It looks great. And then he just does not play with the physicality and strength and speed that you would expect.

of a guy of that frame. So all the time, right, you think about your scout, you got your dip in, you got your hands inside your windbreaker pockets, you're at the Oklahoma Pro Day, March 28th, and young scout comes up and he goes, man, that, you know, that Kenneth Murray, right, lineback from a couple

years ago, oh man, he looks great doesn't. He just great build, and you spit out your dip, you go, looks like Tarzan plays like Jane, man. That's for that, that's where that frame, that phrase comes in. He just isn't what he's built as when you're looking at him. And basketball, that would be like the layup line guy where when you're looking at him in the lay-up line across the court,

you're like, good God, this guy's enormous. He's like dunking and you're terrified. And then the second the game starts, he just can't do anything. It's the big man who doesn't rebound. Yeah. There you go. What did you picture blood in the water? Or, sorry, what was it?

Yeah, smells blood in the water? What was your fake explanation for that? Yeah, yeah. Honestly, no, that would just sounded good. I was just thinking, yeah. That's like the cut of your, that's like the cut of your jib. He smells blood in the water. He's fierce.

He's a sharp. It sounds good. I just figured, yeah, any scout who likes the way guy hits would be like, yeah, he can spell blood of the water. I could see someone actually saying that for sure. Sam Monson at Pro Football Focus had someone said to him this morning as some scout. I don't know where it came up, but I saw this from him and he basically, someone referred to, I think, who's the other, I can't keep track of the Georgia Defenders. The one is going to go top 10, actually ahead of Tebow-Doh. Trayvon Walker.

Yeah. Trayvon Walker was described as having admirable blood thunders. thirst. Yeah. Which I thought was the funniest. That's what we need. We need a new wave of jargon creators in the scouting community, man. It's been protected for too long.

I get some young guys in there. And they're just like, yo, Trayville Walker, just admirable bloodthirsts, man. Ben, that's you, my man. Corner that month. We need a list of the good jargon. We need a list of the good jargons we're going to keep and then have replacements for the bad jargons we're going to get rid of. So like cerebral, just going to call him smart.

That's a word. In a phone booth, got to update that one. But we're going to keep. Oh, no. I love. phone booth. Phone booth is good. I just, the phone booth. There are no phone boost anymore.

Eventually, when you're old, so lacking like 50 years, you're going to have to actually explain what that is eventually. Yeah, I know. That's the thing is we got to teach the, we got to teach the use about phone booths, and we're going to do it through the NFL draft. Okay. Anyway, all right, we're going to also go through two jargues and a lot. You can email us your own two

jargues and a lie at ringer fantasy football, gmail.com. Thank you to everyone who sent them. We've gotten a lot. So send them from your own work or whatever the hell you do two jargas and a lie okay we got one here from ben ben hey great name brother ben's been a bowler his whole life bowling ben is what they call him's been a bowler that's like a warm-up thing ben's been a bowler the human torch was denied a bank loan oh yeah here's a little thing for everyone who before we start recording we always do the anchorman line of ron bergen he's like

human torch was denied a bank loan scotchy scotch scotch no one no one laughed at that I wanted you to keep going. Also, the scotch one. I love scotch. Isn't that where he just chugs the scotch? Even though it's like, they're counting him down like 3 to 1. He's like, oh, God. He's like chugs the scotch.

It's like sneaking in it. Here it goes down in my belly. All right. Boys. There's your little insight. Big Ben goes bowling. Big Ben brashly bowls. But that's always what happens.

Right before I'm like, welcome. It's always just like, human torch, denied a bank club. Okay. Anyway, Ben's got an email here. Two Truths and Alive for bowling. Number one, gutter butter, Love Tap, or Hammone?

Love Tap's got to be like, you knock a pin over and that pin like barely kisses. Yeah, the seven, that falls. Gutter butter. Hambone, to me, sounds like leaving one pin up, right? That's what I envision that, that single pin standing being the handbook. Oh, that's money.

And maybe he like prayed on our naivity when he's like, oh, they're going to think the gutter one's real because the word gutter is in it. But maybe that's actually fake. Yeah, because gutter butter sounds disgusting. But also, like, you can't, like, put, like, you can't put something like a lubricant on the ball, right? So there'd be no... But unless that's a description for some guy who can't stay out of the butter, they say, like,

or can't stay out of the gutter? He can't stay out of the butter. His ball's got gutter butter on it or something? The kid can't stay out of the butter. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's it. That's the rule. We've figured out that if we can figure out what it would mean, it's fake.

Haven't we figured this out by now? So if you came up with a devil. definition, that's the one that's a lie. Well, we just came up with the definition for all three of them. Yeah, what are you talking about? Well, never mind. That I don't know. My guess is gutter butter.

Yeah, I'm going with ham bone is incorrect. All right. I'm going to look. No, no one would think of handbone as a potential bowling. Look, Craig is very upset about your guest, yeah. Craig, what's your pick then? Gutter butter or love tap? Love tap.

You think love type is fake? Gutter butter is the lie. Oh! Why did I switch last second? Why did I switch? So just a reminder, everyone. Great job. I got to go with my gut.

