The Ringer NFL Show - Fantasy RB Rankings, Tiers, and Fears

Episode Date: August 1, 2023

Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck open by addressing a few story lines around the NFL, including Joe Burrow’s calf injury and the Jonathan Taylor–Indianapolis Colts fiasco (1:44). Next, they walk through their running back rankings, place them in tiers, and address their most pressing fears from The Ringer’s 2023 Fantasy Football Rankings (16:23). Finally, the guys close with emails (60:30). Check out our 2023 Ringer Fantasy Football Rankings here! Tier 1: Christian McCaffrey and Austin Ekeler (17:42) Tier 2: Bijan Robinson, Nick Chubb, Saquon Barkley, Derrick Henry, and Josh Jacobs (17:55) Tier 3: Jonathan Taylor, Tony Pollard, Rhamondre Stevenson, Joe Mixon, and Najee Harris (19:13) Tier 4: Travis Etienne Jr., Breece Hall, Kenneth Walker III, Jahmyr Gibbs, and Aaron Jones (25:50) Tier 5: J.K. Dobbins, Dameon Pierce, Cam Akers, Miles Sanders, Alexander Mattison, James Conner, and Rachaad White (38:03) Tier 6: David Montgomery, D’Andre Swift, Alvin Kamara, Isiah Pacheco, Dalvin Cook, James Cook, Brian Robinson Jr., and Rashaad Penny (42:40) Tiers 7/8/9: Everyone else (49:11) Email us! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Social: Kiera Givens Producer: Kai Grady Audio intern: Jack Sanders Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Right now on the Ringer game on feet and all throughout the entire month of August, the East Coast bias boys are getting you ready to bet the NFL this season. We're going through each and every single division and revealing our favorite futures, predicting division winners, and even giving you some award winners. Do we think the Kansas City Chiefs will repeat or will they be the throne? Tune in now to find out on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. I'm show. My name is Danny Hyford today. I am joined by Danny Kelly and Craig Whirlback.

We have updated rankings out at fantasy football.com. 200 players, upsides, downsides, bottom lines, a magic eight ball. Oh, sorry, just an eight ball. A ringer ball. Ringer ball. A non-tradmarked ball that gives you random sentences. Magic answers. Magic responses.

Fantasy football dot the ringer.com. Also programming note, we are now coming to you three days a week, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. So, boom. It's training camp time, baby. A ton has happened. The Hall of Fame game. Is this week? Same game.

Whole foot, there's a football game. A.k.a. the Josh Jacobs game is this week. The Josh Jacobs Bowl. Yeah. We've got our running back tears today. We've got quarterback tiers as our previous episode.

We've got obviously the other positions coming up. So we're going to go three days a week. We're going to get into all the running back tears. Tears is a concept, a bunch of arguments, everything. But first, some news. So much just happened since our last episode. You can tell 32 training camps are going now. Starting with the big one.

Joe Burrow. Yeah. Injured his calf. In a weird way, this isn't as, bad because if you saw the video between the diagnosis, you were like, oh my God, is this like his Achilles or like this whatever, like a knee?

So it's not that it's not bad, but when I just saw Adam Schifter, Joe Burrow, down at practice, non-contact, I was like, oh, he's done for this season. It is a calf injury, but I get, I'm getting Kevin Durant vibes here. I don't know if you remember when Kevin Durant tore his Achilles in 2019,

he heard his calf in the playoffs and then missed like three to four weeks, kind of rushed it back. Craig, I'm just saying. Oh my God. I'm just saying, don't rush them back.

I see reports that are like, should be fine by week one. And I'm like, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, I don't like that at all, Craig. I don't like that at all.

Well, so Monday afternoon, maybe I'm wrong, but as of yet, I've yet to see, they haven't said how bad the calf strain is. Like, what kind of great it is.

Like that matters to us. Well, it does, though. So Stefania Bell had a good break. down at ESPN that basically explained it for Dumbo's. And basically there's grade one, which is not that bad. I think it's like DefCon where it goes up or up is worse. I don't know.

Grade one is the best scenario where it's just like basically it hurts. Grade two is like a slight tear, which means, you know, multiple weeks. Grade three means a complete tear of the calf muscle, which is like multiple months, but also obviously structure, like it's structurally harder. And then also the more torn it is, the less Joe Burrow can do. And apparently the problem with calf injuries is when to turn. return because, and that's the Durant thing actually, Craig, that you mentioned is, when do you come back from a calf injury? And I'm just going to quote Stefaniel, because I thought it was

really interesting. Calf injuries are challenging to determine when to cut back to full health because athletes who often feel fine walking around, even jogging or running, while also demonstrating an ability to land and push off without discomfort. And yet, when they attempt to return to peak loads, explosive movements, top acceleration, or even sustained sports activity, symptoms can return. In fact, re-injury rates following calf strains and athletes are reported in sports medicine literature anywhere from 19 to 31%. I know it always sucks to boil this down to like, so what do we do with them in fantasy football? But that is what the show is about.

And he's now, this is like the weirdest spot to be in when you're considering drafting Joe Burrow. What do you do? How much do we drop him? Is he still a top five quarterback? I mean, just, I mean, I guess this is basically now just revisited the quarterback tiers where we left off. But if we were talking about whether he should be ahead of Lamar and Fields, it's you kind of automatically have to drop him to six that the lowest, I think he's no lower than,

he's probably with Herbert Lawrence now. Yeah, he's probably now with Justin Herbert and Trevor Lawrence now. And probably maybe even below those guys, depending. We'll see if he comes back. It's funny. He also never plays this month anyway because his rookie season was the pandemic, so there wasn't really a training camp. Second year is recovering from ACL.

I think he took three stamps in the preseason. Last year, he had the emergency appendectomy. Do you remember that? Oh, right. On the same date, a year early. Yeah. So that's pretty crazy. So hopefully we're not going to see Jake Browning and Trevor Simian as Bengel's quarterbacks this year.

Maybe he just hates practice. I mean, that's valid. By the way, you mentioned this hyphets. DefCon. The DefCon grade system, it's like people get it mixed up because they say, oh, DefCon, 5, like, oh, that's the big emergency. Defcon 5 is actually the lowest rate. Oh. Like it's like doesn't mean, it means the least alarming.

Yeah, it means lowest state of readiness according to the government or the Department of Defense. That's defcon one means nuclear war is imminent or has already begun. So you're saying it wrong, probably, most people, because everyone says, oh, my God, we've hit DefCon 5. Well, that's nothing. Oh, interesting. I just saw Oppenheimer. I don't think you mentioned DefCon and Oppenheimer.

Yeah, DefCon was probably invented in like the 80s or something. I don't know. Also, related, I think Jamar Chase has to drop a little bit. We'll see how much. But at the very least, it's like Justin Jefferson is now clear number one. I think Jamar Chase is now just with Tyree Kill. and Cooper Cup with my quarterback now has something where I won't be surprised that they miss a month

in their little elite receiver. Do you guys know the backup quarterback for the Bengals? Trevor Simian. Trevor Simian. Touchdown Trevor? You know what's crazy as Trevor Simian I think has started like 40 NFL games? Which I was good for like a half a season there.

Yeah, he had his little Brock Purdy moment. Had to get the Purdy thing in there. Simian never had a cult. Okay, next up here. while we're on crazy stories, dude, there's so much this happened. We recorded our last episode on Thursday, and we just kind of left off on the world was like,

oh, running back so I'm getting paid, but Sequin signed this little sugar on top, so he's going to show up, and Josh Jacobs is mad. And that was it. Jonathan Taylor tweeted, since we last recorded our episode, let me see if we can get all this right.

But basically Jonathan Taylor with the running back for the cult is in the most contentious contract negotiation I've seen in either from tomorrow or maybe since Levi-on Bell. Yeah, this is DefCon. three. It's bad. But just since Thursday, let's get this. Let me see how they get this right. So Jonathan Taylor

not been practicing for the Colts and he wants a new contract. Jim Ursay, the owner of the Colts invites Jonathan Taylor to his bus to talk. Doesn't go well. Who allowed that to happen? Supernormal man, Jim Ursay. Guy who, again, reportedly possibly was in the bathroom at Josh McDaniel's house for an hour while he was trying to get him the job. Kind of a real-in-dum-dummer situation. Do you guys remember Braveheart when they're like on the battlefield and they're like the leader guys are meeting in the middle of the field and they're trying to negotiate like a piece so everybody can go home and then like Mel Gibson goes out there. He's like, I'm going to go start a war or whatever. And he just like fucks with them.

