The Ringer NFL Show - NFL Combine Winners and Losers, Lions Trade Montgomery, Tales From Indy, and Pie for Breakfast

Episode Date: March 3, 2026

The guys recap a ridiculous NFL combine, from record-breaking 40 times and absurd vertical jumps to the prospects who may have changed their draft stock the most. They break down remarkable athletes, tight end chaos, Ohio State's dominance, and why this year’s speed explosion has everyone rethinking what matters in draft season. (00:00) Intro (01:22) News (16:05) NFL combine winners and losers (01:26:48) Tales from Indy Discord link: https://discord.gg/Ge8bbYHrau Check out The Ringer’s 2026 NFL Draft Guide: https://theringer.com/nfl-draft/2026/big-board#content Email us! [e-mail] Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Producers: Austin Gayle, Abou Kamara, Carlos Chiriboga, and Cameron Dinwiddie Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer NFL Draft Show. My name is Danny Hyphen, and I'm joined by Danny, Kelly, and Craig Warlbeck, and the NFL Combine is over. We are going to break down the winners and losers and failures of objective reality to measure how fast these guys were in. And everything else, we were in Indianapolis for a week,

so now we're back. All the drills are done, all the little playing catch at each other. D.Ks, you always say. They're playing catch. They're running really fast in their shorts. That's one of my all-time favorite videos. They're going out there and they're playing catch.

I dug that up for my phone the other day and I was re-watching it. Lovingly. It was great. So basically I was just really complaining that when we talk about pro days mattering, they're quite literally just going out there and tossing around the old pigskin. They're just playing some catch. No pads, no helmets, no defenders. Yeah. You can just watch the tape of playing in real games against SEC opponents or you could watch them play catch. Let's make judgments of who's going to be good by playing catch, you know? That's all I'm saying. It's incredible. So we're going to go through the combat win, losers. There were a lot of guys who ran fast. jumped very high. So we're going to go through all that. But first, there is news. The Detroit Lions traded running back David Montgomery to the Houston Texans after a scuffle butt.

I don't know the word. Scuttle butt? Disagreements over what the trade was. I don't know why it was wrong. We have theories, but we'll keep them to ourselves. But the Texans traded a fourth round or seventh rounder and their center, juice scrugs to the lions. What a name.

Juice. Dude. Juice Scrugs. It's a second round pick, Juice Scruggs. It's up there. Yeah. I didn't he's on the guys who weren't good enough for their name like juice really didn't have the best o-linman name he might he's a tie juice is very high but good not enough juice that he was actually able to stick at center for the for the Texans so yeah David Montgomery said Houston the Lions got rid of him I don't know D.K what is your first thought for all this is it Houston is it Lions is it fantasy jimier Gibbs I mean yeah it's rocket ship Jemir Gibbs for starters I think obviously we already knew he was going to be a really good player but when you look at some of the splits where and David Montgomery is not playing.

It's pretty incredible. I think he averages. I think Jemir Gibbs averages like 25 points a game. So the ceiling is absolutely astronomical with Gibbs going forward now. I don't know who the RB2 on the Lions is even going to be at this point. I pulled up some of the guys. Tell me if you've heard of these guys. Jacob Say, sailors would be, I guess, the RB2 according to our lads.

Cone Vaki and Kyle Robichow. Thoughts on all those three as the RB2 for the Lions. Sione Vaki also like plays defense. Right. He's like a linebacker, a special teamer. Anyway, yeah, this is great for Gibbs. I think it's also good for David Montgomery. My impression on this is that the Texans, I mean, they're giving up three pieces for this,

two picks and a player to bring in a running back. I see this as he's like replacing, you know, what they thought Joe Mixon was going to be, the foundational type back. I think Woody Marks is going to be sort of a complimentary piece. I don't think they saw enough from him as a pure runner. Plus, he was hurt. It felt like every week. So I think this is huge for David Montgomery

and fantasy certainly. Yeah. I mean, I think Gibbs already could have been the first pick in fantasy drafts, even if David Montgomery was in the lion. So I think he definitely is now or should be probably the front runner.

And then I feel like Montgomery, I like Woody Marks. I think Woody Marks is kind of good and was pretty impressive for a late round rookie last year. And I kind of feel like they're just going to do the same thing. It's going to be like their own version of Gibbs in Montgomery. Montgomery is going to be the bruiser

and Woody Marks is going to be the complimentary piece. But I kind of like this. I think this is like, I'm happy for David Montgomery to have more of a, like a pronounced role. It was shrinking. Last year, I feel like we really saw Gibbs kind of take over. So for fantasy, I think this is, yeah, I think this is good for Montgomery. It's sad to me because I always thought David Montgomery kind of embodied on offense, that era of the lions, where he was just tough.

He just had the attitude and everything that I think the Dan Campbell Lions represented. And this, that was incredible. So this was from NFL research, which is just, uh, Jumeer Gibbs. and David Montgomery both scored a touchdown in 14 different games, which is the NFL record for two teammates. And they broke the record by Emmett Smith and Daryl Johnson on the Cowboys,

but Daryl Johnson and Emmett Smith had seven more seasons as teammates. They did it in 10 years. David Montgomery and Jr. Games had 14 games where they scored a touchdown at three years. So it really was one of the more productive backfields in the history of the league as like both, like how many times have we said split backfields,

guys, they really both got like a crazy amount of production. and volume and everything. But also, I just love David Montgomery having the career renaissance where he's just like a fun player to watch. He was like him in Chicago and him in Detroit were two different people. The Lions are a weird team because we might look back 10 years from now and discuss like how dominant that team was for like two to three seasons and nothing ever materialized

from it. Like I'm not sure which direction the team's going in. I hope they hold on. I think the team is super fun and I hope they can like have another shot to make a Super Bowl. but it is weird how good they were for those two seats. They were incredible and probably should have been in the Super Bowl for how dominant they were offensively. And it's kind of sad that that might be over quickly.

Yeah, the stars aligned for them in a lot of ways. Think about their offensive line. Ben Johnson coming up and emerging as one of the best play callers, the resurrection of Jared Goff, all the things did kind of align for them to be this smash-mouth team that scored a ton of touchdowns. Craig, I'll never forget. Just hit Craig texting on Sundays.

As soon as the Lions get anywhere near the end zone, this is Craig Horlebeck, manager of Jared Goff quarterback for fantasy. And just ever again. Just absolutely melting down because he's like, oh, it's going to be another fucking rushing touchdown. They would legitimately have like five rushing touchdowns in a single game as they beat the commanders 42 to 7.

I'm like, God. This team is so dominant. That lines are, I really do think that last three or four years, the Lions, like would it could have should a Hall fame. Like one of my favorite teams to watch that didn't make a Super Bowl. It might be one of the best offenses I've ever seen that won't make the Super that have never been the Super Bowl.

I think the, yeah, the Ravens a couple years ago were up there, the Saints and that should have made the Super Bowl over the Rams. But I love them. I will say, I think it makes sense for the Lions. I mean, it's a good return. If you're a Texans fan, you're saying, well, David Montgomery is only 28. If you're a Lions fan, you're saying David Montgomery, about to be 29 in June. But I do think it makes sense.

They need a center. They had, if you remember Christmas Day, the Lions were starting. in Kingsley, Gwakan at center, and frankly, it cost them the entire game versus the Vikings. And a fourth rounder and a center to maybe if juice Scrugs plays center for them, the line's desperately needed center

ever since Frank Ragner retired. I think it makes sense for them. The Texans, I think David Montgomery and Woody Marks, like I think that makes sense together as a backfield. I agree with you guys on that. It is funny, I do think overall, I think if you look at Houston,

Houston's saying that the defense is obviously a Super Bowl caliber team. Like, I mean, Kyle Shannon said the day of the Super Bowl, the two best defenses that were good enough to win a Super Bowl on their own, as long as the offense didn't screw up with Seattle and Houston. And they're the best defense in each conference. C.G. Stroud screwed up in the playoffs and Sam Donald didn't. And so that's fine. The receivers are awesome. Nico Collins and the three Iowa State guys like Jade Higgins and Jalen O'Las and is the second round pick, a third rounder, Xavier Hutchinson. Now they have David Montgomery and Woody Marks. Even the kicker,

Kamee Farberman's good in Houston. Nick Casera, the GM said that replacing C.G. Stroud would be moronic. So he's not going anywhere. The last thing here is the offensive line for Houston, Siddiqua, you'd think that Houston would be acquiring offensive linemen, right? Right. It's been kind of their Achilles Hill is the protection issues and the run game issues. But for some reason, they keep trading away their offensive linemen. Just giving them away. Just fire sale. It reminds me of, I don't know, it's just kind of bizarre because there's obviously such an important need for them, but they keep trading away and they traded away Titus Howard today

to Cleveland for a fifth rounder. The full list just really quick. They gave way juice scrugs in this in this trade. he was a second round pick a couple years ago. Titus Howard, who was a first round pick for them in 2019, they traded for a fifth rounder today instead of paying him $18 million. He can play every spot but center. They traded Jeremy Tunsell for a couple of picks

or like they netted three picks last year. And then they traded Kenyon Green last year, who was a first rounder for them in 2022. So they've traded four linemen over a long period, but they've traded four linemen that were first or second round picks in like 11 months. You know what I'd like to wager some money

that the Texans first round pick this year, will be an offensive. That's a good call. You know what it kind of reminds me of is when I bought my house, like back in 2017, we were like, oh, we'll just do some cosmetic changes to it. And we needed to make some upgrades to the kitchen because it was from like the 1950s. And then you start taking down the walls and you're like, fuck, we need to just take everything down and restart from scratch. The deeper you look, the worse it gets. There's like sort of that old maximum is like you don't want to take the walls out in your house because then you start to find what's back there. But it is. It was like a situation where it was like, oh, we took one wall down there.

like, fuck, we got to take everything out. You don't want to look under the couch because then you've got to clean what's under the couch. Exactly. Pick up the cushions to look for something. You're like, gee, look, put that away. Yeah, they're just doing, they're taking the offensive line down to studs and starting from scratch. Maybe it'll be better. Maybe it won't.

Who knows. You say that as a joke. Probably can't be worse. I mean, their offensive line has been terrible for so long. You say that as a joke, but Andrew Barry, who's the GM for the Brown, said at the combine that he thought what the Bears did is the model for the offensive line, which is, like, just, just do the whole thing in one year. They had the tackles.

or they really replaced four offensive linemen for Chicago last year. Andrew Barry for the Browns was saying that's the idea. Houston's kind of probably looking at the same thing. They kind of also probably filling themselves because they got Aaron Tayersery from Houston last year. It's the second rounder to just start 17 games at left. I think it was left tackle for Houston, which that doesn't usually work or rookie left tackle in the second round to just play the whole year. But that worked out pretty well for them.

So I think that's what Houston's thinking. But yeah, they're just like kind of cashing in. You know, you can trade in the new iPhones for the old iPhones. you get a little discount. Like they're just trading all these old linemen they got. They're like, we'll get a new one. It's fine. But the Cleveland, I don't want to spend too much time on an offensive lineman,

like right tackle turned left guard, Titus Howard that got flipped to Cleveland. I think the bigger picture thing here for Cleveland, and again, just to be clear, Cleveland traded a fifth run pick for Titus Howard, who is the left guard for Houston. Cleveland has all, depending how you count all five starting offensive linemen are free agents, I think they have seven total for agents on offensive line, which is insane. And you have Quinn Sean Judkins, the running back for Cleveland has a broken leg. Like a lot of crazy stuff with this offense. So they're getting Titus Howard.

But really, I think the point here is Deshaun Watson's going to start for Cleveland this year. Like, he's going to play. And aside from everything that happened with this man off the field, but we haven't even seen him on the field in a while because Deshawn Watson, aside from coming back, had, I believe, Austin Gale here at the ringer kept coming up at these numbers, where by almost any metric you looked at, the worst offense in Cleveland Brown's history was what Deshawn Watson did in the first half of the season.

Cannot be clear enough. Like, that is saying something. The worst offense in Brown's history. It's actually insane to think about that being true, but it was the first seven games, I believe it was the worst seven game period in the history of Cleveland Browns, an offensive efficiency.

Then Deshawn Watson tore his Achilles. Then he tore it again during rehab. again twice do it again and so now he's going to come back from this double Achilles tear and he's probably going to start because he makes $46 million a year

so that's what I'm thinking about when I look at this is Cleveland has to rebuild their entire offensive line just so Deshawn Watson can come back from a double Achilles tear this is even by Brown standards this is a crazy team this year dude when you look at Deshawn Watson

what he's done in the last however long he hasn't played more than seven games in the season since 2020? That's crazy. Which is a very long, he hasn't thrown for more than seven touchdowns in a season since 2020. It is, it's shocking. I actually, the Browns are, I used to think it was maybe the Jets,

I'd wanna be the least, maybe it is the Browns. Talking yourself into fucking DeShon Watson this year is as grim and low as it gets. Why don't they just start, Shitter, I'm confused. Pro Bowl quarterback shooter Sanders. Yeah. Why don't they just start Shador? Well, it'll be a competition.

It'll be the most electric competition in August. Shadur Sanders for Tashon Watson. It's actually insane. Again, I keep thinking about that Seth Walder post where he's like, when Shadur Sanders made the Pro Bowl. And he's like, well, Shadur didn't play enough to qualify for ESPN's total quarterback rating. But if he had, he would be last. Pro bowl or Shadur Sanders or Deshaun Wals. Anyway, so the Browns are just, geez, good luck.

Yeah, yeah, bless Andrew Barry's heart. Okay. Let's get to the combine. And there's a bunch of other free agency stuff. We're going to hit all the free agency stuff as it happens. There's a lot of the news. This can happen. That can happen.

We're going to hit it when it actually happens because sometimes the reports that come out are like just the group chat. Like all the 32 GMs don't have a group chat. They just do it through the news. And so sometimes they're like, oh, we're going to cut this guy. And it's like, uh, we're actually trying to trade that guy. So we'll hit everything as they actually happen, I think. Question. Please.

