The Ringer NFL Show - Mike Tomlin Steps Down! Steelers' Next Steps, and Hottest Coaches Available.

Episode Date: January 14, 2026

The guys reflect on Mike Tomlin’s 19-year run in Pittsburgh, what made him special, and why the Steelers finally decided it was time for change. They also debate the risks of moving on from stability, where Tomlin could end up next, and what this moment says about how the NFL treats long-tenured coaches. (00:00) Intro - Tomlin Steps Down (28:07) Where Does Tomlin Go Next? (52:07) Coaching Carousel (58:23) Emails Discord link: https://discord.gg/Ge8bbYHrau Check out the 2025 Ringer Fantasy Football Rankings: https://fantasyfootball.theringer.com/ Email us! [e-mail] Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Producers: Kai Grady, Carlos Chiriboga, and Cameron Dinwiddie Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

with the Ringer Fantasy football show. My name is Dana Hyde Fitz. I'm joined by Danny Kelly and a crestfallen Craig Horsbergh. Let's just get right to it. Craig, you're a Steelers fan. Mike Tomlin, Steers coach, has decided to step down.

Craig, how do you feel about this? I feel conflicted because I think this is the right move and yet I'm really sad. I feel like Tomlin has become a punchline the last couple seasons. And I actually think I want to pivot and go sincere here.

I think I could have been like, yeah, man, like we can't win the big one. You know, nine straight seasons without a losing record and zero playoff wins. There's all the stats. You can't miss one of them on Twitter right now. It is just filled with all the stats about how Tomlin has done in the playoffs the last nine years. But I don't know, man. Tomlin didn't have a losing season for 19 years. And I think that is one of the most remarkable.

Like, if you just kind of pull back and think about that, did not have a losing season. season for 19 years. Every year he was a head coach in the NFL, he did not have a losing record, which I think is absolutely incredible. To me, he currently is and will forever be the coolest coach in the league, my favorite coach of all time. An unbelievable quote, a real old school coach, like a real motivator, a floor raiser, a mentor, a guy who like cared about all the little stuff, cared about the personal lives of all these athletes and players on his team. Tomlin is like what you think of when you look up what a coach is in the dictionary. He is the quintessential coach. So look, do I think this was the right move? Yeah, probably. Things are going stale. The coordinators

have not been good for a long time. You know, a lot of this can be, I feel like a lot of the discussion here is about personnel and coordinators and stuff like that. Because if you look at it kind of from a base level, it's like what Tomlin was able to do since the pandemic, basically, with 39-year-old Ben Rathusberger, with Duck Hodges, with Mason Rudolph, with Kenny Pickett, with Russell Wilson, with Justin Fields, with 42-year-old Aaron Rogers. He never had a losing season with all those quarterbacks. Like, that is impressive and that he is a floor raiser.

Right. And you could say the Steelers hung on too long. You could call the Steelers stubborn. You could also call them loyal and stable and steady. They've had three coaches since the moon landing and are now looking for their fourth, which is unbelievable. So, yeah, this is better sweet for me because I think he is, outside of Bill Belichick,

he is more tied to his team than any coach of the 21st century. Well, how do you follow that up? I was supposed to be like making fun of this or something. But yeah, I was like, you know what, I'm going to start sincere because I think, I think the jokes have gone.

The jokes are funny and I've been doing them all year and I said Thomas should be fired two months ago. But it was as recently as last week when they beat the Ravens in remarkable fashion, I was like sweat back up and I was like, keep them. I love him. He's the best. I'm guessing, like,

Patriots fans can probably relate a little bit when Belichick left. Obviously, Raven fans with Harbaugh. It reminds me a lot of when Pete Carroll left because it was like very much the same thing. And I think, Craig, we went through a very similar process where I was alternating between Pete's the best. Pete's the best. We got to keep him. He just raises the floor. It was the same exact deal.

Like every year he was competitive, didn't have a losing season for like 10 straight years or whatever. 11 straight years. And, you know, there's a feeling it's almost like a. father figures, like he's a guiding light for the city in a lot of ways, like guiding you through these wins and losses, the ups and downs, like all the quotes are so funny. Um, so I can very much relate to like the feelings you're having when I felt the exact same way, I think when Pete left, but it was very much like it's time, probably a good moment for new ideas to come in.

Um, and, you know, just after a certain amount of time, what are you doing to get better? What are you doing to get over that hump? Obviously, like, I think he gives you the. floor, but how do you get a little bit better so you can finally start winning some playoff games is kind of like the bottom line. I think Rogers provided almost like a nice natural period on this chapter where it's like he came in for Mike Tomlin. I don't think Rogers is going to come back. I didn't think he was regardless. I don't think he wanted to be in Pittsburgh with Mike Tomlin. He could go to a different team still, but I definitely don't think he'll be back on the Steelers.

And if I had to guess, I think he's going to retire. Aikman on the broadcast last night seemed pretty sure that Rogers was going to retire. I don't know if he was inside or info on that or if it's just his gut as a former quarterback. But this did feel like kind of a natural ending point in a time for the Steelers to pull back. I mean, look, when they hired Tomlin in 2007, that was kind of an unexpected hire. He was not an internal hire. And he had been a defensive coordinator for one year prior to that. He was the youngest head coach in the league when he came to the Steelers and turned into the longest

tenured coach in the NFL. So I think this is a natural, like we should be absolutely celebrating. this and I do not time will eventually favor how we look back on Tom and I think there is a little bit of a punchline right now because of like the last four or five years but we're going to look back on what Tomlin did obviously is incredibly won a Super Bowl he went to two of them but yeah I think this is a natural point I like that the Steelers said that you know he is stepping down it's not a firing even though it probably was a mutual parting of ways or I don't know you know exactly how that went down but I think this is right I think this is right across the board yeah I mean the and again

And we're going to get to what Mike Tomlin does next, too, because Mike Tomlin is 53 years old. And this is not the end for him unless he wants it to be. 20 years younger than Pete Carroll. 20 years younger than Pete Carroll. Mike Tomlin is 10 years younger than John Harbaugh. So you want to talk about having a second act or whatever. You think about what Andy Reid did in Kansas City after leaving the Eagles.

Like Mike Tomlin can go and have a 15 year coaching career somewhere else. And that would not be weird by any stretch of the imagination. I also heard I think Mike Florio from Pro Football Talk said this last. night on Twitter that there's the word on the street is Tomlin has a TV deal in his back pocket. Well, let me tell you something. As somebody who produced, I mean, we've all been witness to Tomlin in a press conference. I did the podcast Flying Coach. Tomlin and Rahe Morris were guests with McVeigh and Peter Schrager back in 2021. There is no better quote in the world. And Tomlin would be the best broadcaster we have. They should double his salary compared to Tom Brady's

because he would be immediately the best color guy, booth analyst, whatever you want to do, the studio, he would be incredible. There's no word. Honestly, the best outcome for us is probably that Mike Tomlin does a year of media, like Sean Payton, except actually says things on like Sean Payton, where he wouldn't really break stuff down. But Tomlin in the booth, Tomlin at studio would be great, and then he can kind of just pick his litter of the jobs,

whatever job he wants. But, I mean, it's such a big, I mean, it's hard to capture 19 years. I mean, it's 20, it's a couple decades. And I think, frankly, when we start to look forward at other jobs where he might go next, I think maybe we can get into some of the flaws. But I agree with Craig that I think it's the right move to start with. Tomlin was awesome and Tomlin was one of the towering figures. I feel like in my growing up loving football.

Tomlin was hired in what, 2007? I think he has been there for so long. He's like an institution. You know what I mean? It's like that line from the Grand Budapest Hotel. It's like, why do you want to work here? It's like it's an institution. He was like larger than life, man.

And it's like an era just ended. Like this Steelers Ravens rivalry that John Harbault leaving the Ravens, Tomlin leaving the Steelers. Like, an era is over. And frankly, that was the best rivalry of Mike, of me growing up. I mean, the Steelers Ravens can't go through all of it. But like, there was that game where the Steelers were hitting Willis McGe. The Steelers hit Willis McGahey so hard.

And the Ravens and Steelers hit each other so hard. They changed all the rules in football of how you can tackle people because of how Mike Tomlin and the Ravens decided to play football. And so the mark is incredible. I mean, Tomlin's going to finish. He finishes with exactly as many wins in Steelers history as Chuck Null. which is incredible. And he did it in 30 less games. It's amazing.

