The Ringer NFL Show - Every Angle of the Russell Wilson–to-the-Broncos Trade With Bill Simmons

Episode Date: March 8, 2022

Live on Spotify Greenroom, we check in on Danny Kelly after news broke that Russell Wilson would be traded to the Denver Broncos for a package of players and draft picks. Later, Bill Simmons joins to discuss who won the trade, the future for Seattle at QB, 2022 NFL draft implications, Denver’s high-powered offense, fantasy winners and losers, and Russell Wilson’s relationship with Seattle. Check out The Ringer’s 2022 NFL Draft Guide. Email us at [e-mail]. Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, Craig Horlbeck Guest: Bill Simmons Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Are you ever curious what's going on behind the scenes in Hollywood? You watch a Netflix show or a Marvel movie and you wonder, why was that person in it? Why did this movie get made? I'm Matt Bellany, founding partner of Puck News, and I'm covering the inside conversation about money and power in Hollywood. With my new show, The Town, on the Ringer podcast network, I'm going to take you inside Hollywood with exclusive insight

on what people in show business are actually talking about. Multiple times a week, we're going to bring you short, Digestable episodes featuring some of the smartest people I know breaking down the hottest topics in entertainment to tell you what's really going on. Follow the town now and listen on Spotify. It's here, D.K., can you hear me? I can hear you.

I am in shock. I'm in a state of shock at the moment. The day has come. Russell Wilson has been traded to the Denver Broncos. There are a thousand details to get to, but just right off the bat. D.K., you are a lifelong Seahawks fan. How does it feel? It does feel weird.

It's very, very weird. You know, I think my whole time this past like year, because there's been talk of this going back to last off season, I haven't really ever believed that they were going to do it. My literal first reaction was that, man, Russell Wilson must be annoying for them to actually, like, go through and do this. You know, I don't know how exactly how hard he'd been pushing for it. Obviously, it sounds like he's been pushing for it pretty hard on, you know, behind the scenes.

But I just never really thought that they would do it. It's just strange. like Pete Carroll, 71 years old. The Seahawks have been a competitive team for, you know, each of the last like five, six, seven, eight years. And they've always had a good offense. You know, obviously with Russell Wilson getting hurt last year, that definitely hurt their chances of going to playoffs.

But I don't know, they just been a competitive team for so long that just didn't really believe that they would do this and kind of like try and hit the reset button. So, yeah, it's definitely bizarre. So, D.K., Adam Schaefter just tweeted the trade package. So we're live on Green Room. Shout out to the people in the comments who are putting this in. shout out Matt Leland, but Schaefter wrote,

so the trade packages, Seattle gets quarterback Drew Locke, they get tight end Noah Fant, they get the defensive line in Shelby Harris, they also get two first round picks, two second round picks, and a fifth rounder. Denver gets Russell Wilson and a fourth rounder.

So to say that again, two first rounders, go ahead. It's really, if you think of it, if you kind of convert the players, it's like Noah Fant, they just took with a first round pick, so it's kind of like,

three first rounders, two second rounders, and Drew Locke and called Shelby Harris. So how do you feel about that compensation, D.K.? I don't know. Like, look, the Drewlock thing, I think, is going to be something that people talk about. I'm sure it's just like them looking at that as like the Broncos aren't going to do anything with Drewlock going forward. It's, that's just a throw in. It's not like the centerpiece of the deal. I mean, he might have a chance to compete to start next year, but I'm guessing the Seahawks are probably going to go the draft route and or bigger name for

agent route. No fan. I think he's a good player. He fits what they want to do. So that's a good piece. I wouldn't say, again, it's not like necessarily like this game changing piece or whatever that they're

getting back. Shelby Harris is whatever. I think the real deal is the two first rounders, the two second rounders and a fifth. The fact that they're giving back a fourth is kind of hilarious to me. Like you're giving them Russell Wilson and a fourth. You know, I guess that was just Denver haggling.

But yeah, I mean, look, I've been against trading Russell Wilson from the start. Like my, I've always said, like, it just doesn't really make sense in my mind for them to trade Russell Wilson when you have a team like this that's ready to compete in a very tough division. I think you're going to have, this is potentially going to set the CX back a few years. Again, they're in the NFC West. Everyone else is ready to compete at this point. Everyone else has a quarterback. Now the CX are going to be in that QB question mark zone with like a lot of teams that just are middling every year.

So to me, this doesn't make a ton of sense. I think that the, the, what they're getting back, like on paper looks fine. Two first rounders, two second rounders, a couple of good players. You know, I think that like on paper again, that looks fine. But like, just overall, man, I can't like, I really still am just shocked that this actually happened. I was going to say, you're talking like an analyst, but I want you to just be a Seelks fan for a second.

How do you feel? Like, does this make you mad? Are you dumbfounded? Like, how does, how do you feel about your team just, just, you're just, trade away Russ. Like, how does that feel? It doesn't make me mad. If anything, like, I'm intrigued.

I'm, like, fascinated how this is going to go. Like, obviously, they're resetting everything. It's bizarre. Like I said, I never wanted them to trade Russell Wilson. I was against it the whole time. I thought it was a dumb move. I don't know if this makes them better. But at the end of the day, I'm kind of fascinated by what's going to happen now.