I briefly, I just thought of one question about the Browns and Deshawn really quickly. And we can continue on with the combine. If the Browns just cut to Sean Watson, does he get added by a team? No. Well, I mean, for $46 million, no, but yeah, it gets signed. Of course he does. Like, if the Browns just eat all the money,

you're like, we just want to get rid of him. To be clear. The team add him? To be clear, we're putting the morality aside and whatever you think of them. Like, yeah. No, not even really. I'm including that because that plays a factor.

The Miami Dolphins would sign him, yeah. You think so? Yes, I do. Arizona. D.K., you're saying they would mean they wouldn't sign. I kind of think that. I kind of think. No. Not worth it. Not worth the trouble.

Well, you're saying they should. You're saying 32 teams would decide to not sign him and his career would be over? Right. You actually think that? Yeah. Like, if the Browns ate all the money and they're just like, we just want him off the team. And we'll pay, like, whatever. Double Achilles injury. The Dolphins can sign him for one million

dollars a year. Incredible amount of baggage. No, I think he's, I think he'd be done. I think he'd be out of the league. I don't, I think, I think. Look, it's a hypothetical. It's a hypothetical. You can think one thing. That's fine. DK, nothing triggers DK more than what I disagree with me to say. I think not. You think so.

I can't tell. It's why I asked the question. I was like, man, if the brown, I'm like, what if the, the brats just fucking eat the money and get rid of him? And I'm like, would anybody add him? I don't know. I think, yes. Yes, of course they would. Or they're all fucking desperate.

To have a terrible quarterback who has an incredible amount of off, like off field baggage? Sure. Yeah, they are. They have no standards. Absolutely. These teams have no standards. The Arizona Cardinals don't give a fuck. I can't stress struggling enough.

He sucks at football. How can you sell that? What would you say? You're the new GM of, you're the two Chads in Miami, and how do you sell to the fan base why you're bringing in Deshaun Watson? At least, I mean, as deplorable as it was when the Browns did it, you could argue that he was coming off being a good quarterback still, and you believed he was a good quarterback.

What can you say now? What you tell the owner is like he was worth this a few years ago and he had the injuries and they're like, well, he put him in a system that wouldn't work. And they're like, he wouldn't work in this defensive system. and they just be honest and they're like, yeah, we don't really care about the stuff that happened. Then that's what you tell the fans? You probably change the message a little. Probably.

Probably have to tweak that, bring in a PR team, handle that very delicately. Okay, anyway, that was the hypothetical I wanted to ask. But it's good to know that it seems like there is not a... The fact that you guys even think it's possible that nobody would sign him and that he probably will start for Cleveland. It says anything, it says everything you need to do. That is the point, actually, yes. All right. Let's get to the NFL combine winners and losers.

I think there was more, this was a shockingly interesting combine for all the drills and everything and the actual results of the testing. And I want to go through winners and losers, but I'm curious if you disagree, Dick. I think the biggest winner of the combine is just speed. Yeah. Yeah. There's a crazy, there's some insane times. I mean, I think I can't remember another time where we saw so many four threes and four, fours among like big players, big human beings, people over 200 pounds?

Large people ran fast is the theme and they jumped high. I mean, I could go through, but it really, the Talladega Knights joke, like America's about speed, hot, nasty, badass speed. Like the, I'm just looking at pro football talk. The combine was just, it was the, the word ever is a little cheating because it's like 25 years since 2003 or 1999, depending on account. But the defensive backs as an overall group, fastest 40-yard dash ever. They all went four four four four seconds on average.

Wide receivers were also four four four, fastest four four four fastest four year dash on average for running backs for linebackers, tight ends, defensive linemen, even offensive linemen. Every single group had the fastest ever. Everyone was the fastest. Quarterbacks slow,

merely the second fastest group ever for quarterbacks in the 40-yard dash. I don't know, TK, will you give us a little Talladega when the cars go by? I love when those cars go by. It's a bummer we didn't stay long enough in Indy for DK to just sit there and watch all the 40 times and just rattling his seat. Yeah, just gripping the hand.

White knuckling the seat. Kenyan Sadiq's running. He's like, all the silverware is clattering as I'm, you know. Dude, so what do we make of this? To me, like the first thing I think of is like, okay, so all these terms are wrong, right? Like, there's something going on. Remember a couple years ago when they brought in the new guy that was manning the start gun or whatever? and then everyone's running 4-2.

The guy in charge of the laser or whatever retired for after 20 years. So that a new guy did it. And we were sitting at the stake, Ruth's Chris, and we were, Mike Tomlin, all the Steelers' coaches were next to us. Chris Olavet ran like, he tied the Combine record for 40-R-Dash. And we were all like, oh, shit. And Mike Tomlin was freaking out.

And then it was like, uh, you ran like a 4-3-4. It's fine. But it did feel like that this year just to go through it. I mean, I don't have to go through everything right now. But, I mean, we got Kenyon Sadiq, the tight end on Oregon, I got the fastest 40-yard dash ever for a tight end, depending on account or tied with, you know,

Vernon Davis from like 20 years ago. I mean, the amount of people who just had all these records is insane. But I don't know, I feel like it's one part, guys are actually faster, but then it's also one part, they're training more for the, for the 40-yard dash, because, for example,

fastest 40-yard dash ever average time for running backs. I believe one running back, though, did the three-cone drill. Like one running back participated, I believe, So that is wild One guy did it So that kind of tells you It's like it's just time on task

They're just spending more time training For the 40 and then they're like I'm good And then I think it's part three Is the slower guys stopped doing it Right right right right And so they're like oh I'll do it up my pro day I'll my track will be better or whatever And I'll run a little faster more time to train

So like the slower guys stopped The faster guys are just spending more time on it And then the national progression of athletes getting better Is my guess Yes I think he'll be Those are all the variables that are going in. Is it survivorship bias or selection bias? Whatever the case is, but only the fast guys are running now.

Basically because the actual people that are taking part in the combine is still going down. I feel like this year there was some more big name stars that took part and that was cool. But I want to say, Arefusson pointed this out like the overall participation in the testing is still down year over year by quite a lot. Yeah. So basically it's the fast guys are the ones testing and they're doing well. And then everyone else is like, no, I'm not going to test because I don't want you to make fun of me. I'm not fast. So I won't run.

Right. And like Hyphen said, guys are being more specialized. They're not doing the three cone. They're not doing some of the more technical drills that are like harder and probably take more time to train for. And so now when you watch the 40 yard dash, when you watch these guys, their form is ridiculous. It's actually very good. Even like some of these really gangly offensive linemen are getting out of the blocks really fast and all this. So you can tell the training is improved.

The athletes, I think generally. athletes just improve every year. It's just kind of a thing. The training gets better, the health, you know, like the diet, all that stuff is people are just better at it. You got chat beat GPT. You can ask him what to eat beforehand and all this stuff. There was no one to ask. No, right. No one knew. You'd have to look it up in. No one had any idea. You know? Yeah. You had no idea if a banana was good for you, bad for you. We didn't know. It was tough. That was like the word I held tongue and cheat, Craig for the record. But yes. But also like maybe did they change the turf and everyone's just fucking faster

and bouncier because some of the vertical jumps were insane as well. There's like a guy who jumped 45 inches. Dude, the vertical, the jumping is also out of controls. I mean, Sunny Stiles is like, I think the first guy to ever be over 240 pounds and hit 43 and a half inches. Yeah. First six foot

four or six foot five guy to ever jump 43 and a half inches. I mean, Sunny Stiles, the linebacker from Iowa State, who he's the biggest winner of all this. He was a big story. Yes. I think he's the biggest winner of all this. You could argue he had one of the best combat performances ever. We can't talk about Sunny Stiles for a long time. We learned he's actually nicknamed after Sunny from the godfather

because he had so many anger issues as a child that they just called him Sunny because he had a temper, which could talk about that for a long time. His vertical jump is a foot higher than Brani James. Dude, his, what was his official vertical? 43 and a half inch vertical, which in the NBA is very good. At the NBA Combine, which is cheating a little because all the, elite guys don't do the NBA combine really. But I don't think anyone at the NBA combine

has said 43 and a half inches in like four years. And he hit that as a linebacker. That's like Anthony Edwards level at vertical. I mean, Michael Jordans was like 47, 48. I mean, he is, this is truly elite territory for an NFL player. He's also, and D.K. I want you to talk about this.

He's also a fucking six foot five linebacker, Sunny Stiles. I think you could count on one hand how many genuine six foot five guys have played inside linebacker in the NFL. That's not normal. And so you're like, oh, they're big. And he's also this athletic. And so I think Sonny Stiles, and you look at him, it's the over.

It's one of the better combine performance ever because the physical, like, he's so big. And he's really fast. And he can jump high. And that is kind of the whole point. Yes. I think it's going to push him up even more. I mean, there's talk of people, people are coming out of the combine. People are saying top five is possible.

I certainly certainly think top 10 is possible now if it, if it wasn't already. especially in a season like this or in a draft like this where there's not a lot of blue chip guys at premium positions. I think his his potential and ceiling is going to push him up and teams are going to get really, really excited about it. By the way, the tape is good too. You know what I mean? It's not like this guy's just a super athletic guy that maybe we can turn him into a good player. Like his tape was already good.

His tackle, his mistackle rate was minuscule this last year. He has the versatility. Sometimes he lines up on the edge and he rushes. He's like kind of very. So it's almost strange to how similar him and Arvel Reese are. He framed Marvell Reese. Yeah, Reese had a great combine too, and he got totally overshadowed because Sunny Stiles was absolutely just going nuclear on it.

But I mean, I think. Sunny Stiles was gesturing so much that he framed Mogged Arville Reese out of being the number two pick and all the mock drafts. Let this die. Let this die. We were first and now we're going to let it. Yeah, that's right. We're going to be first to abandon.

It's cool to leave the party early. Yeah, yeah. But yes, I think he was maybe the biggest overall winner, just because I think now if someone takes them in the top five, it's not going to be like that big of a deal to the general public probably. DK, I want to ask you basically so there's a lot of these guys who were really fast, a lot of these freak athletes. Is this like the Eamon Worry effect?

Is there like a, and is there a type of player that is now more coveted? These like tweener types, like we were talking at the combat about that guy, the Cardinals drafted, was it something Collins like five years ago who was like this tweener? Zaven Collins? Sivan Collins lineback. The Cardinals is also the Clemson guy from like Isaiah Simmons.

Isaiah Simmons. It was like these like 6-3, 64, 220 guys that are like, is he a safety? Is he a linebacker? Is he a, like what is he? Dionne Buchanan. Yeah. Are we now entering kind of a different era

where we want to have these like big nickel safety types that are like these fast tweener safety linebacker types? Is that a new trend because of what we're seeing from the modern defenses in your opinion? I mean, I think it definitely can. But yes. And it's like the Mike McDonald's sort of family of defenses is going to be copied. And, you know, there's going to be his coaching tree is going to expand over the next few years, basically.

And that is sort of, I think the big picture is you have guys that can do a little bit of everything. They can run. They can cover. They can tackle. They can blitz. You never know where pressure is going to come from. Because it's the same on offense. It's like it used to be the best receiver was on the outside and the running back ran the ball and the tide end was slow.

And now it's like the tight ends are basically receiver. the best wide receiver on the team is playing in the slot half the time. Jamir Gibbs is basically a wide receiver. So you need these linebackers and safeties and Nichols to be able to cover everybody because everybody on offense is becoming the same thing. Yeah, you need to match the explosiveness that you're seeing in the skill positions. And I think this is a big part of it. So many styles is really interesting, man.

I mean, there were times where he looked legitimate. I took this as kind of like a negative, but I also think it can be framed as a point pointing to a C. There were times where he kind of looked bored, like this last year where I was like, he's like just, he's so fast and rangy and long and explosive that there were times where he just didn't even look like he was trying that hard and he was still making the plays. I think his ceiling is is absolutely astronomical. And I think Arvel Reese, by the way, still awesome. Still a great prospect. Yeah, the other.

Well, I don't even know what to call him inside. They're both. They are both guys who Arvel Reese played basically 50-50 off ball. linebacker and edge. And I think Sunny Stiles splits were slightly more towards linebacker, but he could, he did still get opportunities to kind of come off the edge. I think, but they're very similar elite athletes, great length, great Twitch. I think R. Val Rees is maybe a little bit more wiggle laterally.

But, you know, man, Ohio State. Ohio State is probably the real winner of the draft, the real winner of the combine, because they were talking about Matt Patricia prepared. They all crushed their interviews too. And I think Matt Patricia prepared them for their interviews, which I've made fun of him a lot, but he's probably prepared them for their interviews better than other coach teams could. So I think all the Ohio State guys are Arville Reese and Sunny Stiles, in particular, the winners. But to that point about Mike McDonald, to your point, Craig,

Nick Enmon Worry, who again is the safety he took in the second round, who I think should have won defensive rookie of the year, really like elevated the defense and everything. And I think that that is the key thing to understand about these guys, Arville Reese and Sunny Stiles. And Dylan Tiananman from Oregon, it's a safety. The enemy. Oh, yeah, it's the enemy. Yeah, it's the enemy and the overall trend though it's not that complicated in deep in sports and particularly on defense you have to be able to do a little bit of everything as deca said in spaces you can't just be like it used to be in football and in basketball i'm an a at this and i'm a d at this but i'll be a situational player and so like if you're in basketball the roy hibbert right you're a center you're

seven foot tall no handle you can't guard the perimeter i'm a great protector of the rim but i can't go out in the three point line and then And NBA, they just started switching everything. And so we're going to drag Roy Hibber down to the space into the deep end. He can't survive out here. They hunted those types of players to extinction. They don't exist anymore. Now all the seven footers can shoot threes because they're the only ones who survived.

Football is very same. You used to have linebackers that were giant and hulking could stop the run but couldn't do the pass. And they'd play on early downs. And you'd have smaller guys that were like past defenders or pass rushers, whatever. They'd play in passing downs. And you're an A and one thing. you're a D and the other. And guess what?