This is like the equivalent of letting Jonathan Taylor get on that fucking bus. Like that was like immediately what are we thinking is going to happen here? It's the beginning of the war. It's the killing of Archduke Ferdinand. that's what that was. God, dude. What possibly good could come from that? Jonathan Taylor gets off the bus for cost to trade,

which I think is hilarious. Jim Ursaid pulls a Kyle Shanahan and basically says, just to justify, it says, this is like a quote, if I, Jim Merce,

owner of the cults, if I die tonight and Jonathan Taylor is out of the league, no one's going to miss us. The league goes on. We know that. The national football league rolls on. It doesn't matter who comes

and who goes. It's a privilege to be a part. of it. Eat Arby's. I mean, on one hand, this is like literally correct. On the other hand, probably a pretty bad thing to tell an employee. It's kind of a flex, though, to say that even about himself. He's like, fuck it.

I don't matter either. What's that quote? It's like the graveyards are filled with the most successful men or something like that. Yeah, there you go. I've never heard that one, but I like it, Craig. Me neither. Oh, you don't know that? Is that like a Dewee Cox?

I don't know who said that. Anyway. It's like, it's a Charles de Gaul quote. It says graveyards are full of indispensable men. or something. That's good. Yeah. Yeah, he sent a lot of guys to war.

Okay, whatever. ESPN then reports. I mean, he didn't send him. I think Hitler had more to do with it. Yeah, touche. Touche. He's French. He's French.

Oh, nice. Anyway, so Jonathan Taylor, the Colts then, once he requests a trade, the Colts say, well, Jonathan Taylor isn't practicing due to a back injury. We've determined the back. back injury was a quote non-football injury. So we might not pay a salary. That's what ESPN reports.

The cultures might not pay him. Jonathan Taylor then tweets, never had a back pain, never reported back pain, not sure who the sources are, but find new ones. Hi, Vince, I know that you don't like to break down

training camp videos. You're a big staunch disbeliever in breaking down training camp videos. However, did you see the video of Jonathan Taylor wobbling around at practice today? He looks like, he looks like an old man

who just woke up. That's exactly what I was going to say, Craig. As someone who has chronic lower back problems, he looks exactly, exactly like me when I wake up and get out of bed. And I'm like trying to bend over to like pick up my pants. Like I just, it's like you can't move. It's like he's waiting for the icy hot patch to kick in. You look like he's 40 years old and he played 27 holes of golf at a bachelor party and it's like waking up after a red eye. It's not great.

You didn't look spry. And like he, and he was in sweat. He was just in sweats, standing on the field just like walking around and did not look good. Well, there's a video of Jonathan Taylor walking, but there's all these running backs. And I'm like, where is this? I don't see his jersey. Where is he? And I'm like, oh, my God, he's that old man.

I thought he was like a coach at first. I didn't realize that that was him. I thought the same thing. I was like, I don't see him on the field. I was like, oh, he's the guy not in pads and a jersey, of course. I'm not going to lie, dude. I saw that. I'm like, no wonder they don't want to freaking pay this guy.

Yes, so they don't have to pay him. If they put him on that list, whether the NPI list or whatever. they can withhold his salary. But then if you're wondering why he's not practice, Zach Moss, one of the Colts back running backs, breaks his arm at practice Monday. So that's six weeks. Hello,

Dalvin Cook. This is going to be like Leonard Fernette or Zico Elliott leverage right here. Yeah. I was going to ask something. I was thinking about this this morning, guys, and you answer me this. Do you think Lenny or Zeke are going to feel like scabs coming in when like they sign for some team who's got their running back holding out or like

Oh, I like this. This is like right now in Hollywood, like there's these interim agreements that producers can sign to allow actors to act in their films. And some actors are like, I'm not doing that. That makes me a scab. And other actors are like, hey, I'm getting paid by an independent producer. Like, what's the big deal? It's kind of the same thing.

Right. Like, are they going to feel like they're breaking picket lines by signing with these teams that are just like refusing to pay their star running backs? I think based on how little running backs get paid anyway, I think Ezekiel Elliott and Lennon Fornet are going to take the paycheck if they can get it. I don't think they're going to consider themselves scabs. I feel like you take the job. Next man up, you know?

It's not even just about the money for those guys. It's about, I mean, Furnett was the top five pick, right? Zeke was a top five pick who was getting paid and star running back for like the biggest team in America. At some point, like, that's who you are. I mean, they're younger than us, Craig. If they don't play, they're done. Like, it's not just about the money.

It's like, oh, so you're retired. You're no longer a football player. That's a past tense thing. Like, at some point, they want to play. You know, the opportunity to play is pretty hard to turn down. What do we think it's going to happen with Taylor here? Are you guys thinking he's like done? I think he's going to play, man.

I think the larger problem for, like, we could get into the contract stuff for running back value. For fantasy stuff, it's important to remember that half the problem here is Jonathan Taylor injured his ankle in week four, came back, re-injured the ankle. He didn't look like himself last year. I mean, frankly, like wasn't fantastic. I think he also required, like when he, the cult said elite offensive line. He was elite.

When they didn't, he wasn't. I don't, I just don't love Jonathan Taylor. I think this is bad vibes. But I think he's going to play. Like he's going to play, he's going to show up. From our point of view, so we've got him, in half a year, we have him ranked 11th. We got to move him down, right? Like, there's no way we can keep in there.

Yeah. I mean, the fact that I just assumed that this was a fake, not fake, that's unfair, but I kind of thought a back injury is what you do when you have a contract issue. Jalen Ramsey had a back issue with the Jaguars when he wanted to trade. Like sometimes a bag, they're like, oh, my back. I don't want to extrapolate too much from one video, but I kind of do. Actually, I think Jonathan Taylor's back is pressed up. Like, I kind of do want to extrapolate a bit of one video, actually.

That's seven-second video I do think was extremely accurate and completely foolproof, even though I have no idea. Yeah, I got to say, depending on when your draft is, if you draft in like a week and you're like one of those groups that for some reason can only draft in early August, you could get a real discount on Joe Burrow and Jonathan Taylor. You get him for probably half price. And if they end up being healthy playing, you get a real steal. Oh, I just remembered something. This is important. So obviously athletes, if you ever like we're on a college campus, you remember this, sometimes the athletes, like, they walk really slow. Because they're, you know, in pain from all the physical.

Oh, yeah. And they got the Nike slides on and they're kind of just lumbering forward. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Do you know who actually also walked exactly like Jonathan Taylor did in that video all the time? Todd Gurley. Thanks. Not great.

That's how Todd Gurley walked. How old do you guys think Todd Gurley is? 26. 27. I Venmoed DK for the bet, Craig. He's 20. He did? He's 28.

If it's out of the blue just Venmoed me at 100 bucks. I saw ESB. remove Todd Gurley from the player pool and they keep dudes in there after like two years of retirement. So Todd Gurley is born Todd Gurley is born August 3rd, 1994 and I'm born August 2nd

1994. So Todd Gurley is literally only one day younger than me. Crazy. Maybe we could get him as an intern. It's not too late. My niece feel great. Rock on wood. All right. Speaking of which, Tim, Tim Patrick was super for the Broncos. Huge, like,

we love Tim Patrick. We've a huge sleeper last year, towards ACL last training. I was actually there towards ACL training camp in Denver. Comes back this year towards Achilles today on Monday. That is absolutely brutal. Sucks.