And by the way, I'm a draft guide guy. They have the, I'm assuming this first rounder is this year's first rounder, which is the number nine overall pick. So that means they could maybe be in the market for like a Malik Willis. Like this is super exciting all of a sudden. It's totally different. And again, just to be totally clear, I actually don't think this is like the right thing to do for the Seahawks. But again, it gets really interesting.

Like this is going to be a fascinating thing going forward for this team, which has been sort of in the same mode for the last seven, eight years where it's like every year you can kind of expect the same thing from this team. Now everything is going to be different. So I guess on that level, I'm kind of interested to see where this goes. It's just, like, fascinating. I think it's crazy what this does to the landscape of the NFL too, right? Like the two Western divisions. Like you have the NFC West, which now the Seahawks are like officially kind of in a rebuild or at least a pause until they get a quarterback.

And now it's kind of the Rams, the Niners and the Cardinals. But now the AFC West, you got Russell Wilson and the Broncos. You've got the Raiders who are whatever. But like, still, they're not bad. Then you got the Chiefs in Mahomes and Justin Herbert and the Chargers. They're in the same division. That's crazy. Yeah.

The West, that's going to be a really interesting division, really, really tough division, obviously for years now. You know, obviously from a fantasy point of view, it's super exciting for Broncos because you've got all these really talented players in that passing game. We've got the good, like the running back, Sermonte Williams. You know, it's going to make things very interesting for that team from a real world

perspective. They probably are going to be a playoff contender slash maybe Super Bowl contender going forward. And, you know, so that makes it really, really interesting. But again, how many teams are going to get out of that division? How many teams are going to make it into the playoffs from that division? It's going to be tough. So, yeah, man, I'm still trying to process this, by the way.

If people can tell, I'm still just like sort of in a state of shock. We have a lot of time to talk about Russ and the Broncos. While you're in your state of shock, I want to kind of tease out your thoughts on the Seahawks here because you've rooted for the Seoaks for so long. You've rooted for Russ for so long. I think my question for you, D.K., the Seahawks just traded two first rounders for Jamal Adams, kind of on the thought that they would be Super Bowl contenders. they're not. Now you're getting back two first, two seconds and a couple of players. How does that

feel like, like, like, do you feel like you got enough or do you feel like you just gave up a quarterback and it doesn't matter? Um, it, look, that's the thing is like you said, the Seahawks traded two first rounders for Jamal Adams in the, going back throughout the last six or seven years, whatever it has been like the Seahawks have been atrocious in the first round and they haven't picked in the first round a few times too. So, um, when you look at it from a, point of view of the Seahawks haven't done very well lately to convert those first round picks into quality productive players. It doesn't feel like enough. And the fact that like Drew Locke and Shelby Harris are kind of like, like, you know, on the marquee of this trade is just

like hilarious to me a little bit. But if they were going to trade Russell Wilson, which apparently obviously they were willing to do and wanting to do because, you know, again, going back to what I said at the beginning, maybe he's just so annoying they just wanted to reset and get like get back to doing Pete ball and running the ball and playing defense and all that. You know, if they're going to trade this guy, this quarterback, one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL, you know, top 10 quarterback, top five quarterback, potentially, you know, you better get back multiple first rounders. And again, adding two second rounders is nice.

Adding a guy like Noah Fant is nice. I'm not really too concerned about the other two guys, to be honest. Like Drew Locke, I don't think it's going to be a starter in the league. So, you know, like, again, on paper, that's what you're looking to get. back if you're going to trade your quarterback, but it still does not feel like enough to me. Just like if you're talking emotions and expectations for what they're going to do with those picks, it does not feel like enough. So I want to ask you a couple more questions, and then I want to bring some people up.

So you can hit the request to speak button, and then we're going to bring some people up to ask us some questions and stuff. I want to shift gears to the Broncos for a second, DK. How would you rank the AFC West teams now? You got Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs, Justin Herbert. in the Chargers, you have the Raiders and Derek Carr, assuming Derek Carr comes back, I think he will. Where do you slot in the Russell Wilson Broncos into that pecking order? That's a tough question.

I'd say the Chiefs are going to be the favorite still. You know, you got Mahomes. They're still a very talented team. I think it comes down to, like, who you believe in more with the Broncos and the Chargers. I tend to believe in the Broncos at this point, like with what they have on defense, the pieces they have on offense, what Russell Wilson can do in that offense. You know, obviously the big X factor. And Vaughn Miller apparently will be coming back.

That is the word on the street. Is he signing with Denver right now? Wow. He's hinted at this. But yeah, people in the chat are saying it. But it seems like he would return. I think there's a big wild card here too, which is the fact that they have a new head coach, Nathaniel Hackett.

We don't really know what he's going to bring, to be honest. So I would say it's like it's the chiefs in their own tier. And then you got the chargers and the Broncos who are probably going to be competitive. And then throw in the Raiders who, again, I don't really know exactly what to expect from the Raiders. They were a playoff team. So, you know, maybe that, maybe that they'll take another step, go forward and, and improve next year.

But I think there's just still a lot of question marks with them, too. So again, this is like, it's like the NFC West, but you just, like you could throw, you could put them in any different order. It wouldn't really surprise me other than the chiefs, I think, are going to be the top team in this division. All right. I want to bring up a couple of people. We're going to start with Dominic.