Kyle Shanhan and Sean McVeigh hunted all those defenders to extinction. And so they wanted, just like NBA, it's like you actually, it's more valuable to be a B and everything than have a D anywhere because they're going to find

what you're bad at. Defense is the same thing. And again, it's not rocket science. There's all the, Mike McDonald at his podium at the combine said, he says, frankly, scheme is overrated.

It's about how you play. All the guys in the Houston Texans can fucking tackle. There are no quarterbacks who are about at tackling on the Seahawks other than Rick Wallen and even then he's a physical crazy, he's crazy talented.

There are no defensive backs in the Houston Texans that cannot tackle. Everyone in Seattle, everyone in Houston, they can all stop the run, they can all tackle, and they're all a B at everything

at a minimum. So the point being, like, that is the overall trend. And as we go through it, though, sunny style, like those kind of guys are essential. Sunny Stiles has the chance to be an A at everything.

Like the ceiling is health, all this stuff, but like, he is what I think everyone is looking for, which is someone who could do everything, potentially at an elite level. So my question, D.K.

Is where do you take a linebacker who might be able to do that? Like, is he the Giants at five? Should they take Sunny Stiles? I mean, honestly, again, in this draft, if he went third, it probably wouldn't bug me, to be totally honest. I think going back over the years, you don't see many linebackers go that high, just off-ball linebackers, but I think you could talk yourself into him being, you know, moonlighting off the edge as well with that explosiveness and that length

and just the potential to him to get him kind of. of lined up all over the all over the field so you know what I mean I think there's actually no I still think Arvel Reese probably the number two pick but you know coming off of coming off of the combine he definitely got sunny styles definitely got more hype and was in completely overshadowed Reese who is a little lighter and a little smaller so you know there's no ceiling really other than I don't think he's going to go first to the Raiders you know that's that's kind of the nature of this draft hard to argue and again we could position value getting all that later. But I want to just reiterate, we made a ton of fun of the combine

entering this. And we're always like, oh, they ran a 40 with no pads on from a track stance without a football. And it's like, oh, like, we already know they're fast. They have tape. And I want to just point out, Mike McDonald said about Nick Em and Worry, who had the best combine performance last year. He's like, it just forced Mike McDonald to go back and actually look at all his tape with a lot more scrutiny. And he's just watch, because they have to watch all these free agents that they're going to sign all these guys. And so it actually forced Mike McDonald's like, after the combine, I went and watched him way deeper. So, Craig, I wanted to ask I have a weird theory here

because I don't want to be like oh well these guys had good combines they're going to be drafted now I think the combine has a lot in common with the for your consideration campaigns for Oscar movies okay because the same

mailers no but in all seriousness they said all the voters they have parties they meet the actors they do the stuff they have campaigns and it's like

why do you need all this if you're a voter you saw the movie why would anything other than the movie matter Well, first of all, just because your voter doesn't mean you sell the movie. That's the whole point. They are constantly inviting you to screenings where the stars show up, where there's

Q&As. They're trying to get these movies in front of people because they don't, you know, throwing it on at home with your screener when you're distracted and you're doing other things is not the same as getting you to go to Hamnet where Jesse Buckley is going to sit down afterwards and do a Q&A. And I think the combine is the exact same thing. And I think that's how I'd frame it, where it's like when, And Sonny style, like, or I think the next guy, Kenyon Sadiq from Oregon, I want to talk about him.

He's the other side of the coin here. Yeah. You know, he's legitimately the schematic inverse to Sunny Stiles. What does Sunny Stiles solve? He can run with the elite tight ends. He can run with the elite running backs. And now we got Kenyon Sadiq who's posting, sorry, I totally interrupted you. He's posting absolutely astronomical testing numbers.

Fastest tight end ever at the combat? Yeah, depending. But no, that's what I was saying, though, is that I think that to your Craig's It's the same thing where it's like the reason that the numbers matter is when they say, oh, it's the fastest head of ever. It's like, oh, did you watch? Like the head coach might have just started this. Like, did you watch Kenyon Sneak?

Yeah, I watched five games. It's like, all right, well, now I guess I'll watch 11. This is how advertising works. Yes. If he runs a fast 40 time, now you have something that you can market. Yes. I also think it's, we can't lose track of the fact, and you guys are alluding to this throughout this whole thing.

We can't lose track of the fact that we're all human beings. We are susceptible to things. You know what I mean? Yeah. You're susceptible to hear. during that and then you start to anchor that, oh, he is, this is the fastest tight end we've ever seen at the combine. What can I think with that?

D.K., is your dog just barking up a storm right now? Yeah, every time we start a podcast, he goes downstairs and starts barking it up. He's like, Sunny Stiles is a dog. If you do a podcast at home, don't buy a great Pyrenees dog because they are just, they just love barking it up. Something funny about saying, don't buy a dog. I don't buy. agree. It's right.

We didn't buy him. We adopted him. He was a rescue. But you can't buy a dog, but no one says that, do they? That's the joke we always get. You get a dog. You don't buy one. But you do.

Well, the joke we always make is that like every dog owner sometimes, like either adopted or you're like, oh, I paid $7,000 for a golden doodle that was raised on a farm in North Carolina. And the cat owners are like, I found mine in a garbage can. Haif, it's your dog, your cat literally had a, his ear bitten off because he was living in. No, they clip the ear because it's like a community cat thing. It means he's been like vaccinated and doesn't have words. He's not an anti-vax cat.

That's what the clippings for. Do you want me to yell at my dog? No, no, I like it. People have dogs. People have heard of dogs. It's fine. Keep it. Keep it in it.

It's a little good. But the way, last thing on Sunny Stiles says, did you see Kyle Hamilton? They did a side-by-side of his numbers in Sunny-Siles. And Kyle of Hamilton did quote tweet it and said I got brutally framed-mogged. Brut. I like the brutally. I like the brutally. throwing in that brutally framed mind.

It is crazy that he's... It was brutal. Perfect use of it. Yeah, that is what it. But the fact that he's 25 pounds heavier than Kyle Hamilton, he's an inch taller. He ran pretty decently faster than the 40, and he's six inches higher in the vertical.

Just these more explosive athlete. Bigger, faster, and going to play linebacker. I just kind of can't get over it for sunny styles. DK, do you think freak athletes benefit more on the defensive side than the offensive side? There's a lot of offensive players like Pooka Nakuas, and I don't know. A lot of the best offensive players are not,

like the biggest freaks. I'm on Ross St. Brown or even JSN to a degree. Is it harder? But you're like, you know what? But they know how to play. They know what they're doing. They're good. They're savvy.

Is that harder to identify on defense? And is it easier to just be like, give me the freak? That's a great question. I think my initial reaction is, yes, it's probably easier to coach up and develop a freak athlete on the defensive side of the ball than offensive side. Just because, I mean, there's a reason they call them skill players on offense. Like, there's a lot.

You have to catch the ball. You have to run routes. You have to be really. savvy in terms of identifying the coverages that you're going to be able to exploit you have to have chemistry with the quarterback there's so many different things I think this is super generalized because you have to have skill on defense also you have to have instincts and play with anticipation tackling and all that stuff there's certainly skills on that side of the ball but I do think I mean some of the

best pass rushers in the NFL are just the freakyest athletes right so I think there is probably a stronger correlation there on the defensive side of the ball where you could coach up a guy on defense and turn him into something. And I think that's kind of actually apt with the M&Wory thing. The M&Wry effect is something we talked about coming into this draft, coming into this combine, I should say. And his tape in college wasn't like elite. And there's a reason he went in the second round. You know what I mean? There were some issue. There were some concerns about his stiffness in terms of changing directions and going backwards. He was, I think, thought of as more of a guy who's going to be a robber.

and come downhill and play downhill, not necessarily be a back-end safety. So there were some reasons that he didn't have higher draft capital coming into the draft last year. And Mike McDonald was able to kind of identify the strengths that he has and put him in a place where he can be an absolute game changer for the CIS. I was going to say that there's nature versus nurture here too, right? Do you think if even Worry goes to a team that's terrible?

And I mean on the defensive side, they have a bad defensive roster. Do you think that changes how his rookie season, Is it was it way easier for him that he could step into the to a great defensive team and kind of just do what he needs to do and that's it not have to compensate for the lack of whatever else is around? I think so. Yeah, I think so. I mean, look at the CX defensive line. Seahawks' defensive line was one of the best in the NFL.

Their ability to, you know, take on blocks, create pressure, force the, force the quarterback to get rid of the ball a little bit quicker. There's all these different variables. They all, you know, all these guys are connected. I think, yes, absolutely. The fact that he had, you know, Witherspoon played opposite him or next to him at times. It was like a huge factor. There's so many variables that go into that. And yeah, dropping a, it's like a different.

This is different, but dropping like a good running back or into or an elite running back into a already good team makes that that guy that much better because he's got good blocking, you know, all this other thing, all these other things. Good quarterback. I do think it matters. Which, again, just kind of makes, evaluating guys. the draft so impossible because like not only do we have to decide whether they're good or not is like where are they going to land and what players are they going to be playing around yeah it's like could work here might be a disaster here totally totally that's why i i joke about this every year but we should just evaluate the prospects all over again now that they where they've landed because it's just as

important totally go as you know can you imagine we just like February to start over we're just chilling and then they get drafted and that we talk about it that makes more sense it probably does winner the other winning but we mentioned Kenyon Sadiq so he's the tight end from Oregon he's six foot three is two inch and 41 pounds he ran a four three nine 40 yard dash so it's the fastest 40 yard dash ever for a tight end and the stat that went around uh all social media was just that he hit this Kenyan Sadiq hit the same top speed during his 40 yard dash as Jemir Gibbs did which is 23.2 miles per hour that's wild but unbelievable but the point is that Sadiq is 42 pounds heavier than Jemir Gibbs so if you go I think of Gibbs is

like the fastest player in the actual right now. And so he's 42 pounds heavier and obviously the heavy you are, the hardest it is to go fast. So the speed score, which is not very complicated formula, but it's basically accounting for how heavy you are because Xavier worthy breaking the 40-yard dash record. Well, Brian Thomas running for the same year at the 40-yard dash having almost the same speed where he's 30 pounds every is more impressive. So Kenyon Sadiq is in the 100th percentile, obviously for tight end like speed score. but by so much because again,

he's fucking 241 pounds and had the fastest 40 yard dash for Titan ever. Like that's insane. He also had an outstanding vert and broad jump. He's third all time in combine history in vert. And then, sorry, in broad jump. And then his vertical was 43 and a half, which is second most. So, D.K., which you say is athletic.

He is, this is going to be an interesting one. Hopefully he doesn't suck or else my whole athletic argument is going to kind of crumble in front of my eyes. How good is Kenyon, Sadiq, and where would a team have? to take it. Like, who's the first team that takes Kenyon Sadiq that you're like, oh, it's too real. Like if Washington took Kenyon Sadiq with the seventh pick, you'd be like, I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't like judge it harshly because I think adding a player like him would make sense in their offense. And how good is he? Like, how good? I know he's fast and you can jump and all that stuff. Is he good at football? Yeah, I already thought he was good. I think he is undersized

six three, uh, 241, which is not quite as big as some of the. unquote like prototypical tight ends in the NFL. But the 240 pound range is actually where I think the NFL is going with tight ends. I mean, if you look at like Trey McBride, the guy from the Lions whose name is escaping in Florida, there's all these other guys that are kind of in that range now coming out of out of college football where they can do a little bit of everything. They're they're serviceable as blockers. They may not be gronk, but they're serviceable as blockers.

They can be utilized in the screen game in terms of. of getting them out into space and blocking in the screen game. I think that's that is what Sadiq does. He's, he's to me a pretty good blocker who also has rare athletic traits and could be developed in the passing game. I think, you know, he had some,

he had some real moss moments where he was like going up and, and taking the ball away from guys at the catch point, but he also had a couple drops. Like, he's not a perfect prospect by any means. I don't think he's like the best tight end prospect we've seen lately. He's not as good in my mind as Bowers or some of these other guys from recent years. But I think he's a pretty darn.

good prospect and the athleticism is off the charts good. So I think the ceiling is there for him to be a three down linebacker. They're not going to have to take him off the field when they want to run the ball. Sorry, what I say linebacker. Yeah, tight end. He probably could play linebacker. Honestly, sure. I don't think that he's he's not the type of guy they have to take off the field when they want to actually block. You know what I mean? So he's not going to be like this Kincaid type of player where he's being drafted only as a receiver. On that note, I want to ask you with the other Ted end who is Eli Stowers, and I thought it was Stowers, but I'm pretty sure it's Stowers like Flowers,

the tight end from Vanderbilt. And feel free to correct me on that, but I'm pretty sure. So he's six or four, two hundred and three pounds. He ran a four or five, 40 or dash, but his vertical,

he jumped 45 inches vertically, which to Craig's point. 45 and a half. It's pretty great. That is, I can't tell you how high that is. That is like elite NBA vertical. Craig, it's the most in Combine history. Yeah, it's no one's ever in all players.

Again, that would be all time in the NBA. Like, that is really pushing the limits of what, humans can do. It's crazy. I mean, he, it's almost four feet. Like, it's fucking crazy. And he's six foot four.

He also had the broad jump. He jumped 11 feet, which, think about that. Jumped 11 feet. Like, that's crazy. And so he's, 100th percentile, all this stuff, all the outrageous testing. I have to say, though.

So it's a classic insane athlete. He was at Vanderbilt. Vanderbilt's a weird football program because they were like the Indiana of the SEC and then now they're like, well, he was at three, he went to A&M and then New Mexico State and then Vanderbilt.

The, D.K., I'm really curious if you think here. I'm not trying to say anything about Eli Stowers in particular, in particular. But I don't know what to do with this position, because I don't think anyone thinks Eli Stowers is good at blocking. Like, it's the nicest thing you can say is he needs to develop. Just make him a receiver. Well, that's my question. I think when you look at the athletic. When you look at the athletic profile, I think you look at this guy at Stowers from Vanderbilt and you're like, well, a crazy athlete, definitely an NFL player.

