The Ringer NFL Show - Late-Round League Winners

Episode Date: August 23, 2023

Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck reveal their favorite late-round players who can get you a massive return on your investment (1:03). Finally, the guys close with emails (48:05). Check out our 2023 Ringer Fantasy Football Rankings here! Michael Thomas, Saints WR (1:44) Justyn Ross, Chiefs WR (4:40) Donovan Peoples-Jones, Browns WR (9:26) Jameson Williams, Lions WR (13:41) Rapid-fire WRs (17:24) Jeff Wilson Jr., Dolphins RB (25:05) Jaylen Warren, Steelers RB (26:33) Tank Bigsby, Jaguard RB (28:48) Elijah Mitchell, 49ers RB (30:28) Clyde Edwards-Helaire, Chiefs RB (32:45) Rapid-fire RBs (35:58) Kyler Murray, Cardinals QB (37:33) Rapid-fire TEs (41:02) Email us! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Social: Kiera Givens Producer: Kai Grady Audio intern: Jack Sanders Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Subscribe to The Ringer NFL show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. And be sure to follow the Ringer NFL on Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter at Ringer NFL. My show, my name is Danny Hyfittson. I am joined by Danny Kelly and Craig Horlebeck. And today we are doing our favorite sleepers, real sleepers, deep sleepers. These are the late round league winners. D.K. Yeah.

Not so long ago on this very episode plugged Lamar Jackson as the guy. And that's a little cheating because we're talking guys mostly outside the top 120 today. And Lamar was right around 20. But DK was like screaming from the rooftops. Everyone should get Lamar Jackson. Lamar Jackson then leads the league in touchdown passes, runs for 1,000 yards, wins the unanimous MVP award. And so, DK, I want you to start off here. What player outside the top 120 is going to win a unanimous NFL MVP this season?

Wow, there's a lot of pressure there. That is quite the intro. I'm going to start with a guy who I actually don't like that much. Like, I've gone. Awesome. This is a player that I've made fun of a lot over the last two years. It's Michael Thomas of the Saints. He is notoriously unreliable.

Unless it's the preseason, then you can really depend on him. Get him in there and run routes. No, I think obviously the market has adjusted to Michael Thomas missing most of the last two years. And we can get him pretty much like in the 10th or 11th, 12th round. It's not a huge investment. But as much as it pains me to say this, when he's on the field, he's pretty good. Last year, he played three games.

He averaged 14 points per game in half BPR. That was good for wide receiver 10. You can get him in the 10th or 11th round, or later maybe. And I think the Saints offense is poised to be really good, poised to be much better than it was last year. I think Derek Carr, while maybe not a superstar is an upgrade over Andy Dalton. That's not, you know, I'm not breaking new ground with that comment. But I do think the other thing to keep in mind here is New Orleans has a very easy schedule.

So there's a chance that their offense just could really be humming this year. And Michael Thomas could end up being the number one receiver in this offense again. Obviously, Chris Oliva is there and he's going to obviously get his. But I think Michael Thomas is still going to be a big part of this offense. The only question, of course, is that whether he's going to play in very many games. But I think at that cost, his upside outweighs the potential downside. So I'm actually in on Michael Thomas this year. I don't know why.

It's a great zag. This sucks, but it's the right idea. I got to say, right? I mean, this just makes a ton of sense. Last year, I was very into Michael Thomas. I was doing pitches for him every week. But he was going as like the wide receiver 24. And I was like, look, I thought I was arguing that that was a value.

And now, I mean, he's going twice as twice the distance away. So at wide receiver 47 in our rankings. So like, yeah, this is an obvious late round pick. If he sucks and gets hurt, you drop him. And if he's great, he's probably going to start for you, which is crazy for a guy outside of the top 100. Your first 10 players are basically your team. and then everyone after that, you kind of throwing shit at the wall. And I agree.

Michael Thomas, good thing to throw out the wall. But I feel a little bad because I feel like you guys were out on Michael Thomas. And I was like, come on. And it's like, I feel like there's a toxic friend that you guys kind of stopped talking to. And I was like, he's a good guy. We should hang with this guy again. You wore us down. And now you guys.

He made a couple of mistakes. He was young. He's matured now. Okay. He grew up. He's not that young. I'm doing this purely from like academic integrity point of view. I don't actually want to take him.

But I think the value at. his price is too much to ignore. You have to, you have to think logically here. And he has literally top 10 wide receiver potential. You have a fiduciary responsibility to your own team as a fantasy manager to draft him. Exactly. Craig, you have toxic friends. You're going to plug Kedarist Tony right now while we're on toxic friends that? I mean, look, yes, right? I still think despite him still being out with his like knee sprain or whatever he has, he's still worth a draft pick. But if we stay in Kansas City, I think Justin Ross, if you're in a deep league, 14, 16. maybe 12 and it's your last pick of the draft.

Justin Ross, who, if you're not familiar with him, it's a second year guy at a Clemson and was basically the best wide receiver on the National Championship Clemsoneman team when they had T. Higgins and Hunter Renfro, Amari Rogers, when Trevor Lawrence was there. They killed Alabama. And in that game, true freshman, Justin Ross,

had 150 yards in a touchdown in the national championship. He's 6-4-2-10. He's incredibly talented, but has had a slew of really rough injuries. He had a neck and spine injury that caused him to miss some time in college. and then he had foot surgery as a rookie last year in Kansas City. But he's back. He's healthy.

It looks like he's going to make the roster. He's been kind of rattling off highlight plays in training camp. I mean, look, this is a true just talent. Throw your shit at the wall. There's a non-zero chance that this guy becomes a true talent in the league. This is a five-star talent with Patrick Mahomes. So it's worth a shot. I agree.

I'm kind of skeptical that another receiver emerges behind Travis Kelsey on the Chiefs. But that's why I don't, I didn't really like Cadarious Tony's a top 100 pick. but you absolutely should be throwing a dart. Even like Sky Moore, who's going like 130th. Like I think at that point, again, I don't think it's more likely than not that Sky Moore or Justin Ross is good. But at the price, it's like, yeah, I'll throw a dart. And then Sky Moore is still like a 13th round pick.

Justin Ross is like the last pick in your draft. Honestly, Justin Ross, if you're in a 10 or even a 12-team league, Justin Ross will probably be on waivers. Yeah. In your league. Unless someone has picked up on the hype train. So Justin Ross, you don't really need to reach more than like a single round, before like picking a defense.

And yeah, it's like, I think you're exactly right, Craig. I think that, Hafe, it's your skepticism that someone is going to emerge in this Chiefs offense that's shared by the market right now, right? Like a lot of these guys are just sort of late round darts, Skymore. Skymore, I was looking this up. I think his ADP is actually lower than it was last year at this time. And he was a rookie. And so, you know, there's people that a lot of people just basically don't believe anyone's

going to merge. is just sort of the prevailing thought. And that is where you can potentially find an edge here. And of course, maybe they're right. Maybe no one will emerge from this offense. But if it's either Justin Ross, Guy Moore, maybe Rashid Rice, the rookie, if one of these guys does emerge, again, this is Patrick Mahomes that offense. This is one of the past happiest teams in the NFL, one of the highest scoring teams in the NFL,

and one of the fastest-paced teams in the NFL. So all the ingredients are there for like a massive explosion. and we just need to find the right guys. So take your shots on some of these late guys. It's not going to cost you all that much. And I think if I had a bet it would be Skymore or Justin Ross. And Justin Ross is cheaper. But Skymore had a very funny.

