The Ringer NFL Show - Head Coach Firing Frenzy, and DK’s 2025 Mock Draft 1.0

Episode Date: January 7, 2025

It’s Black Monday, and the guys discuss the coaches that got fired and the ones that didn’t. They talk about which job opening is the best, which is the worst, and which coach that kept their job is the most surprising (2:56). Later, they go through DK’s first mock draft. They talk Shedeur Sanders vs. Cam Ward, what position Travis Hunter will play, and more (49:49)! Check out our 2024 Ringer Fantasy Football Rankings here! Email us! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Social: Kiera Givens Producers: Kai Grady and Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, everybody. Chris Vernon here. And welcome to a new season of the NBA and the mismatch. And huge welcome as well to my new co-host, Dave Jacoby. I can't wait to link with you twice a week every Tuesday and Friday, right here on the mismatch to break down everything that's happening in the league. Who's playing well, who we loved, who we loathed, trade rumors, team dysfunction. We've got you covered right here. So follow us, subscribe, and hit us with those five-star ratings on Spotify,

or wherever you get you. your podcast. And also don't forget to follow us on social media. That's at Ringer NBA. And check out the full mismatch episodes with the two handsomest podcasters in the history of podcasting, right on the Ringer, NBA YouTube channel. Come on the Ringer fantasy football show. My name is Dana Heifton. I'm joined by Danny Kelly and Craig Quirlebeck. And we are going over Black Monday here in the NFL. We're going to go all these coach firings. We've got D.K's got his mock draft a little later of the show. We're going to go over that's going to drop on the ringer.com this week.

But right now it's January 6th. And Craig, I think it's time to storm some NFL front offices right now for some coaches that weren't fired, right? Yeah, look, it's certainly the day to do it. And things aligns really nicely. Tis the season. It's the season. An American tradition. Yeah, it is.

It's nice. Coming right out of the holiday season. Now we're storming the front offices. A lot of front offices, too, storm. And we're going to get into a lot of them today. A lot of the fans want to storm them with us. We have a large group behind us, a big contingency. So it's going to be a good show.

There are dozens of us, can you confirm. So, again, later in the show, we're going to hit D.K. And a full draft show, baby. You've got a mock draft hitting the ringer.com this week. So we're going to go over some of the highlights and perhaps quarterback-related. It's going to be exactly right. One through 32. So this is your last one.

Yeah, yeah. Nice. Feel confident. Also, you know, with that in mind, we're doing mock draft. We're doing draft show. We don't stop this podcast. For those of you who we picked up this year during the fantasy season, we're a fantasy show, but we also cover the off-season. We cover free agency.

We cover all the off-season news. We, of course, cover the draft. So don't change that dial, as Craig likes to say. Don't touch that dial. Yeah, we're a year-round show, baby. Do you have an older phrase you could use? Is there anything older than that don't touch that dial? Don't put on a new record.

I don't know. I think dials are older than records. Diles definitely older than records. I miss dials, honestly. All this digital shit, like touching screen. I don't like it. I feel like cars still have dials. I still use my dial on the car.

Some cars don't. It's what makes me mad. It's just like an arrow button. No, it's like literally touching a screen. I'm like, I can't be doing this when I'm driving. I just want to dial that I can move. I do love a dial. I agree.

Need the tactile part of it, you know? I agree. All right, so let's just get into the coach firings here. So there are five jobs available, three jobs we already knew about. So the Jets fired head coach Robert Sala back in October. Great decision there. The Saints fired Dennis Allen in November and then the Bears fired Mattie Bureflus right after Thanksgiving with that, you know, bless his heart coaching effort.

So then two more firings have happened. last 24 hours. So the Patriots fired, Gerard Mayo from the New England Patriots, and then the Jaguars fire head coach Doug Peterson from the Jaguars. That is it so far, it seems like everyone else is going to be safe. So we'll get to all the other ones that are safe, like Giants, Raiders, cowboys, all those guys in a minute. But I want to start with the jobs that are open. And I'm curious, I feel like of these jobs, generally speaking, all these jobs kind of seem like they suck. Like, you know what I mean? Like Jets, Patriots, Bears, Jaguars, Saints. And I was looking through these and I feel like of the best ones, I don't know if I

agree with that. Yeah, my, my reaction is the opposite. My, my reaction is three out of the four teams have a quarterback. So that's like a huge. That is like one of the biggest hurdles I feel like for any head coach is finding a quarterback. High Fitz, weren't you the one that said, uh, like find a quarterback one out of 10 in your in your set for life. Yeah. That's a wrong rule of quote. If every 10 quarterbacks, you can find one that you'll be in this business forever. So I mean, that's reference to a GM, but like for coaching, honestly, like, trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit with some crappy quarterback. Like, I think that's the hardest thing to do in the NFL.

So the fact that three of these teams have a quarterback, the Patriots, Drake May, the Bears and Caleb Williams, I think he's going to be a good quarterback someday. And then obviously, Trevor Lawrence and the Jags, I don't know what the Jets are going to do, but that's a whole different discussion. I think those three teams, the fact they have a quarterback makes them pretty attractive to me. I agree with that, actually. I guess I should clarify.

I think the ownership situations here are pretty brutal. And we could go through them. But I want to start with the Patriots because I know that this already happened yesterday. But so the past fired Gerard Mayer after 4 and 13 season. And again, basically what happened was Bill Belichick was the coach in New England. And Gerard May was getting interviews to go other places. And Bob Kraft, the owner of the Patriots like Gerard Mayo so much, he actually put it in his contract that he would be the successor to Bill Belichick to keep him in New England for years. And then one season in that, they bail, honestly deserved.

Gerad Mayer did a horrible job at a bunch of different things. I think this is cut and dry. I think the Patriots are going to hire Mike Vrable. I think this is not a done deal, but it seems so obvious. The Patriots, they didn't even hire a search firm. The Bobcraft's kids are just going to do the search themselves. And to me, that feels like they know their guy.

I think Mike Vrable basically got interested in the Jets to force the Patriots to make a move. And frankly, to be cynical, I think the Patriots are going to do a whole sham round of interviews and they will satisfy the Rooney Rule. But, like, they're going to end the whole point. process with, wow, we can't believe we fell until Mike Vrable, and they have to hide it because you're

not really allowed to do that. But they're going to do it. And this feels cut and dry to me. Do you guys disagree with that? Like, I think this is, this is kind of done to me. I agree. I also think Vrable in the offseason, you know, he was a consultant for the Browns

this year. And when he was interviewed in that big New York Times piece, he basically said he was like, the only team I want to join is a team that already has a quarterback. So I don't think he's going to the Jets. Like, obviously he's not going to the Saints. The Pats make the most sense. I think the Pats are the best fit now, to be honest. I think I would rather go there over the bears. So that might sound crazy. But even though they're going up, you know, they still have the bills in

the division. But I don't know, you look elsewhere. It's like the Dolphins and the Jets, the the Dolvens are going in the wrong direction. The Jets are at rock bottom. And you step in and you have a top five pick in the draft. You can get your o' lineman. And you have some pieces. There are like a few defensive pieces that look good. Obviously, you have the history. you don't have the pressure of following up Bill Belichick it just makes perfect sense for Rable to go to New England

to me. So Mike Vrable if he goes to New England it reminds me a lot of Mike Tomlin getting Ben Rothesberger back and I think that was like 2007 early on

where and it's still the story with Mike Tomlin today where culture, toughness, incredible week to week matchup game planning and you just get competitive football at least when you're playing good teams

I know Tomlin sometimes they play down to their competition but like you're getting competitive football and the problem been when Mike Tomlin hasn't had a great quarterback, they haven't really been able to have the ceiling of other teams. Mike Vrable reminds me of that so much, but he's getting Drake May, who I think we'll agree.

Drake May, D.K., you loved him coming out of the draft last year, and Drake May, frankly, has satisfied every criteria you'd want to see from him. I know statistically it wasn't amazing, but Drake May is everything you want to see any young quarterback. And Mike Vrable and May, to me, feels like something we will watch for like 10 years plus. Like, this feels like the rare coach. Most of these coach situations do not work out.

Vrable and Drake May feels to me like something that, it would be very unwise to bet against it. Who would be the dark horse then if it isn't Vrable here? I think I saw a report that said Ben Johnson was interested in this job as well. And I obviously think that would be interesting from an offensive schematic point of view, like putting an offensive coordinator, offensive-minded guy with Drake May long term. Do you think there's any world in which it's not variable, or are you pretty much just assuming at this point it is? I think it's variable because he's the spiritual successor to Bill Belichick.

Like, there's a reason Bill Belichick has no coaching tree whatsoever outside of Rable who was a player for him. Like, to me, that makes sense because Belichick, I don't know. But if it's not Rable, I think Ben Johnson, if you're Ben Johnson, I actually think the thing that makes most sense is the Patriots or the Jaguars actually over Chicago because, I mean, Drake me a little. But really, Trevor Lawrence and Jacksonville is the one that I think is most akin to Jared Goff, like your six foot five, I guess Lawrence is six, six, a gargantuan tall pocket passer. where, but you play in rhythm and on time, whereas I think in Chicago, Ben Johnson would be cool. But like Caleb Williams' skill set

is about not playing on time. Caleb Williams' skill set is about going outside the, you know, coloring outside the lines. And so I think Ben Johnson would totally want to be, I think New England's a smart choice for him to make. I also think Jacksonville makes a ton of sense for Ben Johnson. But the Jaguars, though? I don't think he's going to want to go there.

So Jacksonville? So Jacksonville fired Doug Peterson, and he deserved it. Like, no offense. Just because of bulky? Yeah, so weird situation. So Doug, Jack Horse went 4 and 13. We knew Peter Simmons gave fire.

They asked him about how can the offense improve last week? And he was like 20 seconds of silence. It was sad. Like, it was literally like he just sat there. But they kept the general manager, Trent Balke. And like, no one can believe this guy is like warm tongue in Lord of the Rings. Like he is a snake. He's a cockroach.

He's a cockroach. He's a cockroach. He's a cockroach. He's a carloch. Trent Balke has been, Albert Breer pointed this out. Trent Balke has been a general manager twice. both times his boss got fired and Trent Balky took the job.

Trent Balke, first of all, when a power struggle with Jim Harbaugh. Imagine you're taking Jim Harbaugh of a football building. Yeah. Like, that was in San Francisco. Trent Balke was part of the Jaguress front office. GM gets fired.

He, Urban Meyer comes in. Trent Balchie spends all week with Urban Meyer and then convinces Urban Meyer that he should be the GM. Trent Balky gets to be the GM. Outlasts Urban Meyer and everything that happened that year. Then Doug Peterson comes in, goes through all three seasons with Doug Peterson.

Doug Peterson fired. Trump Balky somehow not blamed, even though he took Trayvon Walker over Aiden Hutchinson because Trayvon Walker's arms were longer. And then he went and gave Gabe Davis more money than Saquan Barclay, and then paid Christian Kirk so much money that Tyree Kill and Devante Adams immediately demanded and were granted trades because it was so much money to Christian Kirk.