And again, the 19 years without a losing, I know everyone knows this, but like when you actually pause and think about that, think about the Jets. Like, think about some of the teams that are yearning to have a fucking nine and eight season. Anything can happen.

Bill Belichick had three or four losing records in his career. Tom Brady leaves. They collapsed. Tom Brady, you know, it's like things happen. The fact that Tomlin, no matter what,

through aging old sack of potatoes Ben Rathesberger all the way through the muck of the last five years to grind out 9 10 8 910 when seasons is remarkable yeah it's hard to be competitive in the NFL honestly it's it it is a huge accomplishment to be in in the mix at least every year he was just so cool man like the quotes like everything the vibe like I kind of miss him already like I think I don't think there's going to be a belichick period where there's just like this immediate fall from grace like we will get to tell our kids about like no no no this guy's nothing like Mike Dahmah, though. So it's, I'm sad.

And like, it's weird, though, because I don't know, we could talk about next. But before that, I don't know, D.K. I mean, D.K., you went through this with Pete Carroll too. And like, I do think that is kind of what happened, though, too, where you look at Bill Belichick in New England. You look at Pete Carroll in Seattle. You'll get John Harbaugh with the Ravens, which just happened. You see this through line of it's just time for change. Like 20 years.

He's a long time in any business, in any industry, 20 years is, it's closer to a marriage at some point than it is to a business relationship after two decades. I think you do see some through lines. I think the, the Belichick not being able to replace Brady. Ben Rothensberger is not Tom Brady, but the Steelers didn't really, they were not able to replace Ben Rothesberger. I don't want to reduce it down to that,

but I do think it's half is not really taking off in seriously. Like they could have took a first-run quarterback, put him behind Ben Rothesberger. They took Mason Rudolph, who sucked. Like, they replaced Rothesberg with Kenny Pickett, who you could scour the entire country for a quarterback, and they went with the guy who already worked in the building at the University of Pittsburgh,

which is like kind of, wild that that's they're like no no he's already here he works here that's the Kenny picket thing was insane rogers um i think that part but also i think the p carroll thing is right there too and we're going to have to get into that when we talk about what you want to do with mike tom and i think the same way pt carroll just went to the raiders and tried to implement this defense that frankly was 10 years old we can get into it but like you know tomlin he didn't want to change and i think that's part of what makes him awesome and made mike tomlin mike tomlin made him cool, made him really successful. I think if Mike Tomlin wanted to change, probably would have

had a losing season. But also, I think that when it comes down to it, the Steelers were always competing for the playoffs, but the Steelers for 10 years just really, they weren't competing for the Super Bowl. Yeah, 100%. I mean, you can look at the coordinators are interesting. The coach obviously has a big saying that, that the quarterback situation has been bad since Ben left. If you look at the coordinators for the Steelers, basically since like 2018, the offensive and defensive coordinators, none of them go on to coach anywhere else. Yeah, where are they? Dude, let's like, where's Matt Canada right now? Matt Canada never coached again after the Steelers. Keith Butler, the defensive coordinator, never coached again after the Steelers. Offensive coordinator,

Todd Haley, who they had during a large stretch of the teens, coach the Browns for one year after that and then went to high school. And I bet Terrell Austin, the defensive coordinator right now, I don't think he's going to be back. And I bet you he is not a defensive coordinator next year on an NFL team. So the coordinators that the Steelers have hired over the last five to seven years. have been very bad. And a lot of that falls on Tomlin. So, well, this is the hard part of the conversation, which is, I think, getting into, like, what kind of candidate is Tomlin and everything?

Like, the reality is that the Steelers did not, like, Mike Tomlin's defense is, like, were not built to beat modern offenses. And the Steelers have just decided to not run modern offenses and not do modern defenses. Like, I was looking at my notes of what I wrote down in the Steelers before the season began. The thing I wrote down is the Steelers are an outdated organization

with a head coach running an outdated defense and a quarterback running an outdated defense. at offense in Aaron Rogers. Can anyone evolve before this blows up? And the reality is that the Steelers went out not scoring a touchdown on offense and the defense can't stop the Texans running game, which I mean, the Texans blew him out 30 to six.

But the reality is the... It was 10, six in the fourth, but yeah. Seven to six, entering the fourth. I, the thing I would go to a Tomlin, and I think in a nutshell where you're, like the offense is obvious, right? It's like Aaron Rogers is old. Ben Rothesburg was old. They should have moved on.

It's like, Kenny Pickett was bad. That part everyone gets. the offenses have been terrible. People don't need to explain that part. I think what happened to Tomlin on defense to me is summarized by Julian Edelman, of all people, who I wrote this down last year, last January, Julian Edom was talking about this.

And he was talking about how easy it is to manipulate the Steelers defense and how much they would do it in New England. And he was talking about little things like putting a slot receiver on a lineback or how much easier it was. And Julian Edelman said, and this is quoting him, the Steelers did what they did.

You knew exactly what they were doing every time and they still do what they do. They still do the same goddamn shit that they did when I was playing Tomlin's defense. He said that last year, Julian Edelman said that last year about games from 2019. And like that is what it's about.

Football has changed a lot in the last five or six years. And Tomlin decided to just not adapt. And the through line of that is from seven years of playoff exhibits. I think the last seven playoff games that Steelers had, they were down by 21 points

at some point during the game. Not only that. Not only that. So they've had six straight, one and done, basically, in the playoffs. And in all six of those losses, they never, they've trailed on every single snap in the second half in all six of those. And down by 21 points in all six of those games. And so you see the through line of they're not competing with the cutting edge offenses. And you see that even this season where it's like Jamar Chay, Joe Flacco gets traded to Bengals.

He's been there like five or six days. And then Jamar Chase gets 23 targets on Thursday football. And the 23rd target of the game is wide open. It's funny because the style that you're talking about, high fits with Tomlin, is like how they lost last night because the Texans basically beat the Steelers doing what the Steelers and Mike Tomlin think that they're good at.

The Texans are actually like the least disguised defense in the NFL because they have the talent. They just line up man to man. They're like, let's go. You versus me. We'll win. And of course they did because their defense is awesome with Stingley and Lasseter and Will Anderson and Hunter and all these guys.

And the Steelers are kind of still trying to do that, but they no longer have the steel curtain. They no longer have these players and the best personnel in the league. And that's why they get crushed half these. I mean, they give up big plays left and right. Christian Kirk had three 40-yard catches last night. They couldn't stop the run against a terrible,

not good rushing offense. Like there's glaring issues on the defense for a while now. This is what happened Pete Carroll in Seattle too, where the plan is, your plan is, we're going to outplay you because our players are better. And then you're coaching up players, but you're not actually coaching players to deceive or disguise, right? It's very similar to Pete Carroll.

I mean, it is, it's the exact same conversation we had in Seattle. It's like he's not adapting. He's just doing the same old thing that he's been doing for the last whatever years. And honestly, like from both Pete Carroll's point of view, Mike Tomlin's point of view, I do think it is a, it's a thin line between focusing on the things that are actually important in football. But also at the same time being able to like adapt year in and year out. So basically, like, I think Pete Carroll's whole philosophy, and I remember reading in his book, I think he said this in his book, would forever.

He was talking to Tom Osborne, who was like the great coach at Nebraska back in the day. And there's a quote in there about how Osborne's like, look, the media and, you know, the fans and everybody, they're going to try and get you to change year in and year out and try and do the newest thing and try and change, blah, blah, blah. He's like, but at the end of the day, like, you have to adhere to what you believe it gives you the best chance to win games every year, every week. And I think that was like with both Pete Carroll and Mike Tomlin, it was always just like, look, run the ball, play good defense, don't turn the ball over.

These are the oldest things in football. And they're still true. It just is a matter of fact that you have to get the best players too. You have to get very good players in order to win in the NFL consistently. I think the Steelers had the thing where they had pretty good players across the board for a long time. but then attrition happens. Some of the hires on offense and defense probably didn't really work out that well. And that's just kind of like how it went.

It was the most expensive defense in the NFL and they were gashed by the Houston Texans for 164 yards, which are three yards off the most rushing yards they had all year. So I think at the end of the day, I can see where guys like Tomlin and some of the older school coaches come from in terms of like, this is what we believe in. This is the best way to win ultimately at the end of the day. this is a proven championship formula. That's what Pete Carroll used always say. But at the same time, you really do need to have some ability to adapt to the trends of the day and figure out how to best.