Email us your own two jargs and lie at ringer fantasy football at gmail.com. Put the answers in white text so I don't see it when I open it. And then you can highlight it or I can highlight it. And then I can see the answer so I can still play. Okay. I think that's all we got. So did they tell us what gutter butter was? Oh, do you want to know what they mean?

What's handbone? Oh my God. He says, fun fact, CJ Anderson's a pretty good bowler and I bowled against him in a tournament in Denver. That is insane. Good callback. Does that mention if he beat C.J. Anderson, so I feel like obviously he did not, right? Like, you totally would mention that.

A handbone is four strikes in a row. Oh. Wow. So it's like one more than a turkey. That's right. He says handbone derived from back when winners of a competition would get foodstuffs as a prize. Oh, my gosh. Oh, yeah. And it says here rolling, rolling five in a row is a brat.

They're just listing tasty things, man. They're just like, yo, some guy hit five strikes in a row, and they're like, dude, what is your favorite? Ben, here's why. It's because five sausages come in a packet. So if you get five strikes in a row, it's about. That's great, actually. Don't know about the hand bone, though.

I like the fire. Also, love tap is like when you love tap the last pin to get a strike or a pin to finish the strike. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. I love the gutter butter. Wait, what was the sausage for the five? Not sausage. Five, it's broad.

The five sausages come in a packet, that's fine. I kind of love that. Did you guys ever see that, what's that guy's name? Robert Putnam, the Harvard researcher, about how the decline of bowling leagues was the sign of the decline of the social fabric in America. You ever see that one? No, I missed that. It was called, what was it called?

Bowling, not bowling for soup, that's the other, that's a band. Bowling. Do you guys think the only relevant thing to happen in bowling in your probably lifetime is that one dude yelling, who do you think you are? I am. That and also the best thing. Big Lobowski. Yeah,

a bowling alone. It's called bowling alone. It's like it's incredible book. That's the Bigelboski and Kingpin. I've never seen Kingpin. Oh my God. It's the best movie of all the time. I think if you can list three things,

those three things are no longer officially the only thing significant that's happened in bowling in your lifetime. Oh, and the other only significant thing was. So like, have you seen? I am. So like, have you seen the Big Lebowski? I declined to answer that on a radio pod.

Bill Simmons is not either. Yeah. You're fine. Oh, really? Yeah. It's the one movie he wrote like. I have not seen that. The other 98 movies that get talked about regularly, I also haven't seen.

But the Big Lebowski. Bill claims he is deliberately not watching it. Oh, that's not. He's even three years ago. He was like, I just don't do it because it annoys people. He's not a big Cohen brothers guy. Yeah, I get that. Old Brother or Art thou, though.

Just a killer movie. Seriously, great one. Okay. Good sing the song, Craig. Well, which one? Oh, I am a man of Cohen. of constant sorrow. I've never seen that, but that movie was always on TBS,

and I remember they would do the commercials to get people to watch that movie. And I remember just, they always used the same click of George Clooney being like, you do are dumber than a bag of hammers. And like, I used to say that a lot, but I'd never seen the movie. It's a good movie. I recommend it. I took Calvin bowling for the first time. He sucks.

He sucks at bowling. But his favorite part was watching the ball come up. You know how, like, you know, comes down. That's pretty magical. He thought that was shit. The point was that the point of the book that Robert Putnam wrote was that since 1980 bowling leagues declined by 40%. And his question was why.

And his answer to really boil down this guy's giant book and lifetime research was like the social fabric of like community in America was dying of like the suburbian. Like as people were moving and stuff, people were not interacting with their neighbors and community more. And it led to declining social morals. And he wrote that like 20 years ago. So, you know, that seems to have happened. Well, that's what fantasy football leagues are here for.

God damn right, Craig. All right. Thank you, Craig. Thank you, Solek. Thank you, D.K. Thank you, Robert Putnam. Great stuff. Thank you to the Big Lobowski and also the other Lobowski.

Thank you, C.J. Anderson for tearing up the lanes. Yes. Thank you to everyone who emailed us. E-Mails for your fantasy football at gmail.com. Thank you to Ben for the email. Thank you, Lord. Lauren. Lord.

Thank you, bad company. Who? Bad company. Oh, bad company. I said Ben Company. And I was like, a lot of Ben themes over here. How did you not say bowling for soup?

Oh, yeah. D.K., I feel like you'd like bowling for soup. Okay. Thank you. Do you know them? No, not really. Well, I don't know, 1985? Fun fact, I was just at a wedding,

did a karaoke for the first time of my life, and the first song I sang was 1985. Oh, that's a good one for karaoke. Can you sing it for me? The best karaoke if I say ever got was the song is for them, not you. What does it sound like? Bruce Springsteen, Madonna,

way before Nirvana, there was you two and blondie, her music still on MTV. You know that song? She's still pre-occupied. Bad company is good though. With 1985. I have no pipes.

I have tone deaf. You know what's a great song for tone-deaf people that always brings down the house? Karaoke. Barry White. Photographed by Nickelback. Look at his photograph

Photogram It makes the laugh People fucking lose their shit If you do photograph A karaoke It is good It'll ruin your throat But it's good

Okay Goodbye everyone