The Ringer NFL Show - Deep Sleepers

Episode Date: July 30, 2021

We run through our favorite late-round sleepers of the 2021 season. WR Rondale Moore, Cardinals (2:29) WR Darnell Mooney, Bears (9:05) RB Devontae Booker, Giants (12:36) RB Darrynton Evans, Titans (15:03) RB Giovani Bernard, Bucs (18:08) WR Randall Cobb, Packers (25:21) WR Mecole Hardman, Chiefs (28:48) WR Elijah Moore, Jets (32:51) QB Zach Wilson, Jets (35:34) WR Gabriel Davis, Bills (42:28) WR Marquez Callaway, Saints (47:33) RB J.D. McKissic, Washington (50:43) RB Jamaal Williams, Lions (52:09) TE Zach Ertz, Eagles (52:42) RB Rashaad Penny, Seahawks (54:22) Check out The Ringer's 2021 Fantasy Football Draft Guide here. Email us at [e-mail]. Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ringer Films is premiering its first of six films in our music box series, Woodstock 99, Peace, Love, and Rage on Friday, July 23rd on HBO. Woodstock 99 tells the story of the infamous music festival promoting unity and counterculture, but devolved into chaos and collapsed under the weight of its own ambition. Watch or stream Woodstock 99, peace, love, and rage on HBO or HBO Max now. Welcome to the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. My name is Danny Hyfitz, and I'm joined today by Danny Kelly and Craig Quirlebeck. Quick reminder, we have our rankings up at fantasy football.thorremer.com.

It is our draft guide for the season. We have literally hundreds of player profiles up there, upsides, downsides, bottom lines, everything. Please check it out at fantasyfutball.thringer.com. Today, we are doing deep sleepers. And I'm very curious. Deep sleepers. Our definition of deep sleepers.

It's kind of like inception. There's levels to it, right, Craig? Absolutely. Are you within one dream? Are you within a dream? Or are you Leo at the end? where you don't even know if you're in a dream or not in real life. Or it's like, in some sleepers, it's like limbo where this isn't going to work out well,

but you know what, it's kind of fun to just be there. I don't know. Yeah, you become that old guy at the end of Inception, who's just an old man filled with regret. Maybe that'll be us. What are we talking about? Inception, the movie, you know what? What does that have to do with sleepers? Because you're sleeping.

Inception. The whole movie is about sleeping, DK. Different levels of sleep? No, that was. The dreams, different. If you get into deeper sleep... Just different dream levels. Well, you have to put them in deeper sedation

in order to go deeper within their dreams. I'm not going to lie. I haven't seen Inception for a long time, so I don't really know what you're talking about. But I'm sure it's a very good reference. The guy from picky blinders, they knocked him out, went into his dreams, made his dad love him again.

That's the movie. Okay. That actually is that's not about summation. Fair enough. The whole point is we're trying to plant ideas in people's minds today. That's really what we're going for. We're going to make you think of your idea.

Incepting people. We're incepting your asses right now. All right, well, let's just freaking get into it. DK, we're going to intercept you first. Oh, cool. Give us a deep sleeper for this year. And then also, we don't know who each other picked. I actually have no idea who you're better to be.

Yeah, these are all going to be surprises. I'm going to start out with, and again, this is maybe my least deep of a sleeper, but Rondale Moore from the Cardinals. You bitch? I had Rondale Moore. Okay, well, we both like this guy. right now, according to expert consensus rankings, he is the wide receiver's 74 and a half PPR, 191st overall. We've got him ranked quite a bit higher.

We've got him ranked 140. And I had him ranked like 25 spots higher than both of you fools. So I figured this was a good one. Basically, let's start out with just the Cardinals' offense. 156 targets vacated from the Cardinals' offense from last year. And the competition, I'd say, that Rondell Moore is facing in this offense is, pretty light, especially or relative for a rookie receiver.

So he's got AJ Green, who we saw just how bad he was last year. I think AJ Green's going to be playing on the outside as well. Christian Kirk, who has been sort of very up and down throughout his whole career. He's flashed at times, but just hasn't put it all together. Andy Isabella,

he might not even make the team. Altogether, the point is he has, like I think Rondo Moore, second round pick has a very strong chance of starting early on in the slot for them. He is a guy I really like coming into this draft. He was my 40th overall ranked, ranked player. Very, very explosive.

He's like basically Saquan Barkley explosiveness. Like, why? Like, he's, you know, tested out of the gym, like 40-something inch vert, sub 4-440, like extremely, extremely explosive. Maybe you're the best athlete pound for pound in the draft. Do you think he can do that thing where you stand inside the pool and then you jump and you land outside the pool? I mean.

He's fun. Five, eight, but otherwise probably, yes. He's five seven, I think. So no. Okay, I'm going to write that down. But he has 96 percentile bursts. And that's not like among players. That's among wide receivers.

His agility scores, the burst scores are 96 percentile athlete. But he was also productive. Like, he had 18, sorry, he had 1,300 yards. It's a true freshman in the Big Ten. Like, he was 18 years old. Like, that doesn't happen. And traditionally, like, the younger you are when you're that dominant in college, like, the better odds you have of NFL success.

So, like, I mean, that kind of athlete, that kind of production and in the Cardinals where first of all, even if he can't beat AJ Green and them on the depth chart, the Cardinals run

so many four receiver sets he's going to play. But he probably will beat those guys in the depth charts. So I really agree with you, D.K., because if you believe at all in Cliff Kingsbury,

Kyler, really Kyler, being a better passer this year, well, who the hell do they have after DeAndre Hopkins? Rondel Moore could be the number

two receiver in this offense. And so it's a high upside player who's produced who has a huge opportunity. So I was reading up on the Cardinals' offense yesterday, and a few things really stuck out to me, and I was reading the football outsiders Almanac, which is a great resource, by the way. The Cardinals ranked second in the NFL behind only the Packers last year and screen passes, per the FOA, which is perfect for a guy like Moore who 40% of his college catches around there came behind the line of scrimmage.

He is a yak machine, get the ball to him, let him turn into a running back in space. He's explosive. He's quick. he's shifty all that stuff for the Cardinals also the quick and short passing game was a huge part of their offense for a team like the air raid it's a little bit of a misnomer because you picture just like vertical passing all day long

but they did a lot of horizontal passing short passing get the ball out quickly I think he's got a chance to not only dominate and sort of be like I don't know you know version of Debo Samuel where you're getting him the ball quickly you're manufacturing him touches just getting him the ball and letting him do stuff,

I think he has a good chance to be like the guy for them in that part of the game. But also he, you know, he did go deep in college. He did, like, he runs like a mean slot fade.

So like he'll start out in the slot and then just like, faded out towards the corner and he's really dangerous in that way. Again, top end speed. And like you said, Hyphids,

if we can predict and project this Cardinals' offense to take a jump in some efficiency, possibly even scoring this year, year. Maybe Kyler has a big third year jump under Cliff Kingsbury. Like just the opportunity that he's walking into could be massive. The Cardinals prior to Kyler Hurl, prior to Kyler Murray getting hurt last year, I think it was week 11 or so. So from week one through week 11, Cardinals were scoring 28 points a game and averaging 414 yards per game. So this is a high octane offense in theory. I think

that it could be a lot better than it even has been. They run a lot of plays. They go really fast. high tempo, all that stuff. And I think more is just the guy that they envision, you know, sort of complimenting everything that Dandre Hopkins does, taking some pressure off of Hopkins, you know, getting him the ball, just letting him do his thing.