And that's like right now you see all the new coaches are scheme lord type guys that can kind of adapt on the fly to what's like working and what's not working. I mean, look at McVeigh. McVeigh, I think right now is kind of the gold standard. You mean the second longest tenured coach in the NFL, 39-year-old Sean McVeigh? But like when you think of the Sean McVeigh offense, what is it? Because it's been like three or four different things since he got hired. And that I think is what makes him so great. And that's why at the end of the day, again, I just kind of think you have to be able to,

while you have the same core philosophies, I think McVeigh still has this where he's like, you know, play good defense to defend the run, run the ball, all that stuff, kind of old school vibes. But McVeigh has a little bit of Tomlin in him. Totally. McVeigh has that like, he's a great quote. motivator of men mentality to him, blended with the guru play caller thing. He's just a head of the curve.

He's hired really young, too. Yes, hired really young. Like, he has that grittiness to him where he, I mean, that's why he's the best coach in the league. And he would be my first pick because I believe he is Mike Tomlin and Kyle Shanahan mixed into one. And, you know,

there's this video game called Ghost of Sushima, which was really cool. It's kind of like Red Dead Redemption, but it's like you're a samurai in Japan. And it's, basically it's i swear i'm going somewhere at this but basically this guy's a samurai and the mongolians invade japan and they have guns and so the samurai way of fighting just to get slaughtered like because the samurai there's this coat but there's this they cannot compete with fucking cannons and guns and everything and so there's this one samurai left who basically it decides that he needs to break the samurai

code and like he invents being a ninja like sneaking up and killing them which is considered like crazy dishonorable. So there's this giant fight in Japan of just like, can we fight this way? Do we lose who we are? Would we rather lose and be who you are than do something we don't respect and maybe win? And that's like the game. And so part of the game is you have to decide how you play. Do you want to fight them straight up and it's fucking hard or like and, you know, respect the code? Or do you want to be a ninja and sneak up and stab people? You're not really, and like, you can find a win, but it's kind of dishonorable. And there's no like victory. It's just, you just make a decision of how you want to play.

And I kept thinking of that when I thinking about Tomlin because, like, honestly, it's, it's not just an X's and O's scheme thing. It's philosophical. And I think for someone who cares as much about football from my Tomlin, it's like, borderline moral of like, this is how you play football. This is how I coach players. Like, we're going to line up and execute. And he's the last of a dying breed.

And, like, Pete Carroll and all these guys are like all, like, the idea of you disguise stuff and everything that's going on in modern. defense. That's things that happen, but that's not who they are at their core. They're coaches. They're educators. They're telling people how to execute fundamentals. And I think these guys are getting wiped out. Yeah. It's hard to, it's, Craig, you said it, I think a couple of weeks ago. It's like hard to make a second show, you know, like a second hit. I mean, they spend the 10, 15, 20 years learning a defense inside it out and being able to teach it and all the little nuances and intricacies that go into a defense and then you're like do what wait i got to

fucking change this off season and learn some new defense i know that there's you know it's a lot more complicated than that it's not so simple but um it is it is just like it's very few people can kind of adjust on the fly the other thing i want to throw out here is this is something john schneider said when p carroll was fired or they decided to part ways or whatever and uh schneider said basically Marty Schottenheimer back in the day told them that coaches shouldn't be in a job more than 10 years because just the message starts to get stale. Yeah. You know, you're doing the kind of the same thing every year.

Like, you just have to have some new stuff, new ideas, a new voice, new messaging, some freshness to it. And I think that's like also part of this. Like you just don't see coaches last that long because ultimately stuff starts to get kind of stale. I feel like that's why Harbaugh went. I don't think Tomlin's message was stale. I think it was the X's and O's and the refusal to have an offense that looked anything resembling from 2015.

Like, I think the most under-dustust part of the Steelers Rogers' Talman thing was that Aaron Rogers beat Mike Talmud in the Super Bowl, which we don't talk about enough as like they're both kind of wanted it to be 2010, 2011 again. And they, you know what I mean? That's when they peaked. And it's, you know, it's, you like music from like, you know, probably whatever, you know, people in their teens and you like what you like. And like, honestly, the kind of football that they're like, that's my kind of football is

from when they were on top. And it was a long time ago. They didn't want to change. But I want to get to what Tomlin happens next, the Steelers do next. But I want to ask a question before we move on here, which is I want to ask you about purgatory and football purgatory. Because implicit in this whole thing of, you know, look, it's simple. The argument against Tomlin is, you know, again, or sorry, you want to keep them because Mike Tomlin never had a losing season. I understand why you would want to fire Tomlin or Tomlin might want to go because I don't know if you guys know this.

the last time the Steelers won a playoff game, Barack Obama was president. Wild. It was a long time ago. TikTok was not available in America when the last time Tomlin had a like a playoff win. What year was this? So it was like,

January 2017, but Trump had done to have been inaugurated the first time when the Steelers won a playoff game. But you have made the playoffs. You've been competitive. You've never had a losing season. So I understand, Craig, that it's frustrated

didn't be in purgatory and you want to move on. But I want to give you a little bit of a warning from someone who is a Giants fan. You're in purgatory. I'm in hell. I've been in hell. DK jokes, but it's not a joke. I have basically never been rooting for the Giants to win games in December the entire

time he's known me because I want the Giants. The Giants have competed for the number one pick six times in the last eight years. They have not been competitive. The one year they made the playoffs was maybe the worst thing that's happened to them in the last eight years. And so I guess my question. question is, two, do you really want to be out here? Like, do you, do you have any idea? Like, it's in theory. It's nice to be like, Craig. But when you're like, man, to be nice to win Super Bowls, I feel like you're just looking up because you're like, I want out of purgatory

because I'll get to heaven. And my question for you is, are you actually prepared for the potential of the Steelers going to football hell? First of all, the Giants have more playoff wins than the Steelers do in the last 10 years. So I don't know what that tells me. But I feel like people who are currently fans of bad teams like yourself will not accept me being like, yeah, it might be fun to like look for a new quarterback and have a top 10 pick and and care about the offseason. Because as a Steelers fan, usually the off season is just nothing. It's, oh, great. I guess we're going to run it back with Kenny Pickett or Mason Rudolph. Tomlin's not going anywhere. Probably going to win nine games this year. we have the 23rd pick in the draft.

What are we going to do? So naively, I am excited to like, I mean, I think we probably have the 23rd pick in the draft this year. But I'm like, naively, I'm kind of excited to be like, what can we do? Can we hire the next Tomlin? Can we find a 38-year-old coach who's awesome or an offensive mind that's different? And I can see an offense be good for the first time in seven years. This is why I asked because, D.K., how do we break it? Like, it's like the whole meme of how do we tell them?

Everyone's been trying to do it for 20 years and no one's found them. There's like one every three years and you're going to get one of the ones that probably isn't. And it's the Del Curry thing of the don't leave the woman of your dreams. Like you don't want to be out here. Like you don't want to be doing dates with charcoal ice cream. Like you don't want to be out here, man. I agree with you. But like it also feels as though this is a natural.

This is the natural next step for the Steelers. And you got to trust them. Again, three coaches since the moon landing, all of them were good. So I guess I have to try. them to find the fourth. Craig, during the, so, and we'll get to the game game, but during the loss last night, basically like, as you knew it was over, the life was slowly draining out of the Steelers' chances in that game.

Yeah. What was, what was the emotion? Like, because when I, when we were texting, I know, that's what I, this is what I'm getting at, basically, like, you've been in purgatory for so long. I don't even, you just don't, it's like, why, what's the difference between rebuilding and what you have now? I know. I feel like I can't complain.

because it's like, you didn't even really care when they lost because you knew that was going to happen. Like, look, I can't complain against a Jets fan. That's fair. I understand that or a Giants fan or a Browns fan or whatever. However, the Steelers are the weirdest, most frustrating good team the last 10 years. And it's like, far enough. I think you laid out literally the entire story of the season in September. You laid out exactly what was going to happen. You're like, they're going to go nine and eight. They're going to get their asses kicked in the first round. That's like not even a crazy prediction because they do that every year. I know. But it was just funny how accurate it was. I mean, even to the point of week by week, oh, they looked good last week against the lions. They're going to lose this week against the Browns. Oh, they looked bad against the Browns. They're going to beat the Ravens. They're going to lose the Texans.