Dominic. Dominic. Dominic. up you got to hit the unmute button and then you can talk dominic all right hit the unmute button you can speak dominic uh you got some cute dogs as his avatar so Aaron Rogers is off the table yes sir he's he's off the table okay okay um I actually think that without those twos that we got for von Miller I don't know if this is possible because I think I think they they actually do need a lot of help on the team especially like the offensive line like I think I think

those two that they got back for von Miller really helped and I don't think that that's possible. I don't think this is possible without it and the only thing I really care about in this trade that Denver gave as a Broncos fan, the only thing I gave up that we care about is Noah Fant. Right. And Ted ends are replaceable.

And you got Albert O to replace them right away. So, you do a lapse today as a Broncos fan. You're just over the moon? I'm talking myself into Russell Wilson a little bit. The last few years haven't been super encouraging, but you know, how many, he's been to two Super Bowls and he's still 33. Yeah, I mean, Russ has been absolutely fantastic.

I don't think you got to talk yourself into Russ. I mean, that's a simple question, but how good is Russell Wilson right now? Like, is he a top five quarterback? Is he a top 10 quarterback? Where would you slot Russ in? I mean, honestly, look, if we're going to get into the weeds about if this is a, this makes sense for the Broncos, I think that's an interesting point is like, yeah, Russell Wilson has certain limitations in where he's going to pass the ball.

You know, he's been really, really bad. on third down throughout his whole career, basically. And so that's like, those are big question marks. And frankly, he doesn't like to throw over the middle of the field. But you got a guy like Hackett coming in, you know, in theory, they're going to, they can come in and run like a Green Bay Packers style offense. Like, you know, Aaron Rogers is very, very efficient in that offense. They're going to marry the pass with the run.

They're going to do a lot of play action. You know, want to play good defense. Like, this is essentially now Packers West. And so I do think that Russell Wilson will be good in that style of offense. Like, that's what the CX have tried to run. The question is, is Russell Wilson going to be happy if they have a very balanced offense and a very balanced attack? Because obviously, one of the main hiccups like with Seattle was they didn't pass the ball enough, or at least that was sort of what the rumor was or what he was kind of pushing is like he wanted to be able to cook more.

And so if they come in and he wants to run like a really heavy pass versus offense, I don't think that's going to work really well. And the same way, that didn't really work that well in Seattle other than a few little short spurts. So at the end of the day, though, I do think it is a huge, huge upgrade for. the Broncos and makes them an immediate like not only playoff contender but like potentially a super bowl contender because they have the infrastructure in place corinincenton jerry judy tim patrick you know albertoe i think is a starter quality tight end which is the reason they were willing to trade no affant javante williams is going to be one of the best young running backs in

the NFL i do think you know you make a good point with the offensive line like who knows what's going to happen with this offense line but russell russell wilson hasn't had a good offensive line in his whole career so um i don't know if that's necessarily going to move the needle too much for me so Yeah, I think overall, like, bottom line, this is good for the Broncos. It's really, really good for the Broncos. All right, we got, we got Bill Simmons here in the green room. What's up, Bill? How's Danny doing?

I'm just checking in on Danny. How you doing, Danny? I'm 100% just in shock right now. I'm still trying to process this. I really didn't believe it was going to happen. There were so many rumors for so long. I just, you know, I kind of, when I saw the news, it was like Adam Schaefter tweeted it. I'm like, wow, this is actually real.

So I'm in shock. What's your, what's your reaction? I had been hearing for the last few days that they were taking offers, and I didn't want to tell you because it was such a, it's such a traumatic thing for you. I was going to send the text to you and Mina, but I just said it's, you guys were fearing this day for what, a year and a half? Yeah. Something like that. But I, I got to say, I thought he kind of won the trade. Do you? Are you, you're kind of down on Russell Wilson overall, though, right? Is that kind of good. I was. I didn't think he was good last year. I didn't. Um, and he's, um, and he's 33 and I don't know. Were you going to win the Super Bowl next year or the year after? No. So now he's 35 and I don't know. I wasn't against it.

But I do think it's the classic, you have to do this trade because of all the other mistakes your organization has made. You know, it's like the makeup move for all the mistakes and then everybody kind of looks around and goes, okay, reset, but it's like, well, you're the reason we're resetting. So that's my thing. How are you feeling? I mean, look, I said it earlier. I'm kind of fascinated.

Really, like, fascination is, like, the overarching emotion I'm having right now. It's like, I'm very interested with what they're going to do with this number nine pick overall. Like, are they going to choose a quarterback? Is Malik Willis in play here? Are they going to do the Seahawks thing and basically pick some player that nobody wants instead at number nine and kind of like go from there? I kind of lean that's probably what's going to happen. But, like, honestly, it would be really a fun if they decided to pick a quarterback there. whether it's Willis or Pickett or whoever.