Disappeared during some of the harder defenses. that they had to play, like he probably, I think he dominated a little bit more versus their easier opponents. But when it's like, bam, or a Georgia or Florida, I don't think he was quite as good. But I feel like it's like, oh, Eli Stowers, look at this number's first runner.

I wouldn't want my team to take him. What are we going to do with a receiving tight end who can't really block? But someone should. And I'm like, what is the value of this position of like a way more athletic Evan Ingram? That I just feel like this player is not the kind of player I want in the NFL right now.

Like, if you can't block, And you're not an elite receiver as a tight end? Like I don't, what am I going to do with you? I know. Well, it is truly, and again, goes back to what we were just saying. It depends where he lands. Like, what kind of offense are they going to be running with him? So he basically a de facto slot receiver because I'm, I'm into that.

Like, I'll be really excited about that. If they're trying to turn him into a traditional inline tight end, it might take a really long time. And I think we see this kind of a lot. It's like why tight end is kind of a slow developing position. is, you know, these guys are coming into the NFL. They got to learn how to block. They got to learn how to be a de facto offensive alignment in a lot of cases.

If he lands with a team, that's just going to be like, look, we know that your skill set is as a receiver and we're going to like let you just go be a slot receiver. So he's like a Monrus St. Brown or something. I'm like Harold Fanon or something like that where you're just utilizing me in the passing game, screens, slants, things like that where you're not asking him to be a blocker that much. I think that's where he could really shine. But yeah, it just depends where he lands.

He's probably going to land like 40 feet away because he can jump so freaking high. Like think about like how the the Chargers used Gadsden or under Gadsden this year where he was like essentially just a big receiver. But again, it's like how often are you going to be on the field? Are they going to have him on the field enough to have him be a useful fantasy option? because there's a lot of quote unquote like pass catching move tight ends that just don't play enough. It's like the Isaiah likely thing

or just trying to think of like Chigakonkwo where you're constantly mesmerized by their upside in terms of, well, if this guy played 75% of snaps, he'd be elite, but a lot of these teams are just going to draft these guys and then play them like 40% of snaps.

This just felt like the point of Moneyball. It was like that scene in Moneyball where they're like, oh my God, think about how good of a hitter this guy could be. Look at his ass and he's like, we're not still in jeans here. And I'm like, Like, you can jump and go.

Are you going to play them? Yeah, like half. Yeah, sure. I'm like, yeah, that's the question. The other winner here I think we have to, it's Jeremiah Love, the running back from Notre Dame. It was fun to actually have great, the great players actually participate in the combine.

I mean, D.K., this is obviously number one running back. Everyone's number one running back, but he's six foot, two hundred twelve pounds. Four three, six, four to four to four to year, second fastest of any running back this year. But faster than Sequin Barkley, Christian McCaffer, Jonathan Taylor, Bichon Robinson in the 40-yard dash, and just the perfect mix of insanely productive against what Notre Dame

schedule probably kept him out of the college football playoff. But he's been insanely productive for Notre Dame for two years and is also just runs very fast. I don't know. I feel like he probably would have been a higher prospect than Ash and Gentile last year. Like Jeremiah Love probably would have been drafted ahead of Gentie last season. I think that is a good question. I would love to see that play out because, I feel like I still would have Gentie slightly higher.

I'd have him in a slightly higher tier. It feels like Gentie was more of a phenomenon. I think like his highlights were more, he was a more viral style runner. I think Gentie has more wiggle and more tackle breaking prowess, but Love is probably closer to what the NFL actually needs in terms of his passing game ability, his ability to kind of like line up and run routes and win on one at ones.

He has that home run hitting potential that I don't know if Genti was known quite as much for. So yeah, he would just like get singles and bulldoze through all the infielders for it. Right. Also, Notre Dame against Boise State. Like NFL seems probably going to take Notre Dame. You know what I mean? Just because of the the history there and the competition. Mountain West underrated. No, you're right. But yeah. So yeah, I would have loved to see how that happened. I'm guessing, yeah, you're right. You're probably right. I was like, love probably would have gone higher in last year's draft. We, DK, we had an argument about this. And it's before we had our coffee so he stopped because I thought it was it was going to go ugly. Craig, you weren't down here for this.

You were dealing with some Netflix $80 billion deal episode of the town with Matthew Bellity. Highly recommend, by the way, great show. $11.11 billion now. Right. 11D billion. That's a lot. It's a lot to make movies. It's a lot of money. That's so many billions. That's crazy. We couldn't agree where Jeremiah Love was going to go in the draft. And like, I think the ceiling, we probably agree roughly is like the Giants at five. feel like the highest team that would take Jeremiah Love, even if he might be the highest graded player on teams board.

The Raiders are going to take Mendoza. I don't think the Jets tag for each hall. They're not going to take a running back. The Cardinals, I don't think they're going to take a running back. The Titans probably aren't taking running back. The Giants are the first team, I think might. D.K. and I had no agreement whatsoever on where the floor was.

And I'm curious, Craig. I don't know the best way to do this movie. But the Browns are at six. Washington's at seven. Then there's like old school. Saints are at eight. I could see that happening. Chiefs are at nine.

People see that could happen. Bengals, as old school as it gets. And the disagreement, because D.K. was wondering, could he fall to 18 or 19 or 20? And on one hand, I see what he's saying. On the other hand, I'm like, if he's the number one graded player in teams boards, I feel like he could go to a surprising team. Bengals at 10. Dolphins at 11.

Cowboys are at 12. Rams at 13. Ravens at 14. Bucks at 15. I'm like, is Buckier? Sorry, is Jeremiah Love really going to fall like 16 spots? Probably going to go top 10. I thought about it.

I thought about it more. There is a gap between 9 and 18. Like, I think if he gets past Kansas City at 9, he probably won't get drafted until 18 plus at Minnesota. Because I think all of those teams don't need running backs or have other plans. But I probably agree with you. I feel like every year that there's a kind of superstar outlier running back like this, the same. We have the same conversations. Well, you can't, you don't want to draft a running back too early.

It never works out. And then you know what? Somebody drafts the running back in the time. top 10. Like, when is the last time the generational running back went 23rd? Also, all these guys who hated nerds and hated the running back argument, they're like, look, you idiots, the running, like running the ball came back around. Like, they all feel right. So I feel like he's not getting past Kansas City at nine. I think the floor is Cowboys at 12. I think the Cowboys, like the idea that 12,

because there's only considered 12 first, 11 first round grades or whatever, the idea that a player that would be at worst, your third highest graded player, at some point, I hope boards mean something because we talk about fucking boards with teams for four months. At some point, if he's your highest rated player on a board and then he falls to 12th,

then what are we even doing? You know what I mean? But it's an interesting question, D.K., because that is what might happen. Where do you think he should go? Like, if you were somehow running all these teams, where is the right place to take a running back?

Because we always talk about, well, you should do it when you have the offensive line in place. Yeah. It's the cherry on top. We got an argument on the way to dinner, I think it was Thursday night, about if he should go to the chiefs or not.

I vehemently think no. No, no, no. Yeah, the argument that we got into was like, who's the coolest team that he could go to? And Craig and I think were initially just like chiefs and then hyphins is like, this is the boring. We just keep that in conversations about what's cool with Kansas City. You know what? I think here's my issue. Is Mahomes cool?

No, I would love going there be cool. Here's, well, the cool. No, not just the cool. It's the chiefs. I think we had this insight during the season that in season, in season Danny Kelly would hate offseason Danny Kelly. Like they wouldn't get along. They don't agree on anything.

And like, I think that, Craig, you have a little bit of this too. I think Craig is severed. I'm, I'm who I am. Yeah, you guys are severed. Craig has for four years, all he's done is talk about how much he hates watching the Chiefs offense every week. Craig has probably mentioned 60 times over the last four years. Because they're running Kareem Hunt out there.

Because they need good players. They need exciting players. So, yes, but if you had one exciting player, how is that the- just runs into the back of his blockers? So how's that the coolest place Jeremiah Love could go? Because it's my husband. He comes up in ACL and a bunch of slow people. Andy Reed and Patrick Mahomes.

That's not the coolest place he could go. Like, if you look at all these other teams. What do you want to say? The fucking Chargers? Like, he's not going to go there. Like, it would be cool if he was there, but it's not going to happen. Within reason. I think the Cowboys are much cooler than the Chiefs.

And they're two picks away. Three picks away. The Cowboys having a legit offensive line, C.D. Lamb, franchise type pickins, and DAC. I think that's the coolest place he could go. Yeah, that's cool, too. Sure. I agree.

I think that is. The Chiefs are decrepit. Have you seen the fucking teakened? team? I think on the scale, on the spectrum of, you know, out of every NFL team where he could land. The chiefs to me of a team that could actually draft him are closer to a 10 on the cool scale than a one.

I mean, what are we talking about? Even if it doesn't make sense for them, the chiefs, Patrick Mahomes having an elite player on the team is cool. Would you rather? Tyree Kill on the chiefs was cool. Travis Kelsey and the chiefs was cool. Jeremy I love on the chiefs would be cool. Yeah.

Just to continue the Mahomesboro thing. not for Bengals fans, not for Chiefs fans, not for the teams, for our sake, for the purpose of the NFL being popular and like us creating content. Okay.

Would you rather Jeremiah Love go to the Bengals and be with Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase and Teagans or would you rather Jeremy Love go to the Chiefs because they pick nine and ten back to back. Chiefs are nine Bengals or 10. D.K. Same. Yeah,

because it's like the teams are interesting too many cooks. Too many cooks in the Bengals. Also, I don't trust the Bengals. You know what's so fun. I feel like I've been defending the Bengals all offseason because everyone's like, well, you gotta put an offensive line around Joe Burrow.

I'm like, they shelled out like $400 million for all the players Joe Burrow asked for. If they had let T. Higgins go, we'd be saying they're so cheap. You won't, if they'd put that money to offensive line and signed Dan Moore Jr. to play left tackle, we'd be like, you're too cheap to bring T. Higgins back. They brought Chase back. They brought T. Higgins back.

Joe Burrow asked for fucking Mike Gisickey. They brought him back too. They did everything he asked for, and everyone's like, you don't do anything for Joe Burrow. I'm like, get out of here. They just spent more money than they ever spent. I don't even know if they spent that much money to buy the fucking team. I don't know.

What are they supposed to do? Real quick, getting back to the argument that Hyfitts and I had about where to put Jeremiah Love in the mock drafts. It's weird. Part of the process that I truly try to put myself into the minds of the teams as they're going along and like, what is going to be the most valuable pick we can make here? What are some of the holes? First of all, number one, teams don't always fill their biggest need with their first round

pick. That's not how it works. Sometimes there's weird picks. No, every time. every draft are a bunch of weird picks. So it's not always like, oh, this guy feels the need. It's they, it is who they think is the highest draft player. That being said, if I'm putting myself in the minds of the Cardinals,

if they take a running back at three, that is so stupid to me. That doesn't solve any of your problems. It just doesn't make you sense. We're learning the wrong lesson. We're taking the wrong lessons from some of these teams that in the past with like the success they've had at running back. I mean, look at what the Raiders did. They took a running back and now they're picking first.

So I do try to put myself in the minds of these teams and in these decision makers. And I'm like, if I'm the Cardinals, I'm absolutely not taking a running back, even if he's my top graded player. Spin zone. Spin zone. Look at the Raiders. The draft at Ashton Genti. Maybe you want to be first. And now you have your franchise quarterback and your franchise running back.

Maybe the Cardinals take Jeremiah Love, suck with Jacoby Brissette. And the next year's draft class, great quarterbacks. Now you have Arch Manning and Jeremiah Love in 2027. Congratulations. I mean, if you want to play like 4D chess, sure. Like, you could do it that way. I don't think people think that. It's the producers.

No one will see that. Exactly. I mean, Pete Carroll took frigging gentie and then he got fired. So I don't know. I think I do agree with you though. Like in this draft class, it's like this is going to be a refrain that we say like for everything. But in this draft class, he could go really high. He could go three or four.

The other part with the Jeremiah love thing is. Why couldn't Tennessee take him? I don't see why that's not going to happen. Yeah, you're right. That probably is awesome. same reason. But like Tennessee, at least, you feel a little bit better about the offensive line. You have your quarterback.

There are no good skill players on Tennessee. Like as cool as I think I like I like O. Manor is and Calvin Ritt. Like they need a cool player to like score touchdowns and pick up yards on this team. Jeremy Love. That's fair. I guess it could go. Help that team. If the Titans took Jeremiah Love, I think it would be really surprising, but you're

right. It probably wouldn't be stunning. Like they could. Who is getting the ball in Tennessee that we feel good about? I just reject the idea that you need to. I think when there's defensive ends that high, I think generally speaking, it's just harder to find those guys on round two and three

than it is running backs and receivers. But I do think to the Jeremy, I love conversation, and I want to talk about this next guy, Mike Washington Jr., the running back from Arkansas, who, I mean, 6'1, 22 pounds,

he ran a 4-3-40-yard dash, which considering he's over 200,000 pounds, one of the best times ever. Again, 100% down speed score. Best speed score ever? Yeah, he had the fastest 40-yard dash of any running back this year, and he's 220 pounds,

which again, Devon A-Chant ran a pretty similar time, like 428 versus 433. Like 185 pounds. Yeah. 35 fewer pounds or whatever you weighed in. Like, like,

that's insane. It's basically the same thing. And it was actually a really nice moment. Like Mike Washington kind of like broke down, like two hands covering his face crying. Yeah, yeah. And then he apologized on NFL network, and he was like,

I'm sorry, I'm emotional. I just worked for this my whole life. And it was like really sweet. And you're like, and I do think that's the larger conversation, too, is like those fringe guys getting moved up is the bigger thing. But I think this is similar to the Jeremiah Love conversation

because it's a huge gap between Jeremiah Love and these other running backs. Last year, D.K., how many guys were projected to be like maybe starting a level in front of running backs? Like, eight or nine? Yeah. Like, we ended up with the 10. And the Steelers picked the one guy who wasn't. Yes.