Like, it is how it works and it's who the Steelers are. So, like, yeah, I'm excited to move on from that. But I understand I'm also, I don't want to become the Jets. So, D.K. nailed it right there. And I something that, so my fiance, Jackie is also a Steelers fan. And we watched the Steelers game last night. Shut up, Muni in D.C. And we watched it at a bar.

and the whole week I was like how do you feel about the game the last two weeks the Ravens she was just kind of like eh and I was kind of like that's weird and I realized but it's exactly what Craig said where they lost and she was upset like she's removed for the team but she's like this is always how it was gonna go

yeah and I think you nailed the DK that like that's actually how a lot of Steelers fans feel like I haven't been Pittsburgh like all the like they're all like fans shouldn't feel so me after a playoff loss like they shouldn't they actually have seen so many one and done so they don't feel anything in more more that's actually a pretty good bar like i had friends texting me like hey man sorry about the loss and i'm like doing like that i'm totally fine and they

probably think i'm coping and like hiding my wounds and i'm like no no this is just how it is i'm tickled that they made the playoffs they didn't even you know what and honestly that is probably the best encapsulation of what why mike talmond had to go is like what's the saying of all mike talmond's sayings the standard is the standard and the steelers standards have lowered because i think Steelers fans don't expect to make a conference championship game anymore. They expect to maybe, maybe eke out a playoff win, but they kind of expect to just lose a playoff game, which the standard got lowered. And it's like, it's not even that they make the playoffs.

It's that they make the playoffs in the dumbest way possible. It's like they win in the most ridiculous grind out, unearned, half of it is lucky. Like, well, CJ Stride in three turnovers last night and they still lost like 25. I mean, that's, that's incredible. So with that said, though, I'm spinning it forward. I think our feelings on how Talman is as a coach will come out very quickly, because here's why. So Tomlin, he was not fired. He's stepping down and look, whether that's saving face and they wanted to move on from

Tomlin, but out of respect. Classy Steelers move. Yeah, it is. Classy Steelers move. Now he's still under contract so we could go to media, whatever. Let's say for a second, forget the contract. Just forget that that's a thing for a moment. And let's say Tomlin just can go work for a, he wants to coach.

The teams who need a coach, I will read the nine. And I'm curious, DECAL story of you, which is, these teams do you think should be the most interested in Mike Tomlin? And going through the Steelers, the Ravens, which would be the owner, did you see Steve Bashati, the owner of the Ravens got

told about this during his press conference? Like it happened during it. And he was like, holy shit. He was like, did somebody like whisper in his ear like the Bush meme? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, a reporter asked him, he's like, really? Is that real? He's like, holy shit. And they were like, would you hire Mike? And he was like, I love Mike. He's like, man,

the Steelers hire John. Just do a little wife swap. Just like a Yankee swap. But yeah, so the Steelers need a coach, obviously, the Ravens are two, the giants, the Raiders, the Titans, the Falcons, the Dolphins, and then the Browns, which is not happening? So, D.K., of those nine, which team do you think should be most interested in Mike Talman? All of them? I think, yeah, I was going to say, actually quite a few of them, because he is, like Craig laid out perfectly, a floor razor, a stabilizer, an adult in the room type of coach. Of course, I said that same thing about Pete Carroll.

But Pete Carroll is 73 years old. Mike Tomlin's 53. Matt LaFleur is 46. Sure, but Pete Carroll has a lot of energy. I don't think that the reason he didn't win in Las Vegas is because he doesn't have enough energy or whatever. It's just like it's the same stuff we talk about. His ideas are the exact same as they were 20 years ago.

I think Tomlin's kind of having the same issue. So I don't really think the age is a big variable. That being said, I still see teams like the Giants, Raiders, Titans, maybe the Cardinals, maybe the Browns. I could see all those franchises being interested in a guy like Tomlin

who is going to... He's not going to the Browns. I think the Giants have to do this. I think the Giants have to do it. The Mara family... Can you imagine? Oh, my God. Rooney Mara, the actress.

Yeah, yeah, of course. What was she? House of cards in the boys? The girl at the dragon tattoo. She's Rudy Merritt because she's literally... House of cards was Kate Mara, but yeah. Shit. Sorry.

Whatever. It's a social network was Rooney Merrick, Dragon Tattooya. Boom. Her name is literally Rooney, Mera, Steelers, Giant. Yes, the point is the family that owns the Steelers and the family that owns the Giants are literally married, like they're married. And they are also by the standards of the NFL

closer than other families, probably. It's like an old like aristocratic. Hyphids, you and Jackie are kind of the modern version of that. Right. There you go. There we go. Rooney Mara Hyphids. But I'm just saying, I kind of think the giants

are going to fall on over themselves to get Tomlin. I said when Harba got fired. more than Harbaugh? Probably just because I got, do you know, my, our coat, dude, yeah, I kind of do. I kind of do. I would love to complain about the things. Craig's complained about Harbaugh.

I just think Harbaugh would go to Miami, probably before the Giants. I think the Giants are a good destination, but I think Tomlin might want what the job. The Giants would crave to have a Mike Tomlin, to have a guy that be there for like a long time. I don't know what Tomlin wants. I won't pretend.

He might want to go to the media and come back. But, dude, if I was Tomlin, I would take a year off, man. Just chill. I know. Just relax. Especially at your age, like, 53 years. years old. Take a year off, chill, do some TV, make a bunch of money. Here's the argument against that. And again, he probably, I think it looked, lining the media deal up, I don't think that means

anything other than obviously he would take a huge check to do it. I don't think that means he won't coach. I think the question becomes, uh, where is he most fit to succeed? And I think he has to have a quarterback. Obviously, everyone does, but he's not going to develop one. And frankly, the people he's hired at offensive coordinator are like pathetic. Like, it's his vision of offense. Like he did well when he Rothesburg was handed to him, but like Jackson dart on the giants. I think of the Raiders, if you believe in Fernando Mendoza, like, Cam Ward on the and the Titans. I think those situations he could make work. I don't like get a little. I mean, the Browns obviously should do that, but he wouldn't do that. But I mean, ironically, the Ravens

would be really funny, but I don't know. There are a lot of unusually good quarterback options. Lamar Jackson, who is a three-time MVP, theoretically still in his prime, is available. I'm not saying the Ravens would go for it. Tom's not going to Raven. No, but the, well, that's the thing. That would be so weird. So here's my thing, though. He's under contract.

So should the Giants, like, I'm biased. D.K., would you, do you think the Giants should give a first round pick for Mike Talman? No. I don't think so either, especially with the one they have. Now, I think Sean Payton ended up getting traded for two seconds. Do you think the Giants should trade two second round picks for Mike Talman? Wait, you're saying he's under contract for one more year? With the Steelers.

So that's the thing. Does that mean? can't coach this year without having a trade? Yes, he has to get traded to coach. Basically, by March, they would have to extend him to pick up the 2027. And obviously, that's not happening. So I think he's just under contract for one more year. But his right.

If he doesn't do, if he does the media thing, they still have his right. Did you already see that? Like, that's been reported that they're not going to let him coach somewhere else. No, they're not. They absolutely. This is the same exact thing that haven't beat Carol. They said we're mutually parting ways. In fact, when Pete Carroll was fired, well, he, I say when he was when they

mutually came to an agreement that he's not going to be the head coach anymore. He was actually, they described that he was going into a different role in the team. And then they just locked him out. Like he just never came back. You know what I mean? Like he was technically supposed to be a part of the franchise. Jerry, they put him in the fake Ocean's 11 box.

So my point is I don't, I don't, maybe there's going to force a trade or whatever. Like, I just think it's silly to talk about a trade. He could go, I think he could go work somewhere else next year. No, but I'm, no, but I'm saying if the, it's very much on. the table because this is yes it could be like the Seahawks where they just let him go but also I think the difference is I don't know if people necessarily were going to trade for Pete Carroll because again he would be the oldest coach in NFL history Mike Tomlin's 53 it would be more like a Sean Peyton situation where it's forgotten but Sean Payton was traded to the Broncos yeah like

like the Saints got second round picks for Sean Payton so but do you think the Steelers could basically just break the contract and allow him to go or do you think they would require a trade I don't know, but that's the thing is it, I think it's one of those, I think it could absolutely be what DK is saying, where the Steelers had of respect, let it happen. The flip side is they could also maybe say, and this is, I think, frankly, probably the most likely option.