I doubt it would be Pickett. I'm guessing if they're going to pick anyone, it would be Willis. But, you know, I think, again, I'm just kind of fascinated with how this goes. Now that it's sort of sinking in that this is real, I'm sure I'll talk myself into this over the next few days. And it'll be kind of exciting going forward. But I think your point, though, like overall, it wasn't likely that they're going to win the Super Bowl over the next couple of years. And then, like you said, then they get to the point where, you know, in two years, Russell Wilson getting kind of old. he still has the same limitations he's always had,

but now he really can't run and add in that part of the game. And then you kind of like back yourself into a corner. You can still get a really good haul, two first, two seconds, plus a good tight end. It's not the worst thing, but again, like,

if I was like being totally honest, I would say don't make this trade right now. I think Russell Wilson's whole career has kind of come full circle because he started out as falling to the third round because he was too short. And now we're at the point where without, you know,

we're dancing around it, but it's, is he elite or is he too short to be elite? Because when we're talking about, can he hit the middle of the field? That's a height thing. And I think that that's really what I'm interested in here is because if he's an elite quarterback and the Seahawks really have been holding him back all these years, then this is definitely worth it. But I also wonder, I don't know, like on one hand, I agree with Bill where last year he was bad,

but also look, he had the finger injury. The Seahawks were kind of a disaster. I'm pretty interested to see how good they can be. I don't know. D.K., do you really think that, do you think that Russ is limited by us? Like, is he capable of running an offense where they hit the middle of the field or is he just not able to do it or they have not done it so far? I mean, we haven't really seen him do it. So, why would we think all of a sudden he could start doing it?

So look, there's also, like, the question of, was Wilson, like, a good fit for the offense that the Seahawks want to run? You know, like, they brought over the Rams offense, which I think does include quite a bit of over the middle of the field passing. And, like, maybe Russell Wilson just isn't a good fit for that. Maybe this is them, like, resetting that too. But I think, like you said, like the over-the-middle stuff is limits what they can do. It really limits what they can do on third downs. And Russell Wilson has been terrible on third downs. The Seahawks base their entire scheme and philosophy on converting on third downs because

they're very much believers in running on first and second down. That's going to set up. That's going to, like, quote, you hear Pete Carroll talk about this all the time. Stay on schedule. It's going to set them up for a third and three, third and four. And they have to be able to convert on those. And Russell has been over the last four or five years, like one of the worst in the NFL at converting in those situations.

So maybe this was like finally them just being like, look, we're not going to be able to run the offense we want to run with this quarterback. You know, in addition to the fact, he's making like a huge amount of money and I guess like griping and being kind of a pain behind the scenes. Like I think all these things like probably were the reason they decided to actually

do this deal. So I again, like I think it's fascinating. I don't know where the hell they're going to go. I'm going back immediately to like the Tavaris Jackson offense when the early days of the Pete Carroll regime. And I'm just like, man, I don't want to.

watched that, to be totally honest. Like that sounds terrible. But I feel like that's where they're going to be next year. Bill, I'm curious if you think this is the legacy of Tom Brady leaving. And like you've basically like Ron Brady, Russ was watching Tom Brady win the Super Bowl at the Bucks and was like, why am I not getting help?

Aaron Rogers basically got beaten by the Bucks in Tampa Bay and was like, wait, the Buccaneers let Brady recruit Leonard Frenet and bring gronk with him and the Packers won't even ask me if they're going to cut Jay Cumero. And Rogers goes through his whole thing. And basically it's like, all right, final stick with Green Bay. And Russell Wilson, I feel like this whole day is like the legacy of Brady leaving the bats. I thought you were going to be mean to Dana there.

And so it was the legacy of Brady winning the Super Bowl over Seattle. And nothing is gone. I mean, I don't think Wilson had as much saying this as maybe we think. Because I just didn't think he was that good last year. The weird thing to me was that he didn't run the ball as much anymore. And when he did, he wasn't that successful. You know, I think the first five years of his career, he was so dangerous kind of flying around. And I just never felt like he was flying around last year.

Danny, did you? Like, did you feel like he was this multi-threat danger? No. Because last year, he just seemed like more of a pocket passer who a lot of times, like he was making the wrong decisions or as you guys were talking about, he couldn't see stuff down the field. But I thought what made him special those first five years was his ability to move around. And he just didn't see it last year. Yeah, I mean, I think that was like a big problem is there were opportunities for them to have him run more and basically make defenses pay when he had opportunities to run more. He just really never was.

Obviously, he's not as fast as it used to be, but I think he's still fast enough to like make, do some damage with his legs. He just didn't really do it. Over the last like four or five games of the season, he started to do that a little bit more. I remember there was one play where he ran it in for a touchdown. You know, I can't remember if it was a scramble or a design run. But like that was like the Wilson of old that we missed like where he's, he's, he's, he's. He's making defenses pay with his legs, and it just didn't really happen the last couple of years. I think he wanted to prove he can be a pocket quarterback.

He obviously isn't as explosive as he used to be. But, yeah, I mean, that was definitely, like, part of the allure of Wilson is what he can do with his legs. Hi, Fitz, to answer your question, I don't see the, I don't feel like this is a Brady thing to me. To me, this is, like, when Brady went to Tampa, the only thing he had to prove was that he wasn't old. but his his kind of resume was unassailable. To me, Wilson's going to Denver and I do feel like he has a little bit to prove.

You know, that first of all, that Seattle was willing to trade him. When was the last time an awesome quarterback got traded like this? You know, it doesn't really happen for somebody who's supposedly like an elite future Hall of Famer.

