The Ringer NFL Show - Last-Second Risers, Injury Updates, and Tricky First-Round Picks

Episode Date: September 8, 2020

We talk about Alvin Kamara's and Dalvin Cook’s contract situations, brief you on COVID-19's impact on NFL rules and fantasy football team management, break down roster cut downs, discuss injury updates, answer listener questions, and more. Alvin Kamara and Dalvin Cook (4:53) COVID-19 rules update (9:36) Roster updates (15:57) For last-second draft advice, check out The Ringer Fantasy Football Draft Guide! Host: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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in a socially distant manner. You can spot that green bottle from six feet away, 12 feet away if you really want. It's just, it's the perfect thing to relax because you can enjoy it's not too much. It's not too little. It's Goldilocks. It's perfect.

We love Goldilocks in this show. And we love Heineken. So pick up a pack or have it delivered today and please drink responsibly. This is the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. I'm Danny Heifitz here with Danny Kelly and Craig Orlbeck. I said Orlbeck. Oh my God.

I just left the H off. I just locked it right off. That's the worst letter to leave off. Yeah. Because it just sets the tone for the rest of the name. Craig Horleback. Thanks. Quarterback for the Chargers.

Guys, we have football in two days. It's amazing. Actually, it's hard to believe that. It doesn't feel real. It's all confusing because the NBA playoffs are on. There's no preseason football. I don't know where I am. Yeah, it's weird.

But I'm excited. Usually you're like, oh, my God, how did that happen so fast? And this year, it's like, oh, don't talk about that. Yeah, we don't need to talk about that. Yeah, we don't need to bring it out. But, yeah, wow. Patrick Mahomes, Deshawn Watson on Thursday. night, which... Incredible.

Underrated matchup, because the last time these teams played, was when the Texans were up, what was it, 24-0-0? Yeah. And then the Chiefs came back, which I imagine, was on Deshawn Watson's mind every single day of the list. Yeah. However long that we won't talk about. And you know what?

He's going to lose again. Hot take. Ooh, Lock it in. Cheats are better than the Texans. Lock it in. And then also Tom Brady and the Bucks. That is happening this week. We're in a flawed simulation or something.

It is absolutely, what a crazy freaking sentence. Tom Brady, Tampa Bay Buccaneers sent quarterback. So yeah, that's happening. So let's get this out there. So we're recording a little bit of a different schedule this week. It's Tuesday. You're hearing this on a Tuesday. We're going to have another show on Thursday this week, Labor Day.

Screwed everything up, but we still wanted to be with you. And normally we record a couple days in advance. But today, I'm just going to be refreshing Roto World as we talk, just in case something happens. Because there's news coming out every minute. So just letting you guys know. And there are more fantasy drafts this week than usual. I think because of coronavirus, a lot of people push their draft as close to the season as possible. I at least anecdotally in my own life,

I have just more interest in people I do leagues with who wanted to draft on Tuesday or Wednesday specifically. So we wanted to do a little more draft just at the last second, so basically last second risers really. Like, who are the people shooting up draft boards? Literally since cut down down down Saturday and news

and some surprises, some not so surprises. And then also just who's, you know, actually last second risers. But first, we also just want to get into just rules are different this year. Like, Basic stuff is hard to understand, like injured reserve and everything with coronavirus. So, DK, you're going to be our expert, our Sherpa, to guide us through this bizarre journey. I'll do my best. Before we get that, let's just do a quick update on just a couple of the holdout stuff,

just to put a button on this. First up, Alvin Camara, and it is Camara. I can't believe I've been screwbin on that out this month. We've known this for like several years. I know, but then I lost it. It's like I forgot how to throw to first base. I just doing it my whole life. Kyle Brandt just confirmed it, too.

I think that was from a while ago. Oh, is that not recent? It was from several years ago. We have Alvin Camara. Let's just play the Camara thing. Let's just nip this once and for all. You got to help me out with something, man. We do your highlights all the time on the show.

We show you jumping in the stands, jumping over people. Camara or Camara? I say Camara. You say Camara. I've been saying Camara. Russell Wilson and Sierra said Camara. Yeah, it's all good. It's just how it rose off your tongue.

How the A rose off your tongue. I want this official. Alvin Camara says it is Camara. Yes. So, Hyvitz, you sent me that clip as if it was new. Why did I think that, why did you send me that from two years ago? Because I just wanted to get the sound so we could put it in this episode. That's so much less relevant.

I thought you were like, we have to play this. It wasn't like this week. Danny, you actually mentioned this like a year or two ago. Didn't he, didn't Camara say his mom pronounces it? Oh, no, that's Tarad Taylor. That's Tyrod Taylor. Oh, she says Tarad? Okay.

Or Tyrod. That's Tyrod Taylor. She says Turad. She says Turad. The first name differently, which is why it's. confused. Anthony Lynn calls him Tyrod. I think he's one of those guys that's like you can say it however you want.

That's like me. You can include the H or not. Whatever you want. I'm sick of correcting people. Just say it whatever you want. For God's sake, please include the H. Oh, please include. So you got to say it. Camara says however rolls off the song anyway, for the love of God. It's Camara. Yes. Jeez, that was just a disaster.

Alvin Camar is going to sign so all the people who drafted him. Yeah. It'll be fine. Basically the saints are going to sign him. Adam. Shefter reports, we're recording this on Tuesday. They're extremely close to a deal. I don't care whether they signed a deal or not signed a deal. They're not getting rid of Alvin Camara this year.

DK. Well, I don't think anybody was worried they were getting rid of him. I think they were worried he was going to miss games. He said today, quote, never held out in my life. Yeah. Well, I mean, there's, okay. I mean, he's only 25. This is his first contract negotiation.

There was no opportunity. He's never held out before. That's the whole thing, right? He was literally not able to do so before. Yeah. No big deal. But just to reiterate one last time, the Saints this weekend were trying to sign Judevian Clowny so badly, despite having no cap space, that they were actually going to have the Browns signed Jadavia and Clowny and then trade a second round pick to the Browns to get

Clowny and get under the cap. Just to be clear, they were going to trade a second round pick for $5 million. In cap space. In cap space. Yeah. So if they're willing to do that, they're not getting rid of Alabama. They're going all in. They're going all in this year. The idea of 2021 does not exist to the Saints. So they're not getting rid of them. It's going to be fine.