He wasn't a funny quote, but I thought it was funny, where he just had the most simple answer. Like, what's the difference between year two and year one? Because year one, Skymore basically redshirted. And Skymore basically said, yeah, now year two, when the play's called, I'm not wondering, where do I line up? I'm just thinking about how do I beat this guy? And so now last year they would have been in completions, but this year they're completions.

And then I got the ball so I can add yards. And I'm like, yeah, dude, that's like, wow. It matters. You get the ball and then you add yards. Like that's exact. I couldn't put it better myself. I don't think people understand how hard it is to learn an NFL offense. Like, have you guys heard play calls?

Have you heard how complicated they are? I know that in those play calls, it's sort of like they build in directions for each player. Right. But still, it's so complicated. It does sound like Navajo, if you. You don't. Right, exactly. It's like you have to be a wind talker.

There's so many different site adjustments, option routes, things that you need to learn based on how the defense is lining up. It's like going into a class and trying to learn an entire semester's worth of stuff in like a couple of weeks. This is what these rookies have to do. And so, you know, we heard Malik Willis talking about this too. He was much more impressive starting in preseason this year than he was last year, where he was just running around.

Obviously, the Titans did not trust him. But he was asked essentially the same thing. and it was like, what's the difference between this year and last year? He literally said, I know the offense now. Like, that's a major difference. Like, it takes a while to, you know, take this in and ingrain it. So you're not thinking about it and you're just doing it. You know, when you're in like a job interview and somebody asked a question you were not prepared for

and you just have that like cold rush wash over your body and you're like, holy shit, what am I going to say right now? I got to pull something out of my ass. I wonder how many times that happens to a quarterback where they like calling the play and he's like, man, I got no idea what this is. I got to just run around. If you get the question wrong on the job interview, a 300 pound defensive tackle flattened you with all of his might.

That's where you call an audible and just run a run play. The show on Netflix quarterback does a good job of kind of like showing you how difficult play calling is in the NFL. Another receiver I think is a sleeper. This is a Glansberg. I don't think we've said his name, but I've increasingly kind of obsessed with getting this guy at the end of my draft. Donovan People's Jones for the Browns.

Doddiving People Jones is our 56th wide receiver. He's 143rd overall. So really like toward the back end of like, you know, the real throwing stuff at the wall. I'm obsessed because at the end of the draft, anything after 130, 140, depending on the platform, you kind of just start scrolling. You're like, all right, who's here? What's going on? And when I scroll at the end of these drafts on whatever platform I'm on, Donovan People Jones just sticks out because they have a thing called burst score. And basically you take your combine numbers.

your vertical jump and your long jump and you mash them together and you get a burst score. So it's not complicated. How high can you jump? How far can you jump together? That's like a conduit. Yeah, for your explosiveness. Donovan and People Jones, among wide receivers, is in the 100th percentile for birth score. A 100th percentile athlete.

And for all of our obsession with Elijah Moore, you know who's starting for the Cleveland Browns? Donovan and People's Jones. You know who's practicing for the Cleveland Browns? Donovan and People's Jones. Elijah Moore were obsessed the way he could do in the slot. Donovan People Jones, first of all, only a year older. He's 24. Elijah Moore is 23.

He's going 70 spots later than Elijah Moore, 50, depending where you're looking. And Donovan Bill Jones is, again, he's four inches tall. He's 30 pounds heavier. He's also an absurd athlete. And he's actually practicing. Amari Cooper's missing some practicing. That's veteran. I'm not worried.

Elijah Moore has a rib injury. He's not practicing. And I just look at him like, Donovan People Jones is every single box you look for in a late-round pick. an absurd athlete in a situation where he's already got playing time. And if he pops, he has the ceiling to be really good. So I basically have drafted him in every single mock or draft I've already done. He ran a route, 90% of the team's routes last year.

He was on the field all the time. And that's like key because I think if you're looking at Elijah Moore is a big sleeper for a lot of people. And I really like his talent. But he's probably, or there's a chance he might not be on the field in two receiver sets. You know what I mean? It might be Murray Cooper and people's jokes. Jones out there because they play different roles in the offense. And so, you know, fantasy is a volume game.

You want to chase that volume. The other thing about People's Jones, Hyfitz, you mentioned it. Obviously, an elite athlete, but he's also got a really high pedigree, I believe. Back in the day, he was a five-star, five-star recruit. Incredible player at Michigan. Talent is not the question. It's just really, what is this offense going to do? And so to me, you know, when you're taking these dart throws at some of these late-round

guys, you have to build a narrative. like what could happen that would make this guy pop and be worthy of, you know, a top 50 pick or something like that next year. And if we see Deshawn Watson take a big jump and start hitting on those deep passes a little bit higher rate and just basically understand and play this offense better, like that could be massive for Donovan People's Jones. I could see him. There's a world in which he finishes as like a, you know, at worst, like a flex type option,

but he could even finish as like a wide receiver too if that happens. And so you have to build a narrative. You have to kind of construct that. and why could he, you know, make that big jump? And I think it comes down to Deshawn Watson and the fact that he's probably going to be playing a lot. Donovan People's Jones is probably going to be playing a lot. I like Hyvitz just as like Al Davis at the end of his fantasy draft. He's just going after freaks.

He's just looking at first score. He's like, just give me the six four guys who run four threes. The thing, the difference to me is like sometimes when you do that, you're like, this guy's an insane athlete and that he's so talented, he'll get playing time and you figure it out. But this guy starts. These guy's already a starter. To tell you the truth, it's really hard to beat the market. I hate that phrase, but to quote unquote, beat the market, which is, what you're trying to do

when you have your own rankings or whatever. You have to identify, well, why is everyone else wrong about this? And I think it's very simple. It's like the Browns traded for Elijah Moore and they drafted Cedgerick Tillman in the draft and is perceived as like, oh, the reality is Donovan and People Jones is a free agent at the end of the year. Contract year, that's nice.

The Browns can't resign him because they're paying Cooper, they're paying Sean Watson, they're paying Dick Chubb. They pay in their offensive line. They can't also invest money in like, like they're Donovan and People's Jones. He's going to leave. Cedric Tillman's drafted to be his replacement, and Elijah Moore plays a different position.

So I think that everyone's just kind of missing that this guy's just staring us in the face. So I love him a lot. That's a good one. DK.K. Is there any other receivers that stick out to you as like a late run sleeper? Yeah. And this one, I think sometimes when you are talking about sleepers,

you have to kind of go against your gut. That's exactly what I did with Michael Thomas. The Costanza. Yeah, it's 100% of Costanza. I think the sleeper Costanza this year, Jameson Williams of the line. Basically, the vibes are atrocious. Like, this is worse vibes this year than Trayland

works last year. You know what I mean? Like Traylorberg's coach clearly hated him. He was like, he couldn't finish a practice. And he came in eventually in the games and he looked pretty good. You know, why? Because he was a first round talent and he figured it out as time went on. We had the same thing with Jamar Chase. Of course, everyone's going to compare any rookie that's struggling or any young player that's struggling with Jamar Chase. But I will say, sometimes the best thing to do is just go the opposite direction of like training camp pipe. Sometimes these players figure it out as time goes on. And James and Williams, he's going to have six weeks to figure it out because he's going to be suspended.