So I'm really excited about what he can do. And, you know, we've got him ranked way higher than the consensus. And I'm almost feeling like maybe we should have him a little bit higher based on just, like, looking into it yesterday. He's the exact kind of guy you want in the last spot in your bench.

He's extremely athletic. He's produced in college and he might have a huge opportunity to rise in like a weird receiving core. So I think that's exactly the kind of upside you want late. He's not having as much hype as some of these other guys because he has been injured more or less for the past two seasons for a large part of the past two seasons. So that I think is definitely stifling his hype and it is a concern. But yeah, like Hyvitt's mentioned, he was just an All-American as a freshman, like an 18-year-old freshman. This guy's talented. it. Yeah, I mean, I think you're

from, wasn't it Nate Robinson? It's five, yeah, that he can freaking dunk when he was sophomore in high school? It's pretty unbelievable. So he can't outbox Jake Paul is what you're saying. Damn it. Don't even, how dare you? Okay, we love Rondale Moore from the Cardinals. Craig, who's a deep sleeper for you? Yeah, that's a good one, guys.

That Rondamor is Rondel Moore's a sleeper? Wait, what level of inception is Rondale Moore as a sleeper? I think that considering he's so, is that like a dream within a dream or is he a dream within a dream? No, he's just dream within a dream. They're not at that like snow compound. That's not how deep this one was, but it's the one before that.

I think you're, yeah, in the hotel. Right. By the way, there is a... It starts raining. There's a thing on YouTube that it's like 10 straight hours of the Inception Horn. Craig, maybe you can drop in

like a little clip of the Inception Horn so people know what I'm talking about. But if you want 10 straight hours of this, just Google it on YouTube. Hopefully, uh, Hans Zimmer doesn't sue me. Okay, so next up, I'm doing Darnell Mooney on the Bears wide receiver. Ooh, I like this.

Mooney was a rookie last year. He was drafted in the fifth round, like nothing special. But he kind of almost immediately became the number two guy in Chicago. He played 73% of their snaps. I mean, Trubisky and Foles were terrible, so it was kind of hard to really know how good Mooney was. He got open a lot. You know, listen, I'm not going back and watching the all 22s.

But the tape junkies tell me that he got open a lot and was not given the ball. I mean, he still had 60 yards. I mean, 60 catches last year. Over 600 yards. He had four touchdowns. And the only other guy last year that was really competing with him, specifically, other than Alan Robinson,

was Anthony Miller, who the Bears just traded to the Texans. And other than that, they have Marquis Goodwin and Demir Bird and Cole Comette. I know Tarete Cohen. I mean, there's not a ton of exciting options other than Darnal Mooney.

And pretty strong rookie season. He was consistent. He was one of only two rookie wide receivers to have at least two catches in every game he played. Justin Jefferson was the other guy. And Mooney's a big downfield guy. I know that Andy Dalton's not exactly tearing the cover off the ball

and launching it downfield, but I almost can see Mooney kind of acting, kind of having two different seasons, you know, when it's Andy Dalton, I can see him just being your typical, you know, underneath guy, quick, short routes, you know, doing what Andy Dalton can do. And then if Fields comes in, Fields is a great deep ball thrower

and could really, I don't know, kind of explode with Darnell Mooney. He's going, we have him ranked 131st in our rankings. I think he's a great upside pick. The Bears apparently love that. guy. Everything that I've been hearing and reading about Darnow Mooney is the Bears think this guy is like a future star. He's another, he's one of those players. I think that his hype has been stifled to by the fact that he was a small school guy. I believe he went to Tulane and like a mid-round pick. And he's really small. Like this is the Devante Smith conversation all over again. He's like 170-something pounds. So I think there's still people that are a little bit, you know, I don't know, just doubting his overall upside and his overall potential, even though he did show a lot as a rookie. So I think he's the type of guy who could really just, like, solidify himself as a future star this year.

He's 5-11, 174 pounds. So that's definitely sort of a concern. I think it's holding, like maybe it's just painting the narrative that he's just a one-trick pony deep threat guy. And Craig, to your point, he was wide open downfield so many times. and Trubisky just flat out missed him. It was insanely frustrating. But he was also used around the line of scrimmage a lot on like basically everything I was just saying with Rondell Moore.

Like they used him as that guy that can, you know, just get him the ball quickly and let him do work. Really quick, really shifty kind of guy. So I like his potential a lot. I think that quarterback points really important. I mean, Tribuskin Falls were pretty freaking bad. And even any Dalton's an upgrade from them in my opinion. So it's like that's a good way to find someone who, as you said, said the hype's been stifled, just better quarterbacking is, sometimes it's not rocket science.

I like that a lot. I think, what level, what level sleeper is that? Well, we've got them ranked a little higher than Rondale. So, I think it's a level one. We have nine spots higher than Rondale. Is that right? Yeah, I said a little. I said a little.

Okay. I'm fine, level one. That's fine. That's fine. That's fine. I can tell you're over it. All right, well, D.K. Snipe me on Rondale Moore, so I guess I got to go someone else.

Oh. I'm just going to get out of the way because I don't want to be a, I feel like I'm a broken record talking about Sequin, but I'm just going to throw a Devante Booker for the Giants, and I hope this is the pin in the Seekwon conversation for a few weeks. But basically, look, we don't know if Sequin's going to play in week one.

It's a downer, but it's true. And if he doesn't, then Devante Booker is probably going to be the starting running back for the New York Giants. If Sequin's not ready in week one, you can get a starting running back, like pretty late in drafts. And if Seekone is ready,

Devante might be a rotational guy early on, this is kind of like the opposite of a normal handcuff situation. Usually it's like you draft Tony Pollard from the Cowboys. And you're like, well, if Zika Elliott gets hurt, Tony Pollard will be a top 10 guy. This is the opposite because you'll just know early on if Devante Booker's like going to play. Like even Sequin's ready or he's not. So there's not that whole like, do I hold on to him indefinitely or like, you know what I mean?

Like no of that. You just might have a guy that you could play in the first two or three weeks of the season. and then if Seqqwon comes back, you can get rid of him. So it's, you know, it's not like some cool thing where Devante Booker will be this top running back

for you all season. You just might have a really flex option in the first few weeks of the season. Basically, he's going undrafted. Now, obviously that'll probably change if Sequin status goes. But you know what? And also, obviously, it sucks to think about,

but you also probably want some insurance if Seekwon has some stuff that lingers throughout the season. But, you know, keep an eye on Seekwon, keep an eye on Booker and see how this develops. But, like, it's kind of nice to have

the handcuff situation, without having to hold on to someone for the whole season. Yeah, he's like a waiver wire ad that you make before the season starts. Exactly. It's like how often you just cut the last guy you draft on your bench anyway for a waiver ad? Devante Booker is the number one waiver ad you'd want in week one anyway. I'm just having a hard time remembering, I'm having a hard time remembering any specific play that he's made in the NFL.

I know that he's like been around and he's like a veteran. Yeah, I don't think Hyvitz is saying that he's like exceptional by any means. No, I'm not. That brought me no joy to give it. I'm not saying, yeah, not saying that your point is wrong, I fits. I'm just like, I think this is something that people run in, that we run into every year. It's like I was not excited about Wayne Galman last year, but he was fine. He was good, you know?