Yeah. Yeah. And he's not, he's, you know, he's 29 years old. Yeah. He's, so unfortunately, Tim Patrick is, you know, if he even makes it back to the NFL at all, it's pretty impressive at this point. So that sucks for Tim Patrick. So sorry for him. It does help, from a fancy point of view,

it does help us kind of like figure out the Broncos passing game a little bit more, right? Because there had been some indications, like he could end up being the highest scoring receiver on that team, you know, like out of nowhere. But now I feel like Jerry Judy, Coyland Sutton kind of solidified. They're probably not going to trade Sutton now, I would assume. Yeah. Fantasy is so funny. It's fucked up by now. No, but, you know, it is what it is.

We're playing fantasy football. It is funny. Just like your mind maybe 10 seconds in is like, man, that's awful. So Jerry Judy, though, probably, right? The craziest idea anyone, like the craziest idea anyone's ever emailed us where I'm like, I can see a world where this would happen

was someone emailed us once. You know how they have high frequency trading on Wall Street? Yeah. Yeah. Someone, someone was watching a game. I think this was last year, and Cooper Cup went down.

And someone turns to their friend who had Cooper Cup with their team. He was like, I'll give you Jerry Judy for Cooper Cup right now. Just hot. So yes. And it was like, it's high frequency insurance. But like while the guys

writhing on the ground and I'm like, this is fucked up. This shouldn't be allowed. But I'm kind of fascinated by this idea. Yeah, well, it's, we're all just. Leaches? Parasites? Bad people? I don't know. Anyway, running back tears.

Let's do this. Let's do it. All right. So tears and fears, and again, the point of tears is when you're drafting at the end of the day, Big Sikh. So we have our rankings. We have, again, fantasy football dot the mirror.com, top 200. and I would describe the difference between rankings and tiers is this. Rankings to some degree, a small degree, not completely bullshit. But when we have a guy 150th and 151st, I don't know, man.

They're the same. You could flip them. We're joking about this, but it's the truth. We have Justin Herbert and Trevor Lawrence back to back. Because we don't know, man. Tears are the buckets where we feel really strongly that these group of guys, the order within this tier, this is the order we like,

but we don't know, like one guy could finish ahead, but we'd be really surprised if the guys from the tier jump the guys in the tier above them. That's the way I think of it. It's like the buckets, you can change the order however you want,

but these tiers are kind of solid. Like these tiers, you should not be reaching for someone in a lower tier if someone in a higher tier is available. So with that said, I'm going to run through these tiers and then you guys can yell at me if you disagree.

Yeah, we're going to kind of like put them together on the fly here. Yeah, argue about the fringes. Okay. So tier one, which I'm going to just define as running backs you can draft first and no one's going to think it's weird, which is just Christian McCaffrey for the 49ers and Austin Nicolier for the Chargers. I assume we have no qualms here. No qualms. Tier two, I have a time traveler comes to you from the future and tells you these are the number one running backs this year and you're like not that surprised. And I have Bejan Robinson for the Falcons and Nick Chub for the Browns.

I think Sequin is here too. Sequin. That's fair. Sequin, we have ranked fifth. I feel like I've lost a lot of my confidence in Seekwon over the years. He was great last year. He was fantastic last year. He scored 15.9.5 pvr points per game, which is fifth.

Yeah. He was like five. He was like solid. I don't know. Fifth out of all the running backs? He was solid? I'm just saying like relative to his reputation, relative to his reputation

you know what I mean? Can we just say Fifth is something you say if you're being negative and top five relative. Relative to his reputation that he needs to finish top two? Yes.

The brand name Saquan is lofty. He should be higher than fifth I feel like I don't know. It's a name problem. James Robinson. That's like Bill Simmons

coming to us and giving us a performance review at the end of the year for our pod. And we're like, dude, we were the sixth biggest football pod of the year. Like, well. No, this is the Warriors are not a dynasty take. Yes, it is. Which I vehemently disagree with.

Based on what? Anyway, Sequin, I kind of cheated here. I had him in Tier 3, which is disgruntled contract year running backs. Sure. We happen to rank all of them next to each other. But I think it's the right order. We have Seekwan, Jonathan Taylor, Josh, Jacobs, Derek Henry, and Tony Pollard. Now, I feel like it's cheating because my question for you is, how do we separate these guys?

And I wasn't sure who should move up and who should move down. because I don't think it's unfair to group these guys together. It's funny to have Derek Henry next to Tony Pollard. I think of them as opposite players. But what leaps out to you about this group of Sequin, Jonathan Taylor, Josh Jacobs, Henry, and Tony Pollard? Derek Henry jumps out to me. Him being in this tier and him being 17th on our rankings, the eighth running back, and him being in tier two with Tony Pollard, is both, it's like cognitive dissonance.

Like, I both completely understand it and also don't at all. Derek, I think I'm now, I haven't drafted him once in my entire life. He's never been on a team of mine, I'm pretty sure. And I don't know why. I missed out on him in the first years and he was like sexy and coming up. And now for the last three years, I'm like, he's old. And every year, except that one year, he got hurt for the last eight games. Every year he, you know, proves me wrong.

Last year, Derek Henry was talking about you're disappointed in Sequin being fifth. Derek Henry was third. Yeah. He was the third best running back in fantasy. scored like 0.5 less points than Kristen McCaffrey per game. Nobody gives his shit just because he's 28 years old. Well, not just that.

Our issue with Derek Henry was always that he didn't catch passes. He had a career high receiving last year. He almost doubled his career high receiving. And he also had the second most total yards of his career. Also, he had the league high 23.9 touches per game. He was touching the ball more than any other running back. He had 400 receiving yards

last year. So to be clear, if he plays, like I think the answer is the same as it has been for three years, which is Yeah, if he plays, he'll be really good. And also there's a chance that he's going to fall off the cliff this year and you're going to be the one holding the back. It makes no sense that he's not in the tier with Nick Chubb and, well, here's the thing.

In my humble opinion. I have been saying a lot that Travis Kelsey, because Travis Kelsey and Henry, I think it's very similar arguments, right? Where like the only thing is age other than that they've been immaculate. My thing with Kelsey is hasn't missed the game in a decade for health. And there's been no decline whatsoever. and he's still the absolute best at what he does. And he's with an all-time generation.

Derek Henry's had one season where he's missed games in the last five. Yes. Here are the differences with Henry. Because part of me is wondering, like, why isn't it the same thing? Why shouldn't we move him up? Why is Derek Henry not? And I think that the difference to me is, I think Derek Henry has actually declined as a player in a noticeable way, whereas Kelsey's not.

Yeah. And the Titans are worse. It doesn't matter. Well, that's the thing. So the thing with Derek Henry is he's not, like, those, like, 90-yard runs, Like the thing with Derek Henry, you know, once every few weeks just breaks off a 90-yard run, Stiffs arms a guy and just goes for a touchdown. He hasn't done that as much.

Like that, like the reality is he's been doing volume. He's not as explosive. I think he has lost that last gear and he's been doing it on volume, but he's less efficient. Like Bill Barnwell has like nailed this, but basically 2020 and 2019, Derek Henry had like 500 rushing yards over expectation. And the last two years combined, he had like 100. So like a fifth, but DK's favorite. at number five. But he's basically the third oldest running back in football.

And that's what we're talking about here. The only guy's older than Derek Henry, like Latavius Murray, who I'm not really going to count, I don't know if he's going to make the bills. Corderole Patterson, he's not really running back. The only guy's really older than Derek Henry, we even expect to play a Rahim Moster and Jerich McKinnon. Like, that's it.

He's basically the third oldest running back in football. That's fine, but it's not like we're an uncharted territory here. I mean, there have been plenty of running backs who have succeeded at 29 years old. He's not 34 years old. You know, Derek Henry had more receiving. yards per game last year than Sequin Barclay? We should just, I feel like just looking at our rankings, we should just

switch Henry and Jonathan Taylor at this point. And it's, look, it's not like he's averaging 3.5 yards of carry. He's not like four net where they're kind of forcing it to him. He averaged 4 and a half yards of carry last year. Like, that is perfectly fine. And some of his best games last year were with Malik Willis and Josh Dobbs. So, and I think the offensive

line got better this off season. And Tannahill and Willis are probably going to be better combination than what they had last year with Dobbs and Malik. So I'm like, I don't know. I want to go back to 2019 when Craig is telling people not to buy an Aunt Derek Henry because he's old now and tell him in 2023. Craig's going to be like, why are no one buying Derek Henry? Look, the most important part about growing up is learning from your mistakes.