But if you go back, I mean, this guy is very fast, very explosive, run after the catch. He was a very good receiver prospect who missed most of his first season to an ACL tear. And the Lions traded up, I believe, to like 12 overall or something really high to go get this guy. So they clearly had belief in his talent. And now we just need to see it all come together. And the nice part is there is some room in this offense for him to emerge once he gets back on the field. Again, this is a good offense. you know, one of the top five teams in points per game,

top six in passing yards last year, top 11 in past attempts, so they're going to be a lot of volume, potential for points. And of course, there's a massive, steep discount with James because he's had a truly atrocious training camp. You know, he's suspended, he's dropping passes.

The coaches are talking about how he may never be a natural hands catcher. Like, these are all things that are driving down his price for good reason. But sometimes, you just sometimes really just have to go against. You have to fade preseason narratives because sometimes these guys are just too good and they end up, you know, performing like you expected him to perform before all this bad news kind of happened. You know what I mean? So he could be this year's version of like a Christian Watson.

Remember last year? Christian Watson came on really strong down the stretch. He was a quote unquote league winning type guy, even though you didn't have him or you weren't using him for the first probably like 10 weeks of the season. I do think Jameson has that type of talent at least. Are you recommending people draft Jameson Williams despite being suspended for six weeks? Or is it just like keep your eye on him and on the way? I mean, ideally stash him and put him on your IR. Because if he does have in some leagues, if he's got the suspension tag on him,

you can just drop him on your IR and you don't have to worry about him having a roster spot. I'd say if you have a, if you have a, you know, not very many people on your roster type league, then you probably just want to like keep an eye on him and go with other guys they can use in the first six weeks. But if you have a deep roster and or an IR spot that, with suspended guys. I think he's worth a stash, at least. I think this is brilliant, TK. I'm proud and jealous of this.

This is the perfect Kastanza because every bone in my, every fiber in my beating says that Jameson Williams is just giving me beyond the ick. But you're right. Like, that's kind of when you should strike. Michael Thomas and James and Williams, baby. I'm zinging. Well, everyone's zagging.

Zagging. Zagging, right. To Craig's point, I agree, though. Ten team league may be a waiver guy. But again, you do worse things to keep him for six weeks. I also think, I will say. If your league does allow suspended guys in the injured reserve, I think that's ridiculous,

but that's neither here or there. But you're right that think a lot of people do that. All right. It's true. Why? Why should a suspended player who cares? Who cares? I care.

Why should they be allowed? I agree with high. Because they did something wrong and we're punished for it. Yeah, but we should be able to stash them. That's ludicrous. That is ludicrous. I actually makes me blood, my blood boil. Yeah, okay.

All right, other rapid fire sleepers here while we're on lines and Jameson Williams, similar vein to Donovan People's Jones. Josh Reynolds is not a crazy athlete, but Josh Reynolds is a starting wide receiver for the Lions that no one cares about. The most boring player, boring name. Just kind of hanging out on Detroit, running routes.

He'll be out there. I'm not 100% sure I could have told you what team he played for if you just told me his name. Completely unremarkable person and player, no shade to him or your family. I'm sure you're a lovely guy. But Josh Reynolds, starting player for the Lions, which is expected to be a great offense.

and you basically almost definitely could get him on waivers and not just a 12-team league. I bet a 14-team league you could get Josh Reynolds starting receiver on waivers. That's pretty good. Alec Pierce for the Colts, we're super down on Michael Pittman because of Anthony Richardson's rookie season, but Alec Pierce is the other starter there in Indianapolis. Alec Pierce is tall. Alec Pierce is fast. You can get him quite literally 100 spots after Michael Pittman.

And I would not be stunned if Alex Pierce got you 80% of what Michael Pittman does for 5% of the cost. Rashid Shaheed on the Saints. He's a crazy deep threat. Yeah, 17 yards per catch last season from Rashid Wild to watch him run deep routes. And now Derek Carr is the quarterback in New Orleans. Derek Carr led the NFL in deep touchdown passes last year.

Shahid, he might be good. He might be a very good player. I like him. That's a good call. You don't even have to necessarily draft these guys. What Craig was saying, these are probably guys that maybe, unless you're in a something more than 12 teams, if you're in a 10, 12 team league,

you can watch these guys in waivers. Deeper Dynasty, you can, like, go for these guys. And then Jonathan Mingo, rookie receiver for the Panthers, second round pick in the real NFL draft. It's not so much that I believe in Mingo, which I kind of do, but the four guys are ahead of him, I have zero confidence in. Adam Feelein, DJ Chark, are they going to be able to stay on the field? And the guys behind the Leviska Shinald, Teres Marshall Jr., just like ludicrously disappointing

players so far. And I don't think it's crazy to think Jonathan Mingo could be like really starting for this team by October. Mingo is a monster. He's like a D.K. Metcalf. He's like an absolute freak out there. And he's like trying to model his game after D.K. and A.J. Brown. Shadow Rookie of the Year candidate. Yeah, an Ole Miss, guy that wasn't

famous or big numbers at Ole Miss, but kind of like how Jarvis Landry, Nodell at LSU, or A.J. Brown and Dick and McKeff actually had better numbers in the NFL than they did in college. Yeah, yeah. Mingo's in that vein. Hi, Fitz, I want to throw out another sleeper here for you that I think, I don't know if we've honestly said his name in the last six to eight weeks. Zay Jones, wide receiver for the Jaguars, who, in the first preseason game, at least, was the starter. And he was playing ahead of Christian Kirk and three receiver sets. They're starting two receiver sets.

So again, you're talking about a guy who's starting on a team that has a good quarterback, whose offense we think he's going to be better this year. And he is one of the two guys that's going to be on the field almost all the time because he is playing that role as an outside receiver. He's not just stuck in the slot. Like I think Christian Kirk may be this year. And so there's a chance where way overrating Christian Kirk and way underrating, Zay Jones, who by the way, had 800 yards and five touchdowns last year.

And they paid him a lot of money. The Jags said the weirdest thing. I don't know how many times this has ever happened, but the Jags had three different players, Evan Ingraham, Zey Jones, and Christian Kirk all set career highs and catches yards and touchdowns in the same season, which I don't know how many times that's ever happened for three different players in one team. Wait, can I throw out one more here? Please do it.

John Mechie on the Texans, the second year guy. He missed year one because of a battle with leukemia. But this guy was the best wide receiver on Alabama in 2020. and now he's coming into the Texans team ostensibly healthy. And there is not a lot going on with the Texan's depth chart. You know, they have Nico Collins. They have Tank Dell, who everyone seems to be into online right now. But Metchie has the talent to take off.

And if him and Stroud form a connection, I mean, Metchie is one of those guys that's flown under the radar because he missed all of last year. But he's an incredible talent. It was amazing in college. I like that one a lot. He's just a good player. Who are the other players? or is in that Bama' team?

Metschie and it was Jameson. Jameson Williams. And. Because Devonthe Smith and Waddle had left, yeah. Maybe he was just like recoiled. I know. I think, I want to say James and Williams

probably led that team in receiving. But Metschie was talked about Craig as a potential first round type pick. Metschie led the team in catching that year. Sorry, receiving is how you say that. He led the team in catches with 96. Gotcha. Yeah.

High volume guy. 96 catches 2021. I love Metchy. I think this is a great one. He tore, I want to say he had an injury too. So he was coming off an injury and he got leukemia. So he lost all of his rookie season. And all reports now are that he's been healthy and looking good in that offense.

He is ostensibly the starter when they're going to be playing in three receiver sets. So this is a great one. He's sixth all time among Alabama wide receivers and receiving yards per game. Wow. That's saying something with the guys they've had out the last few years. Let's get to running backs again. Once you get outside the top 120-ish, 1-30-ish, you kind of throwing darts at the wall. Craig, who's a running back that you kind of just keep leaving as a dart throw, all your drafts with?