Yes. Yes, quite, yes. Yes, you did. But the... I'll get you, Omar Khan. I'm coming. You tell them I'm coming. I'm bringing hell with me.

But I think that's why you saw David Montgomery trade today is because teams have to go and get a running back because they're like, we can't draft one. That is the, that's the read between the lines like thing that happened today. Like the Texans giving up two picks and a player to go get a right, like a 28 year old running back. To me, the first thing I thought I was like, oh, God, they hate this, this running back group. Yeah. Like they're, you know, this is why Kenneth Walker's probably going to get paid really well. Priest Hall is getting franchised. There's basically one good like elite running back in this class that's Jeremiah Love. And then there's a lot of guys. There's a there's a lot of jags just to guys. I don't know. Maybe Mike Washington can be better. The thing that I kind of thought about with Mike Washington, look, I think he he'll probably go like third round.

I think the speed is legit. You can see the speed on tape, which is important. It's not just a guy who runs runs really fast in the 40. you can see the speed on the field but he's a fifth year guy he's now on his third school this is the first year that he kind of produced big time numbers the thing that it kind of came to my mind is there's an Instagram account

that is like is this a good fit or is this guy just hot? You know and it's like is he stylish or just hot and I don't know if he's actually good or if he's just fast. There's a lot of really fast guys that don't turn out to be any good

like Isaac Garendo Jalen Wright Isaiah Pachia I guess he was better than people expected, so maybe he's not the best example. But there's a lot of fast guys that don't turn out to be very good. You know what I mean? That's a great call because it is kind of like the hardest part of buying clothes online. Because you go to the store and it's like a mannequin and it's faceless and you picture yourself in it. Online, there's no mannequins.

You just have really hot people wearing the clothes. And you're like, how would this look on me? Well, even the mannequin stuff because the mannequin is built like an NBA player. Right. Like, well. Of course it looks. What's good. Manikin is also kind of hot.

I wish I had that mannequin. I'm getting framed by the mannequin. God damn. Brutal frame. Come out, look at the mirror. You're like, this is nothing like what it looks like. You know what, like, show me a sword that has a mannequin with a beer gut. That's what they need.

I know, right? Show me a mannequin with man boobs. I want to see a mannequin with a little junk in the truck. Should we open a store called beer gut? Real mannequin. I'm sure we would be the first. Real mannequin. This is a real mannequin.

What a real man looks like. Another idea someone's going to steal. Another billion dollar. Just saying. Cut that out. Cut that out. Cut that from the show. Real mannequin.

Wait, what does the store look like? What do we sell? What do you mean what we sell? We sell clothes for dads. It's pretty good. It's pretty good. Can't be in a mall though, because dads don't like going to the mall.

It's attached to a Home Depot. Yes. Oh my God. Those park lots are so big. And there's always a strip mall behind. Yeah. Yeah. It's like whatever the Spirit Halloween is by the Home Depot.

Like, we just do that. It's out by the garden center. Yeah, your first pair of cargo shorts is free. Get you in. And then you're hooked. Do you know I learned that the Garden Center at Home Depot brings in $18 billion of revenue a year, which is more than like the LVMH,

like the luxury like Hermes, Louis Vuitton conglomerate? How much does the NFL make a year? Like that, like 20, like $8, $22 billion. And the flower, the flower makes $18 billion in revenue a year. I can't decide if $1,000. Flowers are the biggest scam in American history or if flowers are really nice. Dude, Valentine's Day. Did you guys get flowers on Valentine's Day?

It is every year. I'm just like, what I'm... Did I get flowers? Like, did you buy flowers for your loved one? Yes, I did. You know what I mean with flowers? Like, I mean, at a wedding, dude, the budget for flowers on the way. It's just like, it's flowers are out of control.

Oh, I was wrong. It's $20 billion. It's $20 billion in the garden section of empty. The NFL being 22 last year. Is there a worst bang for your budget? than flowers. They would be dead in a week. Dude, Jackie's Valentine's flowers who are downstairs, I'm still pouring water in them.

They're actually cooked, but they're so dead. They're like starting to smell bad. I paid so much money for those things. I will not throw them away. It's like there's no worse bang for your buck than fucking flowers, even though in the moment, tremendous bang for your buck. Oh, yeah. Like it hits so hard, but depreciates so quickly. It's like a car. The second you drive it off the line, it's fucking ruined.

Right. Dude, email us about flowers. Ring your Fantasy Football, Gmail. What can we change? What can we use instead of flowers that would be more useful? Like a little step ladder for in the home? That seems pretty useful. You're using that all the time.

You get your wife a step ladder? You're going to get your wife a step ladder for every thing, every Valentine's. My point, no, I'm obviously not going to do that. My point is like, what could we replace that's more actually useful and will last more than a week? Is it about the flowers or is it about the gesture? Because if you had a garden in your backyard that had beautiful flowers and on Valentine's, day, all you had to go do was go to the backyard, pick a nice bouquet, and hand it to your wife. Does that hit as hard?

Probably not. Well, did you grow them or did she? If you're cutting her flowers, then no. If you grew the garden, that's more meaningful. But if she just did all the work and you went out and plucked them and made a little bouquet. Certainly that. But even if you just have a, if you're just like a gardener and you just go to the backyard

and give your wife flowers every Valentine's Day from the backyard, I don't know if it hits as hard. Yeah. It's about going out of your way and spending the money and like the gesture, the thought. Emails if you know. I think, I don't know. I don't know what we'll.

We'll have a good alternative at Manikin. We're going to sell some great stuff at Manikin. Real Manikin. We're going to sell. We'll have a whole section for, you know what? Instead of an express checkout, like the supermarket, 12 items of less, we're going to have a you forgot what day it is thing. Like you forgot it's your wife's birthday.

You forgot it's your anniversary. And like you're going to have an express line for men who are like on our system. I really need this very. quickly. Yeah, we'll sell cheap flowers and what's nice is then on the bill it'll say Home Depot. So the wife won't really think that your last second panic buying some flowers. Trader Joe sells flowers very reasonable price because it's like a loss leader for them. It's like the roast chickens. Also, I'll let Trader Joe's produce. I feel like 48 hours gone. It's not the strength. It's affordable because it's like already halfway through its life cycles. They bought it from

the other stores. Yeah. It's like grocery outlet too. Anyway, other combine guys were definitely the first people to go from this to Dylan Theanaman, which is Theanmen or Teanman? Thienaman I thought it was. It's the yeah, it's The Anaman, the safety from Oregon. Theeman. This guy is the man. Yeah.

I know I've talked a lot about Caleb Downs from Ohio State, but Dekai, I want you to cook with Dylan Theateman here because the safety from Oregon, I feel like he's also going to be like a first run pick and maybe a top 20 pick. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's looking like that. So first of all, I really like the tape. I mean, he's one of those guys that kind of plays all over the field. They can play him in the deep half.

They can play him in the slot. Overhang, you know, to a fact, a linebacker, he's really instinctive. He has good ball skills. There's good ball production there in terms of picks and just showing his ability to anticipate where the ball is going. He, rangy, good tackler. There's, there's very few things I don't like about him. And he's any, and then he went and did this at the combine way.

He ran a four three, five, 40, 97th percentile, 41 inch vert, 95th percentile for safeties. So the athleticism, it just matches everything that you saw on the tape. Yeah, I love this guy. I think he has like top 15 potential. I, in fact, the team picking at 15 is, or I guess it's the Buccaneers. I was thinking the Vikings are picking at 18. I had him go into the Vikings. I think he could even go higher than that too. Dude, I think Dylan Thieneman is phenomenal. Honestly, he reminds me. I think he's Kirkland brand like Minkin Fitzpatrick. I think he's fantastic. I think that he can do so many different things on defense. And again, it's what we were saying before of like, you need to be able to do everything.

And I actually think playing the Lions is actually maybe a good, like, instructive point of like, imagine if you're playing the Lions, you need a guy, get you a man who can do both. Can you, the obvious thing is like, can you beat Sam Laporte on a block as a tight end, but then also cover Sam Laporta? But then the real question is, if you're lined up in a Monra, maybe they want to double Jameson Williams, can you guard a Monra, St. Brown? And if a Monra sets a pick and then they switch you into James and Williams, can you can you tackle James and Williams at a crosser?

So it's like can you beat a tight end on a block? Can you cover a tight end? Can you keep a... Maybe you're not going to stop James and Williams from getting a mesh route, but can you tackle him so James and Williams is not gone. He can do all this stuff. And I think this is what I mean with,

can you be a B at everything? I think the enemy is like a super modern defender. Yeah, it's like in the NBA. It's like you want guys who can switch one through five. Yes. Basically now like you can just switch on every screen and it doesn't matter. You'll be able to match up well.

And I think, And that's the thing we were saying. All those tweeners, I just think they were kind of early players. Like, like those guys like Isaiah Simmons. Even Minka, like all those guys are more valuable now. And this is what the league needs. So I don't know. I think life is time.

I think the, the end of mid kid is amazing. D.K., you mentioned 97th percentile 40R dash among safeties. And then he was in the 95th percentile in the vertical jump for safeties, which again, just incredibly explosive player. So, and also just look good during the drills and everything. Smooth. I think he was fantastic. But, yeah.

He's the type of. guy you don't have to take off the field he can cover he can he can he can blitz he can tackle um he shows really good instincts in terms of like his ability his ability to quickly recognize where the play's going and get to get to the ball and get undercut routes things like that he's just really really fun to watch and then he goes out and does this the combine so it's just like checking a lot of boxes i think he could be the second safety there's no world in which he goes above banks probably but he's probably gonna be Caleb banks or Caleb downser sorry yes i meant i meant i meant downs.

And maybe is there a chance he goes above downs? I don't know. I don't probably not just because of the athletic thing. I think safety is going to go higher. This is going to be a whole thing with positional value. But like the whole thing, oh, the idea is that, well, quarterbacks get paid $60 million. So you want one because then you'll have a rookie,

all the rookie draft picks are going to get paid mostly the same. So if the ceiling on a $60 million quarterback, if he's good, that's $60 million value at $14 million salary. But if running backs, the highest one gets paid $14 million, and Jeremiah Love is really good. You're paying him $14 million, so you haven't actually made any surplus value is the idea.

That's the game within the game. So they're like, well, linebackers and centers and you can't take these guys. The flip side that no one talks about is if there's a, you're assuming that the market is perfect. So an example, I think, is Fred Warner from the linebacker from the 49ers. The overall linebacker position is not paid that much.

It's an inside linebacker. Fred Warner is a league is a game-changing player. Right. You could very easily argue that the Niners having Fred Warner on the inside linebacker's salary that if Fred Warner had ever made the open market, he might be worth like $30, $35 million a year. He's probably a tick or two below Miles Garrett in terms of what people would pay Fred Warner to be on their team. And the Niners have had him for half that.

So I think that the thing to remember is, yes, safeties aren't paid that much. But they make everyone better. And so if you're able to get a safety, the back end of that is you're having an elite player and the ceiling, he'll never be paid what he's worth, which is also worth something. So I think you're going to have more safeties, more inside linebackers like the Sunny Stiles.

It's a good linebacker class, tight ends, a lot of these things. I think that it's not as simple as what people make it out to be. I want to go through some other guys that just, there's a lot of guys that just rose in this process. Zachariah Branch, the receiver from Georgia, from USC was the number one.

Tyler Brooke, who friend of the show, covered the Packers for a long time, pointed out that he thinks Zachariah branch is an industry plant. How so? Kind of like, you know, do a leapo or whatever. People are like, where'd this guy come from? You know, Zacharii Branch is just a thirst trap of,

so he's 5'9, 177 pounds, ran a 43540 yard dash, 96 percentile for speed. He was the number one high school prospect as a receiver, five-star receiver, and just USC Georgia that highlights, like the way he moves everything, that is incredible. His name is fucking Zachariah Branch.

And then it's like, well, can he play receiver? Unclear. And yet I feel like he's going to be a second round pick. You know what I mean? It's like, I don't know what to do with him. Is he a gadget player or is he like? That is the question. That is the question.

D.K., it's that time. What's his comp? Oh, man. That's a good question. The only way I can judge a player. The, uh, well, the ultimate like upside comp would be someone like Tyree Kill. Because there's just not a lot of guys his side. He's 5-9-177, but he's so explosive, moves so well, good returner.

But the size thing is a big deal. And then obviously last year at Georgia, if you look at like the distribution of like routes and targets that he had, it was all, you know, behind the line of scrimmage, screens, really easy stuff to kind of just get him the ball in space and he wasn't running a ton of vertical routes. So I think there's just a question of like, can he be a real receiver, run real receiver routes? There was some indication that he could do that at USC, but basically at Georgia, he just was a gadgety guy. So, but I think, I mean, if you watch him play, it's pretty incredible. His speed and explosiveness and just fluidity as an athlete, there's something there that teams are going to take a risk on to kind of see what they can get out of him.

The other receiver that I think really went way up is Jeff Caldwell, the receiver from Cincinnati, who I think was going to be like a third, like a day three pick, fifth, sixth, maybe seven. round player and then he six foot five two hundred sixteen pounds six foot five ran a four three one forty or dash so again one hundredth percentile six five i keep saying that a lot but six foot five and he runs a four three and yeah that's insane and then also 99th percentile burst score which is about explosiveness and it's like he's a real receiver can run rounds um i think this is a guy that went from the sixth round to the third round just from the combine and just it's going to be like a fantasy like under the radar guy where it's like six or five burner actually has a rat tree there there's shades of like the eyes like to sloth thing here where yes if you look

at jeff caldwell's tape there's certainly things that you could like he's a little stiff separation stuff like winning at the catch point all that stuff is is kind of questionable but when you got a guy who's six five two 16 you can run a four three like we could use that in our offense somehow kind of figure out i don't think he's going to get any higher than the third round probably but yeah, you're exactly right. He went from being a, you know, UDFA or late round guy to probably being taken fourth, fifth round and someone trying to like figure out

what they can do with that athleticism. The last one here, and then I want to get to some of the personalities. Well, actually, while we're our receivers, I want to talk about Mackay Lemon, the receiver from USC. Oh, yeah, yeah. I think had a good, he's fine with the choice.