So you have that piece. And then you have the piece of like people I guess talking right now is he as good as he used to be. And my personal take, I've watched football, every week last year like you guys i didn't think he was that good last year so you know i think there's more risk for denver because if they think they're getting the guy from 2015 and it's the guy from

2021 that's a disaster of a trade you know you kind of can't why no one back on the other hand if you're denver and you had the quarterbacks you had like hyfitz did you start a bronco qb in the last three years on a fantasy team not in the last five no manning noodle arm season that what was that 2015 Yeah. So Manning 2014 was the last time of Broncos QB probably started a fantasy game. Well, really, I guess if you look at this,

this is the legacy actually of the Broncos of the Seahawks kicking the ass of the Broncos in the Super Bowl. And then the Broncos come back, they win. And those two years, the Broncos and Seerks are like oddly intertwined in like this kind of like this full circle of this eight year window where the Seyilks kick

the Broncos ass. They come back with defense. The defense carries Peyton. And then the Broncos go through this lull. But the Seahawks also have that lull with the defense dies. and now they're back to, oh, actually, let's just flip quarterbacks and we'll be your bill. It's kind of like this weird full circle.

Craig, what's up, Craig? Craig, you had a take. What's going on? Yeah, Craig. What's up, man? D.K. I can't help but feel like the Seahawks are selling low a bit on Russ here. Like, this is to me is like when you break up with your girlfriend and everyone's been telling you to break up with your girlfriend for years and then you finally do it.

And then you're like, well, shit, I'm single now. And single's kind of hard. You don't want to be out here. Yeah. The timing of this. isn't great considering the QB market is barren. And this is the worst QB draft class since the EJ manual year. And yeah, okay, maybe you get the ninth pick in this year's draft.

But like, the Seahawks are going to be irrelevant now for the next five years. Well, no, they got the first and the second in next year's draft. And next year, there's going to be like four or five quarterbacks that could go in the first round. Next year, there's like a lot. And to be fair, Jamal Adams after his surgery, I think everybody's thinking he's going to be good this year. He finally had that torn labrum. Was that, I think the fourth time is the charm they usually say with the Thorne Labrum? Has there ever been an NFL player?

Like, Jamal, I was getting flipped for two first rounders. And then I don't think the Broncos, so I don't think the Seawks even get one first rounder for him right now. Oh, no. No. No way. Absolutely not. Yeah. No.

I don't even think Belichick gives like a third rounder for him. I was going to say, I'm not even sure they get a second rounder at this point, to be totally honest. I like Craig's theory. I think Craig's theory is the right theory. It's a lot of people telling the Seahawks they should break up with their girlfriend. They don't want to be out here. But then you have Denver who's like, you know, and they can say all they want. Oh, no, no, we want to Wilson the whole time.

But come on, they were waiting. The Rogers timing of this cannot be a coincidence. I think they were waiting on Rogers. That was who they wanted. And Wilson was the backup plan. Nobody will be able to convince me otherwise. But do you think Rogers chose, do you think that Rogers basically had his choice between Denver and Green Bay went back to Green Bay or do you think that the

Packers weren't satisfied with Denver's offer bill well let me ask you guys like if he goes to Denver you still have to pay him the 50 million a year right Wilson's not making that much you know and you probably have to give up a little more for Rogers than you did for Wilson so but I still think I still think it would I think they wanted Rogers I don't care what they say I think we'll find out and some Peter King it'll be like buried in a Peter King's Monday I know it's calm five weeks from now that the Broncos actually thought they had a chance at Rogers and then it didn't happen.

I think that's correct. Also, Bill, you were big on like the West this year, NFC West, AFC West. Where do you think the Broncos are in the AFC West backing order and how many West teams make the playoffs next year? Well, that's a big piece of this, right? The NFC West,

where the Niners, if they're going to do Trey Lance, I like them way less. If Kyle Murray's going back to Arizona as being a weirdo. I like them less. And then the Seahawks, is this going to be Drew Locke? Is this going to be Carson Wentz? Like, Danny, get ready for all the usual suspects because they're all going to be

floated your way. Minchew, baby. It's Minchew's time. Oh, now, now you're talking. If you're telling me Minchew, this is everything you just got from Russell Wilson and Minchu, now I'm in. Yes. We got him.

Ladies and gentlemen. Craig, you're not in on that? Minchew in Seattle? He's from Washington. I want Minchew anywhere he's on the field. You know, anywhere we can take a snap. I want Minchew. I got to tell you guys, though,

with Russell Wilson now in Denver, I was just about out. I think I declared myself officially breaking up with Ross at the end of this year in fantasy. But this is like Godfather 3. You know, now I might be back in. Now Russ might have something to prove

like Harden on Philly. Maybe he's got something to prove that. Oh, I'm the backup choice to Aaron Rogers. I'll show you. Yeah, you're right. Denver should float out that he was the backup choice. They should. For the motivation standpoint, that's a plus, not a minus.

Or the Broncos should just trade for Jordan Love and have him sit behind Russell Wilson. Just see how it makes him feel. Yeah, that's tough because they had cameras there for that Jordan Love Star, right? The odd video tape for that? I think there were recordings of it somewhere out there. I don't know. It'd be funny. The package is like, no, no, we didn't have cameras there that day.

No, I'm pretty sure it was televised. Yeah, I don't know. Danny, who's your worst case scenario for Seahawks QB? James. Oh, God. Jimmy G. Jimmy G. That's your worst case?