Don't worry. Well, 2021 might not exist for anybody. Exactly. It's a smart move. This is all meaningless. This is now a nihilist podcast, by the way. And to everyone listening, you want to also go in all in because this will be the last fantasy football season.

There will be no more. Nothing matters. So if your draftings. You know. Your bones will turn to Dustin Ash in 2000 years from now. We will all just be a distant memory of a dream. The point is, if you're drafting. tonight or whatever before the season, take him and don't think about it. Confidence in Camara.

Do you guys feel the same way for Dalvin Cook? Do you feel the same way about Dalvin Cook? Are you just, no hesitation, draft him fifth overall, D.K. Go ahead, Craig. On Bill's podcast when he had Matthew Barry on, Matthew Barry said that he was in a draft with Adam Schaefter, and he was saying that if Dalvin Cook doesn't sign by opening day, he'd be worried that Cook's going to miss several games. What's opening day? Well, what is Adam Shefter know? What does Adam Schaeffer know? Yeah, Matthew Berry, I believe, said opening day. I don't know if he means the Chiefs Texans game or week one. Either way, it's alarming.

Anecdotally, I was in a draft last night, actually, and I was at the sixth spot, and both Cook and Derek Henry were on the board. The big four were gone. I took Derek Henry because I was a little bit worried about Cook. Damn, you took the big dog. I went with the big dog because, well, number one, Craig has been really kind of changed my mind a little bit about him. But also, like I was actually a little bit, just slightly, just enough to move him. him down like one or two spots like we talked about on a previous episode. It's just one of those things where you don't want to screw up that first pick, man.

And if Cook misses a few games, it could be a problem. And Derek Henry, I believe the Titans only left two running backs in their roster, Derek Henry and rookie Derrington Evans. So, I mean, they're all in on Derek Henry. On the big dog, they're going to let them eat. And if Cook falls, see, just make sure you handcuff him with Alex Madison, and maybe DK's favorite player, Mike Boone. Okay, so that's how we feel.

Let's get into some of these new stuff around COVID. there's a lot of new stuff around the NFL, but specifically for fantasy, I think the two things that are important to know are just the practice squad's different, like cuts are confusing, and then really just injured reserve is different. Dika, do you want to go into that?

Yeah, so this actually does potentially impact fantasy. So I'm just going to run through it really quickly. So you know, so you kind of have this in your back of your mind during the season, during your draft, whatever. The new practice squad rules, there are now 16 practice squad spots as opposed to normally 10,

including six veterans. So in other words, you can bring back a 41-year-old Josh McCown to your practice squad, which is exactly what the Eagles are doing, paying him like 12 grand a week to essentially be a coach, right? Josh McCown was coaching high school football like eight years ago. Yeah. So anyways, good work if you can get it, 12 grand a week or whatever it is to be on the Eagles

practice squad. So anyways, there's more guys on the practice squad. Basically, it gives teams more flexibility in their roster on game days. If guys come down with COVID during the week, it gives them the flexibility. it gives them the flexibility to elevate these guys to the active roster. In fact, teams can elevate two players in any given week to the active roster without actually giving them a new contract. And so essentially, teams are going to have two extra guys to use on game days.

You don't have to put them through waivers if you want to put them back on your practice squad. So at the end of the day, those practice squad guys are probably not going to be fantasy relevant, but they are someone, they are players to keep in mind, like in case a big name star ends up getting COVID or getting hurt or whatever. These are the types of guys that can come into to play. The injured reserve rules are much more fantasy relevant because now teams can put guys, they can put as many guys on injured reserve and bring as many guys back on injured reserve as they want throughout the season. And instead of the old rule, which was if you go on the injured reserve,

you have to wait six weeks to come back and blah, blah, blah. Now it's only three weeks. Basically don't get faked out by the fact that a few fantasy relevant names are on the injured reserve to start. the season. The big name right now to keep in mind is a guy that we've been hyping up, Damien Harris from the Patriots was placed on the Andrew Reserve. Devastating. It is, it's disappointing because he's not going to play for the first three weeks, but he's not someone to completely take off your radar because it doesn't sound like,

is a pinky injury. He had to have surgery on his pinky, I believe. It's not like a long-term injury. He could come back by week four and be a fantasy factor. So that's just something to keep in mind. Two thoughts on that. First, do you remember there was an offensive lineman in college? I forget the college like 10 years ago. who had a pinky injury. He was a senior and it was going to take him out for the entire year

and therefore the rest of his football career. And so he just had the pinky amputated. Oh my God. He just literally cut it off and they're like, why? And he's like, I would rather lose my pinky than lose my final senior season of college. It's a liability, you know?

You gotta cut him loose. And I'm not saying that Damien Harris is soft. I love him. But if he wanted to play in the other hand, he could. God damn it, Danny. This is an amazing take. No, I love Damien Harris is soft.

No, I love Damien Harris and the point is that Damien Harris on Injured Reserve for, I mean, all of our sporting life, basically, injured reserve was synonymous without for the season. And then the last two years or so, three years, they changed it.

So it's like, actually, that player could come back by week 10, JK. And now it's like, actually, they won't even miss a month. It's now like, we have to now read tea leaves on Injured Reserve of, is this personnel for the year?

Is this personnel for three weeks? and maybe their buys in, so maybe they're going to miss two games. That's so completely different. Injured reserve could mean two games in theory. So, yeah. So let's just keep in mind during drafts. And again, I was in that draft last night.

I took Damien Harris late in the draft. And someone was like, isn't he on IR? And I'm like, yeah, but, you know, only for three weeks. So that's definitely something to kind of keep in mind. Don't necessarily give up. And it's three weeks, D.K., as in three, like, it's three football games. Is it not three weeks in, is it three weeks in, like, normal time, or is it three football games?

I believe it's three weeks in. like time rather than three games. So if somebody were to have a bi-week when they were on their three-week IR stint, they would have to miss three games no matter what, or would the buy-week count? I believe it's the bi-week counts, but we'll go in, we'll dig deep in the rulebook and look that up. Who is more powerful? Right now we don't have to worry about it. Who's more powerful setting time, the NFL or the space continuum?