That's like the only thing people are talking about today. I want to maybe the biggest story of the combine. I want to talk to you about his podium. So this went a little bit viral. maybe you saw it, maybe you did. But Mikhail Mennan is receiver from USC. There's a video of a question who's being asked where, you know what, you guys describe it. I'm curious what you guys think.

It is rather unique. It is hard to put into words his behavior and kind of physical movement and eye contact. And it was like he was like, he became a snake. And like, I actually don't know how to describe it. It looks like Zoolander. It's kind of like Zoolander asking an answer a question. He was like, he was like, he was like a human sexual.

Yeah. Like a little like, yeah, sensual almost. It was very intense. So it's like, kind of like doing this. He's like kind of swang back and forth. Like biting his lip. He's like breaking eye contact. Yeah.

I don't know. So bite his lip at us when he's talking, you know? That was a weird moment for me. Because there's a, there's a couple different videos that went around of like a minute, 90 seconds of him talking like that. I was at McCoy Lemon's podium the entire time. time. And it was weird because I think most times the viral videos are kind of out of context. He was like that the entire time. This is in context. All 15 minutes was exactly like that.

And D.K., you have no short term memory anymore. But do you remember that I came back and I was trying to explain it to you and you guys were, you guys, you didn't know what I was trying to say. And I was just like, no, like, you were like, how was, and I was like, yeah, his vibe was, I just didn't know how to describe it. Can't put your finger on it. Yeah. And I, I it was like that the whole time and I like like if he's at lunch with a friend is he like that or dude I couldn't know it was a performance it was a performance dude nervous stoner trying to alpha everybody trying to be really intense maybe I don't also should you put him higher on the board like oh he's he's a psycho or like could argue yeah you could argue this is either a huge red

flag or actually a green look look it's good for a wide receiver you need to be a little fucking crazy. It was, all I'll say is I noticed it immediately and it actually was reaffirming to me that everyone who saw videos of it was also like, what's up with this? Because I came back and I was like, I don't know what to make of this person. This is that thing where it's like, maybe not all press is good press. I don't know what to make of this. That is not the lesson of the last 10 years.

He did an interview. I think I imagine it was like either directly before or directly after that podium appearance with Chris Sam. and Florio, and it was totally normal. I was like, this is like a normal interview. What happened between this time and when he was up on the podium? Oh, he wasn't behaving the same way? No, it felt like a normal interview.

Like, I would watch that interview and come away with nothing. It was basically just, you know. The podiums are tough. I get it, though. The whole set, I don't know if you talked about this. The whole setup at the combine is fascinating. Like, we've been, you just have all these podiums are next to each other, and it's like they're kind of raised,

and then all the reporters kind of gather around and it's like a lot. It's like, I guess people yelling at you the whole time kind of trying to get questions off. McCaughy, McCoy, did you talk to the Steelers? Did you interview the Steelers? And he's like, yes. Like, did you ever even the cults?

Yes. And it's like, everyone's screaming. All they do is just yell, did you meet with this team? Yeah. Tell me about the adversity. Was there adversity? And it's, how did the adversity make you feel?

Did it make you better or worse? And it's a strange setup. It's okay. If it's, if it was just nerves, that is one of the more bizarre reactions to me. I don't know, but he's good. I don't know. It's weird. The bottom line, because you didn't like him as much as I like him.

What's your reaction coming off of this? Like you're confirming like why you didn't like him or what? No. Again, I think of any position group should be weird and kind of like an enigma, it should be a wide receiver. So in that regard, I don't think it's a demerit. If that was my quarterback, I'd be like, I'm not sure about this. Yeah, totally. That is true.

So the, you know, it's funny too. So the McKay-Lemond thing, so he was near Elijah Surratt, the receiver from Indiana. There's Omar Cooper Jr. Elijah Surratt. And Elijah Surratt was so different. He was like very charismatic, very earnest, very, like, happy to talk. And like, um. I don't think I told Craig, Craig.

I told DK this. I don't think I told you this. So Elijah, so at one point, they got asked all these weird questions. So at one point, Elijah Serrat gets asked, what was the first NFL jersey you ever owned? And he goes,

I don't know if I owned it. Oh, yeah, yeah, no. My first NFL jersey was Michael Vick. And everyone kind of puckers a little. And he's like, dude, he's like, I'm from Virginia. Michael Vick's from Virginia. I love Michael Vic.

He was so fun to watch growing up. He was inspiration. Man, Michael Vic was a dog. And we all just could have used any other word. Physically recoil. And I don't. Do you think he had no idea? Is Michael Vick's just the fast guy?

It's the Salad. It's the Paul Newman salad dressing. Yeah, he was a child. He was like he was awesome and Madden. Yeah, yeah. There's a chance. That Madden came out years before he was even bored. I heard like the same time.

But that was, that was like, honestly, the highlight. So that's going on over there to my right. And then Mackay Lemon's, was there just like an audible? Mackay Lemon is like slithering up to the stage. I feel so much less crazy now that everyone's locked in on this. I don't like, the only thing I can think of is like a serpent. You're so right that the eyes locked. It was like that the whole time.

The eyes locked in, but the head's like a boxer. I don't know. He was serpentine. Serpentine. His route running is serpent. It was like a sexual serpent. Sexual serpent. I want to go through some other losers from the combine.

Well, actually, wait, wait, before the podiums, Diego Pavia, the quarterback from Vanderbilt, the guy who lost the heisman that went to a club in New York and posted on his Instagram story basically like, fuck for Dana Mendoza or whatever. They asked him like, are you going to chill? He's a crazy guy. He's like, are you going to chill? And he laughed. And Diego Pavi was like, you know, my coach just told me you're your, you're, your friend. frontal lobe doesn't really finish developing until you're 25. He's like, I think I got like a year left till I'm fully baked.

This is like a Hail Mary defense. He's like, I'm still growing, technically. My brain isn't fully developed yet, guys. Thought that was so funny. The other one, I kind of respect it, yeah. Losers from the combine, I wanted to mention Aaron Glenn, the coach of the Jets, who in one of the more two relatable things was called. thought on the, they do the camera angle of all the guys in their suites watching and Aaron

Glenn's asleep and then, he looks like Michael Sarah in Superbad when he gets caught staring at, what's her name's boobs? Then he kind of wakes up and he kind of looks up at the ceiling. Like that was Aaron Glenn. He fucking knew it immediately did. Better if he had not waking up. Like him waking up made it so much worse. I couldn't quite tell he was exactly before. Yeah. It was the reaction. It could have been looking down.

The cold plate concert. Well, that's like, I feel like, you know, yeah. Yes, it was. He was like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. If they would have just, like, stayed still, they would have been fine, but it was the reaction that got him. Yes. That happens all the time with Trump. It's like, is Trump asleep in this meeting?

And then it's like, well, if he didn't, you technically, his eyes could be down. You don't really know. Yeah. Dude. That was funny. That was, that was, the other, I wanted to throw out one of those. You should just put on those really cheesy glasses that have just eyeballs in them. Yeah.

Just sit there with those. The nose and the mustache. Yeah, the groucho marks. Yeah. The other loser I have here for the combine is objective reality. Okay. So some of these guys just... We're in a post-truth era, hyphids.

We're in a post-truth era, and it's extended to the NFL Combine. So Carnell Tate, the receiver from Ohio State, ran a 452-40R-Dash. No, no one cares. Pukinakua ran a 457. Have you ever thought Pukinikua is slow? Like Jackson Smith and Jimba ran a 452. I'll interject. Some people care.

They probably shouldn't care. But some people do care. Sure. Brandon Bean, the GM of the Bills, was on the broadcast with Daniel Jeremiah as a guest in the announcing booth. And when Cardinal Tait ran a 4-5-2, and Brandon Bean goes, oh, he's so slow. I bet no one should take him for like 19, 20 picks, no one take them. And like, no one-

To be clear, he was joking. Yeah, he was joking. Yeah, well, yeah, you're right. With him, we have to clarify. But they're, Cardinal Tate's going to go high. And then Adam Schifter posts, I, this is Ohio State receiver, Cardinal Tate, a potential top-ton pick, was timed by several NFL executives in GMs on Saturday with a 40 time in the range of 445 to 447.

And then Schaefter explains that there's register official times, but teams also do their own hand timing. And those managements were much lower than the 452. It is interesting. Do your own timing. Yeah, do your own research. Should we trust the lasers? Nothing matter.

Or your hand. Ane combine and do it yourself. Squint and eyeball it as he passes the line. It's your thumb, which is perfect. As opposed to the light on. This is like straight out of politics. Like agents are realizing that you can just text thought like or influencers essentially and just make up whatever you want. Adam Schaefter was carrying water for, uh, was it Ruben Baines agent or whoever?

Ruben is like under 31 inch arms. He's like, you know, I heard it's over 32. There's a three inch, there's a three inch variance by the way that some people measure. So maybe he actually has three inch longer arms. It's like, Jesus Christ, none of this shit matters. Dude, I, I, I, I'm just going to read the exact one. Sheffter had some context on measurements taken through the week. Measurements sometimes vary for players.

To that end, at least two NFL teams had Ruben Bayon Jr.'s arms measured north of 32 inches. It's just carrying water. He's just carrying water. But the 40-time one bothers me more because it kept happening where it's like, oh, this guy ran a 4-4-6. This laser-time thing is actually false. His agent had 4-38, though.

Oh, his dad had a 4-2. You shouldn't even be allowed to hand time the 40. It should only be the laser. There should be no one else allowed to have a stopwatch. And it's so annoying because they're like, well, we have to do it for historical data because we didn't have the old guys to the hand time. I'm like, you know what? You're right. You are faultless process where you sit there and just hand time with your fucking thumb, 200 different people like you are birth.

I just, you know what? The other thing is just, and this is to echo something Craig has been saying this whole time is now teams have GPS data of how fast these guys are running in games. None of the shit matters. These guys running track means nothing. After we spent the entire show talking about why. I know. But yeah. Well, I understand that it means generally,

holistically, once you add it to the rest of the events, how athletic a guy is. If he runs a fast 40, that is a factor to weigh. What it means is what... When Jeff Caldwell is some random receiver from Cincinnati, six, five, and runs a four-three. You're like, I guess we have to go watch 10 Jeff Caldwell games. Yes, which is good.

But like when the play... If you already know a player is good, the 40 is irrelevant. But if you want to feel crazy, too. We have to remember this for our pro days in two weeks when they start doing the pro days. That this one is Catch days. Dane Bruegler at the athletic who does amazing work posted

this. So I think he was talking about last year. There were he's, Dane Bruegler, so there were 46 offensive linemen who got measured at the combine. Or sorry, no, there are 46 guys who went to the combine that were then re-measured at the pro day because they go to the pro day at the college

and they do it on campus and they do all the same stuff. Dane Brugler said 43, of the 46 guys measured longer arms at their pro day than the college. So just keep that in mind when we get these fucking pro day numbers. 43 of the 46 guys, their arms grew. That's incredible.

This is the equivalent of like my girlfriend goes to another school. I was a legend back at home. Yeah. It's the dumbest thing ever. Could have gone D1 if coach didn't hate me. Yeah. DK., any of their stuff from the combine overall?

There's like a lot of guys fast, a lot of guys big. Yeah, I mean, we talked about already the arm-length stuff with Ruben Bay and Cassius Howell might matter, it might not matter. Shortest arms for any first round edge rusher, basically, would be either Rubin Bain or Cassius Howell. Yeah, when we're talking like zeroth percentile, that's worth talking about, I suppose. Jermond McCoy from Tennessee didn't test, which is a little bit of a red flag because he was, I want to say he was injured last January. December, 2004.

Oh, December. And he had a, he had an ACL, Jermad McCoy had an ACL surgery in January of 2024. So it was about 13 months ago. And then he didn't run at the combine, which is all in one of the same way. Legitimately could push him down a little bit, even though people, I think, believe he is one of the better corners in his class. Like the health thing is a huge issue. And they say he's going to do pro day stuff that. Do you care about that?

Like, is that something where you're like, yeah, like he's coming back from an injury. You don't want him to get hurt at the thing. Like give him the extra month and like let him be good at the pro day. And then teams don't care. I mean, if he if he goes out and does his pro day and there's absolutely no restrictions and he looks fast and explosive, then yeah, that's fine. And then you can look. at it. But if he goes out and he only does two or three things, no cutting, no changing direction, then you start to be like, hmm, also what's, what's going on here? Part of me wonders if, like,

the issue also is if you're coming off an ACL tear, when Jeremiah love the Notre Dame running back runs a four three, six, 40. And it's like, um, I can't run anymore. I, for my hamstring or whatever. Like, everyone knows he's lying, so no one even reports it. But if Jermad McCoy is like, oh, I can't finish everything, I'm hurt. People are like, what? Yeah. So like, honestly, that might be it, too. They're like, we can't actually bow out of anything. So yeah, the combine, we have, we're in the thick of it now. We're in about to get, like a week from now, we're going to start free agency. That's going to be insane.

We're going to cover a ton of free agency. And we're going to learn a lot about these teams, right, Craig? Going to learn a ton. And then, yeah, like the draft season, like really gets going. Combine into free agency and then teams, you really see who, what teams need what. You start to figure out everything. Did you guys have fun in indie? How was your indie experience?