He came in and was a valuable fantasy piece, but before the year, I'm like, Wayne Galman, like, I have no memories of Wayne Galman. Like, I don't remember I'll run by Wayne Galman before last year. Wait, I'm not. Can I throw out one more handcuff? Yeah. So the handcuffs kind of end up being drafted a little higher. There's Tony Pollard for the Cowboys.

There's Alexander Madison for the Vikings. Those are like the top handcuffs, Latavius Murray for the Saints of Alvin Camara. There's one that's just not getting talked about. It's Darrington Evans for the Titans. Ooh, I love this one. He's probably the number two for the Tennessee. And it's not that you have to handcuff Derek Kennedy. But if there's a Mike Davis for this season, last year, Christian McCaffrey got hurt.

He's the unanimous number one pick. No one drafted Mike Davis. not ever like like some people i think even including me thought reggie bonafon might be the guy instead of mike davis mike davis gets the job and it's like a top running back for all the weeks mcalfrey's out if there anything happens to derrick henry darrington evans is the guy he's not even in the handcuffed tier he's like 30 spots after all these other handcuffs but he's just as good might be even more valuable so i'm just throwing it out there if you're willing to take tony pollard with like the 120th pick you should be willing to take darenton evans at any point in your

draft i just want to throw that out there I think he's good too. Like he was a good college runner. He's explosive. One cut, just lightning down the field. He tested really well. He was productive his final season there, Appalachian State, or I think that's where he went. He was a small school guy and a third rounder, I believe.

But he was pretty exciting to watch. So obviously he's stuck behind Henry. But I think there's already talk that they want to use him more. You know, we'll see if that actually happens. That seems to be the talk every offseason, like guys behind Henry. But yeah, it's going to be very very. very interesting to see if that happens. That's a smart pick too because somebody like Alexander Madison, like how much higher is Alexander Madison than Derrington Evans on like a typical fantasy

pros consensus ranking? So I'm looking at Best Bowl ADP right now, which is better than ADP, regular ADP at this point. And like Madison's going 139 and Daranted Evans is going all the way at 200 on the dot. Okay, perfect. So like, 60, 70 spots later. And you're getting the same value out of both players, but when you take Alexander Madison, then you can't take somebody like Darnell Mooney, who would have gone in that range. So it's like, exactly. You get the same value by taking Darren Ted Evans. He's going to provide you the same amount of, you'd think, like, scoring if Derek Henry or Dalvin Cook goes down. So might as well just take the latest good handcuff you can get. He's still in maybe that tier one of handcuffs. Yeah, at the end of the

day, all these are darts, and you just want to throw seven of them and you hope you hit two or three, and that's how you can win a freaking title. And take the later darts. If you can get like, you know, other good players early on. All right, D.K. Another deep sleeper for us. Do I get a snow level for that one? Is he, is Darrington Evans,

like, is he the snow fort? I'm going to say no, because it's not exactly revolutionary to suggest that you should just take the backup to like a studs running back. So I'm going to go out.

No, but he's going 200th. Oh, fine. Whatever. But you know what I mean? It's like, oh, just the guy behind.

He might be on to something here, guys. Yeah, you telling us our hand-cuffing. Just look at us. Like, we just, stole his puppy or something.

It's a good... I just wanted the snow sniper. It's a good pig. All right. The guy that I'm going to talk about next, I went into this process, like being like, oh yeah,

this could make some sense. And now I'm like 100% all in on this because I did the research. And I'm like, holy shit. I did my own research, guys. And I found...

That's rare these days. Cole Beasley's been in on that grind too. So it's more than just sitting on my toilet and scrolling through Twitter. Giovanni Bernard from the Buccaneers Oh my God! Might be the most under...

We're out the same wavelength. He might be the most underrated pick right now in fantasy football. So, let's just start off with, you know, quads. I don't know if any of you guys have seen the pictures of Giovanni

Bergenard's quads from his off season. He's got some big quads. Dude, I feel like Seqwan set off this whole quad thing. I got these few. They're fucking professional running backs. All of them have impressive quads. Like, all of them.

them. They're not like your quads. They're very, yeah, they're impressive quads. So that's always a plus. Bernard, quietly, since 2013, is third in the NFL in receptions at the running back position behind only Levion Bell and James White. I didn't realize that.

So he's a very accomplished past catching back. Obviously, some of that has to do with tenure and all that, but still, he's got the experience. The Buccaneers, one of the past Saviatives teams in football last year, according to the football outsiders Almanac, they were 29 in rush attempts.

Well, that's a pretty easy step. They were 29th in rush attempts. I was noticing this while reading the football outsider's almanac. Per Tom Pelliserro, Tom Brady and Bruce Ariens both personally recruited Bernard. They both wanted him. It was important to them. And I think particularly Brady, this is a very, very crucial piece of information. Brady went out and was recruiting this dude.

And there's a very strong reason for this. the pass-catching group on the Buccaneers last year was just freaking awful. Like they had number one, the worst drop rate in the NFL, 14.4%. That was by far the worst. At the running back position, sorry, yes. I was going to say Mike Evans and Chris Godwin pretty good. Yes, the receivers are very good. The running back sucked in the passing game a lot.

They had 17 passes, which was by far the worst in the NFL, and 14.4% drop rate, which was the worst. And why is this important? Since 2018, Tom Brady is ranked first, second, and third in targets to running backs. He loves checking it down. He loves using his running backs in the passing game. Going back, and this is not an apples to apples comparison, obviously, because it's a different team, different players. But Tom Brady and James White, that relationship, 2016 through 2019, that was four seasons. James White averaged 99 targets, 72 catches, 623 yards, and five touchdowns per 16.

16 games in that stretch. And that was in the famously muddled, annoying, you never know what you're going to get from the Patriots backfield. It's the same deal in Tampa Bay. Like, we're annoyed. We don't know what we're going to get from the Tampa Bay backfield.

James White did that. 99 target average over five seasons. Sorry, over four seasons. And now, he never finished, he did finish 2018 as seventh in PPR at the running back position. He was 18th, 38th, and 26. So basically an RB3 slash flex option.

But right now, you can get geo like really late in drafts. We got him as the RB50. And I think like people just are kind of forgetting about him. And maybe they're just turned off by the Buccaneers backfield, which I think is fair. But it's the same deal we've had with the Patriots backfields for years where you just don't know who's going to be the main guy. It's pretty clear to me. It seems like he's going to be the past catching back, you know? And so I think there's some real hidden value there.

And I got really excited doing all this research because I hadn't really considered it honestly that strongly before going through it making this doc. So I'm all over Giovanni Bernard this year. I think he's going to do that James White role and he's going to be really good in it. Let's just start calling him James White. Florida James White. I think he's just not a sexy pick. He's been around for a while. He's not a big play guy.

He's not going to score a million touchdown. sounds. He's just like a smart pick, and I think it's boring. That's the only reason why people are off of him. It's boring, but I think you're dead on, D.K., because, I mean, there are so many, I feel like, like, Tom Brady literally brought Gronk from New England. Like, he wanted to bring a lot of the good aspects of what New England did, but they didn't have that role. And I think they maybe envisioned Kishon Vaughn, that rookie they drafted running back last year to take that role. He was not ready. He came from Vanderbilt, and, like, he's a special teams guy. I don't even know 100% if he makes the team, but he'll be a special teams guy this year.