I mean, is there a difference at this point? Yeah, exactly. All right, so not going to lie, the interview. reserve part's more important than the practice squad part to terms of fantasy football. So yeah, don't get scared if you see IR anymore. So sticking with that, cut down day was Saturday and let's just roll, I mean, we're going to run a little news,

but let's just stick with the Patriots for right now. Damien here is an injured reserve. Lamar Miller, who the Patriots had signed was cut. What do you guys make of the Patriots backfield right now? Sonny Michelle's going to end up with 200 carries again. I think, no, I think it's again, James White is the most interesting

one to me right now because he is. he always has been and he always will be. I think I saw Mike Rice, you know, very good Patriots B report for ESPN, said that they're going to ease Sony Michelle in. He believes they'll ease Sony Michelle in to the beginning of year. So like early on,

what matters this week, I think is that James White's going to get a lot of play. Rex Burkhead sprinkled in, maybe. Craig is, is sipping tea because he's so excited to do a victory lap around James White. Yeah, all you guys are wrong about every, everyone. Oh, which Pat's back is it going to be this year? We do this every year.

it's none of them except James White. He'll be there before September Reds. He's like Green Day. Don't worry about him. Sure. So James White's the guy. James Ward's probably going to catch all the passes. I still like Damien Harris. And then I guess we do have to admit Sony Michelle

is, seems like he's going to play. He's pretty openly like not in shape. He's basically like, yeah, you can't make up for lost practice time. Like, I won't get that back. Football shape is different than shape, shape, though. Yeah, that's true. But I appreciate Sony Michelle just openly admitting.

Yeah, no, he can't get time back. That man has perspective. Highfitz has now said that Damien Harris is soft and that Sony Michelle is fat and out of shape. Yeah, what is that? Do you want me to share your street address for all those? Just burning the bridge to the Patriots. I'll go on the run forever like Hewle and Breaking Bad. I'm just going to sit in a motel room hiding from Boston people.

I hope Bill doesn't listen to any of that. Okay. Let's just keep going. The biggest news of the week, well, there's a lot, but the one that I think landed closest to us. This is Mitchell Trubisky named Bay. Bears starting quarterback, which... Craig is so pissed because literally every time I've asked him, what's going to happen with this over the off-season?

He's like, it's going to be Foles, obviously. So I guess I underrated the fact that this is like a... this is like a David Johnson, Bill O'Brien situation, where I guess the Bears look better if Trubisky's good. That's the thing. And the coaching staff looks better. Yeah, and Foles didn't separate himself, apparently, in practice. And that's what all the beat reporters said, too.

Like, he just didn't do anything to separate. So they had to go with Trubisky. Isn't there like this Pirates of the Caribbean bit where like Jack Sparrow's like tied to Barbosa and their sword fighting or something and their enemy. That's Trubisky basically. It's like they're in Ryan Pace,

the GM just their fates are so tied together that it's like even though benching Trubisky is obviously the play that Ryan Pace is so tied his career to Trubisky that they can't give up on him. And honestly look at this point, making fun of Chubisky isn't fun anymore. I barely derive pleasure from it. Bless his heart.

He didn't ask for this. Like he didn't, you know, I just, yeah, I do derive some pleasure. I barely derive any. I would be lying if I said I didn't at all. Yeah. But the point is at this point, he's so unexciting. He is not drafted in fantasy right now.

He's basically unowned Trubiski is. So let's just play devil's advocate for a second. What's his best case scenario for fantasy? Because it's not like he's awful. He's in the Josh Allen class of don't watch him play. You might throw up. But if you look at the end of the game, he might have rushed for 80 yards and threw three touchdown.

You never know. You don't want to know how bad it was. but from week four to week 10 of 2018, which is a totally arbitrary statistical time frame I chose because it made it look good. That's the most fantasy, like, analyst thing, bullshit thing to say,

where you just like make up your own staff. I started from when he threw six touchdowns in a game and then I went until he got hurt. I went 100% endorse that, I went to a specific time frame I chose. He was the second best fantasy quarterback from behind Patrick Mahomes in 2018. And is that arbitrary?

Yes. Who cares? That's like almost two full months. So is it possible that, Trubisky just is decent this year? Or am I just trying to force this? Because I don't know what else to say about how bad he is. I do think that we are all too quick to judge quarterbacks now. I mean, I think that if you have a bad rookie season, you're pretty much written off unless you get really lucky. And you know what? Is it possible that Mitch Trubisky could be getting

incrementally better each year? And maybe this year is a larger increment than the years past. It's definitely possible. Maybe Nick Foles is the reason why he's going to step it up this year. And it kicked him in the ass. Let a fire under his ass a little bit. I definitely think it's possible. Human development is not linear. I know this for a fact because I spent my entire 20s doing jack shit. And then eventually,

you start to realize that you have to retire someday. And then, you know, so then you kick it into gear a little bit. Maybe that, maybe, you know, the first couple of years of Trubisky's career were his 20s.

He was just kind of having fun. And now he's really realizing if he doesn't kick it into gear, you know, the kid is 6 to 26 years old. He's born August 20th, 1994. This kid, Mitch Trubisky is literally me. Like, this is the exact... Is that your birthday? Wait, you and Trubisky is the same birthday? I'm August 2nd. He's

August 20th, but we're at the same year, same age, same height. Here's the thing about Trisky. We say, really mean things behind your back, too. I'm just saying, you know what I mean? Like, would you look at me and be like his career's over? You're like, no, maybe it's just getting started. You know, Trubisky, we'll see. So on one hand, yeah, and on the other hand, I actually completely disagree. Like, in Mitchell Trubisky's life, you know what, he's not defined by being an athlete. He's made plenty of money. He's provided for his family and his grandchildren and his grand-grandchildren can all profit. And, like, he has achieved the American dream,

even if he has not made people who talk shit about him on podcasts or on Twitter happy. I don't know if he's made enough money for his grandchildren. In terms of the... That's true. Inflation, who knows? The NFL, though, the reason we're so hard on him is because he's been doing this for year three and has not demonstrably gotten better. Like, that's the nuts and bolts is like...