Maybe they take a conditional seventh or just, they make it a trade or just wink, wink, but the idea that they're not letting it go to Baltimore. Like, I think the same way that coaches like to trade players in the division, do you think they're going to let Mike Tomlin coach the Ravens? And so part of me is like, they probably won't just let him go free. They'll probably be like, if the Giants, maybe they let him walk and they just let it happen.

And it's like a handshake deal. Right. Not in writing. But I don't think they're going to just blindly let him out of the deal and then let him scour the market. And just for the off chance that he went to Baltimore, I don't think he would do that. But no, I mean, maybe I'm too naive. But I don't, I don't think he would either. I think he's, but also, I don't know.

So it could be one of the things. But that's the thing. I, the Giants and Raiders make the most sense to me. If the Giants could hire them without giving up a pick, I have no problem with that. And even if the Giants said to give up a second round pick, I don't think any second round player is worth not having Mike Tomlin. I know that it's weird.

I don't, frankly, the beggars can't be choosers. And I would love a competent coach like John Harbar and Mike Tomlin flaws and all, because I can't really think of a better option. Where do you guys think now that the Steelers rank among the top choices for a coach? That's a good question. Because we always talk about that. The big thing is quarterback. I think quarterback is still number one priority.

And then harmony between front office, GM is a close second in terms of if you really have your pick of the litter in terms of where you want to go as a coach, you want to have, you want to be basically going to a place where the coach, where the ownership is not going to be like fucking with you. You know what I mean? Or meddling in roster stuff. Same with GM. GM, like who has power in this?

So I think those are the two big things. The Steelers, I assume, will not be giving a new head coach power over the roster. Do you think that's right, Craig? I don't know. To me, it's like the clear top option is Baltimore. You have a three-time MVP. Oh, yeah. You win two-three.

Lamar Jackson. I think the Giants are second. I think the Raiders are probably third if you have the first overall pick. And then I think it's the Steelers. I guess then you have a conversation about like how good you think Cam Ward is. But I think the Steelers are above the Cardinals, above the Dolphins. I probably would say they're above the Falcons. And I think they're right there.

The Steelers have some good pieces. They have organizational stability. They have organizational stability. They are the Pittsburgh Steelers, the legacy of it all. They are like good young pieces that you can build around. Guys like, you know, their center of Zach Bras is really good. The right tackle is good. Derek Harmon's good.

Joey Porter's had a great year. Like there are pieces and stuff like that. Yeah. I mean, they literally have, are they had the most dire quarterback situation in the NFL right now? It's high up there because you have Rogers, you got nothing behind them. They don't have a draft pick to go get a quarterback. And then, I mean, the quarterbacks, you know, you could trade for, you're not going to trade for Tua.

I don't think the Steelers are going to trade for Kyler. At least I at least I don't think they would have in a Tomlin world. They're looking at a, like a gap year. We're looking at like a Mac Jones or Kirk Cousins or, you know, yeah, Kirk Cousins. If he gets cut, like maybe Kirk Cousins, Gino Smith, Joe Flacco. It's not a great market for a quarterback. I think the Steelers, the problem of the Steelers is obviously the quarterback.

and then frankly, the issue is followed up by Tomlin. You don't want to be the guy to follow the guy. And like, that's not a deal. The best... Especially a guy who's so good in a press conference. Like, Mike Tomlin, wherever he goes next, his, like, first meeting with the team. Everyone's going to be running through a wall for him.

Walking the Steelers building and be like, all right, I know that guy was the coolest guy you've ever seen in your life for 20 years, but listen to me now. It's like of a stand-up comic if the opener went after, or the opening act for the band went after the band. It's like, imagine if the Heim sisters went after Taylor Swift. Like, it doesn't matter how good you were. You're not her.

And outside of like the Niners transitioning from like, you know, Bill Walsh to, you know, George Sefer taking over and you just get a dynasty, the best transition you could ask for is like what happened Mike Rable, where you take over the Patriots and you were there. You won rings as a player. Like you're the identity. You have Drake May's an incredible quarterback. You have experience.

But you didn't actually have to follow Belichick. You got to hire Gerard Mayo. You got to follow Gerard Mayo. Like that's the best way. I don't, the pressure of firing Tomlin is huge. none of that takes over like the the legacy of being like chuck knoll bill cow or mike thalman and you like overrides that when they offer you the job of the phone like they're like humans too like any coach candidate your mind goes blank you're like holy crap i can be the head coach of the steelers

but that is most of the allure because if you took that out of it it's not one of the better jobs it's it's a better job because the allure of being the steeler's coach and like knowing that they're not you're not going to be a one and done the steelers are not going to fire a coach or a year or two. Like, they're going to try to give you runway. But it's a hard place to succeed. Like, like, like, you take the Steelersness out of it. I think the Giants are a better job.

Like, I think the Titans are a better job. I think that the guys who have talented quarterbacks have to be better spots. I think that's probably right. Who do you like? Do you have a wish list yet? Have you looked at it? I automatically shift towards like offensive minds just because of what the Steelers have been rolling out for the last.

many years. So like, I don't know. Shefter just, Shefter just tweeted that the last four head coaches that the Steelers have hired were 38 or younger. Well, yeah. That's the time. It's going to be weird. The Steelers, the idea of the Steelers bringing in a coach older than Mike Tomlin, like Kurt Signetti, the coach of Indiana. That, yes, where was, where was he born? Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Um, but I'm like, he's 64 years old. Yeah. That feels kind of weird to bring in him to start the new era of the Steelers.

he's 11 years older than Mike Tomlin. Somebody like Mike McDaniel, because of their offensive play calling ability, like sounds attractive to me. I don't know if I want him to be the leader of the Pittsburgh Steelers. I think that's a weird follow-up to Mike Tomlin. That's more like a music festival.

I went to this festival once, we went to see an EDM act, but the guy before the EDM act was like Sturgle Simpson, like the country singer. And like the crowds mixed and it was like weird. And like, that's Tomlin and Mike McDaniel.

It's like you can't show the same group of people those two guys back to back. Like there is, to me, there is no Liam Cohen, there is no Ben Johnson this year. So I can't tell if I'm leaning towards like maybe they try to get a quote unquote culture guy and then hire a good coordinator, whoever that is. Well, let me spin this on you. Let me, the same question is whether the giant should hire Mike Tomlin because let me ask you guys this. Is it smart or dumb to look at the giants and say, of course I want Mike Tomlin. Like this is easy. Don't overthink it. And then part of me

is like we get competent, but like, I mean, start to go through the actual resume with Tomlin. And you're like, okay, let me see here. Ben Glickman, who, uh, here at the ringer, who is a huge Steelers fan. He wrote a column about Tomlin like in December. The Steelers are 04 and one in their last five games against opponents. We're at least, uh, that were eight games below 500. Eight games below 500. They're, oh, they're winless in the last five games, which is an NFL record. Steelers are one, six and one in their last six eight games in Cleveland, where the Brown's quarterbacks were Terad Taylor, Baker, Mayfield, Jacoby, Rosset, Doran, Thompson, and James Winston and Shudder Sanders.

Like, and you just go through all these Tomlin things. Again, they didn't want to playoff games since Barack Obama was president. Like, you go through all this. And I have a quarter, like, Jackson Dart is the guy. And Mike Tomlin has hired Matt Canada and like, like basically punted on modern passing games. And should the Giants actually hire a Mike McDaniel who clearly maximize Tua? And I know Mike, but part of me is like a little worried that Mike McDaniel will wilt under the pressure and wilt under the lights in the New York Post is going to make fun of him.

and like that will be affect him. And whereas Tomlin is going to be like instantly respected in content, it'll be fun. But part of me is also like, is it obviously better to get an offensive guy for Jackson's art? And like, is it weird to like just basically, Steelers leftovers is rude,

but is it weird to basically say the game has passed this guy by? He's been there too long, but we'll take him because we have no interest in the future of the game. Like, isn't that a weird thing to kind of invite for the future of your team? How much do you trust that the judge? Giants front office. Zero. Okay.

I was going to say like, I think bringing in Tomlin would easily handle New York, would immediately come in and motivate everybody in the team. The floor would be raised immediately. But Joe Shane and the Maras would have to like convince Tomlin or bring in a guy who they think is the right play caller because you can't trust Tomlin to do that. And how would that relationship work? Who do you trust to win that argument? Who gets to say this is our coordinator?