And they never filled that pass catch running back roll last year. Ronald Jones, he's not the most natural pass catcher. Leonard Furnett came in midseason. He's solid at it, but like he's not that kind of third down James White guy. And James White, by points per game, was like a top 12 running back two years ago. The last year, Brady was in New England. Like, top 12, it's such a no-brainer. Gero Bernard has such that kind of skill set, except honestly, probably a little bit of a

probably a better runner than James White is. So he's not quite as much of the hell. Yeah. And I think I love this pick. We are on the same wavelength today. I think this is this another one of yours. It was. And like the other key thing is that if you just like zoom out,

there's been a lot of research that suggests like, like people have crunched the number as crunch the tape, but like the math. And they're like, if you want to take a flyer on a late round running back, the best kind of running back that pops is the past catchers. The past catchers, like once you,

get out, you know, into the wilderness past like 130 guys are off the board and you're looking for running back, the past catchers are the best bets. They're just the ones most liable to go off. And like, Geo Bernard checks that statistically, like, that's the kind of profile you're looking for for a sleeper, but also Tom Brady recruited this guy to play on third downs and, you know, through James White's 70 passes or 70 throws like three years ago. Sorry, 100 throws to 70 catches. That's like all the things you want in a sleeper. I love that. He averaged, James White average 99 targets a year. I'm like, I don't know how that, like, I don't know how Bernard has sort of flown

under the radar for me so far, but I'm like so excited about it now. I'm going to grab him in the late rounds in every draft, I think. I think we were big on White, too, a few years ago. Yeah. And also, I do want to shout out James White is like, James White himself is also a solid one. I don't think he quite is Bernard's upside. But James White also, like, just kind of underrated. And I know that, again, Tom Brady's not there, so it's not really fair.

say, you know, he had, he was top 12 points per game two years ago, but he was. And if Mack Jones takes over this job, I think James White's going to be his best friend. So James White is also not the worst guy to kind of have, you know, as one of your later picks. And he's also just kind of disappeared from the fantasy radar once Tom Brady left. How deep is this, uh, Geo Bernard pick? It's pretty deep. Are we in the snow? I'll give it a level three. He's, D.K's hyping up the third running back on a depth chart for the Super Bowl. Like, I'm kind of down with that. He is ranked 150th on our board. in half PPR. So, I mean, that's pretty solid.

It's maybe not your last round, but it's getting towards the end of the draft for sure. I'll give you, no, I'll give you level three because I don't think anyone's thinking about, oh yeah, Joe Bernard really excited. But he is, like, he's actually- That's how I was. That's how I was before today.

Like, honestly, I was just like, yeah, I get it. That's fine. But just, like, digging into the numbers, I'm like, man, he's got a really, he's got a pretty good chance here of being pretty, like, important in fantasy. He does. I love that.

All right, Craig, another deep sleeper. Speaking of quarterback's recruiting players to their team. Randall Cobb. Oh my God, I love this. Randall Cobb's on the Packers now, everybody. He's 30 years old. I think I thought he was maybe 33, but he's 30.

He's one season removed from putting up over 800 yards on Dallas. He was on Houston last year. Didn't work out. Oh, my God. I forgot he was on the Cowboys. Yeah. Randall Cobb's made a lot of money since leaving Green Bay. Yeah.

Gallup and Amari Cooper had over 1,000 yards at year. And Cobb still had over 800. But I don't think it's a small deal that this is the one guy that they brought back for Aaron Rogers. Like I almost think out of spite, Aaron Rogers is going to be like, I'm going to throw to Randall Cobb a lot. Just to show you guys that was a small deal. He literally wasn't even going to come back until they did the Randall Cobb trade. He was, that was the last thing for him to return. Like I almost think he's going to be like, I'll show you that what I believe is correct by how much I throw to this person.

Like he's going to give Randall Cobb a thousand yards just to show like, look front off, look good to come. You should listen to me because I know what I'm talking about. But if you look at Cobb's best years in Green Bay, I mean, it's when there's the least competition, which isn't exactly mind-blowing. But his worst years were when Jordi and Devante were in their prime, or when Jimmy Graham was there, and his best years were when it was just him and Jordi.

And it's just him and Devante now. Like, there's really nobody else. Like, I guess, I don't know how you guys feel about Lazard and Tanya, but, like, I really could see this scenario. I'm more worried about Amari Rogers, but that's, they're playing the same role as Cobb, and they might just bring him along slowly. I agree, but Roger's own words in his, this wild press conference, which we have not talked about.

But he, in Rogers' own words, he said he wanted Cobb as a true slot receiver, which he felt they did not have last year. So he's ranked 241 on fantasy pros. Like, there is absolutely a world in which he's like a really strong flex option and just gets like four or five catches a week. At the end of the day, chemistry with Aaron Rogers, to the point that Rogers was like, I might not come back to the Packers unless you trade for Randall Cobb. I mean, what else could you ask for? This is just another extension of spite season. By association. Yeah, Aaron Rogers, top five quarterback.

All right, D.K. How deep is Cobb? How deep is Cobb? What level? It was level three, and then Aaron Rogers did a press conference where he was like, yeah, no, I wanted Cobb back. So I don't know, I can't give you level three for that. I mean, I kind of feel like it is, though,

because it's even on our rankings right now? No. Yeah, but this was before radio. We got to update it. We got to update it, but how high you think we have? post-Reynil Cobb was part of the demands for Rogers to come back. I guess, but I think this is a deep cut. I'm not giving Craig the level three for when Aaron Rodd.

Like, I'll give him the level two. Why didn't you write him down then? I did have him written down. I'm actually very impressed. We all, I'm actually very happy. Like, for a deep sleeper exercise, we're actually all on the same page. This is pretty good. Swiss cheese.

We all got holes. We're stacking up. It's like we're all on the same page. Who's up highfitz? Or D.K. I think I'm up. All right, this is, I'm going to tell you in advance. This is level one.

This is not Randall Cobb. but a guy that I just like, Mikko Hardman, man, for the Chiefs. I feel like he's the classic sleeper. I'm back on the train. Even last year, there was beat writers saying

like he's probably a next year guy. And it's true. Like, this is not rocket science. Sammy Watkins left the Chiefs. Meiko Hardman's really freaking fast. He's a huge opportunity to just be the clear third option

in this passing offense. And if he has developed as a better route runner and just more consistent and someone Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid can trust to be on the field, you're on the field for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's not been able to do as much,

but all the beatwriters for Kansas City just kind of keep repeating via really the coaches, this is a huge training camp for Mekyll Hardman. I'm not beating the drum quite yet. I want to see how it goes for him, but if there are still positive vibes around Mekyll Hardbin like two or three weeks from now, mid-August, you know,

this is a guy who's going 120, 130 in drafts, like you can get him from pretty cheap. You know, I want the really fast guys from homes that also might be able to do a lot of different stuff for them on the field. Like, I just, those are the guys you want.

Hardman's, yeah, Hardman is the classic post-type sliver. It is like, I feel a little bit snake bit by him. Just like, I was pretty excited about what he could do last year. That did not work out.