No, the reason we're hard on him is because they took him over Mahomes and Deshaun Watson. Yeah, that's not his fault. But that, no, seriously, that's not how. his problem. It's not, to me, it's not about comparing him to people. He didn't draft himself. The problem is he hasn't really gotten much better despite multiple years in Nagy's system, and he's still having problems with the most basic aspects of doing his job, like making, like, to read throws. Look, I mean, you're right. We're obviously, we're participating in the devil's advocacy here, but. Oh, yeah, right. Sorry. As I said, I do still derive some joy from this. So,

all right, let's just, hey, if we're going to actually play a devil's advocate, though, I want to actually play it. Oh, I think there is a, there is a world in which he could, actually be a good fantasy quarterback. Yeah, let's do it. Go to 2018. Would you pick him up? How many weeks do you need to see of him playing well to add him?

We're not talking about adding him yet. If he plays well in week one, go for it, honestly. Because they start against the lions. And then, I mean, right there, the Giants and the Falcons, that could be two of the five worst defenses of football. That's intriguing to me.

If he has a big week one, those are two awful defenses he's going up against. And then the schedule gets a little harder. Go back to 2018. He played 14 games in 2018. He had 68 rush attempts. That's almost five rush attempts a game. A lot of them is scrambling.

But if Matt Nagy decides to, you know, maybe make that a bigger part of his game again this year because obviously, you know, as a drop-back passer, he just hasn't been, you know, a very fast processor. He hasn't been very accurate. Maybe the best way to get the most out of him is to embrace the fact that he's athletic, embrace the fact that he can run around a little bit.

And if they do give him five, six, seven, like rush attempts a game, whether that is a mix of scrambles and asses, and actual rush attempts. All of a sudden, he actually is a fantasy factor because like that Konami code where rushing yards and rushing touchdowns are more valuable than passing,

then that's a world where I can see him actually being a fantasy factor. All right, I'm glad we got that in because he's going to get benched in three weeks. So I'm glad we got that hypothetical in. All right, let's keep rolling here. Other cutdown news, Adrian Peterson was released by Washington, signs for the Detroit. The Washington part's more interesting here,

but let's just start with the Detroit Lions aspect. They already have carry-on Johnson and DeAndre Swift, they drafted carry-on in the second round a few years ago. They drafted DeAndre the second round. This year, we were thinking this as a timeshare 1A, 1B, and now they've added Peterson. What do you guys make of the line's backfield? One, would you add Peterson? Or is this just bad for carry-on and DeAndre Swift? I wouldn't add him at this point because he's, I think, primarily going to get the non-valuble touches for the most part. I mean, he might get the goal line stuff, which is good. But I don't know. He's like the Bost Garboro.

of this offense this year. You know, if you look back last year, he kind of was like the early downs guy, between the 20s guy. I think it is a bigger indictment on carry on Johnson because he was supposed to be sort of like that lead guy, the early down guy than it is for D'Andre Swift, who I believe will be the passing down back,

like the, you know, get him in space, the Echler type of back for that offense. But at the end of the day, I mean, it's not really good for either of them because, you know, it's just one more guy that's going to steal carry, steal reps, Adrian Peterson has experience with Daryl Bevel, who is now the offense coordinator in Detroit

from their time together in Minnesota. So, yeah, I don't know. It's just not great. Swift is still the guy you want in that offense for me, but yeah, it's not like a good sign necessarily for any of them. Of course, they're all banged up. Like Scarborough's hurt, Carri-on's hurt, Swift's hurt. They release Jonathan Williams.

So it could just be sort of like an injury depth thing at this point. So the lines have a time share of banged up running backs. Pretty much. Okay. Let's look at Washington. This is going to be our blood feud, clearly, for this season. Washington, so Adrian Peterson was the presumptive starter. He's not there.

J.D. McKissick is listed as the starting running back. But the hype guy is Antonio Gibson. He's the rookie out of Memphis. It's not really me versus you. I feel like it's me versus everybody. Like me versus the world. Everyone basically is now hyping Antonio Gibson as the guy. I feel like I'm taking.

Crazy pills. Shout out Mugatu. The fact that Antonio Gibson did not have three carries, or more than three carries in a college football game until last Thanksgiving. And he has done so twice in his college football career had more than three carries, is now going to go to the NFL, try to learn two positions in the same time, and then just be a starting running back, blows my gourd. And if I guess all I'm trying to say here is I'd rather be wrong. Like I hope I'm wrong. I hope he's great. But to me, the idea that if he shows up, if you have him and you draft him in the top hundred or so, and then he just is merely an exciting player who has very limited

snap share, that sucks. And you know what? If I'm wrong on the guy who, again, he played 19 games at Memphis. He had no carries whatsoever in 10 of those 19 games. This guy's going to be the starting run. running back now? It doesn't make any sense. I'm okay to be wrong on that.

D.K., you're the expert on tape and you grind tape. How can someone who had carries, period, in nine of 19 college games, be a starting running back just seven months later? I mean, it's definitely not a common occurrence. He did play running back at the senior bowl, got to show the NFL scouts there, kind of like what he could do. He played a little, he got a few carries in junior college.

So that's something to keep in mind. Literally three. in junior college. Oh, before Memphis. And then I guess my question, though, is if you're out on Gibson, are you in on J.D. McKissick? Do you think he's, because you said he's listed as a starter. I just want to list off some career stats for J.D. McKissick,

starter for Washington football team. Career high and carries in an NFL game 10 was a wide receiver in college. Sounds familiar. 47 rush attempts total in college, never had more than four rush attempts in a game. came into the NFL and he was a receiver. The thing that I think... But what did he do early? That's the thing. It takes time to learn a new job.

Sure. And I think that's a valid concern, but I do think I'm bullish on Gibson. They're also different players. JD McKissick's like 510-19. Gibson's like 6'1, 220. He's built like Jonathan Taylor. He's 4'3 speed. He's an incredibly rare athlete.

We can regurgitate how many carries he had in college over and over. The whole point is that Washington loved him. They loved him. They do love him. And they think he's going to be great. And they cut Adrian Peterson because they love him. And they're going to have a completely different offense this year. And they love him. And who else is going to get the ball? Yeah. Let me explain kind of why I think, Danny, that your concerns are ultimately not going to be enough to keep him off the field. So yeah, what Craig said is correct. They cut Adrian Peterson because they're really high on Antonio Gibson. In fact, when Peterson got cut, he was talking to Josina Anderson. He said, it caught me by surprise.