And I am I going to draft him? Still probably not because I'm an idiot. But I am like, I don't know what I'm doing here. He's probably just going to do the same thing. He had 1900 yards last year and 13 touchdowns. And he's healthy. He should be above Josh Jacobs. I know, swapping him and Jonathan Taylor.

What Dika just said. Literally just sounds better to me. Yeah. McCaffrey, Eccler, Bejohn, Nick Chub, Sequin, Derek Henry, Josh Jacobs, Jonathan Taylor, Tony Ballard. I like that better. Yeah. I'm doing it. I'm moving him right now.

We're going to get it updated whenever, and that's going to be the thing. Tractor Cito is back to a fringe first rounder. I like that. Hey, speaking of Tractor Cito, while we were talking, I looked up Trevor Simio on P. just to go back to what we were talking about earlier. It's a website called Pro Football Reference for people who aren't. Sorry. Just a full day.

They have never before heard of nicknames for like every player in the NFL. The Tractor Cito thing reminded me. Can you guys guess Charisimian's nicknames on Pro Football Reference? No. Touchdown Trevor. Tea Money Sizzle. T-Money Wiggle or T-DOT. These are AI generated.

That's never happened. No one's ever called him any of those names. Is it T.DOT? T-Money Sizzle. No, we can find this. You just Google that. We'll find. Isn't T-Dot

and people call the city of Toronto? I don't know. Wow, this is T-Dot. T-Money Sizzle is from Sainzweider. Bally-R-R-R-Bellar called Trevor Simeon T-D-D-Sizzle. Does Benny Fowler get to nickname a quarterback?

Well, I guess Trevor Simeon, yeah. Craig, yes, T-DOT is the city of Toronto nickname. Yeah. I just checked. He's not Canadian. Otherwise, that would have been cool. Also, I learned recently that all Americans say Toronto wrong.

Yeah, isn't it like Toronto? French. You're not supposed to say Toronto. Yeah. Anyway. See, my New York accent for once is right. Toronto? I think that's close.

I actually don't remember exactly how you're supposed to say it, but not Toronto. Yeah, just an absolute banner day for international knowledge on this podcast. Okay. Tier four, I'm defining this as running back suit with sex appeal guys who are like, could be really good in fantasy this year. but if a time traveler came back and told you this guy was the number one running back this year, you'd be a little surprised. And you'd probably have a bunch of questions.

Yeah, you'd be like, what? Yeah, I don't know if you're really a time traveler. Or maybe you're just crazy. Yeah, Ramonjo Stevenson for the Patriots at 10. We've got Joe Mixing for the Bengals at 11, Nagee Harris for the Steelers at 12. Travis, ETN for the Jaguars at 13. Breece Hall for the Jets of 14. Kenneth Walker for the Searx at 15.

Jamir Gibbs at 16. Aaron Jones at 17. Kenneth Walker leaps off the page. Kenneth, yeah, it is. I think this all makes sense. but Kenneth Walker for the Seahawks. Kenneth Walker is now week to week with a groin injury. And then his backup, Zach Sharbide,

the other second rounder they drafted this year's now missed two practices and a row of the shoulder injury. So what the hell do we do with the Seahawks? Why are the Seahawks when he makes always freaking hurt, TK? Kenny McIntosh time, baby. DJ Dallas. Yeah, that's not great. It's definitely not good for Charbonnet in particular

because he's just getting into the team. You know, this is pretty important time in terms of being on the field and learning everything. So missing time right now is tough. that happened. If you go back to like Rashad Penny, when he started with the CX, I believe he broke his finger,

like right before training camp or in training camp and just throws your like career arc off, off kilter for like a while. It feels like when you have these early injuries. So it sucks for Sharbonnet. I will say Pete Carroll, it's impossible or like he never says anything.

You can't trust what he says about injuries ever. However, he did say is basically like, well, here's what he said. It was like, and I'm paraphrase, He was like, is a little tweak. We're just being extra cautious with it.

It's not a big deal. Like, we're just not letting it. I'd love a coach to say it's a huge deal. We're terrified. When Carol says it's a pretty significant injury or like it's legit, like, he uses the word legit, that means like your career might be over. He did not use this with either of these guys for as far as I can remember. What do you mean legit?

Like a legit injury or they're legit back? No, if he says the word legit, yeah, like he said like a couple times, that's pretty legit injury. Like, that's bad. Well, that's like his tell. It's the Oreos and Rounders, but it's for Pete Carroll saying legit. I think so. I might be misremembering, but Seac fans hit me up, whatever his tell is.

But yeah, it sounds like this Kenneth Walker thing is just precautionary. The Charbonnet thing is a little more worrisome. But yeah, it's not great for the Seahawks. This definitely makes both of those guys a little bit more questionable. Groyne injuries, I don't like those. Like those are, those seem to be like really finicky and come back really frequently. Yeah. I mean, that's why Pete Carroll said it's important to keep them, keep them out because they don't want it to re-injure later.

And it's like, it's the kind of thing. Like when you have a guy who's tweaked his groin, you're like, oh, great. Out for three weeks. And then he comes back. It can like, it's just, I don't know, running back stuff to use their freaking legs. Also, the entire thing with Kenneth Walker is being explosive. You don't want him of leg injury. So that and then combine that with Breeze Hall for the Jets.

It sounds like the Jets are going to maybe signed Dalvin Cook. We'll see. Aaron Rogers gave back $35 million. which is insane. But basically, sounds like he wishes he could have Devante Adams back, but he'll settle for Dalvin Cook. We don't know what's going to happen,

we'll see. But I think between the fact that it seems like they're waiting to sign Dalvin Cook and Hard Knocks, the Jets wanted Jemir Gibbs in the draft, I am ready to just take the what's out of frame here as the Jets don't think Brise Hall is going to be as healthy or ready for a workload as we all do. And I kind of feel like you have to move Briece Hall down.

Even if they didn't sign Dalvin Cook, the fact that they're talking about it to me, when they already have a decent depth chart, running back. Like, I don't think they're envisioning the same workload for Breece Hall. So I don't know. Like, if the Jets do sign Dalvin Cook, are we really going to keep Breece Hall in this, in this freaking tear?

I've, I've been saying, I think, all along. Like, it just feels like Bruce Hall is too high. I don't, I understand that, like, his knee injury was less severe and less, like, problematic in terms of, like, the number of ligaments and the way that it was ripped off or whatever. Like, his injury is not as bad as some of these other guys, like the Javante Williams or

Jay Davins. style injuries where you're pulling multiple ligaments and tearing your quad like jk jadaimus did however i still am like there's a pretty strong chance this is going to like affect his ability to cut and change direction he's running 23 miles an hour i don't care that's straightforward like running back to turn running backs have to like turn you know what i mean which is the reason it's you have an acl it's so i don't know he's always look to me and i and if you look at our like individual rankings I've got them quite a bit lower than you guys. It just, I don't know.

I just don't have great feel for it. And I don't like it. It feels too high. It feels like a big gamble that high, especially with all the other stuff that's kind of happening with the Jets right now. This tier in general feels like you should give the bottom half of it

to the tier below and the top half to the tier above. It almost feels like you could just disappear this tier. Like I don't think Remandre Stevenson and Kenneth Walker should be in the same tier personally. That's what's, So I think weird about running back this year.

And that's why the quarterback to me was so clear. Running back this year, it's weirder. So, I mean, McCaffrey Neckler is really clear. And then that second tier, we talked about a Bijan, Nick Chubb, Sequin. That makes sense. Derek Henry, should he be in there? But that's just kind of a litmus test in Derek Henry. You're kind of like, no, the age.

Or like, yeah, he's Derek Henry. Why would you put him behind freaking Sequin? But then Jonathan Taylor there. Maybe we just cut it at Jonathan Taylor. But then having Josh, like, Josh Jacob should probably be in that tier too. And maybe it's Jonathan Taylor, Tony Pollard. Ramondre, Joe Mixen, Naja, E.TN is like a tier. And then it's like, Breeshall, Ken Walker, Gibbs, Aaron Jones begins the next group.