Like, this guy's broken everything. Yeah, the Kirk one I think is the most indefensible. That's tough. Trayvon Walker thing, I feel like a lot of people weren't super high on Aiton Hutchinson. I feel like there was a lot of doubts on him translated to the NFL and then that was immediately disproven. Gabe Davis stings a little bit too. But man, the Kristen Kirk, giving Kristen Kirk all that money.

Kirk and Gabe Davis both had their best performances of a season against the Jaguars and the Jaguars then paid them in free agency. Literally like Trent Balke just pays whatever receiver plays well against Jacksonville. That's the free agent plan. He also gave Zay Jones a lot of money. It's crazy. And so here, it's actually insane. Brian Thomas saved his job.

There's like, there's like almost no metric in which he's been good, I feel like. I don't understand this. He has like compromise on. He stumbled into Brian Thomas and he traded back and got Brian Thomas, which is crazy. But I, that's safe. It is insane. And also I think it's weird because I wonder if keeping Trent Balkei cost them Ben Johnson. Because we had already, I mean, it already came through the tea leaves to Ben Johnson.

I really want Trent Balchie to stay. Now we'll see because Ben Johnson, I think, has been linked to the Jaguars. But isn't it now report? that the new, Shod Khan says that the head coach is going to report to him and not Trent Balke, which is already a super weird situation. Isn't that the new report now? Some teams do that. I think, I'm a big believer that probably bullshit report to the owner. It depends, it depends on the situation who the coaches and who the GM is, but literally imagine you're Ben Johnson. Like, literally, like, you know, you may not be a coordinator, but imagine you're walking to this job

interview and you're a very popular candidate in the cycle. And in the room, our Shad Khan, his son, Tony, who runs a W. W.E., or like a wrestling startup and the analytics department, for your company. And Trent Balky. And like, those are the three people. And Trent Balky, who has defeated Jim Harbaugh, defeated Urban Meyer, outlasted Doug Peterson. And he's like, yeah, yeah, no, he's just going to report to shot.

Don't worry about him. And I'm like, isn't that a weird thing to walk? Like, Ben Johnson is what I'm talking about. Why would you take this job if you're Ben Johnson? You've been playing the long game. Well, what else are you going to do? You have the best position of like almost any offensive coordinator in years in terms of positioning yourself to be a hot, like, candidate for a head coaching job.

He's been playing the long game. He has, like, the perfect situation. He is in, as I like to say, the catbird seat for all head coaching candidates. Why would you go to the Jags? I don't understand it. I think it would make zero sense to me if he did that. You think he should go to Chicago? Let's say, New England's off the table.

I think he should, I would rather, if I was him, I would rather go back to the Lions and go to the Jags. He should just stay again. should just stay 100%. I obviously agree with that. They should just pay him the same amount as Dan Campbell, and they should just stay there forever and be the best team. He's going to just like reminisce on like how great he had as time as a alliance coordinator. Like you could do worse.

I don't know that sounds insane because these guys want it, but part of me is like, I don't know. You never know, right? Situation's turn around fast. He turned down Washington and Jane Daniels looks like quarterback you really wish you had been part of. So it's funny, but you never know. Sure.

Yeah. But if you thought he was creeped out apparently by Washington because he said they were basketball guys because it was like, you know, Josh Harrison's the Sixers. and then, you know, what's his face? The Warriors, what I can never remember is the Warriors. Bob Myers. Bob Myers was involved,

the Warriors GM, or former Warriors GM. And so he turned that down. I'm like, this is a weird situation in Jacksonville. Like it's like your cockroach like Trent Balkey lying around and being like, don't worry about him.

It's a weird situation. And then, but if I was a head coaching candidate, that I would be, I would not. But you look at Chicago, but the flip side though with the Jaguars is everything else about it.

It's an amazing situation, other than the franchise kind of sucking. But like, that's why coaches get fired. It's like, you never going to get a perfect situation. everything else about it. Lawrence is,

I know Lawrence people think is like overrated. I don't care. You never get a quarterback prospect like Lawrence in a coaching job. To your point, DK and Craig, like that never comes around. And the other part of this. Which is funny because technically three of them are up for grabs right now

with Drake, I know, it's funny. And Trevor Lawrence. Maybe they're getting people fired. But or maybe the companies that they, businesses that are not allowed to go out of fit, businesses that are not allowed to go out of business,

keep getting the best players. But if you're the Jaguards, you have to beat the Titans, the cults. and the Texans every year. But if you go to the Bears, I mean, the Bears, the NFC North is three of the best coaches

in the entire league. Like, you have to beat the Vikings and Kevin O'Connell. He's to beat the Lions and Dan Campbell, and you've got to beat the Packers and Matt Lafleur like every year. Like, that's, that sucks. And the Bears are cursed.

And you have to deal with the succession, 10 kids who own 4% and they're going to sell the team in tears anyway. Like they're all... The division, Yeah, the division is a good argument right there. I would rather go to Jacksonville in Chicago for that reason.

Going up against Matt LaFloor, Dan Campbell, and Kevin O'Connell for the next five years versus Shane Steichen, who's probably not going to be the coach in two years. Who knows about what's going in Tennessee in two years? And then Demico Ryan's in Stroud. I would much rather take that in Trevor Lawrence and get in there and hope that Trent Balke's gone next year

and that you can really like spread your tentacles and take over with Brian Thomas and Trevor Lawrence, which is as good as a one, two punches you're going to get. That's by far the most compelling argument. Yeah. It's location, location, location. And the other one is the NFC South. You'd think the Saints, oh, you have to compete with the Box and Baker,

that's doable. The Falcons, that's doable. The Panthers, that's doable. But you're like, damn, the Saints. The Saints are like, you're the fall guy. The Saints have been running this Ponzi scheme with the salary cap for 10 years, and it's going to collapse while you're there. And there's like, hey, like, come run.

It'll be great. Like, we're going to be patient with you. And it's like, no, you have to compete, hit all your draft picks just to field a team. And then when it goes to shit, they're going to fire you and hire someone else. You know how they say you should buy the worst house on the best street? That's like theoretically what the Saints are, but the house is so bad that you can't move. It's like completely dilapidated. It's like buying the house, the worst house.

the worst house on the street, but having no money to do anything with it. So you just have the worst house. That's like giving a college kid a two-year lease of a Toyota Tacoma. And he has no money and nothing to do with it. So, yeah, it's weird. So we'll see what happens with all these openings. I really do think Vrabble goes to the Patriots. I think Ben Johnson Jags, Bears are like, I wouldn't be shocked.

I think he'll take a job third times a charm, but I wouldn't be shocked if Ben Johnson goes back. It'd be awesome if he went back. Do you think he's more likely to go back? if they don't win the Super Bowl or if they do? Probably if they don't, right? I think if they win, you leave. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think if they don't, but also you don't know. And also just, these rules are also really weird. So the coaches, I believe, coaches now can't interview until after the divisional round because there's a whole weird politic to this too where obviously you want coordinators from like the good teams, but the good teams play in the playoffs. But you can interview virtually before the divisional round.

You can't interview in person until after the division. It's weird because while these guys are games, planning for the most important games of their entire careers. They're also prepping for job interviews and getting no sleep. And so there's always like doing their interviews and like on Monday after they win a playoff game. And it's like, oh yeah, you won the wild card round. And then it's like on no sleep.

You prep eight hours to be like, here's what I would do with your franchise, Mr. Arthur Blank or whatever. And like, if they're sleep deprived and like, what a terrible system for everybody involved. So then you postpone it to the division around, but that just leads to more background dealing. So the whole thing's really weird, honestly. Anyway. That's never made sense.

to me. I guess you can't just wait until after the Super Bowl because then that would just leave a month of not being allowed to interview coaches, right? You can't have that. You can't pretend like billionaires will let their franchises hang in limbo for two months. They will either backroom deal the shit out of it or just never hire anyone on the good teams if you enforce it or just strike deals. That's why the Eagles are so pissed at the Cardinals for Jonathan Gannon because the Eagles were in the Super Bowl in Arizona. And Jonathan, and they're like, are you going to take the Cardinals job? He's like, nah, but they're in Arizona for the week. guess who became the Cardinals at coach?

Like two days after the lost Super Bowl in Arizona. Jonathan Gannon, they were pissed. And so it's like, you think it's a coincidence? John Gannon was in Arizona for a week and then like became the Cardinals at coach. Like they're all messing with each other's guys. They're like, why are you hanging out at Michael Bidwell's house? He's like, well? I thought I'd turn my location off.

Exactly. But it's also weird because Vrable can get hired immediately because he's not a current coach, right? Yeah. But you still have to satisfy the Rooney rule so you would have to interview other people before you can hire Mike Vrable, right? Yeah. And I think that's the thing with the Rooney Rule, too, where it's a well-intentioned rule. Like, it's, the league is 70% black and there's, you know, it ebbs and flows between some years, there's two black head coaches.

Some of the years there's like six. I mean, we're at the point with the more black general managers, actually, than coaches. And so, yeah, you would want to force black candidates into the job pool. But what ends up happening is while players have this whole hiring process of meritocracy, coaching's like any other job where it's like, oh, I know a guy who knows a guy. And, like, you can't have an idea of who you want beforehand. And so it's like, you have, it's a, it's a job. a good-natured rule to satisfy the criteria, but the reality is it hasn't led to significantly

more diversity because these are 70 and 80-year-old billionaires. They're already deciding what they want for the most part before they even start. So it's like you check the boxes, and then you kind of hire him you wanted the whole time. That's what Brian Flores's lawsuits about is that Bill Belichick texted Brian the wrong Brian. He texted Brian Dable, congrats before Brian Flores had interviewed because he just had Brian in his phone and just texted the wrong Brian. It sucks because these interviews become just boxes you have to check more than anything. It's a very weird process. Do you know, does a virtual interview satisfy the Rooney Rule or does it have to be in

person? I think any, I think as long as you interview him, yeah. Virtually fine. That satisfies, yeah. So we'll see. You know, there are certainly good candidates. So we'll see it happens. Did you guys read Brian Flores's like, whatever it is his lawsuit?

The lawsuit? It's amazing. Yeah. Like he, I haven't, it's been a couple years since I read it or whatever, but it was like, basically the whole thing was a sham. I think he specifically was referencing the Broncos who brought him in. He was like, John Elway was super hungover, like all this shit. And I'm like, you know, obviously this has to be all proven in court.

But I'm like, this is the most believable. The Broncos defense literally has to be like, dude, John Elway's always like that, man. Come on. But yeah, it's tough. And also, I mean, the other things that I've been alleged in this are like, Brian Flores, this was offered. I mean, Stephen Ross, the owner of the dolphins, offered like a, 100K a game for Brian Flores to lose, like in cash under the table. And that's crazy.

But then that goes back to the Miami and like why certain teams stay the way they are. And I'm like, we got an old owner who just wants to see championships. But look at Miami who kept Chris Greer, the GM and Mike McDaniel, the coach. I think we all think Mike McDaniel's good head coach. We look at the dolphins. You're like, how is Chris Greer have this job? Can I tell you the truth? The dolphins have too many legal issues to fire Chris Greer.