How many combines have, that was my, my second combine. What about what was it for you guys? I think I've been going since 2012 or 2013 so yeah six or seven for me into a few it's always six seven D.K how has it changed is it better now worse now slower so when I the first year that I went the first year or two that I went it was actually in the stadium there was a side area in the oh you mean the radio row area where they do all those interviews with the coaches and players right now it's in the convention center it was in Lucas Oil Stadium in a gigantic like the size of a bowing hanger is where they do the combine now and when i started

it was basically in like a little room off the concourse of the stadium um so that's very different um there's just more people there obviously in that and i think there's just more structure to everything more like the way that they put people through the all the podiums and all that um i think the we couldn't you couldn't get into the stadium before to watch stuff unless you're part of the Pro Football Writers Association, I think. There's little things like that that are different. And then also, I think just in the years, teams and coaches have kind of figured out like what bars to go to to avoid media.

And in the old days, everybody was kind of in the same place. Like, you'd be able to go talk to Sean Payton or whoever at high velocity, which is in the J-Dub Marriott. And I think that's a little different now. You don't see that quite as often. I agree. I think four years ago, we knew where to go to a bar and there were like 11 head coaches in the bar.

And now it's like, you know. They just go to some private party, you know, they go to some, you know, restaurant where they have a private room or something. I mean, that's, I feel like that's across like in Hollywood even. It's like back in the day, you could go see a celebrity like at a bar having a good time. And now it's like there's no shot. They're going to be at a private social club, some private home or something like that. It's probably mainly because of social media.

Nobody wants to be caught on camera anymore. But yeah, it was the same thing. We were talking about in Indy, like, there's this bar prime where at night you go. And like it used to be, and again, I wasn't there. This is what you guys told me. Like, you could see Doug Peterson over there, Randy Moss over there. And you were just like having beers with your, with your coworkers. And there was athletes and coaches and everybody all around media people.

And now it's a little bit like, oh, there might be one person in this entire bar that I recognize. The first time I went to that bar you're talking about in Indy, like the first. first year I walk in. And you know when sometimes you have to like squeeze through to someone like to get past like his tight area? And it was like Sean Payton and the entire Saints coaching staff where the people had to walk through. And then I get there and I like, you know, you're like there's someone else trying to get a drink too. And it's like, you know, at a bar and sometimes you're like, oh, who's the bartender going to go to first. And it was me and the other guy was Michael Thomas who had just had 149 catches and like one offensive player of the year or whatever he did. And then I'm like,

his card is looks so much heavier than my credit card. And it's like, that's the guy at the bar. look around. Then I'm like, I'm, I get my drinks and go to the, like, you're like running Mike Tomlin is the guy. Like, it's crazy. Yeah, yeah. So it is fun. And you still have that. You turn the quarter and Adam Schaft just talking to some GM. Like again, like a few years ago, we got dinner on the table next to this is Mike Tomlin. That is the fun part of the combat and everything. But I agree that it's, yeah, the separation away from the mere mortals is happening. Well, because the nightlife, I feel like I can understand. There's private parties, agencies, throw parties, things like that. But dinner, I feel like you still can,

see people at dinner because there's only so, so many, like, nicer steakhouses there. We went to St. Elmo, which is kind of the famous steakhouse in Indianapolis, Hyfitz made, to his credit, because it's hard to get a reservation. In advance, he made four straight nights of reservations for eight at St. Elmo at like 730, every single night. And we went three nights in a row. We went Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. People are going to think I'm crazy.

Can I defend myself? I don't think you're crazy. I think it was good to do in advance. Oh, good. No one's going to think I'm crazy. It's like stockpiling picks. You know, you can trade them in the future. Yeah, I was like, oh, we'll update these later.

And then we just never fucking updated the plan so that every day at 6 o'clock we'd be like, what are we doing? And we're like, oh, right, we only have this one reservation. So we kept going back. And I was dying. Also, the menu is quite limited, actually. It's pretty much like steak. You're having shrimp and then steak.

Shrimp, steak and cheesy sides. And I remember. And cheese cake for dinner for bright dessert. Which is good. On day three, I remember the waiter came up. And I was like, I can't eat another steak. I'm going to die if you to steak. And I was like,

I see you have a Caesar salad and I see you also sell a chicken breast. I was like, can I get a chicken Caesar salad? He's like, we don't do that. I said, okay. And I was like, well, is the Caesar big enough for an entre? Can I just get a Caesar salad? And he just looked at me in the eyes and was like, I would not do that if I were doing it.

I was like, I guess I'll get in a steak. He's like an eight ounce filet, please. He bullied you? Yeah, he did. My cholesterol's up 50%. I know. Seriously, dude. The, whatever, what is it?

The horse radish sauce? It's just coursing through my veins right now. Yeah. That was a little bit much. I'm a passenger princess when it comes to restaurant reservations. I'm just like, I'll go wherever the reservations are. We're just car and D-K around L.A.

Or I'm to D&D. If I had to quibble, maybe next time we do other restaurants. Yeah, next time we'll check. Hyphids is choking a fucking dot. I appreciate Hyphitz's. Are you okay, man?

Hyphidst just got wrong piped. Is he going to make it? Is he going to make it? I appreciate Hyphitz looking forward. and taking into, you know, the initiative on that, but... Also, it's a good look to be... He's dead? It's a nice to have.

He might be dead. Because then he also made it for eight. You guys keep going fun. Do we need to call 911? I don't know. I think he just went out of the rock pipe. Who among us has dealt with that? He just left.

But it was good because Hyvitz made it for eight people every night. And so it was like, okay, we can like bring our coworkers. We can invite other people from the media. It was like an open invitation every night. night. It looks like every night we went to dinner with the party planning committee over here. We got dinner with McShae and mensch one night. It was fun. But yeah, I was, I was ready to Craig, I hate to tell you this, but the other, the other restaurant that we've done historically there is Fogna Chow, which is just pure meat. Two years ago, Solek did the double Fogo

to Chow. He went to dinner with us at Fogo to Chow and then just stayed as we left and then went and had Fogo to Chow with other people. He's holding court. So like it wasn't even like eating food. So he went from the green card to the red card back to the green. And he was actually questioning because at Fokkao Chow, I think you just get the all you can eat buffet. And he was like, do I need to get another all you can eat buffet or since I didn't actually leave the restaurant? Can I just keep eating? What was your guys's favorite celebrity sighting?

And by that I mean like athlete or whatever. Hold on I'm going to die again. Is there anybody you enjoyed seeing? High Fitz, Typhids. He's turning off his camera. What is going on? I don't know. He's still breathing.

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what that was. What happened there? I have no idea. The difference is in our show, every other show is we're going to, we're going to show everything.

Yeah. That was horrific. That's a good question. Did you laugh at something or was it just wrong pipe? I was so appalled that you got a chicken seizure salad at Elmose that I just, my body. On day three? My body couldn't,

no, I revolted. No, I don't know what just happened to me. Faith's subciting on Indy. Favorite? Oh, Big Dom. Seeing Big Dom is so funny to me. I don't know why. Always at the ready.

Seeing Big Dom just follow Nick Siriani. Because, like, first of all, it implies, like, if you didn't know anything about any context of anything, you would kind of assume Nick Siriani was like a mafia leader. Like, that's the only other, I don't know who else gets followed. Like, honestly, you know what Big Dom looks like? Have you ever seen how Big Messi's bodyguards are? Like, they're the biggest people in the world. Or just like the people who, like, follow Leo, like, Lionel Messi or?

people. I don't know who else has anyone follow them around like Big Dom. He's got one, he's got the Italian chain on a choker and then a lower Jesus piece below him. He's kind of got like a sweatsuit vibe. Oh, everything's brand new clothing. It's insane. He's unlike anyone I've ever met. I feel like you can't have Big Dom in your employment unless your team is good. Oh, if the Brown said Big Dom, it would be a joke. It won't work. Yeah, that wouldn't go over a lot. If Stefanski was walking around with Big Dom as every year, they go three and 13, three and four. It's just, it's, it's, it's, it's, It doesn't work. You need to be good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What was your, what did I miss while I was gone, dying? We were just talking about Fogo to Chow. Who is Craigson? Who is your biggest? Fogo to Chow. That system, we don't talk. If you haven't been to Fogo to Chow, they've never been. Oh, my, it's unlike any other restaurant.

It's like, there's all these unwritten rules. So you have to hold up a little card that has a green or red on. If you, they come over and they have like all this crazy meat. And you hold up a green if you want more meat. They just bring by meats. And you just flip your card. Yeah, yeah. And they shave off some meat for you.

Maybe they just, they have like these little skewers of meat and they'll put some, they'll put some meat on your plate whenever you want meat. It's there at the ready. And the appetizers are like just at a buffet, but then they're coming around with meat constantly. It's a crazy system. But we should, we should figure out I have a fogo pod. Hmm.

What do you mean? I don't know. But the green, I can't tell if the, the, the stoplight system is perfect. Yeah. It's like how in Uber's now you can say like I don't want to be spoken to. Oh, right. Yeah, like, which is a little weird. Yeah.

Yeah, I never hit that, but it's weird to think telling the driver like, don't talk to me. Maybe it's helpful. I don't know. Yeah. It's like how some people when they get their haircut, some people like the barber to talk to them. Some people don't. Don't want the chit chat. I don't mind the talk.

The chit chat. I also have, I've had the same barber for like five years, so I know her now. But I do I do kind of get sometimes just want to like unplug, get a haircut, not have to chat about your day. Where are you out with that? I never hit I never hit any of the preferences on on Uber it's okay to chat me up oh he goes to Uber yeah yeah I don't I don't have haircuts anymore unfortunately I'm really jealous of people that have haircuts because I did like to go and I did like to enjoy or I did enjoy going to get my haircut before oh really yeah I I I love the feeling right after a haircut but like going to a haircut

oh there's like a certain ASMR thing to it it's this is something that I think a lot of people have where it's like the the buzzer noise next to your ears like calming for some reason I don't know. I like it. My favorite celebrity was, remember when we left St. Elmo? I think it was night two. And we were walking on the street. It was cold. And there was this really tall, lanky white guy in front of us. And Hyvitz and I both looked at each other.

And I was like, is that fucking Bob Myers? And he's like, I think that's Bob Myers. And I like kind of ran alongside of him to catch a profile shot to confirm it was Bob Myers. GM of the Warriors for everyone who's an obsessed. The former GM of the Warriors, who now works for the commanders. I didn't even know who that was. Yes, but I was like 95% sure that was Bob Myers. That was cool.

He's very tall. We also did the handshake combine, which we'll have soon. We have been discussing for years how men have too many ways to greet one another. And it honestly just came out of every time we saw each other, you do the DAP. Sometimes it goes great. Sometimes it goes terribly. You meet someone new. You shake a lot of hands at the Combine.

You don't know these people. And the DAP can go in any direction. So we thought we should put that on camera. We're going to have coming to a theater near you, the Handshake Combine. shout out Doug Kite and Andrew Callahan. Yeah. Yeah. Or any other stuff from the Combine?

The weather was actually nice. Yeah, it was like 25 degrees when we flew in and it was like 60 when we flew out. Hell yeah. Also, I would like to just point out, give me 10 seconds here to find it. We did an episode with Mensch and McShay. And on the episode, it was a bonus episode that came out on Friday. on the episode we just talked about if I could throw for 20 yards in an end up. Yeah.

Are you looking up the poll? We voted on it. The fans voted. The fans weighed in. The people. The people have spoken. 56% believe I could do it. All right, fine. There's one person will let settle this. Do you, will you text Sean McVeyan ask him? I haven't spoken

to him in three years. Man, maybe I should, though. Send him the video. I mean, like, how busy is you really right? now. I can probably text him, right? How busy could he be? I mean, he would probably respond to me now. He didn't go to combat. He's probably not that thing. He's got a four-month-old baby or whatever. I'd have to, I don't know, I hope he's the same number. You could do the meme where you're like, I sent Sean McVeigh a text to ask him about this thing. And here's what he said. How'd you get

how'd you get this number? Leave me alone. Well, the biggest problem is if I send him the clip, he's going to say, why did you say Shanahan could scheme you up to 20 yards and not mean? Oh, that's actually very fair. Well, because I think McVeigh could scheme me up to 30. That is a great sneaky problem. You said Kyle Shannon could do it, not him. Maybe you just tell him you think you can't, and then he just gives you this detailed breakdown of how he'd do it.

They're looking for a backup. Craig, if you want to cover all bases, how many yards do you think Cliff could scheme you up for? No. No. You're not doing that. No. Okay.

Matt Nagy? Nagy, I'd be dead. first play the game cut and hashed yeah all right the only email i want to read here is it's text from roger sherman our former ringer colleague yeah rod the show and wanted to point out we're talking about mo alley cox let me mention we always talk about nominative determinism and he's well we talked about him because molly cox has the largest hands at NFL history and roger said how did you have that whole conversation without mentioning his name is mo cox fair god we really missed that is that is that why he goes by Mo Alley, you think?

Because Mo Cox is... 100 million percent. That's why he's a full name guy. You can't just walk around and be like... Well, no, his last name is Allie Cox. Yeah. Yes, but at the very least, it's a helpful buffer. Yeah.

At a minimum. It's a minute to have. Yeah. It's a, it's the Spider-Man meme. I can't believe it was right there. Yeah. So the biggest hands ever is guys names Mo Cox.

So, yep. Okay. all right thank you dk thank you k thank you k thank you km thank you boo thank you carlos thank you allison thank you everyone for listening emails of your fantasy football at gmail what did we ask for it was like valentine's ideas maybe oh it was the things to sell at manic yeah replacing flowers and what we should sell at our real mannequin store uh other than flowers to gifts to get your wife that aren't so freaking expensive and die associated as flowers uh send us those we should probably just get got got flowers real men shop at real mannequin

Also, if the women listening have an idea of what you'd want instead of flowers or can argue why you do want flowers, actually would love to hear it. I mean, we're going to keep buying them. But like, we're just curious. We're just asking questions here. And then, yeah, so we're going to, I mean, next week, free agency, we're never an other episode this week. And then free agency happens. And it's pretty, yeah, a lot of players, it's going to change teams. So we're going to learn a lot.