Yeah, because Breast Walker, Gibbs, and Aaron Jones are all guys who are kind of like in this, like, timeshare situation when all the guys above him, like, Harris and Joe Mixin and Ramondrey are all, like, three down guys. Yeah. I was going to say that, like, Romandre, Mixon, Harris all feel like the same tier to me. Like, they're all similarly styled guys, like, in particular. in theory, they're all going to be, quote, unquote, three down workers for their team.

And then I guess ETN, maybe, I don't know. And I would say ETN's like in the next tier down because, you know, last year they used them a lot, but like this year they drafted a guy. It's unclear exactly how that rotation is going to think, shake out. I think ETN and Kenneth Walker have a lot of similarities. And so like I would put them in the same tier.

So I probably just have that little short tier of Stevenson, Mixen, Harris. Ramandre, I think, is where we, I feel like we barely talk about Ramonja recently, but basically Remangio Stevenson for the Patriots. I like him a lot, I sure. Remandre, Liz Lozzi ad ESPN had this. Ramonj is the first running back

in the history of the New England Patriots to have 200 carries and 50 catches in a single season. So the flip side is he tweaked his knee in the middle of the year. I think they overused him. And I think the reason they keep working at running backs. They worked out Zeke. They worked out Furnette is I don't think they want to give him that full workload. But he's clearly their best running back.

And again, I think that what I think is the similarity between the Patriots and the Jaguars. I don't think I'll say this very much, but upgrade an offense for the Patriots of going from Matt Patricia as the freaking offensive coordinator to Bill O'Brien is going to be, to me, even if you know it's happening

the most underrated thing this year, like you cannot quantify a fucking real defensive coordinator trying to cosplay as an offensive guy and now you're getting a guy who's like, Bill O'Brien's doing an offense since Matt Patricia was born. That to me is amazing.

Even if Patricia had been on the offensive side of the ball, which he wasn't, like Bill O'Brien's been doing this forever. That would have been Patricia's first year doing it. You know what I mean? Like, experience matters in terms of sequencing and reacting on the fly and all that stuff. It's like a very difficult job.

So yeah, I think this is, it is like the upgrade going from Urban Meyer to Doug Peterson. The NFL futures are out and now's the time to get in on the action early this season. And right now, New Fandle Sportsbook customers can get a $100 in bonus bets guaranteed when you place your first $5 bet. my family's not very happy with me, but I would recommend betting the under on the Giants

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When you make your first $5 bet, go to fandle.com slash ringer fantasy to sign up today. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem called 1-800 gambler or visit the ringer.com slash RG. First online, real money wager only, $10 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non-mustrable bonus bets, which expires seven days after receipt, restriction supply, see terms at sportsbook. Fendell.com. Okay, so to be clear here, we're going to say, we're going to basically going to tweak

from the top. We've got Echler McCaffrey number one. Tier two we're going to call, basically, you wouldn't be surprised if they were number one overall. Bejan, Nick Chubb, Sequin, and Derek Henry. Are we going to put Derek, are we going to put Josh Jacobs in that group? I mean, we probably should, right? Yeah.

I think that's okay. I think that actually makes sense. All right. So that's seven guys. And then tier three is going to be guys who were basically like, all right. I mean, I'd be a little surprised if they were number one overall. And we're going to start that with Jonathan Taylor, Tony Pollard, Ramandre Stevenson, Joe Mixon, Najee, Travis Etienne.

I'd say I would end it at Najee, personally. ETN, I understand that he doesn't catch passes as much as he thinks, because ETN's a cool name and you think ETN would catch passes. However, I just think the Jaguars are the team, like the Jaguars seem like the Rocketship team to me. Trevor Lawrence in third season, which is really like a second year leap under a full off season with Doug Peterson. Like, the Jaguars to me seem like a team where it's like, yeah, but ETN might just be like this incredibly talented running back on a team that's going to score a shitload. Yeah, but I think to me, again, the distinction between these two tiers is Najee, Mixin, Stevenson, the guys all above an ETN.

Those guys don't have what we think are going to be like big, heavy rotations in the backfield. when you get to ETN, Brees Hall, Kenneth Walker, the next three guys, Jemir Gibbs and Aaron Jones, all those guys are in a rotation, 1A, 1B. You know what I mean? Like a heavy rotation, probably. So to me, that's the tier is like these guys are super volume, almost guaranteed. And you don't see Travis Eton is super volume? Well, I think that there's a big enough question mark.

And that's why I've comped ETN and Walker as like some very similar style players because they both are questionable in the passing game and both of their teams drafted running backs to ostensibly like do. more for the offense and like take take some pressure off of both of those guys. For the Jags, it was Tank Bigsby and for the Seaxos, it was Charbonne. I'm okay to put him in the end of group below. That's a hard one for me and I disagree, but I not, like, because no matter, no matter how you cut it, that's hard.

Like, that's a really good rationale. Like, it's weird for me to separate ETIN from Naji when you could argue to me that, but you're right. Like, that really is what we're talking about of talent in a probably reduced work. That's probably, yeah, you're probably exactly right. It's like ATN, Brees Hall, Ken Walker, and Gibbs, we're all saying the same thing, which is these guys are really, really talented in a time share. So yeah, okay, that actually makes a ton of sense. I mean, and like, to be clear, I love all these guys.

Like, talent-wise, I think all these guys are extremely, extremely good. Well, and that's the reality of it is that all those guys are probably better talent-wise than Joe Mixen and Naji Harris. Seriously. Yeah, seriously. And fantasy, you know, running back is about volume more than anything. Mm-hmm. Okay, so this makes sense And Aaron Jones is in that tier

I think Aaron Jones is going to be the Glansberg of the year There's 100%. Have we even mentioned him at all in the last like month? By the way, Aaron Jones like top 15, top 12 running back last year He was 12 in points per game. Just quietly, just being good. Seriously. Yeah. Okay, so tier five,

Are we officially in the dead zone? Is this the dead zone or no? Well, yeah, probably because I think that spiritually what the dead zone is is when you have to like project volume for someone that you don't actually know it's going to shake out. and that's probably how this is, which is tier five. These are like true starting running backs in that they are the starter,

but we have questions either about their health, whether they're going to hold on to this role, their offense, etc. So we have J.K. Dobbins for the Ravens, Damien Pierce for the Texans, Camakers for the Rams, a.k. George Costanza. Miles Sanders for the Panthers, Alex Madison for the Vikings, James Connor for the Cardinals, Rashad White for the Bucks. Yeah.

This is tough, too. And the dead zone, you know, also is in reference to, like, You'd just rather take other positions when you're coming up with these guys in the draft. Like if you're looking at some of the receivers in this area, Keenan Allen, Tyler Lockett, Drake London, Terry McLaurin, Jerry Judy, Christian Watson. Like some of these guys could be superstars. And then instead of taking those, in terms of fantasy, instead of taking those, you're taking a guy who like, Jackie Tauben's like, we don't even know if he's going to even start the year.

You know what I mean? Yeah, these are the guys that these running backs, I think, are the guys that have the loosest. like from our preseason perspective these are the guys where it's easiest to like transport two months in the season and see how they like went down the down arrow like oh Alex Madison wasn't actually that good and the Vikings have like three really weirdly

freaky athletic running backs behind him and like yeah it's like he's not actually useful like James Connor like yeah the Cardinals are tanking they don't really care about how they're 28 year old running backs doing they want to like see other I don't know it's like there's all these past to like you know oh yeah right they're not in contention bucks I don't totally agree

but the buccaneers are projected by Vegas of the second fewest points in the entire NFL. I can see Rashad White not doing great with Kyle Trasker, Baker Mayfield. Like, it's not hard to envision all these, except for Camakers, who as long as he keeps trying to quit, will keep getting promoted and more work. But other than that.

Yeah. Now he's gaining weight, which is always a good thing at running back. This is a weird tier. This is a very weird tier. Yeah, this is the zero RB tier. This is when you start your draft with like one quarterback, three receivers and a tight end.