Like the dolphins, not only have the Tom Brady tampering thing. and the Sean Payton tampering thing, they're actively being sued by Brian Flores. You think they can let Chris Greer go? Oh, you're saying you think he like knows of too many skeletons in the closet to get fired right now? Yeah, you're going to fire Chris Greer? You can't fire Chris Greer because he like missed some fourth round picks. Are you fucking kidding me?

Like, they can't do that. Why? You're afraid then that he would go public with a bunch of dirt? Yeah, he knows everything. He knows where the bodies are buried. But if he gets fired and goes public and who would hire him? Who would hire a rat? That's fair enough.

I'm just saying why go through that? Like I just, I, and again, I just don't, the crissure, I don't say he has to get fired because of his record, but like, I don't know,

at the end of the day. The point is that these, there's a lot that goes into it and it's complicated and there's a lot of football that's complicated, but a lot of it still is people and you're working for like 80-year-old,

as Michael Lombardi used to say, billion-dollar lemonade stands. A lot of weird stuff going on. So with that said, do you guys want to get to some of the coaches who stayed? Like, frankly, like, the story to me is like,

didn't happen. Like most of these teams kept their guys. Why don't you start with your team? Dude. Actually, before I say, so the Giants kept Brian Daibel as head coach that kept Joe Shane as the GM. Do you like, do you like that the Maras are acting in a way where it feels like they are more worried about the perception of them being a messy franchise than them actually just liking and believing in Joe Shane and Daibald?

I think I like how you said that. They're more worried about not being the Jets than they are about being the Giants. It's really true. Yeah, they're like, we want to be the Steelers. Like, really? Really, they really do want to be the Steelers. I mean, John Mayer called Sequin this week. It was like, so you made a commercial about what I said about you can't fall asleep if

you go to the Eagles. Oh, I'm sorry. I saw that. That was bold. Pathetic. Before I even say anything, what do you guys think about the Giants keeping Joe Shane and Brian Daibald? Because I'm obviously biased.

I'm curious what you guys think. From an outside perspective, I always thought that Daibel and Shane were a great package duo hire. And I thought they came in to rebuild the Giants after Daniel Jones. And Daniel Jones played well for one year and mucked everything up and they resigned him. I think that. the last year has been obviously not great based on Sequan and a lot of things that they've done

in the front office. However, part of me still is like, I think Dayball is a good coach and I would like to see what he can do with a fresh start on the team, which is why you brought him in to begin with. What do you think, D.K.? I don't know what to think, honestly.

I don't have a strong opinion on Joe Shane. I think we probably haven't seen. Hard knocks stung for Joe Shane. Yeah, I was not a good one ever participate again. The irony is like there's like a mean thing you say about draft guys that are just like players, which is like just a guy. And like I watched the draft the hard knocks. I was like Joe Shane's just a guy. Like it's just a guy doing his best.

There's no magic here. But. And then I go back and forth with Dave all because I think like there's a world in which he could be, you know, among the head coaches that are known as like super smart schemers, right? Like the guys that can like get the most other quarterbacks. but honestly, just we have not seen that at all in the last couple years. And I mean, I keep going back to it. I keep coming back to this stat. Who has scored the fewest touchdowns in the last like, I don't know,

obviously not since, I mean, Daveyell's not been there long enough, but like. Two years. He has not done enough to change, he has not done enough to change my opinion on the Giants, which is almost always they're just an absolute disaster. So I don't really know how I feel about Daywall. I think I've jet like if you know there's like one of those things that you vote on it's like I think I'm like generally negative feeling for him but like just barely like I'm just on the negative side like I don't like it wouldn't be I wouldn't look at it like oh that sucks for the giants if they fired him but I also am not like he sucks that he needs to go so I guess lukewarm is is you saw the John Mara quote the Giants owner John Merrow what he said yeah he well Merrow was like we need to talk about maybe you not having play calling duty anymore, which I'm like, isn't that why he's there? Yeah. Once you start heading down that road, it's like, what are we doing here? That's like saying,

like, let's take a break in a relationship. You're like, most of the time that means it's not going to work. Maybe you should sleep on the couch. Right. I don't know. I think I just generally don't. But also, I mean, you also have to, I guess, think about who you could replace him with. And if you assume that you're not getting Mike Vrable and if Ben Johnson wants to go to a team of the good quarterback, that's probably not going to be the Giants. Maybe they get Shador or Cam Ward or something like that. So you're getting like the third best option

or you just keep Brian Dayball? I don't know. Bobby Skinner had talking Giants. He was like, sort of recap John Mayer's press conference. He hates the defense. He wants Brian Daibald to give a play calling. The roster is not better than it was three years ago. John Merr was more frustrated than anyone.

They didn't tank but just lost to the Eagles backups because they were trying. They just believed they're, the right guys for the job. So I don't know. I guess I just look at this whole situation and I'm like, what piece of information

would actually make this make sense? I'm a big believer sometimes in Occam's razor of like, what's out of frame where you're like, oh, I get why they're here. And I'm not saying I know this. I'm not reporting it.

I'm speculating. But to me, the thing that would make the most sense is that after they made the playoffs two years ago, John Mara and Chris Mara, who is his brother, who like also is part

of the player personal department, we're like, we want to keep Daniel Jones. And I think Brian Dable was probably like, yeah, I'll make it work either way. And Joe Shane was like, I don't know. And I think if they kind of really forced their hand on keeping Daniel Jones, and then Daniel Jones sucked. And this season happened. And then you're like going to fire.

And he told his yell, right, the next year. Yeah. Well, Daniel Jones actually think as a player now has been misrepresented. Daniel Jones was much better. And he had a spinal injury like three years ago. He hasn't been the same sense. But I guess basically, if the mayor of family, and ownership wanted to sign Daniel Jones

and Daebel and Shane were like, don't do it. And then I see how they would not want to hold these guys accountable. Yeah, you owe it to them to get a year without Daniel Jones. And I'm not saying I know that's what happened, but doesn't that make the most sense to you of like, how is everything this bad and you're keeping these guys?

And you're like, eh, that's kind of my fault. Like, I just, to me, that makes the most sense. I just, to me, it's like it feels like the understanding was, hey, you're coming in for the post-Daniel Jones era and then they super overperformed and exceeded expectations and beat the Vikings in the playoffs and then it was like,

shit, what do we do now? And now you're just going to fire Dave all when this is not even the team he was supposed to be coaching to begin with. I was talking to someone who works for an NFL team about this today where they pointed out

that the whole pitch of the table and Shane coming from the bills together was we were part of a rebuild in Buffalo where we actually turned it around so quick we made the playoffs immediately. Did not smell her own

cologne, you know, didn't think her own shit didn't smell. And like we tore the thing down anyway, even though we made the playoffs went got Josh Allen all the stuff and then now they built the bills and the Giants went did exactly that year one they go for worse to first they like you know they end up in the playoffs not worse to first but they end up in the playoffs and then they did they didn't do that that

next part of like but you still have to do the tear down kind of and they doubled down on a bad roster it's like but that was the whole pitch of who you were going to be so anyway I don't know maybe no one cares about this but I just I just yeah my my the thing I've been thinking about throughout this whole thing is like day ball gets a lot of credit for for quote unquote developing Josh Allen and helping turn Josh Allen into Josh Allen. And I'm like, maybe Josh Allen is just really fucking good. To me, it's always like these coordinators get so much credit for the great players around them. But like, sometimes great players just are great.

And they turn out and for whatever, something clicks, something clicks with Josh Allen. Maybe Dave-Ball did have something to do with that. But like, I don't think he was the reason Josh Allen is good. And now it's like three, like three years in, they are 30th. points per game. They're nine and 25 in the last two seasons. 30th. They've averaged 17 points a game. Feels like coordinators only get credit

for ruining quarterbacks but not for propping them up. Right? Like, Davele got a lot of credit for Josh Allen though. He got the job because of Josh Allen. Coordinators always get I, a lot of times get credit. Look at like Canalis. But I'm saying by your argument, you're saying that if a

if a quarterback ends up being really good, we shouldn't give credit to the coordinator. But if a quarterback ends up being really bad, we can bash the coordinator. No, no, no. What I'm saying is, I think a lot of people gave Dayball credit for Josh Allen, and then we're three years into this Giants thing, and he hasn't really shown much evidence of, like, turning any of the quarterbacks on that roster into, like, good quarterbacks. You know what I mean? Like, at some point, you're like, okay, maybe Josh Allen was just really good.

I'm not saying you shouldn't ever give credit to offensive coordinators, but I'm saying this Josh Allen thing was now three years ago, like four years ago. Yeah. And to me, I haven't seen a lot of signs. that he's like this genius play caller that can get the most out of the quarterbacks that he's got in. They won a playoff game with Daniel Jones.

I know, but like... Yeah, but the Vikings, that defense was horrific. Regardless, they made the playoffs and they won a game and then he tore his ACL the next year and he's been playing with who? I mean, who has he had? He's been playing with Tommy DeVito. It was solid.

It was shoestring and bubble gum, and I'm interested in seeing what Dable can do with like, we'll see. I mean, maybe we'll get a quarterback and we'll see. I would say this and then we can move on. I'm doing that thing where like when my parents pick one side of a political argument, I just take the other for no reason.

for some reason I find myself defending Brian Dale. So this was 2022, right, when they went to the playoffs. I went 9, 6, and 1. Daniel Jones threw 15 touchdowns that year. I know, but they basically used him. And he was like basically good because he ran a lot. Yeah. Yeah.

Like to me, I'm like, this is not, this is not like super savvy quarterback development. He ran for like 700 yards, I think, that year. But wouldn't you argue that that's from that? The lesson from that season was not we should build around this guy. And I don't know how they did it. To me, it was like, wow. he managed to do what he could with Daniel Jones. There were two things and then we can move on.

I would say that the Giants problems are the biggest problem they have is that the giant's personnel problems that no one ever talks about is one of the owners of the team works in personnel. And so does one of the son-in-laws. And that may or may not be a common theme in some of their issues is like people who cannot get fired run the department. And like after 10 years of this over four head coaches, how long until you're like maybe that's the problem.

It's hard to, you know, at some point they're the only. consistent or variable. And then the other thing I'd say, I think the reason in one sentence to me why Dable is still here, and so is Joe Shane, is the Giants came really close to firing Tom Coughlin at the end of the 2006 season, really close. And then they kept him, and Tom Coughlin won the Super Bowl. And then he won another Super Bowl. And the entire modern Giants history had changed because they did not fire Tom Coughlin

when everyone wanted them to. And he changed as a person. And I think that right or wrong, that is weighing very heavily on John Mera, that they did not fire Tom Coughlin. You don't want to, you don't want to gain the perception that you're this kind of cold feet, can't commit to anybody,

you know, quick turnaround, fickle, yeah, you don't want that. Steelers three head coaches since Richard Nixon Giants, three head coaches since COVID. So, you know. Well, how many, how many playoff wins have the Steelers had

since 2016? Zero. Less than the Giants. All right. So the other team that did not make a change, the Cowboys are keeping Mike McCarthy. His contract was up, So they're going to bring them back. I wasn't surprised by this as that much.