There you go. Thank you, Lord. Lord. Thank you, Polo and Pan. Craig's peeps. Nice. Who? We were at the Marriott.

lobby before we left for the airport, I think. And there was like a French song playing. And I told D.K. that there's a cool French band called Polo and Pan that I think you would like. Did you listen to him? Confirmed, I did. Yeah, I did. They're cool, right? Very cool. The music in the hotel lobby was crazy.

I like EDM more than you guys, and it was very loud EDM at late. It was extremely loud, which I kind of liked. You know what? I got to have a bone to pick with coffee shops. Uh-oh. Okay, go. Because this might be my age showing. I'm a 31-year-old man now. I'm not a young buck. I'm in my, I'm in my, the end of my prime,

post-prime. Still in my prime, post-prime. However, Liz and I, in the morning, sometimes we'll go walk and get coffee. Dude, it's fucking 8 a.m. 8.30 in the morning, on a Tuesday, on a Friday, on a Sunday, doesn't matter. And they are blaring EDM music. Or you're going to do a bagel shop at 9 a.m. And they are blaring music. I'm like, one, it doesn't have to be EDM. The kids, the teens will still buy your bagel if you're playing nice normal music and also it doesn't have to be at a 12 out of 10 on the volume. Make it normal.

It would be more enjoyable. There is one place we go to that does a good job and they play normal music at a normal volume and it's lovely. I think this is a deeper thing than you even realize because I think one of the biggest things that makes a differentiator in service jobs is whether you're allowed to DJ

or whether you have to listen to the same 12 songs on repeat. Because if you've ever worked a job, whatever it is where you had to listen to like the same 12 songs every day. It makes you like 20% more likely to quit any given time. If I hear that Michael McDonald's song one more time, I swear to God. So Paul Rudd and a 40 year old virgin. I would rather the coffee shop allow each person working. It's rotating where each day a different person gets to just have the, have ox the entire day.

I'd be fine with that just because it's something. but he's actual personal, not just, it's EDM for eight hours. And it's 8 a.m. Enjoy it. But what kind of EDM that, like, what kind of EDM do you hate? I actually like EDM, but do I want it at 8 a.m at a coffee shop? Is it just too loud for you? Time and place.

It's too loud. It's also like not the proper, when you think of waking up in the morning and having coffee, is EDM what you associate with that? Is that the right mood? What's the perfect coffee playlist? I don't know. It's just a smooth jazz. Sure, you could do this.

that, but like, play like, I don't know. Maroon 5. Play like early Maroon 5. He wants Teddy swims. He wants losing control. Play songs about Jane. I would love to walk into a coffee shop playing songs about Jane. Are we going to play this at Real Manikin? You could literally play the song Sunday morning on Sunday morning at a coffee shop. That would be lovely. We walk by this one bagel place. That's very popular, amazing bagels. It came from New York. Pop-up bagels. Blaring music. At 8 a.m. Like, what are we doing?

That's where I was questioning what Hafeus was saying. Like, is it that store policy to play that? Or is it just? It has to be. No, it has to be. I'm sure that's like a part of their business strategy or something. It's weird. Well, is it a chain or is it like a local?

Because the chain is different than I think like a random local. Well, it's now, are you not aware of Papa Begos? It was like a phenomenon in New York and now they're expanding. Now it rings a bell. They had a little truck with some celebrity was in it. And I'm really going to sell this Instagram. The first one to open in LA opened down the street for me.

So we go sometimes, but it's just always just blasting like fucking Avici, who I love deeply. But not just rock, you know, not an ADM. Time and a place. Who did I see in the pop-up?

And it's not even Avici. It's some new crap. The other food thing that just came to mind was we, for lunch, I think three days during the week, we went to Shapiro's deli in, and that place was bomb. Really good deli.

Some extremely good sandwiches. I got a kid. carrot cake one day for lunch. I didn't eat the whole thing for myself. They had a bunch of cake, cookies. Carrot cake is kind of like a KSD if you think about it. No.

I only had it one time. Do you think dessert should be allowed at lunch? I think dessert at lunch is crazy. It's kind of crazy. It's crazy. And like, you know, and they, Shapiro's, if you go to Indianapolis, go to Shapiro's.

Does a cookie count as dessert? I guess it kind of does. Yes. I'll eat a cookie after lunch. You love dessert though. I think you're a dessert menu. and they're not dessert menu people. I eat desserts when I'm away from my home.

Same. I don't eat dessert when I'm home, but dessert at a restaurant is a delight. Yeah. It, I, yeah, it is. But the, I'll eat a fucking cookie after having a sandwich. I don't care.

I'm actually back in on dessert at lunch. Lunch was crazy, though, because they put the cake first, and we show up really hungry. A cake at lunch is kind of fucking weird. It's insane. I don't think of a cake. Because like there's so many cakes there.

That's also an unspoken part of work is when people bring cake in, for someone's birthday. But now there's just cake everywhere. And it's like, when can you eat cake? At work, 11 in the morning? That's a holiday food cake. Especially for lunch.

Like, I already am not the biggest lunch guide because I think lunch bobs you down. You know how I feel about your lunch takes. You just, you've all, we have all both worked at the ringer now for like 10 years. And I love the ringer, but the ringer office has never exactly been overwhelmed with the nearby lunch options in walkable areas.

Lunch is amazing. When you're here a good lunch spot, like Shapiro's, imagine if you could walk from the ringer office to Shapiro's and India. You'd feel differently about lunch. You would. I would have to take it now. I would have to take a C-Sia. Exactly.

I can't eat that every day. I can't have a pastrami sandwich for lunch. It's a jelly. You get whatever you want. Everything is heavy. It's a fucking cake with lunch. Look, I'm American. I can't control myself.

The cake is right there. It's the first thing on the, like you go in this little line and they have a whole, like, display case of everything. The cake is literally the first. thing. I like lunch foods, but I think that we eat too much for lunch. I think you should have breakfast, light snacking in the middle of the day, and then dinner. But you also love Mediterranean food and Mediterranean culture. The whole thing's built around lunch. Not the way we live in America. Should we have siesta's? Yeah, I mean, that would be nice. That's a great. It's a great

Hell yeah. I just think lunch, it's funny. I saw there was recently an interview, an interview magazine with Larry David and his daughter, and they had a back and forth about lunch. And I've never felt more seen. I just pulled it up. His daughter, her name is Kazi.

She said, lunch is a huge waste of time. And Larry says, and Larry says, it's a terrible waste of time. And Kazzy says, ruins the whole day. And then Larry says, it's ridiculous. Ruins the whole day. And then Larry says, it's ridiculous. Look, I think if it's like a weekend and you want to go out to lunch you different

It's fine. But like middle of the workday, I'm just hammering like a 1,500 calorie sandwich. I can't do that. What do you eat for lunch? Did you eat for lunch? Just snack? Yeah, light stuff. There is almost like an element of day drinking until having like a big lunch.

You like actually need to sleep. It's more just like lunch is fine. But like if you get a light salad, that's different than like, hey, let's go get burgers for lunch. Like I can't do that. I used to get in my old job, I used to get like a act like a. an entire big burrito from Chipotle. And then I would be in an absolute just fucking coma in the second half of the day. It's definitely me getting older because I can no longer bounce back from like a heavy meal.

A hundred percent. When I was 20, I could have like a cheese steak for lunch and be fine. Now if I had a cheese steak, I'd be knocked on my ass. Dude, if we've ever sounded sleepy in this show, it's one of us probably just ate right before the free. It reminds me of like the snakes when they eat something huge and then they have to digest it for two weeks. they don't eat anything else. That was why Mikai Lemon was like that at the podium. Yeah, you need to digest.

Yeah. Serpentine. Yeah. So look, I like lunch, but you just got to go light. You got to go light lunch. Emails at Ringer Fantasy Football at Gmail. Like a caissadia? Casidia? Yeah, that's lightish, right?

That's why I avoid putting chicken in it. Why do you digest everything? You know what 15 years you never once were like, I'm going to put chicken in a cassidia? But you've never made it that way for yourself. Right, because I prefer it without. D.K. was trying to convince Mench at dinner.

We told him about the Ksadia thing. Uh-oh. And then because remember we were talking about Mel Kuyper and how he eats pumpkin pie around it. And we were talking about how crazy that was. And the Kee Kui was sort of like, well. The Kuiper thing came up because of my Kessidiya thing. Yes.

We're like, what's worse. And we're like, man, that's so crazy what Mel Kuiper does. Dikis is like, yeah, but it's actually totally different than what I do. It's not the same. Me thinks he got a protest too much. It honestly kind of was like an epiphany moment for me. I was like, fuck. I'm like eating a,

I'm eating a pumpkin pie every day. Just another draft. People are looking at me. He's, you know, Mel's starting his day with dessert every day, so it's a little different, but.

Do you think he'd, I would love to know Mel Kiper's opinion on lunch after he eats his pumpkin pie for breakfast. He's like, I need something light. I got to say, during the holidays, pumpkin pie for breakfast is fucking awesome.

Oh, dude. Thanksgiving when you can just eat pie at whatever time. Oh, my God. Pie, I think pies, as I get older, I appreciate pie more and more. I'm way,

I'm pie over cake by my. I think high level cakes, the ceiling is incredible, but I think most cakes, I think the average pie, like a store-bought pie from a supermarket, whatever, it's just so much better than a cake.

I think a homemade pie is better than a... Hard disagree. Pie is incredible. That's crazy talk to me. I love pie. Wildberry pie. I think pie maybe should be more common as a breakfast item.

I have this shit, like every pastry is unhealthy. And you can have that for breakfast and you're eating pancakes with syrup. Serip is just, Exactly. Like,

I can have a blueberry muffin. That's just fucking cake. Why can't I have a slice of a pot? Craig, you are so, God, you're, this is, this is. You can't,

Craig. No, you can do it. Because you know why? Breakfast is a bunch of sugar disguised to look like other stuff. It is cereal. It's just sugar.

It's hiding. It's like, oh, it's like tricks. No, it's fucking sugar. At least cookie crisps has the balls to be like, it's just cookies, bitch.

It's just cookies and milk. Muffins is breakfast cake. Pancakes is. just like syrup over fucking bad cake. And to your point, pie at least is like pie. And pie probably has the same calories and sugar and all this stuff as other stuff. At least there's some goddamn fruit in there.

Yeah, at least an apple pie is so goddamn fruit. Now I'm going to admit something. When I was on vacation last July, I'm realizing why I feel so strongly about this. Vacation, all bets are off. There was a pie. You could do anything at any time on vacation. I had a slice of cherry pie for breakfast one morning.

And I was like, man, do wish I could do this every day. I literally thought I get what Mel Kuiper's do. God, if you can, he used to live in the life. You wake up every day, eat pie for breakfast. I better start to the day. Yeah, so it's like, imagine me eating a bowl of Captain Crunch, making fun of Mel Kuiper for eating pumpkin pie. Yes.

I mean, that's true. Some of the breakfasts we get from our listeners are pretty out there. Yeah, I'm like starting my day with a bang energy and a cold slice of pizza, and I'm making fun of Melkiper for pumpkin pie. He's just the head of the curve. Wow. Yeah. respect to you, Mel.

Emails about lunch and breakfast and pie. And flowers. The lunch takes. These are some strong lunch. I love lunch. Because lunch you can kind of have dinner stuff and breakfast stuff. I don't eat breakfast. So lunch is pretty essential for me or else I'm really getting hungry.

Oh my God. Craig, do you think D.K. loves the cassidia so much because he's just hungry every time he eats it? That's a huge part of it. If you were full, you wouldn't fucking eat that. Yes.

You are technically having a cassidia for breakfast because you're breaking your fast with a cassidia. Yes. but I'm not doing it the time of day that typically eat breakfast. But I think the reason that you love it so much is just that you're hungry. Part of me wonders if you eat anything, you would love it. No, this is 100% spot on. It's because I start getting hungry.

I'm like 10 o'clock, I'm starting to get hungry. 11 o'clock, I'm pretty hungry. 1130, I'm like fucking hungry. And the first thing I think of, I'm like craving it. I want a cassidia. And if I was eating breakfast, cassidia would be like, ah, I could eat a cassidia. I can have a sandwich.

I could have whatever. Yeah. I'll do like leftovers. I don't feel the need to eat a cassidia because I'm just so hungry. Did you experience withdrawals in Indianapolis five days without a casagina? I actually didn't.

I actually didn't. Do you ever think about it? Are you ever like, ah, a case of day sounds good right now? Maybe like the third straight day after you're going to St. Elmo's, I was like, I could just have a normal thing right now and I'd be fine.

It's got a porterhouse one night. And it was like 15 pounds. No, Austin ate the big, It was a 20 ounce steak. Yeah, we have to call out Austin. Austin ordered the prime rib one night. It was like a baked potato. It was as big as his plate.

It looked like the flintstones, like it brought a service. It truly did. They brought it over and then the cart tipped over. He was dying at the table. Couldn't finish his food. And then we ordered chocolate moose and cheesecake. He eats that. And then he's like, guys, I'm so sorry.

I cannot go out tonight. I'm too full. And he just went home. It was too full to hang out. It was the first time. Yeah, I've ever seen someone? No, they couldn't come out. They're full.

He's like, I just need to, like, go home and think about digesting, and that's it. Dude, that's great. You usually do this automatically, but I actually need to think and help. I need to focus on digesting for the next three hours. I texted him later. I was like, I need the big guy. I need you out here. And he's like, like the little thought bubbles where you're texting for like a full minute.

And then finally he was like, I just can't do it. We need a word for when, you know, we need a term for when you catch someone doing that. Yeah, like they just like starting it's writing and then erasing like responses and then it's just like okay I'm watching him I'm watching him the wheels turn I'm like what's he gonna say what's he going to say I just can't do it but I actually respected it because I saw what he ate and I was like I get it sometimes it is too much yeah and you have to go home anyway let's go home right now goodbye everyone