It's the Siriani Eagles thing. like who was the one saying, all right, yeah, we're actually going to go get the guy who was with Liam Cohen and Jacksonville this year. He's going to come in and be our play caller. Do you like, can Shane and the mayor's do that if Tom one's the head coach? I don't think you could pitch him on that and get he would get the job. I think he would, I mean, Tom would, right. I mean, what do you think, D.K.? I mean, I don't know.

My lean, and this is like kind of going in the other direction on a tangent, but my lean is he's just not going to coach this year. So it's kind of moot. But if he really is motivated to. coach this year, he might not have as much leverage on getting full control over everything. You know what I mean? Or to get full control, he would have to go to a worse situation. Right.

Exactly. That's what that's kind of, that's what I'm saying like, like the Cardinals might be like, we'll give you anything you want. You can own Phoenix. And he's like, I don't want to work for the car. And it's weird. Like the Falcons have a consulting firm. They just hired, like the Falcons have a consulting firm.

They just hired. But like they also just hired Matt Ryan as the president of football apps. Matt Ryan is obviously going to be younger than Mike Tom. And so he's going to be in control. The Titans have this guy, Chad Brinker who, like, for whatever reason, just just like runs that team, which is a whole other thing. But I don't know. I don't.

And again, you're right. Maybe DK, you're right that Tomlin isn't going to coach this year. I mean, in that case, I mean, if Tomlin didn't coach this year and the Giants don't get John Harbaugh, then I'm suddenly like, if John Harbaugh, like, that one's like there's nine openings and all these teams are firing coaches. You're like, if Tomlin doesn't coach, then you're like, so the best candidates are what, John Harbaugh, Kevin's DeFansky and Mike McDaniel, and then. six other jobs Jesse Minter Chris Shula Jeff Haffley some of these younger

defensive guys come and coordinators the short version is all the offensive coaches that just got head coaching jobs this is the wave of defensive coordinators that caught up on offense and now they get to interview for jobs and then which one of these are those three names are who I think the Steelers are gonna look at because Shula's 39 mentor I believe is 42 so like younger guys Heffley is 40 what is halfley he's like he's a young he's a older he's 40 Anthony Campaniel in Jacksonville. I think the Chris Shula, I got to say,

this doesn't happen to me very much, but I read a coach interview thing and my jaw dropped. Chris Shul interviewed for the Miami Dolphins job, which is incredible because his grandfather's Don Shula. Yeah. And like the most winning coach in the Institute of NFL. Cilers are going to like that probably. I know, the pedigree.

Like, yeah. You look at what the Rams did. The name power. I know the, you could look at it service. They like the Rams, almost the Lust of the Panthers and the playoffs. The Rams defense of what Chris Sheila has done

with the rims defense where they are so out of cornerback talent. They're playing Emmanuel Forbes who was like released by Washington. Washington released a first round pick because it was such a bad choice because he's so small. He's like the smallest player. He's probably the last sub 170 pound defensive player we might see drafted at his frame. We called him flat Stanley. He's like playing for the Rams and he's getting something out of him.

This is what they do. Yeah. And they've got they've done this for a little bit here where they find these random guys. they've been really good at integrating the draft into like their roster and utilizing those guys in the right ways is exactly what you want from the top down in terms of like marrying the scouting process with getting these guys on the field. It's been really incredible. Chris Shula is also just like Sean McVeigh's buddy. Like they went to college together. They've been friends since like 2004. So it's like a little bit of like, man, McVeigh just hired his friend and it's going really well right now.

And I've, you know, he's been, he's been on the ramps for like seven, eight years now, Chris Shula. They're out of offensive guys that Sean McVey knows. So now we're just doing defensive guys that Sean McVey knows. He's literally anyone Sean McVey knows. Craig, are you getting any calls? Should I text Sean and be like, hey, where's Chris going? Yeah, yeah. You should text him when he takes a different job and be like, hey, I heard you hire your friends.

Can I be the defensive coordinator? Yeah. Or actually, no, you say, hey, interviewing for the Steelers head coach job, can I say that I'm Sean McFey's friend? That's what you've got to do. Do you think Tomlin will do a podcast with the ringer? That'd be sweet. They'd be funny if we had this fucking whole conversation and then like he just does a show on Netflix.

I mean, it's not possible. I have no insider information on that. He's been on a ringer pod before. Anything else on Tomlin before we move on? I'm just excited for Craig. I'll see you in Carl, Hall of brother. Mike Tomlin, thank you for your service.

While this was all happening, the Eagles fired Kevin Petullo, their offensive coordinator, which is so funny. They just news dump. They were like, Thomas out, like, let's let's let everyone out now. Yeah, I respect it. Half of Pennsylvania is distracted, like move, move, move, move.

Throw out all this shit. Hurry. Yeah, we knew this was going to, we knew this was coming. There was nothing to say, like the Eagles are an abomination and Nick Seriani should not be allowed to hire his coordinators. He's a baseball manager and they should just tell him who is on his staff and then he's in charge of vibes. So quickly, how attractive is the Eagles job for a coordinator position?

Let's say AJ Brown's may be gone. the offensive line is in a different situation. You have Sequin, who's still at the end of his prime. You have Jalen Hertz, who's this kind of quagmire situation. Would you say right now the Eagles are the top coordinator landing spot for any team in the NFL, for any coach in the NFL? I don't know about top, but it's up there. I mean, look at what Kellynne Moore did.

I mean, the last two guys who had the job before Kevin Petullo got head coaching jobs. I think it is. Super Bowl. So part of me, especially you look at the defense. You're like, frankly, the bar's pretty low to succeed there. You have literally, like, Jalen Hertz is obviously the limit. Sorry, Eagles fans, but Hertz is the limiting factor in terms of what you can run and execute.

Yeah. But you have Sequin Berkeley, A.J. Brown, if he ends up staying, which, I mean, I think that it can calm down if you change, you hire a new coach, and we'll see what happens there. You have an incredible offensive line. You have a great incredible infrastructure there. You have an amazing defense.

Dude, if Mike McDaniel goes to Philly, we're all through. You keep saying this, and everyone keeps saying as a coordinator, do you, serious, do you think nine head coaches will be hired and Mike McDaniel? DK, do you think Mike McDaniel is actually not going to get one of the nine head coaching jobs? Well, it's eight because one of them is Miami. Oh, yeah, fair. Yeah, I think it's possible.

There's a lot of good candidates right now, or at least interesting candidates. I think it is really just a personality point of view. That's a big question. Like, we said this when he was hired by the Dolphins. He's like very awkward. And like the call with Tua from the airplane and all that stuff is just like, oh, God, I can't even watch this. I think when you get fired like that, teams are going to be a little bit careful about like, okay, what kind of personality does this guy have?

We like his, we like his schematics and his play calling. But is he going to? I personally think he had the team playing pretty hard right before the season ended. So that was like a good sign, especially after benching to a. But I would say there's some doubt there that teams will see him as a head coach type of guy. I am genuinely worried that the Giants won't hire him. because they're going to worry about him with the media. Meanwhile, I just think that he would be the best coach for Jackson's art.

And if they can't get Tomlin or Harbaugh. I feel like you have said you want Tomlin, Harbaugh, and McDaniel. Which is it? I said all that because I said I wanted Mike McDaniel. Then John Harbaugh get fucking fired. And then I said I wanted John Harbaugh. And then Mike Tomlin got fucking fired fired fired fired. Rank him right now.

You can pick. If I can pick, I want, man, there's no way I am. Get off the fence, pal. No, I see, this is easy. I want Mike Tom. Tomlin, man. I want Mike Tomlin and like there's a world where I look back and Mike McDaniel goes to Tennessee and they just are incredible Kim Ward and I regret not having Mike McDaniel. But I got to tell you my life would get so much better so quickly if Mike Tomlin was the coach of the Giants that I just I do want to go from hell to purgatory and I would love 10 years of not of making the playoffs and losing anything. Anything like nine and eight wildcard appearances and that we lose one and done. I would love that. Tomlin first. I am not. in position to turn down John Harbaugh. And then I would actually rather have Mike McDaniel.

Have you seen me? I've not in any position to turn him down. Beggers can't be choosers, dude. If it turns out that John Harbaugh is not able to succeed outside the Ravens infrastructure, then like the Giants, we can hard layering that the hard way. Then I would take, I would take Mike McDaniel. I think that what he did in Miami is underrated. I think that I think there is more innovation from him.