We've talked about him a couple times over the past few weeks. Jeff Wilson, running back on the dolphins. Jeff got out of year last year. He was traded from the Niners to the Dolphins halfway through the season. He had over a thousand total yards, Jeffrey. And he's behind, you know, he's kind of basically like the 1B behind Rahim Mostert, who's missed 33 games in the last four years. And they didn't trade for Delvin Cook.

So they have Devon A chain, kind of a burner rookie running back. But like, man, there's a chance. I mean, you can get Wilson outside the top 130, 140. And there is a chance that he could just be a starter for you if everyone's healthy in Miami. And he could be a flex option for you. And if anything happened to Rahim Moster, Jeff Wilson could be a top 15 guy. I love Jeff Wilson late. Coaches love their guys.

He didn't the, the dolphins, I believe, traded for Jeff Wilson, or at least they signed him, you know, when he was released. And it's, you know, he's just one of those veteran guys that coaches love. I think McDaniel's like, this guy gets from point A to point B. He runs really hard. He runs through guys faces. He's like a coach's true. It feels like the Niners have their guys more than any other coaching staff. Well, the Niners really have a cult of players.

Yeah. Rahimo, we think 27's old enough to get to Caprio. Rahim Moster's 31. So I think Jeff Wilson actually could be 1A. And I think I could be wrong on this. I think that Rahim Mostered Jeff Wilson at six games. That would they were healthy together. And Jeff Wilson out touched him like five of those six games.

So I love Jeff Wilson a lot. I love this one, Craig. D. Give us a running back that you're leaving all your drafts with very late in the draft. I think this guy's a must add late in the draft. Jalen Warren running back for the Steelers. Right now he is our RB 48, number 131 overall. Compare that to Najee Harris, who is our RB 10, 26 overall.

That is a huge, huge gap for two players of questionable. Like there's not a big difference between what they do on the field. I will put it that way. I think a lot of people actually believe that Jalen Warren is just straight up better than Najee Harris. Is Jailornerner, Tony Pollard? 100%. There's Pauler and Zeeke. It's a great call.

It's a great call. And I think, you know, stylistically, he's pretty similar too. Like he's one of these guys that super explosive kind of ping pongs off guys, breaks tackles, creates explosive plays. He's good in the passing game. And he's like way more efficient than the starting court starting running back in front of him. But he's probably not going to get a lot of volume unless something happens with Najee Harris. So I do think he's more of a handcuffed than like a stand.

standalone value, but there is some indication based on the way that this team has used to him in the preseason and just some of the camp reviews of how good he's been compared to Najee, that maybe for the first time in a long time, they actually use him, or they actually use sort of a committee at the running back position. So I think he's playing so well. There's a chance he just forces his way onto the field and you want to get a piece of that. And then, of course, also on top of that, if Najee goes down, he has absolutely elite upside in this offense as a three-down top.

type running back. So I don't know. To me, he's just a no-brainer late round pick. All these running backs are like, why can't we get paid? And then Najee Harris gets, the Steelers are one of the last teams to take a running back in the first round. And then they're like, is this undrafted free agent better than him? Yeah. Yeah. It feels like all Steelers fans collectively kind of get it. We all know that Jalen Warren's probably just as good as Naji Harris. Right. But we're just kind of not thinking about it. Like we know that we're probably not going to resign Najee and that Jailens should probably be getting more touches. But, you know, sink your feet in.

cost kind of just, you know, validate that draft pick. Keep giving Naji touches. Yeah. Speaking of which, Jaguars, first run pick under the Urban Meyer, Travis CTN. Yeah. And now third round pick, Tank Bigsby running back for the Jacksonville Jaguars. I've increasingly obsessed with Tank Bigsby. He's a 54th running back for us. Two tanks in the rookie class this year. Yeah. Dude. What are the odds? Again, honestly, I feel like I don't really need more of a pitch than Tank. His name's Tank. His last name's Bigsby. Hilarious together. Tank.

Great name. He's also good at everything that Travis E.N's not. He's a good receiver. I don't know if he'll necessarily be a great receiver as a rookie, but he's between the tackles, a good short-yardage runner. I just think of all these guys, we're in like handcuff range. We're like, oh, if Travis E. T.N. gets hurt. Tank Bigsby, it'd be good.

That's true. But Travis E.T.N. could be totally healthy, and Tank Bigsby could still have standalone value. Obviously, it's possible. Tank Bigsley is completely and utterly irrelevant this season. I also think there's a slim chance that Tank Biggsby actually is basically equal to Travis Ctn this season. I'm not saying that's likely.

I'm saying it's actually possible, but again, going 100 or more picks after Travis Ctien, I have no question I would rather draft Tank Bigsby in like the 15th round than Travis Eton in the fourth. So I love Tank Biggsby this year. Tank, former five star, former five star prospect.

His name is Cartavius Bigsby. So great name. When guys have nicknames like that are kind of based on like large objects or like, you know, fierce animals or something. It actually makes me think they're small. Like whenever I think of Tank Biggsby, I'm like, oh, he had to go by the nickname Tank because he's little, but he's not. He's actually like a big dude.

Right. You know what I mean? If he went by Cartavius Biggsby, I don't think I would think he was small. But for some reason, when they give him the nickname Tank, I'm like, oh, he's a little guy that runs really hard and they had to get him in time. Like, we think Deuce Vaughn would be named Tank. Exactly. A hundred percent.

All right. Craig, give us another guy. This is my favorite guy, I think, outside the top 120. Elijah Mitchell, the running back on the Niners. So he was amazing as a rookie. He was a fifth rounder. And then last year he was hurt a bunch, right? So they trade for McCaffrey in the middle of the year.

And they only played four games together. But when Elijah Mitchell and Christian McCaffrey were on the field together, McCaffrey was not quite the guy that everybody kind of thinks he is right now. That's what I'm worried about. Yeah. When they played together last year, McCaffrey scored only 16 fantasy points a game. Without Elijah Mitchell, McCaffrey scored 26, 10 more. With Elijah Mitchell on the field, McCaffrey had 11 rushing attempts per game.

Without Elijah Mitchell, 17 rushing attempts for game. And I'm not trying to like downgrade CMC. I'm really just trying to point out that when they're together on the field, it's almost kind of a split backfield, at least from a rushing perspective. They don't throw to Elijah Mitchell obviously nearly as much as they do Christian McCaffrey. But in weeks 10, 11 and 12, which is really the bulk of the season when McCaffrey and Elijah Mitchell were healthy and playing together, Mitchell out carried him by two, 34 to 32 carries. straight up.

And it's Shanahan's always on his bullshit. He doesn't want to overwork Christian McCaffrey. He wants him to be around at the end of the year. And Elijah Mitchell's like a really talented runner who fits really well in the zone running scheme. He's like one of the best zone runners in the league. And it's like you could probably start this guy at your flex. And God forbid Chris McCaffrey got hurt. Elijah Mitchell would immediately be a top 10 player in the league.

So I think he's a fantastic pick in the later rounds. In the league or in the fantasy community, they call this a flex with benefits, I think. A guy you can flex, but also someone who has absolute league winning potential if the guy in front of him goes down. Craig, this is a perfect example of the Jeff Wilson thing. Coaches love their guys. Elijah Mitchell is one of Shanahan's guys. And he's going to get him in there if he's healthy. The only question really is if he's healthy.