And now you're like, well, I need a running back. I guess I'll take one of these guys. Right. Because they're almost more likely to be starters in real life than they are on your fantasy team. Should J.K. Dobbins move up, even though he's not actually at practice?

Well, okay, if we want to talk about ceiling, the ceiling of these running backs, who has the biggest ceiling? J.K. Dobbins, Cam Acres, Miles Sanders? I think the highest ceiling, like, again, if you're like one of these guys is top 10, I think it has to be

J.K. Dobbins actually just catching passes from Lamar Jackson and a real offense and being like a real running back for a Ravens offense that looks completely different or Camakers to me on a Rams team where the Rams the offense is like probably average but because their defense is so bad the Rams that up top five in yards top five in points top five and everything

and Camakers just ends up punching in a bunch of touchdowns because the Rams are just like last year's Vikings or lions where they're in a shootout every single week. So I personally, I agree with that and then I would add James Connor to this list. I think I personally would have Connor above a lot of these guys. But the team, but serious question, how good can he be on a team like Arizona where it's like, it doesn't seem like they're making a serious attempt to try to move the ball in the year of our Lord 2020.

This is why tanking is always weird to me in the NFL because, number one, there's just not that many games. And number two, all these guys are still trying to put out good tape and they're still trying to play hard. Like, even if the organization itself is tanking, like all these players are going to try hard. You know what I mean? And to me, I look at it with James Connor. The volume is not guaranteed, of course, but there's a strong probability he's going to get a ton of volume in this office because who else do they have? And he's a good player and he's done it before. I think also Kyler might come back earlier than everyone's like kind of thinking he's going to come back.

I think a lot of people have the idea that Kyler's just going to sit out the whole year. But, you know, I think he's going to be competitive and come back earlier. And so I don't know. To me, I'm not saying that this offense is going to be good by any means, but I still think Connor's, going to get a ton of volume. He's going to be involved in the passing game. He's shown the ability to play in the passing game. And I'd rather take him than like a Madison or or an Acres or something.

You know, like I just feel more confident about it. Yeah, you'd rather have James Connor than this. I don't, I disagree. I'd rather have Madison and Acres. He's just a, he's boring, but I think he's going to get a ton of volume in both on the ground and in the passing game. Regardless, they're in the right tier together. Yeah.

So, okay, so I think we don't actually disagree. Well, I'm not saying I disagree. I'm just saying I think he has a higher ceiling than maybe some of these other guys. guys, but just depends on a lot of stuff. All right. So tier six, I have talented players and or names in good situations, but big question marks. So I have David Montgomery, who replaced Jamal Williams in Detroit.

So he's, in theory, replacing Jamal Williams, led the league in rushing touchdowns last year. But he's playing with Jemir Gibbs. Also, Amon Raus St. Brown was tackled. How many times inside the five-yard line? Seven? A lot. A lot.

So, you know, I don't know if David Montgomery. Yeah. Yeah, we can't just plug in to David Montgomery for, you know, 18 rushing touchdowns. DeAndre Swift is in this tier for the Eagles. Alvin Camara, who is meeting with Roger Goodell soon and, you know, might get suspended. We'll see. Isaiah Pacheco, who's, you know, was helping the Chiefs win the Super Bowl, but he had

labrum and hand surgery. So we don't know where he's at. Alvin Cook, we don't know where he's going to play. James Cook, Dalvin's brother with the bills, Brian Robinson for the Washington commanders and then Rashad Penny also on the Eagles. I'm glad one of you added Penny up into this tier. Penny was in the tier below. I made a comment saying there's no way you can put him in Swift in different tiers.

I think so I'm looking at this group. I would say obviously Dalvin Cook needs to find a team. So that is a big question mark. But like otherwise I think you can all project a pretty solid amount of playing time for all these guys, which is different from what you could say of the next tier. I don't know. To me, and I like the talented players good situations thing too because like I think David

Montgomery is probably underrated here, at least where I would have him. I think the DeAndre Swift, Rashad Penny share question is a legit one and how that's going to all shake out. That's the reason that they're lower than maybe they should be or will end up being. So I don't know. This tier actually makes a lot of sense to me. I don't have like a ton of notes about it. You said it perfectly.

It's talented players in good situations, but you kind of have no idea whether it's their health, whether it's their competition, how it's going to shake out or it's an off-the-field thing. Yeah, these are the players where you're trying out smart people. Like, let's be honest. Like when you're actually in a draft and you're in an auction and you're paying for these guys like a salary cap league or you're in a draft and you're just like, oh, in the ninth round, I take Alvin Camara. You know what I mean? Or Isaiah Pacheck, you're like, I have the running back for the chiefs. You know what I mean? Or like Rashad Penny or Swift.

You're like, I'm trying to hit a home run. Like I have like a two-0 count and I'm going to try to put this over the fence. It's kind of like desperation drafting. It's like when you spent like $110 on Justin Jefferson and Devante Adams and you're like, man, I need to make some magic here with $8 in round 9 at running back. And you're like

James Cook, this is the year of James Cook. That's a good way of framing it, Craig. I'm thinking I'm looking at it right now. I'm like, this is your absolute last chance to get an RB2. Like if you don't get an RB2 in this range, you are really, there's a lot of question marks going into your season. This is the last

pay before you have to pray. Right. That's right. What do you guys? I have a question because we haven't talked about this guy at all, but what's the vibe on James Cook? I feel like we haven't mentioned his name one time. There's so much camp hype around him. It feels like there always is. What do you do with the bill?

Like the bill's backs like are just like, have not given us anything lately, you know? Do you remember when Patrick Mahomes, they started doing the two high thing to Patrick Holmes and a bunch of other quarterbacks and it broke their brain? And like, the answer was, well, they're conditioned to throw it deep and be aggressive.

And you're like, so check down. And they're like, and you're like, how is this going on for? long. How did this go on for two months where it's like, hey, Pat, check it down. And it's like, because he's hardwired in his, his entire life he got here by being aggressive and doing like the most high leverage possible thing downfield. And that's why he is who he is. That's like the story of Russell Westbrook's career is what you just said. Yes. Just like, hey, Russ, why don't you move without the freaking ball? And it's like,

I don't know. He never did. It's like, so I look at Josh Allen. And you're like, oh, James Cook in theory is like a perfect fifth of this offense, a dump off option. And like, you know, like he'd be like an incredible versus hell piece. For like, I don't know, Philip Rivers, he might be a fucking second round pick and fantasy James Cook. But he plays with Josh Allen. And like, I don't see how they're going to get Josh Allen to check the ball down to James Cook, man.

This is like a wife buying her husband, like cool clothes and like good clothes and nice looking clothes, like well-fitted clothes. And then him just wearing his cargo shorts every day anyway. Like he just refuses to put him on. Josh Allen's just never going to check down. He just refuses to like accept what the coaching staff and what the front office wants him to do. So nice shirt, honey, do I have to iron it? Are you speaking from experience as you sit there in your blue t-shirt?

No. Okay. No. I'm just saying like, you know how like women try and dress up? They're poorly dressed men. A tail is old as time. Yeah. Sometimes they just, it just doesn't take.

I like what I like. They just refuse to fucking wear like good clothes. Dad, you know there's better coffee. out there than Starbucks coffee. I like what I like. Okay. Email us at ringer fantasy football at gmail.com if you know what kind of clothing James Cook is.

Stubborn dads. I want stubborn dad emails. Yeah, stubborn dads only. You know every dad has like a t-shirt that has like pain on it, but they wear it around the house. Oh, my dad literally, high fits. My dad came over this week, or this weekend, and he was telling me about how he's wearing my state tournament

shirt from 2001. Hell yeah. Dad's like tattered, like falling apart. Literally 22 year old shirt. He's just wearing it still. Get a new shirt. T-shirts like are $7. Nope.

No, they want like their son's old P.E. shirt. You just look like a hobo at this point. Like wear a nice shirt. Also, if you are not a stubborn father, email so ringer fantasy football at gmail.com, You got your parents, your dad, probably, a very nice Christmas gift or birthday gift that they're like, oh, my God. And they just don't use.