I was having a strong camp, showing up on film, taking number one reps, which is true. That's what the beat reporters were confirming. And then he goes, blah, blah, blah. Look, Antonio Gibson is a hell of a talent. The system really fits him. I feel like I can do that pony style too, more as a receiving back. We were all working on it, but they really want one main guy to do it,

and they drafted Gibson for it. Trust me, and then he goes on to say about how he still has a lot in him. But the key thing to me is we were all practicing that, pony style. I didn't actually know what pony was. So I, you know, consulted the Twitter like world or whatever. And so basically what pony is, it's a reference to 20 personnel, which is two running backs, zero tight ends, kind of like a three receiver, two running back look where you have like two running backs in the backfield. They can do a little bit of everything line up in the slot. They both line up in the backfield. They do all kinds of different things.

It makes 100% sense because you got two former college receivers in J.D. McKissick and Antonio Gibson doing this. It's something. that, you know, the Patriots have done in the past with their running backs. The Browns did a little bit last year with Cream Hunt and Nick Chubb. The point is they're going to be used in the passing game more. And passing game, especially in PPR, is really valuable for running backs. If you can get Antonio Gibson six, five, six targets a game, that makes him a fantasy factor if he's getting a couple carries too.

He's not going to be like a 20 carry guy, I think, I would assume. But he's getting enough targets in the passing. game. And that's to me why he's still interesting. Now, I'm going to go ahead and brag a little bit because I was telling you to get you guys to take him when he was like in the 120s, 130s. I drafted Antonio Gibson in a dynasty football league I'm in because you were like, that's clearly the pick you should make. So it's not like I don't buy the guy. And I will, like just this season is the question. I will say the interesting thing that you just mentioned is we always talk about running backs who can line up in this slot. In reality, there's only three guys who are good at that. Pro football focus, Sam Monson, did a really interesting study that basically said, the actual interesting thing football teams do is when receivers can line up in the backfield. That's way better. It's like a running back in the slot.

It's like, all right, great, you're going against the cornerback. Like, that's not, but when a receiver can be in the backfield and could take a carry or go against the linebacker, that's actually what's valuable. And I think that is something we'll see this season. That's an intriguing point.

But to me, so that is, that is a good point. I guess that where I just fall is, this is just because it's an underrated offense, doesn't mean it won't be a bad offense. This is still, we're fighting over. At the end of the day, we're trying to get a guy who is basically no track record

of significant touches competing with still three other guys of Peyton Barb, Jay, McHissick, and Bryce Love in a backfield for a team that's probably going to be terrible. And like, the whole, don't touch the backfield.

This is a bad team. I think the only guy you really want on this team is Terry McLaurin or like a dartthroat Steven Sims. And like, don't, you don't want anyone else. Like, life is too short

to spend your time trying to parse the Washington football team's backfield. Yeah, but when you should spend your time, like, you're spending a dollar or two or you're, no, that's the problem. He shot up. Like, our beloved Kevin O'Connor, NBA writer took him 80th in a draft like two nights ago.

And I love Kevin O'Connor. I just think at that point, we're in Crazyland. So you hate Sony, Michelle, Damon Harris, and Kevin O'Connor. Got it. Yeah, Antonio Gibson should cut his pinky off is what I'm saying. Let's keep going with roster cutdown stuff. But before we get into that, the Ring of Fantasy Football Show is brought to you by Fandul. are teaming up with Fanduil again this season, but we've got something new this time around

all season long, all season. Guys, how long? All season. All season. You can play the free ringer mega contest on Fandual. Here's how it works. Just pick five NFL games against the spread, including one double down pick, and you get one point for every correct pick, and you get two points if you hit your double down pick. Fandul will add up your score every week, so you don't have to do any math. And if you just finish in the top 100 on the season long leaderboard to make the playoffs and you get to compete for a share of $25,000 just by picking five games a week. It is that simple. I was looking at games this week and just the ones I have to look at is to me it's the Steelers

over the Giants. Spread's going to move on that, but it's the Steelers, the Giants, I think the Laugh Klausom. And the other one that I think is a lock is the cults over the Jaguars. I don't care what the spread is. The Jacksonville Jaguars are a dumpster fire. So I love those two. Any game stand out to you guys? I like Dallas over the Rams.

Ooh, that's a phone. anti-hardnox take from Craig. I was going to say the bills over Jets. Yeah, that's an easy bet. In week one, it's generally better to, don't bother guessing the great teams, just bet against the terrible ones. That's a good rule.

So you can bet whoever you want. Play the ringer mega contest for free every week, only on Fandul. Go to fandul.com slash mega contest to make your picks today. Again, that is fandul.com slash megacontest. And today's episode is also brought to you by Heineken. Heineken would like to remind you

that it is time for seasonal beers again. That's right, if you thought a cold, crisp summer Heineken with something, just wait until you taste the Heineken fall lineup, or autumn, depending on your zip code. Is it a new product? No, just the same great tasting lager that's perfect for any season.

This is not pumpkin spice beer. This is Heineken, because they don't need to change the formula because it's always great, no matter what the time of the year is. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Thank you, Craig. Heineken original lager is made

with pure malt and our famous a yeast, which makes Heineken in all season all the time kind of beer. So pick up a pack or get it delivered, whatever your style, and please drink responsibly. And speaking of drinking responsibly, the drinking of the Kool-Aid for the Chicago Bears,

how many years are we going to talk ourselves into Cordarell Patterson? Because the Bears, David Montgomery, the starting running back, hurt his groin. We don't know when he's going to be able to come back. And now we're down it. There's Tariq Cohen, who's too small to be a regular running back. Right.

there's two Oregon State guys and then now we're actually at the point where people are wondering of Cordill Patterson, who is literally listed as a receiver on their initial depth chart, is going to play running back. What do you do at the Bears back?

Yeah, there's actually only one, Artavis Pierce got cut. I think he's on their practice squad now. So now their depth chart is Montgomery, Cohen, and Ryan Knoll from Oregon State. So there was some buzz, I guess over the weekend that Cordoral was listed as a running back somewhere,

but it turns out on their final depth chart, He's listening as a receiver, so everyone's kind of bummed out. Does that matter? It doesn't matter. These death charts don't matter, honestly. Positions are a spectrum. Yeah, and he was taking reps with the running backs during camp. Sounds like he's getting a lot of work there.