We're basically saying like the dolphins are kind of a microcosm of a kind of a sister offense of what the Niners do. We're basically just saying draft running backs in the Niners-E system because you never know who's going to pop off. and Elijah Mitchell is one of Shannon's guys and you should be drafting all of Shanahan's favorite dues in your team because he gives them the ball. Cut to week 11 when Christian McCaffrey and Elijah Mitchell are both her and Jordan Mason

is just the top one of the back team. That's what we're drafted to. Yeah. Ty Davis Price. Throw him on the list. D.K., give us another guy, running back sleeper. Another Zad from D.K. Hear me out. Hear me out. These are all Costanza picks. These are all guys that I don't actually logically want,

but I think the value is there, the potential is there. And I'm talking, of course, about Clyde Edwards-Alaire, running back of the Chiefs. He is our running back 56, 151 overall. Like, you can get him with the last round pick. All the ghosts are screaming. We're being haunted by everyone's screaming at this podcast right now. Just hear me out here. Imagine a scenario where a former first-round pick who has basically been injured his entire career

actually gets healthy. Rashad Penny. I'm not saying he's as explosive as Rashad Penny, but I think there's some similarities to the way that their career started out where they just got absolutely hamstrung, pun intended, by injuries at every turn, and they just couldn't

establish themselves on their team. And the team, you know, like with Penny, it was Chris Carson came in and basically took over. And then with the Chiefs, of course, it's Isaiah Pacheco kind of just, he was more reliable, so they're going to use him. I think there's a chance if CEH gets healthy that they use him the way that they were envisioning using him when he came out.

He was basically a really dynamic, versatile pass catcher, a guy who could play on all three downs, you know, a great like outlet for the, for the quarterback. And that's why they picked him in the first round. And then he just never was able to get healthy. If you go back to last year, remember Jerich McKinnon, scoring eight touchdowns on like a six-week stretch to end the season? I think there is a universe in which Clyde Edwards-Layer was that guy if he'd finally been healthy. So I just think it's worth taking a dart throw on Clyde Edwards-Layer in the off chance

that he just finally gets healthy and starts playing like a first-round pick. You know what I mean? So I'm not saying it's going to happen. I'm just saying there's a chance. There's a universe in which this does happen. I think he's a good sleeper. D.K. is like the crazy person outside your apartment building, like banging pots and pans with like, Clyde-Wordsillard, Michael Thomas. They all makes sense. And you're like, yeah, buddy, all right. Carry on. The reckoning is coming. No, I think here's my question, D.K. Would you draft like 10 team league? You're not drafting Clyde Edwards-Colera.

I feel like even a 12-team league. You're probably not drafting Clyde-Edwards-Aler. One dollar player at the end of the draft. But even in a 12-team league, you would put a dollar on them? Like you would just instead of just waiting on waivers? Yeah, I would. I think, again, you want a piece of the Chiefs offense. I think everybody is out completely on anyone not named Travis Kelsey, it seems like, in the Chief's offense.

which makes no sense to me. They're scoring a ton of points. They have Patrick Bahams. They pass. They run a ton of plays. There's fantasy gold. It's too good. They're too good.

I got to make money on this. Give me a piece. Again, all these sleepers that we're talking about, you have to build a narrative. That's why they're sleepers. That's why they're ranks like 56th of them running backs. You know what I mean? Like the market is out on these guys. But there is a, I think, a scenario in which Clyde Edwards-Dlair, who by the way, was a first-round

pick and has been hurt his whole. career, basically. So if he's finally healthy, there's a planet on which this could happen. That's all I'm saying. Where is that planet? How far is it away? I don't know.

One of the multiverse, you know? All right. A couple of rapid fire other running backs we want people to keep eyes on. Again, I'm not sure that these are necessary players you want to draft, but at the very least, we want you to know their names. And if you're in a deeper league, they are draftable. Samir White for the Raiders.

I think Josh Jacobs is going to play this season, almost definitely. But just in case. Samir White. running back backup. Dion Jackson on the Colts at Evan Hull, the rookie running back on the Colts, again, if Jonathan Taylor, I think he's going to play.

I think he's healthy. I don't know, one of those things. If not, Dion Jackson, I mean, Zach Moss is the main backup, but he broke his arms, so Dion Jackson, Evan Hull could start the season. I think Dion Jackson is pretty solid. Tide Chandler is probably the number two

running back in Minnesota. I don't know if he's special, but like, who knows, just throw a dart. It's a weird situation there. Ty Chandler, sorry, Jerome Ford for the Browns. It's very popular. behind Nick Chubb. So make sure he's healthy because I know he went down to practice a few days ago,

but Jerome Ford's talented player. Justice Hill for the Ravens, again, not a player of draft, but I won't be shocked. If the Ravens do start throwing a running backs more, I actually think that maybe Justice Hill could surpass Gus Edwards in value on that team, and I wouldn't be stunned if Justice Hill actually got some receiving work. But again, I would keep an eye on it. Eric Gray, handcuffed to Sequin Barclay.

If anything happened to Seekone, I think Eric Gray for the Giants would be, like, really, really good. I'm obsessed with them. Any of the running backs you don't want to throw out, just, Get on the record. I like that list. Rashad Penny.

Any other old running backs? D.K., you want to plug Todd Gurley next? No, he's officially retired. He's out. He's off all fantasy list at this point. I don't think you could draft him even if you wanted to. I paid you and everything. Yeah.

All right. Quarterbacks, sleepers. Just got one. It's a little different. I think, again, going against the market, everybody's way too out on Kyler Murray, man. He's our QB19, overall 139. We're much higher than Consensus 80P.

basically he's undraftable according to consensus ADP. His injury is certainly the reason why and we don't know exactly the timeline for when he's going to return. But again, if he returns sooner than everybody thinks, say it's like three or four games

after the season starts, you're getting what, 10, 9, 8 weeks of potential high end top 5 quarterback play. I think that's absolutely worth throwing a dart at. So honestly, even in a 1 QB league, I'm willing to take a dart throw

in this guy late and just stash And unlike Jameson Williams, you can actually put this guy on your IR. Yeah, there we go. We all agree that it's okay to put him on your IR spot. Injured players kill on IR. Yeah, I completely agree, DK. This is the only quarterback that I actually think counts as a sleeper. And it's just at the end of the day, you want upside.

It just doesn't happen very often. You just get Kyler and Murray with like in the 13th round. So that's kind of, honestly, I think that's kind of it for me in one quarterback league sleepers. if you're in a two-quarterback league or a super flex, I know Jordan Love, again, he might suck, but he's not going to get benched. So in a two-quarterback league, if you can make your, like, always get four quarterbacks in a two-quarterback league.

What a pitch. No, I'm serious. In a two-quarterback league, always get four, because everyone, someone eventually will need another one, and then no one wants to trade their backup. So it's impossible. So if you have four, and you always get the third and fourth ones, guys that aren't going to get, like, Mac Jones,

I don't, maybe, Bill Simmons thinks he will. I don't think Mac Jones is going to, get benched. I think Jordan Love is really good. Kenny Pickett all those guys. But I actually think Jordan Love is the highest ceiling. And I like Jordan Love a lot in the two quarterback league. Any other quarterbacks you want to throw a dart at? Yeah, Sam Howell was

named the starter for the commanders. I think he sucks. It's within a real possibility. Dude, I was at Ravens Camp that had joined practice with Washington. That offensive line might be worse than I thought. And I thought it was bottom three. And I think that might have been too generous.