It's not a one-trick pony where it's like, look, get all the fast people. I think the quarterback was a limited point goal. with a noodle arm and a lot of injuries, hip ankle injuries, it limit his arm strength. I don't have to explain to it of people. The offensive line sucked. I think Mike McDaniel maximized that thing,

and I think Mike McDaniel could do crazy stuff with neighbors in Jackson Dart. And then I would take Kevin Stafansky. I'm fine with that. Or Chris Chula. I actually like Chris Chula, if I, not a former head coach, Chris Shula is the candidate

and like Jeff Haffley, if all those guys went elsewhere. All right. Well, you're probably going to get one of those five. I would like to think so. Craig, you asked, You asked what's the best offensive coordinator job right now. I was just looking through the list.

And I might have missed a one because I think the commanders hired a guy just from internal. So getting to work with Jane Daniels that I think that would be really attractive to a lot of offensive play callers. The other two here that are really, really, really interesting are the Lions who don't have an offensive coordinator right now. And the Chargers who just fired Greg Roman getting to work with Justin Herbert. So I think there's actually quite a, there's a handful of teams here with extremely, you know, if you're, if you're an offensive play caller type guy trying to rise in the ranks, like these guys could be the meal ticket to head coaching job. You know what I mean? Getting to play with these coaches or these quarterbacks is, is huge. If you want to skate to where the puck is heading, you would take the charges job. Because like, obviously the Eagles job, it's like you can clear it. But you're at the end of the day, you are limited by what Jalen Hertz does. Justin Herbert is actually the Mr. Unlimited, like the Russell Wilson. and freaking nickname. He's going to get someone hired as a head coach, right? The chargers need to throw as much money as possible at Mike McDaniel.

And if you have Harbonne McDaniel running Justin Herbert in the charges, it would be unbelievable because the thing is Greg Roman, it's under like I, the whole thing. Oh, I went to Ravens Camp and like I asked Greg Roman to describe this is back when, I know, right. Yeah, flex. He, I can't keep track of what level of hair Greg Roman was at the time. It's fluctuated over the years.

but he I asked him like to describe the word the his offense in one word it was like kids day so it's like how did you explain it all the kids and he was like you're just in that group of kids yeah well they were like you're not an adult you can't go with all the adult reporters he was just hanging out with the big guy nice it was big child Madison just sitting like cross-legged in a circle around the coach sorry go ahead no closer than you think like like heavy or or Billy Madison asking Miss Lippia question. Yeah. You, the tall one.

I was like one word and he was like, the offense is medieval. And that is a different era with the Ravens, bully ball with Lamar. But like the last year with the charges, 2023, like it still was medieval. Like they were trying to run the ball. Like this was the first year Greg Roman, offenses had modern passing concepts and like trying and running, throwing on first down. But like, if you tick Herbert with like what Mike McDaniels done or one of the Kubiaks or just any of these offenses where like Helen Moore, like all these guys that are getting production

and a Shuck and everything, the charges with healthier offensive line and able to do stuff, I think that is like, that is the higher ceiling. It's going to be exciting because they're going to have a more healthy offensive line in theory, although they are cursed, so who knows. And then you get, you know, better run game in theory with Amarion Hampton being healthy coming back next year. Well, it's just a question of like, what would you rather do? Take a job with the Cardinals as a head coach.

if you're Mike McDaniel, and you get a head coaching job. And that's the ultimate goal right to be a head coach. Or... It's a lot more money. Yes. Or you go to the Chargers and you have one or two awesome seasons

with the Chargers and then you have a bit more freedom and flexibility in terms of where you could go next, where you could then kind of be a Ben Johnson type where you're turning down teams and turning planes around rather than I'm going to take what I can get in whatever, Tennessee or Arizona or Cleveland. Depends on the guy. Like what kind of person you are.

I personally, yeah, I mean, obviously. When I'm not looking at the money, I'm like, go to the Chargers, be a coordinator. No one's ever offered me like $20 million, so I don't know. But like, I think the more logical move for McDaniel rather than taking the Cardinals job would be to go do, like, be an offensive coordinator for a couple of years, do that route. Be the, be the bell of the ball in the coaching cycle in two years. He'd be great in L.A. Man, that would be a lot of fun.

Sure. Yeah. I just, he's, why would you the Titans not hire him? that's the thing. It's like, yeah, cool. It's easy to say Mike McDaniel should run the charges. I'm like, the Titans should have Mike McDaniel play with Cam Ward or coach with Cam Ward.

I'm like, the idea that nine coaches are going to let him go. Have you seen the guys that they've interviewed, though? A bunch of old school guys. Yeah. You're maybe right. Maybe I'm like, Jason Garrett. They interviewed Arthur Smith. Didn't they interview Jason Garrett?

Oh, my God. I forgot the Garrett. You're probably right that I'm underrating how much the being in the room factor where just people don't, people think he's weird and cannot command their respect of very large men. Just yeah. Yeah, you're probably right. And they've interviewed Jason Garrett, like McCarthy.

It just, I don't know, maybe they're just doing that as a red herring or whatever. But it feels like the Titans are going for like an old school, you know, one of those guys. All right. So since Craig made me do that before we get out of here, Craig, I'm making you do it. Who are the head coaches you want? Do you want John Harbaugh if he wanted the job through back channels? No. I don't want the Ravens coach.

Just like I don't want LeBron on the Warriors. I just won't do it. I don't want John Harbaugh. I'm not going to. down like that. Um, answer. Uh,

of who's available? I kind of want, I kind of want Mike McDaniel. What's your heart say? Yeah. Oh, Mike McDaniel. Can't have Tomlin. I don't want Harbaugh.

After that, I guess Kevin's DeFancy, I don't want him either. I don't want a division guy. Mentor would be cool. Yeah. Yeah. The,

the mentor Shula, 38 year old defensive coordinator guru is okay. I, that's, that's fine. And I would be happy with that. but for something about getting somebody who is truly at the cutting edge of offensive play calling feels nice and refreshing yeah i'm thinking i'm excited for you guys monday night for the steward yeah

yeah i'm thinking back to the seahawks two years ago when my two chop choices and it was actually like pretty legit possibility for both of these guys it came down to mike mcdonald and ben johnson and i was like i really wanted ben johnson and then i mean it worked out great for the seahawks but hopefully you guys will land somebody cool and it'll be a new era for both of your team. If this person's over 50 years old, I'm going to be upset. Well, history would tell us he's not going to be. Yeah. So that's interesting.

All three examples going back to 1969. Yeah. Okay. I think that's all we got. You guys want to do like just a couple emails and get out of here? Sure. All right. So we're going to have, and again, we'll have a preview episode this week and we're

going to do, we're still in three episodes a week during the playoffs. So we're recapping, you know, Sunday night, I guess early Monday morning, all the playoff games, everything, even after the Super Bowl, we're going to have two episodes a week leading up to the draft, trades, free agency. The draft, Dekers are a draft expert here. We're going to have a draft guide and everything and talk about players off seasons, all this stuff, talk about all nine openings when they get hired. And then we still do an episode a week during after the draft all summer. So if you're whatever you're listening to us are watching us, please stick with us. And yeah, with that said, I have an email here. So we were talking on Sunday about also thank you to everyone.

emailed in. There were awesome emails, ringer fantasy football at gmail.com. Thank you if you're watching us on Netflix. And I don't know if you guys heard, but Trey Young got traded with the Wizards. Yeah. Anyone who, you know, wanted to check us out on Netflix, you may have seen that. It was big news. It was huge news. Yeah. D.K., did you know that?

I heard about it, yeah. I don't really know anything. Did you know what team Trey Young got traded to the Wizards from? No. It's all right. That's why Howard and Logan had to talk about it. Who? The Hawks. The Hawks.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That sounds right. No, if you're going to forget a protein, that's fine. That's even the Hawks fans. They're like, yeah, yeah. No, but thank you to everyone who went to Netflix and saw a basketball show and then, like, came back and watched the real one. So thank you. That's up now.

On Sunday's episode, we talked about all the side effects of drug commercials. Yeah. The bleeding between the anus and, what was it? The genitals. The bleeding taint. The bleeding taint. There was no grundle. talk again i'm i'm unsure how one can bleed from that

why do you want don't ask questions you don't want the answer to uh anyway so a lot of a lot of emails about the drugs but i wanted to shout out this is an email censored by ryan our and this could not be more perfect right now because craig also watched lord of the rings over the holidays he'd never seen lord of the rings that episode's on netflix right you can hear us talk about lord of the rangers yes friday that was fun the back half of the friday week 18 preview was krague admitted to us that he watch Lord of the Rays. I surprised.