Because they're going to have to trade for him, though. Like, they're going to have to give up something for him. I'd rather have them just, like, you go, like, get, like, a Marioota or Minchu, like, something really cheap that won't, like, set them back. I think they can get the same type of production from any of those guys as they came from Jimmy G. Mario to Minchu as a combo? Yeah, there you go. I think Wentz actually is the worst case.

D.K., is this week you wanted? Are you happy, D.K.? Week one's going to suck. Oh, my God. No, I'm telling you, the first thing that went through my mind was the Tavares Jackson Seahawks offense. And I don't want to go back there. I don't want to be there.

I don't want to live that again. And we're going to get it. We're probably going to get it here. Craig, I got a new nickname for DK. It's DKG because we're going to have to check his heart rate every week. Oh, my God. Hi, Fitz. Is Russell Wilson a top 10 fantasy quarterback next year?

Absolutely. Like zero question. Because they're going to throw more. And I mean, the offense that they have now with, I mean, Jerry Judy, Sutton. I mean, this is going to, I think it's going to be a pretty fun offense. But I also think that they're going to, he's going to be throwing it more. I have to think with Hackett. I mean, Nate Hackett was the offensive coordinator for the Jaguars when the Jaguars dragged

dragged Blake freaking Bortles, the UFC championship game. And would have beaten the Patriots, if not for that BS pass. interference that was late in the game. But that's another hearing over there. But I think that Russ, I think Russ is probably going to be top eight, top nine. All right. Can we go through everybody? Josh Allen, Josh Allen higher.

Yes. Right. Mahomes higher. Rogers. Prescott, Herbert, Burrow. I have all those guys ahead of them. Yeah. Kyler.

Also Kyle, you're forgetting Kyler. Kyler, Stafford, Rogers. Lamar? Is Rogers higher than Russ now? I mean, he's on two straight MVPs. I think he has to be. I guess now we get to Lamar and that's when I start wondering, I probably would rather have Russ in a new offense with-

Yeah, he's fringe. He's probably in the 8 to 10 range. I think Ross is actually exactly 10 because it's, as Bill's saying, Josh Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, Kyler, Lamar, Rogers, Borough, Dack, Stafford. I think Russ is exactly 10 because I'm not taking Jalen Hertz over Russ. Who knows about the deal with Trey Lance, Fields, Kirk Cousins, like he's exactly 10. Oh, Matt Jones.

That's 10. So Russ is 11. Wait, Craig, this is huge for your guy, Judy. Yeah, I was, that's another guy. I was all out on Russ and Denver. It's like they've combined this super team of all the players I hated and fantasy are now altogether. So I might just have to be all in again.

I might just have to stack Jerry Judy and Russell Wilson. And if I lose, I just quit fantasy forever. Is it Judy Sutton? Who's the other guy? Who is like KJ Hamler? Yeah, Hamler. He's coming off from ACL, but yeah, Hamley. Alberto, Javonte Williams.

Alberto's really good. The new tie-down honestly, the reason, I think one of the reasons they traded Noah fan is they think that Alberto is actually better than Noah fan, who they took in the first round. Jerry Judy really hurt my feelings last year. This is a dude or dog. And you hurt my feelings for pushing Jared Judy on me. So it was like everyone's feelings were hurt.

I'm going to do it again. Okay, but you two also pushed the Jaguars on us. And that was just a disaster. That was like a week. That was a dark time. That was, yeah, it was two weeks. It was the two weeks before we drafted our teams, Craig. Yeah, that was tough.

Well, I also lost money on that, too, with the Jags to 20 to 1 to win the AFC South. That was a write-off in a week. Danny, Kelly. Yeah. Is Noah Fant the most seahockey guy in a while? Why do you say that? Just because he's like super athletic, but maybe not living up to like potential.

Yeah, you're back. You're back with like the potential checks all the boxes, but there's just this one piece that's missing. But mid-August, somebody writes the piece about how great he looks in training camp. It's your kind of guy. I'm already, I'm already there with it. Yeah. One thing we haven't discussed is, man, D.K. Metcalf and Tyler Lockett.

I know, right? Well, now there's like potential. that Laca could get traded. Apparently, people are saying that he might be on the trading block too. It's weird because they just resigned him to a contract before last year. But, yeah, this changes things for DK.

Mekat for sure, unless they, you know, go out and get a really good quarterback. I mean, that was the thing, I mean, real life fantasy-wise, with both Tyler Lockett and Devante Adams, I can't think of other receivers that I have no idea how to value them without their current quarterback.

I mean, I don't know how good Tyler Lockett is with a different guy because he's gotten to such a rapport with Rust that it's like, those random nights. where Tyler Lockett is 200 yards and two touchdowns once every season. I don't know if he's capable of that without Russ. And I don't really know. I don't know how confident I am to draft Tyler Lockett

if he's not playing with Russ specifically. Oh, cool. We've seen that. That's been a, I've been doing fantasy football way longer than you guys. That's a staple of this guy was really good, but he has a way worse quarterback, but he's still really good.

And then you have him, and he has like 49 catches for 680 yards. This is the Alan Robinson. And yeah. It's how about Larry Fitzgerald for like the last five years, five years of his career basically. Yeah. D.