My brother and I got my mom Birkenstocks like two or three years ago. And she just opens them up. And she's like, I'm not wearing these. And we're like, mom, they're cool. They're very comfortable. Like these were very popular. She's like, I remember when they were popular when I was younger, but like, I'm not wearing these. Okay.

Sticking with her hocus. This is the Josh Allen. Yeah, I'm not doing that. James good. All right. Tier 7, we have guys that might get work. Khalil Herbert for the Bears, AJ Dylan for the Packers.

We just have the old classic back-to-back, Giovante Williams and Samadjiapiroin for the Broncos, because who knows. Antonio Gibson for Washington, Damon Harris for the Bills, Jamal Williams for the Saints now, Deonti Foreman, also for the Bears. Zach Charboning for the Seahawks.

So if these guys get a lot of volume, they could be really good. we'll just like, what's the breakdown of the backfield? Yeah. And I feel like all these guys. I think all these players are good, but it's just unclear exactly how the volume is going to shake out. Literally today on Twitter,

there was word Deontay Foreman was taking snaps ahead of Khalil Herbert in the Chicago backfield. At the end of the day, it might not matter because Justin Fields is going to steal like 100-something carries. So I don't know. Yeah, these are just guys that were very uncertain about like, the actual volume that's going to happen. AJ Dillon did not look good last year.

Jamante Williams has an injury. Samajai P. Rine. The exact replica of Mike Davis coming in. No, he's not. I love Samajai P. Run. Exactly. Well, that's not, no, but he's going later. That's true. But I'm just saying, like, he's like a veteran that's never really done much. And then

we're just projecting volume on him, I guess. Yeah, like, is P. Rine kind of just the same thing as Alexander Madison? I get that you're getting him for much cheaper, and that's why he's valuable. But that's kind of a similar vein. Yeah. I think he's a,

no, the difference is that the, first of all, so what you're saying is basically like Samajipur and filled in for Joe Mixen and when he did, he was like a top two running back in fantasy. And then Alex Madison's filled in

and been like top 10. And so, well, back up with the job now, that means he's good. With Madison, it's like, what,

half his games were against the lines anyway. He's not an explosive guy. I, I forget the exact stat, but Madison's like 400 touches or 400 carries and like almost none of them have gone for 20 yards. Like, he's just not an explosive guy.

I think the difference is B-Rond actually has, like, a really good skill set. I think the difference is, Javante Williams is, will be fully healthy. You guys are awkward silences. You guys are like, wow. Yeah. I mean, that's, isn't that kind of what I said? He's just like the same thing, but cheaper.

All right, well, I was really deflating for me. It's okay. All right. Moving on. He's like off-branded Alexander Madison. That's sad. Tier 8, we have hot. I just, this is basically hand. handcuffs that won't be useful unless someone gets hurt. Low upside veterans that will maybe have a high floor,

but even if someone does get hurt, still wouldn't be that good. And then just total dart throws. These are like, these are just sneaky waiver guys. These are guys like week four. Someone's going to pick this guy up and he's going to be a starting running back for like seven weeks.

And we don't know who and we probably can't know who. But Tyler Algier, who if anything happens to bejean on the Falcons, Tyler Algier was incredible. DeVon Chain. Literally put up a thousand yards last year. Yeah. Yeah.

But just now is behind a, you know, top-ton pick and Bijon. Devon A chain for the Dolphins, it's like he's very small. He's very fast. It's like if he gets to touch, he can be explosive. Kendry Miller, rookie running back for the Saints. You know, Jamal Williams is old. Cameras, maybe he gets suspended. Elijah Mitchell, if McAfre gets hurt, Elijah Mitchell will be incredible,

but Elijah Mitchell is also injury-prone. Devin Singletar is just on the Texans. What are you going to do with that? What do I do with that? Jack McKin's on the Chiefs. It's like, you know, he hit, what, eight rushing, receiving touchdowns in the final couple months. It's like, oh, it's been red on the roulette table nine times in a row. I'm just going to put a bunch of money in red, you know, you'll feel dumb.

Zeke Elliott will see where he signs or he moster for the dolphins, Jeff Wilson for the dolphins, Jaylon Warren or the Steelers. Like, these are all just like guys. Jerome Ford, the guy behind Chubb. Yeah. Yeah. Tank Bigsby behind E.T.N. Tide Shailner in Minnesota.

It's just, these are all like just backup guys that we'll probably have better thoughts on as they get in a camp. But for right now, people aren't drafting these guys in July right now. Like, is there any one of these guys that catches your eye? I think Zeke, if he went to like the chargers and just kind of like took goal line work from Eckler, something like that could be crazy. But or the Buccaneers. Zeke has been in, he's been in New England the last couple days. Yeah.

Having dinner and hanging out. Sounds like he might want to sign in New England. That would be, would that be good or bad for Ramadre in your guys's view? Horrific. Bad. I guess so How could that be good? Because he's washed

He's gonna get all the goal line work He's gonna play He's gonna get goal line touches and block I don't know To me that like number one The fact he's still a free agent Says a lot about how the league looks at him Number two

Last time we saw him he was pretty slow Pretty washed I guess how could it be better My point is my point is Having an old washed guy As your backup is actually good for the starter he's not going to like threaten to take your job.

Does that make sense? Like they're always going to rotate guys. I think it depends on the skill set. I think the difference is that Zique is like coaches love Zique because he does all the little things right. Like he's an incredible blocker. Like you just like a pros pro with like all the little details. And so that's like for example, for Mondrae fumbles. Ramonj has had some fumbleitis at times.

I know. I think it's the Patriots. It's like you know doesn't fumble Zik. That's a good point. That's good point. The one guy that stands out to me here besides Zique is. Devon A-Chain and I checked. I'm actually the lowest,

shockingly, on A-Chain. What am I doing? I got to move them up, like two or three tiers here. I feel like A-chain is, especially if they don't have to sign Dalvin Cook, A-chain really stands out tiered as a guy who could be much more,

much more valuable than any of the other guys in this tier. Yeah, he feels like a, you know, he's not going to get a lot of touches, but the touches he does get will be quite efficient and explosive in the Miami offense. The guys who stand out to me are, I mean, if I could draft one of these guys, guys and I want an upside, I'm probably getting Elijah Mitchell, right? I mean, Elijah Mitchell might be a

flex play even with Christian McCaffrey healthy. Right, right. And if Christian McAfrey goes out, Elijah Mitchell is immediately a top 10 guy. He's kind of like best of both worlds. Obviously, health is a huge concern, but I mean, I don't think they're going to be giving Christian McCaffrey 25 touches a game. In fact, I feel like everybody in this tier is actually a little bit interesting. Kendrae Miller is another interesting one for the Saints. We just don't know exactly what his role is going to be like, but especially if Camara misses four to six games or whatever, whatever people are believing it's going to be, you know, he could come in and like take over in that backfield early on. So he's another guy that's very interesting. We should watch during preseason.

Also, like, why are we no longer, what about at Jerich McKinnon? We're just kind of out? So I think that the reality is no one else to do with the Chiefs because everyone's kind of just done shy. It's like, I don't know, like the beginning of the Kentucky Derby, you don't know who's going to end up where. It's like Pacheco is the leader. seventh round running back, but like not a pass catcher, or at least not refined. Is that fair to say, DK? And meanwhile, McKinnon was the opposite of like he's like, like he's like to show on Livingston. It's like two knee reconstructions, but like on a short term basis, he can do everything.

And McKinnon is like clearly receiving back and Pacheco could inherit that from him. Dude, the thing I keep wondering about is the biggest freaking value here, Clyde, Edward Zillair. I know. I keep coming back to Clyde. At the end of the day, Jerk McKinnon, I love him and he's really fun. but he's a good story. Derek McKinnon, like, I thought his career was going to be over.

I mean, Jared McKinnon missed, he signed a deal with the Niners. Jerich McKinn straight up missed the entirety of 2018 and 2019. And then went to the Niners and played, you know, didn't do a ton. He had like 80 carries. So in three years, he had 80 carries.