I mean, so Dak Prescott got hurt this year in the Dallas lost 10 games. And so basically Mike McCarthy has a sandwich where he, when Dak Prescott's been healthy, three straight seasons of 12 wins with the bread. Carderback. Second best regular season record other than the Chiefs in that stretch. Yeah. And like with the two seasons that Prescott got hurt in his first and most recent season for McCarthy, they lost 10 games.

And like that just seems, you know, but really, I don't know if I saw this, but Brandon Graham, the Eagles defense. end. He's like one of the leaders of the Eagles, but he's hurt. So he's like not. So he did Sunday pregame for ESPN on Sunday for week 18. I actually love when players in the league who are like out of the playoffs or got hurt, do media.

I think that's great. Wasn't he the guy that was talking about A.J. Brown and J. Hurts being not friends anymore and all that. Yes. He's the one who just said, yeah, like AJ Brown should probably do better job talking to Jalen. And so Brandon Graham went on and they asked him, do you think the cowboy should

keep? Mike McCarthy. And Brandon Graham is this like big shit eating grin on his face. He's like, oh yeah, I definitely think they should keep Mike McCroth. We, you know, we just love the rivalry. You know, I would, yeah, keep that go. We would, yeah. What do the opposing fans in the division think the Cowboys should do?

That gives you your answer. Dude. We should start a consulting firm and that's all we do is we just talk. This is like the, it's like the new polling thing. It's like, you remember how it during like the election, it was like, you don't poll the person. who they're going to vote for, you pull the person on who they think their neighbors are voting for. And there's like, for whatever reason,

it's like there was more accuracy in looking at who people think their neighbors are going to vote for versus who they say they're going to vote for because I think people lie and just a million other reasons. This is like the new most accurate thing to do if you're like a search firm for a head coach is like, just ask the opposing fans what they want your team to do. It's the same thing in the game. It's like on, if it's fourth and fourth, what are the fans not want you to do?

It's Costanza consulting. We should literally open Van DeLay Consulting. Yeah. Art Vandalay Consulting. We should charge teams a quarter million a pop. And we should literally all we do, John Mayer and the Giants hire us. And all we do is talk to Eagles and Cowboys and Washington fans.

We're like, should they keep Dable and Shane? Everyone's like, yeah, keep them. We're like, they're gone. This is how that French guy, this is how that French guy made like millions and millions of dollars betting on the election. Did you hear about this? Van der Leight consulting. We basically hire spies in every city to go around and ask all the fans.

what they want and they report back to us and that's how we make our decisions. Anyway, if it's you're a Giants fan, do you think it would be funny if they keep Mike McCarthy? Oh, yeah. Would you be more intimidated and scared if they hired, you know, one of these like up-and-coming, for instance, like Liam Cohen or obviously Ben Johnson? Jerry's the thing. They'll never be good as long as Jerry's kicking. Jerry Jones, I think what generally what Jerry wants is a pain sponge, like succession.

Like he just wants to run the team and have fun. McCarthy's his little's pain sponge. Did you see about land man this week? Oh, I did. Can I just say everybody needs to relax about his acting chops? The man was clearly reading off a giant cue card the entire time. I actually had Carlos, will you play the beginning of this monologue he gives to John Hamm in the hospital? I'm not saying I've done anything right, but I made my mind up long time ago. I was going to work with my kids. They're involved in everything. They're involved my leasing, oil and gas, real estate. And so when I got to Camrose, I got it so that we could all work together.

I thought I was doing it for them. But the one that got the most out of it was me. Craig, come on, man. You just have a little black heart if you can't enjoy that a little bit. It was great. It was weirdly good. It's a weirdly good scene. It cuts to John Hammond in a hospital seat and Billy Bob Thornton sitting on a window next film.

I'm like, I don't watch Landman. I actually don't consume any Taylor-Sharrant shows. I've saved a lot of time in my life avoiding those, I think. But, uh, I just, I don't know. I'm going to start. Uh, yeah, sure. But, uh, I don't know. I just thought everyone's like, Jerry Jones, great actor.

I'm like, dude, it's like a tight shot on his face the entire time. There's not a single wide shot. He's clearly reading off a cute card. He's better than Bejan Robinson's acting. Yeah. I think it's all relative. It's way better than I thought he would be. Yeah.

It's just fashion. I think he's getting a lot of mileage out of the accent, to be honest. His accent and his speaking style just sounds good. It just works. Here's my question. Why is that fictional script that he wrote or he just read off of sound like the actual most honest assessment of the Dallas Cowboys where he's just like, yeah, Connie's did this for me and my kids and kind of don't really care about anyone else.

Like that's what's the problem with the Cowboys? Like they're a family business. It's just something he does with his kids. It's literally like a fantasy football league that you do with your kids to stay in touch. Like that's all it is to Jerry Jones is he's like, man, it's so fun that we all, everyone pays attention to me and my kids. Didn't Jerry Jones just say that he will be the GM as long as he's, alive? Yeah, he's like, I did this for me. He's Walter White. Like, he's like, I did it for me.

Like, what do you want for me? And so anyway, that's what Mike McCarthy is. It's not like a head coach. It's not like when the Eagles or the Ravens look for someone to run the team, they want someone to win and they're analyzing it from like a business perspective of how will we achieve our goals. Jerry Jones is like, who will do all the stuff that I don't enjoy doing? Mike McCarthy, will you be my pain sponge, Tom Wombscans cans? Mike McCarthy's like, Hell yeah, brother. Yeah, he doesn't actually want, he doesn't actually want the coach to run the team.

He just wants the coach to be like the figurehead. Bill Parcells came and he couldn't help tell. He wanted to tell Bill Parcells, everything to do. Anyway, so the Cowboys, yeah, sure, keep Mike McCarthy to the Paine Spudge. That's fine. The pain sponge.

By the way, just got to tweet, Adam Schaefter, Chicago Bears have sought permission to interview Cowboys head coach Mike McCarthy and are awaiting a response from Dallas. What the fuck? The bears are weird.

I think the bears are just bad. They're just really just a bad organization. If I was Ben Johnson and I saw that, I'd be like, I'm out. Yeah. Can I just guess imagine if you're the Bears and you're looking at other teams head coaches that you want to interview. And you're like, you know who I want? Mike McCarthy. What is that even about?

I guess that's them sick. I guess that's basically Bears being like he is like Caleb Williams is like Aaron Rogers. And we want Mike McCarthy who coached Aaron Rogers. Who's running this search for the Bears head coach job? Is it polls? Does he get control of this? I think it's Kevin Warren, who was the Big Ten guy who left and then, man, I mean, Kevin Warren.

NIFL teams. Lemonade stands, guys. Again, they're businesses that are not allowed to go to business. Like, you know, you walk down any street in any city and you're like, oh, man, that place has changed over two years. It's like, yeah, things go out of business. The NFL, none of these people are allowed to go to business. It's crazy. Okay.

Bears, there's something off there. I just get sad. I'm so sad thinking about the bears now. I know. They're just doomed. It is funny to see that at the highest level, the richest people in the world cannot fucking run a company. That's my biggest issue with conspiracy theories,

like the Illuminati and they're like the rich control everything. Have you met these people? Like, no fucking way. No chance. The Raiders kept Antonio Pierce too, which I'm kind of like, I was wondering about this too. And I'm like,

I guess this isn't super official. You know, it's 4 o'clock Eastern. Maybe they can still go. But I think Antonio Pierce is going to stay. My read on the, the Raiders finished 4 and 13. It kind of was a mess.

He's probably the worst game. Him and Draud Bayel, frankly, were the worst game managing coaches. I think it's related that they were really good linebackers. I think that makes for like really bad coaching decisions because you trust your defense to get a stop with your rational confidence of a linebacker. But like, that's not your job as a coach

to be a rationally confident. Your bad defense will do something. So a lot of bad decisions. I honestly kind of wonder how much of Pierce staying is that he really wanted Jaden Daniels because of the Antonio Pierce, or the Arizona State connection. And that just looked good in retrospect

that he wanted Daniels. so bad. And then they also wanted Michael Panics and the Falcons just sniped them. And I almost wonder if it's kind of like, yeah, we wanted these two quarterbacks. We didn't get either. So we had minshured it sucked. But like it ages well that your head coach wanted those two guys who seemed pretty good.

And I wonder if it's kind of that simple. And they're like, we'll get you a quarterback and try again. But it's weird. I think it's also just, I mean, when you get down to brass tax, like can they afford to to fire him? I don't know what it's coming. Oh, like Mark Davis physically like he actually can't afford to hire another coach and pay X.

Although I guess he's interim, so maybe he doesn't even have a contract. I don't know what... Well, not interim anymore. Is it a contract? Because remember, so everyone has no money in this scenario where Mark Davis

is like one of the poorest owners in the league because he inherited, like he just inherited the team from his dad. And then Antonio Pierce has such illegal issues with these like car dealerships. He's under water with this. He's getting his wages garnished or something. So it's like everyone involved can't really afford to keep losing the checks. Yeah.

And I don't know what the... Because coaches like contracts are not necessarily public. I don't believe. So I don't know exactly what his contracts. says, but I get the impression maybe they just, like, can't afford to hire some glitzy new coach and, you know, pay it, pay an old coach money for not being there. You know what I mean? Like, maybe they literally can't do that. I'm just, just me guessing. I don't actually know, but like, when teams cut a player for the most part, they don't keep paying the player. Like,

the player is not getting any more money. And anything you ever dead money is money. They already got paid. When the teams fire a coach, you keep paying the coach to not work for you. That was the problem, Dave Tepper and the Panthers. At one point he was paying three coaches he already fired looking for a fourth like cats in the wall and it's so he's sunny so like honestly a third of the time you're wondering why your team didn't fire your coach is because you can't he can't afford it so that's a good call and he and i'm i got confused he's not an interim he's he's the head coach he was interim last year right i'm remembering the remembering the uh yeah that was last year timeline correctly here so the other team that just held on Shane steichen and the

cults the cults are keeping Shane Steichen and they're keeping GM Chris ballard uh they released the thing where a statement where jim mersey was basically like I'm pissed and I'm paying attention and we're going to keep them. Colts finished eight, nine. Basically, the handling of Anthony Richardson from basically October on was a disaster. And I don't know, I feel like this team is still reeling from Andrew Luck eight years ago, retiring D.K. And also, I feel like we'll remember this season is the year that Anthony Richard was taught how to be mature by Jim Ursay. Yeah. You are who your friends are, something like that. Is there like an old expression? You are who you hang out with?