He's going to be scrambling, baby. He's going to be scrambling for his life. and we like that in Fantasyland. He has like Baker Mayfield vibes, but I don't know if that's a good thing. Right. I don't know, man. He ran for a lot of yards. I don't think he's,

he's certainly not as explosive or, you know, elusive as some of the other top tier scrambling quarterbacks, but he is willing and able to run. And he likes to throw deep. So I don't know. That's a good question, though.

He ran for like a lot of yards in college. Didn't he run for like 7, 800 yards in his final year? You bring up an interesting point about speed. because Sam Howells 40-yard dash time was, let's see here. He ran a... 4-6, 4-6, 4-7, 4-8. But here's the thing. 4-6.

4-6? That's pretty good. It's like Josh Allen ran a 4-6. Justin Ross ran a 4-6. That's pretty funny. But if you're running from the Eagles D-Line, you've got to be moving faster, right? Like, you're running for your life, like adrenaline, survival instincts kick in. Like, if you're being chased by something, you'd have to run faster, right?

Totally, totally. So wait, wait, what is your, I don't, what's the point you're trying to make that when he's getting chased by Lyman, he'll be even faster? Yeah, the Combine's a 4-6, but if you're running to not die, it's like maybe he's a 4-4 athlete. At the Combine, they should have a lion, a real lion behind you and then let you run. It's like Talladega Nights putting a cougar in the back seat. Exactly. See how fast people run. Oh, my God.

All right. Tight ends, I almost think this is a caricature of ourselves of just, I know. Here are all these like late round tight ends that are exciting that you're going to cut three weeks in and stuff. Prefises by saying, just go get Travis Kelsey, get Mark Andrews. Or even you can't. Just get freaking Evan Engram or Pat Friarmouth. Just don't do this to yourself and don't. But maybe do.

Maybe do do it. But it might work for us. It might work for us. Okay. I'm going to run through these guys. And if you guys who want to co-sign your name on any of these, please let me know. Dalton Kincaid for the Bills. Yes.

He's our 153 player, tight-in-17. I think that's responsible. Say less, as they say. Sharks, are you in? lava. I love Dalton Kincaid. This is great because the tight end sleepers never work, and he's a rookie tight end sleeper,

which especially never works, but it could work for us. He's a wide receiver, and it's like, look, the ceiling is as high as, it's higher, frankly, than all the other players here. These are penny stocks. Yeah. And the floor is you only lose a cent, just like all the other tight ends.

Luke Musgrave for the Packers, the same deal. It's, if he is good, he'll be better than all the other options, but he probably will suck, but whatever. Somebody's got to catch passes on this team category. because like everyone on the Packers is like 23 years old and no one's established. So maybe it's Luke Musgrave.

Exactly. Every quote that you hear about Luke Musgrave both from beat reporters and from coaches and fans. He's amazing. Everyone is enamored with this person. He is like apparently having the greatest training camp of any player all time. Which you know means he's going to suck. No, it means he's going to get hurt. Yeah.

The person who takes Michael Thomas and Clyde, Edward's or Lair and Jameson Williams because they're Costanzing, they're going to win your league and the people being like, Luke Musgrave, go to football? No, you're going to lose. Other guy, those are upside picks. Deeply, there'll be on waivers probably, but. Add Sam LaPorteurta to the

as long as we're talking about rookies. You guys talk about Sam Leportez. But why? Because he actually has to learn how to block. Musgrave vizier, they're not going to have to learn to block. I don't know if that's true, though. I think he is, I think they've drafted Leporta to be a route running guy, like to be a past catching player. So I don't know. We'll see. I still think he's worth taking a

Also, I don't really understand what you mean when it says like he'll have to learn how to block. I mean, he knows how to block, right? That's what he was doing in college for half of his job. Wasn't he blocking? When I said learn to block, I mean, like it's like advanced in the NFL, but I mean, it's like he's like learning from scratch. He's not like a guy that grabbed off the street and teaching him at a block. Also, real quick to interject, Hyfitz, if you're saying he needs to learn to block, which I think

is true. However, I still think he's going to be playing. I still think he's going to be on the field regardless of whether he knows how to block or not. I think they will try and make him learn how to block. But who else do they have to throw out there at tight end? They're going to play him. He's been playing with the start-less in pre-season. They have Brock right, and don't they have still the Zilstra?

God, kill me. I don't know. My point is I think he's going to be the starter for the team. And that alone, I mean, like, he's on the field. He's going to be catching past these. He's going to be running routes, even if he still does need to learn. The problem with a lot of these rookie tight ends is they need to learn to block and therefore their team doesn't play them.

I think Sam Leporta needs to learn how to block. but the team is still going to play him. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. And speaking of the same situation, Jake Ferguson, Cowboys, that is the starting, probably, the starting tight end for the Dallas Cowboys.

Jake Ferguson, incredible, boring player, boring name. Nobody knows he exists. Dalton Schultz left the Cowboys. No one knows this guy exists. He's not going to get drafted. And again, if this guy's just good in week one,

check out our waiver show. There's a total chance. You can just add Jake Ferguson. He might be good. I don't even know if you have to draft him, but this is the kind of guy that when you bail on your shitty tight ed because it turns out Luke Musgrave was overhyped. You're like, oh, Jake Ferguson's starting.

Oh, another overhyped tight end I can draft. Perfect. Exactly. Hyphids, you mentioned he's boring. You know how I am. I'm in the dynasty streets. Like I know fourth and fistring receivers and tight ends on every team. I could not remember for the life of me this guy's first name the other day.

I was like, Ferguson. I don't know. Craig's, it's because you're a dad, though. No, that's your birthright as a father to slowly forget, first names. And it's like out the Ferguson kid. And then eventually you forget the names and you just say the kid from the college. He's going to start calling him Jack Ferguson and we're not going to correct him because it's sad.

No, you will correct me and I still won't change because I can't remember. My dad calls Dak Prescott Dax Prescott. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Josh Ferguson. Eventually the dads forget the names altogether and then suddenly like Jackson's Smith and Jigba's just the kid from Ohio State, even though he's like 31 at the time. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I like when older guys call like 40-year-old men kids. You know? I like when like a 70-year-old guy comes up to like his son who's 42 and he's like,

you're a good kid. I love that. Well, here's a good kid. Hunter Henry, tied in for the Patriots. Another guy that just, wow, you forgot he existed, didn't you? Totally chance. Hunter Henry just catches nine touchdowns this year. Patriots are going to have an adult big boy offense. John and Smith is gone. Hunter, Mike is sick he's a fake tight end. Hunter Henry is just starting tight end for the Patriots. He's completely utterly free. Again, another guy who I actually think might be on waivers in a 14-team league draft will conclude,

and you can probably still get Hunter Henry on waivers. And just the epitome of like catches a touchdown of week one and everyone adds them. And I don't know what kind of season he's going to have, but totally and utterly free. Just wanted to put him out there. I can't wait to draft like, Dalton Schultz or Chiga-Quonquo, they flame out.

And then for the entire year, I'm just living on Tide-in waivers. Hunter Henry is the perfect guy where I like check his stats in every game. He has like three catches for 38 yards. Every once in a while he has a touchdown. I'm like, you know what? Maybe he'll have a touchdown this week. That guy is going to be on- At least I'm not getting zero.

Hunter Henry, I'm going to give him the Waverwire Award, the preseason waiver wire award. He's going to be on the most fantasy teams at Tide-end this year. The Josh Johnson Award. We should do the Josh Johnson Award. Yes. Hyphins, did you know? I saw this. I was watching the preseason.