And then doesn't really do much for the Chiefs last in 2021. And then at 30 years old last year, just as like a top two running back for the final couple months. But at the end of the day, he's still going to be 31 this year. Again, functionally per touch, like the oldest running back in football. And then Pacheco, who's still a seventh rounder coming off two separate surgeries. I'm kind of like, Clyde Edwards-Alear is free. The Siren song is playing again for Clyde O'Lare-Sillera.

But he's like, this is a guy. I'm just saying, like, if you look at like this list, like, who could leap out. Clyde's the guy. And the other one at Roshan Johnson's to the Bears. I think he's really good. He's like the opposite of a normal running back. He was like, what was he? He was a quarterback in high school.

And then Texas recruited him to be a running back. Or they converted him or something. I believe when he came in, they had injuries at the running back position. And so he switched to running back. And he was pretty good right off the bat. Then they recruited Bejohn Robinson to Texas. Right, exactly. Then they landed Bejohn and he was like, well, I guess I'm going to go back to the bench.

Rocheon's huge. He's really talented, didn't play a ton. But the things that rookies usually have to adjust. two are like receiving and blocking. And Rochon's like really good at that stuff. And so he might be a running, the rare rookie running back that can kind of come out and maybe like, because Khalil Herbert and Deonté Foreman, that's not their special to either. Right.

Herbert, I think, really struggled in the passing game last year. So that, that is to me where Rochon could really establish himself early on as like on passing downs. And that also means you didn't have to get as much volume, you know? So he's definitely an interesting one. But again, that running back group is going to just be, the volume is going to be, the volume is going to be siphoned off by Justin Fields probably. So it kind of hurts anyone's value in that backfield.

All right. Overall, the button all this up, generally, how do you guys feel about running back this year? Do you want like one and then you'll just scrounge for a second one? Like as a starter? Or do you want to just grab two up top?

Because you suddenly can get Josh Jacobson like the second round or Derek, you know, I'm definitely not. I'm not grabbing one in the first round. I'm going to maybe grab a second round or third rounder. I'm going to get somebody in the Tony Pollard to Travis ETN range. A Pollard, a Ramandre Stevenson.

an NADN ATN and I'm going to wait again and I'm going to get like a Cammakers and a Miles Sanders and I'm going to ride with that. Yeah, that's kind of my gut too, Craig, is a receiver or Kelsey in the first and then figure out some combination of running backs in the second, third, fourth, fifth or whatever. There has been a lot of talk that there is no running back dead zone anymore

because people are essentially taking a bunch of receivers earlier now and pushing all the running backs down. And so we'll see how the drafts all. shakeout, but that's like what's happening in best ball and things like that. Like receivers are just going quite a bit higher now. Are we close to the pivot? Is the pivot going to come back where it's like actually,

you know, Austin Echler is the right pick? You should get a first round running back. Well, the entire thing, of course, the entire thing hinges on whether they're healthy or not, because, like, to be clear, if Echler and McCaffrey, like, play 17 games, they're probably the right pick. The entire reason we're ranking these other receivers is that

I mean, Jefferson's different, but like the main reason you're taking Jim March Chase over McCaffrey, if you are, is because Chase is historically a better bet to stay healthy than McCaffrey or Echler. But if McCaffrey and Echler are better, they're probably like a better fantasy pick if they're healthy. You just don't, can't bet on that. It's also math.

It's like a running back's touching the ball, ideally 400 times and a receiver like 150. You're more likely to get hurt because you're touching the ball twice as much. Yeah, and if you miss out on all the top bar receivers, you can still go get Tyler Lockett's and Mike Williams and they'll be just fine. You can't say the same for running back when you're trying to draft, you know, Kaleel Herbert. That is not exactly a sure thing.

Like that's how our Lockett even is. All right. You guys want to do some emails? Let's do it. Emails. Patrick. Patrick. So we've been talking about pre-internet stuff, pre-internet bullshit, basically.

This from Patrick. I think the wildest part of the pre-internet era was how just absolutely okay we all were. We're just not knowing the answers to questions. This is something that Craig has said a couple times. This is so true. like and Patrick's like if you recognize an actor as a guest star and a sitcom and you don't remember what their name is or who they're where they're from you're like oh well okay and you're wondering what's the name of the first ACDC album tough luck you might find out a year later yeah it's like

who you're trying to remember who are the most single season passing arts before Dan Marino he's like I don't lucky if you even remember the question yeah I would argue that that for parents for dealing with your parents it's actually that that was a better time than now. Because now, back in the day, if you're talking to your dad or your grandpa or something, and they can't remember something, they just have to let it go and move on. Now, they pull out their phone and they go, wait, hey, Siri, who is the lead actor in criminal minds? And you're like, dad, it doesn't matter. This has nothing to do with the story. I actually think it was better back then. Craig's take his stories are worse now.

Yeah, they are. This is a Pete Holmes joke, the comedian. I don't know if you guys have ever seen his stand-up or his show. But it was like a joke about Tom Petty. It was like, back in the day, you just walked down the street and you'd be like, where's Tom Petty from? And you'd be like, well, I'll never know. And then just like a year later, you're at a party. And somebody's like, oh, I grew up with Tom Petty in Florida.

You're like, Florida. Tom Petty's from Florida. Well, it's like we used to look up to God and now we looked down at our phones. Well, yeah, there's no sense of discovery anymore. Like, his point was like the Tom Petty discovery. actually like brings you joy. And now it's like you have such immediate gratification that like nothing gets you excited anymore. Patrick's email also mentions that you could buy encyclopedias, which is funny.

But it reminded me that Friends episode where Joey wants an encyclopedia to be smart, but he can't afford it. So he just gets the letter V. And he starts trying to like start conversations about like volcanoes. Oh man. Did you guys have like encyclopedias when you were growing up? That was absolutely not a thing anymore, right? Correct.

Wikipedia. Dude, the funniest era ever is when teachers were like, no Wikipedia. Meanwhile, the bottom of a Wikipedia page just has links to all the best sources on the internet. It's a full reference page. Now it's no AI. Yeah, it's like, guess what? They're going to end up using the AI. They're going to use the Wikipedia.

I got a spoiler. It's actually the teachers don't not handle Wikipedia. The teachers don't have to handle the AI yet. The adults. Stories are worse now. That's a good take. Matthew He says

You used to have to call the movie theater And listen Oh my God Read all the times That each movie was playing during the weekend I forgot about that That's a really good one That is a really good one

I totally have done that before And I had not thought about that For probably about 25 years Holy shit you call and listen to the movie times Ha ha ha I love that one I have like a vague memory Of this thing

that was like so this reminds me that's similar as like you call the like for instance I grew up in Bellingham the Mount Baker snow line where like tell you how many new inches of snow they got and you'd like listen to the recording from every morning like man you can just go on the internet now and look at the fucking website it's crazy no excitement anymore we got a crazy we got a perfect one pre internet era okay peter writes in to say that he Twitter or Zwitter Whatever I don't know what the call was thing anymore But obviously spreads things now But pre-internet DK you're gonna have to

We're gonna lead on you for this one The fact that every elementary school kid Learned and believed that Marilyn Manson had his bottom ribs removed So he could perform fallacious on himself As just a nationwide game of telephone We all told ourselves this was true Is that not true?

No, it's not true. I mean, it was 100% of thing I heard and believed. Is it not true that he got a rib removed to give himself fallacious? Or is it not true that he got a rib removed? Can we get a rib count on Marilyn Manson? Yeah, this is 100% of thing, though. It was like an urban legend. So everyone just was like, this happened.

This just got told everybody. 100%. It says that he denies having his ribs. removed. So we didn't get confirmation. Okay. What a weird rumor. Oh my God.

No. Wait, I clicked on an article from the Sun, like the British newspaper, but they're quoting click hole, like the onion, but they don't know it's click hole. Yeah.

Dude, click hole was awesome. I'm going to say, that they. Clickhole had a story that said Marilyn Manson reveals he got all his ribs removed so he could suck someone else's piece. All of my lips. And then the son reported it is true.

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