It's tough with Joe Flacco in the building because Joe Flacco does seem like kind of a consummate professional. He's 40 years old. He's like been in this game so long. Him sitting here watching Anthony Richardson this whole season. I feel like has just been like truly like a father and son situation and you're like don't want your son to screw up and go down the wrong path. Did you guys see the interview of Joe Flacco when he was asked what advice he would give to Anthony Richardson next year? Yeah, he basically was like he sounded like any guy who's 35 talking to anyone who's 20. too and kind of hates their job.

Yeah, but that's like what that's the reading between the lines thing that like is really worrisome is like he's essentially insinuating. Flacco is insinuating that Richardson like. Doesn't appreciate what he has. Yeah, he started seeing it as a job. It wasn't working as hard as he should. Clocking and clocking out. Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. Clocking in, clocking out. He wasn't viewing it as like, I don't even like a privilege that you're the quarterback. You're one of the quarterbacks of an NFL team and quarterbacks are expected, you above all players in the building to be like the hardest working guys, the most, you know, discipline, the the guys that are like being, I guess like the, you know, the face of the organization. And I think the insinuation here, and this is like now an accumulation of multiple things that have happened throughout the year that it's like, if you read between the lines, basically it's saying

Anthony Richardson not putting in the work that he needs to as the coach or as the quarterback and as like the leader of the organization. So there's just enough. I feel like there's enough little like, you know, cookie crumbs or whatever. Bread crumbs, yeah, sorry. That we can kind of put together what's going on here. I think you add in the fact he pulled himself out of a game, which I've never fucking seen from a quarterback ever because he was tired.

And then he admitted it. Like there's just a naivness. There's something, he's 22 years old, whatever it is, but there's something going on there where like he's clearly not stepping up. Or I don't know if that's clear, but that's what I think is happening. I know. It is. It's concerning when basically it's like, yeah, he was tired.

left the game and everyone's like, yep, that's a representative illustration of his work. And so the athletic, Zach Kiefer at the athletic had a great story last week that, man, it's kind of like to kind of empty the notebook, like the stories you get when coaches get fired and you kind of get it all like at the end of the season. It's kind of like there are a lot of amazing details in there.

Including stuff like, I mean, DeForest Buckner, who's like a defensive tackle. I mean, he was huge for that Niners team and then they eventually traded him, but DeForsbunner's like a leader in the team. And apparently he told Anthony Richardson straight up, quote, I signed an extension here because I believed in you. You have to do your part, which is just a brutal thing

to hear from a veteran. And the other thing that I couldn't believe was they, Zachie, they highlighted this quote from Billy Napier, who's the coach at Florida, who has his own issues, but he was the coach at Florida. And in March 2023, before Richardson was drafted, Billy Napier, his coach at college said, was asked, what

is Richardson need to improve on the most? And Billy Napier said, growing as a leader, having conviction with his voice, speaking with clarity to be kind of the standard bearer for the entire organization. Which is like such a brutal thing for a college coach to say. Like it's nothing on the field.

You're like, I don't know if he's a leader. Which in retrospect, you're like, how the hell did the cults? You know, it's quite the leap of faith that they took. And Chris Ballard in this story, I couldn't, the GM of the team literally said, I couldn't believe this quote. He literally said, quote, I wish we had not played him as a rookie. Ballard said that. Things are not looking good.

Colts would be like one of my top bets to kind of enter and tail slide and fire everybody in two years and be one of the worst teams in the league. Yeah, just Richardson needs to be a pro, which is a brutal thing to say about a quarterback. But he needs to do with Josh Allen did. He needs to go to work with Carson Palmer's brother and just redo his footwork and redo all this stuff and like get his mechanics. And you have to make up in the off season for the lack of reps you're never going to make up for in your career. And then Chris Ballard needs to make him do that because Chris Ballard's going to be fired if Anthony Richardson doesn't work. And then Shane Steichen just needs to help that app. I don't know.

So the cults are kind of a mess. But yeah, I think the theme, though, of all these, looking at all these things, big picture, I feel like the theme is a lot of rookies save these people's jobs, to be totally honest, maybe less than Indianapolis. But I look at the giants. I just feel like Malik neighbors saved Brian Daibble's job, to be honest, because there's hope. Like Brian Daibel, or sorry, not Daibu, neighbors, very quiet. Neighbors also broke Bukinikua's record for catches by rookie in a season.

Oh, did he? I didn't even see that. But no one knows. Brock Bowers had more. But like Malik neighbors. Oh, yeah, that's right. He broke it briefly during Sunday and then Bowers came back and broke it like took over the lead again. So Malik Neighbors broke the Giants record for catches in a season.

Like not for a rookie, period. Like no one has more catches in a season in Giant's history than neighbors this season. Imagine if neighbors had had like Romadunze's season and it was fine. Yeah. But like the Giants had passed on Bo Nix and didn't take Michael Panix or whatever. Like the Giants, the Joe Shane and the GM would be cooked, but Shane, you know, but he got saved. the Raiders having Brock Bowers there's hope for the future the jaguars you trade back you got brian thomas we forgot about all the other mistakes you've made and like generally speaking a lot of

rookies bailed out bad organizations and like almost in a way that's going to keep them keeping the same people in charge that frankly kind of got lucky so i don't know that's kind of my takeaway from a lot of this story this draft class again i know we've said this recently so good looking back at this draft class i'm just like dude i mean you could you could nitpick with a few of these picks but like almost all these players, not almost all, but like a good chunk of these players are looking really solid for the future.

It really makes the Jalen Polk pick by New England looks so bad. But even like we're, we're complimenting the Giants for picking Malik neighbors, but literally right after our Michael Pennix, two picks later, J.J. McCarthy, four picks later. Bo Nicks, six picks later.

Like, I mean, it'd be nice to have a quarterback right now, too, if you're the Giants. But again, I think Neighbors gives them a little bit of a foundation where they can find a quarterback next year. in theory and like build around him. But yeah, I'm just looking at this class, man.

This class looks freaking good. I know I was, I feel like I'll be a little hyperbolic lately, but I really think that this is going to be historic class. Because imagine for a moment that J. Jim McCarthy is good for the Vikings. Boring health and health, like if Caleb's good, there's a world that like we could go six quarterbacks. I don't know if there's ever been a draft where six quarterbacks all look like

they're going to be average above average starters. That's like never happened. And again, five in 1983, they made a, they made a 30 for 30. about that draft. Like, that's what, like, that doesn't include the fact that Brock Bowers, neighbors, Brian Thomas, like, all these guys are doing historic stuff, pass catching, and you have the tackles.

And also, all the defenders in this historic offensive draft, a lot of the defenders already look good. Like, it's a, and it's the first six quarterback. It's not like, oh, a fourth rounder pop. Yeah. It's like literally they went six for six off the board. I know. It's crazy.

And then no one else went to Rattler in the fifth round. And even Rattler is, frankly, outperformed a fifth round quarterback, like he's playing. Like, most fifth rounders don't play. This is just a rare. It looks like a rare outlier class. It does. No, I think every year we're going to get six. Yeah, no, every year.

I sure hope so. That would be awesome. Okay, so speaking of the draft, let's just get into the draft right now. Again, we turn this whole show into the Ringer NFL draft show. So if you don't follow, hit the follow button because it's the only time we ever ask is when we're about to change the actual title of our show. We don't want to confuse anyone. So hit the follow button. But yeah, so we call DK scouts, frankly, ludicrous amount of people.

We're the only podcast that changes. Look, H. HBO did it. HBO went to Max. That was a clear success, right? Everyone loves that HBO drop Max, and everyone loves that we drop fantasy from the title. It makes perfect sense.

Find a new slant. So drop the fantasy. Just draft. Just draft show. Okay. Anyway. So, DK, you have a mock draft coming out on the ringer.com this week.

Again, 100% correct. Each pick. 100%. Yeah. So just why even watch the draft? Congrats in advance, honestly. Great job. Thank you.

Sick. So I just want to run through some of the highlights here, starting with first pick, Tennessee Titans. You gave them Shadur Sanders, quarterback of Colorado, son of Dion. I did it. I gave those, that team, that player. Can you give us, give us the, God, damn. Sorry, it just said it sounded so funny.

You gave them. You gave them. Delivered. Thank you. You're welcome. Why did you do Shadour over Cam Ward? Good question. and actually I was talking to our buddy East and Freeze

who covers the Titans. He's in the thick of it has been talking to like the fan base as kind of like I think his finger on the pulse of the fan base and it's basically like, what is the vibe right now in Tennessee? Who do they want? And he said it right now,

according to like what he's seen, it's Shadur Sanders 100%. I think there's an impression that Cam Ward is a little too much stylistically like Will Levis. I don't think, I think I like Cam Ward more than I liked Will Levis coming in. I love that you have to draft somebody different

even if they're not better. Like, you can't change somebody with the same. Yeah, it's just like, you know what? Young, you have to replace with old and vice versa. And a disciplinarian, you have to have a player's coach and vice versa. It's just, it's just people can't handle the same thing. Shadur fits the, what the offense is supposed to be with Callahan. I think, you know, like playing on time, accuracy, toughness in the pocket, you know,

getting the ball out, disuring it to your playmakers, like kind of the opposite of what Will Levis has ultimately become. And he's just like a wild, like, wild horse. out there just doing whatever he can to like stay alive kind of deal. Shadir is going to like go in and like run this offense, I think. So I think that's like the impression why people like him. I think there's obviously like he's been able to handle the limelight, the whole like circus that is the Dion Sanders show. Is he handling the circus or are they the circus? Like he, I am the storm.

No, my impression is he's handling it well. He seems he comes off very mature. He's not like super mercurial or whatever. I don't know like, you know, like in, that building what he's like, what the impression is like. But, like, I think outwardly, he's done a good job of sort of being, you know, a calm factor in that storm or whatever. So, I don't know.

Like, look, this is, there's still a long time for this to go. And there's actually reports out today that the team really likes Cam Ward. I will say, that makes me just think it's not Cam Ward because this feels too early for them to, like, have that decision made already. You know what I mean? Like, I think there were, haven't you say, like, the Falcons didn't decide they liked Michael Panics until like March or early April. Well, it was clearly after they got Kirk Cousins.

Right. So I don't know. I think all these teams have to go through the entire process. There's a reason you do interviews. There's a reason you do all the testing. There's a reason you have them talk to, you know, like every coach and go into the background and trying to figure out who they are as a person. That's like the hardest part from our point of view is like trying to figure out who

these people are. Well, luckily they filled everything that's happened to Colorado since they got there and it's all just wonderfully magically available and all the documents. A lot of reality. I would give him a B on the maturity at best. I think there are some things that are a little weird to me about Shadur. Like, I don't know. The things that are maybe just alpha quarterback mentality that I couldn't

fathom of what it's like to do that. I do think the things that Shadur has that he does not get credit for, really high football IQ. Like, I think Shadur, like, he just, I don't know,

the two minute drills or just, he just really has a, I mean, he looks like his father was an NFL Hall of Famer. Like, he just understands the game. It's very slow for him. I also think Shudor Sanders is tough as fuck.