That's honestly what he's most valuable for right now in that offense. So I think, speaking of Antonio Gibson, he's going to be a receiver that lines up in the backfield, I think. And so if you drafted Dave Montgomery already, and he ends up, I mean, obviously we have to monitor it during this week. My guess right now is that he's not going to play, but we don't really. know that. Keep an eye on Corral-Rale Patterson, just because he could potentially get, like I said, you know,

five, six targets out of the backfield, potentially, a couple carries, enough to get you through the week. Here's a fun little nugget just to show that depth charts don't matter. Last year, the Vikings' official depth chart listed Amir Abdullah as their starting punt returner. Amir Abdullah had never returned to punt in his career

before 2019, and he has never returned to punt in his career after 2019. Well, that's the thing is apparent, like, honestly, The team's media group is the guys they put together these debt charts. It's not like they go in and talk to the coaches and like, okay, coach, how many, how many reps is this guy going to get in the game? You know, it's like this total disconnect.

Even if they did, the coaches have just been openly like, yeah, there's no beat reporters around because of COVID. So we're just lying. Like, we're just not like the cowboys did the thing where they practice and didn't put any numbers on anyone's jerseys because they didn't have to. And they're like, they're trying to like, it's the cold war. Yeah. That's been the thing this.

So they're not going to be honest. anyway. It's a great point. This whole preseason, all these beat reporters have been really pissed off because a lot of teams or maybe all teams. I don't know if it's all teams or not, but have got this gag order for beat reporters against reporting first team, second team, third team reps. You're not allowed to talk about it. Why would they do that and then release it? Because the theme of 2020 is you can just restrict the media. We'll get over it. But no, really, it is important to remember that, again, we just have less information at every level. are spending more time on the virus and restricting the spread of that than they would like to spend. They would like to spend that time on football. Reporters are spending stuff trying to figure out stuff. And they're also just not on the site. They're not talking to people. Like part of the reason that depth charts are so cloudy right now is reporters aren't learning as much as usual.

And then that's filtering down. So we really are working with like all these teams are on murkier cloud than usual. One of which includes the black hole, Oakland, or it's not Oakland anymore, it's Vegas. Is it still the black hole if it's in a different place? Probably. I think so. Vegas is a different sort of black hole. Probably try to continue that.

That's 11th man. Yeah, they can try. Anyway, the Raiders traded the third round pick, running back receiver, quarterback hybrid player, Lynn Bowden to the Dolphins, which this isn't super fantasy relevant other than one. John Gruden's a meme who has a very short fuse

to just get rid of players he doesn't like. Like he gets bored very easily. That's just important note. They gave Demarius Randall. like a $1.5 million signing bonus or something like that. I don't know the exact thing. And then cut him. John Crane is impulsive and he has unchecked power. It's just important to remember.

He makes personal decisions impulsively. But the important part for fantasy is not that the Raiders gave up a, like basically cut their third round pick, but in a more polite way. But really, it's just there is no handcuff for Josh Jacobs. I think that's the takeaway here, right? Because the guys behind him are Jalen Richard, Devante Booker, Dariaghan, Ogun, Bawley.

DeKere, any of those guys interesting to you, even if you own Josh, or sorry, if you have Josh Jacobs on your roster? I think Jalen Rashard is not a handcuff, but he's a guy that is potentially going to get passing down work. I wouldn't bother with those other two guys. When he first got traded, when they traded Lin-Boden, the initial reaction, I think, was, oh, good,

that means maybe now there's a better chance that Josh Jacobs is going to get the passing game work that we've talked about all off-season. Like, is he going to be a bigger part? Is he going to be a three-down guy? And then they went out and got Darien Gubowali, who is a third-down back. So, I don't know.

To me, it's all just noise. Bowden was a guy that they brought in. He was a receiver and a Wildcat quarterback in college, and then they tried to make him a running back. It just didn't take for him. And they cut bait. Maybe he just wasn't a fit in the locker room or whatever. So I don't think it changes anything, really,

other than it makes me a little bit more confident that Jacobs is the guy. Like, he's going to get all three downs. I agree. Speaking of confidence, but the opposite, the Jaguars running back situation is just a disaster. Ironically, when Fournecker cut, the best team from to go to was the Jaguar still, because they have,

Reichel Armstead is back on the COVID list. The first time he was on the COVID list, he missed 18 days of practice. And again, the COVID list is they don't reveal whether the player tested positive or was merely exposed to someone who tested positive.

But Armstead was missed 18 days, which is a lot of, I mean, that's a lot of time. And now he's back on the list. Then we've got Devine Osigbo, James Robinson and Chris Thompson. Robinson is projected to be the starter now. This is like a, like, this is just,

I don't know what the metaphor is. but this is hard to figure out. So what do you want to do with the Jags backfield? My sense is just this is another terrible backfield on a terrible team in a terrible situation

and it's winning, picking the right player to be the starter here, you're not going to get the prize you think you are. I agree. It's a bad carnival game. Don't drop a good player

in front of these guys. Don't spend a lot of your fab on any of these guys. If you can pick them up for free, go for it. And I'm talking about Zigbo or Robinson. I got some,

news. I can hit you guys with some Roto World News. What's that? DeAndre Hopkins extension. Yeah. Two year, 54 million. And Leonard Fortnet will have a two year extension, $54 million. Did he negotiate that himself? He didn't use an agent for that, did he? Not sure. I think that's, yeah, I think that's right, Danny. And in other news, Leonard Fortnet will have a solid role in week one.

He's the, so sorry, Hopkins is now the highest paid non-quarterback ever. Two year 27. Two-year-54 million. That's 27 per. That's quarterback money, man. Yeah. That's incredible. And he did it by himself, like he said. Wow.

That's pretty cool. And then so sorry you said that Four-Net is the guy? Yeah, well, he's going to have a solid role in week one. Okay. Also, one more thing, just to rub it at all your guys' faces. So, first of all, it came out that rookie A.J. Dillon is third on the depth chart and that they pretty much don't see him playing at all. Dep charts only matter when it confirms your priors, but yes.