Okay. While we're doing that, you got a D. DK., you have a mock draft coming out on Thursday. You've got your updated big board at NFLdraft.com. Good plug. And let's say,

so you guys have the number nine pick now, right? I'm assuming you have Denver's number nine pick. If you are going to take a rookie quarterback at number nine, who do you want as a Seahawks fan to the Seahawks to draft at number nine? Malik Willis by like a lot. lot by orders of magnitude. Like, by far. I just think he would be, he'd be the most exciting, the most fun. I think he would work in the type of offense that they want to run where it's like

utilizing the quarterback into the ground game, kind of like early, early career Russell Wilson, like a lot of play action, bootlegs, deep shots, and then quarterback running. Like, I think they could do that. They could recreate that. Obviously, you know, living up to what Wilson did early in his career, there's a lot to ask. But I think that that Willis gives them that style for sure. I definitely want him the most. And to be clear, you said that Willis has, like, will be the second best running quarterback after Lamar Jackson the moment he gets in the NFL, but he also is the arm of Josh Allen.

Well, he has arm strength. Obviously, Josh Allen has done a ton to improve his accuracy over the last couple of years. But, like, as a prospects, like, they're similar because Josh Allen had a huge huge arm, but he was just really raw. And I think Willis is the same deal. Willis, of course, is 6'220, whereas Josh Allen was like 6-4, 6-5, 245, or whatever it is. So they're not the same player per se, but they definitely have traits-wise. They're both extremely athletic and be utilized in the run game and have big arms.

So I would be wanting the Seahawks to bet on the upside for Willis more than trying to take one of these other guys that might have a higher floor. I know nothing yet. I haven't done my NFL draft homework, which, as you know, I do at the very last second like I'm in college. But it worries me that this is not a good quarterback draft. and right around what mid-March, everyone starts talking themselves into the flawed quarterback prospects and the guy, if you're the best of the bad litter,

all of a sudden you start to look like the best-looking puppy, but is it just because the litter's not great? I have a question for Danny Kelly. Yeah. So obviously you're texting with Mina Kimes the last hour. So right? At what point of the day will one of you text the other saying,

I can't believe we didn't get Patrick Sertan. Oh, it's already happened. Oh, it happened? When did that happen? How many minutes after the trade? That was a good like 20, 30 minutes ago. And I quote, is Sertan not part of the deal? Multiple question marks?

I just assumed he was in it when I saw the Shepter thing and we didn't know who was in it. It was like, oh, Sir Tans definitely in this. Yeah. But no. I didn't get him. I have a question for Bill. We got Shelby Harris, though. Drew Lach. Thank God you get Shelby Harris.

Shelby Harris is pretty good, right? I don't know, to be honest. I think it's throw-ins. It's just random people Pete Carroll and John Schneider wanted. I have a question for Bill. I think one of the themes, so I've been thinking about this a lot because 10 years ago was the RG3 trade. And then it was like the first big move that Lesneed made as the Rams GM. And he got like a dozen picks.

And they got almost nothing out of it. And then Lesneed turned around was like, man, I'm done with draft picks. And then they haven't picked since 2016. They deal all these picks for Stafford. They win the Super Bowl. Now you've got the Broncos being like, screw it. Let's just give away these picks. Let's just take a shot.

Let's make a run. And I think there's an NBA vibe to that of like, you know what? We have a three, really a two year window. But you have to just, people love the phrase pushing your chips. You have to give up your draft picks to maximize the two year window. Is there an NBA kind of style coming to the NFL you think right now? Yeah, a little bit, especially with the unhappy star piece of it. Because I'm sure stuff will start to come out over the next couple weeks.

Do you think there's a hit piece from the Seattle side, Danny Kelly, about like, Russ was more difficult behind the scenes than we realized something like that. But I do think to answer the high fits question, yeah, the picks piece definitely, but also like the just the movement piece of it. I just think that's going to be all sports. Guys who, you know, in the old days, if you're unhappy, but you stayed unhappy forever. and now you have guys, Aaron Rogers is unhappy, and he went three straight MVPs. He's unhappy.

Wilson's, I guess we'll find out how unhappy he was. Tom Brady was unhappy because the pets had one year where they didn't make the Super Bowl and so on and so on. So I do think NBA NFL is starting to feel a little closer together. I think the difference of the NFL, though, is the, you really do have the guys at least for the first six, seven, eight years. whereas the NBA, you have like the Zion situation where he's three years in and you don't, he's going to push his way out this summer side?

At the NFL, I don't feel like has hit that point yet. Do you guys? I don't know. I'm still processing this. D.K. is like just an emotional. He's like, what's the anchor man? He's like, I'm in a glass case of emotion. I was thinking about what Bill said, though, where he was like,

when's the first Russell Wilson hit piece coming up? I mean, the first thing I tweeted was like, imagine how annoying Russell Wilson must be that they actually traded him. So, like, it's sounding like this was somewhat mutual in terms of, like, the Seahawks were not, it wasn't like Russell Wilson forced their hand here. So, I don't know, that's weird. I'm sure there will be reports over the next few days that, like, Russell Wilson was being kind of a pain in the ass.