Like, Shudur is a tough son of a bitch. Like, I mean, it's kind of like Daniel Jones where, like, no one, no Giants fan who even hates Daniel Jones will say anything other Daniel Jones, but his like body on the line. Schroeder Sanders is out here in bowl games, just taking shots. Like, he just, he really like stands in the pocket and delivers. I think, I feel like the question of Shadur is the extending plays, right? It's kind of like, you know, it depends. Beauty's in the eye of the beholder where I think some people will say, oh, he has this like, not Mahomesian, but like he has this Mahomesian quality of like he is just, he's really good at

extending plays to create something downfield. And some people will say, holy shit, he just not get rid of the football, does it. He's going to take a trillion sacks. And I think that's going to be like a war shock test for him throughout the cycle. Right. But yeah, I think all that, I think all that, you know, clocks with me. I think, again, to me, it's like, this is not a situation where I'm like, my immediate reaction is like, should or Sanders should be the first pick in the NFL draft.

but this is the situation now. Like the Titans probably have to take a quarterback. And I think he or Cam Ward are going to be the 1A and 1B in my mind for this draft and take the quarterback position. I don't think there's anyone really else that's that close, at least right now. It's interesting because... But I think stylistically, stylistically, this one just makes more sense to me because of the style of which they play.

And the Cam Ward being a little too close in style to will let... Not even close, just like, you know, prone to making like a head scratching play, you know, intermixed with all the like cool stuff that Cam Ward does. Like he'll make a, he'll make a throw over here. Like, okay, what was that? So Cam Ward has, I feel, so Cam Ward, the quarterback from Miami. He's, I mean, the most passing touchdowns in the history of college football. Or sorry, passing yards in the history of college football.

I think he's like third or fourth in passing touchdowns. I mean, played, I mean, started his career, incarnate word. Right. And then like transfer, transfer, transfer to what was at Miami in the hurricane? which is like, that's like the entire spectrum of football, I feel like his incarnate word to Miami Hurricanes. But Cam Ward has the calmness in the pocket that like Lamar Jackson does without like any of Lamar's athleticism.

Like, you know, Lamar will just stand and there's like, Trey Hendrickson who leads to league in Sachs is like coming at Lamar? And he like, it's like a train. He's not getting out of the way. Like it doesn't care. Cam Ward kind of has that like irrational calmness in the pocket. Yeah, absolutely. There's a, there was a clip floating around on Twitter where he literally just

you know how quarterbacks will bounce on their feet when they're behind the pocket looking for something and he literally just stopped and just stood there Tom Brady used to do this every once in a while where he literally just stop and literally

not move but I think that's like it goes to what you're saying where he's just really cool you know collected he has some insane Houdini plays where he like escapes pressure you don't understand how the fuck he got out of there. Cam Ward does yes

not Tom Brady but yeah, I think and also he's a five-year starter which, you know, looking back now, like Jane Daniels did that, Bo Nix did that and it's like there's something there where just getting live fire reps on the football field against defenses, yeah. There does seem to be like,

I think a miscalculation I've made a lot in the past is confusing if you needed that many starts to be good, that's concerning and that was my issue with Kenny Pickett and I think that's true, but there is also certainly clearly a level where if you have played this much, college football, like Bo Nix having the most college starts ever. There's like, you are going to be tall enough to ride the ride if your habits are

professional enough. High Fitz, you've mentioned this before, but there's so much that goes into playing quarterback. Even before you snap the football, there's like a checklist that's like 20. You're 20 to 20 to 25 things every 40 seconds to just play to then play. Before the ball gets snapped. So I think that's like a good gut check on how hard it is to play quarterback and why the experience matters.

why having done this a lot of times, having the reps is so important. Because now you're going out on an NFL field where everybody on the other team is the best player you ever face in college. You know what I mean? And so there's just a massive, massive jump from college to the pros

and having that experience, having the muscle memory of just doing it, of saying plays or whatever it is, is such a huge advantage. I think that's a huge reason that Bo Nix is doing so well. He's like essentially a pro. He's been doing this for years.

So we're going to We're going to go on this. So you get the Titans Shitter Sanders to start. And I think we're going to have a lot of time to discuss whether, what Dion Sanders' involvement in all this is going to be. For right now, we don't know. So we can keep going on that. But then number two, you gave the Cleveland Browns, Travis Hunter out of Colorado.

This one was like me just defaulting to, I don't know if they're going to be willing to take a quarterback because of the quagmire they're in at the quarterback position. But I don't know. They obviously could take a quarterback here. So Watson, he had a setback with his Achilles. And they basically, I don't think Watson's ever going to play for the Browns ever again, to be honest.

I think that Deshawn doesn't want to go back there. I don't think the Browns want him back. I think they're stuck with his contract. He's just done playing football. I think he's done playing for the Browns and he's going to collect a ton of money and get healthy. And then if he waits long enough, what I think is really going on is the Browns have it. And I don't totally understand this, but basically the Browns have an insurance policy

in his contract in a way that actually provides them cap relief so that because he got hurt, it's better than if he just had sucked. Like the Browns actually are in a better position that he towards Achilles because it's almost like a tax write-off for the salary cap that he's hurt. And I don't want to pretend to fully understand that, but that's basically how it's been described to me. And so if they're like, oh, you had an Achilles setback, which maybe he did, but it's very convenient for them,

accounting-wise for him to have the cap set back with the-as-or-sor-sor-sor-sor-since. Because if he misses the season due to injury, they get a lot more cap relief and a lot more flexibility through the rounds to do stuff. I don't think he's coming back. I think he's going to be out with an injury long enough that eventually they will be able to just get him away in some kind of trade somehow, somewhere, and he will restart his career later a couple of years removed the Achilles, especially after how badly Rogers and Kirk Cousin started.

I don't think there's any reason for him to try to come back next year. And I think 2026, they might try to get rid of him. It'll be a great raider one day. Yeah, he'll be a great raider one day. Steeler's, Craig? Oh, my God. No way. So you have the brown steak and Travis Hunter, because it is weird to figure out what they're going to do.

I think they might take a quarterback, but if Travis Hunter, what do you think you do? There's also just the idea that they might not like Cam Ward enough to take him on number two. And that's totally, yeah. You know what I mean? Lord knows they've taken the wrong guy a lot of times. So here's my question for you with Travis Hunter. Do you think he can play? And again, Travis Hunter just won the Heisman trophy because he was an elite cornerback and elite receiver.

Do you think he that, do you think it's possible for Travis Hunter to do that in the NFL? Do you think he could be actually like a top 10ish receiver and a top 10ish cornerback at the same time? Or do you think he's going to have to pick? I think it's possible, but unlikely, that he's going to play like every snap of a game. You know what I mean? That's ridiculous. That would be poor coaching to me even try to have him do that. I feel like you.

You think it's ridiculous? I don't know. I think what you do is you should, I think he's a better corner than a wide receiver. Playing like 100% of the snaps dude, he would wear out so fast. I think he's a better cornerback than a wide receiver. And I think you should play him at cornerback and then use him in some situations offensively. But I do not think he can be an every down player on both sides of him. You can bring him in as more of a gadget guy, third down, slot, whatever,

but, like, he can't be your number one out there on offense and defense. I think it's ridiculous to expect him to do that immediately as a rookie. I do think he should be a cornerback, and frankly, it's going to be easier to rotate in probably as a receiver and, like, be a full-time cornerback, and then to come in, like, 20 steps a game on offense. Right. Like if Cadar's Tony, it was good.

But I actually think we should take the word ridiculous out of our vocabulary in a world where, like, Shahi Otani, and I know he's an alien in the point, but, like, in a world where Shaho Tani is out here, like, being, like, top five and, like, strikeouts per nine as a pitcher, and then also, like, you know,

having, what do you have, like, 40 home runs and 40 steals as a batter? That is so much harder than anything you see done. I know that's one guy. 50-50? Or am I crazy? Sorry, yeah, he went 50-50. Like, 50 homers and 50 steals.

And he also is a top, on a per-start basis, basically a top-10 starter in Major League Baseball. And in the world where that's possible, I'm not saying like, oh, like, but to me, to cap the ceiling on Travis Hunter, I just saw what he did in college. I know Colorado, like, the competition is like whatever. But to me, I actually think the real, like, there's absolutely a world where you try to develop him on both sides of the ball and you get neither. And you actually screw him as a cornerback.

You screw him up as a receiver and you get, you, you mess him up. But I think the real sin would be to not have the imagination of like, but what if he was like, champ Baileyish on defense and then like a top 20 receiver on office? Like, what if he was both those things? I kind of think you have to let him try. That's where I am, too. I'm just like, I'm not like, I'm not trying to say anything of like he can't do this. I think most likely though, like NFL coaches are just going to have him choose one position as a primary and then they would probably like, like Craig said, mix him in on offense.

Have it play 50% of snaps or 40% of snaps. There's a lot of slot receivers that are not playing every snap, you know, whatever. I'm not saying he's a slot receiver, but like a rotational guy in the offense versus like the, the, number one receiver on your team where you're out there 90% of the snaps or whatever. It just, to me, it just feels unrealistic or unlikely that that will happen. I'm not saying it's not going to happen.

But, I mean, I don't know. The NFL is a different beast in college as well. It's also a different beast in baseball. I mean, like, show you know,

he's not getting hit. 15 times a game. So show you know what I'm talking is a DH. You know what I mean? Like, he's pitching and then he hits and that's it. He's not tackling anyone. No.

Andy hurt his elbow and he had to get surgery. Travis Hunter playing in the NFL playing 120 snaps a game, 140 snaps a game. The cardio is nuts. I think the cardio is the easy part. I think the Knicks, he's probably like he's a little smaller to be trying to do that. I agree, but like, I don't know. The cardio is the hard part. Not the hard part, but the wear and hair on your body is is a hard part, I think.

That's fair. They play 17 games in the NFL. It's more than college. D.K., if he only played wide receiver, where would he be going in this draft? Ooh, that's a really good question. I mean, I think he's a really good receiver. I think he's one of the top, like, three receivers in this class.

And this is not a great, I don't think it's like an elite receiver class, but I probably put Ted McMillan Timmack over him if we're just talking pure receiver. But I think, like, the value is he, he's like potentially really good at two premium positions. You know what I mean? And so I personally, if I literally won the award drafted him, I would want him to be utilized on both sides of all. my contention is maybe not 100% on both sides of the ball. No, I think that's crazy.

He literally won the award for the Bolitnikoff Award for the best receiver, and he won the Bednarc Award for the best defender. He's a really good receiver. And he has insane body control. He has insane hands. He wins at the catchpoint. He's really, like, long and loose and limber. I said this.

He reminds me the way he moves, like Justin Jefferson. He's just like, you know how Justin Jefferson kind of has like, it looks like he made out of rubber, like the way he can move? It's like just kind of weird. That's what he reminds me of. I think we're all kind of on the same page. We're just kind of saying it in different ways. It's like, yeah, you could try it at both.

You probably can't go full throttle right out the gate. Probably start him as a corner first and mix him in on offense. See how that goes. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's the most realistic thing. I'm not saying he can't do it, but yeah.