And I guess the question I have in my head is, yeah, he's going to be, you know, the number three in a high-octane, high-scoring offense, but they feed so much their offense through Kelsey and Hill

and then also clouded versus allaire. I'm like just wondering how valuable he's going to be. I agree with everything he said. And I think that he could make a jump from a talent point of view. But I'm just like still kind of curious. Like is this going to be worthwhile in redraft leagues where you're not playing like best ball or whatever? Like how valuable is. I get that.

But like Michael Gallup is the third option in Dallas. And they all, that's not including Ezekiel Elliott. And like that's a guy that's probably going to 30 spots higher than Michael Hardman. A little more. Gallup has a thousand year, or a thousand yard season on his resume. He's better, to be clear. Michael Harbin ran a 4-2,

what did he run? He ran like a 4-27? Something like that, yeah. So here's the thing. I think it was unreal, like those, the guys who can do that and also run crisp routes

don't go 57th overall. He went 57th because he was a little raw. What I'm saying is if he's tight, like this is, he's entering his third season. If he's able to develop and all the chiefs really, the chiefs are hoping that he

They are really thin at receiver. They tried to bring in Juju Smith-Schuster. He went back to Pittsburgh and they're like, all right, screw, we're going to roll into the seasons with Meekyll. And if he could rise to the challenge, there's a huge opportunity this offense for him. Do you think in just when there's two wide receivers on the field, do you think it's him over like to Marcus Robinson or I guess Byron Pringle?

I think the, like here's it. Probably. The team wants him to win that role. Like that's basically what I'm saying. The team is hoping that he has developed enough to win that job. It never works out though. You know, when the team like really wants it to be a thing, I feel like it never becomes a thing.

It usually just happens naturally. If they want it to become a thing, it's because it's not happening. That's fair. But it's very much like, let's check in in a few weeks. But if he has this job down, man, what else do you want? I think he's definitely worth a flyer.

I think my mentality is, more than the other guys that we've talked about on this pod, I'm sort of a little more doubtful that this is going to happen. But I do think he is worth a flyer for all the reasons you mentioned. Would you rather have Mikul Hardman

or Darnel Mooney? Mooney. And that's in a way worse offense. But I just think his role's going to be bigger. Would you, Hyphus, would you rather have Hardman or Elijah Moore? I had Elijah Moore on this list, too. I'd rather have Hardman just for the real politic of like, you're going to be able to get. I have more also.

More all. I think that realistically, you can probably get Hardman and then wait around and go back and get Elijah Moore. So realistically speaking, sometimes you just got to do it that way. But I like Elijah Moore too. I just, part of me is like, do I really, am I really going to rep Elijah Moore? when Zach Wilson is literally yet to report to Jets training camp. He did today. He did today.

There we go. He took the red eye. Yeah. He signed his deal. Let's just talk about Elijah Moore because he's on my list. I think number one, the reason, there's several reasons he's going as low as he's going right now. Every jet can be on this list. Literally all the players in the Jets are deep sleepers.

If this offense takes a big jump with Zach Wilson under center, which I think it could. You know, he's shown out. He's been solid in training camp. I think just the videos that you've seen from training camp, he's making nice deep throws down the field. Wait, give the introduction first for people who may not know Elijah Moore, this is the guy who did the P celebration in the Ole Miss game and then they got the field goal and then they lost the game

because he did the celebration. Long story short, Joe Judge is the Giants, he's the Giants head coach because Elijah Moore took a piss on the, like pretended to take a piss on the field. Getting back to him as a player, though, he's extremely, extremely talented. And I think he has the chance to be one of the most exciting and productive rookie receivers this season. He's, I mean, he was literally the most productive receiver in college football on a per game

basis last year. And one of the most productive rookie or sorry, college receivers ever based on his per game averages. Highly explosive, very dynamic. You can use them as a running back in the back field. He's got that like, you know, again, it's like the Debo Samuel skill set. It's very similar to what Rondell Moore brings. And again, this is the same offense as the 49ers run, like in theory. They're going to have him, I guess, and I believe, as a big weapon around the line of scrimmage.

So screens, sweeps, endarounds, just straight runs from the backfield like we saw with Diba as a rookie. Remember, Debo as a rookie, had 81 targets, caught 57 passes for 802 yards, and three touchdowns in 15 games. He was wide receiver 29 as a rookie, which was just behind Terry McLaren. And so, like, the Devo hype has certainly trailed off because he was injured for most of his second season. but I think there is a role here where Elijah Moore could be very productive and a big part of the offense, and he won't even have to be highly refined route running and all that stuff. Like that stuff's going to come later, and I think he's good at that too. But he has this floor based on the fact that I think he's going to be the Debo same of all of this offense.

And he's more explosive than Debo, by the way. So I'm very excited about what he can do. A lot of it has – there's a lot up in the air because we don't know what Zach Wilson's going to look like. we don't know what this offense overall is going to look like. So there's tons of variables. But I think he's worth, you know, he's worth that bet because, you know, he's, I just think he's an explosive, very talented player and everything we've heard out of training camp from, like, basically all the beat reporters is that he's just looked incredible.

Like, he came in and looked like a veteran. So the problem with the Jets is there's a million different players catching passes. We have Keelan Cole, Jameson Crowder, Corey Davis, Elijah Moore. There's like two tight ends. You got Michael Carter. Tavin Coleman is a lot going on. With just, I feel like this all comes down to Zach Wilson. Zach Wilson, I think, is the only QB sleeper that any of us thought about putting down on this list.

And can somebody tell me why he's not seen as a higher pick right now? Is it because he's like a white Mormon kid? I don't get it. I'm kind of being serious, though. Like, his play style to me is something that would be very enticing. to fantasy and to people out there. So why is he's in the New York market? He's got a brand new coach.

Like, why aren't people into Zach Wilson? I think it's largely due to the Jets being just the sad sack franchise for so long. And people are guarded against the idea that all of a sudden, the Jets are going to do something fun and produce something exciting as, you know, as a rookie. We've seen so many quarterbacks come through New York and they've all been bad. But you can say the same thing about Chicago. Chicago or Jacksonville. Yeah, that's true.

Those three cities in a row, New York, Chicago, Jacksonville. It's been brutal for all of those. I think there's also this idea that, you know, with Trey Lance and Justin Fields, those guys are much bigger-built runners in college. I think Zach Wilson is a scrambler. In the same way, you know,

I always get annoyed when people compare Zach Wilson to Patrick Mahomes, but I think they have some similarities in their ability to kind of like play outside of structure. and as a scrambler, Zach Wilson has some similarities, I think, to Patrick Mahomes. However, that's not a high, high ceiling as a rusher. You know what I mean?

He's not going to be, I don't think he's going to be used in, like, read option stuff, all that stuff. He might get two to three points a game extra because of his scrambling, which is not nothing, but it's not like, you know, Patrick Mahomes is not a great fantasy quarterback because of his legs. He's a great fantasy quarterback because he throws 50 touchdowns. So I think there's that. But honestly, like the most, I think the biggest deal is it's the Jets.

I agree. Sometimes you just have to visualize a sleeper in your mind's eye. And then when you visualize that quarterback in a Jets uniform, it's harder to be like, oh, yeah, this will go great. Like, that's a bias, but that is straight up how people's brains work. And I think my problem with the Jets is, I think all this is in theory. Like, it's cool that they hired Mike Lafleur. There's this whole basically college bro friends between the Lafleurs and Shanahan and Robert Sala,

that they're all now running NFL teams. Michael Fleur is the younger brother. Craig's head coach. Craig's next. Craig's next. Yeah. Craig's next to the lineage. But like Michael Fleur was working for Shanahan.