Like the, thank you. DK. They basically said like until he can learn important. Until he can learn the offense. They don't matter at all.

Until he can learn. The beer reporter said until he can learn the offense. Like he's probably not going to be on the field and Jamal Williams is the backup. And also that Aaron Jones and the Packers are working on a long-term deal right now.

Why is this rubbing it in our faces? Who on this podcast was like pro A.J. Dylan? I just think everybody's anti Aaron Jones and there's no reason. Don't lash out at me. I liked your, I voted for that take.

Don't lash out at me. I've never once them like, AJ Dylan. He's just looking at me, Danny. You can't see where my eyes are at on the Zoom. I just got enamored with AJ Dillon's quads. I don't know. Sequins' quads just made everybody think that big quads mean you're good.

My takeaway from that is that the Greenbit Packers not only used their first round pick on a quarterback, but they use their second round pick on a running back who cannot crack second on the depth chart. And a third round pick on a like a Hback. That's like. When they had like massive need at receiver. That's hilarious. Perfect example. If people want actual media bias, actual media bias is not like,

the way you think it is. Actually media bias is that if the Browns had done what the backers did, they would be getting endless shit for the second and the third. Like using a third round pick on basically a fullback

and the second round guy and their second round running back can't crack the top two is like that is some red flashing light. It's bad optics. Yeah. That's, it doesn't look good.

I think Dylan, I think Dylan's going to eventually be the number two guy. But we'll see that. The second one, be the number two guy. This year I meant, like after a couple of games. Let's keep rolling here.

Oh, man, this is a charge topic. We can blow through these final few players. Rashad Penny to the physically unable to perform. You're right. The man's injured. There's no reason to debate him here. He's out for the first six weeks because he's on PUP. Chris Carson's the running back.

Yeah. Does Penny have any value here and just Chris Carson is really good of football? No. All right, cool. Yeah, Chris Carson, good of football. I mean, the reason I put it on this doc is, because if there was any doubt that Chris Carson has the guy there, then now there is not.

All right, no doubt. Just stop fumbling Chris Carson, please, because we all want to love you. All right. Denver Broncos, KJ. Hamler, is not going to be put in injured reserve, which, again, is not as scary as it used to sound. That means he won't miss three games, not the whole season. And then Philadelphia's Jalen Rager, another rookie, is also not going to go in injured reserve. They're both banked up. The notable thing here, Danny, is that because IR is so short-term now,

the fact that neither of them were on the IR to start the year means they're very close to coming back in my mind. So this means they could be back week two. They could even play week one. So that's just something to keep in mind. Hamler's like kind of a much deeper cut guy than Jalen Rager who I think. We were pretty high on Jalen Rager going into the season. Well, I'm not. Sorry, would you rather have Rager or Deshaun Jackson?

Now I would rather have Deshaun Jackson. I remember on the pod you were like, I was going to debate you on this, Danny, but you did a really good job of convincing me. Let's roll back the tape at some point here. But yeah, I talked you into Jalen Rager and then he immediately got hurt. So that sucks. Well, those are always annoying because then like you can't be right or wrong. I know, right. It's like the Damien Williams thing.

I'm definitely right about C.E.H. though, yeah. Look, man, we'll never know. I guess my take is preserved in time like the mosquitoes and Amber in Jurassic Park. Yeah, speaking of which DeAndre Washington was cut by the Chiefs. He was considered the backup to him and then we were just wrong about that. Derell Williams is the backup for C.E.H. Let's talk about this. How do we feel about this news that Clyde might not have, you know, like a firm stronghold on the week one role?

And it might be split with Derrell Williams. It's going to be a thing where like four weeks into the season we're all pissed because Darrell Williams is still getting 10 carries a game or no. It's just all fake news. No, I think he's going to have a role. But my thing is even a 60, 65 percent role for Clyde Edwards-Layer is going to be very valuable. Is this going to be like, though, like is he going to get goal line, care? Is he not going to be on all the passing downs because he's not super good with pass protection yet?

Like, is this going to be all the stuff that we're going to get pissed during the game? For a couple of weeks, potentially, yeah. I think it'll all work itself out over the season. But yeah, I mean, that's kind of like how... Again, like we were talking about, we have, like, so little information right now that we're all just guessing.

But that would be my... Just like my overall impression is, like, first couple of weeks, it'll be a little bit of a rotation. Then Clyde Edwards, a layer will establish himself first. apparently as the number one guy. Well, he better. I hope so. All right. Last one. We were joking a couple weeks ago that we can literally spend 10 seconds on this. If it's any longer, I'll be mad. Mike Davis is Christian McAfee's handcuff. There you go. We just wanted to name him, but we'll spend zero time on him to continue the long fantasy tradition of no one talking

about the backup running back for the number one pick in fantasy. He'll devote no time to it. He's obviously not relevant. Okay, let's get to some listener questions, which I will loosely sum up as who will be the most added person after week one. We got many different forms of that, but basically, if you want to be a head-on, who do we think will be the most added player, and then who do you think should be the most added player if everyone listened to this podcast? So starting with who do you think might be the most added guy after week one happens, D.K. Oh, I was speaking of Deshaun Jackson, I think Deshaun Jackson is that guy. If he's not already on your team, if he's not already on a team in your league, he's going to be the number one waiver wire pickup, I think.

He's 50% rostered. Last time I checked it was like 50-ish. So he's going to be a guy that people... Like last year, didn't he go off in week one? Like 150-something yards, two touchdowns. Jalen Rangers hurt. Yeah. I think it's a stealer.