It's actually something that's been pretty obvious over the last couple years. Like, the Seahawks don't see eye with Russell Wilson. And maybe they don't view him at the same level as Russell Wilson views himself, which would be hard to do because I think Russell Wilson sees himself as like an all-timer. Well, from a hit piece standpoint, we already had the stuff from

five, six years ago about how the defense didn't like him, right? Yes. You had all that stuff. I mean, that was, I loved all that. You also have, if you're going to hit piece, and do the he didn't really like Seattle,

which will make all the people in Seattle furious. It's like, well, if you like Seattle so much, why did he leave every offseason? Yeah. So you can do that. And then the people in Seattle are like, yeah, why did he leave? It's great here. What a dick.

It's going out of it. But yeah, and then there'll be like, you know, stories from like two meetings where he was a dick. And then that's, that's constitutes a hit piece. Yeah, D.K. D. How acrimonious is this breakup going to be? What's the relationship going to be? I don't know.

So, like, if it was a couple of years ago, so like there was always famously like, Richard Sherman clearly doesn't like Russell Wilson. Doug Baldwin was always sort of undermining him publicly throughout the years. Like the whole Legion of Boom, I think felt like they weren't getting their due credit because Russell Wilson was sort of like a game manager earlier in his career. And, you know, he does that thing where he's like talking about himself being like a future Hall of Famer and all that, how he views himself. So I do think that there was a lot of like the players didn't really like him.

But I doubt it's super acrimonious between the coaches and Russell Wilson right now. But, D.K., what about the Malcolm Butler play? Remember that? It was so crazy when they felt like they called that play because they wanted Wilson to be the hero. There are people on defense that felt that way. Oh, Marshawn Lynch felt that way, that they called a pass instead of a run at the goal line because they didn't want Marshaun Lynch to be the face of the team and all that, which, you know, people think that.

It doesn't matter if it's true or not if people believe it, right? So there was definitely that part of it. And I think that was like one of the challenges Pete Carroll faced like over the years is, you know, a lot of the player, there was like a cult of personality in the, in the locker room with Marshaun Lynch, with, you know, Golden Tate, who there was all those rumors around Golden Tate and Russell Wilson, by the way, which have, I don't know if those were true or not. There was, you know, Doug Baldwin. They didn't really get along. It didn't seem like. So it was like more than one player, is multiple players. And it felt like a lot of the time, you know, Russell Wilson wasn't necessarily the leader in that in that.

locker room for a long time. So maybe that they were trying, like over the years they've tried to like add guys that would like be more on Russell Wilson's side, I guess. But at the end of the day, like, yeah, there's been over,

like throughout the years. It's been like some of his own teammates are like talking bad about him in the press. It's kind of bizarre. Like they resented him because he was the golden boy. Kind of like how everyone at the ringer resents Craig. Yeah. It's very similar.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to get traded soon. I can feel it. I don't know if you're two first round picks material. Oh, that's, you know, 100% is got to be a part of the deal, you guys.

He's at least two first round picks. He's incredible on the rewatchables. All right, I have to go. Danny, congratulations on a new era. Guys, thanks for having me. Keep it going. I'm enjoying it. I'll see you.

All right, see you. Thank you, Bill. Yeah, thank you. I think we're going to wrap this whole thing up right now here, too. Thank you to everyone for tuning in. This was a phenomenal greed room. D.K., thank you for, I don't know how to say this. letting us mind your personal pain for content?

Yeah, I want to, let's just stay on here forever because I don't want to have to go through all my texts. I'm getting blown up, like, so many people are texting me right now. I'm like, I don't want to respond to any of these. I mean, I'm not in a state right now that I can do that. Yeah, God. Well, just take a walk. Just don't bring your phone. Yeah, I should, you know, just take a walk.

As you once said to me, we're all just, you know, floating on space dust through, you know, an infinite void and nothing matters. That's true. I'm actually, I'm double downing on nihilism now, baby. It's all, I'm all in. Yeah, when the Deox are two and seven, you're going to be like, I don't even like football anyway. Fivoting. Fiviting to something else. No more fantasy.

All right. Thank you, D.K., thank you, Craig, for hopping on this and helping with production. Thank you, Pat Muldon. Not Pat Maudi. Thank you, Pat Maldownie and everyone at Green Room. Thank you, Conor and Averins. Thank you, everybody. Thank you for tuning in.

This was a lot of fun. I really appreciate it. Yeah. And thank you, Lord. Thank you, Bruce Springsteing, the boss. Nice. We're just running out of classic here. That's from Pat.

All right. Goodbye, everyone. Love you. Goodbye. And oh, wait, shout to NFLdraft. Dot the ringer.com. Dekh's draft. This guide is there.

We're mock draft coming Thursday. Check out Dekh's draft. NFL draft show, nifledraft. Dot the ringer. and the ringer NFL draft show, a.k. The ringer fantasy football show. But we're the ringer NFL draft show.

And if you like this green room, tap on our faces, and you can follow us on green room. And then we also Twitter. Our Twitter handles are there, too. tap on her face right now before you go and hit follow and you can see us whenever we go live we do a lot of start sit stuff fantasy stuff NFL all right thank you everybody we appreciate it and DKG we'll check on your heart baby did pat shout out bruce springsteen because the glory days in

Seattle are over wow wow that was a little that was a low blow hurtful well yeah shout out sierra yeah that was better see her shadow future and his and Russell Wilson's future as well. Oh, boy. Future and his son, future. Okay, goodbye. All right, I'm out. I'm out.