Dude, that video of him dunking was something. He's an insane athlete. And I would be perfectly happy if the- I mean, he was the number one recruit in the country. like this is the best athlete in the country. That's the thing. I'm kind of like just, I don't want to,

I'm not the one to be the one to put a ceiling on him. That's kind of where I'm at. I'm like, I would like to let him, I would like to find that naturally. So, Deacon, so you have the Titans taking Shudder Sanders. And then again,

his teammate, Travis Hunter going second, which is two Colorado, one and two. Yeah. And then we're going to hear a lot from Deon this year. And then you have the Giants taking Cam Ward. We talked a little bit about Cam Ward, but basically, is this a reach?

Like, where would Cam Ward, slotted in last year. Now it's like, it's a little, you know. Like now he's the seventh quarterback off the board if it was 2024? Probably.

Well, well now, yeah, Boenix for 29 touchdowns. No one's, yeah, of course. You know, we just had changed in McCartford. I was just remembering last year, he would have been the seventh, he would have been the seventh quarterback taken last year.

This year, now that we know everything, it's hard to, hard to figure that out with like. I'm a little concerned. I won't lie that, like, Camboard, it's tough when I'm already talking about him in terms of like, well, he improved all five years of college. That's cool. He's going to keep getting better.

And it's like, that's a little concerning. That's the things I have to say myself. I like Cam Ward for the record. I do too. I think he's a baller. He'd be better than anyone who played quarterback for the Giants this year. That's, I mean that. Like, I think he could have stepped from Miami to the Giants and been better than Drew Locke,

other than that game where Drew Locke costs us the first pick. That's a low bar for your start a row row. I don't think, I don't think this is like a huge reach because quarterback is just such an important position. And like Hyphitz has said so many times, like, no one fucking knows anything about what I mean like I think he's got the skill set to be good in the NFL

that's like the only argument I can see as to why you should do it because I feel like no one is super thrilled with Cam Ward but it's like maybe that's just the argument to do it people didn't like Josh Allen people didn't like Justin Herbert you know exactly it's like you just have no idea you have to try like what is the avenue to get a quarterback

in any other means you know what I mean like I just think you have to try like you just you have to take the swing yeah if the Giants did take him at number three I would be excited for you if it's like I would I would be like I would be like this is fun this is really cool yeah that would be really fun um okay so then rolling through some of the rest of this picks and again dek his mock is going to be up in the ringer dot com on tuesday so some of the other picks here you have the patriots are

at fourth you have them taking will campbell the tackle at lSU i mean this one yeah they need to protect jake me he's clearly good i mean whoever the coach is ben jonson mike rable like they're going to want offensive lineman like you vederian low's not going to get done a tackle for the Patriot. So I think that one's a no-brainer. By the way, before we move on too far, Austin's pointing out, Deon Sanders did play a corner. He was an all-pro corner and caught 36 passes for almost 500 yards and four touchdowns. Dionne Sanders.

I feel like is that the ultimate ceiling that we could see in reality, like 500 yards? And that's my thing with reality. You know what reality is? Dionne Sanders 35 years ago. 1996. Had a pick six on Monday night football. and then the next day at a home run in the World Series

in 24 hours. He did that. Like, we were allowed to, that wasn't even that long ago. You know what I mean? It is cool that he's connected to Deon Sanders. Yeah, like,

I'm just saying, like, and that guy is teaching this guy to do it. Like, I don't, and that's where I'm like, I'm not betting against Travis Hunter being playing the same sport a lot. Like, Dion Sinai,

he played the World Series. Yeah, that's fair. He was defensive player in the year or whatever. I don't know. I still think that's not the same, but how is it, but like, why? It's literally different people.

Why? Playing football twice is not the same as playing football and baseball. I just think that's not the same thing. I think football and baseball is way harder. Like you're going to be on a, you're going to be a baseball player and a football. Those are different unrelated teams. You're misunderstanding me.

I'm only speaking about physically what's harder, not like skill-wise, it's harder to hit a baseball or something. I'm saying strictly the toll on his body, the wear and tear, playing baseball and football, not close to playing double football. The physical toll, sure, but I also think the fear that he could get injured is not worth justifying the fact that you could have a great cornerback that will probably be the best receiver in your team. Like, let's just say the Giants or let's say the Browns take Travis Hunter and he plays

cornerback for them. I think Travis Hunter is better than fucking Jerry Judy, dude. Like, you know what I mean? It's like you're going to start like, you know, like Cedric Tillman gets hurt. You're going to roll out someone other than Travis Hunter. You're not going to give him a back. It's like, he's on the team. That's all.

No, like we said, you absolutely should use him because he can do both. But all I'm saying is like, I don't know if you can just throw him out there and have him play two positions for immediately. We'll see. It'll be fun. The fact that it's even possible to talk about is insane. Dare to dream, Craig. Dare to dream.

Yeah, she was a little bigger. I can't get on Dundance instead of pick six on one-eyed football and then in a fucking world series. Dude, Travis Hunter's windmill or not windmill, between the legs dunk that he did like a month ago, there's like 15 starting point cards in the NBA that can't do that. Yeah. And then so the next tier you have your D.K., I think the Patriots taking Will Campbell tackle makes a ton of sense.

And then there's a group of guys that I think I would put all together. You've got, and it's all in a bucket, right? You get, like, you know, the Jaggs could take, you know, Ted McMillan and like parent with Brian Thomas or the Raiders have Will Johnson, a cornerback at a Michigan who's incredible. And the Jets, Mason Graham at a Michigan defensive tackle that I think, frankly, I mean, I think everyone in the day. Big Ten's happy that he's not in Michigan anymore. Panthers taking Abdul Carter to Penn State, who's just doing the Michael Parsons

cosplay of all the people who weren't 11 at Penn State. That to me is just a tier of like whatever you need, like they're all good. Like Abdul Carter, like if you want a pass rush or he's going to work. You want a defensive tackle, Mason Graham will be good. You want a quarterback, Will Johnson will be good. Like McMillan, you need a receiver. Like all those guys to me are just a tier of like blue chip guys who will be good. Is that a fair way to look at this draft decay is like two quarterbacks that are complicated.

And then there's like four awesome players and a few good tackles. I'm like, that's the blue chip guys. There's like, called six, call it 12, whatever, but there's a small group of like awesome guys, and then it kind of tails off after that, right? I think, yes, I think that's fair. At least where I am right now in prepping for this, that's how I feel.

I was going to ask you your guys' impression because this one I could see people getting kind of annoyed or upset about, but like me sending Ted McMillan to the Jags after they just got Brian Thomas. I don't think that, I think the Jaguar is considering they gave up the most, I believe the most passing yards in the NFL last. year and their cornerbacks are bereft of talent, they would probably go Will Johnson over to

Michigan. That was probably like where I would lean. Yeah, I mean, maybe that might be the case. But just like to me, if you look around all the offenses right now, it's like the Eagles, AJ Brown, Devante Smith, Bengals, Jamar Chase, T. Higgins, Lions, Alman Ross St. Brown, Jameson Williams, Vikings, Jefferson, Addison. Like the best offenses in the NFL have two really good receivers. And so I'm just building a world where Trevor Lawrence can finally be as good as we think like he's supposed to be. So I don't know. I just thought that one was like,

it's hard to pick for the Jags because bulky is a weirdo, but. They've been so bad that they have first round picks at every position. Is that what you mean? But they've been bad enough to just keep having players. To me that was one of the more fun. They need everything.

They made more sense to me to have the next pick the Raiders taking Tet, honestly. I mean, that would be fun too. Then you just got to figure out who the quarterback is, which hint hint hint, I made it. Yeah. So you have the Raiders. six with Will Johnson, but you have them trading back into the first round with whoever ends up

winning the Super Bowl. And you have them getting Jalen Milrow to Alabama. What Jalen Milrow, I think, is, I don't know what to make of him as a quarterback prospect. What do you think of Jailen Milrow? Because he seems to me, the word I assume with Jailen Milrow I keep thinking of is he's chaotic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is it Jalen Milrow or Jailen Milro? It's definitely Milrow. I don't know why I said it that way. It's definitely Milrow. I don't know what I was doing there. I think he is so fascinating as a prospect. I mean, he's like, a guy who, I don't know, I think he was just going to run super, super fast, like four three. He's, he's extremely explosive runner, and he's got a strong arm, and he likes to push the ball

down the field. I think rough around the edges as a passer still, you know, there's been a couple games this year where he's just like very clearly just throwing the ball without reading the defense or whatever, and it's getting picked off this out of the other thing. So I think there's like a development arc there that would make me a little uncomfortable, taking him at, you know, the top 10. but as a second round or late first round type of player, like I would be excited if my team got him

just because I think the skill set is so, um, it's just a scintillating skill set. You know what I mean? It's like not to, not to just like compare him to another Alabama quarterback, but like Jalen Hertz style where you could incorporate him into the run game. Maybe Jane Daniels light,

you can incorporate him into the run game. The way things that he can do with his legs make it really hard to stop you on third down and fourth down. Um, and you know, he improved a lot at passing down the field. this year. So there's just like some things to like. I think he's going to be one of the more polarizing guys though in this draft class. Some people are going to think he's like, you know, Anthony Richardson or whatever where the accuracy and the decision making is not

going to be enough. But he's a lot of fun to watch though. Milrow is definitely going to be a Justin Fields guy where as even if he's a terrible real life quarterback, you will be playing him in fantasy just because the rushing's going to be really good. Well, and his his status was much better right after last year. It was this he hasn't played as well, right? Last year he was kind of good. No, I think he's definitely improved this year. But it's been sort of like two steps forward, one step back.

He's had a couple of bad games where he's had multiple turnovers. And, you know, there was a stretch during the college season where people were talking about him as like a top 10 pick. And he was going in mocks in the top 10. And I think he's kind of like the way he finished the season, you know, people are cooling on him a little bit. But I still think he's throughout this process. we saw this with Anthony Richardson's like he's such a good athlete. He could move his way up just because of the physical talent, the physical skills. So there's a story where it's like Bill O'Brien, who's, you know, he was the Texas coach forever in Belichickie. Then he was running,

I think, Boston College now. And Bill O'Brien told Gillian Milrose should like not be a quarterback. And obviously it's like a very charged thing. But that that's going to be like the conversation is like this ball of athlete that like does he have like the decision making and stuff. And that, you know, it becomes a very complicated conversation. But like, he's not boring. Taylor Milrow is not, why am I going Millrow? It's Milro. He's not boring.

You can do that. You can go for it. Yeah. I'll ask him. Okay. So a couple other teams I wanted to hit here in this mock, D.K. Is honestly, it's just, it's just the teams themselves. The Bengals have the 17th pick, which again, Bengals missed the playoffs is brutal.

They need to like a hundred things to happen. Everything happened except the Chiefs beating the Broncos. So the Bengals are out of the playoffs. And you have them taking edge rusher, Shamar Stewart out of Texas A&M. And they just need a pass rush for frankly. You can put any pass rush here because Bengals need defense. And they actually, so they, you know, they kept Zach Taylor's head coach, but they fired their defensive coordinator Loua and Arumo. And I think, you know, I'm not surprised Taylor was safe.