So it's like, oh, well, the Jets will be the Shanahan system. I don't believe Michael Fleur has ever called plays in the NFL. So it's like, it's a lot. It's like,

it's easy to be like, oh yeah, it'll be a Shanahan system. It's a harder to run said Shanahan system. Like, that's not easy. It's like, especially the running game that is so great.

And like the play action and all that. like setting up plays. It's like boxing. You've got to set up punches and combinations. That's kind of hard to just learn to do. Kyle Shanhan's, like one of the reasons he's Kyle Shanan is not just that he has this otherworldly mind and like can process stuff.

It's that he's in the moment processing what he needs to do. He's not figuring out 12 hours later. That's not just a given that you can just do that immediately. So I think part of the problem, it's not just that it's, and part of it is probably because he's a white Mormon kid. But obviously it's easier to, you know, picture Justin Fields,

Tray Lance or Trevor Lawrence being good immediately than is Zach Wilson and also the Jets kind of suck. But it's also like, is this really going to be an offense that keeps the chains moving? Yeah. So, Hyvitz, first of all, to your point that you're making about play colors, I think that's so crucial. And it's something I forget too,

but there is a massive, massive difference between system and plays and play sequencing and play calling. There's a huge difference. you have to be able to see what the defense is doing and exploit the weaknesses. It's like seeing the Matrix. That's why Bill Belichick is so great. That's why Sean McVeigh is so great.

It's because he knows exactly what the defense is doing and Shanahan. And he can design schemes and play sequence, like the sequencing of plays that keeps defenses off balance and not knowing where the fuck you're going with the football at all times. It's not the system necessarily. Everybody's got the same plays. Everybody can see the plays you're running. It's when do you use those plays. So I think that's a very interesting point.

I think that's something we just absolutely do not know with Michael Fleur. And then to your second point, real quick, the other thing that we don't know is, like, literally who are going to be the starters in the Jets offense. It could be like a whole new set of starters. New running back. Like three new receivers, potentially, if Javis and Crowder doesn't make the starting lineup. New quarterback. A couple new offensive linemen.

It's like there's just so many variables. Yeah. We just don't know. the other the point to about play sequence against one to come back to this for a second this is why I completely whiffed on Derek Henry two years ago because when Arthur Smith was first the coordinator for the Titans and Matt LaFleur left it seemed improbable the Titans would just be overnight incredible and then they were but it's like you know what if generally speaking that doesn't happen that oh Ryan Tanniel steps in and the Titans under their first year offensive coordinator who's never called plays are just The most efficient team after Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs and Andy Reid, who's been doing this for 25 years. That's just usually doesn't happen. Generally speaking, sometimes first year coordinator struggle and wait.

And like, Sean McVeigh has talked about this all the time with Craig on flying coach about all those little moments you never think about. He's like, man, that was a dumb call right here. Like, there are mistakes you make early in your career. That's pretty good. Sometimes it's not like, this is the bad call. Do more McVeigh impressions. I want to hear. Yeah, go ahead.

Craig's McVeigh. No, no. I could never. Not his brother. So to clarify here, I'm on an island on Michael Hardman, but otherwise, we all kind of like... Yeah. I mean, I get it. I get it.

You get it, but you didn't have them in your dock. I'm not excited about it. We kept a separate from each other. We all, me and D.K., like Rondell Moore from the Cardinals as a receiver, maybe to be the number two guy in that Cardinals' offense. We all like, or we like Gio Bernard to be like the James White for the Buccaneers at running back. and I'm already forget.

Oh, Randall Cobb, now the slot receiver for the Packers probably. So we actually have a pretty good amount of overlap here, which is probably a good sign. All right, does anyone have anywhere else you want to throw out? Any other steep sleepers?

Gabe Davis, Bill's. Gabe Dave. Wide receiver. Gabe Dave. Gabe Dave. He was actually pretty good as rookie season. I think D.K. was like a fourth round pick out of Central Florida,

something like that? South Florida. Yeah, UCF. really strong I'll Google that really strong rookie season and if you look at

the guys on the bills catching passes obviously you have Stefan Diggs you have Cole Beasley which you know he might retire to start his own news

network I have no idea what he's doing Emmanuel Sanders 34 years old and kind of it there's no real tight end threat there's no like

huge path catching running back threat and like Gabe Davis had seven touchdowns last year as a rookie he's the deep

deep ball guy, which I think people thought Diggs was going to be a deep ball guy. It's kind of Gabriel Davis. He was the second highest rated PFF wide receiver on deep balls. And the bill's wide receivers scored more fantasy points than any other group of wide receivers last year. Like, I just think there's immense upside. They don't throw their tight ends at all. No. And like, I think there is a world in which Gabriel Davis becomes a number two wide receiver on this team. And it's not that unlikely in my mind. That, that's the bet. Can I ask a related question of this? Go ahead, Hyvitz.

Well, related question to this is do you think Stefan Diggs leads the league in targets again? Or are we kind of drafting Stefan Diggs that is absolute ceiling, assuming they'll do it last year? And maybe Stefan Diggs isn't like a top two, top three guy in receiving yards. He's just a, he's like a tier one guy, but not Tier 1A. And that Gabe Davis has a bigger role. Is that possible? Potentially, but the only thing with Diggs is that he's like severely underperformed on his touchdowns. So you can maybe, if he gets a maybe a few less targets, maybe he'll even out on the,

on the touchdown department. But I kind of think Stefan Diggs should be Tier 1A personally. Yeah. I think he's in the same year. Yeah. I think even if Diggs

does lead the NFL in targets, there's still so much meat on the bone elsewhere, that I think Gabriel Davis is a good flyer. He's a good sleeper. Because right now, I think people are assuming,

and maybe they'll end up being right, that the three-receiver set for the bills will be Stefan Diggs, Cole Beasley, and Emmanuel Sanders. That might end up being the three-recevers set, and they'll go with it.

And we won't really seed Gabriel Davis all that often. He'll be kind of like the guy who scores random touchdowns here and there. But that happened last year. He had seven touchdowns, 600 yards. It's not, you know. So what I think Craig is saying, and I agree with him, is you have to project he's going to make a big jump in his second year. If he does make that big jump and he becomes the number two in this offense, which I think is within the realm of possibility that this happens.

Second year jumps are a real thing. And I think Davis showed enough talent last. year. His target rate wasn't strong and he was very hit or miss, but he showed enough talent in what he was doing to make me believe that he's capable of having a second year jump. And they love him. I think they want him. And I've been hearing this since last year. Adam Kaplan from Fantasy Points has been saying it. Like they envisioned him turning into their ex receiver for the long term. That's why they drafted him. And he started doing it a little bit as a rookie. They did sign Emmanuel Sanders, which I think is a concern. He could just end up playing that role. and like usurping Davis or like just pushing Davis,

you know, back until year three or whatever. But there's also just like this chance that Davis is better than Manuel Sanders and they'd rather just go with the homegrown guy because he has more potential down the line. Like I don't think that's, it's not like a wild thing. I think there's a real chance.