I know. I'm sicko. And they had, I can't even remember honestly what team he's on. I think he's on the Revens. I went to camp and I was like, Josh Johnson, is that you?

I literally couldn't remember what team he was on. Anyway, the point is they were talking about how many teams he's been on. He's been on 14 NFL teams, which is an all-time record in the NFL. So we haven't talked about this yet, but Immaculate Grid, the guessing game.

It's really fun if you haven't played it. Just Google like NFL Immaculate Grid. And it's just like a three by three square and it's a guessing game. But Josh Johnson's kind of like the human free space because he's been on 14 teams. That's actually a great point. I struggle with that game more than I thought I would.

You're too young, Craig. It's like name a guy who played for the Cardinals and Steelers. And I'm like, well, I lost. Like I just like can't. Unless it's like a really obvious trade that happened or a signing. Like I don't, I can't do that. All right. Those are our sleepers.

Let's do some emails. emails. Okay. Last episode. We're talking a lot about lobsters, seafood, a lot of things. Yeah. Did I get a lot of hate mail for the seafood takes? No, that's just in your own head.

I don't know why you're so judging yourself. I think a lot of people are not anti-seafood, but like don't prefer seafood. I feel like that's a common opinion. It's maybe like, I don't know, bias based on where I live. But like, if I tell anyone around here that I don't like seafood, they're like, what? Well, yeah, you live in a spot. Kai loves shrimp. Kai Fieri has the finer taste in life.

I love shrimp and I don't like. I mean, shrimp is fine. I'll eat shrimp, but you got to douse it. You know, we talked about it. Okay, continue. You got to devane it. You got to take the poop out. Why is a cocktail sauce only for shrimp cocktail?

Like, the fact they're like, oh, this expensive shrimp cocktail comes for the sauce and then we just don't eat the sauce in any of their context. What's up with that? Cocktail sauce is delicious. I kind of want to open like a, like a diner, but it's like, quote unquote, upscale, low scale. Gail like high-end, low-end diner mix, that's like chicken nuggets with, like, cocktail sauce, stuff like that.

Ooh, I like that idea. Yeah, I'm fine with that. I think the reason why is I don't think cocktail sauce is actually that good. I think it, like, only works with shrimp. Have you done the thing that's like where it's like really spicy with the horse radish sauce or whatever? Yeah, of Jewish, of course, I don't want a French fry dipped in cocktail sauce. That sounds bad to me. Dude, I, oh my God.

I kind of think it sounds good. It's a great name. Cocktail sauce is a fantastic. It does. Evocative. It is evocative. Gets the people going. Yeah, it evokes something in me. But another, and you know what? And I think tartar sauce is really good.

Terrible name. Terrible. If Tartor sauce was called cocktail sauce, it'd be the biggest sauce in the world. I think dipping many things in carton and tartar sauce is really good. Tartar is a horrific name. Horrible name. Tartters like the Jeff Wilson.

We were talking about the things dad's call old stuff. Like we were talking about Washington, you know. a lot of dads called ketchup cats up. Oh, cats up. That's a milk category for me. We also never talked about how the

grandmother and wedding crashers says Washington and we never caught. Does she? Oh, does she? It has to be extended edition. Oh, yeah, it must be. Yeah, she says Washington. Maybe I don't know.

My boy down in Washington. Yeah, you're probably, it's probably in the regular one. I think I'm remembering what you're talking about. All right, wait. Email from Ryan. Ryan. Ryan. Ryan.

Ryan, right guy. Right, this is the same guy who's saying his grandmother on Facebook is always saying, like, sign off. Hey, like, thanks, dash barb, even though her name's above the comment. And he says, I can't tell how often my grandmother says, when I was a little girl, I ate so much lobster since we didn't have any money. Lossure is only for poor people. And so Ryan's like, this must have been one of the marketing jobs of the century. Because like, all those stories used to give lobsters to prisoners in Maine. Yes, Ryan.

join the club here. Join the cult against lobsters being expensive. They're just sea bugs. They are. They are. Dude, David Foster Wallace, consider the lobster man. Read it. You don't have to, but they're sea bugs.

That's the point. You know, I've read some things about lobsters that, like, we don't even know how long they can live because we keep dying. They're technically biologically immortal because I think their cells don't age. What? They're technically biologically immortal. They're, lobsters are immortal. They're like the elves.

There's a lot of lore around lobsters. But like, I've heard that there are lobsters that like keep outliving human beings. So we like, and it was like before we were like recording how long we were alive. So there are lobsters. We have no idea out. They could be alive hundreds of years. We don't know. There's a, there's a shark called the Greenland shark that.

Yes. They've been alive since like the 1600s. It's like how to figure that out for us. Yeah, the sharks. Well, I think it's because they're in like the ice cold waters. of like the Arctic Ocean. Ice baths are big for a reason. Dude, yeah.

Wim Hof sharks out here. It says, scientists estimate the Greenland shark lives at least 250 years. That's crazy. How old is America? About 250. Right. Coming up on it.

Crazy. Wow. It's almost as old as Michael Thomas. The shark probably remembers Michael Thomas playing football. I wonder if they get bored out there, swimming around. just swimming around. They've seen things come and go.

They get bored out there. Rolling Stone gathers no moss. They just pop in an iPod or an AirPod and just listen to a podcast. Do you think they're only friends with other Greenland sharks because any other species that they, you know, the friend, just die? Yeah, they're like the sorcerer of stone. They're like, I don't even want this anymore. It sucks. I don't get that.

Oh, my God. Drake. God damn it. Over the head. It's like in. Blue blood, how all the vampires, all their friends die, but they just keep living. Is that help, Craig? Did you watch True Blood?

I didn't. No, we were too young for all the nudity. It was like, nudity? Wait, hold on. Let me check this out. HBO, baby. Homebox office, as Gramps would call it. Homebox.

Homebox. Homebox. Homebox. Come the Sopranos on the Homebox. It's from Ryan. Another Ryan? Another Ryan? Yeah, different Ryan.

So, God, how to explain. On the last episode, we were talking about fake foods and people emailed us about how some foods or other foods. And it turns out that vanilla extract comes from, fake vanilla extract comes from some anal gland. Beaver. Ryan emailed it and said the question of why would you go to the trouble of making imitation vanilla out of beaver anal glands instead of just growing more vanilla plants? How would you know to even start there? How would you know if you even test that? You know, you know what, don't ask questions you don't want to know the answer to.

You smell it. You smell, when you're taking apart a dead beaver or live, I suppose. They were like, let me get in this. Live or stuffed. Yeah. They're like, hmm, this smells, this smells good. This makes me want. And you got on a nice tail.

This makes me want some French toast or something. Who wants to bake? Yeah. Anyway, good God. Vodella plants, very finicky. Take one to four years to bloom from the seed. Wow. And then they require hand pollination using like a chop.

A chop. Or cotton swab. You got to grow a fucking beaver, though. What do you mean they require hand pollination? I don't know. You have to, I don't know. Maybe they're like. How did vanilla survive then?

Well, they're like English bulldogs. You know how like some bulldogs they're actually not able to give natural birth? Because like we have to have to, they can only give birth for you a C-section because we bred them in a way where they can't actually like, they wouldn't survive on their own with us. So vanilla evolved in such a way that it cannot live without human interaction? I guess. I mean, I probably should have fact-checked Ryan's, you know a little more. I don't want to say that. that with my life on the life.