Like, again, this is a team to get Marvin Lewis without a playoff win. Forever than the Iraq war. It's like Zach Diller made a Super Bowl. The offense was incredible. But this is a team that I think, frankly, Louana Rumo took the, he basically was sacrificed because the Bengals have developed one defensive starter in three years. like the Bengals let they kept the offense and they let guys like Jesse Bates at safety go who's now an incredible safety

like they let DJ Reader go and they drafted I mean the last 2023 their first three picks were Miles Murphy at defensive ended in Clemson DJ Turner Jordan Battle none of those guys are doing that well for them and then Dax Hill was the first rounder in 2020 he's kind of been a mess Cam Taylor Brits the only starter on defense

they've drafted in three years and I think that the Bengals season this year is to me best summarized by they have not developed anyone defensively at all And yeah, and that's like a huge, huge part of what they need to do because they're not going to be big spenders typically in free agency. So yeah, this, the whole theory I had for a long time was that like the Bengals are one of those teams that has like a very small scouting department, just like a handful of people. And they are more than other teams like willing to go with what sort of like the consensus draft people will say are good picks or whatever. They always get good grades.

Auto drafting. Honestly, like they're the auto drafters. They are. Not really. I'm exaggerating, of course, but over the years, I felt like that has served them very well. I think the last few classes, though, that that theory is not looking quite as good that they're, like, such a good drafters just because they don't go too far off of the consensus. But, yeah, I think, Haifitz, you nail it, though. It's like, this is what happens to a team, to any team, really, but, like, especially a team like the Bengals who aren't going to go spend huge money out in free agency typically, is if you, if you, like, flood a couple draft classes, like, that can say.

your team back, like multiple years. It's really, really hard. You need to get at least one or two really good to, like, great players in a draft to, like, really keep your team like consistently good year and and you're out. Having one great draft for a couple really good ones in a row is how a team like the Saints can become a Super Bowl contender again with Drew Breeze late in his career. And they're also missing the three of those in a row is how the Saints become the Saints where they are right now. 100%. It's a game of runs like anything else. And you get like a couple runs. And so the Bengals had a bad run. And that's why the Bengals have not made it back to the Super Bowl since they made it. And so, you know, this is tough for free agency, but the dirty secret

free agency for the NFL is that it's not fun because all the good ones don't hit free agency. The Bengals are not going to let Tehiggins go. I really think they're going to resign Jamar Chase and Tehagans. And I think that they're going to have even more pressure. And that's what I think this is really about is that they're going to, they're going to get rid of the idea of like, you want to spread out where you're spending your money. And they're like, you know what? We're going to keep these crazy special good players who are really good friends and taking care of each other. They're going to pay Burrow,

Chasen Higgins, who all care about each other. I mean, T. Higgins fired his agent and hired Jamar Chase's agent, like at Joe Borough's suggestion. Like, like this is, they're all in cahoots here.

So it's really important that the Bengals to develop a defense to avoid this from ever happening again, where they can have the leader in passing yards and the leader and receiving yards and the leader. And George Chase won the triple crown and the trainds and led the league in sacks. They missed the playoffs. So developing a defense is going to be the, admission ticket for Joe Burr to the playoffs.

They are not going to be able to spend money on defense again. They have to get these picks right. So I thought I like that was an interesting spot there. The other one I want to ask you about it. So the Seahawks taking Tyler Booker, a guard out of Bama, and I want to ask you, so the Seahawks, Mike McDonald, the head coach, they fired Ryan Grub, the offensive coordinator, who was at Washington and he had been around.

So I'm curious, what do you make of the Seahawks firing Ryan Greb of coordinator? Yeah, this is an interesting one. I think throughout the whole season, I was like, generally I'm pretty happy with him. I think he's like shown some signs of improvement and like adapting and all that. I was never super like, oh, I really believe in him. They should never fire him. That would be stupid of them to fire him.

I was just more like, like I generally like him. He does some good things. I like his screen game. I like some of the things he does in the passing game. The big problem, and I think this is the reason he was fired ultimately is like they just could not run the fucking ball at all. They sucked at running, especially in high leverage running situations. like third and short and fourth and short

and in the goal line area. They were awful. A team that had two different second round picks at running back and Ken Walker and Sharbon and it could not run the ball. And honestly it's like maybe that's not 100% Grub's fault. Clearly, their offensive line,

the CX offensive line is awful. It has been, I mean, it's like I make fun of you, like you've never rooted for a Giants team that you want to actually win games. I've never rooted for a Ciox team with a good offensive line.

Like since like literally going back to like, 2005. Like, Seahawks had two Hall of Famers in Walter Jones. Walter Jones

and Steve Hutchinson on their left side. And that was like how Sean Alexander won the MVP. That was a huge part of the reason they went to the Super Bowl that year.

Ever since then, basically, I've just been trying to get back to that point where they have a somewhat decent offensive line. Every year it seems like they suck. And throughout the John Schneider era, it's almost just

gotten worse and worse all along. And so I think Grub ultimately couldn't do, He couldn't do enough in the run game to overcome the offensive line. He could do enough in the passing game to overcome it. But that's ultimately why I went with an offensive lineman here. I think honestly, like, if you talk to Stiox fans, if they just pick like seven offensive linemen in this draft,

like, see how fans will be happy. Like, just fucking find some offensive linemen for the love of God. We need an offensive line so desperately. It will fix, it would fix so many of the issues that we have on offense. That's obviously me being a little bit over-traumatic. But, like, they really, really need to figure out this offensive line because it's holding back the offense, and it's a huge part of the reason that grew up got fired.

I feel like with this draft where there's so many linemen, should we follow through on our bit where you just take seven offensive linemen, hope three or four good, and that's it. Think about how much of a difference it would make for your offensive line if you got two or three starters. I don't care if you waste the rest of your draft. Seven in a row, three of them will hit. Because part of me is like...

Just play odds. In theory, if you just had them every year and you just flipped them, I'm like you would always get more than, you're always worth more. Like there's no trademarked for offensive linemen. Like a good lineman's traded every other year. And like, oh, well, if you had a bunch, everyone would know you have to trade them.

Fuck that. There's always going to be more teams trying to trade them. Like, no one's going to be like, oh, you have to get rid of them. No, there's always going to be buyers for linemen, man. Like, even the Eagles have all these and they don't give them away. There's so, so few teams that have a good offensive line in the NFL. It's like fantasy with running backs.

You just draft eight running backs. People will need them. You could trade them. Draft 12. I really, it's funny though, but like, I keep saying that as a joke, but I keep wondering, like, just if you had just added Baker Mayfield, the quarterback and just taken any tight end and just like, you know, ironically, this year, you would have ended up with like Brian Thomas at receiver, and you probably would have won your league automatically.

But like, you will always be able to flip a fantasy running back for more later. And a part of me is like, just hire the best offensive line coach. That's what the titan should do. They should draft a quarterback and five more offensive linemen. And then they have the best offensive line coach. You'd be a factor. It's honestly closer to like European soft. where there are like teams that their whole thing is they develop players and sell them to keep the lights on.

So they're just they never pay them. They just keep them going or like the raise in baseball where they don't pay any of the talent they develop. They just like are there on a third of the budget and they just keep the Mariners and Nays. They're yeah. I don't know if NFL teams believed in math, which they're probably 10 years away from still, it's like part of someone would probably explain to them that that definitely is the best idea is just develop offensive line. And you'll literally just never run out of business. Well, this is like where I mean, this is where when making mock drafts just like from my point of view, I'm always trying to to look at team needs and what teams might be interested in the most in any position or whatever.

But like at the end of the day, honestly, like, every team could take an offensive alignment. I'd be like, yeah, that's fine. Like, I don't care if you have the best offense line in the NFL. If you take alignment, I'm like, good. Now you have an extra guy in case the guy gets hurt. Because inevitably, someone's going to get hurt. So I think, like, above all, like, quarterback and offensive line are the two positions that, like, you can't. You can't have too many of those guys in your, in your.

on your roster. Okay, I can't wait for the Giants to take a cornerback receiver coming up in the draft. That'll be great. After their line sucks again. Okay, that's all we got. DK.'s mock drafts up at the ringer.com on Tuesday. And again, we're going to be the NFL draft show for the offseason. We're covering the playoffs.

We're covering everything. But again, we're going to dive into the draft, get free agency, combine senior bowls coming up. That's like three weeks away. So we're very excited for that. And then, yeah, stick with us. Thank you, DK. Thank you, Craig. Thank you, Carlos.

Thank you, Austin. Thank you. everybody for listening. Email us at ring your fantasy football at gmail.com. Thank you, Lauren. Lauren. Thank you.

Johnny Cash. Hey. Have I done him recently? I don't think so. Probably. Maybe. It's okay. I like Johnny Cash.

He's in the new Bob Dylan movie. He's in the Bob Dylan movie. That's actually why I thought about him, Craig. Did you see a good? I have not seen the movie yet, but I've seen some of the clips. I thought the movie was great. Yeah. I need to see the movie, actually.

Timmy's really good in it. like shockingly good and I think he should honestly win best actor at the Oscars. Wow. Nice. Which would make him the year. It's too bad the movie theater. There's an Alamo draft house near us

but it just got shut down by the health department. So, but it's close. The part of we kind of listening is good. I don't know. Just don't eat anything. Oh yeah.

That's a good idea. I know, but it's still like a little weird. Yeah, highly recommend very enjoyable movie. It's not really about anything. Yeah, I was going to ask like,

what's like, what is the, elevator pitch for the movie is just like the life of a unique person. It's the path of Bob Dylan going electric in the early 60s in New York. Yeah. So it's kind of like a transition. It's folk to rock.

It's like the movie. But they actually don't get into Bob Dylan a whole lot. They don't really tell you the why. They just show you what he's doing. But Timmy is like the fact that I'm watching Timothy Salome who's dating Kylie Jenner and I'm watching like Bob Dylan

in a movie in the 60s and not once. Am I like, that's Timothy Shalame? I'm like, oh, yeah, that's Bob Dylan. Oh, okay. I actually think that's the highest bar for an actor of someone who's famous enough like Shalmay where they're promoting this business, their movie on their own. That's how I felt about DeCaprio and Wolf of Wall Street, where I was like, I kind of forgot he's Leo DeCaprian, which is like the hardest thing to do. 100%. I mean, this guy was Willy Wonka, Paul Atreides, and now Bob Dylan in 12 months.

And I'm like, yeah, it worked. I mean, that's impressive. He's the Travis Hunter of movies. Did I ever tell you guys that Jackie's parents? parents got wonkaed. They like went to see it and they were like, did you know it was a musical? And I'm like, got wonkid. Got wonkid. Bob Dylan, a lot of music and Bob Dylan.

Got getting wonka. Yeah. Flip the wanka grunt. All right. Goodbye, everyone. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Fandul is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC.

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