And again, the bottom line is you're looking for guys in high octane, explosive, high volume passing offenses with good quarterbacks. And that's exactly what the bills are. So I like this one a lot. I don't think it's maybe the most probable that he'll break out, but I think it's possible. And I think that's why you're taking a flyer on guy like this late in the draft.

Yeah, it's a worthy shot in the dark. Yeah. Did you guys see that report about Emmanuel Sanders? His jaw was on the floor watching Josh Allen make some throw. He's like, I've been in the league for 12 years, and I've never seen a quarterback make a throw like that. Dude, it goes back to the thing we were talking about a couple weeks ago, how Josh Allen might be like the most physically gifted quarterback of all time.

Like, it's not. That's true, but also think about it for a while. Manuel Sanders perspective. He was with Denver Broncos-era, Peyton Manning, and then last year was with Drew Breeze in New Orleans. Ben Rothesberger? Exactly. Yep.

Not bad. I tell you, if aliens came down and watched Josh Allen play at his peak, they might think this is the greatest quarterback we've ever seen. I feel like they have so many more questions. Yeah, I think they probably have a lot more questions. Why are you guys playing this game? Why do you call some withholding? Why do you call it football?

What do you guys draft running backs? before quarterbacks and fantasy. Yeah. Yeah. What is Buffalo Bill's vaccination rate? Why isn't it points per first down? They wouldn't be asking that. No one gives a shit about that.

Not even aliens. Fuck you, Craig. All right. You guys want my rapid list a lightning round of sleepers? Yeah, I got one more. I got at least two more that I want to mention real quick.

Okay. Do it. Do you want to go first or do you want to wait? It's not a lightning round. Give me a thunder round. Okay. So Marcus Callaway with the Saints. Now that Michael Thomas is out,

it's Treyquan Smith and I think ostensibly it's Marcus Calloway as number two you could have maybe Deontay Harris in there in the slot or whatever but Callaway last year well first thought let's back up he switched to number one this season

I think that's good juju like that's a like his number I like his style jersey yes I feel like if you are one of those receivers that switches to a single digit number and you don't have a good year

you have to go back you have to perform if you like switch to a number. It's not just a single digit number. It's number one. Maybe the best wide receiver in the team should just wear number one

and the second best should just wear two and then you can jostle between them throughout the season depending on how people are playing. That'd be kind of cool. You cannot suck though

if you have a single digit number. You're hurting my ability to make this a thunder round, High Fitz. Sorry. Too much, too much chit-chat. No, I'm just kidding. 174 targets

have opened up in the Saints' offense. And I believe that was before Michael Thomas' injury. So, like, there's a shitload of targets that are available in this offense going forward. He played, Calloway did, he has like similar size to Michael Thomas. He played the ex-receiver role at times where in the offense that they run, they ran last year anyway. Lots of slants, lots of hooks, lots of comebacks, like the types of things that Michael Thomas just thrives with.

And I think Treyquan Smith ran more routes out of the slot. And I think he's more, he profiles more as like a deep threat. He was like an elite deep threat in college. So there's this real chance that Callaway sort of takes on the Michael Thomas role. And obviously that's a huge, huge deal in the Saints offense. Like it's just a target hog spot. So I think that the odds that Calloway hits and is like a big star are pretty lower, at least lower than the odds that he'll just be nothing.

Like he'll be like a guy here he has like three targets a game or something. Like there's that very real chance that happens. But in terms of talent matching up with opportunity, I think he's got a very good opportunity here to be a big surprise. Adam Caput, who I just mentioned before from Fantasy Points, his intel is the Saints are very high on him. They got him an undrafted free agency,

but he had some pretty impressive games last year. He had a 10-target, 8-catch, 75-yard game last year when Sanders and Thomas were both out. So he kind of stepped up. So I'm just wondering if he has a chance to be the big surprise guy that emerges from the Saints' offense. And I'm not saying it's going to be a high-awks. obtain high volume passing game.

Because I think right now, it's trending more towards Taysam Hill being the starter. But you just never really know. If they go the other direction and go with James Winston, maybe he's just like getting peppered with targets, week in and week out. I just think he's worth taking late in drafts again, seeing how that pans out. I'll give you level three for Marquez Callaway. Yeah, that's good. Cool.

Well, wait, speaking of Deep Sleepers and the Saints, have you heard of a guy named Michael Thomas? I have, yes. No, I'm kidding. I actually do want to shout out Adam Troutman though, tight end. Ooh, I like that one too. He could just, I just have to shout him out.

Anyone Taysam Hill is throwing to is immediately level three, snow compound, level slipper. Yeah. The other one I want to mention real quick before he kind of wrap things up is J.D. McKissett.

Like, I think that we're all assuming, and probably correctly, that Antonio Gibson is going to take most, or a big chunk of his target. These guys don't go away, man. there are always these annoying receiving backs

that end up being a bigger part of the offense than any person in fantasy wants. Again, he had 110 targets last year, most among running backs. He's a former receiver. He's a college receiver, so he's like got the chops to do that. Obviously, Gibson did too,

but I don't know if they necessarily want to put so much on Gibson's plate that he is the guy on all three downs. And also, by the way, he has a toe injury, which are very finicky injuries. So this is more of I guess like

I do think he has some standalone value I don't think he's going to be worthless But if this toe injury is more serious Than people are treating it right now Like McKissick has like legit RB1 upside in this offense So he's a guy that I'm adding in the end of drafts a lot too And to be clear a toe injury doesn't mean he has to miss time

To like make McKissick valuable If Gibson just the toe injury just gets bad enough He needs to rotate out more and the McKissick gets him, like we're assuming Gibson gets the third down work, but the toe injury could be bad enough that he just has to cede some time to McKissick doesn't have to be like it's so bad he misses games. Yeah. Just the drive here or two.

A couple other guys, I'll go thunder round. Jamal Williams from Detroit, I just have a gut. I feel like he's the goal lineback. I feel like he's more than change of pace. D.K., we disagree here. You like D'Andre Swift. I don't dislike him. I just like Jamal Williams better.

He's got like 140th than I like the Andrew Swift. in the first few rounds. And I feel like Jamal Williams is going to piss off a lot of DeAndre Swift owners and I feel like, or managers, I think Jamal Williams is going to be a lot of four-minute drills

and a lot of touchdowns. I also want to shout out, this is level, I don't know what level this is. Zach Ertz. Just a completely bizarre situation was supposed to be traded from the Eagles. The Eagles say they're going to keep him.

If they keep him, it's bizarre, but I still kind of feel like Zachertz ends up in Buffalo and actually is like a top 10 tight end. Obviously it's a little out there. But I feel like Zachert's, if he does get traded, it's kind of just forgotten that he exists. I feel like he's not dusted quite yet.

I feel like he could make an impact on it, one of those. Like the bills don't throw out of tight ends, sometimes because their tight ends are bad. I'm kind of curious to see what happens to him. But that's the other guy that's just been forgotten from the ether. You guys see his new blonde hair? He looks like Billy Idol now. It's a strange look.

That part's concerning. You know who I, this is a deep cut. you know who he really reminded me of? I couldn't place him. I tweeted this the other day. You remember in Born Identity? Or sorry, the born... What's the first born movie?

The Born Identity. And the guy roped in. Yes, he ropes into the apartment. And Matt Damon stabs him in the hand and he like pulls it out of his hand and then like... He eventually throws him over the balcony, doesn't he? Anyway.