Tell you tall tails. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So. I love vanilla. Best, best ice cream flavor. IMO.

The funny thing is we use vanilla to say like bland. Hot cake. It's actually very exotic flavor. I so agree with that high fits. It's completely been co-opted by whoever started using vanilla to mean boring. But if vanilla was not the color white, if vanilla ice cream was like pink, I think people would think it was much more exotic and tasty than it is and less boring. I think that's true.

That is a season. Sorry, Joe, where he's like, bed bathed beyond. It's like, want one of them jars with the sticks. It makes my room smelling vanilla bean. Anyway. Do you guys have a preference on, like, ice cream that is vanilla bean versus French vanilla? Can you tell the difference? Do you care? If I said with a straight face, I knew the difference, I couldn't tell you how much of a liar I would be.

But I do love vanilla. If you had to choose, though, which would you pick? Which calls to you more of vanilla bean or French vanilla? I couldn't, I think this speaks to marketing that I couldn't tell you right now if vanilla bean is the term for actual real vanilla or if it's the term they made up to actually use fake vanilla. But I would pick vanilla bean because I feel like that's what Hagen does does. But then again, Hagen does is a made up term that is not actually a phrase. They thought it sounded vaguely Nordic. So they just invented the word Hagenaz, but it's not a real word.

I think the vanilla bean evokes for me, Craig, like a little texture in the, in the ice cream. Is that incorrect? No, because they, I mean, some of them have little black specks that are like, quite literally the beans. That's the bean. I like that's what I want. I think it's like cream. I don't know. I just think it's creamy.

Different flavor profile. You can talk a little bit about French vanilla. You've seen that video of the guy who tastes ice creams and can like, he is like the best palette of all time. There's like a famous YouTube video. I think it has to be. And he goes, yep. Let it, let it cover all 10,000 taste buds. Stop.

And it's like he can identify. He can, like, tell the difference between any ice cream in the world. What a talent. Look him up. It's hilarious. That's incredible. Also, they call him the tongue. I thought that was they called you.

No? In high school? Yeah. Oh, man. On that note, Brian, two Ryan's that a Brian. Brian. God, we have so many white dudes who listen to this show. Incredible.

Can't wait for the live show next Tuesday. Brian emailed and just didn't even say to the email. just put in the subject line. Hyford said he would reach around for a player. I know. I noticed that too. He'll reach around. I didn't notice that.

Phrasing. Do you guys watch Archer? Fraising. We're not doing phrasing anymore? I've seen Archer. Funny show. H. John Benjamin. Archer, season one is like an all-timer, I would say.

H. John might have the best voice in animated television history. Oh, my God. Yeah. Also the premise where it's like Lucille Bluth runs the CIA and her drunken asshole son is like entitled James Bond. Before ISIS became ISIS. Dude, yeah, the CIA in the show is called ISIS and it came out like

2011 and then ISIS became a thing. We should probably change the name of this. Yeah. Well, they changed and then they changed the name of the show. And they were like, oh wow, that's a huge problem. All right. Well, I'm that incredible. Dude, but Archer's season one, truly.

Yes. In the Pantheon, greatest seasons of all time in any show. No, I totally agree. I've only seen like random episodes, but I've enjoyed all of them. Dude, the idioms one when he's a pirate, pirate king. The pirate's, that's like season two or three. That's a way later. All right.

Fantasyfutball.the ringer.com. Top 200 players. All these guys who talked about. Emails for your fantasy football at gmail.com. If you have thoughts on, I mean, football. Fantasy football are drafts, I suppose. Also, beaver glands, French vanilla versus vanilla bean, archer, lobsters. People had a lot of thoughts on lobsters, man.

Is you know any animals that live kind of an extremely long period of time? Let us know. I'm very curious about the animals that defy. Like tortoises? Yeah, tortoises live a long time. No, but they die of old age. Lobsters don't die of old age. That's what it's about.

Which is pretty fucked up that we eat them then. You know what I mean? Yeah, right? They just live for thousands of eat. Maybe I can have that. It's like how we cage birds. It's like they can fly, you know? This is a Brian Regan joke.

I've been blessed with the gift of flight. Thanks. put me in a cage. I'm one of the very few species on earth that can fly. Cool. This is how I feel. You're letting the dog run around the house. Meanwhile, I'm in a cage.

This is how I feel, though, when you two are flying, whenever we have to travel somewhere, you two hate flying. And I'm like, we are like Greek myths. We are literally like the only generation of people ever that have been able to fly in planes and gaze at the earth from 30,000 feet. And I'm like, it's truly a miracle. It's fun. We were not gifted.

with flight, unlike birds. We are meddling with modern physics and science. We were not meant to fly. We're meddling. The odds of you getting in a car crash in Los Angeles are so much higher. Actually, I don't want to jinx it. I don't think they are, actually, because you can't go faster than 25 miles an hour in L.A. So maybe fender benders are more likely.

All right. I have a rule. When a podcast talks about traffic in L.A., we have to stop. Thank you, D.K., thank you, Craig. Thank you, Kai. Thank you, Jack. Thank you, Tucker. Thank you, everyone for all the help.

Thank you, Lorne. Lauren. Thank you. Jefferson Airplane slash Jefferson Starship. Yes. I think now they're just Starship. Yeah, that sounds right.

I was first introduced to them by Wet Hot American Summer's intro song, which is one of the greatest intro's James. Great song. Jefferson Starship or Jefferson Airplane is awesome. Great band. Hell yeah.

Let's put Jane on the mix for our live show. How about that? I'm super down. Be honest. Have you heard of Jefferson Airbus? airplane. I said actually, no, I have no idea. You definitely know their songs. You've probably heard that song. I'm going to play Jane right now. Oh, dude. Great crescendo intro.

Jane is like an all-timer for me. I've heard this song. Yeah. What's because you've seen What Out American Summer, right? I actually have not. I just know it's like legendary, but I've not actually watched it's a good one on American awesome movie. I even thought the remake television show wasn't that bad. The brilliance of the remake of the television show or whatever is like it's a prequel, but they're like 20 years older. And the same actors play. They just look old and haggard and they're supposed to be like middle schoolers. It's great. Dude, the cast for Wet Hot American Summer, which came out in 2001 is kind of insane.

It's Bradley Cooper, Paul Rudd, Amy Poehler, Janine Garofalo, Ken Marino. There are a million people. Christopher Maloney, Molly Shannon. The Elizabeth girl. What's, Elizabeth Banks. Yes, yes,

she's good. It was like every single actor that right before they became like an actual A, B Lister in Hollywood. How have you not seen this? You're the one, Hyphids,

you're the one that went to like Jewish day camp or whatever or sleepover camp. Is that what it's about? It's like based on. Yeah, it's like on the last day of camp in like the 80s of summer camp. Oh, wow.

Yeah, you would love it, Hyphitz. Oh, it is right up your alley. Yeah. It's very like lonely islandy. It's very like,

uh, slapstick over the top. A kid gets hurt and they drive away from the camp and kick him out of the van and then just keep driving. There's a scene. They kill several kids during this day. Remember the castors leave? They leave for like, there's a 10 minute montage of them leaving the camp to go into the little town,

the little downtown and they do heroin. It's a montage of them just like gradually getting crazier. Yes, they go do heroin and then just come back and everything's fine. It's great if we can get away even for an hour. They're like strung out. It's really good. I highly recommend it. The movie, not heroin.

Yeah, the movie, not heroin. And Jefferson Airplane. All right, goodbye, everyone.