I think it's E-Bron or Washington. I love the E-Rone one. I think Ben's going to throw for like 400 yards and one of those guys is going to have a touchdown in 80 yards. And everyone's going to be like, oh, well, Pittsburgh offense. Yeah, I could see that because the Giants cornerbacks. I mean, I know they just signed Logan Ryan, but one of their first run picks a couple years ago

was a quarterback who was supposed to be the number one and he's going to prison and then the other is Sam Beal who was a third round pick that just is already gone like they just the Giants have no cornerback depth and going against the Steelers in week one is just like I could totally see them going off because they suck and they have no pass rush

but the other one I wanted to note is I think the Colts could have a huge week one because they're going against the Jaguars I can't really stress enough how bad the Jacksonville Jaguars are and I say that not even about a talent, they don't want to be there. I don't know if there is a more problem at, like, a bigger problem to a team's on field success than the most basic and invisible part

of all NFL teams, which is they really do believe in each other and they want to be there and they want to be on the team. Like, every team has that in most years, even the ones where we say they're quitting the coach. The Jacksonville Jaguars this month have had two players traded away and then the players publicly thank God for no longer being a Jacksonville Jaguar. Twice this month with Ronnie Harrison and Yonick and Gokwe. And that doesn't include Callais Campbell, doesn't include Gillian Ramsey, it doesn't include AGBU. The amount of good football players, Telvin Smith, like who have just decided, I don't want

to be on this team. It's toxic for me. And then you go into, they also talent-wise have one of the worst defenses in football. I think the cults are going to destroy them. And I think Philip Rivers might be the most added player after week one. And if not him, my guy Jack Doe, who or Paris Campbell, whoever it ends up, but I think Jack Doyle, but really Philip Rivers,

because people are going to be like, one, oh my God, I forgot he's on the Colston, too. I think Philip Rivers could throw for 450 yards against this defense. It's going to be the worst team in the league by a lot. Do you want me to list off a few more guys that are under 50% right now in rosters, on rosters that I believe will have good weeks? Sure. Golden Tate is surprisingly.

He's not on 50% of rosters? 46% per Yahoo right now. That's a good one. Which is kind of surprising. and then a couple of other guys. Chase Edmonds for the Cardinals. Yeah, that's a really good one. He's a tough one because we don't know the extent of King and Drake's foot thing right now.

Like, he could just be completely faking it or whatever. We always talk about lottery tickets. It's not a lottery ticket. It's a scratch-off. You have like a 10% chance. It's just it's a time share and they haven't told us yet. The third one that comes in mind, Preston Williams. That's Craig's guy.

41% rostered right now. So those are a few that kind of stick out to me. And again, to be clear, those 10, team leagues. So ownership and 10 and 12 team leagues defers. But I like all those guys and definitely keep an eye on all those guys, especially the golf in week one.

Jack, I know what you're talking about. Jack Doyle again, Trey Burton went on IR. It's a big tight end offense, big tight end and he's a big tight end. And you know what? Jack, you guys laugh. You guys laugh. I'm kind of coming around on Jack Doyle, to be quite honest. I think he'll be a nice he'll just be a nice guy to have a I mean, that's a bad take to say that he's going to be a fantasy factor.

I'm worried about his upside is what I think. Like, he doesn't have the upside of like a top five guy, but he's a good floor play. You'll see. Okay. We will see. Yeah. All right. Let's get fun fact this week.

This one's great. Did we check these facts, by the way? I was thinking about this. Well, shout out to Austin who included links to two different links to two different sources, Discovery and Smithsonian Magazine. So shout out to Austin. This is a good note for the future. If you're coming at us with crazy facts,

you got to include source material. Because we'll read whatever you put in front of us. I actually literally put, I'm Ron Burgundy question mark, team your notes today trying to see if you would read it. You did not. I was really upset. I literally buried that in there.

But no, this is a journalism enterprise. Like, we are fact-based except for when we talk to Instagrams. Yeah. So anyway, this is true. Did you know that the Tyrannosaurus Rex

live closer in time to humans than it did to the state? This is absolutely bonkers. It's fucking mind-blowing. Especially now during this summer that's felt like it's been eight years or something like that. Last three months have felt like eight years. The idea that the dinosaurs were around for like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of years is just blows my mind. Because the one we did the other day was the ancient Egypt and like, wow.

The pharaohs ruled for 30 centuries. Think about that shit. Jesus. Think about what you were doing 30 days ago. It seems like a long time. But then you're like, wow, human, but then this just to me,

the Amher's home, like, where like life is short. Humanity is short because, well, an addendum to this one, and maybe this is, we're totally off track. But if you just put the history of Earth, so four billion years and change on,

and you truncated it to a year, so you just fit four billion years into 365 days, human beings show up at 10 p.m. on New Year's Eve. That is how small we are in the scale, of the earth. Yeah, Neil deGrasse Tyson did a thing on Cosmos about that where he made it a calendar.

If it was a calendar, we didn't show up, yeah. He just put his little pin on December 31st or whatever. Did I accidentally just like, just rip Neil deGrat Tyson? Yeah, you've ever seen Cosmos,

Hythitz? I watched a little bit of it and then I couldn't finish it. I can't finish TV shows. That's a problem I have. Life is too short, I guess. Did you read this off ready? Did you read off the time period thing?

Oh, yeah, sorry. Stegosaurus lived during the late Jurassic period 150 million years ago. while the Tyrannosaurus roamed during the Cretaceous period, 67 million years ago. So I was talking in hundreds of thousands of years. Really, I should have been talking in hundreds of millions of years. So it's insane.

60 million years. Let me ask you guys, how tall do you think of T-Rex is? 30 feet. 60 feet. So they're 12 to 20. They're tiny. What? Do Jurassic Park live?

Is that weird? I've been really off on all the trivia questions. It's all marketing. They just wanted it to sound bigger. You asked me how tall a Redwood was, and I was like, less than 100 feet. It's like 400 feet. Yeah, you got to ask me.

You got to anchor the, the T-Rex. Yeah. 24 feet, that's it? 12 to 20. The shortest one is 12 feet tall. Not to mention all these things had feathers, dude. These are birds. Like, you know what the actual classification of a turkey is?

It's a raptor. By definition, it's a raptor. It says that a T-Rex could only run 17 miles an hour. That's like low-key slow. We basically evolved because we killed off all the big animals. We killed off all the big, you know how scary a turkey would be if it was 12 feet tall? They're all just dinosaurs of birds. Anyway, let's get the hell out of here.

Do we have anything else to say? Just that we'll be back on Thursday to start our in-season content, preview in the season. Yes. In-season content, wow, football. Tom Brady Buck. This is just really weird. Thank you to D.K. Thank you to Craig.

Thank you to Fanduil and Heineken. Thank you to dinosaurs for ceding the earth to us. We are screwing it up really promptly. We'll do like a little back and forth. It'll be your time again soon. All right. See you guys on Thursday.