No, he jumps off the balcony. Like, well, he realizes he's beat and so he kills himself, essentially. That's an elite move. Dude. that Zacherts does look like that guy. That's exactly who Zacherts looks like. This like assassin

that attacks Jason Bourne in Paris or something. Zachertz, one of the most elite names for a fantasy team name, My Balls Zachertz. You guys ever heard of that one? My Ballsackerts? Yeah, I got it. Hi Fitz.

It's a good pun. What do you think? Did you hear me? Can I throw one more at you guys? You should jump out the window like that guy did. No when you've lost. Can we get a, let's get real deep here. guys. This is emotionally deep.

Rashad Penny reports out of camp. He's back healthy. Pete Carroll says he's 225 pounds. Looks the best we've ever seen him. Not on the PUP, which was actually a big surprise. The best we've ever seen him. Just want to toss it out there. 2019, when Carson and Penny were both playing, Carson out carried him two to one. But like two to one. Is there any chance? I know they didn't pick him up for his fifth year,

blah, blah, blah. Is there any chance he's Jamal Williams to Chris Carson's Aaron Jones, ish. Any chance, D.K. Yes, there's a chance. You sound like an addict. To think about where you were two years ago and Rashad Penny, and now you're like, is there any chance he's Jamal Williams?

Rashad Penny averages over five yards of carrying over nine yards of catch. He's good. He is a... What I will say and what makes me still have a glimmer of hope that he's going to get utilized in this offense. Number one, obviously,

it's sunk cost fallacy at this point now. Like, they don't need to use him if he's not good, just because they picked him in the first round. However, they did pick him in the first round. I think they want to, like, they're human beings. They don't want to go, like, they don't want this to go down as, like,

the worst first round pick of all time. Also, Chris Carson's always banged up. And like, 2018, they gave Mike Davis 112 carries. Like, they're going to, like, that's a better argument to me. Carlos Hyde last year, wasn't it? That's a better argument. Or two years ago, like, I don't know.

They always use a rotation. I think Chris Carson is the guy, for sure, as long as he's healthy. Pete Carroll's, like, absolutely obsessed with Chris Carson. However, I do think they really like the sort of, it's not Thunder and Lightning

quite, but like Penny, when he was starting to get healthy in 2019, he was for sure the lightning element. Carson gets caught from behind. Carson runs hard and runs people over and he's physical and all that stuff with the Seahawks love, but he's not fast.

He's not going to hit a home run. That's what Rashad Penny potentially could be in this offense. He's a one-cut go, accelerate, and run away from deep. Like, he had more big plays. I don't have the stat in front of me off top of my head, but that season, he was like,

he had more 15 plus yard rushes than, like, Carson ever had that year. And so, sorry, that Carson had had in his career or any other Seahawks player on the team at that time had had. So he was the big play guy for them, and I know I butcher that stat, but the bottom line is he's an explosive play waiting to happen.

That's something that they don't really have from Carson. And so I could see them using him and trying to get him involved. He's a pretty good pass catcher. I don't think there's a world where he's a starter in front of Carson if Carson's healthy. But, I mean, they want to run the ball. Who knows what we're going to get

from this new offensive coordinator? I'm kind of excited to see how this all goes. How deep is this one? Is this level three or mine limbo? This is like... This is limbo. This is your beach. But I have to say, I'm right there with you.

I am... I like this. Yes. Wow! I like it. I don't know how many people have been listening. it was for like the four seasons we've been doing this, but this was literally the first argument we ever had.

Was a Roshad Penny. This is big for me. And for the, yeah, for the record, Craig is a San Diego State alum. So he has like a real reason to love Chris, sorry,

to love Rashad Penny. Yeah, he's one of the, I mean, statistically he's like one of the greatest college running backs ever. Didn't he get drafted by the Seawks and then Kauai Leonard won the title in like the same, you know,

a few weeks span and that, or a month span, I guess. And Stephen Strasberg, I think won, Did he win finals MVP? I mean, World Series MVP for the nationals? I think they're all within a year or two.

You were on a San Diego State run for quite some time. Actually, fun fact, we were going to get you a Christmas gift that was a Kauai Leonard's San Diego State jersey. Yeah. And it got lost in the mail. And then you just guys were like, yeah, whatever. No, he got lost in the mail during the pandemic.

I completely forgot about this for like a year. And then I had already VEDMOed Heifitz for the freaking jersey. We didn't get it. And Hifeith's never followed up with it. He's the one who ordered it, and then I completely forgot about it. And then a year later, Hive was just like, yeah, it never went to Craig. He never got it. Super cool.

No, it was lost in the pandemic, man. That's all I'll say. Yeah. Also, I've been wearing it around everywhere I go. No. Okay. I think that's all our deep sleepers. Anyone else?

Craig, are there any good bands from San Diego State? Bands. I don't know about that. One of the best golfers in the world, Zander Shafley, who's my age, much of San Diego State. He's in the Olympics right now. Oh, okay. Well, that doesn't really help me. He almost won the Masters.

What have you been doing? Right, he got second or maybe third behind Zalotaurus. That's right. I'm tapped in. Okay. Thank you, D.K., thank you, Craig. Thank you, Rashad Penny. Ooh.

Yeah. Thank you, Lorne. Lorne. Thank you, fine young cannibals. You zoomers aren't even you ever know what that is, do you? Hifetz? I was really hoping you would pull this one, Craig. Say it again?

Fine young cannibals. I know fine. She tries me crazy. Oh, yeah, I know some. Who doesn't know the fine young cannibals? The fine cannibals were a British rock band formed in Birmingham, England in 1984 by bassist David Steele, guitars to Annie Cox, and singer Rowland Grift. This doesn't sound at all like you're reading the Wikipedia account.

Also, D.K., you asked me what bands came from San Diego State? Do bands come from colleges? When you hear about a band all going to the same college? He was trying to be nice. So are you saying that musicians don't go to college, Craig? What the hell? The bands usually do not start in college, feel like. He was trying to give you a platform to promote San...

No, he's not right. You were being nice and trying to give him a platform to promote San Diego State Alumni. And Craig's like, fuck you, D.K. No, that's not nice. Okay, what's the San Diego state... What's the San Diego band? How about that? Bands come from cities.

That is true. Actually, every band ever just comes from Orlando, Florida, apparently. That is true. I don't feel like San Diego's not like a big music town. Sublime? Blink 182? Did Sublime come from that area? They might just been straight out.

Blink 182, DK. Did you not hear that? Oh, yeah, Long Beach. You're right. Blink 1282 is San Diego? They're down there. Yeah, San Diego County. What's up?

Blink. I feel like we're leaving out a bunch of like 90 ska bands that came from San Diego. Switch foot. Iron Butterfly, a lot of Scott. Shout on Alex Lee. Angels and Airwaves. Oh, yeah, okay. Switchfoot. That's an old one. Yeah. Oh, wow, Switchfoot. They're Christian Rock, right? Yeah. Oh, my God.

Do you think people are going to be confused when we start thanking Lauren and there's like many minutes left in the podcast? There's 32 minutes left and they're like, what's going on? This is like when we talked about the SpongeBob millennial thing for like 15 minutes after we said goodbye to everyone. Anyway. All right. Well, that's enough of that. That's all I got. Goodbye.