I regaled you. Fair. What are you talking about? That's the most fun I've had in years. It was great. So, by the way, I wanted to apologize.

I got the, I think I said raising of the shire. We were talking about the last chapter of the book and like how they left it out of the movie. It's the scouring of the shire. Right, right, right. I didn't want to say anything. That's so embarrassing.

That was embarrassing for me. So anyway, Ryan sent us an email. There's a website called antidepressant or Tolkien. dot com and it's is it a Tolkien jr r Tolkien character or an antidepressant hell yeah oh this is fun dk this is our corner i'm leaning on you dk i'm going to play it should i share my screen or should i just read it to you just read it all right first dude this is so funny all right the first one here antidepressant or lord of the rings character leuvox l uvox l uvoks lvaux i feel like there's a lot of x in in

Pharmacicative drugs. I think it's a drug. I think it's a drug. Okay, we say antidepressant. We're correct. Bang. Yeah. Okay, next one here is Cletyol and there's an accent over the E.

That's gotta be Lord of the Rings, right? They're not throwing an accent on a pharmaceutical drug. No, no way. I would not think, yeah. Oh, nope, that's wrong. Okay. What? Metafoxamine previously sold under the brand name Cletyol and gerdaxyl.

Was an accent? They're throwing accents on drugs? Yeah. Man, well, it must be big in Latin America. It's in France and Spain. Oh, okay. Symbalta. That's a drug.

That's a drug. That's a drug. I've heard that drug before. All right. I take that all the time when I want to get a little crazy. Burghiel. Lord of the Rings. That's got a total of the rings.

By the way, is it, is it Tolkien or just Tolkien? I don't know. I've never known. I've gotten this foreign life. I lean Tolkien. Tolkien.

Tolkien. It's like how. I hope we get destroyed for it. I don't know. Is J.R. Tolkien? Tolkien Tolkien Just to like token with an L Tolkien

You know what the J.RR stands for John Rick Randy Tolkien It's not J.R. Is it J.RRR? Yes J.R's two R's. So there's George RR Martin and J.RRR Tolkien? I actually never thought about that. Is it J.R.R. It's John Ronald Ruel Tolkien. R R R R R Martin?

I think that he was like A lot shrifting on that. Oh, is it? I never thought about that, but probably. George Raymond Richard Martin. Maybe they just had J.R.R. names. It's kind of U.R. Antidepressants or Tolkien.

Narmusil. Gotta be a drug. I think that sounds like a name. Tolkien. I'm going Tolkien, too. We're correct. The 17th King of Gondor. Of course.

Of course. Amantadine. Drug. Drug. They all sound like drugs to me. That's correct. We're doing pretty great. Finer,

Finer Finn or Finn. That's a, that's a J.R. Tolkien guy. Okay. All right. We're kind of nailing it. Deseril.

Another king of Gondor. No, that's a drug. Oh. I got a shout out Ryan because these are really good suggestions. Yeah. Desirel.

This is antidepressants or Tolkien.orgian. It's actually a website. Someone made. There is. I made that. Des. The comment. side effects, dry mouth, feeling, fate, vomiting, and headache for Desirel.

Celebrion. It's like Celibrian. Calabrian. Calabrian. Colabrian. Colabrian. Tolkien. There's an accent on the eye. Yeah.

Tolkien. Tolkien. Okay. That's right. She was the wife of Elrond. Escalith. Greg, can you remember Elron from the movie? Just from Scientology.

No. God damn it. Oh, my God. I, okay. wait uh el rand was hugo weaving remember from the movies gregg who hugo weaving remind me the guy you know uh he's in like um he's he's he's the in the matrix he's the bad guy in the matrix he's the bad of the matrix he's an elf he's an elf he's like the keel loss his dad or something no oh the guy's he's arwin's dad dude you know what blew my mind is i didn't realize until after watching

Lord of the Rings, the guy who plays Gimley is the same guy who plays Sala in Indiana Jones. John Reese Davies. I did not realize that was the same person. Wow. Which guy in Indiana Jones? He plays he plays Sala in Indiana Jones. That happens to be at the time when I realized an an actor is British. Like I think I know now this is like super well known, but at the time in the wire Idriselible is not like that well known. And when like there was a point, learning that Idriselible was British was fucking mindling. All these actors in the wire are British

and have these specific Baltimore accents. Like when Game of Thrones happened, Littlefinger was British, I couldn't fucking believe it. Craig, by the way, he also, this is what I thought. He also voiced tree beard, the main end, the big tree.

Gimley was tree beard? Yeah. Oh. The same actor, dude. John Reese Davies? Dude, I love trees. I was going to say Succession is another show where I, like, everyone in it,

like Matthew McFaddy in his term, Tom Wamsgans. The second I heard him have a British action, I was blown away. Brian Cox, who plays the dad, is Scottish. Shivroy, Australian. All of them have the most crazy accents. Why are you so much better at this?

It says here, John Reese Davies voiced was the original voice of Man Ray and SpongeBob SquarePants. Wow. I don't know what that means. Man Ray? Yeah. Was John Reese Davies? That's wild. According to this, yeah.

Whoa. It was recast. He didn't do it for the whole time. Well, so the original Man Ray was John. John Rees Davies? Wow. That's like top five SpongeBob episode. Drawing a line between Indiana Jones and SpongeBob for Craig is about as good as a good.

The orb of confusion, D.K., are you even familiar with that? I'm not. Craig watch Lord of the Rings. I think DK's going to watch some SpongeBob now. I think that's the deal. You have a six-year-old kid. I'll give you a five SpongeBob episode you can watch with him. Yeah, make your kid dumb.

Do I want him to be watching SpongeBob? Yes. Spongub is very smart. Okay. Maybe I finally would understand all the memes. All right. Thank you, TK. Thank you, Craig. Thank you, Cam. Thank you, Carlos. Thank you, Kai. Thank you, Austin. Thank you for listening. Thank you, Mike, 19 seasons. Oh, I'm gonna miss you, buddy. Take the Giants job, Mike.

Fox Sports and CBS. Do a TV for a year? Live it up. You'll always be there. Go to the, do you actually not want him to go to the Giants? I would like to see him take a year off so I can kind of just hang out with him on television. Yeah, yeah. I'd like to hang out with him as the coach of the New York Giants. You're going to produce his new podcast. That's right. Mike Thomas, you can come work, you know, fantasy football show. Maybe he'll join.

Okay. Yeah. Thank you, Lord. Lord. Thank you, Olivia Dean. Yeah. So nice. All right.

Tell me what you guys think. I think the NFL stole my tweet about her. I know. That was weird. We had the same. Not that it was like the most creative comment, but I literally put on our Instagram, Breeze Hall, the Jets running back tweeted, Olivia Dean, or Olivia Dean album is great or whatever.

and so I put that on our Instagram and said Breece Hall knows ball and then 20 minutes later the NFL account said Breeze Hall knows ball and posted the Olivia theme Conspiracy She's great D-Kare you familiar with her work I'm not really familiar

I mean I bet you I'd recognize it But off the top of my head I don't know She's phenomenal What's like one of her songs Man I Need is heard the big one Sing it Don't be the man I need I want it.

I kind of like it when you call me wonderful. She makes, I mean this in the most complimentary way possible, she makes music that sounds like it's like would be the best montage played under like a really good montage in a rom-com. Like it's just like when Harry met Sally

music or so, I don't know. It just makes you feel good. She's very fall winter. Like she's really like November, December music, which I can't explain. I think she got a little, um, she lost a little

not Luster's the wrong word, but she got, I think Spotify Rapt only goes to like December 1st or December 5th or something. And I think she's a big like December January artist. Sure, yeah. But yeah, man, I need so easy, nice to each other. Sure, yeah, like our guy, Ghibie. D.K., I think you'd really like Olivia Dean. It's hard not to. It's like such easy, fun listening. Right. She's good. I'll check it out. I hope she wins

best new artist at the Grammys. Yeah, she's phenomenal. Olivia Dean, if you play fantasy football, you can come on the show. whatever you want. Whenever you want. We'll boot Mike Tomlin for you. Yeah. Dude, can't see my mirrors. Then I can't see you.

My windshield is bigger than my rear view. Goat. Kenny's Super Forks. Goodbye, everyone.